This is what username2222 said earlier, which was an immediate red flag for me for appearing to be an attempt at perception management

So what happens if they come out saying the results were overturn and Hillary will be the president??^[1]

I have HIV username2222 and I think your views are exceedingly ignorant, given that you have the same internet I have. I can only conclude that you are a child who is asking an earnest question, so please pay attention to what your elders here have to say.

edit:

I also want to point out that Hillary Clinton and her husband made money off of knowingly giving 60,000 sick hemophiliac (NOT GAY) children HIV via a blood transfusion from blood their friend collected from a prison in arkansas, and allowed bayer baxter and cutter pharma companies to take the fall on the order of millions in lawsuits. Of course, it killed those kids quickly. Who is really to blame for this? Well I'll tell you: The Clintons. Are they in jail? NO

Should we hold THEM accountable? YES.

Also, their clinton foundation colluded to keep the price of the aids drugs very high, so they could make money off the discounts they got on the drugs, which they watered down and gave to africa so that Hillary could brag about it. Yes these people are evil

By the way, the social program that keeps GAYS alive with their medicine is called the Ryan White program. Ryan White was a hemophiliac kid who received Clinton's gay aids blood in the 80s and died. He wasn't gay, and it's not clear if the gay aids blood was gay or just a drug user's blood, in fact, it was both, because the pharma company took the plasma of ALL the prisoners and mixed it up, ensuring that the hemo kids would die of coinfections of HIV/AIDS and Hepatitis C.

Normally we'd call this 'eugenics' or possibly a 'genocide' but then fast forward to now and the Clintons brag about it as a political talking point and people like yoruself fall for it and think Clinton might (fingers crossed) become president one day.

Oh GEE. History: we don't need that.

Look dude, i think you're getting out of control. I dont know if you're gay or because you have HIV or a combination that made you take this personal but my argument is pretty legit. If you can counter it with something valid then please go ahead, if you are to bring irrelevant "history" just to change the argument then please keep your mouth shut.

Fuck you; you self important narcissistic troll.

Can you explain your accusations please? I see that you are gay and as i said this is not necessarily about gay people. I think my argument makes sense and its for the good of the many. If i was sick i would understand restricting myself to a specific area in order not to pass it to other people, and i truly believe is the right and selfless thing to do. If you have an argument please do share it and have a meaningful conversation, dont attack with meaningless accusations.

FYI: I dont understand why gay people are so eager to attack someone and call names. Just to warn you though that i dont take the bs that because you're gay and minority i should somehow treat you different and respect you. I see from your posts that you're gay and secretly wear women jeans and thongs when home, and as i said before i give no fuck what you do, you can sit on the Eiffel tower if you want, its non of my business, but dont fucking attack me because you have personal issues that you need to take out on someone, do that shit to someone who cares. You want to speak to me like a normal human then do it or fuck off.

Telling someone they're getting out of control for pointing out you're ignorantly suggesting shit like locking up gay people and holding them responsible for a disease that didn't even originate with gay people.

Edit: the fact you went back so far into my post history makes me laugh really hard tho; glad to see I got under your skin.

That guys was following me around and commenting shit on my comments. And yes, i think its reasonable to lock up 1000 people and try to control the virus than what eventually happened, no matter if they're gay or not, also i asked if they were responsible because that's what the documentary let to suggest. But you rushed to call me names instead of reading the conversations.

Edit: i just wanted to verify what i already know about gay people, this is why i looked at your posts.

You neglect to realize they had no clue what the hell was happening.

Exactly my point, all they knew was that something was wrong with gay people and their immune system was showing weakness signs and failing, they also did not know how it gets spread. So i'm just wondering why they did not round them up and carantine them while they figure it out.

because you can't just do that lol. thats akin to round up all the jews because they were an economic threat to germany. hell thats like locking up all the black people because of black lives matter or something.

Its not the same. So you agree in endangering billions of people so 1000 people can feel free? If i was Reagan i would give the order to round them up and put them in a city of their own until we figure out what is going on. Besides we all know that they were going to die anyway, so we spread the virus for nothing..,

by that logic we should have rounded up all the simian monkeys in africa where the virus originated; in addition i guess we should lock up all the africans that live where the virus originated too.

