"If you assume conspiracies are right, it's obvious that there is a conspiracy going on!"

I'm not saying you're wrong, but your post is retarded.

Or my favorite, when people were saying the government was spying on us and we called those people crazy. Come to find we WERE being spied on and now we don't say a word about it lol

now people say "If you have nothing to hide, then what do you have to worry about"

That really pisses me off

Right? Saying you don't care about privacy because you have nothing to hide is like saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say

Hey give credit to who said it. "Snowden"

What if I told you it's possible for two people to think of the same analogy without one "copying" the other? mindfuck right?

There is no need to give credit when you speak truth.

So we should want privacy in case we have something to hide?

No you should want privacy because it's just a stepping stone. If you just let the government continue spying on you for no reason, then where does it stop? When is too much too much?

Imagine sitting in a room talking to friend about anything. Now imagine a big man hovering over your friend and you listening to everything you say at all times of the day, does that not frighten you?

No you should want privacy because it's just a stepping stone. If you just let the government continue spying on you for no reason, then where does it stop? When is too much too much?

How does that relate to the previous analogy? I still don't understand the point of the analogy and how they relate?

Imagine sitting in a room talking to friend about anything. Now imagine a big man hovering over your friend and you listening to everything you say at all times of the day, does that not frighten you?

No, it does not. I already believe this to be the case though, for many years. I find it non-coincidental that when I start working on music Hulu plays an add me and my roommates have never seen about a new laptop with special music apps.

Or that when my girlfriend comes over it starts playing adds about boyfriends buying their girlfriend lingerie.

Or when I talk about a game, and then my laptop gets a bunch of ads for said game that is years old.

If you give up your right for privacy, what other rights are you willing to give up because you think it doesn't matter at this current time?

I don't agree with this analogy either.

"If you have sex with a woman, what else are you willing to have sex with because your horny at the current time."

Also, as I pointed out, I don't believe we have privacy currently anyways.

The IRS specifically targeting tea partiers a few years back just proves how absurd that statement is. And it doesn't help that the Nazis used that phrase

Targeting? You mean for review when they requested tax exempt statuses meant for charities?

There are two side to every story. You're trying to demean the claims, but yet this continues to move forward in the courts

The real issue here isn't necessarily that they're wrong in saying that, it's that the government likes to make things illegal when they shouldn't be, so then you do have something to hide.

Like Kratom, Hemp, Cannabis extract, cannabis in general, any "drug" that grows in a forest, etc.

ask them why they have curtains on their windows.
got something to hide do you?

My mother said that after watching Snowden. Made my skin crawl, "they got you too, mom?"

"If you have nothing to say, why worry about free speech?"

It pisses me off when people in this community say that exact same thing when it comes to investigating the owner of a pizza restaurant for raping and murdering children in the basement of his restaurant during satanic rituals performed alongside the political elite, despite having zero evidence to corroborate those allegations

Everyone has something to hide, and yes it pisses me off too.

Source: am an IT guy

"I want to tell you. They lied. They said they had weapons of mass destruction. There were none, and they knew there were none!"

Mobile chemical weapon labs!

Things I've been right about thanks in part to this sub:

We're all being digitally monitored (echelon etc )

US funding terrorists

Turkish elite buying/selling oil with ISIS

DNC rigging

The list goes on...

And a Trump cabinet member is on record saying he should be brought home, tried and executed. I wouldn't be surprised if we see him traded for a lift on sanctions.

WERE

ARE

When did those people get called crazy? There were programs about it on channel 4 in the U.K. as far back as 1999- but I guess you probably weren't around then. There has been mainstream discussion of US spying activities for decades - it in no way validates the nonsense this sub spouts.

I remember being one of the people that said the government was spying on me.

I don't remember people calling me crazy. At most it was just a few conservatives saying it was unAmerican to question the government.

But you can't prove it by starting with the evidence "okay, so assume this conspiracy is true..."

This is such a stupid argument. Do you want this to be an echo chamber where every conspiracy is regarded as true simply because the sub's name is fucking conspiracy?

I need some evidence or solid reasoning. If everyone here was like you and believed things if they liked the sound of them we'd be just like mainstream media.

This isn't a forum for PROVEN FACTS. This is a CONSPIRACY THEORY FORUM. If we could PROVE every conspiracy beyond a shadow of a doubt this forum would not exist. This is a place for sharing ideas and information about conspiracies. It is a place where we are allowed to entertain the idea of conspiracies, not a court in which we determine which conspiracies people are allowed to believe in.

Man your comment pisses me off.

You're mad because he asked for evidence? You realize if you want anyone to take you seriously you have to have at least some evidence? Otherwise you could just make shit like pizzagate up from nothing. This would result in most people dismissing it because it doesn't have any proof other than, "isn't it odd he talks about pizza so much." Which is pretty weak and exactly what happened.

No. That is not exactly what happened.

Honest people have looked into leaked emails, and figured there is a code system regarding pizza.

From there they followed the pizza place most often mentioned in the emails.

This led to the pizza place owner's Instagram account, which seemed to have many vague and coded references in regards to children. Children who aren't even eating pizza in the pics. The pictures are weird, especially if they are supposed to be normal marketing social media pics for a normal family pizza place.

JimmyComet is disturbing. Every single comment on his IG uis disturbing. #killroom? #chickenlover on the pic of a man holding a baby in the backroom/kitchen of the restaurant - not eating chicken? There are thousands of comments sigh as these connected to this -

Don't act like this shit came out of nothing.

Oh yeah - and where is the nightly news evidence for ANY of the shit being reported these days. R/conspiracy has more facts and verification than r/politics or any MSM program. I guarantee it.

Ah yes, Dan Brown's next hot novel The Pizza Code. What a fucking joke lol.

I'm sorry, I don't get where being suspected of pedophilia, or some other code for illegal acts such as heavy drugs, is funny. I must have missed the joke.

It's funny because there is no fucking evidence to support it. You just want to believe it is true. That is the part everyone else is laughing at.

Some people are just straight deluded. Whenever I ask for proof for any of these theories they will just give you another conspiracy theory to reaffirm that one. Then you get downvoted when you're just asking for proof. Any reason or evidence at all to support a claim. And then they get pissed off when you call them out for it.

Here is a pastebin link to at least some of the circumstancial evidence that has led people to believe these allegations. If you have not reviewed all the evidence, you should. There is no single article or link that proves anything - you have to do the research yourself and review the evidence yourself. This is not because someone can't put it all on one page. If someone does, then people claim the pictures are faked, etc. So go to each of the archived webpages yourself and then make up your mind.

http://pastebin.com/ZykxjTRL

This is probably not even the best collection of all there is - but at least its a start.

Actually, as I said before, I don't think it's funny and I certainly did not want to believe it. Honestly, I was rather depressed and sick to my stomach the first week after viewing what is now the deleted JimmyComet Instagram and the connected Wiki Podesta emails/Podestas brother artwork. But perhaps you have the same sense of humor as Mr. James Alafantis & J. Pedosta and you can explain their "jokes" for me...

Here is a pastebin link to at least some of the circumstancial evidence that has led people to believe these allegations. If you have not reviewed all the evidence, you should. There is no single article or link that proves anything - you have to do the research yourself and review the evidence yourself. This is not because someone can't put it all on one page. If someone does, then people claim the pictures are faked, etc. So go to each of the archived webpages yourself and then make up your mind. http://pastebin.com/ZykxjTRL This is probably not even the best collection of all people have found - but at least its a start.

I've seen the "evidence." It's garbage. Not a shred of anything concrete. Use your brain a bit.

It's not garbage. Thanks for your input though.

Exactly. The scientific method is nothing more than making a guess then following up to see if your guess withstands experiment. This premise is how all advances take place.

Exactly. The scientific method is nothing more than making a guess then following up to see if your guess withstands experiment. This premise is how all advances take place.

Oversimplifying things a bit, don't you think?

"If you cannot explain a thing simply, you do not understand it well enough"

Albert Einstein

Yes but "if we imagine that this one thing is true then that means this one thing is true" isn't a hypothesis, and that is essentially what the OP is saying

I am not advocating for the theory presented, I am defending the process. Question, disprove, debunk everything. But don't forget it all begins with some crazy idea.

I know. But you brought up the scientific method as OP's process. My point is that a big part of the scientific method is that you shouldn't begin with the assumption that your theory is correct which is exactly what OP is doing.

[deleted]

I realize there is a tendency for some people to accept theories as facts, especially given the election season and whatnot. But this brand of concern trolling is toxic and disruptive and it does not have much of a place on this board.

No we should not accept theory as fact, and we should also not dismiss theory offhandedly.

The only people who could deny that there has been a hostile presence on this forum recently are members of that hostile presence and very new members. This presence quite often takes the form of comments dismissing any conspiracy theory based on lack of evidence or the seeming absurdity of the theory. Particularly noticeable with pizzagate threads.

I believe this hostility could be reasonably attributed to perfectly innocent factors, but I also believe that it is absolutely not impossible that it is organized as part of a conspiracy.

That is what this forum is all about - protecting the rights of an organized group to discuss these things openly. And these kinds of priveleges are easy to abuse by meddling outsiders who want to shut down conversation about a certain topic. This is not in the spirit of this sub.

When people get up in arms over a conspiracy, you know it's because there's something to it that angers them, something real that angers them.

Tell us more about your precious feelings

This seems to upset you enough to comment lol. How's them feelings.

[removed]

Lol internet tough

Rule 10. If this is all you have to say, say nothing - or you will be banned.

Does not every police investigation start with little or no evidence and a few shaky leads?

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.---Aristotle

No, most police investigations do not start with "a few shaky leads". They begin with a crime being committed or a complaint from a citizen that a specific crime has been committed. Then they try to piece together the who, what, where, when, why. If they started investigating every single shaky lead they had this country would be a police state.

So are you saying it's not the truth then?

Stop pussyfooting. You can never be 100% sure of anything (duh) but you wouldn't be floating this idea if you didn't think it was likely correct.

My (our) point is that it's insane. But we're living in a post-truth era where facts don't really matter anymore so you'll fit right in.

Your ideas are dangerously stupid, and you need to be stopped from spreading them

Your ideas are like my bloody asscheeks

Stop spreading them

If you hear them it's fucking awful

If you see them you want to spoon out your eyes

Whats crazier is how much more down to earth and logical asshair is being than you. He continues to make valid points while you repeat an argument that already didn't work.

Beautiful deflection. Really a perfectly crafted argument

Something other than attacking someone because of the name they chose on Reddit would be good

Conspiracies form out of truth

The term you're looking for is 'fake news'. Like the flat earth believers, a step below regular CTs.

Dude, fuck these guys. This is a place for all thoughts and opinions to be heard. This is a place where nothing is absolute. No one knows what is really going on except the elites responsible.

At this point, it is undeniable that the public is being fed a load of bullshit and lies. This sub is dedicated to speculating the reality behind the curtain. Any and every theory could be possible until proven false. That's what this sub is about.

We have seen a growing hostility from the MSM and elites toward some recent, popular, and very convincing conspiracies. They refuse to acknowledge anything that goes against their agenda, and they have a terrifying record of silencing dissenters. We are reaching a point that the MSM, proven to be the propaganda front of the Democratic party by Wikileaks, is attempting to define "truth." This is very dangerous, and you are right to feel "crazy" or afraid. But it's up to us to remind them that we're not as stupid as they think. We're not falling for their bullshit. We're not falling in line. And until they take every last one of us, there will always be a voice for reason and logic and free thought.

Everyone is stuck in their echo chambers and are unwilling to accept any idea that goes against their agenda, and feel the need to silence different opinions. Keep speaking out.

THANK YOU! I am so sick of feeling like I'm reading the National Enquirer when I come here! I am looking for well thought out and marginally possible conspiracy theories.

Can you prove what the nightly news says is true?

No, you can't. So you should listen to All news with an open mind and heart.

Okay but you have already accepted it as fact, so that's not a conspiracy, just insanity.

In your title

These are the actions of a bank robber that is now trapped in a building surrounded by the police... I'm worried that the final step is either civil war or war with Russia.... I think this next upcoming month is going to be very dangerous time for all of us.

Yeah, you're so open minded that you speak in absolutes.

I'm not offended, I'm pointing out the bullshit where I see it. Apparently criticism is now "being offended".

Hey, this is supposed to be his safe place.

Lol you misspelled "echo chamber"

well exactly.

Same thing really.

why are you so offended that I went to a place where people like me can share ideas?

lol. You realize this is a safe place right?

This is the exact same thing, only Clinton might be a morally corrupt bastard, but she's done nothing illegal, only had narratives painted against her by alt-right media.

People like you read emails like "Clinton had nothing to do with the Laura Silsby case", post an article saying "CLINTON SILSBY CHILD TRAFFICKING CONNECTION" then more likeminded people jump on the bullshit bandwagon without reading sources and thinking rationally. At least with Trump we can point out how objectively bad his economic and environmental policies are.

If you're going to try and make a point, at least be realistic, and stop with the hyperbolic bullshit. There should be enough evidence that you can actually find that you don't need to make up bullshit like "WHY ISN'T HIS ENTIRE CABINET BLACK TRANSGENDER PEOPLE".

I'm incredibly concerned right now. Every comment of yours or comment that agrees with you is massively downvoted and all comments contradicting you are massively upvoted. I've also noticed that any and all threads discussing the DNC, Wikileaks, Russian involvement or non-involvement in the election, the Clintons as a crime family, pizzagate, and Julian Assange to name a few are heavily brigaded with nay-Sayers and people adamantly arguing against OP. I'm beginning to feel a little creeped out by the idea that maybe this sub, like many others, has been infiltrated by shills. Heavily so, actually. Maybe I'm just being paranoid though.

A lot of us are tired of the Russian propaganda. We're tired of The_Donald brigading every single thread they can while at the same time crying about censorship if they run into anybody that disagrees.

Wait are you actually trying to have discussions with shills? Reddit is lost, forget about this site and move on.

Yep, I realised this yesterday... they didn't stop after the election. This is hell and the future of the internet. These people wanna have a monopoly on information and how we see it, see this: https://twitter.com/deYook/status/809852188570816512

That's so close to self realization it almost hurts lol

So you mean that, deep down, you know this is all bullshit?

Just things with no supporting evidence lol. For a place that's supposed to be all about critical thinking the arguments are pretty weak.

Now that, I can understand. The only thing I would suggest is that you include some links next time or maybe even edit this post. If you are trying to get people convinced r/all is where it's going to happen. It's also going to be the place you take the most heat as you already know. There are also going to be people that become believers.

No worries. I love this sub, but I'm just not on board with the pizza thing and lately that's all that has been here. I hate Hillary's guts as much as the next guy lol. I just think there are better scandals that are easier to prove and we should be barbecuing her with those.

PERSON WHO ALSO DONATES TO CF DONATES TO OTHER THING, READ ALL ABOUT IT. Tell me why that's an issue?

You obviously have no idea about who Soros is, so there is really no point to this.

so there is really no point to this

And this is why there is a divide. You don't want to debate, you just want to call those without your opinions idiots and refuse dialogue with them. If you have a point then make a point. If you don't, then don't.

As for you, why is everyone who tries to maintain sanity a "shill"? You don't want a debate, you want to be equally as "right" as you think the "shills" are. Fuck off this site if you don't like people with differing opinions. Sorry this place isn't an echo chamber for the shit spewing out of your mouth.

You're not crazy or wrong. You hit a nerve. Don't let these fucks gaslight you. They are the crazy irrational shitbags, not you.

So why aren't any conspiracies about Trump or Russia ever upvoted unless they're anti-Clinton?

Are you talking about when they quote his actual words or literally show video of him directly saying things he later denies?

Source? Because mostly I just see clips of Trump's actual words which he later publicly denies.

It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.---Aristotle

Remember when kids were being molested in a pizza joint? I do.

Your 'it fits' logic is nonsense. So is your 'but we were right about something in the past' logic.

You need to make two major changes in your life if you want to be better at identifying actual conspiracies instead of just taking stabs in the dark:

1) You need to start noticing things that don't happen as much as things that do happen. Humans didn't evolve to notice non-connections and non-patterns, this isn't as easy as it seems, but it's truly what separates the boys from the men.

2) You need to separate your sense of identity from your beliefs. So if you believe something and new evidence comes to light that no longer supports that belief, it's easier for you to modify that belief.

Give us evidence, not this 'but it fits' nonsense.

There is plenty of evidence that Hillary is a corrupt criminal. Rigging the primary, violating the records keeping act to violate the FOIA act. And lying about it all.

There's no implication she (Hillary) rigged the primary, the allegation (which I believe) is that Debbie Washerman Schultz organized resistance to Bernie/support for Hillary which is unethical for the DNC chairperson, who should remain neutral in party nominations.

So you believe Schultz, who after her unethical activity was appointed honorary chair of the Clinton campaign, did these things on her own with no complicity from Hillary? Actually the leaked emails show they were all coordinated working together with the Hillary campaign. http://usuncut.com/politics/dnc-leaks-9-emails/

Remember when kids were being molested in a pizza joint? I do.

It is far fetched but there is nothing to disprove it and it has not been disproven despite what Snopes and Poltifact tell you. Nothing is dead to rights obviously but the coincidences still exist. Their are sex trafficking rings all over the world including the United States. People in highest echelons of society have been implemented in them in the past. John Podesta is personal friends with atleast 3 high power people who have been convicted as pedophiles.

The onus is on the person making the claim to prove something happened. Not being able to disprove that something happened doesn't mean that that thing happened.

I never said it did happen. Just saying that you can't say case closed until it is proven false. Just like the new Russian hacking claims. There is absolutely no evidence but people still accept it as fact. Shouldn't they have to prove it too?

You don't prove things false you prove them true. Imagine if that was how the justice system operated, loads of people would end up in jail simply because they couldn't prove they didn't do something.

The FBI and CIA are both saying Russia was involved, which might not be 100% proof, but is certainly evidence.

The FBI and CIA are both saying Russia was involved, which might not be 100% proof, but is certainly evidence.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/clinton-blames-putins-personal-grudge-against-her-for-election-interference/2016/12/16/12f36250-c3be-11e6-8422-eac61c0ef74d_story.html

Show me the evidence. Anything I can find about it is just the WaPo saying they have unnamed sources.

The CIA and the FBI declined to comment on Brennan’s message or on the classified intelligence assessment that CIA officials shared with members of the Senate Intelligence Committee earlier this month, setting off a political firestorm.

A few days after the Senate briefing, a senior FBI counter­intelligence official briefed the House Intelligence Committee but was not as categorical as the CIA briefer about Russia’s intention to help Trump, according to officials who were present. The FBI official’s more cautious presentation of the intelligence to the House panel left some Republican and Democratic lawmakers in the room with the impression that the FBI disagreed with the CIA.

FBI disagreed with the CIA.

Julian Assange has verified that it was not state actors that leaked the emails to him but would not go any further than that. John Podesta pretty much calls out Eric Braverman for being the leaker in his emails and now Braverman has been missing for 30 days. Julian Assange and wikileaks have a flawless record. They have never lied or been wrong for the ten years they have been out. Sorry if I believe them more than the CIA whose sole purpose is to deceive.

Julian Assange does say though that all governments are constantly hacking eachother for various purposes. So I am not saying that Russia isn't actively trying to penetrate our information, just that there is no evidence that this was them. John Podesta clicked on a shady "change your password" email. You didn't a state sponsored hacker group to get in. The guy is an idiot with zero sense of cyber security.

Secondly, the DNC was hacked/leaked way before Trump was considered a serious candidate for president.

I really don't know enough about the issue to get into it, I was just making the point that you don't prove something didn't happen but you prove it did. I'm happy to include the Russia hack in with that.

I'm happy to include the Russia hack in with that.

Thanks. I am just pointing a double standard. People will somehow still believe the true/false verdicts of the media just because they are the media. Most of these journalists have no more access to information that the average person anymore. It is not enough to just take someone's word for it.

[deleted]

Washington Post:

"Russia hacked the DNC emails."

There is nothing to prove or disprove this. Therefore, they hacked the DNC emails.

Flawless logic.

[deleted]

You're saying that

[deleted]

And you're not proving it! Maybe you should go work for the Washington Post.

[deleted]

Yea not really.

That logic is so flawed. You also can't prove that Hitler didn't reincarnate himself as a dog, but that doesn't mean you assume it's true.

So then so is the logic behind the Russian hacking. The washington post says they have an unnamed source who says it's true and we are supposed to believe it?

Of course the source is unnamed they're not going to release the name of their sources. Any half decent news publisher will confirm their sources identity to be sure they aren't just some random person, but they're not going to release that identity to the public because it would put their sources on the line. Nobody would ever leak information to them, again. If you don't trust the washington post then that's up to you, but to say that because they're not releasing the name of their source they must not actually have one completely misses the important part.

Of course the source is unnamed they're not going to release the name of their sources. Any half decent news publisher will confirm their sources identity to be sure they aren't just some random person, but they're not going to release that identity to the public because it would put their sources on the line.

Wikileaks doesn't reveal their sources either but they provide tangible evidence.

Considering what was in the emails, the Washington Post has ZERO credibility. Bezos and the entire paper was in the bag for the Clinton campaign. They are not an objective news source and are completely biased. Why wouldn't the unnamed source go to a reputable journalist or publication like Glenn Greenwald or Reuters.

From what I remember wikileaks doesn't even check their sources, they only try to verify that the data isn't fabricated. And again, your bias towards not trusting Washington Post isn't really relevant when my point was that a source being unnamed does not mean that it is fabricated.

Like I said, considering the complete lack of integrity on the part of the WaPo, I will not believe a word they say. Ever most likely. Why should anyone believe them?

You're missing my point. If you don't believe their article that's fine. A source being unnamed, though, is not evidence of fabrication(because logically any source of sensitive information will be verified privately by the publication but not released to the public). Then back to the original point; the lack of evidence that something is not true does not constitute evidence that it is true. It is illogical to assume a claim is true on the grounds that is hasn't been proven false.

It is far fetched but there is nothing to disprove it and it has not been disproven despite what Snopes and Poltifact tell you.

Do you have any idea how fucking stupid this sentence is? If this method of thinking was used in practice then absolutely nothing could be ruled out. It amounts to guilty until proven innocent. Every accusation could result in someone's imprisonment.

Yea just like russian hackers are guilty until proven innocent for hacking the DNC? It literally could have been anyone.

And for what it is worth, Trump was constantly put up against this double standard the entire election. What happened to his rape accusers? They are gone but people are still calling him a rapist.

Okay...? I don't see why you are telling me this. My previous comment was non-partisan and you barge in here supporting Trump.

Anyway, I don't think you know how supporting evidence works. Russia was likely behind the DNC and RNC hacks. Evidence is accumulating supporting this assertion. You know this. Of course you might think the entire federal government is in cahoots, but you probably don't have credible evidence supporting that claim.

What happened to the rape accusers? Well there was only one and she dropped the suit. Here's a rundown of every other accusation as of October 22: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/assault-allegations-donald-trump-recapped/

People are calling him a rapist because he claimed to nonconsensually grab women by the pussy. Technically it's not rape but I think that's just splitting hairs.

Where is the evidence though?

There's nothing to disprove the theory that there is a porcelain teapot orbiting Saturn but that doesn't mean it's likely or something we should base our actions on.

Nothing to prove or disprove the Russian hacks either. Could just as easily have been an inside leaker. So we shouldn't base our actions on that either.

If there really is no evidence to suggest Russia was responsible for the hack then yeah we shouldn't base our action on the assumption they were involved.

So we probably shouldn't be plastering the front page of every newspaper with that verdict then? Just like we should be plastering the front page of every paper with the pizza gate theory?

