What we must do is stated quite clearly in our Declaration of Independence: " But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

The absolute first thing we need to be able to do is work together.

vapid wedge issues are pushed to create divisiveness.

For example black lives matter movement. And political parties This year are hugely divided... It would be tough. Plus not only that, but we also have people who are too proud about nationalism that they still trust in our gov. So that's a big three way split already. Plus many many many others..

In the words of Krizz Kaliko (taken out of lyrical context, but still deep and true) : Try to make n****s and Aryan Brothas Run up on Crips n' Bloods, Tell em they both wearin' the wrong colors.

Again, out of context but the lines apply here. We need to forget our differences and understand we are all under the same oppression. We need to forget these fallacious false dilemmas put in our paths and unite under one idea: freedom.

THE MEDIA is the single most divisive element in American society today. He who owns and directs THE MEDIA is the true enemy of the American people.

And Im not talking about "das juden", thats another red herring. These owners are individuals, they have names. Let's get specific and hang em high. Because if we don't send a clear message that America won't stand for this, it will continue to get worse.

These motherfuckers only speak one language, so let's show them how to converse.

the private for profit owners, yes owners, of the federal reserve bank are the heart of all evil.

and they own the media.

so they Trump the media evil.

Ty

we're all in this together

This gets me pumped...in a Braveheart sort of way.

No protesting. I swear protesting is just a way to burn off all poor opposition. The rich can wait out for years but the poor starve. I don't know why but to me it just seems like way to "run us around the yard" until we tucker our selves out.

I planned a career in journalism. In college, they make it sound so noble. I had my first job for less than a month and wanted to puke. All that time and effort when they could have saved me 4 years and damn near 100k if they had just said, "write fluff and don't piss off your conservative readers and cops."

Make your own media platform, fuck the establishment. Use your knowledge for good.

And "commit suicide" before age 50?

There are thousands of independent media outlets now. The only ones getting in trouble are the ones on the front line. A smart journalist would recognize that as the crux of the matter and work together with other journalists to move those goalposts back.

Isn't it der juden?

Probably. Thanks for the correction.

Those people own the police, military, federal law enforcement agencies, the judges, the politicians, the NSA agents that are monitoring this sub right now, and the CIA death squads currently en route to "suicide" you as I type.

What the fuck do you think we can do.

I only know that I won't live in fear, on my knees, waiting to die. No one is coming to suicide me.

It's fucking Rupert Murdoch; controlling the mainstream media throughout the US, the UK and Aus. It's not exactly news. ^{Pun not intended}

individuals have names true but when they act as one, there is another force at work

I work in the business world. People with like interests frequently work together on co-mutual plans for profit.

not just for profit. do they all pimp hillary for profit? do they all protect israel for profit? etc etc

Do those things have the potential to be profitable? Yes, yes they do.

I'm glad you grasp my point.

it seems you fail to grasp mine, or just refuse to

We should hijack comcast. The whole fucking thing.

Die Juden actually own a huge chunk of the wealth and power, especially considering they're 2% of america's population.

That doesn't mean all Jews are responsible. The Zionist agenda is responsible. Plenty of non-Jews that claim to be Zionists. We have to attack the ideology. If we attack an ethnic group in error, (again) we lose.

Jews were like this before Zionism. It's what they do.

No, its what people born into a network of educated and successful peers do, which is what a large portion of the Jewish community is, it just happens to be exceptionally resilient and integrated, and arguably not without reason considering their historical persecution. WASP's do the exact same thing "Zionists" do under the guise of Ivy League Networking and Capitalism. The European nobility has done it for centuries.

To single out the Jews as the malicious exception to some otherwise egalitarian meritocratic New World Order is certainly a prejudiced standpoint that one deliberately cultivates by not looking at other networks who do the same thing.

Those who have power consolidate it among their peers in order to protect it. It doesn't matter which Abrahamic tradition, political dynasty, or royal family they happen to be a part of.

You're thinking in terms of when they already have the power. Think further back.

Wait till you realize that a lot of modern *-isms are deliberately caused by the elite to thrown the masses into confusion.

Bacon's Rebellion scared the crap out of the elites so hard that within a decade or so the first Jim Crow laws are drawn up to create an artificial separation between blacks and whites that has existed to this day.

It really terrifies the power-hungry when the populace realizes they've been fooled.

So we need another Bacon's rebellion, only with everyone.

Edit: it included everyone. I'm an idiot.

and we need it before they perfect their autonomous soldiers tanks and fighterjets

once that happens we fuckedddd

Yeah, Terminator Independence Day doesn't sound like a good day to be a regular human.

Sounds like an interesting movie, though.

This is a very important point. They have the tech now to control us. They can track almost any individual thru their phone. They will be able to track our cars, and probably disable them. If we go to electronic money, they will have the ability to turn off your funds. We will soon be totally enslaved.

Which is also why other methods of peer to peer communications need to be explored & utilized, ie MicroSD cards being transported by Carrier Pigeons etc.

Should groups ever need to coordinate their efforts, normal lines of communication will almost certainly be disrupted.

So many details that need to be looked at, we should be doing it right now.

Drones can kill you through a window already.

You're already fucked. So much idealists speaking and upvoting. If for some miraclous reason your people could unite enough to make a change, it would give other super powers a lot of space when your go,v is in chaos. I don't think the people in charge are willing to get there.

There is no winning, the meanest, most ruthless will always scramble to the top. Displace or dismantle all the bad guys you want, their positions will be filled by the meanest, most ruthless movie on hand.

There is no winning for humanity. If you do topple the top guys, let's hope the assholes who replace them are as kind. Though if you kill the top assholes, then their replacements could be 2nd-rate, less competent assholes.

Maybe it's best to let nature handle it: the strong trods over the weak, and never will it be any other way.

Given up. Skynet post.

We're already fucked. George Carlin has a routine from the late 80s about how civilians can't have flamethrowers but the army can.

As I posted above, we can never agree on what we are fighting for. What I want the world to be is a lot different from the right wing view of how it should be.

It's all right there in the constitution.

The ground work has already been laid. Fight for freedom. The freedom the constitution ensures.

After the inalienable rights it's semantics anyway.

I don't think that matters at the moment. Whether it's a left wing view or a right wing view I think it's obvious that whatever version of the world you want it's going to be impossible to implement with the status quo. I think we need to clean house and then we can squabble over what's going to replace it.

I hear what you're saying, but there's like a 200 year difference there. Bacon's rebellion happened before there even was a US and Jim Crowe laws don't come into play until reconstruction.

Jim Crow maybe.

But, whites and blacks had relative equality in Virginia where the only slaves where any-race "indentured servants". Bacon's rebellion led Virginia elites to legally formalize different status for blacks, leading to the state's adoption of formal chattal slavery and inaugurating the concept of different status for different races.

The Virginia Slave codes were created to create the divisiveness shortly after the rebellion. Slave Codes would go on to become Jim Crow laws.

ahh. messy details.

This is amusing. From the "Use of Devil's Breath" section of that wikipedia page:

It is reported by Robert Beverley, in his 1705 book on the history of Virginia, that British soldiers were tricked into eating food laced with Devil’s Breath (scopolamine) from the Datura plant and were unable to fight instead spending "several days making monkey faces and generally acting like lunatics." The soldiers recovered 11 days later.

This is what chemical war should be. Instead of nerve gas and such.

You think that instead of nerve gas we should weaponize hallucinogens and launch them at armed enemies? I don't know if I love it or hate it.

If you were tripping balls and fully armed, would you want to remain armed?

No, not at all, but I can imagine with all the go pills floating around battlefoelds nowadays they might. Amphetamine plus tripping is a totally different experience in a lot of ways.

For sure, I have experienced it firsthand. ;)

Same, and I can see why one might go "die motherfucker die" to the beat of their 3 round burst in that situation

After watching the first Ghostbusters, being a teenager in the '90s, and thinking your scenario through thoroughly, the answer is Yes. I would keep my sidearm. There are many like it, but this one is mine, etcetera. I don't want to be surrounded by polar cops shouting "TAPE IT NOW" and all I have is a DSLR streaming to an SDHC card.

mfw

Kind of a win-win for the guys launching it right? Either the enemies "wake up" or blow up (each other in a molten reality hellscape).

Uhh go read some datura trip reports on Erowid. It's not tripping balls, it's being completely removed from reality. If you want to experience a milder, slightly safer version, take 200-300mg of Benadryl and try to stay awake...

You can't give hugs with nuclear arms.

What is this black stick thing? Is this my skin? Ooh, pretty lights.

Best thing ever until it's the worst hell ever...

Oh I know. Luckily after the fact it's literally only as bad as your worst nightmares.

US military has a weaponized form of LSD that lasts for a week of nothing but nightmare trips.

They have killing and fucking with people down to a science by now.

Have you read Datura trip reports on Erowid? It sounds like its own special kind of hell. I'm not saying nerve gas is better, but it wouldn't be fun for sure.

Sorry, but what does Bacons Rebellion have to do with Jim Crow laws? I'm not quite understanding the connection.

it was notable for the multicultural aspect. you wouldn't see blacks and whites working so close together as equals in the coming decades, or centuries for that matter. some believe it was to make future uprisings more difficult.

There are leaked letters from the time that clearly show that the impetus of these laws was to prevent the racial unity that gave the rebellion its wide base.

TIL.

Here's a little more about it on PBS.org :

Before Bacon's Rebellion we certainly have distinctions made between blacks and whites, and we certainly have attitudes on the part of whites and presumably on the part of blacks where they differentiate themselves and where they probably think each is superior to the other.

Nonetheless, we see them behaving pretty much the same way. Some numbers of people of African descent have moved into the land owning class, are sometimes owning the servants, are connected with churches, are cognizant of the legal system and so on.

And of course substantial numbers of people of European descent are caught in a system of coerced labor called indentured servitude. And indentured servants, whether they are black or white, are pretty much treated the same way as slaves. Very badly.

Bacon's Rebellion changes that, and what seems to be crucial in changing that is the consolidation after Bacon's Rebellion of a planter class. The planters had not been able to control this rowdy labor force of servants and slaves. But soon after Bacon's Rebellion they increasingly distinguish between people of African descent and people of European descent. They enact laws which say that people of African descent are hereditary slaves. And they increasingly give some power to white independent white farmers and land holders.

I'm still trying to dig up the letters, it's been ages since I posted about them. Not having much luck tho. Will keep trying.

oh i never doubted racial segregation was created as a means of suppression. find people who don't believe so and give them the evidence. it's important now more than ever that they know.

It was more of 'give them a reason to think of each other as different, and they'll never work together again'.

Racism used to pretty much be an elite only thing because poor whites working next to poor blacks didn't see a 'stranger other', but a 'common laborer together'.

Do you have a source?

Leaked letters then. Leaked emails now. Power hungry despots, never change.

Sure they do, now instead of just setting peasants on fire for fun, they force us to burn ourselves for the right to exist on their planet.

Horrible example though. A bunch of uneducated brutes wanted to kill more native Americans and their governor wouldn't allow it so they had an uprising.

Wow, way to gloss over every single important detail in the single greatest public expression of elite manipulation that the history of our nation has yet seen.

You could get a sweet job at Gawker with those talents.

Oh, wait, nvm.

[removed]

Again you keep glossing over the actual event in favor of a soundbite newsclip.

Thank you for proving to me how little you actually have to contribute to this discussion.

+blocked

Lol, says the retard who resorted to insults when his "contribution" was challenged.

Karmas a bitch, if you can't handle being treated the way you treat others, then learn some respect.

+blocked is like a child plugging his ears and saying 'I can't ear you, lalalala'

Just block the person and move on like an adult, don't try to turn it into some weird school yard taunt.

Also Coxey's army

Interesting how as the 99% join forces, the "differences" among us are always discussed and embellished. And now, we have 2 of the most divisive presidential candidates to choose from. Sounds familiar.

I have witnessed the truth that a poor white man and a poor black woman have more in common than a poor white woman and the elite.

Our differences are certainly exaggerated, I just wish more people realized that.

Wow! They used the drug Devil's Breath?!? Amazing. Not that I've read much about it, other than it's effects, but I'm really shocked. I was under the impression that even though I knew it was from a plant, I thought it was a new thing.

For a lot of people though it's tough. Why? Because that's how they lived their whole life. Shit, I'm not into anhthing bad I'm just lazy Af and I'm trying to change my old ways and it's pretty tough.

It's just a way of life for people to just nod and agree with whatever is thrown at them. The thing that I most definitely think why we don't just "up and revolt" is that we're scared. Not of what will happen during...but what will happen afterwards...

The fear is what keeps the whole machine running. They keep us scared of the terrorists by controlling the news. Then we ignore the war because the tv said it was for our safety. Also, most Americans lives havent been negatively affected yet, so their comfort remains. Only once the middle class is fully inconvenienced will they realize a change is needed.

Shouldn't that be the best part? The unknown isn't scary, it's just unknown. We either live and think "what if?" forever, or we stand up and change things to make a better world for our children and their children.

Ah, the kanye west method

If people really just "nod and agree with whatever is thrown at them", then totalitarian governments would be a godsend to humans.

You are correct. That's why the government has the media keep the races divided. If everyone realizes that neither side really has any problems or differences worth fighting over, the shit would get real fast for these corrupt politicians. It would be the beginning of the end for them.

Kali baby - Ah uh

"If all the gangs in the world unified, we'd stand a chance against the military tonight" - Ab Soul

Oh man I didn't even think about Soul, upvote for keeping it real, stranger.

But if the pirus (bloods) and the crips all got along

They'd probably gun me down by the end of this song.

Not exactly what would happen but it's what I think of when we try to get everyone to agree. Differing views are part of society, and when they come together out of necessity, more often then not a third party gets hurt. Yes! Something in the government needs to change, but how we build a government that views all beliefs equally? That is the real challenge that is at the core of our issues. Too many differing opinions trying to run one nation.

Much respect for the Kendrick reference, Commander! 420 blaze it and praise it.

And that should be the challenge our generation strives to solve, how to place every member of society on an equal platform.

STRANGE

Music.

Sick Kaliko reference. Straaaaange

Music!

KC?

Love Kali, but I don't recognize the bar. What song?

Like I Died - with Mike Smith and Tech N9ne from Tech's Lost scrolls album. It might be the remix, but don't quote me on that haha I found the song on spotify about a year ago. Still one of my favorites.

Like I Died - with Mike Smith and Tech N9ne from Tech's Lost scrolls album. It might be the remix, but don't quote me on that haha I found the song on spotify about a year ago. Still one of my favorites.

~ /u/LittleDidUNo

Asshat. You get no upvote

I think the most effective method used to stop us from rising up is keeping our minimum wage a 'slave wage'. Many of us can't take any time off of work to even begin starting such a revolution as we barely have enough money to eat, let alone travel.

As far as BLM goes, personally, I believe it to be a very legitimate movement against police violence towards minorities, but it's used as a wedge issue, exactly like you describe, by the media. Maybe working with an established movement like this, convincing the leaders that police violence against the poor is a bigger issue, since 95% of Police Killings in 2015 Occurred in Neighborhoods With Incomes Under $100,000, stemming from the oligarchy, and all banding together with one focused cause: to seize the means of production from these corporations and pry them out of the public sector.

These things may seem unrelated, but police violence comes from police militarization and hostile policy like the War on Drugs, both of which make corporations (Lockheed Martin and big pharma respectively, in these examples) tons of money. If we're able to get private interests out of the government (campaign donations, for example), we can get our elections back, and our representatives will actually represent us, who will then be able to make regulatory laws stronger. It's these regulatory bodies that will be tough to maintain, but if we enacted laws that stop employees or ex-employees of corporations from serving on them, make all regulators' finances completely public, investigate any fishy influxes of money, and make bribery a crime punishable by nothing less than life in prison, for both the giver and receiver, maybe we could get our country back. For a little while, at least.

That's my current, totally unprofessional, opinion. Though I'm more than open to suggestions.

I dont believe the BLM movement is legitimate at all. Especially cause of Sorros donations. I think its funded chaos. The police violence issue is something thats making me think.

Why? The data actually doesnt actually prove police are more violent. It doesnt show how many people are in gangs, armed robberies, drive-by shootings, etc that occure in those areas. People making over 100000 are (imho) probably not engaged in that activity as far as I know. I get it, I wouldnt go against the violent gang types without a big upper hand. So im not impressed with the so called data. But I live in a shithole so maybe Im closer to the reality, or my own thoughts about it.

Has anyone actually wondered WHO wants police outcast, demonized, or untrusted? Maybe its a move for a FED police force or something. I dont think its joe blow public making the waves against the cops. I think they dont want people from your neighborhood being cops, and implement and insert a Fed force. Or something. I think ill look into this theory a little more. Its weird cause we know the media is controlled and really pushes alot of this issues.

Just my thoughts and opinons about this stuff.

None of this matters right now. This is how the people in power distract us. We get bogged down by these issues. There are civil right violations happening to both sides and we should abide by the laws of land and stand up for those being oppressed by coming together.

I do hope you do some research because education is always a good thing. Also we need to trust in each other so I'd hope that instead of saying "I just don't see how they could be right" give them the benefit of the doubt and let them fight their fight. It doesn't really concern you. We are told it does by the media but that is just another damn distraction.

Hacked emails from Soros indicate exactly that. The push for a FED police force due to BLM chaos.

I've heard people saying that police violence towards minorities is not greater than that towards whites, but have not seen any data to support this claim. It's tough because the only official statistics are those provided by the FBI, which precincts report their data voluntarily, such is clearly not a good representation. So, those databases that do exist are created by journalists or non profits and they don't go back very far. For example, The Guardian has data counted "with traditional police reports and witness statements, by monitoring regional news outlets, research groups, and open source reporting projects such as the websites Fatal Encounters and Killed by Police." Both The Guardian and the "Mapping Police Violence" project have found that an unarmed minority is about 3x as likely to be killed by the police as an unarmed white person. Also referenced is the U.S. Police Shootings Database and Killed by Police, coupled with Fatal Encounters, FiveThirtyEight called these the three largest, most comprehensive and impartial croudsourced databases on police killings in the country. If you have another source, please let me know, but if not, this data stands as the best we've got to go on.

Point being that this was regarding unarmed people, which should have nothing to do with the "violent gang types". I think the militarization of local police is very real, and is particularly dangerous in regards to training, as there's far too much focus on shooting and not de-escalation. The more a precinct looks and acts like an occupying force, the worse off it is for everyone. Keeping in mind your theory, the last source is a federal site, but if their goal is to take over local precincts, bad mouthing militarization would not be the way to go.

Regardless of all of this, what I was really looking for was thoughts on how to effectively get our country back from the rampant corruption. Mine was more about seizing the means of production.

Ill check your data, but I just turned the tv on and saw a blurb about a bill that just gave the president power, in war and peacetimes to have martial law....er...makes my conspiracy mind wonder even more.

This bill has been around since the Truman erra. The changes were made so that certain powers in the bill moved from some depts to DHS.

sounds good!

Not to jinx anything, but I can't ever see the US being under true martial law. It's just too big, no one would stand for it (physical vs. digital presence are very different), and what would the corporations get out of it? We're already keeping ourselves busy buying the newest smartphone and staring at it, hoping we won't be noticed on the street. Anything physically invasive like that would decrease sales on most fronts.

I've heard people saying that police violence towards minorities is not greater than that towards whites

Depends on your definition of "greater"

By numbers, whites are killed more than blacks by police

By demographic percentages, blacks are at greater risk than whites

One thing that's never mentioned is how over 90% of people killed by police are male

Absolutely right in all accounts. I suppose the male thing is that police officers trend to feel not threatened by males? Males tend to be more physically powerful, and account for something like 80% of violent crimes in the US. Do you have other thoughts on this?

What percentage of crime is committed by minorities? There are studies showing even black cops are more likely to fire their weapons at suspicious looking black males. I don't think the majority of police are "out to get" any specific ethnicity. They merely do their job, and adapt to survive. I treat people the way they deserve to be treated. I don't care what color you are, only about your actions. Being a specific color does not mean it is OK to commit crimes or run from the police. We should all be held accountable for our actions, it is the only way for the human RACE to advance together.

I never claimed that anyone should be allowed to act criminally, civilian or police. I also never claimed that anyone is "out to get" anyone. I think that this bias in police violence is clearly an issue (looking at the data we have), and while there's a certain percentage of cops that are acting purposefully malicious, I think the vast majority of this is due to an unconscious bias. Being unconscious, the only way to overcome it is through training. The best way, I think, would be training that strongly downplays the use of force and strongly emphasizes de-escalate techniques. This way everyone's biases (regardless of what they are) become less of an issue across the board. If you read the last article I linked in my previous comment, the DOJ has seen police training becoming increasingly focused on using a weapon, and I think that is what needs to be remedied.

There are probably other, better ways to fix this, but this isn't my field. We need the DOJ to enact proper training techniques developed by professional sociologists and psychologists based off of well established science.

Unfortunately, you're wasting your breath speaking police brutality truths in here. They don't get it no matter how you put it. Funny how everyone in this sub is terrified of "martial law" and losing their rights, but are the first ones to blindly defend dirty cops no matter what they've done.

Actually, for the most part, people have been pretty reasonable. But I've definitely seeing a predilection for defending the police around this sub, which I don't get.

The people that have all the power don't need your help. When faced with taking sides with an individual or the most powerful sociopolitical system on the planet, chances are the individual could use your sympathy more. Creating an environment where siding with the powers that be seems like the right idea is an age-old technique used to divide us against each other.

And this is the exact divisive bullshit we are talking about. Everyone needs to lose their fucking egos and the thinking that they are right. It is possible there is a happy medium and both sides have valid points and issues. But we cant even agree on very basic statistical factual data. Fuckin christ. We are fucked.

it's funny how you discount the data then attempt to use it, saying that you can't find it. the data shows that when the suspects are armed, that more often whites are killed. also when it comes to being unarmed, most of those times the people were killed attempting to grab a police officers gun. This kind of talk divides us, cherry picking stats to fit a narratice. It isn't a race issue, it's an issue where the police, certain members of the populace and poor protocols are to blame.

No idea what your first sentence means. None of this data is cherry picked, it's all unarmed civilians that have been killed by police, unarmed because if it was everyone killed by police, people would complain that it's including those threatening to kill the cops with a gun. Until you have any data to back up the bold claims you're making, I would say please don't make baseless statements. And I agree that this is a failure in protocol, training protocol, to be specific.

Regardless, my original comment expressed the same idea that, seeing as 95% of police violence is against the poor, banding together with movements that protest racial inequality, maybe we could create a huge movement, of every color, fighting with the one clear goal of taking our country back from the people we should all be angry at: the robber barons that have us and our country by the balls.

When I said it's Cherry picked I meant you just addressed the unarmed stats and not the armed.

I am addressing all killed by police because the blm movement includes defense of those that were armed who were killed by police, including felons.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/7264/5-statistics-you-need-know-about-cops-killing-aaron-bandler

I think we agree on a lot of this, but my main point here is that it's a classiest issue turned into a race issue and on both sides an us versus them mentality (civilians vs cops) where it shouldn't be. Police are a necessity but shouldn't be used as an internal military presence as they so often are. We (as a people) should look at shootings on a case by case basis and not defend those who are trying to kill cops because of their skin color . I'm not accusing you, just making a blanket statemenr.

I see what you're saying. Yeah, I don't think I disagree with you on any particular point. To be sure, the issue that encompasses most all of it is classism (a word that wasn't even coming up as a suggestion on Google keyboard...).

Yes, it is a controlled movement.

And here we go with the wedges.

This is why we have what we have, folks. Disagreements over very tiny issues.

other than a fed force i think that its probably being used as justification for larger budgets and the buying of military surplus equipment.

Good points, I hadnt thought about the idea of fed police & taking people out of their neighbourhood they grew up in or have family/friends in. That could increase the possibilities of violence etc.

Outlawing lobbying would be a good start

Then making police pensions pay for settlements vs tax dollars. Also demilitarize the police.

We the people could use a little representation

Great points and very well written

Thanks very much!

I'm convinced that the big issue isn't race, it's income. Black people just happen to be on the lower side of income because of the systemic racism that America used to have. Now the media makes it about race because it's easy to keep a minority down, but if 90% of the population felt as though they were being treated unfairly then things would be different.

Absolutely. That's basically the point I was making, that if we could ask all factions of protestors, protesting against systemic racism against various groups regarding various systems (which is definitely an issue), to put that temporarily aside and all come together under the issue of being oppressed as a group because of our income, maybe we could take this country back together. It just needs to be a large number of us with a clear goal.

no lives matter. people are people.

The media makes it seem more divided than it is

The media is what needs the most to be taken over. As long as everything we see, hear, or read is controlled then we will always be controlled by it. When the illusion of what truth actually is can no longer be denied, then I think change may be possible but only if we quit with the constant bickering over petty shit.

YES. When I dream of revolution in the streets I dream of a Fight-Club style demolition of 30 Rock (the NBC building) first, followed by the others one by one. After calling in a bomb threat and getting everyone out of the building of course. FBI/CIA/NTAC etc please don't arrest me I'm not actually going to do this.

I suggest millions of peoples surround Fort Leavenworth and demand Bradley Manning is released peacefully

Thats Chelsea now buddy.

Agreed. If all the stuff we discuss on this forum was on the MSM, people would start fighting for change. Most people I know slurp up the news whether it's NPR or network news. It's like they're unwilling to accept that the powers that be are smart enough to realize that controlling the media is controlling our perception of what's happening. It's tough, because they have decades of psychological research on their side and are constantly polluting the information stream with half truths, mixed with lies, mixed with truth. Then add in some controlled opposition for good measure....

If anything has been shown this election cycle it's that no place is safe from political influence at this point, r/politics being the most obvious evidence of that with the wholesale surrender of anything resembling free thought. Currently it looks as though it's coming back around, guess they ran out of money?

