I can't agree more. I look to the right and see 443,139 free thinkers.

That's laughable.

I think most people in this sub are aware, however, I don't know if most accounts are aware.

Neutral politics has some good discussions

You really think this user would appreciate the rules in /r/neutralpolitics?

What's wrong with the rules?

Nothing wrong with the rules. The user however...

What's wrong with the user?

They probably don't like his politics. I'm on mobile or I'd check, but judging by those users that I am very familiar with, he's probably posted in t_d.

And people posting in t_d are all retarded Nazi's right?

but judging by those users that I am very familiar with, he's probably posted in t_d.

I'm not even sure what this means but it's incorrect. The person does not post to that sub.

Then I don't have a clue what that user was implying, because that is what they are usually on about.

Oh ok, fair enough.

I'm thinking it's a hacked account. The poster has submitted about sports and video games for the last 2 years without a single mention of politics at all. Their last post before this was five days ago and again not political.

None of their submissions are political either prior. Nor any conspiracy post.

Now all of a sudden after a five day gap this user has became angry as hell at politicians for the first time ever and found his way to conspiracy to rally the troops.

Yeah I'm not buying it...sorry. This shit is getting blatant and out of control. Everyday there's a new mystery user posting here trying to incite this subreddit and turn us on each other.

He's never posted here before ever yet he's asking where to find subs that are like how it used to be. Get the fuck out of here with that.

Wow, yeah I haven't been home all day where I could check the user out. If that is the case I'm more inclined to think they sold their account. Or it is straight shill created. Those usually have a bunch of sports talk, a location sub like Canada or Boston. Then 2 hobbies and a smattering of askreddit and pics. It is so formulaic you can't unsee it once you notice. I hate to even bring it up because they will just change their moves.

Or maybe a reddit user lurked for a long time and then one day got hangry and went on a rant.

Never heard of this sub. Thanks!

R/C_S_T is my favorite

Lately thats been super trumpy lately too, but the people there are at least open minded as well as trumpy.... Theyve invaded everywhere but the soros folk seem to keep away for now.

I have NOT gotten a "trumpy" vibe from that sub. And yes they are everywhere, but that sub is calm and collected, slow and patient. Literally, they know how to spot and shut up shills. I've seen it happen.

A lot of people on that sub aren't on the "Trump is Hitler" train, and being anti Trump but open to new ideas, what they point out either positive or negative about Trump always makes me rethink the whole pizza.

People need to be vigilant and aware, we can't let those Mafia fucks take over the next social movement, it's coming and it better be in our terms.

Oh, no i love that sub. It was just slightly different when i was first there. Theres a lot more religious talk and some trump supporters. Its nothing like here.

I consider it spiritual, not religious.

I do many times but theres a lot of traditional super christian stuff... Or at least there was for a little bit.

I don't see anything wrong with critical thinkers considering Christianity to be semi legit. Even the "Christians" on there dont belive everything the bible throws out there.

Christians believe that Christ rose from the dead. That's not exactly critical thinking right there.

None of us were there, and something that I believe fundamental to the human experience (not something only religious people can have) is faith.

It's obvious there is more to this world and existence than just what the naked eye can see, so why totally write off events like Yeshua rising from the dead?

The more science/math advances the more plausible something like that becomes, not the other way around.

It's not obvious to me, at all. What makes it obvious to you?

You mean it is not critical thinking if one starts there.

Zombie day is Fucking siiick

What we know of the universe is a grain of sand in an infinite Sahara desert and many times we realize what we knew was wrong. Like the speed of light being constant all over the science community, text books and professors that was fact. Now they aren't so sure.

The more we realize the incredible chance it took to spark life and the near impossibility of consciousness well it starts to point to intelligent design.

Being stubbornly and blindly atheist takes faith too. Faith that human science is infallible which is of course not true. We see our mistakes every day and for every discovery more questions to ask this proving how little we really know.

You should check the sub, they get into some interesting shenanigans over there. Lots of fun ways to build the self too.

I think that's a fair assessment, and it has certainly changed to some degree. I think the signal's still there, but the noise has gotten louder.

On the Christian stuff, I think that's subsided a fair bit. We got tougher about removing posts that were simply quoting scripture or sermonizing, but we still allow people who want to respectfully discuss religion. There's some Trump supporters and leaners there, but I think it, too, represents a small minority. When they do come, they're either respectful or get shown the door pretty quickly, often without direct mod intervention.

I agree, its pretty good there. Probably my fav sub even when it gets momentarily over run.

/r/WeMakeTheTerror

The fake accounts are here to convince you that you are alone.

They are becoming more and more aware ever day. But in the meantime they are just natural language processing algos if they aren't uncritical meth smoking taco bell eating muppets

Ever see movie Phantasm?

You genuinely believe there is no difference in economic or foreign stability when comparing a Trump administration to a Clinton Administration?

Someone's comment ain't showing up

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But Drumpf is so evil! We must resist! Resisting meaning ruining every interesting thread with bitching and whining and regurgitating the same Russia stories the MSM is spewing all over every sub and then throwing a fit if not everyone jumps on the "muh Russia" train. Stop using your critical thinking skills and resist! Hillary still has a chance!

Trump is a fucktard tbf

A million times better than that shit cunt Hillary Clinton.

We had no choice after the DNC fucked over Bernie, Trump was the only choice that could have been made by rational Americans

Yes a man who's literally insane would be a better choice than a corrupt but somehowhat competent politician that would've kept the ball rolling, right?

You can't be corrupt and competent in the same sentence.

Yes you can. Hilary had some good in her despite her fucking over Bernie and she wouldn't want to kill net neutrality and the EPA like Trump is trying to.

If she's the choice of the media elites and establishment of both sides so much that they'd cheat to make sure she won... I don't even want to know what globalist agenda they had planned for her to push through.

I'll take anything over that level of corruption.

EPA is too regulative and needs to be cut down

I sure do miss acid rain.

EPA is there to help companies get away with shit, not to protect the environment. The US needs real regulations.

Its sort of like how people think Human Resources Departments are there to help people. No, no, no! They're there to help the companies. A pattern? Yes. Its all about helping the companies.

So, I agree -- the EPA is there to help companies get away with shit. People have to stop being misled by what things are named and spend a little goddamned time looking at what these fuckbags actually do. (The EPA is just as corrupt as any other government agency and EPA officials will do anything for that side money and those sweet high-paying corporate gigs waiting just on the other side of the revolving door.)

It never went away, it was just that someone in the EPA didn't understand the logarithmic nature of pH

It never went away,

That's some ignorant shit. As a kid, I remember helping to spread the lime that we had to buy by the ton to save their farm from the damage of acid rain. I remember measuring the PH of the rain with both strips and electronic meters with results as low as 4. As a direct result of EPA's regulations, the rain is no longer acidic and the plants grow normally again.

The charts don't lie. It's sadden that people spout garbarge that they know nothing about . What in it for you to see our air and rivers polluted again? Why do you get off of spreading false information?

So you're pro WW3 with Russia huh? Because thats what a Hillary presidency would have got us.

Sure you can. An a CEO could be corrupt and competent. The CEO might be better than anyone else at producing new revenue streams, but he also takes an illegal cut off the top.

What? Competence has nothing to do with corruption. In fact you can be very competent at being corrupt.

Sure you can be competent at being corrupted. But being corrupted by definition makes a politician incompetent.

And why is that? If a politician amasses a large fortune by being corrupt, and this was exactly why the politician decided to run, then they would be very competent.

It's not really incompetence if you are doing a bad job intentionally.

What? Yes you can. Those are not mutually exclusive traits. Why would you even think that?

Yes. as much as i think no fly zone to ground war in syria would have been better. I'm glad a lady who thinks she can talk to nancy reagan's ghost, pass out at in 70 degree weather, and uses the state department to get a child trafficker off the hook in haiti. Yeah rather not have someone who is good at corruption.

Bernie....insane?!?

From what well have you been consuming your water from?

He's pretty crazy. That's why he cut the deal with Hillary. There's known dirt on him that made him unelectable on a national level.

Ok. Please expand and show proof. I can prove Donald and Hillary are both bat shit crazy. Can you prove Bernie is?

Name calling is not an argument guys. I expect better than youtube caliber comments

"literally insane" So do you have a doctor's statement, or any kind of proof to back up this claim, or are you just butthurt and talking out of your ass?

Yes a man who's literally insane would be a better choice to be the POTUS than a corrupt but somehowhat competent politician that would've kept the ball rolling, right?

Yes, exactly.

rational Americans

argument against Hillary is that she's a "shit cunt"

Ok.

But she is.

This has 5 upvotes. Jesus this sub is shit.

Go cry somewhere else then

How about you get back to r/T_D so this sub can get back to not being a botfest?

You are the one crying about how shit the sub is.

Hillary Clinton is a disgusting piece of shit and Trump was the only option for the American people, nothing you will say will ever change that.

Sorry that i triggered you.

I'm sorry you're so blinded by your partisanship that you can't see that both candidates were absolute shit.

And anyone who thinks Trump's presidency thus far has been anything other than complete shit has been drinking way too much orange kool-aid.

That wasnt his argument against Hillary, it was just a name he called her. Do you think the guys argument for trump is that hes a fucktard?

A million times better than that shit cunt Hillary Clinton.

Do you believe that?

What age are you, not asking insultingly.

Because the leader of the nation sending tweets like he does is enough to qualify him as 12.

You're the head of the country, and he can't even pull that off. I don't care about policy or whatever else. Stop acting like a child is what I'm asking.

You'd make a better President probably, and I don't know you.

Do you believe that?

Obviously, one only has to look at her past and know that she is a disgusting shit lord.

I also love Trump tweeting as all it does is trigger the election losers, great entertainment for those of us on the winning side.

I don't agree that all his tweets do is trigger election losers. The consequences of those tweets reach much further than that.

The consequences of those tweets reach much further than that.

Such as?

USA reputation

It can't really get any worse.

I also love Trump tweeting as all it does is trigger the election losers, great entertainment for those of us on the winning side.

You do understand how childish that sounds, right?

No really. That is childish. Holy fuck.

Go read your statement. Think about it. Then read it again.

I hope you aren't of voting age, you don't understand how the US is supposed to work. We work together is the concept and you're happy we're divided. Piss off.

I had a day to think about it, I still find it hilarious that Trumps tweets trigger people like you.

Makes my day actually and I am not going any where, sorry.

but muh russian narrative!

You say "bitching and whining", I say "people being critical". It's fine to be critical of Trump, especially since he's made so many errors in his first few months.

It's very rare to see actual criticisms that are actually based on his current actions or policies, instead of the RUssia narrative, or MSM pushed talking points. So, I'm fine with the definition being bitching and whining.

It's very rare to see actual criticisms that are actually based on his current actions or policies

That's a weird thing to say given how controversial his executive orders have been.

It's not weird at all. Those are legitimate criticisms, but everyone is obsessed with Russia and saying "OMG he's literally Hitler!!!"

Well thisbis a conspiracy sub and it isnt like Russia isnt a fucked up country

You haven't seen much criticism regarding his actions or policies? Are you sure about that?

Critical implies they have an alternative to what's being done.

ruining every interesting thread with bitching and whining

He says, while bitching and whining about a strawman...

Look at his post history, that's all he does.

Well, at least all that's left after he deleted all his cheerleading posts for Trump in the_donald.

I guess if you're trying to be taken seriously in a conspiracy subreddit it certainly ruins any credibility to be spamming your support of the president and the ruling elite.

How creepy. How far back did you have to search through my history considering I posted there when I first signed up with this account? About conspiracies, which they talk about there. That says a lot more about you than it does about me. I'm flattered I have a stalker.

Don't be so upset you're being called out for being a Trump cheerleader. You had well over 100+ posts in t_d, more than any other sub on your 2 month account.

And now you delete everything and pretend like you're just into conspiracies.

The internet doesn't forget, man.

And you literally counted??? Lol! You're obsessed. What weird behavior. Oooohhh I posted in the vault 7 threads (conspiracy) about an event that happened in my town, and Seth Rich threads (conspiracy) and a thread about cultural marxism (conspiracy.) You're embarrassing yourself. Hahaha. I don't know whether to be flattered or seriously creeped out.

You're an idiot, man. Its as easy as typing in your username. You just don't know where to look.

And if I gave a duck about it, I'd just open a new account. You're creepy as fuck.

You don't give a fuck but you took the time to erase all your posts from a certain sub and then concern troll to /r/conspiracy about shills when you yourself are suspect. LOL

Removed. Rule 10.

Removed. Rules 4 & 10.

Removed. Rules 4 & 10.

That post broke neither rules.

No threats, no harassing, no accusation of being a shill either.

Read Rule 4 and then the Reddit proper TOS.

Attack the argument if you must, not the user.

You may not purposefully negate any user's actions to delete or edit their content on reddit. This is intended to respect the privacy of reddit users who delete or edit their content, and is not intended to abridge the fair use or the expressive rights shared by us all.

I suggest you try /r/outside for a bit.

Maybe you should read rule 4 and then explain how my post was harassing or threatening in any way.

And I would suggest you read the Reddit TOS too, specifically the part about content you post to reddit and what happens to it. If you don't want people to see what you post to reddit, don't post it. I would assume a moderator of a subreddit would have already known this. Seems like common sense for most people

Yeah arguing with a mod when your clearly wrong is a dumb idea.

Wrong about what? Pointing out that someone with a brand new account who only posts to two subreddits, /r/the_donald and /r/conspiracy, isn't harassing or threatening.

If you have to go through someone's whole post history to try and prove a point instead of debating the subject and topic, then you've already lost the argument.

What argument? As far as I can tell you haven't denied that you only post to two subreddits, /r/the_donald and /r/conspiracy, so what exactly are you arguing?

Willfully ignorant .

Unless you've gone through my entire post history, you wouldn't know that, first of all. So once again, creepy. And I don't need to justify where I post to anyone. Are you the Reddit posting police? If you disagree with the original comment you're responding to, then come up with a counter argument. Otherwise, you're just embarrassing yourself.

I thought you didn't care about what I'm saying either way? Yet you're still here all these hours later. You seem to care, in fact, I'm certain you care a whole lot.

And the only reason anyone brought up your post history is because you're blatantly concern trolling about what people post on this sub.

If you're gonna play the gatekeeper and attempt to sway people on this sub from talking about Russia then you deserve to get called out for your tactics and post history.

Yeah, now I'm a "gatekeeper" for disagreeing with the Russia narrative, and stating my opinions is "swaying" people. Seek mental help.

Try not to let the false consensus get you down, agendas and lies is all you will get from politics and media but a person wants a secure home for their family, a decent job to live well and 200% less of the bullshit that surrounds them 24/7. I have great hope in people, there are very few people i cant relate to - when i was younger i traveled the world for six years from the uk to syria to fiji to name a few and in every place i met the same great people.

Dont let the man get you down! :)

Stupid is stupid. There's always been that many stupid people. They are here looking for recruits. Think of this sub in the last month. The stupid people have been whipped up into a frenzy because MUHHH RUSHINS! They don't even know what they are saying or doing. They have just gone nuts. All their subs are complete echo chambers and so they have infected EVERY single other sub on reddit. Any sub with any real numbers has become just like this one.

Infected is such a perfect word. That's what they are, a disease on free thinking and rationality.

Stupid is stupid. There's always been that many stupid people. They are here looking for recruits. Think of this sub in the last month. The stupid people have been whipped up into a frenzy because MUHHH LIBERULS! They don't even know what they are saying or doing. They have just gone nuts. All their subs are complete echo chambers and so they have infected EVERY single other sub on reddit. Any sub with any real numbers has become just like this one.

Couldn't agree more. MUHHH LIBERALS!! HILLARY BAD!! Yeah.. no shit. They are all beyond criminal. Bush, Obama, Hillary.. And maybe this is the final trick. They all hate Trump.

That would be a perfect valid argument except for the fact that you find approximately zero dissenting opinions in /r/politics and other major subreddits. That is also why there seems to be an unusual number of Trump supporters in /r/conspiracy. They have been chased off from almost every top subreddit. You could tell them to stay in /r/The_Donald, but not everybody is in it for the memes.

You absolutely find dissenting opinions in other major subreddits. You might have to sort by controversial, but the user isn't banned and his post deleted like /r/the_donald.

Any human here who agrees with this statement, please do yourself a favor and look at /u/newbervanspuson

He's only been a redditor for 90 days. And yet he has post after post of MUHHH RUSHINS without a single shred of evidence to refute his claims. He doesn't link to sources to back his claims. He doesn't offer any evince otherwise.

If our sub has been infiltrated, it's not shareblue that we should be worried about.

