Money are shackles used by the elite to control the world. Solution inside.
102 2016-12-21 by LightBringerFlex
They giveth and taketh away as they please. Usually they take but sometimes they have to give to fool the people into thinking the economy has improved. In reality, they have complete control on how this economy moves. With all the available technology, this isn't hard to believe.
There is 1 solution but it might seem risky to some. We eliminate our dependence on money and find another way to keep the world spinning efficiently.
The only solution I can think of for this is Sacred Economics. Note, this economic model does not use any money and there are no laws forcing people to work. Everyone works their passion and we would have to log everyone's occupation in a public database along with their clock in/clock out information. The reason for this is so we can identify who is and isn't working. We can gather a lot of data here but more importantly, we can try to identify why these people aren't working and find peaceful, non-forceful ways to convince them to work. For example, eventually people will realize that:
The more people that work, the better our quality of life worldwide.
Working a passion is not work, its fun. Plus, working alone harnesses respect from our peers and NOT working is against the social norm. Also, those who work "honor jobs" (ie people who pick up the trash) become the most respected workers in society. People can switch jobs anytime they get bored so most will probably do some time in an "honor" job since so many like to be the hero. People will brag about the honor jobs they performed at parties.
Life is wayyyy easier without bills, accountants, bankers, fees, tuition, ect.....
How does this Sacred Economics work? Here's a youtube video and a tldr below:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEZkQv25uEs
Basically, we would have to start off with a large area of land where we can produce all that we need including steel, wood, plastics, food, ect...
Everyone would agree that we will all work for free where we are right now since we know our jobs best. In the future, we will establish a system where we can easily jump jobs and post job listing when more people are needed in a particular field. For example, the liquor store on the corner needs an extra hand. Someone will walk in and volunteer after reading up on it on the internet.
All things will be free but we will educate the masses to only take what they need at the moment. Instead of grabbing 20 diet cokes, just grab 1. If the customer wants a 6 pack for home, that's fine too. Everything should be done with care so that we don't over consume.
The economy is based on sharing. If we are using something, it is ours. If we are NOT using something or have no need for it, we give it away. For example, I get a new vacuum and I give my old vacuum to the vacuum repair shop who will restore it and give it to another person. Or, I no longer play video games and give my Playstation to the kid next door. Giving is very easy. Accepting a gift is easy to but if that gift goes unused, it should be re-gifted.
Sacred Economics is based on gifting which has amazing affects on the mind of the people. It brings people closer together in a more family like society. Basically, nobody is forced to sacrifice themselves for others but we will regularly help each other which is how a family should work.
Obviously, this would take quick thinking and a sharp wit at first. A lot of the natural leaders of the world (in reality, we all could be a leader if we choose) would work their local neighborhoods and the country through online communications to quickly fix all the problems that pop up here and there. Every new endeavor like a new business copes up with unique problems that have to solved quickly but these problems usually diminish overtime until a steady system takes root. In truth, it will be fun as hell so I don't even consider this work.
Once the dependency on money shifts to a dependency on each other, the elite's power will literally crumble before their feet. There is no way to control us if we don't use money. Sure, they can put a gun to our head but they can't kill us all and they can't imprison us all. I wouldn't even worry about it because worrying is what the elite wants you to do. They control you not only with money but through fear. The easiest way to counter fear is to not think about the future since fear only exists in the future. Think about the now and be responsible now and that simple trick will cut off the feelings of fear which the elite have used for ages to control us. By doing that and cutting off the dependency of money, the elite have lost control and much power.
Once the elite lose massive power, they will run off to the areas of the world that still use money and try to control them but then the world will realize how much better life is without money and join the club. At that point, the psychopaths will no longer have a home in government since they don't get what they want which is top-down power via a slavery model. This is the main desire for psychopaths. They see the world as a complete threat and are very paranoid and so the only way they feel safe is with a top down slavery control model where they hold the club and they club anyone who doesn't follow their wishes as punishment. As you can see in their Eyes Wide Shut parties, they have all kinds of references to slavery in their "art". They love slavery because being the slave master equates to safety for them. The underlying problem is that they think that all people are just as dangerous and disgusting as themselves so they see an evil world. The only way to control these evil people are to enslave them. This is their mistake.