What is the process for taking over a corporation? Because we would have to take over all 6, for that to happen.

Or simply boycott them, and create our own, But then, who do we really trust?

I think we need more realistic solution.

Lol. I didn't say it could be done. Certainly no legal way I know of.

After a good bit of thought. I don't really see another solution. What can be done at this point? Nothing. The original networks were created with the populace in mind so maybe there is actual legal ground to stand on but I'm not that guy. We're fucked.

Besides competition, the next best way to kill a corporation is to starve it. Deprive it of nourishment; revenue.

In the case of the media, the nourishment is viewership and advertising.

Can I ask something really naive? Why isn't there even one single independent media that is really strong and popular that could possibly compete with the other big ones? There are a plenty of smaller websites and so on but how come nothing has gotten to the size of Time or something? I know the question is probably stupid so sorry about that, I'd just like it explained as I keep thinking about it. Is it because none of them have finances to grow? Or is the interest in them so scattered that none unifies all the readers that would be interested in it?

IMO and it's just that, this doesn't just apply to media but manufacturing as well, the game is rigged so that only large companies can really excel in today's environment. Basically it boils down to the size of your wallet. I'm with you, I sure wish there was just one, a single one, media source that wasn't completely biased given the views of the owner or board. We do not have such a thing. The entire idea of news should be first and foremost, truth, and I believe at the beginning there were actual trustworthy news outlets in America but I believe that stopped very shortly after it began since of course they were partially if not entirely funded from taxpayer dollars. Essentially we created this monster and we all know it yet we still support it daily. Find me someone who actually gives two shits about what Kim Kardashian wore yesterday and I'll kiss Hillary's ass personally.

BLM, atheists vs fundies, abortion, and gay rights.

Gay rights? Seriously? What is wrong with you?

Your nit-picky attitude needs to stay at the door.

I care about gay rights. Sue me.

I didn't see him offer any opinion on it, just point out that it's a wedge issue. Politicians absolutely use it as a wedge issue, it's something that doesn't affect other people AT ALL, but people go absolutely apeshit over it to the point that they may make it the main reason they vote for a candidate. It's pathetic.

well...for one, he just has a different point of view on one thing. But that does not make him all wrong, right?

Beats me I upvoted you though. I like people's rights. All of the people. Except dead ones. They smell.

I think the division was there. BLM is just shining a light on it.

That may be a bit knit picky but I think it's important to direct conversations toward remembering that forces in the past created that division and then they are maintaining it (with our help -to varying degrees depending on the person).

Where BLM faulters is some of their members' lack of desire to be more specific than "white people" as the creators and maintainers of The Divide.

This is exactly what the architects of that divide want. Allow them to blend in to a sea of white. (Even convince that sea that they should help with maintaining the divide: Trump's racist factions)

We need to get very specific in the practice of blaming. And we need to get accurate with who we define as the movers and shakers for the oligarchy.

Once there is specificity then pressure can be applied and reapplied.

Right now the brute force method of just being loud af and getting people's attention is at least waking ppl up. But the oligarchy is using that alertness by catching people in their cultural hegemony.

How we fight cultural hegemony without having our own content creators (TV, internet) that are removed from their control I do not know.

A brainstorm session would be good.

[Edit] Changed the wording in the second paragraph

Start a new brain storming thread, I'll join and contribute. It should be sticky-ed. Anyone who crashes the thread without serious contributions should be down voted and ignored.

Why do you think George Soros orchestrated BLM?

Because when blacks and whites are against each other, we cannot be together against the likes of George Soros. Until we as a group all realise this, we won't be able to achieve anything.

black lives matter, transgender bathrooms, abortion, guns, prayer in schools, etc are all wedge issues meant to divide and distract.

I forget who, it may have been one of the Mersheimer and Walt guys (from the Israeli Lobby book and docu) who posit that governments are much more likely to lie to their own population than to foreign governments because a nation's citizens don't want to think their own government would lie to them and foreign governments are more skeptical.

Bottom line is I don't think a damn thing will be done about the corruption

It's definitely a problem that we spend too much time looking to the left and right for enemies when we should all be looking up.

What we should be mindful of is that opportunity is always there for those that seek it. Even splintered groups have common ground.

Id venture that its the antinationalists who are much more trusting of govenment than nationalists. Im a nationalist, and our government is the problem.

"United we stand, divided we fall."

we just need a place to stand that is taken seriously and watched by many.. the people don't have any say on getting a message out to the masses. oh, and people need to be more optimistic/serious.

Being against your goverment is the most patriotic thing you can do

Abortion, immigration etc Keep the people divided but are non issues in that any change is slow.

So give them a new face to ralley behind. Say we're actually doing it. Show momentum and see who jumps ship to join with the winning side. A govt is people. We are people. We have the ability to take it back.

For example, you bringing up BLM. Let the group be. Don't focus on it. Focus on the non-wedge issues. Why start a fight about what some people disagree about when you can start a dialogue about something we all agree on?

but we also have people who are too proud about nationalism that they still trust in our gov

Or maybe they have a lot of trouble believing conspiracy theories, ever thought of that

The issue isn't government. It's capitalist corruption in government.

We need to establish communism.

Communism is the perfect government....on paper. But in reality it sucks.

That's one thing I'm ok with about capitalism.. You make your own money.. But not capitalist current America. You make money for the government.

But in reality it sucks.

It's never existed in reality.

Communism, by definition is a classless society. Every 'example' of Communism has a very clear leading party.

You make your own money

You make money by exploiting people under you.

You make money for the government.

...no? In theory that money helps you. The issue is capitalist greed keeping that money away from you. Capitalism is the reason you hate the government. It requires greed, and greed causes corruption. Communism, and other Socialist policies relies on sharing and empathy. Actually caring about fellow man.

Black Lives Matter is smeared by the media and most middle class people, though. This is just a tactic - used again, and again, and again - to turn slightly better off people against oppressed African Americans. This tactic was used with indentured servants (you've got it so much better than the slaves!) and poor white land owners. So don't blame the other people who are protesting.

The real 'wedge' issues involve stupid stereotypes like the black welfare queen, the lazy Mexican, the entitled millennial, the 'useless' liberal arts graduates, the 'feminazi', the crazy environmental activist, etc. Note - fighting for African American / women's / LGBT / whatever fair treatment is not a zero sum game where their rights somehow diminish yours, but even on Reddit you would think that's the case. Additionally, the elite abuse policy stances on things like abortion, birth control, taxes, public schools, healthcare and the minimum wage to make us poor, sick, and incapable of caring for our own kids. Before Black Lives Matter, it was 'those stupid millennials' at Occupy Wallstreet. That doesn't mean they had nothing legitimate to protest.

The political spin merchants reinforce those wedge issues every day. What we can do is, somehow, reinforce the many, many other issues upon which are generally agreed.

I'm a firm believer that individuals living today have more in common than that which divides us. These commonalities go unnoticed, as we take them for granted.

Examples:

• Safety in our homes; safety walking the streets.

• Being fed, and seeing that others are fed, too.

• A safe, satisfying, well-paying and rewarding career.

• Everybody wants to feel that what they do is appreciated. (This is probably not available to be enforced through public measures, but it's an important commonality nonetheless.)

• We all want to be entertained; given a means to escape our troubles for a period of time.

Etc., etc., etc..

three day work week is economically viable. the other three days you volunteer, or do training, or pursue interests.

I never understood why we don't have at least a 4 day work week. This is just a standard that is uniform around the world. If the markets could be stabilized, you could switch to a 4 day work week in a matter of days.

What is the relation between "stable" markets and a 4 day work week? Also, how do you define "stable"?

For real though. I am almost completely opposite of most Trump supporters, but when I'm in subs like /r/Hillaryforprison and subs where the stupid divisive shit is put on the backburner, much better conversations take place. I think it's about time the people stop with this petty left or right bullshit until we get corruption out of our government. Everything else can wait because nothing will fucking change one way or another if the government doesn't listen to us.

left versus right, white versus black, millennial versus boomer, coke versus pepsi, red versus blue -anything will do.

phony football rivalries.

Divide & conquer is the oldest trick in the book. There is only we, the individuals, and those who would enslave us. Those are the only groups that matter.

Come on boy, come on boy, look! LOOK! It's a Bible! Yeah! And a gun! And a gay guy! Over here! Come on boy!

If dem gays would just shut up we could have a glorious revolution

Don't forget that they can distort how effective those wedge issues seem. They can make it seem like tons of people are prepared to be violent over seemingly trivial shit when in reality that's not the case. Agent provocateurs and the media can make all sorts of shit go south if they know people are not getting news elsewhere. The first step is getting people to look past that bubble.

Their plans are starting to fail. People are starting to see the lies for what they are, the wedge issues are changing from manipulation to identifiers. They made the mistake of being too cocky and the tide has turned, we are working together now.

The manipulation was so over the top that it's crumbling now, we are taking the power back day by day.

But I'm for small government and no abortions and you are the exact opposite of me!!!! You want trannys in every stall!!!

This is so true. I went to a Tea Party meeting in my county where Gary Johnson attended. They were 99% in agreement. Then, when asked about abortion, Gary said he was pro choice. Boom.. the whole audience (except me) hated him. It's so silly to allow inconsequential wedge issues to divide us. Unification is what scares the Establishment - so they do everything they can to get our conversations to move back to the philosophical wedge issues that waste our time.

EDIT: Stop trying to get me to talk about abortion or any other wedge issue. I am saying that issues where there's agreement are the important ones. Issues of conversation meant to confuse everyone and sidetrack them into debate are what I have a problem with.

Further, one's opinion, honestly, is not going to effect a change in a term or even two terms.

I remember back in 2000 (when I was very apolitical), the liberals then were screaming, "OMG, you can't even consider George Bush...he'll appoint Supreme Court justices and overturn Roe!!"

I didn't care much for either candidate then, but I knew that if there was a vacancy, a conservative leaning judge probably would be appointed, but that did not guarantee he would only write pro-life opinions, and further, even if said justice was a rabid, singular minded pro-lifer, it would only matter if a case on point was granted certiorari and heard... That's a lot of hoops. To me, the whole argument was unnecessary panic.

But they did it again in 2012. You had an amazing bipartisan grass roots movement for Ron Paul, running on a lot of principles of Obama's 2008 campaign (which turned out to be a masterful swindle). Ron Paul wanted out of the interventionist wars, he wanted to sever wall street and federal government ties, ending the Fed, end bailouts, end quantitative easing, promote transparency, support whistleblowers, etc. It was simply a candidate with integrity who was not going to play the game in Washington.

But in interviews, when asked about his abortion stance, he answered honestly and said he was pro-life, but that this view was personal and he didn't believe in influencing policy based on his personal views [He did however believe that— like gay marriage (and following the doctrine of federalism)— that states should decide for themselves.]

That one particular view turned every liberal against him (and of course later, there were the so-called racist newsletters which were so distorted by the media), not to mention the fact that countless primaries were stolen from him...

But my point is...who the fuck cares about someone's pro-life life opinion, especially when surveillance and the police state, and the TPP, and innumerable other issues are of more importance. And anyway, such a view almost certainly will not upset the current policy in place with Roe.

But in interviews, when asked about his abortion stance, he answered honestly and said he was pro-life, but that this view was personal and he didn't believe in influencing policy based on his personal views

Well, ok, but did you look up what he actually did? Or was his lip service enough? Because what he did was attempt to pass legislation to ban abortion at the Federal level every single year he served in Congress.

So much for his view being personal; individual choices about the sanctity of life is just a little too much personal freedom for ol' Ron Paul.

Ok... This is legal and complicated. I don't know what he voted for. But the federal government can only do certain things. The President, Congress, Courts, all have enumerated powers. If it's not specified as something they can do in the Constitution, then they can't do it. This is why there was a debate in ~1790 over whether or not there should even be a bill of rights.

One one hand, some people wanted it...a list of natural rights guaranteed to everyone. But opponents said, "Why? The Constitution gives power from the people to the federal government, so it follows that anything not given is automatically retained...And further, in 100 years, people might believe that this bill of rights merely enumerates a finite list of rights—at the exclusion of all others." [And this has pretty much happened.]

They agreed on the Bill of Rights, or Ten Amendments to the Constitution, but only with the following 9th and 10th amendments. These amendments are:

IX

The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.

X

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

First, I know how things have evolved today, and that the Constitution is ignored. Essentially our government is illegal. But Ron Paul can't vote on a bill to ban abortion at the federal level because the federal government has no rights whatsoever as it pertains to abortion—either in the Constitution or derived from common law. What Roe did was in a very vague and convoluted way bring it under substantive due process stating that a woman could have an abortion...that was the only way at the time to settle that issue. I think the outcome is good (I'm pro-choice), but I think the way it was done was flawed and if you read the opinion, somewhat of a reach.

Compare this to gay marriage... I loved it when fucking Bush was saying that he was going to pass a law prohibiting gay marriage... That's ludicrous! The federal government has no power whatsoever to say word one about marriage. What finally happened with gay marriage is what should have happened: the federal government just stopped talking about it, and the states were left to decide on their own. Historically, things like marriage and family have always been governed by reach individual state (it's how most laws should be...as in a laboratory of democracy..the states would ultimately choose the best laws based on another state's enactment of a law and whether it failed or succeeded...whether the people liked it, whether they complained, etc. It's like pot laws now...other than fear of the federal drug laws (which are illegal by the way), every state would have already passed laws legalizing pot because of the tax revenue.)

So Ron Paul was not voting to "ban abortion" in any way. He was however trying to proceed the same way that Gay Marriage ultimately resolved itself: take federal hands off of it, let the states decide.

But then of course liberals heard this and immediately thought that every woman was going to be forced to go back to coat hanger abortions in alleyways. But in 2000 or 2005 (in other words in our more enlightened era today) this would not happen. Admittedly. there are still some backwards states in the bible belt who would race to try and pass laws banning abortion. But they would not last. Public policy and common sense would overrule the moronic religious right in time.

But Ron Paul can't vote on a bill to ban abortion at the federal level because the federal government has no rights whatsoever as it pertains to abortion—either in the Constitution or derived from common law.

Look, I mean, you can look up his record yourself - he regularly voted for bills that would have made abortion illegal at the Federal level, by finding for fetuses a Federal right not to be aborted. He absolutely was voting to ban abortion at the Federal level, which indicates he absolutely believed the Federal government had the Constitutional authority to do so.

Look, you said yourself you don't know what he voted for. Why don't you educate yourself on what Ron Paul does, instead of what he says? The theories of government by which he actually tries to govern, instead of what he purports to govern by?

I'd be happy to. He has a huge congressional record and I don't even know what years or the name of the bill..whether he was the sole sponsor, etc.

I'm only saying that until Roe there was no way the federal government could do anything regarding abortion. With Roe they used medical necessity and legal gymnastics to fit it into a substantive due process right.

I'll concede that RP might have been voting to simply remove abortion from the purview of the federal government. If George Bush had brought a Supreme Court Case to place all marriage under the domain of the federal government (which would then allow Congress to pass a law prohibiting gay marriage), it would be the same as someone voting on a bill which removed marriage from being under the authority of the federal government...

I'm saying it's a different goal. Voting to take abortion out of the hands of the federal government so the federal government would have no authority over it is not the same as "banning it", and banning then would apply to the entire country. The drug laws ban "drugs" at the federal level, so no matter what the states have as their drug laws, the federal laws control and they are illegal.

So if RP was voting to create a law that banned abortion (as a federal statute), it would apply to every state, and that would have been a huge issue that would have been brought up every time he sat down for any interview...it would have been a nightmare to run on such a record.

RP was far more of a "no law" or "less law" kind of guy as opposed to more laws. So I could see him voting for removing all laws having to do with abortion at the federal level...leaving it up to the states to decide.

I don't even know what years or the name of the bill..whether he was the sole sponsor, etc.

All of that is fully in the public record, and I definitely linked it to you as well. You can read the text and explanation of the bills Ron Paul submitted to Congress.

I'm only saying that until Roe there was no way the federal government could do anything regarding abortion.

But you're mistaken. For instance, the Federal government could have passed a constitutional amendment banning abortion throughout the country, which could then be ratified by a majority of the states, thereby banning abortion in all of them. That's the most extreme example - what Ron Paul actually tried to do was backdoor-ban it at the Federal level by finding a constitutional right of individual fetuses not to be aborted, which would have the same effect, because the states cannot restrict your Federal constitutional rights under the 14th Amendment.

I'll concede that RP might have been voting to simply remove abortion from the purview of the federal government.

I don't understand what you think you're "conceding" there. I mean I'm directly telling you that's not the case. Ron Paul's proposed legislation would not have removed abortion from the purview of the Federal government; it would have banned abortion by requiring the Federal government to prosecute any abortion as the murder of a US citizen.

Voting to take abortion out of the hands of the federal government so the federal government would have no authority over it is not the same as "banning it"

Yes, I get that. But that's not what Ron Paul ever attempted to do. What he repeatedly voted for was a ban on abortion that applied universally within the borders of the United States, and which would have pre-empted state authority of the issue altogether, by the supremacy clause.

So if RP was voting to create a law that banned abortion (as a federal statute), it would apply to every state, and that would have been a huge issue that would have been brought up every time he sat down for any interview...it would have been a nightmare to run on such a record.

Well, unless people accepted his lip service at face value instead of looking into his record. You know, like you did.

I'll look it up...But if this was actually what he was trying to do, then fuck...no one needed to dig up any "racist newsletters". Media outlets like CNN would have done hour long exposés into his voting record!

If he was actually drafting the bills you speak of, then he was one of the most hypocritical men who has ran for president in the past fifteen years. I realize I don't know the man personally, so I can't claim to know his true intentions...But I've looked at parts of his voting record and never saw anything like this (but you can't always tell by names of bills).

But if he really was engineering an end around to Roe (and such endeavors were motivated purely on his personal beliefs) then these actions would stand in diametric opposition to his oft-stated philosophy of government: that representatives act on behalf of their constituents, and the federal government should act within the parameters of the Constitution: echoed in his views to end the drug war or require that Congress declare war, etc. In other words, the federal laws and executive power must fall within specifically enumerated authority granted by the Constitution.

This is like telling me that the Beatles were a boy band manufactured by EMI and Capital records, with all their songs written by a team of songwriters headed by Neil Diamond and Glen Cambell.

"Republican representative of southern state introduces bill to ban abortion"? How is that in any way newsworthy? I think you're severely underestimating how common the knowledge is that Ron Paul's libertarianism is a total hypocritical sham.

A bill that redefines personhood to conception, has at its core a philosophical debate and not Legal one. I don't agree with it, but I can see how he could reconcile such a bill with his views as a libertarian.

Does that "sanctity of life" bill sound authoritarian to you? No..it's not even attempting to declare that some act is prohibited. It's simply redefining when life starts. Through that redefinition, I acknowledge there would be secondary effects, but I don't think it makes his "libertarianism" a sham.

I'd have to read the entire bill, but my guess is that it was a way for him to implement his pro-life views but allow him to sleep at night.

Further, the pro-life perspective, though it's inherently flawed, is rooted in that person (who subscribes to pro-life) believing that, through some kind of imaginary subjugation they are the voice of the fetus, so they believe that pro-choice rights infringe on them. I agree it's not a legal argument, and I disagree with it entirely, yet I still empathize (or at least try to) with the way they feel. It's the way I'd want to be treated.

Does that "sanctity of life" bill sound authoritarian to you? No..it's not even attempting to declare that some act is prohibited. It's simply redefining when life starts.

Sure, but for the explicit and sole purpose of banning abortion. It wouldn't apply to, say, calculating your age for any legal purpose - your legal age wouldn't be advanced 9 months to account for the extra time, retroactively, that you had been a person. That indicates that this is just Ron Paul reasoning backwards from the outcome he'd like - a total ban on abortion within the borders of the United States.

I don't think it makes his "libertarianism" a sham.

I mean it does - what's libertarian, explicitly, about the Federal government determining on behalf of the states when life begins? If the people of California desire to affirm that life begins at birth, for what reason does Ron Paul override that view with his own more restrictive definition?

Well, obviously, because it's his desire as a social conservative that the people of California not be able to avail themselves of abortions.

First regarding, "banning abortion", I didn't mean that specific language. A bill redefining when life begins doesn't address abortion, but it affects it indirectly... And I know he never promoted a bill that sought to regulate abortion directly in any way. I know the manner in which laws prohibiting a certain act or undertaking, or the possession or sale of some item are drafted.

Second, I'll acquiesce and say that RP's promotion of those bills are not one of his prouder moments. But I still believe that above everything, his integrity is the most important value to him. As such, (i) he promoted a bill redefining when life begins, and not abortion itself, avoiding in form if not substance, a patent legislation of his personal morality, and; (ii) probably had the requisite numbers of those in his Texas district in favor of such a bill as he'd want to be sure he was acting on behalf of those who put him in office. As I suggested, maybe he did these things so he could sleep at night... because he definitely knows better.

But waaaiiit just a bit on your conclusion that he's a social conservative. He may have his view on pro-life... But come on, there is no fucking way I am putting him in the same Venn diagram circle with Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Michele Bachmann, and any other Republican (from 2012) I can think of. He had a "hands off" policy on gay marriage (which is the current working policy) and he wanted to end the war on drugs.

Do you know of other social issues in which his leaning was something other than his libertarian ideology?

A bill redefining when life begins doesn't address abortion, but it affects it indirectly

The effect is obviously direct, and obviously the intent of the legislation. No one cares about the definition of the "beginning of life" except those opposed to abortion.

And I know he never promoted a bill that sought to regulate abortion directly in any way.

I mean except for the bills I keep showing you. Additionally, Paul voted in favor of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act, which, in section 3 ("PROHIBITION ON PARTIAL-BIRTH ABORTIONS"), enacted:

Sec. 1531. Partial-birth abortions prohibited

``(a) Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

So, again, you're completely mistaken - Paul has, on regular occasions, supported and voted for bills that directly prohibit abortions at the Federal level. I don't know what else I have to show you to prove to you that this is not an issue that Paul "leaves to the states."

But waaaiiit just a bit on your conclusion that he's a social conservative. He may have his view on pro-life... But come on, there is no fucking way I am putting him in the same Venn diagram circle with Rick Santorum, Rick Perry, Newt Gingrich, Michele Bachmann, and any other Republican (from 2012) I can think of.

Well, sure. Uniquely, he's the only southern conservative Republican trying to hoodwink you into thinking he's some kind of Republi-tarian who opposes abortion but won't vote on that basis. The problem I'm trying to get across to you is, all the evidence you have from that comes from Ron Paul telling you it's true. But it isn't. He just wants you to think that.

He had a "hands off" policy on gay marriage (which is the current working policy) and he wanted to end the war on drugs.

Only the second of those is true. Paul was a supporter of the Defense of Marriage Act and co-sponsor of the Marriage Protection Act which would prohibit any Federal court from hearing challenge to the DOMA.

In my mind the biggest social issue is the unbelievably costly and harmful War on Drugs™ ...and on the political side of things, I rank surveillance, the police state, the monetary policy and the Fed, the trillions spent on wars, and the military-industrial (Wall Street) -intelligence complex (essentially the reason why Occupy arose).

From everything you've told me and that I've read today, I am more acutely aware of Ron Paul's politics as a representative. I'm disappointed in Paul and that he would sponsor the Marriage Protection Act— an Act that would have prevented federal courts from interpreting DOMA (before it was struck down). I give you credit for enlightening me...you have certainly altered my opinion about Paul on these issues. I sincerely mean that.

Notwithstanding all of that, when you balance out the bad from the good, there was still no better candidate than him in 2012. I voted for Obama, and he lied about virtually everything he campaigned for (transparency, whistleblowers, slashing military budget, etc). Paul had the Republican nomination stolen from him, as a follower I saw every media outlet ignore him, and the Establishment Republican party insert Mitt Romney. I couldn't stand Romney, but Obama had himself only given lip service to everything he supposedly was for. I didn't vote in 2012....I couldn't.

Four years later things are worse. If you hang out in this sub you know they are.

Ron Paul is not relevant any more, and I suppose the only reason I put effort into defending him today (though I was wrong about some things) is because I brought him up above as a viable candidate for president in 2012. I'll admit he's not as libertarian as he professes, and he is conservative on some social issues, but despite that, he was better than any Republican candidate, and a better candidate than Obama, who had shown for four years that he could do the opposite of what he campaigned for in 2008.

Four years later things are worse. If you hang out in this sub you know they are.

I mean they're not. Not by anything objective we can measure. I don't anticipate convincing you, but the reason I ever click on a link to r/conspiracy is to read a bunch of 13-year-olds try to reconcile their inchoate feelings of rage and powerlessness and desire to be special and important with the world as it's presented to them by the media, and by the alt-media, and the alt-alt-media, all with a vested interest in selling them something.

But the truth is that things are not worse. That's scientific fact, if you recognize science. And nothing happens in this subreddit except what conspiracy therists are always doing, which is attempting to explain the world in some other way than the most obvious - that the world is just what happens when you mix up a lot of basically good but human people and a small number of sociopaths and unevenly distribute them in the very thin layer between rock and space, in the places where it's not too wet and not too dry. That the problems of the world are *real problems and it takes the best humanity has to offer to even make microscopic progress on the important stuff, and since we're rarely the best, or even at our best, things don't get better very quickly. And then it just takes one idiot, or one true villian, to really cock things up. And the story that the world is controlled by a small number of powerful evil-doers is just that, a story, a story mental children tell themselves because the notion that the world is someone's evil vision and they themselves are the heroes who will eventually do something about it is still less scarier than the truth that nobody's really in charge, and this world is what it looks like even when our institutions are run by decent and honest people (which, overwhelmingly, they are.)

