This whole sub lets corrupt immorality exists by focusing on fake conspiracies and fake corruption all while corruption happens in plain sight through lobbyists and special interests control of the entire government.
The enemy isn't some CIA boogeyman, who's job it is to protect the American people. The enemy is corporations who BUY the people's power away from them. And this happens in plain view with NOTHING to stop it, except liberals who try and fail.
Sorry no. That's just looking the other way again. Pinning evil on something that most likely doesn't exist. All while ignorant to corruption in plain sight. Is the government supposed to be representing the people? Yes. Do they? No, they represent who pays their cheques and that's corporations.
Perhaps very true, I wish they would publish more stories like that in the media than their agenda driven brain washing. Positive PR would work wonders for them right now. It can't possibly be because they lack actual evidence of them doing good. I know there are plenty of good willed folks working in any arm of the government, but there is definitely and eerie silence about specific cases of terrorism being stopped.
It's just not news when an attack doesn't happen. it's only news if harm is done.
It's really up to people to have common sense. I mean it's not a reach to believe that US has lots of enemies, and it's not a reach to assume that our law enforcement and CIA are stopping them. It's just common sense.
Well I'm not giving the CIA any huge amount of credit for stopping terrorist attacks. They really need to do actual verifiable good to fix their reputation because they are becoming a household name as the evil side of the government. And their leadership has shown that is what they like to do. Not the agents on the ground, but their leadership. Personally I believe they are used for far different purposes.
The CIA exists to do the illegal things the government does not want to be tied to. And honestly why wouldn't our government want to be tied to stopping a terrorist? They have experimented on humans without their permission and have blackmailed and intimidated our own citizens. It is almost harder to find the good they have done rather than the reverse.
CIA does work for US government interests yes. But who signs off and approves their work? THE PRESIDENT.
Remember the Iraq war? You probably think the CIA lied to go to work. You probably didn't read the now declassified (due to FOIA) act report where the CIA states explicitly that Iraw having WMDs was NOT reliable. So who lied to the American public and misrepresented the CIA's findings? BUSH. CHENEY. THE GOP. And who were their biggest donors at the time? BIG OIL. And why did they want the war? OIL MONEY.
CIA is the biggest straw-man around that allows the people we ELECT to get away with atrocities.
Ask yourself this. By attacking the CIA, what power do you as a citizen have of affecting change? WHO in the CIA can you actually affect. People have ZERO power to affect change on the CIA. It's the perfect straw-man. ALL of your efforts and conspiracy theoring is essentially USELESS. And this is EXACTLY what the government wants.
While you target the CIA. They and their corporate overlords laugh their way to the bank, taking away YOUR rights, YOUR chance at the American dream, YOUR right to healthcare, YOUR right to a fair taxation system. And every 4 years, you with your manipulated vote fall for it because you are looking into the wrong places.
Your ignorance in this conversation, in your view of the real world, is why this world is fucked and will be fucked for a long time. Continue your useless brigade against the CIA that will go no where and do nothing and affect zero change.
Yes the corrupt parts of the IC are only the bottom of the totem pole of the evil plaguing our country but it doesn't mean those complicit in it are innocent. They are the fall guys setup for when the foreign interests get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. I believe it goes IC > Foreign interests > Bankers > "Aliens" in my personal theory.
The CIA is a tool but it is being used for wrong. But the people allowing themselves to be used after finding out what it is all about for the sake of comfort in their life are just as guilty. And it is not just the CIA the military industrial complex is like a government all in its own with its own set of laws to boot.
Your theory doesn't make sense because the CIA doesn't do anything without government approval. The powers that make the decisions are in the hands of politicians, always have been, always will be. This is how the constitution and the entire structure of government is set up.
Yes CIA is a tool. Their job is to do spy work and such. But none of that work happens unless elected officials want it to happen. It's the JOB of the CIA to follow what elected officials do who are supposed to represent the American people. But they DONT. They represent their own selfish interests or those of their corporate overlords. It's NOT the CIA's job to determine what's the "right" thing to do. They have no say in the matter.
