Why Reddit took so long to police /r/the_donald
120 2016-12-03 by Flytape
So there is a pretty significant overlap between /r/the_donald and /r/conspiracy as many of you have noticed (the users not the mods). Some of you aren't happy about it, others are pretty pleased... This post isn't about taking sides.
Full disclosure, I have frequented the_donald this election season because I support Trump. I supported Trump where usually I vote libertarian because the potential for another Clinton or Bush administration really freaked me out from the moment that Jeb "please clap" Bush announced.
Anyways... What many of you might not know is that Reddit has allowed subs with far worse dispositions than /r/the_donald exist for years. The_donald is often immature and occasionally spawned some brigades towards /r/politics but being immature isn't against the ToS and subs like /r/subredditdrama have been spawning brigades on a daily basis which are far more destructive than anything the_donald has done.
If you've ever watched what happens when /r/subredditdrama links to a sub, the effects ruin the community for a day or more. I was once username mentioned in subredditdrama over 30 times in a span of a few hours, I mention this because Reddit has claimed that the username mentioning of /u/spez is harassment. Well when it was happening to me, frequently and in great volume, the admins told me to block people... As if that's a good solution when it's 500 different people doing it. And poor spez was being called a Cuck, well I was being called a nazi and was powerless to defend myself because I was banned from the subs spreading the lies, layers and layers of lies which quoted me out of context, misquoted me and at one point Joshua Goldberg even pretended to be a neo-nazi and started authoring neo-nazi articles on the daily stormer where he "confirmed" that I was some sort of white nationalist (I'm not and I never have been).
Long story short, the harassment directed towards me far exceeded any harassment that /u/spez received in every measure except for the quantity that the_donald was able to produce. But Reddit did not care.
Many of you are familiar with subs that aim to harass /r/conspiracy, but did you know that the same people who founded and operated /r/conspiratard were the same people who founded and operated /r/the_donald?
When the_donald came about there was a social fracture among the clique that was primarily responsible for most of the subs on Reddit with the MO (modus operandi) of targeting and harassing those who they are opposed to.
What had begun to take shape was reddit's attack dogs, their network of power mods like bipolarbear0, JCM, NYPD32 were beginning to split along left/right political lines as the presidential race heated up. JCM and NYPD32 to name a few went right as tokkul and others went left. But the attack dog culture, the harassment based sub idea was now firmly planted within the_donald and was squarely aimed at Reddit's favorite demographic... The liberal white male. And they branded the liberal white male "cucks".
It's rinse wash repeat folks. Conspiratards, cucks, nut jobs, nazis, etc etc. They call you a name, they provide fake evidence that you fit their branding and they harass the fuck out of you.
The real question is why does Reddit care now? And the answer is obvious, they care now because a handful of their attack dogs got loose and turned against them. The Reddit culture is a left wing version of the_donald and the_donald is just a right wing rebranding of the same shit.
Reddit is perfectly okay with you being harassed if you're a conspiracy theorist, a libertarian, a conservative, a Christian or anything that isn't in alignment with their California liberal ideological base. They will sit back and ignore your complaints, they will pretend like your community "isn't really being brigaded" while we have seen modtalk leaks from IRC and now discord chats where the admins are clearly a part of the cliques.
The same people in the recent discord leaks were the same ones in the old modtalk leaks still doing the same shit, still plotting to ruin Reddit communities of their perceived opposition.
The_donald is reddit's own monster coming home to roost. They didn't literally create the_donald using super secret alt accounts or anything spectacular like that. But the people who did create the_donald learned how to skirt the rules of Reddit by running all these other harassment subs.
All these harassment subs have done far more extensive harassment than the_donald, all of them have overlapping mod teams. At least they overlapped before the_donald was born. But the_donald is being singled out because they jumped the script, Reddit doesn't have control over this particular group of harassers so now they are going to do something about it.
Meanwhile topmindsofreddit and conspiratard are free to keep brigading other communities and harassing users all they want. Subredditdrama is free to lay waste to any small community unfortunate enough to be the subject of their judgement and shitredditsays is free to doxx people and get them fired like VA.
