They should have sprayed that over woodstock. Why terrify a small french town?

testing its use as a non-lethal incapacitating agent for use in warfare

I was joking brother.

I know, just posting for anyone else that wonders why the CIA did this

B-b-but your username...

checks out?

Jokes from NOComedy, haha

<3

Didn't they try using an aerosolized fentanyl analog in a hostage situation and kill a bunch of people?,

If they did, theyre fucking idiots. That stuff can kill you with such small doses, I dont see how they thought it would work well.

Arisolizing no its amounts is how, and has been done effectively. They just failed.

They forget to tell the medics to bring narcan, or so goes the story.

It was a pretty big oversight, how could they fuck that up so badly unless they actually wanted to kill everybody? Why not just use morphine FFS?

I think that was the Russians during the ballet hostage crisis.

Yep you jogged my memory... Man what I would give for a fentanyl inhaler.... That'd be dope. Literally.

Well, you know how it is. You're out at night, looking for kicks, someone's passing around the weaponized hallucinogens...

yeah, russian swat during a hostage crisis in a movie theater. they messed up the dosage and tons of people were killed/injured.

They didn't spray it over Woodstock, they just gave it out for free via agents dressed up as "hippies." Worked quite well apparently.

It also spread people's love all over the world. I think it backfired on them !! So, no. It did not work perfectly for them.

Started up the war on drugs. Which they then supplied and made shitloads of money.

I'm all for spreading consciousness brother. Seeing the invisible bars in this global prison is made available by Psychedelic drugs. I don't give a fuck how much money they made.

Thank you.

Love and Light

Duality forever.

Duality is part of THE ONE !

It also spread people's love all over the world.

[citation needed]

I think it backfired on them !

i think that's a rationalization, so please provide the evidence for your assertion

spread people's love all over the world

I think the term you are looking for is "sexually transmitted disease."

It seems alcoholism is alive and well in the GD and Phish underground.
Yep, no one ever got distracted into idol worship.
The hippies sure showed the CIA by idolizing Trey and Jerry in a much more pronounced manner than expected.

Spiers talks about how the CIA's agenda of sickening minds with LSD was actually a huge backfire, resulting in the loving, hippy movement. Consequently, LSD was portrayed by msm as being absolutely wicked.

Why would the government give out LSD?

Maybe you should read one of the thousands of books, articles, and studies about why the CIA was giving out LSD?

Everyone was already on LSD at woodstock lol

But the effects wear off after 4-9 hours...misting the crowd is a great way to compensate for that!

4-9 hours may not be accurate..

4 is waaaaaay over on the lean side.

4 isn't acid.

I'd believe 8-12 hours.

4 is still on your way there for me.

Yeah dude that might be like your second or third wave. But I tend to trip for a long time on psychedelics

It was for me the first three times

If it only lasted four hours, it wasn't real LSD.

It is. It is called microdosing.

Okay well then you should have clarified that lol. A normal dose will last 9-12 hours.

Real micro dosing is unnoticeable, LSD lasts around 10 hours no matter how much you take....

Not all biological bodies experience the same effect. Depends on stomach content and weight.

Not unlikely you did thaw real LSD, dude. Lots of stuff gets passed off as the real deal, even though it's a but different. Not like you'd know it's some random designer drug when you still trip. If it takes too long to kick in, that's another red flag. I've had stuff take a couple hours & I thought I got ripped off. Definitely wasn't acid, even if I had a fun time and felt like I was on acid.

I know what I experienced. But if you think you know more than I do then I don't know what to say...

You dumb

What a remarkable observation and grammar usage.

LSD doesn't get digested it goes into the bloodstream to the brain and spine, besides no matter how much you take real LSD will last about 10 hours

Source on LSD going to the spine? 99% sure that's an ollld myth

Considering the spine is the main connection to the brain for everything, I'm pretty sure acid flows through your blood between the brain and spine

LSD has nothing to do with your spine at all. Would you say every drug goes to your brain through your spine? LSD acts as all drugs do.

I've read that the only trace of lsd left after a trip is stored in your spinal fluid or some shit. And that there's been reports of people cracking their backs and having flashbacks.

Yeah, all fake shit. Nothing like this happens, and LSD isn't stored in your body in any way. In fact, LSD is not detectable in your blood drug tests even before the effects end. It can't be traced 8 hours after ingestion because it's so small portion of it, and most of it metabolises, and then goes out of your body within 2-3 days.

Yup just looked it up and you right it metabolizes hours after you peak

That is not how that works

It goes through the blood brain barrier is what you are trying to say.

8 hours to the end of your last peak, 10 hours of comedown and lucidity, followed by 4-6 hours of struggling to sleep.

You can definitely notice a microdose. It can last up to 10 hours even longer, but 4 is not unheard of especially if you have a tolerance or a skimpy dose. Source am tripping rn.

Someone doesn't know what microdosing is.

Guys, the fact LSD lasts 4 hours is not true, but its noticeable mental effects at microdosing ranges can actually last this long. The residue body stimulation will definetly last longer, but the mental aspect of it actually can last shorter durations. Anyways, there are things that come to play such as tolerance and the dose of course.

Thank you

More like 6-14 hours

A good trip doesn't even really start getting good until 4 hours in lol

more like 12+, they increased the time of woodstock to compensate instead

Try 12 or more.

Lsd lasts longer than that. 12 hours is pretty normal.

24 hours for the lucky few who get family acid. And yes, it still exists.

I'm beat after 14. I don't know if I'd like 24.

I'm with you there, but when one tab = 24hrs then you most certainly know that the quality is really ridiculously good. The come up took about 3-4hrs to peak but the peak itself lasted 12 hours. Was still able to turn my bathroom floor into a sea of crawling ants around the 22-24hr mark.

Lol :D

Sounds more like that's when you know you're taking something other than acid. It doesn't matter who made it, LSD follows rules just like other chemicals.

Sure, that's definitely possible and my information is only as good as the people I receive it from - you truly never know what you're getting. On the other hand, I've done enough L to know what's needlepoint, what hasn't been fully synthesized, what's dirty and what feels very clean. If someone wants to correct me, L isn't clean if your taste buds sense something metallic or bitter within 5 minutes. To me, good L brings a very pleasant warm sensation where your mind is somewhat isolated from your surroundings in a bubble yet your body melts into a profound connection to everything around you. Granted, it's been almost a year since my last experience but there was a good 4-month stretch where I did liquid drops several times a week.

I didn't down-vote you. I rarely up-vote or down-vote anyone. So fuck your assumptions. Just trying to clear some misinformation.

I downvoted you for your moronic edit.

Gone now, what'd he say?

I'll give /u/tommy-ftilas the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a brief outlash. Maybe they had a bad day. Anyway it's not worth recreating.

If you trip for 24 hours or more you're taking DOx, not LSD. LSD lasts from 10-14 hours, depending on dose.

We have a winner

Lsd lasts longer the higher the dose. You could trip for days if you took enough

Masochist doses of LSD (in the milligram range, usually an accidental dosing) are the only time a trip will last longer than 12 hours of defined effects. I've heard of people tripping for 3 days on 20 hits of acid and such. But from what I know by 18 hours in you're pretty well used to it and it won't really have the same effects. But those first 6-8 hours are going to be a ride, friend.

There's cases of people mistaking crystal LSD for cocaine and snorting up to 100mg. They were fine after 12 hours.

I imagine they immediately thought "oh fuck" and then plopped over comatose at that point.

Pretty much. They went to the hospital with some mildly serious side effects, but there were no fatalities.

Depending on the dose

I thumbprinted once. Was trippin balls for a week.

Thumbprints aren't a thing, lol.

Why did you thumbprint?

Because it was there.

Gaaahhhh. I love that! Sitting on the toilet after a long night, trying to make the uncomfortable wrench in my stomach go away, I stare blankly at the floors and walls while allowing my peripheral vision to enter my focus...

Yup, still tripping.

Yep! That too. When you focus on a white wall and a fractalized orb begins to form. When at home, laying in bed and staring at my eggshell ceiling will help bring the trip up more quickly.

No, when one tab = 24 hours, you're not getting LSD, you're getting DOx research chemicals.

You don't see crawling ants on LSD and it CERTAINLY doesn't last 24 hours. You either got DOx, or you're lying.

Or you don't know what you're talking about.

I've done acid. I did it last week. I've done HEROIC doses. The floor will warp and shift, but you DONT see things that aren't there.

He's not saying that he's seeing ants, he's talking about pattern repition and warping on a hardwood floor that looks like ants marching

He said "sea of swarming ants"

LSD doesn't do that.

It's a metaphor for the patterns he saw. . .

In the late 80s, I took MDMA and then as that was winding down, decided to drop acid to see what would happen.

I definitely saw shit in carpet and patterned wallpaper. All I wanted to do was sleep, but I couldn't stop watching the lions chasing each other around through the wallpaper.

Drugs sound scary man. I hate ants

Just found some, blown away it's still available

Now you have me wishing I had some but then I think about the quote "the purpose of psychedelics is to open doors but once those doors are open, do you still need to open them further?" In your case, I say yes. Enjoy it while you can.

I'd suggest that sometimes over the years the doors can start to close a bit and maybe reopening them every once in awhile is a net positive.

That is some good insight, especially when you see how the world changes, or sometimes, we our selves change in ways that could use a gentle reminder to help remove the blinders that reappear time to time.

24 hours is extreme. You might get another solid peak at 8 hours, but 24 is just not going to happen with true LSD.

The only drug I've ever known to last longer than 18 hours in that category (outside of some very new RCs) is DOI.

Peak lasted 10-12 hours. Last 8 hours was pretty subtle. When I say 24hrs total, I mean for any lingering effects to be completely gone and the L no longer around. So in essence, those last 8 hours I had visuals that were pretty mellow where objects had that very faint melting appearance.

I'm all for being corrected here, so if what I described above is not really a 24hr trip, I'll take it back. Not trying to dick wave here but want to be accurate.

It depends on what your definition of a trip is. If your definition of trip is when you stop peaking, then acid lasts 6-8 hours. If your definition is through the effects and afterglow, that could be 20 hours.

Good to know that distinction.

24 hours after I took it my deck was still changing colors. I took like 30 so that kinda of explains it, but still, it can last that long.

My first time I was 15 hours in before falling asleep. It was great.

you got ripped off bro

Here in NZ all we can get now takes an hourish to kick in 90 minutes to peak and lasts about 3-4 hours if your lucky, we're getting ripped off.

Sounds like someone's been giving you research chems and calling LSD if it's wearing off after 4 hours.

LSD typically lasts from 8-12 hours. My last trip was over 14 hours

Was it of the pink elephant variety? Shit last forever

Not sure of the type. Your referring to the blotter paper which may be different than the compound or the amount on the tab

It also isn't as effective if you don't wait before taking another dose.

Someone's never done LSD.

4-9 hours is a hell of a range.

lsd man.. so fun

Yeah but the brown acid was bad trip man

Check out Max Spiers on Youtube. Dude awakened and was eventually murdered for speaking the truth. He goes on to say, in one video, that LSD can either open your 3rd eye and allow you to glimpse into the truth of who you really are and what reality really is, or it can go the other route and cause massive, often long-lasting turmoil.

Spiers insists that we exist in a more 'magical' reality than we can imagine. He states that Earth has been over run by a sort of vampiric consciousness, which has no ability to create in the 3d realm, and in order to make what they want, they must leech humans' energy. They do this by keeping us in fear. When we are in fear, we release fearful energy. This shit, according to Spiers, can be harvested. Can you imagine the amount of powerful, fear-induced energy an entire town would give off if it suddenly, and without warning, fell into a state of LSD-induced inebriation? People must have lost their damn minds. Little did they know, their fear was being harvested and certain sick 'beings' were likely laughing at their suffering.

I cannot prove that Spiers is wrong. But almost everything he says seems so true. He has opened my eyes to the world we actually live in, and he has convinced me to make more of an effort to let go of all suffering, all fear, and to enjoy this moment. Peace, love, and compassion over all else.

vampiric consciousness

Archons

Really...

Bruh. Acknowledge that you, for your entire life, have believed you are your thoughts. Recount your life and see that. And see that, fundamentally, none of what you 'think' you are is true. And it never has been. We are living in an era where humanity believes it is an ego. This is the era of amnesia. Reality is more 'fairytale' and 'spooky' than we can imagine.

The only reason we are, supposedly, the only animal that can really think on this planet is because evolution proved that this was more beneficial of a survival tactic. We aren't our thoughts, though who can really say what consciousness really is? We are animals and we live then we die, just like everything else.

We are absolutely nothing. No thing. All we see and know is imagination. The manifestation of thought. Love came alive.

At this point we are talking philosophy and what it even means to be alive. I feel like the day we come in contact with extraterrestrial intelligent life is the day we can start to truly understand what consciousness is. Perhaps we perceive reality in a vastly different way than another organism. Who knows!

I'm not talking philosophy. When you understand you are not your thoughts, the mind recognizes that is it not actually you. You are the awareness in which thoughts become. That awareness is you, which is also no thing.

so like monsters inc?

Lmao, yeah, I guess. I think I've actually heard that before by someone who was MK-Ultra'd, sort of in a joking way

Hidden in plain sight? -_-

Ding ding ding.

I cannot prove that Spiers is correct.

okay, it's nice that you admit that.

But almost everything he says seems so true.

oh it seems true. well, it might as well be true then, huh?

What? I don't mean to be forcing my understandings on anyone, if that's what you're suggesting I did.

Use your own intuition as guidance for what is true and what isn't. Don't put your will on others, but offer what you feel is true to others. No combat, purely consensual sharing of knowledge.

the search for truth is a battleground of competing ideas. evidence is the weaponry with which this battle is fought.

using intuition as your primary (or perhaps only) means of understanding the world is like using a blade of grass in place of a sword. it has no clout. it inherently loses without accepting defeat.

it is our duty to rigorously test ideas and pit them against each other in the aforementioned battlefield, to the best of our abilities. otherwise, how would we know what was true and what wasn't?

Sometimes there is not readily profitable evidence to fight a particular battle. In the case of enlightenment, opening of the 3rd eye, and vision quests, the only evidence is that which you find within. The qualia becomes all the evidence an individual needs. The only problem there is that others, require evidence, since they may not have experienced the same qualia.

the only evidence is that which you find within

i.e. no evidence? intuition is not evidence, nor are subjective experiences. "i just know deep down in my heart that what i saw was real" is not meaningful evidence.

The qualia becomes all the evidence an individual needs.

only for individuals that require no evidence. i could experience a load of stuff on psychedelics, but i have the sense to realize the differentiation between what is real and imagined in the aftermath.

what exactly determines whether or not someone experiences an "opening of the 3rd eye"? what does this even entail? if you randomly gave 100 people LSD and none of them had this experience, what would your rationalization of this result be?

Try finding evidence to prove the beauty of a sunset. That's what I mean.

that does nothing to clarify your position; that's a false equivalency and you know it. the beauty someone finds in a sunset is a subjective experience of a real thing that exists in the universe. here's a more accurate analogy:

person A: "man, i'm so overwhelmed by the beauty of the symphony i'm hearing in my mind's ear."

person B: "wow, that sounds intriguing. could you write it down so i could hear it?"

person A: "oh, no, i can't because i don't know enough about music."

person B: "really? you can't even sing the main melody from it?"

person A: "no, uh, it's a totally subjective experience so it's completely impossible for me to share it with you in any way. you'll just have to experience it for yourself someday."

We may in fact be beating around the same bush my friend. There are some things that exist within this universe that are intangible, such as your mind and body being connected through as of yet still inexplicable means. You can break down emotions into biochemical reactions and synergistic effects of the bodies myriad systems, but you still can't explain or provide evidence of the mind itself. The interface between the mind and body is something intangible and as of yet there is no tangible evidence of anything in regards to that. It's simply a given that we exist, but it's simply to tough a case for science to crack, as of yet. And I don't much like your analogy to be honest, it's quite random and beside the point I'm attempting to make here. Subjective experiences are still real experiences. In fact, on a very real level, they are the only types of experience you will ever have, hence qualia. You realize that explaining/defining qualia through the scientific method would be one of the paramount achievements in all of scientific history, right?

your mind is your body. the brain, spinal cord, and nerves are all physical objects that we can monitor. your psyche, our existence, and the sun are not comparable to the "opening of the 3rd eye" because the former are all phenomena that every living being experiences in some way on a daily basis. while we may not have evidence that aptly describes thoughts, we know that people have them. on the other hand, we have no evidence for "vampiric creatures/spirits," and only a very small subset of people experience them. are you beginning to glean the issue here?

just because we are limited by our own subjective experience of the universe doesn't mean that we should completely abandon the value of objective truths. it certainly doesn't mean that i can use it as an excuse to believe literally whatever i want and expect not to be ridiculed by anyone who is interested in legitimately criticizing my claims.

What would you be if you had absolutely no beliefs, though? For the rest of your life, let's say, you held no beliefs. What, then, would you be? Who would you be? Thought is always a reference to a point in time that is not now. So, without a belief in who you are, what would you, then, be?

Man, I can tell you are brilliant, and I am hopeful you pursue these questions because I would be absolutely thrilled to fire thoughts back-and-forth.

i would be nothing. an emptiness, a void, a hole. i have experienced ego death and that is what i was: nothing.

I wouldn't view it as a battleground of competing ideas. That's an awfully negative way to view it. The search for truth is a cooperative effort of ideas. Viewing it as a battleground almost encourages the notion that your own ideas are right and that you should fight others to prove yourself, but put that arrogance aside and consider that we, as individuals, really don't know much. It's certainly worth it to share your ideas openly, but it's important to not force your ideas upon others, and to be prepared both for criticism, and to even change your own concepts and ideas you currently believe should new information find its way to you that disagrees with your own.

a battleground of ideas wielding evidence, not people wielding ideas. ideas don't have the capacity to be arrogant.

it is only when ideas are rigorously tested that the truth behind them can be revealed. i certainly don't condone arrogance, and i accept the limitations of the human mind in the context of the collective knowledge of society.

Those evidences must also be supported and shown to be true by further evidence.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regress_argument

I wouldn't view it as a battleground of competing ideas. That's an awfully negative way to view it. The search for truth is a cooperative effort of ideas.

The search for truth is a cooperative effort of discerning true ideas from wrong ideas, evidence is the sword that cuts away the wrong ones.

Please don't go around spreading this belief. Forget ego and you might just discover that all truth exists within. It's in our DNA. Being scientific and comparing data to discover truth is great. But I got chills, bad chills, reading a suggestion that going within to find truth is wasteful.

which is more egotistical, believing that truth is a construct of our individual experience or something that truly exists, that we then experience?

i got chills, bad chills, seeing someone seriously spout the belief that "Earth has been over run by a sort of vampiric consciousness," openly admit that they have absolutely no evidence to support their claim, but use the excuse that "all truth exists within." give me a break, dude.

