I have never, ever seen a story so aggressively opposed. And there have been some damning stories...
This is fucked up, folks. They are literally freaking out right now.
*edit: They've even so kindly volunteered to provide us with examples in reply to this comment! See below for arrogance not seen on this level in /r/conspiracy since election night.
honestly, and they're pushing the "fake news" story so hard, through so many platforms. It's a conglomerate effort using a single buzzphrase. Even TV hosts like Ellen are spreading the warning, "make sure you only trust mainstream media and watch out for fake news!". It's getting a bit worrying.
The longer this incubates without progressing anywhere the longer they will have to implement their draconian damage control tactics. I think it's a race against time. Big Brother is anxious to embrace us all.
Theres scores of flicker accounts that are full of soft pedophilia, pizza references, and shots of comet ping pong. I dont even know how you can deny it at this point.
Because you are reading it from sites known for fake news. If you read it from something reputable or trusted all your friends who call you a conspiracy theorist you wouldn't be so misinformed. /s
No, that's a small, small piece. It's easy to tell the people here who just want to shit on pizzagate, because every time someone puts a piece of evidence in their comment you scream "that's all you have??".
There are at least a half dozen write ups that summarizes pizzagate, but the shills and brigaders avoid those threads.
I did my own deep dive into that (you and I have very different definitions of "soft pedophilia." Also, I don't know if you are aware of how "in" pizza fetishization is?
Here is my major question. This whole thing is related to Haiti, right? So how come none of the images you cite, of these children being "trained" and "subjugated", are Haitian?
The question is, how would we go about spreading it to the general public effectively? I understand that posting it across the internet is a start, but how would we counter against mass media, some of the viewers have so much trust in the networks. There has to be a way to reach the "casual" demographic.
I think we need help beyond anonymous reddit posters. We need someone with resources to help. Alternative media was the first step towards this, but now it's paying the price for it.
I read another comment mentioning tactics that "they" use to increase the likelyhood of smearing any potential evidence or leads. Maybe there is a way to counteract those tactics?
More importantly, find a way to spread the info in ways the "normies" can understand. As long as they see it, whether they believe it or not, they will at least know about it.
There is no way. This is the only way. Look at GamerGate, Brexit, Trump... It seems this way is reliable too according to those past events. Normies are not needed. Look at Jonestown. Only 1 detective, or politician, or reporter is enough. Theres no need for casuals.
I haven't involved myself in pizza gate at all. Or researched much of anything. But when I read the "The Washington Post" article about the pizza gate "shooter", and saw it try to mix in the buzzword "fake news" when it didn't really make sense, I saw how hard they're pushing that narrative. They are pushing fake news really hard...
You have to keep in mind how lazy/apathetic the average person is regarding this. I am literally the only person in my family (my family on my dad's side alone is 20+) that has done any kind of research at all. Mention pizzagate and I've been met with blank stares and/or scoffs about not believing in such non-sense. I asked one family member what kind of research they had done and was not at all surprised to hear that they had done zero research and simply took what CNN told them at face value. This is what scares me more than anything. People just seem to not give a fuck at all about this. The shiny TV tells them it's "fake" so it's "fake". Fuck doing research or having your own original thought process though right?
I think its also because they just can't grasp how unspeakably evil this whole thing is. Rather than facing the diabolical truth, they shut it out and use the 'CNN told me' argument so they atleast have someone that tells them its all good.
For example, my girlfriend isn't as tv-blanked as most people and she believes me when I say there is something horrible going on, but she doesn't want to think about it or talk about it or read about it. I've tried to show her dozens of summaries but she just refuses because she says she can't handle it. It makes her sick to her stomach to think about it.
I agree that the whole thing is so evil and that's why people won't accept it.
Take my uncle. He is over 40 and is hellbent that pizzagate isn't real. He said I was insulting his intelligence to even suggest it was happening. I don't understand what is so outlandish about these theories though, I really don't, not to the point of vehemently denying it even though I've given him all the evidence we have.
The worst part is, he believes pizzagate isn't real because "half of what you read on the internet is lies" and he believes the MSM is not lying. "Why would RT lie to me?" he says. He actually believes the fucking BBC over hard working research people have done. I guess there's no hope for him. I actually can't argue with him anymore it makes me too mad.
Dude same i can tell my girlfriend believes deep down that what im saying could be true but its too horrifying for her to think about and she blocks it out/tells me its upsetting her and wants me to stop talking about it.
I've tried to show her dozens of summaries but she just refuses because she says she can't handle it. It makes her sick to her stomach to think about it.
tell her to buck up and fight it. that weak mentality is no good for anyone
Its tough man, fooling someone is easy but convincing someone they have been fooled (especially about something as horrifying and batshit insane sounding as this) is very difficult
the guy didn't even shoot. The one that had a shotgun....oh wait a rifle.....wait two rifles.....wait no it was a shotgun.....hey wasn't he also an actor? Nah fuck it! Just another crazy loon!
Seriously thank you. Nobody in the threads that reach r/all or blindly attacking pizza gate have likely bothered to spend hours looking through the sources and links and other related scandals.
Now that the r/pizzagate was banned people don't have that resource and will entirely learn about it through the mainstream media. Then proceed to wave it off as incredulous and not research it properly.
evil nazi's yadayada, conjures images of "concentration camps" and decades of knee-jerk programming via schindlers list, raiders of the lost ark, american history x and just about every tv show ever to feature a bad guy etc. etc.
Think about how evil "fake news" is...Even if people don't understand how dangerous it is at the most basic level, the term itself is a mindfuck. The name itself creates division, it's fucked.
The perp in question has a close relationship with the founder of Media Matters. That org literally states its goal as "correcting conservative misinformation in the US media".
They already have funded organizations dedicated to battling any information they want to battle. Of course there's aggressive opposition. It's not even hidden
If there is a connection please share it. That would be the smoking gun proving this as a false flag. If you dont have proof DONT spread lies it makes this sub look retarded
I think you might have misunderstood. When I said "the perp" I meant the owner of the pizza place, not the gunman.
There was a picture of the founder of Media Matters on Mr. Comet's Instagram account, and here's an article confirming they've been in a relationship.
So the guy that is at the center of the pizzagate accusations has direct connections to funded organizations that are dedicated to "battling conservative misinformation". No wonder MSM is defending him so much lately.
I should have specified. Just trying to remind people of that common knowledge, didn't mean for it to be misconstrued. I have no idea if the gunman was really a "plant" or not, but I know MM and Comet will use the story to play the victim and discredit the allegations against them.
I think you might have misunderstood. When I said "the perp" I meant the owner of the pizza place, not the gunman.
Oh, so this is like the double-good speak of Orwell's 1984. The guy with the gun isn't referred to as a perp or a criminal, but the guy whom there's no actual evidence of committing a crime is the perp. Ok.
These shills and their aggressive digging tactics have been active on reddit for years. A few years, and a couple hundred accounts, ago; some twat was brigading every comment i made, in every sub, with a link to a confession bear I had submitted over a year ago. The guy didn't stop until I messaged the admins. I've been more careful since, but just this week another shill used a shitpost i made as a means of discrediting me. It's laughable at first. Then i remembered these fucks do this for a living.
Your a special snowflake to think that people are getting paid to follow you and harass you. This sub makes me laugh sometimes. People need to stay on topic, not everyone that disagrees with you is a paid shill lol I swear people this is why people tune you out when you have important things to teach and show.
Can you read the OP before you shitpost? This post is literally about shillfags. When I share my story of being harassed by a shillfag, can you guess what happened? Some loser had the extra chromosomes necessary to go full retard and call me out for derailing this post when in fact it was that slowpoke that was derailing the post with one of the most basic overused shill tactics in the shillbuk of message board faggotry.
Nor do they realize how easy they are to spot. It's hilarious, it's literally like they speak another language. Just theirs is composed of non-factual talking points.
There are ways of properly addressing bogus theories - that is debunking the claims that they make. Ignoring the claims, on the other hand, and instead attacking those who believe them, is an obvious defense tactic. You can call the MSM 'skeptics' if you want, but anyone with a brain can see it's an organized disinfo campaign.
How can these claims be debunked when they are so outrageous and the evidence offered for them is wildly speculative and is supported primarily by assumptions of ill intent? How can it be debunked when anyone skeptical is dismissed as a CTR/shill//pedo/disinfo agent?
anyone with a brain can see it's an organized disinfo campaign.
A much more likely explanation is that
1) the election is over, and /r/thedonald and /r/hillaryforprison (and many other subs) now have an enormous mobilized and energetic base with nothing to do.
2) so they've focused on pizzagate, because it still (in theory) would harm their opponents, as well as being justice porn/vigilante vindication.
3) now this stuff is hitting /r/all night and day, exposing it to a huge amount of people who are skeptical or think it's outright nonsense clogging up reddit, not to mention subs like /r/wikileaks.
You may not be a shill, you may just be misunderstanding.
You're calling all of the pizzagate claims outrageous? Do you realize people have been suspiciously dying while looking into this (pre-pizzagate)? Do you realize there are direct ties between child trafficking in Haiti and the Clinton Foundation? Etc....
And the organized disinfo campaign refers to MSM. Mainstream media. If you don't see it, you have more to learn than I can help you with.
Yes, they are outrageous. A satanic pedophilia conspiracy is an outrageous claim that requires extremely clear and convincing evidence.
You may not be a shill, you may just be misunderstanding.
Orrrr I've looked at the evidence offered and found it to be lacking? And what I find even more distressing is that dissenting opinion is heavily downvoted, if not outright banned. How can I be expected to debunk anything when you say:
If you don't see it, you have more to learn than I can help you with.
Which is basically implying I'm willfully ignorant or stupid.
If you don't see it, you have more to learn than I can help you with
I'm talking only about the MSM campaign that you've already admitted to be ignorant of. I'm not calling you stupid.
And it's not as outrageous a claim as you seem to think it is. There are current examples in other parts of the world. It's going on all around us. And it's beginning to be dug up.
Lol dude... Being ignorant of something means you don't know it. It's not a 'personal attack', it's another way of saying 'uninformed'.
If you personally think that whether someone is informed on a subject or not affects their level of intellect, that's your problem. I disagree. We're all constantly learning.
See, you are the one who doesn't understand that you were fed a story, you fell for it, now the MSM is puuling the rug out from under your feet, and you are sitting here protesting it, therefore perpetuating the "fake news" trope they will use to censor you. They only wanted to be allowed to censor you, that is all. They got it, because PG people can't step back and realize what BigSphinx was saying, that you have no evidence, and you are just playing a game someone made up for you.
OK. So you fell for it, I am sorry. Now you are so sure you are willing to do the work of those trying to censor us. Brilliant.
You think fake news was not designed at least partially to censor PG related discussion? Or that they need more? They even passed a law already. We are toast.
They are not afraid of pizzagate. They just are liberals and don't like Trumpers. That is the game here. Next election won't go the same way, because groups like CTR are smart. They have set up the control mechanism necessary to censor non-liberal discussions. The MSM is owned by liberals, as is hollywood. The entire propaganda arm of the US government is essentially against PG and conservatives in general.
You need factual evidence of Soros but not of pizzagate? Just think about it, like a chess game. What is the end result of this? Who stands to gain? You think pizzagate is going to get people in power arrested and not the citizens spreading the information? Is that how you think the world works? You need to think more conspiratorially.
You are uninformed. You compare pizzagate to a baseless accusation and refuse to address the huge amount of circumstantial evidence. There is enough evidence to warrant an official investigation.
I would believe your little group of morons if you actually did some research into those "well-known pedophile code words". Not to mention there are 150 mentions of pizza in the emails and like 99.9% are of completely innocuous pizza-party related organizing. Love it when idiots get a big head if a bunch of other idiots are agreeing with them based on lack of evidence.
check his comment history. l ain't saying he is being paid to distract and obfuscate certain specific lines of reasoning. but if not, he is an ardent hobbyist at it.
So lets just ignore the possibility of little kids getting raped and tortured because there is no literal "Hi my name is John Podesta and i eat babies for real" smoking gun, despite the hundreds of bizzare facts and coincidences we have uncovered over the last few months. Not to mention, its outrageous to say something that has been proven to have happened before (franklin credit union case for example, recent busts in canada, belgium, norway) is infact outrageous.
I dunno, check again, we should maybe send a guy over with an assault rifle just in case.
elite suspects pertaining to this investigation
No one is a suspect here and there is no investigation (u watch too much CSI bb), just a ridiculous Internet witch hunt orchestrated by some paranoid motherfuckers.
Outrageous as in serious and extraordinary, and requiring more than wild speculation as proof of anything suspicious. Saville was investigated based on actual allegations by hundreds of victims -- when you have a bunch of victims claiming they were assaulted at Comet Ping Pong, let me know.
Just because you call something "wild" doesnt necessarily make it so. Id love to go piece by piece with you on the evidence I find concerning to see if you can debunk them. I really hope you can.
I am totally open-minded on this. I thought it was outrageous at first too, but the amount of "wild speculation" as you call it is so numerous, and some of it so astonishing, that I have to at least look into it given the consequences if its true.
You realize there was a long time before victims ever came out while Saville was still abusing children right? Just because we havent reached that time yet doesnt mean it isnt existing. Again, I totally agree there is not ANYWHERE CLOSE to enough evidence to even think about indicting someone or something like that. I just think theres enough to get a few answers from people. Really dont think its asking that much.
Just because you call something "wild" doesnt necessarily make it so
Accusing an otherwise innocent person of being part of an international satanic child trafficking cult is a wild claim. The speculation is based on conflating together disparate piece of unrelated information, out of context, assuming evil and criminal intent, and arriving at a vague conclusion. Any person would be shocked by being on the receiving end of such accusations. I think I can say without a doubt they are wild claims; wouldn't the gravity of such crimes be so?
You realize there was a long time before victims ever came out while Saville was still abusing children right?
There were allegedly hundreds of allegations made over 50+ years.
Jimmy Saville's crimes are not evidence of Comet Ping Pong being a bedrock of satanic pedophila. And Saville was not part of a "ring".
Yes, they are outrageous. A satanic pedophilia conspiracy is an outrageous claim
Wow. That's bullshit and you know it. People have theorised on Bohemian Grove, elite paedophile rings and child sacrifice for decades. It's not outrageous to think something has finally come to light. You're talking out your arse.
And I'm not going to argue with you. I've read a lot of responses on this sub that claim outrageous evidence and don't provide any worthwhile alternative interpretations discrediting it; just excuses. The counter arguments are weaker than the arguments and yet suddenly /r/conspiracy has become incredibly close-minded and impartial to what seems like the elements to a glaring conspiracy. It's not the prerogative of a critical thinker to take hard stances when evidence is still pouring in.
No, this particular conspiracy "theory" is bullshit and I know it.
People have theorised on Bohemian Grove, elite paedophile rings and child sacrifice for decades.
And yet how much has come to light? It is an outrageous claim, just like the "satanic ritual abuse" hoaxes of the 1980s -- which were totally debunked and never had a shred of actual evidence.
Hi. I wrote this last night when I couldn't sleep. It's my personal debunking, as someone deeply familiar with many of the symbols you guys are upset about.
The direct ties to child trafficking and the clinton foundation do not feel direct to me. I can't see how association and/or legal guidance is a "direct tie" or even consigning. But even more, the tie between child trafficking and a hipster pizza shop is a leap that I've been given 0 evidence, knowing Marina and the photos on Instagram, to make.
Okay, I see your view is skewed by your personal tastes, but I thank you for the link.
BTW my true concern isn't comet ping pong - if you're a journalist as you say you should have no trouble learning that child trafficking and pedophilia is, in fact, a very real issue American and worldwide issue that goes much deeper than a single pizza place in DC. Pizzagate has traction and I hope it helps to uncover this.
I 100% agree with you. Child trafficking is real. Sex trafficking is extremely real.
Thinking pizzagate is problematic does not negate a belief in child trafficking. My former roommate just moved to Florida to get her law degree and use her Spanish fluency to advocate for victims of sex trafficking. She would take umbrage at the work many people have done in this space has somehow been overlooked because of MSM, and that there aren't people who haven't dedicated entire careers to "uncovering" human trafficking.
I 100% agree with you. Child trafficking is real. Sex trafficking is extremely real.
Well my view is that pizzagate is doing no harm by bringing this to more people's attention.
If the comet ping pong people are innocent, that's great, there are simple ways they could have proven that by now. Instead, they're raising more and more suspicion.
To give you an example of what I mean
Instead of saying "hey look, people, of course we don't hurt children, come take a look around our facility and then eat some pizza", they have the NYT and some of the biggest news publications in the country simultaneously start defending a pizza shop (just one of about 70,000 pizza shops in the US). Does this raise any red flags with you as a journalist?
No harm? People are harassing the business and now going there with guns all over a controversy that lacks substantial critical thinking.
I'm a scientist. If I treated my science like this level of investigation, I'd be torn apart. Shit, I've been torn apart for less. There is zero investigative rigor. Simple Google searches have been sufficient to discredit the wild claims made supporting pizzagate.
The handkerchief code for white. The only code that suggests pedophilia according to the picture they give. The rest of the codes come from Wikipedia, but Wikipedia doesn't show a code for white, so I looked it up. There doesn't seem to be a set code for white, but the two common codes are vanilla sex and masturbation.
The Antinous statue in Alefantis' twitter profile picture. They ruled that it is related to pedestry, therefore pedophilia. Despite how common pederasty was in the Greek empire, I dug further into the Wikipedia article used to find out the relationship to pederasty. Turns out, Antinous was popularized in western culture that associated him with homosexuality by people like Oscar Wilde. Alefantis is gay, so it is of no surprise he'd use homosexual icons to represent his sexual orientation.
Many other concerns really revolve around the gay community working at Pizza Comet. A gay man poses with a pizza on his crotch and some honey. A photoshopped image of the restaurant with with gay overtones. Things like that.
References to satanic ritual abuse. We are taught about the 80s hysteria over satanic ritual abuse in intro to psychology. Turns out psychologists back then thought they could bring out repressed memories, and their clients would talk about SRA and sexual abuse by their parents, too. Turned out repressed memory recall was a product of bad science, and people were generating false memories that tore families apart. This opened up new areas of research in psychology regarding how false memories, and is still a problem regarding police confessions where innocent people honestly believed they committed crimes later found to be not guilty of.
Criticism of art preferences. Morbid art is appreciated by many. The morbid is a fascinating thing. Pizzagate started on 4chan, ironically, a bastion of morbid jokes and pictures. My favorite pice if "evidence" are the pictures of band posters. These band posters are made in retro style that harkens back to the psychedelic music scene if the 60s and 70s. Even Pink Floyd had morbid psychedelic posters. Fascination with morbid art and judging these people for their art tastes is akin to McCarthyism. Any tenuous link to SRA is considered solid evidence to the pizzagate community.
Portugal abduction? Happened in 2007. First line of evidence? A Podesta email of a trip tout Portugal in 2015. Second line of evidence? Police sketches of two men who look very close to the Podesta brothers. Problem? The two very different looking sketches were made from a couple describing the same event. The couple saw the event together at the same time and were describing one man of whom, they said, looked like a typical Portuguese man. If you look up average Portuguese man, you'll find a composite image made of several Portuguese men that resemble the police sketches.
Pictures of kids? I'm in my 30s, my FB wall is filled with pictures of kids from parents. Nothing new, nothing special.
Jeffery Dahmer like statue? It represents a man falling, hence it is hung up with arms and legs outwards rather than it being displayed in the floor with folded arms and legs like one of Dahmer's victims.
Pedophile code images? Common geometric shapes probably adopted from pop culture references. The heart? Not only does it look nothing like the picture from the website they link, it originated with the logo used for Good Humor ice cream (the identical heart).
References to pizza scattered in the emails? Well, shit, I eat a lot of pizza. So does any department at universities for get togethers and meetings. You'll find several references to pizza in my academic emails. Cheese pizza (CP) to child porn started out as a 4chan joke before pizzagate was ever a thing.
My favorite is the TMNT pizza picture posted by Alefantis. The damning part were two comments left on the post. One guy whose username is drnwo, another conspiracy theory reference, the other had "kek" in his username and a subtle reference to pepe if you check his odd references. Clearly 4channers "touching the poop" as we call it when a person under Internet criticism is contacted by the members of the community doing the criticizing.
The list goes on, but pizzagate internet detectives have done very little to delve deeper into their own claims. It's a perfect example of sense out of nonsense. Bible code level rigor.
A child with hands taped on the table smiling to the camera suggests no fowl play to me. Seems like a joke about dealing with annoying kids, as they can often be.
Chickenlovers can mean anything. Maybe he really enjoyed that south park episode entitled "Chickenlover" and made a joke. That entire picture was full of nonsense editing for a desperate hunt for clues. They pointed to a necklace and called it a bracelet. Sex bracelets, for one thing, is an urban legend started when kids got big into the charity bracelet fad.
Back to chickenlover, their definition only exists in an obscure online slang dictionary likely entered after pizzagate became popular. The oldest slang definition is on urban dictionary, which makes no reference to pedophilia.
These things aren't evidence. They aren't suspicious. There are a number of innocuous alternative explanations. I'd have my ass handed to me if I presented my research in this format at my lab meetings.
Nobody should investigate pedophilia based on internet crusaders pouring over 20,000 e-mails and twitter posts until they found a narrative that supports their preconceived conclusions. That is not a scientific strategy.
And the thing is, a conclusion has already been drawn. Now I'm being accused of defending suspected pedophiles despite living in a country where people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. The evidence amounts to e-mails referencing pizza, a handkerchief, a geometric triangle pattern akin toverypopularpattern co-opted by pedophiles, a heart that resembles nothing like the pattern of a pedophilic symbol, originated with Good Humor ice cream, a commondesign for ping pong paddles used on a menu at a restaurant that, with enough squinting, resembles a pedophile pattern of a butterfly.
Furthering their agenda, pizzagate investigators linked Podestas and Pizza Comet to the satanic ritual abuse myth based on art preferences alone. A portuguese kidnapping of police sketches that look like the average Portuguese male. Handkerchief code for white that supposedly means something to do with juveniles, butevidencesuggestsotherwise.
Looking to deeply into photos to find incriminating evidence. The chickenlover photo called a NECKLASS and bracelet, then gave a color code for the bracelet even though sex bracelets is an urban legend. Creepy band posters that resemble posters of psychedelicrock of the 60s and 70s.
Not to mention when you have 20,000 Podesta e-mails a shitton of posts on twitter, you can find patterns of anything you want.
Yes, your character assassinations are TOTALLY justified. Just like everyone should be suspicious when a man walks with his child..
Same old story from you deniers, you select a few pieces of evidence to discredit, ignore the most damning, and accuse "pizzagaters" of working towards a pre-determined goal.
I don't give a shit if you don't 'believe' pizzagate. But why people feel the need to convince others not to investigate is frankly despicable.
I've hit the critical pieces of "evidence" with my posts. Regardless, I'm clearly open to evaluate any other pieces of evidence presented to me, but all I've been getting is complete dismissal for not accepting the current narrative of pizzagate.
But the dangerous thing about promoting pizzagate and claiming that these pieces of evidence are powerful is that it can ruin innocent lives. We have a knee-jerk reaction to pedophilia because it is deplorable, but we have to be careful of assuming guilt based on tenuous evidence. People blindly believe that pizzagate is absolutely real without a hint of skepticism.
I've done my part in providing alternate explanations for the major claims surrounding pizzagate. And I have been more than accommodating with regards to countering further arguments which you have presenting, like the chickenlover example. Instead of providing me further challenges, you threw your hands up and accuse me of defending suspected pedophiles, and that I selectively chosen pieces of evidence to criticize. Well, present me with more evidence and I'd be more than happy to look into them. What powerful pieces of evidence do you want me to examine that I have not already?
You're further welcome to individually discount everything that's been uncovered - because indeed there has not yet been a smoking gun - but your warning about the dangers of investigation are bizarre for two reasons. 1 - To use your own argument, what kind of harm would be done if the allegations were true but kept being denied? A lot more than what's happening to this guy & his pizza shop. and 2 - Why are you defending them on the internet, instead of them putting an end to this themselves? It would literally take 1 youtube video of someone being allowed to thoroughly search Comet Ping Pong for the existence of the denied basement, etc. And if it's a family-friendly establishment, there should really be no reason why not... Instead, millions of dollars are being spent in front of your eyes just to discredit the theory and attack the researchers... Apparently to defend one of 70,000 pizza shops in the US... Because obviously there's nothing to see.
That's why Andrew Brietbart was making the same accusations against Podesta five years ago before he died. That's why Monica Petersen's family says she was murdered in Haiti last month while investigating the Clinton Foundation & child trafficking. That's why Max Spiers' mom says he was investigating pedophiles when he died. That's why thousands of government employees were found to be pedophiles and nothing was done about it. That's why Hillary Clinton and the Pope himself are trying to silence it. Because there's nothing to see here.
While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".
People getting suspicious of 'a man walking with child' is the whole reason The Finders were discovered (and subsequently covered up)
Reading the report, an anonymous caller was concerned when two men wearing suits and ties were supervising 6 children who were "dirty and unkempt". It turned out they were covered in bug bites, incredibly dirty, not bathed for several days, and many of the children were not wearing underwear. Furthermore, their van clearly appeared like the 2 men and 6 children were living inside--they were arrested for child abuse charges and slapped with felonies upon further investigation. This goes far beyond a man simply walking with his child in public. Curiously, this is the only information I can find about the alleged Finders cult. How do we know if this a cover up? The link you sent me came from a site dedicated to Ted Gunderson, who earnestly believed in conspiracies range from the US being responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing, the US setting up the Oklahoma City bombing, Satanic Ritual Abuse, and the NWO.
what kind of harm would be done if the allegations were true but kept being denied?
Because the allegations have to be reasonable for an appropriate investigation. So far, nobody has found the allegations to be reasonable outside of niche internet communities. The real question is, why? Why do you think nobody from the local police to the FBI have bothered to investigate this issue if there is clear probable cause? I can surmise why, but let's get to that later.
It would literally take 1 youtube video of someone being allowed to thoroughly search Comet Ping Pong for the existence of the denied basement, etc. And if it's a family-friendly establishment, there should really be no reason why not...
This is akin to the dangerous argument, "why do you care about privacy if you have nothing to hide?" Edward Snowden, whom I have a great deal of respect for and yearn for a pardon, leaked classified documents regarding the US government's mass surveillance on US citizens. Why should we care about what the NSA does if we have nothing to hide?
Imagine you are driving on the interstate to go your favorite concert. You have no open container of alcohol in your car and no drugs. However, you borrowed a DVD from your friend and accidentally left it in the car, the DVD is Half Baked. The officer asks where you are going, you tell him a concert. He immediately notices the Half Baked DVD box and becomes suspicious that you may be harboring marijuana in your vehicle. He asks you if he can search your car. What do you say? If you say no. He bothers you further, and tells you, "if I just do a quick search of your vehicle, you can go about your day and make it to your concert in a timely manner without having to worry about parking. If you have nothing to hide, this will be quick." Would you agree to those terms?
millions of dollars are being spent ... to discredit the theory and attack the researchers
Can you verify that millions of dollars are being spent to discredit pizzagate and attack people partaking in the internet investigation?
Breitbart's death. His death really came at no surprise to anybody. Prior to his death, he already had a history with heart problems, having suffered a heart attack before. Additionally, further rumors came out to support that foul play was going on with the death of coroner Michael Cormier. I am anticipating that I would get this as a followup response. Cormier did not perform the autopsy of Breitbart.
Additionally, I cannot find anything stating that Petersen's family thinks she was murdered. Could you provide some references for me?
Max Spiers
Max Spiers was, indeed, an interesting character. His main interest seemed to be investigating UFOs and the paranormal. People have speculated that his research into UFOs is what led to his demise.
Max Spiers' death may not be surprising considering he had an opiate addiction, according to his mother. He struggled with addiction, although he may have been clean for a long period of time. But as anyone knows, when opiate users relapse, they often overdose by taking the dose they used to take prior to being clean. This may have been the case of what happened to my cousin with heroin, or it may have been more likely that my cousin died from badly cut heroin. Spiers suffered from headaches and vomited black blood, which sounds like intestinal bleeding. Someone posted on an opiates subreddit explaining the same issues of headaches and black vomit from three days of opiate tea use.Here is Spiers' last interview, he is clearly slurring his words and unable to speak articulately.
Was he investigating pedophilia? In the interview, I think he did mention something about child abuse, but I didn't listen to the entire thing because he's difficult to understand (like Ozzy Osbourne levels). The only other sources I could find on his investigations regarding pedophilia are from very sketchy tabloid websites like The Daily Mail and The Sun, and many websites I've never heard of before that clearly post similarly alarming content.
That's why Hillary Clinton and the Pope himself are trying to silence it. Because there's nothing to see here.
The Catholic church certainly has its sordid history with child sex abuse. But we're still speculating that Hillary Clinton is involved. Perhaps we could even argue that there is another conspiracy that all of these allegations exist to bring down the Clinton, and in conjunction, the Democratic bid for 2016. Republicans have been after the Clintons for decades, with the only thing that stuck to Bill Clinton was his affair with Monica Lewinsky, where he lied under oath. Hillary Clinton has been tagged with a number of scandals in an attempt to bring her down, which, ultimately, ended up wildly successful for Republicans. So perhaps this pizzagate scandal was engineered as high up as the upper echelons of the GOP, implanted in the hypervigilant /pol/ chan communities to rile up the alt- and new-right emerging base.
I wrote a lengthy post, it got flagged for one of my links not having an np, and shows up deleted. Hopefully I can repost it later or something, or you can check my post history, it should still show up there.
Wow, it's long and right off the bat you start by trying to just discredit my sources. Terrific...
Next is your privacy comment...well guess what, places that serve food to the public aren't exactly privy to the same kind as you enjoy.
Your critique of Brietbart is that his claims were unsubstantiated... really missing the point there that his claims are relevant to pizzagate. Not to mention they tie in David Brock (think CTR, Hillary Clinton)
Monica Petersen - you can do a search on this sub if you're interested. What her friends and family are saying is vastly different from the washington post. Funny you discredit former FBI agent Gunderson while most of your links are from MSM publications that are known liars.
Spiers - you couldn't understand him? how is that a relevant argument..
And Hillary is innocent because scandals have been made up about her in the past... ok
Well you sure seem eager to deny what's right in front of you. Most of your reasoning is laughable, to me. Feels like I'm wasting my time take care.
The idea is to get a critique of your claims. I'm providing plausible deniability. If you are right, this should serve to improve your ability to convey the facts in a way that they're undeniable. I don't think I'm going to win your mind, but I do hope to give you a sense of what it's like to think scientifically.
Next is your privacy comment...well guess what, places that serve food to the public aren't exactly privy to the same kind as you enjoy.
They are still private businesses with some expectation of privacy. There is nothing stopping you from going to Pizza Comet to the publicly accessible areas. Other areas are closed off to the public, often for good reasons for restaurants to avoid health code violations, and we have regulators to investigate those areas.
Your critique of Brietbart is that his claims were unsubstantiated... really missing the point there.. point is his claims were extremely relevant to pizzagate.
No, my critique of Breitbart came from the source, his twitter posts. I needed context, and he railed against the Podesta because of topics relevant at the time: Planned Parenthood and ACORN. That's why I included those additional twitter posts as links so you can see the context. Imagine arguing with a fundamentalist Christian over the meaning of a particular Bible verse they interpret. Is it not valid to criticize their interpretation based on the context of that verse?
Monica Petersen - you can do a search on this sub if you're interested. What her friends and family are saying is vastly different from the washington post.
It's not just the Washington Post, it's from her employer quoted in WashPost. I even provided a link to a post from her employer disparaging pizzagate for linking her untimely death to a political scandal.
However, I encourage you to link me directly to additional sources that provide me further information. This should be something you should have on hand or, at least, be able to quickly find. Google searches pull up a lot of noise from very sketchy websites. It's hard to dissect out the credible sources as a result.
Funny you discredit former FBI agent Gunderson while most of your links are from MSM publications that are known liars.
Gunderson is used as an argument from authority. Even the most respected, Nobel Prize winning scientists have believed in the craziest of things regardless of scientific evidence (factually incorrect things): Linus Pauling, James Watson, Kary Mullis, etc.
The MSM still has reliable information. The biggest issue I have with the MSM are in two major areas: 1. They're still in the hands of the CIA and 2. They're guilty of omission, rather than fabrication
My preferred source of news comes from The Intercept, but I like to keep my options broad.
Spiers - you couldn't understand him? how is that a relevant argument..
I provided a lot more information about Spiers other than his Ozzy Osbourne style of communication. I think the most parsimonious explanation of his death is simply due to his drug relapse. Opioids are nothing to fuck with, especially when you alternate between being clean and relapsing.
And Hillary is innocent because scandals have been made up about her in the past... ok
Innocent until proven guilty. She has been under trial how many times?
Well you sure seem eager to deny what's right in front of you. Most of your reasoning is laughable, to me. Feels like I'm wasting my time take care.
But you don't bother to take the time to elaborate my supposed failings in logic. You hand wave them away and call it a victory. I'm making the effort, why aren't you?
B+ for effort
D- for research and logic
More arrogance and condescension. If you're not willing to bother countering my points with your own references and logic, what business do you have arguing from any level of authority?
I'm arguing from the perspective of a skeptic and a scientist. Here are the basics of the scientific method:
Make an observation of some phenomenon (An event occurs)
Ask a question about that phenomenon (Why does this event occur?)
a. Generate a hypothesis (This event occurs because of this reason) b. Use existing data that justifies your hypothesis. c. Your hypothesis must be testable.
a. Design an experiment to test your hypothesis. b. The experiment must be designed with the explicit purpose of falsifying it.
Make a prediction of the results of your experiment if the hypothesis is true.
If your experiment failed to support your hypothesis, generate a new hypothesis. If your experiment supported your hypothesis, generate a new experiment to determine if your hypothesis holds up under a different angle.
All experiments must generate new questions to be investigated. There is no such thing as a terminal experiment.
Some implicit strategies are used in the scientific process. You want to employ Ockham's Razor. The most reasonable explanation is the one that is the most parsimonious, meaning the explanation relies on the least possible amount of unsubstantiated claims. The other major strategy is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I have been extraordinarily patient and incredibly detailed and meticulous when addressing your claims. If you sincerely believe this is a major issue that implicates the lives of children, I would think it would be your top priority to do everything you can to give me the very best effort and evidence to convince me to support your cause. If this is real, and you honestly believe this, then why aren't you making a greater investment to build you case as to prompt a legitimate investigation?
Dude.. it's a little absurd that you would try to discredit everything I bring up to you. I'm not calling you a shill. But at some point, when you have to work so hard to explain everything - right down to discrediting leaked agency files - and are convinced that none of my points are valid or relevant, it's time to consider that your own beliefs are limiting you. Sorry but like I already said, I'm wasting my time with you. All the best.
I never went as far as discrediting leaked agency files. I've provided some doubt about the cult, but I left the door open for more of your input.
Anyway, perhaps I have found it so easy to discredit all of your points is because... they're invalid? Have you actually considered that? Have you actually considered that all of your coveted evidence are really just wild speculation that require absurd leaps in logic?
it's time to consider that your own beliefs are limiting you.
I think it's time you consider that you came into pizzagate with a conclusion that started with corruption, and it fed your narrative about how the world works.
I'm wasting my time with you. All the best.
I figured it would end up here. You guys bitch and moan that the media and the people against pizzagate don't bother addressing "the evidence", and when we finally do, in excruciating detail, you bitch and moan that we try to, and successfully, discredit all the things that you think point to pizzagate. This is why every credible news organization considers pizzagate bullshit. And that's what it is: complete and utter bullshit.
And that's what it is: complete and utter bullshit.
Thanks I am aware of your stance. Don't worry, every single last piece of evidence I brought up is completely meaningless, you are right. Leaked documents are 'invalid'. Historical examples are 'invalid'. Late journalists' investigations are 'invalid'. Everything else I've said is also invalid.
You gave me one leaked document. I guess to arouse suspicion that all males around children is reasonable enough probable cause to assume pedophilia. That means that I should always have to prove my innocence if I have children and want to take them to a playground without their mother.
Historical examples mean what? What historical examples are we talking about? Do you even know? That pedophilia can occur under our radar, even though they're eventually exposed? Shouldn't that promote faith in the system?
What late journalists? Petersen? You have to believe her employer is lying about why she was in Haiti. You have to take it by faith that somebody nobody has ever heard of until her death was murdered by the Clintons to silence her, even though this would, obviously, result in the Streisand Effect. Somehow, the Clintons are smart enough to get away around massive conspiracies, but too dumb to recognize the Streisand Effect.
Or Spiers, this guy believed in several conspiracy theories. He died early, why? He struggled with drugs. The fact that he promoted many conspiracies that most of the world dismisses made him the least possible threat. He died because he fucked up when he relapsed. He wasn't on anybody's radar other than fringe communities. His unexpected death as a result of murder would be stupid to any fucking intelligence agency. Never arouse suspicion, especially when someone is considered a nutjob. You know who coined the term "conspiracy theory"? The CIA. Conspiracy theories existed before the CIA coined the term, but they defined the pejorative, and society accepts this. Spiers was no threat as a result. Again, his death would only result in the Streisand Effect as a result of a calculated assassination. Nobody would have believed him if he uncovered the truth other than small communities. The best strategy would have been to let him do whatever he wanted because he was of no threat.
As far as everything else. I provided plausible deniability. If I can poke holes in your claims based on existing evidence, then you don't have a strong case. That means you must build a stronger case. You might be right, but your presentation is terrible. This is often the case for graduate students (like myself) in the sciences.
As for the MSM. I honestly believe it's hard to sell out if you are truly passionate. The MSM is never completely controlled, even if influenced heavily by certain authorities, like the CIA. This means developing a discerning eye. It's easy to dismiss it completely, but what do you have left? Sources you never heard before making outlandish claims? Renegade members of the FBI and the CIA who make very interesting claims without proof? What about ex-FBI and ex-CIA agents that contradict them? Who is right? Who is wrong? Who is just fucking nuts?
We are not in a post-fact society. We were never in a fact society to begin with. So who do we trust? Why do we trust them? What is credible? How do we determine credibility?
This, ultimately, boils down to philosophy. For a primer in this area, look at Peirce's pragmatism (or, as he redefined it, pragmaticism), and James' pragmatism (Peirce disagreed with James' stances, hence Peirce continued his work under the header of pragmaticism).
I can tell you never thought this deeply before. This is not an insult, but it's readily apparent when somebody has never left the "doubt" phase reasoning when it comes to certain authority. You will dismiss this, but I hope you remember this discussion and think about it over time. Think about how weird reality is. Think about how hard establishing conspiracies truly is as you increase the number people involved. Think about what we know about human psychology, advances in neurology. Think about the uncomfortable truths of Terror Management Theory. Think about how reality is always unattainable, but probabilistic. Think.
Because pizzagate was a conspiracy conjured up in 4chan's /pol/ to undermine Hillary Clinton via her associates to promote Trump in an attempt to transform the US into an isolationist country that somehow will bring us back to our economic prime in the 50s without any understanding of the conditions that led to our economic prosperity in the 1950s.
This was picked up in 8chan's /pol/ and leaked into other areas of social media: twitter, facebook (edit, accidentally put 4chan), Breitbart, etc. It feeds into the narrative of the alt- and new-right. They exploited the moral panic of pedophilia for political traction. It's McCarthyism all over again, and it worked. It'll work for awhile until people wise up. Now McCarthyism is a pejorative for good reason. In God We Trust.
Yeah, we are. You pretty much believe absolutely everything you read outside of the MSM, and I'm skeptical and thoughtful of any piece of information that comes my way.
You have very much shown that to be false. I hopelessly urge you to reassess how 'skeptical and thoughtful' you are, only for your own good. I'm not invested in you.
It'd be interesting to find out how I was shown to be false, since you did absolutely no fact checking and wouldn't cite sources. I had spent much of my time looking up your claims, trying to find a variety of sources that put in good effort to substantiate them, and I found nothing that supports your claims. I found nothing. Just a bunch of websites that promote other wild conspiracy theories without any fact checking.
I can only imagine that by referencing Spiers and Gunderson, you believe in other conspiracy theories. Your investigative groups claim Gunderson mysterious death at 82 years old (cancer) was really orchestrated by the Illumanti. I mean, c'mon!
The article attempts to paint a picture that Monica Petersen, who recently died on November 13th, 2016 – supposedly from suicide by hanging – had nothing to do with human trafficking and had no interest in the Clinton Foundation.
There’s no citation mentioned in the Washington Post piece to verify that Petersen was exclusively a sex-worker rights activist.
She was employed by the Human Trafficking Center (HTC) listed above until June of 2016. This is correctly stated in the Washington Post. The Washington Post made it pretty clear, giving the organization she was tied to, that she he interests in human trafficking. The website links to a Colorado senate meeting article back in January of 2015, which she was employed under HTC, the director of the HTC is Claude d’Estree.
Here obituary I liked further went on to say about her recent activities in Haiti:
After leaving her position at the Korbel School this past June, she moved to Haiti in September to teach and set up an NGO (non-governmental organization). At the time of her death she was teaching Social Sciences at the Union School in Port-au-Prince, Haiti.
HTC's Facebook account has gone on record to discussed her untimely death in Haiti in her involvement regarding advocating for sex workers. Yes, she was there to also start up an NGO.
Your link has gone on to quote her mother:
Monica was teaching social studies at the union school and working to start a non-governmental organization. The NGO that she wanted to get started was an affordable guest house for volunteers in Haiti, which would have then helped her fund research in human trafficking, which we now know never came to pass.
Unsurprising that she wanted to use her NGO to fund her endeavors involving human trafficking. The NGO never took off because she died two months later. This means that between her responsibilities of teaching and work regarding sex workers, she was also investigating human trafficking. Okay, this is plausible, but is it supported by the facts?
The article gets a little long winded to build up a case that Petersen is still interested in human trafficking (no shit). After slogging through some of that, we finally get back to Haiti and Clinton.
Your link states that Petersen was not writing a 2 year, 110 page expose on Siddarth Kara's work:
Actually, this is patently false. According to Petersen’s former boss, Claude d’Estree, he stated at the memorial service
Their link to the video FB page has gone private, no mirror exists to the video, but they go on to quote:
“”(She) decided to take on one of the demagogues in the field of human trafficking.” […]
“Produced a 110-page analysis of human trafficking in Haiti – 2 years of research.” […] “We were looking for someone who was smart enough and maybe brave enough to publish her work” […] “I will continue to seek out and publish it for her” […] “We are in a state of shock. We may never know what exactly happened to her”
Washington Post cites d'Estree in her 2 year unpublished work.
D’Estree said Petersen had gone to Haiti a number of times, but she was not there to research human trafficking and was not investigating the Clinton Foundation. He said she had been a “brilliant” research fellow, working the past two years to produce a still unpublished article that critiqued a controversial book on the business of sex trafficking by Siddharth Kara.
Your link goes on to link to Bella's post, claiming she's blogging for Petersen.
The Washington Post neglects to link to the Facebook post where Petersen claims she’s investigating the Clinton Foundation.
This is misleading. All claims to Petersen investigating the Clinton Foundation is from a single second hand source.
They end up linking a Podesta e-mail that is concerned with foreign donations to the Clinton Foundation, paid speeches, and her brother's gold mining in Haiti could hurt her campaign. These things were used against her in her campaign, so these fears were legitimate.
Wrapping up
Petersen committed suicide, but this is under suspicion because he was highly motivated and a high spirited person. Although she surrounded herself around a lot of suffering. Her mother is in disbelief that her daughter could commit suicide. This is not atypical of parents. I've seen a lab mate of mine who was a free spirited person with such amazing optimism become rather bitter and foul mood after about a year into the degree program. I warned him that would happen. He's not suicidal, but the situation is also not remotely similar to dealing with the dire situation with sex workers in Haiti. Did she crack? I've seen people crack in interesting ways when stress gets to them. My dad attempted suicide and failed thanks to my mom finding his nearly lifeless body on the floor in the living room in the middle of the night. An ex-coworker of mine a decade ago snapped and murdered his mother. It is possible that after so many years of seeing deplorable conditions and living in them, she eventually experienced willpower depletion.
The Human Trafficking Center and the director of the HTC have gone on record to dismiss claims made by pizzagate believers. We have to believe that d'Estree is lying regarding her work in Haiti and her 110 page report she was working on.
The major source of the claims regarding Petersen's involvement in human trafficking related to Clinton is from an acquaintance of hers, Bella.
Petersen made no point to relay information she gave Bella to other people. None of her other friends of hers were in this loop, especially not to people who would be most interested: those in the HTC.
Why would the HTC try to cover this information up if they were in the know? Collectively, the group would be harder to stifle and members dying would only serve to make Clinton and the Podestas even more suspicious. The HTC would be at a greater advantage to expose these major violations of human rights, and Petersen would clearly know this. That, alone, makes this whole pizzagate subtheory suspicious.
As of now, the Washington Post article remains completely credible and thorough. I think we're seeing a classic case of starting with a conclusion (there must be terrible corruption with the Clintons) and desperately finding evidence to support the conclusion made, which is unscientific and a poor way to conduct an investigation. But no matter the efforts of actual skeptics regarding pizzagate, it'll continue to pick up steam and torture "suspects", family members, and friends in a desperate attempt to uncover a large pedophile ring that goes all the way up to the top echelons of the Democratic party, because, well, damn, that's sexy if you're part of a history making endeavor! In the meantime, pizzagaters like you try to shame skeptics, like me, to silence by accusing us of defending suspected pedophiles.
I've seen these tactics used by several groups: anti-evolutionists, anti-GMO, alternative medicine, antivaxers, 9/11 truthers, HIV denialists, NWO believers, etc. You've made up your mind, laughed at me as if I'm a naive fool, and yet give me shitty sources like this that purposely engages in disinformation.
I don't need any further evidence of your subscription to ignorance... But I guess you can take comfort in the fact that I - and many others - very much pity people like you.
If you'd like to know why: You aren't exceptionally stupid, but your own willingness to be blind and your literal inability to assess reality binds people like you into a box where your intellect suffocates. I was once there too - a long time ago, mind you. Stubbornness and self righteousness - everyone possesses a little. But you're among the group who have allowed it to overtake all reason. You have become your own worst enemy, you're hard-wired.
You've shown me from the start your inability to think for yourself. Example after amazing example. Specifics are futile with you...
Please go and enjoy your ignorance. Stop wasting your time sharing it with strangers on the internet. All the best (until you come prancing back again) - and I mean it, honestly.
You've done nothing to demonstrate any critical thinking. You've made a poor case for your argument and the best you can do is attack me for not sharing your worldview.
I'm a skeptic. I've given plausible deniability for every claim you have made. There is zero evidence to support any of your claims, you take it as a matter of faith that people who have died have been murdered, or, at the very least, have died under suspicious circumstances. You wouldn't even acknowledge that Breitbart's claim about the Podestas had anything to do with Planned Parenthood and ACORN, which had earlier posted on his twitter regarding their tenuous links to human trafficking.
You can believe of me whatever you want. I've tackled the claims and have shown that they're all based on a number of additional assumptions that are necessary for those claims to have any validity whatsoever. You've consistently demonstrated a complete lack of critical thinking.
So I'll keep coming back and provide both my perspective and analyses of claims. I appreciate r/conspiracy for not silencing me like other subs, which is a giant plus in their favor. Unfortunately, the userbase is not very receptive to skepticism.
I do appreciate the irony of these statements, however:
I was once there too - a long time ago, mind you. Stubbornness and self righteousness - everyone possesses a little. But you're among the group who have allowed it to overtake all reason. You have become your own worst enemy, you're hard-wired.
You've shown me from the start your inability to think for yourself. Example after amazing example. Specifics are futile with you...
Most of your posts have been laughing at others and completely dismissing arguments rather than anything constructive regarding your faith-based belief system. Again, I've encountered this over and over again with Christian fundamentalists, New Ageists, anti-vaxxers, etc. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
No, that doesn't. They let people into their facility daily, they have people who work there who are being threatened who haven't come forward. On one hand, this must be extremely horrifying, and since they have had to call the police, I'm sure the place has been thoroughly checked (also by the health department, which I would look in to if I took these claims seriously...but that's where I would start as a journalist).
Also, you cannot "have" the NYT do anything. I think one of the reasons people defend it so staunchly in liberal media is exactly the reasons I've laid out: We've been covering Marina/Louise for years, we have read the evidence of the emails and the Instagrams, and we don't see anything?
he may not be a shill, but he does throw a lot of shade. There is a subtle difference.
One is paid, the other is unpaid. They both push the same narrative, it is just that this guy actually believes he is doing a service by throwing shade on pizzagate.
Do you realize people have been suspiciously dying while looking into this
if you're talking about human/ child/ sex trafficking- yes absolutely. It's a real thing and people kill to protect it. If you're talking about pizza code and secret child trafficking tunnels under washington dc pizza restaurants... nobody has died that we know of. if you're referring to breitbart's tweets, he was talking about Okeefe's investigation into ACORN where he got them to offer consulting on helping 16 year old prostitutes get social services.
Do you realize there are direct ties between child trafficking in Haiti and the Clinton Foundation?
that's a bit harder to prove, but not an unfounded concept. the clintons are very involved in Haiti, whose culture basically revolves around child trafficking (at the very least in terms of indentured servitude, but generally admittedly in terms of the global slave trade as well).
And the organized disinfo campaign refers to MSM. Mainstream media
the msm is using this story to promote their "fake news" narrative which seeks to discredit alternative media by associating their competition with racism/ homophobia and crazy conspiracy theories which promote violence. but pizzagate isn't news, it's a scandal which may or may not have any veracity to it (i personally don't believe it does).
remember that david brock (media matters/ ctr/ alefantis' ex) was actually the person responsible for creating and reporting TrooperGate:
The allegations by state troopers Larry Patterson and Roger Perry were first reported by David Brock in the conservative magazine American Spectator,[1] in a piece entitled "His Cheatin' Heart"[2] that was released in December 1993 with a magazine publication date of January 1994.[3] Brock had found the story via a big donor to GOPAC, who connected him to Cliff Jackson, a longtime non-fan of Governor Clinton.[4] Brock's story also included material from two other troopers who wished to remain unnamed.[2] The same four troopers were also interviewed and their charges written about at length by the Los Angeles Times in a story published in December 1993 a day after the Spectator story came out.[5][6] They also spoke on air to CNN in the same month.[7]
This is political operative who has SUPPOSEDLY worked with both sides to manage and manipulate information. So while everyone is talking about CTR shills working to discredit Pizzagate, also don't discount the possibility that this is all a stunt by CTR to create a workable story around "fake news" to associate the "alt right" with ridiculous conspiracy theories and homophobia.
"suspiciously dying" See, but this in of itself isn't proof of anything. People speculated that Michael Hastings was killed under 'suspicious' circumstances, and he may have been, but there was never any proof and so nothing ever came of those theories. If you want to avoid that outcome you're going to need hard evidence.
Oh god, really?... You know you don't have any evidence so you go "hey get a load of this guy who loves pedos". What I love is due process and the notion of requiring evidence to prove something. I'm sorry you can't understand those very simple concepts and feel it necessary to take the low-road but I'm not really surprised..
You are literally - no way around it and simply put - putting forth ideas without evidence and then blaming others for not accepting it. You are no better than the flat-earth retards.. just more cancer killing this sub with half-baked shit
Again, you're trying to associate yourself with a big group to prop up your shitty theory by making it appear credible simply because a certain number of people believe it. If you feel the need to do that you obviously aren't as confident in what you're asserting as you would like me to believe.
"Please tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles."
Please, show me your hard evidence. I'm sure you've got some, right? I'll wait..
So, tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles.
There is enough circumstantial evidence for a 6 year old to understand, but you might have to look further than reddit coments. Your arrogance isn't doing any good. Not even for yourself.
Laura Silsby was accused of kidnapping by the Haitian government, which is notoriously corrupt. Unfortunately, many organizations working in relief services with children -- attempting to place homeless children as US adoptions, for example -- are often accused by foreign governments of kidnapping or other crimes. This is not to say that children are not sometimes removed from safe conditions by shady adoption agencies -- this has happened in Russia, quite a bit; sometimes the foreign parents are complicit in this, because $$$.
Still, this doesn't tie Silsby to pizza or a satanic pedophile ring, unless you assume that all children moved into adoption are sold into sex slavery.
The other thing is that Silsby has worked for companies doing real, quantifiable good for the benefit of exploited children, like the Amber Alert system. And anyone suggesting the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is engaged in anything but helping kids is off their rocker, sorry.
The ten Baptist missionaries in Haiti were given legal advice by Puello. That is unfortunate for them, but he was the one who contacted them after their arrest; there was no prior relationship. I imagine they were scared and accepted the first offer of help.
Puello being arrested is not evidence that Silsby, Hillary Clinton, or Comet Ping Pong are involved in a satanic pedophile conspiracy.
Still, this doesn't tie Silsby to pizza or a satanic pedophile ring, unless you assume that all children moved into adoption are sold into sex slavery.
What does tie Silsby to a corrupt political ring is the 42nd president of the US.
Pizzagate isn't about politics. You find anyone digging into it and they'll tell you it's dems and repubs alike. Motherfuckers saying "it's not real" while doing nothing to attempt to even show they have followed pizzagate or clicked on any links. That's what's stupid. If you're not going to actively participate and debunk, why come here?
You're unfairly putting the burden on people who don't want to believe your theories, when the onus is actually on those making promoting them. These comments are disturbingly similar to those made by individuals in the 'flat earth' type posts when confronted about a lack of evidence. Almost without fail they will every time say "it's not up to me to convince you" or "prove im wrong" without realizing that it's in fact their responsibility to provide a solid case.
Maybe because it started with the Podesta email leaks by Wikileaks, something which isn't even discussed in the MSM. Where do you expect people to discuss that stuff ?
Politically motivated how ? Donald Trump won the Election. There would be actually no "reason" to witch hunt for Hillary or the Clinton Foundation anymore.
Nobody wants to push Trump, he's already in the spotlight.
People started investigating because it sparkled the curiosity.
People started noticing odd stuff and connections.
Tell me please how the outcome of this Investigation would affect Trump's Presidency ?
Obviously it does fuckall for Trump now, but there's plenty of people that hate Clinton and all Democrats -- and this is currently the most popular idea to somehow sock it to those darn lefty globalists.
Some people hate Hillary clinton, thats why they literally investigate breadcrumbs of evidence to damage her ?
Everyone who was anti Hillary basically won.
People are investigating because the whole thing is kinda scary.
If Trump was somehow involved in this PG thing people wouldn't hesitate to point out those connections, but the fact that there were barely any connections indicates that he is either not in the same boat or he was careful enough to not leave traces.
Nice try with add hominem. Attacking people who are interested in this theory is not a way to win any hearts and minds, let alone debunk the theory itself. Besides, the Podesta leaks were blacklisted by the media--the same corporations who were literally FUNDING Hillary's campaign. I'm a lifelong liberal democrat, and it was blindingly clear how the media was shilling for her. Of course they are going to actively suppress a story like this.
1) the election is over, and /r/thedonald and /r/hillaryforprison (and many other subs) now have an enormous mobilized and energetic base with nothing to do.
2) so they've focused on pizzagate, because it still (in theory) would harm their opponents, as well as being justice porn/vigilante vindication.
This would make more sense, except Pizzagate first gained traction before the election. So it kind of falls flat.
It first gained traction on 4chan, then /the_donald focused on spreading it in an effort to smear Clinton. It's much, MUCH more discussed now than then, which is my point re: why people are being skeptical, due to these posts appearing on /all more often.
Calm down. I didnt say it did. "Prove" is a tricky word, but thats not the bar. It is simply another piece of evidence in the initial investigatory stage.
What it would prove, is that the owner lied about. That much is for sure. In one interview he is quoted about storing food in his basement, and just recently he said he doesnt even have a basement. So some clarification on that would be nice. Is that really too much to ask?
In one interview he is quoted about storing food in his basement,
He said "you could put tomatoes in the basement", and I took it to mean he was just talking about canning tomatoes in the figurative sense, not that he necessarily had a basement. Sort of like if I'm shopping for furniture, I'd look at a recliner and say "hey, you could put that in the study" despite the fact that I don't have a study. It's just figurative speech.
And even if he really did lie about having a basement -- which I don't think he did -- it is not evidence of pedophilia, or of really anything besides having a basement to store tomatoes in.
Ive never talked about a figurative basement or study...thats really stretching it.
And I already stated it wouldnt be proof of pedophilia. It would be proof that he is lying about something that seems very odd to lie about. Again, just one more piece of evidence.
It's not stretching as much as claiming Comet Ping Pong is a den of pedophilia, that's for sure. You're twisting a small part of a person's casual spoken language to an assumption that would fit your narrative of him lying. And again, it doesn't matter if he says he has a basement one day and not the next; it's not "evidence" of anything, except the fact that a basement is there or not.
No. I wouldnt be fitting these pieces together for any old person. I'm looking at all of this in the context of someone (Podesta) who has known ties to multiple convicted child rapists, a man who disturbs people with his artistic choices of naked teenagers in his bedroom, a guy who has a painting of 2 people eating another one. Im looking at this in the context of someone (Pizza owner) who has explicitly suggestive pictures all over his companies instagram like a child with her arms taped to a table, a guy who decided to make his online avatar a statute of a Romans child love interest etc etc etc. These are weird dudes, who have weird fascinations. Im looking at the whole picture here.
Art that I think the vast majority of the country would agree with me goes too far. Im sure if some powerful right wing guy had "art" with a bunch of Nazi symbols and pictures of black people being abused this would be getting tons of attention. But child abuse? Nah.
Art that I think the vast majority of the country would agree with me
"I believe my personal views to be representative of most people, therefore I'm correct".
Im sure if some powerful right wing guy had "art" with a bunch of Nazi symbols and pictures of black people being abused this would be getting tons of attention.
It's wonderful there's a little thing called "freedom of speech" (art is a kind of speech protected by the constitution) which protects people who collect, say, Nazi war memorabilia from accusations of being a Nazi. If a museum has this photograph in their collection, does it mean they're endorsing lynching? No, of course it doesn't. It's a crazy leap of logic to suggest that.
I clearly laid the first quote out as an opinion jackass. Stop changing my words. Do you not know what the phrase "I think" means? Illiterate.
Ya theres freedom of speech, never said there wasnt. Never said owning Nazi symbols or lynching pictures is not allowed. Again, please learn to read before trying to engage in discussion for everyones sake.
So you think if it got leaked that Kellyanne Conway had pictures of nazi and lynching in her house, no one would bat an eye because its just "art?" You really believe that? If so you are naiive.
explicitly suggestive pictures all over his companies instagram like a child with her arms taped to a table
Dude if you think that is "explicitly suggestive", that is on you. I think it's funny. Parents do silly things with their kids sometimes.
These are weird dudes, who have weird fascinations.
Where are you from, North Dakota? Being gay and being into art are not exclusively the territory of pedophiles. Some people got freaked out by Maria Abramovic when in reality she is one of the world's most respected contemporary artists. Have you ever been to MOMA or the Chicago Art Institute? Ever heard of Serrano's "Piss Christ"? Or Chris Burden literally crucifying himself to a Volkswagen? Modern art is weird, I get it. Lots and lots of normal people like weird art. It's people like you who freaked the fuck out over Robert Mapplethorpe's photography and wanted to defund the National Endowment for the Arts in the 1980.
And I just saw a Philly Weekly article where he talks about his other restaurant, Buck's:
"Alefantis estimates, he bought 12 tons of Toigo tomatoes, which Stello turned into sauce and canned before trucking the jars to the basement at Buck's Fishing & Camping, Alefantis' other restaurant nearby."
So there you go. He was probably referring to this.
Probably because Antinous became something of a gay icon in the 20th century; Oscar Wilde wrote about him. Or that it's simply a beautiful Roman sculpture? Antinous has been a subject for many sculptors and his face resides in many musuems; I don't think any of those works of art are endorsements of pedarasty anymore than a Dali painting suggests the artist actually melted clocks in his free time.
I don't think any of those works of art are endorsements of pedarasty anymore than a Dali painting suggests the artist actually melted clocks in his free time.
That's an interesting theory. He wasn't the artist who created the sculpture though. He specifically chooses the child lover of Emperor Hadrian, from a culture that found pederasty acceptable, one of the most prominent figures in regards to the legitimacy of child love as his profile pic.
That and the content of his instagram are incredibly suspect at best.
Do you think Alefantis would be able to land a teaching gig with a social media account like that?
He specifically chose the child lover of Emperor Hadrian, from a culture that found pederasty acceptable, one of the most prominent figures in regards to the legitimacy of child love as his profile pic.
Given the content of his instagram you think that the reason for doing this was because Antinous was a gay icon?
The guys instagram features a bunch of young children AND Antinous as his profile picture. What a coincidence.
What does this even mean? The guy runs a pizza shop. He probably would not hack it as a welder, a golf instructor, or an accordionist, either.
It's a hypothetical question. Let's say for arguments sake that he had his teaching credentials. If he was trying to get a teaching job with an instagram account like that do you believe he would ever get hired?
Given the content of his instagram you think that the reason for doing this was because Antinous was a gay icon?
I don't know, man. He's a famous subject for classic sculptors. I don't think those guys were necessarily pedophiles either. Do you think Michelangelo was a pedophile for creating the statue of David?
The guy's instagram had pictures of kids on it because he has a pizza shop and kids eating pizza is about the most normal fuckin thing ever. Why is it weird for anyone to have pictures of children? Jesus christ. I'd tape a goddamn kid to the table if they were beating me at ping pong, I know that much.
It's a hypothetical question. Let's say for arguments sake that he had his teaching credentials.
No, how about instead we say the dude is bagging groceries at your local Kroger. That's as relevant here as any other imaginary job he could have. How about we say he's a leprechaun who's hiding a pot of gold? Could a leprechaun with an Instagram account also get certified as an SQL programmer?
I don't think those guys were necessarily pedophiles either. Do you think Michelangelo was a pedophile for creating the statue of David?
If he was fucking 13 year olds when he was 48 then yeah lol.
No, how about instead we say the dude is bagging groceries at your local Kroger. That's as relevant here as any other imaginary job he could have. How about we say he's a leprechaun who's hiding a pot of gold? Could a leprechaun with an Instagram account also get certified as an SQL programmer?
Didn't want to answer because you know with an Instagram account like that he could never get a teaching gig, despite the fact that someone of his stature should have no problem...because he posts nasty pedo shit.
No, I didn't answer because it's a retarded strawman.
You didn't answer because literally no school district would ever hire someone with a social media page like that. Because it is disgusting, he has Antinous as his profile picture ffs.
one of the most prominent figures in regards to the legitimacy of child love
Hardly, unless you have a citation handy. He was idolized through the cult Hadrian created, which ensured him a place in history, but not for "legitimizing child love". Ancient Greek culture of 2,000 years ago did not scorn pedarasty the way the modern world does, that we know, but Antinous wasn't worshipped for Hadrian's pedophilia.
For centuries, pederasty had long been socially acceptable among Greece's leisured and citizen classes, with an older erastes (aged between 20 and 40) undertaking a caring sexual relationship with an eromenos (aged between 12 and 18) and taking a key role in their education;[20] and Hadrian took Antinous as a favoured servant when they were aged about 48 and 13. Such a societal institution of pederasty was not indigenous to Roman culture, although bisexuality was the norm in the upper echelons of Roman society by the early 2nd century.[21]
Coincidence his profile picture is Antinous and contains pictures of young children that aren't his, date rape drugs, Moloch, lolita, etc...
Jesus, are you going after everyone with pictures of children on their Instagram?
And date rape drugs, mentions of Moloch, Antinous as their profile picture, a circle of satanic friends, a close relationship with the Pedo-esta brothers and the oh so wholesome Clinton family?
Yes.
That's just the actual history of Hadrian and Antinous, there's nothing about Antinous somehow "legitimizing" pedophilia.
He is one of the most prominent examples we have regarding legitimized pedophilia.
I see tons of full grown adults with even younger looking anime pictures as profiles. Do I flip my lid like a nun catching glimpse of a penis over it? No.
Dude, who spends their entire day insulting people dozens of times for believing in a conspiracy? You're either a shill or a fucking loser, most likely both. You should probably just go.
This is conspiracy. Post evidence you have even followed along. You know, participate and debunk. Otherwise, what the fuck are you doing here? Hur dur, this is fake is a little too shallow for us regulars
This is a conspiracy THEORY, and as such it must be measured against solid evidence for it to be proven as conspiracy FACT. Funny how you want skeptics like me to leave. You are just looking for this sub to become an echo chamber, a hugbox of yours. I suggest you go to GLP or thedonald for that.
I've kept up with this entire theory. It has it's odd links. It has it's convincing links. But none of it is evidence at all.
Also, as an ATS vet (before it sold out), I've watched what happens when users fail to use critical thinking and question their own beliefs. A forum for conspiracies becomes a cesspool of insanity. You should ALWAYS question your own evidence and try to punch holes in it. It's the scienfitic method.
There are ways of properly addressing bogus theories - that is debunking the claims that they make
How do you debunk wild claims as these? From the known facts the headline could just as well write "Southern baptist churches gain financial assets by child trafficking and even put pressure on the state secretary to free one of theirs" but oddly enough I don't see anyone making the link - altough there is a abundance of child services by christian missionaries and a long, long history of child abuse by church members.
And furthermore: How come that US evangelical churches put all their money behind Trump/Pence when Trump should be somewhat of an antichrist for the religious right?
That's all you need to say. Pizzagate is well beyond being 'wild claims' if you actually look. You're either a shill, or you're ignorant. Or you're able to personally debunk the theory, like you know, by actually addressing the 'wild claims'. Should be pretty easy if they're so wild, right?
Funny how you used both religion and politics in your attempt to derail. This has nothing to do with either.
That's all you need to say. Pizzagate is well beyond being 'wild claims' if you actually look. You're either a shill, or you're ignorant. Or you're able to personally debunk the theory, like you know, by actually addressing the 'wild claims'.
Using an example: Donald Trump is in the pocket of the NY mob and the russian mafia. please debunk. You can't do it? Well then it must be true.
You call me a shill but I see a subreddit which is bit-by-bit turned away from sceptical about every information they get towards accepting a narrative without even asking twice while ignoring one of the biggest social & finacial changes in US politics.
I is sorta funny how everyone is so concerned with pizzagate while the oil&banking industry gets rid of regulations. Seeing who pushes the narrative I'd say you are the shill.
This is a moronic attempt to equate pizzagate to baseless political accusations
baseless ? Why? Because you don't belive in it? Read it up and you might realize that you've been played.
Just stand both stories side-by-side compare all facts unbaised and ask yourself why you have been chasing a rather weak (in terms of proof) story while the other has played almost no role...
Pizzagate might be a new concept for you and many others. Some have been researching this stuff for longer than you've been on the internet.
and yet you are all defensive about it. spoiler alert: The same narrative was used by e.g. the Nazis denounce and break the resistance of the catholic church. Has there been child molestation: sadly yes. Was that the reason why the narrative was pushed? nope.
Just read trough old white power forums, just search for the narrative of stalinist jews (funny as stailn was a antisemite) being pedophile and raping christian childs and you will find the agenda for pizzagate.
If it really would be about the children there would be a discussion about if and where the sexual theory & liberation of the 50ties/60ties went too far but there is no such thing. Just a narrative.
I do. For the simple reason that it is probably the world view I get the least.
I read the forums because i don't wanna lose the ability to talk to those people. Democracy means giving everyone a voice and listening to every reason - regardless of how utterly despicable it might be.
fully agree with you, being able to see and analyze an oppising view poiunt yourself instead of just taking what the masses say about it as truth is much better. more poeple need to do this, research counter view points yourself instead of eating up what others writer/say about it. too many people have an agenda, and the only way to truly go at something without a bias is to do it yourself.
Same horrendous topic doesn't make it the "same narrative". I commend you on your grasp of history but it's foolish to use that as sole reason to call pizzagate a political strategy.
I have dug into the story and found only laughable shit. Its funny that instead of just stating facts that support your claim, facts that would be hard to ignore you just yell shill. You cant state the facts that support your claim because there are no facts, it is all a bunch of cobbled together hearsay. Please correct me if I am wrong by just laying out the facts in manner that does not include name calling or require me to jump to a bunch of conclusions. Stop acting like you have proof and everyone is ignoring it, everyone is ignoring you because you have NO proof of what you are spouting.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh my god. How do I sleep? Perfectly fine, actually. How do you sleep being part of a movement that's responsible for the growing anti-intellectualism and post-fact society we're living in. Show me a single piece of convincing evidence. Anything. I'll take literally anything. So far all I've seen is a whole lot of sad little men with messiah complexes. Now call me a shill for not believing in the ramblings of idiots.
I don't have to show you anything. I'm not investigating pizzagate.
My issue is you, not them. This is not a court of law, so there are no rules of evidence. This is a god damn citizen investigation, not a LE one, they could possibly be corrupt, possibly not.
NO my issue is not about pizza gate, it is about shill hunting. I like hunting shills because they are an integral part at finding Uncomfortable Truths.
When people like you throw shade, for no apparent reason, people like me are curious.
You are satisfied there is no CST going on here on Earth. I'm not.
Sums this entire thing up quite nicely. You can't. You won't, and when you're asked to the only thing you can do is call me a shill. I throw shade because when I see a conglomeration of delusional people talking nosense, and it results in an attempted shooting I get concerned. No such thing as a simple disagreement. Check mypost history, I talk shit about Conor Mcgregor too. Do you think I'm shilling for Eddie Alvarez? You people are absolutely fucking ridiculous and the sad thing is that you're too rolled up in your messiah complex to see it. You think you're Jesus and I'm the filthy pleb trying to spread lies, and nothing will ever change that for as long as your mind is this unhinged and your self-esteem is this low.
When people like you throw shade, for no apparent reason, people like me are curious.
The reasons seem quite apparent. Citizen investigations have as much potential to cause harm to innocent people as law enforcement investigations when they're on the wrong track. Parents of murdered children are continuously harassed by citizen investigators claiming their children were fake. People working at pizza places are continuously harassed by occasionally armed citizen investigators claiming they're part of a child sex ring.
Ok comet ping pong - proof beyond words that there is no basement and/or tunnels connected to the establishment.
bigger picture - reasonable explanations for journalists dying after investigating the CF, reasonable explanations for why 5,200 of 23,000 pentagon employees were caught buying child pornography and it was swept under the rug, reasonable explanations for why joe biden is even allowed near children, reasonable explanations why agencies have been caught red handed covering up inquiries into this in the past, reasonable explanation for why the Bush's are proven to have been involved with underage male prostitutes, reasonable explanation for why pedophilia seems to be part of the 'elite' culture. Reasonable explanation for why this kind of thing can be true in the UK and Australia but we are wrong to investigate hunches of it happening domestically.
This perfectly describes the situation and what is wrong with most of these posts. They seem to have reversed the process through which these theories are supposed to be accepted, jumping to the conclusion that they are 'proven' when they are in fact not, and that those who don't believe them are required to provide 'evidence' of them being false. It's all so very backwards..
See that's the problem, the evidence is not really very compelling. And you and others like you accusing people who don't find your case convincing "shills" is not helping you. Guys who come on here with other theories that aren't backed up with any kind of substantive data, like "Flat Earth" or "Fake moon landing" receive a similar type of reception and often resort to making the same type of accusations.
I could flick through a dozen articles that go through in detail as to why pizzagate is lies and distortion but this will just be immediately discredited because it is from the institutions that are defined in this forum as "mainstream media". People on this forum have a brilliant ability to dismiss anything that does not agree to their narrative so please tell me what it is that you will acknowledge as an agreeable information source??
source to what? A website saying those aren't codewords? Words you had no idea could even be thought of as codewords before some random 4channer told you they were? How do you disprove a fairy tale? Should I also prove Santa is fake?
They can't, "i know the information is bullshit so i'll save you time by attacking it while not linking you to the information i'm discreditting" is their new shtick
Even by mentioning pizzagate they know they're breathing life into it, because people have become accustomed to media propaganda they know they need to see the information themselves.
None of it is evidence of anything but its the narrative that keeps driving itself. Initially a few emails by wikileaks ,but the information is seriously disconcerting.
The media and shill pile on condensing skeptics into diamonds
They didn't actually debunk anything, they simply claimed it was not true without providing a single iota of proof. How many times did they use the words "fake" "not true" "conspiracy" without actually providing a single source for their claims?
This is an open investigation, they have not addressed even the basic claims, unfortunately thers isnt one comprehensive collection of all the data put together yet as new shit comes out by the hour and no one is claiming to have all the answers, but debunking the entire investigation without even addressing 2% of the evidence is insane.
