Hillary is that bad.

Problem is that for every crime I can trace to Hillary, I can trace a parallel to Trump.

No you cannot, he has never been in public service.

So what? Hillary is in public service, took bribes from him, has blackmailed people, and has been blackmailed by foreign powers for decades.

Trump hasn't had 30 years to spread corruption throughout government. The worst he will do is burn it all down WHICH IS WHY PEOPLE VOTED FOR HIM.

Yes. Remember the Boston Tea Party?

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it's natural manure.

http://wiki.monticello.org/mediawiki/index.php/The_tree_of_liberty...(Quotation)

He's an incompetent Orange Cheeto. He will take down the establishment with him in a blaze of glory.

You know forest fires are actually good for forests right?

It's good for young trees not old ones. Removes old ones to allow young ones to grow.

Not sure about that. All I can say is what I saw during the election. Most all my friends were for Bernie a few of us even went to the primaries and voted for him. But when he lost to Hilary and after everyone saw how they sabotaged Bernie I think a lot of people jumped ship. I think a lot of people really hate Hillary and just aren't as vocal.

I think he's saying Democrat corruption cost Hillary the votes.

Yup.

If you're still desperately in denial and looking for a scapegoat for the DNC and Clinton's sins, sure. Go for it.

Rest of us will keep on hanging out in reality and trying to move forward.

That's was a pretty huge exception in the last election.

GOP knew going into the election a certain number of states were a lock like they always are for the Republicans. Trump needed to flip the Rust Belt states and he worked his ass off campaigning there while Clinton barely showed up--never showed up in a couple of them!

Do not dismiss the importance of actually going out there and asking for citizen's votes. Clinton presumed she was getting them while Trump was on the stump--day after day, three stops a day--giving speeches and asking for their votes.

I don't think anybody can deny Trump displayed behavior that suggested he wanted it more, while Clinton displayed behavior that suggested she deserved it more.

Trump's meme minions also crushed Clinton's. And at least some parts of the military and intelligence community were behind him, that's pretty clear.

But mostly people just hated her. HATED her. I traveled around the country a lot over last summer and saw tons of Trump signs, they must've outnumbered Clinton signs 100-1, or more.

no.

Sabotaged Bernie? 😂😂😂😂😂

Yes. The DNC didn't care who the people wanted they had already picked their candidate and it was Hilary. I honestly believe Trump would have lost to Bernie.

Memes helped a lot. It's difficult to force memes, Hillary tried.

Trump won because the internet can see he's honest & Hillary was not.

Yeah BUSINESS associates. There's no friends in business, it's always about $.

Trump was still honest when campaigned, that's why so many people find him vulgar.

If he was a liar he would be as smooth as obama.

And?

I can't think of any billionaire businessmen who don't have some sort of suit against them at any given time.

Show me the corruption and abuse of power like we saw with Hillary.

Trump may be a rude, unethical businessman, but at least he's not a devil worshiping baby eating corporate sell out

Educate people, link stuff or at bare minimum an entry point, don't let discussions hang like that.

If you say so buddy, good luck out there in the field of ideas.

Judging by all your answers in the thread I'm gonna make a safe guess and put you on ignore..

One side clearly had better marketing.

You're right, and that's why Trump won. Sometimes less is more. Hillary is severely unlikeable, so her ads only served as constant reminders.

Yup. Clinton was despised. Trump was generally disliked, but she was hated.

Clinton was the absolute worst candidate to run against Trump. Sanders would have likely defeated him. Martin O'Malley, too.

Is that why she got more of the popular vote?

See: leaked videos from campaign managers saying they bus people from county to county to vote multiple times.

Lol source? And you do know that people voting twice in person rarely happens right?

I provided the video in my other comment to you. Did you watch it before declaring it's authenticity? Seems like you just want to discredit it. Weird, people used to critically think here rather than going with the narrative.

I think it's time to put this irrational and delusional argument to bed.

Clinton won the popular vote because of California and no other reason. The vast vast vast majority of districts country wide voted for Trump, with a few urban areas falling in line for Clinton.