I mean I don't even think Ron Paul is a bad guy, even after the stuff I've said about him; I think he's just got a very different view of things than I do, or ever will, and even his dishonesty could be explained as the act of a basically good person who believes in something feeling like he's running out of time to achieve it, and starting to take shortcuts.

None of that's meant to talk you into support for Obama. It's meant to talk you out of pinning all your hopes on the next charismatic leader. Because the world isn't helped by leaders. Believe it or not, it's helped by committees.

It's not just charisma that draws me. I was out of college in the early 1990s, and things weren't bad. I went to law school and became an attorney, and made a good amount of money and then invested in commercial real estate. I did well, sold some but wasn't on top of everything in the mortgage market (have you seen "The Big Short"?), and lost a good deal of it. I'm working my way back, but a lot has changed since I graduated law school.

During the 1990s (while in law school) the law and the constitution were still applicable. I may be an atheist, but I believed in a certain level of predictable stability with the rules of government, and the rules that I expected the government to heed.

Then 9/11: And the day they passed the Patriot Act, I brought it up to everyone that that was not how government worked. But since 9/11, everything has changed, and every year, things have gotten worse.

We as a nation were maybe two trillion in debt in 2000 (I can't even remember). As I said above, when Bush was running I was apolitical. But after 9/11, I became very interested in government because I was appalled at the audacity of that administration. After the Patriot Act, and Iraq..Then Obama and his crushing of whistleblowers, and invoking state secrets bullshit. It's wrong. And it's not how the game was played before 9/11. [I'm sure that the there was some illegal surveillance before 9/11, but the government worried about getting caught doing it.]

I did take solace in Obama's words in 2008. Then in 2012, the same with Ron Paul. But remember above where I compared them? I said that Obama's 2008 campaign had similar promises as Ron Paul? That's because they did...it wasn't charisma, it was respect for constitutional authority, Obama gave it lip service, but I believe that RP with a 25 year record (which I checked for consistency but not pro-life or gay marriage bills). And I liked what they both said when they did because I wanted the rules back in place. Back as they were when the government was worried about getting caught surveilling you without a proper warrant, back when there was fucking due process. Sure, the 4th amendment had eroded a bit before 9/11—with RICO and other overreaching laws, but since 9/11, the rules are gone. It's gotten dramatically worse.

I mean fuck, there may be some inchoate whiny people in this sub, but I am not whining because I can't make sense out of disorder. I am upset because I witnessed the semblence of order we once had. Go explore for yourself. I often tell people to download or cue up David Fincher's Se7en. there is a scene where Morgan Freeman is talking about getting library book info about their killer from "people he knows", (and I know such things took place, but it was not talked about, it wasn't done with impunity as it is today). Then after Morgan Freeman's character suggests this, watch Brad Pitt's character's reaction. He goes off on him for even suggesting they do something like that. Watch that scene today and it seems quaint, like the "olden days", but it was 20 years ago! If you think the world under a handful of sociopaths in 1995 is not much different than the same world under a different handful of sociopaths now, you are blind. It's night and day.

You are incredibly smug. I used to get admonished for that 10+ years ago, but man... you are in that stage now.

You have intelligence, but not the wisdom... You profess fact and elucidate your interpretations of situations (or this sub) as if you were a sage, complete with vein of self-proclaimed omniscience... But to be truly smart is to realize you know nothing.

Ok, so I did review the sanctity of life acts. And it doesn't speak to abortion, but it does attempt to redefine legal personhood, which then would be protected simply by federal murder statutes (which as an aside, aren't exactly constitutional either, but no one complains...it's just that no one envisioned "federal police" 240 years ago, and given all 50 states handle criminal law, the federal government doesn't need to).

I do vaguely remember these. While I am not in favor of them, he is a representative. I would hope that he had the support of his constituents at least.

But the difference is, and my apologies because I wasn't thinking this through because there is a difference. Just like I said above where he believes that only Congress is authorized to declare war, he was a strong proponent of the separation of powers. You can believe what you want, but the executive branch—at least constitutionally defined—is not the legislative branch. The executive branch only has a say in the legislative process through his veto power...and that's it.

What I forgot to consider above was that he was a representative on one hand, and drafting and passing laws (pursuant to the will of his constituents) is the job of the House.

I shouldn't second guess you, but I'm going to predict that you will say that he'd somehow steamroll his "sanctity of life" bill through Congress as president. But how? It never got passed when he was a representative, so how would he possibly get it passed as president, especially when he is such a strict constitutionalist? He didn't even have his party backing him (I don't know how much these bills lost by, but it was likely 60% republicans, and a few straggler democrats).

So, I was wrongfully invoking hyperbole above because he was pushing a bill that redefined when life began, which obviously then would make the fetus protected as a person. So you were essentially right. [Although, you kept using the phrase "banning abortion", and I knew of no bills that had any such language. ]

I am pro-choice and would have been upset if those bills passed...But had he become president, he had stated that his priorities...what concerned him...were things like surveillance, the Federal Reserve, secrecy, and a litany of other issues. His followers would have been livid if, as president, he somehow tried to backdoor through Congress a law that nullified Roe. Why? Because doing something like that goes against everything he stands for...which is the Constitution.

But I apologize for not recalling those "sanctity of life" bills, and for drawing this discussion out further than necessary.

Just like I said above where he believes that only Congress is authorized to declare war, he was a strong proponent of the separation of powers. You can believe what you want, but the executive branch—at least constitutionally defined—is not the legislative branch.

I mean, ok, but Ron Paul is (was) a legislator in the legislative branch. So I don't see the relevance of this.

I shouldn't second guess you, but I'm going to predict that you will say that he'd somehow steamroll his "sanctity of life" bill through Congress as president.

Sorry, I'm not speaking to this point at all. It's not relevant what he would do in an office he'll never hold. It's sufficient to demonstrate the phoniness of his "libertarianism" merely by demonstrating what he did do as a sitting US Representative - attempt to legislate his socially conservative views on every American, consistently, every year he served in the House.

Although, you kept using the phrase "banning abortion", and I knew of no bills that had any such language.

No (well, few if any) bill that bans something uses the phrase "X is now banned." "Banned" is just a way that we describe the prohibition of an act, or possession of an item, by force of law or other means. Certainly a law that has the effect of it being unlawful to obtain an abortion is a law that can be described as "banning abortion."

As you say, the laws were proposed as the Sanctity of Life acts. In your view, is it consistent with libertarianism for Congress to take an official stance, and enforce by law, what Americans are to hold sacred? I don't see how it can be, or how that bill can be viewed as anything but an attempt by Ron Paul to hold all Americans (since it would apply anywhere within the borders of the US) to his own individual notion of religious sanctity.

Because doing something like that goes against everything he stands for...which is the Constitution.

But he doesn't stand for it. That's my point. We can judge what he stands for by his activity as a legislator rather than by what he merely pays lip service to. And that activity as a legislator betrays him as someone who believes the Federal government is a tool to enforce his social views on Americans. Anything he says he believes about Constitutional limits on Federal power is merely an attempt to mislead people and gain their support. That's why I'm telling you, ignore what he says he believes about Federal power and the libertarian view, and look at what he acts like he believes about Federal power.

It's so silly to allow inconsequential wedge issues to divide us

I don't really care about of abortions but this shows a pretty big lack of perspective.

If you literally think abortion is murder (right or wrong) would that seem inconsequential?

Even if you don't think abortion itself a big deal the definition of the liberty in a 14th Amendment context is (or should be), which is where the Constitutional issue stems from.

If a person thinks abortion is murder, fine. But who are they to judge? I thought if you were a Christian you confessed YOUR sins and yet still love thy neighbor. Also, every damn one of the anti-abortion people break OTHER commandments every day. Coveting their neighbor's wife, stealing, etc. Why do they get to judge other people? It's bullshit.

I don't get this. When you think about actual murder, callous people ending the lives of others for a bit of money or some other convenience, do you think "oh well, who am I to judge, I steal a candy bar once in a while" or do you think that should be illegal? Even for Christians the idea that the slightest thing is exactly as bad as murdering children is not remotely ubiquitous, in Catholicism for example they have "mortal" and "venial" sins where something like being jealous of your neighbors wife is forgivable but murdering a child is a ticket straight to hell.

For any reasonable Christian it's not about judging others, it's about protecting the children from death. Some believe they have to grow to the age of reason and choose Christianity to get to go to heaven, for example. Those souls are being damned for eternity to purgatory or worse by the people committing the abortions, they are trying to save those people not judge the murderers. Trying to shame them is mainly a tactic to try to make people stop aborting by overwhelming them with guilt before they do it.

The arguments against abortion are more complicated and important than you give them credit for here. The issues at stake are deeply significant, we are talking about the right to have control over ones own body, and the body is an integral component of the self. A person forced to carry a pregnancy is very literally a slave.

Im always divided on the abortion issue. It's interesting you say that "a person forced to carry a pregnancy is very literally a slave". What always boggles my mind is, what is the difference between a fetus and a kid? like is a mother a slave because she is forced to care for her born child? I guess she could give it up for adoption right? It's not like we would let the mother kill the kid, or just completely neglect the born child. like it's not slavery to force a mother to make sure her baby doesn't drown in a bathtub. And yet, by law she literally has to do that or she will go to jail if the kid dies. Is that not a similar type of "slavery"? what do you think?

As you said adoption is an option. This is essential to the idea of slavery because everything else you said is negated by adoption. You don't have to force them to not neglect because they have options to not care for the child at all. That is a legitimate way to completely renounce all responsibility for the child's welfare. There is no equivalency to that while pregnant, except of course abortion.

You are not a slave if you can quit and walk away. That is adoption. But if once pregnant you have to carry to term, and brave the inherent risk of death or debilitation, "quitting" the responsibility is not possible, hence slavery.

a slave to the animal drive to breed, that is

Wedge issue. Doesn't really matter in the long run.

The problem is that the same people opposing abortion are also the same ones who disapprove of welfare systems that help children who are already born. If they care so much about unborn children why do they not care much about certain sects of born children?

They are also the same people who tend to be pro-gun, pro-military, pro police and pro capital punishment whom also harm and often kill people. There is no logic behind any of the assertions, only sports team programming of wedge issues by laughing elites.

Abortion isn't the issue, I could have chosen any topic, it's labeling the things people care about as inconsequential that I took issue with. I'll continue with it as an example though.

Something isn't going to seem like a wedge issue if it directly affects your life. There was another abortion SCOTUS case this year out of Texas. Now, it's easy to look at it from an outside perspective and think "Why are we still talking about this? There are REAL problems to deal with!" But, if you are a woman from Texas who needed an abortion for a medical necessity or used the centers for other types of care it was a pretty big freaking deal.

My point is, most issues have actual people within them who are going to be affected by the outcome.

This is what needs to get said. Many people just parrot what the leaders of their group says in order to feel a part of a group.

Considering they fancy themselves libertarians, they should have some empathy for protecting body autonomy. People who are against abortion never question the concept of children as essential property of their parents, yet they think a cluster of cells' right to autonomy trumps the fullly functional being who will have legal power over the cells-cum-human for 18 years. My only real point being that Tea Partiers are slightly above retarded, brainwashed, and not at all libertarian except when it comes to freedom of racist speech.

I'm not taking the bait.

What bait? I'm not trying to be cryptic. Whether something is 'consequential' is pretty subjective depending on how you look at it. That's my only point.

If someone is passionate about an issue telling them it's inconsequential isn't going to be any more effective at unifying people than engaging them in an argument.

I'm not just pro-choice. I'm pro-abortion all the time. Sterilize these fucking morons, there's too many people here already, not to even get started on immigration. Fuck em all. I'm for post-natal abortion.

Now where's my candidate?

I'm with you. No more babies until this shit get sorted.

This guy fucks. AND aborts.

Damn right.

wedge driven

I got an old play boy from 1969, abortion was the main wedge issue as well.

How about just bathrooms, with full walls and doors that lock. It won't matter who opens the door. Just remember to put the damn seat back down. Dammit.

I close the lid too just so everyone has to do something

Seems fair.

Lids in public restrooms?

Why is it our responsibility to both lift and lower the seat. If it's so easy for us to lower the seat why isn't it so easy for you all. Why not look at it as a positive the seat was raised in the first place instead of having someone piss or dribble on the seat that you are going to sit on in the first place

Because you too, really want to be polite, and leave things as good as or better than you found them. No?

I'm sick of this argument about toilets. I don't get up in arms when i need to reach down and lift a up a seat in order to piss. Nor do i care when i have to put the seat down for a shit. Jesus fuck it's a god damn toilet. Leaving a seat up or down does fuck all good if the next person needs it the opposite that it was left. That's why it's got a good damn option on it. So that if you don't like the way it is you may adjust it. Jesus fuck toilets are the dumbest thing to argue about making the world a better place. I seriously hope that line was a joke.

I'm with you. I don't give two shits if the seat is up or down or if the toilet paper is hung front or back or if there is a member of the opposite sex in there or if the door has gaps in it. I just want to bloody well relieve myself.

Toilets- wedge issue, 2016

Are you claiming toilet seat position to be a binary option you shitlord!?

The clear option is to have no seat and simply a hole in the ground. If the seat causes such division then clearly the problem is the seat and not the people.

Thank you. We are brothers you and I.

That's why there are urinals, pal.

Not right now you don't

They aren't urinals in homes or many shared bathrooms in public places.

We need foot lever toilet seats to truly unify the country.

Could be a solution

Do you like it when you have to poop and you go in half asleep or distracted and sit down, only to realize the seat is up and your ass is in toilet water? No one does. Be polite and close the entire lid as well. Then we are all expected to put the seat and lid down, problem solved.

But then you'd be shitting on the lid...

At least there wont be any toilet water backsplash.

Maybe you should just look where you shit. Sounds like operator error to me

I also don't like when I'm half asleep and go to take a piss and it hits the lid and sprays all over my feet so no you lose everyone should be responsible for putting the seat how they want it before using the bathroom period.

^ that shit right there nigga, toilets are gross and spray your piss and shit everywhere, let's all be polite and clean and close both.

Yet the seats are some of the cleanest things in the majority of households, lol

I just look at the toilet beforehand and put the seat down if it was left up, why do females act entitled to the seat being down at all times.

Yup.. as long as we fight about this shit, that shit continues, that's why we have two main political parties, each taking up the extreme of each side of every argument to keep us divided. These days we're even divided further.

The powers that be do not want us to agree and get along, if that happened we'd have to take a serious look at them.

Small government and illegal abortions is an oxymoron.

Your reply shows how bad you missed the point. None of this is worth any breath. We need to take on evil.

So, kill the religious fundies. Got it. I'm on board. They're fucking up the world

Edit: already getting the downvotes, you stupid religious fucks, you really think your 'god' is anything but an illusion designed to keep you under control and following the rules the elites set to keep you in line for centuries? The fucking commandments are about listening to "authority"... Wake the fuck up.

The elite are the puppet masters. They created and run the religions.

Replies like yours make this sub appear illegitimate.

Good luck taking on "evil".

The elite.

Yeah, good luck with that.

That's what this thread is about.

Tolerance does not equal acceptance. But you're right, your Utopia will be different than mine. Guess we just have to find one that works best for the individual!

Always be wary of agent provocateurs, especially when we organize!

The same people who infiltrated and ended the Native American rights movements (Red Army) during the 60's were the Exact same people who infiltrated, split up, and ended the Black Panther Party in the early 70's. We must be weary of the CIA and their operatives.

Sean Hannity had a guest host on recently who interviewed one of his buddies at DHS. He said explicitly that their primary mission was infiltrating and disrupting movements.

that infowars guy is a cointelpro agent

I don't doubt that at all. I remember liking him, and then catching onto the pattern... He takes the side that I think the CIA would take, on almost every issue.

What organizations are out there?

it could be any one of us!

Trust me, there's enough people willing to join the cause from all over the world. Our next step is getting us all together with one plan, a good plan; to actually do something about it. That in my opinion is the biggest and hardest part to overthrow the corrupt in charge. Where and how do we all come together, and what is the plan?

Someone needs to start a new thread, with the basic premise of formulating and outlining/brainstorming ideas/plans to begin with. It's going to start online, it's the easiest and best way to communicate as of right now.

I agree however the sub would need to be private imo. An open forum would invite infiltrators, shills, and provocateurs undermining any movement before it began.

Yeah, it will be private. I'm in the process of starting one, if you want to help let me know. I don't know what I'm doing.

There will be several people to begin with who will be able to invite other members who are deemed legit/not a shill. Keep the ball rolling it won't stop.

Never started a sub either. Have you thought of a name?

Good name might be Usurpation Oppositionist Manifesto..

Shouldn't it be in /r/socialism ?

Zing

wasn't this what the hippies tried and the wall street protests tried? failed. what needs to be done differently?

What about a boycott. It would require individual financial sacrifice, but it would be a non violent way to send a strong message. I see it happening like this: Submit a list of grievances with a due date, if the grievances are not remedied in time we stop going to work and stop unnecessary purchases; basically stop participating economically. The corporations and govt would have a shit fit due to the lack of revenue. The grievances could include the elimination of the lobby, reversing citizens united, setting term limits for politicians and campaign finance reform. The best part is, we can do this from home. Non participation.

The problem with this is the elite has us right where they want us. Most of us who are bothered by the system are the ones being screwed, so we live by paycheck. We stop going to work we have no money to support our families with a home and food. A lot of these people rely on huge cooperations because its generally cheaper to buy essentials and food compared to independent businesses.

Gasoline and matches

If I have a plan, how would I post anything about it? Or where would I post it?

I would be surprised if there wasn't some kind of authority watching over this entire discussion like a group of headhunters, looking for the strongest potential warrior to make an example out of.

This. Can't even get people to agree to disagree...on anything! Everything is a personal war now, it's surreal. And the powers that be love it that way. Easy to rule over absolute chaos, as long as instant gratification for the masses is satiated.

we don't need everyone. with todays technology, we don't need half of what our our forefathers needed.

you can't fight them toe to toe, but you can take their power. if money is a voice, steal their voice. the corrupt by your governments out from under you. robin hood their goods, block their ability to provide service. destroy means of production, and transportation of resources. only when the corrupt can no longer be heard by a politician can you get your country back.

this isn't something you have a lot of time on. the rise of AI is going to make their job much easier for them and a lot harder for you to do yours. they still require humans to do things for them, and that is the only advantage we still have.

They have got a whole lot more tech than we do.

more doesn't mean better. more doesn't even mean as good as. the nuke systems still run on old floppy disc drives crt monitors. they also still have that always fallible human element. as more action is taken against the corrupt, dissent within their ranks will occur, meaning more snowdens and such. not to mention what a little social engineering can get you these days hasn't changed much since beverly hills cop.

keep in mind, you don't even need tech to robin hood most of the corrupt corporations that abuse their wealth. you don't need any tech to remove merchandise from stores, or destroy means of production and transportation. just need a lot of like minded people. tech would definitely make it easier, and make you require less people, but simply having more or better tech isn't going to cut it for them as long as humans still have to use it.

Aren't these Interwebs supposed to enable stuff like that?

Sooo let's indigogo our militia to get thousands of rifles and rocket launchers, fly Snowden out here, break out every prisoner from prison in Cali and setup base inbetween the border of Mexico, and surround ourselves by EMP weapons. Central HQ will be led by Snowden and our attacks will be nonviolent hacking into all systems as well as automated MITM data obfuscation rendering the web useless unless we explicitly grant the data right of passage. We will steal NSA tapping devices and extract all the gold to forge a crown for Snowden to wear atop his rack mounted throne with an Occulus rift when we drop to defcon 1.

It seems like that is one thing which pretty much everyone can agree one. We can go back to in-fighting once the threat to everyone is dealt with.

It sounds so simple but all we really need to do is put our differences aside, our different beliefs, and just come together for the common goal that we are human and we want freedom

Theyve divided us into too many subgroups, Black Lives Matter, Trump, BernieBros, $15 fastfoot workers, free college,

It will be so hard to unite all of us 99%, I kid you not. But I will try!

Good luck getting anyone to belive half of this stuff, im not saying its not true, but making people believe all this is next to impossible

I propose that no political party has the ideal solution. Sometimes the best solution might be Republican. Other problems might best be solved with a Socialist solution. Others with a Democratic one. We need to ditch the black and white thinking patterns we've been trapped in and realize that problems are complex and solutions must be equally so.

How to get there? Revolution?

The digital revolution.

Only 33% of colonists supported the revolution.

There needs to be a public speaker for the cause, one that the people who see this corrupt change in society can get behind, who isn't trying to run for president.

and now we will see what the mass surveillance is really all about.

They have made a damn good job of making sure that is extremely difficult to do, but it can be done!

Yes sir you are absolutely correct.

I cant even get my team in overwatch to group up and push point b on anubis

For sure, the best way to foster togetherness is by calling everyone racists.

Did I miss something?

I was sarcastically talking about the left's way of unifying us by calling all white people racists.

Ahhhhh ok gotcha

Of course Military personal involved in the movement would help.

Agreed.

Out of everything this is the most important thing.

We all need to kongregate and come up with a coalition that spreads it's influence to the people. Start with local communities and spread outwards. Raise our children better and retake our education institutions. Plant seeds of change and give back to the those that have worked too hard.

If only there was some kind of interconnected net where people could contact each other...

That is why we do not go through the traditional social structure. THE SYSTEM IS BROKEN. The internet is where the revolution will be televised because it is harder to control than ever.

We need a website in which we can share our ideas intelligently and uncensored. We've seen it before in Egypt with the use of facebook. This corruption though, it's not just American. It's a global crisis. We need a GLOBAL INTERNET-BASED COMMUNITY that is decentralized, in which we can expose truths and make plans. Let's be honest, reddit is great as sort of humanity's working memory, but we need version 2.0. We need more organization. We need more focus. We ALL need to be able to see the issues that truly matter.

I'm building such a website, but I can't share it with you yet. Whether I build it or not though, it will be built, and we will come together outside of our governments awake.

Just remember that forgiveness and love are your two greatest weapons. They are truth serums. Through love and forgiveness we will rise together like bread. Violence only breeds violence. We've seen it over and over. We all know it in our hearts. Love your enemy and they will become your friend!

Not going to happen anytime soon. The economic climate and social structure has led to a deeply divided populace and those two things change very slowly.

Fuck you

Fuck you.

Fuckyou.gif (link not working)

Obviously two people at complete odds in their values cannot work together. The best thing would be to simply separate into two or more nations, divide the US into various states and let people choose where they want to go.

I'm not from the US, but can't you found a party which's main goal is to reform the government so it becomes a government for the people?

One prime point should be that a rich should not be able to have more decisive power in the legislative than than a poor one.

That'll be impossible. All sorts of political groups are against the US government. On this sub alone, nevermind the whole country, I see nationalist socialists and fascists getting into arguments with communists. I see Libertarians and liberals fight with anarchists and conservatives. It goes on and on. I personally have a problem with some parts of this sub. There is a lot of good content (it'll be even better when this fucking election is over), but a lot of poorly sourced theories created by total tinfoil hatters, racists, and others who seek to undermine this community with their outrageous, deliberately absurd ideas to discredit the good things on this sub. It's a huge problem. We need to address that and do something about it.

First thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers

It's gonna be hard to get all the thug black folk to not throw rocks and commit crimes during any movements to come.

why not point them in the right direction, perhaps provide transportation too. There were many addresses of people buying power in the last leak, should be pretty easy to do.

Link?

magnet:xt=urn:btih:ED9C54D8CE543F9A45D180FD58B4C56CF2A3FC1E

Pass: (GuCCif3r_2.0)

I think that is all correct. So fire up your favorite torrent client and grab some coffee.

Do you really think that there are only black people being thugs? FFS look at that guy that suckerpunched an old woman at a Trump rally. Thugs come in all colors.

NOBODY SAID "ONLY"

jesus you pedantic fuckwads

"Just look at that one white guy! See? Others do it too!" Yeah no shit. I could probably find a video of a fucking raccoon throwing rocks at a window. But blacks cause the majority of all crime in this country and have absolutely no desire to better their country since they're all drug dealers anyway.

That is the most egregiously offensive comment I've seen in weeks. Bravo.

I don't hate the color of their skin, I hate what they've done to this country. If they all were responsible and fucking paid attention to what's going wrong and actually tried to better themselves instead of sitting back and talking about how hard "life on the streets" is then this country would be doing a lot better.

WOW. Please do not speak to me again, you are dragging me back fifty years or so.

Okay you're right, everyone is exactly the same and it's impossible that one race can continue to do bad things because we live in a politically correct society now! I always forget how easy it is to just close your eyes and tell yourself that facts are irrelevant if they separate a race from the others. Life is good now (: carry on!

You are expressing yourself, freely. You have every right to do so. You speak with a grain of truth, even.

Impossible, when the people keeping us down control all media.

Impossible with that attitude

You need to stop being in denial and acknowledge reality in order to begin combating it...

You Americans don't know how lucky you are with that second amendment. Us Dutch folks got disarmed after the war, and we're just sitting ducks for the Them right now.

But I understand that this is also a frightening prospect, too. Many would die, many good people on both sides. I think it is of the utmost importance to get the good people on their side to defect.. There are many soldiers and police men who might sympathise more with the good cause than with the plutocrats living in theyr lofty palaces.

The combined efforts of the U.S. Army, Navy, Air Force and Marine Corp will never be overthrown by a bunch of people with assault rifles. So the American people are equally "sitting ducks".

But what if the soldiers side with the people with rifles? I think it can be possible, and to make it possible people need to be awoken.

It seems to be going our way, if I may be so overly optimistical.

It seems to be going our way, if I may be so overly optimistical.

Overly is definitely the right word.

Nothing will happen until people start going without food, water, and internet. Not until that point.

We have a citizen army, if the cause is universal and clearly outlined I would call it realistically possible

Former military here.

Think of how brainwashed the average person is in this country. Now insert them into a rah rah totalitarian institution that the ignorant praise them for being in and cultivates the idea that any that don't support the government is un-american.