That Russia launched an information warfare on us. Here some facts we know about that:

• Putin has made public his dislike of Hillary.

• “Gerasimov Doctrine” Russia would use information warfare in a 4 to 1 ratio over traditional military tactics.?

• Or the 2014 In the Russian journal, “Military Thought”, ‘If you’re gonna use information warfare to confuse, demoralize, divide, and distract a rival country, you do not just do it in wartime, you have to do it all the time, or it doesn’t work.’

• Or in Feb of 2016 when a Kremin official warned us, “I’m warning you: We are at the verge of having ‘something’ in the information arena, which will allow us to talk to the Americans as equals.”

There are shills on both sides. We have to be vigilant and think critically to find the truth.

I've been on r/conspiracy since it's inception. Before that it was GLP, ATS etc. And before that i the 80s it was fidonet conspiracy on BBSes. So seriously you brainless fuck.. spend some time looking around here and get your head out of your ass. The entire government is a SHAM. The GOP and DEMS work in lock step to completely dominate you, poison you, destroy your spirit. It's their job. Whenever anyone comes around who threatens them they kill that person. JFK is a great 101 for you. Start off slow. When you get through the 70s come back to the sub.

What are your thoughts on GLP these days? It used to have some of the most amazingly insightful threads on life, aliens, metaphysics, crazy stuff. But nowadays it's just a right wing forum and I miss the old shit

Haven't been in a long time to be honest. Floating around r/conspiracy everything is pretty tame. I mean.. right now the entire internet is team hillary vs team trump. It's all pretty engrossing. From my perspective we are at end game here. Financial collapse coinciding with Civil War and World War. It's going to be pointless and impossible in understanding who, what, why, how. Just have to survive if it's your destiny and accept that the lord of this world is the lord of this world because of it's willingness to commit evil and destruction no other sociopath is capable of. And still these peon sociopaths will try. Trump is a narcissist and looks capable and smart against the mid tier peon power structure. But as he pushes he will start to come face to face with who's really in control. And that power fully intends to turn this earth into a nuclear wasteland when the time comes.

Financial collapse coinciding with Civil War and World War

The financial collapse is a definite, just waiting.

Civil & WW3 is only if we allow it to happen. The suits in congress/senate/banks will not take up arms and fight. We as citizens need to kill each other to turn this into a war.

Time will tell if it goes that far. I'm hopeful it won't. TPTB will try. They will hire contractors to pose as civilians and start open firing on crowds. They will manufacture a civil war, just like they manufactured 9/11. The question is, with our current level of data & Internet, will we fall for it again?

Time will tell.

It's always the second generation down from the current controlling generation that does the fighting. In this case it will be the Millenials that are whipped up into a frenzy and run out to fight. The same groups you see out in the streets protesting right on.

will we fall for it again?

You and I might not be on the front lines.. But 'we' will. It'll be hard to avoid. It's just protest taken to another level. This world war will start as a civil war for the United States. Major Crisis wars happen every 80-100 years like clockwork. The length of a long life. We are right here.

And does Trump want to fight that effort, or be at the top of and profit from it.

There's the $64,000 question.

He wants to profit by taking control.

That's what I think too. Trump saw the cabal of billionaire assholes working to screw over the people and figured he wanted in on the racket.

Comments like this is why I keep checking out this subreddit. The variety of ideas people have boggles the mind.

The source of news should be irrelevant to people who will actually read the articles and engage in critical thinking and discussion about the content. Dismissing an article because it comes from a particular source is about the laziest, least thoughtful thing you can do.

More like 442,645 casual free thinkers and 500 fairly active shill accounts.

Be the change you wish to see

Collective action used to be the way, but now you'd just be accused of being on Soros' payroll.

but now you'd just be accused of being on Soros' payroll.

And the accuser would probably be right.

Wouldn't the accused 'know it' by getting cash?

Wouldn't the accused 'know it' by getting cash?

A check would be more likely, and neither option is going to have Soros' name printed on it.

Why would a cheque be more likely? How come I've never received any moola for going on demos? How come nobody I know ever has? How come nobody you know ever has?

Why would a cheque be more likely?

You're right. They probably prefer PayPal or some denomination of bitcoin.

Beyond the quote none whatsoever.

I see it as this election being far more conspiratorial than others. One of the biggest political stories in the history of the USA. This fall out appears normal.

Your silly personal attack doesn't mask your lack of a good post.

Do some meditation. Listen to your heart.

"As you walk, the way appears."

Only someone named /u/KarmaPolice777 can make this sound so easy.

Not easy but worth it.

r/OccupyLangley

Let's take down the elite establishment with a coordinated and driven nonpartisan fact-based movement for exposing the shadow government and all that are involved. We have the evidence. We need the dedication.

nonpartisan

Let's go after the political enemies of Donald Trump and call it non-partisan! Yea, that'll get everyone attention!

Considering everyone in politics are his enemy, sounds like pretty good criteria. Does your entire life revolve around hating trump? That sounds boring af, and if your username is actually relevant, you sound like you need a fucking hobby.

Nah, I also like to look up usernames on google. Did you know that the english definition for mastigia is "one who deserves a whipping" or a "rascal".

Why did you choose that name, I wonder?

It's latin for "rogue" or "one who must be whipped". It was the name of my mmo character. Because I enjoy latin, and playing rogues. So you could say I made my username to reflect my life.

You're point?

My point is that ones persons online persona is another's World of Warcraft avatar. If your hobby is to build upon that, then you've needn't be ashamed at all.

Why would I be ashamed? You are quite the dissembler. You still need a hobby.

That's pretty bad ass actually.

Thanks!

ah you didn't hear? He is even more a puppet because everyone hates him. It proves it even more. He is a russian puppet and will also go to war with them. He is the deep states agent, but it is also trying to discredit and destroy him. He's the next Hitler and he is a puppet of the jews. Donald is all things to all people. Just depends what you want him to be.

You can only show someone the door of truth, they have to want to walk thru it. But sometime the mind becomes a prison, forever dependent on the system. A system setup to exploit and enslave the masses into never ending debt.

Best thing you can do is to set more minds free.

"It's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled." Our task is unfool the fooled.

A system setup to exploit and enslave the masses into never ending debt.

Yes, well, to be fair, the masses are primarily enslaved by their gross stupidity.

Or blissful ignorance. Or slave to something beyond our control.

If you've ever checked out the YouTube Red show called Mind Field, it touches on conformity and how our brains are easily tricked into following the herd.

I'm sure that whoever "manages" the herd, obviously knows how easily humans are duped and only has to plant the seed, before we ourselves willingly tend to it and even desire it to grow into the cycle of despair we are also fed up with.

The only way massive change can happen, is first within the individual.

I would say the best way to create change, is to not worry about what the collective is doing, and focus on what you are doing (or not doing).

Work on bettering yourself and live through example.

I hope this doesn't sound too preachy or too non-action based. I certainly don't mean to say that you shouldn't protest or follow what sort of action feels right to you.

I mean to say that I have a lot of activist friends who are solely focused on getting other people to change and they are burning themselves out by living in perpetual anger.

It's gotten so bad within my group of friends, that they are starting to turn on one another and they are tearing themselves apart.

Quit focusing so much on meria. Television and movies have captured all your base.

Collectively - what kind of change can we do?

Don't use the word "collectively," for a start.

If Hillary lost to someone one like Trump, what does that tell you

That Russia is so powerful and has so many reddit operatives, they made HRC just look really bad.

Or...she is a worthless bag of shit and no one bought it?

Hmm. Headscratcher.

Why not both?

Because Russia is not powerful like that, their power comes from their natural resources that the EU needs and their nukes.

They are not some super villain, they are not exceptionally advanced when it comes to technology and they are not exceptionally wealthy either. Democrats pushing the new red scare are giving russia too much credit.

They didn't have universal access to what we consider modern computing until some time after the USSR went tits up. That said, they made up for lost time. They do have a very active hacker culture though, a great deal of it state sponsored, I imagine.

But with these new wikileaks, we really have to ask ourselves how much of that is really just the CIA pretending?

I wouldn't minimize Russia's cyber forces, but no one with any sense thinks they were responsible for Clinton's loss.

They do have a very active hacker culture though

No doubt due to a better designed education system. We're taught about everyone else's feelings, and how America, and especially white males, are the source of the world's evils.

Russian kids are busy learning to hack shit.

Why not both?

Because most voters aren't actually attached to social media.

As in, people who actually show up to the polls to vote. Unlike 60% of potential voters, who can't be bothered to vote.

they thought they had it in the bag and then lost now they are tripping over themselves to explain it....or.... It's a huge plot where the powers that be purposely destroy their owned MSM credibility and influence to make the most unlikely candidate in history win in order too.... really make us think he was legitimate? but he is not.. and they try to destroy him all the time...

Somewhat incoherent idea presented here.

agreed, hard keeping up with what the media narrative these days

I'll go for, "Most inept political campaign of our lifetimes" - though "terminal Dunning-Kruger syndrome" is also good.

That Russia was actively working with the Trump campaign.

Only 3 top Trump officials have resigned after the Russian connections they lied about became public. One just asked for immunity. Another committed perjury. There's plenty more connected to Russia. And the FBI and Congressional intelligence committees are actively investigating.

But probably just coincidence, right?

Down votes for commenting on Trump's connections to Russia on this sub just mean you're on the right track. Oddly enough, it's one of the few conspiracies out there that the special interests who frequent here don't want people talking about.

god if only someone, some organization had the balls to ask about the russian conspiracy. Keep digging, i bet someone will start talking about it.

That ~70,000 Americans in 3 states are gullible as shit.

Succinct. Well done.

Obama was a great president.

Pretending there is no difference in who is in power is just letting them win. Some are better than others. This thing where you pretend that they are all the same is childish oversimplification.

Obama was a great president.

How so? Stopped any wars? Decreased the deficit? Increased education? Made an impact on poverty and crime? Diminished the growth of the largest prison system with most inmates per capita? Opened up the surveillance state?

not sure how you personally measure the performance of a President but I'd say by most commonly accepted measures he is one of the worst. If not the worst in the last 80 years.

I think given the all out obstructionism of the GOP during his last 6 years he did a pretty alright job.

Bud, you are seriously in the wrong sub. And i don't say that because i believe everyone here likes the GOP or Trump.

you are seriously in the wrong sub

Why?

Because you're playing "the right did this, so the left couldn't do this, so let's all pretend that both sides aren't literally playing for the same people".

Whenever I read someone discussing the GOP, or the Dems, or the left/right, it's obvious they're not deep enough into the rabbit hole to understand how widespread this conspiracy is.

You're not. The majority of people here hate Obama, but r/conspiracy was always supposed to be about people who believe in and like to discuss various conspiracies, not people who all agree about politics.

Stopped any wars?

He didn't start any wars, which is better than half of our presidents. He inherited bullshit wars from Bush, but once you're at war you can't just walk away. It's more complicated than war=bad president.

Decreased the deficit?

Yes, by nearly $1 trillion since Bush's last year. But Bush era tax cuts for the rich are the main driving force behind the deficit, and the Republican congress is responsible for upholding those, not the president.

Increased education?

What does that even mean? He increased funding for education, yes. But there's no way to measure something as vague as "increase education". What are you looking for, test scores? Hours spent in class? Money spent?

Graduation rates hit an all-time high under Obama. Education experts rated him pretty highly. He did pretty well with education.

Made an impact on poverty and crime?

Under Obama, the poverty rate dropped the most it has since 1968.

Crime rates have been steadily falling since 1991. That continued throughout Obama's 8 years.

So, yes.

Diminished the growth of the largest prison system with most inmates per capita?

Yes. It peaked the year Obama took office, and has declined ever since. That peak is due to Bush-era policy, though. The numbers in a president's first year on most metrics is due to what happened before they got there. Overall his term showed the first decreases in decades.

Opened up the surveillance state?

No, he did not. I am not happy about his performance there, but again most of that was just continuation of Bush's actions. He didn't start the surveillance, just didn't stop it.

not sure how you personally measure the performance of a President but I'd say by most commonly accepted measures he is one of the worst. If not the worst in the last 80 years.

And where do you get that idea? He's ranked around the middle in pretty much every poll I've seen. Which is pretty common for recent presidents. They tend to move up or down after a decade or so, as the context and results of their actions are seen. His approval ratings were around the same as the previous 7 presidents - his lowest is higher than all of those, but his highest was lower than all of their's.

But of the things I'm most concerned with, health care and the economy, he did great. The ACA saved my life. Bush destroyed the economy, and Obama fixed it (as much as was possible).

Bush destroyed the economy, and Obama fixed it (as much as was possible).

AHAHHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHHHAHH

I'd love to see you try and explain that one in your own words without linking some boneheaded nonsense from MSNBC/CNN/FOX or whatever

Seriously.. Wrong sub friend. Bush and Obama are pedo blood brothers. That's the base understanding of 'political' talk here. I subscribe to that base wholeheartedly. Obama and Bush probably raped an infant together in a ceremony to pass along the levers of power. Obama didn't start any wars? Syria.. Libya.. Arab Springs all over and a few failed attempts as well. Like Ukraine and Russia. Although that shitty warpath is still going.

Obama is a sack of sociopathic shit along with Bush.

Bush destroyed the economy, and Obama fixed it

How's that $20 trillion in debt going? How's that housing bubble going? Or was it the commercial real estate bubble? No wait, it's the massive student loan bubble. Oh and did you hear a shitty app that lets you take pictures of yourself is worth $20 billion dollars?. Yeah that's not a bubble. I guess everything's fine man let's raise those interest rates to the moon and shoot for the stars

Ask congress everything you are bitching about is their fault and guess who has controlled congress for the last 6 years?

Sorry, but Libya? The droner in chief? Drones where 90% of their kills weren't the intended targets?

He expanded the surveillance state. Took what Bush did and expanded it. War on whistleblowers after campaigning on whistleblower protection and government transparency?

He was shit. As someone who voted for him in 2008, I'm glad he's gone.

not sure how you personally measure the performance of a President but I'd say by most commonly accepted measures he is one of the worst. If not the worst in the last 80 years.

Only complete idiots and Republican partisans think this.

Obama is a sack of shit as are the GOP, Bush, Democrats.. This is r/conspiracy where we know who the enemies of humanity are.

Is that why Obama left Trump in 7 active wars when Bush left Obama with only 2?

All of those 7 active "wars" caused far less loss of life than one of Bush's. Also, I don't think you know what the word "war" means.

So modernized warfare isn't "war"? Drone warfare isn't "war"?

All use of drones isn't war. War has a specific definition. What you are referring to is called "conflict".

War: "a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."

This is exactly what Obama orchestrated in office. War. Armed conflict = US armed with drones spying on and bombing different nations/states/groups.

I don't think you understand what war means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States#21st_century_wars

No.

Let's ask all the countries Obama bombed if they feel the US is at war with them

Obama was a great president.

No he wasn't, he done nothing but fail to delivery on his promises.

I know using Politifact is controversial here, but they have a pretty comprehensive collection of his promises and which ones he's kept:

48.4% were kept

27.4% were compromises

24.2% were broken

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

Neat, but doesn't really mean anything unless we compare it to other presidents, and Trump isn't far enough in yet to really measure and they don't seem to have one for any previous presidents.

I know, but the guy I was responding to said Obama did nothing but fail to deliver on his promises, which is blatantly false.

OK, good point.

I'm actually blown away that any president could keep nearly 50% of their promises and have 28% compromises, especially with an opposition-run congress for much of his administration.

It's also impossible to argue with someone who uses ad homs in place of actual arguments.

Removed. Rule 4.

He bombed 7 countries in 8 years and killed a whole fuck ton of brown people, and droned US citizens, children, just for being the children of someone else he droned that he said was a terrorist. The only reason people think he was a good president is because the media refused to report on his scandals and war mongering for 8 years.

Isn't trump doing the same? Didn't Bush do that to? Oh wait they are republicans so we can't blame them.

Well aren't you a food little left right paradigm indoctrinated citizen . They ALL do it. All of them. That's the point. I responded to a comment about Obama. Which shit politician on the right would you like a list on? I'll be happy to dig one up for you.

Obama betrayed the left. He silenced those who sought to bring peace and transparency to our government. He was a horrible President by his own standards and a nightmare by the standards of people who care about America's liberal cultural values. We are supposed to be an example to the world of good governance; instead, politicians like Obama ensure we are an example to the world of corruption, propaganda, and the elevation to high office of a psychologically damaged leadership. Presidents like Obama ensure that there is no mystery as to why the US government supports dictatorships worldwide.

Obama lowered our expectations for the office he held.

lol, you think Obama lowered our expectations after we just had 8 years of Bush?

