the masses of shills? people know what's going on, don't let the shills fool you into thinking you're alone.

It had like 17k upvotes on this subreddit of all places. I was shocked to see so many /r/conspiracy subscribers blindly accepting what they were being told by the MSM...

Well, we were watching the huge influx of people reading the sub at that time, it was amazing. Later heard mention the story was grabbed on /r/all and that is what brought them in. But what up voted it up so fast as it doesn't seem the type of link this sub's regulars would up vote readily.

I upvoted it to see what would happened. After months of being called a shill, or CTR and even a pedo for questioning how pizzagate was handled here, I wanted to see what the supposedly unbiased would do once the shoe was on the other foot. Well, as I predicted the reactionaries got very reactionary and starting making their own post to correct the record. They start using the the term "fake news", even after mocking the term for weeks. They then labeled the story as fake, which was new move or a move so rare that I had not noticed before. They then deleted the story all together. They then offered no proof of an influx of new upvoters. All while claiming they knew that they were right to delete to the post because they were with the supposed majority here on /r/conspiracy.

There were violations of rules 1,2,3,4,9,10,11 in the BuzzFeed thread (all a result of astroturfing)

IMO the mods were being mods.

Those rules are constantly violated by this sub. This is the first time since the five years that I frequent this sub that the mods act on it.

In another post a user pointed out very likely spam posters that only post garbage spam and shady links and NONE of those was taken down and one of them was highly upvoted.

I was just giving my opinion. I thought the thread was complete trash and obviously inorganic (astroturfing/brigade).

The mods we doing their best to act on behalf of the r/conspiracy faithful. Again I'll add IMO

The BuzzFeed stuff MIGHT have been garbage, with that I agree, but did you see this: http://www.gq.com/story/howard-stern-donald-trump-russia-brag?mbid=social_twitter

That's evidence. From the man's mouth himself.

BTW: I'm not attacking you, I'm trying to converse with you. I was just saying that this sub constantly has rules violations they can't do this only mod once and a while.

Yeah I saw the GQ article I was under the impression the 2001 date implies that they can't be talking about the time Trump supposedly had hookers piss on Obama's bed or whatever. Is the allegation from the "dossier" that the events took place pre or post 2001?

I don't care who Trump has sex with. I don't even care if he likes getting pissed on if it's true. What I do care about is how the MSM chooses to run full speed with extremely dubious claims that even the intelligence agencies can't verify at all. They have had zero accountability for the repeated character assassinations.

Don't even get me started on John McCain.

No mainstream media outlet "ran with" the claims from the dossier besides Buzzfeed. They reported on the fact that the POTUS and PEOTUS were briefed on it last week, which is true.

Every MSM outlet I've read this week has made it very clear that the claims in the dossier have not been verified.

Okay I see your point. I am exaggerating but the fact that they were even talking about the story like it could possibly be true without verifying anything to do with it is absurd. It's the exact same shit they pulled with the fake sex assault allegations, racism allegations, etc. They KNEW it was BS but chose to talk about it anyway and lead the American people on a wild goose chase.

the fact that they were even talking about the story like it could possibly be true without verifying anything to do with it is absurd.

Elements of it very well could be true. Christopher Steele is a former MI6 agent who blew open the FIFA corruption case, this isn't some crackpot off the street. Nobody "KNOWS" it's BS.

On a slightly related note think about the coverage that grab em by the pussy got versus the video of Hillary passing the fuck out and getting chucked into a van like a side of beef. That shit was ridiculous.

You're losing me now. A presidential nominee on tape claiming that he sexually assaults women is a much bigger deal than a 69 year old woman fainting. There's not a shred of credible evidence that Clinton has any major health issues.

LMAO okay I'm sorry but are you a prude? This sexual assault shit is absolutely absurd. Sexual assault doesn't involve consent. Going in for a kiss isn't sexual assault unless the woman refuses. Do you have the famous proof that even the accusers themselves can't provide. Still waiting on Gloria Allred's bombshell civil case on the matter.

I'm sorry but I'm going to disable inbox reply I am sick of having to explain this shit.

Have a day.

Heh. Sorry I rustled your jimmies by pointing out what the man literally said on tape.

He said verbatim that he kisses women and grabs them by the pussy without asking them first. And multiple women have come forward saying he did exactly that.

The fact that you deny the weight of that evidence but are perfectly willing to believe that Hillary Clinton has some kind of secret neurological disorder is why nobody takes people like you seriously.

here let me be the first to express the opinion that you're both right about the other, both of you are in denial of the ridiculously obvious

No mainstream media outlet "ran with" the claims from the dossier besides Buzzfeed. They reported on the fact that the POTUS and PEOTUS were briefed on it last week, which is true.

CNN did. The whole "we just reported on Buzzfeed reported on and linked to it, so we didn't cover it at all" excuse is laughable.

I don't agree with pissgate or pizzagate but their discussion and evidence shouldn't be censored HERE of all places. That's my view point.

Are there other instances of pissgate threads being deleted?

Do you think that BuzzFeed thread was an organic r/conspiracy thread that just happened to make it to r/all and reflected the opinions/beliefs of r/conspiracy?

Although I cannot say yes with 100% certainty that it happened, I can say that people claimed it did happen.

Whenever something big happens, usually there is an influx here of people voting based on their view point and to say this place is crazy left leaning Trump hating is kind of under selling it.

At the same time, the pro-government posts here scare the hell out of me. We know both parties are different sides are the same coin why trust them?

Understandable if we lived in a vacuum. When our current government is doing EVERYTHING they can to fuck over the incoming government I find it a little easier to breathe and be optimistically skeptical of DT. Everything he claims to hate is the same stuff this subreddit hates. I can see where it would seem like it's too good to be true but after the amount of money that was spent trying to defeat him and the amount of Dems that willingly sacrificed their integrity/reputations to try and take him down it's hard to not consider DT my ally.

And that's cool. We just have different feelings about current events, but I'm sure you will stand up for what is right when it comes down to it.

I appreciate you holding a good convo with me and not calling me a shill or dismissing my viewpoints.

Yeah how dare they remove an obvious brigade thread by r/politics, they're such dishonest rascals /s

this sub is full of neckbeards with low paying jobs. It is what it is.

LOL no that's the CTR-tards over at r/politics.

Not even minimum wage, since they're illegals.

You're right. If you're unpaid but are parroting CTR narratives and talking points, you're a useful idiot, not a shill.

I was honestly shocked when I logged on and saw a post on /r/conspiracy have so many upvotes, let alone the fact that it was from a buzzfeed article.

let alone that it was a post about Trump, that was really shocking to see here of all places

I was shocked we had 5k users browsing. Each time I refreshed it went up a few hundred. I had to stop and do other things around 7k users. I heard it kept going past 8k. Crazy town.

I guess you don't pay attention to /r/conspiracy upvotes that often because it happens a lot https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/top/?sort=top&t=year

Most of those posts happened before the voting algorithm changed, so no I didn't see those. Still, the buzzfeed post would have been in the top ten or fifteen posts of all time, which is weird for this sub

Note: you won't see the post anymore in this sub because the mods deleted it.

And I guess that's fair, I forgot about the algorithm change.

However, there are still posts like:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5kcppl/plant_lady_just_dropped_a_nuke/

and

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5mar1s/til_ron_paul_has_his_own_show_on_youtube_the_ron/

which were after the algorithm change with plenty of upvotes. Not to mention, once something hits /r/all it'll get a bunch more votes on it as well (especially considering it's an anti-trump post).

The r/politics brigade brought them to push the fake narrative.

When I first saw the "trump allegations" headlines elsewhere my immediate thought was to see if it had been posted here, basically because I knew it wasn't the typical r/conspiracy narrative (being anti-Trump) and fully expected to see a huge amount of hypocrisy... and whadaya know, I DID see an insane amount of hypocrisy.

...so I upvoted the thread and the comments that pointed out the hypocrisy.

If r/conspiracy was true to it's cause we would've seen the sub as a whole digging through all these juicy new allegations... how far down does the rabbit hole go? But no, we saw lots of people wriggling and squirming and performing Olympic standard mental gymnastics in order to persuade themselves, and others, why we shouldn't bother exploring this particular conspiracy.

it was upvoted by bots and shills from r/politics.

don't believe the hype. pizzagate isn't going away any time soon.

the msm has already tried to stop it and that didnt' work.

poor msm doesn't understand the power of autism and the internet.

lol

LOL, says one of the brigaders from r/politics.

Yeah, your sub truly is a joke.

r/politics is a joke and so are you and the person I responded to.

More wikileaks are coming. Keep shaking in your boots shills. xD

Like wtf. I don't see how shills think they are convincing. They are like getting thousands of upvotes and saying this is being brigaded by Drumph. Lol. Meanwhile this post gets downvoted to hell.

Of course, because anyone who disagrees with you must be paid to do so.

Nah, they're just useful idiots, since they are unpaid.

Parroting the MSM narrative put forth by BuzzFeed is truly the action of a useful idiot.

Sorry, allow me to correct myself:

Of course, because anyone who disagrees with you must be an idiot.

Debunked? There's now a second source, at least, for the same basic story. The evidence is getting stronger, not weaker.

Seriously.

Fuck off uninformed sheep

lol

CTR or something. There's no second source for the Russian piss-porn. These people are desperate.

No just a critical thinker who is waiting for more information on both. Sorry I find one more likely than the other. Doesn't mean one or either can conclusively be shown to be false at this point. But saying I'm being paid for my opinion because it doesn't fit your worldview is idiotic, and if anything undermines the point you're trying to prove.

You really believe stories like this?

This isn't from the report.

Oh you mean the fake document even the Director of US intelligence stated wasn't real?

Can you cite where he said that?

It's false because they haven't found any hard evidence to back it up? Using that logic, everything in this subreddit isn't real.

He didn't say they were fake, just that there's currently no hard evidence to back it up.

It's false because they haven't found any hard evidence to back it up?

The media and intelligence officials admit it has been circulating for several months and nothing from it has been able to be substantiated. Read between the lines, dude. That means it's fake.

I've seen you say "read between the lines" regarding this statement several times now.

I'd love to see you give me another real, verifiable example of when a US intelligence agency has publicly made such statements and actually have been proven to mean later on that they believed the info/source fake. I'll be waiting!

You believe that's in the dossier? You haven't even opened the document have you, you're just regurgitating whatever you hear from /pol/ or the_donald without verifying even an easily verifiable claim.

hope you realize that was fake and not in the actual dossier.

Pizzagate: Based on speculation from actual emails written from the DNC and John Podesta.

Pissgate: Based on a document that Wikileaks, who are the experts regarding the authenticity of intelligence reports, has declared fraudulent.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/818992803829137408

Meanwhile, every news organization and journalist other than Buzzfeed and CNN has declared that they cannot collaborate this "report".

They are not even remotely equivalent. One is an authentic open source citizen investigation while the other is a fraudulent document written by an intelligence agency for political purposes and only gained traction through mass bot upvoting.

Speculation aka weird phrases. Please don't shoot up anymore businesses during your "investigation".

You're being paid or are stupid.

Oh yeah, cause if there's one man we can trust, it's the one who thinks that religion is a tool of the elite

Wikileaks was flat out wrong though.

It wasn't an official intelligence document. It was a paper produced from a now civilian, former Mi6 spy.

This is where you find the truth now, buried under CTR comments, downvoted into obscurity.

One piece of paper, written with spelling errors and claims proven to be false, is somehow credible evidence.

While dozens of emails talking in code, connections to Epstein, and "mock" satanic rituals raises no eyebrows.

These people are desperate.

What's the pizzagate evidence? I mean really, what's something that isn't grasping a straws?

Every time I've seen someone say the exact same comment as yours, I never see a response back...

Really? Those deleted/privatized IG accounts say "family friendly pizza shop" to you? Get real. Plus, Podesta needs to say whether he owns a hot dog stand in Hawaii. Why does it take an hour to do pizza? Why are swimming 10 year old "entertainment?" If there's nothing there, you might be a bit sick yourself.

Jeffrey Epstein.

Trump's best bud?

Why are you all trying to make it about piss porn? They're talking about the AP story today. Sounds like you're just trying to bury the actual story by focusing on the sex stuff. It's about possible collusion with a foreign power and Trump camp saying first there was no contact and now that admitting there was a phone call between Flynn and the Russian ambassador the day Obama expelled those diplomats/spys and laid down new sanctions on their intelligence agencies.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ba462d64c12d4692b8381cb7076d34ab/ap-source-trump-aide-frequent-contact-russia-envoy

The name of the post has pissgate. I think I'm in the ballpark This Russia hysteria is stupid.

This kind of behavior should be 3 strikes you're out.

Reported.

I've seen people banned for simply disagreeing with mods here. Personal attacks have no place here. Please go back to the_donald

Please don't make accusations of rule violations in comments, report directly to the modmail.

Cheers.

Thank you for your valuable and insightful contribution to the discussion.

Removed Rule 4

1st Warning

suck a dick, queer.

Rule 1 Removed.

I don't know

tl;dr

I see what point you're trying to make but yeah that's not how PizzaGate is working. I do agree that Pissgate shouldn't be brushed off but the PizzaGate investigation is way more in depth with more results then you're playing off.

I've been called crazy for months because of PizzaGate but I'm still investigating. If you find truth in and passion in finding truth in PissGate, by all means keep digging and if you stick with it and enough evidence is found then the movement will continue.

I agree completely. I'm not completely dismissing pizzagate there has been a lot of solid evidence so if I had to go one way or the other I'd probably lean towards there being something going on. But some of the stuff offered as proof is ludicrous.

If I believe it at all (and I'm not quite sure I do) I'm of the opinion that a lot of the people who visited and talked about the establishment are straight, but they were purposefully included as a sort of plausible deniability, to give a semblance of legitimacy to the whole thing.

There has literally been zero solid evidence of pizzagate. Literally zero. Evidence is not grossly misinterpreted emails. There is zero evidence. I can't even believe that this is a conspiracy. I mean, fuck, this one is just to show how stupid and gullible you people are. Congratulations, you're wasting your otherwise unproductive life.

There's the Project Veritas video where Hillary buys baby parts to assemble a frankenbaby so she can fuck it then eat it.

...I'm gonna need a link for that one.

that's not how PizzaGate is working

yes i've been keeping up with it too, there has been absolutely no evidence of anything beside empty supposition and rumour mongering - i mean what is the biggest piece new piece of evidence from the last month?

Hell, what even is the biggest piece of evidence for Pizzagate in the first place?

Pat Benatar has a song called Hell is for Children and she loves Pizza. Bill Clinton's nickname in High School was Heartbreaker, also a Benatar song.

shit, is that true? I feel stupid for laughing at pizzagate now.

Not only that but James Alefantis' aunt sang backup vocals for The Little River Band.

Wait but Little River Band is almost an anagram of Child Rape Pizza Conspiracy Involving Hillary Clinton jesus, it's like they're shoving it in our faces and gloating..

biggest piece of evidence is that they ate Walnut Pasta and that's a very odd thing to have for lunch, i mean you'd have to be some form of pretentious lefty weirdo to eat pasta but with Walnut sauce?! no, such things don't even exist! it has to be secret code!

Oh and someone likes art which is significant and thought provoking and created by one of the big names in the current art world - can you imagine anyone who likes art, has eaten Walnut Sauce on their pasta and supports a left-wing political party? no, of course not - but can you imagine a pizza restaurant that's a secret child rape and cannibalism club used by the most powerful people in the country who discover it when they see it's sign is a secret code symbol for paedophilia? of course you can!

of course!

You obviously don't know anything about what has been uncovered. You're just picking things on the service to discredit everything else.

This email is probably the most suspicious to me:

We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in that pool for sure.

Why would little kids be entertainment and why would their ages need to be emphasized?

because parents do that with their kids, every fucking christmas letter we got had the exact same formatting names followed by ages it's the most normal thing ever.

but actually unlucky for you you're wrong and i do know this email, at the end of it there's an apology that John won't be there -- kinda ruins it, hu? even though it's nothing anyway.

family has a pool, kids like pools, kids play in the pool to keep then entertained while parents drink wine - this is not in the least bit odd.

Just a brief glimpse at your comment history shows you are nowhere near qualified to be giving advice on what "normal" is.......................

what do you mean?

That email of John Podesta hanging out with 7, 9, and 11 years old for entertainment is pretty suspicious. The way it is written is what really makes it weird.

We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in that pool for sure.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736

Why would the sender of the email need to emphasize their age and then call them entertainment?

I've referred to children as "entertainment" and I'm no pedophile. And isn't it one of their parents the one who wrote that email?

Either way...some sketchy sounding language when viewed through a specific lense is far from what anyone would call hard evidence, no?

I think it is viewed through that lens for a good reason. The people participate in spirit cooking and do things that have occult references like saying "sacrifice a chicken to moloch" (some say it was joke but i don't think so). They also talk in code sometimes like " a handkerchief with a pizza related map". John Podestas associate, James Alefantis also has a lot of questionable things on his instgram relating to murder, infants, and kids.

I agree, all of it is circumstantial at best but suspicious at the least. I am glad there are people behind the scenes looking for verifiable evidence. I don't think me, you, or anyone can categorically say that pizzagate is true or false.

i can say its false

It's false.

The pictures of children and the comments by the adults on their instagram.

A joking picture that the place posted on their public instagram account of a young child being taped down on a high chair.

Location of the building where the photo of the construction of the "killroom" is. Locational info from metadata.

Alefantis threatening the researcher that found it.

oh this is new to me, did you just make it up? what's the source?

metadata

of a Instagram post? which strips metadata on all images uploaded to it...?

In this sub, there are still some comments left here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5maqnf/james_alefantis_threatens_pizzagate_researcher/

but that just looks like a made up chat log and had absolutely no evidence at all it happened? oh and the guy making the claims is collecting money via tshirt sales? i don't think naything could be more bogus... why would i believe this?

I absolutely believe Alefantis threatened David Seaman over posting the address to Pegasus... since its his mothers house and someone has already shown up at Comet Ping Pong with a gun.

Seriously, if you have already reported harassment to the police and FBI and someone is STILL making money selling merchandise claiming you are a pedophile and publishes your mothers home address with the claim that there is a kill room in the basement for disposing of child rape victims... I think at that point, NOT losing your shit is a bigger sign of being a sociopath that flipping tables.

That email of John Podesta hanging out with 7, 10, and 11 years old for entertainment is pretty suspicious. The way it is written is what really makes it weird.

We plan to heat the pool, so a swim is a possibility. Bonnie will be >> Uber Service to transport Ruby, Emerson, and Maeve Luzzatto (11, 9, and >> almost 7) so you’ll have some further entertainment, and they will be in >> that pool for sure.

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/46736

Why would the sender of the email need to emphasize their age and then call them entertainment?

Because old people are obsessed with kids ages, and find them entertaining.

You're not investigating a fucking thing. How many detectives have you met with face-to-face to show them your evidence?

Exactly how many times have you been in and out of police stations to file reports?

You're sitting on your computer shitposting and pushing propaganda about the owner of a pizza parlor.

You don't think you're crazy right? I want you to gather the evidence you have from your investigation and present it to a mental health professional. When you're released from your 72 hour hold let us know how it went.

I think the biggest difference is there is evidence of massive pedophilia rings. That isn't even a conspiracy theory, its a conspiracy fact. They exist. The idea that pedophiles would promote other pedophiles in office also makes a ton of sense, for blackmail and control purposes. So while there isn't a lot of "tangible evidence" regarding Pizzagate, pandora's box just keeps getting bigger and bigger the more people investigate it. Whereas Pissgate just doesn't really make any logical sense. Trump defended himself perfectly, he is a public figure, he knows he is being watched, he knows his behavior is constantly being scrutinized. Why would he travel to a foreign country and then let his guard down and hire prostitutes to piss on a bed that Obama had slept on? Ppl who say Trump is a moron, he hates Obama! Why wouldn't he do this? Are missing the point here. This behavior literally doesn't accomplish anything. I'm not saying its impossible that Trump could be a pervert, I'm just saying that by and large he is incredible pragmatic. If you have a second source corroborating Pissgate, I'd love to see it. I am all about breaking down assumptions and questioning everything, as is 90% of the ppl on this sub.

Of course you were downvoted. This place is a fucking joke... But only when it comes to certain subjects... gee I wonder why?

Clearly CTR got bored of their own echochamber in /r/politics

they dont need CTR anymore really, that was mostly because Sanders was so popular on reddit. reddit is like 90% liberal so all pro - trump stuff gets downvoed. redacted even came up with an AutoBot that will remove any post that has below 50% upvotes, so the echo chamber censors itself

Obviously everyone who disagrees with you is CTR dude. Good investigative work!

+14, 3 hrs

Mmhmm, downvoted I see.

You find it hard to believe that a worldwide realestate development company does business with Russians?

I don't actually understand your question or it's relevance to what I said. Could you explain?

The issue isn't so much about whether or not he likes to get pissed on. The issue is how much influence the Russians have on him. That could be through incriminating video tapes or just simply because he owes them a whole lot of money.

Although obviously pedophile rings exist, the idea that Trump owes Russians money seems much more likely than a government run child trafficking and cannibalism ring.

No one cares about the piss. They care if manafort, cohen, or anyone else colluded with the dnc hack or offered Russia a quid pro quo. Absolutely bullshit to act like it's about pissing.

The thread is about pissgate. Hence my response to those allegations. The accusation you are referring to is based on the assumption that trump paid the Russians to hack the dnc and leak the documents to Wikileaks. This hasn't been proven, and the narrative is being peddled by the intelligence community which should naturally bring suspicion. I am not arguing that trump isn't corrupt. I've known he was from day 1. And if there is a quid pro quo that's obviously not ok, but it seems pretty much standard operating procedure for republicans and democrats, why would we expect any different with trump? However, It's not foolish to think that instigating war with Russia is a bad idea. It's a lesser of two evils to create friendly relations with Russia, lest we want another Cold War and nuclear threat on our hands.

The pissing and the quid pro quo are all in the same opposition Buzzfeed published. You're trying to dismiss or separate it by calling it Pissgate and make it sound outlandish. We know what Russia is trying to do. Nuclear war is not the only alternative to electing the prefferred candidate of Putin. If any of the non pissing stuff is true it's worse than what Nixon resigned for. At the end of the day, we know for sure a couple of scary things, whether or not any of the buzzfeed dump is true. We know Russia wants what's in this book and they think Trump being President helps them get there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 17381}

I think the link to this book was posted here a little while ago. I read the summary and it was very compelling and a lot of what it said rings very similar to what is going on here in the USA. Trump very well could be a puppet of the Kremlin, and I have no doubt that thousands of citizen journalists, investigators and other journalists will continue to dig to find the truth. Trumps cabinet picks are enough to cause concern and speculation, but we have nothing yet to really tie him down to any wrongdoing.

If we look at what proof we have right now, a dossier filled with factual errors written by a British intelligence agent, funded specifically by anti-Trump politicians, the veracity of this document can already be called into question, by this fact alone. There is a significant difference between a sketchy document written for political purposes, leaked by the CIA who has been known to spread disinformation to the public, and a set of emails written by elected officials themselves (aka dnc leaks) that have been verified as real. It's going to be difficult to compel a bunch of conspiracy nerds to start investigating a CIA and MSM pushed rhetoric that russia hacked our elections, and even less motivating when that hack resulted in tangible proof of wrong doings by the dnc. I am not referring to the pedo ring, but all of the other corrupt ass shit they were doing which is more along the lines with the accusations against trump, bribes, foreign kick backs, pay to play, etc. Now I firmly believe that Trump and Hillary are of the same cloth, two sides of the same coin. Both are corrupt as fuck, but I can't superimpose my personal beliefs onto the evidence. This dossier doesn't even compare as evidence to the troves and troves of actual emails from dnc personnel. If we get access to trumps emails and it proves illegal behavior, many here will be there pouring through the documents just as they poured through the podesta emails.

To further clarify, I am a former democrat. I voted obama in 08 and 12. Obama was the first president I ever voted for. I hated trump, I thought he was a corrupt, narcissistic, who is going to use the presidency as a 4 year infomercial for his business (the LL bean tweet, his daughters plug for her jewelry, were beyond repugnant). And yet, I still believe that some of what pizzagate has uncovered could be true. James Alefantis, his friends, and the podestas reactions to these accusations, the medias blatent denial of it, even when they are quick to jump into a very suspect CIA leaked document, is a big reason so many alarm bells in the conspiracy community are going off. Your not going to be able to peg me as some trump supporter and say that that is what is clouding my judgement, it's not. I'm allowed to hate trump and Hillary equally.

You're literally insane.

You resort to name-calling, when I choose to counter your worldview. Very mature. Left-Right, liberal-conservative, Democrat-Republican, it's a dichotomy that's manufactured to keep us fighting among ourselves.

