Yes, its bad because the lying scum bag public servants are exposed for the filth that they are, which makes it more difficult to lie to the American people.

Let's be honest, if Russian shills exist, they're doing a shit job.

It's just an excuse for how poor of a job the actual shills are doing.

Well they can't help but be blatantly fucking obvious about their intentions, can they? It's like shooting fish in a barrel at this point lol

What is your opinion about cover up?

What is your opinion of public, even private, figures being targeted by a foreign nation for political reasons?

I believe Russia and China's governments have been doing this for awhile against political opponents and opposition. I don't really hear much of the story about what the U.S. has done, though.

Let's be honest, if Russian shills exist, they're doing a shit job.

Or posting on the wrong forums...

Let's be honest, if Russian shills exist, they're doing a shit job.

Yeah it's not like Donald Trump won the election or anything.

See would believe that if the main strewn media told me not to

It's not the same though. CIA shouldn't be doing this to American's while the Russia should be since they are an enemy right?

What a lazy strawman.

I'm not sure which "Russia narrative" you're referring to specifically, but frankly I'd be surprised if Russian intelligence were not actively trying to gain access to Democratic and Republican campaign IT services, and given the apparent lack of security from the Dems, I'd be astonished if they tried and failed to get that access.

But I think your point is somewhat valid: of what we've been shown, there's not much hard evidence that the leaked emails from DNC and Podesta actually came from Russia. If the security was as lax as it seems, half the script kiddies around the world could have broken in, let alone the possibility of an inside leaker.

Are you a US citizen or foreigner?

Whistleblowers absolutely came from within. Most of the emails were leaked by the State Department, Podesta's were hacked by people using a Russian address and Russian software which makes it highly unlikely the Russian state was involved.

This. I dont get why people think it so hard to get Russian hardware and software. You can literally use a virtual Russian keyboard to code in thus giving the Russian feel to it and people act like theyve never heard of a IP spoofing or even a TOR like network where you can choose your location(theyre real)

What upsets me is:

1) NSA is collecting everything on us, FBI and CIA spy on us and "wiretap" and can do it without any repercussions.

2) Their people can apparently unmask anyone so this supposed protection of US Citizens is worthless. It being done for political gain os exactly the fears we all have who protested this. What will be next? Unmasking Campaign for Liberty donors and leaking their private info to their employers so they get fired or insurance gets dropped or whatever. If they can do it to a 4 Star General then us plebs are doomed.

3) the protections against a second Watergate with the FISA court now has been turned on its head and turned into the opposite. Through secret courts with unelected judges we can have sevret wareants on any one od us. Sure it is supposed to be used when foreign intelligence is suspected but here we see them twisting the truth to gain the warrant. And there is no record of it what was said because the FISA court keeps no record on purpose. That also means there is no repercussions for abusing it. No accountability for corruption. No recourse for the wronged and nothing to stop the seeker from committing perjury while getting a FISA warrant.

You are saying why doesn't the end justify the means. This is why. Same reason we don't dox on here also. Snowden is a hero for leaking our government's crimes but to iirc he never leaked personal data or calls to the press.

Even the hero that leaked the DNC corruption and Podesta emails still did commit a crime violating his privacy and stealing from him. We can be glad to see the truth behind the Hillary facade to her rotten core but none of us wants to have our emails stolen and posted for everyone.

It's not. Their argument for spying on us was "if you got nothing to hide, you got nothing to fear", so I'm holding these bastards to the same standard.

https://endchan.xyz/pol/res/35513.html

Still nobody cracking it?

What is it?

It is supposedly Julian Assange's deadman switch blockchain.

Personally I'm outraged by the continents of these emails.

It's perfectly fine for" big brother" to watch us... But when "Mother Russia " watches them it doesn't feel so good xD bahahaha

It's perfectly fine for government to have secrets and privacy, yet they do not hold that view for the public.