I am not here to convince you, if you dont beleive in it then thats fine, no one here is looking to sell anything, we are not making money from this and we are not doing this with malicious intentions. The investigation has bought together thousands of people from different countries, with different cultures and different political ideologies, with one goal. To uncover the truth.
The fact is that pedophile amongst the rich and powerful has been uncovered many many times, and cover ups have also happened, I for one am happy to accept legitimate debunkings, but you have not actually posted one.
This is not an official sub for pizzagate, if you are relying on this as your main source for pizzagate information then i suggest waiting until a legitimate comprehensive breakdown is avaliable, but that wont happen until the investigation is finished.
Well did you read the Vox article? I think the outlined credible information on where the story started, how and why and what was not true. And pointed out that authorities had looked into the allegations and found there was no substance to the allegations.
Of course I read them in the hopes you could provide me with some useful information. You didn't. They did not address where the investigation started, the investigation started back in 2011. The authorities have not looked into the allegations, where's the case file?
Carl Sagan once said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If he were alive and came here, he'd be considered a shill for not accepting the status quo
I, like you, never thought I would find myself on the front lines of the First Information War. It seems though, that we have been drafted, and now we must do what soldiers do.
We must fight with every tool we have at our disposal. Our enemy is insidious, powerful, and very very real. They will not stop, they will not negotiate, and they are legion.
But so are we.
Use the tactics T_D proved effective before it was neutered.
Support the mods.
Upvote like your life depends on it (it might).
Spot the shills.
Dont harass, threaten or insinuate violence of any kind. Downvote and report to the mods any agent provocateurs who make these sorts of threat posts. They are chomping at the bit for us to make such a noob mistake to shut us down.
Browse NEW and upvote. Browse RISING and upvote. Dont just trust the front page of r/conspiracy anymore. UPVOTE.
Join and support those engaged in verbal battle with shills. They cant shout us all down, and the longer we tie one down the less help he can give his crony friends.
Post new evidence everyday!!! Visit VOAT (v/pizzagate) and subscribe. They are our fallback plan if all goes to shit.
TALK to friends, family, anyone who will listen. THey can control some communication, but not all of it. Not till they can control us.
Archive EVERYTHING. Save files to flash drives. Brush up on resources for encryption and hacker protection.
There is a war going on - and history will remember the soldiers that fought it. They have the plans but we have the power.
Without knowing any of you, I can say confidently that if you are on the side of Freedom, I love you, you are my family.
R/conspiracy has "gone to war" constantly. Every single time they circlejerk over some bonkers theory that is too fallacious to ever be "properly" debunked in their minds. Every single time these top minds go around posting hyperbole and accusing any one who disagrees of being shills. Usually this war ends with abunch of people whining about admin abuse and screaming that they're going to go to voat any minute now, but they never end up leaving and staying for good. They always have to come back so they can "fight" their "war".
You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. That being said; if you don't want to be a part of this particular movement or topic, then why are you on this thread? Genuine curiosity - no salt intended.
I used to browse conspiracy a while ago, before everyone was caught up in politics and t_d flooded the sub with their own users and shitposts. Pizzagate is Donald's pet theory and their way to try and continue attacking the opposition. Not only do they do this, they accuse anyone who disagrees to be a shill and/or a pedophile. Because of this, anytime I see this bullshit reach r/all, I feel the need to come and voice my opinion, like a few others here do, usually to end up being called a shill.
That's good, and thanks. But not everyone who disagrees will get the same response. I just read a thread with someone saying that anyone, no exception, who disagrees is a shill, then suggesting that everyone downvote those people to oblivion
Unfortunately that is the effect polarized topics have on people.
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me so respectfully, it's a rare find on the Internet these days.
I don't think we disagree that shills do exist, but I certainly don't think anyone who disagrees with me is a shill. A day old account who posts contributing nothing and spreading doubt or posts inciting violence though? Fuck them.
Typical tactic to try and politicize this, and draw sides. WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE! We want to end human trafficking. And we found some things on the internet that have cause for concern.
When is the last time CNN has attacked 9/11 conspiracy theorist THIS HARD?
Completely agree with you my friend, it's always refreshing when someone is able to take politics out of this and care for the actual HUMAN TRAFIC going on right now.
I'd love for this to happen outside this sub more often.
By specifically accusing members of the democratic party. Now obviously there is no point in arguing this further, since your point will be that they are being accused because they're involved, so let me just say one other thing that annoys the shit out of me. This cheap tactic of trying to appear on the moral high ground, like you two are doing. By saying the conspiracy theorists pushing pizzagate are on the side of THE CHILDREN and are against HUMAN TRAFFIC implying that those who disagree are for HUMAN TRAFFIC and are pedophiles.
Why go to the extreme? I'm just saying it has nothing to do with politics.
It wouldn't surprise me that members of the republic party might be involved in some way, this is not about politics.
Look, people have their own personal reasons to try and stop human traffic, if you don't want anything to do with it it's ok, you can also be skeptical.
The thing we don't like is when people repeat what the MSM says, all we ask is to people to form their own opinions, if after reading everything you still think there are just "a lot of coincidences" then fine.
That's honestly all I ever asked, too many coincidences is where we are at, and until something blows up big it will be like that.
Remind me why there are no republicans invoked in the story then? Oh that's right, the owner of the pizza shop was the boyfriend of one of Clinton's top surrogates.
Just defending logic. Of course this witch hunt is political in nature. I have been watching the videos people put up and they make crazy claims and say stuff like "these globalist elite pedophiles, hillary clinton blah blah blah"...it ain't random. I'm just a guy who actually wants proof before I believe in a witch hunt started by internet morons. It makes me mad when people don't value the truth or stay objective until they really have proof. I am gonna say it again, there is no PROOF FOR ANY OF THIS. PROOF. PROOF! NOT FUCKING STUPID INSTAGRAM PICTURES. PROOF. proof of the "code?". I can debunk your stupid shit and that's why it's so sad to have to sit here and backtrack like 8 logical leaps back to normal waters that are supported by proof.
So you have an insane opinion based on no logic and facts. Why don't we start breaking down the coincidences one by one. Serve 'em up i'll swat 'em down
If you were a little more interesting to me I would, but I dont really like your personality and I dont feel lile wasting time with someone like you, you believe whatever you want man, have a nice day.
Awwwwww sorry honey :'( I thought it would have been fun to slay 90% of the conspiracy in an open forum. I guess you'll have to find a personality you like more so they can serve up some debunking
Everyone please look into Laura Silsby. She was caught in Haiti and jailed for trying to traffic 33 children and the first thing the Clinton Foundation did when they moved into Haiti was Hillary pardoned her, and she now creepily works on the board of directors for a company called AlertSense that is in charge of issuing amber alerts. https://www.alertsense.com/company/executive-team/ (Laura Silsby-Gayler)
The lawyer Hillary used to help absolve Laura also was a convicted child trafficker, you just can't make this stuff up.
So basically, a woman who served time for trafficking kids in Haiti now sits on the board of a company that serves as the backbone for many local authorities when they want to issue Amber Alerts.
WikiLeaks then confirmed Hillary has a LONG history with convicted child trafficker and kidnapper Laura Silsby, and Huma Abedin (vice chairwoman of Hillary's 2016 presidential campaign) has been forwarding emails about Laura Silsby's non government organization to Hillary for years.
Laura Silsby was also former director of The New Life Children's Refuge, the same group that was busted by Haitian authorities trying to traffic kids:
And the video below is about a bunch of Haitians protesting the evils of the Clintons, and the man protesting in the video mentions how the Clintons have exploited Haiti's resources for themselves, and even specifically mentions people in Haiti are afraid to go out at night because of fear of kidnapping. (4:48 in the video)
At around the 2:00 mark he even mentions Tony Rodham (Hillary's brother) is now in charge of gold mines in Haiti and sits on the gold mine's board of directors.
Many people are talking about this story, continue to spread the word!! We need justice for these
crimes, and the Clintons should be in prison.
Everyone please look into Laura Silsby. She was caught in Haiti and jailed for trying to traffic 33 children and the first thing the Clinton Foundation did when they moved into Haiti was Hillary pardoned her, and she now creepily works on the board of directors for a company called AlertSense that is in charge of issuing amber alerts. https://www.alertsense.com/company/executive-team/ (Laura Silsby-Gayler)
Like the church isn't full of pedos, you act like people in positions of authority can do no wrong.
Oh they can (and did) a lot of things wrong. I'm just wondering why the push for pizzagate is coming right now and if we are in reality not barking the wrong tree..
I don't know, a few kooks talking about flat earths and crop circles is one thing, there's a lot of people, and a lot of evidence is trickling in. On the other hand these are very serious allegations, and have ruined lives, on the other hand if it is true it's some disgusting shit that should be exposed. Not covered up, the people responsible shouldn't get a slap on the wrist, because anyone else would get lynched. If it is true and nothing is done it means laws hold no meaning, the implication could destroy our notion of reality.
I pray it isn't true and that people who have almost unlmited power are completely incorruptible and do nothing but good. But I know I'm only kidding myself, you cannot deny human nature, if you do it becomes grotesque.
Much like the 7 deadly sins are basically aberrations of normal animal behavior. Gluttony, being a disfigured version of hunger etc.
If it is true and nothing is done it means laws hold no meaning, the implication could destroy our notion of reality.
hold on, ..
First of all we are talking about two different things - pizzagate is all about a global liberal conspiracy of pedophiles and not about an actual case of child molestation, which is exactly the reason why it is shunned and why it will lead nowhere except strengthening the narrative of an pedophile elite in certain parts of society.
Furthermore pedophilia and child molestation is used as one-and-the-same which is not only not true but won't help anyone as it reduces the amount of pedophilies seeking help instead of either fighting on their own or giving in to their urges.
Without a doubt there will be pedophilies among the elite - but should we assume that there are actually far more pedophiles among the elite than among e.g. workers?
It is actually easy:
Never ever vote for someone who used his influence and power to gain sexual favors. Never ever look away when someone speaks up about rape or sexual harrasment. But also: Never condemn before you are completely sure.
And yet these bastards get voted for and are admired for their virtility. Be it Berlusconi in Italy, be it Bill Clinton or Trump in the States.
Even when it comes to child molestation people tend to look away for a long time, ignore signs in their own family, are mostly afraid of strangers. Our perception is crooked.
Skeptic here just looking for clues. Can you show me the link between Clinton and the Silsby pardon?
All I can find is emails from Huma about the case but I can't seem to find anything showing any response from Clinton and can't find anything about her pardoning Silsby.
There was no Hillary pardon. What does that even mean? She was convicted in Haitian court and sentenced to time served. Her biggest US government advocates were 2 senators and 2 congressmen from her home state of Idaho, all but one of whom are Republican. And they were the ones who pushed the State Department to take an active interest in the case.
This is a smoking gun lad. 1) Hillary breached State Department protocol by helping Silsby get a lawyer. That is never done by State, the most they are allowed to do is provide a list of legal representation that the American citizen could then choose from. 2) Bill used his political influence with the Haitian government to get Silsby off the hook, commuting her sentence and getting her co conspirators released immediately.
You'd have to have video of the Clintons literally boning a teenager to get a more smoking gun than that.
Could it be that Hillary was helping Silsby because Silsby was in fact attempting to do good but there was a legal slip up with Haiti?
Are you really trying to justify transporting a large number of undocumented, non-orphaned children across an international border as "attempting to do good"?
Effectively, yes. There was a notable lack of legal documentation, commensurate with a child trafficking organisation, not a legal adoption agency.
Children have individual rights protected by the state, and they aren't possessions that can be gifted by their "parents" to strangers, let alone sold on.
Would be very interesting to hear the story from the side of their parents.
I can see that it's very shady - but if the parents wanted them to leave, a poor family has few other options. In that case the charges effectively being dropped seems reasonable to me.
On the other hand it could have been kidnapping, plain and simple. In which case, Clinton's involvement in the charges being dropped directly implicates her in the abduction of children.
In that case the charges effectively being dropped seems reasonable to me.
Laura Silsby was found guilty. She was released early following a personal intervention to the Haitian authorities by Hillary Clinton. You have to ask yourself why Hillary would step in to assist a convicted child trafficker, and then give her a job.
Laura Silsby was found guilty. convicted child trafficker
That's not correct - Silsby and Co were arrested on child trafficking charges and then Clinton stepped in and got the others released and Silsbys charges reduced to 'arranging irregular travel' and she was found guilty of that.
In my opinion the only real justification of that would be if the parents and children wanted to leave the county.If not, it's child trafficking.
I would not be surprised at all if it was trafficking and Clinton knew it - we know she got that rapist reduced charges too, many years ago, that kind of shady shit is right up her street.
Jorge Puello, was not Silsby's lawyer. He was reported to be acting as a legal adviser to the detainees, but it sounds like he was also a con-man and was using the situation to try to extract money from the detainees’ families.
Isn't it equally possible that Silsby and Co thought they were doing the right thing and didn't get state approval/relied on Haitians to bring them children who they thought were orphans?
Nope I'm not justifying... she was part of a religious program that's stated goal was to rescue children. Usually the simplest explanation is the correct explanation. Did Silsby and others intend to rescue children as stated or did they participate in a vast conspiracy attempt to kidnap children to provide them to a large child smuggling network?
Usually the simplest explanation is the correct explanation.
The simplest explanation, bearing in mind the complete absence of legal documentation for the international transit of these children, is that they were being trafficked. You're a lawyer, you say?
That is untrue. The Org did have approval by another State, the DR I believe to transport children. According to the Wikipedia that has been referenced in this thread the Org was operating under the direction of Haitian officials and thought that they were rescuing orphans not wrongfully rescuing children with parents.
And how does that negate the fact, or mitigate in any way, that the crime of attempted child abduction was committed in Haiti?
You honestly think a legitimate adoption agency would try to move children across borders without legal documentation? Your attempt to justify this extremely suspicious episode is frankly, disturbing.
Being convicted of Attempted child abduction does not necessarily mean that the convicted actors attempted to take children with ill intent. From what I have read Silsby and Co thought they had approval to remove orphans from a country during a state of emergency.
I could take my child across state lines to flee from his abusive mother but if the mother decides to report it to the authorities by state law I could be charged with kidnap. Does that make me a kidnapper or am I someone trying to do the right thing?
I'm sure this is not the first time a Christian missionary group has went into a third world country trying to do good and ended up pissing off state officials.
I'm not justifying or condoning Silsbys actions, I just need more evidence to support the claim that Silsbys intended take children and provide them to pedophiles.
Questions unanswered:
Did Silsby have a relationship with Clinton prior to Clinton's intervention in the case?
Did Silsby associate with any known pedophiles?
Has Silsby carried out missions in other countries where children have been abducted or reported missing?
Why would Silsby go through the trouble to get state approval from Haiti and the DR for child addiction? Doesn't that bring more attention to her actions? I'm sure it would not be too difficult to abscond unnoticed with children after a natural disaster like the Haitian earthquake.
Using occam's razor for human behaviour is as useless as using social darwinism. Don't fall into that trap. I'm laughing my ass off reading all these comments with pizzagaters but am seeing posts like yours mirroring their pattern.
You realize that Hillary has broken a large number of laws, and will not be prosecuted under the current administration due to corruption right? She blatantly violated the law with her email server and Clinton Foundation bribery/Pay to Play. Do you seriously think she would be brought to task for breaking protocol? Wikileaks literally released emails where her legal counsel/advisors were openly discussing the fact that the State Department was helping to keep certain emails of hers from the Senate Oversight Committee.
This isn't a black and white legal issue due to corruption which has subverted the integrity of the law. Publicizing this information is the best bet we have to ensure something gets done about it down the road.
And Silsby formed a charity which was meant to build an orphanage which was never followed through on. Her lawyer was later himself convicted of human trafficking. She's dirty and blatantly guilty. I'm pretty convinced you either haven't read up on the case at all or are being incredibly disingenuous about it based on your response.
As far as other Clinton's criminality I am sure she should be indicted for something.
I don't understand why you would immediately jump to a pedophile ring. Silsby and others had clearance from one state government to rescue refugees. They thought they had clearance from Haiti and thought the people they were working with were providing them with orphans. How does this translate to these people are providing children to the podestas?
I didn't jump to conclusions about a pedophile ring, I've only ever pointed out that the Clintons have a pretty weird way of associating with sex offenders. Others have done made those jumps.
Silsby stole those kids from families, they weren't even orphans. The parents were lied to and told the kids would be returned to visit, and weren't informed that they'd be leaving the country. And her lawyer was subsequently convicted of human trafficking as well. That doesn't raise the possibility in your mind that there might have possibly been a criminal conspiracy? She wasn't acting above board on this.
It definitely is a possibility I don't rule anything out but I just need more proof. Who knows maybe there will be a smoking gun but as of now there is not one.
We need to know more about Silsby before drawing any conclusions.
Has she done this before?
Did she know Clintons before Haiti?
Did she associate with any known pedophiles?
What approval did she have to rescue children from Haitian officials?
Further, why attempt to go through the state approval process if you are going to abduct children? Doesn't that draw unnecessary attention?
Of course, there will likely not be a smoking gun revealed until January at the very earliest when the administration changes.
Ironically, yes she did do this before. She tried to take 40 children out of the country prior to her arrest and was told not to do this without proper permits. This email shows she was driving around Haiti with a bus, snatching kids off the street:
In regards to the other questions, I have not looked into that and would have to do further research.
Lots of companies went through the state approval process to violate the law and engage in corruption. Getting the veneer of state approval is important if you are going to have a proper cover story so that questions are not asked. Just look at the long paper trail of donations which were made to the Clintons from companies who immediately received economic exemptions upon giving money. The State Department was staffed at top levels with people who were either Clinton cronies or were still actually employed at the Clinton Foundation simultaneously which is also blatantly illegal.
Clinton was stupid and never thought she was going to be caught for this stuff. Otherwise she wouldn't have been keeping her emails on an unsecured personal server in the first place. She just assumed she wasn't going to get burned for this.
The clinton foundation showed the most evidence of human trafficking.
And suspicions of arms dealings and selling american secrets (not proven yet in the public eye) Wish we really had the rest of those emails.
HERE is a list of evidence with sources, put together in a easy to digest and professional manner. Please I know reddit is great and all but Voat has this sticky now where all our best finds will be put into.
Do not get stuck into relying on only 1 website for information about this. As any of the chans, voat, reddit, or really any place where "intelligent" conversation can lead to more finds and documented "coincidences".
And by the most evidence of human trafficking you mean what?
The list your references makes a ton of assumptions to reach a predetermined conclusion. Take the "code" for example. Podesta is an avid cook and it would not be unusual for him to speak about food and cooking. why would a group of pedophiles talk in a code that is readily identified by the FBI as code. Wouldn't it make more sense to speak in code not associated with pedophilia?
Listen man, if someone comes here and says "if it's true just prosecute them yourself" you can be sure they aren't contributing a thing to the community.
I downvoted them and called them out and you tried to tell me you were watching me like some big brother bullshit. If you need to ban me for that do what you gotta do.
I'm saying that if she deviated from protocol she could be charged with it, but to say she's part cast child smuggling ring without a whole lot of proof is disingenuous.
Stop calling ppl shills it adds nothing to discourse.
Or that a Christian missionary has been doing something Christian missionaries have done for years: trying to save "savages" by inserting doctrine because they think it's helping.
Skeptical is good, but you've got to realize that the kids cannot fend for themselves. Even the slightest chance that this shit might be real is despicable to ignore. And we are far beyond 'slight chance' at this point.
No, he's saying that if you had any solid evidence, you'd provide it. He's also saying that it is literally impossible to convince you otherwise. He's also saying that if you're the one making the outrageous claim, you're the one that needs to provide evidence.
There's the slightest chance earth gets struck by a meteor right now should be try to do something about it? Again, I've asked users many times for hard direct evidence that could be used by the AG or a prosecutor to indict. If you have anything that you think fits this standard please send it my way, would like to look at it.
Indict? We aren't pretending to have a smoking gun that will put someone in prison. All pizzagate researches want is for someone to look into this without discrediting it as a wild conspiracy theory. I don't know where you got the idea that people on /r/conspiracy expect to replace the judicial process.
A proper investigation into pizzagate, based on all that has been unearthed already, could determine whether there are any 'smoking guns' you're so in need of. Until that happens, nothing is black and white. It's just silly to approach this issue that way.
Then you have to see that this shit has nearly devolved into a bunch of people taking justice into their own hands. Shit, one person has already to decided to take justice upon themselves and go to the goddamn place with a gun.
If you people genuinely think this is a true thing, stop acting like fucking weirdos and work withing the framework of law and logic.
I'm just saying that clearly our modern justice system is not able to work out a solution for the whole scandal. If it was, we wouldn't have to create stuff like /v/pizzagate and do researches on our own.
I'm definitely not saying justice is to be done with a gun, i just disagree with /u/dabullus113 who is so in need of a hard direct evidence for the scandal to even be real in the first place.
Because he's asking for what ANY reasonable person would ask for. Evidence. Not conjecture based on things that you think might be right because an anonymous person put something on the internet.
YOU need to take responsibility for the unhinged people that you set off with baseless conjecture. People dying because of some whacked out evidence free bullshit you posted online is completely unacceptable.
Christ, if you people were even remotely responsible and really wanted to expose whatever your weird crusade of the month is, you'd figure out why the hell everyone thinks you're whack jobs, address those concerns, then proceed in a logical, peaceful and reasonable manner.
You don't always need a hard direct proof to close cases, let alone beginning a proper investigation.
No one is saying "we're definitely governed by pedos", we just want an investigations out of clear, undeniably "weird" e-mails.
Remember that /r/pizzagate was shutdown; remember that reddit admins are not impartial; remember that the media is owned by just a handful of corporations.
You don't always need a hard direct proof to close cases, let alone beginning a proper investigation. No one is saying "we're definitely governed by pedos", we just want an investigations out of clear, undeniably "weird" e-mails.
Yes you do, and you satisfy the first point with the second point. Pizzagate was shut down (like every other subreddit that has been shut down) because shit on the internet started to interfere with real life. In this particular case, it's life threatening.
No they're not impartial. And I don't blame them. They have no need to be. He was receiving hundreds of messages calling him a pedophile, threatening him, and generally harassing him. Also, there's a difference between the idea of free speech and the right to free speech.
You guys have thing hang up about "how you're being censored". It's not someone trying to stop you from discussing whatever, it's because you guys travel from place to place breaking rules. If you were serious about trying to get public attention on this, you'd stop acting like abrasive weirdos. Do you honest to god think the general public would ignore you if you had legitimate evidence that something like this was actually happening?
Also, try using the image hosting platform that wasn't made to slur a religion. That might help your credibility.
First of all thanks for discussing this in the first place, many leave their arguments after the first reply.
Yes you do, and you satisfy the first point with the second point. Pizzagate was shut down (like every other subreddit that has been shut down) because shit on the internet started to interfere with real life. In this particular case, it's life threatening.
You should probably take a look at this. No one needed a hard proof to persecute Assange nor Iraq (oh btw), just to make a few "important" examples.
And no, it's not inherently life threatening. Nobody here is trying to harm potential criminals, it's just a guy (it could still be a false flag OP for all we know) with a really hard life.
If you were serious about trying to get public attention on this, you'd stop acting like abrasive weirdos. Do you honest to god think the general public would ignore you if you had legitimate evidence that something like this was actually happening?
Conspiracy theorists are by definition weirdos, and not for the right reasons; luckily there aren't that many "paranoid" ones here, just healthy questioning. Either way, labeling is always wrong a priori.
As i previously said, the media is controlled by an extremely restrict group of privates: i do think we wouldn't be listened (this is just a taste), it's not that hard to control "our kind of stuff", they have all the excuses in the world.
Also, try using the image hosting platform that wasn't made to slur a religion. That might help your credibility.
The credibility factor varies based on the reader's mindset: if you wanted to ignore all the labels you related to that specific site (i don't know the site, nor anything about your accusations, i just googled something real quick and that came up) you could have concentrated on the content, which i'm sure we can all agree, is what counts.
i just googled something real quick and that came up) you could have concentrated on the content, which i'm sure we can all agree, is what counts.
No. I can go make some random blog or imgur post that accuses whoever of whatever. The source absolutely matters. If I went into a conservative site citing nothing but huffington post, what do you think would happen to my argument? People would slap it down for being biased. Slimgur was created as a direct reaction to Imgur banning racist, sexist and dangerous images.
Also, Persecute and prosecute are two completely different things. Prosecuting Assange would be done by a recognized court of law, using evidence from both sides.
You don't always need a hard direct proof to close cases, let alone beginning a proper investigation.
Right there you just said you just said that you were willing to close (prosecute) a case based on an investigation that you admit isn't proper.
And no, it's not inherently life threatening. Nobody here is trying to harm potential criminals, it's just a guy (it could still be a false flag OP for all we know) with a really hard life.
You're disregarding the first actual action that is provable in this entire thing because it doesn't agree with what you want it to say. A man walked into this pizza parlor with a rifle and fired a round. However, you refuse to take any sort of responsibility for this, because you think that everything that has ever happened is a false flag.
No. I can go make some random blog or imgur post that accuses whoever of whatever. The source absolutely matters.
I wasn't talking about sources, i was talking about credibility. The environment in which you read information should not influence your rational sense over the actual content. The source always matters, but when you link to a picture (on any site dedicated for that) you're hoping your interlocutor is going to valuate the picture itself. The picture i linked has links on it, those are all the source you need. In fact, you should have doubts even if you just "took a walk" on wikileaks.
Also, Persecute and prosecute are two completely different things. Prosecuting Assange would be done by a recognized court of law, using evidence from both sides.
Ah, i apologize. The word "persecute" is what you would call a "false friend" in my native language. Prosecute, i meant prosecute.
Right there you just said you just said that you were willing to close (prosecute) a case based on an investigation that you admit isn't proper.
Huh? Nono i believe Assange has no reason at all to be prosecuted, there's no case to begin with. Tell you what, Assange (who we're not hearing anything from since October) should win the nobel prize imo...
What i'm saying is that thanks to the USA Patrioct Act the US government is free to detain anyone who is only remotely suspected to be outlaw. No hard proof needed there see? Also, can we agree that US's behavior towards the middle east is the one of a bully? An illegal, criminal behavior, in fact.
A man walked into this pizza parlor with a rifle and fired a round. However, you refuse to take any sort of responsibility for this, because you think that everything that has ever happened is a false flag.
I don't make propaganda in this scandal, i'm just interested, and i believe someone is trying to keep a secret about it. National interest secrets make no sense at all really...
I'm not responsible for the action of a madman (and don't make me go into the determinism concept here). Again: some people are ignorant enough to threaten of violent things, others just want answers. Not to be labeled again and again and again.
But, I'm sure those are all false flags, right?
Why are you implying so called "free thinkers" tend to label everything as false flags? All i said is that we can't exclude that the shooting was a FFOP. You're certainly not one, nor is most of those who disagree with "us" (whatever "us" is; you have to understand people are varied, we're not a cohesive group who all think the same way in here).
This is the blind labeling i'm talking about, it's subconscious and something it's always good to be aware of.
Ah, i apologize. The word "persecute" is what you would call a "false friend" in my native language. Prosecute, i meant prosecute.
Fair enough. Excellent English BTW.
Huh? Nono i believe Assange has no reason at all to be prosecuted, there's no case to begin with. Tell you what, Assange (who we're not hearing anything from since October) should win the nobel prize imo...
You don't always need a hard direct proof to close cases, let alone beginning a proper investigation
Well, what is it? Do we go off wild accusations and hang people in the town square or do we go through the established legal channels and give them a fair trial?
They want to try him for rape in Switzerland. Using an established court system.
I don't make propaganda in this scandal, i'm just interested, and i believe someone is trying to keep a secret about it. National interest secrets make no sense at all really...
I'm not responsible for the action of a madman (and don't make me go into the determinism concept here). Again: some people are ignorant enough to threaten of violent things, others just want answers. Not to be labeled again and again and again.
Well, then you need to realize who your compatriots are in this sub. This is apparently completely ok to some members. You have a duty to consider and try to prevent shit like that and the guy shooting things up if you're discussing these things.
Why are you implying so called "free thinkers" tend to label everything as false flags? All i said is that we can't exclude that the shooting was a FFOP. You're certainly not one, nor is most of those who disagree with "us" (whatever "us" is; you have to understand people are varied, we're not a cohesive group who all think the same way in here).
I have yet to see ANY major event in history not called a false flag and wildly upvoted here. That's part of why it's almost impossible to argue with conspiracy theorists. It's either
I'm not responsible for the action of a madman
or
All i said is that we can't exclude that the shooting was a FFOP.
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Well, what is it? Do we go off wild accusations and hang people in the town square or do we go through the established legal channels and give them a fair trial?
They want to try him for rape in Switzerland. Using an established court system.
The charge for espionage is punished with either life sentence or death penalty, so what you call a "fair" trial would be an unlawful punishment. All Assange did was journalism, the real one, and yet the US is scared of him for some reason, surely they don't have secrets to hide right?
Well, then you need to realize who your compatriots are in this sub. This is apparently completely ok to some members. You have a duty to consider and try to prevent shit like that and the guy shooting things up if you're discussing these things.
There are tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists (in fact some could argue they are artificially inserted in discussions just to make sane theories seem stupid), it's undeniable, but this sub does not represent them.
I had never heard of these theories about Sandy Hook, and i would certainly think twice before giving it relevance, but people must understand how easily truthcanbebent (just to take a few examples).
I have yet to see ANY major event in history not called a false flag and wildly upvoted here. That's part of why it's almost impossible to argue with conspiracy theorists.
But it makes sense see? It's because most (recent) historical events are artificial that they become relevant. Again, there are hella exaggerations, and researched events are not that many, but i think the difference here is in mindsets: it wouldn't make sense without FFOPs.
9/11 subject is pretty insistently mentioned, but it's because it's a great example of all i said earlier: lies, excuses and FFOPs coverage. All it takes is a rational mind, a tiiiny bit of interest and a tiiiny bit of will. Try this and let me know if you disagree.
The charge for espionage is punished with either life sentence or death penalty, so what you call a "fair" trial would be an unlawful punishment. All Assange did was journalism, the real one, and yet the US is scared of him for some reason, surely they don't have secrets to hide right?
I'm certainly not qualified to say whether someone should be charged with espionage. That level of law is WAY the fuck out of my league. I have really ambivalent feelings about that type of law (including Chelsea Manning).
However, my main interest isn't in the whole Intel game. I want to know about the rape accusations. If he's innocent, good. Justice was served. If he's guilty, good. Justice was served. However, there is absolutely no way I'm going to believe he's some fountain of truth (as I once did) due to his actions during the election.
There are tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists (in fact some could argue they are artificially inserted in discussions just to make sane theories seem stupid), it's undeniable, but this sub does not represent them.
Remember when I said
I have yet to see ANY major event in history not called a false flag and wildly upvoted here. That's part of why it's almost impossible to argue with conspiracy theorists. It's either
I'm not responsible for the action of a madman
or
All i said is that we can't exclude that the shooting was a FFOP.
or being called a shill.
You just told me you are absolutely willing to call an opposing opinion a shill.
But it makes sense see? It's because most (recent) historical events are artificial that they become relevant. Again, there are hella exaggerations, and researched events are not that many, but i think the difference here is in mindsets: it wouldn't make sense without FFOPs.
You just said that most of this shit wouldn't make sense unless they are shills. And then you go on to reference the grandmother of them all, 9/11/
You just outright told me that you refuse to even acknowledge that shitty things might be done by crazy fucking assholes. You refuse to even accept that that any of these things could be done by crazy assholes. Except for where you admitted:
I'm not responsible for the action of a madman (and don't make me go into the determinism concept here).
However, my main interest isn't in the whole Intel game. I want to know about the rape accusations. If he's innocent, good. Justice was served. If he's guilty, good. Justice was served. However, there is absolutely no way I'm going to believe he's some fountain of truth (as I once did) due to his actions during the election.
He's not guilty until proven so, but as i said this doesn't really matter because if Assange ever left the embassy he would be extradited to the US and probably killed.
Although i think both Clinton and Trump were disasters, i must acknowledge that Assange was the man who brought Trump to victory. I honestly think noone would have voted for Hillary if they were fully informed on her: Wikileaks has only reported the facts.
You just told me you are absolutely willing to call an opposing opinion a shill.
Sure i would, but only if i thought my interlocutor is such. Are you trying to say shills don't exist?
You just said that most of this shit wouldn't make sense unless they are shills. And then you go on to reference the grandmother of them all, 9/11
Nope i said that a world where FFOPs happen makes way more sense than a world without them. It just completes the puzzles of a mad existence. We know they happened, why wouldn't they do it again.
Listen, 9/11 was an inside job. If there's anything at all i would hold on to it's that. I believe the 5 minutes video i linked was enough to raise some doubts, but then again you're always free to disagree, i'd just like a reason.
You just outright told me that you refuse to even acknowledge that shitty things might be done by crazy fucking assholes.
I didn't! I said we cannot exclude the possibility a priori: it would be irrational and dangerous.
I realize this discussion might start to become annoying, but from what i've gathered the difference is in mindset: you tend to exclude conspiracies to happen in the first place, despite the fact that a super short research would demonstrate the countrary.
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You are completely willing to disregard the work of multiple government agencies, most of whom are the most powerful intelligence apparatuses on earth. But you're absolutely willing to trust random weird ass people (a lot of whom believe the earth is flat, fluoride is some evil conspiracy, and that Jews control the world) on youtube and and this site.
I'm not even remotely sure how you managed to come up with this conspiracy. Nearest I can seem to find is that you took an old abbreviation that is years old from 4chan, and then somehow linked it to a pizza place that was mentioned in an email from someone you didn't like.
You somehow decided that this place was a a front for a child sex slave ring, then went looking for evidence that supported your view, disregarding anything that said otherwise. When you think the ENTIRE world is wrong and you're the only one who knows the truth, there's no way to convince you otherwise.
You are completely willing to disregard the work of multiple government agencies, most of whom are the most powerful intelligence apparatuses on earth. But you're absolutely willing to trust random weird ass people (a lot of whom believe the earth is flat, fluoride is some evil conspiracy, and that Jews control the world) on youtube and and this site.
Do you realize that what CIA is forwarding is a conspiracy theory? And it's a tinfoil hat kinda theory. I mean we're talking 0 proofs, and yet the US MSM is already bringing it in TV (also, the post got 5 gold donations!).
Sure the CIA is powerful... but that's my point to being with!
To say that flat earthers, ecc are "our people" is back to that labeling i was talking about. Distinct between good conspiracies and bad ones. Either way, to say that fluoride is dangerous is a fact, it's just that it also has plus sides when it comes to teeth health, so we keep it in water (and i'm fairly ok with that). It's also not arguable to say that many powerful people are jews (George Soros comes to mind...), but that's not a conspiracy theory, nor something we should care about.
I'm not even remotely sure how you managed to come up with this conspiracy. Nearest I can seem to find is that you took an old abbreviation that is years old from 4chan, and then somehow linked it to a pizza place that was mentioned in an email from someone you didn't like.
Hold on a minute: i didn't come up with it, nor i actively support it. All i say is that the way it's been disregarded and ignored by the public is ludicrous. There is enough "weird stuff" to at least open a proper investigation.
NINJAEDIT: I thought i answered you on your last response, i guess the mex got lost while routing. I feel like the discussion has changed now and i don't feel like rewriting it, but lemme know if you'd like me to.
That's the point. We'd be absolutely fucked if skepticism was looked down on.
This place is doing it in an irresponsible manner. People are going to get hurt. If you seriously want the truth, you'd make sure that nobody went off half cocked and harassed or hurt someone.
Yeah, my agenda is determining, at my leisure, whether any of you researchers over multiple platforms have found direct evidence which links he alleged parties to the alleged acts.
You're not cross-examining and nobody is obliged to engage with you if they don't want. We're trying to get to the truth here, not win a legal argument.
However, if you want to make a constructive, balanced post (ie not simply assuming the viewpoint of a defence attorney) explaining why Pizzagate is not "real", or why the Podesta emails are not evidence of criminality, the mods will consider stickying it.
Obviously 2. Pizzagate is not "real" because all of the evidence I have seen is circumstantial in nature, meaning there is no definitive link between the parties involved and the actions claimed by users. I ask for a smoking gun because I am interested in examining the "best" evidence.
It's a discussion about a fucking conspiracy. Why would it have a 'smoking gun'? Is there a smoking gun in the death of MLK? JFK? Hunter S Thompson? Is there one for 9/11? Syrian chemical weapons attacks? The rigged primaries? USS Cole? Flight MH370?
Why are you banging on about smoking guns? Unless you have video footage of a criminal committing a crime you build a case of evidence. Sit back and watch it build rather than spouting bollocks about needing hard evidence of something that would be vehemently covered up.
Showing Direct evidence is how you prove things. Until you can show direct evidence of what you say happened you have nothing.
I've been watching this build since the inception of the theory and nothing significant has been uncovered to definitively show what is being alleged. Too many assumptions and logical jumps for me to believe.
It's disingenuous to attempt to isolate a single piece of circumstantial evidence so you can refute it. You know as well as I do that this conspiracy theory relies on a mountain of evidence that has clout only when considered as an inconceivable number of damning coincidences that are being threaded together as the Internet investigates.
A Mountain of evidence with tenuous connections and reaching assumptions. You refute a piece of evidence because they are all seemingly connected... this could be one of the most bogus conspiracy theories I have looked at.
Have you continued to do your own independent research into pizzagate? We are willing to help. PM me if you want to go over anything together. I assure you, the tens of thousands of people on this board are onto something, we aren't just doing this for shits and giggles my friend.
Did you even bother researching any of this yourself? When police and FBI are investigating a serial killer, do they just give up the investigaton because of a lack of a smoking gun? This is how these investigations start, man. Do you not know how this works?
Sure thing. Would you like me to do your taxes for you as well? Maybe some chores around the house? Why don't you actually put in a shred of effort towards researching pizzagate yourself before you pretend to be the master of all knowledge. Start doing some basic research, and then come back to us.
I've looked at it a decent amount and honestly have found nothing more than circumstantial evidence. If you and others are so convinced that Pizzagate is real it shouldn't be too difficult to produce a link or something that proves it somewhat definitively.
Would it be worth it if you ruined people's lives with paedophile accusations? Not saying that is the case but is that a risk you are willing to hypothetically take?
Yeah, I'm sure if Podesta released a statement saying he's not a pedophile, you guys would just stop. There is nothing anyone could say or do that would convince you, anyways.
You literally linked me to an article that explains how police "significantly changed the timeline and the accepted version of events", to use as proof that what they suspect now is guaranteed as fact.
Do you really need me to explain to you that maybe there's a chance that witnesses described two different people?
The sketches were the result of two different efit mockups of a single person. At no point has anyone from scotland yard suggested that it was two different people. So why do you think it is?
I want to know why you think that two efits from two witnesses that Scotland Yard state are the same person are two different people. What evidence do you have to suggest otherwise? These are efits, based on witness description of someone seen at the resort. Witness description and efit is imperfect hence the variances. Whats more they are generic white guy. They even look like the detective speaking to the guardian in the video in the linked article.
I don't know their lives, but if someone accused me of pedophilia I would think they were insane and would ignore them unless they were threatening me. Arguing with crazy is a lost cause.
The issue seems to be that no one is claiming to have evidence that stands on its own. "Evidence" I've seen involves phrases in e-mails, comments on photos, posters, graffiti, artwork, and other things that, taken together, supposedly point towards something.
Are those involved supposed to address every individual claim? If they provide explanations, would the "investigators" believe them?
It would be really easy to prove that horrendous shit doesn't happen at the comet pizza facility. They don't have to address every photo, they're welcome to address the theory as a whole.
My question is: where are the victims? I hear a lot about code words, symbols, political connections, etc. But where their are no victims, there's no crime committed.
Here's the one thing I really don't get in this whole Pizzagate thing. Why a pizza joint? Between stocking and maintaining a restaurant, customers, high turnover with employees, and dealing with the ever regular health inspector. Why a pizza joint? Why not a Industrial park building, or an old brick mill thats been rehabed, or a warehouse. Something not in the public eye. So please explain to me why it has to be a pizza joint.
Some say the italian food references are a nod to the vatican, where people suspect this all stems from. A stretch for sure, but if we have learned anything its that these freaks love thier symbolism.
This is where you can show newcomers to go to start learning about pizza gate.
BTW compet ping pong Shooter's father is a convicted pedophile and such other revelations in the thread. https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1465222 --comet ping pong father is convicted pedophile
Nothing that guy did is justified, vigilante justice is not accepted or pushed at all as a possible solution. People who try to associate this with what we are actually trying to do have not done their research themselves on what pizzagate is trying to accomplish.
Perhaps the new influx of people seeing this stuff is making the community look bad, coming into the message boards with nothing to add to the conversation and the questions they have answered if they actually looked through the information available.
Unfortunately the regular joe doesn't have the time to debunk and investigate every claim made on these message boards and they take lack of a differing opinion as something that is widely accepted.
When really these boards are about posting your findings and people taking that into account while doing THEIR OWN research on top of it. This is a public message board, i'm sorry but noone is going to drop a sex video here even if it proved everything true! You have to do your own research to truly know for yourself.
Is there any proof other than the sketches of "Podesta" that obviously aren't Podesta and his buddy and the instagram picture of a girl taped down by her wrists and smiling? Oh and the stupid chanspeak and "symbology" that anyone can fucking make up. Can't forget that.
Like... Please link me with proof that actually shows that a child sex ring is going on in the basement of a building that doesn't even have a basement?
All your evidence is circumstantial at best but you all treat it as stone cold fact and it emboldens people like this guy to take a gun into a pizza shop and demand to see the whole building. You're fucking dangerous and really need to think about what you all are doing to innocents all because you're bored at home and aren't able to change anything in your life so you hope to keyboard warrior your way. You're worse than a vigilante. You're the pawns being manipulated by the real "bad" guys and really doing some damage.
You can't fucking defend this guy. He did more damage to children in that restaraunt than anyone else probably ever had in there.
Step off the fucking Internet and remember these are real people's lives you're making a drama about.
Did you not grow up in a post 9/11 world? They still cut you off air and try to ruin your name by coming out against the official 9/11 story. That was fought against much more than pizzagate. Pizzagate has brought it upon themselves.
The 4 whores on CNN just now saying how people who are likely to believe in conspiracy theories like pizzagate also are the kind to become violent against the government.....so question I have is....occupy Wall Street...Dakota pipeline...bundy ranch..etc....WHEN are the masses going to stand?
Okay so let me give you an honest answer based on my perspective. First let me state that I have been following pizzagate right from the beginning and have mocked you all many times. I am also not being paid by or working for anyone to debunk or discredit this (but hey that's exactly what a shill would say, right?).
I have been on Reddit for 8 years, this account for 5 years. I have visited /r/conspiracy off and on plenty of times over the years for some good reading (and sometimes laughs) and then I leave. But pizzagate in particular bugs me enough where I feel I have to respond to it.
There are several reasons for this:
You people view it as if it were a proven fact--not some conspiracy--to the point where it is scary
You are hurting real people in real life
You are constantly brigading and commenting wherever possible to "get the word out"
And of course, anyone who disagrees with you is a shill or is in on it
Of all the posts I have read, they all come down to the initial fact that some emails with no context didn't make sense to you. The leap from that to a conspiracy is expected here; that's what makes a conspiracy theory. But then you build on that as if it were a fact and use that to make the most feeble connections. In fact, the whole motivation of /r/pizzagate was to find yet one more undiscovered connection which was validated by other readers there. By doing this, you have brought in and hurt so many innocent people. You all justify it by saying you are helping investigate pedophiles. The thing is most of you don't know the first thing about investigations and if anything you are harming any real investigation (if any) that might occur. With an investigation you take solid evidence and build a narrative. You people are doing it backwards--taking a narrative and trying to find anything you can to support it.
But think about the harm you have done to so many people. Those children who have had their faces posted all over the internet on those evidence infographics (i.e., crazy walls) will be there forever. Whenever someone googles them this is what will show up. These children will always be known as the pizzagate victims. Don't you see how messed up that is? And so many businesses will forever be tarnished by these accusations. This will harm the owners, their families, children, employees, and their families. It's one thing to come up with stuff about political and public figures, but that's just not cool to completely destroy lives because an email about a napkin seemed strange.
But the thing that gets me the most is how, at least initially, there was so much brigading and abusing sites like Reddit. I mean come on, you people bombarded Yelp with accusations to the point they had to step in and put a halt to it. And any chance you get you people bring it up in comments, even if it has nothing to do with the topic. And when someone questions you, you respond that if we would just look at the evidence we would be convinced too.
But actually some of us have looked at ALL the evidence and simply don't make the same conclusions to you. That seems to be so incomprehensible to you all that the only possible explanation is that we are being paid or are otherwise involved in covering it up. In reality, there are people who simply disagree with you and disapprove of the damage you are causing. That's why /r/pizzage was shut down and why youtube videos get taken down, etc. You are hurting people with your conspiracy theories.
Now I am saying you but I don't really mean you all in particular. This subreddit has done a fair job of keeping things in line and I commend you all for it. But seriously, do you really believe that there is this massive army of shills trying to shut you down to protect an underground pedophile ring? Or is the more likely explanation that we simply don't agree with you? Are you really surprised that people call you crazy when you say that this is the biggest conspiracy in history that involves hundreds or even thousands of people, including most of the government and media? Or is the most likely explanation that you do sound a little crazy when you say that?
Seriously dude, people aren't freaking out because you are exposing a well-connected pedophile ring. People are shocked at how far so many people have taken this and who are completely convinced of it's truth and will absolutely not be persuaded otherwise.
But hey, if everyone wasn't in on it, it wouldn't be much of a conspiracy, would it?
Additional evidence is required to claim you someone is a child rapist and a pedophile. It is dangerous and stupid to claim such things without proof. Witch.Hunt. Not Freaking Out. Annoyed at morons like you who don't need evidence to believe in some code words a troll of 4chan made up. Fuck off
DON'T NEED TO PROVE WHEN YOU ARE THE ONES CLAIMING INSANE THINGS BASED ON CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, Suspected Pedophile /u/inbetweentime. See how it works? Now you're suspected. I'll ask again, cause i responded to lots of people, what's the proof of the code? I thought David Seaman said it was "well-known pedophile code" ...if it's so well-known where's the proof. I am actively asking in every possible place I can and nobody knows the answer. I'll help: IT ISN'T PEDOPHILE CODE, NOR IS THERE PROOF THOSE WORDS ARE CODE
I'm not a shill, Pizzagate is just stupid and dangerous. Sometimes when a lot of people tell you you're wrong it's actually not a sign that you're extra right.
How about when all of those 'people' suddenly pipe up in the course of 24 hours, while for the previous 6 weeks people had actually been assessing things rationally? gtfo.
Because it's hitting the news and /r/all. Why is this so hard to understand? I'm on this thread because I saw it on all, it's not some mysterious coincidence.
Oh so you're literally here arguing with people who have been researching for a month and half, because you just saw it on /r/all and know nothing about it. Fucking terrific, welcome. Yes all those people must be idiots, what were they thinking?
I looked at the evidence, and yeah, some of it makes the posters look pretty dumb. "Oh look his shirt says I <3 L'enfants! EXPLAIN THAT?!" There's a neighborhood in DC called L'enfants. Like, if your level of analysis doesn't catch that kind of thing instantly, I'm not sure it counts as analysis.
"This guy likes gross pedo art!" By a popular artist with a lot of fans.
I haven't seen a single thing in all of the "evidence" that looks like something you could prosecute.
Of course, some of it is genuinely dumb and some of it is probably planted to make us look dumb. If you think we're all passionate about this all because of a freaking t-shirt and some art, and you want to argue with us, that's your problem but your uninformed opinion is doing zero good.
In their June study, the foundation decided to examine groups “engaged in violent extremist activity” and found that white extremists were by far the most dangerous.
I'm against it because someone brought a gun into a pizza place yesterday and fired off two rounds. And it's probably going to get this subreddit banned.
So wait... you're saying you're opposed to the investigation of people who might potentially have horrendously sick shit going on with kids, because somebody brought a gun into a pizza place? Or am I misunderstanding
So which parts of the investigation did you find faulty? Can you explain to me each piece of evidence you found to be lacking, and WHY you found it to be lacking? Do you propose another potential explaination for all of this?
No, because you're thinking in a very close minded way. Nobody on this forum promoted violence of any sort. We are all non partisan and we don't condone the actions of the lone individual from yesterday's "incident". Infact, it is likely that this "shooting" was a false flag used to demonize our investigation and make it look like a violent witchunt.
The evidence is 100% circumstantial. And some of it has been clearly doctored, such as the edited comedian video at comet pizza. Lastly there is a large group of people with vested interest in pushing this story.
Could you provide a few more examples of this "doctored" evidence you mention?
If you came to the conclusion that pizzagate is a farce, then you must have tirelessly and endlessly did research and familiarized yourself with the basic rudimentary aspects of it to come to that conclusion, correct?
No, you didn't. You took the "fake news" narrative at face value like anyone else who didn't take 30 mins to dig into any of it. If we were speaking in person, I could easily expose you as being full of shit in minutes, because you don't even have a basic rudimentary understanding of the investigation, and therefore your opinion holds no merit. Either that, or you're CTR, and this post is about all the shills on this sub in the first place, so you have no power here...
I have looked at all the evidence posted to this sub, and so far it has been 100% circumstantial. I dare you to post something that is not. You go on about doing your research, but then you go on to label me a CTR shill without looking through my comment history to see that I'm pretty much the opposite. Why should I trust you when you immediately fail at the most basic critical thinking?
Why should we earn your trust on an open investigation? If you aren't willing to accept the fact its an OPEN investigation that at the very least has uncovered evidence of a huge money laundering operation and possibly lead to (another) elite pedophile ring. Nobody here is trying to sell you anything, you are acting like its our job to convince you. Its not, nobody here is doing this for money, they are doing it because the evidence speaks for itself. Youre not entitled to anything, if you dont beleive the evidence, thats fine, but fuck off, nobody gives a fuck about youre inability to piece simple pieces of evidence together.
There are no victims. There would be victims by now besides people that make pizza. Go ahead and call the police and file a report with your name on it if you want to continue to push the point that you've found something worth pursuing. I'm definitely not stopping you. The police take the kind of accusations you're making super serious, I promise you.
Did it occur to you that the victims might be dead by now?
And if some of them are alive: Who would believe them? What incentive would they have to talk?
Kids have stepped forward in the past, claiming to be victims of satanic sexual abuse. But they're being laughed at by adult "skeptics". Their stories are being dismissed. No one takes them seriously.
People have even claimed to be victims of sex abuse at the hands of Hillary and Bill.
Oh absolutely, and they should. However, since law enforcement hasn't been willing to investigate this themselves (likely because there are some extremely powerful people implicated here), WE have taken it upon ourselves to do THEIR jobs. We are quietly and patiently investigating this stuff on our own without the help of law enforcement, and we've done a pretty damn good job.
You wouldn't discourage someone from doing an independent investigation into a potential pedophilia ring, would you? Especially one that could potentially involve some of your "public servants"?
If you wanna talk more, PM me sometime man. I'm more than willing to go over some things with you and maybe I can open you up to this stuff a little bit.
don't PM this guy. I PM'd him a few hours back after seeing a similar post like this and he not so subtly tried to invite me to participate in violent shit. Guy is pretending to be a Pizzagate investigator and leading people into legal trouble. Tag him in RES and stay the fuck away from him. Just a heads up for everyone
Lol, this is the first time I've seen a shill actually promote a blatant lie. Guys are desperate now, eh?
Look at my post history, it's filled with promotion of anti-violence for this cause. We can't promote a violent mentality on this sub or we will get banned.
Let the record show that user "parachronic" is blatant CTR.
EDIT: Somebody document this with a screenshot, this is a perfect example of CTR we could use this as an example for a portfolio or something.
More like infiltrated by shills which wanna tell us how its the "biggest conspiracy in histoy" and how we should all care about.
Since this US voting bullshit this sub here is spammed with shit. Its insane. People here are here because they can think by themself. We dont need others to think for us. And thats why i can not take this "pizzagate" drama serious here in this sub. 90% of all postings is bullshit - it feels like the MSM tries to plant a story here.
I really wish the moderators would make one thread for Pizzagate and move all this postings, so we can have back our sub.
so in one line - "dont tell me how i have to think about"
Exactly. This place went to shit with the election, donald trump and his retard posse infiltrated hard. Was hoping it would clear up after the election but nope.
It hasn't been neutral. Ever. It's always been very, very antisemitic, alt right based. That's why people discredit it. That, and because it's all a bunch of bullshit.
Thats not true at all. I've been visiting this sub for 4 years and I've never seen anybody promote any anti-semitism and it's not "alt-right" based, most people here reject the two party system entirely.
I guess you wouldn't know that though, because I dug through your post history you've only even posted here once in the last two months. I'm sure you rarely even visit this sub, who are you to make a claim that this is a anti-semetic/conservative based group?
Good luck with whatever the hell you're trying to prove..
Which is exactly what the Rothschilds Zionists want, to blend in with a larger population that is historically a victim, that way they can always play the victim card as they conquer others
It's like saying that attacking Bush over 9/11 is being anti-Christian because Bush was a vocal Christian and the US is primarily Christian. The KKK is a Christian group. I can confidently say that they are a conspiracy of evil people and not be condemning of Christianity.
I've been lurking on reddit for years. Back when Gasthekikes was still here ya know? And yeah, sorry, but there is a lot of antisemitism in here. Sorry. Jews control the media shit is everywhere in here. And it's all just a bunch of baseless bullshit accusations with no evidence at all to back it up. Guess that's what a conspiracy is though.
This subreddit didn't have a right leaning until the 2016 election, when all the Trump people were basically forced here by being banned everywhere else. I still think reddit did that intentionally, destroying this community by forcing mass immigration of bad people, same thing they did to voat
Most all conspiracy forums were pretty neutral back in the 90's when I first got interested in conspiracy theories. It was mostly stuff about JFK, NSA spying (which is one that conspiracy theorists nailed), and some overlap with aliens.
When Bush Jr. became president, the community got mildly left-leaning. But when Obama won, and Alex Jones got really popular a bunch of alt-right survivalist types joined in. But even then, they were usually focused on the shit that went down in Waco with the Branch Davidians in the 80's, and things like that. Understandable and credible theories.
With T_D and this election, we've been overrun with idiocy. And it's extremely right-leaning.
There have always been conspiracy theorists who are basically level-headed skeptics who rightly distrust the government, and the true believers who cry 'lizard people' at every glitch in their tv. But lately there seem to be way more of the 2nd type.
But it seems like that happens with everything good once it becomes popular. Add in credible stuff like CTR which just bolsters their beliefs, and here we are.
This place went to shit when Reddit forced all of the subs they dislike into here.
Don't blame the people for going where their voice can be heard, blame Reddit for taking the actions they did to subvert communities.
Soon, Reddit will shut this place down and then you and I will be looking for a place to be heard along with them. Emphasize with them (because you're next).
Exactly. So much goddamn bullshit has been pushed by Trumpsters during the past year that it's hard to take anything like this seriously. And calling everyone who isn't in with it shills?
So generally speaking.....
why delete it/ban it, now that the new nifty filter is in place? There's some super fucked up subreddits already that won't get banned the same way
The sub was banned to avoid another Boston bombing incident where Reddit detectives fucked up real bad. It was also banned before they implemented the filters.
I said it yesterday, this whole thing is a 'discredit and distract' operation. It's being planted and spread to make it look like the free thinkers are going to be lumped into this group of idiots, and won't be listened to when real shit goes down because we'll all be associated with this obviously false conspiracy.
I've been a long time reader over 8 years and 3 accounts, and this sub used to be a pretty great read now and then and lead to some pretty interesting discussion and counterarguments. But if you even question the amount of evidence with pizzagate people immediately jump on you, call you a shill and act like you're perpetuating child trafficking since for some reason we have to believe this speculation with no concrete evidence at all, there's evidence and some of it is okay but nothing concrete enough to warrant near this much spam and individual threads.
Hey fuck tard this is conspiracy sub... Where Bigfoot and ET rom the land if you can't stand a conspiracy that could actually be true about how power corrupts ... Then fuck off shill this is not a place for you.
Now you guys are turning on your own kind. This is what happens people.
You go so deep in the rabbit hole you turn on your own people because your paranoia literally switches off any critical thinking faculties left in some corner of your brain.
Pizzagate is the modern day crusade of the anti intellectuals. It has now officially enabled the fringe portions of the political party to target their political opponents to use "won't sumboddy pls think of the CH-CH-CHILDRENNNN!!!"excuse to possibly shame or worse, actually physically harm people.
I don't think it is their own kind per se. I think the guy shooting up the Pizza place drew a lot of attention into this sub and many of these these onlookers are either very frustrated or here to troll. At this point I'm not sure what would convince people that this was just some stupid rumor that was started on 4chan (probably for entertainment) and that Commet Pizza is nothing more than a place that sells pizza.
Wow dude! This is really reasonable! I see you're a moderator. Dude what is going on with this sub? I just posted something about Russian propaganda and got swarmed by people who were rejecting something that is an actual conspiracy theory. IS there a right and wrong kind of conspiracy to talk about to get along with people in this sub?
I think part of what is happening on a more of a daily basis may have to do with the increase in crossover from /r/the_donald. An increase in users who are more susceptible to believing in wild things with zero backing behind them despite readily accessible mountains of evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying this hasn't existed before here. For a while there were flat earthers, but they were generally harmless and there weren't very many. This is different though.
Relax, I'm with you, I was just making a parody of an oft quoted trump line. I fully understand how little accuracy matters to that sub, they to this day front page the Robert Byrd kkk hoax picture from 2004. Straight up forwards from your crazy uncle.
Are you worried at all that the sub has been commandeered by users from the_donald? Because this sub is hermetically sealed. You can't point anyone to a real source because according to everyone on this sub, all of the real sources are part of a conspiracy. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But no matter who you are or what you're talking about or what sub you're in, there should be a respect for logic and proper argumentation. You can't just dismiss something out of hand with no evidence. But it seems like that's what the people here do. I shared something about a new effort to investigate Russian propaganda and the top comment was something like, "is that you Podesta?" Just no desire for a healthy discourse with those who disagree with you.
Different posts bring different different demographics out. I've seen trolls exploit the hell out of this to label this sub every which way. When you posted about Russian propaganda you pressed the hot button as far as users of the_donald were concerned. Not all posts attract this crowd. But one about Jews, mens rights, racial issues, and Russia will. On other posts not about hot topics, if this crowd is there at all they may blend in to some degree as not all conspiracies have and political learning to them.
This gentleman has demonstrated my point.
Feels no obligation whatsoever to raise evidence in support of his claim that this conversation is scripted.
What would it take to have a conversation where both parties just assume that they're talking to an informed, rational person with an opposing point of view? Even if they don't believe the opposing point of view, assuming the conversation is being had in good faith a prerequisite for a philosophically useful conversation. Because you want the best ideas to win out in the marketplace of ideas. So if you can falsify the strongest arguments, your arguments are better. Whereas if you attack the source of the arguments, that's ad hominem. You never get to the point of separating the true and false things that come out of your opponent's mouth because you've already dismissed your opponent out of hand.
So now I'm talking to GayBoyAdvanced. Let's try this exercise. What is your issue exactly with our conversation? Please use precise terms.
How do you know they are shills? I think avoiding calling people shills is a pretty good policy on reddit. It just really gets you nowhere. It's bad form.
There is a sub on reddit that exists to be what this one completely fails to be. I don't want to link to it, because it will get overrun as well. But there is a place that focuses on actual conspiracies, wink wink.
The whole things predicated on the idea that old bureaucrats use the same slang as 4chan, I'm pretty sure nothing's gonna convince certain people to drop Pizzagate at this point. The guy who shot up Comet Pizza gave himself up to the police after searching the place and finding no evidence of secret tunnels, that's what it's gonna take to make the most die-hard followers think twice.
While Comet Pizza may just be a regular Pizza place there is very little doubt that there are major child pornography rings going on in Washington.
Internet focusing on Comet Pizza may be its big downfall because the MSM can push Fake news on that location. While at the same time knowing or having inclinations there are rings inside the highest levels of our government and corporate america
to use "won't sumboddy pls think of the These are the most important lessons that children can be taught in this age."excuse to possibly shame or worse, actually physically harm people.
We can rest easy in your message that "CH-CH-CHILDRENNNN!!!" are not really HU-HU-MANNNN!!!
Why would SOME see things this way? I suppose it may be because children are innocent, but more importantly, they are IMPOTENT - unseen, unheard and unable to mount a defense - let alone pose a threat to those that routinely abuse and destroy them.
At first glace it seems hard to think that could have happened, but if that guy really was convinced there were children then who to say he wasn't just trying to be a hero.
Seems to me we can trace a lot of the issues lately back to some random 4chan post.
Well at any rate some dude with a gun did search the place and then surrendered when nothing was found .
Not surprising in any case, considering the amount of time that those accused would have had to tidy things up - since the story first broke... IF there were anything to "hide", you understand...
At first glace it seems hard to think that could have happened, but if that guy really was convinced there were children then who to say he wasn't just trying to be a hero.
Indeed. Who's to say? A couple of weeks remodeling and scrubbing can cover a MULTITUDE of "sins".
And the MSM pronouncing him NOT GUILTY from day ONE certainly didn't hurt such efforts.
Seems to me we can trace a lot of the issues lately back to some random 4chan post.
Seems to me we can trace a lot of these suspicions back to MANY "random" Clinton/Podesta emails.
"Hair on my pizza? Oh YUCK!" [EDITED SEE BELOW]
Prefers prepubescents? Possibly.
Pedophiles are REAL. Their victims are REAL, and history has shown us that they tend to pervade the ELITE classes, and that they are PROTECTED by their peers - ostensibly because said peers are equally at risk.
Try shifting your motive focus from "perversion" to control via BLACKMAIL, and suddenly, it all becomes far more tenable.
EDIT: It was called to my attention that the "Hair on my pizza" quote referenced above is a fake and a forgery.
Or more likely, doesn't like finding hair on a piece of pizza. Yes there are pedophiles and they are awful people who deserve the full brunt of the law. But talking about pizza does not make someone a pedophile!!
It's pure confirmation bias until I see some REAL EVIDENCE implicating these people!!
These are literally the most powerful people on the Earth. Literally. There will never be any "real evidence" that goes public, unless there is a whistleblower.
People have died all around Clinton Foundation, strangely enough when trying to bring evidence into light. You can deny the connection between the deaths but you can't deny the deaths themselves.
Similar thing happened in Hampstead, where the entire village was complicit in conducting a pedo-ring involving 5 different elementary schools, teachers, politicians, polices, and other public figures. Guess what happened when this story started gaining traction? Children (key witnesses) were taken from the parents (still kept from the parents btw), while parents were accused of torturing their children to give false confessions. The case went cold real quick, real fast after psychiatrists confirmed sexual abuses on the children. The parents of these children are in exile and trying everything to get themselves heard and get their children back. Any "real evidence", or as the favorite talking point goes, "a real victim" who speaks out is immediately silenced.
Well I'll be damned. Thank you for pointing that out.
I deplore dishonesty, and do my best to vet and authenticate anything I quote. I failed on that one.
Shame on the bastard who forged the quote. Totally uncalled for, especially given the volume of material that is authenticated and verifiable. I can only imagine that the forger's motive was an attempt to discredit the entire inquiry by "poisoning the well".
I'll edit my comment above to note the forgery - and call it out as such if I see it referenced by others.
That would be true if (a) the irony of my statement was not lost on you (b) if I had a political affiliation to care about or an agenda to push (c) this had anything to do with politics besides for the fact that the people implemented happen to be politicians
Okay. Lets play along with your paranoia for a second. One guy falls for all that crazy shit the pizzagate people have been spreading everywhere. And that guy goes and "self investigate" this global conspiracy theory and shoots around.
Instead of playing praise for how "brave" he is, what do you people do? Double down even more! Suddenly, that guy shooting inside the pizza place is not "our"guy. He suddenly becomes "false flag" created by the liberals to discredit pizzagate. You see whats happening here? Rabbit hole that goes so deep you start to deny your own people because they took real action based on your paranoid falsehoods.
Shows how loyal they are to their cause. I see posts on r/all every day about how the MSM should be reporting this and that there should be real-life repercussions. Now that it's happened, suddenly responsibility is nowhere to be found.
I think pizzagate is real but agree that it takes an anti intellectual to make pizza gate a partisan issue. There is no doubt this cuts and likely covers both sides of the aisle.
I upvoted the post because I think the whole thing is funny. Then I upvote the reasonable comments cause it's even funnier to see people saying "THIS IS PROOF OF CTR". Can't wait to get my shill check in the mail.
Yeah, CTR has become like the invisible hand of the communists here. As soon as someone starts talking logically, the McCarthyist scare tactics come out.
I saw someone jump straight to accusing someone of inciting violence at rallies yesterday. For having an opinion on Pizzagate. It's insane.
That's a fucking joke. This sub is constantly brigaded by people from enoughtrumpspam SRS and other actual shills. The people upvoting this are the ones who actually frequent this sub.
Lol bullshit. People upvote anti-Trump language because it's inflammatory and annoying.
There isn't some agenda against you, it's just easy to hate people who lack logic or a desire to discuss facts, or anything, civilly and without extreme bias.
Exactly. I tend to enjoy reading conspiracy theories and seeing if they seem credible, but this satanic pizza ritual stuff is American Horror Story material.
It's a combination of the fact that it's amazingly ridiculous, dangerous, and also on the front page all the goddamn time. Usually the stuff from this sub that hits the front page is at least in the realm of possibility, and the crazier fringe stuff stays at the bottom where it belongs.
Now, you're regularly hitting the front page with a crazy house-of-cards theory, you're ruining lives, and now you've got a gunman showing up in DC. And you're surprised that you're attracting more attention than usual?
Literally everything Hillary did during the election was House of Cards, so I don't know why you think this is some big change of tone for the subreddit. If the MSM had just ignored this story, it would've gone away much more quickly, but now there's an international response and high-ranking people around the world are being arrested for pedophilia in other countries... I have a hard time thinking there's nothing here at all
I didn't mean HoC the TV show, I meant house of cards in that you've got a pile of lightweight facts that could be blown over by a light wind (or a moment's critical thought).
Literally everything Hillary did during the election was House of Cards
...If you literally believe every conspiracy theory about her.
If the MSM had just ignored this story, it would've gone away much more quickly
This story has spread a lot farther, a lot faster than most conspiracy theories, because of the anti-Democrat hate, around the same time that fake news is in the real news.
Add to the fact that the guy at the center is an outspoken, openly gay man who reads Butt Magazine, like every other fucking gay man who has ever existed in the world.
Oh, you mean that a decade ago he had a credit as an extra. I assumed you meant that he was acting the other day. In fact, I'm sure that is what you meant, and you consider this to be proof. Ugh.
It's funny how you change the facts to make your position seem more real and discredit me. Mute(2011). Yea that's only 5 years ago. Logical fallacy found.
What about his 5 second acting credit makes him more qualified to be a false flag crisis actor than someone without an easily googlable imdb credit? it's not like beloved character actress margo martindale went into comet pizza with a gun.
He actually has acting credits in three movies. His dad also owns a production company and has written over 30 screenplays. But you wouldn't know that, bc you haven't done any research on it and you're just here to be an asshole/disrupt discussion.
No he doesn't. But you wouldn't know that, bc you haven't done any research on it. (is production assistant an actor now? how many speaking parts has he had?)
This is true and they're out in such force and timing that it can't be anything other than organised and paid suppression teams much like CTR was. The desperation to control the narrative is astounding.
You better fight for what you believe in full force. If you allow this shit, it will be today it's Pizzagate and in the near future any other state-directed narrative they order protected.
Calling someone a CTR shill is literally the laziest argument. It doesn't address any relevant information. It is a pure ad hominem attack.
Who cares if it's a shill that you are arguing with? If the truth is on your side, prove it. Use your logic and reasoning. But don't be lazy and call anyone you disagree with a shill.
CTR was a real thing. The fact that it's shills is not something to which the solution is to just keep on speaking truth and revealing evidence and using logic. The shills know we're right, and that's why they exist. They're part of a team, not out on a fact-finding mission. They will always twist the discussion to make some sort of fallacious or emotional appeal to prevent people from questioning the official narrative at all costs.
It's OK to question the official narrative. Go ahead. It's your right. But don't expect that there won't be counterarguments. If you make a claim, you have to back it up. And don't assume that every who disagrees with you is from CTR.
My problem isn't what you're saying. My problem is the things to which you respond this way.
I'm not talking about my post specifically because I didn't provide evidence in my post, but this subreddit is replete with evidence, documents, connections and unanswered questions that have unpalatable answers no matter what the actual answer turns out to be.
When you say, "I'm just saying I want to see some evidence," you're saying it in response to evidence. It's the slimy way the powers that be attack legitimate concerns.
If you say that, you're implanting in the mind of your readers that the evidence they thought the saw is actually not evidence. They doubt the evidence that just saw because they're probably somewhat skeptical already and following the crowd is very easy to do when someone says something that reinforces your comfort zone.
People's comfort zone in this scenario is that there is no pedophile conspiracy reaching right to the top of the upper echelons of leadership in America. When someone shows evidence of that, it feels bad to learn about. When you then say there's no evidence, people can sigh in relief that there was no evidence. People are very impressionable.
I wouldn't call you a shill if you attack the evidence. Look at the false flag news reports of the shooting at Comet Ping Pong, which were supposedly written earlier than the event. I honestly haven't looked too hard into that, but if I wanted to be an honest opponent of the notion that those news reports weren't written earlier than the event, then I would say, "The evidence is false because of this," or, "The evidence doesn't lead to those conclusions because of that." That's the non-slimy, non-shill way of arguing.
Your way is to look at the evidence and say, "We need to be reasonable here folks. I would be more than willing to believe pizzagate if there was only some evidence."
Conspiracies are real. There have been many proven conspiracies, and they should go to show that your gut reaction of "Come on. No one can really believe that many people would conspire to do THAT" is an untrustworthy feeling.
Yes, there were probably at least some shills active on both sides through the election. But you guys and the_donald just dismiss anybody who disagrees with you as a shill--as your theories get more and more outlandish.
There's many skeptics that have had questions about the validity of this case that haven't been called shills because they actually ask questions about the case. Theres been plenty of users on here that have attempted to discredit specific users claims not by proving that the evidence they have is false, but by blatantly lying about the users.
That's just your opinion which is meaningless to all but yourself. The crux of my contention is that this is an organised and paid campaign of harassment and control, most likely to have emanated from the same entity that is directing the new media offensive and agit-prop advancement of "Fake News".
Let's see, your history shows that you have a 6 month account and in the last 24 hours you've launched attack after attack on posts about Pizzagate. Anyone else care to take a look? That's why I don't owe any replies to disingenuous trolls with covert agendas.
Counterarguments are not attacks. This is not your safe space. All I do is ask you to provide evidence. That's not trolling. There are tons of people who also doubt pizzagate. You act like it's the established narrative and get angry when challenged. If you're going to make a claim, don't be surprised if someone asked to to back it up.
The evidence lies before you. It's clear suppression. "Fake news" is a manifestation of the complete and utter failure of the political system to actually work for the people, as evidenced by the election and events that both preceded and followed it.
They don't give a shit about anything except control by division of the people and manufacturing reality for us. If Pizzagate is fake, freedom of speech and the press is taking a huge hit. If it's real, the result is the same. They win either way because they've initiated the process of subjugating the acquisition of knowledge and the concept of free thought.
I assume you'll respond by claiming the dangers of free thought by citing yesterday's "assault" on CPP carried out by an actor with an IMDB page that was on the fast track to jail time.
I hope you'll be able to enjoy being a prisoner in your own mind.
You're getting lots of outsiders popping in because you're hitting /r/all on a regular basis. I used to see this sub about once a month or so--more often towards the end of the election, but that was basically just the_donald spilling over. Now it's every day, and it's always pizzagate.
You know this is a perfectly self reinforcing narrative, right?
People tell you you're right because you're right, or they tell you you're wrong because you're extra right. You plan to reject all disagreement. Can you see where that might prevent you from thinking clearly about the issue?
No one is being paid to dump on this stupid shitty theory. You have a persecution complex.
Pizzagate came out of the hacked emails of a campaign chairman in this election. I can put it on an image file and draw red circles and arrows around it if you want.
Yea, we all know that buddy. But you're suggesting that the investigation is politically motivated. There are people from both parties who are implicated in this, do you understand that?
Get this man to a computer and teach him how to use google for Christ sake....
Educate yourself before you pretend to be all knowing and all wise.
When you enoughtrumpspammer douchebags brigade this sub do you not realize how hypocritical you're being when you say Thedonald should be kicked off Reddit for it? By that standard, so should you, correct?
How fucking dense are you? Not saying this isn't real, but there is still really no actual proof. So to claim "that's how you know this thing is real" is just insane.
