It also has a lot to do with the phrasing of the narrative they were trying to push. They attempted to push HACKING in an effort to make Trump look like an illigitimate winner. They were hopeful that if they used HACKING vs INTERFERENCE people would assume that actual voting ballots were tampered with which is obviously not the case. The narrative falls short when most people realize that "hacking" simply means that the DNC server was hacked, emails were released that MAY HAVE swayed voters away from Hillary (which is not likely to a degree justified of altering results).

At any rate it still unreal that people are more concerned with WHO leaked information and could care less about the content.

Not to mention nobody cares how the US is constantly interfering with foreign elections.

In the public hearing live right now, all of the intelligence agencies just said that Russia was involved.

all of the intelligence agencies just said that Russia was involved.

Vault 7

17 intel agencies and now that number is 3 which stated Russia was involved.

This statement is wrong.

From Clappers mouth.

As you know, the I.C. was a coordinated product from three agencies; CIA, NSA, and the FBI not all 17 components of the intelligence community. Those three under the aegis of my former office. Following an extensive intelligence reporting about many Russian efforts to collect on and influence the outcome of the presidential election, President Obama asked us to do this in early December and have it completed before the end of his term.

No it's not. Clapper testified that three agencies (NSA, CIA, FBI) produced the intelligence report saying they were "confident" Russia interfered in the election. The other 14 agencies just piggybacked on top of that report, but they didn't perform any independent analysis.

https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/861665148846657536

Here are your 17 'intelligence agencies'. Let me know when the Coast Guard, Marines and Dept. of Energy confirm Russian ties.

Vault 7

Try to make coherent and well constructed points instead of just naming things.

Acela Express

Vault 7 showed that CIA hackers can leave the "fingerprints" of any one they want aka hack something and make it look like the russians did it.

So the CIA wanted to get trump elected?

Could be. Rally the opposition by catering exactly to what they want ("Hes an outsider" "Hes going to drain the swamp!"). Massive media campaign against him polarized the country like crazy and made his supporters much more loyal, to the point that they look the other way whenever he does anything. Gets elected, tows the deep state line. Personally don't think this is the case, he actually is an outsider, hes just being manipulated in other ways now.

However, in reference to the "Russian Hacking" of the election, that was not the CIA. That was Seth Rich (dnc leaks at least) and Podesta was the victim of a phishing email.

Not my job to do your research for you. You can figure out what Vault 7. For example, I was able to learn all on my own what Acela Express was simply by typing it in a search engine of my choosing.

I agree with you, however you shouldn't argue in such a manner. Call it out.

I can't say to you

• Pizzagate.

and call it a case closed. If someone wants to question the validity, you should elaborate. Or, like I have lately, you can just agree that its not worth your time to argue. Can't pretend that its a valid argument though

And they're all going off of that report that was riddled with lies. Tor has nothing to do with Russian hackers, yet they still put a bunch of exit node IPs in the report and called them Russian hackers.

That along with some nebulous reference to Crowdstrike was the only evidence at all.

Look at the information and stop appealing to authority.

What is their evidence? A claim means nothing without verifiable evidence to back it up.

Watch the hearing. It's very interesting stuff.

Link?

Just go to cspan

Yeah, don't have a cable provider to log in with.

I don't think you need a sub for the audio, just video. Although that shit will out you to sleep lol

fyi they are usually on youtube as well

this might surprise you, but evidence is usually not shown to the public until hearings and court stuff. During the investigation phase, the fbi/doj doesnt release things

The other issue here is there is ZERO evidence that Russia was involved in the wikileaks.

Wikileaks released the bullshit emails that Macron's team released to the Russian phishing scammers.

You have to realize people have been conditioned since they were kids to take what the MSM says as truth. Most people are unwilling to accept that they lie and push narratives and are owned by one of 6 corporations, all who have an agenda. We criticize state run media in other countries, but we have corporate run media here. How is that much different?

If we can't trust MSM for our news, then how should get our news? Who do we get our news from?

Independent media. Not corporate owned. There are many lists online. Check all of them out and see which interests you. Also, most people only read news that fits their partisan leaning. Read news from both sides. The truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

What's your recommendation for a independent media source?

And I've been trying to listen to podcasts from all sides recently. KCRW Left Right and Center is pretty good.

I added a link of a few to check out. Also, antimedia itself is a good one.

Thanks.

Here's a couple more to check out.

http://projectcensored.org/category/press-release/

http://blacklistednews.com

I also highly recommend the Corbett Report. Every episode is completely sourced.

I disagree that the MSM is completely useless. There are great journalists working for CNN, BBC, etc., but their stories are usually pushed aside in favor of corporate interests. Corbett actually acknowledges this, and a lot of his research comes from these very same outlets, such as the BBC (which he jokingly calls the "Big Brother Corporation"). There are a lot of conspiracies talked about in the MSM, but no one connects the dots. So you have these great stories here and there that are completely usurped by propaganda.

I also think that The Intercept, Truthdig, and Global Research are all great outlets. The Guardian also has surprisingly good investigative pieces, but it is also privy to MSM propaganda.

Cool thanks, I'll look into it.

No Agenda Podcast is awesome!

Thanks

If you can understand what the MSM's narrative is and what they are willing to lie about, you can actually use the MSM as a barometer for the truth. I.e., if the media is trying really hard to push a story that perfectly fits their narrative, but doesn't make logical sense, odds are it's a lie.

Fair enough.

If you can understand what the MSM's narrative is and what they are willing to lie about, you can actually use the MSM as a barometer for the truth.

What if you don't understand that the "MSM" isn't a monolithic entity and actually consists of competing outlets?

Would it not be better to use your critical thinking on the actual news and events instead of deciding if something is true or false because of how t is covered?

This is real backwards thinking..

What if you don't understand that the "MSM" isn't a monolithic entity and actually consists of competing outlets?

You're implying the media environment is in any way competitive. 90% is owned by 6 corporations, it's an oligopoly that uses monopolistic barriers to preserve their status.

I would argue that the interests of ownership among the 6 is much more alike than different.

this

Uh, MSM actually IS a monolithic entity: all those supposed "independent" outlets are owned by the same 5 mega corporations.

Try again.

I suggest watching Hypernormalisation. The same thing happened in Russia. Adam Curtis explains fairly well.

Slippery slope in evaluation, I'd say. This is exactly what the pizzagaters have done. MSM refuses to feature it = it must be true.

This is what happens when news journals agree to ignore newsworthy events that the whole world is aware of and large swaths of the world care at least a little bit about. I don't mean PG, I mean the Podesta Leak. It wasn't covered, and we got pizza gate because of it. Imagine if the media just decided not to cover the World Cup at all. So many people would lose their heads. This is what is happening.

You can still get some of your news from MSM, in fact you should.

The trick is to learn how to filter out the opinion. Lend greater weight to the facts in any given source, and take any commentary by the presenter with a MOBA sized grain of salt.

Each time a particular story interests you, find as many different sources on that article as you can. You'll discover that what you're actually looking at are secondary sources, and you'll recognize a shared primary source between different news sources. (I.E., several articles about a topic source a book that came out recently about that topic, the book is the primary source, the articles are secondary sources)

Over time, you'll find that different outlets have commentary that is more in line with your thinking based on having read a wide variety of sources. You'll find yourself gravitating to those sources for a period of time. That's okay. Your opinion will likely change over time, and different sources will be more appealing to you for different reasons.

As for specific sources:

• Reddit. This subreddit, the sidebar subreddits, and numerous other corner subreddits have great discussion. Avoid the defaults.

• YouTube. Subscribe to people you find yourself watching more than 1-2 videos from. Explore related videos, etc.

• 4chan. Garbage heap, but breaks a lot of things first. /pol/ for politics, /x/ for paranormal/UFOs

• Facebook (avoid if you can): If you have one, and like many people can't really drop it because it's your main contact to old friends, use it to 'Like' pages. Use optimal privacy settings (I.E. set all posts to 'friends' instead of 'global'). There are plenty of reasons to hate this place so if you aren't signed up, don't. But for the people stuck there, there are lots of good pages to 'Like'.

Absolutely Not

• Television. Turn that shit off. The ads fuck up your brain. Any relevant clips can be viewed on YouTube. You'll thank me once the brainwashing wears off.

Also, be aware, that on the internet, especially on Google/Facebook/AT&T, you are always being tracked. Use screen names, proxies, etc.

Reddit, YouTube and 4chan.......you cannot be serious.

Those are all just mediums to host information. I'm not sure what your incredulity stems from, because YouTube and Reddit both have incredible content. Of course there's a lot of bullshit, but that's where fact checking comes into play. This sub in particular has has a lot of amazing, well-sourced posts. YouTube also has sources like the Corbett Report.

To be fair, I see news on 4chan before it's anywhere else, often with live video that never shows up on news stations or its heavily edited. Seeing an event raw and uncut is is a lot bette than media spin.

You can still read MSM, but parse out any editorialized context and speculation. Most articles could be summarized into "x happened", but they instead pad it with "context" to make it feel like a tale and speculation about where the tale goes next and why you should care.

Reduce news to JUST the things that happened and fill in the rest yourself. Other people's opinions aren't worth the weight they are usually given. Opinions, regardless who they belong to, are simply opinions. There are some people who may be more or less informed on a topic, but that almost NEVER means you should just assimilate or dismiss them because of this. Opinions are always subjective, so new perspectives are always more valuable than consensus. I will always value a unique perspective over a popular one on almost any topic.

I think Associated Press is pretty good about just the facts mostly.

They often dabble in both editorialized context and speculation though.

There is no outlet that doesn't add those additional flavors to their articles, because most people wouldn't read a sterile list of events.

Reuters too

Would you stop? The more you type the more obvious it is you don't belong here.

Why don't I belong here?

You push nothing but MSM propaganda, for one, and secondly, you're anti-conspiracy.

How am I anti-conspiracy?

Only thing I care about is truth.

If you trust the MSM you shouldn't be here. Go to r/news and have fun, you will be with like minded people.

This is why you got a sarcastic joke nomination in the moderator thread. You don't even remotely seem like a legitimate user.

I'm mainly here to discuss the conspiracy surrounding Trump's campaign and Russian collusion/interference in our election.

I'm branching out right now and learning more about other conspiracies.

I care about truth, no matter where it comes from or who it implicates.

I'm mainly here to discuss the conspiracy surrounding Trump's campaign and Russian collusion/interference in our election.

We KNOW. You're mainly here to push an MSM narrative that has literally nothing to back it up.

That doesn't make you credible, the opposite in fact.

You may believe whatever you wish.

Do you at least acknowledge that the FBI is investigating Trump's campaign possible collusion with Russia?

Do you at least acknowledge that the FBI is investigating Trump's campaign possible collusion with Russia?

Wanna post a single source supporting that? Because there aren't any.

Stop lying.

James Comey at the House Intelligence Hearing on March 20, 2017:

“I’ve been authorized by the Department of Justice to confirm that the FBI, as part of our counterintelligence mission, is investigating the Russian government's efforts to interfere in the 2016 presidential election,” Comey said in testimony before the House Intelligence Committee. “That includes investigating the nature of any links between individuals associated with the Trump campaign and the Russian government, and whether there was any coordination between the campaign and Russia’s efforts.”

Wait, you don't believe there's an investigation going on? Everyone except the most diehard Trump supporters acknowledge there's an investigation.

The burden of proof is so high for a Russia investigation that it'll never be satisfied for these morons. They disbelieve everything the MSM reports, not just opinion news, everything. Like, I'd the MSM says it, it must be a lie.

That's not an opinion. That's unhinged.

literally nothing

What's it like being so willfully ignorant?

If you trust the MSM you shouldn't be here. Go to r/news and have fun, you will be with like minded people.

"You and your kind" mentality splits and divides

Lol. It's called developing critical thinking skills and being skeptical while open minded of any and all claims from anyone. If you cant build that foundation first, where you look for information doesn't matter. As for WHAT to look for when Newsing yourself, i suggest topics of personal relevance first, and then investigate the claims of people you regularly associate with. From there being hoomed on the news is about as brainwashy as going to church every day if your not careful.

independent journalists. its like you haven't even heard of George Webb

Yeah, that's something I always wanted to do, but it seems like such a daunting task to always try to keep track of everything

I think you overestimate how much the left trusts the msm. I think we started the movement to get rid of cable and were mocked for it at the time, no?

