Russian Hackers Totally Debunked: https://vid.me/IlLp

LOL... the report really has a disclaimer that says they don't warranty the truth lol lol lol

IKR like WTF seriously?!?! Ha ha

How about we all just keep an open mind rather than blindly listening to what anonymous people on the internet tell us? He MAY be a Russian puppet, or he MAY NOT. Do not allow yourself to be 100% convinced either way yet...let's wait until all the facts are in.

it's pointless to speculate about it.

if only there was a sub that was dedicated to such type of "pointless" speculation, somewhere we can speculate about things like: democrats being missing and dead because they haven't used twitter in a couple months, or that D.C pizza places are selling child sex slaves from their basement, or if a "leaked list of clinton cabinet picks" posted on some random twitter account is legitimate, or that every shooting is an MKultra false flag, maybe even a place to speculate about how McCain is a homosexual reptilian shape shifter............

IF ONLY we had a place for such non nonsensical speculation, someone should contact reddit and ask them to address this obvious void by making a dedicated sub for these types of conversations

the whole point is censorship, all those topics were complete speculation also and were left up for discussion, this one was killed by mods in a community that is suppose to despise censorship... i think it would be hard to have a "conspiracy" sub if "pointless speculation" was censored

Pssst. They don't care.

Op, I'm a Trump supporter and a long-time subscriber of this sub; in my opinion, you shouldn't have made this post.

I don't like when someone I have hope in, who I think is our "savior" is doubted because that puts doubt in my mind, but that doesn't mean we should avoid all critical discussion.

We can speculate but to declare something as true without substantial evidence is wrong, so there should be a balance.

It doesn't matter who is in power, the process and means of subjugation may change but the elites still have their goals, which don't include looking out for our best interests.

Is 'Russia' a puppet?

Only anti democrat conspiracies allowed, got it

Then why did the mods censor the article that was number one on this sub?

If it's 100% false why remove it? Isn't that how PizzaGate started?

https://www.reddit.com/r/undelete/comments/5nby2o/16168713729_reports_allege_trump_has_deep_ties_to/

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Shill

It'd be like if Buzzfeed posted an article "proving" that Reptilians exist. But the article actually gives no proof.

There are posts of the airport shooter is part of MKUltra, with zero evidence to support it, yet that stays.

its insane to think posts on conspiracy should be deleted if they have no evidence.

CIA talking to him in his skull.

Voice to Skull technology.

https://sites.google.com/site/targetedindividuals101/home/v2k

Any proof this is the case in this event?

I can make an anonymous post on 4chan saying "yep totally was that" if that helped.

that mkultra post was full of proof

problem with buzzfeeds piss is they themselves admitted it was false. so yeah delete it now.

No it wasn't, it's a fucking wiki. Not only that it speaks nothing of the airport shooter and provides nothing proving it was being used on him

Now, I repeat, do you have any proof that this is the case for the shooter?

They did? You might want to ask McCain about that. He just confirmed it was legit.

Zero evidence? His own testimony doesn't count for anything? Gotcha.

His testimony was that he was hearing voices, not that voice to skull technology was being used on him by the government

Hearing voices is common among schizophrenic and other mental illness so the mere existence of hearing voice is not direct evidence of such a technology being used

Now, I repeat, *do you have any proof that this is the case for the airport shooter? *

Voice 2 skull and mkultra are feathers of the same bird

No, they really aren't.

Care to elaborate?

MKUltra is use of chemicals to make someone angry or violent. (people say mind control but the whole thing was for spiking drinks to make a foreign politician angry and look bad)

Voice to Skull is a supposed machine/device that sends an EM that makes you hear things inside your head. But really they'd have to point it at you, unobstructed for such a concept, if it even did work.

haha, so you think posts here with zero evidence should be removed? oh man, the amount of articles that should be deleted is massive then.

yes, we should.

if it is a conspiracy, it should be allowed to be talked about on here. simple as that.

the mods should not be the ones deciding what stays and what goes, that it was the vote system is for.

I get some things need to be deleted to maintain site wide rules and such, but its very obvious the post deleted from the front page was censored.

So we're /r/EvidenceOnly now? Cool.

I remember a comment just a week ago saying the exact opposite. No evidence is needed since this is a discussion and theory subreddit. Funny how quickly that narrative changes.

Oh okay so you'll be taking your post down right, because you have absolutely no evidence to support any of your claims?

Right but where's your evidence backing up your claims that

NO, Trump is not a Russian puppet. NO, Russia didn't hack the elections. NO, Wikileaks is not a Russian front organization. Stop falling for the manufactured "Evil Russia" narrative!

Because you made statement and provided zero evidence to back it up. So again, are you taking down your post because you've made claims while providing no evidence of your own.

Look at my evidence: No evidence

Actually, what you replied to me earlier was:

Fair enough. I should've titled the post like this.

"No, there is no evidence Trump is a Russian puppet. No, there is no evidence Russia hacked the elections. No, there is no evidence Wikileaks is a Russian front."

That would've been a true statement.

Why did they remove it?

Tell me again why we should trust BuzzFeed, CNN, CBS, and all those other garbage media sites that clearly have a narrative.

Because censorship? I thought /r/conspiracy was against being censored.

Mods just correcting the recording against fake news. I thought this sub was against that.

Actually, yeah. Picking and choosing which posts with no proof stay and which go is the definition of censorship. There's hundreds of posts a week upvoted, while offering zero proof of the claim they're making

Welcome to /r/ConfirmedConspiracy

I support censoring misleading garbage.

When a credible source is given and not the mainstream media, who have been proven to shill fake news 24/7, then I will consider it, of course.

Did you hear recently?

CBS twisted the 4 black thugs/disabled white man attack to make it look as if 4 white trump supporters attacked a disabled black man.

The audio is on YouTube. Disgusting trash.

Aren't you just encouraging the Streisand effect by doing that? I'm here in this sub because I got linked to /r/conspiracy from the politics megathread yesterday and watched the whole thing unfold. I've read the sub a few times in the past but never actively participated until today.

It seems to me it's intellectually dishonest to be against allowing whatever evidence is available to be debated on its own merits.

How are you going to debate fake news? It's there to make you misinformed.

If you really want to be part of the community, you debate real news and evidence. Not what some low level reporter wants to tell you.

Censoring anything by definition means you can't debate it. No one is given the opportunity to refute the claims presented. Why are you or anyone else the Arbiter of what is worthy of debate?

If you have concerns with the way fake news is handled, talk to the mods. I support one side of the argument, willing to listen to both sides, but I don't support fake news either.

Right but how are you determining this news is fake as compared to anything else in this subreddit?

Because it's from BuzzFeed.

The Washington Post recently published an article calling out the BuzzFeed reporter on his lies.

If you don't believe that happened, Google it.

No, that's not how it works. McCain has confirmed he provides this. The POTUS and PEOTUS have both been briefed on it. What exactly is fake?

Oh but Infowars doesn't have a "narrative"? The r/conspiracy front page is full of "garbage media sites" all the time with their own "narratives"...but you're okay with them as long as they support YOUR narrative.

Lol. I don't care for InfoWars. I don't care for any of the supposed "news" outlets.

Yeah, but the point still stands that we see a bunch of these bullshit sources make it to the top of r/conspiracy all the time without being tagged "Unverified" or completely removed/censored from the front page. This is the first time I've seen such blatant censorship on this subreddit, and it's pretty obvious as to the reasons WHY it was censored. Just look at the front page now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/how-buzzfeed-crossed-the-line-in-publishing-salacious-dossier-on-trump/2017/01/11/957b59f6-d801-11e6-9a36-1d296534b31e_story.html?tid=sm_fb&utm_term=.fb035c5c0889

I'm not saying I agree with what Buzzfeed did or even like Buzzfeed (I've never liked Buzzfeed). But, again, the discussion is about WHY r/conspiracy feels the need to censor SOME shitty/unverifiable sources of information and not OTHER shitty/unverifiable sources of information.

I've seen so much insane, unverifiable bullshit on this sub for the past few months and they didn't have a problem with ANY of it. There were multiple threads accusing the Podesta brothers of kidnapping McCann, there was another thread accusing Clinton of being a cannibal...all kinds of essentially tabloid nonsense flooding this sub. So why did they have to censor the first time an anti-Trump article reaches the top of the subreddit?

Well, you see, the thing is that the threads accusing people of doing something is all speculation and opinions. If they violate any rules, they're removed. If they don't, they stay. The BuzzFeed article was a news article designed to reach mass media for millions to read and become misinformed.

If you see spam, report it.

Going back to the pizza shop owner - if he was innocent of the charges against him, why did he threaten to kill a Voat investigator's family for posting a video about Pizzagate? The guy has Facebook messages to prove it, and he has the phone number too.

hmmmmmmmmm

what's that gif of biden doing at the top of the sub?

Here's a leaked intelligence report that supports the 'Trump Russian puppet' conspiracy, now show me something as concrete for a 'true' conspiracy like Pizzagate.

The same claims were made about Pizzagate being fabricated by 4chan, and yet this sub ran with that? Why is your pro-trump agenda allowed, but anti-trump conspiracies shouldn't be?

Pro-Trump? I hate Trump.

NO, Trump is not a Russian puppet. NO, Russia didn't hack the elections. NO, Wikileaks is not a Russian front organization. Stop falling for the manufactured "Evil Russia" narrative!

So you're just a pro-Russian shill?

Exactly i don't like Trump either, but these guys are trying to make us like Hillary by denouncing Trump even after she lost.

because anti trump conspiracies coming out of the CIA are conspiracies in themselves

You're right, we should use YouTube videos with shitty editing effects

you're gonna have to give them a min, they are trying to selectively smash all their "evidence" together on one jpeg, mark it up with red arrows and circles to direct your attention where they want it, and double check there are no complete links just in case you're one of those pesky "free thinkers" that likes to fact check things yourself

these things take time ya know

I have to admit, some of those jpeg'ers have some solid MS Paint skills.

With evidence? Most of the stuff here don't even have a shred of it.

People point out bullshit all the time, but the mods leave everything despite it.

Suddenly it's against Trump and it isn't allowed here. The mods censor it by somehow becoming the judges of conspiracies.

You don't see the bullshit to call on that?

yeah, yesterday made it very obvious where the mods of conspiracy sit.

Mods leave flat earth posts up but take down anti-Trump theories. There's a clear bias here.

Learn how to read, kid.

Lets talk about 9/11

no bush did that and he's not a democrat, can't talk about it

What? There's plenty of 9/11 stuff in this sub. It just doesn't get upvoted so much since there is not much to add to the conversation anymore.

there has been plenty of pro left talking points on here. Just no pro neoliberal ones.

Before the election sure

JET FUEL CANT MELT STEAL BEAMS, NOVA

GEORGE BUSH AND JOHN KERRY WERE IN SKULL AND BONES AT THE SAME TIME, NOVA

DONALD RUMSFELD WAS ALLEN DULLES PROTEGE, NOVA

THERE WERE NO WMDS IN IRAQ, NOVA

Now you can't say there are no conspiracies on the right being discussed here.

You kinda just proved the comment you were replying to correct

Da comrade. Support Mr. Trumpski like good Americans.

FSB does nothing bad. Never attack West. Do not trust American media. Do not trust American government. Only trust Mr. Trumpski and the Russian government.

Be a good little boy.

Some actual effort would be nice.

This sub should remain apolitical and leave it up for the user base to decide what is attention worthy. Stop telling me what to upvote and downvotes. Post your counter arguments in the comments of the respected articles, and people can do the critical thinking themselves.

This should be included in the sidebar.

Agree! This sub should remain apolitical and for conspiracy theories only!

But it opens a bad can of worms because many conspiracy theories are politically related.

What happens when there's a massive DNC conspiracy? "Wow this place is literally the Donald"

What about a massive RNC conspiracy? "Wow this place is CTR heaven"

But reporting no politically-based conspiracies isn't right either!

There is a fine line to walk.

I think that the ''conspiracies'' that are political, are nothing more than dirt and propaganda.

Not conspiracy ''Putin hacked the U.S. elections''

Conspiracy ''Putin and Trump hacked together the elections''

If it is just the bitching of one political force at another, it is not conspiracy, because duh, one clan wants the other out. But it is a conspiracy when two seemingly hostile to each other clans, are working together to maintain our slave status.

Wouldn't Putin hacking or influencing the U.S. elections be considered a conspiracy? A conspiracy to undermine the U.S. election process. Especially considering there hasn't been any definitive proof presented yet makes it even more of a conspiracy.

Nope, because he is a political power that has to gain from it anyway. It is no conspiracy that one political power wants to finish the other

You have congress coming out about the CIA manipulating over 80 countries' elections since WW2, not including coups and regime changes. This is readily available. The same time we were accusing russia of hacking our elections, israel has been accusing the US of manipulating their elections. So we're either enormous hypocrites, or everyone is spreading bullshit about everyone. Divide and conquer is working quite well, too many people buying into everything the mainstream media is selling.

Most of them are but not all...

See: the DNC leaks that are cryptographically verified

Conspiracy would be if all of those who have something to do or know about space, would know that the earth is flat, but say the opposite. DNC leaks is just the dirty work of the U.S. national elite

Rnc is called gop just an fyi

My mistake.

It shouldn't matter if a conspiracy is politically motivated. There's no problem with someone examining the possibility, of Trump being with the Russians, or the possibility of the media framing him. But when talking about either of these positions, we should look at evidence, not rely on our political leanings. Conspiracy exits on all sides, and conspiracy should be uncovered on all sides. These posts telling you "NO it's not Russia" with "Come on guys" provided as the reasoning sound just like what's pushed by anti-conspiracy theorist entities everyday. "Who could believe that?"; "How ridiculous"; "So everyone is lying? You really think that?" Statements like these aren't helpful to anyone. They're what this subreddit should be against regardless of political affiliation.

TL;DR Follow the evidence not the likelihood?

Pretty much. I tend to ramble when I get triggered.

It's easy to ramble, indeed.

What about when the conspiracy theory starts to become reality? What then?

It won't, the mods already deleted the pro-Trump post after flairing it with "unverified allegations" (the only time they've ever done so, and wtf we're in /r/conspiracies that's the whole basis of conspiracies). They have a clear political bias.

You clearly don't come here very often. Posts are flaired like that regularly, for posts involving both sides of the isle.

It was flaired "unverified allegations" because that's literally what it said in the article. Can't speak to the political motive of the mod that did it, but it's not like he was necessarily wrong for doing so.

I've been coming here for years and you're lying. Just do a search by that tag. Let me know the results.

The paid shills will take over... and this sub will become just like r/politics. You can't have a discussion without a ton of paid people trying to control the narrative + bot + sell out mods.

This is what you want for r/conspiracy ?

But it won't because the mods have already shown what side they are taking when they tagged the most upvoted thread on this sub with "Unverified Allegations" then "4Chan Hoax/Raid" and then proceeded to remove the post all together.

Nobody here is pissed about it because this place has become the_donald lite, which is ironic in itself, because this place was screaming when r/news was removing muslim terrorist posts. Yet when the r/conspiracy mods do it to a conspiracy about Trump and Russia, nobody says a peep. The definition of sheep and hypocrites if you ask me

Because it's fake news, you idiot.

Because it's fake news, you idiot.

I don't think you understand what fake news is. The irony of this statement is that conspiracy theories could be classified as fake news too since this sub tries to present it as fact.

You don't do words well, do you? There's nothing ironic about this bullshit story being called what it is. And if your sole point is to compare pizzagate to pissgate, that's dumb as hell. Pizzagate has at least circumstantial evidence. There is nothing connecting Trump to Russia other than MSM lies. In that way they are the exact opposite in fact. One is suppressed by MSM and one is promoted. So it's not ironic to consider the one that is being covered up and to dismiss the one that is being "exposed".

And if your sole point is to compare pizzagate to pissgate, that's dumb as hell.

No. Actually, you just proved my point, you were too dumb to even understand what I said. This sub was presenting pizzagate as a fact when its not, that is fake news, a conspiracy theory is not fake news. Presenting a conspiracy theory as a fact is. Nobody is presenting piss gate as a fact, hence why every outlet has said the exact claims are yet to be verified.

Oh, was every thread and poster in this subreddit on the pizzagate is 100% real train? I certainly wasn't. But I also don't think it's too strange, either. Hollywood has a giant pedo ring, as does the UK's elite. It wouldn't be a big surprise if America's political elite did as well.

And I guess you missed the megathread last night full of people who absolutely believed 100% that this document is the real deal.

Thanks for failing to address the most relevant point I made. Pizzagate was buried by the media; this Russia bullshit cannot be pushed any harder. Do you honestly think MSM reporting qualified for evidence? Then you are dumber than I thought. All it does is point out that the establishment is desperate to create you guessed it fake news.

And I guess you missed the megathread last night full of people who absolutely believed 100% that this document is the real deal.

Believing a document is real is different then presenting it as a fact and that all the allegations are true. It's the nuance.

Thanks for failing to address the most relevant point I made. Pizzagate was buried by the media

Maybe because you were getting the owner severely harrassed and threatened by a guy with a gun over a conspiracy.

this Russia bullshit cannot be pushed any harder.

So everyones lying then, Russia had no hand in our elections or Trump at all even though all leads point to the fact they did. Fine.

Do you honestly think MSM reporting qualified for evidence? Then you are dumber than I thought. All it does is point out that the establishment is desperate to create you guessed it fake news.

Fake news would imply no proof or sources. This is the opposite with the intelligence community as well as this document being their sources and proof. Meanwhile, they aren't qualified, so who is? Breitbart? Alex. Jones?

Hahahaha this is /r/conspiracy and you are uncritically eating the shit the CIA serves you? What a useful idiot. You've conveniently forgotten the WMDs in Iraq, have you?

Hahahaha this is /r/conspiracy and you are uncritically eating the shit the CIA serves you?

Who the hell said I believe everything the CIA says. There's a point where if enough people back something up, then it's idiotic to at least not do some research for yourself and find you agree with their statement. There are 16 other intelligence agencies as well as the white house and numerous senators that agree with the sentiment that Russia was involved in our election. Yet you sit here and call me the idiot. Wheres the discussion on this? Where's the conspiracy about that? Oh right, this is r/the_donald support group, that's why that isn't discussed here.

Also. Speaking of idiots. The WMD's in Iraq were never agreed upon at all by the intelligence community and was actually highly debated at the time. This is the first time in history that the entire intelligence community has backed a unified finding. Do some research before spouting off bullshit.

Get the fuck off /r/conspiracy and go suckle at the teat of politics or news or some other garbage subreddit that caters to your lemming-like brain.

Get the fuck off /r/conspiracy and go suckle at the teat of politics or news or some other garbage subreddit that caters to your lemming-like brain.

That's nice, I was waiting for this, just didn't know at what point it would come

Buh bye, Mr. I take US senators at their word.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

lmao so believeing what the koch brothers feed you is better?

so is pizzagate. just from a different provider.

Exactly, which is why we should be condemning that artificially upvoted post

Possibly, just possibly, it was upvoted for being a potential bombshell conspiracy worthy of discussion on a subreddit that is about conspiracies. As much attention as you gave Pizzagate, a dossier being looked at by US intelligence and top government officials is where you draw the line? This subreddit is beyond absurd.

Lol this exact same comment has been posted by hundreds of shills already. I saw with my own eyes what happened. It got 300 upvotes in 1 hour. And it kept getting 100 upvotes every 10 minutes. That NEVER happens for ANYTHING in this sub. And now you want us to believe that an Anti-Trump Russian thread got upvoted naturally on /r/conspiracy?

Quick upvotes = visibility = more upvotes. The algorithm creates a snowball. The only thing at play is that this was huge news.

Didnt the mods tag the post from yesterday as unverified? (and I cant even find the post any more)

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A hoax is intentionally created to stir people up while conspiracies are wuite literally theories developed from ideas and actual or alleged happenings.

Mccain was the one who passed along the info. Pretty bad excuse to delete the post

Oh i agree with you there. Was just trying to answer your question :)

Mccain was the one who passed along the info.

And?

And it turned out they already had it from several sources

The idea that the dossier was a "4chan hoax" is in itself a hoax. The idea is based on 2 vague posts on /pol/ which don't actually go into any details - just that someone emailed someone something (and he refused to tell us what was in that email). There's also misinformation floating around about what's in the dossier, I've seen many people believe that there was something in there about "obama sex dolls" and "hentai" and yet neither or those things are mentioned at all in the dossier.

While I am skeptical of the dossier itself, this "4chan hoax" hoax and misinformation itself shows us there is a big effort to discredit it, which should raise some flags.

Or if you look at the document you'd laugh and realize it has 4chan written all over it. Each point is given the same level of credibility..including Trump making speeches to himself in the bathroom lmfao.

This is exactly what I mean by misinformation. Where in the dossier does it say anything about Trump making speeches to himself in the bathroom? Have you even opened the document?

https://i.sli.mg/gKKP0P.png

Are you fucking kidding me? There isn't even a point "22" in the entire fucking dossier. It would take you literally 5 seconds to verify this if you've even opened the source. All your information about what's in the dossier is fake.

NO SIR! YOU are out of order!

How am I out of order? Because I realized you'd believe anything was in the dossier as long as I printed it out and highlighted it?

theyre out of order cause you fell for someone spreading around a fake dossier and not even fact checking it yourself?

ahahahaha you fucking idiot

All we did at 4 chan was pizzagate. The Trump dossier is real

And whats the difference between a hoax and a conspiracy?

The difference is that a hoax has been verified fake and a conspiracy is still plausible.

A conspiracy is a thing. A conspiracy itself is not inherently fake or unproven. People are convicted of conspiracy all the time.

IMO /u/KurtSTi meant a conspiracy theory, which fits within the context of the thread.

The difference is that a hoax has been verified fake and a conspiracy theory is still plausible.

Having the above edit makes sense to me.

^{Read this post at own risk and presume this has been modified by Reddit Inc.}

they regularly tag rule 11 for unsubstantiated direct claims. in the case of that post, it was not a direct claim, but perhaps the mods saw a brigade happening.

A hoax is by definition fake. A conspiracy is a group plan to something illegal or harmful. They can be related, there can be a conspiracy to create a hoax but they are not the same thing, at all. A conspiracy THEORY is an idea that there is a conspiracy but it has not been factually proven. A conspiracy FACT is when a conspiracy has been proven to have taken place, or the culprits admit to it.

Mods are compromised. They never tag things as a hoax on here, even the craziest possible bullshit.

You can't possibly expect an apolitical sub when all of past year's truths have been nothing but conspiracies in US politics.

Nobody told you what to upvote, so why even say that? The OP is extremely cringe worthy but don't be an idiot.

This post, and a lot of people in this sub turning against the Trump = Russian Puppet narrative isn't about partisanship. It's about the conspiracy. Yes it would be a hefty conspiracy theory ifit turned out to be true but it's still, like so many other things, the media pushing unsubstantiated garbage. So there's also the theory that it's a conspiracy against Trump and each side has complete validity within this sub. Stop trying to write it off as partisan.

No because you have to see when the mainstream media is pushing something heavily, recognize the propaganda, and counter it here. You can't give equal weight to their narrative.

Finally. Thank you

Can I just point out there is an ex-MI6 agent who leaked these documents that is currently on the run because he thinks the Kremlin is going to murder him?

This is what this sub is for! http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/11/former-mi6-officer-produced-donald-trump-russian-dossier-terrified/

Nah dude. This sub used to be for that. Now it's a Trump/Russia shill factory.

Yep, thats what we do here, dont worry

Wish the mods would do something about it but its obvious they are trump supporters, how else could a picture of obama with the animaladvice background reach the top and stay there even though it had nothing to do with conspiracies. Or Joe Biden whispering into a kids ear.

This sub is so open minded when it comes to looking for codes in emails and coming up with some explosive conclusion but as soon as it's anti-Trump it's "shut this down, nothing to see here"

I don't think it's quite that simple. There has been quite a bit of discussion in this sub criticizing Trump's cabinet picks and his attitudes regarding Israel.

