Let me ask this... If there is a ring of people in the highest levels of government torturing and sexually abusing children, why isn't everyone freaking out? Why is the media not climbing all over this, potentially the biggest news story of all time? Why have we allowed previous situations to be swept under the carpet (Call boy scandal and DoD porn scandal)? Where is the outrage and fury we all should be feeling? It's not like we don't have evidence of a systemic problem in Washington, but for some reason we all allow the people charged with guiding and protecting us to commit one of the greatest crimes against our children over and over and over again. Why?

This is a fantastic reply, and thank you for writing it, even though the truth of it depresses the hell out of me.

Personally I try to red-pill as many people as I can on a one to one basis but it's really difficult breaking through the cognitive dissonance when you have to open the discussion with "Did you hear about the rampant child molestation in Washington and the media and banks and government establishment is in on it..... Wait... Where are you going?..."

im listening

desperate to hear even one reputable source for this

i dont doubt for a minute that the rich and powerful fuck who they want when they want to

but none of you so far have provided any proof other than speculative, fringe blogger opinions

who started "pizza gate"?

when this whole sub is taken over by this theory and skepticism is downvoted...cui bono?

Define "reputable source." If you mean MSM articles acknowledging that their masters are guilty of vile acts against children, that's never gonna happen. People are silenced before they can speak for crimes of this magnitude. Too many big dogs are at risk of going down if only one does.

Unless/until you have someone who runs a MSM outlet who will burn the ship while they are still on it, we won't see anything like this sort of story being published.

(I am neither giving credibility nor denying Pizzagate exists. I am just saying that IF it is to the level it's being touted, then there will be no resolution to it by the powers that be. But, the fact that there are so many accusations floating around, and the MSM isn't even trying to investigate it, makes me think there IS something to those accusations.)

and then we get to the derailment

"whats an actual reputable source?"

well, its a tricky thing to define.

Whats a 'reputable' source in your opinion?

any pizzagate theories that meet your standards? links?

This is pretty much the crux of journalism's problem in general at this point.

We have tons and tons of spin articles (on any number of topics), but we lack the sort of in-depth exposes that commonly existed in the past. Im unsure if this is directly correlated to the internet age and our more disjointed flights of focus, but it nonetheless seems to be the case.

Take for example fantastic exposes like Century of the Self or even Bitter Lake (hosted by the BBC (!) who is just as biased as all the MSM). These are excellent comprehensive pieces that examine evidence over years and attempt to assemble a reasonable theory based on sound standards of journalism.

Your question "any pizzagate theories that meet your standards? links?" is a great question- you cant really. OTOH the MSM is doing the same shit by peddling "fake news" and "debunked" and other dismissive spin sentiments that dont attempt in any way to discredit using sound concepts of debate. Regardless of whether PG is true or not, it is very scary to see standards set so low- when news corporations are peddling "fake news" as a grounds to censor, we have a 1st amendment crisis on our hands.

This is ultimately a systemic problem of journalism today. To paraphrase what someone above mentioned: "news corporations exist to make money- not to reveal the truth necessarily." It used to be that news made money by having a reputation of telling the truth. Now its news making money off clickbait advertising, by supporting candidates favorable to the interests of their corporate owners, and now by attempting to control the narrative of what is or is not fake news.

I find it hard to believe something of this scale would fail to produce witnesses- but beyond that all I'm left with is each side hurling insults at the other, pizzagate-being-true proponents conflating circumstantial evidence to support a narrative, and MSM outlets proposing censorship (!) and peddling empty refutations of "fake news" and "debunked" etc...

What the fuck can I really believe on either side that is substantiated by cold hard fact? All I can really do is be agnostic about the situation. What I can be concerned with is the state of journalism at this point, attacks of the 4th and 1st amendment, power of the executive branch via executive orders, corporate collusion with government, self-censorship sponsored by surveillance, wealth inequality, etc- these are all tangibles I can at least prove.

who started "pizza gate"?

Great question.

My money is on a psy-op specialist firm, ala HB-Gary.

That's a negative.

I know the guy who started it very well and he is a Redditor.

Do tell. He said he started it here?

Yes, he started it here. When he caught win of what was a conspiracy at the time with no investigation behind it, he wanted to think of a name that people could easily understand.

