Good for you. And the conspiracy is?

tptb are still very much in control of our government

Private prisons, big oil, Goldman Sachs, big pharma, anti-pot, cronyism, corporate fascism, etc etc.

sounds like obama

they all got fooled by someone speaking to them at a first grade level

I know, I love it...

and all the while financing and equipping Islamist mercenaries in all of the countries which Israel wants shattered into pieces of resource rich land which it can steal and colonize.

This is a conspiracy sub. If you're going to post anti-Trump stuff, at least do like the guy who talked it up as a stage in an Illuminati plot where Trump's purpose is to engineer consent for the replacement of the government with a dictatorship. That's conspiracy content. Your statement of your personal opinion is not conspiracy content.

Sounds like he is trying to say you cant have open criticism of trump on this sub reddit...

Bingo. Forget him...the majority are coming around, trumpets are now officially a minority in this sub. Keep it up.

You erected a lightning rod. It's thought-terminating, not mind-opening. There's nothing novel in it. You have an opinion. It's as persuasive and suitable for submission as a no-information opinion ever is.

It's a bad submission. There's plenty of threads where this would've been a good comment. Why didn't you use one of those?

I can't use Reddit on my laptop in Russia for the meantime

I knew they were projecting when claiming about Russian Trump conspiracy.

Finally I get to meet the real shill, an Anti Trump guy who is posting from Russia.

👏 fantastic, way to embarrass yourself you phony

Get a VPN on your laptop.

Are you in denial that trump is part of the establishment ? Op is pointing out how he has drifted from his stance as an "outsider" and turning out to be anther globalist shill. Why are you shitting on him for this? Shouldn't you encourage skepticism, this is a conspiracy sub after all...

Fuck trump, he sucks and everyone knows it. Quit pledging allegiance to crooked businessmen and politicians you don't even know. Very amateur and foolish way of thinking...

Don't argue with him, it's like arguing with the 14 year old girls over at /r/hillaryclintom

Lmao, you The_Donald folks picked the absolute worst sub to brigade.

This is always been an anti government/president sub. I have no problem with you guys over at T_D, but if you guys can't critique your own president then you need to get the fuck out and go back to your echo chamber/circlejerk

It's not just TD, shills post that shit here too. Making us look like trump-tards discredits us to lurkers on the left/liberal side. Trying to cut our audience in half.

but that will discredit him in the eyes of some people , lots of different flavors of conspiracy theorist in this sub, some of us don't need the magicical illuminati/nwo/mason/moloch-satan to believe in a conspiracy theory,

So what's your fix?

I think many of the 'people' don't support that shit. Problem is they don't need our support, they just need our money. And they have legislated 218 ways from Sunday to steal the wealth of our earnings legally to fund their nefarious projects.

So that pretty much the problem in a nutshell. What do we do about it?

I've been voting since 1972. Their theft has expanded exponentially in the 45 years since.

What's your next great idea?

Here, have a sign.

I love it - OP wants us to vote, somebody thumbs-downed my reply for admitting I had voted for half a fucking century.

Way to go reddit. Schizophrenia rules.

"Voting" isn't the problem the problem is the elites have constantly engineered elections. The people might vote someone in sure but NONE of the choices they're given are actually bad for the people up top, they'd never allow it. This is just the latest version. We have politicians that are subservient to the bankers and corporations but lie to the people. One day there's gonna be a great man or woman who comes along who has the courage to climb the political ladder not by lying to the people but by lying to the big bankers and corporations.

This^

You got hit by the bots bro

They probably downvoted you for being combative, and for ignoring the second part of his comment

We have the internet now, which has given power to the people. Keep using the internet to spread awareness and keep defending the open internet.

Hahahaha you just said voting

Voting is the problem. Spreading awareness is good too, but if it winds up being used to help convince others that different/certain people in office would make things better, that is another problem /:

Are you aware that a lot of the same neoconservative foreign policy apparatus dating back to at least the GWB administration remained in place under Obama and also strongly preferred Hillary over Trump? Who are the most vocal conservative critics of Trump? The hawkish neoconservative faction.

The fact that neoconservative hawks oppose Trump so strongly is enough for a lot of people to give him a chance. It suggests that the people who support perpetual war and ever-increasing foreign/domestic surveillance are no longer in the driver's seat, and for many people that outweighs Trump's highly publicized flaws.

People like this have no interest in fixing things, just pointing out what isn't 100% perfect, blowing it up out of proportion and complaining about it.

What does that even mean?

If Aaron could see what this site has become, he'd never stop throwing up. Hey, there's something you can complain about: the corporatism and censorship of this site.

Relax man, you're being brigades by shills Because you're attacking trump. The shills don't like seeing anti trump stuff on the front page, because it foils their little plan to brand this sub as a conservative trump hangout, to discredit the conspiracy culture.

We don't want to be associated with him, it's bad for our cause. I agree with your post 100%.

Why are you being to antagonistic? OP has brought up good points, I agree with what he has said. What's your brilliant idea ?

Look at his post history, guy is a clear Trump fan, just another victim of identity politics.

It means that stupid people who don't know anything vote for people like trump and clinton

Abolish the State.

Totally unfeasible. If we "abolish the state" in the US we will just get steamrolled by the Chinese.

Please elaborate.

To abolish the state there'd need to be a collaborated, worldwide revolution against all hierarchy. Without this, militaristic, regimented hierarchies would easily be able to dominate the stateless areas of the world. It's unlikely that you'd be able to convince Islamic fundamentalists or the Chinese to do this.

I was not referring to worldwide stateless. People should be able to live under government rule if they choose to.

Secondly, you are associating a lack of technological progress with a lack of a state. Why is it that you think this?

My point is that states will see a stateless society as a weakness and a chance to dominate.

I never claimed technological advancement is associated with hierarchy.

But that is an interesting side note. who would have access to the nuclear codes in a stateless North America? Who would decide this?

What would a stateless society be missing as to cause others to view it as weak? And you are associating technological advancement with government (consenting hierarchies, like paying workers an agreed upon wage for an agreed upon task, are fine) by saying a stateless society would be easier to conquer, which insinuates a lack of defense technology. Advancement of defensive technology falls under technological advancement.

There would be no nuclear codes because there would be no one person with that power. Unless people think it's a great idea and decide to fund somebody in a position to make that decision, which they wouldn't. If somebody was given that power, that would cause others to want it and would end up fueling the desire of others to gain that power. It'd be another terrific example of how regulation can do the exact opposite of what it's intentions are. Hence the decision to be stateless.

You're making a lot of bold claims with little justification.

I don't buy that. People are capable defending themselves.

Do you really think it's Goverment that keeps us safe from the boogeyman?

I don't buy that. People are capable defending themselves.

Do you really think it's Goverment that keeps us safe from the boogeyman?

Look what happened in the Spanish revolution (pretty much the only example of a successful anarchist revolution in history that wasn't overtaken by totalitarian communists). The revolutionaries immediately got steamrolled by a fascist coalition.

So because of one war one time, no one is capable of resisting a state and therefor must be protected by one?

These are very basic geopolitical principles, and you're doing your argument a disservice by acting this way.

How bout you elaborate on these "basic geopolitical principles" instead of trying to sound like a smarty pants?

Christ. Probably be the average american's response to my comment, that.

I look forward to pillaging your lands.

And I look forward to living the rest of my life without interference from smarty-pants assholes like you.

Yes, because you're protected by a government.

While that sounds very clever, there is nothing to indicate that's true.

I know you're just trying to sound edgy with that "pillaging" comment, but in real life, if you were to try to harm anyone I care about or "pillage my lands" you would get shot.

Why would I personally be on the ground? Let the fatarchists waste their limited ammunition on robots or Canadians.

I'll come down for the fun afterwards, once you're done.

Do you believe this or is it just a creative writing exercise?

Rise up, dissolve your state and let's find out :)

It's the only historical example of what you're advocating. Other revolutions like the one you advocate just ended up making things worse than they were before (USSR).

A stateless society, in my opinion, is impossible regardless. There are too many low IQ and conditioned people who would not know what to do or how to act without someone in authority telling them what to do, and too many high IQ people who would immediately see the overturning of the previous order as a way to manipulate the masses and seize power and wealth for themselves. This might be a symptom of hierarchal structure, but those people are not going to simply disappear once the old authorities are done away with. Animal Farm does a great job of describing this phenomenon.

What am I advocating?

My question is this. Supposing we (in America) had a stateless society. What fascist coalition, self-declared Emirate, or other boogeyman could possibly invade or attack without being fought off by thousands of well-armed Americans?

The Chinese. They outnumber us easily. I don't know how a stateless military would function, (who would be in charge of nuclear codes, drones, etc without some form of hierarchy in place), but I think it's likely that an explicitly hierarchal military would be easier to manage and coordinate than a collectivist one, simply because decisions and orders are made and carried out incredibly more quickly in authoritarian structures than democratic ones. In addition, assuming they still wanted our resources but viewed the population as unable to be subjugated, they'd have incentive to use weapons of mass destruction and just wipe America off the map rather than allow it to continue to exist and in doing so prove statelessness to be a valid option for societies.

This is, of course, assuming that the stateless society would be free of internal problems and power struggles. It'd likely have racial conflicts, religious conflicts, etc. and be incredibly divided and chaotic.

You

pretty much the only example of a successful anarchist revolution in history that wasn't overtaken by totalitarian communists

You forgot the Vietnamese revolution my friend. And no, It was never turn into that totaltalian shit that Stalin turns the USSR to.

