The more people who learn the truth the better. I hope this blows up so big they can't sweep it under the rug. I think they are having a hard enough time as it is. Do your part and share the info
This link includes obviously innocent emails and excludes the most damning email about how thinly to cut the only slice of pizza at the party. This is not a good link to send to people.
This is one of them replies, "Does the pizza offer include those of us who can’t make the meeting because
we’re out here editing? ‘Cos if so, count me in." Sure doesn't seem like it's about food.
If these people even THINK to pull that kind of heinous shit or are even accused, maybe it will deter others if they run the risk of having a murderous lunch mob come after them.
It's just how I felt after I read the link. Fired up some emotions, and enraged me. I'm not going to bloody kill anyone.
If any of this shit is true, I hope they all get what's coming to them.
The infographic itself does say that this one has been labeled a "hoax" by the MSM. I'm sure your intentions are good, but you aren't exactly telling me anything new here buddy.
Of course I must be an anti-fake-news pedo troll for pointing it out, but there's a bunch of photos from an artist's website slapped in the middle of that stating that it's artwork shown in Podesta's house without any evidence of that being true at all.
The paintings. Interesting that someone would would pick their art to stick on a wall, but those are still just random photos of random rooms to me, and a far cry from the artwork claimed to be hanging on his walls in the infographic.
Shit's weirder than fiction. I think those of us who believe know that the evidence is tenuous. But covering your tracks is something these people do for a living. If you follow the leads then too many coincidences add up. And I would rather be wrong about this than just let it get swept under the rug. It's too evil to be left alone, if true.
"Just the facts..."...right next to "walnut = person of color ... sauce = orgy" are those facts? You cant prove this. This doesn't help the case for normies at all.
I'll wait until we get some more convincing evidence first. Seriously, correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we only have some weird coded language in some emails, an unverified list of codewords from 4chan of all places, Alefantis having Instagram pictures of children, and the fact that the logo of a completely different pizza place looks vaguely like a pedo symbol. That's not a great start guys. It's honestly kind of embarrassing. Focus on finding better evidence and then maybe more people will get behind your movement.
It's weird how the pictures of artwork that are supposedly in Podesta's house are not photographs of paintings. It's almost as if someone made a Facebook page filled with these pictures a couple of weeks ago claiming that it's the sort of stuff people like podesta would like. And then a news outlet like infowars or one of the other myriad sites involved in this fuckfest intentionally changed that to them being actual pictures that he displays in his house to capitalize on pizzagate and bring in ad revenue. But nah. That smells too much of conspiracy.
You can argue the Besta and Instagram links are opinion, fair enough, but the E-fits thing is fact. The e-fit is depicting a single person half the age of the Podestas. That is 100% debunked.
The witnesses saw 1 person, us it possible it's not the same 1 person? Quote from the article "Police have issued two efits that they believe are descriptions of the same man".
It was referencing the photo of their stuff containing a baby appearing in a magazine with 'edibles' in the title. If you actually look at the evidence objectively, instead of assuming pedophilia from the outset, you do not arrive at pedophilia. The only way to read pedophilia into that is by starting at the assumption, and that the assumption is baseless (from made-up 4chan code words), it is unreasonable to start with that assumption.
There is also the thing where the old Besta logo is not proof of anything, it contains a common graphic element, it is not simply the same as the leaked FBI symbolism document. It is also ridiculous to think that a major pedo ring involving the most powerful people in the world would advertise to the common gutter pedo.
is totally not trying to help the cover up.
Burying your head in the sand by claiming that critical analysis of the evidence is part of a cover-up is an unreasonable position to take. You have to engage critical analysis, you have to throw out the evidence that has been debunked, you cannot cling onto it despite evidence to the contrary.
Who owns Besta Pizza? Does he happen to have a high ranking position in relation to missing/abducted children. If the answer to that last one is yes, then that would just be some fucking extreme coincidence, wouldn't it?
Right right, keep blowing the smoke, no one trust you and it's quite clear your running an agenda. it's people like you who are trying to shut down those who aren't open minded and like having their heads in the sand.
They read the crap you post and 'op just said it's all nothing, welp time to put my head back in the sand'
yeah, except your on a conspiracy sub, and we detest putting the blinders on. Go spread your manure where someone is likely to ingest it.
Obviously YOU are trying to start something. WHERE did I personally attack, when I quoted the person I was responding to?
cutol -3 points 2 hours ago* 'Concert posters: are you fucking stupid?
E-fits: debunked
Podesta artwork: misleading array of images there, none shown to be in his home.
Abramovic spirit cooking: are you fucking stupid?"
You're literally telling him to moderate his anger and outrage in this very real life because of your personal belief in fairy tales that in the end they'll be judged adequately? Fuck that.
I think I'm more being an encouragement to not give up and think their is no hope, because God is our hope and a very present help in times of troubles.
If there were a Good it would not be the "omnibenevolent" God in Christianity. You can't be omnibenevolent and allow children to be abused, tortured, raped, murdered, etc and other evil atrocities.
Satan's greatest lie is the rapture. If we don't fight with all our will and being, we will lose the war and not be worthy of His blessings. Satan's servants will rule the world for eternity.
well, I agree with the 1st sentence, the Almighty has already won the war - His boundless mercy is what lets thing continue, that people repent of their wickedness - He does not wish that ANY should perish
as far as the rapture goes, look to the parable of the wheat and the tares - clearly says the tares (some translations say darnel - this is a mutant segment that is not edible) will be gathered FIRST to be thrown into the fire, only then is the wheat gathered into His storehouse
that verse about "one will be taken, and one will be left" is misunderstood to mean the "one to be taken" is the one to be saved, it's the other way around...
I was wondering to myself today, why would God allow children to be hurt like that for so long and in silence.. it has been going on for decades and child ritual sacrifice for thousands of years.. why now is it being exposed? The internet? Maybe God can only work through people and the more people that know the more they can stop something that powerful and at the top
Simple: agency. You can't give everyone the power to do as they will yet intervene so those people don't reap those consequences of their actions. He could end it, and we all wish He would, but that would be interfering with the consequences of human agency.
Victims should have the power to do as they will then. And I doubt they willingly want those things happening to them. It is not right or fair for innocence to be taken like that. And the consequences should be very harsh and swift
And they will be in the afterlife, after all become aware of the evils perpetrated in this life. I understand what you mean and I don't think this is ideal, but this is the explanation that gets me by. If God is a God of justice, all will be made right in His time. I trust that. I wish you solace in whatever understanding leads you to comfort in this regard.
I think that more than the justice coming from God, the eternal guilt that these people feel in the afterlife when they see the true ramifications of their actions here on earth will be soul-crushing as well.
That's one part of it all that does bother me, because I know God could end it tomorrow. Then I think of grace, and of love. I am not a loving person, but God has shown me much grace. It's his eternal nature.
Perhaps He is giving the players in the pedophillia rings space to walk away and repent.
It can be hard in some senses to reconcile a loving God (which I believe he is) to the fact that innocent children are hurt and worse. But I pray, I pray every night for these children. I've even prayed for Alefantis. ( sorry to say I'm not praying for Brock or the Podesta's.) and I believe God answers prayers.
Why didn't god answer the prayers of these abused, tortured children? I just don't understand your reasoning I suppose. Your God has watched, from his throne, these children sacrificed in far worse ways than we can fathom. Has watched them die with terror in their eyes unable to comprehend why their caregivers are destroying them.
There is no God only Karma. Now the Karma is on our side. What goes around comes around. The Podestas worship Satan but he doesn't exist either. They think he does they are pure evil. Good can only Win with enough power and force to destroy the evil doers.
If there is no God, who or what determines what is good or what is evil? In order for there to be a universal law, there must be a universal law giver.
What universal law? Humans decide what is right and what is wrong. We write the laws and enforce them imperfectly. If there was a universal law giver, it sure as hell does nothing to stop the lawbreakers.
If God ended it tomorrow, it would not end it in the hearts and minds on mankind, and that is where the real battle is being fought, the soul.
The suffrage of the body is of the moment, with eternal souls, there in lies what these monsters may truly be after. Seeing some of the paintings where it depicts.. almost energy, or souls of the abuser, often in red, and the baby, I think yellow/orange, it makes me believe that the entire ritual is meant to siphon by destroying/shaving bits off in gruesome acts.. who knows.
It may not even be that mythical, it could just be sex and taking of whatever DNA material can be used in keep the elite young/healthy/immortal.
Ultimately I think the end game for the 'Elite' is to create an entire universe of their own, where they are the God' and they control every aspect, without what we currently know and exist in.
They go that far because they are wicked.mGod says in Romans that he's given them up to a reprobate mind and they will worship the creature more than they creator.
It is a trial, to see if mankind as a whole is worthy of His blessings. We have two paths before us.
Allow this to continue until all that is good is extinguished from this world. Allow Satan to rule us through his agents. Allow the perversion of his word and will that is Islam to exist.
Or reject evil and lies and fight for goodness and holiness and brotherly love.
A war is coming. It is chronicled in Revelations. All the actors are there. The Synagogue of Satan, the dragon, Illuminati. The Nicolatians, the Beast, Islam. The Mark of the Beast is the brand of Islam, the bismillah.
Satan is the great counterfeiter. Islam takes God's word and twists it into a horrible anti-religion to Christianity. And did you know the Illuminati was founded in 1776? The same year our nation was founded. It is an opposing force to counter freedom and liberty with oppression and servitude.
In the war that is coming, oil plays a part, the world drunk on the wine of Babylon. China is a major player, opposing the USA. The woman with her feet on the moon, a crown of stars, and the wings of an eagle. There will be nukes, and a war in space between satellites. A ground war, and 3 billion dead. It's all laid out plain as day.
But there is hope. God has a plan and is on our side. I really suggest reading it. Someday soon we will all know it by heart. God has faith in us to make the right choice, we must have faith in him to guide us to victory.
"with all certainty" . No you don't. Youre hoping it is the case. You're putting blind faith into the equation here. Certainty no. Mental delusions yes. Keep it scientific.
You have great intentions, but you seek help from fairy tale characters. The Elite have used this fiction to enslave you. Sorry to break it to you but; No God inside this Computer Simulation..
It is not pleasant. It is quite sad. Unfortunately it is exactly correct. Your energy of "worship" is actually absorbed by "The Archons" who have enslaved you..
Hi there. This is not a joke. You actually are unaware this is a Fake Universe? Regardless of how it sounds; You are currently inside a Computer Simulation.
Wait you are the guy who always talks about "the archons" yet when thinking about God you act like an edgy atheist.
If this is a simulation then anything is possible, God exists, way more likely than "archons" who like you wrote me one time "hate humanity" but at the same time give fake blessing like heaven before reincarnation.
Never said they give "fake blessing". People die and then end up in the Astral Holding Area which is a "Fake Heaven". The "Fake Heaven" actually sucks big time. Humans created this Simulation as a playground. They forgot their true nature and eventually believed the Simulation and actual "matter" was real. The Simulation was then hijacked by the "Archons" who are Astral Parasites. The God you pray to does not exist. Time to grow up and understand; This universe is Fake. You live inside a Computer Simulation. Everything is possible in the expanding real universe. But currently you are not in the "Real Universe". Praying to a fictional god sends energy to the controllers of this Simulation; The Archons. Once again; This is a Closed Simulation. It does not expand. There are set rules and massive limitations programmed into the Matrix.
Think with me further, the elites hate my kind. They revel in every sort of debauchery, and think nothing of using me when I was younger, or my children now as cannon fodder in wars that line their pockets. To the elites, I'm just a serf, a bug to crushe if I every get in the way.
But the God of the universe, who created me, He loves me. And that's good enough for me.
Lol you're out of your mind if you think the elites hate Christians. You're one of, if not the largest, group they pander to for votes. Your religion and it's offshoots create some of the most ignorant voters- people that vote based on a representative's faith rather than their policies
Why you hatin' on Muslims? Their God is the same as yours and their stories talk about Jesus too.
I am aware of the large amounts of refugees from Muslim dominant countries being imported by many western countries, but I haven't seen any evidence that the purpose of it is to destroy Christianity.
Our God is not the same. Islam is a perversion of Christianity. I really don't care too much who or what other people worship, but when the religion revolves around killing Christians and raping women and children, I take offense. And there is more than enough proof out there. It's not even hard to find. Go read Sharia law, or watch some of their videos. Or just look up the number of Christians murdered in Muslim countries over the last decade.
But all of those things are alright when your religion does it right? Don't remember those lovely crusades or burnings of witches or murdering all those heretics? Your God, allegedly, wiped out an entire city, Sodom. I'm going to go ahead and assume there were innocent children there. Nice guy, that God.
It's the same God, the Abrahamic God. Learn your religion a little before your argue it.
You think agents of evil weren't present at all those events? The Crusades were misguided in many ways, but that's not because the teaching of Bible encouraged such atrocities. As for Salem, hell, the witch burnings might even have been justified if they were doing the garbage to children these modern day monsters are doing. I don't know if I believe the "offical" narrative anymore. Sodom was probably the same. Evil is real, and sadly you can't always save everyone once they are touched by it. We must take solace in the fact that if innocents were present in Sodom, which according to the tale not one could be found, that they were delivered to God's presence and care.
And no, Islam was created and perverted by Satan. They worship him, not the God of Abraham.
"It's ok when my religion hurts people, but when others' do it, they're evil. I have no proof my religion is correct the and neither do they. We hate each other for small discrepancies in Scripture but we worship the same God and have the same core principles. I really have no idea about religion other than what I've been force fed by my parents and pastors. I lack critical thinking ability."
You know nothing about me, for many years I asked similar questions to the ones you ask. I can only relate to you the answers I've found. Many of them just recently upon realizing the full depths of the evil perpetrated by these elites.
ok i know i came to r/conspiracy because i WANTED to check out some "out there" ideas and stories, and suspend my doubts for a bit while i entertain the theories and that kind of stuff, but I'm literally looking at a flame war over shit about god and religion, where the participants are taking it seriously.
It's enough to make me rather browse the euphoric-neckbeard circlejerk that is r/atheism
Yes. The God of the "Real Universe" is free will and eternal creation. Unfortunately; You are currently trapped inside a "Fake Universe". It is a Computer Simulation..
If we are living in a computer simulation what year do you believe it truly is in the real universe. Are we still on earth? My wife and I were talking about this on a pretty high dose of 2cb the other day and the code behind the simulation seems unfathomable based on humans coding abilities today. In the last hundred years our coding abilities have grown exponentially but we are about to hit the silicon wall and are no where close to creating ai or procedurally generated computer simulated life.
Were we forced into this simulation or did we accept it by choice? Why can't I remember time before the simulation or were we born into it? Am I even a real physical being or do I exist solely in the simulation?
The beings in control the of the Simulation are the Archons. They erase your memory when they force you to reincarnate. That is why you cannot remember anything. You are real and originally from outside the Simulation. We have regressed substantially from when this Sim began. We are currently enslaved by the Archons, and must defeat them to progress once again.
Yes, he harvests all the souls. And tosses the ones he doesn't like. What does he use our souls for? What if it's like in that Twilight Zone episode where the aliens gave us a book to serve man and then at the end it's discovered that it's a cookbook. And all of the teachings of our religions are simply to make us live better lives because it makes the souls more tasty or provide more energy or whatever.
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
Lol God isn't real, it's only one of the oldest tricks in the book of the elite. Open your eyes to the real world. God is the tool they use to divide and conquer and teach weakness as a virtue and make people okay with their shit place in the world as they will be rewarded with an afterlife for their obedience to their overlords.
this statement gets thrown around enough to make it seem like some kind of catch-phrase. I don't know if it's Nietzche or what, but I swear, unless you want to elaborate on what you mean by it, stop fucking saying it.
Because that's a statement badly in need of explaining--was god like a person, an old dude in the sky with a beard, and something came along and killed him, or he got sick and died? Or, maybe you're saying the concept of god, as created by people, has been destroyed, or abandoned, or perverted, or misunderstood or distorted or attacked, or just ran its course and isn't relevant anymore, or whatever, to the extent that you consider IT dead?
Or like god is literally a dead guy, like a ghost, but he's still god, doing god-stuff, only he's just dead?
What THE FUCK does "god is dead" mean? Seriously I insist that you explain, because if you don't offer some kind of interpretation of that phrase, I have to assume you're just trolling and I majorly took the bait, hook line and sinker.
yeah it's not to be taken literally. It was never meant to imply God ever existed and was killed off, rather the shift in views in the western world, the age of enlightenment and so on...we don't need religion or the idea of God any more, so He is dead in that sense
Yeah, but you have to realize something: What is God? God is everything, right? Well, if God is everything, then God is both the yang and the yin - both the light and the darkness.
God does win in the end. God's winning right now as well actually. God's always winning...because all is God. Can't be any other way. Otherwise God's not everything.
I can't agree that God is the dark.
John 1:1-5 KJV
[1] … In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. …
Okay. So then if God is not the dark, and darkness most definitely exists (both literally and metaphorically), then God necessarily is not “everything” (can't be since God is not darkness and darkness definitely exists). If God is not everything, then God cannot be all powerful, therefore (can't be since there is something - i.e. darkness - that, not being God, exists outside of the purview of God's existence and, therefore, ability). If God is not all-powerful, then that means God simply cannot control certain events. This God is ultimately an impotent God.
If God is not all powerful, then it stands to reason that there is something that is stronger and more powerful than God.
And what kind of God is that then? It’s a God “that really means well” but, in the end, is ultimately powerless to help and do anything about the calamities of existence.
That, by definition, cannot be the definition of an “all-powerful” God. You would agree, I’m sure. It is a self-contradiction. God is the very word that we human beings have for “the most powerful” - “the All”, right?
How can a god that is not all-powerful…win in the end? It will presumably get bested by that which is all-powerful…right? (or even that which is merely more powerful than it - without needing to be "all" powerful).
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
So you’re saying that not only is God not all-powerful, but that God is also limited to only being one gender to boot? God is a he? I’m assuming you mean a human “he”, right? So you’re saying God is a man in other words. Right?
How can a human male be in charge of even the observable entire universe, to say nothing of the infinitely more vast multiverse?
And? Physical strength isn't the only kind of mechanism for progress and change. I would offer that mental ability has far more of an advantage. But then again, women have been and still are, being denied an education.
God is male. God's also female, however. Both and neither - all and none.
It's been throughout human history that men have been the main movers and shakers of time.
The history you're aware of is but the tiniest blip in the radar of humanity's true existence on this planet. That other history - the true history of the species here - goes back ages long before any we're allowed to see.
This age has been male-driven. That much seems demonstrably valid.
That has not always been the case, however, and there have been ages far in advance of this one that were nowhere near as male-centric as this one.
Not if you're intelligent enough to know how to fight properly and build strong armaments. Strong enough to pull a trigger and shoot on target? Then you're set.
i get what you're saying, but just because they use "he" all the time, doesn't mean anyone's suggesting that God is human, or even really necessarily male. I mean the male-ness of it is pretty hard to avoid, but for instance, in spanish or french, articles to refer to any noun are gendered. "He," in some sentences in those languages (el, il) could be referring to the table, or the door, or whatever was just being discussed. It's just a way to refer to something.
And especially considering something that's understood to have consciousness, sentience, a persona, or whatever... it's more or less appropriate. It would be even sillier to correct it to "he or she" because then it would follow that god were a specimen of a species which had the two sexes, or that god were literally like a person of some sort.
Just saying "he" still works, at least imo, when one is considering god as just the embodiment of existence, or some other such abstract concept.
just because they use "he" all the time, doesn't mean anyone's suggesting that God is human, or even really necessarily male.
