Since I was a youngster I've always been very critical of the government... but now if the first time in my whole life that I have been like... "Oh boy... this is a real chance to fix this shit."

And if this election was all a very elaborate underdog parable/hoax then in the end I'm in the same place I would have been before... so optimism is the only reasonable course.

What's elaborate about it? A billionaire global businessman conned a bunch of rubes. Happens every day.

Yeah... but if it was a plan for Trump to be president all along then it wasn't something the MSM was let in on... I could believe it was pre-determined if it wasn't for the confusion and outrage of the MSM... they aren't that good of an acting troupe... I can read body language and other more subtle clues... they were blindsided for the most part.

You need to consider the possibility that the powers that be are not united and have sectarian struggles within their own organizations.

Yeah... I know Trump is a spearhead for the FBI and Armed Forces with accomplices in the police and NSA... but for the MSM to be totally caught with their pants down and truly not to expect it... that takes balls... to attempt a coup without the CIA and MSM on your side.

Fox News was on his side the moment the primary ended, and they have more viewers than the next three news networks combined.

Well they surely didn't have that viewership before the election proceedings... they saw a vacuum in the echo chamber and moved to it faster than the rest cause they were halfway there already.

Well they surely didn't have that viewership before the election proceedings.

They've had that viewership for over a decade.

"In fact, celebrating its 20th year on cable, Fox News finished 2016 as the most-watched basic cable network in prime time and total day, a first for the network."

Did people give up on watching the the other channels and Fox viewership has stayed the same?

Did people give up on watching the the other channels and Fox viewership has stayed the same?

A first for "prime time and total day" is not necessarily a first for prime time.

No way. Fox has always been the best in terms of ratings.

I guess Fox was lying when they said they were finally #1 for the first time in in their 20 year history. Can't trust those damned TV networks!

Source on that?

http://www.adweek.com/tvnewser/2016-ratings-fox-news-channel-is-cable-tvs-most-watched-network/315009

In fact, celebrating its 20th year on cable, Fox News finished 2016 as the most-watched basic cable network in prime time and total day, a first for the network.

I assumed we were talking about cable news. Your article is talking about both prime time and day time. Prime time is usually dominated by ESPN and TBS (source). So this is the first year that Fox News did both.

However, of cable news networks, Fox is the champ. In 2012, Fox News had been the #1 rated cable news channel for eleven consecutive years (source). 2014 was another year of continued dominance. So basically, yes, Fox is far more popular than CNN or MSNBC.

No matter what semantics are used they are the certainly the largest now... and for another 16 years at least.

Dude wat... You said

Well they surely didn't have that viewership before the election proceedings... they saw a vacuum in the echo chamber and moved to it faster than the rest cause they were halfway there already.

They have always been the same. You said the MSM was caught with their pants down, while in reality they have always been in the bag for Trump and they have been the most popular establishment pick.

Yeah I guess I was wrong... I didn't think Fox was a very popular station cause I always heard people shit on them...

You're just making things up now.

Yeah I was wrong about this... as I admitted below. I misinterpreted something, but we got it straightened out.

Pretty much. As long as Trump has sided with the non-child-eating parts of the FBI, I'm happy to give him a chance and see what he can/will do. If we're gonna have to pick lesser evils, f--k the CIA. And the MSM.

The GOP's stance against selling of aborted fetus' organs/body parts tells me they aren't on the side of any baby eaters... not that Trump is on the side of the GOP either.

I'm as certain as anyone could possibly be that Trump is not on the side of the baby-eaters. And no, I'm not gonna try to offer up proof, people can take the statement or leave it. I've been following this madcap election for a year and a half now, and based on everything I've learned in aggregate, Trump, while certainly not perfect, is not a kid-fucker.

I am hesitant to give the entire GOP credit for "not being baby-eaters" because--let's face it--for the most part, R and D are both uniparty globalists offering an illusion of choice. But I do think there are "a few good men" left, folks like Mattis, Chaffetz and Pence, who are not down with Spirits and the Cooking thereof.

There's a lot of sick $#!+ in this world that I've only just learned about. Trump has been carrying that knowledge for probably half a century now. Good on him for finally having had enough of it and seizing this one opportunity to strike.

I never usually bring up anything partisan, but I figured I'd make an exemption in this case.

Don't forget Gowdy! If he doesn't believe the words coming out of hos mouth, he is the greatest actor ever.

How could I forget Rowdy Goudy? :)

More likely a "teen fucker".

Exceedingly unlikely.

I'd say he's more likely than the average person in America.

And I'd say he's less likely. But then again, I had the willpower to prevent the mass media from brainwashing me into hating him. So there's that.

I can read body language and other more subtle clues

Woah guys, we’ve got a bloody Sherlock on our hands!

He’s figured out the election was rigged from the body language of the journalists!

Who are you talking to?

Why would now be the first real chance to fix this? What could Trump have possibly convinced you of?

It's not Trump... it the people pulling his strings... the FBI, NSA, Armed Forces, and the Police.

FBI, NSA, Armed Forces, and the Police.

Wait, so you think they're the good guys?? Are you sure you're in the right sub?

Yup... I got a knack for this shit... Think back about why you wanna hate these groups... was it a long running propaganda campaign to smear each community in their entirety while overlooking the fact that they might just have shitty leadership and a few bad apples at some points in their history?

I go next level on these theories.

Wow, just wow. You brainwashed yourself... amazing.

Isn't it beautiful? My mind is a clean machine... torn down and rebuilt for peak efficiency... reformatted and defragged and willing to consider the things most people don't consider... sure... most of the conspiracy theories get shelved pending additional information... but a few like this one check out.

No, you're like someone straight out of 1984 or Brave New World. You've turned reality on its head and decided to bend over let them fuck you up the ass with no lube.

You don't know what governmental standards I hold myself to... if I was brainwashed by Big Brother wouldn't you think I would hate the police and the NSA like everyone else? But, nope. You are the one swallowing the narrative if you think the rank and file members of the armed forces are all evil or if you think people sign up to be cops cause they just want a licence to kill.

The NSA is part of the Big Brother system. We aren't quite in 1984 yet, but we would be if everyone started acting like you and thinking that surveillance is a good thing.

The NSA is trapped in a tough spot... Think of Batman in the Dark Knight... once the bad guy is disposed of he won't need to spy on innocent people anymore... Without the "whistleblowers" in the NSA working with with FBI&Friends they would have had a much foggier look at the plans to sew terror in America post election.

Guess what? Once the current made up "bad guy" is disposed of they'll make up a new one to justify their jobs and their power.

FBI&Friends is solid NewSpeak though. They are the people who brought you COINTELPRO and tried to get Martin Luther King Jr to kill himself and possibly had a role in his assassination. Most of the so-called terror cells they have found in the last 15 years have been the result of FBI entrapment That's the FBI Comey was talking about when he said to Trey Gowdy "this is the FBI you know and love".

They don't want power... they just want people to be safe... You are harping old shit and minor issues and ignoring the big picture... the same trick I said everyone is falling for. You wanna bitch about an agency trashtalk the CIA or GEOINT or USSTRATCOM.

FBI are the real deal now a days... It's okay if you don't believe in them... cause they believe in you.

I believe... that they are the same piece of shit nazis... they always were... and do not care one whit for the safety of anyone... They lie... entrap... and fabricate evidence... like they always have....

Real men don't comment on posts that are days old.

Is this original? Holy shit

What scares the corrupt elites more than citizens with guns? Officers of the law with guns and training who swore an oath to protect the rules of society and the people within it. If you can make the two fight each other the equation balances itself... but if they ever believe in each other... there is nothing to stop that 1% from facing justice and having their fortunes repatriated.

Interesting line of thought. thanks man

Well he's already delivering on all of his promises within the first few days but keep on shillin for the hilly I guess

Well he's already delivering on all of his promises within the first few days

That's what I'm afraid of. A lot of his promises were shit to begin with.

How the hell did this person "shill for hilly"? Did they mention Hillary? It is delusional to think that if you aren't with Trump, you are for Hillary.

So which side does the DOJ fall on in your wacky little delusion? They are a government agency. They have been investigating police and finding widespread problems in police departments across the nation.

DOJ is all over the place... But they have looked pretty good for the last few months... gonna have to wait and see if they come clean... I'm worried about that Executive Order Obama signed on his way out the door... gives succession of the AG to be replaced by DC, Chicago or California attorney.