All it takes it someone with the right idea to break the damn thing

I agree with you. We can take care of each other .

You seriously think that if China rolled into your neighborhood with tanks and trained soldiers, you'd be able to defend yourselves without an organized army?

Just like the millions of people who have done and will continue to do so.

You seriously think that if the U.S. rolled into Afghanistan with tanks and trained soldiers, they'd be able to defend themselves without an organized army?

Oh wait...16 years of war and counting, and I don't think anyone would consider that war "won". The U.S. has the largest, most well-funded army in the history of the world, and still the Taliban exist and even thrive in some areas. Of course, it didn't help that we trained and armed them in the 1980s when they were known as the Mujahideen, but still; drones, bunker busters, depleted uranium shells, white phosphorus and torture and they STILL haven't quit?

I think we'd do fine defending our homes against the Chinese, or anyone else. Guerilla warfare is and always has been effective against invaders, and we're better armed in America than damn near anyone is.

The Japanese conducted a study on the feasibility of an invasion during WW2 and deemed it impossible.

Wake up. Your Red Dawn fantasies are nonsense.

Would you like to elaborate?

I don't buy that. People are capable defending themselves.

Do you really think it's Goverment that keeps us safe from the boogeyman?

I don't buy that. People are capable defending themselves.

Do you really think it's Goverment that keeps us safe from the boogeyman?

I don't buy that. People are capable defending themselves.

Do you really think it's Goverment that keeps us safe from the boogeyman?

If the state was abolished, how would you spend your life? Living in happiness and pursuing spiritual fulfillment? If yes: Is the state mandating that you spend your Sunday afternoon on reddit, complaining about the nature of the state? Disavowing yourself of the notion that there are individual entities collected under a "state" will bear more fruit than projecting anger outwards towards a philosophical construct. Start the revolution in your heart brother, the rest will follow. In my opinion.

Yes! This mentality is what changes the world. It's what changes ones' understanding of reality and often times leads towards genuine enlightenment. Allegiance to country is nuts, as we've all come to learn, particularly as of late. The only real 'country' one should identify with is one's own literal being. It shouldn't be some legal construct, or anything that exists outside one's own self. That understanding can lead to a powerful ego death. Release the shackles of the mind and become your own country by seeing through the limitations of the illusory self, which seems to have to deeply bought into the idea of an external country being the dictator of one'a experience. But people are awakening, I sense.

I'd be doing many things that today's state find inefficient. Like not paying them money I'm being extorted for under threat of violence. Yep, I guess it turns out I need my state because who would constantly steal from me if they were gone?

Oh well
¯_(ツ)_/¯

Looks like you dropped this ¯\(ツ)/¯ \

Gods, I miss that bot ...

We all do. >_<

Why not? I have the freedom to dictate what I want to do with my body, as long as I don't hurt anybody else. We believe in personal freedom here.

It's funny how politicians like 200 years ago obsessed about Liberty, Sovereignty and Freedom yet we never hear thise words from politicians any more.

I used to be a Libertarian but now I realise Anarchy and Voluntaryism os the only way out of this mess.

Look at semolina if you want no government. We do not live in darwinian natural selection and dog eat dog is not sustainable.

Semonila? Do you mean Somalia?

Somalia is a war-torn region with several militias in there and US and UN intervention happened there not too long ago. It's not comparable to a state run on Anarchist principles, respecting the NAP and private property. I mean to this day the US is still involved in Somalia.

Same people who hold up Venezuela as "proof" that socialism doesn't work.

But they conveniently forget about all the historical context, and the fact that Venezuela is an authoritarian kleptocracy pretending to be socialism.

Do people ever talk about the DRC as a criticism of democratic republics?

Dude, it's always an authoritarian kleptocracy.

"Socialism" is just how you market it to high schoolers and college students.

Looks at North Korea if you like government

I think he means he wants to get rid of rule by a structure. Like each man governs himself society. This is the natural state of man.

It's not really the state that's the problem. It's the people running it.

What makes a state a state?

Can a state exist without the threat of violence on its subjects?

baaaaammmmm!!!

baaaammmm

How about vote out all this scumbags that have been in office for 30 plus years...

"Money makes the mare go" I think Lyndon Johnson said this statement.

The fix is to get local:

Vote for policy not party. Find and support local leaders that are page with what you seek. Support, Support, Support.

Bottom line is to get involved.

There is no way to reform the system within the system.

Not if they keep cutting public edu and stupid people keep saying shit like:

There is no way to reform the system within the system.

Online to distract and deter discussion.

Actually, yes there is. You hijack the party the way the TEA party did. The TEA party was ultra-grass roots, spread through talk radio and the Internet. It was the original anti-Wall Street, anti-government movement before Occupy. The TEA party worked its ass off to primary incumbent politicians and flooded the ranks of the GOP with newbies who wanted to fix DC. Guess what? They were able to shake off the political, media, and deep state establishment to elect a complete political outsider (TRUMP). Don't forget, that was the first time in American history where a person not working in public service found a way to become president. Especially important when everyone in the MSM and political establishment was against him.

Now, I think Trump is a terrible president, but it shows that it is possible. Civilized, organized, incorruptible citizens can change this shit. The TEA party hijacked the GOP in 6 years.

The TEA party, the progressive base, the former middle class, and the independents make up a vast majority of the voting public. We see the government cutting programs for average folk, advocating for a reduction in benefits, and cutting taxes for the rich... The rest of the budget gets shifted to corporate subsidies, the military industry, and the government bureaucracy. Everyone fucking hates this shit except the oligarchs and corporate elite who have all the wealth being siphoned off towards them. This can stop. It wasn't always like this. We can have capitalism and a social safety net. The economy can grow, have competitive free enterprise, and allow reforms to help the common man. We need politicians who aren't sucking the tits of corporate lobbyists and accepting the sweet sweet dark cash of corporate america.

Everyone stops paying taxes and stop supporting the corporations we know don't care about us, like Nestle. Mass protests through taxes would be something they listen to. Your money is what matters to them.

the problem is there's a huge amount of people that support Trump and his administration, let's start with them, educate them on why they are not good for us.

Voat with our dollar. Choose carefully what to spend your money on. It reflects what the people want.

I use English Common Law to defeat every single rule and regulation coming from government, which uses Admiralty Law to steal our money and enslave us. Government cannot touch you or compel you to do a single thing if you refuse to comply with Admiralty Statutes, refuse the legal name and refuse to recognise the jurisdiction of their unlawful enterprise.

I use English Common Law to defeat every single rule and regulation coming from government

Links to your successes?

I saw this freeman crap when I was last in the UK. Please walk us through the process by which it prevents state coercion.

Communism

Not pay taxes. Seriously if every American put thier foot down and stopped paying for fraudulent and corrupt government it would desolve itself and we could start anew. I mean "Taxatio without representation" was the cause for the first revolution.

End the Fed, abolish the government agencies, reformat the government, outlaw political lobbying, term limits for all government aspects, randomly select citizens that are ready willing and able for government positions for one term only, have a nationalized central bank or regional banks on the gold standard, reduce the consolidated Federal power, incorporate some government fusion such as libertarianism and something like a bit of social democracy, direct democracy.

Nobody uses gold standard cos it's shit, random citizens can't do government jobs because they aren't trained for them, the fed is a nationalised central bank, government agencies are crucial for a society to work for everyone not just the rich. Social democracy needs government agencies

Stop the trucks?

We need a general strike.

An I quit day.

we need to effectively come together a populace ans communicate our intent for the future.

We pick a day and just everyone stops participating.

We have enough housing already so all we need to do is overcome social stigma and literally "forget" about traditional society.

Start planting gardens and being self sufficient and then bring in your neighbors to help build a community based on the resources at your disposal.

We just stop working and start SHARING.

I am my Brothers keeper.

Move forward with love, compassion, understanding and always eek to educate through personal conversation.

Stop waving banners.

Stop picking teams.

Go outside and live.

They'll have a really hard time monitoring public conversation if we just go back to town hall type meetings.

That to secure these rights [to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness], governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that, whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute a new government, laying its foundations on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness. - The Constitution of the United States

Millions voted for a guy who promised the end of that age, and now he's just doubling down on all the worst corporate industries. And the defense of this anti-Drain the Swamp reality is "well these people know what they're doing, you can't have any random person handle important matters." My head spins.

Go to North Korea. They don't do any of those things.

Which is just what I said in my first post, you have no interest in fixing things. Criticizing has no value. A hobo on the street can do that.

And they are screwing children. Literally.

No. They really are not.

Ummmm.... YES, they are.

A place like that does not exist in this reality, ever!

Your 2 month old account looks fake. sorry if it isnt but you have to be careful these days with all the shills around

Agreed. No matter who is at the helm. Reagan, bush, Clinton, Obama, or the most recent puppet trump, it's the same fascist corporatocracy and they are fucking parasitic....

Just because Trump is president does not mean he's in power. He's currently fighting the deep state tooth an nail.

Lots of people have been asking for a president to run the country like a business for years. But I think they meant a large and succesful entrepreneurial enterprize, not a heartless and callous global consortium.

They don't realize Trump never ran anything. He made his name off his dad and promoting his name. He's a great promoter, not a CEO.

I'll take a promoter over a subversive, but you aren't wring.

Yeah, turning a few million (or however much) into a multi-billion dollar enterprise is, you know, easy. He totally had nothing to do with it at all.