The average soldier that isn't sent to his home town would fire on you no problem. You are a rebel and a threat to the american way of life after all, a home grown terrorist.

Exactly right. Dehumanize the enemy by making them "the other". The word terrorist does a great job of that. The idea that soldiers would all defect (and if I'm not mistaken they would face death for doing so if not a very long prison sentence) instead of firing on their countrymen is laughably naive.

It's never going to be "the American public is in an uprising! Kill them all!" It's going to be "group x is a terrorist threat, kill or capture them all and try to avoid civilian casualties". Once enough of these groups are absolutely decimated the motivated strength to unify more groups will be eviscerated. Anyone who thinks they're going to "take their country back" by stockpiling arms to use against the US military is a fucking idiot.

I agree with everything except the fact that all will to fight will be evicerated.

Look at the taliban, look at the Vietcong. Seeing your neighbors die is a powerful motivator. Drag it on long enough and I believe the will of the military would break first.

I never said all will to fight, I said the motivated strength to unify these groups into a single powerful and unified movement. The unity is what will be destroyed, and small groups fighting their own battles is completely worthless of the goal is to stop the government or the military.

Oh okay, that's a fair point. It would be a mess.

Think of all the little division we have, imagine people dying over all of it.

I think you're right but only when this hypothetical situation first starts.

Mowing down a group of 100 "rebels" is completely different than mowing down and bombing entire cities where tens of millions of people are on the streets protesting/rebelling.

Using the military against its citizens is pretty Unamerican and illegal.

While people often talk about how soldiers are taught to protect the constitution I really think they're taught to follow orders and not ask questions.

Do you know any soldiers? It doesn't matter what the army teaches them they will mostly side with the people

What about events like Kent State?

What about it

Soldiers fired on and killed four innocent unarmed people for protesting against their corrupt government and a war America should never have been involved in.

So...

So the soldiers are trained to, and usually do, side with their masters. I can't think of anytime in American history where soldiers sided with the people over the government.

Literally the parent of this comment : The Declaration of Independance. ..

i wasnt very clear so I understand the confusion but I meant since then. Personally I'd see that as rebeling against the British government. There might have been other times but I can't think of any.

Completely different. Multiple generations lived in America apart from normal British society so that they felt as British as you or I feel British. They were just fighting a foreign country that had control over them. It didn't feel like a civil war.

At first.

Some might but I believe the vast majority would side with the government. I mean these are the people that volunteered to go to war and protect the U.S. people and government.

There are AT LEAST 5-10 million gun owning Americans who would fight the govt if they tried to take their guns or basic necessities failed. That's quite a bit larger than our active and reserve military in terms of numbers (~2 million) The bigger factor is heavy weaponry but I don't see that being used without large portions of the military defecting. Idk where you are from but from my anecdotal experience, the people in the military that I know would not fire on us civilians. I think it all depends on how the conflict starts

If the choice is either follow orders or die. It's hard to say how many would risk defecting.

Worked pretty well for the Nazis. They convinced their soldiers to kill quite a few of their own.

Better find out which side the apache helicopters, tanks, and drones are on.

The people with rifles are terrorists. Pin a crime on them and send in the militarized police.

The military will attack the American people no problem. They are just brainwashed idiots.

Lets theorycraft a little. Les play upon the assumption that all of these conspiracys are correct and the government is in a worst case state.

So folks take to the streets with their guns against the government. The government calls it a riot/civil disobedience/whatever. Media follows suit of the most part. Gov. orders police and possibly national guard or whatever to contain this. They'll avoid 'civil war/rebellion' phrasing like the plague cause those might garner more support, not less. No one likes a riot except folks already rioting. Since we've already brought guns into the mix we can kind of assume the police will assume you intend on using them (presumably on the government officials you're targeting).

Assuming groups get to government buildings they'd either take hostages or shooting folks deemed guilty (or did you think civil war would be bloodless). Suffice to say this will be covered in great detail by the media. Not too many folks get warm fuzzy feelings about watching old people held at gunpoint (or worse). From that point on it would go poorly for the rebels.

A few pointless cogs in the machine get shot, statues unveiled a while later. No major players would get killed because..well they're rich and powerful, use your imagination.

I have no hope soldiers won't kill us. They've been brainwashed to kill terrorists so their commanders will tell them they are only attacking terrorists and then their brain shuts off.

Tell that to the Viet Cong. The man in the black pajamas devastated our armed forces with small arms and mortars.

5'6" farmers with pitch forks, OP.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weapons_of_the_Vietnam_War

They had more than just assault rifles.

I'm not talking about the north Vietnamese army. I'm talking about the Viet Cong. Poor farmers who used small arms, booby traps, the cover of darkness to do hit and run guerilla tactics, and psychological warfare against our troops. Those pheasants weren't flying around in jets and using tanks. they were feared more by our troops than anything. They were sneaky like a ghost in the night and wreaked havoc on our troops.

While a lot of this is very, very true we have to remember a few key elements here.

1) The Vietcong were fighting for their homeland. They wanted to be left the fuck alone. They were sick of French rule and viewed the invasion of American forces as just "more of the same". We, the common man, might align with those ideals, but so would any U.S. soldier.

2) The majority of U.S. forces were conscripted. They did not understand the point of the war and many thought that Johnson, Nixon, "Democracy", "The Domino Theory" etc. were the problems of politicians and governments, not them. They were more concerned with getting out of Vietnam alive than they were progressing Democratic ideals throughout Vietnam. If you haven't already, check out a book called "The Things They Carried" by Tim O'Brien. It sheds some brilliant light on the psyche of the American soldier in Vietnam.

3) Supplies. Where do you think The NVA and The Vietcong got those AK-47s and mortar rounds? Also, where do you think they got the education on how to use them? Vietnam was a proxy war in its finest form. The NVA was supplied by Russia. The Vietcong were supplied by the NVA. Same theory applies to Russia's involvement in Afghanistan. We gave them arms to fight against the Soviets. Who supplies the American people fighting for Freedom in times of War? Who comes to our aide? I highly doubt any country would touch us with a 10 foot pole, and I certainly doubt that any uprising by the American public would be looked upon as a way to capitalize by countries like Russia or China. Imagine the havoc that would come from street-by-street fighting. Army vs. population. Then imagine an invasion from another country coming in after all the destruction.

4) The common man. This is the biggest issue. Most people do not have the training, and, further more, most people are not in shape for some sort of conflict. This applies to physically, emotionally, or psychologically. We have been eating at the trough for far too long. We've gotten soft. All it would take is for the common man to turn on the news, see some people in a distant American city getting slaughtered by tanks and helicopters and they'd give up. I'm not talking about us, I'm talking about commoners. The people who love their beer and football. Who value their lives and are willing to sacrifice their "liberty for security". Sadly, those people "deserve neither".

If something were to happen it couldn't be like Vietnam. It would be quelled before it even gets off the ground. Technology is too intense and we are too monitored.

Truthfully, I think we are all fucked. But that's just me.

You make excellent points. Our situation wouldn't be the same as Vietnam. A majority of Americans have been made fat and stupid. Our culture is confused. Men are encouraged to be more soft, sensitive, and anti confrontational. Not alot of real men any more. I guess I'm kinda speaking for myself but if SHTF and all I had was small arms I would be implementing sneaky underhanded guerrilla tactics because that would be my best chance with the tools available. Wishful thinking at best but it's better than no plan at all.

The military is made up of you and me, they will not fire on their brothers and sisters.

If they are offered food, water, and other resources the masses will be fighting for in trade for their cooperation....they just might.

Bullshit, many are already foaming at the mouth to murder anyone who doesn't stand for the national anthem.

That's why it's so important to let people know that the corrupt in power are not standing for something even more important than the national anthem - the Constitution and laws.

But there's more who would murder the mouth-foaming murderers if they did do any national anthem murdering.

Maybe in la-la-land, but not in the real world as recorded history has proven over and over again.

Look at what happened May 4th, 1970 in Kent, Ohio.

You tell me if the military has a problem firing on civilians..

Spoken like someone who has no idea what military training is designed to do. It's about the total subjugation of the recruits personal will. Military training replaces family, friendly and basic human connections with an absolute loyalty the recruits platoon and the leadership that commands it.

Soldiers are taught that when orders are disobeyed or questioned, their brothers and sisters in arms die. This idea that soldiers are on the side of the average civilian is completely unfounded and quite frankly silly.

No it doesn't. I'm a veteran and it doesn't do those things. Sure you have camaraderie and you listen to orders but you are also taught about unlawful orders.

Boot Camp isn't some brainwashing, personality stripping experience. It's just basic training with physical punishment thrown in. That's about it. You don;t come out the other side an order following robot.

you listen to orders but you are also taught about unlawful orders.

I'm sure they are taught about them only so far as to instill any fear of disobeying them or blowing the whistle. There are many recent documented cases of soldiers following unlawful orders, have we already forgotten about this?.

Some will, but I agree, most will not turn on the citizens they are sworn to protect.

Conditioning > oaths, imo. A single soldier would have trouble firing into a crowd, but I doubt a whole battalion would hesitate for very long once the bullets started flying

Sure, some will stay, especially if promised promotions in the wake of those who will desert or refuse the unlawful orders.

Yeah just like the civil war amirite?

It's really not though. The original components are you and me but this is a total institution that strips identity in the name of the collective. Top that off with a heavy cultivation of an us vs them ethos against those that don't approve of their activities and you have a very large number that see the revolutionaries as a bunch of domestic terrorists that seek to destroy the American way of life.

They said the same thing about the colonists going against the full force of England.

But even more recently they've shown us time and time again they can't win an asymetrical war.

Vietnam, korea, the middle east..

Its not like they are going to bomb their own country because of some rebels.

Guerrilla warfare has proven to be effective, and every time someone is killed unjustly their brothers, sisters, cousins, parents (who werent sympathetic at first) takes their place.

Well most of our infantry is stationed abroad and the ones still here are mostly national guard and very rooted to the community.

There are only around 150000 active duty military deployed. Compare that to the fact that there are over 1 million active duty military personnel.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_deployments

Yeah a lot of them are writing research papers or doing accounting or repairing machinery.

I wouldn't say a lot are writing research papers but yes the majority aren't infantry. That is because it takes a lot to have a functioning army. Such as people to make sure everyone is getting paid, accounting, or driving and repairing the vehicles they use. Plus infantry isn't the only job that can cause harm I mean tankers are a whole different job for example. I guess what I'm trying to say is infantry isn't the biggest problem because you can just shoot them. But I would like to see some one with only weapons legal to buy take out a jet or a tank of a fucking battleship.

A war on the states by its own military will end up like Vietnam or war on terrorism bush period. You can't just bomb a sect with a couple planes. We learned that the hard way in Iraq. You can't just throw a bunch of tanks at people, you think improvised explosives were bad in Iraq.... Guess what war vets and defective military can do. This is such a silly comment I have no clue how else to make you feel stupid. Like you think the us had to worry about non-combatants in the Middle East guess what type of red tape shit storm they will have when they take action in their own fucking country "even if labeled domestic terrorist."

You're right. Hopefully our service members just aren't cunts.

Right, and if just 2 or 3% of gun owning Americans revolted they would outnumber the entire US military. Then add in any non gun owning Americans to the revolution and they vastly outnumber the military.

[deleted]

I'm quite sure that officers, who are in a position of decision-making responsibility, are going to feel differently to the rank-and-file. That's why when there's worry about a possible military coup, they go after the leadership.

That's why we won all those wars in the middle east.

Yes it can, and eventually will.

Vietnam happened, and the us fukin lost

There are enuff of us, the elite wouldnt be able to do shit, aside from nuking the whole planet lmao

The combined efforts of the US Army, Navy, and Air Force haven't been able to subjugate uneducated mountain peasants in Afghanistan.

Viietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq (II)

The only impressive thing about US military is its bloat

Yeah that's right I forgot our military was already based in those countries and had been for over 200 years. I mean it's not like they already had weapons and an organized resistance prior to us going there or anything. Those wars would be the exact same as a group based in the US trying to overthrow the government.

Are you kidding me?

There are only 1.3 million active duty in all the military branches. It's estimated that 300 million people own firearms. 300. Million. People. It's simple math as to which side would win. To say nothing about how the military would defect in droves if ordered to fire upon its own citizens.

I'm sure there would be large scale defections if something did happen to allow for U.S. Troops to operate against its citizens. My primary fear is the drone, we need ways to balance the field here more than anywhere.

The reason you as Dutch could see a revolution actually ever happening in America again is because you have a completely different society.

It's the same reason a lot of the more homogenous European countries have all the social programs they do.

You view the majority of your population as brethren. We do not in America. They have been dividing an conquering us for a while now. Unless that other person is also a middle income, African American, Republican just like you, you tend to view them as... "them" rather than us.

It is the biggest hurdle to real change in America. That and the fact quality of life is really good in comparison. When is the last time a high income per capita country had a real revolution or real change.

What we must do is stated quite clearly in our Declaration of Independence: " But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Trouble is that in today's connected world, before any mass movement gains traction it is infiltrated and/or destroyed.

Get to know your neighbors.

Trouble is that in today's connected world, before any mass movement gains traction it is infiltrated and/or destroyed.

Honestly, that's not even the biggest hurdle.

Before mass-movement-being-infiltrated can even become an issue, the fact that the vast majority of people are perfectly fine being presided over by a corrupt government (as long as their own lives are comfortable) needs to be overcome.

[deleted]

Thoreau was a smart dude, that's for sure.

And in my opinion that is how any revolution should start. Economic revolution. Cut off their funding.

No taxation without representation.

wouldnt do shit though

they sell bonds to chinese, get the money that way, show up to your house, throw you in jail and confiscate your entire net worth.

game over

in fact, they are recording everything everyone in this thread is saying (just like the rest of the internet), and whenever there's any trouble from the peasants they'll know exactly who thought what. and then they'll come for you

I wouldn't really be excited to see who replaces this government. I'd rather we have a constitutional convention to fix some things and maybe pass some state referendums on important issues. The main solutions I think that exist are:

• revising the standards as to what constitutes corruption and the evidence that must be presented to prove it (it's way too hard to prove right now, and we should also consider giving standing to any constituent of a corrupt politician to bring a lawsuit)

• reform elections so they no longer use first-past-the-post voting

• break up large media companies

Sorry, but the things you've mentioned will be bypassed in 20-30 years after you "fixed" them. As long as a company can make $1.01 by spending $1.00, then there will always be corruption.

If anything, there needs to be a separation between business and state. Government doesn't mess with business and business can't mess with government.

Then things will need to be fixed again in 20-30 years. I think that will end up being a lot more effective than hoping some overthrow of the government results in a better government. Besides in that new government, why wouldn't you ultimately end up with the same problems that need fixing in 20-30 years? Also, with a constitutional convention, you can completely change the constitution; it could be effectively the creation of a new government.

If anything, there needs to be a separation between business and state.

And this is the type of idea, if fleshed out and debated, could very well end up being the subject of a constitutional amendment.

there needs to be a separation between business and state.

It's been almost 250 years and we haven't figured out how to effectively separate church and state yet.

You could have a constitutional amendment that requires all officers of government (from the president down) to give up all of their personal property and cut ties with all sources of income, or have it all pooled into a common fund for their personal needs. Then you would have a situation where all that's left for them is to be "philosopher kings", instead of greedy businessmen.

It's extreme, but it gives you an idea of what could be done, if the will to do it is there.

Perhaps limit this to the supreme court.

That wouldn't work. Rich people today don't technically own anything. What they do is control things. For example, a CEO of a company doesn't own his private jet, but he's the one that gets to use it whenever he wants to take a vacation. It's the same with politicians. The president doesn't own the white house, but he gets to live there in the lap of luxury.

Especially the last point. Connell of the media is key to state and other across controlling public perception. However i think that times are changing and slowly more and more people are realizing whats happening.

Unfortunately people tend to require really momentous events to get them moving.

The line just before yours:

"...all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed."

Read that last part in Nic Cage's voice.

Riley, we're going to steal the declaration of independence

Same. I don't care what anyone says that movie is a classic

Glad I'm not the only one.

It is wrong to go this route before actually attempting to participate in the Congressional election system. If you haven't tried that avenue, it's no wonder it hasn't worked. Elections are this November and they're direct, popular votes. You can fire your representative with very little effort and replace them with a better one, but you HAVE to participate from the primary onward.

Until I see this genuinely attempted, it will still be the most sensible, effective course of action we have. You can tell me all you want that the system is too corrupt for our congressional votes to work, but that's a blanket assumption based on abusive systems like the electoral college.

There is no electoral college in Congressional elections. Go out there and vote your fucking mind. You can choose your candidate if you participate in the primaries, and we get a chance every two years to make this change. We just never, ever do. We continue to call the government as a whole corrupt while ignoring our Constitutionally guaranteed right to hand-pick our representatives. Wake. Up. We already have this power, and this is no time to take it for granted.

Ha. No. we have plenty of evidence that our votes are being manipulated. Look what happened to Bernie. Look at Kansas blocking that statistician from testifying about the 2012 election. Look at the DNC emails and NC in 2008.

They want us to think our votes count, but they don't.

I'm talking about Congressional elections. Bernie has been a senator for decades, because his constituents wanted him to be. There is no electoral college for Congressional elections. There is no person or group or party to stand in between your vote and the tally. I don't give a fuck if anybody votes for president, but vote for your congressperson. That one matters.

The electoral college has nothing to do with it. I'm talking about Diebold et al rigging the voting machines, which can happen in any election. You think DWS won fair and square?

Unfortunately I do. Not enough people who are against her got out and voted for someone else. That can not happen again.

You're putting the cart before the horse. People need to be aware before they have the motivation to participate. They're nowhere near angry enough. The ones who are really motivated in electoral politics are those who are benefiting from all the money and favors that are being passed around. And they're the problem.

People aren't aware of how things work in the business of government on a day-to-day basis. So they don't really understand what all these "representatives" are supposed to mean to them. They do understand individual issues however, which is why marijuana legalization has been going forward with voter initiatives behind them.

When a tipping point is reached, everything changes. Work toward that.

This is something I needed to hear. I always get fired up when people get angry but don't realize the power their congressional vote could have if they simply used it. We have to make people more aware of what that decision actually means to our daily lives, because it means a lot. These are the fools who make our laws!

There's always this guy that thinks we can vote our way out. How long as Feinstein been in office? Enough said.

I dont understand how people arent fucking riotting right now.

They're on Reddit, like you.

Well I'm in Canada. So.....

But you yourself know that Canada isn't standing alone. They are just as much under the thumb of the elite as the US is.

It is time, long since!

i just heard lately people get anxiety or triggered by just seeing an american flag. or this or that. if such things are already too hard to bear, i wonder how people can handle the pressures of throwing off a government.

people who are not like that are what, buried in vice, leisure and self indulgence. those who cant, are buried in debt that you wont have time to do anything else or risk not eating or being able to pay for your bills.

i do not think americans as a whole are capable of overthrowing its government. they would have already if they could. they dont, coz they cant. they already preempted you long ago, and are way ahead on moves.

So what's next.. because I agree with you

? Me, back off and just enjoy life until something that has never been in play before comes up maybe. you, i dont know. go to the beach maybe, have a bbq

word.

But is this considered treason? Sedition? At what point do we no longer assign value to the laws they've set?

pitchfork for president! torch for VP! make america your again!

I suggest you do this if Clinton wins.

Note the end, we have a duty as citizens.

Canada would back you.

2 reasons why. First off, we have one of the most transparent governments in the world so bribery would be difficult at best. Second, our two countries haven't really done a whole lot of good for each other outside of trade and if anything, the war in the middle east we got dragged into just kinda ticked everyone off.

So yeah at the very least, your Northern brothers wouldn't try to stop it. Not like we'd be able to anyways, I'd imagine.

While I welcome the support, sup with yo freedom of speech laws?

It's to prevent hate crimes/groups, like the KKK, from being legal and existing. Most western (European/North American) countries have this law. The US doesn't have it for more historical reasons, rather than political ones (i.e. the confederation wouldn't have it and the idea has stuck with the more southern states ever since).

To clarify, you're allowed to say 'I hate immigrants'. It becomes a crime when you have a serious public speech saying "we should round up all the Jews and put them in labor camps". I can totally see where, at a glance, these laws would be concerning to an American but they really don't affect 99% of peoples day-to-day lives at all. It exists purely as a counter to violent extremism of any kind.

This helps clear it up to me, thanks for the reply. I really don't know much about Canada, the corporations over here never seem to think we need to know next to nothing about our hat...er neighbors.

Yeah I can see how it'd come across like that if you weren't taught more about it. The nice thing about Canada is that unlike the US, we can afford to be a very transparent government. Which means, a LOT less government bullshit.

Then again you guys have patriotism like no other country I've ever been to, so high-fucking-five buddy!

Well yes, but HOW?

Good luck man. I know starting a rebellious revolutionary militia sounds enticing, but if I were a betting man I would take the U.S. army over loose-knit band of diabetics and gamers

The tree of liberty must be watered with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

No one gives a fuck about the 'Declaration of Independence' anymore :( There are no real patriots left.

It's not going to be easy.

Four boxes of liberty

There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo. Please use in that order.

So, first keep the pressure on the press/facebook and then try to vote them out, and if that doesn't work, keep using boxes I guess.

And then... we're going to steal the declaration of independance!

So revolution? Because am down like Charlie Brown

It always inspires a little awe in me when I read/hear our constitution and see how eloquently it was written.

Please check out the STEAL THIS portion of

Riggedit.com

To enrich your life for free.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State"..

First you need to understand that this is declaration of war.

Here is the problem I see with that, while many can agree the government is corrupt what they can't agree on is what a government should look like.

So we need millions of people willing to march on the government, as well as a vast majority of the military to side with us instead of shooting us dead in the street.

You know, funny thing about what you wrote here ? I say this all the time. Crazy.

This is my go-to quote when talking in person with people on the subject of government corruption. The frustrating part is that about 60% of people end up looking at me like a dog that has just been shown a card trick.

Honestly , we'd be fucked pretty quick. The US military has way better resources than the average redneck

Soooo

Good puck with that, with what ar-15s? The only thing that can be done is identifying the bullshit and educating others on the bullshit. We'd turn into Syria if what yoh're advocating happened. Not smart. The media has to be resisted, and the bogus political and social issues it broadcasts must be supressed. The constitution has either authorized such a government as ours or has been powerless to prevent it- lysander spooner.

Burn it all. Singly, or in groups.

Take away their monopoly on violence first. Then burn the place where they sit to "earn" their paycheck.

They will crawl under rocks and hide. Drag out the ringleaders, and hang them by their necks until they are dead. Elect sheriffs, and hold public elections, with paper ballots, and ink stains on thumbs, just like the third world nation we are.

Put the faith community in charge of community services, and require some number of hours of community service per work week from each individual as a condition for voting rights.

Start over. Don't nationalize anything that doesn't need to be nationalized. Sheriffs should regulate public utilities like waste water and water treatment facilities, with State plumbing boards in charge, and the IBEW in charge of power distribution. A temporary suspension of metering should be instituted, with a resumption from square one scheduled six, or twelve months in the future on an assigned date.

Put everything to a public vote, until Americans are sick of it. By then, things should be functioning on a baseline level.

Capitalism will win the day. Barter and trade in the hard, early days, and institute backed currency hard and fast. Free markets always win the day.

When people get that slap in the face and realize that when they try to dominate others, they might swing from a street light, watch everybody try to out-do each other with their "civic responsibility".

A new age of civility. Of course, things will be tough in a lot of places. I suspect it will be easy in Texas, among other places. Texans don't generally have a problem with taking responsibility, or looking out for the common good, or doing what is right, or being polite.

I suspect the lights will stay on in Texas, and probably Louisiana, and Colorado, and Arkansas. There would probably be a minimal disruption in services for producing members of society. The entitled population will migrate to other areas, or fall into step with the new civil society. Capitol cities, like Austin, will experience a sharp population decline, quickly, as a lot of the entrenched criminals will run away, and leave the Capitol building and a bunch of houses in west Austin vacant. Good fuckin riddance. Then, it will be back to work for the rest of us. There will be a lot of opportunities for a lot of disenfranchised people to step up, and take their place at the table. A new meritocracy. That's what we need.

My teacher told my class this in the 10th grade, in his way. It stuck and I appreciate this quote. It's our duty.

Yeah, so now who sets the date of the revolution and gets assassinated before then, causing the revolution to fall apart without leadership?

I'd go, but, uh, I got to make ends meet. The economy added 500,000 jobs last month, and I have three of them!

Haha, despotism. Maybe we should all stock up on guns, ammo, can goods, water filters, cast iron skillets, firewood, solar cells, and all that, right? Lmao, everything is blackwhite and upside down, I'd better discuss it on reddit until it's out of my system then go to work tomorrow.

Hear those screeching noises? Those are the black SUVs pulling up in front of your house.

Theyre taking away our ability to do so little by little... The pen is mighter than the sword until you have no sword...

Yet you just whisper the word 'secession' and everyone loses their minds.

Is it wrong that I read this in Heath Ledger's voice?

Well, you've got 1781 people behind you. What's the next steps?

But quietly we must go... it's not a revolution. Noone evinces anything, ever. It is noones guard for any future security.

Imma get that tattoo'd on my forehead

Roll out the guillotines?

take ur money out of the bank, thats when you see change

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJSehRlU34w&ab_channel=TEDxTalks

I hope you like hellfire missiles

Good luck fighting against the biggest millitary wih your rifles. This is exactly why the secon amendment is out dated. You wouldn't be able to overthrow the goverment without the military on your side or billions of dollars to compete

Lol u first tho

Is that you, Nic Cage?

I sure hope it comes to that.

They'll just keep it even more secret, and then clamp down on internet websites that leak information.

