Space Elevator Answer Compile

53  2017-02-28 by Darkomantis

This post is a compile of Space Elevator who had reappeared in December 21 and began talking about a new construction concept of a Space Elevator that would only need to reach LEO and be built out of Steel/Kevlar.


It is already possible to build a space elevator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qezLhypA0Y

The key idea is the Orbital Ring version of the space elevator, not the geosynchronous tether concept you are familiar with. See, for example, Paul Birch's writings: http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-I.pdf

The orbital ring only requires tethers about 300 kilometers long which is technically feasible with common material like steel, but ridiculously straightforward with better and already available material like kevlar.


There are some important questions. First, how much would it cost to do something like this?

We need to send about 160 million kilograms of material into space (See Birch's boot strap estimates in part 2: http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-II.pdf) We have rockets available at $2000/kg costs to LEO today in "mass production" mode, which is only about 10-20 launches per year. Compared with the couple thousand launches necessary for a space elevator, $2000 is an unreasonably high upper bound for launch costs.

We also need to include the cost of materials. A space elevator is about 98% steel (though you can use kevlar for the steel) and aluminum, 1% kevlar, and 1% other such as superconducting magnets. Most of the mass (98%) cost around $1/kg, with an average cost per kilogram of no more than about $10 per kilogram.

Summing the above up, we get about $430 billion in launch costs plus another $1-2 billion in material costs.

In other words, we can have a space elevator for less than $450 billion - significantly less than one year worth of DoD spending, one bank bailout, many times less than a variety of pointless wars, etc. This is well within our reach financially in other words.


What do we get in return for this $450 billion investment?

Virtually unlimited value. For example, with a space elevator we can reliably launch our nuclear waste into the sun. We've spent $100 billion building a waste repository in Nevada, but it was ultimately decided not to even use it. Now it costs only a dollar or two per kilogram to get rid of all of the nuclear waste in the world.

Second, we have immediate access to viable asteroid mining industry. Because the cost of delivering payloads to LEO drops to about $1/kilogram, we can now retrieve asteroids with trillions of dollars worth of minerals for mere tens millions of dollars in addition to having an easy viable way of returning those resources back to the surface. We acquire the ability to deploy profitable solar power in orbit above cloud cover and with the ability to return said power back to the surface with near zero loss by running power transmission cables down the elevator.

Just how profitable?

With increased luminosity in space, enhanced exposure time, and the ability to deliver base loads, solar panels pay for themselves in only 1-2 years while having a 20 year life time. In other words, if you put $5 trillion of solar panels into space, you get your $5 trillion back by the end of year two and a $5 trillion income stream each year thereafter. In other words, the US could cut everyone's taxes, both personal and business, income, capital, death, or otherwise, all to 0%, not even cut any benefits or current spending, and pay off the national debt within a decade.


It should already be obvious that the entirety of the political debate spectrum is cointelpro.

  • Are taxes too high or too low? Irrelevant, we don't actually need taxes.

  • Is social spending bankrupting us? Irrelevant, we can retire the national debt without cutting spending all while having no tax whatsoever.

  • What does this have to do with taking the red pill? We've had the technological ability to undertake such a project for decades.

That means all the squabbling you have heard your entire life, money, debt, spending, taxes, scarcity, whatever, is all bullshit. Not only is it bullshit, anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the world has known that it is all bullshit for all of this time.

In other words, once you come to understand the such a project is and has been technically feasible for decades, you have to reevaluate many things.

Why is there nothing of this in the conspiracy media? They are not really trying to expose or solve any problems. One hundred percent of it is cointelpro. From the Young Turks to Infowars or whatever, they are all completely full of shit because solutions to our problems not only exist, are easy to carry out, but this has been the case for a very long time.

Similarly, you now know that 20%+ annual GDP growth is possible. If Trump gives you 3-4% instead of Obama's 2%, he is simply working with the establishment to try to placate and subvert a rising tide. If we see the easily achievable 20%+ growth rates, it is at least possible that he isn't a subversive. Anything less and you know he is a fraud.


How much material is required for a sun shade that blocks 2% of the solar intensity (enough to completely reverse any hypothetical global warming)?

Only about 20 million tonnes.

With a space elevator in hand, our cost to deliver payloads to space drops to about $1/kg.

We can construct the sunshade out of thin wire mesh of pretty much any material, aluminum for example, which costs about $1/kg.

In other words, a sunshade would only run us about $100B inclusive of material, construction, and launch costs.

A one time tax of $15 per person in the world is enough to undo global warming if you have a space elevator.

A one time tax of $100 per person is enough to build a space elevator and then build a sunshade.

And most importantly, all of this is cold, hard objective fact. Nothing to dispute. So next time global warming comes up, pick wisely between the two:

(1) circle jerk in the Overton window (2) talk about how can solve it all for a one time fee of $100/person, rendering permanently obsolete this political wedge

51 comments

Part 1

  • So? They won't blow it up for the same reason they don't nuke NYC or LA. Especially considering there will be people living there as tickets to space would be reduced to ~$50 / person. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103855134

  • I'm glad you raised these points. (1) and (2) Actually, the orbital ring rotates faster than orbital velocity for the altitude it is situated. Therefore, a break in the ring (terrorist attack, meteorite, etc.) would result in the ring climbing to higher altitude, not falling to the ground. It would take hundreds of years for the orbit to decay, allowing plenty of time for repair. (3) This isn't true - we can build orbital rings at any inclination. For example, it can run along the 30 and 150 degree longitude lines, avoiding the middle east, china, etc. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103855704

  • That's an interesting point. One of the things cheap access to space provides is cheap energy. With cheap energy and cheap access to space, we can set up high tech recycling facilities in orbit. Spin up your trash, blast it with lasers and allow centrifugal forces to sort your old trash by atomic weight. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103856187

  • If you watch the video, costs are all explained. A space elevator would cost between 180-450 billion depending on how expensive your rockets are. You need about 3,000 Falcon Heavys to lift all the material into orbit, which is about 30x the number of rockets we use on an annual basis. There is nothing preventing us from scaling up to produce that many within a couple of years though. Technologically, an elevator is actually extremely simple and there is no real bottleneck other than rocket production. In fact, you can build "half rings" as well, although it is better for America to just lead the way into space with a full blown ring and tell the haters to get over it. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103856667

  • Although there are many good reasons, reliable access by humans is probably near the top of the list. Mass drivers have g forces that are too high for people and rockets fail 2-5% of the time, far, far too high for anyone to become a regular visitor to space. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103856916

  • As everyone knows on /pol/, the government is not on our side. For the same reason that they intentionally destroy the middle class in Europe and America, they do not want projects which open up immense new wealth to be completed. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103857045

  • With an elevator in hand, you can clean up space very cheaply. You should also bear in mind that the US military already has lasers capable of shooting down missiles. No terrorist organization is going to be able to launch a rocket at the orbital ring - intercepting it with lasers is particularly easy from above as you don't have any problems with "seeing over the horizon" to your target, no need for forward radars, etc. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103857243

  • Maybe - I would have to do the math - but a space station in orbit around Mars doesn't do anyone any good. It is simply "cool." On the other hand, an orbital ring space elevator reduces launch costs to geosynchronous orbit to approximately $2/kg. Space based solar power, asteroid mining, semiconductor manufacture, protein synthesis, permanent zero-g industrial zones all become immediately profitable. Furthermore, you can afford to colonize Mars with a space elevator rather than just waving your dick about being first there and back. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103857529

  • Right, so we are incapable of thorough security screening and even if we were not, we should give up on progress because what if bad guise. Regardless of the irrelevance of this sort of defeatism to everyone else, the problems you suggest can be engineered around with "no fly" zones in the vicinity of the ring, armoring it up (very cheap at $2/kg launch costs). https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103858049

  • The Falcon Heavy sells for $2400/kg now to LEO. With mass manufacture (defined as 10+ per year) that is expected to drop to $1000/kg. We want 3,000 of them, i.e., very massive scale production and can realistically expect $500/kg rockets. The cost of the elevator and orbital ring would drop from about $430 billion to about $90 billion if you can get $500/kg launch costs. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103858240

  • That is correct. The $430 billion (or less than $100 billion more realistically) design presented in the video is capable of about 200 billion kilograms of throughput year. Compared with the 10 million kilograms total put into orbit in the last 60 years, your possibilities are basically unlimited from day one. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103858446

  • With an orbital ring space elevator, global wealth goes up by hundreds of trillions of dollars almost overnight. Near earth asteroids are economical to retrieve, with trillions of dollars of minerals in each one. Each solar panel you place into GEO (simplified way of putting it) pays for itself in about one year, producing income stream afterwards for 20-30 more years. Rather than 2-3% economic growth, we will be looking at 20-30% annual GDP growth and boundless optimism around the world. This is why you, and the evil governments you parrot, hate this idea. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103858981

  • For starters, one of the selling points in governmental halls as to why we should suppress the middle class or third world countries is resource exploitation in a scarcity-driven world.

With an elevator in hand, we can afford 100% recycling down to the atomic level by centrifuging waste in space blasted with lasers. Landfills are completely unnecessary with a space elevator: organic waste becomes fertilizer, all else is recycled with 100% efficiency.

Most of the world's problems are solved in this way, and the new paradigm is uplifting the masses around the world to drive economic growth and rising production / utilization of our newfound mass sustainable wealth. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103859849


  • That's actually not true for orbital rings. The elevator is supported by the ring which can be at any inclination. It is possible to deploy over the Atlantic and Pacific oceans, crossing only eastern Siberia. (30 west and 150 east longitudes) https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103860452

  • It would cost about $430 billion at already available commercial prices (Falcon Heavy), basically free compared to the value of having an elevator. Actual costs would be much lower because it is 99% rocket costs which would need to be mass manufactured (never have been) and would therefore come with significant cost savings. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103864815


  • There is some limited ability to recycle spent rods, but not significant. The reactors we have now were designed with the intention to produce fissile material for bombs rapidly rather than clean fuel cycles. We could rebuild reactors with better fuel cycles or switch to liquid salt type reactors, but the problem of already existing waste is still there. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103865813

  • We'll have an elevator within 10 years. Infrastructure projects are coming back in a big way with the rise of nationalism across the world. The economic paradigm will shift, it must. https://yuki.la/pol/103854385#p103876227

  • Solves mankind's energy problems, gives a new direction / impetus to the species and resolves this SJW stuff going on.

While the government / oligarchy has prodded SJW crap along, ultimately it is only possible because the youth need to dream. If not onward to space or some such (use to be economical upward mobility, same thing really) then you get deleterious infighting. https://yuki.la/pol/105683747#p105687552


  • It wouldn't take more than about two years to complete.

We need to construct and launch about 4,000 rockets in total.

In terms of launching, we already have two dozen plus functional launch facilities around the world. Running full steam at about one launch every other day, that is less than a year of rocket launches to get 4,000 into the air.

That leaves only the question of whether you can ramp up to the rate of construction of rockets of 10 per day within a year, a pretty simple task.

Rocket production really only requires warehouses to do it in (of which there are plenty empty, but many more can be built in a matter of months), plus the skilled labor. There are no resource bottle necks like fuel - it is easy to produce ample liquid oxygen / kerosene, etc.

TL;DR essentially all you have to do is take the existing rocket production skilled labor, use them to train more of themselves, then set them all to work double time for a few months. There is nothing particularly complicated about acquiring a space elevator or any major obstacle in the way other than an evil regime not interested in mankind's progress. https://yuki.la/pol/107546074#p107550739


Part 2

  • Even at 2000B, the project is worthwhile.

Retrieval of a single asteroid can pay for a project cost of trillions of dollars. There is no argument against it on a cost basis.

As to your lolbertardian objections, anyone with the most basic of history knows you are flatly wrong. The original majority middle class generated in US society is a direct outgrowth of road building, canal building, electrification programs, and so on, that created the most efficient economic engine mankind has ever known. This is simply an extension of what we already know works.

Finally, territory over the equator is unnecessary (but easily conquered if we wanted it) because orbital rings can be built at any inclination. It works perfectly fine running over the north and south poles. https://yuki.la/pol/107546074#p107554097


  • The video doesn't go into much detail here but the general idea of cost reduction is still valid.

The Falcon Heavy that is quoted at $2000/kg at ~10 launches per year, for example, is designed to be both reusable and able to execute rocket powered landings for no good reason ("go to Mars without a space elevator in place first" - retarded).

We have no reason to execute powered landings on Earth. It is only for landing on asteroids/Mars. Parachutes are a cheaper and better alternative if you want to reuse rockets.

But, we have no reason to use reusable rockets. The whole concept presupposes that rockets are never going to be mass manufactured and gain efficiencies of scale.

Finally, we don't need human rated launch platforms. It is perfectly fine if 5% of them blow up during launch if that means the rockets can be made 15% cheaper.

Ok, so those are three big cost saving points for how such a program would actually be carried out.

We also have to consider that much of the current cost of rockets is in amortized R&D. If you spend $10B developing rockets you only use 100 times, they start off costing $100 million a piece before you've even built anything. If you launch one design several thousand times, you are saving tens of millions of dollars per rocket.

Then, we have underutilized facilities. Global launches are only about 100 per year and yet we have 20+ operational launchpads, dozens of organizations each staffed with the personnel to carry out these launches on their own, all of whom are only working at less than 1% capacity. Same thing applies to rocket production facilities, the people who are employed to build rockets, do quality assurance, and so on.

Scaling up brings your infrastructure utilization from 1% to near 100%, including the vast army of people whose salaries make up a huge chunk of the cost.

We could go on, but you can see by now that 90% reduction in costs is easy to see. https://yuki.la/pol/107461735#p107479153


  • Consider the vast array of unused capital existing today in the world. There are idle humans, idle oil rigs, idle caterpillar equipment, or more to the point, even idle rocket designers, launch planners, and rocket production facilities plus stockpiles of idle resources.