Have no problem giving you a long break.

I suggested people watch a video, to begin with. I didn't throw my beliefs in your face. And all truth does exist within -- if you cannot understand that, I wish you luck on your journey.

Have no problem giving you a long break.

sorry i was unclear: i was being sarcastic when i said i got bad chills, though i can't deny it was unnerving in some sense of the word.

I didn't throw my beliefs in your face.

i didn't say that you had. what can i say: when people make outrageous, nonsensical claims with no reason to believe them, i feel a duty to criticize their claims.

if you cannot understand that, I wish you luck on your journey.

this is what i mean by being inherently condescending. anyone who meaningfully disagrees with you and asks you to prove your claims just "cannot understand."

Do you disagree that we live, collectively, in a state of amnesia? Do you disagree that the majority of humanity believes it is its own thoughts? Do you disagree that believing we are our own thoughts has prevented us from becoming who we really are? That's what I believe, or, rather, know. I know that we are living in amnesia, generally speaking, and I discovered that before I discovered Max Spiers.

Max Spiers was the first person I heard suggest that the world was being run, in large part, by child rapists. Then we discovered the pizzagate tunnel. More importantly, he's the first in my experience to say that the collective is living with amnesia, in that we have no idea who we are, which is preventing us from discovering what's really going on in the world.

The mind has grown fond of finding joy through things, believing concepts, getting caught in certain thought prisons. These thought structures are keeping us in a world of separation, rather than a world of oneness in which we see, experientially, that everything is you. I know this. Not because I am better than, but because my particular experience lead me down a certain journey where I absolutely had to go within to discover who I am, before I made the ill-advised decision to take my own life.

I have also said, a few times now, that I cannot prove anything Max says. Everything related to ego death is something, as you must know, is something one has to experience in one's own reality. All one can receive from another, in that regard, is guidance. Nothing else.

But in knowing that he, too, recognizes the state of amnesia which clouds the minds of almost all of humanity, I was open to hearing his beliefs. Hearing that he'd been MK-ultra'd and somehow survived provided me with the belief that he might have 'secretive' knowledge from the deep interior of tptb. And in knowing that the story always goes deeper, I was hugely intrigued by his story. But, again, I never said I could prove any of it, and you continue asking for definitive, explicit proof. I can help you see that you do not exist the way you think you do, which might open up your mind to the idea that reality is being controlled by things we have trouble fathoming, or it might not. Ultimately, the entire thing is just entertainment.

The claims I make are outrageous to you, to the collective. But to me, they are intimate and true. I do my best to explain that which cannot be explained, and I like to think I do a decent job. But, in truth, I cannot prove anything.

You can, officially, have all my up votes.

My homie. Good vibes to you, always.

Do you disagree that we live, collectively, in a state of amnesia? Do you disagree that the majority of humanity believes it is its own thoughts? Do you disagree that believing we are our own thoughts has prevented us from becoming who we really are?

we live in many states of amnesia, foremost of which is that people have forgotten who they are: nothing more than pounds of flesh whose instinctual tendencies are oftentimes in conflict with the civilizations in which they live. i'm certainly not buying that people have just forgotten that they're..."not thoughts," or whatever it is that you're proposing. when you can provide no evidence - not even a clear explanation of your belief - why would i?

The claims I make are outrageous to you, to the collective. But to me, they are intimate and true.

they're not true, unfortunately that's not how truth works. the pure subjectivity of your experience is not a reason to believe that truth, but rather a reason to second-guess it. if i were you, not being able to "prove anything" would raise up major red flags in my train of thought: "oh, i can't prove any of this? hm, maybe i'm not on the right track..."

This discussion will go on endlessly.

The awakened state is the state in which no beliefs exist. Belief-less. How can I prove that I have no beliefs? That I am no beliefs? How does one prove that? Does it not seem ironic that enlightenment, the state we all, deep down, long for, is the one state that gurus will always insist, "...is not something I can ever show you or give you. Rather, it is something I can guide you towards"?

The truth cannot be explained, and that's why it hasn't been put into a simple paragraph and emailed to all of humanity. It's something that has to be experienced subjectively to be understood and known. It is not something that one can receive from another; only guidance.

I cannot prove my truth because my truth is inherently description-less. All ultimate truths are. The ultimate truth is just what is, with no knowing of it.

This discussion will go on endlessly.

i think this would be true for any discussion that included someone repeatedly saying, "i have no proof, just trust me, man. no, really, just trust me."

How can I prove that I have no beliefs? That I am no beliefs? How does one prove that?

i mean, i don't know. i don't hold those beliefs. i'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and try, but personally it seems like you're either lying or using your imagination to forego reality.

enlightenment, the state we all, deep down, long for,

i don't long for enlightenment, i long to be alive!

The truth cannot be explained, and that's why it hasn't been put into a simple paragraph and emailed to all of humanity.

truth is often explained in words. just because truth is often complicated doesn't mean that it's unexplainable and description-less. a description-less truth is not truth.

No! The truth is absolutely, unequivocally ineffable. Words can guide one to the truth of being, but it cannot be explained.

Alan Watts -- “There is no such thing as ‘the truth’ that can be stated. In other words, ask the question: ‘What is the true position of the stars in the Big Dipper?’ Well it depends on where you’re looking at them from.”

I'll leave it there. To each his own.

well the nice ladies that give me pamphlets on how their 240902 buddies are going to heaven while me and everyone I've ever know are going to hell, they seem so honest, and nice, why would they lie?

oh it seems true. well, it might as well be true then, huh?

It's the best you can hope for, when you discuss such secret programs.

By design, they even use strategies like "withholding of information from senior officials in order to protect them from repercussions in the event that illegal or unpopular activities by the CIA became public knowledge" --- meaning that upper management in the CIA won't even know the truth.

well, why tell high brass about a vampiric consciousness when they are a vampiric consciousness, right?

And we need to stop flying United

All that sounds like a bunch of gibberish from a guy high on drugs, frankly.

I promise it's not. I'm actually pretty smart. I've done drugs, suffered a lot, done a ton of research on the nature of reality (both within and without), and use common sense (aka, intuition).

Honestly, once you recognize that you do not exist as your ego, or your thoughts, you start to question reality and it becomes shockingly easy to believe someone like Max Spiers. Almost all of humanity believes it is its own thoughts. That's an illusion. Reality goes much, much deeper.

done a ton of research on the nature of reality

LOL, in other words, "I've done a TON of drugs."

What?

Don't forget his intro to philosophy class and the two videos on YouTube he watched while dosed. He'll probably grow out of it in a few years.

He'll probably grow out of it in a few years.

Not if he keeps taking all the drug he won't. If I had a dollar for every old burnt out hippie thinking he's "profound" because he took drugs I'd be Bill Gates.

So there's 87 billion burnt out hippies in the world? Or do you already have 86+ billion dollars?

Lol, sigh.

What did I say that suggests that I think I am profound? It really does scare me how deeply people project their own selves onto others.

The message I am ultimately spreading is of oneness, of love. My message is of forgetting the ego, forgetting the 'me', forgetting separation. And you go on to desperately make jokes that make no sense, only because you are, likely, insecure and enjoy, too much, getting high fives from other insecure teammates.

I said I'd done drugs, not that I'd done them regularly. You make assumptions, project insecurities, and make claims about things you don't even know. Reading this, you'll probably realize you were wrong and will probably make some troll-like joke to dissipate the impending sense of guilt. Unless you have no compassion, in which case you are hopeless.

Regardless, I know you are smart, somewhere deep in there. You should just focus your time on forgetting your beliefs of your self. That'll open your mind and reality to existing with less judgments and nonsensical assumptions.

What did I say that suggests that I think I am profound?

The message I am ultimately spreading is of oneness, of love.

Oh god not this hippie shit again. Go take a bath.

Absolutely hopeless. Take care.

I urge you to get help for your drug problem.

So many ad hominem attacks going on here. Really missing the point of what he is attempting to say.

I totally get u man. Your whole viewpoint you described. I view it rather similarly. Keep doing what you're doing ^{^} I too intuit we're on the right path.

Thanks, man. Really appreciate it. Much love.

What a knee slapper, man. Loved it.

Also, open your mind. I can feel the density of your thoughts, brother. Honestly, LSD might change your life -- the way you observe and feel -- if you do it for the right reasons.

Lol. You sound like me when I was 18-19 (Except for your delusion of a monster king).

I've tripped a considerable amount, with high quality acid, with plenty of doses above 800 mics.

There's no such thing as tripping for the "right reasons." I've used it in congruence of other drugs, I've used it for introspection, I've used it to party, and I've used for "fuck it, I'm not doing anything tonight."

You probably think people who have scary trips are just feeble minded and you feel superior to people who don't do drugs, even though they don't even have a second thought about you.

You probably think you've unlocked the secrets of the universe and have a hard on for Alan Watts, (Though, admittedly, he is fucking awesome) and you probably spout pseudo Tao and Soto Zen Buddhist teachings without having actually ever read any of the old manuscripts.

You remind me of when I was younger and a lot of people I knew, but, surprise! We grew out of it. We trip every once in a while and laugh at how silly we were. The ones who didn't grow up are just wasting away and being a burden to those around them.

Hopefully, when you get a little bit older, you'll realize the same.

Either that, or you're schizophrenic, which in that case, you probably shouldn't be taking LSD (Usually).

You are making outrageous assumptions. A monster king? What? As above, so below. I don't see why it's that unbelievable to think the rabbit hole extends deeper, and also runs in line with movies the entertainment industry has cleverly thrown in our faces for decades.

I don't think I've unlocked the secrets of anything. As a matter of fact, the only thing I know I know is that I know absolutely nothing. You're making it sound as though I'm some schizophrenic druggie in order to delegitimize any claim I've made. That's unfair and egotistical. Then you classically end with the, "you'll grow up one day." Thanks, dad.

I don't think you've gone deep enough. But to each his own.

Lol I totally spotted me in those words: alan watts, tao etc. But I'm not sure why everyone should grow up from it. The world view presented makes sense to me and would probably stay with me.

You should grow up and get a 9-5 job, a mcmansion, a pug, do brunches - like everyone else, duh

I mean, that's nice to think about, but that just sounds like something religion does. "There's more to this life, there has to be." While it's interesting to think about the realities of our world when on drugs, once you're sober, you realize that this is it. The drug you took simply change how your brain interacts with other parts of itself, thus making your thought process different.

"I think therefore I am." is a pretty well known statement because it's essentially one of the first things we can prove about ourselves. Reality may be a lot more intricate than we currently know of, though science will have the answer to that eventually. But in the end, we die and that is the end of our experience in this reality.

As a counter to your saying that "while it's interesting to think about the realities of our world when on drugs, once you're sober you realise this is it." I'd like to ask you this: what do you think of zen Buddhist monks, Hindu yogis and gurus and other spiritual teachers when they spend much of their lives sitting in mediation - sober - and come to pretty much exactly the same conclusions?

They're fucking idiots if they came to that conclusion. Can you source any of those people talking about vampiric consciousness that harvests fear energy?

You're taking two different points and mixing them up to spread disinfo. Look up Neem Karoli Baba, Ram Dass, Krishna Dass, Bhagwan Dass, The Buddha, Dalai Lama, Lama Yeshe, Henepola Gunaratana. That should be plenty to go off I believe.

Which two different points am I mixing up?

I think Zen, Buddhism(the one without a god), Confucianism, and Daoism all have very interesting beliefs that I find are more true than other religions. I find the idea that we are nothing and when we die we return to nothing to be a comforting thought sometimes.

But that's more of the philosophy of theirs that I like. A way to live. I'm a man of science, and as such, any belief that is on the basis of the thoughts of man (fallible) are not strong beliefs. Any belief you get about the realities of our world that come from meditating or doing drugs have no basis in reality, for those are just the thoughts of man.

I try to keep my thoughts on reality tied to facts found from the scientific method and statistics backed by data with large sample sizes as well as peer reviewed publishings.

Fair enough. I completely understand that and that's absolutely valid reasoning. This life is what is happening now, and that's all we can really know. Unless you die and come back... But I haven't, so therefore I don't know. My belief in "God" is just that - a belief - but I've come to be comfortable with saying that to people based on my own experiences up to this point. But anyway it's like you say, if you're in the same boat as most people on earth of not having died, then it's actually most sensible to live like that. Life's life. We all live it. I hope yours is lovely and positive!

Cheers friend!

The freedom comes when you start asking the right questions: who doesn't know? What is it that you are, actually? Question that honestly, and you might find that you don't actually exist and that you developed a 'you', or a center in consciousness/awareness, through memories of being told who you are, or memories where you felt great joy and which led you to think that you must be the person who did the thing that brought the joy. Right? Nah. You do not exist as a thought. The mind cannot know you, fundamentally. Thoughts developed by observing the world, the words we were given, the things others tell us are important, and so on. That creates a center through which we perceive all things. That thing gets triggered, feels suffering, holds beliefs, maintains pride in and of itself, and so on. But none of it is real. What's real is what lies beneath that. The thing in which all of your thoughts is happening is you. But, unfortunately, that's hard to conclude because the mind, particularly nowadays, chatters incessantly and we end up being swooped away by our thoughts, leaving us incapable of recognizing the truth that silently sits behind all thoughts, observing your entire lifetime. That thing is you, and it is God, or consciousness, or every thing. Sorry, this can be really hard to explain, so I apologize if I drove you nuts. Just trying to help guide to what I know is true within you.

God does exist, and it is you, me, and all things. You can experience that too, once you recognize that you are not your thoughts. Once that is known, you might experience a life of perpetual peace and awe.

A little tip: you know that feeling you get when you see a gorgeous sunset? Why do you feel that awe? You feel that awe because the mind, the judger within you, dissipates into nothingness. You forget yourself and you become this moment, which is what you really are. No longer are you comparing that moment to any other moment, because thought takes a break. Well, there's a way of becoming the moment perpetually, which is ironically also the process of becoming who you really are.

:)

Spot on, nicely said:)

I have no more to add, you said it better than I could have! :) "self" is an illusion based on experience, God is everything, and that's all beautiful in its own way. Amen, dude!

<3

How can you return to what you are.

I just left this message for someone else and figured you might enjoy reading it. It is related to becoming, once again, who and what you really are. I don't mean to put my beliefs on you, but I can promise that this is the truth.

The freedom comes when you start asking the right questions: who doesn't know? What is it that you are, actually? Question that honestly, and you might find that you don't actually exist and that you developed a 'you', or a center in consciousness/awareness, through memories of being told who you are, or memories where you felt great joy and which led you to think that you must be the person who did the thing that brought the joy. Right? Nah. You do not exist as a thought. The mind cannot know you, fundamentally. Thoughts developed by observing the world, the words we were given, the things others tell us are important, and so on. That creates a center through which we perceive all things. That thing gets triggered, feels suffering, holds beliefs, maintains pride in and of itself, and so on. But none of it is real. What's real is what lies beneath that. The thing in which all of your thoughts is happening is you. But, unfortunately, that's hard to conclude because the mind, particularly nowadays, chatters incessantly and we end up being swooped away by our thoughts, leaving us incapable of recognizing the truth that silently sits behind all thoughts, observing your entire lifetime. That thing is you, and it is God, or consciousness, or every thing. Sorry, this can be really hard to explain, so I apologize if I drove you nuts. Just trying to help guide to what I know is true within you.

God does exist, and it is you, me, and all things. You can experience that too, once you recognize that you are not your thoughts. Once that is known, you might experience a life of perpetual peace and awe.

A little tip: you know that feeling you get when you see a gorgeous sunset? Why do you feel that awe? You feel that awe because the mind, the judger within you, dissipates into nothingness. You forget yourself and you become this moment, which is what you really are. No longer are you comparing that moment to any other moment, because thought takes a break. Well, there's a way of becoming the moment perpetually, which is ironically also the process of becoming who you really are.

I think calling that God does a disservice to the beauty of what it is. It is self, and god is irrelevant. We're all energy after all.

I don't disagree. But I try to write it in a way that is, in some way, relatable to others; particularly people who have yet to acknowledge this profound truth.

Yeah my later thought was that I was just arguing semantics on a scale so irrelevant it was laughable. We're on the same page.

I also consider myself man of science as well as many other things but thinking scientific method is infallible or somehow less fallible than other honest inquiries into the nature of reality/truth does not hold under closer inspection. I hope you will approach this topic with that of scientific skepticism. I'll leave these here:

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/induction-problem/ https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/skepticism/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_positivism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cogito_ergo_sum#Criticisms https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demarcation_problem

They put themselves in a state of mind that isn't too different to that of a person on shrooms.

"I think, therefore I am" is not a good thing to believe.

As a matter of fact, no beliefs are, ultimately, useful. I took drugs because I had the sober realization, while incredibly depressed, that my entire depression came from a belief. I believed that I was a hopeless person. Yet, deep down, I knew that I was a promising, loving individual who could survive just fine and add value to this world.

But, how could I know I am one thing (a depressed 'me'), while attempting to become the 'me' that I know I really am? That lead to an existential crisis, and the drugs aided me in opening my mind to truly understand what the hell my mind was realizing.

The thing that 'thinks' it exists isn't actually you. What you are lies beyond thought. Thought happens within your awareness of it; have you ever noticed? What each of us truly is is awareness. That awareness, or consciousness, is God. It is all things, but it is also nothing. No thing. Our ego thinks, therefore our ego is. But that isn't actually you. There is more. Just as the rabbit hole goes deeper out in the world, so too does it go deeper with you. As above, so below.

There is a God, and it is you, and me, and the universe. There is no separation. That separation is an illusion, which manifests when you believe you are your thoughts. Believing you are your thoughts creates the ego, through which we then see all of life. It's why we suffer, it's why we hate, it's why we fight, and it's what prevents us from making this world the thing we really want it to be. That's just my take, though.

As a matter of fact, no beliefs are, ultimately, useful.

Including that one?

Yes.

What have been the most important texts to you in gaining this understanding about a God?

Sorry! Forgot to reply, was on the go when I read this.