You're lying or obfuscating the real truth. In no way do I respect the bullshit you're peddling. The narrative that the religious right and the pro business centrists (the worst from each side) will push the same policy is either naive or disingenuous. You're simply a dumb person if you think they're all the same. The SCOTUS appointments alone show stark differences that change real life in this country. Trump wants another Scalia, and you're basically saying the dems do too or your argument falls apart when you realize the stark contrast of the kind of nominee it would actually be. This is not to mention putting the EPA in the hands of someone who sued them and copy pasted oil lobby policy as his own work. Seriously, get the fuck out of here with your brainless argument.

I am neither lying, nor obfuscating, nor peddling bullshit. I don't have an ulterior motive here other than sharing my point of view on the world. And quiet frankly now I'm pissed that you are being so fucking rude because I don't agree with you. You verbally attacking me is getting old, telling me to get out of here? Where do you come off like your opinion and perspective is more valid than mine? Last I checked that's not what this sub is about, get the fuck over it, you only speak for yourself, don't act like you speak for others. I am neither naive nor disingenuous, what is naive to me is assuming that Trump, is going to be somehow any different than Bush Sr, Clinton, Bush Jr and Obama. When you start to look at the big picture, who is the president doesn't actually change all that much. Yes some policies do some good for people, I'm not arguing that they don't, and all presidents and congress have put out some policies that do affect us in a good way and a bad way. When policy affects us in a bad way that's when we have to protest it. But really how does a conservative replacing Scalia have that much effect on our lives? Scalia was incredibly conservative, and all of or civil liberties weren't stripped away when he was on the court. There has to be a compelling case against abortion that makes it completely through the lower courts. That hasn't happened since the 1960s with roe v wade, how the fuck is trump somehow going to magically overturn that? Trump being president just means that the elite get to continue to screw over the people and the government continues to commit fraud and passes policy bandaids and temporary fixes with our tax dollars. Your making this partisan when I'm discussing politics free of that distraction.

I'm being rude because I'm sick of this idiocy. If this were a bar I'd take it outside. Obama is the same as Trump and Bush? Those are fighting words now. I'm done taking the high road. Your views are ignorant and belligerent. You're telling me that putting religion in the classroom and putting tax dollars into that shit is a non issue and the same the dems would do. You're saying that a nobel prize winner and a lawyer who sued the EPA will do the same thing with the agency and that none of it will effect anything. You're saying that having the head of Exxon as Secretary of State is the same as John Kerry. You're telling me that Obama is the same as the guy who started a war under false premises that my friends fought and died in when Obama voted against it. Either you lie, you're ignorant, or both.

You haven't taken the high road this entire conversation. You have attempted to belittle me and put words in my mouth. Have you ever heard of projection? It's a term for when you project your own fear of yourself onto others. Just because you don't agree or understand my point here, doesn't mean I am an idiot. I am not saying their policies are the same and I agree with your concerns about the EPA, almost all of trumps cabinet picks are concerning, but to leap to conclusions that his picks are going to somehow change the tide of consumers moving to alternative energy isn't valid. Religion is already in our schools, it's not ok and citizens should keep fighting against it. And obama has continued and expanded bush's wars. We are actually in more proxy wars in more countries than we were under bush.

So at this point, I'm done having this conversation with you, you have no desire to understand a different perspective than your own and no interest in treating others with respect. I'm no longer going to respond to your comments. You clearly have no respect for others. Take care in your bubble.

Nobody cares about the piss but this conspiracy is named #pissgate, right. All the CTR care about is the piss

Jesus Christ look at the high level critical thinking skills on you. That name is a marketing campaign from the right so you think about the one part that's not an impeachable offense.

DNC hack was an american agency

I'd argue the opposite, actually. It seems impossible to me that normal people would ever turn a blind eye to a conspiracy of pedophiles for whatever reason. They'd be turned in by anyone, no matter how fucked up their politics are. We had a couple of examples of this sort of conspiracy in Australia, one in Sydney in the 80's where the perverts were cooking meth for some crooked cops. Another where an MP (congressman) was banging young boys in his parliament office. In both cases a s soon as someone non-perverted knew about it, they reported it, even though it harmed their position/political party. I can't believe that everyone in the Democrats who "knows" about the pro ring wouldn't put reporting it over party political interests. That doesn't ring true for me. On the other hand, hearing about Donald Trump hiring prostitutes while on a trip to Russia does seem in keeping with everything we know about his personal life, conduct, etc

Not trying to start something- I think Trump is likely to be no better or worse than other presidents. But the relative believability of the two stories are Pissgate>Pizzagate

On

Take a look at my latest response to coltninja above. I'm too lazy to type it all out again. For all I know pizzagate could be a flaming pile of crap, but there is evidence to suggest that people in power have ways to manipulate law enforcement and evade persecution. Do a little research on The Finders and The Franklin Coverup, I also read about a pedo ring in your neck of the woods involving Nicole Kidmans father. He fled the country after the allegations and died. It's also distinctly possible that the police in Australia are far less corrupt than those in America, given the numerous (17+ intelligence agencies we have). I am not saying that there aren't good cops and CIA and FBI, but there are also bad ones who work for the men in power who will cover this up.

For all we know Trump could be a perverted, corrupt Russian puppet. I definitely believe he is at least a perverted womanizer and corrupt, as I have seen evidence from his very behavior that prove such claims. However this dossier is super suspect, contains factual errors, was written by an ex British spy, and leaked by the CIA, it can't even be compared as evidence to the actual dnc emails, which are real. Outside of pizzagate those emails prove corruption, but the untouchable elites will never be tried for it. Again, I'm still on the fence about pizzagate, but the evidence is still stronger than this sketch dossier. The reactions of james alefantis, his friends and the podestas, and msm blatant cover up , are all super sketch and flame the fires that something is really there.

Good points. I wasn't trying to say that the "dossier" should be taken as gospel- it's clearly just oppo research. More that the contents are more believable without looking at the respective facts.

Just another. Thing- Nicole Kidman's dad was a respected psychiatrist and recipient of the Order of Australia. The woman who accused him of pedophilia also reported being abused by three prime ministers, the Nazis and satanists.... http://www.abc.net.au/mediawatch/transcripts/s4343957.htm

Gaslighting. Its the next thing.

Have you heard of Jeffrey Epstein? Did you even research anything before making this comment?

Additionally everyone was very clear in reporting that the dossier was unsubstantiated.

The news element of the story over time was:

the POTUS and PEOTUS were briefed on it

buzzfeed released it and then that Trump reacted poorly

Other intelligence agencies and our own intelligence sources confirm the character of the author

Certain parts of the dossier are consistent or inconsistent with XYZ.

And various other aspects.

The MSM story was never that the dossier was true.

Surely can you see the difference in narrative by the MSM though.

Running with "stories with no evidence" is dangerous when it's in support of powerful people. When it's against powerful people, it's dangerous.

The MSM as a whole didn't. They ran the story about the briefing to the POTUS and Trump only initially and were openly critical of buzz feed for releasing it when they did.

Once buzz feed had released it, what did you expect the rest to do? Ignore it? They provided context and explain exactly what was verified (which was the stories about McCain and Paul Manafort etc) and what wasn't verified (pissgate) with many going as far as not mentioning the publicly available details to preserve their integrity because they think the leak was poor practice.

Given what they had to work with and given the leak, I don't think they did a bad job realistically.

So Russia leaking real nefarious facts, that's horrendous.

But MSM leaking bullshit, heroic.

/rolleyes

What? No IMO that was bad journalistic practice.

^CNN apologist

Thank you for you thoughtful contribution. This is exactly what people are talking about when they say this place is T_D 2.0. Because I'm not a brain dead reactionary that uses feelings instead of thought I'm an apologist. Great.

The fuck are you talking about?

The DNI came out and said it was bullshit, even MSNBC called it fake news.

The report itself is laughable and full of typos. Nobody but David Brocks Nerd Virgin Task Force took this seriously

CNN fact check said it was bs too, lol.

Leftist don't watch CNN.

You're kidding right?

Give a citation.

Check their ratings.

Ah, so you're basing it purely on ratings for television? I guess there aren't news sources outside of just television.

They are but they aren't as viewed as TV news channels.

I don't even know what you're talking about.

ok

No, they watch RT, Telesur, etc. Actual news. Liberals are not leftists. Cut a liberal and a fascist bleeds.

I was talking about leftists..

What are leftists to you?

I don't think fascists are liberals under any definition. Fascists are pro-authoritarian, liberals are pro freedom and human rights.

Unless they're brown. Obama is a liberal who won a Nobel Peace Prize and is leaving office having dropped more than 26,000 bombs on six countries and a huge number of civilian casualties. Oh, and billions of dollars in weapons sold to Israel and Saudi Arabia that have only aided in the murder and oppression of the Yemenese and Palestinians.

That is the true face of liberalism. Conservatives are no better mind you, they're two sides of the same capitalist coin.

that one liberal happens to be president tasked with those kinda things to keep the nation strong, whether you like it or not, its the real world. kinda a broad brush to paint the rest with, no?

It's not the "real world", it's a corrupt capitalist system that endorses and encourages malevolence for the pursuit of personal profit and power. Capitalism and corruption are not endemic to existence.

America is not "strong." Trust in the media and the government is at an all-time low. Do you think torture, funding terrorism, war profiteering, etc should continue just because you choose to give up your freedom to someone who just legalized propaganda?

Do you keep a copy of 1984 under your pillow to jerk off to?

wtf are you ranting against? this has fuck all to do with what i said. you need an outlet for that anger and autism dude lol

You made excuses for Obama. I pointed out yet further reasons why Obama is a scumbag. It has everything to do with what you said, your attempts to deflect are poor.

i made the point that obamas actions as president dont represent all liberals. you just got triggered and went on some tangential rant cause you hate the sight of the word obama

Or perhaps you're not very eloquent.

lets agree to disagree why you were so incredibly off topic

CNN fact check said it was bs too, lol.

CNN fact check said it was bs too, lol.

No, Trump said that the DNI told him it was fake. The DNI has only publicily stated that he told Trump that it's validity was still to be determined. MSNBC just stated that their unnamed source called it "disinformation."

That's a fairly low bar to call something debunked.

If something is "Disinformation", it's fake. It can instantly be debunked.

False information deliberately and often covertly spread (as by the planting of rumors) in order to influence public opinion or obscure the truth

Yes but all we have is one unnammed "senior official" calling it that.

All we have is a bunch of memos that are fake and unverified.

What do you mean by fake, exactly? Nothing has yet proven to be false. The memos exist, that's not in question. There claims are being investigated. No one is saying that the claims are true, but the only people saying they are false are those who have everything to lose.

YOU CAN'T PROVE A NEGATIVE YOU FUCKING SHILL

This isn't a "prove God doesn't exist" kind of existential argument. Things in the memo either did or did not happen, and there either is proof or there is not.

I just wrote a memo about Joe Biden being a professional NASCAR driver, but I don't have proof yet and I misspelled NASCAR in the report, do you believe me?

If I find out that major intelligence agencies are investigating the claim and, after over half a year, have refused to deny them, then I might.

They have been floated for a year and unconfirmed, that should tell you there is little to no reason to believe them

Except that everyone seems to be choosing their words very carefully to an almost painstaking degree. I can't remember the last time I heard intelligence officials bounce around "unverified" this much. I'm not saying any of this is true, I just think that no one should be ready to dismiss it out of hand when so many intelligence officials aren't.

Just realize we're having two different conversations at the same time lol. And yes sure that's a fine point to have, but the fact everyone is claiming there's any proof for this at all, with some people outright saying it's 100% true, is disconcerting.

Did anyone say that? If so they are getting way ahead of themselves. I haven't personally seen anyone claim this is true. Just people claiming it was false and people claiming it was unconfirmed/unverified.

My sources tell me pizzagate is disinformation.

Holy shilling.

Seriously wtf?

For fucking real. CTR much.

Pretty sure they've changed their name to American Bridge now.

Michael Cohen has a very strong alibi that debunks the claims regarding him.

Well, if he said it, then it must be true. Case closed!

His alibi is actually ONLY for the august 29th, while the reports of his trip were just sometime late august/early september. So no, its no a very strong alibi.

He said he was in NY for the rest of August and September...

To disprove him would be very easy. Instead you have a 35 page document with dozens of accusations and not one single piece of tangible evidence to back them up.

Saying you were somewhere is not an a strong alibi. He only has proof he was in NY for August 29th.

Yeah but the burden of proof isn't on him to prove where he was without first evidence to suggest he was where they claim, is it? I'm not sure. It still seems like a shot-in-the-dark accusation.

Shouldn't it be easy for him to prove? What's stopping him? Wouldn't it be good for them and the country? I could prove my whereabouts easily with bank statements and receipts. That's what I'd do, because it would completely put it to rest. Instead he tweets the cover of his passport and apparently that's enough. Haha, a sub for conspiracy taking a shady lawyer at his word. What a time to be alive.

If someone in the street asks you to prove you're a man would you whip out your cock and balls?

If it would heal the whole fucking country, and massively boost support in my favor, you bet your ass I would. Then again I dropped out of a better law school than he went to because I'm not willing to be a zealous advocate for the highest bidder.

It wouldn't "heal" shit, placating baseless (again, correct me if I'm wrong) persecution is not even cathartic.

The country was never attacked or wounded. Although it is being poisoned by festering scum within.

You're making excuses for why he shouldn't very easily take a shit on this whole thing. Frame it how you want, he could eviscerate his opponents with a fucking bank statement and that he won't do it, raises questions for any true skeptic. Apparently nowadays, skeptics take the word of a lawyer as gospel as long as he's right wing.

He doesn't need an excuse. That's the point. Everything else you spout is mere posturing.

You're so obviously full of shit. Sorry your buddies are being persecuted.

Peruse my post history and you'll find shit dribbling from your lips. I'm a socialist and have always been anti-Trump. Being reasonable is a virtue, my reactionary friend.

Cool story.

At least you concede. Perhaps in the future you could exercise more patience, rationality and logic. Everyone is innocent until proven guilty no matter how much of a detestable cunt they are. The burden of proof rests with the accuser.

Not in the court of public opinion, jackass. Have fun on that high horse.

I'm not talking about the court of public opinion though, am I? Keep on posturing all you like.

You don't know what you're talking about, clearly. You've got a lot of words and very little meaning.

Prove it.

More words you think have meaning but don't...

Might wanna dig out a dictionary then. Maybe a thesaurus if you're feeling adventurous.

/r/im14andthisisdeep

Looks like you've got nothing else to argue. Have a nice day, glad I could help you iron out your worldview.

Happy delusions, friend.

Being unable to discern what a delusion even is would be more of a sign of delusion, wouldn't you say? Your inability to disprove what I've said would indicate as much.

It's been confirmed to have been a different Michael Cohen for days now... https://www.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/819187673961287681

It's been reported that it was a different Michael Cohen.

Link?

https://www.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/819187673961287681

But. That's six days out of a possible 30 Not really an ironclad alibi. It would be very easy for a guy like that to prove it. Just sit down with a respected reporter, and show his diary for the period. I wonder why he hasn't done it- this would have shut the whole thing up already.

It's been confirmed to have been a different Michael Cohen for days now... https://www.twitter.com/jaketapper/status/819187673961287681

credit: /u/LoyalEider

Thanks. I heard that but couldn't find a source.

Why is this getting some many votes? It went up 15 votes in 20 seconds. Especially for some fake shit. There's no second source? Why don't you link it if evidence is getting stronger... Only more and more new organizations coming out calling it bullshit fake news.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ba462d64c12d4692b8381cb7076d34ab/ap-source-trump-aide-frequent-contact-russia-envoy

Second source everyone is talking about. First denied and later admitted by the trump camp. Hope you're not looking for piss porn, all we have is possible collusion with a foreign power and a definite attempt to cover up a phone call.

this reddit post is fake news. SAD.

I'm out of the loop on the "Pissgate"/former mi6 revelations.

What's the best thread to get a decent summation of evidence and theories so far?

Here's a few significant ones.

The second source: http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2017/01/unverified_claims_that_russia.html

CIA calls calls story "credible" and suggests more than one tape: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-russia-claims-more-than-one-sex-tape-blackmail-cia-agents-bbc-paul-wood-a7523321.html

Trump's ridiculous reaction, in which his team tells easily verifiable lies about it: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/01/13/donald-trumps-team-is-running-a-misdirection-campaign-on-russian-hacking/?utm_term=.536b1c7b5fc8

I think the entire purpose of Wikileaks may have been to bring down the pedo empire. Everything they've published, however esoteric, seems to have at least one PG related letter.

Everything they've published, however esoteric, seems to have at least one PG related letter.

You just revealed how new to this you are.

It had like 17k upvotes on this subreddit of all places. I was shocked to see so many /r/conspiracy subscribers blindly accepting what they were being told by the MSM...

If anything it's the reverse. Trump called 'fake news' and everything was immediately brushed off. Comet Pizza called 'fake news' and the hoards created entire youtube channels and discussion forums to further explore.

So, the Democratic process of voting is now the same methodology as establishing Truth.

Hire more PR shills.

Or if your sub has been brigaded by pro-Trump mods that delete any news that paints him in a negative light

But the news cannot be made up hence "fake news" there is heaps of information on pizzagate.

Yeah, most of it WE WROTE. Do you know how easy it is here in Bethesda to take a couple pics, upload'em and make up a child rape story?

I did it for a laugh AND YOU MONKEYS LOVED IT.

I honestly dont think mods are purposefully removing anti ptrump stuff. It's just that everything bad about him is on the surface. He isn't hiding the fact he's a racist.

When you post actual evidence of something Trump is hiding, like a conspiracy, it belongs here. But just talking about how openly mean and dumb he is belongs on a different sub I think

"But look at the sidebar!"

lmao you actually think he's racist...

lmao you actually don't...

When the Buzzfeed article hit, it made it to the top ofthe sub on votes. We could argue that the sub was brigaded, but I haven't seen anyone making that argument show anywhere in another sub with a high enough population where /r/conspiracy was linked. That sort of incendiary accusation is EXACTLY what should evoke that sort of response in this forums.

When the mods deleted the Buzzfeed post, within minutes they stickied a 2 second gif of Biden from the Congressional swearing in ceremony that people are claiming is evidence he is a pedo with absolutely no content and a title something along the lines of "Saw a Biden gif was trending on the front page and thought we needed one here."

That seems like someone with an agenda manipulating what people on this sub are exposed to.

This this this this.

Feel free to use ceddit and show examples of deleted pro trump threads. I browsed through 8 pages and the only removed posts were obvious shitposts and the Julian Assange meme post. Please stop the DONALD 2.0 narrative and focus on the actual argument being made.

https://www.ceddit.com/r/conspiracy/new

Feel free to find counter examples. There's even several anti-trump posts but the users just aren't upvoting them.

Feel free to use ceddit and show examples of deleted pro trump threads.

Well, there aren't any deleted pro trump threads.

As for anti-trump ones:

https://ceddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5n90h5/reports_allege_trump_has_deep_ties_to_russia/

And they even deleted a post where a mod here quit, no idea what was in it though:

ceddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5nl9rz/for_any_of_you_that_might_care_ive_just_resigned

Woops, made a big error, meant to type in "anti-trump".

Didn't they only delete that thread after it was confirmed by most reliable outlets as being fake? I understand that this sub is slightly right leaning and if it was a Hilary post it probably would have stayed, but the mods probably had good reasons to delete that one since the thread was getting raided heavily and was literally fake news.

The dossier itself wasn't exactly made up by Buzzfeed, but put together by a private company as opposition research, by an ex MI6 agent. Obama was briefed on the contents of the dossier, and McCain brought the dossier to the FBI as well. However, the contents within the dossier were not all verified. I would argue that it isn't fake news because it was important enough to be used as material within a governing agency. However, the fact that the contents within the dossier might not all be true is why some people are criticising Buzzfeed for releasing it.

While I'm skeptical of all the contents within the dossier as well, I don't believe it's the mods job to delete posts like this, we should be able to make up our own minds about it. Not to mention the mods here don't seem to ever delete anti-clinton or pro-trump stuff that come from spambots and other things that are demonstrably inarguably false.

And let's be honest, if this leaked dossier contained anti-Clinton information, this subreddit along with the_donald would be claiming all the information is real, and if a similar thread was deleted off /r/politics these subreddits would have been outraged by it. Anyone saying that the dossier contained fake information would be called a shill and the MSM would be trying to censor the dossier by claiming the contents were unverified.

As for raiding: the dossier news was one of the largest conspiracies for months and reached /r/all so it seems pretty natural.

Didn't they only delete that thread after it was confirmed by most reliable outlets as being fake?

Since when does r/conspiracy take the mainstream medias word for what is fake or true?

And by this definition how many other threads here should be deleted or labeled with a "unverified" tag? Like chemtrail lizard people bullshit is fine but if you criticize the president of the USA then the mods can come remove it? This doesnt smell like bullshit to you?

Actually they changed it from unverified to hoax.

But the evidence of it being a hoax was just two super vague posts on /pol/ which didn't discredit it at all.

Ding ding that's exactly what's happening.

Soooo /r/politics in reverse

post-truth

Huh. There's that buzzword that CTR anon warned us would used since Fake News backfired... Again.

My third argument in three days about using that term starting in 3... 2... 1..

post-truth

The real irony of that phrase is that it implies that we were in an age of "truth" before this.

If anything, we've been in "post-trust" mode since... well, since the fucking printing press was invented.

At the very least, it's been like this since the media companies started coalescing in the JP Morgan era, ~100 years ago.

Post-Truth is just the Soros funded name for it

Source?

You're so close here, it's confusing that you continue to argue when you support the general idea.

Words are memes. They spread. If it is useful, it continues; if not, it dies. I didn't like the word "blog" myself.

I am not sure why you think Post-Truth is a partisan term, but please consider that you continue to name-drop the boogeyman rather than acknowledging the elite's war on truth. Truth is going to remain devalued unless we can revive it.

Not quite, but close.

Post-Truth implies that Truth has been obscured and diluted to a point that it no longer dominates our public discussions. Think of it like Peak Oil: yes, there is still Truth, but it has been diluted by well-funded lies to the point where it is nigh-impossible to extract.

If you don't like "Post-Truth", think of this era as being post-Peak-Truth.

post-Peak-Truth

I like that.

Hey, look, it's that guy that doesn't understand what Post-Truth means, and that somehow he can plug his ears and pretend it won't affect him.

Yep, keep using it. Soros funded movements don't work. FakeNews didn't work. The Purple Revolution is a laughing stock. "Trumped Up Trickle Down" was just retarded. Post-Truth is amateur hour.

What the fuck are you even talking about?

If "Soros funded movements don't work" then why does Russia constantly complain about tossing out the guy in Ukraine?

If "FakeNews didn't work" then why does THIS THREAD complain about "PissGate" being fake news?

amateur hour

Yes, underestimate our adversary further. Good cattle. Suck the teat.

If "Soros funded movements don't work" then why does Russia constantly complain about tossing out the guy in Ukraine?

Yeah, it's probably more accurate to say they don't work anymore now that we know your patterns.

If "FakeNews didn't work" then why does THIS THREAD complain about "PissGate" being fake news?

Because the buzzword was usurped. Which is why it pisses you off so much. FakeNews applies to your MSM cabal much more easily.

Yes, underestimate our adversary further. Good cattle. Suck the teat.

You are not on "our" side, Mr 21 day old account.

Your patterns

pisses you off You are not on "our" side

One of us is trying to have a dialogue. It's me.

The other is calling me a Soros shill. That's you.

No, you're not trying to have a dialogue. You've been carpet bombing this sub since your accounts inception, 21 days ago.

And I'm not calling you a Soros shill. I think you're just a run of the mill pissed off democrat. You've just mindlessly latched onto the most recent Soros buzzword that has been pushed out to other shill sources.

No, you're not trying to have a dialogue.

I am.

You've been carpet bombing this sub

In what way?

since your accounts inception, 21 days ago.

Do you know why I think you're unwilling to have a dialogue about conspiracy yet?

You've just mindlessly latched onto the most recent Soros buzzword

Ok, again, you are not talking about anything here. You have cast aspersions on my state of mind and thrown out the name of the boogeyman. That is not dialogue. That is not a factual position which can be debated against.

That is Post-Truth, and you are neck deep in it.

If you don't want to acknowledge it, that's your own personal failing, but you can't tell anyone else what to think, and you can't change minds without truth.

No, you're not.

You're pushing your "post-truth" buzzword just as was predicted when FakeNews was usurped. The only one "neck deep" in it is you people pushing it.

Why do you insist on propagating the term?

Aren't you capable of discussing topics without it?

No?

No, you're not.

Yes I am.

You're pushing your "post-truth" buzzword just as was predicted when FakeNews was usurped.

your

I do admit a certain fondness for how appropriate it is.

The only one "neck deep" in it is you people pushing it.

No, we all are. It matters from which side of the hole in the ground one's head pokes, though.

Why do you insist on propagating the term?

I find it accurately summarizes the past 100+ years of civilization.

Aren't you capable of discussing topics without it?

Of course. What do you want to talk about, specifically?

No?

I just said 'yes.'