Kind of feels like that to me. I mean if a thing’s a she, then someone would say “she”, right? If they think it’s a he, well then they say “he”.
I mean the male-ness of it is pretty hard to avoid, but for instance, in spanish or french, articles to refer to any noun are gendered.
It has a different connotation in Spanish, however, and one can still successfully de-gendering a word in that language. Source: Spanish is my first language.
"He," in some sentences in those languages (el, il) could be referring to the table, or the door, or whatever was just being discussed. It's just a way to refer to something.
I understand what you’re attempting to show, but - again - it simply doesn’t have the same connotation in Spanish. For example, “the door” in Spanish is “la puerta”. Using “la”, technically makes the door a female. However, no one in Spanish ever thinks of a door as a “her” even while they’re saying “la puerta”. Same with every other inanimate object that has a gender-based pronoun.
In English, even though certain words are naturally/necessarily gendered - like, for example, “God” as opposed to “Goddess” - the pronouns “him” or “her” are used to much more rigidly and specifically categorize the gender of the noun in a manner that wouldn’t necessarily be so rigidly categorized without that pronoun.
While I understand that many people simply say “he” when referring to God out of just general custom, I still felt it pertinent to make mention of what I did in terms of questioning the previous user’s assumption of what gender God is/is not.
And especially considering something that's understood to have consciousness, sentience, a persona, or whatever... it's more or less appropriate.
I refer to God as “It” whenever I’m force syntactically to use a pro-noun. Not difficult really - and much more accurate, I feel.
It would be even sillier to correct it to "he or she" because then it would follow that god were a specimen of a species which had the two sexes, or that god were literally like a person of some sort.
God’s not “he or she”. God’s “he and she” both. Has to be, for both sexes are most definitely contained within God.
Just saying "he" still works, at least imo, when one is considering god as just the embodiment of existence, or some other such abstract concept.
Just my $.02, anyway, not really important.
Na man I think you have valid points and it’s good for you to have brought these counterpoints up here. I just feel that it’s imbalanced to refer to God using only one gender. I personally feel it’s a bit chauvinistic - if even subconsciously so - and necessarily incorrect, since God is, again, both and all sexes/genders.
I don’t think you have bad points though, and I feel I understand what you mean.
if God is everything, then God is both the yang and the yin - both the light and the darkness.
Don't become confused by this, though. Yes, God is both the ying and yang, but the ying-yang only represents balance
Balance and harmony is the correct path towards God.
Imbalance is what forces you away from God. And there are many, many imbalances in the world today. God didn't create them, human beings created those imbalances and we also have to re-balance the scales ourselves.
"Satan" or "the devil" or "evil" or "Sin" is actually just imbalance. These are NEITHER the Ying nor the Yang. They represent imbalance, which inevitably leads to self-destruction. Imbalance is not sustainable. Anything separate from God is not sustainable.
God does win in the end. God's winning right now as well actually. God's always winning...because all is God. Can't be any other way. Otherwise God's not everything.
This is true, but it is also Not true. God will ultimately win, but right now in the world, there are a lot of areas in which God is not winning.
In fact, there are places in the world that are so imbalanced and drowned in sin that God is nowhere to be found there. These people and/or places have literally separated themselves from God.
So try not to go to the opposite side of the spectrum and just say that Everything is God. Some people have truly ripped themselves away from it.
Balance and harmony is the correct path towards God.
I see what you’re saying, and it’s a sentiment expressed by many religions - one that I don’t think is completely without merit - but God, being technically everything, means that any and every path is the God-path. It’s just that some God-paths might be pretty awesome by conventional/human senses, and some really truly suck.
They’re all God, however. Have to be. Otherwise God wouldn’t be God/everything there is/the alpha and the omega. Much of Western civilization, and as a result, much of the people of the West, don’t understand or recognize this fact. The East, however, tends to realize and understand this reality much more clearly. The Buddhist and the Hindu religions particularly realize that God is the creator and the destroyer of existence both.
Once a human being attains transcendence, however, they can rise above both the good and the bad and be in a state of (in Buddhism) nirvana or (in Hinduism) nirvikalpa samadhi.
there are many, many imbalances in the world today. God didn't create them, human beings created those imbalances and we also have to re-balance the scales ourselves.
That is a contradiction in terms, however, because since God is in fact everything, then God cannot be anything but every being and every thing that exist - human and non-human both; from the lowest dreg in existence to the loftiest, most evolved figure.
It’s all part of the same whole.
God will ultimately win, but right now in the world, there are a lot of areas in which God is not winning.
This is an anthropomorphized version of God - which is fine in its own way and more closely related to that version of enlightenment that Hindus call “savikalpa samadhi” where one attains “enlightenment” through the visualization of God as a person or figure who is “balanced and good”, but it is not ultimately the loftiest version of the concept where God is all and everything independent of anthropomorphizing. For that, one necessarily has to travel through the understanding of the yin as well as the yang.
In fact, there are places in the world that are so imbalanced and drowned in sin that God is nowhere to be found there. These people and/or places have literally separated themselves from God.
Na. They haven’t separated themselves from God. They’re just hanging out in the part of the “savikalpa” (anthropomorphized) version of God that’s near its/her/his ass crack is all.
Everything you've stated is pretty basic Hindu/Buddhist philosophy, which I'm well aware of, and I agree with most of the ideas you've offered. I don't think it's the full truth.
but God, being technically everything, means that any and every path is the God-path.
God, in it's highest form, is everything, Yes. The purest and fundamental reality of God is simply pure consciousness. God in the Highest sense has no form or motive. It is simply consciousness, and everything springs out of that constant.
This does not mean that EVERY path is the God-path.
You state yourself:
They’re just hanging out in the part of the “savikalpa” (anthropomorphized) version of God that’s near its/her/his ass crack is all.
So you understand that it is possible to move very far away from the full reality of God, essentially separating yourself from truth. Yet, you do not believe that it is possible to completely fall off or split apart from God. I do believe that is possible.
I do believe that every person is an individualization of God, with Free Will. This is key, because it essentially means you can make choices that are not harmonious with God, that are not balanced with the proper flow of Nature, and that are destructive in and of itself. You can continue to make these choices, and they will be reaped at some point. The consequences of those choices will be very bad for you, but still you can continue to make those choices even after experiencing the Karma. And yes, often times a lifestream will still continue to push themselves farther away even after reaping the Karma. But they always have a choice to turn around and go back.
You are a co-creator with God. You actually participate in the Creation process. And therefore, you have to also balance the scales, not God or gods.
By your philosophy, one can say that any action is appropriate and can continue to be done indefinitely, with no real chance of you ever losing yourself from the "River of Life" that is God. I don't agree with this because of the reality of Free Will. A person can choose to continue and continue to move farther away until they are no longer part of it, God. By this point, they will be in such a sorry state of a self-created "Hell" that they will have every reason to change their ways and turn around back to the Source. The Karma will be so harsh, that they will have every opportunity to start making their way back, even if they are way out in the "savikalpa", as you call it. But eventually, they will destroy themselves if they do not make the change.
As I stated before, imbalance (or anti-God) is self-destructive... It is not sustainable. It will destroy itself, since God will not be present in that self-created "Hell". And to think that there is some "law" in place that subverts and bypasses an individuals Free Will to continually separate itself from God is not something that I agree with.
God will ultimately win, but right now in the world, there are a lot of areas in which God is not winning.
This is an anthropomorphized version of God
Actually, I was just repeating your own terms when you stated "God is always winning". That is an anthropomorphization. I was assuming that we were speaking in terms we both understand, so sorry you got confused when I repeated about God winning. But yes, I realize that in the highest levels, it is not possible to project human emotions and characteristics onto God. It has no form, no drive to create, nothing of that sort. It is simply consciousness.
EDIT Oh and I have no idea what you mean by "I didn't dv you", not sure what "dv" is.
I do believe that every person is an individualization of God, with Free Will.
If you think that an individualization of God is separate from God, then that God cannot be “all there is”, since that would put God on one end, and the individualization that is separate from God on the other.
If one says the individualization is God, however, then that would mean the individualization has no free will since it is a manifestation of God Itself.
So either there is no free will - i.e. everything is a manifestation of God Itself - or there is free will - in which case, God is not “all powerful”…which would make God impotent.
The latter conclusion (an impotent God - which is essentially no God) seems far more logically abhorrent than the former (no free will since God is manifesting Its will as everything there is).
you can make choices that are not harmonious with God, that are not balanced with the proper flow of Nature, and that are destructive in and of itself. You can continue to make these choices, and they will be reaped at some point. The consequences of those choices will be very bad for you, but still you can continue to make those choices even after experiencing the Karma. And yes, often times a lifestream will still continue to push themselves farther away even after reaping the Karma. But they always have a choice to turn around and go back.
And my point is that all this that you just described? It’s still within the purview of God’s existence. It’s still in God. It’s still part of God.
You are a co-creator with God. You actually participate in the Creation process. And therefore, you have to also balance the scales, not God or gods.
There is limited amnesia that God has put into Its creations, and this amnesia causes many of those creations to forget that they are in fact the Godhead and all of Its creations. They think themselves small because they have forgotten about that part within them that remembers they are in fact infinite.
And the “they” we’re talking about is ultimately God. Even while they tumble around lost, seemingly “away” from God, they are only tumbling away from God in seeming. It is only temporary.
Even if that tumbling in darkness lasts a billion millennia…it is still only a temporary amnesia.
The confusion eventually goes away and the individual identity ultimately realizes that it all along was actually a much greater identity (the identity, actually - God), and it just had a dream wherein it was a bunch of different individuals - all having separate, disparate thoughts and feelings, many of them quite destructive. Everything and everyone will eventually wake up and realize that they were all One. All the angels, all the demons. All of them. They were and are all God dreaming and drawing and doodling and telling stories.
By your philosophy, one can say that any action is appropriate and can continue to be done indefinitely, with no real chance of you ever losing yourself from the "River of Life" that is God. I don't agree with this because of the reality of Free Will.
Seems to me we are quark-sized identities playing in a sand lot the size of the universe thinking that because we can’t see the end of the sand lot, that it is “infinite” and we have “infinitely free will”. Even those quarks in massive universe don’t have free will, however. There’s a lot we cannot do.
For example, try to think of an object that is both in and out at the same time; simultaneously convex and concave in the same space; both up and down at the same time; both black and white together…not gray, mind you. Not mixed w/black and white. Literally both black and white.
Seems we can’t quite do it.
Our will and our thoughts, it seems, are confined by the limitations of our sensory abilities and perceptions and our brain and mind’s capacity to grasp concepts. There is a lot we cannot do.
It seems we are very not free.
It’s okay though. Even though we don’t have free will, there’s still a lot we can in fact do. I don’t think we have to think of ourselves as greatly limited by our not having free will.
A person can choose to continue and continue to move farther away until they are no longer part of it, God.
Doesn’t matter how far you move toward the edges of nothingness…you are still in the nothingness…and that nothingness…is still God.
By this point, they will be in such a sorry state of a self-created "Hell" that they will have every reason to change their ways and turn around back to the Source.
Sure. I wouldn’t disagree with that - only I would simply say that it’s all Source. Just different areas and aspects of it.
The Karma will be so harsh, that they will have every opportunity to start making their way back, even if they are way out in the "savikalpa", as you call it.
You are likening savikalpa to being away from God consciousness? That is the very opposite of what it is actually.
But eventually, they will destroy themselves if they do not make the change.
And what is the “they” that gets “destroyed”? That “they” is but a rain drop in that ocean that is still God Itself. Once that tiny raindrop gets “destroyed”, it will simply go right back into Source from where it came. It will simply be a small identity ingested as one into the Great Identity.
As I stated before, imbalance (or anti-God) is self-destructive... It is not sustainable. It will destroy itself, since God will not be present in that self-created "Hell".
Seems to me that God is as much that self-crated hell as It is the self-created heaven.
EDIT Oh and I have no idea what you mean by "I didn't dv you", not sure what "dv" is.
“dv” means “downvote”. Your vote count was at 0 and then -1 when I saw it, and I was just saying that I didn’t vote you down. I don’t think that anything you’re saying is worth a downvote. You have good perspectives - even if they differ from mine. It’s quite alright. All of it really. :)
Ah, wasn't familiar with that one, but thanks for that. I am indifferent to the upvotes and downvotes, as my spiritual views often contradict all of the most established sides of an argument, which means my comments often have the most opposition on every side.
The issue with the down-voters is that they didn't bother to respond. I added to a conversation we are having, and you are engaging me as well, but you didn't dv. Anyway, we know reddit is really an opinion site. It doesn't matter if you are contributing or not, it's easier to down vote than to respond on why you think I'm wrong. Not too concerned about digital points either way. So thanks for actually participating in open forum discussion.
Regarding the conversation we were having....
I believe most of the world religions have truth, some more than others, but none have the full story. I certainly don't claim to know it all, and I just take my views from some of the foundational teachings found in all of them and more modern teachings (1800s - present day).
Judging by your comments, it seems like we would agree on most things. But once anyone starts getting into these deeper, more mystical (some would even say esoteric) discussions, there is bound to be some disagreements and misunderstandings.
But I think I may have identified the crux of our disagreement in this particular topic.
It can kinda be summed up in your first sentences:
If you think that an individualization of God is separate from God, then that God cannot be “all there is”, since that would put God on one end, and the individualization that is separate from God on the other.
If one says the individualization is God, however, then that would mean the individualization has no free will since it is a manifestation of God Itself.
I will simply explain what I believe on this issue:
I think it is possible to be an individualization of God with Free Will, and at the same time that necessarily means that you are part of the one God, which is everything. I think where we disagree is when you say that the individualization must have no free will if it is manifested from God itself.
As I said in my previous posts, the highest level of God has no form. God, at that level, is simply pure Being, or consciousness. Let's call it the "Allness" of God. Out of the Allness comes a self-conscious being which acts as a Creator (do not try to place this "event" on a timeline, in these states there is no beginning nor ending nor linearity). The Creator has form, but it is not a form that can be conceptualized by our human minds / limitations. Now, the Creator does have the potential and the drive to create something, and it must fashion that something out of its own being, or consciousness. Just like when we humans build our toys, machines, and huge cities, those material things must first start as a blueprint in the mind/consciousness of a human co-creator, and then it can become manifested reality.
Now, the Creator can continue indefinitely to create utterly unfathomable and beautiful -- yet completely inanimate and without any Free Will -- objects and manifestations. And I am sure that the Creator (I will add that I believe in many Creators, not one), did do just that. But... and here is the crux... it also created self-aware and self-conscious, self-driven beings to inhabit this world of form. Why would it do this?....
The importance of a self-aware being is that this individualization has the potential to recognize that it is an extension of God. Although a rock has God's consciousness within it, it just does not have the self-awareness to realize it is a part of God and, as a result, make decisions that are against the correct "Flow" of God.... or what Eastern teachings call "The Way," for example. Or what Western religions call the "Will of God"
When a lifestream remembers that they are an individualization, or a Son or Daughter of God, then God can experience this material world through them. That is how God, overall grows and transcends itself as well... through your own Godly experiences.
The other purpose for making self-aware beings was because God doesn't want to have a world of form that is static and dead. God did create natural laws to guide the world of form (example: Karma and Samsara). Essentially, these laws allow the world of form to grow and evolve without any direct input from God. But why would God create this mechanical universe, governed by these laws? That would mean that God could just sit back and watch the universe unfold in exactly the ways that it intended, without even a minor deviation....
Yet, it is my belief that God created a universe that can evolve in ways that are surprising even to God. For this reason, God created those co-creators "In the image of God". We are Creators, just like the Creator that created the world of form we live in. If that Creator can create a world of form as intricate, complex, and unfathomable as the one we are in, then we as Co-creators have the same capability. Yet we are currently at a very low state (due to our own actions and those pesky laws of Karma and Samsara).
I 100% agree with this statement you make here:
And my point is that all this that you just described? It’s still within the purview of God’s existence. It’s still in God. It’s still part of God.
God created planet Earth as a rough outline, and we are here doing the Co-creating from the inside. We have true dominion here, not God. Seems weird to say, but I believe that's the truth. Our planet right now is simply not living up to the full potential that the Creator's mind had originally intended. And yes, that is possible because we are the Co-creators here, we have the power to do that. We can make change happen that is against the Flow of nature/God. Nevertheless, as you are stating, this is still to some degree within the overall plan of God.
This brings me to the final point. The final reason that I believe is the purpose we were created:
Humans beings are not simply here to experience the world and co-create the universe. Humans are created with the potential to grow in consciousness and self-awareness until they reach the pinnacle of self-awareness. Some call this "enlightenment" and other call it "ascension", and there are other terms as well... This process has many stages, which must each be transcended, and the world of form we live in now here on Earth is a schoolroom for our lifestreams working towards this effort. As a result, even the current imperfect conditions serve as a way to help us grow and transcend -- BUT only if that lifestream is willing.
Let me just add this one statement you make here which I want to address:
Everything and everyone will eventually wake up and realize that they were all One. All the angels, all the demons. All of them.
You state this as if it is a guarantee that every single one will eventually come back to God. This subverts and dismisses Free Will once again. I am going to piggy back off of your analogy and use those same terms, so don't get too caught up with this metaphor:
Sure, the "angels", who are closer to God and are following the "God path" will continue to wake up and realize they are all One and that all of it is God. But the "demons"...who are very far away from God and steeped in a dark illusion of un-reality, well...they may not make it back. They have that choice. And don't get me wrong here...the part of them that originated in God, which we all have, will not be lost. That will be re-absorbed into the Allness. But everything that they perpetuated and created throughout their existence that does not flow with God, that will all disappear. Literally vanish. It had no ultimate reality in God in the first place. It only existed in the mind/ karmic ties that the individual was perpetuating constantly. There is no such thing as an eternal Hell where people who have separated from God will spend in eternal torture. The only Hell is the one that you are creating, and that Hell is there to serve as a spring board for you to start making your way back to God. If the lifestream continues to manifest these illusions, which have no ultimate reality since they are self-destructive and unsustainable, then they will altogether "vanish" just like the rest of it. It's no longer part of God, because it simply cannot exist within God. And it is not sustainable in order to exist without the help of God/Creator.
Again, thanks for participating with me in the conversation. I'm sure most of our beliefs align, but allowing the specific details to divide anyone is the mistake that religions have been making for centuries.
Out of the Allness comes a self-conscious being which acts as a Creator
my spiritual views often contradict all of the most established sides of an argument
They don’t seem greatly inflammatory to me - but then again, mine aren’t very conventional by Western standards in the least.
it's easier to down vote than to respond on why you think I'm wrong.
Agreed.
thanks for actually participating in open forum discussion.
Likewise.
I believe most of the world religions have truth, some more than others, but none have the full story.
Fully agreed.
I certainly don't claim to know it all, and I just take my views from some of the foundational teachings found in all of them and more modern teachings (1800s - present day).
Mirrors my own stance as well.
Judging by your comments, it seems like we would agree on most things.
Correct.
But once anyone starts getting into these deeper, more mystical (some would even say esoteric) discussions, there is bound to be some disagreements and misunderstandings.
Certainly. Such is, of course, understood, expected, and is alright.
I think it is possible to be an individualization of God with Free Will, and at the same time that necessarily means that you are part of the one God, which is everything.
I find that to be a contradictory statement because if you are within God, then you are within God’s will. If you are within God’s will, then your will is not individual and separate from God’s.
I think where we disagree is when you say that the individualization must have no free will if it is manifested from God itself.
I wouldn’t disagree with this interpretation on your part.