EDIT
It was brought to my attention that /r/conspiratard no longer allows people to use their sub as a base to crosspost and brigade other subs. It is believed that they did this on their own and the admins never forced them to do it.
however, my point still stands because the people who used /r/conspiratard to brigade simply created /r/topmindsofreddit and/or /r/ihateconspiracyclub to continue the brigades. /r/subredditdrama, which has by far been the worst in terms of brigades, still has free reign to disrupt communities in which they are not welcome.
81 comments
29 liverpoolwin 2016-12-03
Many pro-Trump communities on social media appear to be getting targeted, the orders appear to have come from way above Reddit
7 Glassclose 2016-12-03
could be a finale push for the clinton group in efforts to try and steal the election and get away with it with as little uproar as possible by breaking up pro-trump groups before it happens.
4 wrines 2016-12-03
exactly.
Reddit has totally gone to shit the last few weeks since the election.
I really feel like whoever/whatever influenced the subs /r/DNCleaks and /r/Wikileaks went whackamole and also took over /r/WhereIsAssange . To me this is obvious and horrifying.
Similarly, the Donald has itself been, tough to put a finger on it, "muted" for the last couple weeks IMO. I dont think the user base (myself included) has been less active or less vocal, but many people have noticed many irregularities re T_D threads being seen by the larger Reddit community - I really think there is major fuckery going on behind the scenes.
20 Drops_of_Light 2016-12-03
What exact harassment did /the_Donald do?
20 BusinessofShow 2016-12-03
There are a bunch of unsubstantiated claims that may or may not be true. It's blindly accepted as real though.
8 Drops_of_Light 2016-12-03
Ahhh. Makes sense.
17 Flytape 2016-12-03
Well the admins required that the_donald no longer link to /r/politics... This was in response to them frequently linking there and disrupting a community that didn't want them there. The_donald most definitely is a political sub, and on the surface there is no reason to disallow them to use /r/politics. But the admins didn't want them organizing their involvement there and thus stopped them from linking there.
/r/Conspiratard is definitely a conspiracy related sub, but it doesn't mesh with /r/conspiracy and we have repeatedly asked the admins to disallow them to link/brigade /r/conspiracy and they apparently don't care if our community it disrupted by ideologically opposed outsiders. (Edit topmindsofreddit is the current brigade happy sub, conspiratard no longer allows linking to us)
The pattern is clear! The admins want to shelter their liberal spaces while allowing a wild west environment to persist in any right wing spaces.
Same with the admins requiring the_donald to not allow username mentioning, they are happy to allow their liberal spaces to username harass people, but they shelter their own from the same abuse.
5 Drops_of_Light 2016-12-03
The good ole' double standard... well you know you're getting somewhere if they have to mute/censor posts. It means they have no argument, because if they did, they would use it instead of being like a kindergarten child who needs some safe space.
2 ruleten 2016-12-03
They do the same thing by creating a sort of class system on Twitter. When you apply they analyze your account for specific rhetoric to the left or right, give blue checkmarks to the Democrats and punish influential sites and contributors with differing opinions on the right.
14 liverpoolwin 2016-12-03
There are excuses appearing to remove all pro-Trump stuff wherever you look on social media. It's all part of a purge to make sure this never happens again, coming from the top of the system.
Places like Top Minds have been allowed to run for years, they are just making excuses to target a powerful pro-Trump community. Freedom of speech is dead on Reddit
12 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-03
It's much worse than just pro-trump material, they are allowed to run hate subs and promote ridicule of conspiracists because a free flow of information exposing the misdeeds of the rich and powerful is something the people at the very top of reddit, above the admins, can't allow.
They can't have the ordinary users realising the Status Quo doesn't exist for the benefit of the electorate or the betterment of humanity.