I wish there WOULD be an investigation into illegal immigrants voting in California, because several friends of mine who live in state in two separate urban regions said they saw people without ID and without cards just come in and allowed to vote provisionally. Whether these votes were counted or not, I don't know.

What I do know is that there was all kinds of strange discrepancies about uncounted votes and provisional votes during the Democratic primary in California, and that Sanders tight race somehow swung to Clinton significantly in the end, which still doesn't pass the smell test for me. Thus, neither does the general election.

But even if you take corruption and cheating off the table, the fact remains that Trump dominated in regional county voting and the Electoral College. If the country was not based on Electoral College, perhaps the campaigning would have worked differently.

Clinton lost every Rust Best state she should have won. Trump knew what states he had to win, and California wasn't one of them.

Clinton won the popular vote because of California and no other reason. The vast vast vast majority of districts country wide voted for Trump, with a few urban areas falling in line for Clinton.

That is pure bullshit, she lost because Trump won Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania by a combined 80,000 votes or so.

I say: "The vast vast vast majority of districts country wide voted for Trump, with a few urban areas falling in line for Clinton."

Response is: "That is pure bullshit...."

Facts speak for themselves: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/da/2016_Presidential_Election_by_County.svg/2000px-2016_Presidential_Election_by_County.svg.png

Few urban areas that hold more population?

she lost because she is reviled. she, as a career politician, was beaten by a reality television star. she cheated all of us out of bernie by committing fraud in the democratic primary.

Tump won because of Hillary Clinton's hubris and ambition. As questionable as he may be, her level of establishment corruption would have been far worse (according to the election process, popular vote notwithstanding).

She didn't and that doesn't matter.

When did 62 million become > 65 million?

Not real

So 62 million > 65 million, what universe do you live in?

Sanders would have likely defeated him.

Yes.

Martin O'Malley, too.

No.

Hillary supporters are looking for some arcane algebra and deep conspiracy that describes how this could have been possible. Because they ignore the simple fact that she was just plain unelectable.

It is hard to understand in the face of decades of programming us to think voting doesn't matter, that if voting had any power they wouldn't let us do it. I think the idea that voting is still somewhat in the hands of the people was the biggest eye opener of this election.

I didn't say you were, my comment is just in general. But Trump was a repudiation of the system that creates candidates like her. He was our Jesse Ventura. It is hard in our complex world to believe it could be that simple, but that is what happened at it's core.

Because they ignore the simple fact that she was just plain unelectable.

Is that why she had 3 million more votes than Trump lol?

Is she president?

That is irrevalent to her being "unelectable", clearly the American people wanted more Democratic electors to select HRC than they wanted Republican electors to select Trump. We just happen to live in a Banana Republic where you could theoretically become president with 22% of the vote while your opponent gets 78%.

She couldn't beat an orange clown with all the media and establishment behind her using the electoral system she has been working with for at least 40 years. She had all the money and help any candidate could ever hope to have, and she lost to a reality TV star. Literally anyone else could have probably beaten Trump.

The popular vote is not how presidents get elected in America. Saying she won the popular vote and kicking and screaming enough times is not going to make the popular vote mean anything.

She couldn't beat an orange clown with all the media and establishment behind her using the electoral system she has been working with for at least 40 years.

The Electoral College system has always leaned towards conservative states since the Reagan Revolution since most smaller states are conservative and again, you can win the electoral college with only 22% of the vote by specifically going after the smaller states. And you need are way off on your estimation of her and WJC's national impact, try 25 or so years.

Remember what we are arguing about.

That large populations confined to 1-2 specific states produced the entirety of her "popular vote win."

No you said that she was unelectable, she got more votes that Trump, that sounds pretty damn electable. She also lost 3 swing states by 80,000 votes and she only needed 2 to win.

No you said that she was unelectable

Where?

Sorry I thought you were OP given your quote, but that was OP's claim and that is all my points are addressing.

https://youtu.be/jUDTcxIqqM0

Bussing voters from county to county would explain that.

Lol that video is proven to be edited, check out the transcripts from those interviewed where they say that is clearly illegal.

