How dare you persecute these innocent childfuckers! You're just a pedophobe! Love wins!

Love is ineffable.

Children are in-"F"-able!

Idk to laugh or cry

An incredibly disturbing aspect of power in our current world. This is important work. Thank you.

Also worth pointing out:

• Lifting the Veil: An Investigative History of the United States Pathocracy (pdf)

• The Pedophocracy by David McGowan.

• Beyond the Dutroux Affair- The reality of protected child abuse and snuff networks

• The Finders Cult: A Treasury Department report (pdf)

• The Fascinating Case of the 'Finders' Cult

No problem.

MFW I started realizing all this was true...

If anyone's interested in how serial killers tie into all this, I highly recommend y'all read Dave Mcgowan's book "Programmed To Kill- the politics of serial murder". https://fringechan.org/library/src/1456411474807-1.pdf

The first 6 chapters brilliantly expose and tie together all of these stories. I'll admit it's a disturbing read though.

No problem, man! I'm guessing you're using the archive at Futile Work?

I went to Dave's old page to politely ask his daughter (who is said to disagree with her fathers work) why she removed his old material, but she didn't answer or approve my comment.

She said the old site had an outdated layout and it detracted from his message, but it's hard for it to detract from a message that largely no longer exists. I tried to broach that concept to her respectfully, but to no avail.

I'm having trouble finding "operation mind control", unless it's in one of his newletters. I'd like to read it as well. Do you have a link to it?

Notice also that his old site is specifically excluded from archive.org... regardless I archived the Futile Work page.

Cheers

sticky please

You should cross post this to /r/thepedofile

Hmm wasn't ancient Carthage into this kind of stuff too? also the banking? I wonder if Carthage secretly survived to this day.

History repeats. Check out Spengler, the I ching and Timewave Zero for further reference.

I know the second two, reading about Spengler now. Very interesting.

I don't mind the usual anti-Masonic propaganda that you post, but the CHIP program is incredibly important for combatting child abduction and otherwise lost children. It's safe, privacy-oriented and a wonderful tool for parents. Please don't discourage parents from taking part in this (admittedly terribly named) program.

We know who you are tyler zoro. I wish you'd read morals and dogma already

We had that conversation. I have. When we talked about it, I asked you if you had really read it, or if you'd just glanced at the parts that Internet anti-Masonic conspiracy fans like to quote. You never answered...

Btw I've asked people about the program and they are terrified.

Well, they're welcome to be terrified of napkins and root beer floats too, if they like, but as long as they're not spreading misinformation that literally puts children in more danger (by scaring parents away from getting data that will help an abducted or lost child be found), then I have no reason to be concerned.

You can say what you want, call me a schizo

I believe I've never said this, and if that's the kind of conversation you want to have, then I don't think I have an interest...

it's your job to come here and battle me

Side point: it's not only not "my job" but I'm certain that if I revealed to my Grand Lodge that these posts were from me, I'd be told in no uncertain terms to cut it out. Their view is very much that interacting with the conspiracy theorist / anti-Masonic community is just inviting more trolling, but I have too much optimism in human nature. Not yours, of course, you made up your mind a long time ago, but I think any rational human being that reads these threads will come to the truth on their own.

Hi Tyler,

of course I come to the truth on my own, who doesn't. I mean, there are those people who don't take responsability, and refer truth to church or other power institutions. As a 'tyler' that would be you, as goes the accusation.

You must of course understand that the subject of secret sociëties is very sensitive in this sub. Pizzagate requires a real investigation, but that hasn't happened yet. Until it requires transparancy and frankness. Two values you should (re)consider.

So sorry your charity is badmouthed. But nobody and nothing is left unscutinized. Nothing is fact at first glance, of course, so if you or anyone is ever harassed or doxxed, you reserve to kick the deserving fanatic 'truther' of the 'net. That what the mods are for.

See, we like the truth. We try and find out and protect the truth. Because in a network, you don't do it, somebody will do it happily.

You talk about your oath to secrecy to your Elders, and indeed, it is very nice of you to break it. This oath, of course, is not the same as it used be, I get that. It used to be of that a 'tyler' was prisoned or killed. The values of Brotherhood and privacy are now introduced into Enlightened society, so your church's secrecy serve as a warning, rather than literal fact. You, as a follower are not literally meant to revenge the killing of the churchfather (sorry forgot his name), you're meant to honor his memory and his values. People forget, but freemasonry was majorly involved in the Age of Enlightenment, even though everyone agrees that Enlightenment was the greatest thing!