The reason this sub keeps attacking the Russia/Trump posts is because they've repeatedly been exposed as bullshit propaganda. When one fake story fails, they come up with another (Russia hacked the election, Russia hacked the power grid, Russia has incriminating evidence that Trump likes piss).

This sub saw a very clear agenda by the media to sway the election in Hillary's favor, and now that she lost, there's similarly a very clear agenda to sabotage Trump's presidency. Regardless of your opinions on Trump, these people are openly weakening and destroying our country. We're tired of their stupid games and false narratives

The reason this sub keeps attacking the Russia/Trump posts is because they've repeatedly been exposed as bullshit propaganda.

Everything is propaganda.

I don't care about piss. I care about sweetheart land & resource deals, quid pro quo, Carter Page's empty resume, etc.

if that's proven lets see it but if the same sources are saying piss stuff, we'll assume it's false.

Everything is propaganda.
That is quite the claim. How do you figure?

Don't underestimate our adversary.

Reality has been a plaything for the money power since the Industrial Age, and their dominion over reality has only grown more complete. They are at least a century into operations extending their control beyond reality: over Perception.

We are in the Post-Truth Era. Lies are more powerful than truth, because you can create a new lie by fiat, but there is only a finite amount of truth which can be told.

This is why everyone seems biased: in the Post-Truth Era, neither speaker nor listener deals in the truth, but rather emotion. Mass Media exploits biology, which dictates that one may forget the specifics of the truth, but emotional connections persist in the brain far longer.

This is not esoteric knowledge, but the full context is.

Thank you for saying what ive been thinking, This is exactly what's happening. They have gone from putting a slave collar on your neck to one on your mind

These are uncertain times. Confusion & discord are of little concern for those whose money insulates.

great post. everything going on right now is textbook gaslighting.

Thank you for elaborating on that thought.

Unfortunately, opening minds is only step one. I don't know what step two is, because I keep coming back to the Day of the Rope.

Post-Truth Era.

Huh. Everybody was warning how that was the next buzzword, and there it is.

I wouldn't dismiss it as merely a buzzword, since we are witnesses to exactly what tbe term encompasses.

Nah, my opinion is that it's the same as it's ever been. I'm an old fart, and a history buff. This "era" isn't any different than any other. Truth and lies both exist.

Unless you're over 100, I don't think you're disagreeing with me.

So truth died in 1916? Interesting theory.

Not exactly. Post-truth doesn't imply there is nothing true, just that truth has been devalued as a currency, in favor of lies which serve a goal. Truth had always been manipulated for agendas, but now lies serve the same purpose.

Lies didn't serve that purpose before ~1916? It was different in 1861? It was different in 1776? 1066? If lies didn't serve the purpose of manipulating agendas back then, what purpose did they serve? Bedtime stories?

The difference is that mass media enables broad dissemination of lies to millions. The Catholic Church had the only game in town for a while; moveable type changed that for a while until radio changed the game completely.

And those same attributes don't apply to facts/truth? (They do)

You probably should have just led with the JP Morgan stuff and left off the new buzzword...

I'm comfortable with the way I put it. If you're going to ignore what's happening, what has already happened, and dismiss the scope, reach and ubiquity of the lie machine, that's your prerogative.

A 21 day old account is going to accuse me, a 4 yr regular, of dismissing the scope of the lie machine...

No champ. We were warned ahead of time about the lie machine using the "Post-Fact" buzzword. And here you are.

And here you are, ignoring the reality about which they warned you. It doesn't seem, to me, that you comprehend what is meant by Post-Truth. Read that article, and explain your position further.

If you choose not to, or choose to deflect or dissemble, then as Stanley Leiber says, 'Excelsior'.

Oh yeah, that's a GREAT article, complete with how "post-truth" is used to vilify Brexit.

It's a buzzword. You wear it like a badge, and it tells me all I need to know about you.

You don't like a word.

You don't like people using it.

You're comfortable putting me in a box because of it.

Excelsior.

No, I'm comfortable putting you in a box because you're a 21 day old "verified email" Anti-Trump account carpet bombing /r/conspiracy

The "post-fact" buzzword was just the red flag that we were warned about by CTR anon to come after "fake news" fails. But we're not done turning "fake news" against the machine. We'll usurp "post-fact" when we're good and ready.

Oh, I see. You've already made up your mind.

It's almost amusing that you're plugging your ears and using emotional appeals to argue that Post-Truth isn't upon us.

I almost want to extract more of what you're thinking out of you, but I'll just put you in a box with the other people who argue without listening, just as Post-Truth indicates will become the norm.

All art is propaganda.

Don't underestimate our adversary.

Who is our "adversary?"

Oh so what are your feelings on the Uranium One deal?

Smells awfully bad, but please remember that thousands of people are involved in these deals, and Congress can still reject them.

So, The Powers That Be said "Jump" and everyone in the chain of approvals jumped.

I have no clue how you got a negative karma with that one.

Thanks for pointing it out. I just edited my original comment to address it

This sub is being shilled hard right now

I usually cringe when people say that. I'm not right now. The votes are a clear indicator that something has changed.

What evidence do you have that "the Russia/Trump posts is because they've repeatedly been exposed as bullshit propaganda"? Senator John McCain disagrees with your thesis.

You realize every person claiming this nonsense is true is getting their info from the same source right? The document they are citing is literally made up. If you have a shred of critical thinking and also read the reporting surrounding the document that is the single source then you should not beleive it. Calling out bullshit isn't the same as supporting Russia, queue the "fuck you comrade" replies.

The Guardian has not said whether it is made up or not. I think we will have to wait and see if the "The document they are citing is literally made up".

Yeah let's just wait for the MSM to tell us what to think.

Established longtime corrupt politician says something, must be true! /s

Sorry, but John McCain can go fuck himself.

As for the Russia/Trump connections being exposed as bullshit propaganda, just look for any evidence that it ISN'T bullshit. What do you find? Government officials telling you, "trust us, it's true... but we can't tell you why, how, or what we exactly know."

Well, government corruption is illegal. If McCain did something corrupt, there would be a line of prosecutors waiting to prosecute him. So, your'e telling me that Government officials with public reputations are not to be believed. But, some dumb anonymous twit on Reddit (yes, you DontTreadOnMe16) is to be believed?

Well, government corruption is illegal. If McCain did something corrupt, there would be a line of prosecutors waiting to prosecute him.

Come on bro, that's not serious right? Just ask Hillary how government corruption is handled in DC.

Also, no where in my post did I ever say "Listen to me! I have all the answers!" I said for you to look for any of the evidence yourself. Just trusting me would be as foolish as just trusting any information you hear to be true. If you are legitimately interested in truth, then you must put in the effort to verify any information you are told.

Here is a list of US politicians convicted of corruption. Ask them how corruption is handled in DC. If you are going to throw out a statement, like you have, you should be willing to back it up with some facts. Otherwise, I will call you a fool.

Which is why I originally said "established longtime" politician. The lower on the totem pole you are, the more expendable you are. The ones that get busted for corruption are the lower level peons. Very rarely do high level politicians get hit with corruption charges (charges that actually stick, anyway).

Those big name politicians you've been hearing about on CNN and CSPAN for the last two decades? Yea, they aren't going down for anything less than video evidence of them murdering someone on the steps of the Capital.

There are quite a few people that should be in prison that walk free. You cant trust TPTB.

"there would be a line of prosecutors waiting to prosecute him"

That's adorably optimistic.

I was mainly referring to the claims about Russia hacking the election and our energy grid as nothing more than propaganda. I don't know how closely you've been following these issues, but I'm willing to provide evidence for my claims if you're unfamiliar with these stories.

The Russian/Trump accusations that came out last night are newer, and I'm not willing to make any blanket statements until more facts come to light. However, certain details in the report have already been shown to be false, which makes me question the validity of everything else.

What the fuck? Just the fact that it's being pushed by a crook like McCain is nearly proof enough that it's bullshit. You must be new here.

McCain is a cunt.

Oh really, what do you do with your life News_Bot, besides sit at a computer terminal and right about people you don't know much about. Here is the story of John McCain in captivity. I think this is enough to prove he is no cunt. Why don't you tell us why you think you are not a cunt?

A person can be held in captivity and still do cunty things.

Not being a sycophant. Just wondering what you did during your mid to late 20's while McCain was representing the best of America. Being a role model and making Americans proud. What did you do? Just curious.

Lame argument. What I do doesn't matter one bit. Quit deflecting.

Your point is well made and quite understood by this Redditor. Now let's move beyond your point and ask the question, you seem to enjoy the benefits of an imperialist state which has waged a war of aggression based on lies. Do you do anything to support this country which allows you to sit on your fat behind in front of a terminal and pontificate about a philosophy that you assume has some root in reality?

You have no argument, I see. You seem to be against the ideas of criticism and free speech on the basis of some warped ideal of a meritocratic system of discourse. I don't need to have been an armed muscleman for banks and big business to be fully able to state that McCain is a dipshit. Your underhanded and devious attempts to undermine my point through poisoning the well won't change reality no matter what little blind "patriotic" narratives you spew.

I am not attempting to undermine your point. Quite the contrary, I accept your point, being a war hero does not excuse being an elected official and supporting war mongering. But, let's move beyond the point and look into what makes News-Bot and educated purveyor of philosophy.

I don't see the need to divulge my personal life to a stranger on the Internet.

Oh, I'm no stranger. Look over you left shoulder........

2spooky

Just having a laugh on a boring Thursday at work.

repeatedly been exposed as bullshit propaganda

And these are the 'shills' everyone is talking about. User for 4 months telling everyone that anything against Trump is clearly fake and quickly shifts his narrative from that to Anti-Hillary.

Pro Trump... Check

Anti Hillary... Check

To the top with you! /s

If you read through my post history, you'll see that I'm very agnostic about Trump. I didn't vote for him, and I'm concerned about some of his picks and actions. However, I'm willing to give the guy a few months in office so that I can make a more informed decision on what his administration will actually be like. I'm definitely anti-Hillary, though. You at least got that part right.

And snarky comments like this are what is dividing this community and ruining the sub. You try to call me out on my account only being 4 months old when yours is just seven months, and I'm much more active on this sub than you.

projection from the right is a huge issue.

YOU HAVE CTR ASTROTURFING - Donald has the Russian Gov. astroturfing for him

YOU HAVE A CROOKED FOUNDATION HILLARY - has a foundation that doesn't even donate money and is used as a money laundering front and a way to pay people off.

THE DNC IS CROOKED - RNC was hacked and Russians hid these details to blackmail the entire GOP with whatever they uncovered.

RIP to America I guess

This sub saw a very clear agenda by the media to sway the election in Hillary's favor, and now that she lost, there's similarly a very clear agenda to sabotage Trump's presidency. Regardless of your opinions on Trump, these people are openly weakening and destroying our country. We're tired of their stupid games and false narratives

There was just as clear an agenda by wikileaks to sway the election in trump's favor, but the difference is that that influence came from a foreign power whose interests differ significantly from the US's. There's a much stronger argument to be made that that influence is "openly weakening and destroying our country"

The only thing Wikileaks did was provide information which allowed the American people to make a more informed decision. It's not Wikileaks fault that the DNC and Hillary's campaign staff were involved in unethical behavior. Similarly, I don't blame NBC or whomever else for revealing the "grab em by the pussy" video. Knowledge and truth is good no matter where it comes from

Stop it your being too sensible.. I'm supposed to hate you because of your opinion, likewise you are supposed to hate me for my opinion.

That was the government can avoid being hated. Kay pal?

The only thing Wikileaks did was provide information which allowed the American people to make a more informed decision.

They provided emails almost entirely from one side of the contest and they showed virtually nothing other than that sausage making is not pretty.

The timing of the releases and the fact that they were only against the democratic candidate/party were pretty damn fishy, there's plenty of dirt to be had with both Trump and the RNC, but none of that got leaked. The complete one-sidedness of wikileaks during the last election has made me loos all faith in their credibility. As far as I'm concerned, they've been co-opted by russian intelligence, we might as well listen to KGB reports.

Hardly unethical behavior at the DNC though. The Russian sourced propaganda took small detail and made it seem like it was a massive. This has been part of their psy-ops campaign for decades. We have aLL been absorbing Russian right-wing propaganda for decades.

When we're hearing more evidence by the day that The president elect is a puppet because of blackmail. Obama would have NEVER put himself in a position to get blackmail.

Knowledge and truth is good no matter where it comes from? Only when its convenient to your agenda sure. What you said is so obviously false and unobjective, its not even funny. No, specific knowledge being revealed by a foreign element to turn the tide of an election to benefit themselves is not good. Its terrifying.

I stand by what I said. Knowledge and truth are always good. I don't see how that's controversial or hard to grasp

Simple. A lie by ommision is still a lie and not objective truth. If the truth is revealed in a context of an outside foreign force to directly effect the election process of another country, it is very much NOT GOOD. This is basic sense. If it was all knowledge and truth, sure. But given the context, it is incredibly bad, and terrifying on behalf of our country that another country can, at a whim, hack us, and choose what to release to manipulate our electoral process in their favor.

Months ago, around the time your account was created btw, this sub saw a very clear agenda by The_Donald to sway the narrative in Trump's favor using the same high-energy tactics they employed in their own sub. Suddenly anything Pro-Trump was at the top, and anything Anti-Trump was downvoted into obscurity. Same with Pizzagate.

Look at what happened last night. A discussion about a possible conspiracy came up. It was suspiciously given the tag of "Unverified Allegations" (In a sub dedicated to almost nothing but unverified allegations). Then it vanished from the front page, and was replaced by a flood of posts calling it fake and telling users to "stay vigilant". This is the exact same shit The_Donald does, I've been on this sub for years and never seen the regulars talk this way or try and control the narrative of the sub like this.

That was when the calls of CTR SHILL were the loudest...lol.

Russian bots calling American users bots...it was, odd.

Meme War 2016 -- Never Forget!

Currently, this sub has the exact same targeting going on as did r/politics when it's 'record was being corrected.'

you nailed it. Trump needs to be held up to the light and criticized for valid points, but this sub doesn't need to coddle every piece of disinfo. And I said the same thing about how pizzagate was presented- and think the mods eventually did an admirable job managing rule 11 with regards to those posts. They tend to be pretty even handed and not particularly partisan.

But I'm sick of the russia putin trump official propaganda coming out of the current administration, state department, intelligence agencies and MSM- and whoever else may be behind it all. I don't completely doubt that he has russian ties, but what we are looking at is not organic conspiracy theory- this is state sponsored propaganda and should be called out for what it is.

Trump IS 'the state.' He's already been elected. Comey helped him win. Why do you think the FBI would turn on their boss at the last moment?

the deep state. not sure what was going on with comey and what the intentionality was behind that. but it's clear that the deep state (which runs the two parties- neoliberals/ neocons and coopted "tea party") is propagandizing against trump

Oh right, forgot what sub I was on.

Great post. Reason will always govern ignorance.

There isn't some pretty hefty reason to suspect that trump has ties to Russia. I've seen a lot of people on here spouting how "circumstantial evidence is used in court cases all the time to convict people." My main concern is why all the lying about not knowing Putin, never meeting him, or have any connection with him. the interview he did for years ago, clearly shows the man is a complete liar. When a man specifically lies about having contact with a powerful political figure, I begin to wonder what that man is hiding.

https://mobile.twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/819177036056907780

I don't think it's quite that simple. There has been quite a bit of discussion in this sub criticizing Trump's cabinet picks and his attitudes regarding Israel.

What about his attitude towards Israel? Didn't he back them up a few weeks ago regarding illegal settlements that the U.N. complained about?

Trump is as Israel friendly as the last 10 presidents.

And many people in this sub don't like that

Nah not as soon as it's anti-Trump but as soon as it's something coming out of the CIA then yes

No problem with the anti trump stuff. I am just not down with another stupid pointless Cold War. We were pretty okay with Russia until Clinton grabbed on to them while she was falling down. This is a republican talking point, baseless accusations tying your opponent to Russia.

We were pretty okay with Russia until Clinton grabbed on to them while she was falling down.

I was okay with Russia until they invaded Ukraine and the rest of the world just kind of shrugged.

Nice fake news mate. Russia never invade Ukraine, literally didn't happen.

The sun doesn't rise in the east. Literally never happened. Fake news mate.

Except the sun does rise in th east. You're actually braindead if you think the sub doesn't rise in the east, and if you believe Russia invaded Ukraine. You just believe what you are told with no evidence and tons of evidence to the contrary. Sad.

Oh ok, Russian soldiers just like to all vacation en masse in uniform with all of their weapons driving tanks with air support.

How much do you make being a professional troll? Did you ever stop to question whether professionally lying to people was an ethical way to make a living, or is the FSB threatening your family or something?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0x0mnrq9j4

WTF is this shit? Some obscure blurry untranslated video of someone who could be a paid actor for all I know? Jesus, the Kremlin had the President of Ukraine in their pocket, so not exactly a stretch to imagine them getting a military officer to support their propaganda.

Dude, no one is buying this. Ever. I think about the only person left who is still arguing that Russia did not invade Ukraine is Putin himself, and even he doesn't really expect anyone to actually believe it. The only way anyone could parrot this nonsense is if it is their job. You might have been more successful getting people to the rest of your shilling if you hadn't added this brazenly Orwellian lie.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2014/07/us-says-russian-military-has-fired-artillery-into-ukraine/

http://www.worldaffairsjournal.org/article/ukraine-invasion-one-year-later

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_military_intervention_in_Ukraine_(2014%E2%80%93present)

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2016/11/20/international-criminal-court-russias-invasion-of-ukraine-is-a-crime-not-a-civil-war/#72fc00f57fec

http://uatoday.tv/politics/ukrainian-soldiers-to-find-new-proof-of-russia-s-presence-in-donbas-region-699161.html

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31794523

https://conflictreport.info/2015/01/23/hard-evidence-the-regular-russian-army-invades-ukraine/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2016/09/06/russian-combat-medals-put-lie-to-putins-claim-of-no-russian-troops-in-ukraine/#5781fd57a0f8

I think about the only person left who is still arguing that Russia did not invade Ukraine is Putin himself

And the Ukrainian Generals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0x0mnrq9j4

I guess you forgot you're supposed to be propagandizing to Americans and most of us don't speak Russian or Ukrainian. Damn, you guys should hire me to shill. I will at least remember what language my targets speak.

Hahaha he's deleted all of his comments! I guess it's better to run with his tail between his legs than face cold hard evidence that risks changing his world view.

He's probably commenting right now under another account. I guess these are only good for a few weeks before they have too much history of obvious shilling.

I managed to hit the back button enough until it loaded a page where his comments were still visible. Looks like he may not have actually deleted his account, just this entire comment chain. I sent him a message saying I had no hard feelings and could send him my pics of Russian tanks if he is still interested. Maybe if he's cool I'll get a Russian pen pal out of this!

He'd probably end up in a gulag for that.

Why not link to a source I stead using logical fallacies?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

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Dude, I was in Kiev back in Spring 2015. They have captured Russian tanks on display in the middle of the public square with the original Russian markings still on them. I have some very distant family who lives there as well and aside from the diehard Russian loyalists, every one in the country acknowledges Russia's involvement. I wasn't aware that anyone besides Putin was still denying this.

Dude, I was in Kiev back in Spring 2015.

The government in Kiev and the US government wanted everyone in the world to believe that Russia had invaded Crimea. Here is a video of a Kiev General who participated in the conflict admitting there were very few Russians, and no Russian military involved in the conflict.

They have captured Russian tanks on display in the middle of the public square with the original Russian markings still on them.

So Russia invaded Crimea with tanks and then Ukraine captured those tanks? You believe that shit?

every one in the country acknowledges Russia's involvement

Being involved and actively invading are two completely different things.

When I said distant family, I meant it. I don't speak Ukrainian or Russian so I can't verify what is being said in that video. It also says the video was published on Feb 1, 2014 which is prior to when the vast majority of the fighting took place.

Yes, I believe the Ukrainians captured the tanks. I even put my hand through one of the fist sized holes in the armor caused by an anti-tank weapon. There is zero doubt in my mind that it was a captured Russian tank in front of me. I can upload the pictures when I get home tonight if you are interested.

There is a difference between being involved and actually participating. I believe (along with all reliable sources) that they were actively participating, but in this case I'm not sure how it matters. Either way they still annexed an entire region of another sovereign nation and the world just sat and watched. Heck, there are still some people who cover their eyes and act like it never even happened.

My point from day one was that Russian didn't invade Ukraine, obviously they were involved. Crimea for the most part wanted to be a part of Russia, and not Ukraine. It only makes sense for Russia to be involved. They did not invade Ukraine at any point however.

They did invade. There is overwhelming evidence for it but your only evidence against is a 30 second YouTube video in Ukrainian with no associated context. Why is it so hard for you to believe that Russia invaded?

They did invade. There is overwhelming evidence for it but your only evidence against is a 30 second YouTube video in Ukrainian with no associated context.

Saying there is evidence means there is AMIRITE?

http://uatoday.tv/politics/proofs-of-russia-s-invasion-of-donbas-presented-to-nato-pa-809598.html

https://newrepublic.com/article/119260/russias-invasion-ukraine-evidence-convincing-putin-denies

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31794523

How much more would you like me to post? That other user already gave you numerous links and all you did was respond with the one YouTube video that was from before most of the actual invasion. Before I dig up a bunch of additional links, please tell me the number it would take to change your mind. Something tells me there is no amount of evidence in the world that will get you to admit Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014.

It seems pretty cut and dry; Russia annexed Crimea, which was considered part of Ukraine - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation

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There is no invasion claimed... Only "masked Russian troops without insignia took over the Supreme Council of Crimea". Seems legit.

Educate yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-Jme77Dfc4

Thanks for an alternative view. I was only able to watch a quarter of it so far.

While it is compelling, I still find myself not trusting anything... not even the Wikipedia post I found nor the views being presented in the video. Everything is open to manipulation and interpretation.

How does anyone know for sure?

I wonder what it would be like to be in the a region under this sort of turmoil and it's fucking scary. How do those people know they aren't being lied to? Andd the assholes who took over the Ukrainian government - what if they are being manipulated by US forces/entities? I saw fuck face McCain. What is his involvement?

I always hope to know the truth and ever seen the truth. So, thanks for sharing.

Everyone wants to overlook that. Most liberals could care less about Russia before the invasion. Now the narrative is that liberals have been trying to vilify Russia for no reason.

I guess I'm grading on a curve. How many countries has the US invaded? Unless that does not matter to you because those countries are not predominantly white.

I never once defended the US, our past or present foreign policy, or any invasions. In fact, I never even mentioned the US. If you want me to discuss our invasions of foreign countries I will, but none of that has anything to do with Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

Except it being a significantly larger pot calling the kettle black.

might want to update your facts about what happened in russia.

there's even a handy tape recorded converstaion just release readiiy available between our state dept officials congratulating themselves for our propping up the neo-nazi coup, and debating which of the neo-nazi leaders we'd like best as president.

crimeans are ethoc russians, the ukrainians neo-nazis make no bones about there desire for them to not exist.

Crimea was historically Russian, only separated in the last century. They had a referendum and voted overwhelmingly to re-join Russia. Like, over 90% of the people. You don't get to be upset that those people got what they wanted.

Could you imagine if Mexico wanted to take back Texas in the same way? I mean, it was historically Mexican and most people there still speak the same language. I'm not upset that people in Crimea felt closer to Russia than Ukraine, I'm upset that Russia invaded and annexed the region in what is almost universally considered an illegal annexation. You can't just take part of another country because the people in that region want you to. Well, I mean I guess you can because there really isn't much punishment if you do.

You can if they have a referendum and vote unanimously to join you. Texas would never vote to join Mexico, what a dumb false equivalency.

Tell me more.

All independent polls leading up to it showed a majority desired it.

Ukraine is a lot more complicated than "Russia invaded!" You should know by now that these situations are rarely as clear cut as the mainstream corporate media wants you to think.