In the end I think DOJ will end up being better than ever....

https://www.justice.gov/usao/pressreleases

I say we should always be critical of "leaders", especially in a democracy. A healthy amount of skepticism and challenging the narrative is a great way to keep a check on government. If they can back up what they're doing and prove they're doing good then great, the skepticism helped boost credibility. If they either keep quiet, lie, or you end up exposing something bad then great, your skepticism helped expose the government for what they really are.
Obviously what I'm saying is very open ended and broad, but for good cause. Because this sort of attitude can, and should, be applied to pretty much everything. It's called critical thinking skills, and I don't think it's a coincidence that it's not (commonly) taught in schools these days. At least when I was in school the only critical thinking course we were offered was a once a week optional additional lesson during the last two years of school. And it was essay based. Pssh, yeah like that's gonna sell it to a bunch of 17-18 year olds who already have enough stress from the abhorrent school system on their plates.

Agreed. Just avoid an art degree.

Major in marketing, minor in art ;)

Yeah ironically my friend who makes the second most money out of anyone I know out of college was an Art History major. The other didn't go to college at all.. but your average person..

I think that when you really have passion for something, it will be easier for you to work hard in that field and thus a higher chance for you to make money.

Major in history, minor in marketing, join an art class.

Bill Hicks would tell you to kill yourself ;)

Philosophy is the same way. A philosophy minor makes someone a more rational person; a philosophy major makes them a zombie.

Eeh kinda. Less educated people are also less productive.

but they are more re-productive

The problem comes when you actually need qualified people in government to do stuff properly. You can't just make everyone dumb as fuck and then live happily. The more incompetent people are, the more they are prone to mistakes in critical jobs, the easier it then becomes to expose wrongdoings in the government, because of the mistakes people make. All financial criminals were extremely intelligent people, who knew and were willing to gamble the system. So the tricky part for the government is to make the education system be able to produce competent staff, while simultaneously make people obedient workers without much of critical thinking skills.

As long as your morals are strong, and you dont do the things you speak out agains, skepticism is an amazing tool for growth and learning.

What we need to be critical of is the idea of 'leaders' and authority at all. Authority is not something that truly exists among mankind- it is a claim made by one group/person that another group/person chooses to agree to and accept. That's it. It's an agreement built on a false belief- the belief that any person has the right to dictate what other people are allowed or not allowed to do.

There is inherent, objective truth that we can discover and come to understand in this universe. The natural law of the universe is about understanding the true difference between right and wrong action. And to define natural law is easy and self-evident: we don't have the right to initiate violence against or steal from other beings, whether that is theft of property, physical well-being or life. Such action is wrong action in this universe, 100% of the time; it always has been and always will be wrong. Understanding the objective truth of natural law is simple; whether it is easy or not for a being to live accordingly is another question. The founding fathers of the United States of America understood natural law and that the idea of the authority of man over any other is untrue and illegitimate. That all men are of "separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and Nature's God entitle them" (Declaration of Independence, 1776 [emphasis my own]). And furthermore the founders of this country held "these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" (Dec. of Independence, 1776). This is the understanding of natural law and true freedom.

So if the authority of man is an invalid supposition, then any institution which claims authority over others, such as GOVERNMENT, is illegitimate and has no such authority. Because an individual cannot delegate a right that they don't have to someone else. And if we as individuals don't have the right to initiate violence and aggression against other people, we cannot bestow that right on any other person or group of people. The institution of government is one that extorts money and resources from people at the threat of violent action against them. If you do not do what the government tells you you should do, if you do not pay the ransom the government demands you pay for your 'freedom', then the government will send in its gang of armed thugs (the police and military) to forcibly put you in a cage or murder you. This is the agreement we all unthinkingly accept and condone by conferring authority to government and then obeying their threatening commands. I own me; you own you. End of story. The only authority that any man can claim is over himself, anything else is WRONG action and in violation of the laws of nature.

Those guys are so cool and they thought so cool for those early times

It’s nice to see the American pre-school propaganda is working.

Now class please stand and sing with me..

“Dear Leaders, Founding Fathers, you make the Sun Shine and the Earth Spin….”

are you not american?

Which act are you talking about?

Daily pledges of allegiance to the state.

And to define natural law is easy and self-evident: we don't have the right to initiate violence against or steal from other beings, whether that is theft of property, physical well-being or life. Such action is wrong action in this universe, 100% of the time; it always has been and always will be wrong.

Total bullshit. How the fuck did evolution happen without conflict? No, before ‘Government’ we were all happy hippies in a 24hour circle-jerk.

People have always been in conflict with each other, and always will be, it always has been and always will be.

This comment is just more classic American pseudo-religious worship for the ‘Founding Fathers’ who just happened to be a rich bunch of old whiteys who owned other people ffs, and then had the audacity to talk about the rights of men.

the authority of man over any other is untrue and illegitimate.

Hmmm, unless you bought them at the slave market, right?

So if the authority of man is an invalid supposition, then any institution which claims authority over others, such as GOVERNMENT, is illegitimate and has no such authority.

So the Founders come up with this idea that no man can rule another, and then instantly join the Government that rules over everyone?

While I agree that Governments are bullshit your ideas are very immature, the Founding Fathers were no better than the current group of elites we have right now in Government and in fact much less accountable.

There are no natural laws beyond survival of the fittest.

While I agree that "survival of the fittest" got us as a species to pretty much here, now, we've developed and provided ourselves with the means to be able to transcend the need for conflict. We, as a species, have achieved global colonisation and instant global communication. We know that we share the same air and water with everything else on this planet, we know that everything must live in harmony and balance to stay alive as every species depends on another in one way or another - the circle of life. We have provided ourselves with the knowledge and means to healthily maintain that balance, and the knowledge that if that balance is upset too far in any direction then there will be a collapse. We know it's possible that we can maintain this while also expanding ourselves as a species further into the cosmos, and as individuals and a species expanding our consciousness. So why don't we?
Choosing now, of all times, to get selfish is going to end up with a complete collapse of the global ecosystem that holds us all in balance. We know that, and we can see that in real time happening - climate change. Yes, government has been a useful means to keep us "in order" to get us to this far, but we don't need that anymore. We have the knowledge and means as a species to transcend the need for a central governing body of any kind. This time in human history, as we currently know it, has never been before. This is all new to us. So we need to be careful in paving our way to a new way of living: a way that works in harmony with nature and the planet. Because we are nature. These bodies our consciousness inhabits evolved on this planet to live from the fruit of the planet. This is information we need to spread to see ourselves into this new age of man sensibly.

Are you an Anarchist? Just asking because I love to see other far-leftists like myself in the wild.

I would call myself an anarchist in the literal sense of the word- the root being from the Greek a/an meaning negation or against and archon meaning ruler. So anarchy is the state of having no rulers. And I 100% support having no rulers or masters, because to not have a master is true freedom.

What anarchy is not, to me, is a state of no rules. I know the laws of nature to be true and to say there should be no rules is entering into the dangerous realm of moral relativism and solipsism. When you enter "define anarchy" into Google, the first definition you get is "a state of disorder due to absence or nonrecognition of authority", with related words like lawlessness, chaos, mayhem, turmoil, etc.

The concept of anarchy has been co-opted by the dark forces that hold the real reins of power on this planet. They took a word that means having no masters, which is to be truly free, and contorted its meaning and connotation to be one of chaos and disorder. So I'm not sure how you are defining anarchy but I completely reject the far-leftist label. True anarchy, true freedom of the individual over themselves, has nothing to do with the left/right false dialectic that we call politics today. It is a divide and conquer strategy that pits one group against the others and ultimately perpetuates suffering on this planet. I am a human being who stands for right, moral action and condemns suffering and slavery of all forms.

Well said. I used to get extremely disheartened by my punk rock friends who threw around the idea of this lawless, chaotic, derelect utopia they had envisioned and called "Anarchy". I always took it to be something as you described. Not having a ruler or ruling class, which as you pointed out, is true freedom. Couldn't upvote you fast enough

Yeah, it is disturbing to see how much of a psyop has been done on humanity to the point that the idea of not having a ruling class threatening you with violence if you don't pay them = a lawless society of violent people threatening you...it's the pot calling the kettle black and a complete logical fallacy.

I think that human nature is aligned with the laws of nature; we all experience pain and possess the consciousness to understand right from wrong. Humanity's natural inclination is to cooperate and work together. The success of the individual is almost always predicated on the success of the group, and so placing value on the well-being of the individual naturally creates a group made up of well individuals. This process of cooperation happens organically, utterly regardless of whether there is an authority like government in the picture. All this ruling class, that we're calling government, is doing is demanding a percentage of each person's resources and labor for the ability to...what, work together like they were doing anyway? So it isn't for the ability to build and accomplish things together that we pay this ruling class. What it comes down to is paying the ruling class not to initiate violence against us and put us in a cage, because 'they' made a 'law' that we have to pay 'them'. And that's nothing more than an armed gang of violent people preying on the human community.