The thread has a topic.

You are unable to post about it without jerking off to Soros funded buzzwords.

So, no, not really.

But please, do keep propagating it. It makes the pissed off dems incredibly easy to identify. Just don't expect to anything other than being pointed out for it.

The thread has a topic.

Yes. And in my view, it aligns perfectly with what I've been saying.

When we first tangled because you don't believe in a word I used you made up your mind. And that's fine: you can be as closed off to discussion as you want. You can call me any name in the book, you can assume that I am partisan, you can project masturbation to the boogeyman, and you can completely dismiss anything I say without consideration.

I am pissed off, but not for the reasons you've assumed. You've done a marvelous job of putting me in a box and shutting down discussion of ideas. Congratulations for lashing out against a word: has your mission been accomplished?

It's not as simple as Trump said it was 'Fake News' so r/conspiracy ignores it, MSM said its "Fake News' so /r/conspiracy pursues it. I think the biggest difference is that there is actual evidence of massive global pedophilia rings. That isn't even a conspiracy theory, its a conspiracy fact. They exist. The idea that pedophiles would promote other pedophiles in office also makes a ton of sense, for blackmail and control purposes. So while there isn't a lot of "tangible evidence" regarding Pizzagate, pandora's box just keeps getting bigger and bigger the more people investigate it. Not to mention the ppl accused are acting super sketchy in rxn to it. Whereas Pissgate just doesn't really make any logical sense. Trump defended himself perfectly, he is a public figure, he knows he is being watched, he knows his behavior is constantly being scrutinized. Why would he travel to a foreign country and then let his guard down and hire prostitutes to piss on a bed that Obama had slept on? Ppl who say "Trump is a moron, he hates Obama, why wouldn't he do this?" Are missing the point here. This behavior literally doesn't accomplish anything. I'm not saying its impossible that Trump could be a pervert, he's said a lot of perverted, sexist and weird things. It's not a conspiracy that he is a womanizer, that's a wide open blatant fact. I'm just saying that by and large he is incredible pragmatic.

If anything it's the reverse. Trump called 'fake news' and everything was immediately brushed off.

You mean after the Director of National Intel stated is was fake, and other mainstream media outlets turned their backs on Buzzfeed and CNN? Oh ok.

Director of National Intel stated is was fake

Hate to break it to you, but your boy made up that conversation...

From the man himself:

The IC has not made any judgment that the information in this document is reliable, and we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions.

Source: https://www.dni.gov/index.php/newsroom/press-releases/224-press-releases-2017/1469-dni-clapper-statement-on-conversation-with-president-elect-trump

we did not rely upon it in any way for our conclusions.

Use your brain and read between the lines. It has been widely circulated in the media and among government for several months, and none of it has been able to be substantiated even though Republicans, Democrats, and the media have been digging into this. All have been trying to take down Trump. If this has been around for quite some time and nothing has come of it, guess what? It's not real. You Trump hating clowns are so desperate that you will literally believe anything.

I hope you appreciate the irony of saying:

you will literally believe anything

When you said:

the Director of National Intel stated is was fake

Which is clearly not the case, only the "God-Emperor" and his minions believe so, and you lash out instead of admitting you were wrong.

Food for thought.

One day you'll use your brain. Everything isn't always black and white.

and you Lash Out instead of admitting you were wrong.

lol

Because the TV said so.

I think people do not want pizagate to be true as the thought is awful.. Even worse when taken into global scope.

Trumps deal is so much smaller in scope, easier to integrate and tolerate.

What's intolerable about playing a little ping pong? http://i.imgur.com/IXtZU47.jpg

Oh the sacrifices they make in the name of art. What a bunch of disgusting idiots

Oh no! A weird artist doing weird artist things!

I see no possible explanation for that photo, except that he is a satanic pedophile. /s

in a room where children eat! of all places!

This place is apparently run by Tipper Gore.

I don't know, but there was definitely something fishy going on there...She was a little bit too worried about protecting kids from music lyrics for my taste.

IMHO, something wrong with all these "dear leaders"

I think people do not want pizagate to be true as the thought is awful..

...and people on /r/conspiracy want pizzagate to be true even though there's nothing compelling about the evidence for it.

And /u/Groomper wants his comment to be true, so he says it over and over again in every thread on this sub.

All I want is for assertions to be backed up with evidence.

Then pick apart the flimsy parts of specific assertions and point them out. Point out flaws in people's arguments / logic.

But instead, you make blanket statements about the theory itself, like "there's nothing compelling about pizzagate" (IDK what that's suppose to even mean).

Conspiracies about the elites having underground sex magick rituals have been circulating for 30+ years. These same conspiracies were floating around about the Catholic Church too and yet, they've been proven. Same thing happened in the UK and before that, there were many like yourself who fought hard to disregard the research. There's even "circumstantial evidence* that similar things happened in Hitler's deep inner circle in their search for Vril / orgone energy as well. So these ideas, at least on a conspiracy board, aren't that far of a stretch. Now that there's some eerie shit floating around and coded words in emails, symbols, and a strange connection between a pizza place, neighboring buildings, and some of the most powerful people in DC / the world, some boarderline satanic / magick mentions in emails (moloch, spirit cooking / Abramovic, and a human trafficker being pardoned / explicitly mentioned multiple times in the emails - it's natural that people on conspiracy boards are trying to connect dots, difficult or even impossible as it may be.

So if you really care, keep people honest, but don't make blanket statements over and over again about "those kooks who are ruining this sub with their constant digging at something fake!" there's a lot of reason behind why they're interested, and it's not simply delusion.

These same conspiracies were floating around about the Catholic Church too and yet, they've been proven.

I've watched that movie. The whole thing was uncovered when the victims came forward. They're welcome to do so now. With all the stuff "circumstantial evidence", you kinda forgot to figure out if there's a crime in the first place.

No, they'll continue saying that everyone is a satanic ritualistic pedophile and that the elites are suppressing the information.

AKA r/conspiracy will go back to normal lmao. Great bag of excuses you have there for your continued useless concerns.

There are no isolated incidents of ritualistic satanic pedophilia though. And there is no excuse of vow of abstinence from ritualistic satanic pedophilia to criticize. There is nothing.

Sure there are.

Cathy O'Brien

Fiona Barnett

A popular spiritual guide youtuber who claims she was a victim of a massive sex ritual ring.

A young girl in the UK who describes in details satanic sex practices and cannibalism that she sustained from a secret group of elites.

This documentary that aired on 60 minutes.

There are actually a lot more of these, but they usually don't go on to right books and have high hits on google, so it's hard to find them / remember their names (if they ever even revealed them).

Okay, if you consider every instance of a pedophilia ring to be pizzagate then there's a lot of evidence for pizzagate, because pedophilia exists. But then you can't claim that details about Podesta or a certain pizza place has anything to do with pizzagate. It's one or the other.

Of all the material you posted, only the really long Reddit post is about worldwide pedophilia. I might skim over it later if I have time. But again I'd like to emphasize that it is not about pizzagate.

You said ritualistic satanic pedophilia - that's literally what I linked. Stop moving the goal post.

This thread is about pizzagate. I meant ritualistic satanic pedophilia in pizzagate.

As a child I was sexually abused by my cousin. It was the hardest thing in my life telling anyone. And they didn't believe me.

You make it sound easy. As if this cannot be happening because no children or adults abused as children have come forward. You forgot these aren't just my cousin, a person with no wealth and power. These are people who can have their victims killed and wiped off the earth and kill any person who gets too close to tangible evidence. At the very least they can ruin them financially or get them in trouble with the IRS (tax law is so crazy confusing anyone could be gone after).

I'm terribly sorry this has happened to you. I didn't mean to imply that it's easy for a victim to come forward - certainly this would be very hard for an individual to do, I didn't mean to imply otherwise.

Heard that guys? Nothing to see here, we're paranoid is all.

Time to pack it up boys, lets go home, its all a hoax

Ah urban dictionary, the source to end all sources.

Nothing is proof for you, thank God PizzaParty didnt win

No, I think lots of things are proof. Testimonials, paper trails, videos/pictures of crimes, witnesses, DNA samples, etc.

Thanks for informing me on proof... do you know what resonable doubt is? If a guy posts a photo of a crystal and tags it #molly, molly is street name for mdma, you might not be sure if he means the drug or some inside joke but if the same guy keeps posting stuff like that, you can guess with pretty good accuracy that he is AT LEAST a drug user.

The problem is people dont want to believe there is a possibility some famose people and politicians are pedophiles. Human and organ traficing is a $50 billion dollar industry, thats five times more than prostitution.

If you are sent here by someone to troll and attack users, tell your boss he can buy my silence cheaply because i am tight on money.

why is chicken lovers a weird hashtag? maybe they like the commonly eaten meat

Because you dont post a pic of a baby and hastag it like that....

She's a baby, maybe they gave her some chicken for the first time and she really enjoyed it. What do you actually think it means?

Please stop. The fact that you have to ask me that question shows who you are. You obviously didnt read about this at all or you have a secret agenda. Why did someone pay for robot tweets that said almost the same thing like you? They literaly spammed twitter with a copy-pasted story "maybe they just aet chicken and liked it?". If there is nothing to the story, why are there so many censoring happening? We are uncovering a big evil in this world and nothing can stop as from this. Their attacks are fuel to our fire and they obviously dont know how to control the damage.

What the hell are you talking about on twitter? That sounds hilarious if i've been turned into a bot.I am what, I don't understand lol

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Czii-xIVIAAhqPn.jpg english is not my main language, your insults dont touch me, stop trying to change the conversation please, if you want a civil discussion about this, i will answer all your questions.

Lol I have no idea what that chain of tweets is about, and I'm sure that there are people shilling for both sides it's how the internet works nowadays. The point still stands that it's way more plausible that the little one has had chicken for the first time, and the bots are probably trying to kill the conspiracy theory because it's dangerously unfounded.

Lol you are wrong, shilling is a new term for Astroturfing, astroturfing is "paid trolling", someone is actually paying people to go around the internet and spread lies and misinformation. Why didnt Podesta himself say anything about his very creepy instagram photos? Why does he have to pay bots to spread the word when he couldv written a tweet himself?

There are both democratic shills and shills run by the russians, and you're being ignorant to ignore either of them. It's because the theory is so outlandish, and has no evidence that doesn't rely on 4chan slang for childporn, that he's giving it the media coverage it doesn't deserve by addressing it publicly. Again, what do you think 'chickenlover' means?

Chickenlover, chicken is a male child. It is not baded on "4cham slang" it is based on Pedo slang

ite well point stands, that's not evidence

It is not evidence, it is resonable doubt pilling one on another. We have a lot of "maybe they are talking about fucking kids", idk what did you expect, podesta's direct confession?

If a deug dealer posts a pic of pills and bills, you might think it is harmless, but if he keps posing all kinds of pills, money and hastags like #molly #rollin and other drug slangs that seem innocent at first, you can conclude with a big probability that he is a drugdealer

except these food related metaphors are from people who love food

https://s24.postimg.org/9zjor2qet/pool.jpg

dude are you being serious? Parents describing children as entertainment is a completely normal turn of phrase. Dude, children love swimming. Honestly if you read an email like that and immediately think it's sexual then your head is fcked up

You are crazy, i have never heard of someone calling their children like that. "Entertainment" are prostitutes, have you ever watched movies? You are fucked for defending them, if there is God, you will burn in hell. When the sociaty finds out PG is true, every one of you will be hunted down. You think your work protects you? The NDA you signed was not for your silence, it was for your soul.

r/REEEEEE

read my comments lol. I shitpost about football, super smash bros, and sometimes talk about politics. I live in the UK lol

So what, you post on a couple of other subs and it makes your account legit? You do know what sub are you in, we see through that bs.

The "discussion and evidence" has no evidence that those photos are of the same girl.

That's all you have. Weird, inappropriate things scattered across the net. But for the main premise of Pizzagate to be true, you need to find something more concrete. Victims, testimony, evidence of a crime, direct connections to trafficking.

That's the thing about circumstantial evidence. One thing....sure, that's prob bullshit. A few...now it's starting to get odd. All these things? Now I'm starting to wonder.

While concrete evidence is always nice, and preferable, dismissing a lot of circumstantial evidence indicates a lack of critical thinking skills (not implying that about you, just saying you shouldn't be dismissive due to the nature of the evidence).

Concrete evidence is not just "nice", it's important. And that's not how you treat circumstantial evidence. You can find coincidences endlessly if you're looking for them. It's called confirmation bias and it can terrible consequences.

Just because the only evidence you have is circumstantial does not mean that you should not investigate and likewise does not mean that it can not be compelling.

Investigating is one thing. Pretending to know something you don't is another.

If we knew, if we had concrete evidence, then there would be no need to investigate, we'd be pressing charges.

Glad to know you agree there should be an investigation though.

There should be an investigation if there is reasonable suspicion, which I don't think exists.

Not sure how much you've looked into this but there's a large number of people that have spent an awful lot of time looking into this that would disagree.

With what's at stake, I'd rather risk investigating and finding nothing than not investigate and find out at a later time that we should have.

is that the new narrative your boss's told you to spread.

nice try shill, but we're on to you.

lol

No chance. I'd say most in here just want to get to the truth, then hang the fuckers, and move on.

Pretty much my thoughts exactly

Do you not see how these two statements are a bit at odds?

We want the truth.

We want to hang them and move on.

In the second statement, you're presuming you already know the truth. You don't want to find evidence and then make a conclusion based on that evidence. You already have a conclusion and now you want to find evidence to back you up. It's backwards.

Now you are nitpicking. A better reply by me would have been, dig for hidden truth, act on truth when found if necessary, move on.

I do not want to dwell on kid fuckers any longer than need be and bet most feel the same. 911 made me feel dirty enough, this makes me wail on the inside.

I don't think anyone wants it to be true.

You are completely right. I have a 6 y.o. Daughter. This shit is too heart breaking. Glad you guys investigate it, please don't be put off by my skepticism.
Just be smart about it and remember not everyone who is skeptical about it is a shill. The top comment is right. Silsby is the best evidence for people like me.

It is heart breaking, and you should be skeptical of everything I am learning, because the truth will stand up to any level of skepticism.

wouldn't it be the opposite? heart breaking yes, but to ignore it is to allow potentially hundreds of little girls JUST LIKE YOUR DAUGHTER to be abused if not worse.

Penn State still has a football team.

I said from the beginning of that shit that they should have razed the place to the ground.

They knew Sandusky was raping kids.

All to save the team. Well, fuck college sports and the NCAA.

That's true but consider how impossible it is for any of us to stop them. It seems hopeless. And then the always true.... ignorance is bliss.

It's not impossible. It's not even hard. All it takes is for a large number of people to stand up and demand action be taken.

Yes. If they didn't care what people did, if they were invincible, this stuff wouldn't be a secret.

It IS a secret, because they know it wouldn't be tolerated.

Cognitive dissonance, My mind does not want it to be true.

Not if it's not true, which he must suspect or he wouldn't be skeptical.

And the countless people who have come forward.......

People also really really want to believe every single negative thing about a given candidate. Being that the majority of reddit is liberal, you will see more people wanting to believe the worst about Trump regardless of facts. Just like if you were to go into thedonald, or even this sub, people are way more likely to instantly believe anything negative about Clinton. It's confirmation bias compounded into echo chambers.

True. It is easy to fall into that if you let yourself get out of a neutral frame of mind.

To be fair Clinton and Trump are hardly comparable from a conspiratorial standpoint, but I agree with the concept.

I could see your statement going either way tbh

Nothing to do with liberal versus conservative (for me). Its reality versus, appropriately, conspiracy. Ochams razor, if you prefer: highest level of power being pedophiles OR, an established vulgar, liar being both caught in the act, and that act being reported on by the highest level of spy, who has a life long track record of actionable intelligence.

Duh.

Move beyond your bias. Please.

Dynacorp

It sounds like a gaming evil empire.

Dyncorp has been involved in human trafficking for DECADES. Hell, Rachel Weiss starred in a movie called "The Whistleblower" about Dyncorp (pseudonymed as Democra Security) using UN intervention in Bosnia in 1999 as a cover for human trafficking.

If you can show me a direct link between them and James Alefantis, you might actually change my opinion about Pizzagate...

But don't bother if all you can do is play 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon.

I'm vehemently anti-Trump and I don't buy into the claims being true without evidence. I also think pizzagate is probably untrue.

The difference between the two is that "pissgate" involves a credible source with actual accusations regarding events that supposedly happened. Pizzagate involves a bunch of things that look weird to people with no actual claims of something that has happened.

Credible source: 4chan hoax, in this case. This... And you sound like a bot-like shill.

Did you know the 4chan hoax angle is completely shit and doesn't actually fit the timeline of events?

Source, please. Thnx!

You wont get a source.

Mind linking to the source(s) you have found that give credibility to it all being an elaborate 4chan hoax?

Explained here: https://ibloga.blogspot.ca/2017/01/4chan-participant-explains-origins-of.html

A blog that links to a youtube video?

Just read to put this into context.

Oh I read it...

Ok, so then, um, somehow , I don’t know if it was him or one of the members of his staff – but they presented it to McMullen, uh, and then, uh, who you know what pages he’s got ties to and uh, then McMullen passed it onto McCain and then McCain passed it on to Comey an now at some point in these transactions a lot of, uh, more Russian stuff was added so that not all of this – a lot of the things were changed in it and like the Russians , uh, they put more of a Russian spin on it than what we had originally come up with.

"Somehow..."

"I don't know..."

"Russian stuff was added..."

Seems like he's very knowledgeable on the subject matter presented by our intelligence agencies.

Ok back to the main issue here. The circumstantial evidence is there (on Pizzagate), and this is just the tip of the iceberg. Dig down just a bit and you'll find the rest about Trump bland as a pure diversion. You know it's still a diversion tactic, right?

I'm still waiting on a proper source. What exactly am I supposed to "dig deeper" into?

Pizzagate, starting with the John Podesta Wikileaks files, as a starting point.

This is the source of 4chan's claims. Look at the date, Nov 1.

The dossier was produced in August.

you sound like a bot-like shill

Comments like this are ruining this subreddit. Jesus christ can we just talk about each others arguments instead of just dismissing everything and calling people shills?

There's no denying that there has been an influx of shills here since that Pissgate thread was mass upvoted by bots 2 days ago.

Mass upvoted by bots? The post was on r/all for christsake. What evidence of bots is there?

I upvoted that post just like thousands of other people did.

You know what IS fishy though? How this place turned into The_Donald2.0 and is blindly following the elected President. Let that irony sink in: r/conspiracy and its mods have sworn blind allegiance to the government of the USA.

Reddit servers were busy for 5-10 minutes right before the Pissgate story got massively upvoted. Seems like the Reddit servers couldn't handle the mass influx of bots.

Also, it was clear as day that the Pissgate thread in conspiracy was artifically upvoted. I'm assuming it was the same in other subreddits.

Im not trying to be a lazy debator here, but can you actually show me evidence from reddits servers that a flood of bots came? Im not just going to take your word for it.

I saw that post and upvoted it and then it got big. Im not a bot.

There's no way this community upvoted that thread that fast. It was clearly manipulated. Plus the fact that reddit servers went down right before these threads were massively upvoted.

Do you have proof or is this just a hunch?

When you have r/EnoughTrumpSpam and r/The_Donald infesting multiple subreddits and you don't need bots to manipulate posts.

Totally agree. It's just tiring to be shot at with lame-ass arguments of the leftist agenda, which, sadly, reddit has partaken on, with quickfire downvotes and sad/not thought-out establishment defense lies that just seem automatically generated, when not encouraged by censorship, directly.... #fakenews

It must be as annoying as the naive Trump worshippers who have flooded this sub.

No, I'm just tired of the globalist agenda and the strategies that are used. But you don't see them. Trump? Let's just see how it goes..

Globalism is a part of capitalism not leftist political philosophy.

It's an hybrid between extreme left ideology/ and extreme right economics >>> Oligarchy for a few. We are slaves to the system that has been build for hundreds of years. Simple, sad.. But that will be changing if we take the stand.

What part of it is leftist? It's usually only pushed by Republicans and centrist Dems like Clinton and Obama. The real lefties like Sanders hate the trade deals.

The leftist version of globalism would also include Universal Income.

Let's say centralised and concentrated power on a global level (non-US based) by unelected people with corporate and banking interests. End of nation sovereinty, end of private property, loss of individual freedoms and rights. #LookUpAgenda21

Having the world run by corporations is not a leftist policy.

Communist ideology, extreme right economics, to be precise, in this case. The worst of the two sides.

The 4chan things already been debunked. Nothing about the timeline and info of that made sense. Yeah I'm a robot shill check out my twitter for my fake 4 year persona buildup to discredit pizzagate

No, you're effectively a different person. Duh. Thanks anyway.

Wait what lol

Why is calling people a shill the first tactic people always go for? Do you have such a low opinion of the critical thinking skills of people in this sub that you have to resort to calling people who disagree with you shills because you think that's actually convincing of an argument somehow? Why not just go full Godwin and call them a Nazi if you're going to just sling around insults and personal attacks because you don't have anything of substance to add?

I imagine it's easy mentally. Rather than actually face a differing opinion, they can just call the person a shill and dismiss the whole argument. People that do it have already made up their mind on an issue, and no evidence will ever change their opinion

Because Reddit as been coopted, like FB and Google. But hey, I'm probably just a «conspiratard» to say such things. gn gn gn gn.

Why do people act like 4chan is some super-secret underground website? Don't you think intelligence agencies have it monitored and would know?

Ex MI6 who fled.. BuzzFeed.. possibly 4chan involved..

You do realize that his report was delivered to the FBI by John McCain before it was leaked to the press. Buzzfeed is just one of the few outlets that decided to actually leak the entire dossier

You do realize that his report was delivered to the FBI by John McCain before it was leaked to the press.

You make it sound like the documents are real because McCain delivered them to the FBI. A politician who receives questionable documents, real or fake, will deliver them to the FBI.

I'm saying that his in terms of people saying its a story buzzeed found. It wasn't a buzzeed exclusive.

Ex MI6 who fled

He fled because his name leaked and he's in danger. One of the claims in the dossier was that Carter Page allegedly met with the head of Rosnet (Russia's state-owned oil company) who offered Trump a 19% privatized stake Rosnet (worth $11 Billion) if he were elected President and ended sanctions against Russia.

Well, on December 7th, Rosnet privatized 19.5% of Rosnet, in the process creating a shell company in the Caymans called QHG Cayman. Also, the chief of staff for the head of Rosnet, who might've been Steele's source on the meeting, was found dead in the back of his company car.

It isn't a credible source when information contained was proven false

What information has been proven false? I have only seen some mistranslated words and a picture of a passport that proves nothing; as travel does not require stamps in situation that was presented.

It's come out that it was a different Cohen in Prague at the time. That's already been reported days ago..

I think this exactly right.

Also, it is hard for me is to think that much of our government is compromised if this is true (as I believe it to be).

This creates a crisis in government, in addition to a deep moral and spiritual crisis over the fates of these children.

Seriously.

Did he pee on children? No? OK, an adult? Was he/she consenting? Yes?

kthanxbye.

The light that shined on Pizzagate originate by a single email out of 35,000 about a handkerchief that mentioned pizza.

The trump deal is a 35 page report memo that circulated around the CIA, FBI for weeks.

The difference in the two is All the evidence about pizzagate is imaginary and more imaginary connections are constantly being made.

The Trump Scandal has 1 piece of evidence, with tons of news articles, tweets, and other reports that can collaborate with what's on the dossier.

The difference between the two is you can Google Trump and Russia, while Pizzagate requires imagination.

You didn't do your homework :(

Gossipy allegations like pissing on a hooker or whatever are a lot less serious than allegations of a massive child sex trafficking ring.

Gossipy allegations of a rich businessman hiring two russian prostitutes while visiting Moscow are a lot more plausible than allegations that the most influential people in washington are running a massive child sex trafficking ring.

also that they have a satanic kill room under a pizza parlor used for dismembering their victims.

They don't even have a basement!

Fuck no. Do some research. Please

To be fair, people said that about British celebrities like Saville.

I was expecting a comment about priests, but you are also not wrong.

Too bad that never happened. Too bad for the brainwashed Hitlery-tards, I mean, since they'll have to keep resorting to brigades like these in a failing attempt to convince people of their narratives, despite zero evidence.

Zero evidence.

Yeah, there is Zero Evidence, that is why it's gossip. There is zero evidence that it did not happen, yet you choose to state that it is impossible.

If I saw a grainy video of DT and two very classy call girls, It would not shatter my illusions.

Fine. Let's see it then.

It's possible, but my gut tells me that shit does not exist. This whole thing smells like a professional smear campaign.

4chan puppets.

You're foolish if you think that's the biggest part of the dossier, and not that Russia was cultivating Trump for at least 5 years and have control over him.