It doesn't matter that there were thousands and thousands of millionaires back when he got his loan (I recall the number being at least 100,000 millionaires a few decades ago). It's purely luck that caused there to be about 1,000 people in total that are billionaires today (and still thousands and thousands of millionaires). /s

The real estate companies map you he inherited was worth 200 million. Inflation would have taken it to a billion, and it's not even confirmed he has a billion,

The company he was given was worth 200 million. Inflation alone would have turned that into a billion, and it's not even confirmed he has a billion.

That's actually not how inflation works.

You fell for that 'small loan' line? LOL

Vote with your feets in the streets and get organized for a general strike on May 1.

Every Single Day.

So, I'm guessing you hated Obama also, because the things you listed literally describe the last 8 years perfectly

You've claimed before that you live in Russia, so why are all of your posts about American politics?

could be an expat?

Personally, I think they are full of BS and are just trying to push an agenda. He specifically said in one post that he's Russian. In another post, he said that you could look at the time stamps of all of their posts, and you would see that they match Russian time zones. However, a couple of days before that they said:

I've seen a lot of t-shirts at Walmart for kids that have something pizza related and then next to those shirts there are posters of the golden GATE bridge. I'll see if I can go tomorrow and take a picture as proof

They don't have Walmart in Russia. This user's posts raise all sorts of red flags

hmmm, well i dont know.... id need to see the russia statement in context to make sure they weren't just being trollish... i mean they bring up some good points(im one of those people who didn't vote for trump or hilary) but if true, it doesn't help their credebility, ill try to see if i can find it

okay, just saw it, yeah, i dont know what to think, there are still a lot of explanations, i think if they were trying to be sneaky, they wouldn't say they are in russia.. it still sounds like this person is an american citizen, just not in the states right now...

That's a lot of dedication to only post in Russian in working hours by timezone. :(

you could be right, or there could be a number of other possibilites you havent considered... its just counter intuitive to what weve been hearing, i thought the anti trump posters were in the camp of soros and the pro's were from russia =) but like i said i dont dissagree with the points they made is all

I've tagged this guy as a concern troll long ago. You're not the only one.

I've caught him using alt accounts or helpers, to structure and control the comment section narrative of a anti-trump post he made a while back. It was easy to see before the real people got there.

This shit is so obvious a blind man can see it.

I'm not buying it, but luckily you can prove yourself quite easily. Write a few sentences in Russian about this sub and, let's say, David Seaman. Throw in a couple of slang words too. If you can do that, then I'll actually buy that you're a Russian.

His name is literally "russian123" lmao

Obama had begun to move away from private prisons, but Sessions just reversed course.

Yeah, in 2016 he pledge to not renew the contacts of the private prisons that are currently operating. This is called kicking the can down the road, he will obviously not be in office to enforce this empty promise

You were for all those things when the Democrats were doing them.

No I wasn't. You're damn wrong. And if you hate that the democrats were doing them why aren't you angry at trump for doing the same damn things??? You still got trumps cock down your stupid redneck throat.

You still got trumps cock down your stupid redneck throat.

Let's see, homophobia? Check. Racism? Check. Classism? Check.

Stop the hate dude.

Let's see, homophobia? Check. Classism? Check. Racism? Check.

You are kidding right? He told you to stop gargling Trumps balls. Where is any of this other shit coming from?

This is the worst part about Trump supporters (not calling you a supporter) but their automatic response to everything Trump does is "Well Hillary/Obama would have been worse/have done worse!" Hillary and Obama are in the fucking past, they are irrelevant in every sense of the word and we need to stop bringing them up as a defence. Yes they were absolutely terrible presidents. but so is Trump.

The defence that "democrats/Obama/Hillary was doing it" is fucking absurd, just because the school bully is stealing peoples lunch money doesn't mean the new kid should as well. For every good thing Trump does (like dismantle TPP) he does 20 things wrong such as blatantly lie, hire terrible people or do corrupt shit.

Anyone who denies the redpilling effect of the last election cycle is blind or shill. Stop useless whining and complaining what others think / support. Dig more evidence like PizzaGate out. Go go go

In your statements, you make it sound like it's just another run of the mill conservative government. In fact Trump has attacked corporations like Ford for sending manufacturing jobs to Mexico. He has also told pharmaceutical companies that he wants them to lower their prices. I think you just have a collection of 'anarcho-leftist' talking points (propaganda) that you will robotically repeat without bothering to understand how anything actually works. I'm sure there are issues with Trump but you're just a self righteous faker communist patsy.

Agreed. Lots of people putting the cart before the horse.

Yeah you sound like a commie.

No new information, just another anti-Trump ad from russian321 supporting the deep state's coup attempt..

gasp maybe people just don't like government or the president in this sub! How you guys can defend our president is just sad, even if Clinton was president and you defended her I'd still consider that sad so it's not just Trump hate for us.

Trump lied dozens of times during his campaing and blatantly broke his biggest promises within his first few weeks of office, how the fuck can any Trump fan defend this?

I was actually excited for when he said he would 'drain the swamp' and 'take down wall street'. But then he completely betrayed my trust when he hired a cabinet that rivaled Nixon as most corrupt cabinet. Not to mention that three of his personal hires have resigned within the first month for having their Russian ties exposed to the media, and now Trump is banning media that critiques him.

But please tell us why we should be constantly praising our lord and savior D_T rather than constantly critiquing him as we did Obama and Hillary?

Because the bush family, the Clinton family and the Obamas seem to hate Trump so fucking hard it makes you wonder if he stands for the same things they did. But you probably weren't looking for a real answer.

That's a terrible reason to support the man. His words and actions ought to be enough to scare the shit out of anyone who listens to him. He displays no consistency and an obviously remedial understanding of practically every important topic. He speaks like a fifth grader, which is clearly a sign of his thought process and capacity. His entire life has been about puffing himself at the expense of everyone else. What kind of person has either sued or been sued THOUSANDS of times? What kind of businessman can bankrupt a casino?

He has unbelievably thin skin, seemingly reacts to everything on a whim and....he has access to the nuke codes.

The enemy of your enemy is most certainly not your friend here.

LMAO yeah he's just another "failed billionaire." I feel sorry for you for voluntarily guzzling the shit the media is spewing in its final throes of life. I support many of his cabinet picks, his Supreme Court nomination, and his general anti-globalist agenda (in addition to the establishments obvious hatred for him).

Don't pity me amigo. I'm far more sorry to hear about your delusion.

His cabinet picks are the globalists. They profited from it, they will continue to profit from it. How many former Goldman Sachs executives are within the sanctum?

Gorsuch is a fine legal mind...but his predisposition is tilted strongly towards big business (globalists as you call them). His position on the court will always be tainted by the fact he was nominated by Trump after the Senate shirked their duty.

The establishment on both sides can go fuck themselves for the corruption, manipulation and self-dealing. However, for the next century or more, Donald Trump is going to set the bar for corruption. Not surprising since he is Roy Cohn's protege.

I think you're confusing globalism with business sense.

Can you name me one good cabinet pick with a good reason?

He literally hired the same people who backed Hillary and Ted Cruz lmao.

Trump:"I'm going to take down Wall Street!!.....By hiring seven of the most powerful execs and CEO's of Goldman Sachs to run the economic and banking side of the country!"

Devos and Perry because both DoE's need to be destroyed.

You really think Devos was a good pick? Unless you spent your entire life in a privileged private school I seriously cannot take that answer seriously at all, unless you can provide me one valid reason as to why Devos is actually good besides 'public schools are fucked'.

If you just said Perry I probably would have just dropped everything right there and then but god damn Devos?? Are you serious?

I think every parent should have a choice for where to send their children to school. Also a one-size-fits-all approach for an educating an entire fucking country hasn't caused anything but harm. But go on, keep supporting a system that's been failing basically since it's inception.

So someone who hasn't spent a day in that system, or has children who spent a day in that system or someone who has no idea how the system works is gonna fix it? Lmao, what a joke I'm sorry, you're way too optimistic.

But hey, her saying it would be a good idea to cut free school lunches is a great step in the right direction right?! Those kids need to pay up if we're gonna fix our schools!

Why would it require an insider to fix it? Weren't you just complaining about s swamp not being drained?

Betsy has always been an insider lmao, she literally payed for her position and her and her family have donated millions upon millions of dollars to Republicans. If you think that Betsy is some independent, strong willed outsider woman who wants to better the education in this country then you need to research her a bit more.

Is it not a bit odd how not a single teacher or public school is in favor for her? And how every single republican voted for her? Or are the teachers and public schools part of the problem and need to be drained themselves?

I don't think you know what insider means.

Insider:a person who is a member of a group, organization, society, etc.

DeVos is a member of the Republican Party

Devos is married to Dick DeVos, the former CEO of multi-level marketing company Amway.

Since 1982, DeVos has participated in the Michigan Republican Party. She served as a local precinct delegate for the Michigan Republican Party, having been elected for 16 consecutive two-year terms since 1986.[37] She was a Republican National Committeewoman for Michigan between 1992 and 1997,[38] and served as chairwoman of the Michigan Republican Party from 1996 to 2000.[39][40]

DeVos personally raised more than $150,000 for the 2004 Bush re-election campaign,[43] and hosted a Republican fundraiser at her home in October 2008 that was headlined by President George W. Bush.[44] During the Bush Administration she spent two years as the finance chairperson for the National Republican Senatorial Committee and worked closely with the Administration on "various projects."[45] The DeVos family has been active in Republican politics for decades, particularly as donors to candidates and the party, giving more than $17 million to political candidates and committees since 1989.[26][46]

Please research John King Jr and Arne Duncan, the last two sec of educations as well as the previous three before them and you'd find out that they pale in comparison to the amount of political shit that Devos has been through.