Back to the MSM being the only news source, and all of us blissfully unaware of what they're up to.

I think we should rally and establish our own replacement governance before we actually take them down physically.

After giving this quite a bit of thought myself and continuously deducing the right course of action. I came to the simple conclusion to do absolutely nothing. If things get bad, move. It makes complete sense that successful leaders need to be ruthless, and ruthlessness is not inherently moral or good. Understand as individuals we contain control but hold little power, where as in a group we gain power but lose the ability to control the group for long (using moral measures). In conclusion I believe humans are inherently corrupt and are to easily controlled by our primal needs and emotions which is in where lies the problem. Even if you fix it, were bound to go right back to being corrupt, look at history we kinda suck.

almost 5k upvotes but not on the r/conspiracy front page? not on the frontpage of reddit?

...we gotta steal the declaration of independence.

So what will you do?

Nothing will change bro.. Maybe maybe trumps not full of shit and he would go After some of these people but I highly doubt it... American demographics have changed so much that it's pure identity politics. This is how it works this is the multicultural shit hole that is now America.

I for one will upvoted this post. Beyond that I am out of ideas.

Your comment about upvoting the post enabled me to take the additional step of upvoting it as well as the OP... thank you for taking the first step, it's already snowballing.

If you think you are too small to make a difference, try sleeping with a mosquito. Dalai Lama XIV

Apples to Oranges but still a good one.

Is the Dalai Lama telling me to smash mosquitoes with my penis?

Probably not suggesting breath g precept number 1.

Finally, someone that would think I have a huge dick!

I've tried. Killed it tho.

Mosquitos make precept number one very hard to follow as a buddhist

AND MY AXE!

Haven't seen that one in a while.

Check out the largest grassroots anti-corruption organization that's trying to pass legislation to stop this legal bribery.

www.represent.us

Please sign up. They currently have 2 states (Washington state and South Dakota) with ballot initiatives trying to get passed.

https://np.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/52qcos/comment/d7mhy6j?st=1Z141Z3&sh=d4153640

Me too. We can do this, Reddit!

Few more upvoted and we will save the planet!

“Flash, I Love You! But We Only Have Fourteen Hours Left to Save the Earth!”

is the Like to Upvote ratio in our favour or should be post this on Facebook?

Who really knows :)

I am not very popular there and that's my own family mainly :/

<----- Petition to overthrow the government

Reddit_irl

What if we make an internet petition and sign it a bunch?

Same.. :/ I hate politics, but I could see how now is a good time for our generation and the younger generations to start learning. Then we might actually know how to respond.

Up voted

What do you do, like, get 50 or so people to show up to a city council meeting that typically only has a few dozen people, and assert authority, ask them to leave, and the sheriffs and deputies there to switch sides, or have a shootout to the last man, hopefully inspiring similar movements across the nation that are resolved more peacefully after the initial example is set?

I mean, how else could it actually play out or even begin? It shouldn't even have to be a war but it appears everyone is agreeing that the democratic avenues available no longer function to represent us in our grievances.

Protip: I may or may not be a paid or unpaid agent provocateur.

If only enough people could get interested in change às were sag interested in Pokemon Go in the early days it would be a start.

Educate/awaken others until we reach the inevitable tipping point.

I'm pretty sure most people are fully aware and understand that the entire system is corrupt.

But what now? What can any of us really do?

Mass labor strike seems like it would work, but most people would probably rather have a guaranteed way to pay rent and buy food than potentially throw away everything for a chance that something might change.

Taking up arms in any way isn't going to be popular either, for the reasons stated above, and also mostly everyone would be horrified by the reality of a violent uprising, even if they thought it sounded good in theory.

I legitimately can't imagine anything people would believe in, come together and fight for. I've thought there were some pretty huge catalysts in the past decade or so that would certainly be the tipping point for change, but they always seem to blow over in a few weeks or months.

Who says we have to fight them to beat them?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Our_Lady_of_Perpetual_Exemption

Start a religion. Make countering corruption the tenents of that faith.

• if you're imprisoned, God says you must receive a specific healthy diet, proper medical care and being held in solitary is an affront to God... Now for-profit prisons can't feed you the disgusting crap they feed inmates now, they have to treat your conditions/injuries and they can't throw you in solitary, which has been found to have an adverse affect on people's health.

That's one example and there's so many ways you can apply it and it will work as long as you don't push your luck and do something dumb like refuse to pay any and all taxes on religious grounds or say it's your religious right to own hand grenades, etc.

Churches are also tax exempt and donating to them is tax deductible. Instead of being like those assholes that take the donations so they can live like kings, you invest it back into the community. Hell, maybe you could even work it like a tax shelter, a bank account they can't touch. Or do like Scientology did and build massive wealth through real estate. Look at the shit they do, the government doesn't lay a finger on them. Now imagine having that power dedicated to enriching the lives of others in the community instead of one's self.

You don't have to fight in their wars, you can protect some of your money from taxation and if the corrupt government does something stupid that tanks the economy, the community is shielded from the downfall.

If it works well enough, you could even start spending some of that religious freedom to other countries in the world.

You should do it. I would definitely join that religion

Bring forth, the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch!

[deleted]

What's Waco?

Whatever happens, it'll be dismantled from within by government plants (just like Occupy Wall Street, Tea Party, etc). Other government organizations will spy on progress, too, and arrests or "random" searches would slow it down.

People want to survive and have stability in their lives, until the masses see their quality of life destroyed nothing dramatic will be done.

that's very true. sadly people are much more likely to come together out of fear or more importantly, hate, than love. the watchmen did a great job of articulating that very idea with doctor manhattan. hate brings the masses, peace brings a few hippies to electric forest.. sad af.

I disagree. Most people have the general idea that something is fishy, but relatively few in the US, for example, believe their government actually murdered thousands of Americans on 9/11. Step two is to make this common knowledge, along with other false flag ops (Oklahoma city, Kennedy assassination, for example). IMO, step three is to make everyone aware of the existence of sociopaths, and evidence that most of out "leaders" are sociopaths. Step four is to withdraw support as much as possible.

Only when mass society understands the problem and gets this far will be be able to see the way to really fixing the problem (as opposed to just replacing one batch of criminals with another.)

Actually there it's a very powerful and simple solution to our current corruption. Boycott a any company that lobbies.

Actually there it's a very powerful and simple solution to our current corruption. Boycott a any company that lobbies.

Oh, it's that simple...just never purchase any goods or base material to make any goods, of any description, since inevitably part of the chain of everything you know and see and touch has had someone lobby for some aspect of it.

How will you get on Reddit without a device that hasnt been involved with a lobbyist group?

Yeah that isn't going to work. Think of USA like Rome. There is a centralized power, but it cannot possibly extend and patrol multiple areas far off from D.C.

Small, and local power moves, strikes, civil damage, etc.. guerrilla tactics.

Methinks you've replied to the wrong one m8

Might be kinda tricky, some industries seem to hardly exist outside of the companies that lobby, and the alternatives are either impractical or more expensive.

Some hurdles:

• Petroleum

• Most major telecom companies

• Most major insurance providers and drug manufacturers

• Boeing / Lockheed Martin / Northrop Grumman (and many smaller companies that are tied into pretty much every form of transportation)

• Google / Amazon / Microsoft / Apple / (along with nearly every major tech or internet based company)

• Dow / P&G / other food corporations - Produce pretty much 90% of things that are on grocery store shelves that people use on a daily basis.

I just scraped the very top of the most prominent lobbying companies, but you could see how that could get a little hard to manage, even on a personal level. Damn near impossible to convince an average person to stop buying and using most of the products and services they've depended on for a long time.

Boycott any company that lobbies.

Labor unions and environmental groups lobby the government, should we boycott them as well?

They are not. Most still have their head very much in the sand.

The problem with that is you're painted a nut job, conspiracy fruit. Like whenever someone good runs for office, the media (puppets of the elite) run them through the ringer make them look old, feeble or crazy or all three.

This is the most frustrating part. I look like a nut job because most people only get thier news from televised media... That's already bought out. The revolution will not be televised. People are completely in the dark because they think if it's not on TV, then it must not be important. They don't trust sources on the internet which are legitimate, instead trusting a heavily biased media!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGaoXAwl9kw The revolution, my brothas, will NOT be Televised!

Where is the best source for no Bullshit news?

Live feeds.

But I'd say the best thing to do is take in an extremely wide range of news sources and be highly critical of every single one of them. You can't depend on anyone to interpret the world for you.

Collect as much info as you can, and process it critically.

Which feeds are most reliable and navigable for someone looking to develop a personal tickler? Are there apps out there that help with this? How do you determine the sources you consider reliable within the media?

I like hagman and hagman personally

I don't consider any source "Reliable" in the way you want it to be.. unless it is a live feed... Anything except a live feed (and even live feeds in some cases) has someone interpreting the news for you.

At the same time, every news source is "reliable" in the sense that they are telling you information, you just have to understand how what that information actually is by putting the source into context.

Several options:

Progressive Radio Nework :: in particular I enjoy Gary Null's show, every day 12-1pm EST.

http://www.truthdig.com/

https://www.corbettreport.com/

http://www.zerohedge.com/

http://www.truth-out.org/

Economic Update with Richard Wolff

The Trends Journal w Gerald Celente

Guns and Butter

The problem with that is you're painted a nut job, conspiracy fruit.

Often for good reason. In this thread I see a lot of delusional people that are just going to get themselves killed real quick. The US hasn't even gotten to the point where there are major mass protests. Most people are unhappy with what's going on but it's not bad enough to just start bloodshed like a lot of the people in this thread would love to see.

Why does this sound very familiar and topical?

That's a fantasy.

Most people know governments are corrupt, and they don't care.

Contrary to the OP, a few aren't living like gods off the labor of 300 million slaves. Most people are living fairly comfortably. If you can put food on the table and have vacations and leisure time why would you disrupt that? It'll take starving desperate people to be motivated enough to fight back. Right now we are far from that.

Not really, if you have to spend all day to get food you won't have time to plan other things.

As long as they can eat their Mcdonald's and watch TV, who cares right?

Huxley was right again!

Bread and Circuses

McDonald's AND watch TV? What, did we get a bonus or something?

As long as people think minorities are a bigger problem than the greed of the %1 I don't care.

The greed of the 1% is the origin of the problem, but its us lower class who are the problem as far as banding together to make a change.

As long as some of us "lower class" people see other as the problem that will never happen.

bull shit they don't care, they've just been beaten down their whole life and are cynical or think there's nothing they can do... or just think nobody else cares.

When you care about something you act, don't you?

or are too scared to do anything.

why risk your job and freedom when you have kids to raise, a mortgage, etc?

easier to kick back and watch the Pittsburgh steelers

bread and circuses.

Exactly. Survival and entertainment.

and the unspoken knowledge that most of us would be vulnerable to the same things we complain about, should we be in that position.

Unfortunately all of the dis-info is extremely difficult to cypher.

We need to stop Infowars then.

This plan offers the minimum threat of violence, death, and suffering.

If / when a tipping point is reached, there's nothing the psychopathic elite can do about it. The military won't help them. They can't force the people running the utilities to shut off people's water and electricity. They just simply, suddenly, lose.

How can we achieve this with so much of the population that intentionally ignores warning signs of this?

I'm speaking from the point of trying just to explain what Hillz did wrong to my parents and grandparents. And they all just say "well people have done it before so she didn't do anything wrong".

I'm asking honestly, I want to know how to open their eyes. Anyone have any tips? I feel the less tech savvy generations of America are the people who get baited by the msm stories and don't actually "do their own research"( -hilly)

Calling bullshit works wonders on Reddit and social media. It's why this whole site does it.

Gawker showed Hulk Hogan but not J-Law! Hypocrites.

Trump said this. Clinton said this. Bernie is a saint!

Educating, explaining, telling people it's wrong doesn't really help anyone who is over 25. We're aware. We are complicit and we make our peace with it.

Why? I mean, all you need to do is open your eyes about news. Or see why a traffic ticket costs 8x what it should. Or that it's impossible to prove innocence of malfeasance by cops unless there's a camera. Or that our health care is a fucking joke for a first world country.

Yeah, but why don't we change? Because what is there to change to?

The government is corrupt. So, ok, is the solution to rip everyone out and start from point 0? Even if that could be accomplished, everything is partisan, so we'd wind up with the same root issues of binary choices.

It's a revolution or a slow evolution. And it's solutions, new ideas people can get understand, get behind, and support without facing an upheaval of their life that needs to be there. Not to produce change, because we're all willing. But to promote the change and improvement in lives, a short solution needs to be waiting.

It's all over now. These leaks. It's blatant. At some point mist people know about the problem but are too content with life to disrupt the system anyway.

Meh that tipping point = we'll revert back to cave man era days. Or go extinct mysteriously.

Awaken = more new age mumbo jumbo.

I'm sure there'll be a tipping point to capitalism/materialism. You can only buy sooo much cheap useless made in china products and still be jealous of what your neighbor has... These consumerism holidays, make it much worse.

As long as the masses are fed and entertained nothing is going to change.

Why not run for office?

when is that.

Normal, humble people don't have the thought in their head that they should decide how everyone else lives. Normal people don't have a hole that cannot be filled no matter how much money/power they achieve. Normal people have a conscience.

The people who make it to the top of the of the government/corporate pyramid (essentially the same thing these days) are different. They possess high levels of narcissism to fully believe that they should be the ones to decide the policies that govern the lives of others. Being a millionaire or even a billionaire does not satisfy them. Being in a position of high authority does not satisfy them. To make it to the top you have to be near sociopathic, able to act without any sense of remorse.

The top of the top are extremely intelligent to boot. They've built a near perfect machine to achieve their control and practically have unlimited resources to perpetuate it. The masses are dumbed down, have the attention span of a kitten, and still rely on TV news talking heads to form their interpretation of the world around them. Until humanity wakes up in much larger numbers we are at their mercy. Do your best to enjoy life and stock up on popcorn to watch shit happen. IMO we're at least a few generations away from the type of change that most of us want.

There's room at the top they're telling you still,

But first you must learn how to smile as you kill,

If you want to be like the folks on the hill.

john lennon right?

Yep.

gayy but ok lol.

They hate you if you're clever,

And they despise a fool.

Working class hero

Something to be.

Applicable username

Was wondering if someone would catch that.

I think you need to be careful with some of these words; There's a crucial distinction between talking about narcissism, sociopathy, etc. ( which are objective, observable, afflictions of the mind ), and making statements such as "they are different", "they are not normal", "they are not like us".

I tend to agree with George Carlin here when he states that politicians come from the same stock as the 'ordinary people'. By claiming otherwise you are basically creating a scapegoat. "If only we could get rid of them!". But that's not it. There's no convenient "us vs. them" angle to this. It's systemic. Until you address the root causes, the environmental factors from which the politicians emerge, it's never going to change.

The root cause is human nature. Do you want to fundamentally change the very thing that put humans at the top of the food chain?

We have no idea what objective, unadulterated and non-culturally/economically-influenced "human nature" truly is.

This is because practically every human has grown up within the systems we have as they exist now and in the past. Certainly if we're making conclusions about human nature based on the narrow sample (both temporally and population-wise) of how Americans behave, there's no way we'll get an objective picture of human nature.

Of course human nature seems to be greedy and ruthless and paranoid and violent and ignorant etc etc if you look at a bunch of humans raised in a sick culture that values such things (or, historically a bunch of humans raised in an environment of needing to constantly fight for survival).

That's the real problem actually, that capitalism and our whole system and society reward sociopathic behavior. The more dishonest and wealth-hoarding and non-empathetic you are, the more rewards you reap in this society. It's true. Arguably those who provide the least good for humanity get the highest rewards of power and money... Sports stars, CEOs, celebrities, Wall St. guys, high level politicians...hell even on the small scale, bureaucratic middle management types get rewarded more than those who do the actual work, in most industries.

Imagine what "human nature" might look like if we instead rewarded philanthropy and empathy and real concrete contribution to the good of society. Imagine if companies promoted the most honest and selfless employees, instead of the most backstabbing and self-interested. Give someone else credit for your project, you get the selflessness award and a promotion! Volunteer the most hours in your community, you don't have to pay taxes next year!

If we ever actually got to see how humanity would react to living under a system such as that, there'd probably be people claiming left and right how it's "human nature" to share and be kind etc.

Human nature at any given moment is more like a bunch of positive and negative feedback loops than a set objective thing... a reflection of the dynamic between humanity and our systems... It's kind of like how if horses had gods, the gods would be horses.

I disagree. Humans seek peak efficiency and that's advantageous to sociopaths.

If that's true, we're doing a pretty shit job of getting to peak efficiency... Not sure I follow.

Only sociopaths will let efficiency be above morals giving them the advantage; the rest only drag them down. ;)

The "letting" is what I'm curious about. Who is letting what happen exactly, you know? Why are The Rest letting it play out like that? Do they even have any influence whatsoever?

And are you saying there's a small percentage of sociopathic individuals who rise to the top of a sociopathic system? Or is everyone kinda sociopathic deep down?

Sociopathy to me is on a scale of where you're willing to put your well being above others', which can be to the degree of complete disregard. These people took free market attempts (which completely rely on goodwill) and corrupted them for self enrichment and security over their control.

Absolutely. So why do we disagree then?

What's good for the most amount of people is peak efficiency. This global capitalist system is anything but efficient. It's massively wasteful and massively destructive

If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, every day would be christmas.

Things are the way they are because thats how most humans want them.

Christmas All Day Every Day, I'm for it at this point.

Not sure how you anyone can reasonably believe "most" people are loving how life on Earth is these days. I feel like there's a whole bunch of violence, misery, oppression and extreme poverty all over the place.

What kind of people would want things to be "the way they are" with all that included?

I already did my shift this week debating this "human nature" argument.

I trying to find a way to say this that doesn't sound condescending, cause I really don't mean it that way, but I encourage you to do some actual research on this topic. Surely if it's true then there's been some solid science done over the last century to prove it, right?

You're arguing semantics. Bottom line, the expectation is that humans go against their primal instincts or "human nature".

I really don't think I am, but, I'm sorry, what are you referring to with "the expectation"?

Humans do what humans do because they are humans.

And humans do what humans do because they are apes.

So we need to figure out ape nature to understand human nature.

Pretty much like this

Except with a lot less acrobatics and millions of apes sitting on either side.

The pols are employees of the real power, the CEOs of the corporations.

Right, and that probably is the truth, but in just stating that we're left with the supposition that "if only we could get people in who would refuse to be bought." or something along those lines, which I completely disagree with. It's not people, it's systemic.

The people who are in control do not want to give up control. They want MORE power.

I'm sorry, but in what way is that a response to what I said?

Many people have argued that the successful controllers are different..

The first line of the website you linked me to:

Throughout history, psychopaths, sociopaths, narcissists, and assorted antisocial-personality-disordered individuals have ruled societies.

These are the "objective, observable, afflictions of the mind" that I mentioned. At no point in this site does the author cross over into the territory of unqualified "they're different from us" sort of statements.

honestly man, Don't waste other people's time like this.

More and more people are becoming aware that psychopathy is real, and that the system is setup for psychopaths to get to the top.

Who is contesting that psychopathy is real? and how is any of what you're saying a response to anything that I've said?

I got the impression from what you wrote that you thought that psychopathic traits were in everyone, with equal potential. They're not. Some people have a greater potential for psychopathy.

It's probably me misunderstanding what you wrote. Sorry. In kind of a hurry.

Well actually, I wouldn't say that everybody has psychopathic traits, but that we are all equally vulnerable to develop any sort of mental illness? Yes, absolutely we are.

if as you say "Some people have a greater potential for psychopathy" than you need to back that up with medical evidence. Like, are you talking about some gene or kind of birth defect? than you need to specify what that is, and to link that to the individuals we are discussing.

The idea that we could tear down the government and rebuild something that wasn't equally corrupt in some way is idiotic anyway. Every time a regime changes, it's not long before things are back to 'normal,' with public money siphoned, wars perpetuated and environments destroyed. Best to just watch it all come down on its own.

actually, it is usually better to have a 'controlled demolition' as in bringing it down yourself to ensure minimal collateral damage. if we let this go someone is starting world war 3, either on accident or on purpose. it's time we take responsibility and take the money from the corrupt that would use it to buy our governments. we can keep our government if the corrupt aren't buying them. democracy is a great system until money is more important than the votes.

It's just so stupid, to me, that adults believe other adults need to tell them how to live their lives. Having a president/government to GUIDE our people is one thing, but we are so far beyond having a guide. We have assholes telling us what we can and can't do. Meanwhile they are untouchable...

Can [more] people please wake up now?

Let us remember that The Bill of Rights, and in fact the Constitution generally, does not and cannot grant "rights" because the government never had any rights to grant to anyone else.

You cannot give, grant or even sell that which you do not first lawfully and properly possess. Any attempt to do so is fraud (at best.)

original

So, if I don't have the right to kidnap you and throw you into a cage because I don't like the drugs you take, you don't have the right to do that to me, either. Nor can you grant this "right" to someone else, (like, say, a "government"), since you cannot give what you don't own.

One of these days a light will go off in those numbskull's heads, and they'll be like "oh, now I get it!"

I've worked for two very large corporations. One a tech company and the other a food production corp. I used to think that our main problem is the wealthy and powerful. After years of being in the workforce I can tell you that there are plenty of average wage individuals that are sociopathic and/or narcissistic. Passive aggressive tactics are a daily thing with many people as well. It's frustrating for some of us that are able to work as team players, respect one another, and be honest people. Just look at what goes on here in the forum. Look how people treat one another. I'm saying that while the general population is being treated as glorified slaves by the elite, the general population has plenty of blame for the horrible treatment of fellow citizens and society.

Who was it that said a good politician/leader doesn't want to be that? It's interesting, cause that's usually the case, so much so that the roles are filled with the corrupt and selfish.

thank-you. Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that gets whats happened.

I agree with the end, we're either too late or too early. The biggest fear I have is that with all of this NSA spying and AI that they will only get better at controlling the population.

The US has the oldest government in the world bow. Every single other country has had its government restructured since the creation of the United States. No Constitution writer expected it to last this long. I think it's time we start over.

you have to play the game to change it....and then you end up part of what you orginally tried fighting.

I think another problem is that most people are doing "okay" and don't realize where we could be with the technology we have at hand. They think it just has to be the way it is now to maintain a halfway decent life and politicians do everything they can to keep that thought alive. They do so openly, claiming to do it in order to keep the motivation to go to work alive, which in turn helps the economy.

Have you ever actually lived under a repressive regime? The fact that you can post on Reddit alone is proof were not living in this 1984 society /r/conspiracy would have you believe. Your data isn't being tracked within the continental US. Your senators aren't all corrupt assholes, at least for my state - go Bernie! The government can't make everyone happy all the time. Look at this though, poverty is on the decline and middle class wages are growing! This is good, this is progress. Maybe it's not that "normal" people don't think about how to govern others, more normal people leave those decisions to elected officials we pay to make these decisions. As a single person your strongest tool is the power to vote. If you're not happy with the current state of affairs, find someone who represents your beliefs and campaign for them. Something to remember though is the majority rules, so you won't always get your way. Personally I'd hate working in the gov, but I still want my ideas heard. Your vote is your voice, use it.

Here is something I saw on 4chan yesterday that someone screen capped. Haven't been unlazy enough to do some research on parts of it yet, but it's kind of relevant to your post.

Holy shit, please post this onto this sub. That was extremely accurate, and I learned something new about the Ukraine ordeal.

Did it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/52sxvx/world_wide_conspiracy_from_anons_view/

Aight I'll do it.

This is fucking gold. Knew most of these discrete factoids already but I love how this lays them all out logically.

Yeah, it's one thing knowing a lot of these on their own, but it is really nice seeing them placed out like this. I don't think it's a perfect representation of exactly everything involved in this situation, but it is definitely a great "scratching the surface" kind of deal for anyone who is bad at connecting the dots.

Someone made an anonymous video out of it.

Clicked on it so it's in my youtube history. Will watch when I wake up, thanks man.

You are most welcome!

Currency wars is a very interesting point of view. But as wars are concerned, it's not limited to it, defending Israel is part of the subject too as seen in Hillary's emails.

It's all true. Check out the book 666 not sure if it's in English though Anywat all true

A lie in the first sentence.

The gold standard was dropped in the wake of the great depression in the 1930s.

So can't get the first fact right you can pretty much discount the rest.

Google gold standard npr planet money for more info.

So can't get the first fact right you can pretty much discount the rest.

Idk about that, no one's perfect.

annnnnnnnnnnnnnnd no proof at all, 0, nil, none.

Yeah, I haven't researched the points yet to get my own opinion formed on it all, but it's definitely worth looking into.

We can easily fall into a nasty "revolution" easily crushed by the powers that be, or easily replaced by an even worse authoritarian "revolutionary" government (the US experiment is NOT immune to so many similar outcomes throughout history).

We must begin with a well formulated END in mind: an inclusive society that is truly representative, an economy that is transparent and incorruptible by cartels, and a society that values human life/principles of goodness over the parasitic accumulation of resources by the few.

Only AFTER we have created a grand vision for the new America, can we begin to march towards it. Blind violence and/or protesting can be easily squashed by those hellbent on holding on to power.

We need to enumerate a 2016 new Bill of Rights and Constitution that is for the people, and not for the highest bidders.

I have thought about this a lot, and I think the only end that makes sense is a collection of states that have more power. We are NOT a homogenous people - you can see that in how polarized everyone is now with the election. We can never have one government that makes everyone happy - so we should return the original plan of a federated collection of States - where the states have the majority of the power. You want a liberal socialist government? Go move to that state that agrees with you. You want the conservative religious population around you? Go there. Right now we're trying to do too much with a federal government that cannot possible end well. Everyone is just getting angry.