Let me link you to some of (Mark Passio's)[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K0IHO7SQu0E] and (Larken Rose's)[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N6uVV2Dcqt0] work on the subjects of authority and government if you want to look more into the true meaning of anarchy. (Larken Link 2)[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YNWnBmoFiGQ] (Mark Link 2)[https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AC3SAbw4tXw]

Thanks so much for the links. I'll check them out tonight

I think you get it. Read up on Murray Bookchin. Awesome anarchist philosopher.

Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into his work.

Who do you think this fools?

It's so funny how the liberal lies get out there before the truth. Sean Spicer didn't even know about the gag order. He was asked about it during the press conference today.

You have to understand that every media source you get your "news" is going to make up stuff, and they are going to work with moles in the US government to turn everything into a scandal.

I don't know what happened yet either, but I did read a news article that these places were pushing out liberal stuff after Trump was inaugurated. So you can imagine someone noticed it and shut it down. It's a trap set by Obama and the left and the media.

Trump thinks that you can take less than 10 years to build a bridge and still be a good steward of the environment. I don't consider pipelines to be bad for the environment except for when people blow them up.

Tons of things, but it won't be any of the stuff the left criticizes him of. Two days ago, they were all talking about how the inauguration was empty. Weeks ago they were talking about how Senator Sessions is a racist. Every day there will be new liberal lies.

There are definitely tons of things he could do that would make me critical of him. I want to see what he does with the 30-50 million illegals, whether he puts tort reform in as part of his O-care replacement, what he does to the $20T in debt, etc.

War will be a good indicator too.

I understand ISIS is going to take a minute, but it should really be wrapped up this year.

If we end up at war with anyone else (China for example) he may just be a different side of the military industrial complex coin.

But even with that, if his side is a no pizza, no slavery, no organ harvesting side. It's a win, smaller for sure but a win.

How is he not already a part of the military industrial complex? He campaigned on and continues to promise an increase in military funding and updates to our strategic ability, and regularly uses nukes as a talking point.

Dude is completely sold out to the military contractors already.

He has two major military contractors put on notice in the most public of forums before he even took office.

Boeing and Lockheed. As if the military was going to just go away, at least now they know theyll need to be respectful of taxpayer dollars.

So we're taking President Trump both at his word, and at the face value of his 3 AM tweeting?

If he sells out and starts getting praised by the Mainstream media.. I will definitely have to look at him more critically

At the moment he's media enemy #1, and I'm fairly confident he is pissing off the right people. When the media starts going light on him we'll know he's been flipped

"I can't make my own decisions or decide things for myself"

Um... unless you have direct access to the trump administration or congress... all of your decisions are based on what you hear in the news, friend

There are plenty of terrible things he could do that wouldn't get him media praise.

I agree, which makes it dangerous that the media is fixated on lies about crowds and donald pissing on beds in russia. They've cried wolf so many times, nobody's going to believe what they have to say about Trump.

the media is fixated on lies about crowds

The President lied and the media called him on it. That's how it's supposed to work.

He didn't though. CNN used a fake picture. I've talked to witnesses who were there.

Yes, he did. There are side by side timelapses showing that conclusively that he was lying.

There's a picture from 2013 to compare the one they provided to prove they are lying.

The comparison was to 2009.

THE PICTURE THEY PROVIDED WAS FROM 2013. THAT WAS THE PICTURE THEY CLAIMED WAS 2017 TRUMP. DO YOU READ ME

Are you crazy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdantUf5tXg

My god yes you've done it!

Find me a copy of the image or one similar enough that it's clear they were from the same event that was posted before Trump's inauguration, then.

You seriously never looked independently and refuse to look? Wow

I have looked. I have found no evidence of your claims. You're the one who says it exists. Presumably that means you've seen it so you should have no trouble showing it to me.

That picture wasn't fake, the one you are thinking of that says it is fake... Is itself fake.

No matter how bad you want to believe, that was not faked

Oh, so the picture of the empty square was factual? Get real man.

Huh? Provide sources. no idea what you're talking about

Trump lied about the crowd size and he continues to lie about the illegal voting so..

He didn't. I have a friend who was part of the inauguration guard and patrolled the grounds. CNN lied to you.

err.. what? What are you talking about? Lol. I'm confused as to what you think the perceived lie was, now.

How high are you right now

you like to get angry and accuse people of altered mental state when called out

It amazes me the mental gymnastics people do, I have no other explanation.

the fact that you downvote a thread noone sees shows you're upset

You mad bro?

you might be

Hey now, I'm downvoting you, too.

Why the fuck should we believe anything just because some random internet guy said his friend saw something different? You realize how insane it would be to just blindly trust some anonymous dudes friend over idk thousands of other people right?

Cool, don't believe me but I'll trust someone who patrolled the grounds over a fake news fucktard.

Did they count each person on their own fingers and toes?

You can believe whatever you want but don't expect the explanation of "my friend said so" to convince anyone else.

There are pictures, go look at them

Critical thinking in action, folks

lol no

Excellent rebuttal

Thank you, I thought it was perfectly banal response to a perfectly banal accusation. What rules we play by! What prizes we win! :D

I play by American rules, not Trumps. It was a very low crowd size. SAD, really. We are only still talking about it because Trump loves his own reality, not reality.

Also, can you provide a source, other than Trump, for 3-5 million illegal votes? Or are you just going with him on this one?

Anyone who watched any of the live steams can tell you that the picture the media used of Trump's inauguration was taken early. http://i.imgur.com/zE6wQGa.jpg

Look I can believe that main picture that has become so popular was taken perhaps at an earlier time within the day. But with that said, your picture of the very front of the crowd in no way is indicative of size of the entire inauguration.

Like you can't expect to just show me a picture of the very front of the crowd, which is obviously packed and then I'm supposed to think "oh yeah it must be packed as fuck in the back too because this guy posted a picture where a lot of people are in the front so naturally it must be really packed in the back too!!" I mean that's just some stupid shit.

Surely you can understand that just because you share a picture that does not in any way display the size of the entire crowd, that for me changes nothing.

Perhaps I showed you the wrong picture. But like I said anyone who watched any of the live streams can tell you that the picture they were using was taken from earlier on. There were also protesters blocking entrances as we saw on the livestreams. I'm not saying this one was bigger than 2009, because it wasn't. I'm just showing you that the MSM used a picture taken earlier in order to "prove" that no one likes The Donald. http://i.imgur.com/hqW9367.jpg http://i.imgur.com/txe1byu.jpg http://i.imgur.com/Gd4Ng42.jpg

First off, I do agree with you. I could tell from the first time that the photo surfaced it could've easily just been taken at an inopportune time...

With that said, it doesn't really change anything. The crowd size was obviously significantly different than 2009. So idk why the President has decided to make it a point to argue otherwise.

Sure the timing of the picture that most MSM used is certainly questionable, the point that crowd sizes were significantly smaller than before is not. Like I've shown before, other pictures and statistical information from the public transit website can confirm this.

What did the president say exactly?

This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period.

Sean Spicer ^{^}

And I was explaining about the numbers. We did a thing yesterday at the speech. Did everybody like the speech? (Applause.) I’ve been given good reviews. But we had a massive field of people. You saw them. Packed. I get up this morning, I turn on one of the networks, and they show an empty field. I say, wait a minute, I made a speech. I looked out, the field was -- it looked like a million, million and a half people. They showed a field where there were practically nobody standing there. And they said, Donald Trump did not draw well. I said, it was almost raining, the rain should have scared them away, but God looked down and he said, we’re not going to let it rain on your speech.

In fact, when I first started, I said, oh, no. The first line, I got hit by a couple of drops. And I said, oh, this is too bad, but we’ll go right through it. But the truth is that it stopped immediately. It was amazing. And then it became really sunny. And then I walked off and it poured right after I left. It poured. But, you know, we have something that’s amazing because we had -- it looked -- honestly, it looked like a million and a half people. Whatever it was, it was. But it went all the way back to the Washington Monument. And I turn on -- and by mistake I get this network, and it showed an empty field. And it said we drew 250,000 people. Now, that’s not bad, but it’s a lie. We had 250,000 people literally around -- you know, in the little bowl that we constructed. That was 250,000 people. The rest of the 20-block area, all the way back to the Washington Monument, was packed. So we caught them, and we caught them in a beauty. And I think they’re going to pay a big price.

