Just a nation of television-addicts.

I haven't owned a television in over 17 years, but I can't argue with the overall validity of this assessment.

I think a large part of the problem is when people accept the narrative that "shit is worse now" than before.

In many ways, things are worse now than before.

By almost any metric and not looking solely at one country or bloc of countries, the world is a better place now, we are waaaay better off.

Not so much in terms of the manipulation the citizenry is subject to. Not even close.

The rhetoric of fear, that suddenly freedoms are on the precipice of destruction, is simplistic at best and opportunist at its worst.

Thinking that saying freedoms are being taken away is any sort of “rhetorical fear porn” seems either extremely disingenuous, or hopelessly oblivious.

HRC will only perpetuate more war, more arms sales to shady countries with pro-free market policies but questionable and more often horrible civil rights records.

This seems to show that in some ways things are indeed quite a bit worse in the world today than yesteryear.

I'd rather get one year of The Donald than two terms of Hillary.

They both beyond suck, but Clinton does indeed seem far worse.

What /u/Apoplecticmiscreant said.

That's part of my whole damn point (not disagreeing with you. Just using strong language to emphasize how in accord w/what you're saying I am).

There will be no democracy.

Feels like there is no democracy and hasn't really been in a while now.

All this is a result of the citizenry expecting and appointing others to do the job that they themselves/WE ourselves should be in fact doing. We appoint others to do the work of diligence and policing, etc, and then forget about it…and then we’re surprised when we come back and find out that the positions that were initially formed to be controlled by and to serve the people are now in fact maliciously in control of the people.

Again, this is what happens when we go to sleep and take our eyes off the discipline we’re supposed to be having as a citizenry.

The institutions that now appoint people to key positions are not exactly asking for independent input.

Correct - and the problem with that is that these institutions were initially created and formulated by us as a people…FOR us as a citizenry. And now they’ve ran away from us because we stopped paying enough attention to them…and let them run away from our oversight.

We need to get that direct oversight back. Not easy, for sure, but necessary nonetheless.

They want drones that will turn their life over to authority.

And we as a people need to fight to keep that from happening - fight peacefully or through armed combat, but fighting intelligently either way.

What we can expect is more of the same, a thinly veiled oligarchy/corporate state that is beholden to Israel.

Seems to me like things are getting worse and the corruption has been getting ratcheted up a bit since 2001 at least (if not further back).

Personally, I believe we are in for even more war under Clinton.

Hell yeah. If she gets “elected”, then hell yeah.

If you haven't seen it, I suggest watching her AIPAC speech.

Haven’t seen it, and likely won’t. The evil and lying spewing out of many of these politicians might induce some sort of brain rot, so I generally stay away from actually listening too much to them directly.

That is, if you have a strong stomach or a punching bag nearby.

Exactly. I actually box (used to do it professionally) and am going to go do my daily workout here shortly…but I don’t think all the punching bags in the world would be enough to deal with having watched too much of her (or really any of these corporacrats) talk.

The only fear the elite have is the masses rising up, and with the security state intact, they know their rule is golden.

What sucks is that the masses can overcome anything the state attempts - security state or not. This is a fact…if we only organize ourselves and work intelligently against the manipulation.

But I think the tiger is very tired of being ridden, and even the lowest-information murican citizen can see that these wars never seem to end. At some point the vanity and greed of the elite will catch up to them, but I personally feel it'll be too late.

I agree with this, but it really seems that we as a people are moving way too slow. The elites’ hubris is indeed being their downfall…but our apathy and ignorance (and our own hubris for that matter), is kind of being our downfall as well. :/

Good points all around.

If our reporters reported, we would have overthrown this farce a long while ago.

Well, yes. Correct. However, TPTB made an example of Michael Hastings, so I don’t super fault them for not reporting. Ultimately, we as a people can’t rely on the reporters - on the forth state. We have to rely on each other. We can’t depend on anyone but ourselves.

But I don't see how we can communicate in a way that can't be easily subverted by those in power.

I say we can do this in the same way that those in power do it. By being intelligent, by being diligent, by being focused, by combining our efforts and forces. By being organized. TPTB didn’t just bumble about and got where they are by accident. They got there (to an extent anyway) through work and discipline. We the people can (and should) exercise the same level of organization and discipline.

I've read that when Egypt was in chaos, they simply cut all communications. Cell phones didn't work, internet was impossible to find... You can be certain all of these things have been studied and many layers of contingency plans have been well thought out. So how do people battle that?