The world isn't as simple as there's evil parts and good parts. Every single person in the world is a mixture of both. And government is just a reflection of people. SOME in CIA might have a happy grin as they bomb civilians, SOME might not be able to sleep at night for a month, but ALL of them do so because they believe they are serving the American people's interests while doing it. But their not, because of corporate takeover, they serve corporate interests.
Nah I would very much argue that there are factions within the CIA that would prefer they have say over what their agency does. And they accomplish that by blackmailing politicians with their alleged brownstone blackmail operations. You drive home the point that they need the okay from a government oversight figure of some kind. While true they can easily corrupt them into being complicit. But I believe you are downplaying the rogue element within the CIA.
Do you truly believe they are happy to just serve one master or another? That with all the power they do have they might not have ideas about how things should be ran? While I believe they do not let anyone into power without certain forms of controlling them. Whether it be blackmail or threats against loved ones, or financial consequences. Along with the alleged games they can play with peoples minds with sophisticated technology, it is hard to believe they are that passive.
Well, a couple of years ago here, on the west coast, the FBI stopped a terrorist from blowing up a large Xmas celebration.
It came out a little later that they had, not only recruited him but had actually given him the bomb and told him where to take it.
Very impressive...
The intelligence community cares about protecting the empire of corporate interests that you just railed against. There's plenty of evidence for that...
I would love to see your source on that. The CIA protects the empire. The CIA has no control that that empire just happens to have been taken over by corporate interests instead of the people's interests. That's the people's fault for being so fuckin ignorant and letting laws shit like Citizens United happen.
Remember the Iraq war? You probably think the CIA lied to go to war. You probably didn't read the now declassified (due to FOIA) act report where the CIA states explicitly that Iraq having WMDs was NOT reliable. So who lied to the American public and misrepresented the CIA's findings? BUSH. CHENEY. THE GOP. And who were their biggest donors at the time? BIG OIL. And why did they want the war? OIL MONEY.
Iran-Contra? SAME FUCKIN THING.
CIA is the biggest straw-man around that allows the people we ELECT to get away with atrocities.
As for the CIA.... I mean, come on, man. They're an arm of the government that is quite aware that war, drugs and oil are the biggest money makers there are.
How was the CIA started? How many atrocities, overthrows of publicly elected governments, drug running, assassinations etc.. are they implicated in?
Perhaps it is naive of the public to think that the govt is actually looking out for the interests of its, or other people. (That is what they say). But, I don't think it alleviates that governments enforcers of complicity...
Read it. It wasn't just that it "came out a little later that they had, not only recruited him but had actually given him the bomb and told him where to take it." That's not the whole story.
They monitored him for months, saw that he was talking to a terrorist recruiter. FBI has reason to believe he was dangerous. Rather than sit back and hope they catch him in the act and possibly be too late. They set up a situation for him to kill people. He still acted on a that situation to kill people. The FBI were right about their motives and proved it. Actually pretty clever on the FBI's part.
They are an arm of the government that acts on and is directed by who? The elected government. It's simple as that. Iraq war and Iran-Contra didn't happen because CIA made a call, it happened because the elected officials made a call.
Yes atrocities, yes overthrow of governments, yes drug running, yes assassinations etc. They carry out the dirty work. But they do it because they have a duty to the American people to follow what they think the American People want. And the American people are represented by the elected officials. No one makes a call on ANY of those missions without the consent of government. That's just how our government is set up.
The CIA is a perfect straw-man. They look so so evil. But while we waste our time blaming them we leave those who are ACTUALLY responsible unaccounted for.
If we continue to waste our time attacking the straw-man we will NEVER affect change. As a private citizen, there is NOTHING, NADA, ZIP that we can do to affect the CIA. We can only affect our government through our vote. And by blaming the CIA for the world's problems, we stay ignorant to the fact that it's actually the government who makes these calls.
Hey. Thanks for that response. I don't think I entirely disagree with you. (Though I don't think being an evil bunch murdering drug runners will ever be without blame)
I have to say, I think a lot of the blame lies with our un-elected officials but, the elected ones , in my.opinion, are a complete travesty as well. They are basically serving the people who pay them, and I don't think they're content to survive on the 'meager' salaries that taxpayers allot them.
