We are intentionally divided on many levels, race, religion, nationality, income brackets, sports teams, pro or anti union , abortion, political party, city slicker or country bumpkin etc etc all by design

And we're too tired, broke, and apathetic that anything will ever really change.

They don't want us looking up long enough to realize the one common trait we have is that we are all being screwed

MLK Jr. was assassinated because he was on the verge of uniting the American working class.

Holy shit seconding this.

What happened to MLK is part of the reason why people are so weary of standing up to the government, especially considering how far their reach is now because of new technology.

It's like any true chance to change the government would be ended before it began.

I'm sure JFK falls into this category as well

JFK tried to reign in the CIA.

Among others.

He also wanted to go after secret cabals like Skull and Bones.

Source?

his speech talking about secret societies. the CIA and skull and bones are pretty tightly linked.

Isn't this the speech that there's a lot of debate about if it was real?

That speech was about communism

This three hour documentary is a pretty solid look at the JFK and 911 conspiracies, even if it falls a little flat in other areas...

Everything Is a Rich Man's Trick.

There are also numerous films on Netflix chronicling the Bush family's link to JFK (sr. & jr.) will find some and link later on.

And the Kennedy family

And the banks

Try doing that today and it gets you labeled a Nazi.

"Hitler will emerge from the hatred that surrounds him now as one of the most significant figures who ever lived." - JFK

It IS a clipped quote but that is verbatim what he said. Feel free to look up the full context.

Is there a good documentary on either jfk or mlk on why they were killed? I mean the non mainstream reason you don't read about in history text books.

oliver stone's untold history of the united states does a good bit on JFK

When Lennon went on his Peace phase he was investigated by the CIA and they did or at least attempted to revoke his visa.

Nope. He was an evil white man just like we all are. We should all be castrated.

Lol i need another mcdouble

Like all those "terrorists" that are encouraged by our intelligence agencies.

Note the absence of attacks during the election show.

you mean "freedom fighter" /s

Right, (CoIntelPro +40 years of improvement) x the NSA + Social Media= organizing dies in the cradle.

Systems like that work fantastically. Right up until a guy high up on the inside decides "fuck this shit". A la Binney and Snowden, et al.

People are using Facebook to organize against the Dakota Access Pipeline. Facebook. Much like in Tunisia, and the Arab Spring. I'm just hoping it doesn't turn into a fucking shitstorm.

I get what you're saying but we don't need more fear talk. Thanks

If everyone speaks at the right time, our voices can't be silenced.

The shadow government is composed of economic and financial elites.

Bill Hicks and George Carlin have something to say about this.

Nah, I doubt it.

People are wary about standing up not because they're afraid of being assassinated, but because they're afraid of futility and being a martyr for a cause that the general population is too fat, docile, or stupid to appreciate or assist.

I don't have a problem putting my life on the line, for example. But, for what? I stand up, get shot down, and the herd just moos back into their pen... if they ever even noticed. Or, better yet, they celebrate the great disruptor/terrorist is put down and they can all be safe in their homes and not having their simulated reality disturbed.

The people at large, many of whom are the problem, are not worth my sacrifice or even my energies. They're not worth saving. My evidence would be the country itself, how it was born, and where it is now. The people the sheeple routinely vote into office, your Bushes, Clintons, Obamas...

Our country is weighed down by too many who think salvation rests in government and want more of what got us/them here.

Fuck those people. They can get obese, have their limbs chopped off, die of cancer and beg for socialism to subsidize their own agency. We ARE inundated with useless eaters and liberals.

If people could believe there was a goal, and a purpose, and believed that the people of this country who've let it go to shit were worth the work, then several people would willingly stand up. But we're not and so they don't.

Very true. He was shot before he was about to go speak to Memphis public sanitary workers I believe, his first time rallying for the poor as a whole and not just the civil rights movement. Also, he had been planning a march and occupation of Washington DC by poor workers. His focus was shifting to helping the poorer classes and he was killed for it. Brave, brave man.

Fred Hampton broke all racial barriers with his speeches and they shot his house up in the middle of the night while he was asleep with his pregnant wife.

This is why the mainstream historical narrative focuses on MLK's equal rights movement rather than his working class and anti war movement.

Yeah he definitely would have led a socialist uprising had he had 15 more years.

I noticed on MLK's memorial in DC that they totally whitewashed his words. Not one word among dozens of quotes mentions ani-war or class struggle that he so often spoke out about.

Agreed, I was shocked when I first heard MLK's anti-war speeches. That's when I realized why he was really killed.

Same goes for John Lennon

I felt the same way. Lots of generally acceptable quotes about equality, none of the hard hitting lines. But I suppose that's to be expected. The Jefferson Memorial was fairly bland and pro religion too. FDR's memorial was a bit better, but it still lacked the punch of his proposed bill of economic rights.

Explain more plz

Martin Luther King Jr. work transcended racism. He broke the law. He was arrested (nearly 30 times in a decade). He spoke at 2500 events and wrote five books. He peacefully demonstrated. You cannot honor him and his life’s work unless you recognize that his work transcended race.

Dr. King spoke out about income inequality, civil rights, social injustice and against war – all things conservatives feel have little merit within the political sphere and therefore have ignored as part of King’s legacy. Mr. King is not remembered for being a leading American socialist. He wasn't simply a civil rights advocate, he was a human rights advocate. His memorial in Washington D.C. should reflect this.

uniting the american working class with a basic national income, he started talking about poverty and how more whites are affected by it than blacks, he knew the cause of division was poverty

Fred Hampton and the Black Panthers were also targeted because of this. Toward the end of their operation they started uniting with other minority groups, (LGBT, Hispanic, unions, etc..) that's ultimately why they had to be taken out, because if these black people could start a revolutionary group and succeed in galvanizing the working class, they'd have some serious shit on their hands.

Anytime you attempt to move into organizing the people collectively you're a "threat to national security"

Great man.

Anybody who wants to truly change this country will have to get in with the crooks to get it done, because quite honestly the crooks run EVERYTHING and will kill you before you do anything significant.

Yeah and he was a socialist and the is government and businesses didn't like that very much

And yet his assassinator was James Earl Ray, a southern racist we assume? Well Earl Ray hired an attorney claiming he was part larger conspiracy helped out by a larger cell and a vague man "Raul."

This secret power either builds division to the point where it can fuel murder, or plan it and pin it on a target using the tension they already fuel and conquer with.

RFK too.

This email will tell you all you need to know.

And as I've mentioned, we've all been quite content to demean government, drop civics and in general conspire to produce an unaware and compliant citizenry. The unawareness remains strong but compliance is obviously fading rapidly.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/3599

Why hasn't this been publicized more? First time I'm seeing it and I have stayed as informed as possible.

I try and link it as often as I find a relevant comment chain. I think it's one of the craziest emails.

This is another that I find astounding that I try and share when I can:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5753en/absolute_proof_of_off_the_record_media_collusion/

They were both in the early batches, but not the first or most recent so they got buried among the others.

Holy shit, can someone tweet Diane Sawyer and all her why she's on that list??? I don't have a twitter account.

Because he's taking it out of context. He talks about a mistake the leadership of both parties make. It doesn't mean he endorses the policy, instead he points out how Democrats don't realize that Trump is abusing the situation to gain votes.

It doesn't change the fact that they are doing it and aware of it. This election is not a Republican vs Democrat issue - that's what they want you to make it.

B-but r/shillaryclinton's top post is making fun of the emails. They say that everything is a non issue, yet the Russians are the cause of these non issues. Who am I to believe?

I believe Russia over Hillary.

Assad 2016.

I think Hillary created the fire and the Russians (as any opponent would) are adding the fuel. So who do I choose November 8th? The corrupt oligarch or the billionaire bully backed by Putin? Either way you cut it, we are going to be stuck with a member of the wealth class dangling a carrot in our faces while they run away with all the fucking money for them and their crony friends. We have the illusion of choice.

Sorry silly question... Who is Bill Ivy and what's his connection to Hillary?

Not a silly question.

Bill Ivey

Ivey was appointed chairman of the National Endowment for the Arts, by President Bill Clinton and served from 1998 to 2001.

Ivey has written and lectured extensively about the importance of cultural policy and the value of cultural engagement in the pursuit of a high quality of life.

Following government service Ivey founded the Curb Center for Art, Enterprise and Public Policy, at Vanderbilt University, serving as director from 2002 to 2012. He returned to Washington in 2007 as Team Leader in Arts and Humanities for the Barack Obama presidential transition.

That would explain his insightful email. Thanks for sharing it.

And that's not true? Sorry, I don't understand your criticism, here.

Carlin on education:

But I'll tell you what they don't want. They don't want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don't want well-informed, well-educated people capable of critical thinking. They're not interested in that! That doesn't help them. That's against their interests. That's right! You know something? They don't want people who are smart enough to sit around the kitchen table and figure out how badly they're getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fucking years ago. They don't want that! You know what they want? They want Obedient Workers – Obedient Workers. People who are just smart enough to run the machines 

Bill Hicks and George Carlin were good people.

Not only that, but so many people are misinformed and distracted with the media who doesn't cover a lick of it.

I wish I had gold for you...This one sentence says it ALL.

They call us useless eaters, but that is projection. There are producers and parasites. They believe they are the producers, because they own property and pay people as little as they can to work it. In reality, they consume while others work to create it. They are the virtually useless eaters and it is evident by their infinite appetite. They are slavery seeking beings. Slave seekers are the useless eaters. They are the parasites. When they suck too much lifeblood from the economy, we all suffer. If they are forced by labor or competitor competition to go on a profit diet, the economy improves. It's not rocket science. They are value sucking black holes that need external restraint to temper their infinite greed. They know very well that they're screwing us.

Its because we are ffrogs in a pot of water that is slowly getting warmer

We are poor, lazy and pathetic and would rather sit on our ass all day.

That sounds pretty sweet, tbh.

Point proven

Why in the ever living FUCK should I go out and protest? AMERICAN IDOL IS ON STOP ANNOYING ME WITH POLITICS.

Yep, that guy's a maggot coward motherfucker. Fuck you u/Nowin.

k

blame the victims, they Love It When We Attack Eachother

Fuck the victims and those who think in those terms.

Charming

I'm not here to charm you. My previous response wasn't even for you, as this one isn't. But it is, instead, for someone else who might read it who will never comment. It is to break people out of this pattern of self-help voodoo bullshit vocabulary and weakness.

"you're lighter than air and a victim." Well, no you're not. You're simply a victim of your own choices and actions/inactions. That is to say, not a victim at all.

You know who a victim is? The whistleblowers who've had their heads blown off and tossed in a dumpster to bring you this information to squander while complaining about what a victim you are.

Me too thanks

Warm water is very comforting until it starts to boil.

feels bad man

I love this metaphor lol

The only thing wrong with it is that it's wrong. The frog absolutely gets the hell outta Dodge as soon as the heat becomes a problem.

yes the metaphor about frogs getting slowly boiled alive is not scientifically true

But it still make a good metaphor.

..and grist for song material too

Please make it an accurate metaphor before it's too late.

Not if you put the lid on once they get agitated enough. Then it's too late.

That's what I took it as, that we're slowly waking up..I could be wrong though

And as soon as the corruption becomes too bad, we will likewise start scrambling. Unfortunately, the lid will already be clamped on by then, too.

Actually, I'd argue the exact opposite.

We are fat, lazy, well-fed, and we have really great TV shows to watch, along with News outlets that get to channel faux rage that makes us feel like there are larger powers that are fighting for our viewpoints.

Thanks a lot, Aldous Huxley.

I like to think the rulers read the books 1984, and brave new world and decided the best way to rule the world is to have a mix of both books

These are two of my favorite books! However I still don't like the idea of them become reality...

[deleted]

Ignorance is bliss! That's true though, even the odd ones out got sent to their own island. Somehow I still find it unsettling. Probably because the process of getting there would not be so happy.

Faux Rage is a big one.

People are getting bent out of shape over the stupidest bull shit all the time because it's the Trendy Topic.

War on Christmas

And Christianity

Hate

The 2 most common political stances in the UK:

"Bloody lefties ruining everything"

"Bloody Tories ruining everything"

Relevant and hilarious.

Well they are both correct.

In unison yes, individually no

Yeah this is definitely it. The revolution starts when the TV goes out.

And lets not forget that most countries that have mass protests, also have the adequate safety nets in place to help the folks who choose to participate - adequate monetary assistance and work leave, tax funded healthcare, etc. Comparative countries for us would be those in the Middle East joining the "Arab Spring" mass revolts, which were still far worse off prior to their breaking point.

We have been corralled into a tight pen and it really will take something very major to break it down. That isn't to say we aren't close to that and its honestly terrifying if you know enough about American culture.

Domestically, the American population is like the angry bullied kid that is constantly abused but keeps on moving, no matter how battered they become. But there comes a tipping point where the kid can stand no more and the fury he unleashes will terrify everyone around. And the various factions around the US that could gain an upper hand are even more terrifying. We are seriously inches from the brink of our own "Arab Spring" with Christian radicals that its not even funny. It just happens to be true that the folks with the most guns happen to also be some of the most radically devoted to their faith in Christianity.

Who do you think will prevail in our country at that tipping point? The millenial generation, largely devoted to science based reasoning, willing to entertain socialist policies that benefit the masses, etc? Or the radical Christians with the guns that are already organized?

Fucking scary.

Thats my hope. That the millenials, the kids that grew up with the internet will say enough is enough. These kids grew up in a time were secrets arent so secret no more. It is very difficult to hide things from the masses when there is internet. Part of me thinks humanity has always been puppeted around and its only now with the internet that we can see how they just use us. It seems like we are in a critical moment were we will either fight back or end up in a world totalitarian regime that will last forever.

"Can't someone else do it?"

Ding ding ding, we have a Winner!

As a millenial that frequents this sub i completely and wholeheartedly agree, but i for one wont be the one protesting or risking my ass for this country, ill be in sweden without all the bullshit the US throws in our faces 24/7

Im thinkin of moving to mexico get some land near a river and mountains. I dont truly believe the bible but there is one part that i feel speaks a warning.

Matthew 25:15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’[a] spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

The internet won't be so free much longer. They will clamp down on all of this soon.

Sorry but they own us. Literally. Federally subsidized loans.

But money isnt real. If we can just get enough people to realize this.

If there are enough men willing to kill and incarcerate people over it, it is real.

Sad but true, and to be honest some sort of thing is needed to allow transactions between humans but now it has just corrupted the hearts of men.

As i heard one comedian say on an interview, "the only way things change is through violence, voting has never changed a society"

https://youtu.be/CjhsLq3-ZWE

That's an overly simplistic view. There are many factors to a revolution; the violent ones are just the most notable and easy to discern.

Money isn't real but the power it represents is.

Millennials will start the revolution, when they are 27 with a degree from A respected uni 200k in debt working at Burger King, they will flip

As an older Millennial I can't agree more. But when you're backed into a corner you have two choices. Regardless of my background, I'd fucking fight; Americans killing Americans is the last thing I'd ever wish for. Scary because as others have said, we're being pitted against one another on too many levels.

It drives me crazy how much they divide us into little groups.

Why do you think that radical Christians have the most guns? Of all the gun owners and gun nuts i know (not many but a good two dozen or so) and all the ones i see at the gun range etc i cant say ive ever met one that was a radical christian.

Did you ever ask them about their political/religious beliefs? A lot of them will tell you about how this is a Christian nation, it was founded as a Christian nation and that the country is headed in the wrong direction to be overrun by other cultures - most likely Muslims. They have very deeply parallel political and religious beliefs and don't acknowledge a true separation of church and state. Hell, a lot of them like to point out that particular phrase isn't in the constitution as a justification for their intentions to vote the most devout Christians into political power - meanwhile ignoring the true intent of the first amendment.

I live in Kansas. I'm quite isolated in my very progressive liberal political positions and I see people talk about their guns, religion and politics on a daily basis.

I haven't asked but usually crazy nuts Christians let themselves be known. I must just not get religion hah.

Yeah, I mean, they're out there. But I know just as many people who have guns for other various reasons. Mostly self defense, some fear the government, some just like to go shooting. It probably depends where you are and who you know.

Jesus. That sounds extremely plausible. What would set off the Christian right? Would they take the south and the mid west with them?

Honestly they won't be fighting eachother. both seem willing to unite to take down wall street.

I'm not worried about what happens at that point in time. I'm worried about the power vacuum that follows.

I think you are being very naive if you think the kind of religious insurrection going on in the Middle East couldn't happen with fanatical fundamentalist Christians in the US who currently feel deeply threatened by the current state state of things being fed to them by the television.

No no I get that. It really depends on how the groups work together during their group goal though. If Millenials (many of which fall into both categories still), are able to treat fundamentalists with respect, and they are able to find comprimise and be willing to find a way for everyone to move forward, then fundamentalist christians will be way more apt to work together.

Fundamentalist Christians have deeply entrenched values about everyone having the right to have a life and work for a good one. If the Millenials who are trending towards other religions are willing to really listen to fundamentalists, then I believe progress can be made in both groups finding a center.

As it stands now, Millenials are not doing a good job of this, and seem to be pretty content with bashing Christian Fundamentalists in the face with changes and telling them to suck it the fuck up, so yeah, parties are pretty entrenched at the moment, and feelings are hurt. We're gearing up to be a new Isreal/Palestine, Sunni/Shiite conflict right here at home.

Get your popcorn world. Not that it matters, I am doubtful there aren't other major powers keen on 'bringing order' and obtaining a shit ton of natural resources by invading the minute we turn into a clusterfuck.

Right extremists are the boogey man. Too much unrest? Terrify them into voting for Clinton.

So...the American population is a schools shooter waiting to happen. Sheeeeeit.

Technology seems to play the biggest role in what has disabled us from standing up to the powers that be. Using it to help us assemble doesn't really make sense but maybe we should try focusing on using that technology in a different way.

If a single tweet or Facebook post by one influential leader has the ability to destroy a pharmaceutical's stock...imagine what all of us could influence. Let's continue being critical but let's focus that critique on their food source - money. Sure we all need to go to work but do we need to watch cable television? We could influence viewership to drastically decline. Name brands - is that really necessary? Black Friday - forget it. Let retail sales suffer. Concerts and games? Start going to less of them and see what they try and come up with. When the large for-profit companies realize just how pissed we really are...they'll start lobbying for us.

Also an older Millennial. I'm afraid of being targeted by the radical Christians with the guns. I've thought about buying a firearm in the past for recreation, but now I'm thinking I might need to protect myself from the Morality Patrols.

Fear is how they divide us. Hope is what unites us.

What state are you in? Just curious.

the jews because they are willing to do the most underhanded shit and already dominate all our politicians

and they will more than happily exterminate any threats to their dominance with the help of our brain dead infiltrated law enforcement and military

i resisted this view for a long time but it is too obvious

Why do you think it's all Jews and only Jews? It's not.

Look, 911 was in the jewish and israeli national interest, not christian interests, not muslim interests.

Israel is expanding its borders and the extent of its influence, as the usa disintegrates while a few extra sheisty goyim are enriched in the process.

What you are saying is that because cheney gets rich and writes a bunch of pretty essays about 'american century', some white people are in on it to. Cheney and the Clintons are in on it like Fredo was in on it.

Socialism will never work, never has worked.

Worked pretty well for the USA over the second half of the 20th century.

Socialized democracy up in the Nordic countries looks pretty sweet.

I think you're right about the apathetic part, but I believe that the reason why is that we're NOT broke. We have wealth, our essential needs, and more. That's why we're not willing to risk going against our system, we don't want to lose those things. We mostly see big protests in places where there is widespread poverty, it's because they don't have much to lose, but a lot to gain.

It's not quite that bad yet all over, so most people carry on.

"First they came for..."

Yeah, right now it's just black people.

Preemptive Edit: I know it's not just black people. My point is that black people in the US are actively mobilizing. And they are fighting very strong tides with few others reaching out to help them.

Why do you think #blacklivesmatters is the only movement actively mobilizing?

Donations from George Soros?

Also, because a lot of people want to agree with their supposed aims - there are a lot of black people being shot and that's a bad thing and the government should stop it. So BLM are capitalizing on a lot of public sympathy, so much so that even celebrities and Obama endorse them. Also George fucking Soros.

Soros.... the guy that, during WW2, helped the Nazis by turning in/reporting Jews. You know, so they could ship them off to concentration camps. Well, the ones that weren't executed on site that is.

Seriously people, just write your representatives, they never get feedback from constituents. Especially not in large quantities on anything they are about to vote on. I know a few and their main characters molding is that they simply don't know what people want so they just tow the party line because they assume people are happy with the way their party runs things.

People don't write because they don't believe it matters.

They assume Representatives only care about towing the party line or serving money interests.

In many cases it really seems like they are probably right. The goal is reelection, representing the people is "great" but if you start screwing the party they will kick you out first.

This is kind of the problem I have with political action. The system is not set up to be easily changed from within. It would take a massive effort with a very high % of the population, but since the country has such disparate views, never going to happen.

It's like suggesting someone reform the mafia by joining it and trying to convince the Don to get out of the gambling business. It's just not how the business works.

The system is not set up to be easily changed from within.

You might want to think more clearly about what it would be like to live in a society where it was easy to make foundational change to the political system that told the guys with the guns who to point them at.

That's a good point, and it's why I don't support democracy.

That's a good point, and it's why I don't support democracy.

How would it work, in your view?

I'm an AnCap, so numerous decentralized communities based on shared values and preferences.

Want to be a commie? Form a community over there. Want to have a democracy, form it other there. Let people be free to organize as they see fit, without threatening people with violence to get your way.

Dont respect my property? Here's my gun.

What this does is it destroys the idea of a legitimate state with the legal right to monopolize the initiation of force, which to me is the key reason democratic countries today can do so much awful shit - the illusion of legitimacy.

Dont respect my property? Here's my gun.

See, that's the problem you didn't think through. You introduce far too many inefficiencies and transaction costs when every routine interaction between strangers - like, say, trade - has to occur between two people who think they might have to defend themselves from the other. Guns can attack as well as defend, after all, so everything I ramp up as a defense, you have to treat as a prelude to attack and therefore match or exceed, for your own defense.

Merchants with guns and customers with guns soon become merchants with standing armies and customers who shop in roving warbands (after a customer kills and robs a merchant, and a merchant kills and robs a customer, respectively.) Eventually merchants and customers are tired of individually shouldering the escalating transaction costs of armed protection, so they band together and create a space where people can meet for business but are collectively defended, with deep suspicion cast on anyone who says they need their arms for "defense." (Because they're already defended.) And, of course, the armed guards are sworn to initiate force dispassonately, evenhandedly, for the benefit of all, and only to defend the commons.

Boom. Now you've got the monopoly on the initiation of force and given the AnCap game away completely. It didn't require a government or the imposition of it from outside; it was the natural evolution of trying to live and get anything done under anarcho-capitalism. Eventually one of the merchants figures he can enjoy the benefits of the guarded free market without having to kick in his share for the guards, and now you have the dilemma of unlimited free riders vs. compulsory taxation, and guess which direction that winds up going, too.

I'm assuming you're not familiar with AnCap theory. It wouldn't be as you say. Police and insurance companies would provide the backing to contracts, not people running around with guns.

Can provide some reading material if you'd like.

By having competing guard companies, insurance companies, and courts, you create an economic incentive to do right by your customers.

I'm assuming you're not familiar with AnCap theory.

I'm entirely familiar with AnCap theory. Most people are. The only people who think it can work are the people who aren't familiar with it.

Police and insurance companies would provide the backing to contracts, not people running around with guns.

That's what police are - the people running around with guns (and the monopoly on violence.) If you have police, you don't have anarcho-anything by definition.

Ultimately, a system based on adjudication of contracts rather than laws winds up with contract terms that are assumed to be agreed to by your physical presence in a jurisdiction, and a body of "standard interpretations" of contractual terms (so that adjudicators don't have to tediously rule on identical contracts in identical ways, over and over again) and boom, now you have statutory law. AnCap can't work because the natural evolution of it is to establish everything AnCap stands against.

I'm entirely familiar with AnCap theory. Most people are. The only people who think it can work are the people who aren't familiar with it.

That's like saying most people are familiar with Marxist philosophy, which simply isn't the case. The thousands of pages of austrian economic literature, plus the thousands of pages of legal theory, ethical theory, and social theory from ancap/libertarian perspectives are things most people never touch. Hell, most people barely know the civics behind democracy and their own government.

That's what police are - the people running around with guns (and the monopoly on violence.) If you have police, you don't have anarcho-anything by definition.

You're only proving you don't know what AnCap theory purports. You've assumed that there is only one police, with a monopoly on violence, that's not the case.

AnCap can't work because the natural evolution of it is to establish everything AnCap stands against.

Except 95% of your day is voluntary, peaceful interaction. Unless you're the type that only abstains from raping because you don't want to get caught, you're values line up with AnCap more than you probably realize.

You've assumed that there is only one police with a monopoly on violence, that's not the case.

That's what "monopoly" means, there's only one of it.

Except 95% of your day is voluntary, peaceful interaction.

100% of my day is voluntary, peaceful interaction, because I live within of the collectively secured commons I described two posts ago. I don't live under an AnCap system, which is why all of my interactions with people can occur on a defenseless, utterly inactive security posture, with astonishingly (astronomically) rare exceptions.

you're values line up with AnCap more than you probably realize.

I don't contend that AnCap proponents have different values than I do. I contend that they haven't thought AnCap all the way through - reasonable participants in an AnCap society will react reasonably to the practical problems they face from each other by, reasonably, instituting systems of governance and civil order that are the exact opposite of what is intended under that system.

That's what "monopoly" means, there's only one of it.

And yet there isn't a single entity with a monopoly on violence in a polycentric AnCap system. I'm going to stop here because you clearly aren't familiar with the philosophy. Have a nice day

And yet there isn't a single entity with a monopoly on violence in a polycentric AnCap system.

Then you don't have police. By definition. You have roving warbands in open conflict.

This isn't going to be fixed politically. When it slowly dawns on the weak and stupid that this is what the 2nd amendment is for, then maybe. But we have lots of devastation to endure before these people realize that, and that's if they don't vote away our rights to have guns in between.

Useful idiots.

I work in political media, and am regularly in contact with state legislators and special interest groups with PACs. Can confirm: politicians of both parties rarely stick their necks out for anything unless it's in exchange for some form of monetary compensation by a special interest group during the next campaign season. It does not "seem" this way, it is this way.

Don't write your representative. Don't even visit their local office. Go to your capital and watch what they do in committee, on the house floor. Who they wave to. Who they recognize. Who they'll stop and talk to. It probably ain't gonna be you.

From what I've seen firsthand, the saying shouldn't be "Know Your Representative." It should be "Know Your Lobbyist."

And on that note, donate to candidates who you really think will represent you. If you want them to be accountable to you, then you'd better be the one (of hundreds/thousands of organized average Americans) writing the checks.