Seems to me like most just decided pizzagate is the truth and are just looking for anything to validate it. The problem with r/conspiracy posters isn't that they're questioning, it's that they think they've got the answer before they've even begun.
I live my life on a day to day basis. I am a busy dude. I have shit to do. Outside of my early AM Reddit routine, I don't sit digging through a conspiracy perpetrated by right-wing spammers/trollers/centipedes/etc based off of a few pictures and limited data. I've read up on this, there is some evidence that makes you think, but it's grasping at straws evidence in the end. I have an incredibly open mind to it, but there is nothing to say it's definitive, and when you get nut-jobs posting here (and firing rounds at the pizza place), you're starting to lose me. People are losing track of this conspiracy and just attacking the media again when the media is again, right. This is just fake news, because it got escalated before there was any proof at all. You don't go to court with limited evidence and hope to win. If you wanted anyone or the media to take this seriously, you should of gotten more proof than what you did. But you couldn't, because there likely isn't any.
some stupid fucking quote to make what I say sound important and correct
First, "fake news" didn't hit the MSM and draw major attention until the day after pizzagate initially started (search google trends).
Second, it gets fucking suspicious when the MSM denies to basic research on the topic or, even worse, flat-out lie about it: look at BBC's comment on how Comet Pizza doesn't have a basement, but there is a recorded interview with the owner about storing sauces in the basement. Also, look at WaPo's article on Monica Petersen, a trafficking researcher who died recently under mysterious circumstances after investigating Clinton Foundation. There are clear evidence all around (FB posts from Monica herself and her friend) that Monica did indeed go to Haiti to research about Clinton Foundation and its connection to human trafficking, yet the author of that WaPo article intentionally leaves out the main parts of Monica's posts to lead the viewers on.
Third, the gunman at the pizza joint is suspected of being a false flag. The circumstances (how there is no video feed at all, no injuries, ultra-fast reaction from the police and the media, with the stories being written before the fucking thing started according to internal timestamps) are highly irregular.
Listen, I get you. I honestly thought this shit was just a hoax and started reading about it as a good joke. Then I remembered what happened in UK with high profile politician pedo-ring, and how everybody just forgot about it, without people involved punished. I'm also Korean, and something stranger than fiction, about as equally "conspiracy-y" as pizzagate, has happened and proven.
All you have to do is lose your faith in humanity, accept that there are evil fuckers wearing human masks, and just open up the possibility. There are so many uncanny coincidences, connections, and accidents around the whole pizzagate and Clinton Foundation for it to be just a pure coincidence.
Comet pizza doesn't have a basement, there's a depressed back room that is used for events/parties. I know people who have lived in that neighborhood for years and saw the foundation being poured, nothing under the floor but gravel. It's a 3 room building, kitchen, front room, back room. That idiot who shot up the place was looking for some sort of secret entrance, and wen't all through the building, it's an open floor plan building there's nowhere to hide something like that in there.
So I have your word and a published interview of the owner of the joint specifying a "basement"... I wonder which one I'm going to chose to believe. Also, nothing under the floor but gravel? There is an instagram picture of a hole leading to an underground tunnel, as well as shitton of evidence of numerous tunnels existing under the pizza place.
Aaand a conclusive evidence that you actually haven't done your research and are just here with misinformation, intentionally or not. (there was a instagram photo of the hole)
I can see that this can be upsetting to some people. Hey, if you're busy, there's no need to explain yourself to anyone. You do you, we're gonna still all do what we all do, too.
You don't go to court with limited evidence
That evidence has to get built from the ground up!
There was no hostility in anything from me so far. I hope your day gets better, though!
My day is great outside of being a bit tired. I don't have issues with people digging for evidence to piece something together. If this proves to be true then it will be one of the biggest conspiracies in history. But at this very moment, things like "that's how you know this is real" is very juvenile to say. I wish you all well in your search, but don't perpetuate information as truth until you know it is.
Yes this has the potential to be an explosive part of our current history. The conspiracy behind this is incredible. I have not gotten involved in anything outside of reading the on and off things here, but it sure makes for great thought.
This has always been a great subreddit to just "what if?"
Take care, I wish you well in your endeavours as also.
The recent traction of this conspiracy has moved this sub into /r/all. Things are naturally interesting and I never said I wasn't interested by this. Human nature makes us express our opinions on things.
So then why should we care? You don't agree with it and are misinformed about it, so why bother? Why do you have an opinion on something you don't care about? I don't care about celebrities and thus have no opinion on them and don't comment about them in their subs.
This is an insane statement. You realize how the world would work if this was how it was? Also, misinformed? I know the information you do.
You mean how the world would work if people actually knew what they were talking about? God forbid! And you know incorrect things. You called pizzagate a right wing theory, which shows the false information. There's nothing right wing about it.
Reddit is a free and open platform, come on dude.
Dude, don't take things out of context. I said I don't comment on their subs.
You mean how the world would work if people actually knew what they were talking about? God forbid! And you know incorrect things. You called pizzagate a right wing theory, which shows the false information. There's nothing right wing about it.
Your perspective shows that, but the comments in this sub says otherwise. I understand the grand scheme is non-partisan, but this all stemmed off of right-wing digging through emails to find anything to be used against HRC. I shouldn't have to clarify that I don't condone any of the things suggested in this conspiracy, and I hope that if definite proof is found that it will come to a proper light and be taken care of. Just right now the same kind of stuff that would leak from the_donald is leaking into here. There is a wide range of people tracking this conspiracy for different reasons. I'm not going to act like I know your reasoning, I just hope it is the right one. But to tell someone they can't comment in a sub (which I have been active in before if you want to dig my history) is just dumb. I'm aware of the story. I've read almost everything posted here on it. As I said I am interested and intrigued. But I am also allowed to be a countering voice when I see things going off the rails a bit. I'm not the enemy here. Neither are you. Read the comments in this thread. Calling everyone who disagrees a Shill just for disagreeing. It's just all so beaten to death. People are allowed to ask questions and doubt things, which is exactly the whole point to a conspiracy sub. Y'all once said Sandy Hook was an inside job though. Some things go too far. I don't know why you took what I said so personally.
but this all stemmed off of right-wing digging through emails to find anything to be used against HRC
Not necessarily, that's a false assumption. A lot of people (like me!) were digging through the e-mail despite being not right wing. One does not have to have a political motivation in order to be curious. And again with the_donald, the_donald is irrelevant to this. It did not start there, it was not promoted there until LONG after it was huge, and it's already been banned from there. It is just not part of the equation and there's no reason to shoehorn it in.
But to tell someone they can't comment in a sub (which I have been active in before if you want to dig my history) is just dumb.
I never said you couldn't, I asked if you don't like conspiracies than why are you here? I didn't say you couldn't comment.
But I am also allowed to be a countering voice when I see things going off the rails a bit. I'm not the enemy here. Neither are you.
I never said you were. I asked a question based off of your statement that you don't really like conspiracies. Now, you're claiming to be interested, but that isn't what you said to begin with.
Read the comments in this thread. Calling every a Shill just for disagreeing.
Many are. Correct the Record is not a theory, it's a fact and it's a fact that they target reddit.
People are allowed to ask questions and doubt things
Sure can, I'd love to see you do that, but that's not what you are doing.
Y'all once said Sandy Hook was an inside job though
Why do people keep bringing up Sandy Hook? This is like the 5th post I've seen bringing it up. Sandy Hook has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I don't know why you took what I said so personally.
One of the weirder and more creepier things in this pizza gate thing is the police composite sketch of the kidnappers of Madeleine McCann. It does look a lot like the podesta brothers, and they were supposedly very close to the scene of the crime in may 2007 at a Portugal vacation house or something. If police really do use those sketches to identify potential suspects and it's true the podesta brothers were in Portugal around the time of the crime, the police should definitely be asking those two a few questions. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwothzUVQAAAFmD.jpg
I don't think there has actually been any evidence found yet that they were in the area, and isn't there a lot more to those sketches, (off the top of my head so may not be exact) that there was only one suspect, and the original description/sketch didnt look anything like those(was supposed to be a much younger man) and those 2 are from a few years later, and are 2 different peoples interpretation of the same person
I think the readiness with which y'all discredit dissenters as "shills" and "CTR" makes you look unreasonable and turns people away.
I've only came around on this thing in the past 24 hours, before that I was fighting against it and offering up holes in the theory, not here but on facebook. I'm not a shill, I don't work for anybody, I'm a thinking person who doesn't jump on witchhunts until I'm properly convinced and my questions answered. I think 90% of the people you're calling shills are the same way, and they can be swayed, but calling them shills and acting like skepticism is absurd is only going to push them further against your cause.
I'm a very conspiracy-minded person. I think the original Podesta map pizza related handkerchief was extremely suspicious and very likely coded speech. I think all the Comet Pingpong stuff is frantic, hysterical tailchasing from people who are quiveringly eager to push a narrative, and are reaching far to pick the cherries to build it.
I've also noticed how pizzagate discussion is very often generously packaged in appeal to emotion, which hampers analysis.
Just curious, comet shit aside, but has anyone at all addressed what why that silsby lady was a priority to help out in Haiti? Or the Epstein shit? I think the comet pong regardless hasn't been proven by any means but I have not seen on explanation solidly offered for that stuff in the slightest and that shit is fishy
Not that I have seen, and that is why I have to speak out against what I see as unfounded pizzagate hysteria. Intentionally or otherwise, it is overshadowing other revelations and developments that I feel are much more actionable.
Same reason the State Department tried to help out arsonist Ted Maher.
One of the duties of the State Department is to help protect the civil and legal rights of Americans abroad. They're not there to help the innocent and ignore the guilty. They're there to prevent Americans from being railroaded by a foreign government.
Not really a fair comparison because most Americans being held by foreign governments are t accused of attempted child trafficking. Also, silsby stated herself that she was there on work for her charity, thus she wouldn't even qualify as a tourist. Not to mention the fact the email indicates at least some type of relationship between her and Clinton
Whether you're a tourist or not doesn't matter. Maher was employed as a nurse. What you're accused of doesn't matter, just that the accusation is dealt with fairly by the foreign government.
It also helped that both Maher and Silsby had substantial supporters at home campaigning for their government representatives to intervene in their cases.
Silsby's biggest US government advocates were 2 senators and 2 congressmen from her home state of Idaho, all but one of whom are Republican. And they were the ones who pushed the State Department to take an active interest in the case. I don't see anything unusual about how her case was handled by the government. I've read the emails and they look like simple media briefings.
Ok, so you say the handkercheif bit was suspicious, and worth investigating, correct?
We did investigate. And it exposed a cozy relationship with James Alefantis, owner of comet ping pong.
See how that works? How things link to other things? You can't just pick out one little facet of an investigation, and if it doesn't suit you, you can't deem the entire investigation as phoney...Thats not how that works, man...We're thinking BIG picture, a lot of you guys are thinking small picture, and it's clouding your judgement. The ability to think critically and make connections isn't something everybody has, you have to develop it.
You seem like a pretty open minded guy, I would really like to help you see this. PM me sometime, I'm willing to go over some of this stuff together with you if you'd like. We truly believe in this cause, this isn't a game to us. We need as many open minded thinkers such as yourself to be a part of this.
I don't dispute the relationship, that's a valid link. But the link itself doesn't imply anything nefarious. I have fairly exhaustively reviewed the circumstantial evidence arrayed against Alefantis and do not find any of if compellingly suggestive of any wrongdoing.
I would be happy to discuss any single point of evidence that you feel I've misjudged. Here, in a public forum.
Curious how you believe this pizza shop owner is the 50th most powerful person in Washington according to GQ and washington times? Must be some decent pizza.
There's also proof of 5 figure payments coming from high level politicians to cpp.
Look a little deeper, there's so many weird connections in this.
well, yes. It's a popular place with a trendy clientele of DC movers and shakers. Are you upset with GQ's rankings and feel like a few other DC establishments were stiffed?
I have fairly exhaustively reviewed the circumstantial evidence arrayed against Alefantis and do not find any of if compellingly suggestive of any wrongdoing.
That may be the case, but the tens of thousands of people on this sub alone have done the same and would disagree with you. Aren't you interested in finding out why? Do you think we are all dedicating countless hours and energy into this for no reason? Or is there at least SOMETHING to it worth looking for?
I think for an intelligent and critical thinker like yourself to dismiss this case would be a mistake, thats all i'm saying buddy. Take another look at it sometime, we'll be here.
I have looked, I do not find the evidence compelling. If you would like to present to me what you believe to be the three most damning pieces of evidence against Alefantis, I would be happy to explain why I don't find them convincing.
What about all the other instances of coded speech?
What about blatantly saying sacrificing chicken to Moloch?
What about the pedo logos at Besta?
What about the odd proximity of all these businesses; CPP, Besta, Terasol, Beyond Borders?
What about Alefantis' countless creepy instagram photos and comments?
What about Alefantis' instagram avatar being a statue of a guy involved in pederasty?
What about the odd bands with sexual/pedo innuendos associated with a "child friendly" pizzeria?
What about the Podestas looking identical to the police sketches of who abducted Madeliene McCann?
What about John Podesta still remaining friends with a known pedophile for years?
What about their disturbed taste in art plastered around their homes, pictures of half-naked children tied up, people being eaten, etc.?
What about their ties to Marina Abramovic, the creepy "spirit cooker" with links to Satanism?
What about Hillary Clinton's connection to Laura Silsby?
What about the massively disproportionate amount of children going missing in Virginia around Halloween?
etc...
Sure, you can write off a couple coincidences as being odd, but when they just keep stacking up, your gut should tell you that something is definitely not right about the situation.
Every time I see someone say that Pizzagate is bullshit, they conveniently focus on one aspect and completely ignore the vast majority of other evidence there is.
Edit: Thanks for my very first gold, stranger! You took my goldinity!
Hi, I don't know what I'm doing in this sub because I am going to get downvoted to hell. I am a journalist...not a super well-known one and one focused on lifestyle reportage. But I am not a "shill." I am, however, by all accounts, a Brooklyn dweller. And I've dug deep into this conspiracy, because the other thing I am is a trained and literal researcher. I have a couple of comments.
What instances of coded speech? If someone shows me anything about "dominoes" being mentioned in an email, I will scream. That's so beyond circumstantial. The email with the realtor about the kids coming to the lake house to hang is also such a far leap, it makes me concerned. Did you read the whole thing? This is a family friend.
If you look at my Instagram, it looks like I sacrifice shit all the time.
Once again, if you look at my Instagram feed, I look super creepy. I allude to death and becoming death (...the Neil Gaiman character). I have photos of black, dead eyes. Me with ripped tights and bloody knees. And yes, they exist alongside pictures of my tiny niece and nephews.
I can't see the avatar, but do you think, in the age of social media, this dude would be THAT obvious? Worry about the shit you don't see, right?
This is the one that gets me the most. There is a restaurant in Brooklyn called Roberta's. It's ostensibly child-friendly. But at night, it becomes a venue for punk and weirdness. No kids are there. It's just using the space after hours. As for the posters? Have you been to an indie rock show lately? I mean, fuck, google Liars videos, or Professor Professor. Shock is an aesthetic. (Note: I haven't heard of the bands that you guys are focusing on, but for what it's worth I have heard of Title Tracks. That dude has been around for a while). Have you considered that imagery concerning lost and disenfranchised youth feels applicable to rock musicians?
The "perverted" taste in art is motherfucking Marina Abramovich. She is not a "creepy satanist." She is very actually the most important performance artist alive. That's like calling Leigh Bowery a street rat, or Basquiat made gang signs. Her entire, VERY well-documented career is based on making people uncomfortable. I was actually AT the Pace when she did the performance with Jay-Z, and Jeffrey Saltz, and Michael Musto, and basically everyone ever in the art world. She returns to themes of alienation, bodies, and touch again and again. "Spirit Cooking", the original book, is beautiful and poetic. (I don't typically like Marina but that piece of work, which lives in the MoMA, is great.)
Secondly, you guys are freaking out about a Louis Bougeois statue in a "Jeffrey Dahmer" pose. A) If I got to see someone's private Louise Bougeois statue, I sure as shit would take that pic and put it on social media because she is one of the most influential artists of the 20th century. B) It saddens me that this is how art is being viewed today. Don't google Henry Darger, Jenny Saville, or the Kremaster Cycle. You will be very upset and probably think they are pedofiles too.
As for the Haiti connection: I can't speak to that as clearly. But to show me someone with a Louise Bougeois in their home and call it "creepy" isn't fair.
Lastly, and most honestly, Alefantis is a gay hipster restaurant owner. Last week I went to my friend's comedy show where she discussed mother hood (she's heavily pregnant. Look up "small hole, big head" at Ars Nova if you don't believe me.) One bit was her gay friend talking about how terrified he was of babies, and how they depress him. Another was a burlesque dancer acting as her doula but doing an S&M inspired dance to NIN "Closer". So, yes, there is video out there of a woman stomping around a pregnant belly, lip synching "I want to fuck you like an animal." Out of context, taken from outside of the space, outside of the theatrical space where signs and signifiers are supposed to be messed with, where irony and discomfort are employed...yeah, that might look insane. But I don't want my friends to stop making fun of our friends with kids because, what if they like a place on FB that has political ties, run by a gay man, and suddenly they are stalked and harassed.
Most importantly, though, to me: The thing that makes me the most upset, and why I am commenting, is that this response feels like a complete misunderstanding--and also fear--of gay men being gay around children. That Instagram cache has photos of kids, and photos of sexuality, but not a single photo of a kid being sexual. (Oh, as an aside...those "yellow anal beads"? Whomever made that claim has never seen an anal bead before up close. Have you considered the possibility it's a teething necklace?) I have dug through the art, the photos, the symbols, watched the videos and I don't see anything even remotely perverted. I see, you know, someone being a weird person, being and living out of the "norm"--even if we find it distasteful--someone who might have a lot of friends and family. And that disconnect, for everyone expounding this theory, worries me.
[Edit: Henry Darger was also probably a pedophile. The rest stands though. RENAISSANCE PAINTINGS. There. There you have loads of naked kids.]
Modern art is associated with Jews, so it's immediately considered irrevocably degenerate around here. And, you're exactly right about the demonization of gay men having kids.
What instances of coded speech? If someone shows me anything about "dominoes" being mentioned in an email, I will scream. That's so beyond circumstantial. The email with the realtor about the kids coming to the lake house to hang is also such a far leap, it makes me concerned. Did you read the whole thing? This is a family friend.
Where someone literally mentions three young girls' names, their ages and that they would be "entertainment".
If you look at my Instagram, it looks like I sacrifice shit all the time.
Non-argument. You could be a Satanist for all we know.
No it doesn't. You must have scrolled through tens of pages to find that because I can't find anything like it.
Once again, if you look at my Instagram feed, I look super creepy. I allude to death and becoming death (...the Neil Gaiman character). I have photos of black, dead eyes. Me with ripped tights and bloody knees. And yes, they exist alongside pictures of my tiny niece and nephews.
Yes, you are creepy. However, I assume you don't do anything like referring to children as 'hotards', or taping their hands to the table.
I can't see the avatar, but do you think, in the age of social media, this dude would be THAT obvious? Worry about the shit you don't see, right?
Why not? You realise some people 'get off' on flaunting their misdeeds in front of oblivious others, right?
This is the one that gets me the most. There is a restaurant in Brooklyn called Roberta's. It's ostensibly child-friendly. But at night, it becomes a venue for punk and weirdness. No kids are there. It's just using the space after hours. As for the posters? Have you been to an indie rock show lately? I mean, fuck, google Liars videos, or Professor Professor. Shock is an aesthetic. (Note: I haven't heard of the bands that you guys are focusing on, but for what it's worth I have heard of Title Tracks. That dude has been around for a while). Have you considered that imagery concerning lost and disenfranchised youth feels applicable to rock musicians?
Indeed, that place is weird as fuck, but I don't see how that makes CPP any less weird. For all we know they could be involved in some shady shit as well.
The "perverted" taste in art is motherfucking Marina Abramovich. She is not a "creepy satanist." She is very actually the most important performance artist alive. That's like calling Leigh Bowery a street rat, or Basquiat made gang signs. Her entire, VERY well-documented career is based on making people uncomfortable. I was actually AT the Pace when she did the performance with Jay-Z, and Jeffrey Saltz, and Michael Musto, and basically everyone ever in the art world. She returns to themes of alienation, bodies, and touch again and again. "Spirit Cooking", the original book, is beautiful and poetic. (I don't typically like Marina but that piece of work, which lives in the MoMA, is great.)
Nah, she's sketchy as fuck. You'd have to be a nutjob to have any sort of relationship with that hag. Any idiot can do batshit insane shit and claim "hurr durr it's art", doesn't make it any less sinister.
"Nah, she's sketchy as fuck. You'd have to be a nutjob to have any sort of relationship with that hag. Any idiot can do batshit insane shit and claim "hurr durr it's art", doesn't make it any less sinister."
I mean, cool. That's your opinion. It is not the opinion of, say, MoMA, universities, art critics, galleries, and authors. Plenty of art is sinister. It's kind of the point. (I mean, FFS, have you ever SEEN Damien Hirst's work?)
Edits:
I'm not going to go through each of these, but every one is so circumstantial and, furthermore, such a reach. I do not read—AT ALL—that email as anything other than, "These kids are coming to the swimming party with us, and they will be small and fun and entertaining.
Look, I don't want to feed your delusions, but that Luzzatto woman has a pretty open Facebook. You can see her and her three kids, over and over again, and her lake house, and people at her lake house, doing summery things. Lastly, as to "taping hands to a table." Yeah, I mean, that's not in good taste but it is not exactly evidence of a pedophile ring...and furthermore, like—kids are weird. I used to ask my father to wrap me in a blanket and tie it up and see if I could get out when I was little. Like, a sack of kid. Sorry, the kid is smiling, unstressed out, and it was a public photo.
Also, if you look at child trafficking stats, it is very, VERY rarely white kids who are victims. If this is focused on a ring out of Haiti, why, um, aren't any of the kids in your evidence pictures black?
It does seem out of context. But I don't think that means that you can really infer anything from it. It could be an inside joke with his friends about that South Park episode of the same name? I had a really hard time finding proof that pedofiles refer to themselves (willingly) as Chicken Lovers.
Also, as for "La Boum Boum Room"? Every city I've lived in (NYC, LA, Chicago) all has had a "Boom Boom Room." In fact, the Boom Boom Room in New York is super duper hard to get into and definitely known as an "it" venue, with really insane lines around the block. It's actually kind of a cliche name for anyone in night life.
Sure, you can write off a couple coincidences as being odd, but when they just keep stacking up, your gut should tell you that something is definitely not right about the situation. Every time I see someone say that Pizzagate is bullshit, they conveniently focus on one aspect and completely ignore the vast majority of other evidence there is.
Because you're basically piling mountains of vague bullshit up faster than it can be debunked. People focus on the more substantial points, but by then you've moved on to other unrelated shit.
What about all the other instances of coded speech?
You guys are reading code into speech. Could be regular speech, maybe a bit rushed, could be abbreviated for convenience, could be in-jokes, could be a million things. That's the weakest shit ever. If your online conversations with friends were pored over by thousands of internet trolls--who started out convinced that you'd done something wrong--do you think they'd come away with nothing at all unusual?
What about blatantly saying sacrificing chicken to Moloch?
Point to it. I'm betting it's a joke, but I've never seen it...nobody ever links to evidence, they just evade and then call you a shill.
BTW, is this part of the conspiracy now? They're not just pedophiles and slavers, they're not even satanic, they're worshiping Moloch and sacrificing children?
What about the pedo logos at Besta?
You say it's a pedo logo. It vaguely resembles some logo that apparently has been used by child porn forums in the past...and also the logos of like a million businesses in the 90s. Could it just be a coincidence? Of fucking course it could. Anyway, if you were a child trafficker, would you put a well-known pedophile logo on your sign, in the nation's capital?
What about the odd proximity of all these businesses; CPP, Besta, Terasol, Beyond Borders?
It's DC? There's lots of organizations in a relatively small area. The country is governed from there, you know. Anyway, it's you guys who are first connecting those orgs in your own mind, and then asked why they were so close together.
What about Alefantis' countless creepy instagram photos and comments?
Creepy is subjective. Maybe he's a wannabe artist with some kooky friends. I saw a few in another thread, they looked odd. Odd like an odd friend might take. They did not suggest child sex slavery to me.
What about the odd bands with sexual/pedo innuendos associated with a "child friendly" pizzeria?
Or...maybe...maybe...bear with me here...the dude owns a pizzaria and likes kids. Is that possible? Naah, it must be an underground child sex slave ring (and sacrificial cult, to boot!). Occam's razor, right?
Have you considered the possibility that all the sexual innuendo is in your head?
What about Alefantis' instagram avatar being a statue of a guy involved in pederasty?
I don't know who his avatar was. Socrates? Seems like you're being deliberately vague.
What about the Podestas looking identical to the police sketches of who abducted Madeliene McCann?
If you grabbed a handful of random police sketches, you could find some that looked like Podesta, who's a pretty typical looking white dude. You could probably find one that looks a bit like me, or a bit like you, too. Not exactly compelling.
What about John Podesta still remaining friends with a known pedophile for years?
If true, and if the pedophile isn't of the "I was 18, she was 17 1/2" variety, then that casts him in a bad light. He might not be a guy I'd like to hang around with. Does that do much to support the accusations of pizzagate? Nope.
What about their disturbed taste in art plastered around their homes, pictures of half-naked children tied up, people being eaten, etc.?
That's an exaggeration, based on what I've seen. What I saw (from one of you guys, so I assume it was supposed to be damning) was an abstract sculpture of a guy hanging upside down. Pretty weird. Par for the course for modern art, but sure, weird. Podesta seems like an odd guy. Still, nothing that would begin to suggest a child sex slave ring (unless you think the MOMA is the biggest slaving operation in the world?! Gasp!).
We're getting close to the end of the list, hope you saved the best for last...
What about their ties to Marina Abramovic, the creepy "spirit cooker"...
Yeah, what about their ties to an artist? Seems like this Podesta guy is really into weird modern art. I don't...think that's a crime...let me check...nope, definitely not a crime.
...with links to Satanism?
...That you guys made up?
What about Hillary Clinton's connection to Laura Silsby?
You mean her tenuous, six-degrees-of-separation connection? Or the fact that she, as Secretary of State, paid attention to an international incident in Haiti?
What about the massively disproportionate amount of children going missing in Virginia around Halloween?
First, is that even unusual in the country? Second, WTF does Halloween have to do with anything? What relates this to Podesta, or Hillary, or whoever? This is just like the rest, a random fucking fact just thrown out there.
When you're building a case, you're supposed to find evidence that points to the conclusion you're trying to establish. This is just a pile of facts (well...maybe facts) that are basically intended as character assassination. Some of it is weird, the rest is actually pretty normal. None is at all related to your conclusion. If you were trying to convince the world that Podesta, and maybe the pizzaria guy, has an unhealthy obsession with children...you still fell way short, and that's a hell of a lot short of your real claim, which is that they're part of a whole network of child sex slavers and a child-sacrificing cult. Your evidence is that they have an odd taste in art (as far as you're concerned, at least), and that there sure are a lot of organizations in DC.
Alright, I'm done. I tried to address all your point for you. You can go ahead and dismiss me as a shill now, and go back to patting yourself on the back for your awesome investigative skills.
Just wanted to say thanks for this block of text, it covers a lot of my feelings on the subject too. I have friends in DC who know the owner of comet pizza, and this crap going on has seriously hurt him and his employees, it's really fucked up. Comet pizza is like a 3 room building with solid concrete floors, the people I know in the area have lived there since the building went up, there's no secret basement, there's no 'kill room' Just the normal kitchen, main dining area and a back room for parties/overflow, they use black curtains to cover the unattractive exit doors and roll-up doors, and the walk-in freezer is out back and shared with another restaurant iirc (why it's larger than necessary) there's nothing going on there, and nowhere to do it.
Probably because it's not true and someone could have easily died yesterday because of the story. And continuing to disseminate it here will end up getting /r/conspiracy banned.
everything can be explained away as more conspiracy, can't it?
it's not just that some poor paranoid idiot who believes in the bullshit that r/pizzagate and now r/conspiracy have cooked up thought he was going to go in there and save some children?
Likely chickened out when he realized there were no kids there to save and he would suicide by police or spend life in jail if he did something so unbelievably goddamn stupid.
So he chickened out and just shot the floor. Brilliant move. Anyways who gives a shit. False flag or not it doesn't matter one bit. Nothing about the case changes and nobody will stop investigating. Some retards will ask people to stop which is the same as saying that someone accused of rape that gets threatened should be cleared of all charges. Most likely this will be used to further push the "fake news" narrative which is literally being pushed by James Alefantis ex boyfriend. Nothing to see here folks move along please.
Oh, like how you brush off our independent investigation as "fake news"? Or deem us a "witch hunt"? You guys are just as bad...The only difference is, we're fighting to save the lives of children, and you're in our fucking way....
You should join the police or the FBI if you want to save the lives of children. You are not some hero for googling bullshit in your spare time, stop acting like one.
IF the police and FBI actually did their jobs, we wouldn't have to take this investigation into our own hands. Clearly some very powerful people are implicated....
And why are you on /r/conspiracy if you're going to discourage an independent investigation anyway? If you're the kinda guy that frequents a conspiracy forum, shouldn't you welcome a critically thinking and questioning environment, not discourage it?
You clearly aren't contributing to a constructive discussion here, and probably can't be trusted..
Dude read the fucking post, I said I was on board with it, I'm on your side. Like I told the other guy, y'all are so up your own ass that you can't even comprehend anything I said other than the part that hurts your bias.
I believe the "shill problem" you speak of is invented rationalization that helps the community explain away dissenters. It's a minor form of psyops man, come on y'all should get awakened to your own programming.
Then what the hell is that supposed to mean? You're not contributing much here man. Any rational person is able to see that there is clearly a campaign to control the climate of this subreddit regarding pizzagate.
Go on the record for us, have you done your research on this topic? What is your stance on pizzagate? Sure, there are probably a few legit skeptics, but almost everybody here has agreed with the notion that the majority of them are CTR, which is why this thread made it to the front page so quickly, the majority agrees. However, you seem to be against that notion or proposing your own theory...
If you wanna talk about pizzagate sometime, PM me man. I'd be happy to go over some of this stuff with you. You seem like a relatively rational person who could be convinced that there is a logical basis to all of this, and we need as many people as we can get.
I stated that I'd came around to believing in pizzagate very recently, as far as the theory itself I am there, I'm with you guys. I've finally looked into everything and I think its legit.
Where we disagree is the CTR-supression angle, now maybe that does go on, I'm sure it did during the election, but I don't feel that the behavior OP is talking about is a product of a mass clandestine attempt to suppress. Being someone who was one of these dissenters until now I can empathize and feel that these people are skeptics just like I was who haven't been swayed or seen the right piece of evidence yet.
Dude, all you have to do is look at some of their profiles and post history. A lot of these profiles are merely a few hours old! And tons of them have never even visited or posted /r/conspiracy before!
Ask yourself, why would a bunch of random, newly made accounts swarm a conspiracy forum in unison that they rarely (if ever) have visited, and discourage people from critical thinking and independent investigation? It's a conspiracy forum! This is supposed to be a safehaven from persecution and terms like "whacky" "loony" "fucking crazy", right?
It's wayyyyyy out of the ordinary and it all started happening recently.
Just look at their profiles and examine their post history, a few seconds is all it takes for most of them.
Not a poster here, but also not a shill...the reason new accounts are posting here is that you guys are regularly hitting /r/all, and with information which seems dubiously connected to show what you want it to show. To outsiders, it seems like maybe you have been infiltrated by shills, just not in the way you all assume. The shills are the ones pushing the narrative that this is anything more than a pizza place to make you all look like violent unhinged psychopaths when the inevitable happens (as happened the other day).
The only difference is, we're fighting to save the lives of children, and you're in our fucking way....
Then you should just think a moment about what you a really doing. By pushing the bs narrative you create exactly the situation where child trafficking and molestation accussations are only used for political gain.
You wanna see a big conspiracy and don't give a damn about the real life where there is still no frigging public discourse about pedophilia and how to stop chidl molestation.
If you would really give a damn about "the children" you would push for strong social services, for a situation where churches and cults couldn't hide behind "religious freedom", where the export of religious intolerance from the US to africa would be shame in public.
You would push for a society where people with pedophile tendencies would get treatment before they go all teh way to child molestation, you would push for a society where orphan shelters would a normal budget to operate and you would push for transparency.
You are doing neither of that. You use the topic to push a political narrative.
I told you my exact problem. I believe the "shill problem" you speak of is invented rationalization that helps the community explain away dissenters. It's a minor form of psyops man, come on y'all should get awakened to your own programming.
If these photos are in no way suspicious why hasn't a single news paper or TV report actually shown them?
Didn't you kind of just answer your own question? If the photos are in no way suspicious, why would they spend valuable airtime showing profoundly uninteresting photos?
And anyway, I have seen some of the photos appear in articles from a few different publications, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
why would they spend valuable airtime showing profoundly uninteresting photos?
Because these are the origins of the theories. Reporting is their fucking job, so they're doing a piss poor job of explaining to people what is going on without showing these images. Besides which, by not showing them, they are just giving more ammo to people like me to go around and ask "why aren't they showing this"
I know why, because everyone I've shown has done a 180 lol because the images speak for themselves
Are you talking about, for example, the photo of the girl with her hands taped to the table?
My best guess is news organizations cannot just display photos of minors on the air like that without permission from the parents and signing a release. Isn't that a reasonable expectation, some privacy?
My best guess is news organizations cannot just display photos of minors on the air like that without permission from the parents and signing a release. Isn't that a reasonable expectation, some privacy?
Nope they were publicly posted on the internet so her parents can thank James Alefantis for putting her in the public eye like this. They could also censor her face.
This is classic, sh3rog demands that because the "proof" was not shown on TV it has weight. But if it was shown on TV, he would say "It was on TV, there is your proof". Defending your theory by demanding others make it real.
I ain't no shill, I just am getting sick of seeing this batshit insane crap on r/all and you guys have spent way too much time talking into an echo chamber.
That terrorism attempt yesterday was the last straw for me, I'm gonna be a regular on this subreddit now just to point out how stupid most of the crap you guys believe is. I can't let you guys continue making up silly stories and putting people's lives in danger in the process.
If you wanna believe this stupid shit you're gonna have to go through me first.
Go ahead, try to convince me that some guy's emails about eating pizza somehow means that hillary clinton and george soros are cannibal child molesters. I dare you. I've read all your "evidence" and it sounds like the world's most pathetic game of 6 degrees of kevin bacon.
Yea because everyone knows calling someone a shill is the height of reasoned rebuttals. Do you have any evidence it's a false flag, other than the fact that it suits your narrative?
How convenient for the cameras outside the pizza place to have been moved 12 hours before during the weekend when public workers are notoriously known not to work
Have you considered that they moved the cameras because creeps sending a random pizzeria death threats were spying on the employees of this restaurant?
I saw the same imade you did. Do you know why images like that are so popular? Because you have to believe everything they say, there's no links for you to check yourself.
Did you look at the actual IMDB page? He wasn't an "actor" at all. And if he was, don't you think the government would have removed his IMDB page?
He didn't commit a crime, he hit someone with his car in October and cooperated with police. He was going the speed limit and was never charged.
Thinking about this more, it's so clear it was. The timing is just too much. People were talking about comet pizza, so let's make a huge new story about comet pizza that distracts from the original story and can dominate the news to block out any pizzagate stories... then also it's just a random one-off terrorist shooting, which happens with a fair degree of regularity now (unfortunately), and it's being focused on overly-heavily (as compared to the OKC shooter at an airport), which shows they're trying to overwrite people's idea of comet pizza as being associated with pizzagate, to now associating it with this random act of terrorism (which was probably done by a 3 letter agency to protect those people involved in this ring, because then their blackmail control of the politicians would become worthless).
Devils advocate - Most people have not heard of pizzagate. This shooting has brought more attention to the subject. If this was a false flag, its not a very strategic one.
How about the lighting? Or the camera being wonky? There are a million explanations more plausible than harvesting vampires or whatever shit they're talking about in that thread.
Yeah, dark colored occlusions in the iris are pretty common for those with blue or light colored eyes, something like this would appear like the photos if the room is dimly lit, it's not unusual, and definitely not sufficient to prove some sort of conspiracy (the examples are with ideal lighting the dark areas would be much darker under indirect lighting conditions):
I'm leaning more on lighting than wonky camera tbh., but the cameras could be wonky sure. Makes more sense than genetic test tube vampire pedo ring. Not even sure what this eyeball stuff is supposed to even suggest if it were anything.
Me too, anybody with eyes can see that pizzagate has merit. I was skeptical until I saw the false flag yesterday, now i'm starting to believe there is something to it..
Chill. It's just not worth pursuing right now. We need more hard evidence. Speculation day in and day out will get us nowhere, and discredit us in the process.
Keep digging guys. Evidence speaks louder than ignorance.
Evidence like the missing children, accusations by scared parents, break-ins involving intelligence agents, and the baseless firing of employees asking too many questions?
yeah we get a big list of threads to target, usernames to monitor ... but sometimes mistakes happen. there's obviously some bumps in the road as CTR transitions from a campaign organization to a full-time multi-billion dollar apparatus
I'm not really sold on this whole thing, I think people might be going crazy about certain aspects, but I live in Asia. Human trafficking happens a lot. Parents sell kids or they are kidnapped. Go try and find statistics on missing children in China or India. It is nearly impossible to find reliable numbers.
Last week I saw a printed piece of paper with broken english and a picture of a girl with "missing" at the top. This gives zero evidence for any of the stuff going on with this whole conspiracy theory, but the missing kids and scared parents are probably all in places in the world where they don't have a voice to be heard.
Virginia has suspiciously high missing children per-capita
You:
correlation =/= causation
What? I'm literally pointing out that Virginia indeed has way more missing children per capita, which answers the original question. Now to say definitely that the discrepancy is indeed caused by this pizza joint running a pedophile ring would be to imply causation from correlation.
Time and time again, this conspiracy isn't about one "smoking gun". There will not be a smoking gun unless a grave mistake is made by one of them. This statistics isn't a smoking gun, but it's part of a huge pile of evidence that keeps stacking up, all pointing to one conclusion. We are in the process of proving causation.
There's more than enough evidence to warrant a federal investigation into pizzagate and everyone involved. People get indicted and investigated for far less every day.
and the emails that make no sense using obviously coded language, and the fact this random pizza guy is the 49th most powerful person in DC according to GQ, and the giant giant freezer room they have in the basement they now deny exists, and the fact they changed the pizza place logo from a known pedophile logo as soon as this all started coming out... there's just too many coincidences and ass covering for me to be able to say there's nothing to look at here
You're just assuming I haven't read because I phrased the words differently. Several typos in a row would not lead to that string of words. And pizza has long been known as code for cp. It's been that way for at least 15 years, from a cursory google .
Also what kind of elite person would carry a literal handkerchief with a pizza map on it? What is a pizza map
No if you read Into it more it's actually multiple people involved in the abductions. The podesta Brothers were also a mile away staying at their known pedophile friends house. Read it more, idk why poeple keep saying this 'it was one person' nonsense. Becuase it's not true and u most likely didn't read it
I've been on reddit nine years, and I love a good provable conspiracy theory, but I'm not buying this one. There's such a thing as the powers that be promoting false conspiracies to delegitimize the crowd that typically discovers the real ones.
Perhaps you could walk us through the various elements of the investigation that you found shaky?
Which parts of the investigation did you find faulty? Can you explain to me each piece of evidence you found to be lacking, and WHY you found it to be lacking? Do you propose another potential explaination for all of this?
I think it's fair that if you are going to stand in solidarity and deny something, especially on a forum where well over 85% of us are in support of this investigation, you should explain why.
Seems like a lot of straw grasping. Not to mention the whole cheese pizza thing is a relatively new euphemism for child porn, and it's unlikely a bunch of old men would be using it as code. Also, just from your comment I can feel how much you WANT this to be true, and I think that probably goes for a lot of those sharing your view. Everyone wants to be Sherlock breaking the case.
You guys are making the extraordinary claims, the onus is on you to provide some real evidence. Point out some actual solid evidence (more solid than "that logo is weird!" or "that guy has a strange instagram account!"), and then people can refute it.
But you're on a conspiracy forum. If you're the kind of guy who frequents a conspiracy forum, you're probably familiar with "extrodinary claims". You wouldn't be the kind of person to immediately reject and brush off an independent investigation, you're supposed to have an open mind, right? So, why are you so aggressively against THIS independent investigation? And, with that being said, I think the fact that you're putting aside the safety of possibly thousands of children (who could be saved if we acted uniformily and swiftly to wake the masses) is insanely selfish.
Why don't you put in the effort to do some basic research like the rest of us have?
You're mistaken, I landed here from /r/all. I come from the real world, where some sort of evidence is a prerequisite to declaring that the government is running a child sex slave ring.
No, I live in the real world where my crooked and horridly corrupt government has not earned the benefit of the doubt from me on this one. The sociopaths in government are the EXACT type of people I'd expect this from.
Are you not aware that many governments around the world are caught doing this regularly?
But you wouldn't know that, because you have refused to put forth the tiniest bit of effort to begin researching pizzagate like the rest of us have. It's not that hard dude. If you refuse to do research on something, and instead simply blow or brush it off as nonsense, than your opinion on the subject holds no merit.
So...you're starting out with the assumption that anyone in government is already guilty, and it's just a matter of pinning something on them. Correct?
Are you not aware that many governments around the world are caught doing this regularly?
Accusations were thrown around, but didn't go very far. I'm sure you assume that's because they were suppressed. I think they just didn't have very far to go--there may have been some pedophiles in government, but there were no massive conspiracies.
the catholic church
There were priests who were pedophiles. The church, for fear of losing trust, covered the stories up and shuffled the priests around. They've been condemned for that--and quite correctly. They have a shitload to answer for. But what exactly does that have to do with these accusations? You're not claiming that there may be a few pedophiles in the DNC, you're claiming that there's a massive secret child sex slavery conspiracy right at the top of the DNC! For that, there is no precedent...unless, of course, you assume there is, and then also assume it was covered up.
you have refused to put forth the tiniest bit of effort to begin researching pizzagate like the rest of us
You assume. I'm familiar enough with conspiracy theories that it didn't take long to debunk it.
You guys won't actually stand up and put forth an argument, you're always telling people to "look it up yourself, do the research". That's because--whether you realize it or not--you know deep down that if you put up your arguments, they'd be torn to shreds. If you can convince somebody to enter the echo chamber of conspiracy pages and forums, they may actually be worn down by the constant barrage of misinformation, coincidences, half-truths and tenuous links and start to believe. Particularly people without much real-world experience.
Once you start to be able to sort rational arguments from vague assertions, and evidence from coincidence, then it's not too hard to figure out that there's nothing here. There's no single tangible piece of evidence--just a whole bunch of random facts that you guys are determined to build a story with.
Why are you so dedicated to stopping an independent investigation? Especially into child trafficking?
I would think that the potential for some of the worlds most prominent members of society being implicated in a pedophile ring would warrant an honest look into the facts, not just be brushed off immediately like you're promoting.
And why are you on a conspiracy sub anyway? Most people on here promote and support this investigation. According to your post history you're not even on /r/conspiracy often and when you are it's all posts against pizzagate all of a sudden?
I'm not 'dedicated', I just get annoyed by misinformation. You're ruining and threatening lives based on zero substantial evidence. If there was actual, substantial evidence, I'd be all for investigating it--but there's not.
I pop into conspiracy occasionally when I see it on the front page of /r/all, and lately that's all been pizzagate.
I honestly don't care enough. There's not enough here to warrant my effort and the time it would take to go through this point-by-point with you, only for you to inevitably and blindly refute me. I think you're wrong, I think this particular conspiracy is bullshit. Call it the Alex Jones strategy, mis-information to distract you from a real conspiracy nearby. Of course there are elite involved in the child sex trade, but this isn't it.
Are you familiar with the judicial concepts of reasonable doubt and burden of proof? I don't feel the evidence I've seen comes close to proving this theory beyond a reasonable doubt and I likewise feel the burden of proof is on you and your flat earth buddies to convince those of us who are skeptical. It's not my job to waste my time on this. I'll focus my time, effort, and brainpower on conspiracies I feel are actually real and meaningful to my existence.
I've never seen a single flat earth post on this sub.
It's clearly your job to waste your time on this, because you're putting in a lot of effort and time into stifling the pizzagate investigation. Why are you so vehemently against allowing an independent investigation to continue? Wouldn't someone who frequents a conspiracy forum welcome something like this? I don't understand your motives here buddy...
Who says I'm obstructing an investigation? What if I don't want this community to be any further delegitimized? Fuck me, right? And the flat earth thing was a pretty clear metaphor and I stand by it.
I have spent enough time on the internet to know that no matter what I say will not convince you so I'll just quickly list some obvious things.
1. The emails are really weak evidence. It all hinges on assuming that certain words are code for pedo shit, but there's no evidence that this really is so. All of the email could realistically contain no code whatsoever; the wording is little weird in few emails, but this could easily be someone writing a quick email without thinking about it much. Furthermore, even if you assume that the words are codewords, the emails don't actually make much sense either. Take this:
"Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta"
This really doesn't make any sense if you assume that cheese means little boy and pasta a little girl. But if you read the whole email it really looks like there is no code and he is jokingly asking if he would play dominos better after eating cheese than after eating pizza. Or take the handkerchief email. Assuming map means semen, why would he want it back? It doesn't actually make sense. Even if these are codewords, they may be completely unrelated to pedos.
2. Let's assume that Podesta actually built an underground vault to torture,rape,... kids. Why the fuck would he talk about it to the media? Similarly, if they were making secret tunnels in the Pizzeria, why would they take a picture and put it online?
3. The police sketches of the suspects in the kidnapping case are actually supposed to be of one person.
There's of course much more "evidence" than this, but I can't really go through it all. The point is that pretty much all of it is weak and not connected. A person who maybe knows Podesta a little posting few weird pictures on instagram really is no proof. Bill Clinton flying on a private jet of Jeffrey Epstein, who was convicted for soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14 (though accused of much more) is no proof. John Podesta liking somewhat weird art is not a proof of anything.
You might say that while the individual evidence is weak, all together it's too much to be a coincidence, but I don't agree. A lot of bad evidence does not make a good evidence. But of course I can't really disprove it and frankly most of the evidence for pizzagate really seems so weak that to me it feels pointless to even argue about it.
Anyway, feel free to call me a shill and ignore everything I said.
I'm not really campaigning. I generally avoid discussions like these because there's no point to them, so I'm not going to argue further. Think about it, is there anything I could say that would change your mind? Even if I would have evidence that pizzagate is not true, you would not believe the evidence. But of course I don't have such evidence, how could I prove that something like this is not happening?
It's very close minded to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a shill. The reason why this subreddit sees many people who are disagreeing is because it became big and reaches /r/all regularly (that's why I'm here) and because this scandal is pretty political and most redditors and not very fond of Trump.
Shills are useful in their own way. When shills engage, it unfolds one of three ways.
They have nothing but immature, empty words, such as ad hominem insults and such, which shows how incredibly weak their stance is to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking capability.
They serve as 'prompts' for discussions and essentially keep the wheel turning, as far as new/updated information and explanations for anyone who pops in to check things out at any given time. In essence, shill pops up with a typical straw man argument, then anyone else can knock it the fk down for all to see.
In the rare case that they do bring up a good critical observation of something, it helps to encourage vetting and refining evidence and a theory itself. Beware the pitfalls of an echo chamber, in essence.
However it pans out, they help, even if that's not their intention. That is the power and beauty of truth.
Heyo, good positive thinking. Reminds me of how Trump and the Zionists will be so bad for US, that we'll actually hit rock bottom and have nowhere to go but up!
Everyone please look into Laura Silsby. She was caught in Haiti and jailed for trying to traffic 33 children and the first thing the Clinton Foundation did when they moved into Haiti was Hillary pardoned her, and she now creepily works on the board of directors for a company called AlertSense that is in charge of issuing amber alerts. https://www.alertsense.com/company/executive-team/ (Laura Silsby-Gayler)
The lawyer Hillary used to help absolve Laura also was a convicted child trafficker, you just can't make this stuff up.
So basically, a woman who served time for trafficking kids in Haiti now sits on the board of a company that serves as the backbone for many local authorities when they want to issue Amber Alerts.
WikiLeaks then confirmed Hillary has a LONG history with convicted child trafficker and kidnapper Laura Silsby, and Huma Abedin (vice chairwoman of Hillary's 2016 presidential campaign) has been forwarding emails about Laura Silsby's non government organization to Hillary for years.
Laura Silsby was also former director of The New Life Children's Refuge, the same group that was busted by Haitian authorities trying to traffic kids:
And the video below is about a bunch of Haitians protesting the evils of the Clintons, and the man protesting in the video mentions how the Clintons have exploited Haiti's resources for themselves, and even specifically mentions people in Haiti are afraid to go out at night because of fear of kidnapping. (4:48 in the video)
At around the 2:00 mark he even mentions Tony Rodham (Hillary's brother) is now in charge of gold mines in Haiti and sits on the gold mine's board of directors.
Many people are talking about this story, continue to spread the word!! We need justice for these
crimes, and the Clintons should be in prison.
So just debunk it. Stop saying 'fake news' 'conspiracy' with zero evidence. You spend 2 days debunking it and you will have convinced people like me it's indeed a conspiracy. You stone wall it for weeks and the just try to discredit without putting an ounce of research well the. You look like a liar.
I just don't see anyone here being convinced. There are plenty of people stating that no one should stop believing.
Give me a list of evidence with proper citations and I'll debunk them. It's not like I'm going to fly there and sleuth around (just to have it rejected as fake anyway).
discredit what? There is literally nothing to discredit. Instead you need to ask yourself who is pushing all these dumb posts to the front of /r/conspiracy. That is the real question.
I've read the posts, and circumstantial connect the dots evidence isn't hard concrete proof of absolutely anything. I'm glad people are willing to look into this and try to help, bit witch hunting and turning on everyone, calling sceptics shills and working yourselves into a frenzy is doing you no good, if there was truth to be found, it is now buried away beyond your grasp, if there was a massive audience to convince, you've turned them away by being so fanatical about this that you just seem insane. What evidence you have gathered has now been sullied by your inability to express it in any sort of way that seemed logical and making people stand by you or at least give you the benefit of the doubt cause if anyone has reserves on your "investigation" you immediately call them shills and start with the. We must protect the children bullshit line cause this is an echo chamber. Every single time this sub hits the front page, the comments turn into a shitshow cause the pizza gate group are by far a minority. It's not some huge grand conspiracy against you, you just have not gathered the public's support. I fail to see what is difficult to understand about this.
It started when folks said she was deathly ill at 9/11 and pushing that narrative. You shouldn't have pushed such a bs line. Now no one knows or cares. Good job shooting yourself in the foot.
Just like all the " I wasn't going to vote for x but now I will" posts. All you have to do is check their history and see that they believed all along.
correlation does not equal causation. Do you really think that pizzagate is why the fake news issue came up and not the GUY WHO WON <50% VOTE AND IS AN UNSTABLE MESS WON THE PRESIDENCY LIKELY DUE TO FAKE NEWS??? I think that's the larger narrative of the fake news story, and hey, it's coming up as a news story in wake of the election which just happened.
I'm so glad you posted this, because people have to understand this "opposition" to pizzagate isn't real organic skepticism...It's all manufactured CTR.
This story is so damaging that they are pulling out all the stops and throwing everything but the kitchen sink at us. Just remember to be mindful when dealing with trolls.
Massively downvote them, and either ignore them or refute their stupid arguments in short, simple sentences. Don't antagonize, don't encourage. Just blow them off essentially, do not let them control the climate of comments on this sub.
Seems a bit ridiculous to assume every person arguing against Pizzagate is a shill, considering how much attention it's starting to get, and how many posts about it are getting to /r/all.
Most people against it are just incredulous with a "This doesn't seem possible" kind of attitude. If someone's main argument against it is "I doubt they'd be able/willing to do something like this" then they're just naive. It's definitely possible. The only question is if it's actually happening.
Whether you want to admit it or not, a lot of the Pizzagate theory requires some assumptions and leaps in logic. Not everyone is willing to make that jump without more than just coincidences.
Remember the daycare ordeal? Boston Bomber? Things like that make a lot of people adverse to just making assumptions or speculating because these sorts of situations have spun out of control before.
So yes, there are a lot of people trying to debunk or outright dismiss Pizzagate that aren't shills.
So am I, for the most part. A lot of people, even those that would consider themselves skeptics, are starting to be more cautious in their claims - and worried about how far online forums take conspiracy theories simply because how irresponsible people have been in the past.
My argument against is that the evidence people have circulated is exaggerated, misleading, misinterpreted, and still doesn't prove a damn thing other than that some people like shitty edgelord art.
I think your emotions are getting in the way of your logic, if you actually look at the full list of circumstantial evidence that has been revealed. I'm not saying it's true for sure, but to dismiss it entirely is just... I can't do it. As much as I'd like to. There's just too many things. There needs to be an investigation
Or how about "there's no actual evidence to support any of these theories and suspicions, but maybe if some evidence is found I'll consider what you are saying" as a main argument?
No there isn't or an investigation would be open already. Please show me some of this supposed evidence and make sure it's from a (at least somewhat) credible source. Reddit comments and 4 chan screenshots aren't evidence, if they are then the real Boston bombers are still on the loose
No there isn't or an investigation would be open already.
That's a silly assumption and you know it.
The fact there was a terrorist thing right outside comet pizza and the media won't shut up about it is pretty damning, considering the timing. Also the extremely uniform "fake news" thing that came out right when pizzagate did. There's so many circumstantial things, like the podesta wikileaks coded language emails, and the giant basement, and the 3 restaurants with known pedo logos all right next to each other, and the comet pizza owner being named #49 most powerful in GQ... lots of circumstantial stuff. Especially if you connect it to Epstein and the Lolita Express, and Bill Clinton. Enough to warrant an investigation, that's for sure.
But of course the three letter agencies are in on it, and use the pedo stuff as blackmail, so they're trying to keep the public from finding out or else they lose that blackmail power over those high-level elected politicians. If it does come out in an official way and there is an investigation and some people go down, it's going to be very surgical and only certain specific people will get thrown under the bus. Seems like Podesta and maybe a few others, but then the Clintons and many others who participated will walk away and the media will exclusively blame it on podesta. I think that's how they'll do damage control.
But seeing as this seems to be international, and several very high-level rings have been broken up and the those people arrested, in other countries. I think they'll use this as a way to globally "trim the fat" and get rid of high-level political people they don't like. After all, they never let a disaster go to waste. But the real power structure will remain intact and generally untouched, unless most people move beyond the narratives provided by the media, which is owned by that very power structure and thus will never betray it.
Seems like you are rambling without providing any evidence. You know like pizza existed before the fucked up internet slang term "cheese pizza" popped up. Pizza is a food people eat. Have you eaten pizza?
Calm down man. I don't doubt that there are high level pedophiles in the government at all I just think that you and everyone else is going down the wrong rabbit hole here. Like the incorrect one, that's making you appear unhinged. I would not be surprised if evidence came out about it in the near future I just don't think pizza gate and harassing pizza restaurants is going to actually lead anywhere.
Imagine just for a second these restaurants don't have anything to do with pedophilia at all besides the accusations, how do you think you'd feel if you were an owner? Scared and mortified and weirded out? Nothing good I would imagine.
I think pizza gate rests on shaky logic and massive jumps in reason. I guess I'm a shill. Yesterday I was saying that it was getting dangerous how much people believed it and bam, today gunman. I guess I must be part of the false flag effort.
I should mention I've received threats including a death threat for questioning pizza gate. That's what this sub has become. It's a believe this or else sub.
Perhaps you could walk us through the various elements of the investigation that you found shaky?
Which parts of the investigation did you find faulty? Can you explain to me each piece of evidence you found to be lacking, and WHY you found it to be lacking? Do you propose another potential explaination for all of this?
I think it's fair that if you are going to stand in solidarity and deny something, especially on a forum where well over 85% of us are in support of this investigation, you should explain why.
Let me also say that nobody on this forum has ever heard of any sort of death threats, nor has a death threat or a violent proposition of any kind been brought about. Now i'm starting to think you're making that up...
If you have any more wild claims, at least have the decency to provide proof. Why should we just take your word?
It would take me hours to debunk everything but by bit. The video above does a good job.
Regarding the death threat I don't really know how to prove it. It's in my comments and a screen shot would have to much personal information embedded. I'm hoping not to get doxxed tonight. But your right it kind of sucks without proof however would you even believe it if you saw it?
I can say this, I've been on r/conspiracy for about five years. I change accounts every few years to keep the personal information low. Never have I seen what is going on now. Ever since the lead up to the election it feels like this place has been co opted by the right. If anything I believe this is where the real conspiracy lies. The right wingers co opting of r/conspiracy. With all that is going on the main focus is on this pizza gate thing and I think it's sad.
"Wow, multiple different people agree on a unified truth. How suspicious.
Indeed they do. Millions of people around the world agree on the unified truth that some of the worlds most prominent world leaders and elite members of society are involved in profiteering from and participating in human trafficking. And you owe it to yourself to research what we've presented it in it's entirety before brushing it off as a whacky theory as you so close mindedly have...
Hell, even the RTFrance is covering pizzagate now...
When all of this does finally come out, you're going to look like an idiot, dude....Why are you so aggressively against this notion? This is a conspiracy forum, no? Why do you shoot down independent investigation and free thought instead of encouraging it? It's not too late, if you do want to go over some of the information regarding pizzagate together sometime, feel free to PM me.
We're non-partisan and honestly man, the more people we can get on our side, the better.
Millions of people around the world agree on the unified truth that some of the worlds most prominent world leaders and elite members of society are involved in profiteering from and participating in human trafficking.
Millions
No.
Hell, even the RTFrance is covering pizzagate now
RT! Well I'm glad a reputable organization that absolutely hasn't spent the last year effectively disseminating propaganda to Americans is backing this /s.
Why are you so aggressively against this notion?
1) Because it's led to death threats, and now a guy walking into a restaurant with a gun based off of it. It's not innocent conjecture, it's dangerously delusional. If someone gets killed because of this, you are partially responsible for spreading this shit.
2) Because it's just the tip of the iceberg of the crazy shit that I think is coming. There's been a surge in fake news and propaganda lately, and Trump and his supporters are all-in supporting it. I'm afraid that it's going to get way worse before it gets any better - attacks on random-ass people like this, attacks on Muslims, on Mexicans, whatever. We're entering a scary time right now and pizzagate seems to be a taste of what's to come in terms conspiracy theories empowered by a truth-averse president and effective Russian propaganda.
This is not a joke, this is not innocent questioning, this is serious shit. I doubt you'll care or be convinced by anything, but at least I hope you realize that the majority of people who care at all feel the way I feel about this and are concerned about people getting hurt based on ridiculous conspiracies.
Ahh, what a fantastic and well thought out rebuttal...You showed me.
Dude, in the rest of your post you are literally echoing the talking points that mainstream media has conjured up over the past few days in regard to pizzagate. "Fake News" "Propoganda" "Trump and the conservtives behind it"...yada yada
We've heard it all before, and we are already HIGHLY suspicious that yesterday's "shooting" was a false flag event used to ruin the credibility of our movement. You're on /r/conspiracy echoing mainstream media talk points, do you honestly think you're going to convince anybody here that hocus-pocus holds any legitimate meaning ? Nobody here trusts the mainstream media and nobody here is promoting violence against anyone at Comet Ping Pong. Why are you even here ?
I just realized your one of the assholes that sent me a threatening message. You made it seem like you had my mothers phone number to threaten me to stop talking.
Shame on you buddy. Your as bad as the people you think you are up against.
Accusing every single person against their stance and encouraging everyone of the same mind to completely block their arguments and downvote them into oblivion. That really should be grounds for ban.
But a lot of the people who come into the thread do.
Edit: just actually looked at the context of my comment. It would have been better to say that the person I specifically replied to was doing that. I had gotten a lot of replies in this post, and forgot which threads some comments were in.
It wouldn't sound so dumb if they just dropped the "term" pizzagate... cause if it really is the biggest conspiracy in history... pizza has so little to do with it.
I've spent dozens and dozens of hours... I'm so far ahead of the curve that you guys can't keep up... and the pizza angle is such a very small fraction of what is going down.
Go over to voat and look up the "culinary diplomat" program HRC started as Secretary of the State... or what restaurateurs Trump recently kicked out of his buildings... or even "Pizza Pipeline" if you wanna stay on the pizza tunnel vision.
Anyone that is serious about this does their homework behind the scenes and slips it off the FBI tip line... anyone researching this in broad daylight is only tipping off the guilty that they are being investigated.
Logical reply in every channel but here. Pizza is code for a secret. Dig it up, smoke it out. FBI was founded by the most controversial figure in American history... hell he probably liked and invented the term pizza.
No, 4chan invented that term. FBI actually busts pedos and pedo rings unlike you people who read shit on 4chan and think you've accomplished something.
If the FBI was actually doing their job, we wouldn't have to be taking it on ourselves to do an independent investigation. They fucked up, we have to pick up the slack.
Ignoring even the slightest chance that these people are harming kids is stupid and selfish. It really is that simple.
Look, if you're just here to antagonize, than don't bother posting. We are dedicated to having a constructive discussion about pizzagate here, don't distract us.
Where is the proof that they used these as code to cover their sick activities??? All I've seen is people on 4chan saying that it's code and acting like the result makes sense when they substitute the words in an e-mail. They might actually just be talking about food!
"Hi John, The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yours?"
Thats one of the Podesta emails...
Sure, they're talking about food buddy....
C'mon dude, do your research. PM me sometime if you want to go over any of the information together. The more people we can reach, the better.
Yes but you're using context, that's not allowed when proving this person is eating little boys and girls. Or playing dominoes on them. I'm not really sure
I think you should give notice when changing strategies which have been long in place. I immediately realized something was different by the shape of the box and I contemplated who would be sending me something in the square shaped box. Lo and behold, instead of pasta and wonderful sauces, it was a lovely, tempting assortment of cheeses , Yummy. I am awaiting the return of my children and grandchildren from their holiday travels so that we can demolish them.
Thank you so much. I hope you and your gang are well.
miss you both
Best wishes fro a merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
Herb
Ps. Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta?
Even when the email references were just being picked up and talked about someone floated the term pizzagate, and I remember there was immediate opposition, people said they wanted something "with teeth" but once r/pizzagate sub was made it exploded and now it's basically permanent. I agree though, the fact that it's called pizzagate is half the reason those first individuals started going to cpp and stirring up trouble. Probably best if that hadn't happened.
I'm astounded how many upvotes this post has gotten. The notion that people dismissing a conspiracy theory is definite shilling is denial at it's highest. Some people disagree with you. They think this whole thing is bullshit. I'm one of them. Get over it.
Dismissing people's views in this way only serves to put you in a bubble from which you can't escape. How can anyone who can't see both sides of an argument ever hope to find the truth?
Edit: Maybe part of the reason people are posting more about this is because a guy with a gun walked into the restaurant. Whether you think this thing is true or not, you can see how people might empathise with all those staff and waitresses fearing they were about to be shot.
Listen I don't deny that theres kiddie porn rings all over but whats the smoking gun here? The best evidence for a probably cause investigation was the twisted extremely twisted looking twitter posts. All of which are gone (I'm assuming they were never real considering how easy it is to photoshop stuff/Looking at the actual posts on jimmycomets twitter they aren't even close to the things on the wordpress) But yea.....if you guys actually have any real evidence to share besides a triangle piece of pizza looks like a triangle kiddy toucher logo that would be cool to see. (Yes I know about that one weird podesta email but was there any others?)
Look guys. I'm not saying I believe in this at all, but if there ever was one thing that made me stop and question it, it happened yesterday. The one witness they had on CNN, was way suspect. If you ever see a witness to any crime. They never try to push an agenda, but this guy was the opposite. He didn't try to just describe what happened. He was very adamant about not only defending the pizza place, but condemning those investigating it. He appeared to be way to knowledgeable about things to be a random witness. Until he started name dropping people yesterday, I had never heard of the individuals actually pressing this theory.
I have never seen "the perfect witness", but that's what was presented to me yesterday. He seemed way to "good" to be true. Go back and watch the initial footage of this guy on CNN it crazy.
Didn't he name drop the wrong people though? the msm(where he would have got his information from) is giving more credit to alex jones and fake news blogs instead of the actual source, 4chan and reddit. I'm sure if you're even a semi regular there you would know the full msm story and feel pretty awful/adamant about it because of how it's hurting an innocent person/business you know
An individual with a "platform" is an easier target. Plus, why would you want to drive traffic to an ongoing interactive discussion. Its easier to say "he" is the problem, while simultaneously warning him to back off. Now if something does happen, there is someone to blame, not a nameless faceless community. He has taken a stance if you will. He could easily say this is all crazy.
Sure I get that its a better target, but I mean, theres nothing about what the guy being interviewed said that i saw that was more on the nose than if he had just been following MSM coverage of it(and knew to look because he is near the place/goes there)
So your interpretation could be true, I'm just saying that his behavior is completely understandable to me if you believed there was a whole bunch of hokum being whipped up that might have just put your family in danger and hurt the community for no reason. (wouldn't it have been more perfect to throw some anti muslim stuff in there too given who the guy was! heh)
That's not normal behavior. At no time did he ever state the individual in question ever stated anything to him about pizzagate. He said he walked in and went straight to the back, I thought he was a security guard. Then he says that an employee grabbed him and told him to get out because it was a gunman.
There are only two potential reasons for this individual to even bring up pizzagate. 1. He felt the need to reinforce the statements made by CNN, or 2. He had prior knowledge of said incident and was a plant. I'm not saying he was a plant, however it doesn't give the said news agency any credibility to have a "whiteness" to a crime discussing his stance on a fringe conspiracy. They only asked him what happened, then allowed him to rant on uninterrupted. He made every effort to defend this pizza place, and bash this theory. It was way outside the norm of a whiteness statement.
If I were describing an incident I had just witnessed, and there was mention of something weird going on, I would make every effort to indicate that I did here him say X Y Z or I didn't here him say anything about X Y Z. Thats not what happened. He not only agreed with said narrative, he reinforced it without hearing first hand why this guy was there at all. That doesn't seem strange to you? How come CNN never asked him how he heard the guy was there because of said conspiracy? At no point did they ask him how he knew this was pizzagate involved. At no point did he seem surprised when they reported it was pizzagate involved. Did the police tell him? How come he didn't state the police told him? It was very out of the norm if you ask me. I'm not saying he was a plant, maybe CNN was just looking for someone to back up their stance, but it was out of the norm.
Well, how about where i have been told to die in a fire. Or where I have been told to take my life. Or called a terrorist for daring to have an opinion. Or the people filling my inbox with some of the most hateful and disgusting things I have ever read. These aren't differences of opinions these are sick shit that the people who claim to be decrying the violecnce are pushing. It's gross and entirely uncalled for.
I get it people are upset about what has happened, but that is no reason for the attacks that are being thrown towards people on this sub. It's gotten entirely out of hand.
You think that it's shills telling you to die in a fire? We all get hateful comments like that. But I'm not delusional enough to think that they are paid shills. Reddit is hateful enough on its own.
I never said it was fucking shills. I said simply that these are the messages I have been getting, period. I am well aware of how hateful reddit can be. If you can't learn to read, then please, leave me the fuck alone.
And sorry if I seem a bit on edge, but after a day filled with some of the most vile shit I have ever read I am on fucking edge. I get people are upset about what happened, but that is no excuse for some of the things that have been said towards users of this sub. It's disgusting, uncalled for, and completely out of line. If people have a difference of opinion that is fine, but there is a way to express that without instigating or calling for violence. Especially considering what has happened. It's disgusting.
It's not the hateful names I care about, I wouldn't give a fuck about that. It's the straight death threats that bother me; even though it's the internet and this is to be expected. I wouldn't expect it from people claiming to be doing so because they are against violence. That level of hypocrisy is what bothers me.
And cool, disagree, that's your right. I would never begrudge you that. If whatever evidence, or lack there of, that comes out makes you think so then there's nothing wrong with that. There's only a problem when you start responding to such with violence or that type of thing. You get what I mean? There's nothing wrong with open discussion from both sides, nor should there be.
Like you seem like a stable dude. But some people, not so much.
edit: Dude or Dudet. I don't want to assume one way or another.
This is one of those situations where I really think that a majority know it's real regardless of the heavy handed shillism going on, shudder to think of the next reality bomb we'll be blindsided with.
The entire news outlets are saying that this whole pizza gate thing is fake and was distributed by fake news outlets. I just want to know in a short summary: what makes it true? Or just link me to an article that's from a credible source. Thank you :)
Well yeah; that doesn't change the fact that around 99 percent of the people that spew this bullshit are hardcore Trump supporters, who have an inherent hatred for Hillary.
Okay. Well the fact that this stemmed from /pol/ and has literally no evidence to back it up should prove to any sane person that it's complete bullshit. But whatever. And I haven't seen a democrat spout this shit... I've only seen it on T_D and other alt right publications, as well as info wars. The beacon of truth... 🤔
I am more against the rabid, unthinking, demented people that pizzagate has brought out.
Aluminium deflector beanie on but what if pizzagate is actually an attempt to discredit the anti-establishment movement by having people go nuts and crazy like i see a lot of you doing.
At one point I think I found some of the definitions on urban dictionary (early in the pizzagate investigations.) these are allegedly what all these code words mean:
“hotdog” = boy
“pizza” = girl
“cheese” = little girl
“pasta” = little boy
“ice cream” = male prostitute
“walnut” = person of color
“map” = semen
“sauce” = orgy
Really? I found two, old definitions for Pasta listed equating it to sex. Perhaps not the exact definition being shown here but either you didn't look, or you lie. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pasta
It's a known pedophile code the FBI has been aware of for some time, and some where there was a wikileak FBI report with these code words listed. I may have it saved somewhere but there is literally so much info out there (& I have saved) it's hard to find again. I know I read it straight from an FBI wikileak tho. If I find it again I'll try to post it.
The truth is all I want, and yet it's almost impossible to get it on the most important things in life. Such a shame that lies and cover ups dominate what the majority of the population on earth receive.
Best example is my current post on r/conspiracy. Right in the post I say that what I'm presenting isn't much in the way of evidence, but serves to keep pizzagate in our minds and mouths, and I get baseless opposition when all I'm asking is for the right to ASK QUESTIONS.
This is misinformation at its best, they're trying to kill it at the roots before it spreads.
If it is a solid theory backed with evidence it would stand on it's own two feet and not need people spamming bullshit constantly to keep anyone interested.
Yeah, all those stupid people questioning you. Maybe you need a safe space where you can discuss bullshit conspiracy theories without anyone questioning the official narrative. The irony.
The bigger story and issue that should be of most concern is the strong arm selling of Fake News.
Fake News tactic is a groundswell that cuts the very fiber of this country. Step 1. is selling fake news. 2. discrediting any opposing view by saying fake news (its like the new racist). 3 bye bye 1st amendment
how much do you think it costs to cater a big White House event and fly people and a shitload of fresh food out from Chicago? $200 and a Greyhound ticket? Get real.
I'm not worried about the shills who pop in to mock it. I'm worried about the ones that have been around the whole time, the ones that injected blatantly false narratives into what I'll call the "evidence pool" and then, with the other shills, managed to upvote it and include it in these short summaries of pizzagate. It's a carefully crafted plan to throw people off of the scent.
To give an example, look at evidence summaries including the alleged podesta sketches. That right there, for anyone familiar with the story and also how there's absolutely no evidence putting them there at the time, makes it easy to dismiss everyone. I submit that everyone sharing it as part of the evidence is, in fact, someone who infiltrated the investigation to discredit it from the inside.
I'm also not entirely sure I disagree with Alex Jones more recent statement. The refusal to spend any time crafting alternative interpretations of the original evidence is not helping either, and it may well be the biggest false flag operation among us. I think there's an entirely different conspiracy to be found among the actual investigation pieces themselves, one of carefully planted individuals with carefully crafted narratives.
Of course, I'll be downvoted because dissent is not allowed in the pizzagate conversation. It's controlled by infiltrators who need to bury reason and massively upvote the tainted "evidence summaries."
I stopped going to Comet Ping Pong when the two for one Tuesday discount was no longer applied to sex with all ages of kids. They started applying the toddler surcharge to both kids.
PizzaGate hasn't even begun to hit the fan. By the time this gets deeper, don't be surprised if some media moguls aren't involved in it as well....hence the blatant put-down and disregard on their networks or in their headlines.
Julian Assange must have known how explosive this can of worms was going to be and how it would impact some of the biggest names around. So he's either never coming out of hiding or........they already got him. I do think it's one extreme or the other.