If we were to take this bold, ambitious actions, then a lot of new things would follow. The whole government structure would eventually change and we would have more control over our systems like education, health care, ect.. which is good because we want to guide these systems ourselves. I trust the masses more than I do someone like Obama and I'm not even sure wtf Trump is doing hiring all these bankers right now.
The people need to take bold, ambitious actions to counter the bold, ambitious actions of the global cabal. The people hold a lot more power than the global cabal but we don't exercise it while the cabal does. The cabal works tirelessly to maintain their power because it takes a godly amount of energy to fool 7 billion people. On the other hand, the people are so many in number, we only need to put some effort in to move mountains since there are so many of us. I can easily see a 5 hour work day if we implemented sacred economics since we have so many people in the world. Right now, a large chunk of people are NOT working because of the broken systems created by the elite that hinder the work flow. For example, one guy refuses to work for minimum wage so he doesn't work or another person can't stand the slavery models used at work and is repelled by the thought of working in these work environment. Sacred economics is more of a free will model where managers are only there to guide the employees like a coach rather than a slave master.
If you are game with this, don't wait for anyone else to jump ship before jumping ship in your own mind. If we can hold this thought for long enough, it will actually spread the idea faster. There are already many people on board but we would need tons of people to be on board for it to become a reality. For those who think a few changes in the law will fix anything, keep in mind that the elite will simply find new ways to loot the economy. They always have.
Just look at these clowns. They sacrifice children on altars and they created the systems that govern us. Do you think anything about this system is good? Its all shit. The people are brainwashed to think these systems are the best in the world! Its all lies. These systems are the best in the world for the elite only. Notice they are all falling apart because they are broken systems.
I say we stay as ambitious as humanly possible for the entirety of the planet instead of just for ourselves. The combo effect of people working together is staggering but we were never taught this in school. A group that is focused on being helpful to itself is a very powerful group. The elite knows this so they promoted an "every man for himself" model which is actually a terrible idea and its a broken one.
If you are on board, simply hold this model in your mind in case conversations about it pop up at family events or parties. This is how these idea spread. If most people are on board, we can eventually designate some stretch of land to build up a beta version of society. Once beta is complete, we can expand. Anyone who wants to move to the beta area of the world is welcome.
High ambition is a good thing folks. Believing in humanity is another great step. If you believe in humanity, you will believe in yourself. If you reject humanity as stupid, you also reject yourself as being stupid. Remember, we have been severely brainwashed by the elite and so many of us have lost hope but its all a big lie. We have to reverse the damage done by all the brainwashing and much, much more. There are too many of us. We can do all of it very quickly once we operate in unison.
I know some people will disagree with this idea and that's fine but I am being realistic here. I truly believe a massive amount of ambition is needed here. We need to solve all of our major problems on a global scale using massive new ideas that have never been tried before. We also need to do it as a group mind instead of having some chump in the White House making all the decisions for us and telling us how to think.
Edit: I just ran across a cool 3 minute video to support this post:
67 comments
14 Ms_Curi0sity 2016-12-21
I agree that money is a tool used to control the masses but not sure I agree with this method... sounds a little communistic or like it could very easily turn into communism.
7 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
Some people have told me that this sounds like communism but look at the differences:
Communism, forced labor, forced assignment.
SE, volunteer labor force, individuals choose what job they want.
Communism uses money. The government keeps most of it and then gives a few pennies to the people.
SE doesn't use money whatsoever and there is no purchasing involved. Money is kept out of the picture entirely.
3 PrincessLovey 2016-12-21
Great ideas, but there will always be greedy people so how do we prevent that? What happens to them?
2 Jobexi 2016-12-21
Those who are interested in a non-monetary society simply take the "Your money's no good here", approach. Someone wants to be greedy? Okay. You can want to be greedy, but we don't want to fuel your greed. You want to take over by implementing a system of control where some have and others have not? No thanks, we've had that model for a few thousand years: It's time to move on.
Once we have a non-monetary economy, making sure we don't go back is a simple as refusing to participate in something that tries to go back.
2 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
I tell you, punishment is a total fail. Punishment is something a primitive species does and we are primitive but I think we will grow out of this hopefully in my lifetime. The problem with punishment is that once the intimidating policeman is removed from the situation, the criminal continues to commit crime.