TBQH, this whole thing is getting tiring. Until yesterday russia supported trump because they are "friends", today they are supporting him because they want to undermine him. Decide which one it is. One day trump is a traitor because he's a russian spy, next day he is an unwilling puppet of the masterful russian masterminds. Again, decide.

Well, I don't think anyone seriously believed he was a russian spy. But yes, people sometimes change their opinions when new information comes to light. Being willing to change your beliefs when new information comes in sounds pretty reasonable to me.

I think Putin, ex-KGB and all, would be happy to try and blackmail a friend--it's just business, Donald, you understand.

Isn't that just spycraft 101? Befriend a mark, use that trust to allow the mark to be worked into a compromising situation, record evidence of the situation, use as controlling leverage against them.

There is no inconsistency. The theory is that the Russians prefer Trump because they think his policies will benefit them. They then took actions to promote his election. The garnered compromising information to "lock in" his commitment to serve Russian interests with the threat of undermining him.

At least, that's the narrative that Hitlery-drones have fabricated and pushed via downvote brigades, despite no evidence.

critical thinking skills will lead you in the same direction

Its all about sowing discourse in American confidence in order to destabilize the government. Look how busy you are.

Meanwhile, you don't have health insurance anymore because top earners got their way. Man, poor people are sure dumb.

And you're playing directly into the Soros funded plan by buying up the fabricated narratives he's pushing. Good job. You're such a skeptic.

I have health insurance. Can't wait until my friends and family can afford to buy it again either.

Lots of lefty conspiritards here.

this whole thing is getting quite tiring

I've got some bad news for you friend. If he continues to cross the press and intelligence, he will empower resourceful people that will take pleasure in destroying his administration.

You ain't seen nothin yet.

Do you think the Russian's breached the DNC as well, getting them to "elevate" Trump in the primaries not really to have an easy completely beatable opponent, but also to make sure their man got the Republican nomination?

You're foolish if you're still clinging to the debunked narrative of the fabricated dossier, which has already been debunked by CNN of all places.

Next you'll claim, in typical Hitlery-drone fashion, that CNN are just Trump supporters huuurrrrr durrr.

Where has CNN debunked the dossier? Sure, the dossier has unverified information, but I haven't seen any evidence of anything within it being debunked (yes, I am skeptical about it's contents, but nearly everything I've heard about the stuff inside from people here have been false eg Obama sex dolls).

Next you'll claim, in typical Hitlery-drone fashion, that CNN are just Trump supporters huuurrrrr durrr.

Why is it that whenever someone criticises Trump, Trump supporters cling to talking about Hillary? Nobody cares about her anymore except Trump supporters because they want someone to deflect to.

Pretty sure at least one detail was that the Cohen in the report is not Trump's Cohen.

The biggest thing that makes me skeptical is Trump has a history of being a germaphobe. Here's an article from 6 years ago about it: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2011/02/does_donald_trump_have_a_glad-.html

I'm starting to think this guy is a dedicated Russian shill.

you should read the allegations if all you think its about is trump wanting hookers to piss on a bed.

Except the stuff about Michael Cohen has been debunked thoroughly, by CNN of all places, which is why no one but Hitlery-drones coming to brigade from r/politics actually care about it at all.

Since you know, it never actually happened and there's evidence that IT DIDN'T, but none that it did.

Evidence, how does it work (Hitlery-tards don't know).

Except the stuff about Michael Cohen has been debunked thoroughly, by CNN of all places, which is why no one but Hitlery-drones coming to brigade from r/politics actually care about it at all.

Actually it hasn't. Michael Cohen was in Prague. It's just not the Michael Cohen that people originally believed.

Hmm, then should we discuss why Epstein had over 1r different numbers for Trump? And why Trump said he liked that Epstein had an appreciation for very young women?

You're all trying to bury the actual juicy conspiracy stuff. It's pathetic. The sex stuff is meaningless. Clearly there's a collaborative effort to try to frame this as a sex thing when it's actually about possible collusion with a foreign power. Trump team now admitting to a shady phone call they initially denied. This is what government conspiracy is all about. This is the shit this sub used top read and say "it makes you think." Now automatically denied, mischaracterized, and obfuscated.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ba462d64c12d4692b8381cb7076d34ab/ap-source-trump-aide-frequent-contact-russia-envoy

both are fake distractions.

Lol knew it. You harbor a closed mind. Enjoy living life like that. My condolences

Personally I think one is WAY more believable than the other.

Which one?

Indeed!

lol

I wonder which one every person who upvoted you thought you were talking about

Shhhh hopefully pissgate shhhh

How about we do this thing of "objective" contemplation??

On the one hand we have a known, established MI6 analyst bringing forth allegations. This is followed with the US intel leadership providing material establishing the claims validity.

On the other hand we have various vigilantes stalking a business to "find" nefarious details. Such as dubious videos of "underground tunnels" which "prove" ... I don't know what, but something to those who make the leap of faith to "believe" the claims.

This shown how little either the mass-media consumer sheeple or the self styled "skeptical" sheeple of alt-media are able to understand or assimilate the technical details of what they read/hear and find even harder to have a "I don't like that truth, but will accept it" perception.

Instead, both these groups are easily led by the narrative which most appeals to them.

The fundamental problem, which has not yet been addressed in the widespread cluster fuck of "fake news" is that the Establishment and it's Democratic Process is subordinate to an entrenched, archaic and misguided notion of "State Secret."

It's no surprise that the voting masses (whether "sheeple", "skeptic", "self-aware" or kazoo blowing yokel) have no trust in anything "Establishment", have a deep desire to over throw the current system, and are willing to trust any half-baked, obviously wrong and bigoted claims made by whomever this group perceives as being "outside" the "system" ... falsely believing that "an outsider" can bring about "change."

The list of populist demagogues is long through history (as is the havoc wrought by them), and extremely difficult to gain-say until long after the tides of History have flushed the flotsam of their Bullshit out of the popular zeitgeist.

On the one hand we have a known, established MI6 analyst bringing forth allegations.

Appeals to authority are not evidence, sorry, try again.

You'd think you Hitlery-supporter brigaders would actually try to come up with something other than the same tired old logical fallacies.

Appeal to authority != evidence.

Claims != evidence.

Your feelings != evidence.

You can go back to your echo chamber over at r/politics now.

Having authority lends wait to arguments and evidence.

You don't believe the homeless guy on the streets about his visions, like I don't believe some subs and chans about the pizzagate stuff.

But someone with a position and knowledge coming from authority is absolutely evidence. You can question the legitimacy of said authority, even speculate on its bias, but it's still better evidence than a bunch of randos on 4chan learning about metaphor.

Argument from authority from the very first sentence.

A well known way to make a valid case.

Actually the exact opposite.

It's important to note that this fallacy should not be used to dismiss the claims of experts, or scientific consensus. Appeals to authority are not valid arguments, but nor is it reasonable to disregard the claims of experts who have a demonstrated depth of knowledge unless one has a similar level of understanding and/or access to empirical evidence

Ans that's bad how? You're citing the authority fallacy. It's usually only used in cases like citing the opinion of a nuclear physicist on how to run the economy. That is an appeal to authority, guy knows his shit on a specific topic and you're sourcing him on a topic he knows nothing about. This is the exact opposite, we have an ex MI6 agent with decades of experience working in Russia.

It's not called crazy and stupid. The shills are saying as propaganda.

Honestly, I think a flimsy amount of evidence exists for both. The difference is that #Pissgate serves the interests of the powerful, whereas #Pizzagate does not.

That is where I am at on them too. I think the response to pizzagate is puzzling. If a bunch of internet denizens made a huge fuss trying to make me out to be part of some huge kidfucker ring, I would be out there defending myself tooth and nail with media and lawyers.

But then you'd be giving it credence, and wasting resources which end up publicizing it more.

Pissgate serves the interests of the powerful

Like the President-Elect of the US?

The President-Elect will have little real power. The real power is and will be in the hands of the deep state.

Yeah, all he can do is:

nominate SCOTUS justices

excercise military force unilaterally

veto any and all legislation

use the bully pulpit to push an agenda

appoint administrative officials

and like a milllion other things

...but yeah, he's powerless.

All of this he does at the behest of the people with real power, i.e. those who finance him, and control the business sector of the country. That's why there was such opposition to Trump; narcissistic bonehead he may be, he has no ties to the military-industrial complex, Wall Street, etc.

What the fuck are you talking about? Trump has 5 Wall Streeters on staff, it might even be six, and that's just Goldman Sachs. The Treasury nominee is a second generation Goldman partner for Christ's sake.

Yes, this is my whole point. They WERE against him, during the election, because he was an outsider who was antagonistic toward him. Now they're not, because he's filling his cabinet with them, probably because he was instructed to.

This is just...wrong. Scaramucci, Mnuchin, and Bannon have been Trump backers the entire campaign. Mnuchin wrote Trump's tax plan for crying out loud.

Mnuchin left GS and started a competing firm in 2002.

Regardless...He founded that firm with Soros.

Negative. He briefly worked for a Soros firm between GS and starting his own.

Not my favorite guy, but it seems you guys are constantly leaving out hugely relevant facts.

Are you talking about SFM or Dune Capital which received millions of dollars from Soros? Or IndyMac/OneWest which was formed by Mnuchin and to which Soros was a partner? Am I leaving out hugely relevant facts, or are you?

SFM was the Soros firm that he worked for briefly. Dune Capital is the competing firm to SFM & GS.

IndyMac/OneWest was purchased, iirc, and then sold. Soros was a partner while Dune owned it? That would be news I was unaware of. If that's what you're saying, I would definitely be interested in reading about it. Got a source?

Mnuchin brokered the IndyMac deal and then ran the bank with Soros as partner (among others) before it was sold. Source.

That's a good read. Now we're talking /r/conspiracy !

Youre defending GS alumni running our government?

I'm not defending him.

I'm pointing out that it's conveniently ignored that he has been a GS competitor for 15 years.

If we want to talk about the evils of GS involvement, we could spend some time talking about Hillary's speeches, if you would like.

His firm worked FOR GS not against them.

And why are you afraid to talk about Trumps other GS picks? I didnt vote for Hillary, so I dont give a shit what she said months ago and what she might have done. Why dont we talk about the ACTUAL president elect and how hes given GS a free pass to do whatever they want?

He worked for GS until ~2002. Left for SFM. Then started Dune Capital, a competing firm.

I'm not "afraid" to talk about other "GS picks". We're simply talking about this one at the moment.

No, you were trying to bring up Hillary. Why are you so OK with Trumps love of GS?

Oh yea Mnuchin was a member of Skull and Bones while at Yale. Is that fine with you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Mnuchin

Oh and guess who Mnuchin's partner was at his hedge fund? George Soros! Awesome!

No, you were trying to bring up Hillary.

No, I was offering to give undeniable proof that she was working with them and giving wonderfully supportive speeches to them, promising to help them out, during the campaign. So with her we have confirmation of her ties to GS.

Why are you so OK with Trumps love of GS?

Because in his cabinets case, everybody who has a tie to GS severed those ties years before the 2016 campaign, competed with them, and basically acted like a normal financial manager - so definitively not a love of GS, but rather people who have moved beyond GS.

Oh yea Mnuchin was a member of Skull and Bones while at Yale. Is that fine with you?

I'm missing the Skull & Bones reference there. Are you saying he was S&B just because he went to Yale?

Oh and guess who Mnuchin's partner was at his hedge fund? George Soros! Awesome!

SFM was GS company that he worked for briefly. I've asked for a source to the claims that GS was a partner at Dune or IndyMac/Onewest. Do you have a source on that?

PS Dune capital was NOT a competing firm

Now there you're just wrong. Anybody who has ever looked into investments knows otherwise. It's like going to buy a car and knowing Ford and GM offer competing products.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_Mnuchin

At Yale, Mnuchin was publisher of the Yale Daily News,[9] and was also initiated into the exclusive society Skull and Bones in 1985

and then

After he left Goldman Sachs in 2002, Mnuchin briefly worked as vice-chairman of hedge fund ESL Investments, that is owned by his Yale roommate Edward Lampert.[17] The following year, he established the company SFM Capital Management together with financier George Soros.

Skull & Bones

Interesting & noted.

SFM Capital Management

SFM was established in 1969.. So not sure why Mnuchins page is giving him any credit. He worked for them the year he left GS. You got something better on this?

Can you just tell me how Trumps 5 Goldman Sachs alum cabinet members are good for this country?

Remember how Obama appointed Tom Wheeler to the FCC and everybody flipped out about how he was telecom shill? He ended up doing a lot of good and making some awesome anti-corporate decisions.

GS is huge. So huge that they have become "too big to care", which is the problem with GS. Also so huge that almost anybody who goes into a wall street career goes through them at some point. You're going to be hard pressed to find someone who is qualified for something like Treasury Sec that hasn't worked with them at some point. Bannon, for example, never rose high enough or stayed long enough to be anyone of consequence in the decision making levels of GS. The GS people I'm aware of are people who left GS to do their own thing. In the case of Mnuchin, starting his own business directly competing for customer dollars.

Mnuchin is probably the most questionable that I'm aware of, rising to a damn high position. But seems to have hit a "fuck this I'm out" point.

If he turns out to be a Wheeler type, wonderful.

The Skull&Bones thing has been noted though.

Has Mnuchin actually been formally announced by Trump?

Mainstream media, Wall Street, the Democratic establishment, the Republican establishment, the intelligence agencies/military-industrial complex, etc., were all against Trump.

For the record, I'm against Trump, too. But there's a wealth of proven, verifiable information which shows that the president is more of a figurehead of an unchanging "deep state" than he is a powerful entity himself. If you're looking for a strong, verifiable starting point, you can begin [here]{https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2014/10/18/vote-all-you-want-the-secret-government-won-change/jVSkXrENQlu8vNcBfMn9sL/story.html).

Are you purposely ignoring the current establishment?

The GOP?

Yes. And the DNC.

Is the President not powerful? Because Pizzagate serves his interests and Pissgate doesn't

If #Pizzagate were real, it'd have wide-reaching effects all across areas of government, and would spell bad news for both parties. It serves no one's interests.

Pizzagate is real just like The Apprentice was real.

If the Apprentice isn't real how can our Pizzagate be real?

Possibly the dumbest leap I've seen yet from the Hitlery-supporters.

What's dumb about it? Cheeto Benito and his supporters want Pizzagate to be true and will obviously do anything to discredit Pissgate

When it is said that there is no evidence for Pizzagate, it should be countered by using Laura Silsby as the main piece of evidence. Laura Silsby was caught trying to leave Haiti with 33 children who weren't even orphans. One of the first things Hillary did when she took over the scene in Haiti was to get Laura off the hook. Also, there's hundreds of emails where Hillary mentions Silsby or Huma sends Hillary information about Silsby.

http://harvardhrj.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/King.pdf

you and your facts.

Here are the facts on that (not my research).

First off, we need some context.

Pizzagate investigators cite this document as proof that "One of the first things the Clintons did when they took over the scene in Haiti was to have Bill get Laura off the hook."

But it's not true according to their own link. The linked document says:

Clinton brokered the release of all the missionaries, except for the group leader, Laura Silsby.

Interesting non-essential side note, if you look at this shameful, monumentally embarrassing tweet from Wikileaks where they link to an early pizzagate thread on the_youknowwho, you can see the original formulation was that "One of the first things Hillary did when she took over the scene in Haiti was get Laura Silsby off the hook..." This has been edited to say "the Clintons" instead of "Hillary" because the linked 46-page document doesn't even mention Hillary's name. And besides, "the Clintons took over the scene?" The outcome for Silsby was determined by a trial with a judge and lawyers and testimony from the parents of the "orphans" and all kinds of neat non-Clinton-y stuff.

So what happened to Silby?

Despite Silsby’s stated intent to take the children over the border to an unauthorized orphanage and her connections to human traffickers such as Torres-Puello, the courts eventually dropped the kidnapping and criminal association charges against her. Silsby was instead convicted under the additional charge of organizing illegal travel, sentenced to time served (3 months and 8 days), and released on May 17, 2010. In the end, her sentence was based on the least polemic charge against her. The pressing issue—whether Silsby intended to deliver the children into trafficking rings or grey adoption markets—was not addressed or resolved.

Rather than turning on Silsby’s actions, the decision in her case appeared to turn on the actions of the parents. Judge Bernard Saint-Vil explained that his decision was based on the Haitian parents’ testimony that they had “[given] their kids away voluntarily.” Similarly, defense lawyer Jorge Puello stated that the missionaries “willingly accepted kids they knew were not orphans because the parents said they would starve otherwise.” Another trial attorney for the missionaries, Aviol Fleurant, argued that “[t]he parents’ testimony means no law was broken and ‘we can’t talk any more about trafficking of human beings.’”

More bombshells about the people who were "trafficking in Haitian orphans," from the same document. Pizzagate investigators will never highlight or mention this:

The Americans denied any wrongdoing and said they had been trying to help children left orphaned and destitute by the Haitian earthquake. They said Puello had approached their relatives and church, offering his help. It turned out that the children who were with the U.S. missionaries had living parents, many of whom testified they had voluntarily handed their offspring to the Americans in the hope they would be given an education and a better life.

Pizzagate theorists will point to a lawyer Torres to try to make Silsby and crew look worse, but just read this excerpt from an ICE News Release to put it all into context:

In early 2010, Torres surfaced in the Dominican Republic posing as a lawyer representing American church workers detained in Haiti in the wake of the earthquake in that country. Torres convinced a church that he was Jorge Torres Puello, an international lawyer and president of "Puello Consulting" in the Dominican Republic.

Torres obtained a monetary retainer from the families of the detained missionaries and began representing himself to the Haitian court and international media as the attorney/spokesman for them. However, U.S. authorities recognized him as Jorge Torres when media reports showed images of the "alleged" lawyer wearing a suit and carrying a brief case.

An extradition package was prepared and sent to representatives in the Dominican Republic. Torres was arrested, detained and extradited to the United States to face the 2003 alien smuggling charges in Vermont. He pleaded guilty to the charges.

To sum up this Torres business, the dude faked his identity, offered his services (as in HE approached THEM), bamboozled the missionaries, pretended to be their lawyer until he got extradited.

So Bill Clinton was asked to go in and straighten this business out. Hillary Clinton emailed someone for details about the situation. There are so many leaps that have to be made here to get to satanic-pedo-ritual-sex-slavery ring it's not even funny.

And so, after all this, Pizzagate investigators go berserk over this this email "where they are literally pricing how much it costs to transport children" but it's just a synopsis of a fucking charity organization. Nothing more, nothing less.

Reasonable skeptics think pizzagate is preposterous.

Reactionary conspiracists with poor logic skills think it's iron clad.

Cat's out of the bag though, like chem trails or vaccines, no matter how much evidence to the contrary comes up, I doubt this conspiracy will die within our life times.

And blanket statements on /r/conspiracy prove you're a moron.

Chem trails are real though. Governments have experimented with dumping chemicals into the air. Vaccines have caused harm. The question is of degree not true/false

Awesome.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1002/S00108.htm

What am I supposed to be looking for?

Clinton has already negotiated a deal to get all but Laura Silsby freed[xxix] (she obviously should have worn her blue dress that day...), showing how much HE gives a toss about what UNICEF has to say.

So... Bill Clinton (not Hillary) negotiated to have everyone BUT Silsby released. Pizzagate confrimed!

Assuming pizzagate is real Bill and Hillary are both involved. I assumed they're talking about Hillary, as she was the SOS at the time and probable had more inside political pull than Bill, not to say that he isn't involved in Pizzagate, assuming it is eventually found to be real.

The quote uses "he" not "she" so they're talking about Bill.

Silsby got a sentence based on the technical letter of the law but willingly accepting a fee for giving your children (or any person) away is trafficking/slavery and endangerment. This allows well connected political persons (Clintons) who know how it works, to actively maneuver around it. Silsby was taking them to an unauthorized orphanage. If this were legit, this wouldn't have been the case. It also doesn't explain for the parents who were outraged when this happened. Not every testimony was that of "we willingly gave away our child".

Clinton brokered the release of all the missionaries, except for the group leader, Laura Silsby.

Perhaps they tried but were, in fact, unsuccessful (perhaps because local people were outraged that they just tried to steal/traffick 33 children and weren't going to let this beezy get off the hook) which would explain the quote you listed before this and why they weren't able to get her charges dropped. Also, if someone you are highly connected to suddenly has some crazy charges against them (murder, trafficking, rape) it's amazing how quickly friends/acquaintances and the like disappear. It's called distancing yourself for fear of association and typically the people with the most to hide, distance themselves the furthest. That would explain why there is zero mention of Hillary in the report and explicitly getting everyone involved released except her furthers my belief that it's because they were tied so closely together.

Perhaps Torres was the middle man so they kept their hands clean. He approaches the families, makes a financial offer families can't refuse, moves the kids, delivers them to Silsby, and then collects his money.

The smartest thing to do when committing a crime is to hide in plain sight. No offender involved in Pizzagate is going to walk up to someone (outside the inner circles) and say "I would like 1 child please. I'm going to take them home and rape, torture, and drug them". Those expecting to find that type of "smoking gun" are wasting their precious time. For a lot of the elite, the higher you get in society, the more it becomes about the subtlety of something. I.e. Hidden in plain sight.

That was a shitpost, mate.

Everyone has an opinion. Not everything that goes down in life has proof or evidence and I am posting in a conspiracy sub sooooooo

Perhaps they tried but were, in fact, unsuccessful

So this is the "proof" that is the

using Laura Silsby as the main piece of evidence

from what Gadfly posted. Doesnt seem like a very legitimate accusation now does it?

If the main piece of evidence is that the clintons may have tried doing something (of which there is no evidence of) but didnt end up doing it (of which there is evidence of) then you are effectively claiming that the clintons are culpable for this for the sole reason that they didn't do it.

Fantastically done, thank you

Man this is even more interesting than the fiction that gets passed around. I guess it is true what they say, truth is stranger.

Nothing more, nothing less.

You seem a little to sure. Here's why.

The pressing issue whether Silsby intended to deliver the children to a trafficking rings or grey adoption markets was not addressed or resolved

https://i.sli.mg/QmbkNd.jpg

She was caught in Haiti and jailed for trying to traffic 33 children and the first thing the Clinton Foundation did when they moved into Haiti was Hillary pardoned her, and she now creepily works on the board of directors for a company called AlertSense that is in charge of issuing amber alerts. https://www.alertsense.com/company/executive-team/ (Laura Silsby-Gayler)

The lawyer Hillary used to help absolve Laura also was a convicted child trafficker, you just can't make this stuff up.

So basically, a woman who served time for trafficking kids in Haiti now sits on the board of a company that serves as the backbone for many local authorities when they want to issue Amber Alerts.

WikiLeaks also retweeted this story confirming it's truth and supported with emails to and from Hillary: https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/794247777756860417

WikiLeaks then confirmed Hillary has a LONG history with convicted child trafficker and kidnapper Laura Silsby, and Huma Abedin (vice chairwoman of Hillary's 2016 presidential campaign) has been forwarding emails about Laura Silsby's non government organization to Hillary for years.

Laura Silsby's NGO was The New Life Children's Refuge, the same group that was busted by Haitian authorities trying to traffic kids:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Life_Children%27s_Refuge_case

And the video below is about a bunch of Haitians protesting the evils of the Clintons, and the man protesting in the video mentions how the Clintons have exploited Haiti's resources for themselves, and even specifically mentions people in Haiti are afraid to go out at night because of fear of kidnapping. (4:48 in the video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PeO0SfCw5s&list=PLeAhFbYkBiH1sLiFUnWChhofsYQk7Mc9M&index=66

At around the 2:00 mark he even mentions Tony Rodham (Hillary's brother) is now in charge of gold mines in Haiti and sits on the gold mine's board of directors.

Many people are talking about this story, continue to spread the word!! We need justice for these crimes, and the Clintons should be in prison.

She was caught in Haiti and jailed for trying to traffic 33 children and the first thing the Clinton Foundation did when they moved into Haiti was Hillary pardoned her.

First sentence is a lie or a misrepresentation, not a good start.

First, how could Hillary issue a pardon for Silsby? Pretty sure that isn't one of the powers of secretary of state.

Second, why did Silsby serve 3 months page 11 in Haitian jail? Pretty shitty pardon if you ask me, considering that she was the ONLY one of the missionaries to be convicted of illegal activities [http://harvardhrj.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/King.pdf](page 2).

First sentence is a lie or a misrepresentation, not a good start.

The Clinton's political pull helped her get charged with organizing illegal travel instead of human trafficking. It's pretty simple.

The problem is you have no evidence for this action. Just confirmation bias.

There's circumstantial evidence. It wouldn't be a conspiracy anymore if we had complete hard evidence, now would it? It's well documented that the Clinton's (an many other politicians) surround themselves with known, convicted pedophiles. To sit here and say there's nothing there when they helped someone caught red handed smuggling children across country lines is laughable. Hell even Silsby's lawyer was a human trafficker. There's too much too ignore, and this is just a small scope into the circumstantial evidence surrounding pizzagate.