I haven't read much, in truth. I'm a musician, so sound is my thing. I've listened to probably over 500 lectures/audio recordings by Alan Watts and Adyashanti over the past year. Those two changed my life and opened my mind, allowing me to begin the process of becoming the real me. I'll leave you a few that really, really helped me. In terms of books, though:

https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Insecurity-Message-Age-Anxiety/dp/0307741206/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_0?_encoding=UTF8&amp;psc=1&amp;refRID=HD4HJV4XGZMFYQQ8YHYY

https://www.amazon.com/Become-What-You-Alan-Watts/dp/1570629404/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_14_t_1?_encoding=UTF8&amp;psc=1&amp;refRID=HD4HJV4XGZMFYQQ8YHYY

https://www.amazon.com/True-Meditation-Discover-Freedom-Awareness/dp/1591794676/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1493318617&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=adyashanti+true+meditation

https://www.amazon.com/End-Your-World-Uncensored-Enlightenment/dp/1591797799/ref=pd_sim_14_4?_encoding=UTF8&amp;pd_rd_i=1591797799&amp;pd_rd_r=NTAKM081ZBWQN84XRDF5&amp;pd_rd_w=GbrQB&amp;pd_rd_wg=4ikC1&amp;psc=1&amp;refRID=NTAKM081ZBWQN84XRDF5

https://www.amazon.com/Power-Now-Guide-Spiritual-Enlightenment/dp/1577314808/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1493318650&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=eckhart+tolle+the+power+of+now

http://www.lawofone.info/

Now, below I will list a few audio recordings that I absolutely love:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZ4_75nT6_M

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om1hJX4JN8U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESVoQzOhZNQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbbCkdrAdeI

/r/iamverysmart

Was rummaging my overview to link you this thread I stumbled upon about a month ago, then realized the username.. lol..

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5zv1my/does_anyone_else_think_this_might_actually_be/

Yeah, I think you and everyone with in serious insight about the topic is on the money. Even have my experience on there with the sim and the vampiric consciousness (archons). Shit gets waaaay to real under psilocybin :S

Lmao, my man. Forgot I'd written that!

I got a date with psilocybin this weekend, man. So pumped. But might avoid bringing archons into the mind this time around. I did that on LSD. Lotta regret..

Yeah man, might be for the best. Was a lot to handle, just enjoy that good head space and trip brotha

Aaaand that exactly how MSM engineered you to think about abstract concepts such as this. Have fun suckling big brothers tit

Lol okay...

Do you know what you actually are?

I do. I'm the guy who doesn't believe in the invisible boogie monster harvesting my emotions. You must be the other guy.

Nice.

It's funny to me that, here we are, sitting on the edge of our seats because we all believe in a deep state that pulls the strings behind our reality, and which will kill millions of innocent people for its own gain. But if one suggests the rabbit hole might go deeper, one is mocked. Lol. But it goes deeper. You'll see that once you recognize the illusion you're living as (ego/thought). Oh, and I'm not 'the other guy'. As a matter of fact, there is no 'other than' you. I am you, and you are me :) good luck on the journey

You make me want to do LSD.

Haha do it for the right reasons!

If I ever do it will be for the mind altering experiences your talking about. I just worry about the quality if I tried any. I don't want to ruin my brain taking some junk.

Yeah, man. You're smart to do it for certain reasons and to not just throw the acid on your tongue with a 'fuck it' mentality.

I suggest getting into meditation, if you haven't already, in order to develop mindfulness. By becoming mindful, you can enter into a very peaceful state. And it's in that state, where you feel a sort of 'oneness' with everything, that the mind or consciousness will really start gifting you with certain intuitive realizations.

The first time I ever took LSD, I listened to a podcast by Alan Watts. For the first time, I could understand everything he was saying in a genuine fashion. I attribute my ability to accurately feel what he was saying to the LSD, because it opened my mind, meaning my ego dissipated and I no longer listened to anything as a 'me' (a 'me' is really just a remembered set of beliefs).

In other words, if you meditate enough and are able to enter into that state of -- I know it sounds weird to put it this way -- not having a 'me', or not being interrupted by your impulsive and incessant thoughts (which disagree, or close your mind when you think something doesn't run true to what you've been told in the past), and pair it with LSD, it can honestly warp your world into something more real than you can ever imagine.

Deep within us all is a child. Eventually, once this game we play outside ourselves comes to an end, there will be massive suffering. That suffering will cause all of humanity to look within. Looking within, we will discover that, for our entire lives, we have believed we are our thoughts. We have believed in separation. We have believed we come into the universe, rather than coming out of the universe. And this realization is where massive, unfathomable change will come. Total oneness. That's the answer, man. Good luck.

<3

You, I like you.

I don't necessarily believe all of that either. I come here because some of the stuff people post is interesting and thought provoking, but your concepts are just too much toward completely insane.

I can elaborate in a PM if you want your mind blown. It might also send you on an existential crisis. But might as well get it over with now, right? :)

Actually I don't believe any of that, I just come here for the LOLs. The problem with your theory is that it's too outlandish. Pretty much everything you've talked about here can more reliably be explained by the general laziness of the human population.

There's a lot more interesting theories to explore that have some basis in scientific facts. For example, have you ever heard about the holographic universe theory? Basically the idea is that we're not actually three-dimensional, but rather we are holographic projections on the 'walls' of the universe. If this is true, then imagine what kind of power true three-dimensional beings would have over you... :-)

If you really want to go on an acid trip, try imagining the universe pushed down a couple dimensions. You're in a large round room. On the walls are lines tracing the existence of simple 3D beings where you can easily see their beginning and end. Looking out across the room you see protrusions like gravity maps defining all of the galaxies or perhaps other universes, and floating in the air around everything are creatures of even higher dimensions.

Well that's not exactly how reality looks, but it's a good starting point for you... :-)

Ah, my friend, a great response! I have plenty to add but am on a treadmill. I know my suggested theory sounds nuts. That's my theory for what's going on outside my own self. But if I speak to you about my journey within, I think you'll appreciate what I have to say. Everything is, in a sense, a hologram. But more importantly, everything is One. Literally. And that can be experienced. Oneness can and will be experienced, eventually, once the suffering reaches a certain point in the world outside us. It's going to drive people inward for answers. I'll send more your way later -- with info that seems less outlandish.

Said I'd leave you more info, and I just left this for another person and it's related to what we discussed, so you might get a kick out of reading my 'beliefs'. Appreciated what you had to say, and it also gave me a kick-ass sober trip considering what you suggested. Be well!

The freedom comes when you start asking the right questions: who doesn't know? What is it that you are, actually? Question that honestly, and you might find that you don't actually exist and that you developed a 'you', or a center in consciousness/awareness, through memories of being told who you are, or memories where you felt great joy and which led you to think that you must be the person who did the thing that brought the joy. Right? Nah. You do not exist as a thought. The mind cannot know you, fundamentally. Thoughts developed by observing the world, the words we were given, the things others tell us are important, and so on. That creates a center through which we perceive all things. That thing gets triggered, feels suffering, holds beliefs, maintains pride in and of itself, and so on. But none of it is real. What's real is what lies beneath that. The thing in which all of your thoughts is happening is you. But, unfortunately, that's hard to conclude because the mind, particularly nowadays, chatters incessantly and we end up being swooped away by our thoughts, leaving us incapable of recognizing the truth that silently sits behind all thoughts, observing your entire lifetime. That thing is you, and it is God, or consciousness, or every thing. Sorry, this can be really hard to explain, so I apologize if I drove you nuts. Just trying to help guide to what I know is true within you.

God does exist, and it is you, me, and all things. You can experience that too, once you recognize that you are not your thoughts. Once that is known, you might experience a life of perpetual peace and awe.

A little tip: you know that feeling you get when you see a gorgeous sunset? Why do you feel that awe? You feel that awe because the mind, the judger within you, dissipates into nothingness. You forget yourself and you become this moment, which is what you really are. No longer are you comparing that moment to any other moment, because thought takes a break. Well, there's a way of becoming the moment perpetually, which is ironically also the process of becoming who you really are.

:)

I've spent most of my life contemplating the nature of intelligence and what makes us self-aware in the interest of developing an artificial intelligence program. I know a lot about what makes people tick and I see how a large number of functions in our brains interact to create the complex results that we observe in everyday behavior. I've also considered the nature of my existence, as I'm sure most people have, but my conclusions are grim. In the end, I'll just do what makes me happy and die with the bitter knowledge that the tools weren't available for me to live up to my full potential.

one involves the machinations of systems of power consisting of real, material people. the other consists of subjective, vague, untestable statements spoken by ironically condescending people.

There's nothing I can do prove the latter. I apologize for seeming condescending, although I have no clue where you gathered that belief. I do not know the personalities of each person to whom I write. Don't know who is sensitive, who is not. I am just being honest; speaking from heart.

Until one recognizes the fact that none of us exist as our thoughts, as our 'me', it is very, very challenging to convince one that the world might be a game, right now, for otherworldly beings. I mean, a year ago, I would have laughed at and mocked myself. But, after the experiences I've had with ego death, which has opened my eyes to the state of amnesia almost all of humanity exists in, I couldn't help but be drawn to Max Spiers and his truth. And if you actually give him a listen, you might find your own self very intrigued.

I can understand why someone wouldn't believe me. I can also understand why someone wouldn't want to believe me. It sounds absurd, sure. But all of this shit sounds absurd. We are living in a world where WW3 might actually happen and where we sit on conspiracy boards praying tptb do not inhumanely drop a nuke on we innocent people.

I have no facts, only videos for you to watch. But spend time focusing on your ego and what 'you' really are, and you might begin craving deeper truth from the world outside.

the implication that your understanding of reality is miles beyond another plebian's is inherently condescending. i certainly take no offense.

the fact that none of us exist as our thoughts

see, you take this as a given, but i ask, "where is the evidence for this? what do you even mean by this?"

And if you actually give him a listen, you might find your own self very intrigued.

if you can't compel me to give this concept a shred of clout, i'm not sure how someone else can.

We are living in a world where WW3 might actually happen and where we sit on conspiracy boards praying tptb do not inhumanely drop a nuke on we innocent people.

you're equating two completely different things, which i already outlined earlier: one involves (or is at least easily explainable involving only) real people, one does not. absurdity is not a valid defense in the same way that it is not a valid criticism.

But spend time focusing on your ego and what 'you' really are, and you might begin craving deeper truth from the world outside.

what makes your claims so incredibly ridiculous to me is that i have spent a good amount of time taking psychadelic drugs, and have even experienced a loss of self. i have come to understandings of the world and my place in it as a result of these experiences. the difference is that my conclusions are ones that i could have made just as well without the use of drugs. they also don't involve wild, untestable claims.

It's reassuring to see that some other people 'get it':) I came to the same conclusions but yes, I would be mocked by majority of people for suggesting these views. It all goes way deeper than just deep state.

either you are absolutely absurdly right, or we should blame it on the acid, either way I want to join your circle and take the trip lol.

Haha. We'll know in time, my friend. And I always appreciate a bright and open mind to join me in a trip. I should say...I haven't tripped often. But when I have, I've often made sure to do it for certain reasons (observing the ego, trying to perfectly understand Alan watts' lectures on reality, and so on). I do not suggest taking psychedelics just for the hell of it...that said, I can understand why someone might want to in this master-slave reality, haha.

I agree, it's a shitty world and seemingly getting worse every day, and then I look at my daughter and think "How can I protect you from this?"

with those stakes it's hard not to want some explanation, because honestly - the most obvious answer is - none of us matter, except to ourselves and nothing we do matters unless it matters to ourselves - it's really depressing.

Matters to who tho? Your expectations?

See. We live in the era of ego. Consciousness has been inverted, creating a 'me' which can get depressed. I was deeply depressed for years, which is what ultimately sparked my journey towards inner and outer truth. And I've discovered that humanity believes it is its thoughts, which is to believe in an illusion and which has fueled thousands of years of separation. Nothing to be depressed about, man. I completely feel you. Your daughter will be fine, I know it in my heart. I suggest letting go of every belief in how things should be and to accept them, genuinely and completely, as they are. That is when man begins discovering who he is and what reality might actually be.

I'll do that, and I appreciate your quick response.

Course, man.

Sounds to me like you have a bigger ego than anyone in this comment section.

You are probably reading what I write through the lens of expecting me to be or act a certain way.

I'm reading it through the lense of reality and how you are presenting yourself. This whole holier than thou "enlightened" attitude is pretentious as fuck especially coming from some random ass redditor in /r/conspiracy. Give me a break dude

So much hate, judgment. Holier than thou? I make a blatant effort to acknowledge that I am, by no means, better than anyone, in any way, because becoming "enlightened" really just means becoming the true state in which no beliefs exist. I'm not better than anyone. The way I speak via text might've made you think that.

When attempting to guide anyone to the root of truth, it often becomes necessary for one to speak with a sort of certainty, an exaggerated certainty, in order to make sense of what I am trying to say. I speak with emotion, from heart, and through experience. If you spoke to me in person, you wouldn't gather the "You're a cocky ass hole" sense that it seems you developed.

Also, what does me being in /r/conspiracy, on reddit, on a massive internet thread, have anything to do with being less legitimate than if I were in an ashram? Why is one thing more important, or more 'serious' than another? I am speaking truth, trying to help those who are curious. The only people who call me out as being 'conceited' are people who see my words as personality, and not my words as words. In other words, they read into my emotion, because I write with emotion, and assume I'm an ass hole, when in truth, I'm not being an ass hole and the person isn't actually reading the words I'm writing.

And, in all honesty, the fact that you took the time to call me out as pretentious based on how I write, rather than the point I'm actually making, screams that you are projecting your own reality, your own beliefs, your own way of reading, onto what I was saying.

Haha

Weak.

Whatever helps you sleep at night

This is exactly what the Gnostics were trying to tell people over 2,000 years ago. They call these parasitic beings the Archons, and they feed off of low consciousness vibratory energy - fear, anger, resentment, sadness, pain. They are extremely deceptive and sometimes masquerade as archangels or 'benevolent' beings when they are really of a false Light that is self-serving. They seek to deceive the souls that incarnate on this planet and make them forget their greater connection to Source reality (what the Gnostics called the Divine Spark). In this illusion of separation they have supported people and causes throughout history that have turned this into a prison planet.

I'm barely scratching the surface with my explanation and I encourage everyone to look into the Gnostic creation mythos and the concept of the Archons. David Icke and John Lamb Lash have spoken extensively on the subject.

I'm going to do my research on Gnosticism now. Thank you.

Glad to hear it, brother. Here is a good John Lash video to start with and here is another to follow up with. There are other researchers with good contributions but he really stands out. The primary source of Gnostic teachings are the Nag Hammadi scriptures which are available in their entirety on that site in multiple translations. The Gnostic creation mythos is one of the most profound and beautiful things I have ever come across. It sounds like it has already spoken to you, too. Keep up the Great Work.

Beautiful. And thank you for the links; so thoughtful. Excited to learn. Thank you, my friend.

I'm late with this, but wanted to share it with you because I felt it ran in line with things you were saying :) I'd written this thread a while ago and it got a good amount of backing/interest.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5zv1my/does_anyone_else_think_this_might_actually_be/

Curious what you think on the topic!

Alex Jones? That you?

Sounds like a crazy person.

Oh, I'm bananas. No doubt. But people said Jesus was nuts too. You never know, haha.

So you can preform miracles?

No, but I'm preaching the same message: that we've forgotten who and what we are because of temptation. The mind has developed ego, which is a manifestation of attachment to things outside of the self, and which has driven us to unfathomable separation (race wars, holy wars, political wars).

That said, I think we're all capable of 'miracles'. I didn't kill myself when I was suicidal. To me, that is a miracle.

My favorite theory is that of a bot net like entity that is connected in the astral sub reality and uses varying degrees of each humans subconscious and psychic ability. It can only act through compromised humans.

That's basically Final Fantasy 14

In alchemy this force is saturn. Sulphur/Brimstone satan in hell. The putrid black flame.

So essentially its the same as Sprites, fairys, demons and pixies in a more serious manner from the oldest stories recorded...wivestales are just unproven science/philosophy I swear. Its like the atom, it was thought of long before it was proven.

cut and paste from a previous post of mine:

This story is completely true in every detail to the best of my recollection; nothing is dramatized or exaggerated in any way. It happened to me about a quarter of a century ago. I told my wife what happened at that time, and she can verify that the landlord told her the same thing he told me.

It came in the middle of the day.

I was sitting upright in bad, on top of the covers, wide awake, eyes open, simply reading a book. I felt a sense of doom; it was as if the air pressure changed, the atmosphere was pressing down on me; I became suddenly and dreadfully afraid. The nature of my reality changed; in that moment I was propelled into hyper-reality; I sensed everything in overwhelming detail. I have never had an experience more real, before or after this moment, in my entire life.

I looked up from my book to see a dark being, a void filled with stars materialize at the bedroom doorway; it had a humanoid form. I sensed intelligence; it cocked it's head as it approached, as if to better evaluate my response. It's approach was swift and calculated; it entered quickly and approached the bed directly in the manner of an invader who has done this many times and expects no resistance.

In an instant it was upon me, pinning me to the bed; it held me down with the cold weight of the universe, so fast there was no chance to respond except to gasp and then it leaned in and kissed me, sealing my mouth tightly. As I breathed out, it breathed in, stealing my breath out of my body. I couldn't catch my breath; every time I breathed in, I inhaled the exhalation of the demon, but there was no oxygen just the frosty emptiness of space. I knew that it had come to feed on my fear.

I responded by digging deep down and tapping knowledge I didn't know I had; in that moment all of my ancestors were with me. I generated confidence, strength, and overwhelming power, and then I did something very strange: I laughed.

The demon shook it's head as if it tasted something bitter, reared back and regarded me closely; it seemed to realize something, there was a moment of recognition: I was not the person it had expected to find. In an instant, it was gone.

I sat up to catch my breath. I examined the moment carefully, my thoughts racing. I understood the phenomenon of sleep paralysis, but I had not woken up; I was never asleep, there was no question about that. I had not consumed any drugs; I wasn't ill or compromised in any way. This was something new; I had no way to explain this experience.

The next day I came home to find the landlords daughter playing at the bottom of the stairs. As I came down, she approached me; she was very young and I had trouble understanding her child talk. "Did you know that somebody died in your bed?" she asked, innocently. I looked at her; my first thought was that there was something mentally wrong with her, for such a small child to speak like this out of the blue. I changed the topic and she went back to playing with her dolls.

Later that night I asked my landlord about it. He took me aside into his office, closed the door and explained carefully that the previous tenant had been addicted to drugs, and had overdosed and died in that very bed. As he described the details of her life and her last weeks, I understood fully the nature of the beast. This being from another dimension was a feeder of negative emotions; it's simple proximity generated feelings of overwhelming fear, which it could eat. It had found this poor girl in a moment of weakness and stalked her, she became constantly afraid without knowing why. Her life became a constant struggle, in her downward spiral she turned to drugs. The demon encouraged her fall and fed on her fear. When it came that night, it was expecting her, but she had died and I was there instead.