All these values have to be balanced out. In an open society, this is possible. That means that we trust in that we tell each other when something is wrong. Does your church, tyler? Does it correct itself on pain of revolution? Does it confront its own hypocrisy painstakinly?

See, we like the truth.

It's interesting that you assume I'm not a conspiracy theorist. I wrote my first conspiracy-related paper on the findings of the Warren Commission while still in high school. I've been involved with online conspiracy groups since the days of Usenet. The World Wide Web didn't even exist yet.

It's interesting how people assume...

You talk about your oath to secrecy to your Elders

Speaking of assumption...

There are no "elders". I think you're thinking of Mormonism. Freemasonry only has a structure of local authority, called a Grand Lodge. Beyond that, there's no authority. Grand Lodges interoperate via their mutual recognition of each other's jurisdiction, but that's it. This is one of the reasons that Masonic conspiracy theory generally falls apart as soon as you look at it with a critical eye.

it is very nice of you to break it. This oath, of course, is not the same as it used be, I get that.

Nope. I haven't broken anything, and you're right that in the US, the historical obligations have different wordings, and I've read them. I haven't violated anything in either the modern or ancient obligations. To do that, I would have to discuss in specific detail, the contents of the degrees, and I don't do that.

I will answer any reasonable question about Freemasonry as long as it's not about the content of the initiation, and even then, I'll answer quite a lot, but I will always tell you that I won't go there. I won't lie or misdirect. I abhor such disregard for the truth.

Does your church, tyler?

I'm not a member of a church, so I can't answer that.

Does it confront its own hypocrisy painstakinly?

If you're actually asking about Freemasonry, then sometimes yes and sometimes no. We're human beings, and human beings have failings. Some Masons like Oscar Wilde, Samuel Clemens and Benjamin Franklin, I think really did question their own actions and those of the people around them, but I've met few modern Masons that I would compare to those three! I would say, however, that the Fraternity tends to correct such failings of its own accord, over time. The structure of the Fraternity allows a Lodge or even a whole Grand Lodge to lose its way, and it will eventually lose the respect, and more importantly, the recognition of its jurisdiction, by its peers.

Hi Tyler, I've taken some time to think/.

"as soon as you look at it with a critical eye." Well, if this operation of Lodges becomes somehow criminal, then it's a conspiracy, instead of a just another club. I don't like you being defensive. I concede ignorance about Freemasonry in America, though I want to tell you something about myself. Freemasonry comes from a tradition that invented the first 'safe spaces', think the salons in Paris, where freedom of speech, association etc. expanded beyond the totalitariat. Radical conclusions were made and some blood was spilled, but since then it's created a lot of progress and prosperity. Humanism was allowed to become a dominant Western culture, because of the freedom created by the most enlightened men. These men are still being born: heroes of the human spirit. They still organize. They still get relentlessly critized, and not just their ideas, but their behavior is scrutinized to an absurd point. And that's good! Some people's power needs to be activelly normalized, because power corrupts. The alternative is not talking about it, until people go crazy and make a guillotine.

Thanks for responding. I'll answer in-depth, but if you just want a TL;DR it's this, "Freemasonry isn't a monolith, and should be judged by its various individual Grand Lodges' actions, not what we imagine might be or become."

Well, if this operation of Lodges becomes somehow criminal, then it's a conspiracy

Yep! And that has happened in the past at least once that I know of. (the infamous P2 Lodge in Italy in the 1970s that was taken over by local political and criminal interests). That Lodge was shut down hard, and many of its members expelled, but...

Let's pose a hypothetical. Let's say that they were not shut down and their criminal behavior never came to light. Let's say that P2 grew, attracted more n'er-do-wells in other Lodges throughout Italy, and eventually gained a majority of votes in their Grand Lodge and elected a Grand Master that re-oriented the entire Grand Lodge around less savory principles.

This never happened, but let's imagine that it did. How does it spread to, say, the Grand Lodge in Spain?

There's no authority that Italy can hold over Spain, and there's no authority over both of them for Italy to take over. The whole process has to start from scratch, which gives it a far greater opportunity for exposure of their actions.