It takes not very long to realize that there is actually no socially imposed economic cost of acquiring a space elevator. In fact, the organizational impetus of such a project only relieves socially imposed economic burdens of disorganization and idleness that are dwindling the productive capacity. In short, we are relieving the world of a bit of the bad sort of chaos with visionary order, while also imbuing the world with the type of chaos that we desire - the potentiality of a drive forward to new, better, higher modes.

Or in less philosophical terms, a space elevator generates hundreds of trillions of dollars in wealth within a few short years, whereas no other comparable expenditure is within an order of magnitude of such productive success. The weighing of cost and benefits is trivial in this case. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107548175


  • This is actually a more expensive way of going about it even if it seems intuitively appealing.

Imagine a small manufacturing hub that could use asteroid material to generate our ring. If the manufacturing base were the size of a single world trade center, it would weigh 450 million kilograms - more than twice what the ring weighs and therefore already doubling cost before even acquiring a ring. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107548700


  • (1) Stormy weather - if you review Paul Birch's papers on the concept starting here: http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-I.pdf ; you'll find that drag forces from Cat5 storms are well within the tolerance of such a structure. Nevertheless, we can engineer out encounters with such storms in a fairly straightforward manner. Imagine, rather than a continuous tether from the ground to the orbital ring, that your elevator is built in two pieces.

First, you have an inflatable tower reaching to about 10-20 kilometers - above the height of storms. Then, you couple your tower to your hanging tether from the orbital ring. The inflatable tower can be retracted when storms are approaching while the tether from the ring is left hanging above any passing storm for the duration. Because you can couple dozens of tethers to a single orbital ring system and only one or two are necessary for gravitational stability (rings around a central mass tend to destabilize from any perturbation without a coupling force to counteract), we can give a first approximation that only ~5% of the elevators need to be operational at any given time. In fact the situation is much friendlier, because the orbital ring takes a couple months to destabilize with no elevators whatsoever attached. So really all that we require is that a single elevator out of dozens is functional for a brief period at least once every two months to maintain system stability.

(2) Objects flying up there, debris... The US military already has lasers that can shoot down rockets. Similarly, we can deploy such systems around the ring to defend it from any incoming threatening objects.

(3) Magnetosphere interference? Drag is calculated in Birch's papers referenced above. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107552578

(4) Maintenance costs.... The first orbital ring costs about $1 billion in materials versus $400 billion or so to launch into space. It has a throughput capacity several orders of magnitude greater than its own weight each year. You can place billions of kilograms of payload into orbit in the first year of operation in addition to building hundreds of new rings. Of course we don't want to just give up on old rings. That's no problem. The original ring system is expanded from two coupled counterrotating rings to perhaps 14 or 16 coupled counterrotating rings trivially. You therefore gain the ability to spin down any two for maintenance / repairs or even simple cannibalization and replacement. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107553066


  • You are giving yourself an assumption not related to reality, namely:

lets say we have only 2 options.

When we already have the capacity to start today and have an elevator built within two years for trivial levels of expenditure. Far less than wars, bank bailouts, annual defense spending, etc.

We KNOW that within 2-3 years of having a space elevator the world will have been dramatically transformed by high double digit annual GDP growth, expiring of national debts, setting all taxes to 0%, and so on. To put off such a possible future because it might become even easier to attain in the future is nonsense; if such a thing were to happen, it means only that our future is even brighter than we imagined looking forward to no taxes, no scarcity, no energy problems, and so on.

Meanwhile, doing nothing means the future is bleak. The choice is not even close to difficult. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107553652


  • An unbroken ring around a central body, if the centers of mass are even slightly perturbed from alignment, would eventually result in the ring crashing into the central mass.

If the ring is cut / broken, it wouldn't crash to Earth. Because it spins at higher than orbital velocity, it would actually just move up and away from the planet. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107554569


  • Nationalism is retarded. There is no point in being proud of something you had no control over. You did not decide to be born American.

However, using the nationstate as an organizing vehicle for economic advancement is as American as it gets. https://yuki.la/pol/107617996#p107623815


  • Space exploration is pretty pointless in a way, yes.

Is there any reason to spend $100B on a manned mission to Mars? Well, there is exactly one. It is meant to capture your attention and prevent it from being directed towards fruitful endeavors.

Once we build a space elevator is a relatively straightforward task to colonize and terraform Mars though. Turning the planet into another habitable zone for mankind would be a worthwhile endeavor and is achievable with today's technology. https://yuki.la/pol/107306468#p107312307


Part 3

  • 1) Defense is pretty straightforward. You can position your elevators anywhere you want and orient the ring at any inclination you want. So we can run it north - south almost entirely over the Atlantic / Pacific oceans for example, far away from access by plebs. We already have robust anti-missile technology (see Israel's iron dome for example). In fact, the space elevator's defenses can be far better than any anti-missile or anti-plane technology on the ground because it has a perch from above and therefore doesn't have issues "seeing over the horizon" like ground based interceptors and associated radar units.

2) Maintenance is actually very straightforward. The orbital ring is actually a series of rings. You can have, for example, 5 rings spinning east-west and 5 rings spinning west-east all coupled together. Any two of them can be spun down (no net momentum change) for regular repairs while the system continues functioning normally. Throughput capacity can be adjusted by spinning up or spinning down the system and you can attach dozens of elevators to each ring system to create an incredibly robust system that is not susceptible to single or even several points of failure. https://yuki.la/pol/107306468#p107313538


  • Alex Jones is cointelpro.

  • NASA is a scam.


  • One interesting thing about the Space Elevator concept is that it serves as a mechanism for proving whether Trump is legitimately on the side of the American people or not. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107625186

  • First off, your post contains obviously wrong information, i.e., the need to beam power back down. With a space elevator in hand, you have the ability to connect the power grid to space based solar arrays.

Second, there are endless applications for additional energy in the economy. Laser ablation of waste can solve our trash / recycling power. Abundant energy means we can shift farming indoors and prevent nutrient run off into the oceans, reversing a worrisome trend of increasingly depleted soil around the world. We can name countless pressing problems for mankind that are solved by higher energy throughput in the economy.

Alternatively, we can think of the benefit in terms of cheaper energy. With virtually unlimited high EROEI sources of power, anything with energy as an input (your home, car, food, gadgets, whatever) can fall in price - that is to say, you get more stuff and are better off. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107626839


  • Building a space elevator will actually lead to a terraforming of Mars rapidly thereafter. Once you have an elevator on Earth, it is cheaper to send an elevator to Mars than it is to send a small manned mission to mars currently.

Material costs for the elevator are only about $1 billion, the main expense being the $400B in rockets you need to get it into space.

But, then you have cheap access to space and can put all the materials needed for an elevator on Mars into orbit for less than $2B. We can put rail guns along the orbital rings to accelerate our payloads to Mars, requiring rockets only for slowing down / insertion into Mars orbit.

In other words, the few tens of billions projected as a cost to for a one time mission to Mars today could instead buy us a space elevator on Mars and therefore make colonization including return trips to Earth cheap and trivial. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107627423


  • That is correct. Mankind's need for energy is orders of magnitude higher than current production. Most of our major problems, conflict drivers, and uncertainty about the future are all mediated by the construction of a space elevator and the moving of mankind into a much higher energy throughput economy. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107627522

  • This is simply not true. Indoor farms present obvious benefits like the ability to prohibit undesired cross-pollination due to a controlled environment, more efficient water and nutrient use (no run off), the ability to deliver the exact amount of desired sunlight on any schedule, and perhaps most importantly, you no longer need pesticides and such. Being unexposed to the outdoors, a couple of bug zapping lasers and modest decontamination protocol entering the growing ozones is more than sufficient to prevent any pest infestation. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107627859

  • A steel jacketed kevlar elevator has sufficient material strength to withstand placement in permanent Cat5 winds.

However, even if this were not the case, it wouldn't even prevent the idea from being viable.

The orbital ring can support dozens of elevators. Rather than the system being permanently locked in place (as would be the case with a ~40,000 km geosynchronous elevator), the orbital ring supports itself and the elevators can be detached and/or moved along the ring.

For example, the first 20 kilometers of the elevator could be supported by an inflatable structure that is retractable. The final ~180 kilometers to the orbital ring can detach from the first 20 kilometers in the event of bad weather, the first 20 kilometers being retracted to the ground for the duration of the storm. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107628195


  • Why on Earth would you want access to orbit for $1 / kg instead of thousands of dollars per kilogram?

Jokes aside, even if we had infinite money to waste on rockets, we would actually still want to build a space elevator. Why? Because rockets are just controlled bombs that no one has been able to build more reliable than about 97-98%.

That means that a few dozen trips to space gives you >50% probability of dying on a failed rocket. On the other hand, it is a trivial exercise to parachute down given a space elevator failure, meaning that people could take hundreds or thousands of trips between the surface, space, other planets, moons, and so on with better reliability than operating a car or some other mundane and relatively safe task.

Space elevators invite regular and reliable access in a way that rockets never will. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107628582


  • > because it still takes the same amount of energy to move stuff up there.

This illustrates a fundamental misunderstanding of why space travel is so expensive right now.

When you send something to space on a rocket, what you are doing is sending 1 kilogram of payload and 100 kilograms of fuel to an elevation of say a kilometer, then 1 kilogram of payload and the remaining 99 kilograms of fuel to two two kilometers, and so on.

In other words, you are paying the price to lift far more than your payload because you carry your fuel with you.

With an elevator in hand, your payload fraction is easily an order of magnitude larger than any rocket can achieve and therefore your energy requirements in excess of an order of magnitude lower. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107628957


  • Orbital ring space elevator does not require carbon nanotubes because the elevator only needs to be a few hundred rather than 40,000 kilometers long.

In fact, you could build a space elevator with tapered steel using the orbital ring design. There is no reason to use steel rather than lighter materials with higher tensile strength like kevlar, but it is in principle strong enough. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107629061


  • >incorporate a power system directly into the elevator structure

That's right, you just run electrical lines down the elevator and tie into the grid. It is no different than connecting solar panels on your roof into the grid. High voltage DC transmission lines exist on Earth that are over 1000 miles long, far in excess of the length of the space elevator. Easy stuff. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107629257


  • You need about 200 million kilograms of material for a small orbital ring. By 'small' we are talking about able to support ~20 different elevators around the world each with 300 kg/sec throughput capacity or 200 billion kilograms per year. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107629486

Part 4

  • A single elevator would weigh about 100,000 kilograms, not all of which is kevlar.

In comparison, annual production is in excess of 50,000 tons - about 500x what we need for an elevator.

As is usual, the naysayers are simply slinging outright lies to try to discredit the idea. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107629657


-Is this a joke? DC voltage transmission lines are far less than $1 million / mile, or a few hundred million dollars to tie the array into the grid on the ground. It isn't even worthy of being called a rounding error, changing the cost by something like one part in 107 https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107629953


  • >Energy costs alone put you over $200/kg

Escape velocity of Earth is 11.2 kilometers/second, far in excess of the energy requirements to LEO.

Go somewhere like wolfram alpha and type in:

1/2 * (1 kg) * (11 km/s)2 in kwh * $0.12/kwh and observe the answer of $2.09.

Then come back and tell /pol/ you are sorry for lying and don't do it anymore. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107630312


  • Falcon Heavy is commercially available for $2000/kg. It isn't a speculative price - it is already available. The only direction you can even argue is less than $2,000/kg, which of course would be the result of mass manufacture, but is ultimately not worth arguing over. Even at high end of $2,000/kg or more, say $10,000/kg the elevator is a no brainer. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107630777

  • Electricity costs of delivering 1 kilogram to orbit is about $1, 3+ orders of magnitude cheaper than rockets. This is exactly why we build a space elevator if we are a rational species. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107631076

  • It is true that asteroid mining would reduce market costs dramatically at first until the economy expanded to meet the influx of new supply.

The point is that trillions of dollars of present day value can be delivered which are not available otherwise. Of course, the economy will rapidly expand in response to cheap inputs and prices will rise in response leading to some sort of semi-equilibrium over time, but this is far from a criticism - it is precisely what we want: a rapidly expanding economy that leaves mankind better off. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107631329


  • >power beaming

Except that isn't what you do when you have an elevator - you can be tied into the grid the whole time. You are off by a factor of 200 because you don't know what we are talking about, or are simply obfuscating on purpose https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107631509


  • Of course we would do that once the asteroid mining business was underway, but you can't expect that to be in place on day one. $1/kg to space is a high end estimate, as are all the other figures given. It isn't hard to see a wide variety of ways that the system would in fact be better in actual practice, but the point of the current exercise is to demonstrate feasibility rather than get bogged down in the details. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107631947

  • You are correct that we would want to clean up space. An orbital ring enables overnight deployment of lasers that can begin blasting all debris in orbit near Earth. Because they are tied into the grid via the elevator, we have more than enough energy to clean up space.

Your picture makes space seem very crowded, but in fact you know that it really isn't if you stop to think about it. We've had a space station in orbit for years doing just fine.

To give you some numbers to think about, the cross section of the ISS is about 5000 square meters. The cross section of the orbital ring would be significantly greater, close to 1 million square meters - about 200x more.

In other words, if the space station can reliably survive for years then we can reliably expect the orbital ring to have weeks to clean up debris in its vicinity from very basic common sense math.

The actual expectations of collision are significantly less than this first order approximation, but already you see that we have ample window of opportunity. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107632779


  • >we can't do this because $100/kg government inefficient

Oh, but actually the project is still obviously in our interests even if we grant that.

oh really? well actually the number is way higher then

You can go ahead and admit you are just shilling against the advancement of mankind at this point, since it is obvious enough to everyone. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107632967


  • All of this math is done for a 40,000 kilometer geosynchronous tether attached to a counterweight, which is in no way related to what we are talking about.

