This guy is just trying to create trump vs anti trump tension/hostility on this sub, he's a shill. Now watch this get 200 comments, all back and forth bitching about whether trump is legit or not....
Notice how almost all of the comments are attacking OP or his sources (without even saying why they're bad). Common disinformation tactic, sad that it's being used so much lately here.
You obviously care about the downvotes or else you wouldn't be bringing them up...
I know you've said you read it, I just don't believe you.
So if OP said there is a tremendous amount of circumstancial evidence that points to Trump being compromised would that be better for you? Or would you find something else to complain about instead of trying to argue about the content?
And no, I think OP could've had a better title. Something like "I've compiled quite a bit of evidence that leads me to believe Trump is a Russian asset" would be better, but I don't feel the need to argue over semantics while ignoring what was actually posted.
Trump is not a Russian Asset and to assume that was even possible shows a distinct and obvious ignorance towards the intelligence communities capabilities.
Ok, lets discuss a different one then.
Why is it you are so keen to suggest the above is 'evidence' yet on sub's discussing PG, where other circumstantial evidence is provided, that 'is not evidence' and is 'wild speculation'?
Seeing as the military intelligence school in the UK (DISC) still uses the Russian intelligence and military structure as the basis for much of the education, I'd argue my knowledge is fair to middling.
There is very little either country is capable of doing that the other isn't made aware of extremely quickly. That would include diplomatic cables through embassies, tracking of mobile phones and email accounts, and even secure communications systems, should the need arise. And the US, UK and European countries have far more advanced technology in terms of collection. Russia has brute force, but it isn't subtle in those terms
And you don't think Russia knows that and would adapt if they were trying to blackmail or control someone?
Shit, the general public has known for a long time that future presidents and people in positions of power are put under more scrutiny by intelligence services. I forgot which whistle blower it was that talked about this, maybe Binney or Drake though. Surely Russia would know this and work around it if they intended on controlling the president.
That's not the same line of logic... I'm arguing that Russia isn't going to just let their operations be compromised by something even civilians are aware of. Do you seriously think Russia is unaware of ours and our allies capabilities? Or do you think they're aware and would just not give a shit?
It's exactly the same logic and it's exactly the definition of flipping an asset or double agent. Whatever is being used to blackmail someone can be used by anyone, which is why half of a vetting process is background checks into porn favorites, gambling habits, affairs, sexual deviance etc. If you have a fault, anyone can find it and use it to gain information. Disagree all you want but its true.
I didn't say anything about Russia not being aware. They are very aware and they have very specific programs trying to gather counter electronic intelligence to understand how systems work. But that doesn't give them the system, it gives them a picture of what the system does.
Its getting off topic. Trump is not a Russian asset.
Wow, you again with the same post, so here is my same reply:
From my previous reply: Rather than rebut each of these points individually—and to be clear, many of these points or their significance can be disputed—I'll just say that most of it is based on the assumption that a normal, "right-thinking" person should not want to normalize relations with Russia, and I do not accept that assumption. That assumption is what underlies the implication that all the evidence above is in some way sinister. If you know anything beyond superficial reporting of world affairs, then you know that the US has repeatedly screwed over the Russians since the fall of the Soviet Union. Official US policy and covert meddling by the CIA have repeatedly sought to isolate Russia and undermine its interests. Neocons have been leading the US on a path to conflict with Russia, whether through another CIA-led "regime change" or through outright war. And we're citing McCain, the stooge who supported Svoboda in Ukraine, as a reputable source of information about concerns about Russia?
You know what, let Trump's team talk to Russia, and hope that they can make the real-politic concerns about oil work out, because the conflict with Russia is totally contrived and in the true interests of neither the US nor Russia.
Here is the real reason for the propaganda push against Russia: it is meant to divert attention from the Middle East, and the totally reckless and unethical agenda that has been pursued there for the last several decades by the US government. Did we think it would be okay with the vested interests to just let Russia put a stop to the Saudi-Qatar pipeline through Syria? Of course, so they are doing everything—fabricating lies and spinning the facts like mad—to make sure the massive investment of financial and political capital isn't lost by a change in foreign policy at the top.
If people want to pick on Trump's policies, how about going after him for the ones that actually threaten peace: like the prospect of conflict with Iran or with China? Or you know, keep driving this propaganda train against Russia because you're a bitter Democrat or willing to dance to the CIA's tune.
40 comments
n/a LurkMcGurck 2017-01-28
Welllll this doesn't seem biased at all
n/a aaaaa2222 2017-01-28
If you actually vetted your sources, you would feel ashamed of yourself.
Run this trash in r-politics or some other sub where the sheep will eat up anything that fits their narrative.
n/a kybarnet 2017-01-28
i just got done talking with one of their idiot children.