The last time I wrote to an elected official I got a letter back saying, "Thanks for your input on whatever proposition, please vote for me!"

Be involved in politics at every level and never stop. Thats the only way to win. You can't let extremists care more than you do. Imagine if the extreme right hadn't co opted the Republican party as demographics changed and both parties stopped agreeing on every "christian" issue. Learn to speak well, make good points, and convince other voters if enough people cared half as much about local politics - like who even gets the party nomination to even run.

Every time I have sent an email or letter (3-4 times) I have gotten boilerplate back. They don't care--ordinary citizens are not the constituents.

Even if you made it super easy to do people wont. If all they had to do was type their name and hit send they still wont. I dont know what it is. It seems something terrible has to happen before people stand up.

They have opinion polls, they get numbers, they get Facebook likes and tweets to their staffers surely?

This is not true. I wrote my senators multiple times as bernie was running. What did I get in response? A canned email asking me to support HRC.

That sounds like a serious lack of personal responsibility. "I don't know what the people I represent want so I'll just keep my head in the sand."

Perhaps the politicians who do care should open their eyes?

They can't read minds, so try writing them. They can't contact you but you can contact them. It's the responsibility of citizens to tell representatives what we want, not for them to ask each and every one of us. It's just how it works.

They can't read website posts? Reddit? They can't see people are pissed on Facebook? Twitter? This isn't the 1800s where letters on horseback are how we get the news.

You can literally see civil unrest everywhere. They are willfully blinded to it.

Wait....you're talking about a serious lack of personal responsibility, yet you can't even be bothered to write to your representative? You expect them to trawl the internet instead? Just send some emails, you lazy fuck. If you can post to Reddit you can email them. You have personal responsibility too.

You don't know what I do, troll. I also didn't get elected on promises to represent a people that I don't keep up to date with. You're likely on here a lot due to your weak people skills so why couldn't a politician's interns?

How am I a troll? You are literally are talking about personal responsibility then advocating political representatives trawling through bullshit social media to ascertain what the people they represent want, rather than advocating direct dialogue between the two. If you look at social media you will see a lot of ridiculous opinions from people who have no idea what is really going on and like to jump on bandwagons and parrot popular soundbites rather than any truths, and you know that as well as I do. Add in all the shills and instigators and you have a ridiculously skewed view of public opinion.

The only way for them to know exactly what you want is for you to actually tell them personally, without relying on the information somehow magically breaking through the wall of bullshit and reaching them.

The guy probably doesn't even vote. Just bitches. Don't sweat em

They ran a platform saying what they would do. Voters supposedly read and deicded this was a good plan and gave the individual a mandate for X years. The individual elected thinks he already has a good idea of the wishes of his constituents because they voted for them and their plan. So why would they go out of thier way to find information they don't need? They presented a plan in the interview and got the job. If you want them to do a better or different job, as their employer, fucking tell them.

Take some personal responsibility. Everyone wants everyone else to be held to higher standards than them. Take some responsibility yourself

What if none of the candidates represent my views

What if I have to choose between an idiot racist morally corrupt psycho and a politically corrupt corporate dick sucking criminal?

What do I do then?

I wrote in Sanders.

Vote 3rd party

Found the Hillary intern. But, seriously, it takes two to tango and they should be doing public outreach with a "How am I doing?" initiative.

Personally, I love that free market capitalism has afforded me great opportunities to live above the fold. I don't care if (nor really want) things to change in the next 4, 8, 12, 16 years and beyond from the status quo. I do, however, hold myself to a much higher standard of personal responsibility than most plebs, so I expect the same from people in power.

Some of them do have a "how am i doing?" initiative. I'm a dem, and my repub state reps ask us to call them on basically every newsletter they send out. Hell, they even respond to "argh i'm mad! i dont know how to fix it but fix it!" letters.

I walk by my US rep's office every day on the way to the gym, never seen a soul in there.

Some of them do have a "how am i doing?" initiative.

TIL

The people who need to protest also need to work jobs 9-5 (the cause for the tiredness), and the people without jobs are resented by the people with jobs.

This exactly. We're trapped. We can't do anything about our problems because we have to work to survive. We're too busy surviving to get up and do something to make a real change. Personally sometimes I'm ready to just jump ship and move somewhere else because things seem so hopeless. I imagine many other Americans feel the same

And it's not like they make "jumping ship" and easy thing to do. It's expensive and not everyone can leave.

This is very true. Although it would be relatively easy to save up a few thousand to get out of the country (selling all your belongings should do the trick if nothing else) finding a way to stay in your new country seems to be the trick. Not everyone qualifies for a work visa. I think that's the biggest thing stopping me right now. I can sell my house and my car and my furniture and I have no reservations about staying here, I've been apart from family before. But how do I stay in the new country and what would I do when I got there? I barely qualify for the job I have here

Nope. Stop being such a pussy

Edit: sorry for being rude. I sometimes feel like this also :/

The Recent health insurance changes have got me feeling this way. My rates have effectively quadrupled. They want half of my paycheck for employer based coverage on myself and my spouse. How am I supposed to live off of half a paycheck? Now I'm going to have to work even more and be even more tired and have even less time/energy to do anything about it.

Word

This is so depressing.

Hope. Be the change we need to be by spreading the info that it is NOT poor people screwing us over.

Stop being so hopeless. This thread is pissing me offf

Kinda hard with party efforts aimed at keeping the status quo, and their extreme abundance of resources.

It's not really even pessimism, it's just realism at this point. People are too lazy to realize or do anything about the government, and the government/two major parties have too much power to allow anyone to lead a movement against their narrative.

Just look at the files on how the FBI treated MLK, and tell me we have hope of non-violent protest succeeding towards anything these days. Violent protest is futile too, I don't want to sound like I'm promoting it.

Times are different. The Internet has opened many doors, let's not declare them closed just yet. There have been many successful revolutions, culturally, politically and spiritually. MLK and JFK are not the only examples in history to compare to. Besides, .MLK was successful in many ways - although you don't mean to be pessimistic you are.

No, still not really being pessimistic.

The internet is already compromised. The US law against government distribution of propaganda was repealed, and there's a federal disinformation branch dedicated to the internet now. That's not even including party internet campaigns, corporate incognito campaigns, or just plain trolling.

It also made public figures rising from grassroots movements impossible. Remember those massive NSA data centers? Get too lippy, and maybe they'll reveal your porn habits to the public. Maybe they'll publish some texts between you and a mistress, leading to public shaming or disillusionment in your movement.

MLK was successful in many ways, but died young because he didn't give up. I didn't mean to take away from the man at all, it was amazing he still succeeded as much as he did considering the strain they put him under.

There are also other ways of shutting down communications, just look at Turkey. Governments realize that Twitter and Facebook can make it easier to stage revolutions, and will just shut them down when coups begin.

It's going to take an awful lot of frustration to get things moving in a good direction. Hopefully, people don't get to the point that they resort to violence before we can start making changes in the traditional sense.

I'm much more focused on discussing what's wrong with the government than trying to start a protest, I'm worried that people won't be educated enough by the time we get to a point to change things to even demand the right changes. Already, we have people springing for Trump, who openly admits that he wants to strip even more freedoms and strengthen the federal government further, making it harder to criticize.

I agree that corruption is a very big problem, and near the top of the list in the US, but people are just creating different problems by voting in someone potentially harmful to democracy.

Exactly, who has the time or energy to protest when rent goes up, wages stay the same and student loans constantly loom in the background. The powers that be have devised a great little system here.

Demoralization, step 1 according to Yuri Bezmenov.

For the lazy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZnkULuWFDg.

I highly recommend watching this lecture on the KGB strategy of subversion.

I'd argue it's even more true on the other side. Too comfortable, complacent, inundated.

I think the level of defeatism in the country is higher than the apathy.

And our police have been by and large militarized. In my younger days I would protest things with no hesitation. We gathered in numbers to protest for gay rights, etc. Now I'm middle aged and frankly the cops scare me to death. They show up in military BDUs, driving Mraps, they have sound cannons, they can drop tear gas from planes, they shoot rubber bullets point blank and throw concussion grenades. Honestly to protest even peacefully is to be willing to die for whatever cause because dying at a protest is a distinct possibility.

And we're too comfortable. They give us just enough to be able to afford to distract ourselves with cheap entertainment, food and recreational drugs.

also by design

Same for the UK yet people here protest things all of the time.

And busy .

There was a great (british) labour politician called Tony Benn, he was interviewed for a Micheal Moore movie. And his talk here fits this very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2f6ojnARxM

On the other hand, a lot of people don't have anything left to lose.

And when we do decide to take a stand, bad things happen. Look what's going on in North Dakota.

Also whenever we protest the government comes at us with riot gear and military vehicles.

No...

Gotta love the defeatism, one of reddit's favorite drugs. Did you not see the Bernie Sanders movement? Are you not seeing the Trump movement? Hillary may have tipped the scales in this election but the people are not going to vote for the establishment in 2020. You might say this doesn't matter, but four years isn't that long. Whether you like it or not things are changing for the better, and thankfully it doesn't require us painting signs and walking through the street.

I see it another way. Most Americans make just enough to get by. Yea it sucks. But we are not hungry. Just tired.

Personally I make enough to have everything pretty much paid. Not enough to buy a house or anything but enough to pay for some things.

There is no reason for me to protest. To take time away from the job that pays me well. Shit sucks but it isn't falling apart. It's about too, maybe, but not yet.

I would say that is where the silent majority or Americans are at

Not until it's too late. Then things will get violent

You forgot lazy.

And the rent is to dam high!

Too apathetic, yes. But it doesn't directly affect our daily life enough. Yet.

The fact that there is a split among the working class between anti and pro union is a huge indicator in itself that there is a problem. A large portion of the working class population would be offended at being referred to as working class. We have been sold a version of the American dream in which the mere possibility of attaining great wealth is enough to put up with all sorts of backwards thinking. Unions have been demonized and community is sacrificed daily in the name of individual freedom.

I think it was Slaughterhouse Five that had a quote that struck the point home for me. Paraphrasing: poor Americans don't believe that they are poor, rather they all believe that they are temporarily financially challenged millionaires.

I've heard that quote in another way:

"There will never be a socialist revolution in America because the masses do not see themselves as a mercilessly exploited proletariat, but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires."

The union division seems self-defeating, but there's actually good reason for it in some places. The town I grew up in was centered around GM and IBM manufacturing plants. In the mid 80s, the union demands became too much and some dominoes began to fall. IBM closed their local plant and retreated to the northeast. GM closed their plant and sent the jobs to Mexico. Conrail sold to CSX and moved key people to Pennsylvania. This whole county was devastated, and it could have been avoided if the unions had been more flexible. The country and the world were on the verge of a huge financial boom and we missed it entirely.

Now we have Walmart and several factories that hire temps at $9-11 per hour as our primary employers. Good job, UAW.

That's a good argument for making unions more flexible, but it's still a weak case for getting rid of collective bargaining altogether imo.

Agreed. If we could limit their power, especially that of those at the top, we might improve the union premise and make it a powerful tool for the workers again.

As it stands, many unions benefit those in charge of the union with very little benefit to the worker.

If you're continually poor over and over again, its because you made that decision i.e. bad spending habits, not saving, dumb decision. A lot of people that aren't poor or rose out of poverty made the proper decisions in their life to better themselves and those around them and they benefited financially.

If you're continually poor over and over again, its because you made that decision

Oh look, it's exactly the kind of thinking that produced this election!

What, you think someone should sit around and make money? It's their decision to make something of themselves or not. It shouldn't be the governments responsibility to pay you for being a bum.

Nope. But instead of blaming people for making bad decisions consistently, I look into why they make them. And the answer is two fold.

1. They're surrounded by and mostly associate with other poor people. They've never really seen good financial decision making in action. It's why they're still poor.

2. The people they meet who make good financial decisions are assholes like you who, instead of properly providing advice, come off as condescending better-thans that they have no desire to emulate. If the choice is between being poor and being you, I know which one I'd choose.

this. very much this. funny how condescending asshole has nothing to say now.

Yup

It costs a lot of money to be poor. You can't make wise spending decisions when you have very little money to work with each day. And it's very stressful, which further complicates the problem. Poverty doesn't have to be a lifelong curse, but it's easy to get stuck in it and hard to get out of it.

That said, the government doesn't make things any easier. For example, zoning laws and building codes can make extremely cheap housing unavailable, and minimum wage laws can make jobs harder to find.

You summed up the dream we are being sold quite nicely. "If you are not wealthy it is your own fault, because some people have gotten rich in this system". But the number of those success stories is getting smaller and smaller in proportion to the population as time rolls along. The truth is that not everyone can be rich and most of us never will be (this is a matter of available resources/population growth, not work ethic). If we accept that reality then we can focus on making life better for everyone, rather than trying to step over our neighbors to try and be one of the increasingly elusive "success" stories.

"America is the wealthiest nation on Earth, but its people are mainly poor, and poor Americans are urged to hate themselves. To quote the American humorist Kin Hubbard, 'It ain’t no disgrace to be poor, but it might as well be.' It is in fact a crime for an American to be poor, even though America is a nation of poor. Every other nation has folk traditions of men who were poor but extremely wise and virtuous, and therefore more estimable than anyone with power and gold. No such tales are told by the American poor. They mock themselves and glorify their betters. The meanest eating or drinking establishment, owned by a man who is himself poor, is very likely to have a sign on its wall asking this cruel question: 'if you’re so smart, why ain’t you rich?' There will also be an American flag no larger than a child’s hand – glued to a lollipop stick and flying from the cash register.

Americans, like human beings everywhere, believe many things that are obviously untrue. Their most destructive untruth is that it is very easy for any American to make money. They will not acknowledge how in fact hard money is to come by, and, therefore, those who have no money blame and blame and blame themselves. This inward blame has been a treasure for the rich and powerful, who have had to do less for their poor, publicly and privately, than any other ruling class since, say Napoleonic times. Many novelties have come from America. The most startling of these, a thing without precedent, is a mass of undignified poor. They do not love one another because they do not love themselves."

Things are getting harder and harder. A few decades ago it was much easier to move up the social ladder. Many of the things that contributed to that are now gone, but people won't accept that reality. Hence they talk about the bootstaps and all that shit. A good social safety net and better infrastructure would impove this nation 100% even if those at the top are corrupt assholes.

Wow

That's all kin hubbard?

The quote is an excerpt from Slaughterhouse Five.

You're poor? Have you tried not being poor? That ought to work.

Like the best dating advice.

1. Be attractive.

2. Don't be unattractive.

No if you want success in business, change 'attractive' and 'unattractive' to 'wealthy' and 'poor', respectively.

You have to take down the US from the inside in order to usher in the NWO. I believe this is the main goal.

The shitty part is, parts of the population would welcome NWO. As long as they get their share of the pie without working and everyone else is on the same level of "equality".

I work hard. I would welcome NWO because there are plenty of people who have been systematically oppressed and because I live in a poor neighborhood, it's blatantly clear. I see good people working hard while their kids get sick and die and they're swamped in poverty.

This system is shit, and the idea that the majority of people who want something more just aren't working hard enough is what drives it forward unchanging.

What makes you think the NWO won't just make that everyone's reality? With competing nations, you at least don't have a centralized unquestionable authority. A NWO is the ultimate system for slavery.

Any New government is slavery? With no exceptions?

Did you not understand what I wrote? With NWO, a unipolar world government, there will be no checks to their authority. There is no perfect system, there is only less bad and more bad. Your thinking is terrible and you don't realize the consequences of what you're saying: because some people are oppressed, everyone should be.

A) I certainly did not understand we were all referencing a unipolar world government lol. I had a sneaking feeling that what I thought we were talking about wasn't as the conversation progressed, so this helps clear it up. Thanks.

B) The idea that because there is only one government, suddenly everyone is oppressed is a bit silly. if only due to it's irrelevance. Humanity has propelled itself forward to where it is now by choicefully oppressing one group to accomplish things for another subset. Pretending that everyone would be oppressed is utter foolishness. After all, if everyone is oppressed, who is doing the oppressing? Oppression always requires 2 groups.

You used the term NWO and need to understand that everyone sees this as a consolidation of power. Maybe you just want to "change the system, man" but don't really have a good idea of what to replace it with.

I don't have any illusions of granduer. I may want the system to change, but I don't for one second believe I'll be in a position of power to implement a 'new world order' when this one is torn down. Personally I think our current system of government actually works very well, but has a parasite sucking the life out of it. So if we have to burn the building down to kill the spider nest, I'd prefer to rebuild the same building, but more spider proof.

There are just some problems you can't see coming 300 years after you build your house the first time.

I would welcome NWO because there are plenty of people who have been systematically oppressed and because I live in a poor neighborhood, it's blatantly clear.

This is EXACTLY how they want you to think.

Exactly how who wants me to think?

They... TPTB... The puppet masters... Those who pull the strings... The global shadow cabal... THE F*CKING ILLUMINATI, MAN

sorry, forgot I was in /r/conspiracy for a minute there lol

Oh what a load of bullshit. There isn't a country on the planet that doesn't have divides over race, religion, nationality, income brackets, sports teams, unionization, abortion, political party, and innumerable other things. By no means is the United States unique in that that regard.

What's more, the United States itself is the closest thing to a New World Order to come into existence since tales of such a conspiracy began to circulate in the 1950s.
No other organization on the planet even begins to rival that of the United States influence on forign nations, not even the UN.

The differences we share pale into obsolescence, when examined next to our similarities. If not for the forces actively seeking to sow discord and division amongst us, one pictures a far different world.

And this is why identity politics is dangerous

This is such a sad truth. The media splinters the people so much that working towards a common cause in huge numbers it pretty much impossible.

But we all do know what is right from wrong......believe me, the real power is with people and not a mere illusion. Elsewhere it always worked.....why not in US?

That's why people can't wake up and see the truth.

You need a non partisan "day of democracy" where everyone-regardless if political stripe-can come out to demand proper representation. Don't let any politician brand it. There's a reason politicians in France give in to the people.

Oy vey! The goyim know, shut it down!

When Lincoln talked about a house divided he wasn't talking about politics, he was talking about how to keep the public from becoming powerful

We are intentionally divided on many levels, race, religion, nationality, income brackets, sports teams, pro or anti union , abortion, political party, city slicker or country bumpkin etc etc all by design

And we all don't want to go to jail

Divide and conquer.

I hate to have a pessimistic attitude, but I wonder, are we too far gone? I wish I knew what to do, it's really overwhelming.

Country Bumpkin, that's still a term

That's how America was supposed to be at its creation. In theory, states would have legislative power over their own territory, and if an individual didn't like the rules of that state, they would just leave.

The problem here is the overreaching grasp of the Federal Govt. over individual states. Less and less are states allowed to govern themselves, and soon they will wind up with only minor differences in law.

The United States was built to embrace differences and division, but work together at the same time.

So who's your football team, Aluminoti?

Entire system is rigged - the divides are so powerful people will readily ignore blatant evidence in favour of supporting "their team".

Too busy making minimum wage and struggling to pay rent and student loans.

It's called 'Divide and Conquer.' It's been used for years very successfully by the ruling class.

I think you're radically underestimating the propensity of people to divide themselves. It doesn't have to be by design; people will sort themselves simply given an excuse. And also different groups of people legitimately have competing needs. You can't make everybody happy - some people get to "win" and some have to "lose."

[deleted]

I see very few calls for unity around here and very many "population X is very bad for us real Americans" compared to how many people upvoted this post.

Some of these divisions are more natural than artificial. I honestly believe Balkanization, as unrealistic and crazy as it sounds, is by far going to be the most peaceful solution. Forcing groups of people that politically differ so drastically to be a part of he same polity is a recipe for conflict.

Nailed it on the fucking head.

Great point.

You have to take down the US from the inside in order to usher in the NWO. I believe this is the main goal.

You have to take down the US from the inside in order to usher in the NWO. I believe this is the main goal.

[deleted]

... for how long? indefinitely? for as long as your generation is alive, and fuck the ones that come after you?

how does it possibly make sense to stave off the inevitable rather than try to accept it and embrace it and make it work the best we can?

I don't think you're racist per se, just short sighted and selfish. those, or just completely oblivious to the fact that there will be no such thing as continents filled with mostly one discernable races of humans in the not so distant future.

Rome fell in large part due to wanting more people to tax, and allowing unrestricted immigration. Early civilizations can do that, but in the late stage of any empire, when they begin great welfare programs, it just attracts parasites and dissidents. It's funny how many of the factors that lead to the fall of Rome are being seen again today. Funny in a morbid way, but funny.

but dont you need just enough israelis to control your news and security services?

and if you dont want them to expand their borders muslims attack you!

That's how you get happy, stable countries. Now tell that to your far left citizens and politicians who keep importing the rapefugees

[deleted]

Your first instinct in replying to a comment about how divided we are is to blame the Democrats. That's pretty damn funny.

1). We are divided.

2). Many don't care unless it affects them directly.

3). Most can't afford to miss work.

4). Most protests/protesters are painted/viewed as something bad. Especially if it involves unions or class struggles.

Also the fact that you could get killed protesting. If not run over by a local police tank, or shot point blank, then you could die in custody. With no witnesses.

America is actually kinda scary. But if you go along, do your job, keep your head down and contribute to the GDP, you're pretty much left alone with your illusion of Liberty.

While our population is rotting from the inside out from the unhealthy lifestyle white collar work promotes, we are tied to those same white collar jobs to give us the healthcare we need to stave off the diabetes, heart disease, and stress-related illnesses that working 40-60 hours per week inflicts on human bodies.

Basically, we are beat down. We know we cannot win. We stamp our time cards until we die.

Edit: spelling of a word

I see all this realization on Reddit only and never irl. Why don't we take a stand? People take hits and are threatened one after the other but if we see this corruption, then why the fuck don't we do something about it? I know that protests usually don't get anything accomplished but damn.....I wish we could bring change to this system that just produces mass illusions.

You wrote: "Why don't we take a stand?"

Well, I for one, am surrounded by tons of signs - signs for our new leader in lots of front yards. It doesn't matter whose name is on the sign because just having it (or multiple!) plunged into the dirt on your property indicates pride in said candidate. Pride is an emotion. You cannot debate emotion.

We literally cannot talk to each other. If we can't talk, we can't organize. And nobody is going up against the US machine without a plan.

And if you ever do start talking and organizing, the NSA is watching and you'll find yourself flooded with informants and agent provocateurs.

I know this, it's sad as shit that they watch our every move but we have to fight back honestly.

Look up "leaderless resistance" and get yourself to Project Appleseed for a weekend.

If you're talking about an uprising with threat of violence then the answer as to "why not?" Is because that's the way wrong move. We're still the most prosperous empire of all time with a very high quality of life. Election reform and gerrymandering are huge issues that need immediate attention but that and most issues need to be solved at the voter level. The small minority that is ready to abandon democracy for a forceful takeover would not have public support and would deservedly be prosecuted for severe charges. Still the best way to be heard is with your vote, especially for local elections. More educated voters leads to better local candiwhich leads to better state and national candidates.

Except there's clear evidence the whole process is rigged from the bottom up. If our votes meant anything then we wouldn't be in this mess.

Of course, I understand what you're saying but I only meant 'fight back' in a figurative way so I apologize.

I swear to God we had an informant or a tracker or something show up last June in our first Bernie meeting. (Before he got big, it was just a pro-Bernie reddit meet-up.)

Our very first meeting, and we had a woman who ended up being an agitator and trying to cause dissent in our group. It was really odd. I know that you always have characters, especially in left leaning groups, but I always felt like this woman was always searching for people's soft spots.

She finally overplayed her hand by directly accusing someone of not being pro-Bernie enough or something stupid, so I kicked her out, since that was the only rule we had - no attacking each other.

She'll still pop up in other groups, except now she seems to be a Republican.

And we're just a small city, I can't imagine why they need trackers in our area.

Law enforcement has a huge budget for this plus a black budget from confiscated cash and goods. It might seem strange but yes there are informants even on a small, local level. I've seen what you are describing (in different groups) and it really can be surprising.

I think that if you look to the middle east you will see how far you can take it before people stand up and revolt. Your system us fucked, but will be fucked for a long time before you do something about it. It's not a US issue, it's how humans work and adapt.

Historically, there are a few factors that almost guarantee a revolt. General unhappiness at the system, lack of social mobility, and lack of food. As soon as a large portion of the population doesn't know where the next meal is coming from you can bet a violent revolt is coming. These were both important factors in the Arab Spring, as well as the French and Russian revolutions.

As long as there is the illusion of freedom and stomachs are mostly full, revolution is a pipe dream. Add to that the counter of entertainment, and most people don't want to rock the boat. As long as we have bread and games we are happy with the system.

exactly

There are plenty of ways for us to communicate. If we need to see each other we can use Skype, twitch, YouTube, whatever. And the idea of communicating is that we can come up with a plan. We know they'll be watching and listening but they're afraid of our power. That's why they use so many resources to keep us down and scared. If we unite, were stronger than any government.

That's what I've been thinking, the people have all the power yet we don't realize it and use it. I'm totally down for organizing something against the system because I'd die for what I believe in. Sadly most people just believe what the mainstream media tells them and don't have any faith in the power of the people and are concerned over stupid shit.

[deleted]

What is this?

agreed; big fat fucking 'if' at this point though.

More like 'when', I think something is coming soon.

This country is the most divided I've ever seen it and I haven't been on this Earth for a long time. Sadly I hope we can organize something because I'd be out there in a second. I just wish that people would open their eyes and notice the corruption that surrounds them.

I used to organize. This is bullshit. You can talk to people about issues affecting you locally and organize around that. I bet you are all pissed off about potholes or streetlights are any other numerous issues that come with living in a community. Democracy in its purest forms is decentralized.

We should all be working as best as we can to build resilient and sustainable communities, to prepare for the coming waves of mass death that will be precipitated by Abrupt Climate Change.

If you want to pointlessly "die for the cause", by all means, go for it. Most people don't care for truth and martyrdom. Truth won't feed your kids.

I mean, without personally going down there and removing these people from office myself, what can be done?

The corruption is all out on the table. Everyone can see it, there's no point in pointing it out anymore.. yet nothing is being done. The people we pay to prosecute and protect against corruption are in on it as well. So who do you tell? You protest to raise awareness... but everyone is aware, so what good do protests do?

Why don't we take a stand?

Because they (the police or whoever is representing authority) will kill you, and you know everyone around is a coward -- or even better, they are incapable of understanding the context for the violence against you, beyond non-compliance.

Still though, wouldn't it be better to stand up than to not stand up for your rights at all?

So I can be the lesson for all those who don't?

You want to secure your rights and have revolutionary change, you have to have the mass, the mob, and tear shit up and make , the oligarchy, the 1%, the aristocracy or what have afraid of their deaths by anonymous hands.