But as much as we would love to see all these high profile perverts arrested, let's hope it's not too late to save some of their victims.
It only means you are on the right path, and they are trying to prevent further exploration down the rabbit hole. Because this is barely scratching the surface.
What ever happened to seeking a RICO investigation on the Clinton foundation?
I wouldn't be surprised to find in 30 years that Pizza was a diversion to keep the cabal safe by lumping those that want to investigate the elite for financial crime with those that want to investigate whether or not they are moloch worshiping pedos.
They are making conspiracy theorist a dirty word again and that is harmful to the cause and community.
I am so appalled at the inferiority complexes in this subreddit. You so badly want to be in the spotlight and important that you MUST make a narrative that has you as some kind of internet warrior, heroically battling a shadow. Please provide prove the code words are legitimate. That would be the first place to start.
I can explain most of them. Honestly, there's a video that makes it pretty clear. I'll leave it here and also give my own take. Thanks for the kind response I appear douchy but I really just like to speak on logical grounds. Appreciate the comment.
Lemme see, first one- she is a person that receives Christmas packages for Podesta yearly. Just got a different box this year (instead of pasta and sauce, he sent her cheeses this time). What's pedophile code about it? That whole "I think you should give notice..." is an obvious joke if you don't see it from that POV. Think about it, she was acting like it was super official and important when it was a cheese box. I think that's called...humor.
Lmao, not pedophilic at all, unless you are already thinking it is. They're KIDS. KIDS ARE INTERESTING AND ENTERTAINING TO HANG OUT WITH AND MAKE FUN OF. That's entertainment, not fucking them for Christ's sake. They're adults talking like adults about children. Classic confirmation bias.
The box that was referenced in the first quote is the one they're talking about now. I guess they would play dominos on the pasta boxes, but now they have a cheese box so she was again being facetious about the box an playing dominos. Last year they played dominos or something, look through the context emails.
That's just an unfortunate phrasing. I still don't think it is proof of anything. Probably just an innuendo...again, pretty disgusting if you already were looking at it from that side of the equation.
This one is kinda hard to know, it seemed like a typo. But in the emails there are actually two people asking him about the handkerchief. On one they called it black and white, on the other they make a weird typo possibly? I don't know for sure or something, but I think that I would say it's more likely they mistyped (maybe) "pizza-related mark"? I feel like that's one that is really hard to say one way or the other. But to think it's code, is a little much. Look through the rest of the emails, do they use pizza weirdly again and again? It doesn't seem so, it seems like it was just a one-time weird thing. I mean, most all of them were just ordering pizza for an event, or asking if someone wants to go eat pizza. David Seaman seriously used "wanna go get pizza for an hour?" as evidence for code language. PLEASE!!!!!! NOOO!!!!! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO COMPUTE.
Sure, that's true that that symbol was on Besta Pizza's (not Comet's) logo for a second. It was changed almost immediately it seems like, it was the logo you see on google maps, not on their website anymore. It wasn't changed post-pizzagate either. Just seems like they realized the concentric triangles were already taken LOL.
I figure if we've got our tinfoil hats on already, then take a step back and look at the big picture.
Ever since that guy drew a gun on comet ping pong, I've been thinking what would that accomplish. And its clear. Set the stage to ban "fake news".
I don't know whether there's real child exploitation or not, but what is pretty clear is that anything deemed fake news is going to be considered dangerous and outlawed soon.
Full media control, followed by the loss of net neutrality. Theyve got the people in power that could pull it off, they're just testing the waters. Give it a few months, a "fake news" story is going to end with someone dead. No one will believe it was staged. We've been crying things have been staged since sandy hook. We're the internet that cried wolf now.
The response by the media alone has mostly convinced me it's real. They wouldn't react like this is if it were smoke and mirrors. The shooting or whatever outside the pizza place is so obviously a distraction to keep people away from the main story.
If its true they won't be able to stop it. Its already too late for that. They can still get away with it, but the cats out of the bag. Look to the Catholic Church having a generations long pedophilia crisis being covered up at the highest levels. They weren't able to stop that. When it came down to the truth or the Pope the Pope got sent packing.
Anyway, it looks like there was consensus to lock down all media to an approved narrative after the election. Hillary may have fallen, but they are going on without her. I don't think they can do it without the presidency, congress is worthless, the courts are too slow. These things always fail even if they did have the power to do it, its a fools errand.
All Pizzagate needs is a video, like Loose Change, to help summarize some of the confirmed facts (not speculation). Call the video "Cheese Pizza" instead of Loose Change.
Are there any confirmed facts? any facts that would be incriminating turned out to be not true or with no sources, all there is related to comet pizza is "this art is weird" "this guy has weird stuff on his instagram" (the latter being very subjective since most people not looking at it through a pedo lens would view it that way) and that people talk about food too much in emails(and stratfor and podesta emails are being 100% conflated in peoples heads)
You shills are way too obvious. You know this sub has never behaved this way right? To come in here and say "hurr durr, you guys are stupid" is the reason you all stick out like a sore thumb. How about you all join in and actually debunk pizzagate with reason and documentation to back it up?
I noticed that in here, about one day after the election was over, they started suppressing it hard all over the web. Leading up to election day, it was all about suppressing the Podesta emails and anything relating to the private email server. The day after elections, the whole web seemed like it took a breath and went back to the way it was a solid several years ago. Then the very next day, everyone was back to suppress anything having to do with this story. It was astonishing to behold how coordinated it was, and continues to be. There are some powerful people with very deep pockets behind this. I wonder if it's a full-on govt. backed thing, because it certainly seems that way, but the govt. can't be that efficient and coordinated, can it?
I bet the bombshell Assange was sitting on was related to this and is why he dissapeared, they pretend he is still in the embassy because they violated so many international diplomatic relations picking him up that it's easier to just pretend nothing happened
To those shilling who immediately discredit/attack layers on layers of evidence in the possibility of what might be the most sick disturbing conspiracy yet, should look in the mirror and ask themselves if they really wanna be kept with strings over their limbs. Think of it as your child as one of the thousands that go mysteriously missing yearly without a shred of leadway to what might have happened to them, would you still choose to be a puppet to tptb?
Well one of the biggest things to do is to stop calling the shit that's being investigated "conspiracies" because that does the work for them. Calling anything that might be true a conspiracy just discredits itself because of people's cultivated view of people and their opinions who happen to be labeled conspiracy theorists or similar. Basic psyops.
Not sure if OP is the one who made the video but after watching the video and many others that have come out recently. I have to say that many of these rant videos get way to personal. NO one is going to win over any minds talking like this. You have to drop the ego and get the info out there if someone attacks you, you don't attack back. Give evidence, make your stand and don't get personally. This attitude is the reason why people don't take things like this seriously. This is an EXTREMELY sensitive subject, treat it that way. Don't witch hunt, counter personal attacks with facts. That's how you get taken seriously
I'm not offended, its the way he goes off on the person telling them to "fuck off". To me its not a great way to win people over. There is a way to present information and not call someone a "fucking idiot."I think what he is saying in important, its the way its being said that make people not want to believe him
I totally agree with you, in my option more people will listen if the info is presented with a more level head. "Catch more flies with honey" kinda things. BUT that's just my thoughts.
You know I would bet the ultimate truth about what is really going would be so astoundingly fucked, perverted, and dirty even us at this point would be shocked to hear about it.
This shit is institutionalized in some way shape or form and the institutions are shitting themselves trying to prevent any knowledge of it from coming to light.
So in the spirit of our forebears, keep pushing along lads. Only a few more summits and we're there.
its funny the topic of this thread is about the rampant overpopulation of shills and how to deal with them yet all of you are actively engaged in their tactics.
Does anyone here read Vigilant Citizen? They had a pretty good article on the pizzagate "investigation" but when I went to look for it today the article no longer exists...
Go back and read the mainstream articles notice how none of them mentions John Podesta by name, only "Hillary Clinton's Campaign Manager". Seems very suspicious to me.
guys what is the possibility it is a psy op from the get go i think they wanted it to come out. alefentis is the 49th most powerful man in DC.. why do you think that is. they just called in a favor that he owed them. although it is hard to say if they are scrambling to cover it up or they have been planning it all for awhile. perhaps a two pronged attack. normalize people with paedophilia and censor our free speech even more.
This is why pizzagate believers are suddenly against a wall. Anyone who shows proof for silly claims gets ignored.
Most people living and working in DC within walking distance, tend to visit the white house on occasion. Did you know you could also? Write your senator prior though with your date, and blammo, you can visit there as well. Show me a link to an article describing his WH visits? You may be thinking of Podesta, who has had close meetings with the Obama WH on many occasions.
This shows you haven't actually looked at the evidence. First of all, Alefantis has a picture with Obama in the WH at an event where they're playing ping pong. Or you can just look at the White House visitor logs. You don't meet the POTUS by writing to your representative for a WH tour
Looks to me like he visited with the president once, and went maybe as a tourist the other times. You can indeed visit the white house the way I described.
My point was, this "49th most powerful man in DC keeps getting tossed around as if it's real. It's a really stupid photo shoot bullshit article, and Pizzagaters have pointed to it over and over. Take a look. http://www.gq.com/gallery/50-most-powerful-people-in-washington-dc#49
I didn't see an article, am I missing something? It's a photo, with nothing to back it up. #47 on that list is a pitcher, #48 is someone I've never heard of... why isn't it people like Karl Rove, senators..., congresspeople?
Okay, go back to sleep. Hopefully you can convince yourself this discussion was just a bad dream and you can stop thinking about it forever so you don't have to feel uncomfortable ever again
GQ is a huge magazine, but that's not how those lists work. Those lists are pulled together by some journo posting, "Hey DC friends, tell me who is cool!" on FB.
Whomever put that together did so with zero science or methodology. How do I know? I have made these lists my whole career. In fact, I've done similar things for GQ's biggest competitor (I'll let you guess who that is).
Because he is a gay man who has a pretty famous venue in the city, which feels like a diversity pick? I mean, he's the only restauranteur on the list, probably because some editor was like, "Where is food/entertaining on here? This feels like a lot of straight white dudes? Etc." (All things I've said myself.)
If you look at the article, the authors were all pretty young in their career and then moved on to hit politics beats at traditional pubs. (I actually know Rob Fischer, albeit professionally. Nice kid, is now at Rolling Stone I think.)
My mistake. He is certainly a queer nightlife raconteur, from my understanding—and the gay/indie nightlife scene in DC, especially in 2009-2012, was really big and thriving. (I know this because the amount of bands and music that came out of it, and there were all these nightlife blogs that exploded at the same time.)
What a coincidence, /r/conspiracy has also been invaded by shills who won't stfu about pizzagate.
I'm all for discussion about this, I'd really like to see something come of it that shakes the establishment to the core, but it is literally over half the posts on the front page and drowning out any other topic.
There's definitely enough to warrant an investigation and both the right and left media are completely ignoring it with an air of incredulity ("How ridiculous, this is impossible")
I find it even more suspicious that he's been gifted reddit gold. I don't like accusing someone of shilling, and I have to admit, u/talented makes pseudo-sense, but it feels like he's using a classic red herring argument. He doesn't even address the Madeline McCann case, in which police sketches implicate BOTH the Podestas.
Your response reminds me of those 9/11 official story parrots, who think that by debunking the faulty theory of holographic planes, they debunked the 9/11 truth as a whole.
Fear not, I'll pick your argument apart bit by bit and serve it back to you stuffed inside your offered plastic dildo.
Edit: Also, if you were a true conspiracist, you would be demanding and researching both sides of the conspiracy. Not just looking for information that satisfies your conclusion. I asked on /r/pizzagate for information. I guarantee you that there is some good qualified data that speaks volumes about shady shit in washington, but you haven't brought it like they did.
I guarantee you that there is some good qualified data that speaks volumes about shady shit in washington, but you haven't brought it like they did.
Then what the fuck are you even doing taking part in this circle-jerk of aggressive skepticism against those investigating Pizzagate?
Alright, time for some clarifications:-
Do you believe that the current data we have warrants an investigation into James Alefantis (ranked in top 50 most powerful people in DC) and his dubiously "family-friendly" Comet Ping Pong Pizza establishment?
Do you believe there is credibility in the evidence (yes, I admit, it's highly circumstantial at a glance, but it falls into place when EVERYTHING is looked at in unison) implicating the Podesta brothers (oh by the way, Tony Podesta and his wife are also ranked in the top 50 most powerful people in DC) in the abduction of Madeline McCann?
Do you honestly think $65,000 dollars would be spent on flying in Hot dogs and pizzas into Washington without it being some sort of code?
Do you really think a handkerchief would not be code to something very sinister in the absurd context it was being used in by a fucking realtor?!
It's not a circlejerk, well not on my part. I have been around. I live my life with heavy skepticism. Though, I have seen poor responses with no references from both sides way too often. I waste so much time reading source material.
James Alefantis - other than being gay, having liberal artsy bands and occult references. Sometimes akin to 90s death metal I used to see. No not really. I haven't seen anything on the guy that made me question whether the dude was a pedo. The picture of a photo of sex in an art gallery is something the guy definitely should not be posting on Instagram. I am sure there are friends who don't appreciate that stuff. Though, some of the guys complaining in this sub about his Instagram have worse shit in their Reddit history. Yes, I do look. I don't accuse them of being pedos.
I am still reading your links in the other post about it. Links I got to say are rather sketch but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. My impression so far is they rented from a famous guy, Sir Clement, who apparently nobody knew was a possible pedo in his youth. He was accused after death and has no way to defend himself. Though, seemingly credible accusation. Still. Regarding the Podesta's and their possible link to the kidnapping. This was cited: http://victuruslibertas.com/2016/11/do-john-and-tony-podesta-have-a-connection-with-missing-child-madeleine-mccann/. But that site has no citations about them actually being there. "One of our FBI insiders can confirmed the Intelligence community indicates John and Tony Podesta were in Praia da Luz, Portugal on May 3rd 2007– the day Madaline McCann vanished." I mean a sketch site and no references to this FBI anon. I have seen that over the years too often to trust a random person to claim it. I half have the urge to look for a source but I don't want to waste my time.
I do think $65,000 is possible to spend on Hot Dogs and Pizza. The white House apparently can't bring in outside food, so they fly in Chef's to cater specific things. I imagine between setting up a party, hiring a chef and staff, and procuring the specific items that those chefs need. Yeah, I do. My friends spent $30000+ on an engagement dinner party here in California. Nothing about it surprises me.
The handkerchief map reference is a relatively odd but there are handkerchief maps to restaurants. Whether it is code, the link you sent essentially states it is just Gay code. They are liberal, I doubt they need code. I mean look at the public discussions they had. I also don't care about them being gay. How does it connect to pedophilia? The only supposed connection was the 4chan troll comment about made-up code words. I have asked to see actual historical usage from people who have tried to link it. I haven't seen it. Whether that specific thing was we will never know, but John's convo was casual and it was thrown away.
I was promised a pedo ring. I didn't get it. Though, I am sure there are pedo's in Washington. I mean every country has had the problem with people in power taking advantage of youth. I also fail to see people arguing pizzagate forget that a lot of child trafficking has been an evangelical movement to save the children around the world for decades. A lot of it legal but also illegal. Schemes in which unsavory people have taken advantage of. Which is why we have so many adoption laws in this country.
The Rothschild KM then create an illegal taxation System in America:
The KM put an illegal, Unconstitutional tax system in place, in order to make sure that Americans would have to pay for high-level USG spending, approved by a bought-off, crooked Congress and Presidential puppets, put in place by corrupt KM campaign finance.
It is easy for the KM to garner enough money to elect anyone they want, because when you control a bank that is a secret major counterfeiter, you have all the money made for you that you desire. At about the same time that they created their illegal tax system in America, they also bribed members of Congress to approve the Internal Revenue Service, which is their private collection agency incorporated in Puerto Rico.
Soon afterwards, they set up the Federal Bureau of Investigation to protect their banksters, to serve their cover-up needs and prevent them from ever being prosecuted for their child sacrifice rituals, pedophile networks; and to also serve as a covert Intel operation on their behalf.
Note that the FBI has no official charter, according to the Library of Congress, and has no right to exist or issue paychecks.
Interesting spin of the narrative. If I would assume that there is a conspiracy and take Laura Silsby into the narrative I'd rather assume that churches all over the US are really big into the child trafficking scheme. And if I take a further hop and ask who promotes weak social services i had to assume that HRC is just a scaregoat for said people. Which btw. now rule congress, senate and the white house.
-try looking at some of the evidence you are discrediting and form an argument, so that you don't look like your just dismissing it without any logical thought process.
Comet ping pong shooter's father is a convicted pedophile
Regarding the Oakland fire, the fire battalion woman on the news even said "We're all tired, we just want to go home, eat some pizza, and relax." Who is that specific?
Find a victim who will speak then you have a case.
People are claiming "rape" from photo association & rabbit hole digging that comes with confirmation bias. ( do i disagree it's creepy , no - but it's all theory until bodies / victims are found )
Our generation has lived through Cosby, Penn State, Clinton, and the Catholic Church, Franklin. The unfortunate reality is that until victims can be found or speak up - it's just a theory.
I'm not part of the topminds community because I dislike the idea of ridiculing people for their beliefs. If they're malicious, that's different, but over there they're making fun of people who clearly have mental issues and attribute mental illness to people who simply have weird opinions. That's also why I don't post there. I'm not a ban evader because I've never been banned.
If you want to ban me, I can't stop you. I won't lose sleep over it nor create a new account.
You've historically made 2 comments to topminds, one celebrating their 20,000 subscribers so I assume you at least lurk enough to think the growth of a brigading hate sub is a good thing. It certainly belies your claim.
I was more interested that you clearly see yourself as seperate and apparently superior to conspiracists and wonder what you get out of coming here and dismissing our regular users beliefs?
While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".
I read many subreddits. I also made a joke. Note that a "X subscribers" post isn't ridiculing anyone, and I wasn't ridiculing any one person in my comment, I made a joke about pizzagate. IIRC the other comment I made there was arguing with a holocaust denier.
I don't dismiss anyone's beliefs unless it's malicious. You can disagree with someone without dismissing their beliefs. Pizzagate is a bit of an odd one since in this one the gap between strength of evidence and the certainty with which it's believed is overwhelming. With 9/11 conspiracies and such there are reports and historical information you can discuss. With pizzagate there is absolutely nothing to show, and yet all the headlines in this subreddit are "we must keep pushing this forward" and any dissenting opinion is just assumed to be a paid shill.
Conspiracies exist, that's why I care in the first place, and you won't uncover a single one of them if you waste all your efforts chasing misinformation and things that aren't there. This subreddit is woefully short on critical thinking. This is me calling out a troll by EnoughTrumpSpam that got upvoted to 1700.
Pizzagate is a bit of an odd one since in this one the gap between strength of evidence and the certainty with which it's believed is overwhelming.
On that I agree, I won't dismiss it out of hand as there's some interesting points there, and a wealth of evidence for elite paedo rings too, but much stronger evidence is needed before I'll entirely believe it in that instance.
I also actually do believe that a few 'tame' skeptics are a well needed addition here to balance out the few users who believe things at face value despite a lack of meaningful data but, if I didn't remind them to stay respectful or attempt to hunt out topmind infiltrators I wouldn't be doing my job as a mod here IMO.
I agree that saying that something is wrong should be done with respect, since everything should be said with respect. I know that I wasn't particularly respectful about pizzagate, because it's a huge joke. I've been respectful in the past and will continue to do so.
It should be obvious that it's always allowed and encouraged to point out that something is wrong. If you only have a few users who're willing to do that, you don't have enough.
We only have a few users willing to be skeptical within the framework of the rules, you're still here as you understand that and act accordingly. We'd have many more if they didn't eventually lose their temper and go off on the userbase.
My own personal experience is that it's hard to respect people's opinions when one of their opinions is that you're paid to lie by the Mossad, JIDF, CTR, George Soros and/or big pharma.
The problem is that kind of thing does actually happen, but as it's near impossible to tell who might be a 'sponsored' opinion without seeing a paycheck calling out people simply for disagreeing with your beliefs, or just being a 'normie', doesn't help anything or anyone. Hence rule 10.
That works both ways though, a lot of what we are told is basically untrue and only protects the rights and interests of the wealthy and powerful. Kinda makes it hard to believe authority when it's fallback position is 'lies, lies and damn lies'.
Sorry, I couldn't help but look into your post history too. Anyway, if reddit wants to remain a place where you can sign up without confirming your identity then yeah I suppose that you're right, en masse it's hard to know who is paid and who is not. But if you think about it rationally, the percentage of people being paid by some organization will always be extremely small in the face of the rest of us normal ass people who spend way too much of their free time here. If you factor that into you're thinking it becomes pretty clear that there are just a shit ton of people in this world with strong and differing opinions. Doesn't mean we are being paid by the man.
Sorry, I couldn't help but look into your post history too
Absolutely fine by me man.
the percentage of people being paid by some organization will always be extremely small
Undoubtedly, which is why it's necessary to extra vigilant when dealing with users we don't immediately recognise arguing for censorship on a sub that absolutely abhors 'curating' by moderators. It's not our place to dictate what is acceptable to believe if a user speaks their mind within the framework of the rules.
I may not always agree with them, I very often don't, but I have absolutely no right to dictate acceptable topics or act in a censorious manner due to personal biases.
This to me is everything wrong with the vast majority of reddit.
That's all fair and for the most part I agree with you. In my original message I tried to acknowledge that it's a difficult proposition. But what happens when this sub becomes /r/pizzagate2 and not /r/conspiracy? There has to be some limit if we want to retain our identity and not be overrun and singularly focused.
There's always going to be an obsession of the month on any popular sub, the problems mainly occur when you're a controversial sub discussing issues that are taboo almost everywhere else. Somebodies going to get offended, sometimes it's me too but them's the breaks.
I do want to be clear that I'm not offended. It's more that I'm worried we could become the next breeding ground for this group. That would lead to dilution of quality in this sub and take the focus away from general conspiracies. Not to mention, it could lead to heavy policing from the admins like we have seen elsewhere. But at the end of the day it's y'alls sub to moderate, so I respect where you stand. Cheers.
We're just continuing the sub's long established position of non-censorship unless directly ordered otherwise, we're working with the admins already to fight PI exposure and outright stupidity (they've suspended a few accounts already) taking over and the majority of really questionable behaviour is happening over on the voat page. Take care man.
OP is a shill who is pretending to agree with a conspiracy and intentionally circulates false information or acts totally insane in an effort to discredit said conspiracy.
Lol, this is the first time I've seen a shill actually promote a blatant lie. Guys are desperate now, eh?
Look at my post history, it's filled with promotion of anti-violence for this cause. We can't promote a violent mentality on this sub or we will get banned.
Let the record show that user "parachronic" is blatant CTR.
EDIT: Somebody document this with a screenshot, this is a perfect example of CTR we could use this as an example for a portfolio or something.
The longer this incubates without progressing anywhere the longer they will have to implement their draconian damage control tactics. I think it's a race against time. Big Brother is anxious to embrace us all.
Okay. Well the fact that this stemmed from /pol/ and has literally no evidence to back it up should prove to any sane person that it's complete bullshit. But whatever. And I haven't seen a democrat spout this shit... I've only seen it on T_D and other alt right publications, as well as info wars. The beacon of truth... 🤔
I don't know their lives, but if someone accused me of pedophilia I would think they were insane and would ignore them unless they were threatening me. Arguing with crazy is a lost cause.
I haven't involved myself in pizza gate at all. Or researched much of anything. But when I read the "The Washington Post" article about the pizza gate "shooter", and saw it try to mix in the buzzword "fake news" when it didn't really make sense, I saw how hard they're pushing that narrative. They are pushing fake news really hard...
This is a moronic attempt to equate pizzagate to baseless political accusations
baseless ? Why? Because you don't belive in it? Read it up and you might realize that you've been played.
Just stand both stories side-by-side compare all facts unbaised and ask yourself why you have been chasing a rather weak (in terms of proof) story while the other has played almost no role...
Same horrendous topic doesn't make it the "same narrative". I commend you on your grasp of history but it's foolish to use that as sole reason to call pizzagate a political strategy.
I do. For the simple reason that it is probably the world view I get the least.
I read the forums because i don't wanna lose the ability to talk to those people. Democracy means giving everyone a voice and listening to every reason - regardless of how utterly despicable it might be.
I have dug into the story and found only laughable shit. Its funny that instead of just stating facts that support your claim, facts that would be hard to ignore you just yell shill. You cant state the facts that support your claim because there are no facts, it is all a bunch of cobbled together hearsay. Please correct me if I am wrong by just laying out the facts in manner that does not include name calling or require me to jump to a bunch of conclusions. Stop acting like you have proof and everyone is ignoring it, everyone is ignoring you because you have NO proof of what you are spouting.
No harm? People are harassing the business and now going there with guns all over a controversy that lacks substantial critical thinking.
I'm a scientist. If I treated my science like this level of investigation, I'd be torn apart. Shit, I've been torn apart for less. There is zero investigative rigor. Simple Google searches have been sufficient to discredit the wild claims made supporting pizzagate.
No, that doesn't. They let people into their facility daily, they have people who work there who are being threatened who haven't come forward. On one hand, this must be extremely horrifying, and since they have had to call the police, I'm sure the place has been thoroughly checked (also by the health department, which I would look in to if I took these claims seriously...but that's where I would start as a journalist).
Also, you cannot "have" the NYT do anything. I think one of the reasons people defend it so staunchly in liberal media is exactly the reasons I've laid out: We've been covering Marina/Louise for years, we have read the evidence of the emails and the Instagrams, and we don't see anything?
Exactly. I tend to enjoy reading conspiracy theories and seeing if they seem credible, but this satanic pizza ritual stuff is American Horror Story material.
Of course, there will likely not be a smoking gun revealed until January at the very earliest when the administration changes.
Ironically, yes she did do this before. She tried to take 40 children out of the country prior to her arrest and was told not to do this without proper permits. This email shows she was driving around Haiti with a bus, snatching kids off the street:
In regards to the other questions, I have not looked into that and would have to do further research.
Lots of companies went through the state approval process to violate the law and engage in corruption. Getting the veneer of state approval is important if you are going to have a proper cover story so that questions are not asked. Just look at the long paper trail of donations which were made to the Clintons from companies who immediately received economic exemptions upon giving money. The State Department was staffed at top levels with people who were either Clinton cronies or were still actually employed at the Clinton Foundation simultaneously which is also blatantly illegal.
Clinton was stupid and never thought she was going to be caught for this stuff. Otherwise she wouldn't have been keeping her emails on an unsecured personal server in the first place. She just assumed she wasn't going to get burned for this.
Yeah, CTR has become like the invisible hand of the communists here. As soon as someone starts talking logically, the McCarthyist scare tactics come out.
I saw someone jump straight to accusing someone of inciting violence at rallies yesterday. For having an opinion on Pizzagate. It's insane.
While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".
I read many subreddits. I also made a joke. Note that a "X subscribers" post isn't ridiculing anyone, and I wasn't ridiculing any one person in my comment, I made a joke about pizzagate. IIRC the other comment I made there was arguing with a holocaust denier.
I don't dismiss anyone's beliefs unless it's malicious. You can disagree with someone without dismissing their beliefs. Pizzagate is a bit of an odd one since in this one the gap between strength of evidence and the certainty with which it's believed is overwhelming. With 9/11 conspiracies and such there are reports and historical information you can discuss. With pizzagate there is absolutely nothing to show, and yet all the headlines in this subreddit are "we must keep pushing this forward" and any dissenting opinion is just assumed to be a paid shill.
Conspiracies exist, that's why I care in the first place, and you won't uncover a single one of them if you waste all your efforts chasing misinformation and things that aren't there. This subreddit is woefully short on critical thinking. This is me calling out a troll by EnoughTrumpSpam that got upvoted to 1700.
That's all fair and for the most part I agree with you. In my original message I tried to acknowledge that it's a difficult proposition. But what happens when this sub becomes /r/pizzagate2 and not /r/conspiracy? There has to be some limit if we want to retain our identity and not be overrun and singularly focused.
I totally agree with you, in my option more people will listen if the info is presented with a more level head. "Catch more flies with honey" kinda things. BUT that's just my thoughts.
Oh god, really?... You know you don't have any evidence so you go "hey get a load of this guy who loves pedos". What I love is due process and the notion of requiring evidence to prove something. I'm sorry you can't understand those very simple concepts and feel it necessary to take the low-road but I'm not really surprised..
DON'T NEED TO PROVE WHEN YOU ARE THE ONES CLAIMING INSANE THINGS BASED ON CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, Suspected Pedophile /u/inbetweentime. See how it works? Now you're suspected. I'll ask again, cause i responded to lots of people, what's the proof of the code? I thought David Seaman said it was "well-known pedophile code" ...if it's so well-known where's the proof. I am actively asking in every possible place I can and nobody knows the answer. I'll help: IT ISN'T PEDOPHILE CODE, NOR IS THERE PROOF THOSE WORDS ARE CODE
People getting suspicious of 'a man walking with child' is the whole reason The Finders were discovered (and subsequently covered up)
Reading the report, an anonymous caller was concerned when two men wearing suits and ties were supervising 6 children who were "dirty and unkempt". It turned out they were covered in bug bites, incredibly dirty, not bathed for several days, and many of the children were not wearing underwear. Furthermore, their van clearly appeared like the 2 men and 6 children were living inside--they were arrested for child abuse charges and slapped with felonies upon further investigation. This goes far beyond a man simply walking with his child in public. Curiously, this is the only information I can find about the alleged Finders cult. How do we know if this a cover up? The link you sent me came from a site dedicated to Ted Gunderson, who earnestly believed in conspiracies range from the US being responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing, the US setting up the Oklahoma City bombing, Satanic Ritual Abuse, and the NWO.
what kind of harm would be done if the allegations were true but kept being denied?
Because the allegations have to be reasonable for an appropriate investigation. So far, nobody has found the allegations to be reasonable outside of niche internet communities. The real question is, why? Why do you think nobody from the local police to the FBI have bothered to investigate this issue if there is clear probable cause? I can surmise why, but let's get to that later.
It would literally take 1 youtube video of someone being allowed to thoroughly search Comet Ping Pong for the existence of the denied basement, etc. And if it's a family-friendly establishment, there should really be no reason why not...
This is akin to the dangerous argument, "why do you care about privacy if you have nothing to hide?" Edward Snowden, whom I have a great deal of respect for and yearn for a pardon, leaked classified documents regarding the US government's mass surveillance on US citizens. Why should we care about what the NSA does if we have nothing to hide?
Imagine you are driving on the interstate to go your favorite concert. You have no open container of alcohol in your car and no drugs. However, you borrowed a DVD from your friend and accidentally left it in the car, the DVD is Half Baked. The officer asks where you are going, you tell him a concert. He immediately notices the Half Baked DVD box and becomes suspicious that you may be harboring marijuana in your vehicle. He asks you if he can search your car. What do you say? If you say no. He bothers you further, and tells you, "if I just do a quick search of your vehicle, you can go about your day and make it to your concert in a timely manner without having to worry about parking. If you have nothing to hide, this will be quick." Would you agree to those terms?
millions of dollars are being spent ... to discredit the theory and attack the researchers
Can you verify that millions of dollars are being spent to discredit pizzagate and attack people partaking in the internet investigation?
Breitbart's death. His death really came at no surprise to anybody. Prior to his death, he already had a history with heart problems, having suffered a heart attack before. Additionally, further rumors came out to support that foul play was going on with the death of coroner Michael Cormier. I am anticipating that I would get this as a followup response. Cormier did not perform the autopsy of Breitbart.
Additionally, I cannot find anything stating that Petersen's family thinks she was murdered. Could you provide some references for me?
Max Spiers
Max Spiers was, indeed, an interesting character. His main interest seemed to be investigating UFOs and the paranormal. People have speculated that his research into UFOs is what led to his demise.
Max Spiers' death may not be surprising considering he had an opiate addiction, according to his mother. He struggled with addiction, although he may have been clean for a long period of time. But as anyone knows, when opiate users relapse, they often overdose by taking the dose they used to take prior to being clean. This may have been the case of what happened to my cousin with heroin, or it may have been more likely that my cousin died from badly cut heroin. Spiers suffered from headaches and vomited black blood, which sounds like intestinal bleeding. Someone posted on an opiates subreddit explaining the same issues of headaches and black vomit from three days of opiate tea use.Here is Spiers' last interview, he is clearly slurring his words and unable to speak articulately.
Was he investigating pedophilia? In the interview, I think he did mention something about child abuse, but I didn't listen to the entire thing because he's difficult to understand (like Ozzy Osbourne levels). The only other sources I could find on his investigations regarding pedophilia are from very sketchy tabloid websites like The Daily Mail and The Sun, and many websites I've never heard of before that clearly post similarly alarming content.
That's why Hillary Clinton and the Pope himself are trying to silence it. Because there's nothing to see here.
The Catholic church certainly has its sordid history with child sex abuse. But we're still speculating that Hillary Clinton is involved. Perhaps we could even argue that there is another conspiracy that all of these allegations exist to bring down the Clinton, and in conjunction, the Democratic bid for 2016. Republicans have been after the Clintons for decades, with the only thing that stuck to Bill Clinton was his affair with Monica Lewinsky, where he lied under oath. Hillary Clinton has been tagged with a number of scandals in an attempt to bring her down, which, ultimately, ended up wildly successful for Republicans. So perhaps this pizzagate scandal was engineered as high up as the upper echelons of the GOP, implanted in the hypervigilant /pol/ chan communities to rile up the alt- and new-right emerging base.
I wrote a lengthy post, it got flagged for one of my links not having an np, and shows up deleted. Hopefully I can repost it later or something, or you can check my post history, it should still show up there.
Wow, it's long and right off the bat you start by trying to just discredit my sources. Terrific...
Next is your privacy comment...well guess what, places that serve food to the public aren't exactly privy to the same kind as you enjoy.
Your critique of Brietbart is that his claims were unsubstantiated... really missing the point there that his claims are relevant to pizzagate. Not to mention they tie in David Brock (think CTR, Hillary Clinton)
Monica Petersen - you can do a search on this sub if you're interested. What her friends and family are saying is vastly different from the washington post. Funny you discredit former FBI agent Gunderson while most of your links are from MSM publications that are known liars.
Spiers - you couldn't understand him? how is that a relevant argument..
And Hillary is innocent because scandals have been made up about her in the past... ok
Well you sure seem eager to deny what's right in front of you. Most of your reasoning is laughable, to me. Feels like I'm wasting my time take care.
Yeah, we are. You pretty much believe absolutely everything you read outside of the MSM, and I'm skeptical and thoughtful of any piece of information that comes my way.
You have very much shown that to be false. I hopelessly urge you to reassess how 'skeptical and thoughtful' you are, only for your own good. I'm not invested in you.
1200 comments
506 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
I have never, ever seen a story so aggressively opposed. And there have been some damning stories...
This is fucked up, folks. They are literally freaking out right now.
*edit: They've even so kindly volunteered to provide us with examples in reply to this comment! See below for arrogance not seen on this level in /r/conspiracy since election night.
245 theone23four 2016-12-06
honestly, and they're pushing the "fake news" story so hard, through so many platforms. It's a conglomerate effort using a single buzzphrase. Even TV hosts like Ellen are spreading the warning, "make sure you only trust mainstream media and watch out for fake news!". It's getting a bit worrying.
86 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
The longer this incubates without progressing anywhere the longer they will have to implement their draconian damage control tactics. I think it's a race against time. Big Brother is anxious to embrace us all.
31 Blind_Sypher 2016-12-06
Theres scores of flicker accounts that are full of soft pedophilia, pizza references, and shots of comet ping pong. I dont even know how you can deny it at this point.
11 NorCalSportsFan 2016-12-06
risky click.
4 saveprivateryne 2016-12-06
Because you are reading it from sites known for fake news. If you read it from something reputable or trusted all your friends who call you a conspiracy theorist you wouldn't be so misinformed. /s
3 satisfyinghump 2016-12-06
Those sites Dont exist, every "real/mainstream news site" had provided ample evidence and stories that were proven to be made up/exaggerated.
2 Space0range 2016-12-06
Thats your evidence?
10 [deleted] 2016-12-06
No, that's a small, small piece. It's easy to tell the people here who just want to shit on pizzagate, because every time someone puts a piece of evidence in their comment you scream "that's all you have??".
There are at least a half dozen write ups that summarizes pizzagate, but the shills and brigaders avoid those threads.
8 sh3rog 2016-12-06
Lol no James Alefantis's instagram is plenty creepy enough on its own
1 leila23 2016-12-06
I did my own deep dive into that (you and I have very different definitions of "soft pedophilia." Also, I don't know if you are aware of how "in" pizza fetishization is?
Here is my major question. This whole thing is related to Haiti, right? So how come none of the images you cite, of these children being "trained" and "subjugated", are Haitian?
17 TheGreatestUsername1 2016-12-06
The question is, how would we go about spreading it to the general public effectively? I understand that posting it across the internet is a start, but how would we counter against mass media, some of the viewers have so much trust in the networks. There has to be a way to reach the "casual" demographic.
13 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
I think we need help beyond anonymous reddit posters. We need someone with resources to help. Alternative media was the first step towards this, but now it's paying the price for it.
2 TheGreatestUsername1 2016-12-06
I read another comment mentioning tactics that "they" use to increase the likelyhood of smearing any potential evidence or leads. Maybe there is a way to counteract those tactics?
More importantly, find a way to spread the info in ways the "normies" can understand. As long as they see it, whether they believe it or not, they will at least know about it.
4 bryoneill11 2016-12-06
There is no way. This is the only way. Look at GamerGate, Brexit, Trump... It seems this way is reliable too according to those past events. Normies are not needed. Look at Jonestown. Only 1 detective, or politician, or reporter is enough. Theres no need for casuals.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-06
Make a infographic, advertise.
82 TheMotoManiac 2016-12-06
I haven't involved myself in pizza gate at all. Or researched much of anything. But when I read the "The Washington Post" article about the pizza gate "shooter", and saw it try to mix in the buzzword "fake news" when it didn't really make sense, I saw how hard they're pushing that narrative. They are pushing fake news really hard...
42 drutzix 2016-12-06
I googled pizzagate and the first story was an article on vox saying that it was pushed by 'Trump supporters and white supremacists'
Excuse my french but what the fuck have white supremacists to do with pizzagate?
31 The-Juggernaut 2016-12-06
You have to keep in mind how lazy/apathetic the average person is regarding this. I am literally the only person in my family (my family on my dad's side alone is 20+) that has done any kind of research at all. Mention pizzagate and I've been met with blank stares and/or scoffs about not believing in such non-sense. I asked one family member what kind of research they had done and was not at all surprised to hear that they had done zero research and simply took what CNN told them at face value. This is what scares me more than anything. People just seem to not give a fuck at all about this. The shiny TV tells them it's "fake" so it's "fake". Fuck doing research or having your own original thought process though right?
13 Metki 2016-12-06
I think its also because they just can't grasp how unspeakably evil this whole thing is. Rather than facing the diabolical truth, they shut it out and use the 'CNN told me' argument so they atleast have someone that tells them its all good.
For example, my girlfriend isn't as tv-blanked as most people and she believes me when I say there is something horrible going on, but she doesn't want to think about it or talk about it or read about it. I've tried to show her dozens of summaries but she just refuses because she says she can't handle it. It makes her sick to her stomach to think about it.
4 pixiesbitch 2016-12-06
I agree that the whole thing is so evil and that's why people won't accept it. Take my uncle. He is over 40 and is hellbent that pizzagate isn't real. He said I was insulting his intelligence to even suggest it was happening. I don't understand what is so outlandish about these theories though, I really don't, not to the point of vehemently denying it even though I've given him all the evidence we have.
The worst part is, he believes pizzagate isn't real because "half of what you read on the internet is lies" and he believes the MSM is not lying. "Why would RT lie to me?" he says. He actually believes the fucking BBC over hard working research people have done. I guess there's no hope for him. I actually can't argue with him anymore it makes me too mad.
3 FootballJedi 2016-12-06
Dude same i can tell my girlfriend believes deep down that what im saying could be true but its too horrifying for her to think about and she blocks it out/tells me its upsetting her and wants me to stop talking about it.
1 The-Juggernaut 2016-12-06
tell her to buck up and fight it. that weak mentality is no good for anyone
4 FootballJedi 2016-12-06
Its tough man, fooling someone is easy but convincing someone they have been fooled (especially about something as horrifying and batshit insane sounding as this) is very difficult
1 drutzix 2016-12-06
It's sad and scary at the same time.
1 RandomTomatoSoup 2016-12-06
There's only one solution if we are to save our glorious Western society: firing rifles randomly in public places.
1 The-Juggernaut 2016-12-06
the guy didn't even shoot. The one that had a shotgun....oh wait a rifle.....wait two rifles.....wait no it was a shotgun.....hey wasn't he also an actor? Nah fuck it! Just another crazy loon!
1 RandomTomatoSoup 2016-12-06
Wrong. people these days don't even do their own research smh
1 Brandon_55 2016-12-06
Seriously thank you. Nobody in the threads that reach r/all or blindly attacking pizza gate have likely bothered to spend hours looking through the sources and links and other related scandals.
Now that the r/pizzagate was banned people don't have that resource and will entirely learn about it through the mainstream media. Then proceed to wave it off as incredulous and not research it properly.
0 FootballJedi 2016-12-06
Maybe they are drinking too much floride
16 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
7 drutzix 2016-12-06
I found this youtube channel and the girl explains the pizzagate pretty well.
/channel/UC9vwJXx7DR-3zSub4mwQNFg/
The channel name is Reality Calls
1 democracystrikesback 2016-12-06
evil nazi's yadayada, conjures images of "concentration camps" and decades of knee-jerk programming via schindlers list, raiders of the lost ark, american history x and just about every tv show ever to feature a bad guy etc. etc.
1 blacksoulo 2016-12-06
Blame game, misdirection. "Well, I don't believe it...I mean Trump's White Supremacists are making this fake news!"
1 GodOfAllAtheists 2016-12-06
They want all the children to themselves.
29 KingJames19 2016-12-06
Think about how evil "fake news" is...Even if people don't understand how dangerous it is at the most basic level, the term itself is a mindfuck. The name itself creates division, it's fucked.
2 depleteduraniumftw 2016-12-06
It's hilarious. Literally everything on TV is fake and has been since TV was invented.
http://wellaware1.com/artwork/large/kennedy1000.jpg
17 ChanadalerBong 2016-12-06
Yep. Just this morning I heard 'fake news' randomly thrown into a story about Matt Damon and The Great Wall movie.
1 tasty_pepitas 2016-12-06
Operation Mockingbird
0 Tiny_Rick_MF 2016-12-06
They push fake news as hard as you push fame evidence.
19 djklbd 2016-12-06
Yea it seems too rushed and desperate. You can tell there wasn't extreme caution exercised with this one...
9 RDay 2016-12-06
I mentally tag everyone espousing that line of thinking. That way you can make mental note of who is on which side of freedom.
And I physically tag shills on reddit, too. It helps keeping up with the game, when you have a scorecard.
1 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
im gonna try this
107 AnEndgamePawn 2016-12-06
The perp in question has a close relationship with the founder of Media Matters. That org literally states its goal as "correcting conservative misinformation in the US media".
They already have funded organizations dedicated to battling any information they want to battle. Of course there's aggressive opposition. It's not even hidden
6 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
If there is a connection please share it. That would be the smoking gun proving this as a false flag. If you dont have proof DONT spread lies it makes this sub look retarded
3 AnEndgamePawn 2016-12-06
I think you might have misunderstood. When I said "the perp" I meant the owner of the pizza place, not the gunman.
There was a picture of the founder of Media Matters on Mr. Comet's Instagram account, and here's an article confirming they've been in a relationship.
So the guy that is at the center of the pizzagate accusations has direct connections to funded organizations that are dedicated to "battling conservative misinformation". No wonder MSM is defending him so much lately.
4 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
well that is pretty well known on this sub. I think most people assumed you meant the gunman had ties to Media Matters
2 AnEndgamePawn 2016-12-06
I should have specified. Just trying to remind people of that common knowledge, didn't mean for it to be misconstrued. I have no idea if the gunman was really a "plant" or not, but I know MM and Comet will use the story to play the victim and discredit the allegations against them.
1 DankoRamone 2016-12-06
Oh, so this is like the double-good speak of Orwell's 1984. The guy with the gun isn't referred to as a perp or a criminal, but the guy whom there's no actual evidence of committing a crime is the perp. Ok.
1 Doingitwronf 2016-12-06
This. Proof it up /u/AnEndgamePawn!
4 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
6 AnEndgamePawn 2016-12-06
Ol' saggy eyes, I believe
2 DJBJ 2016-12-06
The gunman has ties with Media Matters? I know he's an actor, whats his connection to MM?
1 DankoRamone 2016-12-06
Wouldn't you want misinformation to be corrected no matter what political school of thought it involves?
93 Bing_bot 2016-12-06
Yeah, even my OLD post from over TWO weeks ago https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5er6mz/i_wasnt_buying_the_pizzagate_but_the_fact_that_a/ had 5 NEW comments in the past 2 days, ALL of them posting trolling bullshit how the earth is flat and that pizzagate is the same as the moon made out of cheese, that type of RETARDED PROPAGANDA!
I don't know how owns these shills, but they are RETARDED if they think their tactics actually work, if anything they help us!
41 Making_Butts_Hurt 2016-12-06
These shills and their aggressive digging tactics have been active on reddit for years. A few years, and a couple hundred accounts, ago; some twat was brigading every comment i made, in every sub, with a link to a confession bear I had submitted over a year ago. The guy didn't stop until I messaged the admins. I've been more careful since, but just this week another shill used a shitpost i made as a means of discrediting me. It's laughable at first. Then i remembered these fucks do this for a living.
-5 Kessonl 2016-12-06
Your a special snowflake to think that people are getting paid to follow you and harass you. This sub makes me laugh sometimes. People need to stay on topic, not everyone that disagrees with you is a paid shill lol I swear people this is why people tune you out when you have important things to teach and show.
6 Making_Butts_Hurt 2016-12-06
Can you read the OP before you shitpost? This post is literally about shillfags. When I share my story of being harassed by a shillfag, can you guess what happened? Some loser had the extra chromosomes necessary to go full retard and call me out for derailing this post when in fact it was that slowpoke that was derailing the post with one of the most basic overused shill tactics in the shillbuk of message board faggotry.
21 djklbd 2016-12-06
I know, they don't realize that 90% of what they say is immedately ignored and overlooked...
33 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Nor do they realize how easy they are to spot. It's hilarious, it's literally like they speak another language. Just theirs is composed of non-factual talking points.
8 djklbd 2016-12-06
There needs to be a training course or something...ANYTHING. Because these new guys are just.....just terrible....lol..
2 GoyBoyAdvanced 2016-12-06
Dam strait. They repeat the same shit over and over. It's getting boring.
3 democracystrikesback 2016-12-06
shushhh
0 yes_thats_right 2016-12-06
The fact that you are trying so hard to discredit that the moon is made of cheese is very worrying.
This is fucked up, folks. You are literally freaking out right now.
91 LordPubes 2016-12-06
K.
74 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
There are ways of properly addressing bogus theories - that is debunking the claims that they make. Ignoring the claims, on the other hand, and instead attacking those who believe them, is an obvious defense tactic. You can call the MSM 'skeptics' if you want, but anyone with a brain can see it's an organized disinfo campaign.
63 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
How can these claims be debunked when they are so outrageous and the evidence offered for them is wildly speculative and is supported primarily by assumptions of ill intent? How can it be debunked when anyone skeptical is dismissed as a CTR/shill//pedo/disinfo agent?
A much more likely explanation is that
1) the election is over, and /r/thedonald and /r/hillaryforprison (and many other subs) now have an enormous mobilized and energetic base with nothing to do.
2) so they've focused on pizzagate, because it still (in theory) would harm their opponents, as well as being justice porn/vigilante vindication.
3) now this stuff is hitting /r/all night and day, exposing it to a huge amount of people who are skeptical or think it's outright nonsense clogging up reddit, not to mention subs like /r/wikileaks.
But no, I'm clearly a CTR disinfo shill.
27 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You may not be a shill, you may just be misunderstanding.
You're calling all of the pizzagate claims outrageous? Do you realize people have been suspiciously dying while looking into this (pre-pizzagate)? Do you realize there are direct ties between child trafficking in Haiti and the Clinton Foundation? Etc....
And the organized disinfo campaign refers to MSM. Mainstream media. If you don't see it, you have more to learn than I can help you with.
67 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Yes, they are outrageous. A satanic pedophilia conspiracy is an outrageous claim that requires extremely clear and convincing evidence.
Orrrr I've looked at the evidence offered and found it to be lacking? And what I find even more distressing is that dissenting opinion is heavily downvoted, if not outright banned. How can I be expected to debunk anything when you say:
Which is basically implying I'm willfully ignorant or stupid.
18 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
I'm talking only about the MSM campaign that you've already admitted to be ignorant of. I'm not calling you stupid.
And it's not as outrageous a claim as you seem to think it is. There are current examples in other parts of the world. It's going on all around us. And it's beginning to be dug up.
15 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
I didn't admit to being ignorant, and that's a personal attack.
24 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lol dude... Being ignorant of something means you don't know it. It's not a 'personal attack', it's another way of saying 'uninformed'.
If you personally think that whether someone is informed on a subject or not affects their level of intellect, that's your problem. I disagree. We're all constantly learning.
34 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
You are suggesting I'm uninformed because you disagree with me, which is absurd.
11 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Yea... if you don't recognize the concerted effort from mainstream media... this stems from being uninformed. That is all sorry if I offended you.
2 goddagedit 2016-12-06
See, you are the one who doesn't understand that you were fed a story, you fell for it, now the MSM is puuling the rug out from under your feet, and you are sitting here protesting it, therefore perpetuating the "fake news" trope they will use to censor you. They only wanted to be allowed to censor you, that is all. They got it, because PG people can't step back and realize what BigSphinx was saying, that you have no evidence, and you are just playing a game someone made up for you.
11 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
What a foolish comment.
There was no story being fed.
Have been here since square 1.
5 goddagedit 2016-12-06
OK. So you fell for it, I am sorry. Now you are so sure you are willing to do the work of those trying to censor us. Brilliant.
You think fake news was not designed at least partially to censor PG related discussion? Or that they need more? They even passed a law already. We are toast.
They are not afraid of pizzagate. They just are liberals and don't like Trumpers. That is the game here. Next election won't go the same way, because groups like CTR are smart. They have set up the control mechanism necessary to censor non-liberal discussions. The MSM is owned by liberals, as is hollywood. The entire propaganda arm of the US government is essentially against PG and conservatives in general.
George Soros is paying for this to happen.
5 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
It's waking people up and I value it for that. If you're so opposed to it go start a subreddit for complaining about it.
4 RDay 2016-12-06
Man they are flaming hard this morning, aren't they?
5 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Don't think I've actually ever seen /r/conspiracy hit so hard
-1 RDay 2016-12-06
I'm going to need evidence of this. Factual evidence. Evidence that when I see enough, then only I will decide if it is good enough.
You really are not very good at this, are you?
4 goddagedit 2016-12-06
You need factual evidence of Soros but not of pizzagate? Just think about it, like a chess game. What is the end result of this? Who stands to gain? You think pizzagate is going to get people in power arrested and not the citizens spreading the information? Is that how you think the world works? You need to think more conspiratorially.
-1 RDay 2016-12-06
Nice try.
But no go.
3 goddagedit 2016-12-06
You'll see.
5 RDay 2016-12-06
Dude, you dug 8 deep in a thread to throw shade on a pizza gater. Fuck you, shill.
2 SaturnIsFlat 2016-12-06
You are uninformed. You compare pizzagate to a baseless accusation and refuse to address the huge amount of circumstantial evidence. There is enough evidence to warrant an official investigation.
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
I would believe your little group of morons if you actually did some research into those "well-known pedophile code words". Not to mention there are 150 mentions of pizza in the emails and like 99.9% are of completely innocuous pizza-party related organizing. Love it when idiots get a big head if a bunch of other idiots are agreeing with them based on lack of evidence.
1 trenchknife 2016-12-06
check his comment history. l ain't saying he is being paid to distract and obfuscate certain specific lines of reasoning. but if not, he is an ardent hobbyist at it.
0 sh3rog 2016-12-06
Lol well we all know you're ignorant now
6 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Oh, well now you've convinced me with your rock solid investigative reporting!
6 _papi_chulo 2016-12-06
It is dangerous to think outrageous means untrue
1 FootballJedi 2016-12-06
So lets just ignore the possibility of little kids getting raped and tortured because there is no literal "Hi my name is John Podesta and i eat babies for real" smoking gun, despite the hundreds of bizzare facts and coincidences we have uncovered over the last few months. Not to mention, its outrageous to say something that has been proven to have happened before (franklin credit union case for example, recent busts in canada, belgium, norway) is infact outrageous.
2 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Dude, this could happen at your house, for all we know. Saying it's a "possibility" doesn't make it probable at all.
Again, just because child exploitation has happened before does not mean it's happening anywhere you suspect it is.
1 FootballJedi 2016-12-06
Its not happening at my house i just checked, and im refering to the massive scale and the elite suspects pertaining to this investigation
2 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
I dunno, check again, we should maybe send a guy over with an assault rifle just in case.
No one is a suspect here and there is no investigation (u watch too much CSI bb), just a ridiculous Internet witch hunt orchestrated by some paranoid motherfuckers.
0 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
How is a massive pedo ring among the elites an outrageous claim? Never heard of Jimmy Saville huh?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Outrageous as in serious and extraordinary, and requiring more than wild speculation as proof of anything suspicious. Saville was investigated based on actual allegations by hundreds of victims -- when you have a bunch of victims claiming they were assaulted at Comet Ping Pong, let me know.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
Just because you call something "wild" doesnt necessarily make it so. Id love to go piece by piece with you on the evidence I find concerning to see if you can debunk them. I really hope you can.
I am totally open-minded on this. I thought it was outrageous at first too, but the amount of "wild speculation" as you call it is so numerous, and some of it so astonishing, that I have to at least look into it given the consequences if its true.
You realize there was a long time before victims ever came out while Saville was still abusing children right? Just because we havent reached that time yet doesnt mean it isnt existing. Again, I totally agree there is not ANYWHERE CLOSE to enough evidence to even think about indicting someone or something like that. I just think theres enough to get a few answers from people. Really dont think its asking that much.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Accusing an otherwise innocent person of being part of an international satanic child trafficking cult is a wild claim. The speculation is based on conflating together disparate piece of unrelated information, out of context, assuming evil and criminal intent, and arriving at a vague conclusion. Any person would be shocked by being on the receiving end of such accusations. I think I can say without a doubt they are wild claims; wouldn't the gravity of such crimes be so?
There were allegedly hundreds of allegations made over 50+ years.
Jimmy Saville's crimes are not evidence of Comet Ping Pong being a bedrock of satanic pedophila. And Saville was not part of a "ring".
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
I know Saville isnt proof of Comet obviously. Ya, and we didnt hear about those allegations until the whole thing came to light...
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Maybe you didn't, but the UK tabloids did, for decades.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
So now were considering tabloids, papers that have things like "the wild bat-boy", to be an acceptable standard of public knowledge?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
This is a nonsense reply. Saville isn't relevant to this discussion anyways.
0 riskoooo 2016-12-06
Wow. That's bullshit and you know it. People have theorised on Bohemian Grove, elite paedophile rings and child sacrifice for decades. It's not outrageous to think something has finally come to light. You're talking out your arse.
And I'm not going to argue with you. I've read a lot of responses on this sub that claim outrageous evidence and don't provide any worthwhile alternative interpretations discrediting it; just excuses. The counter arguments are weaker than the arguments and yet suddenly /r/conspiracy has become incredibly close-minded and impartial to what seems like the elements to a glaring conspiracy. It's not the prerogative of a critical thinker to take hard stances when evidence is still pouring in.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
No, this particular conspiracy "theory" is bullshit and I know it.
And yet how much has come to light? It is an outrageous claim, just like the "satanic ritual abuse" hoaxes of the 1980s -- which were totally debunked and never had a shred of actual evidence.
1 riskoooo 2016-12-06
K no worries then.
7 leila23 2016-12-06
Hi. I wrote this last night when I couldn't sleep. It's my personal debunking, as someone deeply familiar with many of the symbols you guys are upset about.
The direct ties to child trafficking and the clinton foundation do not feel direct to me. I can't see how association and/or legal guidance is a "direct tie" or even consigning. But even more, the tie between child trafficking and a hipster pizza shop is a leap that I've been given 0 evidence, knowing Marina and the photos on Instagram, to make.
7 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Okay, I see your view is skewed by your personal tastes, but I thank you for the link.
BTW my true concern isn't comet ping pong - if you're a journalist as you say you should have no trouble learning that child trafficking and pedophilia is, in fact, a very real issue American and worldwide issue that goes much deeper than a single pizza place in DC. Pizzagate has traction and I hope it helps to uncover this.
9 leila23 2016-12-06
I 100% agree with you. Child trafficking is real. Sex trafficking is extremely real.
Thinking pizzagate is problematic does not negate a belief in child trafficking. My former roommate just moved to Florida to get her law degree and use her Spanish fluency to advocate for victims of sex trafficking. She would take umbrage at the work many people have done in this space has somehow been overlooked because of MSM, and that there aren't people who haven't dedicated entire careers to "uncovering" human trafficking.
3 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Well my view is that pizzagate is doing no harm by bringing this to more people's attention.
If the comet ping pong people are innocent, that's great, there are simple ways they could have proven that by now. Instead, they're raising more and more suspicion.
To give you an example of what I mean
Instead of saying "hey look, people, of course we don't hurt children, come take a look around our facility and then eat some pizza", they have the NYT and some of the biggest news publications in the country simultaneously start defending a pizza shop (just one of about 70,000 pizza shops in the US). Does this raise any red flags with you as a journalist?
4 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
3 tomfishtheGR8 2016-12-06
The shooting happened AFTER the smear piece ya dingus.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Hahaha harassed to the point of people coming in with guns after the NYT runs articles about it. Good job.
4 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
No harm? People are harassing the business and now going there with guns all over a controversy that lacks substantial critical thinking.
I'm a scientist. If I treated my science like this level of investigation, I'd be torn apart. Shit, I've been torn apart for less. There is zero investigative rigor. Simple Google searches have been sufficient to discredit the wild claims made supporting pizzagate.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Oh terrific! So which 'wild claims' have been discredited?
0 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
The handkerchief code for white. The only code that suggests pedophilia according to the picture they give. The rest of the codes come from Wikipedia, but Wikipedia doesn't show a code for white, so I looked it up. There doesn't seem to be a set code for white, but the two common codes are vanilla sex and masturbation.
The Antinous statue in Alefantis' twitter profile picture. They ruled that it is related to pedestry, therefore pedophilia. Despite how common pederasty was in the Greek empire, I dug further into the Wikipedia article used to find out the relationship to pederasty. Turns out, Antinous was popularized in western culture that associated him with homosexuality by people like Oscar Wilde. Alefantis is gay, so it is of no surprise he'd use homosexual icons to represent his sexual orientation.
Many other concerns really revolve around the gay community working at Pizza Comet. A gay man poses with a pizza on his crotch and some honey. A photoshopped image of the restaurant with with gay overtones. Things like that.
References to satanic ritual abuse. We are taught about the 80s hysteria over satanic ritual abuse in intro to psychology. Turns out psychologists back then thought they could bring out repressed memories, and their clients would talk about SRA and sexual abuse by their parents, too. Turned out repressed memory recall was a product of bad science, and people were generating false memories that tore families apart. This opened up new areas of research in psychology regarding how false memories, and is still a problem regarding police confessions where innocent people honestly believed they committed crimes later found to be not guilty of.
Criticism of art preferences. Morbid art is appreciated by many. The morbid is a fascinating thing. Pizzagate started on 4chan, ironically, a bastion of morbid jokes and pictures. My favorite pice if "evidence" are the pictures of band posters. These band posters are made in retro style that harkens back to the psychedelic music scene if the 60s and 70s. Even Pink Floyd had morbid psychedelic posters. Fascination with morbid art and judging these people for their art tastes is akin to McCarthyism. Any tenuous link to SRA is considered solid evidence to the pizzagate community.
Portugal abduction? Happened in 2007. First line of evidence? A Podesta email of a trip tout Portugal in 2015. Second line of evidence? Police sketches of two men who look very close to the Podesta brothers. Problem? The two very different looking sketches were made from a couple describing the same event. The couple saw the event together at the same time and were describing one man of whom, they said, looked like a typical Portuguese man. If you look up average Portuguese man, you'll find a composite image made of several Portuguese men that resemble the police sketches.
Pictures of kids? I'm in my 30s, my FB wall is filled with pictures of kids from parents. Nothing new, nothing special.
Jeffery Dahmer like statue? It represents a man falling, hence it is hung up with arms and legs outwards rather than it being displayed in the floor with folded arms and legs like one of Dahmer's victims.
Pedophile code images? Common geometric shapes probably adopted from pop culture references. The heart? Not only does it look nothing like the picture from the website they link, it originated with the logo used for Good Humor ice cream (the identical heart).
References to pizza scattered in the emails? Well, shit, I eat a lot of pizza. So does any department at universities for get togethers and meetings. You'll find several references to pizza in my academic emails. Cheese pizza (CP) to child porn started out as a 4chan joke before pizzagate was ever a thing.
My favorite is the TMNT pizza picture posted by Alefantis. The damning part were two comments left on the post. One guy whose username is drnwo, another conspiracy theory reference, the other had "kek" in his username and a subtle reference to pepe if you check his odd references. Clearly 4channers "touching the poop" as we call it when a person under Internet criticism is contacted by the members of the community doing the criticizing.
The list goes on, but pizzagate internet detectives have done very little to delve deeper into their own claims. It's a perfect example of sense out of nonsense. Bible code level rigor.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Thanks for your input.
If your FB wall is 'filled' with pictures of kids with hands taped to tables and babies with 'chickenlover' hashtags, that's definitely a problem.
0 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
A child with hands taped on the table smiling to the camera suggests no fowl play to me. Seems like a joke about dealing with annoying kids, as they can often be.
Chickenlovers can mean anything. Maybe he really enjoyed that south park episode entitled "Chickenlover" and made a joke. That entire picture was full of nonsense editing for a desperate hunt for clues. They pointed to a necklace and called it a bracelet. Sex bracelets, for one thing, is an urban legend started when kids got big into the charity bracelet fad.
Back to chickenlover, their definition only exists in an obscure online slang dictionary likely entered after pizzagate became popular. The oldest slang definition is on urban dictionary, which makes no reference to pedophilia.
These things aren't evidence. They aren't suspicious. There are a number of innocuous alternative explanations. I'd have my ass handed to me if I presented my research in this format at my lab meetings.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Ahaha okay
Tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles?
0 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Hi, here is a classic image that represents your incredible critical thinking skills: https://redeeminggod.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/creationism.gif
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Hah nice one! Yeah, makes sense. No one should investigate pedophilia until they actually witness the act of a child being raped.
So tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles
0 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Nobody should investigate pedophilia based on internet crusaders pouring over 20,000 e-mails and twitter posts until they found a narrative that supports their preconceived conclusions. That is not a scientific strategy.
And the thing is, a conclusion has already been drawn. Now I'm being accused of defending suspected pedophiles despite living in a country where people are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. The evidence amounts to e-mails referencing pizza, a handkerchief, a geometric triangle pattern akin to very popular pattern co-opted by pedophiles, a heart that resembles nothing like the pattern of a pedophilic symbol, originated with Good Humor ice cream, a common design for ping pong paddles used on a menu at a restaurant that, with enough squinting, resembles a pedophile pattern of a butterfly.
Furthering their agenda, pizzagate investigators linked Podestas and Pizza Comet to the satanic ritual abuse myth based on art preferences alone. A portuguese kidnapping of police sketches that look like the average Portuguese male. Handkerchief code for white that supposedly means something to do with juveniles, but evidence suggests otherwise.
Looking to deeply into photos to find incriminating evidence. The chickenlover photo called a NECKLASS and bracelet, then gave a color code for the bracelet even though sex bracelets is an urban legend. Creepy band posters that resemble posters of psychedelic rock of the 60s and 70s.
Not to mention when you have 20,000 Podesta e-mails a shitton of posts on twitter, you can find patterns of anything you want.
Yes, your character assassinations are TOTALLY justified. Just like everyone should be suspicious when a man walks with his child..
Won't somebody think of the children!?
Edit to add: Replaced repetitive links with less repetitive links.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Same old story from you deniers, you select a few pieces of evidence to discredit, ignore the most damning, and accuse "pizzagaters" of working towards a pre-determined goal.
I don't give a shit if you don't 'believe' pizzagate. But why people feel the need to convince others not to investigate is frankly despicable.
Arrogance. Congratulations.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
I've hit the critical pieces of "evidence" with my posts. Regardless, I'm clearly open to evaluate any other pieces of evidence presented to me, but all I've been getting is complete dismissal for not accepting the current narrative of pizzagate.
But the dangerous thing about promoting pizzagate and claiming that these pieces of evidence are powerful is that it can ruin innocent lives. We have a knee-jerk reaction to pedophilia because it is deplorable, but we have to be careful of assuming guilt based on tenuous evidence. People blindly believe that pizzagate is absolutely real without a hint of skepticism.
I've done my part in providing alternate explanations for the major claims surrounding pizzagate. And I have been more than accommodating with regards to countering further arguments which you have presenting, like the chickenlover example. Instead of providing me further challenges, you threw your hands up and accuse me of defending suspected pedophiles, and that I selectively chosen pieces of evidence to criticize. Well, present me with more evidence and I'd be more than happy to look into them. What powerful pieces of evidence do you want me to examine that I have not already?
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Well no
People getting suspicious of 'a man walking with child' is the whole reason The Finders were discovered (and subsequently covered up). And they were simply playing in a playground.
You're further welcome to individually discount everything that's been uncovered - because indeed there has not yet been a smoking gun - but your warning about the dangers of investigation are bizarre for two reasons. 1 - To use your own argument, what kind of harm would be done if the allegations were true but kept being denied? A lot more than what's happening to this guy & his pizza shop. and 2 - Why are you defending them on the internet, instead of them putting an end to this themselves? It would literally take 1 youtube video of someone being allowed to thoroughly search Comet Ping Pong for the existence of the denied basement, etc. And if it's a family-friendly establishment, there should really be no reason why not... Instead, millions of dollars are being spent in front of your eyes just to discredit the theory and attack the researchers... Apparently to defend one of 70,000 pizza shops in the US... Because obviously there's nothing to see.
That's why Andrew Brietbart was making the same accusations against Podesta five years ago before he died. That's why Monica Petersen's family says she was murdered in Haiti last month while investigating the Clinton Foundation & child trafficking. That's why Max Spiers' mom says he was investigating pedophiles when he died. That's why thousands of government employees were found to be pedophiles and nothing was done about it. That's why Hillary Clinton and the Pope himself are trying to silence it. Because there's nothing to see here.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
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1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Reading the report, an anonymous caller was concerned when two men wearing suits and ties were supervising 6 children who were "dirty and unkempt". It turned out they were covered in bug bites, incredibly dirty, not bathed for several days, and many of the children were not wearing underwear. Furthermore, their van clearly appeared like the 2 men and 6 children were living inside--they were arrested for child abuse charges and slapped with felonies upon further investigation. This goes far beyond a man simply walking with his child in public. Curiously, this is the only information I can find about the alleged Finders cult. How do we know if this a cover up? The link you sent me came from a site dedicated to Ted Gunderson, who earnestly believed in conspiracies range from the US being responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing, the US setting up the Oklahoma City bombing, Satanic Ritual Abuse, and the NWO.
Because the allegations have to be reasonable for an appropriate investigation. So far, nobody has found the allegations to be reasonable outside of niche internet communities. The real question is, why? Why do you think nobody from the local police to the FBI have bothered to investigate this issue if there is clear probable cause? I can surmise why, but let's get to that later.
This is akin to the dangerous argument, "why do you care about privacy if you have nothing to hide?" Edward Snowden, whom I have a great deal of respect for and yearn for a pardon, leaked classified documents regarding the US government's mass surveillance on US citizens. Why should we care about what the NSA does if we have nothing to hide?
Imagine you are driving on the interstate to go your favorite concert. You have no open container of alcohol in your car and no drugs. However, you borrowed a DVD from your friend and accidentally left it in the car, the DVD is Half Baked. The officer asks where you are going, you tell him a concert. He immediately notices the Half Baked DVD box and becomes suspicious that you may be harboring marijuana in your vehicle. He asks you if he can search your car. What do you say? If you say no. He bothers you further, and tells you, "if I just do a quick search of your vehicle, you can go about your day and make it to your concert in a timely manner without having to worry about parking. If you have nothing to hide, this will be quick." Would you agree to those terms?
Can you verify that millions of dollars are being spent to discredit pizzagate and attack people partaking in the internet investigation?
Andrew Breitbart
Tweet in question.. Breitbart determined that Podesta was part of a mass coverup of child sex trafficking rings Planned Parenthood (PP) and ACORN. PP had several undercover investigations by LiveAction to demonstrate PP supports and aids sex traffickers trying to get services for their underaged prostitutes. In all but one case, authorities were alerted regarding these sex traffickers. prior to LiveAction releasing videos, but with a notable exception. PP fired that woman for her actions. ACORN was also implicated in sex trafficking of minors by O'Keefe, but was cleared of wrongdoing after several investigations due to O'Keefe's artistic license and lying regarding his heavily edited videos. Breitbart earnestly believed the O'Keefe documentary, however, the raw footage from the ACORN videos presented an entirely different picture than what they painted. As it turns out, according to California's Attorney General documents, Vera (the interviewee of ACORN) reported the situation to authorities. (read pages 16 and 17 of this document to save yourself some time). So Breitbart was accusing Podesta of covering up unsubstantiated sex trafficking supported by Planned Parenthood and ACORN.
Breitbart's death. His death really came at no surprise to anybody. Prior to his death, he already had a history with heart problems, having suffered a heart attack before. Additionally, further rumors came out to support that foul play was going on with the death of coroner Michael Cormier. I am anticipating that I would get this as a followup response. Cormier did not perform the autopsy of Breitbart.
Monica Petersen
If we believe Monica Petersen's friend, and I don't see why we shouldn't, she certainly was critical of the Clinton Foundation. Petersen, however, was not in Haiti to investigate the Clinton Foundation nor child trafficking. While the reference I linked is critical of pizzagate and comes from Washington Post, they are citing the chief director of her employer, Claude d’Estree of the Human Trafficking Center. The Human Trafficking Center has an unfavorable opinion of those making allegations that she was murdered.
I found a rather questionable article referencing a person speaking for Petersen that's rather damning for the Clinton Foundation. I cannot find this information anywhere else, and therefore cannot determine the validity of it as a result.
Additionally, I cannot find anything stating that Petersen's family thinks she was murdered. Could you provide some references for me?
Max Spiers
Max Spiers was, indeed, an interesting character. His main interest seemed to be investigating UFOs and the paranormal. People have speculated that his research into UFOs is what led to his demise.
Max Spiers' death may not be surprising considering he had an opiate addiction, according to his mother. He struggled with addiction, although he may have been clean for a long period of time. But as anyone knows, when opiate users relapse, they often overdose by taking the dose they used to take prior to being clean. This may have been the case of what happened to my cousin with heroin, or it may have been more likely that my cousin died from badly cut heroin. Spiers suffered from headaches and vomited black blood, which sounds like intestinal bleeding. Someone posted on an opiates subreddit explaining the same issues of headaches and black vomit from three days of opiate tea use. Here is Spiers' last interview, he is clearly slurring his words and unable to speak articulately.
Was he investigating pedophilia? In the interview, I think he did mention something about child abuse, but I didn't listen to the entire thing because he's difficult to understand (like Ozzy Osbourne levels). The only other sources I could find on his investigations regarding pedophilia are from very sketchy tabloid websites like The Daily Mail and The Sun, and many websites I've never heard of before that clearly post similarly alarming content.
Government pedophilia
Yes, shit like this does happen more than we'd like to admit. Although we can't say nothing is done about these situations.
The Catholic church certainly has its sordid history with child sex abuse. But we're still speculating that Hillary Clinton is involved. Perhaps we could even argue that there is another conspiracy that all of these allegations exist to bring down the Clinton, and in conjunction, the Democratic bid for 2016. Republicans have been after the Clintons for decades, with the only thing that stuck to Bill Clinton was his affair with Monica Lewinsky, where he lied under oath. Hillary Clinton has been tagged with a number of scandals in an attempt to bring her down, which, ultimately, ended up wildly successful for Republicans. So perhaps this pizzagate scandal was engineered as high up as the upper echelons of the GOP, implanted in the hypervigilant /pol/ chan communities to rile up the alt- and new-right emerging base.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
I wrote a lengthy post, it got flagged for one of my links not having an np, and shows up deleted. Hopefully I can repost it later or something, or you can check my post history, it should still show up there.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Thanks, will read it on your profile.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Wow, it's long and right off the bat you start by trying to just discredit my sources. Terrific...