From our conversations, he actually really disliked the "pizzagate name" but it was catchy enough for people to remember.

When he started the subreddit it was mostly just himself and out of nowhere as the child abuse issue started to get uncovered in the wikileaks emails, people instantly flocked over to the pizzagate subreddit.

I was then brought onto mod thereafter to help with the subreddit. It was a LOT of work. More work than any default subreddit moderator. Ever.

It gained so much traction that it was hard to vet new people to become mods in time. We were averaging around 2,000 subscribers a day. Many were there just to break Reddit TOS and get us shut down. Others were there to actually contribute.

Eventually the admins got involved and we followed their rules to the T but apparently that wasn't enough. Meanwhile, we were getting news agencies and journalists PMing is on the daily for interviews and to answer questions.

It was a mess and Reddit wasn't there to back us up unfortunately. Afterwards, we then moved to voat, but the issue there is some anonymous unvetted person created the subreddit before we did. It was a struggle to get us on the mod team but he added us.

Then shit got weird.

Users started noticing the mod remove and censor important information. Following that, we were all demodded.

So now the voat.co pizzagate sub is being modded by a unvetted, unknown, suspicious person.

My hunch is he is a plant or there to sabatoge and keep tabs on people. There was a suspicious character we had to deal with a few times but Im not allowed to really get into that.

Either way, after that, I haven't been apart of any of it other than a bunch of private chat rooms and servers.

I cant say anything bad about being a mod because I was apart of an important investigation to help children.

What I can say was about about the thing as a whole was now other moderators on reddit who belong to other subreddits treat me like shit now because I was a mod for pizzagate.

Pathetic but true.

Being a mod there was the most stuff a mod on reddit could ever do. It made me a VERY seasoned and skilled mod, so there are things to take away from it.

Oh well.

edit: I should mention we also had lawyers and stuff involved too

Thanks for the detailed response. I'll take your word for it that you are telling the truth as far as you know it.

Some points:

When he caught win of what was a conspiracy at the time with no investigation behind it

There's your first mistake, confusing a 'conspiracy' with a 'conspiracy theory'. You guys started out with a foregone conclusion. A conspiracy is a criminal network that has been widely exposed. A conspiracy theory is a viral form of amateur detective work based on suspicions or in some cases misinformation psy-ops.

...he actually really disliked the "pizzagate name" but it was catchy enough for people to remember.

If I am reading this right, he didn't come up with the name itself, just the idea to use it for a subreddit name. Correct?

Because whoever came up with the name was either trolling hard or fucked up hard. Attaching the term "gate" to the end made it politically charged and therefore partisan for Trump (since it attacks and defames Clinton people exclusively). Having the silly 4chan pedo-euphemism "pizza" in the name is just a wink from the trolls who started spreading this with their typical red scribbles on screenshots campaign, IMO.

I cant say anything bad about being a mod because I was apart of an important investigation to help children.

Allegedly. There are no children to speak of with "pizzagate". This is the most convoluted version of "won't someone think of the children!" that I've seen maybe ever.

You were also part of a giant witch-hunt/defamation campaign if looked at from another perspective.

No offense but I think that anyone who willing associated themselves with something called "pizzagate" or /r/PizzaGate, the premise of which consisted of asserting without actionable evidence that an individually identified person is a vile criminal, is a bit foolish regardless of how well-intended their stated motivations, not to mention a bit ethically challenged.

Dude... I was one of the first people he appointed haha I talk to him daily in our slack server.

I understand your doubts but no one else knows what I know besides the other mods

i think its waaay simpler than that

its just a few the-donald types trying manipulate the truth/zeitgeist and this ploy really clicked with the nuts who think obama/clinton are literally "evil"

Could be.

And people directly responsible for mass murder and war crimes, based on what they must know are neocon lies, are most certainly "evil" no matter how you slice it. Obama ordered an airstrike that killed ~40 rural Pakistani villagers on his fourth day in office. Men, women and children.

What do you think of the allegation that the gunman was an actor? I am on board with almost everything you've said, though I lean towards true on the topic.

He's the only extremist so far to come out of the group, so he's a crucial part of the argument to stop the investigation.

I'm just cautioning against claims definitive claims; they're not helping.

We used to have a rule against this very problem in post titles (which is still listed in the side-bar, hypocritically) but it's actively and aggressively not being enforced anymore by the majority of the mod-team. Oh well.