You're right, it is way more complicated that my simple statement. And more complicated than all of the "Russia did nothing wrong!" responses too. Yes, the people of Crimea did vote to join Russia. Yes, Russia did send in unmarked military units before, during, and after the vote. Do I think Russia did all of this out of the kindness of their hearts and the love of the Crimean people? No, they clearly wanted access to the port of Sevastapol and saw the perfect opportunity for a bit of land grabbing in the aftermath of the Ukrainian Revolution. In the end, it is still considered an illegal annexation since Ukraine still claims the region as theirs and (as far as I'm aware) not a single other nation has officially recognized Crimea as part of Russia. And yes, the United States was doing plenty of their own meddling to try to get a new Ukrainian government favorable to their interests. They've also invaded plenty of other countries too. I don't know why people keep bringing that up as if it makes this okay. I'm well aware of the awful stuff our country has done too.

Fair points. However I'd rather Russia have control of Crimea than neo-nazis, just as I'd rather Assad have control of Syria over ISIS.

It's not that it's anti trump, it's that it's pro war with Russia. A narrative that's been pushed for a while now for no good reason.

people on this sub thread

FTFY. The good regulars of this sub are not about that Cold War life, just the trolls that have invaded since hitting the FP

Like, I will not lie. I am bias in favor of a peaceful future. A war with Russia is exactly what they need to go full on 1984, a war to lower standards of living even further without question. I will not help get on that path.

I don't even understand why we can't be allies with Russia. I view them more favorably right now than almost any other country in Europe excluding maybe Poland and Hungary. Times are different now, we have a common enemy and need to work together since the globalists are unwilling to.

They attempted to be communist once, so naturally they're all evil or something like that.

Oh, no, wait. It's because we need a big bad guy to point fingers at and use to push less freedoms and rights. Give it a bit, the next terrorist attack will be a Russian terrorist.

Are you serious? Putin murders journalists in their hundreds. He orchestrated his own 9/11 in the apartment bombings to cement his dictatorial power. He treats the wealth of his country as his own personal piggy bank. He invaded Ukraine and annexed part of it. He works hand in glove with the Orthodox Church to enforce insane regressive social policies. He is a bad man who does bad things.

You can't be allies with Russia because Russia is not interested in being allies with you, Russia is interested in weakening you and establishing its own complete dominion over Eurasia. All you would be doing is opening yourself up to further manipulation. You are being a useful idiot. That's a term they've been using since fucking 1941, none of this is new and none of this is out of character for Russia.

The Foundations of Geopolitics is the most significant conspiracy theory of the past 30 years and you're all ignoring it because you worship Trump and think you can be friends with Russia, it is fucking insane.

It was pushed by Russia too. I mean c'mon - you should have seen the bots registering on forums like defconwarningsystems.com and posting pictures of Russian military hardware. At the same time Russia sends its aircraft carrier down to Syria in a very public show of force. They even scheduled visits in several ports that they cancelled at the last minute, causing news reports each time. The Russians were in full propaganda mode and their entire push in Syria was timed to hit us during a transition and to help support the narrative that the party in power in the US was pushing for war with Russia. In the meantime, it was Russia that was making statements about how small tactical nuclear devices have changed the equation regarding if they could be used in battle.

you should have seen the bots registering on forums

Just like CTR?

posting pictures of Russian military hardware.

like the Zimwalt?

At the same time Russia sends its aircraft carrier down to Syria in a very public show of force.

America will show force by interfering with North Korea Missile test..

The Russians were in full propaganda mode

And America isn't? Anything Russia has done, America has done as well, if not worse. Such as the entire destabilization of the middle east, which was done as a proxy war against Russia.

it was Russia that was making statements about how small tactical nuclear devices have changed the equation regarding if they could be used in battle.

Nukes still are, and always will be, a M.A.D device. Lets say Russia plants enough nukes to destroy the entire surface of America. When a nuclear Submarine comes to surface to make contact, and don't make contact, they do have standing orders. But that's assuming Russia can simultaneously kill everyone in America, without getting retaliation from another country. A war will never happen with nukes. If there is a war, it will be a meat grinder set up to lower the average person's living conditions.

O will you stop with the CTR already. This sub is a standing example of how shills for Trump have been far louder and more obnoxious in shouting their propaganda. I'm sure there are people saying saying shit for all points of view, just attacking one group of shills makes you one of them for the other side.

The Russian propaganda and military moves were clearly coordinated and designed to have multiple effects. It was far more sophisticated than anything the US has accomplished in the middle east in recent years actually. With minimal $$ expenditures they have been able to have massive effect.

Yes America has propaganda. But they aren't this effective. Maybe they were prior to the fall of USSR, but not in recent times. This media weapon Russia has developed is formidable and not to be underestimated.

I see the destabilization of the middle east as the result of a bunch of misguided policies, but in large, it doesn't amount to a proxy war with Russia except in regard to Syria and Iran. I do not think Bush thought far enough ahead to see the consequences of Iraq.

Here is RT saying that M.A.D. is compromised by smaller, more accurate tactical nukes: https://www.rt.com/news/354463-nuclear-weapon-russia-usa/

O will you stop with the CTR already.

Then don't use bots/social media influence as a point?

This sub is a standing example of how shills for Trump have been far louder and more obnoxious in shouting their propaganda

/r/politics was pro Clinton completely, up until the funding stopped. Imagine that. This sub isn't pro-Trump, it's Anti Clinton.

It was far more sophisticated than anything the US has accomplished in the middle east in recent years actually.

...And? America still has a very strong military presence. I don't watch MSM, but I'm sure America is doing just as much dick waving.

Yes America has propaganda. But they aren't this effective. Maybe they were prior to the fall of USSR, but not in recent times.

Take a look at how we view the USSR and tell yourself that. American propaganda has

• Equated all Socialism to Communism.

• Equated Communism to evils.

• Ignores a large part of the eastern front in WW2.

• Acts as if Terrorist attacks are a big deal.

• Makes America look like the only good country.

This media weapon Russia has developed is formidable and not to be underestimated.

And this media weapon is.... what? The exact same thing as CTR?

I see the destabilization of the middle east as the result of a bunch of misguided policies, but in large, it doesn't amount to a proxy war with Russia except in regard to Syria and Iran.

Go back to cold war times. Ever wonder why the stereotypical terrorist has an Ak-47?

I do not think Bush thought far enough ahead to see the consequences of Iraq.

it's way before Bush, oh, and lets not forget Osama Bin Laden, Anti Soviet hero That ran in 1993. Pre- Bush. At least, the most recent Bush.

Here is RT saying that M.A.D. is compromised by smaller, more accurate tactical nukes:

M.A.D isn't mentioned once in that post. If you didn't read it yourself, it's about America making new, more powerful nukes which will make the lower yield ones look easier to use by contrast. If we have nukes, then firebombing makes us look good. If we have bigger nukes, using big nukes makes us look good.

Also, the entire post is how America is doing this. How America will be using smaller nukes. Where do you get the idea that Russia will be? Oh, and lets not forget...

It is believed that once production starts, the nuclear bombs will be housed on the territory of five European countries – Belgium, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands and Turkey.

Perfect. So now Russia needs to not piss off 6 countries.

Also, fun fact. Assuming this is accurate, USA and Russia are, as you imagine, the top 2 for nuclear stockpiles. The seccond being, somehow, France. A fully loaded Ohio Class Submarine, with Trident II missiles, will have 288 warheads on board (As they're cluster nukes). That's more nukes on a single submarine, than every other country... aside from France. There's 18 of those subs out there.

You've got to keep in mind most of the general public could easily be swayed in favor of nuclear arms usage if a small tactical nuke was ever used against America. MSM will spin it up as multiple times worse than the bombs dropped on Japan in WW2, which is possible as Little Boy was 15Kt blast power. Listed on the Tactical Nuke page is the OTR-21, which can fire

a 100 kiloton nuclear warhead a distance of 185 km

So that's a tactical nuke, over 6 times as powerful as a bomb dropped in WW2. How much fun would MSM have if that was used against Ally Troops? Suddenly the entire American public is yelling to nuke Russia to glass.

Then don't use bots/social media influence as a point? CTR is really not much compared to the crowd-sourced witch hunts they have demonstrated that they can generate. It is old because it's been the invisible enemy for the massive horde of pro-trump shills. They see CTR around every corner when the entire sub is plastered with them saying the same bullshit. I'm sure the US is on to Russia's social media BS now and will shortly be employing the same tactics or at least a countermeasure to the tactics. The propaganda in general is a big issue that we all need to find a way to combat. I'm not saying this is a good thing. Just this is where we are.

Yes yes this is all about the never-ending military industrial complex. It's all America's complex and Russia doesn't have one right? That's the message they want to push. It's bullshit because they are just as bad and if the US withdraws from these regions around the world, what do you think Russia will do?

M.A.D isn't mentioned once in that post. If you didn't read it yourself, From the article: “This means that the armaments threshold could in theory have been lowered, which of course will destabilize the situation to a certain extent,” Ryabkov added."

In other words weapons that are considered more "ethical" to use by one side destabilizes the concept that you cannot use them at all or we destroy each other completely. Their use is more likely and therefore another country might be in the position of choosing how to respond. Which could result in M.A.D failing. Maybe that's too deep of a read for someone who thinks I don't read articles I link them to.

Perfect. So now Russia needs to not piss off 6 countries. If you believe their state-sponsored rhetoric that states that their use is more likely for some reason. I don't buy it. It was part of a big propaganda push. They also moved nuke capable launchers into very provocative postures. I'm not saying NATO expansion isn't a provocation in it's own way. But the view that this conflict is all the US is hysterical. Here's another article that came out recently: https://www.rt.com/news/363981-russian-icbm-sarmat-missile/ - and the other perspective: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/25/russia-unveils-satan-2-missile-powerful-enough-to-wipe-out-uk-fr/

I have to agree the US populace will support what the military considers to be an appropriate nuclear response. For instance, if North Korea were to nuke someone, I could see an overwhelming response. Russia, you would probably see an equal response. But in truth, no nuclear engagement will end well. Also, we are a bit naive to think that information won't propagate. The knowledge of how to create more complex bombs also brings the possibility of creating a doomsday device like a Cobalt-60 bomb. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt_bomb

Theoretically, a device containing 510 tons of Co-60 can spread 1g of the material to each square km of the Earth's surface (510,000,000 km2). Radiation output from 1g of Co-60 over one half life is equivalent to 44000 GBq, which is sufficient to kill any inhabitants. If one assumes that all of the material is converted to Co-60 at 100 percent efficiency and if it is spread evenly across the Earth's surface, it is possible for a single bomb to kill every person on Earth. However, in fact, complete 100% conversion into Co-60 is unlikely, as 1957 British experiment at Maralinga showed that Co-59's neutron absorption ability was much lower than predicted, resulting in a very limited formation of Co-60 isotope in practice.

I'd agree that to some extent we are fucked because this shit exists. I'm sure by now someone in Russia, China, or US has figured out how to make a bomb like that more efficient. Can't wait until some armageddon-crazed religious fanatic gets their hands on one. Then there are incidents like the one involving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov .

Due to the situation, any provocation sucks. And this latest hacking move by Putin was a very dangerous provocation. If the GOP ever goes back to their traditional stance on Russia, which I suspect they will when Pence takes over after Trump does what Trump does. They will have a democratic party that fully supports aggressively engaging Russia.

CTR is really not much

They completely took over, and managed /r/politics to the point it looked like Clinton was Reddit's choice pick. They did this on multiple websites, and named it the most 1984 way they could. How is this, not much?

compared to the crowd-sourced witch hunts they have demonstrated that they can generate.

Who's crowd sourcing anything? individuals took measures themselves, but that's it.

They see CTR around every corner when the entire sub is plastered with them saying the same bullshit.

Imagine that.

The propaganda in general is a big issue that we all need to find a way to combat.

What propaganda..? You keep saying this like everything is covered in vodka and AKs, The only propaganda I see is pro-war with Russia.

Yes yes this is all about the never-ending military industrial complex. It's all America's complex and Russia doesn't have one right?

What? Are you seriously trying to act like Russia doesn't have a military, and like that's a public opinion?

“This means that the armaments threshold could in theory have been lowered, which of course will destabilize the situation to a certain extent,”

This isn't touching on MAD. This is just saying it seems like a decent choice, something I legitimately said in my post.

If we have nukes, then firebombing makes us look good. If we have bigger nukes, using big nukes makes us look good.

See?

In other words weapons that are considered more "ethical" to use by one side destabilizes the concept that you cannot use them at all or we destroy each other completely.

Uhhhh, no? M.A.D could go off just by doing something stupid, like deporting a bunch of ambassadors... Where the other side retaliates as much, if not greater. Leading to a spiral of death. Someone uses a 50Kt nuke? They get a 70Kt nuke doped on them. Which is answered by a 100Kt. Similar to how you'd never want to invade America. Even if you're successful, last ditch nukes will be used, Assuring mutual destruction. MAD.

Their use is more likely and therefore another country might be in the position of choosing how to respond. Which could result in M.A.D failing.

Or it could result in the use of nukes willy-nilly, which will cause a MAD scenario regardless.

If you believe their state-sponsored rhetoric that states that their use is more likely for some reason.

This is hard to understand. First off you're tossing in propaganda randomly. Then you're saying that the positioning of Nukes in other countries isn't a redundancy? Why else? For fun?

rt.com/news/363981-russian-icbm-sarmat-missile/

and is expected to have up to 10 heavy or 16 lighter warheads

So, a competitor to the American Trident? The one that can already carry 14 warheads, and sit in packs of 24, on nuclear submarines?

Aside from that, no real information is given aside from "Faster" and a engineering carry weight which will be much lower by the time production is done.

The knowledge of how to create more complex bombs also brings the possibility of creating a doomsday device like a Cobalt-60 bomb.

Or just a SLAM

The use of a nuclear engine in the airframe promised to give the missile staggering and unprecedented low-altitude range, estimated to be roughly 113,000 miles (182,000 km) (over four and a half times the equatorial circumference of the earth). The engine also acted as a secondary weapon for the missile: direct neutron radiation from the virtually unshielded reactor would sicken, injure, or kill living things beneath the flight path; the stream of fallout left in its wake would poison enemy territory; and its strategically selected crash site would receive intense radioactive contamination. In addition, the sonic waves given off by its passage would damage ground installations.

I'm sure by now someone in Russia, China, or US has figured out how to make a bomb like that more efficient.

In theory. We'd be able to detect tests. Both by the seismic waves, and the sudden abundance of Cobalt. As we already have with Low Background Steel.

Can't wait until some armageddon-crazed religious fanatic gets their hands on one.

Uhh, that wouldn't be possible? You would, at the very least, need a forklift to get it out of whatever 50 Km deep bunker it's been sitting in, and to even arm such a device would need multiple high-authority men, probably including the leader of the country.

Then there are incidents like the one involving https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislav_Petrov

Or the dual Nukes in North Carolina

And this latest hacking move by Putin was a very dangerous provocation.

Once again you're assuming it's fact that Russia hacked anything of importance. Not only is there no concrete proof, and the only 'proof' I've seen is the fact that hackers have different styles, and the style seemed to match Russians, but there's absolutely no reason to think Putin, or the government of Russia, had anything to do with it. And once again, leaked emails is not that big of a deal, you're to busy shooting the messenger that you didn't even read the message.

I think we agree on MAD. Anything that makes use of nukes more likely to use it bad. MAD exists because everyone is afraid to use the nukes. Pretty much that simple. The Russian interpretation is that the nukes are bad because US commanders have used the term "[more] ethical" in the describing the new weapon. The US interpretation is that if we have to use nukes ever, at least we can be more precise and less damaging. It all depends on who you think has an evil motive I guess. I do not think that anyone on either side intends to use nuclear weapons in a direct confrontational manner. Not unless armageddon is triggered. Many many times over the years they have been used as saber-rattling for the major powers.

As far as the hacking goes. I believe the US intelligence agencies. Particularly after the FBI changed it's position on further review. I think it shows that there is credible debate going on in the community as well. US intelligence agencies have a lot of good information and methods that cannot be revealed in a public document. Demanding they give you XKS logs or any other sort of privileged intel that could reveal sources and methods is kinda ignorant. They just aren't going to do that. So if you don't want to believe the assessment of all 17 intelligence agencies, then don't. I guess. But lets be fair, no campaign manager on earth would like their chances in a race where their internal communications were made public. Whomever perpetrated the hacks and subsequent leak, would probably have known this. This was not something of no importance, that was stolen.

It's because all of the anti-trump stuff that's been tried is just so sad, pathetic, desperate, unsourced, imaginary, and outright fake.

Yall got nothing. For more than a year now...

You've very much moved everyone to the attitude of 'oh fuckoff already.'

nope.

this is why voting systems for internet karma points is a misleading system for measuring sentiment....

DONT fucking vote. Why not try a litmus of how others vote to use that as a detector of what people/shills are doing?

It's all propaganda

So I'm not allowed to express my conspiracy theory that Trump is a Russian puppet in /r/conspiracy? When did this become a safe space for T_D? Wasn't this sub also touting HRC's Wallstreet connections throughout the election cycle, even though it's covered in MSM? Who are you to decided what is a conspiracy and what isn't?

Here: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984/Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.pdf

Just as much evidence for the pizzagate conspiracy that mods allowed.

Not really, no. Try harder.

I downvoted you, but I will also give you a bit of advise.

Yours is a low effort shit post. Try harder.

..like for example explain your opinion, provide some backup for your opinion. Stuff like that,

lmfao are you high?

Typical response from someone dismissing conspiracy theories.

Yep, that's what I'm here to do lmfao.

Does a 35 page pdf created by veteran John McCain, acknowledged by the FBI and briefed to the POTUS do?

It wasn't created by McCain lol

This says otherwise

“Late last year, I received sensitive information that has since been made public. Upon examination of the contents, and unable to make a judgment about their accuracy, I delivered the information to the Director of the FBI. That has been the extent of my contact with the FBI or any other government agency regarding this issue.”

Did you really just submit that piece of toilet paper as "evidence"? Is this really happening? Disclaimer: I don't even like Trump, and I sure as hell don't trust him, but this is why people are not being taken seriously when they talk about Trump ties to Russia. We have yet to see literally anything that would serve as a remotely credible source of evidence to support these allegations. This just makes the people expressing this theory look like they're crying wolf and working to discredit or delegitimize the president-elect.

That's the point of my comment, there's just as much 'evidence' there as the majority of conspiracies allowed on here. You can't throw out this piece of paper without throwing out nearly everything brought up here. You can claim this paper is worthless, a 4chan prank, etc., but isn't that the same argument used to dismiss most conspiracies? What makes your conspiracy evidence about pizza place pedophiles more valid that one about Trump getting golden showers in a Russian Ritz hotel?

Here's the difference-one narrative is being pushed by the CIA and one isn't. No, most conspiracies aren't of just some baseless story without evidence. They in fact usually evolve from a point of hard evidence, something this trump hit-piece lacks.

This kind of conspiracy falls more in the level of believability with "Michelle Obama is a dude" rather than "john podesta and James Alefantis have weird instagram friends who seem into child trafficking" or "marina abromovich through blood all over tony podestas house for fun"-both of which really happened.

Personally I dismissed the pizzagate "evidence" as well as the spirit cooking "evidence" about just as fast, although I do believe that a lot of this stuff does happen, it was just weak evidence.

It is too easy to be apt to dismiss conspiracy that involves someone you support/agree with, and be quick to rally around conspiracy that involves someone you don't; I definitely see that here in /r/conspiracy and I guess if that is your point I can't really disagree.

Why don't you explain to everyone why you think you have the authority to make such rules?

This is just my opinion.. but I would be feeling pretty stupid if I tried to dictate the narrative of thousands of people on the internet..

lol if that rule was actually enforced half of the posts in this sub would be gone.

Remember when this sub said the DC pizza place had kids in thier basement?

Remember how that same DC pizza place has no fucking basement?

Was that post removed? no. The rule is not followed by anyone, not even the mods. This sub is pretty much owned by Trump shills that won't allow any negative opinions on him

Source for no basement?

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/police-man-with-assault-rifle-dc-comet-pizza-victim-of-fake-sex-trafficking-story/

"Comet Ping Pong owner James Alefantis said then that the restaurant does not even have a basement."

Of course he'd say that. I thought it was common knowledge he had confirmed the basement in an interview before the scandal broke. Have you actually been paying any attention to the evidence presented? This guy is the lowest form of inhuman scum and should be flayed and kept alive to live in an iron cage on public display.

lol you're fucking pathetic, mind showing me the solid evidence of this guys guilt?

sure.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=pizzagate+primer

document versions of everything

Go ahead and catch yourself up to speed first so I don't have to keep reproducing evidence that's public knowledge. I'll leave you with this quote by jimmy kidfucker himself "THE SECRET IS IT'S AN EMPOWERMENT, AND EMPOWERMENT BY DEFINITION IS TRUST, SO LIKE, I TRUST THAT THE RELATIONSHIP THAT I HAVE WITH THE CUSTOMERS IS THAT THEY UNDERSTAND I LOOK OUT FOR THEM, AND IN RESPONSE, THEY LOOK OUT FOR US"

Nothing in there proves guilt for the Pizza place owner. Try again

READ THAT FUCKING QUOTE AGAIN. HE IS TALKING ABOUT A CHILDREN'S PIZZA PLACE FOR FUCK SAKE.

I read it, it doesn't prove guilt. You bring that into a court they're going to laugh you out of the building.

This is the problem with people like you, everything to you is good evidence i'm sorry but by every western judicial standard he is not guilty and he wont be until you crazy people get actual evidence

He is talking about a pizza place geared towards children. Are you mentally defective? LOOK at the pictures.

If your proof proves him guilty then why isn't he being arrested?

Because the justice system uses a less precise standard of proof.

No I'd say you do

You'd be retarded.

I would be if you had any good proof that they were child murderes/rapists but you don't have that

What's behind that pizza place? What's under that? Who owns the entire block?

Those right wing tears are filled with glory, yea? It will be ok my little snowflake.

So I’m not allowed to express my conspiracy theory that Trump is a Russian puppet in /r/conspiracy?

Please do. We need a good laugh and it outs you pretty soundly.

Lol you aren't even fucking hiding it. Trump shills eveywhere.

Shill this shill that... You realize you are on a board where the average person doesnt trust US intelligence. They dont trust the NIST report. They think Sandy Hook was a hoax. You are surprised they dont trust a silly document published by Buzzfeed?! Are you fucking nuts?

I'm surprised of all the hand waving and the "this doesn't need to be looked into" this board went through hell for pizza gate and dnc leaks and this is where they start handwaving things? Oh those dirty Clinton's are hiding shit but trump nah his billionaire nose clean. The hypocrisy of this board right now is crazy.

Who is handwaving? Pizzagate and pissgate have nothing in common. One was slowly uncovered through citizen journalism and investigation. One was propped up overnight by fucking Buzzfeed lol! Pizzagate has hundereds of points of odd connections, intertwined businesses and relationships. Pissgate has a silly document that looks like it was written by a teenager. For conspiracies to gain true steam it has to be organic. An overnight sensation pushed by the MSM and the powers that be is the exact opposite of pizza gate.

Pissgate had an official intelligence report given from McCain to comey.

Exactly lol.... You are on /r/conspiracy that is the exact type of thing we question.

But you don't question the billionaire businessman? And what he says?

What did he say that you want me to question? I just want you to understand you are on a board where the NIST report on 9/11 is considered to a complete lie to cover up government conspiracy to destroy the twin towers. I just dont understand how you think they wont question this document. You must be new here haha.

We are currently on a post denying several conspiracies and asking that we stop talking about them.

Yeah all the good conspiracies run at the top of /r/politics for 24 hours, have non stop news coverage and fit into a nice 30 page document, typed up for /r/conspiracy to just lap up.