I don't want to stand up for my rights, I want to kill the bastards and their relatives who might try to limit mine. I want them to understand that the only reason they exist is so that they can be a sacrifice for goddess of Democracy.

To the root, my friend, and no where else.

I'm not going to take on some cops "protecting private property."

If you really want to destroy this farce of a nation, this empire of spectacles, then write a book and radicalize the unborn mass against their unborn masters.

Also, I believe the biosphere has a good 30-40 years left until it is uninhabitable by most humans, and it will be bloody chaos until the end. I'm a fatalist, and I accept that humanity is pathogen for the rest of life, and we will be burned out by a planetary fever. So there is not point in being noble especially when the only point will be survival.

You're right about that, we will desecrate this beautiful planet into a shithole if we don't do something about it. But sadly nothing will be done and it will be the biggest mistake mankind has ever done.

Because we will all be dead.

Yes haha

Leaving this system isn't very hard I think. To leave you have to first realize the rat race, materialism, and capitalist society that is largely part of America.

The next step is severing your ties to what holds you back...debt, working too much to live how you want, being caught up with getting that new "x" that just came out.

I think A lot of this can be solved by more informed financial decisions, planning, and simple living. Sure you might not have the wealth of bill gates, but you will contentment and comfortability

Of course these are the steps. Sadly as a 16 year old I can't go and live by myself right now, and I basically HAVE to conform to the system. Gets me pretty down but I'd like to see change someday, and I'd be perfectly down for participating in it.

Start now and prepare for when you can move. Go to community college and save money on instate school. If you can't be prepared to aggressivly pay them loans, learn personal finance and good planning, maybe think of ways to make money from your skills.

Learn to cook and plant. Why not try growing potatoes in a bucket? Very easy and fun. Buy healthier food and don't get that prepacked trash

Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely try growing my own food and planning for the future. I'm a mediocre cook (in the best terms haha) but I just have to learn someday, thanks again.

I'm only 20 but know how to cook pretty nice meals.

The first thing I actually cooked was like pancakes and bacon. Very easy.

Look up how to make lasagna cupcakes, simple and easy. Or something like potatoes soup.

Why don't we take a stand?

You mean "why doesn't somebody take a stand for me, so I don't have to"? "Why isn't an afternoon blocking traffic in the street as effective at change as doing the years of work to gain and hold elected office"?

I wish we could bring change to this system that just produces mass illusions.

You can. The doors of power are ever open in the United States, even as corrupt as it is. It's just something that takes hard work, harder than anything else you'll do in your life, and you don't want change that badly.

Why would I want to hold a position in office if it's all corrupt? These elections seem rigged and the shit ton of scandals don't make it seem that worth it to hold office. So I'm guessing your saying that Dr. King shouldn't have protested in the streets and in his marches, and should have just run for president or another political position? I do want change badly and I'd honestly do a lot to achieve it. But it goes back to my first sentence, I see way more like-minded people on here than I do in real life and that confuses me.

Why would I want to hold a position in office if it's all corrupt?

Because it isn't all corrupt. Because if you want to change the law, that's the only process by which it happens. Literally nobody can be compelled to act against their own interests - or more accurately, what they, perhaps wrongly, perceive to the in the public interest - because a bunch of kids spend an afternoon inconveniencing commuters. Because those people are committed to a vision that operates on the scale of years or even decades, and you get bored in two hours.

So I'm guessing your saying that Dr. King shouldn't have protested in the streets and in his marches, and should have just run for president or another political position?

What law did Dr. King get passed? What structures of power did he overturn? What corruption did he uproot? None, but some of the people he inspired as a figure ran for office, achieved office, overturned those laws, and wrote new ones. Actually accomplished the things you credit to Dr. King. And, not coincidentally, are exactly the same people you've been led to believe are "corrupt." Funny how that works, isn't it? Like maybe there's someone with a vested interest in you getting so worked up and hopeless that you burn down your own neighborhood.

But it goes back to my first sentence, I see way more like-minded people on here than I do in real life and that confuses me.

Yeah, weird, it's like you're talking about a self-selected group or something.

I doubt I would get disheartened and lose my motivation to change the future if it's something I truly believe in. I take back my belief that all of politics is corrupt, but a lot of the people in power today are working for themselves and are filled with greed, and are just concerned with self-preservation. You're basically saying that protestors are wasting their time by exercising their rights. Which is weird, because when the people that you say will run for office and make change happen, who will have been the ones inspiring them? There would have been no revolutionaries there to inspire others in the first place, going by what you're saying.

I take back my belief that all of politics is corrupt, but a lot of the people in power today are working for themselves and are filled with greed, and are just concerned with self-preservation.

Everybody is concerned with self-preservation. Even if you're a genuinely good, will-of-the-people common good type of politician, you recognize that your ability to advocate for your constituents is fucking nothing as an ex-officeholder. You have to win the election to even get a chance.

I don't expect you to believe this - but most politicians, at both the local and national level, are motivated by a genuine ethos of serving the public. That's why everybody thinks their own congressman is "one of the good ones" even when they're on the other team. Because they're almost all "good ones." Sociopaths cannot generally (rare exceptions, like Ted Cruz) garner the support or build enough of a consensus to achieve political office.

And this is still the system we have. Think about that for a minute.

You're basically saying that protestors are wasting their time by exercising their rights.

Yes, I'm explicitly saying that protesters are wasting their time. Protests are always a waste of time - they're a way for young people to vent their frustrations without needing to commit to the tedious, hard work of actually changing society.

who will have been the ones inspiring them?

Absolutely nobody who spent an afternoon chained to a park bench to protest TPP. Martin Luther King, Jr. inspired a national movement of rights advocates and a generation of lawmakers because he spent decades working in his community and becoming a trusted figure. And because he spent decades talking to people, and listening. And because he was lucky. None of which you can do by getting woke on Twitter. If you want to change society - and, honestly, I want you to, don't get me wrong - then you need to plan to do it after decades of work. Work that you need to start now. And it doesn't start with protests, same as how you can't start a family just by masturbating a lot.

Fuck that last line caught me off guard lmfao. Thanks for the debate, I fucking suck at these. I want to make change, people my age (16) don't really want to become educated in anything else besides what's trending. Makes me feel bad because I try to have good discussions with them with facts, examples, etc. and yet I get shunned and ostracized because of my different opinions. Which probably happens in the real world a lot. I would definitely work to make change, I guess I just have to find somewhere to start.

I want to make change, people my age (16) don't really want to become educated in anything else besides what's trending.

I want you to make change, too. If I could tell kids these days one thing, it would be that you don't look to the guy with the gascan and the matches to build your new world. That guy doesn't build, he burns down. Because burning it down is the easy part. Keeping it all running is hard. Sometimes people cut corners when it's hard, and then there's your corruption.

I guess I just have to find somewhere to start.

Start in politics, maybe. You could major in law, or political science. Or you could major in anything and develop a local reputation in your community for representing people in their local governance, making their concerns heard. We used to call that "community organizing" before that became a dirty word.

How did "community organizing" become a dirty word? And yeah maybe, that'd be interesting as hell.

Also, sorry to bust your balls a little. Occupational hazard of adulthood. You actually seem like a smart and engaged kid. I look forward to your future in politics.

Remember that there are powerful people behind the conspiracy theories, too.

It's fine I didn't take it to heart, I enjoy a good discussion anyways. I'll keep all of that in mind, thanks for your opinions and advice. I wish I can make some change someday.

How did "community organizing" become a dirty word?

Oh, right, you would have been, like, 12 or something. Oh, man, I'm so old.

http://www.dallasnews.com/opinion/opinion/2008/09/05/getting-the-com

as an example. The upshot is, I guess you don't have any idea who Sarah Palin and Rudy Giuliani are. (Lucky!)

Ahh I see, and yeah I guess I still have a lot to learn about politics and the time before me haha.

Step one is organizing.

You can organize online, just not through public forums like this as we've seen CTR and other propaganda pushers infiltrate community after community.

Recruitment has to be targeted to people who are likely to join, must be done through PMs, and organization needs to be in places with more security, like Protonmail or the like.

i just think people have become too comfortable in their personal freedoms. most people dont want to die or risk losing their homes or jobs but they are incredibly short sighted. would you rather be dead with no freedoms or living and have no freedoms? whats the point in living if you arent free? how can you have a job and a home, if you pay the government all your money? people are just too comfortable. they may be upset but they are still comfortable. until the government threatens the freedom of the people and makes enough people uncomfortable, theres no way the average person is going to stop giving a damn about their home even if protesting would result in a better outcome in the long-term, the short-term is that them and their family could be homeless without a job, and then whose going to be there for them?

Yeah I've come across people when I try to talk to them they just frankly don't care what happens to the government and their rights and such. Pretty sad if you think of it.

Because you lack a leader to follow and rally people for a cause they might die for.

The leader is supposed to collect all the prideful, greedy, and dumb and put them on the front. This brings more people to the cause snowballing from there. But leaders aren't easy to come by since you all are so terrified of losing luxuries.

I think your first statements answers that question perfectly.

In person we are all trying to be positive for each other. We all want to stand up and do something, but alone, in our rooms, we know it's pointless.

edit: We think it's pointless.

I wonder if the people of the American Revolution said "i dont want to stand up for my freedoms, i might die or lose my job".

Truer words couldn't have been said. We live a life of comfort to be a slave to people that hate us. We know it's broke, we also know they want a civil war between the races, classes and authority. As we speak to chinook helicopters are flying over shaking my house. They let us know where we stand.

Don't say "we". You bought into that system, that's your own damn fault. Along with anyone else who decided they'd like to sell their soul

There's plenty of people like me who don't participate in American society as intended. You are not a victim of the government, you're a victim of natural selection

And that is why you would never do anything to help. It's not your fight

I always say that no one would have chosen this life for themselves. Some made it to the top and made the decision for us

You mean if you do things that help yourself and the nation instead of constantly trying to tear down and reinvent the culture you're in, you won't be treated with hostility? Whoa, dude!

Your being kinda dramatic

diabetes, heart disease, and stress-related illnesses that working 40-60 hours per week inflicts on human bodies

It's diet. Change your diet. And exercise. Stress is worse because the Standard American Diet heavy in grains (and sugar) is designed (??) to promote inflammation throughout the body. Plus all the other stupid shit that goes into growing grains which are truly unnecessary for human survival.

Gawd, this hits so hard because it's so true.

FUCK

The big thing is not being able to miss work for me and everyone I know. We have to eat and a bed and a roof over my head is nice. It's a catch 22. Something biting the hand that feeds.

yeah dissent costs money bro i feel ya

Name checks out.

For real, you expect me to sacrifice shit to make a better world? WTF? ^/s

Sounds like someone with nothing to lose. Some of us have families and kids to worry about. If I'm going to risk all that to fight, I need to be damn good and sure it's the right thing to do.

Im 35 and a single father of a young toddler boy. I understand. And i understand the opportunity hasnt presented itself for it to matter yet. There are no "mass" protests. Once there is organization and protests , then it would be worth it to miss a day or 2 from work to support the cause for a better tomorrow. To stay home at that tkme or to stay at work, would just be shitty.

And just an adendum, most jobs allow for sick days or vacation days. Be worth it to take one.

If I stopped going to work and started standing on the street handing out leaflets, that's not a protest, that's a guy being a nut job. If there was anyone else locally to do it, then maybe we'd have a chance

Yes yes. Understood. It has to be masses. I just replied to someone else saying the same thing. It doesnt matter cuz we arent there yet. Once there is organization of the masses for protest, then days off should be a given. Take sick days and vacation days. Worth it to fight for a better tomorrow.

Once there is organization of the masses for protest, then days off should be a given.

"Should" is your operative word. My question is, who will shut their business down so their employees can mass protest?

I said "should be A given" not that they "should be given". That letter makes a big difference. I meant should be a given for the protesters. At that point, the cause and movement would be worth missing some work for. So yes, the days off should be a given.

Ah gotcha. My bad. Read too fast. I agree with ya

I don't think that the majority of the people that are aware of the political quagmire we find ourselves are content with the situation. I'm not, my family's not (immediate & extended as well), my friends aren't content, my friend's friends, aren't content, my psychiatrist isn't content, my professor's aren't content, nor is anyone else I've talked to regarding the state of politics/America (USA). This being said, only two of the people in that group have expressed that they are afraid though; seriously, the expression of fear = weakness in people's minds and people are growing further and further apart due to use of technology incessantly, political stance, and the media constantly reminding us that strangers are the enemy, and that even you probably don't know people/your neighbors as well as you think you do. The police are portrayed as the enemy in the media, idk about you but I know my local officers and they are not my enemy; they're always there to help when I or my community needs it. Scare tactics are being used by the MSM and have been for years. Terrorism seemed at an all time high this year. Some shit about people dressed as clowns that rob, beat, possibly kill, and prey on children (Haven't seen it personally, but people I know claimed to have seen it). Anyone who is aware of North Dakota knows what happens to protesters, thank god someone bailed them all out. The racial divide portrayed by the MSM seems awful although I've had nothing but positive encounters with everyone who's not my race that I've come in contact with for years now. Despite this I've had conflict with people of my race this year. All this BS regarding Russia hacking the USA/DNC (not true in my opinion) or Obama/Clinton/Biden threatening them with cyber war/NATO moving tanks/troops to Russia's border and Russia moving submarines, ships, missiles, and likely troops as they seem to be negotiating an alliance with China. The hatred of conservatives by liberals, I'm libertarian ideologically, I don't hate liberals at all, but I think those who support Hilary are naive. Regardless, politics is dividing us for 100% sure, some people I know are ignoring the situation hoping it will end and they refuse to speak of it, some people I know who are highly invested in a party winning still won't speak of it, some of us whisper in private about what we really think is going on, but never in public for some reason perhaps we are afraid of consequences/appearing foolish (being labeled as conspiracy nuts)/simple fear of conflict with those who are invested in one of the candidates winning. People can't miss work generally speaking, most people live paycheck to paycheck, capitalism was designed this way/or at least it was a consequence deemed acceptable, even those with savings can't afford to lose a job in this economy; I believe that once this consequence of capitalism (people need to work) was realized it became part of why those in power are trying to get away with shit; no time to protest their BS so people must rely on a broken system to prevent these situation, which obviously isn't working. It's easier to pretend this is a normal election with normal consequences, people are fantastic at lying to themselves or are in the MSM's coma and nothing could wake them up/literally not possible. The only way to unite would be through the internet, which is being watched just like smartphones are being watched, they'd know a revolution before it became a protest, wouldn't get too far essentially. My area isn't affected, nor is the area of anyone I know, yet. I'm injured, walk with a cane at 25, nerve damage, it's healing but I'm in no place to protest physically. There are approximately 180 million people between the ages of 15 and 60, they could possibly make up the revolution, but again organizing it is a problem. I don't know how much of the police/national guard/army would actually try to stop people and how much of those groups would join in. This being said it's possible the revolution would get nuked if it were large enough or at least seriously bombed. Also if there was a a severe revolution, I think China or Russia or both would attempt to conquer us. The situation is a vast mess that is complex and we do not know what TPTB would have in store if mass protests or a revolution took place. Between being socialized to be divided and thus needing the internet to organize on a scale large enough to make a difference; we've essentially been doused with water before we could even spark. Not to mention I think that a revolution would be turned into a civil war if it were deemed dangerous enough, globalists vs capitalists or a race war. Also a large enough revolutionary spark could spark WW3 in order to prevent a national fire, TPTB would rather remain in power in a war that could cost them their lives even if not directly fighting, than deal with a revolution that would probably require them to take up arms at some point and lose a significant amount of the power they have.

In the end I think it was technology that got us in this situation for tons of reasons. A revolution could be an opportunity to decimate the population for TPTB, less people means more resources per person and less complications. IDK what comes next, I am very concerned, I feel powerless. Do I want something different than what we have, of course I do, but until I see a half decent idea on how to right the path of this country for the people, I'm watching in horror like most other people. I'm smart, but not smarter than TPTB, they have many of the best and the brightest coordinating their strategy; some psychiatrists have considered me one of the best and the brightest on my good days, but I'm only one person and the system is designed so that enough of us who are in the top 1% of intelligence will never be able to get together in a large enough quantity to formulate a plan to reorganize the system for the benefit of the populace as a whole. TPTB would probably take me in as additional brain power, but I'm not smart enough for them to seek me out and I'd never them out, nor would I join if asked. I'm for the people, but until we the people have a real idea that has a significant chance of success or are absolutely forced to come together and defend ourselves or the few privileges (wish they were rights) we have left, I will do what I can from the sidelines in a peaceful manner but that is all, especially given my injury.

Paragraphs dude.

Based on the way his post is typed, he was probably on the phone. I forgive him ... partially.

It was, at least, a valuable (for the most part) coherent post.

I mobile all the time, that is no excuse for this wall of text.

He's in the top 1% of intellectual capacity; he doesn't have to paragraph.

He's mirror the lunch any of the two party system with his two paragraphs.

There are two.

Inspiring... well said Sir

I'm genuinely curious if you typed this all for this comment, or if you had this response ready and copy pastad it

typed, I have a bad habit of not being able to write concise comments, unless I am answering a simple question such as yours, I tend to have racing thoughts and I just keep typing until I realize I'm going to have made an ass of myself by typing too much

Trump I found it

Yes.. don't want to piss of our owners.

What the fuck do you do for a living hot shot? Are you self-employed? Homeless? Something in between?

Your anger is completely unwarranted. If your not rage-trolling your just dumb.

you're* you stupid fuck. I'm the dumb one hahaha

You understood well enough to tell me I'm wrong, but have no other response?

Why would I respond to you insulting me, incorrectly at that? You're a dunce

People died on the field so you can vote. Now you wont protest because you'll miss a paycheck. Ouch

People just don't have a choice in that. Most people have a mountain of bills to pay. The elites have made sure we are fed enough and have too many ties to up and demand a revolution.

Go pay a mortgage pay for 3 kids diapers.Try to scrape together clothes so your wife can look professional. Work 80 hours a week and get paid for 50. I understand what sacrifices were made for our freedoms. I appreciate them. I can't pause my life for a protest in my nowhere town that won't matter at all. Life's not black and white.

You've just exemplified your username

Name checks out

No one will blow off work to protest but if I gave you a set of tickets you'd find a way to get there.

True as fuck right here. Offer anyone tickets to world series game or a concert and sure as fuck they'll find a way to skip work. But to make time to fight for the future of their country...nah nobody got time for that.

would you blow off work and get fired on negative terms to go start a protest? people have families to feed and shelter.

So, live more frugally, save more money, get out there.

But remember, you're not a "slave."

Economic slavery is real

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic, but you couldn't be further from the truth.

LOL stop being in denial. What would happen if you decided to stop working?

A slave can't choose to stop working because the matter literally ends you

You said, "you're not a slave". I said, you couldn't be further from the truth. Meaning I am a slave you dumb fuck. Christ in a hand-basket you're inane.

Oh I was just being sarcastic

you're also being an edgy little dick head, have a good day

He misunderstood you, you're the one who got nasty here.

Ever heard of "slavery"?

Very well thought out response.

That's the beauty of the two party system. It keeps the people fighting and hating each other instead of the system.

If there was one party, we'd have a revolution, and if there were three or more parties, we might have real change - but with two parties, the establishment is safe and stable while the people take all their aggression out at the evil opponent party.

Along with a controlled mainstream media

This is important, as it is a big part of what helps the two party system survive. All those people who are not critically thinking for themselves rely on the TV to tell them what is going on in the world.

When my family had one of those rear projected TV's, just before dinner the news would come on, I'd call it "The Projected Narrative". My father never understood it, even though I had explained it. This was around 2002-03.

I think that Obama's immediate departure on some of his campaign rhetoric, combined with the financial bail-out, opened eyes of Democrats. As time went by the FOIA documents increased, Anon and Occupy happened and more eyes opened. Remember that baby boomers had a life of indoctrination and confirmation bias is a powerful human trait. Sometime people are changing but don't know it. They hear something, reflect for a second, and then move on. Each of these experiences has a cumulative effect. My epiphany was the result of my new understanding of history with the filter removed. Context is vital. When I realized the depth of the coups in the 60s and the brazen conspiracies resulting in JFK, MLK, Jr., Bobby's, and MX's deaths and heard POTUS Transparency label Snowden a "traitor" I understood that it was 1-Party. Within a relatively short time people began fleeing the Dems, even before Sanders announced. I'm surprised by the number of people who have left the Party and will not participate in a rigged system designed to benefit the elite. As more information is revealed people struggling with these issues will join with others for the real 2-Party system: the Party of the people and the Party of the govt.

Jesse Ventura says we need at least 10 parties.

I'd say, the more the better. But I do wish that we would just get rid of parties altogether, because eventually they create an ideology. As far as I know most people are not strictly "liberal" or "conservative" but a mixture of the two, falling somewhere on a spectrum.

Eliminating parties and just focusing on individuals running for office would be more effective in my opinion. But maybe it would turn out just the same.

There are 3 parties on the ballot in all 50 states. It doesn't mean shit because people like you ignore the third party.
Edit: spelling

The issue is First Past the Post Voting.

I've seen this parroted a few times. This is not an issue. Yes the winner takes all. The spread still has an affect on future election funding, and I'd rather vote with my morals than allow fear and defeatism to push my vote elsewhere.

With a first past the polls system, it always comes down to two parties. A third party in our system just ensures the more closely aligned major party loses.

A vote for Gary Johnson or Jill Stein is essentially a vote for Trump since he's the underdog in the polls.

Ive found that this explanation makes it click easier for people:

"Assuming you have two candidates with a majority support you have 3 options.

A vote for either candidate which is for that candidate.
A vote for a third candidate which is a vote for whoever is losing.
Not voting which is a vote for whoever is winning."

First past the post and the electoral college need abolishing.

Hillary has committed treason. Trump hasn't. I'm voting Johnson, but if Trump wins because Johnson or Stein pulls a decent percentage I will be ok with it. No matter how hateful he is, he hasn't committed treason.

If deleting emails from an FBI investigation is treason...then the RNC committed treason when they deleted then President Bush's emails off the private server they hosted for him to cover up the fact they fired judges for political reasons.

Guess we can't ever have a Republican in the office either.

I was considering on an individual level. I am in complete agreement with both major parties being dismantled person by person, and tried case by case to clean out the corruption. Likely this would be incredibly costly to taxpayers as the parties are likely corrupt completely through. And while costs will initially fall to taxpayers the cost could be recouped as a result of any fines, or ill gotten funds seizing that results of guilty verdicts.
Edit: clarification words

I mean, look at how people are responding to BLM. They're being demonized just for trying to use classic disruption methods to bring public attention to the cause. Occupy Wallstreet? No leadership, no political clout, so they weren't taken seriously. And the impact the movement actually did have on American political discourse (viable candidates using the term 1%) is often ignored.

NO DAPL? They're getting cracked down on HARD by the police. It's not that we don't protest in America, it's that there's a lot holding us back in individual instances. "Our system is shitty" is too broad, so any old Trump can just hijack all of that sentiment for an agenda that's DOA. And non-protestors tend not to give a shit about more specific issues.

Thats the double-edged sword of decentralized protest movements. MLK / Malcolm X provided leadership and a symbol to rally around. That single leadership role also provided a target for government to target, disrupt and assassinate. I think Occupy was starting to find political clout, hence the country wide coordinated effort to dismantle all the sites at the same time. (Fusion centers run by CIA / LEOs --Local Enforcement Agencies). BLM is also being hindered by their reliance on social media to communicate. Opsec is poor in that group. Also - once the press at any of their protests are shunted into the "allowed press zones" any arrests / brutality can take place away from the cameras. Police / Government agencies have learned their lessons from the Civil Rights movement. Control the press, control the images going out, you will control public opinion on the matter. We'll never see photos of police dogs attacking children or cops using firehoses on the national news again.
Police crackdown on DAPL has effectively controlled the press narrative. Coupled with the fact that I'd guess that 50% of the american public don't care that Native Americans are being brutalized by the police / private security forces.

Bold claim saying Trump's sentiment will be DOA.

I said his agenda is DOA. As in, his impractical wall, his Muslim ban, 45% tariffs which will cost very powerful people billions and billions.

Hell, even look at Bernie Sanders (whom I supported) and Jill Stein (whom I supported until taking a look at her plans). Very anti-establishment, but who wanted to enact that sentiment with policies that aren't grounded in our current-day reality (Bernie wasn't as bad on this - I'd vote for him if he were the nominee). What we want these anti-establishment to do is result in a candidate that is as anti-establishment as these movements, but who knows enough about that establishment to do actually move toward the goal of transforming it.

Uh, that would be Trump. He was an insider for a while, now he wants to "tear it down" (his words) and put the government back into The People's control. Have you heard of the Drain The Swamp statement recently? If not, I can point you in the right direction.

How can it be Trump if the vast majority of his policy ideas are asinine or nonexistent? And when is the last time the government has been in the people's control? And how will reducing taxes on the rich to their lowest point since Reagan give The People more political power?

Trump has said nothing about the winner-take-all, first-past-the-post voting system. He's said nothing about gerrymandering. Nothing about unequal access to education. Nothing about drug decriminalization. Very little in general about the aspects of the establishment he actually aims to fix (other than trade deals), and nothing about how he could viably do so (or at least move in the right direction). Any candidate can go "the system is rigged" and get applause. I'm looking for a candidate who actually understands the ways in which the system is rigged and has a practical agenda for starting the unrigging process.

How can it be Trump if the vast majority of his policy ideas are asinine or nonexistent?

What? Which ones are asinine? It's likely you have a misunderstanding of many of them thanks in part to the media. His policies are outlined on his website.

And when is the last time the government has been in the people's control?

Good question! Let's make it 0 days here next Tuesday.

And how will reducing taxes on the rich to their lowest point since Reagan give The People more political power?

That's not to give the people more power, that's to help the economy. But, since you bring it up, taxing gives more resources to the government and, as a result, more control. If the government wasn't corrupt and we weren't in an economic shit hole, then a bump in taxes could be useful.

Trump has said nothing about the winner-take-all, first-past-the-post voting system. He's said nothing about gerrymandering.

These things are not priority at this moment. They can be corrected after the Swamp is drained.

Nothing about unequal access to education.

In what sense? If you're talking about racial inequality then yes he has. What was the last rally of his that you watched? I'm pretty sure he talked about this in his Michigan rallies.

Nothing about drug decriminalization.

Can't say much about this one cause it's not a huge issue to me personally. I know he has spoken on legalization on medical marijuana as well as letting states decide their own policies past medical.

Very little in general about the aspects of the establishment he actually aims to fix (other than trade deals).

Go find his Drain The Swamp speech and first 100 days policies. He wants term limits among several other things.

I'm looking for a candidate who actually understands the ways in which the system is rigged and has a practical agenda for starting the unrigging process.

That would be Trump. I encourage you to dig a bit deeper into what he says regarding establishment politics. I'd help you a bit more but I can't at the moment.