CTR: That's not true. YOu came to one of my posts and posted a CTR thing. I saw you posted a biggotted post and said something about it. That's the extent of our relationship, but I'll do you a favor and block you forever so we won't have a problem anymore.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5f44da/watch_how_silly_this_rachel_maddow_clip_seems_now/dahcm7u/

Well if you were not an idiot you would have understood that it's a question asking what possible outcomes are to come if the results are overturn.

It's a concern troll propaganda posing as a question.

I'll give you an example:

Should we lock you up for being gay?

Well my views might have prevented in you having the virus. So if i were to ask you that limiting 1000 peoples freedom would worth it what would you say?

1. In reply:. I don't know any group of people in all of history that when "told to stop having sex " did so. You might have noticed "abstention only" sex-education doesn't work. For this very reason.
2. Meta: yes it is clear your post is meant to serve as feaux-ignorance trolling. If not, then try taking a sociology class.
3. Meta Meta: often wonder how effective these posts are in distracting from actual conspiracies being leaked. Obviously I just myself wasted time on this rather than researching other topics in here....

So why not arrest them and restrict them? And a group that "stoped having sex" => religious people. Not that i am religious but religious people wait till marriage.

Lol, just saying, how did you miss that?? 😏

"Religious people wait till marriage"..You gave me a good laugh.

Well i dont know what "history books" you read but YES, christians from my knowledge did not have sex until they get married. Not all but the big majority. That was a fact for hundreds of year and even in modern days some who are very religious still wait. This is a well know fact, i dont know how you're trying to argue this.

"I love you", "Cheque is in the mail", and "I won't cum in your mouth".

Since you're new to this human thing, those are three more lies you're going to want to watch out for.

I'm confused now, were you referring to me? 🤔

One can't really establish that anyone knew it was there until it was already spread around pretty well, so there isn't anywhere to assign particular blame. There is a very good case to be made that it was accidentally spread by pharmaceutical companies in the hepatitis B vaccine, which was initially emphasized for US urban gays and junkies, and Africans in-general, because of the body fluids thing. The map of HIV spread over time overlays the map of hepatitis B vaccinations nearly perfectly; the HIV virus, previously harmless, is thought to have mutated as a result of the SIV infected green monkey kidneys used in the vaccine.

If you just have to blame someone, then those responsible for the production and spread of the contaminated hepatitis B vaccine are the ones. Be advised that animal organs are still a primary ingredient in vaccines, and there is still no assurance they are disease free.

I just never thought to do some research on HIV, i'll investigate and let you guys know 🤓

By the way, thanks for the info!

Here are some articles for you to better understand the timeline. Additionally it's important to understand when the CDC decides to make something pandemic vs outbreak or epidemic.

Essentially scientist realized early on that it was transferred through blood - it wasn't a disease that was airborne therefore HIV positive persons did not pose a public threat going about their daily lives.

In regards to not having sex - the whole idea was to educate persons regarding safe sex and HIV testing.

Segregating HIV positive persons would only do so much. As you can see, there were many groups affected by HIV that were not gay. Focusing on segregating a group that didn't pose a threat to the public would have been a waste of time, it would have perpetuated the idea that it was a "gay" disease and those other groups would have continued to spread the disease. Sex education and testing blood was the most important thing that factored into getting the disease under control. It was very intelligent to not focus on just one group that was contracting the disease.

https://www.aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/hiv-aids-101/aids-timeline/

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/recycled/2009/04/outbreaks_vs_epidemics.html

Thanks for the info. I wasn't saying segregating just gays, anyone who got affected. Well based on what i see now the sex education wasn't all that effective.

Not true - sex education is effective. What's not effective is abstinence only sex education. The prevalence of HIV is directly related to uneducated/poor minority groups - the same groups that often receive the worst America has to offer in terms of any education. Sex education is protested to such an extreme in America that it causes unwanted pregnancy and stds to include HIV. Even today, with the preponderance of evidence showing how sex education lowers the rate of stds and unwanted pregnancy - America insists on having the worst sex education implemented

Besides what do the wealthy and the government care if people are dying of these diseases? I mean these are the same people that gave African American men syphilis and with held penicillin on purpose. It's more likely, that government withheld treatment for HIV for monetary, scientific, and population control reasons.

I dont really know what sex education you are talking about. In most countries they literally have none. Parents teach their children and also sex education is literally a 10 minute chat. Why do we need to make everything more complicated here in America? Do we have a retard gene inside us that makes us more stupid than other nations?