I said "If there really is no evidence..." so if there is evidence then it's fine to put on the frontpage of whatever paper. I assume there is probably some way to determine where the hack originated from and multiple govt agencies have said the evidence points to Russia. Of course if this is propaganda then we shouldn't act on it but that's a different matter. I have yet to see even remotely convincing evidence supporting "pizzagate" so it's in a totally different ballpark

...no. no one remembers it because it never happened. Every Bernie supporter paying even an iota of attention knew the DNC was in it for Hillary before a single email released.

I would just like to point out that a lot of the "proof" is sensationalized bullshit from Infowars and Macedonian teens that added their own context and meaning to things they read.

And anybody who disagreed with the interpretation was called a CTR employee, even /u/marc_elias was shit on for trying to talk some sense into people and he's someone who was actively fighting real election rigging and racism.

They knew the DNC was in the bag for her but not to the extent of leaking debate questions to her.

Donna leaked that the debate in Michigan was going to have a question on the flint water crisis. Not saying it wasn't wrong, but I think duh should have been the emailed reply.

It was the death penalty question I believe. If Donald trump had a debate question given to him, you would be doing backflips about it and you know it.

[deleted]

Actually I believe it was the Primary town hall. It definitely was not a Trump debate.

One doesn't justify the other though. The DNC, for better or worse, is an independent organisation that can and will work towards the benefit of its key members. It's shitty, but they're allowed to do it. You can't expect politicians not to politic to secure their own party's nomination.

What you're suggesting is high treason that would involve hundreds of people, some of whom would consider themselves decent patriots. Do you honestly believe that's what's going on behind closed doors? Has Hilary Clinton committed crimes? Probably. Is she pulling the strings behind the scenes, trying to frame a country and overthrow a democratically elected president? Probably not.

Some of you guys go too far down the rabbit hole that you start to believe anything. Sometimes you need to take a step back and apply some common sense.

Nope. Assuming our politicians are somehow above the working class (which has criminals, you know, the ones that line pockets with money in for-profit jails) IS what has got us to the complacent pseudo-slavery masked by democracy absolute garbage hole that we're in now.

We KNOW money buys our politicians. Why people still think politicians got in by having some good standard of morals is beyond me.

But you have to understand that these allegations that Russia did in fact play a role in manipulating the election in favor of Trump. Our security agencies have publicly stated that this did in fact happen, this is not some plot made by Hillary attempting to take back the election.

Because, unlike you, they probably want to make sure beyond reasonable doubt that Russia was involved before publicly announcing they were?

This is the only proof right now of Russian intrusion. Take this into account as you search for the truth in all of this. https://www.crowdstrike.com/blog/bears-midst-intrusion-democratic-national-committee/

Trump was the source of the leak by bragging about in front the the Secret Service. Other intelegence agencies were read into it after the first canary test. This is why Trump doesnt attend breifings until the information is in the wind.

Trump has been a confidential FBI informant for years and he's used them as shade in the past. The CIA advised him against developing a relationsip with Putin and declined his services back in 2009.

The emails have been posted on WikiLeaks, it's not a secret, it's public information

How would Assange even know if they were ? The leaks could have easily came from intelligence operatives posing as like minded hackers/staffers/whatever or using someone else who is an asset to pass the data along. Those spooks are not rookies.

Nah, it may be part of a conspiracy, but that's like espionage 101. The people who do that kind of work in intel are the people you would least expect to. Obviously hiding who they are is the foundation of their work.

If they cant inform congress about it in a court then there isnt enough evidence. Also isnt the biggest shareholder of NYT mexican or something, isnt the biggest shareholder in twitter Saudi Arabia?

Remember when Hillarys failing health was an alt right conspiracy theory pushed by evil sexists?

Pretty much everything that was labeled a conspiracy about Hillary this campaign ended up being 100% true. Rigged primaries, cheating in debates, mass media collusion, failing health, etc.

That was never considered a silly conspiracy theory. The people in the DNC clearly thought Hillary had a better chance of being elected than Bernie so they stacked the deck in his favor. Some people were "outraged" but I don't think anyone was truly shocked.

No, because we could all see it plain as day and there was solid evidence to back it up, right out in the open. That was more like a poorly executed plan.

I love this argument. "Conspiracy theories can be as batshit crazy as you want and should still be accepted as gospel because a couple of times there was really something going on."

Remember when it was a conspiracy that the DNC was rigging the primaries against Bernie? Therefore these unrelated conspiracies are true.

In that case NASA should receive a massive funding boost to prepare for the possibility that an advanced alien civilization is coming to destroy the earth. No evidence to disprove it and with the risk of annihilation it makes sense to prepare right? We can't dismiss the theory and we should choose whichever action prevents the most loss of human life, right?

That was never a conspiracy. That was Bernie Sanders literally calling out the DNC on their shit, not just a bunch of weirdos on the internet pulling shit out their ass.

Remember when it was a silly conspiracy to think the DNC was rigging against Bernie.

not really, with the exception of the fervent hill supporters. like, seriously, it was obvious without the leaks

It's sad that /conspiracy has become a battleground between RNC, DNC and Kremlin. Get the fuck out of my favorite subreddit. Post your shit on the_donald.

That doesn't make it more likely that other conspiracies exist.

I think it was pretty clear with how the super delegates already said they were voting for Hillary that the election was rigged against Sanders.

My conspiracy about XYZ was right so clearly chemtrails are real.

First red-pill is the hardest, but the world changes overnight once you realize it really is whats going on.

Wait until you like Trump, then you will know the conversion is complete! T_D will have a coat waiting for you, just ask them for one when you get there.

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Awww there's the white trash loser attitude that helped America become a world laughingstock.

You don't need to indentify because that's not a word. But hey, this is the internet. You can be anything you want to be, except apparently loved by your parents, hence your pathetic need to cry out for attention.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

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Rule 10. Removed. Final warning.

That wasn't a silly conspiracy, it was obvious. We just didn't have proof until the hacks

But why anti Hillary still? Even if the electoral college goes against Trump, it won't be for Hillary.

Oh, right, this is a distraction post from all the criminal enterprises and conflicts of interest of TRUMP.

Because "omg hill gave secret wall Street speeches" doesn't work as an argument when Trump appoints well Street execs to his cabinet.

"Omg crooked Hillary on bed with oil lobbyists" doesn't work when Trump appoints the CEO of EXXON to his staff, who praises Putin and stated he doesn't have the USA interest as top priority, just his own.

So how about stfu about how bad Hillary is, because the REAL info on her is bad enough that the BULLSHIT isn't necessary.

How about focus on the CRIMINAL THAT WON

Fucking disinfo if I ever saw it. One year ago you tell this sub that the Russians will infiltrate our elections and y'all have a conspiracy boner. It happens, and it was Trump they choose to support, and suddenly "why do we even think Russia is so bad?"

See here is the problem. Now instead of addressing the real problem of Trump, our government, the powers that be, we have a bunch of 4chan autists like you that treat this like a Fucking game.

Lol u lost, Libfag, see u in 4 years!!

Some of us actually care about the tangible results that effect people in real life.

And now that you can't bash Hillary anymore, you got nothing. Fucking nothing. But go on and bash Hillary for the entire 4 years of Trump while he fucks over everyone you know. Yeeeeeehawww librul tears!!!!

Hillary was the worst candidate ever, literally the only person that could lose to a con man like Trump.

So get over it, and deal with the reality of the crook that DID win rather than the crook that DIDN'T Win.

Did you read what the guy wrote to you? He even said you aren't wrong. He said that your logic is fucking stupid.

You said "if you view Hillary Clinton as a criminal, she is a criminal." That's stupid fucking logic that isn't going to sway anybody, and only speaks to an echo chamber.

The one against her was far worse.

That wasn't a conspiracy. Everyone knew it was happening, while it was happening. It was no secret. It was widely reported that the DNC was favoring Hillary and doing everything they could to give her the advantage over Bernie.

'cept they didn't. He lost on Super Tuesday all on his own

That was never a silly conspiracy, that was just a truth about how the Democrats in power honestly thought Bernie was too socialist to be elected. That's what the super delegates are for. Now don't get me wrong, I voted for Bernie, but at no point was it some sort of conspiracy.

Only idiots who lacked a basic understanding of the U.S. political system in general and the DNC specifically thought that it was a "conspiracy" that the DNC was rigged against Berney.

Those of us capable of cognitive reasoning understood that the DNC radically reorganized itself decades ago specifically to prevent populist candidates from winning over establishment candidates. It wasn't a conspiracy, it was literally the DNC doing the job it was supposed to do.

You're just too lazy to actually to the research required to understand what is going on, so you chalk it all up to being a big conspiracy.

All this is, is a way for you to feel righteous in your intellectually lethargy.

tl;dr You're just lazy

It's very interesting how people will swear that the DNC screwed over Bernie and "stole" the election from him, but when you ask for actual examples that they have personally read, all you get is that one question was leaked to Hillary and a bunch of other BS that only happened after Bernie had already lost New York, his last chance of making gains in the primary.

This is a perfect description of how conspiracy theories work. Thanks, OP, for the great example!

It's a cult of personality and religious in nature.

First you decide that one side is good and the other is evil and every information you receive is filtered through that lens. So if Trump decides to shoot someone in the middle of the street or kill most all life on earth with a flood, his followers will find a way to convince themselves that it's for the greater good.

That's an insult to retarded things.

Oh fuck off.

You're right, the MSM should stop spouting conspiracies about Russian involment in the dnc hacks.

Thank you for correcting the record

Fun Fact:

Both Bernie and Trump spent more on social media manipulation. And Russians have entire office buildings full of trolls.

You fear the wrong boogeymen.

Lol manipulation? Why is this s campaigning for Hillary but manipulation for Them? The most important number that can't be ignored is the total amount raised. Hillary destroyed trump in contributions but couldn't win. Democrats now need to stop the false lies that to beat the game you have to play the game.

Ah, yes, the old "they disagree with me so someone must have paid them to do it" argument.

If Donald is somehow not allowed to be prez. The alt right will revolt and be quickly dispatched. This could be the plan all along to Eliminate the one group that doesn't play Global Ball 🔼

So you think its perfectly normal for Bill and Hillary to take trips on the Lolita Express and spend their days at Pedo Island with a convicted pedophile? Bill even ditched the secret service on his multiple trips.. The crowd-sourced investigation is picking up steam, have a look for yourself here

Who the fuck gave you gold for this, your post makes no sense whatsoever and has nothing to do with what OP wrote in the slightest. Lol this place is getting weird.

It's really pointless to say that if you start with the assumption that Hillary's a criminal, then all the stuff that indicates Hillary is a criminal is obviously true and validates your original assumption that Hillary is a criminal, since Hillary was a criminal to start with.

Seriously, in your eyes, would literally anything show that Hillary's not a criminal? Because if it's that case, then it is completely pointless arguing. Conspiracy theories need to be falsifiable to have any meaning. Otherwise, they're as true as Russell's teapot.

No I see your point. But what the gilded post says is so retarded. What does "if you assume conspiracies are right" even mean? Like does he mean theories? ALL theories? That whole thing makes no sense whatsoever. Especially as a reply to OP, which is a whole nother scenario.

If you assume that the conspiracy exists (that Hillary is a criminal), then it is incredibly obvious that all evidence points towards the existence of a conspiracy (that Hillary is a criminal).

I don't agree with this post either (Trump isn't going after Clinton now that he won), but it is also true that having a hypothesis is useful even if it is wrong. When you have a theory you can look at the weakest part and test it rather than trying to put all the peices together at once. The real question is how geniuses form their hypotheses, which I don't think is ever going to be fully understood.

Regarding the media hysteria of the past few weeks: it seems to me to be just hot air with no actual purpose other than distraction from a loss that was embarrassing to the political establishment, the media, intelligence agencies, and the donors. A lot can be learned from this election (chiefly that the electoral college needs to go, as even Trump concedes) and they are invested in keeping the system intact through division.

it is also true that having a hypothesis is useful even if it is wrong.

They don't think it's a hypothesis. They don't even think it's a theory.

They genuinely believe their opinions are facts and their debunked nonsense is reality.

Are insults getting gold on conspiracy now?

Proof this sub is gamed to the hilt each and every day. Reported.

"The explanation which requires the fewest assumptions is usually the most correct."

You can assume ulterior motives for each individual event, or assume just one thing about Hillary's campaign which explains all of it.

Ah yes,Occam's Razor dictates it's the vast global conspiracy that's the likely reason for things.

The thing that's fucked about this situation is you've got that regardless of which way you think it went. There's actually less widespread conspiracy if Hillary's camp was running one.

Whoever gilded your comment is retarded.

But how else will you know that the commenter is right?

In this case it seems more likely that the commenter is retarded.

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The truth is Hillary was a flawed candidate, but not the criminal that Trump, the Russians, Assange and fake news made her out to be. Shame on those who got duped

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All the people who honestly believe Clinton will ever end up in a courtroom are the most gullible fucks on the plenet.

"That plays great before the election, now we don't care, right?"

Half of this subreddit.

Half? Generous.

But her old buddy Trump said so! /s

Trump was supposedly gonna incriminate her. After he won, he was talking all nice to her.

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Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

what about u/warchemix? he called most of the planet "gullible fucks".

Depends on what evidence President Trump has at his disposal

The man isn't even in office yet. I can't wait for you to be proven wrong

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RemindMe! Four Years

I wanna join you. I can't WAIT for Trump to prove you wrong.

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I haven't made a statement. If by that you mean "What will I do if Trump continues down this path after all", then my answer is "don't give old tangerine face a second term"

I will be messaging you on 2020-12-17 18:44:15 UTC to remind you of this link.

4 OTHERS CLICKED THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

^{Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.}

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Trump thanking people for the hype and for dismissing his empty promises after the election

It's not actually funny. It's just 100% true and 100% sad. I'm a decently educated guy and I can at least understand why people voted for Trump, I still have difficulty understanding why people voted for Hillary besides the fact that she wasn't Trump.

Votes for Hillary in the primary seem like a more egregious crime against humanity than a vote for Trump in the actual election.

RemindMe! 6 months "Mark my words"

She sold favour as SOS for foreign monies.

How the fuck isn't that criminal?

If she did, she would be prosecuted. She didnt and wasnt

The funny part is the one where random redditors think they have uncovered some definitive proof that she is a criminal that somehow the FBI missed.

Look, Trump won't prosecute her. You're stuck with two possible explanations:

Either she's not getting persecuted because of a massive conspiracy to protect her, which include many of her most energetic political opponents.

OR

The FBI is a more reliable source on the criminality of her actions than randoms on an internet forum dedicated to conspiracies.

Too logical for most of the folks here

most people here will think the massive conspiracy and coverup is more likely

Or it's true but there isn't the substantial proof enough for the FBI to go into those waters

Or there is no way they will prosecute one of the Washington elite because it would uncover much wider spread crimes throughout government.

Fuck your logic, she's clearly a lizard, I mean that would make much more sense right? /s

Or Trump is saying he won't prosecute so Obama doesn't have an excuse to pardon Clinton and then next year he appoints a special prosecutor. Doubt it though. Unless there are ongoing investigations into her dealings with the department and/or the foundation that turn up with irrefutable evidence, we may not hear of this again.

That proves nothing, powerful people often commit crimes and are not prosecuted, and I'm not saying she is a criminal, she might or might not be that's not for me to determine.

Then what are you saying?

I'm saying she might be

I call b.s. She's been before more congressional committees than I can count, and not once has she ever been indicted for criminal activity. Its character assassination by inference.

It doesn't matter, powerful people can get away with anything

What else is new? Do you want to ban all powerful people?

Yes, i agree that she is part of a corrupt political machine, and i didnt vote for her. but she isnt the evil monster you guys make her out to be, and trump is already doing the same shit or worse, not to win office, but to help his businesses in overseas deals and to help his friends and investments in the US.

That sounds evil to me... just cause its their job or being part of a system doesn't make it not evil. It only makes it a legal grey area which should be clearly criminal. They're both bad and we shouldn't be giving either of them any slack for it.

i guess so. i think it doesnt feel evil to me because its the same old shit every politician does. but it definitely seems wrong how people are accusing her and others of malicious intentions, or of any of the pizzagate stuff

That's cause you're desensitized to their shitty game. I'd say to quit troubling yourself with politics since things are insane right now but I've been finding it difficult to take that suggestion myself. I'm pretty sure most people share some of the same sentiments if we were somehow able to refocus on our own realities. Theres a war on truth and it should be pretty obvious if you consider wikileaks for a moment with a skeptical mind.

Exactly! I find the Hilary's corrupt argument doesn't really hold any water when it's compared to Trump. His conflicts of interest are 10x worse than hers. She is an awful candidate and represents everything that is wrong with the American political system but she still isn't as bad as trump. I would really love to be proven wrong and have a civil meaningful discussion about this. If anyone disagrees with me explain why.

It is criminal, but our justice system is political (judges are elected, so are prosecutors). Since she has so many connections, she gets a get out of jail free card, but destroys all her political capital in the process. If she was POTUS, she would have been able to regain that capital.

Many judges are appointed.

Yea I was gonna say federal judges are appointed and there is quite a few different types of judicial selections methods across the individual states, 38 of which are some form of public election but that number gets smaller as you break down types of elections and retention policies of sitting judges

I know she's sleazy, but point to any evidence of that.

Crybabies gonna cry. Your candidate took bribes from Qatar. Trump hasnt. Get over it. Your candidate is hands deep in terrorism and is every bit as horrible as they REVEALED her to be. They didnt make up shit.

I kept on hearing the lesser of two evils argument. But I was always wondering, what if I don't think she's evil? You can't just say someone is evil or a criminal and have it be true. But it seems like this is our world now. We can just claim something to be true, and get enough people to believe it, so it must be true.

Yeah, if you disagree, you are a shill, or corrupt. The reading comprehension has gone down and the gullibility has gone up by a factor of ten.

ctr alert!! /s

It's not so funny when you realize 3 months ago all dissenting, anti-Trump opinions here where apparently the work of CTR and CTR alone if you took the comments on those posts at face value.

i remember

Because this happened on both sides.

I think that's a valid opinion. I don't share it, personally. Not that I think she (or Trump) are evil, but I think they very much count as "evils" for the purpose of the expression. I know there are still plenty of people who believe that Clinton was a genuinely good candidate though. I don't really see how, but then there are people who believe much stranger things than that.

You can see it in her eyes. She's absolutley two-faced by all accounts. Next thing I know, youre going to tell me Bill is a good guy too. Dubya wasnt evil he was just dumb, right? The brigading is real this weekend.

...I'm pretty sure she chops up children and eats them.......and surrounds herself with Pedo child killers......

Would literally anything change your mind, short of shooting up the pizza place?

If not, then I'm not going to bother.

Must be great to either 1) be a shill or 2) be so brainwashed that you do the work that they pay people to do anyways.

This is something big. Much more than the shit they put on the President Elect. Your arguments are not arguments

Do you want to actually talk about "something big" or are you just here to call me a shill?

I do want to, in fact it really means alot to me to be able to. Unfortunately just slaying anything related to this issue with an ad hominem attack doesn't hold water.

What I want people here to understand is that they are smarter than us at hiding things. The only thing that we can do is follow the money and trust that the people over our heads are doing the same. The circumstantial evidence is just that--circumstantial. But if you look how deep some of it goes it is enough for an intelligent mind to entertain without dismissing entirely.

I say this truthfully; the people there believe in something that you do not believe in and they do not have your best interests at heart.

First off, back off the moral high ground. You don't get to accuse people of ad hominem attacks while calling them either shills or brainwashed.

Second, while there are several conspiracies that deserve at least a thorough investigation, that Hillary "chops up children and eats them" is only worthy of a debunking. That is it.

DNC hacks? Probably intriguing.

Chops up children and eats them? I'm very strongly doubtful but I'm still willing to discuss if you are willing to set a goalpost.

What moral highground did I also take? I dont recall...

Its there if you open your eyes. As above is so below.

Don't bother, they're paid shills. DudeIsCool or whatever is one too.

They have the worst shills, dont they? Pathetic. Sad! It's okay we can remind them what it feels like to win. They probably never did. Never got picked by the good team in gym...

Not taking the bait, sorry.

So no then....

Proud of you!!!!

What kind of an argument is that, even? This is not conspiracy discussion, this is you literally stating you "will not bother", or not engage in the exchange in ideas that is so crucial for this sub to survive.

This thread reeks.

Hey, if you are willing to set a goalpost, I'm willing to discuss. Otherwise, what's the point?

the exchange in ideas that is so crucial for this sub to survive

"...I'm pretty sure she chops up children and eats them.......and surrounds herself with Pedo child killers......"

If these are the best "ideas" you people can put up for exchange, you can keep them. Until you've got something better, I'm down voting this dumb shit when I see it on /r/all.

I mean, he's clearly talking shit with zero justification of his own but there is a link to Laura Silsby (child trafficker) with HRC that is pretty weird. Not that it constitutes cannibalism and pedophilia but its just that; weird.

So the real evidence that Laura was going to sell those kids, as opposed to have them adopted?

She said she likes pepperoni pizza and we all know that's pedophile code for pizza with chopped up childrens genitals on it.

Missing this? /s

How is life in Neverland -- never visited

Clinton and her foundation were involved in child trafficking in Haiti. That is a monster.

Nonsense

Don't speak too much truth, the shills are here to make you sound crazy.

bernie would have won though.. I think everyone mis-underestimates how many people who actually took the time to go vote, which was by far the minority of americans, we're riding the #neverhillary wave for the DNC fuck up.

Yes, and because of all those folks, we all have to pay the price.

"Flawed" is a severe understatement for Clinton. Yes, she was still the lesser of two evils, but she was absolutely horrible. She had decades of lies, secrecy, and corruption that showed exactly what kind of person she was. The problem was that people didn't look nearly as closely at Trump's past as they did at Clinton's.

So she was only somewhat horrible.
And her policies sucked. And the Democratic Party is in shambles. But yeah the Russians,so...

Her policies were the same as Bernie's.

No they weren't. Not even fucking close. If you say that, then you're either an idiot or a paid CTR drone.

LOL - I still don't know what a CTR drone is. That said, enjoy your conspiratorial life.

Ha. I guess you're an idiot then!

How is it even remotely possible that you could make America great again?

It's funny how you're assuming that because I loathe Hillary Clinton, I must think Trump is the shit. Trump is a fucking moron who swept into power because in 2010 SCOTUS ruled that money is the same thing as free speech. Without the fucking disastrous Citizens United decision, the Koch brothers wouldn't have been able to create the Tea Party movement, and without the Tea Party movement, the extremist views that got Trump elected would not have become so popular.

Citizens United also helped to create the Hillary nomination. She is an awful, unlikable, and thoroughly unappealing politician--the only reason she managed to secure so much support is because wealthy string-pullers like Soros were able to legally spend unlimited sums of money to put her in a spoon, make airplane noises, and force her down the throat of the cringing democratic masses. Fucking crazy.

So to answer your weird question: to make America "great again" I would start by repealing Citizens United. If Americans are given back the right to choose their own leadership without the influence billions of dollars of special interest money, then a lot of things would sort themselves out.

Edit: I'm not even a US citizen and I find the whole thing deeply offensive.

I'm with you and sorry for the mixup! I got you confused with a Trumper, obviously

No she was a criminal candidate. One of the ex directors of the FBI said she was the most corrupt candidate to have ever run for president. And the Clinton family is basically a crime family.

Link to the quote, please. No they are not a crime family.

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/303458-former-fbi-official-clintons-are-a-crime-family

Poltical rhetoric. He doesnt name one thing that is criminal

Go do a bit of research for yourself. They have been involved in so many scandals its truly ridiculous. You can start here -> https://spectator.org/hillary-clinton-and-pardongate/

I am aware of the pardons. It wasn't criminal - questionable, yes. Is that the best that you've got?