It's likely you have a misunderstanding of many of them thanks in part to the media

The media? You mean his own words? My understanding of his policies comes from his own mouth. If I were to go on his website and have my mind changed, it either means he is completely unable to articulate his goals and plans, or it means he's being very dishonest on one or both fronts.

That's not to give the people more power, that's to help the economy.

Our country should've shaken off the blind, "help the economy" rhetoric after Reagan failed. Trickle-down economics has always been a way to pull the wool over the eyes of working whites. It still is. Strange that the system is rigged against the poor due mostly to the elements of laissez-faire capitalism in our economic system, yet Trump proposes that he'll un-rig it by strengthening those same elements. Preposterous.

If the government wasn't corrupt

So we uncorrupt it. This can happen. Campaign finance reform (the big one), tougher gerrymandering regulations, more protections for voting and penalties for voter suppression, voting structures that don't disenfranchise tens of millions of people (like winner-take-all and first-past-the-post systems do), increasing transparency, etc. These should be the central government reform package for anyone who claims to be anti-establishment.

These things are not priority at this moment.

To clarify, my point is that they really should be. The fact that he hasn't seriously grappled with them is the reason I don't take him seriously as an anti-establishment candidate.

I'll clarify me education point by saying that anyone can say "unequal access to education is a big problem," or "The achievement gap is a big problem." Ultimately, from what I've heard from him on the subject, he doesn't seem to have an acceptable understanding of the problem. He's advocated for school choice for example, which is already a big thing, and which in many ways exacerbates the achievement gap and educational inequality. If he's said anything sensible about Title I reform, please point me to it because I haven't seen it.

(I'll also note that, as I"m not a Hillary supporter, I haven't seen much more than clips of her rallies either. Yet I have a far more thorough understanding of her policy agenda and preferences than I do of Trumps from about the same amount of talk).

I know he has spoken on legalization on medical marijuana as well as letting states decide their own policies past medical.

yeah, I confirmed this by looking it up. My mistake. Wish he'd focus on it more, being that it's such a huge way the establishment maintains power and causes suffering.

I've looked up his so-called 7 point plan. The term limits thing is something I support. The rest of them are either silly or are far more complex issues than he seems to understand.

I'll clarify once more. I'm looking for a candidate who actually understands the ways in which the system is rigged, has a practical agenda for starting the unrigging process, does not play upon the xenophobia/racial resentment/fear-mongering that have been a part of rigging the system in the past and present, has a healthy (but not manic) skepticism of globalization, and can actually convince me that they have what it takes to actually implement what they say they want to.

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The Republican backed Taft-Hartley Act coupled with McCarthyism was a powerful thing that still resonates and has heavy implications today.

Also logistics. America is too big and people are too spread out. Am I supposed to drive to my nearest city, find some parking garage to pay to park in, and then protest in the street?

/5. TPTB have successfully stigmatized dissent. No one wants to be the crazy, right-wing, conspiracy theory nutjob that goes and protests, and if you're unhappy with the system its because you're unsuccesful in life. Whenever a protest comes along, occupy wall street or whatever, I hear at least one person say it's 'just a bunch of losers with nothing better to do'. We can come here and bitch about how corrupt the system is anonymously, but everyone tones it down when their image is on the line.

xxbigpigxx is spot on

If Occupy Wallstreet taught us anything, it's that protesting doesn't accomplish anything but letting off steam.

Point number three. If I miss work I'm fired. I don't even have sick days and have used up the unwritten "allowance" of calling in because I'm sick. My managers life begins at the front doors and ends at the receiving bay. Anything that interrupts the system in between too often is cut away either by screwing your schedule so that you can't afford food and get a different job or by straight up firing you.

5) I don't want to get pepper sprayed, tased, or beanie bagged by a "peace keeping" force.

5.) The education system and media try their very hardest to control information so many people don't know they should be in the streets.

6.) We aren't starving yet.

I loathe being a wage slave :(

4). Most protests/protesters are painted/viewed as something bad. Especially if it involves unions or class struggles.

100 years of social engineering and conditioning to make a population pacified. that and the drugs they put in the water and food.

a slave society the Roman elite could be proud of.

read up on Easter 1916 and the three thousand who faced a domestic army ten times bigger than them. then there was the military of an empire to face.

300 went into the GPO to make a symbolic gesture.

I would also add that anyone who criticizes the government (even in a healthy way), is simply labeled as a conspiracy theorist, which is also painted as something bad or crazy.

Piggybacking:

Because protesting does nothing.

This! And the fact that the "elite" keep the common folks Just happy enough to continue their shitty life. They never push people to the breaking point. Not to mention how much fluoride n bullshit we get pumped with on a daily basis to keep everyone docile...

After ive hallucinated on mushrooms none of those things mattered to me and i feel really willing to take action. Psychedelics take the veil from my eyes and let me see trough the bs.

These are quite pathetic excuses.

Don't care

Too poor to protest (that's a new one?)

Protests are portrayed badly (Very surprising)

The powers that be have us by the shorts hairs

Take my situation for example. I seriously dislike protests, but how do I protest that...? what's a guy to do

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Rule 1. No bigoted slurs. Removed. 1st warning.

HIJACKING TO POST URGENT THEORY: NYPD is allegedly conducting preparations and training programs for civilian conflict. HILLARY AND TRUMP are holding events in NYC the night of the election. Do you think they are hoping to incite violence between the two parties supporters to turn us all against each other?? This all just clicked in my head and had to get feedback.

5) most people who would protest do so by going third party

Number 3 should be number 1, in my opinion.

We realized shitposting on the internet is more powerful than anybody could have possibly imagined

And they place aggressors in crowds so police can perform crowd control.

Now the new way and IMO the only way left to protest the system is to UNPLUG. To just save up and live offgrid. That's even hard though...

You're not divided. you all think the system is fucked. So tear it down and see what happens

0) Dumb.

A lot of us are struggling financially and can't afford to take to the streets without fear of losing our jobs/homes. Peaceful protests never accomplish anything. You'll likely end up losing your job/home and nothing will happen anyway. The media will pay it no attention and the government will just sit back and wait until you get tired of protesting, watching you go back home defeated. This would only work if literally millions of people joined together in protests but sadly it won't happen because a lot of Americans are scared or simply just don't care.

I think scared is the issue - people saw how Occupy was turning into a huge protest with broad-based support. Then they saw how federal / state law enforcement crushed the protest. They saw the arrests, the jail time for protesters, if not jail the court costs. Then came the leaks from Snowden about mass spying. I think lots of people plan to just keep their heads down and try to scrape together what little happiness they can manage from their life.

Occupy it self was a mess and was never set up to succeed. I went to several protest and the min some one found out you had a job they turned on you like you were a wall Street fat cat.

Occupy was from the beginning infiltrated by the establishment. Aaron Minter/Black from the Project Veritas videos was an active participant. Additionally, adbusters, the magazine that organized the protest, is funded indirectly by George Soros.

I was at some of the first small protests in Chicago. And the hostility towards any one employed was unreal. I have no doubt they were infiltrated to disrupt it. But even if if it wasn't it would of not lasted.

I stayed at Occupy Toronto every night and held a job the whole time. No flack from anyone.

Dude you are Canadian

How astute xD

Instead of occupy wall street it should have been riot and loot wall street. Some people camping in tents and playing a guitar was not going to be taken seriously.

Occupy quickly turned into a welfare grab and lost its focus completely. Too bad; there was potential there.

Aaron Minter/Black from the Project Veritas videos was an active participant.

You say this as if you think he was a plant trying to disrupt it

Agree with you on that one. The inflexibility of anybody's ideology is damaging to a greater dialog.

It was a protest without an end game, or at least a realistic end game. It also had no leadership, just drum circles and the occasional opportunist.

Occupy it self was a mess and was never set up to succeed.

Pieces of the Occupy movement have been very successful - here in SF they've stopped hundreds of evictions, nationally one group eliminated 15 million in personal debt, they've raised the overall awareness of the public, and the profile of whistle-blowers like Snowden. Their mere existence is a sea change in social consciousness in America - as recently as the 80's they would have been dismissed as 'hippies'.

and any movement gets infiltrated at the earliest stages

ive seen it with my own eyes, undercovers at trade agreement protests, drug war protests, rainbow gatherings, burning man, anarcho meetups

my brother teaches history i told him if he wanted to teach about the real workd he should foia my fbi profile.

if you learned every word in my dossier youd be a politically educated person

I think what they saw was a bunch of millennials and nothing really happening

Because too many people like you only sit on the side lines and complain.

Nope. Most people think occupy was a joke, including myself. A bunch of angsty homeless and drug users who don't shower deciding to camp on the street for a while with no actual goals.

Don't downvote me for not sharing your point of view. If that's not the majority view of occupy change my mind.

Why do you think it was just homeless drug addicts

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WTF are you talking about "weeks off" lol

I have a job and easily protested.

This is the best answer in my opinion. I have neither the time nor the resources to protest my broken system of government if I expect to continue my relatively comfortable and pleasant life.

I'm not even comfortable really, or pleasant, but if I was to protest I would likely end up jobless and homeless.

Actually yeah this is more accurate. I just don't want to end up homeless mainly.

Same here, I know my boss would prolly fire me if I said I was taking a week off to go protest.

i wonder if the people of the American Revolution said the same thing, "i want to stand up for myself but i dont want to be punished." i bet they had this same problem. it is a sticky situation but eventually you have to decide whether sacrificing your short term enjoyment for a better life for future generations is worth it or not. when your government takes your tax dollars and doesnt use them to help the people of the country they represent, you need to stand up say this isnt right, we dont like this, we wont stand for this. we dont care about the shitty jobs we work all day to pay you for, your cut isnt going where we want it to and it needs to change or we wont pay you.

That's simple enough to say, but when the rubber meets the road it's a completely different story. People's lives in the US are still relatively comfortable and people have jobs, family, friends - obligations basically. A tipping point hasn't been reached yet and in any revolution there has to come a time when revolting is more agreeable/comfortable than daily life.

The risks are enormous with a very small chance of actually making an impact when you really think about it. Look at what's happening in North Dakota - the protesters are fighting an oil pipeline and the gov has turned against them. The protesters are getting attacked by militarized police with armored vehicles, dogs, sound cannons, pepper spray, etc... and that's only over a pipeline, not a complete overhaul of gov. (I'm not arguing for or against this protest).

Very powerful people are pulling the strings and I have no doubt they'll do anything to keep their power and they have unbelievable resources at their fingertips. It's incredibly naive for someone to look at this very complicated situation and say "why can't you sacrifice short term enjoyment for a better life for future generations." It's just not that black and white. We're talking about the US gov, not some tiny country with little influence. As soon as a group of people started to revolt it'd be squashed swiftly and in such a manner as to discourage others from following. Then there'd be a mass PR campaign to paint the revolt as some crazy end-of-worlders at it again type of thing.

Anyways, I'm done ranting now. If you feel so strongly about it, you're welcome to march the streets of Manhattan declaring a revolution and see how far you get.

You're gonna be homeless the way it going...

That's why you don't see more of that happening. We're boxed in so tightly that we cannot afford to be able to DO anything for fear of winding up on the street.

A vote for clinton is a vote for business as usual, not saying trump is better but if we all refused to vote and turnout was in the teens maybe then we could get a candidate that would appeal to the broader publics concerns. Maybe I'm just an idiot though hard to tell what my opinion is supposed to be anymore.

Not voting is defiantly not the solution here.

Voting is also definitely not the solution here.

Its crazy how good jeb bush looks right now

Or Rand Paul.

I didn't agree with some of Rand's personal beliefs, but I really respect him as a government official and truly believe he wants to help people, and actually has the competency to do so.

Bush is just the other side of the "business as usual" coin that Clinton is on. That does not sound appealing.

His answer was to work more. How fucking out of touch could he be.

nice try jeb bush!

forgot which sub you were in did you?

I agree. Why not write in Bernie Sanders? I did. That will speak just as loudly as not voting. And then we'll have someone....

Bernie endorsed Hillary... He has to know she's corrupt as fuck. Sounds like he's not the solution either.

I know, but I think he HAS to.... He would probably be assasinated :(

I'm voting for Trump, but not because I necessarily agree with what he's saying.

I'm voting for him because the next President is going to pick AT LEAST one Supreme Court Justice, possibly more. That alone will determine the direction this country will head for at least the next 20 (maybe 30) years. Getting Hillary in will for sure get two on the bench (Ginsburg would resign to get a young version of her on in her place) possibly 3 if Kennedy or Thomas resign since they're getting old. This would be a huge blow against the 2nd Amendment, as I believe that Hillary would appoint justices with an eye towards reversing Heller and McDonald as per her idea that they "got it wrong".

I'm playing chess on this while everyone else is playing checkers.

You're also going to get people who will try and overturn Obgerfel and Roe. So be careful. I'm gay so I can't vote for that. It's just not ok to me.

I disagree with Obergefell but not for "fuck the gays" reasons.

Here's why: there is no right to marry ANYWHERE in federal law. Legally speaking, it's a contract between two people to merge them into one for various legal purposes and on a religious level, well, that's religion but NOT a right. What SCOTUS did in Obergefell was essentially to say that because you have a "right" to marry straight people, then the right must by extension include gay couples as well. Which is all well and fine, except that such a right does not exist in law anywhere to where they can argue that. If it's not a right that exists for straight couples, then you cannot extend something that doesn't exist to gay couples either. So what SCOTUS did was to essentially "legislate from the bench" and wright this "right" into law, and THAT is something I have a huge problem with because it fucks with the balance of power between the 3 branches.

edit:

As for Roe, I disagree with the ruling on the same principles. A "right to privacy" gets extended to allow a woman to have an abortion (which, technically speaking wasn't even in the original scope of what Roe was about). Honestly it should have been left up to the States to decide, in accordance with the 10th Amendment. But SCOTUS took the due process clause under the 14th and applied it in such a gross manner to this issue. That does NOT mean that I want to see it overturned, but this is another example of legislation from the bench. Congress needs to be the ones to write laws like this because that is their job, it's not up to SCOTUS to wildly apply an unrelated Amendment to a case to create a new right.

You and I differ in an extremely important way. You seem to view us as a collection of states who has a federal government. I vehemently disagree with this interpretation, it worked when we were a tiny country but not anymore. I view us as a single country who has states for local issues. Marriage, abortion, etc are not local issues. And as for legislating from the bench, that argument can stuff it when our Congress has done essentially nothing for years, if Congress won't get shit done, well then the country will move forward anywau, even if you disagree with how broad those decisions were, you admit they were the correct ones. Government has to govern, Congress wont, so the president and courts do instead.

And fuck leaving it to the states, we tried that, Jim crow laws, legal discrimination against minorities, legal to fire for being gay? Not ok. The states can't be trusted to legislate when it comes to protecting their own citizens because those states have turned to effectively mob rule. So the Fed has to come down and knock sense into them. People need to get past the "states rights" idea because it essentially only gets used to trample minority and individual rights.

You and I differ in an extremely important way. You seem to view us as a collection of states who has a federal government. I vehemently disagree with this interpretation, it worked when we were a tiny country but not anymore.

People need to get past the "states rights" idea because it essentially only gets used to trample minority and individual rights.

Study the Constitution, and more importantly, read the Federalist and anti-Federalist Papers if you have a chance. It really shows the mindset of the Founding Fathers, which was to have strong States' rights/government and a weak Federal government meant to tie them together on something that would effect the country as a whole, IE: armies, interstate commerce, etc. They were flat out scared of having happening what is right now: a strong Federal government that, through a very minority rule (9 people and I would even argue 1 since the President appoints the Justices), being able to decide and overwrite what the People of a State decided to pass as law.

And as for legislating from the bench, that argument can stuff it when our Congress has done essentially nothing for years, if Congress won't get shit done, well then the country will move forward anywau, even if you disagree with how broad those decisions were, you admit they were the correct ones. Government has to govern, Congress wont, so the president and courts do instead.

No, it doesn't "stuff it" because Congress isn't doing anything. You do not get to disregard the very system of government set up just because you don't agree with how "efficient" they are being at something (or not). If the country wants to move forward, then you need to get the legislators OUT of Congress and elect new ones that will properly represent you and your interests, because that's how our government works. What you want to do is have rulings done in your favor through executive fiat (another word: autocracy). You're wrong in that government has to govern, that's not the purpose of it in terms of what the FF's set up. They aren't supposed to be ruling over us, they are supposed to be serving us instead of acting like they're our lords and masters.

So if you say that the courts and President have it within their power to act because Congress won't: if a bill can't get through Congress officially saying that marriage is only between a man and a woman, then do you agree that the courts and President should be able to unilaterally act to make that law themselves? You cannot argue that they should be able to do it that way because it serves YOUR interests and then in the same breath turn around and scream bloody murder if they try to do it on a matter that you don't agree with.

Also, I never said the decisions were correct, so please don't put words in my mouth.

I'm not a fundamentalist, constitutionaliat or anything like that. I really don't care what the founding fathers wanted. Government has to evolve, and part of what has happened in our country is that the powers in the executive and judicial branches has expanded as the legislature has shrunk back from working. Admittedly it requires a very liberal (as in wide, not left leaning) interpretation of the constitution, but if you have a problem with it then the legislature needs to fix our laws, which since they haven't is why we are in this place in the first place. A confederation of states idea just doesn't work in the modern world with a global culture and global economy. We are one country and one people and we need to act like it.

No it doesn't require a liberal (same meaning as your use) reading of the Constitution. It flat out states in there the purpose and powers of each branch and it does NOT allow a provision to have the executive and judicial branch assume more and more power just because the legislature doesn't act. Again, if you want change, then you need to follow the procedure that's in the Constitution which is to vote out those that don't represent your interests and vote in those that do.

Just because you don't agree with the legislature not acting the way you want it to does NOT give you the ability to do a run-around on it.

Yepp. Try telling your boss you need a few days off to go protest, see how that goes haham

Although that would give you more time to protest.

And THAT's the problem. The first bill the poorest among us pay is their cable bill. Our lives are extraordinarily cushy by comparable world/historical standards. We've been pacified by designed and are too attached to our "comforts" to risk losing them.

We are playing our role perfectly, exactly as it was designed and intended for us.

Perfect quote for this by John Pilger. When the American way of life was sold to Vietnam to pacify them.

"“My orders”, said the Marine sergeant, “are to sell the American Way of Liberty as stated in the Pacification Handbook......The people of Tuylon finally came out, and stood in line to receive packets of Uncle Ben’s Miracle Rice, Hershey bars, party balloons and several thousand toothbrushes. Three portable, battery-operated, yellow flush lavatories were held back for the arrival of the colonel...Of course, the villagers had no idea what the colonel was talking about. When the Marines clapped, they clapped. When the colonel waved, the children waved. As he departed, the colonel shook the sergeant’s hand and said: “You’ve got plenty of hearts and minds here. Carry on, Sergeant?”"

http://johnpilger.com/articles/power-illusion-and-americas-last-taboo

first bill is car payment, second is phone, third is rent, fourth is electric, fifth is internet, sixth is car insurance

people wont drive to protests because they could lose their car

unrest is only possible when density is above a certain level

unrest is only possible when density is above a certain level

This here is why mass protests will be hard to pull off on a national level.

the civil rights movement, which i think is still obviously going on, succeeding by busing people in.

but whose going to ride on a bus to washington d.c. now? the 'i have a dream speech' is a wonder of the world. but once you have mild success, they shut down those avenues. we've seen occupy and ferguson, and there's a reason police are getting heavy weapons, they are scared to go certain parts of the city already. If the population is armed and hates you, thats when 'police' dont work and you need 'military' and this coincides with when your government has no popular support whatsoever.

That's what I'm getting ready for, it has been a steady slide in that direction I see no reason to expect otherwise. Freedom isn't becoming popular anywhere else in the world, the big places are making a harsh totalitarian turn. Turkey. Singapore. China. Russia. Pakistan. Africa. The Phillipines. There will be no awakening or rennaisance in these places, humanity is being locked down hard most places.

And wouldn't they love being able to trot out the example of the American experiment to reinforce their claim to autocracy? reducing us to burning trash cans and rubble by our own hands?

Many of us are also far away from the people that would join them. Or we are afraid of having things happen like what is going on with NoDAPL right now.

Friendly, legal protests are much different than trespassing and setting up camps on private property....

Friendly, legal protests accomplish absolutely nothing when aimed against the state.

you spelled peasant* wrong

Precisely.

This is just sad... I thought you guys were hammer down, balls to the wall, red white and blue, gun wielding Americans?!?! Get out and make your voice heard!

Uh... i have a television show and a six pack of beer waiting for me at home plus i have two kids to feed. Aint nobody got time for that. But i have a friend who ate some funky mushrooms and he started talkin about love, compassion, and sustainabilty; maybe if more of us ate some of those mushrooms well have a following

Maybe try thinking about the future of your children and less about your TV show and piss poor American beer. Or just ignore it all, with Trump or Hillary in office I'm sure you will be going to war soon enough!

But the new american idol!... can i watch that first?

Exactly. Your life is comfortable and pleasent and will remain so in four years no matter if Hilary or Trump gets elected.

isnt this why the American Revolution was started? "no taxation without representation". you should be pissed that you are working your ass off to keep a relatively comfortable life and to keep from being homeless. your hard working tax dollars arent even going to the right public services that many Americans need today. your tax dollars are being squandered away into wars, bailouts... etc., that benefit corporations and banks but leave working families out to dry when they need to send their kids to college so they can be more educated and get a better job than their parents. or when they get hurt and need help to afford exorbitant medical bills. you are working and the government is taking your taxes and wiping their ass with them. this was the basis for the American Revolution. so you need to ask yourself, what has really changed?

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"It's not a lie if you believe it" - George Costanza/Art Vandelay

Edit: this is about the way both Democratic and Republican parties are spreading their views not about the Fredrick Douglas quote. Get people to believe in what they are selling and all of a sudden it becomes truth and control over these people gives you power.

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Fixed my response. I 100% agree with the Douglas quote.

"revolutionary movements attract the worst in society, but also the best" because normal society rejects both....heidegger i think said that?

Spot on quote brotha

I disagree. I think our lives are too good to take to the streets and protest. We are too rich and too comfortable. Any meaningful protest would destroy the system that allows us to live in relative abundance. It's easy to think we're poor when all we look at are the rich people in our own country, but it becomes very clear that we are actually rich compared to the vast majority of the world. A real revolution won't happen until things are really terrible.

Yeah Ive spent about half of 2014-now unemployed. My life is still better than 99% of people who have ever lived. I'm very politically active and I always vote but I'm never going to violently protest unless my life gets a whole fucking lot worse first.

This is what I was going to say. Yea we may have problems. But most of live very comfortable. A lot of the media over hypes everything. If I didnt have any access to news and I based my opinions purely on my lifestyle and people around me I would assume everything was fantastic.

We need a convenient revolution.

I think this is the right answer. We're too comfortable to have meaningful political protest. Like the top comment said. A lot of us are too busy working to come protest. The real protests will come when we don't have jobs to go to.

Not only that, a lot of people don't seem to realize how spread out the population of the US is. There are millions of Americans who are ready to take to the streets but they are all so scattered that it feels impossible to get more than a few hundred together in any one particular place.

And that's why they won't put in bullet trains and why they keep air fare so high and why Greyhound buses are nothing but moving cesspools ... a great majority of the people that want to protest because their life is shit can't afford to spend days on a bus or train to get to the protest, stay a few days or weeks then come home on a days long journey.

Or because bullet trains might be one of the most expensive infrastructure project to date.

Well you think we can't afford bullet trains? We can afford for 57 percent of our budget go to the military. This country can afford whatever they want. They just do NOT want to improve the infrastructure. Hell they don't even want to repair or maintain it very well.

Our military budget allows other NATO members to spend less on defense and distribute their tax revenue on social programs because they can rely on our capability to defend them. It's a huge pull factor with deciding nations. We can't "afford" to spend less on military at this point because it will show as a sign of weakness.

Yepp

This. They don't care because they've been dumbed down by a school system designed to turn out autonomous factory workers. As were their parents before them.

If you reread 1984, it's pretty fucking creepy how closely Orwell laid shit out in the 40's.

Orwell definitely knew his shit.

Basically, the best option for the US right now would be if it splits into 50 states or if it splits into regions. Each region to warry about whats best for it, instead of a few chosing for the rest of us living spread accross half continet.

As was originally intended.

We are too devided socially and culturally. We need to come together if we want to protest.

True that.

This is true

True it is. It's why they want us poor and scared all the time.

And on the other side, people that are doing well financially, or who are at least comfortable, are mostly complacent enough to let these things happen. Doesn't cost me my job, my lifestyle? Who gives a shit?

That's my ex. My ex makes 6 figures, isn't ever going to risk that job. We can talk about anything except politics. She's 'going to hold her nose and vote for Clinton' and won't hear anything I have to say on the matter. People want to back a winner and Hillary is the Dem nominee and touted as going to win.

Yepp.

The media is paying attention to the pipeline protests in North Dakota

Not enough. Had to dig to find out they had teargas dropped on them from planes and a little girl was hurt and the police had shot horses and private security used attack dogs on the peacful protesters etc etc etc

because it's hard

A lot of us are struggling financially and can't afford to take to the streets without fear of losing our jobs/homes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPKKQnijnsM

Great video, thanks

Peaceful protests never accomplish anything

I would argue that the anti-nuclear movement was quite effective.

Are you talking about protests that happened decades ago or the new ones happening now? Because the ones that happened some time back were before militarized police and NSA spying on our internet posts etc.

That is why the second amendment exists.

2nd amendment doesnt exist for me..

Not to mention in peaceful protests, you will likely be assaulted and arrested is has been shown with the N. Dakota pipeline protests and OWS. Oh, and most previous protests. This country does not like civil unrest, no matter how mild.

Yepp, there's a lot of potential risks that go along with protesting.

Exactly this. Plus, to make a real impact, you'd have to have a demonstration congregated in one area, so the cost of travel is another big hurdle. I think maybe we could get something effective with a 1-2 day event if we got millions, in total (maybe it'd have to be tens of millions), all protesting in their nearest major city. But that's require the media to be very present.

Hijacking to make a point.

You're right protesting is a waste of time and money we can't spare. But there is another way. WE THE PEOPLE have the power should we choose to exercise it.

It's time to demand a constitutional amendment. This amendment would create reasonable, modern voting system that is democratic in nature. No more electoral college. No more duality system. No more, pick one voting style. and NO MORE MONEY IN POLITICS.

I will forgo specific wording or trying to lay it out too specifically at this stage, because we need to find a middle ground that everyone is ok with, but that can't be gamed so easily as the current system.

Mass protesting might work, but not likely, and who can afford the time?

Changing the law is our right. So lets start changing it.

people are too stupid to realize you don't have to leave your house for several days to fight back. they don't get that the time for protesting has come and gone and civil disobedience is required. they'll never figure out that they need to take money from the corrupt to stop the corrupt from buying their governments.

they will fall, because they never chose to stand for themselves.