Trump is really fucking bad, as we knew he would be when we elected him. I don't blame anyone for thinking the grass would have been greener. Most of my friends tell me they would have preferred an intelligent evil to the stupid evil we have now.

stupid evil we have now.

Did the MSM tell you this?

List the evil things he has done so far....

I would say advocating for the intentional killing of civilians is pretty evil.

Didn't you hear? Droning civies is only bad when Obama does it, according to r/conspiracy

Yeah when Obama ordered the drone murder of Anwar al-Awlaki & his US citizen child I also thought that was evil.

Believe the challenge was to list the evil he has done as president.

OMG HRC would have never done that exact same thing!

INCOMING CONVERSATION SWITCH TO OBAMA OR HILLARY

Removed. Rule 6

I think a lot of people had the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" mentality when it came to voting Trump

Here's the rub. It's possible to subscribe to conspiracy theories (that keep proving true over and over again), to be anti-establishment, to be anti-NWO, to be anti-Clinton/Obama/Bush, to be anti-deep state, to be anti-bilderberg, anti-davos, anti-Putin, anti-facist, anti-dictorial power , anti-war and be anti-Trump BUT still totally appreciate many of the things that Trump is (if even in theater or show) standing against and being attacked by.

The truth is Trump is hated by establishment GOP Conservatives (Bush, Cheney, Rhinos, McCain), hated by Democrats, hated by MSM, hated by Bilderbergers, hated by Davos, hated by NATO, hated by the EU, hated by the UN, hated by Soros, hated by the Elite rich like Bill Gates, Carlos Slim, David Tepper, Mark Cuban, Seth Klarman, Howard Marks, Bill Gross, Buffet, Jeff Bezos, Zuckerturd etc. etc. etc. They are all openly or indirectly attacking him. Maybe it's all a big show? A big plan by the real power structure to bring about civil war and/or WWIII along with a financial collapse? Maybe the whole thing is a giant conspiracy to bring about a dictatorship in the US that the entire government, GOP and Dems REALLY wanted all along? But it doesn't matter because like WWE wrestling you can't help but enjoy it even though you know it's 'fake'. Giving you those programmed feels. Maybe the Satanic power structure planned Bilderberg, the EU, NATO, the Middle Eastern wars so we would all be mad and except a dictator? In which case they win. They are more disciplined and devoted to power than any person or group in the world and so deserve it. Yes Israel seems to love Trump.. but Trump is an anti-semitic Hitler.. so.

The peons that make up the majority here on reddit, slamming Trump, crying 'Muhh Rushin' and everything else... you automatically put yourself in the camp of everything that is despised by what Trump is being attacked by. So if you care you should at least give some attention to that. If you want to really expose Trump as an evil doing conman then you need to contrast it with everything else that should be exposed that just so happens to be attacking him. Sorry this is such a difficult task.

Maybe Trump is a pedophile who drinks the blood of children? Maybe he has a dungeon full of women in the basement of Trump tower? Those would be some X's on his profile. But i would suggest that whatever the establishment has on Trump they KNOW he has on them. And if they dare go there they give him OPEN opportunity to do the same. And he is a vandal. He will tear down the entire power structure if he goes down. And so we get all this theater, where they try and block him or neuter his power with all this stupid BS. If they go after for anything really evil he does shit like bring all Bill Clinton's rape victims to a debate. That shuts that down real fast. He is a vandal. They know this.

So good luck with the Trump is a Rushin shite. The MSM and whoever it is you think you are supporting will leave you there to fight the pointless battle on your own as they move on to the next toothless attack.

But that's the thing. I don't care about Russia. The whole thing is stupid (they're all in bed with someone)

The trouble is that the lesser of the two evils is still fucking EVIL.

That he's hated by all the people I despise is no call for praise. They hate him for different reasons. And, it's the reasons that I find despicable.

Sooo keep going with it.. You hate him and you hate all the people that hate him. Welcome to r/conspiracy.

The truth is Trump is hated by establishment GOP Conservatives (Bush, Cheney, Rhinos, McCain), hated by Democrats, hated by MSM, hated by Bilderbergers, hated by Davos, hated by NATO, hated by the EU, hated by the UN, hated by Soros, hated by the Elite rich like Bill Gates, Carlos Slim, David Tepper, Mark Cuban, Seth Klarman, Howard Marks, Bill Gross, Buffet, JeFF Bezos, Zuckerturd etc. etc. etc. They are all openly or indirectly attacking him.

I have to agree, this is the only appealing thing I liked Trump for. After he filled his cabinet with the same neocon-light Beltway insiders and millionaires, I paused my perhaps naive support for him. When he continued the drone strikes without Congressional approval, and continued the policy of playing God and deciding to kill other human beings, I really began to question President Trump's real motivations.

I think this is all theater now, and Trump's job is to drop the hammer down and bring in the military police state that has been created by the last 16 years. This is what the power structure has been planning since 9/11, and they now have their catalyst in place and ready to move.

The Russian thing is what I'm still on the fence about. I find it incredibly difficult to believe that when the USSR fell, that the same bankster cartel that has been pretty much unopposed in almost every country, and who were the ones funding and trying to bring about this collapse for decades there, wouldn't just walk away, and not get their tentacles into the markets and power.

The name Putin or PUT-IN seems to confirm this. They are all on the same team I believe. I don't see the US government and their banking masters spending billions of dollars and decades trying to overthrow the government, and then stopping.

I have to agree, this is the only appealing thing I liked Trump for. After he filled his cabinet with the same neocon-light Beltway insiders and millionaires, I paused my perhaps naive support for him. When he continued the drone strikes without Congressional approval, and continued the policy of playing God and deciding to kill other human beings, I really began to question President Trump's real motivations.

Absolutely. The war bullshit and drones pretty much says it all. That doesn't mean he isn't a sociopath that is on their team.. Just the larger sociopathic evil team they are all apart of.

The name Putin or PUT-IN seems to confirm this. They are all on the same team I believe. I don't see the US government and their banking masters spending billions of dollars and decades trying to overthrow the government, and then stopping.

Yeah they never stop. It's beyond money. it's power and control. Control. As individuals these people cannot stand not being in complete control. And Trump is likely a rogue sociopath. The fact that he is being attacked by all of them speaks to that. but no human can defeat the power that is pre-existantly evil. The evil they all fall in line with. He just can't stop until he faces that evil and that evil crushes him. It's like a hitman thinking he's going to kill the Don. He works his way through the ranks. Ever emboldening himself as he goes. Both the Don and the hitman are evil. But the Don is the Don because he is more evil and more willing and more capable than the hitman. The hitman doesn't figure that out until he's gasping for air with a bullet in his heart. A bullet shot through the Don's two main men. The boss of this world will ignite world war III to stay the boss. Is Trump willing to turn the entire planet into a Nuclear wasteland? The boss of this world is. 100%.

Trump is so monumentally bad that any alternative seems a good option.

Out of the two, I hated the idea of Clinton as she is clearly a crooked criminal and I felt that (although I am leftist) Trump would be a better option than Clinton. There is no way would I consider voting for him but in November I would have preferred Trump over Clinton. I was wrong. Really wrong.

I had delusions that maybe he would support the working class, pursue Hillary charges etc. But he focussed on destroying the planet with regressive climate policy, supports Israel, banned people from certain islamic countries and tried to dismantle Obamacare.

I was very wrong. Clinton would have been a better president.

I understand what you're saying, and you should also realise Trump has been in office for just 70 days. In my opinion he has bigger fish to fry right off the bat. Like the international human trafficking problems. There have already been 3000+ human trafficking arrests in the US in the 70 days he's been in office. Staggering numbers when compared to trafficking arrests in the 8 years of Obama's presidency.

Also the climate policies he has instated were to fight against the climate taxes average citizens would be paying, that goes right back into the pockets of the people who pushed climate protection policies.

You should be ashamed at that monstrosity of a website that you're using. Check out the front page. Yikes.

It's even got it's own special page on mediabiasfactcheck.com

Staggering numbers when compared to trafficking arrests in the 8 years of Obama's presidency.

In 2014 there were less than 400 trafficking arrests. In California alone there were 450+ traffickers arrested in ONE instance this year. Puts it into perspective, doesnt it?

Actually, as this graph shows, there were about 1800 trafficking arrests according to ICE & Homeland Security.

I'm gonna need a source that isn't a fake news website on the "3000+ traffickers arrested in the last 70 days" thing. Oh, and to arrange the goalposts a bit, it's gonna have to be from a reliable source, k? No russian disinfo, thanks.

You have used a graph that is outdated. Hundreds of trafficking arrests are happening everyday in the US. If you'd like ANY other source confirming arrests in California, simply look up any of the thousands of articles in the past months. I am stating there have been over 3000 arrests this term because a verifiable NAVY seal, who just declared yesterday is fighting back against pedos. I'm on mobile right now eating dinner so I don't have time to find the link but his name is Craig Sawyer. Conduct as much research as you'd like. And I dont know what you're saying, that graph clearly shows around 400 arrests in 2014.

Outdated? It was published just 3 days after Trump took office and is the latest available statistic.

https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ice-arrests-nearly-2000-human-traffickers-2016-identifies-over-400-victims-across-us

I looked up Craig Sawyer and the most credible source I could find was INFOWARS. So yea, I'm gonna need you to post your link otherwise I'm calling bullshit. I might also call bullshit if your source turns out to be a fake news website, but that's just how these things work.

It's April now not January.

former trump supporter here, it's funny watching him crash and burn, but seriously guys we cant let him get the nuclear codes

but seriously guys we cant let him get the nuclear codes

I really don't think they give the president the nuclear codes any longer.

It makes no sense to do so.

its a pasta

Won't be so funny if the country slips into recession a year from now.

Hillary sold coal to the entire world, also supports Israel, shit on Bernie for trying to sell universal healthcare to the American people, and would just continue Obama's policies, one of which was listing all of the countries of Trump's travel ban as "countries of concern" and limiting travel from them as well. No outrage from the left over that though.

I think you have the best response to this question so far. Or at least the one I can most relate to.

I 100% understand what OP is saying. And I don't really disagree. But I also think subject is much more nuanced than the way OP presents it.

There are plenty of things like you mentioned that really disappointed me about Obama. But after being an adult for sometime, when in any part of life is it not like that?

In my eyes, Obama was king of understanding that in order to get some good things done, you had to lose some of the other battles as well. I don't think we'll ever have a president that doesn't do things that are questionable or disappointing.

Ultimately we have to look at what is a president doing to help the people who need it most. And I believe overall, Obama generally enacted policies that helped those people. So because of that I give him a thumbs up.

Trump on the other hand. His campaign is full of empty promises of making America great again. Bringing back manufacturing. Equalizing trade deals. Better healthcare, etc. which if the healthcare debacle is any indication then I feel confident stating that none his promises will come true. And will most likely not be helping the people who generally need it the most.

So Trump gets a thumbs down in my mind.

Trump is certainly not perfect but is probably our best chance at reforming parts of the government for the better, even if that's by ruining them. The fact that the establishment hates him is very telling.

I think people are curious to see how their government works in the same way that dogs are curious as to what lies in the centre of a cushion or shoe. They'll rip it apart and forget about it once it's no longer the focus of their attention.

Love this.

Trump is a Cthulhu candidate. Our nation's government has become so hostile to our nation's interests that the most patriotic thing to do is vote for the greater evil. The least qualified candidates, the most odious policies, these are things that have the potential to make America great again, for these are things that will undermine a government that has forgotten what it means to protect America.

In your opinion, what would a "good" president do?

Disband the NSA and ban blanket domestic spying. Probably audit the Federal Reserve too and deal with the fact that we owe trillions in debt to our own central bank-and other countries, yes, but why our central bank? A good president would ask that question and demand an audit.

Soooooooo anything in Russia's and our adversaries interests. Got it.

Weird, I didn't know it was in our personal interest to have the federal government spy on us without probable cause. Or to have us print our own money and loan it to us through debt-backed Treasury bonds.

Russia doesn't benefit from how we print our money or who controls how money is created. No foreign country benefits from us being debt-free to our central bank.

No idea how Russia even remotely factors into how we produce our own domestic currency, so it's blatantly obvious you're injecting the "new Cold War" rhetoric into this for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

No, the anti American rhetoric that is being spread. I don't disagree there are some concerns with the fed and domestic spying. But when every domestic issue is turned into a drum to beat to overthrow institutions in this country, I become very concerned.

I don't think we were prepared for the dissent that can be spread through social media. And I think it's obvious foreign governments are weaponing that.

The Cold War never ended for Putin. When communist Russia fell, it was humiliating to Russia in Putin's view. He's publicly stated he'll bring Russia back to its dominance. There's just one problem, the country that defeated Russia in the Cold War is even more powerful than it was then.

1. End NSA surveillance
2. We are no longer illegally surveilled by our own gov't, however the CIA can still spy on Russia if needed
3. ???
4. Russia benefits

Yep it all adds up.

Well there aren't just calls for ending the NSA, there's calls for ending the CIA, the courts, etc. That's a common viewpoint on this sub. Yes, domestic spying is an issue. A serious one. Dismantling our intelligence community benefits one country more than al any other... And that's Russia.

and deal with the fact that we owe trillions in debt

The only responsible way to deal with the debt is to cut spending and pay it off.

Which means cutting spending on social programs, because that's the largest portion of the budget.

Guillotining Hillary should earn a modification to Mt Rushmore

Immediately close all forgien military bases and end the illegal wars ( including the war on drugs)

our government is so corrupt that it DOESN'T MATTER who the president, senator, congressman is

If you honestly think that then you have no idea how politics works. Do you think if we had had a Republican president the last 8 years that the ACA would've passed? I only have healthcare because of that program.

And that's not to say that arguments against the ACA aren't valid, but simply to say that there is a monumental difference between the legislation passed by Republican government and Democratic ones. To say otherwise is to intentionally ignore all evidence to the contrary.

Regarding differences, you're not wrong Groomper however OP's contention they are both puppets and do shit they shouldn't do for the wrong reasons is spot on.

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to stricly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." Noam Chomsky.

The left and right paradigm is a bullshit one and there are many better options out there.

It dont not matter if little bits of policy are different, they support the same failing power structures, failing CEOs and terrorists, and they indulge in illegeal acrovoty because they are above the law.

Left and Right?

Fuck it, I'm goin Up.

there is a monumental difference between the legislation passed by Republican government and Democratic ones

Neither side will end prohibition

Neither side will audit the Federal Reserve

Neither side will disband the NSA for illegal wiretapping

Neither side will allow banks to fail in another crisis, or even blame the banks

Neither side will speak against 3-letter agencies

Neither side will give up federal powers or give more power to the states

Neither side will stop murdering brown people in the middle east

"monumental" differences.

You forgot the most important one - neither one will stop the endless, failed foreign wars that the US does over and over at huge expense, failing every time to achieve either strategic or humanitarian objectives.

Neither side will stop murdering brown people in the middle east

Pretty sure that's what he meant with this part at the end

Permanent war is the goal. They are achieving that.

You're right. In the end we're arguing over crumbs while the real problems remain unchallenged.

So the fact that some things are the same means there can't possibly be other differences? You're quite astute.

I agree with your points. But you realize that just because you found some similarities, doesn't mean there are no differences.

• Both Cats and Dogs have eyes

• Both Cats and Dogs have a nose

• Both Cats and Dogs are furry

Can you claim that cats are the same as dogs? Of course not. Pointing similarities doesn't nothing be demoralized people.

There are good politicians. * Bernie Sanders wants to end prohibition * Bernie Sanders wants audit the Federal Reserve * Bernie Sanders wants to end illegal wiretapping * Bernie Sanders blames the banks

See how that works. I'm not saying Bernie is perfect. But throwing your hand up with the the false equivalency argument does no one any good.

Instead we need to find the Good candidates from the left and the Right. If all Republicans were fiscally conservative, socially liberal like Bill Well, I'd vote (R) down ballot. But their not. So we need to stay active and encourage others to hep fix the broken system.

Bernie Sanders is a turdcoat sellout who should be smashed into a thousand bits and set on fire just to be safe

If you thin that Trump is more idealogically aligned with Bernie then you are blatantly fucking clueless

I don't think that's a fair assessment. Naturally creatures will share general similarities, as will political parties.

u/youtoobinallday's point is there are no monumental differences which he lists out.

You're right. You'll have to depend on Trump to do maybe 1 or 2 of those things as our first cryptolibertarian president (psst: he's not a republican)

They threw some crumbs to the peasants.. wow.