15 liverpoolwin 2016-12-03
CTR take over places /politics, turn it into a place that ridicules Trump and his supporters, Reddit thinks that's fine
Top Minds ridicule /conspiracy for years, essentially as a parasitic existence, targeting individual posters and making unnatural voting patterns appear in threads they link to, Reddit leaves them alone to continue, all fine
Trump supporters try to fight back with /the_donald, make a great success, play a big part in getting Trump elected, Reddit decides this is a Big Problem. Just so happens it's at the same time as Twitter are banning Trump stuff and Facebook too...the timing is just a coincidence though people, nothing to see here
2 twofaceHill_16 2016-12-03
R/conspiracy is getting taken over by liberal Reddit.. it's already happened if you can't tell
1 mynewspiritclothes 2016-12-03
Jesus, yes. I've always held the mind that this sub maintains an undertone of freedom.
You cannot be a liberal (I hate how they hijacked that word) and simultaneously believe in freedom.
1 Apoplectic1 2016-12-03
Really? It's done nothing but come just short of sucking Trump's e-peen for the past several months. All this after years of spreading the truth that no matter which party is in control they will only serve the wealthy elite. Now that Trump is at the helm we don't even have that middleman politician anymore.
/r/conspiracy has been taken over, but it's not by liberals.
2 Drops_of_Light 2016-12-03
Sounds like a bunch of butthurt from them. hahahaha!
6 Flytape 2016-12-03
The obvious attempts to do to politics what SRD and friends do to conspiracy. Until the admins stepped in and said they aren't allowed to link to politics
The obvious username mentioning spam.
Both of these actions are carbon copies of tactics already used by SRD and conspiratard. The only difference is that the admins quickly intervene, whereas conspiracy has been complaining about being targeted like this for years and the admins are like "toughen up, reddit is a diverse place".
1 creq 2016-12-03
This user base here might not be all that profitable or important to them. The tactics being used are complicated and cloudy. They intended to leave a lot of room for plausible deniability. The Donald has been screwing with a lot of Reddit and I suspect costing them money and users. I think that more than the politics is motivating them to do what it is they are doing now. That's not to say that they don't hate them for what they are, but I don't think that alone would be enough.
It's hard for me to feel at all sorry for them. You're right, it was them in the first place that enabled these types of places to grow and spread.
2 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
They opened a 'Pandora's Box'.
Fun times! heh
2 madmaxsin 2016-12-03
Apparently, brigading and harassment. He admits to it in this long rambling post.
-1 chinaberrytree 2016-12-03
Disclaimer: unpaid CTR shill
As far as I know, their harassment was mainly limited to light brigading and cuckspam. Which is why they haven't gone the way of pizzagate. The sticky abuse was why their stickies don't make it to r/all anymore. Which I'm honestly glad about, I didn't know that stickies got such a boost for making it to the front page. Makes more sense in hindsight.
1 Drops_of_Light 2016-12-03
So basically what you're telling me is that hardcore members from The_Donald is considered harrassment? How the fuck is that harassment? You click the link right?
-1 chinaberrytree 2016-12-03
For the record, I don't think the_donald should be banned.
I said light harassment, as in not worthy of censure. The_Donald's problem was that because of the sticky spam they were very visible. That's also why fatpeoplehate went under. The only sub that had anywhere near that visibility (on OPs list) was SRS, and that was more because it was mentioned so much, rather than hitting the front page all the time. It's the user attention and the media attention. Jailbait survived until negative media attention forced their hand.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-03
[deleted]
1 seeking101 2016-12-03
oh god lol, really? do people really think this way?
17 inbetweentime 2016-12-03
Damn, thanks OP for the informative insight at your own risk. Very appreciated and thanks also for the shit that you put up with in your efforts to maintain this place for us.
16 Flytape 2016-12-03
If you want to learn more go scroll through several pages at /r/nolibswatch
6 inbetweentime 2016-12-03
Thanks, fuck, I didn't think my faith in humanity could take any more blows for today. But yea, yea I do want to learn more.
20 Flytape 2016-12-03
The_donald was likely started by a bunch of Hillary (pro war) supporters who intended to piss off Bernie Sanders voters so that they would vote for Hillary in the general election. The Hillary supporters like JCM lost control of the_donald when they made a fake fundraiser site and tried to make money off the Trump supporters in the_donald. That's when JCM was forced to resign and the tone of the sub started to change.
In other words they got greedy.
6 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
Agreed. Seems like this is what happened.