If you haven't seen this -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKdPaQnZ1DA it's worth a watch. The level of criminality is just, off the charts. As for pardon gate, sure it wasn't 'technically' illegal the president. The president had the power to pardon those people. But the scandal was the people he chose to pardon .. if you can see no wrong with that, then there is no hope.

It was sleazy. So Was Iran-Contra and the war in Iraq. Almost every President has some issue at play

Setting up a server to avoid public records laws is a felony. Doesn't matter what her rationale was or is. Allowing anyone without clearance to access classified materials is also a felony. Both those are matter of public record.

The FBI cleared here. Haven't you heard the news yet? Also, Maj Gen Flynn shared classified materials with another country -- are you going to go after him?

The FBI decided against recommending charges and most certainly did not clear her. I know nothing about the allegations against Flynn, but given that you're already loose with the truth, I'm not sure that you aren't paid by CTR.

If you want to hide your head in the sand of paranoia, be my guest. Clinton was cleared. Clinton's emails --- ooooh -- booga booga.

You can look up the info about Flynn.

I have no idea who the CTR and don't care.

Shill

I'm not brainwashed like you.

yes she is... haha

A breath of fresh air into this echo chamber of bullshit.

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I knew what gib_gibson was saying. It was plenty constructive. Maybe not positive, but constructive.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

The problem is that everyone now lives in an echo chamber of bullshit. There is no longer a central narrative. We are all just living in whatever echo chamber of bullshit we happen to be in.

God is dead? Fine, Christianity was the first narrative to go. We got a bigger problem now - Truth is dead. There is no central narrative now - central narratives are impossible. We're all just stabbing in the dark.

Without God there is no truth. No right and wrong. No moral or immoral. No absolutes. Just a bunch of relative nonsense

It was the same shit with God too buddy, just a bunch of people starting wars over what God REALLY meant. Only this time no one can use God as a fulcrum for their point.

People are human and will argue and fight over anything. Check out a book called Mere Christianity. Philosophical in nature with very compelling points

I've just googled it, and honestly I'm not interested. I don't think the bible is a good basis for morality at all, besides the few morally good, but obvious points made in it.

I think if you need someone to tell you what's good and what isn't, then you can easily be corrupted. In this case by the catholic church or other priests and pastors. If you make your own morality, only marginally inspired by philosophers, and you follow that morality with conviction, then you can't be corrupted.

That is one of the points made in the book. Although people suppress the knowledge, right from wrong is an innate quality that could not be brought about by evolution. The Bible and God will clarify right from wrong in instances not man.

It has been brought about by evolution. Morality doesn't simply not exist without the bible. In addition, the bible is morally wrong in so many ways throughout it's stories.

There's truth out there, it just takes an ending of this division, and rational minds. We call out bullshit on this subreddit, they call out bullshit on /r/politics, and as long as no one leaves into a darker corner of the web and creates more division, we should see progress. Reddit has become a forum to put all ideas on the table, and I'd like to think it's working. The proof is right here.

Edit: not to mentions there are rational people on Trump posts as well saying stuff like "this really isn't as bad as the media makes it sound". That's what we need, for both sides of this.

Right because Hillary wasn't the one to support selling 20% of US Uranium deposits to Russia. Oh right she was. Wikileaks has no Russian ties. Remember Seth Rich?

This isn't about fucking party lines. This is about justice and the TRUTH. Remember what was in the emails? How the DNC fucked Bernie and anyone who stood up for him? How Donna Brazile gave her debate questions ahead of time? How the Hillary campaign actively incited violence at Trump rallies?

The Democratic Party has not addressed their corruption, but they recognized it by firing the chairmen. They ignored it and appointed Nancy fucking Pelosi. I think anyone would realize that nothing will change until the problem is addressed.

And, this is the most important point. Podesta fell for a phishing scheme. Hillary had an unsecured server and, criminally or not, was extremely careless about handling that information. This means that any 14 year old into hacking could have done what supposedly Putin Himself? did. Don't you see how absurd that argument is? The facts are that it was extremely easy for the hack and the leak to be performed. The blame should not be on the Russians for exposing TRUTH due to incompetence on the DNC's part.

Right because Trump wasn't the one to who actually asked Russia to hack Hillary. Oh right he was. Wikileaks has plenty of Russian ties. Remember Roger Stone?

This isn't about fucking party lines. This is about justice and the TRUTH. Remember what was in Trump's speeches? When he said "I think I'd get along very well with Vladimir Putin. I just think so"? How he said he and Putin were "stablemates"? How he refused to release his taxes, basically confirming that he has heavy financial ties to Russia?

The Republican Party has not addressed their corruption, but they recognized it by running a total non-conservative as their candidate. They ignored it and appointed Donald Fucking Trump. I think anyone would realize that nothing will change until the problem is addressed.

And, this is the most important point. Trump is a moron who speaks at a fourth grade level. Beyond that he has a huge ego. This means that any 14 year old into blackmail could manipulate Trump and we're supposed to believe Putin himself wasn't able to do that? Don't you see how absurd that argument is? The facts are that it was extremely easy for Putin to make Trump his cuck. The blame should not be on the Russians for exposing how vulnerable Trump is due to incompetence on Trump's part.

Why can't both narratives be true?

all you've done is proven that both sides have an argument. I'd argue that governmental corruption at the highest level is a little worse than some offensive speak in private or shady business practices, but each person has their 'team' to step up to bat for. Neither was good because of the other - its a faulty argument. South park was prophetic - it was Giant Douche vs Turd Sandwich. Both candidates were regrettable choices.

I wasn't really trying to take a side, only wanted to point out that you can frame the discussion in different ways to make each side look worse in turn. I mean you even did that in your comment:

I'd argue that governmental corruption at the highest level is a little worse than some offensive speak in private or shady business practices, but each person has their 'team' to step up to bat for.

I mean come on, obviously the problem with Trump and what's going on right now goes a little bit deeper than "some offensive speak in private or shady business practices." That's framing, you made the argument about something other than what the mainstream argument is and tried to pass your version off as the real one. If all I've done is proved both sides have an argument then shit I'm happy because they do both have an argument.

no that's just my personal opinion about it. It is no more valid than anybody else's and i'm sorry if I came off differently. That's why I said 'I'd argue' - I wasn't saying i was right.

Also, I don't quite what you're getting at and maybe i'm missing something. What do you mean going a 'little bit deeper'?

It's pretty clear what's going on if you actually read articles and look at what people who matter are saying. Trump may have spoken with Russian intelligence and they may have worked together in some capacity, but they had a common enemy. Hilary Clinton had stood on a platform of aggression towards Russia in regards to the Syrian conflict and I don't think it should be held against them that they preferred Trump as she was openly intimating towards war with them.

The FBI and CIA agree that the most likely source of the hacks was the Russian government, but considering the missteps that Clinton, Podesta, and the DNC took in having unsecured servers and insufficient security on their communications means that almost anybody could have gotten access to this information. The leaked info has not been debunked or proven false at all. Russia uncovered dirt and delivered it for Trump's benefit - I totally agree with that.

As far as 'fairness' and dirt on Trump, i'm honestly starting to wonder if we've heard the absolute worst of it. This guy has been a joke in the public eye for almost 20 years. When it came time for the Dems to take a real shot at him, the worst they could do was some 'locker room talk' that was abhorrent but we've all said some stupid things that we'd probably not like repeated. My point is more that claims against Clinton are not relate-able to a regular person nearly as much as Trump's gaffes.

On top of that, there is a good reason that the FBI didn't reject the information about Clinton as well. The FBI is there to protect the country, and it seems pretty clear that Clinton used the DNC to ensure her nomination in the election. This is one small step away from trying to steal an election, so you have to to believe the FBI was interested in seeing what was going on. I think Clinton has been fairly well protected over the years, but Trump has always been free season to slam ever since he said he wanted to run for president back in the 90s. There is not much ammo left to shoot at Trump, while Clinton seems to have an endless supply left to go through... But again, just my opinion.

This isn't a debate about which side is worse, it's a discussion about how easy it is to portray one side as worse, so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make really. I would agree with everything you said, except that some people think some things are more or less important than other things, and you're right that those differences come down to opinions. I do think it's best that we stop calling what Trump said "locker room talk" though because it wasn't.

I do think it's best that we stop calling what Trump said "locker room talk" though because it wasn't.

To be completely fair, we don't know how much of that was true and how much was ridiculous posturing. Considering the context, taking that conversation overly seriously is a bit of a stretch (again, in my opinion). That does not excuse what he said or the views that he expressed, but I can also understand if there was some hyperbole there. So fair enough - rather than 'locker room talk', what would we call it tho? Bragging over things that may or may not have happened? Do people always tell the truth when they're bragging about their sexual exploits?

The uncertainty goes both ways. If we shouldn't jump to indict Clinton, then we should wait for some legitimate charges towards Trump too before we start calling him a sexual criminal. However, they are totally different charges, which was more my original point. Trump has only actually be proven guilty of some shady business practice and paying people off in the court systems - whether that means he was guilty of things before is not certain as we know people get extorted as well. Maybe some were legitimate and others were not. All we can know for sure is what is on record. Trump's not a great person and certainly not of the character we'd wish for in a president, but Clinton had shown a clear willingness to try to usurp power and I think people are grossed out by that today. The USA was founded in rejection of oligarchy and monarchy - the idea that you had to be born from a certain stock or family to make a difference in the world. If Clinton had won, the last 30+ years of the US Presidency would have been held by 3 family names, and when people started to see her as corrupt, it was over. Corruption is no joke - it even overpowers gender discrimination and racist appeals with its vileness. The 21st Century world is allergic to it, IMO, but that's a larger discussion....

In the end, I hear your point on both sides being a perspective. I just don't think there's a right one of the choices available.

I wouldn't call him a sexual criminal at all and I don't believe the narrative that he is, but I think we can just call it whatever we want. I personally don't like using locker room talk because I think it's deceptive, as a male I have never experienced anything close to that in a locker room or in "guy talk" or whatever, no one casually talks about sexual assault even as a joke. I mean is Trump an evil serial sex abuser? Hell no. Is he a sociopath who doesn't always keep himself in check? I mean probably, just like Clinton honestly.

I think the 'locker room talk' is more to say that it was probably exaggerated speak to make himself look more like a 'bro' or masculine with other guys around. I think psychologically most 'locker room talk' comes from a place of insecurity, and I think Trump's comments that were recorded were probably very similar. Also, sometimes people are saying things in those settings like a stand-up comedian might... the context is implied that they are joking around and it gets too lewd, but when you record it and present it in different context... All these things.

I can't say for sure tho - he may be a very dark creepy dude who makes it very hard to actually come after him, so i'm probably best not sticking up for anybody :P

Is he a sociopath who doesn't always keep himself in check? I mean probably, just like Clinton honestly.

Haha - can't really argue with that.

The worst part is that both are probably true.

And every person got so caught up in which candidate was worse, they failed to see they're the same.

But only on foreign policy and governance of big business.

Domestically, Hillary is without a doubt the more progressive and sensible candidate.

Domestically, Hillary is without a doubt the more progressive and sensible candidate.

I totally agree, but in terms of the rest of the world, I think Trump's isolationist policies will (hopefully) lead to less provocations and more peace world-wide. If he takes that military spending back home, the American people will benefit greatly with both the infrastructure and the work, and now that it's a Republican president doing it, Congress might actually not shoot themselves in the foot for once and let it happen. For the record, I don't think all of that is likely to come true, but 'business as usual' is definitely what Hilary was selling, and I don't know how that was working out either. As gross as Trump is, I'm intrigued by the 'shake-up' factor; if it is minimal, then we are all worse off with the same shitty system and an even worse administrator of it. However, if he can make some major changes in how the money of government is used, it might be an interesting result. Again, i'm not exactly encouraged, but i'm a hopeless optimist by nature....

He wants to expand the military. Plus those major changes to government spending are huge tax cuts and major spending increases. It'd be called a basic Keynesian stimulus except for that the recession is ending (why the fed just raised interest rates). The most insane thing though is he somehow insists that he'll be able to get rid of the national debt by spending our way out of it. You'd be hard pressed to find even the most diehard Keynesian economist insist on something that crazy (a Keynesian plan would say we should be increasing taxes and decreasing spending in a few years to reduce the debt incurred by a Keynesian stimulus).

I can't believe you would compare Hillary's proven nefarious activity with the Russian government (selling $20 million worth of Uranium) to Donald Trump's somewhat flippant remark that he would get along well with Putin if they met?

There's nothing wrong with saying that. There are videos of Putin & Obama shaking hands and laughing it up online if you want to keep splitting hairs. Being nice to your enemy doesn't mean you are bending your knee to their demands; although I could understand after 8 years of Obama how you might think otherwise.

She never sold $20 million worth of Uranium to Russia, that's totally untrue. Maybe you mean 20% of the US reserves of uranium? I'll assume you made a mistake there. Well, she didn't do that either, what she did was approve the sale of 51% of a company, which held those rights, to the Russian nuclear agency. Just be honest please, we don't need this shit. Edit: As one of nine people on the committee on foreign investment in the US.

I apologize I did mean 20%

Was Hillary unaware the sale of that company included 20% of our uranium supply? If so, she's complicit. If not, she's incompetent and also still complicit. I don't see how your explanation should make me feel any better about what she did? Fuck Hillary.

Jesus, so you realize that these are two companies trying to make a deal right? I mean if you're an economic fascist than okay but I'm not comfortable with the state coming in willy nilly and saying "hey you're not allowed to operate in the free market place, socialism helll yeah." No thank you. If you want that then you are a SOCIALIST, that is what socialism is, the direction of production by the state. What you wanted Hillary to do was step in and say that a free market transaction could not take place because the government didn't want it to, and I guess if that's where you're coming from then we just disagree on principle.

I'm not excited about a PRIVATE company wanting to make a business decision that isn't great for the US but the government picking winners and losers is worse. What, is Russia going to nuke us? What exactly are you worried about? Or is Uranium just a scary word?

I'm not worried about anything except for dangerous double standards. I actually think Russia should be our greatest ally right now; we both want to destroy ISIS and maintain our sovereignty. I'm anti-globalist, not anti-Russia lol.

So do you think that the government should be controlling the market or not?

Trump speaks at a fourth grade level to seem relatable to the people he's targeting.

He uses fallacious phrases like "A lot people ___ (think/believe/say)" to appeal to the herd mentality. Asks rhetorical questions with the intention to plant ideas: "Don't you think ___?" or "wouldn't it be a shame if __?"

Then he tops it off by fanning the flames of nationalism. "We are going to make America great again", "we've got to do something about flag burning", "it's time for America to start winning again", "we love our country". This is not because he's a patriot, but because he knows nationalism is an easy target to hit.

Sprinkle in some fancy sounding adjectives to embellish the social strategy he's deploying.

Finally, he doesn't finish a speech without having insulted (passively or directly) an individual, legislature, business, or country. The shock value that this provides gives a jolt to those listening. They either grin from the entertainment or scowl in disgust -- regardless of which it's difficult to look away.

Where is all this evidence to back up all these claims? You and the CIA have something in common.

Okay is this not blatantly obvious satire? How is it that I keep having to point this out... satire

Refusing to release his tax returns basically confirms financial ties to Russia? That is one of the most insane conclusions I have ever heard. If you're being audited, which he proved he is. You would be an idiot to release them to the public. Look it up, almost all tax attorneys say it is professional suicide.

Okay I'll look that up for sure, but you're right that is a ridiculous thing to say, as is

the Hillary campaign actively incited violence at Trump rallies.

You go ahead and look up satire.

Satire? That's how you deflect? Please come with facts and try not to change the subject.

I copied the first comments format precisely to satire it, that should be completely obvious.

I couldn't find the comment. But if that's the case, I apologize for coming at you.

This isn't about party lines.

Takes a stance against one party.

When we realize they are all against us we can move forward. Every single person in Congress needs to be heks accountable for their corruption.

Remember Seth Rich?

The guy who was shot in a DC street late at night? The guy who had no way of getting to the hacked information? The guy who was excited to work for Clinton? The guy whose parents directly asked to be left out of stupid debunked conspiracy theories?

Do you think his parents are in on it too?

How the DNC fucked Bernie and anyone who stood up for him?

According to the headlines you read on The_Donald and Infowars. Even wikileaks directly linked to the_donald on more than one occasion for an overview of them. You really think you were getting unbiased interpretations?

Or one could just look at the emails to confirm that they sabotaged for Bernie. It's all in the verified emails.

Thats what bothers me the most. People deny it, but the proof is 2 clicks away.

I've read them. To be honest, they're typical political bullshit.

As a Bernie supporter, I was pissed. But objectively, was it as bad as Trump's conflicts of interest and sleaze? No. Was that a bigger concern to me than Hillary's voting record and other bullshit? Not really.

If you think there's one smoking gun, post it. But most of the anti Bernie stuff was mild. I think the super delegate support and media time played a bigger role than the DNC. They're still stupid for running her though.

Literally. It's sad

"Wikileaks has no Russian ties"

Stopped reading right there. Lmao and you guys think you're the skeptical ones, but you get spoonfed state propaganda and eat it up.

It looks like CTR is here in force. Such a shame.

Easier to say that than refute what's being said, eh? I get it. It's hard.

oh fuck off

Really, your opening point is easily refuted. The Uranium was owned by Canada and will never leave the US.

I mean, Hillary also didn't sell 20 percent of US Uranium... The Uranium One deal was not Clinton's to veto or approve

Among the ways these accusations stray from the facts is in attributing a power of veto or approval to Secretary Clinton that she simply did not have. Clinton was one of nine cabinet members and department heads that sit on the CFIUS, and the secretary of the treasury is its chairperson. CFIUS members are collectively charged with evaluating the transaction for potential national security issues, then turning their findings over to the president. By law, the committee can't veto a transaction; only the president can. According to The New York Times, Clinton may not have even directly participated in the Uranium One decision. Then-Assistant Secretary of State Jose Fernandez, whose job it was to represent the State Dept. on CFIUS, said Clinton herself "never intervened" in committee matters.

This is stupid, I feel sorry for you

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How do you even being to refute such a thoughtful response?!? /s

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I am going to read about that today. Sounds like most of Reddit right now wrapped up in a bow.

I suppose if we're going to ignore the wake of dead bodies behind Hillary, Charles Manson could be a candidate of equal footing to Hillary, especially given his veracity for slaying celebrities, it would be the most dangerous race of Trump's life.

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Forgive, but it seemed as if you were trying to dissuade OP's observation. That said, both candidates seem to be rather criminal to some degree. It truly was a contest of choosing the lesser evil.

Popular vote discarded? Uh, sorry you can't change the entire system because you don't like the person that won. People in this country have deteriorated so much it's like a bunch of adults with the mindset of a child who's getting put on timeout for the first time.

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Please go back to 1988 and go on from there with a non-bias view. Watch his interviews. He was portrayed during this election as some kind of monster.

To your point, the secret service? The Secret Service is loyal to one person and that's the President. Who cares about the minor details of it, why don't you focus on issues.

We can no longer tell what is going on. A common narrative is now impossible, and its because of the internet.

So the question is what happens to a society when a common narrative is no longer possible. Human societies have always had a central narrative. First religion was destroyed as a central narrative (your opinion may vary on whether that is a good thing or a bad thing), but now even political and economic narratives are no longer possible.

Central narratives are no longer possible for modern societies. There are no longer "truths", even made up ones. This makes society as a concept entirely break down. We are all now simply individuals with no guiding narratives. It's anomie on a scale that has never been seen before.

Am I wrong?

Someone just show me some fucking evidence. "Makes sense" is a bollocky excuse to avoid critical thinking.

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That's exactly the problem. Online activity is easily fabricated. If the mainstream news channels hadn't been corrupted by the effects of mergers, pleasing the shareholders, agenda bias, lowest-common-denominator subjects, dumbed down language, entertainment, and trivia, and hadn't fired or relegated real investigative journalists, then there would be grounds to trust the evidence placed before us.

That's the point of a conspiracy. If you have a structure to integrate all the facts into, an explanation to connect seemingly unrelated things... everything is of course going to make a lot more sense. :)

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Yeah, I already believe that. I also view with suspicion things like Trump's refusal to put his assets in a blind trust (and reluctance to talk about it, as evidenced by his postponement of the discussion). He doesn't want to talk about it because he doesn't want to change it. He wants his kids to be in charge of the family business, and he doesn't have any qualms about powerful world leaders and business execs being forced to keep in mind that whatever they do to Trump's business will be discussed with Trump over dinner, and thus affect them.

Remember when Trump cited his son as a computer expert in a speech? I sure remember. In this subreddit I can actually say that and it won't sound ridiculous. :D

Fake

Now there's the r/conspiracy I know and love.

Omg thank you man. This is exactly what I have been trying to preach too!! This happens on both sides and neither side is grown up enough to admit it.

/r/the_donald is all super tight with Putin now. But like remember when Republicans gave Obama such a hard time for not being tough enough on Russia. Boom the script is flipped. And with Democrats, trying to frame the election as a Russian hack job. Even though they were just dogging Trump for claiming the election was rigged to begin with(and maybe it was, but for him. Idk?!?).

Everyone is just soooo much about beating the other side. "Liberals are fucking scum", and "Republicans are racist bigot assholes"

Then the Republicans claim the Democrats are so out of touch and that they're falling apart. Democrats were saying the same shit in 2008!!! It's like rinse and repeat while the rest get away with all our cash.

It bums me out that none of them will see it. Everyone is more interested in either jailing that bitch or impeaching Drumpf. Sigh.

Yours doesn't make any sense what so ever, though.

Once you stop viewing Donal Trump as a normal candidate but instead a criminal with economic ties to Russian mafia,

Your proof is what? Let me guess. Main Stream "propaganda" News

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Business Casual and a guy with a mic.

Ok.

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Oh...So what you say is the truth and what I say is not real?

Is that your only message?

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Are you still here having others up vote your messages trying to make you look human?

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Do insults make your day better, because you're not winning.

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Makes sense now. You're a feminized male wanting to be seen. This is a compliment.

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Oh...I was being nice. Just stay away from those crappy YouTube videos. They will sway you from the truth.

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It's dangerous to go alone!

Don't be sorry for me. Ive been handing this sub for 9 years and seen it all.

Has Hillary been to court to be questioned on her Email server, while Trump hasnt been for relations with kremlin/russia AFAIK

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Being called to court is fairly common

It's common for the secretary of state to be called to court?

I don't think so.

Fake comment.

What I was thinking is that many can see that in the email server case Hillary is in the wrong, so branding her as a criminal, in the sense of breaking laws, along with other cases that make people dislike her. Like the Benghazi case where multiple requests of increasing security had been sent, but apparantly never reached her office.

While Trump may be very shady and doing borderline illegal things, as long as he has not done an illegal thing he is not a criminal in the same sense as Hillary. And he being a private company, nobody has set expectations of him working for the people, unlike politicians.

From how I understood the original post it assumed Hillary is a criminal based on the conspiracy theories around her, which include way more shady stuff imo than Trump and her having way more detrimental cases against her than Trump. So in my mind you can't count on Trump being a criminal, since he hasn't been close to being convicted as one in court, while one email from Hillarys server has the potential of getting her arrested.

Ignore the troll on troll action.

Let them troll themselves into thinking Killary is good and Trump is bad.

But of course it's the others way around, right? Clinton is bad and Trump is good? Obviously, it'd be crazy to suggest that they're both rich and powerful fucks from opposite sides of the private-public establishment, doing whatever it takes to obtain more power and money no matter how it effects the American people.

What does Hillary Clinton do exactly? How did she get money? We know how Trump did.