I don't understand that. Could you explain why you would loose your job because of protesting?

I live in Germany and have been on serveral protests before without any impact on my financial or social wellbeing. Is it that different in the US?

It's not that we "simply just don't care". We care. We don't care enough to risk our lives and livelihood to resort to the violence necessary to make significant change. Things aren't that bad.

"Peaceful protests never accomplish anything"? The marchers at the Edmund Pettis bridge would like a word with you.

and if there were an uprising youd have to drive there and your car would get lit on fire and towed

a car based suburban society is impossible to revolt against because all your own stuff will get trashed and youd have to walk twenty miles and the tv wont tell you what happened much less what is happening

the usa is the most elaborate social control mechanism ever created and 90% of the people are unaware of all but a few pieces of it that affect just them

and the mob is uneducated and psycopaths are roaming free, there would be no evolution of our system after a real collapse, just negan

Yea. We are to caught up in our own lives. We dont have the time or energy. Our kids lives would have to be in danger to motivate people. It wont be till people are willing to die to change this system. We've just wound ourselves up into a super complex system. We need a hard reset but people are too scared. TO ME THE ONLY ANSWER IS A PSYCHEDELIC REVOLUTION. Sadly people believe psychedelics are just a joke not to be taken seriously.

95% of the people have voted for the same two parties every time, and you think they are ready for non-peaceful protest?

Tell that to the French. Jesus, Americans have become complete wimps. Think what your ancestors had to endure to build your country. They must be banging their heads against their coffin lids these days.

After that I feel like maybe things aren't so bad in russia :D

Hillary Clinton has paid for many protestors, it seems to be working well for her as she knocked off her only democratic opponent and has been working on trump for months.

This is very sad. I come from a country where a lot was accomplished by peaceful protest, and we have some protest every year. Every year there are marches for some ideas, like every year there are feminist marches, gay marches, free cannabis marches in many cities for example. Every time our government wants to pass some policy that people don't like there are protests - ACTA? Protests. Too much religion in the government? Protests. Abortion ban? Protests. CETA? Protests. And so on. People here on general have it harder than in the USA I believe, the standard of living is lower, the amount of things you can buy with average salary is lower, yet people find the time and strength to walk out on the streets and say loudly what they think. Many even volunteer in the organization of the marches and protests in their free time. You can do it too!

Are your police militarized? Do they drop tear gas on your protesters and knock them down with water cannons or bust their eardrums with noise cannons or throw concussion grenades at them or pepper spray them for no reason or write numbers on them and throw them in dog cages or slam them to the ground to zip-tie them or shoot them point blank with rubber bullets (rubber bullets can be deadly at point blank)... I could go on. Does your police do those things to your protesters?

They did a lot of that before my parents were my age. People did protest back then, and some of these were maybe the biggest protest this country has ever seen. Thanks to that, now they don't do this to us anymore - previous generations fought for this freedom hard, and they won. If you show your government that this kind of methods work, they will only use them even more. And do you have any legal ways to organize protests or marches? Most of our protest now cannot be interrupted by police, because they are 100% legal.

We do not at present have a way to protest that does not somehow end in being arrested or hurt badly or even killed. Police here are by and large NOT punished for acting badly. For every idea we have on how to protest, the cops come up with a way to squash it. Our main successful form of protest at the moment is online information sharing and the TOR browser that makes it possible to communicate anonymously if done right.

We're waiting for a savior. How long until we realize it's us?

How long shall they kill our prophets..

..while we stand aside and look

ooh

It does pay to keep your head down while preaching against the machine. The anonymity of the internet (especially if you use a Tor browser, etc) enables ideas to flow freely for the most part. I'm not sure having any one person be the figurehead can work anymore. We know they will be immediately targeted. We have to do this all together, on the down low, spreading ideas and information.

Because we're taught a story about a guy who will come to save us so many times that we do not believe anymore in ourselves.

"We are the ones we've been waiting for"

"He said son when, you grow up Will you be, the savior of the broken The beaten and the damned"

[deleted]

It was until the Church got rid of it.

Where are you Anonymous? WE NEED YOU

We did during the DNC convention. And even the times before the convention. Many marched on Washington to get the money and conflicts of interest out. It was epic. Mostly peaceful, mostly not covered by the major stations, but it was crazy.

It was the warning shot across the bow.

The thing with America is - we're huge. When it comes to other countries, they are the size of our states. It's very costly and time consuming, things that a lot of Americans don't have, to March on Washington.

Free Speech and the right to peacefully assemble has to be granted first through an application process which can be denied for whatever the fuck reason. then only in special designated zones. We are loosing our rights.

The United States has a long history of bloody uprising. When we had desegregation, the race riots, people shot by the national guard trying to protest Vietnam and Cambodia. Civil War. We are trying everything we can through official means.

When those means are thoroughly exhausted, then things go to the streets and when they do - they aren't pretty. Our government doesn't give a shit if we vote for them or not. They'll just shuffle one stooge out and drag another one in.

Look at Michigan. Short of armed ocuped standoff, Snyder does whatever the fuck he wants.

Hey let's get a good push for legalized marijuana. Start early in the year and do a good weedroots signature campaign. Wonderful we have more than enough signatures and enough time to file it for a formal ballot proposal! Snyder gets wind of it, directs the Republicans to change the law in the middle of an election year to severly shorten the time frame to collect signatures for a ballot and retroactively void all these guys work.

Let's recall Snyder for Flint! Ok 11 petitions get sent up and they have to be approved. Republicans in charge approve the one written by the Tea Party (the one that will sit on a shelf collecting dust) and not give any traction to it. Oops! Looks like you didn't get the signatures! What a pity!

State overwhelmingly shoots down Right to work (for less) on the ballot. Snyder does it anyways.

Where's the Democrats? Too busy playing the black knight corruption game so much they've basically blown both their feet off and allowed the Republicans to chop off their arms. Our government acts with imperialistic impunity with complete contempt for the public.

So just wait until the inauguration. It's going to get messy.

I really fear it this country is ready to blow up.

Here is what I want our Canadian friends, who have given us so many wonderful comedians though the years, and the rest of the world to do. Mock us Viciously, brutally, cynically, and constantly point out our hypocrisy, the corruption, and be a source of free speech and outrage.

Our problems go far beyond our borders because the people with money and power pulling the strings over here, also extend into Canada and other parts of the world. Follow the money and then mock us. Isolate us if need be, but show us a mirror.

I feel like this country is a lot close to blowing up than anyone realizes.

People are pissed. We wont stand for this shit. Its been revealed time and time again we do not live in a democracy or a republic or any other form of representative government. Our opinions do not matter and the people at the top keep trying to control us more every damn day.

If they want to rule everything, let them rule over ashes.

^This. The DNC protests were massively under/mis-reported.

I forgot what a clusterfuck W.'s Inauguration was.

Here is what I want our Canadian friends, who have given us so many wonderful comedians though the years, and the rest of the world to do. Mock us Viciously, brutally, cynically, and constantly point out our hypocrisy, the corruption, and be a source of free speech and outrage.

At the beginning of the election cycle, our resident Canadian at work (he actually holds dual citizenship now) sent me that "Canada for President" video. It seemed funny at the time. Given this election cycle, I would happily let the Canadian people take a crack at running this place.

HAHAHA why isn't this a thing? It'd be amazing.

If you haven't seen the video, just search youtube for "Canada for President" (I can't the the link right now). My favorite part is "We're going to legalize weed so you can stop worrying about terrorist attacks, and start worrying if your cat is stealing your ideas".

I am so happy that you showed me that Bush inauguration video. I was too young at the time to realize that people really hated bush but I'm old enough now to realize that EVERYBODY really hates Hillary and I'm curious to see what the future brings...

I'm very curious as well.

I'm really pissy about this entire election and so is everyone I know. It's probably the first thing my entire immediate family has agreed on, ever.

Weirdly though, as angry as I am about this whole charade, I can't help but be a little excited about the outcome of this election.

No matter who wins next week, Trump or Clinton, there's going to be some shit going down.

If Trump wins, a lot of people are going to be pissed and blame it on Russia. A lot of people will be scared because the media has portrayed him as the next Hitler. There's going to be a lot of folks feeling like they were robbed, cheated and that the election was tampered with by Russia or the FBI.

If Clinton wins, a lot of people are going to be pissed and blame it on our current government and the elite. They're going to feel cheated. They're going to feel like the election was rigged. People are going to feel like she was going to win regardless and it's only going to further prove to a lot of people that she and our current government are corrupt.

Either way, no matter what, the aftermath is going to be a shitshow and I can't wait to see what happens.

You forgot about the road tax that 80% of the state voted no for, and he passed anyways.

Yeah what a shitshow that was. The public gives Lansing the biggest Fuck You to their shell games of corporate handouts.

It really is worth a case study into how not to set up a ballot measure Proposal 1

https://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_Sales_Tax_Increase_for_Transportation_Amendment,_Proposal_1_(May_2015)

• Proposal 1's defeat was the worst defeat for a Michigan ballot measure since the current constitution was adopted in 1963. The previous record holder was Proposal 1, a 1980 constitutional amendment that 78.8 percent of voters voted against

By and large, the American people don't really care. It's taboo to talk politics with anyone these days, lest there be a disagreement where we have to think critically about the others' positions.

We have our reality TV, American Football, and deep fried High Fructose Corn Syrup to distract us from reality.

It's sad really. Our populace has become so complacent and desperate at the same time. People can't afford to join a political movement, because they'll lose their job/house/family/etc. And those are the things that joining a political movement would fix.

Our subjugation was simple.

All that was needed was to convince the people to never discuss politics or religion.

It did start fights when it was done but not discussing these vital topics, especially politics, made us terminally weak as a population.

I totally agree. I enjoy discussing politics and religion, even when at the bar. It promotes critical thinking and honest discussion. It's important to hear the other side's story and not live in an echo chamber.

And we're too scared to offend anyone. Political correctness has gotten out of hand.

You think we are too scared to offend people. I think we are too quick to offend people, almost always for no good reason. We, as a culture, have completely forgotten what empathy is, and are entirely too quick to denigrate others for looking, thinking, fucking, and/or worshiping differently than we do.

Both are true.

I can't even talk politics with my own wife during this election.

It's touchy but we have to get over some of that.

In your case maybe you'd better not though.

They say marriage is grand but divorce is a hundred grand. :)

Our love is above politics

She wants a woman president no matter what it costs, and I have a clearance and work in the intelligence community. It's a recipe for disaster.

I just want this election to be over so we can go back to hating the government together.

Literally the reason talking about money is taboo. You don't want to talk about how much you make with Steve. God forbid you offend him... or realize he's getting paid 20% more with a skill set comparable to yours

You forgot pay rate, if we stop people from discussing pay rate, they will all thunk they are being paid fairly.

We have to be able to discuss that and any other issue to ever have a chance to get any control of anything.but less seriously, how much do you make? :)

No idea, but my circumstances are different since i am under qualified and work for family, so im under qualified and shouldnt make as much, but i work for family so I get fair raises.

There's no use saying this but I'll do it anyway. Ive had the same dead end job for 29 years making high end durable goods from raw materials, full charge without supervision. I haven't ever had a raise at all and there is no possibility of promotion.

People who are driven to run things and 'be the boss' have no conscience.

You're getting the same pay you got in the 80s? Really?

The longer this goes on the harder it is to escape, so here I sit.

Did Bernays have something to do with that?

I don't know, seems likely, propaganda works.

We have our reality TV, American Football, and deep fried High Fructose Corn Syrup to distract us from reality.

If only people could be smart like me and just post shit on Reddit instead

Talking about it and trying to understand it are the first steps to doing anything bonsai brain.

Great. Let me know when you're sufficiently informed to go out in the streets. Until then, I'll just assume you're pretty much the same as all these other so-called fat slobs watching football and reality TV, except with an unwarranted superiority complex.

I've been out on the streets, it doesn't do any good unless the majority of the public are sympathetic to your cause. The only way to achieve that is to communicate, propagandize and organize. What is the solution you propose? Going out and burning shit? Yeah, that'll work.

Bullshit. All anyone talks about lately is politics, and there aren't many disagreements over it.

Yea that's true but you can't really get too deep into it with too many people. Especially when you bring up stuff that's discussed in here to people that don't even know that rabbit holes exist all around them. You have to pick and choose your spots, otherwise it's pointless. I, like I'm sure many here, have spent years and years learning and enlightening myself to the truth and you can't awaken someone in one conversation. It takes time and acceptance and an open mind.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Most people just talk pop politics. They usually don't have the intelligence or stomach for many topics discussed here.

So true! My sister, my ex, my brother... people closest to me talk about how bad Trump is and how they need to make sure Clinton wins or we're fucked. That is pretty much the extent of their conversations before they settle in to watch TV. I mentioned petrodollars to my ex and she said "I've never heard that word. What does it mean?" and I started to explain and she tuned out. She said "Oh that's ok, I gotta go feed the dogs".

We are shouting into an echo chamber.

Not many disagreements? huh?

I know, right? That statement right there illustrates the point exactly. Head in the sand. Only hear what you want to hear. Jump in with a pithy statement to seem educated then fade into the background grinning and self satisfied that they took part in a political discussion.

I agree! but the caveat is that our seeming agreements aren't strong and don't actually encourage dialogue or prompt problem solving. We agree that "the system doesn't work for us", that "politicians are corrupt", etc. But it's cursory, conversational, and mainly a display of verbal etiquette. It's like saying "nice day" when the weather's shit - "yeah, it's all ugly, but there's nothing anybody can do about it"

So, our so called "agreements" are essentially about our collective decision to do nothing and watch it all burn to the ground.

Hmm, guess you were around when I was talking with my boss about politics and he said that he feels he should have ownership over the people who receive government aid, because he's the one who pays for it?

Or how when I try to have a discussion about politics with friends or family they shut me down immediately saying they don't want to talk about it?

I understand you think, based on your observations, that your statement is true, but you're not having my experiences. How can you make a statement about what I'm seeing one way or the other?

You know why they don't want to talk politics? Because they only know a few party lines. They don't want to discuss politics because they can't. They sit down after work and watch TV or go to the bar or whatever it is they do, distance themselves from the cacophony going on in the background. It's become totally OK to not pay any attention to what is going on in the world/country.

Yeah, that's a pretty good take on it. They're scared to look stupid or to discover they've been had. The best approach is a Socratic method one, to draw them into justifying each answer more carefully.

Your boss kind of has a point. I don't feel as strong as he does, but people who are on govt welfare and don't work, should not be allowed to vote. It's the modern day plantation.

Not being able to vote for being poor? That's how the country used to be run when only white male land holders could vote.

Also, he said that he should be able to dictate the lives of these people. I told him that you can't own people, and he said that he feels that he should be able to own them. I was flabbergasted.

Obviously the dictating part is over the line. Hence the "kinda" which seems to have been lost in my post.

Wow. You are heartless human being. For example, you just included our vets in your comment. If anyone should vote, it's them.

May you, your friends or family never struggle in life or need help from others.

You're putting words in my mouth. You knew damn well I wasn't talking about vets. Grow up

You must be hanging out with like minded people then. If you venture out of your comfort zone circles, you will find mighty clashes over politics. It's everywhere. The last half of your statement is untrue in the broad spectrum.

Have you not read any of THIS FUCKING THREAD?

I'm not sure its a lack of caring - granted some people are happy to "go along to get along". However I think it could be more related to the great mythos of America being a "land of opportunity" that rewards people for "pulling themselves up by their bootstraps" / "the rugged individualist". The country as a whole buys into this idea that if you just work harder, scrip and save, come up with that one great idea you'll make it. And that anybody can make it big / be a success.
This is taught in schools, pushed in mass media, built as a part of advertising -- it is literally part of the American culture. When someone fails at making this "dream" the failure is internalized. They failed because they didn't try hard enough, they didn't have enough education, they were lazy, etc. For people to break of this mindset and realize that actually the game is rigged against most and rigged for the very few and privileged is a painful, scary event. If I were religious, I'd equate it to a massive crisis of faith. There are lots of people who would rather buy into the fantasy of "america dream / progress" rather than have to confront the ugliness / anger / depression of realizing and admitting that we've been sold a bill of good that is lies. There is a huge element of feeling utterly powerless after this realization. TV / fried food are escapes from this feeling of powerless - it provides a momentary shot of dopamine / escape from reality.

Right, they give us just enough that we have something to lose, but not too much lest we get too much freetime on our hands

Management of the citizen's free time by the state is pretty much my totalitarian nightmare threshold. The Nazis did it with holidays and exercise, the Soviets with political education classes and long hours, Orwell's Oceania with cameras telescreens and classes and two minute hates. The West does it with austerity, entertainment and Facebook.

We would be but the ones who really care are full time workers/family/doing everything we can to keep ourselves above water.

This right here. I'm a full time college student who works full time trying to pay for it. Been on my own since 18 needed two knee surgeries and getting set up for a third. I literally don't have time to do anything but try to raise money for medical bills and school. You can't protest if you are spending all your time trying to climb out of debt. :/

The media undermines the public's efforts for social change that doesn't benefit corporate power.

Unfortunately a large group of the population still genuinely believe mainstream sources are credible and factual with the people's best interest in mind. The members of this sub are a tiny percentage of the population so our social outreach is limited. If things continue to progress against Clinton and she starts to get exposed on a greater level then we may start to see some action. I live in a very southern area of the US and I can tell you that I hear regular conversations about militias forming as well as rampant gun sales in preparation for some serious events. The next few months are going to be quite a ride.

Yea the mainstream media controls everyone so if you talk with clear forward thinking ideas. Everyone looks at you like you are some crazy conspiracy nut job. That's just the way it is in America. Everyone looks at you pity's you and turns away. You cannot talk like this in public you just can't people will outcast you and call you unpatriotic. This has happened to me multiple times when discussing how this country is really ran. People by and large in this country think there is absolutely nothing wrong with how it is. Reminds me very much like Germany 1930s.

I live in a very youthful progressive city (Portland) and I wonder what other parts of the country are like. I don't think I even know anyone besides my parents who actually watch the news. It seems like everyone I meet and associate with are people who see past the thin veil of corporatism and corruption. Bernie Sanders did win in Oregon after all. I wish more of the country was like this.

I lived in Portland 5 years (left just over a year ago). My ex still lives there, across from Mt. Tabor. Says she is going to hold her nose and vote for Hillary. Can't talk to her about why it's not a good idea. AND (get this) she has a 8 year old niece she loves so dearly. Can't talk her out of voting for Hillary and she thinks that a vote for Trump or Jill is a vote for WWIII.

We will eat your wall.

Making a poutine wall will not stop us.

Eat you way through and like it.

My grandmother was an illegal Canadian immigrant in a time when no one really noticed that kind of thing. Looks like it is time to return to our roots. I wish I knew more about her but she is long gone.

It's funny because I'm also a Canadian citizen. My dad was born in Hamilton, ON so I've spent countless summers at the cottage. I will be migrating if things escalate too much more.

Canadian wall (most likely made of poutine and maple syrup)

Ha, us Americans would eat through that in a matter of hours.

I'd go live in Canada in a heartbeat but the requirements are too stringent. You have to have like 3 months ' worth of money to live on, a needed skill etc etc, I can't move anywhere really. Except maybe Scotland where I have relatives.

Its not that easy to get Canadian citizenship, if only it were many many people would move to Canada

It is not like Canada does not have its own issues. The real estate markets in Vancouver and Toronto are out of control with foreign billionaires buying up real estate as investment property, you guys still have an out of control telecom monopoly, and while your healthcare system is way better than what we have, you still have a budget shortfall that produces long waits for expensive machinery like MRIs.

Sure, they aren't total and complete subjugation of your political process by megacorporations, but a lot of the problems many Euro-like countries (including Canada, Australia, etc) have is their own people often pay more attention to US politics than their own, and forget their own systems of government still almost ubiquitously have room for improvement.

Of course they suck too. But Europe Canada and Oceania take their marching orders from the US in all sorts of ways. And the problems our governments cause are done to transform our societies into markets to be privatised and sold to (mainly) US based megacorps.

The militia thing has come up a lot here in Texas too, I'm not a supporter of any candidate, with that being said the media has absolute control over what a lot of the older generations see. Sadly, hardly any of them go onto sites such as this to either find their own conclusion or figure out for themselves why things are the way that they are. My thing is even with everything that has been released about both candidates, none of us are taking to the streets, and sadly I think it is because of this reason (media), along with 60 hour work weeks, fear of losing job, work, etc.

Tbh though, I have talked to people who are so sworn to Hillary that she could get on stand and say "Fuck America, I want to join ISIS" and they would still side with her. It's sad.

I'm in Northern Alabama. Hello fellow southerner!

Border of NC and SC!

The only thing that I don't get is do these people planning on forming militias understand they're going up against fucking drones if they want to try anything? How can you expect to rebel against your government when they can wipe you off the earth without even showing their face to you.

We literally can't get out and protest. If you look back at many peaceful protests, they are met with violence. The sit in about the 1% on Wall street. people were forcefully removed. People are being arrested in droves and attacked by private security teams on private property in North Dakota. That infamous pepper spray guy on the college campus where the kids are just sitting there. The people have no advocates. In the US the rich are literally able to buy the end result they want. I will probably get downvoted for conspiracy theory stuff or whatever, but Clinton bought and stole the nomination from Sanders. The person the majority of the public wanted to run as Dem. Her rallies may have 100 people show up. MSM only paints her in a positive light and won't cover things like the ND pipeline or other shit that is actually important. All of those stations are owned by like two families and highly invested in HRC.

What's worse is that a majority now want all new candidates, but we can't have them. The system is so screwed that we can't get new people. We are forced to select from a bullet to the brain or a noose around our necks. When you could select any scientist, engineer, college professor and have a better candidate for President. Hopefully this year will be the start in a real change in government in the US. and Hopefully that change is term limits for congress and much more. Hopefully more avenues for regular joe's/jane's to make their way into politics as well. Not millionaires who are there to get richer and play games for their rich friends.

EDIT: Just realized what sub this was in. Disregard conspiracy statement.

This is what I would have said ha best answer yet

Well you had Bernie for a bit, but even he turned over for the Clinton ass fucking machine.

💰💰💰

Wasn't there an email in the leaks claiming he was either bought and/or threatened into stepping down?

Nothing concrete yet, likely nothing will show up either on this specific issue. Everything we get through official channels is ridiculously censored. Wikileaks and co. are proving to be the only reliable sources.

Sanders met with Clinton several times in the final bits of his campaign, I would not be surprised if the terms were exclusively verbal.

This election is a travesty.

My wife is pro-HRC and we argue on this all the time. Her best defense is, "I am sure someone is sitting there making all of these emails. They probably aren't even written by her or her staff." Which, I do not think is the case, but I really don't have a legitimate comeback for that to prove that they are.

But when his tone change overnight, my very first sentence was, "She threatened his family." I still believe that is the most plausible case.

Every time the emails are brought up, Clinton &co. do not deny the authenticity of the emails, rather they assert that they were obtained by Russian hackers.

In a debate, Clinton was asked about what she said in the then leaked speech transcripts. She immediately asked Trump to agree with her that it was hacked by the Russians.

If these were fake, then why the heck would she not say so? It does not matter whether they were hacked domestically or foreign when the question at hand is authenticity.

Wikileaks has never in its entire decade-long history published a false document. Not once.

Great. Thank you. I believed them to be authentic, but as a layman and my wife even more naive, I just wasn't sure how to really express that they were authentic in a way that she would understand. Not that she is ignorant, but if you aren't into keeping up on this stuff, it does seem rather fantastical. Stuff movies are made of. Add a bit more dramatics and cinematography and it seriously could be a movie.

There isn't a day that goes by anymore that I don't hear a parrot. If I speak up, the parrots drown me out. Even on everyday life. Talk about anything in a group of people and you always have some know it all needing to correct you with something they heard. Something that they claim is fact but something they just got off of TV and accepted it blindly.

Winston knew the man by sight, though he knew no more about him than that he held some important post in the Fiction Department. He was a man of about thirty, with a muscular throat and a large, mobile mouth. His head was thrown back a little, and because of the angle at which he was sitting, his spectacles caught the light and presented to Winston two blank discs instead of eyes.

What was slightly horrible, was that from the stream of sound that poured out of his mouth it was almost impossible to distinguish a single word. Just once Winston caught a phrase -'complete and final elimination of Goldsteinism'- jerked out very rapidly and, as it seemed, all in one piece, like a line of type cast solid. For the rest it was just a noise, a quack-quack-quacking. And yet, though you could not actually hear what the man was saying, you could not be in any doubt about its general nature.

He might be denouncing Goldstein and demanding sterner measures against thought-criminals and saboteurs, he might be fulminating against the atrocities of the Eurasian army, he might be praising Big Brother or the heroes on the Malabar front -- it made no difference. Whatever it was, you could be certain that every word of it was pure orthodoxy, pure Ingsoc.

As he watched the eyeless face with the jaw moving rapidly up and down, Winston had a curious feeling that this was not a real human being but some kind of dummy.

It was not the man's brain that was speaking, it was his larynx. The stuff that was coming out of him consisted of words, but it was not speech in the true sense: it was a noise uttered in unconsciousness, like the quacking of a duck.

Yeah lately I find myself arguing with John Oliver a lot.

That's how it should be; argue with your media, even if you generally agree with it.

Well, I more meant my friend repeating things I know they got from watching John Oliver. And I do generally agree with him. But he also oversimplifies things, and I know when I'm hearing one of those too simple arguments.

he also oversimplifies things

Well, he is a comedy show. I appreciate when he brings social ills to light. It's good to start a dialog about the opioid epidemic and the school segregation in our country, to take a few of his more recent stories. Whether you agree with him or not, they need to be discussed instead of swept under the rug.

Right, that's when he's on point.

The problem is for example when he talked about Hillary's scandals compared to Trumps. He brings up a couple of easily debunkable examples of overblown scandals related to her and then ignores any with real meat on them. So in that instance he's sweeping them under the rug instead of discussing them.

He's obviously been using his platform to help Hillary this election, and with Trump running, it's hard for me to blame him, but it's pretty blatant. He also had a very one sided hit piece on Jill Stein and Gary Johnson recently.

He also had a very one sided hit piece on Jill Stein and Gary Johnson recently.

In this regard, at least, I think he was starting with the presupposition that you, the viewer, liked Jill Stein and/or Gary Johnson and were genuinely considering voting for them based on the policies of theirs you liked and agreed with. So, with that assumption, he doesn't need to tell you their merits, because you already know them. Instead, he focused on their flaws to point out no candidate is perfect (and let's not forget, older folks who support Hillary are afraid the youth won't turn out for her, and she needs the youth of the country to win). Now, that could just be my cognitive dissonance justifying to myself why I waste half an hour each week to watch whatever snark Oliver has in store for the week, so take it as you will.