Those of us who know this has been going on for a while

how do you "know"?

eli5 it to me

you dont 'know' anything until you can teach it in your own words

But I'd stake good money on there being dozens of pedophiles or pedophile protectors in Washington.

oh of course there are. 1000 percent agree

but there is not even any plausible, circumstantial evidence for "pizza-gate" (what a stupid fucking name btw) what-so-ever

all there are, are vague emails that people illogically "decipher" to fit their agenda of what they want to believe is happening

Give me an email from your grandma, i can use the same tricks that ive seen the pizzagate trolls use and probably convince weak-minded people that you're grandma is running a pedophile ring.

you people need to wake up and ask who really started this rumor and what do they have to gain by it?

Thats the real conspiracy here...who is trying to turn this sub into nothing but pizzagate? why?

are they really championing abused children?

how much of their bile and determination here comes from political motivation?

Because they are being told not to by their financiers - the msm is incredibly dishonest and if you haven't noticed that they have a major agenda by the way they report the news then you may not ever notice

I think one of the reasons is because it is pretty well acknowledged, and there are likely members of the media complicit. And I completely agree with OP and think this is a great post. But let's afford some nuance and a few acknowledgements to the hypocritical nature of "morality legislation" and taboos vs the reality of the culture.

And don't jump on me saying that I'm being an apologist for pedophilia (or to equate pedofilia with consensual adult sodomy or homosexuality)- that's not even close to what this is. I'm attempting to explore how "the elite" have used sexual taboo to keep us from getting to the bottom of this issue- which is endemic to the system we live in.

I want to address a few key issues pertinent to this concept:

1.) sex and sexuality (including exploitative sex) is a taboo which has been ritualized since classical antiquity in a manner which separates the "elite" initiates and the masses. This includes bacchain rites and pederasty.

2.) slavery is a tradition on which our society was built. it takes many forms, several of which can be referred to as "human trafficking".

3.) the powerful are institutionally corruptible and corrupted (which is not to say that everyone in power is corrupt, or stand as an argument against power structures- only as an acknowledgement and perhaps argument for transparency)

• Gay sex was only effectively legalized nationwide in the US in 2003 with the Supreme Court decision on Lawrence v. Texas. Think about that. 13 years ago, it was illegal and something which could be legally held over the heads of consenting adults- regardless of the fact that gay adults of every class and level of power have been consenting to homosexual sex since the dawn of time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_v._Texas

• Homosexual sex (man on man, man on boy) has been a traditional part (perhaps as an initiation or "education" ritual) of ruling western culture since the civilization our society is built on - Ancient Greece

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty_in_ancient_Greece

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gymnasium_(ancient_Greece)

These sexual relationships were likely a smaller part of the Greek Mystery Cult Rites:

In ancient Greek religion, an orgion (ὄργιον, more commonly in the plural orgia) was an ecstatic form of worship characteristic of some mystery cults.[1] The orgion is in particular a cult ceremony of Dionysos (or Zagreus), celebrated widely in Arcadia, featuring "unrestrained" masked dances by torchlight and animal sacrifice by means of random slashing that evoked the god's own rending and suffering at the hands of the Titans. [2][3] The orgia that explained the role of the Titans in Dionysos's dismemberment were said to have been composed by Onomacritus.[4] Greek art and literature, as well as some patristic texts, indicate that the orgia involved snake handling

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orgia

The Lesser Mysteries took place in the month of Anthesteria under the direction of Athens' archon basileus. In order to qualify for initiation, participants would sacrifice a piglet to Demeter and Persephone, and then ritually purify themselves in the river Illisos. Upon completion of the Lesser Mysteries, participants were deemed mystai ("initiates") worthy of witnessing the Greater Mysteries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman_mysteries

• The man - boy sexual relationship in Ancient Greece was part of a mentor/ mentee tradition which included non-penetrative (intercrural) sex. Also modernly dubbed "Oxford Style" or "Princeton Style" as in the elite tradition still practiced today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercrural_sex

At this point, "Initiates" of orders or mystery cults might be adults, who may act as children in the initiation ritual. Children may also act as symbols (of innocence and purity). Just be careful assigning the literalism.