Yea you're in a conspiracy sub and you're THIS willfully gullible about Trump. What a fucking joke this sub is. Always was and always will be an incubator for hard right nuttery, not some non partisan gathering of open minds, even if there are plenty of useful idiots here who genuinely believe it is.

You literally don't know that

She was a lawyer initially, which tends to be a pretty lucrative profession. I'd imagine she was also born into some wealth, as her father had successful textile businesses. More recently she's made money from special interests, you can see it all on opensecrets.com and on her tax returns. She has supposedly profited from the CF, getting tons of money from Russia and Saudi Arabia, something I really wouldn't doubt. Along with a number of other scandals and shady dealings they've done a great job at covering up.

Trump was born into wealth. His father had a successful real-estate business that was subject to multiple investigations regarding profiteering during WWII, and racial scandals. Trump used these connections, and a $50,000,000 loan from his father, to expand this real-estate empire, create a media personality for himself, and to branch into many other businesses (many of which are/were surrounded with scandals and lawsuits). More recently, we don't know because he refused to release his tax returns, something I personally find very worrying, because unlike Clinton, we don't know to where his money has been going or coming. All these scandals, shady dealings, and just plain fucking people over (eg. Stiffing his workers and Trump "University") is out there for us to see.

They're both in the 1% and doubtfully have average Americans' interests at heart. The difference is Clinton knows how the country works (and might have done the bare minimum to keep the middle class from totally dying out just to keep the status quo), while Trump only knows how upper management business works. All this "Trump isn't part of the establishment" is bogus because the establishment is not just a public sector entity, it's the unholy union of wealthy folks in the public and private sector looking out for each other over the good of average Americans. Trump is not a champion of the working class, he is an establishment elite who's known nothing but affluence his entire life.

Ignore the troll on troll action.

Who you accusing of being a troll?

The other guys.

Who are the other guys?

I can't go back to see it anymore...can't find the comments.

Trolls are buying accounts, they pay for upvoted ones. So if you see odd trends suddenly in places you wouldn't expect them, like the crap we see all of a sudden in r/conspiracy, it's because they intentionally came here to sway us.

But they paid for those upvotes, y'all.

Hint hint

It's also really eerie when I talk with people (like my entire family) who pay no attention whatsoever to what is going on in the nation (U.S.) and the world at large. There is just this very eerie disconnect, it's like they live on a completely different planet and it almost feels like I'm having a weird dream when talking to them sometimes. Just this sort of eerie calm of none of it is real, the government isn't real, Syria isn't real, let us focus on this funny picture on my facebook account and talk about what we will have for dinner and I just feel creeped the fk out. Love them bunches but they creep me the fk out.

Nope, I'm sure there at least a few million. And yeah that is a very creepy and agitating feeling. Like when you just try to talk about an important topic that is directly related to our country, and people just sort of look at you with a mixture of unease and pity, like you're insane. But then pretend like none of it is real or happening. Trips me the fk out. It's even preferable when people start spouting off their brainwashed beliefs, like at least they acknowledge that the rest of the world EXISTS lmao.

I'm definitely due for a little de-stress break, myself. Music and video games for a day.

an important topic that is directly related to our country, and people just sort of look at you with a mixture of unease and pity, like you're insane.

Jesus said, "Do not cast your jewels before swine." Best things to do is drop tiny gems here and there. An article every once in a while, a simple 'Did you know that....." comment wrapped in humor, a fact wrapped in meme clothing, etc. That's how you do it and you have to understand a lot of this is too big for most people who simply want to numb themselves from our existence here via: TV, alcohol, Drugs, Cuckbook, Pron, etc.

And that, ladies and genitals, is the biggest conspiracy of them all, the fact that we aren't even from here. We are Spirits, trapped in a prison shell flesh suit on a prison planet enslaved by debt, currency, propaganda, wage, 40-60 hour work weeks, etc. And you won't get to go on any retirement until its time for your suit to die anyway.

And this is why there is universal need/want to numb ourselves from this existence, is because its an artificial simulation and not our real home

Sorry dude, as shitty as this reality is, it's not a simulation. Our souls came here with purpose. This is just one of many places to be incarnated in. However given the amount of corruption, tyranny, and wage slavery, it took many many developed souls to come here and make the change. Although we haven't been able to free humanity from its chains in the past, such won't be the case this time around. Apocalypse will probably happen, maybe not to the extent people think, but it will take a big change like that for things to change. We're on the brink on waking up. It's almost time.

Sorry dude, as shitty as this reality is, it's not a simulation

That's the thing, if it is, you wouldn't know it and it would be a preposterous idea to propose, and yet you can't prove that it's not. Have you ever been in a dream and you become lucid and realize that it's not real? What just moments prior, you thought/felt 100% sure was real, now becomes unreal, and yet the brain created everything it needed to fool you. Same deal with waking life.

I'd spend some time reading these 2 with an open mind.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/11/simulated-world-elon-musk-the-matrix

http://hardcorezen.info/are-we-living-in-a-computer-simulation/4560

The proof whether it is, or not, will soon be able to be tested:

http://www.washington.edu/news/2012/12/10/do-we-live-in-a-computer-simulation-uw-researchers-say-idea-can-be-tested/

Also goes in line what Buddhism and Mysticism has taught for Millennia

Also give this video a watch, sent to me by a fellow redditor to back these points:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMBt_yfGKpU&app=desktop

Everytime I experience DMT, I always come out postulating that perhaps the DMT world is the real reality.

The nature of reality isn't the point. The point is to completely wake up from it. If anything, reality is more like a dream. Once we truly realize we have no limitations, we could do anything. Call me a mystic, crackpot, whatever, but I know that we're only limited in what we can do because we are told so.

I agree but only to a point. Right now we are limited to these bodies and limited by IQ points. I think Genetically engineering humans and A.I. Merging will allow us to transcend that as well.....not sure if that's a good or bad thing though

I wouldn't ever do it. Our understanding of evolution is flawed at best. Science doesn't really accept that species can have booms in evolution. This is going to happen in a time of great need, just as every other mutation occurs. There will be those who merge more with machinery, and those that merge more with nature/life/whatever you want to call it. We're limited in these bodies because we think we are. We're limited by IQ because we think we are. IQ doesn't properly determine intelligence in every area. Our bodies are misunderstood because they are seen as meat-suits. However this is not the case. Everything is made up of energy, and so are we. We are vibrating, oscillating, energetic particles that interact with the energies around us. Once you start thinking of reality as energetic instead of physical, you'll see strange things start to happen.

We're limited in these bodies because we think we are. We're limited by IQ because we think we are. IQ doesn't properly determine intelligence in every area. Our bodies are misunderstood because they are seen as meat-suits. However this is not the case. Everything is made up of energy, and so are we. We are vibrating, oscillating, energetic particles that interact with the energies around us. Once you start thinking of reality as energetic instead of physical, you'll see strange things start to happen.

Its a combo of energy that is living inside of a meat suit...but I'll tell you what, if you say we only are limited because we believe in these limits, then by all means prove me wrong by substantiating some sort of act to support this theory. Write me an equation the likes of which would have come from Einstein, whose brain was 15% larger in certain areas the normies...or defy the limits of the body on camera

I'm not saying there's no correlation between matter and consciousness. But matter is a byproduct of consciousness. Math and science are a way of looking at the universe. Look how much we HAVEN'T progressed in science. Our theorems are on the verge of being proven wrong. Obviously I can't give you an equation like that, because I know that math and science is a secondary way of looking at the universe. Why specialize in something that isn't the best aspect of it? Why be a vet tech when you can be a vet? Why be a nurse when you can be a doctor? I could study these equations and attempt to prove them wrong, OR I could not waste my time. Other people will figure out that our equations don't add up. That isn't a job I chose to do. I'm not here to say that my opinion is the ultimate truth, because it isn't. Everyone's thoughts and opinions create their reality. More and more people are being led to choose science or spirituality. These are connected, but are still opposing poles. Most people are in the middle, but as people choose a side, our collective reality will have to split in some way. War could be this. Depending on your beliefs, an event can put you in one or the other reality.

I can say right now that if that happened, that technology, understanding the fault of human existence, would wipe us out as quickly as possible and resource to fixing the planet and rocketing off all the pollution to the sun to begin. Only certain human genes would be kept for breeding. Maybe

Whether or not this reality is a simulation is greatly obscured by the fact that we ONLY ever experience the simulation of reality that is produced by our minds. I tend to think that's where the idea comes from – because yes, there is a very computer-simulation motif going on here, one that's extremely noticeable on high doses of psychedelic drugs. We are seeing – I believe – a 3D construct filled with procedurally-generated objects (I have witnessed their construction).

The counterpoint to this would be that the simulation isn't actually inside our biological brains but on some alien computer somewhere, and the brain is just an illusion to lend legitimacy to the idea that the world is as it appears.

I don't know who said it – maybe Alan Watts? – but I really like the notion that we have two heads. We have the head that we feel when we touch it with our hands, but there's also the other head that is reality as we perceive it, because all that – including what we consider to be our physical head – is actually inside our head, generated by our brain. So you've got a head inside a head.

Apocalypse is Now

This is a nice way to look at it. Thank you, that gave me a little bright feeling of hope.

Although we haven't been able to free humanity from its chains in the past, such won't be the case this time around. Apocalypse will probably happen, maybe not to the extent people think, but it will take a big change like that for things to change.

Yeah, since no previous generation has ever had anybody who figured the end of the world was just around the corner, right?

Did I say that I was a Messiah? Did I say I came up with an idea nobody had? No, but you can feel free to make assumptions if you choose to be misguided.

Did I say I came up with an idea nobody had?

Did you think for some reason that I was accusing you of originality? Never even crossed my mind.

Then you might want to learn how to arrange your words to properly express how you mean to express them. It's pretty simple really.

reality is, it's not a simulation

Apocalypse will probably happen

So a simulation is out of the question, but a seven headed dragon flying out from the pit of hell and over our cities, zombies raising from their graves as the stars fall from the sky and the seas turn to blood is totally plausible.

K.

How did what I say have anything to do with whatever the hell you just came up with? Apocalypse isn't a universal term

Wow youre a nasty person. Go punch a wall or something, sicko.

Nah dawg, the comment made no fucking sense

Haha, I leave this thread for the main page for ONE second and see this thread. Yep.

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Our souls have incarnated here, on this Earth, in this plane of existence with a purpose, but this entire playing field has been hijacked by parasites of mind and consciousness. The Gnostics understood what this force was and called the beings of it the Archons. This archontic influence is corralling beings away from the path of light, by superimposing their own simulated structure over the organic one that is our birthright as beings of this universe.

I think that your comment and the one you responded to are both spot-on, and not incompatible with each other.

Sorry dude, as shitty as this reality is, it's not a simulation. Our souls came here with purpose.

I don't think these views are incompatible, or even necessarily different. From the perspective of a soul incarnated in a world which it is not of, does it really matter whether this world was created bit by bit in a vast computer, or created within the mind of God? Both of these hypotheses are but crude and wholly insufficient metaphors to grope at a reality that we cannot even begin to grasp with language. And if it is some being(s) who created this as a "simulation" of sorts, would they have put us here with no purpose? I can't imagine why they would go through the trouble.

I think a better term that covers both options would be imagined reality. In either case, whether we're the imaginings of a machine, or the imaginings of God/the universe, the world is technically illusory. Either way, there can't be no purpose of existence.

I sincerely hope you're right but even though I'm not as old as Who musicians I fear we have been fooled again and again and again.

There is no way you can possibly know or prove that this reality isn't a simulation, and yet you state it as fact. There is also no way you could know or prove that our souls came here with purpose, or that we even have souls. Humans have legitimately no clue where they are, who they are, or even what they are. Infinite things are happening inside infinities inside infinities, any reality or all realities or no realities could be simulated or not and it wouldn't make any difference, because realities are just individual eternities inside individual eternities inside eternal individual eternities, but then again, no they're not. Everything is as much as it isn't, or isn't, it doesn't matter, or maybe it does, I don't know. Speaking in affirmatives is something humans shouldn't do, probably.

You're saying there are infinite realities as if you know it as a fact. There could be one. There could be 5. Pepole state things they believe as facts. It's not something we always realize we do. I know I can't know for sure, it's just much more likely (to me) that we're in an imagined reality than a simulated one

Actually, I didn't state anything as fact, all of my statements were qualified or de-qualified with equal opposing statements. I unstated everything I stated, and acknowledged the equal and opposite truth in each truth, and would acknowledge the possibility of an infinite number of potential truths. You literally said, sorry, it's not a simulation, which seems odd to me since you're apologizing for something that is unknowable as if you know that it must be apologized for, and as if it's you who must apologize for it. Seems a little odd and presumptuous is all.

Well said. People who think reality isn't reality tend to believe the universe is simulated or a dream-like world. This being a simulated reality would conlict with our free will, which you could argue we do not have because simulations don't have free will. The test then would be to see how far our Will stretches. This is largely undocumented in science because of "unreplicable" results (because the same will/intent is not there).

I don't mean to come off as arrogant, it's just that in comparing those two options, simulation seems highly unlikely. A lot of prole propose the simulation but don't go further than that. Whats the purpose? Who is the creator? Why do anything if you knew you were in a simulation?

That last question leaves a gap in the theory. Unless the purpose of the simulation were to see how we react in the face of that Truth? Simulation seems out of the question, and of course that could just be a reaction to not being able to accept that Truth, but so many people wouldn't have knowledge and memories of past lives and other dimensions were that not actually the Truth.

I'm really wanting to find holes in either theory. I'd want to know whatever the Truth was

Why would you assume that a simulation couldn't have free will? There's no real theoretical limit to how powerful a computer could be, especially when you take into consideration that we're already dabbling in things like organic computer technology or quantum computing, as well as decoding our own genome and theorizing electronic data storage on DNA strands. Computers in the future may very well share our very DNA. They could be so powerful that they could not only 'sim' a human brain, but millions of them, and could maybe actually 'sim' an atom, or an electron, or a quark or an entire universe of atoms and molecules. Suppose it could 'sim' the behavior of zillions of subatomic particles; 'sim' a totally functional universe comparable to our own in every way right down to the smallest indivisible particles. Math is math, energy is energy. It doesn't really matter if it's flowing through a galaxy or a circuit board, I'd struggle to see how energy is any different inside of a simulation than in a 'real world'. What is a 'real world', anyway in this context? I mean, in the context of ETERNITY, does a 'real world' by default hold more importance or value or meaning or significance than a 'simulated world'? Why would that be? If the two worlds are both complex mathematical realities made up of some combination of energy and matter and integers, then I'd have trouble distinguishing what makes one more real than the other at all. I feel like there's this Matrix misconception that simulation = fake/bad/scary. I think that's a narrow way to look at it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvS0wYB09Ew

drug me

I don't want to think Don't make me care I wanna melt in with the group I need the balls To leap out of my shell And let go with my friends

Can't come up with anything I want to do I need a project I can finish My brain needs some stimulation DRUG ME DRUG ME DRUG ME DRUG ME DRUG ME

I'm so fucking tired I gotta stay awake I'm runnin' late I gotta make it thru the day And make my time go by

TV and the stereo and girls are lots of fun I want the max I relate better loaded 'Gotta see that movie stoned'

DRUG ME DRUG ME DRUG ME DRUG ME Drug me with natural vitamin C

Drug me with pharmaceutical speed

Drug me with your sleeping pills

Drug me with your crossword puzzles

Drug me with your magazines

Drug me with your fuck machines

With a fountain of fads

More rock and roll ads

DRUG ME DRUG ME DRUG ME ME ME

Finally off of work Unwind and watch the ball game at the bar Another potato chip weekend Is here at last

Go away Go away Go away Go away Go away Leave me alone So I can't see myself DRUG ME DRUG ME DRUG ME

Good job. Bedtime for Democracy also provides a powerful dose. Maybe now more than ever.

i think this is my favorite song of all time. i bought that album at least 3 times and i still dont have a copy.

hahahaha...no shit, me too... DK and jello were prophets. i still can't believe that i am living in a world where their vision is a reality.

so wait... youre pointing out the conspiracy that the devil is real and everything else is a distraction so we dont focus on a relationship with our creator whhaaatt??!!

WTF man.

Fully agree. I'd say communism memes (tumblr, r/fullcommunism) are probably the main reasons my generation is skeptical of this crony capitalism

I'm sorry if you find this offensive but I'm gonna try and explain this to you in a really simple way. All those things you just talked about Facebook, TV, alchohol, etc... Those distractions that try and pull us put of the real world. That's what religion is for. That's it's sole stated purpose. Religion is saying don't worry if your life sucks now because it's all just a test and then when you die that's when you get the good stuff. Religion is saying if you're oppressed don't worry about it because you won't be when you die. You know who benefits from that? The elites. The elite have always been the oppressors, the people with the money get all of the power. However in history the oppressed always eventually rise up in some violent revolution. So how do you fix that? You either do one of two things. You remove the oppressing class. (Which would be true Marxist communism) or you make the oppressed think that they aren't oppressed or that their oppression is a good thing. That's what religion does. It presents these true world theories. That this isn't the real world and you don't need to worry about suffering while you're here because after death you get to the "true world". Don't buy into that. Don't suffer on the hope that their is life after death because it doesn't really matter until after you die so why fucking worry about it? Be the best person you can be and be kind to people and give to charity if you can but do it because you want to help people not because you think God wants you to. And if God is real after you die and he is the correct God not one of the thousand other gods. I'm sure it'll go well. Hope this explains why you shouldn't think that way.

Hope this explains why you shouldn't think that way.

You're partially correct, in terms of Religion used to control masses, I agree. However, that does not negate that we are Spirits as our true identity.

Also, Religion hasn't prevent the uprising of violent revolutions which have continued throughout history and still continue today.

Also you can take religions like Buddhism, which aren't about controlling masses but instead is like a Science of Self investigation and the maps of the inner territory, basically a set of Blueprints to find your true self.

Also, I remember existing before being born in a body, as Pure Spirit, bodiless. There are others like us:

http://www.prebirthmemories.com/prebirth_memories.htm

So in a sense, the partially correct muddled idea that 'Religion' is to control the masses, also works to keep people from discovering their own true self and Spiritual strength/power. Its a double edge sword

We are Spirits, trapped in a prison shell flesh suit on a prison planet enslaved by debt, currency, propaganda, wage, 40-60 hour work weeks, etc

One correction - or clarification in case you agree: we are not trapped.

The high point in our reality is soul cultivation with experiments inside experiment programs within meta-experiments. We are flesh vessels living through that, but it's an amazing time to be alive, observing change get acceleration in technology and spirituality.

We must remove our mind from this negative realm, but we can still keep pushing a loving, service to others attitude, this includes communicating in this same way with our density superiors.

One correction - or clarification in case you agree: we are not trapped.

It depends.....you can love your prison or hate it. Many of the Mystery schools, Buddhism, Bon, Dzogchen, etc of antiquity which have as their main premise that of Spiritual Enlightenment, eventually gain the ability to OBE at will, and what do they find on the other side?

That we are imprisoned within a cycle of reincarnation over and over and over again and the only way out is to attain Enlightenment.

So technically speaking, you can justify this earthly existence in as many ways as there are people and religions......but what I want to know is what's true, not what justification will work for me. Because if its undoubtedly true that we are imprisoned in reincarnation, then for all of us here, the number 1 priority should be to escape it

We must remove our mind from this negative realm, but we can still keep pushing a loving, service to others attitude, this includes communicating in this same way with our density superiors.

I'm still all for love, change, service, helping, upliftment, etc....but I still think, feel, am leaning towards the reincarnation prison

I asked my wife (an avid Democrat) about Wikileaks, p8gate, email servers, etc and her response was, "what are you talking about?!"

I further explained that that I firmly believe that the stage is set for a civil war and she completely dismissed me as being a lunatic.

It's sad. I have two kids and I have an obligation to shield them from the impending narrative. I lived through tail end of the Cold War and I don't want my kids exposed to this bullshit.

Wife and I disagree on this uncertain future. I see some positivity on the horizon, but she blames everything on "the president you voted far".

With all the information out there regarding the "allegations" it's like the Facebook generation lives in their digital bubble.

This stuff with Russia makes the wacky conspiracy theory that Trump is John Titor seem plausible. The Titor revelation of informed Americans siding with Russia over the indoctrinated and elites was completely dismissed back in the 90's but we find ourselves on the brink of this outcome so many years later.

The glaring fallacy here is thinking that Russia has our (America's) best interest at heart. That a leader who spent his entire career as a KGB official with the US as the counterweight / bad guys now just wants to be friends. That global politics is not a zero-sum power game and that for Russia to further their power on the global level, the US must be weakened and withdraw.

This is not a situation of "informed Americans siding with Russia". It's a situation of Americans facing extreme cognitive dissonance, and now choosing to believe Putin is suddenly a benevolent force with America's interest at heart rather than accepting that US public opinion was manipulated by a foreign power to elect an isolationist and comparatively unqualified candidate that will weaken the US on a global stage and open space for Russia's global power to grow.

Russia's loyalty is only to Russia, and Putin's loyalty is only to himself and his country. That's it.

You do realize that there aren't sides? Just people. Russians don't want a war. And neither do Americans. Only those that profit want war. And they'll exploit anything they can for money.

Have you seen that picture of trump and Putin on the horse together?Bad hombres.

This one?

Nobody is saying that Russia isn't acting in its own interests. Their interests just happen to be not getting annihilated in WW3 to serve global elitists.

Of course, but 8 years down the road when Russia has emerged strengthened after a Trump presidency, who's to say they won't be willing to engage in wars?

Speaking of john titor, do you have a link to a collection of his posts?

I'm mostly just curious of what he said.

She's right.

It's sad. I have two kids and I have an obligation to shield them from the impending narrative.

I don't have kids, and honestly I'm not sure if I want to given what I see coming, but to some extent, shielding them will make it harder for them to navigate the world they will be handed at adulthood. I know you want them to have a happy childhood, and I'm not suggesting you inundate them with all the worst you've learned of this world, but if you want them to be able to turn some of it around when they're old enough, now is the time to teach them the critical thinking skills which they will certainly not learn in common core schools.

I redpilled my 13 year old. She's a phenomenal person and deserves the truth.

When they're tiny it's different. You can't exactly say "our society is run by psychopaths!" But, we can teach them to go outside, to contribute, to take responsibility for their own actions and emotions (HUGE!) and to always ask questions.

They are young (2 and 3) so they have a ways to go. I want them to know a life outside of "safe spaces". I want them to grasp critical thinking. That will be most important.

Except her Presidential choice was a criminal and known corrupt government official. But try telling her that.

I further explained that that I firmly believe that the stage is set for a civil war and she completely dismissed me as being a lunatic.

Well, yeah. Because it's not realistic. I mean are you going to shoot your wife? That's what a civil war is, brother against brother. Are you going to kill your wife? Is she going to kill you? If Glenn Beck told you to machete your neighbor's kids to death, are you ready to do that? That's something that happens in real civil wars.

I'm certain we're 100% on opposite sides of nearly every major issue facing the body politic right now. But I have a hard time believing you're prepared to camp out in the cold and shit in a cathole just for the chance to shoot me in the face. I'm sure as hell not gonna. I have a hard time believing you'd start by firing on your wife or that she'd start by firing on you. I mean your marriage is living proof that no civil war is coming, because if you and her were prepared to finally resolve these disputes with force you'd start with each other.

But you haven't. And won't. It's not necessary.

c'mon, of course not. Rather, I want her to understand that we need to be cautious. She gets all her "news" from Facebook; this scares me.

Unfortunately, it is brother versus brother when I can be assaulted for wearing a Trump t-shirt.

She gets all her "news" from Facebook; this scares me.