Every time something about trump comes up. This board is brigaded with trump shills denying everything.obviously hillary conspiracies need to be investigated but nah trump conspiracies are all a bunch of hooey.

But you trust the Russian govt version of the facts?

I didn't know the ruskies have an official stance on the 9/11 NIST report.

I was referring to Pissgate, the actual subject of this entire discussion.

I trust no one, especially not the Ruskies and definitely not an unsourced document pushed by the MSM and the powers that be overnight.

"Who is handwaving" as you handwave it because of buzz feed even though it's been verified as a real intelligence report.

Lol

Yeah McCain must be lying about a buzz feed document.

McCain is lying.

Lying about what? He said he got that document and gave it to the fbi but it was unverified. How is that lying?

Verified by who? Everyone is saying it's unverified

You don't understand McCain verified that it was an official intelligence report but he also said that the information in it wasn't verified. But that he was concerned and gave it to the fbi.

McCain verified it. Uh huh

He verified it was real and that i wasnt something made by buzzfeed yes.

How did he do that independently? That doesn't make any sense.

He verified nothing. Only that it is a document that he handed to FBI. Nothing more.

That's because msm handwaved all the dnc leaks but isn't hand waving this.

So because they handwave dnc leaks we have to handwave other shit? How about we don't handwave anything?

I agree, but the msm is doing a great job covering trump for the time being. We have four years to watch him and call him out on any bullshit.

But Clinton and podesta trabsgressions cannot fall through the cracks just because they lost. They seriously fucked up our leverage in ANY foreign affairs.

This is actually reasonable.

This sub has so obviously been taken over by Russian shills lol. Look at all of them freaking out trying to control the message. Too bad conspiracy theorists are the dumbest people on the planet.

Yeah... I mean I was sure when I saw the post title it was satire. Like even if you believe it, would you state such a thing so weakly? Nope, I... I was wrong.

I've been saying all along that CTR hasn't been posting here. Any organization shilling this subreddit would definitely be able to control the message, and the message has been pro Russia/Trump since the onset.

Probably because genuine social interaction dwarfs manufactured upvotes and gold in meaningful, lasting discourse.

I say this as someone who despises Trump and Clinton both. I'm not partisan on this issue at all, and it's total nonsense. This is just clear as day for anyone familiar with history and basic critical thinking.

Why should I believe "anonymous sources"? Why should I believe they are credible when Colin Powell said that the intelligence community didn't tell him that the sources they used for Iraq WMDs were burned? Why should I believe the agencies that lied about Libya? Why should I believe the agencies that lied about Syria and supported religious extremist terrorists?

Please, tell me. Partisanship is a sham, and the facts speak clearly. Anyone with a basic memory and attention span can see the forest for the trees and the farce for what it is. Can't teach an old dog new tricks and we're seeing the exact same ones time and time again. But please, tell me about how the government didn't actually make an ambassador's daughter testify that Iraqi soldiers raided hospitals just to throw babies on the floor. Tell me about that second Gulf of Tonkin attack. Tell me about those fucking WMDs.

This whole media cycle is fucking insane and every sycophant spewing this baseless rhetoric should be ashamed of themselves. History repeats ad nauseum until ya'll get a fucking clue and stop sucking big corporate dick for scraps.

You don't have to rely on "intelligence sources" for most things.

The DNC hacks, for example, were analyzed by threatconnect

https://www.threatconnect.com/blog/tapping-into-democratic-national-committee/

Basically anybody who subscribes to r/netsec has seen the evidence, and I'm surprised more people aren't citing it.

Oh right I shouldn't trust the government, I should trust a corporation. No.

Disinfo tactics. Firehose propaganda.

People who agree with your sentiment, which is reasonable, will dismiss the facts i've posted.

However: they're not anonymous sources. The DNC is not "the government". Threatconnect is not the intelligence community.

That's disinfo. Some people won't care about the distinction, but some people would have and the those ones will base their opinion on the disinfon.

Your association is simply going to increase the number of people who are misinformed. Or disinformed, if you did it on purpose.

ThreatConnect boasts about its many "allied government" contracts. There is no distinction, they're contracted by the US government among others. They will do whatever they are paid to.

You are the only one spouting a corporate agenda that not even the government is confident enough in to actually present to the public.

So anybody who has ever worked for the government can't be trusted?

Then it's simply a matter of who is more credible. The Russian government which owns its news stations and kills its journalists or the American government which bribes its news stations and blacklists its journalists.

I know who I'm going to trust.

Obviously not, only those proven to lie, which the intelligence agencies are paid to do. As are corporations, unless you think lead, tobacco, fluoride etc are totally safe. But this is a huge topic that spreads far beyond the confines of this one.

RT is the best news network around at the moment. Telesur is good too, but it's not as vast. They are easily the most impartial networks. Their debates are top notch and they are not partisan. They speak of higher issues and cut through the chaff. Their reporters are never belligerent, always reasonable, never on the lookout for shouting matches or drama.

Anyone who criticizes RT conveniently never has an example and has clearly never watched it. Look no further than Abby Martin's on-air criticism of the network and their response to see just how Kremlin-controlled it supposedly is. By your logic she would be dead by now.

You're just spreading fear, uncertainty, and doubt. You say we can't trust any government proven to lie (and all governments have at least bluffed), but we can't trust any corporation at all.

It's obvious you're raising the bar for companies because the ones we're talking about haven't been proven to lie, but you need to discredit them anyway. So you make the spurious association with lead/tobacco/flouride. Companies that lied about tobacco were selling tobacco.

The companies we're talking about aren't selling on international conflict, they're selling security analysis. The break-in justifies their contracts, not the source. If they wanted to lie, they'd be pushing something favorable to the new administration so they could secure contracts, wouldn't they?

Then of course we have glowing praise of state-owned media, featuring the one exception where the state was criticized.

And Abby Martin doesn't work for RT anymore, nor does she live in Russia.

The problem with your rhetorical question about them wanting to be favored by the new administration is that they don't expect a new administration, or at least not a Trump one. Just look at the fight against the electoral college, or the protests, or shit, just these "hacking" accusations alone. All of it is designed to ensure Trump doesn't make it to the White House, or doesn't stay long. If a corporation was aware of this, they would not be so pressed to impress.

No, Abby doesn't work for RT anymore. She moved to Telesur and now produces The Empire Files, a career move not unusual for a journalist. I happened to watch her final show and it was a teary, heartfelt farewell. Not something you'd usually see from a network supposedly under Putin's thumb. Give me an example of RT pushing Russian state propaganda, go on.

The problem with your rhetorical question about them wanting to be favored by the new administration is that they don't expect a new administration, or at least not a Trump one. Just look at the fight against the electoral college, or the protests, or shit, just these "hacking" accusations alone. All of it is designed to ensure Trump doesn't make it to the White House, or doesn't stay long. If a corporation was aware of this, they would not be so pressed to impress.

Spurious accusation with no evidence. Nothing we've seen has done anything to prevent the Trump administration from taking power.

I happened to watch her final show and it was a teary, heartfelt farewell. Not something you'd usually see from a network supposedly under Putin's thumb.

You don't expect state propaganda to play to people's emotions?

Give me an example of RT pushing Russian state propaganda, go on.

Their coverage of the Ukrainian rebellion has consistently legitimized the actions of the rebels and ignored moscow's contribution. The exceptions are significantly sparser than, for example, liberal viewpoints on fox news.

Spurious accusation with no evidence.

Sounds familiar. Oh but corporations.

Are you saying Abby Martin, whose career started before she joined RT, was born a Russian shill?

The Ukraine coverage was bad enough to have Abby call it out live on air, and I did not watch RT at that time so I can't make an informed statement about it. I don't disagree with you on it.

Are you saying Abby Martin, whose career started before she joined RT, was born a Russian shill? And continued in her last twenty minutes?

This disinfo tactic is easy to spot because it's a common logical fallacy. It's a regular old strawman argument. I said that RT was state-owned propaganda, not that every person they hired was pro-russia.

Not everybody at Fox news is conservative.

Look! Another mention of disinfo! Soon it will be true!

So far you've given no evidence to support the "propaganda" label other than the Ukraine coverage. You never made the distinction you're trying to chastise me for missing. Yes, I exaggerated, because your argument is ridiculous to begin with.

So far I've given you no evidence except the evidence I gave (which you agreed was legitimate).

I'm sure the next piece of evidence would also be insufficient or untrustworthy or what have you and I see no point in wasting any more of my time with it. You are thoroughly discredited.

You said Russian media is all fully controlled by the government. I haven't seen any evidence for this and you have yet to give any but one isolated example of this being the case on RT.

Sorry but you do not dictate who is discredited or not. You are not some sort of discourse judge.

Wikipedia has an article with citations, if you care to read it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_freedom_in_Russia

For reference, out of 178 countries, Russia is #148, and America has slid down to #41.

And straight away:

Russian Ombudsman Vladimir Lukin reported in 2006, that suggesting that freedom of speech is non-existent in Russia would be an exaggeration, the constitutional right for speech freedom is basically observed, as well as that there was no institutionalised censorship. Apparently for these very reasons journalists and publishers seldom appeal to the Commissioner protesting restrictions of their right of seeking, receiving, transferring, publishing or distributing information. Yet disguised restrictions exist to a considerable degree, they are often put through the economic pressure on mass media by the authorities and loyal business. The so-called "self-censorship" which induces journalists to refrain from disseminating information which, in their opinion, may not please the authorities, is also widespread. So in many places the right to praise the authorities is ensured, while the opposite right is just formally declared.

This is exactly what America does. Literally all that's different is that Russia is state capitalist and has direct control over the media, whereas American media is wholly corporate-controlled with a gross relationship between the media, military and government. Military retirees tend to acquire cushy jobs in corporate media as armchair generals shilling for the arms industry and pushing hawkish agendas. I believe there was a rather detailed report on this relationship, I need to dig it up.

Just look at the Podesta emails where political collusion with journalists is fucking rampant. One reporter grovels for his approval over a story. I'd wager that this happens in Russia too, but again, "but he does it too" does not negate the actions of the other, all must be held accountable.

And yet, here you are using "but he does it to" to draw attention away from Russia doing it.

And conveniently ignoring the degree to which each group does it. There's a reason the US isn't in the top ten, but there's also a reason Russia isn't in the top hundred.

No, I'm drawing attention to the fact that your moral outrage is pure baloney. Sure there's a reason, I haven't denied this. Media in the US is not free, it's just better at hiding this fact.

Most of the murdered journalists you like to cite so much were murdered by the likes of organized crime and big business, not the government. That's not to say there weren't government-mandated murders, but you're consistently exaggerating.

I did, and I think that's a good point.

Russia has many problems. As do most countries in the world. At the same time, it's not as simple as your rhetoric.

It really is as simple as my rhetoric.

No it isn't. Get over yourself. You have nothing damning, nothing concrete, just spurious links, assertions and statements from a government contractor, obviously the height of reliability. Not driven by profit or anything.

There are actually statements from three security companies, in addition to the statements by the FBI and CIA.

The leaks also served Putin's goals, improved the political power of his American supporters, and were in line with tactics used by the Russian government previously.

The Russian government had the motivation and capacity to perform the attacks, and multiple private companies and US government agencies have claimed the Russian government is likely responsible.

The FBI and CIA are utterly untrustworthy. Corporations even less so, especially when they've changed their tune so many times already and keep scrambling for new angles to attack from every time one narrative gets shot down.

What goal did they serve exactly? Trump's election served many people, literally any of whom could've been responsible for these "hacks" going by how sparse your intel is. A teenager could've done it for all these agencies and companies you spout know.

There is an endless list of people who have the motivation and capacity to hack the US, including but not limited to the US itself. Private companies and US government agencies are unreliable without actual, tangible evidence. None of which exists because the whole story is a farce.

You still have not given me a single reason why I should trust any of these people. Corporations carry no inherent legitimacy. The intelligence agencies have burned themselves too many times to be taken seriously with no evidence and "anonymous sources" who are unlikely to exist when former members of their own fucking organizations are calling them lunatics.

Putin is less trustworthy than either the CIA or FBI, and certainly less trustworthy than independent security contractors.

You shouldn't trust any of them, you should simply take information provided and come to a conclusion.

In this case, there's evidence that the Russian government was responsible, proof that the Russian government was motivated, and no exculpatory evidence for either one.

Please compile a list of sources showing Putin to be untrustworthy and I guarantee I have a list two or three times the size for those agencies. You clearly have not looked into them much if you're not completely disillusioned with them.

Contractors are not independent once they accept a contract. The moment money enters the picture, everything else goes out the window. Being untrustworthy is not the same as being guilty of course, except guilt.

There is ZERO tangible evidence, just claims, claims, and yet more claims. Perceived motivations are not motivations. To prove motivation, you would need to show that Putin expressed interest in rigging the elections. An act which he evidently failed since Clinton got three million more votes. It would appear he wasn't trying, because he wasn't, your entire argument is based on fiction.

Again, you're quick to cite the CIA but seem to conveniently ignore all of the ex-CIA personnel outright saying it is all an outright lie. The fact that the anti-Trump narrative (and I don't like the cunt) has changed its tune so quickly and so furiously with each passing week only exemplifies this. First it was the electoral college supposedly undermining American democracy (which was so untainted before last year!).

Please compile a list of sources showing Putin to be untrustworthy

Alright. Since we're specifying the current administration, I will accept any hard proof from the past eight years.

One for Putin:

https://sputniknews.com/russia/20140304188087074-Putin-Denies-Sending-Russian-Troops-to-Crimea/

Contractors are not independent once they accept a contract. The moment money enters the picture, everything else goes out the window.

Except their reputation, which they need to maintain in the event their current clients enemies wish to hire them.

There is ZERO tangible evidence, just claims, claims, and yet more claims. Perceived motivations are not motivations. To prove motivation, you would need to show that Putin expressed interest in rigging the elections

Putin has openly supported Trump. But when did I say the elections were rigged? Or even imply that they were?

Again, you're quick to cite the CIA but seem to conveniently ignore all of the ex-CIA personnel outright saying it is all an outright lie.

The evidence provided does not prevent Trump from coming to power. If they were willing to fake evidence, they could have faked evidence of collusion instead.

They also could have faked more direct evidence, it wouldn't have been any harder to debunk.

If your three security companies are so trustworthy and hit the nail on the head over half a year ago, exactly why isn't a single media outlet reporting them?

You mean like this one?

Many people openly support Trump. Doesn't mean they are "motivated to hack elections." Your accusations would not hold up in court if you played it like this.

Ah yes, the good old WaPo who made up the story to begin with. That's funny since Dmitri Alperovitch likes to flow between "high confidence" and "no doubt" quite a bit on his findings. That same article also claims the FBI was investigating Russia's hacks yet Buzzfeed discovered they didn't even glance at the DNC. Let's look at Dmitri's actual findings:

CrowdStrike found that a variant of the Fancy Bear malware that was used to penetrate the DNC’s network in April 2016 was also used to hack an Android app developed by the Ukrainian army to help artillery troops more efficiently train their antiquated howitzers on targets.

This is not evidence of anything. Once out in the wild, malware is open source. Anyone can appropriate and deploy it. They even acknowledge that the one supposedly used here is a variant, meaning it has been modified.

Here's Ben Swann ripping your narrative to shreds.

Many people openly support Trump. Doesn't mean they are "motivated to hack elections." Your accusations would not hold up in court if you played it like this.

Actually, supporting a person is a motive for committing crimes in support of that person.

This is not evidence of anything. Once out in the wild, malware is open source. Anyone can appropriate and deploy it. They even acknowledge that the one supposedly used here is a variant, meaning it has been modified.

A gun can be bought by anybody but if a suspect uses the same model as the perpetrator, that's evidence of guilt.

Here's Ben Swann ripping your narrative to shreds. Here's Wordfence dismantling it too. So you have an ACTUAL independent cyber-security firm conflicting with three firms paid by the US government. Interesting, no?

I don't think you watched those videos. Because Russian agents were known to use Ukrainian malware, Ukrainian malware is not exculpatory evidence.

And regardless of your constant stream of excuses, the fact remains that there is evidence implicating the Russian government, and no exculpatory evidence to prove innocence or implicate anyone else.

The only testimony to the contrary comes to a person whose credibility was under attack, and whose testimony conflicts with his previous mission-statement.

So you admit that any single Trump supporter is just as likely to have "hacked the election" as shadowy Russians?

It's not even the same model. Also sources needed on your Russian agents allegation.

Wait so everything you spew is evidence but anything I post is just excuses? Again, get over yourself.

So you admit that any single Trump supporter is just as likely to have "hacked the election" as shadowy Russians?

No, that's absurd. Any single Trump supporter does not have a history of attacking opponents of the Russian government.

There's also a question of the scale of benefits, because the possibility of a favored president is quite different than the definite removal of sanctions on your country.

It's not even the same model. Also sources needed on your Russian agents allegation.

I cited the CIA and FBI earlier, you refused to accept the source because the CIA has lied in the past.

Wait so everything you spew is evidence but anything I post is just excuses? Again, get over yourself.

Excuses because you're obviously just posting links rapidfire without paying attention to the contents and making arguments that are only tangentially related but that don't address the key points.

Anyway, the fact remains that there is evidence implicating the Russian government, and no exculpatory evidence to prove innocence or implicate anyone else.

It's just as absurd as your spiel. Wait so did Putin "hack the election" to put Trump in office or to attack an opponent? Make up your mind.

Both the FBI and CIA routinely lie. If you watched that Ben Swann video, you'd know that even senators do not trust the CIA. Do you not remember the torture scandal where they lied, lied, and lied some more? Do you think organizations can maintain credibility after decades of lies, corruption, murder and politically motivated attacks that continue to this day unabated?

Again, answer my question. Why should I trust the CIA? You're right, I didn't explain the benefits for those agencies. So I'll let Glenn Greenwald do it.

You keep putting "hack the election" in quotes. Who said that?

Much of the media, whether directly or obfuscated.

You keep dodging my question. Why should I trust the CIA?

Don't trust the CIA. Know the CIA's motivation so you can tell when it's in their best interests to tell the truth.

If they could come up with a better lie, or if they are suffering because of the truth, then they're telling the truth.

In this case, the truth doesn't help them, so they're not lying.

We know their motivations. Here it is again.

For months, the CIA, with unprecedented clarity, overtly threw its weight behind Hillary Clinton’s candidacy and sought to defeat Donald Trump. In August, former acting CIA Director Michael Morell announced his endorsement of Clinton in the New York Times and claimed that “Mr. Putin had recruited Mr. Trump as an unwitting agent of the Russian Federation.” The CIA and NSA director under George W. Bush, Gen. Michael Hayden, also endorsed Clinton, and went to the Washington Post to warn, in the week before the election, that “Donald Trump really does sound a lot like Vladimir Putin,” adding that Trump is “the useful fool, some naif, manipulated by Moscow, secretly held in contempt, but whose blind support is happily accepted and exploited.”

It is not hard to understand why the CIA preferred Clinton over Trump. Clinton was critical of Obama for restraining the CIA’s proxy war in Syria and was eager to expand that war, while Trump denounced it. Clinton clearly wanted a harder line than Obama took against the CIA’s long-standing foes in Moscow, while Trump wanted improved relations and greater cooperation. In general, Clinton defended and intended to extend the decadeslong international military order on which the CIA and Pentagon’s preeminence depends, while Trump — through a still-uncertain mix of instability and extremist conviction — posed a threat to it.

The CIA was pushing the Putin puppet narrative long before this nonsense you keep regurgitating even began. After Hillary Clinton's campaign team already used him as a puppet for their "pied piper candidate" and enforced the media to give him millions in free advertising while eliminating coverage of Sanders.

Again, we're talking about something they're endorsing now, and released in a report after Trump had already won.

And that doesn't justify the FBI's position, which changed after Trump had won, in a way that would affect them negatively during his tenure.

Except they're not endorsing it "now", they've been endorsing it since before there was even a story. By all accounts, they made it up.

Libya was an exercise in the CIA and institutions like AFRICOM gaining independence and executing operations without the executive branch. Clinton was largely behind this, and it's one reason the CIA supported her so ardently. She was their golden ticket to solidifying the "deep state."

Then why didn't they make up something more damaging?

Such as? They select cover stories based on plausibility. "Russian hacking" checks many boxes for propaganda.

And since you're continuing to ignore my rebuttals to your claims that the CIA has no motivations, here's more from Seymour Hersh.

You still have not given them any motivation to maintain the lie. Retracting it at any point after the election would have been to their benefit.

I did. The CIA does not intend to let Trump be President long. It's an active coup of "information." Just look at Schumer's warning.

RT is stateowned....

That is utterly meaningless. Just like how "hacking" does not undermine the content of the emails. It's a tactic called poisoning the well.

So call RT “state-funded” if you must, but if you want to “call a duck a duck,” as NPR’s host so eloquently put it, you might want to consider the pond we’re all swimming in.

how many journalists have been killed in russia?

You tell me, not that it matters.

56 since 92 i guess

https://cpj.org/killed/europe/russia/

7 for the US https://cpj.org/killed/americas/usa/

so theyre the same, but not if you really think about it

How many of those were murdered by organized crime and big business?

RT was created specifically to address Russia's media problem. But RT operates independently, its journalists do not receive talking points or bribes from the Kremlin.

There was a case regarding Ukraine when RT's coverage seemed slanted in favor of Russia, and this was largely due to RT relying on the Russian military as sources. Naturally that's a rather biased source. Abby Martin criticized it deeply live on air, and there have been no similar incidents since.

RT is consistently one of the best media outlets in the world with some of the best transparency and impartiality. I've yet to see evidence otherwise.

i bet

If you did any research you'd know this.

Hahahaha holy shit. Masterful attempt at reverse psychology.

I don't think you're a shill, I think you're wrong and naive. Like, absurdly. But feel free to believe your US government-contracted corporation that spouts how it wants to "bring order" with them.

Too late, people are going to see mine first and now they'll be thinking about that when they read your comment.

I suppose that is how disinfo works.

Why do we hate Russia?

Because they illegally annexed part of another country and supported rebels in another part of that country that resulted in the downing of a civilian airliner?

Because they've accomplished the NWO wet dream of literally owning their media. They're the ultimate result of our dark path, where the government controls everything and leverages it against the people for the benefit of the elites.

Our society has compromise, we have free speech. We can come on reddit and say the president is an orange cheeto who pretends to be a billionaire and makes fake donations to charity.

Russia is the example of what r/conspiracy is trying to avoid happening in America.

Russia is the example of what r/conspiracy is trying to prevent happening in America

Lol not anymore. Trump and Russia are to worshipped and defended in this sub. Get with the program.

You can always tell when someone doesn't understand this sub when they immediately revert to the manufactored American political paradigm.

If you can understand t_d, you can understand this sub.

Except the NWO is against Russia and Russia is against globalism. This is what astroturfing looks like folks.

Don't you get it? Trump/Russia is the NWO. The OWO were globalists. We're seeing a paradigm shift.

Russia funds nationalists all over Europe trying to destabilize the EU. They fund Trump, who (being exclusively pay-to-play) is openly pro-russia and anti-free-speech for dissenters.

You can't change the definition of NWO you dumb fuck. I'm so sick of you shills trying to change the real definitions of terms. NWO is a conspiracy to make a one world totalitarian government with no borders. The fact that Russia is nationalistic and supports nationalists makes them anti-NWO. What we're seeing is an Anti-NWO movement.

New world order is the NEW WORLD ORDER.

The ONE world government is not the new world order anymore powerful states have interfered in globalist goals and now you have the NEW world order.

NWO shit was thought of before social media, big data, and AI that analyze your every tweet to sell you stuff cracked your psychology wide open to every government on earth.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

shit I didn't get the memo nationalism and globalism is the same thing now. Got it.

Whatever makes it easier for oligarchs to consolidate power, with the way things are now, nationalism looks to be a good route for them.

This is nonsense. The stated goal has been a global government with a global central bank and a global police force. Nationalism is the first step in decentralization, which is death to the elite's plans.

stated goal

wut?

