Just imagine that you were a Russian and asked the same thing about America... no one could give you an answer that just was "good" or "bad" and be able to back it up. We are countries... made up of both good and bad people.

Any Russian asking questions about their electoral process would be arrested and shot.

Or sent off to the Siberian Gulags, which were just put back into operation in the last year or so under Mr. Putin.

Thats the most wrong thing I have ever read.

You live in imagination land.

Really? There are at least FIVE reporters Putin killed or imprisoned in the last couple years. Note that this is just MEDIA. It does not include rivals or regular people.

Putin does NOT tolerate dissent. He murders people who disagree. See this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_journalists_killed_in_Russia#Under_Putin

And you act like that's something America doesn't do?...

Ooookaaayyy . . .

Standing by. Please list the last five journalists America has killed because they disagree with views of the political regime in the USA.

Please share full details. Names of journalists, their disagreement, when they were killed, where they were killed.

I have all those details on Russian journalists who were murdered. Can you provide the same for 'journalists America had killed'?

Thanks

But this is exactly what I'm talking about... these kind of extreme comments but where is the proof that this kind of shit actually happens and that the Russians are as horrid as they want to convince us they are? We're allies with SAUDI ARABIA. Saudi fucking Arabia........ why is this okay but Russia as an ally isn't??

why is this okay but Russia as an ally isn't??

How about not comparing apples to oranges and both are bad? Remember the sham that was the Winter Olympics and all the gay competitors being allienated?

Both counties have horrible human rights records. I can only hope that less strict visa requirements and more open borders would help them homogenize. We require so much to even be able to apply for a visit that only the richest and/or most corrupt make it here.

What was most interesting to me about the recent trump report was that current prime minister and former president Medvedev was pissed about this blackmail, refused to cover it up and was worried about being able to travel here. Sure he's elite and likely corrupt but he's a legit fan of our culture and way of life. He wears blue jeans and his favorite band is Deep Purple. He sees this all as a setback. And it is. Fake or not.

I know they're both bad, and comparing apples to oranges in this case might be useful in trying to get a logical explanation as to why Russia is worse than existing allies, other than the horrible things they do to their citizens. Not saying that stuff is right because obv it's not but we've been allies with SA and other countries with terrible human rights histories for years and people have become so complacent with that that they don't question it anymore. Now that the red scare has returned and the prospect of having Russia as an ally is likely, people want to complain about the dangers but can only tell me that they violate human rights and kill people and that Putin silences dissenters, etc. Nothing has indicated to me that they pose any more of a threat to us than SA, who partially funded Hillary and have a very sketchy and well documented history with America (9/11, ISIS, etc). Anyways long rant over. I'm going to look into the prime minister stuff you mentioned tomorrow...haven't seen anything about that so feel free to share if you have any links!

people have become so complacent with that that they don't question it anymore.

Uh what? People question Saudi Arabia all the time. They are even implicated in the official reports on 9/11 too. They were allowed to fly out when all air traffic was grounded. Who doesn't question them?

Now that the red scare has returned and the prospect of having Russia as an ally is likely, people want to complain about the dangers but can only tell me that they violate human rights and kill people and that Putin silences dissenters, etc.

So.. they don't say our president might be compromised?

We have audio of him admitting his trips to Russia involved women with "no morals."

Nothing has indicated to me that they pose any more of a threat to us than SA,

I'd say that potential sex tapes or other dirty laundry poses more of a threat than Die Antwoord. Wouldn't you?

True. But it isn't just "people" we are talking about. These are FSB and the president of the U.S.

Well he asked about Russia... not about Putin or FSB or anything else... just a country full of people... probably as confused and scared as America is.

Well he asked about Russia... not about Putin or FSB or anything else... just a country

That's weird since it clearly says "ties with Trump" on my page. Is there a glitch on your end?

You can see in my profile I attack obvious shills for either side. I just hate them.