1 ikilledyourcat 2016-12-03
hahahahahahahahahahah
Dear readers, if you dont know whats going on, check out /r/NolibsWatch
1 BBQsauce18 2016-12-03
From the very beginning, that sub felt like a giant caricature. It was so heavily memed, and still is. I feel like it is a room full of 13 year old's trying to have adult conversations.
Even now, I can't stand reading more than a few parent comments because they are so craptastic. You would think Trump was the fucking second coming of Christ.
11 _PresidentTrump 2016-12-03
GOD EMPEROR
2 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
Read more Dune, for reals yo.
Trump is no Leto II.
9 actualzed 2016-12-03
these people also created syriancivilwar and ukrainianconflict, just a coincidence i'm sure
4 Melonemelo123 2016-12-03
What's wrong with syriancivilwar? Just curious.
12 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-03
Control of information about the true motives and causes of the Syrian conflict.
It's also worth remembering that a company directly linked to Dick Cheney, Lord Jacob Rothschild and Rupert Murdoch have illegally annexed the Syrian Golan Heights to extract oil on behalf of western and Israeli interests.
1 actualzed 2016-12-03
at this point nothing much, they lost, but back in August 2013, everything was wrong with it, it got rid of its alleged impartiality and went on a full on attack against Assad during the Ghouta event, very much synchronized with capital medias... many non pro-rebels people, including yours truely, have been ban from that sub early on as well
2 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
Yep, it was initially a reddit cheerleading hub for a prospective US invasion of Syria. Zionist/neocon in origin I strongly suspect based on a certain "Bear" being involved as a mod.
14 BusinessofShow 2016-12-03
/r/topmindsofreddit is the sub that angers me the most. It's small so it doesn't have much of an impact, but the clueless smugness of that place almost makes me feel sorry for them. They link to posts here that have that are 10% upvoted and then use those post to extrapolate that all of r/conspiracy thinks that way.
8 StrangeAlliance 2016-12-03
[deleted]
5 godlameroso 2016-12-03
They don't see the irony in calling themselves top minds. Such fake elitism, unwarranted fake elitism at that.
2 givupyoureSurrounded 2016-12-03
Wrong. They're calling us Top Minds because that's just how fucked up they are.
3 godlameroso 2016-12-03
Oh I get it, it's supposed to be sarcastic, then it's still ironic because sarcasm is the laziest form of wit, which means it's not really witty at all.
2 wurrboutit 2016-12-03
That sub exists to anger and influence you.
1 SaintMichael 2016-12-03
They mean nothing to me. I never go there, so zero effect to my way of thinking. Just saying.
10 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
Great post. Great points.
Further reading:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NolibsWatch/comments/2a80u4/the_conspiratardsubredditdrama_dominated/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NolibsWatch/comments/3knaoj/more_of_joshua_goldbergs_bullshit_on_reddit_he/
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4mtfoh/psa_rthe_donald_was_created_by_the_same_person/
https://www.reddit.com/r/NolibsWatch/comments/3ralds/archive_of_ubipolarbear0s_original_nowdeleted/
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3 Amos_Quito 2016-12-03
You always do a fine job of connecting the dots and flushing out the trolls, Dusty.
/Tips hat
2 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
Thanks!
7 Domenicaxx66xx 2016-12-03
I am not a Trump supporter even though I was relieved Hillary lost but politics has been taken over by CTR and are so bad that they need reverse brigading to stop the censorship. All they allow to even make it passed NEW without immediate downvote oblivion are mass quantities of Trump bashing and negative opinion pieces....and some Bernie since they no longer see him as a threat.
5 Autocoprophage 2016-12-03
VA was a cool guy, and as a connoisseur of fucked up media myself, I always thought the content he posted was pretty high caliber too. Always found it pretty repugnant how he was essentially strongarmed off the internet by the bad taste police, and had his real life fucked with on top of that. People who go to such lengths to exercise a phony authority over what is called appropriate can go fuck themselves.
P.S., I've also been mentioned by name and attacked in SRS/SRD.