I'm currently fascinated by Alexis de Tocqueville, who wrote Democracy in America from the early 1800's. Surprisingly, what he said has culminated in 2016 with our present situation:

“Society will develop a new kind of servitude which covers the surface of society with a network of complicated rules, through which the most original minds and the most energetic characters cannot penetrate. It does not tyrannise but it compresses, enervates, extinguishes, and stupefies a people, till each nation is reduced to nothing better than a flock of timid and industrious animals, of which the government is the shepherd.”

― Alexis de Tocqueville

His book is a treasure trove that I have to keep digging through, but the bad news is that the corruption we have has been a constant throughout the history of man.

de Tocqueville recently came up in a Wilderness class I'm taking. His writings about the future of the American environment are as prophetic as what you just provided. When I get home I will provide a quote. Powerful stuff.

RemindYou!

The federal government was never meant to be such a sprawling beauracratic monstrosity, the US was called "the great experiment" because of the concept you describe. Separate states, bound together only for the purpose of collective safety against outside influence.

But that dream died during the civil war.

get rid of the federal government.

Right now we're trying to do too much with a federal government that cannot possible end well.

"We" are!? Remember who your audience is. This is /r/conspiracy, and quite a few readers here know that the US (inc.) is engaged in carrying out plans which "we" were never part of. On this sub you'll find people bandying about terms like "Zio-Masonic", or "Anglo-Zionist", or "NWO". I've read about many plans for America, which involve the US (inc.), and not the states or the people.

We could be peaceful, but tptb would not be. As proven by even the most menial of protests being pushed against by a militarized police.

we shouldn't be the one to shoot first. you can take from the corrupt and give to the needy without taking life in the process if you are creative enough. defend yourself by all means, but remember the people you kill are more than likely victims of the system just as much as you are.

You can be as peaceful as you want but if you decide to not pay taxes or try to grow your own food or use your own power then eventually men with guns are coming after you.

I posted this 5 hours late and it's all the way down there but getting upvotes. I think this addresses the formulated END problem that plagued Occupy the last go round.

Restart Occupy Wall St., but this time partner with the tea party nuts on declared issues.

That way we get Occupy with armed guards and if they really want to shut it down they can go through the 2nd Amendment guys first.

This solves everyone's issues. The socio-anarcho left can do their crust punk squatting but this time with an agreed to agenda with the tea party.

The tea party can parade around and display their 2nd amendment rights and fancy guns with a purpose other than pissing off cops.

Occupy/Tea coalition goals could be simple; stuff like "Bodycams on all Cops." "Lowering lower/middle class taxation, raising corporate taxes." "Overturning Citizens United."

Keep it simple. There's no longer any need for those ridiculous circle jerk occupy meetings I used to attend where no one is in charge and everything gets muddied by trying to honor every person's feelings.

Keep it simple. Occupy. Tea party armed guards.

How's that?

We must begin with a well formulated END in mind

Truth. Most revolutions end up just exchanging one group of oligarchs with another. The power-vacuum is always filled.

you know what replaces democracies 90% of the time?

Dictatorships.

Lol

Prouhdonian Mutualism

Prouhdonian Mutualism

This, time banks, local currencies, worker co-ops, micro-economies functioning as separate interdependent entities... I think these are all part of our future post-corporate fascism world. Let's hope we make it that far...

Establish a communist government.

Or a strong capitalistic democracy with a knowledgeable and alert (active) electorate whose guiding principle is happiness, fairness, AND valuing life in all its forms.

true freedom is not possible under capitalism.

Unfortunately we are a planet of predators and prey, no matter if you believe in the "goodness" of people. A free-for-all system will be corrupted by the strong against the weak, and a few psychopaths will always try to accumulate resources for themselves no matter the price.

1776 their shit 🔫

Good luck bringing guns to a UFO fight.

They took our guns 🔫, need more ⚔️🗡💣🔨⚙️🔪

Line them up against the wall

💉

^{against the wall}

[removed]

No racial slurs. First and only warning.

sorry, it was a Pink Floyd lyric

My apologies.

I can vouch for phoenix, it was pink floyd lyrics

What are we going to accomplish with water guns?

Yeah! Get them with the water pistols!

really saddening to read your comment on iOS 10. some sissy movement convinced Apple to get rid of the gun emoji, so they replaced it with a water pistol.

Lmao

I think we just need to remove the 666 part, and it will be ok. Might need a little tweak, but basically ok.

Wat

1110 their shit ⚔️

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure"

Jefferson, for those wondering.

You first.

Look at what the Russian people did countless times to their tyrant leaders. Let's get out the goddamn pitchforks and torches

The Bolsheviks were far more tyrannical then the Tsar was. The Russian people were conned.

Going in unprepared with pitchforks and torches means that ambitious people with better funding and plans will simply co-opt your "revolution" and likely put something even worse in place

Popular uprising against the government.

OK now give a serious answer.

Cause I doubt anyone here on reddit is going to be doing any uprising. They currently are on a computer, using internet, have electricity, water, food, a home and probably enjoy a relatively decent life.

You going to go protest in the streets real quick now? Nah.

[deleted]

Just because we don't live in extreme poverty doesn't mean it couldn't be better man

So you're heading out today to go gather your friends and protest?

Congrats on you for being such a person to sacrifice for the people. I envy you.

You are doing that right? You're not lying to me. Or are you going to admit that you live comfy and actually don't fucking care.

Well no. I'm not sacrificing what I have sorry

Maybe a lot of users here aren't living in extream poverty, but that doesn't mean that they can't see it on a day to day. How humans have lost their humanity. I don't have a good answer on what to do, but I believe that the value of humanity is returning to the masses.

There is one ongoing right now, it's called Trump 2016

Like the one that led directly to the situation we are now in?

Are you referring to 1776?? Cmon man, every so many years, things go to shit. It's impossible for things to remain perfect, there will be bumps but it's our responsibility to ensure that these bumps don't become mountains or plateaus.

Start taking them to court

You should watch the whole video for context, but basically. Get off your asses and start acting. It's not as hard to take people in power to court as you think.

Court and Lawyers cost money. We don't have money, not the kind of money it takes to do what your saying.

I agree there are a lot of hurdles. I'm not clued up on law myself and you would need to have at least some insight.

But, if someone with more experience or the time to do a proper investigation was to pick a single point of clear law breaking, and compiled enough evidence to present a good case; if it was high profile enough, there are maybe some possibilities to approach the money hurdle like crowd funding.

The point I'm trying to make I guess is that taking a high profile person to court is no different than taking your neighbour. It may just be much more work. As long as what you are saying in your case is true, anyone can learn as they go and eventually compile a good enough collection of evidence and knowledge.

I just thought this video rang out as one possible option.

There is no doubt there is corruption in the courts. But, even having your case thrown out or not heard might be enough to spread the word and enlighten more people.

I understand your optimism, but the courts are just as corrupt. If you think the media would touch a case like this with a ten foot pole, you only have to look back on their coverage of the DNC email leak, the clinton email fiasco, and this one. There's no coverage, it's all hushed up and whitewashed.

There should be a site like kickstart except we just all donate to fund a lawyer to take down a government official one at a time

heh.. how long before that becomes illegal.

As if the court's aren't corrupt as well. This would not work.

Have you tried it? if you make it as public as you can at the same time, and enough people chime in, you have a chance.

Edit: Ahhh. The down votes from the armchair warrior. Well played, sir. That'll teach me!

Seriously, "What's stopping you?". You shouldn't focus on a defeatist attitude, and if you can't answer that question without at least trying, go do it. Or at least investigate it.

Granted, it would be a TON of work, research etc. But, then the question was.. "WTF do we DO now?" Sitting at your computer dismissing a good avenue of action, simply because you think all courts are corrupt isn't acting. It's simply expressing a negative attitude.

Even if you are not given the time of day, your case is not heard or you meet a complete brick wall, your still doing something; and believe it or not, it still has an impact. Sitting at your computer dismissing good idea's doesn't.

In that video (if you watch it all for the context) he's talking about taking Obama to court as well, not just anyone.

There are tons of people that don't have the time, energy, resources or could even be bothered to do it and that's fine. But, you don't have to be one of them.

it has been tried. no one went to jail when the housing bubble popped, no one is going to jail for the recent wells fargo fiasco. no one was arrested for oil rig incident in the gulf. hillary isn't going to jail for anything she did. stop using the corrupt system to try and fix the corrupt system. they have a word for people that do the same thing over and over and expect a different result.

[deleted]

It would be like trying to change a Mexican cartel by taking them to court, where the judges are also cartel members.

People don't freely vote on the leaders of Mexican cartels.

If you don't have enough people willing to stand with you to overcome the two party paradigm, you don't have enough people to stage a bloody insurrection. It really is that simple.

[deleted]

Besides only ~3-10% of the population fought in the US Independence war.

Cool, so if the US government decides to crack down on you with soldiers sent from Europe on wooden ships, you'll be all set.

From my experience criminal matters need to be referred to court by the U. S. Attorney and we recently got kicked in the teeth with one of those attempts.

Tbh, I didn't down vote you at all. The government basically has unlimited money and resources, normal people have no way of competing with that, its a losing battle for sure. And why would you expect another corrupt element of a completely corrupt apparatus to fix things, it will not happen, sorry.

court is part of the corrupt system. you won't be getting justice there if it is the rich you intend to put away.

Sounds like a good way to get suicided.

Horde money, amass guns, buy some land, build a bunker.

So, be just like them. That ought to work out great.

Lol horde money. What good will that do for you when cash has no more perceived value? Use the money as wisely as possible before then.

You could say the same about anything. Telling people not to save their money because one day it might be worth nothing is horrible advice.

use the money as wisely as possible by then

The wisest thing you can do with it is put it in the bank. As long as the world is trading in petrodollars we won't see massive inflation. If you think the world won't be trading in petrodollars in the near future look into what happened to the last person who wanted to rival it (Gaddafi).

...you're an idiot for missing the point entirely.

Horde their IOU debt notes, amass guns before they are illegal, rent imminent domain land, build a bunker to code and pay taxes on it.

Guys, in this context, it's 'hoard.'

I totally love your point and agree with it, however...

I probably would still wanna build a bunker to code regardless....

Build a bunker? I take it you aren't familiar with the military's tactic of fixing the enemy in place and then calling in air and artillery support.

Eh, just need to go deeper.

AND THE BUNKER JUST GOT 10 FEET DEEPER!

Lol!

Basically become your own governor then.

Own your own

this doesn't get your country back. this doesn't even protect you from current military force, let alone what might crop up in the next 5 years, or whatever secret black site stuff they are working on.

It's literally time to replace corrupted minds with service orientated systems that serve the people.

This is why bitcoin was created and what has spawned a blockchain revolution. Decentralized technology that has the power to create decentralized governance around the world. The solution is here.

Decentralized technologies have the potential to make the majority of government functions obsolete.

For example, how is the government going to enforce gun control when a significant part of the population can print one in their garage?

Even if no one can print a gun from a 3d printer for whatever reason, guns aren't even hard to make.

It's just that people keep on talking off with the solution.

Complain on the internet.

Door doot

True. It helps reach alot of people.

Restart Occupy Wall St., but this time partner with the tea party nuts on declared issues.

That way we get Occupy with armed guards and if they really want to shut it down they can go through the 2nd Amendment guys first.

This solves everyone's issues. The socio-anarcho left can do their crust punk squatting but this time with an agreed to agenda with the tea party.

The tea party can parade around and display their 2nd amendment rights and fancy guns with a purpose other than pissing off cops.

Occupy/Tea coalition goals could be simple; stuff like "Bodycams on all Cops." "Lowering lower/middle class taxation, raising corporate taxes." "Overturning Citizens United."

Keep it simple. There's no longer any need for those ridiculous circle jerk occupy meetings I used to attend where no one is in charge and everything gets muddied by trying to honor every person's feelings.

Keep it simple. Occupy. Tea party armed guards.

How's that?

Yo, you suggested this, tell me what to do. If you can organize something, I'll just follow what you're doing

Like are you suggesting an "Occupy Party" or something?

Do what I was gonna do when I have free time tomorrow at work with a computer and not a cell and look up a list of Occupy and Tea platform positions and connect them at the root cause. Report back.

Overall, their root cause is money problems in the US, the Tea Party is focused on the government debt, and Occupy Movement was focused on social and income inequality (or in some cases, anger at corrupt rich people).

Generally they both support major services, such as education and welfare.

The tea party's solution was to basically make illegal immigrants get no benefits and still pay taxes, and the Occupy movement was mainly focused on getting the government listen to the people.

aka both groups are generally monetarily progressive, tea party is generally socially conservative but they want to plug up the ballooning deficit somehow. For example, the Tea Party dislikes abortion but have stated that their main focus was not abortion policy, as they're economically focused.

The tea party's downfall was that they trusted too much of money they raised to Super PACs with supposedly similar "conservative" goals, but then they would use the money to do other things that didn't go with the tea party ethos.

The Occupy movement on the other hand focused around social protest to change government. They helped restart the conversation about increased minimum wage.

They wanted Washington to tighten regulations around the banking industry and arrest 'financial fraudsters'.

A lot of their demands were ignored by government.

These two groups have one UNCOMMON goal: Tea Party is against taxing the rich, while the Occupy movement wanted a Robin Hood Tax.

TL;DR Overall we have two groups undermined by the government with a root cause based around economic unrest. Both groups wanted to tighten up regulations to get money from fraudsters (whether from banks or illegal immigrants). Both appear to be starting to run dry of funding and members now, and seem to be on the tail end of their respective movements.

Beautifully done my friend. I did not know the Tea Party was against taxing the rich. Interesting as I wonder what their solution to fixing the budget would be, as reducing the discretionary budget wouldn't work without reducing the size of our military, and I remember they are against that.

Now how about this? The Tea Party is an "official" organization, with a website, etc. Occupy just has their old FB pages from when it was happening. Not really a center to the structure of the movement. How do we bring those together.

Ehh, war would be a huge division. It's also the largest money sink. Tea party folk SUPPORT DUH TROOPS, and the occupy people don't.

As a far-left occupier, I support our nation's troops. I do not support war. You'll find many many tea-partyists saying the same thing.

This is why we just pick a few issues and unify.

Body-cams, check. Lower taxes on the people, raise them on corporations, check. Get money out of politics, check. That's it (as an example anyway). All other politics are left at the tent flap.

Keep it simple. Don't bring divisive politics into it. We're all human. My entire Wyoming fam identifies as tea party members. We get along just fine at family gatherings and always find common ground politically.

edit: Add "Solve the veteran mental-health/suicide/homelessness issue." as a point.

You "support" the profession primarily involved in war? What?

I support our troops, many of which enlist as 18 year old children, who are sold patriotism and nationalism everyday in public schools, or those who enlist to become citizens, or help pay with college. These people are victims. They get chewed up and spit out then become homeless and kill themselves. You can support troops and not support war. I have many family members in the Guard. They are good people. I'm not saying I support corruption or occupation or people that enlist to hurt others.

Then it sounds like support, in your sense, is completely different than the normal "support the troops" bullshit. You recognize the awful situations many of the military folk come from, or are in. It's horrible. But to say I support them just sounds wrong. I empathize with them, I wish the best for them, but I certainly don't support anything they're doing.

I should add that I come from a long line of military family. My dad is the person I respect the most, and none of that respect comes from his involvement in the military.

I spose when I say I support the troops, I am saying I support people, human beings, who currently or previously served in the military because of the their plights as citizens being neglected by the VA or their ignorance in complying with antihumanitarian orders and the fallout from that; which affects all of us.

That's cool. You're clearly not the kind of person I'm trying to rail against. Thanks for the discussion.

The people doing the shooting don't have a choice in the matter because it's their job. They're not the ones that decided that blood needed to be spilled for political gain.

Everyone is responsible for their own actions. There is no "just doing their job" excuse. Soldiers killing people do not get a pass just because they are being paid to do so.

Let's do it. How do we start?

All that finger waggling drive me nuts to be honest

I don't follow.

They would kill each other before anything got accomplished.

Lol. Maybe.

... So you really not realize that occupy was created and funded by the same people who run the government? Holy fuck

Lol I was deeply involved.

We need to draft a declaration of illegitimacy, based on the fact that our government has lost all credibility and does not serve it's people, but rather the foreign and corporate interests. Have a few hundred thousand people or more sign it (or add their name online). Then we need to have a convention to draft a new constitution that replaces the old government with something new and have provisions that protect democracy and ensure that the new government cannot be corrupted again.

this should be much higher. we need to know how many of us there are.

Kill politicians. When a government no longer represents the people, you need violent revolution. Democracy has failed, your votes mean nothing. It's your duty as free Americans to overthrow the government, and the only way to do that is through violence. That's how it's been done throughout all of human history.

You are now on a list.

lol well at least I'll die for a good cause... shitposting on reddit

There's a great series of essays from the 1990's by Jim Bell called Assassination Politics that talks about this very thing. Unfortunately, while it sounds like a good idea, it would never work. The American people have been brainwashed into believing that harming one little hair on one of our dear leaders heads is horrible and makes you a terrorist. Their sympathies lie with the master at the moment. Any person trying such a thing, I fear, wouldn't have to wait for the government to come and snuff them out. Their neighbor would likely be their biggest enemy.

Well fortunately it's not my battle, I don't live in the US. Its just my perspective as an outsider looking in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJSehRlU34w&amp;ab_channel=TEDxTalks

I hope this at least gets read. My best idea would be to pick a date in the far future (to give time for the news to spread). On this day we all choose not to go to work. Money would be valueless with us not wanting/needing it. Of course we would have to start farming beforehand. So you work for your money or work for your farm. either way it's work there is no escaping it. This isn't just modern day slavery but also modern day freedom. So pick the day and spread the news convince everyone

Sound like money would still be around those systems tho. Therefore still having to work for it. So still in governments control. Got to get rid of money to get rid if government. Or to ateast take their power away.

Those systems kind of still exist in very rural areas of the U.S. Of course no one can/will completely cut themselves off from money, but there are some people that still live a very simple life.

My wife's family is from a very rural part of Georgia (think dirt floors rural) where they still trade goods throughout their small community. One family has fish, one has deer and pig meat, one has vegetables. They all trade these good between each other and live very cheaply.

It is possible to live like this, but too many people aren't willing to give up their luxuries to be independent.

In a society of loan dependance and renting, this wouldn't work. The average person only cares about being able to live, eat, relax, and work. Until one of these things are gravely threatened, nothing will happen.

"in a society of Loan dependence and renting" what exactly do you mean by that? The problem that I see is your landlord still wanting something in exchange for you living in his place but you can just move out and make your own place. Well either way my first comment was just a quick thought obviously there more complex to think about

Do you know anyone that doesn't have a loan or mortgage? When you stop paying those, you lose important things like your house and your car. How do you not know what I mean? 37% of people rent. When you stop paying rent, you get evicted. Do you see the issues now? Do you really believe that people will just stop paying for everything and move into the woods to build huts or something?

Exactly why everyone would have to stop going to their jobs including bankers for this This plan to work. Who's going to call you about your mortgage that would b nobodys job. And why would they call you money would be worthless.

And therein lies the fault I'm pointing out.

People don't have land to farm. IIRc you need 1 acer of land to feed yourself. What about apartments? Inner city houses?

We just need a communist revolution.

Where are you going to get the land to farm?

That's just the quick thought. We'd definitely have to sort out the more complex ideas behind it. More organized just like government did. But honestly I'm not willing to take action. All the big influences tend to just die "coincidentally"

I believe the solution, in a nutshell, is to decentralize/localize power. People should defend the 10th Amendment with the same passion as they do the 2nd:

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

In practice:

Homeschooling: It's nearly/completely unregulated in states such as New Jersey, Oklahoma, Utah, etc... this counters Common Core, Mandatory Vaccinations, etc.

Marijuana Legalization: Recreational use is legal in 4 states... this partly counters the War on Drugs. This issue is on many state ballots this November, legalization will likely spread. So it's not hard to imagine marijuana's removal from schedule 1 in the near future.

Gay Marriage: This began at the state level as well. I'm not sure what exactly it counters, but it's further proof that states can refute the authority of the central powers.

Minimum Wage: Some states keep it low and some states even have no state minimum (they must still pay the Federal minimum)... this helps people stay employed, i.e. less dependent on DC.

Experimental Health Treatments: There are a variety of them which are not approved by the FDA, yet they are available in respective States... this counters Big Pharma.

Other Issues: Civil asset forfeiture, Obamacare, Police drone use, Hemp cultivation, License plate tracking, etc...

Get free from Central Powers/Control by using peer-to-peer cryptographically secure decentralized systems like Bitcoin

We need to completely dismantle the 2 party system. Both Dems and Repubs are rotten to the core.

If you understand how political parties formed you would understand that getting rid of the 2 parties does not change much. The political parties formed from people having similar views. There was no parties in the beginning of U.S. History. People tended to have the same views , so they grouped together to make their views a reality. If 30 people all agreed on the same topic, they would most likely agree on other topics. while the 2 political parties have too much power in our society, 2 sides of an argument led to the formation of political parties. What I just stated is not 100% applicable to today's society, but the theme still follows. Unfortunately the problem I see with political parties is that if one party supports a view the other party will always disagree. Unfortunately my dad will always vote for democrats because he is apart of a labor union, even if he does not support the candidate. If we had a political leader that had his/her own views, not the parties views I would think that could end the power of the parties.

Honestly? Back away. Governments/institutions can't be righted without extreme pressure either from within (corruption) or without (rebellion). Neither is good for the people. Now isn't the time to poke the bear that government has become, now is the time to buy a small house in the country, plant a sustainable garden, and wait ten years. You can put money in the system, but that just rewards the system. Getting rich rewards the system, staying poor feeds the system's impetus, like a drug addict. But staying small, as off the grid as you feel comfortable, and living off your own production is a big fuck-you to both sides of the corrupt government. Don't get so rich that you become a tax slave, don't be so poor that you become a welfare slave. Be insignificant, and the bear will pass on by.

I think this is more powerful than most people know.

Decentralize all of the things!

Stop sending your children to government schools. Let go of your statist faith. Government is the disease posing as the cure. Use open source when you can, and don't develop for proprietary, centralizing, enslaving, technologies. Create, & contribute to, individual empowering technology, and efforts. Understand that if you are working for NSA, or IBM, or Google, or Apple, military, police, etc., you're a tool of the slaving establishment. They're paying you to assist in the enslavement of yourself, & your loved ones for generations to come. Rely on yourself, your family, your friends, and neighbors. Avoid the state as much as you possibly can.

There are only two groups that matter; individuals who respect the rights of others, & those who don't. Divide & conquer is the oldest trick in the book. Don't allow yourself to be distracted/divided.

Create freedom in your own life. It's the only freedom you'll find in this world.

We are waiting for the Joint Chiefs to do their duty of Foreign Internal Defense. So far we've seen the CIA betrayed in Syria, Snowden working undercover at NSA and leaking the goods.. and now these 'Guccifer2.0' leaks.

Hostile public takeover of media broadcasting stations is the only way anything will change. Power in numbers is our advantage. Organising those numbers impossible without media takeover.

I don't like violence. And the less the better. But hostile, is the only way to overpower these fucks at the top

Read about pre-revolution Russia, or pre-revolution France, and get an idea of what conditions must be like to inspire a revolution.

Absolutely this.

Most of us are forgetting one thing... there is still a "middle class", or, there is still a dream of the "middle class" which keeps people showing up to work to make money so they can buy shit they dont need in order to put them closer to the "middle class".

The majority of the citizens in pre-revolution Russia / France were desperate, hungry, poor, sick, and forgotten about. There was no allusion of "class mobility". Revolution was their one, true option.

People here still believe there is a chance to make an honest, moral living. They don't want to be bothered. They'd rather work until 70 (if they live that long) and just try to provide for their family.

When the average American is poor, starving, indebted and desolate, then revolution will be seriously considered. Unfortunately for us that time will be far too late due to the advance of technology.

We've been kept far too fat and far too stupid for far too long.

Rise up. When you're living on your knees you rise up. When are these colonies gonna rise up? We gonna rise up, rise UP!

We've had the evidence for decades...

Empathy for common people who happen to support the system, either out of ignorance or a sense of loyalty. If we demonize them, we all lose.

What do... have you seen r/politics comments. These people defend Hillary like she's their fucking mother. They ignore all the dirt just as the media does.

How many are being paid to be there?

I'm not interested in random people on the internet, I'm more interested in the people I actually have to live and work with.

Okay I'll shut up then.

I meant more in a general sense. My point was that whatever the organized brigades on any internet forum are doing, that's on the internet. I can fight against that, shouting my 0s and 1s incomprehensibly into The Cloud? Or I can listen to the people around me, pick and choose when to fight my battles irl.

I apologize for marginalizing you or anyone specifically who read that comment, it was a poor choice of words and phrasing on my part.

I would rather they be paid to post propaganda, (for any candidate), unfortunately there really are legitimately brainwashed people out there.

[deleted]

Well said

revolution

VOTE. you don't need to run an armed revolution, you don't need to murder your governors. You need to run for office and replace the corrupt incumbents in your districts. Violent uprising will more than likely end up in a string of fascist dictatorships, as it has in every other country in the world that has had a violent revolution. so VOTE VOTE VOTE. Draft legislation that makes what is happening is illegal, vote for congressional members who agree with you and will enforce those laws.

Vote with your dollars, don't support the multi-nationals that pull this sort of deplorable shit. Sell your car and ride a bike, petrochemical companies can't continue to poison our environment if they have no money to operate. Support local businesses, farmers, co-ops.

Arm, Organize, Revolt.

Should have been doing it for the past 40 years. Better get started, the ruling class has been prepping since the 1760s at least.

Keep buying guns and ammo. As Thomas Payne said "It is the duty of the true patroit to protect his country from its government. "

The "people", most of which would rather have switched to google plus vs facebook, couldn't even coordinate that small of a change, so it failed.