Proven by whom? I provided links so feel free to do the same. Also attempting to discredit the video is expected of you, I'd be more surprised if you considered the possibility. (Remember we aren't in /r/politics we stay skeptical here)

Or the Electoral College sets the U.S. up as a Banana Republic.

People voted for him

Because he is a political molotov cocktail designed to set fire to Hillary Clinton who has funded human trafficking, been sued thousands of times, does business with mob, calls black men super predators and signs crime bills more draconian than in apartheid south africa, mocks her own supporters by calling them bros, alienates half the country by calling them deplorables and collapses on 9/11 due to STDs she caught from her husband who violated sanctions and monica lewinsky in one fell swoop with a cuban cigar.

If that candidate represents modern American values, maybe I've been rooting for the wrong team my whole life.

So what? People like the fact that he has. He was elected to destroy the government, not to keep the corruption going.

The establishment is destroying your country far worse than Trump will.

Because your country just spent the last 30 years ignorantly bombing anyone who disagrees with you, destroying the middle east and Europe, interfering in my country and countless other country's elections.

Your wartime intelligence agencies and bloated bureaucracy and military industrial complex are the number one threat to world peace. Any regime which violates the UN convention on torture is illegitimate and foreign powers are justified in intervening to remove that regime through any means necessary (it's the justification the US uses for bombing Syria, so Russia using the truth to break your regime is definitely fine)

I'm not defending him, stop moralizing.

Yet he is filling everything with GOP insiders....

How do you know? Have you seen proof that voting results are legit? I hate Hillary, but i sure as fuck don't trust the Government or the system in place.

Trumpers love and trust the government these days.

I think it's just that a lot of people are confused.

How do you know? Have you seen proof that voting results are legit? I hate Hillary, but i sure as fuck don't trust the Government or the system in place.

Would be nice to get some voting reform going, including a voter ID measure to help ensure the integrity of the voting system, so that we can stop speculating about how many votes were illegal or not. Also need paper ballots everywhere.

Special electors voted for him.

Someone HAD to be running interference.

Reach thread as usual.

The polls all predicted it.

The Electoral College is a bullshit and arcane system, that is why Trump won. Maybe it made sense in 1789, it doesn't today.

This is a good question that only the people who actually run the country can answer. Killary killton had more funding, the mass media to back her up, paid shills and more and still lost (which is a good thing. Nuclear war is bad).

Killary Killton? I mean do you hear yourself? Are you 12 years old?

Trump is for nuclear damage

He told the truth and was good at politics.

Hillary said nothing, made no bold promises, refused to listen to anyone who reported accurately weighted polls, and didn't campaign in the swing states.

People think Trump tells the truth because he speaks the true OPINIONS of the american people on all sides (his opponents view this as being contradictory).

They didn't fall for anything, he's a weaponized meme. You've never listened to his supporters. All you do is assume they voted for him because he tricked them into thinking he was a good politician. That's extremely wrong.

People voted for Trump because they feel the existing system doesn't matter. Ignoring their concerns and whining about your own misinterpretation of why people voted for him isn't persuasive.

This constant whining and conspiracy theories about putin attacking america with propaganda the way America attacked the Soviet Union is irrelevant. It's the reason the Democrats and Hillary Clinton are now less popular than the media.

The Clinton team purposely elevated Trump because they viewed him as the easiest candidate to beat. Remember the story of the Pied Piper? At the end of the day he led away the rats and the children.

They didn't fall for anything, he's a weaponized meme.

You dont see the contradiction here?

He yelled louder. That's how you win arguments. By being the loudest.

His opponents were arguing that he would destroy the government, which is the same thing his supporters believe.

He was set up by establishment

I'm of the belief that it was a perfect storm of stupidity vs a guy who has fought the NY Post for 40 years! The GOP ran pussies in the primary! Bush tried to scare off all comers by racking up a $100 Million war chest but didn't really have a message other than "I'm the better Bush kid". After Trump took him out with "Low Energy" it was all over but the crying! SNL called him "Jebra" and he was out.