2 fuckspezintheass 2016-12-03
Fucking amazing post. I have had to switch accounts a couple times as well due to my username being linked in SRS and those other shitty subreddits. You can't quite recover, people tag you and if they see you again they'll derail the conversation to make sure people know you're a rapist nazi. As I tried to explain to another idiot, I'd rather be called a cuck than a racist any day. Being labelled a racist actually fucking impacts your life.
Now as to the rest of your post, thanks for all the information. We knew there was some overlap but I didn't know it to this extent. It puts things in context.
3 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
Shit's happening today to the prospective new DNC chairman:
1 fuckspezintheass 2016-12-03
"Politically correct speech" is just fascism in disguise
2 Lamont-Cranston 2016-12-03
How do you feel about all the bankers and executives and lobbiests and Raygun/Dubya administration veterans he is appointing? You need to look beyond feelings to actual facts friendo.
How is conspiratard connected to the_donald? Is it the same mods? Who?
Because looking at what's on there on the moment its fairly innocuous with articles about the pizza bs, the loons trump is appointing, and mocking obvious idiots like flat earthers.
Would a sub affiliated with the_donald be critical of trumps appointments and the pizza myth?
1 Mariijuana_Overdose 2016-12-03
For the past 3 years now the front page has been dominated with various "sjw" and minority scare stories. If reddit was so liberal that would not occur. What type of leftist loves to hate social justice so much? it does not make sense.
If clinton had won id understand the urge to act as the victim but trump won and this "reddit just caters to liberals :(" thing is still pushed out there.
The donald was singled out because they repeatedly brigaded any and all discussion critical of trump. The subs you mentioned are a fraction of the size and rarely ever make the front-page.
If you think those are "harassment subs" do you class t_d as one since like you say it's antagonistic (and in a stronger manner)
2 Flytape 2016-12-03
The intent of the subs I mentioned is not to make the front page.
The intent of the subs I mentioned is to stop people from talking about topics they don't like. The hover in our new queue here and serial down vote.
1 Mariijuana_Overdose 2016-12-03
Is it? isnt the intent just to discuss discussions?
proof?
1 _PresidentTrump 2016-12-03
I have been a member of the_Donald since less than 600 subs and I disagree with your analysis. Yes NYPD and JCM were the mods of /conspiratard and stuff but specifically NYPD I felt had his heart in it. I believe NYPD was/is actually autistic and spent all day working on the_donald. Yes they might have made it as a joke but it ended up becoming real. The 'balls' of the subreddit likely came from the balls of the Trump campaign, and I fully believe that Trump's old manager Corey Lewendowski had a hand in /r/the_donald . That ciswhite guy blew the subreddit the fuck up within weeks and as soon as Corey was fired, ciswhite was too. The proactive tactics were unheard of, there has never been a takeover like this, part of the Trumpian ideology that was crafted right at the scene.
1 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
You seem like you know what you're talking about. Thanks for sharing your view.
Dunno what /u/nypd-32 (hehe. ;)) would think about your assessment of him though...
1 _PresidentTrump 2016-12-03
Thanks jcm
1 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
Heh.
Peek at that friendo.
1 totallynewperson2 2016-12-03
Well said...you should have spez's position.
1 wiseprogressivethink 2016-12-03
shitrconservativesays is also a harassment site, but all complaints to the admins fall on deaf ears.
1 Brendancs0 2016-12-03
We all know Trump is going to war with everyone right?It hasn't happened but its a possibility
0 madmaxsin 2016-12-03
Haven't you made /r/conspiracy look bad enough over the years? You have no credibility what so ever. At least you admit the Donald was brigading. Any attempt to justify it is wasted breath. The Donald is not banned so what is with the crying anyways. They added a feature that was needed for a long time.
2 Flytape 2016-12-03
Opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. The true distinction between individuals and mindless autobots is having the self awareness to realize that silencing someone else's unfavorable opinion, through whatever means, can and will be turned around on you at some point.
It's "the means" that are important, in the case I'm outlining in the post the means being used is hivemind bullying tactics. It doesn't matter if it's a real hivemind like the dominant Reddit "California liberal" hivemind, the_donald hivemind or even if it's a fake hivemind like topmindsofreddit where each of a handful of real people use a multitude of sock puppets to push the overton window or consensus crack on a specific topic.