I endorse Pizzagate being investigated and discussed. Some of the "evidence" presented thus far is simply false, pure and simple. There is just as much hearsay in conspiracies as there are in corporate whoring media, this just happens as a natural consequence of our growing flood of information.

What you got for this attachment from one of Podo's emails?

You raise some great points, but I think you end up falling for the same logical fallacies you claim to be above. If you either completely believe it, or completely dismiss it, you are an idiot.

Weren't they repatriated or something?

It's a photo? What am I supposed to be getting from it?

At first glance though... isn't that the same girl crisis actor as the one taped to the table? Pizzagate confirmed!

First sentence is a lie or a misrepresentation, not a good start.

she had previously attempted to take a different group of 40 children across the border... Three days later she attempted to cross over with a second group - the 33 children again without proper documentation.

https://i.sli.mg/QmbkNd.jpg

Silsby was convicted for fucks sake. Hilary did not pardon her nor attempt to pardon her.

Silsby was convicted for fucks sake. Hilary did not pardon her nor attempt to pardon her.

Why would she need to pardon her?

The pressing issue whether Silsby intended to deliver the children to a trafficking rings or grey adoption markets was not addressed or resolved

https://i.sli.mg/QmbkNd.jpg

Or just look at George Webb'a series on Wikileaks. The web is pretty big.

When it is said that there is no evidence for Pizzagate

Anyone saying this is a fucking lying child-trafficker apologist, anyway, and probably just came over with the r/politics downvote brigades, like the one in this thread.

Did Laura Silsby donate a bunch of money to Hillary's campaign? If so, that'd explain it right there. No matter what your crime, pay money to rich politicians = get out of jail free cards.

That literally has nothing connected to anything with pizza gate

Why do these lies about no evidence keep showing up in what's supposed to be an apolitical skeptic sub? Evidence /= Proof. And I'd say intelligence from the operative who exposed FIFA is definitely evidence. Even hearsay is evidence.

Why are you trying to convince a conspiracy sub it was debunked? How about you let us discuss, debunk, and decide for ourselves?

Why are you suppressing one conspiracy theory to push another one? They are not mutually exclusive. You can believe in both, one or the other, or neither. The point is this is supposed to be a place to have all those discussions, not force your own narrative.

Why are you delegitimizing an entire packet of juicy conspiracy info by labelling it "Pissgate". Nobody cares about the piss, we care about the Siberian Candidate stuff. The fact that no discussions of it exist on the front page of r/conspiracy and the big thread about it was removed is very telling.

The most telling thing is you're pushing an opinion that Pizzagate is being suppressed, when the #1 top post on this sub right now is pro-Pizzagate. Do people here not recognize this bullshit for what it is anymore?

Because this sub has been co-opted by the_donald. The only conspiracies upvoted here are those which support the "Clinton-led pedophilic shadow government" narrative.

The irony of /r/conspiracy's support of a PEOTUS who is installing globalist billionaires into the highest levels of our government is breathtaking.

It's shows the hypocrisy of the mods and many users who frequent here. They want proof and when they get some evidence that goes against their vested interests, it's labeled as fake news. This sub should be about questioning every thing, but that seems to have gone by the wayside.

Ah yes, anyone who doesn't go along with the r/politics brigade's narrative is guilty of "hypocrisy".

Because we should just trust you, right? Like you're asking us to "trust but don't verify" these pissgate claims, which are already debunked by dozens of news outlets. Doesn't matter how many brigades you guys bring over from r/politics, brigades don't change reality.

Too bad, so sad, no one is convinced by the government-faither Hitlery-supporter brigade from r/politics.

2 day old account? Fuck off.

Retarded ad-hominem? Fuck off.

I'm honestly surprised to find out your not 100% robot.

You have used the term "Hitlery" in every single post of your two-day old account. You're the exact kind of person that this sub doesn't want here

Go back to r/politics, goverment faither.

You realize nobody gives a shit about Hillary anymore. She lost.

You can be worried about Trump AND not be a Hillary shill.

First of all, I hardly ever post in r/politics. I might check it out to see what sort of shit they are cooking up over there, but to say that I brigade anything is childish. I'm willing to give Trump as much of a chance as anyone, but I will be highly critical of him because he has shown that he doesn't give a damn about speaking the truth. I have never in my life seen a man take every position there is to take on a subject and not have his political career put in jeopardy.

The fact that so many can blindly follow him without questioning his motives or background is highly alarming to me. Him being held in low regard is nothing new either. He has been a public figure since the 80s and many people have had things to say about him that don't exactly paint him as a shining knight.

Also, enlighten me. What news outlets have debunked this? I'm looking and I can not find a single reputable source that does.

Your longed winded rant sure is evidence.

Oh wait, no, it's not. Go back to r/politics, brigading loser.

Bruh. At least come up with with an intelligent argument to fight him. You're making yourself look bad.

This sub should be about questioning every thing, but that seems to have gone by the wayside.

It seems the sub is now about making comments like this endlessly but not doing anything about it by submitting different posts.

Imagine if the people upvoting the comments complaining about a lack of diversity here actually took the time to submit different types of posts!

Which wont work because we know the mods can change peoples post context and scores.

Someone did try to submit a different type of post. It got a "hoax" flair and then got deleted.

And then they banned all discussion of it and deleted every other posts on the topic?

yeah, i remember calling out trumps picks when they first starting getting announced. I got downvoted and told hes just a smart businessman for doing so.

like the fuck happened here lol.

Today in talking to my friend I wondered, for those supporters, even the less ardent, what is the line they would need Trump to cross to see through his plans and schemes? I couldn't even guess.

Whenever Trump says or does something...anything...ask yourself what they would say if Barack Obama had done it.

He's on record claiming he assaults women, he's on record as a race baiter, he's on record being a personal friend of Vladimir Putin, he's on record cheating on Melania while she was pregnant with Baron.

They've drunk the koolaid and it's staying down.

Whenever Trump says or does something...anything...ask yourself what they would say if Barack Obama had done it.

This is what I started doing about a year ago (except subbing Clinton in), and it gave me a lot of much-needed perspective.

This is what I started doing about a year ago (except subbing Clinton in), and it gave me a lot of much-needed perspective.

This is what I started doing after the 2008 election. I had only voted once before, in 2004 (as I turned 18 in 2004), and always leaned more conservative, so I wasn't exactly jumping for joy when Obama first won.

But holy shit, the instant backlash and unabashed racism I started seeing from my peers made me stop in my tracks. I started recognizing the very same smear tactics, fear-mongering, and outright lying that the right criticized the left for utilizing during Bush years being employed by those same people attacking Obama, and they were completely shameless in it, too. They didn't have given a single shit that they were acting like hypocrites, and happily perpetuated and passed along every outrageous lie they came across about Obama.

Only once I started replacing "Obama" with "Bush" in their absurd accusations, and throwing them back in their faces, did some of them see the point I was trying to make: that they were happily allowing themselves to be manipulated through the use of confirmation bias.

But those people were few and far between, and the resulting insanity that gripped the GOP during Obama's administration only reaffirmed my decision to register as an independent at 17. This isn't an endorsement of the democratic party, either, as both sides have batshit crazy hardliners, but as of now, the right is winning whatever terrible game they're playing, and the results are terrifying.

Welcome to the real world.

I don't know where I read it (back then I wasn't on Reddit or Digg, even), but I'll be forever grateful to whoever first introduced me to the concept of confirmation bias. After reading up on it, I immediately recognized so many instances in that four year time period (between first being able to vote and starting to distance myself from the GOP) where I never thought to search out sources, let alone even question the intended or subconscious bias behind what I was being told by the people whose opinions I valued. But back in late 2008, after Obama won, and I watched the party I had loudly and proudly attached myself to with Bush, lose its absolute fucking mind over what essentially boiled down to having their decorated war vet with a long history in Washington lose out to a black democrat who was only a junior senator was the straw that broke the camel's back for plenty of Republicans, including most of my close friends and family.

Thankfully, though, a lot of my current ideologies were shaped (and, just as importantly, continue to be shaped) by allowing myself to push past that (admittedly powerful) initial urge to reject whatever goes against my narrative, and instead look past the news articles, bloggers, and talking heads who are telling me what they know I want to hear, and instead look for the overall "us versus them" theme between to the two sides. While they'll never align with each other, it's incredibly easy to compile all articles and talking points on each side of the aisle and get an almost-blatant impression of what and how we're being told to feel; one from the liberal side, one from the conservative side, and each full of just as many truths as it they are crammed with as much bullshit as they can get away with (which, in this last election cycle, was a metric fuckton).

To avoid the usual circlejerk (and another unnecessarily long comment), I'll try to do something I need to do more often, especially on Reddit, which is remind myself of this very simple truth: I am, and always will be, swayed by confirmation bias, even in the smallest of ways. Everyone is, to a certain extent, and while I like to believe I do my best to police and catch a runaway thought before it takes root, it doesn't always work, and this last election cycle has been a true test. I despise everything about Trump and his policies, so not allowing my gut reactions to immediately determine every article that paints him in a bad light as true has been a more of a challenge than I would like to admit, especially when I see myself falling for the very same emotional traps I spent eight years admonishing my conservative friends for falling into.

I avoided the default politics subreddit like the plague (as just about anyone really should), but, ironically, just as quickly and happily, subbed to EnjoughTrumpSpam knowing full well what it was being used for. I think, there, though, I can (possibly poorly) justify it in the sense that ETS isn't in any way trying to hide its bias, in the same that T_D users justify its bias by claiming the exact same thing. Apart from that, though, having to wade through the not-always-obvious clickbait to get to the real sources isn't always as easy as letting righteous indignation take over by venting about him on Facebook, simply "doing my (weak-ass) part" by sharing a link and moving on. However, as I lament the fact so many of my intelligent friends on both sides of the political divide quickly spread any link to what could be hot garbage so long as it proves them right and the other side wrong, I try to hold off on the Facebook rants until a story has at least been verified true or false. Plus, as was pointed out above, the simple technique of substituting one figure for their political opposite to see if your emotional reaction to that changes at all is a fantastic indicator of how easily you're swayed by confirmation bias.

Trump supporters have rightfully pointed out the left's unwillingness to even acknowledge a clear, biased narrative being pushed out hourly by certain companies, and by adding the self-same argument I have used so extensively over the past eight years to call out neoconservatives on their bullshit, only for them to call bullshit on the left's now-apparent similar behavior, hit home hard so hard that I actually let out a groan when I realized I had fallen back into that trap again. It had just been long enough between my personal, political paradigm shift and this election cycle that I’d nearly forgotten how easy it is to get swept up in the lies when you're only searching for one narrative.

Unfortunately, though, while I police myself like this, whatever common ground I may be able to find with Trump supporters (or at least begrudgingly admitting when they were right for calling me out on my shit) is usually quickly lost when some of Trump's more zealot-like devotees seem to take a left-leaning bias as "proof" of a greater worldwide conspiracy against them and Trump; a nefarious, far-reaching plan to stop their attempts to end globalization, plus whatever shit the Muslims/Blacks/Mexicans/Jews are cooking up this week, as though Al Jolson was playing every blatantly racist, Legion of Doom character in their paranoid little minds, plotting and executing their plans for the great White Genocide. Instead of taking things a step further after spotting the biases on both sides, and realizing that everyone is now acting so cavalier about how malleable we are in highly emotional states, that this same level of meddling with the public almost always requires government oversight in other industries, or at the very least, approval beforehand, but that’s another topic entirely. So, for whatever forward progress they made in actively recognizing those issues, they immediately took ten steps back when they all but admit they're okay with Trump's "version of things" since he's just gotta do what he's gotta do to fight back against the establishment (while blatantly ignoring just how pro-establishment Trump, and his cabinet selections, are).

tl;dr: Long story short, the bias is everywhere, and if you're the kind of person who thinks "It's only on 'their' side," or "'They're' side has more of it" while blatantly overlooking or outright encouraging equally-biased lies to perpetuate on your side, you're just as guilty as those writing and distributing that propaganda. It's become damn near impossible to avoid any level of bias now that the "if it bleeds, it leads" ideology from network news has transitioned seamlessly to the internet, encompassing every facet of life (and covering every phobia mankind can think up) that if there exists even the smallest possibility of causing a few thousand people to share a story, there are those sites with no qualms about flat making shit up, while others may draw the line at outright fabrication, but will take the potential hit of having to print a canned retraction later if it turns out to be false. If you're reading this and thinking of very specific instances where some company you hate pulled shit like this, I promise you there are just as many instances of some company you think has your best interest at heart pulling the exact same stunts, but usually in a way you agree with so "it's not so bad." This may seem obvious to some (or even most) of you, but I guarantee you it’s not so clear to others (and even some of you claiming otherwise, as confirmation bias and denial are so very similar). And since someone just mentioning the phrase “confirmation bias” in passing, on some webpage I visited eight years ago, had such a lasting and profound effect on me during a similarly tumultuous political climate, it seems necessary to repeat, especially now that both sides have dropped all pretenses or senses of decorum and are so blatant in their lies that it only takes a cursory Google search to disprove that it makes you wonder how they thought they were going to get away with it. Then, you realize they expect to get away with it (and will) because a large enough majority are now so willingly nodding along to whatever they hear so long it fits the narrative they’ve romanticized, built-up, or in a lot of cases, completely made up.

That has to be the record for the longest reply to a 5 word comment ever.

Well thought out, well written, and full of so much truth.

I tip my hat to you.

Haha, I completely agree (about the length of the comment and your point). Thank you for the kind words!

I know you're a stranger on the internet, but I feel really proud of you after reading that (and not in a condescending way).

Same boat, completely agree with you. As a fellow independent, our roles will become more important as each side drift further and further from the center.

tl;dr: I agree. Moderates and those who align themselves to the middle by default are a quietly dying breed; or maybe they're not, maybe it really is just one of those "vocal minority" situations, but it doesn't feel like it. It now feels like the old "vocal minority," who pestered us with early morning sound bites set as our alarm tones, but were otherwise easy to drown out, have been replaced by a couple dozen 25-to-40-year-olds who literally follow our every footstep, only inches behind, bull-horns in hand and switching between spewing today's dead-horsed buzzword and calling us pieces of filth who are less than human for daring to ever make them feel guilty about just how awful they are towards humanity in general.

Even my few remaining moderate republican friends ("few remaining" as in most have gone full alt-right, not in that we've cut ties) are finally showing concern over seeing their party being eroded from the inside-out by sycophantic hardliners who knew exactly how to play the demographic against itself. My response was cutting ties with the GOP and reevaluating nearly every political (and, by some extensions, moral) ideology I had tentatively held before; their response seems to be flat denial. Although, to be fair, they've had another near-decade's worth of holding on to those ideologies to deal with, too. It's not as though I spent 20 years of my adult life leaning right only to change up in my 40s; they were really nothing more than ideologies I had co-opted from adults around me when I was in my teens, and never bothered to look into.

That said, 2008-09 was still a very surreal time period for me, not only because I was calling into question my own prejudices after realizing I formed nearly every major political alignment I held out of a gut reaction from the 2003 invasion (I very much bought into the "fighting for democracy" bullshit at 16), but also because my mind couldn't reconcile the fact of just how childish and petty the right was acting over Obama's 2008 win.

It was so pathetic, in fact, that I doubted I would ever see that kind of behavior again, yet with each passing year, house Republicans continued to show just how low they were willing to go. But what took the cake was that those very people, both politicians and citizens alike, started going on self-satisfied rants about how "Trump won, so stop complaining," as though they hadn't spent the past eight years going well past complaining about Obama; as though they still don't continue to propagate so-thoroughly-debunked "conspiracy theories" that you have to wonder what 12-year-old binged on Alex Jones videos for a week-and-a-half, thought, "I could do better," then swiped a few of his Dad's beers before penning yet another opus showcasing a stunning lack in originality by ultimately ruining the Scooby-Doo reveal at the end, because, you guessed it, it was The Jews^TM all along.

As bad as the conspiracy theories are, it's nothing compared to the large majority of my Trump supporting friends who are seemingly so quick to ignore their own past behavior and very-public comments about Obama, liberals, etc. A college buddy of mine went so far as to congratulate himself on the hilarious delusion that if "Clinton had won, I'd have accepted it and moved on," when he had just made a post, only days prior, talking about the " real action" he'd take if Clinton won; that her securing the position was undeniable proof of treason, and that all Democracy-loving Americans should seriously consider Trump's "words" on how to deal with another 4 years of a liberal-run country (as in, that not-so-subtle "second amendment" line from August) Literally only days before smugly jerking himself off over the idea of how level-headed and logical he was for "staying above the fray," he was strongly insinuating that "true Patriots" should take up arms against their country should Clinton have won. As much as I felt like calling that shit out publicly (because there's nothing quite as satisfying as watching a hardliner backpedal when they realize they may have revealed their hand too soon), I forced myself to remember the person behind the rhetoric, and messaged him instead, simply pointing out that it his claims of being okay with a Clinton presidency ring really false when the very next post on his Timeline is talking about "taking REAL action" against Clinton. No hyperbole or petty name-calling, just pointing that one thing out. I got the best response I could have hoped for in that he didn't respond, but did delete or hide the post about taking action against Clinton soon after.

Remembering the person is so important, and has been a huge fucking challenge this election cycle. Even after I started leaning more left, I never forgot just how easy it was to get sucked up into those lies and rhetoric, all while convincing yourself that "it must be true if everyone else thinks so, too." So, in that regard, I've always tried my hardest to remember the person behind the politics, at least when it comes to those in my personal life. When I leaned heavily conservative, I didn't have any ill intentions, but I did come to some wildly misguided conclusions based on statements that I just assumed to be the truth from a young age, as opposed to finding out for myself, or, at the very least, questioning the narrative being displayed. So, even when I could only watch in mild horror as the Tea Party and birther movement spread through the GOP faster than herpes through a whorehouse, I told myself to remember the person when it came to those I know and love who are likely getting swept up in the fervor, as going on the offensive and acting pissed off right out the gate, without so much as attempting to hear their side, only ever causes people to defend their stances even harder.

For example, when my Dad started regurgitating literal sound bites from Fox News about Obama being born in Africa, it was easy to remember that this is my Dad, a man I love and respect, and not some caricature of the prototypical souless conservative that others had created (and one I was starting to agree with, even though I hated the thought of it). So, I just calmly pointed out that the birther story had already been debunked, and he countered for a few minutes until I had to pull out my phone and do the least amount of research possibly needed to disprove an obvious lie, yet a step enough people don't seem to take (or one they undertake only in the hopes they'll be right, otherwise ignoring all the evidence to the contrary should they be wrong).

But you know what? It worked, at least to an extent. While he felt embarrassed because he had been telling anyone who would listen about his "misgivings over Obama's heritage," he was mostly upset about how he hadn't even questioned it when he first heard it. He just accepted it because of his view of the democratic party, and never bothered to check for himself.

He still is, and likely always will be, a Republican, or, at least, the kind of Republican he feels the party stood for in the oh-so-glorious Reagan years (which, don't even get me started on the amount of disillusionment I felt over learning about him after 18 years of him being canonized in my house). However, in the years since the birther conversation, the number of emails I get that qualified for ForwardsFromGrandma and the amount of times he's gone on a rant about what liberals are trying to do now have dropped dramatically. Maybe he's just recognizing that he's got an uphill battle with me in terms of trying to "bring me back to the flock," and not bothering. Honestly, though, I like think it's because he had a smaller, but still important, moment like I did in that he recognized a character flaw and tried to course-correct as much as possible.

The problem is, though, that my dad's reaction to finding out he had believed in, and perpetuated, a lie about a politically and ideologically different person has been rare. For every one person (on both sides) who is willing to accept that they'd been duped (and some will even go on to call themselves out for spreading misinformation), there are 100 who double-down on the denial and group-think, giving themselves wholly over to the whims and delusions of a billionaire CEO whose closest brush with any level of adversity is legitimately feeling victimized over being called out for the abhorrent shit he does and says on a daily basis. And all from his gilded Manhattan high rise, a view from which he has figuratively and literally looked down on the every class below his his entire life.

Save for extreme cases like the Westboro Baptist Church, KKK, and the many militant groups on both sides, I spent the past eight years looking past the politics and remembering that people have very personal reasons for their political alignment, even if they're poorly formed. But the moment David Duke endorsed Trump, and Trump tried to pretend he was horrified that the once-leader of America's oldest hate group would align himself wholly with all of Trump's policies, I knew things were going to be different.

When Trump straight up mocked a disabled person (oops, sorry, was "doing a standard retard" impression, according to Anne Coulter), I knew all sense of decorum was long gone. The very fact people were even debating that Trump was mocking a retarded person, a disabled person, or just "doing a character" made the whole thing worse; it was as though everyone else got the memo and made an unspoken agreement to just argue about his intentions behind the actions as opposed to having any proper sense of shame the fact that the man leading their party only has enough self-control to stop halfway through calling someone a retard during a speech.

This election killed so much of my compassion and empathy, and I'm doing my best to let it grow back, but the vocal fuckery won't let that happen any time soon.

Just imagine what they would say if Obama stepped on stage for his inauguration trailing five kids from three different wives....

A black guy with multiple baby mamas? Shouldn't be too hard to guess where they'd stand.

Really, is this sub fucked too? Really?

There was 2 candidates people.

DAE ALL DRUMPF SUPPORTERS BAD?'bbkd!!?!??

You're not helping yourself here.

And now there are zero candidates and one President. Donald Trump is the President Elect and Hillary Clinton is just another private citizen. This continued obsession with her is bizarre.

But her emails! /s

Whole lotta confirmation bias going around. People don't want to be wrong, so they use whatever they can to prove that they were "right", or even that they just chose the lesser evil or something.

Point is, they're shirking their duties as good citizens by not criticizing that which they voted for. You can vote for people and yet still disagree with things they say and do. Criticism is good, criticism is right. People would have criticized Hillary if she got elected. But she didn't, Trump did, and now people are trying to criticize him, but it's not Trump supporters.

I'm starting to think there are some major mommy issues at play.

Don't forget being on record talking about Epstein, articles about him walking into the female dressing room for his teen pageants, the lawsuit about him raping a 13 year old, those really weird clips of him talking to little girls and saying how he'd be dating them when they got older, and I'm sure there's someone else there too that I'm missing.

Trump's comments about Epstein's predilection for young women (in some old magazine profile of Epstein long preceding the revelation of the man's sexual misdeeds) do not necessarily indicate Trump's knowledge of illegal activity. One could argue that the casual nature of his remarks - the fact that he would comment upon it at all - instead demonstrates innocent obliviousness to illegal activity.

Here's Trump shortly before announcing saying Bill Clinton has an Epstein island problem: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAmt8Hm25g0

That rape lawsuit was likely a hoax, because it was orchestrated by a former Jerry Springer producer with a record of making outrageous claims about celebrities: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/jul/07/donald-trump-sexual-assault-lawsuits-norm-lubow

The lawsuit attempted to link Trump to Epstein and Epstein-like crimes, so I suspect it was commissioned by HRC allies for the purpose of silencing Trump on the aforementioned Clinton-Epstein issue. It worked.

If you think Obama is some sort of saint you definitely don't belong here.

r/politics groupthink chamber is waiting for you, you can go back any time.

Your logical fallacy is: strawman!

By exaggerating, misrepresenting, or just completely fabricating someone's argument, it's much easier to kresenr your own position as being reasonable, but this kind of djshknesty serves to undermine rational debate.

Your logical fallacy is also: to quoque!

Literally translating as 'you too' this fallacy is commonly employed as an effective red herring because it takes the heat off the accused having to defend themselves and shifts the focus back into the accuser themselves.

I don't think being friends with Putin makes someone a bad person.

Normally I'd agree. Not a bad thing that one world leader should get along with another world leader. But Putin is an evil person. He's so bad that anyone around him becomes bad by association.

Source?

I don't have time to play Putin biographer. Do some reading on the guy.

So you're going to make a wild claim and not back it up even slightly? I see.

you brought up putin without knowing anything about him. the onus is on you to learn before you speak!

I know quite a bit about Putin.

doesnt seem like it considering you act incredulous and like its a wild claim to think hes sketch

I've stated many times that Putin is sketchy. But even the sketchiest motherfucker won't get charged for a crime with no evidence. I'd happily take some. The problem is there isn't any. That's why even the most ardent Trump haters are calling bullshit. That's why even fucking socialists opposed to all of the fascism Trump represents are calling bullshit.

Meanwhile sycophants like you are trying to continually drag partisanship and wanky "we gotta work within the system!" liberalism into it.

you should go to university

Can I study liberal arts like you?

if you save up enough money you can try

It's free in Germany. Have you been able to pay off that debt yet?

its called a scholarship, i guess missing out on those is another reason you missed out on uni

Why would I want a scholarship if the same education is free?

theres a different between scholarships and grants and free school. some people get paid to be students and do research. you know, if you arent some uneducated low class dumbfuck and actually have value to offer with your brain. what did you study by the way?