As for the Corvallis kid, there's a long back story. He's a Somalian kid in Corvallis (not particularly diverse)
My problem with the situation was, instead of taking this unhappy kid and setting him straight, they set him up to make themselves look like heroes. (My take)
Happy that you are at least open to my ideas. That's a tough thing to find these days. So kudos to you :). Again I'm not asking anyone to believe me on blind faith, I just want people to make sure they look at both sides of every issues. Because this world is a complicated place and happenings in this world can't be explained by some anonymous author fake news site that has an article 3 paragraphs long that a lot of people here take as news. Reality and the true story are always tougher to understand that what is usually presented around these parts.
On the Somalian dude. Yeh, I agree the FBI might have been able to handle it in a more humane way. But again, I'm not sure how intense their work load is or how many resources they have available to change someone's beleifs from one of a hateful terrorist directed one to a good one that can function in society. But that doesn't mean I don't hope for that day soon.
At the end of the day, I just want people to start paying attention to their elected officials. Not what they say (because we all know those are lies) but what they actually do. Like DIG IN and look at what their actually policies are, then read reports and analysis on those policies to see how they would affect the real world.
I can guarantee no one on this sub was kicking up a storm while Citizens United was passing. And that was a DIRECT and in plain sight reduction of the power of the people. Corporations are winning the war against people. And no ones wants to shine a light on that because they are too busy looking into the wrong things.
Evil will never be stamped out because they justify themselves by saying good cannot exist without evil. Now I believe that to be true in the way that you cannot appreciate happiness without sadness. But it is quite obvious the balance of the scales is out of wack. The method of shedding decades of programming is not an easy one. They use modernization against us as the government has worked very very hard to control the infrastructure. With money being the glue that keeps this wacky system still going.
How to keep our pursuit of human evolution and the good of the world means we as a collective need to conquer our primal human instincts. They are there and rightfully exist. But I believe they exist as a test for us to pass so we can further the greatness of our planet as a whole. And perhaps eventually become a good influence onto other civilizations. But to conquer human nature is probably the most difficult thing I can imagine for society to accomplish. I believe everything has a good and bad side that has to be balanced. While lust can be evil if you lust for power, pleasure at the expense of another.. the list goes on. It can also be a good thing to lust for a greater cause such as eliminating hunger, war, and other human made tragedies. But it almost seems it is a universal truth that to survive you must consume something else! Even if it is a plant, our biological rules of this planet dictates we must consume something to survive and create energy. Even plants must consume carbon dioxide and sunlight to survive. Although that is incomparable to eating an intelligent life-form. Good and evil may exist but not in the social constructs we put it in.
Hey. Thanks for that response. I don't think I entirely disagree with you. (Though I don't think being an evil bunch murdering drug runners will ever be without blame)
I have to say, I think a lot of the blame lies with our un-elected officials but, the elected ones , in my.opinion, are a complete travesty as well. They are basically serving the people who pay them, and I don't think they're content to survive on the 'meager' salaries that taxpayers allot them.
As for the Corvallis kid, there's a long back story. He's a Somalian kid in Corvallis (not particularly diverse)
My problem with the situation was, instead of taking this unhappy kid and setting him straight, they set him up to make themselves look like heroes. (My take)
28 comments
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
This whole sub lets corrupt immorality exists by focusing on fake conspiracies and fake corruption all while corruption happens in plain sight through lobbyists and special interests control of the entire government.
The enemy isn't some CIA boogeyman, who's job it is to protect the American people. The enemy is corporations who BUY the people's power away from them. And this happens in plain view with NOTHING to stop it, except liberals who try and fail.
n/a lookingforrealtruth 2017-03-11
Seemingly one way to stop evil would be to not do what evil wants. (such as: don't use money).
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Sorry no. That's just looking the other way again. Pinning evil on something that most likely doesn't exist. All while ignorant to corruption in plain sight. Is the government supposed to be representing the people? Yes. Do they? No, they represent who pays their cheques and that's corporations.
n/a joe462 2017-03-11
Ah yes. We can all feel so much safer knowing the CIA is out there protecting us.