President Trump^{^}

Okay? And?

People sworn to uphold the political party have taken the place of those who should have the Constitution and the American people as their top priority.

Nothing else matters from the top down, other than remaining in power. I understand that it has been evident for decades, but it truly ramped up during the final years of the Bush presidency. And once the Republicans got their "mandate" during the '10 mid terms the defiance increased ten fold. If the OTHER guys want something WE must oppose it...As seen in the TPP posts on r/politics yesterday, Trump pulled us out of a trade deal that would be bad for our country and the script on reddit flipped because HE did it.

I agree fully with OP, don't trust anyone that wants to lead you, look at what they're doing/planning and ask why. Even if it will benefit you in some way...

The comment sections of r/politics are an absolute ciclejerk of uncritical people from my experience.

Best example was when Russia supposedly hacked the Clinton emails, when in reality they were probably leaked.

Commenters then proceded to attack Russia and putin for being involved in foreign elections, not even realising how hypocritical their allegations were. Just to remind you: The US has attempted to influence foreign presidential elections as much as 81 times only from 1946 to 2000. Overthrown governments are not even included in this number.

It always amazes me that people for some reason don’t think their Government are cut-throat sociopathic organisations entirely without moral or ethical direction.

However, it’s the way the narrative is framed, America are the ‘good guys’ Russia are the ‘bad guys’. When in fact they are both equally pieces of shit.

While I do not support any political party, it is the same reason Hilary lost, so many Democrats essentially thought “oh, we’ll win because Trump is clearly evil, we’re Democrats afterall, we’re the good guys!”

It happens when you've been brainwashed since birth.

Russia is the only country upholding freedom and democracy while the US is propping up dictators.

So Assad isn't a dictator? The dude wasn't on the verge of losing power due to multiple insurgencies not even counting ISIS for nothing, he gassed his own people and Putin backs him. Also I get that Chechnyans are a bit extreme but Putin had no qualms bombing the fuck out of them, collateral damage be damned, and they were Russia's own people for decades and beyond.

Face the facts Russia plays the same game we play, there is no difference, it's the game of geopolitics and realpolitik.

So Assad isn't a dictator?

Apparently not, according to representatives of the UN peace council.

Also this independent journalist who went to Aleppo to see for herself what was going on.

I'm sure there are lots of others but those are the two mains ones I've seen.

Apparently not, according to representatives of this UN peace council.

The same people who put the Saudi's in charge of the human rights council, a country that still persecutes women for going out in public without a male chaperone, and executes people for witchcraft and heresy, all stuff most of the rest of the world grew out of in the 1800's.

Also this independent journalist who went to Aleppo to see for herself what was going on.

This has no bearing on Assad's past deeds at all just one persons take on things based on her current situation which hardly has the resources to see more than what affects her and the people she's "embedded" with. Also there are tons of other "independent reporters" who have various different opinions reporting from Syria, just go into r/syriancivilwar.

Of course you didn't even watch the videos. They go into great detail about who they talked to, what they learned, and why things are being portrayed the way they are.

But if your whole point in discrediting these representatives is that the UN is evil then why are these guys going against the narrative of the UN? AFAIK the UN has provided support and resources for the fight against Assad yet these representatives are saying that Assad is not the brutal dictator everyone is saying he is. Ad hominems usually don't work when trying to argue, it's an ineffective fallacy.

And really that video of the journalist was kind of supporting material, not to be used as stand-alone evidence. The meat of the argument comes from that council, and I just provided that journalist's testimony as kind of a show that the representatives weren't blowing hot air. They weren't the only ones saying the widely accepted narrative was false.

Of course you didn't even watch the videos.

Dude I'm at work get off your high horse I'm not watching your 52 minute and 24 minute video on shit I already know about. Even asking someone to take 52 minutes of my life rather than just laying out your own evidence is bullshit and somewhat selfish, that stuff should be attributed as the source for said argument rather than forcing me or anyone else to sit through it.

But if your whole point in discrediting these representatives is that the UN is evil then why are these guys going against the narrative of the UN?

I'm not sure what you think the "narrative" of the UN is, the UN is just like any other political body, there are different factions that are competing to pull the strings and usually those factions differ depending on who or what is in charge of what and which.

AFAIK the UN has provided support and resources for the fight against Assad yet these representatives are saying that Assad is not the brutal dictator everyone is saying he is.

Like I said different factions favor different groups, like you said they're obviously supporting the fight against him yet saying "he's not such a bad guy" obviously conflicts with that so you figure out which it is or go ahead and confirm your bias either or, the main thing is which country's rep. is saying this, if it's Iran of course they are saying that he's their longstanding ally, same with Palestine/Lebannon, if it's Russia, well duh he's their horse that they're backing.

Ad hominems usually don't work when trying to argue, it's an ineffective fallacy.

Like I said I'm replying with what I can use right now, the UN is a corrupt organization made up of many factions, of course they will have conflicting positions on a major event in world history and current events, fallacies be damned, just use your brain man.

They weren't the only ones saying the widely accepted narrative was false.

Well most of the other places that the "accepted narrative" is being challenged are coming from Russian funded Macedonian fake news/propaganda pushers, so that instantly fucks up your argument here, believe me I've seen my fair share in r/syriancivilwar in the earlier days of that sub. It's a fairly standard Russian intel tactic, but this is r/conspiracy where we're blinded to Russian malfeasance because the US is the "evil empire" or whatever. they're just another player in the game trying to win, just like we are.

Agree, r/politics is controlled very tightly. But Russia (and China, Iran, Ukraine, mexico, etc too) did in all likely hood hack those servers. They would be stupid not to and their intelligences agencies would not have been doing their job if they did not...ffs it was so poorly secured in the first instance. However, I don't think they leaked anything. I actually believe Assange on this.

A great example would be to lookup how Pinochet came to power then what he did with that power.

Most Trumplings (internet ones at least) jerk off to Pinochet. Don't expect self-reflection from them.

r/politics is a circlejerk of uncritical opinions

Says r/conspiracy, this place can be every bit as bad if not worse.

This isn't a here or there problem this is a people in general problem, we have our idiots they have there's just like the right and left do just like hip hop fans and metal heads do, it's something that goes straight across the board. Stop buying into the US vs. Them bullshit. r/politics wants a better America just like the Americans here do, they just have a slightly different view of it, and the idiots among all of us take the bait and their views skew to the extreme of whatever side their on.

Not to mention it's the idiots that usually shout the loudest so they feel like they aren't so dumb

And yet you're speculating as much as they do. You don't actually know the truth and yet your reasoning is all based on that assumption. You disagree with them. That is different then your guesses are better then their guesses. Plenty of stuff with no significant proof gets pushed in both directions.

One of my rules, always find something good in everyone. I think we would get a lot farther along socially if we all do that. As long as you don't threaten my life, liberty, or property (given im not harming anyone elses) then your ok in my book. I might not agree and you might not be correct but those rights are unrevokable until you void them for yourself by taking these rights from other people. That is the fundamental social contract. You must uphold it to get it.

Trump tossing out the tpp is a good thing. And I think the hiatus in the insurance fine is also arguably a good move. But he's not doing a good job overall.

One of my rules, always find something good in everyone.

Sounds like the exact opposite of /r/conspiracy mantra. Find something bad in everything, whether it exists or not.

Actually it's quite embarrassing for the most part. I see people here all the time with absolutely no information whatsoever, concluding that something must be bad, because it has to be, for no other reason than that, and this is supposed to be viewed as an enlightened view of reality.

I think it's great to question, be skeptical, and look for truth. The majority on this sub do not adhere to that.

That's why he said it's one of his rules. He didn't claim everyone on this sub believes in it.

How is not doing a good job overall? He's been in office, a week now? How is that any indication of an overall presidency. I'm legitimately curious.

You are aware that you can state a first impression on someone and make a judgement on the ability to do a job from day one? correct?

As of yet, I don't think he's doing a good job. He can literally DESTROY all of these allegations by releasing his tax returns. he can protect himself from Enolment clause violations and a future impeachment by divesting his businesses.

Two things, and holy shit, he's shot down 2 of his major issues and soundly disproved the critics.

He has already written a bunch of executive orders, you know. Same thing we called out Obama for doing? That's kinda shitty.