Out of the Allness comes a self-conscious being which acts as a Creator
This I think is a very important statement. I feel I understand much of what you posted, and I feel I am also discerning a differentiation in our categorizations of God. It seems to me that what you are calling God is the Creator that springs from the Allness.
What I am calling God, on the other hand, is the Allness Itself from which that Creator springs.
Within the context of the Allness from which that Creator springs, I would say yes, you are right in establishing that there can be a Creator on one end, and an individual identity with its own free will separate from the Creator on the other. Both the Creator and the individual exist separately within the stratum of The Allness.
I understand this. What I’m saying, however, is that this particular definition of the Creator is in fact not God Itself because it is not the end all and be all of everything in existence. The Allness is that - and it is The Allness Itself which is in fact God…not the Creator that springs from The Allness. The Creator is only a manifestation of The Allness - like you are and I am. The Creator is just a manifestation that is, let’s say, closer to the core of The Allness than you or I are. The Creator is still a creation, however - a creation of The Allness.
It is The Allness which is God - and everything that comes from The Allness is one with It.
.... Come on we're dealing with enough deluded idiots atm. Don't need you adding fuel to the fire. This whole thing is proof enough there is no God so pull your head out of your unholy ass hole.
As some that has worked as a sex abuse therapist for 20 years, I find some of these comments rather abhorrent, by the religious folk, making excuses as it's all part of God's plan. Fuck that kind of God.
God's plan is not to have children sexually abused. If you remember, he said in the old testament, that if you mistreated a fatherless child, he will hear their cries, and he would make make your children fatherless and make your wife a widow. You would also be punished for making fun of the blind and deaf.
Let's both agree for a second that God is real and seeing what's happening. Do you think this is his plan? Heck no. "he will judge the sexually immoral (grown ups diddling little kids is absolutely disgusting)", even those who are part of "Christianity", like the priests and such (I put quotes around Christianity, because anyone doing something as sick as that doesn't deserve to be called a Christian.).
You're saying a God who allows children to be mistreated is cruel. I showed you how much he hates it, in bible times it would be punishable by death. Then you say punishing that person with death is unfair to the person's child, and that's sick.
I'll say it again. He did not plan for this to happen. He wanted us to live happy lives while serving him. He did give us free will. We humans decided "no we can manage ourselves, we don't need you!" Now that he's given like almost full reins, and when people use their free will to hurt children, and he doesn't intervene when something bad happens, we want to complain. That's kinda like people telling their parents "fuck you mom and dad, I'm out of here, I don't need you and your rules!" and moving out, but expecting the parents to come bailing them out of every bad situation they encounter.
I have known about elite paedophilia and attrocities against children for at least 15 years now. I assure you that it is extremely real.
The well-meaning majority need to remove all faith and confidence in government as it currently exists, so that something else may be built which is truly deserving of that confidence. I am no longer a complete anarchist; I believe in the necessity of a system, but that it must be a system that works, and that is genuinely beneficial.
I have, I have been encountering it indirectly for my whole life. I have known more than enough victims to know it is very widespread and very covered up.
The police cover it up, the doctors cover it up, the teachers act like it is not happening. Everyone keeps a lid on it. The agencies that are supposed to help kids are the same ones who traffic them. If you try to blow the whistle on it you will be discredited, raped or even murdered. I was brutally raped in order to shut me up. My life has been threatened repeatedly. It's real. It is very, very ugly and it is controlled by and is controlling our government in a very ugly feedback loop.
Since I started speaking publicly about my experiences with abuse victims, the FBI changed their definition of rape. Before that they did not even consider sodomy to be a form of rape. Can you believe that? Think about that mindset.
I find it shocking that sodomy would not have be considered rape and I admire you for speaking out for abuse victims and for surviving such a horrible ordeal ideal yourself.
The laws have to be changed -- if it was up to me, it would be life in prison/or worse, for anyone who commits rape or Paedophila. Paedophiles have one of the highest rates of re-offending, imo, they need to be separated from society.
Every now and then, sometimes years apart from each other, I've seen the odd story on the Internet about elite/senior political paedophilia. They haven't shown up often, necessarily; just enough to give the steady impression that there is something bubbling away in the background, but that said something is huge.
It's like there being a massive lava lake beneath an active volcano. At the moment the volcano is starting to erupt, but there have been tremors going through the ground every now and then for years. It wasn't necessarily enough to know the exact size of the lava lake, but from the nature of the tremors and the rumbling, you can tell that it is big, and that when it erupts it's going to like Mount Vesuvius.
Not to speak for /u/petrus4, but I've also known for about a decade, beginning with meeting my first acquantance victimized by it. To the credit of my cynicism, I was skeptical until I met several others, none of which had ever had contact with the others I knew, and the circumstances of my contacts with them were completely unrelated. Yet they all told the exact same stories with sufficient conflicting details to convince a trial jury.
I've never witnessed nor experienced this first-hand, but I continue to meet survivors of this who share certain details of what happened, but never go into the responsible parties (with a few exceptions) for my own safety. The fear / terror in them is real, and the emotional and physical scars they bear are real. Putting the pieces together from their stories, plus my own investigation, I've come to the following conclusions:
There is an organized, global conspiracy actively working to undermine all forms of sovereign national government so that a single hegemonic dictatorship can be established.
A majority of the players involved on the ground do not know about each other, nor do they understand what the ultimate goal is. These are scattered throughout public and private life, in positions of power and influence in Hollywood, various nations' governments, financial institutions, and media outlets.
The people you see (Podesta, Clinton, Soros, etc) are expendable, and as deceived as everyone else. They think their actions buy them favor in the future, but they're being used until they're no longer useful.
The true power behind the conspiracy is never seen, never heard, never caught. They will never leave evidence of their crimes, and they pull the strings of the most powerful people of the world.
No single group, agency, or organization bears responsibility as a whole. Within those groups most people assume are the "bad guys" is a majority of people who are not privy to anything. The CIA, FBI, Council for Foreign Relations, Builderbergs, DNC, RNC... no single public group is made up just the conspirators.
Satanic Ritual Abuse (SRA) is real, and serves to draw a certain spiritual power into the world that supposedly protects the conspiracy from exposure, and imparts temporal power to those involved. It also acts as a method of indoctrinating future generations to carry on the plan.
This vile darkness in the halls of power started in the Vatican, and has been pushed out into the world like a cancer, being overseen and fed for over a thousand years.
The backbone of control is blackmail and manipulation, using children to force the puppet masters' puppets into compromising positions, threatening exposure if there's lack of compliance, relying on the "I'm in too deep to stop now" mentality.
And my most unappealing conclusion, but one which should prevent no one from continuing to try, is that this is far too powerful to stop now. At this point, the powers that be have too much influence and control to ever get caught, and possibly too much to care if they do.
draw a certain spiritual power into the world that supposedly protects the conspiracy from exposure
I had never thought of that before but it's really interesting. I definitely believe in occult magick and that description would add a lot of credence to what's happening... thanks for sharing all of this.
You should review the account of Jay Parker who was raised in a Satanic abuse family. It is hard to listen to some of the details of his abuse but this particular interview also addresses some of the questions people tend to have in the vein of "well, HOW do they cover up the abuse?" He talks about living in communities as a child where the majority of families (thus the children being abused) are in the "old religion" as Jay's "mother" referred to it. He mentioned as many as 80% percent of the kids at the local elementary school were trapped in the cult. His "mother", Josette Parker, was a schoolteacher. He also explains instances where criminal investigations were smothered at the local Police level. He explains that his "family" attended Christian church services as a cover story every Sunday before heading directly to the satanic church where he was abused.
I don't know where else to ask. Sorry if I seem lazy, English isn't my first language and I can't find anything on the news.
I know what pizzagate is, but, what about the gunman and false flags and the street security camera everyone has been talking about in these past hours?
A lot will be said for the coming weeks until another more sensational story comes along and distracts us again or just gets us emotionally flustered. Quite interesting in seeing how all of this is playing out both societal and system wise. Either way we are doomed due to our intellectual negligence.... have a good day.
Thanks for answering, but I think my English is actually really bad :(
I was trying to say I don't know or understand anything about the gunman/street camera/false flags that happened in these hours, could someone please explain that to me?
When you get into politics, you have all these great ideas right? You wanna change the world right? Then you get high enough to attract the attention of TPTB. At this point, they will invite you to a party to "discuss your political lines". When you get there, they drug you without you noticing, then they put drugged out naked little girls on your lap and take pictures. At this point you are their puppet. You will play ball and will never spill the bean. People say: If there really was a conspiracy people would have spoken out. Well, I just explain why most won't, and those that did, you didn't believe them and told them to go put on their aluminum hat. Weird times indeed.
I think there is a true source of all religion in our world. There is some real essence of spirituality that preaches love, kindness, and above all the belief that EVERYTHING is connected, be that humans, nature, earth, and the Cosmos.
Many wise people have existed on this earth who have spread this benevolent message.
Enter religion, which perverts this true spirituality as a tool of control, using it as a justification for political dominance.
Spirituality is an individual quest, don't believe anyone that you need religion to find enlightenment/peace. That's the true lie that's been told for the past 4 thousand years when the malevolent monotheistic religions have existed.
They are fuckin with our heads. The average Joe citizen scoffs at the idea of crisis actors and false flags. As long as the masses continue to worry only about their Ipads and lattes then they still have control. But people are waking up at an alarming speed
One of the things that keeps me from believing this is real is that fact that the so called "code words" are based off of a post on 4chan.
Can anybody show me something where these 'codewords' are established codewords? When looking them up online I can't find any reference other than pizzagate
i don't know where those code translations came from, but at the same time, can anyone offer an example of how the sentence, sent to John Podesta by someone called Susan:
"The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related."
might make any amount of sense, at all, in any imaginable conversation? Just try yourself, see if you can fit that into a fake dialogue where it isn't completely insane and bizarre. I can't. then it goes on to say:
"Is it yorus [sic]? They can send it if you want. I know you’re busy, so feel free not to respond if it’s not yours or you don’t want it."
So, if you take the words at face value, this means:
Some realtor (whoever that is) found a literal handerchief, and lets Susan know. She takes a look at it, and it seems to have an image of a map printed on it, at least she thinks so (remember, she doesn't say she's sure, she says "I think it has a map"). So, maybe it's a vague image, or maybe she sometimes has trouble remembering what exactly a map is... but she thinks the thing on the handkerchief probably is one.
And also, the map is "pizza-related." It's a map with directions to pizza places. Or its a map of the country where pizza was invented.... or, uh.... seriously I can't think of a fucking thing that this could legitimately mean. And i'm trying here, to give them the benefit of the doubt and think of a normal meaning for a pizza-related map. It sounds like the kind of shit Charlie from Always Sunny would write in his dream book.
Oh, and ALSO, this handkerchief appears to have enough value or significance that it would warrant an email offering to return it to its rightful owner. A very expensive-looking, beautiful, silk pocket square, maybe? ok.... with a pizza-map on it. Right.
That's precisely the type of item that, if I found it in my home, I would have a good idea of which one of my guests it belonged to, because who CAN'T determine who the owner of a HANDKERCHIEF was? She probably knew that silk pizza-maps were totally John's style, and he'd be really upset if he lost it. So she'd better just shoot him an email offering to FedEx it right away, if he wants it back.
OR,
It's a secret fucking code and it's WEIRD.
I will admit, that almost every other one of those wikileak emails' text had some sort of conceivable context that would explain it in an innocent way. But this one?
Please, be my guest and take a crack at it. I would love to be proved wrong.
first, "handkerchief" is one of those words that doesn't really sound like any other words. hard to mistake.
Second, in other emails, podesta and his recipient were pretty quick to correct a simple typo (he wrote "i'm passed . . . " and they replied "you mean pissed?" then he said "yes sorry, i meant pissed"). Here, he replies "It's mine, but it's nothing to worry about." Doesn't inquire about anything weird being told or asked. Doesn't clarify any meanings.
Third, the following sentence has a typo:
Is it yorus?
I highly doubt any text-to-speech fuckup outputted that. Furthermore, there are punctuation errors, and the use of parentheses (one such error being the omission of a closing parenthesis). Doubtful that it was anything other than manually typed.
All the words and phrasing are pretty straightforward. The response from Podesta is matter-of-fact, and directly addresses the question.
Your suggestion almost had me at first, and for a second I felt optimistic. Unfortunately, though, IMO it remains unexplained.
[edit]
also, one weird email isn't enough, but there are a couple. The others just have the capacity to allow for explanatory contexts. This weird email to me appears to be the one massive fuckup that went overlooked, where people got sloppy, or just absent-minded, and allowed a very questionable statement and, even worse perhaps, a response which treats it as an ordinary question, to exist in black and white.
This is nothing new man. The difference is now there's a bit more evidence for the nay-sayers to finally wake up and realize this world isn't all rainbows and sunshine.
Just listen to what the musicians are saying.. they're all warning of something. Something is going to happen with fire. Any theories on that?
So? And it doesn't just 'face a pole'..you can still see traffic activity from the camera.
It's hard to make assumptions about this besides it being coincidental. Not to mention, there are photos of the gunman in news stories. Why does everything have to be on video in order for it to be 'true'
Why, on. Saturday, when the public words departments are never seen, was one camera that could have shown what happened changed to only show part of a pole?
It's evidence that someone who doesn't usually work on a Saturday
Your making assumptions with no proof. Do you know the person that moved the camera personally? Do you know any employees from DDOT? Do you know anyone in HR or managers who do scheduling?
made sure the camera was moved and the view was blocked.
The view is not blocked. It may no longer point at the restaurant (I don't know if it ever did), but the camera's view of traffic is not blocked. No matter how many times you make that claim it won't become a fact.
The facts are that the camera, which acted as a traffic camera normally would, was moved on a Saturday. The fact is that it now faces a pole and does not give a clear view any longer.
how can we proof when it just happened? if you don't believe, look up sandy hook hoax. no one died. the whole thing was crisis actors, and the kids that supposedly died were seen alive a year later. everything was psyop by the cia
Found the dudes facebook, I think he is a very concerned dad with two daughters, went to Haiti to help the people there. Thinking maybe he took a gun because he wasn't sure what they would do. He has a long criminal history.
Time for you to wake up and find out who these savages worship. It is The "Archons". They judge you even though they are pure evil. They erase your memories and force you to Reincarnate..
Hubbard actually lifted most of the concepts for Scientology from Gnostic teachings but then put an alien sci-fi twist on them. So you actually weren't too far off.
Except it's really not. All of the alleged evidence proving this is a false-flag is either fabricated (moved traffic camera that then overnight morphed into "turned off" traffic camera - based on a single Voat post with no mention of a timeframe or any proof that the camera was actually moved), misleading (Washingtonian posting the article early - common Google bug), or doesn't actually prove anything (guy was a production assistant on three no-budget films, ergo he can't do anything bad unless hes being paid to be a crisis actor). It's a laughable attempt by Pizzagators of false-flagging a false-flag to protect the integrity of their movement and deny the very real fact that encouraging people to "ask questions" about a global pedophile ring of untouchable, unprosecutable people encourages lone nuts to try and bring justice into their own hands.
It's an undeniable fact that telling a bunch of people that they are battling untouchable monsters is going to make at least one of them act out. We saw it with Sandy Hook when people with guns started showing up at the school, school committee meetings and outside victims' homes. We saw it with the Boston bombings. We saw it with the Salt Lake City daycare when actual /r/conspiracy users started trespassing on the property of a daycare in a low-income neighborhood and taking pictures into the windows of the place because a single person said the building looks suspicious and suddenly out of nowhere a whole elaborate drug smuggling conspiracy was invented.
Edited:
downvoted? Clearly the false-flagging false-flaggers are onto me! /s
Problem is most people lack the prerequisite Veda (knowledge) that would allow them to comprehend the real purpose of what these Luciferians/Satanists are trying to accomplish with ritual perversion and murder.
They are performing ritual sacrifices to asuras (demonic entities) in order to gain material benefits and power.
Unless one understands the original religion, their activities make no sense.
Only that they are not 'proper' Satanists. they are 'biblical Satanists' and just aping medieval Satanists who did those rituals to mock christianity. They are spoiled morons.
Any 'proper' Satanist wouldn't be seen dead performing those ridiculous rituals.
But, your point is still valid, as these people may very well do these things for gain. And if they do [we know they are] then it isn't too far to also believe they need children for this purpose.
Depends on your definition of both Satan and "proper" Satanists.
If you're talking about the Antone LeVay created "Satanism", that is just secular humanism that uses the archetype of Satan as an inspiration. Nothing truly Satanic about it. These type of Satanists would not participate in occult rituals, as they do not believe in Satan as an entity.
Satanic deification (worshiping Satan as a god..."devil worship" if you will) however, is a different matter altogether. These type of people believe in the actual entity/power of Satan and worship him as Christians do God/Jesus. Occult rituals are common, if not outright required, for this type of religion.
I would say it's easiest to assume that what most people label "Satanic" is actually worship of another, older evil deity, such as Moloch (the bull god...not the owl Minerva). Aleister Crowley, for example, was labeled as Satanic, but was not, in fact a Satanist. To deny that he meddled with some dark forces in his day, however, is lunacy. But to the average person, hearing that something is "Satanic" is a much easier filter to go through than having to explain who and what "Set" is.
So you we are in total agreement. I said the same thing you have just described about Alister Crowley. All I said is that these idiot people probably meddle with 'something' and that calling it Satanic is easier to feed to the masses.
However I fear that the 'masses' are usually pretty uninformed and some religious folk will see it as literal. Which means that some Satanism, which is less violent and stupid will be put into the same drawer. Just like people hear the word 'drugs' and put dope and Heroin into one. This brings with it a lot of hassle for those liking one and not the other.
Conspiracy theories have been floating around since...forever. I have never seen such a doubling down on anything like this. 9/11 Truthers have been around for years, Sandy Hook had a conspiracy, but only fake news touches the Clinton camp!! I can guarantee you if this was involving Donald Trump, msm would be all over it. You know, like those rape allegations...which should rightfully have been pursued if there was any reason to be suspect.
There have been so many elites involved with this sort of stuff. The Franklin coverup incident, Jimmy Savile, Epstein, Hastert (both of which had regular contact with the Podestas), Freud, Weiner in contact with underage girls, Norway elites just had a huge pedo bust, there was a call-boy investigation in the 80s. Is it really SO difficult to imagine this is possible? Pair that with:
*Using existent code words for child porn in otherwise nonsensical emails. Who wants to fly in $65,000 worth of pizza/dogs to the Whitehouse? Would I do better playing dominoes on cheese or pasta?
*At the VERY least, incredibly distasteful social media postings. Who in their right mind uses #hotard next to a baby?? With picture comments including "Would like a Haitian special, extra cheese." It's not funny, and talk about shitty marketing for a supposedly family friendly business. This is the "49th most powerful man in DC" and a pizza shop owner who has been to the Whtehouse 5 times. Oh, and has a profile picture of Antinous.
*Paintings of scantily-clad teenagers in Tony Podesta's home and stuffed animals in his bedroom when he has no children. And a continued relationship with Dennis Hastert.
*Hillary Clinton taking personal interest in Laura Silsby for child trafficking in Haiti. Oh, and her legal advisor Jorge Puello is under investigation for sex trafficking.
*Monica Peterson being killed while investigating the Clintons and human trafficking in Haiti.
All of these bits of info, and more, on their own may be of no consequence, but together, I really don't think it's so crazy to investigate further.
well. i have this idea that im kinda scared of. what if.. they in fact created this scandal on purpose, but rather for blackmailing some important people into WW3?