Democrats didn't get the bill they wanted for a lack of trying. They were shot down be members of their own party for a public option. It was the only way forward with the current political landscape and many believed that with continued Democrat support the bill could be improved over time. Congress moved more conservative because of the bill and the opportunity now is lost. So, here we are with an originally Republican plan and no Republicans willing to improve upon it, but rather revert because of "socialism." This while they had years to create a better way forward rather than burn things down.

If one sides says "single payer or nothing" and the other side wants nothing, guess which side wins?

You're only telling part of the story.

What part am I missing?

It may only cost you 56 + 130 but someone else is paying the shortfall.

No they aren't. Everyone who works pays national insurance, the 130 part, it varies country to country. I choose to pay the 56, that's a private company, that's the monthly payment. Private companies don't lose out, it's a for profit organisation. You guys just get shafted and have been conditioned it's normal to pay 800 a month for healthcare. It's not.

Paying a percentage of income means people pay different amounts. This is the nature of progressive tax systems.

It's called providing healthcare to all, rich and poor. It's not a bad thing. 'FUCK you I've got mine' isn't a European attitude. We also all have healthcare and pay less than the US for it. Win win.

Yeah it's a great thing. All I was pointing out is that healthcare doesn't cost 130 euro per person. That part isn't entirely accurate.

You're sort of right. It's a push/pull situations between the two parties. The general powers that be decide how much freedom/distractions we get, the political parties are there to make some of us feel like we are winning once in awhile. Those of us outside the two mindsets are eternally screaming in our heads about how fucking gullible and naive everyone is.

Both parties are one in the same. It is a distraction to keep us divided.

Right, because the Republicans clearly love Obamacare!

It originally should have been called Romney care. This is what I love about being able to comment and communicate with people. We all get to learn so much.

http://www.npr.org/sections/itsallpolitics/2015/10/23/451200436/mitt-romney-finally-takes-credit-for-obamacare

I'm well aware of the ACA's history. I was clearly talking about today's GOP.

Fair enough. They are both trying to cast it as their own brainchild. Politicians are like petty children.

The ACA is a joke. I have a pre existing condition and "the only reason I have healthcare" is because of it. I supported it at first for that reason. The reality was pathetic.

What they don't tell you is that the "pre existing condition" plans are more expensive than regular plans and cover less. Mine literally covers nothing for my pre existing condition. Absolutely nothing. So I'm forced to pay a corporation for nothing, or I'm forced to pay a tax for it.

Its an absolute joke.

I only have healthcare because of that program.

Funny. I don't have health care because of it.

Like I said, there's plenty of reasons why someone might not like the ACA. My point was just that there are in fact major differences between the parties.

How is this in anyway a conspiracy?

It's almost like a foreign state is using it's

special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics."[1]

How is the topic of divide and conquer not a conspiracy? Thats a well known tactic of conspirators.

The ds and rs conspire to look like they are different. In reality they are two sides of the same fascist coin. The illusion of choice. You have no choice. You have owners.

The real conspiracy is something that is extremely implicit.

You see, the only true invasion of shills is those of Trump shills. And the accusations of democrat shills is part of a gaslight effort. No, I'm not suggesting democrats are better than republicans. But the suggestion that if you're not pro-Trump, you're a democrat or you're a sharia blue or CTR is the conspiracy.

The gaslighting is so effective at this point that many original people in this sub don't speak out about it, or aren't even aware that the true shills are T_D shills and this has been proven by the numbers. If you go to other subreddits on the outside looking in, they all know that r/conspiracy has fallen to an invasion force; but it's not an invasion of ctr or shariablue.

[removed]

alternative

You mean Bull Shit. Since when does r/conspiracy cover 'alternative news' anyway?

Dude, no one can grasp this sickening concept. You need to repost this all across Reddit and let all the corrupt ass bitches know! They don't even know that they're being divided AND conquered! Like both!

We need to flood the airwaves with this truth bomb, bros!

The democrats didn't vote in lock-step to take away our internet privacy.

In fact, they did the opposite when the law was first passed.

If the democrats did better in the last election, we would still have that protection.

Not quite sure why any of this is being analyzed so deeply in here. Should be an understood baseline concept, modus operandi.

This sub has been hijacked by fucking idiots the last few months. I can't stand the concept of people thinking they're posting meaningful articles on this sub anymore and are part of a resistance. It's just /news

Those in opposition to the above can quell that, you know. ^

I do my part. Can't say the same for the majority, though, or this very conversation wouldn't even have materialized.

Hm. Well, I don't think I'm blind, and I think you're wrong, but I'm open to further explanation if you disagree.

The democrats didn't vote in lock-step to take away our internet privacy.

The democrats were responsible for that protection, and the republicans voted unanimously to remove that protection.

Some of the things Hillary has done have been that bad. Everything the republicans do is that bad. That is why people still think Hillary would have been better than Trump.

If you can provide evidence that explains why they didn't do the same thing before, and why that would have changed, I'll reconsider my point of view.

Downvoted because everything Trump does is corrupt

Surely, with that attitude, no further reading required.

Regards, GnR

Well, yeah. That's why I segmented it off with one of those line-breaks.

The discussion starts at Trump's opposition to internet privacy, when Hillary supported it.

Here, have an up-trump for your effort.

I'm not an expert, however I think the hysteria has gotten to you a bit on the privacy bill.

It was less than 30 words in length, and merely undid an EO Obama signed in the final month of his term.

So it set things back to the way they always were. I guess if democrats/Obama cared so much about privacy for consumers, they would have did this years ago.

Instead it's almost like Obama did this as he was leaving just to setup Trump and the Republicans so they could paint them like this when they repealed it.

What we are seeing now seems to be a lot of crocodile tears, politics, and grand standing to try to wedge their way back in with the middle class who left them.

If Congress did their jobs and served the American people's interests like OP demands, there'd be bills to allow us to opt out of such privacy violations, including the CIAs backdoor into all of our tech.

That's a good point, but it only highlights the question: why did the republicans and Trump so uniformly support reversing it?

That's certainly a fair criticism, but it doesn't at all justify the political divide on the subject.

I'm saying the situation is far more complicated than "money good, privacy bad" - Republicans.

They both don't care about your privacy, and Democrats are just playing politics to smear the Republicans for it. That's their right and all, and the Republicans are pretty dumb for falling into the trap to give people a reason to turnout in 2 years.

They fuck too much shit up in these two years they will never get the supermajority they need to pass everything they want.

Neither one cares about privacy, but they both went out and they voted in opposite directions.

So what I have on the one side is the allegation that they didn't vote for what they meant, and that they don't care about privacy.

On the other I have proof that the Republicans don't care, and the WH official statement on the matter.

Yes, the hysteria I mentioned? The crocodile tears? I don't remember any Democrat in Obamas 8 years crying about ISPs being able to sell your privacy data before Obamas EO. Now they are. Because they aren't in power. And because it makes the Republicans look bad. Does it make sense now?

Sure. It's symbolic.

But have these tables ever been reversed? Have the republicans ever managed to make the democrats look bad in the same way?

Well, they did nominate a populist to run against an entitled cunt. Up until this election, Republicans were known as the corporatists and the Democrats were the party of the middle class. That's all changed now.

Hmmm. I have three issues with that.

First, between the person who accepted the result of the election and the one who adamantly said he would refuse to accept anything but a win (and then refused to accept the results anyway claiming he has also won the popular vote), I don't feel as though Clinton's entitlement compares negatively to the populist. Nor do I think she's any less of a cunt than him, though that's more personal opinion.

Second, President Billionaire and the Goldman Sachs cabinet (with guest star Rexxon Mobile Tillerson) are arguably the most "corporatist" administration we've ever had.

Third, that's a decision made by the voters, not Trump, Hillary, or Congress. (mind, the allegations of elections fraud in the primary certainly seem plausible). I also don't think it's fair to include actions unrelated to legislation, because the contrast isn't clear enough (too murky)

That third one's important, because I still don't have the critical piece of evidence I need to reconsider my opinion.

What has Hillary done that puts her beneath the Republicans?

Has there been a time when Clinton was the worst? Has she ever been willing to sign anything worse than what the republicans were signing?

I don't respect your question enough to answer it.

The point he's making without outright saying it is that this was widely considered a political move to make trump look bad. Obama and the government knew this shit would get repealed, that's why they did it. It's not that they actually wanted it and the republicans didn't. None of them wanted it.

This is how they trick you into picking sides. You have the republican side that they often make to look like the stubborn, ignorant, corrupt old dudes that have too much power. Then you have the democrat side who is made to look like the good guys always voting for nice things but they just somehow never have the power to accomplish it (except when they have the power they still never accomplish anything and when it's required they still pass the evil shit).

It's an illusion. They're all on the same side; even the ones that don't realize it. Both sides are shit. The few genuine good people on both sides are just used for face and to waste the energy of people willing to work to change things while the rest of us just sit around and whine how bad the dems or reps are.

This is why democrats barely put any work or funding into down ballot. They just want the face of the country to appear like a good person so we all feel comfortable. They don't care to fight for majority control so that their votes actually matter because they don't WANT their votes to actually matter. They want the same things as the republicans while appearing to vote against those interests because their votes don't actually matter.

Sure. They only passed it because the republicans would repeal it.

Why did the republicans repeal it? Would the democrats have done that?

If both sides are working towards some nebulous purpose, then the nebulous purpose is happening either way and I'll be safer with the one that gives me the better set of rights and privileges underneath that purpose.

It's a little more complex to say whether the democrats would have repealed it or not. They have to balance risk vs reward of keeping up appearance while still fighting for the interests they secretly want. Most likely they would just do what they always do--coordinate with the republicans to vote just as much as needed and have the republicans do most of the heavy lifting.

You are missing the point if you think you can vote for one side that gives you a better set of rights and privileges. The whole point is that it is meaningless who you vote for, the outcome is the same. It just appears that one side is better but in reality this is not the case.

I gave you an example of one side being better.

If it's an illusion, there should be a counter-example.

Otherwise, there's value in supporting the "nominally" better group, because even if the Rothschilds get every dollar I own, I'm still getting the better package on things the PTB's don't care about.

Giving an example that is explained within my own point isn't an example...

Like I said, nothing has been different with sides reversed. Obama was owned by citibank and had everything he needed to make change and they did nothing until they lost that power. Bill Clinton repealed glass steagall and fucked up the economy. Biden effectively wrote the patriot act. The war on drugs under obama, libya, syria, etc and so on. There are too many examples.

To illustrate this it would actually be better to point out what the democrats have actually accomplished for the big things that matter. In that regard it is very difficult to come up with anything to point to and show that they aren't the same as republicans. I honestly can't think of anything that fits a true, big, thing they did against corporate interests...the same as republicans.

The democrats only really succeed in changing things that don't matter to them. For example some civil issues like gay marriage etc, those are arguably better under democrats. If that's enough for you then I don't blame you for voting since it doesn't matter otherwise. But keep in mind they only use these things politically and don't actually care. They care about money and power, not about gay people. The same is true with republicans, they just take the other side but don't usually truly care.

You explained the example, but that's not enough.

The example is evidence of one side being worse than the other.

If it's an illusion, then either there's a counter-example, or the liberals are being painted as the "good guys" on every point of contention.

As I said, the nominal good guys are still better than the nominal bad guys.

The example is evidence of one side being worse than the other

...Within a system that does not allow an outcome to differ depending on this action that was evidenced. If I am pointing out that the idea of voting records is being used to make one side appear better when in reality it isn't allowed to make any difference and due to this both sides are the same, it can not be used as evidence to show that one side is better.

You didn't address what I said. Provide an example where the democrats had the power to make big change that wasn't a social issue that is against the interests of the elites that the republicans opposed and they succeeded.

You're begging the question that the outcome is guaranteed. Do you think the republicans would have repealed don't ask don't tell?

I already addressed that. I fully accept the notion that both sides are fundamentally supportive of elite interests. The little differences are sufficient for me to support one side over the other.

Well that is the context of what is being discussed. You're arguing that they aren't the same and are better. In terms of community interest, the argument is that they serve the same interests and therefore are not better which is what you are disagreeing with.

That's a false equivalence. Arguing that they serve the same end-goal is not the same as arguing that they are the same.

You're doing one and you're saying it means the other.

but it doesn't at all justify the political divide on the subject.

It explains entirely the political divide on the subject.

Obama did this as he was leaving just to setup Trump and the Republicans so they could paint them like this

and merely undid an EO Obama signed in the final month

This is the exact same talking point a Comcast lobbyist used on the news. While technically correct, it's deception in that fact that because of other changes, the end effect on consumers is a loss of privacy.

Your talking point is the exact same a Shareblue propaganda http://shareblue.com/congress-just-shredded-americans-online-privacy-rights-and-a-vulnerable-gop-senator-is-to-blame/

If you would take the time to read the reasons why they were ending Obama's last minute change you would see your privacy was already protected by the FTC and FCC and these rules were just a power expansion of the FCC in lock step with the net neutrality rules to create the ministry of truth out of the FCC.

DISSENTING STATEMENT OF (FCC) COMMISSIONER AJIT PAI...PDF https://apps.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-341937A5.pdf

Rep. Marsha Blackburn's explanation of why. http://www.breitbart.com/radio/2017/03/28/rep-marsha-blackburn-fcc-rule-change-vote-eliminates-obama-admin-internet-tax-regulatory-power-grab/

Just because Shareblue repeats my point that this bill weakens your privacy doesn't make it wrong. Nothing refuses my point. Yes, you're right they ending Obama's last minute change. However you are again dodging the key point that privacy rights are eroded by this bill. Before the bill, you had privacy rights by default. After the bill, your rights are taken away. Yes, you can OP-IN to restore them, but the overall effect is a loss of privacy protections.

I didn't mean my comment to be solely directed at you. I've been frustrated that everyone seemed to jump on the same bandwagon without even reading the opposing reasons.... This bill didn't even go into effect until January, I think and parts of it have yet to even go into effect. Rolling back this bureaucratic expansion will not take away your privacy protection as all these concerns were already covered by existing FCC FTC rules. This was just a restructuring of power and bureaucratic expansion. If anything it took regulation of your privacy protection away from one regulator and gave it to another.

will not take away your privacy protection

This is a patently false. This is what the lying corporate lobbyists are saying on TV. Even the Breitbart does not go that far to make that claim. The reality is with this bill, our privacy protections go from OP-IN, or privacy by default to OP-OUT, or privacy only if you request it.

You are being deceived by shareblue. They do not sell your sensitive info. The opt in/opt out part is true, but it ONLY applies to targeted ads, not selling your sensitive info. If you are concerned about targetted advertising then you would have to stop using the internet all together because just about every web site does it also.

You are being deceived by shareblue.

LOL. Nice try. I had never even visited shareblue before you linked to it. I don't get my information from left wing propoganda or from your right wing propaganda. I go to original surces like the bill itself I review it and listen to both sides with an open mind.

In this case, one side is clearly using word games, fallacious arguments, and downright lies to promise that cause. I'm sorry, but you've been tricked by ISP corporate lobbyists. You've done nothing be regurgitate their talking points.

At least you admit:

The opt in/opt out part is true

Which if you understand what it mean, is the basis of my argument, that this bill erodes our privacy rights.

Please explain to me how our privacy rights going from OP-IN to OP-OUT is NOT a loss of privacy for Americans? I'm glad you at least understand the effect of the law change. I just don't see how you can come to such a different conclusion.

There is always a bigger picture.

So you are willing to trade some liberty, by expanding a bureaucracy for the future regulating/censoring of the internet, in exchange for an initial false sense of security?

I say false sense of security because this bill continues to allow the same thing "targetted advertising" to be done by every website including google and social media.

This rule along with net neutrality will set up the initial frame work needed for the FCC to be the thought police of the internet, in the future, gradually, one increment at a time. Every pyramid needs a sturdy foundation.

by expanding a bureaucracy

Regulations = Loss of Liberty? I just threw up in my mouth. FUCK CORPORATIONS! The only liberty lost here are the privacy of American citizens. All you care about are making corporations richer at the expense of our privacy. Pathetic.

Corporations not citizens. I could give a fly fuck about their freedoms. Fuck them. They are stealing our democracy. They are feeding our population lies to manipulate them into voting against their self interests.

Maybe you would like a huge bureaucratic monster to keep you nice and safe in a cage. Would that be liberty to you?

Oh the bureaucratic boogie man. I'm so scared. /s They use that fear to manipulate you into giving up your freedoms. Just like they used the muslim boogeyman to steal from us with the Patriot Act. Fear is such a powerful tool to manipulate the feeble minded.