That’s a very valid question, but I think what I said above speaks to the level of concerted cooperation that we as a population can indeed have. The idea that “all” cell phones and internet services in Egypt were taken out is simply not true. It can’t be true by virtue of the fact that the forces in power need to communicate as well, so it’s not like they cut off their own cell phone and internet communication devices. If there’s are still on, then independent hacks can figure out a way to keep the cells and internet connection of the people going.

It'll take an enormous public freak out to awaken citizens

I don’t think so because 911 happened and that didn’t wake up as many as it should have. It’s woken up a lot of us for sure, but I think that a “freak out” isn’t the only thing necessary or that can do it. I think an awakening can happen without any sort of mass chaos freak out moment. I think an awakening is already happening. I just think that it needs a further push to keep going and keep doing more still.

to jolt low information people out of their stupor.

I think the constant or at least consistent trickle of OPs like this very one here slowly begin to wake up more and more people - bit by bit, one by one - and over time (hopefully soon), more and more people are waking up without having to have had some “mass freak out” event.

Heck, all these false flags and hoaxes that have been taken place as of the past few short years (Sandy Hook, Colorado, Newton, etc) I don’t think are having the same level of mass effect that TPTB wanted them to have. That isn’t a horrible sign. At all.

It'll take movements that even the media can't cover up.

Correct and agreed…so we need to do that/make that happen. And by “we” I don’t necessarily just mean you or me individually, of course. I mean “we” as in the masses/the people.

I've been waiting to see it since around 2008, and feel we may never see it.

Occupy Wall Street was one. March Against Monsanto was another. I marched and demonstrated in both of them. The movements need to be even bigger still than those because those got quickly co-opted…but they were a start and I think pointed in the right direction.

We may all be chipped with a cashless society before long, and then their power will be complete.

Sheeit. I’m not getting chipped. I mean TPTB might be able to find some sort of covert way to put it in our food or drink and it gets done that way, but I absolutely 100% guarantee you that I will fight and kill and possibly (likely) die way before anybody gets anywhere near chipping me.

I think we all need to have this attitude (and yet more still) is what I’m saying.

I do now believe with every fiber of my being that my fellow americans simply aren't up to the task.

Yes. I understand this sentiment. However, my thinking is that people simply shouldn’t talk any shit about how bad things are in this country/world if they’re not up to the task of at least attempting or even thinking about attempting to actually do something about making it better.

I think it's being generous to say that 10% of us know what's really happening.

I don’t know that I would disagree with you there…but you know what I think? I think that we need to then find those 10% of us that think this way, and that number then needs to come together and make an intelligent effort to put forward information that the rest of the world will see and be moved and influenced by themselves.

Easier said than done, I know - and I also know that even within that 10% of us that know things are fucked, there is even a large amount of disagreement about how exactly it’s fucked and what exactly we need to be doing to make things better, so that makes the situation all the more complicated still - but it seems we have to at least make an effort to do something, because we seem to be going to hell in a hand basket pretty directly, and we need to be acting to do something about it to overcome these ignorance-and-laziness-bourn obstacles we’re faced with.

It's coming though, and stupid americans will allow it sooner or later.

Jesus I wish I had a decent argument against this comment, but I can’t say that I do. Fucking “stupid americans” is right, unfortunately.

I really enjoy talking with you, and hit the friend button which is something I rarely do. Have a good day and keep fighting the good fight.

Thank you, brother. Namaste, and see you around. :)

Nope. Not gonna do it. I get it. She's a Zionist-owned shill. 100%. I know that's the case. I don't need to get further validation than I already have that people like her are "kept". I know she is.

That's part of why I made this very OP.

This, I feel, is the absolute best comment in this entire OP by far up to this point. Wish I could upvote it more than once and that it was at the very top because I feel everyone should read what you posted here.

Just posted this highlighted comment. Very appropriate here as well.

While it seems to me that /u/All_By_Me_Whatsy might be jumping the gun a bit, I really think people shouldn't give so much power to the idea that the masses have absolutely no power and can do absolutely nothing against whatever the state does. This is part of the reason why the state tries and gets away with so much chicanery in the first place - because people say things like "You've only got only 4 months to come to terms with the queens eventual coronation." as if we have no choice in the matter and we're powerless to do anything about it so we better just accept whatever the state decides to do and that's it.

Heck, that's a big part of the reason for my making this OP in the first place. Do you like the idea of the United States being a monarchy or some sort of autocratic state? Is that what you want? Is that what would make you feel good as an American? (assuming you are an American...you might not be/I don't know) If you are an American, then shouldn't you be, instead, absolutely disgusted with the idea of the ideals that the country was supposed to stand for being completely turned around and corrupted the way they have been? Shouldn't you be feeling like what's happening is a complete anathema to what should be the case? and if you do feel that, then shouldn't you kind of not be blithely joking or quipping about it with witty "queens coronation" comments like you did?