An educated man or doctor would say that I had experienced a moment of sleep paralysis. It's quite common, they would say. The experience of hyper-reality is commonly reported, and it can happen when you are awake. I am not a superstitious man. I don't believe in demons, ghosts or spirits. I find myself split; there is a part of me that understands the reality of what I experienced that night; it knows that there are beings who roam everywhere, feeding on the fear of men; they are lovers of conflict. war and misery. I know that they will never go hungry. I know that simply by explaining this reality to you, I have opened a door in your mind, and for that I am truly sorry. The demons can find you now, and they will come for you. I'm sorry. It is better that you know the truth; you have a defense, where before you had none. There is no turning back; no escape. You must know thyself, build and live a life that is true to yourself and believe in yourself without reservation. Nothing else matters.

Unbelievable. Thank you for sharing. Absolutely unbelievable.

I've been experiencing sudden bouts of 'doom' for a few months now. They come out of nowhere; for literally no reason, other than having an anxious and fearful history. The story you've written here seems completely honest and real to me.

I have never had any incident like it since. That was over 20 years ago. All I can tell you is that it seemed that as long as you believe in yourself, and you are not afraid, this being had no power. You are stronger than you know. Believe in yourself.

Onwards, forever

I firmly believe it. Max Spiers said the same. The exact same. Avoid these 'beings' by understanding that fear is an illusion; by knowing who you are, completely. Thanks for sharing your story.

Can you recommend any of his work? I've heard of Icke but not Speirs I don't think.

Of course, man. Here's one: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EaDGcPK-KwU

Maybe follow the side bar for others. Enjoy, man. It's wild information, whether you believe it or not haha

Cheers mate, I was just reading about how he died and how the cops aren't investigating which leads me to believe there are some nuggets in there a.

Yeah, man. Keep going. It's wild. Obviously you can think for yourself, but if I can offer advice (and this advice is something I heard from an enlightened guru, and it ironically ended up being said by Spiers in one of his videos): only keep the information that speaks to your heart, your soul. All of this stuff is encoded, I believe, in our DNA. Have you ever read something and it just felt true? I think you might have similar experiences reading about or listening to Max Spiers. Good luck on your journey.

Ye definatly a, I take this approach instinctively as I take alot of what these guys say as there own personal theories so I use them to update my own theories and work my towards the truth.

Right on. Great wisdom.

Its not terrorism when we do it only when the other guys do it.

They unwittingly created the catalyst for the US anti-war/anti-military industrial complex movement. Nice work!

They unwittingly created the catalyst for the US anti-war/anti-military industrial complex movement

that is a common misunderstanding

political activists often viewed "heads" with disdain during the 1960s

political activists often viewed "heads" with disdain during the 1960s

that is a common misunderstanding

The activist Yippies definitely enlisted the naive or apolitical Hippies regularly during this period, they did not simply shun them. Otherwise they wouldn't have had the vast numbers, which you need in a strong movement.

And yes, I know that Yippie activist Abbie Hoffman was hit over the head with a guitar by Pete Townsend during The Who's set at Woodstock. But he also rushed the stage and started screaming at everyone and telling them they were useless... and sometimes people need to take a break, you dig?

that is a common misunderstanding

The activist Yippies definitely enlisted the naive or apolitical Hippies regularly during this period, they did not simply shun them. Otherwise they wouldn't have had the vast numbers, which you need in a strong movement.

the yippies were a minority fringe; look into the SDS, for starters

I'm aware, but that doesn't detract much from my comment.

I'm aware, but that doesn't detract much from my comment.

yes, it does -- lsd, at best, only played a tangential role in creating "the US anti-war/anti-military industrial complex movement"

And how much experience do you have with it?

And how much experience do you have with it? Or consciousness expanding psychedelics in general?

quite a bit, though the phrase "consciousness expanding" strikes me as vapid propagandistic rhetoric

Or maybe you're just doing it for the wrong reasons.

Or maybe you're just doing it for the wrong reasons.

what would those be?

Because this post is a big fucking lie!! It isn't true IN THE SLIGHTEST.

Apparently a memo was put out to all the Trump, Assange, and conspiracy subs to try and make the French people distrustful of the CIA and the rest of the western world. They hope this will push them towards nationalist Le Pen. Check out the post on TIL and look at T_D. They are trying to influence the French election and this is just another fucking propaganda attempt.

TARGETED MISINFORMATION PEOPLE.

Tell me, who would gain from the world of public opinion vilifying the CIA? I'll give you a hint: they're an authoritarian nuclear super power that rhymes with USSIA.

This is the god damn conspiracy people. There is no fucking way that just coincidentally all this shit starts popping up spouting the same lies that just so happen to align with Russian political ideology.

Fuck you OP. (Not the guy I'm replying to) Who told you to post this pile of anti American shit???

The most egregious part about it is that the CIA has actual atrocities in their history to point at but these assholes go for a lie about FRANCE who just so happens to have a critical election coming up!!! When the fuck will the west learn this shit??

Apparently a memo was put out to all the Trump, Assange, and conspiracy subs to try and make the French people distrustful of the CIA and the rest of the western world. They hope this will push them towards nationalist Le Pen.

Lmao.

Less than 0.01% of the French population goes on reddit dude

this pile of anti American shit

Oh no, someone is critiquing the Holy CIA! Better defend them as if my life depends on it!

Idiot.

Critiquing a FALSEHOOD! The CIA has committed so many atrocities that are historical fact to the point that this post is almost an insult to their real victims.

Really? Dropping a hallucinogen on a town in post WWII France? You believe that? Who was there to collect data and study the effects? Where is the French testimony to the events? LSD is incredibly sensitive to heat and breaks down quickly if it isn't refrigerated, so how the hell did they accomplish this amazing feat?

Jackass. Think a little before you gobble this shit up.

Who said I believed this, lmao

Yet here you are defending this "critique" of the CIA as if it were an honest intellectual exercise. With everything happening in the world and France on the verge of the most important election in a long time, I find it hard to believe that this isn't deliberate misinformation to rile up public anger at the CIA. The fact that it is happening across multiple subs at the same time makes it increasingly apparent. I truly believe that it is anti-American, or at least anti-west, in its intent.

No, my attack on you isn't a defense of this submission.

I was directly attacking you over the implied conspiratorial assertion that anti-American/CIA sentiment is being manufactured, rather than coming honestly from Americans disillusioned with their own government and institutions.

I truly believe that it is anti-American, or at least anti-west, in its intent.

well, yes, every critique of a western country or its institutions is anti-american/anti-west by its very nature.

LSD doesn't break down if not in the fridge. I have a strip that's 5 plus years old and it has lost no potency and its been at room temp the whole time

How could spraying LSD in cause deaths?

Someone thinks they can fly.

LSD is derived from ergot, a fungus that grows on rye. They say the people who died at Pont St Esprit died of ergotism from bad bread in town.

Hasn't thought of the effects it could have on crops / foods... I guess the CIA hadn't either.

LSD would not affect the crops like that. It would actually probably never make it to harvest as sunlight would destroy it before it can. Also one of the big problems ergot causes when it's eaten is it fucks with the cardiovascular system to a ridiculous amount. Interestingly, LSD doesn't do that near as much. In fact this is one of the reasons it preferable to so many truly comparable psychedelics (LSA, NBOMEs, etc.) Which can cause circulation issue in your extremities that in ergotism gets so bad as to be dangerous.

Putting LSD on any kind of substrate doesn't magically contaminate it with the fungus. Not even talking about the incredibly absurd likelihood of it causing a death, let alone four, so yeah, unless we get some reasonable sources I'm gently calling bullshit on this one.

Yeah that's like saying applying insulin to your skin will cause you to be infected by the bacteria that made it.

This did cross my mind, but I haven't had time to look into the claim, so had no basis to argue it.

If the information we have to go on is just that "four people died" then I would say it's unlikely they died directly from the effects of LSD.

It is much more plausible that if suddenly an entire village starts having visual distortions and seeing everything melting before their eyes with no apparent cause, people will start behaving in a panicked way that will lead to deaths. Im actually amazed more people did not died if this is true.

You can read about the actual event - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-Esprit_mass_poisoning .

Op is saying the bread had ergot fungus on it(ie it was moldy) which led to the lsd-like experience.

Its derived from it but they are 2 different things and have very different effects. I dont think the cia would mess that up if they were really testing lsd. So, either the town was intentionally poisoned with a substance other than lsd, or it was an accidental manufacturing defect in their food, or it was something completely different.

You ever take LSD and watch your friends turn into monsters? Thats how.

Source: personal experience.

Set and setting douche

Yeah man anyone suggesting LSD is anything other than 100% wonderful and good and wholesome is a douche bad.

The CIA has spent the last 50 years dosing people with LSD because they just wanted to spread the love and enlightenment man!

Jerry GarCIA

LOL. It was actually the soundman, "Bear" who was CIA. Of course "Bear" was a fake name, his real name was Augustus Stanley Owsley III, the scion of one of the richest and most powerful establishment families in America.

But he dressed up like a hippie, called himself "Bear" and all the druggies fell for it.

They all had to go along, willingly or unwillingly. It wasn't hard to talk the band members into unlimited drugs and pampering with no legal risk, or they were on board from day one and didn't need convincing.
I'd say Jerry ended up very far from happy with his decision..

I'm a fan of the Dead and thought Garcia was a sublime musician. But it's pretty obvious that the drugs cause him a lot of harm throughout his life.

A deeply unhappy man, desperately trying to drown the world out with non-stop hard drugs.

Tim Leary was an agent.

No question about it.
Look up Grace Marie Haddy Grateful Dead.
Then look her up now.
Look up Eric Trist, Tavistock superstar, who's son Alan Trist, the highly educated group psychology scholar, is Phil Lesh's lifelong bestie, the GD manager for years, and the CEO of their ice nine publishing company.
Gregory Bateson originally dosed Robert Hunter, and Ken Kesey. His Daughter is Bill and Hilary Clinton's top ''spiritual advisor'' LOL.
Gregory Bateson openly published works on mass group trance induction.
His wife spent her life studying teen sex practices in indigenous tribes. Margaret Mead.
The more you look, the more you see.

Dammit. Why do the Clinton's always have to be around the corner lol! I'll look him up on my break.

His dad was as important as Darwin, and literally invented ''genetics''.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Bateson
Hitler loved him deeply.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregory_Bateson
The early films of Margaret Mead and Gregory Bateson:

Trance & Dance in Bali (1952), 22 min. New York University Film Library. New York. http://psychoculturalcinema.com/20-ethnographic-and-documentary-films-psychological-anthropologists-should-be-teaching/
This wiki is so wiped clean it's impressive:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Catherine_Bateson
The co-writer of Hilary's''It Takes a Village'' but wiped off of the wiki.
''Feinman Todd says she folded and gave Woodward what she calls “the pearl”: She told Woodward about a meeting she sat in on with Hillary Clinton, Mary Catherine Bateson, and the New Age author Jean Houston in the White House Solarium, where Houston guided Clinton through an exercise of imagining she was talking to Eleanor Roosevelt, then inhabiting Roosevelt’s persona and reversing the conversation. Clinton also “spoke” to Mahatma Gandhi during the exercise.

Feinman Todd says she revealed this under the condition Woodward didn’t use it, but after returning to the US after traveling in Europe, she found herself strangely frozen out by Hillary Clinton and uncredited in the book, a minor Clinton scandal that became known as “Thankyougate.” '' https://www.washingtonian.com/2017/02/06/barbara-feinman-todd-bob-woodward-burned-hillary-clinton/
Jean Houston was one of the most prolific LSD and psilocybin researchers in history, who now runs a power elite new age cult for the wealthy.
http://www.jeanhouston.com/
Mary doesn't have a cult per se, but is on the same path.
http://www.mcbateson.com/

Huh?

I'm skeptical that spraying it in the atmosphere would cause everyone to start tripping balls. Doesn't it degrade extremely quickly when exposed to air/sunlight?

Not really that quickly, AFAIK. Still, I'm not sure how it would behave as an aerosol, but I wouldn't expect it to lose much of its potency for at least a few days.

Does that happen everytime?

Sometimes they just turn into morphing jelly blobs.

No. Not at all. It was a bad day that lead to a bad experience. I was just more or less stating how horrible it could be especially for a unwitting victim to LSD. I've only tried it a couple times in my 20s.

On actual LSD? Not really, no.

So I got downvoted for a personal bad experience?

Yes, this is Reddit. Any criticism of the Holy Drug LSD gets immediate downvotes. After all, the CIA spent 50 years promoting LSD so therefore it must be all good.

Because you're full of it. So much ignorance in this thread.

Your friends "turned into monsters"....? People who have taken LSD laugh at these people because they know they're lying. You can always tell someome is lying when they say something along the lines of "monsters" or full blown hallucinations.

That's just not what LSD does at all

Did you think for a second that I'm not you or everyone else? Individuals can any number of experiences on hallucinogens. Then please for me and everyone here explain why I had such a horrible experience on LSD? Was it a bad batch? Was I told it was LSD and it was something else? Please enlighten us instead of calling me a liar. I know what I saw.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. It's either you took something other than LSD or you're full of shit... One or the other.

LSD does not induce full blown hallucinations. Again, if you've truly done LSD and you listen to someones "experience", it's fairly obvious if they actually did it.

One of the most obvious and common stories (that are bullshit) revolves around full blown hallucinations of monsters lol.

Okay so you admit i may have been given something else and yes I was young when I took it and thought it was came from a reliable source. Thats all you had to say instead of trying to make me sound like some kind of liar.

LSD does not induce full blown hallucinations.

Obviously you've never taken a high dose of LSD because it can and does induce "full blown hallucinations."

People who have actually taken LSD know that you are either lying or full of shit.

I've taken upwards of 500ug multiple times. Closed eye visuals are one thing, but your "friends turning into monsters" is another

You must have had a bad batch, because "friends turning into monsters" is one of many hallucinations a high enough dose of LSD can cause. Hell, it's a common theme in the literature.

"Bad batch" isn't a thing. It's either LSD or it's not.

I have literally ehrlich tested every tab of LSD that has entered my body

You actually said that LSD doesn't cause "full blown hallucinations." We know that is false. Who should we believe, the entire history of LSD, the literature from people who have taken LSD, our own personal experiences ... or some dude on reddit calling himself "PMmePSILOCYBIN" with some very weird quasi-religious notions about drugs?

Have you never seen your friends faces shift and morph into something scary? That's what I took from his statement not fill blown turning into monsters. It can happen and I've even known someone become fully convinced his friends were shape shifters and not really humans... he still won't talk to them because of it.

I have actually, but saying the way he did only makes people think "man LSD is scary as fuck dude if this guy saw his friends go full fledged monster"

Dude, just read his name. He's a drug fanatic, it's like a religion to him. You are suggesting that his religion isn't 100% perfect therefore he reacts with extreme hostility.

It's a side effect of long term drug abuse. I'd just ignore him.

Yeah I checked him out lol. You would think that someone who does enough drugs would just say, "Hey man, that's not LSD normal M.O. based from personal experience I think you might of been lied to and given something else."

Perception vs deception.. How are we to know what you really "saw"?

If LSD doesn't do that then what did I take? That's the important question now. I'm not lying about the horrid misadventure I had but the question is what did that? I see no one offering any input on that.

Can you deduce what I consumed if it wasn't LSD? Please go on I'm all ears...

I was like 16 and I am now 29 so I don't remember much anymore. Sorry I can't be of more help.

It's all about perception. However you viewed it, happened. I don't know if you are exaggerating or not. I do not know you, I am just going by the "norm" of what I have read by other people. Now I am not normal so I can totally see that happening to someone with high stress/anxiety.

Also not a normie and I have dealt with anxiety issues in my early 20's. I wasn't on medication at the time I took it but it could of added to it.

Yeah I feel you there. Sorry there are doubters, but that's just how it is, but I believe you.

I just remembered something that I locked away in my brain. There was a time when my Ex-Boyfriend turned into a demon or something. It was something about his eyes (this was way back when I first met him). Little did I come to learn that he is a manipulative, abusive, and possessive person. So go figure on that experience. That was like a warning I ignored now that I reflect on that. Ugh, I was an idiot.

Yeah I am inclined to agree. I am anxious as they come and while I have only tried it twice, no one person to my disappointment turned into a monster. But I remember it was hilarious to play Tony Hawk 3 (I hate time). Shrooms are so much better for me personally, but sadly I'm still waiting for a monster, ghost or alien to show up.

I'm still waiting for a monster, ghost or alien to show up.

DMT is what you're looking for

I have heard of that and as much as it sounds tempting I probably would end up in another dimension, on another planet or just dead lol.

Two committed suicide and 4 people died “in muscular spasm and in a state of cardiovascular collapse”; three of these were old and in poor health, but one was a healthy 25-year-old.

They could have been stress induced heart attacks.

Source?

Thanks goodness somebody is talking sense in this thread. So many people are hopelessly misinformed about LSD it seems.

You can tell who actually knows what they're talking about and who just knows of LSD from the DARE program.

How much LSD would it take to actually effect someone if it's sprayed from a plane in the air? Low-attitude flight might need only like 100 grams of it, not a big deal, especially if 100ug of LSD seem to cost around 50 cents to make it. I'm not saying this is true, just answering your question.

They don't need sources! Any sources would have been destroyed long ago by the all powerful and evil CIA. Actually, the fact that there are no sources just makes it even more obvious that this definitely did happen!

Also if it DID work, how do you control doses? Lsd is active at the microgram, it seems like it would be really easy too accidentally give someone waaaay too much. Just doesn't seem plausible for all the reasons you mentioned.

And on top of that if they somehow managed to spray enough LSD to cause effects that severe ( LSD doesn't cause those things) you would think someone out of the whole town would have realized they were tripping absolute balls.

The CIA has done some pretty fucked up things but this is just silly.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/neuroskeptic/2010/11/27/the-town-that-went-mad/

I'm not sure either way if it was LSD. I was just trying to state how those 6 people died. Their deaths and other symptoms don't entirely rule out or confirm LSD.

That doesn't seem like LSD.

Also OP literally has no sources in his post and you also have no sources. Why should anyone believe you?

I searched for a source, this post was the first result, and the next one was one saying that that wasn't true. Do with that what you will.

Welcome to r/conspiracy

He gives a source in the 2nd paragraph? John Potash's book "Drugs as Weapons Against Us"

Oh of course, John Potash. The guy no one's ever heard​of, and his book that purportedly claims the government murdered John Lennon, Jimi Hendrix, Kurt Cobain and Tupac after using them as a drug guinea pigs.