Sure, if every armed citizen fought back, after some nukes devastating cities and drone victories and swat teams murdering residents, could, possibly have a shot at overthrowing the government.

The question still is one of a logistical nature, that imho, isn't at the necessary turning point of need or organization, no matter how nazi this gets in the coming years, at least in our lifetimes, to happen.

Shit, we're at the most educated period in history, and my only hope is to see some demise of religion while I still breathe. I'd love to be around for the collapse of regime "modern" governments, but saying arm yourself, while I don't disagree, is worthless without some organization, which conveniently, the government has convinced the majority is impossible without them, is leaving the most needed steps untouched.

The most fucked up part of this all is that I'm now on a list for saying that.

They even killed their own people in 9-11

Who is they?

Oh, it's /r/conspiracy

yeah it was osama bin laden amirite guys

Nothing we can do. Anyone who starts an organization to fight against tyranny will be smeared in the media, threatened, have an accident, or be assassinated by someone with a prominent middle name.

If they have their own nation we'll find an excuse to go to war with them.

People are too easy to track and identify. The moment the leader of an anti establishment group becomes too popular, they'll be destroyed via slander, framing then framing, or death.

Look at the many cases where politicians have tried to make a stand and were smeared or attacked. That female lawmaker from new mexico or arizona, shot in the head at some rally. She'd been a big opponent of some powerful industry or group.

John edwards was hard on big pharma. his infidelity made headlines. Paul wellstone. The former new york attorney general was messing with the banking system. His trist with a hooker made the news and inspired a tv show where his fucking wife stands next to him during his apology.

lincoln and jfk both opposed the central bank federal reserve system because its owned by private for profit groups. ultimate tryanny. they both were killed.

they tried to kill andrew jackson when he killed the first incarnation of the fed but the guns jammed due to humidity

soon the overlords will ha e autonomous war machines and they wont need human soldiers who balk at the idea of murdering their fellow citizens.

Start voting for third party candidates across the board.

Sit back and watch the show

Bingo.

We are first and foremost a society driven on money, so vote with your dollar. Revolutions don't have to be bloody, we are the ones that keep the government running, we are the ones who take their pay checks to be mercenaries in their army or traitor beuaracrats. We need to teach our children not to ever serve the state, never join the military, that there is only disgrace im being a law enforcer, then the state would have no muscle. However, we allow our children to be raised by the state through school and media and have become irrelevant as a moral force In society. The family is the great enemy to the state.

I agree with voting with your dollar, but also seek alternatives to the money system. Find a local time bank, volunteer, barter.

Absolutely, wherever you can avoid their economy and system, and operate by alternative means.

You can do whatever you want, it will change nothing.

The vast majority of people are ok with a corrupt government as long as their quality of life is not seriously threatened.

For example take the French revolution or the Russian revolution. The people had been abused for centuries, but it wasn't until they started dying of starvation that there was enough momentum to start a revolution that had a long lasting impact.

In the recent Spring revolution of the Arab countries it all started when the price of bread was so high that poor people couldn't afford to buy it anymore.

What? You clearly don't understand what happened in the middle east if you buy the narrative that there was some sort of "revolution" by the people. Jesus, man, stop watching the mainstream media. You couldn't be more wrong about what happened in the Arab Spring.

Here's a message from a poor Syrian who just wants someone to listen:

Your Obama and whoever is behind him or above him are supporting al Qaeda and leading a proxy war on my country. We thought you are against al Qaeda and now you support them. The majority here loves Assad. He has never committed a crime against his own people… the chemical attack was staged by the terrorists helped by USA and UK etc… everyone knows that here.

American soldiers and people should not be supporting barbarian al Qaeda terrorists who are killing Christians, Muslims in my country and everyone.

Every massacre has committed by them. We were all happy in Syria = we have free school and university education available for everyone, free healthcare, no GMO, no fluoride, no chemtrails, no Rothschild IMF — controlled bank, state owned central bank which gives 11% interest, we are self-sufficient and have no foreign debt to any country or bank.

Life before the crisis was so beautiful here. Now it is hard and horrific in some regions.

I do not understand how the good and brave American people can accept to bomb my country who has never harmed them and therefore help the barbarian al Qaeda. These animals slit throats and behead for pleasure… they behead babies and rape young kids.

They are satanic. Our military helped.by the millions of civilian militias are winning the battle against al Qaeda but now the usa want to bomb the shit out of us so the al Qaeda can get the upper hand.

Please help us American people. They are destroying the cradle of civilization. Stop your government.

Impeach that bankster puppet ape you have as president… support Ron Paul or Rand or anyone the like who are true American patriots. But be sure of one thing: if they attack and I think they will, it will be hell.

Be sure that it be world war and many many will die. Syria can and will defend itself and will sink many US ships. Iran will go to war.

Russia and China eventually if it escalates… and all this for what ? For the elites who created al Qaeda through the US gvt and use it to conduct proxy wars and destabilize countries who do not go along with their new world order agenda !?

American people… you gotta regain control of your once admirable country. Now everyone hates you for.the.death you bring almost everywhere.

Ask the Iraqis…the Afghans…the Pakistanis…the Palestinians… the Syrians… the Macedonians and Serbs…the Libyans… the Somalis… the Yemenis… all the ones you kill with drones everyday. Stop your wars stop wars. Enough wars. Use diplomacy, dialogue… help… not force.”

Consistent testimonies from Syrians, as well as well-documented, open-source Western sources, and historical memory, all serve to reinforce the accuracy of the aforementioned testimony.

Syrians are living the horror brought to them by the criminal West. They can not afford the complacency of shrugging their shoulders in indecision, not when their lives and their ancient civilization is being threatened by Western-paid terrorist mercenaries of the worst kind.

“Our” proxies, slit throats, chop heads, and take no prisoners as we waffle in indecision, ignore empirical evidence, and take the comfortable easy road of believing the labyrinth of lies promulgated by Western media messaging.

The veil of comfortable confusion, nested in an unconscious belief that our government knows best or that it is patriotic to believe the lies and fabrications implicit in the hollow words of politicians (who no longer represent us) and the false pronouncements of Imperial messengers, is concealing an overseas holocaust.

Western societies are rotting from the inside out because of these lies and this barbarity. We are protecting a criminal cabal of corporate globalists who do not serve our interests and never will.

Our democracies, which we should be protecting, have long disappeared – except in the hollow words of newspaper stenographers. Instead we are supporting transnational corporate elites and their delusional projects.

Poverty and disemployment are all soaring beneath the fakery of government pronouncements, as the public domain evaporates beneath words like “efficiency” or the “economy” — all false covers that serve to enrich elites and destroy us. Internal imperialism at home is a faded replica of the foreign imperialism abroad.

As countries are destroyed, and its peoples are slaughtered — think Syria, Libya, Ukraine, and others — by abhorrent Western proxies — public institutions are contaminated, and ultimately replaced by parasitical “privatized” facsimiles.

Public banking is looted and destroyed in favour of transnational banksterism, World Bank funding, and IMF usury. Food security is destroyed and replaced by biotech tentacles and engineered dependencies on cash crops and unhealthy food.

Currencies are destroyed, sanctions are imposed, and the unknown, unseen hand of totalitarian control imposes itself, amidst the cloud of diversions and confusions, aided by comprador regimes, oligarch interests, and shrugging domestic populations.

Syria refuses to submit. That is why the West is taught to hate her, and the rest of the world learns to love and respect her.

Yet, Syria’s struggles are our struggles. Syria represents international law, stability, and integrity: the same values that western peoples overtly cherish but stubbornly reject, as our countries wilt beneath suffocating veils of lies and delusions.

I support Syria, because I respect what remains of international law. I support Syria because I reject Wahhabism, Sharia law, and terrorism. I support Syria because I reject the undemocratic, transnational oligarchies that are subverting our once flourishing, now dead, democracies. I reject the lies of our propagandizing media, the hollow words of our politicians, and the fake “humanitarian” messaging that demonizes non-belligerent countries and their populations. In the name of justice, humanity, and the rule of law, I support the elected government of Syria led by its President, Bashar al-Assad. Syria, an ancient cradle of civilization, is leading the way towards a better future for all of us.

All we have to do is open our eyes.

Well written piece, highly patriotic, demonizes U.S. foreign policy, mentions conspiracy theories like GMOs / fluoride. My "this might be Russian propaganda" flag has been raised. It fits the pattern. Still a good read though, and the facts seem accurate. Maybe it's simply the anti-Oligarchy propaganda that Americans need to learn about. Yeah I'll go with that as my final conclusion Jim.

Yeah, there are a few extremely good points in there, but holy shit.

I just don't have the time to sift through it thoroughly enough to write up a reply highlighting what is actually supported by evidence, and what's nonsense ranting about satanism, chemtrails, and "biotech tentacles".

Again, please, tell me what you appear to be disputing so I can provide citations. All of what he has written is provable, there is no "Arab Spring protests" against governments, there is only PAID mercenaries that go by the names Daesh, Isis, Al-nusra, all the same fucking mercenaries funded by Israel and America. What do you think we're doing there? It's not like this is breaking news, this has been reported many times before for the last 3 years. Hell, Putin himself says it, so does Hillary Clinton. This is not some conspiracy theory, it's reality. Again, what do you think we're doing in Syria? Fighting ISIS? Hah!

Look it up:

Again

This is the first time we've ever spoken.

please, tell me what you appear to be disputing so I can provide citations.

Alright, I'd like some citations on the GMO, fluoride, chemtrail claims, because that's all outright silliness.

I'd also like some regarding the assertion that Western nations or proxies were responsible for the situation in the Ukraine. As far as I'm aware, that was one of the few recent hotspots of instability Western nations didn't really have a whole lot to do with.

And finally some good sources on your claim that Arab Spring wasn't really driven by the people. The United States certainly took advantage of it, particularly in Syria, but there were demonstrations from Algeria, to Iraq, to Jordan, to Kuwait, to Morocco, and even to Oman.

Aaand that's about it. I mean, you're glorifying Assad a little too strongly, but I wont dispute that he's certainly what was best for the country.

All of what he has written is provable

"He" is you, mate.

there is only PAID mercenaries that go by the names Daesh, Isis, Al-nusra, all the same fucking mercenaries funded by Israel and America.

Alright, no. That's not true.

They're fighting because America paid to arm rebel forces, absolutely. And yes, a great many of those rebels either sold the arms they were given to ISIS, or defected to them and took the arms with them, totally. And the whole reason they armed the rebel forces was so that they would destabilize Syria, that's entirely correct.

But they're not paying them to fight. That has never been proven by any stretch of the imagination.

Again, what do you think we're doing in Syria? Fighting ISIS?

No "we", I'm Canadian. We pulled out participating in Syria, because that's pretty much the highest form of protest to America's arming of the Rebels that we can offer.

That said, there's absolutely a good amount of fighting ISIS going on. Contrary to what you seem to believe, even the United State government is no fan of ISIS. They're fans of the Rebels, which is why they arm them, and why they've been bickering with Russia, who wants to bomb ISIS and the Rebels both.

Unlike those Rebels, ISIS is also active in Iraq, which is extremely contrary to US interests. They just got a government in charge of Iraq that is willing to play ball with them, the last thing they want is for that to be jeopardized.

Man, you Canadians really disappoint me. All of you are brainwashed to a worse extent than even most Americans, and you rely on the mainstream media just as much. Every Canadian I see is defending the official narrative, every Canadian I see is using terms like "racist", "homophobe", and overall just playing into the identity politics cards just like TPB want.

Anyway, as far as US funding ISIS: “During the investigations, Yousaf al Salafi revealed that he was getting funding – routed through America – to run the organisation in Pakistan and recruit young people to fight in Syria,” a source privy to the investigations revealed to Daily Express on the condition of anonymity. Source

Source 2.

Source 3

Source 4

Source 5

Source 6

And no, I did not write that post, that post I found on the internet There are no moderate rebels you fool, that is newspeak. You are trapped in an Orwellian nightmare, WAKE THE FUCK UP. We are funding the same people that supposedly knocked down the twin towers, Al-Nusra, which is Al Qaeda in Syria. Those are the so called "Friendly Rebels". Jesus man, you are fucking brainwashed if you buy that shit.

Every Canadian I see is defending the official narrative, every Canadian I see is using terms like "racist", "homophobe", and overall just playing into the identity politics cards

So what you're saying here is because you don't personally agree common Canadian stances on some issue pertaining to race or homosexuality, Canadians must also be wrong on the military situation in Syria? Do you genuinely believe that to be a rational way of figuring out what is true and what is not?

just like TPB want.

Dare I ask who the TPB are?

And no, I did not write that post, that post I found on the internet

You realize the uncited post stops at "Enough wars. Use diplomacy..dialogue…help..not force." right? Everything after that is an opinion piece from the organization.

An organization which appears to be batshit insane, at that. Look at all the bullshit they peddle: "Cancer and Autism: Mysterious Deaths of Alternative Health Doctors Who Have Real Cures Not Approved by the FDA", "Vaccination’s Dilemma: Unsafe at Any Dose", "Nanoparticles Enable Remote Control Brains Via Magnetic Field: New Study", "Vaccine McCarthyism. What if the Vaccine Paradigm itself is Deliberately Flawed?", "U.S. is Responsible for the Ebola Outbreak in West Africa: Liberian Scientist", "City Council Votes to Ban Mind Control Weapon Use Against Residents", "Chemtrails: The Consequences of Toxic Metals and Chemical Aerosols on Human Health", there is an endless amount of bullshit on this website.

There are no moderate rebels you fool, that is newspeak.

I never fucking said there were. You wake up, you illiterate dipshit, you're literally reading things that aren't even there. I have expressed nothing but scorn for the actions of the Rebels throughout the entirety of my three years on Reddit.

I'm not going to waste any further time on a lunatic who puts words in my mouth.

Classic, don't even address my sources after asking for them. You really are a piece of shit, you know that? I've never seen a more blatant evasion in my entire life than asking me for sources, then once I provide them you find a problem with something I said, and hand-wave them all entirely. You leafs really are garbage and incapable of critical thought.

I've never seen a more blatant evasion in my entire life than asking me for sources

Hold the fuck up there, you piece of easily deceived slime. You didn't actually provide even a single fucking source I asked for.

GMO

Nothing.

fluoride

Nothing.

chemtrail

Nothing.

the assertion that Western nations or proxies were responsible for the situation in the Ukraine

Nothing.

sources on your claim that Arab Spring wasn't really driven by the people

Nothing.

You shifted the burden of proof for literally every single requested source onto a fucking anonymous Facebook post provided by an organization which claims the government has fucking mind-control rays.

That is why I didn't give a shit about your provided sources; none of them are related to a goddamn thing I asked of you. You have failed to provide even a single one, now you're throwing a fit because I don't care about your bullshit that I didn't ask for.

You're deliberately trying to redirect the discussion away from the claims you made which you know you can't support, because you are an intellectually dishonest coward and a liar.

You leafs really are garbage and incapable of critical thought.

That's hilarious coming forming from the complacent piece of shit that can't even control their own government.

Fuck, and even knowing perfectly well about all the horrors and atrocities the money you provide them with funds, you don't even have the decency to so much as relocate to avoid financially contributing to the war effort.

It's revolting. You barely even deserve to call yourself a human being, prioritizing your convenience above the lives of actual people, even as we speak.

How many times do I have to say this, I didn't make these claims. I linked to a website with this guy's message. I am here to defend his message, but it seems you are just a stray from /r/all and I am not here to write a dissertation on conspiracy research, if you wish to find out about these topics do some fucking research yourself you lazy prick. No matter what sources I provide you, you will find one thing disconnected idea and post it in bold capitalized letters as if that is some sort of argument against my source. Wow, Mind Control rays! Really, does that discount all 6 sources I sent you? Fucking jump off a bridge, really, I hope you do it because you're a slave if you believe the media. You fucking people, I swear to god, it's like you believe everything you see on television. WAKE THE FUCK UP.

And unlike you, I am speaking against my government in protest of their actions, so in what way am I prioritizing my convenience above the lives of the innocent? Please? At least I'm willing to do the necessary research to inform myself and my fellow peers about the criminal conspiracy going on in the middle east? You're just a fucking slave to the media. If they tell you something, you believe it! go watch some television and go back to sleep. And you better believe your government is involved in this faking of ISIS to raid the middle east.

Watch this you slave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Rll6ZHbow

I am here to defend his message

Then do so.

but it seems you are just a stray from /r/all and I am not here to write a dissertation on conspiracy research

You won't? Alright, like I said then, you're a coward and a liar.

do some fucking research yourself you lazy prick

"Waahhhh, I can't defend what I insist to be true!"

Wow, Mind Control rays!

Yeah, pretty stupid. Hilarious that you're willing to believe these people even as they lie to your face.

Really, does that discount all 6 sources I sent you?

Only one of the six contained the anonymous Facebook comment that your entire bitchfest is centered around. Everything else was about shit I never asked you to provide, and don't care about in the least.

I already told you all this, were my words too big or something? No wonder you're so easily deceived; you're not smart enough to think beyond restating the same thing over and over again. It's like you think if you repeat yourself enough, it'll become true.

And unlike you, I am speaking against my government in protest of their actions

As you fucking give them the money they use to continue waging war.

so in what way am I prioritizing my convenience above the lives of the innocent?

By choosing to continue living in the place that demands you contribute to the war effort for the continued privilege. You can speak out against the American government from anywhere in the world, you just choose not to because moving would be "too much of a hassle".
It's downright revolting that you're making excuses for it when you know this to be true.

At least I'm willing to do the necessary research to inform myself and my fellow peers about the criminal conspiracy going on in the middle east?

And how much has that amounted to? Like damn near everything else that comes out of your mouth; nothing. Not a damn thing.
People like you are the reason this shit continues unabated: to cowardly and weak to do anything about it no matter how much they know. You're not even willing to stop helping them! Just thinking about it makes sick.

You're just a fucking slave to the media.

Because I don't believe anonymous Facebook post, filled with claims you're incapable of defending, and provided by an organization which repeatedly lies to my face to be true?

That's hilarious. How does it feel then, knowing a slave managed to stop their government from participating in Syria, while you can't even manage that? Fuck, you can't even manage to stop contributing to it!

Watch this you slave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13Rll6ZHbow

Cool story; not my currency. You are the only one between us contributing to the use of the US dollar. Your hypocrisy is astounding, and you're still going to make up excuses as to why you won't stop.

Absolutely vile that you choose to contribute to this.

You really think you're so fucking innocent sitting there in Canada don't you, like Canada is innocent in this whole episode? Don't forget, Canada has participated as well in the airstrikes against ISIS, as well as in the war in Iraq and Afghanistan. Don't think being in fucking Canada makes you immune from the guilt as well, there is blood on your hands. But don't worry, you're also helping by taking in the refugees! In fact, you're taking in so many, that your country will be a majority Muslim by 2050. Stand up for your race, you cucks.

like Canada is innocent in this whole episode? Don't forget, Canada has participated as well in the airstrikes against ISIS

Oh noes! We bombed what you claim to be mercenaries hired by America!

How will we ever live it down?!

well as in the war in Iraq

No Canadian participated in the invasion of Iraq.

Afterward, during the occupation, while a few people with Canadian citizenship did participate, Canada never did. The only people involved militarily were the 40 to 50 exchange officers on loan to the US and UK, and it's not up to us what they do with them. Just like it's not up to them what we did with the men received in exchange, which was not allow them to participate.

So no, not really.

and Afghanistan

We didn't have a choice regarding Afghanistan. You invoked Article 5 of the NATO charter, requiring all NATO members to assist you, whether they want to or not.

But at the end of the day, I don't have a time machine. I can only control what I do right now, and unlike yourself, I choose not to willingly contribute to the wealth of atrocities you insist are occurring with your money, at your behest.

You, on the other hand, simply make excuses. Just look at yourself, so cowardly that you can't even admit responsibility for your ongoing voluntarily contributions. People like you are the reason America gets away with what it does, too lazy to do what's right.

your country will be a majority Muslim by 2050.

Islam: 3.2%

Lol.

Back in 1854, there were just three Muslims in what was then Upper Canada. By 1871, there were 17. This rose to 478 in 1921, 1,800 in 1951, 33,430 in 1971, more than 253,000 in 1991, and over 1.05 million during the last census in 2011.

Over this period, the percentage of the Canadian population that is Muslim has been doubling approximately every decade. In 1901, 0.0009% of the population was Muslim. As of 2011, it was 3.2%. When this consistent century-long growth rate is extrapolated into the future, Canada becomes a majority-Muslim country before 2050.

I'm upset because they're not really bombing ISIS, they're bombing Assadists who are protecting their own sovereign country from proxy armies funded by the West (including CANADA)

And what evidence do you have to rebuke me? Witty evasions and distractions, but you asked me to provide sources for the fundamental claims for which I have. Source that America funds ISIS, creates ISIS, sources that we are responsible for Ukraine as well, sources about Assad being anti-GMO. And I did, and you completely ignored them.

Back in 1854, there were just three Muslims in what was then Upper Canada. By 1871, there were 17. This rose to 478 in 1921, 1,800 in 1951, 33,430 in 1971, more than 253,000 in 1991, and over 1.05 million during the last census in 2011.

Over this period, the percentage of the Canadian population that is Muslim has been doubling approximately every decade. In 1901, 0.0009% of the population was Muslim. As of 2011, it was 3.2%. When this consistent century-long growth rate is extrapolated into the future, Canada becomes a majority-Muslim country before 2050.

"By the third trimester, there will be hundreds of babies in you."

Original Source

Mobile

Title: Extrapolating

Title-text: By the third trimester, there will be hundreds of babies inside you.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 1001 times, representing 0.7912% of referenced xkcds.

^{xkcd.com | xkcd sub | Problems/Bugs? | Statistics | Stop Replying | Delete}

While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by prefacing your reddit link with np.reddit.com.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Did you check out the source on Ukraine? :D

Not yet, I was at work when I wrote my last reply, that's why it's so short. Just getting home now, making dinner and stuff. I'll get to it soon-ish.

Here is a source on Western Backed war in Ukraine to back terrorists: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw

edit: full source list you cuck http://stormcloudsgathering.com/the-ukraine-crisis-what-youre-not-being-told

as usual I'm sure you will find an excuse to ignore this source too.

Thanks but I don't really care about the person who wrote it either, but please, if you are going to call it propaganda, tell me where it's wrong? There is no protest against government, there is a proxy army paid and funded by united states and Israel. Tell me why anyone would call it a "protest" who rightly knows otherwise? I don't care what that message looks like, if it looks like "Russian Propaganda" or something else, I really don't care, because it's correct. If you, or anyone has a problem with the facts, let me know, so I can prove them correct.

Yeah I lol'ed when a supposedly Syrian native speaking in broken English mentioned chemtrails, fluoride, and the Rothschilds.

Please....

I also liked "bomb the shit out of us" haha

The Duran reported in a post entitled, “Why the Syrian conflict is not a civil war”…

Alfred Marder who, is the President of the USPC firstly acknowledged that the US peace and anti-war movement has been in a state of confusion about Syria and that this has caused division within the movement.

He explained that the domestic tactic used by the US government to sway US public opinion, is, to demonise the leader of whatever country the US is targeting.

“Whether it’s Noriega, Hussein, Gaddafi, or Assad, there’s a definite pattern here”

He said the story the US people have been told about President Assad and Syria have been purposefully false. Concerning the reporting he said

“This is not accidental. This is designed to confuse people’s opinions on these Leaders.”

Jamison was blunt in his assessment and likened this quote to the dangerous attitude of so many Americans who think they know about Syria and President Assad but “….what they think they know, just ain’t so!”

In his opinion the US motive is to destroy Syria as an independent secular Arab state and make it compliant to US interests and policies, like Iraq and Libya have become since the US invasions and bombings of these two countries.

Just like Libya before the NATO bombing, Syria has universal free healthcare and free education from childcare through to university.

Jamison pointed out that the US government supports Jabhat al-Nusra and other groups (whose names change often) who they claim to be ‘moderate rebels’ but who in truth are not moderate in any way and are affiliated either with Al-Qaeda or ISIS.

He mentioned the foreign backed mercenaries (ISIS) are fuelled by the Wahhabi doctrine which he described as

“a sick medieval and backward ideology driven by the Muslim Brotherhood with its genesis in Saudi Arabia.”

He affirmed his opinion by describing how so called ‘moderate’ Jabhat Al-Nusra mercenaries beheaded a 12 yr old boy during the time the delegation was in Syria. There is nothing ‘moderate’ about beheading a 12 year old boy.

The other major story they shared was the generally unreported sanctions that the US has imposed upon the Syrian people.

The US government claims the sanctions target the Syrian government. However they are actually aimed at wearing down the resolve of the Syrian people.

The US has imposed sanctions similar to the ones Iraq experienced before the invasion, which even the US admits killed half a million children.

Syrians cannot get baby formula, common medication, medication for chemotherapy, child immunisation etc.

These sanctions are so insidious that they affect medical clinics throughout Syria because they are unable to get parts for machines used in medical practice. Think: X-ray, CAT, MRI machines right down to dentists drills.

President Assad has claimed from the beginning that there was no uprising and that the country was being invaded by foreign backed mercenaries. Gaddafi said exactly the same thing when NATO started bombing Libya.

Coincidence? I think not.

The same scenario was acted out in Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya, and now Syria: invaded and bombed into submission without any politician, general or complicit media representative tried or held to account. There is not even an acceptance of error or a conciliatory voice of remorse.

“The campaign to confuse the American people has been intense.”

Source

"message from a poor syrian"

Im calling a huge load of bullshit on that one

Even if some random poor Syrian said that. Why would he be considered a reliable source. Poor Syrians can be just as delusional and stupid as everyone else.

All we have to do is open our eyes.