Find me one good thing Devos has done so far, or one solid plan that teachers and America can get behind.

Oh wait! Devos's only statement so far has been about how she wants to cut free lunches from school, how inspirational, I'm so glad we got an outsider to finally help out all the poor families struggling to pay the $5 lunches that the school shits out.

"DeVos has never attended, worked in nor sent her children to public schools. She has no government experience and no experience running or managing a bureaucracy or large organization. Instead, DeVos has spent much of her adulthood donating millions to politicians so that she can in turn lobby them to support her favorite pet cause: vouchers that give money to conservative religious schools with zero strings attached.

To those who argue that maybe an outsider’s perspective is what is needed in Washington, that only works when we are talking about a proven leader who has a track record of effectiveness –such as a military general with strategic prowess, a transformational CEO or a superintendent who successfully improved a major school system. DeVos fails to meet these criteria."

If you really think the person who will completely fix the school systems is someone who has never spent a day, or has any idea how the public school system works then you're in for a welcome surprise.

remindme! 900 days

I will be messaging you on 2019-08-16 05:31:58 UTC to remind you of this link.

CLICK THIS LINK to send a PM to also be reminded and to reduce spam.

^{Parent commenter can delete this message to hide from others.}

Also, think i just argued against myself with the whole insider thing, im yurnt mb.

I'd say so lol

Meh, point is I think Devos will be the worse SOE in 30+ years. Guess we can only wait and see.

I also think your right, the school system isn't nearly as good as it could be. But if you think Betsy Devos is the person who will fix it you're delusional and way too optimistic.

So you support our president because some people you hate also hate them? I'm sorry but that's some of the dumbest shit I've read.

"Obama, Clinton, Bush and Nixon all hated Adolf Hitler, it kind of makes you wonder if he's just on the wrong side and he's being bullied" No way am I comparing Trump to Hitler, I'm just pointing out how absurd that argument is

The enemy of the enemy is my friend. And besides, it's not the only reason I support him. For example, I totally support his treatment of the media, I like most of his cabinet picks, and I love his Supreme Court nomination. I'm certainly not in love with Trump the way that you probably are still in love with that war criminal, Obama.

I still think that the whole 'enemy of my enemy is my friend' shit is complete nonsense, if that's the case ISIS, Putin, Hitler and Stalin are all our friends to people who dislike our government.

And you must not be one of those people who were hyped on him taking down Wall Street, or draining the swamp, or whenever he trashed Hillary and Ted Cruz for having Wall street ties because he filled his entire cabinet up with Goldman Sachs execs and CEO's, Steve Bannon, Betsy Devos (I know he personally didn't pick her but Mike Pense and every Repubican did) and the CEO of Exxon. Can you seriously name me one good cabinet pick and a reason why? He literally hired the same people who were backing Hillary so it's not like Hillary would have been any worse/better.

Also I hate Obama and Hillary as much, if not more, than you do so please spare me the lecture. That's the one thing I dislike most about Trump supporters, they back Trump and support him because 'Hillary and Obama would have been worse' or 'Obama was Hitler, at least Trump isn't nearly as bad as Obama'

Shit is so annoying, this is a conspiracy sub and we've always been critical of every politician and president, Trump is no different and he's gone on the record and lied multiple times. I can bring up 20 times he's blatantly lied or stretched the truth during his press conferences so that he can push his agenda and his thoughts.

I'd also say his treatment of the media is seriously dangerous. I know there's a lot of propaganda and shit out there and the media is bad, but do you seriously think the people of the US should get their information from the government and the government only?

Combine the fact that he constantly lies and stretches the truth during his conferences with the combination that he bans any media agency that's critical of him or fact checks him and we have a dangerously misinformed American public. I know the media is bad, save the lecture, but telling the public 'Don't trust the media, only trust me and Breitbart and infowars!'

I hated Obama, but at least he wasn't nearly as thin skinned as Trump and we didn't have him whining on Twitter every day of the week, also I don't like the fact that Trump criticized Obama for golfing constantly and then Trump breaks the record for quickest president to hit the green.

We shouldn't be held back by the fact that some of us voted for him, or if he is better or worse than Hillary or Obama. He's our president now and we should be actively critiquing every breath he takes, just as we did Obama and Hillary. There is literally nothing to be gained by being a fan or defending the president, it will only hold us back as a nation.

HITLER.

The only reason they 'hate' him is because he's cut himself into their(politicians) action. Outside of 'politics' they're all still buddy buddy. Wake up.

Hahaha have you seen Bill lately?! He won't be golfing anytime soon.

All your immediate history is nothing but berating Trump supporters. Maybe you have become emotionally involved and need a break.

Maybe I just hate our president whoever it is??? I did the exact same thing to Hillary, but I'd rather be critiquing out president rather than blatantly following him and praising him all the time like you and others do.

But seriously, don't pull the 'emotionally involved card' with the history that you have. Every single post you have is blatantly and blindly defending Trump.

You even made a post defending Trump linking a youtube video of some guy defending Trump and then you have the balls to say "No new information, just another anti-Trump ad" when you're literally doing the exact same thing buy for pro Trump ads.

You're the same as me and others, except your on the side that's defending the president rather than being critical of him.

Lol awwww are your snowflake tips melting because we painted all TD suckers with the same brush?

I'm glad this sub is starting to oust the massive brigade of pro trump shills. Fuck trump and his puppetry...

I'm glad this sub is starting to oust the massive brigade of pro trump shills.

You have it all figured out after only 1 month, fraud.

Looks like he does have it figured out actually

If that's the case he's got nothing to worry about.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

It will slow down a bit, they left to go watch fanboy Oscar's.

What about me, famalam? Where's my Soros money?

/R/CONSPIRACY IS NOT /R/T_D2, GET THE FUCK OVER IT

If at first you succeed, Bot-bot again, think they'll give you even more ↑ this time.

Sorry, /r/conspiracy isn't just /r/t_d2, not everything that paints Reps in a bad light is a coordinated invasion https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5w55ai/reminder_it_has_been_2866_days_since_sean_hannity/de7klrs/?context=3

You think because I said the same thing twice to two different people, I'm a bot?

Absolutely fucking delusional. Must be nice to have a built-in biological safe space.

You have only posted here 12 times with the same MO, you hate this place, you only offer discontent, your post show it.

You're absolutely right, I do hate this place. Because I fucking love conspiracies, and seeing the same anti-authority ideals conveniently never applied to the right is pretty frustrating and indicative that no one here really gives a shit about conspiracies, only party politics. If I wanted to read only that, I'd go read that. Not "OMG Democrat-X knows Epstein what a fucking perv!... Well yeah Trump also knows Epstein but I mean come on that means nothing."

You know what I'm saying? I love conspiracies. I love political conspiracies. But when it's 95% titled against one side, it's just fucking obvious what this place has become, filled with driveling idiots who somehow can't get their posts upvoted among memes on other right-leaning subs.

Please by all means, show me just one conspiracy forum out there that is any different than this one. (hint, you can't)

every conspiracy forum is like this, so you can't also be dissatisfied with this place

Glad to know you have no interest in meeting me halfway and trying to empathize/ engage with what I'm saying whatsoever. Have fun bucko.

First, you've gotta admit that he is either not a bot, or that's some of the best damn programming you've ever seen.

I know exactly what it is.

When I first came to this sub, I was looking for funny people who believe in aliens. What I saw was just politics... but at least they were undermining people in power, or who they thought was in power. There was some integrity, even if I didn't agree with everything they posted.

Now what I see on r/conspiracy? People praising the government and supporting its blatant lies. The shit they make up to rile up common people against imaginary enemies of the state. You know, the exact thing conspiracy theorists are supposed to fight. And they're eating it all up. That, or actual paid shills have taken over.

I don't know which possibility is worse. That the conspiracy theorists got fooled by the very thing they claimed they fought... or that they lost their own sub to the shills they fought.

unfortunately it is the latter

It's a bit of both. Shills wouldn't shill if it didn't work, and there are definitely users here who are parroting the pro-President narrative that's been building here over the past year.

The mods of conspiracy and t_d are the same people and part of the same Trump 2020 superpac.

Ironic, isn't it? Very Orwellian.

To be fair, your account is literally only a month old. Either you're a shill, you're using a new username because of shit you said on the last one, or you're generally part of the huge influx of morons that came here for anti-trump election bullshit.

I don't have any love for Trump but I'm definitely not gonna trust someone who has been here fucking 30 days with what the direction of this sub, was, is or should be.

Or you could judge the message by the content and not strictly by the age of the account. It's been established that aged accounts are bought and sold so the age of the account is literally meaningless.

If you've been here a month, you have literally no investment int the community. It's not specifically about being a shill. It's about the fact that you can't jump in fifteen minutes ago and comment on the current state of a sub thats been around nearly a decade.

I create new accounts every year or so. Been on here for many years. The point is you can't judge a book by it's cover account age is not a useful indicator of anything.

Not to mention that if someone you know finds out your reddit account (ex. boss, family), your anonymity is compromised. People make new accounts when stuff like that happens.

Exactly I started doing it every year as a matter of course. That way if the account is ever compromised the scope is limited rather than years and years of shit being on there.

That's not an extremely realistic outcome and most people on reddit aren't being found out irl. Definitely not a common occurrence.