Instead, we are talking about ~200km tethers hooked to orbital rings. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107633168


  • Yes, of course, I am only demonstrating feasibility rather than going into extreme levels of detail.

For very small debris, we might just blast it into dust. For larger debris, you might want to send robots to capture it - a cheap and economically viable thing when your cost to LEO has dropped to $1/kg. https://yuki.la/pol/107622120#p107633439


  • The people who have fetishized Trump like the Obamadrones will hate objective criteria that allows us to determine whether Trump is on our side or not, so I expect plenty of pushback for this reason. There is some fear that you have been swindled and you will react violently to anything that might force you to come to see it.

On the other hand, I am not claiming you have been swindled. Trump could do truly magnificent things and deliver 20%+ GDP growth. It's easy, trivial, only uses decades old technology.

Here's to hoping we make America great again, but also to knowing whether or not we are actually doing that. https://yuki.la/pol/107713393#p107714752


  • This is not a valid argument.

Suppose that we have good government again, i.e., we build a space elevator and have the means to drop taxes to 0% while paying off the debt and without the need to cut any spending.

This sets a new baseline expectation in the population for the government: be productive, or get fucked.

Taxation should properly be viewed as an indictment of the competency of the government. That is to say that a government which feels compelled to tax (or print / inflate) is a government which is unable to find profitable investment, or a failed government that needs to be purged.

Having a reasonable scope of scientific competency leads one to this obvious axiom: those who tax you are failing you. Any regime, any president that feels the need to tax you is an incompetent and failed regime / leader. https://yuki.la/pol/107713393#p107715864


  • This is an interesting perspective and calls our attention to the old saying that magic is indistinguishable from sufficiently advanced technology from the perspective of a pleb.

However, in our endeavor to make America great again, we should rise above plebeian nature. Not in some grand enlightenment sense even - we are not invoking anything particularly remarkable here.

The technological ability to construct a space elevator and generate 20%+ GDP growth has been on the table for decades. The physics are straightforward and simple.

The extremity that we are encountering in this discussion therefore is not the remarkable nature of the space elevator concept, but rather the remarkably inept nature of government. The severity is the strength of indictment of the present regime.

This is a very uncomfortable viewpoint to adopt because it forces the schema with which you have made sense of the world thus far into irrelevancy, renders the traditional talking points and old Overton lens through which you have viewed your existence outdated and pointless.

This is an intimately psychologically threatening process for you, because it feels as if it is chaos rising. Fortunately, it is actually only order rising out of the chaos. The disturbance you feel is merely a recognition of the chaotic and inept state of the world you inhabit. But you are driven to this awakening not out of dispassionate observation of evil, but through the recognition of a pathway to a much better condition. So you have hope, and hopefully you seize it rather than to let fear dominate you. https://yuki.la/pol/107713393#p107718062


  • /pol/ frequently debates about the identity of villains in the world, recognizes that conspiracy is afoot, and so on. Is it (((they))) or the globalists or British intelligence or the freemasons?

I propose that you take a different approach. If we can prove that it is easy to make the world tremendously better over night, then you can by implication indict any and all leaders who are not achieving it. In the following posts we'll show that achieving 20%+ annual GDP growth is trivial, and therefore determine from an objective rather than subjective point of view that Obama was an anti-American traitor as well as set the bar for whether or not we should judge Trump as the same. https://yuki.la/pol/107708387#p107708606

Part 5

  • This is a blatant lie as is typical of all anti-Elevator cointelpro posts.

Can we insert material into orbit with a single elevator? Sure, all you do is accelerate your payload along the elevator to the appropriate speed so that it exchanges upward kinetic energy for gravitational potential until coming to "rest" (vertically) at geosynchronous altitude, already moving at the appropriate horizontal velocity for geosynchronous orbit - you are doing the same thing yourself just sitting on Earth.

Basically, you have a 200km long rail gun.

Alternatively, you can build an additional eccentric ring from LEO to GEO to insert with gentle acceleration, or a series (would require about 10) of orbital rings at increasingly high altitude that a series of elevators taking you all the way to geosynchronous altitude.

Finally, you can insert into orbit at any altitude by accelerating payloads along the track of the ring. https://yuki.la/pol/107708387#p107712894



  • Suppose you think that the "globalists" want to prevent Trump from making America great again.

Perhaps they will use the systemic bankrupt nature of the financial system as leverage; a crisis can be triggered at any moment that brings commerce to a halt and focuses the attention of the public on Trump as a harbinger of failure rather than success.

There is a method of attack to prevent such leverage from being exercised however. By building a space elevator, you introduce hundreds of trillions of dollars of new wealth into the economy in short order.

One way to think of this process is that it removes the bankruptcy of the present economy, therefore the leverage of the financial system. A space elevator is not valuable only as a productive enterprise, but as a tool with which to neuter potent leverage threats against those who wish to move the economy forward. https://yuki.la/pol/107716799#p107718956


  • No. Do we have problems with unrestrained capitalism? Yes. Do we have problems with a collapsing socialist state? yes. But we're seeing right now why American socialist state started to show cracks before Europe (like say when poster was posting) - Just add shitskin.

The socialist state is a bubble. They are importing shitskins to try and fund that bubble for another generation. (pic related) The trotskyist-socialsist system that (((they))) are pushing is simply running out of time. There's no way to rob from productive men and give to women and "gibs me dat" and keep the men productive. Men need the carrot of a family to provide for and higher social status to be motivated to earn and produce for society. Robbing them via taxation and using it to subsidize women's immoral degeneracy will only lead to more and more men deciding to be less productive.

http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html

The key is that we are experiencing the extreme negatives of both communism and capitalism at the same time. Not only the burst of socialist bubble like I said. But also the rot of unrestrained capitalism: Unrestrained capitalism is how we got into this mess. Oil/banking barons controlling rigged system to concentrate wealth and power at the top while the rest of us slave for worthless paper so we can pay back our 'debt' to them? Fiat currency is the ultimate tool of the jew and soon to be ushered into the ash heap of history. Unrestrained capitalism encourages societal cancer: damaging but profitable things like drugs trade, Wall St. speculation and government bureaucracy grow out of control to the detriment of society. Only something akin to National Fascist "organic society" can save us. Profit motive must remain in place to keep men productive, but profit can never be placed above the common good of society: that is treason. 1/2 https://yuki.la/pol/107753562#p107755657


  • Meanwhile, by 2050 we'll have invented much greater than human artificial General intelligence and both Nano- and Pico- engineering. We have no fucking idea what the world will look like past 2045 or so. But it won't be the jew-controlled dystopia with a permanent race-mixed beta-human slave caste like (((they))) want.

Accruing a huge national debt isn't and wasn't that big of a deal: We're borrowing from a future that will be a post scarcity economy. Worrying about the collapse of the petrodollar or the rising cost of oil is foolish when we could build an orbital ring space elevator and orbital solar power platforms worth $200 billion/year+ in profit for less than the cost of bank bailouts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qezLhypA0Y [Embed]

That's what makes america great: we are the country of innovation and determination. Everyone else in the western world is free and democratic because they copied our system. Everyone else is safe and comfortable because of innovations produced here. Like it or not, America is the country that shapes the future.

2/2 https://yuki.la/pol/107753562#p107756916

  • Most of the speculation in this thread is just downright wrong. Asteroid mining could be 1-2 years away if we want it to be. https://yuki.la/pol/107818051#p107839012

  • a space elevator would cost 450 billion dollars, much less than a year in afghanistan, and can be built with current technology, allowing us to send as much weight into space every week as we've sent into space ever. oh, and electricity would be basically fucking free. every billion invested into solar panelling on a orbital ring space elevator would yield 20 billion dollars worth of electricity over 15 years.

a single asteroid made out of nickel and coltan, as many are, can be worth a trillion dollars.

space exploration, colonization, and mining, is inevitable. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/107818051/#107873211


  • >Falling for the Overton window >Building the Space Elevator

Pick only one

Why bother debating whether it is real when it is an objective fact that it is easy to deal with it (if it were real) - all we have to do is build a space elevator. https://yuki.la/pol/108334962#p108340043


  • That is one approach, but perhaps not the best.

By building a space elevator, you immediately give mankind access to many orders of magnitude higher energy throughput than we currently possess. Solar power becomes immediately profitable and not just profitable but viable as base power.

One issue solar power has today is that it is intermittent. By placing your generating capacity in space, you can get constant, predictable, reliable power generation.

Among the many consequences of such a shift in the developmental potential of mankind is that we can operate essentially unlimited desalination plants. California can retain its desirable sunny weather, while also having as much water as anyone could possibly want.

Essentially every problem facing humanity is of this sort - easy solvable by the building of a space elevator and deployment of already existing technology. https://yuki.la/pol/108334962#p108342996


  • How would you know if free speech really existed?

It's possible to believe that it does because you have never uttered something which was prohibited. Your thinking fell within the paradigms given to you from birth, and though you may believe otherwise, nothing you uttered was deemed threatening to the regime.

One method of determining that free speech is strictly prohibited by the US regime is simply to consider the ease with which we can build a space elevator and generator 20%+ annual GDP growth. We've had this technology for decades, but continue on mired in economic malaise.

It isn't even the case that the idea is obscure. The orbital ring design was first proposed by Tesla and even was the basis of Arthur C Clark's original speculation.

Despite this, when thinking of a space elevator most people conjure up images of a counterweight beyond geosynchronous orbit and a 40,000 km tether - something that is truly impossible with today's materials.

Ask yourself: how is it possible that we went from an original design which was possible technologically possible to construct decades ago to a mass conception of space elevators in terms of an unworkable design?

This is hard evidence of systemic purging of any truly dissident thought by the US regime.

Not only are you opposed by a vast conspiracy, it is so pervasive and sinister that the most benign of truly free speech - imagining a better world - is strictly prohibited and censored. https://yuki.la/pol/108176181#p108177593


  • Rather than speculating about the state of mind of someone which we cannot know (Trump) we can instead focus our attention on what is objectively possible. If GDP can be grown at 20% but we are given 4%, that by itself is proof that there is a conspiracy afoot. https://yuki.la/pol/108137808#p108141846

  • Suppose it is all true. There is a banking collapse or something coming and they will try to blame it all on him / nationalism / whatever.

Well, building a space elevator takes this off the table. Why? Because it injects hundreds of trillions of dollars of new wealth into the system. It allows the US to retire the national debt, to free itself from the money lenders.

We have in hand all that is necessary to drive a renaissance in technological terms. The question is - will you demand it as a player on the stage or remain in the audience? https://yuki.la/pol/108137808#p108143317

Part 6

  • >His single purpose in life .... is to make humanity a multiplanetary species

Except that this is obviously false. We have the ability to colonize Mars today, but not by following the roadmap outlined by Musk.

Musk proposes that we resign ourselves to leaving Earth via rockets, that is to say, he insists that leaving Earth should always be extremely expensive and therefore rare and without much self-sustaining economic rationale.

Instead, we should be pursuing the fact that a space elevator is both technologically possible and extremely cheap today https://yuki.la/pol/108097762#p108119220


  • Here you can see why the fraud perpetrated by the likes of Elon Musk is so important to maintaining the status quo for the regime.

The desire for mankind to reach to the stars, to strive for something greater has to be subverted because this desire immediately leads to an unburdening of the species of the weight of governments.

Not only is a space elevator possible today, building a space elevator leads immediately to massive economic growth, obviates the need for taxation, unburdens the world of the debt-scheme frauds, and so on.

In short, proper dreaming of reaching for the stars frees mankind in a broadly systemic way. Therefore your attention must be directed away from what can work in a self-sustaining and profitable way towards ultimately pointless one-off endeavors like brief visits to Mars with no schema for supporting sustainable adventure.

People like Musk and their misdirection can only thrive in an environment of ignorance though. Relieve yourself of it, and then do the same to others. https://yuki.la/pol/108097762#p108120176


  • (Not sure if this is SE or not as sometimes he posts under different IDs) actually, they haven;t. Elon musk is a bit like an autistic steve jobs - great motivator, clever, but not brilliant, and neither are his engineers necessarily.

A lot of the work on space-X engines was done on (quietly negotiated) contract , their rocket design is really nothing to write home about, and the whole landing-vertical thing is a bit of a meme, though that's a longer story with a deep technical background and years of internal gov't-run-space-agency arguments.

as for Tesla, literally the only thing unique about it is the battery pack using consumer electronic spec small cells. there are arguments against this being a good idea as well, and there is a good reason that the some 100,000+ engineers in the auto industry still aren't hopping on that particular bandwagon.

also, the home batteries are fucking retarded. they're literally designed to take adavantage of electric company pricing policies. guess what happens when a bunch of people use them - companies change their policies, and then they're just useless. https://yuki.la/pol/108097762#p108131856


  • (Not sure if this is SE or not as sometimes he posts under different IDs) >how quickly development happens

development doesn't happen quickly.

Optimization happens quickly. Idea-Mixing is fast.

fundamental R&D takes decades.

the things that we as consumers enjoy today are almost universally 60-50 years old. in some cases, "cutting edge" technologies existed in laboratories as long as 90 years ago.

the list includes -

-Cellular phones - concept is now over 70 years old, early prototypes were 40 years ago. -Solid State electronics - the physics were understood as far back as 100 years ago, and simple transistor-like assemblies existed by the 1930's -LED's - effect discovered 110 years ago, first real honest-to-god LED is 90 years old. -Photovoltaics - over 1110 years old, consumer grade is over 50 years old, efficiency of consumer grade PV's has not improved significantly since then. the 20 - 30% efficiencies being reported in labs are expected to take 15 - 20 years to reach market. -3D printing - deposition of adhesive coated spheres dates back to the 1960's, UV cured polymer Stereolitography was being done in labs a short while later, some 45 - 50 years ago. -Electric Cars - over 110 years old. early electric cars were actually significantly better than early gas cars.

so basically, all of this shit we think of as being amazing has been in the academic sphere for almost a century in many cases. the thing that allows technology to advance, and the biggest Boon to progress in this century has been the awakening of the public to things long forgotten or considered un-economic.