"Is it your daddy or your mommy issues? Take pills , make you happy! Haha Tummy is Russy, big TV man wonna lie to uz"
n/a Kaarkula 2017-01-28
Great comment!
n/a djklbd 2017-01-28
This guy is just trying to create trump vs anti trump tension/hostility on this sub, he's a shill. Now watch this get 200 comments, all back and forth bitching about whether trump is legit or not....
n/a aaaaa2222 2017-01-28
This will reach the front page of the subreddit and then the comment section will be filled with people accusing t_d of brigading.
Just like the apparent "t_d" brigade that fills the front page every single day with nothing but anti-Trump content and top comments.
n/a SaintMichael 2017-01-28
look at op"s spam history.
n/a kybarnet 2017-01-28
If only there was a way to deal with spammers....
n/a SaintMichael 2017-01-28
expose them
n/a Making_Butts_Hurt 2017-01-28
But that's witch hunting
Fuck reddit.
n/a throwawayhrclinton 2017-01-28
Victoria Nuland. That is all.
n/a Making_Butts_Hurt 2017-01-28
I'll bite.
What crimes have been committed, by who, and why?
Why is Russia bad, and worse than Israel, or Saudi Arabia, or Iran?
Why is helping Russia bad?
Would you mind differentiating your post between substantiated allegations (aka facts) and suspicions (aka baseless accusations)?
n/a How1ntriguing 2017-01-28
Do not let capitalist pigs in on big secret, comrade!
All hail inevitable Master Putin
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Notice how almost all of the comments are attacking OP or his sources (without even saying why they're bad). Common disinformation tactic, sad that it's being used so much lately here.
n/a aaaaa2222 2017-01-28
No.
From a "source" from the very first bullet point:
http://www.businessinsider.com/carter-page-trump-russia-igor-sechin-dossier-2017-1
First sentence:
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Yes, it is an unverified document, not sure what you're getting at...
n/a aaaaa2222 2017-01-28
You.
You.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Well its true, almost all of the comments are attacking the sources.
Yes, it's unverified, no one has disputed that. I feel like I'm arguing with little kids any time the dossier is brought up.
n/a aaaaa2222 2017-01-28
Do you even hear yourself?
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Do you hear yourself? Lol, you're complaining about a document which clearly states it is unverified instead of any of the content posted.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
I am complaining that the OP stated there is "too much proof" and hasn't provided an ounce of that proof.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Maybe try actually reading the post and following the links instead of letting your bias take over.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Maybe try doing that yourself and tell me which part of it is proof, because I did and couldn't find any. Over to you.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Which part? All of it...
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
No, come on, specifically which items in each of those documents do you consider proof. Don't be lazy now.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
You realize this is a large post with many sources that all tie in together, right?
I guess if you can't argue against it the best thing to do is distract from that though.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Yes, as I said I already read them. And as I said, it contains no proof. None. It's circumstantial at best.
But nicely avoided, a polite request to provide your specific justification refused and documented for all to see.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
So you can't argue against anything in the OP? Okay cool just making sure.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Yes I can say it isn't proof its circumstantial. Can't really make it any simpler for you.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Notice how many one month old accounts come out with dross like that statement? Oh look kids, another one!
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
And another one trying to discredit based on post history, you're really convincing people
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Just pointing out a trend which anyone can verify for themselves.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Me too, it's always the same in these topics too. Constantly filled with disinformation tactics whenever anything anti-trump is brought up
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
How is pointing out a fact disinformation? It's a referable fact too if you take the time to look. So, we could just call it 'info'.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Attempting to discredit users based on post history to distract from the content of what they posted.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
No, I am discrediting bullshit posts and the fact they are almost without fail coming from people with 1 month old accounts. Like yours.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
You haven't discredited anything except for yourself, keep trying though.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Does it give you a little erection downvoting? Like a little touch of power in your life away from online gaming or something? Cute.
I have and its there for all to see. You were asked specifically which parts you claim were proof and failed to provide them.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
If you posted about the content in the OP I wouldn't downvote you, but you've yet to do tat.
And you were asked to argue against what OP posted but you havent, I'm not going to waste my time when you haven't even read what OP posted.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
FFS.
I have stated about 4 times now that there is no proof in anything that was posted.
I already stated I had read them.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
You obviously care about the downvotes or else you wouldn't be bringing them up...
I know you've said you read it, I just don't believe you.
So if OP said there is a tremendous amount of circumstancial evidence that points to Trump being compromised would that be better for you? Or would you find something else to complain about instead of trying to argue about the content?
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
If he did, would you then argue against it because in your mind it's solid proof?
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Not gonna answer the question?
And no, I think OP could've had a better title. Something like "I've compiled quite a bit of evidence that leads me to believe Trump is a Russian asset" would be better, but I don't feel the need to argue over semantics while ignoring what was actually posted.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Trump is not a Russian Asset and to assume that was even possible shows a distinct and obvious ignorance towards the intelligence communities capabilities.
Ok, lets discuss a different one then.