In reality, belief causes behavior. If a criminal believes his only way to make money is crime, then he will commit crime when the cops aren't looking. We can punish him all we want but until his belief changes, the crime goes on. If we fixed this world so that money isn't a huge issue like it is now, the criminal will believe that he can live in decency without having to commit crime.
Using this model, we need to educate the people who refuse to work because they have a right now to. This is true. It is up to free will but why would someone refuse to work? There are many reasons. We need to dig into each others minds and understand each other. We need to teach each other how important and honorable work is. We need to teach each other how rewarding work is especially when one is following their own passion. We need to motivate each other by counseling each other through our family and neighborhood units. We have to help each other instead of selfishly worrying about ourselves. You can't even blame people for being selfish because they believe they only have enough power to take care of themselves with the low wages they dish out nowadays.
We would need meetings to exchange ideas and work through problems just like a massive business. Nobody is at the top. Everyone is equal but the wiser ones of any particular field should be managers to guide the others although the manager and employee are exactly equal.
A few bad apples are no big deal but we will try to keep unemployment down as much as possible. There is always something to do. There is always a job opening. The more people who work the better. It is also very important to teach people to worry about their own mind first before waiting for others. People have to go out and work even if others don't so that these, more mature types, can set an example for others.
1 tmogmo 2016-12-21
The problem isn't a person's belief, it's their neuromodulation. By the way, belief is just mental conditioning, i.e. MKULTRA.
That societal model doesn't work when there are drugs like amphetamines that alter neuromodulation. The sustained dopamine would allow someone to mentally check out, or even become a wolf among the sheep and exploit that society for no reason at all. You said no punishment, right?
And it's not just drugs, the successful people of the world are born with their neuromodulation naturally high. Some of those naturally high people become serial killers.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
These are the things people need to discuss and figure out as we go. All I know is that our current systems have backfired so badly on us that we have all these problems right now.
Everything is connected. Drug trade, desperation, drug usage, money, psychological problems ect..
1 GoodolBen 2016-12-21
Indoctrination is the only way that comes to mind, and I don't see it not turning into a totalitarian state.
2 b-your-own-gradskool 2016-12-21
the system you described pretty much is Communism... Communism is based on the concept of mutual aid ("From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"), abolishing the concept of wage labor, and a withering away of the State to the goal of a stateless society. What is this Sacred Economics bullshit? read about communism, socialism, anarchism.. do people not know that there are alternatives to capitalism?
2 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
Ya but I have been saying that Communism uses money and money is the slave chain. The idea is to depart from our dependency on money to a dependency on each other which is what SE provides. We are the real value. Not some piece of paper. There will be many versions of government throughout the ages but I think we are learning that money is the damn root of all problems. It literally causes so many problems I can't count them all. Think about money related problems outside of just not having it. There are countless problems. (ie theft, corruption, business going bankrupt and shutting down, having to file taxes, gambling, massive advertising campaigns all day long to generate more money, homelessness, lack of affordable health care, metal problems caused by financial struggle, inferiority feelings of those who can't make a buck because of a bad economy, ect..).
3 b-your-own-gradskool 2016-12-21
Yeah i agree with your critique of money-- stateless communism does not use money (what i meant by the term 'abolition of wage labor'). really read up on communism and anarchism. you are describing a society based on a mutual aid gift economy-- i think you'd like anarchist theory if you've never checked it out.
2 obsessedowl 2016-12-21
communism is not forced labor........please educate yourself
1 thetruthhurts2016 2016-12-21
Problem is, a signifigant amount of the population doesn't want to work.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
I have relatives from commi countries. They told me all about the forced, assigned labor.
1 obsessedowl 2016-12-21
i think you mean state capitalist countries, not commie countries
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
My relatives are from full blown communist countries. They worked weird jobs like caretaker of the cemetery. Things they didn't even know much about. Also, the people worked in a lazy fashion since they weren't allowed to pick their occupation with free will which is extremely important for production efficiency type purposes.
1 obsessedowl 2016-12-21
thats just a dictatorship- not communism
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
It's communism. They came from the old Soviet Union.
1 obsessedowl 2016-12-21
It wasn't really communism- only used that name
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
In that case communism never existed in any country.
1 obsessedowl 2016-12-21
Pretty much, and now the concept of communism is always linked with dictators
11 spite19 2016-12-21
I always hear that the current system is not working and we need something different. Very people offer a plausible alternative, but this makes sense. Freeing people from consumerism and materialism could open up minds, creativity, and help us work on a goal as a community not as individuals.