More to the point with your roof tiles - those tiles aren;t very efficient, they cost a fuckload compared to traditional roofing, and they have to be replaced and maintained before you break even with being "on the grid" this is true world-round. Never mind that they're still an intermittent energy solution at best, and they they consume tons of oil to produce, and that the Chinese control the poly silicon market https://yuki.la/pol/108097762#p108134872


  • >muh freedom

This is not actually how it happened though.

The US Government gave a monopoly on mail service to the USPS. The fees charged by USPS, above what private competition attempted to provide, were used to pay for roads. The government banned competition in the postal domain.

The government instituted a national bank and embarked on the largest infrastructure projects ever like the Cumberland pass and Erie canal.

These projects were kicked into higher gear with the transcontinental railway and eventually mass highway construction, hydroelectric power, rural electrification, and so on that gave birth to the first majority middle class.

If you know how this happened, you are most of the way to making it happen again. Empty slogans like "muh freedumbz" didn't do it - rational, thoughtful, and epic scale productive infrastructure investments did.

Can we repeat this process today? https://yuki.la/pol/107943983#p107952582


  • The rings are the counterweights. It is very similar to a firehose or those jetpacks that you may have seen recently for flying around above the water, but you never run out of "water" because it loops back around. https://yuki.la/pol/107942846#p107945939

  • A lot of people are turned off by a direct approach. Try this instead. If you could demonstrate (as I will in the following posts) that it is extremely easy for us to generate 20%+ GDP growth year after year, then you have implicitly convinced the listener of a vast conspiracy opposing them. They will come to this conclusion on their own, only later realizing that you led them there gently and expertly. https://yuki.la/pol/107944491#p107945351

  • >won't be able

This is nonsense. Trump can generate 20%+ annual GDP growth by building a space elevator. We've had the technology to do this for decades.

If Trump gives you 5% growth, cointelpro media will hail it is a victory. But in actual fact it would be nothing more than the establishment calculating that the masses need to be placated because real change is bubbling up.

We know this because 5% GDP growth is nothing compared to what we can trivially generate with decades old technology. https://yuki.la/pol/108940483#p108941544


  • /pol/ does some very interesting things that have more depth than many of you realize. Downplaying Hitler or the 6 gorillion for example.

How is this significant?

The most shocking thing about Hitler is that he didn’t actually kill any jews. Literally, he did not place a single one into a gas chamber or fire a single shot at a jew. It was the foot soldier, the army captain or the SS guard: it could have been you, or your neighbor. The potential for evil lurks within you and those that you love: the demonic archetype not only lacks a monopoly on evil, it isn’t even the actual source - YOU ARE. https://yuki.la/pol/108874678#p108876158


  • But herein lies the happy red pill too. You have within yourself the potential for agency. To do things, to shape the world, to imagine and bring thoughts to life.

If we wanted to blue pill the masses, the Hitler is evil meme is among the best to employ. Not because millions of people didn’t die, but because YOU ARE in fact the Hitler mythos: you too can bring your ideology to bear upon the world, you too can radically transform the world.

The question before you, the difference between taking the red pill and the blue pill, is whether you will view evil as a potentiality or an eventuality. Will you embrace agency or fatalism? And what choices will you make if you decide be a transcendent being exercising agency? https://yuki.la/pol/108874678#p108876234


  • When the truth of the fact that YOU ARE has truly entered into your mind, when you have finally begun to be red pilled, the world will look radically different than the shitposts in pictures two and three of this thread. With your imagination and agency restored, you will come to realize that poverty or hunger or disease are choices that we make, not inherent parts of reality. https://yuki.la/pol/108874678#p108876300

  • Perhaps it isn't true, but there is some implication in your post that you are not even remotely close to red pilled.

Balanced budgets? You mean spend what we tax?

Well, it turns out that we can reduce all taxes to zero, pay off the national debt, and maintain current spending levels.

If you are not on this level, you have not even begun to be red pilled much less absorbed it. https://yuki.la/pol/108853371#p108861431

Part 7

  • The reason Peterson was conciliatory runs much deeper than this. Jordan is obsessed with the rise of catastrophe in the early 20th century.

He traces this to the unmooring of society to religious tradition. People throughout human history have always believed in an afterlife. They strived to perfection in this life in order to be worthy of the next. Their truth, that they must do the best that they can today in order to secure tomorrow, governed all.

The rise of scientific materialism and skepticism about the next life reeked havoc on the psyches of mankind. If there is no afterlife, you have lost your reason to perfect this life. The motivation for action has come unhinged.

Now, even the atheistfags saw this as an obvious problem. So, they began to try to establish a new moral dogma based on rational materialism. https://yuki.la/pol/108723203#p108748671


  • What Nietzsche could perceive so far in advance, and a problem that Peterson also discerns but Sam cannot, is that in all the endeavor to create a new moral dogma one of two things would be true:

(1) we'd establish the old moral dogma but just wrap it in slightly different words

(2) our moral dogma would change significantly

Now, the folks like Sam cannot tolerate (1) because in their minds God is dead, never to return. The reestablishment of the moral dogma in society MUST be substantially different than the old in order to assuage themselves of their belief that God is not dead, that he has not been resurrected in another name.

The problem here is that because we already had a moral dogma we agreed on and any significantly different new moral dogma will by definition be morally repugnant to us today.

In other words, if the rationalist project to reorient the genesis of the moral code is to be of any consequence, that is to say, to differ in any noteworthy way from the inherited morality (religion) then it by necessity is going to differ in at least one substantial way: it will be repugnant to the morality we all already agree on. Nietzsche was able to predict the catastrophes of the early 20th century because it was an inevitability of Sam's worldview, not just a possible result. https://yuki.la/pol/108723203#p108748735


  • In other words, the endeavor that folks like Sam are engaged in must do one of two things: lead them back to God, or be morally repugnant.

Well, there is a third option. We can trick them into going back to God by renaming it without them noticing. That is exactly what Nietzsche attempted to do in proposing the Ubermensch.

When Nietzsche declared that God was dead and described the problem

God is dead. God remains dead. And we have killed him.

”How shall we comfort ourselves, the murderers of all murderers? What was holiest and mightiest of all that the world has yet owned has bled to death under our knives: who will wipe this blood off us? What water is there for us to clean ourselves? What festivals of atonement, what sacred games shall we have to invent? Is not the greatness of this deed too great for us? Must we ourselves not become gods simply to appear worthy of it? There has never been a greater deed

he says basically what I have just told you, that we must create a new name for God - the Ubermensch.

How can we tell that this sleight of hand invented by Nietzsche worked on Sam?

Well, Sam’s “great work” or claim to fame is his book “The Moral Landscape” in which he declares that the elevation of consciousness should be the new moral bedrock principle which happens to be exactly what Nietzsche was trying to program people like him into doing:

What is the greatest experience you can have? It is the hour of the great contempt. The hour when your happiness, too, arouses your disgust, and even your reason and your virtue.

It isn’t disgust or happiness (or anything between) that is the greatest experience. It is the experience of experience: consciousness. https://yuki.la/pol/108723203#p108748815


  • To sum up, the pseudo-intellectuals that we can typify with the example of Sam Harris (atheistfags in general) revel in their perception of glory that God has been slain in their minds. Yet, it is necessary that they return to God consciously (our societal moral dogma) or human catastrophe is inevitable (significant divergence from the inherited religious morality) - unless we can trick them into returning to God by another name. To do this, we encourage them to do exactly as Sam has done.

THIS is why Peterson is so reluctant to break down Sam’s worldview. He knows that it was crafted not by Sam, but as a sleight of hand, a trick played upon Sam, by Nietzsche in order to spare the world of the human catastrophe that results from the errors of the atheistfags or Sam Harris losers of the world. https://yuki.la/pol/108723203#p108748868


  • At the same time, Peterson is still going for the win - he just conceptualizes winning differently.

You see, Peterson is a moral being. He embraces the moral dogma. He is religious.

Sam is irreligious and therefore fundamentally immoral. He is thus prone to be the progenitor of human catastrophe, which, if realized, is a loss by Peterson's score keeping. https://yuki.la/pol/108723203#p108750809


  • This is the correct way of seeing things and in fact exactly how Nietzsche put it:

All beings so far have created something beyond themselves ...

Man is a rope, tied between beast and overman - a rope over an abyss... What is great in man is that he is a bridge and not an end: what can be loved in man is that he is an overture and a going under...

It thus becomes pretty clear that a characterization of Nietzsche as an esoteric Christian is quite obvious and sound. The irony is rich indeed how opposite the general perception is. https://yuki.la/pol/108723203#p108751302


  • You might call it the ideology of the Morning Star, a name given to Lucifer and adopted by Jesus:

I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star. https://yuki.la/pol/108709096#p108712656


  • Shining the light breaks programming, so it is not just the programmers but also those who conceal their lamps behind shades that bear responsibility.

The fake red pill posts I started the thread with sort of encouraged people to withdraw from society and the public sphere, promoted the idea that people are not ready for the truth.

But, people yearn to go to space, to explore the universe, to make Mars a second home. These are magical, desirable yearnings that are also within our reach.

As such, really shinning the light will be met with love and interest by the "normies." https://yuki.la/pol/108709096#p108718446


  • Regardless of how you see climate change, people can agree that the modus operandi of the regime is to seize the perception of crisis to further their own agendas.

Should climate change (presuming it to be real, as a thought experiment at least for those who disagree) be met with carbon taxes? Or is there a better way?

It turns out we can solve climate change for less than $100/person, less than estimated annual carbon taxes. After outlining such a solution, we know that the regime's carbon tax policy is a fraud and more importantly have in hand objective criteria by which to prove this to others. https://yuki.la/pol/108498551#p108508322


  • Suppose there was a vast, organized conspiracy.

If you could prove it directly, it wouldn't be so impressive after all, right?

Yet this is exactly what all conspiracy media purports to be trying to do (and also how you can tell they are all, 100% cointelpro).

Try a different approach.

What would the world look like if free speech was a thing? How would you know if you had it?

It seems intuitively obvious that you do - you can say what you want.

But, without trying to say anything and everything, you haven't really eliminated the possibility that there is no free speech - you've only shown that the things you try to say are not controlled.

So while it is difficult to prove there IS free speech, it might not be so hard to show that there is NOT free speech.

Consider, for example, the fact that a space elevator has been technologically achievable for decades. Having a space elevator solves almost all of mankind's problems: energy, water, hunger, debt, poverty, allows taxes to be cut to 0%, and so on.

Reviewing the following posts will show this to you. Combine your new knowledge with the fact that no one talks about this, that the governments of the world do not solve easily solvable problems, and you have proven a vast conspiracy in as direct a way as such a thing is possible. https://yuki.la/pol/108370691#p108372562


  • Climate change is a trivial problem because we are going to build a space elevator.

With an elevator in hand, mitigation of climate change with something like a sun shade costs around $100 million.

If we assume the space elevator is good for nothing other than climate change mitigation, and purchase it for $430B solely to build a sun shade.

People who advocate for drastic reductions in CO2 emissions will project at least 20% increases in the price of energy. Let's only consider the cost of grid electric power. We currently spend about $600B per year on electric power from the grid.

A 20% increase in cost amounts to $120B per year. In other words, a mere four years of what the anti-carbon activists want us to accept is enough to pay for an alternative solution. https://yuki.la/pol/109146793#p109154927



Part 8

  • Ron Paul is objectively wrong.

He is preaching the fatalism of the world order.

Oh noes, the debt is too big. We must have a collapse! It's not just necessary but good for you! (hehehehe)

But, we will prove this all to be bullshit. https://yuki.la/pol/109073937#p109078301


  • Did you skip the part in history class where the surge in atheism led to multiple world wars and hundreds of millions of dead at the hands of nihilistic governments?

Do you not realize that the construction of the cathedrals is what produced the enlightenment? The skilled labor, artisans, mathematicians and so on necessary for such grandiose endeavors that only religion could move man to embark upon are all thanks to religion. The enlightenment, therefore, is thanks to religion.

But your professor told you the enlightenment was a conquering of it. And you believed it, because you've never thought for yourself in your life.

Pathetic, but so it goes with the irreligious. https://yuki.la/pol/109439440#p109450637


  • This is what happens when you become an Obamatard (or Trumptard)

how does doubling our energy supply help the economy how does doubling our national income help the economy

It's time to stop pretending that Trump is anything other than what we've seen before: a slight modification of the status quo to continually co-opt whoever is the most uppity at the time.

If you are being taxed, you are being had. Proof has already been provided in the thread. Will Trump tax you? Then Trump is a fraud. https://yuki.la/pol/110391001#p110401082


  • When we build the space elevator we will get rid of free floating satellites. Orbital rings can be built at any altitude and any inclination, so we'd just hook payloads to the ring structures wherever we want them and let them hang in place rather than orbit.

After the first orbital ring elevator (around $450B), successive rings cost only about $1-2B a piece.

It takes about 10 sequential rings to reach geosynchronous altitude if you are using kevlar as your elevator material between rings, so we'd want at least 10 rings.

If you to be able to move anywhere on Earth quickly, we might eventually want something like 100 east-west rings and 100 north-south rings.

If you'd like to travel from Los Angeles to Sydney, then you just go up an elevator in LA, traverse the ring system in space, and back down an elevator in Sydney. All of this is essentially free because you recover your climbing energy in LA on the descent in Sydney and similarly recover your acceleration around the Earth in the deceleration phase.

At a comfy 1g of acceleration, the ride up an elevator to 300km orbital ring height takes around 5 minutes.

Traversing the orbital ring system over some ~14,000 km would require a further 40 minutes.