Wtf? There is no stated goal since it isnt a centralized organization. Secondly they dont care about all that shit you listed, they want POWER. And using nationalism to fracture unions to gain economic control and consolidate their power is their goal.

Nationalism is in no way incompatible with unions... I like unions, support some of them, but a lot of them are over-bloated and work against the publics best interests.

I.e. prison guard unions fighting against marijuana decriminlization

Teacher's unions who do nothing but ask for more money and protect bad teachers.

Global gov't is repeatedly the goal of the TPTB, that is exactly why you see the majority of the mainstream media come out against Trump, or any nationalist movements, like Brexit. There's nothing wrong with wanting to have a strong national identity.

It's WAY more likely that trump is just another puppet like Obama and Bush. Not working for Russia. I mean, have you forgotten it isn't who gets 'elected', it's who gets 'SELECTED'.

They fund Trump

This is a new one. How precisely is he being funded?

Loans from Russian banks, donations to the Trump foundation, and shady investment. Trump "sells" his name to people who own buildings. It's a matter of record that a lot of it comes from Russia.

In fact, it was in the news recently that a major Russian investor took out some big loans for a Trump building in Canada, paid money to Trumps company to lease his name, then bailed on the loans.

Sure Bobby, and the largest post in the sub is "artificially upvoted" (said post is clearly a hot topic in it's own right.)

It was , I saw with my own eyes what happened. It got 300 upvotes in 1 hour. And it kept getting 100 upvotes every 10 minutes. That NEVER happens for ANYTHING in this sub. And now you want us to believe that an Anti-Trump Russian thread got upvoted naturally on /r/conspiracy?

That NEVER happens for ANYTHING in this sub.

How about for ANY sub EVER? This is easily observed throughout Reddit whenever anything notable occurs and is posted.

When a post trends, it can trend very dramatically. I've seen posts on subs with much smaller sub counts gain a thousands upvotes an hour (happens often on /r/LateStageCapitalism)

I'm not sure if you know this but our media is owned too. Only difference is some people don't know it.

Our control has competition.

In Russia, causing dissent (not riots, just lack of faith in government) is against the law.

Compare the difference

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_the_United_States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia#A_list_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia

The US just charges them under the sedition and espionage acts. Look at Barret Brown.

The Russia defense squad enters the fray in yet another comment chain.

You know a lot about Russia, apparently. More than me, according to your other comment. Can you give me both sides of that? how many Russian journalists have been imprisoned that you're aware of?

I know a lot about a great many things. Such is the consequence of observation.

Journalists get imprisoned in Russia too. A critique of America is not a defense of Russia.

A critique of America is not a defense of Russia.

It is when the point of the discussion is to compare their respective criticisms.

I posted lists of journalists killed in both countries. You mentioned a journalist imprisoned, but you're only giving information for one side. More of those disinfo tactics I was criticizing earlier.

What's the data when you compare the two?

You've already gave lists. I do not disagree with you on journalists being imprisoned in both countries, Google can turn up a few results in a few seconds. Stop deflecting. My argument was that you are factually incorrect about Russia's "control" over its networks.

In what way is the comment

The US just imprisons them. Look at Barrett Brown.

an argument about Russia's "control" over their networks?

It was more humorous than anything, pointing out the one-sided and agenda-driven faux moral outrage you present.

You pointed out a one-sided agenda of a person who posted stats for both sides by posting one example from the side you're out to defend.

And you accuse me of having an agenda-driven faux moral outrage.

You're the one who keeps using disinfo tactics, maybe the agenda that bothers you so much is honesty.

This has to be like the sixth time you've regurgitated "disinfo." Your tactic loses effectiveness if you make it obvious.

I notice you didn't actually rebut my argument. Red herrings are also a disinfo tactic, and the word will be good to use as long as you keep using disinfo tactics.

There is nothing to rebut, you're just talking in circles. At some point I might as well just take a shot for every time you mention disinfo.

I'm talking in circles because your argument doesn't hold up at all.

Disinfo is a better word than bullshit, so I'm going to keep using it whenever you post some.

Sounds like you.

Putin acknowledged the troops.

"Free speech" (something I've seen many disagreements over the meaning of here) is often illegal in America too. It's just a talking point now that people cite for political expedience, it has little meaning. Russia had a miserable relationship with its media, which is why RT was established to begin with.

Repeatedly spouting "disinfo" ad nauseum won't make it so, but I'm sure you know that.

Eventually he did.

Which country has America annexed into itself (and denied having a presence of troops until the job was done) ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_territorial_acquisitions

Still no troops in Ukraine, of course.

Got a link to those conversations? The Crimean people think you're full of shit.

RT is publicly funded, like the BBC.

Clearly people who criticize RT as if it's CCCP TV have never watched it. Their programming is closer to Pacifica radio than anything else.

My dad used to make the argument

"If you want American news , what RT and if you want russian news , watch CNN"

ABC News Australia operates the same way and is generally the least biased of mainstream media; even with the budget cuts and other shenanigans by the current incompetents of the Australian Government they do a good job as far as mainstream media goes down here.

^{Read this post at own risk and presume this has been modified by Reddit Inc.}

Yup, a CBS station even hosts Ben Swann's Reality Check, which spends half its airtime correcting the mainstream media.

Russia banned the rothschilds awhile ago. They speak out against the corruption. But i think it should go without being said that any world power that exists right now shouldn't be trusted. We need to remain skeptical and analytical. I think you know you got the facts wrong on this one, buddy -__-

Free.....speech? No, no you don't. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 16388}

Free speech means you can say what you want to the public, it doesn't dictate the ability to interrupt events in order to do so.

Because they annex other countries, are a one party state, prosecute homosexuality, etc

This sub has so obviously been taken over by Russian shills lol. Look at all of them freaking out trying to control the message.

That's a nice conspiracy theory you have there. I think that makes you a conspiracy theorist.

whoa a conspiracy theorist on r/conspiracy? Wow that is a big surprise genius.

Did you even read the post I was replying to? Look at the last sentence: "Too bad conspiracy theorists are the dumbest people on the planet."

i misread it, my bad

The vast majority are. I still enjoy reading about conspiracies and used to like this sub.

In fairness they never claimed they weren't one of the dumbest people on the planet.

FTFY: think that makes you a part of the conspiracy.

Comrade, I support Bernie, but voted for the great leader Trump.

побеждать!

It's funny how that phrase can be used to completely discount hours of research and legit information so candidly.

Casually?

ya

Sooo now Russian shills are the only people fighting the powers that be, the MSM propoganda machine and we are to silently obey? You call it a message yourself and ask why we question it? /r/conspiracy is being turned upside down. Insanity!

This sub has so obviously been taken over by Russian shills lol. Look at all of them freaking out trying to control the message. Too bad conspiracy theorists are the dumbest people on the planet.

And by people such as yourself. Who add nothing contributing and put down the userbase.

I'm adding that I think you're all idiots who are easier to manipulate than the general public due to your delusions. Apparently a portion of this sub agrees.

Lol classic, downvote me cause you disagree.

If you spend your time derailing discussions between others instead of actually having one then you're a sad person.

I don't down vote or up vote anyone on reddit. But I'm glad you whine about that type of stuff.

Your last point was referencing how you were upvoted. Why don't you respond to the point of you insulting conspiracy theorists in a conspiracy subreddit. Like why be here at all?

I was pointing out people agree with me... Jesus christ do i need to walk you through this conversation? I came here to make fun of you.

I came here to make fun of you.

Thank you for saying it.

At least we know your a liar as well.

Ahh yes im sure that random guy has a dozen alt accounts just to upvote himself and downvote you.

What was he saying about delusional people again?

reading comprehension

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

Usually those that complain about being downvoted are the most pathetic. Who gives a fuck about your imaginary internet points?

Yes, I find it hilarious the hivemind will downvote things, that's pathetic. Complaining...I thought an 'lol' was enough to convey my non-complaining laughing attitude about it.

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

That would make you the "Russian Shill" if they are up-voting you for calling conspiracy people dumb.

Go back to watching CNN and reading Buzzfeed please.

Hasty generalization.

And by people such as yourself. Who add nothing contributing and put down the userbase.

Putting down the userbase? It seems like people like you will call anyone with a dissenting idea or opinion "shills".

Never said shill? Lol I just think if you're going to attack someone in a conspiracy subreddit for believing in conspiracy theories...well idk why someone would do that unless they were trying to disrupt things and troll.

People like you who say it, mostly to describe people with a different opinion, like one that isn't sucking Trump's or Russia's dick. Having a different view of things than you doesn't make me disruptive or a troll, sorry.

I agree people can have different opinions from me, that's very welcomed. It is when people put down others because they don't agree that its a problem.

Too bad conspiracy theorists are the dumbest people on the planet.

I don't see how his original comment is useful at all. Now I'm sitting here explaining why his post bothered me to a fuckwit that put words into other peoples mouths. Please continue commenting to waste more of both of our time to discuss this really important issue.

You complain about him saying conspiracy theorists are dumb and that putting people down because they disagree is a problem, then you go on to call me a fuckwit. Do you not see the irony here?

You also like him, are just engaging in pointless attack driven arguments against people in this sub. So no I do not.

Go back to discussing fake wrestling.

Lol when you don't have a valid argument so you have to attack my interests. You whine about personal attacks but that's all you even do.

Yup.

Yup.

Yup.

It's the kind of people that go to r/loseit to make fun of fat people

Look at the title of the thread buddy, this is literally a post telling the whole sub not to believe a certain conspiracy. This post, your reply and mine as well doesn't contribute anything, this is such a shitty thread and I'm suprised how this place has essentially become /the_donald2+RussiaPropaganda

You're right, pretty much in this thread is useless shit. It is still something to question why so many come here that hate conspiracies and to insult those who believe in them.

Thats exactly what the op is doing.

Anyone can believe anything they want. Really, that is just a basic premise that nobody here can challenge.

I believe the point of this post is to reach out to the original user base and remind people to use some common sense. People that have been coming here for years, like myself, can see through this manipulation in half a second. People that have been coming here for years heard the drumbeat for war with Russia start pounding during the election and realize that the propaganda campaign is continuing and even accelerating.

We remember Bush, we remember Iraq. We remember the same tactics of anonymous leaks from intelligence services to media outlets and the deliberate narrative-building and the war(s) that resulted.

Now there is very obviously some cautious optimism about Trump appearing in this forum. I believe this to be natural and genuine in response to the insane nightmare that we faced under a possible Clinton presidency. It is equally obvious that some kind of manipulation campaign is taking advantage of this to undermine the community by sucking it into partisan bickering.

I agree with OP and have been coming here for 8 years ish. It's blatent and I seriously have to question why the mainstream media have jumped on Trump for every tiny made up thing yet given Hillary a free pass ? Why arent we talking about the content of the leaks and the shit Hillary did rather than who leaked what and blaming Russia for bloody everything. Stop calling each other shills and agents it's ridiculous. Instead of having a conversation we're just at each others necks!

Well put, I feel the same way. How is the comment at the top of this chain so highly upvoted? It is literally insulting the entire /r/conspiracy userbase. Something stinks.

A post calling all conspiracy theorists the "dumbest people on the planet" gets 31 upvotes in a subreddit for conspiracy theorists?

Yea, because that's organic and totally makes logical sense. /s

Taken over by Russian trolls? Nice Conspiracy theory MORON!

And the thing is that this is about OUR president elect, not even anyone relating to Putin. Which is strange that there are non-American shills caping for Trump. When there's scandal going on other parts of the world I couldn't give a single fuck about it.

I'm saying what interest do these shills have to defend Trump?

Follow the gold and you'll find who the shills are. So far all I see is good stars on anti Trump and anti Russian posts. What's your reasoning for your claim, besides political bias?

Too bad conspiracy theorists are the dumbest people on the planet.

why the fuck are you here?

To feel morally superior, he's so awesome that he has to venture here to spout specious and poorly backed up claims. While afterwards he can return to his hive mind safe space where they can jerk themselves off over what awesome people they are. Instead of you know, being constructive.

Yup, Russian/Trump shills. Created a post exactly opposite to this, "YES, Trump is a Russian puppet. YES, Russia did hack the elections. YES, Wikileaks is a Russian front organization. Stop falling for the manufactured "MAGA" narrative!".

It appears to be being downvoted to oblivion, despite it having a more conspiracy theory related title like the days of old /u/Cromesett mentioned.

Gee. I wonder why your personal insults weren't allowed when the rule says they aren't.

Lol, banned for stating a conspiracy theory...

Awww what a shame

You probably got banned for breaking subreddit rules and calling people morons because they disagree with you or are intelligent enough to question the powers that be.

Could it be that you are being lied to by MSM, just like before the election?

Obama swore up and down that there was no way someone could hack or rig the election. Now the story has seemed to change because Hillary lost.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cruh2p_Wh_4

This comment is completely un-genuine. Fuck off out of here.

It takes so little critical thinking to see the absolutely massive means, the absolutely massive motive, and the absolutely massive opportunity for Russia to fuck with our system and the rest of the contextual evidence just pours kerosene on the fire. Anyone who can't see the Russian astroturfing around here is neck-deep in their own bias. Even Donald fuckin Trump acknowledged that Russia interfered in the presidential race.

Yeah that's right, the CFR controlled Bilderbergwra who supported Al Qaeda in Syria are innocent angels, but backwards Russia surrounded on all borders by NATO is the mastermind of an evil conspiracy and THEY are the problem. Lurk more

If only it wasn't a conspiracy originating from the people that have been the main conspirators of focus on this sub since like forever. Maybe then it would have some cred.

silly, simplistic point of view. each of these actors has its own goals, and they absolutely would use reality against each other. you think they sit around and just think of lies to manipulate each other, ignoring actual actions?

What's T_D?

/r/The_Donald, just quicker than writing out the whole sub name.

When did this become a safe space for T_D?

It's been going for almost a year already. T_D, /r/altright , and conspiracy are tied together now.

this sub = 400k subs T_D = 300k subs altright = 13k subs

one of these things is not like the other...

Look at this sub's mainpage, the go to t_d and /r/altright. Compare and contrast. See a pattern?

What the hell are you talking about? All Im saying is trying to equate a sub with less than a third of a percent of the subscribers of two others is ridiculous. Alt right has very little presence on reddit, yet posters like you try and equate them with other subs who are some of the most popular on reddit. It's baseless.

they are busy little bees

and /r/europe and /r/sandersforpresident and /r/cossacksforpresident /r/political_revolution the list goes on and on

Basically any sub with a strong dissatisfaction with the establishment.

You are falling for astroturfed lies. The source of this conspiracy is the mainstream media, why are you trusting them to tell the truth? Trump has been criticized here for his stance on Israel, but people can see through the Russian/Trump bullshit.

Because he's a part of the brainwashed majority. He's not here for real knowledge or learning or serious discussion, just here to push how "right" he is because he watches CNN.

Or more likely /u/Pyronic_Chaos is just a shill trying to divide the subreddit. Strange how all these accounts just came around here and he's got hundreds of upvotes. Say PissGate started from one random guy uncovering something then I would say it's worthy of conspiracy, no it didn't, just like 'fake news' it propped up overnight by the scam artists in the mainstream media. Trump may one day be the face of the NWA, but as it stands right now he is the rogue insurgent still fighting off the establishment shills who run WashingtoN, the industrial military complex, and the media.

Glad a middle ground stance (of allowing all discussion) is instantly classed as being shill. How is anything against your narrative FakeNews? Isn't that what the majority of people label conspiracy theories as? You sound like a Russian/Trump shill bent on covering this up. Get your one sided views out of here, since it's obvious your mind is closed.

he is the rogue insurgent still fighting off the establishment shills who run WashingtoN, the industrial military complex, and the media.

LMFAO, holy shit you are a blind sheep.

Looks like a shill, acts like a shill, probably is a shill. Between you calling me 'blind sheep' and taking issue with the rightful labeling of fake news as such proves it. First of all we don't blindly insult eachother here, I also browse UFO subs and no one is that disrespectful. I called you a likely shill because your first comment made you seem like one, and your assumption that we label eachother as sheep when someone disagrees solidified it. Look if you believe that the PissGate story is real despite it beIng profanity reported by mainstream media then browse /r/politics . If you are willing to challenge the government and other things post here. Trump isn't even sworn in yet, everything before that and up until his first 100 days are complete is just politics.

First of all we don't blindly insult eachother here

Or more likely /u/Pyronic_Chaos is just a shill

Holy fuck the irony. I called you a sheep because you're a part of T_D's flock, spouting his narrative.

Look if you believe that the PissGate story is real despite it beIng profanity reported by mainstream media then browse /r/politics

I will browse whatever I please because I am free to. I seldom go to /r/politics as it is usually an echo chamber, the same as T_D.

If you are willing to challenge the government and other things post here.

That's what I did you ignoramus. OP was blindly believing both Trump and Russia, so I posted why should I trust him and not question him? He is the fucking system, Russia is the establishment. I was questioning, and you think I'm a shill because of that? Fuck off.

Trump isn't even sworn in yet, everything before that and up until his first 100 days are complete is just politics.

Doesn't matter in the slightest if he's in office yet or not, he's a part of the establishment and I will criticize and theorize and question everything the slimy bully says/does.

Doesn't matter in the slightest if he's in office yet or not, he's a part of the establishment and I will criticize and theorize and question everything the slimy bully says/does.

You gave it away right there. You have no basis for conspiracies, you simply hate Trump so much you will believe anything to forge a conspiracy. Look the bigger question is why would the mainstream media push a unvetted fake claim through the airwaves? Not everyone believes Trump or Russia, as I said many have criticized Trump for being pro Israel. The people here haven't been taking the government, even during Crimea they were saying the coup against yanucovich in Ukraine was by the US (which we now know it was). The difference with Trump is that he is at war with the industrial military complex, the intelligence agencies, the media, which for years has been posted here because of their lies. Just because one time the mainstream media decides to manufacture a conspiracy people aren't gonna blindly believe it.

You gave it away right there. You have no basis for conspiracies, you simply hate Trump so much you will believe anything to forge a conspiracy.

You can't read, can you? He's a part of the establishment.

Look the bigger question is why would the mainstream media push a unvetted fake claim through the airwaves?

To get views? It's Buzzfeed. They're following the same M.O. that Trump used in his campaign. Who cares if it's true or not? Throw it out there and get the clicks! You're blind to the media's tactics, do you even see past your TV screen?

The difference with Trump is that he is at war with the industrial military complex, the intelligence agencies, the media, which for years has been posted here because of their lies.

Trump only opposes media that opposes him. For fuck's sake he's calling for a nuclear arms race, he's not against the complex or agencies, he was praising them just a few weeks ago! Memory of a goldfish? He's not 'at war' with anything except his own mind. Also, quit using the media's buzzwords, 'at war with (blank)', you sound like Fox news.

Just because one time the mainstream media decides to manufacture a conspiracy people aren't gonna blindly believe it.

This is a subreddit for conspiracies, regardless of your agenda. You just admitted it was a conspiracy, so why are you trying to censor it? Doesn't fit your agenda?

You can't read, can you? He's a part of the establishment

I've seen people try to claim this and they are rightly mocked. If he was part of the establishment why is the media trying to crucify him for every little thing? To defend Obama they killed Romneys chances with a single comment and they ignored every single scandal about him, even when he first start e, Obamacare was widely praised by the press and ignored all evidence of future increases and rate hikes. That is being part of the establishment.

To get views? It's Buzzfeed. They're following the same M.O. that Trump used in his campaign. Who cares if it's true or not? Throw it out there and get the clicks! You're blind to the media's tactics, do you even see past your TV screen

If I was blind to the medias tactics I would say 'hey look they gave me permission to speculate about this conspiracy. I believe it' like you appear to be doing. They can profit off clicks sure, I don't click on their articles and I will erode their trust by continuing to spread the truth about the conglomerate media.

Trump only opposes media that opposes him

I followed the race from the start. Fox used to be his arch enemy and the first debates were 100% anti-Trump. He's using them, I think if push comes to shove he will dump them. It is a mutual relationship. I also never denied that fox was biased, they are. But the difference with fox is that it 1 tainted network vs a bunch of others which for some reason people believe are credible. If regular media wasn't so pro-neocon/neoliberal establishment fox wouldn't have a reason to exist

This is a subreddit for conspiracies, regardless of your agenda. You just admitted it was a conspiracy, so why are you trying to censor it?

Find a conspiracy with evidence that doesn't lead back the political realm.

I've seen people try to claim this and they are rightly mocked.

Is the President a part of the govt? Yes? He's establishment.

If he was part of the establishment why is the media trying to crucify him for every little thing?

Because it's what generates clicks! They pounce on everything so they can be the first click.

I followed the race from the start. Fox used to be his arch enemy and the first debates were 100% anti-Trump. He's using them, I think if push comes to shove he will dump them. It is a mutual relationship. I also never denied that fox was biased, they are. But the difference with fox is that it 1 tainted network vs a bunch of others which for some reason people believe are credible. If regular media wasn't so pro-neocon/neoliberal establishment fox wouldn't have a reason to exist

Criticality of someone isn't anti-someone, but Trump has never been pro-media unless it has suited his needs.

Find a conspiracy with evidence that doesn't lead back the political realm. It's not a real conspiracy and was rightly called as a hoax very early on.

Why would I do that? You've completely missed my point. You're just like the MSM calling a conspiracy theory a hoax. Push it aside because it doesn't fit your narrative!

Glad a middle ground stance (of allowing all discussion) is instantly classed as being brainwashed.

So nice how quick you are to dismiss another person's conspiracy theory when it doesn't fit your agenda. Are you a Russian/Trump shill?

Are you a "insert political opponent person here" shill? You cerently are talking like one

When did this become a safe space for T_D?

Anytime you come into r/conspiracy spouting the federal government's narrative, expect to be shot down.

it doesn't matter whether it is liberal, conservative, LGBTQ, or Ross Perot.

Don't come in here parroting the government's fables.

Trump is government. He's Wall Street. He's the fucking president-elect and shouldn't be immune to conspiracy even if the CIA and or FBI comment on the issue.

I'm open to discussions on the topic, but not when the only sources are liars such as buzzfeed and Washington Post. Get some independent sources that aren't fake news, and we'd be happy to engage you and everyone else on the CTR team.

Whats your opinion on pizzagate? Is it valid to be discussed?

of course it should be discussed. every conspiracy should be discussed until we find concrete evidence proving or disproving it.

it should be discussed 100%, but people were going insane and political about it and harassing others in real life... 95% of pizzagaters were batshit crazy awkward fucks. that does not mean the theory itself should be dismissed at all. just the fuckers that keep bothering others about it.

however its far from being as juicy or substantiated as the conspiracies surrounding trump.

Dude, this place used to be fun to come to and read some insane shit. Did I believe any/all of it? No. You wanna know what ISN'T fun? This place being a matter-of-fact Trump depot.

This place is for conspiracy theories. If Trump, the 45th President of the United States (potentially) working with the fucking Russian government isn't the mother of all theories, then I don't know what all of us are doing here.

I get it. To use some of the de-facto /r/the_donald heads in here, there is some salt. There is a ton of salt because fucking Pizzagate got shut down by the media and no one wanted to have fun after Reddit inspired another shit thing to happen in the real world.

If there are conspiracies, post them. If they are real, who gives a shit. Stop becoming babies and calling names and having tantrums because the sub is getting hits from /r/all because THE MOTHER OF ALL CONSPIRACIES is hitting the fan, right now. /rant

Same. Even like 2 years ago I remember r/conspiracy being kind of similar to the rest of Reddit's political sphere: fairly intelligent, thoughtful discussion of government and private sector collusion, occasional far out theories, ideas for how to improve humanity at its core by getting rid of corruption and twisted back room deals.

It was sad to see what's become of it. I hope it can go back to being the more politically neutral, thoughtful sub it once was.