I don't have any views on the TPP, even though I hate Trump. Because of that, I have not posted in the /r/politics thread. I'm too busy dealing with all of Trump's other shit. Maybe other people feel the same way. And maybe I should get informed and see if I have a different opinion, and if I do to voice it there.

Pulling out of the TPP will create China as a superpower.

I agree, I was definitely opposed to the TPP as written, I would have preferred though that we stay in it and renegotiate it. The deal effectively would surround China with U.S. trade allies.

deciding to cripple the US's renewable energy industry will also let China basically monopolize that market, and therefore the whole world's energy futures. Considering how his main economic policies will create a power vacuum that China is most primed to exploit... it's more likely he's a Chinese plant than a Russian one, tbh.

Not a Trump supporters but I will support him for things I agree with including his stance on tpp. The script flip yesterday here threw me for a fucking loop. Wtf reddit.

"at any cost" -- Donna Brazille

No it fucking doesn't. The definition of patriotism is "vigorous support for one's country". Be critical all you want but don't call a fucking apple an orange.

"Vigor" meant what we call "health" today.

"To support the health of one's country."

It's not apples and oranges.

What in the fuck are you on about? Get a fucking dictionary or go to an online dictionary.

vig·or ˈviɡər/ noun 1. physical strength and good health. synonyms: robustness, health, hardiness, strength, sturdiness, toughness; More 2. LAW legal or binding force; validity.

And conversation derailed into pedantry. What did I expect.

You asked for definitions, I gave you definitions. Sorry you were wrong!

You don't keep track of usernames? Reddit must get confusing for you..

You're a bright one, buddy!

Shills are gonna shill but we just keep on being people, thanks.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

-Teddy Roosevelt

Quoting a person does not change the meaning of a word.

Yes, you can quote the textual definition of patriotism, but you're missing the forest for the trees. Patriotism is a concept that espouses standing up for the ideals of your country, and one of America's ideals is that all men are equal under law, no man gets to do whatever he wants just because of his position. That the presidents power is derived from the will of the people, not of his own. Being skeptical of those in power is part of that, and those values are enshrined in the very fabric of our country.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."

Teddy Roosevelt, as one of the greatest presidents ("a person", lol), has a far more intimate and personal understanding of patriotism than you do.

So you are telling me, in your first sentence, that patriotism is an emotion that is interpreted on an individual level, and then in your last sentence you're saying my interpretation of this emotion is wrong?

Tell me how being skeptical of anybody falls under your definition of patriotism, which is, "patriotism is a concept that espouses standing up for the ideals of your country, and one of America's ideals is that all men are equal under law, no man gets to do whatever he wants just because of his position". One of the first ideals of this country is that we CAN do whatever we want within our professional and personal positions, inside the parameters of the law. You can even argue, doing what we want because of our new position is why America is even a country today.

Objective criticism is one thing I welcome. But we went from nothing the president does is wrong during the past eight years, to everything the new president does is wrong now. From nothing is a scandal to everything is a scandal now.. It's very transparent.

I meant in general, not specifically to this sub. But the alt-right took over? Yea, OK then..

I meant in general, not specifically to this sub. But the alt-right took over? Yea, OK then.. Why do you say that, because it's not hard line to the left like most of what you're used to on reddit? I think this sub is quite diverse with mostly skeptics.

That's some good hyperbole there. This post is on the front page of /conspiracy. So how are you being silenced? But yea, this post isn't even that objective or interesting and it's filling the sub now..

No, there's way more diverse opinions than you're trying to make it out to be. Yet we all have more in common than differences.

But lately it's getting filled with divisive horse shit like this.

"if you even sniffle anything that puts Trump in a bad light you will be silenced. Sometimes even by mods."

"Those of you here only to stifle this type of discussion are the real conspiracy."

"This subs been taken over by the alt-right"

There's no bait to bite coming from me. Your divisive posts are the bait. And I guess you got me, I bit.

Funny, when I look up your username on https://redditcommentsearch.com/, not only does it only find posts starting 3 months ago, but your VERY FIRST post in r/conspiracy was:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5az1fz/what_happened_to_this_subreddit/

Interesting. Seems you've only come here to disrupt the discussion from the moment you bought your high-karma account.

His comment isn't hyperbole at all. I've had comments removed here by the mods.

http://i.imgur.com/sedngLB.png

lol we all know how the sub votes and this is funny to watch. I wonder what it feels like to throw all this money at our sub, only to see every single actual user dissenting. What do you think it feels like, fellow patriot?

lol I've found that nothing signals the presence of someone currently feeling less than reasonable than a self-righteous condemnation of "alt-right scum" or whatever. Just personal experience.

to be right = telling the truth

word origins don't lie

This subreddit was doing just fine before you showed up trying to push your agenda. To quote my previous post:

Funny, when I look up your username on https://redditcommentsearch.com/, not only does it only find posts starting 3 months ago, but your VERY FIRST post in r/conspiracy was:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5az1fz/what_happened_to_this_subreddit/

Interesting. Seems you've only come here to disrupt the discussion from the moment you bought your high-karma account.

I'm sorry, I meant comment. Please show me a comment from r/conspiracy older than say 5 months ago.

You know what's weird, is that method of stalking someone's previous comments and the "I'm reporting you" stuff is exactly the behavior, almost down to the same wording, as a GMO "advocate" who used to patrol these parts. Also note the "there was no criticism of Obama" talking point being bandied about. I don't know how these folks could get more obvious.

But we went from nothing the president does is wrong during the past eight years

That is another big lie,

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/poll-obama-approval-rating-111902

I'd go so far as to say that if you aren't critical, you aren't a patriot. A patriot's love of country means he is always looking for the nation to improve.

Is one required to be a patriot if born and existing on the land? I would argue no. Being a denizen and/or citizen does not obligate one to be patriotic.

yes...but no so paranoid that you become the Tim McVey.

Funny how if this post was from last year the sentiment would be different

Except this one for some reason

I seriously think most of you guys suffer from a minor case of paranoia or something.

Still waiting on that conspiracy if you want us to get going on it.

Oh ok well there's why you don't see it making the rounds. I'm surprised you come here. You really don't have a feel for it.

Paranoia? You do realize what sub you're in, right?

There is literally a way you can prove it... go into your options and allow public viewing of your upvotes and downvotes...

https://www.reddit.com/user/Ninjakick666/downvoted/

See... there is mine... I'm what they call a clean machine... no downvotes on me.

pro govt shill eh

You wouldn't be surprised, actually. It's very competitive pay, for nerd-virgin treason.

downvoting all dissenting opinions with my 100s of accounts

That is literally exactly what you do. Very smart accusing others of doing it before they suspect you!

So go get a conspiracy. How do you think this works?

Funny, when I look up your username on https://redditcommentsearch.com/, not only does it only find posts starting 3 months ago, but your VERY FIRST post in r/conspiracy was:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5az1fz/what_happened_to_this_subreddit/

Interesting. Seems you've only come here to disrupt the discussion from the moment you bought your high-karma account.

Don't fall for it. They can't just stay here forever, and it's not like we're an emotional sub. We rely on meat and potatoes facts and/or slight suppositions from time to time, yes, but never emotions or anything so flimsy as consensus or shaming.

You spread more lies,

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken-walshs-washington/2015/02/23/criticism-of-obama-reaches-new-level

Not a lie, my opinion

Obama was long time CIA

But controlled groups like tea party and trump said he was a Kenyan muslim to make conspiracy theories about him look nutty.

See, here's the problem. The thing that I am most skeptical about more than anything at this current moment in time, is the Main Stream Media. They just spent the last year lying their asses off trying to prop up one of the worst presidential candidates imaginable, while simultaneously propping up the three candidates Hillary had the best chance against, Ted Cruz, Ben Carson, and President Trump. Then, after they successfully got Trump the nomination, continued to demonize him via every form of media at an unprecedented level, while refusing to cover any of the ridiculousness that was the DNC's entire 2016 presidential race.

So forgive me if I'm skeptical of your "skepticism". I think we all need to collectively chill the fuck out for a few weeks and see what happens. Personally, I liked his message at the inauguration, and I like how he handled Obamacare (didn't fully remove it) and TPP. Two things we would not have seen under a Clinton presidency.

I'm so tired of people coming to this sub with accusations that "isn't this sub supposed to be skeptical of our government??!??"

Yea, as far as I've seen so far, the establishment fucking lost. If that starts to change, I'll be the first one to call bullshit. But for now, there's way too much hate for anyone to even believe this could work.