Creating one new account a year has no cost at all and provides a tangible benefit in my peace of mind. Cost benefit analysis says to do it under the circumstances.

That's a really, really naive statement. It means a lot. That is the entire point of having accounts so you can be attached to a great number of things, one of which is the bs you've said in the past. I can only assume you have spouted nonsense and been called out and been banned from subs for breaking the rules and then you go and make a new account. The mass majority of long time redditors have maybe 1 or 2 accounts. The cover of your book is a reason to judge you in, and of itself. Sorry.

It sounds like you've got more than enough assumptions than you know what to do with. I'm a netsec professional and security is just prioritized in my life. I value my privacy and anonymity. I am not a rulebreaker I'm just paranoid which is why I'm on this sub. I practive what I preach, creating an account every year is a trivial practice and it buys a nontrivial amount of OpSec.

If you consider "you can't judge a book by it's cover" a really naive philosophy I'm not sure what to tell you.

One month account brigade that all have excessive upvote #'s, all based on just a comment?

And some people like me have changed accounts a few times over the years.

Age ain't nuttin but a numba!

You are MAD. ProTrump shills? Do yourself a favor and notice how often pro Hillary threads get gilded.. notice which sub they come from, the subs subscriber count and how many upvotes it had as soon as it hit the front page. 95% of the time, those threads have 10x the upvotes of the total subscriber base of that particular sub. Open your fucking eyes, you guys are so blind and ignorant it's sad.

Inb4 'paid shill'

This board is very obviously being manipulated by pro Hillary shills if anything, the trump fans struggle to compete with all the shady tactics. Do a search for Reddit manipulation.. the truth is out there and your idea of it is far from accurate.

It's both. There's a shill war happening, and Reddit is one of many battlegrounds.

Same here! It was an organized spill-over from r/the_donald. I never could wrap my head around how conspiracy-minded people were finding "hope" in a billionaire, cutthroat real estate mogul, monster, turned trash TV actor, who is friends with the Saudi royal family and the Clintons. Trump has done everything to prove he is pro-corporate-establishment since day 1.

And it doesn't matter which fake political group is in power at the time. The core issues never change. Those "running" the country are only protecting and benefiting corporations under the guise of national security.

ONLY 5% of prisoners are in private prisons. This is a misdirection of the problem. The real problem is we live in a police state with overly harsh mandatory sentencing rules, lack of rehabilitation programs, and a futile drug war. Half the prisoners are in on drug charges. End the drug war and that is half the problem solved right there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDjISR5OHa4 (There is an alternative)

They also receive almost no rehabilitation, which would seem to be the reason we put them in prison. My neighbor's son is getting out after 14 years this week. He spent the last 2 months learning how to live in society. What are odds he's not going back.

If the politicians want private prisons, then pay these shave corporations for people who get out and don't go back, not for how many people we put there.

That's actually a subsidy I think I could support

All prisons are private prisons. Every prison in the USA is privatized to a degree. Aramark is the big one, providing food and uniforms to prisons all over the US, but beyond food and uniforms is probably a million other things.

Wow too bad the Trump administration both wants to expand the use of private prisons AND heighten the drug war.

Try putting your fingers in your ears. I hear that helps block out more of reality. If that doesn't work, I have seen others having success with closing their eyes and saying "lalalalala".

Lol sounds like the government I've seen my whole life

No, everythibg was fine until Trump became president 2 months ago. /s

Glad people are waking up, but my fear is once Trump is gone people will forget how messed up everything is with or without him.

You mean one month?

We were very close in 2008 and 2012.

Well it is by definition a corporation, am I right? Absolutely.

Well thank god obama is finally out!

"Still better than the pedophile cannibals!" -- Rest of the World

Maybe you should've voted Hillary, right?

This country is a corporation...

Thank you for making sense. Unfortunately there are too many brainwashed dumbasses in T_D that refuse to see what is happening.

This is going to be a shitty ride. Iran is already in the gov sights after announcing the change to petroeuro so things are going to get worse soon.

Literally the only thing Trump has is the people,and he has to start showing results(Not his own benchmarks),or he's gonna find himself on "The wrong end of the barrel",so to speak.

You are talking like this is all new. Trump has like 3 jobs, arrest the Clinton cartel (pg), build a wall, and set term limits. Other then that it's business as usual.

Weed will never be legal in the federal level because of the money going to private prisons, police shakedowns, and big pharma.

Banks own the debt so they aren't going anywhere for the next 200 years, if we stop spending today.

Trump has always stated he is in favor of pipelines.

There is no such thing as a perfect government. Just be thankful the DC pedophile ring isn't in charge right now, or we would be at war with russia/china/india just to cover up industrialized child sex trafficking.

Can you hold your breath for 2 years?

No, neither can I.

There are ways to resist Trump's changes. In the courts, in the political system, locally, in the states.

When you've figured out the root of all your listed problems we'd be happy to see you at r/socialism

Yeah, the solution to government theft is more government theft. Right.

I'm with you, brother. Even just declaring where you stand is helpful. It lets the others know they're not alone. The fix is the coming revolution. The form that'll take or what lies beyond it is anyone's guess.

Many of the reasons it blows my mind when people start spouting Trump nonsense, or just "Trump!". Mindless dipshits.

You're right.

Unfortunately, the alternative is Satana Apocalypse, so let's stand firm with the billionaires.

Relevant username

Almost every post you've made is anti trump, this has nothing to do with conspiracy theories, and to be quite frank pointless for this sub. Go to a sub that talks about politics or something.

Like... This one?

Better than pro pedophilia, pro deep state, pro pay for play, pro governmental corruption, pro rigged elections, pro illegal immigration, pro immorality, pro war, etc etc

Cool conspiracy bro

Why do you people have to inject partisan reupblican/deomcrat arguments into everything?

Public schooling

"History's richest cabinet"

Every adminstration has had the rochest cabinet in history then, according to you. Not only is that false, but not every admin has had a richer cabinet than the precious ome either. The last point in your title was clearly a partisan attack on Trump

So as I said, this is an anti-trump thread

But you are complaining about something Trump did on his own; and it doesn't relate to the government. Yeah, he's friends with rich people. Why do you care if they're rich? Capitalism is the problem, not rich people

What, you think that capitalism is good?

There are going to be rich people with or without capitalism, almost all economic systems allow for rich people to become rich

Hillary lost, dude.

This country is a corporation, literally. The U.S. Code defines "the United States" as a corporation.

You are completely missing the point-- the Trump admin is opposed by something much worse than it. Period. To use you rhetorical flourish.

All these fake outrage posts will continue to fall flat, because the difference between a minimally sincere administration in Trump and the criminal phoniness it replacing, and hopefully overcoming, is increasingly obvious.

Yes let's quibble over the phantom secret government while the real government is actually becoming a tyrannical oligarchy. Idiots. I'm going to worry about whether the great filter will kill me or not while I keep smoking this cigar. Since that's how reddit likes her logic.

America is getting what it deserves. Its going to take a lot more than voting or hoping between two monsters offered up by the dregs to fix decades and decades of propaganda, lies, and tyranny.

Inaccurate username

/s

Me neither:

• Goldman Sachs is (among a few other) responsable of the last words economic crisis and will be responsable of the next one.

• Oil companies manipulate the government from stop advancing into clean enegies and a substitute of plastics.

• Big pharmaceutics stop researchers from publishing new medicines that may cure a lot of people. They even maybe develop new diseases that they spread so the can later sell a drug that cures it.

I really hope that you did your research in hillary as 'extensively' as you've seemed to do on Trump (cough.. not). If you are against corruption the Hillary office is NOT who you want to lead the country.. Btw Trump has stated many times he is 100% not against marijuana and that the decision should be left to the states.

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/320902-white-house-hints-at-crackdown-on-recreational-marijuana?amp

Since when is 'hinting' undisputed proof that an administration will ban?..

i am proudly not in a camp. i have seen the "light". Yes, disinformation runs rampant. Knowing that, it was a potentially weak argument to your statement. Either way, the previous administration was blatantly enforcing federal ban and disrupting, presumably, legitimate businesses. There is no reason the Trump administration would not do the same or even escalate federal enforcement; contrary to the idea of making government influence smaller.

WHO promoted Hillary here? No one. Not one poster. Anti- Trump does not equal pro-Hillary. I really wonder how many Trump supporters actually just oppose Hillary and have no fucking idea that Trump and Hillary both suck. This is not your sub. You are lost. Just type T_D and you will find your safe space.

So you think government prisons are okay?

I am afraid that for me it is more simple than this, I will not support a government who's primary agenda is to focus it's social upward mobility to every other country in the world at the expense of the people who they've been elected to represent.

You had me until 'anti-cannabis'. You just dropped your argument to the single-issue-zealot category, right next to BLM, abortion and Two-China fanatics.

Everything about russian321 screams angry democrat from Connecticut.

Where was all your outrage 6 months ago? Fuck off you simple minded bandwagin jumper. oh Steven Colbert is on line one, he says your walnut and hotdog pizza is ready.

6 months ago we didn't have Exxon and Goldman running our government so blatantly. Corporate Democrats at least were sneaky about it. Trump is a sell out.

Corporate Democrats at least were sneaky about it. Trump is a sell out.

I'd rather have politicians lie than be open about what they are doing!

I rather have NO FUCKING SELL OUTS, and a government that prioritizes its citizens over making money for themselves. No Trump Tea Party assholes, and no corrupt old order corporate Democrats.

Trump represents a completely different group than the Tea Party.