I think running a large company that has done very well gives him great leadership skills but this is just my opinion. You also said trump intends to sign a policy and unfortunately until he does it's just words and opinions. If your speaking about healthcare when you stated he can't pass a bill his campaign ran on I would ask you who who put this policy in place to bitch about? I don't expect him to know all the ins and outs of healthcare and that's why he asked everyone to try to come together and figure it out but how is that possible with a huge divide over Russia when the American people are the ones suffering. Our congress and senate don't live under Obamacare so they don't give 2 shits about the people. He has started to bring back jobs. He's trying to put in place extreme vetting to protect our country but he's blocked by divide every chance he gets. The 3 letter agency's you speak of are already crooked as hell and the left blocks to the point he can't fill his cabinet which is unheard of. So much for a smooth transition. Hillary had way more problems than her legal policies. Oil, drugs, human trafficking, pay to play and toppling other countries governments while laughing about it was pretty sick and saying well she didn't win is not an excuse for her to not be prosecuted. So because you don't win, blame FBI, blame fake news, blame Russia and act like children its ok? That's BS! He did state he would put his tax returns out once he's done being audited so thank the IRS and I do agree he should. His company he gave to his kids and he's taking no government pay except $1 because he had to. He owns the place he supposedly vacations at so if he wasn't required to take air force one and his life wasn't threatened by people and him needing more security there isn't much to bitch about when we paid for every aspect of obamas vacations. I can't speak to the fees being upped as I'm not a member are you? I could see it's easier to protect him if they deter more people if that's the case but again I'm not a member so I don't know if this is true. If people would stop threatening him and his family we would have a lot less to bitch about. When I see people bitch about how much his security is it's comical because it's their own fault for threatening his life to be honest. Also the SS renting his golf carts. That just sounds so stupid. Do we have proof of this?

I'm only giving an opposite opinion of your view. The guy is trying to be taken down from every angle at this point so he must be doing something. Sorry it's so long but Russia made me write this ; )

Leadership skills:

I think you're confusing a "strict boss" with a "strong leader".

There are a lot of little examples I can press on, but healthcare reform is the issue that demonstrates what I consider to be complete lack of leadership skills on the part of Donald Trump.

The Republicans have a super-majority right now. They can pass any law they want, and they don't need an executive to "lead" the democrats (which, let me remind you represent half the country) at all.

Just about every republican in congress campaigned on getting rid of Obamacare. "Repeal and Replace" was the party platform. Everybody was pushing it.

Now Republicans couldn't pass the healthcare bill, and Trump gave up. He couldn't organize his own political party to pass a law that every single one of them had campaigned on for the better part of a decade. Not only that, he couldn't pull a single vote from the democrats.

That doesn't strike me as leadership.

Well there are dirty democrats and republicans that's why it's better to be more in the middle. Your upset at Trump over Obamacare when Hillary and Obama put it in place and again congress and senate don't have Obamacare so they don't give 2 shits unfortunately. Obama even waited till right after his second election to put it into place. Wasn't that so sweet. What can Trump do about it exactly is my question to you I guess? It has to be written up and voted on and truthfully he's attacked by all sides over stupid stuff instead of everyone saying let's help him fix this for the people. Instead we are fighting over Russia. He has tried executive order on the extreme vetting and he was fraught at every angle. Congress is responsible for Obamacare we elect them to represent the people and they couldn't get it done. Go figure. I don't think Trump is done with Obamacare but we have to hold congress responsible and that means both sides.

I'm sure if Trump was a truly horrible boss he would've had millions of disgruntled employees way before the election and I've never worked for him or met him so I can knock him as this Strict Boss however I'm sure no boss that just let their employees do nothing didn't make millions and became president of the US. You have to give that to him.

I do thank you for having a decent conversation. I think we should all take like this. Like we used to with supposing views.

I'm not upset at him. I want single payer, nobody's giving me that.

What I'm saying is that he doesn't have any leadership skills. People say the deep state, the democrats, and the freedom caucus are all conspiring against Trump. Why can't he lead them?

I'm no Trump fan, but to be fair the guy is like 2 months into his presidency. I find it amusing people expect him to get everything done in 2 months. I doubt he just "gave up."

401 golf vacations remaining until the next president.

I used to buy into the "Both sides are the same bit". It started in the late 90's, when I read that Michael Moore book "Downsize this". The term he used was "republicrats".

But there are legislative differences between the two. Sure, they both support the same organizations, but they don't support the same human rights. They're not catering to the same voters.

As far as I can see, Republicans are holding the religious right hostage with their opposition to abortion, and using their political weight to prevent a third party from appealing to conservative principles that don't relate to religion. They have absolutely no necessity to act on policy.

On the left, the democrats are still nominally adherent to policy choices, taxes, human rights, climate change, and so on. The bill in question is an example where all the republicans pointed the most evil direction, and none of the democrats did.

If both sides are the same, there should be an example of a flip-flop on that.

If we discuss destabilizing regions and conducting wars under false pretenses, then I would say that they are the same.

Democrats and Republicans have both used the middle East, hell they are still using it as a propaganda tool.

Yep. Both sides cater to whatever nebulous forces influence politics with money.

But that doesn't change the leeway they do get.

Even if we were going to iraq either way, Gore would have saved us from the baby/abortion boom caused by "abstinence only" education.

Maybe you should consider not talking so much.

he charges the secret service to rent his golf carts.

Have you taken a rational look at the information you're parroting? How concerned would you expect Donald Trump to be about a few (very few) golf cart rentals? Open your mind.

The democrats were responsible for that protection, and the republicans voted unanimously to remove that protection.

There never was any protection. The rule never actually took effect.

And they brilliantly picked "muh privacy" as the issue to BTFO you with, keeping you distracted from a more pernicious danger; rule by bureaucratic fiat.

I don't hold the position OP seems to that it doesn't matter at all who's elected, but I do think both sides are ultimately being used to the same ends, even if they get there differently.

Whichever side is elected, there are winners and losers. Dems are generally better for the poor and lower-middle class, Republicans for the upper-middle and upper-class. On the whole, I prefer the Democratic stance on social issues.

Yet I think the best way to explain my belief that both sides contribute to the same negative outcomes is what Democratic presidents have done against their base's interests in the last 20 years, and why I think they've done it.

One case of note is Obama's handling of national security and surveillance. The public, particularly the left, was weary of war and angry about PATRIOT and other measures by 2008. Obama was elected in part as a response to this. But once in office, he continued and presided over the expansion of many of these surveillance and national security measures, including the NDAA (forget the year) which allowed US citizens to be indefinitely detained without due process, and the codification of the NSA domestic spying practices revealed by Snowden, which had previously been occurring but not acknowledged by the government.

Sure, McCain or Romney would have done these same things, but they would have received much greater pushback from the left, who were largely silent or became so quickly after these things came out.

It's not that Democrats are inherently as bad on national security or surveillance, but they play a role in normalizing these things, and acting as the pressure release valve for discontent of the policies. Surveillance became worse under Obama than it was under Bush, yet the public outcry is lesser.

When you live in the world today, and I'm speaking from the perspective of living in the west, it's easy to fall victim to lies. Naturally, our lives have been made to be stressful, as all of life is a learning lesson. Yet, they've been made outrageously stressful. I read yesterday that 70% of millionaires admit that they do not feel wealthy. Now, imagine a family of 5, middle-class income. Imagine the stress almost everyone feels.

And when your life is so overwhelmed with stress, with what to do next, with a structured day, with endless responsibilities, with incessant thinking, with never knowing who or what you really are...you tend to never have the time to contemplate what the hell is actually going on in reality. You never really ask what ALL of this living thing is really about.

Thus, because we never take the time to question what's true and real, we fall victim to listening to others. Beyond that, we're born into lives of structure where we're spoon fed from the 'system' and become reliant upon finding out information from people who come before us. I attended an elite college in the US and, even there, rarely were we trained in critical thought. More so, we focused on being better than our peers at whatever it was we were doing because it meant getting a better job.

A year out of college, I crashed mentally when I took a second to contemplate reality and what I was. That lead to realizing that, for 25 years I'd lived a life of closed-mindedness. I realized that everything I thought I knew was, in fact, not true because thoughts hold no basis in reality.

Anyway, just saying it's easy to see how people can believe that Hillary or Obama are just a couple of bros who had good intentions. People are so lost in their own individual 'games of life' that they can't exist with an open-mind. Their lives are fundamentally chaotic, thus their mental clarity isn't able to find a state in which truth becomes blatantly apparent. I mean, look around and witness the state of the world and how horrid it is. The fact that people are unwilling to acknowledge the truth is insane, literally. And because people exist within an insane state of consciousness -- in that they are so egoic, so about the self, so lost in the game -- we are having trouble coming together as One.

Of course. I am happy too.

Very well said.

And something that is apparent in the anti Homeschool thread on r/all today. We are indoctrinated by the system. Not just public school but all school and life too. We are taught anyone doing something without a government approved certification or rubber stamp is a fraud and a lair and dangerous. We are taught to never question authority. To conform and bully each other foe being different. We are taught any ideas outside the approved narrative, and especially by unstamped unofficial authorities is automatically wrong and inherently dangerous.

We are cut off by design from independence and self reliance. Food must be purchased through government approved stores, made in government approved kitchens or factories and labeled per government approved regulations. We must onky seek health assistance from AMA certified and government approved doctors and the nurses and PAs can only be trusted when supervised.

All "medicine" must be big pharma produced and government approved. Taking herbs is frowned upon and smear campaigns and disinformation on that and homeopathy and chiropractic treatment is all frauds and just out to steal from you. Yet some 450,000 people a year are hospitalized by correctly prescribed and government approved pharmaceuticals. Homeopathy hasn't killed anyone but there is a new push on UK to ban it.

Today i watched a bunch if ignorant jerks talk shit about homeschooling and the parents that choose to do it and the organizations set up to help and protect them.

A few actually knew or had been homeschooled and corrected some of the worst comments. But the jerk who turned a "how to protect yourself from over zealous CPS harassing you for homeschooling" into a "how to abuse your kids and get away with it" describing the link.

My post on that huff post article about 80% + kids saved by the FBI were foster kids was not well received last I checked. And honestly the number of homeschool kids abused by parents can't even remotely compare. That and the kids aren't kept in bunkers or cult compounds. We still participate in sports and scouts and clubs. In fact the homeschool weekly meet up groups are more likely to spot a child being abused than public school teachers with 30+ kids to corral.

But oh yeah all homeschools keep their kids locked in the basement.

I completely agree with your comment on this subject. I attended public school, but my parents made sure that I was also educated outside of that as well, and I made sure my sibs were too. Our close cousin is homeschooled. If my parents had the resources we would have been as well.

I think the indoctrination of our school-age children is absolutely abhorrent, and actual education takes a back-seat to this "government training," and manipulating kids to participate in sports-related activities so that they are too tired and distracted to want to learn.

It's sad because as humans, studies show that in our formative years we learn the most and are capable of absorbing so much knowledge in a very short amount of time. There is some truth to the saying that "you can't teach old dogs new tricks." Education is the key to life and we rob our kids of that every day.

What's wrong with sports-related activities? Wouldn't that help kids stay physically healthy?

Generally they're fine as long as they are not converted into a distraction from other things.

I would love to homeschool my kids once I have some but the problem is if I don't know anyone else that home schools than they won't really have social skills.

we fall victim to listening to others. Beyond that, we're born into lives of structure where we're spoon fed from the 'system' and become reliant upon finding out information from people who come before us

The muslim world is experiencing a similar thing. Arab elitists are preying on their stressed population, influencing them to cause violence and be hateful. The young jihadist blowing himself up in Iraq is mentally and psychologically no different than the muslim-hating youtube commentor in the west. They both want to eradicate their enemies, and they are both pawns in the game- being moved around the chess board by their masters.

Im going to get a ton of downvotes for saying this but whatever. Islam is a small, small factor in whats going on in the middle east compared to the decades of war with Israel and the west. They have been at war their entire lives, their father's entire life, and their grandfather's life. Look at that quote again, "we're born into lives of structure where we're spoon fed from the 'system' and become reliant upon finding out information from people who come before us." The religion (and sense of religious nationalism) just provides a convenient vessel for the elites to channel that hatred.

Heres the kicker, we are seeing the same thing going on online in discussions about islamic terrorism. European nationalists who want to use violence in the name of god and country. The "violence" is obviously degrees smaller than their muslim counterparts, but if this war continues for a few more generations and becomes entrenched in western culture the say way it has in the muslim world, then those twitter fingers will turn into trigger fingers.

This is some serious world war 3, apocalypse stuff if we dont find a solution.

I agree completely. And don't ever let a concern for receiving downvotes hold you back from speaking from the heart, although I'm sure you are already aware.

What frightens me is that it's becoming intensely clear that the majority will not awaken until significant stress/confusion/sadness takes over their lives. Often times, it takes deep darkness entering one's mind in order for one to remember the light.

My intention lies in an apocalypse not happening. But my intuition suggests that massive suffering will ensue because that's what the collective has decided it will need in order to see what's true again. I only feel this way because I woke up after severe depression, which came as a result of huge internal conflicts stemming from the ego I'd developed and an inability to really understand this foreign-feeling world. I hope I'm wrong.

And i feel like mental illness is becoming way more common, especially among younger generations. I also have depression and a lot of my friends have some shit wrong with their head. Its almost as if our collective ego is having some sort of internal conflict, as if this fake world we have created is blocking us from what it truly feels like to be human... I mean shit, how many 40 year olds have to take xanax or drink themselves to sleep because they are stuck in some lifeless, corporate job just to feed their kids? This really is a foreign-feeling world.

Yeah, man. I think about how prevalent mental illness seems, all the time.

My theory is that our thinking has increased in its rate -- a consequence of introducing tech to the masses, like cell phones and texting, which we've become heavily attached to -- and we worry more than ever -- the increased threat of 'wars on terror' that our young generations deal with more and more and the general induction of perpetual anxiety via believing we exist in a threatened environment -- and with capitalism working in a sort of see-saw fashion, all the money has ended up in the pockets of some while not others, leaving the world a harder place to find work opportunities for younger job-seeking peoples. All these things -- oh and including the fact that, over time, we learn more and thus have to be taught more than generations prior in order to 'advance' -- are parts of a daily thought-cycle for the standard person. To be fair, I am only 26, not married, and have no children.

Beyond all of that, the craziest aspect of humanity is that the majority believes its own being is its own thoughts. People are unable to separate what they really are (consciousness) from their thoughts (which blatantly appear within consciousness, not as consciousness). So, over time, a society that teaches the wrong way of thinking (memory, analytics) and creates too much noise in its collective head, and a society in which all its people believe they are their own, individual thoughts, it then makes sense to me to look around and see an anxiety-ridden, atheistic, poor, confused world dominated by its military but even more sadly dominated by its own thought structure.

Also, I'm high.

Have you seen Hypernormalization yet?

Nah. Haven't heard about it.

https://youtu.be/tVy-ow57D8E i think you would like it.

Good looks. I really appreciate that. I'll check it out, for sure.

Also check out his other documentary, Century of Self. Its about American individualism and how capitalism created an atmosphere to allow self expression, and how this atmosphere was then exploited.

Beautifully said and well thought out.

We work for an object outside of ourselves (money)

I stopped reading your post there.

Currency is merely a medium more convenient than the alternative (bartering).

Go deeper, man. You're thinking on the surface level.

One of the best posts I have read.

R/conspiracy is just a bunch of right wing losers

The irony of this being the first comment i see on this post.

A mans gotta eat

Almost.

They invaded after the orangutan took office.

is everyone blind?

Yes, even us "free" thinkers here in this sub can have temporal blind-spots.

The problem is that too many people think being critical of Trump means you think Hillary was a good option.

Believe it or not, it's possible to think they both suck.

They both suck.

There's no such thing as a tie... one has to be superior

You saying you're better than me?!?

Mmm? Hard to say.. Lol

Let's both run for president and see what shakes out

The other problem is that people think anyone that voted for Trump are racist idiots.

I voted for Trump, and I want to be critical. Unfortunately, the fake news screaming wolf anytime Trump makes a tweet, and it's starting to desensitize me to actual criticisms against Trump.

Honestly some of his tweets are unbefitting of the president, but I am aghast at his presidency thus far.

You realize that " unbefitting of the president" sound like some old school monarchy shit right? Thats the part of your brain that wants to put a person in a place of power in a pedestal and have them lead you by what you think a leader should be.

The only unpresedential thing a president could do is something that is detrimental to the country. If him excersizeing his first amendment rights on social media( even if it's an opinion tou don't like) is deemed unbeffitting to you , you might be looking for a monarch, or a president that doesn't act like a regular human for his tenure.

There's a difference between acting like a regular human and acting like a petulant child. Most of his tweets amount to attacks, whining, and bragging. That's not appropriate for someone who is supposed to be representing an entire country.