So why are you suddenly astroturfing so hard as to say "not Putin" (who I didn't mention) and not "FSB or anything else... just a country" when Trump is alleged to be under FSB surveillance and control?

I said I like the country. What I don't like is their capacity for corruption for financial and political gain. Again. That's not "people." You're conflating citizenry with the controlling party. Holy deflection mode batman.

I also see "ties with Trump" on my screen.

It is strange.

Some people do not like the questions. I wonder why that would be.

Did you put "ties with Trump" on your screen? Cause that's how I think it got there...

Yes, yes, I did it.

I also happened to capture a screenshot, not that something this damn small matters in the least.

https://imgur.com/a/s4zQP

And as the plot thickens the evidence becomes overwhelming...

The Jesus Lizard - Churl

All I'm trying to say is that Russia is a country full of individual people... people that have suffered hardships at the hands of the elites... people that are corrupt and inflict hardships for their own self gain.... people that want war... people that want peace... in the end... we are all just people... and that's what matters. I'm trying to say that you can't lump the entire population of 6.6 million square miles of humanity into just one pile together and then paint them all with the same brush.

First things first - I'm a girl... Next, I did mention ties with Trump in the title and was hesitant to do so at first because I knew that it might imply some kind of pro-Trump post, but I'm really more interested in knowing about Russia in general so that I can make a determination on why I should be concerned about his ties to Trump. Guess I should have worded it differently. Just a skeptic trying to inform myself as best as possible

Interesting gap in post history followed by concern trolling.

This is so annoying.... I've been a lurker and never really posted until recently. I am the furthest thing from a troll. Stop accusing everyone of being trolls or shills. Sorry I want to actually learn about this and I used to be able to come to this subreddit to read all sides of a conspiracy to better inform myself. Those days are long gone

So since his post is wanting to delve in to a conspiracy that you obviously don't like you imply he's a shill? Seems fair...

Are you fucking serious right now?.... I'm not a troll... there's no conspiracy in his post.... y'all are too far gone on this troll trip and you're pushing loyal followers away because of it. Stop being such fucking Debbie downers

Its not like there's been an influx of shills with an agenda, or two stickied posts or anything right...

I get that but you're pushing loyal followers away with your shill agenda. One of my most recent comments is about possible trolling on 4chan the other day?? And yet you still accuse me of being a shill... People who have been following this subreddit before the election know how things are here. Let CTR and whoever else run their course... the rest of us are here waiting to get back to effective civil discourse about important shit...

Agro concern trolling, that's new.

Can you define the term 'agro concern trolling'? I'm really interested to hear what that means. Seems I've lost my encyclopedia of troll types

http://www.internetslang.com/AGRO-meaning-definition.asp

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll

And it's not like users (like myself that have been readers here for a long time and never felt the need to comment because all discussion was encouraged )who want to talk about more than pizzagate or anything not pro trump or anti hillary saw the deletion of the post the other night as a sign that if they didn't start making sure that their point of view was heard and accepted that this sub would continue to only push one narrative and the mods are ok with that right...

Wingman trolling, also new.

Trolling wingman trolling, also new.

C'mon you can figure that one out. You know the roll a wingman plays right?

My apologies, I totally misunderstood your comment lol I thought you were somehow implying some kind of inception shill chess game. I should probably go to bed now

Late to correct you but it's actually 'her** post...' :) I'm a lady shill

My bad

No worries!

Redditor for 1 month

Wants to accuse someone who's been on the site eight times as long of being a troll/shill? Fucking LOL!! The huevos on this guy. Wow.

You could report him to the admin of the site. That is if you yourself weren't worried about the scrutiny. ;)

Uh huh I'm sure you've figured it out #notreally

None, you get a lot, like metric fuck-ton, of shitty evidence from all sides, and do the best you can.

Certainly not this sub

People want to tell you this is a "Russia is the boogeyman" scare tactic. But I'm someone who loves Russia. The people, the language, the local culture. It's great.