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Do you know how many cases of terrorism were prevented last year?
n/a TheMadBonger 2017-03-11
Perhaps very true, I wish they would publish more stories like that in the media than their agenda driven brain washing. Positive PR would work wonders for them right now. It can't possibly be because they lack actual evidence of them doing good. I know there are plenty of good willed folks working in any arm of the government, but there is definitely and eerie silence about specific cases of terrorism being stopped.
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
It's just not news when an attack doesn't happen. it's only news if harm is done.
It's really up to people to have common sense. I mean it's not a reach to believe that US has lots of enemies, and it's not a reach to assume that our law enforcement and CIA are stopping them. It's just common sense.
n/a TheMadBonger 2017-03-11
Well I'm not giving the CIA any huge amount of credit for stopping terrorist attacks. They really need to do actual verifiable good to fix their reputation because they are becoming a household name as the evil side of the government. And their leadership has shown that is what they like to do. Not the agents on the ground, but their leadership. Personally I believe they are used for far different purposes.
The CIA exists to do the illegal things the government does not want to be tied to. And honestly why wouldn't our government want to be tied to stopping a terrorist? They have experimented on humans without their permission and have blackmailed and intimidated our own citizens. It is almost harder to find the good they have done rather than the reverse.
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
CIA does work for US government interests yes. But who signs off and approves their work? THE PRESIDENT.
Remember the Iraq war? You probably think the CIA lied to go to work. You probably didn't read the now declassified (due to FOIA) act report where the CIA states explicitly that Iraw having WMDs was NOT reliable. So who lied to the American public and misrepresented the CIA's findings? BUSH. CHENEY. THE GOP. And who were their biggest donors at the time? BIG OIL. And why did they want the war? OIL MONEY.
CIA is the biggest straw-man around that allows the people we ELECT to get away with atrocities.
n/a I11uminaughty 2017-03-11
HAHAAAHAHAAAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAAA!
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Name one time the CIA did something without it being approved by Government.
Iraq War? Nope. Iran-Contra? Nope.
Have an understanding of how your government and country ACTUALLY works so that we can start targeting the corruption that happens in plain sight.
n/a I11uminaughty 2017-03-11
HAHHAHAHHAAAHAHAAAAA!!!!
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Ask yourself this. By attacking the CIA, what power do you as a citizen have of affecting change? WHO in the CIA can you actually affect. People have ZERO power to affect change on the CIA. It's the perfect straw-man. ALL of your efforts and conspiracy theoring is essentially USELESS. And this is EXACTLY what the government wants.
While you target the CIA. They and their corporate overlords laugh their way to the bank, taking away YOUR rights, YOUR chance at the American dream, YOUR right to healthcare, YOUR right to a fair taxation system. And every 4 years, you with your manipulated vote fall for it because you are looking into the wrong places.
n/a I11uminaughty 2017-03-11
Blah blah blah, say more bullshit in caps. You're hilarious.
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Your ignorance in this conversation, in your view of the real world, is why this world is fucked and will be fucked for a long time. Continue your useless brigade against the CIA that will go no where and do nothing and affect zero change.
n/a I11uminaughty 2017-03-11
Your lies are hilarious. Keep them coming.
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Prove me wrong maybe? Instead of laughing ignorantly?
n/a TheMadBonger 2017-03-11
Yes the corrupt parts of the IC are only the bottom of the totem pole of the evil plaguing our country but it doesn't mean those complicit in it are innocent. They are the fall guys setup for when the foreign interests get caught with their hands in the cookie jar. I believe it goes IC > Foreign interests > Bankers > "Aliens" in my personal theory.
The CIA is a tool but it is being used for wrong. But the people allowing themselves to be used after finding out what it is all about for the sake of comfort in their life are just as guilty. And it is not just the CIA the military industrial complex is like a government all in its own with its own set of laws to boot.
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Your theory doesn't make sense because the CIA doesn't do anything without government approval. The powers that make the decisions are in the hands of politicians, always have been, always will be. This is how the constitution and the entire structure of government is set up.