The rest of the GOP crew were cable news ratings gold! And then CNN & MSNBC turned on Trump cause he was beating everyone & could make it all the way! Trump then as is now is pure ratings gold and sucked up all the air in the room and anyone he went against had to reply to what he said vs pushing out their message! It was glorious! haha

Then the DNC gave him the biggest gift and put Hillary's Nomination in a rigged primary against Bernie! It showed how corrupt the entire system was from the Democrats side. Sure we thought it might be but then you saw DWS & Donna Brazil totally act out some shady shit! It was beautiful! Everytime they did something shady he would tweet and they would have to spend real $$$ to fight him!

Also it didn't help that Hillary's only message was I have a vagina & it's my turn! Here is a gender reversal video of a Female Trump vs. a Male Hillary and you will see she never had a chance!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pU06-3mPH1I

Again just my two cents.

Thanks! I know it was a bit of a rant but sometimes Occam's razor really does apply.

I think it's a deception so that people trust the system again

A lot of people were dissatisfied due to economic disparity, unemployment and basically just feeling like they weren't being heard, so the election emerged as a change election.

And what did the DNC do? They threw their entire weight behind an establishment candidate because it was Her Year.

From Adam Curtis's documentary HyperNormalisation:

Many of the facts that Trump asserted were also completely untrue, but Trump didn't care. He and his audience knew that much of what he said bore little relationship to reality.

This meant that Trump defeated journalism.

Because the journalists central belief was that their job was to expose lies and assert the truth. With Trump this became irrelevant.

Not surprisingly Putin admired this.

A few moments later in the doc.

The Liberals were outraged by Trump, but they expressed their beliefs in cyberspace so it had no effect. Because the algorithms made sure they only spoke to people who already agreed with them. Instead, ironically, their waves of angry messages and tweets benefited the large corporations that ran the social media platforms.

Essentially we live in a fake world - Trump recognized this and had the existing connections and capital to secure the position.

Because the journalists central belief was that their job was to expose lies and assert the truth.

Except that's not what they did. They went all in to push Hillary. They could have risen above it and done nothing but talk equal amounts of shit about each.

A belief is different then action I agree. Their "truth" was that Hillary was good (or at the least better).

No one liked Hillary. Maybe 10% of the people were actual Hillary supporters, another 15% were anti-Trump.

He also pulled in a lot of working class people that normally don't vote, or don't vote Republican.

America is a banana republic.

It mainly came down to Florida. If Trump didn't win there he wouldn't have won, and Hillary neglected the other states that were traditionally Democrat.

It's not really anything so far out. He won by letting the DNC shoot itself in the foot a la stealing the primary from sanders--lots of people didn't show up out of apathy. Trump's team planned for the electoral college better. Also he has a reality show that has been on for a decade--he knows how to game TV.

don't you know? every POTUS is chosen. we are given the illusion of choice. the question is: why was he allowed to win. people didn't trust Clinton but now SHTF. what's next?

the POTUS is a puppet. someone is always pulling the strings.

We are. The alt media. Alex Jones. Etc.

Trump spent less, but campaign spending by and for Trump still totaled like a billion dollars.

This is an extremely complex question, but part of this is a flawed premise as the Russians were a culpable party. Another was the media who handed Trump a blank-check for air time. Another important factor was the fact that the Republican primary featured seventeen candidates. That's often overlooked, but it was critical - particularly since most of them did not take Trump seriously early on.

There is no single factor, though, and anyone who says there is is a simpleton. Everything from Russia's interference to Comey's letter being leaked played a role in shaping the outcome of the electoral college. From 20 years of Fox News hating on Clinton to the well-understood hypocrisy of Evangelicals played it's part - who believed, for example, in 2011 that personal immorality was politically disqualifying 70% to 30% but completely flipped those numbers to 28% to 72% in 2016. Don't even get me started on the people who honestly think all the coal jobs are coming back to some key swing states. (Hint: they're not.) That's just a few examples from the Republican side. There are at least dozens more - and then it's time to start on nonpartisan issues before eventually working on to the Democratic side of the equation.

He's an incompetent Orange Cheeto. He will take down the establishment with him in a blaze of glory.

He yelled louder. That's how you win arguments. By being the loudest.

I think it's just that a lot of people are confused.

Is she president?

https://youtu.be/jUDTcxIqqM0

Bussing voters from county to county would explain that.