I think this can be extrapolated to Reddit in it's entirety. Yes, CTR has been hard at work, but no one is talking about how big Reddit has become. The influx of new users has been crazy - I feel like Reddit has become mainstream and is on its way out.

I've only been here for two years, and even I can tell that the quality of discussion has dropped significantly. Especially post-election. Reddit is no longer niche; there will be a new platform that will fill the gap left behind.

The rise and fall over it's lifespan is disheartening. Many old timers will refer to the digg influx as when things went downhill but really it's been a slower burn as more and more users flood the site and learn to manipulate votes/create bots. There are still quality posts but they are much fewer and further between.

I'm not at trump supporter. Zero love for the guy.

This is what a coup looks like in America. The difference between trump and pence is pence is 10x worse. The other difference? He will go lockstep with the security state.

We have only bad choices at this point. IMO once the dnc rigged the primary against Bernie we only had bad choices.

Clinton is a slippery snake. Pence knows how to play the game and has a huge machine behind him. Trump is a corrupt idiot who doesn't even know how to hide it. I think a very close analogue to trump is bersculoni from Italy.

I think trump is going down no matter what which is great in theory, but like Iraq, what comes after that?

I don't know, the CIA assassinating the president and George Bush Senior orchestrating a terrorist attack killing thousands of people are pretty gnarly too.

It's a nice conspiracy though because America has been by far the largest supplier of puppet leaders worldwide so to most of the world Russia would be giving America a much needed dose of it's own medicine.

Please show me where Pizzagate was "shut down" by anyone. I don't necessarily believe it myself, but the media has done precisely fuck all in terms of debunking it. Vague references and saying it's debunked doesn't mean any of the corporate whores in the media have ever actually sat down and went through it in the same way as, say, actual journalists like Ben Swann or Abby Martin.

Lmao if you think a story the mainstream media and political establishment push 24/7 qualifies as a conspiracy

GTFO Of here

^ This guy doesn't understand the definition of conspiracy.

(hint: it's not about how widely reported it eventually becomes)

Lmao if you think what the government has been pushing 24/7 for the last 2 months is a conspiracy.

Do you realize what sub you are in? Nothing the government says is trusted here. The fact that shit like what you're posting gets upvoted now totally exposes the whole shill brigade going on here.

The real conspiracy here is why exactly are our intelligence agencies and media are trying to divide this country and smear our President.

The government discovers conspiracies all the time. Again, you don't understand the definition.

Yes, because out of all the conspiracies that have been revealed, it was our trusted government that discovered and revealed them

Oh wait, turns out that's the opposite of reality. Out of all the conspiracies that have been revealed, our government was the culprit behind most of them.

Again, the government's involvement has nothing to do with the definition of a conspiracy.

Isn't it weird that you're so into this subject but you don't even know the definition?

If the US government and mainstream media are pushing something 24/7, it's not a conspiracy, it's made up bullshit

Can you define conspiracy for me? Without looking it up? It's really clear you don't know what it means.

Was Watergate a conspiracy? Did unanimous media coverage of it make it not so/ I hope you can see how silly this is, but I won't hold my breath.

Im just telling you that nothing pushed by our government and media is a legitimate conspiracy.

The government and media are known liars here, in fact, they are the ones behind most conspiracies.

So, when they come out with a bullshit narrative in order to help themselves politically, we're gonna see right through it.

Let me know if you ever figure out that definition, and whether or not watergate was a conspiracy, despite all the media and gov't attention.

let me know if you ever convince people here to believe the us government propaganda narrative.

There are many many narratives, even just within single governments. Some are truer than others.

The black and white thinking you ascribe to is part of the problem. There are tons of instances where government has been used for good in various ways - whether that's helping people or as we're discussing here, trying to uncover the truth. And we can see very clearly that some governments are better in these terms than others (I prefer the american system to the russian one, for instance, despite all its problems).

At the end of the day, the government is the people and the systems they develop to interact with one another. That's it. Obama did a lot of bad, particularly in foreign policy, in my view, but he also did a lot of good, especially at home, though of course not as thoroughly as I'd hope he'd do (I wanted more PWA-type new deal projects like trump advocates for).

Since you're so stubborn about misunderstanding the definition, I'll tell you: a conspiracy is a secret plot to do something wrong or illegal. That's it. They happen in government; they happen outside of government. They happen in business. They happen in churches and in armies and banks and any type of group you can imagine. Sometimes the government finds them out. Sometimes the government finds conspiracies in other parts of the government, believe it or not! Many times it's outside groups and independent citizens that unravel conspiracies, and that's what I think we need more of. Lots of times, it's many of these groups working together! Like, the government appoints independent citizen investigative committees to investigate things, believe it or not!

These days, this sub is chiefly about conspiracy theories that absolve or otherwise advocate for trump. It's obvious and it's stupid and it's doing nothing but hurting people (I also happen to think it's a secret plan).

The thing you are failing to grasp here is that our government has no credibility.

This is the same narrative they've been pushing for 2 months. It just now that its gettting shilled over here too instead of just on /r/politics. Same style of posts and everything.

Anyone who's kept up with this shit knows that the real conspiracy theory is the intelligence community colluding with media in order to smear a president they disagree with politically and ramp up tensions with a nation they want to go to war with and the millions being spent to astroturf sites like this in an attempt to influence opinions against our President and try to drum up war with Russia.

Again, this isnt a "conspiracy" in the normal sense of the word. Conspiracies dont tend to be government narratives pushed through corporate media 24/7. The fact that you are trying to play off the governemnts propaganda narrative as a legitimate conspiracy is honestly fucking hilarious, because no user here is dumb enough to buy that and you're just wasting your time.

once more, the thing that you are failing to grasp is that "government" is not a monolith

Our intelligence agencies, like you, have no credibility

zing!

Please do. Just back it up with evidence

Thank you kind stranger.

De nada

to any true /r/conspiracy user reddit gold is a meaningless expression

This subreddit is pants on head insane. Pizzagate is totally huge and we should treat that with no skepticism, but this dossier being looked at by intelligence agencies and high ranking officials isn't even worth our time - clearly pure bullshit!

The problem is you're falling victim to the way this new Russian story is being spun. Simply because some sort of troll document was sent in to the FBI, they're "looking at it" now and that's now being considered evidence that the story is credible.

When in reality, it's mostly being peddled by people who are already enemies of trump like McCain, mcmullin, buzzfeed and CNN etc....it just all seems so shallow and silly for you to think it actually matters that those people are "looking at it."

They want it to be true. I assert that it most likely isn't true.

Oh I forgot that Pizzagate was being peddled by allies of Clinton and Podesta. The difference here is the enormous credibility gap between the people behind each investigation.

The gap isn't so much enormous as it is non-existent. There is no "credibility" on either side until they produce hard evidence and facts.

You're incredibly naive and ignorant if you think "intelligence agencies" are worth trusting after decades of utterly scummy behavior. Also, those "high ranking officials" don't unanimously trust those agencies and have routinely brought them to task (look into the CIA's torture investigation) while the agencies lied under oath continuously.

I'd sooner trust gonzo and investigative journalism over any of these murderers and war criminals, not that I even believe in Pizzagate.

This sub has always been conservative from start. Untill it reached front page few times and got a lot of new subs, even quality declined. 2 years ago pretty much 100% of userbase was conservative

I think OP's point is can we stop believing rumors thats are wuite literally unsubstantiated and unverified. And if you want to pose a theory just provide contextual evidence to back it up and i dont think people will give a flying fuck. Its just the complacency and quickness to believe everything the media tells you is the problem at hand.

Yes you're allowed to, but you're an ignorant fool if you believe the supposed evidence brought up. You're a real loon if you think Trump's a russian puppet.

Edit: Gold! Thank you kind stranger.

I agreed with this post, until this, you fucking faggot

your epistemological slip is showing.

the conspiracy isn't about whether you believe trump is a russian operative or not. but that the russian narrative is being used to rush us into WW3, this started at least as long as 3 years ago when i started taking note of the NATO build up and the push for new nuclear subs (on their way) and baby nukes (on their way). we just shipped 4000 tanks to europe...3 years ago we had finally brought our last home. the push to make girls register for the draft began last summer with a bill submitted in the house, it is being resubmitted...why? we aren't in a land war, we have an all volunteer army.

i'm 44, I'm guessing your probablly under 25. you might want to pay more attn to the big picture. you'll be the one bleeding for it.

ps: if you are willing to entertain the trump-russia narrative, then you should know and own that you are implicitly supporting the idea that he is a traitor. the punishment for treachery in the US is death.

i don't care what you believe. i could care less if trump is a russian operative--i'm not willing to play a part in condemning a man to death esp based on the flimsy, sensational shit being advanced as credible that you say i should be willing to consider.

I'm also not willing to play useful idiot in bringing about the end of the world, and right now this russia narrative you and your 624 upvotes say i should consider is fast tracking it.

"if you are willing to entertain the trump-russia narrative, then you should know and own that you are implicitly supporting the idea that he is a traitor. the punishment for treachery in the US is death"

i dont think we should kill a person if we arent sure. I think we should get sure.

Wow til censorship in r/conspiracy is single handedly preventing ww3. You guys crack me up keep it up lol

it's not a conspiracy, it's a contrived media narrative that has been debunked over and over.

Go right ahead, but please provide sources...

whats scary is how much people are flat out denying this conspiracy, while other theories on this sub meet no real resistance? what is special about this conspiracy that it is attracting such vehement denial by those are supposedly open minded to this type of thinking? and the denial is seemingly organized. look at the post histories of the deniers, they are posting anti pissgate threads all over any subs with political bent. And its all they post about.

How is it a conspiracy theory when it's the primary MSM narrative?

Tell me some other cool conspiracies you believe.. 911 was an outside job? Lee Harvey Oswald killed JFK on his own? Yeah your post fits right in here.

Might as well begin your post with "Hello fellow conspiracy theorists..."

Bc that's not a conspiracy. That's the official narrative. Lol

you can't blindly dismiss Russian-Trump

Which makes this soooo confusing. I don't know what the fuck to believe anymore. I try to read everything I can, yet everything is sounds like lies. I always assume anything the MSM says is a lie, so how do I accept that the Russia and Trump this is real?

I can only assume that this is exactly what the "they" want.

Think I'll just go play video games and wait and see what happens.

Very scary times.

Everyone knows /r/conspiracy does NOT give reddit gold. This seems to be happening more and more as CTR and SJW takes over this sub, rather have T_D than those scum.

You can dismiss them when they are untrue or unverifiable. Which is precisely what most of the Russian-Trump allegations are. A whole lot of hot air.

The pro Trump fuckers are trying to take over.

Read this before deciding whether he's innocent.

Songbird McCain is a douche who used his POW status to get into office. He did everything he could not too disclose events in Vietnam.

And trump used his billionaire businessman status to get into office. Fuck off shill.

That's funny.. I thought it was the hacks You seem confused.

For some reason you have it in your head that because a person does 1 thing, he cant also be doing another. The hacks are retarded regardless, whether the russians did it or not it doesnt matter. What matters is what was released showing the democratic party as a bunch of sycophants.

I don't disagree that the DNC fucked themselves. I was saying songbird McCain is a douche who willingly recorded anti american propaganda for the Vietnam war. Then turned around and used his POW status to get into office and screwed POW's who may have still been there by blocking information while in office. You then proceeded to tell me to fuck off.

It doesn't count as willing if you're tortured into it.

Some Vets seem to disagree

Swiftboat veterens for truth.

Im dissapointed in this subreddit for becoming an echo chamber for Trump.

Are you all that easily manipulated?

None of these people are your friends. Clinton or Trump, we are all slaves.

WAKE THE FUCK UP

You sure are, taking marching orders from CNN. Trump doesn't need to be anyones friend, he clearly got himself on the way of the globalists and I rather not see him crucified before he even gets the job.

You must be a Russian shill or a trumpeter, same thing.

See how that goes both ways?

I support Trump, I see no reason to pretend I don't and I never do so.

I think he is the closest we got in a long time to someone who isn't completely under the establishment control. The side effects is that only someone a little crazy would go against the establishment so we get what we get.

What if it's true tho.

I'd be extremely surprised as it makes no sense.

I was making a joke. "What if it's true tho" could be the hover text on the /r/conspiracy tab in your web browser.

Look dude, it's not about "shadow organizations". There are a lot of groups competing for influence, but no single one pulling the strings.

However, there are pervasive ideologies among the elite that amount to a certain groupthink, one of which is that rich people are all wonderful, hard-working sorts and poor people are morally inferior and deserve a sort of punishment. Donald Trump believes this wholeheartedly. His tax plan and his infrastructure plan, and his appointees, will all promote the interests of already-powerful corporations and investors over the average American. However, his Administration will also find scapegoats to witchhunt and punish, usually the weakest and most marginalized in society, so that your attention will be diverted.

The fact that this sub bends over backwards to justify him packing his cabinet with Goldman Sachs members, after raking Hillary over the coals for her connections, shows how twisted into cognitive bias y'all are.

Trump is definitely a loose cannon, but if you think he's taking it to the elite while simultaneously packing his cabinet with bankers, CEOs and billionaires, you're nothing more than a useful idiot.

I completely disagree with you. What I perceive as dangerous to western civilization and western culture is what happening in Europe. A creation of a super state is my worst nightmare.

I like a lot of the things Trump is pushing for and I think the US could settle the example for the word. The left completely freaking out and attempting to sabotage Trump's administration alone is enough reason to support him at least until he does something that can justify going against him.

I think the US, securing its boarders, pushing for trade deal that favor them, not having a heavy hand internationally, are all good things. So far Trump is doing much better than expected.

I think we are way beyond the stupidity that is capitalism vrs marxism, the real battle being waged is for control of the people be it by the corporations that want to keep control of the government or the government that want to increase its control of the people.

I'm curious, what's your solution? I've been subscribed to this subreddit since I created my account. So often people here only want to jump when the prefect solution presents itself, no sooner. The fact of the matter is, waiting for such a solution will take too long. The Trump solution isn't prefect, but it's what we have currently and the only one we've had in a while. You spout the typical "Wake up!" rhetoric and continue to cry and not act, but people are as woke as ever, now is the time to act.

You think I continue to cry and not act? What evidence do you have of that? I'm very much involved with my community and local politics, I'm doing what I can in the real world. Don't make assumptions.

Also what do you mean by "prefect"?

I didn't mean you specifically, I'm generalizing. I meant perfect, swipe chose prefect. I'm still curious of your solution.

I see.

All I am asking is for people to be weary of their leaders during this time. Don't blindly follow any institution or person. If that makes sense.

I agree 100%. People do need to remember that it is them who decides their fate; we live in a republic (supposedly), so we need to be watching our leaders' every moves. No one likes to doubt or be wrong when it comes to trusting a leader. A large issue is that we very much ridicule people who are wrong, our egos can't let a good brag go to waste. This leads people on the other side to be arrogant when supporting a leader or institution and unaccepting of any criticism which is dangerous and divisive. I'm a Trump supporter, I don't like criticism of him, I don't want to be wrong; but I have to remind myself that all government officials should be held to the highest of standards. I just wish everyone from both aisles would be reasonable.

I wish more people were like you my friend. Glad we could have some good conversation here.

Much love your way, fellow human.

Not all, just most.

I personally think trump is a moron and Russia is evil, but that doesn't make the pissgate allegations true. Anyone with a shred of critical thinking realized that "dossier" was fake the moment they could smell it.

Why are you 100% sure that it is fake? How about you dont just insult and dismiss and instead argue your point.

The burden of proof lies on the accuser, not the accused. When we see some evidence more than just a person writing a document then we'll talk.

holy shit. maybe read the url once again, you seem to have forgotten.

we are only allowed to talk about conspiracy theories once they are fully proven?

the docs have been in the hands of top journalists and intelligence agencies... they have been in contact with the source. this is worth talking about already, no need to dismiss it entirely and insult everyone who wants to talk about it for a moment. this is news from yesterday, not pizzashit symbolism from months ago.

we are only allowed to talk about conspiracy theories once they are fully proven?

You're moving the goal posts. I never said anything of the sort. I said when we some some evidence, as in ANY evidence at all. So far this is just an unsubstantiated accusation. I could say that Chris Farley was killed by the Illuminati because he had information that the Earth was flat, and the burden of proof would lie on me. Until any evidence is provided it's bullshit. You're allowed to talk about anything you want, but I don't have to believe something just because you said so. Part of studying conspiracy theories is learning to be critical. You shouldn't believe everything your told just because it's a conspiracy, just as you shouldn't immediately discount a conspiracy.

the docs have been in the hands of top journalists and intelligence agencies.

Buzzfeed are top journalists to you? Plenty of journalists were offered this story and declined because it's bullshit with zero evidence.

this is worth talking about already, no need to dismiss it entirely and insult everyone who wants to talk about it for a moment.

If you want to spend time talking about every single unsubstantiated claim then go right ahead. I am also allowed to call bullshit when I see it. Nobody actually believes this story, not even the people who reported on it. Read the article. They've tried for months to substantiate the claims and couldn't.

Hillary Clinton was friends with the lowly wage slave moreso than ole Trump... yet the Russians convinced us otherwise

What are we supposed to do? Become a echo champer for Hillary Clinton's memos? Promote second Cold War? That's where the memos came from.. It was funded by Anti-Trump Republicans and Hillary Clinton donors and supporters.

You have no proof of that. There is also no proof that its real.

Be careful. Spreading disinfo hurts ALL of us.

But I do have proof, I'm not spreading disinfo.

The raw memos on which the synopsis is based were prepared by the former MI6 agent, who was posted in Russia in the 1990s and now runs a private intelligence gathering firm. His investigations related to Mr. Trump were initially funded by groups and donors supporting Republican opponents of Mr. Trump during the GOP primaries, multiple sources confirmed to CNN. Those sources also said that once Mr. Trump became the nominee, further investigation was funded by groups and donors supporting Hillary Clinton. Source

Hillary Clinton and the left has been itching for a War with Russia.

Same with John McCain which was the person who handed the Memos to the FBI. He's not a fan of Russia either.

I'd like to see the people of the USA respond to a poll which tells us which they think is more important: freedom or security.

Why would the establishment start a war that Trump will take over??? Trump is tptb. Don't let them make us choose sides on an issue that is not linear.

This is me doing my best impression of a democrat:

RUSSSSSIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIA IS BADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD OKAY!???

This is my usual conversation with someone who is buying into the narrative.

How did Russia hack the election? "Russia hacked into the DNC's emails!"

And how did they use that to hack the election? "They released it to the public!"

So what does email belonging to the DNC have to do with "hacking" the election? "Well that was private information!"

So even if what you say is correct, they didn't "hack" the election. They provide information about corruption to the American people who decided the OompaLoompa was a better fit than your candidate. Am I understanding you correctly? incoming bullshit about how it's more complicated than that.

I'm not following, could you please be more specific? (forcing them away from slogans and other propaganda bullshit) *You're obviously a Nazi/White Supremacist!

Sir/Ma'am, I'm a jew. Runs back to Tumblr.

I'll have the conversation with you.

Russia hacked our political parties and selectively released materials, then encouraged the media using shill accounts to frame "politics as usual" as corruption.

Doing that, they gave the public the mistaken impression that one side was corrupt, and the other side was not.

The [at the time] head of the Democratic National Committee stated that another candidate with a significant challenge to Clinton would dismiss him with "Not be the candidate." Then, only after the leak the DNC forces her to resign, she is immediately given a chairman position in the Clinton Campaign.

The Clinton Campaign has been shown to have an authority over MSNBC, CNN, BBC, The Guardian and numerous other organizations with the exception of Fox News, who's most popular employee, Megyn Kelly, was in a constant battle with Trump over his rhetoric and childish behavior. What "media" did this abomination of our electoral system as reporting on the evidence? I do remember CNN reporting that the public could be breaking the law by viewing these emails.

Repeatedly they played up Clinton's advantage throughout the primaries through superdelegates where Sanders actually won states and still received less pledge delegates than Clinton because of this subversion of democracy. Then after the election she literally sobbed because of the same concept that allowed her to dominate the primaries had lost her the election.

Clinton continually, whether intentional or not aligned herself with the outrage culture pushing her gender rather than the issues which is why Bernie Sanders was so popular. Right until the very end she seemingly focused on issues being second to her gender where the true feminist such as myself didn't give a flying fuck.

Most of your comment is really just criticism of Clinton's political stance and influence, rather than specific allegations of corruption. Sifting through that with a point by point rebuttle would be pretty tedious.

So I'll focus on the collusion with the DNC. Sanders was a party outsider, who only registered to the DNC so he could become president.

The two party system is something that we need to get rid of, but enforcing it does not represent a level of corruption or misbehavior beyond what is expected from American politics.

Highlighting that behavior for only one side is misrepresenting the political climate.

It's like trying to choose between a sushi restaurant and an Indian restaurant, and the local fisherman has posted the food safety information for the Indian restaurant all over town.

We have no reason to believe one is better than the other, and the person informing us has a bias.

Quick analogy before the drive home. Clinton is the Wal-Mart of politics.

Providing people the chance to see the bullshit.

Really unfortunate that you cannot see yours.

I thought terrorist were the bad guys, but Obama/Clinton seem to have a friends with benefits relationship with ISIS. I need a scorecard to keep track. Also how about the Chinese, seems like hollywood loves them lately.

Unverified accusation.

Yes, trust your new masters, they would never lie to you

I just don't understand why a guy who said he has a relationship with putin (https://twitter.com/ShaunKing/status/819177036056907780) is now adamantly denying it if there is nothing here. It seems like there is a real movement in this forum to push a pro trump agenda because of this

He also today admitted he agrees Russia hacked the Democrats.

If Hillary was denying involvement with a group after she already claimed involvement in.. this sub would be all over it lol.

I'm wondering when r/conspiracy is going to get off Donnie's tiny dick.

Really? Of all the places you could have sourced that video from, you chose Shaun Kings twitter account?

Are you implying that video has been doctored and trump did not say those things?

Nope, I'm outright saying that Shaun King is white.

I have no idea who Shaun king is so if you're making a joke it's going over my head. I found this video today on Reddit and xposted it here because it seems to show trump is lying about not having connections to putin

Shaun King is one of the BLM leaders.

He is a white guy pretending to be black.

It's just, really weird to be linking this hoaxers account to support any argument whatsoever.

What does it have to do with the content of the video? I'm not understanding

You linked to a known hoaxers account.

You could have just linked to youtube.

But you didn't.

Why don't you go search for the video on YouTube then, if that's such an important element for you?

So your point is the video could be doctored? I'm not seeing your point still lol, it seems you're making an issue out of nothing

I didn't say it was doctored.

I said it's weird that you chose to link to a known hoaxers twitter account.

It's weird. Why promote this guys account when you could have just linked the video?

I don't buy the claim that you just "happened" upon this nuts account.

Going through your post history I'm going to not exactly buy this guy is some reviled character but I really have no interest in him or or any further interest into what exactly the implications of posting a video from his twitter is since you've refused to explain it.

Instead this is a big day for you because you get to see that sometimes conspiracies are just in your head.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/5nc5nu/trump_melts_down_on_twitter_are_we_living_in_nazi/dcab7aw/

You see I sometimes browse r/politics. It's not my favorite sub but I feel it's important to get all different sides to the story before making decisions about what's true and what's a lie. I got banned for a post questioning mike pences words about gays which you can find me talking about in my history but I still browse the donald, I've posted on stoptrumpspam, I believe confidently JFK was killed by very important people, some of them our world leaders and I believe that Clinton is corrupted or at least highly corruptible. I lean liberal in my morals like I like health care for all and it should be a woman's choice. My point is I like primary sources and I'm sure you can work my post history to convince yourself I'm a shill in some manner but at the end of the day, I saw a video on Reddit proving trump saying that, watched it on the twitter that was linked, then linked the twitter here.

Is this sufficient to make you mellow out because your posts portray you as someone who is angry about politics. Right or left, the system will always piss you off. And pissed people start looking for things to be angry about and it's a cycle of being angry. Smoke a bowl or grab a banjo but I hope you can see sometimes the rabbit hole doesn't run deep. Idk man just seems like u need to chill

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My posts have all been "mellow".