Next, I'd like to address that "Human Trafficking" applies to a broad definition of people. A Mexican laborer who makes the decision to travel to the US to work without documentation is considered "trafficked", the same way a slave who is taken from the philipines to work in Dubai is, or a ukrainian sex worker is taken by the Russian Mafia to work in new york as a stripper. An indentured servant in Haiti is a human trafficked, and so is a hooker who travels with a group to Alaska during the fishing season to work the docks. If prostitution was legal, many of these conditions would not exist in the way people are abused for financial gain of organized crime.

Do politicians sleep with prostitutes? You bet. The very people that make sure the profession is illegal are taking advantage of it- and it's barely frowned upon. Are there politicians using the cocaine that the drug war profits off of at the expense of large populations? Absolutely.

Powerful people aren't bound to their own laws. Laws are for the people being ruled. Corruption is institutionalized in that way, and the more corruptable, the easier to control- whether through blackmail or the feeding of vice.

Also, if a person is representative of an institution, the corrupt institution (or those within it) may seek to mitigate risk to the institution by covering up indiscretions by its representatives.

Another excellent post, thank you!

I agree or concede with all of the great points you've made. The key difference with everything you've stated above compared to the issue we are examining with pizzagate lays with consent. Our society have moved from being viewed with moral certainty to one consisting more of a spectrum of morality, much of which is based on mutual consent.

The right to free speech was used to be considered absolute, however we now temper and limit it based on defined boundaries. The phrase "your right to freely swing your fist ends at my face" is true with speech. Your right to free speech and expression is limited (by majority social consent) to where it infringes on anothers moral barometer. In places like Germany laws exist to enforce that moral barometer (in the form of hate speech and hate expression laws).

Likewise, sexuality now is governed by consent. Rape was a commonly accepted practice until very recently. In fact a marital rape is still not a criminal act in 48 countries today.

As you said homosexuality was only legalized in 2003, but it still remains illegal in 74 countries today and even punishable by death in some.

Consider that disconnect. Consensual sex by two adults is a crime in more places than marital rape is. Wtf?

Regardless, we in the English speaking west (also including Australia and New Zealand) have collectively accepted that the primary consideration in the legality of sexuality is mutual consent. This is why most forms of sex we consider legal is not governed by moral interpretations of appropriateness (eg. bondage, scat, role play). Those which we consider illegal are restricted by the lack of consent.

We have also accepted that children are unable to provide informed consent until a specific age. Varying by state that age might be 16, 17, or 18.

There are those deemed universally unable to provide consent (mentally disabled, incapacitated) and universally sex with the persons will always be considered rape, unless ruled otherwise on a case by case basis by a court.

Prostitution through human trafficking is form of forced consent and therefore a form of rape. Is consensual prostitution possible and morally acceptable? Of course it is, but the focus of the examination here is prostitution through servitude.

This brings me to the elite's perceived fascination with non-consensual forms of sexual activity. Much of the behavior is likely governed by the drive to attain power. Rape, in many ways, is a expression of power of someone weaker than the perpetrator. Child abuse and torture likewise, are expressions of imposed power.

Finally, ritual is a system of governance of those power expressions. There will always be someone more powerful than another guiding the ritual. There will always be the priest over the alter boy, the bishop guiding the priest, the cardinal, and the pope.

Many of those within the ranks of the "elite" are drawn to it by the power the rank provides over others. Those with enough drive and ruthlessness will always seek the positions we consider "elite" and I suspect many of them happily take part in the abuse and rituals if the end goal is power, even over their own peers.

I think the best analogy I can give to describe this is as such... Remember the US programme 'To Catch a Predator' where they'd set up stings and traps for LOW-LEVEL paedophiles but NEVER, EVER go after or set-up any top predators? Yeah, well that's how it plays out for the most part in the legal system. Just go after the small fish and if a ring ever gets exposed, send in compromised law-enforcement teams in there to secure evidence, provide a narrative and then CONTAIN the investigation so it never goes but so high.

By the way OP, cheers for providing a true, articulate, sincere and civil discussion on this Pizzagate matter. It's a very welcome change that should pull people together towards developing an answer.

I guarantee you that if there were some actual, convincing evidence - like a leaked secret recording of officials talking about abusing kids, or a video, or at least victims or witnesses - people would be freaking out. There isn't any of that.