Notice what is happening though, Intel into the cia, which is normally very private, and with the leaked emails; the public wants to know the secrets and look into the private dealings of our government, and the public also does not want to be spied on.

So it's hypocrisy on both sides.

But I know it's not black and white, either or. in this case it's our elected officials so the public has the right to know what those elected officials do in their private dealings. This imo gets deflected to Russia as fuel to promote sentiments similar to how Bush got us to believe in the desert boogeymen after 9/11, especially since Cheney is part of promoting that narrative. If anyone trusts a word out of the mouths of the one who were in office during 9/11 I recommend not to.

Notice what is happening though, Intel into the cia, which is normally very private, and with the leaked emails; the public wants to know the secrets and look into the private dealings of our government, and the public also does not want to be spied on. So it's hypocrisy on both sides.

Well, the difference is that the government works for us, the people. Their actions are (at least supposed to be) all intended toward the public good, so I think there's a greater expectation of accountability.

Accountability and Transparency. Two buzzwords that you hear about but never see in action.

We actually have third party transparency. We get it from assange and whoever else is being that outlet. We don't get source transparency directly from the gov.

third party transparency is also questioned. So ultimately it's up to us to create our own version of transparency through the info we acquire.

The thing is that there are two separate issues here.

One is that corruption is exposed. That part is absolutely good.

The other concern is that a foriegn country could try to install the leader they want by seeking and exposing corruption on only one side. It's still great that corruption is exposed, but at the same time you have to recognize that the party has an agenda (that isn't to expose corruption for the peoples sake) and you might not be getting the whole picture. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Whether it is worth it is up for debate. Personally I wouldn't like Saudi Arabia or whoever digging up dirt on Republicans, because you have to ask yourself who is this helping more, our people or SA government.

yup thank you, people aren't getting the nuance and surprise surprise, your post is hardly voted up where as a completely informationless

Fuck them

is being upvtoed.

So exposure is good but only if that exposure wasn't committed by a foreign country like the Russians? If that is so we should be happy then. As of now the DNC leak was a exactly as it is called - a leak not a hacking job from a foreign government.

Whoa man, you should go testify at the house committee! They're sitting there listening to the dopey head of the NSA and FBI, I bet they can't wait to hear a random redditors findings.

Maybe you should read the transcripts from the hearings instead of being influenced by opinion news sources or MSM. However it's an ongoing investigation so time will tell.

I watched them actually. Care to provide a quote where they say it is a leak?

You watch and did not hear DNC Leaks mentioned? Like several times. Leaks leaks leaks. Podesta's email was suggested as being hacked but not proven. The hacking is speculation.

Its not. Thats the propaganda spin for the brain dead sheep.

Lmao I didn't realize this sub held so much edge 😂

I'm definitely​ coming here more often

Wake up sheeple! 😂😂👌😂👌

Email continents are surely something to worry about.

Antarctica confirmed!

This attachment is taking forever to download

Don't talk about what's in those mails! The most important thing is who leaked it !!!

Also, if you need to know what's on wikileaks, refer to CNN for explanation.

I think the thing that upsets some people is the leaks were not done in the name of transparency, they were done to trash one side to give an advantage to one side in an election. It's not likely that the people who found the documents found them and were compelled to release them out of public interest. Instead, they decided to try and sway the election and went out looking for things to use towards that end.

No.

Pizzagate is real :-)

Sadly, you can look at what was revealed in the UK a few years ago and see it's not unprecedented. It could be, but that still wouldn't change the motivation for the hacking in the first place

Yep, you are right about that. I can't comprehend the reasoning that this is the only way to keep goverments (or rulling elite) tight. I reckon it isn't the case in China or Russia probably (wild guess). We'll see what it amounts too.

It's only a bad thing for the politician.

Which continent is it OP?

Ayy the best of continents indeed

It's possible to be concerned about both the contents of the emails and who leaked them. It doesn't have to be one or the other.