Yep, convinced me alright.

Oh of course, random bullshit.

yes, exactly.

look all I'm saying is that OP gave a source to where he got his information, to me anything past that doesn't matter

Doot doo doo, just driving to work at 40mph. HOLY SHIT THERES A FUCKING TRANSDIMENSIONAL MONSTER IN THE ROAD FUCK (crashes into tree)

Yeah lol that's literally nothing what LSD is like

You cannot OD on lsd. so they are likely associating other deaths to lsd,because the this subreddit loves anti us propaganda.

I'm pretty skeptical that aerosol based LSD would even cause anyone to trip either...

But, I have no idea what effect on health inhalation of LSD would cause..

LSD is psychoactive if it at all comes into contact with someone so yeah aerosol would've fucked em up.

mmm nope

It could be absorbed through the skin, no breathing or swallowing necessary

No, it can't.

Iirc Hoffman originally discovered the effects of lsd because some absorbed into his skin. So yeah, you can.

No he probably touched his eye or mouth. You cannot absorb LSD thru the skin. No other chemist has been able to recreate the LSD thru the skin https://www.reddit.com/r/Drugs/comments/2b8d0z/lsd_absorbed_through_skin/

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An aerosol of a liquid like LSD is a colloidal suspension of particles dispersed in gas. If you spray this liquid suspended in gas over a surface, the liquid doesn't just disappear, gravity causes most of it to collect near where it was dispersed.

I get that, what I'm saying us that I've never heard of anyone inhaling LSD vapor before. I'm skeptical that it would have any significant psychoactive effects unless it was in extremely high concentration.

It would just be such an uneven dosing to various people, there would be no way to gain any insight if you don't know how much more the farmer in the field got than the teacher in the school house. I know the government gave it to unknowing people in more controlled situations, but just misting a town does not make much sense. So yeah, I am very skeptical also.

Well, that's incorrect. It would be very difficult to overdose on LSD, but it certainly is possible.

I can't seem to find the link now, but I remember reading that one of the only recorded deaths from LSD overdose was a man who intravenously injected over 150mg of LSD, believing it to be amphetamines, resulting in his death. To put that in perspective, the average dose of LSD is approximately 100 micrograms.

So overdosing on LSD is possible, just highly expensive and impractical.

So did he get a killer deal on LSD or just paid way more than necessary for his amphetamines?

"killer deal"

you monster

I don't recall exactly, but I believe he had two vials of liquid LSD & amphetamines (he may have been a chemist and produced both, or purchased both), and he mistook one vial for the other somehow.

And how would one go about producing their own LSD? Hypothetically of course.

I don't know the exact process, but it is highly difficult and requires an advanced understanding of chemistry and sophisticated equipment typically only used in legitimate laboratories; hence why a vast majority of LSD is produced by legitimate chemists in labs and is very rarely produced by amateurs.

This gives a fairly decent rundown:

Making LSD requires a strong working knowledge of organic chemistry, a complete laboratory setup (including the ability to sterilize equipment as well as access to a darkroom), and several chemicals that are currently either sales restricted or have their sales closely monitored by the Drug Enforcement Agency (DEA). Unlike the chemicals used in the manufacture of methamphetamine, they can't be found in fairly ordinary household items.

That's a ridiculous amount of money, I really doubt this guy was buying amphetamines but ended up getting a fuckton of LSD.

No, I'm guessing he had knowingly purchased both separately, and mistook the vials for the other or something.

Overdosing in terms of toxicity is hard - overdosing in terms of people's mental capacity to handle the trip is another thing entirely.

You cannot OD on lsd.

false

This is so stupid, it hurts. If you woke up and got blasted out of your mind on LSD without knowing it, it'd be very easy to go out for your normal day and die. Whether you hallucinate, or the other guy driving does, or whatever. Everyone is super fucked up without knowing it directly so plenty of stupid shit can kill a lot of people.

Yeah if you have bad anxiety, heart problems, and suddenly you start tripping (without knowing why) I could totally see that being a bad combination.

I think people are being wilfully dense here.

While nobody might have died, as far as we know, this is not propaganda: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7415082/French-bread-spiked-with-LSD-in-CIA-experiment.html

This sub is anti-us, nothing to do with propaganda, a lot more with the US being proper dicks on a daily basis.

The United States had LSD so powerful back then that you could begin tripping solely from superficial contact. 1 hit of LSD could make someone experience side-effects. Imagine LSD being exposed to all of your pores and into your body. The associated deaths in France weren't from ODing on LSD but the effects of that trip would have been devastating. These people were probably on 100 hits of LSD each, maybe even more.

I dunno, someone is driving a delivery truck, and they're been feeling kind of weird, and everything looks so strangely vibrant and meaningful, but they carry on driving...then they start peaking and they're certainly not expecting that, and have never experienced anything remotely like it before, and they see a multicolor dragon in the road so they veer off, killing pedestrians and then smash the truck into a building? For instance?

Imagine you go about your daily business and inadvertendly get intoxicated by mind altering drugs, you may not even notice until you drive your car off the road, fall off a ledge, ingest something toxic, whatever.

I've never really paid much attention to the chemtrails stuff but a couple weeks ago I was leaving my house for work at 5:20 in the am like usual....it was still dark at that time and I could see multiple lines crisscrossed all over the sky above my house....why? Why is this a thing at all never mind while we are all mostly sleeping?

Those are the edges of the screens, you're in the Truman Show friend

Those are the edges of the screens, you're in the Truman Show friend

Damn...that's what I figured...

Except it's the Domenicaxx66xx show. Sounds pretty edgy.

Planes fly at night, and its possible the colder air is conducive to contrails sticking around longer. I dont actually know, its just an idea.

http://alam25.tripod.com/exp.htm

one time I saw a black-ish helicopter fly low over my neighborhood, so I hopped on my bike and followed it. it touched down in a nearby field, turns out it was airlifting some kid who had a medical emergency or something.

just because a heli is black or dark, don't assume it's military or covert

Yep, but when they fly low over your house lined exactly to where you are standing and multiple times.. Well, I hope they are transporting sick kids.

"lined exactly to where you are standing"

bro, get help

This is all about you!! Youre important enough for helicopters.

I don't know why you're being downvoted, literally the only person here who's acting sane.

Do you know what sub you're in right now?

I mean yeah, but still come one some of these comments are just crazy town banana pants. That's not even mentioning the geriatric rambling post that started it all.

I agree with you, I'm just pointing out that this kind of logic is the norm around here. Don't come to a conspiracy sub expecting everyone to act "sane" and normal.

OP is what /r/conspiracy is all about! And these comments are on point too. Safe to say WE BACK?!

Probably not...but shit, this whole post brought me back to the good 'ol days pre-trumptards where people posted the most ridiculously hilarious unproven bullshit conspiracy theories that elicited the highest quality of diversified comments. Haha - fuck yeah this post is GRADE A /r/conspiracy.

And scene.

Thanks guys. Take five and we will continue chipping away at conzpiracy theories with ztorie of helicopters when we pick back up.

Yea, but this entire post is amazing. I mean, even for here. The way OP rambles and shifts from topic to topic without much substance except rampant paranoia makes me believe he might have a touch of the schizophrenia. I'm not a doctor, but I've had two family members with it and they both told stories the same way when they were on their meds. When off it got much, much stranger. "Another_Desk_Jockey, You need to go out into the woods, there are gifts there, but don't get caught or they'll put hoses in your noses!" Yea...

that's exactly why I posted. at the time of my anecdote I was withdrawing from SSRI's myself and was experiencing mania/paranoia, and the OP's thought patterns reminded me of it.

If you're telling people not to assume that what's the point of this sub.

I'm just saying to not let things get away from you

Little do you know, they dosed that kid with LSD and then threw him out over a French town.

I don't think that's how LSD works, I think you would have to actually ingest it, I'm sure some people could've gotten "dosed" but not the entire village.

LSD absorbs through the skin as well. No need for ingestion.

No you can literally just rub it on your skin to gain a high.

Or drop it in your eyeball woooooo

lol

No, you can't.

The literal discovery of LSD was from skin contact to Hoffmans hand.

Supposedly. The first intentional trip was dosed orally. There's no records to say that it was absorbed through his skin.

No that's actually false.

LSD is easily absorbed through the skin

It is not easily absorbed through skin though, at all. You need to have a DMSO before LSD could be active through skin absorbstion. This whole thing is bullshit....

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And all we get is stupid nano aluminum particles.

Yea if you "don't think" or "think" something then don't say it like a fact. You're just going to look dumb.

If it is liquid LSD you very will will have a trip. I've had hundreds of LSD trips, not including other chemicals. People put liquid LSD in spray bottles at music festivals lol.

I live across the river from Westover AFB, and about 25 miles from Barnes AFB. There has been zero activity in the past couple of days.

Is that not normal?

I'm by Offut. It's normal but the weather is fucking cold as hell and cloudy so who knows.

According to reddit, that means the CIA loves the French people are was trying to enlighten them. Because as anyone can tell you, LSD is a wonderful drug that enlightens you and has zero bad effects whatsoever.

I guess the CIA is great!

Lsd is a wonderful drug and One could argue has much more positive effects than alcohol. I mean have you taken LSD? I have taken LSD off and on since I was 14 and I'm 28 now. I've found it to be quite helpful to me personally as I have recurring anxiety and depression that seems to evaporate in the face of certain hallucinogens like lsd and Dmt for months after one use.

I have taken LSD off and on since I was 14 and I'm 28 now.

I have recurring anxiety and depression

The CIA really did a number on you. You get anxiety and depression unless you're dosed on LSD, the CIA's favorite drug.

Really, the CIA's favorite drug? Not cocaine or heroin? Remember Iran contra? I also didn't say I have anxiety and depression if I'm not on lsd. I said I have anxiety and depression. I've found using certain hallucinogens from time to time helps alleviate those psychological problems I've had since I was a child. Lsd isn't some scary bogeyman, it's just a drug like any other... all drugs are a continuum of harm and benefit any break is arbitrary.

Really, the CIA's favorite drug?

Yes. One can only assume you are ignorant on the subject. I can give you a place to start if you are interested in learning about the subject. Two books: "Acid Dreams" and "Storming Heaven" goes into great detail of the CIA's long term promotion of LSD.

In fact, the CIA are the people that introduced LSD to America.

I partially agree with you that people shouldn't praise any drug because it makes them look like they're druggies.

I would really not agree with the fact that depression can be cured by being healthy and exercising. It's your brain, it's not your body, who suffers. By being healthy, your body is healthy. If you have something wrong in your brain, no being healthy and exercising will heal that. It will help it, I agree, but you can't heal it fully with these things.

LSD is good for anxiety and depression because it shows you another point of view, not the depressing / anxious one you're used to. I wouldn't call him drug dependent, he just has to discover the fact that HE is healing himself and is using LSD just as a medium, not that the drug is healing him. Make this realization, and most of your anxiety and depression will be gone.

it makes them look like they're druggies.

No, that is not why people shouldn't "praise" drugs at all.

I would really not agree with the fact that depression can be cured by being healthy and exercising. It's your brain, it's not your body, who suffers.

Um, your brain is part of your body. Exercise and diet has a significant effect on your brain, which is, after all, just a physical organ in your body. You may be thinking of the "mind" - which is a religious notion. There is no "mind" there is only your brain.

LSD is good for anxiety and depression because it shows you another point of view, not the depressing / anxious one you're used to.

I'm sorry that simply does not follow. Lots of things "show you another point of view" and there is FAR more evidence that diet and exercise alleviate depression than LSD does - it's not even close.

Make this realization, and most of your anxiety and depression will be gone.

Yeah, that sounds like a lot of religious mumbo-jumbo frankly. Let's stick to fact, science, and reality.

You seem like someone who hasn't taken LSD, but speaks out of his research only. There is far more evidence of diet and exercise alleviating depression than the one on LSD because it simply cannot be tested because it's illegal. The mind certainly is, and the mind controls your physical body. You're mind strapped to a carrier, and it depends on you (your mind) what do you do. If there would be no mind, then everything would be automatic.

Just try to stop reading endless pages about science and try to go out once in a while, maybe even take the LSD to understand its powers.

There is far more evidence of diet and exercise alleviating depression than the one on LSD because it simply cannot be tested because it's illegal.

Yet we know that diet and exercise are even more effective than legal drugs with lots of research done on them like Prosac. Why are we to believe LSD is any different?

Oh that's right, because a bunch of acid-freaks took LSD and think they became "enlightened" and therefor it must be some miracle cure.

Same with the pot heads who think pot cures every ailment.

It's just the drugs talking.

the mind controls your physical body

Yeah, more religious mumbo-jumob. I'm an atheist, no thanks.

Just try to stop reading endless pages about science and try to go out once in a while, maybe even take the LSD to understand its powers.

I've taken LSD more than once. It's not a miracle drug, it's not "enlightening" - it's just a drug. It can be really fun but once you stop taking it for a while you realize there is no "there" there. It's just a drug.

I enjoy smoking pot occasionally, but I'm not under the delusion it makes me more "enlightened" or "peaceful" or whatever other nonsense the drug cultists believe.

Look, you got this all wrong. LSD is any different because it's used for its psychoactive effects (the high), unlike other anti-anxiety drugs, and anti-depressants. I don't think LSD enlightens you, it gives you the option of another point of view. I completely agree with your stance on the pot heads, even though I am a pot head too.

Why would you need to be religious to know that your mind affects your everyday life, and everything you do is thought out by mind, not the body? I never said mind is like a soul. I probably should not have said mind, but consciousness and self-awareness.

I haven't ever said LSD is a miracle drug, but I am pretty sure LSD is enlightening in its way, and it can sure affect your thinking long-term. The afterglow and the change of opinion is not the same, but both can happen from taking LSD. The afterglow definetly goes away, but the change of opinion based on your expierence might not go away.

What I would say is that LSD changes your way of thinking which can change your opinions on things. You, however, need to contribute to that changes. You need to be the change, not the LSD. Next time, probably concentrate on the thinking part, not on the visual one :)

everything you do is thought out by mind, not the body?

Good lord, there you go again. You are talking about the BRAIN, which is a part of your body.

LSD changes your way of thinking which can change your opinions on things.

So does alcohol, but thankfully drunks don't think they are "enlightened" and don't tend to form weird drug cults. They think they are funnier and sexier than they really are but thankfully the delusion wears off the next day.

The effects of LSD also wear off, but if you keep taking it you're never going to get your head straight again.

Seek help.

Of course I am talking about the brain, that's why I said consciousness later.

Anyways, the difference between the highs is what makes you think other ways. Alcohol breaks down your boundaries, that's the reason you feel this way. LSD does not break your boundaries down. You are comparing oranges and apples expecting them to be the same and mean the same... you're ridicoulous mate.

Then why do you keep saying that the brain isn't a part of the body? Of course it's a part of the body.

LSD does not break your boundaries down.

Nice weasel words there. You can't even define "breaking down boundaries" in any reasonable way. In fact, your whole "ego" shtick is an example of "breaking boundaries."

You can't even keep your own arguments straight. It may be all the drugs. Get help.

Okay, if you want to go to the detail, then the fact that these two act completely differently on completely different receptors in your brain makes the highs very different. Alcohol makes you not give a fuck, LSD does not. LSD elevates your state of consciousness, alcohol does not. Alcohol is neurotoxic and damages your brain, LSD does not. I haven't seen a single fucking thing from you that made any sense, neither anything that would even signalize that you used LSD.

Get your head out of your ass and probably listen to someone who actually knows what he's talking about. I am done with talking to someone who's denying the facts that have been proven by thousands of people, and by many scientists.

Do you think people like Steve Jobs and Bill Gates openly lie about the facts that LSD changed them positively? Do you think they would talk about it, or praise it, if it had not made a single change in their thinking or creativity processes?

I am done with this conversation because it leads to completely nothing, since you can't accept the fact that something like a drug can help someone, or change their thinking. Deal with it and accept it. Bye.

LSD elevates your state of consciousness, alcohol does not.

Bzzt - there you go again. LSD does not "elevate your state of consciousness" - that phrase has no objective meaning, at all. Consciousness does not "elevate." What is that even supposed to MEAN?

What LSD actually does is distort thought processes and perceptions due to mimicking certain neurotransmitters and disrupting serotonin levels. There's nothing "elevating" about it, nor "boundary breaking" about it. It is just making your brain malfunction.

it alters it, not elevates. Sorry. it alters it.

You know what else "alters" your consciousness? Banging yourself on the head with a hammer. I wouldn't suggest it though.

It looks like you speak from an expierence, by the way you take things, and look at them. When you run out of arguments, you write stupid shit like this. Good luck :)

I'm glad to look at those books and I appreciate the direction. I'm not ignorant of the CIA having been involved early on, I just have come to find that LSD has transcended any CIA involvement. LSD also preceded the CIA involvement. You must remember that Albert Hoffman was the chemist that introduced the drug to humanity. He, I imagine. had a different vision for its use than the CIA did. I find that vision more in line with how I use the drug.

So sure, my knowledge is limited on the CIA involvement in it. I'm more concerned with the failed drug policies that pervade our society and the drug propaganda that brainwashes people into thinking like you do. You wrongly judge me based on my drug use.

As far as having a drug dependence, you are quite wrong, by about 6 months and a different drug. I have been an Iv drug user since I was 17, 11 years ago. At 14 I first tried heroin, methamphetamines, mdma, etc... most people aren't faced with the choice of using hard drugs or not at 14. I was given the choice and I paid the price of that choice. I have had 2 of my best friends die. I have been incarcerated 17 times including prison. I've been homeless, and near the end I attempted suicide by jumping off a 80ft. Gorge. I know the perils and pain associated with drug dependence in a world of drug prohibition. What I do now pales in comparison to what one could consider dependence. I use nothing but the occasional psychedelic and a lil marijuana And it funking works.

I think it's best not to advise people over the internet on what they should do. I just get tired of people chiming in on there hatred of my existence as a drug user. I'm not sorry that I use drugs and I'm proud of who I am. Give me some support bro, I haven't used heroin in 6 months. That's a goddamn miracle considering the statistics. Give credit where credits due. I'd be struggling just that much more without LSD.

Cool bro, let's just put random unsuspecting people under it.

Even if people were fine with it: LSD, like all drugs, is an escape.

It lets you peer into a world you would otherwise have access to if you didn't live in society that robs you of your innate gifts and abilities-- a society that forces you be and act a certain way in order to survive in it (for the most part). It also mitigates your anxiety because it takes you out of those feelings, just like opiates take you out of pain; they transport you emotionally to the plane you should be at if you hadn't been damaged as a child/by society.