Yet.

It's not like we don't have evidence of a systemic problem in Washington

link to evidence?

...that isnt a blog post full of speculation?

I'm on mobile so you will have to look all of this up yourself, but check out what info you can find on the "Call Boy Scandal" from 1989 which was whitewashed and scrubbed during the first gulf war. Also look up the scandal of 5000+ DoD personnel caught downloading CP on government issued pay cards. Anderson Cooper discussed it in an interview posted here in the past week. Also whitewashed and the investigation abandoned. Look up the Epstein claims by Virginia Roberts and notice the case files were sealed from public access.

Look up the various Senators and aides caught participating in molesting teenage boys, or downloading CP. There is enough cases throughout the years you should find more than a few.

You may want to argue the term "systemic" and what constitutes "systemic". Personally I feel that a sex scandal breaking every 5-10 years in Washington that involves minors amounts to a systemic problem.

Also remember, the cases we are hearing about are the cases that are broken and the perpetrators are arrested. How many perps are considered "too powerful" or influential to arrest? How many cases have been ignored due to the stature of the offender? Jimmy Savile is a perfect example of this, because he got away with his bullshit for 40(ish) years even though everyone knew about it. Because of his influence and ties to the British crown nobody went after him.

links?

eli5 it to me.

In your own words, with links to what you led you to your opinions and why.

Our elites are capable of some heinous shit and getting away with it...but with how this conspiracy is so laughingly vague, it makes me wonder who is trying (and succeeding?) to lead you by the nose down this path

think of something you know to be bullshit, and apply that same skepticism to this conspiracy

ask yourself what appeals to you about this conspiracy? why do you want to believe its true?

You literally ignored the first sentence I replied with. Wtf? Like how the fuck can I even think you aren't fucking with me when you can't even read the first fuckin sentence. I also supplied you with a reference to Anderson Fucking Cooper from a thread posted within the last 7 days. Like... You have to do zero work, but watch a video, and you're too lazy to even bother with that. So why provide links? It's a waste of my time to sit here and send a bunch of sources to you which you will just fuckin ignore anyways and come back with some other bullshit excuse.

Look buddy, the shit is easy to figure out. Do what I said... Call Boy Scandal, DoD CP scandal (2008), Epstein case.... Dates are 1989, 2006, 2008. Three incidents you can look up and read. Easy.

But you won't. You will sit there and fuckin judge and claim the stories are bullshit or Russian propaganda, or whatever the fuck else the agenda you are running with decides today is the push. Regardless that every MSM source of any repute has stories on ALL of the cases I claim.

I'm not wasting my time spoon feeding you links and working your brain for you, because frankly it's waaaay more fun for me to waste my time pointing out how fucking useless you seem right now.

you learn that "take my ball and go home" sort of debate from SRS or the_donald?

ill make it easy for you

in your own words, what is going on in pizzagate?

why do you think that?

where did you get that information from to base your opinion?

are those sources trustworthy?

this is really day one deductive reasoning here

and not one of you can even attempt it, because around every corner there's logic and reason pointing out "yeah...thats just a blog from some stranger on the net"

you are being played friend.

Do you want to be a "useful idiot" or a free thinker?

Lol, you are totally fuckin with me. I love it.

I see you, in return, learned your research ability from r/politics and r/HillaryClinton. I see you also have found your perspective on reality from those subs too.

It's also apparent you still haven't read my replies to you, or at the very minimum couldn't bother your ass to type something into a search bar.

Keep replying because I could fuck with you all day. It's a little slower at work today so watching you debate yourself in circles is going to be golden.

I'll give you a hint though... if you really really want to stop looking like a jackass how about you actually read my posts, and take my advice, and look a couple of things up? What's even more awesome about that is you don't need to fact check (or cross reference with HillaryClinton.com fact checkers) the source! You can pick the sources you think are valid and only read those. I'm more than happy to discuss everything with you based on your own sources. I'm totally cool with that, because I know the facts.

I know you aren't going to though. I'm just sayin...

Lol, you are totally fuckin with me.

no, im asking you simple questions to back up your beliefs, or to even state clearly what those beliefs are, thats all.

so now you're reacting with anger because you are finding it hard to intelligently do that.

because I know the facts.

what are the facts in your own words?