Why would they do this? For control and power of course. That is why they faked the whole fucking thing and people STILL can't see this? WTF? You have been played like a fiddle.
What has that got to do with anything? The ancient Rome doesn't exist any longer, you are not even funny and just because something may have happened a thousand years ago doesn't mean it is ok to do nowadays.
Completely illogical point to make.
I tried and came up that you mean at some point in time [about 1000 years ago] a lot of people MAY have accepted paedophilia and therefore you made a joke to check out 'little caesars' which I assume [being European] is some restaurant.
Basically you are saying that we take any detail and spin it out of proportion.
I get it, but it still makes no sense, neither as a joke nor a put down of everybody who has actually researched pzz-gate. I am all for witty comments but this one missed badly because it's incomparable in any way, shape or form.
Edit: as in they could be propagating these fake stories to give us something to chase, anything can be a false flag. Or they perhaps want to use pizzagate to discredit the conspiracy community as a whole.
Although I go on /r/the_donald and seen a few posts about it I never bought into it. And of course I've never went to /r/pizzagate when it was around. I've also never been to this sub, until today. This Streisand effect is amazing.
Edit: I still don't exactly believe in it, but with the threat of reddit trying to curtail 'false news' it at least got me interested in it.
Now that you had one of your own to investigate the restaurant can you guys drop it. Go back to cute things like the earth is flat or the moon landings were fake.
What makes you think this is "one of our own"? That's the dismissive attitude that potentially protects perpetrators while discrediting an entire group of people trying to find the truth. Pedophile rings at high levels of government happen all over the world, and have throughout history. Pretending that it is too outrageous to happen here is actually outrageous. Don't shame the people who are HARMLESSLY investigating this because some moron runs into a high profile location with a gun (which, in and of itself is weird because who does that in broad daylight ans gets arrested before doing any damage? If the guy were serious he would burn the place down, hunt alefantis down in the night and shoot him in the dick, or actually kill people before getting arrested... he got nothing done in the 3-5 minutes and the alleged customers capture nothing on video)
That's the dismissive attitude that potentially protects perpetrators while discrediting an entire group of people trying to find the truth.
There is no evidence of wrongdoing by anyone targeted. There are no perpetrators.
There is nothing harmless about conducting witchhunt with zero evidence of wrongdoing, zero evidence of harm. Alefantis et al. are having their lives fucked up with zero evidence to back it up. Pizzagate is very harmful to innocent people, not at all harmful to elite pedophiles and their ringmasters, who must be laughing at this shit. Pizzagate is amateur hour fantasy idiocy.
You clearly didn't read my comment thoroughly. The majority of people investigating are not causing harm. Period. Just cause some morons take matters into their own hands does not mean that people who are researching harmlessly are in any way responsible. Notice i said potential perpetrators. For you to claim that there definitely are no perpetrators is just as ignorant if one were to claim that there definitely are. We are in the investigative phase... And the fact that there is only circumstantial evidence and isn't hard evidence at the moment does not mean that hard evidence may not be out there, and it absolutely does not mean that people should refrain from digging up clues IN A SAFE WAY. You are assuming these people are innocent, and you are assuming that people are ruining lives for no reasin. In fact, you're assuming more shit than most of the people who are ACTUALLY just trying to find evidence. Way to defend someone accused of being dismissive by being more dismissive...
Every person who calls Podesta or Alefantis a pedophile is causing harm. To label someone a pedophile with zero evidence of wrongdoing is irresponsible and reckless. Pizzagate peeps know for a fact that there is zero evidence of wrongdoing, so to label people pedophiles based on supposition alone is more than just reckless, it is truly a dick move.
People who intentionally spread lies about pedophilia are monsters, they are assholes.
You are assuming these people are innocent, and you are assuming that people are ruining lives for no reason.
Innocent until proven guilty. None of them has been proven guilty, none of them has been shown to have done anything wrong, none of them has been shown to have ever harmed a child.
For you to claim that there definitely are no perpetrators is just as ignorant if one were to claim that there definitely are. We are in the investigative phase
There is no proof of a crime, how can there be perpetrators?
Investigative phase? If you start with the assumption that secret code words are being used, you should investigate where those code words came from, and investigate the validity of them. Since the whole investigate is based on those 4chan code words, that is where the investigate should start. Where did those code words come from? Pulled out the air? Are those code words valid? Why? How?
Everything rests on those code words being taken at face value, despite that they seem to have no validity whatsoever.
Are you going to ignore every point i make? NOT EVERYONE IS LABELING THEM PEDOPHILES AND "INTENTIONALLY SPREADING LIES". Some people are genuinely trying to connect the dots to what is inarguably a compilation of really weird and slightly alarming facts.
I just said that not everyone is assuming these things about alefantis and podesta and whomever, sure a few are, but you are pretending everyone does. You, yourself, are also assuming that these people are innocent and people are deliberately spreading disinformation and lies about them. I'm not saying we shouldn't assume their innocence, what I'm saying is that you're being completely hypocritical and fallacious in your claims. It's a pretty terrible thing for people to be labeled pedophiles or rapists when they aren't, i completely agree. The point I'm making is that being completely dismissive is oftentimes more harmful to people than probing into potential crimes.
Most of the people looking into it are not trying to ruin anyone's lives, they are trying to make sure that lives are not being ruined in the future by turning a blind eye to potential criminal activities, the likes of which take place all throughout history and all over the world. Painting all the investigators as scumbags and crazies is as ignorant as claiming that alefantis is a pedo. Not as damaging, but just as ignorant. How do you not see that point? I'm agreeing with your point that these few morons are destructive and doing more harm than good. Repeating that point doesn't make the rest of your arguments any more sound.
It is absolutely real. When there isn't proof enough to exonerate or condemn (beyond circumstantial stuff), yet the media has already gone into debunk mode, saying pizza gate is definitively false, you know something is up. Real journalism would say that the allegations are just that, alleged, but they won't even go there. No, to MSM, the case is somehow already magically closed, because big brother says so. MSM response totally confirms it to me, the bias is so fucking palpable.
Ying Yang , its a fundamental principle of all life, trust. Consider, a system where everything is illegal, how if everyone wants to do a thing, can you prevent a thing happening. Answer ; you let a fraction do the thing and deny it. It's the only way. Like the puzzle of a guy in a boat with the wolf and the sheep. Except, whoever, ends up in the boat, with the little lambs, turns into a wolf, its human nature, nothing else. The alternative could be much worse.
Long time lurker here. Feeling brave today to add something that's been bugging me. During Clinton's campaign, the moment MSM learned they lost control of being the primary source of information is when they began to push Russian propaganda. Clinton even mentioned it during a debate. It felt like they were grabbing on to a long lost fear tactic that once worked to persuade the masses. Election night was bizarre. Especially watching these reporters back peddle on this narrative they pushed so hard by claiming there were closet trump supporters and "uneducated white males" who were to blame for them being completely wrong. Shortly after, this bullshit saga of "fake news" is being paraded around to discredit anything that doesn't fit some sort of an agenda.
I'm still on the fence with pizza gate, and I firmly believe the "fake news" agenda isn't a result of the pizza conspiracy. Fake news narrative is a result of losing control of information. An informed society is a society that cannot be controlled. Why do the elites need to control over 300 million humans in America? Europe? Middle East? Why? Then we have pizza gate. I see both sides, some of the excitement does leave a bad taste for critical thinking. And the rebuttal is also distasteful, yet there are valid questions on both sides that should be examined. I won't discredit pizza gate entirely because there have been pedophilia with priests, Boy Scouts, and Hollywood inside America. So it's not completely far fetched that our tiny little bag of flesh politicians could behave so disgustingly.
Whether pizza gate is true or not, I have a very strong suspicion it is nothing compared to what is really being kept in the dark. I think the situation here upon earth is in much more danger than pen whipping psychopaths peddling around with children. Not saying I would turn a blind eye to it, but I think there's an ulterior agenda that will make pizza gate look like a bounced check.
When did WikiLeaks leak the Podesta emails? Was it after or before October 16th? If it was after, could it be that the leaked emails were false and all the crap since then was a setup for the conspiracy community?
could it be that the leaked emails were false and all the crap since then was a setup for the conspiracy community?
Yes, it is a possibility. Honestly I don't really believe that it is possible to 'outsmart' a ruling elite that have been successfully ruling for hundreds and hundreds of years if you really dig into it. I mean they really have it down pat by this point. I also believe (however debbie downer it is) that if the ruling elite do have some diabolical plan for the country, then they are going to be able to pull it off.
Which is why I think it is important to just do the right thing since that may be all we have in the end. And in my personal opinion, the right thing is to look into something if it seems suspicious and there is the possibility of child victims. This doesn't mean violence, defamation, etc but just look into it and share one's findings. Be able to feel right with yourself when all is said and done.
I mean, if the ruling elite want to roll out more censorship laws, then they are probably going to get more censorship laws. If they set a 'trap' and it doesn't work, that's not going to stop them. I mean if you really think about it and how powerful these people are, whether or not we research something has almost no bearing whatsoever on their own intended outcome.
not seeing what would make you think that, mostly because you dont explain it.
i see all of this pizzagate shit as a great distraction, while all you guys chase a pizza place the important shit is happening somewhere else.
no evidence i have seen on pizzagate has been more than speculation, yet some people seem to have found their gospel...
based on an unsourced /pol/ post and using codewords to decode leaked emails(hint: if you take words as meaning something else, you can make a lot of shit work).
its all stretches, even if this shooter is an actor, its a huge stretch to say that its a false flag because of it.
i cant change your beliefs, but ill keep expressing my belief that you are all victims of a psyop.
Never said they give "fake blessing". People die and then end up in the Astral Holding Area which is a "Fake Heaven". The "Fake Heaven" actually sucks big time. Humans created this Simulation as a playground. They forgot their true nature and eventually believed the Simulation and actual "matter" was real. The Simulation was then hijacked by the "Archons" who are Astral Parasites. The God you pray to does not exist. Time to grow up and understand; This universe is Fake. You live inside a Computer Simulation. Everything is possible in the expanding real universe. But currently you are not in the "Real Universe". Praying to a fictional god sends energy to the controllers of this Simulation; The Archons. Once again; This is a Closed Simulation. It does not expand. There are set rules and massive limitations programmed into the Matrix.
This is one of them replies, "Does the pizza offer include those of us who can’t make the meeting because
we’re out here editing? ‘Cos if so, count me in." Sure doesn't seem like it's about food.
302 comments
154 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
The more people who learn the truth the better. I hope this blows up so big they can't sweep it under the rug. I think they are having a hard enough time as it is. Do your part and share the info
12 trustworthy_expert 2016-12-05
The link is blurry when I click it...
2 BThriillzz 2016-12-05
Really would love a better link here -.-
11 Ataaberrk 2016-12-05
That link is amazing. Thank you
5 4Gracchus 2016-12-05
Come to voat. That's where it's posted.
4 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
Keep it circulating.
9 RerollFFS 2016-12-05
This link includes obviously innocent emails and excludes the most damning email about how thinly to cut the only slice of pizza at the party. This is not a good link to send to people.
1 roundtree 2016-12-05
Link to thinly cutting the slice?
4 RerollFFS 2016-12-05
Are we allowed to link to wikileaks? I don't want to break any rules. You can google search it though, but if I'm allowed to link I will link.
5 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-05
Of course you can link to original sources.
1 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
So do your part and share that link, maybe?
3 RerollFFS 2016-12-05
Link
2 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
Thank you. If you see an opportunity to help someone out in uncovering this shit, don't just stand by. Jump in. They can't shut us all up.
1 no1113 2016-12-05
What the fuck kind of completely cryptic, utterly non-sequitired message is that?
These motherfuckers are not talking about pizza.
2 RerollFFS 2016-12-05
That's a line from Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
1 no1113 2016-12-05
Not saying that didn't happen, but even though I didn't read the book, I at least saw the movie. I don't remember that part. Where did it happen?
1 gnovos 2016-12-05
I thought that was just somebody complaining about how small their food budget was, no?
1 RerollFFS 2016-12-05
This is one of them replies, "Does the pizza offer include those of us who can’t make the meeting because we’re out here editing? ‘Cos if so, count me in." Sure doesn't seem like it's about food.
-2 sokpuppet1 2016-12-05
I think most people view that email as an obvious joke.
3 RPmatrix 2016-12-05
"most people"= fallacy called 'argumentum ad populum'
"obvious"? to whom? "most people" huh?
Speak for Yourself shill
lol your usernym checks out, sock puppet
3 Toonath 2016-12-05
If it's a joke i definitely don't get it...you mean the way the use codes and symbols blatantly in front of people and then laugh at us?
I guess if that's the case, I get it, but I don't think it's funny.
2 RerollFFS 2016-12-05
A joke about what? What's the joke? What's indicating that it's a joke?
6 [deleted] 2016-12-05
[removed]
4 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-05
Jesus... Lynch mobs, dude.
0 Rrrrbbbb 2016-12-05
It's how we do shit around here.
If these people even THINK to pull that kind of heinous shit or are even accused, maybe it will deter others if they run the risk of having a murderous lunch mob come after them.
2 RPmatrix 2016-12-05
why do you think this 'mentality' happens?
4 Rrrrbbbb 2016-12-05
Probably because people hate pedophiles?.
4 [deleted] 2016-12-05
[deleted]
0 Rrrrbbbb 2016-12-05
Sounds like you've got something to hide..
3 Starlitcoder2 2016-12-05
If you want to be part of a lynch mob I say you go play "Town of Salem".
1 SilverbackRibs 2016-12-05
I feel like saying such things should be avoided. Especially in light of the recent event and possible censorship.
1 Rrrrbbbb 2016-12-05
It's just how I felt after I read the link. Fired up some emotions, and enraged me. I'm not going to bloody kill anyone. If any of this shit is true, I hope they all get what's coming to them.
5 [deleted] 2016-12-05
[deleted]
4 venCiere 2016-12-05
Not first time children's testimony dismissed as fabricated. Signs of abuse were found on the children.
2 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
The infographic itself does say that this one has been labeled a "hoax" by the MSM. I'm sure your intentions are good, but you aren't exactly telling me anything new here buddy.
3 nekonomicon7 2016-12-05
Of course I must be an anti-fake-news pedo troll for pointing it out, but there's a bunch of photos from an artist's website slapped in the middle of that stating that it's artwork shown in Podesta's house without any evidence of that being true at all.
3 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
You mean this artwork (which is actually in Tony Podesta's house), or do you mean the paintings (1), (2) by Biljana Djurdjevic?
1 nekonomicon7 2016-12-05
The paintings. Interesting that someone would would pick their art to stick on a wall, but those are still just random photos of random rooms to me, and a far cry from the artwork claimed to be hanging on his walls in the infographic.
Edit: Disregards I suck cocks etc. Source on the first picture: http://washingtonlife.com/2015/06/05/inside-homes-private-viewing/ "Inside power lobbyist, philanthropist and contemporary art collector Tony Podesta’s Kalorama home. "
1 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
Shit's weirder than fiction. I think those of us who believe know that the evidence is tenuous. But covering your tracks is something these people do for a living. If you follow the leads then too many coincidences add up. And I would rather be wrong about this than just let it get swept under the rug. It's too evil to be left alone, if true.
3 hipower805 2016-12-05
This is beyond retarded
2 Yankeehero 2016-12-05
Incredible link
3 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
Share it around.
1 Ringo007 2016-12-05
Requested info not found.
1 vazzywartooth 2016-12-05
It's gone... Does anyone have a mirror?
1 illumininja 2016-12-05
Link is down. Anyone archive?
1 tykeryerson 2016-12-05
"Just the facts..."...right next to "walnut = person of color ... sauce = orgy" are those facts? You cant prove this. This doesn't help the case for normies at all.
1 SquareShapeCloud 2016-12-05
I'll wait until we get some more convincing evidence first. Seriously, correct me if I'm wrong, but so far we only have some weird coded language in some emails, an unverified list of codewords from 4chan of all places, Alefantis having Instagram pictures of children, and the fact that the logo of a completely different pizza place looks vaguely like a pedo symbol. That's not a great start guys. It's honestly kind of embarrassing. Focus on finding better evidence and then maybe more people will get behind your movement.
1 KaineScienceman 2016-12-05
It's weird how the pictures of artwork that are supposedly in Podesta's house are not photographs of paintings. It's almost as if someone made a Facebook page filled with these pictures a couple of weeks ago claiming that it's the sort of stuff people like podesta would like. And then a news outlet like infowars or one of the other myriad sites involved in this fuckfest intentionally changed that to them being actual pictures that he displays in his house to capitalize on pizzagate and bring in ad revenue. But nah. That smells too much of conspiracy.
1 KaineScienceman 2016-12-05
Oh and the police sketches? Those are of the same person
1 sawftacos 2016-12-05
That is seriously fucked up.
-6 cutol 2016-12-05
But most of that image is bullshit. A terrible source of info.
You cannot start with the completely arbitrary 4chan code, if you do you're starting at a disadvantage, you're starting in a world of fantasy.
Besta logo: debunked
Instagram photos: debunked
Concert posters: are you fucking stupid?
E-fits: debunked
Podesta artwork: misleading array of images there, none shown to be in his home.
Abramovic spirit cooking: are you fucking stupid?
That image is spreading lies and misinformation.
8 roundtree 2016-12-05
[citation needed]
-1 cutol 2016-12-05
Updated with links. :)
5 richtert 2016-12-05
Seems more like opinions than facts... just saying. MSM News is like that too, more opinion based than factual.
1 cutol 2016-12-05
You can argue the Besta and Instagram links are opinion, fair enough, but the E-fits thing is fact. The e-fit is depicting a single person half the age of the Podestas. That is 100% debunked.
1 BigPharmaSucks 2016-12-05
The efit is believed to be of one person. Not a fact.
1 cutol 2016-12-05
The witnesses saw 1 person, the e-fit is based on that 1 person.
1 BigPharmaSucks 2016-12-05
The witnesses saw 1 person, us it possible it's not the same 1 person? Quote from the article "Police have issued two efits that they believe are descriptions of the same man".
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/14/british-detectives-efits-madeleine-mccann-suspect
5 [deleted] 2016-12-05
[removed]
1 cutol 2016-12-05
It was referencing the photo of their stuff containing a baby appearing in a magazine with 'edibles' in the title. If you actually look at the evidence objectively, instead of assuming pedophilia from the outset, you do not arrive at pedophilia. The only way to read pedophilia into that is by starting at the assumption, and that the assumption is baseless (from made-up 4chan code words), it is unreasonable to start with that assumption.
There is also the thing where the old Besta logo is not proof of anything, it contains a common graphic element, it is not simply the same as the leaked FBI symbolism document. It is also ridiculous to think that a major pedo ring involving the most powerful people in the world would advertise to the common gutter pedo.
Burying your head in the sand by claiming that critical analysis of the evidence is part of a cover-up is an unreasonable position to take. You have to engage critical analysis, you have to throw out the evidence that has been debunked, you cannot cling onto it despite evidence to the contrary.
2 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
So why did Besta change their logo immediately after this story broke?
2 cutol 2016-12-05
Because a bunch of assholes began harassing them. No one wants to be on the business end of an unruly mob of true believers.
3 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
Who owns Besta Pizza? Does he happen to have a high ranking position in relation to missing/abducted children. If the answer to that last one is yes, then that would just be some fucking extreme coincidence, wouldn't it?
1 Glassclose 2016-12-05
Right right, keep blowing the smoke, no one trust you and it's quite clear your running an agenda. it's people like you who are trying to shut down those who aren't open minded and like having their heads in the sand.