It is true that "leaking" in itself is a bad thing for our country if the information/gathering is classified and there is no consequences. But "leaking" of emails of corrupt politicians should be called "whistleblowing" instead. That should absolutely be protected. IMHO.

"In a free society, the government is transparent and the people have a right to privacy; in a police state, the people are supposed to be transparent and the government claims that it has a right to privacy."

Well, you see: Why leaking emails of public figures is bad is because it treats allegedly "transparent" figures as if they're as vulnerable to scrutiny as the private citizen [who has Fifth Amendment protections on his privacy in the Constitution].

Despite that Fifth Amendment protect, the government claims that it has a right to spy on you.

Whereas, having absolutely NO Fifth Amendment protection and no expectation of privacy, public figures are infuriated at being treated like how they demand to treat YOU.

See French Revolution.

First of all, contents*.

Second of all, there was nothing of substance in those emails.

Third, what we have now is possible collusion between a candidate for the presidency and a foreign government with a history of hostile behavior directed at the United States. It's the exact same thing that Watergate was: A burglary committed in order to obtain information held secret by the opposing party. Only this one is digital, and has the added bonus of collusion with an enemy government.

That's why people care.

Absolutely nothing. Oh, well, except for proof the DNC is scheming and corrupt. How dare anyone let the people find that out! The DNC interfered with the election more than the bogeyman "Russians" did by releasing emails that made the DNC look bad.

If "politicians have a preference in who they elect" surprises you, and furthermore, it surprises you that preference is a lifelong-Democrat and not an independent who shares some of those same ideals but not all of them, you're naive.

The DNC interfered with nothing. People just have opinions and they're absolutely allowed to have opinions.

Nice assumption. May be you're the one who hasn't actually read them. Here's something to get you started. http://www.mostdamagingwikileaks.com/old-leaks

Got a source that isn't ridiculously partisan?

If the emails are no big deal, how did releasing them interfere with the election? Kind of a conflict in narratives for you there, huh? Lol.

Because voters are stupid and believed the narrative over the facts.

Same reason the James Comey letter affected the election.

I'm sorry you're still so upset Hills lost. It will be ok. They'll be more stooges to pick from in 2020. You'll get another choice between a turd sandwich and a gigantic douche, like every election.

People like you are the problem.

You think all politicians are the same. They aren't.

And someone like Trump is far worse than any of them.

Lol! Ok. Yeah, Trump is worse than Bush, a war criminal of the worst kind. Or Obama, that bombed 7 countries in 8 years while proudly holding his Nobel peace prize. At least give the guy time to earn his inevitable fuck ups before you say that.

What he does is far more damaging.

Bush and Obama have foreign policy discrepancies. Domestic policies are the ones that forever damage a nation.

Which policies have been enacted, not proposed or passing a pretty meaningless executive order, but actually ENACTED so far that have forever damaged the nation? I want links and sources. You can't claim that when the guy has been in office a couple months. Come back after a couple years and say that and I'll probably agree with you.

I'm not talking about policies.

I'm talking about the rampant self-enrichment and cronyism. I'm talking about exploiting the public's apathy to make himself and his friends richer.

A president should not be able to spent every weekend golfing at resorts he owns on the taxpayer dime with this little outrage from the public. It sets a terrible precedent that people in this country straight-up don't care.

And that says nothing of the implications with Russia. Those are bad but likely isolated. This level of blatant disregard for basic ethics is a message to future politicians that they can conduct themselves similarly. It's how a kleptocracy starts.

None of anything you mentioned is not something nearly every major politician has done. The only difference is the media is actually covering these things unlike they did for the last 8 years at least. The MSM is whipping people into a hysteria that they're going to use for a nefarious purpose. You'll see. In see no point in continuing this conversation because the Russia thing is obviously your first "conspiracy" and you have little education on the long history of corruption and cronyism that has not only permeated the whole political system, but has actually become synonymous with it.

You're just wrong.