Really ? There are people who would describe what MLK was doing as acting like a petulant child". You don't see the folly I'm saying " here is why it's dumb for the person in this position of power , to express himself in the fashion they are doing".

Not only that but who gets to decide what's appropriate for someone representing the entire country? You? Peop that think like you? If it literally doesn't effect the job he is doing you realize how dumb the argument or position of " well he doesn't act the way I think a president should act" is right?

Youre really comparing Trump to MLK?

What? You'd have to mentally deficient or a rabid anti trumpster( big over lap in those 2 populations) to interpret anything that comment as comparing trump to mlk.

Nah... that's exactly what you did.

"exactly what I did" not even " sounds like what I was doing"? So you're mentally deficient.

And there are those that would argue Trump is abusing his power on Twitter and elsewhere by publically slandering people/organizations and libel.

His 2nd rights do not cover slander and libel but his civil immunity as president does and he's abusing the shit out of it.

Call me crazy but I do expect our presidents to act professionally when they make public statements or use official presidential handles.

This is how most jobs work and last I checked he works for the American people. What he says unofficially in private is his own business and I respect that.

THANK YOU. Jesus wtf is wrong with people. How can people tolerate this behavior? Seriously wtf

Not to be mean, but he probably doesn't give a shit, because he knows his base.

You should probably avoid this sub.

Agreed. i'll ride this downvote train with you..

Trump twitters liked a spoiled vindictive 14 yr old girl. Ive lost count of how many side splittingly hilarious tweets ive had to verify because i just couldnt believe they werent satire. I enjoy the shit out of trumps twitter addiction. His unintentional hilarity is one of the silver linings of his presidency.

The infamous twitter fight with Rosie o Donnell is something no one even seemed to remember, and yet it was crazy stuff. Both of them of course, but still.

Two fat fucking clowns having grade school caliber twitter fueds.

Like trashing clean water regulations perhaps?

When you get hired for a job, you're expected to put on a professional face to the public, which means dressing and behaving professionally. People in public-facing professions have been fired for far less than what Trump does on Twitter. You're demanding that we have lower standards for Trump than we'd have for almost anyone else, and you're not doing it because you have some sort of sympathy for him, but because when people criticize him, it makes you feel uncomfortable and upset.

Honestly some of his tweets are unbefitting of the president

Certainly there are worse things to criticize.

Not everyone who voted for trump is a racist idiot. However everyone who voted for trump is ok with our leader being a racist idiot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DLJwh9GLX7Y

Eh. I'd be very surprised if Trump actually gave two shits about race. I think he loves money more than he cares about someone's skin color. I (admittedly just a guess) think he probably views race as incidental.

The guy who got sued twice for racial discrimination by the Department of Justice? LOL.

Because he wouldn't rent to blacks, yes I know.

And do you not see how in the 80's, that might have been financially motivated?

Because you think Black people are poor and can't afford apartments?

K.

What does the commenter's own thoughts have to do with their statement? You pointed out that his BUSINESS got sued for racial discrimination. The replier pointed out that incident happened in the 70's, which was a racially charged era in a totally different time. The replier did not offer his or her own opinion of the situation. Stop inciting and trying to turn everything into racism.

The replier pointed out that incident happened in the 70's, which was a racially charged era in a totally different time.

So racism happening in the 70's isn't racism now? Got it.

Why are you obsessed with racism? (White racism only, of course).

This is a sub for free thinkers. Not brain dead politically correct drones. Part of that is not seeing the World through the tiny Lib/Left/Anti-White/Establishment prism with its miniscule corridor of potential thought.

r/socialism is that way >>>

Obsessed? The entire context of the discussion is Donald Trump's discrimination against African Americans in the 1970's. Of course it's going to be about "White Racism". You're ridiculous.

U cant give one good example demonstrating his "racism"

I'm not claiming he's a card carrying KKK member. But he literally got sued twice for refusing to rent to black tenants.

If that's not even a relevant example in your book, then maybe you should stick to your echo chamber in The_Donald.

You don't know who the tenants were, their history, etc. You should get your nose out of my history and stick to the topic at hand. In fact, I don't think Trump is great. I just go there for laughs.

You don't know who the tenants were, their history, etc.

LOL. Neither did they.

A supervisor "told me that if a black person came to 2650 Ocean Parkway and inquired about an apartment for rent, and he, that is [redacted] was not there at the time, that I should tell him that the rent was twice as much as it really was, in order that he could not afford the apartment," the ex-doorman said.

But was it trump that ordered that? No it was someone who was working for him

Because Trump is going to give directions directly to a doorman? Hah.

.

Or you're just being purposefully dense, and ignoring that it was an order that came down the ladder from Trump.

He acknowledged that they discriminated against people, but claimed it was to avoid "welfare cases".

Even using the term "racism" reveals that you are nothing but a drone. That you have no idea what I'm talking about is all the more proof of what I'm saying. Go away and come back in a few years when you've learned something.

At the moment, free thought is not for you.

("bigot" "whaa" "racist" "whaa whaa" incoming in 3..2..1..)

Even using the term "racism" reveals that you are nothing but a drone.

Not even 0/10.

Reddit, never change.

So you can't defend your point of view. Got it.

You don't even know what my point of view is you smug pleb.

You're just determined to have the last word because you're an asshole.

Go and research the etymology of the word racist.

You don't know what my point of view is on anything whatsoever, you smug pleb.

The irony is hilarious. You're honestly on the verge of /r/iamverysmart material.

Still not done your homework you arrogant, know nothing cock womble?

I understand it's painful and humiliating to be schooled in public, your replies reek of your shame, but it's important that you are corrected else you will never learn where you have erred.

You will come back here and apologise and thank me once you have gone away and learned the origins of your widdle shamy buzzwords.

Lol. Schooled in public, because you don't think racism exists, and identifying racism makes you a 'drone'.

I'm just enjoying your ranting on a high horse while calling me smug and arrogant. Beyond comical. Look forward to your next rant, serious popcorn material.

No, because lots of people at that time were racist and wouldn't want to share an apartment with blacks.

So enabling racism is okay if you can make more money.

I think being racist to make money is worse.

Although, that's a hard call for sure.

I don't think he's racist.

I'm certain the only colors which are important to him are green and gold.

Not everyone who voted for trump is a racist idiot

I know blacks and mexicans that voted for him. Despite public opinion, there are legal 1st gen mexicans and 2nd+ generation mexicans that actually don't care if we have strict control over immigration - they might even full well support it. There are blacks that are not convinced he's racist simply because he wants more control over the border. There are plenty of people that don't think he's a rapist because he made some extremely lewd comments.

So many fucking ad hominem attacks on people this election. That's what pissed me off the most. I don't like Trump whatsoever but I fully support others' rights to vote for who they want even if it's not my preferred candidate. This is a fucking democracy. They have a right to put their word in and vote for the leader of their choice. I don't have to respect their decision but I damn well support their right to make it and I'm not going to use it as an attack against their character.

We only have two real choices, and I have to believe that people have a good reason to vote for one or the other. Otherwise, we're just setting up an elective dictatorship and counting on the "good" choice being made. I can't hate people for making a decision in representation that I didn't make. If there's no choice, then the people don't have true representation, and democracy failed. That scares me much, much more than my candidate losing.

You made us do it by making us think you was gonna get that crooked bitch hillary in, who was gonna take away all our rights, and fill the country with shitty people. You can call people racist if you want but I don't care. They need to fix their own problems, and we need to fix ours. Believe it or not, racism isn't the biggest problem the U.S faces in the 21st century.

Peak oil, global warming, overpopulation, and the desertification of the soil, those are our biggest problems. People are stupid, so they have to be fed a stupid naritive, and the reality is, the world not gonna be sustaining more the a billion or two in the next Hundred years. People need to look at the real issues. At least trump will keep the country strong, and keep the country from being flooded with refugees.

You think one of the biggest issues is global warming, while Trump doesn't even believe in it and so far has shown nothing to actually recognise and slow down climate change

I didn't support trump or vote for him until I saw how the media was treating him and his family. Then it made me realize that if he's getting so much ire from these statusquotarians, then he's doing it right. If he's pissing off all these establishement corrupt gangsters, then I can get behind him.

"If you're taking flak then you're over the target"

Yeah, I'm really hoping we're seeing the end of a fascist regime. Coincidentally, I had my own reaction, too, knowing these elites follow satanic rituals; -- it's reconnected me with Christianity.

Liberal atheist to conservative Christian. Trump is president, and I voted for him. Have to say: life is pretty unpredictable. Really didn't see any of this coming.

How is that hopey thing working out?

Whether or not any of how I feel is real, I feel like it's given my life purpose, so I haven't felt as depressed in life.

So, it's kinda helping me lead a more healthy lifestyle.

Anyways, logically, you can't prove a negative, i.e. you can't prove there isn't a God, so you may as well just invite the possibility that a God can exist. There's a history of religious belief, and it's sorta interesting how atheism spawned from some rich people trying to kill the spirit of the world.

God bless!

I believe in higher power, but I don't call it anything. I just believe in spirit.

Corruption is Legal in America https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tu32CCA_Ig

made me realize that if he's getting so much ire from these statusquotarians, then he's doing it right

No, it was the media getting ratings.

I was under the impression that the 9/11 photos were the result of a FOIA request that was finally granted by FBI. Do you have any articles showing trump signed off on the release?

You can blame the very vocal far right supporters for that. We also have that problem with crazy far left people too.

Should have voted for Jill, America.

You realize that by voting you are willfully participating in the dog and pony show, right?

Unfortunately, the fake news screams wolf anytime Trump makes a tweet, and it's starting to desensitize me to actual criticisms against Trump.

This is the problem

I want to be angry with Trump. But the outrage of the media machine makes me lukewarm and dare I say supportive of him? You don't have to make up shit like they do

Trump uses Russian salad dressing! More info at 11.

Did Sean Spicer sell you that joke?

I was trying to hear where I heard it. I wouldn't have reused it if I had remembered it was a Spicey joke.

Hence, why a two party system is bad - hence why having voted for either Trump or Hillary makes you a fucking idiot.

Because not voting will end the two part system?

Wow you're indoctrinated. FYI Trump and Hillary weren't the only candidates.

Why so we have to be at one another's throats? So they made the best they could of a bad situation. We can all commiserate and then work together to try and work out a better solution. Or we can cuss at each other and call people names.

Or we can not vote for major party candidates.

Or that.

I said that once to a lawyer before a hearing. He was playing friendly but I shocked him and he seemed suddenly to see the world differently.

He said Ron Paul could never win so we have to go with the lesser evil. I said everyone says that but think about all the people you know voting for the lesser evil and what if we all refused and voted for someone outside the the two evils. That we are all conditioned to believe we throw our votes away going independent or 3rd party or classic Republican or classic liberal. Truth is if we all ignored that we would effect change.

So quit voting for any evil!

Also lots of people on reddit aren't American and think they both suck and just want to read some conspiracies.

This is the big issue for me. I love reading about politics and all the controversy, but I wish politics were banned on this sub. I want to read about how cave painting from 20,000 years ago appear to be a coded language that no one has deciphered and all of the documents about them are being gathered up and classified. Not political shit that already permeates so much of this website.

Wait is this a real thing I haven't heard about or?

And especially vice versa

So true. I've had people respond with long-winded diatribes about how horrible I am for supporting Trump when I've posted something critical of Hillary. It's ridiculous.

In my opinion the only ones naming Hillary since the elevtion is Trump fanboys.

I wish a president would stand up to authority and do things in the interest of the us citizens and not of govetnement organizations and big corporations but the last time someone did something like that they(J.F.K.) got assassinated.

I'm actually sick of the opposite. Because Hillary was so bad Trump is a god idea. I still hear that argument in defense of Trump all the time."But Hillary..."

I love how this is shamelessly posted on /r/conspiracy.

I don't post whataboutisms.

It's pathetic, but worst of all, it's irrelevant to conspiracies.

We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Flavor Flav would have been a better option than Hillary!

Lmao. I woulda voted for him over crooked Hill.

Yyyyyyeeeaahh boyyyeee!!!

Flav would be entertaining at least.Hillary is just a psycho bitch.

Shes such an out of touch person. East coast millionaire elitist who lives in a mansion. I dont know how she ever thought she could be the one to be our leader when she has nothing in common with the average middle american rural joe.

You're probably never going to get through to most Americans.

Obama was a fantastic president. Just compare him to all of them since JFK...

You are purposefully spreading shit now. No-one who critically looks at Obama's tenure can say he was that good:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeDZIyGkGNM

No-one who critically looks at Obama's tenure can say he wasn't​ a great president.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/historians-obama-12th-best-president-ever-donald-trump-bill-clinton-a7588706.html

See, I can do that too. The difference? Mine is a respected survey of presidential historians by CSPAN.

Yours "is a right wing biased conspiracy site." With a factual reporting rating of low.

But trump is going to drain the swamp. He's one of us. /s

I think Hillary would've made a fantastic Ambassador to Libya.

I think Hillary would've made a fantastic Ambassador to Libya.

Still could be.

ITT: people who sold out their country for shill bucks

she's doing great she is in her 5th year of pregnancy. thanks for asking

Yes but how do we stop the Trumpsters that keep posting propaganda like this OP?

I hate propagandists on both sides. None is better than the other. Yes, the American left is currently slightly more sane, but they are losing that ground by falling into the same conspiracy trap that happened to the american right during the obama years. fuck em all.

Just because they are all bad doesn't mean there aren't different degrees to which they are bad.

I'm really fucking sick of everyone thinking that - because of Trump - Hillary would have been a good option.

I thought that was the whole point of this narrative. To induce misgivings about not voting for Hillary.

THEY ARE ALL SELLOUTS. Does not matter one lick who you choose.

Then we all are. Is that your point? There is a lot wrong with US (worldwide) politics just as there is a lot wrong with our social system but in the end democracy comes down to a common course where the best route is pretty much clear (or so it would seem as in e.g. climate change, human rights, etc..) and compromise in all other aspects.

And let's get to your argument that the whole government is corrupt beyond measure: By which metric? Yeah, US politicians depend far more on donations than it is reasonable and lobbyism grew to be a cancer in decision making but if we take a look at the stances the Tea party took: Well, some people really believe in cutting social securities as a easure of personal freedom.

I dislike trump as much as the next sane person, but can we please stop saying that right wing folks are only allowed to post in the donald?

I find it funny that for 8 years we lead up to the tensions of the past administration. Enemies such as isis seemed manufactured. Wars seemed biased and convoluted...

Trump takes office. These crimes brought up under these past 8 years are sought out to be punishable offenses.

All hell breaks loose....

The only people attacking anyone right now are the guilty and those that care to support them-

Left right isn't an argument anymore.

Its past and future-

Those leaning left seem to want to live in the past- News flash, its the present now. Our wyes are collectively opened. We will find these criminals which affected our national standings. They will pay for their crimes.

If you dont acknowledge the full on destruction of syria. The robbery of obamacare. Nor the stark vetting of non cooperative foreign parties taking aide on your tax dollars. .

That is your choice entirely.

Just don't be surprised when their crimes come to light and it turns out you were wrong all along.

I have the impression that there is no real other way of looking at it.

As there is no criminal acts of the new administration that could even compare to the usa assisting the full on displacement of 22 million people in their lust for oil.

That happened... News flash-

When exactly was this magically time when society, any society ever, was not controlled by elites? I've come to the conclusion that enlightend societies (if they've ever really existed) area without fail, temporary in nature.

The President is a puppet until we can get rid of the Cabal. I think the Cabal has enough financial resources to bankrupt any nation, so they are feared. We need a President who will take a look inside, then tell us what needs to be changed so we can change it. Us outsiders need to know exactly how it works on the inside. I guarantee there are enough people in the world willing to push together to change this. The Cabal knows it, so they try their hardest to keep us all in the dark.

People I know hate Trump, and I understand why. However, they do not recognize that Trump is not the source of their pain. It is interesting how much their hatred for Trump clouds their judgement.

If Trump is removed from office, nothing will change. In fact, it would be worse for us with Pence.

wow, corrupt ass bitch? hijacked by idiots? political dickbags? Baaaaaaaaaaahhhhh (sheep sound)?

great points. someone should give you a platform to cry on.

And Aye for an Aye left the whole world blind?

I'll be the first to come out and say I disagree with things that a lot of people on this sub say and believe. That being said, the observation on divide and conquer is incredibly accurate. Whether it's intentional or not doesn't matter, because politicians profit off the polarization their policies cause. Sorry about the other comments. Your overall point is a very astute observation.