They read the crap you post and 'op just said it's all nothing, welp time to put my head back in the sand'
yeah, except your on a conspiracy sub, and we detest putting the blinders on. Go spread your manure where someone is likely to ingest it.
1 cutol 2016-12-05
You're already wearing blinders. You're trying to battle reason while blinded by emotion.
0 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-05
Your reliance on personal attacks is telling...
4 Glassclose 2016-12-05
Obviously YOU are trying to start something. WHERE did I personally attack, when I quoted the person I was responding to?
cutol -3 points 2 hours ago* 'Concert posters: are you fucking stupid? E-fits: debunked Podesta artwork: misleading array of images there, none shown to be in his home. Abramovic spirit cooking: are you fucking stupid?"
So why you talking?
1 V1NC3NZ0 2016-12-05
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
51 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Don't be too upset. God wins in the end.
46 ConspiratorialChairs 2016-12-05
You're literally telling him to moderate his anger and outrage in this very real life because of your personal belief in fairy tales that in the end they'll be judged adequately? Fuck that.
OP - Be angry. Be outraged. Be loud.
7 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
I think I'm more being an encouragement to not give up and think their is no hope, because God is our hope and a very present help in times of troubles.
3 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
No proof of God.
If there were a Good it would not be the "omnibenevolent" God in Christianity. You can't be omnibenevolent and allow children to be abused, tortured, raped, murdered, etc and other evil atrocities.
6 2-DRY-4-2-LONG 2016-12-05
He never said anything about Christianity. Muslims believe in a God too. Lots of religions do. We where not created in an extreme coincidence.
5 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
Aside from the fact that bible scripture was thrown around here...
Do you have proof that God created us? Any God? If not, why say it? If so, why are you holding out on 7 billion people?
1 2-DRY-4-2-LONG 2016-12-05
Well. How was the world created then? By the big bang?
8 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
Why not? On a long enough time-frame, all probabilities >0 will occur
-3 2-DRY-4-2-LONG 2016-12-05
So we're a coincidence? It's a coincidence.
12 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
What's wrong with that? Or what's wrong with saying "I don't know." It's more honest than saying God did it.
3 2-DRY-4-2-LONG 2016-12-05
Define "God"
2 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
Why? I don't believe God exists.
3 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
There is the omniscient God.
And the god of this present world.
9 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
All the same with your Christian/Abrahamic God. Of which there is no proof of.
5 2-DRY-4-2-LONG 2016-12-05
Of course there is no proof you fool
8 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
I'm a fool for not blindly believing in something of which there is no proof?
Sound logic there
6 2-DRY-4-2-LONG 2016-12-05
Why must there by concrete proof ? Do you believe in pizzagate? If so. You blindly believe without concrete proof
6 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
I don't believe there is concrete proof of any wrong doing in pizzagate, no. So that argument failed hard
1 2-DRY-4-2-LONG 2016-12-05
I didn't say that.
8 Eyes0pen 2016-12-05
What about the other 12998 that have been propped up as the only true god. Yours is better than the others right?
1 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Yep.
-1 TeslaTimeMachine 2016-12-05
Satan's greatest lie is the rapture. If we don't fight with all our will and being, we will lose the war and not be worthy of His blessings. Satan's servants will rule the world for eternity.
-2 Red5BillyBumbler 2016-12-05
well, I agree with the 1st sentence, the Almighty has already won the war - His boundless mercy is what lets thing continue, that people repent of their wickedness - He does not wish that ANY should perish
as far as the rapture goes, look to the parable of the wheat and the tares - clearly says the tares (some translations say darnel - this is a mutant segment that is not edible) will be gathered FIRST to be thrown into the fire, only then is the wheat gathered into His storehouse
that verse about "one will be taken, and one will be left" is misunderstood to mean the "one to be taken" is the one to be saved, it's the other way around...
19 Glassclose 2016-12-05
I appreciate that sentiment very much.
4 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Thanks. I know it all sounds and is so horrible. But I know with all certainty that God himself cares. And in the end, God wins.
17 23eulogy23 2016-12-05
I was wondering to myself today, why would God allow children to be hurt like that for so long and in silence.. it has been going on for decades and child ritual sacrifice for thousands of years.. why now is it being exposed? The internet? Maybe God can only work through people and the more people that know the more they can stop something that powerful and at the top
11 311excitable1 2016-12-05
Simple: agency. You can't give everyone the power to do as they will yet intervene so those people don't reap those consequences of their actions. He could end it, and we all wish He would, but that would be interfering with the consequences of human agency.
11 23eulogy23 2016-12-05
Victims should have the power to do as they will then. And I doubt they willingly want those things happening to them. It is not right or fair for innocence to be taken like that. And the consequences should be very harsh and swift
-2 311excitable1 2016-12-05
And they will be in the afterlife, after all become aware of the evils perpetrated in this life. I understand what you mean and I don't think this is ideal, but this is the explanation that gets me by. If God is a God of justice, all will be made right in His time. I trust that. I wish you solace in whatever understanding leads you to comfort in this regard.
4 Shakenbake130457 2016-12-05
I think that more than the justice coming from God, the eternal guilt that these people feel in the afterlife when they see the true ramifications of their actions here on earth will be soul-crushing as well.
0 Pr0metheus__ 2016-12-05
And if he is not a God of Justice than he is not my god.
8 Hockey998 2016-12-05
Nah god actually just enjoys watching it all from above..
2 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
But he says that each child has its own angel that doth continually behold the face of the Father.
1 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
That's one part of it all that does bother me, because I know God could end it tomorrow. Then I think of grace, and of love. I am not a loving person, but God has shown me much grace. It's his eternal nature.
Perhaps He is giving the players in the pedophillia rings space to walk away and repent.
It can be hard in some senses to reconcile a loving God (which I believe he is) to the fact that innocent children are hurt and worse. But I pray, I pray every night for these children. I've even prayed for Alefantis. ( sorry to say I'm not praying for Brock or the Podesta's.) and I believe God answers prayers.
11 supaninjas 2016-12-05
Why didn't god answer the prayers of these abused, tortured children? I just don't understand your reasoning I suppose. Your God has watched, from his throne, these children sacrificed in far worse ways than we can fathom. Has watched them die with terror in their eyes unable to comprehend why their caregivers are destroying them.
0 DonTrump2017 2016-12-05
There is no God only Karma. Now the Karma is on our side. What goes around comes around. The Podestas worship Satan but he doesn't exist either. They think he does they are pure evil. Good can only Win with enough power and force to destroy the evil doers.
-1 burn_reddit_burn 2016-12-05
If there is no God, who or what determines what is good or what is evil? In order for there to be a universal law, there must be a universal law giver.
6 shadowplay71069 2016-12-05
What universal law? Humans decide what is right and what is wrong. We write the laws and enforce them imperfectly. If there was a universal law giver, it sure as hell does nothing to stop the lawbreakers.
0 Glassclose 2016-12-05
If God ended it tomorrow, it would not end it in the hearts and minds on mankind, and that is where the real battle is being fought, the soul.
The suffrage of the body is of the moment, with eternal souls, there in lies what these monsters may truly be after. Seeing some of the paintings where it depicts.. almost energy, or souls of the abuser, often in red, and the baby, I think yellow/orange, it makes me believe that the entire ritual is meant to siphon by destroying/shaving bits off in gruesome acts.. who knows.
It may not even be that mythical, it could just be sex and taking of whatever DNA material can be used in keep the elite young/healthy/immortal.
Ultimately I think the end game for the 'Elite' is to create an entire universe of their own, where they are the God' and they control every aspect, without what we currently know and exist in.
Just fan theory lol
5 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
They go that far because they are wicked.mGod says in Romans that he's given them up to a reprobate mind and they will worship the creature more than they creator.
2 kbjay 2016-12-05
You guys should check out the Law of One
0 Red5BillyBumbler 2016-12-05
AMEN, and this shows His boundless (for now) mercy.
-1 Orc_ 2016-12-05
God isn't omnipotent, omnipotent is just a figure of speech the bibles uses like "eternity" meaning just a long time..
-9 TeslaTimeMachine 2016-12-05
It is a trial, to see if mankind as a whole is worthy of His blessings. We have two paths before us.
Allow this to continue until all that is good is extinguished from this world. Allow Satan to rule us through his agents. Allow the perversion of his word and will that is Islam to exist.
Or reject evil and lies and fight for goodness and holiness and brotherly love.
A war is coming. It is chronicled in Revelations. All the actors are there. The Synagogue of Satan, the dragon, Illuminati. The Nicolatians, the Beast, Islam. The Mark of the Beast is the brand of Islam, the bismillah.
http://bigfaithministries.com/mark-of-the-beast/
Satan is the great counterfeiter. Islam takes God's word and twists it into a horrible anti-religion to Christianity. And did you know the Illuminati was founded in 1776? The same year our nation was founded. It is an opposing force to counter freedom and liberty with oppression and servitude.
In the war that is coming, oil plays a part, the world drunk on the wine of Babylon. China is a major player, opposing the USA. The woman with her feet on the moon, a crown of stars, and the wings of an eagle. There will be nukes, and a war in space between satellites. A ground war, and 3 billion dead. It's all laid out plain as day.
But there is hope. God has a plan and is on our side. I really suggest reading it. Someday soon we will all know it by heart. God has faith in us to make the right choice, we must have faith in him to guide us to victory.
11 hank0 2016-12-05
You're fucked.
2 whiskeycrotch 2016-12-05
Hahahahaha.
1 TheLonelyPen 2016-12-05
You're so dumb 😂
1 Ringo007 2016-12-05
"with all certainty" . No you don't. Youre hoping it is the case. You're putting blind faith into the equation here. Certainty no. Mental delusions yes. Keep it scientific.
0 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
One of the things that convinced to to give God and his realness a fair shot was the history of the Jewish people.
I believe the Jews confirm God.
2 Ringo007 2016-12-05
You're extremely deluded. Seek medical help for your mental issues.
0 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Thou sayest....
1 Ringo007 2016-12-05
What a shit mind you must have
-1 knewyorickknewyorick 2016-12-05
It's good to be God.
3 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-05
Lynch mobs don't fare well in the afterlife. ;)
-1 Glassclose 2016-12-05
Are mods allowed to incite shit just to ban people they don't like, sure seems like what you're trying to do.
2 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-05
Cool story bro.
-1 Glassclose 2016-12-05
I would appreciate it if you stopped harassing me. Abusing your position of power to flex in this sub, pure intimidation.
3 TheGhostOfDusty 2016-12-05
15 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
You have great intentions, but you seek help from fairy tale characters. The Elite have used this fiction to enslave you. Sorry to break it to you but; No God inside this Computer Simulation..
9 IcyMoose12 2016-12-05
Calls God a fairy tale. Claims that we live in a computer simulation....
-2 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
It is not pleasant. It is quite sad. Unfortunately it is exactly correct. Your energy of "worship" is actually absorbed by "The Archons" who have enslaved you..
5 IcyMoose12 2016-12-05
I'm not sure if you're joking or not but that sounds absolutely insane. Sorry man I try and be open minded to things, but what are you talking about?
0 Vivatrexinhomine 2016-12-05
But it'd not insane to believe in a made up old fart in the skies?
-1 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
Hi there. This is not a joke. You actually are unaware this is a Fake Universe? Regardless of how it sounds; You are currently inside a Computer Simulation.
3 natetheproducer 2016-12-05
Take a break from the David Icke videos.
1 Orc_ 2016-12-05
Wait you are the guy who always talks about "the archons" yet when thinking about God you act like an edgy atheist.
If this is a simulation then anything is possible, God exists, way more likely than "archons" who like you wrote me one time "hate humanity" but at the same time give fake blessing like heaven before reincarnation.
Make up your mind.
3 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
Never said they give "fake blessing". People die and then end up in the Astral Holding Area which is a "Fake Heaven". The "Fake Heaven" actually sucks big time. Humans created this Simulation as a playground. They forgot their true nature and eventually believed the Simulation and actual "matter" was real. The Simulation was then hijacked by the "Archons" who are Astral Parasites. The God you pray to does not exist. Time to grow up and understand; This universe is Fake. You live inside a Computer Simulation. Everything is possible in the expanding real universe. But currently you are not in the "Real Universe". Praying to a fictional god sends energy to the controllers of this Simulation; The Archons. Once again; This is a Closed Simulation. It does not expand. There are set rules and massive limitations programmed into the Matrix.
1 CptYossarian 2016-12-05
Pizza gate suddenly makes sense.
1 LukPla60 2016-12-05
This is Gold. I love when crazhy conspitacists make up crazy religions
1 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
All religions are mind control. The actual "crazy one" is person who never figures out the truth.
-1 Orc_ 2016-12-05
There is no evidence for anything you said but Occam's razor makes me believe God existing is more probable than your theory.
2 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
this is a waste of time. keep thinking that. goodnight..
1 Orc_ 2016-12-05
You entire sources are blogposts, re-think your life please.
2 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Think with me further, the elites hate my kind. They revel in every sort of debauchery, and think nothing of using me when I was younger, or my children now as cannon fodder in wars that line their pockets. To the elites, I'm just a serf, a bug to crushe if I every get in the way.
But the God of the universe, who created me, He loves me. And that's good enough for me.
11 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
Lol you're out of your mind if you think the elites hate Christians. You're one of, if not the largest, group they pander to for votes. Your religion and it's offshoots create some of the most ignorant voters- people that vote based on a representative's faith rather than their policies
0 TeslaTimeMachine 2016-12-05
Which cultural group are they currently trying to destroy by importing Muslims and fostering hatred for?
4 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
Why you hatin' on Muslims? Their God is the same as yours and their stories talk about Jesus too.
I am aware of the large amounts of refugees from Muslim dominant countries being imported by many western countries, but I haven't seen any evidence that the purpose of it is to destroy Christianity.
You're really lacking on the proof tonight
2 TeslaTimeMachine 2016-12-05
Our God is not the same. Islam is a perversion of Christianity. I really don't care too much who or what other people worship, but when the religion revolves around killing Christians and raping women and children, I take offense. And there is more than enough proof out there. It's not even hard to find. Go read Sharia law, or watch some of their videos. Or just look up the number of Christians murdered in Muslim countries over the last decade.
3 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
But all of those things are alright when your religion does it right? Don't remember those lovely crusades or burnings of witches or murdering all those heretics? Your God, allegedly, wiped out an entire city, Sodom. I'm going to go ahead and assume there were innocent children there. Nice guy, that God.
It's the same God, the Abrahamic God. Learn your religion a little before your argue it.
0 TeslaTimeMachine 2016-12-05
You think agents of evil weren't present at all those events? The Crusades were misguided in many ways, but that's not because the teaching of Bible encouraged such atrocities. As for Salem, hell, the witch burnings might even have been justified if they were doing the garbage to children these modern day monsters are doing. I don't know if I believe the "offical" narrative anymore. Sodom was probably the same. Evil is real, and sadly you can't always save everyone once they are touched by it. We must take solace in the fact that if innocents were present in Sodom, which according to the tale not one could be found, that they were delivered to God's presence and care.
And no, Islam was created and perverted by Satan. They worship him, not the God of Abraham.
10 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
"It's ok when my religion hurts people, but when others' do it, they're evil. I have no proof my religion is correct the and neither do they. We hate each other for small discrepancies in Scripture but we worship the same God and have the same core principles. I really have no idea about religion other than what I've been force fed by my parents and pastors. I lack critical thinking ability."
~ You
0 TeslaTimeMachine 2016-12-05
You know nothing about me, for many years I asked similar questions to the ones you ask. I can only relate to you the answers I've found. Many of them just recently upon realizing the full depths of the evil perpetrated by these elites.
2 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-05
I'm done. You've provided nothing substantial and fail to back up your arguments and hold a topic in discussion. Have fun in church
-1 TeslaTimeMachine 2016-12-05
I don't go to church.
-2 SteelPicker 2016-12-05
ok i know i came to r/conspiracy because i WANTED to check out some "out there" ideas and stories, and suspend my doubts for a bit while i entertain the theories and that kind of stuff, but I'm literally looking at a flame war over shit about god and religion, where the participants are taking it seriously.
It's enough to make me rather browse the euphoric-neckbeard circlejerk that is r/atheism
0 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
Yes. The God of the "Real Universe" is free will and eternal creation. Unfortunately; You are currently trapped inside a "Fake Universe". It is a Computer Simulation..
0 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
God is real my friend.
1 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
Hopefully you do realize you are currently inside a Computer Simulation and the local universe is completely "Fake"..
3 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
It can feel that way, but this is the real deal.
1 Kandiflipz 2016-12-05
If we are living in a computer simulation what year do you believe it truly is in the real universe. Are we still on earth? My wife and I were talking about this on a pretty high dose of 2cb the other day and the code behind the simulation seems unfathomable based on humans coding abilities today. In the last hundred years our coding abilities have grown exponentially but we are about to hit the silicon wall and are no where close to creating ai or procedurally generated computer simulated life.
Were we forced into this simulation or did we accept it by choice? Why can't I remember time before the simulation or were we born into it? Am I even a real physical being or do I exist solely in the simulation?
3 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
The beings in control the of the Simulation are the Archons. They erase your memory when they force you to reincarnate. That is why you cannot remember anything. You are real and originally from outside the Simulation. We have regressed substantially from when this Sim began. We are currently enslaved by the Archons, and must defeat them to progress once again.
3 Kandiflipz 2016-12-05
Where can I read more about this?
3 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
Hi. Here is a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFas8-SKXTQ Also here is an article http://humansarefree.com/2014/11/david-icke-exposes-archon-conspiracy.html
12 coolshifts 2016-12-05
Yes, he harvests all the souls. And tosses the ones he doesn't like. What does he use our souls for? What if it's like in that Twilight Zone episode where the aliens gave us a book to serve man and then at the end it's discovered that it's a cookbook. And all of the teachings of our religions are simply to make us live better lives because it makes the souls more tasty or provide more energy or whatever.
-1 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know.
10 coolshifts 2016-12-05
Sounds like dinner.
3 SavageBlueSky 2016-12-05
Spellcasting!! Wooooo
7 Teethpasta 2016-12-05
Lol God isn't real, it's only one of the oldest tricks in the book of the elite. Open your eyes to the real world. God is the tool they use to divide and conquer and teach weakness as a virtue and make people okay with their shit place in the world as they will be rewarded with an afterlife for their obedience to their overlords.
3 AlpharettaCarini 2016-12-05
god is dead
3 SteelPicker 2016-12-05
this statement gets thrown around enough to make it seem like some kind of catch-phrase. I don't know if it's Nietzche or what, but I swear, unless you want to elaborate on what you mean by it, stop fucking saying it.
Because that's a statement badly in need of explaining--was god like a person, an old dude in the sky with a beard, and something came along and killed him, or he got sick and died? Or, maybe you're saying the concept of god, as created by people, has been destroyed, or abandoned, or perverted, or misunderstood or distorted or attacked, or just ran its course and isn't relevant anymore, or whatever, to the extent that you consider IT dead?
Or like god is literally a dead guy, like a ghost, but he's still god, doing god-stuff, only he's just dead?
What THE FUCK does "god is dead" mean? Seriously I insist that you explain, because if you don't offer some kind of interpretation of that phrase, I have to assume you're just trolling and I majorly took the bait, hook line and sinker.
3 inertiatic_ESP 2016-12-05
yeah it's not to be taken literally. It was never meant to imply God ever existed and was killed off, rather the shift in views in the western world, the age of enlightenment and so on...we don't need religion or the idea of God any more, so He is dead in that sense
2 RemixxMG 2016-12-05
Nice mars volta name.