Trump is far and away worse than any politician has been. At least in the US.

I don't know what else to say. You're wrong. You're blatantly wrong.

Sorry. Your feelings don't speak louder than facts, regardless of what your mommy told you.

Unbelievable how far gone you people are.

Unbelievable how much slack you'll cut a career conman. A billionaire that's never given a fuck about anyone but himself.

I don't even want to know what it's like to exist in such a headspace.

Lol. I'm not a fan of ANY major politician. Save the hysterics for r politics. That shit doesn't cut it on this sub.

What do we do when a foreign government has hacked people's minds? :(

Nothing? Really, forwarding debate questions collusion against Sanders etc. etc. It should also be noted that Russian collusion with Trump has not been proven. With the leak machine Obama set up on his way out the NYT or WAPO would have published something definitive by now. The current Russiagate hysteria is an attempt to repeat the lie till it becomes an accepted belief amongst the low information voter.

No.

You don't get to "etc etc" away the contents of those emails.

Name actual things those emails contained that you think were so important.

You don't get to forgive hostile government action so easily.

Also, that's not how investigations work. There is no timetable for when conclusions should have been drawn, and "by now" is not a valid defense.

Oh fuck off. Hillary was a very unpopular candidate to many within her own party. Media collusion with her campaign was rampant, she lied repeatedly to the FBI and the public. She shouldn't have been in the candidate and the DNC got burned by rejecting its own members desires.

She won the primaries without superdelegates.

Maybe more Sanders supporters should have actually voted?

She 'won' the primaries. Go research that 'win'.

She still won.

She didn't win anything. And she's determined to continue to keep loosing.

It's a good thing but at the same time I am not comfortable with foreign governments influencing elections/domestic policy.

I am not comfortable with foreign governments influencing elections/domestic policy.

If that is true, democracy is the wrong form of government for you.

It's not but CNN would defend corrupt politicians

I think the issue is when the leaking is one-sided, then it gives the false impression that one group is uniquely corrupt.

Across the board transparency is good, but relying on leaking is awful because it means that whomever has better organizational security ends up appearing more innocent.

It's a form of propaganda where someone selectively reveal the truth, but not the whole truth. A partial truth can actually be just as misleading as a lie if it's presented the right way.

Such an important point that can't be repeated enough. This is in my mind the difference between Western propaganda and what we might call "totalitarian propaganda". The totalitarian model (NK, Soviet/Russian, Chinese) is based on presenting often demonstrably untrue claims about events through state-run media.

The Western model is more subtle, and IMO more effective, in that it presents mostly true information, but selectively. If you fact-check CNN and MSNBC, they're probably upwards of 95% presenting factual information, but only that information that conforms to a certain narrative. You could get all your information from MSM sources, and be mostly correct in the things you believe, yet still have a wildly inaccurate and incomplete picture of the world.

If Russia is responsible for those emails getting leaked it would be entirely for the purpose of influencing our election, not because they care about exposing corruption. That should alarm you, even if you appreciate (like me) the contents being shown to the public.

It is entirely possible for people to be outraged about another country attempting to influence our election by leaking emails AND the contents of the emails themselves.

It's not. But ignoring the intent of the leaks is equally as dangerous.

Intent of the leaks might be dangerous, but the content of the leaks is downright deadly.

I guess it depends. Military intel can compromise our security or the safety individuals serving. Leaking politicians dick pics is not so deadly. Leaking the the government is spying on you is...business as usual? But if you were constantly leaking real and fake information, targeted attacks towards individuals. You begin to chip away stability over time. This is clearly a new form of warfare.

100% agree with this.

You can like that there's greater transparency due to the leaks, while also being concerned for why a foreign government is hacking and leaking the information.

The content is the issue at hand. Some politicians are subjected to nonsense smear campaigns. I know it may not be a popular position on this sub, but Podesta is probably wary that people will take an email about pizza, and turn it into a story about a pedophile ring.

