[deleted]

Your 2cents very well placed.

OP needs to explore engineered weather that has been going on for generations. Granted, I cannot say what they spray but I surmise it cannot be good.

When I was a child we were on the Race To The Moon! Exciting! Awesome!

Jet planes never spewed shit trails that lasted for hours and grew over time to become grey haze everywhere and storms on magnitude never recorded in History!

But what the hell!

We're all born dying!

Might as well launch yourself first!

See you on the Flip Side!

Jet planes never spewed shit trails that lasted for hours and grew over time to become grey haze everywhere and storms on magnitude never recorded in History!

Yes they did, you are spreading lies.

We had bright clear blue skies! I know very hard to imagine!

We had bright clear blue skies! I know very hard to imagine!

Contrails have existed for as long as flight has existed, to claim otherwise is a lie.

I know what a contrail is. I do not know what is in the other trails that do not behave as contrails.

We'll agree to disagree. Keep looking or don't.

I know what a contrail is. I do not know what is in the other trails that do not behave as contrails.

They are all contrails. Your ignorance is letting airliners off the hook.

The 'chemtrail' conspiracy was likely concocted by airliners to take advantage of people without a basic understanding of meteorological sciences (like yourself) so that they could continue to save money by flying routes that were more fuel-efficient yet generated more contrails. Thanks to people like you, who are so easily distracted by pseudo-scientific nonsense, they can continue to do so, as so many people are fooled by the idea of 'chemtrails' rather than protesting the actual issue at hand.

Educate yourself rather than pointing to the sky and claiming that contrails are anything other than condensation trails, you are doing the world a disservice while simultaneously broadcasting your ignorance.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/georgemonbiot/2015/dec/04/the-contrails-conspiracy-is-not-just-garbage-its-letting-aviation-off-the-hook?CMP=share_btn_fb

http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-27907399

I'll agree to disagree with you.

I'll agree to disagree with you.

That's fine, the current political landscape allows for people to believe in things with zero factual basis due to the level of degradation of the educational system.

My education? You know nothing about me. Insults are adorable.

We're done here, okay?

My education? You know nothing about me. Insults are adorable.

If you believe in 'chemtrails' it demonstrates a lack of ability to determine the validity of information, to do adequate research, or to understand the very basics of meteorology. So yes, it reflects on your level of education.

We're done here, okay?

Whatever you say. Hopefully you'll take the time away from our discussion to actually do some relevant research rather than fall for the garbage in fear-mongering Youtube videos.

It wouldn't matter one bit the documents, videos, doctors, scientists and government officials that we could post for you. You're here with your agenda.

You sound oddly, like an alter /kinghell...

It wouldn't matter one bit the documents, videos, doctors, scientists and government officials that we could post for you. You're here with your agenda.

Just because you've been fooled by profit-seeking charlatans who photoshop images to prey on the ignorant doesn't mean that everybody is.

You don't understand the basics of meteorological science, which is why you believe this nonsense. If you find the time to educate yourself regarding the concept you might actually find a way to dedicate your obviously misguided passion towards where it should actually be directed.

You sound oddly, like an alter /kinghell...

What does this even mean?

I thought you were done? Why not go read a book about meteorological sciences and cloud formation so you avoid looking so foolish in the future. Otherwise, enjoy believing absolute nonsense, nobody is stopping you, just don't expect to be taken seriously by anybody who isn't so gullible.

Why not go read a book about meteorological sciences and cloud formation so you avoid looking so foolish in the future.

A Recommended National Program In Weather Modification - 1966 (NASA)

Weather Modification: Hearings before the Subcommittee on Oceans and International Environment of the Committee on Foreign Relations, United States Senate - January 1, 1974

Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025

Atmospheric Aerosol Properties and Climate Impacts

And from the US Code: 15 USC Ch. 9A: WEATHER MODIFICATION ACTIVITIES OR ATTEMPTS; REPORTING REQUIREMENT

None of these have to do with the idea of "chemtrails". You are conflating completely different ideas, why are you now trying to misdirect?

And yet here you are...

I'll leave you to dwell where you are traveler:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWAmICTFSok

I guess I have a problem with it when I see how every now & then the MSM get hysterical about it at opportune times, like just before the UN brought on Agenda 2016 (the new Agenda 21) then it seems to fall from interest again.

Also, I saw the same hype when I was a teenager, then no one seemed to care about it for 10 years!! Then the establishment got all excited about it again (& so the MSM too) around when someone came up with idea of carbon taxes & credits, etc. To my jaded mind it just seems to be an effective tool for people to feather their pockets and push NWO type ideologies.

I'm all for looking after the environment but I call bs on man-made global warming. The evidence of the Earth going through various warming & cooling cycles, the fact that the sun has been having a very active period of late, the fact that the issue seems to be used as either a propaganda, money making , divide the people, distraction, or a push an NWO ideology tool by TPTB, makes me cynical. Never mind the fact that the experts can't even predict tomorrow's weather accurately...

And the tactics used against deniers...if you deny it all sorts of insults are thrown at you even if you are for the environment, want clean energies & to reduce pollution. If you aren't allowed to question something civilly, you should get suspicious.