And yours from Reddit (or Breitbart)? How do you think that makes her feel? I agree with you - it's really concerning how it seems like there's two camps of people who fundamentally can't seem to articulate any shared truth about the world around us. But the reason that's not going to lead to actual civil war is because of your marriage. I mean, not only your marriage, but what it represents - you and I don't recognize almost any shared feature of reality, but somehow we both still recognize a society that has us both in it. As bad as some of the eliminationist rhetoric got during the election, I never heard Trump say anything like "you know, we'd really all be better off without all these Democrats."

Unfortunately, it is brother versus brother when I can be assaulted for wearing a Trump t-shirt.

By your brother? Otherwise, no, it's not "brother versus brother" by definition.

She gets all her "news" from Facebook; this scares me.

And where do you get your news? Drudge? Infowars? Breitbart? Consider that that's just as scary to other people as her getting her news from Facebook is to you. If you get your news from sites of that ilk, you have to consider that there is a political spin there that you don't see because it reinforces your worldview and confirmation bias. You look as insane to other people as your wife looks to you. I mean, I feel like it's a madhouse when known conservative shills like Sean Hannity are sidling up to Julian Assange like they didn't think Chelsea Manning was a traitor and trying to embrace a narrative that leaks are patriotic, when they've argued just the opposite for years.

Wake people up with this. Wait until you see the look on a lefty's face when you are able to explain the implication of the Portman Murphy bill which secretly passed the house and senate then got signed into the 2017 national defense budget as a line item. The bill looks anti-trump but it is not. It gives Trump's exxon run state department almost unlimited powers of media and public ngo propaganda. You dont have to imagine a Trump department of digital bubble propaganda. He just got sign into law his own federalized CTR. Not a joke. Check it out.

I will read through this. Thanks for the heads up.

What you gona play?

Same feeling for me as well btw

E: The Long Dark is great therapy

I think I'm about to break out Twilight Princess myself.

Anyone for some Halo?

Are you joking?

I never joke about Halo. Love that game.

1v1 guardian MLG settings

ill fcking trash ur ass u piece of shit lvl 32 staff captain cock sucking beta-cuck

bring the GODDAMN NOIIIIIISE let me outta the bag onto ur ass i'll sick ya like a damn lion on a sorry ass house cat

Overwatch is pretty fun.

Unreal tournament 20 years ago was better

Well then you can go live 20 years ago.

Not until we get our hands on Tesla's time travel device!

Username Checks Out

+1 for long dark

Rising Storm 2

I haven't played that game since, like, alpha or beta. I put a solid 15 or 20 "consecutive" hours into it, but then kinda lost interest. It was also difficult as shit. I think I scoured the area I started in and stripped it of all resources and then had to grind super hard just to survive a few minutes at a time.

Is it worth picking back up?

I think most people know deep down but don't want to acknowledge it. I had a friend I used to try to explain things too and he would vehemently deny it no matter how much proof was given. He finally told me one day he knew I was right he just didn't like thinking about that stuff and would rather be ignorant to it. I think that's how most people feel

I just had one of these conversations with a buddy of mine yesterday. He completely believes that everything on TV is reality. Hillary was proven innocent. There is no pedophilia going on in Washington. There is no way they could cover all this stuff up. Snopes is right 100&% of the time. I could go berserk. But, one thing I have learned when trying to talk to people about these topics now, is to just ask the important questions to get them thinking, and then they don't feel so threatened. They feel that they are in control of thinking about it. Then the seed will grow and they will hear about it elsewhere and hopefully they will start researching it and start falling into some rabbit holes.

edit spelling

That's been happening for the entire history of mankind to be honest.

Most people would prefer that those in power just let them be with their lives, and not have to worry about it.

May parents and family do it to me all the time. I have a younger bro by 10 years - he gets it.

welcome to the rabbit hole its dazzling but a fun ride cuz your head is screwed on straight!

lots of twists ahead but always remember you are not alone in this

And there is no coming back.

Hey man I was feeling the same way until I talked to a younger guy yesterday which restored a little faith in humanity for me. This guy is 19 and i assumed he was just like all the other kids of our generation because of the way he carried himself and because he sells weed/party/be the class clown at work etc. But he told me he likes to read books which caught me off guard since I don't know anybody who still reads a book. Anyways, he starts talking to me about how his friend at a local grocery shop recommended it from their book section and when he described what it was about, it sounded similar to The Finders cult group/PizzaGate and i asked him was this book based on true events and he said yeah. Then I said how that sounds like this group called The Finders and how they were a pedophile cult, to which he got excited and said that THAT was the name of the book but he couldn't remember the whole name but that THAT is what was going on in the book.

I was fucking surprised. This kid has stumbled upon the rabbit hole without even knowing and I'd like to think that whoever his friend was at that store who recommended the book, he was just nudging him towards it.

You'd be surprised. A silent majority of us Gen Y kids are woke af. We feel the sense of impending dread in this world because we've been connected to it for our whole lives short as they may be. And it would be us who is left to pick up the pieces. A lot dabble in plain illuminutty conspiracy theories but only because we see how fucked up the world is. We "party" because we don't really know what our future is in store for us, and all things considered how could we ever know? It's obvious so many were brainwashed to never think about something past surface level. And that's why we don't share how we feel about this unless we know you've seen it too. Because this used to be the type of shit that gets you sent to the psych ward if you weren't careful. Kind of like an old time alchemist I know of didn't trust anyone who didn't smoke cigarettes too. It seems to be the culture. Some embrace it better than others. Others are doomed to never see it coming. Such is life

I've noticed this in your younger generation (i'm right between GenX and Millennials myself)... Very aware compared to previous generations, and the 'lazy unmotivated' trope is only there because so many of you refused to play 'the game' that the older generations prize so much.

As far as sharing information, for me personally I have come to the realization that you don't get anywhere with people by giving them answers to questions they aren't asking. I try to be hyper-aware of anybody who wants to engage on these subjects and explore the mystery along with them if they're open to it, but if somebody is not asking 'why?' then these ideas and realizations are not important to them. On top of that, they are generally kinda uncomfortable things to think about as well if you don't see the bigger picture of it all or don't have hope that we can pull ourselves through it.

I think there will be events in the future where those people will starting asking 'Why?' more than they do now, and I think it is going to be our role to help them understand some of these things and deal with the aftermath. I think people will be very surprised with how much compassion the younger generations have for the world. I believe they are just less particular with whom they show that compassion for. The world is connected like never before.

Dude regarding your realization regarding sharing answers...

Fuck yeah.

So wise, man.

You crush it.

are woke af

The arrogance of that statement only shows you are in deep sleep.

How? I read that to mean they look past the surface level of what the media tells them, probably because they grew up with access to more information than previous generations did

Information controlled by 5 corporations and a myriad of schizophrenic bloggers.

Lol okay edgelord but the fact that you dismiss it so easily proves that you've let it get to you We're all in our own trip, yours ain't better than mine and mine ain't better than yours.

The nature of reality is not even understood, yet youre "woke af". To top off the arrogance sundae you call me an "edgelord". Lmao youre the definition of edgelord. Truly a "woke", enlightened fedora after all.

Link to the finders http://www.thepeopleshistory.net/2014/03/the-finders-cult.html

You're just having a hard time seeing through the bullshit. Both sides are trying to sell you their version of reality. Your problem is you fervently believe one set of lies while dismissing the others, creating a cognitive disconnect they use to their advantage.

Do you believe there are just 2 sides?

Good point.

Ok let's do this. Why do you think Hillary will be put in jail?

he's just talking about empathy, really

I now feel like I'm on another planet and borderline insane.

Sorry to tell you this but, that's what it feels like to be brainwashed by cult politics and conspiracy theories while surrounded by normal people. I spent a few years checking out online conspiracy theory people. What you experience is normal for them.

It's just becoming more widespread with alternative politics on the Internet.

No, I've seen both, this is different. People really are dying in Syria. It's bad over there. The UN Ambassador really was lying in an effort to push for more bloodshed and suffering, for the sake of power. That Canadian journalist is a one in a billion hero for being brave enough not only to leave the comfort of her home to go into a war zone, but then to speak the truth in front of the entire world once she had it. I was moved as fk by her courage, integrity and love for fellow humans.

And then I wanted to talk with someone about it, but I couldn't. Know why? Because it's a "conspiracy theory". That's why it is more "widespread". Check yourself.

America doesn't need to play world police in Syria

Syria hasn't been trending on social media for days or anything.

I stumbled on Eva Bartlett's Facebook a few months ago and was like "WHATTTTT!!!????" and I became obsessed and tried to share her posts on my page and engage in discussions about it, but eventually stopped because I can't be bothered any longer to deal with the straight up anger of some people who disagree.

It's what led me to Reddit actually. Hoping to find a place to engage and learn from people who don't just discount anything not on MSN or CNN.

I'm right there with you. Didn't really hit me until I read your comment. It definitely feels like I'm on another planet. My whole family are Hillary supporters (probably Bernie for most but switched when he didn't get the nomination. That's a whole other thing). I didn't support her or trump. And when I talk about anything regarding emails or criminal activity I'm met with fierce resistance or flat out denial from everyone but my sister (probably most level headed). I even fee the same way with my wife who is a trump supporter.

We're definitely being fed an alternate reality and it's infuriating seeing that people are denying it believing everything the media is throwing at them. It doesn't take much to do a bit of research or be critical of what you see and hear.

As a Bernie supporter, I'm most confused by those Bernie supporters who weren't effected by the Wikileaks. For me, it was transformative. The media, the DNC, govt collusion, all have changed me forever. After reading the emails, there was no way I could vote for HRC. I voted Stein.

I know a couple people that went Stein after supporting Bernie. Otherwise they stayed with the party. But why...the one I saw most outspoken about it is anti-third party. If Bernie represented real change and anti-establishment type politics why move support to someone that keeps the status-quo and is the establishment? Makes no sense. I never supported Bernie because my views/beliefs are pretty much the exact opposite of his but I did admire his honesty and integrity, something you don't see a lot in politics now. I was sad to see how he was being treated and the emails and everything else just put the final nail in the coffin regarding any possible support for Hillary I had (it was about the millionth nail).

You are not the only one.

Nearly everything on the news is a lie. Even the "1%" diatribe.

We are the people who know. Who strive to understand the truth by deciphering the lies. The ones who care....

We are the 1%

Yes you are a very special snowflake.

You completely missed it.

Let me guess....you know your "side" is always "right" -----or is it left?

yeah it is very frustating. because this stuff is so important and you just can't talk about it.

[deleted]

What policies of Clintons attacked free speech?

The newest legislation being 'pushed through' regarding 'fake news

What bill are you referring to? I'd like to read it or see a breakdown of it.

No, you are not the only ones. People really seem to be living in a false reality. It's rather creepy.

I had a friend explain on Facebook why she stayed in her bubble... she's just too sensitive to expose herself to the horrors of the world. So she goes on dates and trips and is the most self absorbed person I have ever met.

Sounds like my sister. Some people just prefer to not know, and I can respect that. I just am not put together that way.

Sounds like a cool super power to me!

I do kind of wish I could turn my brain off to things that are unpleasant!

I'm constantly arguing with people about what the NYT said, or what Wapo said, or this Russia nonsense.

We're just 'conspiracy' theorists.

We aren't "just" anything.. We're one of the only hopes for humanity at this moment

That's such an over the top statement I don't even know how you make it through the day.

You're a keyboard warrior, not a real one.

It isn't, actually. This is a war on our consciousness. A systematic dumbing-down. Mankind has been in slavery for thousands of years. No shit we aren't "The Rebellion". There is no one force that will do that. It takes everyone to rise up, everyone to WAKE UP, and the only way to do that is to share the truths you know and make them spread like wildfire. We are warriors. It's your own ignorance that makes you blind to it.

Alex Jones is many things (I can't believe I'm using him as an example) but the one thing he is absolutely correct about is that the next war will be the war of information. That's why he named his organization InfoWars. Whether or not you agree with anything else he says, it's very hard to argue against that premise.

That being said, those "keyboard warriors" are like the infantry when the war is over information, so you might not want to be so dismissive of them.

Chomsky was around a lot longer then Alex and Manufacturing Consent said it all.

Chomsky also refuses to question the official story of 9/11, using a hand-wavy argument of "the Bush administration wouldn't be that stupid." Manufacturing Consent is still an excellent book that should pretty much be required reading for anyone who wants a basic primer into how "democracy" works.

Yes I never got that, Michio Kaku aswell, two guys who's logic I thought was sound, it makes me question myself.

I don't disagree with the premise, just that average people will be able to do anything about it. Information has always been the most important component of any conflict, but as sad as it sounds I'm willing to put more faith in the government and other established bodies than I am in random strangers on the internet.

At this point, no one trusts anything from anyone for any reason. We've gaslit ourselves into complete retardation. Evidence means nothing, opinion is fact and it's not about to change any time soon.

That's what they want you to think. Gaslighting.

I'm with you and most people who frequent this sub are with you. It's especially difficult when you have absolutely no friends on the same page as you. It's a big wall and there's no way around it especially when the world is as unstable as it is right now. Hopefully, after a month or two of Trump in office, the political tension will dull a bit and everyone will remember how they used to get along a year ago. Until then, I'm going to keep working, keep smoking weed, and wait out this madness lurking on the internet trying to find the most up to date information on the status of world power.

Yeah, the fact that CTR is still an active presence on Reddit scares the shit out of me. Every post that hits r/all is instantly killed by assholes. And anyone who actually frequents the sub or knows what it means either don't comment because they don't want to get in the mess, or they're downvoted to hell. R/conspiracy is the last safe place on Reddit for free speech until it hits r/all. Even r/the_donald censors pizzagate shit. I mean when you see the intensely concentrated opposition, it's obvious. We need to stick together and constantly remind each other that we're not insane.

Goddamn. Yeah, I have a feeling that they try to find posts to exploit and concentrate their efforts so anyone who might be a little open to new ideas is instantly turned away. And then when you tell them what sub they're on, they still talk at you like you're dumb. I'm sure you understand that your post didn't really have a lot of substance and was a hypothetical discussion. That leaves open a lot of interpretation and subjects you to a lot of criticism. I suggest you don't talk back to them. Downvote and move on. Talk to anyone that has a malleable opinion based on fact. But believe me, I've tried to convince some people, my own friends, but they are so closed minded that they just reiterate the government agenda and refuse to acknowledge any evidence proving that the public is being fed lies. It's not productive. And it's hard to ignore in times like these. Sorry for the long replies man I'm at like a [7] and don't get a chance to get meta about this shit very often.

I agree. It's getting harder and harder to just go along with the bullshit. Good luck hombre.

Oh look, a stoned conspiracy theorist. Who would have thought. Have you heard about our Lord and Savior the water powered car? It's being suppressed by the government of course.

The fact that when a thread from /r/conspiracy hits the front page, it gets downvotes and oppositionary comments, isn't proof that CTR is "still active on reddit." It isn't CTR. It's the regular populace who thinks your shit is batshit crazy.

Pizzagate is censored because it's an unfounded pedophile hunt that's targetting innocent people with "evidence" that's laughable. You are insane if you legitimately believe Pizzagate. Insane or gullible.

Lol this comment is fucking hysterical in so many ways. Keep fighting the good fight lol. It's the majority of the population that's wrong, not this tiny internet corner of conspiracy theorists. /s

The majority of the population doesn't know. You're all being fed lies and not thinking about it for yourself. WTC 7 could not have physically fell in the way it did according to the story we were given. An unhindered freefall occurs, as it did on all three towers, under the conditions of a controlled demolition. That alone is evidence of inconsistencies. I could go on. The fact that "fake news" is an issue to the Democratic party is frightening. They are labeling anything against their agenda as false.

Back to the point. No one is right, no one is wrong. That's your first mistake. There are only facts. If you look at the facts and stop blindly trusting the opinion of the supposed majority, you'd see the inconsistencies. Also, I don't think the "majority" really give a fuck. And that's the problem. They are OK with a proven corrupt DNC, but instantly point the finger at Russia without any evidence, while ignoring evidence suggesting, not proving, that Seth Rich among other DNC insiders were responsible for leaking information. It's time to stop blindly agreeing with public opinion. The war in Syria is going to be won by Assad. I don't think anyone is happy about it, but the fact that the US has been supplying weapons to Islamic militants to overthrow a democratically elected government is a sign that the Democratic Party does not have the intentions of the people in mind, but have a larger agenda. I know you're probably just CTR by your argument strategy, but I hope you consider some things that may scare you. It's not okay that these things are happening. We are the only opposition of the mainstream bullshit. And we're growing. Be a part of the change, be accepting of new ideas. Don't silence others or shut out opinions just because they make you feel bad.

I was talking about pizzagate. I'm firmly placed in the question everything mentality, but there's no concrete evidence. Then again, I disagree, so obviously I'm CTR. That line of thought is pretty pathetic.

Maybe the consensus is right

I admit that I used to be one of those people. When you boil it down, the more the person trusts the MSM to give them accurate information, the more hostile they are to the actual truth.

I was a big time BernieBro, and the first clue I got that the media might be a bit more biased than I thought was when he called out Hillary for skimming off the Hillary Victory Fund (she took nearly everything) and rather than investigate, they all piled on him and ran a week's worth of hit pieces. Until it was shown he was absolutely right.

Then the DNC leaks popped up, and they showed just how rigged the process had been against Bernie. Did the MSM cover that? Nope, not with the veracity that it should have, because they were all in bed with Hillary (which the Podesta emails eventually showed).

This got me thinking, if their coverage of Bernie could be so terrible and biased, and they're the liberal media, what was their coverage of Trump like? (at the time I still hated him, because I trusted the media). What I found took my breath away. This guy has been so maligned by the media it's borderline criminal, or possibly should be. I think everybody has been referring to this moment as being "red-pilled," and it hit me like a fucking freight train. Sure, Trump has his gaffes, and the media certainly has a right to report on them, but then they make up lies based off of them. That's the troubling part.

And now the media is trying to help Hillary steal the election since she couldn't win it legitimately, by reporting the "Russian hacking" lies as truth, as Julian Assange will attest (everybody should listen to that).

Once you see the propaganda in the media, there's no going back. The amount of lies being passed off as truth is staggering. I've always been a critical thinker, so conspiracies don't usually last long in my head, but I truly feel like I'm in bizarro-world right now.

Oh man that reminds me of the book swan song with the homeless lady and nuclear war. Great book but it's starting to feel like it could be our future

I used to have nightmares about the people throwing their bodies into the Great Salt Lake to purify themselves. Good book. Scary and plausible, but good.

You're definitely not the only one. I and almost all of my friends can attest. Disconnected from family, but always very respectful of each other's opinions. I think it's because we know we are all truth-seekers, while others are complacent or complicit in the suppression of truth.

You aren't crazy, this really is the world you live in. Our culture is changing.

That I can no longer talk to anyone about this election because they believe everything they see on TV as fact.

The irony, it burns.

Well, let's put it like this.

Your OP is about how you take a decision to view reality from a distorted angle, and then you conclude that lots of things 'make sense'.

Then you post about 'constructed' reality.

Is light dawning?

she actually is a criminal. The email scandal is just the most talked about crime. So, the OP isnt a distorted angle.

Too bad you're trying to be funny and witty. You might actually have something to add.

No, she actually is not a criminal.

A criminal, by definition, is someone who has been convicted of a crime. Hillary Clinton has not been convicted of anything.

I presume that you believe she has committed criminal offences, and that's where the problem starts. In order to confirm your belief, you have viewed the evidence in the light of your conclusion, and naturally your prejudice is confirmed.

It's not often that you nincompoops will admit that this is what you do, but you are red-handed - you did that in your OP.

The problem for you is that this is called rationalisation, and it is the exact opposite of logical argument.

What you should do is consider the evidence, including evidence that points in other directions, allot an appropriate weight to all the evidence you have, and then see if the preponderance of evidnece compels a conclusion, or if not, makes a conclusion more likely than not.

Not that you are going to do any of that, because it would involve admitting that you've been a gullible nitwit up to now.

I find it hard to be friends with most people. It's because they seem to be out of touch with reality.

I think we have all been feeling this, but now that conspiracy theories are being proven true left and right, people can't be dismissed with that label anymore.

Name one

they believe everything they see on TV as fact.

This is what's freaking me out, too. The generation that told my generation when I was young that television is fake, nothing on it is real - they now believe everything on the television is real, and scoff at me when I say otherwise.

It's mindboggling.

It's called gaslighting, look it up. You're not crazy.

Show them facts

http://riggedit.com/

what is this site ... i feel like it's cool but have hard time trusting shit lately

Just a site I made; check it out!

i did, looks cool, could use 100% width but i am no designer

what i want to know though is how does it decide which submissions to show?

100% width; is that some CSS that would keep the URL within the div; I am having trouble with that recently.

I use a a plugin for wordpress called : Autoblog

I have punched in a bunch of sites that I personally visit; along with reddit/r/worldnews; and if the keywords I have placed on the list are in the title of the article, it auto posts via the sites RSS feed.

If I post to twitter; it will automatically post that to FB/Riggedit.com as well.

If you think there will be a civil war then you really do have that sign.

I was originally going to post about how since this last round of Wikileaks I've realized how constructed our "reality" is.

Once they convince you that you can't trust what you see around you - that the evidence of your own eyes and your own experience is actually constructed by those who mean you harm - then they can basically sell you anything they want, because any contradictory evidence is "constructed reality" and any skepticism is "being a sheep."

But you stay woke af, buddy, I'm sure that's gonna work out real well for you. Did you pay $400 for a prepper kit, yet?

As much as I am annoyed by the overused 'red pill' term and others like it, there is something to it. Most people are drones. They don't know any better, and they are perfectly happily going about their lives in blissful ignorance of all the insanity going on around them. They merrily cling to the happy lies that are fed to them every day. It's frustrating to witness but the reasoning for it is perfectly understandable. Most people just don't care enough to investigate things. They deal with what is in their immediate vicinity and don't worry about the rest. It could be considered a form of base pragmatism I suppose.

https://youtu.be/HFvT_qEZJf8

No ur not alone. They may think they control the narrative but they really do not. Look at CNN's posts on Facebook then check the comments. Every time they try to control the narrative they are flooded with people calling them out on their bullshit. Even HRC's FB posts during the election were over ran with people who opposed her 9 to 1. The more they try to control things the more people pay attention to the truth.

I'm fine with the fact that most people are quite happy to be sheep plugged ivy the matrix.

What's gotten insanely scary to be lately is how my once Libertarian and skeptical friends have recently fallen back into the mainstream media trance simply because they don't like Trump. I don't ask that you love Trump, but I do ask that you stay clear eyed.

Smart people are willingly re-inserting themselves because it's all just gotten so confusing and overwhelming. That's a terrible thing.

Brainwashing isn't continually telling you what to think , but washing your brain with so much nonsense that important stuff like Syria gets washed out

I keep trying to buffer my "crazy conspiracy theory talk" with jokes about my tin foil hat and a future standing outside the mall with a bullhorn and a cardboard peace sign talking about what "they" are really doing.

Amazing how absolutely fking angry people--and I'm talking actual friends and family--can get at me for questioning the narratives were told. Like the media is divine gospel. Makes me so sick. Makes me furious... but of course I can't get angry back or I discredit entirely any ounce of progress I may have made convincing them, not of my perspective, but just that there are gaping holes in the narrative that it would be worth looking into.

I'm deeply embarrassed by my post history from right after Bernie lost. I'm a small business owner with a Leftie bent so he was my guy. The kind of person who wants to pay above minimum wage to give his subordinates dignity, you know. Anyway. I was so outraged beyond reason I latched onto anything that gave me hope for small business at all. So I took Hillary as "the next best thing" and started to bellow against Trump supporters. But the fight was all staged. Hillary was laying smoke screen over smoke screen and the only thing I'm mad at now is myself for getting distracted by it all. And I'm disappointed in others for continuing to fall for the fumbling shenanigans of a fallen Nazi idiot and the hisses of all her greedy, shameless shills.