Did you really just try and say "low class" as an insult? Oh the hubris.

someone is triggered

If you say stupid shit you're gonna get called out on it, troll or not.

there's no shame in being low class, it's just that all the women are so much nastier

i see why you dodged that education question now that ive seen your resume lol. did you end up taking testosterone btw or did you end up overcoming your insecurities about your boy's frame?

I'm flattered that you took time out of your day to investigate me, Mr. Detective.

took two seconds and yielded a lot of hilarious posts, im glad i did it too

Yeah, I went through a phase three years ago at the cusp of turning 20. It amuses me too.

mm lots of embarrassing stuff quite clearly from a year ago, but ok. no uni

I never claimed I went to uni, but thanks for your concern and interest. Running a business seemed more economical when I can go to university anytime I choose with financial freedom.

& i never claimed you did i could just tell you didn't

I'm not sure what subjects you deem acceptable. I presume an engineering degree is not equal to an English degree.

President Two Mouths, as David Icke calls him.

His son is called Baron?

His youngest son is named Barron William Trump.

I love that you put "friends with putin" on the same level as molesting and racism

I'm not a trump supporter, I'm not even American but what is wrong if trump is friends with putin. It seems to me that having a president who will have good relations with russia is a good thing.

Also there is no evidence that putin directly ordered the podesta/clinton hacks but the obama administration is pushing that shit like its gospel and the whole world is lapping it up because obama wouldn't lie.

Then we have hillary taking millions from the saudi's which is fact and nobody cares. This is a foreign government trying to influence the american presidential race by backing there candidate (hillary) who would have owed the saudi's.

They have to double down on his rhetoric.

The next 4 years will be us not understanding what Trump meant what he says something crazy, and Kelly Anne Conway will be explaining the context that no rationale human could decipher.

Remember guys, don't listen to what Trump says, look at what's in his heart!

If Barack Obama said a single line, a single tweet, a single three-word sentence fragment uttered by Donald Trump over the past year, everyone would be afraid that he was losing his mind.

Flavor aid man... flavoraid

I mentioned on the Donald that "making America a Christian nation again" isn't the answer to combating Islamic terror and got banned and told that "god is great." I feel like I'm in some ridiculously over the Kirk Cameron movie.

To me that line was just a pander to the evangelicals, not a decree or campaign promise.

Holy shit. Did they "Allahu Akbar" you in English?

They really like to dish out bans for anything that goes against the narrative don't they?

It feels like a cult and it's fucking scary imo.

It's a cluster fuck, and I would hope more people would try to make changes but they're all too bush bashing trump and not the system that presented us with him or hillary.

and not the system that presented us with him or hillary.

This is who the country voted for in the Primaries. The system did not present these people to us, these are the people that 1/3rd of the country picked in the primaries.

Part of that equation is the exclusion of third parties from debates and MSM pretty much disparaging them.

The Gary Johnson's and Jill Steins of the world may have a chance to win if MSM isn't either not covering them or telling audiences that they don't have a chance.

Well, maybe not Jill Stein given she's been outed as being manipulated by Russia too... but I definitely agree that third party candidates are totally screwed over by the current system. Single transferable vote and open primaries for the win!

these are the people that 1/3rd of the country picked in the primaries

Not true: only 25.8% of registered voters bothered to vote in the primary elections. So many people complain about the two candidates we ended up with, but it's hard to take those complaints seriously when those same people just sat back and let it happen.

Don't blame the system because you voted for Trump.

I voted for Trump. I was going to vote for Gary johnson but at the end of the day voting 3rd party is meaningless so long as MSM and the people running the elections alienate them.

So I voted in the interest of keeping Crooked Hillary out of the white house and I'd do it again.

Do you think the people he's appointing have the same agenda you do? All those Goldman guys? Are you really OK with the way he's played along with Putin? Some say he was just played, but maybe it only looks that way. I think we're in for a 4 year shit show. 60% of the country hates him, including the media, and he hasn't even been inaugurated yet.

I think the appointees should be showing everybody that in our current system, it really doesn't matter who's president because the same people behind the scenes are waiting in line to hold such positions of power.

There's a video about John Podesta that says when Obama got in office a citicorp executive was just emailing him lists of people to appoint and they were appointed, as was the citicorp guy.

I still don't think it's as terrifying as letting Hillary be president.

I followed Obama's finance appointments pretty closely and I agree with you. He immediately dumped his populist advisers and sold out to the bankers. I'm also absolutely certain Trump will be worse. He's not even president yet and he's already trying to destabilize the EU. How is that good for the US? How is building up Putin good for the US? How is starting a trade war with China good for the US? I could go on like that for a while, but it's too early in the day to get all stirred up. Maybe I'm getting it all wrong and he'll be a great President, but I have a very bad feeling about where we're headed.

Nice strawman, think I could borrow it?

have at it, bud.

Just create me another story and I'll use that one as evidence to support my wild claims!

haha, truth hurts doesnt it.

What you speak is not the truth, you simply wish to generalize to avoid being called out.

Sorry kiddo not going to happen.

haha what? how is that generalizing, that is literally what people replied about in my previous comments a month back.

like literally bro

you know it fam

They must either be losing loyalty or feel mission accomplished, or better yet, they now feel alone and afraid, due to trumps new stances on basically everything?

Not to be too appropriately conspiratorial, but Russia's modus operandi is all about the (spread of disinformation.)[http://www.npr.org/2017/01/06/508032496/how-russias-disinformation-campaign-could-extend-its-tentacles] And reports say they got a little troll army.

How many subs of t_d (who have clearly glommed onto this sub, which centers around uncertain hypotheses) could be puppet Russian accounts? We need "Comrade" flair.

Most every major country has an internet army.

Thanks for the info comrade!

No shit, I'm saying Russia's is likely hard at work in this sub, particularly.

It's proven that Russia pays workers to spread pro-Putin propoganda online, they're pretty damn good at their job because mentioning anything that puts Russia in a bad light has been taboo on this sub for the last year or two.

They mostly focus on inner sites and forums, I'm not sure that this sub is one of their places.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily saying there's darn Ruskie spooks infiltrating every subreddit. What I'm saying is that they generate pro-Putin propaganda that can then spread to sites like Reddit through social circles, intersecting with the people who are desperate to believe anything that's anti-American establishment. If they do that enough times and with enough force, that propaganda can become the norm.

Since the beginning of the election, there has been a huge influx of these posters on every forum Ive seen on the internet. From bodybuilding forums, to every board of most chans, to facebook, reddit subs galore, etc. Everywhere seems tainted and they appear out of nowhere, on topic or off topic doesnt matter. Im reading them and can only hear this in the background.

"The irony of /r/conspiracy's support of a PEOTUS who is installing globalist billionaires into the highest levels of our government is breathtaking."

100% agree.

You know it's possible to hate Trump but think the Russian conspiracy is obviously bullshit.

"X is obviously bullshit" shouldn't even be in the lexicon of a skeptic.

Fucking this. Zero proof!

What is obvious about it? You find it more plausible that a Secretary of State is a child fucking cannibal than a billionaire owes money to Russians?

What if I hate trump and think both pizza gate and piss gate are obviously bullshit?

That would make you a little logical for this sub reddit

Then you're clearly not welcome here. (And neither am I)

Then you are a ctr shill of course.

GET OUT!!

Why does getting pissed on mean anything to yall? Or am I out of the loop and there is more?

Read for yourself, the pissing doesn't even make up one page.

"Pissgate (just never mind that it didn't actually HAPPEN ) = treason, selling intelligence to enemy nations = hurr hurrrrr dats fine" - Hitlery-supporter brigade from r/politics spamming this thread

And your account is only 2 days old.

Not to mention spamming the same narrative up and down this thread accusing anyone who doesn't agree with him a shill.

On a completely unrelated note: Isn't it weird how homophobes always turn out to be gay themselves?

It's really weird yea.

This is exactly what's up. The same people that claim they're all about keeping the 'government' out of our lives are the exact people that love to dig into everyone else's business. Turn it around on them and they get all self-righteous.

It's the tip of the iceberg in the whole Russian mess.

The allegation is that the FSB (KGB) has a video of DT entertaining two Russian Prostitutes in a Moscow hotel, and they could use it to blackmail DT. From reading the dossier, it seems that DT was watching some hot girl/girl action, that happened to invoke some good natured lady pee play. While the details are humorously lurid, it's the blackmail factor that is interesting.

Just because no one with a brain is buying into the narrative that you r/politics Hitlery-supporters are pushing with your downvote brigades does not mean this sub has been co-opted by T_D.

Funny how you Hitlery-drones rush in here to brigade and downvote and parrot the same exact talking points about being "controlled by T_D", despite there being less evidence of that than pissgate, for which there is literally zero.

Get your 2 day old shill account the fuck out of here.

"Lemme tell you why you're wrong about T_D taking over /r/conspiracy by throwing out a bunch of idiotic buzzwords so heavily associated with T_D that by even including them in this sentence calls into question my very ability to build a plausible argument, all from a 2 day old account clearly created to hide the fact that if I was using my main account, it would show even further proof of my involvement in T_D."

You, just now.

You're absolutely correct, there is a post om r/OutOfTheLoop basically saying r/conspiracy is alt right which in its self bullshit.I really want to know why reddit is going after r/conspiracy.It almost as if both r/EnoughTrumpSpam and r/The_Donald are trying to destroy reddit with bullshit politics.

Who are the globalist billionaires that Trump is installing?

Betsy DeVos, Linda McMahon, Vincent Viola, all billionaires. Rex Tillerson is worth hundreds of millions, has close ties with Russia and will be in charge of US foreign policy.

Im more interested in proof of being globalists.

For fuck sakes. Is this what r/conspiracy has become? I can't fucking even

What? Asking for proof?

You need proof that the CEO of a gigantic multinational oil conglomerate is a globalist? What?

Lol. Please tell me you're not serious.

What happened to this sub

I like to come here to see the zany stuff you guys post sometimes but i gotta say i really feel for the true /r/conspiracy users here. I've watched this takeover happen over the last year or so and it's gotta suck to see a community you love disappear.

This so much

The only conspiracies upvoted here are those which support the "Clinton-led pedophilic shadow government" narrative.

424 points.

Why don't these people upvote the posts which don't support that narrative?

You do realize that a lot of us were in r/conspiracy way before we backed Trump right? So it's pretty dumb to dismiss a whole bunch of people only because they support Trump. OPs post raises a legitimate question. No mainstream news agencies touched pizzagate but they jumped all over pissgate with nothing but hearsay. There are known pedophilia rings throughout Hollywood and Catholic churches its well documented. So for a lot of people in this sub to be so adamantly against the theory that there is sex trafficking of children going on with Podesta and company really makes me think that it's this sub that's compromised and the constant discredit campaign on anyone who subscribes to T_D needs to stop.

So it's pretty dumb to dismiss a whole bunch of people only because they support Trump.

I'm not dismissing you because you support Trump. I'm dismissing you because you believe stupid things.

What do you consider stupid that I believe exactly? Are you saying there's not pedophilia happening in the Catholic Church and Hollywood?

No, I'm saying the existence of pedophilia doesn't make pizzagate make any more sense.

There's a lot of odd behavior and evidence of something sinister happening around John Podesta, Alfentais, and other people involved in pizzagate. The fact that they had close ties to Epstein who's been convicted of pedophilia doesn't play well to your defense. I don't see why so many people are ready to deny this and say nothing is going on instead of looking more into it. If there's nothing going on then you have nothing to worry about let the people investigating it continue to do so.

Many wealthy people had ties to Epstein, including Trump. The nature of Epstein's crimes is well documented, and has nothing to do with a child sex ring in a pizzeria. He solicited underage teenage prostitutes.

I'm not basing it off of the Epstein connection alone. There's numerous things I've seen that make pizzagate extremely believable. For starters besta Pizza symbol was the actual boy love symbol. The strange behavior and posts on Comet Ping Pong Pizza Instagram account showing a young girl with her hands taped down to a table. Then you have the guy from the Department of Justice whose in charge of Prosecuting these child pedophiles in the area where these pizza shops are making comments all these Instagram pictures that are kind of vague and somewhat sexual. I can go on and on but the best thing you could do is actually research it for yourself if you want me to give you some information I can do so after I get off of work. But as I said this stuff is just the tip of the iceberg it's a bunch of coincidences after coincidences after coincidences until you kind of realize it's not really a coincidence at all.

I've read into it plenty. It's nonsense.

Couldn't be further from the truth. I wish it wasn't true because no one in their right mind wants it to be legitimate but it is. The only nonsense are people like you who try to downplay what's going on. Makes me sick.

There's nothing going on outside of your confused head.

Solid counter argument there Carl swagan. Idiot.

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

This is the answer, now someone please make a new sub so we can discuss conspiracies again without the political agenda bullshit.

Yup, lets pick a secretary of state who is a "friend of Russia" and ex-ExxonMobil. Then Trump says, lets take sanctions off Russia, what a great idea. So the oil flows and corporate profits rain in for ExxonMobil. Then Trump says: let's bomb the oil pipelines controlled by ISIS and get ExxonMobil to rebuild them. it doesn't get any god damn clearer than that.

You know how everyone used that word "conspiratard" to describe us when we accused the NSA and CIA and FBI of spying on every single thing we do, and then we turned out to be right? They used that word because there were also people who honestly believed that Obama was a secret Kenyan Muslim who managed to fool every single intelligence agency in the world and became President. Those people are retarded. And they're the same ones that vote for Trump. And yeah, they're the ones who think a bunch of emails exposed a secret pedophile ring being operated out of a pizza place. As though these rich people couldn't afford some remote and inaccessible compound in Wyoming to house a bunch of sex slaves, no they had to use a fucking pizza shop basement that doesn't exist according to every single available record.

Hey look at this account as well.

Claims this sub is co opted, and now doesn't use it, yet never used it in past, all posts are pro clinton on politics, and is a member of /ETS

not a shill here....

Lol, okay bud.

I spend 90% of my time in /r/hockey, but sure I'm a shill because I don't like Trump.

You people are delusional.

Okay, who else read POETUS in their heads like "peetus"? I can't be the only one.

This sub has been my favorite for a while. But I more recently spend a lot of time on TD. To me, Trump, even though rich, is about changing this corrupt system. So, tbh, I thought the two subs went well together.

Be critical of Trump, sure, no problem to me. But the way the media and intelligence agencies (at least CIA), are going after him, he must be doing something right.

Not sure why the two subs have to be mutually exclusive.

Is there an alternative to this sub that hasn't been overrun with Trumpians? With Trump in office, there are so many of his actions that should be discussed here, and they aren't.

Preach.

Check out this post I made collecting the latest evidence

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5nsj1n/ap_source_trump_aide_in_frequent_contact_with/

Clinton foundation + Uranium One = -the Oregon landgrab/rancher in federal/illegal building situation- for a uranium deal with Russia. Let that sink in.

Deflection

10 yard penalty.

MIRROR, lol. It's called connecting the dots.

I'm sorry, I don't get it?

If the real enemy for the DNC is the Russians, why did they make a deal to sell them the american Uranium found in oregon ? (I've followed what happened in realtime. More than a year ago, the whole patriots-occupying-a-federal-building-in-Burns-County.. The resulting death of Lavoy Finnicum? The FBI doing a psyop in the village, the kidnapping of kids for leverage, the strange undoings of the Judge and non-constitutional sheriff, tied through masonic serment....it went deep! ) who decided not to protect the population and handed it to the corrupt FBI agents... All sounds like a movie plot, but it happened.. Just because of gold and uranium under many acres of land owned privately by citizens. #LandGrabs #FederalizationOfEverything

Its somewhat more complicated than that. Well, not really. The US uranium industry is basically dead. The uranium deal was simply just a way to sell a company that had no willing purchaser to an interest that was willing to get back in the extraction process.

There is a more than sufficient supply of HEU in ORNL for any weapons or naval fuel for the forseable future.

I have know idea how that has anything to do with the Bundy nutters.

No... The Bundy's were victims too ! It happened to many rancher families.. Imagine if, illegally and unconstitutionally, a government wanted to have your privately own land for whatever reasons (and your life's earnings depended on it), wouldn't you fight for it to get it stolen? What would you do if it happened again to another rancher family had the same trouble.. Wouldn't you want to help them up to fight OFF the BLM (Bureau of Land Management-Federal), acting as if they OWNED your property and decided what to do with it? Add to that the fact that the MSM is pretty much owned by the (shadow) government and uses it to tweak the public opinion and sell all this off as a story with crazy people.. It's outraging.

You need to go back on your meds, sweetie.

lol..That's sweet of you. But I'm ok now, having been relieved of the MSM lies for a few years. Conscience and knowledge can be hard to swallow, but if you take time, it's worth it.

Enjoy your new Ruskie fan-fic.

Lol

It was BLM owned land, the Bundy's were just Bogarting public lands for private profits.

They aren't patriots or anything like it.

Article I, section 8, clause 17 of the U.S. Constitution gives the feds control of 10 square miles of Washington DC. It further states that land within the boundaries of a state may only be acquired if they first have the consent of the state legislature. The federal government is limited in it’s acquisition of land to four purposes, military forts, arsenals, dock-yards, and other needful buildings. Nowhere in the constitution does it grant the federal government the power to “own” millions of acres. The so called "public lands" that they currently control must be returned to the states.

You can invest in it right now. Why sit on the sidelines and talk? Make your play and get rich!

Lol Don't try it yourself, you're going to end up suicided by an alphabet agency if you push too hard to get inland just to see what's left.

I hope the Russians pay you well for the horse shit deflections.

Lol Putin is not perfect, but he knows what's up with the globalist agenda, when you listen to him.. What do you know about such a thing?

Globalism is dead. Catch up man. Nationalism is taking off everywhere, from the UK to France to the United States.

I know it's taking a beating, and it's a great thing!! Thanks for the suggestion, I'll note that down. :)

Not more than ctr pays you

They work free, which is why they're called useful idiots.

I wish you had more upvotes. It blows my mind that the people who love pouring over pizzagate aren't jumping at this rabbit hole of possibilities.

Cuz it's not really a rabbit hole. It doesn't connect globally. It doesn't involve enslavement of the masses, human trafficking, child trafficking, pedophilia, organ harvesting, tissue research, the fed, most politicians, some/most gov't agencies, or powerful private mercenary armies; all while using a hidden ancient religion that worships Saturn as a fundamental part of it.

But anonymous sources said so!

What could possibly wrong if people just believed whatever anonymous sources told the press? You should trust your government - especially when they are supposedly speaking the press anonymously!

The source isn't anonymous, he's the guy that leaked the FIFA scandal. He's proven he's credible, unlike a bunch of morons from /pol/ who threw a bunch of straight up bullshit together and created a theory that I shit you not is crazier than the one from A Beautiful Mind, strings and paper clippings and everything.

They aren't anonymous sources, and compared to the 'evidence' around Pizzagate, they are a lot more convincing.

I keep asking for sources and then people respond with links citing anonymous sources.

Not everyone, last night someone actually had a link to some real journalism with info on Flynn's phone calls.

However, the people posting links to reports from anonymous sources (while claiming they do not rely on anonymous sources) are really drowning out the content with proper sources and research.

Funny how you say that 8 hours after someone replying directly to you named the source...

You should trust your government

I definitely do. Which is why when all 17 intelligence agencies concur Russia ran a massive public manipulation campaign with the express purpose of getting Trump elected, I believe them.

Now THAT'S what I call a Conspiracy!!

Tldr: It doesnt involve liberals or the democratic party.

Sure thing bud.

*demoncratic

666 and stuff!!!! Evil liberals!!!!

*Pedos

Like Mark Foley!

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Foley_scandal

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Lmao you sound so insecure.

We can confirm that John Podesta is, if nothing more, an actual person.

The same can't be said for the anonymous source cited by the above link.

The above link is a compilation of sources ranging from Wikipedia, to the NYT, to Politico. There are 20 of them. The link wasn't to the story posted at the top, it was to his comment.

This is now two sources - the AP

The comment on the submitted link is immediately talking about said link with the anonymous source.

User shortened "the anonymous source the AP used" to just "the AP."

The AP did not make the claim. They reported the claim of the anonymous source.

Something tells me you are not being correctly linked to the comment I'm talking about. It's a numbered list of 20 different sources about different things. It's the top comment in this thread. Can you show me a link to what you are seeing?

Ah, I see it now. The comment with 36 points beginning "More commentary from the pol thread" is top, and the comment with the list is a reply to that and further down.

That was the suggested title by reddit actually.

This is now two sources - the AP

is from the comment.

AP Source: Trump aide in frequent contact with Russia envoy

is the title.

"The AP" is not the same as "AP Source." It matters a lot that they make this distinction very clear on their site. People on reddit making it or not, not so much.

Oh, well if you read just the next few words there you'll see the two sources are the AP and David Ignatius.

The AP is not the original source of the claim. The "AP source" which they were communicating with is.

Let's say you read a quote from Obama in the New York Times. If you were talking about the quote, you wouldn't say the source of it was the New York Times, or that the New York Times said "whatever he said." You'd say Obama said "whatever he said."

ranging from Wikipedia, to the NYT, to Politico.

So they are all the same source? Great detective work there.

Maybe not yet, but John McCain, Carl Bernstein, the BBC, etc. seem to think this is an area worth investigating. That seems sufficient to me to suggest these claims are worth some of our attention.

But politicians use the same codeword for child porn that 4chan do!

Probably because this sub has an uncomfortable way of making it seem like the Left are ALL satanic (a "problem" that literally made me not give a shit about this; the last time anyone thought satanist were anything more than slightly edgy hedonists were uptight religious types from the 80s) pedophiles all in on this crime ring using 4chan word filters as their secret code words, while no corruption that the Right does is worth worrying about, even though there was a time when this sub reminded people that BOTH SIDES are equally corrupt.

Meanwhile, elsewhere in this thread, the brainwashed-fucktard-Hitlery-supporter crowd are screaming about how Pissgate is a REAL conspiracy despite being 100% debunked by dozens of outlets and not having even a single piece of credible evidence to begin with.

That, to them, is proof that it has tons of evidence.

Only Hitlery-tards could possibly be so fucking brainwashed that they actually consider claims to be "solid evidence".

Do you have a link to the debunking? It can't be full debunked without tax returns.

What information on the tax returns would you think would debunk this?

It would give more detail into his business dealings (or lack of) with Russian businesses.

WASHINGTON (AP) — A senior U.S. official says the Obama administration is aware of frequent contacts between President-elect Donald Trump's top national security adviser and Russia's ambassador to the United States.

Anonymous source. Garbage.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Watergate_scandal

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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_War

Sound comparison! No really, totally intellectually honest.

You seem to be suggesting that an anonymous source means the story should not be given any critical thought or attention. I'm saying that claim by itself is absurd. How about you give it more than like 4 days since the story dropped to allow people to try and gather some evidence.

That's what the Watergate investigation did. That's not what we did for Iraq. The difference between the two being time and effort by objective investigators. Maybe let that happen.

You seem to be suggesting that an anonymous source means the story should not be given any critical thought or attention. I'm saying that claim by itself is absurd.

You seem to guess up what someone else's claims are and then argue against them.

And you bring up intellectual honesty?

How about you give it more than like 4 days since the story dropped to allow people to try and gather some evidence.

If you were actually interested in what my opinions were, you might be surprised to learn that we agree on some points like this one.

However, you decided to argue against a strawman you created instead. Have fun with that.

Yes, how could such a message ever be taken from your post...

Anonymous source. Garbage.

Oh right there it is.

Everyone's so quick to debunk when the investigation is still ongoing... A by product of the 'gotta have it now' society we now live in?

They have reported the dates of the calls and Flynn has given excuses as to why he called. It's out there as a FACT that is admitted by this member of the Trump team. Talk about blind partisan. #fakenews bullshit has to stop. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-flynn-in-frequent-contact-with-russias-ambassador-to-u-s/

Good on cbs for doing some work and getting some proper names and dates.

Not sure if that is supposed to make the AP page look better to me. If anything it looks worse by comparison.

So, I haven't been keeping up on this particular thread of news, what exactly is off about talking with an ambassador and making diplomatic overtures after the incoming pres already said that's what he wanted to do? We got a peace talk invite out of this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/first-sign-of-enhanced-us-russia-relations-under-trump-an-invite-to-syria-talks/2017/01/13/81d443d6-d9b9-11e6-9f9f-5cdb4b7f8dd7_story.html?utm_term=.660ef1dc567c

It's also illegal: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act

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considering the negotiations are going to take place after the inaug, that seems marginal at best legally, and fine morally.

i dont get it. Obama expelled them like a week or two ago? I would assume the Trump team would be in contact with other foreign leaders / officials by now, no?

It's simple, the mods and most vocal users of /r/conspiracy are doing everything to push their agenda even if it means denouncing evidence and extolling blatant falsehood. They are afraid of how mainstream the anti-Trump sentiments have become since the election. It's hard to defend democracy while celebrating the election of a candidate that lost the popular vote. It's hard to contradict a growing mountain of certainty that Trump has colluded with Russian agents. It's hard to prove that Hilary is tied to a ring of pedophiles and that one of their own came very close to commiting murder over those claims. It's easy to block out dissent. It's easy to cover your ears and stamp your feet and say "I know I'm right."