What matters is that it has been perfectly acceptable to Reddit, until it is no longer in alignment with their overarching agenda.
Your opinion about my deeds here in /r/conspiracy are irrelevant, just like my opinion that you're grossly misinformed about me is irrelevant. This post is about why Reddit was torn between action and inaction in the case of the_donald. And the answer is that action sets a precedence, and their previous inaction in the case of SRD, SRS, conspiratard etc etc is the context.
Thanks for your thoughts.
-1 madmaxsin 2016-12-03
What a persecution complex you have. Mr I have been removed as mod and put back multiple times do to your actions. The same guy who caused a mass exodus from conspiracy due to a moronic video blog attempt. You may be able to impress some dumb kids, but us longtimers know.exactly who you are and what you represent. The major problem of reddit, idiot mods who think they speak for their whole subs they mod and spend entirely too much of their life on a website dedicated to entertainment w no pay. Basically, losers with too much free time trying to grab a little power in their pathetic lives.
2 Flytape 2016-12-03
There was never a mass exodus.
Look man, I really don't care about your opinion. If I worried myself every time someone had a harsh opinion about what I've done or what people are talking about on /r/conspiracy then this sub would just like every other watered down safe space on Reddit. For that reason you'll have to forgive me for not giving a shit about you and your dig on a personal level. While you may be a great user here who contributes to quality discussions with impeccable decorum (I don't know I haven't looked into you) you aren't displaying any of that here so I really don't care. I embrace your negative labels as a sign that I'm doing the right thing and I embrace the butthurt you've been leaking. By embracing all the worst things you can do to me, you have no power of me or my duties to this community.
The liberation of the individual from the clutches of the hivemind ensures a diversity of thought, and that diversity is more important than your angsty rebuke of my presence.
Kind regards,
Flytape
-2 madmaxsin 2016-12-03
I really don't care about your self delusions and lies. Just a PSA, so newer users know who you are. You ruined your credibility a long time ago, but some might not remember. This post is just confirmation, that you and some mods you are still buddies with tried to turn conspiracy into the Donald.
3 Flytape 2016-12-03
I actually recused myself of moderating any presidential political posts because of my support for Trump and patronage of the_donald. I announced this to the other mods of conspiracy, so you're exactly wrong about me again. Big shocker there right?
It's obvious that you have impossible standards to satisfy so why not start your own sub where you are 100% in charge and see how it goes? Make it better than conspiracy and then your impossible standards can be actualized instead of thrown around at the mods of conspiracy like monkeys throw poop at each other.
You have no idea how impotent your criticisms of me are.
Why do we have public mod logs? Because I pushed for it.
If my credibility is ruined, that's a personal experience for you and a handful of others. You can look at the comments here in this very post and see that you're in a minority on this subject. And again I must stress that I've learned not to give a shit about people like you, the haters. So while you're impotently flailing around like a child who doesn't understand why his parents have established rules, I'm just going to keep on doing my thing man!
Have a fabulous fucking awesome day!
0 madmaxsin 2016-12-03
It's cool, do you. I shouldn't stand in the way of anyone opposing bipolarbear. You mean well, bipolarbear is a piece of crap.
1 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
He was never removed. The only mods removed AFAIK are donbueno and AssuredlyAThrowAway (who is back again).
Why lie?
1 madmaxsin 2016-12-03
No? https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/31ufrm/mods_why_cant_we_see_who_voted_to_reinstate/
1 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-03
He left and was asked to come back by mods and users.
Lots of ex-mods have left on their own, myself included.
1 seeking101 2016-12-03
needed because you didn't like it?
-1 ruleten 2016-12-03
gotta give Flytape the props he deserves on this one
-3 some_days_its_dark 2016-12-03
A network of irrational hypocrites games reddit, I'm not surprised at all.
*Someone is sensitive.
-3 NowamsaynForillido 2016-12-03
one has to recognize the jew common denominators here. it is much more than a cohenincedence..
-6 Surfdetective 2016-12-03
So many racists in that Donald group.
1 Flytape 2016-12-03
My god, it's full of St----- nope, nvm... It's fucking empty.