Read the rest of my comments. You asked what evidence there is of a systemic problem in Washington and I gave you 3 examples to look up. Why are you avoiding doing that? Maybe you have actually looked up the three examples and aren't convinced they are legitimate examples of child abuse possibly?

still asking you what You think the facts are

why are so many of you scared to do this?

you said you know the "facts", explain to me what they are please

Omg do your own research instead of making us waste our time. He just told you what to look up you lazy twat

when doing research you ask for info from people who profess to know about the subject.

Why so angry?

in your own words why do you believe this is happening, and what has been the most damning evidence you've seen?

Everything that i believe in i can eli5 it to you...yet havent found one of you guys that can make an argument that doesnt fall apart when subjected to simple questions

your anger is that sort where you know deep down you dont have a sound argument, so its easier to just kick over the monopoly board and jam your fingers in your ears while screaming insults

sad.

You sound like a whiny little bitch. The shit is everywhere, instead of asking someone to explain it to you, read you idiot. Why do you need some random person to explain the ins and out of a massive sex slave ring. The evidence is available though multiple sources.

Why do you need some random person to explain the ins and out of a massive sex slave ring.

if you're gonna make accusations you have to expect to be asked to back them up

this is basic reasoning here people

...still waiting for one of you to even just tell me what you believed happened in your own words

Finally, I'll end with a risk analysis. If we do nothing, and PG is true, then real children will continue to be hurt. This is perhaps the gravest consequence imaginable. Yet we should also consider what happens if PG does not turn out to be true, or even if it is true but never gets any more hard evidence than it has today. In that case, PG will be seen as vindictive and poorly executed witch hunt. The "victims" in the public eye will be the "falsely" accused. The next time (and there will be a next time) we catch wind of a child abuse ring among the powerful, the ghost of PG will be used to discredit the new investigation. It may be that those accusers are able to use PG to deflect criticism and continue their crimes. That is, in pursuing PG unsuccessfully, we may inadvertently help other abusers get away with abusing children.

You type out this whole paragraph, but don't really do any analysis at all on this point other than paying it lip service:

"what happens if PG does not turn out to be true"

How many lives will have been irreparably shattered in the wake of investigating something that, by your own words, has "no direct physical, testimonial, documentary, or other actionable evidence of a crime"? I'm not just talking about Alefantis (who's name is being dragged through the mud everywhere you look), but all of his staff, bands that have played in his restaurants, owners of businesses in the area, kids who are having their pictures spread across the internet. These people are being accused publicly of the worst crimes imaginable. They are receiving death threats. Their social media accounts are overrun with harassing and threatening statements. Their businesses are being targeted.

You can't put the genie back in the bottle on this one. The damage is already done, and continues to be done.

The horrifically ironic part about this whole fiasco is that the members of this sub have inadvertently become the very thing they hate the most. Remember how (rightfully) aghast everyone was when the Snowden leaks happened? "How DARE the government dig through my personal messages and social media posts! People will be put on lists and accused of crimes based on nothing more than circumstantial evidence! I have a right to my privacy!"

How do you explain the instagram account and comments? I get the op's point but you come off as ignorant of PG

Tarring someone publicly as a child eating pedophile based solely on cherry picked entries from their Instagram account is OK with you?

Widening that awful brush to include all of their staff, other associates, business owners in the area and young children is OK with you? Based on an Instagram account?

I think this kind of irrational mania we're seeing is in large part a result of an entire generation of young people growing up inundated with social media, facebook, 24/7 connectivity and authoritarian surveillance being prevalent. Reality is probably difficult to pinpoint with so much noise in your life. Perhaps reason seems relative when you grow up with every single one of your peers spouting their opinions and biases on the internet every day.

[deleted]

'People who disagree with me are not rational.'

Downvoting is not meant for simple disagreement. Using it that way is bad form.

But they do, so his comment is pretty reasonable, and it's ironic that his comment, which contributed meaningfully to the conversation, was downvoted.

Well, the other twin thread got downvoted too, so what do you make of it? It's currently 82% vs 72%, not much of a difference.

how do you know shills aren't down voting it to make us look bad?

We're not allowed to hunt wolves because there's a Wolf Hunting Commission who are supposed to do it, but when we take them out and show them the paw prints, the scat, the bones with teeth marks on them, they say we don't know what we're talking about; that it was probably just some prankster. So, we hunt wolves ourselves if we must.