Politicians are guilty before proven innocent

Good thing we didn't put a politician in office for a change, huh??

centered and objective and paranoid

Centered and objective does not = despise Trump and everything he does! I'm complaining about the people like you who accuse me as being the partisan one, while you try to spread Trump hate.

Be skeptical of government, sure. No shit. But for the first time in US history, we have a President that came directly from the private sector, bypassing all military or government positions that usually precede a presidency.

Hence, why I say give the man a chance to fuck up before just assuming that he's the devil and the end of America.

And of other governments

hahaha

Oh my god maybe if you guys keep saying this, a rogue Trump conspiracy will appear and we'll all start talking about it.

Lol the rogue Trump conspiracy.

• Trump owes hundreds of millions to foreign-owned companies

• Neither you, nor I know how much he owes because he refuses to do a financial disclosure, which he promised

• His team has consistently communicated with Russia

• He is bizarrely lying about crowd size at his innauguration

• he criticized the CIA - which this sub fully supported - and now says he loves them, they are the best. That's like a span of a month.

• He appoint his children to positions of leadership within the White House, probably because he needs that unconditional support. You've seen all the leaks today, I'm sure.

Answer this: do you care who Trump owes money to? Especially if it amounts to hundreds of millions of dollars, to entities owned by foreign officials?

His team has consistently communicated with Russia

Is it such a bad thing that we avoid another Cold War?

Has Trump lifted the sanctions yet?

Would you be opposed to that?

that's the most desperate conspiracy wannabe list I've ever seen

you were cucked by sachs. I know it sucks.

EPA is a government agency too and we should be critical of it. They've certainly been part of the bloat and corruption.

There's work to be done with NASA too. The problem seems to be a lot of stagnation and cronyism in these agencies. LARPy goals and big budgets that don't materialize into anything.

They aren't being dismantled. I would like to see an expansion of NASA actually, and see some kind of push for colonies on the moon or Mars.

NASA is getting some good funding in 2017 from the military budget... picking up imaging satellite responsibilities from GEOINT... going domestic on the production of fuel/propulsion systems.

Well that may be true but the bigger problem is not direcrtly in the EPA but may stem from it and other agencies like it... Think of all the damage and money lost thanks to caps on how much big corporations are fined when they cause massive damage such as the BP oil spill in the gulf of mexico. They may have caused billions in irreversible damage to our planet but they get a manageable fone of a few hundred million, barely even hurting thei profits.

Volkswagen got hit for 4.3 billion in their settlement... and criminal charges will prolly be filed as well.

And as for my example with the BP oilspill and others like it?

That too far in the past to do anything about now, probably... or possibly it was overblown to spin some agenda towards nice safe Saudi Oil.

If the banks are being forced to pay for the mortgage crisis you know no one is above massive fines.

My point is that the fines are minscule in the big scheme of thungs. They hardly punish bad behavior many times and the EPA in many cases :"allows" those businesses to operate a certain way because they know their profit will greatly exceed any potential penalty.

That was the old way... I don't think $4.3 Billion is that miniscule... thats gotta hurt even a big company... especially with the bad PR factored in.

Nobody gives two shits about the money spent by the EPA beyond the simple annoyance of having to pay for something you oppose.

What people care about is the affect the agency has on industry, development, and the economy overall.

Where was all of this criticism for the last 8 years? Oh yeah, a person with non-white skin was in charge of our government, and thus, by law, cannot be criticised.

Oh my god my account isn't even a year old!?!? Well of course that can only mean I've been around since the creation of my account. Ya know, because you can't make as many accounts as you want, and this isn't a public webpage.

Oh you're right guy! Keep telling me how I am forgetting my past. I forget, I don't know what I've done, only u/honkimon knows where and when I've been to certain webpages. Thanks for reminding me buddy!

Yeah with your only point being my account is less than a year old. You are saying I have only been here for the duration of my account. I'm saying I've been here much longer than just since the creation of this account. How have you not picked up on this? Are you dumb?

He's a shill, he'll just try to weasel out, don't even try.

http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/ken-walshs-washington/2015/02/23/criticism-of-obama-reaches-new-level

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/10/poll-obama-approval-rating-111902

http://www.politicususa.com/2013/08/22/liberal-media-myth-debunked-study-shows-u-s-news-critical-bush-critical-obama.html

Don't try to change history liar.

How about some cnn news critical of obama?

How about a Breitbart article critical of Trump?

So Cnn is on the level of breitbart?

No, nowhere near, but it does have a left leaning bias. My point was that we can't expect that all news sources will be 100% non-partisan. There are some media sources that lean more to the right and some that lean more to the left. Not a big shock.

So find me a cnn piece criticizing obama

find a breitbart criticizing trump

Again we are back to cnn being equal to breitbart?

it should be your opinion that breitbart is even better than CNN and more unbiased. I guess you're saying tho that since CNN sucks it's ok for breitbart to also suck.

Gotta be honest... this is my first debate where ive been told what my position should be. Not even sure how to respond

lol is your brain glitching

the answer is you have no good way to respond cuz your views are contradictory and programmed into you.

i dont know how to defend an opinion that isnt my opinion. Cnn is equal to breitbart is my opinion. You want me to defend breitbart as better... thats not my opinion

you answer should have then been to state your real opinion. but you can't cuz you know I'm right

join my side and wake up and stop supporting trump just cuz he lied to you

I have the luxury of always easily winning arguments.

Maybe your real opinion is that you like trump

blocked for being cucked by sachs

Fuck patriotism. I'm here because I want to see empires burn.

I'd support a legit empire

unless it was critical of Obama, then you were a racist bigot. Or against Hillary, then you were a woman hating misogynist.

Arguments ad Hillary disqualify you from discussion.

case in point

Thank you for replying to my message

CTR is still active looking at the downvotes

I am so critical of my own government in Germany. Trump is a saint though.

The American founding fathers said to question the government every once in awhile and to shed blood to "refresh the tree of liberty."

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

Is this place getting brigaded?

Lol. Anti-government post, and your response is "brigade". Case in point.

By trump supporters, yes.

" To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men." -- Abraham Lincoln--

Trump took his oath on Lincolns bible. And one his mother gave him.

Man, what a piece of shit.

Agreed, we need to come to our conclusions based on facts and reason. Even if you would like to think you can trust the people in power you need to stay aware of what they are doing and examine it for what it is. Although I hate politics I would be a fool to say that things that happen in politics cannot affect me.

Yeah no, just be objective about it. Most criticism I see today is "x is a bad person because y-ism"

Get an argument and people will talk about it and discuss the issue. To be honest this post is pretty much "hey it's ok to hate your govt". It's great to be critical but there is no way people just go around with a happy face if they have a critical issue at hand. Even pizzagate, without too much proof got spooned into a huge discussion on here, daily. I don't think people are blindly following some guy and can't be changed with a good point and some evidence.

Just a reminder that a couple months ago it was racist to criticize our government. Food for thought

That's bullshit - it was never even remotely implied in the mainstream that it was racist to question the government under Obama - what was fucking racist was much of the opposition. Let's not act like it wasn't. Maybe not you in particular (and I certainly can fault the administration on many things - the ACA was a shitty deal for the middle class, the drone war escalated, we let Russia annex significant portions of Ukraine, the NSA debacle that had basically put a hush on real dissent, the ongoing militarization of the police, the list goes on and on). But many many people did not like Obama because he was black. I worked with guys who would yell the N-word at the TV when he came on the news in the crew house. I have been around numerous people who thought he was a secret Muslim born in Kenya - that's all bullshit - he didn't take any guns, he didn't institute Shariah law, he was a relatively average American politician.

Than where was all his criticism? It was awfully quiet for 8 years, especially on some of these message boards.

What are you talking about? The boards were filled with criticism. Just look at the talk of it being hypocritical to pardon Chelsea Manning but not consider Snowden, just look at the outrage over the killing of Anwr Al Awlaki - a US citizen! Without due process- I might add.

If you didn't see criticism on the internet you simply weren't looking.

Sean Spicer didn't even know about the most public of forums before he even took office.

What if you don't care for patriotism but enjoy helping others and fighting the evils of corruption?

Patriotism doesn't exist anymore; there's only rebels and tyrants.

Being critical of your government as a Trump supporter means holding him to his promises. Building the wall, term limits, healthcare replacement, no war, etc.

Patriotism itself is a stupid notion.

Why be blindly loyal to your country “because you were born there”.

It’s basically a concept to get poor people into wars while the elite profit from it.

Fuck the Government, anyone who wants to ‘govern’ other people doesn’t deserve the job.