I think you have point. But I would also wager that a large chunk of his audience doesn't know the positions of the third party candidates. If that was their introduction they look like lunatics based on the most outrageous clips he could find.

He is clearly batting for Clinton, which like I said I understand, but I didn't feel comfortable watching him bash those two with so little context.

Like "Trump will take this country back to the wild west" or "Trump will plunge us into nuclear war" etc etc. But you say those things about Hilldawg and watch the parrots flock together and peck you down. (I'm not voting for either btw)

Hillary is a calculated loss (for me anyways). I'd rather take the status quo than what appears to be a fascist. Less ground to cover to fix the problems.

You aren't worried about her rattling sabers with Russia? Opening borders? Endless war in the Middle East? Putting the MIC first before the citizens? ETC ETC?

Am I concerned about those things? Of course. But, she's not much different than the Obama administration (which I am also not a huge fan of in many regards). But, she'll putting us in a hole that'll be a lot easier for us to dig ourselves out of. Also, I find that I agree with her on a few things. I voted for my candidate in the primaries. He lost. I gotta play the hand I'm given. Anything to beat the overtly fascist, who is echoing too eerily the siren's call of early 20th century Europe.

Alright, that's your right to vote how you want.

The Internet has convinced everyone that they can be an expert on a subject after 20 minutes using Google.

I'm writing this as a British guy who believes that the American people are the only ones who can collectively shift us away from the inevitable war/man induced natural event that eventually ends us all. Barring the other big 2, in the event of any major internal revolution, no other nation is influential enough on a geopolitical scale to have any meaningful influence - China and Russia's elite make no attempt to even entertain democracy and dissent is quickly quelled. But Americans are different. More patriotic, with a history of rebellion against authority turned dictator. I'm 28 and figured out around 15ish that the institutions we depends on DO not have our interest at heart. From the Banking system, to media all the way to elected officials - all corrupt, self serving parasites, leeching from the populace whilst selling dreams of change...

But now both sides are pissed. Dems and Reps. As a result of Wikileaks and other whistle blowers, large swathes of formerly ignorant people are realising what we knew all along. And what was once called 'conspiracy' is now accepted as fact. On such actions, at such times, are real revolutions begat.

[deleted]

My wife's from New York... I guess I feel a certain kinship with my brethren across the pond.

[deleted]

But then where are my tariffs? What about my swiss non-taxed bank account? What about my paradise home in a country poor people can't afford to visit? WHY WONT YOU THINK OF THE CHILDREN?

For us to rebel, we're going to have to have no other option. They're going to have to remove every last right, freedom and luxury, and even then, I'm not so sure. It's being done so slowly and little by little, that we might not even notice until it's all gone. They take away things with social movements and then it becomes common place, then law. SJW's are a prime example. They want their own pronouns, so they force it. Now it's "mandatory on campus."

If enough people make noise, it just becomes the rules. That's not how it's supposed to go. Democracy is flawed. This nation is fucked. Good riddance. I'd personally like to see it go back to the wild west, but I know that won't happen.

Part of the problem is that no one has any drive. Wake up, go to work/school, play nice with others, sleep, repeat. No one thinks about things, makes things, fights for anything. Someone might watch Mythbusters on tv but they'll never try to build a rocket themselves, let alone organize a sociopolitical revolution.

You have to understand how bad we are brainwashed here in the US, and that most people don't even realize it. It's not their fault. We are indoctrinated from the time we begin school to stand and pledge allegiance to the greatest country that ever existed. We are taught all through school that we have the most freedom of any country on earth. Our education model is that of pre-WWI Germany's state run thought control, which was brought here by the Nazis in Operation Paperclip; true history is not instructed. Our "news" sources only run stories of distraction, division, and misdirection while we are force-fed meaningless celebrity gossip; all thanks to Operation Mockingbird, CoIntelPro, etc. We are continually pitted against one another over which party is the most patriotic. Anyone who disagrees or thinks critically against an official government report is labeled a "conspiracy theorist" and ridiculed in accordance with CIA Document #1035-960.

Our educational system purposely discourages critical thinking of any subject including science. It is geared towards memorizing some carefully selected bundle of pseudo facts so you can pass a common core test and nothing else. I think George Carlin said something along the lines of how they only want you smart enough to do whatever job they need you for, soon there will be no jobs so I don't know where we go from there.

George Carlin here https://youtu.be/4jQT7_rVxAE

Correct. This is documented in a recent youtube video How Big Oil Took Over the World. It is also explained in detail in The Leipzig Connection, and Exposing the Global Road to Ruin Through Education.

Oooh thanks I will be watching those for sure soon as I finish reading this thread.

RemindMe! 20hours

Gotta check this out!

I will be messaging you on 2016-11-02 18:09:26 UTC to remind you of this link.

CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

^{Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.}

Besides critical thinking - consider that the people use forums like reddit are a tech minority. Most people's discourse happens on whatever is simplest for them -- facebook is already on their smartphone. Try telling anybody that facebook was funded by In-Q-Tel and that its an attempt to normalize the sharing of all your personal data.

I've recently done a rewatching of Carlin's work. The man became less comedian and more cynic as his career progressed.

The problem is, the audience kept laughing.

I was having similar thoughts re watching that clip I still love it but alot of it is not actually funny. Patrice Williams was pretty good at keeping his act funny while being a critical thinker.

Oh, I hope it didn't come across as critical of George, he's a real role model to me. While his stuff was less "ha ha" funny, it was still impactful and meaningful, I think it's mainly the audiences fault for seeing it as mainly humour.

It's more sad than funny, yet still wildly entertaining.

Carlin was an absolute godssend for opening my (and later my younger bro's) eyes towards the world. And doing it in such a way that he grabbed and held your attention. I miss him.

If you like Carlin, listen to some of the things that Bill Hicks was saying at the same time. Another comedic prophet ahead of his time.

As a Canuck, watching American kids recite the "Pledge" is the craziest fucking thing ever. It is straight out of Germany and the Hitlerjugend.

Your media has gotten so bad I avoid any TV series based on the military and any movie dealing with any military conflict post 1945. I assume any "news" program out of the US is propaganda. I feel the same way about your newspapers.

I don't know how you tolerate it.

We have in our town a huge stadium named after Von Braun. We have a huge arsenal that employs a huge chunk of the town. You can't say anything anti-military or anti-government here, not out loud in public. So many people make their living off war in direct or indirect ways, the town will always spin war as a good thing we do for the US to keep it safe. And nearly everyone will believe it because they have a nice house/car/fam with health insurance and lush green lawns.

Justin Trudeau is just as bad. Look at the speeches he gives to the Clinton Foundation. Look in the leaks.

I mean... Can you name a nation who elected a leader we should be emulating lately?

I'm having an Aleppo moment.

Iceland.

We'll see how the new government does. I've liked what I've seen from their people in attempting to cleaning up their government. Their smaller scale obviously helps a lot.

It would be a first step to fix your broken election system. You live in a red state but are a democrat? Too bad your vote isn't worth anything.

We vote for far more than just the President this election: there are Congresspeople, local and state politicians, local and state propositions, etc.

You can't say the vote in your situation has no worth.

Many countries don't have people vote to elect their head of state either.

Alright, let me clarify. Your vote for the president has no worth in that case.

The difference between, let's say the German system and the American one is that every vote counts towards the party. If you chose to vote blue in a red state, your vote is dismissed. It doesn't count into the total. In the German system it counts no matter who wins.

The difference is in the American system you actually get to vote, albeit indirectly, for head of government. The German chancellor is elected by the Bundestag. You're not really comparing like for like here.

Not every state has winner take all elector votes, some are proportional. In this case a red vote in a blue state can matter.

Technically you are not voting for the president. You are voting electors who can do whatever they want.

Which is why i said:

in the American system you actually get to vote, albeit indirectly, for head of government

Each state has different laws for electors, many are bound by the results of the state popular vote.

Are you just not going to acknowledge that your example of Germany here was flawed?

Where is the difference? In Germany, it's clear who gets to be chancellor for each party as it's decided before the vote.

The difference is you tie the appointment of head of government to other elections. You vote for parliament members who then pick head of government. In the US you have separate votes for both representatives and the executive.

I was unaware of this. Do you have a link to some of that, please?

^

His ass

where? i searched google and the wikileaks subreddit and found nothing

[deleted]

What if you got the police to join the protest with you.... They're getting fucked just like the rest of you.

Police here are indoctrinated as fuck. They are nothing like us when they wear the the blue, and nobody knows that better then them. Imagine how you would feel if everyone in front of you slowed down and drove the speed limit.. all damn day. Imagine people behaving like that in everything they do all around you, and the only people who treated you like a real person were other cops. As long as our laws are this oppressive and our prison system keeps making people rich, cops will be our enemy. I don't want them anywhere near our protests.

Our police forces are becoming a magnet for sadistic racist bigots. A person sees police on the news wearing swat gear and/or military gear and driving military vehicles and that makes them want to join up. Our police forces are attracting the kind of people who desire power over others. They believe they are in the right. The protesters are hippie scum or ghetto scum or whatever their narrative is at the moment. They get off on it, trust me. They suit up and go in with a great sense of might vs. right. Police joining forces with the protesters... It might have happened in a long past America, but now, they are getting paid to throw concussion grenades and shoot people with rubber bullets (and sometimes real bullets). They are on top of the world doing this shit. Ain't gonna fuck up a good thing by joining the scum.

Bullshit. It has always been like that, to an extent. Still, the vast majority are people like you and me.

Protesting is against the law?

Protesting is not against the law, however the police / courts use any law on the books as a cudgel to paper one up in court costs / lawyer fees fighting to get the charges dismissed. You can be arrested for "failure to comply with a police officer" even though it would get thrown out / plead out in court. If you're being handcuffed and you lose your balance and bump against an officer, you've now "assaulted an officer" - if there is no video evidence, good luck having your word go against a cop. If you fight the charges and you lose, you risk a conviction which can cost you the right to vote, rent an apartment, keep a job, etc. If you win, you're still out law fees, court costs, lost time at work, behind on your bills, etc.

Holy crap this sucks! Ugh...

They can easily make it illegal using agent provocateurs.

That's interesting - thank you.

Np. :)

The government has made it very risky to protest. I forget the exact details but there is some shady thing where if there is a CIA agent in the area the protest becomes illegal and has to be broken up. So they send a CIA agent to a protest and it's over. Something like that. Maybe someone else can tell the details better.

Our police have become militarized by and large. This attracts a type of person who wanted to be in the military but couldn't or didn't. They salivate over putting on the military stuff and driving military vehicles and holding automatic rifles etc etc etc. Our government is not cracking down on vicious racist bigoted sadistic police officers. They are allowing these things to happen on a large scale, to keep the people terrified of them. I used to protest a LOT and yeah I got arrested but wasn't treated like a dog. Now, you have no idea what they are going to do to you, and if you will even survive a protest even if it's peaceful. Our government sends out 'agent provocateurs to start the violence and that gives the police a reason to retaliate.

Protesting is a very very risky business these days.

Thanks for your input.

Time and time again proves no laws need to be broken for the opportunity to receive their hospitality.

A few things actually are stopping this;

• Divide and Conquer techniques used on the populace (exaggerated racism, (if this then that) "If you don't support Hi11ary^{leet spreak to prevent bot notification} , then you support Trump, vice versa")

• Disinformation/propaganda: The media here are legally allowed to feed us propaganda even if it has no base in reality. (And do so regularly)

• Manipulation of information sources(adding to the above): "Normal" people are rarely exposed to "conspiracy theories"(or as of late, conspiracy fact) because it is not in the media's (read: Hi11ary's) interest.

• Laws enacted "for the children" or "to stop the terrorists": There are a few terrorist attacks that are quite questionable(9/11 for example). Laws passed after these events almost always infringe on our privacy rights. The "for the children" laws usually involve drugs (read: Natural and/or "illegal" drugs), exaggeration, fake pedo's, etc. Recent events that used this particular method are the recent Kratom issue, the "San Bernardino terrorist's iphone", the constant barrage of gun regulation laws attempting to be passed, and finally the keylogger on windows 10(which I already suspected there would be simply by how hard M$ was pushing the platform, and I bet they were ordered to by a 3 letter organization).

• The shaming, mocking, and ridicule of "conspiracy theorists": Since JFK, the term "Conspiracy theorist" was being actively pushed to have negative connotations with "tin foil hats", "aliens anally probed me", "flat earth/concave earth", "Aliens from venus/mars", and it's sad to say; "Jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams"(It doesn't but I'm sure you all know that). We associate "Conspiracy" with crazy people, and so whenever we hear about these "conspiracies" we(general populace) turn off our brains and it goes in one ear and out the other. Which is why if you try to reason with a Hi11ary supporter they just go "Ok" and act like nothing happened.(Or they get triggered)

• The final nail in the coffin: We can't afford it. We all know the first person to start a movement usually ends up dead/homeless/ridiculed. Martin Luther King Jr is a good example. Another one is Nelson Mandela, and a very recent one is Assange. Due to the fact that not enough people are informed about our issues due to information manipulation, we think there are not enough people to start a movement, so we think attempting to start a movement would be suicide without cause.

TL;DR It comes down to the fact that most of the normal populace don't hear about these conspiracy theories, and when they do (Via MSM) they are portrayed as Crazies, so they discount any conspiracy as completely nuts. It's mostly due to ignorance via manipulation of information.

It's fucking depressing how right you are.

We are protesting. Every evening you can see the flood of people take to social media and cry foul from their sofas and recliners!

Us Americans are an odd bunch. Quick to be opinionated, ready to criticize and condemn but slow to take action. To motivate a group to take real action you have to slap them in the face by removing something they care about. So as long as the internet works the battle will be raged from the sofa.

Even then we would be facing a hydra. The media, the super-rich, the police, the 500 different 3 letter organisations, the politicians, the opinionated/satiated Average Joe, martial law/suspension of habeus corpus, so on and so forth, not to mention all the different shades and variations those groups all come in.

Most of us who avoid going to protests have seen the results.
1. It gets ignored. (media blackout)
2. It gets insulted. (media goes 120% anti-protest, with pundits spouting lies and misinformation for the following 2+ weeks)
3. It gets infiltrated by members of the opposition and those infiltrators push the crowd over the tipping point into violence. Some of them even start violence on their own. (throwing rocks and bottles at cops, or even shooting into the air)

The Ferguson protesters (not the rioters) caught plainclothes cops on video and kicked them out. Not every crowd was lucky.
The 99% protesters had multiple plainclothes cops showing up, breaking laws, and causing violence.
Once the protest has "turned violent", the cops are given the authority to go full Rambo and do what they enjoy. This story happens almost like a playbook, every time there is a protest that the authorities dislike and want squashed.
4. Don't forget the worst part of going to a protest. Cops are now using license plate scanners to acquire all the data on people who parked their cars at a meeting site for a protest. Your information is now "marked" for the rest of your life as being a malcontent or worse. They get caught doing this at Gun shows too.

Gotta work all day just to pay the tax on living down here, no time for protest, too busy being a slave to life

Nobody can protest. Not since 1971.

You can still protest you just have to be about 5 miles away from whatever it is you are protesting and stay in the fenced in designated "free speech zone"

Also, please fill out this application, which can be rejected without cause.

[deleted]

Which was repealed in 1920.

Did you miss BLM all year long? They're the ones out in the street and everyone just tells them to stop being rude.

Because our cops will shoot us

...and face no consequences other than 'administrative leave', which us mere mortals would call 'vacation'.

Americans are literally sheep. The high occultist call them "the dead" or "the unbegun". People have no aspiration to become self fulfilled or learn as much as possible. People just want their televison, entertainment, sex, and money. Its been designed like this on purpose. The rulers have made it impossible for people to wake up. Anyone who speaks like this is automatically labeled as a crazy. Anyone who suggest changing things is ridiculed, just check the replies i get. I can see why people would rather shut up and walk around like a sheep. It would take some disastrous event to even plant the idea of taking action. It really brings me down to the point of tears. Ive been posting info for free documentaries about this on those redbox stations, they just get taken down. Couple years ago i used to post positive signs around my neighborhood, theyd get vandalized/taken down. I try to talk to people, they dont believe /zone out/call me crazy. It really feels inevitable that humanity will end up in a totalitarian dictatorship with no real sense of what being a free human was. I keep saying it seems the only thing that has to potential to save us is psychedelics, for this too i will get ridiculed. Thanks for posting this and making it to the front page. It seems anytime i try to bring up a subject like this it feels like there some sort of censorship going on or just gets buried. Keep up the good work and spread this podcast that very clearly talks about this, its called "What on Earth is Happening" by Mark Passio.

I love you.

Jesus, I hate the level of arrogance in the ops post. The level of projection is incredible. Firstly the world isn't looking on in horror. It might appear that way if your world view is shaped by a media who's only interest is controversy for the sake of profit. Critical thinking of the most basic level would allow you to see that 7 billion souls of this planet are 99.9999% focused on getting through their day, and couldn't give a fuck about this election.

Secondly, there isn't a political system on the planet that isn't horrendously broken right now. Do you think I give a fuck about the US election, living in Ireland, being fucked over by a never ending parade of useless ex geography teachers?!

Get of your high horse, and stop taking your world view from whatever media pipe you're sucking on. The vast majority of this world would give their right arms for the first world problems of having either Clinton or trump, as opposed to genocidal tyrants for life who can only be removed by the military.

So we should just say "Oh, we have it better than those guys, we don't need to hold our politicians' feet to the fire, all's well" ? You think we Americans should not try to make things better for our children's futures? Just because other countries are worse doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for a better government. We're supposed to be a shining example, not a cesspool. We are also probably the only country that CAN break the chain if we got together and did something.

Not sure why you are being negative about people wanting change in their so called leadership. To hear you tell it, we should just sit back and watch tv and not even TRY to better our country.

Like our system is any better. Canada.

Who's the Canadian Alex Jones I can start watching? I want to fit in

What are you talking about?

Yea, they got us jacked up on Fluoride, Vaccines, GMOs, Chemtrails, Netflix, Pokemon, NFL, NBA, MLB................Wait, what was your question ?

And weed. edit: And booze.

And weed? Are you saying weed is a bad thing? I'd use booze as a better example. Most of the people I know that smoke/use weed are extremely intelligent and well informed. There's a reason they don't want to make it legal. It frees the mind in many ways. It soothes and helps a person navigate this world. "They" want us drinking booze because the alcohol industry, because big pharma doesn't want to lose profits on man made drugs that keep people in line. If people were allowed to freely smoke weed it would change this country for the better so rapidly it would make your head spin.

They prefer people to sit in bars and drink to forget. Keeps people docile.

Booze is a better example, agreed. Weed is high (ha!) in the public consciousness, maybe why I picked it.

I actually think some weed use is a good thing, especially among those who are stuck in the slave mindset. But the wake-n-bakers are not doing the ascension process any favors; keeps us pacified and impotent.

Leaving out the NHL again.

Don't forget the Walking Dead!

I have bills to pay, gotta get groceries tonight after work, gotta find time to get sleep so I don't get sick and miss work, and I am in a competitive field so I have to find time to practice so I don't get replaced. Now you want me to try and fix a system that's been flawed since before I was born by standing in a square with some hipsters and shouting at a building?! Checks and Balances are built in, and whoever gets elected my life will be about the same level of tolerable shittiness on the 1st of January as it is today.

TL;DR: Congress will balance it out and life sucks anyway

with some hipsters

That's your problem. Like you're better than them. You're not. You're just too scared to do something about it and risk losing your standard of living.

What are hipsters to you? I feel like the hipster lifestyle that I imagine would be an improvement in my quality of life

It is indeed an incredibly frustrating time for those of us that are aware... however, still far too many that are blissfully ignorant and/or are still eating up every little thing spoon-fed to them by mass media.

Even many of the people who try to stay involved end up getting burned out. The mass media does a great job of overwhelming the average person to a point of apathy and acceptance.

We did that already, it was called occupy wallstreet. And guess what? People started to realize different status levels within the 99% that started to segregate the people who were there to stand for something. It was a joke, and it failed miserably.

Personally I have a plan but it doesn't involve saving the country. I don't know how that could be done with America as divided as it is. I will look out for me and mine. As for the rest of the country, unless we can unite we are fucked.

Obama will go down in history as the Great Divider. Not since the civil rights movement have racial tensions been this bad. Never has the wealth gap been so pronounced. The states lose more rights every year. We are headed for a calamity of nefarious design. Guess who will be there to make it all better? Just give up your guns, your rights, your freedoms and good old Uncle Sam will bring peace.

My advice, prepare for crisis scenarios.

You wanna blame the division on Obama? Pretty sure it rests with the media, the echo chamber forums and social media memes we use to caricature each other. And I hear 'the liberals' demonized way more than 'the conservatives' though there's plenty on both sides from voters and politicians.

I don't mean that Obama is completely responsible, but these divisions happened on his watch and I think as events unfold his legacy will reflect this.

A fairer point. I don't agree that our divisions will be tied to his presidential legacy though. I think our history books will ascertain the broader context beyond a single man in the Oval Office. Especially since these divisions preceded him and will continue into the foreseeable future, probably with increasing force.

Another Canadian here. I really do feel for all of you, and I know that the system has made it impractical to stand up against it. But I don't understand the passionate hatred flowing from both sides against and for two morally vacant and criminal individuals that want to lead your country. Why can't more people see that they're both elitist liars and direct their passion into a productive avenue of change? Start a movement to resign from the process. Boycott the vote on a massive scale to show your discontent, or something to that affect. Leaving your homes and your jobs is not an option, but work together to innovate a different solution instead of spreading hate and dividing yourselves further. I don't know. It's just so depressing.

As a fellow Canadian, I concur. We should be doing more comparative political analysis between the USA and what's happening in South Korea right now. When they found out their leaders were under the spell of a secret group, they demanded resignations and took to the streets, whereas Americans seem to retreat into Netflix binge watching. The only real protest Americans can muster is when someone insults old ladies in yoga pants. https://www.google.ca/amp/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.3819783?client=safari

https://elephrame.com/textbook/BLM

Honestly, we are scared, really scared. We are in debt and have almost no means to get our beaten down asses out of it. Most are brainwashed drones that have no idea of how corrupt the US government, its systems & subsystems and the politicians holding its reins are. Some are waking up to the fact that both parties are two wings of the same bird going to the same destination but most do not and will violently protect the same lies that are imprisoning them.

Peaceful protests no longer garner public attention, but public disdain.

Cointelpro ops during OWS have convinced the majority of the American populace that anyone complaining is actually the source of the problem.

It was a masterfully executed plan devised and implemented by the corporate elite to protect their privileged position.

A much better smear campaign than what was created to fight the 60s-70s counterculture movement. They have learned much in the intervening time.

I wonder what will happen now that peaceful protests no longer work?

I think we all know what happens when peaceful protest no longer works.

Possibly some of our government and corporate elite are unaware...

I feel it won't be long before they can no longer claim ignorance...

The problem is no one wants to be thought of as a Branch Dildonian, so I think that modern media and disdain instilled by propaganda will make it a bit harder to get momentum going.

Which is exactly the point of media circuses like that...

Once automated shipping puts 3 million truckers out of a job, and their children start going to bed hungry, then we might see some results.

The thing is: I don't want bloody revolution to happen in my lifetime, we all got to see the Arab Spring and I fear for my loved ones, though I can see a point in the future where things are so shittastic that my conceptions could change...

I'm not angry, I'm just depressed and ashamed. Not really a take to the streets mood, more of a drink in my basement listening to sad music while I contemplate my life choices and what I've done with my life and where am I going, am I a good person....uhh

Canada is in no better shape my bro. (I am Canadian)

The global misinformation campaigns effect our country the very same way. It also very clear by this post that you are quite ignorant in your own right (no offense).

I recommend taking this new understanding to broaden your own perspective, gain some new education, and being marching in our own streets first.

Everything from the way Canada does healthcare, to automotive, to agriculture is all severely corrupted by corporate interests and career politicians. Justin Trudeau is currently compromising our ecosystem at record rates.

Or how about you start learning about something small. Something social and fundamental to the way we interact and unite as a people. The university of Toronto and Ottawa are currently brainwashing centers for a new form of cultural dissonance.

Feminism: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD65wnDGuTg

Thank you. OP is acting like Canada doesn't stink too.

While your point is a valid one, it's not really what you'd call a conspiracy. More like apathy. Americans like to talk a big game but when it comes to actual action they'd rather sit on their ass and watch tv.

Well at least this election showed me my shitty country (Argentina) is not the only place where things suck. Our last presidential election was pretty much the same show you are having right now. The result? Our current president is involved the Panama Papers Scandal, 90% of the media covers his missdeeds, and our economy is more fucked up than last year. Oh, but many ppl still believe this guy was the right choice....

Divide and conquer has worked well with a strong dose of learned helplessness. Unfortunately, that just means it will fester until it explodes in uncontrolled violence. I am old, this saddens me greatly and I worry for the future of my kids.

I wouldn't worry. Unless you have them right now, they won't be seeing it. I have a feeling it's going to be coming very, very soon.

my kids are 24-30, they definitely will be seeing whatever comes.

Because most of us have to keep a job to pay for this F'n Obamacare..

What, and get shot by our shitty cops?

I would suggest that from the point of view of the establishment they're working exactly as intended.

Haha! Valid.

We're scared to lose our jobs with health insurance because when the police beat us, we will go bankrupt.

OP acts as if Canadians would protest but Trudeau is effectively just as placed and useless. Only difference? Canadians are too stupid to realize it and think they actually made a half decent choice.

downvote all you want not one counterpoint will be rendered successfully.

It hasn't gotten bad enough, yet. Life here is so comfortable that most people are still afraid to rock the boat. As long as the immediate consequences of upsetting the system outweigh the consequences of having a sociopath for a President, most will keep their heads down and try to ride out the storm. But, one day, when the wi-fi stops working, you're gonna see some serious shit.

Simple answer? We are too distracted and we hate each other too much to stand together.

Some of us are scared of the police force who's been shooting everything. The north Dakota pipeline is a peaceful protest but they have military vehicles and weapons waiting for the order to open fire.

Because at this point our system is so deeply in bed with the defense industry, that we need an armed rebellion, not another protest march. And an armed rebellion has zero chance of success. Peasants with rifles have no chance against a drone fleet. We're fucked.

Right ! Look at DAPL... there's a fucking TANK out there. They have tanks, mraps, sound cannons, water cannons, rubber bullets, bean bag projectiles, tear gas, pepper spray, concussion grenades, flash bangs, they can disrupt cell phone reception, send drones in to get pictures of the protesters, send in agent provocateurs, plant evidence, beat someone with their batons... you're right, no chance.

If armed protesters showed up at a gathering the police would very likely call in the National Guard, proclaim martial law, and boom! We are then so firmly under their thumb we can't move.