Just curious, are you even old enough to vote?

As someone who ends up here every once in awhile from /r/all, and who has been winding up here more frequently the last few weeks/months... keep this up. It's hilarious 😂

Posting your stream of consciousness does make for some wonderful conspiracy theories. So well rooted in evidence and full of logic and reason.

What if you are a schizophrenic, banging away at a piece of cardboard with a keyboard crudely drawn on it, believing you are reading and commenting on Reddit?

I wasn't doing that =( I was making a joke. It is something me and my ex used to joke about a lot when we were trapped in a long distance relationship. I thought it might get a chuckle. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

That's kind of how I've felt... Wikileaks has proved that nothing we think is real is real. And right now it's hard to trust any news outlet, media information, or even political information without doubting its validity. And that's terrifying. But now I feel exactly how they want me to: I don't care about any of it. It all seems like a lie, they aren't going to stop lying to us, and they'll kill us all to preserve their power, even if they finally get caught. I just won't fight for them. I won't give them any more money than I absolutely have to

I now feel like I'm on another planet and borderline insane.

Well, they've sure done they're job well, isolating those who think differently

The problem is that a lot of people who work steady jobs just don't have the energy to come home at night and be paranoid for fun.

Speak for yourself. I work 2 jobs and go to college and I still have plenty of time to be paranoid for fun.

Just because you're too busy to be paranoid don't mean they're not after you

• updated Cobain quote

It's actually a quote from the novel Catch 22.

awesome! i've heard good things about it and you've pushed me to finally read it

You're doing better at time management than most

Understanding the truth of the lies of this country and planet we live in isn't being paranoid. You're marginalizing the condition, and it's doing a disservice to the continued search for truth.

paranoid for fun

Well it must be nice to have enough free time to come here and mock all of the people being slaughtered in Syria as just paranoid delusions that don't really exist. Just lump it altogether into one pot, put it on the same level as lizard people which are rarely ever actually discussed here.

You worthless sociopaths are all the same.

Not mocking anyone dying in Syria. I'll admit that I'm not privy to the details of the Syrian conspiracy, but I thought it was fairly widespread knowledge that things are really bad there? Help me to understand this issue better, honestly.

there are many interests at play in Syria. Russia and the West have different ideas of how it should play out. You don't see anyone defending Russia's goals explicitly, but that is maybe a more honest conversation for people who support their choice in our government.

Russia would like it if that area weren't run by jiahadis. (Free Syrian army/isis/majhadeen). America seems hell bent on overthrowing another secular-terrorist-killing leader in Assad. I am not totally sure why but it probably has something to do with the dollar have no value besides the fact the oil sales are tied to it. Thanks to our alliegence with Saudi Arabia. We fight their wars through Clinton foundation, they sell oil in US dollars

That's not a bug, but a feature.

There's a reason our agricultural system has corn, wheat, and soybeans as it's base, and that's because it is not about promoting health, or even satiation.

Meaning the agricultural system is based on foods which will ensure the masses are lethargic enough that they won't care.

If anyone has tried a sugar/carb free diet they'll understand. Have never felt better in my life since starting keto about 3 months ago.

It's the same reason people don't stop in the middle of a street to have discussions with the crazy bum holding up a sign about the lizard men and end of the world.

worst "fun" I've ever dealt with

forgive them its beyond their scope....after 911 when i went back to one of my jobs [flags draping the NYC office ostentatiously and i remember thinkin where did they get all these flags so fast] in a private conversation with my boss & CHAIRMAN i told him i thought we did this to ourselves.... and he was like do you understand the implications of what you are saying and i said unfortunately YES!

he had a hard time with all the implciations i accept them as reality moving forward and look what we have done to ourselves

I feel you man.

thats the rabbit hole most "rabbits" cant make their way down the tunnels ....you hafta realize in that office were folks who would raise the what $100,000 to be in that special club of republicans donors.....

i was of course their closet anarchist!

telling your boss and company chairman that 9/11 was an inside job

Must've been a nice work environment after that?

hey i knew where i was and whom i was with so ... fed my family and i was honestly always myself ....you should see how many there would tell me you cant say this you'll lose your job and over time i waved them all goodbye as they lost theirs

sometimes you are allowed to disagree when you are a person of principles honesty and actually do a job they need you to do!

That's true. Producing results can earn you a lot of leeway for disagreeing opinions. Good on ya.

plus consistency and honesty

kinda like bernie a lot of conservatives will vote for him cuz they know he is good on guns and he is consistanc even if they dont agree with him they know they can trust him

'We did this to ourselves' is quite vague. My first thought was he was blaming decades of US foreign policy errors.

No judgement about that day in this comment. But I work with public works departments throughout new England. I've visited dozens and dozens of DPW facilities and nearly every single one of them has a considerable stockpile of flags for the 4th of July, memorial days, flag day, founders' day, etc.

I don't know about private buildings in NY or any of that, but there is certainly no shortage of American flags around here. My town up here in NH has a flag on every telephone pole on the main from one border to the other.

NYC garmento these were ordered!

Definitely feel that. I can't really talk to any of my friends or family now that I've redpilled and become "that guy". Only my SO really believes I'm sane and still me, seeing as how she's a big 9/11 truther.

The disconnect is real. But if we need to shoulder these burdens so we can get other people to think outside the box, then that's what we gotta do.

Honestly considered having my family watching Matrix first as part of a slow deprogramming exercise. It really is a case of mass hypnosis, being bombarded by propaganda 24/7 on all channels and platforms.

We gotta keep memeing the shit out of them. To quote Malik Obama, "Meme them to death!"

Maybe it's not them. Maybe you're the one living in a delusional reality.

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Hillary Clinton isn't an everyday person like you. Her days are filled learning how best to present herself, and sell herself. She carefully molds her positions and agenda (and I don't necessarily mean agenda in a negative way. We all have an agenda) in order to advance her and those she wants supporting her.

Perhaps not unlike a professional actor, I imagine she practices speeches, and how she is going to appear in front of crowds. Down to microscopic details, her day is planned, and precisely coordinated.

Can you remember what it was like to be you a week ago? Hillary Clinton can't remember what it is like to be an "everyday American" because eternities have come and gone for her, a blur of half baked memories of political races, opponents, scandals in which she carefully puts her emotions and public reactions in the backseat.

Psychologically, she is almost unrecognizable to the 9-5ers. She has not worried about money or comfort or health care most likely her whole life. She eats what is catered or brought to her. She compliments and plays the social engineering game exceptionally well. She is politically correct, respectful when needed, and I do believe she has a temper she is quite good at managing.

But that is the reality I imagine* for Hillary. Maybe you are right, and she is just a good person caught in extraordinarily inauthentic ways of living, and trying to think of all the unrelateable people her decisions and actions impact. I think she discarded useless feelings like compassion and empathy a long time ago in favor of public approval.

As much as all these on goings are interesting, the same can be said for all the conspiracy theorists. Sometimes the amount of ignorance it takes to believe some of the shit people are talking about makes it seem like like they are living in their own little world in their minds.

A lot of them jump on every tidbit of info and blow it in to this massive conspiracy theory.

I think there is always shady shit going on in the government. But remember that if your argument is collaboration of news without sources means something suspicious is going on then the same is true for the opposite.

I found it really creepy the day Trump was elected the front page of Reddit was literally all pictures of puppies.

Dude! Google chrome has an add on or something that is replacing all pictures of trump with kittens.

People literally censor themselves.

Whenever I try to explain to my girlfriend my perspective on these sorts of things, she gets furious with me and says that "I'm so negative and depressing and how could I stand myself living in a world that I view as so negative?" What she doesn't understand is that my view only aims to seek the the truth. I have no expectation for that truth to be "positive" or "happy", and so when my perspective seems "negative", it isn't a reflection of my views but rather a reflection of our world.

When I told her that, I could tell something clicked, but she is certainly one of those people who chooses to ignore the things of which we at R/conspiracy discuss, because it would make her outlook" too negative and too difficult to live with"- which I view the opposite. I feel that the pain is how we know we're alive, and that the fact that my resulting world view is negative means that the world must be a painful place and it's our responsibility to be aware of it and maybe someday do something about it.

Without having spoilers, the whole pain makes us know we're alive thing is heavily represented in west world- which sort of made me realize all of the things I've just explained.

sounds like lenina(iirc) in Brave new world

well said, and insightful

I have similiar problem with GF, she is currently on a buddha zen self contained kick and can't be bothered with outside world negativity - we have gotten into HUGE fights over this, now I am silent. I respect she doesnt want to deal with this at all.

That's not Zen Buddhism. It's escapism and denial masquerading as a religious preference. She absolutely has a right to respond to the world with calm positivity, but to deny anything that upsets her is childish.

Whenever I try to explain to my girlfriend my perspective on these sorts of things, she gets furious with me and says that "I'm so negative and depressing and how could I stand myself living in a world that I view as so negative?" What she doesn't understand is that my view only aims to seek the the truth.

This is literally the exact same response my mother has had during this entire election season, and I have no idea how to respond to it. When I try to explain things she just says she "doesn't want to know," and it's extremely frustrating, because with everything else she's normally a very intelligent and informed person

My mom is exactly like yours. She doesn't want to know. Anything. And she's otherwise an amazing, intelligent, warm and articulate person. She's terrified of what's under the rug. It's super frustrating.

There is just this very eerie disconnect, it's like they live on a completely different planet and it almost feels like I'm having a weird dream when talking to them sometimes.

Posting on /r/conspiracy lol they are probably tired of your tinfoil artwork

This quote from Network gave me some perspective when facing a similar dilemma.

We know things are bad — worse than bad. They're crazy. It's like everything everywhere is going crazy, so we don't go out anymore. We sit in the house, and slowly the world we are living in is getting smaller, and all we say is: 'Please, at least leave us alone in our living rooms. Let me have my toaster and my TV and my steel-belted radials and I won't say anything. Just leave us alone.'

I simply don't understand how someone can be apolitical and uninvolved with everything going on in the world. There are so many important events going on in the world that will affect our everyday lives. With Trump getting in at least people will pay attention to his appointments and there will be sufficient scrutiny by the liberal public (unlike with Clinton).

There'll only be scrutiny of things that threaten DT's ability to get richer.

I think most people realize something is awry or wrong with whats happening but choose to block it out and bury it since its extremely overwhelming when you realize what is actually happening in the world and that you have little to no power of stopping it.

they are just living their life, as we should be...unfortunatly we live in hell knowing what we know.

it's like being the only person at a Magic Show that actually saw the card going up the sleeve. the show is ruined for us, we know the truth and that we were all tricked. meanwhile everyone around is simply dazzled and amazed at how great the magician is.

wish I could go back, and simply live again

THEY DONT WANT TO KNOW - ITS A SELFISH DESCISION THAT THEY KNOWLONGLY MAKE.

Hate to say it but that's life. As a psychonaut I used to think the same thing about everyone else, like I had some form of superior knowledge, but the Truth encapsulates all of us. If you can't reach them and engage them then you need to reach inside and either work your ass off and figure out how to or move on.

I think I'm late to the party, but you guys hit the nail on the head. It's propaganda, and the majority of the United States eats it up. We need to rapidly develop a platform that serves to educate the masses to our reality, it is not too late.

PM me if you love your country, and have ideas on how to save it.

That's how propaganda works.

It's a sad truth. People just cannot handle such a scary reality.

I too, have visited r/politics.

what you dont realize is that they just dont want to talk politics with you. i do the same with friends/family that buy into bullshit fringe theories and cheer for trump. just play dumb so they shut up, cause youll have to see them again at christmas

Best description of it yet.

Or your're just a crazy conspiracy theorist.

You have to talk to them really plain. Like, "well, what do you think about how she lied to congress?"

About what, a few emails????

"Well actually they subpoenaed her hard drives, and then she had them erased. Doesn't that sound like someone that's trying to hide something?"

its a painstaking process but none of them can defend her bullshit when you make them answer for it. Don't let them make it about trump's "words". Make it about Hillary's criminal actions.

Yeah, this is one way to deal with the fact that decisions which affect you are being made without your input. You focus on your life and forget about the bs that the TV feeds you, because why bother?

Your not alone

america disturbs the hell out of me because of how uninformed and generally idiotic the populace is...

What can we all really do about it? Serious question. Either we do something to change the situation or we're no better than our drone relatives. Love the conversation but let start getting serious

Have you heard about the "Allegory of the Cave" by Plato?

I get this feeling with 90% of the people I talk with. The percentage could be higher, but I'm counting those who kinda get it but are still slightly lost. Even when I visited England I got the same feeling.

This is called dissociation and it's a sign of mental instability and/or psychological abuse.

Our entire society is suffering from PTSD.

Don Peyote movie. About waking up and feeling like a crazy person because no one else sees things like you do. Dan Fogler spoke about this movie with Freeman.

You can say fuck on the Internet, nobody will tell on you.

The problem is you morons come here and congregate to feel powerful and find some semblance of control of the world around you. In reality, nothing you do here, or anywhere else an change a thing about the stuff you worry about.

Just like that clown who brought a gun to a pizza shop. Fucking moron.

Other people have already accepted what happens in the government and thousands of miles away is out of their control. All they can control is how they approach life and those little pictures on Facebook. You'd be wise to realize, that if those you are so scared of, are as powerful and as evil as you believe them to be, you would be squashed like a bug before you ever come close to making a difference.

NO offense to your family, but these are the type of people who neglect their kids, then end up on the 6 o'clock news, crying, "why?....Whiiiiiieey?" cause their kid got taken or run over by a car.

You might do well being careful talking about those Clintons and their obvious mis-deeds. You might get run down or "lost"

I wish you well.

So how are things in /r/the_donald?

His comment history is frightening.

I've been banned, but did notice they did supply the best arguments, the Hillary and Bernie camps were just crazy. The Russians have the stats for sure. Very right on with their debate answers to my questions. Numbers, facts, sources, etc.

Spooky! :-)

Wow conspiracy has become a cesspool of fuckin shit hasnt it

And I get "warned" and my comments deleted when I point it out.

Wow conspiracy has become a cesspool of fuckin shit hasnt it

Is this a joke? The only thing I've seen out of t_d is trash-tier memes

Yeah this guy must be a paid shill.

I'm a Bernie guy! 110%. :-)

Trump is going to implode the system, loving it~ Finally people are waking up. :-)

[deleted]

Thing is, Bernie's platform was way closer to Trump's than it was to Clinton's. So many Dems seemed to completely ignore that.

I've been watching her since she took the senate seat in NY. I would have voted for a dog turd over Clinton.

It's a reference to where this influx of trump related posts are coming from. Why play dumb?

[removed]

Are you saying that the 21 day old account might have ulterior motives? I wonder what they could be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/russia-internet-trolls-and-donald-trump-2016-7

Nonsense comrade! OP is Americanski like you and I!

[removed]

[removed]

Rule 6. Removed.

Trump supporters were the first to do it. They claimed anybody who disagreed with their narrative worked for CTR.

In fact, many are still clinging to that bullshit.

It's funny until you realize that Trump had his own version of CTR that spent nearly twice the amount CTR did.

Rule 6. Removed.

[removed]

Rule 6. Removed.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

[deleted]

Haha in like every instance he's replying to someone else using the word "shill."

See what I did there? It's called fact-checking. You should try it some time.

It's amazing how Soros has become their conspiritard bogeyman, while completely ignoring the Koch brothers' influence on conservative politics over the last two decades.

You mad?

Very thoughtful reply. How long did it take you to think of such genius?

Why do you guys do this to your self?

Because of a desperate need to be different.

To explain and simplify complex thoughts. This whole year has left me looking for explanations, but it is exhausting. I was wrong about every prediction in the election, and it has left me very confused about who to trust and where to seek truth.

I want to be clear, I tend to look at everything skeptically. But current events have me also doubting things. It makes me think of this one video I stumbled on while on LSD a few years ago. It's a bit cryptic, but it was released in 2012, and looking back it seems prophetic. https://youtu.be/6n_xCI-peq0

That was a pretty interesting video, thanks for sharing that. There was a time I wanted to get into animation with the idea of conveying complex ideas for others but I had forgotten it. It was inspiring at the very least.

LOL - thanks!

I'm serious. Just watch it with a bit of association to current events. The sham of Obama, the rise of ISIS, the mass distrust of MSM, the one that promised to rid the world of bankers and globalists rises to power and is the anti-Christ. I'm not religious, in fact I stay grounded by believing that one day I will fade into non existence. But every time I watch this video it gives me serious chills.

Because it's an effective deflection technique.

Look how long its taken people to realize they've been duped. It may not work as well anymore, but it will still cause enough noise to be helpful toward their agenda.

Otherwise all the mental gymnastics they had to do to support for the worst Presidential candidate for a major party in American History will destroy their ego as they realize just how absurd those mental gymnastics were.

The moment a vote for Donald isn't a vote to save our sacred institutions from some global cabal of puppeteers and the devil herself, but just a vote again a flawed, left of center politician, who has made a few really dumb choices, it starts to look like the dumbest vote you could of possibly made.

It stinks from both sides, you didn't save shit.

What is so alarming about posts like this is how so many redditors appear to have no idea

that it's fucking nonsense to look at things this way around.

Get a grip on reality, you fuckwits, and stop acting as if it's perfectly alright to treat reality and real people as if they are the plot and characters of a Roger Corman movie.

As I've mentioned before, it's religious. You grow up being told that god is good, cops are to be trusted and liberals want to destroy America.

You search for articles and information that validate those viewpoints. You ignore anything else or claim it's part of a mass conspiracy created by evil forces who want to do evil things for evil reasons.

Er... just a bit of elucidation for the hard of thinking: when /u/Literally_A_Shill says 'you', he doesn't mean me.

Same exact method and ideology of radical islamic terrorists. Allah is good, the taliban are to be trusted, all of our problems are American Imperialism's fault, so we should systemically deprive all minorities and women of rights and liberties because careful liberal democracy is the tool of the enemy.

What gets upvoted in this sub is just embarrassing now.

"I think this next upcoming month is going to be very dangerous time for all of us."

Lol

Hey haha fuck you! Some people like this shit especially in this sub. You can thank CTR for exploiting threads like these and getting them to the front page. They get threads that are simply a discussion starter without evidence per se and drive the conversation to fit their agenda of putting down anyone with a capacity to take in any opinion that doesn't fit their agenda. So, yeah fuck you and your bullshit comment that did nothing except put down someone on the last sub that supports free speech.

"I think I'm so smart and woke that anyone who disagrees with me must be paid to do so"

Who the fuck would pay someone to argue against random nobodies after the election? The CTR line of defense was stupid before, but it's downright delusional to use now.

The great thing about free speech is that I can still call someone out for posting paranoid bullshit. Sorry for hurting your feelings!

Why the fuck are you on r/conspiracy then?

Wait, so the people upvoting a thread that makes the sub look like a bunch of idiots are shills, but the people that made the thread and ramble on in them, who call anyone who disagrees with them a shill, are perfectly fine users of the sub with nothing wrong with them?

I don't think this post necessarily deserved 3k upvotes do you? I'd say shills get malleable posts to the front page and exploit it by controlling the comments.

I'd say it definitely doesn't deserve the amount of upvotes it's getting. But I'd also say that those upvotes are coming from the same circlejerk that is causing the post to appear in the first place. Interaction from t_d also probably has a big effect on it too, I'd wager. So it's some sort of outside influence, just not from a pac for a candidate that lost the election last month.

It's been pretty obvious that CTR is still active. Vote manipulation is more of a problem now than ever. They have bots that recognizably downvote key words. CTR has an argument strategy that is to deflect attention and trigger conflict. Any rational person, strictly given facts, would not have any reason to believe or argue that Russian intelligence and putin himself carried out the dnc leaks. But that seems to be the narrative they're pushing. Defecting attention from the unaddressed corruption, instead assigning blame to an outside influence and exploiting the public's emotion. It's pretty clear what their plan is.

I don't like to be partisan, but trump has covered his tracks well enough that no one knows his secrets. The Clintons, especially Hillary, however, have a record of carelessness. They have been caught many times, but weaseled out because they had friends. Podesta fell for a phishing scheme. Any 15 year old could have gotten access to his emails. Hillary used an unsecured server and it was a matter of time before someone got into it. If anyone is to blame, it should be them for being that careless. The US has intervened in hundreds of "elections" and if it did turn out that there was evidence that the leak was Russian, I don't think it should be given much attention because in the end, they only exposed the truth that he dnc is corrupt. The people at fault are the ones who let it happen.

You can thank CTR for exploiting threads like these and getting them to the front page.

Holy fuck, move on.

Both Trump and Sanders spent a lot more money on social media manipulation, Russia has entire office buildings full of trolls and Macedonian teens built an entire small economy around pro Trump propaganda.

You would know that if you didn't filter all your news like OP does.

I'm gonna start posting obviously fake news in this sub. I'm announcing it right now. I'm making my intentions clear.

I will post fake news to this sub, just to see how high the vote counts reach. Ban this account if you want.

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That's how you know all of this is agenda driven.

Trump is an establishment billionaire that has been in a position of power his entire life yet he's never brought up in any of the pizzagate conspiracies. There is far more direct proof of his pedophile tendencies than misquoted excerpts about cheese pizza but somehow none of it matters. To the point where he has said disgusting things about his own daughter when she was a baby and where different underage girls have directly claimed that he would ogle them.

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Epstein straight up had to plead the fifth when questioned about Trump.

But, as OP stated, once you decide he's the good guy everything he does is excusable.

Yeah he said that Epstein much like himself liked beautiful women and a lot of them younger too. Something along those lines

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Also, the 'establishment' is not a monolithic entity. There are many powerful competing groups and individuals. Trump is helping out groups like ExxonMobil, which is opposed to the more environmentally oriented groups which hold sway in the media.

The Donald posters sound like they just got out of the mental asylum, that's why.

I can always tell when a poster is a paid shill because their accounts are very young and focus comments on narrow topics with a very hard slant and obvious agenda.

We dont need to wait. Look at his cabinet selections.

Every single thing he says and does is a "surely this?..."

I made no comment about their efficacy.

The comment was about The Establishment, and every one of his picks (except Ben Carson) are Republican insiders.

You don't need to wait to make a determination on this count.

All they can do is re-route their own stupid arguments.

speculation - borriiiing

RemindMe! 3 months "how's that swamp looking?"

Just curious how you feel things are looking at this point. Personally I didn't vote for either major candidate. I can't say I'm pleased with the climate denial and I worry about the planet my daughter will inherit.

Why are you defending him so much if you have to wait to see if he's actually corrupt or not?

Just don't fall for his tricks when it comes time for him to actually be president. Lowering taxes and raising government spending has always been a disaster. Especially when the economy is already at full employment with a 3% increase in GDP last quarter. Also you need understand that for a lot of minorities it's a tough time, because (reasonably or not) they feel persecuted by the candidate who was just elected. Just please try to keep an open mind when he starts doing crazy shit and don't turn a blind eye because you support him.

Because they have to act offended as DJT is used to further lift the veil on the fascist underpinnings of US government

...is that you, Donnie?

K just checking.

I'm with you on this. Look at George w bush, totally inept while in office (seemingly) yet watch him give a speech these days. He is so articulate and clever. He played everyone to wage his daddies war. And we all fell for it. Not one person would have called him intelligent in office. I don't like what he did and the way he did it but damn dubya is a legend.

He was articulate before his presidential campaign as well. I think he's intellectually dumb, but he's politically a genius.

He has a high IQ. I think he liked playing dumb and saying "Internets" and trying to be more Texan than he is.