Yup!

Sure, unless our President is a half black traitor. Then your dissent is racism no matter what your skin color is. In fact, you are racist even if you didn't dissent because by virtue of your melanin content you are in a position of power and therefore, had to have thought about dissenting you racist fuck!

It's funny you say that. I completely agree.

In past years, When people I know have criticised the American war on terror they have been labeled as"unpatriotic". When in fact, they are the most patriotic of all. Where is the sense in that.

It's not Trump... it the people whose job it is dangerous at times.

Noam Chomsky said "There can be no such thing as anti-American in a Democracy, that term only exists in a Totalitarian State."

"jfk was just a man, who cares about him"

Constant propaganda against Trump. By that argument we've now got the most patriotic mainstream media ever. Makes a change.

Still waiting on that conspiracy if you want to have your partisan ego stroked go to college at all.. but your average person..

^ This guy gets it

Answer this do you care who Trump owes hundreds of millions to foreign-owned companies.

No.

End of story.

why would you not care who trump owes?

I "owe" the 3rd largest bank in the world, that happens to be based in Japan, money.

So what?

Because he suffers from extreme cognitive dissonance.

I "owe" the 3rd largest bank in the world, that happens to be based in Japan, money. So what?

You're not the president so, nothing.

Always, with all governments. Normally people who claim this quote is ideologically polarized. But totally agree, we must be critic and never believe the official truth

Oh my god my account isn't even a year you'd see it's always been objective on it's political slaying.

So how are you talking to?

We are only still talking about it during the past eight years.

It's only patriotic when the left does it. It's treason when the right does it. At least, that's what I've been told over the last 8 years combined with what those same people are telling me today.

I joke but... it's ridiculous. We should always question our government. If anyone among us is a traitor, it's the one who stops questioning government after their candidate of choice wins the presidential election.

Except in regards to certain pizza places, that type of criticism makes people think conspiracy theorist aren't legitimate. Now let's talk about haarp killing all the bees.

HAARP was shut down (and sold) before the bees were dying en masse.

http://www.sigidwiki.com/images/d/df/HAARP-3_wave.mp3 This needs a 4 on the floor...

Thanks man, wouldn't want people thinking we were fucking around over here

And I remember being called a racist prick for being critical of some of Obama's policies. Just like I'm a racist prick for believing in some of Trump's policies.

I think we should set up some sort of alternative political party to the 2 that we have now.

Agreed. A party of the working class (of both sides) FOR the working class.

The time has come.

"Everything under heaven is in utter chaos; the situation is excellent."

What should we call this? "The Workers' Party"?

I know... they have managed to divide us quite well on those issues. If only there was a channel for constructive communication between both sides, and the media is unfortunately the antithesis for that. A lot of education has to happen on both sides, so that we can get past the idea that one group can impose lifestyle choices on the other (lifestyle choices that ultimately don't harm others' lifestyle choices)... so that we can all focus on the common enemy that is economic insecurity/inequality.

Call it the Pizza Party

Funny you mention it now TRUMP is president..

All the right has been doing for the last 8 years is criticizing Obama. Birth certificate garbage and whatnot. Don't whine about criticism.

Yea but they were called racist for it. Now you're called racist if you DEFEND Trump

There is a saying, "If you want to find out who is in power, just find out who you are not allowed to criticise."

There's also the hiding behind a secret deep state government method, so you don't even know what to criticize.

Disobedience is the true foundation of liberty. The obedient must be slaves.

---Henry David Thoreau

I still say however, that it can be equally stupid to be critical of Everything your government is and does.

This kind of talk might get me banned, but let's take Obama for example. Some criticisms of him where pants-on-head retarded. So he's a Kenyan, atheist Muslim who is also the anti Christ, and will create death camps, and will declare martial law.

All you do is make yourself look like you need mental help by being so anti government you bend reality into a fantasy world.

So be critical of his drone strikes, back door dealings etc. But if you actually think something so otherworldly as him being the Anti-Christ, stop and think about how retarded that is.

The people like Mike Rivero (What Really Happened) and Alex Jones who support Trump, seem to have cancelled their skepticism and its a pretty scary thing to watch.

Sure its easy to be disgusted with the Trump haters too, t, their ignorance is just as disgusting, hell, even the people who are blind to the sellout Bernie who can be seen hugging McCain, it makes me sick.

Who the fuck does that leave though?

The "patriotism" and the liberals who agreed to let the terms of the election divide this country will now have to live with their compromises, and the future is getting very very scary for America.

Horribly destructive?

Pretty quick to pull the trigger without actual tangible evidence yet.

The evidence is already in place, unfortunately.

I just wanted to let everyone know that I personally would never be critical of my government - to do so on the other Internet of all places - such a public forum! - could influence the beliefs and potentially the actions of many people. To do so would be dangerous, unpatriotic, and could damage my Facebook-Sesame Credit score when it is inevitably implemented (if it doesn't already exist). To the ever-present ears of the internet security apparatus presently searching the Internet - you've found another completely not-disillusioned American who is totally in favor of conforming to the whims of the new administration.

Indeed I find that the best course of action is to sit back and let the smart guys in Washington DC do their job without a critical eye and with unfaltering loyalty to the cause. I can't let things like the definition of factual, or the definition of reality get in the way of our combined struggle to make the world safe, democratic, and prosperous. Indeed those are just words - the only thing that matters are the inherently accurate words and intrinsically ethical goals of the new administration as we mobilize as a society to take on the rising threat of East Asia.

The issue is not that we want to defend Trump, the issue is we are fucking baffled as to why people are suddenly "waking up" because Trump said he'd grab you by the pussy when we have been bombing innocents for decades and the "PATRIOT Act" has been around for as long. That we have been at war with a noun since dictator Bush. That people are protesting the wrong things (Trump is not a threat to women's rights, the oligarchy is a threat to humanity).

Cognitive dissonance. People act like they would be complacent if Hillary had won instead, when all the real problems would have still existed.

Resistance to what?

Get real; your march was because you guys didn't get your daily fill of Play-Doh and coloring books and because your candidate lost.

Resistance to what?

Well, for starters, a man that says, "I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn't get there. I did try to fuck her. She was married" being awarded the highest office in the land. He is on tape recounting how he tried to seduce a married woman, and instead of the public shouting him down as a hypocrite for representing the "part of family values," they reward him with the presidency.

Then, of course, there are other issues, like his intention to restrict women from receiving the vital health care they need from places like Planned Parenthood, who perform cancer screenings and routine checkups for millions of women each year. Not that you give a shit about that, I'm sure.

And, many of them are probably scared to lose provisions in the ACA like insurance companies denying applicants for pre-existing conditions.

Get real; your march was because you guys didn't get your daily fill of Play-Doh and coloring books and because your candidate lost.

Why don't you buy a dildo and go fuck yourself with it?

What issues and what behavior exactly?

Rule 10, first warning.

The point is, the media has so thoroughly presented the guy as the most terrible human being imaginable, an inconceivably racist and misogynistic white man that is unfit to serve as president.

This was the persona they created for him for months, so now that he has won, millions of women are outraged that this demon is now their leader.

Have you ever met the President? Has 99.8% of the women marching ever met him? No? Then everything that you think about him is a construction of media.

"But I can just SEE what he said for myself!!!! They are HIS words that the media is repeating!!!" blah blah blah. Out of context quotes seem to contradict his personality compared to EVERYONE that meets him.

I know I'm wasting my breath, and you're just going to downvote me with all 5 of your accounts, but at least I tried.

I'm not supporting Trump. I'm supporting whatever is worse for the establishment. And right now, at this moment, he has yet to do ANYTHING that the establishment is in favor of. As soon as he does, I'll grab my pitchfork.

Upvoting because the establishment needs to go away, and Trump is our first step.

So what a bunch of girls and beta males got pissed at their "march for...un-articulated reasons" and hate Trump. They are nothing in the grand scheme of things and do nothing to build up this nation. They would rather destroy it.

The Constitution trumps everything.

I understand that its important to be critical of government. People have been doing that for thousands of years. Even when governments or sovereigns didn't allow people to publicly disapprove the people would still find a way to talk amoungst themselves.

With todays climate of unrest and not any real unification on principals the only thing this causes is mistrust in our citizens judgement through out the world. Since we live beyond our borders and everything hinges on world views and economics, to lose trust causes us to damage our future.

If there were demostrations that focused on principals that the majority of people stand behind then it would appear that our grievances have merit. Unfortunately with people everyone has a gripe and most of this is expressed through constant demostrating which water downs the power of free speech.