I can't stand Trump, or Clinton for that matter, consider myself pretty far left-leaning for the most part, and can see the 'Russia interfering in our election' theory is bullshit. It amounts to partisan and CIA propaganda used to deflect attention from the very content of the DNC e-mails and their implications (a rigged primary), further exploited by the CIA and intel community in order to manipulate the left into blaming Russia for all of their problems, much of them created by that very community and our own government.

So because everyone is talking about it in the "mainstream" we can't discuss it here?

Because it's stupid and a waste of time. The mainstream media should be more concerned with the content and not the source. That's the only logical thing to do. The content of the emails have to do with US politicians. If the mainstream media is pushing the narrative that the Russians are the bad guys and not our own US politicians, then yeah the average person should put 2 and 2 together. The contents of the emails. I have a power through it illegal activities committed by US politicians. It's not illegal to talk to somebody if they're Russian.

It's stupid and a waste of time to be interested in a conspiracy of a foreign nation interfering with another nation's election?

No, it's stupid and a waste of time for you to think that Russia did it to America.

Why is it stupid and a waste of time to think that?

Look into it all you want. All I'm saying is you're wasting your time.

And I'm asking you why you think it's a waste of time?

It's 2017. Hacking is everywhere. The 12-year-old kid with a smart phone can hack. What's so bad about the Russians hacking the DNC emails. Superpowers hack all the time. Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. In most cases it happens and you don't hear about it. It just so happens this time the American public got to see emails of their own US politicians before an election. So if they are the ones that hack the DNC , what did Russia do wrong? I would rather see what my politicians are lying to me about then try to dig down some rabbit hole about how somebody exposed the lying politician.

Should there ever be repercussions for anyone that is caught hacking?

That's the thing with hacking. Everybody does it. Should the US go on a rampage and persecute every single other country in the world?

US should place sanctions on anyone that is caught doing it and arrest anyone that is caught.

So America should just shut the whole world off and not talk to anybody?

No. I did not say that.

I said we should place sanctions. Sanctions can be very mild or very extreme, depending on the severity of the situation.

You would still have to do it to China France Brazil Germany England and etc. Would you choose which one gets sanctions? Do they all get them. And if we would push sanctions we would be hypocrites.

Yes. And as I said, it should done based on the situation, severity, and context.

So what should we do to ourselves?

Push for American interest. I'm an American, so of course I want the best for my country first.

How do you think your country pays for all its elite interests?

Dude, read Killing Hope by William Blum. The amount of clandestine military actions, election overthrowing, political assassinations and fuckery that the United States military and intelligence community is responsible for over the last hundred plus years would make you puke with horror. Russia on their worst day doesn't even compare to what the US has done

I don't doubt it and thanks. I'll look into it.

But, Russia did kill hundreds of their own people in apartment building bombings in order to go to war and solidfy Putin's power.

Also, people here seem to be hinging on "hacking" which isn't even the real problem here. The problem are direct ties to Kremlin money and power.

But, then again, they know that.

Yeah, and that's because the rationale for this investigation has changed every single time their shitty theory gets shot down. It's been eight plus months of these accusations and literally zero hard evidence coming out in support of them, including even James Clapper (Obama's IC Boss Daddy) admitting that there's no evidence of collusion. And that's because the story is a fat fucking nothingburger and a charade to push a war for hegemonic dominance. It's political theater designed to cover up real crimes exposed by WikiLeaks during and after the election, and to save face because they got behind a disastrous campaign and candidate and can't handle the loss.

I wouldn't expect evidence during an investigation, that's how the US has always worked. Hell, Nixon was in the clear until the very minute he wasn't. But the cover up at the White House is clear to anyone paying attention.

If you're looking at it from another side of the lens, you could also see it as Comey being the only person obstructing investigation into Clinton and her Clinton Foundation or the nationwide pedophilia rings, or the fact that he was ridiculously incompetent in the first place and should have been fired months ago for not only refusing to bring charges against Hillary Clinton that were more than justified, but for continuing to help undermine the Trump Administration with bulshit accusations based on shaky evidence bolstered by the source of the claims - in this case, the head of the FBI Director Comey continuing an investigation that has after 8 months of continuous rampant speculation and fear-mongering produced exactly jackshit of hard evidence. But the truth is probably somewhere in the middle and you're definitely still overestimating Russian influence in our politics when you should be looking at Israel's influence a whole lot more, as that has actual credible proof and evidence supporting it going back decades.

Oh no, he deserved to be fired. But, the timing is pretty much proof that Trump is corrupt and Comey's people were getting close. They did issue subpoeneas for Flynn after all.

The Senate Intel Comm also issued it's first subpoena since 9/11 and the Senate's first since Nixon. This is a big deal.

Yes the timing is definitely shady for sure, but you also have to realize there's a lot of things going on behind the background that are not being reported on that certainly could have had an impact on why Comey was fired, as we all know it was definitely for unofficial reasons. What we don't know is what those reasons are.

Israel is involved in plenty of domestic affairs. There's a reason AIPAC wields a ridiculous amount of power in Congress, just like there's a reason why tons of Mossad agents were routed out and arrested in the months following 9/11 for suspected ties to the plot itself, and why mostly everybody of importance tied to 9/11 in the profiting of the attack was a Zionist, Israeli politician or dual Israeli citizen working in the United States government or with the neoconservatives of the Bush Administration. How about the five dancing Israelis (two were Mossad agents) that were captured on the day of the attacks and then let go, then appeared on Israeli national TV and admitted that they were there to "document the event"? Why would Benjamin Netanyahu repeatedly state that 9/11 was a great day for Israel? What about that domestic abuse?

I'm fully aware that Putin is basically a mob boss that owns Russia. But again he's really no different or any better or worse than any of our Presidents, it's whatever country you're born in and whatever propaganda you're fed. These people ultimately all eat at the same tables and do business together regardless of whether they are official enemies or not. What people fail to realize is that there are no good guys in this. Trump and Putin are two people looking out for their own interests and whatever is going to make their country the strongest. The fact that both of them are strong nationalists is actually a good thing for us, collectively. I'm just solidly in favor of diplomacy and good relations with the only other country that can destroy us, for pretty common sense reasons.

This hacking is important because it may have decided the result of a US election.

No it didn't. People decide.

The information obtained during the hacking may have persuaded people. And while we can both agree that the fact that the information came out, I believe that Russia was not acting altruistically.

Would you rather have more information or less when it time to cast a vote. Don't hate the messenger.

More, obviously, I'm just questioning why Russia would do that. By hacking they are taking a risk, you need to ask what is in it for them.

What risk are they taking? Why would they care. It's America. Not Russia. They don't have to answer to the US.

Something called international relations.

That doesn't affect international relations. Look at all the meddling the United States did. France, Iraq, Egypt, Libya, Syria, etc.No repercussions.

It's a waste of time because CrowdStrike redacted large portions of its initial hacking assessment, making it essentially useless. I'll give you 1 source.

CrowdStrike is also under fire for falsifying Russian hacking in Ukraine: source.

Must have been a waste of time for Trump to hire Manafort and Flynn because it was only a matter of time before everybody found out they were being paid off by the Russians.

Go head and fall for it.

Fall for what? Did Flynn and Manafort get fired because they were being paid off by the Russians, yes or no?

I already told you I don't waste my time with that shit. Why would I have an opinion about something that I deem is a waste of time.

Ahahahahahaha. "Look bro, I'm just going to plug my ears and not respond to that okay?"

Thank you

Willful ignorance is great

Is it treating you well?

Ah yes, that's "proof" that Russia hacked the election.

Your logic is FULL RETARD. Typical coming from someone who immediately and without question believes the MSM narrative, every time.

So you're going to disregard Flynn and Manafort, and everybody else, and just go straight to name-calling? How mature of you.

because you don't want it to be true

You tell me what you think a Cold War is and I'll tell you what I think.

so because the cold war happened, it's impossible that russia spent money to influence people in trumps campaign and cabinet

I'm saying the tactic is as common as rain on a cloudy day.

The big story is Russia is trying to influence foreign governments for their own self interests. (US would never) This is news to you? The cold war is an economic and production competition basically. Are you saying we are competing with foreign countries in these categories? What a scoop.

Ffs

The story is how many people around trump are directly connected to Russia

Not that Russia wants to influence, of course they do

But they're getting what they want, that's the story

The elite get what they want while you argue over what language they speak.

If you're concerned with that look no further than the United States.

I don't doubt it, and I wouldn't think it's a waste of time to investigate that when it happens.

But, if you think the United States does, how hard is it to believe that Russia does it as well?

Because these are two superpowers. America interferes in elections in other countries all the time. It's harder for the US to influence the Russian elections. And even if the Russians hacked the DNC emails, they didn't do anything except for give the American people more information about the politicians that they are about ready to elect.

So you at least acknowledge that it's possible that Russia hacked the DNC?

I'm saying it doesn't matter. What's so bad about Russians hacking the DNC emails? Super powers hack all the time. It's just that most of the time we don't see it. This time we got to see it before an election. If anything you should say thanks.

So you don't think it's bad when the states does it?

What world do you live in. Of course it's bad. But that's the world I live in. It's a part of the norm. Why are you more concerned with Russia and less concerned with the contents of the email?

So you think it's bad, but you implied it's not bad when Russia does it.

I'm concerned with both.

I imply that it's bad. I also imply that it is the norm. I'm not gonna go to war with Russia because they exposed emails of US politicians before an election. You should've already known the things in the emails but you don't. If you want to persecute hackers you better clear your list of things to do. If you don't want people hacking you, use more precaution.

No one is advocating war. People are advocating for sanctions and investigations into any individuals involved and the scope of the Russian interference.

Like a Cold War?

We already have sanctions on Russia. Are we in a cold war presently?

Some would call it that.

Would you?

War is just a word. Cold War is another word. I don't get caught up in semantics.

Do you personally believe we are in a cold war with Russia?

Semantics. I don't get caught up in them. The meaning is subjective.

So you've acknowledged that meddling in foreign elections is bad and acknowledged that Russia could have hacked the DNC to try to influence our election. Tell me again why you don't want an investigation to know more about this, and whether or not it's true? You don't want to know the truth?

Problem solved: Do away with elections and let us govern ourselves. I don't agree with having a federal government. States already have laws. I'm not going to defend a broke system that consolidates all that power into one cabinet that benefits the elite. Could you imagine in early American history if African Americans arguing like this over there plantation owners?

What's so bad about Russians hacking the DNC emails

That they did it at the request of the man who is currently President and that they are expecting something in return for that hacking.

Why are you not as concerned about the hundreds of millions donated to Clinton from foreign governments and the clear pay to play while she was SoS?

I am. But, she's not president.

I don't think you are. If you were you would speaking out against provable corruption everywhere. Instead you push a conspiracy with zero hard evidence and chose to brush aside facts. Give me a link to a post or comment of yours before the election, when she still had a chance to become president, where you voiced your concerns this much about where the $2billion for her campaign came from. Though you can't because they both don't exist and you created this throwaway so you wouldn't be subjected to your own hypocrisy.

There hasn't been a single official document presented to the public to substantiate the collusion clam. In fact quite the opposite, both Comey and Clapper testified before Congress that there was ZERO evidence to support the claim.

I obviously can't give a link or a comment before the election because this account is only a month old.

I will tell you that I think she's a corrupt piece of shit, that tried to avoid FOIA laws, is extremely incompetent with computer security and classified documents, and is beholden to Wall Street and donors.

Side note: There is still an open investigation by the FBI into Trump's campaign possible collusion with Russia.

Side note: the last administration politicized neutral agencies like the FBI, IRS, NSA, CIA, DOJ, DOE, to the point that the general public has lost faith in them. Comey gave Bill Clinton a pass on pardoning Mark Rich, one of the FBI's top ten most wanted at the time. Andrew McCabe's wife was given $750k to run a campaign by a Clinton loyalist. If you believe there is nothing political about the "investigation" then you're more naive than you let on.