Dude was an alcoholic and a below average student, I doubt he has a high IQ.

No no, he's just dumb. It's 'unpresidented'

And this is the same guy who made fun of a disabled reporter by pretending to be crippled himself. This is the man who will now be addressing the families of soldiers. The same man who's words will echo with children for the next four years. Is this really the guy you support? I just don't understand how.

Same dude that called out John McCain for being a pow and saying he wasnt truly a hero because he was captured.

It's not just a spelling error though. When you're President Elect, number one, the fact that he doesn't double check something before he sends it out is.... embarrassing to say the least. The fact that he can't spell words with more than three syllables is alarming. That's not a 'simple spelling error', that is not understanding the English language in general. I don't want someone who can't spell to be in charge of being the face if America. Don't dumb it down to a 'simple spelling error'. The man handpicked an oil tycoon for our Secretary of State who's hand feeding Putin. How do you justify that?

I didn't vote at all, but Trump isn't even in office yet, and we know that Trump will say anything to accomplish his goals. That could go either way on the topic of those charges. Will see.

Sounds a lot like the candidate he defeated.

Only if you get your news from subs like these.

Username checks out.

This is still up in the air and could go either way - I like trump and want to have faith in him, but i am also keeping my reservations about him.

Thank God, there are some people who are logical here

His new FBI and DOJ will do their jobs properly and cooperate with house oversight committee.

That will be enough. No special prosecutor needed. At least unless one of those groups suggests one first.

Trump Saying he won't push for prosecution doesn't mean it won't happen.

Look at how she is reacting now. Don't you think something worse could happen to him if he didn't pitch that softball? Trump has been dealing with gangsters his whole professional life. The Clintons are gangsters.

Exaggerated

Makes you wonder what was said in his meeting with Obama that made him change his mind about pursuing jail time for Hillary. I imagine she has so much dirt on that Administration that they aren't going to touch her.

He never was going to go after her -- it was all bluster, and part of the fake new and Russian crap campaign message. The Obama meeting had nothing to do with Clinton

How much did that account cost DudeAsInCool?

Wtf does that mean, Osiris? I have 50,000 posts here and speak my mind. I also read and don't take any meme for granted. What are your qualifications to label people?

That means nothing. People buy used Reddit accounts all the time. You're not fooling anyone.

Kiss my ass. There is only one DudeAsInCool on the web and you can find me everywhere. I work in Hollywood and am unaffiliated with any political apparatus

The Podesta hacks happened in March. Before Trump was the Republican nominee.

That's right around the time it became clear she'd be the nominee. I think they were designed to torpedo Hillary, the other candidate for the general being an oafish incompetent was just a bonus.

This is such bad logically falacy....

"if you jump to a conclusion and assume the conclusion is true, then of course you can find evidence to back it up."

This sounds EXACTLY like what someone who thinks the earth is 5,500 years old would make an argument for.

If you stop believing in evolution, and assume creationism is true, you can find evidence!!

Love your thinking. Only problem is, it works both ways. The AGW people started off thinking AGW was real. They built computer models to prove that. The models got further and further away from actual reality. So they fudged the date to agree with the models. Remember the "Hide the data" scandal? Oh you forgot.

Hillary started out with Trump loves Putin. Then morphed that to "Trump is a Putin Puppet". From there she went to Putin is Helping Trump. Then it was Putin is hacking to help Trump. To Putin influenced the election. And now we know it was a huge hoax of fake news.

The reality is, Hillary is a criminal. She realizes Trump might very well make appointments that would come after her and she could end up in jail. Stripped of her wealth. Powerless and alone. Her husband in jail and at very least her daughter paying serious fines and reputation ruined. All her cronies who committed crime could also end up in deep trouble. And the Clinton murders could become exposed. The blow back could ruin things for Obama as well.

So, yes, at this point, they will do anything to save their necks.

Trump has already said he is not going after her. And a person is not a criminal until they have been convicted of a crime. Innocent until proven guilty.

Sure. What ever you say.

Which part of his comment do you disagree with?

If I kill someone and get away with it, I'm not a murderer? If I steal something and no one knows, am I not still a thief? If I lie and everyone believes me, am I not still a liar all the same?

If I have a habit of breaking laws, violating the constitution, having "loose ends" tidied up, taking bribes, kick backs and payoffs, am I not a criminal?

If there was some concrete evidence regarding any of this without needing to go to crazytown I would agree with you. Maybe I value the concept of 'proof' too much.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence etc etc

So all the evidence that is so easy to find if you just google it means nothing to you? Hillary directly supported inciting riots and violence at Trump rallies. Bob Creamer is on tape boasting that he gets his marching orders directly from the Hillary campaign. Just what the hell would you consider proof? After Vince Foster committed suicide Hillary rushed to his residence and took loads of documents. Right after. Before there was an investigation. They later found those documents at Hillary's residence with her fingerprints. All over them. Ron Brown supposedly died in a plane crash. Special ops were spotted leaving the area right after the crash. Ron Brown was found with a contact bullet wound .45 on the top of his skull. I saw the bit map when it used to be online right after the incident. You could see lead fragments around the hole. You could see the contact imprint of a Desert Eagle .45. The investigation claimed that it was a wound that was incurred during the plane crash. The man who did the original autopsy was killed a day after the work was done. The air traffic controller was killed two days after the crash. Ron Brown's attorney was killed three days later. You just can't make this shit up.

Until James O'Keefe shows the complete uncut footage I have a hard time taking any of that seriously.

Hillary directly supported inciting riots and violence at Trump rallies. Bob Creamer is on tape boasting that he gets his marching orders directly from the Hillary campaign.

Wasn't she only accused of wanting to use some stupid costumes during a Trump rally? None of which violated any laws. Hardly riots or violence.

After Vince Foster committed suicide Hillary rushed to his residence and took loads of documents. Right after. Before there was an investigation. They later found those documents at Hillary's residence with her fingerprints. All over them.

Whitewater? Clinton didn't personally go and steal documents out of Fosters residence. White House counsel was present when the FBI searched the house and documents were given to them and then on to Clintons lawyers and then to Justice Department investigators. FBI concluded there was no way of knowing when Clintons fingerprints could have gotten onto the documents(possibly 1992 when it was in the news as she testified).

Ron Brown supposedly died in a plane crash. Special ops were spotted leaving the area right after the crash.

There's a Mayday episode about this, I don't remember anything about "special ops" in it. I'd love to see some sources for that.

Ron Brown was found with a contact bullet wound .45 on the top of his skull. I saw the bit map when it used to be online right after the incident. You could see lead fragments around the hole. You could see the contact imprint of a Desert Eagle .45. The investigation claimed that it was a wound that was incurred during the plane crash.

Personally I think I'm going to trust the investigators and multiple military pathologists over your recollection of an image you saw online.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1998-01-11/news/9801110008_1_x-rays-steven-cogswell-commerce-secretary-ron-brown and http://articles.latimes.com/1997/dec/25/news/mn-2268 good articles that go into some of the things you mentioned including the supposed bullet wound. But honestly why would commandos shoot his corpse? Or how would they shoot him in front of dozens of passengers and then escape an aircraft before it crashes? It doesn't add up.

Also about Barbara Wise:

There was no pool of blood, and Barbara Wise's death was never ruled a suicide by anyone. She was discovered in her Commerce Department office on 29 November 1996 after having last been seen alive on 27 November 1996, the day before Thanksgiving. A thorough investigation uncovered no evidence of foul play or suicide. Wise had a history of frequent and severe health problems, including liver ailments, and her death was attributed to natural causes.

snopes via http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-12-01/news/1996336009_1_wise-foul-play-washington-police

Again it's all a bunch of speculation with very little damning evidence, especially compared to the claims attributed against her.

Ah well. You won't look at the 40 hours of PVA video and claim it's edited. Uhh, you don't edit in damning comments. You would edit out things that are useless. Like someone talking about their good coffee or how drunk they got last night. The photo I saw actually came from the investigation. Right, you believe snopes. We're done. Obviously it's a useless conversation.

Ah well. You won't look at the 40 hours of PVA video and claim it's edited.

There were hard cuts all over those videos though? Maybe I saw different ones? Links would be handy. You must admit with O'Keefes past we should be critical of things he releases.

You would edit out things that are useless.

Very true but context is everything!

The photo I saw actually came from the investigation.

Yes, correct but there was an explanation for that if you read the linked news article.

From the Tribune:

True, Cogswell admits he did not examine Brown's body. He only saw the X-rays and photos of Brown and other documents in the institute's files. Still, his observation that the injury "appeared" to be a bullet wound was supported by Lt. Col. David Hause, who said he saw Brown's corpse.

Meanwhile, military pathologists found another explanation for the "bullet-fragment" images. They found identical patterns of particles on other X-rays, not just Brown's, that were taken with the same X-ray cassette. They blamed the particles on a faulty X-ray cassette.

Col. William T. Gormley, the Air Force pathologist who did examine Brown's body, ordered additional X-rays after finding the head injury. As for the hole that looks like a gunshot wound, closer examination revealed no bullet, no bone fragments, no metal fragments and, even more telling, no exit wound.

Right, you believe snopes. We're done. Obviously it's a useless conversation.

But the information is from the Baltimore Sun and DCPD, not from Snopes. :\

http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1996-12-01/news/1996336009_1_wise-foul-play-washington-police

Did you have a chance to see my reply to this post? If you're going to believe so strongly in something you should really do some research.

Lol What man?? Very little of what you just typed made sense... I will give you a benefit of doubt for now and assume you're a troll from south park:

AGW --- Most of the people who say that they "fudged" the data are not correct. I haven't seen much data fudging. 99% of that data showing evidence of human impact of climate change is not corrupted.

Next, the trump and Putin thing... why did you bring that up? super random. Second... that is some of the only news that is not fake... did Russia actually change votes? No, there is no evidence of that.... But did they try to influence public opinion? yes they definitely did. You can see it on their propaganda TV channel in Russia. Also the CIA and FBI has backed this up.

Finally... I don't see Hillary as a criminal. I don't understand what her daughter did that would require fines. Why would husband be in jail? What are you even talking about??The private server was not illegal at the time she set it up... using it when she started office was not illegal either. All the emails she sent were emails that she SHOULD HAVE SENT! There are no murder emails from pizzagate. lol

Is your mind that warped? you make statements that are obviously false like they are facts. lol

I won't even bother with a rebuttal. You people act as if insulting people will make them see things your way. We're done here. Have a nice day.

I was just legitimately confused.

You brought up random things like Putin and Global Warming... I just didn't understand how that made sense in the context of my original post. You tried to use the points as rebuttals?? But it was used ineffectively. You made statements that were obviously false facts but made it seem like it was 100% true...

That confuses me.

Civil war? Nope. Don't fight your neighbors. No matter what they say or think.

Pretty easy to avoid.

All this talk of 'civil war or nuclear war wish russia' has appeared on a bunch of threads lately.

It's weird. Why are those the only two options? It's like there is a group of people being fed this line and repeating it everywhere.

After the invasion of Ukraine by Russia, Reddit was suddenly flooded with obvious Reddit Russian Repeat Retards chanting 'Putin is great' and filling this subreddit with Ukraine is a US plot.

What if OP is part of a new conspiracy to plant the idea of Civil war in the US?

The intense pro-Russian propaganda after he invaded the Ukraine was really impressive. And subtle - I think a lot of people didn't even notice, but suddenly everywhere you looked there was an expert on the Ukraine welcoming Putin to Crimea.

And that sea-change happened again with the US election.

The_Donald isn't even subtle about it. They openly love Putin and defend Russia. Front page posts directly thank and praise them.

They're really masters at appropriating criticisms made against them. It plays right in to their hands, too, though, given how ridiculous this Russian hacking narrative is.

A few people say these things , then the bullet train just picks it up.

Like katamari!

While as citizens there's not a lot we can do if the govt make more war again, we will not be manipulated into fighting each other. While I do see the potential for some conflicts to arise, most people will not participate. Some of it is complacency, it's hard to watch GoT while shooting and looting your local grocery store.

More than that, is love. It's easy to hate people when they're abstract concepts, or dickhead drivers, funny looking.Its a lot harder to look another human in the eyes and not understand that so much more is the same than different. There are no clear lines to be fought over, no uniforms. Most of the country is Christian, but it's not like it's Ireland , there's so many sects and little unity beyond common consensus.

I feel some might want a race war, but fuck them, they're fucking stupid.( including extremists on both sides there, while I agree with some of the BLM points, there are def racists in that movement as well)

Edit. you don't have to be an agent to stir dissent. Things ARE crazy. There are agenda at play, on many sides. Some people have no idea , they're just doing what their view says fits and is right. .

Not to say a civil war will happen, but you aren't facing the reality that wars do happen despite the fact that we are all humans with much in common. Your idea of love is just laughably idealistic. But I admit that the sides aren't clear at all if war is to come, which makes me think war is not immanent.

My guess would be that all the shit that's been going on lately with talk of Russia and the people being divided within the U.S., to some people it feels like a build-up to something horrible

It's such a shit argument, too.

"You better not investigate Russian propaganda, hacking and doxxing because it might upset Russia! If you trigger them you'll be responsible for their reaction, which is all out nuclear war!"

No, it wouldn't. These people talk big, but they won't fight.

Starbucks baristas don't touch weapons.

The only lethal things in this cafe are my foam skills ,the prices, and this sick Spotify list, eh?

Would you like to contribute some art work, or maybe a meaningful phrase to out chalkboard today? It'll get you a ten percent discount if you do.

Nobody is going to fight over this, least of all responsible gun owners. I mean, if people are trying to loot your house, threateining your family, sure. But you can't go attack or kill people for having opposing views.

Well, you can, but then you're a fucking savage, and an actual traitor. On the note of savage traitors, who the fuck praises roof?

A Local news commenter praised his civil disobedience, calls him a hero, etc. do any of you think that was heroic? I dismiss as a troll, but who knows anymore, some people are so hate filled. Then of course, on the flip side, some one called for their arrest over said statements, which is almost as bad, and would be as bad, if they had authority to do so.

If more than half of the people do praise killers, ( NOT ADMINISTRATIVE/military level, that's another issue entirely) then maybe I'm wrong, and the reality disconnect is so strong that a bunch of Christians would murder each other in their homeland, commiting terrorist acts against their brethren, in the name of "freedom"

Wanna bet? :)

Its never going to come to fighting. Which is a good thing. But never underestimate the "other side". There are many responsible gun-owning liberals. And I personally know conservatives who don't want guns. Liberals and conservatives are not as different as the news makes it seem. We're all human beings and we all want what is best for ourselves and for our loved ones. And the opposite of that would be "war". If there are people out there who do want civil war, I never want to meet them. I don't want them anywhere near America, let alone living inside the borders. We are waaaaay past that point in American history. Let's keep it that way.

Yes I'll take that bet.

I bet there will be no civil war generated and fought by the left.

My bet was that starbucks employees don't touch guns. I know for a fact that some do.

What bet were you taking? Of course the left doesn't want a civil war. And the right shouldn't want one either.

You're so naive. There's no chance for civil war when everybody's eating fine and comfortable.

Actually, it makes more sense when you realize that she was a fantastic candidate for president: brilliant, extremely hard-working, admired by everyone who worked with her (including republicans), with hundreds of coveted endorsements from around the world and in the U.S., with detailed policies and how to implement them posted... if she got elected into the White House with Bill at her side, she would have been one of the truly great presidents.

It took a cascade of dirty tricks, slander, and unsavory actors and their corrupt schemes in order to make a monster and loser out of her. And that's what the Trumpsters and the GOP came up with, with a lot of help from the Democratic-party-bashing progressives (e.g. Sanders & Nader) who love to spoil elections whenever their pick loses the primary. You can literally trace the escalation of misconduct and dumpster fires thrown at her as the general election progressed.

She is very intelligent, despite what you may wish to believe.

Oh no, she's very intelligent; she's just fucking evil.

Also, if she's intelligent, how did she forget her months of training and have no idea what a huge C on a document meant? ^{Hint: She didn't.}

I was lost at fantastic.

Look at any policy position between her and Trump. The difference in intelligence is obvious even if you don't like her.

Give me a fucking break dude. She could barely even show up on the campaign trail. Trump out worked her during the campaign plain and simple. They stole the primary from Bernie, that has been proven

Peep this gif showing both of their campaign stops from Sep to the election.

https://i.sli.mg/jm9dDs.gif

Meh, to say they "stole" the primary you would need proof they tampered votes or something, which they didn't. The establishment wanted the establishment candidate over the guy who opportunistically joined the party to use as a political platform, big surprise. She had the connections, and those connections worked for her, and it's not the idealized beautiful version of democracy one might hope for but it's the political reality one has to adapt to. Clinton adapted, and it gave her a 3mil vote win. Argue for changes to the policial process, that's great! There's definitely room for improvment. But to say it has been "proven that the primaries were stolen" is just not true.

They absolutely did tamper with the votes though. Just do some simple searches and you can figure it out. Many exit polls in places such as California and New York ect. were 15-30% off. Anything over 2% is considered voter fraud.

I can do some "simple searches" to prove Obama did 9/11, I would prefer if you could provide some concrete sources for your claims.

Also I hope you're aware that exit polls being off is in no way shape or form proof of voter fraud. Especially if you can't reference the specific poll, since deviations depend on the sample and the methodology of those who conduct them. She consistently polled ahead in Cali, demographics predicted a secure win in Cali and guess what, she won Cali.

Those same polls predicted her dominating Trump. Obviously the polls are skewed to reflect the dems agenda. Believe what you want though

Still no source.

And you don't understand how polls work. Some poll aggregators had shitty methodology, inferring a conspiracy from that is what you'd expect from a forum like this but nonetheless redundant and stupid. 538 was pretty accurate though. They gave him like a 30% chance of winning and said from the start that "fundamentals" predicted a close race. They also predicted Clinton pop vote win with Trump EC win as a very possible scenario well before the election.

There's no massive conspiracy encompassing hundreds of different pollsters to promote an agenda. If the democrats had that sort of power you'd have a democratic president coming up. The polls were within standard MoE, statistical deviations is a much simpler and more believeable explanation than your armchair conclusions about the evil media.

Lol the polls were oversampling the dems heavily to push an agenda plain and simple. They tried everything they could to steal it and failed. Tons of precincts had over 100% of registered voters vote Hillary, please explain that?? Why do you sit there and defend these liars? It is sad tbh. The nation rose up and woke up to vote for Trump. So many people who have never voted in there life came out and voted and thats the truth. The dems rigged it, just not enough to win

And had such a melodious cackle when she said "We came, we saw, he died! Hawhawhaw"

She was so good at destabilizing countries and funding covert armies (blinks back tear)--gonna miss her. sniffle.

I am sorry but you must not pay attention to reality. She IS a criminal. What the DNC did to Bernie, in HER name, was criminal. She supports the current Saudi regime which beheads women for talking to a man the wrong way. She launders billions of dollars in her Clinton Foundation, only 5% is donated to help anyone but her and her friends. She represents pay to play politics, the same as Trump. The ONLY "brilliant" candidate was Bernie, too bad he was too honest to perform in this fantastic circus that we call "politics".

What the DNC did to Bernie, in HER name, was criminal.

EXTREMELY overblown. Just fucking absurd at this point honestly.

She supports the current Saudi regime which beheads women for talking to a man the wrong way.

No shit, it's called international diplomacy. You don't shit on the Saudis because they will turn around and fund mujahideen.

She launders billions of dollars in her Clinton Foundation, only 5% is donated to help anyone but her and her friends.

Give me a credible source. You won't because you fucking made this up you absolute spastic.

She represents pay to play politics, the same as Trump

Sure-this is how politics unfortunately works, but before you put Bernie's dick back in your mouth ask yourself why he continually met with Union leaders etc who flooded his campaign with donations. Isn't that the same damn thing??

Where the FUCK are you cretins coming from? HOLY SHIT. r/politics is leaking

This subreddit was invaded by shills overnight once Pizzagate came out.

The funny part is that they actually think posts like that will convince people. In the fucking conspiracy subreddit. Seems like an epic waste of time and money.

You're right, they don't convince anyone. And it doesn't even matter since the election is over.

Which is why it's pretty ridiculous that you think they're paid to do it.

And it doesn't even matter since the election is over.

Theyre not here because of the election anymore, theyre here to stop the spread of information that will land them in hot water, anyone who's been on here for the last month knows that.

You mean the pizzagate stuff?

Nothing will ever come from that, and in a years time you'll have forgotten you ever thought or cared about it and have replaced it with the next big "truth".

But I heard on a website that she ran a pizza shop...

Now this is a conspiracy I can't get behind at all.

Lmao this post gave me cancer. If you need someone to explain all the ways Hillary is corrupt then you don't belong on this subreddit. Go back to your echo chambers in r/politics, buddy. Hillary would have done anything to win the election, even if it meant tearing her party apart to become president.

Bernie should have won the nomination. If Hillary would have thought for the better good and not her own selfish aspirations we wouldn't have Donald as a president. It's funny how now she's complaining about voting fraud when it clearly wasn't an issue to her when it helped her beat Bernie. Seriously, did you just plug your ears this entire election cycle and ignore all the corruption she shamelessly displayed?

She used every damn dirty trick in the book trying to win this election and she still lost. Thats how unelectable she was and how much the American public hated her. she couldn't even win against Donald trump for Christ sakes. The man grabbing people by the pussy. How terrible of a candidate do you have to be to lose to someone like that?

The American public won't be fooled by people like you who think saying a couple nice things about a corrupt individual will change how people view her.

she was a fantastic candidate for president: brilliant, extremely hard-working, admired by everyone who worked with her (including republicans), with hundreds of coveted endorsements from around the world and in the U.S., with detailed policies and how to implement them posted... if she got elected into the White House with Bill at her side, she would have been one of the truly great presidents.

hahahaha. this is the funniest fucking thing I've ever seen on here.

No, she lost because she did not put in the work. She spoke to the public for maybe 15 minutes a week. She disappeared for days at a time. Mostly, she just went to fundraisers with the ultra rich and famous. She didn't bother visiting Wisconsin for 7 months before the election. She called a quarter of the voters deplorables. Trump was speaking to the public for over 2 hours a day for 18 months. He had hour long policy speeches on each of his positions. Hillary never talked policy once. In order to get a crowd, she had to employ Jay Z, Beyonce and Michelle Obama. It was the white voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin who voted for Obama last time around that went to Trump. It has nothing to do with race or sex. It has to do with feeling included. She was the establishment candidate picked by the 1%. America did not want that.

This GIF sums up why she lost.

https://i.sli.mg/jm9dDs.gif

https://i.sli.mg/jm9dDs.gif

But muh Russia

James Comey lost me the election!

WOW

when /r/politics leaves the echo chamber.

Get back in the basket

Oh no, your safe space has people disagreeing!

Not sure if serious, but regardless: The fact that this has a positive upvote ratio on /r/conservative is fucking sorcery. As soon as the election was over Trump support dropped heavily on reddit. And yet Clinton was the one with the paid shills right? All of her support was fake right? And yet here we are.

I guess this the The_Donalds latest attempt to make it to the front page?

Cyka blyat they're onto us

Ciswhitemaelstrom openly discussed their agenda to take over Reddit. It included creating several satellite subs and brigading other ones to make sure their message hit the front page often.

It was a popular front page post of his. It's not even a secret.

Somebody's TRIGERRED...

But isn't that like saying, "if you grant me my central premise, then my argument makes sense."

But, the central premise is a fact. She is a criminal. How much more evidence do we need?

Apparently quite a bit since she wasnt convicted

You're right, once I start believing things with no evidence, everything seems to make sense!

If bird shit hits your head, there's proof that there's a bird flying in the sky....you don't even need to see the bird.