We all don't need electric drills, or hammers, or wheel barrels but wouldn't it be great if there was a depository of a library of items that we could go and take a loan of things?
The talk of China and their creepy, controlling, citizen credit score system may not be as a bad idea as it seems. The Chinese want to control, but what if we use it to make it into a game of sorts. Everybody gets a score based on their contributions to community and country. What if we use it to give people bonuses for helping out and contributing? If you volunteer 10 hours in a month, you get to receive some kind of tax credit. Make it into a game so people have something to work for and on.
Why aren't we working together to make things better? Does capitalism tap into that survival instinct that kept our species alive? How can we continue to live but include everybody instead of just the lucky and rich (often times these two go together). To make a change you have to be willing to change. We all should become the change we want to see in the world: Ghandi.
5 SnarkyMcFartBlast 2016-12-21
Get rid of the Fed and the IRS first. The treasury can print it's own money to pay down the debt. Get out from under their control.
4 Alptraum626 2016-12-21
I believe it was Thomas Jefferson who said "there are two ways to conquer a nation. one is by debt, the other by force"
3 Nozx 2016-12-21
real communism doesnt used money, and would eventually end very similsir to what you're describing.
of the problems SE shares with communism includes:
Efficiently allocating resources:
with our current level of tech and mathematics we could come up with a baseline of x type of resource per person average, this baseline would be a social reminder and not rigidly enforced as needs change, if someone vastly goes over they'd be under a spotlight to the public, eventually it would even out, most people are greedy due to current systems and the inherently greedy are few
Dealing with scarcity:
scarcity decreases as the tech level rises, pretty sure we could meet our demands for energy, food and land with our current technology
Efficient production comes back to tech,in the past I could see this being impossible, but most production would be increasingly automated as it is already
Dealing with human nature.
a: if what we've seen so far is truly human nature, then we're fucked and we might as well suicide
b: human nature has been curropted or perverted over the generations and this has been reinforced until we've taken it as fact,better yet human nature may be malleable, we'd have to reeducate over generations
Providing impetus for improvement boredom, imagination and creativity are powerful motivators, but this is being bred out of us year after year,it's gotten to the point we're the indie scene has been co-opted
"Unless some hard numbers and concepts are worked out" I agree, hard numbers and trial implementations are needed
the biggest problem I see, is not trying to implement this, but having to defend this. When the drones come by to blow up your fields and buildings, how do plan on handling this?
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
Human nature is a very tricky concept. The mind is like a garden. Either its luscious or its less than luscious and it can be totally barren. The elite know this and they pump out everything they can to ruin the mind gardens of the people. They want to hold us down. By poisoning the minds of the masses and by constantly showing nasty media to the people, they have officially convinced us that we are naturally bad people that are "trying" to be good. This is actually backwards. We are naturally good people trying not to be bad. All the stuff about greed, selfishness, ego, revenge, and other stuff is constantly pumped into our minds through TV and other forms of media.
On the other hand, I am convinced that the government is holding oceans and oceans worth of resources that they hold purposefully to artificially raise prices on the resources which makes them richer.
Finally, in a sharing economy, we take what we need and teach the public to do the same. We don't need a police type force to do this. We run a bunch of laws called "social norms". We need to educate people on how to consume responsibly. Some people will go overboard. We have to work patiently with society without hurting them when they fail like law enforcement does.
As far as the drones, we have to play it by year. I don't think they will drone us but they will send their inspectors over and try to shut us down but the people can resist the shutdown. How can they shut down an entire community that stands up for itself? Let them keep sending in whoever they want. Vigilance is needed towards the beginning but even if the whole thing gets taken down, it will spark the idea of this type of society since a lot of people will be talking about it.
I hear the Pirate Party in Iceland is thinking about doing this. They might be the first ones.
1 Nozx 2016-12-21
I agree on most these accounts as usual, I don't want to wait on iceland neccasarily. Have there been any other groups , organizations, or people that have started working towards this?
We need a location,preferably countryside and outside of the traditional super countries. We need hard numbers and a plan for an initial trial. Is anyone else working on this in mass or even just on the internet ornis this pure theory atm?
2 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
I'm sure the guy who invented Sacred Economics is working on something but other than that, its a brand new type of concept more or less and this would be the general starting ground.