At about 95% efficiency in recovering energy, that would put the marginal cost of a sub-one hour trip between LA and Sydney at something like $100 allowing for payload size of 1200 kg / person (similar to major airliners). https://yuki.la/pol/110344964#p110356711


  • Infowars is a cointelpro operation designed to sweep up anyone who drifts from the usual propaganda outlets. They shitpost all over the web all day everyday.

When is the last time you heard the humble water filter salesman talking about a solution to anything?

Right - never. Fear porn to get you incapacitated. Permission from the regime to say one or two true things so that he has a bit of credibility to mix in deeper lies.

but anon, solutions are hard

No, they are shockingly easy. Hard to find other people talking about them because free speech is strictly prohibited in the USA but easy if you look on your own. https://yuki.la/pol/109898617#p109909245


  • OP, let's suppose you are right and that they "globalists" are working in our best interests.

Why would they force the economy into sluggish growth, massive pollution, and so on, priming the pump for blowback instead of building a space elevator that can unite mankind reaching for the stars while delivering 20%+ GDP growth?

Because the conspiracy is sinister. There is no other explanation. So you need to delve deeper into what is really going on. https://yuki.la/pol/109884560#p109891403


  • Something that isn't obvious to many is that there is no push for a "new world order."

It has always been about fragmenting the nationstate into smaller and smaller enclaves that are powerless against transnational corporations and usurious oligarchs.

It is the perpetuation of the old world order.

What do you do if you want to defeat these people?

Unify the nationstate around non-partisan productive endeavor. Build the space elevator. Eliminate the debt. Get the usurers off of the backs of mankind. https://yuki.la/pol/109727735#p109744878


  • We have ~1500 mile long distance high voltage transmission lines in operation.

It's only a couple hundred miles up to LEO.

In the future, if you wish to preserve credibility, you will have to remain silent. https://yuki.la/pol/109727735#p109746636


  • Trump is not even remotely close to being in the ballpark of a good president yet. We have the ability to deliver 20%+ annual GDP growth. Cut your taxes to zero without slashing any spending and pay off the debt all at once. Epic possibilities only in the sense they are outside what you are use to thinking possible, but trivial in that we've had this ability for decades.

You might prefer a shit sandwich over a turd sandwich if you've only ever had crap to eat, but if you are a conscious human being (i.e. cognizant of the possibilities that a space elevator or other projects implies) then saying Trump is anything but a disaster is like setting aside the buffet of delicacies because you prefer to gobble shit or turd. It's a joke, no one of good mind has any basis to praise Obama, Hillary, Trump, or indeed any single public persona on the planet because every last one of them is lying their ass off to you and trying to prevent your future from arriving. https://yuki.la/pol/109703377#p109708032


  • Congress has made the president a de facto dictatorial position with emergency measure laws. Trump can declare anything he wants an emergency and say he has to spend $450B to fix it via construction of a space elevator.

Or, just send a few marines to Janet's office and say you are going to print $450B and spend it ona space elevator.

There are of course a variety of other ways he could do it, too many to enumerate.

The point is you are a faggot that is being cucked by a terrible (typical) politician and the proof is in the difference between what is trivially possible versus the shit sandwich you are lapping up like a good dog. https://yuki.la/pol/109703377#p109709379


  • Not an argument.

No one disapproves of us reaching for the stars if we can do it except a small minority establishment.

Especially true that no one disapproves of reaching for the stars in a way that not only pays for itself, but allows us to cut taxes to 0%, eliminate the debt, and not even have to bother cutting spending.

Simply, 100% of the public of good will (perhaps only 98-99% of us) is behind this, so any president that had any desire to do good could force the hands of Congress by demanding it through the normal appropriations process.

In other words, you are maximally cucked and trying to rationalize that fact away - and failing. https://yuki.la/pol/109703377#p109711806



  • I'll add to that though. Don't want to just make a poopoo response.

Since our energy use is comparable to what it takes to generate a protective magnetic field, we can do really interesting things on Mars.

You may be aware that it doesn't have a similar protective shield - a big problem for colonization.

But, we can fix that. If you just run superconducting lines around Mars and pump your energy through them before distribution to end use points, and the energy throughput of your colony on Mars was somewhere close to that of Earth's then you'd have all the magnetic field you need.

Once you have a space elevator on Earth, it only costs you a few billion to get one on Mars. And once you have one on Mars, scaling up the energy throughput of colonies there to something like Earth is trivial.

In other words, we can terraform Mars. Have all the technology necessary already. https://yuki.la/pol/109703377#p109738264


  • Do you think it is worthwhile to debate the relative merits of a shit or turd sandwich?

To frame the discussion of Trump properly, we shouldn't be interested so much in his merits relative to other presidents but rather relative to what is straightforwardly possible. https://yuki.la/pol/110518694#p110519927


  • He might have it temporarily, but he won't keep it unless he starts doing his job.

The fact that we can achieve 20%+ GDP growth is in the public domain.

Anyone who doesn't deliver it can therefore be judged as:

(1) a puppet who should resign in shame

(2) a sinister agent who should be hung in the public square

Either way, not good. https://yuki.la/pol/111361659#p111365618


  • It is better to judge the news as fake or not in terms of what they don't say rather than the ratio of lies:truth in what they do say. It's the stuff that is omitted that really matters. https://yuki.la/pol/111363530#p111364870

Part 9

  • Is it really true that Trump calls his own shots?

We'll demonstrate in the following posts that the technology is on the table for the US to experience prolonged 20%+ GDP growth.

Because Trump has done nothing to set us on the course for this, despite it being a trivial matter, we will then be forced to conclude either:

(1) he is a sinister fraud and doesn't want you to have high economic growth

(2) he is not a "real" president and doesn't have the ability to deliver on even easy stuff - he doesn't call the shots, doesn't deserve any respect https://yuki.la/pol/111357116#p111364132


  • There is little reason to keep orbiting satellites when you have orbital rings and elevators. You can just hang the satellites from the ring wherever you want them.

As far as the elevator extending up and beyond GEO, no. We have no materials strong enough for tethers of this length. The first elevator would only go to ~300km or so.

If you want to reach GEO you have two options:

(1) use the ~300km elevator as a railgun and have your projectiles leave with sufficient velocity to climb that high. This is impractical for humans to make it to GEO however because the g-forces required are too high.

(2) build a series of rings. If kevlar is our elevator material, you need about 10 orbital rings to climb all the way to GEO altitude. The spacing between each can be successively greater despite material strength being constant because gravity gets weaker as you go up.

Conveniently, the 2nd-10th ring are super cheap to deploy once you have the first because of the physics described in (1): you can use one of your elevators on the first ring as a railgun platform to fire material into GEO for your "10th" (2nd to be built, 10th highest in the end) ring. Then you have an elevator from GEO down to several thousand kilometers below GEO which you can use to lower the material from the 10th ring down to the desired position for the 9th, and so on.

End result is you have 10 rings, each connected by kevlar based elevators between them, on which you can transport any material to GEO including humans at comfortable g-forces (arbitrarily low). https://yuki.la/pol/111357719#p111363090


  • Wrong approach, OP.

You can never enumerate what not to do. We could go on with the sort of process you are suggesting until the heat death of the universe.

The productive point of interest is what you should do. https://yuki.la/pol/112476775#p112500495

  • The US economy is built on financial imperialism, not capitalism.

Capitalism is about the deployment of capital to generate new capital, favoring those methods of capital deployment with the highest differential reproductive rate.

Financial imperialism is about spreading debt constrained only by the extent to which some strongman can enforce collection of the debt.

Here's an example of capitalism (which solves the issue of how to pay for health care, naturally) https://yuki.la/pol/112455467#p112464930


  • The only useful way to think about economics is how do you produce more from what you have.

I'll outline an easy, tangible, concrete path towards 20%+ GDP growth, well beyond anything that any school of thought in the public domain offers you. Importantly, it won't depend upon abstractions or theories (lower/higher taxes), only actionable (and falsifiable!) plan. https://yuki.la/pol/112329192#p112335209


  • He does indeed say this, but simply stating it in the abstract is of no utility to anyone.

Here you have the technology laid out before you. I've broken the seal of secrecy for you, something that Alex has been unable (lied about knowing such things existed) to do or unwilling to do (coward, controlled opposition, etc.).

Because you have a point of reference for truth telling now, you can dismiss alternative, obvious frauds. https://yuki.la/pol/112297612#p112302219


  • Whether it is or not, you'd not be able to tell based on me telling you so. One of the first principles of anonymous boards is that you should judge by the merits of what is said, not the identity of the sayer. With that in mind, you might as well go ahead and ask what you wanted to ask and see what kind of response you get. https://yuki.la/pol/112297612#p112302961

  • (1) Note that society has an energy throughput deficiency. This manifests in a variety of ways like polluted water, dumps, inadequate food, housing, health care and so on. Billions of lives are negatively impacted and death is widespread because of it.

(2) Note that we have the ability to solve the energy throughput deficiency, but Trump has done nothing to make it happen.

(3) Conclude that Trump is a genocidal freak and enemy of mankind like all other politicians. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112162595


  • This has the pretense of being an interesting line of thought but really is no such thing.

Ultimately, we would like to drive the price of everything down to zero. That is to say, we'd like to live in a post-scarcity society where you can have what you want.

Collapsing the price of input commodities is among the greatest achievements that mankind can strive towards. It means you in turn collapse the prices of food, housing, health care, cars, whatever. This is where we want to go.

How you want to account for the value of such achievements is essentially a semantic game. One could hypothesize a post-scarcity society where prices across all commodities are zero and say, aha! the market no longer delivers any value! Or something less extreme, a world nearing post-scarcity and therefore systemic downtrends of prices towards zero and thus a semantic trick available of saying 'less' value is being delivered by noting falling prices. But obviously this is absurd, and you are doing the same sort of thing. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112167936


  • Again, pretending to be interesting but obviously not.

By deploying a space elevator and solar generation, we can produce energy at costs about 30x lower than prevailing market rates.

Nothing compels us to sell at the acquisition cost however. If we sell power at 15x the cost of acquisition, that is still undercutting the current generators by 50% while retaining hundreds of billions of profit from the US market. Global energy consumption is around $9T per year, so we could profit in excess of $4T per year by selling at half of the current price.

Of course, the more nuanced view is even better for us. By slashing energy prices 50%, consumption would increase dramatically. Because we have the cheapest form of energy available, 100% of this growth in consumption represents growth in the profitability of the project which already has a baseline of many trillions of dollars in benefit per year. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112171786


  • It's nice of you to concede that the economic potential is so great that it severely disrupts geopolitics.

You're right about the monumental significance and that is precisely why we should do it. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112175580


  • I find it hard to believe that you are serious.

The market is willing to pay trillions of dollars per year for a commodity which we can produce for 30x less than the going rate.

You are asking why is selling donuts for $1 when they cost $0.10 is a profitable venture. If you'd like to pose a serious question, I'd be happy to answer it but you are not presently doing it. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112178348


  • The US already does this in effect - it is called the petrodollar regime. We force the world to trade energy supplies in dollars, propping up the value of the dollar, which we in turn use to effectively skim a cut off of every transaction for free.

The present circumstances of world geopolitics in other words is that the US is committing highway robbery by force.

The only real geopolitical shift we are talking about is one of mutually improved circumstances, i.e., energy is cheaper and more abundant for us all. The usury class and the degenerate politicians who depend upon economic hardship to suppress and distract the masses would be in serious trouble, but no one else really. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112184017


  • The notion that Russia or China is going to nuke our infrastructure is just as absurd, if not more so, than the idea that they are going to nuke D.C.

As to power delivery, the existence of elevators means you can run power transmission lines down to Earth in addition to microwave beams. Either is perfectly fine and highly profitable. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112184434


  • We already do this, except not with energy but rather with most manufactured goods.

The world is already operating in the way you are suggesting is impossible. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112185007


  • Your points are of no consequence. The portion of trade conducted in dollars throughout the world is about 2/3, rising to about 95% if you include a couple geopolitically inseparable entities like the EU/Euro and British/Pound.

The world reserve currency enforced by military supremacy is a geopolitical reality regardless of a handful of transactions outside the domain. In other words, the enforcement of US trade superiority by force is already the way in which the world works, so suggesting that the project is not viable because we can't act unilaterally is laughably absurd. We already do it. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112185740


Part 10

  • The US does indeed have low moral credibility in the world, but reorienting our developmental goals in this way would only raise the credibility. Vastly increasing the energy throughput of the world economy is the same thing as eliminating poverty, hunger, homeless, and so on. We have the power to drive economic growth levels not yet known to mankind and restore the moral standing of the US in the world as a direct result of billions of lives being markedly improved. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112186131

  • Let's just put it this way. China has no choice in the matter. If they do not want cheaper energy from us, then we sell to someone else who can in turn produce cheaper goods than they can. Thus, China sacrifices its export market by declining the cheapest energy available (from us). This is a decision that they cannot make. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112186761

  • (1) We have no reason to cut off the power.

(2) The world has no choice but to accept the dictation of the US regime owing to military supremacy

(3) More importantly, the whole point here is shifting towards a more mutually beneficial paradigm which is good for us all anyway, so there is no reason to resist

We need not be slaves to the errors of the past. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112187467


  • > I absolutely believe that China and/or Russia would attack our energy infrastructure if we set out to collapse their economy unless they yielded to our interests.

We forgive your ignorance then. The US has already done this to Russia after the Cold War when we flew in literal planeloads of cocaine cash to buy off the mob and seized control of all of their major state industry.

Nuclear powers bend the knee to US economic warfare. This is not merely a description of potentiality in the future, but a description of things which have already occurred.

Your point of view is not grounded in reality. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112188884


  • >>112187657 I concur.

112188638 There is no reason to invade anyone.

If China declines to purchase cheap energy, we sell to Nigeria who can now produce goods cheaper than the shops in China. China collapses as a result.

They have no choice in the matter.