Perhaps its time to visit /r/trueconspiracy One that isn't ran by Trussian Shills.

r/conspiracy is done. The bias is loud and clear.

is there an alternative to /r/politics that isn't run by CTR?

R/politicaldiscussion and r/realpolitics

Unfortunately, no. As long as I've been on Reddit, there hasn't been an American politics releated subreddit that wasn't eventually taken over by hard-leaning conservatives or liberals. Considering how hard it is to just find unbiased news, it's almost impossible to keep control over a subreddit that doesn't eventually get flooded with a majority leaning one way or the other.

Mainstream sentiment against trump isn't worth shit, it's an industry of ass clowns. If any single band of liberals try to stop Trump's inauguration every gun owner in us, the armed forces, and the fucking silent majority that is locked and loaded will fucking gut you little shits.

Wow check this tough guy out. This didn't even have anything to do with the comment you responded to you must just be copy and pasting a juicy youtube comment you made.

Flagrant Rule 4 violation.

One removed post about trump and r/all loses its mind this is hilarious.

We already know that the Russians have a team of "Internet trolls" attempting to sway opinion. This is probably a few hundred people and countless bots posting this nonsense on 4Chan /pol/, the_cuckold and /r/conspiracy. They want to shut down the Trump Russia link. Except their shitty imgur posts don't add up. This didn't originate on 4Chan, that's garbage.

I don't think anyone is being paid to post on 4chan, they're just aggregating tabloid sources to justify spinning ridiculous theories about whatever is on the news. Paying people to run bots on Twitter seems a lot more plausible, because there are definitely a lot of bots with a political bias on Twitter.

http://www.usnews.com/news/at-the-edge/articles/2016-11-28/twitter-bots-from-the-us-state-of-georgia-posted-thousands-of-messages-before-the-election

why would Russia want to shut down the Trump-Russia link? Russia wants the US to melt down and what better way to do that than to have the Trump-Russia link to be front and center during the Congressional hearings on nominees and in the runup to the inauguration? Russia wants people on the left calling for a disruption of the peaceful transfer of power, that would be Putin's wet dream. Russia could even be cultivating the intelligence with an eye towards its disclosure, that's just as likely as your scenario.

Because their end-game is removal of oil sanctions imposed after they were involved in Ukraine. Those sanctions are costing them billions. Guess who else wants those sanctions lifted? Exxon-mobil, Rex Tillerson's old company. They have holdings in Russia. Who better to ensure Trump gets it done than the "friend of Russia" Tillerson.

As far as I know, these teams mostly work on russian resources. Forums, news articles comments, social media comments, stuff like that.

And they are easy to spot even in russian, their native language. I doubt that they are better in English.

Siberian Candidate

I prefer " The Micturating Candidate."

The difference is Pizzagate is a open source citizen investigation sourced from actual emails from the DNC and John Podesta while Pissgate is a "report" that Wikileaks has called fraudulent that only gained traction through a mass bot upvoting campaign.

Welcome to why some of us don't believe in the idea that Wikileaks is some infallible source of truth.

The "report" you so obviously use quotes to dismiss, is intelligence gathered by Christopher Steele, an ex-MI6 investigator. More on this from BBC's Paul Wood:

And the former MI6 agent is not the only source for the claim about Russian kompromat on the president-elect. Back in August, a retired spy told me he had been informed of its existence by "the head of an East European intelligence agency".

Wikileaks are clearly the experts is regards to authenticating intelligence reports. So, their opinion holds alot of weight.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/818992803829137408

Secondly, every news organization other than Buzzfeed and CNN tried their damndest to collaborate this "report" but failed to.

That is the dumbest thing I've seen Wikileaks claim recently. They claim it isn't an intelligence report. Guess what, it isn't! It was intelligence gathered as opposition research by former MI6.

Your opinion is Wikileaks is infallible, I just don't buy it. They are obviously pushing an agenda, unless you believe Wikileaks somehow doesn't know the details of where this info came from.

Wiki leaks is no longer non partisan, they are biased and shouldn't be seen as transparent. They've shown themselves to have an agenda and the conspiracy community should view them with skepticism

Secondly, every news organization other than Buzzfeed and CNN tried their damndest to collaborate this "report" but failed to.

Now apply this same logic to pizzagate.

The difference is the media never tried to substantiate Pizzagate. They did, however, try to collaborate Pissgate since it goes along with their narrative.

Trying to corroborate stories is the media's job not evidence of pushing a narrative.

Regardless, again, apply that same logic here. The mods won't substantiate "Pissgate", in fact, they actively remove threads relating to it. Meanwhile, Pizzagate threads are stickied. Do you not see the implications here?

The corporate media went out of their way to obfuscate pizzagate. Only mentioning the name to mock the investigation and never mentioning any of the details.

Like that basement that was originally claimed to be trafficking children in the DC pizzeria

Noone is claiming that Comet is holding children in their basement. Rather that Comet is where children are showcased for their sex trafficking ring.

The mods won't substantiate "Pissgate", in fact, they actively remove threads relating to it. Meanwhile, Pizzagate threads are stickied.

That's because the community actually cares about Pizzagate while Pissgate is just an artificial non story that only gained traction by being massively upvoted by bots.

The corporate media went out of their way to obfuscate pizzagate. Only mentioning the name to mock the investigation and never mentioning any of the details.

And then

Pissgate is just an artificial non story that only gained traction by being massively upvoted by bots.

Are you related to Kelly-Anne Conway, by any chance?

You just cited an unnamed source. My anonymous sources from the White House tell me that yes, that is exactly what it is.

I literally said it was from BBC's Paul Wood. If you need a direct link I'll be happy to provide it. How on earth is that an unnamed source?

Back in August, a retired spy told me

Are you stupid?

So Paul Wood and the BBC are uncredible sources now? Is that the point you're dancing around?

Are either of them primary? No? Did Paul Wood cite himself? No? So I didn't dance around shit, I'm sorry I understand spies are fucking paid to lie, if he in fact talked to one. If you want to keep playing he said-she said go back to middle school bitch. Also, if you listen to unnamed sources you are a fucking idiot. That is how you get people to think Russia hacked the electric grid in fucking Vermont. Go learn about Gary Webb and Jimmy Saville faggot.

You are so bad at shilling you are probably just a retard who can't tell the difference.

GTFO

So you are actually complaining that a news organization refused to mention the name of a spy that gave them information. Wow.

How about YOU provide a source for your opinions instead of nothing more than anger and verbal diarrhea. Do you have one?

Way to elevate the level of discourse btw, it doesn't at all make me think that your opinions are fragile and held together by tawdry bits of string.

Ex-spy. And given there are no other corroborating stories, yea, basic journalism would call that bullshit.

I don't have an opinion, I'm not pushing agenda, but you are.

I play to my audience. You spew a lot of shit, you get a lot of shit.

Stop being a faggot if you want respect.

Christopher Steele is an ex-spy too, and when his name came out he went to ground. Even ex-spies don't like having their names dropped.

I don't have an opinion, I'm not pushing agenda

Oh you have no opinion, then why are you speaking at all?

Stop being a faggot if you want respect.

The irony is palpable. I don't need children to lecture me on respect.

You cite the original bogus report to justify the second source of a bogus report? Bitch please. He could have had noting to do with it and be dead for all you know. Why am I speaking? Cause our sub used to be about a search for the truth till you little Hillary/Trump loving faggots came in. You think your diction makes you a man? Lol and you call yourself a hockey fan... pathetic.

You also never addressed my criticism of the BBC and the other outlets.

Go back to /r/politics with the other shills.

our sub

*redditor for 2 days

Crying shill at people who disagree. No sources to back up claims, just wild accussations and high-energy.

You people are so transparent, get the fuck out of this sub.

Please don't call other users faggots.

Please don't call other users faggots.

Why are you suppressing one conspiracy theory to push another one?

Because that's happening only in the mind of Hitlery-supporters who actually believe the already-debunked, had-no-evidence-to-begin with retard-narrative.

Just because BuzzFeed published some claims without evidence doesn't mean it's a "conspiracy".

In fact, the main conspiracy around pissgate is the coordinated attack on this sub by thousands of Hitlery-goons so brainwashed that they think claims without evidence = fact.

Do you know what evidence is? Because if you doubt there is evidence, I'll be glad to provide it for you.

You/this sub are currently getting overrun by trumplets and their bots and apparently not a single admin gives a fuck about it. Try discussing with other thoughtful people here as long as possible and then move to a smaller sub because this shit won't die down until the_ comrade is impeached or spez and his ballless fellows step in.

I don't think I have ever encountered a word in more desperate need of a hyphen. Congratulations, you just made a comment that I may remember for 50 years.

The mods are trumplets too... which is why they first tagged the original "Trump allegations" thread as "unverified allegations", then changed that tag to "hoax" and finally deleted the thread.

Just look at the "top" section for week. For today's listing of top posts for the week there is only one negative post about Trump. And it's only about his five Goldman Sachs appointments.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5ncovs/no_trump_is_not_a_russian_puppet_no_russia_didnt/?sort=top

Seriously? I would think this is just a troll post but with how exceedingly few Trump related conspiracies upvoted and how many threads get deleted I have plenty of reason to believe /r/conspiracy is refusing to pursue anything negative towards Trump.

What's going to happen when Obama leaves office? Will we keep talking about Clinton and Obama only? Nothing will ever go bad with Trump's admin?

WOW top comment defending Pissgate and dismissing Pizzagate? It looks like the shills are lurking in the comments.

Your explanation is begging the question, answering a legitimate question with a bullshit response about "what's your agenda pushing one conspiracy over another??" That's because the Pissgate is reported by the WHOLE MEDIA and is unsubstantiated and its combed over and it's worst case scenario is pushed to the brink. While Pizzagate which is far more dastardly of a conspiracy is pushed under the rug despite rampant child abuse trafficking being evident in governments and institutes of power like the churches all over the world.

Beware all the concern trolls that try to confuse you from looking into the real conspiracy. A safe way to think about it is: if the legacy media is researching and reporting it, it's fully vetted by TPTB and approved for discussion. If it's being STIFLED by the legacy media for ANY reason, then it's unapproved, and you should look closer.

Kindly quote the part of my comment that dismisses Pizzagate. Also you seemed to have missed this part:

They are not mutually exclusive. You can believe in both, one or the other, or neither. The point is this is supposed to be a place to have all those discussions, not force your own narrative.

Sure. You seem to imply Pizzagate is not suppressed when it's own subreddit was taken down. That is dismissing it. OP has a legitimate argument, that the Pissgate narrative was even dismissed as BOGUS BY WIKILEAKS, who has 100% track record. They extended themselves quite a bit to put that wording on it.

You aren't entirely writing it off, no, but by trying to give equal credence to this thought that Russia is some huge enemy that they have viable serious blackmail on trump, despite serious journalists like Glenn Greenwald and JA dismissing the "proof" as most likely propaganda... It's disingenuous to put these two things in the same realm.

I get that a lot of people want to jump on anything bad against trump and believe me I am ready to join the fight; but don't bite on shit that's obviously bullshit. Legacy media cried wolf every single day of the election against trump and it cried too many false alarms and asserted itself in weakness.

So don't delegitimize a serious question as to why people are so much on board with Pissgate despite seriously flimsy evidence, and Pizzagate is written off every turn left and right and that's not discussed despite the real creep James alefantis stuff going totally unanswered.

I fully agree with Pizzagate being discussed here, the claims that it's being suppressed by CTR here are laughable as there are daily posts about it on the front page. By all means, keep it up. All conspiracies deserve to be dug into. I just don't see how you can claim it's being written off when there are daily posts here about it on the front page.

And on the same note, no source is infallible. Not even Wikileaks. The more I hear "100% VERIFIED" shouted as proof of anything they claim, the more I am reminded of how religion has propagated itself through the centuries claiming to have an infallible source. Be careful how high of a pedestal you put them on.

Latest example? Wikileaks calling these memos "fake news" by saying it doesn't look like an intelligence report. Guess what? It isn't one. It's raw information gathered by former MI6 as opposition research. He simply decided based on the information that the IC deserved to take a look at it.

Wikileaks obviously has an agenda and they are pushing it. Not surprising they would be out playing damage control with these memos, the memos do not make them look very good.

Okay pal, it's obvious where you are taking this. Comparing holding up a new source for having never released a false document, to compare to people worshiping a religion? The fuck out of here you doubtful swill. Take your CIA propaganda elsewhere. "Wikileaks has an agenda" obviously a shill if you're hanging out in conspiracy getting hundreds of up votes with that message.

Julian assange is the one who reveals conspiracy you fool.

Shill? For who exactly? Feel free to go through my history, though I don't envy how long that would take.

All I'm doing is questioning your infallible God-Emperor Assange. You know, like a skeptic would.

You seem to keep referring to him as a god emperor, over inflating people's opinions of him. In a world of so much abuse and propaganda and obvious corruption and collusion between government and media, some people decide to go against this establishment and actually report the things that cost them their lives and freedom. I respect that, and have a higher regard for someone like that than some ex spy.

Even the report you keep referring to about Pissgate has disclaimers that state they don't stand behind the evidence. And don't you question at all when the main legacy media pushes a story? It's usually for the wrong reason, and the OPPOSITE of a conspiracy.

Wikileaks does not have a 100% track record. They've doxxed the wrong people and shown themselves to basically be petulant and partisan. I don't believe that the things they leak are faked, but I do believe that they selectively leak and act in a manner designed to push a certain point of view. This should be clear to anybody who believes himself to be a skeptic

Go ahead and believe whatever you want, doesn't make it true.

The evidence is out there and readily available. They got pissy with somebody on Twitter and doxxed the wrong guy in an attempt to punish him just last week. Assange also dodged all meaningful questions about his credibility during his AMA.

Quickly debunked ; Michael Kohen (spelling?) Was NEVER in Prauge

Raw intel will always have errors, it was a different Michael Cohen. Now that you've debunked that, and you can ignore the pissing because I don't care about it, how about taking a stab at the rest? You still have ~34 pages to go.

Russia claims its false.

Yes because they have incentive to tell us the truth in whether or not they were actively meddling in an American election. I'm a skeptic about this whole thing but of COURSE the Russians are going to deny it. They would deny it either way do their denial is worthless in deciding it's truth.

That's actually more likely proof that it is true.

If Russia didn't have leverage on Donald, they would want people to believe they do. If they do, they would want people to believe they didn't.

Intelligence is most useful if it is asymmetrical.

If you show everyone that you have blackmail material, you are no longer capable of blackmail.

Russia also claims that “The Kremlin does not engage in collecting kompromat (compromising material)”.

Which is about as believable as my 20 inch dick.

Russia also said their soldiers were on "vacation" in ukraine.

Are you trolling dude? "Russia claims its false." ? What kind of response is that.

Meh I have seen guys simultaneously believe 911 was an inside job by the US government while also believing it was aliens.

Good fuckin point. Sheesh

Originally I was shocked how simple statements in here has made me look at things differently. And sometimes from a different view.

Now im starting to get use to my opinion being swayd here

Dude the government is aliens...

Oh look gold, congratulations.

One is the product of intelligence community working to maintain the status quo: Russian alienation, Saudi alignment, energy market stasis. Their motives go all the way back to the rise of opec and Saudi wealth, the energy crisis, the floating of the dollar and end of the gold standard, and the resulting shift in financial power and industrial distribution, and then the demise of the middle class.

The other is citizen journalists discovering a potential cabal and asking the fbi to investigate.

The memos released are not the product of the IC, they didn't even come directly from MI6. They are the product of an Ex-MI6 investigator who was hired (by both Dems and the GOP) to do opposition research on Trump.

Wait what Siberia candidate stuff !!!

The Memos now referred to as "Pissgate". The golden shower portion is a tiny fraction of what these memos allege, and IMO not even worth talking about. Most of it is Trump's collaboration with Russia over the years and their influence in getting him elected.

For context, this is not a report from the intelligence community. This is opposition research against Trump done by a former MI-6 operative-turned-investigator, who was hired by both Dems and the GOP for his connections in Russia. The only real corroboration so far is by Paul Wood of the BBC, who says a former spy in an Eastern European intelligence agency has also told him about Russia having compromising information on Trump. The MI-6 spy in question has been outed since this release, and has gone to ground.

Here is a collection of links posted recently exploring Trump's connections with Russia. More cannon fodder if you are interested.

Much like Pizzagate, there is a wealth of this information to go through, and evidence is mostly unverifiable. The sources are more credible than people shouting fake would have you believe (and this now includes Wikileaks, sadly). The MI-6 spy who did this report (Christopher Steele) is the same guy who exposed the FIFA corruption.

Interesting but just because sombody did something correct ones doesn't mean they did it again. Meaning that because he exposed FiFA does not mean that this information is True... There is so much shit flying around that it's hard at this point determine what is true or false. That's what makes it such a juicy Conspiracy !!! It's like if we where looking inside some crazy family house but the windows are fogged up. We can make out a few things but we don't have the full picture. That's why we need whistleblowers to clean that foggy windows and get to see what the flying Fuck is going on in there.

Actually I think this is the start of something bigger... It seems they are 2 different powers to be and they both have shit on it each other, it looks like they are both releasing stuff about each other as warnings of a "Nucl3ar 0ption" but it seems that mutual destruction is not good business.... What would be interesting is if a third party would instigate the powers to be and they would both reveal everything they have on each other.

I don't think OP means this sub, but a far larger community, and he's right. /r/Pizzagate was shut down, shortly after fakenews was the buzzword.

le gold post

Many Russian trolls have infiltrated this sub. There is plenty of interesting material that points to a real conspiracy involving Trump and Russia. It hasn't been debunked -- the claims that it has are garbage.

And they constantly downvote when somebody suggests they're here

As predicted.

So tell me then. If CTR has invaded, what posts currently on the front page are evidence of this?

Amen brother.

More shilling. Sigh.

The fact that people are comparing a businessman getting pissed on by a prostitute in the privacy of a hotel room while hurting nobody and a possible peodophile ring that possibly goes to the top of the american government, possible child trafficking and child murder is a fucking joke and people need to get their shit in perspective.

I'm all for hearing everyone's side and making my own mind up and I'm not a trump supporter but who really gives a fuck if he likes to be pissed on. Even if it's true who cares what a grown man does in private. Half the cunts jumping on this like they don't have their own weird kinks that they can enjoy in private.

The problem with Pissgate is this: The golden shower portion of that document is basically a footnote, it is nothing. It doesn't even make up a single page in a 35 page document.

The rest of the document is what needs to be investigated and discussed. I much prefer the label "Siberian Candidate", because that actually speaks to the meat of what is contained within it.

If there is more to it then definitely investigate. The people acting like Donald Trump is the savior of the American people need to get a grip and if there is something fishy going on then he needs to be held accountable just as much as Hillary.

Neither candidate was good and that's an understatement people need to stop this bullshit of trump supporters vs hillary supporters and come together because as an outsider the whole American system is rotten to the core. Everyone needs to stick together and tear this shit down and start fresh.

People are acting like they never heard the phrase divide and conquer. I think this is exactly what is happening the powers that be will always have half the population on their side with the current two party system that is in place over there.

As much as I fucking hate hillary and I really believe there is some weight to the pizzagate narrative I am also under no illusion that trump is no better. I wish that people could stop being at each others throats defending people and parties that don't really give a fuck about them and come together.

If everyone in america came together and took to the streets I guarantee there would be change but they have it so there will always be a divide in the people and everyone is too busy defending a suspected pedophile or a reality tv star.

Seriously what the fuck is going on.

Amen to that. I can't believe how quickly people have forgotten that Clinton/Trump are buddies. That both are connected to the Epstein plane. That the DNC cultivated both of them.

They are both establishment giants, but somehow the protest voters got convinced Trump is anti-establishment, an outsider. The scary thing, is that contained in those memos of Pissgate, is Russia planning exactly this. To convince "protest/sanders" voters that Trump was their candidate :(

TPTB do not care about us anymore than they did before, and they haven't lost any ground.

Siberian Candi-Gate.

The main issue in the claim isn't the sex act. It's that Russia is allegedly using a video of it to blackmail Trump and control him in the White House. If true, you have Vladimir Putin in control of the US President for the next four to eight years, which, needless to say, would have disastrous consequence for both the US and the world at large.

I'm open minded and I don't discredit one side because I blindly fall in line with the other. If that is the case then obviously something needs to be done. My problem is most people I have seen in threads on the subject have been so quick to discredit pizzagate but this comes up and they are all over it like it has been confirmed as fact.

My other problem with this whole thing is that the media, hillary supporters and the obama administration are scare mongering on a foreign government having a say in american policies but seem to forget that hillary was in the pocket of the saudi's who are a foreign government and would have had some leverage on american policy which is fact. Why does nobody give a fuck about that and why is she not held accountable for selling her country off to the highest bidder. I know a presidential candiate in someone's pocket is not quite the same as as one being blackmailed but at least the one being blackmailed is not willingly selling their country out.

I don't have a problem with this coming out and I truly believe that people in power should have full transparency and be held accountable.

America is supposedly the land of the free but has the highest rate of incarceration in the world and has also made prisons and incarceration a business where it's not the likes of hillary that's filling these jails but the average Joe.

I sound quite anti american but I am not, I am anti bullshit and I think that as an outsider I can't understand how supporters on both sides can follow these parties that do not give a fuck about any of them. Like I said in a different post people need to forget democrats/republicans and stick together and tear this whole shit down regardless of pizzagate or any other scandal.

The two party system ensures the powers that be always have at least half the population under their thumb regardless of who wins. Look at obama and how he acts dropping the mic, telling jokes and acting like he does is just that. It's an act to pull the wool over peoples eyes while he fucks everyone bareback no lube, and while everyone is fawning over how cool he is for a president he is stripping the american public's right to privacy right under their noses. Not only that but is responsible for how many drone strikes in how any countries killing how many woman and children.

Just look how many upvotes and how many threads were made for him and bidens stupid fucking bromance and how many upvotes that got and then compare that to how many threads and how many upvotes were givin to him stripping back the publics privacy even more right before he is out the door.

First, let me say I don't believe in Pizzagate, Pissgate or the Siberian candidate as you cleverly call it.

The main difference is that Pizzagate is based on verifiable yet extremely weak, really stretched out circumstancial evidence. Each of them could reinforce a case if there was something tangible to begin with, but on their own they mean nothing. It's like nonsense à la Kabbala, you can invent codes that will produce any text you want from any source material, and it will mean absolutely nothing, EXCEPT when you KNOW (and I mean know, not just that someone claims it) there is an encrypted message in it.

The other two on the other hand have no evidence, circumstancial or otherwise. Those who push them claim they have but sorry, can't show them to you because reasons, but trust them, they wouldn't lie to you this time, would they?

That is not true at all, perhaps you are confusing evidence with proof, but unfortunately neither Pizzagate nor Pissgate have anything close to proof.

Evidence is a much wider category, even circumstantial applies. Hearsay is evidence. So to say that Pissgate has no evidence is flat out wrong, you can read the 35 page document for yourself thanks to Buzzfeed's idiotic release of it.

One person had a fucking profile picture of a antonius, the guy who has cults that celebrate him and pedophilia.

One person has pictures of babies for sale, kids taped down to tables, labels of "HOTARD" on pictures of young kids.

The other had a person who was hired by someone to discredit his research subject. He reported and passed on all these details BEFORE THE ELECTION. There were so many obvious and glaring ERRORS that can be instantly dismissed like the countries he claimed people were in....

Not even the most liberal of publications would touch this bullshit report.

Which seems to have more smoke?

btw nice way to gold yourself, your profile comments show you're an obvious ctr shill, and half your posts are copy/paste jobs of their talking points.

thanks to Buzzfeed's idiotic release of it.

I don't think it was Buzzfeeds choice.

Ben Smith, editor at buzzfeed, has spent the past 3 years trying to build credibility for the Buzzfeed news department. He knew he was walking into a shitstain of a media property when he took the job and he worked hard to reverse the reputation of the company...

Then NBC/Comcast started dumping money into BuzzFeed... $200 million in October of this year.

Suddenly this week, Smith is willing to throw away three years of work in order to publish unverified intel that has been circulating the industry for months without seeing publication.

I think BuzzFeed was a sacrifice play. NBC/Comcast wanted that document to be part of the public dialog, but didn't want it closely associated with their news team, so they published it using an outlet that allowed them some distance.

Now, the entire media community can reference that document without being guilty of publishing unverified info. BuzzFeed takes the reputation hit for poor journalism and everyone else can talk about golden showers.

Why are anti pro trump constantly being gilded?

Pizzage is number one but they deleted the sub for it?

The Pissgate thing looks like a 4chan joke, taken in my McCain, passed on to FBI and then leaked through the CIA to the news. That is just sick. I don't think it is true, but is that what has become of intelligence agencies? Trying to F an incoming president.