In fact, this scenario is not so far-fetched. The Grand Orient of France, while not criminal, did abandon many of the principles of Freemasonry and became intensely involved with the French Government. Most Grand Lodges around the world eventually dropped recognition for the Grand Orient and today they continue to be considered non-Masonic by the majority of the Masonic world.

That's the strength of Freemasonry: there's no central authority, so no one authority that tries to change the system can do more than argue its case to everyone else.

I don't like you being defensive.

These are very old arguments you're bringing up, and they've been debunked over and over and over again, starting as early as the 18th century! If I seem "defensive", it's probably just the fact that this is all stuff I've had to type many times before, not that I'm dismissing you or your own ideas.

They still get relentlessly critized, and not just their ideas, but their behavior is scrutinized to an absurd point. And that's good! Some people's power needs to be activelly normalized, because power corrupts.

The last part is true, but as Freemasonry has essentially zero power, I don't see the concern. Also, there's a tendency to go overboard with the "champions of the human spirit must be scrutinized" idea that leads to an ugly phenomenon: anyone who stands up and says, "I want to do good," is demonized for it, while those who remain silent and simple commit evil acts without trying to cover for it are ignored.

This was evident in the early days of Google. They claimed that their motto was "do no evil," and so they were the constant target of conspiracy theories. Meanwhile, their competition, Yahoo!, were actively assisting China in building the Great Firewall, rolling over without any resistance to domestic spying in the US, and pushing the kinds of predatory advertising that Google successfully kept off of their search pages.

Was Google the great champion of good? Probably not, but should we have blinded ourselves to all other transgressions because Google claimed to want to not be evil? Almost certainly not.

O look a Tyler ...

Thanks for responding. I'll answer in-depth, but if you just want a TL;DR it's this, "Freemasonry isn't a monolith, and should be judged by its various individual Grand Lodges' actions, not what we imagine might be or become."

Well, if this operation of Lodges becomes somehow criminal, then it's a conspiracy

Yep! And that has happened in the past at least once that I know of. (the infamous P2 Lodge in Italy in the 1970s that was taken over by local political and criminal interests). That Lodge was shut down hard, and many of its members expelled, but...

Let's pose a hypothetical. Let's say that they were not shut down and their criminal behavior never came to light. Let's say that P2 grew, attracted more n'er-do-wells in other Lodges throughout Italy, and eventually gained a majority of votes in their Grand Lodge and elected a Grand Master that re-oriented the entire Grand Lodge around less savory principles.

This never happened, but let's imagine that it did. How does it spread to, say, the Grand Lodge in Spain?

There's no authority that Italy can hold over Spain, and there's no authority over both of them for Italy to take over. The whole process has to start from scratch, which gives it a far greater opportunity for exposure of their actions.

In fact, this scenario is not so far-fetched. The Grand Orient of France, while not criminal, did abandon many of the principles of Freemasonry and became intensely involved with the French Government. Most Grand Lodges around the world eventually dropped recognition for the Grand Orient and today they continue to be considered non-Masonic by the majority of the Masonic world.

That's the strength of Freemasonry: there's no central authority, so no one authority that tries to change the system can do more than argue its case to everyone else.

I don't like you being defensive.

These are very old arguments you're bringing up, and they've been debunked over and over and over again, starting as early as the 18th century! If I seem "defensive", it's probably just the fact that this is all stuff I've had to type many times before, not that I'm dismissing you or your own ideas.

They still get relentlessly critized, and not just their ideas, but their behavior is scrutinized to an absurd point. And that's good! Some people's power needs to be activelly normalized, because power corrupts.

The last part is true, but as Freemasonry has essentially zero power, I don't see the concern. Also, there's a tendency to go overboard with the "champions of the human spirit must be scrutinized" idea that leads to an ugly phenomenon: anyone who stands up and says, "I want to do good," is demonized for it, while those who remain silent and simple commit evil acts without trying to cover for it are ignored.

This was evident in the early days of Google. They claimed that their motto was "do no evil," and so they were the constant target of conspiracy theories. Meanwhile, their competition, Yahoo!, were actively assisting China in building the Great Firewall, rolling over without any resistance to domestic spying in the US, and pushing the kinds of predatory advertising that Google successfully kept off of their search pages.

Was Google the great champion of good? Probably not, but should we have blinded ourselves to all other transgressions because Google claimed to want to not be evil? Almost certainly not.