Fortunately, we wouldn't be asking them to accept anything bad. It is to their advantage and ours that the world's energy is more abundant. https://yuki.la/pol/112161518#p112189171


-If you are not fighting for something, you might just fall for anything. https://yuki.la/pol/111501735#p111501900


  • Do you think there is infrastructure that the US could build that is worth more than it costs?

If so, that is basically an income stream for the government right?

Suppose you want to win 99% of the vote in an election. That's easy. Just start building enough profitable stuff so that the value you extract is about $3T more than what you put in each year: now you don't need to tax the people anymore, because you generate the funds from helping them.

Not only do people have 0% taxes, get to spend more, consume more, do more - but they also have better infrastructure to facilitate all of this.

Booming economy. Virtually everyone happy.

This is what any legitimate president can do. If you are not seeing this, you know you are seeing a fraud. https://yuki.la/pol/111457937#p111464790


  • 1. cuck
  • cuck
  • cuck
  • cuck

How do we know? Because we can prove they could've done better but didn't. https://yuki.la/pol/111367986#p111369435


  • Hey OP, consider this:

What if we had some technology on the shelf that could generate tens of trillions of dollars of revenue for us every year? We're talking about 50k, 100k per person within just a few years.

No one would mind paying for everyone to have health care at that point. Almost more money than we know what to do with.

And guess what? We do in fact have this technology on the shelf. We've had it for decades.

Now, in the next few posts I am going to outline that for you. You'll be forced to recognize the following:

(1) Bernie never really wanted to make it easy for you to get health care because he had an easy path to do it but never spoke of it

(2) He is a total cuck, threatened from speaking plain truth that anyone would get behind, and not man enough to speak out despite the threats

Either way, you can't keep feeling the bern. https://yuki.la/pol/111367540#p111369001


  • The real problem with the media is not their ratio of lies/truth, but rather what they don't say.

Does a fake poll matter compared to not reporting on pedophile rings?

But, the same logic applies to Trump. If we have the ability to deliver 20% GDP growth and Trump is wasting his time yapping on about distractions, then we need to reach one of only a few conclusions:

(1) he is legitimately retarded

(2) he is actively working against us

(3) he wants to do good but can't because he is cucked by higher powers - he'd rather watch billions suffer needlessly than take the personal risk to speak this truth and should therefore by rejected as a pathetic individual https://yuki.la/pol/111365714#p111367765


  • This is just silly rationalization. He can neuter all his opposition in the general public with one speech but explaining how we're going to make america great again. There is a clear, obvious, and decades only mechanism here for eliminating the debt, slashing taxes to 0%, and even being able to pay for healthcare/etc. for the poor (or everyone), even have the government write you a check each year instead of the other way around. This is the stuff of overnight 99% approval ratings.

The only reason you don't do this is if you are scheming against the public, working with the old establishment. https://yuki.la/pol/111365714#p111386022


  • Sure.

Think about the things you were promised.

The end of suffering. Death will be no more. A message from the clouds. A king will walk amongst kings.

It's not hard to imagine how all of this comes from a space elevator. Not just the space elevator, but certainly from the trajectory that it sets you on. https://yuki.la/pol/112765537#p112771419


  • This is the goal of the establishment of course.

The central question facing us is whether the opposition that emerges will be controlled on meaningless lines (identity politics) or will manifest as uncontrolled opposition, i.e., based upon the ideas and values that can move civilization forward.

We have the power to build a better world and are not currently. People are rightly and justly angered, even to the point of violence. But the threat or application of violence cannot and should not be the end in itself. It must be accompanied by visions of a better future. https://yuki.la/pol/112750777#p112762048


  • Yes.

Pretty much any problem you name has a solution in the context of the space elevator.

Every single debate you see should be met with the mental response: 'how does the space elevator solve this?'

Take the Cruz/Sanders debate over health care. Cruz is right that present circumstances do not afford the wealth to give everyone high quality care. Sanders is right that we should give everyone high quality care.

Both of them are deeply morally depraved individuals, however, because neither mentions the space elevator and therefore the economic capacity to manifest our moral desire.

Describing the world as it is (Cruz) or as you wish it to be (Sanders) is empty rhetoric. Describing the world as it could be (Space Elevator) and therefore describing action to do better is the only moral position. https://yuki.la/pol/112750777#p112765471


  • OP is controlled opposition.

Uncontrolled opposition is naming the solutions, not naming the problems.

If you have solutions to problems, it doesn't matter who is causing the problems.

Want to defeat (((the bankers)))? We don't need to consider who is behind the ((())) if we can kill the debt. So, here is a way you can kill the debt https://yuki.la/pol/112648449#p112654288


  • Bannon is a Goldman Sachs banker that pushes a narrative similar to Ron Paul, i.e., we have to cut off Social Security, food stamps, etc., in order to save the economy.

The basic idea is we have trillions of dollars in "unfunded" liabilities and it is some sort of "mathematical fact" that we can never pay them.

Unfortunately, there are only two people who can say shit like this. The retarded, and the deceitful.

How do we know this? Well, one way to take care of unfunded liabilities (i.e. a capital shortfall) is simply to deploy some capital that you have for profit. This is the natural, obvious path of action to any sensible human being but you will never hear it uttered by people who wish to break the back of America (Bannon and his Goldman Sachs buddies, for example). https://yuki.la/pol/112636246#p112642337


  • (1) The space elevator is a legitimate infrastructure project that would reshape nearly every aspect of our society for the better. This fact alone exposes those in power as evildoers for they retain power via suppression. However, presently, the space elevator serves as a MEME to shatter one's Overton Window and therefore inspire a restoration of consciousness on Earth. The realization of the infrastructure project depends first on the extent to which the MEME first infiltrates and subverts the minds of its hearers. Agreed?

(2) If I am the 100th monkey then my role is to leverage "meme-magic" toward greater awakening within my sphere of influence. How broadly, in theory, does a Man's so-called "sphere" extend? https://yuki.la/pol/112505745#p112506404

Part 11

  • Wrong. I'll tell you how he can get 90%+ approval ratings overnight. The only reason Trump is a controversial figure is because he WANTS to be controversial. Establishment figures always protect the left-right paradigm.

The proper way to evaluate someone is in terms of what they can do, not so much what they are doing. Context matters in other words.

We don't get as upset at someone for messing up with Down's syndrome as we do a 'normal' adult.

OK, so where is this analogy going. When you want to evaluate a politician, you need to think of what they are doing in the context of what can be done rather than the context of what their "opponent" is doing. It is the difference between the left-right paradigm (fake CIA shit) and the full spectrum.

We have today, and have had for decades, the ability to build a space elevator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qezLhypA0Y [Embed]

http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-I.pdf

It cost less than $500B to build and it is easy to see how it is worth hundreds of trillions of dollars. Solar power delivering base load capacity at less than $0.01/kwh, asteroid mineral wealth, semiconductor manufacturing or protein synthesis in space. Tens of trillions of dollars in new efficiencies, tens trillions of dollars in new industries, tens of trillions of dollars in new material wealth.

It becomes immediately obvious that the national debt, taxes, how to pay for health care, etc. is just a big hoax. We can afford to cut taxes to 0% across the board, pay for everyone's health care, and get rid of the national debt all at once.

So anytime you see a politician, you can tell immediately if they are fake based on simple criteria like are my taxes cut to 0% yet? Is the national debt gone? Have the debates ended over how to pay for basic survival necessities? Are our energy problems a thing of the past?

If not, you are being lead by a wolf, not a fellow human being of good will. https://yuki.la/pol/113504079#p113505322


  • Anyone with the wealth of Bill Gates can bring attention to any idea that he wants. Furthermore, we know he has heard most ideas, especially ones that have been on the books for decades.

Consider, for example, the orbital ring space elevator.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qezLhypA0Y [Embed]

http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-I.pdf

Technologically possible to build a long time ago, costs less than a bank bailout, and enables us to drop taxes to 0% across the board without cutting spending and paying off the national debt.

Want to end world hunger? This is how you do it. It isn't an ideology. You can't have an opinion about it. It either works or it doesn't. It's a scientific question. And we know that it does.

By implication, we know that people like Bill Gates, every single one of your government representatives, and broadly anyone with a large public platform as well as access to information is implicated in a conspiracy to commit genocide against mankind.

It is only possible to view someone like Kissinger or Gates as respectable human beings if your sight is heavily veiled by ignorance. https://yuki.la/pol/113493430#p113499590



  • Roads are a good example, but not the only one.

I contend that an absence of state investment implies a lack of capitalism rather than the other way around.

Because the state is larger than any other entity, it can engage in larger capital ventures than any other entity. That means it can operate in a non-competitive domain and therefore generate higher returns on capital than private operations.

People believe in capitalism because it produces more stuff at the end of the day. Because you know that your production is sub-optimal by banning state investment, you reject the central tenets of capitalism by rejecting state enterprise.

The construction of the Erie canal in the opening years of the US government is a great example. The construction of roads, rails, hydroelectric dams, rural electrification and then internet access followed suit. Today, we have the capacity to build things like space elevators with returns on capital far in excess of anything a private entity can achieve.

If you believe, as I do, that we desire the multiplication of capital to the greatest extent possible, then you must be in favor of state investment. https://yuki.la/pol/113353939#p113378789


  • A space elevator can be built for about $500B and will generate hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of wealth.

If the state is managed competently, it will have plenty of capital thereafter and not only never need to raise money from the population for infrastructure, but no longer have any reason to even tax people.

Taxation is basically a measure of past incompetency of the government. When it digs itself into a hole, it has to start looting.

The correct way to reduce the burden of the government is to make it a productive enterprise rather than a drain. https://yuki.la/pol/113353939#p113381799


  • Utopia is some sort of perfection.

We're only asking for competency comparable to what has been expressed in the past. Building the Erie canal then, or the space elevator now.

You can force this sort of behavior with simple amendments undoing the income tax. In the past, the government had to put up or shut up because it was less able to loot domestically. For the most part, it put up.

113382936 Wide variety of ways to implement the bigger picture. Postal stamps paid for roads in early America. Sometimes we use tolls on roads now. Charging people to use the space elevator is a possibility is closely analogous. https://yuki.la/pol/113353939#p113383646


  • I'm not sure what you mean by seeks gains over the population here.

If the power to tax is curtailed (either by amendment or the public realizing that taxation is an indicator of incompetency), then they are immediately less able to get over on people.

Sure, you can imagine some cronyism and what not. Society needs robust and determined watchdogs, extensive public disclosure of government operations, and so on.

Furthermore, I believe that the perception of endemic corruption is a bit misguided. The government, as an incompetent entity, is forced into degenerate modes of self-sustaining. There is the appearance of rampant fraud and waste in government spending today, but in reality most of it is just funneling of monies into black budgets to support publicly unacceptable programs like cocaine or heroin trafficking.

You can unwind the motivation of the government to engage in these things, and therefore unwind the majority of what is mislabeled waste and fraud today, by restoring competency. https://yuki.la/pol/113353939#p113386434



  • He is already bogged down. They have no idea what to do about Obamacare. He isn't going to be able to deliver on anything unless he breaks out of the old incompetency. Space elevator allows him to sit GOP/Dems down and say you get 0% taxes across the board and free health care. Every one of you votes yes or I fuck you up in the court of public opinion.

Right now he is helpless against a staged financial crisis or some such. Deep state will continually demand that POTUS bends the knee. He can do that, or he can rise above. No real middle ground here. https://yuki.la/pol/113353939#p113390608


  • The main thing you need for competency is free speech, I think. People will always have good ideas. It's just a matter of whether they make it into the public domain.

You need robust protections against endemic sociopathy like freemasonic gangstalking or whatever, right? That's the kind of thing that killed free speech in the west.

There are technological solutions to this that we can imagine. If everyone had a device similar to a phone that uploaded media to a public commons but had no ID (you can get temporary single transaction identifiers), open source the servers and distribution and allow public inspection, etc., you can make something like Wikileaks but better because of universal accessibility and not being a CIA front, right? There are ways to go about protecting free speech into the future at any rate, and I think that will prohibit incompetency.

People are not decadent or spoiled or whatever. Where we ended up isn't a "natural" course of wealth societies. People get killed for talking sense by the state. Big difference. https://yuki.la/pol/113353939#p113391498


  • Not only is finite resources a meme, exponential growth of the population is possible in perpetuity even with exponential growth in resource consumption into perpetuity.

Intuitively you know this because the universe is infinite. But you are so fucking retarded that some professor or youtube video told you about scarcity and you didn't check his abstraction against your concrete knowledge of the world.

Quit being an ape. https://yuki.la/pol/113363351#p113366208


  • >ignorance, the post

We have the technology to build an orbital ring space elevator, which, combined with the deployment of solar panels into space, would drop energy prices to a little under 1/100th of a penny per kwh.

That puts our cost to orbit per kilogram at about $0.01, or the cost to deliver payloads to Mars per kilogram at about $0.02.

You only believe in scarcity because you are scientifically illiterate. https://yuki.la/pol/113363351#p113369522

Part 12

  • Except that the concentration of intellect and ambition into one society by skimming off the top of the whole world has resulted in a society with the technological capacity to end scarcity.

The presenter in the OP is objectively wrong. Probably not out of malice to deceive, but ignorance of science. https://yuki.la/pol/113363351#p113370330


  • You clearly don't even know what an orbital ring space elevator is or you wouldn't have brought up tensile problems.

It is indeed true that a geosynchronous elevator held up by a counterweight beyond ~40,000 km is not within the scope of current technology owing to insufficiently high tensile strength materials.

However, orbital rings are dynamic structures that reduce the required length of elevators to ~300km, which is practicable with steel but easy with material like kevlar.

You are objectively wrong and should read before speaking again. https://yuki.la/pol/113363351#p113370581


  • Wrong. Speak less, read more.

113371746 I'm happy to address as many concerns as you have one by one.

Where are you going to put the farms?