The source behind the 35-page dossier is the same one that leaked the FIFA scandal. He's proven he's credible, unlike a bunch of morons from /pol/ who threw a bunch of straight up bullshit together and created a theory that I shit you not is crazier than the one from A Beautiful Mind, strings and paper clippings and everything.

The source may be credible but the contents is mostly beyond shit. Gonna be fun weeding out the corruption regardless.

The source may be credible but the contents is mostly beyond shit. Gonna be fun weeding out the corruption regardless.

On one hand, a high-profile political figure in Clinton's inner circle was caught with a phishing scam, (post-server scandal) and their emails were collected. When people dug into them, they discovered pedophilia lingo, and an "internet investigation" ensued. What was discovered was fascinating at best, and incriminating at worst--incrimination of global-elite, pay-to-pay, child-sex-trafficking scandal. The response from the elite was to warn us that Russia could plant child porn on official computers.

On the other side, Obama (not Trump) has wanted a pipeline through Syria for years, but Assad gave those rights to Russia. The CIA created, armed and funded ISIS to topple democratically elected Assad, but Russia stepped in to prevent that. We have been fighting a proxy war against Russia for years. Since losing the election, team ObamaClintonSoros have done everything in their power to ensure continuation of said conflict, and demonization of Russia. "bbbbbut Trump's gonna smash ISIS". Simply cutting their funding and letting Putin support a democratically elected president of the region would destroy ISIS without spending a single American taxpayer dollar--in fact, it would save us money. But it would cost (((some people))) money.

"bbbbut Trump was in touch with Moscow after Obama expelled those diplomats".

That's not a conspiracy. That's deft foreign policy. Why do you want to poke the bear?

If you want to be a conspiracy theorist, fine. I am. But some things actually DO happen. Not everything is a lie. That is the state of the global chessboard at the minute. If Trump fucked a Russian hooker while in Moscow to discuss all this with Putin, and they have it on tape, I hope shes hot if I have to watch the tape when it leaks, but aside from marital infidelity, it doesn't change a whole lot.

I think it's also telling that shitposts claiming "pissgate" has been debunked but pizzagate is totally real are upvoted immensely. THIS above all else is why I believe the Russians meddled, even if they didn't specifically hack the DNC... there clearly are plenty of shills pushing pro-Russian narratives on Reddit and elsewhere

I bet the same person who gave gold to that lame brigaded top comment on the Julian Assange AMA gave it also to you. This is view clearly not supported by the majority but supported by the brigaders. Nice try.

Lol I guess your upvotes explain the surge in people to this sub.

Can we start using disprove instead of debunk... such a stupid word

Thanks in advance

Because it was 4chan dumbass

the MSM, CTR and god knows who else thinks they can create viral crap non-organically. they're learning the hard way that it just backfires on them.

pizzagate will still be around a year from now. keep up the investigation and ignore the shill here trying to shill for hillary and the corrupt democrats.

The only crazy and stupid thing is the DNC media network "leaking" whatever dirt Russia supposedly has on Trump, before it could actually be used against him. The conspiracy claim is not credible because of the context of the leak.

But what has Russia actually done? I cannot find an offical report on what and how they "hacked".

Nothing, since there's no evidence of any Russian involvement (fuck off shills, no I don't care what CrowdStrike claimed without evidence).

because TPTB like to fuck children and hate light being thrown into their shadow government.

Because it's more believable. period.

Because they want to absolutely ensure that Trump and us here on /r/conspiracy and in the alt media that have been defamed, impeded, attacked will absolutely go after them 100% when he's in office, to the full extent of the our abilities, using newly acquired executive powers, new judges, new cabinet members, and all the intelligence at our disposal to absolutely destroy them, put some people in jail, have some people put in blackops prison and actually probably execute 2 people that I can think of, lord blackthorne and the harlot of babalon

Because the media (both news and entertainment like talk shows, SNL, etc.) told everyone pizzagate was an "alt-right nut job Internet conspiracy" while pissgate is still being treated like its real.

It was not considered fact by the masses.

At most, people say it because they believe others believe it.

That's the real power and role of the institutional press - not to convince us of anything, but to convince us that others and convinced of it. This notion is called common knowledge in game theory.

This is how propaganda works. When they don't want you to have the truth, they unleash the army of social engineers into our forums and fabricate scandals to distract you...bonus is when the name of said scandal can be related to or compared to or brings to mind the true issue and in that comparison blends the two together seamlessly in the subconscious. If you dismiss one, perhaps you will dismiss the other.

Because it is always easier to fool people than convince them they have been fooled.

And which category do you fall under?

If you believe pissgate, you're already well into the latter, since there's no evidence.

Both.its the only way it can work

piss gate was huge for about 24 hrs before it was debunked and no one credible believes in it. piss gate is a totally reasonable thing to believe. trump an unstable playboy billionaire pays hookers to piss on him; that certainly fits with his public mo. on the other hand there is a bit of a leap of faith to believe that the clinton campaign was a front for a massive worldwide pizza child rape conspiracy. while i will admit the circumstantial evidence is starting to pile up, starting, it is still a bit far fetched for the average person to buy into. on the other hand trump pissing on prostitutes would be about the 3rd most controversial thing he has done this week...

Can anyone explain pizza gate? Or link it to me?

There is a pizza gate wiki.

Worth noting that even the wiki won't claim there was a pizza shop fronting a pedo ring though.

https://voat.co/v/pizzagate This is one of the current main hubs of discussion and investigation. Check out their top sticky I guess if you have no prior knowledge.

This sub and the donald have done everything they can to spread fake news that some of Trump's political opponents kidnap kids and abuse them because someone mentioned ordering pizza in an email.

Everyone from the entire media to Congress to police to Clinton's dead cat Socks has been covering it up.

That's literally it.

Have a Pizzagate starterpack.

Just mountains of evidence. mountains of it /s

https://imgur.com/d7P6t3u

Distraction.

Honest answer? Pissgate is far easier to believe, and more likely.

redpill bluepill

People already hate Trump, so it's easier for them to believe allegations against him.

We wouldn't want to disrupt their precious narrative, would we?

The reason is that the information released to the public in the "pissgate" thing was reportedly produced by a named ex-MI6 source, and information about where it came into being exists. The claims are substantial, and even if most of it is incorrect, the implications are huge.

Whereas if you take 100% of the pizzagate evidence as 100% correct, they still don't point at anything tangible. No victim, no criminal, no crime.

Before the name of the source for the Trump/Russia thing was released, I was convinced this was a 4chan spoof. I'm still not convinced that it isn't.

Why is Trump the lord and savior around here? I can't stand this subreddit now.

I'm sure a user named Delusional_Liberal has no agenda at all.

Because the powers that be and main stream media want the masses to get caught up in pissgate so they have something to be pissed at Trump about and they can keep trying to start their war with Russia.

For fucks sake. This is not r/the_donald, go express political opions somewhere else.

I think you know the answer, because one was pushed by the media who hates Trump and the other wasn't because it does not involve Trump. However, you are right to compare the two because neither of them has any evidence to back them up.

Because it's true so gotta try and hide it!

Pissgate is believable because the report was compiled by Christopher Steele, one of MI6's top Russia experts who has worked with the FBI before, was known as a trusted person by the CIA compiled the report using his personal contacts in Russia, which in-part motivated the FBI to open their own ongoing investigation into Trumps Russia connections.

Paul Manafort has/had EXTENSIVE ties with Russia and Ukraine.

Trump hired a fucking law firm that got a "russia law firm of the year" award.

Trump fucking asked Russia to hack Hillarys emails.

Trump appointed Rex Tillerson, a guy that has a russian friendship award, as sectary of state.

Trump has been almost completely silent on Crimea.

Trump's top national security adviser and Russia's ambassador to the United States have been having frequent contact.

There is complete consensus that Russia interfered and influenced our election in Trumps favor.

And Trump himself admitted he and Putin have a relationship.

Pizzagate, on the other hand, is a bunch of extremely tangible links, some going back 20 fucking years, that a bunch of /pol/tars strung together to form a narrative that hundreds of people in some of the highest positions of our government (although oddly enough, only democrats) have been killing, kidnapping, and raping children for decades.

So, Yeah, Pizzagate is crazy and stupid while Pissgate is actually believable. /u/Delusional_Liberal

Not only democrats, fyi. May want to actually figure out whats being said.

Oh, well when you put like that, I guess it's much more plausible

CHEESEPIZZA

Name some republicans on the pizzagate sex traffickers list

Donald Trump.

he's on every sex trafficking list so that doesn't count.

George HW Bush, and the rest of the Boystown crew for starters... Do your own work.

Boystown and Pizzagate are two completely separate issues. If you have a single shred of evidence linking the two I'd love to see it.

Pizzagate was an elaborate hoax dreamed up by the sick minds of Trump's troll supporters to discredit solely the Democrats just in time for the election.

Boystown actually happened, and people were arrested for it.

Not really, its all interconnected. Pizzagate only became focused solely on alefantis according to the news. The posts on reddit before that tied many different things together. I personally dont like calling it pizzagate for this exact reason, because people associate it with the misrepresented news stories. I call international high level pedophillia, or human trafficking because thats what it really is. The podesta emails and comet ping pong are only part of a bigger picture

Nah. A load of people who think they're much more clever than they actually are, and who want to believe that they know things other people don't, were easily led into this lie.

Coincidentally, they all also voted Trump - maybe they just love being lied to?

Dude the research into this all started long before Trump. The Podesta emails are wbat brought that crowd in, but its a small piece of it all. Believe what you want but i defi,itely think this deserves a real investigation.... Sound to me like youre just partisan in the ither direction, dismissing everything immediately is as bad as believing everything immediately.

So you're saying this is a partisan thing then?

I've been aware of Boystown, Jonny Gosch, Jeff Gannon, the Cremation of Care and all of that stuff for years.

Pizzagate and Podesta is just is a transparent way for Alex Jones' supporters to tie together his very visible hypocrisies and pretend that he's being consistent, missing entirely the one thing that does tie his multiple personalities together: an unending, insatiable thirst for money, no matter how many lies he has to tell.

I do not and have never watched Alex Jones. Ive read through much of the podesta emails and it is my opinion there is code used, at the very least its drugs, but given the sex trafficking code from the fbi people have taken that path which has lead to the discovery of his freaky art, spirit cooking, ties to Dennis Hastert, comet ping pong, one of the emaio contacts has a blog that livestreams children in a pool, etc.... There is enough to at least merit real investigation.

Sex trafficking code from the FBI? Are you referring to that one post from 4chan?

My bad the pedophile symbols are from the fbi....thats beside the point, i dont pretend to know what it is code for, i just know when i read some of the emails it really sounds like code for something... For example drugs, if you wanted a gram bagged for 3 different people, you could say something like, id like a slice of pizza but sliced 3 times.... Something like that. I am not claiming to know i am only claiming its suspicious and given the ties to known pedophiles and human trafficking related organizations i can understand how that is the obvious route some people take.

How you want a pizza sliced is code now?

Are you purposefully misunderstanding me?

No. Im asking a question. How is asking for a pizza to be cut something other than exactly what it is? How is it code?

For example, one email said "wondering how many Austin are going to want pizza. We ordered 1 side and need to know howthinkto slice it?"

If that doesn't sound like they are alluding to something else, i dont know what to tell you. Given that there are multiple emails like this, or is suspicious im my opinion.

Given that there are multiple emails like this, or is suspicious im my opinion.

This sentence you wrote doesnt make much sense. Who talks like this? Is this some sort of code?

It* not or.... Troll

Lol, ok. When i dont understand a crappily written sentence im a troll. When you do it youre a detective. Awesome. I suppose if i ask for a pizza sliced three times im a pedophile but when you do it youre trying to serve three people so you want six pieces of pizza instead of eight.

Nah youre just trying to not understand.... When there are multiple emails that read in a way that suggests pizza (among other words) might be used in place of another word i would like it to be investigated. Im not saying anyone can know for a fact what is being spoken about but clearly asking an entire office if theyd like to split 1 slice of pizza is kinda weird....at best its a bad joke, at worst we wont know until its investigated.

So youre like a grammar nazi but instead of figuring out what the person meant to say and correcting it you ascribe malevolent intent and require investigation?

Just fuck off dude. If you cant admit that consistent weird usage of the word pizza is at the least mildly peculiar then i dont care. Have a great day.

So if i get a sheet pizza and send you an email saying i got "1 slice of pizza and im wondering how to cut it" does that mean i wrote slice instead of sheet or does it mean we are both pedophiles communicating in satanic code? If i look at your post history and find grammar/spelling/structure errors does that mean your secretly communicating with isis sleeper cells?

No but if you send weird pizza emails relativeley frequently asking to divide a single slice of pizza between an office of people and just generally weird references that dont quite make sense if pizza is the actual subject at hand... And if you get emails updating you on the whereabouts of accused human traffickers, and youre personal friends with convicted pedophiles and invite them to jave an extended stay at your house.... Yea thats suspicious and if you were a possible future secretary of state helping a presidential candidate run....yea that should be looked into.

Got any links to all these emails that frequently ask weird ways to divide pizza or is it just the one?

I dont have them off the top of my head but they are part of the Podesta emails that basically proved Clinton "rigged" the primary against Sanders.... If you go to voat.co/v/pizzagate the best compilations of emails and other various connections/associations are in the stickied posts. Perhaps you could actually go and look into these matters for yourself before dismissing them and jumping to conclusions about what people believe. Heres the top one at the moment, im not sure if its one the lists ive seen before https://voat.co/v/pizzagate/1497611

Just searching quickly... -Here is an email stating he keeps contact with confirmed pedophile Dennis Hastert. http://archive.is/8F945

-an email where he suggests Hastert should disappear to an unknown island. http://archive.is/lHCPi

-email about a party with podesta and colleagues in which the woman writing says there will be 3 children in the pool so there will be plenty of entertainment.... http://archive.is/lgD3l Maybe innocent, but this woman also has a blog that lets people pay to watch children in the pool.

-one odd pizza related email http://archive.is/JJC1o

-another http://archive.is/JBft7

-not pizza but odd http://archive.is/9PcWi

-article showing his brother tony Podesta collects some unique art and had one artist host an event in his house including paintings of naked teenagers https://archive.fo/vddrO

• canniballistic art owned by john podesta http://archive.is/LEKyL

Look, you should go through these items yourself and form an opinion after. Some of these are more concerning than others, but all of these emails, connections, art work, etc...when taken together they seem pretty suggestive of the kind of things Podesta and co are interested in.... Can anyone know for sure until a real investigation occurs? No. Is strange taste in art necessarily bad? No.... But all of these mentioned coupled with everything else compiled is enough to raise suspiscions for me. If it isnt for you then i guess we must agree to disagree, but at least now you know that "pizzagate" is more than just one mistyped email being blown out of proportion by crazy people. The podesta emails are a part of research done by individuals that appears to tie into accusations of global pedophile circles. I wont explain everything for you because theres too much and some things might be more intriguing for you than they are to me... Like i said after going through it all, its enough for me to hope it gets looked into. If youd like to continue with your snarky assumption that anyone looking into this is a misinformed idiot then fine, i cant say i didnt try.

So, an email containing pizza/handkerchief and an email about slicing a pizza. So, youre telling me two emails is all you need to establish frequency?

Like i said. I scanned the entirety of the compiled emails, sources, etc and scanned them quickly to find a couple for you and i provided you with a large compilation and summary for you to go through yourself. Either you aren't trying to even consider this, you have terrible reading comprehension, or you're just a dick.

You said the frequency of strange pizza related emails implied some sort of code. I asked for links to those emails. Despite the wall of text and links you provided ive seen only two. Link to all these emails and perhaps, together, we can crack this code.

Again, reading comprehension..... Have a good night, bud. You clearly already made up your mind. If you ever actually want to actual about what's out there, i gave one ofthe most detailed summaries i could find. Adios, amigo(a?)

So, in other words, its just three pizza related emails. The pizza/handkerchief one, the three slice one and the how many slices/office one. Are you sure thats it because thats not many. It doesnt seem like enough to say the frequency an oddity of them implies a code. Are you sure there arent more? If there are could you please link them so i can investigate?

Hahahaha, are you literally retarted or something? Sweet dreams, buttercup. Way to totally ignore or misunderstand what im saying. Have a good night.

No, im not retarded but thank you for your concern. You wrote:

but if you send weird pizza emails relativeley frequently asking to divide a single slice of pizza between an office of people and just generally weird references that dont quite  make sense if pizza is the actual subject at hand...

So im wondering where are all these emails? Is it just the three or are you imagining things? Should be pretty easy to link to all these suspicious pizza related emails. So far ive seen three. Four if you count the pasta/dominos email but i dont see how that counts because it doesnt mention pizza. Where are the rest of the incriminating pizza related emails that you imply exist but refuse to share with me?

Yea must be your reading comprehension.... i never said it was only pizza emails and i said clearly what you should look out for.... I gave you links to do your own reading and did a little for you. You don't care. You have your opinion. Bye.

So, there is just the three which makes you a liar. Thats a pretty stupid lie considering how easy it is to discover that there is only three pizza related emails. Add that to the fact that theres nothing strange about those emails and im beginning to think youre some kind of moron.

Bye you ignorant cunt.

Smarter than you, dum dum.

Well you cant seem to read more than 2 sentences so im not sure.

And you cant read 3 emails containing the word pizza without finding a satanic pedophile code. Wow.

There is no direct link between boystown and comet ping pong but you can start here if you want https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/1cm0t3/original_research_the_mountain_of_evidence_for_a/?sort=top

Its intended to build the case for you to discern that international pedophile rings with high profile people exist. Then when you see some oddly worded emails from podesta, his taste in art, mention of spirit cooking and his friend Dennis Haster you can start to see how it could definitely be possible they are involved in the same circles.... Pizzagate is trying to build a case to get a real investigation.

Pizzagate is what happens when trolls, crazies and tinfoilers with latent paedophilic tendencies collide.

There isn't a single mention of anything to do with Pizzagate in that 'mountain of evidence' thread.

Did you read my comment? Doesnt seem like it.

"Trump fucking asked Russia to hack Hillarys emails."

stopped reading there

Getting triggered by it doesnt make it less true.

Haha, he asked Russia to find the information that Hillary illegally hid and deleted, that's your hacking accusation? Doesn't that make you feel embarrassed??

Can you Trumples read? I said he asked russia to hack, nothing more, nothing less. Doesn't it make you feel embarrassed to fanboy so hard for Trump?

I'm not a trump-voter, please don't be abusive AND self-righteous. I voted straight Democrat except for Hillary because I live in California. People can disagree with you without being made mockery of or being your lifelong opponent, dipshit. Trump asked Russia to find her missing emails, not to hack a database. He never said the word hack. The only reason you'd think he meant to hack would be if Hillary had hidden emails inside a secret server ;D

And I'm not a Hillary supporter or even a Democrat, and more so I dont know why you keep mentioning Hillarys crimes. She is a criminal, I agree with that 100%. But Trump is also, most likely it seems from his actions and the pissgate report, a criminal. You're right, I worded it incorrectly but surly you can admit it was incredibly suspicious for him to make such a statement, even in jest, with all the other evidence pointing to his campaign having heavy contact with Russia.

Twice in one thread you prove how utterly useless and full of shit you are. Anyone using a word like "trumples" should be completely ignored and mocked.

Do you have a better word for people that blindly support Trump and dismiss everything against him as fake news?

Umm people? Are you such a child that you can't have a discussion without petty name-calling?

Not much more so than those spouting cuck, no, but I never claimed to be anything more, I just think pissgate has evidence contrary to OPs opinion

So you're just as much of a child as they are? Glad we could come to a conclusion. Get to bed kid it's late.

re read this comment and tell me you arent kinda an idiot for typing it

I don't see anything wrong with it. I described him as a child, not trying to insult him just describing his bahavior. You might need to work on reading comprehension kid.

only you believe that

Keep telling yourself that

ok bitch

Love seeing you people devolve into the losers you truly are.

glad to help you out bitch

Awww look at how mad you are. How pathetic.

yeah super pathetic, right bitch?

You should probably still read the post...

Why don't you cram your snide advice up your milquetoast ass?

Lol k

You're not wrong about the emails. It's just a dumb reason to ignore the rest of a discussion, and especially to declare so.

Love your insulting tho, go for it

For real though. The second one see someone say that I know they aren't too bright.

So you have compelling evidence that it never happened?

Despite Donald Jr.s statement in 2008:

“Russians make up a pretty disproportionate cross-section of a lot of our assets,”

You must have some serious evidence if you are convinced Trump wouldn't hit Russian intelligence up for a favor if he thought it would benefit him.

You are the one that's making the accusation it's up to you to provide the proof. Which you cant.

Actually, that's not the way it works. You made a claim... or rather, supported a claim made by another poster. I asked you for evidence backing up YOUR affirmative position.

But it comes from the general claim by the left and the media that he told Russia to hack hillary. Until you can provide actual proof of this you're a joke.

“I will tell you this, Russia: If you’re listening, I hope you’re able to find the 30,000 emails that are missing,” the Republican nominee said at a news conference in Florida. “I think you will probably be rewarded mightily by our press.”

That's all you have? Wow you really are desperate.

What evidence would satisfy you more than him asking Russia to deliver Clinton's emails to the press.

He is asking Russia to provide information obtained by hacking.

Is he actually asking them to hack... not technically. He is just asking them to provide the results of the hack.

Umm how about evidence of your actual claim.

The claim was that Trump asked Russians to hack the US... Does that quote not support the claim?

Jokingly in a press conference he asked them to produce the lost emails. Never asked them to hack them and never asked seriously. Did you actually read your own quote?

Did you actually see the quote made... It wasn't a joke.

Neither. And you must not have any sense of humor then. I'm not going to argue this sad and tired talking point with you. Everyone with a brain has already moved on, time for you to do the same.

You're right. This honestly isn't the most relevant part of the story... There are much more compelling negative aspects of Trump to be discussed and this is a distraction. I'm off to talk more shit about your hero on a throwaway. Have a nice day

He's not even close to my hero just the far lesser of two evils.

You must have a sad pathetic life if that's how you spend your day though.

You're practically slobbering on Milo Yannopolis cock in another thread but Trump isn't your hero...

Maybe he's your Daddy?

Lmao where am I doing that? Milo is funny but I don't like him and definitely don't talk about him very much. And how sad is your life that you have to scroll through people's post histories then make shit up to make yourself feel better.

I'm not trying to make myself feel better... I just want you to feel worse for defending an asshat. I don't care if he is less bad than Hillary, that doesn't make him GOOD, which is what I want from a president... hell I'd settle for less than awful, and Trump can't make it over a bar that low and he isn't even in office yet.

Well we had two options. We picked the lesser of 2 evils and now we have to delay with it. Calling him an evil racist isn't going to help the situation either.

I don't believe I have ever referred to Trump as evil. I don't give him that much credit. You have, twice, however.

I think his treatment of people in section 8 housing is worse than racism, so I don't usually bother with that accusations either. Same with his methods of dealing with unwanted tenants in rent controlled apartments.

Calling him on his bullshit CONSTANTLY is the only thing that is going to help the situation.

All of those instances are what, 20 years old? How is screaming about that over and over again going to do anything other than divide people more?

First off... I haven't been screaming about that over and over... I just prefer the argument that Trump doesn't respect working class people over the argument that Trump is racist. I can give you more recent examples of that type of behavior, but then I have to source them, whereas if I mention those two incidents, you already know exactly what I am talking about.

Why do I want unity with people who find that behavior acceptable? If I'm at Jonestown, am I supposed to drink kool-aid I know is poisoned to keep people from being divided?

From what I've seen on reddit the left is completely against any sort or unity because of how upset they still are that they lost the election. Maybe you'll try to be a decent human being once you calm down and realize the world isn't ending.

I don't believe in the left right axis as anything other than team labels, so you missed your mark on that one.

Keep the ad homs coming though.

Wait so you don't think that the country is deeply divided right now?

Sure... we're divided. "Left/Right" and "Republican/Democratic" divisions are for plebes and useful idiots though.

Oh so you're just a petty elitest. Ok glad we got that out of the way so I know to ignore you now.

I suppose one interpretation of plebes might mean that... I was thinking of it more in the term it is used in the military for new recruits. People who haven't been in the game long enough to see the big picture.

If you use that term on reddit though you only mean it one way. Everyone who isn't you is stupid. I understand your attitude now.

And if you ever went to a military academy they only mean it one way there. Maybe you need to consider that not everyones life experience or reddit browsing behavior matches yours.

We aren't at a military Academy though are we? We're on reddit. Done talking to you though. Can't disagree with someone that is smarter than everyone else.

Please, before you leave... do us both a favor and block me. I love to learn from people who provide me with new information, but you never did, and honestly, your attitude is shit.

You can't be bothered to follow actual rules of the site, but you think I need to match the linguistic behaviors of its users. If you don't think that's ironic...