Numbers is kind of easy once we get a stretch of land. This land would have to be miles and miles long to encompass every major necessity like electricity, water, food production, and other necessities. Ideally, something like the size of Rhode Island would be great although RI is more than enough. Its best to keep talking so that ideas pop up as we go. The initial stretch of land is the first major obstacle. All obstacles have solutions though. We would have to keep thinking.
3 SpuckFez 2016-12-21
Money is a Liberator. It allows people to save the fruits of their labors to spend as they see fit (investing, purchasing, saving). Currency is a different issue. We are currently under a horrible system of inflationary notes (currency of a sort) that has lost 98% of its value in the last 100 years (due primarily to inflation). Figure out a way to get us back to a stable monetary system and I'm all ears.
This idea you've put forth sounds both utopian and highly restrictive. No thanks.
2 Jobexi 2016-12-21
You may wish to look into Ubuntu Contributionism.
2 dfu3568ete6 2016-12-21
This sounds a lot like the stuff Castro and Guevara tried to sell the Cuban people on. Sounds good and looks great on paper but when you actually put human beings in charge of it then it all falls to shit. The government becomes too powerful and people end up oppressed and stripped of civil liberties.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
We need to also transfer power,from the few to the many. All that power attracts psychopaths. Can't depend on government so the people need heir own systems.
2 dfu3568ete6 2016-12-21
Its not that simple though... If you spread the power too thin and you end up with poor leadership and too many conflicting desires to make any progress.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
It would be wise to have research groups study on social systems that can be operated by society to govern itself instead of corrupt politicians telling us what to do. This is our downfall.
2 ChiefVideos 2016-12-21
This is what capitalism does to people, it traps their mind into a paradigm where security, self-worth, and even (most-damagingly) happiness comes from nowhere else but the acquisition of money. We’re taught from birth that to be happy is to have more, but the hidden clause is that more is never enough. More is an indefinite term, fluctuating and evolving based on what you currently have.
Here are some promising leads on a no-money society:
Seasteading: or floating islands, are the most imminent possibility of a working no-money nation. It would be nearly impossible to change the system in any existing countries, and since all land is mostly occupied, creating floating cities is our next best bet. This particular company was founded by the billionaire who created paypal, and they already have a host nation which would allow them to build an independent nation off their coastline. If the governments of the world don't blast this idea, we could potentially see many different micro-nations who could compete and offer different forms of government, in the same way businesses do today. You don't like your government in Atlantia? Hope on a boat to Oceania United and drink a mimosa in your circular living room.
http://www.seasteading.org/
The Venus Project: An incredible concept by designer/artist/inventor Jauque Fresco about a resource based economy where technology is used in harmony with nature and humanity. Also, more dome shaped homes, circular cities, and a library where you can check out literally anything.
https://www.thevenusproject.com/
Auroville: This is a place you can live right now, it's an ongoing experiment on how to live without government, religion, and money. They are based in India and I'd like to live there at some point to gain knowledge about how such a society would work on a larger scale.
http://gostica.com/spiritual-lifestile/amazing-city-people-live-without-politics-no-religion-no-money/
There are other communities around the world, not to mention tribal groups which have existed for centuries without the need for money. None of these systems are perfect, it's important to state that. However the system is broken, and creating a society where greed is not rewarded is the first step to reaching the next phase of humanity.
3 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
Great post thanks. I never heard of those before.
1 survivingtime 2016-12-21
I have thought about this a growing amount recently, things here are so backwards. If project paradise were to work even on a small scale the rest of the world would be changed in an instant, they would never allow this and whilst we probably could cope with the asylum seekers we would never be able to handle the terrorism, I can guarantee that would be a real issue, the stakes are just too high to move away right now.
We must let them make the next mistake, if they'd pulled 9/11 in our current state we would have slaughtered them all, right now they are desperate and making things worse for us (anonymity and 'fake news') to appear in control. We must continue to apply pressure and force them to do something they will regret.
Today I watched a firemans reaction to the 2nd tower collapsing, if he knew molten slag was falling from tower 1 prior to it's collapse and that kerosene burns at half the melting point of steel I can assure you lucky Larry Silverstein would have never been nicknamed accordingly.