Indoor farming is not just viable but preferable when you have cheap electricity. You prevent nutrient and water run off and eliminate the need for pesticides. We already have laser/camera systems built and tested that can detect insects and burn them up. Indoor farming drastically increases crop yield because you have no dependency on intermittent rain, can deliver ideal sunlight throughout the whole crop cycle, and grow year round. Finally, the ability to build mutli-story buildings means that even without all of the above benefits, we can increase yields 10x on a per acre basis. In terms of food resources, it is immediately obvious that the planet can support tens of billions more people using only off the shelf technology.

Cheap electricity also solves any emission problems. We can scrub the atmosphere of as much methane or CO2 as we so desire given abundant electricity, which is easy to get by building an orbital ring space elevator.

Electrical distribution is easy. Orbital rings can support 20 or more elevators per ring. It would cost less than $1T to have an elevator deployed to every major city in the world. https://yuki.la/pol/113363351#p113373124


  • Nationalize the federal reserve.

Issue $500B of 0% interest loans to the US treasury to build an Orbital Ring Space Elevator.

Take the hundreds of trillions of wealth that is generated to cut taxes to 0%, eliminate debt, and capitalize a national system of credit that offers 0% credit to people wanting to start productive businesses. https://yuki.la/pol/113327288#p113328436


  • We have now, and have had for decades, the ability to construct a space elevator. I suggest you read Paul Birch's essays on the orbital ring design, which is practicable with current (and decades old) technology unlike the only design you see in the fake CIA press (geosynchronous stationary tether). The project would cost less than $500B and I am happy to enumerate in as much detail the design specifications, reasons the physics works, origination of the price, and so on as you'd like. At any rate, you at least can in principle prove all of this wrong by opening a few textbooks, so it'd be a complete waste of my time to argue from a premise such as this if it were indeed false.

Why is this interesting? With a space elevator in hand, cost to orbit drops to $1-2/kg rather than $20,000/kg and radically transforms the world. Asteroids with trillions of dollars of minerals? We can get them cheaply and bring the resources back to the surface all of a sudden. Solar power can be used for base load (not subject to weather when put into space above the atmosphere) generating capacity, so we can put an end to geostrategic interests in the middle east. You get the idea right? Appropriate infrastructure and the hundreds of trillions of new economic activity it opens up not only obviates concerns like the national debt, it spares us the burdens of wars for control of the reserve currency or petroleum supplies or even rare earth minerals.

If you start doing a little bit of math, you'll find that a solar panel in space produces enough energy to pay for itself in less than 2 years. If you use no concentrating mirrors, the pay off horizon is about 2 years. If you use mirrors (cheap) to concentrate sun on panels (expensive) you can drop this down to less than 6 months.

In other words, the reproduction rate of your most fundamental capital (energy input) in the economy is not less than 50% year over year, but really in excess of 200% done right. https://yuki.la/pol/112892066#p112895313


  • In other words, the reproduction rate of your most fundamental capital (energy input) in the economy is not less than 50% year over year, but really in excess of 200% done right.

Compare that with a 2-3% GDP growth. The fact of the matter is that a genuine, pro-America shift in policy can EASILY generate 20-30% GDP growth rates.

We can deploy a space elevator in just a couple of years. We can have the national debt paid off by the Trump leaves office, without ever cutting spending, all while slashing taxes to 0% across the board. It sounds crazy because it is so far removed from the degenerate policies of the present regime, but you know that isn't. All we've really done here is invoke a simple concept of capitalism: deploy resources in such a way that they generate more than you started with. If you do this well enough, there is no need to loot the taxpayer to fund the government, plus plenty left over to get rid of our debt, clean up the environment, or any number of other worthy causes.

Take from this a fundamental truth about the world: taxation of the people implies incompetency or malevolency on the part of the government. If you spot a politician, or a State Dept speaking head, or a conspiracy theorist host, or any other that would have you believe they speak in the same ballpark as the truth ask of them, how will you cut my taxes to 0%? If they cannot provide you a concrete pathway (as you have already seen exists), then you know that they are a fraud. Do not trust them, do not follow them. Fight them. https://yuki.la/pol/112892066#p112895358



  • You could call either a "meme" to the extent that they are compelling ideas, but they are not crafted as such.

The state of the world is such that people who offer you solutions are generally put down by the regime. The fact that you are being offered solutions - something you've never seen before - should tell you that what we're doing is more than a meme. There is indeed a real revolution afoot, we cannot and won't be stopped.

Your regime will be overthrown by consent or conquest. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/112785168/#112788498



  • The national debt is a nonissue.

We can pay it off even while cutting all taxes to 0%.

All divide and conquer threads are stupid. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/112778295/#112780317



  • The Deep State is not hidden, but right in front of you. You can see it as anyone failing to advance the Space Elevator as a project to address all our society's ills. They hate you and want to keep you utterly suppressed and ignorant of your potential as individual and collective. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/112771752/#112774955

-Sure. The space elevator is good in itself, but it isn't the last or only thing mankind needs to accomplish. Do you have answers? Contribute them, meme them, set your sights and actions towards building a better world. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/112771752/#112774554


  • It'll come to pass that three is known by its fruit.

There is no problem challenging deeply ingrained ideas. Indeed, one should be suspicious of anyone who isn't doing that. The world has obviously gone mad. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/112771752/#112778095


  • Bernie Sanders is a fraud.

How do we know?

It is easy to pay for health care for everyone while simultaneously cutting all taxes to 0%.

If he really wanted health care for you, it would be trivial to sell it as such https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/112760407/#112769236


Part 13

  • Ignoring the fact that 9/11 was a state sponsored operation and the security in place to protect it was on stand down, the space elevator is actually strategically easier to defend than the WTC.

The elevators can be positioned wherever you want and are retractable.

There is no difficulty in setting up security perimeters around elevators, especially when you realize that the elevators can be positioned arbitrarily. Only put them in the oceans if you want where the US has utter and unquestionable dominance as well as the ability to maintain impenetrable security perimeters of hundreds of kilometers.

One might wrongly put forth the idea that it would be vulnerable to missiles or some such, but this is obviously wrong. The only real threat from missiles these days owes to not being able to see over the horizon. Cruise missiles that hug the ground can penetrate air space, sure, but if you are firing at a target above the horizon rather than over it, the defender can see the attack coming from a distance no matter what.

This means that anti-missile technologies like the lasers we have capable of shooting down missiles are impenetrable. https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/112763657/#112772018


  • For those of you who know history, you know Bannon is a fraud. For those of you who don't, here is where you are ignorant:

Throughout history we've had many world reserve currencies. Before the US dollar it was the British pound, the French, Netherlands, etc., preceded these systems. All of these systems last 90 years or so, the amount of time the US has had dominance.

Each system marshaled the real resources of the domestic population to enforce acceptance of fiat throughout the developed economic world. The banking cabal, with the power of the printing press and first access to fresh fiat, buys up hard assets. Then, they use income from fraudulent acquired hard assets to buy up all the gold and silver towards the end of each cycle.

Because usurious debt systems are intrinsically unstable, and the banking cabal knows this, they begin to introduce the idea that only "hard" currency has "real" value when they are preparing to abandon fiat, but of course after having cornered the market on gold/silver.

Then, when people are persuaded we must return to "hard" money, there is no actual transfer of power. The banking cabal is the only one left with any substantial amount of the "hard" money that it got for free by printing fiat.

So, not only does the banking cabal get richer, it gets to jettison the failing fiat and pick a new country to be the next foot soldier in its war against mankind.

The isolationism of Bannon, the ideas that Bannon promotes like the US debt and unfunded liabilities being too large to ever overcome, are his signaling to the usurious banking cabal that he is on their side. He agrees that the fate of the US must be catastrophic depression to clear out "mathematically impossible" debt obligations in his view.

True Americanism is radically different than anything that Bannon is doing. https://yuki.la/pol/114000422#p114004550


  • What would Bannon be doing if he was truly on the side of the American people rather than an OBVIOUS fraud working on behalf of the usury cabal?

He'd believe in capitalism for starters.

All of us who believe in capitalism believe in mankind's ingenuity. We literally conjure up wealth. We build roads that open new markets. We dredge rivers, we connect oceans, and gain greater efficiencies. We turn useless metals like uranium into massive energy supplies. We create wealth with our minds and intelligent manipulation of the capital stock to create ever greater capital stocks.

In short, Americanism is the ability to conjure wealth up. We Americans do not believe in mathematically inevitability of bankruptcy. We do not serve the satanism of fate or degeneracy of exploitation. We build ever better futures.

Those among you hate America and everything she stands for, Bannon among them, serve a very different ideology. They talk about inevitability of collapse, abandoning the promises to our seniors, scarcity and being fated to deep depressions to clear the debt rather than massive booms to do the same.

It isn't just a novel failure. We saw above that the satanic worldview of people like Bannon has been repeated over and over again on behalf of and in service to the usury cabal.

Reject it this time around. We need not go down this path again. https://yuki.la/pol/114000422#p114005298


  • Usury is to capitalism as a virus is to a host. The former dies without the latter, but the latter is better off without the former.

We see usury cabals operating where capitalism flourishes because parasites must seek after blood and no other reason. Usury does not enable or enhance capitalism whatsoever.

Americanism is not just a culture of wealth generation.

On this point, I partially agree but you are taking a very low level and misdirected point of view on the problem having been brainwashed by satanists serving the usurers such as Bannon.

America is part of a great arc of history of mankind rising up to do away with masters and enslavement. We fight not just esoteric cults who suppress knowledge or totalitarianism but also economic depravation, because all of these things are intrinsically linked. It is the mission of Americanism, and of all good people before it, to further the conditions of the world such that idiosyncratic communities can flourish. Each human being is inherently idiosyncratic; this is the state of nature. We need not fight for idiosyncratic states then, but simply against the darkness that seeks the suppression of the individual.

At the forefront of this darkness is the usury cabal, and Bannon clearly serves it. He is, therefore, despite protestations to the contrary, deeply and passionately opposed to the things you claim he defends. https://yuki.la/pol/114000422#p114009836


  • >>Bannon is serving the "usury cabal." >I really don't think this is a serious proposition.

It is abundantly clear for a wide variety of reasons. You don't like what I have given you, so we'll just keep with more until you get it. Why invoke the passions of christiandom via gay sex rather than usury? Even a cursory reading of the texts of christiandom, which Bannon purports to defend, yields that Bannon is a fraud:

“Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given. For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let anyone accept this who can.”

versus the actual physical VIOLENCE that Jesus wrought on the usurers.

He does these things because he gets off on pretending to be on your side while knowingly, intentionally subverting culture. Satanism 101.

There is no "great arc of history,"

Objectively wrong. Pic related. We can describe many such arcs of history and even master arcs on top of those. Any notion to the contrary is simply retarded and you know it, though perhaps not as well as I do.

The "suppression of the individual" is absolutely necessary because in some cases people are incapable of making good decisions for themselves; this is why we have "laws."

Here you are just defining yourself as right a la pseudo-thinkers like Sam Harris by constructing straw men to fight.

No one considers killing other people to be part of a framework of empowering individuals because bringing about expiration is obviously contrary to the stated aim. https://yuki.la/pol/114000422#p114016851




  • At 11:15 or so Bannon tells you that all you need is KJB, Shakespeare, Plutarch to be great like Lincoln.

The problem here is that he is lying. Knowingly so.

Lincoln's primary advisor was Henry Clay, who in turn was primarily influenced by Hamilton. These guys were obsessed not with rhetoric but with concrete action. They formulated (in Hamilton's time) things like the Cumberland Pike and Erie Canal, or in Lincoln's/Clay's time the building of a vast rail network. And all of them believed in a system of national credit to drive out usurers, sustaining it's creditworthiness not on debt obligations but on objective observation that they were investing capital into systems which would generate far more value than their construction required. These were men that wanted to abolish the debt system in favor of an equity one.

They found this:

We can somehow get out of debt without paying it off, going into a depression, or going to war.

to be true, and so do I.

Want to plug the $200T hole that the US has? That's really easy actually.

You can build a space elevator for $500B. You can deliver solar power from space to the ground for something like 1/10th of a penny per kwh. The cheapest alternative available is coal at about $.06/kwh. So, we can undercut the global electricity market ($10T/year) by 50% and generate an income stream for the US of about $5T/year. Obviously there would be a massive economic boom associated not only with slashing energy prices in half, but the newly acquired ability to scale up deliverable energy to 100x what we've got now at the same acquisition price (~1/10th of a penny per kwh).

In short, application of one good idea is enough to plug a $200T hole in 40 years (actually much, much sooner given associated economic booms, growing energy use and therefore an income stream that vastly outstrips $5T in short order, etc.).

The fated reality Bannon is selling is a lie and it is shameful. https://yuki.la/pol/114000422#p114022332


Part 14

  • >'>114023049

They are all compromised.

'>>114023146

These projects are definitely coming because the satanists behind Trump like Bannon are being forced to bend the knee.

If these degenerates believed in such progress to begin with, they would've articulated it already instead of giving retarded spiels like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nTd2ZAX_tc [Embed]

We're going to get good governance again but in spite of, not because of, people like Bannon. https://yuki.la/pol/114000422#p114023768

lolbertardian

The unnecessary partisan strike against a group that was already outside of the Overton Window and insisting resolutely on the general solubility of problems makes you look really bad. There's so much interesting information here. Please don't embed insults against your target audience if you want them to take up your ideas.

Are you referring to me or Space Elevator anon? He is using 4chan dialogue.

What did you think about the masculinity/misogyny thing that was snuck in there?

Outside the Overton Window? The Libertarian party is run by freemasons. I've personally gotten masonic handshakes from a number of the senior party leaders.

They have blatantly masonic symbols in their logo. Isis is in the flame, the torch handle is a fucking Osiris obelisk (cock), and the torch is a symbol of Lucifer/Satan, the Light Bringer (according to masons' intentional misreading of the Bible).