Is everything so black and white to you? It's a very narrow minded view of the world don't you think?

Tell me who the fuck Bannon represents, and I will tell you what Trump represents. Bannon is the Tea Party with a Goldman Sachs twist.

Can you tell me ONE platform that Trump is pushing, which the Tea Party hasn't been harping on? Trump absolutely relied on the individualist moralist bullshit pushed by the Tea Party since 2009. With the whole Birther shit he copied and promoted, he WAS the Tea Party. Only the Tea Party was nationalist enough to embrace the xenophobia that Trump and Bannon pushed.

In 2017, the United States of America is being run by the Tea Party, with a loose cannon at the helm (since the brand was shit, now they call it "alt-right"). It will not last, because Millenials (the future of America) can see through their bigoted authoritarian crap.

xenophobia

Do you even know what that word means?

You sound like a fanatic anti-American globalist.

xen·o·pho·bi·a ˌzenəˈfōbēə,ˌzēnəˈfōbēə/

noun

intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries.

I'm intensely pro-American, but PRO an America that is inclusive, just, fair, promotes community, promotes working with a good uncorrupted government, and one that looks to a future of more equality and team work. I am intensely AGAINST a nation built on fear of foreigners, individualistic "fuck you I got mine" attitudes of the past, being run to the ground by fascist (read: corporate) demagogues abusing people's misinformed insecurities, and against the disintegration of structures that promote social justice.

sounds like Breitbart and Fox News...

No it doesn't sound like either of them.

I'm intensely pro-American, but PRO an America that is

So you aren't pro-America at all, you are pro-yourself and your own vision of some sort of globalist imperialism.

That is NOT the direction young people in this country want.

You don't speak for the young people of America.

fascist (read: corporate)

You don't know what fascist is and don't have a fucking clue about "corporate" anything apparently.

You sound like you've been reading too much Huffington Post frankly.

No it doesn't sound like either of them.

Haha didn't Fox News get caught just the other day faking a foreign officer to scare you about the dangers of foreign people. Don't be a docile apologist for Xenophobia. At least recognize when it is in front of you.

So you aren't pro-America at all, you are pro-yourself and your own vision of some sort of globalist imperialism.

Don't attribute the corruption of the Soros Corporate Democrats of the past, to what the young progressives want to accomplish. It is NOT to sell us down the river to China. It IS about promoting a fair economy and a fair justice system for ALL Americans, away from the avarice of for-profit corporations that run our government.

You don't know what fascist is and don't have a fucking clue about "corporate" anything apparently.

Does this sound like the Trump administration to you?

Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[7] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[7] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature, and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[8][9][10][11] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[12]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

dangers of foreign people.

No. They were talking about a specific group of people, not "foreign people" in general.

Do you believe that people from other countries are naturally superior to people of your own country?

Besides - are you Swedish? If so - guess what - to a Swedish person - YOU ARE FOREIGN. Was FOX talking about you? Doubtful.

Does this sound like the Trump administration to you?

No, it doesn't sound like the Trump administration at all.

No. They were talking about a specific group of people, not "foreign people" in general.

You are correct. Not white foreigners, only brown Mexicans, brown Muslims, black Africans, etc. Racist-based xenophobia.

Do you believe that people from other countries are naturally superior to people of your own country?

I judge human beings by their actions. A racist American-born white terrorist like Robert Doggart is infinitely worse than a Mexican trying to work in an orange farm to provide for his family. Would you disagree?

No, it doesn't sound like the Trump administration at all.

Your servile un-American ignorance of history is dangerous.

only brown Mexican

You really think that all Mexicans are "brown?"

Why are you making this about skin color? It's not about skin color. You really need to work on that racism.

Oh I'm sorry... it seems like all the Mexicans I see on Fox News "destroying America" just happened to be brown. Don't run away from this fact. Own it if you want to dig in to defend xenophobia.

Oh stop pretending - you don't even watch FOX news.

I actually do. It is best to keep your adversaries close, so you can see yourself what the Trump regime's propaganda flavor of the day is.

As a Bernie supporter, I also watched the mountains of bullshit peddled by CNN/MSNBC/NYT/WaPo/other corporate media shops to push for their Queen Hillary, and to placate Bernie. It was grotesque. We should all be critically thinking about what BOTH sides are pushing.

Are you capable of looking at Sanders objectively, or is he sort of a cult figure to you?

Are you able to look at your own political ideology and find any weaknesses in it, or are you absolutely sure you are always 100% correct about every issue?

Are you capable of looking at Sanders objectively, or is he sort of a cult figure to you?

Sure thing! Expanding social programs and benefits is unsustainable, but his solution to that is that the wealthy top 1% should no longer command and own the majority of the income/wealth going forward. If we realize that as country we are spending $$ TRILLIONS in government subsidies PER YEAR to corporations, and BILLIONS in over-expensive mediocre health care (that only boost wealth at the top)... perhaps some of that money can be used for education, cheaper/better health care, programs that help poor people regain agency over their lives after being crushed by the system, etc. etc. etc. Some of the criticisms lobbied against Sanders are some outdated red scare threats that we would turn into the next Venezuela... This is patently shortsighted, as all Bernie was asking is that we prioritize the government to serve education, life, justice, equality, and fairness VERSUS individualistic corporate interests that are tearing this country apart.

Are you able to look at your own political ideology and find any weaknesses in it, or are you absolutely sure you are always 100% correct about every issue?

It is NOT correct on every issue. Our government entitlements and spending are unsustainable on a purely mathematical basis, but the solution is NOT to destroy government (so that corporations can run shit instead... which is what the GOP wants to do). Promoting victimhood versus personal accountability is not ALWAYS the answer, but the opposite side claiming that all is fine and dandy and that actual victims should "stop complaining" is regressive anti-human bullshit (and out of touch with the realities of those victims).

In the end, the left and the right can join together against the corrupt old order that fucked us all (except those at the top). Trump is just another corporate tool, and we should all see that clearly by now, after his first month. It is a worker versus oligarch battle, but the Tea Party has been successful in turning this into a Culture War of whites against "evil foreigners". This is why so many people on the left are quick to compare this to what happened in Germany throughout the 1930's.

What would you replace "corporations" with?

Can you explain why you believe "corporations" are the problem?

I would replace "corporations" with small local businesses. A bottom up approach, versus the utterly fucking failed philosophy that hopefully those at the top will let their wealth/income trickle down to their workers. Trump voters are seriously STILL counting on this? They were not invited to Mar-a-Lago as far as I know.

Can you explain why you believe "corporations" are the problem?

Can corporations buy politicians? can corporations write their own rules to destroy competition? can corporations demand bail-outs (from tax payers) when they make bad bets? Can corporations collude among themselves to make health care, tuition, housing, etc. utterly expensive for the middle class? can corporations get away with actual crimes, because the greased the right hands in government? can corporations ask politicians to give them government contracts for $300,000 pilot helmets on the backs of tax payers? Can corporations ship your job overseas, park their cash overseas, and still CRUSH the negotiating power of their workers at home? Do you think any of these trends of the last 40 years are good?

What privileges have YOU enjoyed from as an ordinary American voter (assuming you are not able to pay a few $ mil to your local friendly politician)?

I would replace "corporations" with small local businesses.

Small local businesses ARE "corporations."

And how will you have anything larger than a shop if everything is supposed to be "small?" How will you have major construction, or oil rigs, or ocean going vessels, or semiconductor fabs, or high tech manufacturing?

Can corporations

Actually - no, none of those things. Corporations aren't allowed to donate to political candidates, and all those things are done by government officials, not corporations.

And how will you have anything larger than a shop if everything is supposed to be "small?" How will you have major construction, or oil rigs, or ocean going vessels, or semiconductor fabs, or high tech manufacturing?

Fine... let me be MORE specific. Government should not promote corporate cartels and oligopolies, that stand AGAINST the idea of competitive free markets. They have been picking winners and losers for decades, and we are all worse for it. They have crushed small businesses with regulations, fees, taxes, etc. so the middle class has been crushed. Make no mistake... when Trump says cut regulations, he meant cutting Dodd-Frank for his banker buddies, or cutting the EPA for his Big Oil buddies.

Actually - no, none of those things. Corporations aren't allowed to donate to political candidates, and all those things are done by government officials, not corporations.

Don't be ignorant (and yes, government officials are the paid-for puppets of said corporations). If you want to be granular about it, by corporations I mean the sociopathic owners of corporate cartels (who can't seem to accumulate enough wealth and resources for themselves).

Besides, are you disagreeing with Trump that there was corruption in Washington, DC, hence the need to "Drain the Swamp"?

by corporations I mean the sociopathic owners of corporate cartels

Your ideas seem extremely confused. First you seem to complain about the structures of corporate bureaucracies and now you claim to be making some point about the psychology of specific people.

Really that is a lot of the reason Bernie Sanders never made much headway - his ideas were confused and contradictory and his fans came across as being cult-like and just as confused as the old guy.

Your ideas seem extremely confused. First you seem to complain about the structures of corporate bureaucracies and now you claim to be making some point about the psychology of specific people.

That you are being lazy in your critical thinking is perhaps what is confusing to you. The fact that some humans can prioritize profits over human life (see pharmaceutical cartels, for example) is a prime example of a sociopath. Hell, if you even stopped for a second to think that perhaps there is some level of truth to that, you will soon find actual studies telling you that 1 in 5 corporate CEOs actually fall in the spectrum of a psychopath. It takes a certain kind a person to want power over others, purely for the sake of power. Do you disagree?