Even through out demostraters they have not agreed over why they are demostrating. They basicly just don't like the guy running the country and even before a problem arises they demostrate in case it does come up as if a possibly has merit.

Who loses? Our children and our livelyhood. When so many voices start yelling about so many different thoughts of disagreements,the only thing that is accomplished is a crowd yelling and no one listening.

That's fine but where were you when Slick Willy was out raping people? Don't act like this is some SJW principle you're standing for because it's not. You just dislike the republican president and that is your real issue

As a person that voted for President Trump I believe this is the most important thing to keep in mind over the next 4 or 8 (but really 8) years.

Steve Bannon had a great quote after the election that resonated a similar message.

Edit for spelling

Hear hear brother! Finally a reasonable word!

If mad dog maddis wants you dead, you're dead. I suspect that's not high on his list.

I agree!

On a side note: it's important to realize that the fed's authority is only validated through the states. So if there is something that you and people in your community disagree with on a federal level you can always nullify. The problem people have had with this is that when the fed does press charges against someone, the state doesnt back them up. That's where the people have to step in and make sure that doesnt happen.

That is so true. But.. Explosions, Fires, assaults, bad language etc are not part of that discussion.

Notwithstanding Dick Cheney, you are absolutely correct.

Damn straight !!

intersting, the last 8 years everyone critical of the government was labelled a racist and/or conspiraca theorist

When Bill was in office, I was too young to vote but I can remember the Monica Lewinsky scandal. I remember watching all those presidential addresses and just thinking, "I don't think this guy is telling the truth."

I've felt the same way about every president and most candidates and hopefuls since. Bernie seemed legit as did Ron Paul.

I realized at a pretty early age that the government takes money from you, doesn't tell you what it's for, decides to use your money to kill people on the other side of the world without your consent and penalizes you for not giving them enough money.

I run over the same potholes on the same streets past a dozen abandoned public schools and countless abandoned houses but sure enough, we can afford to send predator drones to countries I'll never even see.

I was skeptical of Bush for spying and war overseas, I was skeptical of Obama for spying and war overseas, and if Trump continues those policies I'll be skeptical of him, too.

The amount of Trump shills and The_Donald regulars here is absurd.

I can't believe a bigger deal isn't being made of it after the constant bitching about CTR Shills for the entire election.

Really silly, isn't it? The conspiracy subreddit is currently defending the government from criticism. Bizarro world.

They have exposed themselves for who they truly were.

I was told for 8 years if I was critical on anything the administration did I was a racist.

Now if I don't say anything against the Trump administration I am a sexist.

Personally being 41 years old - Trump is another added to the list of presidents that:

1. Don't give a fuck about me or my children
2. Are traitors to their oath
3. Should be put in prison

Only thing the last 3 election cycles have taught me is people I have known for decades are closed minded ass holes.

Instead of trying to talk politics I just keep my mouth shut. Obama? Trump? Doesn't change that fact that I feel I have to keep my mouth shut around those I consider my closest friends and family.

Democrat is President crickets

Republican becomes President we must be critical of everything he does. RESIST!

-- Reddit

It's very patriotic to support the patriots

On a related note, I'm just as fed up with Trumpmania as I am with anti-Trumpmania.

I agree. I also want to make another observation. I'll probably be called a pro Trump shill or something similar.

But I've noticed that this liberal movement is similar to a teenager going through a rebellion phase. Everything Trump says is good, they'll disagree with, even if they agreed with it before. Everything Trump says to do, they'll do the opposite. Becoming pro-TPP and pro MSM are two examples off the top of my head.

Again, I'm probably nothing more than a shill so don't pay attention.

Yeah, staying objective can be extremely difficult at times because of the overwhelming amount of disinformation mixed in with real information, and the manipulation of opinions and meaning. I do know that my feelings on TPP won't change, despite how much they try to push it now, and it's encouraging to hear the same from others.

yes...but not to blow up buildings just because you think the government planted a microchip in your skull.

Very well said and I thank you for it.

Thats my secret, I am always critical of any government and regulation.

Yeah ironically my friend who makes the second most money out of anyone I know out of college was an Art History major. The other didn't go to college at all.. but your average person..

Except this one for some reason

you like to get angry and accuse people of altered mental state when called out

No matter what semantics are used they are the certainly the largest now... and for another 16 years at least.

Dude wat... You said

Well they surely didn't have that viewership before the election proceedings... they saw a vacuum in the echo chamber and moved to it faster than the rest cause they were halfway there already.

They have always been the same. You said the MSM was caught with their pants down, while in reality they have always been in the bag for Trump and they have been the most popular establishment pick.

You mad bro?

So go get a conspiracy. How do you think this works?

Oh, so the picture of the empty square was factual? Get real man.

Hey now, I'm downvoting you, too.

Major in history, minor in marketing, join an art class.

Did they count each person on their own fingers and toes?

The NSA is part of the Big Brother system. We aren't quite in 1984 yet, but we would be if everyone started acting like you and thinking that surveillance is a good thing.

Guess what? Once the current made up "bad guy" is disposed of they'll make up a new one to justify their jobs and their power.

FBI&Friends is solid NewSpeak though. They are the people who brought you COINTELPRO and tried to get Martin Luther King Jr to kill himself and possibly had a role in his assassination. Most of the so-called terror cells they have found in the last 15 years have been the result of FBI entrapment That's the FBI Comey was talking about when he said to Trey Gowdy "this is the FBI you know and love".

How about a Breitbart article critical of Trump?

You can believe whatever you want but don't expect the explanation of "my friend said so" to convince anyone else.

Critical thinking in action, folks

are you not american?

I know... they have managed to divide us quite well on those issues. If only there was a channel for constructive communication between both sides, and the media is unfortunately the antithesis for that. A lot of education has to happen on both sides, so that we can get past the idea that one group can impose lifestyle choices on the other (lifestyle choices that ultimately don't harm others' lifestyle choices)... so that we can all focus on the common enemy that is economic insecurity/inequality.

Bill Hicks would tell you to kill yourself ;)

find a breitbart criticizing trump

Of course you didn't even watch the videos.

Dude I'm at work get off your high horse I'm not watching your 52 minute and 24 minute video on shit I already know about. Even asking someone to take 52 minutes of my life rather than just laying out your own evidence is bullshit and somewhat selfish, that stuff should be attributed as the source for said argument rather than forcing me or anyone else to sit through it.

But if your whole point in discrediting these representatives is that the UN is evil then why are these guys going against the narrative of the UN?

I'm not sure what you think the "narrative" of the UN is, the UN is just like any other political body, there are different factions that are competing to pull the strings and usually those factions differ depending on who or what is in charge of what and which.

AFAIK the UN has provided support and resources for the fight against Assad yet these representatives are saying that Assad is not the brutal dictator everyone is saying he is.

Like I said different factions favor different groups, like you said they're obviously supporting the fight against him yet saying "he's not such a bad guy" obviously conflicts with that so you figure out which it is or go ahead and confirm your bias either or, the main thing is which country's rep. is saying this, if it's Iran of course they are saying that he's their longstanding ally, same with Palestine/Lebannon, if it's Russia, well duh he's their horse that they're backing.

Ad hominems usually don't work when trying to argue, it's an ineffective fallacy.

Like I said I'm replying with what I can use right now, the UN is a corrupt organization made up of many factions, of course they will have conflicting positions on a major event in world history and current events, fallacies be damned, just use your brain man.

They weren't the only ones saying the widely accepted narrative was false.

Well most of the other places that the "accepted narrative" is being challenged are coming from Russian funded Macedonian fake news/propaganda pushers, so that instantly fucks up your argument here, believe me I've seen my fair share in r/syriancivilwar in the earlier days of that sub. It's a fairly standard Russian intel tactic, but this is r/conspiracy where we're blinded to Russian malfeasance because the US is the "evil empire" or whatever. they're just another player in the game trying to win, just like we are.

Philosophy is the same way. A philosophy minor makes someone a more rational person; a philosophy major makes them a zombie.

Funny, when I look up your username on https://redditcommentsearch.com/, not only does it only find posts starting 3 months ago, but your VERY FIRST post in r/conspiracy was:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5az1fz/what_happened_to_this_subreddit/

Interesting. Seems you've only come here to disrupt the discussion from the moment you bought your high-karma account.

I believe... that they are the same piece of shit nazis... they always were... and do not care one whit for the safety of anyone... They lie... entrap... and fabricate evidence... like they always have....