Haha what? Just google European sex education vs American and you will see the obvious implications and discrepancies. The fact is that many European countries teach consent at a young age - starting at four - teaching young kids that if they don't want to kiss or hug someone they do not have to etc. this type of education helps children understand consent latter on, and assist them in coming forward if they were inappropriately touched. Studies show that discussing consent and allowing young children autonomy over their bodies is the number one defense against molestation. they go on to discuss how to use a Condom, how each disease is transmitted And even how to get pregnant. European sex education is so effective that they have drastically reduced stds and unwanted pregnancies.

Americans are uneducated in sex - it doesn't make them retarded. Education is the first line defense in preventing any disease - heart disease, cancer, etc. I'm unsure why you wouldn't want kids to be educated against diseases lol

Well i grew up in Europe and received most of my education there, so i have no idea what you're talking about. Also European laws say its illegal to sale alcohol under 18 or consume alcohol under 18 but i never had issues buying alcohol as young as 14. I even bought ones when a cop was behind me on line. There's a difference of what laws say and what is enforced and what accepted by the culture.

Edit: If Americans need to be educated what a penis is and common sense then what can i say. Did you get education that Santa Clause is fake?

Edit 2: 😂 Lol. Yea, please do tell me how Europe does it.

Edit 3: Also, in Italy is a cultural accepted practice to take a male to a prostitude if he doesnt have sex by 15. (Prostitution is illegal) Oh wait, just realized i was raped, who do sue??

Did you live in a hole somewhere in Europe - was this like 60 yrs ago? lol I've also lived and gone to school in Europe. I've traveled extensively and I'm quite aware of European education standards vs Americans. Your personal experience doesn't somehow override actual facts especially when others lived experience and scientific studies completely contradict you

Lol you trying to refute proper education against disease is really cute - as if people understanding how diseases are transferred is common knowledge. The fact is science is not common sense! It's also really cute that you think Europeans recent low std and unwanted pregnancy rates are happenstance. 😂

Your third edit is nonsensical and off topic - try sticking to the topic

I have family in 3 European countries and also in the US. I dont know what your experiences are and your "extensive travel" but what you say is nothing than the Europe i know. What i said about Italy is not 60 years ago, it was 9 years ago and from what i know nothing has changed. The same experiences are shared by all my other family members in the other European countries, except my family in England and the USA. I can write a book of how people here perceive things differently. There is no education about sex, or maybe a 30 min video showing the different stds. I learned about genitals from life/friends/parents. I really dont understand what is scientific in understanding how to appropriately have sex and how your penis works. How scientific does it have to be to tell a kid that he can get viruses if not using a condom? From all the people i know it did not take more than 5 minutes to make them understand the importance of being safe. What science do you speak about? And from what i know kids know that by just having friends. All my friends understood that and i knew that from a very young age, the school did not "educate" us on that. All it takes is one picture showing a disease effect and it goes viral among friends and within a day all the kids know this is real and serious. I really have no idea what your talking about.

I will tell you the differences though of my transition to the USA. When i came here i realized my same age family members were pussies. One cousin used to tell me he has psychological problems because his mom beat him up "1" time, "my parents abused me". And when i laugh and called him crazy he was confused. Kids get beat up all the time down there, you do something stupid, your parent gets outraged, you take the beating, you laugh it off with your friends and go do something stupid again. Literally one time my friends parent was looking for him with the shotgun 😀 not that he was going to shoot him but he was that outraged. They hide to drink alcohol or to smoke weed and can get in deep trouble with the law if busted, for god sakes they arrest you for peeing on a public place even if no one is around 😁 Some family members told me that had issues because of bullying at school, lol 😜 Really?? Well you should be glad you're in the US then because you'll feel is hell overseas. Kids bully each other all the time overseas, and i'm talking in more extreme ways than here. You know what your parents or school will tell you? Grow some balls and defend yourself. If you dont stand up then people will always take advantage of you. So after 2-5 times, you might feel sad, depressed or whatever but at one point you say enough and stand up, then they "magically" stop and find someone else. I literally stick a pen on a guys hand when i decided to defend myself, guess what? He never came near me again. Let the victim learn to stand up and the bully to take the damage, this way they all learn. And guess what? I did that while in school and the teachers did nothing, and i assume his parents beat him up if they saw or learned what happened.

Overall the differences are too many that i can write a book on them.

This is reality for me. This is the reality i know people share in at least 3 European countries. So i have no clue what you speak about.