All drugs are like this

For example:

•Alcohol unlocks your natural inclination to socialise and have fun (it actually slows your brain so it cannot process away your existing emotions and your natural emotions then come out unfiltered e.g. an angry person gets angry and breaks stuff, a sociable person parties, and a shy scared person gets nervous and sick or cries. Sadly, alcohol is the worst of all drugs because it's so common and allows you to more easily maintain a cycle of denying your emotions (usually to work a shitty job) and then unlock them with alcohol (partying in the weekend or drinking with mates) without ever actually changing your life for the better.

•Caffeine unlockes your natural energy and drive. This is the drive you naturally have unlimited access to if you were doing something you enjoyed in the first place. If you remember, as a kid, especially when playing sports: you had unlimited access to this energy. This easily gets destroyed by forcing yourself to have drive for things you don't really want like money or success, or even competition with one another. •MDMA unlocks your natural love and joy. Few will remember experiencing this feeling without drugs because it is something you would have likely only felt at birth. It is the connection with God, yourself or your soulmate and often turns sexual because the feeling is meant to normally be felt in a union with your soulmate, not at festivals with random people you don't know nor have any connection to. Few will remember having actually experienced it without drugs because it is one of the first to go when you are born. This is because society and your parents expect you to behave in such a wildly different way to the way you were made to be that it must go unless you fight against the feelings given to you which is very difficult when you are very young and everyone around you is very large. Other people still experience the feelings of other drugs without them because they are more easily accepted in society i.e. drive to pursue something, or creativity, or socializing: there are many people who can seem like the are drunk, on caffeine, or on weed without actually ever being on those drugs because they are accessing those emotions.

•Weed unlocks mostly creative energies. I find it depends on the strain, but nothing that can't also be unlocked by doing an art you love and immerse yourself in. It also relaxes, clears your mind to help you connect with ideas, and helps you connect with sexual energies as many drugs do. •Opiates put you on a higher plane that takes you out of your internal pain and relaxes you (neurotransmitters are just a function, not a cause of this). All drugs do this, but opiates seem to only do this. You will find this feeling to some degree with most drugs--a sense of extacy is actually how you're normally supposed to feel: completely devoid of internal pain. That's why you will notice, coming down, you can feel how you actually feel all the time--which is often quite painful (because of held on emotions that cause stress within the body). •LSD, I find, helps me unlock a childish energy or a more natural personality of myself. It allows me to connect with the world if I were still a child and find a Matilda like fun and view of everything. •Ayahuasca helps me connect with more medium energies: I have definitely connected to spirits on it.

Many also unlock your natural sexual energy because all of these energies are to some degree sexual. Connection with God and your soulmate is a sexual connection: this just means a pure connection that gives and takes simultaneously: it is a sharing of feelings and as drugs heighten your ability to give and accept emotion the sexuality obviously increases.

Ultimately, while you may love drugs, you actually just love the natural feelings and emotions in-built into your soul. Unfortunately we live in a world devoid of love, passion, and creativity--largely in place of success and achievement. In fact, many people's happiness is simply founded on how others perceive them, rather than anything they've actually ever done in their life. You need only turn on reality TV to see this. I am not saying I am better than you as I too used to use drugs a lot. But I am now aware that the feelings they allow me to access are innate. I've started writing again, something I did as a child, and it has allowed me to unlock higher levels of creativity than many of the drugs I once took did.

What's even worse about all of this is the likelihood that the people in control of society are intentionally forcing society to maintain this unloving behavior to keep people in slavery so they are forced to use drugs and ignore their soul for the gratification of the evil spirits manipulating them.

I'm also not saying drugs are bad: drugs have helped me open up to my natural emotions and allowed me insight. However, simply crying, experiencing your natural emotions, and forming a relationship with God allows you to do this more sustainably all whilst actually removing your negative emotions that cause you to need drugs in the first place.

Just wanted to throw out that DMT seems to be quite a wonderful and therapeutic drug for me personally. One use of it can elevate my consciousness far past the initial experience. I'm not quite sure emotional therapy is capable of changing things on any large level without incorporating drugs into it, especially for those that have an innate attraction to drugs. Many members of our society really could use a kick in the ass that is Dmt.

Emotional clearing is just like DMT: until you've done it and experienced it for yourself you will never know what is really capable of doing to you. I could go on and on about the transcendental experiences I've had as a result of simply crying, but instead I will leave this resource that helped me:

https://www.youtube.com/user/WizardShak

I will state though that when they talk about soulmates I did have an emotional experience that did lead me to find my soulmate as well as passions God gave me.

The truth is that any drug that can give you anything can be done through emotional clearing. Even DMT--you can visit those dimensions through advanced lucid dreaming.

I also just want to quickly say that you, as a drug user--especially DMT, must know it isn't the drug that does anything. It just transports you to somewhere that actually exists. There is nothing in the drug itself, it just interacts with your brain in a certain way to either detune from your body or to open up certain internal emotions. With emotional therapy you can remove a lot of the reasons that you aren't just connected with these feelings 24/7.

Also, an innate attraction for drugs is a desire for change. If you didn't want change why would you take the drug? If you were experiencing pure bliss, why would you take ecstacy? You're already there right? So attraction to drugs is a sign you are unhappy or looking for something more. Emotional therapy is perfect for these people because at least they are on the verge of looking at a real change in their life. The problem with drugs is it allows people to experience what actual change is like without ever doing it. This is why drugs are so addictive, and why people get so addicted for so long: it allows them to basically stagnate. It gives them the illussion of going one way while they continue to go another. The unemployed dope fiend can still feel like he's on top of the world when he's being crushed beneath it.

Working at the CIA is the closest you can get in reality to work at Aperture Science. They seem to have an endless budget, no accountability and not a shred of sense.

I've experiments to run. There is research to be done. On the people who are still alive.

The CIA

We do what we must, because, we can
For the good of all of us
except the ones who are dead.

But there's no sense crying over every mistake
You just keep on trying until you run out of cake!
And the science gets done
and you make a neat gun
For the people who are still alive.

Bravo, sir.

i

Vault-tec is what comes to mind when experimenting on a population. But I would love to hear who you would think Vault-tec would be more relatable to

FEMA obviously

FEMA trailers after Hurricanes with various chemicals inside that are undetectable with hidden cameras watching you.

IIRC Vault tec was run by the ultra rich as a way to gain scientific information that would help them survive after they left Earth in their spaceship. I'm not sure what the real life equivalent would be, maybe a kind of Bilderberg-esque secret coalition among the rich and powerful?

Aperture was more of a goofball company

So half of the CIA's VC portfolio?

I imagine American Dad gets life at the CIA pretty close. It's mostly fucking around and dealing with their own departments' agendas, occasionally coming together to collect spy data, and from time to time somebody decides to play with the technology in their lab for shits and giggles and high jinks occur.

How do you think drugs get into this country? No one seems to ask how all of this heroin is making it into the country... How does the CIA find their black ops? The CIA and DEA are the biggest cartel. They created the opiate epidemic. DEA pushed easy prescribing of opioid drugs to get everyone hooked, then cut everyone off so everyone would switch to heroin. They went from only getting 20% profit off pharmaceuticals to getting 85% profit.

The CIA got the black ghettos hooked on crack in the 80's, but what's even more lucrative? Pharmaceutical use spans socio-economic demographics of all.... Get them all hooked and you have a proverbial cash cow...

They use street drugs to destroy poor communities and pharmaceuticals to destroy the working class.

Isn't it weird that fentanyl is suddenly a thing?

It takes serious science to make fentanyl. Either somebody sold it to the dealers who are cutting it into their horse supply or the supply was sabotaged. Drug dealers aren't moral by any means but they are good businessmen and adulterating a product is a good way to lose clientele.

Maybe I'm naive but ever since the story popped up it's felt wrong, and it seems to me that it's a bit convenient that stronger opioids ended up in heroin all the sudden. It swooped in like a hero and killed thousands of lowest-caste Americans. Somebody won here.

Fentanyl was inevitable; doesn't take THAT much serious science to synthesize, and analogues can be ordered directly from various Chinese labs

Since the government has some control over the heroin supply it seems quite plausible that they would taint the supply in America to do away with "undesirables". While it is easy to get Fent and it's analogs, it does seem like a bad business strategy to kill off your customers. There is a deeper intention here. This shit is prolific, it's all across America at this point, so it makes some sense that it is being poisoned at one of the first points of source.

Yeah, exactly. I'm not sure how easy it is to get, but I bet the Silk Road helps.

You do realize that silk road doesnt exist and the analogy of silk road basically just means any of the vast amount of deep web drug sites. Right?

You realise most Hoovers aren't made by Hoover?

Easy population control, maybe they were even trying to see if they could take out specific people don't look at things only way one.

not bad business- fent is cheap and potent which is great for business... even if heads bitch about fent, plenty still eat it up. If someone dies, plenty will go looking for that

Nah, if anything they can make use of all the addicts for man power that will do just about anything for a fix.

I have the urge to say the Mexicans. Not only do they get to sell drugs but I could see them sending in illegals to work on peoples farms or they will kill their families blackmailing them to do it or something.

This seems sort of oblique but I can see the rationalization.

What bothers me with border control isn't the people coming in as much as the contraband. I'm all for 100% legal drugs (all drugs), but that comes with the caveat of it being made in the USA. For me this matters because American cannabis is some of the best anymore where it's been legalized. I'd bet some of the work coming out of legal states is as well grown as Amsterdam.

Sometimes you just take a chance on an idea. Personally legalization of drugs should end with pot since all the ones I can think of have a high risk of overdose. I just don't think recreational heroine (maybe for medication) is a good idea.

If heroin was legalized, it could be sold in exact doses, premixed and sterile, with syringes and needles and iso wipes as part of the deal. It would be pure and unadulterated.

I've always been of the mentality that we can already see the negatives of these drugs. Most people want to avoid the negative consequences (hell, there are people who don't smoke pot or drink simply because they don't want it in their life). The people who we want around will be smart enough to either a) not use, or b) use responsibly. I know alcohol is a very prime example of this not working but I have another spiel about alcohol that's too long for this post.

I'm more open to that idea. With the exception of syringes. It would need some other method of delivery to help avoid people shooting up air bubbles. Maybe like those prefilled insulin pens?

Hate to call you out and I;m sure I agree with your general sentiment, but fentanyl, carfentanyl, and other incredibly potent opiates are getting cut into street heroin because of the low cost of production and remarkably high return if diluted accurately.

That would be the story.

I'm not sure I believe it though. That seems like a whole lot of work. If you're already selling heroin, why would you boost the heroin with fentanyl? I can understand cutting fentanyl and selling it as heroin but that would be obvious based upon the appearance of the cutting agent. But adding more drugs to your existing drugs to make them sell better seems like a lot more work than the return would suggest. I suppose it could be cut under the assumption that the base heroin sucks and the fentanyl makes up for lack of purity or something but on a massive scale you'd probably make more doing a purification than cutting in synthetics.

I'm gonna respectfully disagree with your entire comment, but would appreciate any other organic chemists chiming in on the matter. Check this equianalgesic chart out and make sure to look at the minimal structural differences between these analogs.. Carfentanil is anywhere from 10,000 to 100,000 times stronger than morphine and yet is nearly just as easy to synthesize. There is a very clear-cut reason for why people will buy carfentanil, an opioid analgesic exactly like heroin and morphine but tens of thousands o times more potent, to cut into fillers and sell as heroin. Carfentanil is currently being sold for about $3,700 per kilo (2.2 POUNDS) while heroin is imported from pakistan for around $2,600 per kilo. But remember, carfentanil does the exact same thin, costs only 1.5x as much, but is tens of thousands of times more potent which means it can be cut and sold for prices magnitudes higher than heroin/morphine are being sold for currently.

Not a chemist but that makes sense

Personally carfentanyl reaks of the government killing off undesirables. I can understand cutting h with fentanyl cuz it's cheap and stretches product and profit out. Mcg is easier to dilute and not kill anyone... Carfentanyl on the other hand is too dangerous to use as a cutting agent. It makes everyone fall out.... A legit drug dealer doesn't want to kill his client base off...

I think you're really underestimating how easy it is to manipulate chemical structures and produce analogs that bind well-near irreversibly to μ opioid receptors. Carfentanil was synthesized by a team of chemists in Belgium who were looking for a potent opioid analgesic to tranquilize very large animals like elephants and hippos. And I do agree that for the average dope cutter, chopping up carfentanil will not end well for him. However, There are many heroin dealers that know how to use nitrile gloves and organic respirators. If you have any evidence of government agencies ordering or using carfentanil against "undesirables" please send it my way through either a comment or a PM. I'm always willing to dig through any evidence I can find!

It's not hard to connect a and b... As I said, the nigga in the hood slanging dope doesn't want to kill off his client base... Sure they may have fucked up once ordering carfent to cut his dope once... But there's been numerous waves of Carfentanyl now... Niggas are down to do 10years fed time for heroin, no one wants to do a life sentence.. The Fed's and state people give dealers murder charges now if they can prove their dope killed someone... Also notice that no one has been arrested for, carfentanyl?there's been busts for fentanyl and analogues like furylfentanyl but no one has been busted for carfent which is what is killing so many people... Fentanyl and furylfentnyl are super easy to volumetrically dilute... Carfent is literally the tip of a needle to OD off of nearly making it impossible to use to cut...

Not to mention it is schedule II... Meaning highly regulated and you cannot import it like you can with the grey area fentanyl analogues that really aren't scheduled thus aren't totally illegal (yeah they could charge you under the analogue act but that is unlikely)... Which means that whoever is actually bringing the carfentany in to cut the dope has legal standing (IE a DEA license to obtain/import it)

it can be cut and sold for prices magnitudes higher than heroin/morphine are being sold for currently.

The issue is measuring it correctly before cutting. A gram of fentanyl is equivalent to 10,000 doses at 100ug. It seems like a fundamental discount of what the drug is, what it does, how dangerous it is, and the equipment required to cut correctly.

dulterating a product is a good way to lose clientele.

When it comes to junkies they don't know or care what their crack is cut with.

The reason fentanyl ends up in heroin batches is because dealers who sell heroin know that if someone dies from their product, every other customer see's it as some incredible stuff. So force an overdose with 1 person, and triple your sales.

Might seem dumb but why would the want to get rid of these classes?

Read your history about the Progressive Era and think about the Great Depression. The United States working class was seriously thinking turning the US into a socialist country started by a lot of religious and family oriented values. The working class wasn't actually reading Marx or anybody like that.

But, it wasn't a Judeo-Marxist Socialism, but more of rough Protestant/Catholic-Union worker socialism that was guided by having a man earning enough of what he produced to take care of his family. It was guided by more religious and family-oriented principles than anything. It's natural to look at the wealth disparity and want to take a better cut because the working class does the daily work.

They have to be propagandized, distracted, or destroyed abroad and at home because otherwise the rich don't get to keep their property and the proceeds. The CIA has always worked for American corporate interests, first and foremost. What's good for the rich is good for the poor because they're both American right? "Trickle down economics" basically encapsulates the thinking that the average worker doesn't know what's good for them or the country, but the rich do.

Lower the population.. easier to manage and control, lowers probability of an uprising or large scale disobedience

The CIA did not create the opiate epidemic. Doctors prescribing opiates for nearly any pain caused it and the statistics blatantly prove this, most people start on legally prescribed painkillers. Every single opiate addict and former started this way, they weren't getting CIA funded heroin lol. India grows it legally for pharma companies anyway. Perhaps they're more responsible for the cheap prices of the stuff and high quality we see, but it seems like the Chinese are the ones adding the super strong additives.

Did you not read what I wrote? Yes it was doctors... But the DEA prescribing guidelines changed to allow the over prescribing of opiates. Which got millions hooked. CIA then pushed the DEA to crack down on prescriptions, thus cutting people off and forcing millions to switch to heroin, thus directly funding the CIA....

Well you kind of jump around and lump the CIA and DEA together. And the DEA has actually been pretty hands off in how physicians prescribe them, because they aren't doctors. I have friends who deal with severe pain who have problems getting their meds. The DEA made it tougher for people to get medications, not easier. But if you could show me some DEA memos or something that supports your claim, I'd definitely like to read it, perhaps I'm mistaken but I was having a very tough time finding something to support that claim.

The cia and dea ate each hand of the government. One creates a problem and the other one "solves it". Because school and potholes are not breadmakers.

You're just repeating what he originally said in regards to the DEA making it very difficult to get pain 'medication' which is why heroin is such a problem these days.

In the 90's they pushed prescribed opiates as the answer to all pain, whether acute or chronic. You could literally get a script of OxyContin for a sprained ankle because it was pushed as being "non-addictive" and safe.... We know how that turned out.

The DEA controls how medications are prescribed through guidelines. They made pain a vital sign, meaning if you complained of pain they HAD to treat the pain before actually fixing whatever was causing the pain.

Here is a MSM article on the "deal" the DEA made with the Sinaloa Cartel... If you think the deal only pertained to "looking the other way in exchange for information on rival cartels" you are very naive. This is just the tip of the iceberg. This is how the CIA makes money for its Black ops. The CIA sold crack cocaine in the 80's to find their operations... Its not a stretch of the imagination that they would do the same with heroin now, it's even more lucrative and farther reaching than crack...

Not to mention Gary Webb was assasinated for blowing the lid on the CIA's crack op....

MSM article about "DEA Sinaloa Deal": http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-government-and-the-sinaloa-cartel-2014-1

MSM article about CIA Crack Dealing: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/5961748

There was a drive in the 90's to add pain as the 5th vital sign. It was based on misinformation about risks of addiction. It was minimized. The Joint Commission which gives hospitals accreditation still takes the stance that if patients must report adequate pain management and hospitals still do the pain scale with each set of vitals. On top of this compensation of hospitals from Medicare is directly linked through a survey which gives you an HCAHPS survey. If you get a lower score you get less money. One of the items on the survey is the question: Is your pain controlled well?

So doctors have financial incentive to game the scores. But, most of it is actually hospital driven not doctor driven.

AMA recommended abandoning assessing for pain with each set of vitals.

Of course all of this Pharmaceutical company driven policy.

https://archive.fo/VmtHT

https://nonprofitquarterly.org/2016/06/21/american-medical-association-says-pain-shouldnt-be-the-fifth-vital-sign/

This is interesting. I'm kind of conflicted on how I feel about this. I don't believe the profit incentive can be fully cut out of the equation (ultimately) in regards to healthcare, or that it's inherently bad, yet it can very easily without strict oversight produce problems like the opiate epidemic. For those with severe pain, it really is a pain in the ass and beyond stressful trying to get medicine, having doctors doubt you or say you're lying, I really empathize with those people but at the same time those doctors, hospitals, and pharma companies and possibly the CIA/DEA played a role in this epidemic. We're ~100 years overdue for a complete overhaul of the drug regulatory departments. The DEA is the first to go in my book.