Really that is a lot of the reason Bernie Sanders never made much headway - his ideas were confused and contradictory and his fans came across as being cult-like and just as confused as the old guy.

Reality is that you didn't bother to look at someone like Bernie objectively, because you are too entrenched in your own side. Ideas seem confused, because you are not following along with a critical thinking lens.

Trying to project your own incoherent ideas on to me isn't going to work. I was familiar with Bernie Sanders long before he ran for President and I'm quite familiar with his "movement."

Frankly I don't think you really understand how "corporations" work - it seems to be a catch-all term and you are unsure whether the problem is how they are legally structured, if they are simply too large in some cases to be accountable to other social institutions, or if they are just run by "evil people."

The laziness is coming from you - I don't think you have ever even contemplated the issue of corporate governance. Are you even familiar with the field? Have you ever read much about management theory, for example?

you didn't bother to look at someone like Bernie objectively,

That is you projecting again.

Also you may be interested to note that sociopathy occurs at all levels of society. While corporate CEOs may be sociopathic - so are many street level criminals. So again, you don't seem to really understand the underlying issues here.

Frankly I don't think you really understand how "corporations" work - it seems to be a catch-all term and you are unsure whether the problem is how they are legally structured, if they are simply too large in some cases to be accountable to other social institutions, or if they are just run by "evil people."

Why are you trying to argue semantics of what I mean by corporation, while ignoring the regulatory capture and corruption of government, which IS the actual issue (that I hope not even you can deny)? Do you know where I draw the line? it's not in size... it's in corporate cartels being able to write/draft the laws like the ACA to make health care costs even worse for us, for mediocre health care, just because they wanted more profits.

Which camp are you on? the camp that says that corporations should be able to say "you are sick, poor, and can't afford our services? better luck next time!"?

Um, that isn't "semantics" - that's substance.

it's in corporate cartels being able to write/draft the laws like the ACA

That isn't a problem with corporations - that's a problem with legislators. Again, I'm not sure you've even thought this through.

Which camp are you on? the camp that says that corporations should be able to say "you are sick, poor, and can't afford our services? better luck next time!"?

I'm hungry. Give me money to buy lunch.

What are you going to say I can't afford it, better luck next time?

Ok, make me lunch. No, I can't afford to pay you, but why shouldn't you make me lunch?

Again, the reason Sanders lost is because his ideas are incoherent and his fan base comes across as cult-like.

That isn't a problem with corporations - that's a problem with legislators. Again, I'm not sure you've even thought this through.

Is it possible that the problem is BOTH people that want to actively fuck over others for private gain, AND those who facilitate it in government? Is that truly baffling to you? I know Ayn Rand likely told you that it is in their god-given free market right for corporate owners to want to fuck over other humans for private gain... but is it ultimately what is best for humanity? the crushing wealth inequality in America says NO... have you thought this through?

I'm hungry. Give me money to buy lunch.

That's where you are obtuse and damn wrong about oppressed groups in America. If you actually listen to them, they will tell you "I'm hungry. Give me a JOB so that I can make money and buy lunch". Just like you have psychopaths at the top and the bottom, you also have free-loading leeches at the top and the bottom. You are arguing that not all corporate CEOs are psychopaths (I agree), but can you admit the same about beneficiaries of welfare? Do you have it in you?

Ok, make me lunch. No, I can't afford to pay you, but why shouldn't you make me lunch?

Well first...

"...the moral test of government is how that government treats those who are in the dawn of life, the children; those who are in the twilight of life, the elderly; those who are in the shadows of life; the sick, the needy and the handicapped. " ~ Last Speech of Hubert H. Humphrey

... and second... you can give a hungry man some fish, AND teach him how to fish so that he doesn't go hungry again... but leave it to the fucking GOP to ignore that last education piece. When was the last push from the GOP to teach minorities how to fish? (only if they can actually afford to go to the better schools right? what is a good one running at these days? $1,000 per kid per month?). Are you in the camp that thinks corporations should also be able to charge for teaching the sick and the poor how to fish?

I know Ayn Rand likely told you that

You are SUCH a hilarious stereotype. You are, yourself, extremely narrow-minded, cult like, yet project that onto OTHER people.

I can't stand Rand and I'm no fan of hers. I've never said anything in this conversation that is even close to Randianism, or even mild libertarianism.

But since all you have is a communist hammer, everything looks like a capitalist nail.

You are the reason why Sanders lost.

By the way - no one is stopping you from fishing. But I'm guessing you've never actually caught a fish in your life have you?

When was the last push from the GOP to teach minorities how to fish?

BWA ha ha lol. As if only Rich White People know how to fish. Poor darkies just can't do anything fo' demselfs without da white man teaching 'em.

You are a hilarious stereotype, by the way.

You are SUCH a hilarious stereotype. You are, yourself, extremely narrow-minded, cult like, yet project that onto OTHER people.

I'm speaking about the Paul Ryans and the Trumps of the world who are ignorant puppets hoping corporations given free reign is the end-all-be-all solution to the world. They are well compensated for pushing that. Sanders may have lost with the out-of-touch +55 year olds that backed Hillary, but he won OVERWHELMINGLY among those with most at stake (voters under 30). Hell he was even winning against Trump in a head to head up until November 6, 2016.. Let me guess... "alternative facts" right?

By the way - no one is stopping you from fishing. But I'm guessing you've never actually caught a fish in your life have you?

Republicans gutting public funding for schools in poor black neighborhoods are stopping them from fishing. Police racially profiling blacks and a justice system biased against blacks, latinos, and women in MANY states are stopping MANY from fishing. The costs of government subsidized health care, housing, child care, etc. are stopping MANY from fishing. Up until not long ago, segments of our population weren't even invited to the fishing pond. If one oligarch is taking 95% of the fishes, perhaps the issue is that there aren't enough fishes to go around for the other 9 hungry people? But you see that as the natural order of things I assume... right? Fuck those 9 hungry people for not being tenacious enough to buy the pond right?

No one is stopping black people from having prosperity and peace? many will disagree with you in the face of racial profiling across economics and justice. No one is stopping women from raising through the ranks or having authority over their bodies? many will disagree with you in the face of ass-backwards religious bigots yearning for the times when women were happy staying at home serving their husbands. Do you catch my drift? Just because your skin color (I'm guessing white at this point) or economic conditions has allowed you to freely fish in any pond you have wanted, DOES NOT mean your same level of privileges apply to others. It's baffling that white people can't spend a minute trying to put themselves in the shoes of a poor black boy born in a depressed area. Since you know how to fish so well, would you like to volunteer to go try and fish your way to prosperity as a young black in a black neighborhood in Alabama?

tl;dr RACISTFASCISTKKKDRUMPF!

Yeah you seem to have been running out of arguments a while ago. It's cool. I had a good time, hope you did as well.

the young progressives

You mean like the Young Communist League? Because Communists have often called themselves "progressives."

Are you a communist?

LOL are you using the dumb propaganda trick of blurting terms around in the hopes that it sticks? Do you want to rile up your ignorant fellow alt-right because you are throwing that word around? Are you all hoping it sticks so that you can try to de-legitimize the growing popularity of progressive Democrats? Have you thought out what policies you want to term "communist"? Can you give us all some examples? or is it just an empty throwing up of words in order to bring back the 1950's red scare?

the growing popularity of progressive Democrats?

LOL - you mean the ones that just lost a Presidential election, both houses of Congress, are about to lose the Supreme Court, and have so few state legislatures that the GOP is one state away from being able to hold a freaking Constitutional Convention?

You are angry because you've been told all your life that you are the "good guy" and on the "right side of history."

But the reality is your "young progressives" are just dupes of some very vicious totalitarian communists, and you're being swept away.

So you are experiencing "cognitive dissonance."

I know, it's hard. I understand your confusion. But you might want to take a hard look at yourself and figure out where all that anger is really coming from.

LOL - you mean the ones that just lost a Presidential election, both houses of Congress, are about to lose the Supreme Court, and have so few state legislatures that the GOP is one state away from being able to hold a freaking Constitutional Convention?

2016 was an indictment on the old corrupt status quo, which was able to placate the Bernie Progressive movement (even though we are taking over at the grass-roots level). No young progressive (sided with Bernie in 80-20 margins) wants the return of the old corrupt status quo.

You are angry because you've been told all your life that you are the "good guy" and on the "right side of history."

History says that mistreating and race-baiting against minorities is WRONG. Show me otherwise. History says that propping up those who have been ignored/beaten/impoverished is GOOD. Show me otherwise. History says that an ultra-nationalist and isolationist future of "fuck you, I got mine!" or "Fuck you, the X country of the past was THE GREAT NATION" brings chaos and destruction with very little long-term benefits. Show me otherwise.

You sounds really confused and have this bizarre notion that "history" is some moral force. It's not. "History" is just "things that happened."

The fact is you are full of hatred and extremism and it's causing you to spew some really vitriolic bile.

I'd work on that if were you.

You sounds really confused and have this bizarre notion that "history" is some moral force. It's not. "History" is just "things that happened."

You are correct... "things that happened" included slavery for black people, and it was WRONG! "things that happened" included women not having any voice in our society, and it was WRONG! Those things, among many others, were CORRECTED (not reinforced). "Things that happened" include docile and servile people falling behind a "strong" nationalistic demagogue, duped by fears of Jews and foreigners into committing genocide as a nation, and it was WRONG!. We as America stepped in to correct all of those, and we will have to step in once again to right the ship towards a future that is good for humanity (not just your less-informed side).