What I don't like is their culture of corruption. If you go there (or actually more Ukraine) you'll see these giant skyscraper buildings that are half built and abandoned. Why? Because contracters pulled out when they realized it was all a scam.

It's such a rat race. And I have nothing against what Trump may or may not have done. He was playing their game. But when we know the source of the leak and he's being vouched for as sober and credible then we may just have to admit we have a conspiracy on our hands.

If you are truly, actually, looking for info on this, I would suggest a few things.

--Set aside your preconceived ideas. Do NOT rule that Hilary is guilty based on anything. Or innocent. Do the same with Trump. Try to start from a blank slate. That is nearly impossible, but at least, please, be open to your ideas being wrong. There are so many things going on and so many people will tell you they have the truth.

I am one of those people. And I may be right and I may be wrong.

--Start at the beginning, which is the FBI and their investigation into Clinton's emails and her private server, which was against the law.

--That would naturally, I think, lead you to Comey and his investigation of Clinton. Comey released pertinent information on Clinton as his investigation continued. Unfortunately for Clinton, Comey released those notes at times that were very bad for Clinton and very good for Trump.

--Comey, at the same time, had information on Trump, the so-called Russian Dossier, which was supposedly developed and researched by a former MI6 agent from British Intel. Comey did not release that information.

A neutral observer would hope that Comey could NOT release the information because it was still being investigated as unverified.

Trump was elected.

Information is still spilling out.

Surely you can use your own brainpower to make your own conclusions at this point.

I have tried to be objective, though I doubt your honesty in asking the OP. If you are genuine, look into all this for yourself.

This may be one of the few most important moments in American history and we all need as many people interested as possible.

Thanks for giving me an idea of where to start. Ill be looking more into this tomorrow

Read Solzhenitsyn? He's pretty critical but, at least he's been there.

I'd be interested if anyone has other suggestions. I'm curious about this as well.

Awesome thanks for the suggestion!

Another thought about this... RT is obviously biased towards Russia but often times, they seem to be a lot more informative and fact based than what we have in America. They also report on global affairs way more than American media and they even have American reporters....quite a few if I'm not mistaken. Are we supposed to believe that all of those Americans are working with Russia to in some kind of evil plot to carry out a regime consolidation between the US and Russia? Would they really want to report news about their own country if they thought it posed some kind of national threat? Why is it so bad for us to be their friends??? I just don't understand and I really want to...

Account deleted? Lol!

I was wondering the same thing...thats shady as fuck...

But she's right about the schill witch hunt. It has gone alil far. Mind you I don't really grasp the situation of the sub.

What is a shrill? From what I could tell it was someone that disagreed with something. I've been here about 6 months maybe, Idk actually, but like her I never had a reason to comment. Recently shit is fuckin fucked up, and reading articles and watching YouTube just isn't cutting it.

So im trying to grasp the situations by interacting.

When pissgate happened I spent most the night aruging on Facebook, then I said fuck it. I came here for answers. Then I realized how big the scope this was. I needed to understand why certain people viewed things the way they did. And not the source/link of why they believe it, but specifically what made them come to that conclusion with the information provided. 2 people can read the same book/article and come away with a completely different perspective of what they read.

I came here to basically get help digesting everything. Immediately I was called a schill, and people were going nuts about the influx of people.

My god reddit is extremely well known for the 'work' its users do, to understand something or a situation. So I almost promise that the influx was the rest of the world wanting to understand what the fuck was going on, and to get a opinion that was not only supported, but also challenged. And to see things from a different angle.

Not to whine but I was basically berated and overly challenged, because I was here and had opposing views to some and not reddit famous, and I was super close to just leaving.

Glad I stayed, but really, the belittling and accusations should stop. I wholeheartedly think it's only hurting the sub, it's reputation, and painting this whole conspiracy scene as nothing but hateful, rude people that will call you out if you disagree.

Sorry for the rant. This post just got me thinking about it again

Trolling wingman trolling, also new.