This is interesting. I'm kind of conflicted on how I feel about this.

There is a real dilemma. Pain was being severely under treated in emergency departments. But, now for example, if your vitals are done you get asked for a pain score 1-10. The goal is 0. So if you say your pain is a 3 you get your pain treated. In a hospital unit where your vitals are taken every 4 hours that would mean you get a pain pill every 4 hours. There is a general opinion that we should move away from this type of pain management goal and instead develop tools that help us assess whether or not pain gets in the way of activities of daily life or life satisfaction etc. Balance has to be restored to the judgment of healthcare providers a little bit. The algorithmic approach of - you say pain level is 8 while laughing and you receive 2 pills of Percocet is not working.

If you believe the Air America conspiracy the CIA did indeed create an opiate addiction problem in America. You're just the latest and most numerous generation in an addiction problem in America that has lasted 50 years. That is if you believe it.

China does not produce opium for American consumption, nor does it produce opiates for Americans. These drugs are American made from opium supplied primarily from India, according to the DEA.

Yeah I said the opiates we consume are made in India in my comment, and that China was responsible for producing the cheap synthetic fentanyl-esque opiates heroin is being laced with currently.

Yeah I said the opiates we consume are made in India in my comment

It's raw material that is imported. America does not import any finished drugs that include controlled substances.

Canada can't sell drugs in America (they've tried). China certainly isn't doing it. Even your synthetics are American made. All those companies are AMERICAN. It's Bayer and Johnson & Johnson that is getting you addicted to opiates, not Wang Chung Pharmaceutics. American drug companies lobby heavily to keep it this way and have successfully fought to keep the importation market out for years.

Yeah I'm sorry, I should've specified because I meant what you were saying, the raw material is imported. I'm pretty sure though the carfentanyl being put into heroin is made in china though. But I'd have to fact check that. Other than that, I'm in agreement with you. Would you say the inability to sell other medicines like Canadian only helps pharma companies or is there some benefit to the consumer?

All good on the beginning. I've just never heard of China (or any Asian nation) selling opiates to the west on the open market at all. According to Wikipedia China has no regulatory controls on the drug. I doubt there is a contract between a US and Chinese corporation importing it but you can sure as hell get Chinese carfentanyl over the internet.

Would you say the inability to sell other medicines like Canadian only helps pharma companies or is there some benefit to the consumer?

It's a benefit to big pharma companies though the laws were first implemented years ago for purity reasons. This does not prevent foreign drug companies from operating in America. It only restricts certain controlled drugs. Today there is a huge prescription mail order drug market between Canada and a handful of European nations, and America. It would be legal but for the fact that it is illegal to fill the prescription you got in New York in Scotland and have them mail it back to you. One apparent benefit of Bush fleecing the postal service is that they no longer care about searching packages so much. Of course the media hype of Granny illegally buying her Tylenol 3's online from Canada died out years ago.

Chinese.....please. It's the Russians. Have you hear of the Krodile shit.... I think that started in Russia.

85% seems very high. It would realistically be like 30%. The price of drugs skyrockets with every move down the supply chain. I.e. drug manufacturers get 100$ for product that's eventually sold for $400 on the street.

Though I never had any doubt this was the case, your comment is what fully red-pilled me.

We went to war in Afghanistan and street H spikes. Now it's the fentynal being made in china. The world is run by gangs, legit and not. Where there is an addictive market, there will be supply one way or another. The DEA seems pretty open about it https://www.deamuseum.org/ccp/opium/production-distribution.html

CC&P are natures gifts. Man makes cocaine and crack and heroin from them. That's the real problem.

Unless americans indavidualy just quit the drugs

Who do you think Satoshi Nakamoto is?

Must be pretty cool having thousands of computers spitting out encryption code guesses. Brute force attacks probably don't take that long.

And they spray the food with chemicals to put you in pain, so you'll buy the drugs.

Blaming the CIA for conspiring to cause drug epidemics is a sensational argument, but it is factually wrong and distracts people from the underlying societal problems which lead to addiction. Just like how Trump was sold to working class Americans by blaming foreigners and "globalists" for the decline of middle/working-class America.

Seems like they have a rule that exempts them from Constitutional laws, to uphold the Constitution.

They didn't just spray LSD over France they also sprayed chemicals and micro-oganisms over much of Great Britain and at least 239 locations in the U.S.A.

When wondering about the chemtrail-phenomenon and what possible purposes it may serve (releasing substances on the public, changing the climate, altering the atmospheric stability or maybe all of those and more together) it seems a bit unlikely that TPTB would poison the air they and their children have to breath themselves.

Apparently it is no secret though and has already been reported more than 20 years ago, that the air above the U.S. and GB has been poisoned for decades in secret military trials. According to the Guardian and the New York Times millions of Americans and Britons have been used as human guinea pigs, to test certain chemicals, micro organisms and fungi.

The information that has partially been made available due to the freedom of information act (for the U.S. data) only describes the military activity until 1979, but why would they just stop their experiments there, what did they actually find out in their trials and how did they continue after 1979?

This is only the information that has been made available for the public, it is quite possible that they have sprayed more substances over more locations.

Millions of people being sprayed with chemicals and micro-organisms, all of this reported by the MSM, why has this not become a big scandal?

Maybe because the reports are referencing to trials, that had been conducted several decades before the articles appeared. To long ago to be relevant? Or maybe the MSM just didn't repeat the story often enough. If the MSM want a story to gain traction, they usually are echoing it again and again and again.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2002/apr/21/uk.medicalscience

Much of Britain was exposed to bacteria sprayed in secret trials

The Ministry of Defence turned large parts of the country into a giant laboratory to conduct a series of secret germ warfare tests on the public.

A government report just released provides for the first time a comprehensive official history of Britain's biological weapons trials between 1940 and 1979.

Many of these tests involved releasing potentially dangerous chemicals and micro-organisms over vast swaths of the population without the public being told.

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/25/opinion/the-worry-germ-warfare-the-target-us.html

The Army released an organism called Aspergillus fumigatus at the Norfolk Naval Supply Center because most workers were black; for some reason, the testers imagined an enemy might target the blacks at military bases. "Since Negroes are more susceptible to coccidioides than are whites," a report said, "this fungus disease was simulated by using Aspergillus fumigatus." Aspergillus, further, was known to cause lethal infections.

In 1949, and for 20 years afterward, the Army released bacteria among millions of unsuspecting people. At hearings in 1977, Pentagon witnesses acknowledged that bacteria and chemical particles were sprayed over San Francisco, St. Louis, Minneapolis and 236 other populated locations.

Also spayed agent orange over CFB Gagetown in New Brunswick.

I wouldn't be surprised if H1N1 and those other diseases were intentionally released to test the spread of highly infectious disease. It was like they couldn't stop touting the numbers, which had to be coming from somewhere (CDC). H1N1 also had an advantage in that it was both aggressive, long-term, and very obvious with it's symptoms. It also killed a lot of people, which for the flu is pretty impressive. To me it was a test of what percentage of the population might survive something much more severe.

More chemtrail facts:

• During the 1950s and '60s, the U.S. Army dusted chosen American cities from coast to coast with a fine powder of a fluorescent, potentially toxic chemical. And now one scientist says, at least in the case of St. Louis, that powder may have contained radioactive material.

• Mystery Radar Blob Reveals Odd Man-Made Phenomenon- "Officially, Redstone Arsenal disclosed that it was a military test using RR-188 military chaff," Havin said, referring to aircraft used to spread a cloud of aluminum-coated silica in the case of RR-188.

• Project 112

• Operation Popeye was used to induce rain and extend the East Asian Monsoon season in support of U.S. government efforts related to the War in Southeast Asia. The operation seeded clouds with both silver iodide and lead iodide, resulting in the targeted areas seeing an extension of the monsoon period by an average of 30 to 45 days.

• Project Stormfury was an attempt to weaken tropical cyclones by flying aircraft into them and seeding with silver iodide. The project was run by the United States Government from 1962 to 1983.

• RAF rainmakers 'caused 1952 flood'

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Big_Buzz

I personally think the typical chemtrail theory (that many or most contrails are secretly chemtrails) is disinformation that was intentionally spread to discredit real reports of chemtrails. By pushing so many false accusations of chemtrailing, the real ones get lost in the noise.

it seems a bit unlikely that TPTB would poison the air they and their children have to breath themselves.

Who says their breathing the same air we do? The world is much stranger that what it seems on the surface.

Good point

Cave Johnson definitely runs the CIA. I think that much is beyond dispute

Shit that'd be fun if a good portion didn't kill people or fuck 'em up for life.

They seem to have an endless budget, no accountability and not a shred of sense.

"... it was fun, fun, fun. Where else could a red-blooded American boy lie, kill, cheat, steal, rape and pillage with the sanction and bidding of the All-highest?"

• George Hunter White, who oversaw drug experiments for the CIA as part of Operation Midnight Climax

you forgot to add the bit about a lack of any ethics

They came to my school to recruit. Considered it for a while actually because it seemed like it could be interesting as I graduated with a degree in engineering. But I don't want the government that intertwined with my life, so I decided against it.

Can confirm.

Source: I have watched american dad.

Or decency.

It's kind of entertaining how accurate your comment makes American Dad

I'm going to watch it then, might as well at least get some laughs out of this insanity.

And the morality of a psychopath

Its so departmentalized at least 90% of those working for the CIA dont experience this at all. Source: friend got a job there out of college

I like the reference, very nice.

Awesome sources for all of that.

Nope. And the book he pulls this event from mentions that some theorists "think" that the CIA did this, but the results of the investigation are consistent with ergon poisoning

Ergot* which is akin to a precursor to lsd.

Yeah, but we are assuming the CIA made their LSD correctly and didn't poison people with ergot. They definitely didn't, because this didn't happen.

Agreed, I think it's more likely the Ergot was from moldy bread, rather than CIA spraying lsd on a town.

In the article it states that he found this out from a declassified report; we the public should be able to see that right? Since its declassified. Though I can't find any legitimate report that supports this.

This was all disclosed in the massive discovery of secret documents that were supposed to be destroyed but a rogue worker hid 30,000 CIA files so that the truth could come to light. The Freedom of Information Act led to the discovery of Project MK Ultra, a top-secret, extremely illegal CIA experiment where it did far worse than what happened here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

We weren't even supposed to know that this terrible program took place but whistleblowers who came before us allowed this to be known. The CIA is the biggest purveyor of violence and terrorism in the world. MLK Jr. said it himself.

I don't think the MKUltra documents disclose anything about spraying LSD on a town in France.

Not this specific incident but incidents of this magnitude and even worse were disclosed by those documents. My point was that the CIA has perpetrated far worse acts than what happened in France. This is /r/conspiracy. You are supposed to be open minded. We'll probably never find out if the CIA actually perpetrated this experiment on the town, but it isn't outside of their scope of terrible actions.

Right, I get that. It's just when you say

This was all disclosed in the massive discovery of secret documents

it sounds like you're saying OP's claim shows up in those documents.

I see what you're saying now. I'll fix up my comment.

Mkultra happened, you dont think they could spray a city with lsd? Thats too far out there after mkultra?

That's not what I said. I said I don't think the MKUltra documents mentioned OP's claim specifically.

We were never supposed to know about mkUltra, records that were supposed to be destroyed. You cant open your mind for just a second, seeing what we know to think that spraying a city with lsd wouldnt be in their range of horrible acts?

I'm not saying the CIA did or didn't spray a town in France with LSD.

I'm not saying I couldn't imagine the CIA doing something that extreme.

I am saying whether they did it or not, nothing is mentioned in the MKUltra documents about any town in France being sprayed with any substance.

Yes, the documents we have about mkultra dont mention it. Directly from a time when we know they destroyed documents because what we have was saved from that fate by pure luck.

This was what Stranger Things was loosely based on. As well as the Montauk Project

I mean, the CIA definitely did give unsuspecting people LSD, that much is proven:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

Whether they did it in France, who knows, but they did it.

Oh trust me I know, but I was critiqing his post. Need to have an etiquette here since more and more eyes are on conspiracy theorists these days.

We need to dress our best.

To be fair, there was a French town that experienced mass hallucinations during the time of MKUltra, but there's been no proven link to the CIA and the accepted theory is grain poisoning. Here's a link (sorry for mobile link) to the wiki page.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-Esprit_mass_poisoning

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-Esprit_mass_poisoning

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 61192}

100% this, even Truman thought they have to much power.

Stopped reading at "Denace."

Yea clearly he meant Dennis the Mennis

Stanis the Manice?

Lol right? It's like I suddenly realized I was just reading a self post without sources by some dude on /r/conspiracy.

But the "Denace" part was the most telling, FAKE NEWS

Russian trolls not fake new comrade. Siberia is beautiful this time of year, come visit. It looks like Russian psywar group is ramping up brainwashing.

Ugh...ok?

Or maybe 99% people here are legit, disillusioned Americans.

Oh wait, I forgot - the only reason someone could have anti-American/CIA sentiment is due to Russian Shills.

Lol right? We all know everyone loved America and the CIA before those rascal Russian trolls came about in 2016!

u/FloodMoose you willfully ignorant dumbass

Look, the entire CIA is not to be grouped with the dark arms of the CIA. In not explaining any more than that. trumpTRUMP!

In all fairness, I would totally watch a show about "denace the menace with machine guns".

That being said, OP clearly isn't all there.

Bullshit, you at least got to menace.

Lol blackmailed Trump. Are you guys this gullible? You think Trump would've became President if he wasn't ALREADY part of them?

Trump has and always will be a sellout how do you go to friends with someone to bitter enemies (Clinton and Trump) if it's not real?

You've been banned from r/TheDonald

Exactly. Trump went from playing golf with the clintons, defending the clintons since the Lewinsky scandal, literally endorsing an Obama Clinton ticket in 08, endorsing a Clinton presidency in 2011, to chanting lock her up outta no where. Back to saying she was a great public servant and he won't pursue charges. If Trump was not part of them, then he wouldn't have become president.

I think he had a change of heart. What caused it? Who knows but I do think it had something to do with his wife being an influence, as well as seeing first hand some of the shenanigans that were going on with his supposed "friends". A certain plane going to a certain island for example.

wow how did alternatively smrt people fall for that??

alternatively smrt people

Not sure if you meant relatively, but yours still fits.

alternative facts joke

It was Clinton's turn. Trump's presidency was definitely not "according to plan."

What if the failed coup and the strengthening of central authority in Turkey was actually the real intention of the CIA, assuming they were involved in it?

Agree with you there. Erdogan got even more powerful after the coup.

What if that was the real intention of the lizard people, assuming they were involved with it?

God, I shouldn't be surprised but the speculation on this sub is horrendous. People just make shit up to fit their beliefs with not even a shred of evidence or logic.

In the past when the CIA participated in coups, it was to serve American interests. This much was clear by who they were deposing and who they were propping up. How does turning Turkey from a democracy into a Russia-friendly dictatorship serve our interests?

I'm sure we have intelligence resources in all NATO member countries, especially when we have the all important airbase in Turkey. I was definitely speculating, wasn't trying to say the CIA did it. I don't know if I have a running narrative that made my comment useful to that end. But I think people do either hate the CIA or love the CIA with no in between.

I would happily volunteer to have lsd sprayed all over myself. Have had nothing but amazing experiences everytime. Bring it on

Imagine being in that town, and suddenly you're high as fuck. Depending on your level of chill, you would either go with it and enjoy, or you would freak the fuck out. I'm thinking most did the latter.

I would imagine so. It's a much different thing when you knowingly take part, versus all of a sudden tripping balls with no idea why or what's happening.

I would think that I was losing my mind

Unless you've already done LSD. But I'm betting these people never had.

Here is an article about ergot poisoning in a small town in France too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1951_Pont-Saint-Esprit_mass_poisoning

I think they say those were related.

How did a few people die? Source? Lsd doesn't generally lead to death. Though there was that one guy that "jumped" out of a many storied building on lsd while in a room of CIA agents.

LSD isn't toxic - that's why it's said it does not cause any deaths by its toxicity. LSD induced heart attacks and seizures can occur, and people can die by these, and they do.

It's impossible to die from LSD (getting poisoned by it), but it's not impossible to die by its effects.

Helicopters?

This trope is tired. Come up with a better way to make people not trust this sub and other conspiracy theories please.

Copter

"Time to close them down". Just as it's some democracy behind it. It's not. It's pure domination.

Anyone else suddenly seeing military helicopters flying overhead for the first time? I remember in 1990 in the buildup to Papa Bush's Desert Storm incursion into Kuwait to fight Iraqi troops (remember Papa Bush never did invade Iraq, just entered Kuwait) that I'd see day after day lots of military truck traffic on South Kingshighway as I would drive to Forest Park and Washington University's library.

Well, I'm not going to bother with the rest--because who has time--but this is factually incorrect. Operation Desert Storm, which was the operational name for the invasion of Iraq in the first Gulf War, took place 17 January – 28 February 1991. George HW Bush was president from January 20, 1989 – January 20, 1993.

Look it up.

If I recollect this right they did it to kill an ex cia chemist who created LSD, he lived in the town and mysteriously died falling out the window of his home.

You aren't recalling correctly. The chemist who invented LSD wasn't killed by the CIA and the "falling out of a window" story sounds like a confusion between the death of Frank Olson, the CIA agent, and the death of Art Linkletter's wife.

Hmm going to have to go back and look, I remember it as the village was loaded up with LSD in the bread and water so they could get to the chemist

Yea! I found it, look up CIA agent Frank Olson's murder! He was a biochemist who had been working for the CIA, consequently he fell from his window later after the bread incident, that was the part I got incorrect. He was the whistleblower for the incident because he overheard that they dosed the town.

Albert Hoffman synthesized lsd, he was not killed by the cia.

Right this was a biochemist who worked on LSD for the CIA like I stated after.

The French town violated the NAP, so it's all cool.

The paranoia is strong with this one.

PSA: you might want to check for a carbon dioxide leak in your house.

http://i.imgur.com/OQ1mUnA.jpg

I'm well aware of that project. Irregardless, the op writes in a disjointed manner, with multiple thoughts flowing together, when they really shouldn't. It comes across as unhinged. If people want to be believed when they are talking about conspiracies, they need to be coherent and on point, or else they are dismissed immediately along with their message.