Exactly, when the idea behind "Global Warming" seems to be an exploit to tax people because of the "fear" then there is something shady going on. Cause taxing people doens't exactly do anything to "fix" the issue. What does it do? Give maybe 4% to help the cause and the rest of the 96% goes to the politicians that enacted these taxes?

Cause that is a likely scenario for nonsense tax like this.

While yes, pollution is a serious issue, the grander scale of us affecting the earth as a whole with our CO2 emissions can be questioned because there are so many other variables on earth that are of the natural occurrence that have the potential to add more CO2 then we could ever add to the atmosphere.

Just because there is nearly universal scientific consensus that humans are significantly contributing to climate change doesn't mean that the elite won't find a way to exploit this fact for their own benefit and profit.

People seem to think that people needed to manufacture the idea of human-made climate change in order to profit from it, when they could just as easily profit from it if it were true.

Consensus does not equal proof. Scientists generally don't make money from being self-employed, they require funding, no one funds a fruit loop...

Since when did consensus = proof...see Copernicus...

It is the regurgitation of statements like:

there is nearly universal scientific consensus that humans are significantly contributing to climate change

that are more oft used to apparently prove man-made climate change than any effective argument showing why the changes couldn't be attributed to natural cyclical changes in the Earth's temperature, and no the hockey stick was debunked, so...

I don't know it's hard for me to believe the propaganda, but in the end honestly what does it matter who or what causes climate change let's reduce emissions, stop pollution, use renewable energies but don't feed me bullshit about having to introduce taxes on private individuals to do so, don't introduce additional surveillance of private individuals in its name (e.g. smart meters) and focus more on introducing disincentives for BIG businesses when it comes to being environmentally unfriendly & incentives for the opposite.

Consensus does not equal proof. Scientists generally don't make money from being self-employed, they require funding, no one funds a fruit loop...

If you want to degrade this into a discussion regarding the philosophy of science then I'd suggest a different forum. If you want to discuss the actual science behind the concept of human created climate change and the scientific validity of that theory then that is what this topic is about.

Since when did consensus = proof...see Copernicus...

lol, are you seriously comparing science that took place shortly after we emerged from the Dark Ages to what we're experiencing now? Seriously?

that are more oft used to apparently prove man-made climate change than any effective argument showing why the changes couldn't be attributed to natural cyclical changes in the Earth's temperature, and no the hockey stick was debunked, so...

What hockey stick are you talking about? Why not present some actual facts to support your argument rather than just rambling?

I don't know it's hard for me to believe the propaganda, but in the end honestly what does it matter who or what causes climate change let's reduce emissions, stop pollution, use renewable energies but don't feed me bullshit about having to introduce taxes on private individuals to do so, don't introduce additional surveillance of private individuals in its name (e.g. smart meters) and focus more on introducing disincentives for BIG businesses when it comes to being environmentally unfriendly & incentives for the opposite.

Well, obviously. But this isn't mutually exclusive with the idea of human-made climate change.

I didn't get much out of this post.

I didn't get much out of this post.

That's not surprising.

True, considering you put not one once of knowledge into it.

True, considering you put not one once of knowledge into it.

If you're incapable of doing your own research, don't expect people to spoonfeed you knowledge. This was never supposed to be a discussion regarding the philosophy of science as the other person tried to divert it towards. Do you have anything to add to the discussion, or are you here just to complain that people aren't making things easy enough for you to understand?

I am highly skeptical of anything that people would suggest "deniers should be jailed." And this is a mainstream mindset within the current administration. It's fucking scary to think you could be jailed for questioning the narrative.

It's not so much denying it as it is admitting the absolute miniscule understanding of nature that man has.

Human kind is a blip in the time line of earth's history. Lets not delude ourselves into thinking any of us have a clue what is going on.

The burden of proof lies on the ones making claims and the ones pushing theories.

I've made no claim, and presented no theories.

I do believe you give human kind more credit then they deserve. It's a typical arrogant attitude of humans.

Humans are incredibly destructive, but that in itself is not proof for human induced global warming.

The planet goes through natural stages of warm and cool periods.

So many "conspiracies" don't actually deny climate change...they just state that man-made cc will pale in comparison to natural fluctuations built into our planet. I am in a scientific field heavily reliant on critical analysis of science (medical school) and personally I think some of the claims hold water.

Without first viewing this documentary (with some of the most respected academics in the area), anything I try to explain will just seem crazy. You may think the subject of the pyramids is unrelated...but humor me and give this a shot, might blow your mind.

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/the-revelation-of-the-pyramids/

also this http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/new-obama-executive-order-hints-at-devastating-space-event-that-could-disable-large-portions-of-the-electrical-power-grid-cause-cascading-failures_10152016

Why do you actually think it matters if there is relevant global warming or not, personally?

If there is and it's caused by human activity there is no solution you will be able to find acceptable nor practicable. It will run its course anyway.

If space weather is responsible you can't do anything about it either.

The irony is that just 40 years ago the "Club of Rome" pushed fear for another ice age. In the last 15 years it was global warming, the exact opposite. Do you seriously think the earth changes between two opposite states in that timeframe?