And factual.

You don't have to go down a rabbit hole to know about this guy.

And here you are, "accidentally" promoting his twitter account.

i know some obama loving liberals that can't accept the russian hacking scenario. The 'spin' is spinning out of control.

Like Trump admitting it today? When will Trump stop helping the media spin an anti Trump anti Russian agenda!!?!!?!?!??!?!?????!!!!!?!!

What do you mean Russia didn't hack the elections? Trump seems to support that Russia was behind the DNC leak now and he doesn't deny that they did it to influence the elections (though he claims they had little/no effect), and is now apparently very concerned with strengthening American cyber security and is making it a priority for the administration and current Republican platform. No one in our gov wants stuff like that to happen regularly from foreign entities, and he was right, a lot of countries try to do those things.

Watching Rubio during the Tillerson confirmation hearing was pretty good too, Tillerson tried to not get backed into a corner for not having crushing sanctions on Russia, but it doesn't appear that is going to be politically feasible. Seems like Trump is going to support a strong US position on Crimea, Ukraine and Georgia while still maybe looking for other avenues the two countries can work together on.

Trump, Obama, both Democratic and Republcian national security intelligence leaders support the idea. They are not, and should not, leak evidence that would undermine future US national cyber security efforts as that is going to be a priority for the incoming Trump administration.

There is no need. Unless you are saying that Trump has become a pawn now and should leak US intelligence sources or technology? He came out as very against those sort of leaks today during his press conference.

plus trump didn't he denies it on twitter

Not in the press conference this morning.

He denies that they had leverage on him. In his recent tweets he has not referenced what he said at today's press conference - where he said Russia hacked the DNC.

Meh, it doesn't particularly matter if you trust them or not. All indications are going to be that foreign policy would be the same either way now.

The US is still going to remain firm on Russian regional aggression, Trump thinks he's going to be better at it than Hillary would have been.

It doesn't seem like Russia is going to get much sanction relief. Which I'm nicely happy about. Have a friend in the Ukraine making this somewhat personal for me.

Also Trump wanting to strengthen US domestic cyber security is a good thing too.

By all accounts it appears Russia wanted to influence US foreign policy and undermine US faith in the democratic process (lol we didn't need any help there), failed, and now is going to be in a worse position than they were before.

What would Trump have to gain by reversing his stance that it wasn't Russia?

Meh, it doesn't particularly matter if you trust them or not. All indications are going to be that foreign policy would be the same either way now.

The US is still going to remain firm on Russian regional aggression, Trump thinks he's going to be better at it than Hillary would have been.

It doesn't seem like Russia is going to get much sanction relief. Which I'm nicely happy about. Have a friend in the Ukraine making this somewhat personal for me.

Also Trump wanting to strengthen US domestic cyber security is a good thing too.

By all accounts it appears Russia wanted to influence US foreign policy and undermine US faith in the democratic process (lol we didn't need any help there), failed, and now is going to be in a worse position than they were before.

What would Trump have to gain by reversing his stance that it wasn't Russia?

Meh, it doesn't particularly matter if you trust them or not. All indications are going to be that foreign policy would be the same either way now.

The US is still going to remain firm on Russian regional aggression, Trump thinks he's going to be better at it than Hillary would have been.

It doesn't seem like Russia is going to get much sanction relief. Which I'm nicely happy about. Have a friend in the Ukraine making this somewhat personal for me.

Also Trump wanting to strengthen US domestic cyber security is a good thing too.

By all accounts it appears Russia wanted to influence US foreign policy and undermine US faith in the democratic process (lol we didn't need any help there), failed, and now is going to be in a worse position than they were before.

What would Trump have to gain by reversing his stance that it wasn't Russia?

It would still be nice to see some sort of proof that it was the Russian government before we start pointing fingers at another superpower. Everyone seemed pretty convinced Iraq had WMDs at the time.

I'm not taking side, but a little skepticism is always a healthy option.

Skepticism is fine, but I wouldn't really call Russia "another superpower." They are a nuclear power, sure, but their GDP is below Korea and falling. Economically, culturally, technologically they aren't particularly relevant anymore. The fall of the soviet satelight states makes them barely relevant. They have resources, but can't compete with low cost countries. They have an impressive nuclear aresonal and a conventional military that is significant, but not economically sustainable long term with how things are going.

If the rest of the West went full cold war again, the country would implode, more or less be able to keep up. And the US does not want a nuclear power completely imploding.

Still, we (the US), aren't going to put up with aggression in places like Ukraine or Crimea anymore. There was a bit of doubt of that before today, but the Tillerson/Trump public comments as well as the Republican/Democratic leadership stances have made it clear that isn't going to happen.

Given that the US has hinted at technology or contacts that greatly undermine Russian cyber threats, I doubt Trump or anyone else is going to give up that lever. It appears protecting the US from future foreign cyber threats is going to be a priority for the Trump administration.

If we were going to go full cold war, I could see maybe needing to release information go justify more strict actions. Or if we were going to back off completely on Russia and Trump kept denying it was Russia, I could see the information being leaked to back Trump into a corner politically.

As it is, the we aren't going to back off on Russian aggression in former Soviet bloc states, and economically their actions there aren't sustainable with the sanctions in place we already have libraries worth of information out there as to why the US should continue its current actions. No one believes Russian soldiers were "on vacation," lol.

If you don't trust Trump, why are you so convinced that he is innocent in all of this?

If you don't trust the Kremlin, why are you so certain they had nothing to do with any of this?

Trump question the story of 9/11 when it happen. Now he doesn't. This should tell you what you need to know. Schumer has said the intelligence community "...have 6 ways from Sunday at getting back at you." This should also tell you why Trump has accepted the intel he has been given.

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-russia-election-related-hacking-2017-1

You might be living in a media bubble since you haven't seen this yet.

Trump admitted they did today. Oops.

Actually no I don't. You will believe whatever you want. U.S. intelligence, now Trump and you still deny it. Amazing.

"As far as hacking, I think it was Russia,” the president-elect said at a highly-anticipated press conference in New York, his first since last July.

Who has to say it for you to believe it? Literally everyone has said it at this point. Jesus dude. But run along with that real hard hitting evidence and no victims of pizzagate.

No he didn't. He was speaking hypothetically, if you actually watched the press conference. Nice try.

Hahahhaha he didn't say it hypothetically. He literally says he thinks it's was Russia:

"As far as hacking, I think it was Russia,” the president-elect said at a highly-anticipated press conference in New York, his first since last July.

With video of Trump saying it. Soooooooo yeah, Trump's admitted it.

Man you guys are real butthurt you're standing there all alone still doing his bidding.

lol Politico, a regular bastion of unbiased journalism, taking quotes out of context. Who would have thought?

IT LITERALLY HAS A VIDEO OF TRUMP SAYING IT.

What did he admit?

Russia hacked the DNC.

Right he admits that he thinks that. Correct me if I'm wrong, but there has yet to be any evidence presented, let alone undoubtable truth.

If we have a Russian contact working with the CIA that happens to be very close to Putin, do you really think they're going to announce it to appease some Redditors?

Our intelligence agencies concluded they did. All of them. Congress has accepted those findings. Now Trump has. The one person who adamantly claimed it wasn't true has now said he believes it.

Pro Trump crowd? "But we demand to see the classified reports meticulously explaining how they know"

Lol you can't make this shit up.

All I'm sayin' is it reminds me of the WMDs.

You're saying it's fact, I'm saying we don't know. I personally won't take sides and defend someone else's narrative.

Lol, you think Trump is gearing up for war with Russia by saying Russia hacked the DNC?

Russian hacking isn't WMDs, Trump isn't going to go go war with Russia like Bush did with Iraq.

It's just the beginning. But nevermind. Oh where did this sub gone?

Ohhh so you believe Bush. Weird, the documents have been declassified, you can read an analysis here and here.

Sure, they make mistakes but we have all of intelligence agencies concluding it's very likely.

But trust Trump. Until Trump admits it. Then trust Putin. Then realize your political agenda is a bunch of horseshit.

Just like hip hop this sub is dead

I actually like new hip hop. It wasn't look good for a bit but I think it made a comeback and this sub will too.

James Clapper, head of National Intelligence, has stated in his resignation speech on C-Span that they don't know when or how WikiLeaks obtained the emails. Podesta had also fell for a childish gmail phishing scam and also lost his phone. Intel agencies were not realy claiming it was Russia, but the MSM news keeps on repeating that narrative with no credible proof.

Credible proof that you know of. Again, they aren't going to tell they have a contact who regularly talks to Putin. But they have credible enough information for every agency to conclude Russia did it. Credible enough for Trump to do a 180 on his staunch defiance from 2 weeks ago.

But they have credible enough information for every agency to conclude Russia did it. Credible enough for Trump to do a 180 on his staunch defiance from 2 weeks ago.

You act like America and its intel agencies and POTUSs and PEOTUS are not corrupt and assbackwards like the many in those positions before them...

Take a look at these:

EXPOSED: John Podesta leaked the Podesta emails to Wikileaks: http://theduran.com/exposed-john-podesta-leaked-the-podesta-emails-to-wikileaks/

Ben SwannReality Check: 5 Problems with CIA Claim That Russia Hacked DNC/Podesta emails... this is a Reality Check you won't see anywhere else: https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1301123713285909/

Insiders and whistleblowers claiming the emails were leaked from own intelligence agencies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kvWSz5LM

www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-22/nsa-whistleblower-us-intelligence-worker-likely-behind-dnc-leaks-not-russia

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/10/cia-concludes-russia-interfered-to-help-trump-win-election-report?CMP=share_btn_tw

Checked your post history, you're not only a Russian sympathizer you clearly despise America.

Just because you post it twice doesn't mean I'm going to read any of your Russian propaganda.

I'm not a Russian sympathizer, I'm pro truth. Also, this is not Russian propaganda...

Hahahahahahaha I did just read the headline - EXPOSED: John Podesta leaked the Podesta emails to Wikileaks.

Man you people are nuts.

You obviously failed to actually read the article... Condemnation without investigation is the height of ignorance.

I'm not the one labeling everything I don't agree with as "Russian propaganda". How's that MSM Kool-Aid?

Lololol and it gets better. From your own source. Man, Putin needs to give you guys more breaks.

["A secret CIA assessment found that Russian operatives covertly interfered in the election campaign in an attempt to ensure the Republican candidate’s victory, the Washington Post reported, citing officials briefed on the matter.

A separate report in the New York Times said intelligence officials had a “high confidence” that Russia was involved in hacking related to the election.

The claims immediately drew a stinging rebuke from the president-elect’s transition team, which said in a statement: “These are the same people that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.”](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/10/cia-concludes-russia-interfered-to-help-trump-win-election-report?CMP=share_btn_tw)

Trump admitted this week it was Russia who hacked the DNC.

Nice try Russian anti U.S. team.

Lol, yeah, I'm OBVIOUSLY a fucking Russian shill, yet you call me "nuts"... LOL

Right. You're a true American loving patriot that conveniently ignores the significant number of Trump connections to Russia. It's wayyyyy more likely all of Congress, our intelligence agencies, and leaders are in on some grand conspiracy to discredit Russia than it is Trump stands to personally gain from being pro Russia.

But a Democrat mentions ordering pizza in an email and holy shit he's using secret code to kidnap kids.

Get real, traitor.

why didn't FBI even look at DNC's servers?

James Clapper, head of National Intelligence, has stated in his resignation speech on C-Span that they don't know when or how WikiLeaks obtained the emails. Podesta had also fell for a childish gmail phishing scam and also lost his phone. Intel agencies were not realy claiming it was Russia, but the MSM news keeps on repeating that narrative with no credible proof.

I still don't believe that Russia hacked the DNC nor Podesta due to no concrete evidence yet provided. However, I am curious as to why Trump is agreeing with MSM that Russia may indeed have hacked these targets.

He admitted they did today because, well, they did. You know, basically what everyone has been saying for months

No tangible proof has been submitted that they did. If Trump was privy to more intel that proves with 100% certainty that they did hack then I agree that this is possible. Reporters and every day citizens have no tangible proof that they did indeed hack. So do tell me why you are so confident in this claim?

Enough proof has been given to Trump, who's adamantly denied they were involved.

Good enough for me.

But again, literally even TRUMP accepting it isn't enough for you. As I said before, you'll believe what you want.

Again, you'll believe what you want. Literally Trump admitted it and you can't. Hahahahahaha. Amazing.

You admit you trust Trump's judgement, since no proof has ever been giving to the public.

I trust the intelligence communities. It becomes undeniable when the one person who adamantly denied Russia hacked the DNC admits it.

Have you read the intelligence reports? I have and I'm also in the well educated in the IT field. They have presented no evidence to date, just speculation and hand waving. Until recently, the intelligence agencies didn't even plainly say Russia hacked anything; it was all weasel words and CNN/NY Times publishing unofficial opinions of unnamed "administrative officials." Now they've came out with direct accusations finally, after CNN/NY Times/WaPo had been reporting it for a month or more. They've released a report outlining two security breaches and nonsensical speculations as to who did them. They didn't even directly investigate the breaches, but relied on a 3rd party security team's investigation. Then they went on about how Russia Today's criticizing the US's two party system, its pitfalls, and on US police brutality, was equal to "Russia hacking the election". Just empty slandering before inauguration. Funny when it is anti-Trump coming from all main stream media, instead of anti-Obama nonsense coming from mostly just Fox News.

Trump is all knowing and holy until he shits on your conspiracy parade.

That's his opinion and not credible evidence.

If the CIA has an informant that works daily with Putin, they aren't going to tell you that.

But we know 2 weeks ago Trump adamantly denied Russia was involved. Now he admits it was them. For reasonable people, that's plenty.

A bunch of Russian sympathizers on Reddit don't get to see sensitive information on Russian informants. Sorry.

I'm not a Russian sympathizer, I'm just pro truth.

Take a look at these:

EXPOSED: John Podesta leaked the Podesta emails to Wikileaks: http://theduran.com/exposed-john-podesta-leaked-the-podesta-emails-to-wikileaks/

Ben SwannReality Check: 5 Problems with CIA Claim That Russia Hacked DNC/Podesta emails... this is a Reality Check you won't see anywhere else: https://www.facebook.com/BenSwannRealityCheck/videos/1301123713285909/

Insiders and whistleblowers claiming the emails were leaked from own intelligence agencies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov5kvWSz5LM

www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-22/nsa-whistleblower-us-intelligence-worker-likely-behind-dnc-leaks-not-russia

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/dec/10/cia-concludes-russia-interfered-to-help-trump-win-election-report?CMP=share_btn_tw

Checked your post history, you're not only a Russian sympathizer you clearly despise America.

Just because you post it twice doesn't mean I'm going to read any of your Russian propaganda.

I'm not a Russian sympathizer, I'm pro truth. Also, this is not Russian propaganda...

Enough proof has been given to Trump, who's adamantly denied they were involved.

Good enough for me.

You have as much proof as Assange stating that a DNC insider leaked it and presumed to be killed as a result of releasing it. We all did not see the classified reports. Hence why we are here to speculate on what all we do have. Seems to me you are here to either shill or troll.

Negative, my opinion has the backing of the entire intelligence community and was enough to convince Trump that Russia hacked the DNC.

Think about how delusional you sound. Even your Lord and Savior has accepted the DNC was hacked by Russia but you haven't.

You are asking someone at r/conspiracy to trust the "intelligence community". Think about how delusional this sounds.

People go around saying all kinds of things. Doesn't mean it's true

This sub is a war-zone right now, pro-Trump and anti-Trump narratives battling it out for supremacy. Pretty amazing to watch.

I think they are mutually exclusive, when referring to the two competing narratives: "Trump is being blackmailed/influenced by Russia" and "The evidence Trump is being blackmailed by Russia is based on a piece of 4chan fanfiction erotica". You can be anti-Trump and still think the Russian influence narrative is bullshit, absolutely, but you can't believe both of these narratives simultaneously.

Just FYI, the part of the report which could have been influenced by that 4chan post is a tiny part of the allegations within it, maybe give it a read. Maybe the pee thing is garbage, but there's a lot of other stuff in there.

Well, apart from the fact that this piece of fiction compromises the integrity of the entire "report", it was the highlighted part everyone was talking about. Without it, they can't allege that Russia has blackmail on Trump. How exactly can Russia control him, now that he's won, if that pee thing is garbage?

Here's a thought: why didn't Russia think about letting Clinton win so they could blackmail her? I mean, they did hack her private server, the DNC's server, John Podesta's personal email, and possibly more. Seems like a lot more leverage for blackmail to me, but they just released it to the public for free? I don't buy it!

It's a compilation of allegations, not all of them are likely to be 100% but if ANY are its a problem.

I think that Russia probably find Trump with his fragile ego much easier to potentially influence. Clinton, in the end, just didn't have all that much in the emails, that's why they needed to inflate the public opinion about what 'could' be in there during the campaign. They can make her look bad, but once in office, they don't have crap. On the other hand, Trump explodes at the slightest provocation against his self image.

Clinton, in the end, just didn't have all that much in the emails?

What about the 33,000 that she illegally deleted? You don't think there's a chance that Russia hacked her server and took those emails before she deleted them? Clearly she was hiding something, that sounds like a treasure trove of blackmail to me.

But, clearly, fighting an uphill battle to get Trump, the "pied piper" candidate according to the DNC, elected against all odds so they can control him via blackmail makes so much more sense to Russia. Because Trump is the more easily provoked out of the two. Riiight.

Nothing in that article suggests that a tweet sent to Clinton would send her off on an unhinged rampage like Trump is well known for...

If Russia controls Trump, why would they want to send him off on an unhinged rampage... against Russia?

Who said anything about sending him on a rampage against russia?

Oh, so Russia is going to get him to go on a rampage against other countries... just like Saudi Arabia had us go after Iraq, Libya, and Syria.

And therein lies the crux of the entire matter. The bipartisan political establishment is guilty of everything they are accusing Trump of doing. But their partner was Saudi Arabia. Bush to Obama to Clinton (endorsed by Bush). They've all been Saudi Arabia's lackeys for over a decade.

Saudi Arabia and Russia support opposing sides in Syria. Trump will not support Saudi Arabia, not because he's a Russian lackey, but because it's common fucking sense. It doesn't take a genius to figure out what's going on here. It's all a game.

No, I'm not saying he's going to go on a rampage against any country. I'm saying that he's thin-skinned and easily manipulated. His past twitter rampages are examples of that.

Because they had the ace in the hole: a pee video of some random American who hired hookers to piss in the bed Obama slept in, on the off chance he would run for POTUS and win. Having years of emails proving that a past presidential candidate, who has vowed to run again, who has served as the SoS, wallowing in scandal her entire career, just doesn't compare to pee videos. Always bet on pee videos.

He's run for president before.

So have I. Sadly, Russia's time machine was on the blink so they didn't back me. I was totally a better choice in that other timeline.

Remember your roots.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w211KOQ5BMI

I thoroughly enjoyed the video, but not sure how it relates to current events. Let me guess. Russia is now the machine. Russia pulls the strings?

At 1:03 there is a Trump for Prez sign.

So, if I'm reading you correctly, I should have had a sign and a pee video! In hindsight, I agree. My chances would have been better with both of those, and I had neither.

Are you implying Russia has to have had a time machine to know that Trump is politically active and once ran for president?

No, I'm implying Clinton would have been the better bet. Both in the "likely to win" category as well as the "will this dirt we have be valuable" category.

Shit, if you want a believable conspiracy theory, how 'bout this. Trump is actually the one in control here. He promised to deliver Soros, whom Clinton will not turn over for obvious reasons, and Putin is salivating at the chance.

Hell no. He wanted Trump to gut everything and slide us straight into a full Russian-style oligarchy. Russia stands to make a lot of money and expand their sphere of influence.

oligarchy

You mean a small group of people would exercise continuing control over the country. Kind of like how the Clintons would have had. Complete with the core team held together with the old school Podesta/Soros crowd, that was in control not only in Bills term but also in Obamas, and almost in Hillary's. Yeah, I'm thinking those emails could have been influential in some Uranium deals or something (just conjecture, of course).

So how is Trump more valuable than Clinton in this scenario?

I don't know where to start. Have you seen his cabinet?? Please.

Yes, I've seen his cabinet. I'm asking how they are more valuable than the Clinton scenario. The Clinton scenario has, like, metric fucktons of valuable material that would have made them controllable.

Give me an example.

I'll raise you Rex Tillerson.

How is controlling Rex Tillerson more valuable than controlling Team Clinton?

Detail please.

you... want me to ask the question with more detail?

Ok, so Russia has the Podesta emails (allegedly, but we'll roll with it). Russia also has the pee video (allegedly, but again we'll roll with it). The 2016 campaign is coming up, and they have two options. Option 1, they can groom/back the longshot and use him as a puppet oligarchy. Or option 2, they can usurp control of the standing oligarchy. Either way, they can use the dirt on the other one to torpedo the campaign.

The scenario you have proposed is that they went with option 1. Back/Groom the longshot and use the emails to torpedo Team Clinton.

(I think this is your scenario)

So, I asked, why did they think option 1 was the better option? You answered: his cabinet. Then gave Rex Tillerson as your primary answer.

I'm asking, what is so valuable about Rex Tillerson, that controlling Team Clinton didn't offer?

Yes, but let's be honest: HRC's run against Obama for the Democratic nominatiom m in 2008 was a much more serious run for president than Trump's 2000 run for the minor reform party nomination.

Because they had the ace in the hole: a pee video of some random American who hired hookers to piss in the bed Obama slept in, on the off chance he would run for POTUS and win

Off chance? He ran for president in 2012 and then they groomed him to run. There was no "off chance" that your manchurian candidate will do what you say. That's basically a 100% chance.

I think you mean 2000. You guys are still not explaining how a pee video of the longshot was more valuable than ~8 years of dirty secrets on the "shoe-in".

I doubt there is a pee video to be found. The rest of the dossier explains all there is to know.

The rest of the dossier depends on the existence of blackmail material. That's the pee video, isn't it? Or are you saying there is an as-yet-unreleased bombshell that they are using to blackmail him?

A pee video isn't blackmail in 2017, it's Pornhub material. If it came out, Trump could copyright and sell that shit on his own website and make a million bucks and everyone would praise him for how great a pisser he is. That's never going to be blackmail material again.

The real "blackmail" is going to be videos/recordings/records/etc of Trump and/or associates making quid-pro-quo deals with Russians in exchange for help with the election, and/or for business concerns. That's the stuff the kind of stuff that can put people in prison, and that's what they'd use if they were going to blackmail anyone. That stuff is also going straight into the vault right now, and it'll stay there for a while, 'cause it's too way too hot to use. But, guaranteed, it definitely exists, and someday down the road in Trump's presidency Putin will need a special favor and that's when he'll be quietly reminded of what's in the vault.

The real "blackmail" is going to be videos/recordings/records/etc of Trump and/or associates making quid-pro-quo deals with Russians in exchange for help with the election, and/or for business concerns.

Ok. So, either they already had this material, and Putin forced it. Or Trump sought out those deals thinking he was in control, and Putin played him.

That's definitely a better plot than pee videos. I'm not sure what evidence there is of that, but hey, we're in the right sub I suppose.

The dossier isn't about pee, that's one single line in a 35-page report. The other 34.5 pages contain shit that Putin could easily have detailed information/recordings/videos/papers/etc about and almost any of them could be turned into a criminal case depending on the exact details.

The dossier leads with the pee thing. That's the supposed starting point that the report puts forward as the blackmail material to cause the alleged collusion. The other things in the report are not things that would initiate a controlling position.

So either Russia approached him and said, hey we got this pee video so you're going to be a Manchurian candidate...

Or...

Russia approached him and said... you're just a Manchurian candidate. No reason. Just do it. Or we'll blackmail you by telling everybody you're a Manchurian candidate....