Yes CIA is a tool. Their job is to do spy work and such. But none of that work happens unless elected officials want it to happen. It's the JOB of the CIA to follow what elected officials do who are supposed to represent the American people. But they DONT. They represent their own selfish interests or those of their corporate overlords. It's NOT the CIA's job to determine what's the "right" thing to do. They have no say in the matter.
The world isn't as simple as there's evil parts and good parts. Every single person in the world is a mixture of both. And government is just a reflection of people. SOME in CIA might have a happy grin as they bomb civilians, SOME might not be able to sleep at night for a month, but ALL of them do so because they believe they are serving the American people's interests while doing it. But their not, because of corporate takeover, they serve corporate interests.
n/a TheMadBonger 2017-03-11
Nah I would very much argue that there are factions within the CIA that would prefer they have say over what their agency does. And they accomplish that by blackmailing politicians with their alleged brownstone blackmail operations. You drive home the point that they need the okay from a government oversight figure of some kind. While true they can easily corrupt them into being complicit. But I believe you are downplaying the rogue element within the CIA.
Do you truly believe they are happy to just serve one master or another? That with all the power they do have they might not have ideas about how things should be ran? While I believe they do not let anyone into power without certain forms of controlling them. Whether it be blackmail or threats against loved ones, or financial consequences. Along with the alleged games they can play with peoples minds with sophisticated technology, it is hard to believe they are that passive.
n/a irwin_normal 2017-03-11
Well, a couple of years ago here, on the west coast, the FBI stopped a terrorist from blowing up a large Xmas celebration.
It came out a little later that they had, not only recruited him but had actually given him the bomb and told him where to take it.
Very impressive...
The intelligence community cares about protecting the empire of corporate interests that you just railed against. There's plenty of evidence for that...
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
I would love to see your source on that. The CIA protects the empire. The CIA has no control that that empire just happens to have been taken over by corporate interests instead of the people's interests. That's the people's fault for being so fuckin ignorant and letting laws shit like Citizens United happen.
Remember the Iraq war? You probably think the CIA lied to go to war. You probably didn't read the now declassified (due to FOIA) act report where the CIA states explicitly that Iraq having WMDs was NOT reliable. So who lied to the American public and misrepresented the CIA's findings? BUSH. CHENEY. THE GOP. And who were their biggest donors at the time? BIG OIL. And why did they want the war? OIL MONEY. Iran-Contra? SAME FUCKIN THING.
CIA is the biggest straw-man around that allows the people we ELECT to get away with atrocities.
n/a irwin_normal 2017-03-11
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Portland_car_bomb_plot
That's wikipedia.
As for the CIA.... I mean, come on, man. They're an arm of the government that is quite aware that war, drugs and oil are the biggest money makers there are.
How was the CIA started? How many atrocities, overthrows of publicly elected governments, drug running, assassinations etc.. are they implicated in?
Perhaps it is naive of the public to think that the govt is actually looking out for the interests of its, or other people. (That is what they say). But, I don't think it alleviates that governments enforcers of complicity...
n/a HelperBot_ 2017-03-11
Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010_Portland_car_bomb_plot
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n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Read it. It wasn't just that it "came out a little later that they had, not only recruited him but had actually given him the bomb and told him where to take it." That's not the whole story.
They monitored him for months, saw that he was talking to a terrorist recruiter. FBI has reason to believe he was dangerous. Rather than sit back and hope they catch him in the act and possibly be too late. They set up a situation for him to kill people. He still acted on a that situation to kill people. The FBI were right about their motives and proved it. Actually pretty clever on the FBI's part.
They are an arm of the government that acts on and is directed by who? The elected government. It's simple as that. Iraq war and Iran-Contra didn't happen because CIA made a call, it happened because the elected officials made a call.
Yes atrocities, yes overthrow of governments, yes drug running, yes assassinations etc. They carry out the dirty work. But they do it because they have a duty to the American people to follow what they think the American People want. And the American people are represented by the elected officials. No one makes a call on ANY of those missions without the consent of government. That's just how our government is set up.
The CIA is a perfect straw-man. They look so so evil. But while we waste our time blaming them we leave those who are ACTUALLY responsible unaccounted for.