What bogus MSM talking point are you going to parrot at me now without puting any original thought into it?

I was just going to say that we'll have to wait and see what the investigation brings up. If nothing comes up, then I'm fine with that.

But until then you're going to try to push a bogus narative in an attempt to convince people that there's "shady shit" going on, with zero factual evidence to back it up.

You can't expect people to believe lies when the truth is at their fingertips.

People may believe in whatever they want. I enjoy talking about it, so I will.

James Clapper on collusion between Russia, Trump aides: There could be evidence

You linked to a CNN opinion piece under politics. Why do you use a news site known to be in bed with the Clintons? Why don't you use primary sources so there are no questions?

https://youtu.be/QMbQGSWsN_0

Direct from James Clapper's mouth, under OATH, in front of congress. There is no evidence of collusion, no matter how the corrupt media wants to spin it. CNN? Really?

Piece of advice, you should at least check out the article before you assume what's in it.

Piece of advice, you shouldn't assume things. I read the article. CNN can print whatever they want about Clapper saying whatever he wants. The FACT remains that UNDER OATH, in front of CONGRESS, he testified that there was no evidence.

You have no argument other than to link to an outlet that we know for a fact colluded with the Clinton campaign. I'll take congressional testimony over a corrupt rag any day.

I could link to all of the articles about the new book by a Clinton insider claiming the Russia narrative was spun on election night. But that's not provable evidence is it? Like CNN clickbait articles are not provable evidence, and shouldn't be used in a serious discussion about accusations of the highest magnitude. Try again.

You didn't watch the video did you? The video is on the top of the page and it's Clapper in a hearing under oath.

The contents of the emails are piled with illegal activities committed by US politicians.

What illegal activites?

Look into it. You would know if you weren't so worried about Russia.

I looked over the leaked emails on release, saw no illegal activity.

Help me out

Look again.

That's what you sound like.

The Russians did it. Look. Keep looking.

It's all a waste of time.

What illegal activity in the emails?

You brought it up, explain it.

I don't have to. My names not google.

Congratulations.

We have reached the bottom of the barrel.

Tell me about it. All these people expecting answers on golden platters. Like someone is going to serve the truth to you through some kind of box which requires only an on button. Read a book. Stop watching propaganda. You'll feel a lot better. I promise.

Don't be so patronising. Back up your claims and stop running from them

Nope. Not worth my time to care about stupid propaganda.

At least you admit you're pushing propaganda.

And how did I do that? Lol.

Not worth my time to care

Proceeds to go onto an internet forum to tell everyone about how much he doesn't care

You do care. You just don't care to open yourself to new ideas.

It takes me 20 seconds to respond. You don't have to care that much for that. Listening to the MSN is not a new idea. That's what I did before I woke up.

There are multiple subreddits dedicated to this topic with multiple thousand+ comment threads every single day.

Talking about a conspiracy is an agenda now?

Nah, but when you post like it's your job...

Whatever, believe what you want. I'm tired of defending myself.

Notice how whenever they push that narrative they're purposely vague. It's always 'russia hacked/interfered/influenced the election.' They rarely go into any more details than that.

Unfortunately, the foundation of the entire Russian hacking narrative was this thing.

Professionally speaking, it is shit. Using that as a foundation for attribution is bush league and fails to point to any actual "evidence". Furthermore, the source code has been available for some time so no speculation about the spooks having tools to populate malware with patterns used by other groups is required.

As a comparative example, here is a 110M PDF that details the investigation of the OPM breach. The Chinese did that one but everyone seems to have forgotten that there are other countries in this world other than Russia.

Without a technical foundation the stronger narrative is that Russia is a cover for mass-internal surveillance of political opponents.

Professionally speaking, it is shit

What's your professional basis for judging this then?

Security researcher for over 20-years focused on Fed.

Didn't it fail to show evidence because that evidence was classified, but still open to subpoena in an actual investigation?

Seems reasonable to me.

No, there is no further evidence. The FBI has repeatedly confirmed they never were provided access to the server and devices involved.

Is that the only place evidence of Russian collusion could exist?

From here the narrative and speculation are all yours. I'm all out of evidence.

narrative and speculation are all yours

dont worry they got that in spades.

The American people should know what the evidence is. We don't work for the government. The "for national security reasons" is a spector that long ago ran away.

Should it be released while Investigations are ongoing?

The American people should know what the evidence is.

They should. But. Y'know. They don't. And they don't even know that they don't even know.

wow so those servers "COULD" have evidence on the russian hacking! Well let's get Schumer on the line, i'm sure they'll be all over trying to get the FBI to look at those hillary servers.

But they're not the only place

all right well lets start there then "expand the investigation" how could we argue against that? Here go get the servers they haven't let the fbi look from crowdstrike, then we can get to the bottom of the russian narrative when we find their paws all over those servers.

Yeah? What else you got?

researcher

I think you mean "I hang out on /r/conspiracy and follow links to stupid blogs".

Attack me personally all you want, the data stands on its own. I know it's rather technical so feel free to ask about the parts you don't understand.

Foul on Autpornbot:

Ad Hominem Logical Fallacy Violation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.

Show me where I was attacking an argument. All i did was cry bullshit when OP called himself a 'researcher'.

pssst... hey... over here. You just defined an ad hominem attack.

Yeah, I copied and pasted it from google. What's your point?

I am not attacking whatever /u/aleister was talking about. Honestly, I didn't even read those links. He made a claim that he's a "professional researcher", and I call bullshit.

If it were an ad hominem attack, I would have said "your argument is bullshit because you aren't a professional researcher". I never made that claim. Like I said, I haven't even read his links. That's why it isn't an ad hominem attack.

I don't really care. But I don't think he's a professional researcher, and unless he's going to prove it somehow, he shouldn't go around trying to bolster his credibility by claiming he is.

pssst.... you're still doing it.

I don't really care

Haha hmmm... that is not how you are coming across.

OK.

Whats funny is you actually aren't guilty of ad hominem

Ad hominem would have been you attacking him in response to his original idea, but you were attacking the very idea that he was a professional not that he did or did not know what he was talking about.

Your reaction sort of warrants the downvotes though lol

Here's another stupid blog with additional technical analysis if you're interested also.

Why are you linking that? How does it prove that you are a "Security researcher for over 20-years focused on Fed"?

Are you claiming to be the author of this report? Or just that you read it and that makes you an expert?

Why are you linking that?

The link includes additional technical evidence that the Russian narrative doesn't hold water if the foundation starts with "Russia hacked the election".

How does it prove that you are a "Security researcher for over 20-years focused on Fed"?

I understand that the content may be beyond your understanding and but I did offer to answer questions.

As I said, the evidence stands on it's own so trying to slide the narrative towards me with personal attacks leading to "he won't dox himself so he's lying" isn't going to be an effective strategy today.

I don't have questions about the blog. My point is, any idiot can link to a blog. You claim to be some professional researcher with 20+ years of experience. I just want clarification as to whether you mean you are a professional "researcher" or if you just mean "I read a lot of blogs".

I'm not even following whatever topic you were talking about. You claim to be an expert, I want proof. I can link you to a paper on quantum mechanics, that doesn't make me an expert in physics.

The relevant kind. Computer security is literally my job.

So if you can't prove you're a security expert, why go on reddit and try to bolster your credibility by claiming you are one?

Even though I called out your punchline two posts ago you still went with it. For the final time /u/autopornbot, you can attack me and ignore the data all your want, but it isn't going to change the narrative. Best of luck.

If you want proof, test his knowledge.

I feel like he is too deep into his own denial to even consider that u/aleister may be legit.

As I said, it doesn't matter. The links I provided stand on their own. This business has no room for posers. You either come through with the data or you STFU.

Without getting technical, the reason for this is that you must be able to define it is that you must automate everything. Attacks are automated and thus response must be automated. This also means automating the accurate recognition of an attack and that isn't happening manually either...

Shall we play a game?

Im willing to accept that Russia did hack the DNC. But I don't think that is unique to Russia. Why am I wrong?

Sorry, not quite sure of the question. Are you asking if other actors, besides Russia, were involved in operations against the DNC?

Yes

He is probably a professional poster on r/the_donald

Good Lord. You're in the wrong sub guy

Yeah real conspiracy in r/conspiracy? Lol

The only people promoting this real^/s conspiracy are known liars and shamelessly partisan political pundits in the mainstream media that manufacture your consent, while ignoring actual truthful conspiracies, like Israeli influence in US politics which is about 100% more pervasive than anything Russia could ever hope to have.

I agree there is a scary amount of influence from both Israel and Saudi Arabia. That doesn't mean we ignore the Russian influence in the White House.

Again there needs to be some actual evidence of Russian influence in the White House because there has been no hard evidence and only a bunch of conjecture and political shit-flinging so far. Now if you want to look for Zionist / Israeli influence in the White House, look who's fucking the Presidents daughter that literally shares his room with Bibi Netanyahu.

The Russian conspiracy is fodder for the idiot sheeple to rally the public to a frothing madness against both Trump (for having the audacity to beat them in 2016) and Putin (their boogeyman that triggers the left) so when the bottom drops out underneath the USA and Western world from banker fuckery, it will be blamed on the BRICS nations and their affiliates, and the public will explode and demand vengeance. Yay, the elite get their World War 3 like they wanted!

If you want to know what the real conspiracy behind Trump is, look no further than Jared Kushner himself, Cadre and Lucent Technologies. It's no accident that Kushner bought 666 5th Avenue for a record-breaking $1.8 billion dollars. He is the true puppet master behind Ivanka and Trump.

Trump has made every effort to stop the Russia investigation and he and his people have lied to the American people so many times about communications with Russia (some have lied under oath and broken the law, one of those people is the AG) or anything related to it. Also Trump tried to stop the info about his BS by clearing house at the CIA. That didn't work. Then he tries to fire the FBI director because he wouldn't stop the investigation! Like... it is staring you in the face and you won't believe it.

He called it a waste of taxpayer dollars and a distraction, which it is. Flynn lied about his ties to Russia and that's been proven. Sessions did not lie under oath and that has been conclusively proven. What house did he clear at the CIA? More importantly do not understand what the CIA actually does? Comey deserved to be fired a million times over and both sides hated him for entirely different reasons that were both legitimate. You sound like you're buying into a lot of partisan rhetoric and not looking at the Hard facts which is that there was no hard evidence or proof of ties between Trump and his campaign or Russia. James Clapper himself even said this less than a few days ago, and he was in charge of basically every major intelligence service during the Obama Administration.

I hate the CIA with all my being, but they had info about Trump's collusion with Russia but because they are a foreign agency, they couldn't do anything. Obama knew as president and ordered them to turn over everything to the FBI.

Also you remind me of all those people that downvoted and the mods that deleted the thread here about the secret meeting between trump and a russian agent caught on camera at an airport late in the primaries. Yet you were probably the same kind of person to call out and upvote the post about the meeting bill clinton had with the Obama AG.

Corruption runs deep in washington. Right now Trump is president and he is the center of this corruption. This is a huge conspiracy. Hell, throw in the isreal shit and deep state shit. Trump loves the shit out of Isreal, and he also had a weird meeting with Kissinger the other day that wasn't on the public record. Trump also has started selling weapons to terrorists, so there is that angle too. Corruption central and well beyond the obvious firing of the man investigating him.

Didnt they have sketchy evidence that even most script kiddies wouldnt have left behind? Something with the keyboard layout used and ip's etc, or am i thinking of a different russian hack?

"Russia is a bogey man causing democracy to suffer" said the CIA.

I heard on NPR that Putin supports Trump and that it's destructive to America to support the US president. That was it; that was the entire sentence. Made me laugh out loud.

It's simple logic man! Hitler = Nazi. Nazi = dictator. Trump = dictator. Putin = dictator. Trump = Nazi. Putin = Nazi. Hitler = Putin = Trump.

CONNECT THE DOTS MAN

Curious as to when you heard this? I listen to NPR on my morning commute and cannot imagine this being said. They were in the bag for Gorsuch, and they have multiple GOP members on pretty frequently.