-3 Glassclose 2016-12-05
if God was dead, then Everything would be dead along with God. therefore, God must be alive, as We know things to be living.
16 AlpharettaCarini 2016-12-05
if god is alive then god is a fuckface
3 crecon 2016-12-05
Yeah, but you have to realize something: What is God? God is everything, right? Well, if God is everything, then God is both the yang and the yin - both the light and the darkness.
God does win in the end. God's winning right now as well actually. God's always winning...because all is God. Can't be any other way. Otherwise God's not everything.
2 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
I can't agree that God is the dark. John 1:1-5 KJV [1] … In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [2] The same was in the beginning with God. [3] All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. [4] In him was life; and the life was the light of men. [5] And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. …
2 crecon 2016-12-05
Okay. So then if God is not the dark, and darkness most definitely exists (both literally and metaphorically), then God necessarily is not “everything” (can't be since God is not darkness and darkness definitely exists). If God is not everything, then God cannot be all powerful, therefore (can't be since there is something - i.e. darkness - that, not being God, exists outside of the purview of God's existence and, therefore, ability). If God is not all-powerful, then that means God simply cannot control certain events. This God is ultimately an impotent God.
If God is not all powerful, then it stands to reason that there is something that is stronger and more powerful than God.
And what kind of God is that then? It’s a God “that really means well” but, in the end, is ultimately powerless to help and do anything about the calamities of existence.
That, by definition, cannot be the definition of an “all-powerful” God. You would agree, I’m sure. It is a self-contradiction. God is the very word that we human beings have for “the most powerful” - “the All”, right?
How can a god that is not all-powerful…win in the end? It will presumably get bested by that which is all-powerful…right? (or even that which is merely more powerful than it - without needing to be "all" powerful).
So you’re saying that not only is God not all-powerful, but that God is also limited to only being one gender to boot? God is a he? I’m assuming you mean a human “he”, right? So you’re saying God is a man in other words. Right?
How can a human male be in charge of even the observable entire universe, to say nothing of the infinitely more vast multiverse?
Seems chauvinistic to me, to be honest.
1 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
So what if God is a male? It's been throughout human history that men have been the main movers and shakers of time.
1 SavageBlueSky 2016-12-05
Because women have been oppressed by these religious books, and treated as property for men. Sexist god is no god.
0 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Women do not have the physical strength and stamina that a man does.
2 SavageBlueSky 2016-12-05
And? Physical strength isn't the only kind of mechanism for progress and change. I would offer that mental ability has far more of an advantage. But then again, women have been and still are, being denied an education.
1 crecon 2016-12-05
Well-said. Read your comment after I posted my own. Saying the same thing.
0 crecon 2016-12-05
God is male. God's also female, however. Both and neither - all and none.
The history you're aware of is but the tiniest blip in the radar of humanity's true existence on this planet. That other history - the true history of the species here - goes back ages long before any we're allowed to see.
This age has been male-driven. That much seems demonstrably valid.
That has not always been the case, however, and there have been ages far in advance of this one that were nowhere near as male-centric as this one.
0 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
The history of civilization can not be borne on the back of the female. She is simple weaker physically than a man.
2 crecon 2016-12-05
This...is an ignorant perspective...to the extreme. But okay.
1 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Physiologically speaking, men always have been and always will be stronger than the female.
2 crecon 2016-12-05
Not only is physical strength not the only type of strength, it isn't even the most valuable or necessary for success.
1 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
But it is the most valuable strength for building things and protecting things.
1 crecon 2016-12-05
Not if you're intelligent enough to know how to fight properly and build strong armaments. Strong enough to pull a trigger and shoot on target? Then you're set.
0 SteelPicker 2016-12-05
i get what you're saying, but just because they use "he" all the time, doesn't mean anyone's suggesting that God is human, or even really necessarily male. I mean the male-ness of it is pretty hard to avoid, but for instance, in spanish or french, articles to refer to any noun are gendered. "He," in some sentences in those languages (el, il) could be referring to the table, or the door, or whatever was just being discussed. It's just a way to refer to something.
And especially considering something that's understood to have consciousness, sentience, a persona, or whatever... it's more or less appropriate. It would be even sillier to correct it to "he or she" because then it would follow that god were a specimen of a species which had the two sexes, or that god were literally like a person of some sort.
Just saying "he" still works, at least imo, when one is considering god as just the embodiment of existence, or some other such abstract concept.
Just my $.02, anyway, not really important.
2 SavageBlueSky 2016-12-05
Except for 'god the father'. So Yeh. A male. If it was real.
1 crecon 2016-12-05
Kind of feels like that to me. I mean if a thing’s a she, then someone would say “she”, right? If they think it’s a he, well then they say “he”.
It has a different connotation in Spanish, however, and one can still successfully de-gendering a word in that language. Source: Spanish is my first language.
I understand what you’re attempting to show, but - again - it simply doesn’t have the same connotation in Spanish. For example, “the door” in Spanish is “la puerta”. Using “la”, technically makes the door a female. However, no one in Spanish ever thinks of a door as a “her” even while they’re saying “la puerta”. Same with every other inanimate object that has a gender-based pronoun.
In English, even though certain words are naturally/necessarily gendered - like, for example, “God” as opposed to “Goddess” - the pronouns “him” or “her” are used to much more rigidly and specifically categorize the gender of the noun in a manner that wouldn’t necessarily be so rigidly categorized without that pronoun.
While I understand that many people simply say “he” when referring to God out of just general custom, I still felt it pertinent to make mention of what I did in terms of questioning the previous user’s assumption of what gender God is/is not.
I refer to God as “It” whenever I’m force syntactically to use a pro-noun. Not difficult really - and much more accurate, I feel.
God’s not “he or she”. God’s “he and she” both. Has to be, for both sexes are most definitely contained within God.
Na man I think you have valid points and it’s good for you to have brought these counterpoints up here. I just feel that it’s imbalanced to refer to God using only one gender. I personally feel it’s a bit chauvinistic - if even subconsciously so - and necessarily incorrect, since God is, again, both and all sexes/genders.
I don’t think you have bad points though, and I feel I understand what you mean.
1 SteelPicker 2016-12-05
I definitely see what you mean there, actually I think I agree with all of that
1 crecon 2016-12-05
Cheers,
-2 gepagan 2016-12-05
Don't become confused by this, though. Yes, God is both the ying and yang, but the ying-yang only represents balance
Balance and harmony is the correct path towards God.
Imbalance is what forces you away from God. And there are many, many imbalances in the world today. God didn't create them, human beings created those imbalances and we also have to re-balance the scales ourselves.
"Satan" or "the devil" or "evil" or "Sin" is actually just imbalance. These are NEITHER the Ying nor the Yang. They represent imbalance, which inevitably leads to self-destruction. Imbalance is not sustainable. Anything separate from God is not sustainable.
This is true, but it is also Not true. God will ultimately win, but right now in the world, there are a lot of areas in which God is not winning.
In fact, there are places in the world that are so imbalanced and drowned in sin that God is nowhere to be found there. These people and/or places have literally separated themselves from God.
So try not to go to the opposite side of the spectrum and just say that Everything is God. Some people have truly ripped themselves away from it.
1 crecon 2016-12-05
I see what you’re saying, and it’s a sentiment expressed by many religions - one that I don’t think is completely without merit - but God, being technically everything, means that any and every path is the God-path. It’s just that some God-paths might be pretty awesome by conventional/human senses, and some really truly suck.
They’re all God, however. Have to be. Otherwise God wouldn’t be God/everything there is/the alpha and the omega. Much of Western civilization, and as a result, much of the people of the West, don’t understand or recognize this fact. The East, however, tends to realize and understand this reality much more clearly. The Buddhist and the Hindu religions particularly realize that God is the creator and the destroyer of existence both.
Once a human being attains transcendence, however, they can rise above both the good and the bad and be in a state of (in Buddhism) nirvana or (in Hinduism) nirvikalpa samadhi.
That is a contradiction in terms, however, because since God is in fact everything, then God cannot be anything but every being and every thing that exist - human and non-human both; from the lowest dreg in existence to the loftiest, most evolved figure.
It’s all part of the same whole.
This is an anthropomorphized version of God - which is fine in its own way and more closely related to that version of enlightenment that Hindus call “savikalpa samadhi” where one attains “enlightenment” through the visualization of God as a person or figure who is “balanced and good”, but it is not ultimately the loftiest version of the concept where God is all and everything independent of anthropomorphizing. For that, one necessarily has to travel through the understanding of the yin as well as the yang.
Na. They haven’t separated themselves from God. They’re just hanging out in the part of the “savikalpa” (anthropomorphized) version of God that’s near its/her/his ass crack is all.
Everything is logically, necessarily God. We humans just don’t understand the full dynamic of existence yet. We are babes upset that “Mom won’t just let us eat as many candies as we want! Mom must be mean and evil then!” when, in reality, she’s just looking out for us and disciplining us in ways that we do not yet understand.
And I didn't dv you, btw.
0 gepagan 2016-12-05
Everything you've stated is pretty basic Hindu/Buddhist philosophy, which I'm well aware of, and I agree with most of the ideas you've offered. I don't think it's the full truth.
God, in it's highest form, is everything, Yes. The purest and fundamental reality of God is simply pure consciousness. God in the Highest sense has no form or motive. It is simply consciousness, and everything springs out of that constant.
This does not mean that EVERY path is the God-path.
You state yourself:
So you understand that it is possible to move very far away from the full reality of God, essentially separating yourself from truth. Yet, you do not believe that it is possible to completely fall off or split apart from God. I do believe that is possible.
I do believe that every person is an individualization of God, with Free Will. This is key, because it essentially means you can make choices that are not harmonious with God, that are not balanced with the proper flow of Nature, and that are destructive in and of itself. You can continue to make these choices, and they will be reaped at some point. The consequences of those choices will be very bad for you, but still you can continue to make those choices even after experiencing the Karma. And yes, often times a lifestream will still continue to push themselves farther away even after reaping the Karma. But they always have a choice to turn around and go back.
You are a co-creator with God. You actually participate in the Creation process. And therefore, you have to also balance the scales, not God or gods.
By your philosophy, one can say that any action is appropriate and can continue to be done indefinitely, with no real chance of you ever losing yourself from the "River of Life" that is God. I don't agree with this because of the reality of Free Will. A person can choose to continue and continue to move farther away until they are no longer part of it, God. By this point, they will be in such a sorry state of a self-created "Hell" that they will have every reason to change their ways and turn around back to the Source. The Karma will be so harsh, that they will have every opportunity to start making their way back, even if they are way out in the "savikalpa", as you call it. But eventually, they will destroy themselves if they do not make the change.
As I stated before, imbalance (or anti-God) is self-destructive... It is not sustainable. It will destroy itself, since God will not be present in that self-created "Hell". And to think that there is some "law" in place that subverts and bypasses an individuals Free Will to continually separate itself from God is not something that I agree with.
Actually, I was just repeating your own terms when you stated "God is always winning". That is an anthropomorphization. I was assuming that we were speaking in terms we both understand, so sorry you got confused when I repeated about God winning. But yes, I realize that in the highest levels, it is not possible to project human emotions and characteristics onto God. It has no form, no drive to create, nothing of that sort. It is simply consciousness.
EDIT Oh and I have no idea what you mean by "I didn't dv you", not sure what "dv" is.
0 crecon 2016-12-05
If you think that an individualization of God is separate from God, then that God cannot be “all there is”, since that would put God on one end, and the individualization that is separate from God on the other.
If one says the individualization is God, however, then that would mean the individualization has no free will since it is a manifestation of God Itself.
So either there is no free will - i.e. everything is a manifestation of God Itself - or there is free will - in which case, God is not “all powerful”…which would make God impotent.
The latter conclusion (an impotent God - which is essentially no God) seems far more logically abhorrent than the former (no free will since God is manifesting Its will as everything there is).
And my point is that all this that you just described? It’s still within the purview of God’s existence. It’s still in God. It’s still part of God.
There is limited amnesia that God has put into Its creations, and this amnesia causes many of those creations to forget that they are in fact the Godhead and all of Its creations. They think themselves small because they have forgotten about that part within them that remembers they are in fact infinite.
And the “they” we’re talking about is ultimately God. Even while they tumble around lost, seemingly “away” from God, they are only tumbling away from God in seeming. It is only temporary.
Even if that tumbling in darkness lasts a billion millennia…it is still only a temporary amnesia.
The confusion eventually goes away and the individual identity ultimately realizes that it all along was actually a much greater identity (the identity, actually - God), and it just had a dream wherein it was a bunch of different individuals - all having separate, disparate thoughts and feelings, many of them quite destructive. Everything and everyone will eventually wake up and realize that they were all One. All the angels, all the demons. All of them. They were and are all God dreaming and drawing and doodling and telling stories.
Seems to me we are quark-sized identities playing in a sand lot the size of the universe thinking that because we can’t see the end of the sand lot, that it is “infinite” and we have “infinitely free will”. Even those quarks in massive universe don’t have free will, however. There’s a lot we cannot do.
For example, try to think of an object that is both in and out at the same time; simultaneously convex and concave in the same space; both up and down at the same time; both black and white together…not gray, mind you. Not mixed w/black and white. Literally both black and white.
Seems we can’t quite do it.
Our will and our thoughts, it seems, are confined by the limitations of our sensory abilities and perceptions and our brain and mind’s capacity to grasp concepts. There is a lot we cannot do.
It seems we are very not free.
It’s okay though. Even though we don’t have free will, there’s still a lot we can in fact do. I don’t think we have to think of ourselves as greatly limited by our not having free will.
Doesn’t matter how far you move toward the edges of nothingness…you are still in the nothingness…and that nothingness…is still God.
Sure. I wouldn’t disagree with that - only I would simply say that it’s all Source. Just different areas and aspects of it.
You are likening savikalpa to being away from God consciousness? That is the very opposite of what it is actually.
And what is the “they” that gets “destroyed”? That “they” is but a rain drop in that ocean that is still God Itself. Once that tiny raindrop gets “destroyed”, it will simply go right back into Source from where it came. It will simply be a small identity ingested as one into the Great Identity.
Seems to me that God is as much that self-crated hell as It is the self-created heaven.
“dv” means “downvote”. Your vote count was at 0 and then -1 when I saw it, and I was just saying that I didn’t vote you down. I don’t think that anything you’re saying is worth a downvote. You have good perspectives - even if they differ from mine. It’s quite alright. All of it really. :)
1 gepagan 2016-12-05
Ah, wasn't familiar with that one, but thanks for that. I am indifferent to the upvotes and downvotes, as my spiritual views often contradict all of the most established sides of an argument, which means my comments often have the most opposition on every side.
The issue with the down-voters is that they didn't bother to respond. I added to a conversation we are having, and you are engaging me as well, but you didn't dv. Anyway, we know reddit is really an opinion site. It doesn't matter if you are contributing or not, it's easier to down vote than to respond on why you think I'm wrong. Not too concerned about digital points either way. So thanks for actually participating in open forum discussion.
Regarding the conversation we were having....
I believe most of the world religions have truth, some more than others, but none have the full story. I certainly don't claim to know it all, and I just take my views from some of the foundational teachings found in all of them and more modern teachings (1800s - present day).
Judging by your comments, it seems like we would agree on most things. But once anyone starts getting into these deeper, more mystical (some would even say esoteric) discussions, there is bound to be some disagreements and misunderstandings.
But I think I may have identified the crux of our disagreement in this particular topic.
It can kinda be summed up in your first sentences:
I will simply explain what I believe on this issue:
I think it is possible to be an individualization of God with Free Will, and at the same time that necessarily means that you are part of the one God, which is everything. I think where we disagree is when you say that the individualization must have no free will if it is manifested from God itself.
As I said in my previous posts, the highest level of God has no form. God, at that level, is simply pure Being, or consciousness. Let's call it the "Allness" of God. Out of the Allness comes a self-conscious being which acts as a Creator (do not try to place this "event" on a timeline, in these states there is no beginning nor ending nor linearity). The Creator has form, but it is not a form that can be conceptualized by our human minds / limitations. Now, the Creator does have the potential and the drive to create something, and it must fashion that something out of its own being, or consciousness. Just like when we humans build our toys, machines, and huge cities, those material things must first start as a blueprint in the mind/consciousness of a human co-creator, and then it can become manifested reality.
Now, the Creator can continue indefinitely to create utterly unfathomable and beautiful -- yet completely inanimate and without any Free Will -- objects and manifestations. And I am sure that the Creator (I will add that I believe in many Creators, not one), did do just that. But... and here is the crux... it also created self-aware and self-conscious, self-driven beings to inhabit this world of form. Why would it do this?....
The importance of a self-aware being is that this individualization has the potential to recognize that it is an extension of God. Although a rock has God's consciousness within it, it just does not have the self-awareness to realize it is a part of God and, as a result, make decisions that are against the correct "Flow" of God.... or what Eastern teachings call "The Way," for example. Or what Western religions call the "Will of God"
When a lifestream remembers that they are an individualization, or a Son or Daughter of God, then God can experience this material world through them. That is how God, overall grows and transcends itself as well... through your own Godly experiences.
The other purpose for making self-aware beings was because God doesn't want to have a world of form that is static and dead. God did create natural laws to guide the world of form (example: Karma and Samsara). Essentially, these laws allow the world of form to grow and evolve without any direct input from God. But why would God create this mechanical universe, governed by these laws? That would mean that God could just sit back and watch the universe unfold in exactly the ways that it intended, without even a minor deviation....
Yet, it is my belief that God created a universe that can evolve in ways that are surprising even to God. For this reason, God created those co-creators "In the image of God". We are Creators, just like the Creator that created the world of form we live in. If that Creator can create a world of form as intricate, complex, and unfathomable as the one we are in, then we as Co-creators have the same capability. Yet we are currently at a very low state (due to our own actions and those pesky laws of Karma and Samsara).
I 100% agree with this statement you make here:
God created planet Earth as a rough outline, and we are here doing the Co-creating from the inside. We have true dominion here, not God. Seems weird to say, but I believe that's the truth. Our planet right now is simply not living up to the full potential that the Creator's mind had originally intended. And yes, that is possible because we are the Co-creators here, we have the power to do that. We can make change happen that is against the Flow of nature/God. Nevertheless, as you are stating, this is still to some degree within the overall plan of God.
This brings me to the final point. The final reason that I believe is the purpose we were created:
Humans beings are not simply here to experience the world and co-create the universe. Humans are created with the potential to grow in consciousness and self-awareness until they reach the pinnacle of self-awareness. Some call this "enlightenment" and other call it "ascension", and there are other terms as well... This process has many stages, which must each be transcended, and the world of form we live in now here on Earth is a schoolroom for our lifestreams working towards this effort. As a result, even the current imperfect conditions serve as a way to help us grow and transcend -- BUT only if that lifestream is willing.
Let me just add this one statement you make here which I want to address:
You state this as if it is a guarantee that every single one will eventually come back to God. This subverts and dismisses Free Will once again. I am going to piggy back off of your analogy and use those same terms, so don't get too caught up with this metaphor:
Sure, the "angels", who are closer to God and are following the "God path" will continue to wake up and realize they are all One and that all of it is God. But the "demons"...who are very far away from God and steeped in a dark illusion of un-reality, well...they may not make it back. They have that choice. And don't get me wrong here...the part of them that originated in God, which we all have, will not be lost. That will be re-absorbed into the Allness. But everything that they perpetuated and created throughout their existence that does not flow with God, that will all disappear. Literally vanish. It had no ultimate reality in God in the first place. It only existed in the mind/ karmic ties that the individual was perpetuating constantly. There is no such thing as an eternal Hell where people who have separated from God will spend in eternal torture. The only Hell is the one that you are creating, and that Hell is there to serve as a spring board for you to start making your way back to God. If the lifestream continues to manifest these illusions, which have no ultimate reality since they are self-destructive and unsustainable, then they will altogether "vanish" just like the rest of it. It's no longer part of God, because it simply cannot exist within God. And it is not sustainable in order to exist without the help of God/Creator.
