[Request]: How do you respond when people tell you "There's no way conspiracy X, Y, or Z could be possible, it's impossible to keep a conspiracy secret with so many people involved. Someone would rat."

18  2017-02-26 by [deleted]

[deleted]

37 comments

n/a  deagalprojection 2017-02-26

Research "compartmentalization".

n/a  mastigia 2017-02-26

And the Manhatten Project.

n/a  Sirbinkai 2017-02-26

That's actually a really great example. Thanks, I think on that.

n/a  mastigia 2017-02-26

The more you think about it the more you realize our government is designed to contain conspiracy. This defies regular understanding because the idea and its implications are just too big to get off in one bite.

n/a  Sirbinkai 2017-02-26

Absolutely. I understand this, but getting other people to understand it is the hard part.

n/a  mconeone 2017-02-26

The Gulf of Tonkin is a pretty good example.

Born on the 4th of July is a great movie to show as well.

n/a  quantumcipher 2017-02-26

Specifically, the usage of SCI clearances, or 'sensitive compartmented information', a type of security clearance used for sensitive (i.e. black or special access) projects and intel given solely on an individual and need-to-know basis, and that violating such a clearance would be the equivolent of career suicide and can come with a risk of imprisonment. Also, non-disclosure agreements, which can be used to maintain corporate and trade secrets.

n/a  DepletedMitochondria 2017-02-26

Also, imagine the pay out those people got if it was faked. OR, the other alternative that they're not around to speak anymore.

n/a  We_are_all_satoshi 2017-02-26

Supposedly 2 Trillion dollars went missing on 9/11. That's enough to make 2000 people Billionaires or 2 million people millionaires.

n/a  Emmaisperfect 2017-02-26

https://youtu.be/VXZcsHxD6Yk?t=9m26s

n/a  Sister_Lauren 2017-02-26

Point out that people do rat, for example 9/11. Susan Lindauer talks about how people were talking about it months in advance. She ratted them out and was treated very badly for it. She was not the only one. Al of the people who ratted out 9/11 were treated very, very badly.

n/a  PortOfDenver 2017-02-26

Where's Jimmy Hoffa?

n/a  Sirbinkai 2017-02-26

Care to explain?

n/a  KnightBeforeTomorrow 2017-02-26

He's a major mob boss who's body was never found and no one knows who killed him, That's the gist but you'd have to be old like me to know the full flavor of the events around him.I dumped what I knew of him somewhere with his body. It's better not to dig him up.

n/a  Sirbinkai 2017-02-26

Interesting. Just had a chat with my father, who grew up in Detroit and was a large employer when Hoffa was around, and he had a lot of things to say about him.

He told me, his lawyer at the time was representing a client, and refused to join the Union, and Hoffa told him if he didn't join the union in 48 hours, he'd break both of his legs.

2 days later, my Dad got a call from his friend in the hospital, they broke both his legs.

n/a  Anhonestlawyer 2017-02-26

A person such as you describe believes that the nature of society is such that it could never precipitate the conditions necessary to allow for such grandiose conspiracies to possible be true.

The best response to this sort of thinking is to slowly eat away at the perception of what is possible within a society. History is rich with genocide, backstabbing, inside-deals and secret police. Show them examples of such things over an extended period of time and they may slowly experience a change in the way they perceive society, and what can be orchestrated within it.

The history of the United States is filled with examples of organized injustice. If a person knows of these things, and accepts them as either true, or possibly true, then they will more readily admit the possibility of such things being recurrent.

n/a  whyd_you_kill_doakes 2017-02-26

I believe something like 150,000 worked on project Manhattan and only a handful knew what they were actually working toward building. Compartmentalization and "need to know" keep people in the dark about a lot. It's why some low ranked fbi dude can't find out about what's in area 51, it's not his field and he doesn't need to know.

n/a  Sirbinkai 2017-02-26

Really good example, thanks.

n/a  GuruOfGravitas 2017-02-26

I don't invest too much in needing agreement from others. If some one is disinterested, I am not going to go all tight jaw red faced on them.

n/a  jacks1000 2017-02-26

About 9/11 specifically, hundreds of people said something. Hundreds of people "ratted out" the conspiracy.

No one listened.

n/a  Sirbinkai 2017-02-26

Can you give me some examples?

n/a  jacks1000 2017-02-26

Susan Lindauer, Sibel Edmonds, Kevin Ryan, April Gallop ... I could go on.

n/a  vanquish_islam 2017-02-26

Could you please?

n/a  sheasie 2017-02-26

"There's no way conspiracy X, Y, or Z could be possible, it's impossible to keep a conspiracy secret with so many people involved. Someone would rat."

  • depends on the size and nature of the conspiracy

  • for big conspiracies, lots of compartmentalization

  • some rats do rat (i.e., Seth Rich) and they are killed.