Why would being in the bag for Gorsuch be surprising? Gorsuch was confirmed unanimously by the Senate to the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals, receiving the full support of Democratic senators at the time, including Chuck Schumer, Joe Biden, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton. So it sounds like NPR was being consistent while you and the rest of the media are utilizing the 2017 democratic talking point of "Gorsuch is the worst! He's a fascist!"

I can check their archives, so just let me know when it was said.

You're implying that they made a blanket statement, which I've personally never heard them make. All of their shows are based around open forums. So, just let me know when you heard it and I'll look it up.

My job requires a lot of driving and I switch back and forth between npr and kpfk. I'm pretty sure it was npr. It was yesterday afternoon sometime between 1 pm and 6 pm.

Which program and which time zone?

I have no clue what program, dude. As I said, I was switching back and forth and can only tolerate short increments. I haven't listened much to left-sided public radio since mid '16 because they've gone full retard, pushing the very tired "muh russia" fake news.

Pacific time zone. I'm happy to dox myself to help you find it!

Lol, no that's ok. I'm in the west too. No need to keep downvoting, just asking questions.

So you only listen to right-sided radio?

Oh, is that what I said? It's funny how not liking to be enraged over stupidly while I'm driving is suddenly listening to only the right.

I try to listen to the right too but, again, I can only listen in short increments. News flash: I hate the GOP as much as the DNC and have never been a republican. I'm guessing you most be a liberal or, more accurately, a neoliberal.

I think I'm always hoping to turn the station to laugh at both sides but then once either side raises my blood pressure (while driving, I might add), I turn it off. There are other things to listen to: music, books on tape, language programs, podcasts like highersidechats, red ice. Jesus, dude, there's a wide range of interesting material to listen to outside of talk radio.

Yeah, I hate both parties. I wouldn't be here otherwise. I listen to NPR because it covers local news on public lands where I live.

Well now, we found where we're in agreement. I used to listen to NPR a lot. Thinking that Bernie may have been on the level and NPR giving him the Ron Paul/distain treatment was the first gut punch that it took for me to realize they weren't as neutral as I had thought. I was so naive to think NPR would be different from the rest of the MSM.

What do you think we should do as citizens to wrest power away from the corrupt 2-party system? Just raise awareness of the problem?

For the record, I never disagreed with you lol. Honestly, I think we're stuck with it. There's no way the left is going to vote 3rd party in 2018 and 2020. If anything Trump's election pushed that divide even further apart.

But, I think more people are open to the idea of allowing more than one party, and realize that our system is antiquated. So in that respect, yeah, you're probably right that raising awareness is the only way. I voted Gary Johnson in the last two elections...

I suppose you're right-lol. Sorry to be so defensive.

I think it's great the libertarian party is on the ticket in all states but I worry about voting third-party now because I'm paranoid they'll be more likely to steal the third-party votes. I can't believe how badly the third parties did this election, really disappointing. They couldn't have done that bad, right? But tptb are going to continue to keep them lower than 15% in the polls and out of debates and off any form of media.

Here's the problem I had the last election: both third party candidates seemed like controlled opposition. So it seems the entire system is corrupted and even if a miracle happened and an honest POTUS was inaugurated, the deepstate would still take over the presidency through the carrot or stick method of control.

I lean libertarian myself (I only liked Bernie 'cuz I thought he was well-intentioned and honest) and normally would vote libertarian but didn't because of Gary being a total sellout. Gary and Bill endorsed HRC before the election, hurting their chances, and even called her a "wonderful public servant." Then Jill had recounts w/more funding than she could get as an actual candidate, all after she got what she wanted w/Hillary not being the president. So it just leaves you thinking that third parties got co-opted and that the entire thing is all for show and I'm wondering if I'll even bother voting anymore. All we get is more of the same every damn time.

I just don't know what to do. So many problems need to be fixed, it's overwhelming but I remain somewhat idealistic that if enough people wake up to the sad reality, it can then be a catalyst for change. But even that seems pretty unrealistic, although not impossible and I suppose a good goal to strive for. Politics got so divisive this election, orchestrated by tptb who don't want us united, and now I need to work on improving my tone and trying to find common ground w/my least favorite people: neocons and neolibs.

No worries, I was being a dick too lol. Sorry for that.

In CO, GJ got 5%, and in Utah, Evan McMullin got 21%, which is astronomically higher than in 2012. So people are def waking up to the system and it's problems. But, I think you're generally right that the 3rd parties have little chance of catching on anytime soon, at least to get into the actual debate phase. Trump/Clinton really put that to grinding halt, especially with Trump winning.

I'll vote for Bernie if he's alive at 79 and running, and I would have voted for him in 2016, but the DNC fucked that up bad. Oh well. It is what it is.

And yeah, we could all work on our tone. I think everyone is frustrated and pissed off about where things are. People cling to ideology in this country, which is fine, but problems just continue to mount and people refuse to budge on their beliefs. Many of us seem pretty flexible. We know the healthcare system is fucked, we know the 1% gets everything, we know about the corruption, we know we need to make things right... But, we just don't seem to agree on the how.

Conversations like this give me some hope though. We're all just trying to figure it out, and we're all gonna have to keep talking it through.

Alright so here's my conspiracy theory that stems back to Ukraine.

Putin take Crimea, sanctions are put on Russia, Russian economy suffers due to sanctions. Check a GDP graph and you'll see in 2014 there's a big drop and its only getting worse.

Russia wants sanctions to end. United States is the main country putting sanctions on. This leads to Russia wanting a pro Russia or Russia neutral leader as the president. Clearly that wouldn't be Hillary.

Rex Tillerson is our Secretary of state. Ex ExxonMobil CEO with a big stake in the company obviously. He directly benefits from laxxed sanctions on Russia due to the fact that they have vast potential for oil.

Trump attacked Syria in defense of "chemical weapons" which led to "tensions rising" between Russia and US. They both look good if they end the war in Syria over "peace talks" that end Russian sanctions.

But in the end, it's a conspiracy theory.

Now this I could believe, but only if the last sentence happens.

Basically in a nut shell, Hillary emails is the evidence of influence on U.S. elections. If that's the evidence, I'm glad Russia is our ally and The Clinton oligarchy has been diminished.

I have a question, a serious question setting all politics and conspiracies aside for the moment: would we stand a chance against Russia, and on what terms? Im not suggesting we would lose, but the common US citizens view is of a backwards poor wanna be american Russia and holds US as an unstoppable military force. I know we have the most nukes, battle cruisers, and the top tech, but what does thay mean in the scheme of things against Russia.

I hate the idea of war with Russia (or anyone for that matter). I feel like our cultures arent that different, and theres no reason we shouldnt get along. If my country was being attacked, i would defend it to the death. Id just never see myself going onto foreign soil to attack someone. How wouls russias people feel? How would they see us. How is the media successfully painting them as a technologically advanced yet equally insane/stupid version of north korea?

Its astonishing that clinton/supporters want a war with the other great power at all, especially when liberals claim to be so against war. I also realize the whole bipartisan thing is bullshit, but something has to be up with the trump pure hate train. Since before the election, my reddit and facebook feeds have been flooding nonstop with trump hate.

I know what you mean about feeling like going to war. Who actually wants to? Who actually wants to go on the lines and attack someone else?

We would not stand a chance on russian soil. Russia wouldn't stand a chance on ours. That's why hillary was trying to force an engagement in syria. We're far better positioned in the middle east than asia.

I believe we are superior to Russia on all matters of war, but that's beside then point. Why are our elected officials acting like kids, tit for tat, childish games. Do we want a better America or not? Are we going to be bitter about losses or move forward? These are the questions that run through my head.

There will be no war but only loss of energy arguing BS. Maybe that's the plan from the start, I don't know, but it's BS non the less.

How to appear as a russian state sponsored hacker: https://blog.0day.rocks/lets-get-fancy-with-false-flags-28eaabefeff6

Because it's pushed almost 24/7 by the mainstream media...

Who are, themselves, the biggest election hackers of all.

Ironic because it appears that OP is also pushing a counter-narrative.

and makes no sense even as a theory (i.e.: what is the difference between what Russia has alleged to do and what all other countries and corporations do, what's the difference beyond being butthurt about Hillary losing and wanting a bogeyman to explain it)?

This isn't vague reasoning? "what other countries and corporations do?" Give me a break! The House, Senate, and FBI wouldn't be investing time if it weren't a serious issue. A vague and indescribable one unless you have hours of time perhaps, but a serious one nevertheless.

Unless you're "pushing" the narrative.

Kinda ironic ending the OP's post like this isn't it? You never really gave a good reason! You just said MSM, therefore false!

Might not seem a good reason to you, but...

But this is government versus government. Trump is the President! He's the government man! Look at the power he wields; he just fired the guy investigating him on a dime. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Yeah, Trump is the government, although he's only had 26 confirmed nominees out of 530! The rest are Obama holdovers, so yeah, Trump is really wielding the power of the government. 🙄

I know, it's far more important to tie the government up in investigating made-up "muh Russia" accusations instead of having confirmation hearings...

He's only nominated 49 people so far. Let's not act like Congress is dragging its feet when he doesn't formally nominate anyone.

I personally believe in the Russia narrative, and that the current president, or at least his advisors, engaged in some shady shit with Russia to help win the election. But don't take my word for it. I'm gonna post this comment from /r/AskTrumpSupporters, which goes over the most important parts concisely.

First, it's pretty much confirmed that Russia meddled into the election. They hacked the DNC servers and released damaging emails at opportune times to favor Trump over Hillary. They did not do the same to the RNC. Either they tried to and couldn't, didn't want to, or did and didn't get caught or release anything. Russia did the exact same thing this past week in the French election. Russia also produced a lot of real fake news and propaganda to sway the election for Trump.

The thing is, did Trump know about this at the time? Did he aid them or even give them the thumbs up to do all this? Any of that is likely highly illegal. It's not confirmed but there are a lot of circumstantial evidence that he (or at least his administration) did know and "colluded" with Russia to hack the DNC.

Flynn is the first confirmed illegal act. Before Trump's inauguration, Flynn violated the Logan Act and spoke to Russian diplomat about the sanctions President Obama placed on Russia. This is a violation because at the time, he did not actually hold a position at the WH yet. There is only one president at a time. But what's worse, he lied to Pence about it who then turned and told that lie to the media about it. Then recently it turned out that he took money from Russia illegally. You can't be a retired general with clearance and take money from a foreign aid. But most alarming is that Flynn's connection with Russia seems to be really strong.

Yates warned Trump about Flynn. Obama warned Trump about Flynn before he was even hired. However, did not fire him and Flynn kept his clearance until the media found out.

Sessions also lied under oath about never meeting with the same Russian diplomat during the election but then met with him twice.

Turns out many of the Trump administration has been meeting with Russians in foreign cities even during the election.

The unconfirmed dossier from an MI6 agent says Russia has dirt on Donald both financially and personally.

Trump won't release his tax returns which would shed some light on his dealings with Russia. (But not all).

Trump rarely attacks Putin on anything but seems to attack everybody else.

Trump has questions NATO and called it obsolete. NATO was originally formed to protect against Russia, and is still seen as anti-Russian.

Trump originally stated he wanted to work with Russia on fighting ISIS and not attacking Assaad. He has since turned on this issue and has attacked an airfield in Syria but it practically did nothing other than a show of force.

NOW, Trump fired the head of the FBI who was investigating the collusion. His timing and reasoning is EXTREMELY suspect.

They hacked the DNC servers and released damaging emails at opportune times to favor Trump over Hillary.

I still haven't seen anything to prove this, what is the source on it??

Exactly, not very trustworthy when the 2nd sentence in the whole thing is a flatout lie with no evidence to back it up.

His name was Seth Rich.

What has Seth Richs family said about the timing and circumstances of his death? If my son/brother died suspiciously, I would be all over the media talking about it

What evidence do you have that it was Seth Rich? The vague word of Julian Assange?

Yeah, the burden of proof for proving Russia meddled is high while the burden of proof on who they blame Seth Rich's death on is low. That's why I can't take anyone here seriously.