And yours are very closed.

[deleted]

This subreddit is always taking things to the extreme. You cannot get rid of corruption in a very large system unless you change what corruption means.

[deleted]

I could not agree more.

There is a conspiracy but it has nothing to do with 9/11. It has to do with the rich and powerful writing the script that our politicians act out.

Trutherism is a joke. I've debated hundreds of truthers and all of the evidence in the world won't make them admit they're wrong

Then you would get mod conspiracies, it never ends. Truthism is almost always logically wrong, and that is some delicious irony.

You basically need a "Million Man March" for an extended period of time across several, several major cities across the US. So you need several tens/hundreds of thousands of people to quit their responsibilities and go and protest at city halls, capitols across the nation. But it needs to be well organized, people need to have specific demands, it needs to be a movement, and it needs to have good leaders.

There are a lot of people willing to follow, but very few who are willing to lead. And be wary of those who are, because it is a rare person that leads as an equal.

The dollar is worth shit, everything is super expensive so it's almost impossible to save money for the majority of Muricans. So, how are we supposed to eat while we skip work and protest?

We need a big change not a small evolution.

Bring back the guillotine?

bitch about it on social media, then forget about it a week later.

there is absolutely nothing that can be done, and let's face it, the general population just doesn't give a shit

welcome to reality kid

Tell 1917 Russia that nothing can be done about it.

1917 Russia compared to 2016 United States are not the same moron

Someone should go to the FBI and file a report, post it on twitter and encourage anyone with more information to step forward.

You don't do anything, because you can't do anything.

You can't, but we can. It all depends on how many people can act, together.

We the people are too busy being divided into Team A vs. Team B on every issue.

Team Edward

Snowden

real shit b

nothing will be done by anyone

Honestly, until a great deal more people recognize what's going on, there's nothing that can be done. Things are going to have to get a lot worse for the kind of changes you're hoping for to occur.

First thing we need to realize is that change won't come via easily-manipulated elections every 2-4 years.

There has been enough evidence for quite some time now. All we can do is just continue to bitch and moan.

GROW CANNABIS AND BECOME SELF SUFFICIENT HELP YOUR NEIBHORS SO NO ONE HAS TO RELY ON GOVT PROGRAMS

As much as I like to smoke weed, it's not the answer to all of life's problems. Also your CAPS LOCK is stuck.

where the fuck did i say smoke it?

HEMP MOTHERFUCKER

Hemp is extremely good for anything. Strong ropes, clothes, degrable hemp plastics, shampoos, topicals, etc. etc.

But yeah make some cbd oil too so you never need to rely on chemo.

Think of USA like Rome. There is a centralized power, but it cannot possibly extend and patrol multiple areas far off from D.C. Small, and local power moves, strikes, civil damage, etc.. guerrilla tactics.

Real, tangible movements. Mass arrests would be the best case scenario. Many other people have said in this thread, that is seems hopeless because people are so fucking comfortable with their lives. Unaffected, uninterested. That is the majority. There is a small group of people like us. There are many other small groups outside of this place that would join. Hell, think of Native American tribes. Nothing about change is easy. It is a labor, and with labor comes pain and suffering but at the end something beautiful is born.

If you haven't heard about the Battle of Athens it's relevant and a good read.

URL: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Athens_(1946)

Edit: URL fixes

One veteran said he "thought a lot more about McMinn County than he did about the Japs. If democracy was good enough to put on the Germans and the Japs, it was good enough for McMinn County, too!" -Serviceman away at war. Relevant quote to our times.

How about a good old military coup. There must be some of your high general boys sick of the game and wanting to give it a whirl. Ho Chi minh the fuck out the whitehouse

Lol

Like snowden just said in his live event, the change has to be started locally. We need to elect officials that will fight for us, not against us.

Become self sufficient...educate yourself about science and technology. That is the only way the masses will get the power back.

Whine on reddit.

One obstacle is that they had made corruption legal.

Its simple. We start a National Skip Your Mortgage month

Or the annual holiday known as "don't pay your taxes year"

I've been on that holiday now for a bit :) they make money out of nowhere anyways.

Nothing, you can't do anything. You need co-ordinated action and that isn't going to happen with 2/3rds of the country sucked in by the BS currently being spewed by presidential candidates. Anything you do try to do will be crushed before it starts. You are not taking on a bunch of elderly crooks who don't know what they are doing, they are well practised and their interests are well and truly covered, backed by a powerful army - also on their payroll and the scenario you face has been engineered very carefully and methodically and 'they' are not about to let a bunch of upstarts shut down the party.

Normal everyday people can't agree on jack shit, they need to be led, they also need to be convinced of the cause. Right now, convincing someone to throw away everything they have to join some half arsed militia probably isn't the best proposition and any traction gained will go to shit fast without co-ordination and and end game that you are pushing towards - with solid, unwavering agreement among constituents. If you've nothing to offer outside of some faint hope things might be better at some stage, then it's even less reason for anyone to be upset enough about to want to start fighting. The best you can hope for is that society slowly crumbles and the whole cycle repeats itself again without too much bloodshed, famine and misery, with the inevitable new blood rising from the ashes. Another pretender to the throne, someone else to bullshit the people for their personal gain and well being. Create an empire with friends and like minded people, control trade routes, resources and commodities. So you're straight back to needing a plan and you have to have one that works and takes everything that's happened so far into consideration so a 'brave new world' isn't just another in a long line of doomed societies and cultures. Talking of cultures, those and religions will be your other enemy, existing regional groups and associations will bind people.

When you sit down and think about it, you have to realise what is happening and try and eek out an existence within that framework, because in this day and age, trying to pull down the establishment even in the slightest way, will quickly result in incarceration and/or death on a larger or smaller scale. It's one thing being aware that you're getting shafted but another to realise that the odds are massively stacked against you and that's the way they like it and how it has been orchestrated so for centuries. The information isn't hard to come by, now it's a google search away and the irony is that those who hold the reigns of power no longer try and preserve the 'secrets' of their business and also know that trying anything to undermine them is a fools errand. Changing the world order is a whole other proposition.

End the fed

End the GOV

Stop paying taxes, en masse.

Dude We've had evidence for the longest time. People just dont care

People know, they just don't know they know and the only person they will hear it from is themselves.

To add something I think is important- we need to get our own heads clear, get over addictions, the coffee and alcohol robot thing, become conscious people. Take psychedelics; find authentic spirituality. Only then will we be in position to overthrow these elite fuckers, and once we're there we may find it's easy. But we have a long, long way to go. Love life, don't be afraid to care.

Great analysis and concise description of the problem, with key pieces of evidence. Here's my best recommendation for a solution:

3D Printers and Homestead farming/gardening. Why?

Because it can decentralize the bulk of production to the individual - effectively limiting the voraciousness of the Capitalism buying our Democracy without sacrificing ownership to the State, as in Communism and Socialism.

Our country is corrupt largely because the hierarchy you described gives massive amounts of wealth and control of resources to a few people who, despite any best intentions, are invariably corrupted by the warped reality which money and power provide. To defund and reduce the power of the hierarchy, we need to stop needing their stuff and their protection. We are controlled mostly by our inability to respond en masse to large threats, by our dependence on what they stock on the shelves, and by what information they put in the textbooks. Our ignorance, our vulnerability, and our dependence on material goods doled out by Oligarchs: land, water, food, transportation, electricity, clothing, shelter; our consumerism and attachment to material wealth; our wasteful tendencies; our apathy toward politics and law - these are our chains.

Growing our own food, and using the incredible low-technology and amazing versatility of 3D printers to create most of our material goods, via not only home use but public Maker Spaces, can cripple the ability of massive conglomerates to buy media coverage, buy elections, buy politicians, and thereby dictate policies which allow them to continue robbing the rest of us blind, poisoning us, mis-educating and lying to us, and experimenting on us, while profiting from the fruits of our labors like we were cattle.

Meanwhile, we need organized assaults on the laws regarding property ownership and taxation in this country. No one here owns any land. Look at a deed; it says you're a tenant; a lessee. And you pay rent on your land, in the form of property tax, in every State but Washington, where ridiculous sales tax makes up the difference. Similar problems with water rights, and these insane perpetual contracts that conglomerates like Nestle have to raid billions of gallons of water, for fractions of pennies per gallon, and then sell it to us for dollars per cup, while farmers go bankrupt from drought. And similar contractual rights of oil and gas cartels, Big Agro, Big energy, and Big Chemical to rape the land and leave poison in their wake for us to deal with.

It will involve an attack on Citizens United, and all the limitless, anonymous campaign spending. We need public campaign financing, guaranteed airtime, and guaranteed debate participation for any candidate who meets the required number of signatures. We need to get rid of the caucus system. We need to impose Congressional re-election limits, remove the ability of Congress to vote on its own pay raises, get rid of the electoral college system, and audit, then dis-assemble the Federal reserve; returning the power and responsibility of printing money to the US Treasury.

And it will involve a lot more people studying Legalese; studying the terms of the law. Our ignorance of the legal arena of warfare is perhaps our most crippling weakness. The rulers have devised Legalese as a kind of code language hidden in plain site. It is spoken in the local tongue, but with alternative definitions used for all kinds of words. And courts hold those different meanings as law, not the meanings you're used to using for those words. So they can get you to agree to all kinds of things, admit to things, and contractually bind yourself to diminished rights by speaking this foreign language in your own dialect. It's invasion of the word snatchers, and we need to take our language, and thereby our legal system back. In particular, copyright and patent law are stiffling human ingenuity and progress to considerable degrees, while serving as a legal conduit to ensure the vast wealth of very few people buying up all the rights to processes and information in the world. And corporate law is taking over and superseding our nations' and the world's court systems. We need to stop them.

Ask an anarchist. We've been interested in peaceful revolution for years.

Violence is easy, but it doesn't solve the problem, even in the short term. The goal is to reduce the demand for government, to reduce the supply, and to restrict its powers.

1. Privatize things that the government cannot do better than private industries. No need for a public post office or printed money when we have UPS and cryptocurrencies.

   1. Reduce or expose state income and the money flow between the explicit state and implicit state. Turn civil forfeiture into dispensary taxes and expose the deep relationships between industry and government mandate. Drive wedges between government and the education industry, for example, by moving to open-source textbooks rather than forking it all over to Pearson.
   2. If you hate both candidates, don't play their game. You will be upset either way, so resign yourself to being slightly more upset while making a protest vote for other parties who will seek to destroy the 2 party system.
   3. In your own personal life, learn to rely less on government. Educate yourself so that you can school your own children, or so that you can undo the propaganda they are fed in public schools. Get off of whatever government money you are receiving. Forget social security, start saving for your retirement on your own. Defer to authority less, and solve problems on your own when possible. Do not ask for laws to help you solve problems. Solve them yourself, preferably legally and certainly morally and nonviolently. Give to charity, even if in small amounts. Prove to yourself that you do not need to be trained like a dog to be civil. Prove to yourself that you are a human capable of everything your self-proclaimed masters are.
   4. Erase the hierarchical mindset. No one is better than you inherently. No one is smarter than you or more capable of understanding complex issues. Many people know more than you do, but you can fix that in 6 months to a few years, depending on the topic. No one is worse than you. Almost all people are capable of being better than they are today, and a world with smarter and stronger people is a better one.
   5. Shift power to the local sphere. Take action in your local government to make good decisions and prevent further reliance on or invasions by a corrupt government.

Bingo.

Stop paying taxes.

[deleted]

Yes, dont vaccinate your uncircumcised children.

[deleted]

I barbaricly mutilated my own dick when i was 13 then. Had hypersensitivity to the point of extreme pain and the creams didnt work. But never mind that, you said it was the end of the discussion. Also, i have a sister who is a Dr of pharmacy, went to school for 8 years. Is she grossly misinformed? Or is she in on the government conspiracy?

[deleted]

True, choice is a wonderful thing.

Was with you up until "killed their own people on 9/11"

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/51wryp/two_peer_reviewed_papers_published_in_the/

You mean the ones paid by infowars and that Alex guy?
After all he makes quite some money for making people believe that.

We need to boycott everything. There needs to be a day when we collectively agree to do nothing, spend nothing, and consume nothing.

The sociopaths need highly skilled laborers to do their dirty work. Targeting them, creating a support infrastructure for whistle-blowers, and trying to teach them ethics would be an interesting strategy.

Just keep posting on Reddit. I don't want to imagine a country run by your votes or your interests.

This subreddit now literally becoming full of revolutionaries making vague gestures towards the necessity of violence.

Nobody wants to be the first one to outright advocate violence.

But we all know it's the only way this will change.

We all know but no one has any idea what it'll take for us to reach a point of action, I fear by the time there's somewhat of an agreement on timing it'll be so late the people will start off in a weakened state (starvation perhaps) during a/the rebellion.

Well they screwed us by creating an Act/Law that allows bypass the constitution on anyone they deem a "bad guy". I really think that changed the game (patriot act), were supposed to be able to meet up and openly discuss or plot some 1776 type shit.

Yet if that were to happen they would just nip it at the bud.

Wait till you (are poor enough to) truly give enough fucks. Also, wait till you lose that hyper-individualistic mindset.

Just take all your money out of banks. Stop paying cc companies back and stop paying taxes. We are willingly funding our oppressors.

Step 1: Awareness.

This is the very first thing you need to do. Your media is corrupt as fuck as well, and thats why the Leaks wont reach as far as they need to. So in order to fix that, you need to spread this stuff yourself.

How? First, the Internet. Use memes, post websites, do videos, whatever. Spread the information, and where to find them (wikileaks) far and wide, while also creating a centralized hub for people to discuss this stuff and collaborate spreading it more.

After you got plenty of netcitizens aware, spread it in RL. Contact your local media, regardless how small it may be, and direct them torwards the info. Push them to write articles and do reports about this stuff. If several people are contacting the same newspaper or whatever at the same time, then chances are they at least take a look. Keep doing this until the whole thing explodes by itself.

Step 2: Now it gets complicated. Your goverment is corrupt, and likley will try everything possible to avoid being fucked over. You can try it the normal way, and completly avoid Dems and Reps by going third party, or just walk into DC and take over. No idea what you could and should do really, im not even American so its not really my place to talk about your future, even tho I will be affected by whatever the fuck you guys pull over there.

One thing tho: Whatever you do, dont sound like conspiracy nuts like OP does. Base EVERYTHING you do on the facts you have, not on some theories you cannot proof. Otherwise you will just be ignored.

For any action to be initiated there has to be a tipping point of public awareness and anger reached by the general population. But if you've scratched the surface of "the engineering of consent" and the depth of the government propaganda and public relations rabbit hole, you'll know that their control in this area is quite sophisticated and formidable as it is, at many points of connection, in league with the mainstream media.

But this type of awareness requires a more astute mindset and the control over the population is statistical - centered around the middle of the bell curve aka "the lowest common denominator". That is why it seems our political discourse is so inane - it's not designed to sway thinking people, it's designed to sway the largest number of people populating the middle of the bell curve.

It was also made legal recently by the NDAA for the government to propagandize the American public which is a bit of legal ass covering since they've been engaging in it so heavily.

In other words, it ain't gonna be easy.

Dismantle the federal government. Concentrations of power cannot be trusted. I favor pan secession as a means to this end. Break down governance to more and more local levels.

First.....

I love how everyone acts as if this is some sort of new thing..... this has been government since it's inception. I'm talking Roman times.

Get over the shock now that it dawned on you, and navigate it as the rest of us do. You'll be fine.

Go start a revolution or quit complaining.

Run for office. Don't stop spreading the truth. Sooner or later the information generation will prevail. Progressive revolution is only beginning.

We've known we've had a corrupt government for quite awhile now. The majority of people either don't care, don't know or have other things to worry about. We either have debts to pay or kids to feed. It's not like a revolution is easy for a lot of people to jump on to.

It's gotten to the point where if our government was completely proven to have been behind 9/11, nothing would happen. People would complain, there would be protests and riots, but eventually everything would go back to normal. Sorry for having such a bleak outlook, but in all honesty, I feel it's pretty realistic.

Call me crazy but I kind of just want a free and Independent Cascadia. The proposed areas would include all of Washington, Oregon and parts of Northern California as well as British Columbia. I think It's about time to let states become separate from the USA and all of it's corruption.

"LET'S BURN THIS MOTHAFUCKA DOWN POOKIE!" No but seriously instead of picking up guns we just need to spread knowledge to everyone.

Unfortunately most people are not thirsty.

Can we please retire the phrase "hard working Americans?"

According to some, were supposed to vote Donald cause he'll make it better.

Lol

Whats even worse is that money will be used to kill Americans.

Shake our heads, upvote some reddit posts, and just carry on as normal.

Let's be real. We're too lazy to revolt.

Everyone I know is not too lazy to revolt, we're too goddamn busy working to make ends meet to revolt.

Firstly, a list of the people that have significant influence must be established. Then find out who they sponser and later vote them out of office. It will be difficult, these power players really like to hide their own asses. This is an idea, I do not know whether it will help. I do look foward to reading about any progress, but I think the "elites" already have a tight grip on all of us.

Here you go! At first glance, this website looks like a crazy person website, but it contains excellent information.

https://isgp-studies.com/global_power_structures#tops

Thanks I will check it out!

We get the government we deserve. If you want this fixed, we have to fix our ethics.

We Lie, Cheat, Steal, undercut, gossip, shit talk, abuse the environment, etc. Why should we expect our govt to be different? When we don't value the rule of law, how can we expect them to?

We need to fix ourselves, and hold others accountable for their actions.

what is one point of our society that doesnt need to be fixed?

This is a good point, but seems like a chicken or the egg situation.

The only way to stop it is if a bunch of companies got together and refused to pay corporate taxes and refused to take payroll taxes from their employees... Its all about the money. Lets just stop giving it to them. Keep in mind, those taxes pay for roads, clean water, schools, other good things...but we should have a say where our taxes go. When you start a new job, there should be a form with a bunch of boxes for different categories, and the people should decide what percentage of our taxes go to which cause.

Its all about the money.

I hear you, but realize also that those services mentioned are subpar if not terrible. The water is poisoned, public schools are basically prison training/state indoctrination, and roads should have been mass transit systems decades ago. I like the percentage based approach, but if presidential votes can be easily compromised, yikes.

Yea...fluoride. Public schools are not that bad...maybe from a holistic perspective, but my kids teachers have always been super caring. It is definitely true that their school education must be supplemented with at home learning, but we keep them busy with extra projects. I mean, standardized testing is a mess...but they need a way to measure things from a national perspective.

Remember, that at the local gov't/teachers level, and even at a federal level...things are run by people. There are some lazy folks, some power hungry; but most I have met genuinely care and are trying their best to make things better, at all levels.

I totally agree, we need much better mass-transit. I am hoping Elon Musks hyper-tubes get some Dept of Transportation funding in US. Or imagine a fleet of self-driving solar panel vehicles federally run that park at gathering spots in suburbs, rest areas on the highway and such. You just walk-up, scan your 'car tax permit', get in, and enter your destination.

Regarding tax corruption thru fed hackers, that is a good point, but at least it would give us as individuals some power and I am always hopeful the good people out-number the bad.

Responding to first point. Will need to come back.

I wasn't even thinking of a higher level admitted "poisons" like fluoride. I'm talking lead in the water in Flint, coal dust in NC, and any other known places. I believe I saw another lead-in-the-water story from another town.

What can you do?

Your government is the equivalent of a cheap whore.

Your police force poses more threat to you than any terrorist or gang.

Your police force is also armed to the teeth like a military force. So even if the American military was on your side, they would still get wiped out.

A while back I said that this massive invasion of rights on part of the government need to be seriously checked. EVER DAMN TIME I got multiple responses from people saying at least we aren't like China/Russia/North Korea.

At this point you all are fucked. Even if you want to elect someone decent, your machines are easily hacked, so they get to put in power whoever they put up.

While I agree that the problems are huge... the police would not stand a chance against the military... while they are armed... they don't really have too many ,oh idk tanks, planes, etc. And the country as a whole has police from local to state level (unless you count FBI). The military is single entity that is connected all across the country. I think you are over estimating the police.

Don't forget the training

Wait, who's Willie?

line them all up and execute them for treason.

60-65% of the countries taxes going to fund arms and warfare should tell you all you need to know

"enemies foreign and domestic"

Now, we die.

Every government is corrupt. Government is power and power corrupts all humans especially those who run for office and desire having power over others.

so accept it?

no

reject it.

Holy SHIT! Finally someone who gets it...I thought sure I was the only one...

Buy the new iPhone, eat a burger, drink coke and watch netflix. /s

Is there something wrong with eating a burger, drinking coke, or watching netflix?

Yes, you fat ass!

But netflix isn't food!

vote them out and set up term limits

I suggest taking away the motive for people to exploit others. You become self sufficient and you stop working for them. I know, it's a shock for people but it isn't all that hard. With tech today you can set up a nice home and live a very simple and basic life. Use your labor to live and barter for essentials.

I wish people good luck if they try to change the system but I think they are heading for a violent confrontation. TPTB have built up quite a military and police force to protect themselves. Non-violent protests such as refused to work for them seem a better alternative. Just imagine if everyone in your country in the 99% refused to work for a week and demanded real profit sharing from their employers. It would be chaos as grocery shelves would be empty, gas stations dry, etc. Total chaos. If TPTB don't relent then tell everyone to prepare for a 2 week shutdown. TPTB don't make money when people stop working for them and buying their useless things. Eventually they have to relent.

Rise up,y'all.

Abandon ship.

So what would we do about it? Hire more people to replace them who would eventually become corrupt themselves??

There are very few people in this world with enough Integrity to ignore a dump truck full of money coming their way and the ones that can???? Don't want the job.....

The American people have been programmed to be complacent and are more interested in what Kim Kardashian had for breakfast this morning than knowing what's really going on in the world lol.

first, realize that we are the same species.

edit: most of us are.

Head on over to McDonalds, grab a big Mac, go home and watch some dr.oz and/or Kardashians.

A revolution would be much easier if it wasn't for the illusion of freedom/choice that they've set up, and if the 1% weren't so anonymous

The amount of edge in this thread is nearing cataclysmic levels. Yeah, let's all get our rifles & go take over a bird sanctuary! The US Military will take our side! LIKE TURKEY!

I CAN'T STOP READING

I'm all for a revolution on Manor Farm with the removal of all Mr/s Jones but they're are way to many animals that are afraid. Then there are those who can't or don't want to see the truth of what the pigs really are. Plus everyone else is just to distracted to see what's being transcribed on that old board into the farm.

Subscribe to your local paper. Get involved in local politics. It all starts there.

Dumb question but why or what is the official reason for the aid to Israel?

Quit your job. Stop being a slave to the system.

We need to do this in mass.

Same people who know all this is true but yet still believe NASA

Vote in local elections, for senators and congressmen, and talk about politics in a knowledgeable way.

Well we can vote in people to all levels of government who don't take money from corporations

We

FALL IN LINE

Refuse to vote for either of the two parties that run it ever again?

March a million people to Washington and make a ruckus.

This requires 2 things the average American and redditor will never do.

Effort and selflessness, giving your time and money for the benefit of all with no immediate payoff for yourself.

First of all, you need to go to college and learn how politics works.

Here's a idea. Instead of shouting down the tyrants from the sidelines you get 'in' the system and change it one brick at a time.

Look how well that's worked out so far.

Time to make the green grass grow.

I can remember the climate here the last few years and this feels very different. This feels like something has actually started. I believe the only reason both Clinton's are not in jail is because they have dirt on everyone else.

It's the current politics game. If the Clintons fall, and let me be clear, I am saying I think it is heading this way, there may come a "witch hunt" era like we have never seen. This one would be completely justified though.

Lenin described three prerequisites for a successful revolution:

• The government is uncapable to rule as before. It's weak, it's incapable to perform basic functions
• The vast masses of people can't live as before due to dramatic changes in their living conditions and the wide spread feeling that they do not have anything to lose
• The presence of organized party of ideologically very close individuals, capable intellectually, spiritually and physically to lead those masses towards revolution

So, back to your question:

Nothing.

I think your second point is one of the most important ones...nobody wants to lose their commodities and comfortable lifestyles that they've made for themselves. Everyone wants more and more instead of less and less. Compare this to India's revolt against Britain, they were all willing to give up their lives for the betterment of their country. They weren't afraid of death as people in the west are so when push came to shove they were willing to risk it all.

All points are important The man who made them is behind one of thw most important revolutions inhistory of humankind. The world would be a completely different place without that revolution.

You need to become a socialist. That's the whole issue those in your government are just acting from a capitalist stand point. To them your nothing you don't matter and you never will matter.

Who cares what was written on your declaration. You need to be more concerned with why it was written. As long as you have a capitalist mentality there will be poor and oppressed. How can you be mad at them or even think to overthrow them when they are only following your country's philosophy. It just sucks for you because your on the wrong side this time

First time in his sub since I'm from /r/all and I legit thought this post was satire.

http://xjournalist.com/2016/09/dnc-committee-acknowledges-that-they-created-isis/

Buy a lot of guns. Start training to overthrow these fucks

We need to wake the rest of America up. Too many people are still asleep, still believing everything is okay and we're all conspiracy theorists. I don't know what it'll take to get people to see through the bullshit.

"The government is corrupt, guys! We need more government programs to make this more fair!"

I will never understand how people become so stupid.

You can't get rid of government. Would you rather a government that works for the majority or a government that only serves the interests of a few?

Strong local, community governments are best. More representative, and easier to leave if you really disapprove of them.

This. Dunbar's number.

Bernie Sanders would have been the best solution. How about Jill Stein? Whoever it is, make it a 3rd party. No other way to blow the corporate fascists event though you may not like the alternative choices. No more Republicans, no more Democrats. They're both there for the corporations, not the people.

Every leap year we have a month of barter. No currency exchanges hands unless absolutely necessary.