Irregardless.

could not agree more. but what can we do? every time we turn around, revelations about the CIA suggest it is possibly the most evil organization ever to exist. What can we actually DO to tame this beast?

CIA please spray LSD over my house, thanks.

Spray lsd over my house please

send address plz will have da choppa on its way

at this point i feel the real conspiracy is the constant attempt to spread distrust of government agencies and officials.

The CIA is the most successful drug dealer in contemporary world history.

RIP Michael Ruppert :(

It wouldn't be r/conspiracy if it wasn't shilling for Trump somehow, would it?

Junta? Are you Indian?

I've never once seen military helicopters flying around. Maybe once every 2 to 6 months,

So you've seen it between 50 & 130 times.

What the fuck is a Denace?

Dennis the Menace. Old comic.

Kek. Free LSD. I bet the people in that town suddenly became artistic and poetic.

Dumb, dumbs, thousands of years of psychedelic use through out the entire planet... All they had to do, is go speak to a shaman... It probably wasn't even real LSD, as LSD is a psychedelic... Psychedelics are some of the safest drugs, that do the least harm.

Looks like I'm going back to 1950s France.

They also gave it to unsuspecting members of their own organization and one of them jumped out a window.

Got a source on all of that?

Bro Johnny Potash told me.

I smoked pot with Johnny Potash. It was Johnny Potash, and Sloan Kettering, and they were blazin that shit up everyday.

I'm too lazy to get a link, but I saw a document about it on Wikileaks

Cool, so in the future we'll just link to this comment when people ask for a source.

They're like Denace the Menace only they have machine guns.

This is all the proof I need.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7415082/French-bread-spiked-with-LSD-in-CIA-experiment.html

This is about bread, the post is about arisol.

Yes, I know.

Just making sure.

This got cross posted to TIL about two hours ago. Any bets on how long til it's removed?

Aaaaaand it looks like it got removed. Can anyone find it on that sub now?

Yeah, probably because it's a complete load of garbage.

Or or or maybe, maybe just get them to stop doing questionable stuff and continue doing all the good stuff they're doing, and that we need them to do? I don't get why destroying them completely is the only answer. But them again this place has nothing but extremist alarmist trump supporters now and who needs logic right? Fuck moderation, me react on emotion!

how did the people die? i was under the assumption that LSD is not lethal.. though i could be mistaken

I can imagine people freaking out if they didn't know what was happening to them. There was probably mass panic.

LSD isn't toxic - that's why it's said it does not cause any deaths by its toxicity. LSD induced heart attacks and seizures can occur, and people can die by these, and they do. It's impossible to die from LSD (getting poisoned by it), but it's not impossible to die by its effects.

Helicopters and weird stuff: I live surrounded by missile silos and there is a command center very near my house, less than 1 mile from me. We see & hear weird stuff all the time but last week we woke up at 4:05 a.m. to the loudest rumbling noise we've ever heard/felt. The ground was vibrating. The windows were shaking. Sometimes there are low flying usaf planes/helicopters but this was different. We actually had a conversation quickly about north korea wondering if the shit hit the fan. The sky was clear. No clouds. No thunder. No lightening. We didn't see any blinking lights from planes/jet/helicopters. The rumbling stopped after about 5 minutes. We laid back down and it started again about 4:40. Last about 7 minutes. Other people in our small town who live 15 miles from us also heard/felt the noise/rumbling. Needless to say we are all a little unsettled.

[Citation Needed]

Disgusting. I'm fairly certain even some of the folks on this very sub have also been targeted by the CIA already and have had LSD sprayed on them. Some are probably on LSD right now. I know OP is definitely on LSD right now. For fuck's sake people, open your eyes before the CIA infects you too (although, don't open your eyes in the literal sense as aerosol - sprayed LSD could get right into your corneas).

LOL!! I can't stop laughing!!!

The can drop LSD over my town any day. lol

i pretty sure it was ergot poisoning they were sneaking into the food as well, not just LSD.

CIA, s'il-vous-plaît.. Je ne veux pas plus LSD.

Damn military helicopters were flying over my neighborhood today from 4-6 am. They got no respect I tell ya.

I stopped reading after OP theorizes that the "deep state" is making trump invade Syria 😂

The CIA and UK overthrew the elected leader of Iran in 1953 by hiring and bribing local thugs and gangs and Mafia-stuff to stage huge riots and protests in the streets, bussing people in etc.

It was their first attempt/experiment at regime change post-nuclear, and it has continued ever since.

You're from St. Louis, huh? I was wondering about those helicopters the other day, and I did see a convoy of military trucks on i-55 a couple weeks ago.

The people who were poisoned in France got it from bread infected with ergot. All the infected people ate bread from a baker who had gotten strange colored rye flower but used it anyways. Ergot is what is used to synthesize LSD

The quality of LSD rapidly decrease when exposed to any light or heat so I'm pretty sure this is bullshit

Not true. The quality decreases, but it takes ages. This is a common myth, a LSD paper with 100ug on it exposed to light all day long won't lose any noticeable amount of lsd on it for months or few years. With the heat, I agree.

Not true. I had a vial in my crazier days and put a blotter strip on my window sill and let it sit for a little over a week. It took about 4x as much compared to fresh out of the vial to really make me trip.

Wait, so you're saying you were attempting to lay your own blotters? Were you laying them out in the open? Do you realize that hotspots occur if you don't know what are you doing? Do you realize that letting a basically liquid LSD lay out in the open degrades it way more than already laid? Laying lsd is done in a black room with strict temperatures because in its liquid form it's way more prone to degrading if outside of the vial

Exactly, so that's why the liquid LSD allegedly sprayed on this town would have degraded at least somewhat.

Mate, it would be a matter of minutes to get onto "victims", not a matter of staying days on a surface in the daylight ... lsd wont degrade even slightly within 3 minutes

There are just too many variables for this to really be believable. If it is warm the LSD would degrade and if were cool the moisture would would be another factor.

Yea that's exactly what I was doing I wanted to see how much it would degrade.

Lol. Complete bullshit.

LSD has no side effects on the body. So, you can't die by consuming LSD. (Technically possible, but the required amount to overdose is pretty impossible to consume) LSD has only effects on the mind. And these effects are very instense.

Not true. LSD is a stimulant and affects your body. You can die from LSD induced heart attack. It's the toxic side of the drug that almost does not exist. You can die from a LSD induced seizure, or heart attack. Many people died, and there are cases of it even here on reddit.

LSD is not a stimulate. Don't spread misinformation.

psychonautwiki.org - LSD - physical effects

look this up please, thanks... LSD produces stimulation

definition of stimulant: an agent (as a drug) that produces a temporary increase of the functional activity or efficiency of an organism or any of its parts

also look this up. thanks for your time :)

Will you guys kiss already

Definitely is, try sleeping on LSD

What a load of codswallop.

Denace?

Fuck off comrade

on that day someone had an idea for a baguette sandwich that would bring world peace but she ended up in an orgy with the mimes in the park and forgot all about it--and here we are now

I wish OP had brought up https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra to back up this post. Instead people are casting this off as another /r/conspiracy post with no evidence. The CIA has done FAR WORSE than what happened to this town. A lot of it was done during Project MKUltra. They were attempting to mind control people with this. It's not fantasy, it's fucking facts. This happened and nothing has occurred since then that would cause the CIA to change their ways. The amount of people coming onto this sub to defend this organization is sickening. Disgusting.

We wouldn't even know about this terrible Project if it weren't for a whistleblower who decided not to follow the CIA Director's orders to destroy all of the files associated with Project MKUltra. 30,000 files are all we have on this completely illegal and immoral Project.

my kind of people

The CIA did a lot of shady chemical testing shit, that's been confirmed and proven:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unethical_human_experimentation_in_the_United_States

It's why I always try to take conspiracy theories seriously, no matter how crazy they seem. No, the fluffy white lines in the sky are not evidence of government planes spraying chemicals on people, but the idea isn't as far fetched as it sounds.

Read the top comment on that thread FFS, use a small bit of critical thinking.

What's up Russia? Thought you guys were busy subverting democracy in France. Wait. I get it. This is part of the whole France thing, isn't it. Niiiice. You guys are clever with a kapitol K.

I wish they would spray me with LSD

All that and you didn't tell us what happened!

This subreddit is shit, literally no sources and the one book he cites, the author is a literal batshit loon who thinks the government is feeding drugs to celebrities. None of that LSD story makes any sense or has any actual evidence. Once again /r/conspiracy is over ran with teenagers.

I hope the Deep State hasn't blackmailed or forced Trump into invading Syria.

Trump's a conman and you're a rube, end of story.

This is the kind of bugshit crazy I want to see when I come into /r/conspiracy via /r/all. Keep it up, mate.

Now, which politician said that the CIA should be abolished? One hint: the opposite of Trump.

Do us the service of delivering on your title with details early without the rambling blather, would you? "I hope them copters ain't spaying cancer chemicals over my house. Lol." Guess what vapid boy, it isn't funny.

...and that's the last we heard of ol' /u/Shared_Computer. Some say the copters got 'im. Me? I say the LSD mists caused his death. We may never know.

About an hour after reading your post I saw a military style black helicopter fly over my house here in NC. Wtf is going on?

Here is a documentary about the French village and CIA experiments. It interviews scientists who worked with LSD and villagers.

wrong thread

Source?

I wish the CIA would just hook me up like that. It's getting expensive and I want that goooood shit.

I've lived in the same house for 25 years, and I've never once seen military helicopters flying around.

This is easily explained via confirmation bias. I live near an airport. I also have a neighbor who is a pilot. We can be outside talking with a few people and a plane or helicopter will fly over and we'll be the only people to take notice of it. Another example is people who live near train tracks that never notice the train unless you point it out to them.

Very true. I live in CO and we have a train that goes by 6 times a day that blows its horn VERY loudly. After several years I don't even notice it anymore.

I've known people that lived near a elevated train, which didn't sound it's horn, and while I noticed every time a train went by, they didn't even hear it.

I disagree with the accusation after reading The Day of St. Anthony's Fire by John Grant Fuller Jr. This case has been overly debunked, and was more emblematic of improper grain storage by local farmers who failed to clean their silos. Hence why the bread turned grey, and why ergot, not LSD, was solely responsible for the catastrophe.

Besides, LSD in an aerosol form doesn't do that much. Just ask Aum Shinrikyo. They pumped the stuff out of their cars without so much as an incident before they decided on Sarin.

This is a known conspiracy, but LSD is extremely volatile. High exposure to sun and heat helps it break down very quickly, rendering it useless.

Probably ergot poisoning.

dude.

If you live near a military base you're probably more secure since they wouldn't intentionally break their own toys.

Dude, why do you think I got that job flying the black helicopters?

I live in Montana and saw a military helicopter flying low above my city a couple days ago, it was weird and I remember thinking "Man, that's odd." because I've never seen it happen the 5 years I've been in my house.

I love how this gives no links or evidence. Awesome stuff!

Here's an hour-long documentary that covers many of the CIA's experiments on unwilling human test subjects. Many of these have been declassified, although they still deny the French LSD poisoning. Worth the watch.

https://youtu.be/KXHBF5O5uAM

You lost me at "never once in 25 years" but also "maybe every 2 - 6 months".

Maybe I'll write about this later, or someone else will I hope.

This sounds like this is a fan fiction series, like it's just being made up

All fine and dandy, but what happen, exactly?

Cool things like this never happen in my area:(

Yeahhh Im not gonna believe shit until you throw some credible sources in there. "I read something in a book so it must be true". Give me a break.

Damn I wish the CIA would spray LSD over my town

I was going to make a sandwich then the Deep State mind-controlled me and told me to sell my children to Papa John's and begin the liberal uprising. Luckily this subreddit keeps me informed so I'm able to resist Hillary Clinton and the Deep State

It would be a shame if they sprayed it over my home town of New Cannan Connecticut 06840

I'll take the foie gras waiter, I'm sorry, I mean the giant penis floating will do.

"Denace"

I can just see some asshole parent spelling Dennis like that.

They need to deal with Trump before we shut them down. They can go out an a high note too, that way, so everyone is happy.

I wish they would do this to my home. LSD me, undercover CIA agents lurking in Reddit.

Free acid? Sign me up.

I want to live in a time line where acid is so free they hose down neighborhoods with it.

Why do the CIA have so much freedom/power. Who runs the CIA? who do they actually answer too? Seems like the just do as they please.

i thought LSD wasn't lethal, how did these people die?

I'm down for this to happen again. Ill put up my hometown

I know right? It's so hard to believe the Trump would actually do something that would contradict what he said previously. Must be the CIA.

and glow sticks and the drop come into existence

Tbh, I've been traveling/living outside of US a lot, and I am sure that governments throw stuffs in the water (i.e prozac, xanax, lithiun..)

Secrion 308 of the 2001 fiscal polics makes the cia above all authority!!!!

I think it for the fiscal year of 2001, but i may be wrong about the year

I started reading until I got to this:

remember papa bush never did invade Iraq, just kuwait.

Sorry but that is hilarious, I know this is a conspiracy sub but damn thats some next level shit. The name operation desert storm is the code name for the invasion of Iraq.

The Gulf War (2 August 1990 – 28 February 1991), codenamed Operation Desert Shield (2 August 1990 – 17 January 1991) for operations leading to the buildup of troops and defense of Saudi Arabia and Operation Desert Storm (17 January 1991 – 28 February 1991) in its combat phase, was a war waged by coalition forces from 35 nations led by the United States against Iraq in response to Iraq's invasion and annexation of Kuwait.

My students and I have been seeing millibars helicopters flying low over the school on a regular basis lately. Interesting.

How many ISIS sympathizers do you reckon work there? Seems like quite a lot.

Look, LSD can't kill you, so if they did spray LSD, then nobody died from it. Do your research bub

I think he's talking about the effects causing physical harm, whether intentional or accidental.

Aaaaaand no sauce whatsoever. Seems legit.

You're telling me that people died from the LSD? Unless they killed themselves or they were all exposed to thousands of micrograms of LSD then this didn't happen

LSD lasts 12 hours, after one dose, the next dose must be twice as large to feel the same effects if taken the next day. The next day, you must take twice the amount of the previous day, so four times the first dose, and so on. Didn't happen

Unfortunately for the villagers it was too early for trance music.

Really? Do you have a source of this happening? I've never heard of someone dying from LSD.

Hasn't thought of the effects it could have on crops / foods... I guess the CIA hadn't either.

LSD would not affect the crops like that. It would actually probably never make it to harvest as sunlight would destroy it before it can. Also one of the big problems ergot causes when it's eaten is it fucks with the cardiovascular system to a ridiculous amount. Interestingly, LSD doesn't do that near as much. In fact this is one of the reasons it preferable to so many truly comparable psychedelics (LSA, NBOMEs, etc.) Which can cause circulation issue in your extremities that in ergotism gets so bad as to be dangerous.

But the effects wear off after 4-9 hours...misting the crowd is a great way to compensate for that!

Putting LSD on any kind of substrate doesn't magically contaminate it with the fungus. Not even talking about the incredibly absurd likelihood of it causing a death, let alone four, so yeah, unless we get some reasonable sources I'm gently calling bullshit on this one.

Lmao, yeah, I guess. I think I've actually heard that before by someone who was MK-Ultra'd, sort of in a joking way

Unless you've already done LSD. But I'm betting these people never had.

Its derived from it but they are 2 different things and have very different effects. I dont think the cia would mess that up if they were really testing lsd. So, either the town was intentionally poisoned with a substance other than lsd, or it was an accidental manufacturing defect in their food, or it was something completely different.

Hidden in plain sight? -_-

I'm aware, but that doesn't detract much from my comment.

LSD is psychoactive if it at all comes into contact with someone so yeah aerosol would've fucked em up.

It could be absorbed through the skin, no breathing or swallowing necessary

And how much experience do you have with it?

An aerosol of a liquid like LSD is a colloidal suspension of particles dispersed in gas. If you spray this liquid suspended in gas over a surface, the liquid doesn't just disappear, gravity causes most of it to collect near where it was dispersed.

Not unlikely you did thaw real LSD, dude. Lots of stuff gets passed off as the real deal, even though it's a but different. Not like you'd know it's some random designer drug when you still trip. If it takes too long to kick in, that's another red flag. I've had stuff take a couple hours & I thought I got ripped off. Definitely wasn't acid, even if I had a fun time and felt like I was on acid.

LSD doesn't get digested it goes into the bloodstream to the brain and spine, besides no matter how much you take real LSD will last about 10 hours

<3

lsd man.. so fun

Yeah but the brown acid was bad trip man

You can tell who actually knows what they're talking about and who just knows of LSD from the DARE program.

Op is saying the bread had ergot fungus on it(ie it was moldy) which led to the lsd-like experience.

Bro Johnny Potash told me.

Thank you

psychonautwiki.org - LSD - physical effects

look this up please, thanks... LSD produces stimulation

definition of stimulant: an agent (as a drug) that produces a temporary increase of the functional activity or efficiency of an organism or any of its parts

also look this up. thanks for your time :)

Of course I am talking about the brain, that's why I said consciousness later.

Anyways, the difference between the highs is what makes you think other ways. Alcohol breaks down your boundaries, that's the reason you feel this way. LSD does not break your boundaries down. You are comparing oranges and apples expecting them to be the same and mean the same... you're ridicoulous mate.

4 isn't acid.

I'd believe 8-12 hours.

I'm too lazy to get a link, but I saw a document about it on Wikileaks

They're like Denace the Menace only they have machine guns.

This is all the proof I need.

send address plz will have da choppa on its way

I smoked pot with Johnny Potash. It was Johnny Potash, and Sloan Kettering, and they were blazin that shit up everyday.

...and that's the last we heard of ol' /u/Shared_Computer. Some say the copters got 'im. Me? I say the LSD mists caused his death. We may never know.

Definitely is, try sleeping on LSD

It would just be such an uneven dosing to various people, there would be no way to gain any insight if you don't know how much more the farmer in the field got than the teacher in the school house. I know the government gave it to unknowing people in more controlled situations, but just misting a town does not make much sense. So yeah, I am very skeptical also.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/7415082/French-bread-spiked-with-LSD-in-CIA-experiment.html

No! The truth is absolutely, unequivocally ineffable. Words can guide one to the truth of being, but it cannot be explained.

Alan Watts -- “There is no such thing as ‘the truth’ that can be stated. In other words, ask the question: ‘What is the true position of the stars in the Big Dipper?’ Well it depends on where you’re looking at them from.”

I'll leave it there. To each his own.

Duality is part of THE ONE !

Agreed, I think it's more likely the Ergot was from moldy bread, rather than CIA spraying lsd on a town.