1 Autocoprophage 2016-12-21
I see a few complaints about communism in this thread but all of them seem to be based on misunderstandings. In reality what we know as "Communist Russia" and "Communist China" are not communist societies by any means. They are socialist societies, which are characterized by the government owning everything and allocating things to people according to its own design. Communist states by definition have no government at all. Look it up, that is literally part of the definition of the term. Communism is characterized by the people owning everything. Just like the government owns everything in a socialistic model and allocates resources according to its own prerogative, the people allocate resources however the people decide in a communistic model. There is nothing intrinsically wrong with communism. No society in the history of the world has ever successfully implemented communism, so it doesn't make sense to judge communism by the failures of this or that society.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
I've heard this before. Also, in Sacred Economics, there is no ownership. The worlds resources belong to us all. It is based on sharing. We use common sense. If you are living in a house, that house is yours until you decide to to leave. Then the house is open for another person to move in. Who owns the house? Nobody. We all own everything together and we respect each others possessions. If some guy has a TV, I cannot just go take it because we all share. The TV owner would have to donate it once he's done with it and I can ask him to donate it to me since I need it. He probably would unless someone else reserved it first. This is a hardcore recycling system that would save us immense amounts of resources in the future.
1 Autocoprophage 2016-12-21
well, the system you're talking about I would say qualifies as one possible implementation of communism out of many different kinds of implementations. And just to be clear I think that's totally cool, it's just a fucking buzz word, there's nothing wrong with it. Worth noting though, Karl Marx apparently believed that a radical psychological evolution would need to be undergone by every single person in order for a communistic model to be able to be successfully implemented in the real world, and I totally agree with that. Human beings in large part simply are not ready, and even to this day it would take radical perspective shifting for people to be ready. He also believed the only case where it would be possible to install a communistic system was the case where the system was worldwide, that is, whole world communism. Just something to think about as these ideas churn around in your head
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
I also don't know how well real communism would work but I do know it uses money and that ruins everything. The gov sees all that money its supposed to distribute, and then pockets it so the whole thing goes haywire.
I think every single system should have its own name as each one has its own features. SE has unique features and so does capitalism, communism, socialism, ect..
1 Autocoprophage 2016-12-21
Using money could be one method of implementing communism, while exchanging gifts or favors in a system like Sacred Economics could be another. The Apostles and the early Christian Church are said to have all sold their belongings and put the money they received into a common pool, where it was distributed according to the needs of each individual. This is another example of a communistic system. Fundamentally, paper money is no different from any other asset, all assets are essentially just work credits and making a purchase with money is no different from exchanging credits or favors. Each of these systems may vary in their specifics but the core mechanic of all assets being commonly owned by the community is the same, and that core mechanic is what classifies a system as communistic. I agree that it may be useful to further classify each of these systems by its own unique name though, there's nothing wrong with that.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
There will not be any centralized distribution of goods based of the people's needs because nobody knows what people need. Therefore, the people will go to the store anytime they need to and pick up goods there. Eventually we will rearrange our goods program. Store managers order goods on low stock items and people pick them up. Just like EBay, the buyer and merchant can post feedback on each other. Most feedback is positive but if someone comes into my store and tries to take too many things, I can check his feedback score to see if he has done this elsewhere. The thing is we can talk about potential problems forever but in truth, he best bet is to approach them as they come in.
1 SnarkyMcFartBlast 2016-12-21
Check your definition of Socialism there bud. You have it backwards.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production;[10] as well as the political ideologies, theories, and movements that aim at their establishment.[11] Social ownership may refer to forms of public, collective, or cooperative ownership; to citizen ownership of equity; or to any combination of these.[12] Although there are many varieties of socialism and there is no single definition encapsulating all of them,[13] social ownership is the common element shared by its various forms.[5][14][15]
1 thereddespair 2016-12-21
Has this model been tried and tested in a small nation atleast, did it work?
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
It's brand new so no. Iceland may do it in the near future.
1 ShikadiSoda 2016-12-21
Problem is, you'll have 300 people lined up for that job at the corner liquor store and no one willing to be the guy who cleans the sewer.
1 hack_it_ 2016-12-21
This is the blueprint of a cult.
One piece of land.. check
Give up all your possesions... check
Dont keep your money... check
Suffer your way to prosperity... check
We need a way to store our efforts, our labor, safely. This can be with points, sea shells, something that we all concur has "value." Or a form of money. If i choose to eat soup and crackers, and you choose to eat steak and lobster, you need to spend more money than myself. Does this make sense?