Again, thanks for participating with me in the conversation. I'm sure most of our beliefs align, but allowing the specific details to divide anyone is the mistake that religions have been making for centuries.
1 crecon 2016-12-05
They don’t seem greatly inflammatory to me - but then again, mine aren’t very conventional by Western standards in the least.
Agreed.
Likewise.
Fully agreed.
Mirrors my own stance as well.
Correct.
Certainly. Such is, of course, understood, expected, and is alright.
I find that to be a contradictory statement because if you are within God, then you are within God’s will. If you are within God’s will, then your will is not individual and separate from God’s.
I wouldn’t disagree with this interpretation on your part.
This I think is a very important statement. I feel I understand much of what you posted, and I feel I am also discerning a differentiation in our categorizations of God. It seems to me that what you are calling God is the Creator that springs from the Allness.
What I am calling God, on the other hand, is the Allness Itself from which that Creator springs.
Within the context of the Allness from which that Creator springs, I would say yes, you are right in establishing that there can be a Creator on one end, and an individual identity with its own free will separate from the Creator on the other. Both the Creator and the individual exist separately within the stratum of The Allness.
I understand this. What I’m saying, however, is that this particular definition of the Creator is in fact not God Itself because it is not the end all and be all of everything in existence. The Allness is that - and it is The Allness Itself which is in fact God…not the Creator that springs from The Allness. The Creator is only a manifestation of The Allness - like you are and I am. The Creator is just a manifestation that is, let’s say, closer to the core of The Allness than you or I are. The Creator is still a creation, however - a creation of The Allness.
It is The Allness which is God - and everything that comes from The Allness is one with It.
3 Tatersalad99 2016-12-05
Which one?
1 Ringo007 2016-12-05
.... Come on we're dealing with enough deluded idiots atm. Don't need you adding fuel to the fire. This whole thing is proof enough there is no God so pull your head out of your unholy ass hole.
2 SavageBlueSky 2016-12-05
As some that has worked as a sex abuse therapist for 20 years, I find some of these comments rather abhorrent, by the religious folk, making excuses as it's all part of God's plan. Fuck that kind of God.
2 Ringo007 2016-12-05
Yep but in their own words. "thou shalt not tempt the Lord" and "God has a plan"... For you to be raped and molested. Thanks God!!
2 imthewiseguy 2016-12-05
I think that whole "this is part of God's plan" stuff is crap
2 SavageBlueSky 2016-12-05
God is a cunt.
1 Ringo007 2016-12-05
Yep. "God" is also not real. But if there were a "God", then it'd have to be a psychotic cunt.
0 imthewiseguy 2016-12-05
God's plan is not to have children sexually abused. If you remember, he said in the old testament, that if you mistreated a fatherless child, he will hear their cries, and he would make make your children fatherless and make your wife a widow. You would also be punished for making fun of the blind and deaf.
Let's both agree for a second that God is real and seeing what's happening. Do you think this is his plan? Heck no. "he will judge the sexually immoral (grown ups diddling little kids is absolutely disgusting)", even those who are part of "Christianity", like the priests and such (I put quotes around Christianity, because anyone doing something as sick as that doesn't deserve to be called a Christian.).
2 SavageBlueSky 2016-12-05
God punishing someone's offspring for the evil deeds of their parents, is an evil thing to do.
Especially when you consider many children are actually abused by their own father anyway.
A loving parent, protects a child, not allows bad things to happen to them and then punishes them for the actions of another.
It's sick and you know it.
1 imthewiseguy 2016-12-05
You're saying a God who allows children to be mistreated is cruel. I showed you how much he hates it, in bible times it would be punishable by death. Then you say punishing that person with death is unfair to the person's child, and that's sick.
I'll say it again. He did not plan for this to happen. He wanted us to live happy lives while serving him. He did give us free will. We humans decided "no we can manage ourselves, we don't need you!" Now that he's given like almost full reins, and when people use their free will to hurt children, and he doesn't intervene when something bad happens, we want to complain. That's kinda like people telling their parents "fuck you mom and dad, I'm out of here, I don't need you and your rules!" and moving out, but expecting the parents to come bailing them out of every bad situation they encounter.
41 petrus4 2016-12-05
I have known about elite paedophilia and attrocities against children for at least 15 years now. I assure you that it is extremely real.
The well-meaning majority need to remove all faith and confidence in government as it currently exists, so that something else may be built which is truly deserving of that confidence. I am no longer a complete anarchist; I believe in the necessity of a system, but that it must be a system that works, and that is genuinely beneficial.
3 interesting_if_tru 2016-12-05
How exactly can you assure us of this? Have you seen things first-hand that you're willing to share?
13 Sister_Lauren 2016-12-05
I have, I have been encountering it indirectly for my whole life. I have known more than enough victims to know it is very widespread and very covered up.
The police cover it up, the doctors cover it up, the teachers act like it is not happening. Everyone keeps a lid on it. The agencies that are supposed to help kids are the same ones who traffic them. If you try to blow the whistle on it you will be discredited, raped or even murdered. I was brutally raped in order to shut me up. My life has been threatened repeatedly. It's real. It is very, very ugly and it is controlled by and is controlling our government in a very ugly feedback loop.
Since I started speaking publicly about my experiences with abuse victims, the FBI changed their definition of rape. Before that they did not even consider sodomy to be a form of rape. Can you believe that? Think about that mindset.
1 Toonath 2016-12-05
I find it shocking that sodomy would not have be considered rape and I admire you for speaking out for abuse victims and for surviving such a horrible ordeal ideal yourself.
The laws have to be changed -- if it was up to me, it would be life in prison/or worse, for anyone who commits rape or Paedophila. Paedophiles have one of the highest rates of re-offending, imo, they need to be separated from society.
9 petrus4 2016-12-05
Every now and then, sometimes years apart from each other, I've seen the odd story on the Internet about elite/senior political paedophilia. They haven't shown up often, necessarily; just enough to give the steady impression that there is something bubbling away in the background, but that said something is huge.
Stuff like this:-
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/barrretttwilightofpsychopaths21aug08.shtml
It's like there being a massive lava lake beneath an active volcano. At the moment the volcano is starting to erupt, but there have been tremors going through the ground every now and then for years. It wasn't necessarily enough to know the exact size of the lava lake, but from the nature of the tremors and the rumbling, you can tell that it is big, and that when it erupts it's going to like Mount Vesuvius.
7 deplorable_oracle 2016-12-05
Not to speak for /u/petrus4, but I've also known for about a decade, beginning with meeting my first acquantance victimized by it. To the credit of my cynicism, I was skeptical until I met several others, none of which had ever had contact with the others I knew, and the circumstances of my contacts with them were completely unrelated. Yet they all told the exact same stories with sufficient conflicting details to convince a trial jury.
I've never witnessed nor experienced this first-hand, but I continue to meet survivors of this who share certain details of what happened, but never go into the responsible parties (with a few exceptions) for my own safety. The fear / terror in them is real, and the emotional and physical scars they bear are real. Putting the pieces together from their stories, plus my own investigation, I've come to the following conclusions:
And my most unappealing conclusion, but one which should prevent no one from continuing to try, is that this is far too powerful to stop now. At this point, the powers that be have too much influence and control to ever get caught, and possibly too much to care if they do.
It's very real, and you should be very concerned.
n/a interesting_if_tru 2016-12-05
I had never thought of that before but it's really interesting. I definitely believe in occult magick and that description would add a lot of credence to what's happening... thanks for sharing all of this.
n/a deplorable_oracle 2016-12-05
No problem, brother. It's a really difficult subject to investigate, so take it slow.
3 maga_4_life 2016-12-05
You should review the account of Jay Parker who was raised in a Satanic abuse family. It is hard to listen to some of the details of his abuse but this particular interview also addresses some of the questions people tend to have in the vein of "well, HOW do they cover up the abuse?" He talks about living in communities as a child where the majority of families (thus the children being abused) are in the "old religion" as Jay's "mother" referred to it. He mentioned as many as 80% percent of the kids at the local elementary school were trapped in the cult. His "mother", Josette Parker, was a schoolteacher. He also explains instances where criminal investigations were smothered at the local Police level. He explains that his "family" attended Christian church services as a cover story every Sunday before heading directly to the satanic church where he was abused.
Show Episode 17 podcast, with "Neo" as guest: http://www.whatonearthishappening.com/podcast?start=150
Episode 17 link to YT video version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hwy3b6EgWM&list=PLnFHbmPeGjTBy0DlODPJSRHzW3ned4XVk&index=17
"Neo" is Jay. Jay now speaks publicly about his childhood.
Another excellent interview with Jay on YT where he explains the origins of the satanic abuse cults: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THuV_5HGkqo
Lastly, Jay recommends people read Jospeh P. Farrell's books to become more informed about the system: https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-P.-Farrell/e/B001KCNKF4/ref=sr_tc_2_0?qid=1480964491&sr=1-2-ent
Hopefully you take the time to review some or all of this information as I believe it would help you inform yourself on the subject.
26 MMAPundit 2016-12-05
It is real
And it is very dangerous.
2 numdoce 2016-12-05
I don't know where else to ask. Sorry if I seem lazy, English isn't my first language and I can't find anything on the news.
I know what pizzagate is, but, what about the gunman and false flags and the street security camera everyone has been talking about in these past hours?
2 MMAPundit 2016-12-05
A lot will be said for the coming weeks until another more sensational story comes along and distracts us again or just gets us emotionally flustered. Quite interesting in seeing how all of this is playing out both societal and system wise. Either way we are doomed due to our intellectual negligence.... have a good day.
1 numdoce 2016-12-05
Thanks for answering, but I think my English is actually really bad :(
I was trying to say I don't know or understand anything about the gunman/street camera/false flags that happened in these hours, could someone please explain that to me?
1 MMAPundit 2016-12-05
Here is my best pizza gate eli5
Bad people got together to do really bad things to kids.
The gunman came with presumed bad I tentions.
Comet pizza is in a particular area that has a lot of public and private camera security.
They got the gunman and are running with the new precedent of protecting them in comet pizza.
That's all I know.
17 crecon 2016-12-05
Pizzagate's been looking very real.
14 wizl0rd 2016-12-05
When you get into politics, you have all these great ideas right? You wanna change the world right? Then you get high enough to attract the attention of TPTB. At this point, they will invite you to a party to "discuss your political lines". When you get there, they drug you without you noticing, then they put drugged out naked little girls on your lap and take pictures. At this point you are their puppet. You will play ball and will never spill the bean. People say: If there really was a conspiracy people would have spoken out. Well, I just explain why most won't, and those that did, you didn't believe them and told them to go put on their aluminum hat. Weird times indeed.
13 Putin_loves_cats 2016-12-05
TPTB have to control the Great Awakening. IMO, this is what you are seeing...
2 TABLE1111 2016-12-05
Agreed! The light is being cast upon the shadows of humanity so they can be revealed and healed.
10 therealmerloc 2016-12-05
the real source of leads are breaking on /pol/ and voat
9 qrayzhd 2016-12-05
Religion is the greatest conspiracy of all.
12 isnormanforgiven 2016-12-05
Lets stay focused here and not get distracted
3 FrankTheFlank 2016-12-05
I think there is a true source of all religion in our world. There is some real essence of spirituality that preaches love, kindness, and above all the belief that EVERYTHING is connected, be that humans, nature, earth, and the Cosmos.
Many wise people have existed on this earth who have spread this benevolent message.
Enter religion, which perverts this true spirituality as a tool of control, using it as a justification for political dominance.
Spirituality is an individual quest, don't believe anyone that you need religion to find enlightenment/peace. That's the true lie that's been told for the past 4 thousand years when the malevolent monotheistic religions have existed.
1 dogcatfishlion 2016-12-05
This. A million times this. Spirituality != religion.
9 sheasie 2016-12-05
starting?!
mate, just because YOU are finally starting to clue in... doesn't mean it's just "starting"!! ;)
but welcome aboard - i am sad to say
consider yourself at that moment in time when you realize "jet fuel doesn't burn steel". (i.e., oh, it's very very real.)
8 23eulogy23 2016-12-05
They are fuckin with our heads. The average Joe citizen scoffs at the idea of crisis actors and false flags. As long as the masses continue to worry only about their Ipads and lattes then they still have control. But people are waking up at an alarming speed
8 NoffCity 2016-12-05
One of the things that keeps me from believing this is real is that fact that the so called "code words" are based off of a post on 4chan.
Can anybody show me something where these 'codewords' are established codewords? When looking them up online I can't find any reference other than pizzagate
11 SteelPicker 2016-12-05
i don't know where those code translations came from, but at the same time, can anyone offer an example of how the sentence, sent to John Podesta by someone called Susan:
"The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related."
might make any amount of sense, at all, in any imaginable conversation? Just try yourself, see if you can fit that into a fake dialogue where it isn't completely insane and bizarre. I can't. then it goes on to say:
"Is it yorus [sic]? They can send it if you want. I know you’re busy, so feel free not to respond if it’s not yours or you don’t want it."
So, if you take the words at face value, this means:
Some realtor (whoever that is) found a literal handerchief, and lets Susan know. She takes a look at it, and it seems to have an image of a map printed on it, at least she thinks so (remember, she doesn't say she's sure, she says "I think it has a map"). So, maybe it's a vague image, or maybe she sometimes has trouble remembering what exactly a map is... but she thinks the thing on the handkerchief probably is one.
And also, the map is "pizza-related." It's a map with directions to pizza places. Or its a map of the country where pizza was invented.... or, uh.... seriously I can't think of a fucking thing that this could legitimately mean. And i'm trying here, to give them the benefit of the doubt and think of a normal meaning for a pizza-related map. It sounds like the kind of shit Charlie from Always Sunny would write in his dream book.
Oh, and ALSO, this handkerchief appears to have enough value or significance that it would warrant an email offering to return it to its rightful owner. A very expensive-looking, beautiful, silk pocket square, maybe? ok.... with a pizza-map on it. Right.
That's precisely the type of item that, if I found it in my home, I would have a good idea of which one of my guests it belonged to, because who CAN'T determine who the owner of a HANDKERCHIEF was? She probably knew that silk pizza-maps were totally John's style, and he'd be really upset if he lost it. So she'd better just shoot him an email offering to FedEx it right away, if he wants it back.
OR,
It's a secret fucking code and it's WEIRD.
I will admit, that almost every other one of those wikileak emails' text had some sort of conceivable context that would explain it in an innocent way. But this one?
Please, be my guest and take a crack at it. I would love to be proved wrong.
2 slowtasker222 2016-12-05
Maybe it's a handkerchief with a map of Italy on it and has pictures of food on it
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/16/dc/16/16dc162149aab12d77ca59e713dc2ebb.jpg
1 SteelPicker 2016-12-05
well shit. any idea if that comes as a hanky?
1 slowtasker222 2016-12-05
Not a clue but you can have it made into one by whatdoyouneed.com
1 KLHerron720 2016-12-05
I was thinking that maybe someone could've been using text-to-speech and something got horribly mangled.
One weird email doesn't seem like enough....
3 SteelPicker 2016-12-05
a couple of things....
first, "handkerchief" is one of those words that doesn't really sound like any other words. hard to mistake.
Second, in other emails, podesta and his recipient were pretty quick to correct a simple typo (he wrote "i'm passed . . . " and they replied "you mean pissed?" then he said "yes sorry, i meant pissed"). Here, he replies "It's mine, but it's nothing to worry about." Doesn't inquire about anything weird being told or asked. Doesn't clarify any meanings.
Third, the following sentence has a typo:
I highly doubt any text-to-speech fuckup outputted that. Furthermore, there are punctuation errors, and the use of parentheses (one such error being the omission of a closing parenthesis). Doubtful that it was anything other than manually typed.
All the words and phrasing are pretty straightforward. The response from Podesta is matter-of-fact, and directly addresses the question.
Your suggestion almost had me at first, and for a second I felt optimistic. Unfortunately, though, IMO it remains unexplained.
[edit]
also, one weird email isn't enough, but there are a couple. The others just have the capacity to allow for explanatory contexts. This weird email to me appears to be the one massive fuckup that went overlooked, where people got sloppy, or just absent-minded, and allowed a very questionable statement and, even worse perhaps, a response which treats it as an ordinary question, to exist in black and white.
7 TheIncredibleJake 2016-12-05
This is nothing new man. The difference is now there's a bit more evidence for the nay-sayers to finally wake up and realize this world isn't all rainbows and sunshine.
Just listen to what the musicians are saying.. they're all warning of something. Something is going to happen with fire. Any theories on that?
2 Glassclose 2016-12-05
well it does say the end of days will be herald with brimstone falling from the heavens..
1 kraftwerkd 2016-12-05
Any links? Curious.
7 JeanLucTrumpard 2016-12-05
I just looked up, what this Pizzagate is all about.
I haven't made up my mind about it, but what I really find weird are the paintings... these are some insider knowledge paintings.
6 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
Proof that today's event was staged?
11 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
They adjusted the traffic camera for no reason, on a Saturday .
We need to get a dodgy reporter to file some foias.
*editedbto say Saturday instead of Friday.
1 Cessno 2016-12-05
That's not proof, that coincidence. Which I don't even know if that's true
-6 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
So? And how do you know it was 'for no reason'? And who cares what day the camera was adjusted?
That barely qualifies as an interesting event, never mind as proof of anything.
11 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
They adjusted it from the street view in front of Comet to where it faces a pole.
-6 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
So? And it doesn't just 'face a pole'..you can still see traffic activity from the camera.
It's hard to make assumptions about this besides it being coincidental. Not to mention, there are photos of the gunman in news stories. Why does everything have to be on video in order for it to be 'true'
10 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Why, on. Saturday, when the public words departments are never seen, was one camera that could have shown what happened changed to only show part of a pole?
-1 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
Huh? I lived in DC for 10 years. Seeing DC District Dept. of Transportation workers working on a Saturday was not unusual.
It doesn't only show part of a pole, it also shows traffic. Besides that, I have no idea...but it's not evidence of a conspiracy.
7 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
It's evidence that someone who doesn't usually work on a Saturday made sure the camera was moved and the view was blocked.
2 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
Your making assumptions with no proof. Do you know the person that moved the camera personally? Do you know any employees from DDOT? Do you know anyone in HR or managers who do scheduling?
The view is not blocked. It may no longer point at the restaurant (I don't know if it ever did), but the camera's view of traffic is not blocked. No matter how many times you make that claim it won't become a fact.
7 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
The facts are that the camera, which acted as a traffic camera normally would, was moved on a Saturday. The fact is that it now faces a pole and does not give a clear view any longer.
3 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
You are still wrong. Here's the camera's view:
http://app.ddot.dc.gov/ (Select the camera at Connecticut and Nebraska)
And it's change of direction is evidence of nothing. Would you present this to a jury as evidence if you were defending a case?
0 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Put the views side by side.
3 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
What' views (plural)? There is only one view. Do you have a second?
1 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
The view from Friday when it was discovered and they view today with the pole.
3 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
I'm unaware that 'the view from Friday' exists. Do you have an image to share?
1 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
I'd have to look around. I know some people on VOAT were posting about it and may have taken screenshots.
3 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
Please share when you find an image.
What do you think the comparison would prove?
3 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
Actually they moved the Camera on Saturday.