Edit: Also, one time i attended a meeting where people from the education and science fields were there discussing similar issues. They all agreed that this so called "scientific evidence" is not what makes other countries have better education or more progressive views. They literally told me that Americans don't have the cultural and gene evolution to basically take on some of the progressive views other nations have. One science guy literally told me that people here are more stupid and need to be guided by educated, which i did not accept or agreed because they were literally suggesting controlling and guiding peoples minds and views. They told me that the US needs another 50-100 years of culture guidance in order to reach the mentality levels Europeans have, which i also did not want to accept because Europeans immigrate here every year, people will teach each other the right way and find the right solutions in how to educate their kids. Overall they agreed with everything i argued about but told me Americans luck culture and human revolution so they will not be able to make it out of progressive views better than before and they need to give them more guidance because its still a very young country. I still call it BS and i will never accept what they are doing so this is why i will never raise my kids here.

The irony of that meeting was solving education and the significant drop in youth interests in science. They were literally projecting that Americans will be one of the least educated countries on sciences and Americans will hold a significant low number of science jobs within the planet and the USA. This is actually coming true right now but i dont think its the peoples fault, its this so called "scientists" that manipulate the American people that i think results in this. They basically see themselves so above the average American and deny any freedom of choice because they "luck culture and human evolution". I do love the US, i really want this country to succeed and go back to the old good days where it was the center of innovation, but i doubt it will even happen while this kind of mentality exists. And how long can we attract science and intelligent people to immigrate here? How long will it take for other countries to establish good economies and create their own Silicon Valley?

You're not even talking about sex education for most of that diatribe

I've lived and went to school in Germany for over six years, I've driven to every country within an 8 hour radius to include England (well I flew there). I have housed German exchange students.

The best in sex education in Europe is in Germany, the Netherlands, and Denmark. While penis in vagina without Condom = bad is great, it really doesn't discuss - I dunno - oral sex, anal sex, and issues regarding sex with multiple partners. Showing videos of mangled dicks is proven to perpetuate the idea that if your partner "looks" healthy it's all good (not so much). America did a stand up job perpetuating that HIV was a "gay" disease (it's not). The countries listed have overall lover rates of stds period - especially compared to America where sex education is only mandatory in 30 states. Studies show that uneducated poor people are not having these things explained to them - for example my neighbors are uneducated and poor. There are about three families that live in one house. They throw all their old furniture and trash out back. To me - it's common sense that they will attract rodents with that behavior. To them, not so much. What is common sense to you - is not to much of the world, otherwise we wouldn't have these problems.

Your original post was about his you felt gay people should have been quarantined. You do not understand how the CDC calculates the status of pandemic. 1000 people over a period of year dies not a pandemic make. Therefore they were not quarantined

You strange insistence that sex education is somehow unnecessary in the face of SCIENTIFIC evidence is bizarre. Your notion of wherever the fuck you grew up is somehow the standard of all of Europe is a fallacy. Education = good - common sense, not so fucking common

In conclusion you should just delete this thread because your hypothesis sucks 😂

My argument was that to quarantine 1000 people is not unethical when its for the good of the many, the argument was that some people said it's a free country, so i was arguing that it doesn't make it a bad country taking some extreme measures like that. Also, yes, i think that while sex education is good its also not the only way, this should be something embedded and perceived as common sense. Parents have a bigger responsibility teaching this stuff, but i'm not saying its bad for schools to teach about it too. People need to break from the chains and speak free about their genders and genitals and make it normal, somehow its something that people are embarrassed to talk about here and i don't understand why. So you, as a good neighbor have you ever told those people that its not good to throw their stuff like that? Do you even talk to your neighbors or you just expect the system to "educate" them and while it does you call them poor and uneducated? Its everyones responsibility to help and share knowledge, this is what makes a nation and a great country. I speak to all my neighbors, i invite them into my house, i share the food i grow, i share my ideas and knowledge, because this is how i was raised up to do. I would suggest then to stop digging research papers to back up your claims and argue what is wrong and start sharing knowledge to upgrade the common sense so we can all level up and improve together.

Edit: also this is a great example. I like to grow vegetables and stuff in my yard, so when i moved here i started growing some on my yard. The first year one of my neighbors literally asked me if i really eat that stuff because they seemed dirty and what not coming from the ground. I laughed 😂 So year one goes by and year two goes by and while i was growing and sharing some with them it kinda became normal to them. Year three we had three more houses around my house started growing things too, one of my neighbors is Spanish, so he brought seeds from his country so this year we had a variety of vegetables and we all shared veggies with each other. The lady who asked me if i eat that stuff grew watermelons so she gave me a watermelon 😁 one person can make a difference. The best education is the people, not a research paper and a teacher.