2 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
Your not giving up anything. You have to bear in mind that we have oceans of resource reserves and technology being held back from us. Once the flood gates open, there is plenty for all. Instead of having to afford it, you get it for free. We share everything therefore we all have more.
1 Spiral_out12 2016-12-21
Umm is there a tldr for the tldr?? Da fuk man
1 CivilianConsumer 2016-12-21
Ahh to be an idealistic college freshman...
2 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
Ah so close. Masters in psychology.
1 CivilianConsumer 2016-12-21
well that successfully psyched me out so congrats :)
1 Blunt4words20 2016-12-21
Where can we go to start this im in.
1 terik99 2016-12-21
You might want to educate yourself on the ultra idealistic transcendental societies of early America. People have tried this kind of stuff before
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
All the variables of early America are very different than the variables of today's society. These variables make all the difference and they are at least trillions of variables at play.
1 evanthepineapple 2016-12-21
Or just buy bitcoins.
1 loveforyouandme 2016-12-21
A better idea than mandating behavior from people: use alternative currency.
r/btc r/monero r/ethereum
I believe all interactions should be voluntary.
-2 secret_asian_men 2016-12-21
Lol this is communism. It is unrealistic and any social-economically educated person can tell you within 10 mins that this will shackle you and literally make you into a slave rather than freeing you.
2 iambingalls 2016-12-21
Fuck off, ruling class.
0 secret_asian_men 2016-12-21
Lol I'm not the ruling class, just someone who studies them. I have nothing to gain to come here and post bullshit. But you have to understand the dualistic nature of our reality. Money is both a slaving mechanism as well as a freeing one. Ask any wealthy person, they are free because of their money, just like any how any impoverished person is enslaved due to the nature of them not having money.
The funny thing about communism is that it takes away the freedom giving nature without also taking away the slavering nature of money. In the scenario above you are still enslaved by society, dependent on it for resources, but without at least the potential to gain your freedom through capital accumulation.
I also wish for a better world, but this is not a better system.
2 iambingalls 2016-12-21
Money isn't freeing. Even as you think you're freed by it, you're only 'free' within one ideological mindset. The only people who are free under capitalism are the people that control the money supply. Hoarding money and having a lot of it doesn't free you, it only enslaves you more, as ideologically you are still bound to worship it fetishistically. I don't think OPs solution is great, but money only enslaves. It only frees you if you live in a society that is enslaved by the idea of money. OP is trying to look beyond that tiny ideological box.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
Communism is forced labor. This is a volunteer labor force. Also, communism uses money. The government harvests the money, keeps a large chunk, and distributes the rest.
Sacred Economics is based totally on a massive volunteer force so free will is not hindered one bit. This is important. Also, there is no money exchanged every like there is in communism. Communism is just as corrupted as capitalism and the government pockets a lot of money and spends it to expand their power. SE doesn't use money at all so it is much, much more difficult to dupe the population or to enslave them.
0 secret_asian_men 2016-12-21
Communism is based on the idea that resources (means of production just leads to more resources) are shared equally based on need irregardless of other factors. Money is just a means of efficiently allocating resources based on whatever criteria you deem most important.
Sacred economics solves none of the problems of communism that prevents it from working in the real world. Some of the problems SE shares with communism includes:
Unless some hard numbers and concepts are worked out SE fate will be the same as communism; as an intellectual curiosity rather than a practical policy.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
You have to remember, these are 2 totally different systems. The human mind is the most important component in any system. I have relatives from communist countries. The problem in communist countries is that people are doing forced labor in jobs they don't even know much about. This is a huge problem. Nobody wants to be forced into anything and therefore motivation drops. They are also held at "gunpoint" because if they don't work, then the government will throw them in prison. This totally demotivates the population. SE is a pure volunteer force meaning there is no fear to work or not work. That in itself helps. (see psychology article on children not enjoying their favorite toy when being paid to play with it like a job. The children lose interest once money is involved). The idea is to maintain absolute freedom for the human to choose his fate.
Also, what they do in Communist countries is steal all the money. I have no idea how much people would get if money was equally divided but it never was. A large portion of the money is pocketed by the elite so the people would get about $1 a day. A good dinner in a communist country is about $1.50 and a bus ticket is about the same. It's a total disaster.