Half the time they're crying, "Where's the proof?!" and when it's convenient, they don't care so much about that proof, they're willing to make much bigger leaps.

The three intelligence agencies that confirmed it.

?

With what evidence? Why hasn't it been released? Seriously that one piece of evidence could literally destroy any doubt that most people have about the claim but AFAIK there has been absolutely nothing verifiable

Could it be possible that it is from classified methods?

Sure it could be. But inversely couldn't this argument be abused as a way to make allegations without any proof?

It's like throwing someone in jail for theft, then when someone asks how you know they did it, arguing that you can't tell them because if you told them then every thief would know and you wouldn't be able to stop thieves in the future.

When did we start throwing people in jail for crimes we cannot objectively prove they committed?

Is there any other time that one of the intelligence agencies has lied publicly like this?

And there is a difference between assigning blame and a conviction. Of course, we would need to the see the actual evidence to convict someone but to say that Russia did this is different from a conviction.

Is there any other time that one of the intelligence agencies has lied publicly like this?

This is sort of made an indisputable claim, because the basis of my argument is that we would never know if they have.

Though, to not simply escape the question one possible example is 9/11, more specifically the 28 pages that were declassified about a year ago.

And there is a difference between assigning blame and a conviction. Of course, we would need to the see the actual evidence to convict someone but to say that Russia did this is different from a conviction.

I agree with you that assigning blame is different than a conviction. However, in this instance peoples' opinions are being swayed by claims that have no evidence to support them. In a Democratic society I feel this is a large part of making a conviction, no?

Think of a jury, when they have made their opinion on a case they make a verdict. If guilty, there are repercussions. The verdict should not be based on unverifiable evidence, and it normally never is.

Essentially I'm saying that Americans are the jury in this case, their opinion is being swayed by unverifiable evidence, which in my example would ultimately lead to a verdict. The repercussions in this case would be future voting behavior.

"Iraq has weapons of mass destruction" "The Gulf of Tonkin was an attack by the Vietcong" "Osama Bin Laden and Al-Qaeda are behind the 9-11 terrorist attacks"

All lies.

1. Not the conclusion of the IC so much as the Republican administration that needed a war.

2. This time mostly the influence of a Democratic administration, but a better example.

3. Not gonna go into this one. People will believe what they want.

So these all seem to be examples of intelligence being used to promote the agenda of a sitting administration. How does that compare to this situation, where the IC appears to be directly investigating the sitting admin?

1. George Tenet said "slam dunk." The administration and intelligence community was staffed with yes-men and people who were already on board with the larger plan to attack Iraq that had been planned since before 9/11 by the Bush Administration.

2. Read "Killing Hope" by William Blum

3. Watch this

The larger agenda always goes through regardless of whatever Administration is in power. In this case, Iraq was the second of 7 planned targets that were picked out for war immediately following 9/11, and even earlier if you read the Project for a New American Century papers. Rest assured the administrations made sure they staffed the IC with loyalists and other neoconservatives/neoliberals that would go along with things smoothly. Vietnam War in general was part of a larger effort to fight proxy wars against Communist Russia and China while Rockefeller factories created weaponry to kill American GIs and created the drug trade in Southeast Asia to ship it back to America with the military and destroy our communities from within. 9/11 was part of a larger pretext to create a global war on terrorism to use as an excuse to invade and replace the last remaining sovereign nations that resisted the banking cartels, globalism or the will of Washington, London and the Vatican's New World Order. The various ICs of the world (at the leadership levels) are mainly tools of the elite who spy on the public, keep their politicians in check via blackmail (honeypots, pedo/Brownstone op), death threats, bribery, slander, defamation, assassinations, whatever.

No one has been thrown in jail yet. I know it's upsetting to hear "it's classified", but if you suspect the mother fucking United States President of a crime, you sure as shit better have your evidence lined up and solid before you tell the most powerful person in the world what you have.

We've seen this week what happens when a President wants to interfere with an investigation.

Then why even say anything about it until you have enough to book him?

They said a thing, must be true! /s

Do you not remember the hacks from over summer? The definitely happened. And we know it was Russia, there were traces of the hack attributed to the Russian equivalent of the FBI. This article explains it. link

These are the claims I've got from this article, not saying that these are the only claims, I may have misread or misunderstood some parts of the article;

The Justice Department’s indictment of five Chinese hackers noted that they worked 9-to-5 Shanghai time and took an hour off for lunch, while previous FBI scrutiny of a group of Russian hackers concluded that they worked Moscow hours and paused for Orthodox Christmas

...there’s strong substantiation not just of the reuse of tools and techniques between operations, but also of the reuse of hacking infrastructure. It seems the same computers that were used to break into the DNC were also used against other targets, such as the German Parliament — all cases attributed by a variety of investigators to Russia. The computer security community has been following these particular Russian hacking groups for years, and the DNC hack easily fits the pattern.

I don't read much into the work hours argument at its face, but coupled with the 2nd quote I provided it certainly raises suspicion.

My criticism though is that these arguments are hearsay. Show me proof of these claims instead of just someone making the claims. Once that happens I (and I'm sure many others) will start to see your side of things, but as of now we haven't seen any objective evidence.

The Russians definitely sided with Trump/Republicans during the 2016 election. That doesn't mean Trump or the Republican party conspired with Russia to hack the DNC. I mean maybe they did, but other than support for a hugely superfluous military industrial complex residing in each country, I don't know what Republicans have in common with Russian officials. Got any ideas?

First, it's pretty much confirmed that Russia meddled into the election. They hacked the DNC servers and released damaging emails at opportune times to favor Trump over Hillary.

Literally the second post in this thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6akhcc/theres_a_very_good_reason_why_rconspiracy_rejects/dhfc6nl/

Wow, I wonder what's more legit, a conspiracy users hunch or the full weight FBI

Nice appeal to authority. Still not evidence.

The same FBI that never saw the server? Just because you want it to be true really, really bad, isn't going to make it true.

Is your whole post here just to verify that your nsme checks out? Heh.

Damn novelty accounts.

First, it's pretty much confirmed that Russia meddled into the election. They hacked the DNC servers and released damaging emails at opportune times to favor Trump over Hillary.

The hell it is. After just the first sentence your username is relevant.

First, it's pretty much confirmed that Russia meddled into the election.

What does "pretty much confirmed" mean?

Whenever I see weasel words like this it gives me cause to pause.

THEY SPREAD FAKE NEWS! is truly the only big thing i've heard from it

The FBI is executing a search warrant on a GOP fundraising company as I type this. Reportedly its part of a RICO money laundering case involving the highest GOP pols. Given that just yesterday the Senate committee on the Russia thing requested stuff from the agency that monitors money laundering...

Its all going down right now. We will get our country back.

You mean the globalists you surrendered it to will get it back.

So that makes Trump a globalist. Gotcha.

Isn't it funny how everyone has just recently adopted the term globalist like a bunch of sheep.

That was when the whole "it's the RUSSIANS!!" Came about. Basically the MSM was getting balled out for not covering the leaks/emails/contents. So they invented a way to cover all hacked emails/leaks by blaming it on the Russians and thereby they cover their asses and also obfuscate the contents of whatever was reported. It's all total bullshit.

We all know that Russia hacked the election and dealing with that will be large and expensive. But this is specifically saying they need to more resources to look into the Trump Campaign.

What are you talking about? I don't know that at all, and I'm pretty sure you don't either. How did they hack the election, specifically?

No response

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Whoops. Fixed.

The "more resources were requested by Comey" is also confirmed to be completely fucking fake.

Sauce: http://www.dailywire.com/news/16340/fake-news-acting-fbi-director-says-no-new-funding-hank-berrien From Deputy Director McCabe himself, i.e., one of the "muh Russia" peoples' personal heroes.

One of the fake news stories the MSM was running and all the shills were pushing:

• http://www.latimes.com/politics/washington/la-na-essential-washington-updates-comey-asked-for-more-resources-for-1494434774-htmlstory.html

I also heard for the first time the other day Russia spread fake news during election time. I'm not sure what they were referring to. I'd like to know.

There are 4 actual posters in this sub...

2 are from /r/T_D, 1 is from shareblue, and there's a random dude who believes the earth is flat.

Have fun figuring out which is which

made my day! great summary :-D

which one are you?

which one are you?????

sweet, see you at the shareblue company picnic next week! =p

'pedes out ;)

I could smell it right when I walked in.

If people use critical thinking, then who the fuck cares whose saying what? Don't point figures, bring the community together instead of tearing it apart.

Schrodinger's Poster.

Coming from a frequent t_D poster, I'd take that with a grain of salt...

Especially since this sub does not "reject" any narrative. We do not "reject" even flat earthers, we just put them in the fringe file.

OMG dude stop shilling for the spherical earth alright? Everyone knows that if the earth was really round all of the water on earth would eventually drain down to the South Pole.

kek

Stop attacking people for where they post.. It's low, an it doesn't contribute any substance.

True. Apologies.
But going into every single comment/post and stringing together a profile of people is very tiring, and resorting to stereotypes is a readily available shortcut.

But going into every single comment/post and stringing together a profile of people is very tiring,

Yeah, which is one of the many reasons you shouldn't do it, in addition to the fact that it makes you look like a tool because it clearly illustrates you have no valid argument and must resort to ad hominems.

Well that's a little hypocritical, isn't it?

lol @ him calling you a tool (which you could almost say is stringing together a profile of you) whilst advocating against that very thing

One of the funnier moments of the last few days. Still not as funny as people going mad thinking they found spirit cooking in the Macron emails.

Coming from a frequent t_D poster, I'd take that with a grain of salt...

You people are cancer. You're what's wrong with Reddit.

You just immediately went into this guy's post history to come up with a SHITTY ad hominem attack against him, because you have zero argument and you fucking know it.

It's pathetic and disgusting. Grow up.

You just immediately went into this guy's post history to come up with a SHITTY ad hominem attack against him, because you have zero argument and you fucking know it.

Oh, hey. It's you! The guy who made an entire post on /r/conspiracy that went into peoples' post histories to come up with shitty ad hominem attacks against them.

Hahahahahahah what a fucking hypocrite.

boom got em

Wholly fuck. That is the most thorough BTFO I've ever witnessed.

Hear hear, fuck that. It's a tactic to squelch debate.

Except the due your replying to, made an entire post that was just that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6aj3eb/did_a_simple_analysis_of_a_recent_post

No, When did I say that? It's shit both ways. It signals that you can't argue past ad hominems.

Lol how embarrassing for you

Wow, I bet you feel stupid now.

You just immediately went into this guy's post history to come up with a SHITTY ad hominem attack against him, because you have zero argument and you fucking know it.

Heh, that's funny. Like pot-calling-kettles-black funny. Because that's exactly what you did when you came at me yesterday. You're a nuisance.

It's almost scary at how angry they get too when all you ask for is proof.

I was going through the posts today on the front page of Conspiracy, and once again, it's filled with replies that are angry, condescending, and thread derailing while only offering opinions, not fact. Opinions are perfectly fine! But lately they have been stated while being a condescending jerk. If you didn't agree with the stated opinion, you were basically an idiot.

The politic threads are over powering everything. There is an actual thread with a conspiracy that just happened to be politic related, but does not involve "Russia is world killer" narrative and of course, it was derailed immediately.

If anything, replying to threads more often lately, with my one & only account, it is teaching me that I really shouldn't care when my karma drops lol.

I use to take it personally for some reason. but eh, it's means nothing, at least I feel better replying to people when things are getting out of hand :)

If anything, replying to threads more often lately, with my one & only account, it is teaching me that I really shouldn't care when my karma drops lol.

Right? In all the years I've been on reddit, this is the only place where my karma has ever nosedived. At first I was really surprised and offended, especially because I'm never hateful or overtly rude. But it's an entirely different ballgame in this sub, so I don't even pay attention to my karma anymore. It's nice.

My thing is just the falsity of the parrotted claim itself:

Russia Hacked the Election

They couldn't even resist squeezing a lie into the most basic part of it.