If we continue to waste our time attacking the straw-man we will NEVER affect change. As a private citizen, there is NOTHING, NADA, ZIP that we can do to affect the CIA. We can only affect our government through our vote. And by blaming the CIA for the world's problems, we stay ignorant to the fact that it's actually the government who makes these calls.
n/a irwin_normal 2017-03-11
Hey. Thanks for that response. I don't think I entirely disagree with you. (Though I don't think being an evil bunch murdering drug runners will ever be without blame)
I have to say, I think a lot of the blame lies with our un-elected officials but, the elected ones , in my.opinion, are a complete travesty as well. They are basically serving the people who pay them, and I don't think they're content to survive on the 'meager' salaries that taxpayers allot them.
As for the Corvallis kid, there's a long back story. He's a Somalian kid in Corvallis (not particularly diverse)
My problem with the situation was, instead of taking this unhappy kid and setting him straight, they set him up to make themselves look like heroes. (My take)
n/a CaptainKompromat 2017-03-11
Happy that you are at least open to my ideas. That's a tough thing to find these days. So kudos to you :). Again I'm not asking anyone to believe me on blind faith, I just want people to make sure they look at both sides of every issues. Because this world is a complicated place and happenings in this world can't be explained by some anonymous author fake news site that has an article 3 paragraphs long that a lot of people here take as news. Reality and the true story are always tougher to understand that what is usually presented around these parts.
On the Somalian dude. Yeh, I agree the FBI might have been able to handle it in a more humane way. But again, I'm not sure how intense their work load is or how many resources they have available to change someone's beleifs from one of a hateful terrorist directed one to a good one that can function in society. But that doesn't mean I don't hope for that day soon.
At the end of the day, I just want people to start paying attention to their elected officials. Not what they say (because we all know those are lies) but what they actually do. Like DIG IN and look at what their actually policies are, then read reports and analysis on those policies to see how they would affect the real world.
I can guarantee no one on this sub was kicking up a storm while Citizens United was passing. And that was a DIRECT and in plain sight reduction of the power of the people. Corporations are winning the war against people. And no ones wants to shine a light on that because they are too busy looking into the wrong things.
n/a TheMadBonger 2017-03-11
Evil will never be stamped out because they justify themselves by saying good cannot exist without evil. Now I believe that to be true in the way that you cannot appreciate happiness without sadness. But it is quite obvious the balance of the scales is out of wack. The method of shedding decades of programming is not an easy one. They use modernization against us as the government has worked very very hard to control the infrastructure. With money being the glue that keeps this wacky system still going.
How to keep our pursuit of human evolution and the good of the world means we as a collective need to conquer our primal human instincts. They are there and rightfully exist. But I believe they exist as a test for us to pass so we can further the greatness of our planet as a whole. And perhaps eventually become a good influence onto other civilizations. But to conquer human nature is probably the most difficult thing I can imagine for society to accomplish. I believe everything has a good and bad side that has to be balanced. While lust can be evil if you lust for power, pleasure at the expense of another.. the list goes on. It can also be a good thing to lust for a greater cause such as eliminating hunger, war, and other human made tragedies. But it almost seems it is a universal truth that to survive you must consume something else! Even if it is a plant, our biological rules of this planet dictates we must consume something to survive and create energy. Even plants must consume carbon dioxide and sunlight to survive. Although that is incomparable to eating an intelligent life-form. Good and evil may exist but not in the social constructs we put it in.
n/a irwin_normal 2017-03-11
Hey. Thanks for that response. I don't think I entirely disagree with you. (Though I don't think being an evil bunch murdering drug runners will ever be without blame)
I have to say, I think a lot of the blame lies with our un-elected officials but, the elected ones , in my.opinion, are a complete travesty as well. They are basically serving the people who pay them, and I don't think they're content to survive on the 'meager' salaries that taxpayers allot them.
As for the Corvallis kid, there's a long back story. He's a Somalian kid in Corvallis (not particularly diverse)
My problem with the situation was, instead of taking this unhappy kid and setting him straight, they set him up to make themselves look like heroes. (My take)