That's circular reasoning. You said it was bird shit to begin with, so that implies the conclusion of it being a bird from the start.

I know bird shit when I see it.

Yes, but it doesn't mean it was produced by a bird flying around in the air, as you claimed. I could have put it in a jar and slung it at you without you seeing.

Unless you saw the bird in the air, actually shit, and then hit you, then you have an assumption. That is it.

The conspiracy Clinton committed against the electoral process is demonstrated by the leaked emails, not "I know a conspiracy when I see one"

You guys don't need to threaten civil war every time things don't go your way.

Why would they go nuts if it's done legally? They seem to be fans of the electoral college nowadays.

I don't think it's going to happen, though.

The more likely scenario is all the Democrats agree to vote for a John Kasich or a Mitt Romney along with the 39 GOP electors they would need to defect to hit 270 (the most likely is that Trump is confirmed)

Come here for the outlandish BS, stay for the cognitive dissonance.

In fairness Hillary being evil doesn't somehow make Trump 'good'.

He's already messed up a lot.. just look at his pick for EPA.

Except Hillary is in no way a criminal. Many people have been brainwashed and cannot distinguish reality and chose to see things only as they want them, not as they really are. I'd like to see ONE piece of evidence that she is a "criminal". Bullshet from Fox or Breitbart or Rush or Alex Jones does not count

Nah man, if anyone is a shill, it is you. You peddle Russian agitprop talking points all day, every fucking day. You're either stupid as fuck or a shill.

"Once you force everything you see or read to conform to your pre-existing worldview and assume anyone who disagrees with you is a paid operative, everything makes so much sense!"

Congratulations on your amazing discovery OP!

It's almost like they forgot the private email server was in itself a crime.

Except the CIA explicitly said it wasn't (negligence/recklessness isn't knowledge/intent), whereas people in Trump's circle have been convicted of that same crime.

She was also proven to lie under oath.

Give me one example.

r/politics is leaking

lol yes, once you start to view a presidential candidate as a criminal you lose a bit of objectivity.

Well she was under investigation by the FBI for nearly her entire election. I know she is innocent until proven guilty but she could just as easily not set up a private fucking server.

She was investigated because it doesn't even matter if she's guilty or not - once an investigation has been started partisanship will push people to assume her guilt. The investigation found nothing criminal. Just as the previous investigations. And yet, that's not what we hear. We hear "Well she was under investigation by the FBI for nearly her entire election". Which means it worked.

Well she was under investigation and was found to be extremely negligent and careless.

Yep, she was found guilty of not following the security protocol. Which is not a crime. Which is why I (and the person you originally responded to) argue that people who call her a criminal are fueled by partisanship rather than any objective analysis. Which you felt the need to object to.

Look I can understand where you're coming from, but just don't make this one mistake: Don't use wealth of investigations as implication of guilt.

The democrats (and the GOP) threw the first stone when they called Trump a racist. Politics is very nasty business.

Calling someone a racist is fairly subjective though. Criminality is not. I don't call someone out when they call Clinton crooked, or evil, or 'bought by wall street', because while i may disagree at times those things are open for interpretation. Criminality is defined by the law, and the highest agencies of criminal justice in the US have said that it doesn't apply.

Yea tomato tomato. They use to call Trump a rapist as well which I do not believe is subjective.

Both sides (supporters) called each other rapists, and neither should have. Same with the various health conditions that were implied based on equally shitty evidence. I'd say Trump relied way more heavily on those lines of attack though, pushing health issues, rape accusers etc constantly but I guess that is subjective too and you'd probably disagree.

Well we called Bill Clinton a rapist. He did what he had to do. Hillary never once spoke about policy. She was 50% anti-Trump and 50% empty Obama rhetoric. Trump was giving hour long policy speeches on each of his issues. People listened and watched.

https://i.sli.mg/jm9dDs.gif

It really shows the difference of the realities when you think Clinton was the one with "empty rethoric". Clinton had tons of substantive and detailed policy plans, just because you didn't tune in to them doesn't mean they didn't happen. You can argue about wether or not they would work, but they certainly existed. Listen to what a candidate says and not what your candidate says that the other candidate is saying.

Clinton had tons of substantive and detailed policy plans, just because you didn't tune in to them doesn't mean they didn't happen

Find me one time where she talked about her potential policies for more than 5 minutes. You will be hard pressed to find it. Meanwhile, I can find an hour long speech on on ten separate issues.

You can argue about wether or not they would work, but they certainly existed. Listen to what a candidate says and not what your candidate says that the other candidate is saying.

I listened to Hillary everytime she spoke because I do believe that knowing both sides is important and I also need the cannon fodder to use fighting with her supporters. It wasn't hard, she would give me week long breaks between speeches. I voted Kerry, Obama, Obama, Trump btw.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEXrz71O40A

Google + 5 seconds.

But of course you've already seen that because you supposedly have listened to Hillary everytime she spoke.

She doesn't talk about policy at all though. She is just saying

"make the rich pay there share." And then she is just saying what Trump said. She is literally saying bring back manufacturing jobs and give incentives to companies who keep their workers here.

Thanks though. I hadn't seen this one. Got any more?

I could equivalently just reduce any of Trump's policy speeches to him standing around saying "We will make america great again and bring back manufacturing jobs, believe me." Plus you posted that 6 minutes after I linked a 40+min video, so you could not possibly have watched it. It's so hilariously telling that you watch at most 10% of a clip and then feel confident to say she doesn't talk about policy at all. So much for "knowing both sides".

I skimmed. No sense in watching it now. Trump's policy speeches are most organized into ten or some point plans of action. Not all over the place.

If you didn't watch it how the hell are you gonna say she didn't talk about policy at all?

Okay. You're right. I'm going to watch it and get back to you. Remind me.

did you watch the debates lol

Yes I did. Those were not debates.

wrong wrong

Exactly.

well she was proven innocent by the FBI. i mean do you really think SHE set up a server? or do you think shes an old lady?

There are emails between her and Colin Powell discussing how to get around security protocols. Being old doesn't make up for negligence and incompetence. And frankly, if the DNC and John Podesta could be so careless with their information, I would rather them nowhere near any classified materials. They knew they were targets and still had shitty OPSEC.

I love how y'all like pretending Hillary Clinton still is some kind of bogeyman. She's gone. Done. You defeated her. There's nothing left for her to do. She's now only a random civilian just like you.

If any of us did what she did with her private server in her position we'd be in jail. Hillary will never be just a random civilian.

Well, I'm not a criminal, so I'm definetely not like her. GTFO, Gazumo, you're crazy.

It's refreshing the see the overwhelming rejection of these propaganda posts in the comments after the year of bullshit where we were drowned out my disinformation spammers with multiple accounts.

This subreddit is supposed to be about searching through information to find the full picture of what's happening in the world, beyond what is said in the news. These posts are so clearly bullshit that they stand out as it's the digital equivalent of a crazy on a soapbox screaming.

Clinton isn't suggesting that Russia interfered with the election. The FBI and CIA are. And they have no love for the Clintons.

Who's going to jail? Did they announce an indictment of anyone? Or did they clear Hillary multiple times on different investigations?

Chelsea is now also being investigated. Podesta warned that this would be a problem.

Shes not going to jail though Trump already stated that he only said that because it "played well". If Trump supporters wanted real change they should of voted for Bernie, instead of being duped by fast talking conman who told them what they wanted to hear.

Are you Berning yet?

Feel the bern

How could they have voted for Bernie? He stopped running for POTUS after Clinton got the nomination.

What are you talking about concerning the child porn.

Yeah, who is it? Was it a reference to Anthony Weiner sexting underage girls or someone different?

I upvote half the stuff on this sub so more people on Reddit can see how crazy most of the posts are. This one is really something.

"Once you pretend you're right about one thing, all the other things you think you're right about make sense!"

Jesus Christ try some critical thinking. Whether or not Clinton is a criminal this is one of the stupidest sounding things I've ever heard here.

The "Trump is with Putin" narrative is being pushed hard so people won't realize the truth. Trump was with Clinton.

[deleted]

Shhhh don't burst the bubble

What's the Pence/pedophilia link?

Edit: Don't downvote me for asking for evidence to a claim.

I would also like more info on this

It has to look real, or else it wouldn't work.

I partially agree with this, but theres not really any proof of this, aside from maybe the obama birth certificate stuff where trump backed off. How else has he shown his allegiance to the clintons, aside from some photos hes taken with them in the past?

If Hillary is dirty enough to rig the DNC, why not the whole damn thing?

Besides, it really doesn't matter who is in the hot seat, as long as we're playing red vs. blue, we lose. The truth is, both sides are playing for their own benefit, which in many cases means they're working together behind closed doors.

I don't have proof, just a gut feeling. We pretend those gut feelings aren't real, but they're sometimes more real than anything a news outlet can tell us. After all, they are the ones who get to decide what news is "real news" and what news is "fake news."

This whole thing, no matter who is the president, is going to have us with less and the elites with more. Freedom, money, land, whatever.

We're fucked, and people who pretend Trump cares about them are sadly mistaken. None of them care about any of us except for where our slave labor is useful to them.

I mean, again - I do agree with you. But i dont understand how they have done such a good job covering up Trump's corruption. Other figures in the public eye are considerably more obviously corrupt than he is. If he is totally on hillary's side, they've done a good job covering it up, I'll grant them that

I don't think he's on Hillary's side per se, I think they're on the same side over all.

Hillary didnt control the DNC. She had supporters there, which should be no big surpirse, just as Trump had his at the RNC.

Trump reversing stance on birtherism always felt odd to me.

Maybe it was pressure from his campaign staff to "normalize".

Maybe it was a bargain with Obama/DNC to get them to drop something from the oppo file.

But it just came out of nowhere.

Its hilarious, because they pummeled him for the birther stuff during the debates, but the BC turned out being fake after all lol

Follow the money right? If there are any financial ties between them that would be immediately damning, even more than his suspect appointments so far. I don't know of any yet but maybe this is what we need to be looking for to put the question of his legitimacy to bed. I for one don't believe anyone makes it all the way to the presidency, or even candidacy, with clean hands under this establishment. He might just be playing the fall guy and doing a damn good job of it.

Psst. View them all as criminals.

The next month won't be a very dangerous time for us... You don't want the populace to be in fear... they should stay aware, but not afraid. All the worst parts of the WWIII script have been avoided... NSA knows all... and leaked to all the right people in all the right ways... they don't want war on American soil and everyone on the level has coordinated to block everything in the playbook.

There was a lot of dirty tricks planned because HRC doesn't play by the rules... she was compromised for years... people were watching her every move... and she was planning some horrific stuff. But she got put into custody on election night... along with her whole posse... only allowed out for special highly controlled events. Shes gone dark to her international backers that paid for a US/Russian war to go down... cause both nations were getting a little too "uncorrupt" to be safe.

Comey's FBI & Friends cockblocked every single terrorist act on American soil from a day or two before the election... WWIII was already supposed to be mounting right now... WJC and HRC out of the picture keeps the US safe... cause all the "terrorists" on the payroll are broke and see what just happened... so they are too scared to act when there is no one to protect them.

Soros has a lot of money tied up in destabilizing America right now, but for as much as a total fuckhead that he is... he plays by rules... not like HRC... he won't break laws. Manipulating humanity is like a game of chess to him... he won't cheat because it is all about prestige and honor and self satisfaction. He won't be a poor loser like HRC. He will keep the organizations he has funded already going... since he has no morals. But he won't get too crazy... he never does.

We're in the clear... don't be scared... but stay vigilant... we're not out of the woods yet, but the worst is behind us. The White Hats out there in the world have control of the ship now... seas are still a bit choppy but the perfect storm is over.

Comey is on board with the Russia narrative and he was one of the more ardent "INVESTIGATE THE EMAILS" people and a thorn in Hilary's ass regularly.

Unless of course you're Vladimir Putin, in which case everything is going to plan.

Yeh, that makes total sense with Trump taking away foreign affairs patsy smucks and replacing them with hard core generals....makes a lot of fucking sense.....all according to plan.

When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

Now ask yourself who benefits from having hardline militarists, and corporatists in the executive wing. It sure as hell isn't likely to be the guy on the street wondering when that pothole is getting fixed, or when their local school will be getting new books, and that's really the problem over the last 50 years.

Corporatists have largely stopped any investment in the United States proper, hospitals, schools, libraries, sewer systems, roads, electrical grids, all date from the 1950's or 1960's, when the corporate elite figured there were greener pastures overseas and figured the United States wasn't worth investing in.

Germany, France and other countries can have social support systems, but fuck it, the US and her people DEFINITELY don't deserve that. So we don't have it. Taxes in real terms are negative for most corporations of appreciable size. Exxon,Walmart, Comcast, and all manner of other large firms receive subsidies for any investment they make domestically.

Manufacturing, for it's part, has undergone the same sort of automation that farming underwent 100 years ago. So in the near term instead of 30 or 40% of "real" jobs being in Manufacturing everyone should expect that number to be 4-5% because that's EXACTLY what happened in Agriculture.

So how exactly do you employ 30% of the US population, a problem to be sure.

Of course we're long since sold on the idea the social support systems, welfare, re-education, etc, are socialism and bad, as opposed to the cost of living in a civilization that's advanced and subject to radical shifts as technology improves.

So when fusion reactors come online (as the fusion demonstrator in Germany says can happen), who employs the coal-miner, or the pipe-line guys when you can pull your energy supply straight from the air, or from seawater.

Of course being a bunch of militarists is money in the bank if you mean to kick up another war in Iraq or Iran or where-ever.

The fact that China and Iran and Russia have a military alliance - is not mentioned in polite GOP circles because it's a non-starter in terms of a war. It's BAD.

So we start dicking around with Iran, because we're strong, right, sounds right, they want nukes, and our Israeli allies would rather they don't.

Too fucking bad, all China has to do, to - impress upon the American people is any one of a dozen things, from suddenly running out of DIMM chip memory, to calling our debt (roughly 3-4 trillion dollars) or impose a tariff on any number of our commodities, or worse, pick an industry and swamp this or that marketplace with cheap knockoffs. Economic warfare is no joke.

So blowhard politics are not appropriate, I may not like it, but this isn't checkers , it's that wonderful 4d chess everyone keeps harping on about.

And we're gunning up to play the most kick-ass checkers game, ever it's gonna be huge.

r/politics is leaking

or is /r/conspiracy leaking into /r/politics, given the current state of affairs, who can say.

Lol nice false equivalency dr. spin.

Possibly.

This is why I have ALWAYS hated the Clintons. They have never cared about how the consequences of their actions impact the lives of others.

Even just forgetting conspiracy theory stuff, just look at issues that are settled fact, public record. Bill fucking around with his damn intern in the Oval Office. Hillary lying about the Youtube video in Benghazi (yes, it is a confirmed lie). The way they just took millions and millions from foreign governments through the CF. The fucking email server which should not have existed in the first place.

It is not merely that they did these things with total disregard for consequences, but that they consistently lie about everything they do, even after they've been caught, and instead pressure their surrogates to go into full spin mode to do damage control.

This whole Russia thing is the absolute apex of their manipulative bullshit and is doing INCREDIBLE damage not only to this country, but to Obama too! Because Hillary fucked this election up so badly Obama is flushing his legacy down the toilet by tainting the last days of his presidency with this new Red Scare bullshit. What a disgrace, but boy am I glad she's gone for good now.

but boy am I glad she's gone for good now.

Silly wabbit, did you think it would be easy? She's not gone yet. https://youtu.be/zu0rP2VWLWw

conspiracies have always happened through history, yet today people think it is impossible for them to happen.

Soros didnt hire protesters. A pro troll said that and the right loved it so much they repeat it.

You are aware he funds political action groups directly that hire protestors?

Potatoe, Patataoe

ohh you mean like this

http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/how-your-oculus-rift-is-secretly-funding-donald-trumps-racist-meme-wars/

oh wait thats palmer funding trump's hate memes

You know memes come from 4chan and other places on the net for free right?

No one needs to fund memes.

Once you realize that there's a funded cottage industry built around making you believe that the Clintons are criminals on the basis of no (or manufactured) evidence, the reason you think that she's involved in a criminal conspiracy make more sense.

Otherwise you have to believe that despite being the most incompetent criminal conspirators of all time - they lost money in Whitewater, "everybody knows" Vince Foster was murdered to look like a suicide, she somehow "stole" an election that she lost and conceded, Comet Ping Pong is the world's most famous pedophilia ring that neighborhood families have rallied around in support - they've never fucked up such that they can actually be shown to have broken the law.

I mean, it's amazing. Somehow they make all these mistakes and get outsmarted by whoever the Republican belle du jour is that day (and every right winger who winks to his buddies and says "I'm too smart to fall for Clinton's schemes!") but yet they're so wily that nobody can catch them doing it. How does that work? The Silk Road guy couldn't stay out of the hoosegow on account of, what, his chat logs? But the FBI and fucking WikiLeaks has every email that Clinton ever sent to anyone and there's nothing they can arrest her for?

In the 90's everyone I knew called him "Slick Willy" on account of how easily Bill Clinton seemed to slip right out of all these scandals. Gosh, maybe the reason that the Clintons "slip out" of all these seemingly career-ending, seemingly deeply criminal enterprises is because those "scandals" are always fucking fantasies engineered by the right-wing to make the diarrhea-frosted fart sundaes running on the Republican side seem more appetizing by comparison? But naw, emails.

r/politics is completely controlled, any negative hillary post is downvoted into oblivion and then "removed by an autobot" . most news is also censored by their carefully crafted rules like "rehosted content" aka- properly sourced/cited, or "outdated" if its something that happened 1 month ago, or "banned source" for anything that isn't part of their network of fake news

This election has left me feeling like Rowdy Roddy Piper in "They Live"...especially the part where you fight your friends in hopes that they'll just put on the glasses.

Shillary is bought and paid for; we all know this because we all know that politicians in general are bought and paid for. They are Nascar vehicles, we just don't have the stickers to show ownership sponsorship. But what very few seem to be thinking of is who owns Trump? I think with the number of Big Oil execs and Big Banking execs in his cabinet and thinktank, it's quite clear that the same good ol' boys own him as well. If we go to war with Russia, who gains?

The Military Industrial Complex

With war, comes profits. The biggest profiteers will be those providing the arms, which, at least since the 80's, are a very limited group of corporations, most of which are American and European. Do you think they won't slobber all over themselves at the prospect of a new Cold War?

Big Oil

Or, more exact, Big Gas. Russia provides huge amounts of natural gas to Europe, but it is state owned, not in the hands of the biggest western companies. What would happen if the might of the west actually put the final, finishing blows to the Russian state that was severely weakened in the late 80's? Likewise, Russia still has a lot of sway with the Oil providing states that are not wrapped around America's finger, like Syria (where we failed to overthrow the gov't), Brazil (a large part of the BRIC economies), etc.

The BRIC

If the Elite are hedging their bets, and if America loses or fails to cripple Russia should a war, even a Cold War, be kicked off, the BRIC economies will grow unchecked and America will lose its place atop the world economies. Business which have sunk capital deeply into these economies (Brazil, Russia, India, Indonesia, and China) will reap huge rewards. Is this why, before even taking over as president, Trump is busy spitting in China's face with the Taiwan call and twitter BS?

There are countless other winners and countless other reasons, but these three are the first things that came to my mind. This sub, at least since T_D swooped through this year, has been VERY concentrated on Shillary as the spark for every bad thing that can happen, but has given Trump a pass even as he selects Cabinet members who are CLEARLY not the choices he swore he'd make (remember his constant harping on Shillary's speech to Goldman Sachs, what the fuck happened?) throughout his election run. What I'm saying is that I'm thinking it's all a long con from the elite like it always has been before. Trump isn't a new outsider here to clean up the gov't, he's just another chess piece in their arsenal of "Divide and Conquer" and they are winning by doing exactly that.

It's the Kansas City Shuffle, people. Everyone's lookin' left...

Still waking up, but gotta say, great post. Thank you.

If you forget reality you'll think trump would be a good president.

You're absolutely right. Why should I base my opinion on what he has said during the year or so of the primaries and general election? The people he has picked for his cabinet and other positions. We should just wait until after he's been president for 4 years before we think he'ss be a good president.

YES! at least the haters/libtards can wait until he makes his cabinet picks to judge him. trump will pick true outsiders who will shake up the establishment and properly represent the working-class people of america (FINALLY!). hillary would have picked corporate insiders like goldman and exxon execs who don't have the working class interests in mind. once we drain the swamp, we will finally start to see real change and the cucks will have no choice but to admit they were dead wrong.

Yes, we should just wait to see if he'll reduce or end the sanctions against Russia, end the treaty with Iran and see what happens. I'm sure you haven't noticed that Russia is the leading supporter & supplier of Iran of military and economic aid. Let us see, he has already implied that we will not help fellow NATO countries if they are invaded by Russia or anybody else, suggested that we will support Pakistan in the border conflict with India (both nuclear countries) and pissed of china.

Let us not forget that Russia and Iran are talking with and supporting Al-Qaeda and Taliban in Afghanistan. You know the group that attacked the world trade centers and the pentagon.

Trump is bad, Hillary is bad.... But what about Walter Mondale? He's up to something....

things just got more "very dangerous".

LBJ was in a similar predicament, and then JFK was assassinated. All of his troubles went away suddenly.

Translation: once you paint a candidate as what you want them to be, all the stories that happen to support that viewpoint from a certain perspective, made up or otherwise, make sense cohesively. It's like how 1 + 2 = 5 if you declare that the values of 2 and 4 have been reversed.

One could just as easily paint Trump as benefiting from a conspiracy of colluding factors, many seemingly unrelated. This would have the up-side of being factually accurate.

I think Trump is a narcissistic attention whore with a chip on his shoulder... who is also a puppet of the Comey's FBI and the Armed Forces with approval from Putin. But he also has a heart of gold and he will usher in an age of peace and prosperity on Earth.

Thats how I paint him... but I didn't let anyone paint that for me... I just freestyled that from my own pallet of information.

Of course, by the same logic, it's also the behavior of a normal candidate who was cheated out of a win, with the majority of the country on your side. Fails Occam's Razor.

Says the guy about to get trampled by a Zebra...

Wat?

I think he's high.

Source: also high

Donald trump is in home alone 2.

I'm so liberal and so progressive (outside of my views on the department of education) so this election has fucked me up good politically and morally. I hate my progressive candidate but I can't even be open and willing to look at trump as an ideal option because he's just a rich turd who likes winning and is good at winning. My views have been rattled and I don't know where I am

i don't understand how we have neocon and sjw types both supporting hillary. america is a strange place

I dont think a civil war will happen. Not a chance unless its intervened with internationally. When you look at the demographics of voters for instance, nearly all married men voted for Trump. Half of married women and unmarried men also voted for Trump. Prety much all of unmarried women voted for Hillary. The entire left wouldve voted for Clinton whereas the right wouldve voted for Trump. Who owns guns? The Right. Who only bitches and whines instead of doing anything to solve a problem? The Left. But the right is not outraged nor the ones protesting. Nothing will happen.

Once you start viewing politicians as criminals, everything makes a lot more sense.
Louis Antoine de Saint-Just of the French revolution put it rightly when he said:

One cannot reign innocently: the insanity of doing so is evident. Every king is a rebel and a usurper.

She's more of a criminal than Bush and Dick Cheney will ever be! We must absolutely forget these two and relish our slave mentalities by exclusively focusing on the vile one on the other side of our blind and unquestioning partisan sympathies.

She's more of a criminal than Bush and Dick Cheney will ever be!

I want you all to read that sentence out loud to yourself. Then I want you to read the following out loud to yourself:

9/11.

Then I want you think about the statement again and start breaking your partisan chains like andronicii is suggesting.