Incredibly naive and ignorant post that doesn't deserve upvotes. Users here have laid out multiple good reasons why protesting doesn't work or change anything for us, and why it's risky for most of us to do so without losing our jobs.

I think it deserves ALL the upvotes. It has opened a dialog for people from other countries to see. You do not know what good might come of other countries learning why we do not raise up en masse and protest.

That's not the subject of the OP. The subject and point was to belittle Americans for not protesting, even if they said it wasn't. They weren't looking for discussion.

One thing I dislike is when trump insults out health care system, as an Ontario citizen I honestly have 0 complaints about our health care system

Americans are waking up. Why do you think Trump is so popular?

For many people, the line of thinking is that Trump is the only option that isn't an "established" politician. We've been told our entire lives that you can't waste a vote on something that isn't the "main event" so in their mind it is either trump or clinton.

He is a paid actor nothing more come on people. Wake up.

Source for that?

I notice you don't like Trump, would you mind explaining why?

I'll bite.

I think Trump is dangerously incompetent, a buffoon, I think he is very disrespectful and rude and has terrible diplomatic skills. I think he has little to no understanding of how international commerce works, he has been consistently anti-intellectual, and I don't like his stance on global warming.

And finally, I think his tax plan is literally retarded. Trickle down economics have literally never worked, idk why anything thinks they are about to work now.

I also don't understand why all these people on here think he is so anti-establishment, anti-globalist, when he plans on giving all his billionaire friends the largest tax cuts in history? Come on...

Anyway, that's my reasoning.

I think Trump is dangerously incompetent, a buffoon, I think he is very disrespectful and rude and has terrible diplomatic skills. I think he has little to no understanding of how international commerce works, he has been consistently anti-intellectual, and I don't like his stance on global warming.

Much of this is opinion and I would be of the opposing belief. He looks competent, he has a successful business and ran his campaign against the tide quite masterfully. I don't think he's anti-intellectual, recently he talked about how he wanted to expand NASA.

His tax plan sounds pretty sweet for the average american to my ears, it might even help people start businesses. Maybe his friends might get tax cuts, but I'm pretty sure he planned to fix the gaps big companies are using to evade taxes. In the end, taxing a fraction of big company revenues is better than trying to take a bigger part that they simply dodge.

I also don't understand why all these people on here think he is so anti-establishment, anti-globalist, when he plans on giving all his billionaire friends the largest tax cuts in history? Come on...

Do your research, watch his speeches, listen to what he has to say, not what the media wants you to hear and you might figure this one on your own.

Good day to you

Do your research

I always do.

not what the media wants you to hear

I don't own a TV, and don't consume any MSM on a regular basis,

His tax plan sounds pretty sweet for the average american to my ears

I can understand that, if you don't have a good grasp of the history of "trickle down economics." The TLDR is that similar policies have never worked. It's been thoroughly debunked that giving tons of tax breaks the most wealthy will do anything to help the middle class.

watch his speeches, listen to what he has to say

I'm the kind of person that thinks it is foolish to believe anything that a politician says while giving a stump speech. Everyone will get better jobs, crime goes down, we defeat the terrorists, and everyone gets a free pony. It's the same shit all the time.

I judge candidates by their record. And frankly, Trump's record does not impress me. All the evidence I've seen indicates that he would probably be a used car salesman right about now, if he his daddy wasn't rich as fuck.

He looks competent

Not to me, and millions of other people.

ran his campaign against the tide quite masterfully

Again, this is subjective. And my opinion is literally the opposite. I think his campaign has been a dumpster fire, literally one of the worst run campaigns in history.

I mean, Hillary is one of the worst candidates to ever run, before. Completely loaded with scandals, literally under FBI investigation, the least trusted major party candidate in history, the list goes on... And yet, Trump is struggling. I know, many Trump supporters blame that on "media bias," but again, if Trump was so competent I would think he could turn that around a little bit.

Anyway, this is largely opinion, as is all of politics.

So thank you for listening to my perspective.

If you take anything away from this exchange, I hope it's the understanding that someone can be against Trump without being some braindead plebe that gets all their information from CNN.

And yet, Trump is struggling

Says who? I see plenty of support behind him and barely any for HRC.

If you take anything away from this exchange, I hope it's the understanding that someone can be against Trump without being some braindead plebe that gets all their information from CNN.

Oh I'm aware, though MSM covers more than CNN.

I judge candidates by their record. And frankly, Trump's record does not impress me. All the evidence I've seen indicates that he would probably be a used car salesman right about now, if he his daddy wasn't rich as fuck.

Oh please, at this point you're just jealous. He took a loan from his rich father (he's lucky) and built a business empire of his own. How is that a bad track record lol.

If he had just invested the money he inherited in the S&P500, he'd have more money now.

This has nothing to do with jealousy or personal feelings, and I don't understand why you'd bring that up. Honestly, I thought we were having a pleasant exchange, a refreshing change amidst this divisive election season. But then you go and make some crack about me being jealous of Trump's money? sigh

I didn't come here to debate about Trump's credentials. You wanted to know why some people don't like Trump, and I think I gave you a very reasonable and polite response.

Let's not go to that other place, where we devolve into bickering about sources credibility and the subjective nature of "success." There's really no point.

So please, in the interest of civility, can we just agree to disagree? I have no attacked you for your believes, so please be respectful of mine. We're both American (i think), and I feel that we both want a better future for our families and countries.

So, if we were in person, this is where I'd suggest we shake hands...

I have no problem with agreeing to disagree.

Though I'll reiterate that thinking Trump would be a used car salesman if it wasn't for his father is simply wrong. Maybe he wouldn't have made it this far but he has ambitions and works towards them.

I'm not american but a neighbor from the north (hopefully we can vote trudeau off next time around).

I'll end my side on this note: If I was to vote in the US at this very moment, any other choice than the one that will send the country into mass civil unrest on top of the possibility of an all out war with russia is the right choice. That choice can be composed of Donald, Gary, Jill, other independents. I'm not 100% on Trump's policies, there are some I don't like, but I think he's the most qualified of the lot to get this country back on track.

There is no person suited to rule over another

Something something racism... something.. grab her pussy. Whatever the media can throw and sticks.

It's a conspiracy here that people think trump cannot be honestly criticized.

When I hear a Presidential candidate call out the Federal reserve and start speaking about the Ponzi scam that is fractional reserve banking, I will know them to be the one.

I wish we were on the timeline where Ron Paul is running against Bernie, that would be way more interesting. This election boils down to how much shit each monkey can fling at the other.

A worthy election for sure. Alas, the only way I foresee such an event is if Trump wins. Hillary is jailed (assuming the seemingly impervious mystical forcefield that surrounds her ever malfunctions). Trump then goes on to make a complete and utter uberfuck of the Presidency. The masses on either side drop their partisan bullshit as the veil finally descends on the non stop fuckeries that we call Government. Both sides push hard and get Sanders and Paul on the ticket. We get to see what an actual election looks like when both candidates are working for the people. Imagine that.

I think most of the drama will occur after the popular vote on Nov 8th, up until Inauguration Day Jan 20th 2017. https://www.archives.gov/federal-register/electoral-college/key-dates.html

Paul Vs Sanders would be a battle of the best of both worlds. 99% about what they bring to the table, 1% scandals. All the while the media attempts to paint both of them with the crazy brush.

Why can't we live on this timeline? Why aren't we? What happened?

Dear Canadian, When you say "protest your shitty system," to us Americans, please be specific: health care, health insurance, taxation, federal government, state government, local government, corruption, environmental protection, discrimination, etc.

Because to many Americans are willfully ignorant. Have you been to /r/politics? It is disgusting and disheartening to read all the support people give the Clinton campaign. How anyone in their right mind could ever support such a corrupt and immoral person to be their leader is fucking insane. There is actual written proof of Hillary's regime acting against Bernie, who everyone loved, now all those Bernie lovers are supporting the woman who directly fucked him over. I just don't get it. And the worst part is, Trump is just as bad.

Don't forget to factor in Tribalism. I've lost track of how many nights I've slept on the couch for saying to my wife that while Trump's comments on women aren't PC and I don't support them, it doesn't disqualify him to run for / be elected President. For her, his views on women / non-white people are the only thing that matters.

Have you asked her what she thinks his views on women are? The only reason she would see him as some misogynist would be if she bought into the media's narrative. Same goes for the non-white statement.

Trump is just as bad.

How the hell?

Have you seen how overly militarized our police are?

Well if the pentagon didn't sell off their excess military hardware to somebody, they couldn't very well order more new hardware and keep the military contractors employed. /Sarcasm

For fear of being pepper sprayed / shot / killed / beaten / whatever. I believe in peaceful protests, but I also believe that plants are placed to end that peace, and I'm personally just too damn scared.

it's strategic desensitization. The more politicians can make this a shit show the more people tend to care. Pretty soon the only people caring are the people who are already invested in Trump/Hillary and then they move to snag those whales so that they can win the election.

Apathy of the politically moderate/sane people is literally going to make trump/Hillary win the election.

That and the fact that the 99% of the voting populous have no idea about how the government is run or to what affect the president has control over the economy/law making/etc and we're relying on these idiots to select the next president of the United States.

How many times have you heard people "oh, president made these promises, and said that things would be completely different from previous president, but things are going just as same as the previous presidents administration"

It's because The presidents hands are tied in a lot of aspects including paying back favors from all the lobbyists and sponsors that they borrowed money from. All of them are to some degree puppets. I mean if we elected Bernie Sanders as president, you'd probably see him get criticized for all the shit that president Obama continued on from Bush and what not (Though honestly, if he had been elected atleast we'd have a moral president that seeks to empower the nation and not someone who makes the story about himself and shout how he'd sue his enemies or grace the nation with his power and what not.)

Bernie could have had the backing needed to change things. He still raises millions at the drop of a hat when he reaches out to his supporters. This election is all about anti establishment, we had two and were going to end up with the fucking orange one.

Your government canceled your Charter rights and established a secret police with bill C-51. You subsequently elected the party who enabled it, pretended they were going to amend it, and are now making excuses as to why they aren't going to amend it.

Are you out in the streets protesting? Or shitposting about a different country's faults?

Nobody can agree on any cause to unite over. We're a complacent and lazy people content with the status quo. The disinformation has ruined us this election.

yeah let's protest, then they will... umm... restart the election with new nominees? No. So, what are we demanding? More candy? Less war? It feels nice to protest that but it has never ever done anything.

The Bystander Effect. No one will do anything until someone else does. People these days have been programmed to be complacent, obedient, and quite frankly, sheep. A smart mind is dangerous after all.

Wouldn't be interesting if subs like this are created so people have a way to vent instead of taking it to the streets.

As an American dude watching what's unfolding in the US, I don't have an answer as to why. People usually only protest/rebel when something happens to effect them personally and I think the vast majority are anesthetized on mass media and smartphones to where they care more about what's going on with the Kardashians than their own country.

We prefer to NOT think or do anything, even if upheld Constitutionally, about our lives and the "leaders" we choose to fuck over said lives.

We're pretty much cabbages at this point. Give the educational system a few more decades and we'll have serious problems determining which shoe to put on which foot.

Now, let all the completely useless keyboard warriors attack because, as those of us left who actually can think about this shit know, THAT'S what you've been trained to do and you're told that you're actually accomplishing something...

...you're not. They know you're not. That's why you're given this useless avenue to "vent" on - because they know nothing will come of it and still you feel you've made your point and "really made a difference".

A fucking tempest in a teacup and the teacup doesn't matter.

Because it's a great way to get arrested. We've lost the constitutional right to peaceful assembly. We're all just waiting our turn to get droned at this point

...and with prisons using inmates for slave labor, it's an great way for the police to get bonuses by bringing in droves of new prisoners slaves.

Because we're too busy loading our weapons quietly.

Harper.

I was in downtown San Francisco in 2003, in what's been recorded as the largest protest in human history, a global protest which was in many major US cities. The few times we were mentioned in the press, our numbers were underreported, we were characterized as being anti-American. The largest protest in the country's history did nothing to stop the war.

I was one of those wide-eyed optimists out on the streets a few years ago for Occupy. I wasn't really all that surprised that the cops didn't like us or that we were demonized in the press. What did surprise me was how many people's voices suddenly went silent when we asked them to act in accordance with what they've been saying for years. What did surprise me was the bizarre skepticism coming from the center and the left of the movement.

Campaign finance reform is quite possibly the most important issue in my country, but between voter apathy and entrenched systems of power, I cannot do a thing to budge it. In a democracy, you get the government you deserve.

Yea because Trudeau isn't a globalist piece of shit too and Canada isn't literally owned by the US and Israel.

According to the MSM everything is Russia's fault. But seriously, America is probably one of the worlds most propagandized nations next to North Korea. The people have been brain washed into believing that what is happening right now is somehow of no real concern...and most Americans believe it because some sold out talking head on TV said it. The MSM is creating reality for those people and that reality has them going about their business as if its just another day at the park.

Americans who are awake are looking upon this election with horror. Trying to protest brings on the Militarized Police State and protesters are demonized by the MSM and tasered and shot by police. That's how the establishment makes it go away if it's even reported on to begin with. Last summer there were huge protests in Washington DC. Never made the TV and was never talked about. Is as if they never happened.

Add in the constantly cycling 24-hour news cycle. I'm pretty sure thats a "feature" not a bug of journalism. Mention something for a day then on to the next thing so if you blink you miss it.

People are protesting, you just don't see it in the news.

No one over about 30 seems to believe the corruption. They think that they can change their world with a nov 8 ballot. Hell, about a third of the women in my life think Hillary is a saint.

See the occupy movement.

The fact is, the country us largely split. The left and the right hate each other too much to realize we are getting fucked from both angles.

Even here in Burlington Vermont, where there are Bernie stickers on every car, where I've seen Bernie walking around a hundred times before he was famous, people are still going to go out en masse and vote for a pro war candidate because their hatred of the right is deeper than their hatred of corporatism.

Other parts of the country it's the same thing, but the hate is in reverse.

Trump has a lot of ardent supporters, but most of them just hate the left.

Anyone but Hillary, anyone but Trump. That way we end up with one of them, guaranteed. Every four years it's the same

Only difference now is internet penetration.

It's because everyone hates each other both sides of the aisle have brainwashed their base and they all believe the horse shit lies and propaganda spewed from left and right wing sources while the bulk of society could give a fuck less because of entertainment driven television and everything thing they have going on (mortgages and car loans etc). This Internet age has brought about a bunch of loudmouth do nothings who are happy to talk shit but not motivated enough to take to the streets and protest.

Everyone's always been a loudmouth do nothing. Just loudmouth do nothing's used to hit the streets because that was the only forum.

Now we literally have access to 80+% of the world to be loudmouth do nothing's at.

It's nothing, we are America - we do everything bigger and more fantastic than the rest of the world, including our fuck ups.

People take presidential elections too seriously anyways - there is very little either of these two assholes can do on their own.

...wait for it. It's coming.

Quality of like in USA is so high that politicians can do a lot of bad shit but nobody will get riled up and risk ruining what they have.

Very true. Even with the shitty politics, we still have it a lot better than some people in other countries

As long as people have TV and McDonald's nothing will change.

Protest get 5 minutes of public notice at most.

I'm voting but am open to viable suggestions...

because one side actually supports corruption and illegal behavior as long as the "ends justifies the means", thus the reason hillary is their candidate. They tried to protest by voting in Bernie but their own side fucked them over by rigging their own primary election to oust him and his supporters.

The other side nominated the one "anti-establishment" candidate in hopes that he wins and starts the process of tearing the whole corrupt system down. This is their protest.

Those are the 2 sides at this moment. We literally have 2 sides to a civil war facing off right now. Voting comes first in the process. If that doesn't work, then we can move on to the violence and all out shitstorm of a war, and no matter which one wins, it's likely to come to that stage soon.

Also as a Canadian, its easy to poke at the US system and pretend that ours isn't just as broken

They militarized the police and implemented hypersurveillance to prevent this very thing.

We're Americans most of which are either too lazy to get up and do something about it or feel like their rant on Facebook is enough to get the word out, both of which are a problem.

I wish we would learn from the French and strike more, protest on the streets more.

But I'm in Canada..

You're absolutely right! I for one as a life long tinfoil hat wearer have been protesting in the streets since high school. Been doing it for 15 years now and will continue todo until the fascists shoot me! Some things are more important than what's on TV or Reddit. Some times you just gotta take matters into your own hands and remember that you're a GOD DAMN CITIZEN OF THE MOTHERFUCKING UNITED STATES!!! THEY'RE NOT GOING TO FUCK UP MY SHIT WITHOUT A BIG TIME FIGHT!!! ENOUGH OF YOUR PUSSY EXCUSES!!! Image if the founding fathers just said, "Fuck it! It's too hard to stop the British! They have an army, a world class navy, crap tons of money!" If you think protesting in the streets doesn't have an effect on people in this day and age where we're all connected digitally GUESS THE FUCK WHAT? YOUR WRONG MOTHERFUCKER!!! Occupy Wallstreet, Black Lives Matter, this shit has an effect! Yeah it's hard BECAUSE FREEDOM AIN'T EASY BITCHES!!! TRUMP AND CLINTON DON'T REPRESENT FREEDOM, THEY'RE THE ONES TO PUT THE BOOTS ON THE THROATS OF YOUR KIDS! The future is worth fighting for and life is too short to worry about dying. JUST LIVE FOR THE FREEDOM THAT WE WERE BORN SEEKING AND HUNGRY FOR!!! . . . I've been drinking but I'm serious. Get off your computer and go protest!✊

short answer: because we're smart

longer answer: because we know that physical protesting gets you put in jail, peppersprayed or maybe even killed.

even longer answer: We are protesting with information. That's what we do, we're digging and digging and producing and producing and guess what? It's working.

Reddit is responsible for finding Combetta, no amount of holding shitty signs at an intersection would have done that.

And also 4chan

And most of all wikileaks.

These guys produce info, and its our job to syndicate, digest and reformulate and push it out into the meanstream consciousness so that it has impact.

In this way, we've done our protesting.

As an American living in Germany, I'm watching all of it go down and I'm fucking livid. I have heated discussions about it with friends from places that aren't America and many of them think it's so funny because "haha broadsinatlanna is only 5'3" and she's screaming about politics, so cute." Only one of my friends from the U.K. has said that he doesn't understand why everyone isn't as up in the air about it as me. U.S. politics effect the world and everyone is laughing at us when in reality it's going to fuck everyone. It's just going to fuck the U.S. harder. Watching my country blatantly ignore the corruption that the DNC has working inside itself and listening to all alive former presidents say not to support Trump and having no other option because my option was literally cheated out of the race is fucking deplorable. I want America to be thrown into chaos and misery. I want this election to happen and no matter who wins I want banks to fail and wars to break out and poverty to sweep the nation so we will grow a fucking spine and oust OUT whoever got in and revamp the shitty system we allowed to be born and grow into what it is today.

Because the divided nation doesn't all see the red flags In MA (my state) Hillary is the angel to destroy Trump and his bigotry, as if womens rights will all of a sudden be abolished.

Trump supporters believe they are a revolution, if they take to the streets they will be discredited for revolting against a "just" system,

Stalemate, until the polls are in.

This country is full of dumbed down unenlightened dummies.
Just look at what's trending.
We're fucked. Killary Cunton should be hunted down and imprisoned for the sake of preventing WW3 but through fraud, coercion and deception, this psychopathic personality is still eligible to run for Office.
The land of dummies will remain just that.

We tried that already. They send in the agent provocateurs, EMF weapons and stiff sentencing. How bout you come down and help out if you give such fuck?

It seems the deep state is so entrenched, that nothing will dislodge it. When electing a president, you're really choosing a mascot for the deep state. The battlefield is not out in the streets, but in our minds. Modern protesting involves meme magik, trending twitter hastags and yelling "Bill Clinton is a Rapist" whenever a television camera is broadcasting live. So just because we don't see people in the streets, it doesn't mean there are alternate forms of protest available. Look what's happening at Standing Rock, and what occurred at the Bundy standoff. As soon as a protest erupted, agent provocateurs infiltrate the group to compromise it. Regardless of physical protest, modern war is fought in terms of information.

Thank you! I get really sick of morons outside the country asking this question. Our country is likely three times the size of theirs, if not bigger and happens to be one of the planet's three big super powers. Tell me enlightened foreigners, just how exactly would YOU handle it...?

Give it a week and we'll see what happens.

Food stamps and football (bread and circus').

So you believe that food stamps are a bad thing? Would you take the food out of the mouths (like mine) that can't afford food otherwise? Why do people feel the need to bad mouth food stamps? Oh because that is what they are told to think by the talking heads on tv.

I don't think you understood OP's question. I'd bet my life's that without food stamps you'd be out in the streets rioting, as would everyone else that position. That's the only point being made. Frankly, that's why governments have welfare in the first place. To keep the less fortunate off the streets and further away from revolution.

Don't worry, I don't want to take away your food stamps. I don't want a bloody revolution.

Ok cool. Your explanation helps thanks

People don't protest because that puts a comfortable lifestyle at risk.

I got debts to pay and a mortgage, and I am single with zero assistance from anybody.

Don't be so smug leaf, Trudeau is literally owned by this guy who appears to be very close to Podesta.

www.wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/30000

I'm not sure you understand what the words "literally" and "own" mean...

And get our police set on us? Naaaah

TnA on TV

They arrest us, put us in dog kennels, set high bail that will financially cripple the poor that are really affected the most, police shoot us, and then nothing happens because we've been trained to never be disruptive when protesting lest we be labelled as violent.

Most people are too comfortable to get a large enough portion of the population to take up arms. So hete we are. Our votes do nothing and our protests do nothing.

You make it sound so simple...

Social media is a stress ball where people unwind themselves instead of getting shit done IRL.

That is a very simplistic statement. Social media is for some, just a place to rant and get nothing done. But while those of you who just rant and do nothing were sitting around ranting some of us were using social media (and still are) to bring about change. How do you think the protests at Standing Rock got as much publicity as they did? (while still no where near enough, it would have been way less if not for social media). How do you think people in the tens of thousands got out to see Bernie Sanders at his rallies? If it weren't for social media, very few would have known about Sanders. How do you think BLM came to be? Again, social media. Did you see that one video of the guy who got shot by a cop while sitting in the passenger seat , the cop holding the gun to the guy as the guy bleeds out? You think anyone would have ever heard about that if not for social media?

You undersell social media. it's a vital tool in the present landscape of censorship by the msm

Because it would appear to be a pro-trump movement. Any dissenting opinion about Hillary or the DNC or the DOJ are all dismissed as trying to get Trump elected since it's an election year. The media is in complete collusion with those organizations and are responsible for creating this narrative. If Hillary is elected I think these movements will only start to grow and with the emergence of all these leaks, people will begin to search for and weed out corruption more and more.

As a fellow Canadian I have to think it's because they keep the population just above water enough that they don't want to lose the few conveniences they do still have. Once we pass the tipping point of working not being worthwhile anymore and having to fight for anything, you'll see people organizing to start mass protests or movements. That's what's happened in other countries. It gets just bad enough that you can't afford to live anymore and are pushed to see it's worthwhile to topple the system as it stands. It may take a while and the government might be able to keep it just stable enough to prevent it from ever happening but I kind of doubt it.

YUP. The only time I ever see my sister outraged is when the internet/cable TV goes down. Oh lord she flies into a rage like you would not believe. She gets on the phone and rips Comcast a new asshole. For decades her main focus has been getting home after work to watch her tv shows. I actually think that if some foreign hacker took out our internet she'd take to the streets. But probably not until then

except America's dollar is crushing Canada's dollar and the median person has an infinitely more prosperous life?

When did I compare America to Canada? The American dollar is crushing the Canadian dollar due to it being the universally traded currency and the Canadian oil industry failing (for good reason) with most of our eggs in one basket.

I don't know if you've ever been to Canada but to say that Americans have an "infinitely more prosperous life" is absolutely insane. Canada is near identical to the US in almost every way, housing, retail, travel, etc. In fact, the US falls well below many, many countries on happiness and overall life satisfaction. So check your facts my friend.

There are 10.1 million households in America with more than $1 million in investable assets.

There are 32-34 million people total living in Canada.

Please.

I would not look at amount of millionaires as a good indicator of a countries well being.

If you look at the average salary list by country, the USA is not above Canada by much. That also doesn't take into account cost of living in each country. Many things cost less money in Canada, other things less in the US.

My point is that your original argument about American's having an "infinitely more prosperous life" is ridiculous and if you look at average incomes, that becomes very obvious. If 3 percent of Americans are millionaires and 2 percent of Canadians are millionaires, how exactly do you come to "infinitely more prosperous"?

Well first of all, a Canadian millionaire is worth $300,000 less dollars on average just from exchange. Likely pays just as much in taxes, more for food etc. etc.

I'm well aware of the advantages of living in each country, and the pompousness of Canadians who think their country or leaders are any better. Nationalist propaganda works on everyone not just Americans, go figure.

I'm not sure what the point you're still trying to make is. I was originally talking about what would push a country's population to revolt and protest in large numbers. I said nothing about comparing Canada to the US. We are in many ways, very similar to the US in our economies and ways our governments run our countries but due to the magnifying glass put on the US, the world gets a detailed look at how things go wrong or could go wrong there.

Fight Club points out the Irony of revolting.

>implying canada isn't just as bad

because it doesn't matter...the best response is at the voting booth by the way...

Don't know about that. Rigged elections! Look how many voted for Bernie and look who is the nominee.

yeah...i agree on that point.

Remember occupy wallstreet? a lot of good that did.

They can't be bothered. They're too comfortable and too afraid of losing what they have and getting in trouble. It's the same thing across the Western world, we've all been made too placid to stand up and do anything. Change will only come about whenever it's too late.

Most people I've told about any of this shit don't even care . no one is going to go to the streets because no one even sees this as a problem . People are so fucking brain dead

While the First Nations stand together in solidarity to stand up for water, where are the marches, where is the political unrest to protest the fact that you have a system that is so broken that the rest of the world looks on in horror.

Reddit isn't exactly safe to discuss civil obedience. Besides the NSA, local police departments read and monitor this website too. So keep that in mind.

This is on the frontpage if you're subbed. If not you can't find it lol

Too busy working to take time off and protest the system.

Its easier to come here and bitch on Reddit. Ask anyone why they would vote for Hillary or Trump and they say its because the other candidate is awful, yet they dont even consider the third option. In fact, they criticize you for even trying to play outside the system. Honestly, whoever gets elected its the goddamn politician we deserve.

Because the idiots of /pol/ and The_donald will say the system is corrupt, yet will yell at literally anyone trying to protest it.

"hurr BLM are nigger savages"

"hurr Occupy Wallstreet was just a bunch of college bums that didnt know what they were protesting"

"hurr they are just liberal hippies"

I know right. It sucks. I'd like a little bit of anarchy and rioting. Maybe if we can send our country into a big enough shit hole I wont have to worry about my crippling student debt

Sadly, this is almost exactly how I feel.