This thread seems like a shill tactic.

Yes. Everyone who disagrees with you is a shill paid by some billionaire in some far away land.

Who thinks this?

Not good, but arguably better. As I've said before, two different shades of shit.

Wait, you mean a bankrupted TV show star on the NBC payroll hasn't gone rogue and isn't taking the system down from the inside. I dunno, I've seen a lot of movies and it seems pretty probable from my perspective.

To add to this after the whole mess with the GOP healthcare plan some have seem to lose site that Obamacare is still flawed

all you fucking idiot cucks who believe that trump is lying about russia should be banned for being shills trump is one of the most humble and honest man ive ever known in my life hes already drained the swamp added his plans and got rid of the tpp what more can you fucking morons ask for! respect our president when he wins and give him a moment of silence for fucks sake hes a hard worker and deserves it

Zen, Buddhism, or something of this nature, is really the only answer. They teach you how to see through the mirage and walk the middle road.

People thinking one side is the way to go and the other is wrong. It's disgusting. Compromise? It's all a shit show? Get these political dickbags out of here who think their opinion is worth something.

Me thinks the doctor should take his own medicine.

Okay, you think the entire Govt. is rotten and that Republicans are no better than Democrats. That's fine.

Other people may think that Republicans are a little better than Democrats, or better than Democrats on issues that affect them personally, or even think that Republicans are perfect.

People thinking one side is the way to go and the other isn't disgusting. Politics is the art of thinking your side is the way to go and the other isn't and your individual opinion isn't worth any more than the people you like to call dickbags and sheep.

That's the thing, everyone IS blinded by propaganda at every corner. Id even go as far as saying that have been ideologically subverted Where they wont accept truth even if it is in front of their face if it contradicts their preconceived views.

Yeah you cant and it is frustrating. It is like talking to a wall. Boomers are the worste. Bunch of stubborn ass holes who watch television 4 hours a day while saying stuff like "That Hillary Clinton is a strong independent woman!"

Doesn't look like anything to me.

And it's not just the Russians who came to this conclusion:

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -William Casey (CIA Director)

You might have a point.

I can agree with everything you said, but you don't offer up a solution, which to me could only be to slip in an insurgent candidate who genuinely cannot be corrupted and has the loyal support of white hats in key positions, to dismantle the deep state control mechanisms and networks of disloyalists. Once we do this other nations around the world will seek their nationalism and help us rid of who seek to ultimately control everyone, global central bankers, corporate and misery profiteers.

I ran into one of the smartest former colleagues that I've ever had, whose boyfriend is a freelance news writer/editor and does work with CNN. She was very excited about some inside rumor that Trump was taking to his staff about resignation, adding, "If he's out, then we at least know we're not going to bomb Iran or something else as dumb."

Yes, everyone is blind. In a different setting, I might have reminded her that a pre-emptive war with Iran was part of HRC's campaign platform, echoed by other old-school legislatives over the last few years.

My therapist brought up the Russian's intervention in our elections, collusion with Trump and meddling in Syria. I stopped seeing her.

This is true. People are blind but can also think they are awake. My coworker is full conspiracy theory follower(UFO, govt spying on us etc.) but she whole heartedly follows what CNN/msnbc/msm puts out. She's fully on board with trump being the next hitler with racism/fascism etc agenda

It's crazy.

You should report her to the board of ethics. If one of my physicians ever brought up politics, on any side, I'd stop seeing them and file a complaint. That is totally inappropriate.

The fact Trump was elected proves why Clinton/Obama were so bad.

Not conspiracy, just plain logic.

didn't read the whole thread so i don't know if i'm repeating a point made, sorry if i am.

the way it looks to me, your characterizations don't represent the majority of people on the left. i believe the majority of them were were also very disappointed by obama's failings, and openly concerned by clinton's shadyness.

a lot of those people were concerned enough to in fact to support a different democrat candidate, and even more would shamefully admit after the fact there was manipulation by insiders of their party to ensure bernie didn't win the nomination.

but the point is that this, what i claim to be, majority of democrats supported their party and candidate in the election as the far lesser of two evils.

i don't think it's controversial to say that democratic politicians in the past decades have largely been corrupt and sinister in the traditional fashion, where as republicans have been off the reservation in their level of hypocracy and incredulity. looking at just the presidents:

• you have an idiot who let his administration be taken over by his vp and capitulated in unprecedented deception leading to unnecessary war and the lives & trillions it wasted. not to mention the incompetence (at best) to let the events happen that initiated all that. policies and appointments that led to environmental disasters and financial ruin

• that man's senior, a spook from the old days who literally knew where the bodies were buried, and far deeper in the pockets of the saudi's than what the worst of the hillary citicisms could sink to. continued the expansion of the military industry complex amidst an overall reduction in global tension

• this current horror show ... there's just too much to mention! it's ironic that it's the party of patriotism & responsibility who nominated perhaps the least patriotic and irresponsible candidate in america's history

vs on the left:

• bill's run of the mill corporate favoritism, a few disasterous policies, though largely righting the economic and depravity of the previous decade

• a man who didn't live up to the promises and expectations of an actual liberal, who turned out to be another centrist. vast competent compared to the jokers who bookended him, his largest criticisms are that he continued or expanded some policies of the previous administration: foreign policy, surveillance. economic recovery during unprecedented & hypocritical inaction by his opposition

in the hindsight of a mere dozen weeks, was it not clear to everyone that your nation would have been vastly better served by electing the other candidate? that there was a chance of working to pressure and oppose the bad while enjoying the good of another competent administration? is it not clear to everyone that in comparison, we're witnessing an utter disaster whose only bright side is that impeachment, on many counts, is a near certainty before he makes his first SOTU address.

funny how preceding the most recent impeachment row in the late 90s, years and millions were spent investigating, turning over every stone, and the most damning case the investigators could find was that bill was a rather a horndog. whereas a couple months into 45's term, the treason and corruption are blatant.

Preach it preacher. We got ur back. Dont worry about the shills. Anything main on reddit is jesuit shill ridden. You are 100%. The real people see the truth all others are just being transferred to another matrix. They will fall back asleep in a bit, after their cookie and red steak

LOL.

Having lived in countries with actual impactful corruption, I can say without reservation: bullshit. Human are inherently "corrupt" and that will never change. You are no different, yet America has rewarded you far beyond what you deserve, despite the inevitable corruption.

Besides, you are in r/conspiracy. This place might as well be run directly by Moscow.

It isn't that simple.

It is based on a little hope. Yeah there are similarities, but there were definitely huge differences that indicate, for the first time I know of in my life, a possible outsider canddidate.

Yes its possible he is just establishment being used to divide people, but we only have our conjecture for that. We just keep that in mind and for now follow the evidence and that points at him not being establishment.

Sure he is still corrupt corporate shill, but the mideast and global agenda doesnt seem as strong if there at all.

You can call people that go all in sheep if you want, but to me you dont look any different because there is undeniable information that points to a difference between this candidate and the establishment. He still might be, and uf he isnt he no doubt woyld build his own, hut there is still plenty that points to him not being.

Open your mind. Don't get so caught up in dismissing beliefs because then you can rapid fire dismiss a belief without looking at all angles of what created it.

Right now there is a pull away from the establishments stated and obvios number one priority of removing Assad.

Also, and everyone should consider this, there WAS a friendly disposition between Trump and Russia, but the esyablishment keeps harping on this story with no evidence. Why? Well we know they have desire to fight russia because it is inevitable to achieve all middle east goals. So how do you keep ties strained and keep a friendly relationship from developing? Make the leader afraid to involve himself with anything Russian for fear of looking a way that might give credibility to the lie.

I don't mind Obama at least he seemed to really try to think things through.

My decision on the Trump is out until he signs or not the selling people's internet history's law. If he does that I reckon he's just like one of them.

"Hillary, stay in the woods. Okay. You had your shot. You f*cked it up. This to me — the fact that she’s come back, it just verifies every bad thing anyone’s ever thought about the Clintons, that it’s all about them." Bill Maher

So I've been awoke for a while, but I've been in the military for a few years longer. I'm coming up on 11 and I should have a few more years, I'm done lying to myself and to others about the cause I'm doing. I was going to try and do the whole 20 years, but I'm a submariner and I'm fucking spent man. I'm going to med board for injurys I've sustained over the years and I'm pursuing to get out. I'm sick and tired of everything that the government has become and I'm sick and tired of just bitching about it, so I'm going to go back to school and do my god damndest to get into politics and try and make a change myself. I don't know what I'll be able to do, but I'm done talking and I'm going to try and stop it.

I didn't really know what I would do with my life, and I was always so upset and bitter about the things I saw and listening to the idiots around me rationalize this shit, and just living and breathing hate and feeling so lost when I thought about my future but when I thought some more the only light at the end of the tunnel was seeing the bullshit all around us, and deciding I need to do something to try and change it.

From 'ole Teddy Roosevelt "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share my thoughts. Thanks.

Great comment! Just thought I'd let you know since this will inevitably be buried at the bottom of the heap. You have the right attitude which so many of us lack.

Not everyone but most don't care enough to even vote,and the few who really do do by cui bono...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDQztM1iONA

This point only gets made when a Republican is in power, because all the Republican presidents for the last 40 years have been disappointing and New World Order lackeys.

But when a Democrat takes office, suddenly the concept of 'it doesn't matter who is in charge' is swept aside.

What about...Bernie?

Trump is chemotherapy and Hillary is cancer. Alone, they are both inherently bad, reviled things.

Ideally, enough Trump will cure what Hillary represents and the country gets past both of these types of candidates.

Too much Trump will kill the patient or make the patient more sick...but the patient was going to slowly die from cancer eventually anyhow.

This is me being optimistic.

I came here to talk about how the government is going to eventually feed us to each other and aliens. Politics are bullshit and always have been. Both sides are exactly the same. This is how it would have went with Ralph Nader had he finally won.

Don't get discouraged the people looking for actual conspiracy are here. I've been meaning to ask where the real users moved to.

It's all our presidents man. Look at history. Look at South Korea. The 8 goddesses. It's one ruler. We have been duped.

I reality. We aren't at our optimal form of government. We're a monarchy in disguise.

Trumps an idiot, Hilary is corrupt, Obama was complicated with a mixture of good and bad. The problem with this sub is every one is so set in their ways, they refuse to consider alternate hypotheses to the one they formulate in their heads, then when faced with a coherent arguement decide to place head in sand

Obama sent drones to kill people based on very scanty and unreliable information and he prosecuted more whistleblowers that all previous presidents combined. His defense of the government's story about what happened on 9/11 was what really turned me against him. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afUS_58XC5I

If Clinton were president, we'd be on track with the Paris climate change agreement. That alone should be enough to make her a better president, unless you prefer rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

Exactly.

The tone of your comment also polarises people.

The Kremlin doesn't give a shit who you support, Democrat or Republican, they want to see the destruction of the US government. And Trump and his administration are sure doing a great job of that, hiring people for every department who want to destroy those departments. I don't give a shit what party Trump belongs to, he tows the line for the Russian propaganda machine very hard. And information warfare, specifically regarding Russia, is THE biggest threat to democracy right now. All this he said she said bullshit doesn't even matter. People are completely blind to this threat, and the US is not prepared for it AT. ALL. We are fucked.

No. But the problem is that the Hillaryites--a vast majority being soros paid sockpuppet mclosers from craigslist and/or military contractors and a smaller number of people uncritically inculcated by them--now represent a much larger demo here in /r/conspiracy than before Oct 17th of last year, when there was an exodus of long time people or at least diminished activity because no one want to argue with youtube-commenter-caliber commenters in their old stomping grounds.

It's extraordinarily frustrating. So much so I started a new sub just so I could not have to deal with those people. It's truthleaks btw and it's really focused on taking down hillary. I think Trump is ok. I dont' worry about trump or anything he's doing. I feel that our country will perish if HRC is unpunished.

Not wanting to engage in debate with those that have different opinions is a disappointing and closed position to take.

Im really fucking sick of this sub being a de facto t_d sub-sub reddit. Take this shit somewhere else and let's talk aliens.

OP: Godspeed to you, my Compadre. You Nailed exactly what I've been thinking on this sub for.....awhile. War and Enriching Friends was, is, and ALWAYS will be the name of the game for any POTUS.....

I don't think everyone is thinking that. I think you're just falling for MSM's propaganda to make you think exactly that.

Hillary 100% sellout. Trump is now 100% a sellout. Welcome. Elizabeth Warren 25% a sellout. Bernie Sanders .00314 % a sell out.

There are levels tho, there's a difference between not fucking someone and cutting your dick off.

Time and time again most people oh, it's just the worst of two evils, and for a long time I was one of them. I bitch and whine about it all the time, and I'm sick and tired of just doing it. We elect these people to be our fucking voice, and like you said time and time again they just shit all over us any chance they get.

I've been active duty for the last 11 years, but would consider myself aware for the last few. I'm looking at a medical separation coming up within the next few months and see it as a fresh start to try and make some good. I have grown more and more bitter over the years dealing with the same crap and just becoming more cold and hateful of everything because of it. My wife and I talked we discussed things and she helped me to finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

She has gotten sick of my bullshit because of it and told me to stop just whining about it and go do something about it if I'm really so angry about everything. That's it, this is my chance other than just talking to friends and family about things to try and actually make a change. I've decided to go back to school and get into politics and try and truly do my part to make some change.

I don't know what I'll be able to do, but I'm going to try my absolute hardest to do everything I can to show people it doesn't have to be the way it has been for so long. The more of us that try to actually do something can maybe increase the chances to see it do any have to be like that.

From Theodore Roosevelt "It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat."

Sorry it was a long post, I'm just so sick and god damn tired of everything, and I really want to try everything I can to show everyone it doesn't have to be like this. We don't need to be working for these people, they needed to be reminded they work for us. Thanks for reading.

I think there are corruption issues within our government and then they are found I think those involved should be punished to thr fullest extent of the law, however taking the world as a whole I don't view the US as one of the more corrupt governments.

Anyone else feel that way?

hillary is a criminal nazi scumbag who is going to jail for a long long time

She won't be prosecuted

no no she definitely will. it's coming. which is why we are seeing increasing democratic hysteria

They're all sold out. Stop making it a contest.

Either "party" nothing changes - for decades

OP is 100% correct - When are you people going to wake up?

think of it like this, we could unite and rebuild a new government but I don't think people are willing to make the sacrifices or can handle what this world would turn into or at least America if there was a collapse in society, rather than pick up a weapon and "fight the system" they'd rather be armchair politicians who bitch and moan on facebook talking to their friends about their disdain about politics and whatever and it falls upon numb eyes and ears, we are fucked, we were born fucked and we are all just cattle. They just want to sound right, but wtf does it take to BE right?

you aint alone. its no secret that the democrats and republicans work together. there is NO difference between the two. its the illusion of choice. the illusion that they are at odds, while in reality its US who are divided, and thats exactly where they want us.

Welcome to America.

Nothing short of a full blown revolution will fix this corrupt system, and that would come with immense costs.

We're just slaves with a number. Nothing more. The greatest solace to all of it though is that all of these corrupt assholes will die some day.

I'm an Australian so I look on at the U.S. political game with cynicism for both sides. But what I just want to mention and ask you all is: do you feel capitalism is the right answer? I mean I'm not a socialist/libtard/cuck/whatever the fck else stupid adjective social media slaves want to use, but the question must be asked.

The U.S. isn't just another capitalist democracy, it is THE capitalist democracy which built on the founding economic theory of Netherlands and other capitalist countries. And I personally believe capitalism is needed, some free-market forces are required in order to encourage innovation and economic growth. However, I believe the neoliberal experiment (Reagonomics) which has shaped the world in the last 30 years has failed and is the major contributor to much of the problems you (OP) describe. Although neoliberalism touted small government, it was a tool used by the U.S. (building on the foundations after WW2 when they started the architecture with the founding of the U.N.) to force smaller global economies into globalism - If you aren't aligned with the IMF, WHO, etc and are a moderately sized economy like Australia, SEAsia countries or European countries, what happens to your economy if you don't align with the global monetary standard? So the U.S. was able to force much of the world, and especially western world, into neoliberalism and the globalist structure and we have all chased this neoliberal (ultra-capitalism) ideal where political parties don't matter because multinational corporations have the lobbying and economic power to force their weight across multiple global economies.

The tldr: the neoliberal experiment was able to reduce government size whilst creating the latest gap accelerating at a rate quicker than ever seen in history between the gap between the 1% and the rest of us.

Like I said, I'm not a socialist but ultra capitalism (neoliberalism and I even think some U.S. media calls it crony capitalism now) has made politics obsolete. Lobbying is the true power and I believe every scandal, secret, even military operation is orchestrated by the money aka the elite.