And this is what i believe is the education you fail to understand. Have people speak free and see how common sense and education rises on its own. One mother will speak to the kids about sex, then another one will, then another one will and before you know it kids will know without the education system. But again, i'm not saying is bad for schools to teach it also. All the countries you mentioned, as also the countries i mentioned have similar cultures as what i said now.

Edit: Protect your tomatoes from squirrels. They love tomatoes. Or plant more so everyone can eat, which is good to give some food to the squirrels, its nice to have them around.

Another key thing to remember is that no one would volunteer to be tested, if internment was waiting for the infected.

Public health emergencies are greatly exacerbated by stigmatizing infection. In these settings, carriers will take every precaution to conceal themselves for as long as possible, foregoing testing and anonymizing themselves as much as possible.

HIV spreads through blood, gays tend to have more anal sex which is not unusual to involve bleeding. This is why it was more prominent in the gay community.

Transmits through any bodily fluid. Including booty juice

well back then they thought it was through blood at first, iirc.

They had no fucking clue! It was total hysteria on the level of like I kissing or water fountain usage shit. And shit lord regan refused to mention it for awhile it was a mishandled shit show

yes. i remember.

Makes sense. Honestly though it kinda made me angry. I dont know how accurate this documentary is but it seems political correctness helped a lot HIV in spreading. Like reasonable arguments were put forth but gays and media and politically correct people refused to cooperate and even riot about their rights or whatever else bs that they should have not argue about in a serious situation like this...

not sure what you're talking about with regards to political correctness. Back then the liberals actually stood for something, without them pushing the issue to the forefront we wouldn't have as many safe sex advances and research into AIDs. Conservatives were like "This is god punishing sinners"

Yea as i said i am not sure about the accuracy and the history on this subject. But they said they told them to chill on sex, and tried to close some public baths that it was usual for gays to go and have sex which ultimately failed to go thru, the Reagan said to limit gay immigration which was seen as anti-American by them, also they then started rioting when medicines were not effective or discovered. It just seems after this documentary i would do a lot of research on the subject and i might have to change some progressive views if this things are shown to be true. 🤔😡😒😟

So you're angry because Reagan didn't ban gays?

No i am angry that they started screaming and rioting without considering the argument. Yes, it was the right thing to do back then, they should have hold immigration until they have a better ideas of what is going on.

No. it definitely was not the right thing to do back then. Nor is it today. Unless you're Hitler.

Can you please explain your logic?

It's a free country.

You do realize this is very ignorant, right? First comes the safety and well being of the citizens and then the immigrants who want to come here. Also, is not about gays, if i see people getting sick as also little kids and they come out and tell me to chill on something because it might be the cause then i would do it. It might be eating apples, as much as i like apples i wont say its a free country and i have the right to eat apples, i would seriously consider the arguments and try to help to find a solution.

...say the morons who don't wear a seatbelt or take vaccinations.

I mean think of it. If they were to listen and not take it personally or as an attack to their lifestyle then many lives could have been saved.

People's lives were saved because they were encouraged to have safe sex.

After a serious infection was spread by ignoring the warnings? You think that is a valid answer?

Good luck with your polio...I hope they don't round you up and put you and your kids in a concentration camp...and instead just force you to take the fucking cure. smh

I dont understand your arguments. I think what i am saying is logical. No matter what the virus is, in case of something serious like HIV then yes, i would agree in getting in a concentration camp in order to prevent it. So you're telling that you are against in putting 1000 people in a concentration camp back then to take control and eliminate the virus than getting to a point were millions died and millions more are infected today? In the name of freedom??

Yes. that's exactly what I'm saying. Are you for real? Someone gets a virus of unknown origin and you want to take away the rights of an entire group of people regardless of whether or not they are infected? You don't belong here. Go live in the middle east if that's how you think. If the republicans would have funded research right away millions of lives would have been saved.

Did i say the entire group? Also please add "edit" when you change your post so i know to reply. I am saying the immigration should have hold and the infected people restricted.

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PC wasn't really a thing until the early 90s.

well back then they thought it was through blood at first, iirc.