Right on. But they have to keep parroting that lie. It's their only out, their Trump card...the Russians weren't doing anything our intelligence agencies don't also do, and the stupid DNC and Podesta fell for their phishing scam. Case closed. Lesson learned. Get over it!

Nevermind the role of CambridgeAnalytica and AggregateIQ and their Russian connections. Nevermind no Trump financials forthcoming nor anything about his business history with the Russian mob. Nevermind that Jeff Sessions had to recuse himself from the Russian investigation but then turned around and recommended the President fire the top investigator. Nevermind that the Senate still wants to question Jared Kushner about his shady real estate financing business in 2016 with a Russian bank under U.S. sanctions. Nevermind that Trump's former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, also managed Putin's deposed strongman in Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, plus the fortune of Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, who was denied a visa to the USA for ties to organized crime. Nevermind that a Trump server was connected to the largest private commercial bank in Russia, Alfa Bank, founded and principally owned by Mikhail Fridman, a Russian Jewish oligarch with Israeli citizenship and close ties to both Vladimir Putin and Benjamin Netanyahu. Nevermind that Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, as CEO of Exxon, was busy doing multi-billion dollar deals with the Russian firm Rosneft, allowing Exxon access to the Russian Arctic, Siberia, and Russia’s far east.. Nevermind what Flynn knew and when Trump knew it, too. Nevermind that Comey violated the Hatch Act by announcing new evidence in the Clinton email scandal the week before the election, and then backtracking and admitting there was no new evidence just two days before the election. Nevermind all of that. Just keep repeating:

The Russian hackers didn't do anything our intelligence agencies don't also do, and the stupid DNC and Podesta simply fell for their phishing scam. Case closed.

Part of the issue is that a lot of people (including myself at one point) disbelieve the Russia narrative purely because they love Trump (which is what the deep state wants you to do; use emotion, not logic).

Its important to realize that you can dislike Trump AND use some logic and realize the fallacies with the Russian claims.

At the end of the day, all you need to do is picture yourself being in the driver seat. Ask yourself, "if i had all of the money and power, and I could harness all of the intelligence agencies, how would I unequivocally solve this problem?"

And then ask "why aren't THEY doing that?"

Because they aren't trying to solve the problem - it is a totally manufactured argument to get you emotionally invested on either side

For me, the hypocrisy is pretty funny. Hillary was firmly in the pocket of the Saudis, UAE, and their cohorts through the Clinton Foundation. But the democrats are kicking and screaming about a possibility of influence by a different foreign power (and the influence, if any, is far more vague than the "worst-kept secret" Clinton Fkundation stuff). It goes to show what emotion will do - no one cares about the principle as long as your "side" was the beneficiary.

Precisely - for the longest time, I was logically blinded by my emotional disdain for Hillary - but when Trump won, I never really felt satisfied some reason - so I kept digging. And now, I feel like I can see the bigger picture and I have a better understanding of the game that they're playing.

But the way to win the game isn't just to sit back and analyze their moves - the only way to win is to take initiative to imagine a world that you would prefer to live in; and then gain the educational and technological prowess to make it happen

Or, at least understand that the game is afoot and play it the best you can. Remember, you don't have to beat the elites to live well, you just have to beat the other 80%, which, quite frankly, is t all that tough.

Haha i don't enjoy competing against my fellow oppressed. I'll tell ya- I've never felt more impassioned about anything until I realized that this fight was actually ongoing. I wish i had more time, money and cunning to become a real competitor against the aristocracy

Hillary was firmly in the pocket of the Saudis, UAE, and their cohorts through the Clinton Foundation

How was that supposed to work exactly?

As in, what was the payment/reward?

I see this all over the place (not so much since the election) and the general idea seems to be that since governments donated to the CF there must be something nefarious going in. That's as specific as it tends to get.

Which is to say, total crap.

No there is actually a lot of specific x action taken after y donation made kind of stuff. In fact, your not being aware of it simply shows that you haven't been looking at all.

Show one?

Russian company Uranium One's chairman frank Guistra donated $2.5m to the Clinton foundation while Hillary was sec of state. At the same time, Bill was paid $500k for a speech to the bank financing Uranium One.

Uranium One was given control over 20% of US uranium. Since uranium is a strategic resource with national security issues tied to it, the deal had to be approved by the Secretary of State. Hillary Clinton approved the deal and sold off a fifth of our uranium.

Weren't there nine departments involved in signing off on that?

Wasn't Hillary's State Department a major one?

Less major than say, Treasury, which actually could have vetoed.

House of Saud donates millions to CF, HrC approves billions in weapons deals.

Whereas trump approving a deal now means......what?

You need to provide more quid pro quo

That we are still beholden to Saudi Arabia because of the petrodollar agreement.

You need to do your own research. There's plenty out there. If you're curious, look. If not, then admit your partisanship comes before your desire to know the truth.

That we are still beholden to Saudi Arabia because of the petrodollar agreement.

Then how is it that Clinton approving arms deals is evidence of something else?

You need to do your own research.

Don't be so patronising.

If not, then admit your partisanship comes before your desire to know the truth.

I'm just questioning your reasoning here.

No need for drama

You're not genuinely curious. You're here for another reason.

Also friend Trump and now have nothing to do with Hillary then. Let's stay on topic and not deflect and distract from the issue at hand, Hillary's extensive and well documented corruption which ultimately lost her the election.

Your only example of this apparently well documented corruption is SA.

When I ask you to explain it to our say we're getting distracted.

You're deflecting with Trump. Trump is always the trump card for Hillary apologists.

Hillary is the most corrupt politician in America.

How can you say she is "the most corrupt" when your example is her approving a sale that Trump is also making?

First of all, the sale itself isn't the issue, the corresponding donation is the issue. Trump may be making the same sale, but the House Of Saud didn't donate millions of dollars to him. He did it for free, which is in some ways worse, some ways better (and I hate the guy.)

Secondly, it's because it is one instance of quid pro quo in a decades long history of the same. Part of that is politics, but again, the Clintons take it to a whole new level.

House Of Saud didn't donate millions of dollars to him.

We have literally know way to know this, particularly considering Trump has a massive and opaque international real estate empire.

Hillary apologists trump card is always "What about Trump he's so much worse!"

Hillary has decades of history. Hillary and her cronies in the DNC lied, cheated, stole and rigged the primary from Bernie.

It was her turn! ;(

So glad she's a nobody now. Good riddance.

We don't know that he didn't but we do know that she did.

Let me guess, you think campaign donations don't affect politicians' votes, either.

I mean, where's the written explicit quid pro quo agreement, right?

I'm saying that drawing dramatic conclusions from incomplete evidence is something I'm sure you have disagreed with in the past.

Deflecting and defending corruption seems to be your bag, professional concern troll. We're done here. I'm not playing your game.

So where is Trump's first international visit planned to....o yeah! UAE. Isn't is possible they're BOTH pieces of shit??

They are in the highest level of politics possible. Isn't that assumed of both of them?

Yes.

But on the flip side, Republicans are kicking and screaming about Hillary and the UAE, but it is completely far fetched to many of them Trump would be conspiring with Russia for political and business gains.

I might have misunderstood and we have been agreeing.

Yeah, you'll have your die-hands on both sides. I voted Trump for his policies and anti-left anti-SJW rhetoric. I was hopeful he wouldn't turn out to be corrupt like the others, but I guess we'll see, and I'll reserve judgment until we know (if we ever do). When accosted by Hillary supporters, my go to line was "I know Hillary's crooked, Trump might not be, and even if he is, the difference comes down to who you like from a policy standpoint".

But what policies did you even like from the guy?

6 year ban on congressmen returning as lobbyists, pushing a constitutional amendment for congressional term limits (laugh, I know, long shot), extreme vetting of new immigrants, deportation of illegals, renegotiating NAFTA, terminating involvement in Trans-Pacific potential agreement, allowing the keystone pipeline, etc.

I never got the immigration stuff, Obama deported more illegals than Bush and increased the vetting process, along with a legal immigrant has not committed a terrorist attack here anyway, didn't see Hillary backing away from any of that. It always felt like a hot button issue that never even needed much attention.

I get why people could vote for , but he's so very anti-globalist and I just don't realistically think that is ever possible again with the invention of the internet and continuous intertwining of societies. But I could never vote for Trump him on his scientific and environmental takes alone.

To each their own.

I never got the immigration stuff, Obama deported more illegals than Bush

Apparently he was deporting the wrong ones. This is stuff that should have been done long ago.

very anti-globalist and I just don't realistically think that is ever possible

Be the change you want to be. It is possible and it is worth fighting for else you give in and accept your fate as grist for the mill in service of the elites.

his scientific and environmental takes alone.

By science, I assume you mean climate change. Few folks disagree that climate change isn't real and most will concede that it might even be human created. The part that doesn't fly is the solution always involves giving money to some other humans that don't know how to fix it either. For some reason they all seem to be similarly affiliated also.

Don't be fooled, 'climate change' is a multi-billion dollar growth industry and like any other industry they are going to churn out whatever propaganda that supports their end game. As usual, normal folks are caught in the middle with incomplete information and being manipulated by both sides.

Good rule in life is that it should be a big warning sign when the primary recruiting slogan is "you're stupid if you disagree".

For the environment, I'm looking forward to the EPA going back to focusing on the obvious stuff; anyone remember what a superfund site is? Anyone think it might be good to stop virtue signally about carbon credits and get some clean water to Flint?

Unfortunately I don't have time to go into a climate change lesson, but if you do your own research, good for you. And don't be fooled, fossil fuel is a billion dollar long standing industry wanting to churn out whatever alternative facts to keep it alive. I work heavily in sciences and pay attention as closely as I can to these things.

or the environment, I'm looking forward to the EPA going back to focusing on the obvious stuff; anyone remember what a superfund site is? Anyone think it might be good to stop virtue signally about carbon credits and get some clean water to Flint?

This is kinda ironic, really, their funding is getting slashed left and right and you're looking for them to fix MORE things. Why don't you look at where that money is going? The defense and weapons industry. Like always. Clean water is something we have had for a long time, local city government knows how to fix Flint, so why don't they? As your link even said...the EPA seems quite busy already cleaning up our toxic messes.

And finally, I'll leave you with a story.

Good rule in life is that it is a big warning sign when the primary recruiting slogan is "you're stupid if you disagree"

There's a local quarry by me, awesome little place. Nice little wading area, a 30 foot rock to jump off of, plenty of places to sprawl out. It is a real melting pot there too; hippies, bussinessmen, rich, poor, black, white, asian. Everyone goes there because it is so close to downtown you can make it there from the local college and back in-between a class, or lunch break. Dogs come along, some people grill out, swim, drink, do drugs, pretty much whatever is good as long as you aren't an ass hole to others. Now on the far end, there's a massive ledge, hundreds of feet from water to top of the cliff. The only way to get up there is by driving along a back road and of course there's a million and a half "do not jump" signs located up there, everyone I ever talked to at that quarry says somebody tries to jump up and every single time dies because there's old mining equipment below the surface where if the impact doesn't kill you, a broken back and inability to swim will. You can't get away from hearing this, sit anywhere in the quarry for 10 minutes and someone will bring up a death that happened recently from someone jumping off. It is a well known fact you should not jump off the top of that cliff, or you will die.

So what happened a few weeks ago. Someone went up to the top, jumped off, and died.

Sometimes trying to out think everyone else is as stupid as it sounds.

Thanks for the reply and info.

FWIW, I looked deeper into the quarry story and was surprised to see how prevalent the problem was. There are even places that acknowledge 'quarry jumping season'.

Thank you for clearly elaborating on this. "Mainstream consipracy" is an oxymoron and should be overwhelmingly rejected by this sub. It's clear as day that the Russia narrative is pushed by TPTB.

TPTD

Google won't tell me what this is?

TPTB == the powers that be

I don't think you're clear on the meaning of the word "conspiracy". They absolutely can be mainstream.

If the MSM wants you to believe something so much that they spend 6 months spamming millions of dollars worth of articles about it, and they still can't actually provide literally one piece of evidence for their "theory", it's brainwashing.

They're not spending money, they're making money. This is perpetuated by ad algorithms telling the media to run these stories because it gets clicks and views. It'd fruit of the poison tree.