I always thought the biggest problem was with using steal? Isn't that why we are waiting for graphene to become easier to produce?

No, the problem which the media had told everyone is that we need Carbon Nanotubes for a Geosynchronous Space Elevator, which is true. However, you don't need a Space Elevator to reach GEO as it only needs to reach LEO. Steel and Kevlar is more than enough to do it.

You can do it with steel. Kevlar-jacketed steel is better.

Any chance the military has already accomplished such a task?

You would literally be able to see it.

And if it's at either of the poles could it be hidden?

At what distance would the human eye lose resolution on the strand of it?

God's work again, u/darkomantis. So much information in one place.

So, if space elevator and orbital ring is feasible to build, why is POTUS not talking about such a project of harvesting energy from space, delivering new wealth and high GDP growth?

Why is he silent about it? Why?

Cuz this whole thing is fiction. Otherwise why post it on 4chan

The goal is to spread information (that such technology is feasible). 4chan has been very effective in doing so.

Everything on 4 chan is 100% false, ergo this is false. Flawless logic!

Have a downvote, and think a little next time.

The false equivalence and logical fallacies are the prime reason debating on Reddit is so frustrating ..

It sort of oscillates. It's fun before you know what you're dealing with, then it's frustrating. Do it long enough and it gets fun again... but it'll always get frustrating again if you do it a bit longer than that.

This is a very apt description - you must be a fellow sufferer? Haha

wealthy citizens -> more time to think for themselves -> more dissidence

Look at Podesta mails where it is confirmed that elites want non-questioning and compliant citizens

So, if space elevator and orbital ring is feasible to build, why is POTUS not talking about such a project of harvesting energy from space, delivering new wealth and high GDP growth?

Maybe he's actually a part of the establishment... it's just that people don't know what "the establishment" really is.

Thank you for compiling!

What do you think of ThotX (pls ask space elevator guy if you catch them) ?

They want to create a pseudo space elevator (look up "thotx tower") and they have plans for asteroid mining too.

They spook me cuz the plans for starting ThotX tower construction is coincidentally after "pol awakened Thoth!!1" which is soon

What do you think of ThothX?

It's a horrible idea. A launch loop (although inferior to the orbital ring) could get your launch costs to maybe $85-300 for similar capital costs. ThothX is going to get you to... maybe $1000?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Launch_loop

http://slides.launchloop.com//launchloop.pdf

I see. I've been thinking of ways I could help meme this.

I'll paint something nice for my art followers to see.

~~ I could convince people by telling them novelty applications than sciencey ones like space tourism, extreme-mile-high and low-G porn lol ~~

The non-rocket launch ideas are where it's at. Once you get below a few hundred dollars/kg to launch things, space really opens up. But we can't do much with $2000+/kg.

gotta meme it harder then since this will get suppressed . Conflict with Tesla and other companies @_@

Can someone explain the religious, "man is a rope..." stuff in part 7?

Thanks OP for compiling this.

BUMP U M P

for interest

For example, with a space elevator we can reliably launch our nuclear waste into the sun. We've spent $100 billion building a waste repository in Nevada, but it was ultimately decided not to even use it. Now it costs only a dollar or two per kilogram to get rid of all of the nuclear waste in the world.

No, we can't. The hard part of getting nuclear material to the sun isn't the dangerous rocket launch, which the elevator would actually help with, but it's the actual physics of hitting the sun itself.

It's missing obvious stuff like this that makes reading through the pages of other information a lot less appealing.

No, we can't. The hard part of getting nuclear material to the sun isn't the dangerous rocket launch, which the elevator would actually help with, but it's the actual physics of hitting the sun itself.

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about, and just made this up. You think it's hard to hit the giant glowing orb at the center of the solar the system? The biggest thing in said solar system by several orders of magnitude?

It's missing obvious stuff like this that makes reading through the pages of other information a lot less appealing.

In addition to bad analysis, you also do cursory analysis.

You think it's hard to hit the giant glowing orb at the center of the solar the system? The biggest thing in said solar system by several orders of magnitude?

Yeah it actually is. It's easier to launch a rocket to another solar system than it is to hit the sun. It's not intuitive, but it would be easier to launch a rocket to Pluto then launch into the sun from there. If I'm just making stuff up though, it should be pretty easy for you to post a lot of information on how I'm wrong.

Until then, here's the best we can do now. 7 years and 7 assists with Venus and we can get to an unprecedented 4 million miles away from the sun.

Why are you talking about rockets? This would be a railgun that's already in low earth orbit.

Of course it's hard to hit it with rockets.

Why are you talking about rockets?

The energy required is the same. Whether you use rockets and fuel or rail guns and electricity you need to get your payload going at about 30 km/s to make it hit the sun. How feasible is that going to be?

This would be a railgun that's already in low earth orbit.

Being in low earth orbit already doesn't matter. You need to cancel out Earth's orbital speed to hit the sun whether you start on the surface or in LEO. It seems like you're thinking that escaping Earth's gravity is the hard part when it's really not. It's the fact that we're travelling at 70,000 mph already that makes hitting the sun difficult.

The energy required is the same. Whether you use rockets and fuel or rail guns and electricity you need to get your payload going at about 30 km/s to make it hit the sun. How feasible is that going to be?

You can produce kinetic energy with a rail gun at a tiny fraction of the cost of producing kinetic energy with liquid-fuel rockets coming from the surface of earth.

Being in low earth orbit already doesn't matter. You need to cancel out Earth's orbital speed to hit the sun whether you start on the surface or in LEO.

Ok, it's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. Escaping earth's gravity and atmosphere is most of the cost of getting to other planets, this is obvious from basic physics.

Ok, it's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about. Escaping earth's gravity and atmosphere is most of the cost of getting to other planets, this is obvious from basic physics.

Why are you talking about other planets? We're talking about the sun. The hardest part of getting to other planets is escaping Earth's gravity, which is relatively easy and a space elevator would make the cost peanuts. The hardest part of getting to the sun is cancelling out Earth's orbital speed. That's not easy no matter how you do it because of the energy required.

Since you haven't provided any proof for how easy hitting the sun is and you clearly haven't looked into this for yourself, here you go:

https://www.wired.com/2016/07/physics-trying-crash-sun/

http://www.csicop.org/sb/show/shooting_for_the_sun

http://www.iop.org/activity/outreach/resources/pips/topics/earth/facts/page_43079.html "The speed a rocket needs to attain to reach the Sun: about 30 km/s, because it needs to cancel out Earth's orbital speed - so it is about twice as hard, in terms of speed needed, to reach the Sun as it is to reach the outer planets (about 4 times as hard in energy terms, because energy is proportional to speed squared)"

HLI Woot!

Tell Trump he can put his name on it and we could have this baby approved tomorrow.

In all seriousness though, this sounds amazing and I'm only on part 4.

Great work Darko- I've reed most of these adhoc but in addition to the new ones, compilation help with comprehension ..

Part 2

  • Even at 2000B, the project is worthwhile.

Retrieval of a single asteroid can pay for a project cost of trillions of dollars. There is no argument against it on a cost basis.

As to your lolbertardian objections, anyone with the most basic of history knows you are flatly wrong. The original majority middle class generated in US society is a direct outgrowth of road building, canal building, electrification programs, and so on, that created the most efficient economic engine mankind has ever known. This is simply an extension of what we already know works.

Finally, territory over the equator is unnecessary (but easily conquered if we wanted it) because orbital rings can be built at any inclination. It works perfectly fine running over the north and south poles. https://yuki.la/pol/107546074#p107554097


  • The video doesn't go into much detail here but the general idea of cost reduction is still valid.

The Falcon Heavy that is quoted at $2000/kg at ~10 launches per year, for example, is designed to be both reusable and able to execute rocket powered landings for no good reason ("go to Mars without a space elevator in place first" - retarded).

We have no reason to execute powered landings on Earth. It is only for landing on asteroids/Mars. Parachutes are a cheaper and better alternative if you want to reuse rockets.

But, we have no reason to use reusable rockets. The whole concept presupposes that rockets are never going to be mass manufactured and gain efficiencies of scale.

Finally, we don't need human rated launch platforms. It is perfectly fine if 5% of them blow up during launch if that means the rockets can be made 15% cheaper.

Ok, so those are three big cost saving points for how such a program would actually be carried out.

We also have to consider that much of the current cost of rockets is in amortized R&D. If you spend $10B developing rockets you only use 100 times, they start off costing $100 million a piece before you've even built anything. If you launch one design several thousand times, you are saving tens of millions of dollars per rocket.

Then, we have underutilized facilities. Global launches are only about 100 per year and yet we have 20+ operational launchpads, dozens of organizations each staffed with the personnel to carry out these launches on their own, all of whom are only working at less than 1% capacity. Same thing applies to rocket production facilities, the people who are employed to build rockets, do quality assurance, and so on.

Scaling up brings your infrastructure utilization from 1% to near 100%, including the vast army of people whose salaries make up a huge chunk of the cost.

We could go on, but you can see by now that 90% reduction in costs is easy to see. https://yuki.la/pol/107461735#p107479153


  • Consider the vast array of unused capital existing today in the world. There are idle humans, idle oil rigs, idle caterpillar equipment, or more to the point, even idle rocket designers, launch planners, and rocket production facilities plus stockpiles of idle resources.

It takes not very long to realize that there is actually no socially imposed economic cost of acquiring a space elevator. In fact, the organizational impetus of such a project only relieves socially imposed economic burdens of disorganization and idleness that are dwindling the productive capacity. In short, we are relieving the world of a bit of the bad sort of chaos with visionary order, while also imbuing the world with the type of chaos that we desire - the potentiality of a drive forward to new, better, higher modes.

Or in less philosophical terms, a space elevator generates hundreds of trillions of dollars in wealth within a few short years, whereas no other comparable expenditure is within an order of magnitude of such productive success. The weighing of cost and benefits is trivial in this case. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107548175


  • This is actually a more expensive way of going about it even if it seems intuitively appealing.

Imagine a small manufacturing hub that could use asteroid material to generate our ring. If the manufacturing base were the size of a single world trade center, it would weigh 450 million kilograms - more than twice what the ring weighs and therefore already doubling cost before even acquiring a ring. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107548700


  • (1) Stormy weather - if you review Paul Birch's papers on the concept starting here: http://www.orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-I.pdf ; you'll find that drag forces from Cat5 storms are well within the tolerance of such a structure. Nevertheless, we can engineer out encounters with such storms in a fairly straightforward manner. Imagine, rather than a continuous tether from the ground to the orbital ring, that your elevator is built in two pieces.

First, you have an inflatable tower reaching to about 10-20 kilometers - above the height of storms. Then, you couple your tower to your hanging tether from the orbital ring. The inflatable tower can be retracted when storms are approaching while the tether from the ring is left hanging above any passing storm for the duration. Because you can couple dozens of tethers to a single orbital ring system and only one or two are necessary for gravitational stability (rings around a central mass tend to destabilize from any perturbation without a coupling force to counteract), we can give a first approximation that only ~5% of the elevators need to be operational at any given time. In fact the situation is much friendlier, because the orbital ring takes a couple months to destabilize with no elevators whatsoever attached. So really all that we require is that a single elevator out of dozens is functional for a brief period at least once every two months to maintain system stability.

(2) Objects flying up there, debris... The US military already has lasers that can shoot down rockets. Similarly, we can deploy such systems around the ring to defend it from any incoming threatening objects.

(3) Magnetosphere interference? Drag is calculated in Birch's papers referenced above. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107552578

(4) Maintenance costs.... The first orbital ring costs about $1 billion in materials versus $400 billion or so to launch into space. It has a throughput capacity several orders of magnitude greater than its own weight each year. You can place billions of kilograms of payload into orbit in the first year of operation in addition to building hundreds of new rings. Of course we don't want to just give up on old rings. That's no problem. The original ring system is expanded from two coupled counterrotating rings to perhaps 14 or 16 coupled counterrotating rings trivially. You therefore gain the ability to spin down any two for maintenance / repairs or even simple cannibalization and replacement. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107553066


  • You are giving yourself an assumption not related to reality, namely:

lets say we have only 2 options.

When we already have the capacity to start today and have an elevator built within two years for trivial levels of expenditure. Far less than wars, bank bailouts, annual defense spending, etc.

We KNOW that within 2-3 years of having a space elevator the world will have been dramatically transformed by high double digit annual GDP growth, expiring of national debts, setting all taxes to 0%, and so on. To put off such a possible future because it might become even easier to attain in the future is nonsense; if such a thing were to happen, it means only that our future is even brighter than we imagined looking forward to no taxes, no scarcity, no energy problems, and so on.

Meanwhile, doing nothing means the future is bleak. The choice is not even close to difficult. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107553652


  • An unbroken ring around a central body, if the centers of mass are even slightly perturbed from alignment, would eventually result in the ring crashing into the central mass.

If the ring is cut / broken, it wouldn't crash to Earth. Because it spins at higher than orbital velocity, it would actually just move up and away from the planet. https://yuki.la/pol/107529039#p107554569


  • Nationalism is retarded. There is no point in being proud of something you had no control over. You did not decide to be born American.

However, using the nationstate as an organizing vehicle for economic advancement is as American as it gets. https://yuki.la/pol/107617996#p107623815


  • Space exploration is pretty pointless in a way, yes.

Is there any reason to spend $100B on a manned mission to Mars? Well, there is exactly one. It is meant to capture your attention and prevent it from being directed towards fruitful endeavors.

Once we build a space elevator is a relatively straightforward task to colonize and terraform Mars though. Turning the planet into another habitable zone for mankind would be a worthwhile endeavor and is achievable with today's technology. https://yuki.la/pol/107306468#p107312307


And if it's at either of the poles could it be hidden?

At what distance would the human eye lose resolution on the strand of it?