  • some rats do rat (ie., Chelsea Manning) and they are put in prison.

  • many rats won't rat unless their life depended on it... because they are being extorted (i.e., many of DC elite are pedophiles and are on film having sex with minors, and are puppets of those who own copies of the photos and/or video)

  • most won't rat because they are just happy w/ their salary and their peaceful family life, and are not at all interested in biting the hand that feeds them. (it's not that people are not moral... it's that they are driven by self protection, primarily.)

n/a  LurkPro3000 2017-02-26

I just watched that Black Mirror episode where an unknown "they" blackmAils a trail of pedophile fucks... I hope real life mirrors the end of that saga.

n/a  thegreenwookie 2017-02-26

Loved that episode...the "Roaches" episode was sorta depressing and an "ahh fuck, that's already happening"

n/a  fisforfish 2017-02-26

I show them this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgrunnLcG9Q

n/a  LurkPro3000 2017-02-26

Wow. Wish that Corbett was still around

n/a  Downstrike 2017-02-26

Ask them how many people they thing need to be involved? Training exercise going on with hijacked planes. Real hijacked planes hitting targets. Sounds like you need one dude that would know about the training exercise to tell Al Qaeda that on so and so date, you can hijack planes because the training schedule will confuse almost everyone.

n/a  KnightBeforeTomorrow 2017-02-26

I had the number of people who were in on the secret development of the first nuclear bomb, It was well over a hundred thousand and the secret was kept.

n/a  KnightBeforeTomorrow 2017-02-26

Most people think something like' They'd never get away with doing that. They wouldn't let 'em"

Ironically the 'they' who say that are the 'they' who aren't supposed to let conspiracies happen but they are the very ones who do.

n/a  Hambone_Malone 2017-02-26

Perfect sense.

n/a  gargamelwasafacist 2017-02-26

ARGO

n/a  madhousechild 2017-02-26

Because those who would speak have something to fear. Either they participated in criminal activity, or they could lose their job, their life, or that of their family.

n/a  dreamslaughter 2017-02-26

Concerning 911 and "so many people".

Here's what it took to bring down much larger structures:

Doesn't factor in nano thermate, which you would may need much less of.

KingDome = 4000 lbs of conventional explosives

Texas Stadium = 3000 lbs

Veterans Stadium = 3000 lbs

Hudson Department Store = 2,728 lbs

South Padre tower - 1550 lbs

Old Humana Building = 550 lbs

Stella Wright Homes = 500 lbs (thirteen buildings)

Here's a list of a couple of dozen implosions, none over 1000 pounds conventional.

Typical Magliner hand cart. Gemini XL under Capacity, as platform truck. This typical cart can carry 1250 lbs.

One person could have brought what was needed before their morning coffee break without breaking a sweat. One person. One cart. Three trips.

n/a  HashtagDadJoke 2017-02-26

Don't.

Show them the absolutely confirmed conspiracies. Cointelpro, Operation Northwoods, MK Ulitra, US overthrow of Iranian government. Just reading declassified documents would redpill the shit out of most people

n/a  MollyNostrils23 2017-02-26

Well apparently 19 guys and any associates managed to keep their conspiracy to fly planes into buildings a secret all the way up until they did so. So what are they saying? That if it was a different group responsible somebody would have blabbed?

n/a  FindingFrisson 2017-02-26

I think this is a good way, but with less sarcasm.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5hej12/you_guys_wont_believe_the_crazy_thing_this_crazy/

n/a  michaelmalak 2017-02-26

"They've all made YouTubes and you're not paying attention."

P.S. Also Bill Cosby

n/a  AFuckYou 2017-02-26

Talk about compartmentalization https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmentalization_(information_security)

A lot of times, people don't even know what they are doing. They don't know what they are apart of. They just know that they are apart of something bigger, better. They are the reason why the US works.

For example, a handful of TSA employees were caught smuggling coke. It was not just those employees. They probably worked under one person leading. And some one was leading them.

It's compartmentalized. And the one person thy actually knows what's going on has TWO INCENTIVES.

First LIVING. The CIA will take you out if you rat. Second, a sweet deal. Look at how Hillary took care of thy child trafficker. Judges went light, she gets a cushy job when she gets out. Lawyers and money for the rest of life.

So it compartmentalized so most people involved have no actual idea what the duck their doing. They move bags, get paid 10k.

Then for the single person that does know, incentives. Life, money, paid judges.

It is CLASSIC CIA. This is how it works.

Even doctors in organ harvesting operations don't know how the person was murdered. They are just doing their job and getting parts to where they need to go. The people doing the murdering are just told the people are bad. The ones getting the people are told their used for a survey l. Etc on and on and on. It's just on person with money compartmentalizing everything.

n/a  HelperBot_ 2017-02-26

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n/a  Aders83 2017-02-26

Manhattan Project