A conspiracy is a conspiracy. This isn't /r/HiddenConspiracy (huh, that's a real sub). So even if it's a "mainstream conspiracy", I still want to know how and why the dots connect. Once we all know that, we can move on. Until then, I think it's lame to claim it's not worth exploring for any reasons.

There's also this:

https://twitter.com/pamela_moore13/status/862107590003748864

Thank you Mr Thoughtpolice. Please let me know if any other conspiracies is wrongthink and should ignored.

Nice straw man.

How is it a straw man argument? The OP clearly said that this is something that's "hardly the sort of thing to discuss here. Unless you're "pushing" the narrative."

Seriously, flat earth, alien visitation, etc. But Trump-Russia, that is where we should draw the line for what shouldn't be discussed here?

I say to hell with that. Trump-Russia is a conspiracy and should be allowed to be discussed within a conspiracy subreddit without being accused of pushing a narrative.

... Why should you be free from accusations that you're pushing a narrative?

Flat earthers are pushing a narrative

9/11 truthers are pushing a narrative

Pedogaters are pushing a narrative

So are Neomccarthyists with this russia shit. The difference is only one of these narratives is also being pushed by the mainstream media.

The trump russia one - which means there are plenty of places to discuss it outside of here. The value of /r/conspiracy to me is that one is allowed to express ideas not promulgated by the news media 24/7.

If the narrative you are pushing is also backed by corporate media and mainstream politicians, its probably bullshit

Subreddit sidebar:

This is a forum for free thinking and discussing issues which have captured the public’s imagination. Please respect other views and opinions, and keep an open mind. Our goals are a fairer, more transparent world and a better future for everyone.

We are discussing issues that have "captured the public's imagination." All we're saying is that this subreddit shouldn't be simply repeating the MSM narrative as if that's the truthful perspective.

Anyone who has read the so called evidence knows it is all hot air. The joint intelligence report with handwaving about bears and calling Russian Times reporting on US police violence and the pitfalls of the two party system, literally hacking the election. Or the totally debunked Hillary funded CrowdStrike, the only humans ever to inspect the hacked DNC server, report waving its hands about bears again, then the attempt to save it with a report ThreatConnect (Fidelis) trying to fix the debunked parts of the CrowdStrike's hand waving. It all started with the exposed as fake piss dossier long before the election. Now that it is almost a year old FBI investigation, it seems thoroughly debunked. There just is no evidence.

I can't even keep track of what it even is anymore the goalposts move so fast.

I find it funny how it gains a little steam here. Suddenly trumpets are losing thier mind trying to protect thier big orange dad from this.

Really reminiscent of the republicans with Nixon during his time.

If it's so proven, why don't you provide literally a single piece of evidence supporting your MSM-supplied narrative?

Oh that's right, you literally can't because there isn't any.

Your comment is r/iamverysmart material.

Thanks man. I try hard to stay well read and educated on current debate topics. Glad you can see how smart I am friend :).

Flynn, Manafort, Sessions...

Them not releasing it yet doesn't mean there is nothing. Why would the MSM find out all the evidence? The FBI hasn't even gathered all the evidence yet. They are raiding multiple businesses connected with Trump and Russia today, though.

Why do right wingers keep screaming for evidence? It's how investigation works, you fucking investigate all the ties before you start telling everyone about facts and evidence. They sure do seem to have plenty considering it is still ongoing and escalating.

Big Orange Dad : )

Lmfao! Nixon, check! Almost have a full talking-head bingo card.

Let's completely forget about Nixon spying on his political enemies because that would be too reminiscent of Obama.

Russia is being used as a wedge issue to keep up the illusion both parties and the media aren't on the same page.

The more regular people on both sides fight and focus on Russia the easier it is for TPTB to slide legislation through and continue their corruption.

They only have about 1000 other subs where they could discuss their pet "conspiracy" (LOL laughable to even call it that) across Reddit, too.

+1 OP, this shit is getting fucking absurd with so many shills pushing "MUH RUSSIA" narrative without even a single piece of credible information to back up their so-called "theory".

Usually it's just them mindlessly vomiting MSM talking points.

I did not realize that you speak for all users of this sub.
Guess I'd better stop thinking for myself and get on board with your narrative.

Possible motive to just get the headline onto the front page like a KEEP OUT sign for people looking into the theory.

It's all a distraction. The MSM spends an entire week talking about some new irrelevant update in the story.

I honestly can't fathom how people watch hours of the MSM a day.

I don't like Trump. He is not going to be impeached and this is all just a distraction.

Does anybody think this shit is genuine? If it was genuine do you know how easy it would be to get to the bottom of whatever illegally happened and then impeach Trump?

The media covers sone quote from some irrelevant person for an entire week and people eat it up. Meanwhile in that same time period we have spent billions and killed a few hundred innocent people in other countries. Let's keep talking about November 8th though.

Former-ish Trump supporter here. I have been brainstorming with my super liberal mother about the situation. We think that those around Trump have had the dealings with Russia, ensuring victory at all cost.

Whether Trump himself knows of it, we are unsure, but we would be surprised if Russia hadn't tried to do so. For some perspective, I have no doubt the US does the same thing.

On the other hand, I am a strong strong supporter of the idea that the DNC leaks were the work of an insider. Based on the process and fingerprints involved in the leaks. Overall motive: we think the Russians did it because Putin hates Hillary (almost more than I do lol).

This seems pretty likely at this point. Who knows if Trump was actually involved, but there's an obvious cover-up going on.

Because it is still developing. This is all under a year old, really. Trumps relationships become more and more apparent every day and every time he says/does anything.

Depending on how you choose to look at it, we're wayyy beyond "Russia hacking the election". A better title would be "Possible traitors in the White House that have sold out the American people, complete with paper trails and money trails."

It's still a conspiracy theory, as it hasn't been proven yet, but one would think on a Sub like this, that LOVES to dissect every little fucking thing, and even create shit where it doesn't exist, one would think that this sub would be ALL OVER this shit. There's so much red tape that can be pulled out, it's almost shameful that this particular sub isn't having a field day with a global conspiracy like this. It's depressing that all that ever gets brought up is stupid shit about vaccines, Hillary, and a couple people who have died under "mysterious" circumstances.

Lmfao! Where were you the last 8 years? Fast and Furious, Tea Party targeting by IRS, exchange five terrorist generals for one deserter, pay billions to Iran in cash to get around sanctions, arming al-qaeda in Syria, over throwing Ghadaffi for no reason... I could go on and on about traitors in the Whitehouse selling out the American people with paper and money trails. Get over yourself and learn some CONTEMPORARY history at the very least.

what the hell are you on about? Your comment is completely offbase, and has zero relevancy. Is this how you have a discussion with someone? lmao

Holy shit you people make me laugh! You know you're wrong and when people bring up facts you divert.

I asked where your outrage was when the last president was proven to have abused his power and commited treason. Seeing as how you're accusing the current president with ZERO proof, I brought up the last president whom we have tons of proof on, I'd say that's relevant.

How can I have a discussion with someone who parrots the TV without a thought of their own? You are unwilling to acknowledge that there is no evidence Trump colluded with Russia even though Comey and Clapper both said there was none.

Keep living in your fantasy world and get triggered when President Donald John Trump serves out two full terms.

abused his power and commited treason.

Source? Most of us didn't like Obama either, but he was never implicated for Treason, and never had as shady of shit going on as Trump does right now.

Running guns to cartels in exchange for cash to continue black wars is treason. Exchanging a known deserter with no use for five high ranking, extremely dangerous generals is treasonous. Going around sanctions put in place by Congress and sending BILLIONS OF US DOLLARS IN CASH ON PALLETS to Iran is treasonous. I could go on and on but you don't understand what treason actually is.

You armchair political scientists have no grasp on reality. You ignore FACTS that directly affect the global landscape and cling to BS propagated by a corrupt media with nothing more than hearsay that does nothing more than divert your attention.

Tell me what hard evidence of "shady shit" do you base your argument on? The false claim that "17 intelligence agencies agree?" Even though they include the DoE and Coast Guard, and not a single one of them released an official statement in the matter? That Manafort and Flynn had Russian dealings, and the moment Trump found out he got rid of them? The FACT that both COMEY and CLAPPER both testified before CONGRESS that there was ZERO evidence of collusion? That after more than a year's worth of data collection and investigations there hasn't been a single shred of evidence presented to the public, other than by the private company with strong ties to the Clinton camp whom the DNC brought in over the FBI under Obama; who by the way have had to come out with major retractions.

But none of these FACTS matter do they because you FEEL good listening to Colbert and Maher and laughing at the Cheeto Drumpf? Forget about Obama's extrajudicial drone striking of American citizens, let's spin Drumpf trying to do something Muslim countries do into somehow being anti-Muslim. Let's forget about Clinton brokering the Uranium One deal to sell 20% of our uranium to Russia (total coincidence her campaign manager had 75k shares in the company) and spin Drumpf wanting to go the peaceful route with Russia into him somehow both working for Russia and also wanting WW3 with Russia.

Either you're a shill doing a shitty job, or you're being 100% sincere and I weep for you.

Whataboutism

Dumbfuckery

It hasn't been proven yet because there is no proof

NSA is recording all phone calls and internet traffic

If there was proof it would be all over the front page

You could apply this logic to every single theory in this thread.

It's interesting that some people want to shut down the investigation. Let's protect God-emporer at all costs while he plays golf and laughs at the plebes defending him. Let the investigation play out and let the chips fall where they may. Firing the 3 people who are investigating is pretty damn suspicious not to mention Flynn asking for immunity.

You can hate Trump while still understanding that the claims that Russia hacked the election are ridiculous.

The fact that this psychotic sub "rejects" it is fairly good reason for me to give the theory credence, and take another look at the evidence.

Removed. Rule 10.

There's no evidence at all and even Comey admitted it?

The Panama Papers prove the Podesta has a financial relationship with Russia. He submitted an LD 1 disclosure form to Congress after the leak that also proves this connection. Money pours out of Sberbank, into RAS Corporate Services, through Troika Dialog and into Podesta's pocket.

That is just one avenue of payment. Still off the books and as of yet unreported is the arrangement to hide shares of Uranium One in Joule, and then give 100,000 shares (25,000 per year) to Podesta into his daughter's company, Leonidas LLC.

This is just a slice. The Clinton Foundation worked with Kazatomprom CEO (who was later arrested) and was paid millions for arranging a obfuscation scheme with Frank Giustra.

Frank Giustra got Kazatomprom uranium and put it in Uranium One. Then, he shut down Uranium One, sold all its assets to his canadian mining firm, then changed the name of his mining firm to Uranium One.

What is now Uranium One is actually not at all what the original was. Keep in mind, their quarterlies are published. The amount of money involved is staggering.

What no one is looking into is this deal and how many US politicians got paid. It was likely both sides of the aisle and it was likely hundreds of US officials who profited from this deal.

The real Russian investigation is right there, but no one is looking into it because the news wants everyone to think Trump is the one who is doing these things.

Pro-tip.... he's not. Not that I trust Kushner any further than you can throw him, but we already know who sluts out for Russian rubles and it mostly consists of Democrats and people surrounded by convicted pedophiles.

Spot on. There's so many examples like that of corruption and collusion where the evidence is already public and easy to connect. We even have a lot of it in their own words from wikileaks emails.

Is anything being done about it? How can anyone take the Russian narrative serious when easily provable corruption like that is ignored? It's all political theatre they're feeding to us, so far.

I figured because it was all pure insanity. I never once bought it as it reeked of desperation and fraud. How anyone thought it was real is beyond my understanding at this time.

The media attacking him is the main reason so many of his most ardent supporters still believe a thing he says. The media is part of the military industrial complex and I don't think they have any problems with Trump other than his seeming reluctance to go against putin.

We reject the Russia-Trump narrative of the liberal left because it's a crock of shit.