Next is your privacy comment...well guess what, places that serve food to the public aren't exactly privy to the same kind as you enjoy.
Your critique of Brietbart is that his claims were unsubstantiated... really missing the point there that his claims are relevant to pizzagate. Not to mention they tie in David Brock (think CTR, Hillary Clinton)
Monica Petersen - you can do a search on this sub if you're interested. What her friends and family are saying is vastly different from the washington post. Funny you discredit former FBI agent Gunderson while most of your links are from MSM publications that are known liars.
Spiers - you couldn't understand him? how is that a relevant argument..
And Hillary is innocent because scandals have been made up about her in the past... ok
Well you sure seem eager to deny what's right in front of you. Most of your reasoning is laughable, to me. Feels like I'm wasting my time take care.
B+ for effort
D- for research and logic
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
The idea is to get a critique of your claims. I'm providing plausible deniability. If you are right, this should serve to improve your ability to convey the facts in a way that they're undeniable. I don't think I'm going to win your mind, but I do hope to give you a sense of what it's like to think scientifically.
They are still private businesses with some expectation of privacy. There is nothing stopping you from going to Pizza Comet to the publicly accessible areas. Other areas are closed off to the public, often for good reasons for restaurants to avoid health code violations, and we have regulators to investigate those areas.
No, my critique of Breitbart came from the source, his twitter posts. I needed context, and he railed against the Podesta because of topics relevant at the time: Planned Parenthood and ACORN. That's why I included those additional twitter posts as links so you can see the context. Imagine arguing with a fundamentalist Christian over the meaning of a particular Bible verse they interpret. Is it not valid to criticize their interpretation based on the context of that verse?
It's not just the Washington Post, it's from her employer quoted in WashPost. I even provided a link to a post from her employer disparaging pizzagate for linking her untimely death to a political scandal.
However, I encourage you to link me directly to additional sources that provide me further information. This should be something you should have on hand or, at least, be able to quickly find. Google searches pull up a lot of noise from very sketchy websites. It's hard to dissect out the credible sources as a result.
Gunderson is used as an argument from authority. Even the most respected, Nobel Prize winning scientists have believed in the craziest of things regardless of scientific evidence (factually incorrect things): Linus Pauling, James Watson, Kary Mullis, etc.
The MSM still has reliable information. The biggest issue I have with the MSM are in two major areas: 1. They're still in the hands of the CIA and 2. They're guilty of omission, rather than fabrication
My preferred source of news comes from The Intercept, but I like to keep my options broad.
I provided a lot more information about Spiers other than his Ozzy Osbourne style of communication. I think the most parsimonious explanation of his death is simply due to his drug relapse. Opioids are nothing to fuck with, especially when you alternate between being clean and relapsing.
Innocent until proven guilty. She has been under trial how many times?
But you don't bother to take the time to elaborate my supposed failings in logic. You hand wave them away and call it a victory. I'm making the effort, why aren't you?
More arrogance and condescension. If you're not willing to bother countering my points with your own references and logic, what business do you have arguing from any level of authority?
I'm arguing from the perspective of a skeptic and a scientist. Here are the basics of the scientific method:
Some implicit strategies are used in the scientific process. You want to employ Ockham's Razor. The most reasonable explanation is the one that is the most parsimonious, meaning the explanation relies on the least possible amount of unsubstantiated claims. The other major strategy is that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
I have been extraordinarily patient and incredibly detailed and meticulous when addressing your claims. If you sincerely believe this is a major issue that implicates the lives of children, I would think it would be your top priority to do everything you can to give me the very best effort and evidence to convince me to support your cause. If this is real, and you honestly believe this, then why aren't you making a greater investment to build you case as to prompt a legitimate investigation?
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Dude.. it's a little absurd that you would try to discredit everything I bring up to you. I'm not calling you a shill. But at some point, when you have to work so hard to explain everything - right down to discrediting leaked agency files - and are convinced that none of my points are valid or relevant, it's time to consider that your own beliefs are limiting you. Sorry but like I already said, I'm wasting my time with you. All the best.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
I never went as far as discrediting leaked agency files. I've provided some doubt about the cult, but I left the door open for more of your input.
Anyway, perhaps I have found it so easy to discredit all of your points is because... they're invalid? Have you actually considered that? Have you actually considered that all of your coveted evidence are really just wild speculation that require absurd leaps in logic?
I think it's time you consider that you came into pizzagate with a conclusion that started with corruption, and it fed your narrative about how the world works.
I figured it would end up here. You guys bitch and moan that the media and the people against pizzagate don't bother addressing "the evidence", and when we finally do, in excruciating detail, you bitch and moan that we try to, and successfully, discredit all the things that you think point to pizzagate. This is why every credible news organization considers pizzagate bullshit. And that's what it is: complete and utter bullshit.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Thanks I am aware of your stance. Don't worry, every single last piece of evidence I brought up is completely meaningless, you are right. Leaked documents are 'invalid'. Historical examples are 'invalid'. Late journalists' investigations are 'invalid'. Everything else I've said is also invalid.
MSM is the 'credible news'.
Very, very reasonable.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
You gave me one leaked document. I guess to arouse suspicion that all males around children is reasonable enough probable cause to assume pedophilia. That means that I should always have to prove my innocence if I have children and want to take them to a playground without their mother.
Historical examples mean what? What historical examples are we talking about? Do you even know? That pedophilia can occur under our radar, even though they're eventually exposed? Shouldn't that promote faith in the system?
What late journalists? Petersen? You have to believe her employer is lying about why she was in Haiti. You have to take it by faith that somebody nobody has ever heard of until her death was murdered by the Clintons to silence her, even though this would, obviously, result in the Streisand Effect. Somehow, the Clintons are smart enough to get away around massive conspiracies, but too dumb to recognize the Streisand Effect.
Or Spiers, this guy believed in several conspiracy theories. He died early, why? He struggled with drugs. The fact that he promoted many conspiracies that most of the world dismisses made him the least possible threat. He died because he fucked up when he relapsed. He wasn't on anybody's radar other than fringe communities. His unexpected death as a result of murder would be stupid to any fucking intelligence agency. Never arouse suspicion, especially when someone is considered a nutjob. You know who coined the term "conspiracy theory"? The CIA. Conspiracy theories existed before the CIA coined the term, but they defined the pejorative, and society accepts this. Spiers was no threat as a result. Again, his death would only result in the Streisand Effect as a result of a calculated assassination. Nobody would have believed him if he uncovered the truth other than small communities. The best strategy would have been to let him do whatever he wanted because he was of no threat.
As far as everything else. I provided plausible deniability. If I can poke holes in your claims based on existing evidence, then you don't have a strong case. That means you must build a stronger case. You might be right, but your presentation is terrible. This is often the case for graduate students (like myself) in the sciences.
As for the MSM. I honestly believe it's hard to sell out if you are truly passionate. The MSM is never completely controlled, even if influenced heavily by certain authorities, like the CIA. This means developing a discerning eye. It's easy to dismiss it completely, but what do you have left? Sources you never heard before making outlandish claims? Renegade members of the FBI and the CIA who make very interesting claims without proof? What about ex-FBI and ex-CIA agents that contradict them? Who is right? Who is wrong? Who is just fucking nuts?
We are not in a post-fact society. We were never in a fact society to begin with. So who do we trust? Why do we trust them? What is credible? How do we determine credibility?
This, ultimately, boils down to philosophy. For a primer in this area, look at Peirce's pragmatism (or, as he redefined it, pragmaticism), and James' pragmatism (Peirce disagreed with James' stances, hence Peirce continued his work under the header of pragmaticism).
I can tell you never thought this deeply before. This is not an insult, but it's readily apparent when somebody has never left the "doubt" phase reasoning when it comes to certain authority. You will dismiss this, but I hope you remember this discussion and think about it over time. Think about how weird reality is. Think about how hard establishing conspiracies truly is as you increase the number people involved. Think about what we know about human psychology, advances in neurology. Think about the uncomfortable truths of Terror Management Theory. Think about how reality is always unattainable, but probabilistic. Think.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Who has this much time to put into trying to talk people out of investigating pedophilia?
I don't even have time to read that.
Saw the last part about "never thought deeply" though. What a truly moronic thing to say.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Because pizzagate was a conspiracy conjured up in 4chan's /pol/ to undermine Hillary Clinton via her associates to promote Trump in an attempt to transform the US into an isolationist country that somehow will bring us back to our economic prime in the 50s without any understanding of the conditions that led to our economic prosperity in the 1950s.
This was picked up in 8chan's /pol/ and leaked into other areas of social media: twitter, facebook (edit, accidentally put 4chan), Breitbart, etc. It feeds into the narrative of the alt- and new-right. They exploited the moral panic of pedophilia for political traction. It's McCarthyism all over again, and it worked. It'll work for awhile until people wise up. Now McCarthyism is a pejorative for good reason. In God We Trust.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
I don't know why you keep on going. Believe what you want. Go enjoy some mainstream media.
I'm sorry that's rude - but we are on whole different levels of awareness, we won't agree.
0 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Yeah, we are. You pretty much believe absolutely everything you read outside of the MSM, and I'm skeptical and thoughtful of any piece of information that comes my way.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You have very much shown that to be false. I hopelessly urge you to reassess how 'skeptical and thoughtful' you are, only for your own good. I'm not invested in you.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
It'd be interesting to find out how I was shown to be false, since you did absolutely no fact checking and wouldn't cite sources. I had spent much of my time looking up your claims, trying to find a variety of sources that put in good effort to substantiate them, and I found nothing that supports your claims. I found nothing. Just a bunch of websites that promote other wild conspiracy theories without any fact checking.
I can only imagine that by referencing Spiers and Gunderson, you believe in other conspiracy theories. Your investigative groups claim Gunderson mysterious death at 82 years old (cancer) was really orchestrated by the Illumanti. I mean, c'mon!
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Saw this
http://www.oneangrygamer.net/2016/12/washington-post-misinforms-readers-about-monica-petersen-pizzagate/18705/
Thought of you and your misguided confidence
0 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Let's deconstruct the information in this link:
There is no denying that Petersen was interested in human trafficking. She graduated with a Master's in "International Development with a concentration in Human Trafficking from the Josef Korbel School of International Studies at the University of Denver in Denver, Colorado in 2014"
She was employed by the Human Trafficking Center (HTC) listed above until June of 2016. This is correctly stated in the Washington Post. The Washington Post made it pretty clear, giving the organization she was tied to, that she he interests in human trafficking. The website links to a Colorado senate meeting article back in January of 2015, which she was employed under HTC, the director of the HTC is Claude d’Estree.
Here obituary I liked further went on to say about her recent activities in Haiti:
HTC's Facebook account has gone on record to discussed her untimely death in Haiti in her involvement regarding advocating for sex workers. Yes, she was there to also start up an NGO.
Your link has gone on to quote her mother:
Unsurprising that she wanted to use her NGO to fund her endeavors involving human trafficking. The NGO never took off because she died two months later. This means that between her responsibilities of teaching and work regarding sex workers, she was also investigating human trafficking. Okay, this is plausible, but is it supported by the facts?
The article gets a little long winded to build up a case that Petersen is still interested in human trafficking (no shit). After slogging through some of that, we finally get back to Haiti and Clinton.
Your link states that Petersen was not writing a 2 year, 110 page expose on Siddarth Kara's work:
Their link to the video FB page has gone private, no mirror exists to the video, but they go on to quote:
Washington Post cites d'Estree in her 2 year unpublished work.
Your link goes on to link to Bella's post, claiming she's blogging for Petersen.
Bella's credibility comes into question based on a close friend of her's, Domina Elle, who argued with people in The Donald about not understanding Bella's true intentions.
From your link:
This is misleading. All claims to Petersen investigating the Clinton Foundation is from a single second hand source.
They end up linking a Podesta e-mail that is concerned with foreign donations to the Clinton Foundation, paid speeches, and her brother's gold mining in Haiti could hurt her campaign. These things were used against her in her campaign, so these fears were legitimate.
Wrapping up
Petersen committed suicide, but this is under suspicion because he was highly motivated and a high spirited person. Although she surrounded herself around a lot of suffering. Her mother is in disbelief that her daughter could commit suicide. This is not atypical of parents. I've seen a lab mate of mine who was a free spirited person with such amazing optimism become rather bitter and foul mood after about a year into the degree program. I warned him that would happen. He's not suicidal, but the situation is also not remotely similar to dealing with the dire situation with sex workers in Haiti. Did she crack? I've seen people crack in interesting ways when stress gets to them. My dad attempted suicide and failed thanks to my mom finding his nearly lifeless body on the floor in the living room in the middle of the night. An ex-coworker of mine a decade ago snapped and murdered his mother. It is possible that after so many years of seeing deplorable conditions and living in them, she eventually experienced willpower depletion.
The Human Trafficking Center and the director of the HTC have gone on record to dismiss claims made by pizzagate believers. We have to believe that d'Estree is lying regarding her work in Haiti and her 110 page report she was working on.
The major source of the claims regarding Petersen's involvement in human trafficking related to Clinton is from an acquaintance of hers, Bella.
Petersen made no point to relay information she gave Bella to other people. None of her other friends of hers were in this loop, especially not to people who would be most interested: those in the HTC.
Why would the HTC try to cover this information up if they were in the know? Collectively, the group would be harder to stifle and members dying would only serve to make Clinton and the Podestas even more suspicious. The HTC would be at a greater advantage to expose these major violations of human rights, and Petersen would clearly know this. That, alone, makes this whole pizzagate subtheory suspicious.
As of now, the Washington Post article remains completely credible and thorough. I think we're seeing a classic case of starting with a conclusion (there must be terrible corruption with the Clintons) and desperately finding evidence to support the conclusion made, which is unscientific and a poor way to conduct an investigation. But no matter the efforts of actual skeptics regarding pizzagate, it'll continue to pick up steam and torture "suspects", family members, and friends in a desperate attempt to uncover a large pedophile ring that goes all the way up to the top echelons of the Democratic party, because, well, damn, that's sexy if you're part of a history making endeavor! In the meantime, pizzagaters like you try to shame skeptics, like me, to silence by accusing us of defending suspected pedophiles.
I've seen these tactics used by several groups: anti-evolutionists, anti-GMO, alternative medicine, antivaxers, 9/11 truthers, HIV denialists, NWO believers, etc. You've made up your mind, laughed at me as if I'm a naive fool, and yet give me shitty sources like this that purposely engages in disinformation.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
lol http://www.psypost.org/2016/02/narcissism-and-low-self-esteem-predict-conspiracy-beliefs-41253
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
I don't need any further evidence of your subscription to ignorance... But I guess you can take comfort in the fact that I - and many others - very much pity people like you.
If you'd like to know why: You aren't exceptionally stupid, but your own willingness to be blind and your literal inability to assess reality binds people like you into a box where your intellect suffocates. I was once there too - a long time ago, mind you. Stubbornness and self righteousness - everyone possesses a little. But you're among the group who have allowed it to overtake all reason. You have become your own worst enemy, you're hard-wired.
You've shown me from the start your inability to think for yourself. Example after amazing example. Specifics are futile with you...
Please go and enjoy your ignorance. Stop wasting your time sharing it with strangers on the internet. All the best (until you come prancing back again) - and I mean it, honestly.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
You've done nothing to demonstrate any critical thinking. You've made a poor case for your argument and the best you can do is attack me for not sharing your worldview.
I'm a skeptic. I've given plausible deniability for every claim you have made. There is zero evidence to support any of your claims, you take it as a matter of faith that people who have died have been murdered, or, at the very least, have died under suspicious circumstances. You wouldn't even acknowledge that Breitbart's claim about the Podestas had anything to do with Planned Parenthood and ACORN, which had earlier posted on his twitter regarding their tenuous links to human trafficking.
You can believe of me whatever you want. I've tackled the claims and have shown that they're all based on a number of additional assumptions that are necessary for those claims to have any validity whatsoever. You've consistently demonstrated a complete lack of critical thinking.
So I'll keep coming back and provide both my perspective and analyses of claims. I appreciate r/conspiracy for not silencing me like other subs, which is a giant plus in their favor. Unfortunately, the userbase is not very receptive to skepticism.
I do appreciate the irony of these statements, however:
Most of your posts have been laughing at others and completely dismissing arguments rather than anything constructive regarding your faith-based belief system. Again, I've encountered this over and over again with Christian fundamentalists, New Ageists, anti-vaxxers, etc. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You are not a skeptic in a healthy sense.
You are asleep, but it's okay, because you still have time to wake up.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
lol, kay-o
1 SovereignMan 2016-12-06
Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.
2 leila23 2016-12-06
No, that doesn't. They let people into their facility daily, they have people who work there who are being threatened who haven't come forward. On one hand, this must be extremely horrifying, and since they have had to call the police, I'm sure the place has been thoroughly checked (also by the health department, which I would look in to if I took these claims seriously...but that's where I would start as a journalist).
Also, you cannot "have" the NYT do anything. I think one of the reasons people defend it so staunchly in liberal media is exactly the reasons I've laid out: We've been covering Marina/Louise for years, we have read the evidence of the emails and the Instagrams, and we don't see anything?
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lmao oh okay.
3 RDay 2016-12-06
he may not be a shill, but he does throw a lot of shade. There is a subtle difference.
One is paid, the other is unpaid. They both push the same narrative, it is just that this guy actually believes he is doing a service by throwing shade on pizzagate.
Motivation unknown at this time.
1 democracystrikesback 2016-12-06
"useful idiot" is also always a possibility
1 know_comment 2016-12-06
if you're talking about human/ child/ sex trafficking- yes absolutely. It's a real thing and people kill to protect it. If you're talking about pizza code and secret child trafficking tunnels under washington dc pizza restaurants... nobody has died that we know of. if you're referring to breitbart's tweets, he was talking about Okeefe's investigation into ACORN where he got them to offer consulting on helping 16 year old prostitutes get social services.
that's a bit harder to prove, but not an unfounded concept. the clintons are very involved in Haiti, whose culture basically revolves around child trafficking (at the very least in terms of indentured servitude, but generally admittedly in terms of the global slave trade as well).
the msm is using this story to promote their "fake news" narrative which seeks to discredit alternative media by associating their competition with racism/ homophobia and crazy conspiracy theories which promote violence. but pizzagate isn't news, it's a scandal which may or may not have any veracity to it (i personally don't believe it does).
remember that david brock (media matters/ ctr/ alefantis' ex) was actually the person responsible for creating and reporting TrooperGate:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troopergate_(Bill_Clinton)
https://spectator.org/49976_his-cheatin-heart/
This is political operative who has SUPPOSEDLY worked with both sides to manage and manipulate information. So while everyone is talking about CTR shills working to discredit Pizzagate, also don't discount the possibility that this is all a stunt by CTR to create a workable story around "fake news" to associate the "alt right" with ridiculous conspiracy theories and homophobia.
1 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
"suspiciously dying" See, but this in of itself isn't proof of anything. People speculated that Michael Hastings was killed under 'suspicious' circumstances, and he may have been, but there was never any proof and so nothing ever came of those theories. If you want to avoid that outcome you're going to need hard evidence.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Ahaha yeah okay
Tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles?
1 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
Oh god, really?... You know you don't have any evidence so you go "hey get a load of this guy who loves pedos". What I love is due process and the notion of requiring evidence to prove something. I'm sorry you can't understand those very simple concepts and feel it necessary to take the low-road but I'm not really surprised..
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You are literally defending suspected pedophiles.
God isn't gonna help ya with that one.
1 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
You are literally - no way around it and simply put - putting forth ideas without evidence and then blaming others for not accepting it. You are no better than the flat-earth retards.. just more cancer killing this sub with half-baked shit
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Ah, now I'm retarded. Me and all the other tens of thousands of people who want answers from these guys.
Please tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles.
0 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
"me and other tens of thousands of people"
Again, you're trying to associate yourself with a big group to prop up your shitty theory by making it appear credible simply because a certain number of people believe it. If you feel the need to do that you obviously aren't as confident in what you're asserting as you would like me to believe.
"Please tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles."
Please, show me your hard evidence. I'm sure you've got some, right? I'll wait..
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
"Trying to associate myself" hahaha
So, tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles.
There is enough circumstantial evidence for a 6 year old to understand, but you might have to look further than reddit coments. Your arrogance isn't doing any good. Not even for yourself.
0 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
"enough circumstantial evidence"
slow clap
I can see now I'm dealing with a keen mind. So that's all you got, is it? lol k..
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
If you weren't spending all your time defending suspected pedophiles you could find out for yourself..
Let me guess, you take pills to fall asleep at night?
0 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
"find out for yourself"
Exact same thing the flat-earth tards say when asked for evidence, so I'll take that as a "I don't have anything else and I know it"
Well played, brah.
7 AssNasty 2016-12-06
So you've dug into the Laura Silsby angle?
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Laura Silsby was accused of kidnapping by the Haitian government, which is notoriously corrupt. Unfortunately, many organizations working in relief services with children -- attempting to place homeless children as US adoptions, for example -- are often accused by foreign governments of kidnapping or other crimes. This is not to say that children are not sometimes removed from safe conditions by shady adoption agencies -- this has happened in Russia, quite a bit; sometimes the foreign parents are complicit in this, because $$$.
Still, this doesn't tie Silsby to pizza or a satanic pedophile ring, unless you assume that all children moved into adoption are sold into sex slavery.
The other thing is that Silsby has worked for companies doing real, quantifiable good for the benefit of exploited children, like the Amber Alert system. And anyone suggesting the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children is engaged in anything but helping kids is off their rocker, sorry.
2 AssNasty 2016-12-06
And silsbys convicted child trafficking lawyer currently serving time in the states?
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
The ten Baptist missionaries in Haiti were given legal advice by Puello. That is unfortunate for them, but he was the one who contacted them after their arrest; there was no prior relationship. I imagine they were scared and accepted the first offer of help.
Puello being arrested is not evidence that Silsby, Hillary Clinton, or Comet Ping Pong are involved in a satanic pedophile conspiracy.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
What does tie Silsby to a corrupt political ring is the 42nd president of the US.
6 KingJames19 2016-12-06
Pizzagate isn't about politics. You find anyone digging into it and they'll tell you it's dems and repubs alike. Motherfuckers saying "it's not real" while doing nothing to attempt to even show they have followed pizzagate or clicked on any links. That's what's stupid. If you're not going to actively participate and debunk, why come here?
12 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Not for everybody, but it's definitely part of it. The most active subs for it besides pizzagate and conspiracy were the_donald and hillaryforprison.
Which is better: accepting all conspiracy theories as valid, or remaining skeptical?
6 KingJames19 2016-12-06
We are skeptics. But when we disagree we discuss and debunk
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Which is what I've been attempting to do.
1 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
You're unfairly putting the burden on people who don't want to believe your theories, when the onus is actually on those making promoting them. These comments are disturbingly similar to those made by individuals in the 'flat earth' type posts when confronted about a lack of evidence. Almost without fail they will every time say "it's not up to me to convince you" or "prove im wrong" without realizing that it's in fact their responsibility to provide a solid case.
3 seekthepwn 2016-12-06
Maybe because it started with the Podesta email leaks by Wikileaks, something which isn't even discussed in the MSM. Where do you expect people to discuss that stuff ?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
That's irrelevant. The fact remains that many people behind promoting the theory are politically motivated.
2 seekthepwn 2016-12-06
Politically motivated how ? Donald Trump won the Election. There would be actually no "reason" to witch hunt for Hillary or the Clinton Foundation anymore.
Nobody wants to push Trump, he's already in the spotlight. People started investigating because it sparkled the curiosity. People started noticing odd stuff and connections.
Tell me please how the outcome of this Investigation would affect Trump's Presidency ?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Obviously it does fuckall for Trump now, but there's plenty of people that hate Clinton and all Democrats -- and this is currently the most popular idea to somehow sock it to those darn lefty globalists.
1 seekthepwn 2016-12-06
Some people hate Hillary clinton, thats why they literally investigate breadcrumbs of evidence to damage her ? Everyone who was anti Hillary basically won. People are investigating because the whole thing is kinda scary. If Trump was somehow involved in this PG thing people wouldn't hesitate to point out those connections, but the fact that there were barely any connections indicates that he is either not in the same boat or he was careful enough to not leave traces.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Yes. Obviously not everyone, but that IS how it started, and the discussion is on subs like hillaryforprison.
I don't see how that speculation is relevant but, okay, be my guest.
1 tomfishtheGR8 2016-12-06
Nice try with add hominem. Attacking people who are interested in this theory is not a way to win any hearts and minds, let alone debunk the theory itself. Besides, the Podesta leaks were blacklisted by the media--the same corporations who were literally FUNDING Hillary's campaign. I'm a lifelong liberal democrat, and it was blindingly clear how the media was shilling for her. Of course they are going to actively suppress a story like this.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
I did no such ad hominem. There's nothing else to respond to in your comment except congratulate you on having political opinions.
3 ThisIsSoSafeForWork 2016-12-06
This would make more sense, except Pizzagate first gained traction before the election. So it kind of falls flat.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
It first gained traction on 4chan, then /the_donald focused on spreading it in an effort to smear Clinton. It's much, MUCH more discussed now than then, which is my point re: why people are being skeptical, due to these posts appearing on /all more often.
1 tr33beard 2016-12-06
Haha how do they not get this I literally just downvote pizzagate posts to piss them off.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
Let's start with an easy one. Is there really a basement under Comet Pizza? Are we really asking that much for someone to investigate that?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
The fuck does having a basement prove someone is or isn't a pedo?
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
Calm down. I didnt say it did. "Prove" is a tricky word, but thats not the bar. It is simply another piece of evidence in the initial investigatory stage.
What it would prove, is that the owner lied about. That much is for sure. In one interview he is quoted about storing food in his basement, and just recently he said he doesnt even have a basement. So some clarification on that would be nice. Is that really too much to ask?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
He said "you could put tomatoes in the basement", and I took it to mean he was just talking about canning tomatoes in the figurative sense, not that he necessarily had a basement. Sort of like if I'm shopping for furniture, I'd look at a recliner and say "hey, you could put that in the study" despite the fact that I don't have a study. It's just figurative speech.
And even if he really did lie about having a basement -- which I don't think he did -- it is not evidence of pedophilia, or of really anything besides having a basement to store tomatoes in.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
Ive never talked about a figurative basement or study...thats really stretching it.
And I already stated it wouldnt be proof of pedophilia. It would be proof that he is lying about something that seems very odd to lie about. Again, just one more piece of evidence.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
It's not stretching as much as claiming Comet Ping Pong is a den of pedophilia, that's for sure. You're twisting a small part of a person's casual spoken language to an assumption that would fit your narrative of him lying. And again, it doesn't matter if he says he has a basement one day and not the next; it's not "evidence" of anything, except the fact that a basement is there or not.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
No. I wouldnt be fitting these pieces together for any old person. I'm looking at all of this in the context of someone (Podesta) who has known ties to multiple convicted child rapists, a man who disturbs people with his artistic choices of naked teenagers in his bedroom, a guy who has a painting of 2 people eating another one. Im looking at this in the context of someone (Pizza owner) who has explicitly suggestive pictures all over his companies instagram like a child with her arms taped to a table, a guy who decided to make his online avatar a statute of a Romans child love interest etc etc etc. These are weird dudes, who have weird fascinations. Im looking at the whole picture here.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Sorry weird art scares you bb
Watch some Bob Ross to calm down.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
Just the art that contains naked teenagers and painting of children being tied up
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Art that YOU think is inappropriate is not grounds for accusing someone of running an international satanic pedophile cult.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
Art that I think the vast majority of the country would agree with me goes too far. Im sure if some powerful right wing guy had "art" with a bunch of Nazi symbols and pictures of black people being abused this would be getting tons of attention. But child abuse? Nah.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
"I believe my personal views to be representative of most people, therefore I'm correct".
It's wonderful there's a little thing called "freedom of speech" (art is a kind of speech protected by the constitution) which protects people who collect, say, Nazi war memorabilia from accusations of being a Nazi. If a museum has this photograph in their collection, does it mean they're endorsing lynching? No, of course it doesn't. It's a crazy leap of logic to suggest that.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
I clearly laid the first quote out as an opinion jackass. Stop changing my words. Do you not know what the phrase "I think" means? Illiterate.
Ya theres freedom of speech, never said there wasnt. Never said owning Nazi symbols or lynching pictures is not allowed. Again, please learn to read before trying to engage in discussion for everyones sake.
So you think if it got leaked that Kellyanne Conway had pictures of nazi and lynching in her house, no one would bat an eye because its just "art?" You really believe that? If so you are naiive.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
At this point, let's agree to disagree. Thanks for the spirited discussion.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Dude if you think that is "explicitly suggestive", that is on you. I think it's funny. Parents do silly things with their kids sometimes.
Where are you from, North Dakota? Being gay and being into art are not exclusively the territory of pedophiles. Some people got freaked out by Maria Abramovic when in reality she is one of the world's most respected contemporary artists. Have you ever been to MOMA or the Chicago Art Institute? Ever heard of Serrano's "Piss Christ"? Or Chris Burden literally crucifying himself to a Volkswagen? Modern art is weird, I get it. Lots and lots of normal people like weird art. It's people like you who freaked the fuck out over Robert Mapplethorpe's photography and wanted to defund the National Endowment for the Arts in the 1980.
1 NotInaGoodMood 2016-12-06
Im talking about having a ton of art depicting naked teenagers and children being tied up...
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
And I just saw a Philly Weekly article where he talks about his other restaurant, Buck's:
"Alefantis estimates, he bought 12 tons of Toigo tomatoes, which Stello turned into sauce and canned before trucking the jars to the basement at Buck's Fishing & Camping, Alefantis' other restaurant nearby."
So there you go. He was probably referring to this.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
What is your personal theory on why Alefantis would choose Antinous for his profile picture?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Probably because Antinous became something of a gay icon in the 20th century; Oscar Wilde wrote about him. Or that it's simply a beautiful Roman sculpture? Antinous has been a subject for many sculptors and his face resides in many musuems; I don't think any of those works of art are endorsements of pedarasty anymore than a Dali painting suggests the artist actually melted clocks in his free time.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
That's an interesting theory. He wasn't the artist who created the sculpture though. He specifically chooses the child lover of Emperor Hadrian, from a culture that found pederasty acceptable, one of the most prominent figures in regards to the legitimacy of child love as his profile pic.
That and the content of his instagram are incredibly suspect at best.
Do you think Alefantis would be able to land a teaching gig with a social media account like that?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
No shit, did you read my whole comment?
What does this even mean? The guy runs a pizza shop. He probably would not hack it as a welder, a golf instructor, or an accordionist, either.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
He specifically chose the child lover of Emperor Hadrian, from a culture that found pederasty acceptable, one of the most prominent figures in regards to the legitimacy of child love as his profile pic.
Given the content of his instagram you think that the reason for doing this was because Antinous was a gay icon?
The guys instagram features a bunch of young children AND Antinous as his profile picture. What a coincidence.
It's a hypothetical question. Let's say for arguments sake that he had his teaching credentials. If he was trying to get a teaching job with an instagram account like that do you believe he would ever get hired?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
I don't know, man. He's a famous subject for classic sculptors. I don't think those guys were necessarily pedophiles either. Do you think Michelangelo was a pedophile for creating the statue of David?
The guy's instagram had pictures of kids on it because he has a pizza shop and kids eating pizza is about the most normal fuckin thing ever. Why is it weird for anyone to have pictures of children? Jesus christ. I'd tape a goddamn kid to the table if they were beating me at ping pong, I know that much.
No, how about instead we say the dude is bagging groceries at your local Kroger. That's as relevant here as any other imaginary job he could have. How about we say he's a leprechaun who's hiding a pot of gold? Could a leprechaun with an Instagram account also get certified as an SQL programmer?
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
If he was fucking 13 year olds when he was 48 then yeah lol.
Didn't want to answer because you know with an Instagram account like that he could never get a teaching gig, despite the fact that someone of his stature should have no problem...because he posts nasty pedo shit.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
No, I didn't answer because it's a retarded strawman.
Pictures of his friends' kids = nasty pedo shit. You're ridiculous.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
You didn't answer because literally no school district would ever hire someone with a social media page like that. Because it is disgusting, he has Antinous as his profile picture ffs.
And date rape drugs, moloch, Lolita, etc...
You guys aren't fooling anyone.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Hardly, unless you have a citation handy. He was idolized through the cult Hadrian created, which ensured him a place in history, but not for "legitimizing child love". Ancient Greek culture of 2,000 years ago did not scorn pedarasty the way the modern world does, that we know, but Antinous wasn't worshipped for Hadrian's pedophilia.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
For centuries, pederasty had long been socially acceptable among Greece's leisured and citizen classes, with an older erastes (aged between 20 and 40) undertaking a caring sexual relationship with an eromenos (aged between 12 and 18) and taking a key role in their education;[20] and Hadrian took Antinous as a favoured servant when they were aged about 48 and 13. Such a societal institution of pederasty was not indigenous to Roman culture, although bisexuality was the norm in the upper echelons of Roman society by the early 2nd century.[21]
Coincidence his profile picture is Antinous and contains pictures of young children that aren't his, date rape drugs, Moloch, lolita, etc...
Not buying it.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
That's just the actual history of Hadrian and Antinous, there's nothing about Antinous somehow "legitimizing" pedophilia.
Like his friends or customers? Jesus, are you going after everyone with pictures of children on their Instagram?
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
And date rape drugs, mentions of Moloch, Antinous as their profile picture, a circle of satanic friends, a close relationship with the Pedo-esta brothers and the oh so wholesome Clinton family?
Yes.
He is one of the most prominent examples we have regarding legitimized pedophilia.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Okay, at this point I'll agree to disagree. Have a nice day.
42 LordPubes 2016-12-06
7 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
36 LordPubes 2016-12-06
Doesnt get more arrogant than presenting flimsy suspicion as incontrovertible fact and ruining people's lives.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
Dude ruined his own life when he chose Antinous for his profile picture and decided that content was acceptable for social media.
3 LordPubes 2016-12-06
Wow what proof. It's settled then. Case closed. Cuff 'im, boys.
2 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
You don't find it strange that his instagram not only has disturbing pictures of children, but also Antinous as his profile picture?
Would you call it a coincidence?
1 LordPubes 2016-12-06
I see tons of full grown adults with even younger looking anime pictures as profiles. Do I flip my lid like a nun catching glimpse of a penis over it? No.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
So using Hadrian's child lover from a culture that accepted pederasty AND posting all the sick pictures of kids is perfectly normal to you?
Yikes.
1 LordPubes 2016-12-06
Trying to make it personal now? Be more objective.
Yikes.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
So you do think it is normal?
-2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
Dude, who spends their entire day insulting people dozens of times for believing in a conspiracy? You're either a shill or a fucking loser, most likely both. You should probably just go.
22 LordPubes 2016-12-06
Is pointing out the neurotic plot holes in your narrative bothering your hugbox? Are real lack of facts disturbing your safespace, your echo chamber?
Hypocrite.
5 KingJames19 2016-12-06
This is conspiracy. Post evidence you have even followed along. You know, participate and debunk. Otherwise, what the fuck are you doing here? Hur dur, this is fake is a little too shallow for us regulars
4 LordPubes 2016-12-06
This is a conspiracy THEORY, and as such it must be measured against solid evidence for it to be proven as conspiracy FACT. Funny how you want skeptics like me to leave. You are just looking for this sub to become an echo chamber, a hugbox of yours. I suggest you go to GLP or thedonald for that.
1 MarvelGrendal 2016-12-06
I've kept up with this entire theory. It has it's odd links. It has it's convincing links. But none of it is evidence at all.
Also, as an ATS vet (before it sold out), I've watched what happens when users fail to use critical thinking and question their own beliefs. A forum for conspiracies becomes a cesspool of insanity. You should ALWAYS question your own evidence and try to punch holes in it. It's the scienfitic method.
1 djklbd 2016-12-06
Do some research of your own. Ignoring even the slightest chance that these people are harming kids is stupid and selfish. It really is that simple.
31 phyrros 2016-12-06
How do you debunk wild claims as these? From the known facts the headline could just as well write "Southern baptist churches gain financial assets by child trafficking and even put pressure on the state secretary to free one of theirs" but oddly enough I don't see anyone making the link - altough there is a abundance of child services by christian missionaries and a long, long history of child abuse by church members.
And furthermore: How come that US evangelical churches put all their money behind Trump/Pence when Trump should be somewhat of an antichrist for the religious right?
I don't hear the question - why?
12 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
That's all you need to say. Pizzagate is well beyond being 'wild claims' if you actually look. You're either a shill, or you're ignorant. Or you're able to personally debunk the theory, like you know, by actually addressing the 'wild claims'. Should be pretty easy if they're so wild, right?
Funny how you used both religion and politics in your attempt to derail. This has nothing to do with either.
18 phyrros 2016-12-06
Using an example: Donald Trump is in the pocket of the NY mob and the russian mafia. please debunk. You can't do it? Well then it must be true.
You call me a shill but I see a subreddit which is bit-by-bit turned away from sceptical about every information they get towards accepting a narrative without even asking twice while ignoring one of the biggest social & finacial changes in US politics.
I is sorta funny how everyone is so concerned with pizzagate while the oil&banking industry gets rid of regulations. Seeing who pushes the narrative I'd say you are the shill.
17 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
This is a moronic attempt to equate pizzagate to baseless political accusations
If you're not a shill you clearly haven't dug very deep into the theory. You have no idea about the Clinton Foundation aspect?
So, either inform yourself, or keep talking about 'wild claims' like a shill.
11 phyrros 2016-12-06
baseless ? Why? Because you don't belive in it? Read it up and you might realize that you've been played.
Just stand both stories side-by-side compare all facts unbaised and ask yourself why you have been chasing a rather weak (in terms of proof) story while the other has played almost no role...
7 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Pizzagate might be a new concept for you and many others. Some have been researching this stuff for longer than you've been on the internet.
Pizzagate for me goes far beyond comet ping pong.
9 phyrros 2016-12-06
and yet you are all defensive about it. spoiler alert: The same narrative was used by e.g. the Nazis denounce and break the resistance of the catholic church. Has there been child molestation: sadly yes. Was that the reason why the narrative was pushed? nope.
Just read trough old white power forums, just search for the narrative of stalinist jews (funny as stailn was a antisemite) being pedophile and raping christian childs and you will find the agenda for pizzagate.
If it really would be about the children there would be a discussion about if and where the sexual theory & liberation of the 50ties/60ties went too far but there is no such thing. Just a narrative.
3 RDay 2016-12-06
Do you really read white power forums?
Bullshit.
1 phyrros 2016-12-06
I do. For the simple reason that it is probably the world view I get the least.
I read the forums because i don't wanna lose the ability to talk to those people. Democracy means giving everyone a voice and listening to every reason - regardless of how utterly despicable it might be.
1 moparornocar 2016-12-06
fully agree with you, being able to see and analyze an oppising view poiunt yourself instead of just taking what the masses say about it as truth is much better. more poeple need to do this, research counter view points yourself instead of eating up what others writer/say about it. too many people have an agenda, and the only way to truly go at something without a bias is to do it yourself.
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Same horrendous topic doesn't make it the "same narrative". I commend you on your grasp of history but it's foolish to use that as sole reason to call pizzagate a political strategy.
0 phyrros 2016-12-06
please, go trough the posts here in /r/conspiracy and you will find a very similar rethoric. Even with the antisemitism.
7 RDay 2016-12-06
The fact you are heavily downvoted validates your position.
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Thanks for the contribution, RDay.
2 RDay 2016-12-06
gotchu back, fam
-1 shug7272 2016-12-06
I have dug into the story and found only laughable shit. Its funny that instead of just stating facts that support your claim, facts that would be hard to ignore you just yell shill. You cant state the facts that support your claim because there are no facts, it is all a bunch of cobbled together hearsay. Please correct me if I am wrong by just laying out the facts in manner that does not include name calling or require me to jump to a bunch of conclusions. Stop acting like you have proof and everyone is ignoring it, everyone is ignoring you because you have NO proof of what you are spouting.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lmaooo you're ignoring me... got it.
0 shug7272 2016-12-06
Wow.... goddamn.
3 RDay 2016-12-06
Do you have proof of this Wild accusation?
We are waiting, shill...
Dude, how do you sleep at night knowing you may be an apologist for a baby fucker?
8 thats_not_kosher 2016-12-06
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Oh my god. How do I sleep? Perfectly fine, actually. How do you sleep being part of a movement that's responsible for the growing anti-intellectualism and post-fact society we're living in. Show me a single piece of convincing evidence. Anything. I'll take literally anything. So far all I've seen is a whole lot of sad little men with messiah complexes. Now call me a shill for not believing in the ramblings of idiots.
-3 RDay 2016-12-06
I don't have to show you anything. I'm not investigating pizzagate.
My issue is you, not them. This is not a court of law, so there are no rules of evidence. This is a god damn citizen investigation, not a LE one, they could possibly be corrupt, possibly not.
NO my issue is not about pizza gate, it is about shill hunting. I like hunting shills because they are an integral part at finding Uncomfortable Truths.
When people like you throw shade, for no apparent reason, people like me are curious.
You are satisfied there is no CST going on here on Earth. I'm not.
So how do you sleep? Denial, I reckon.
8 thats_not_kosher 2016-12-06
Sums this entire thing up quite nicely. You can't. You won't, and when you're asked to the only thing you can do is call me a shill. I throw shade because when I see a conglomeration of delusional people talking nosense, and it results in an attempted shooting I get concerned. No such thing as a simple disagreement. Check mypost history, I talk shit about Conor Mcgregor too. Do you think I'm shilling for Eddie Alvarez? You people are absolutely fucking ridiculous and the sad thing is that you're too rolled up in your messiah complex to see it. You think you're Jesus and I'm the filthy pleb trying to spread lies, and nothing will ever change that for as long as your mind is this unhinged and your self-esteem is this low.
Goodbye.
2 RDay 2016-12-06
Bye. Have a nice Rday! :)
4 rotj 2016-12-06
The reasons seem quite apparent. Citizen investigations have as much potential to cause harm to innocent people as law enforcement investigations when they're on the wrong track. Parents of murdered children are continuously harassed by citizen investigators claiming their children were fake. People working at pizza places are continuously harassed by occasionally armed citizen investigators claiming they're part of a child sex ring.
6 phyrros 2016-12-06
The proof debate goes both ways but okay:
1) David Johnston wrote a nice piece about Donald Trumps past. Not definitive proof of corruption but strong indication. http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/05/donald-trump-2016-mob-organized-crime-213910
andother story would be: http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-dealt-with-a-series-of-people-who-had-mob-ties-1472736922
2) https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/inside-trumps-financial-ties-to-russia-and-his-unusual-flattery-of-vladimir-putin/2016/06/17/dbdcaac8-31a6-11e6-8ff7-7b6c1998b7a0_story.html?utm_term=.2fb33dc1c62d
and: http://time.com/4433880/donald-trump-ties-to-russia/
or for a different point of view cnn: http://money.cnn.com/2016/07/29/news/donald-trump-russia-ties/
and here again: no definitive proof aside from trump recieving money from, erm, dubious sources and selling property to guys like Rybolovlev..
really, nothing to see here.. /s
12 Belial91 2016-12-06
Guilty until proven innoccent is to what this conspiracy evolved.
6 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You realize that people aren't 'guilty' before they go to court, right? But they still have to go to court...
15 Belial91 2016-12-06
They are guilty according to you and instead of providing evidence of guilt you guys demand proof of innoccence.
8 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Never once said they are guilty
They need to be investigated
Very big difference don't put words in my mouth
13 Belial91 2016-12-06
You want someone investigated you assume of being guilty obviously. Yet you demand proof of someone not being a pedophile which can't be provided.
Honest question. What could possibly convince you that this whole conspiracy theory is untrue?
Even if they were investigated people here would just assume the investigation was rigged if it turns out unlike they expected.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Good grief, please don't put words in my mouth.
Assuming people are guilty is one thing. Recognizing that there's cause for concern is another.
What exactly do I need to be convinced about? I am not sure whether comet ping pong is raping kids in its basement or not.
7 Belial91 2016-12-06
I didn't ask what out need to be convinced about but what kind evidence would make you believe that they are innoccent?
Also it is funny that you seem to get annoyed by me "putting words in your mouth" while at the same time accuse people of pedophelia with no evidence.
3 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Regarding comet ping pong specifically?
Or regarding the bigger picture like the deaths of the journalists who previously investigated the Clinton Foundation ties to child trafficking?
4 Belial91 2016-12-06
Both.
3 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Ok comet ping pong - proof beyond words that there is no basement and/or tunnels connected to the establishment.
bigger picture - reasonable explanations for journalists dying after investigating the CF, reasonable explanations for why 5,200 of 23,000 pentagon employees were caught buying child pornography and it was swept under the rug, reasonable explanations for why joe biden is even allowed near children, reasonable explanations why agencies have been caught red handed covering up inquiries into this in the past, reasonable explanation for why the Bush's are proven to have been involved with underage male prostitutes, reasonable explanation for why pedophilia seems to be part of the 'elite' culture. Reasonable explanation for why this kind of thing can be true in the UK and Australia but we are wrong to investigate hunches of it happening domestically.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
If Alefantis hadn't chosen Antinous as his profile picture or posted content that terrifies every parent I have shown it to.
-1 RDay 2016-12-06
I can answer that. When every child that has claimed abuse swears off the charge, and admits they made it all up.
Only then, will I believe that the powerful can not get away with anything they want to do, to anyone.
7 moparornocar 2016-12-06
what children have come forward from Pizzagate? As far as I know not one has yet.
1 RDay 2016-12-06
I'm not talking about pizzagate victims. I am talking all victims. Where there is no more CST, I'll stop nosing around.
1 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
This perfectly describes the situation and what is wrong with most of these posts. They seem to have reversed the process through which these theories are supposed to be accepted, jumping to the conclusion that they are 'proven' when they are in fact not, and that those who don't believe them are required to provide 'evidence' of them being false. It's all so very backwards..
2 RDay 2016-12-06
This is not a court of law. Rules of evidence don't apply. This is an investigation only. Stop.
2 thrownawayzs 2016-12-06
That's the single most retarded thing i have ever read.
2 RDay 2016-12-06
Because if you want to kill a bear, you don't try to clip its claw.
You shoot for the head.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
1 Ambiguously_Ironic 2016-12-06
Stop with this please, this form of childish argument isn't helping anyone and won't be tolerated going forward. Consider this a friendly warning.
0 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
See that's the problem, the evidence is not really very compelling. And you and others like you accusing people who don't find your case convincing "shills" is not helping you. Guys who come on here with other theories that aren't backed up with any kind of substantive data, like "Flat Earth" or "Fake moon landing" receive a similar type of reception and often resort to making the same type of accusations.
14 djklbd 2016-12-06
Wow, you debunked pizzagate all on your own with just one poorly thought out statement! You are clearly smarter than everybody else here!
I can tell you haven't even done a lick of research into any of the information...
15 DDO39 2016-12-06
I could flick through a dozen articles that go through in detail as to why pizzagate is lies and distortion but this will just be immediately discredited because it is from the institutions that are defined in this forum as "mainstream media". People on this forum have a brilliant ability to dismiss anything that does not agree to their narrative so please tell me what it is that you will acknowledge as an agreeable information source??
6 pausetheequipment 2016-12-06
Post your source. Don't just talk about your 'source'. /r/conspiracy appreciates discrediting a theory.
But this one is all too real.
13 goddagedit 2016-12-06
source to what? A website saying those aren't codewords? Words you had no idea could even be thought of as codewords before some random 4channer told you they were? How do you disprove a fairy tale? Should I also prove Santa is fake?
4 Iceboundend 2016-12-06
They can't, "i know the information is bullshit so i'll save you time by attacking it while not linking you to the information i'm discreditting" is their new shtick
Even by mentioning pizzagate they know they're breathing life into it, because people have become accustomed to media propaganda they know they need to see the information themselves.
None of it is evidence of anything but its the narrative that keeps driving itself. Initially a few emails by wikileaks ,but the information is seriously disconcerting.
The media and shill pile on condensing skeptics into diamonds
1 thesarl 2016-12-06
https://archive.fo/MrsGu
0 thesarl 2016-12-06
All you had to do was look at the photos.
Want to buy a German baby?
-1 SomeSuperMegaNiceGuy 2016-12-06
Post one.
2 DDO39 2016-12-06
You see that wasn't what my question was and you haven't answered my question, I asked what is it that would be an acceptable information source, because I guarantee you the two articles I have read will be discredited and dismissed. So as I asked what do you fin to be an independent reliable source of information? http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2016/12/5/13842258/pizzagate-comet-ping-pong-fake-news http://www.newyorker.com/news/amy-davidson/the-age-of-donald-trump-and-pizzagate
1 SomeSuperMegaNiceGuy 2016-12-06
They didn't actually debunk anything, they simply claimed it was not true without providing a single iota of proof. How many times did they use the words "fake" "not true" "conspiracy" without actually providing a single source for their claims?
This is an open investigation, they have not addressed even the basic claims, unfortunately thers isnt one comprehensive collection of all the data put together yet as new shit comes out by the hour and no one is claiming to have all the answers, but debunking the entire investigation without even addressing 2% of the evidence is insane.
I am not here to convince you, if you dont beleive in it then thats fine, no one here is looking to sell anything, we are not making money from this and we are not doing this with malicious intentions. The investigation has bought together thousands of people from different countries, with different cultures and different political ideologies, with one goal. To uncover the truth.
The fact is that pedophile amongst the rich and powerful has been uncovered many many times, and cover ups have also happened, I for one am happy to accept legitimate debunkings, but you have not actually posted one.
This is not an official sub for pizzagate, if you are relying on this as your main source for pizzagate information then i suggest waiting until a legitimate comprehensive breakdown is avaliable, but that wont happen until the investigation is finished.
8 DDO39 2016-12-06
Well did you read the Vox article? I think the outlined credible information on where the story started, how and why and what was not true. And pointed out that authorities had looked into the allegations and found there was no substance to the allegations.
2 SomeSuperMegaNiceGuy 2016-12-06
Of course I read them in the hopes you could provide me with some useful information. You didn't. They did not address where the investigation started, the investigation started back in 2011. The authorities have not looked into the allegations, where's the case file?
1 JoeyBananas79 2016-12-06
Please show me the investigation starting in 2011 A link will do.
-4 jupiter-marino 2016-12-06
Links?
1 RDay 2016-12-06
LOL already had you tagged as shill.
Your existence, and your shillary commenting validates mine.
7 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Carl Sagan once said, "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." If he were alive and came here, he'd be considered a shill for not accepting the status quo
2 LordPubes 2016-12-06
Be still my heart, some anonymous internet retard thinks I'm a shill! You wound me deeply, bruh.
0 RDay 2016-12-06
'k
0 democracystrikesback 2016-12-06
"you're only calling me a shill because i disagree with you!!!"
old faithful
0 LordPubes 2016-12-06
Like clockwork.
69 Vincent_The_Bald 2016-12-06
Hijacking top comment - sorry.
Brothers and Sisters; we are at war.
I, like you, never thought I would find myself on the front lines of the First Information War. It seems though, that we have been drafted, and now we must do what soldiers do.
We must fight with every tool we have at our disposal. Our enemy is insidious, powerful, and very very real. They will not stop, they will not negotiate, and they are legion.
But so are we.
Use the tactics T_D proved effective before it was neutered.
Support the mods.
Upvote like your life depends on it (it might).
Spot the shills.
Dont harass, threaten or insinuate violence of any kind. Downvote and report to the mods any agent provocateurs who make these sorts of threat posts. They are chomping at the bit for us to make such a noob mistake to shut us down.
Browse NEW and upvote. Browse RISING and upvote. Dont just trust the front page of r/conspiracy anymore. UPVOTE.
Join and support those engaged in verbal battle with shills. They cant shout us all down, and the longer we tie one down the less help he can give his crony friends.
Post new evidence everyday!!! Visit VOAT (v/pizzagate) and subscribe. They are our fallback plan if all goes to shit.
TALK to friends, family, anyone who will listen. THey can control some communication, but not all of it. Not till they can control us.
Archive EVERYTHING. Save files to flash drives. Brush up on resources for encryption and hacker protection.
There is a war going on - and history will remember the soldiers that fought it. They have the plans but we have the power.
Without knowing any of you, I can say confidently that if you are on the side of Freedom, I love you, you are my family.
God Bless and Protect You All.
39 wandarah 2016-12-06
Lol
27 XDark_XSteel 2016-12-06
R/conspiracy has "gone to war" constantly. Every single time they circlejerk over some bonkers theory that is too fallacious to ever be "properly" debunked in their minds. Every single time these top minds go around posting hyperbole and accusing any one who disagrees of being shills. Usually this war ends with abunch of people whining about admin abuse and screaming that they're going to go to voat any minute now, but they never end up leaving and staying for good. They always have to come back so they can "fight" their "war".
8 Vincent_The_Bald 2016-12-06
You are entitled to your opinion, and I respect that. That being said; if you don't want to be a part of this particular movement or topic, then why are you on this thread? Genuine curiosity - no salt intended.
5 XDark_XSteel 2016-12-06
I used to browse conspiracy a while ago, before everyone was caught up in politics and t_d flooded the sub with their own users and shitposts. Pizzagate is Donald's pet theory and their way to try and continue attacking the opposition. Not only do they do this, they accuse anyone who disagrees to be a shill and/or a pedophile. Because of this, anytime I see this bullshit reach r/all, I feel the need to come and voice my opinion, like a few others here do, usually to end up being called a shill.
5 Vincent_The_Bald 2016-12-06
You don't sound like a shill to me, just someone who disagrees.
4 XDark_XSteel 2016-12-06
That's good, and thanks. But not everyone who disagrees will get the same response. I just read a thread with someone saying that anyone, no exception, who disagrees is a shill, then suggesting that everyone downvote those people to oblivion
5 Vincent_The_Bald 2016-12-06
Unfortunately that is the effect polarized topics have on people.
I really appreciate you taking the time to talk to me so respectfully, it's a rare find on the Internet these days.
I don't think we disagree that shills do exist, but I certainly don't think anyone who disagrees with me is a shill. A day old account who posts contributing nothing and spreading doubt or posts inciting violence though? Fuck them.
5 RikaMX 2016-12-06
Only time I see Donald and pizzagate related is when people deny pizzagate.
IT has nothing to do with politics.
4 TheMadBonger 2016-12-06
Typical tactic to try and politicize this, and draw sides. WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME SIDE! We want to end human trafficking. And we found some things on the internet that have cause for concern.
When is the last time CNN has attacked 9/11 conspiracy theorist THIS HARD?
2 RikaMX 2016-12-06
Completely agree with you my friend, it's always refreshing when someone is able to take politics out of this and care for the actual HUMAN TRAFIC going on right now.
I'd love for this to happen outside this sub more often.
3 XDark_XSteel 2016-12-06
By specifically accusing members of the democratic party. Now obviously there is no point in arguing this further, since your point will be that they are being accused because they're involved, so let me just say one other thing that annoys the shit out of me. This cheap tactic of trying to appear on the moral high ground, like you two are doing. By saying the conspiracy theorists pushing pizzagate are on the side of THE CHILDREN and are against HUMAN TRAFFIC implying that those who disagree are for HUMAN TRAFFIC and are pedophiles.
3 RikaMX 2016-12-06
Why go to the extreme? I'm just saying it has nothing to do with politics.
It wouldn't surprise me that members of the republic party might be involved in some way, this is not about politics.
Look, people have their own personal reasons to try and stop human traffic, if you don't want anything to do with it it's ok, you can also be skeptical.
The thing we don't like is when people repeat what the MSM says, all we ask is to people to form their own opinions, if after reading everything you still think there are just "a lot of coincidences" then fine.
That's honestly all I ever asked, too many coincidences is where we are at, and until something blows up big it will be like that.
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
If you think it had nothing to do with politics, why are only democrats being invoked in the situation? Only libs are part of pedophile rings, right?
2 RikaMX 2016-12-06
Nope, I'm pretty sure that if this thing is real many politics will be involved from both parties.
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
Remind me why there are no republicans invoked in the story then? Oh that's right, the owner of the pizza shop was the boyfriend of one of Clinton's top surrogates.
2 RikaMX 2016-12-06
Because it all started with Podesta?
There are not republicans involved still, we dont know a lot of things.
You seem pretty defensive, im just a guy that believes that there are too many coincidences to ignore.
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
Just defending logic. Of course this witch hunt is political in nature. I have been watching the videos people put up and they make crazy claims and say stuff like "these globalist elite pedophiles, hillary clinton blah blah blah"...it ain't random. I'm just a guy who actually wants proof before I believe in a witch hunt started by internet morons. It makes me mad when people don't value the truth or stay objective until they really have proof. I am gonna say it again, there is no PROOF FOR ANY OF THIS. PROOF. PROOF! NOT FUCKING STUPID INSTAGRAM PICTURES. PROOF. proof of the "code?". I can debunk your stupid shit and that's why it's so sad to have to sit here and backtrack like 8 logical leaps back to normal waters that are supported by proof.
2 RikaMX 2016-12-06
Im not an extremist so I wont comment on that.
As I said, im just a guy that believes there are too many coincidences, and it should be investigated if kids lives are on stake.
Rant about logic all you want, I firmly believe there are too many coincidences to simply ignore.
And the instagram pics still give me thw creeps every day.
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
So you have an insane opinion based on no logic and facts. Why don't we start breaking down the coincidences one by one. Serve 'em up i'll swat 'em down
2 RikaMX 2016-12-06
If you were a little more interesting to me I would, but I dont really like your personality and I dont feel lile wasting time with someone like you, you believe whatever you want man, have a nice day.
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
Awwwwww sorry honey :'( I thought it would have been fun to slay 90% of the conspiracy in an open forum. I guess you'll have to find a personality you like more so they can serve up some debunking
2 RikaMX 2016-12-06
This is exactly why I'm not interested, I can get this kind of response from a kindergardener man, what's wrong with you lmao.
Moving on now.
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
Close your ears, move along now. i'll be waiting for you to come back and watch your silliness collapse
2 RikaMX 2016-12-06
lol ok man.
3 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
Just let it play out. It will be forgotten about like all of the other 'wars' they think they were a part of.
13 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Yes! Thanks for that.
2 virusporn 2016-12-06
Fellate yourself harder.
2 uberkitten 2016-12-06
lmao
1 QuadrupleEntendre 2016-12-06
Xpost r/sadcringe
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
Hahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahah people like this are such insane children. You need pizza gate to make you seem informed and important. PIZZA GATE.
1 DankoRamone 2016-12-06
How does one get a job as a shill, anyhow?
1 Vincent_The_Bald 2016-12-06
You'll need a 2 page doubled spaced 12 pt Resume, bury it in the ground at a crossroads, then cut your palm deep enough to bleed, and wait.
32 dabulls113 2016-12-06
I'm not opposed just skeptical, I need more definitive proof.
116 fiasco817 2016-12-06
Everyone please look into Laura Silsby. She was caught in Haiti and jailed for trying to traffic 33 children and the first thing the Clinton Foundation did when they moved into Haiti was Hillary pardoned her, and she now creepily works on the board of directors for a company called AlertSense that is in charge of issuing amber alerts. https://www.alertsense.com/company/executive-team/ (Laura Silsby-Gayler)
The lawyer Hillary used to help absolve Laura also was a convicted child trafficker, you just can't make this stuff up.
So basically, a woman who served time for trafficking kids in Haiti now sits on the board of a company that serves as the backbone for many local authorities when they want to issue Amber Alerts.
WikiLeaks also retweeted this story confirming it's truth and supported with emails to and from Hillary: https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/794247777756860417
WikiLeaks then confirmed Hillary has a LONG history with convicted child trafficker and kidnapper Laura Silsby, and Huma Abedin (vice chairwoman of Hillary's 2016 presidential campaign) has been forwarding emails about Laura Silsby's non government organization to Hillary for years.
Laura Silsby was also former director of The New Life Children's Refuge, the same group that was busted by Haitian authorities trying to traffic kids:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Life_Children%27s_Refuge_case
And the video below is about a bunch of Haitians protesting the evils of the Clintons, and the man protesting in the video mentions how the Clintons have exploited Haiti's resources for themselves, and even specifically mentions people in Haiti are afraid to go out at night because of fear of kidnapping. (4:48 in the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PeO0SfCw5s&list=PLeAhFbYkBiH1sLiFUnWChhofsYQk7Mc9M&index=66
At around the 2:00 mark he even mentions Tony Rodham (Hillary's brother) is now in charge of gold mines in Haiti and sits on the gold mine's board of directors.
Many people are talking about this story, continue to spread the word!! We need justice for these crimes, and the Clintons should be in prison.
19 phyrros 2016-12-06
So, a group of baptist missionaries from idaho are the forefront of child traffickers? read: http://harvardhrj.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/King.pdf
If anything this is a case against the ignorance and arrogance of US churches and US politics.
10 godlameroso 2016-12-06
Like the church isn't full of pedos, you act like people in positions of authority can do no wrong.
5 phyrros 2016-12-06
Oh they can (and did) a lot of things wrong. I'm just wondering why the push for pizzagate is coming right now and if we are in reality not barking the wrong tree..
1 godlameroso 2016-12-06
I don't know, a few kooks talking about flat earths and crop circles is one thing, there's a lot of people, and a lot of evidence is trickling in. On the other hand these are very serious allegations, and have ruined lives, on the other hand if it is true it's some disgusting shit that should be exposed. Not covered up, the people responsible shouldn't get a slap on the wrist, because anyone else would get lynched. If it is true and nothing is done it means laws hold no meaning, the implication could destroy our notion of reality.
I pray it isn't true and that people who have almost unlmited power are completely incorruptible and do nothing but good. But I know I'm only kidding myself, you cannot deny human nature, if you do it becomes grotesque.
Much like the 7 deadly sins are basically aberrations of normal animal behavior. Gluttony, being a disfigured version of hunger etc.
1 phyrros 2016-12-06
hold on, ..
First of all we are talking about two different things - pizzagate is all about a global liberal conspiracy of pedophiles and not about an actual case of child molestation, which is exactly the reason why it is shunned and why it will lead nowhere except strengthening the narrative of an pedophile elite in certain parts of society.
Furthermore pedophilia and child molestation is used as one-and-the-same which is not only not true but won't help anyone as it reduces the amount of pedophilies seeking help instead of either fighting on their own or giving in to their urges.
Without a doubt there will be pedophilies among the elite - but should we assume that there are actually far more pedophiles among the elite than among e.g. workers?
It is actually easy: Never ever vote for someone who used his influence and power to gain sexual favors. Never ever look away when someone speaks up about rape or sexual harrasment. But also: Never condemn before you are completely sure.
And yet these bastards get voted for and are admired for their virtility. Be it Berlusconi in Italy, be it Bill Clinton or Trump in the States.
Even when it comes to child molestation people tend to look away for a long time, ignore signs in their own family, are mostly afraid of strangers. Our perception is crooked.
1 godlameroso 2016-12-06
easier said than done.
1 phyrros 2016-12-06
If wu would ask our grandmothers and mothers they would say something along the line of "nothing worth fighting for ever is"
2 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
More likely they are your standard Christian missionaries trying to save the "barbarians" by doing typical culturally insensitive shit.
1 jedify 2016-12-06
Which church?
1 godlameroso 2016-12-06
Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Jewish, take your pick.
1 jedify 2016-12-06
Source?
1 godlameroso 2016-12-06
You're kidding right?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases
0 jedify 2016-12-06
1) that's the wrong church.
2) your assertion implies there are more pedos in church work than the average population. Source?
1 godlameroso 2016-12-06
You're making it imply that.
15 NinjaSupplyCompany 2016-12-06
Skeptic here just looking for clues. Can you show me the link between Clinton and the Silsby pardon?
All I can find is emails from Huma about the case but I can't seem to find anything showing any response from Clinton and can't find anything about her pardoning Silsby.
18 rotj 2016-12-06
There was no Hillary pardon. What does that even mean? She was convicted in Haitian court and sentenced to time served. Her biggest US government advocates were 2 senators and 2 congressmen from her home state of Idaho, all but one of whom are Republican. And they were the ones who pushed the State Department to take an active interest in the case.
13 NinjaSupplyCompany 2016-12-06
So why does that narrative keep getting pushed here? Seems like Reddit keeps telling me Clinton was in Haiti eating kids.
11 rotj 2016-12-06
Facts convenient to [insert agenda here] are pushed and facts inconvenient to it are ignored. It's how any position driven by ideologues is handled.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
http://harvardhrj.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/King.pdf
Harvard Human Rights Journal would disagree with you.
3 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
That's what I keep wondering.
1 Harambe_Remembers 2016-12-06
http://harvardhrj.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/King.pdf
They mixed up some details, but mostly got it right.
Bill Clinton actually brokered the deal to release the child-traffickers, but Silsby had to serve time.
1 leila23 2016-12-06
Who is that man? Has he been identified? Does he do interviews? I would love to speak to him.
-8 digitalbitch 2016-12-06
Those links are the dumbest thing I have see on this false story in a while. Pizza gaters are as thick as shit.
-10 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Show me the smoking gun.
7 PleadingtheYiff 2016-12-06
This is a smoking gun lad. 1) Hillary breached State Department protocol by helping Silsby get a lawyer. That is never done by State, the most they are allowed to do is provide a list of legal representation that the American citizen could then choose from. 2) Bill used his political influence with the Haitian government to get Silsby off the hook, commuting her sentence and getting her co conspirators released immediately.
You'd have to have video of the Clintons literally boning a teenager to get a more smoking gun than that.
2 dabulls113 2016-12-06
If you are correct then you could attempt to charge Hillary for breaking govt protocol.
Could it be that Hillary was helping Silsby because Silsby was in fact attempting to do good but there was a legal slip up with Haiti?
7 Sabremesh 2016-12-06
Are you really trying to justify transporting a large number of undocumented, non-orphaned children across an international border as "attempting to do good"?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Life_Children%27s_Refuge_case
1 psyboar 2016-12-06
Did the families of the children want them to leave the country? Were they effectively kidnapped or not?
4 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
2 psyboar 2016-12-06
???
Don't you see how if the families wanted them to leave the county, then reducing the charges to just 'illegal travel' makes sense?
However if they were kidnapped that supports pizzagate and it supports the direct involvement of Hillary.
Why on earth do you think I'm a shill? Do you just insult anyone who asks reasonable questions?
Please stop. You are not helping anyone.
2 psyboar 2016-12-06
Calling a 5 year old account a "stupid fucking shill", that has made zero pro Clinton comments, is just plain stupid.
1 Ambiguously_Ironic 2016-12-06
Rule 10, first warning.
3 Sabremesh 2016-12-06
Effectively, yes. There was a notable lack of legal documentation, commensurate with a child trafficking organisation, not a legal adoption agency.
Children have individual rights protected by the state, and they aren't possessions that can be gifted by their "parents" to strangers, let alone sold on.
1 psyboar 2016-12-06
Would be very interesting to hear the story from the side of their parents.
I can see that it's very shady - but if the parents wanted them to leave, a poor family has few other options. In that case the charges effectively being dropped seems reasonable to me.
On the other hand it could have been kidnapping, plain and simple. In which case, Clinton's involvement in the charges being dropped directly implicates her in the abduction of children.
5 Sabremesh 2016-12-06
Laura Silsby was found guilty. She was released early following a personal intervention to the Haitian authorities by Hillary Clinton. You have to ask yourself why Hillary would step in to assist a convicted child trafficker, and then give her a job.
-1 psyboar 2016-12-06
That's not correct - Silsby and Co were arrested on child trafficking charges and then Clinton stepped in and got the others released and Silsbys charges reduced to 'arranging irregular travel' and she was found guilty of that.
In my opinion the only real justification of that would be if the parents and children wanted to leave the county.If not, it's child trafficking.
I would not be surprised at all if it was trafficking and Clinton knew it - we know she got that rapist reduced charges too, many years ago, that kind of shady shit is right up her street.
4 AssNasty 2016-12-06
Silsbys lawyer in Haiti was a child trafficker. He's currently in jail in the US.
1 jim653 2016-12-06
Jorge Puello, was not Silsby's lawyer. He was reported to be acting as a legal adviser to the detainees, but it sounds like he was also a con-man and was using the situation to try to extract money from the detainees’ families.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Isn't it equally possible that Silsby and Co thought they were doing the right thing and didn't get state approval/relied on Haitians to bring them children who they thought were orphans?
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Nope I'm not justifying... she was part of a religious program that's stated goal was to rescue children. Usually the simplest explanation is the correct explanation. Did Silsby and others intend to rescue children as stated or did they participate in a vast conspiracy attempt to kidnap children to provide them to a large child smuggling network?
1 Sabremesh 2016-12-06
The simplest explanation, bearing in mind the complete absence of legal documentation for the international transit of these children, is that they were being trafficked. You're a lawyer, you say?
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
That is untrue. The Org did have approval by another State, the DR I believe to transport children. According to the Wikipedia that has been referenced in this thread the Org was operating under the direction of Haitian officials and thought that they were rescuing orphans not wrongfully rescuing children with parents.
1 Sabremesh 2016-12-06
And how does that negate the fact, or mitigate in any way, that the crime of attempted child abduction was committed in Haiti?
You honestly think a legitimate adoption agency would try to move children across borders without legal documentation? Your attempt to justify this extremely suspicious episode is frankly, disturbing.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Being convicted of Attempted child abduction does not necessarily mean that the convicted actors attempted to take children with ill intent. From what I have read Silsby and Co thought they had approval to remove orphans from a country during a state of emergency.
I could take my child across state lines to flee from his abusive mother but if the mother decides to report it to the authorities by state law I could be charged with kidnap. Does that make me a kidnapper or am I someone trying to do the right thing?
I'm sure this is not the first time a Christian missionary group has went into a third world country trying to do good and ended up pissing off state officials.
I'm not justifying or condoning Silsbys actions, I just need more evidence to support the claim that Silsbys intended take children and provide them to pedophiles.
Questions unanswered:
Did Silsby have a relationship with Clinton prior to Clinton's intervention in the case?
Did Silsby associate with any known pedophiles?
Has Silsby carried out missions in other countries where children have been abducted or reported missing?
Why would Silsby go through the trouble to get state approval from Haiti and the DR for child addiction? Doesn't that bring more attention to her actions? I'm sure it would not be too difficult to abscond unnoticed with children after a natural disaster like the Haitian earthquake.
0 jasdevism 2016-12-06
Using occam's razor for human behaviour is as useless as using social darwinism. Don't fall into that trap. I'm laughing my ass off reading all these comments with pizzagaters but am seeing posts like yours mirroring their pattern.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
And my pattern is...?
0 jasdevism 2016-12-06
sounding exactly like the 'gaters. Apologies if you do intend to, it is your right and privilege.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
What the hell are you talking about?
6 PleadingtheYiff 2016-12-06
You realize that Hillary has broken a large number of laws, and will not be prosecuted under the current administration due to corruption right? She blatantly violated the law with her email server and Clinton Foundation bribery/Pay to Play. Do you seriously think she would be brought to task for breaking protocol? Wikileaks literally released emails where her legal counsel/advisors were openly discussing the fact that the State Department was helping to keep certain emails of hers from the Senate Oversight Committee.
This isn't a black and white legal issue due to corruption which has subverted the integrity of the law. Publicizing this information is the best bet we have to ensure something gets done about it down the road.
And Silsby formed a charity which was meant to build an orphanage which was never followed through on. Her lawyer was later himself convicted of human trafficking. She's dirty and blatantly guilty. I'm pretty convinced you either haven't read up on the case at all or are being incredibly disingenuous about it based on your response.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
As far as other Clinton's criminality I am sure she should be indicted for something.
I don't understand why you would immediately jump to a pedophile ring. Silsby and others had clearance from one state government to rescue refugees. They thought they had clearance from Haiti and thought the people they were working with were providing them with orphans. How does this translate to these people are providing children to the podestas?
2 PleadingtheYiff 2016-12-06
I didn't jump to conclusions about a pedophile ring, I've only ever pointed out that the Clintons have a pretty weird way of associating with sex offenders. Others have done made those jumps.
Silsby stole those kids from families, they weren't even orphans. The parents were lied to and told the kids would be returned to visit, and weren't informed that they'd be leaving the country. And her lawyer was subsequently convicted of human trafficking as well. That doesn't raise the possibility in your mind that there might have possibly been a criminal conspiracy? She wasn't acting above board on this.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
It definitely is a possibility I don't rule anything out but I just need more proof. Who knows maybe there will be a smoking gun but as of now there is not one.