That should signal you that a certain group uses the idea as a hook to reach all people on an emotional level for a global agenda.

It's about global government and building a financial structure for it.

That doesn't mean there aren't valid concerns for a global government to manage resources more efficient but this isn't a world anybody sane would enjoy living in.

It would be a neo feudal world where eugenics controls every aspect(life and death) for the lower class. Watch Soylent Green and you get the program.

Man made global warming is a lie...

Because facts don't lie? Corporate interest does those....

$cience...

Man made climate change will cause warming sea level rise, more viruses, more extreme geological events, etc.

There is a natural "wobble" to our magnetic poles. This oscillation waxes and wanes within a range of the "true top" of our globe. Occasionally (possibly soon) that oscillation will get so large that the poles in fact reverse. This pole reversal is arguably responsible for 4 or 5 of the great extinctions. During this pole shift we lose our protection from solar radiation for possibily days, in addition to massive geological and oceanic events.

This is just one theory, but it has 100% happened before.

That does nothing to deny man made climate change, but it may be irrelevant in the end. Furthermore, it is a strong possibility that certain groups of people who "run society" know this is going to happen....which would completely explain the lack of concern for the state of the planet or its people...no need to adopt green energy or solve world hunger if the next great extinction is imminent (via pole reversal)....what would you do? Stockpile resources for a select group of people (ultra rich) and build your military as strong as possible, restrict personal freedoms and wait for the flood....kind of sounds like what America is doing, no? Kind of sounds like the biblical/Aristotle account of the cataclysm, no?

Maybe something there

Not agreed upon but take what you want from it. Geological and archeological science is very debatable across the board.

Corporate interests you say? Like big oil?

Big government...

There was an ice age and naturally the earth warmed up. Man made has some affect on global warming, but it's miniscule

Look at it this way, get a ice cube. When it starts to melt, it melts slowly. When it gets smaller it's starts to melt faster. The earth has always been warming up.

Relevant XKCD

https://xkcd.com/1732/

Image

Mobile

Title: Earth Temperature Timeline

Title-text: [After setting your car on fire] Listen, your car's temperature has changed before.

Comic Explanation

Stats: This comic has been referenced 457 times, representing 0.3415% of referenced xkcds.

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I think you would have to be pretty thick to think deny that ecological collapse on a massive scale is happening right now, however the powers that be give us "solutions" like carbon based tax schemes and state controlled thermostats.

If they came out and said "global warming is a serious problem- what we need to do is stop all of the wars, get off of fossil fuels, replace our food production with decentralized permaculture farming, and stop having a consumption based economy" people might get behind it.

Why is it that all of the "solutions" for global warming seem to benefit the people who are most responsible for destroying the environment?

"What information is so damning to you that dismantles all the evidence pointing towards climate change?" I would invert this. Why should I believe in global warming. I usually give this analogy:

A world famous physicist ask you to fly in a plane with him that he made.

You ask him "Well have you ever flown a plane before"

He says "No"

You ask "Has this plane ever been flown by anyone before"

He says "No"

You ask to take a look at the plane. And its a mess..their is exposed wiring, ducktape all over the place...you look at it and it just doesn't look right.

You then ask "Well how do you know this will work"

He says "Well I got the best scientists in the world. Thousands of them to review the theory of my plane, to conduct extensive simulations and worldwide there is not only agreement that the plane will fly but indeed that given my flight simulator training I should be able to fly the plane. In fact there is worldwide agreement among thousands of engineers, scientists that everything should work. There are literally thousands of peer-reviewed papers confirming it"

My question to you is: are you going to get in that plane and furthermore do you think it will successfully fly the first time

My answer to the question is simple: HELL FUCKING NO I AM NOT FUCKING GETTING IN THAT PLANE.

What would it take for me to get in the plane. Simple, the physicist should have flown the plane over and over again a hundred times successfully himself.

I will believe climate scientists about their 100 year predictions when they have successfully made at least 100 of them. So far they haven't made even one. To me that is equivalent to getting in a plane that has never been flown before and I think that is insane.

Notice that I don't need to know shit about climate science to make this judgement. As far as I am concerned climate science is a black box. All I need to know is one thing:

How many times have you successfully done this thing that you are claiming you are able to do

Who would benefit more from global warming being fake? The mega rich oil corporations all over the world in various continents across the globe whose stakes are fully invested into oil continuing its dominance until we run out of it. Why? Profits. I understand skepticism is the nature of this sub, but the amount of scientists that have shown evidence that as far as we can tell, this is a serious issue. Our CO2 emission numbers are not fabricated, these are real issues. Global warming is not a joke

Your 2cents very well placed.

OP needs to explore engineered weather that has been going on for generations. Granted, I cannot say what they spray but I surmise it cannot be good.

When I was a child we were on the Race To The Moon! Exciting! Awesome!

Jet planes never spewed shit trails that lasted for hours and grew over time to become grey haze everywhere and storms on magnitude never recorded in History!

But what the hell!

We're all born dying!

Might as well launch yourself first!

See you on the Flip Side!