-1 basedputin 2016-12-05
how can we proof when it just happened? if you don't believe, look up sandy hook hoax. no one died. the whole thing was crisis actors, and the kids that supposedly died were seen alive a year later. everything was psyop by the cia
2 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
If you watch that Sandy Hook video that focuses on the DhS sign in sign, you'll see a man who looks just like Omar Marteens father.
6 DrTBurn 2016-12-05
https://dcpizzagate.wordpress.com/
5 Idiocrazy 2016-12-05
Found the dudes facebook, I think he is a very concerned dad with two daughters, went to Haiti to help the people there. Thinking maybe he took a gun because he wasn't sure what they would do. He has a long criminal history.
5 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
Time for you to wake up and find out who these savages worship. It is The "Archons". They judge you even though they are pure evil. They erase your memories and force you to Reincarnate..
1 JeanLucTrumpard 2016-12-05
wut?
1 anewfeeling 2016-12-05
Sounds like scientology.
1 IceDagger316 2016-12-05
It's gnosticism.
Hubbard actually lifted most of the concepts for Scientology from Gnostic teachings but then put an alien sci-fi twist on them. So you actually weren't too far off.
1 toanythingtaboo 2016-12-05
wut
1 racerx52 2016-12-05
Power overwhelming
4 FriendlessComputer 2016-12-05
Except it's really not. All of the alleged evidence proving this is a false-flag is either fabricated (moved traffic camera that then overnight morphed into "turned off" traffic camera - based on a single Voat post with no mention of a timeframe or any proof that the camera was actually moved), misleading (Washingtonian posting the article early - common Google bug), or doesn't actually prove anything (guy was a production assistant on three no-budget films, ergo he can't do anything bad unless hes being paid to be a crisis actor). It's a laughable attempt by Pizzagators of false-flagging a false-flag to protect the integrity of their movement and deny the very real fact that encouraging people to "ask questions" about a global pedophile ring of untouchable, unprosecutable people encourages lone nuts to try and bring justice into their own hands.
It's an undeniable fact that telling a bunch of people that they are battling untouchable monsters is going to make at least one of them act out. We saw it with Sandy Hook when people with guns started showing up at the school, school committee meetings and outside victims' homes. We saw it with the Boston bombings. We saw it with the Salt Lake City daycare when actual /r/conspiracy users started trespassing on the property of a daycare in a low-income neighborhood and taking pictures into the windows of the place because a single person said the building looks suspicious and suddenly out of nowhere a whole elaborate drug smuggling conspiracy was invented.
Edited:
downvoted? Clearly the false-flagging false-flaggers are onto me! /s
3 mahatma_arium_nine 2016-12-05
Problem is most people lack the prerequisite Veda (knowledge) that would allow them to comprehend the real purpose of what these Luciferians/Satanists are trying to accomplish with ritual perversion and murder.
They are performing ritual sacrifices to asuras (demonic entities) in order to gain material benefits and power.
Unless one understands the original religion, their activities make no sense.
1 SaxonWitch 2016-12-05
Only that they are not 'proper' Satanists. they are 'biblical Satanists' and just aping medieval Satanists who did those rituals to mock christianity. They are spoiled morons. Any 'proper' Satanist wouldn't be seen dead performing those ridiculous rituals. But, your point is still valid, as these people may very well do these things for gain. And if they do [we know they are] then it isn't too far to also believe they need children for this purpose.
2 IceDagger316 2016-12-05
Depends on your definition of both Satan and "proper" Satanists.
If you're talking about the Antone LeVay created "Satanism", that is just secular humanism that uses the archetype of Satan as an inspiration. Nothing truly Satanic about it. These type of Satanists would not participate in occult rituals, as they do not believe in Satan as an entity.
Satanic deification (worshiping Satan as a god..."devil worship" if you will) however, is a different matter altogether. These type of people believe in the actual entity/power of Satan and worship him as Christians do God/Jesus. Occult rituals are common, if not outright required, for this type of religion.
I would say it's easiest to assume that what most people label "Satanic" is actually worship of another, older evil deity, such as Moloch (the bull god...not the owl Minerva). Aleister Crowley, for example, was labeled as Satanic, but was not, in fact a Satanist. To deny that he meddled with some dark forces in his day, however, is lunacy. But to the average person, hearing that something is "Satanic" is a much easier filter to go through than having to explain who and what "Set" is.
1 SaxonWitch 2016-12-05
So you we are in total agreement. I said the same thing you have just described about Alister Crowley. All I said is that these idiot people probably meddle with 'something' and that calling it Satanic is easier to feed to the masses.
However I fear that the 'masses' are usually pretty uninformed and some religious folk will see it as literal. Which means that some Satanism, which is less violent and stupid will be put into the same drawer. Just like people hear the word 'drugs' and put dope and Heroin into one. This brings with it a lot of hassle for those liking one and not the other.
3 catsandpancakes 2016-12-05
Conspiracy theories have been floating around since...forever. I have never seen such a doubling down on anything like this. 9/11 Truthers have been around for years, Sandy Hook had a conspiracy, but only fake news touches the Clinton camp!! I can guarantee you if this was involving Donald Trump, msm would be all over it. You know, like those rape allegations...which should rightfully have been pursued if there was any reason to be suspect.
There have been so many elites involved with this sort of stuff. The Franklin coverup incident, Jimmy Savile, Epstein, Hastert (both of which had regular contact with the Podestas), Freud, Weiner in contact with underage girls, Norway elites just had a huge pedo bust, there was a call-boy investigation in the 80s. Is it really SO difficult to imagine this is possible? Pair that with:
*Using existent code words for child porn in otherwise nonsensical emails. Who wants to fly in $65,000 worth of pizza/dogs to the Whitehouse? Would I do better playing dominoes on cheese or pasta?
*At the VERY least, incredibly distasteful social media postings. Who in their right mind uses #hotard next to a baby?? With picture comments including "Would like a Haitian special, extra cheese." It's not funny, and talk about shitty marketing for a supposedly family friendly business. This is the "49th most powerful man in DC" and a pizza shop owner who has been to the Whtehouse 5 times. Oh, and has a profile picture of Antinous.
*Paintings of scantily-clad teenagers in Tony Podesta's home and stuffed animals in his bedroom when he has no children. And a continued relationship with Dennis Hastert.
*Hillary Clinton taking personal interest in Laura Silsby for child trafficking in Haiti. Oh, and her legal advisor Jorge Puello is under investigation for sex trafficking.
*Monica Peterson being killed while investigating the Clintons and human trafficking in Haiti.
All of these bits of info, and more, on their own may be of no consequence, but together, I really don't think it's so crazy to investigate further.
Edit:Spelling
2 Zerwe 2016-12-05
well. i have this idea that im kinda scared of. what if.. they in fact created this scandal on purpose, but rather for blackmailing some important people into WW3?
2 zarniwoot 2016-12-05
Why would they do this? For control and power of course. That is why they faked the whole fucking thing and people STILL can't see this? WTF? You have been played like a fiddle.
2 Surfdetective 2016-12-05
In Rome everyone was a paedophile,you guys should be looking into little ceasars.
3 dogcatfishlion 2016-12-05
I think he came here just to make the little ceasars joke. Nobody freak out.
1 SaxonWitch 2016-12-05
What has that got to do with anything? The ancient Rome doesn't exist any longer, you are not even funny and just because something may have happened a thousand years ago doesn't mean it is ok to do nowadays. Completely illogical point to make.
1 Surfdetective 2016-12-05
Figure it out.
0 SaxonWitch 2016-12-05
I tried and came up that you mean at some point in time [about 1000 years ago] a lot of people MAY have accepted paedophilia and therefore you made a joke to check out 'little caesars' which I assume [being European] is some restaurant. Basically you are saying that we take any detail and spin it out of proportion.
I get it, but it still makes no sense, neither as a joke nor a put down of everybody who has actually researched pzz-gate. I am all for witty comments but this one missed badly because it's incomparable in any way, shape or form.
1 Surfdetective 2016-12-05
It's just a coincidence snowflake,dont go cry on Twitter like your idol.
1 SaxonWitch 2016-12-05
What is a 'coincidence-snowflake'??? And who is my idol? The mind boggles.
2 Booradley95 2016-12-05
Wait but what if it actually is fake?
Edit: as in they could be propagating these fake stories to give us something to chase, anything can be a false flag. Or they perhaps want to use pizzagate to discredit the conspiracy community as a whole.
2 geek_loser 2016-12-05
Although I go on /r/the_donald and seen a few posts about it I never bought into it. And of course I've never went to /r/pizzagate when it was around. I've also never been to this sub, until today. This Streisand effect is amazing.
Edit: I still don't exactly believe in it, but with the threat of reddit trying to curtail 'false news' it at least got me interested in it.
2 donaldtroll 2016-12-05
the pizzagate is still alive and well on voat though!
(voat is similar to reddit but with no censorship)
1 Charles__Martel 2016-12-05
Now that you had one of your own to investigate the restaurant can you guys drop it. Go back to cute things like the earth is flat or the moon landings were fake.
Your craziness is going to get someone hurt.
1 illumininja 2016-12-05
What makes you think this is "one of our own"? That's the dismissive attitude that potentially protects perpetrators while discrediting an entire group of people trying to find the truth. Pedophile rings at high levels of government happen all over the world, and have throughout history. Pretending that it is too outrageous to happen here is actually outrageous. Don't shame the people who are HARMLESSLY investigating this because some moron runs into a high profile location with a gun (which, in and of itself is weird because who does that in broad daylight ans gets arrested before doing any damage? If the guy were serious he would burn the place down, hunt alefantis down in the night and shoot him in the dick, or actually kill people before getting arrested... he got nothing done in the 3-5 minutes and the alleged customers capture nothing on video)
3 cutol 2016-12-05
There is no evidence of wrongdoing by anyone targeted. There are no perpetrators.
There is nothing harmless about conducting witchhunt with zero evidence of wrongdoing, zero evidence of harm. Alefantis et al. are having their lives fucked up with zero evidence to back it up. Pizzagate is very harmful to innocent people, not at all harmful to elite pedophiles and their ringmasters, who must be laughing at this shit. Pizzagate is amateur hour fantasy idiocy.
0 illumininja 2016-12-05
You clearly didn't read my comment thoroughly. The majority of people investigating are not causing harm. Period. Just cause some morons take matters into their own hands does not mean that people who are researching harmlessly are in any way responsible. Notice i said potential perpetrators. For you to claim that there definitely are no perpetrators is just as ignorant if one were to claim that there definitely are. We are in the investigative phase... And the fact that there is only circumstantial evidence and isn't hard evidence at the moment does not mean that hard evidence may not be out there, and it absolutely does not mean that people should refrain from digging up clues IN A SAFE WAY. You are assuming these people are innocent, and you are assuming that people are ruining lives for no reasin. In fact, you're assuming more shit than most of the people who are ACTUALLY just trying to find evidence. Way to defend someone accused of being dismissive by being more dismissive...
3 cutol 2016-12-05
Every person who calls Podesta or Alefantis a pedophile is causing harm. To label someone a pedophile with zero evidence of wrongdoing is irresponsible and reckless. Pizzagate peeps know for a fact that there is zero evidence of wrongdoing, so to label people pedophiles based on supposition alone is more than just reckless, it is truly a dick move.
People who intentionally spread lies about pedophilia are monsters, they are assholes.
Innocent until proven guilty. None of them has been proven guilty, none of them has been shown to have done anything wrong, none of them has been shown to have ever harmed a child.
There is no proof of a crime, how can there be perpetrators?
Investigative phase? If you start with the assumption that secret code words are being used, you should investigate where those code words came from, and investigate the validity of them. Since the whole investigate is based on those 4chan code words, that is where the investigate should start. Where did those code words come from? Pulled out the air? Are those code words valid? Why? How?
Everything rests on those code words being taken at face value, despite that they seem to have no validity whatsoever.
1 illumininja 2016-12-05
Are you going to ignore every point i make? NOT EVERYONE IS LABELING THEM PEDOPHILES AND "INTENTIONALLY SPREADING LIES". Some people are genuinely trying to connect the dots to what is inarguably a compilation of really weird and slightly alarming facts.
I just said that not everyone is assuming these things about alefantis and podesta and whomever, sure a few are, but you are pretending everyone does. You, yourself, are also assuming that these people are innocent and people are deliberately spreading disinformation and lies about them. I'm not saying we shouldn't assume their innocence, what I'm saying is that you're being completely hypocritical and fallacious in your claims. It's a pretty terrible thing for people to be labeled pedophiles or rapists when they aren't, i completely agree. The point I'm making is that being completely dismissive is oftentimes more harmful to people than probing into potential crimes.
Most of the people looking into it are not trying to ruin anyone's lives, they are trying to make sure that lives are not being ruined in the future by turning a blind eye to potential criminal activities, the likes of which take place all throughout history and all over the world. Painting all the investigators as scumbags and crazies is as ignorant as claiming that alefantis is a pedo. Not as damaging, but just as ignorant. How do you not see that point? I'm agreeing with your point that these few morons are destructive and doing more harm than good. Repeating that point doesn't make the rest of your arguments any more sound.
1 Wildinvalid 2016-12-05
"we have worked so damn hard on these underground tunnels and murder rooms we just can't cement it again!"
1 Hith_Ransir 2016-12-05
It is absolutely real. When there isn't proof enough to exonerate or condemn (beyond circumstantial stuff), yet the media has already gone into debunk mode, saying pizza gate is definitively false, you know something is up. Real journalism would say that the allegations are just that, alleged, but they won't even go there. No, to MSM, the case is somehow already magically closed, because big brother says so. MSM response totally confirms it to me, the bias is so fucking palpable.
1 ovamopice 2016-12-05
Huh interesting, anyone notice the J'aime Lenfant shirt on comet pizza guy pic with two boxer short guys
1 fuckthebbc 2016-12-05
Ying Yang , its a fundamental principle of all life, trust. Consider, a system where everything is illegal, how if everyone wants to do a thing, can you prevent a thing happening. Answer ; you let a fraction do the thing and deny it. It's the only way. Like the puzzle of a guy in a boat with the wolf and the sheep. Except, whoever, ends up in the boat, with the little lambs, turns into a wolf, its human nature, nothing else. The alternative could be much worse.
1 Nyx666 2016-12-05
Long time lurker here. Feeling brave today to add something that's been bugging me. During Clinton's campaign, the moment MSM learned they lost control of being the primary source of information is when they began to push Russian propaganda. Clinton even mentioned it during a debate. It felt like they were grabbing on to a long lost fear tactic that once worked to persuade the masses. Election night was bizarre. Especially watching these reporters back peddle on this narrative they pushed so hard by claiming there were closet trump supporters and "uneducated white males" who were to blame for them being completely wrong. Shortly after, this bullshit saga of "fake news" is being paraded around to discredit anything that doesn't fit some sort of an agenda.
I'm still on the fence with pizza gate, and I firmly believe the "fake news" agenda isn't a result of the pizza conspiracy. Fake news narrative is a result of losing control of information. An informed society is a society that cannot be controlled. Why do the elites need to control over 300 million humans in America? Europe? Middle East? Why? Then we have pizza gate. I see both sides, some of the excitement does leave a bad taste for critical thinking. And the rebuttal is also distasteful, yet there are valid questions on both sides that should be examined. I won't discredit pizza gate entirely because there have been pedophilia with priests, Boy Scouts, and Hollywood inside America. So it's not completely far fetched that our tiny little bag of flesh politicians could behave so disgustingly.
Whether pizza gate is true or not, I have a very strong suspicion it is nothing compared to what is really being kept in the dark. I think the situation here upon earth is in much more danger than pen whipping psychopaths peddling around with children. Not saying I would turn a blind eye to it, but I think there's an ulterior agenda that will make pizza gate look like a bounced check.
0 cm18 2016-12-05
When did WikiLeaks leak the Podesta emails? Was it after or before October 16th? If it was after, could it be that the leaked emails were false and all the crap since then was a setup for the conspiracy community?
0 NaughtyHealer 2016-12-05
Yes, it is a possibility. Honestly I don't really believe that it is possible to 'outsmart' a ruling elite that have been successfully ruling for hundreds and hundreds of years if you really dig into it. I mean they really have it down pat by this point. I also believe (however debbie downer it is) that if the ruling elite do have some diabolical plan for the country, then they are going to be able to pull it off.
Which is why I think it is important to just do the right thing since that may be all we have in the end. And in my personal opinion, the right thing is to look into something if it seems suspicious and there is the possibility of child victims. This doesn't mean violence, defamation, etc but just look into it and share one's findings. Be able to feel right with yourself when all is said and done.
I mean, if the ruling elite want to roll out more censorship laws, then they are probably going to get more censorship laws. If they set a 'trap' and it doesn't work, that's not going to stop them. I mean if you really think about it and how powerful these people are, whether or not we research something has almost no bearing whatsoever on their own intended outcome.
0 Stjerneklar 2016-12-05
not seeing what would make you think that, mostly because you dont explain it.
i see all of this pizzagate shit as a great distraction, while all you guys chase a pizza place the important shit is happening somewhere else.
no evidence i have seen on pizzagate has been more than speculation, yet some people seem to have found their gospel... based on an unsourced /pol/ post and using codewords to decode leaked emails(hint: if you take words as meaning something else, you can make a lot of shit work).
its all stretches, even if this shooter is an actor, its a huge stretch to say that its a false flag because of it.
i cant change your beliefs, but ill keep expressing my belief that you are all victims of a psyop.
1 Glassclose 2016-12-05
I love when people say this
"Oh it's all just nothing, y'all just seeing shit that ain't there, I've researched it, it's Good Everyone, Just move Along!"
right. It's a psyop.. right. sure. okay. whatever you say, you know right, I mean when you know you know Right? right.
16 AlpharettaCarini 2016-12-05
if god is alive then god is a fuckface
7 The_ChaplainOC 2016-12-05
It's evidence that someone who doesn't usually work on a Saturday made sure the camera was moved and the view was blocked.
3 SnoopySuited 2016-12-05
Please share when you find an image.
What do you think the comparison would prove?
3 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
Never said they give "fake blessing". People die and then end up in the Astral Holding Area which is a "Fake Heaven". The "Fake Heaven" actually sucks big time. Humans created this Simulation as a playground. They forgot their true nature and eventually believed the Simulation and actual "matter" was real. The Simulation was then hijacked by the "Archons" who are Astral Parasites. The God you pray to does not exist. Time to grow up and understand; This universe is Fake. You live inside a Computer Simulation. Everything is possible in the expanding real universe. But currently you are not in the "Real Universe". Praying to a fictional god sends energy to the controllers of this Simulation; The Archons. Once again; This is a Closed Simulation. It does not expand. There are set rules and massive limitations programmed into the Matrix.
1 SteelPicker 2016-12-05
I definitely see what you mean there, actually I think I agree with all of that
1 crecon 2016-12-05
Cheers,
5 2-DRY-4-2-LONG 2016-12-05
Of course there is no proof you fool
1 dogcatfishlion 2016-12-05
This. A million times this. Spirituality != religion.
3 astralrocker2001 2016-12-05
Hi. Here is a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFas8-SKXTQ Also here is an article http://humansarefree.com/2014/11/david-icke-exposes-archon-conspiracy.html
1 RerollFFS 2016-12-05
This is one of them replies, "Does the pizza offer include those of us who can’t make the meeting because we’re out here editing? ‘Cos if so, count me in." Sure doesn't seem like it's about food.
1 SaxonWitch 2016-12-05
What is a 'coincidence-snowflake'??? And who is my idol? The mind boggles.