We need to know more about Silsby before drawing any conclusions.
Has she done this before?
Did she know Clintons before Haiti?
Did she associate with any known pedophiles?
What approval did she have to rescue children from Haitian officials?
Further, why attempt to go through the state approval process if you are going to abduct children? Doesn't that draw unnecessary attention?
1 PleadingtheYiff 2016-12-06
Of course, there will likely not be a smoking gun revealed until January at the very earliest when the administration changes.
Ironically, yes she did do this before. She tried to take 40 children out of the country prior to her arrest and was told not to do this without proper permits. This email shows she was driving around Haiti with a bus, snatching kids off the street:
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/3741
In regards to the other questions, I have not looked into that and would have to do further research.
Lots of companies went through the state approval process to violate the law and engage in corruption. Getting the veneer of state approval is important if you are going to have a proper cover story so that questions are not asked. Just look at the long paper trail of donations which were made to the Clintons from companies who immediately received economic exemptions upon giving money. The State Department was staffed at top levels with people who were either Clinton cronies or were still actually employed at the Clinton Foundation simultaneously which is also blatantly illegal.
Clinton was stupid and never thought she was going to be caught for this stuff. Otherwise she wouldn't have been keeping her emails on an unsecured personal server in the first place. She just assumed she wasn't going to get burned for this.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
The email you linked does not show what you allege. Did you mean to link it?
1 PleadingtheYiff 2016-12-06
Ah crap, did I link the wrong one? Now I can't even remember where I got it from, sorry. I'll try to find it and post it here.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
The email you linked just talks about the organization and their stated goals, says nothing about snatching kids up off the street.
1 jim653 2016-12-06
Have you found that email? I'm interested in seeing the evidence for this too. Thanks.
1 TheMadBonger 2016-12-06
The clinton foundation showed the most evidence of human trafficking. And suspicions of arms dealings and selling american secrets (not proven yet in the public eye) Wish we really had the rest of those emails.
HERE is a list of evidence with sources, put together in a easy to digest and professional manner. Please I know reddit is great and all but Voat has this sticky now where all our best finds will be put into.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1463959
Do not get stuck into relying on only 1 website for information about this. As any of the chans, voat, reddit, or really any place where "intelligent" conversation can lead to more finds and documented "coincidences".
2 dabulls113 2016-12-06
And by the most evidence of human trafficking you mean what?
The list your references makes a ton of assumptions to reach a predetermined conclusion. Take the "code" for example. Podesta is an avid cook and it would not be unusual for him to speak about food and cooking. why would a group of pedophiles talk in a code that is readily identified by the FBI as code. Wouldn't it make more sense to speak in code not associated with pedophilia?
4 ghost_of_stonetear 2016-12-06
Really? Thos is the argument the shills have stooped to? "If it's true, prosecute her yourself!"
Absolutely retarded.
1 JamesColesPardon 2016-12-06
Rule 10 warning, buddy. Eyes on the sidebar.
Sidebar's eyes are on you.
1 ghost_of_stonetear 2016-12-06
Oh noooo, that sux.
Listen man, if someone comes here and says "if it's true just prosecute them yourself" you can be sure they aren't contributing a thing to the community.
1 JamesColesPardon 2016-12-06
If someone says something like that, we both know what they are hear doing.
The best course of action is to Downvote & Move On.
Do not engage.
That's what I do.
1 ghost_of_stonetear 2016-12-06
I downvoted them and called them out and you tried to tell me you were watching me like some big brother bullshit. If you need to ban me for that do what you gotta do.
1 JamesColesPardon 2016-12-06
I'll ban you if you continue to break the rules of the sub.
You do what you gotta do.
And of course we're always watching. What else is it do you think I do here?
1 ghost_of_stonetear 2016-12-06
Right, it was just the way you said it like some threat lol. Kinda silly.
1 JamesColesPardon 2016-12-06
Well, it was.
1 ghost_of_stonetear 2016-12-06
Lol, k. A ban isn't worth much but whatever sheriff.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
I'm saying that if she deviated from protocol she could be charged with it, but to say she's part cast child smuggling ring without a whole lot of proof is disingenuous.
Stop calling ppl shills it adds nothing to discourse.
2 leila23 2016-12-06
Or that a Christian missionary has been doing something Christian missionaries have done for years: trying to save "savages" by inserting doctrine because they think it's helping.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
This is the most likely scenario.
24 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Skeptical is good, but you've got to realize that the kids cannot fend for themselves. Even the slightest chance that this shit might be real is despicable to ignore. And we are far beyond 'slight chance' at this point.
3 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You've got issues
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
No because your arrogant self righteousness is really out of place here.
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
Are you in an echo chamber of lies talking to yourself?
-5 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Show me the smoking gun.
12 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Hi, user, I see you are copying and pasting that comment across pizzagate discussions, almost like you have an agenda..
You missed the part where I said "slightest chance", not "smoking gun".
But whatever might help you sleep at night.
6 kosif 2016-12-06
No, he's saying that if you had any solid evidence, you'd provide it. He's also saying that it is literally impossible to convince you otherwise. He's also saying that if you're the one making the outrageous claim, you're the one that needs to provide evidence.
4 dabulls113 2016-12-06
There's the slightest chance earth gets struck by a meteor right now should be try to do something about it? Again, I've asked users many times for hard direct evidence that could be used by the AG or a prosecutor to indict. If you have anything that you think fits this standard please send it my way, would like to look at it.
4 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Indict? We aren't pretending to have a smoking gun that will put someone in prison. All pizzagate researches want is for someone to look into this without discrediting it as a wild conspiracy theory. I don't know where you got the idea that people on /r/conspiracy expect to replace the judicial process.
A proper investigation into pizzagate, based on all that has been unearthed already, could determine whether there are any 'smoking guns' you're so in need of. Until that happens, nothing is black and white. It's just silly to approach this issue that way.
3 dabulls113 2016-12-06
I guess you think out justice system has a silly approach then.
Look into it all you want. I'm interested in hard direct evidence. If you find anything I'd love to take a look at it.
3 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Good grief. Please tell me you're not religious.
0 dabulls113 2016-12-06
I don't know what this means.
0 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
It's okay
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
"Our justice system" has flaws, are you suggesting otherwise?
6 kosif 2016-12-06
It's better than a pitchfork mob.
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
Of course!
2 kosif 2016-12-06
Then you have to see that this shit has nearly devolved into a bunch of people taking justice into their own hands. Shit, one person has already to decided to take justice upon themselves and go to the goddamn place with a gun.
If you people genuinely think this is a true thing, stop acting like fucking weirdos and work withing the framework of law and logic.
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
I'm just saying that clearly our modern justice system is not able to work out a solution for the whole scandal. If it was, we wouldn't have to create stuff like /v/pizzagate and do researches on our own.
I'm definitely not saying justice is to be done with a gun, i just disagree with /u/dabullus113 who is so in need of a hard direct evidence for the scandal to even be real in the first place.
2 kosif 2016-12-06
Because he's asking for what ANY reasonable person would ask for. Evidence. Not conjecture based on things that you think might be right because an anonymous person put something on the internet.
YOU need to take responsibility for the unhinged people that you set off with baseless conjecture. People dying because of some whacked out evidence free bullshit you posted online is completely unacceptable.
Christ, if you people were even remotely responsible and really wanted to expose whatever your weird crusade of the month is, you'd figure out why the hell everyone thinks you're whack jobs, address those concerns, then proceed in a logical, peaceful and reasonable manner.
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
https://i.sli.mg/lwgIgH.jpg
You don't always need a hard direct proof to close cases, let alone beginning a proper investigation. No one is saying "we're definitely governed by pedos", we just want an investigations out of clear, undeniably "weird" e-mails.
Remember that /r/pizzagate was shutdown; remember that reddit admins are not impartial; remember that the media is owned by just a handful of corporations.
3 kosif 2016-12-06
Yes you do, and you satisfy the first point with the second point. Pizzagate was shut down (like every other subreddit that has been shut down) because shit on the internet started to interfere with real life. In this particular case, it's life threatening.
No they're not impartial. And I don't blame them. They have no need to be. He was receiving hundreds of messages calling him a pedophile, threatening him, and generally harassing him. Also, there's a difference between the idea of free speech and the right to free speech.
You guys have thing hang up about "how you're being censored". It's not someone trying to stop you from discussing whatever, it's because you guys travel from place to place breaking rules. If you were serious about trying to get public attention on this, you'd stop acting like abrasive weirdos. Do you honest to god think the general public would ignore you if you had legitimate evidence that something like this was actually happening?
Also, try using the image hosting platform that wasn't made to slur a religion. That might help your credibility.
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
First of all thanks for discussing this in the first place, many leave their arguments after the first reply.
You should probably take a look at this. No one needed a hard proof to persecute Assange nor Iraq (oh btw), just to make a few "important" examples.
And no, it's not inherently life threatening. Nobody here is trying to harm potential criminals, it's just a guy (it could still be a false flag OP for all we know) with a really hard life.
Conspiracy theorists are by definition weirdos, and not for the right reasons; luckily there aren't that many "paranoid" ones here, just healthy questioning. Either way, labeling is always wrong a priori.
As i previously said, the media is controlled by an extremely restrict group of privates: i do think we wouldn't be listened (this is just a taste), it's not that hard to control "our kind of stuff", they have all the excuses in the world.
The credibility factor varies based on the reader's mindset: if you wanted to ignore all the labels you related to that specific site (i don't know the site, nor anything about your accusations, i just googled something real quick and that came up) you could have concentrated on the content, which i'm sure we can all agree, is what counts.
1 kosif 2016-12-06
No. I can go make some random blog or imgur post that accuses whoever of whatever. The source absolutely matters. If I went into a conservative site citing nothing but huffington post, what do you think would happen to my argument? People would slap it down for being biased. Slimgur was created as a direct reaction to Imgur banning racist, sexist and dangerous images.
Also, Persecute and prosecute are two completely different things. Prosecuting Assange would be done by a recognized court of law, using evidence from both sides.
Right there you just said you just said that you were willing to close (prosecute) a case based on an investigation that you admit isn't proper.
You're disregarding the first actual action that is provable in this entire thing because it doesn't agree with what you want it to say. A man walked into this pizza parlor with a rifle and fired a round. However, you refuse to take any sort of responsibility for this, because you think that everything that has ever happened is a false flag.
You are creating very, very, very dangerous people. Nobody cares what weird shit you cook up on the internet. But once you start threatening daycares, threatening shooting victims, accusing the wrong people of a bombing, shooting up a fucking pizza parlor or harassing shooting victim's families.
THAT is the sort of bullshit you're brewing here. You have a responsibility to act like adults while you are "investigating" this stupid shit.
But, I'm sure those are all false flags, right?
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
I wasn't talking about sources, i was talking about credibility. The environment in which you read information should not influence your rational sense over the actual content. The source always matters, but when you link to a picture (on any site dedicated for that) you're hoping your interlocutor is going to valuate the picture itself. The picture i linked has links on it, those are all the source you need. In fact, you should have doubts even if you just "took a walk" on wikileaks.
Ah, i apologize. The word "persecute" is what you would call a "false friend" in my native language. Prosecute, i meant prosecute.
Huh? Nono i believe Assange has no reason at all to be prosecuted, there's no case to begin with. Tell you what, Assange (who we're not hearing anything from since October) should win the nobel prize imo...
What i'm saying is that thanks to the USA Patrioct Act the US government is free to detain anyone who is only remotely suspected to be outlaw. No hard proof needed there see? Also, can we agree that US's behavior towards the middle east is the one of a bully? An illegal, criminal behavior, in fact.
I don't make propaganda in this scandal, i'm just interested, and i believe someone is trying to keep a secret about it. National interest secrets make no sense at all really...
I'm not responsible for the action of a madman (and don't make me go into the determinism concept here). Again: some people are ignorant enough to threaten of violent things, others just want answers. Not to be labeled again and again and again.
Why are you implying so called "free thinkers" tend to label everything as false flags? All i said is that we can't exclude that the shooting was a FFOP. You're certainly not one, nor is most of those who disagree with "us" (whatever "us" is; you have to understand people are varied, we're not a cohesive group who all think the same way in here).
This is the blind labeling i'm talking about, it's subconscious and something it's always good to be aware of.
1 kosif 2016-12-06
Fair enough. Excellent English BTW.
Well, what is it? Do we go off wild accusations and hang people in the town square or do we go through the established legal channels and give them a fair trial?
They want to try him for rape in Switzerland. Using an established court system.
Well, then you need to realize who your compatriots are in this sub. This is apparently completely ok to some members. You have a duty to consider and try to prevent shit like that and the guy shooting things up if you're discussing these things.
I have yet to see ANY major event in history not called a false flag and wildly upvoted here. That's part of why it's almost impossible to argue with conspiracy theorists. It's either
or
or being called a shill.
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1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
Thanks :3
Assange's case is imbued in plenty of disinformation.
The charge for espionage is punished with either life sentence or death penalty, so what you call a "fair" trial would be an unlawful punishment. All Assange did was journalism, the real one, and yet the US is scared of him for some reason, surely they don't have secrets to hide right?
Also...
There are tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists (in fact some could argue they are artificially inserted in discussions just to make sane theories seem stupid), it's undeniable, but this sub does not represent them.
I had never heard of these theories about Sandy Hook, and i would certainly think twice before giving it relevance, but people must understand how easily truth can be bent (just to take a few examples).
But it makes sense see? It's because most (recent) historical events are artificial that they become relevant. Again, there are hella exaggerations, and researched events are not that many, but i think the difference here is in mindsets: it wouldn't make sense without FFOPs.
9/11 subject is pretty insistently mentioned, but it's because it's a great example of all i said earlier: lies, excuses and FFOPs coverage. All it takes is a rational mind, a tiiiny bit of interest and a tiiiny bit of will. Try this and let me know if you disagree.
1 kosif 2016-12-06
I'm certainly not qualified to say whether someone should be charged with espionage. That level of law is WAY the fuck out of my league. I have really ambivalent feelings about that type of law (including Chelsea Manning).
However, my main interest isn't in the whole Intel game. I want to know about the rape accusations. If he's innocent, good. Justice was served. If he's guilty, good. Justice was served. However, there is absolutely no way I'm going to believe he's some fountain of truth (as I once did) due to his actions during the election.
Remember when I said
You just told me you are absolutely willing to call an opposing opinion a shill.
You just said that most of this shit wouldn't make sense unless they are shills. And then you go on to reference the grandmother of them all, 9/11/
You just outright told me that you refuse to even acknowledge that shitty things might be done by crazy fucking assholes. You refuse to even accept that that any of these things could be done by crazy assholes. Except for where you admitted:
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
He's not guilty until proven so, but as i said this doesn't really matter because if Assange ever left the embassy he would be extradited to the US and probably killed.
Although i think both Clinton and Trump were disasters, i must acknowledge that Assange was the man who brought Trump to victory. I honestly think noone would have voted for Hillary if they were fully informed on her: Wikileaks has only reported the facts.
Sure i would, but only if i thought my interlocutor is such. Are you trying to say shills don't exist?
Nope i said that a world where FFOPs happen makes way more sense than a world without them. It just completes the puzzles of a mad existence. We know they happened, why wouldn't they do it again.
Listen, 9/11 was an inside job. If there's anything at all i would hold on to it's that. I believe the 5 minutes video i linked was enough to raise some doubts, but then again you're always free to disagree, i'd just like a reason.
I didn't! I said we cannot exclude the possibility a priori: it would be irrational and dangerous.
I realize this discussion might start to become annoying, but from what i've gathered the difference is in mindset: you tend to exclude conspiracies to happen in the first place, despite the fact that a super short research would demonstrate the countrary.
I don't see myself being wrong here, i'm sorry.
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
(oh but we're supposed to believe this with no proofs)
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1 kosif 2016-12-06
That's. The. Point.
You are completely willing to disregard the work of multiple government agencies, most of whom are the most powerful intelligence apparatuses on earth. But you're absolutely willing to trust random weird ass people (a lot of whom believe the earth is flat, fluoride is some evil conspiracy, and that Jews control the world) on youtube and and this site.
I'm not even remotely sure how you managed to come up with this conspiracy. Nearest I can seem to find is that you took an old abbreviation that is years old from 4chan, and then somehow linked it to a pizza place that was mentioned in an email from someone you didn't like.
You somehow decided that this place was a a front for a child sex slave ring, then went looking for evidence that supported your view, disregarding anything that said otherwise. When you think the ENTIRE world is wrong and you're the only one who knows the truth, there's no way to convince you otherwise.
1 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
Do you realize that what CIA is forwarding is a conspiracy theory? And it's a tinfoil hat kinda theory. I mean we're talking 0 proofs, and yet the US MSM is already bringing it in TV (also, the post got 5 gold donations!).
Sure the CIA is powerful... but that's my point to being with!
To say that flat earthers, ecc are "our people" is back to that labeling i was talking about. Distinct between good conspiracies and bad ones. Either way, to say that fluoride is dangerous is a fact, it's just that it also has plus sides when it comes to teeth health, so we keep it in water (and i'm fairly ok with that). It's also not arguable to say that many powerful people are jews (George Soros comes to mind...), but that's not a conspiracy theory, nor something we should care about.
Hold on a minute: i didn't come up with it, nor i actively support it. All i say is that the way it's been disregarded and ignored by the public is ludicrous. There is enough "weird stuff" to at least open a proper investigation.
NINJAEDIT: I thought i answered you on your last response, i guess the mex got lost while routing. I feel like the discussion has changed now and i don't feel like rewriting it, but lemme know if you'd like me to.
RE-EDIT: nvm i did, it just doesn't appear in this context for some reason: https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5gqoqa/rconspiracy_has_been_infiltrated_by_shills_to_an/dazsjjn/
2 dabulls113 2016-12-06
That's fair, I'm all for investigation. personally I am just eager to see what others consider the best evidence.
2 GuardOfInsanity 2016-12-06
And rightly so! Skepticism is always a respectable position.
1 kosif 2016-12-06
That's the point. We'd be absolutely fucked if skepticism was looked down on.
This place is doing it in an irresponsible manner. People are going to get hurt. If you seriously want the truth, you'd make sure that nobody went off half cocked and harassed or hurt someone.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Nope...
1 Zig_Zagged 2016-12-06
Just report him for spam and move on. Stay frosty.
-2 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Yeah, my agenda is determining, at my leisure, whether any of you researchers over multiple platforms have found direct evidence which links he alleged parties to the alleged acts.
2 Sabremesh 2016-12-06
You're not cross-examining and nobody is obliged to engage with you if they don't want. We're trying to get to the truth here, not win a legal argument.
However, if you want to make a constructive, balanced post (ie not simply assuming the viewpoint of a defence attorney) explaining why Pizzagate is not "real", or why the Podesta emails are not evidence of criminality, the mods will consider stickying it.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
1 riskoooo 2016-12-06
It's a discussion about a fucking conspiracy. Why would it have a 'smoking gun'? Is there a smoking gun in the death of MLK? JFK? Hunter S Thompson? Is there one for 9/11? Syrian chemical weapons attacks? The rigged primaries? USS Cole? Flight MH370?
Why are you banging on about smoking guns? Unless you have video footage of a criminal committing a crime you build a case of evidence. Sit back and watch it build rather than spouting bollocks about needing hard evidence of something that would be vehemently covered up.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Showing Direct evidence is how you prove things. Until you can show direct evidence of what you say happened you have nothing.
I've been watching this build since the inception of the theory and nothing significant has been uncovered to definitively show what is being alleged. Too many assumptions and logical jumps for me to believe.
1 riskoooo 2016-12-06
No-one is trying to prove anything. People are investigating possibilities and accruing evidence.
Ironic for someone accusing others of logical gymnastics. You'd make a shit detective.
Again with the smoking guns. I give up.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
No one is trying to prove a vast conspiracy? Then what the fuck is everyone doing?
Detectives and prosecutors look for direct evidence linking a party to a crime for indictment and convictions that's how things work...
It's all circumstantial and loosely connected through crazy assumptions.
0 dabulls113 2016-12-06
What in your opinion is the best piece of evidence to support Pizzagate?
0 riskoooo 2016-12-06
It's disingenuous to attempt to isolate a single piece of circumstantial evidence so you can refute it. You know as well as I do that this conspiracy theory relies on a mountain of evidence that has clout only when considered as an inconceivable number of damning coincidences that are being threaded together as the Internet investigates.
In other words:
Gr8 b8 m8.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
A Mountain of evidence with tenuous connections and reaching assumptions. You refute a piece of evidence because they are all seemingly connected... this could be one of the most bogus conspiracy theories I have looked at.
Prove me wrong.
0 dabulls113 2016-12-06
then point me to the best pieces of evidence.
12 djklbd 2016-12-06
Have you continued to do your own independent research into pizzagate? We are willing to help. PM me if you want to go over anything together. I assure you, the tens of thousands of people on this board are onto something, we aren't just doing this for shits and giggles my friend.
-2 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Show me the smoking gun.
5 djklbd 2016-12-06
Did you even bother researching any of this yourself? When police and FBI are investigating a serial killer, do they just give up the investigaton because of a lack of a smoking gun? This is how these investigations start, man. Do you not know how this works?
0 dabulls113 2016-12-06
I understand it perfectly I am an attorney.
8 djklbd 2016-12-06
We can all go home now guys, he's an attorney..
3 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Before you go send me what you think is the absolute most damning evidence which directly links the alleged parties involved with the alleged acts.
4 djklbd 2016-12-06
Sure thing. Would you like me to do your taxes for you as well? Maybe some chores around the house? Why don't you actually put in a shred of effort towards researching pizzagate yourself before you pretend to be the master of all knowledge. Start doing some basic research, and then come back to us.
Good luck.
1 dabulls113 2016-12-06
I've looked at it a decent amount and honestly have found nothing more than circumstantial evidence. If you and others are so convinced that Pizzagate is real it shouldn't be too difficult to produce a link or something that proves it somewhat definitively.
0 fdajj 2016-12-06
Yah? Well I have schizophrenia and I am telling you that you are wrong.
5 dabulls113 2016-12-06
I'm wrong about understanding how the investigation process works?
-18 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
18 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You know what isn't sane? Ignoring even the slightest chance that these people are harming kids.
It really is that simple.
7 fdajj 2016-12-06
Would it be worth it if you ruined people's lives with paedophile accusations? Not saying that is the case but is that a risk you are willing to hypothetically take?
3 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
No not at all, and it's reaally simple, if they're not pedos they're invited to address the accusations instead of just attacking the theorists.
7 fdajj 2016-12-06
Do you believe it is the burden of those being accused of conspiracy theories to publicly acknowledge and refute each and every one of them?
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
No definitely not, I'm just saying it'd be an easy way for them to stop the accusations.
I'd sure do it.
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Yeah, I'm sure if Podesta released a statement saying he's not a pedophile, you guys would just stop. There is nothing anyone could say or do that would convince you, anyways.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
First thing Podesta needs to do is address this https://www.google.ca/search?site=&source=hp&q=podesta+mccann&oq=podesta+mccann&gs_l=hp.3...584.3602.0.3762.17.14.1.2.3.0.179.1098.10j3.13.0....0...1c.1.64.hp..1.11.727.0..0j0i131k1j0i10k1j0i22i30k1.px-_6Hjoyc0
It's the reason suspect sketches are made.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Those are two different sketches of the same person, according to Scotland Yard.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Odd, isn't it
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Not really, no. People are saying it's the Podesta brothers.
Here's some more people the sketch looks like: http://m.imgur.com/XIgyANQ
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lmaooo no they don't
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
The two sketches look like two different people, but are the same person; how do you explain this? Are the Podestas actually one person?
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
2 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
They are one person.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/14/british-detectives-efits-madeleine-mccann-suspect
0 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Here's some other people the sketch looks like:
https://www.celebslike.me/match?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcelebslikeme.blob.core.windows.net%2Fimage20161206%2F6677d25a-cf96-4d1e-a720-d5496a59338a&x=0.49673205000000004&y=0.5390071
I guess Lorne Michaels needs to come out and address why the sketch looks like him?
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
That looks about 100x more like John Podesta than any of those other people. It's almost too accurate to believe.
But perhaps the fact that they are 2 brothers might narrow the chances a little, in your humble view?
Lol
Or the fact that the wikileaks podesta emails begin the very day after the mccann disappearance?
(coincidental timing, of course)
These aren't smoking guns, but they're sure easy to address
0 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
They are two different sketches of the same person. So is is Tony or John, which one?
That is meaningless. There was a deadly tornado on May 4th, 2007; I suppose that is also related to Podesta.
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lmao alone those are meaningless, together they raise questions
So you're completely hellbent on debunking the "meaningless" and "wild" theory that is pizzagate. Nice..
Saying shit like that makes you look even more ignorant.
Thanks for the convo though. Good luck with your research.
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
So which one is it, Tony or John?
You're hellbent on promoting it and calling skeptics shills.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Why don't you just ask wikipedia?
Lol
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
No, I'm curious which person you think abducted her. It's one person.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Because wikipedia said so or because you speak from experience?
3 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
"Speak from experience"
What is this even supposed to imply?
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Well you claim to know more than the police do
2 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
YOU are the one claiming to know more than the police do.
2 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
No, because the police said it's the same person.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/14/british-detectives-efits-madeleine-mccann-suspect
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You literally linked me to an article that explains how police "significantly changed the timeline and the accepted version of events", to use as proof that what they suspect now is guaranteed as fact.
Do you really need me to explain to you that maybe there's a chance that witnesses described two different people?
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Yes, I generally would believe LE version of events over some guy on the internet.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
the sketch resembles two different people who are the podesta bros
Oh wait no it doesn't because I'm some guy on the internet
you kill me :)
1 virusporn 2016-12-06
The sketches were the result of two different efit mockups of a single person. At no point has anyone from scotland yard suggested that it was two different people. So why do you think it is?
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lmao
1 virusporn 2016-12-06
Still waiting...
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
(don't) hold your breath
2 virusporn 2016-12-06
So your response is fingers in ears "lalalala I didn't hear you!"
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
So you want to know why 2 sketches that look like 2 different people look like 2 different people?
2 virusporn 2016-12-06
I want to know why you think that two efits from two witnesses that Scotland Yard state are the same person are two different people. What evidence do you have to suggest otherwise? These are efits, based on witness description of someone seen at the resort. Witness description and efit is imperfect hence the variances. Whats more they are generic white guy. They even look like the detective speaking to the guardian in the video in the linked article.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
I don't think they're two different people, I think they look like two different people.
2 virusporn 2016-12-06
You realise that the witnesses who did the efit were a husband and wife who saw the person at the same time? Does that change your mind on this?
2 fdajj 2016-12-06
Personally I would not. I would be too disgusted to.
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lol... I think I'd be more disgusted with the allegations against me.
But then again I don't make numerous references to pedophilia in my everyday life.
4 fdajj 2016-12-06
Which numerous references?
I don't know their lives, but if someone accused me of pedophilia I would think they were insane and would ignore them unless they were threatening me. Arguing with crazy is a lost cause.
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Good grief why are you even commenting here if you have not looked into the theory whatsoever?
1 fdajj 2016-12-06
I haven't found anything concrete. Mostly speculation (some completely off the wall) but nothing that holds any weight.
2 rotj 2016-12-06
If you think conspiracy theories are easy to stop, you should examine how that worked out for Tablo.
Tablo: I graduated from Stanford.
Accusers: No you didn't. You're a big fat phony.
Tablo: Here are these Stanford alumni and professors saying I graduated from Stanford.
Accusers: Those people are being paid off.
Tablo: Here is my diploma and transcript.
Accusers: Those are forgeries.
Tablo: Here's a statement from the Stanford registrar stating they are real.
Accusers: The transcript and diploma are real but they're for someone else with your exact same name and you're an identity thief.
If the Comet Ping Pong owner disproves specific allegations, pizzagaters are going to shift their goalposts.
1 ShiftlessElement 2016-12-06
The issue seems to be that no one is claiming to have evidence that stands on its own. "Evidence" I've seen involves phrases in e-mails, comments on photos, posters, graffiti, artwork, and other things that, taken together, supposedly point towards something.
Are those involved supposed to address every individual claim? If they provide explanations, would the "investigators" believe them?
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
It would be really easy to prove that horrendous shit doesn't happen at the comet pizza facility. They don't have to address every photo, they're welcome to address the theory as a whole.
2 ShiftlessElement 2016-12-06
They have said they are innocent, repeatedly. How would they demonstrate something "doesn't happen"? Would a tour of the premises suffice?
0 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Bingo
8 djklbd 2016-12-06
You have no power here..
-9 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
8 George_Tenet 2016-12-06
U sound like you need to seek professional help
2 bro_before_ho 2016-12-06
Someone should go over there and check it out or something!
1 psychonator 2016-12-06
My question is: where are the victims? I hear a lot about code words, symbols, political connections, etc. But where their are no victims, there's no crime committed.
2 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Maybe they are processed and turned into pepperoni to use at the pizza places. 😬
26 [deleted] 2016-12-06
People are laughing at how ridiculous it is and somehow that counts as being scared? K m8.
0 BlatantConservative 2016-12-06
These guys want to be powerful, but at the end of the day they're onky at a keyboard.
9 trapper29 2016-12-06
live footage of police standoff at comet taken by resident of nearby apartment: https://www.facebook.com/fmfaruq/videos/10105646215979761/
7 Dragofireheart 2016-12-06
Fucking shills.
Shills everywhere. They will never give up.
2 ChactFecker 2016-12-06
Disagree with me? Must be a shill.
2 Dragofireheart 2016-12-06
It's not even that. You could agree with a shill and they'd still find a way to shill you.
Fucking annoying cunts.
4 Epitaeph 2016-12-06
Here's the one thing I really don't get in this whole Pizzagate thing. Why a pizza joint? Between stocking and maintaining a restaurant, customers, high turnover with employees, and dealing with the ever regular health inspector. Why a pizza joint? Why not a Industrial park building, or an old brick mill thats been rehabed, or a warehouse. Something not in the public eye. So please explain to me why it has to be a pizza joint.
2 DickWoodReddit 2016-12-06
idk why dont you ask podesta and alif?
2 FootballJedi 2016-12-06
Some say the italian food references are a nod to the vatican, where people suspect this all stems from. A stretch for sure, but if we have learned anything its that these freaks love thier symbolism.
1 PM_ME_YOUR_PLATES 2016-12-06
Well duh, because child porn and cheese pizza both abbreviate to CP.
1 Epitaeph 2016-12-06
Catholic priest as well.
2 thesarl 2016-12-06
Well said.
1 TheMadBonger 2016-12-06
Sticky from voat pizzagate site with full sourced links and updated info
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1463959
This is where you can show newcomers to go to start learning about pizza gate.
BTW compet ping pong Shooter's father is a convicted pedophile and such other revelations in the thread. https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1465222 --comet ping pong father is convicted pedophile
2 PsychoNovak 2016-12-06
So he shot it up to protect children from our people like his father.
Doesn't mean it's a pedo ring, just means he believes your all's shit about it being one.
1 TheMadBonger 2016-12-06
Nothing that guy did is justified, vigilante justice is not accepted or pushed at all as a possible solution. People who try to associate this with what we are actually trying to do have not done their research themselves on what pizzagate is trying to accomplish.
Perhaps the new influx of people seeing this stuff is making the community look bad, coming into the message boards with nothing to add to the conversation and the questions they have answered if they actually looked through the information available.
Unfortunately the regular joe doesn't have the time to debunk and investigate every claim made on these message boards and they take lack of a differing opinion as something that is widely accepted.
When really these boards are about posting your findings and people taking that into account while doing THEIR OWN research on top of it. This is a public message board, i'm sorry but noone is going to drop a sex video here even if it proved everything true! You have to do your own research to truly know for yourself.
1 PsychoNovak 2016-12-06
Is there any proof other than the sketches of "Podesta" that obviously aren't Podesta and his buddy and the instagram picture of a girl taped down by her wrists and smiling? Oh and the stupid chanspeak and "symbology" that anyone can fucking make up. Can't forget that.
Like... Please link me with proof that actually shows that a child sex ring is going on in the basement of a building that doesn't even have a basement?
All your evidence is circumstantial at best but you all treat it as stone cold fact and it emboldens people like this guy to take a gun into a pizza shop and demand to see the whole building. You're fucking dangerous and really need to think about what you all are doing to innocents all because you're bored at home and aren't able to change anything in your life so you hope to keyboard warrior your way. You're worse than a vigilante. You're the pawns being manipulated by the real "bad" guys and really doing some damage.
You can't fucking defend this guy. He did more damage to children in that restaraunt than anyone else probably ever had in there.
Step off the fucking Internet and remember these are real people's lives you're making a drama about.
1 whyd_you_kill_doakes 2016-12-06
Did you not grow up in a post 9/11 world? They still cut you off air and try to ruin your name by coming out against the official 9/11 story. That was fought against much more than pizzagate. Pizzagate has brought it upon themselves.
0 scaredshtlessintx 2016-12-06
The 4 whores on CNN just now saying how people who are likely to believe in conspiracy theories like pizzagate also are the kind to become violent against the government.....so question I have is....occupy Wall Street...Dakota pipeline...bundy ranch..etc....WHEN are the masses going to stand?
0 bbakks 2016-12-06
Okay so let me give you an honest answer based on my perspective. First let me state that I have been following pizzagate right from the beginning and have mocked you all many times. I am also not being paid by or working for anyone to debunk or discredit this (but hey that's exactly what a shill would say, right?).
I have been on Reddit for 8 years, this account for 5 years. I have visited /r/conspiracy off and on plenty of times over the years for some good reading (and sometimes laughs) and then I leave. But pizzagate in particular bugs me enough where I feel I have to respond to it.
There are several reasons for this:
Of all the posts I have read, they all come down to the initial fact that some emails with no context didn't make sense to you. The leap from that to a conspiracy is expected here; that's what makes a conspiracy theory. But then you build on that as if it were a fact and use that to make the most feeble connections. In fact, the whole motivation of /r/pizzagate was to find yet one more undiscovered connection which was validated by other readers there. By doing this, you have brought in and hurt so many innocent people. You all justify it by saying you are helping investigate pedophiles. The thing is most of you don't know the first thing about investigations and if anything you are harming any real investigation (if any) that might occur. With an investigation you take solid evidence and build a narrative. You people are doing it backwards--taking a narrative and trying to find anything you can to support it.
But think about the harm you have done to so many people. Those children who have had their faces posted all over the internet on those evidence infographics (i.e., crazy walls) will be there forever. Whenever someone googles them this is what will show up. These children will always be known as the pizzagate victims. Don't you see how messed up that is? And so many businesses will forever be tarnished by these accusations. This will harm the owners, their families, children, employees, and their families. It's one thing to come up with stuff about political and public figures, but that's just not cool to completely destroy lives because an email about a napkin seemed strange.
But the thing that gets me the most is how, at least initially, there was so much brigading and abusing sites like Reddit. I mean come on, you people bombarded Yelp with accusations to the point they had to step in and put a halt to it. And any chance you get you people bring it up in comments, even if it has nothing to do with the topic. And when someone questions you, you respond that if we would just look at the evidence we would be convinced too.
But actually some of us have looked at ALL the evidence and simply don't make the same conclusions to you. That seems to be so incomprehensible to you all that the only possible explanation is that we are being paid or are otherwise involved in covering it up. In reality, there are people who simply disagree with you and disapprove of the damage you are causing. That's why /r/pizzage was shut down and why youtube videos get taken down, etc. You are hurting people with your conspiracy theories.
Now I am saying you but I don't really mean you all in particular. This subreddit has done a fair job of keeping things in line and I commend you all for it. But seriously, do you really believe that there is this massive army of shills trying to shut you down to protect an underground pedophile ring? Or is the more likely explanation that we simply don't agree with you? Are you really surprised that people call you crazy when you say that this is the biggest conspiracy in history that involves hundreds or even thousands of people, including most of the government and media? Or is the most likely explanation that you do sound a little crazy when you say that?
Seriously dude, people aren't freaking out because you are exposing a well-connected pedophile ring. People are shocked at how far so many people have taken this and who are completely convinced of it's truth and will absolutely not be persuaded otherwise.
But hey, if everyone wasn't in on it, it wouldn't be much of a conspiracy, would it?
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Ahaha okay, thanks for sharing your convoluted mind, keep enjoying your ignorance
Tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles?
0 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
Additional evidence is required to claim you someone is a child rapist and a pedophile. It is dangerous and stupid to claim such things without proof. Witch.Hunt. Not Freaking Out. Annoyed at morons like you who don't need evidence to believe in some code words a troll of 4chan made up. Fuck off
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Tell me more about your defense of suspected pedophiles?
0 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
DON'T NEED TO PROVE WHEN YOU ARE THE ONES CLAIMING INSANE THINGS BASED ON CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, Suspected Pedophile /u/inbetweentime. See how it works? Now you're suspected. I'll ask again, cause i responded to lots of people, what's the proof of the code? I thought David Seaman said it was "well-known pedophile code" ...if it's so well-known where's the proof. I am actively asking in every possible place I can and nobody knows the answer. I'll help: IT ISN'T PEDOPHILE CODE, NOR IS THERE PROOF THOSE WORDS ARE CODE
-1 nickiter 2016-12-06
I'm not a shill, Pizzagate is just stupid and dangerous. Sometimes when a lot of people tell you you're wrong it's actually not a sign that you're extra right.
3 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
How about when all of those 'people' suddenly pipe up in the course of 24 hours, while for the previous 6 weeks people had actually been assessing things rationally? gtfo.
4 nickiter 2016-12-06
Because it's hitting the news and /r/all. Why is this so hard to understand? I'm on this thread because I saw it on all, it's not some mysterious coincidence.
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Oh so you're literally here arguing with people who have been researching for a month and half, because you just saw it on /r/all and know nothing about it. Fucking terrific, welcome. Yes all those people must be idiots, what were they thinking?
1 nickiter 2016-12-06
I looked at the evidence, and yeah, some of it makes the posters look pretty dumb. "Oh look his shirt says I <3 L'enfants! EXPLAIN THAT?!" There's a neighborhood in DC called L'enfants. Like, if your level of analysis doesn't catch that kind of thing instantly, I'm not sure it counts as analysis.
"This guy likes gross pedo art!" By a popular artist with a lot of fans.
I haven't seen a single thing in all of the "evidence" that looks like something you could prosecute.
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Of course, some of it is genuinely dumb and some of it is probably planted to make us look dumb. If you think we're all passionate about this all because of a freaking t-shirt and some art, and you want to argue with us, that's your problem but your uninformed opinion is doing zero good.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lol BTW... you are the severe minority. Don't be delusional.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Because anyone who has looked at the theory for longer than 45 minutes isn't being an arrogant POS about it.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Lmao
-7 digitalbitch 2016-12-06
I never seen such a bullshit story get the morons so excited. White terrorism is real.
12 jupiter-marino 2016-12-06
This story has nothing at all to do with race.
-5 digitalbitch 2016-12-06
A white terrorist attacked a pizza place the other day.
13 SithKain 2016-12-06
The dude was an actor..
3 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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0 digitalbitch 2016-12-06
The fuck? Dylan Roof you idiot.
3 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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0 digitalbitch 2016-12-06
Delusional?
http://time.com/3934980/right-wing-extremists-white-terrorism-islamist-jihadi-dangerous/
You have completely lost the plot here.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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1 digitalbitch 2016-12-06
Not in the America idiot.
1 jupiter-marino 2016-12-06
Link to an investigation that proves he's a "white terrorist."
-23 keybagger 2016-12-06
I'm against it because someone brought a gun into a pizza place yesterday and fired off two rounds. And it's probably going to get this subreddit banned.
16 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
So wait... you're saying you're opposed to the investigation of people who might potentially have horrendously sick shit going on with kids, because somebody brought a gun into a pizza place? Or am I misunderstanding
14 djklbd 2016-12-06
So which parts of the investigation did you find faulty? Can you explain to me each piece of evidence you found to be lacking, and WHY you found it to be lacking? Do you propose another potential explaination for all of this?
No, because you're thinking in a very close minded way. Nobody on this forum promoted violence of any sort. We are all non partisan and we don't condone the actions of the lone individual from yesterday's "incident". Infact, it is likely that this "shooting" was a false flag used to demonize our investigation and make it look like a violent witchunt.
-6 colordrops 2016-12-06
The evidence is 100% circumstantial. And some of it has been clearly doctored, such as the edited comedian video at comet pizza. Lastly there is a large group of people with vested interest in pushing this story.
13 djklbd 2016-12-06
Could you provide a few more examples of this "doctored" evidence you mention?
If you came to the conclusion that pizzagate is a farce, then you must have tirelessly and endlessly did research and familiarized yourself with the basic rudimentary aspects of it to come to that conclusion, correct?
No, you didn't. You took the "fake news" narrative at face value like anyone else who didn't take 30 mins to dig into any of it. If we were speaking in person, I could easily expose you as being full of shit in minutes, because you don't even have a basic rudimentary understanding of the investigation, and therefore your opinion holds no merit. Either that, or you're CTR, and this post is about all the shills on this sub in the first place, so you have no power here...
3 colordrops 2016-12-06
I have looked at all the evidence posted to this sub, and so far it has been 100% circumstantial. I dare you to post something that is not. You go on about doing your research, but then you go on to label me a CTR shill without looking through my comment history to see that I'm pretty much the opposite. Why should I trust you when you immediately fail at the most basic critical thinking?
1 SomeSuperMegaNiceGuy 2016-12-06
Why should we earn your trust on an open investigation? If you aren't willing to accept the fact its an OPEN investigation that at the very least has uncovered evidence of a huge money laundering operation and possibly lead to (another) elite pedophile ring. Nobody here is trying to sell you anything, you are acting like its our job to convince you. Its not, nobody here is doing this for money, they are doing it because the evidence speaks for itself. Youre not entitled to anything, if you dont beleive the evidence, thats fine, but fuck off, nobody gives a fuck about youre inability to piece simple pieces of evidence together.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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1 SovereignMan 2016-12-06
Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.
-1 Autocoprophage 2016-12-06
I'm sorry, the guy you're responding to is off his meds or something. Please don't judge the rest of us by how he posts.
1 djklbd 2016-12-06
Looks like more people agree with the "crazy off the meds" guy than you...
8 martinskrtel 2016-12-06
there's a far bigger group trying to hide it
-7 keybagger 2016-12-06
There are no victims. There would be victims by now besides people that make pizza. Go ahead and call the police and file a report with your name on it if you want to continue to push the point that you've found something worth pursuing. I'm definitely not stopping you. The police take the kind of accusations you're making super serious, I promise you.
16 lordrothschild 2016-12-06
Did it occur to you that the victims might be dead by now?
And if some of them are alive: Who would believe them? What incentive would they have to talk?
Kids have stepped forward in the past, claiming to be victims of satanic sexual abuse. But they're being laughed at by adult "skeptics". Their stories are being dismissed. No one takes them seriously.
People have even claimed to be victims of sex abuse at the hands of Hillary and Bill.
7 djklbd 2016-12-06
Oh absolutely, and they should. However, since law enforcement hasn't been willing to investigate this themselves (likely because there are some extremely powerful people implicated here), WE have taken it upon ourselves to do THEIR jobs. We are quietly and patiently investigating this stuff on our own without the help of law enforcement, and we've done a pretty damn good job.
You wouldn't discourage someone from doing an independent investigation into a potential pedophilia ring, would you? Especially one that could potentially involve some of your "public servants"?
If you wanna talk more, PM me sometime man. I'm more than willing to go over some things with you and maybe I can open you up to this stuff a little bit.
-1 parachronic 2016-12-06
don't PM this guy. I PM'd him a few hours back after seeing a similar post like this and he not so subtly tried to invite me to participate in violent shit. Guy is pretending to be a Pizzagate investigator and leading people into legal trouble. Tag him in RES and stay the fuck away from him. Just a heads up for everyone
10 Fistlegs 2016-12-06
Wow. You need to get fired that was way too obvious.
6 djklbd 2016-12-06
Lol, this is the first time I've seen a shill actually promote a blatant lie. Guys are desperate now, eh?
Look at my post history, it's filled with promotion of anti-violence for this cause. We can't promote a violent mentality on this sub or we will get banned.
Let the record show that user "parachronic" is blatant CTR.
EDIT: Somebody document this with a screenshot, this is a perfect example of CTR we could use this as an example for a portfolio or something.
4 dcsauce 2016-12-06
Check his post history. He only has one post. Now go to the last comment and it proves that this account is being controlled by a non regular user
173 Romek_himself 2016-12-06
More like infiltrated by shills which wanna tell us how its the "biggest conspiracy in histoy" and how we should all care about.
Since this US voting bullshit this sub here is spammed with shit. Its insane. People here are here because they can think by themself. We dont need others to think for us. And thats why i can not take this "pizzagate" drama serious here in this sub. 90% of all postings is bullshit - it feels like the MSM tries to plant a story here.
I really wish the moderators would make one thread for Pizzagate and move all this postings, so we can have back our sub.
so in one line - "dont tell me how i have to think about"
105 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
Exactly. This place went to shit with the election, donald trump and his retard posse infiltrated hard. Was hoping it would clear up after the election but nope.
23 djklbd 2016-12-06
Donald Trump? Who mentioned Trump? This sub is totally non-partisan. Stop trying to politicize everything...
We need to remain neutral to reach the largest audience possible.
96 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
It hasn't been neutral. Ever. It's always been very, very antisemitic, alt right based. That's why people discredit it. That, and because it's all a bunch of bullshit.
42 djklbd 2016-12-06
Thats not true at all. I've been visiting this sub for 4 years and I've never seen anybody promote any anti-semitism and it's not "alt-right" based, most people here reject the two party system entirely.
I guess you wouldn't know that though, because I dug through your post history you've only even posted here once in the last two months. I'm sure you rarely even visit this sub, who are you to make a claim that this is a anti-semetic/conservative based group?
Good luck with whatever the hell you're trying to prove..
50 reddit_aol_com 2016-12-06
People bring up "the jews" in ever other thread. It is ridiculous.
26 djklbd 2016-12-06
Ironically, I don't think the word "Jew" was mentioned once on this thread until you just said it.
33 thats_not_kosher 2016-12-06
I didn't see anyone get raped today so I guess that doesn't exist.
2 ProgrammingPants 2016-12-06
You make a sound point.
24 magnora7 2016-12-06
There are tons of racist people trying to make this sub look bad by confusing the Rothschild Zionism issue with "Jews" in general, muddying the waters
edit: Including some of the subreddit moderators: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5gs2l2/i_do_not_like_the_sidebar_picture_because_it/
9 magnora7 2016-12-06
Which is exactly what the Rothschilds Zionists want, to blend in with a larger population that is historically a victim, that way they can always play the victim card as they conquer others
2 autopornbot 2016-12-06
On point.
It's like saying that attacking Bush over 9/11 is being anti-Christian because Bush was a vocal Christian and the US is primarily Christian. The KKK is a Christian group. I can confidently say that they are a conspiracy of evil people and not be condemning of Christianity.
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
You get it.
1 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
They aren't trying to make this sub look bad- they just are this sub.
14 djklbd 2016-12-06
You're full of shit. You seem dedicated toward pushing an anti-jewish vibe here for some reason...
10 magnora7 2016-12-06
He also seems dedicated to trying to make the sub look bad... while saying there's no one trying to do that
0 Bianfuxia 2016-12-06
Maybe because you're crybabies and it's funny to watch
10 magnora7 2016-12-06
Nope, there's definitely people working on this sub to make it look bad. There's even entire subreddits devoted to making this subreddit look bad
1 FootballJedi 2016-12-06
Yeah, these are not the friendly bagel inventing jews that we are friends with and live next door, there is a difference.
1 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
You'd have to be deluisonal to not see that shit.
1 AllianzeGratius 2016-12-06
Complete BS.
1 sh3rog 2016-12-06
lolwut?
1 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
Yet in 6 months Ive yet to see this anti semitism you speak of.
27 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
I've been lurking on reddit for years. Back when Gasthekikes was still here ya know? And yeah, sorry, but there is a lot of antisemitism in here. Sorry. Jews control the media shit is everywhere in here. And it's all just a bunch of baseless bullshit accusations with no evidence at all to back it up. Guess that's what a conspiracy is though.
5 Funkliford 2016-12-06
I'm guessing you forgot the time Hitler was in the sidebar for a month.
0 theHomieGrunt 2016-12-06
Racism is so prominent on this sub that theres a sub that documents the widespread examples. /r/isrconspiracyracist/
6 magnora7 2016-12-06
This subreddit didn't have a right leaning until the 2016 election, when all the Trump people were basically forced here by being banned everywhere else. I still think reddit did that intentionally, destroying this community by forcing mass immigration of bad people, same thing they did to voat
10 autopornbot 2016-12-06
Most all conspiracy forums were pretty neutral back in the 90's when I first got interested in conspiracy theories. It was mostly stuff about JFK, NSA spying (which is one that conspiracy theorists nailed), and some overlap with aliens.
When Bush Jr. became president, the community got mildly left-leaning. But when Obama won, and Alex Jones got really popular a bunch of alt-right survivalist types joined in. But even then, they were usually focused on the shit that went down in Waco with the Branch Davidians in the 80's, and things like that. Understandable and credible theories.
With T_D and this election, we've been overrun with idiocy. And it's extremely right-leaning.
There have always been conspiracy theorists who are basically level-headed skeptics who rightly distrust the government, and the true believers who cry 'lizard people' at every glitch in their tv. But lately there seem to be way more of the 2nd type.
But it seems like that happens with everything good once it becomes popular. Add in credible stuff like CTR which just bolsters their beliefs, and here we are.
1 Bianfuxia 2016-12-06
No it hasn't, you're a moron
0 AllianzeGratius 2016-12-06
Lots of Zionist hate, no Jew or Arab hate. Been lurking here some time. Get a grip ya idiot.
Semite ˈsiːmʌɪt,ˈsɛm-/ noun a member of any of the peoples who speak or spoke a Semitic language, including in particular the Jews and Arabs.
Edit:a word
0 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
i wonder who is upvoting this nonsense.
If someone feels this way why take the time to come here and post?
0 FootballJedi 2016-12-06
Shill alert!
-1 NorthBlizzard 2016-12-06
How could it always be alt right based when the alt right only just became a buzzword this election cycle?
1 Chicagodivemaster 2016-12-06
Are you serious?
1 demos74dx 2016-12-06
This place went to shit when Reddit forced all of the subs they dislike into here.
Don't blame the people for going where their voice can be heard, blame Reddit for taking the actions they did to subvert communities.
Soon, Reddit will shut this place down and then you and I will be looking for a place to be heard along with them. Emphasize with them (because you're next).
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
We have been talking about this shit for years, this isn't new, we just have a fuck ton of evidence now.
-1 NorthBlizzard 2016-12-06
Donald Trump funded CTR?!
Huh, TIL
8 derpderp3200 2016-12-06
Exactly. So much goddamn bullshit has been pushed by Trumpsters during the past year that it's hard to take anything like this seriously. And calling everyone who isn't in with it shills?
What a load of crock.
8 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Oh yeah, would be great if there was like a separate sub for it or something, hey?
6 NoNameForSteve 2016-12-06
There was an entire subreddit dedicated to it.
So generally speaking..... why delete it/ban it, now that the new nifty filter is in place? There's some super fucked up subreddits already that won't get banned the same way
13 Peregrim 2016-12-06
The sub was banned to avoid another Boston bombing incident where Reddit detectives fucked up real bad. It was also banned before they implemented the filters.
0 thesarl 2016-12-06
Oh you mean like the time Craft agents were spotted?
Wouldn't want evidence of a false flag on the net, huh?
12 moparornocar 2016-12-06
I think they mean when they ID'd a dead kid as one of the shooters and got his name plastered all over MSM.
6 ScoopSuave 2016-12-06
And harassed his family
4 andr50 2016-12-06
I said it yesterday, this whole thing is a 'discredit and distract' operation. It's being planted and spread to make it look like the free thinkers are going to be lumped into this group of idiots, and won't be listened to when real shit goes down because we'll all be associated with this obviously false conspiracy.
3 Peregrim 2016-12-06
I've been a long time reader over 8 years and 3 accounts, and this sub used to be a pretty great read now and then and lead to some pretty interesting discussion and counterarguments. But if you even question the amount of evidence with pizzagate people immediately jump on you, call you a shill and act like you're perpetuating child trafficking since for some reason we have to believe this speculation with no concrete evidence at all, there's evidence and some of it is okay but nothing concrete enough to warrant near this much spam and individual threads.
0 thesarl 2016-12-06
https://archive.fo/MrsGu
1 rave2020 2016-12-06
Hey fuck tard this is conspiracy sub... Where Bigfoot and ET rom the land if you can't stand a conspiracy that could actually be true about how power corrupts ... Then fuck off shill this is not a place for you.
1 mcfatten 2016-12-06
I wish we could take all this bullshit and just give them a separate subreddit where they can pursue this bullshit by themselves. Oh wait...
1 randommofo 2016-12-06
SHILL
1 onethingis 2016-12-06
You can't spam shit with more shit. Or you shouldn't, anyway.
0 Deathoftheages 2016-12-06
You realize the pizzagate stuff started before the election right?
132 witler 2016-12-06
Now you guys are turning on your own kind. This is what happens people.
You go so deep in the rabbit hole you turn on your own people because your paranoia literally switches off any critical thinking faculties left in some corner of your brain.
Pizzagate is the modern day crusade of the anti intellectuals. It has now officially enabled the fringe portions of the political party to target their political opponents to use "won't sumboddy pls think of the CH-CH-CHILDRENNNN!!!"excuse to possibly shame or worse, actually physically harm people.
May God have mercy on your soul.
35 creq 2016-12-06
I don't think it is their own kind per se. I think the guy shooting up the Pizza place drew a lot of attention into this sub and many of these these onlookers are either very frustrated or here to troll. At this point I'm not sure what would convince people that this was just some stupid rumor that was started on 4chan (probably for entertainment) and that Commet Pizza is nothing more than a place that sells pizza.
24 Eumemicist 2016-12-06
Wow dude! This is really reasonable! I see you're a moderator. Dude what is going on with this sub? I just posted something about Russian propaganda and got swarmed by people who were rejecting something that is an actual conspiracy theory. IS there a right and wrong kind of conspiracy to talk about to get along with people in this sub?
43 creq 2016-12-06
I think part of what is happening on a more of a daily basis may have to do with the increase in crossover from /r/the_donald. An increase in users who are more susceptible to believing in wild things with zero backing behind them despite readily accessible mountains of evidence to the contrary. I'm not saying this hasn't existed before here. For a while there were flat earthers, but they were generally harmless and there weren't very many. This is different though.
48 duckraul2 2016-12-06
So what you're saying is when T_D sends it's people, they aren't sending their best?
34 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
We need to deport them back to /r/the_donald and 4chan and then build a wall.
12 soul_shakedown_party 2016-12-06
It's like Lord of the Flies, man.
If they are all so sure, maybe they should call the police? The FBI? Each individual that says they are sure, should do that.
2 autopornbot 2016-12-06
Or simply back up their claims with the "mountains of evidence" they claim to totally have?
1 Bianfuxia 2016-12-06
Too late, we're runnin your country
6 moparornocar 2016-12-06
I think you had a typo, your first N should be an I.
21 creq 2016-12-06
No I'm saying things like truth and facts didn't matter to that sub in general during the election and they still don't matter now.
14 duckraul2 2016-12-06
Relax, I'm with you, I was just making a parody of an oft quoted trump line. I fully understand how little accuracy matters to that sub, they to this day front page the Robert Byrd kkk hoax picture from 2004. Straight up forwards from your crazy uncle.
17 Eumemicist 2016-12-06
Are you worried at all that the sub has been commandeered by users from the_donald? Because this sub is hermetically sealed. You can't point anyone to a real source because according to everyone on this sub, all of the real sources are part of a conspiracy. I'm not a conspiracy theorist. But no matter who you are or what you're talking about or what sub you're in, there should be a respect for logic and proper argumentation. You can't just dismiss something out of hand with no evidence. But it seems like that's what the people here do. I shared something about a new effort to investigate Russian propaganda and the top comment was something like, "is that you Podesta?" Just no desire for a healthy discourse with those who disagree with you.
16 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
It's because this sub has been flooded with morons lately
2 bukvalista 2016-12-06
Lately?
13 creq 2016-12-06
Different posts bring different different demographics out. I've seen trolls exploit the hell out of this to label this sub every which way. When you posted about Russian propaganda you pressed the hot button as far as users of the_donald were concerned. Not all posts attract this crowd. But one about Jews, mens rights, racial issues, and Russia will. On other posts not about hot topics, if this crowd is there at all they may blend in to some degree as not all conspiracies have and political learning to them.
-1 GoyBoyAdvanced 2016-12-06
Why are you talking to yourself. This was the most scripted conversation I've ever seen on Reddit. Sounds just like CNN.
16 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
fuck off
6 Eumemicist 2016-12-06
This gentleman has demonstrated my point. Feels no obligation whatsoever to raise evidence in support of his claim that this conversation is scripted.
What would it take to have a conversation where both parties just assume that they're talking to an informed, rational person with an opposing point of view? Even if they don't believe the opposing point of view, assuming the conversation is being had in good faith a prerequisite for a philosophically useful conversation. Because you want the best ideas to win out in the marketplace of ideas. So if you can falsify the strongest arguments, your arguments are better. Whereas if you attack the source of the arguments, that's ad hominem. You never get to the point of separating the true and false things that come out of your opponent's mouth because you've already dismissed your opponent out of hand.
So now I'm talking to GayBoyAdvanced. Let's try this exercise. What is your issue exactly with our conversation? Please use precise terms.
1 GoyBoyAdvanced 2016-12-06
Sorry I automatically assumed too many things after fighting with too many shills.
1 Eumemicist 2016-12-06
How do you know they are shills? I think avoiding calling people shills is a pretty good policy on reddit. It just really gets you nowhere. It's bad form.
11 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
Agree 100%. It's getting ridiculous here. Can't find any good information anymore because pizza nonsense is flooding out everything else.
2 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
The problem with many in the donald is they se pizzagate as a democrat thing and use pizzagate to push their rightwing agendas.
I support trump but many in that sub are hypocrites of epic proportions
0 autopornbot 2016-12-06
There is a sub on reddit that exists to be what this one completely fails to be. I don't want to link to it, because it will get overrun as well. But there is a place that focuses on actual conspiracies, wink wink.
11 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
It is 4chan 100%. I don't understand how all these people fall for it.
8 TheDeadManWalks 2016-12-06
The whole things predicated on the idea that old bureaucrats use the same slang as 4chan, I'm pretty sure nothing's gonna convince certain people to drop Pizzagate at this point. The guy who shot up Comet Pizza gave himself up to the police after searching the place and finding no evidence of secret tunnels, that's what it's gonna take to make the most die-hard followers think twice.
1 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
While Comet Pizza may just be a regular Pizza place there is very little doubt that there are major child pornography rings going on in Washington.
Internet focusing on Comet Pizza may be its big downfall because the MSM can push Fake news on that location. While at the same time knowing or having inclinations there are rings inside the highest levels of our government and corporate america
2 creq 2016-12-06
Maybe there is maybe there isn't. The only thing I know for sure is beating this dead horse isn't getting us anywhere.
1 Redchevron 2016-12-06
Lol, this dude said:
Meaning: He does not consider himself to be a part of this community.
Fueling the speculation that there is a large influx of non regular users keeping tabs on this sub.
Proof in the pudding.
6 Amos_Quito 2016-12-06
We can rest easy in your message that "CH-CH-CHILDRENNNN!!!" are not really HU-HU-MANNNN!!!
Why would SOME see things this way? I suppose it may be because children are innocent, but more importantly, they are IMPOTENT - unseen, unheard and unable to mount a defense - let alone pose a threat to those that routinely abuse and destroy them.
And may nature have "mercy" on your vacuum.
25 creq 2016-12-06
Well at any rate some dude with a gun did search the place and then surrendered when nothing was found .
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/pizzagate-gunman-surrendered-after-finding-no-evidence-fake-conspiracy-court-n692321
At first glace it seems hard to think that could have happened, but if that guy really was convinced there were children then who to say he wasn't just trying to be a hero.
Seems to me we can trace a lot of the issues lately back to some random 4chan post.
9 Amos_Quito 2016-12-06
Not surprising in any case, considering the amount of time that those accused would have had to tidy things up - since the story first broke... IF there were anything to "hide", you understand...
Indeed. Who's to say? A couple of weeks remodeling and scrubbing can cover a MULTITUDE of "sins".
And the MSM pronouncing him NOT GUILTY from day ONE certainly didn't hurt such efforts.
Seems to me we can trace a lot of these suspicions back to MANY "random" Clinton/Podesta emails.
"Hair on my pizza? Oh YUCK!"[EDITED SEE BELOW]Prefers prepubescents? Possibly.
Pedophiles are REAL. Their victims are REAL, and history has shown us that they tend to pervade the ELITE classes, and that they are PROTECTED by their peers - ostensibly because said peers are equally at risk.
Try shifting your motive focus from "perversion" to control via BLACKMAIL, and suddenly, it all becomes far more tenable.
EDIT: It was called to my attention that the "Hair on my pizza" quote referenced above is a fake and a forgery.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5glzva/for_those_that_question_whether_pizzagate_needs/dau5wfd/
Link to actual email here: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/40819
Thanks to /u/meatador for calling it out as such, and shame on the asshole who created the forgery.
Integrity is a quality that cannot be overrated.
29 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
Or more likely, doesn't like finding hair on a piece of pizza. Yes there are pedophiles and they are awful people who deserve the full brunt of the law. But talking about pizza does not make someone a pedophile!!
It's pure confirmation bias until I see some REAL EVIDENCE implicating these people!!
0 lunatickid 2016-12-06
These are literally the most powerful people on the Earth. Literally. There will never be any "real evidence" that goes public, unless there is a whistleblower.
People have died all around Clinton Foundation, strangely enough when trying to bring evidence into light. You can deny the connection between the deaths but you can't deny the deaths themselves.
Similar thing happened in Hampstead, where the entire village was complicit in conducting a pedo-ring involving 5 different elementary schools, teachers, politicians, polices, and other public figures. Guess what happened when this story started gaining traction? Children (key witnesses) were taken from the parents (still kept from the parents btw), while parents were accused of torturing their children to give false confessions. The case went cold real quick, real fast after psychiatrists confirmed sexual abuses on the children. The parents of these children are in exile and trying everything to get themselves heard and get their children back. Any "real evidence", or as the favorite talking point goes, "a real victim" who speaks out is immediately silenced.
3 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 Amos_Quito 2016-12-06
Well I'll be damned. Thank you for pointing that out.
I deplore dishonesty, and do my best to vet and authenticate anything I quote. I failed on that one.
Shame on the bastard who forged the quote. Totally uncalled for, especially given the volume of material that is authenticated and verifiable. I can only imagine that the forger's motive was an attempt to discredit the entire inquiry by "poisoning the well".
I'll edit my comment above to note the forgery - and call it out as such if I see it referenced by others.
Thanks again.
8 GoyBoyAdvanced 2016-12-06
That's the 5th Shill today I've seen write "think of the children." God dam, at least use different prompts so we won't get bored.
1 hippyflip28 2016-12-06
You say you're against shaming pedophiles? That sounds like you're pro-pedophile.
2 witler 2016-12-06
isn't it funny how questioning the paranoid narrative makes you accuse people you disagree with of heinous crimes?
What does that tell me? You actually want to believe in this conspiracy because the people you disagree with politically are harmed by it.
1 hippyflip28 2016-12-06
That would be true if (a) the irony of my statement was not lost on you (b) if I had a political affiliation to care about or an agenda to push (c) this had anything to do with politics besides for the fact that the people implemented happen to be politicians
0 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
36 witler 2016-12-06
Okay. Lets play along with your paranoia for a second. One guy falls for all that crazy shit the pizzagate people have been spreading everywhere. And that guy goes and "self investigate" this global conspiracy theory and shoots around.
Instead of playing praise for how "brave" he is, what do you people do? Double down even more! Suddenly, that guy shooting inside the pizza place is not "our"guy. He suddenly becomes "false flag" created by the liberals to discredit pizzagate. You see whats happening here? Rabbit hole that goes so deep you start to deny your own people because they took real action based on your paranoid falsehoods.
12 TheDeadManWalks 2016-12-06
Shows how loyal they are to their cause. I see posts on r/all every day about how the MSM should be reporting this and that there should be real-life repercussions. Now that it's happened, suddenly responsibility is nowhere to be found.
0 mrgrippa 2016-12-06
If he was a conspiracy he would have demanded to see the basement, he didn't.
12 George_Tenet 2016-12-06
Lol you don't know what conspiracy means. At all
3 mrgrippa 2016-12-06
Heh I left out a word should have been conspiracy theorist
1 George_Tenet 2016-12-06
Do u know who made the term popular?
0 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
I think pizzagate is real but agree that it takes an anti intellectual to make pizza gate a partisan issue. There is no doubt this cuts and likely covers both sides of the aisle.
-4 Surfdetective 2016-12-06
Hahahahah,exactly,pizza dorks.
110 patjohbra 2016-12-06
It's almost as if the number of people who oppose the claims is directly related to the ridiculousness of the claims
22 hibuddha 2016-12-06
And people brigading stupid-as-shit posts.
How does this have so many fucking upvotes? The title itself is hyperbolic garbage.
8 forsalebypwner 2016-12-06
I upvoted the post because I think the whole thing is funny. Then I upvote the reasonable comments cause it's even funnier to see people saying "THIS IS PROOF OF CTR". Can't wait to get my shill check in the mail.
7 hibuddha 2016-12-06
Yeah, CTR has become like the invisible hand of the communists here. As soon as someone starts talking logically, the McCarthyist scare tactics come out.
I saw someone jump straight to accusing someone of inciting violence at rallies yesterday. For having an opinion on Pizzagate. It's insane.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
That's a fucking joke. This sub is constantly brigaded by people from enoughtrumpspam SRS and other actual shills. The people upvoting this are the ones who actually frequent this sub.
2 hibuddha 2016-12-06
Lol bullshit. People upvote anti-Trump language because it's inflammatory and annoying.
There isn't some agenda against you, it's just easy to hate people who lack logic or a desire to discuss facts, or anything, civilly and without extreme bias.
3 silenteye 2016-12-06
Exactly. I tend to enjoy reading conspiracy theories and seeing if they seem credible, but this satanic pizza ritual stuff is American Horror Story material.
-1 magnora7 2016-12-06
Also the amount it's true, because ridiculous nonsense is ignored all the time. However this is not being ignored
22 yiliu 2016-12-06
It's a combination of the fact that it's amazingly ridiculous, dangerous, and also on the front page all the goddamn time. Usually the stuff from this sub that hits the front page is at least in the realm of possibility, and the crazier fringe stuff stays at the bottom where it belongs.
Now, you're regularly hitting the front page with a crazy house-of-cards theory, you're ruining lives, and now you've got a gunman showing up in DC. And you're surprised that you're attracting more attention than usual?
8 magnora7 2016-12-06
Literally everything Hillary did during the election was House of Cards, so I don't know why you think this is some big change of tone for the subreddit. If the MSM had just ignored this story, it would've gone away much more quickly, but now there's an international response and high-ranking people around the world are being arrested for pedophilia in other countries... I have a hard time thinking there's nothing here at all
2 yiliu 2016-12-06
I didn't mean HoC the TV show, I meant house of cards in that you've got a pile of lightweight facts that could be blown over by a light wind (or a moment's critical thought).
...If you literally believe every conspiracy theory about her.
This story has spread a lot farther, a lot faster than most conspiracy theories, because of the anti-Democrat hate, around the same time that fake news is in the real news.
3 leila23 2016-12-06
Add to the fact that the guy at the center is an outspoken, openly gay man who reads Butt Magazine, like every other fucking gay man who has ever existed in the world.
1 DickWoodReddit 2016-12-06
gunman is an actor look it up
3 yiliu 2016-12-06
You've got exactly as much evidence for this as you do for anything else.
2 DickWoodReddit 2016-12-06
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2625901/
this is the imdb actors page.. NEXT
7 yiliu 2016-12-06
Oh, you mean that a decade ago he had a credit as an extra. I assumed you meant that he was acting the other day. In fact, I'm sure that is what you meant, and you consider this to be proof. Ugh.
3 DickWoodReddit 2016-12-06
It's funny how you change the facts to make your position seem more real and discredit me. Mute(2011). Yea that's only 5 years ago. Logical fallacy found.
4 yiliu 2016-12-06
Ooh, you're right, missed that one. Welp, that must mean you're right and it's all a government conspiracy, I don't see any other possibility.
3 DickWoodReddit 2016-12-06
What do you not get about a hypothesis?
Also, you can't go back on that now and say it was an accident.
You obviously need this: Logical Fallacy Cheat Sheet
2 niakarad 2016-12-06
mute is a writing credit. the only acting credit he has is the extra one from 2009
3 DickWoodReddit 2016-12-06
7 years still isnt ten
2 niakarad 2016-12-06
What about his 5 second acting credit makes him more qualified to be a false flag crisis actor than someone without an easily googlable imdb credit? it's not like beloved character actress margo martindale went into comet pizza with a gun.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
He actually has acting credits in three movies. His dad also owns a production company and has written over 30 screenplays. But you wouldn't know that, bc you haven't done any research on it and you're just here to be an asshole/disrupt discussion.
4 niakarad 2016-12-06
No he doesn't. But you wouldn't know that, bc you haven't done any research on it. (is production assistant an actor now? how many speaking parts has he had?)
86 heihuquan 2016-12-06
This is true and they're out in such force and timing that it can't be anything other than organised and paid suppression teams much like CTR was. The desperation to control the narrative is astounding.
You better fight for what you believe in full force. If you allow this shit, it will be today it's Pizzagate and in the near future any other state-directed narrative they order protected.
87 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
Calling someone a CTR shill is literally the laziest argument. It doesn't address any relevant information. It is a pure ad hominem attack.
Who cares if it's a shill that you are arguing with? If the truth is on your side, prove it. Use your logic and reasoning. But don't be lazy and call anyone you disagree with a shill.
29 StaffSummarySheet 2016-12-06
CTR was a real thing. The fact that it's shills is not something to which the solution is to just keep on speaking truth and revealing evidence and using logic. The shills know we're right, and that's why they exist. They're part of a team, not out on a fact-finding mission. They will always twist the discussion to make some sort of fallacious or emotional appeal to prevent people from questioning the official narrative at all costs.
You shill.
73 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
It's OK to question the official narrative. Go ahead. It's your right. But don't expect that there won't be counterarguments. If you make a claim, you have to back it up. And don't assume that every who disagrees with you is from CTR.
4 StaffSummarySheet 2016-12-06
My problem isn't what you're saying. My problem is the things to which you respond this way.
I'm not talking about my post specifically because I didn't provide evidence in my post, but this subreddit is replete with evidence, documents, connections and unanswered questions that have unpalatable answers no matter what the actual answer turns out to be.
When you say, "I'm just saying I want to see some evidence," you're saying it in response to evidence. It's the slimy way the powers that be attack legitimate concerns.
If you say that, you're implanting in the mind of your readers that the evidence they thought the saw is actually not evidence. They doubt the evidence that just saw because they're probably somewhat skeptical already and following the crowd is very easy to do when someone says something that reinforces your comfort zone.
People's comfort zone in this scenario is that there is no pedophile conspiracy reaching right to the top of the upper echelons of leadership in America. When someone shows evidence of that, it feels bad to learn about. When you then say there's no evidence, people can sigh in relief that there was no evidence. People are very impressionable.
I wouldn't call you a shill if you attack the evidence. Look at the false flag news reports of the shooting at Comet Ping Pong, which were supposedly written earlier than the event. I honestly haven't looked too hard into that, but if I wanted to be an honest opponent of the notion that those news reports weren't written earlier than the event, then I would say, "The evidence is false because of this," or, "The evidence doesn't lead to those conclusions because of that." That's the non-slimy, non-shill way of arguing.
Your way is to look at the evidence and say, "We need to be reasonable here folks. I would be more than willing to believe pizzagate if there was only some evidence."
Conspiracies are real. There have been many proven conspiracies, and they should go to show that your gut reaction of "Come on. No one can really believe that many people would conspire to do THAT" is an untrustworthy feeling.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
17 soul_shakedown_party 2016-12-06
What did u/Cotecozonia say that was unreasonable?
1 DangerDotMike 2016-12-06
Probably forgot to change accounts and replied to himself agreeing with himself or some stupid shit. Hahaha.
-6 GoyBoyAdvanced 2016-12-06
Why not? There's a 50% chance they are.
31 yiliu 2016-12-06
Yes, there were probably at least some shills active on both sides through the election. But you guys and the_donald just dismiss anybody who disagrees with you as a shill--as your theories get more and more outlandish.