It's not. And you can bet the vast majority of people calling Manning and Snowden a traitor are the army of bots that the Pentagon deploys to sway public opinion

It's not.

Those with the power to call it such - It is the bravest thing an American do that is blow the whistle when they see a foul

It depends on the leak. If it uncovers corruption and unfairness but doesn't do much damage to national security it's a good thing. If it doesn't uncover any real wrongdoing but does expose secrets important to our security, it's not that good.

For example, a leak exposing CIA spying on Americans would be a positive leak, but one that just revealed weak points of our power grid that a terrorist could use would be a bad leak.

Like most things, there are a lot of shades of gray.

Considering the the 4th Estate (the press) has been throughly corrupted by corporization, interal leaks and disclosures are the only means to check the government. So, not only do i agree with practice, it is necessary.

With that being said, we have to acknowledge the major pitfall with acquiring this info is the damn info may be fabricated or skewed to mislead or misinform. Thats why sourcing evidence is so important.

My friend and I have had a great conversation about how we should redefine politicians in this country.

If you run for public office all your records should be available including emails and past history that is available and you'll get paid no more than the federal minimum wage and must live in government housing with federal healthcare. Also accepting money from lobbyists will be illegal. As we will have knowledge of bank statements before and sometime after. Also term limits.

Turn the word politician from a dirty word to something good. Also this doesn't work in a capitalist society where people with money to advertise themselves win. So, yay lobbyists.

It's bad for them. That simple

I don't care that they leaked the DNC emails but I would have preferred it if they leaked the RNC as well. It's kind if bullshit that all of the DNC's dirty laundry is out there to gawk at, but I'd love to see what the RNC has been hiding. It's only then that we can judge them all by the same standard.

Then get in there and leak it.

This is somewhat of a false equivalency though because even before the DNC leaks and Podesta leaks, anyone with a brain could see the corruption in the DNC and media in protecting Hillary and marginalizing Bernie, even after he tied her in the Iowa caucus and kicked her ass in the NH primary.

The suspicion was already there and Wikileaks confirmed it with evidence.

That didn't happen on the republican side because Trump came out of the gates winning. If the RNC or Fox News conspired against him they sure did a shit job of it.

They don't own us, they don't control us. They are beneath us. Destroy them.

It's bad because it was used to control the election of the government. There are different levels of bad. Like, if you slap your friend, it's bad, but if you slap them in order to push them out of the way of a moving car, that's good. Hillary is corrupt, yes, that's great to learn. But so is Trump. By only releasing half the dirt they got to pick which of our corrupt choices gets to be president instead of you.

I think it's about who actually orchestrated the leaks, how, and why. If a foreign government, who is to say their hand wouldn't pick another to prop up that someone defending this might not agree with? Has that government initialized a formal alliance? Does minimizing it open the possibility for U.S. political system to become even more of a proxy for foreign interests?

Is WL really staying true to their mission statement 100%, or are they picking sides?

continents of them

I, personally, am interested in the continents of the those emails. If Russia is involved, that would mean that 3 out of the 7 continents were involved. Parts of Russia are considered part of the European continent...some parts Asian...that's a pretty wide continental reach. What's that all about?

Funny enough....I even MORE fascinated about the * contents* of those emails

Notice what is happening though, Intel into the cia, which is normally very private, and with the leaked emails; the public wants to know the secrets and look into the private dealings of our government, and the public also does not want to be spied on. So it's hypocrisy on both sides.

Well, the difference is that the government works for us, the people. Their actions are (at least supposed to be) all intended toward the public good, so I think there's a greater expectation of accountability.

yup thank you, people aren't getting the nuance and surprise surprise, your post is hardly voted up where as a completely informationless

Fuck them

is being upvtoed.

So exposure is good but only if that exposure wasn't committed by a foreign country like the Russians? If that is so we should be happy then. As of now the DNC leak was a exactly as it is called - a leak not a hacking job from a foreign government.