I think there are two main factors - the lack of unity and cooperation in our society, and the apparent lack of meaningful ways to protest.

One thing that has been interesting/sad this election is that most Americans clearly agree that our current system is broken, but disagree fundamentally on what exactly the problem is or how to fix it. I think this is largely intentional. In particular, the pro-corporate hyper-capitalist philosophy has been codified into not just law but also culture. Half of this country has been socialized to believe that these things are virtues, and that individual accountability is more important than compassion and cooperation. This is partly a product of our country's history and, I think, partly a product of deliberate corporate control of our culture. It is extremely difficult to find agreement between this half of the country and those who brand themselves as "liberal," even if we agree that things are awful.

The second is that protest just has not seemed effective. It's hard to find the link between private agitation and policy changes. How do you boycott Wall Street? I think the media also has a large role in this. Investigative journalism has been so marginalized in this country that most people have no idea that the press is nominally there to hold institutions accountable. This makes protesters feel even more alone and powerless.

Because we'll lose our jobs, our wives will leave us and we'll become homeless. Or at least that's what we've grown to believe.

The fact of the matter is, most of us are ignorant, and amongst those that aren't, there's a large percentage of people that simply don't care; their best personal plan of action is to continue living their life as they currently are, so whatever else is going on in the country or in the world just simply doesn't matter. In the face of this widespread attitude, I have a feeling a lot of people that would otherwise speak up are convinced nobody will support them, and nobody will care.

Protesters are considered a nuisance in the public's eye at best, criminals and jobless agitators at worst. Police brutalize and murder people every now and again, and it goes unanswered. There's a lot of resentment in this country, but it mostly seems to get misdirected. Nobody really trusts anybody or counts on their neighbor to have their back, so we tend to just lash out at each other.

I fear things are simply going to have to get a lot worse before the average person feels any sort of call to action.

Honestly the most likely reason is that we enjoy our standard of living too much. It's easy to conform, go along to get along, and reap the perks of being the useful idiot. Not that I condone this, but this seems to be the undercurrent of the current situation.

That being said, I think people feel dominated by a lack of privacy and the average American probably feels like they have a lot to hide(smokes weed illegally, cutting corners on shit, the shame of laziness etc...) small things compared to these revelations but personally relevant to individuals in a position to do something about it.

Plus our culture has placed so much trust in institutions that barring an authoritative announcement that you should be in an uproar, most people are just trying to pay the bills and get ahead. Doing good and reliable work is valued, having an opinion is not.

And when the Marijuana bills all pass:

Hey, lets start a revolution! We've lost the country to a corporate interests and right wing loonies. Look even Bernie got squashed. We need a REVOLUTION. Just like the 60's. They had Vietnam, we have Trump! That should get people out on the streets!

Ummm, dude, just got some amazing White Widow with a bit of Blueberry, lets chill out with this revolution talk.

Takes big drag.

Hmmmm, Revoltuion is a lot of work right?

Takes another big drag.

Revolution, well maybe another day.

Takes another big hit.

Put's on the classic Led Zeppelin tracks, volume + 10.

Revolution in the streets. Why that's crazy talk.

Packs another bowl.

Looks at the setting sun. Woah dude. That weed is awesome. Revolution, well maybe tomorrow.

:-)

And HRC is still against legalization. Even if it's her only chance to win she'd be against it. Institutionally stupid.

We would have a French revolution on our hand in the current climate. I think that would be far worse than allowing Trump or Clinton to destroy their own party, although I'm not convienced that Trump is a real Republican. He's conducting a hostile takeover using the fringes of the GOP and the alt right. Who ever wins this election is the actual loser as they will be stuck with a broken economy and hated by at least half the public. I see them being obstructed, impeached, and checked by the establishment very easily.

We have to go to work to pay taxes, so no time

Cuz I just started binging the last season of Game of Throne dude! And then imma gonna rewatch Breaking Bad all weekend.

maybe we really do deserve what is happening

Cause the occupy Wall Street protests were shut down violently and only crazy hippy anarchists so such things.... (Sarcasm)

We are a people controlled by fear... Pacifism has got our balls.

My question is what would we protest for exactly? The election is a week away. No one is happy with where we are at but at the same time no one wants to risk their opponent winning.

We don't want to get shot by the police.

Fellow Canadian...agree the sub has been taken over due to anti-clinton issues. I've found it extremely worthwhile however because I don't think many Americans understood how much control was being exercised by politicians. They are using every dirty trick and hundreds of millions right now...everything is being done to win. It's a great time for people to really see the full power of the control state at work. This sub has been tremendous for showing people all the subtle and not so subtle control mechanisms.

We have to have jobs to pay for housing and we aren't allowed to just not come in or we would get fired. Not to mention that when the occupy protests happened the cops just arrested everyone and shot them with bean bags and tear gas. Not exactly how I want to spend my vacations days. Not to mention that the occupy protests didn't really do anything and they went on for months.

At this point I think the only way we could protest is through ddos attacks on government services constantly from all over the world. He'll even hack government services.

No time, gotta go to work. Then tend to kids after work. Then sleep and work again.

They've already shown their willingness to use military force on protesters. Any protest along these lines will be met with aggressive military action because America has experienced an internal military coup. The democracy is just for show.

Try mobilizing in a total surveillance state with militarized cops & controlled media. Now try it when everyone is desperate, poor or brainwashed. Now try it here, where most of us grew up unable to imagine our current nation.

We're like the fighter pilot who waits too long to bale out of his crashing plane - jumping out is so daunting that he keeps waiting just a little bit longer, until he is too low for his chute to open and slams into the ground in surprise and remorse.

We've been manipulated very carefully over the last few decades to be more easily controlled.

I have to work to afford rent and food. I wish I wasn't living on the brink of poverty but I am.

That doesn't mean you do nothing

Locally I speak to my mayor and council members. We hosted our congressional candidates at an art space I help run when I have free time. Tonight we have a meeting with the Chief of police because our town put a blue line down our main st for blue lives matter, our art space put black lives matter in our window and are now trying to be intimidated. So I ain't out on the streets, but I'm trying. Flemingtondiy.org

Trump is our protest to the current system

The thing is, Clinton really isn't any different than the average president from the past 28 years. People hate her because they think she's an entitled bitch, and maybe she is, but 90% of the stuff you read on here (110% on /r/t_d) is, in the words of Trump, wrong. Trump is the real danger. He's like letting your racist, sex offender uncle become president. There's nothing to protest about unless he wins, somehow.

America is not the land of the like-minded. You have to have a government that works for everyone, and that means making some people unhappy. So when there's a lot of people screaming about how things aren't working out for them, I'm sorry, you're not the focus of the country. There are tons of different types of social circles, religions, jobs, preference all sorts of shit. You're not a special gem, you're not a unique flower. It will never be like it is in smaller countries because we do not have a collective culture or mindset. Our president must work for all the people. That means a moderate. Not a liberal, not a nutjob. Someone who will piss everyone off at some point. It's what a melting pot needs.

Plenty of leftist organizations in the US are actively preparing for armed revolution, and rightfully so. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the last election the US has under this system.

Fluoride in the water. Strong teeth, weak minds.

Who can miss work? How is it you'd be able to just skip work in Canada?

We miss work to watch hockey. Thats about it.

You guys don't even have to protest. Just stop giving your money to big conglomerates. Protest with your spending habits!!! Buy local, support each other.

Here's my proposal: First the cities, then the states, then the nation and then the world. Creating a Wonderful World. (let's get it done already) https://www.facebook.com/groups/379816208803429

Let's talk strategies and tactics. Please present your proposal and be as specific as possible.

I would give you gold, if I could afford it. I am about to become unemployed at the end of the month because I've had a mental breakdown after finding out my three year old son has Lukemia. I've become so afraid of the outside world that I have pissed myself trying to go to work. I work as a bank teller at a local credit union. I've been denied any federal assistance on mental health basis. I take up to sixteen pills a day to make me "normal" to be able to function in society. Fuck this world, I hope their is a planet left after the investation of humans eradicates themselves. I'm angry. I'm heart broken that I have been lied to by my up bringing and government. What would you have me do? My coworkers shop for Etsy makeup bags and stalk people on Facebook all day. Even my manager sits in her office on dating sites and when you try to talk to her she goes on and on about whatever dick she had last. FML I'm too angry for this counrty. Sorry for the ranting and crying. This society has made me crazy. I've worked my entire life, paid my taxes, did what I was told, and when I need help where is all my fucking money I gave them? Cause I'm in small run down 400sq foot house in an alleyway next to the half way house of child molesters, (whom have more respect and politeness than most police I encounter), for $900 a month. How am I supposed to live? There are millions of people with stories like mine in this country, and when I bring it up, people chuckle and say "that's the government for ya". God damn it m'erica put down your lattes and wake the fuck up. Edit: this weekend is my 30th birthday. Yay.

Convinced this sub is where a lot of r/thedonald fled to. It's been a long time since anything remotely juicy has been discussed here. Now every post is about how Clinton hired hitmen and Clinton is going to be arrested tomorrow. Been beating that drum for a year now it seems.

Cannot wait for it to end to get back to conspiracies that matter. This used to be the sub where we'd hear about why the presidential election is a distraction and then hear about the actual stories behind it. Now it's just part of the facade.

We are too dispersed and convoluted a country for any voice to matter.

Cubs are in the World Series mother fucker.....

These fucking idiots voted for these 2 and the rest of us are fuckin stuck being the small minority that really has no say and just gets fucked by the stupidity of the american masses. Most people are so invested in their shit candidate that they cant take the shot to the pride and say they fucked up and made a bad choice and try to fix it. They will just run with it as most of us americans do and not admit the faults...even after the country is run into the fuckin ground in 4 years.

Youd have to disrupt internet/cable/power/mcdonalds to stir the american people.

4 McRevolution combo with biggie return to natural roots this winter on MTV

Plus walmart too

[deleted]

As a fellow Canadian living in the capital, my question for you is why aren't we protesting our own shitty governme-[FURTHER SPEECH HAS BEEN DEEMED OFFENSIVE TO THE QUEEN OF ENGLAND. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM ALL CRITICISM OF THE GOVERNMENT OF CANADA. ROB FORD WAS A TERRIFIC INDIVIDUAL AND AN UPSTANDING MAYOR. PLEASE REFRAIN FROM LEARNING ABOUT ALL PIPELINES - THEY DO NOT CONCERN YOU. THE EMPLOYEES OF THE CBC ARE NOT VIOLENT SEXUAL ABUSERS. ROGERS AND BELL ARE SIMILARLY UPSTANDING COMPANIES - THERE SIMPLY IS NO OLIGOPOLY.]

Seriously though, we're just as bad. The current (year!) government, with a few choice exceptions, stands for the opposite of progress. If it's not Kathleen Wynne trying to sell off every last piece of government we have, it's the west being beaten down by the oil industry. If it's not that, it's complete government inaction on the all-too-common deaths and disappearances of Canadian Natives.

Keep your eyen on the Trudeau Metre, fuck the police, and inspire revolution here, and for our southern allies.

Cause everyone thinks they're right and everything is ok.

People need to pay their bills. Americans live paycheck to paycheck.

And this is exactly what the corporations want. They want you to have a JOB = Just Above Broke. Keep buying but don't complain.

The worst-scenario with Hillary is that the status quo will remain. But, part of the current status quo (which makes me far less worried) is that the democrats are moving left. I wanted Bernie. Trump is bad for everyone, so it's only his die-hard followers that are going to vote for him. All of this [oversimplification] considered, Hillary will likely be placed in the office of the presidency and we just ride it out until the next election.

why is Trump bad for everyone?

He wants to "redo" our military and increase military expenditures when we are already paying an INSANE 600 billion dollars a year on policing the world. (Money that should be used in part to give health care to our citizens) He wants to remove "obamacare" and has no replacement for it.

Who is Trump good for besides the rich?

Himself?

We are too busy watching football

Corporations own the place. No matter who is in charge, corporations will own the place. Money controls the world, and the USA has a lot of money. Most people can't even fathom how much money is in the US, but to put in in perspective, the state of California alone would have the 7th highest global GDP if it were a nation. What this has done, is created a two party system that guarantees the diversified money in the US will be served well, and continue to make money.

This didn't really exist before the mid 19th century, in particular with the passing of the 13th Amendment, which was supposed to enfranchise former slaves into the "democracy," but was actually mostly used to establish corporate personhood.

We have become a nation of narcissistic people more concerned with the number of followers on their Instagram than they are with things that truly matter. It's extremely sad what we have become.

Pretty true. And I think the government takes advantage of this. They know any scandal will be forgotten the next day.

From my UK (England) perspective - you have the choice of a clown or a criminal. How did you let it come to this?

Because both of them opposed the Democratic Socialist, the only real candidate.

You now have The Clown as president. How does that feel?

I personally am dreading the next few years because few of the world's leaders and organisations are going to take him seriously or treat him with any respect.

I think most people are stunned. Naturally, the Trump supporters are dancing in the street. It's interesting to me that Trump got a million fewer votes than Obama's opponent in the last election, and two million fewer that Obama's opponent in the previous election. There's been a lot of talk about Trump's "silent majority" of angry voters who didn't appear in any poll, but mysteriously materialized every night. I doubt that. I think Trump's unpredicted mandate came not from Trump fans, but from those who despised Hillary too much to overcome their contempt for Trump. I held my nose and voted for her, but I can certainly understand younger, more idealistic people unwilling to do that. I think in the end, the Democrat Party brought on their own defeat with their sabotage of Senator Sanders' campaign in the Primaries, as Sanders had the same level of popular support as Trump, and a far more positive message. What will happen now, who can say? International leaders are being cautious in their reactions, modestly. Yet Russia, and the anti-EU elements of Europe have been ebullient.

Americans are too busy bitching about their opinion and killing each other to actually stand for something in their lives.

Source: Am American

I work for the city which means I'm technically employed by the Government so I risk losing my job if I speak out.

Although I wouldn't support either.

All of this is sad but I don't see a huge shift coming in the super near future. Hopefully something I don't see coming happens.

Word cloud out of all the comments.

I hope you like it

Thats why i believe the coming automation explosion and the coming job losses with it will free more people to get out and protest and make things change. It will be a good thing, because less people doing monotonous mind numbing shit will get them to wake up and become more educated - realize how fucked they're getting.

Most people have better shit to do and the kids are late for soccer practice

oh please go protest yourself

Look at what's happening right now. The reason the sub is all about Hillary is because she sits at the nexus of world power. She is the cold as ice heart of the establishment, and do you know what's happening right now? People are fighting the fuck back!!!!

Thanks in large part to Assange and Wikileaks the public has been armed with critical information. The FBI (for reasons we probably don't understand) is siding with the people. The news media has been utterly exposed.

So go ahead and make a cardboard sign and march it around the streets of Toronto. Down here in the US we are fighting an information war.. And this subreddit is consumed by that right now BECAUSE WE ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT MATTERS.

We are tired man. Alot of us are just one step away from ruin. We are hoping that if what they are saying is true, that there are some heroes left in the FBI.... Maybe we can take a breath. I am so sick of this shit. Please do this. When people tell you they dont want to hear anymore political talk, do not stop.Dig in and call them out. The people who want to bury their heads in the sand are truly worthy of harrassment since they are only cowards.

Cause there's like, new walking dead to watch or some shit

The real conspiracy here is the US is being set up to fall in front of communism. Clinton is a communist. Obama is a communist. Trump is suspicious too. Japan and Korea are now useless. Europe is now useless. And russia and china are now preparing the end of the west.

Also, Vietnam and Cuba being our allies is a farce; When the time comes they will betray the us.

Why:

1: Too many people are still too comfortable and or in denial.

2: Cops seem to love an excuse to play dress up, drive their APCs, and shoot people. That's scary for anyone with anything to lose, even people who only think they have something to lose. Not to mention, push too hard and they ruin your life.

3: A system this large and corrupt requires extraordinary measures to change. Either a very significant portion of the population taking extreme actions (work stoppage, unified march, etc)

Assuming the financial system isn't 100% rigged at this point, there's a chance consumer credit will collapse, akin to 2008 mortgages, and a whole lot of people will suddenly have much less to do and a nasty consumption habit they can no longer support.

On top of that, a whole lot of creditors will go under and I imagine it will cascade through the markets and fuck up a lot of things.

Maybe then a little reality will sink in and we can get to fixing our world.

The Soviet Union had to go broke and become nearly non-functional before they saw a major change.

They be charging their mobility scooters

Fortunately we have checks and balances, that mean that the president doesn't have the authority to do much on his/her own. Since 911 we have been giving an extraordinary amount of authority to the executive branch, but I think a president Clinton or Trump will curb that significantly.

Did you forget the /s ?

I can't even imagine either one of them consciously reducing their own power. Wont happen.

Exactly, quite the opposite in fact. Shi11ary wants to open the borders. So she can become the god of the entire world.

Shillery will of course try to hold all the power she can but sh, or Trump, will actually control almost nothing like all of the other presidents.

The people in real control are always the same. They never have to run for office and they never leave their positions of control. You must please those real controllers to even be allowed to run for office to be their front man. They do what they please and if Shillery doesn't like it, it will make zero difference as to what actually happens.

Yes, true, but shitlary is the figurehead of the powers that be. If she were a real patriot she would decry those people and push for reform. Of course that would get her killed. But that's her duty isn't it? As commander in chief she'd take the same oath I did: to defend and protect this country from all enemies foreign or domestic.

Problem is, she represents the enemy.

She , like all political contenders, lacks any kind of conscience. She finds she is not at fault for anything, ever. That self image is incompatible with what she should actually do. The main reason we only get people without conscience, empathy or remorse to run for office is the road to power requires that kind of unbalanced all out drive to even consider the journey. Maybe we should choose only people with a proven conscience to be contenders. That is, IF we ever got any choice in the matter.

Perhaps representatives should be chosen by lottery like people chosen for jury service? With strong recall powers for their constituents...

That would get far better results.

[deleted]

Oh you mean glastnost..it didnt work so well for the soviets

I thought this was the exact thing their 2nd amendment was meant to fight too.

It is.

The problem is the Founding Fathers making the assumption that the citizenry in the future would share the same sense of civic responsibility and willingness to risk everything to fight for the freedom they just did.

Yeah everyone is indoctrinated, and docile. You won't see revolution ever again

With muskets. And pistols and sabers.

No, with modern weaponry. The idea of a multi-shot gun was not a foreign concept to them, they knew that they existed and they knew it was a technological development and they KNEW that technology would continue to march forward. Which is why they said "arms" and not "muskets".

Air conditioning, fast food, must watch tv, those witg free time to protest are unemployed and unmotivated.

those witg free time to protest are unemployed and unmotivated. Not necessarily so. I am on disability and therefore unemployed but I am not unmotivated. I have to pick and choose my battles because I can't afford to hop a flight to each protest I want to join in.

And you know what? A majority of the unmotivated are quite well off in terms of employment. I'd say the majority.

You go out protest, make some people mad. Possible get beat by your own police force? Nah id rather stay home and pray for the best. Call me a pussy but i cant see protesting helping anything other than making our tyranny of a government more mad

You can’t help but compare yourself against the old timers. Can’t help but wonder how they would’ve operated these times. There was this boy I sent to Huntsville here a while back. My arrest and my testimony. He killed a fourteen-year-old girl. Papers said it was a crime of passion but he told me there wasn’t any passion to it. Told me that he’d been planning to kill somebody for about as long as he could remember. Said that if they turned him out he’d do it again. Said he knew he was going to hell. Be there in about fifteen minutes. I don’t know what to make of that. I surely don’t. The crime you see now, it’s hard to even take its measure. It’s not that I’m afraid of it. I always knew you had to be willing to die to even do this job – not to be glorious. But I don’t want to push my chips forward and go out and meet something I don’t understand. You can say it’s my job to fight it but I don’t know what it is anymore. More than that, I don’t want to know. A man would have to put his soul at hazard. He would have to say, okay, I’ll be part of this world.

Ultimately, we only have each other. And we're killing each other, on this tiny speck of earth in the Universe, over resources we could all share if only we weren't ruled by greed.

The Romans discovered the answers a couple thousand years ago: "divide et impera" and "Panem et circenses" - divide and conquer and bread and circuses.

What would protesting in the streets accomplish?

Those first nations are being paid to protest by international eco-activist groups with deep pockets. And the results are usually a few arrests and next to no news coverage.

How would people mobilize? What would that look like exactly?

I don't think you know what the word "ostracize" means. Care to clarify what you mean?

Times are getting more and more interesting.

I'm to busy working to buy more guns and ammo to go protest... Duh!

Apathy. Complacency. Distraction. We're either lazy, or busy trying to make ends meet. We're ignorant - some wilfully so. We get lathered into a zero-sum, Us vs Them froth, rooting for a candidate as one would their favorite sports team. We keep our faces glued to screens full of misinformation. We scoff at conspiracy theories. We embrace conspiracy theories. We hate our system, knowing that it's been misused and corrupted and exploited. We love our system, it's better than any other. We contradict ourselves and each other. They've worked together to pit us against each other. There is no We, no Us - only Them. And Them. And them too. I'm a special snowflake. Unique. No one is like me, no one can understand me. If Donald Trump wins the election, he won't be in office very long. Somebody wants Mike Pence in that office, and the money has already changed hands. Those of us who support or don't support Trump or Clinton or Sanders or Stein know we can't get what we vote for. Our police departments will make sure we accepte our collective fate peacefully. Now I'm going to watch some babyelephantgifs and doze off before I go back to work.

We need more community.

Bread and Circus

Everyone's too comfortable.

People are pissed, but stirring the pot while things aren't too bad in your own home runs the risk of it turning to shit for a short while which 99% of people aren't willing to give up.

Not to say I'm not included. I think about it a lot. Enough people actually doing something about being tired of the way shit works could bring change, it just requires too much effort than people perceive worth giving I guess.

You need a permit to protest and can only protest in approved areas as defined by local governance.

I wish I were kidding.

Because Americans like most people, are really a nation of whimps. People don't realize that there are usually a lot of harsh consequences for trying to change the status quo. The balance will have to tilt so far out of whack, that people will be willing to take a bullet.

Because we might miss our shows. Duh.

They combine fear with listlessness. It's a very powerful combo. Or maybe the fear turns us listless? Like "wtf can I do? Go get shot 37 times by the police? Go get raped in prison for 2 years? Fuck that. Actually, Fuck IT"

In addition to the posts about how we're all divided, it's important to remember that MANY MANY Americans are just plain lazy, stubborn and stupid. They choose to get their news from just one source, and when presented with opposing views, they get riled up and angry. Also, even many of the poorest of Americans, have enough in their lives, that they are comfortable enough that they don't want to go protest on the streets.

as another Canadian dude that has followed closely, I sincerely think either way you guys are kinda fucked.

The Canadian system is just as if not more broken, just in other ways. Our country is just as corrupt, deceitful and duplicitous. Do you need to look ant further then the Trudeau administration so far...

At least they aren't spread across the entire world trying to eff everyone while watching their own nation slowly burn. Actually maybe they are Idk. Either way, I think we're fucked here personally. Its a sad day when I, as a person born and raised in America, who has always loved it here, can honestly say that I no longer have faith in our "great nation".

Why the EFF did you allow Canada to disarm you? We might end up needing your help.

Its ok. I'm sure there's a few extras lying around in the U.S! I know people that have 30+. In northern Cali. These people are only like 28 years old. Imagaine when they're 60!

Stop it.

Sorry.

Personally its because if I left my life to protest elsewhere, I'd be fucked financially and wouldnt be able to eat.

Protesting at my hometown doesnt work either because Im in the middle bumfuck nowhere so like, 20 people would see the protest, with a handful being family lol

No one can afford to

End

Isn't it kind of funny that some protests have to be filed for? Like teacher union protests a few years ago ( my memory sucks) had to have a permit in order to strike. Think they give you the shittiest time of day

1. Explain how the system is broken. "muh disparity" and "wow both candidates sure do suck" aren't arguments and aren't unique to our system.
2. Explain how "mobilizing" would change anything, and if so, what positive changes people could make

Levels of agitation are low. People stopped protesting Vietnam after they removed draft because they didnt have to go anymore lol

Because most people who hate Clinton will simply cote Trump, and vice versa. Most people who care enough about politics still have at least one candidate still on the race.

We tried protesting just for the sake of protesting. See: Occupy Wall Street

Nope.

November 9 people will be back to talking about the Kardashians.

Im starting a new job in Toronto in January.

Fuck America.

System isn't perfect, but either President is hardly the end of the world. Checks and balances are in place, so the Presidents' largest role is proposing direction for the country. Proposing. Not mandating. Gov't gears grind so slowly that it's roughly 1 major change per 4 years. (De-escalation in the Middle East and the ACA were Obama's big 2.)

There are side effects like a change in culture/narrative based on who is in office. In this respect, I don't mind that Hillary seems to be playing the game REALLY hard, by that I mean politician-ing her ass off.

The media tells a story, and it's full of hyperbole for ratings. Not everyone sees that clearly, so it's kind of douchey that the media continues in that regard.

So our current system isn't perfect, but you either vote for "Team What's Mine is Mine, Don't Tell Me How to Live My Life" or "Team We're Probably Getting Taken Advantage of, But At Least We're Trying to Help Those Who Need It".

TL; DR I don't think our country is as fucked as the general public thinks it is.

Edit: TL; DR added

Nutshell answer:

The majority of the (R) side of the political spectrum are not into the "protesting" thing; it's just not their bag.

The majority of the (D) side of the political spectrum is fully believing all of the media spin that this election has already been won by their preferred candidate; they mostly feel they have no reason to protest.

You see what happens when people protest the system... yeah you don't hear from then anymore do you? Stand in the streets and stand up for what you believe in will get you shot in this country now. People standing up against the pipeline in North Dakota, yeah check in to see how they're doing after protesting the system.

Because the only people that have the time to protest are doing it for causes like transgender bathrooms and safe spaces. The rest of us are working to keep our heads above water.

Because people are dumb. This is probably one of the biggest reasons. They believe what they see on their main stream news media. That's it.

Tv party tonight

Because those who are middle class, the biggest portion of the population economically, are trying to keep our jobs, our seniority (so we can still have a few vacation days to do upkeep on our houses, so maybe we can refinance our mortgages). We need to keep our kids in school -public school- and be able to help them with their crazy homework so MAYBE we don't go broke getting them into a state school for college so they can also work their asses off to try and keep their heads above water. None of the middle class can afford to get arrested, either.

The unemployed are busy either trying to find jobs or navigate the ridiculous hoops required to maintain their healthcare or housing or sub-standard of living.

The rich don't care, they like the status quo, and need the poor and middle class to stay distracted by the shit media and the circus that is this election.

How do you know we're not? Because you didn't see it on the " news"?