6 C__137 2016-12-06
There's many skeptics that have had questions about the validity of this case that haven't been called shills because they actually ask questions about the case. Theres been plenty of users on here that have attempted to discredit specific users claims not by proving that the evidence they have is false, but by blatantly lying about the users.
2 ghost_of_stonetear 2016-12-06
Is a real thing. They still exist and are working.
2 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
This is exactly the type of comment a shill would say.... /s
-1 TherealScrable 2016-12-06
If you want to waste your time, sure thing.
Hillbots and Russian Shills do not care about your time, they will simply post what they are paid for.
-6 heihuquan 2016-12-06
That's just your opinion which is meaningless to all but yourself. The crux of my contention is that this is an organised and paid campaign of harassment and control, most likely to have emanated from the same entity that is directing the new media offensive and agit-prop advancement of "Fake News".
14 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
What is your evidence that this is a paid campaign of harassment and control? You made the claim. Now back it up.
-6 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
22 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
Christ you're angry at someone who only asked you to provide some proof for a claim. You fucking piece of trash.
-7 djklbd 2016-12-06
You have no power here..
8 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
Let the ad hominem flow through you. Yes. Just what I was talking about.
-8 heihuquan 2016-12-06
I owe absolutely nothing to you. Troll someone else who gives a damn.
17 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
I take it you don't have any evidence then?
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
1 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
Asking you to provide evidence is trolling. Got it.
1 heihuquan 2016-12-06
Let's see, your history shows that you have a 6 month account and in the last 24 hours you've launched attack after attack on posts about Pizzagate. Anyone else care to take a look? That's why I don't owe any replies to disingenuous trolls with covert agendas.
1 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
Counterarguments are not attacks. This is not your safe space. All I do is ask you to provide evidence. That's not trolling. There are tons of people who also doubt pizzagate. You act like it's the established narrative and get angry when challenged. If you're going to make a claim, don't be surprised if someone asked to to back it up.
1 Sabremesh 2016-12-06
Rule 4/10.
-4 jupiter-marino 2016-12-06
The evidence lies before you. It's clear suppression. "Fake news" is a manifestation of the complete and utter failure of the political system to actually work for the people, as evidenced by the election and events that both preceded and followed it.
They don't give a shit about anything except control by division of the people and manufacturing reality for us. If Pizzagate is fake, freedom of speech and the press is taking a huge hit. If it's real, the result is the same. They win either way because they've initiated the process of subjugating the acquisition of knowledge and the concept of free thought.
I assume you'll respond by claiming the dangers of free thought by citing yesterday's "assault" on CPP carried out by an actor with an IMDB page that was on the fast track to jail time.
I hope you'll be able to enjoy being a prisoner in your own mind.
4 TheDeadManWalks 2016-12-06
And you wonder why no one takes r/conspiracy seriously...
61 yiliu 2016-12-06
You're getting lots of outsiders popping in because you're hitting /r/all on a regular basis. I used to see this sub about once a month or so--more often towards the end of the election, but that was basically just the_donald spilling over. Now it's every day, and it's always pizzagate.
6 nickiter 2016-12-06
You know this is a perfectly self reinforcing narrative, right?
People tell you you're right because you're right, or they tell you you're wrong because you're extra right. You plan to reject all disagreement. Can you see where that might prevent you from thinking clearly about the issue?
No one is being paid to dump on this stupid shitty theory. You have a persecution complex.
1 heihuquan 2016-12-06
Who cares about your valueless, agenda driven nonsense.
63 SooperModelsDotCom 2016-12-06
Every, and I mean every, MSM outlet is covering Pizzagate and they're all in lockstep as it being a "fake news conspiracy".
Strange how a conspiracy is getting the MSM's panties in a twist.
That's when you know this thing is real.
73 ramonycajones 2016-12-06
Or, a guy shooting inside a restaurant in DC due to something election-related was newsworthy. It's not mysterious.
10 djklbd 2016-12-06
Election related? Pizzagate has nothing to do with the election! lol!
Wow you don't even have a rudimentary understanding of the basics of pizzagate...Why should your opinion hold any merit?
90 ramonycajones 2016-12-06
Pizzagate came out of the hacked emails of a campaign chairman in this election. I can put it on an image file and draw red circles and arrows around it if you want.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
That's how it started, that's not all the evidence.
3 ramonycajones 2016-12-06
I didn't say it was, I just said it was election-related, which it is.
-2 djklbd 2016-12-06
Yea, we all know that buddy. But you're suggesting that the investigation is politically motivated. There are people from both parties who are implicated in this, do you understand that?
Get this man to a computer and teach him how to use google for Christ sake....
Educate yourself before you pretend to be all knowing and all wise.
-4 danimir 2016-12-06
Pizza gate started about a week after the election ended.
https://www.google.com/trends/explore?date=today%201-m&q=Pizzagate
-1 PaxCocaina 2016-12-06
Reeeeeeeetard
3 rickromo17 2016-12-06
Lol exactly this. Op to this comment thread is rather dense.
-1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
When you enoughtrumpspammer douchebags brigade this sub do you not realize how hypocritical you're being when you say Thedonald should be kicked off Reddit for it? By that standard, so should you, correct?
Anyways, troll on!
37 magnora7 2016-12-06
Like the term "fake news" didn't even exist until exactly when this pizzagate stuff started coming out. They didn't even use it for the election...
24 itzjamesftw 2016-12-06
How fucking dense are you? Not saying this isn't real, but there is still really no actual proof. So to claim "that's how you know this thing is real" is just insane.
0 NoNameForSteve 2016-12-06
Well instead of berating, why not post your definitive proof "how this is not actually happening"?
Others are digging for truth and doing work, the MSM has only said "this is false".
if the eyes see it and the ears hear it, the mind believes it
22 bukvalista 2016-12-06
Seems to me like most just decided pizzagate is the truth and are just looking for anything to validate it. The problem with r/conspiracy posters isn't that they're questioning, it's that they think they've got the answer before they've even begun.
8 silkchoad 2016-12-06
You, sir, just earned yourself a "Sane" tag.
1 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
the definition of conspiracy theory
16 itzjamesftw 2016-12-06
I live my life on a day to day basis. I am a busy dude. I have shit to do. Outside of my early AM Reddit routine, I don't sit digging through a conspiracy perpetrated by right-wing spammers/trollers/centipedes/etc based off of a few pictures and limited data. I've read up on this, there is some evidence that makes you think, but it's grasping at straws evidence in the end. I have an incredibly open mind to it, but there is nothing to say it's definitive, and when you get nut-jobs posting here (and firing rounds at the pizza place), you're starting to lose me. People are losing track of this conspiracy and just attacking the media again when the media is again, right. This is just fake news, because it got escalated before there was any proof at all. You don't go to court with limited evidence and hope to win. If you wanted anyone or the media to take this seriously, you should of gotten more proof than what you did. But you couldn't, because there likely isn't any.
some stupid fucking quote to make what I say sound important and correct
2 lunatickid 2016-12-06
Alright, let's see here.
First, "fake news" didn't hit the MSM and draw major attention until the day after pizzagate initially started (search google trends).
Second, it gets fucking suspicious when the MSM denies to basic research on the topic or, even worse, flat-out lie about it: look at BBC's comment on how Comet Pizza doesn't have a basement, but there is a recorded interview with the owner about storing sauces in the basement. Also, look at WaPo's article on Monica Petersen, a trafficking researcher who died recently under mysterious circumstances after investigating Clinton Foundation. There are clear evidence all around (FB posts from Monica herself and her friend) that Monica did indeed go to Haiti to research about Clinton Foundation and its connection to human trafficking, yet the author of that WaPo article intentionally leaves out the main parts of Monica's posts to lead the viewers on.
Third, the gunman at the pizza joint is suspected of being a false flag. The circumstances (how there is no video feed at all, no injuries, ultra-fast reaction from the police and the media, with the stories being written before the fucking thing started according to internal timestamps) are highly irregular.
Listen, I get you. I honestly thought this shit was just a hoax and started reading about it as a good joke. Then I remembered what happened in UK with high profile politician pedo-ring, and how everybody just forgot about it, without people involved punished. I'm also Korean, and something stranger than fiction, about as equally "conspiracy-y" as pizzagate, has happened and proven.
All you have to do is lose your faith in humanity, accept that there are evil fuckers wearing human masks, and just open up the possibility. There are so many uncanny coincidences, connections, and accidents around the whole pizzagate and Clinton Foundation for it to be just a pure coincidence.
7 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
Comet pizza doesn't have a basement, there's a depressed back room that is used for events/parties. I know people who have lived in that neighborhood for years and saw the foundation being poured, nothing under the floor but gravel. It's a 3 room building, kitchen, front room, back room. That idiot who shot up the place was looking for some sort of secret entrance, and wen't all through the building, it's an open floor plan building there's nowhere to hide something like that in there.
5 lunatickid 2016-12-06
So I have your word and a published interview of the owner of the joint specifying a "basement"... I wonder which one I'm going to chose to believe. Also, nothing under the floor but gravel? There is an instagram picture of a hole leading to an underground tunnel, as well as shitton of evidence of numerous tunnels existing under the pizza place.
8 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
What evidence do you have that the 'hole' is even at the restaurant?
0 lunatickid 2016-12-06
Aaand a conclusive evidence that you actually haven't done your research and are just here with misinformation, intentionally or not. (there was a instagram photo of the hole)
9 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
I haven't seen the photo, or a link to the source. On the other hand, I know people who live in the area and eat there.
0 lunatickid 2016-12-06
Well basement used to store things and maaaaybe do some wierd pedo/satanic stuff might not be the easiest to find, you know.
1 NoNameForSteve 2016-12-06
I can see that this can be upsetting to some people. Hey, if you're busy, there's no need to explain yourself to anyone. You do you, we're gonna still all do what we all do, too.
That evidence has to get built from the ground up!
There was no hostility in anything from me so far. I hope your day gets better, though!
3 itzjamesftw 2016-12-06
My day is great outside of being a bit tired. I don't have issues with people digging for evidence to piece something together. If this proves to be true then it will be one of the biggest conspiracies in history. But at this very moment, things like "that's how you know this is real" is very juvenile to say. I wish you all well in your search, but don't perpetuate information as truth until you know it is.
1 NoNameForSteve 2016-12-06
Now we're talking!
Yes this has the potential to be an explosive part of our current history. The conspiracy behind this is incredible. I have not gotten involved in anything outside of reading the on and off things here, but it sure makes for great thought.
This has always been a great subreddit to just "what if?"
Take care, I wish you well in your endeavours as also.
0 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
If you don't spend your time digging through "right wing conspiracies" then why are you here? What brings you to this sub?
2 itzjamesftw 2016-12-06
The recent traction of this conspiracy has moved this sub into /r/all. Things are naturally interesting and I never said I wasn't interested by this. Human nature makes us express our opinions on things.
2 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
So then why should we care? You don't agree with it and are misinformed about it, so why bother? Why do you have an opinion on something you don't care about? I don't care about celebrities and thus have no opinion on them and don't comment about them in their subs.
2 itzjamesftw 2016-12-06
Don't have to.
This is an insane statement. You realize how the world would work if this was how it was? Also, misinformed? I know the information you do.
Literally never said I didn't care. Even said I was interested.
Reddit is a free and open platform, come on dude.
2 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
You mean how the world would work if people actually knew what they were talking about? God forbid! And you know incorrect things. You called pizzagate a right wing theory, which shows the false information. There's nothing right wing about it.
Dude, don't take things out of context. I said I don't comment on their subs.
0 itzjamesftw 2016-12-06
Your perspective shows that, but the comments in this sub says otherwise. I understand the grand scheme is non-partisan, but this all stemmed off of right-wing digging through emails to find anything to be used against HRC. I shouldn't have to clarify that I don't condone any of the things suggested in this conspiracy, and I hope that if definite proof is found that it will come to a proper light and be taken care of. Just right now the same kind of stuff that would leak from the_donald is leaking into here. There is a wide range of people tracking this conspiracy for different reasons. I'm not going to act like I know your reasoning, I just hope it is the right one. But to tell someone they can't comment in a sub (which I have been active in before if you want to dig my history) is just dumb. I'm aware of the story. I've read almost everything posted here on it. As I said I am interested and intrigued. But I am also allowed to be a countering voice when I see things going off the rails a bit. I'm not the enemy here. Neither are you. Read the comments in this thread. Calling everyone who disagrees a Shill just for disagreeing. It's just all so beaten to death. People are allowed to ask questions and doubt things, which is exactly the whole point to a conspiracy sub. Y'all once said Sandy Hook was an inside job though. Some things go too far. I don't know why you took what I said so personally.
2 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
Not necessarily, that's a false assumption. A lot of people (like me!) were digging through the e-mail despite being not right wing. One does not have to have a political motivation in order to be curious. And again with the_donald, the_donald is irrelevant to this. It did not start there, it was not promoted there until LONG after it was huge, and it's already been banned from there. It is just not part of the equation and there's no reason to shoehorn it in.
I never said you couldn't, I asked if you don't like conspiracies than why are you here? I didn't say you couldn't comment.
I never said you were. I asked a question based off of your statement that you don't really like conspiracies. Now, you're claiming to be interested, but that isn't what you said to begin with.
Many are. Correct the Record is not a theory, it's a fact and it's a fact that they target reddit.
Sure can, I'd love to see you do that, but that's not what you are doing.
Why do people keep bringing up Sandy Hook? This is like the 5th post I've seen bringing it up. Sandy Hook has absolutely nothing to do with it.
I didn't, chill with your ego.
0 one2-3 2016-12-06
One of the weirder and more creepier things in this pizza gate thing is the police composite sketch of the kidnappers of Madeleine McCann. It does look a lot like the podesta brothers, and they were supposedly very close to the scene of the crime in may 2007 at a Portugal vacation house or something. If police really do use those sketches to identify potential suspects and it's true the podesta brothers were in Portugal around the time of the crime, the police should definitely be asking those two a few questions. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwothzUVQAAAFmD.jpg
1 itzjamesftw 2016-12-06
Haven't seen this yet! Interesting! Definitely a striking resemblance.
1 one2-3 2016-12-06
It's really creepy how similar they look, if I was on the police force I would definitely look into this...
0 niakarad 2016-12-06
I don't think there has actually been any evidence found yet that they were in the area, and isn't there a lot more to those sketches, (off the top of my head so may not be exact) that there was only one suspect, and the original description/sketch didnt look anything like those(was supposed to be a much younger man) and those 2 are from a few years later, and are 2 different peoples interpretation of the same person
58 XXX-XXX-XXX 2016-12-06
Maybe its just a dumb conspiracy theory?
12 Sanquich 2016-12-06
You know what sub you are on, right?
8 SynthD 2016-12-06
Dude I thought that too. Then I saw "biggest in history" in the title and I was convinced. No chance at all of hyperbole through the roof.
1 c_brownie 2016-12-06
Nice input
54 KidCharlemagne333 2016-12-06
I think the readiness with which y'all discredit dissenters as "shills" and "CTR" makes you look unreasonable and turns people away.
I've only came around on this thing in the past 24 hours, before that I was fighting against it and offering up holes in the theory, not here but on facebook. I'm not a shill, I don't work for anybody, I'm a thinking person who doesn't jump on witchhunts until I'm properly convinced and my questions answered. I think 90% of the people you're calling shills are the same way, and they can be swayed, but calling them shills and acting like skepticism is absurd is only going to push them further against your cause.
15 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
26 LoganLinthicum 2016-12-06
I'm a very conspiracy-minded person. I think the original Podesta map pizza related handkerchief was extremely suspicious and very likely coded speech. I think all the Comet Pingpong stuff is frantic, hysterical tailchasing from people who are quiveringly eager to push a narrative, and are reaching far to pick the cherries to build it.
I've also noticed how pizzagate discussion is very often generously packaged in appeal to emotion, which hampers analysis.
14 patriotphiladelphia 2016-12-06
Just curious, comet shit aside, but has anyone at all addressed what why that silsby lady was a priority to help out in Haiti? Or the Epstein shit? I think the comet pong regardless hasn't been proven by any means but I have not seen on explanation solidly offered for that stuff in the slightest and that shit is fishy
7 LoganLinthicum 2016-12-06
Not that I have seen, and that is why I have to speak out against what I see as unfounded pizzagate hysteria. Intentionally or otherwise, it is overshadowing other revelations and developments that I feel are much more actionable.
3 rotj 2016-12-06
Same reason the State Department tried to help out arsonist Ted Maher.
One of the duties of the State Department is to help protect the civil and legal rights of Americans abroad. They're not there to help the innocent and ignore the guilty. They're there to prevent Americans from being railroaded by a foreign government.
1 patriotphiladelphia 2016-12-06
Not really a fair comparison because most Americans being held by foreign governments are t accused of attempted child trafficking. Also, silsby stated herself that she was there on work for her charity, thus she wouldn't even qualify as a tourist. Not to mention the fact the email indicates at least some type of relationship between her and Clinton
2 rotj 2016-12-06
Whether you're a tourist or not doesn't matter. Maher was employed as a nurse. What you're accused of doesn't matter, just that the accusation is dealt with fairly by the foreign government.
It also helped that both Maher and Silsby had substantial supporters at home campaigning for their government representatives to intervene in their cases.
Silsby's biggest US government advocates were 2 senators and 2 congressmen from her home state of Idaho, all but one of whom are Republican. And they were the ones who pushed the State Department to take an active interest in the case. I don't see anything unusual about how her case was handled by the government. I've read the emails and they look like simple media briefings.
n/a patriotphiladelphia 2016-12-06
Wow that is very well constructed argument and your logic is sound I stand corrected
14 djklbd 2016-12-06
Ok, so you say the handkercheif bit was suspicious, and worth investigating, correct?
We did investigate. And it exposed a cozy relationship with James Alefantis, owner of comet ping pong.
See how that works? How things link to other things? You can't just pick out one little facet of an investigation, and if it doesn't suit you, you can't deem the entire investigation as phoney...Thats not how that works, man...We're thinking BIG picture, a lot of you guys are thinking small picture, and it's clouding your judgement. The ability to think critically and make connections isn't something everybody has, you have to develop it.
You seem like a pretty open minded guy, I would really like to help you see this. PM me sometime, I'm willing to go over some of this stuff together with you if you'd like. We truly believe in this cause, this isn't a game to us. We need as many open minded thinkers such as yourself to be a part of this.
19 LoganLinthicum 2016-12-06
I don't dispute the relationship, that's a valid link. But the link itself doesn't imply anything nefarious. I have fairly exhaustively reviewed the circumstantial evidence arrayed against Alefantis and do not find any of if compellingly suggestive of any wrongdoing.
I would be happy to discuss any single point of evidence that you feel I've misjudged. Here, in a public forum.
9 Ty199 2016-12-06
Curious how you believe this pizza shop owner is the 50th most powerful person in Washington according to GQ and washington times? Must be some decent pizza.
There's also proof of 5 figure payments coming from high level politicians to cpp.
Look a little deeper, there's so many weird connections in this.
3 Scubetrolis 2016-12-06
Other restaurant owners were on the list, just so you know.
1 morbidexpression 2016-12-06
well, yes. It's a popular place with a trendy clientele of DC movers and shakers. Are you upset with GQ's rankings and feel like a few other DC establishments were stiffed?
1 djklbd 2016-12-06
I have fairly exhaustively reviewed the circumstantial evidence arrayed against Alefantis and do not find any of if compellingly suggestive of any wrongdoing.
That may be the case, but the tens of thousands of people on this sub alone have done the same and would disagree with you. Aren't you interested in finding out why? Do you think we are all dedicating countless hours and energy into this for no reason? Or is there at least SOMETHING to it worth looking for?
I think for an intelligent and critical thinker like yourself to dismiss this case would be a mistake, thats all i'm saying buddy. Take another look at it sometime, we'll be here.
15 LoganLinthicum 2016-12-06
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum Apeal to numbers logical fallacy.
I have looked, I do not find the evidence compelling. If you would like to present to me what you believe to be the three most damning pieces of evidence against Alefantis, I would be happy to explain why I don't find them convincing.
11 evoken1 2016-12-06
What about all the other instances of coded speech?
What about blatantly saying sacrificing chicken to Moloch?
What about the pedo logos at Besta?
What about the odd proximity of all these businesses; CPP, Besta, Terasol, Beyond Borders?
What about Alefantis' countless creepy instagram photos and comments?
What about Alefantis' instagram avatar being a statue of a guy involved in pederasty?
What about the odd bands with sexual/pedo innuendos associated with a "child friendly" pizzeria?
What about the Podestas looking identical to the police sketches of who abducted Madeliene McCann?
What about John Podesta still remaining friends with a known pedophile for years?
What about their disturbed taste in art plastered around their homes, pictures of half-naked children tied up, people being eaten, etc.?
What about their ties to Marina Abramovic, the creepy "spirit cooker" with links to Satanism?
What about Hillary Clinton's connection to Laura Silsby?
What about the massively disproportionate amount of children going missing in Virginia around Halloween?
etc...
Sure, you can write off a couple coincidences as being odd, but when they just keep stacking up, your gut should tell you that something is definitely not right about the situation.
Every time I see someone say that Pizzagate is bullshit, they conveniently focus on one aspect and completely ignore the vast majority of other evidence there is.
42 leila23 2016-12-06
Edit: Thanks for my very first gold, stranger! You took my goldinity!
Hi, I don't know what I'm doing in this sub because I am going to get downvoted to hell. I am a journalist...not a super well-known one and one focused on lifestyle reportage. But I am not a "shill." I am, however, by all accounts, a Brooklyn dweller. And I've dug deep into this conspiracy, because the other thing I am is a trained and literal researcher. I have a couple of comments.
What instances of coded speech? If someone shows me anything about "dominoes" being mentioned in an email, I will scream. That's so beyond circumstantial. The email with the realtor about the kids coming to the lake house to hang is also such a far leap, it makes me concerned. Did you read the whole thing? This is a family friend.
If you look at my Instagram, it looks like I sacrifice shit all the time.
The logos are what comes up when you LITERALLY google "triangle clip art": https://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-image-spiral-triangle-shapes-icons-image2246916
Once again, if you look at my Instagram feed, I look super creepy. I allude to death and becoming death (...the Neil Gaiman character). I have photos of black, dead eyes. Me with ripped tights and bloody knees. And yes, they exist alongside pictures of my tiny niece and nephews.
I can't see the avatar, but do you think, in the age of social media, this dude would be THAT obvious? Worry about the shit you don't see, right?
This is the one that gets me the most. There is a restaurant in Brooklyn called Roberta's. It's ostensibly child-friendly. But at night, it becomes a venue for punk and weirdness. No kids are there. It's just using the space after hours. As for the posters? Have you been to an indie rock show lately? I mean, fuck, google Liars videos, or Professor Professor. Shock is an aesthetic. (Note: I haven't heard of the bands that you guys are focusing on, but for what it's worth I have heard of Title Tracks. That dude has been around for a while). Have you considered that imagery concerning lost and disenfranchised youth feels applicable to rock musicians?
The "perverted" taste in art is motherfucking Marina Abramovich. She is not a "creepy satanist." She is very actually the most important performance artist alive. That's like calling Leigh Bowery a street rat, or Basquiat made gang signs. Her entire, VERY well-documented career is based on making people uncomfortable. I was actually AT the Pace when she did the performance with Jay-Z, and Jeffrey Saltz, and Michael Musto, and basically everyone ever in the art world. She returns to themes of alienation, bodies, and touch again and again. "Spirit Cooking", the original book, is beautiful and poetic. (I don't typically like Marina but that piece of work, which lives in the MoMA, is great.)
Secondly, you guys are freaking out about a Louis Bougeois statue in a "Jeffrey Dahmer" pose. A) If I got to see someone's private Louise Bougeois statue, I sure as shit would take that pic and put it on social media because she is one of the most influential artists of the 20th century. B) It saddens me that this is how art is being viewed today. Don't google Henry Darger, Jenny Saville, or the Kremaster Cycle. You will be very upset and probably think they are pedofiles too.
As for the Haiti connection: I can't speak to that as clearly. But to show me someone with a Louise Bougeois in their home and call it "creepy" isn't fair.
Lastly, and most honestly, Alefantis is a gay hipster restaurant owner. Last week I went to my friend's comedy show where she discussed mother hood (she's heavily pregnant. Look up "small hole, big head" at Ars Nova if you don't believe me.) One bit was her gay friend talking about how terrified he was of babies, and how they depress him. Another was a burlesque dancer acting as her doula but doing an S&M inspired dance to NIN "Closer". So, yes, there is video out there of a woman stomping around a pregnant belly, lip synching "I want to fuck you like an animal." Out of context, taken from outside of the space, outside of the theatrical space where signs and signifiers are supposed to be messed with, where irony and discomfort are employed...yeah, that might look insane. But I don't want my friends to stop making fun of our friends with kids because, what if they like a place on FB that has political ties, run by a gay man, and suddenly they are stalked and harassed.
Most importantly, though, to me: The thing that makes me the most upset, and why I am commenting, is that this response feels like a complete misunderstanding--and also fear--of gay men being gay around children. That Instagram cache has photos of kids, and photos of sexuality, but not a single photo of a kid being sexual. (Oh, as an aside...those "yellow anal beads"? Whomever made that claim has never seen an anal bead before up close. Have you considered the possibility it's a teething necklace?) I have dug through the art, the photos, the symbols, watched the videos and I don't see anything even remotely perverted. I see, you know, someone being a weird person, being and living out of the "norm"--even if we find it distasteful--someone who might have a lot of friends and family. And that disconnect, for everyone expounding this theory, worries me. [Edit: Henry Darger was also probably a pedophile. The rest stands though. RENAISSANCE PAINTINGS. There. There you have loads of naked kids.]
7 IvanDenisovitch 2016-12-06
Modern art is associated with Jews, so it's immediately considered irrevocably degenerate around here. And, you're exactly right about the demonization of gay men having kids.
This is the American Al Queda.
8 leila23 2016-12-06
Thanks. I read r/conspiracy a lot and am generally struck by the thoughtful deep diving that happens here too.
2 op_brilliant_cascade 2016-12-06
1 leila23 2016-12-06
I mean, as a reporter, this makes me much more creeped out.
1 evoken1 2016-12-06
Where someone literally mentions three young girls' names, their ages and that they would be "entertainment".
Non-argument. You could be a Satanist for all we know.
No it doesn't. You must have scrolled through tens of pages to find that because I can't find anything like it.
Yes, you are creepy. However, I assume you don't do anything like referring to children as 'hotards', or taping their hands to the table.
Why not? You realise some people 'get off' on flaunting their misdeeds in front of oblivious others, right?
Indeed, that place is weird as fuck, but I don't see how that makes CPP any less weird. For all we know they could be involved in some shady shit as well.
Nah, she's sketchy as fuck. You'd have to be a nutjob to have any sort of relationship with that hag. Any idiot can do batshit insane shit and claim "hurr durr it's art", doesn't make it any less sinister.
0 leila23 2016-12-06
"Nah, she's sketchy as fuck. You'd have to be a nutjob to have any sort of relationship with that hag. Any idiot can do batshit insane shit and claim "hurr durr it's art", doesn't make it any less sinister."
I mean, cool. That's your opinion. It is not the opinion of, say, MoMA, universities, art critics, galleries, and authors. Plenty of art is sinister. It's kind of the point. (I mean, FFS, have you ever SEEN Damien Hirst's work?)
Edits: I'm not going to go through each of these, but every one is so circumstantial and, furthermore, such a reach. I do not read—AT ALL—that email as anything other than, "These kids are coming to the swimming party with us, and they will be small and fun and entertaining.
Look, I don't want to feed your delusions, but that Luzzatto woman has a pretty open Facebook. You can see her and her three kids, over and over again, and her lake house, and people at her lake house, doing summery things. Lastly, as to "taping hands to a table." Yeah, I mean, that's not in good taste but it is not exactly evidence of a pedophile ring...and furthermore, like—kids are weird. I used to ask my father to wrap me in a blanket and tie it up and see if I could get out when I was little. Like, a sack of kid. Sorry, the kid is smiling, unstressed out, and it was a public photo.
Also, if you look at child trafficking stats, it is very, VERY rarely white kids who are victims. If this is focused on a ring out of Haiti, why, um, aren't any of the kids in your evidence pictures black?
1 lionessjj 2016-12-06
How would you explain #chickenlovers?
0 leila23 2016-12-06
Well, Chicken Lovers is a restaurant in New York...? I mean, if you look at the hashtag on instagram, it doesn't look very insidious, does it?
Or, maybe, and I know this is out there, but maybe this restauranteur who has made his life revolving around food just loves chicken?
1 lionessjj 2016-12-06
It seems a bit out of context. It would make sense of they were eating chicken or something. But they're not.
3 leila23 2016-12-06
It does seem out of context. But I don't think that means that you can really infer anything from it. It could be an inside joke with his friends about that South Park episode of the same name? I had a really hard time finding proof that pedofiles refer to themselves (willingly) as Chicken Lovers.
Also, as for "La Boum Boum Room"? Every city I've lived in (NYC, LA, Chicago) all has had a "Boom Boom Room." In fact, the Boom Boom Room in New York is super duper hard to get into and definitely known as an "it" venue, with really insane lines around the block. It's actually kind of a cliche name for anyone in night life.
26 yiliu 2016-12-06
Because you're basically piling mountains of vague bullshit up faster than it can be debunked. People focus on the more substantial points, but by then you've moved on to other unrelated shit.
You guys are reading code into speech. Could be regular speech, maybe a bit rushed, could be abbreviated for convenience, could be in-jokes, could be a million things. That's the weakest shit ever. If your online conversations with friends were pored over by thousands of internet trolls--who started out convinced that you'd done something wrong--do you think they'd come away with nothing at all unusual?
Point to it. I'm betting it's a joke, but I've never seen it...nobody ever links to evidence, they just evade and then call you a shill.
BTW, is this part of the conspiracy now? They're not just pedophiles and slavers, they're not even satanic, they're worshiping Moloch and sacrificing children?
You say it's a pedo logo. It vaguely resembles some logo that apparently has been used by child porn forums in the past...and also the logos of like a million businesses in the 90s. Could it just be a coincidence? Of fucking course it could. Anyway, if you were a child trafficker, would you put a well-known pedophile logo on your sign, in the nation's capital?
It's DC? There's lots of organizations in a relatively small area. The country is governed from there, you know. Anyway, it's you guys who are first connecting those orgs in your own mind, and then asked why they were so close together.
Creepy is subjective. Maybe he's a wannabe artist with some kooky friends. I saw a few in another thread, they looked odd. Odd like an odd friend might take. They did not suggest child sex slavery to me.
Or...maybe...maybe...bear with me here...the dude owns a pizzaria and likes kids. Is that possible? Naah, it must be an underground child sex slave ring (and sacrificial cult, to boot!). Occam's razor, right?
Have you considered the possibility that all the sexual innuendo is in your head?
I don't know who his avatar was. Socrates? Seems like you're being deliberately vague.
If you grabbed a handful of random police sketches, you could find some that looked like Podesta, who's a pretty typical looking white dude. You could probably find one that looks a bit like me, or a bit like you, too. Not exactly compelling.
If true, and if the pedophile isn't of the "I was 18, she was 17 1/2" variety, then that casts him in a bad light. He might not be a guy I'd like to hang around with. Does that do much to support the accusations of pizzagate? Nope.
That's an exaggeration, based on what I've seen. What I saw (from one of you guys, so I assume it was supposed to be damning) was an abstract sculpture of a guy hanging upside down. Pretty weird. Par for the course for modern art, but sure, weird. Podesta seems like an odd guy. Still, nothing that would begin to suggest a child sex slave ring (unless you think the MOMA is the biggest slaving operation in the world?! Gasp!).
We're getting close to the end of the list, hope you saved the best for last...
Yeah, what about their ties to an artist? Seems like this Podesta guy is really into weird modern art. I don't...think that's a crime...let me check...nope, definitely not a crime.
...That you guys made up?
You mean her tenuous, six-degrees-of-separation connection? Or the fact that she, as Secretary of State, paid attention to an international incident in Haiti?
First, is that even unusual in the country? Second, WTF does Halloween have to do with anything? What relates this to Podesta, or Hillary, or whoever? This is just like the rest, a random fucking fact just thrown out there.
When you're building a case, you're supposed to find evidence that points to the conclusion you're trying to establish. This is just a pile of facts (well...maybe facts) that are basically intended as character assassination. Some of it is weird, the rest is actually pretty normal. None is at all related to your conclusion. If you were trying to convince the world that Podesta, and maybe the pizzaria guy, has an unhealthy obsession with children...you still fell way short, and that's a hell of a lot short of your real claim, which is that they're part of a whole network of child sex slavers and a child-sacrificing cult. Your evidence is that they have an odd taste in art (as far as you're concerned, at least), and that there sure are a lot of organizations in DC.
Alright, I'm done. I tried to address all your point for you. You can go ahead and dismiss me as a shill now, and go back to patting yourself on the back for your awesome investigative skills.
9 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
Just wanted to say thanks for this block of text, it covers a lot of my feelings on the subject too. I have friends in DC who know the owner of comet pizza, and this crap going on has seriously hurt him and his employees, it's really fucked up. Comet pizza is like a 3 room building with solid concrete floors, the people I know in the area have lived there since the building went up, there's no secret basement, there's no 'kill room' Just the normal kitchen, main dining area and a back room for parties/overflow, they use black curtains to cover the unattractive exit doors and roll-up doors, and the walk-in freezer is out back and shared with another restaurant iirc (why it's larger than necessary) there's nothing going on there, and nowhere to do it.
3 leila23 2016-12-06
Are you me? You sound like me. (see below.)
2 yiliu 2016-12-06
I hope not! We need as many distinct voices of sanity as possible to combat this craziness.
2 Dwunky 2016-12-06
I swear /u/yiliu and /u/leila23 might be me as well. Only difference is I am far to lazy to write anything up.
2 leila23 2016-12-06
I will be angry on your behalf. Please nap comfortably on mine.
0 LoganLinthicum 2016-12-06
I am discounting all the evidence I have seen arrayed against Comet PingPong, please shape your wordwall to respond to what I am actually saying.
5 keybagger 2016-12-06
Probably because it's not true and someone could have easily died yesterday because of the story. And continuing to disseminate it here will end up getting /r/conspiracy banned.
4 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
10 meeu 2016-12-06
everything can be explained away as more conspiracy, can't it?
it's not just that some poor paranoid idiot who believes in the bullshit that r/pizzagate and now r/conspiracy have cooked up thought he was going to go in there and save some children?
4 mrgrippa 2016-12-06
Concern trolling 101
3 Fistlegs 2016-12-06
Why did nobody die? If someone's goal is to shoot people at a pizza place it's not very hard to do. So how come nobody died?
6 ThatBoogieman 2016-12-06
Likely chickened out when he realized there were no kids there to save and he would suicide by police or spend life in jail if he did something so unbelievably goddamn stupid.
0 Fistlegs 2016-12-06
So he chickened out and just shot the floor. Brilliant move. Anyways who gives a shit. False flag or not it doesn't matter one bit. Nothing about the case changes and nobody will stop investigating. Some retards will ask people to stop which is the same as saying that someone accused of rape that gets threatened should be cleared of all charges. Most likely this will be used to further push the "fake news" narrative which is literally being pushed by James Alefantis ex boyfriend. Nothing to see here folks move along please.
-1 djklbd 2016-12-06
You have no power here...
6 Outofmany 2016-12-06
So shill is bad word, but witch hunt is okay..
3 djklbd 2016-12-06
Oh, like how you brush off our independent investigation as "fake news"? Or deem us a "witch hunt"? You guys are just as bad...The only difference is, we're fighting to save the lives of children, and you're in our fucking way....
18 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
You should join the police or the FBI if you want to save the lives of children. You are not some hero for googling bullshit in your spare time, stop acting like one.
-3 djklbd 2016-12-06
IF the police and FBI actually did their jobs, we wouldn't have to take this investigation into our own hands. Clearly some very powerful people are implicated....
And why are you on /r/conspiracy if you're going to discourage an independent investigation anyway? If you're the kinda guy that frequents a conspiracy forum, shouldn't you welcome a critically thinking and questioning environment, not discourage it?
You clearly aren't contributing to a constructive discussion here, and probably can't be trusted..
Good luck in your goofy campaign...
4 luncht1me 2016-12-06
You sure like to say, "good luck on your campaign" a lot, like you believe everyone on the internet is on some kind of war path lol.
10 KidCharlemagne333 2016-12-06
Dude read the fucking post, I said I was on board with it, I'm on your side. Like I told the other guy, y'all are so up your own ass that you can't even comprehend anything I said other than the part that hurts your bias.
2 djklbd 2016-12-06
I believe the "shill problem" you speak of is invented rationalization that helps the community explain away dissenters. It's a minor form of psyops man, come on y'all should get awakened to your own programming.
Then what the hell is that supposed to mean? You're not contributing much here man. Any rational person is able to see that there is clearly a campaign to control the climate of this subreddit regarding pizzagate.
Go on the record for us, have you done your research on this topic? What is your stance on pizzagate? Sure, there are probably a few legit skeptics, but almost everybody here has agreed with the notion that the majority of them are CTR, which is why this thread made it to the front page so quickly, the majority agrees. However, you seem to be against that notion or proposing your own theory...
If you wanna talk about pizzagate sometime, PM me man. I'd be happy to go over some of this stuff with you. You seem like a relatively rational person who could be convinced that there is a logical basis to all of this, and we need as many people as we can get.
3 KidCharlemagne333 2016-12-06
I stated that I'd came around to believing in pizzagate very recently, as far as the theory itself I am there, I'm with you guys. I've finally looked into everything and I think its legit.
Where we disagree is the CTR-supression angle, now maybe that does go on, I'm sure it did during the election, but I don't feel that the behavior OP is talking about is a product of a mass clandestine attempt to suppress. Being someone who was one of these dissenters until now I can empathize and feel that these people are skeptics just like I was who haven't been swayed or seen the right piece of evidence yet.
3 djklbd 2016-12-06
Dude, all you have to do is look at some of their profiles and post history. A lot of these profiles are merely a few hours old! And tons of them have never even visited or posted /r/conspiracy before!
Ask yourself, why would a bunch of random, newly made accounts swarm a conspiracy forum in unison that they rarely (if ever) have visited, and discourage people from critical thinking and independent investigation? It's a conspiracy forum! This is supposed to be a safehaven from persecution and terms like "whacky" "loony" "fucking crazy", right?
It's wayyyyyy out of the ordinary and it all started happening recently.
Just look at their profiles and examine their post history, a few seconds is all it takes for most of them.
2 rabblerabble2000 2016-12-06
Not a poster here, but also not a shill...the reason new accounts are posting here is that you guys are regularly hitting /r/all, and with information which seems dubiously connected to show what you want it to show. To outsiders, it seems like maybe you have been infiltrated by shills, just not in the way you all assume. The shills are the ones pushing the narrative that this is anything more than a pizza place to make you all look like violent unhinged psychopaths when the inevitable happens (as happened the other day).
2 phyrros 2016-12-06
Then you should just think a moment about what you a really doing. By pushing the bs narrative you create exactly the situation where child trafficking and molestation accussations are only used for political gain.
You wanna see a big conspiracy and don't give a damn about the real life where there is still no frigging public discourse about pedophilia and how to stop chidl molestation.
If you would really give a damn about "the children" you would push for strong social services, for a situation where churches and cults couldn't hide behind "religious freedom", where the export of religious intolerance from the US to africa would be shame in public.
You would push for a society where people with pedophile tendencies would get treatment before they go all teh way to child molestation, you would push for a society where orphan shelters would a normal budget to operate and you would push for transparency.
You are doing neither of that. You use the topic to push a political narrative.
-2 Aruno 2016-12-06
Did he specify you or anyone in particular? No Is there a shill problem here? Yes What's your problem?
15 KidCharlemagne333 2016-12-06
I told you my exact problem. I believe the "shill problem" you speak of is invented rationalization that helps the community explain away dissenters. It's a minor form of psyops man, come on y'all should get awakened to your own programming.
0 sh3rog 2016-12-06
Answer me this. If these photos are in no way suspicious why hasn't a single news paper or TV report actually shown them? Answer is pretty obvious
4 duckraul2 2016-12-06
Didn't you kind of just answer your own question? If the photos are in no way suspicious, why would they spend valuable airtime showing profoundly uninteresting photos?
And anyway, I have seen some of the photos appear in articles from a few different publications, so I'm not sure what you're getting at.
3 sh3rog 2016-12-06
Because these are the origins of the theories. Reporting is their fucking job, so they're doing a piss poor job of explaining to people what is going on without showing these images. Besides which, by not showing them, they are just giving more ammo to people like me to go around and ask "why aren't they showing this"
I know why, because everyone I've shown has done a 180 lol because the images speak for themselves
4 soul_shakedown_party 2016-12-06
Are you talking about, for example, the photo of the girl with her hands taped to the table?
My best guess is news organizations cannot just display photos of minors on the air like that without permission from the parents and signing a release. Isn't that a reasonable expectation, some privacy?
2 sh3rog 2016-12-06
Nope they were publicly posted on the internet so her parents can thank James Alefantis for putting her in the public eye like this. They could also censor her face.
1 Miss_spelled_meme 2016-12-06
This is classic, sh3rog demands that because the "proof" was not shown on TV it has weight. But if it was shown on TV, he would say "It was on TV, there is your proof". Defending your theory by demanding others make it real.
2 KidCharlemagne333 2016-12-06
What are you talking about? I do think they're suspicious, read my original post, I'm with you.
This is part of the problem too, if anyone goes against the shilljerk you assume they are with the other side.
-2 Aruno 2016-12-06
Invented rationalisation. Kk
45 royalstaircase 2016-12-06
I ain't no shill, I just am getting sick of seeing this batshit insane crap on r/all and you guys have spent way too much time talking into an echo chamber.
That terrorism attempt yesterday was the last straw for me, I'm gonna be a regular on this subreddit now just to point out how stupid most of the crap you guys believe is. I can't let you guys continue making up silly stories and putting people's lives in danger in the process.
If you wanna believe this stupid shit you're gonna have to go through me first.
Go ahead, try to convince me that some guy's emails about eating pizza somehow means that hillary clinton and george soros are cannibal child molesters. I dare you. I've read all your "evidence" and it sounds like the world's most pathetic game of 6 degrees of kevin bacon.
16 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
29 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
I just... wow. Okay.
11 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
11 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
K.
11 thats_not_kosher 2016-12-06
Yea because everyone knows calling someone a shill is the height of reasoned rebuttals. Do you have any evidence it's a false flag, other than the fact that it suits your narrative?
1 AnalogDan 2016-12-06
20 royalstaircase 2016-12-06
How convenient!
1 podesta_the_molesta 2016-12-06
How convenient for the cameras outside the pizza place to have been moved 12 hours before during the weekend when public workers are notoriously known not to work
1 royalstaircase 2016-12-06
Have you considered that they moved the cameras because creeps sending a random pizzeria death threats were spying on the employees of this restaurant?
14 nickiter 2016-12-06
Fucking prove it. This claim of false flags is constant and never has more than circumstantial evidence.
3 Xer0day 2016-12-06
The guy who did it was an actor. Who recently committed a crime but was let off with no charges .
And the traffic camera was changed to face away from the building the day before the attack.
2 DaneGleesac 2016-12-06
I saw the same imade you did. Do you know why images like that are so popular? Because you have to believe everything they say, there's no links for you to check yourself.
Did you look at the actual IMDB page? He wasn't an "actor" at all. And if he was, don't you think the government would have removed his IMDB page?
He didn't commit a crime, he hit someone with his car in October and cooperated with police. He was going the speed limit and was never charged.
1 Xer0day 2016-12-06
The government doesn't have control of external websites, also I was unaware hitting a child with a car was not a crime.
2 morbidexpression 2016-12-06
seriously, this giant web of conspiracy that reaches the highest echelons of power... can't edit an IMDB profile?
1 zeno82 2016-12-06
Do you have links or sources for the camera being flipped around? I'd like to read more.
3 Xer0day 2016-12-06
Originally found out via 4chan but here you go
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1150567/pg1
6 magnora7 2016-12-06
Agreed
5 magnora7 2016-12-06
Thinking about this more, it's so clear it was. The timing is just too much. People were talking about comet pizza, so let's make a huge new story about comet pizza that distracts from the original story and can dominate the news to block out any pizzagate stories... then also it's just a random one-off terrorist shooting, which happens with a fair degree of regularity now (unfortunately), and it's being focused on overly-heavily (as compared to the OKC shooter at an airport), which shows they're trying to overwrite people's idea of comet pizza as being associated with pizzagate, to now associating it with this random act of terrorism (which was probably done by a 3 letter agency to protect those people involved in this ring, because then their blackmail control of the politicians would become worthless).
Ugh.
5 wetpantsclub 2016-12-06
Devils advocate - Most people have not heard of pizzagate. This shooting has brought more attention to the subject. If this was a false flag, its not a very strategic one.
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
Perhaps it was legit, you could be right
-1 mrgrippa 2016-12-06
Maybe you have an explanation for the strange eye deformity https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1458452
21 royalstaircase 2016-12-06
How about the lighting? Or the camera being wonky? There are a million explanations more plausible than harvesting vampires or whatever shit they're talking about in that thread.
5 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
Yeah, dark colored occlusions in the iris are pretty common for those with blue or light colored eyes, something like this would appear like the photos if the room is dimly lit, it's not unusual, and definitely not sufficient to prove some sort of conspiracy (the examples are with ideal lighting the dark areas would be much darker under indirect lighting conditions):
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/12/article-2246888-1679CB71000005DC-607_964x959.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2016/03/11/10/3215FF9400000578-0-image-a-41_1457691636316.jpg
0 mrgrippa 2016-12-06
The camera was wonky on Soros and the little girl in the same way?
9 royalstaircase 2016-12-06
I'm leaning more on lighting than wonky camera tbh., but the cameras could be wonky sure. Makes more sense than genetic test tube vampire pedo ring. Not even sure what this eyeball stuff is supposed to even suggest if it were anything.
2 fdajj 2016-12-06
holy shit I actually feel bad for these people
2 djklbd 2016-12-06
Me too, anybody with eyes can see that pizzagate has merit. I was skeptical until I saw the false flag yesterday, now i'm starting to believe there is something to it..
38 ajcunningham55 2016-12-06
Chill. It's just not worth pursuing right now. We need more hard evidence. Speculation day in and day out will get us nowhere, and discredit us in the process.
Keep digging guys. Evidence speaks louder than ignorance.
28 keybagger 2016-12-06
Evidence like the missing children, accusations by scared parents, break-ins involving intelligence agents, and the baseless firing of employees asking too many questions?
52 JoePesciOfGoneFishin 2016-12-06
What missing children and scared parents?
71 keybagger 2016-12-06
There aren't any. Those were just examples of things that would have turned up by now. It's been months.
16 JoePesciOfGoneFishin 2016-12-06
Ok thanks for clarifying. I didn't think there was an actual evidence for this, but I wasn't sure what you were getting at.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
32 JoePesciOfGoneFishin 2016-12-06
yeah we get a big list of threads to target, usernames to monitor ... but sometimes mistakes happen. there's obviously some bumps in the road as CTR transitions from a campaign organization to a full-time multi-billion dollar apparatus
0 djklbd 2016-12-06
Eh, at least he's honest. You wanna hang out sometime?
19 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
I hope you get banned for calling every person you disagree with a shill. I hope the mods ban your ass.
8 d3rr 2016-12-06
On Voat you can call each other shills till the cows come home. I think they call it free speech or something.
7 Lamedonyx 2016-12-06
On voat, you can use the words nigger and coon seriously.
I don't think voat is a good role model.
6 one_1_quickquestion 2016-12-06
Why is having no restriction on what words you can use a bad thing?
-1 d3rr 2016-12-06
Hhahahaa. I think you just proved the sites to be equally trashy.
-1 GoyBoyAdvanced 2016-12-06
That's just like comparing Hillary and Trump.
People don't care about muh racism anymore.
1 SpartanTank 2016-12-06
I beg to differ. Many children that go missing do so from low-income rural communities. Also, didn't you get this memo?
1 CreepyStickGuy 2016-12-06
I'm not really sold on this whole thing, I think people might be going crazy about certain aspects, but I live in Asia. Human trafficking happens a lot. Parents sell kids or they are kidnapped. Go try and find statistics on missing children in China or India. It is nearly impossible to find reliable numbers.
Last week I saw a printed piece of paper with broken english and a picture of a girl with "missing" at the top. This gives zero evidence for any of the stuff going on with this whole conspiracy theory, but the missing kids and scared parents are probably all in places in the world where they don't have a voice to be heard.
-1 lunatickid 2016-12-06
For some unknown reason, Virginia seems to have a ridiculously high per-capita missing children, no?
3 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
And the US murder rate correlates with internet explorer usage:
https://kaiserscience.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/ie-versus-murder-rate-correlation.jpg
Correlation does not equal causation. You need more than that to get anywhere.
1 lunatickid 2016-12-06
Question:
My answer:
You:
What? I'm literally pointing out that Virginia indeed has way more missing children per capita, which answers the original question. Now to say definitely that the discrepancy is indeed caused by this pizza joint running a pedophile ring would be to imply causation from correlation.
Time and time again, this conspiracy isn't about one "smoking gun". There will not be a smoking gun unless a grave mistake is made by one of them. This statistics isn't a smoking gun, but it's part of a huge pile of evidence that keeps stacking up, all pointing to one conclusion. We are in the process of proving causation.
1 ajcunningham55 2016-12-06
Sources for my own reading please
1 mahatma_arium_nine 2016-12-06
There's more than enough evidence to warrant a federal investigation into pizzagate and everyone involved. People get indicted and investigated for far less every day.
1 podesta_the_molesta 2016-12-06
Don't forget the police sketches of kidnappers that look an awful lot like the podesta brothers!
0 magnora7 2016-12-06
and the emails that make no sense using obviously coded language, and the fact this random pizza guy is the 49th most powerful person in DC according to GQ, and the giant giant freezer room they have in the basement they now deny exists, and the fact they changed the pizza place logo from a known pedophile logo as soon as this all started coming out... there's just too many coincidences and ass covering for me to be able to say there's nothing to look at here
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 Xer0day 2016-12-06
A pizza map related handkerchief?
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 Xer0day 2016-12-06
You're just assuming I haven't read because I phrased the words differently. Several typos in a row would not lead to that string of words. And pizza has long been known as code for cp. It's been that way for at least 15 years, from a cursory google .
Also what kind of elite person would carry a literal handkerchief with a pizza map on it? What is a pizza map
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 Xer0day 2016-12-06
I sure did, you linked to another thread about comments in other emails. And you did mention typos causing the email to read differently.
I'm on mobile, just search pizza code word for child porn, 1990s with a search filter ending before this year
0 FrigggOffRandy 2016-12-06
There were literally mugs shots of people for an abduction and ppl still won't do shit
3 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
No there were police sketch artist composites from testimony, there's a big difference between that and mugshots/actual photos.
1 FrigggOffRandy 2016-12-06
The police sketch looked exactly like him, I misspoke, my point still stands and it's irrefutable.
2 ajcunningham55 2016-12-06
That's not nearly good enough to convict or even arrest someone in this case
1 FrigggOffRandy 2016-12-06
Well then you haven't seen the comparison as it looks exactly like them and they were in the country at that time
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 FrigggOffRandy 2016-12-06
Fuck man, it's of the podesta Brothers, I'm on my phone, it's on the pizzagate infographic thing. And it's all over. Just Google it.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 FrigggOffRandy 2016-12-06
No if you read Into it more it's actually multiple people involved in the abductions. The podesta Brothers were also a mile away staying at their known pedophile friends house. Read it more, idk why poeple keep saying this 'it was one person' nonsense. Becuase it's not true and u most likely didn't read it
37 cantsay 2016-12-06
I've been on reddit nine years, and I love a good provable conspiracy theory, but I'm not buying this one. There's such a thing as the powers that be promoting false conspiracies to delegitimize the crowd that typically discovers the real ones.
0 magnora7 2016-12-06
Which is what I think the shooting in front of the pizza place was
-2 djklbd 2016-12-06
Perhaps you could walk us through the various elements of the investigation that you found shaky? Which parts of the investigation did you find faulty? Can you explain to me each piece of evidence you found to be lacking, and WHY you found it to be lacking? Do you propose another potential explaination for all of this? I think it's fair that if you are going to stand in solidarity and deny something, especially on a forum where well over 85% of us are in support of this investigation, you should explain why.
10 cantsay 2016-12-06
Seems like a lot of straw grasping. Not to mention the whole cheese pizza thing is a relatively new euphemism for child porn, and it's unlikely a bunch of old men would be using it as code. Also, just from your comment I can feel how much you WANT this to be true, and I think that probably goes for a lot of those sharing your view. Everyone wants to be Sherlock breaking the case.
5 djklbd 2016-12-06
I was hoping for a more thought out and systematic rebuttal, not a broad "meh, seems like a lot of straw grasping".
Somebody saying, "meh, seems like a lot of straw grasping", wouldn't hold up in court.
Could you perhaps be more specific? Name specific findings and provide something to support your claim as we have all done.
4 yiliu 2016-12-06
You guys are making the extraordinary claims, the onus is on you to provide some real evidence. Point out some actual solid evidence (more solid than "that logo is weird!" or "that guy has a strange instagram account!"), and then people can refute it.
8 djklbd 2016-12-06
But you're on a conspiracy forum. If you're the kind of guy who frequents a conspiracy forum, you're probably familiar with "extrodinary claims". You wouldn't be the kind of person to immediately reject and brush off an independent investigation, you're supposed to have an open mind, right? So, why are you so aggressively against THIS independent investigation? And, with that being said, I think the fact that you're putting aside the safety of possibly thousands of children (who could be saved if we acted uniformily and swiftly to wake the masses) is insanely selfish.
Why don't you put in the effort to do some basic research like the rest of us have?
8 yiliu 2016-12-06
You're mistaken, I landed here from /r/all. I come from the real world, where some sort of evidence is a prerequisite to declaring that the government is running a child sex slave ring.
5 djklbd 2016-12-06
No, I live in the real world where my crooked and horridly corrupt government has not earned the benefit of the doubt from me on this one. The sociopaths in government are the EXACT type of people I'd expect this from.
Are you not aware that many governments around the world are caught doing this regularly?
http://theantimedia.org/pedophile-ring-politicians/
As well as the catholic church throughout history?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases
But you wouldn't know that, because you have refused to put forth the tiniest bit of effort to begin researching pizzagate like the rest of us have. It's not that hard dude. If you refuse to do research on something, and instead simply blow or brush it off as nonsense, than your opinion on the subject holds no merit.
5 yiliu 2016-12-06
So...you're starting out with the assumption that anyone in government is already guilty, and it's just a matter of pinning something on them. Correct?
Accusations were thrown around, but didn't go very far. I'm sure you assume that's because they were suppressed. I think they just didn't have very far to go--there may have been some pedophiles in government, but there were no massive conspiracies.
There were priests who were pedophiles. The church, for fear of losing trust, covered the stories up and shuffled the priests around. They've been condemned for that--and quite correctly. They have a shitload to answer for. But what exactly does that have to do with these accusations? You're not claiming that there may be a few pedophiles in the DNC, you're claiming that there's a massive secret child sex slavery conspiracy right at the top of the DNC! For that, there is no precedent...unless, of course, you assume there is, and then also assume it was covered up.
You assume. I'm familiar enough with conspiracy theories that it didn't take long to debunk it.
You guys won't actually stand up and put forth an argument, you're always telling people to "look it up yourself, do the research". That's because--whether you realize it or not--you know deep down that if you put up your arguments, they'd be torn to shreds. If you can convince somebody to enter the echo chamber of conspiracy pages and forums, they may actually be worn down by the constant barrage of misinformation, coincidences, half-truths and tenuous links and start to believe. Particularly people without much real-world experience.
Once you start to be able to sort rational arguments from vague assertions, and evidence from coincidence, then it's not too hard to figure out that there's nothing here. There's no single tangible piece of evidence--just a whole bunch of random facts that you guys are determined to build a story with.
2 djklbd 2016-12-06
Why are you so dedicated to stopping an independent investigation? Especially into child trafficking?
I would think that the potential for some of the worlds most prominent members of society being implicated in a pedophile ring would warrant an honest look into the facts, not just be brushed off immediately like you're promoting.
And why are you on a conspiracy sub anyway? Most people on here promote and support this investigation. According to your post history you're not even on /r/conspiracy often and when you are it's all posts against pizzagate all of a sudden?
Good luck with your campaign.
6 yiliu 2016-12-06
I'm not 'dedicated', I just get annoyed by misinformation. You're ruining and threatening lives based on zero substantial evidence. If there was actual, substantial evidence, I'd be all for investigating it--but there's not.
I pop into conspiracy occasionally when I see it on the front page of /r/all, and lately that's all been pizzagate.
3 luncht1me 2016-12-06
LOL
2 Redchevron 2016-12-06
I love these people. They think truth is a matter of popular opinion.
3 cantsay 2016-12-06
I honestly don't care enough. There's not enough here to warrant my effort and the time it would take to go through this point-by-point with you, only for you to inevitably and blindly refute me. I think you're wrong, I think this particular conspiracy is bullshit. Call it the Alex Jones strategy, mis-information to distract you from a real conspiracy nearby. Of course there are elite involved in the child sex trade, but this isn't it.
2 djklbd 2016-12-06
Ignoring even the slightest chance that these people are harming kids is stupid and selfish. It really is that simple.
Your lack of motivation to put forth the tiniest bit of effort to do some research just seems ridiculous to me..
Anyway, if you do decide to look into pizzagate, we'll be here with welcoming arms.
8 cantsay 2016-12-06
Are you familiar with the judicial concepts of reasonable doubt and burden of proof? I don't feel the evidence I've seen comes close to proving this theory beyond a reasonable doubt and I likewise feel the burden of proof is on you and your flat earth buddies to convince those of us who are skeptical. It's not my job to waste my time on this. I'll focus my time, effort, and brainpower on conspiracies I feel are actually real and meaningful to my existence.
3 djklbd 2016-12-06
I've never seen a single flat earth post on this sub.
It's clearly your job to waste your time on this, because you're putting in a lot of effort and time into stifling the pizzagate investigation. Why are you so vehemently against allowing an independent investigation to continue? Wouldn't someone who frequents a conspiracy forum welcome something like this? I don't understand your motives here buddy...
4 cantsay 2016-12-06
Who says I'm obstructing an investigation? What if I don't want this community to be any further delegitimized? Fuck me, right? And the flat earth thing was a pretty clear metaphor and I stand by it.
0 cky_stew 2016-12-06
The thing is, there is nothing to debunk. Most of what pizzagate have is insinuations and assumptions based upon speculating facts.
The sheer amount of coincidences that point towards these people associating with paedophilia just keep popping up like every day.
You can't debunk that, it's the truth.
2 djklbd 2016-12-06
Agreed. Too many coincidences to brush off for me, pizzagate deserves looking at.
2 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Further, why would a group of savy politicians use code known and recognized by the FBI as code for child pornography, makes zero sense.
0 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
Relatively new? It's been around since the 70s.
1 cantsay 2016-12-06
ok, child porn enthusiast
1 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
There's a secret hobo language too, am I a hobo enthusiast?
1 cantsay 2016-12-06
probably...?
1 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
Open a book, ffs lol
1 cantsay 2016-12-06
a child porn book? no thanks
1 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
So it's impossible to be educated on anything without being an enthusiast, got it.
0 cantsay 2016-12-06
no, just child porn
10 Rastafak 2016-12-06
I have spent enough time on the internet to know that no matter what I say will not convince you so I'll just quickly list some obvious things.
1. The emails are really weak evidence. It all hinges on assuming that certain words are code for pedo shit, but there's no evidence that this really is so. All of the email could realistically contain no code whatsoever; the wording is little weird in few emails, but this could easily be someone writing a quick email without thinking about it much. Furthermore, even if you assume that the words are codewords, the emails don't actually make much sense either. Take this:
"Do you think I’ll do better playing dominos on cheese than on pasta"
This really doesn't make any sense if you assume that cheese means little boy and pasta a little girl. But if you read the whole email it really looks like there is no code and he is jokingly asking if he would play dominos better after eating cheese than after eating pizza. Or take the handkerchief email. Assuming map means semen, why would he want it back? It doesn't actually make sense. Even if these are codewords, they may be completely unrelated to pedos.
2. Let's assume that Podesta actually built an underground vault to torture,rape,... kids. Why the fuck would he talk about it to the media? Similarly, if they were making secret tunnels in the Pizzeria, why would they take a picture and put it online?
3. The police sketches of the suspects in the kidnapping case are actually supposed to be of one person.
There's of course much more "evidence" than this, but I can't really go through it all. The point is that pretty much all of it is weak and not connected. A person who maybe knows Podesta a little posting few weird pictures on instagram really is no proof. Bill Clinton flying on a private jet of Jeffrey Epstein, who was convicted for soliciting prostitution from girls as young as 14 (though accused of much more) is no proof. John Podesta liking somewhat weird art is not a proof of anything.
You might say that while the individual evidence is weak, all together it's too much to be a coincidence, but I don't agree. A lot of bad evidence does not make a good evidence. But of course I can't really disprove it and frankly most of the evidence for pizzagate really seems so weak that to me it feels pointless to even argue about it.
Anyway, feel free to call me a shill and ignore everything I said.
-1 djklbd 2016-12-06
Lol I can't wait for everybody else to read this...
I'm sorry you're unable to see what the rest of us on here see. Good luck in your little campaign..
7 Rastafak 2016-12-06
I'm not really campaigning. I generally avoid discussions like these because there's no point to them, so I'm not going to argue further. Think about it, is there anything I could say that would change your mind? Even if I would have evidence that pizzagate is not true, you would not believe the evidence. But of course I don't have such evidence, how could I prove that something like this is not happening?
It's very close minded to assume that everyone who disagrees with you is a shill. The reason why this subreddit sees many people who are disagreeing is because it became big and reaches /r/all regularly (that's why I'm here) and because this scandal is pretty political and most redditors and not very fond of Trump.
22 NaughtyHealer 2016-12-06
Shills are useful in their own way. When shills engage, it unfolds one of three ways.
They have nothing but immature, empty words, such as ad hominem insults and such, which shows how incredibly weak their stance is to anyone with an ounce of critical thinking capability.
They serve as 'prompts' for discussions and essentially keep the wheel turning, as far as new/updated information and explanations for anyone who pops in to check things out at any given time. In essence, shill pops up with a typical straw man argument, then anyone else can knock it the fk down for all to see.
In the rare case that they do bring up a good critical observation of something, it helps to encourage vetting and refining evidence and a theory itself. Beware the pitfalls of an echo chamber, in essence.
However it pans out, they help, even if that's not their intention. That is the power and beauty of truth.
3 PaxCocaina 2016-12-06
'Shill' is the embodiment of "immature, empty word"
Have some self awareness and stop forgetting your meds.
-1 d3rr 2016-12-06
Heyo, good positive thinking. Reminds me of how Trump and the Zionists will be so bad for US, that we'll actually hit rock bottom and have nowhere to go but up!
6 djklbd 2016-12-06
wut? That literally had nothing to do with what he just said.
We try to keep comments constructive here on /r/conspiracy, try to stay on topic.
1 d3rr 2016-12-06
I also take offense to your speaking on behalf of the community, and to you saying my comment was not constructive.
7 djklbd 2016-12-06
Relax dude, most people here likely agree with the sentiment...Thats why this post made it to the top so quickly in the first place, isn't it?
People on this sub are clearly interested in investigating Pizzagate as a whole, or it wouldn't dominate the front page each day.
-1 d3rr 2016-12-06
Edit: My bad. I shan't mess with someone sending people over to Voat.
-1 d3rr 2016-12-06
Wtf ever man, it's connected and I explained how.
-10 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
1 Ambiguously_Ironic 2016-12-06
Rule 10, first warning.
16 Crystal_Grl 2016-12-06
/r/paranoidschizophrenia
15 fiasco817 2016-12-06
Everyone please look into Laura Silsby. She was caught in Haiti and jailed for trying to traffic 33 children and the first thing the Clinton Foundation did when they moved into Haiti was Hillary pardoned her, and she now creepily works on the board of directors for a company called AlertSense that is in charge of issuing amber alerts. https://www.alertsense.com/company/executive-team/ (Laura Silsby-Gayler)
The lawyer Hillary used to help absolve Laura also was a convicted child trafficker, you just can't make this stuff up.
So basically, a woman who served time for trafficking kids in Haiti now sits on the board of a company that serves as the backbone for many local authorities when they want to issue Amber Alerts.
WikiLeaks also retweeted this story confirming it's truth and supported with emails to and from Hillary: https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/794247777756860417
WikiLeaks then confirmed Hillary has a LONG history with convicted child trafficker and kidnapper Laura Silsby, and Huma Abedin (vice chairwoman of Hillary's 2016 presidential campaign) has been forwarding emails about Laura Silsby's non government organization to Hillary for years.
Laura Silsby was also former director of The New Life Children's Refuge, the same group that was busted by Haitian authorities trying to traffic kids:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Life_Children%27s_Refuge_case
And the video below is about a bunch of Haitians protesting the evils of the Clintons, and the man protesting in the video mentions how the Clintons have exploited Haiti's resources for themselves, and even specifically mentions people in Haiti are afraid to go out at night because of fear of kidnapping. (4:48 in the video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PeO0SfCw5s&list=PLeAhFbYkBiH1sLiFUnWChhofsYQk7Mc9M&index=66
At around the 2:00 mark he even mentions Tony Rodham (Hillary's brother) is now in charge of gold mines in Haiti and sits on the gold mine's board of directors.
Many people are talking about this story, continue to spread the word!! We need justice for these crimes, and the Clintons should be in prison.
3 romanmoses 2016-12-06
Just as expected. No rebuttals in sight.
14 WooTs_67 2016-12-06
Of course they are here. This is one of the last subs where you can talk about it
14 _PresidentTrump 2016-12-06
I know little about PizzaGate but I can tell it has credability by the flagrant attempts to discredit it.
4 wanking_furiously 2016-12-06
By that logic you would have to believe that the world is flat.
1 _PresidentTrump 2016-12-06
Except people actually debunk that, unlike pizzagate
1 wanking_furiously 2016-12-06
Probably because there is something to positively debunk, rather than reams of distortions and speculation.
2 _PresidentTrump 2016-12-06
So just debunk it. Stop saying 'fake news' 'conspiracy' with zero evidence. You spend 2 days debunking it and you will have convinced people like me it's indeed a conspiracy. You stone wall it for weeks and the just try to discredit without putting an ounce of research well the. You look like a liar.
3 wanking_furiously 2016-12-06
I just don't see anyone here being convinced. There are plenty of people stating that no one should stop believing.
Give me a list of evidence with proper citations and I'll debunk them. It's not like I'm going to fly there and sleuth around (just to have it rejected as fake anyway).
12 zarniwoot 2016-12-06
discredit what? There is literally nothing to discredit. Instead you need to ask yourself who is pushing all these dumb posts to the front of /r/conspiracy. That is the real question.
11 Peregrim 2016-12-06
I've read the posts, and circumstantial connect the dots evidence isn't hard concrete proof of absolutely anything. I'm glad people are willing to look into this and try to help, bit witch hunting and turning on everyone, calling sceptics shills and working yourselves into a frenzy is doing you no good, if there was truth to be found, it is now buried away beyond your grasp, if there was a massive audience to convince, you've turned them away by being so fanatical about this that you just seem insane. What evidence you have gathered has now been sullied by your inability to express it in any sort of way that seemed logical and making people stand by you or at least give you the benefit of the doubt cause if anyone has reserves on your "investigation" you immediately call them shills and start with the. We must protect the children bullshit line cause this is an echo chamber. Every single time this sub hits the front page, the comments turn into a shitshow cause the pizza gate group are by far a minority. It's not some huge grand conspiracy against you, you just have not gathered the public's support. I fail to see what is difficult to understand about this.
10 todo1740 2016-12-06
This is a good thing in a way. Once people are woken up they don't fall back asleep. This censorship can just solidify what people already know.
This is crazy though. We have never seen anything like this before. You can tell the elite are a little worried.
3 magnora7 2016-12-06
Well, it usually takes 4 generations anyway. You can't make the same generation fall back asleep.
10 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
11 magnora7 2016-12-06
Other countries are arresting rings of people in high up positions! This stuff is real and being completely ignored in the US media.
The PM of NZ just resigned over his donation to the Clinton Foundation...
1 virusporn 2016-12-06
What? No he didn't.
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
https://investmentwatchblog.com/new-zealand-prime-minister-resigns-after-getting-caught-giving-13-7-million-in-taxpayer-money-to-the-clinton-foundation-merkel-gave-5-million-to-the-clinton-foundation-during-our-election/
1 virusporn 2016-12-06
Fully aware that he resigned, but there is no indication that the Clinton Foundation donation was a factor in his retirement.
1 umbrajoke 2016-12-06
It started when folks said she was deathly ill at 9/11 and pushing that narrative. You shouldn't have pushed such a bs line. Now no one knows or cares. Good job shooting yourself in the foot.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
2 umbrajoke 2016-12-06
Those are the same folks that have been agreeing with you for the past year.
3 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
3 umbrajoke 2016-12-06
Just like all the " I wasn't going to vote for x but now I will" posts. All you have to do is check their history and see that they believed all along.
1 worldspawn00 2016-12-06
https://kaiserscience.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/ie-versus-murder-rate-correlation.jpg
correlation does not equal causation. Do you really think that pizzagate is why the fake news issue came up and not the GUY WHO WON <50% VOTE AND IS AN UNSTABLE MESS WON THE PRESIDENCY LIKELY DUE TO FAKE NEWS??? I think that's the larger narrative of the fake news story, and hey, it's coming up as a news story in wake of the election which just happened.
0 nickiter 2016-12-06
Because there's fake news everywhere, and they were looking for explanations of why trump won.
9 djklbd 2016-12-06
I'm so glad you posted this, because people have to understand this "opposition" to pizzagate isn't real organic skepticism...It's all manufactured CTR.
This story is so damaging that they are pulling out all the stops and throwing everything but the kitchen sink at us. Just remember to be mindful when dealing with trolls.
Massively downvote them, and either ignore them or refute their stupid arguments in short, simple sentences. Don't antagonize, don't encourage. Just blow them off essentially, do not let them control the climate of comments on this sub.
33 -Teekey- 2016-12-06
Seems a bit ridiculous to assume every person arguing against Pizzagate is a shill, considering how much attention it's starting to get, and how many posts about it are getting to /r/all.
4 magnora7 2016-12-06
Most people against it are just incredulous with a "This doesn't seem possible" kind of attitude. If someone's main argument against it is "I doubt they'd be able/willing to do something like this" then they're just naive. It's definitely possible. The only question is if it's actually happening.
7 -Teekey- 2016-12-06
Whether you want to admit it or not, a lot of the Pizzagate theory requires some assumptions and leaps in logic. Not everyone is willing to make that jump without more than just coincidences.
Remember the daycare ordeal? Boston Bomber? Things like that make a lot of people adverse to just making assumptions or speculating because these sorts of situations have spun out of control before.
So yes, there are a lot of people trying to debunk or outright dismiss Pizzagate that aren't shills.
2 magnora7 2016-12-06
I never said anyone was a shill. I am just talking about regular people.
2 -Teekey- 2016-12-06
So am I, for the most part. A lot of people, even those that would consider themselves skeptics, are starting to be more cautious in their claims - and worried about how far online forums take conspiracy theories simply because how irresponsible people have been in the past.
5 nickiter 2016-12-06
My argument against is that the evidence people have circulated is exaggerated, misleading, misinterpreted, and still doesn't prove a damn thing other than that some people like shitty edgelord art.
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
I think your emotions are getting in the way of your logic, if you actually look at the full list of circumstantial evidence that has been revealed. I'm not saying it's true for sure, but to dismiss it entirely is just... I can't do it. As much as I'd like to. There's just too many things. There needs to be an investigation
3 Bianfuxia 2016-12-06
Or how about "there's no actual evidence to support any of these theories and suspicions, but maybe if some evidence is found I'll consider what you are saying" as a main argument?
0 magnora7 2016-12-06
There's enough evidence to open an investigation, that much is clear.
2 Bianfuxia 2016-12-06
No there isn't or an investigation would be open already. Please show me some of this supposed evidence and make sure it's from a (at least somewhat) credible source. Reddit comments and 4 chan screenshots aren't evidence, if they are then the real Boston bombers are still on the loose
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
That's a silly assumption and you know it.
The fact there was a terrorist thing right outside comet pizza and the media won't shut up about it is pretty damning, considering the timing. Also the extremely uniform "fake news" thing that came out right when pizzagate did. There's so many circumstantial things, like the podesta wikileaks coded language emails, and the giant basement, and the 3 restaurants with known pedo logos all right next to each other, and the comet pizza owner being named #49 most powerful in GQ... lots of circumstantial stuff. Especially if you connect it to Epstein and the Lolita Express, and Bill Clinton. Enough to warrant an investigation, that's for sure.