The fact is you are full of hatred and extremism and it's causing you to spew some really vitriolic bile.

Well good for you taking such a courageous stand against slavery. It really takes a lot of guts to be against enslaving black people in 2017, what with the Ku Klux Klan running ever level of government and black people literally being lynched on a daily basis.

You are truly a brave, brave person to take such a strong stand against slavery.

You are truly a brave, brave person to take such a strong stand against slavery.

I'm more focused on modern day slavery against Blacks and Latinos in corporate private prisons in America, but sure! I appreciate the compliments.

So you are cool with Asians and Whites being in prison?

Why are you so focused on skin color?

Not cool with any one group being prejudiced against, but it seems like an incredible amount of States still remain intensely prejudicial on Blacks and Latinos. Just so we are clear, are you in the camp that thinks black and brown people are in general more violent? is it in the genes?

"alt-right"

You really do see the world in black and white.

The "Alt Right" is a specific rejection of the Tea Party. The Alt Right and the Tea Party hate each other and are completely opposing factions.

The Tea Party faction just called the Alt Right "left wing fascists" and kicked them out of their convention.

You should study up on current events a bit more.

The "Alt Right" is a specific rejection of the Tea Party. The Alt Right and the Tea Party hate each other and are completely opposing factions.

They hate each other only as much as the Ted Cruz's of the world hate the Donald Trump's of the world. In the end, they lick the balls of the same big oil/bankers/military/pharma/evangelical/etc. handlers. Show me otherwise...

they lick the balls

How very homoerotic of you. Do all of your political analogies revolve around rather homophobic and sexist metaphors?

When talking about closeted old Republicans/GOP men... yeah.

There is that homophobia again.

My side doesn't have homophobia as a part of their platform, like Trump's Tea Party does.

Your use of homophobic and sexist metaphors to attack your perceived enemies says more about you than about your perceived enemies.

Do you think there is something inherently degrading about "licking balls?" Women often "lick the balls" of their boyfriends - it can be a pleasurable experience for both.

Do you think women are naturally "degraded" for engaging in sex which is why you use such metaphors to somehow insult your perceived enemies?

Is your denigration of women's sexuality behind your denigration of LGBT sexuality as well? You find it somehow "demeaning" if a man were to take the supposed "women's role?"

You may want to spend some time inventorying your own assumptions about sexuality - other people's as well as your own.

Do you think there is something inherently degrading about "licking balls?" Women often "lick the balls" of their boyfriends - it can be a pleasurable experience for both.

Republicans (and yes, Corporate old order Democrats also) licking balls of their donors gets them more campaign contributions. Donors get the legislation they want. I guess it can be a pleasurable experience for both (just not for the rest of Americans). Catch my drift?

Stop projecting with the rest of your diatribe about sexuality.

It's clearly you that is projecting all sorts of confused sexuality onto your perceived enemies.

I'd work on that if I were you.

"so blatantly" . seriously?

SERIOUSLY. What did it take? 3 weeks for Trump to sell the State Dept to Exxon, the EPA to big oil, education to the DeVos oligarchs, the Treasury to Goldman... and in the next breath proudly announce massive de-regulations that will help his buddies at the top. He drained the swamp only to fill it with his own set of cronies (including dealings with Russian mob people like Felix Sater).

We'll have another chance at redirecting this country away from the old and corrupt, towards the new and united (not under the guide of the old decrepit and bigoted Tea Party either).

as if it wasnt fully owned before. open your eyes.

And it SHOULD NOT be owned today under a sleazy salesman like Trump. Open your eyes. We'll have another chance at draining the swamp after we get past this latest billionaire crook and his set of corporate handlers.

yes because its time a democrat and its crooked donors make a difference.

It's time for an independent progressive leader like Bernie, who DID NOT rely on crooked donors, but DID rely on the hopes of young people for a better stronger more prosperous and more inclusive America.

EL OH EL.

Rule 10: This is your warning.

ok sorry. i got heated.

Trumpists out in force in this thread. Thanks OP for being true to the cause. I've tried to do my bit here, but you just get called a Shill for the DNC if you criticize the US government these days.

Thank you. I hope most Trump voters are aware alert and knowledgeable enough to admit that this is NOT a direction we want to go for. It wasn't Clinton either, but it does have to be a genuine champion for the lower classes.

If only we could get a turnout like this at the election/s

Why would you not be pro pharma? Obviously haven't been sick recently. You know this is a personal subject to me and it pains me to see people trashing an industry designed to help them when they need it. Are thretsome bad apples? Absolutely. But generally pharmaceuticals and western medicine save and extend millions of lives a year.

You forgot your /s tag.

I sure didn't. How about this? Next time your sick, stay home. Don't take medicine. This will not only prove me right but eliminate idiots from the gene pool.

I complete oppose slavery. It's just WRONG - and I don't care WHO knows it!

Thanks for fighting the good fight, fuck the establishment loving muppets.

Private Prisons are such a red Hering.

Private Prisons. According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, for-profit companies were responsible for approximately 7 percent of state prisoners and 18 percent of federal prisoners in 2015 .

https://www.aclu.org/issues/mass-incarceration/privatization-criminal-justice/private-prisons

Preaching to the choir brother

And Pro Israel.

One thing I've learned is you cant worry about cronyism because regardless who is in power it will be there.

Trump is part of the Zionist Elites and they are doing Battle with the Globalist Elites. The average citizen is an after thought in this power struggle.

This gov was all of those things before trump.

Fucking A. Unfortunately EVERY candidate is pro those things, so go vote and pretend it matters.

I can't stand when some older folks say "why won't you millennial pussies join the military?" This post gives the perfect reason why.

"pro goldman sachs" hahahahaha. much needed laugh

Do you live in the United States? Yes? Do you pay taxes? Yes?

Then you defend that government.

Sucks, but you do. Me too. Most of us do, unfortunately. We may not support them in what we say about them...but we support them at least financially.

Then dont...

Not disagreeing with you but what does this have to do with conspiracies? This sounds like it belongs in politics.

No one asked you to.

The people in power are the third party. They are the anti establishment, as far as we can tell. This is why we are giving them time.

I hope this will wake a lot of tea party guys up to the facts. And we can all see how much we have in common.

These are very basic geopolitical principles, and you're doing your argument a disservice by acting this way.

It's the only historical example of what you're advocating. Other revolutions like the one you advocate just ended up making things worse than they were before (USSR).

A stateless society, in my opinion, is impossible regardless. There are too many low IQ and conditioned people who would not know what to do or how to act without someone in authority telling them what to do, and too many high IQ people who would immediately see the overturning of the previous order as a way to manipulate the masses and seize power and wealth for themselves. This might be a symptom of hierarchal structure, but those people are not going to simply disappear once the old authorities are done away with. Animal Farm does a great job of describing this phenomenon.

You

Semonila? Do you mean Somalia?

Somalia is a war-torn region with several militias in there and US and UN intervention happened there not too long ago. It's not comparable to a state run on Anarchist principles, respecting the NAP and private property. I mean to this day the US is still involved in Somalia.

Yeah, the solution to government theft is more government theft. Right.

You think because I said the same thing twice to two different people, I'm a bot?

Absolutely fucking delusional. Must be nice to have a built-in biological safe space.

ok sorry. i got heated.

Not if they keep cutting public edu and stupid people keep saying shit like:

There is no way to reform the system within the system.

Online to distract and deter discussion.

Actually, yes there is. You hijack the party the way the TEA party did. The TEA party was ultra-grass roots, spread through talk radio and the Internet. It was the original anti-Wall Street, anti-government movement before Occupy. The TEA party worked its ass off to primary incumbent politicians and flooded the ranks of the GOP with newbies who wanted to fix DC. Guess what? They were able to shake off the political, media, and deep state establishment to elect a complete political outsider (TRUMP). Don't forget, that was the first time in American history where a person not working in public service found a way to become president. Especially important when everyone in the MSM and political establishment was against him.

Now, I think Trump is a terrible president, but it shows that it is possible. Civilized, organized, incorruptible citizens can change this shit. The TEA party hijacked the GOP in 6 years.

The TEA party, the progressive base, the former middle class, and the independents make up a vast majority of the voting public. We see the government cutting programs for average folk, advocating for a reduction in benefits, and cutting taxes for the rich... The rest of the budget gets shifted to corporate subsidies, the military industry, and the government bureaucracy. Everyone fucking hates this shit except the oligarchs and corporate elite who have all the wealth being siphoned off towards them. This can stop. It wasn't always like this. We can have capitalism and a social safety net. The economy can grow, have competitive free enterprise, and allow reforms to help the common man. We need politicians who aren't sucking the tits of corporate lobbyists and accepting the sweet sweet dark cash of corporate america.

Looks at North Korea if you like government

xen·o·pho·bi·a ˌzenəˈfōbēə,ˌzēnəˈfōbēə/

noun

intense or irrational dislike or fear of people from other countries.

I'm intensely pro-American, but PRO an America that is inclusive, just, fair, promotes community, promotes working with a good uncorrupted government, and one that looks to a future of more equality and team work. I am intensely AGAINST a nation built on fear of foreigners, individualistic "fuck you I got mine" attitudes of the past, being run to the ground by fascist (read: corporate) demagogues abusing people's misinformed insecurities, and against the disintegration of structures that promote social justice.

Meh, point is I think Devos will be the worse SOE in 30+ years. Guess we can only wait and see.

Would you like to elaborate?