She's not the fucking queen nor should she ever be looked upon as such - even in an attempt at witty joking - and to give that kind of thinking power seems to breed a sort of accepted apathy in others that spreads like a disease, like a viral infection, and gets people around to go "Yeah. She'll be president. Meh. Pass the chips. What's on tv?"

I understand that TPTB have a lot of power, and the idea that the "selection took place years ago" is likely A) correct and B) manifesting itself now. However, I think that the people have even more power than TPTB, and if we as a population just grow a pair and decide to come together and not take the manipulative shit of the state (with the conviction and the unwillingness to give up that this frog has, for example), I know TPTB would go "O_o, wo." and back off. They might back off only to regroup and come back again stronger in a few more generations after the descendents of the original fighters have long forgotten what their ancestors fought so hard for, but right now it is we who are the "descendents or the original fighters who have long forgotten what their ancestors fought so hard for", and we have had an apathy and an ignorance and a sloth bred and indoctrinated into us that is causing us to go "Hillary'll be president cuz she'll be selected, not elected. Hurr durr hurr. Oh well. Pass the chips. What's on tv?" and we're not realizing just how horribly this speaks about how far we've descended into our subservience and apathy...and how badly we need to break out of that.

We need to NOT RESIGN ourselves to the horrible way things are just because "it's just the way things are/have been". It doesn't have to be "the way things are".

It could be better and we could make things better if we didn't just accept the shit that happens as "just the way things are".

I can't help feeling hopeless at this point, hopeless that anything will change in our lifetime for the better.

Yeah. I understand that, and I feel similar…but no sooner do I feel that, than I also feel like the God damn frog, God dammit. I’m not pretending to be any sort of Christopher Dorner “one man army” type, but I certainly won’t just lay down and willingly spread my cheeks for The Man to keep going in and doing his worst either.

I at the very least make sure and work hard to make sure and carry myself with a good semblance of respectability - and even if the whole world is going to shit around me and everyone is agreeing that “red is blue and up is down”, I will still stand - alone if need be - and still say “No. It’s not that way. It’s not what you’re saying. Things aren’t like that. Red is red, up is up, and down is down. Sorry if that makes you feel bad or angry because you’ve been taught all your life the opposite of what I’m saying, but I’m still saying it regardless.”

Yeah. It often doesn’t make you very popular, and you end up not really having many friends…but, well…I personally don’t want friends if they’re not real, honest, focused people willing to stand up and look at the world in an intelligent, focused manner.

I think our future is very dark at this moment.

I don’t disagree, but I also think that my own personal focus and determination to still do the right thing within these shit circumstances is still pretty darn forthright and strong - and I’m willing to talk to anyone about what I feel is decent regardless of whether the entire country/world is going to hell in a hand basket or not.

It is my hope that there are millions of people such as yourself just about to emerge and bring about change, but it's a hope that feels naive at this point.

I think that’s a good hope, and I hope the same thing, but what I tend to do is simply work toward being the change I wish to see in the world and in others. When I do that, I realize that that hope that I have actually isn’t really “naive” per se. It might not be an entirely realistic hope considering how difficult this planet seems, but I want to be able to say that at the end of my days, I can die knowing that I held to my convictions even if it wasn’t convenient or easy or popular. I want to say that those convictions were ultimately about trying to be a good person for myself and others, but also about not being afraid to say what I really feel even if it was an unpopular point of view. I want to be able to say that I at least TRIED to do my best, and be a critical thinker regardless of the opposition that might have been around.

Look at what this country has allowed so far: torture, citizens united, indefinite detention, censorship, police state, overt surveillance, endless wars, an out of control MIC, a stolen election in 2000, SCOTUS corruption, low approval rating for years on end with congress, propaganda used on our own citizens, etc, etc, etc...

Yeah, man. So much corruption and darkness. For real. I work hard to be as little a part of it as possible.

Thank you for the pep talk though. Your words are sorely needed around here.

Namaste,

Explain that please.

Hmmm...Clinton or Trump? Let's see...

If that's what you think, then it really is ultimately you that's pretty sad.

But okay. Meh.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4rh6t9/okay_so_whats_going_to_happen_if_hillary_clinton/d52hnxh

Correct. It was a simple statement of fact is all.

You don't understand the rule.

Ha! Again! lol. Jesus. This idiot just doesn't know when to stfu and quit. Oh well. At least your "basement-dwelling troll" hand is strong. smh