But of course the three letter agencies are in on it, and use the pedo stuff as blackmail, so they're trying to keep the public from finding out or else they lose that blackmail power over those high-level elected politicians. If it does come out in an official way and there is an investigation and some people go down, it's going to be very surgical and only certain specific people will get thrown under the bus. Seems like Podesta and maybe a few others, but then the Clintons and many others who participated will walk away and the media will exclusively blame it on podesta. I think that's how they'll do damage control.
But seeing as this seems to be international, and several very high-level rings have been broken up and the those people arrested, in other countries. I think they'll use this as a way to globally "trim the fat" and get rid of high-level political people they don't like. After all, they never let a disaster go to waste. But the real power structure will remain intact and generally untouched, unless most people move beyond the narratives provided by the media, which is owned by that very power structure and thus will never betray it.
What do you think?
2 Bianfuxia 2016-12-06
Seems like you are rambling without providing any evidence. You know like pizza existed before the fucked up internet slang term "cheese pizza" popped up. Pizza is a food people eat. Have you eaten pizza?
Calm down man. I don't doubt that there are high level pedophiles in the government at all I just think that you and everyone else is going down the wrong rabbit hole here. Like the incorrect one, that's making you appear unhinged. I would not be surprised if evidence came out about it in the near future I just don't think pizza gate and harassing pizza restaurants is going to actually lead anywhere.
Imagine just for a second these restaurants don't have anything to do with pedophilia at all besides the accusations, how do you think you'd feel if you were an owner? Scared and mortified and weirded out? Nothing good I would imagine.
30 dentistshatehim 2016-12-06
I think pizza gate rests on shaky logic and massive jumps in reason. I guess I'm a shill. Yesterday I was saying that it was getting dangerous how much people believed it and bam, today gunman. I guess I must be part of the false flag effort.
I should mention I've received threats including a death threat for questioning pizza gate. That's what this sub has become. It's a believe this or else sub.
Edit: wrong worded
4 djklbd 2016-12-06
Perhaps you could walk us through the various elements of the investigation that you found shaky?
Which parts of the investigation did you find faulty? Can you explain to me each piece of evidence you found to be lacking, and WHY you found it to be lacking? Do you propose another potential explaination for all of this?
I think it's fair that if you are going to stand in solidarity and deny something, especially on a forum where well over 85% of us are in support of this investigation, you should explain why.
Let me also say that nobody on this forum has ever heard of any sort of death threats, nor has a death threat or a violent proposition of any kind been brought about. Now i'm starting to think you're making that up...
If you have any more wild claims, at least have the decency to provide proof. Why should we just take your word?
14 dentistshatehim 2016-12-06
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2OrX0U4qwTM
It would take me hours to debunk everything but by bit. The video above does a good job.
Regarding the death threat I don't really know how to prove it. It's in my comments and a screen shot would have to much personal information embedded. I'm hoping not to get doxxed tonight. But your right it kind of sucks without proof however would you even believe it if you saw it?
I can say this, I've been on r/conspiracy for about five years. I change accounts every few years to keep the personal information low. Never have I seen what is going on now. Ever since the lead up to the election it feels like this place has been co opted by the right. If anything I believe this is where the real conspiracy lies. The right wingers co opting of r/conspiracy. With all that is going on the main focus is on this pizza gate thing and I think it's sad.
2 djklbd 2016-12-06
Thats interesting, because the mainstream media is also saying pizzagate is a dangerous "alt right" conspiracy motivated movement..
And you just so happen to agree with that sentiment. Wow, ya know thats just the damndest coincidence...
Get some sleep...We'll see you guys again tomorrow.
24 ramonycajones 2016-12-06
"Wow, multiple different people agree on a unified truth. How suspicious."
And you think this level of reasoning is piecing together an "investigation" into a big global conspiracy. This is pathetic.
Edit for politeness
8 djklbd 2016-12-06
"Wow, multiple different people agree on a unified truth. How suspicious.
Indeed they do. Millions of people around the world agree on the unified truth that some of the worlds most prominent world leaders and elite members of society are involved in profiteering from and participating in human trafficking. And you owe it to yourself to research what we've presented it in it's entirety before brushing it off as a whacky theory as you so close mindedly have...
Hell, even the RTFrance is covering pizzagate now...
https://francais.rt.com/international/29919-tweet-dandrew-breitbart-alimente-theories-reseau-pedophile-washington
When all of this does finally come out, you're going to look like an idiot, dude....Why are you so aggressively against this notion? This is a conspiracy forum, no? Why do you shoot down independent investigation and free thought instead of encouraging it? It's not too late, if you do want to go over some of the information regarding pizzagate together sometime, feel free to PM me.
We're non-partisan and honestly man, the more people we can get on our side, the better.
8 ramonycajones 2016-12-06
No.
RT! Well I'm glad a reputable organization that absolutely hasn't spent the last year effectively disseminating propaganda to Americans is backing this /s.
1) Because it's led to death threats, and now a guy walking into a restaurant with a gun based off of it. It's not innocent conjecture, it's dangerously delusional. If someone gets killed because of this, you are partially responsible for spreading this shit. 2) Because it's just the tip of the iceberg of the crazy shit that I think is coming. There's been a surge in fake news and propaganda lately, and Trump and his supporters are all-in supporting it. I'm afraid that it's going to get way worse before it gets any better - attacks on random-ass people like this, attacks on Muslims, on Mexicans, whatever. We're entering a scary time right now and pizzagate seems to be a taste of what's to come in terms conspiracy theories empowered by a truth-averse president and effective Russian propaganda.
This is not a joke, this is not innocent questioning, this is serious shit. I doubt you'll care or be convinced by anything, but at least I hope you realize that the majority of people who care at all feel the way I feel about this and are concerned about people getting hurt based on ridiculous conspiracies.
7 djklbd 2016-12-06
"No."
Ahh, what a fantastic and well thought out rebuttal...You showed me.
Dude, in the rest of your post you are literally echoing the talking points that mainstream media has conjured up over the past few days in regard to pizzagate. "Fake News" "Propoganda" "Trump and the conservtives behind it"...yada yada
We've heard it all before, and we are already HIGHLY suspicious that yesterday's "shooting" was a false flag event used to ruin the credibility of our movement. You're on /r/conspiracy echoing mainstream media talk points, do you honestly think you're going to convince anybody here that hocus-pocus holds any legitimate meaning ? Nobody here trusts the mainstream media and nobody here is promoting violence against anyone at Comet Ping Pong. Why are you even here ?
6 ramonycajones 2016-12-06
Morbidly curious, I guess.
Best of luck.
1 djklbd 2016-12-06
Indeed, to you as well.
5 dentistshatehim 2016-12-06
I just realized your one of the assholes that sent me a threatening message. You made it seem like you had my mothers phone number to threaten me to stop talking.
Shame on you buddy. Your as bad as the people you think you are up against.
2 nickiter 2016-12-06
Do you have evidence of anyone here being a shill other than that they disagree?
0 XDark_XSteel 2016-12-06
Accusing every single person against their stance and encouraging everyone of the same mind to completely block their arguments and downvote them into oblivion. That really should be grounds for ban.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
0 XDark_XSteel 2016-12-06
But a lot of the people who come into the thread do.
Edit: just actually looked at the context of my comment. It would have been better to say that the person I specifically replied to was doing that. I had gotten a lot of replies in this post, and forgot which threads some comments were in.
7 Ninjakick666 2016-12-06
It wouldn't sound so dumb if they just dropped the "term" pizzagate... cause if it really is the biggest conspiracy in history... pizza has so little to do with it.
14 ig-Pay-atin-Lay 2016-12-06
Spend 30min actually looking into it
3 magnora7 2016-12-06
This guy exists to do the opposite, he's made his presence well known in this subreddit, his goals are clear every time he posts
-5 Ninjakick666 2016-12-06
I've spent dozens and dozens of hours... I'm so far ahead of the curve that you guys can't keep up... and the pizza angle is such a very small fraction of what is going down.
7 ajcunningham55 2016-12-06
Publish this research on the sub for all to see. It's hard stuff to find good information about.
-1 Ninjakick666 2016-12-06
Go over to voat and look up the "culinary diplomat" program HRC started as Secretary of the State... or what restaurateurs Trump recently kicked out of his buildings... or even "Pizza Pipeline" if you wanna stay on the pizza tunnel vision.
5 ig-Pay-atin-Lay 2016-12-06
Human trafficking is real Children abduction is real People getting away with it is real
Yet, ironically they are STILL getting away with it! How are they doing it?
Is it a super exclusive club? Yes Do they want to expand their base? Yes Are they old perverts that think they can overpower their opposition? Yes
The bottom line of "this" is to bury the perverts deeper and smoke out the losers that protect them.
Pizza is a clear cover, smoke them out. The angle you see needs more attention.
5 Ninjakick666 2016-12-06
Anyone that is serious about this does their homework behind the scenes and slips it off the FBI tip line... anyone researching this in broad daylight is only tipping off the guilty that they are being investigated.
5 ig-Pay-atin-Lay 2016-12-06
Logical reply in every channel but here. Pizza is code for a secret. Dig it up, smoke it out. FBI was founded by the most controversial figure in American history... hell he probably liked and invented the term pizza.
1 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
No, 4chan invented that term. FBI actually busts pedos and pedo rings unlike you people who read shit on 4chan and think you've accomplished something.
4 djklbd 2016-12-06
If the FBI was actually doing their job, we wouldn't have to be taking it on ourselves to do an independent investigation. They fucked up, we have to pick up the slack.
Ignoring even the slightest chance that these people are harming kids is stupid and selfish. It really is that simple.
14 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
8 Ninjakick666 2016-12-06
Easy to remember? "Oh noes! I forgot my conspiracy! What was I worried about? Was it Bigfoot? Nope... shit... I should have given it a catchier name!"
9 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
4 SkankHunt_34 2016-12-06
And everyone knows about Watergate, so pizzagate I think is a fitting name.
9 Ninjakick666 2016-12-06
Tell me what you know about Watergate... No Googling! I'll know if you do! No Secrets Allowed!
4 djklbd 2016-12-06
Look, if you're just here to antagonize, than don't bother posting. We are dedicated to having a constructive discussion about pizzagate here, don't distract us.
8 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
Where is the proof that they used these as code to cover their sick activities??? All I've seen is people on 4chan saying that it's code and acting like the result makes sense when they substitute the words in an e-mail. They might actually just be talking about food!
5 djklbd 2016-12-06
"Hi John, The realtor found a handkerchief (I think it has a map that seems pizza-related. Is it yours?"
Thats one of the Podesta emails...
Sure, they're talking about food buddy.... C'mon dude, do your research. PM me sometime if you want to go over any of the information together. The more people we can reach, the better.
3 Scubetrolis 2016-12-06
They do have handkerchiefs with a similar design that could be a considered a "pizza map." The other person stated it was black and white...
https://www.etsy.com/listing/398560521/new-york-city-map-pocket-square-brooklyn?ref=market
Do you think that could be what they were talking about, or something similar?
2 magnora7 2016-12-06
The wikileaks podesta emails? "Would I play dominos better on pizza or cheese?" how does that make any sense unless you assume it's codewords?
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
I guess it does, reading the email completely. I'll be retiring that talking point now that I've read the actual email carefully
0 DaneGleesac 2016-12-06
Yes but you're using context, that's not allowed when proving this person is eating little boys and girls. Or playing dominoes on them. I'm not really sure
1 podesta_the_molesta 2016-12-06
1 ajcunningham55 2016-12-06
Everyone just started connecting every pizza related term that was used to pedo activity without a shred of actual implications
2 djklbd 2016-12-06
Wut?
-1 Injectortape 2016-12-06
Even when the email references were just being picked up and talked about someone floated the term pizzagate, and I remember there was immediate opposition, people said they wanted something "with teeth" but once r/pizzagate sub was made it exploded and now it's basically permanent. I agree though, the fact that it's called pizzagate is half the reason those first individuals started going to cpp and stirring up trouble. Probably best if that hadn't happened.
4 ig-Pay-atin-Lay 2016-12-06
Questioning things are why anyone exists. Ask questions! Demand answers! Don't budge till they do, that is the truest way to representative freedom.
6 MrCarcosa 2016-12-06
I'm astounded how many upvotes this post has gotten. The notion that people dismissing a conspiracy theory is definite shilling is denial at it's highest. Some people disagree with you. They think this whole thing is bullshit. I'm one of them. Get over it.
Dismissing people's views in this way only serves to put you in a bubble from which you can't escape. How can anyone who can't see both sides of an argument ever hope to find the truth?
Edit: Maybe part of the reason people are posting more about this is because a guy with a gun walked into the restaurant. Whether you think this thing is true or not, you can see how people might empathise with all those staff and waitresses fearing they were about to be shot.
6 rapcrap187 2016-12-06
Listen I don't deny that theres kiddie porn rings all over but whats the smoking gun here? The best evidence for a probably cause investigation was the twisted extremely twisted looking twitter posts. All of which are gone (I'm assuming they were never real considering how easy it is to photoshop stuff/Looking at the actual posts on jimmycomets twitter they aren't even close to the things on the wordpress) But yea.....if you guys actually have any real evidence to share besides a triangle piece of pizza looks like a triangle kiddy toucher logo that would be cool to see. (Yes I know about that one weird podesta email but was there any others?)
3 TheMadBonger 2016-12-06
https://sli.mg/a/gaffhM -Instragram photos for those wanting to see them.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1463959 Actual sourced evidence based on crowd sourced information, and will be continually updated with new information.
6 youdoitimbusy 2016-12-06
Look guys. I'm not saying I believe in this at all, but if there ever was one thing that made me stop and question it, it happened yesterday. The one witness they had on CNN, was way suspect. If you ever see a witness to any crime. They never try to push an agenda, but this guy was the opposite. He didn't try to just describe what happened. He was very adamant about not only defending the pizza place, but condemning those investigating it. He appeared to be way to knowledgeable about things to be a random witness. Until he started name dropping people yesterday, I had never heard of the individuals actually pressing this theory.
I have never seen "the perfect witness", but that's what was presented to me yesterday. He seemed way to "good" to be true. Go back and watch the initial footage of this guy on CNN it crazy.
1 niakarad 2016-12-06
Didn't he name drop the wrong people though? the msm(where he would have got his information from) is giving more credit to alex jones and fake news blogs instead of the actual source, 4chan and reddit. I'm sure if you're even a semi regular there you would know the full msm story and feel pretty awful/adamant about it because of how it's hurting an innocent person/business you know
1 youdoitimbusy 2016-12-06
An individual with a "platform" is an easier target. Plus, why would you want to drive traffic to an ongoing interactive discussion. Its easier to say "he" is the problem, while simultaneously warning him to back off. Now if something does happen, there is someone to blame, not a nameless faceless community. He has taken a stance if you will. He could easily say this is all crazy.
1 niakarad 2016-12-06
Sure I get that its a better target, but I mean, theres nothing about what the guy being interviewed said that i saw that was more on the nose than if he had just been following MSM coverage of it(and knew to look because he is near the place/goes there) So your interpretation could be true, I'm just saying that his behavior is completely understandable to me if you believed there was a whole bunch of hokum being whipped up that might have just put your family in danger and hurt the community for no reason. (wouldn't it have been more perfect to throw some anti muslim stuff in there too given who the guy was! heh)
1 youdoitimbusy 2016-12-06
That's not normal behavior. At no time did he ever state the individual in question ever stated anything to him about pizzagate. He said he walked in and went straight to the back, I thought he was a security guard. Then he says that an employee grabbed him and told him to get out because it was a gunman.
There are only two potential reasons for this individual to even bring up pizzagate. 1. He felt the need to reinforce the statements made by CNN, or 2. He had prior knowledge of said incident and was a plant. I'm not saying he was a plant, however it doesn't give the said news agency any credibility to have a "whiteness" to a crime discussing his stance on a fringe conspiracy. They only asked him what happened, then allowed him to rant on uninterrupted. He made every effort to defend this pizza place, and bash this theory. It was way outside the norm of a whiteness statement.
If I were describing an incident I had just witnessed, and there was mention of something weird going on, I would make every effort to indicate that I did here him say X Y Z or I didn't here him say anything about X Y Z. Thats not what happened. He not only agreed with said narrative, he reinforced it without hearing first hand why this guy was there at all. That doesn't seem strange to you? How come CNN never asked him how he heard the guy was there because of said conspiracy? At no point did they ask him how he knew this was pizzagate involved. At no point did he seem surprised when they reported it was pizzagate involved. Did the police tell him? How come he didn't state the police told him? It was very out of the norm if you ask me. I'm not saying he was a plant, maybe CNN was just looking for someone to back up their stance, but it was out of the norm.
5 BransonOnTheInternet 2016-12-06
Just look at the post I put up last night. Its been overwhelmed by people decrying and attacking everyone who's dared to say anything. Its disgusting.
-2 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
Disagreeing with you is disgusting? What do you want? Censorship? Only opinions that you approve of?
5 BransonOnTheInternet 2016-12-06
Nope. I don't want attacks over simply asking questions. In have always expressed a desire against censorship. Nice try though.
0 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
What attacks are you referring to then? Counterarguments are not attacks.
2 BransonOnTheInternet 2016-12-06
Well, how about where i have been told to die in a fire. Or where I have been told to take my life. Or called a terrorist for daring to have an opinion. Or the people filling my inbox with some of the most hateful and disgusting things I have ever read. These aren't differences of opinions these are sick shit that the people who claim to be decrying the violecnce are pushing. It's gross and entirely uncalled for.
I get it people are upset about what has happened, but that is no reason for the attacks that are being thrown towards people on this sub. It's gotten entirely out of hand.
2 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
You think that it's shills telling you to die in a fire? We all get hateful comments like that. But I'm not delusional enough to think that they are paid shills. Reddit is hateful enough on its own.
1 BransonOnTheInternet 2016-12-06
I never said it was fucking shills. I said simply that these are the messages I have been getting, period. I am well aware of how hateful reddit can be. If you can't learn to read, then please, leave me the fuck alone.
And sorry if I seem a bit on edge, but after a day filled with some of the most vile shit I have ever read I am on fucking edge. I get people are upset about what happened, but that is no excuse for some of the things that have been said towards users of this sub. It's disgusting, uncalled for, and completely out of line. If people have a difference of opinion that is fine, but there is a way to express that without instigating or calling for violence. Especially considering what has happened. It's disgusting.
2 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
Sorry you got called hateful names. That sucks. I disagree with pizzagate and all I get is ad hominem.
2 BransonOnTheInternet 2016-12-06
It's not the hateful names I care about, I wouldn't give a fuck about that. It's the straight death threats that bother me; even though it's the internet and this is to be expected. I wouldn't expect it from people claiming to be doing so because they are against violence. That level of hypocrisy is what bothers me.
And cool, disagree, that's your right. I would never begrudge you that. If whatever evidence, or lack there of, that comes out makes you think so then there's nothing wrong with that. There's only a problem when you start responding to such with violence or that type of thing. You get what I mean? There's nothing wrong with open discussion from both sides, nor should there be.
Like you seem like a stable dude. But some people, not so much.
edit: Dude or Dudet. I don't want to assume one way or another.
1 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
Thanks man. Good luck out there.
2 BransonOnTheInternet 2016-12-06
You as well.
5 Aarno4412 2016-12-06
https://np.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/comments/5gqmbi/comet_ping_pong_hires_crisis_management_firm/?compact=true
1 NutritionResearch 2016-12-06
Removed. Do you have another link?
1 Aarno4412 2016-12-06
https://www.reddit.com/user/Nicefind_v_pizzagate/
4 Lo0seR 2016-12-06
This is one of those situations where I really think that a majority know it's real regardless of the heavy handed shillism going on, shudder to think of the next reality bomb we'll be blindsided with.
4 gromthebomb 2016-12-06
The entire news outlets are saying that this whole pizza gate thing is fake and was distributed by fake news outlets. I just want to know in a short summary: what makes it true? Or just link me to an article that's from a credible source. Thank you :)
13 Kadrik 2016-12-06
FYI, 4chan is definitely not a credible source.
4 gromthebomb 2016-12-06
Thanks for the constructive comment.
7 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
I mean, that's about the closest thing you'll get. It's all tinfoil bullshit made by people that think Hillary is the devil.
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
It has way more to do with Podesta than Hillary
-1 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
Well yeah; that doesn't change the fact that around 99 percent of the people that spew this bullshit are hardcore Trump supporters, who have an inherent hatred for Hillary.
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
Not really... that's just a number you made up. This is a bi-partisan issue
-1 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
Okay. Well the fact that this stemmed from /pol/ and has literally no evidence to back it up should prove to any sane person that it's complete bullshit. But whatever. And I haven't seen a democrat spout this shit... I've only seen it on T_D and other alt right publications, as well as info wars. The beacon of truth... 🤔
2 magnora7 2016-12-06
You're pretty misinformed and partisan if this is honestly how you think....
3 gromthebomb 2016-12-06
No one has provided any proof yet so I'll just assume it's fake.
4 Ecocrexis 2016-12-06
I am more against the rabid, unthinking, demented people that pizzagate has brought out.
Aluminium deflector beanie on but what if pizzagate is actually an attempt to discredit the anti-establishment movement by having people go nuts and crazy like i see a lot of you doing.
4 Xelnasspeedy 2016-12-06
Ive been called a shill for asking for long bullet point posts to be sourced.
Still waiting on the explanation on why pizza equals little girls
2 Dawterofliberty 2016-12-06
At one point I think I found some of the definitions on urban dictionary (early in the pizzagate investigations.) these are allegedly what all these code words mean:
“hotdog” = boy “pizza” = girl “cheese” = little girl “pasta” = little boy “ice cream” = male prostitute “walnut” = person of color “map” = semen “sauce” = orgy
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 Dawterofliberty 2016-12-06
Really? I found two, old definitions for Pasta listed equating it to sex. Perhaps not the exact definition being shown here but either you didn't look, or you lie. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=pasta
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 Dawterofliberty 2016-12-06
It's not equal, but it is related.
1 Dawterofliberty 2016-12-06
It's a known pedophile code the FBI has been aware of for some time, and some where there was a wikileak FBI report with these code words listed. I may have it saved somewhere but there is literally so much info out there (& I have saved) it's hard to find again. I know I read it straight from an FBI wikileak tho. If I find it again I'll try to post it.
1 niakarad 2016-12-06
If i recall, the source was a "fbi anon" on 4chan, not wikileaks, you may have more luck finding it that way.
1 Dawterofliberty 2016-12-06
https://file.wikileaks.org/file/FBI-pedophile-symbols.pdf
1 Dawterofliberty 2016-12-06
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/the-disturbing-disgusting-pedophile-code-hidden-in-the-john-podesta-emails_112016
1 Dawterofliberty 2016-12-06
I'm still trying to find a source that is more than just someone posting a list or a jpeg in their blog. http://www.thelastamericanvagabond.com/conspiracy/13-essential-data-points-pizzagate-pedophilia-allegations/
4 autopornbot 2016-12-06
More like flooded with T_D retards.
*sorry I won't be available to comment after 5pm, CTR doesn't pay overtime since Hillary lost.
4 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
The term FAKE NEWS is the newest buzzword or term being weaponized. It is similar to calling someone racist, homophobe, Misoginist etc.
It's all meant to silence discussion and discredit opposing opinions.
3 SadisticDD 2016-12-06
The truth is all I want, and yet it's almost impossible to get it on the most important things in life. Such a shame that lies and cover ups dominate what the majority of the population on earth receive.
3 JustWantingTheTruth 2016-12-06
Best example is my current post on r/conspiracy. Right in the post I say that what I'm presenting isn't much in the way of evidence, but serves to keep pizzagate in our minds and mouths, and I get baseless opposition when all I'm asking is for the right to ASK QUESTIONS.
This is misinformation at its best, they're trying to kill it at the roots before it spreads.
6 DrDougExeter 2016-12-06
If it is a solid theory backed with evidence it would stand on it's own two feet and not need people spamming bullshit constantly to keep anyone interested.
2 magnora7 2016-12-06
Maybe shills are spamming bullshit to muddy the waters of real discussion
1 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
Yeah, all those stupid people questioning you. Maybe you need a safe space where you can discuss bullshit conspiracy theories without anyone questioning the official narrative. The irony.
4 djklbd 2016-12-06
Ignoring even the slightest chance that these people are harming kids is stupid and selfish. It really is that simple.
3 DoYouBooBooDoYou 2016-12-06
PizzaGate if True is a HUGE Story.
The bigger story and issue that should be of most concern is the strong arm selling of Fake News.
Fake News tactic is a groundswell that cuts the very fiber of this country. Step 1. is selling fake news. 2. discrediting any opposing view by saying fake news (its like the new racist). 3 bye bye 1st amendment
1 Chicagodivemaster 2016-12-06
First amendment =/= protection from criticism.
3 shadowofashadow 2016-12-06
Remember, there is a wikileaks email about Obama flying in $65000 worth of hot dogs and pizza for a white house event. This goes to the VERY top.
1 morbidexpression 2016-12-06
how much do you think it costs to cater a big White House event and fly people and a shitload of fresh food out from Chicago? $200 and a Greyhound ticket? Get real.
2 nottheoretical 2016-12-06
At least most of them are captain obvious about it.
2 spezzingout 2016-12-06
I'm not worried about the shills who pop in to mock it. I'm worried about the ones that have been around the whole time, the ones that injected blatantly false narratives into what I'll call the "evidence pool" and then, with the other shills, managed to upvote it and include it in these short summaries of pizzagate. It's a carefully crafted plan to throw people off of the scent.
To give an example, look at evidence summaries including the alleged podesta sketches. That right there, for anyone familiar with the story and also how there's absolutely no evidence putting them there at the time, makes it easy to dismiss everyone. I submit that everyone sharing it as part of the evidence is, in fact, someone who infiltrated the investigation to discredit it from the inside.
I'm also not entirely sure I disagree with Alex Jones more recent statement. The refusal to spend any time crafting alternative interpretations of the original evidence is not helping either, and it may well be the biggest false flag operation among us. I think there's an entirely different conspiracy to be found among the actual investigation pieces themselves, one of carefully planted individuals with carefully crafted narratives.
Of course, I'll be downvoted because dissent is not allowed in the pizzagate conversation. It's controlled by infiltrators who need to bury reason and massively upvote the tainted "evidence summaries."
2 Jerrymoviefan3 2016-12-06
I stopped going to Comet Ping Pong when the two for one Tuesday discount was no longer applied to sex with all ages of kids. They started applying the toddler surcharge to both kids.
2 CriminalMacabre 2016-12-06
This already sound like fascist propaganda, seriously.
2 kudeism 2016-12-06
More like this thread has been infiltrated by shills from the Donald.
2 stealthboy 2016-12-06
Every story I've seen in the MSM call it a "fake election conspiracy story" within the first few sentences.
2 LisaDawnn 2016-12-06
PizzaGate hasn't even begun to hit the fan. By the time this gets deeper, don't be surprised if some media moguls aren't involved in it as well....hence the blatant put-down and disregard on their networks or in their headlines.
Julian Assange must have known how explosive this can of worms was going to be and how it would impact some of the biggest names around. So he's either never coming out of hiding or........they already got him. I do think it's one extreme or the other.
But as much as we would love to see all these high profile perverts arrested, let's hope it's not too late to save some of their victims.
2 OGmojo 2016-12-06
It only means you are on the right path, and they are trying to prevent further exploration down the rabbit hole. Because this is barely scratching the surface.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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2 NeedHelpWithExcel 2016-12-06
Believing Pizzagate is worse than thinking we never landed on the moon, or believing in chem-trails.
Sorry
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
You were already on a final warning for rule 10, goodbye.
2 andr50 2016-12-06
There's more evidence we didn't land on the moon than anything about PG.
It's not a false flag, it's not shills. It's stupid.
2 Rosssauced 2016-12-06
What ever happened to seeking a RICO investigation on the Clinton foundation?
I wouldn't be surprised to find in 30 years that Pizza was a diversion to keep the cabal safe by lumping those that want to investigate the elite for financial crime with those that want to investigate whether or not they are moloch worshiping pedos.
They are making conspiracy theorist a dirty word again and that is harmful to the cause and community.
2 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
I am so appalled at the inferiority complexes in this subreddit. You so badly want to be in the spotlight and important that you MUST make a narrative that has you as some kind of internet warrior, heroically battling a shadow. Please provide prove the code words are legitimate. That would be the first place to start.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
I can explain most of them. Honestly, there's a video that makes it pretty clear. I'll leave it here and also give my own take. Thanks for the kind response I appear douchy but I really just like to speak on logical grounds. Appreciate the comment.
Lemme see, first one- she is a person that receives Christmas packages for Podesta yearly. Just got a different box this year (instead of pasta and sauce, he sent her cheeses this time). What's pedophile code about it? That whole "I think you should give notice..." is an obvious joke if you don't see it from that POV. Think about it, she was acting like it was super official and important when it was a cheese box. I think that's called...humor.
Lmao, not pedophilic at all, unless you are already thinking it is. They're KIDS. KIDS ARE INTERESTING AND ENTERTAINING TO HANG OUT WITH AND MAKE FUN OF. That's entertainment, not fucking them for Christ's sake. They're adults talking like adults about children. Classic confirmation bias.
The box that was referenced in the first quote is the one they're talking about now. I guess they would play dominos on the pasta boxes, but now they have a cheese box so she was again being facetious about the box an playing dominos. Last year they played dominos or something, look through the context emails.
That's just an unfortunate phrasing. I still don't think it is proof of anything. Probably just an innuendo...again, pretty disgusting if you already were looking at it from that side of the equation.
This one is kinda hard to know, it seemed like a typo. But in the emails there are actually two people asking him about the handkerchief. On one they called it black and white, on the other they make a weird typo possibly? I don't know for sure or something, but I think that I would say it's more likely they mistyped (maybe) "pizza-related mark"? I feel like that's one that is really hard to say one way or the other. But to think it's code, is a little much. Look through the rest of the emails, do they use pizza weirdly again and again? It doesn't seem so, it seems like it was just a one-time weird thing. I mean, most all of them were just ordering pizza for an event, or asking if someone wants to go eat pizza. David Seaman seriously used "wanna go get pizza for an hour?" as evidence for code language. PLEASE!!!!!! NOOO!!!!! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO COMPUTE.
Sure, that's true that that symbol was on Besta Pizza's (not Comet's) logo for a second. It was changed almost immediately it seems like, it was the logo you see on google maps, not on their website anymore. It wasn't changed post-pizzagate either. Just seems like they realized the concentric triangles were already taken LOL.
1 messengerofthesea 2016-12-06
I figure if we've got our tinfoil hats on already, then take a step back and look at the big picture.
Ever since that guy drew a gun on comet ping pong, I've been thinking what would that accomplish. And its clear. Set the stage to ban "fake news".
I don't know whether there's real child exploitation or not, but what is pretty clear is that anything deemed fake news is going to be considered dangerous and outlawed soon.
Full media control, followed by the loss of net neutrality. Theyve got the people in power that could pull it off, they're just testing the waters. Give it a few months, a "fake news" story is going to end with someone dead. No one will believe it was staged. We've been crying things have been staged since sandy hook. We're the internet that cried wolf now.
Edit: since jfk and the moon landing, actually.
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
The response by the media alone has mostly convinced me it's real. They wouldn't react like this is if it were smoke and mirrors. The shooting or whatever outside the pizza place is so obviously a distraction to keep people away from the main story.
1 detcadder 2016-12-06
If its true they won't be able to stop it. Its already too late for that. They can still get away with it, but the cats out of the bag. Look to the Catholic Church having a generations long pedophilia crisis being covered up at the highest levels. They weren't able to stop that. When it came down to the truth or the Pope the Pope got sent packing.
Anyway, it looks like there was consensus to lock down all media to an approved narrative after the election. Hillary may have fallen, but they are going on without her. I don't think they can do it without the presidency, congress is worthless, the courts are too slow. These things always fail even if they did have the power to do it, its a fools errand.
1 Dissidentt 2016-12-06
All Pizzagate needs is a video, like Loose Change, to help summarize some of the confirmed facts (not speculation). Call the video "Cheese Pizza" instead of Loose Change.
2 niakarad 2016-12-06
Are there any confirmed facts? any facts that would be incriminating turned out to be not true or with no sources, all there is related to comet pizza is "this art is weird" "this guy has weird stuff on his instagram" (the latter being very subjective since most people not looking at it through a pedo lens would view it that way) and that people talk about food too much in emails(and stratfor and podesta emails are being 100% conflated in peoples heads)
1 KingJames19 2016-12-06
You shills are way too obvious. You know this sub has never behaved this way right? To come in here and say "hurr durr, you guys are stupid" is the reason you all stick out like a sore thumb. How about you all join in and actually debunk pizzagate with reason and documentation to back it up?
1 UhOhPoopedIt 2016-12-06
I noticed that in here, about one day after the election was over, they started suppressing it hard all over the web. Leading up to election day, it was all about suppressing the Podesta emails and anything relating to the private email server. The day after elections, the whole web seemed like it took a breath and went back to the way it was a solid several years ago. Then the very next day, everyone was back to suppress anything having to do with this story. It was astonishing to behold how coordinated it was, and continues to be. There are some powerful people with very deep pockets behind this. I wonder if it's a full-on govt. backed thing, because it certainly seems that way, but the govt. can't be that efficient and coordinated, can it?
1 mbeasy 2016-12-06
I bet the bombshell Assange was sitting on was related to this and is why he dissapeared, they pretend he is still in the embassy because they violated so many international diplomatic relations picking him up that it's easier to just pretend nothing happened
1 ADPNova 2016-12-06
To those shilling who immediately discredit/attack layers on layers of evidence in the possibility of what might be the most sick disturbing conspiracy yet, should look in the mirror and ask themselves if they really wanna be kept with strings over their limbs. Think of it as your child as one of the thousands that go mysteriously missing yearly without a shred of leadway to what might have happened to them, would you still choose to be a puppet to tptb?
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
Just to be clear, are you calling the infiltration of /r/conspiracy one of the biggest conspiracies in history?
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
Removed (all comments). Only warning for comment spamming.
1 markevens 2016-12-06
What about the conspiracy that George Soros is funding people to shill on /r/conspiracy?
1 samsc2 2016-12-06
Well one of the biggest things to do is to stop calling the shit that's being investigated "conspiracies" because that does the work for them. Calling anything that might be true a conspiracy just discredits itself because of people's cultivated view of people and their opinions who happen to be labeled conspiracy theorists or similar. Basic psyops.
1 HabitualSmoker5 2016-12-06
People are making account just for this topic. It's insane
1 Nevrend 2016-12-06
It still doesn't make sense to me if he had a fully loaded assault rifle he fired 2 shots and just gave up?
1 AtomicSky 2016-12-06
Not sure if OP is the one who made the video but after watching the video and many others that have come out recently. I have to say that many of these rant videos get way to personal. NO one is going to win over any minds talking like this. You have to drop the ego and get the info out there if someone attacks you, you don't attack back. Give evidence, make your stand and don't get personally. This attitude is the reason why people don't take things like this seriously. This is an EXTREMELY sensitive subject, treat it that way. Don't witch hunt, counter personal attacks with facts. That's how you get taken seriously
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
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1 AtomicSky 2016-12-06
I'm not offended, its the way he goes off on the person telling them to "fuck off". To me its not a great way to win people over. There is a way to present information and not call someone a "fucking idiot."I think what he is saying in important, its the way its being said that make people not want to believe him
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
2 AtomicSky 2016-12-06
I totally agree with you, in my option more people will listen if the info is presented with a more level head. "Catch more flies with honey" kinda things. BUT that's just my thoughts.
1 Piethecorner 2016-12-06
You know I would bet the ultimate truth about what is really going would be so astoundingly fucked, perverted, and dirty even us at this point would be shocked to hear about it. This shit is institutionalized in some way shape or form and the institutions are shitting themselves trying to prevent any knowledge of it from coming to light. So in the spirit of our forebears, keep pushing along lads. Only a few more summits and we're there.
1 therealmerloc 2016-12-06
its funny the topic of this thread is about the rampant overpopulation of shills and how to deal with them yet all of you are actively engaged in their tactics.
learn to spot a shill
1 Garmin-ham 2016-12-06
This is not normal..
These people are sick Hollywood satinist wackos
How can anyone discredit this Maria Abramovic spirit cooking party Pizzagate is not going away anytime soon
Just look at these 60 pics from an ocult gala
https://sli.mg/a/mdv0hG
1 eu01 2016-12-06
Does anyone here read Vigilant Citizen? They had a pretty good article on the pizzagate "investigation" but when I went to look for it today the article no longer exists...
0 mrgrippa 2016-12-06
Go back and read the mainstream articles notice how none of them mentions John Podesta by name, only "Hillary Clinton's Campaign Manager". Seems very suspicious to me.
0 riggedreality 2016-12-06
guys what is the possibility it is a psy op from the get go i think they wanted it to come out. alefentis is the 49th most powerful man in DC.. why do you think that is. they just called in a favor that he owed them. although it is hard to say if they are scrambling to cover it up or they have been planning it all for awhile. perhaps a two pronged attack. normalize people with paedophilia and censor our free speech even more.
8 soul_shakedown_party 2016-12-06
The claim comes from this silly GQ magazine photo collage. He's right behind a pitcher for the "Washington Nationals". Wow, that's real power. http://www.gq.com/gallery/50-most-powerful-people-in-washington-dc#49
47 Stephen Strasburg Pitcher, Washington Nationals
***downvoted for truth. Mob mentality.
PS, I'd never heard of the Washington Nationals before an hour ago.
3 Tiresias3000 2016-12-06
How many times did he go to the Obama Whitehouse? He's clearly connected in very high places...
3 soul_shakedown_party 2016-12-06
This is why pizzagate believers are suddenly against a wall. Anyone who shows proof for silly claims gets ignored.
Most people living and working in DC within walking distance, tend to visit the white house on occasion. Did you know you could also? Write your senator prior though with your date, and blammo, you can visit there as well. Show me a link to an article describing his WH visits? You may be thinking of Podesta, who has had close meetings with the Obama WH on many occasions.
6 ArchonFall4All 2016-12-06
This shows you haven't actually looked at the evidence. First of all, Alefantis has a picture with Obama in the WH at an event where they're playing ping pong. Or you can just look at the White House visitor logs. You don't meet the POTUS by writing to your representative for a WH tour
2 soul_shakedown_party 2016-12-06
Looks to me like he visited with the president once, and went maybe as a tourist the other times. You can indeed visit the white house the way I described.
My point was, this "49th most powerful man in DC keeps getting tossed around as if it's real. It's a really stupid photo shoot bullshit article, and Pizzagaters have pointed to it over and over. Take a look. http://www.gq.com/gallery/50-most-powerful-people-in-washington-dc#49
2 magnora7 2016-12-06
It IS real. You just linked to the real link of it. GQ is a huge magazine.
2 soul_shakedown_party 2016-12-06
please look at the link.
2 magnora7 2016-12-06
I did.
2 soul_shakedown_party 2016-12-06
I didn't see an article, am I missing something? It's a photo, with nothing to back it up. #47 on that list is a pitcher, #48 is someone I've never heard of... why isn't it people like Karl Rove, senators..., congresspeople?
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
Karl rove: http://www.gq.com/gallery/50-most-powerful-people-in-washington-dc#13
Tons of them are senators and congresspeople, if you actually look at your own link. You can't just write this off.
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
Okay, go back to sleep. Hopefully you can convince yourself this discussion was just a bad dream and you can stop thinking about it forever so you don't have to feel uncomfortable ever again
1 leila23 2016-12-06
GQ is a huge magazine, but that's not how those lists work. Those lists are pulled together by some journo posting, "Hey DC friends, tell me who is cool!" on FB.
Whomever put that together did so with zero science or methodology. How do I know? I have made these lists my whole career. In fact, I've done similar things for GQ's biggest competitor (I'll let you guess who that is).
1 magnora7 2016-12-06
And why did they settle on this pizza place owner? Because he has a reputation among the powerful? Wonder why that is...
1 leila23 2016-12-06
Because he is a gay man who has a pretty famous venue in the city, which feels like a diversity pick? I mean, he's the only restauranteur on the list, probably because some editor was like, "Where is food/entertaining on here? This feels like a lot of straight white dudes? Etc." (All things I've said myself.) If you look at the article, the authors were all pretty young in their career and then moved on to hit politics beats at traditional pubs. (I actually know Rob Fischer, albeit professionally. Nice kid, is now at Rolling Stone I think.)
1 Scubetrolis 2016-12-06
Not the only restaurant owner on the list
2 leila23 2016-12-06
My mistake. He is certainly a queer nightlife raconteur, from my understanding—and the gay/indie nightlife scene in DC, especially in 2009-2012, was really big and thriving. (I know this because the amount of bands and music that came out of it, and there were all these nightlife blogs that exploded at the same time.)
0 BeheritSyriac 2016-12-06
Could someone fill me in? I'm not from here.
0 bearlegion 2016-12-06
http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/wtf/pizzagate-scandal-trump-team-backed-fake-clinton-childsex-claim-that-led-gunman-to-restaurant/news-story/18c1e20af443928e60140e072933c667
This is on front Page of msm in Australia, not a single article about pizzagate until the "shooting" look how many times they say fake news.
Sorry for link length on mobile and have no idea how to shorten it.
0 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
Only warning for rule 10.
0 sgtpinback 2016-12-06
thank you, jedimindset
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
1 sgtpinback 2016-12-06
tell the truth though your voice shakes.
0 [deleted] 2016-12-06
lol, r/conspiracy has jumped the shark thanks der trumpf our HEEROOOOOOOOOO
0 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Who are these shills? Who is sponsoring them?
1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
0 dabulls113 2016-12-06
Who is they? Serious question.
0 Muffinmurdurer 2016-12-06
It's just a bunch of bullcrap though.
0 alvarezg 2016-12-06
Nothing discredits a story more than seeing it in r/conspiracy.
0 some_days_its_dark 2016-12-06
What a coincidence, /r/conspiracy has also been invaded by shills who won't stfu about pizzagate.
I'm all for discussion about this, I'd really like to see something come of it that shakes the establishment to the core, but it is literally over half the posts on the front page and drowning out any other topic.
-1 RedditCensors4Feels 2016-12-06
Even conservative media is trying to label this as fake news.. That is very upsetting.
2 magnora7 2016-12-06
There's definitely enough to warrant an investigation and both the right and left media are completely ignoring it with an air of incredulity ("How ridiculous, this is impossible")
-1 SpartanTank 2016-12-06
I'm tackling someone as we speak. This guy u/talented thinks he has all the answers, and accuses others of not backing up their statements, when he's fucking guilty of doing it himself LOL.
I find it even more suspicious that he's been gifted reddit gold. I don't like accusing someone of shilling, and I have to admit, u/talented makes pseudo-sense, but it feels like he's using a classic red herring argument. He doesn't even address the Madeline McCann case, in which police sketches implicate BOTH the Podestas.
7 talented 2016-12-06
I just responded. You couldn't defend yourself with a plastic dildo.
0 SpartanTank 2016-12-06
Your response reminds me of those 9/11 official story parrots, who think that by debunking the faulty theory of holographic planes, they debunked the 9/11 truth as a whole.
Fear not, I'll pick your argument apart bit by bit and serve it back to you stuffed inside your offered plastic dildo.
3 talented 2016-12-06
I like you. You make me feel like PizzaGate wasn't banned..
Edit: Also, if you were a true conspiracist, you would be demanding and researching both sides of the conspiracy. Not just looking for information that satisfies your conclusion. I asked on /r/pizzagate for information. I guarantee you that there is some good qualified data that speaks volumes about shady shit in washington, but you haven't brought it like they did.
1 SpartanTank 2016-12-06
Then what the fuck are you even doing taking part in this circle-jerk of aggressive skepticism against those investigating Pizzagate?
Alright, time for some clarifications:-
3 talented 2016-12-06
It's not a circlejerk, well not on my part. I have been around. I live my life with heavy skepticism. Though, I have seen poor responses with no references from both sides way too often. I waste so much time reading source material.
James Alefantis - other than being gay, having liberal artsy bands and occult references. Sometimes akin to 90s death metal I used to see. No not really. I haven't seen anything on the guy that made me question whether the dude was a pedo. The picture of a photo of sex in an art gallery is something the guy definitely should not be posting on Instagram. I am sure there are friends who don't appreciate that stuff. Though, some of the guys complaining in this sub about his Instagram have worse shit in their Reddit history. Yes, I do look. I don't accuse them of being pedos.
I am still reading your links in the other post about it. Links I got to say are rather sketch but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. My impression so far is they rented from a famous guy, Sir Clement, who apparently nobody knew was a possible pedo in his youth. He was accused after death and has no way to defend himself. Though, seemingly credible accusation. Still. Regarding the Podesta's and their possible link to the kidnapping. This was cited: http://victuruslibertas.com/2016/11/do-john-and-tony-podesta-have-a-connection-with-missing-child-madeleine-mccann/. But that site has no citations about them actually being there. "One of our FBI insiders can confirmed the Intelligence community indicates John and Tony Podesta were in Praia da Luz, Portugal on May 3rd 2007– the day Madaline McCann vanished." I mean a sketch site and no references to this FBI anon. I have seen that over the years too often to trust a random person to claim it. I half have the urge to look for a source but I don't want to waste my time.
I do think $65,000 is possible to spend on Hot Dogs and Pizza. The white House apparently can't bring in outside food, so they fly in Chef's to cater specific things. I imagine between setting up a party, hiring a chef and staff, and procuring the specific items that those chefs need. Yeah, I do. My friends spent $30000+ on an engagement dinner party here in California. Nothing about it surprises me.
The handkerchief map reference is a relatively odd but there are handkerchief maps to restaurants. Whether it is code, the link you sent essentially states it is just Gay code. They are liberal, I doubt they need code. I mean look at the public discussions they had. I also don't care about them being gay. How does it connect to pedophilia? The only supposed connection was the 4chan troll comment about made-up code words. I have asked to see actual historical usage from people who have tried to link it. I haven't seen it. Whether that specific thing was we will never know, but John's convo was casual and it was thrown away.
I was promised a pedo ring. I didn't get it. Though, I am sure there are pedo's in Washington. I mean every country has had the problem with people in power taking advantage of youth. I also fail to see people arguing pizzagate forget that a lot of child trafficking has been an evangelical movement to save the children around the world for decades. A lot of it legal but also illegal. Schemes in which unsavory people have taken advantage of. Which is why we have so many adoption laws in this country.
-1 Bing_bot 2016-12-06
Yeah, even my OLD post from over TWO weeks ago https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5er6mz/i_wasnt_buying_the_pizzagate_but_the_fact_that_a/ had 5 NEW comments in the past 2 days, ALL of them posting trolling bullshit how the earth is flat and that pizzagate is the same as the moon made out of cheese, that type of RETARDED PROPAGANDA!
I don't know how owns these shills, but they are RETARDED if they think their tactics actually work, if anything they help us!
-1 samsongoliath16 2016-12-06
The Rothschild KM then create an illegal taxation System in America:
The KM put an illegal, Unconstitutional tax system in place, in order to make sure that Americans would have to pay for high-level USG spending, approved by a bought-off, crooked Congress and Presidential puppets, put in place by corrupt KM campaign finance.
It is easy for the KM to garner enough money to elect anyone they want, because when you control a bank that is a secret major counterfeiter, you have all the money made for you that you desire. At about the same time that they created their illegal tax system in America, they also bribed members of Congress to approve the Internal Revenue Service, which is their private collection agency incorporated in Puerto Rico.
Soon afterwards, they set up the Federal Bureau of Investigation to protect their banksters, to serve their cover-up needs and prevent them from ever being prosecuted for their child sacrifice rituals, pedophile networks; and to also serve as a covert Intel operation on their behalf.
Note that the FBI has no official charter, according to the Library of Congress, and has no right to exist or issue paychecks.
-1 [deleted] 2016-12-06
the truth of the matter is no one actually knows for sure whether it is true or not. but MSM somehow claims to knows for sure it's fake.
-1 Steewahs 2016-12-06
What about k'nex?
-1 TheSonofLiberty 2016-12-06
Yup
-1 phyrros 2016-12-06
Interesting spin of the narrative. If I would assume that there is a conspiracy and take Laura Silsby into the narrative I'd rather assume that churches all over the US are really big into the child trafficking scheme. And if I take a further hop and ask who promotes weak social services i had to assume that HRC is just a scaregoat for said people. Which btw. now rule congress, senate and the white house.
-1 KiefKong 2016-12-06
All of this panic from the shills and mass media make me feel like Truman must of felt when he tried to escape from the island in the Truman Show
-1 TheMadBonger 2016-12-06
The sticky of all recent sourced and credible evidence on PizzaGate.
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1463959
-try looking at some of the evidence you are discrediting and form an argument, so that you don't look like your just dismissing it without any logical thought process.
Comet ping pong shooter's father is a convicted pedophile
https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1465222
1 TheMadBonger 2016-12-06
Remember guys, if we start acting like a witch hunt we lose the battle and the war. Be smart about this. Kids lives are at stake.
-2 Russianfairy 2016-12-06
Regarding the Oakland fire, the fire battalion woman on the news even said "We're all tired, we just want to go home, eat some pizza, and relax." Who is that specific?
-2 MandelaRabbit 2016-12-06
Find a victim who will speak then you have a case. People are claiming "rape" from photo association & rabbit hole digging that comes with confirmation bias. ( do i disagree it's creepy , no - but it's all theory until bodies / victims are found )
Our generation has lived through Cosby, Penn State, Clinton, and the Catholic Church, Franklin. The unfortunate reality is that until victims can be found or speak up - it's just a theory.
-2 epakai 2016-12-06
The solution is to stop upvoting shit to r/all. Conspiracy theories aren't going to be accepted by the mainstream.
-2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[removed]
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
Removed, warning for rule 10.
-2 unruly_mattress 2016-12-06
Pizzagate has been opposed the most because it's the silliest and most ridiculous the conspiracy community has bestowed on us so far.
3 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
So you admit that you're not a valid member of the community? Maybe you're a member of the topminds community? Maybe you're a ban evader?
Maybe I should just ban you to be on the safe side?
2 unruly_mattress 2016-12-06
That's up to you.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
You could at least make an effort to deny it :/
2 unruly_mattress 2016-12-06
I'm not part of the topminds community because I dislike the idea of ridiculing people for their beliefs. If they're malicious, that's different, but over there they're making fun of people who clearly have mental issues and attribute mental illness to people who simply have weird opinions. That's also why I don't post there. I'm not a ban evader because I've never been banned.
If you want to ban me, I can't stop you. I won't lose sleep over it nor create a new account.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
You've historically made 2 comments to topminds, one celebrating their 20,000 subscribers so I assume you at least lurk enough to think the growth of a brigading hate sub is a good thing. It certainly belies your claim.
I was more interested that you clearly see yourself as seperate and apparently superior to conspiracists and wonder what you get out of coming here and dismissing our regular users beliefs?
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1 unruly_mattress 2016-12-06
I read many subreddits. I also made a joke. Note that a "X subscribers" post isn't ridiculing anyone, and I wasn't ridiculing any one person in my comment, I made a joke about pizzagate. IIRC the other comment I made there was arguing with a holocaust denier.
I don't dismiss anyone's beliefs unless it's malicious. You can disagree with someone without dismissing their beliefs. Pizzagate is a bit of an odd one since in this one the gap between strength of evidence and the certainty with which it's believed is overwhelming. With 9/11 conspiracies and such there are reports and historical information you can discuss. With pizzagate there is absolutely nothing to show, and yet all the headlines in this subreddit are "we must keep pushing this forward" and any dissenting opinion is just assumed to be a paid shill.
Conspiracies exist, that's why I care in the first place, and you won't uncover a single one of them if you waste all your efforts chasing misinformation and things that aren't there. This subreddit is woefully short on critical thinking. This is me calling out a troll by EnoughTrumpSpam that got upvoted to 1700.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
On that I agree, I won't dismiss it out of hand as there's some interesting points there, and a wealth of evidence for elite paedo rings too, but much stronger evidence is needed before I'll entirely believe it in that instance.
I also actually do believe that a few 'tame' skeptics are a well needed addition here to balance out the few users who believe things at face value despite a lack of meaningful data but, if I didn't remind them to stay respectful or attempt to hunt out topmind infiltrators I wouldn't be doing my job as a mod here IMO.
2 unruly_mattress 2016-12-06
I agree that saying that something is wrong should be done with respect, since everything should be said with respect. I know that I wasn't particularly respectful about pizzagate, because it's a huge joke. I've been respectful in the past and will continue to do so.
It should be obvious that it's always allowed and encouraged to point out that something is wrong. If you only have a few users who're willing to do that, you don't have enough.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
We only have a few users willing to be skeptical within the framework of the rules, you're still here as you understand that and act accordingly. We'd have many more if they didn't eventually lose their temper and go off on the userbase.
2 unruly_mattress 2016-12-06
My own personal experience is that it's hard to respect people's opinions when one of their opinions is that you're paid to lie by the Mossad, JIDF, CTR, George Soros and/or big pharma.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
Ah, but what if you are!!!1! /s
The problem is that kind of thing does actually happen, but as it's near impossible to tell who might be a 'sponsored' opinion without seeing a paycheck calling out people simply for disagreeing with your beliefs, or just being a 'normie', doesn't help anything or anyone. Hence rule 10.
2 unruly_mattress 2016-12-06
Hah, and I guess that if people cared more about what's true and what isn't we wouldn't have had this problem in the first place.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
That works both ways though, a lot of what we are told is basically untrue and only protects the rights and interests of the wealthy and powerful. Kinda makes it hard to believe authority when it's fallback position is 'lies, lies and damn lies'.
1 Oxford89 2016-12-06
Sorry, I couldn't help but look into your post history too. Anyway, if reddit wants to remain a place where you can sign up without confirming your identity then yeah I suppose that you're right, en masse it's hard to know who is paid and who is not. But if you think about it rationally, the percentage of people being paid by some organization will always be extremely small in the face of the rest of us normal ass people who spend way too much of their free time here. If you factor that into you're thinking it becomes pretty clear that there are just a shit ton of people in this world with strong and differing opinions. Doesn't mean we are being paid by the man.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
Absolutely fine by me man.
Undoubtedly, which is why it's necessary to extra vigilant when dealing with users we don't immediately recognise arguing for censorship on a sub that absolutely abhors 'curating' by moderators. It's not our place to dictate what is acceptable to believe if a user speaks their mind within the framework of the rules.
I may not always agree with them, I very often don't, but I have absolutely no right to dictate acceptable topics or act in a censorious manner due to personal biases.
This to me is everything wrong with the vast majority of reddit.
1 Oxford89 2016-12-06
That's all fair and for the most part I agree with you. In my original message I tried to acknowledge that it's a difficult proposition. But what happens when this sub becomes /r/pizzagate2 and not /r/conspiracy? There has to be some limit if we want to retain our identity and not be overrun and singularly focused.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
So yesterday? Hehe.
There's always going to be an obsession of the month on any popular sub, the problems mainly occur when you're a controversial sub discussing issues that are taboo almost everywhere else. Somebodies going to get offended, sometimes it's me too but them's the breaks.
1 Oxford89 2016-12-06
I do want to be clear that I'm not offended. It's more that I'm worried we could become the next breeding ground for this group. That would lead to dilution of quality in this sub and take the focus away from general conspiracies. Not to mention, it could lead to heavy policing from the admins like we have seen elsewhere. But at the end of the day it's y'alls sub to moderate, so I respect where you stand. Cheers.
2 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
We're just continuing the sub's long established position of non-censorship unless directly ordered otherwise, we're working with the admins already to fight PI exposure and outright stupidity (they've suspended a few accounts already) taking over and the majority of really questionable behaviour is happening over on the voat page. Take care man.
-2 Raksso 2016-12-06
OP is a shill who is pretending to agree with a conspiracy and intentionally circulates false information or acts totally insane in an effort to discredit said conspiracy.
2 [deleted] 2016-12-06
[deleted]
2 Raksso 2016-12-06
I guess the intentionally part is not correct and thats why you are not a shill.
-4 Putin_loves_cats 2016-12-06
Just another day in paradise.
6 djklbd 2016-12-06
Lol, this is the first time I've seen a shill actually promote a blatant lie. Guys are desperate now, eh?
Look at my post history, it's filled with promotion of anti-violence for this cause. We can't promote a violent mentality on this sub or we will get banned.
Let the record show that user "parachronic" is blatant CTR.
EDIT: Somebody document this with a screenshot, this is a perfect example of CTR we could use this as an example for a portfolio or something.
10 Fistlegs 2016-12-06
Wow. You need to get fired that was way too obvious.
17 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
I take it you don't have any evidence then?
86 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
The longer this incubates without progressing anywhere the longer they will have to implement their draconian damage control tactics. I think it's a race against time. Big Brother is anxious to embrace us all.
0 Cotecozonia 2016-12-06
What attacks are you referring to then? Counterarguments are not attacks.
-1 magnora7 2016-12-06
Also the amount it's true, because ridiculous nonsense is ignored all the time. However this is not being ignored
-1 d3rr 2016-12-06
Edit: My bad. I shan't mess with someone sending people over to Voat.
-1 KonyInTheHouse 2016-12-06
Okay. Well the fact that this stemmed from /pol/ and has literally no evidence to back it up should prove to any sane person that it's complete bullshit. But whatever. And I haven't seen a democrat spout this shit... I've only seen it on T_D and other alt right publications, as well as info wars. The beacon of truth... 🤔
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
No definitely not, I'm just saying it'd be an easy way for them to stop the accusations.
I'd sure do it.
4 fdajj 2016-12-06
Which numerous references?
I don't know their lives, but if someone accused me of pedophilia I would think they were insane and would ignore them unless they were threatening me. Arguing with crazy is a lost cause.
4 TheDeadManWalks 2016-12-06
And you wonder why no one takes r/conspiracy seriously...
19 djklbd 2016-12-06
Yea it seems too rushed and desperate. You can tell there wasn't extreme caution exercised with this one...
82 TheMotoManiac 2016-12-06
I haven't involved myself in pizza gate at all. Or researched much of anything. But when I read the "The Washington Post" article about the pizza gate "shooter", and saw it try to mix in the buzzword "fake news" when it didn't really make sense, I saw how hard they're pushing that narrative. They are pushing fake news really hard...
11 phyrros 2016-12-06
baseless ? Why? Because you don't belive in it? Read it up and you might realize that you've been played.
Just stand both stories side-by-side compare all facts unbaised and ask yourself why you have been chasing a rather weak (in terms of proof) story while the other has played almost no role...
2 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Same horrendous topic doesn't make it the "same narrative". I commend you on your grasp of history but it's foolish to use that as sole reason to call pizzagate a political strategy.
9 RDay 2016-12-06
I mentally tag everyone espousing that line of thinking. That way you can make mental note of who is on which side of freedom.
And I physically tag shills on reddit, too. It helps keeping up with the game, when you have a scorecard.
7 RDay 2016-12-06
The fact you are heavily downvoted validates your position.
3 RDay 2016-12-06
Do you really read white power forums?
Bullshit.
1 phyrros 2016-12-06
I do. For the simple reason that it is probably the world view I get the least.
I read the forums because i don't wanna lose the ability to talk to those people. Democracy means giving everyone a voice and listening to every reason - regardless of how utterly despicable it might be.
12 moparornocar 2016-12-06
I think they mean when they ID'd a dead kid as one of the shooters and got his name plastered all over MSM.
-1 shug7272 2016-12-06
I have dug into the story and found only laughable shit. Its funny that instead of just stating facts that support your claim, facts that would be hard to ignore you just yell shill. You cant state the facts that support your claim because there are no facts, it is all a bunch of cobbled together hearsay. Please correct me if I am wrong by just laying out the facts in manner that does not include name calling or require me to jump to a bunch of conclusions. Stop acting like you have proof and everyone is ignoring it, everyone is ignoring you because you have NO proof of what you are spouting.
4 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
No harm? People are harassing the business and now going there with guns all over a controversy that lacks substantial critical thinking.
I'm a scientist. If I treated my science like this level of investigation, I'd be torn apart. Shit, I've been torn apart for less. There is zero investigative rigor. Simple Google searches have been sufficient to discredit the wild claims made supporting pizzagate.
2 leila23 2016-12-06
No, that doesn't. They let people into their facility daily, they have people who work there who are being threatened who haven't come forward. On one hand, this must be extremely horrifying, and since they have had to call the police, I'm sure the place has been thoroughly checked (also by the health department, which I would look in to if I took these claims seriously...but that's where I would start as a journalist).
Also, you cannot "have" the NYT do anything. I think one of the reasons people defend it so staunchly in liberal media is exactly the reasons I've laid out: We've been covering Marina/Louise for years, we have read the evidence of the emails and the Instagrams, and we don't see anything?
6 ScoopSuave 2016-12-06
And harassed his family
22 hibuddha 2016-12-06
And people brigading stupid-as-shit posts.
How does this have so many fucking upvotes? The title itself is hyperbolic garbage.
3 goddagedit 2016-12-06
You'll see.
3 silenteye 2016-12-06
Exactly. I tend to enjoy reading conspiracy theories and seeing if they seem credible, but this satanic pizza ritual stuff is American Horror Story material.
1 PleadingtheYiff 2016-12-06
Of course, there will likely not be a smoking gun revealed until January at the very earliest when the administration changes.
Ironically, yes she did do this before. She tried to take 40 children out of the country prior to her arrest and was told not to do this without proper permits. This email shows she was driving around Haiti with a bus, snatching kids off the street:
https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/3741
In regards to the other questions, I have not looked into that and would have to do further research.
Lots of companies went through the state approval process to violate the law and engage in corruption. Getting the veneer of state approval is important if you are going to have a proper cover story so that questions are not asked. Just look at the long paper trail of donations which were made to the Clintons from companies who immediately received economic exemptions upon giving money. The State Department was staffed at top levels with people who were either Clinton cronies or were still actually employed at the Clinton Foundation simultaneously which is also blatantly illegal.
Clinton was stupid and never thought she was going to be caught for this stuff. Otherwise she wouldn't have been keeping her emails on an unsecured personal server in the first place. She just assumed she wasn't going to get burned for this.
7 hibuddha 2016-12-06
Yeah, CTR has become like the invisible hand of the communists here. As soon as someone starts talking logically, the McCarthyist scare tactics come out.
I saw someone jump straight to accusing someone of inciting violence at rallies yesterday. For having an opinion on Pizzagate. It's insane.
1 IntellisaurDinoAlien 2016-12-06
Removed (all comments). Only warning for comment spamming.
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1 unruly_mattress 2016-12-06
I read many subreddits. I also made a joke. Note that a "X subscribers" post isn't ridiculing anyone, and I wasn't ridiculing any one person in my comment, I made a joke about pizzagate. IIRC the other comment I made there was arguing with a holocaust denier.
I don't dismiss anyone's beliefs unless it's malicious. You can disagree with someone without dismissing their beliefs. Pizzagate is a bit of an odd one since in this one the gap between strength of evidence and the certainty with which it's believed is overwhelming. With 9/11 conspiracies and such there are reports and historical information you can discuss. With pizzagate there is absolutely nothing to show, and yet all the headlines in this subreddit are "we must keep pushing this forward" and any dissenting opinion is just assumed to be a paid shill.
Conspiracies exist, that's why I care in the first place, and you won't uncover a single one of them if you waste all your efforts chasing misinformation and things that aren't there. This subreddit is woefully short on critical thinking. This is me calling out a troll by EnoughTrumpSpam that got upvoted to 1700.
1 BigSphinx 2016-12-06
Yes. Obviously not everyone, but that IS how it started, and the discussion is on subs like hillaryforprison.
I don't see how that speculation is relevant but, okay, be my guest.
1 RerollFFS 2016-12-06
Open a book, ffs lol
1 cantsay 2016-12-06
a child porn book? no thanks
1 Oxford89 2016-12-06
That's all fair and for the most part I agree with you. In my original message I tried to acknowledge that it's a difficult proposition. But what happens when this sub becomes /r/pizzagate2 and not /r/conspiracy? There has to be some limit if we want to retain our identity and not be overrun and singularly focused.
2 AtomicSky 2016-12-06
I totally agree with you, in my option more people will listen if the info is presented with a more level head. "Catch more flies with honey" kinda things. BUT that's just my thoughts.
0 jasdevism 2016-12-06
sounding exactly like the 'gaters. Apologies if you do intend to, it is your right and privilege.
1 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
Oh god, really?... You know you don't have any evidence so you go "hey get a load of this guy who loves pedos". What I love is due process and the notion of requiring evidence to prove something. I'm sorry you can't understand those very simple concepts and feel it necessary to take the low-road but I'm not really surprised..
0 DrauglinRog 2016-12-06
"enough circumstantial evidence"
slow clap
I can see now I'm dealing with a keen mind. So that's all you got, is it? lol k..
0 MichaelAmbrosi 2016-12-06
DON'T NEED TO PROVE WHEN YOU ARE THE ONES CLAIMING INSANE THINGS BASED ON CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE, Suspected Pedophile /u/inbetweentime. See how it works? Now you're suspected. I'll ask again, cause i responded to lots of people, what's the proof of the code? I thought David Seaman said it was "well-known pedophile code" ...if it's so well-known where's the proof. I am actively asking in every possible place I can and nobody knows the answer. I'll help: IT ISN'T PEDOPHILE CODE, NOR IS THERE PROOF THOSE WORDS ARE CODE
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Reading the report, an anonymous caller was concerned when two men wearing suits and ties were supervising 6 children who were "dirty and unkempt". It turned out they were covered in bug bites, incredibly dirty, not bathed for several days, and many of the children were not wearing underwear. Furthermore, their van clearly appeared like the 2 men and 6 children were living inside--they were arrested for child abuse charges and slapped with felonies upon further investigation. This goes far beyond a man simply walking with his child in public. Curiously, this is the only information I can find about the alleged Finders cult. How do we know if this a cover up? The link you sent me came from a site dedicated to Ted Gunderson, who earnestly believed in conspiracies range from the US being responsible for the 1993 WTC bombing, the US setting up the Oklahoma City bombing, Satanic Ritual Abuse, and the NWO.
Because the allegations have to be reasonable for an appropriate investigation. So far, nobody has found the allegations to be reasonable outside of niche internet communities. The real question is, why? Why do you think nobody from the local police to the FBI have bothered to investigate this issue if there is clear probable cause? I can surmise why, but let's get to that later.
This is akin to the dangerous argument, "why do you care about privacy if you have nothing to hide?" Edward Snowden, whom I have a great deal of respect for and yearn for a pardon, leaked classified documents regarding the US government's mass surveillance on US citizens. Why should we care about what the NSA does if we have nothing to hide?
Imagine you are driving on the interstate to go your favorite concert. You have no open container of alcohol in your car and no drugs. However, you borrowed a DVD from your friend and accidentally left it in the car, the DVD is Half Baked. The officer asks where you are going, you tell him a concert. He immediately notices the Half Baked DVD box and becomes suspicious that you may be harboring marijuana in your vehicle. He asks you if he can search your car. What do you say? If you say no. He bothers you further, and tells you, "if I just do a quick search of your vehicle, you can go about your day and make it to your concert in a timely manner without having to worry about parking. If you have nothing to hide, this will be quick." Would you agree to those terms?
Can you verify that millions of dollars are being spent to discredit pizzagate and attack people partaking in the internet investigation?
Andrew Breitbart
Tweet in question.. Breitbart determined that Podesta was part of a mass coverup of child sex trafficking rings Planned Parenthood (PP) and ACORN. PP had several undercover investigations by LiveAction to demonstrate PP supports and aids sex traffickers trying to get services for their underaged prostitutes. In all but one case, authorities were alerted regarding these sex traffickers. prior to LiveAction releasing videos, but with a notable exception. PP fired that woman for her actions. ACORN was also implicated in sex trafficking of minors by O'Keefe, but was cleared of wrongdoing after several investigations due to O'Keefe's artistic license and lying regarding his heavily edited videos. Breitbart earnestly believed the O'Keefe documentary, however, the raw footage from the ACORN videos presented an entirely different picture than what they painted. As it turns out, according to California's Attorney General documents, Vera (the interviewee of ACORN) reported the situation to authorities. (read pages 16 and 17 of this document to save yourself some time). So Breitbart was accusing Podesta of covering up unsubstantiated sex trafficking supported by Planned Parenthood and ACORN.
Breitbart's death. His death really came at no surprise to anybody. Prior to his death, he already had a history with heart problems, having suffered a heart attack before. Additionally, further rumors came out to support that foul play was going on with the death of coroner Michael Cormier. I am anticipating that I would get this as a followup response. Cormier did not perform the autopsy of Breitbart.
Monica Petersen
If we believe Monica Petersen's friend, and I don't see why we shouldn't, she certainly was critical of the Clinton Foundation. Petersen, however, was not in Haiti to investigate the Clinton Foundation nor child trafficking. While the reference I linked is critical of pizzagate and comes from Washington Post, they are citing the chief director of her employer, Claude d’Estree of the Human Trafficking Center. The Human Trafficking Center has an unfavorable opinion of those making allegations that she was murdered.
I found a rather questionable article referencing a person speaking for Petersen that's rather damning for the Clinton Foundation. I cannot find this information anywhere else, and therefore cannot determine the validity of it as a result.
Additionally, I cannot find anything stating that Petersen's family thinks she was murdered. Could you provide some references for me?
Max Spiers
Max Spiers was, indeed, an interesting character. His main interest seemed to be investigating UFOs and the paranormal. People have speculated that his research into UFOs is what led to his demise.
Max Spiers' death may not be surprising considering he had an opiate addiction, according to his mother. He struggled with addiction, although he may have been clean for a long period of time. But as anyone knows, when opiate users relapse, they often overdose by taking the dose they used to take prior to being clean. This may have been the case of what happened to my cousin with heroin, or it may have been more likely that my cousin died from badly cut heroin. Spiers suffered from headaches and vomited black blood, which sounds like intestinal bleeding. Someone posted on an opiates subreddit explaining the same issues of headaches and black vomit from three days of opiate tea use. Here is Spiers' last interview, he is clearly slurring his words and unable to speak articulately.
Was he investigating pedophilia? In the interview, I think he did mention something about child abuse, but I didn't listen to the entire thing because he's difficult to understand (like Ozzy Osbourne levels). The only other sources I could find on his investigations regarding pedophilia are from very sketchy tabloid websites like The Daily Mail and The Sun, and many websites I've never heard of before that clearly post similarly alarming content.
Government pedophilia
Yes, shit like this does happen more than we'd like to admit. Although we can't say nothing is done about these situations.
The Catholic church certainly has its sordid history with child sex abuse. But we're still speculating that Hillary Clinton is involved. Perhaps we could even argue that there is another conspiracy that all of these allegations exist to bring down the Clinton, and in conjunction, the Democratic bid for 2016. Republicans have been after the Clintons for decades, with the only thing that stuck to Bill Clinton was his affair with Monica Lewinsky, where he lied under oath. Hillary Clinton has been tagged with a number of scandals in an attempt to bring her down, which, ultimately, ended up wildly successful for Republicans. So perhaps this pizzagate scandal was engineered as high up as the upper echelons of the GOP, implanted in the hypervigilant /pol/ chan communities to rile up the alt- and new-right emerging base.
1 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
I wrote a lengthy post, it got flagged for one of my links not having an np, and shows up deleted. Hopefully I can repost it later or something, or you can check my post history, it should still show up there.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Thanks, will read it on your profile.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
Wow, it's long and right off the bat you start by trying to just discredit my sources. Terrific...
Next is your privacy comment...well guess what, places that serve food to the public aren't exactly privy to the same kind as you enjoy.
Your critique of Brietbart is that his claims were unsubstantiated... really missing the point there that his claims are relevant to pizzagate. Not to mention they tie in David Brock (think CTR, Hillary Clinton)
Monica Petersen - you can do a search on this sub if you're interested. What her friends and family are saying is vastly different from the washington post. Funny you discredit former FBI agent Gunderson while most of your links are from MSM publications that are known liars.
Spiers - you couldn't understand him? how is that a relevant argument..
And Hillary is innocent because scandals have been made up about her in the past... ok
Well you sure seem eager to deny what's right in front of you. Most of your reasoning is laughable, to me. Feels like I'm wasting my time take care.
B+ for effort
D- for research and logic
0 analyticallysurreal 2016-12-06
Yeah, we are. You pretty much believe absolutely everything you read outside of the MSM, and I'm skeptical and thoughtful of any piece of information that comes my way.
1 inbetweentime 2016-12-06
You have very much shown that to be false. I hopelessly urge you to reassess how 'skeptical and thoughtful' you are, only for your own good. I'm not invested in you.