These problems you listed (scarcity, allocating resources) is all done by us. We allocate the resources as needed through constant communication like we are doing now. We also teach the people to use what they need and not hoard since hoarding is not really necessary. It's a big game just like business. We have to keep hustling and figuring it out like 2 partners who open up a new business. People don't throw in the towel before opening the business. Sacred Economics is just as novel as opening up a new business. Obviously we will run into interesting problems that will be a lot of fun to solve because as we solve them, all of our lives improve since quality of life improves.
Finally, keep in mind the elite are hoarding all the wealth, resources, and technology. Once that enters into main stream society, life will be a whole lot easier.
Comparing SE to the failed communist structure does us no good because they are 2 totally different systems in 2 totally different times. For example, we have the internet now and can operate a more efficient society due to our ability to communicate on a massive scale and discuss issues online.
1 FeverishlyYellow 2016-12-21
Everyone is starting to wake up and realize we live amongst evil, and on this planet will never know true freedom. Earth is the source of lucifers soul, his prison. So long as we are here, we will never truely be free. Listen to your soul and spirit, tell no lies to yourself and you will be free. Take back control, stop worrying, and enjoy being human until your time is up. Interact amongst good souls and help those who are unsure. Spread the light and come out of hiding in this false darkness. Have a wonderful day, good vibes my brothers and sisters.
2 secret_asian_men 2016-12-21
This has nothing to do with SE and what I said?
2 Jobexi 2016-12-21
Those who are interested in a non-monetary society simply take the "Your money's no good here", approach. Someone wants to be greedy? Okay. You can want to be greedy, but we don't want to fuel your greed. You want to take over by implementing a system of control where some have and others have not? No thanks, we've had that model for a few thousand years: It's time to move on.
Once we have a non-monetary economy, making sure we don't go back is a simple as refusing to participate in something that tries to go back.
2 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
I tell you, punishment is a total fail. Punishment is something a primitive species does and we are primitive but I think we will grow out of this hopefully in my lifetime. The problem with punishment is that once the intimidating policeman is removed from the situation, the criminal continues to commit crime.
In reality, belief causes behavior. If a criminal believes his only way to make money is crime, then he will commit crime when the cops aren't looking. We can punish him all we want but until his belief changes, the crime goes on. If we fixed this world so that money isn't a huge issue like it is now, the criminal will believe that he can live in decency without having to commit crime.
Using this model, we need to educate the people who refuse to work because they have a right now to. This is true. It is up to free will but why would someone refuse to work? There are many reasons. We need to dig into each others minds and understand each other. We need to teach each other how important and honorable work is. We need to teach each other how rewarding work is especially when one is following their own passion. We need to motivate each other by counseling each other through our family and neighborhood units. We have to help each other instead of selfishly worrying about ourselves. You can't even blame people for being selfish because they believe they only have enough power to take care of themselves with the low wages they dish out nowadays.
We would need meetings to exchange ideas and work through problems just like a massive business. Nobody is at the top. Everyone is equal but the wiser ones of any particular field should be managers to guide the others although the manager and employee are exactly equal.
A few bad apples are no big deal but we will try to keep unemployment down as much as possible. There is always something to do. There is always a job opening. The more people who work the better. It is also very important to teach people to worry about their own mind first before waiting for others. People have to go out and work even if others don't so that these, more mature types, can set an example for others.
1 Autocoprophage 2016-12-21
well, the system you're talking about I would say qualifies as one possible implementation of communism out of many different kinds of implementations. And just to be clear I think that's totally cool, it's just a fucking buzz word, there's nothing wrong with it. Worth noting though, Karl Marx apparently believed that a radical psychological evolution would need to be undergone by every single person in order for a communistic model to be able to be successfully implemented in the real world, and I totally agree with that. Human beings in large part simply are not ready, and even to this day it would take radical perspective shifting for people to be ready. He also believed the only case where it would be possible to install a communistic system was the case where the system was worldwide, that is, whole world communism. Just something to think about as these ideas churn around in your head
1 GoodolBen 2016-12-21
Indoctrination is the only way that comes to mind, and I don't see it not turning into a totalitarian state.
1 LightBringerFlex 2016-12-21
It would be wise to have research groups study on social systems that can be operated by society to govern itself instead of corrupt politicians telling us what to do. This is our downfall.