And we'll be in the forest, getting it for you so that you might take it back to the village. We're not good with people anyways so it's probably best that you take it.

This was a good talk. Thanks for caring so much that you still go onto the individual level with your message. It means you're honest, I think.

It means you're honest, I think.

Hah! Fitting caveat. Look up his usernames transposed if you haven't read the trilogy. ;)

I'm very envious of OP's eloquence and cogency.

This post expresses my views on PG wonderfully and needs to get attention.

Well said. I personally believe in Pizzagate, and I will continue to investigate it. But I have to admit I'm not 100% sure it's true. A little healthy skepticism goes a long way. Whether it turns out to be true or not, we can cover both bases by being the best investigators we can be. Skepticism helps us sort the wheat from the chaff in terms of good vs bad evidence, helps us make our case more convincingly, and makes us look less like raving loons to the general public. The best we can do is articulately state the case that is warranted by the evidence, no more no less. If PG is real, that is our duty to the children who are victimized. If PG is not real, that is our duty to the falsely accused.

[I had to retype this whole comment which I found to be deleted after refreshing the page, weird!]

You know I'm pretty convinced, but I totally agree. I'm really in a holding pattern until after Jan 20th. My hope is that the real evidence was found on Weiner's laptop, and that law enforcement is unable to show their hand in the current political climate.

Since that laptop was found, we have seen several pedo rings get busted in rapid succession, and then seen those stories scrubbed from the web.

I think there is a real war going on out there, and we just have to be patient.

Circumstantial evidence based on facts are more than enough to convict a person. Most murder trials are based on circumstantial evidence.

The likeness of the Podesta brothers to the Madeleine kidnapper is beyond uncanny, whether there were 1 or 2 kidnappers. http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/madeleine-mccann-case-british-police-release-sketches-of-person-of-interest-1.1496650

The art work on John Podesta's wall is pedophilia written all over it. The Instagram pictures of Tony Podesta - little girl taped to table, another little girl with money in mouth - are just sick and is a bit of glue in all of this.

The connections go on. We are talking about children here, possibly murdered children (we need to see if we can find those kids in the Instagram pictures), so I am willing (and so should those involved) to risk some discomfort of an investigation.

That is if they have nothing to hide. ;-)

Tony Podesta did not have those pics on his Instagram that was James Alefantis' account.

do you really expect to be able to call off a witch hunt that is already on? youd be more likely to be labelled as a witch yourself.

Well, if investigative agencies that work for the people would initiate a formal investigation into pizzagate, perhaps we could get some clear answers.

It's being called 'fake news' and 'debunked' prior to any formal/official investigation at all - in the face of mountains of evidence. It may all be circumstantial but the sheer volume of odd coincidences and connections makes it increasingly unlikely that there's nothing to it.

The "victims" in the public eye will be the "falsely" accused.

It is already happening. The smear campaigns that drove elite trafficking survivors into silence in the 1990's have been revived, in force, including in other conspiracy communities and outlets. The pizzagate forums are filled with hysterical and nonsensical claims of "evidence". I see attempts to point people towards exploring evidence based historical cases and general research, but these are downvoted or ignored. Why?

What people don't understand is that they're not only directly affecting the lives of people whom they suspect have committed crimes, but the lives of victims and survivors too. This is not an arena to enter without consideration of all possible consequences. All this typing on the internet contributes to a cultural consensus on the issue. Pizzagate so far has added yet another stone in the foundation of societal denial that allows perpetrators to go on raping and torturing children with impunity.

All these years later we can't prove Oswald was a lone shooter either, most people are pretty sure he wasn't. We know the local autopsy law was usurped, the wound likely manipulated and on and on but no direct proof. Something as explosive as possible pedo leaders will be obfuscated in similar fashion.

Amen. These people are only discrediting further conspiracies. There may be something here but no one knows yet and pretending otherwise is irresponsible.

Thank you for voicing this. The lynch-mob mentality relating to this likely psy-op/trolling-op to discredit "conspiracy theorists" is growing more and more dangerous.

Dude... I was one of the first people he appointed haha I talk to him daily in our slack server.

I understand your doubts but no one else knows what I know besides the other mods