Why is it you are so keen to suggest the above is 'evidence' yet on sub's discussing PG, where other circumstantial evidence is provided, that 'is not evidence' and is 'wild speculation'?
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
First statement is just your opinion. To act like this couldn't happen shows your obvious ignorance towards Russia's capabilities.
Why are we discussing pizzagate? Why are you deflecting to that? And well, it is speculation. Weird art, made up code words, that's speculation.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Seeing as the military intelligence school in the UK (DISC) still uses the Russian intelligence and military structure as the basis for much of the education, I'd argue my knowledge is fair to middling.
There is very little either country is capable of doing that the other isn't made aware of extremely quickly. That would include diplomatic cables through embassies, tracking of mobile phones and email accounts, and even secure communications systems, should the need arise. And the US, UK and European countries have far more advanced technology in terms of collection. Russia has brute force, but it isn't subtle in those terms
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
And you don't think Russia knows that and would adapt if they were trying to blackmail or control someone?
Shit, the general public has known for a long time that future presidents and people in positions of power are put under more scrutiny by intelligence services. I forgot which whistle blower it was that talked about this, maybe Binney or Drake though. Surely Russia would know this and work around it if they intended on controlling the president.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
By that logic the US just counter adapts and uses the same blackmail.
Too many eyes, agencies and systems for Trump to be able to breathe without someone watching or listening.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
That's not the same line of logic... I'm arguing that Russia isn't going to just let their operations be compromised by something even civilians are aware of. Do you seriously think Russia is unaware of ours and our allies capabilities? Or do you think they're aware and would just not give a shit?
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
It's exactly the same logic and it's exactly the definition of flipping an asset or double agent. Whatever is being used to blackmail someone can be used by anyone, which is why half of a vetting process is background checks into porn favorites, gambling habits, affairs, sexual deviance etc. If you have a fault, anyone can find it and use it to gain information. Disagree all you want but its true.
I didn't say anything about Russia not being aware. They are very aware and they have very specific programs trying to gather counter electronic intelligence to understand how systems work. But that doesn't give them the system, it gives them a picture of what the system does.
Its getting off topic. Trump is not a Russian asset.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
No its not the same logic lol I understand what you're saying, but it's not at all the same line of logic.
So they'd be aware systems are compromised but still use them? No way they'd have clandestine channels for this thing.
Trump is a Russian asset, keep believing what you want though, your beliefs won't change reality.
n/a II---II_II---II 2017-01-28
Much like your online gaming, fictional reality.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Lol why are you bringing up gaming? Personal attacks all you got? Sad really that's what you've got to resort to.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Lol why are you bringing up gaming? It's sad that you've got to resort to weak as personal attacks.
n/a soberreflection 2017-01-28
Wow, you again with the same post, so here is my same reply:
From my previous reply: Rather than rebut each of these points individually—and to be clear, many of these points or their significance can be disputed—I'll just say that most of it is based on the assumption that a normal, "right-thinking" person should not want to normalize relations with Russia, and I do not accept that assumption. That assumption is what underlies the implication that all the evidence above is in some way sinister. If you know anything beyond superficial reporting of world affairs, then you know that the US has repeatedly screwed over the Russians since the fall of the Soviet Union. Official US policy and covert meddling by the CIA have repeatedly sought to isolate Russia and undermine its interests. Neocons have been leading the US on a path to conflict with Russia, whether through another CIA-led "regime change" or through outright war. And we're citing McCain, the stooge who supported Svoboda in Ukraine, as a reputable source of information about concerns about Russia?
You know what, let Trump's team talk to Russia, and hope that they can make the real-politic concerns about oil work out, because the conflict with Russia is totally contrived and in the true interests of neither the US nor Russia.
Here is the real reason for the propaganda push against Russia: it is meant to divert attention from the Middle East, and the totally reckless and unethical agenda that has been pursued there for the last several decades by the US government. Did we think it would be okay with the vested interests to just let Russia put a stop to the Saudi-Qatar pipeline through Syria? Of course, so they are doing everything—fabricating lies and spinning the facts like mad—to make sure the massive investment of financial and political capital isn't lost by a change in foreign policy at the top.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5itgwp/the_obama_administrations_role_in_the_overthrow/
If people want to pick on Trump's policies, how about going after him for the ones that actually threaten peace: like the prospect of conflict with Iran or with China? Or you know, keep driving this propaganda train against Russia because you're a bitter Democrat or willing to dance to the CIA's tune.
n/a KingJames19 2017-01-28
This is spam
n/a binrobinro 2017-01-28
Meanwhile, he's straightening out this country.
n/a aaaaa2222 2017-01-28
This will reach the front page of the subreddit and then the comment section will be filled with people accusing t_d of brigading.
Just like the apparent "t_d" brigade that fills the front page every single day with nothing but anti-Trump content and top comments.
n/a MartnThaKing 2017-01-28
Do you hear yourself? Lol, you're complaining about a document which clearly states it is unverified instead of any of the content posted.