Furthermore, has anyone actually read Das Kapital? I know everyone just rolls their eyes and doesn't bother, but Marx actually argued that capitalism was a stage of socioeconomic development, not an end game. His endgame was socialism. When we all look at how shit the world is now and how large the gap between rich and poor is and continues to grow, you can't help but wonder if our preconditioned way of thinking (socialists bad, capitalism good) is part of the indoctrination.

Lastly, we work to obtain wealth to pass on when we die. Otherwise what's the point? This is a uniquely European concept. Indigenous cultures across the globe, before European contact, built great cities and had complex social structures, without the need for acquiring mass wealth. There is something about that which makes me feel I've swallowed the blue pill and am a robot.

Disclaimer: first big post, don't rape hard. Also, all this is theory, I'm a soldier in the Aussie Army and am not a hippie/red/libtard/socialist/safe space/etc etc. I just wonder why few have it all and billions have none.

Maybe youre wrong? Trump isnt a politician. I hear what youre saying and I think our politics are full of swamp. I think Trump is absolutely genuine in his desire to make this country prosper. Its not fair to put him in the same boat. Being rich isnt the same as being a politician. I see a lot of the communist leftist type just assume evil, because a person has money.

Trumps keeping his promises. Going down the list and checking them off. Fighting dems and reps/media/deep state/globalist. You best be having his back, chomo

American politics in a nutshell

Here's the thing, trump was perfectly happy just living his life being a billionaire. He sacrificed that, to put up with all the crap he has to now on a daily basis because he really does want to try and change things. Regardless of who you may believe

See I want to believe that I really do. However, his actions don't demonstrate it. Why wouldn't he show his taxes, not a cherry-picked year months later, but the last 10 years? Why doesn't he denounce racial attacks when they happen against a minority, but will happily tweet violence against his supporters? Why did he simply disappear during the roll out of the ACA?

I want to believe, but he's making it hard.

He is not sacrificing a thing. He still runs his empire from the oval office now. His mega ego told him he could be the greatest president ever. NOT. Right now he is one of the worst and I don't think he will be president long enough to change that perception.

If you compare Honduras' soccer team to Canada's soccer team, Honduras has a good soccer team. Same thing here.

"Everyone"

In what parallel universe exactly?

The Obama wank fest is irritating the life out of me.

Yes, he was better than the current clown, but don't pretend he's suddenly Abraham Lincoln.

Obama wasn't a good president. He expanded NSA mass surveillance. He launched new wars around the Middle East.

Clinton wouldn't have been any different. She loves the deep state, mass surveillance, and would have had us invading Syria, if not Iran.

Trump won't be a good president either. He's OK with mass surveillance, he's putting boots on the ground in Syria.

It doesn't actually matter who you vote for. The president is just a front. The ones really in charge of things aren't elected, and they want more mass surveillance, and more war - and they always get what they want.

Few articles that are pretty interesting and highlights that government by design was installed to protect the wealthy and powerful of the "bewildered herd" called the populace from taking their lands and holdings for themselves. The Democracy we have isn't a factual democracy and was never meant to be, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that the only two "available" political parties at the end of the day do the bidding of power.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2939630

http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/bernprop.html

http://eyler.freeservers.com/JeffPers/jefpco55.htm

http://www.counterpunch.org/2015/09/18/republicans-democrats-and-the-grand-farce-of-elections/

Only by either not voting or making a truly COORDINATED effort to go third and fourth party can we see results in favor of the people and not the wealthy.

God Emperor Trump is a true Patriot, non-globalist Republican.

lol.

Canadian, so you can consider my point moot if necessary, but i pay attention to this shit because people I love live there and their well-being matters to me. Trump's a total fuck obviously, that racist pos grandpa you wish would just die instead of telling you to get married right quick before pinching your bum. Mostly harmless, if only he hadn't scraped the rest of the scum off the underside of Washington and put them in the Whitehouse. His attempts at legislation aren't what affects me in the great white north but his filthy rhetoric is already inspiring racist and misogynistic sentiment here in Toronto. Trump is whatever but his getting elected empowers the Betsy's and Mike's and the Brietbarts to fulfill their archaic agendas, further the advancement of the wealthy, white, male-privileged, and maintain our enslavement to this Imperial capitalist machine. There's so much fucking garbage floating in the ether, I understand it's hard to know what's real or fake, but words fucking matter. Trump got elected because he used language that made the poor uneducated religious white people feel justified in their distrust of minorties, and 'nasty women' (re: Hilary but also any woman who believes in intersectional feminism.) The language that gets used in our daily lives all serves a purpose and seeks to connect us to ideas and knowledge or exclude and misinform us. The shit he's said over and over again, the shit members of his cabinet BELIEVE tells me they haven't fucking evolved with the rest of us, and having those christian/religious ideologies be the basis of reform is extremely counterintuitive. Unfortunately we're so fucking entrenched in this reality that there is no hope of peaceful resolution. Since thats the case, my vote is group suicide, who's in?

Bernie Sanders was America's last hope, too bad the DNC torpedoed his campaign.

No one with a brain thinks that. Don't get overwhelmed by the amount of propaganda they push and stupid people's opinion.

Focus on the deep state. These stooges (Hillary, Trump, JFK, Reagan etc.) are totally dispensible, and if they were not owned on day one, sold out on day one, it makes no difference, the deep state will get the message to them even if it has to kill them or their family.

We have got to get the deep state and also the corporations out of the real drivers seat. None of those politicians work for you and me, except enough to get us to believe their lies.

I think both are terrible, and ultimately it's the gigacorps who really make the decisions anyway. But I live in Canada so all I can really do is watch the world burn.

FUCK THESE POLITICS WE ARE TRAPPED IN. NO MAN IN A SUIT WILL SAVE US. BURN IT ALL DOWN AMD START AGAIN. ROME SHALL FALL AGAIN AND AGAIN

Yes. Is the short answer to the question in the title. You'll only see some kind true revolution in government led by "the people" when food and water are at risk.

I like the way Julian Assange put it. Trump is a wolf in wolves' clothing where as Obama was a wolf in sheep's clothing. They're both assholes, one just knew how to spin public opinion in their favor while the other is a blabbering jackass.

I'll be extremely honest: I don't believe any of the conspiracy theories about Clinton or Trump.

Trump is no Russian spy, and Hillary Clinton is no pedophile/ISIS supporter/corrupt bankster, etc.

That being said, Hillary was demonized by the insane Right way too much. There are countless examples, but the best one is how people here thought Trump was good and Hillary literally wanted WWIII with Russia and wanted to bomb Syria, shooting down Russian planes.

This was splattered ad nauseam across the internet, especially here.

And yet, in this private speech of hers, she actually argues against doing all that:

But the idea that we would have like a no fly zone — Syria, of course, did have when it started the fourth biggest Army in the world. It had very sophisticated air defense systems. They’re getting more sophisticated thanks to Russian imports. To have a no fly zone you have to take out all of the air defense, many of which are located in populated areas. So our missiles, even if they are standoff missiles so we’re not putting our pilots at risk — you’re going to kill a lot of Syrians. So all of a sudden** this intervention that people talk about so glibly becomes an American and NATO involvement where you take a lot of civilians. In Libya we didn’t have that problem. It’s a huge place. The air defenses were not that sophisticated and there wasn’t very — in fact, there were very few civilian casualties. That wouldn’t be the case. And then you add on to it a lot of the air defenses are not only in civilian population centers but near some of their chemical stockpiles. **You do not want a missile hitting a chemical stockpile. We have a big set of issues about what is going to happen with those storehouses of chemicals since a lot want their hands on them.

So, she's against establishing a NFZ in Syria, points out that it would endanger American pilots, take Syrian lives, and cause mass casualties. She even uses the word "glibly" to describe those who wanted a war in Syria!

Remember how she was supposedly in bed with the Saudis so they could "fund ISIS"?

That’s been complicated by the fact that the Saudis and others are shipping large amounts of weapons—and pretty indiscriminately—not at all targeted toward the people that we think would be the more moderate, least likely, to cause problems in the future, but this is another one of those very tough analytical problems.”

If she were a Saudi puppet, why would she admit they were funnelling money to Jihadist groups?

Remember, these are her private speeches. This is who she truly is and what she thought.

A fine person, smeared as being a pedophile/corrupt person, etc. The story behind this is also simple:

I believe there was a large double standard appliesdtowards Hillary.

Hillary's approval ratings after she stepped down as SoS were the 2nd-highest for any leaving SoS (after Powell). Republicans at the time were publicly panicking that she'd be "impossible" to defeat if she ran for POTUS again, presumably in 2016. Thus began the Benghazi and the emails sagas. Here's an article way back from 2013:

Republicans Fear Clinton in 2016

One early primary state RNC member put it simply: “If she gets in, we’re toast.”

“We thought we could beat her [in 2008] because she was seen as bitter and unlikeable — and that’s what Obama proved,” said one Republican operative at the meeting. But Clinton finished her tenure as Secretary of State with stratospheric approval ratings, has added four years of Cabinet-level foreign policy making to her resume, and appears far less likely to face a strong 2016 primary challenge like the one Obama mounted in 2007 and 2008. “We’re hoping she doesn’t run, because if she does, she’ll win,” said the same operative.

...

Overhearing discussions about Clinton in the hallway outside the RNC meeting, Jorge Landivar, a Ron Paul-backing delegate to the 2012 Republican convention from Texas, chimed in: “All the polls say she will destroy anyone that we put up — it’s [f—ng] terrifying.” National polling from Quinnipiac University finds that Clinton, the most popular national political figure, would defeat New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie 45 – 37 percent; Florida Sen. Marco Rubio 50 – 34 percent and Rep. Paul Ryan 50 – 38 percent.

And one former Romney aide here warned that grassroots activists pushing for an even more conservative GOP identity could seal the party’s fate: “If we listen to some of the people here and come back with a hardline conservative in 2016, she’ll wipe the floor with us.”

Might I remind you about what Kevin McCarthy said back in September of 2015:

“Everybody thought Hillary Clinton was unbeatable right? But we put together a Benghazi Special Committee, a select committee. What are her numbers today? Her numbers are dropping," McCarthy said. "Why? Cause she’s untrustable. But no one would have known any of that had happened had we not fought and made that happen,”

But Vox puts it the best:

So somehow an investigation that once upon a time was about a terrorist attack on an American consulate becomes an inquiry into Freedom of Information Act compliance, which shifts into a question about handling of classified material. A probe of sexting by the husband of a woman who works for Clinton morphs into a quest for new emails, and if the emails turn out not to be new at all (which seems likely), it will morph into some new questions about Huma Abedin’s choice of which computers to use to check her email.

...

It’s the same drive that led to Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial on the grounds that he had perjured himself to try to cover up an affair that was uncovered in an investigation that was originally supposed to be looking into a years-old Arkansas land deal on which the Clintons had lost money. The Whitewater investigation did not reveal any crimes. So rather than wrap things up and consider the Clintons exonerated, the investigators went looking under other rocks and came up with Monica Lewinsky.

Clinton’s critics know she’s guilty, they're just trying to decide what she's guilty of

Want to know the name of the entity that sued the State Department to release Hillary's emails? Citizens United. Should sound familiar.

It really is Brave New World. Smears about spies, pedophillia, prostitutes, Jews, banksters, "Globalists", Rostchilds, Zionists, etc. only distract from debate about the policy positions of political candidates.

Who benefits from this? The Republican party, the Conservative-entertainment-media complex that spreads conspiracy theories (ad revenue), and America's enemies.

Funny thing is, I'm a Canadian. Most Americans don't bother with this stuff, which is sad.

nonpartisan

Let's go after the political enemies of Donald Trump and call it non-partisan! Yea, that'll get everyone attention!

War: "a state of armed conflict between different nations or states or different groups within a nation or state."

This is exactly what Obama orchestrated in office. War. Armed conflict = US armed with drones spying on and bombing different nations/states/groups.

I don't think you understand what war means.

You forgot the most important one - neither one will stop the endless, failed foreign wars that the US does over and over at huge expense, failing every time to achieve either strategic or humanitarian objectives.

You're right. In the end we're arguing over crumbs while the real problems remain unchallenged.

Haven't been in a long time to be honest. Floating around r/conspiracy everything is pretty tame. I mean.. right now the entire internet is team hillary vs team trump. It's all pretty engrossing. From my perspective we are at end game here. Financial collapse coinciding with Civil War and World War. It's going to be pointless and impossible in understanding who, what, why, how. Just have to survive if it's your destiny and accept that the lord of this world is the lord of this world because of it's willingness to commit evil and destruction no other sociopath is capable of. And still these peon sociopaths will try. Trump is a narcissist and looks capable and smart against the mid tier peon power structure. But as he pushes he will start to come face to face with who's really in control. And that power fully intends to turn this earth into a nuclear wasteland when the time comes.

I'm saying the situation is far more complicated than "money good, privacy bad" - Republicans.

They both don't care about your privacy, and Democrats are just playing politics to smear the Republicans for it. That's their right and all, and the Republicans are pretty dumb for falling into the trap to give people a reason to turnout in 2 years.

They fuck too much shit up in these two years they will never get the supermajority they need to pass everything they want.

So the fact that some things are the same means there can't possibly be other differences? You're quite astute.

The point he's making without outright saying it is that this was widely considered a political move to make trump look bad. Obama and the government knew this shit would get repealed, that's why they did it. It's not that they actually wanted it and the republicans didn't. None of them wanted it.

This is how they trick you into picking sides. You have the republican side that they often make to look like the stubborn, ignorant, corrupt old dudes that have too much power. Then you have the democrat side who is made to look like the good guys always voting for nice things but they just somehow never have the power to accomplish it (except when they have the power they still never accomplish anything and when it's required they still pass the evil shit).

It's an illusion. They're all on the same side; even the ones that don't realize it. Both sides are shit. The few genuine good people on both sides are just used for face and to waste the energy of people willing to work to change things while the rest of us just sit around and whine how bad the dems or reps are.

This is why democrats barely put any work or funding into down ballot. They just want the face of the country to appear like a good person so we all feel comfortable. They don't care to fight for majority control so that their votes actually matter because they don't WANT their votes to actually matter. They want the same things as the republicans while appearing to vote against those interests because their votes don't actually matter.

Right, because the Republicans clearly love Obamacare!

There's a difference between acting like a regular human and acting like a petulant child. Most of his tweets amount to attacks, whining, and bragging. That's not appropriate for someone who is supposed to be representing an entire country.

I agree with your points. But you realize that just because you found some similarities, doesn't mean there are no differences.

• Both Cats and Dogs have eyes

• Both Cats and Dogs have a nose

• Both Cats and Dogs are furry

Can you claim that cats are the same as dogs? Of course not. Pointing similarities doesn't nothing be demoralized people.

There are good politicians. * Bernie Sanders wants to end prohibition * Bernie Sanders wants audit the Federal Reserve * Bernie Sanders wants to end illegal wiretapping * Bernie Sanders blames the banks

See how that works. I'm not saying Bernie is perfect. But throwing your hand up with the the false equivalency argument does no one any good.

Instead we need to find the Good candidates from the left and the Right. If all Republicans were fiscally conservative, socially liberal like Bill Well, I'd vote (R) down ballot. But their not. So we need to stay active and encourage others to hep fix the broken system.

Agreed. i'll ride this downvote train with you..

Trump twitters liked a spoiled vindictive 14 yr old girl. Ive lost count of how many side splittingly hilarious tweets ive had to verify because i just couldnt believe they werent satire. I enjoy the shit out of trumps twitter addiction. His unintentional hilarity is one of the silver linings of his presidency.

You're right. You'll have to depend on Trump to do maybe 1 or 2 of those things as our first cryptolibertarian president (psst: he's not a republican)

The replier pointed out that incident happened in the 70's, which was a racially charged era in a totally different time.

So racism happening in the 70's isn't racism now? Got it.

but it doesn't at all justify the political divide on the subject.

It explains entirely the political divide on the subject.

Obama did this as he was leaving just to setup Trump and the Republicans so they could paint them like this

Like trashing clean water regulations perhaps?

When you get hired for a job, you're expected to put on a professional face to the public, which means dressing and behaving professionally. People in public-facing professions have been fired for far less than what Trump does on Twitter. You're demanding that we have lower standards for Trump than we'd have for almost anyone else, and you're not doing it because you have some sort of sympathy for him, but because when people criticize him, it makes you feel uncomfortable and upset.

Also check out his other documentary, Century of Self. Its about American individualism and how capitalism created an atmosphere to allow self expression, and how this atmosphere was then exploited.