Or...

They blackmailed him with some as yet unknown bombshell.

If you're really pushing that second scenario, you're going to have to point to something in that report that is the initiating action that he can be blackmailed with.

The dossier leads with the pee thing.

Sure looks like it's in order of date. So it leads with the information compiled first. IT's not even the first item nor on the first page.

It mentions they've been contacting him for over 5 years. I doubt this pee incident is what started anything. If it's real at all, just one thing in a long line of things. If I were gonna blackmail him, look at the stuff about his lawyer saying Trump will agree to drop sanctions once in office in exchange for some stake in the national oil company. That's way more heavy hitting than some watersports. Look at them providing intel on the oligarchs in the US in exchange for election help. That's the kind of stuff they're going to use as blackmail.

Plenty of people here looking to kick the sub while it's down for denying this hoax from 4chan after they've been obsessed with the truth of another hoax from 4chan for months now. The difference being that almost no one questioned the legitimacy of Pizzagate, and those same people are questioning this.

Does it look partisan? It sure fucking does.

Thank you for saying this. It gives me hope.

You don't think it's important to dig up dirt on people? This guy's going to be the next president and we should worry about him.

Let's just say his party has been building up ties and financing right wing radical parties in Europe with the intention of destabilizing the EU. Le Pen's party in France received illegally (if I remember correctly) money from Russia and the Austrian right wing party signed an association agreement with the Putins party last year. These are only the ones I know.

He doesn't like that the EU put sanctions on Russia after the fucking disturbing landgrab of Crimea.

but if you're anti trump AND anti bullshit you're called a Russian sympathizer here, it's pathetic honestly

you're called a Russian sympathizer here

Only today while we are brigaded. That isn't normal.

You can be anti-Trump and still think the Russian conspiracies are bullshit.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

This not about being "Pro-Trump", "anti-Russia", "pro-Clinton", etc.

It's is about self-interests and self-preservation. That's it. You, me, Trump, Clinton, Putin, Obama, etc look out for one thing: ourselves. Numero uno. We're all simply out to make ourselves feel better.

If we want to keep a conspiracy discussion/investigation objective, we have to keep this in mind and not turn the discussion into a political witch-hunt or get on one's moral high-horse.

I don't want to discuss these conspiracies here, but it's possible to believe believe that both Putin and America (in addition to many other governments) engage in espionage and election-influencing. That doesn't make me "anti-Putin" or "anti-American", per se. That's just what many governments do. Whether I believe that's a good thing or a bad thing is irrelevant. I'm just looking at the evidence and motives.

I can believe Americans released a bunch of dirt on Putin in the Panama Papers, and Putin released a ton of dirt on Americans through the DNC leaks. That doesn't make me "pro-Clinton" or "pro-Putin". It doesn't require a ton of resources to accomplish. Just a few leaks. Everyone's simply trying to get you on their side. Can you say you don't do the same thing?

I can believe that Assange wanted, and still values, transparency. But he also needed Russia's help to avoid bullshit sexual assault charges from the West. That doesn't mean I think Assange is good or evil. He's just out for himself. He probably did, and is doing, whatever benefits him and what helps him accomplish his goals. Just like you or me.

A conspiracy discussion shouldn't be about sides. It should be about discussing/following what the evidence tells us. Not look for or shun evidence that supports one particular side or pre-conceived notion.

Someone seems remarkably defensive of Russia.

Weird, huh?

rip /r/conspiracy

It's not organic, I promise you. The real /r/conspiracy submitters can see straight through what is happening here.

Go read any conspiracy forum from 2003. They weren't falling for Bush's shit then and the smart ones aren't falling for Trump's shit now.

Or any of the shit from other political figures at the top. They're all out for their own power gains, to fuck 'the people' over, to enrich their donors, etc.

You can't driectly control people's minds (yet) but you sure as shit can see them controlling your emotions, what you view, etc. Which essentially leads them to controlling you. Censorship, flood them with lies, keep the flow of shit up long enough and you'll wear them into a nice sheep like line.

People on the internet were smarter back then

hahaha what do you think of Russia as a conspiracy theorist? Putin kills journalists

Im a lurker here but finally broke my shell today after it being abundantly clear that were being brigaded by /r/politics shills. The complete tonal and narritive shift within 24hrs over a flimsy buzzfeed report has never been more clear.

We are brigaded today. Bad timing for a topic with the T word in it.

Because pizza pedophile rings, government mind control, 9/11 being a complete inside job and the thousands that Hillary killed to cover herself up is soooooo much more believable than Trump being an ally with Russia /s

Seriously though, how does everyone just eat up every single conspiracy as fact with no more than a three paragraph reddit post but when something bad comes out about Trump you guys are so quick to deny it without even giving it a chance. I get that you guys can't trust the media, I can't either, but are you guys seriously gonna trust Donald fuckin' Trump of all people? He'd lie and bomb the masses if he knew he could be king of the ashes, y'all are some stupid mother fuckers for even believing a word out of him.

Yeah actually Russia did hack the election dipshit

by releasing truthful facts showing podesta is corrupt? thanks Russia.

"truthful facts"

Good one Horus_Krishna_5

Yes, cryptographically verified authentic emails, ie truthful facts.

Lol

What "truthful facts" showed podesta was corrupt?

Leak =/= hack Influenced =/= hack

Is social engineering hacking?

Even if it was, would social engineering with the truth still count?

By publishing news article about the faults of a two party system and US police violence? That is what the intelligence report contained, instead of proof of hacking, these actions were referred to as "hacking the election".

Rule 10. No personal attacks. Removed. 1st warning.

What I notice is how quickly people (anti-Trump) jump to the Russian narrative while ignoring that Saudi Arabia has so many politicians in their pockets.

The last three decades (or more) of U.S. policy in the Middle East seems like it was just us doing Saudi Arabia's dirty work.

How many politicians did Trump brag about having in his pocket before running?

This. And we have to re-imagine the entire world order if somehow Russia hacked Canada to hold Clinton Foundation donations for the Urainium One transfer....

Then we totally have to re-examine how or even WHY Russia laundered millions in Clinton Foundation donations to Hillary through Qatar and Saudi Arabia, which means Russia armed ISIS—and then fought ISIS ;-)

Hard shilling to discredit a conspiracy theory, on a conspiracy subreddit? Come on comrades, try a little harder

Rule 10. Removed. 1st warning.

These types of posts aren't new. These are ideas that have been discussed for quite awhile, especially the connection between Wikileaks and Russia. Relevant and interesting post from Conspiracy: As If we Needed Further Proof...

The news that Russia may have some kind of blackmail material on DT and what that means politically is definitely something that should be discussed on Conspiracy. Don't let the sensationalist golden-shower language sidetrack you and make you think it must definitely be fake. This is the kind of stuff that could have far larger implications than just making one political party look good or bad.

Conspiracy is a place where people should be able to post their theories and other people should be able to comment on it without fear of being labeled a shill if their thoughts don't coincide with a specific political agenda. Don't sell out to specific set of truths because you identify as a supporter of one party or another and don't look for truths because you want to support your party lines.

I like this sub, and for everyone who has provided well-thoughtout logical and/or reasonable comments on any prior thread--thank you. I honestly do enjoy reading your comments.

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Weird, even Trump admits Russia was responsible for the hacking...

Trump must a be Hillary shill.

doesn't say that in the article

"As far as hacking, I think it was Russia,” the president-elect said at a highly-anticipated press conference in New York, his first since last July.

With video of Trump saying it. Soooooooo yeah, Trump's admitted it.

You expect to convince a Trump supporter by showing them quotes and ideo evidence? LOL.

"FAKE NEWS! MSM LIES! LOL CNN SHEEPLE"

When the biggest denier that they had anything to do with it finally admits it (Trump) yeah it's true. Takes a lot for Trump to admit he was wrong.

Sorry that doesn't fit your political agenda.

It says so in the first paragraph. They are quoting him directly.

why not just close this sub and move the core user base to /r/the_donald then?

it kind of makes me feel good inside to think of Russia being super evil because it reminds me of what everyone believed when I was a little kid and the cold war was on, it reminds me of better times, riding bikes and santa claus. I have to push the good thoughts out of my head knowing they're false. But I think this might be why so many are eager to believe this.

I member. Can't we just member the good times forever. Member Star Wars, before they ruined it?

I member

member true lies the movie

Only theories that I agree with are allowed!

I'm very disappointed by how far this place has fallen.

Guess I'm unsuscribing now.

Doesn't look like you've ever even participated here anyways.

I just did.

So wait, when it's in plain sight it's no longer a conspiracy or are you saying you only like anti dem stories?

If Trump isn't a Russian puppet, is he a CIA puppet then? He admitted today that Russia hacked the Democrats

He is just a sucker like 90% of the rest of the world.

So I guess this sub also must be a NASA shill because most of us do not believe in flat earth theory. We are also be r/The_Donald 2.0 or Russian Shills because we don't believe in the bullshit of zero evidence collected on Russia hacking/influencing our election. This sub is suppose to be a free thinking forum that doesn't just accept any conspiracy where there is manufactured fake "evidence".

OP is right, these fuckers who have been lying to our faces and getting away with it throughout the years are telling us Russia had any part in our election. Those who believe in this conspiracy that TPTSP are shoving down our throats are very gullible to their lies.

Why can't we be allowed to decide on these matters ourself instead of being told? Isn't that the point of this sub.

Because somewhere, this pesky thing called EVIDENCE is supposed to eventually intrude on our conclusions...

This isnt evidence. this is a guy telling me that these things are 100 percent not true. its telling me to essentially choose a side. bullshit

Uh, sources?

Your edit is worse than your original post

Mainstream: pizzagate isn't real, but pissgate is totally real

We totes wouldn't lie or attempt to manipulate you!

This sounds like the type of post a russian shill would make

Fucking Hillary's fault!

lol

I rather be puppets to Russians than Jews tbh fam cyak blayk

This kind of bullshit happens each and every election cycle, just the names, faces, and locations have been changed. As long as I have been able to vote, each election the losing party always throws a temper tantrum and comes up with bullshit to make the newly elected president look unqualified and tries to get the vote recalled to their favor.

Now, if you think this is far off what happens, look back to Bill the kinds of slander post election, Bush, post election, Obama post election... And compare that with what is happening now.

Now imagine if Hillary won... Can you think of the headlines and slander the Republicans would have done post election? In pretty sure we would be having pages upon pages of this kind of bullshit just the same.

Nothing new.

So the conspiracy is that there is no conspiracy?!

We need to go deeper...

Trump has done nothing wrong ever and he never will at all

Like I don't get why y'all are even trying this

We can tell this place turned into /r/politics instantly. You're not fooling anyone.

You just expect us to believe that this sub organically turned from a Pro-Wikileaks place, to a sub that upvotes the US State media propaganda narrative on Wikileaks and Russia?

It's laughable. Why do they think we're here in the first place?

This is the same squad that had the media shilling 24/7 for them and had a 1.5 billion dollar campaign budget and still lost to the star of The Apprentice

No one ever said these people were smart. Lol.

I'm not sure if trumps a Russian age t, but it's a verified fact that WikiLeaks is a Russian front. How is this even debatable at this point. Go read John shindler. Or watch assanges rt show.

Is this the_donald?

Are you people serious? The conspiracy sub is claiming outright that a conspiracy can't be real because reasons?

SERIOUSLY?

Lest we forget that the Wikileaks guy is wanted for rape and he has direct ties to Russia, so they certainly have dirt on him. And OP has no evidence that anything he claims is true. So OP is probably a Russian sympathizer and/or owned bot from the Kremlin.

Wikileaks guy is wanted for rape

That isn't true and the accusations are pretty lame. They've been long ago retracted by the accusers.

has direct ties to Russia,

No, actually this doesn't seem to be true either.

Wikileaks guy is stuck in Ecuadorian embassy because he is wanted for rape and even Trump is admitting Russia's involvement at this point.

Please verify your facts. He is wanted for consensual sex without a condom by a woman who long ago recanted his story.

Trump stating his opinion that Russia interfered with the election, doesn't equate to Wikileaks being anything to do with Russia. It just means he was convinced that Russia Today's negative reporting on the US, its two party system and US police brutality, was as good as hacking (social engineering).

no evidence

r/conspiracy

pick one

i love how delusionally up your own asses everyone on this sub is, great entertainment

everyone is involved in a conspiracy except the dude you like

downvotes welcome dipshits

Rule 10. Removed. Final warning.

Already unsub don't give a f*** shove it up your ass

Rule 10. Personal attack after final warning. Removed. Banned.

Yeah, only conspiracies here! Nothing factual!

Russia Russia Russia. If it were something else, I might consider it worth really looking into it. But "Be scared because Russia" is old and tired. I don't buy it and neither do a lot of other people.

Trump wants to audit the fed and the shills are coming out of the woodwork here to demonize him. This is r/conspiracy right? The creature from Jekyll Island is public enemy number one. 

Honestly they're probably just glad you guys aren't discussing pizzagate.

Trump wants to audit the fed and the shills are coming out of the woodwork here to demonize him. This is r/conspiracy right? The creature from Jekyll Island is public enemy number one.

Honestly they're probably just glad you guys aren't discussing pizzagate.

The evil Russia narrative is a total manufactured hysteria by the Clinton campaign.

Lets be real, as far as the interests of the average American go it's probably fair to consider Russia "evil". There are a very small number of countries on that scale and China is more or less immovable. The US is a direct competitor and Russia's interests are generally contrary to the US's.

That doesn't mean they caused XYZ, but lets not pretend that Russia is a friend. Countries are driven by self-interest and international friendship is something that happens because of mutually beneficial relationships, not the other way around.

Israel would never let Russia determine the outcome of a U.S. presidential election.

Woah now don't be stifling anything, what I would personally love to see is some actual evidence and not just these claims. I'm sure there's something going on but if this level of secrecy is kept up it only hurts their message. They need to be open with what they have specifically and inform the people.

Welcome new users!

so...many...new...users...to..this..sub!

Yep. Russia have always had the United States best interests in mind. Really! Honest! All is well. Nothing to see here.

http://i.imgur.com/Ej9du4B.gif

Who upvotes this shit? Is there obvious Trump brigades or what?

yes

Understood, Boris!

Sad reality is all this manufactured fear has me actually afraid. It seems our government is obsessed with starting a fight with Russia which leads me to believe it is smoke and mirrors to avert the eyes from what they really are doing.

Trump is not a Russian puppet

Then he should release his tax returns and prove everyone wrong. If he has nothing to hide then he should follow in the footsteps of every president since Jimmy Carter, including "weak" Obama and release his damn tax returns. He wont because they are laced with the ties to Russia you seem to believe do not exist.

Russia didn't hack the elections

You should probably tell Trump that.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/11/us/politics/donald-trump-press-conference.html?_r=0

Sorry for posting a libcuck rag like the NY times but I was having trouble finding this on Brietbart. I'm sure they will have an unbiased and factual article on it soon enough. Not they are spinning a narrative or anything...gasp of course they aren't!

Wikileaks is not a Russian front organization

Fair enough. Not concerned at all that someone might have coopted wikileaks? In spite of some really shady shit. Shit that, even just a year or two ago, Asange would not have done. Hell up until just recently the man was assumed possibly dead by a lot of folks.

Manufactured "Evil Russia" narrative

RUSSIANS are not evil, by and large. At least, no more so than anyone else Americans included. But Putin, my friend, is not a "good guy" anymore than Obama is; and depending on who you ask may in fact be objectively more "evil".

-Putin has used criminal actions to keep himself in power: Russian apartment bombings for one, political assassinations, and persecution of any dissenters.

-He's changed Russia's political system and government structure to benefit his personal interests and to ensure that he could stay in power. So much so that there is a word for it: Putinism

-He is a war monger. Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine and annexation of Crimea.

So if the "narrative" we are being fed is that Russia isn't the bastion of free speech socioeconomic high water mark standard against which the rest of the world should be compared then that would be correct.

But if you want to push the narrative that Russia is just peachy and everyone there absolutely loves Putin then maybe you should check your facts for yourself, before wholesale buying into what ever bullshit lies Trump and the Alt-Right are spreading these days.

Unless you have definitive evidence of all of those claims to be false then stop telling people what to think and let them form their own opinions based on cold hard facts.

wow a clear shill post at the top of this subreddit, telling people what to believe

Rule 10. Removed. 1st warning.

Oh. This isn't a sarcastic post. HOLY SHIT. Every fucking thing you said IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY! Jesus Christ.....

Rule 6. Removed.

Really? That's insane.

But yeah.. Pizzagate is totally a thing.

And of course take as truth anything that this subreddit, that has become a pro-trump front, says

Rule 10. Removed. Final warning.

You new folks do realize trump literally has to say the intelligence report is correct because the report was made to describe russian propaganda efforts.

And yes he has to agree with the intelligence report because all 17 intelligence agencies had to take Crowdstrike's word for it that it was the russians. None of them were allowed access to forensics on the DNC server.

However there is proof that more than just Russia accessed Hillary's private email server (Where podesta emails come from and more). Proof that MULTIPLE state-actors accessed that information and saw it. Information that went from confidential to fucking SAP LEVEL! (above top secret).

Please get the facts straight okay. They had to make this intelligence report based on the information they were given. Noone can deny russia uses propaganda. And if you only have crowdstrike's report to go off of... you can't say anyone else did it because it's the only piece of tech evidence..

DOES THAT NOT RAISE FLAGS FOR YOU PEOPLE?? CAN YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT IS FUCKING SHADY WEIRD AND SUSPICIOUS AS FUCK?

Surprised this post got past the shills. Oh, here they are.

i disagree with you therefore i am a shill

Trump will be impeached by summer. This has always been the plan for the establishment republicans. All hail president Pence.

Trump's so dumb tho.

These narratives are only conjured up by the Clinton people /: Clinton sure is a sore loser.

LMAO the same assholes who used to come to r/conspiracy ONLY to make fun of how gullible we "tin-foil hats" were, are now making fun of us for not believing their obvious bullshit.

Yes, Russia conspiracy believers, keep believing whatever the government tells you. The fact that you believe what they say so much despite so many years of incompetence shows how stupid you guys are.

Hello, I'm a russia-trump believer! I believe whatever the government says, especially after the election! I also don't have the mental capacity to think for myself and actually research what is going on!

John McCain thought the dossier was important enough to share with the FBI, why don't you?

Have you read the report? It's making some really big big claims with absolutely nothing to provide evidence for it. Their basis of evidence required is

Source A overheard an official talking about the effect of the leaks on clinton. But taking that into mind look how it is written.. The beginning looks like it was in a different language and then was google translated. The grammar is totally fucking off. And then near the end it is just fine perfect american english.

FSB Claims it has tapes of trump in whore houses, and specifically a tape of trump ordering women to pee on the bed the obama's slept on. That sounds like a trump thing to do I kind of believe that.

What I don't believe 100% is the real WHY behind it, you know? The motive of it all.. I tend to think trump at 70 years old didn't campaign for 20 hours a day everyday because he was just power hungry. I believe he really wants to eliminate the pedo's. And I think they threatened him in the presidential race early on, and he didn't like that. Now he's pissed and wants to take them down and amass wealth and fame while doing it.

He knew about them before and probably got disgusted as the farther along he got in the race the more he found out. Trump is no saint, has business ties in russia sure. He has done real estate deals in ST. Pete and he went to see whores. And he did a trump move and disgraced an obama bed.(Probably needed to burn it anyway)

This still pale's in comparison to what hillary has done with what we have just seen in the fbi released files. I don't think trump is planning to hand USA over to russia.. you would have to be a damn fool to think someone greedy like him would do that.

If Hillary can't murder or buy her way to that video there is good authority it doesn't exist. 8 years ago no one was thinking about collecting blackmail on trump to fight him as president so that information wouldn't of been guarded as well.

Are you seriously trying to tell me you believe russia put all the marbles on TRUMP to win the US presidency? Excuse me if I don't believe you. Again you are relying on an argument that you believe 99% of americans are too stupid to know what russian propaganda is, and what american values are.

Yep. Russia have always had the United States best interests in mind. Really! Honest! All is well. Nothing to see here.

http://i.imgur.com/Ej9du4B.gif

You're nuts if you don't think Russia is evil. Murdering journalists? Squashing free speech? Limiting rights? Obscenely wealthy oligarchs that downright stole their fortunes through privatization? If that's not evil, where the hell do you draw your line?

That shit isn't "manufactured" -- it's happening and it seems like some folks are happy to let it happen here.

Stop falling for the manufactured "Evil Russia" narrative!

You're right, there is no evidence that Trump has any involvement with Russia. It's probable that Russia did interfere with our elections, that's not a stretch at all. Like any superpower, they flex their own psyops around the globe. To what extent, who knows? For all we know, they may have favored Clinton.

I am highly skeptical of the dossier that was "leaked." It's nonspecific and presents ZERO evidence, but it still does not excuse Russia's misdeeds one bit.

But like the US, Russia is CORRUPT to the core. I take umbrage with you claiming that "Evil Russia" is a manufactured narrative.

Nobody's buyin that shit, no worries. But maybe it's good to have a post like this every now & then.

This sub is being brigaded by a US shill squad. Every post has one of the top comments by suspicious accounts saying things against the sub.

oh! alright haha I believe you now. I wasn't convinced before but your argument consisted of pure facts and evidence swayed me.

you're full of shit OP. I've seen a lot of shills believe me, and you are the biggest shill I've seen on this sub. sad!

why? because they're on your side of the political spectrum? fuck off

You can pretend all you want, everyone knows the mods deleted the pissgate thread because it's anti-Trump. It has just as much, IF NOT MORE legitimacy than the pizzagate conspiracy but it's deleted and people will call it FAKE even though nothing points towards either direction. If we have to believe McCain, it's kinda really pointing towards the other direction now.... Tell me why I'm wrong.

This is a conspiracy sub, your title is the opposite of what's suppose to be posted. Go back to t_d

And for the hardcore sheep that cant turn off the propaganda box: No, there is still ZERO evidence of anything.

So, tell me so good Russia narrative. I've never heard of good things comming from Russia. Aside from the movie "happy people" which made me kinda want to move to Siberia.

YES, Trump is a Russian puppet. YES, Russia did hack the elections. YES, Wikileaks is a Russian front organization. Stop falling for the manufactured "Good Russia" narrative!

So disapointed to see all these new Russia is good, Trump isn't Russian, Assange isn't Russian posts.

Come on guys.

Yeah guys. /u/Sirbinkai is disappointed in us. Maybe we should stop posting what we believe is true since it disappoints him. He's certainly not trying to manipulate us.

How come Wikileaks is so quick to defend trump? Are we still supposed to believe they're politically neutral?

Maybe not, if they devoted equal energy to criticizing trump or defending his opponents. But they don't.

Has Wikileaks ever released anything or made any statements damaging to Trump?

I guess maybe Trump, thrice-married oligarchic billionaire and international businessman is just squeaky clean...

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about Wikileaks.

It's possible they never got anything on him, but it seems much much more likely that they aren't as impartial as they claim to be. Especially when you look at a case like this, where they don't have any information at all and yet are still loudly defending him. How much more evidence do you guys need?

Uh, yes it is. And "blatant lies" has not been established.

Let's flip it around, why is it so hard for you to believe that Wikileaks is pro-Trump? What actions have they taken that makes you think this is unlikely?

high effort post /s

It's not us locals. It's our new 'friends'.

The irony of a conspiracy forum taking state controlled press at face value is deep deep deep

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I don't think Trump is in with the Russians, however if it's true that the Russian intelligence has blackmail material against Trump, it would make sense to try to get him in office were the opportunity to arise. I'm not saying they were aiming from Trump specifically, I imagine they have dirt on many people.

I have faith stored in Wikileaks. That is what this sub should do. Of course you all are subject to your own conspiracy minds, you already think Assange is compromised.

Ultimately, the disinformation is so deep you have to chose a side. I chose Wikileaks and at the moment Trump.