As if Fox News and the pro Trump idiocy somehow isn't mainstream media

You can reject the "Hillary lost because Russia Hacked the Elections" narrative and still be concerned that our government officials are receiving bribes from foreign officials and agencies. You can be pissed off with the Clinton Foundation receives donations from Saudi Arabia among many other countries, and still be pissed off that Michael Flynn is accepting money from RT, Turkey, Ukraine, among others. The real conspiracy here is how posts like this only serve to further the divide because they appeal to partisan politics. It is OK to hate both the Democratic and Republican parties. Because ultimately they are one in the same, they are both the Corporatist Party. Simply rejecting anything the MSM says, and automatically believing whatever the opposite of the MSM says is far too simplistic of an approach for overly complicated situations. Its like saying everything RT posts is the truth because its the opposite of the American MSM rhetoric. Both are propaganda. Simply believing the opposite of propaganda doesn't guarantee that what you believe isn't propaganda. Finding the truth requires complex thinking, reading between the lines and constantly searching for facts and evidence. If you stray too far into partisan politics you'll end up confused and your arguments will be illogical.

The best reply in this whole thread and your only at +6, lol. This thread riled up both sides.

The divide and conquer strategy seems to be working swimmingly in this country. It's only by rejecting both parties that you can begin to look at politics rationally.

Well stated.

Thank you.

Simply rejecting anything the MSM says, and automatically believing whatever the opposite of the MSM says is far too simplistic of an approach for overly complicated situations. Its like saying everything RT posts is the truth because its the opposite of the American MSM rhetoric. Both are propaganda.

Kind of amazing that this sub now subscribes to this exactly. Quite strange.

Sure, if you actually could provide even a single shred of evidence to back up this MSM narrative you're pushing so hard.

But you can't, and they haven't.

Suddenly in the past hour, the top comments in a 10-hour old thread are all by the same people tagged with the same red 'libtard' tag despite all the actual information in the thread.

Tagging names is the best thing that ever happened to reddit. Always the same accounts, always the same story, always the same wording, moving as a pack, mass voting, always the MSM narrative...I guess I should be thankful it's so obvious.

Real people actually use the term "libtard" in real life? Lol. Apparently equally trashing both sides makes you a libtard in your world view, TD Troll. What a strange place your mind must be.

What have I said would lead you to believe I am pushing an "MSM narrative" as you say? I trash on both sides equally. Last I checked saying that both the Democrats and the Republicans are no different, and are essentially the same Corporatist Party is nothing you would ever hear uttered on a single American MSM news channel ever. I have no agenda, I have no invested interest is trying to manipulate and persuade people. This is how I view the world, this is how I look at politics, I treat both sides as they truly are. This is not the kind of discussion you see on r/politics or r/news etc and that's why Comey and Trump's various other antics get discussed on this sub, for a fresh different perspective, where lots of people recognize that partisan politics are bullshit and are the reason we keep fighting among ourselves.

This should be stated over and over and over in this sub. So right on.

I hate both sides! They are both war profiteering scum, with different tactics to abuse federal power.

the source from the Russian narrative came solely from Clinton's camp and is heavily pushed by Clinton controlled media outlets.

Why?

Because there are very REAL links between Clinton and Co. and Russians and probably not the kind of Russians Putin would like.

Not to mention, she accused Bernie Sanders of the same thing during the primaries. I don't see how anyone can take it seriously when it's MO.

It's not about "Clinton controlled media outlets" covering for Hillary's possible connections with Russia. It's the people that control Clinton and both parties pushing this Russian/Republican conspiracy.

The Russians didn't do anything to expose Trump, so clearly they're in bed with Republicans. The question we should be asking is the one the media won't ask: what interests do Republicans share with Russians?

It could be as simple as needing an excuse for Hillary's loss other than Hillary's vote for the Iraq war. This is a military conspiracy, like all political conspiracies.

That and the fact there would be some sort of... You know, evidence.

It makes for a very easy shill/"useful idiot" test.

Do you parrot the MSM's narrative? If so, you're not a veteran conspiracy poster.

I got proof of collusion!!!! Right here!!! You can't see it but I got it and it's real.

So you're saying 'because fake news'.

Is the term not BOOGEYman?

WATCH FOR THE 4 D's!!!!

JTRIG's ultimate purpose, as defined by GCHQ in the document, is to use "online techniques to make something happen in the real world or cyber world." These online covert actions follow the “4 D's:” deny, disrupt, degrade, deceive.

https://www.rt.com/news/five-eyes-online-manipulation-deception-564/

I find myself automatically rejecting outright anything that the MSM seems to be pushing these days. And since the election they are pushing harder than I've ever seen before.

You're right. Best to blindly trust Russian state media!

So, this comment seems like it's accusatory, but it's actually fairly sophomoric.

Jesus Fucking Christ. Accusatory and sophomoric aren't in the least contradictory. What point are you trying to make apart from trying desperately to sound intelligent?

If you want to see clear, in your face interference with US elections, look at AIPAC and Israel.

Or would that be antisemitic?

They hate Russia because RT didn't help them with their propaganda and didn't try to bury the Veritas and Wikileaks stories.

Yes I'm someone who didn't vote for trump, and don't support trump now, but I also don't support the establishment, and this Russia narrative is a fever dream from the establishment. Just think about how much they try and string together, Bernie bros apparently didn't like Hillary because of Russian propaganda, the GOP primaries co-opted by the Russians also, and I guess the Russians were the ones who told HRC too focus media attention on trump, the Russians did brexit, the Russians almost got Le Pen elected, the Russians are Wikileaks, the list goes on and on, and IMO it's designed to keep people from focusing on the real issue, the executive branch has way too much unchecked power, and the administrative state has turned the rest of the republic into a joke.

My issue with the Trump-Russia narrative is the first bit - the modern American government wants to push Russia as the villain for doing the things that they do themselves internationally via the CIA and locally via the FBI. If we are to hold Russia accountable for hacking and attempted manipulation of the voting process, then we must hold the CIA accountable first, as they have a longer and bloodier history of it. American exceptionalism cannot be the rule when it comes to international diplomacy, as it will be actively protested by any legitimate foreign government by principle - and when that is not the case, the CIA usually ends up being involved, as revealed decades later. There is a good reason Iran is suspicious of the American government, and all people have equal right to hold these suspicions.

Give this man a badge.

Consider that they include in the official report these 2 examples of RT propaganda :

Fracking

US Third Party candidates

Fracking has been widely covered by american media outlets and scientific studies have found countless dangers that are all well documented.

This is not propaganda just because RT aired it.

Third party candidates? Are you fucking kidding me? Shouldn't this be the other way around in that US MSM outlets not giving adequate coverage are ultimately guilty of propaganda by not giving these people air time?

Same with Grab the pussy... They had the grab the pussy tapes for a long time and strategically conspired with the debate moderators and Hillary to try to ambush Trump. That's all on record, verified, proven and is a clear example of outside forces attempting to influence the election.

Nbc, Hillary and the debate mods are not "outside" forces. You can still be upset about what they did, but it is not the same as a foreign country meddling in our elections.

The media outlet, and whoever owns it is the outside force... And I'm not upset.. why would I be upset? They provided an outlandish example of how not to behave during a presidential election.

The media outlet, likely a clinton backer, held on to the tape and coordinated with the debate moderator so as to open the debate talking about it and trying to pull some gotcha bullshit on trump. They didn't realize that you simply don't gotcha the trump though.

Now... back to all that russian jazz of which there's apparently no evidence of.

Yeah but here's the catch 22.... Not everything the mainstream news pushes is wrong just because they push it.

Personally I think that Russia was not involved in most hacks.

I think what the investigation will show, and what takes down Trump and his cronies, will be the business deals made prior to being elected.

Which is ironically overlooked in all of these "can't talk about Russia here, go to /r/politics" threads. Of course, it's not ironic at all to anyone paying attention.

So because the media was pushing the Watergate scandal it wasn't true? Because the media pushed Iran-Contra beginnings it wasn't true? I get it, the media is the bad guy. But not everything they say is untrue.

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Or maybe it's because the mods of this subreddit are The_Donald shills.

I reject the narrative because Clapper himself rejects the narrative.

makes no sense even as a theory (i.e.: what is the difference between what Russia has alleged to do and what all other countries and corporations do...

So your arguing that's it's common and easy, but russia totally didn't do it?

Why is it that most arguments against the russia theory are more that it doesn't matter than it didn't happen. I can't even tell if it's cognative dissonance or well crafted prapoganda

It's both; the propaganda feeds narratives crafted to help those experiencing dissonance confront those who cause it. Well-prepared talking points which are difficult to refute - not being rooted in logic or reason.

It can be both. Somebody with cognative dissonance repeating the propoganda they have read

Its nothing but a mainstream conspiracy theory. It's kind of interesting that this sub seems very suspicious of it.

The other interesting thing about Russiagate is has all the hallmarks of what people accuse conspiracies in general having - flimsy evidence, jumping to conclusions, etc.

I'll tell you the number one reason I know it's bullshit:

They used it to connect her up the DNC leaks before trump was even involved.

We now know these leaks were all real.

A fatal mistake

This probably wont get much visibility since I'm 6 hours late, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a tie in. If anybody gets a chance, find the "putin system" video online. It goes into detail about the disinformation campaign they started in Russia and how effective it was. Basically, so much news from both sides that people just give up on trying to understand whats right and wrong.

so much news from both sides that people just give up on trying to understand whats right and wrong

It allows people to choose the truths they want to believe; yet when you control most of the noise, then most of those truths will be yours.

Interesting you made this post just hours before the FBI raided a GOP strategy firm.

Well it's also the fact that many people have said that there is no evidence of collusion

I think it's crazy that people will complain that Hillary lost because of the Russians, but they do not care at all about what was exposed.

If I was a Democrat I would be less bothered about the Russians and more bothered that the Democrats basically rigged the Primary making it impossible for Bernie Sanders to win.

Honestly when did r/conspiracy being Trump bots. Wtf happened to this place. How does Russia colluding to make an absolute moron president to the worlds superpower in order to throw that country into chaos? How does Russia putting inside men around THAT moron in secret in an attempt to drop sanctions placed against their country? Russia is actively attempting to expand their territory, in what many believe to be a real life attempt to reform the Soviet union. How the FUCK does the one major conspiracy result in r/conspiracy being a group of shills. Are you serious guys.

It's because they're pushing 24/7 with no evidence ane every major shill like Stephen Colbert is spouting this shit daily. If it's true who cares, go after Trump, it's just the constant accusations without the slightest proof, even just a single email, that make it stupd.

Judging from Vault 7 Marble Wikileaks Release, It was Most Likely Leaked or CIA

Devil's advocate, some conspiracy theories are true, and some (even smaller portion) are actually revealed to be true (Watergate, for example). When a conspiracy ends up being proven by an entity like the FBI (I am NOT saying that is the case for Trump right now), the MSM will inevitably pick it up in droves. So if what you're saying is true, that conspiracy would cease to be valid for /r/conspiracy. Essentially you are advocating for suppresssing truth just because the MSM covers it. In that case, you are just as much as an unthinking pawn as someone that universally accepts the MSM truth.

Your OP is 100% a lazy thinking shortcut and not a substitute for critical thinking. Demand more of yourself.

The election was 6 months ago

Nah I'm big into conspiracy I even thought when Hilary Clinton said it was bullshit but now?

Its walking and talking like a fucking duck right now.

Some of you are going to have a hard time thinking you couldn't be duped into this because you're conspiracy theorist and you're ahead of the curve and all that.

That's your EGO talking. You haven't been a conspiracy thinker your whole life you were duped once and it can happen again.

Stay thirsty my friend.

Yeah, I wouldnt say I thought it was outright bullshit right from the start. But over blown and a handy excuse for Hillary. But watching team Trump stumble over themselves trying to cover this up sure raises red flags.

The attitude towards Russia of being a scary evil empire is Cold War 2.0 fearmongering and propaganda. They want us in a war because they will make a final killing on profits, and a very literal killing of the human population so they can have their reset because they fucked up again and we're getting too close to the truth of things again.

Remember that these people pushing this idiot US v Russia narrative are psychopaths that create the conflict and directly profit off both sides. They would be happy if the vast majority of us were dead if they could somehow profit off of it. They are murderous warmongers, moralless scum devoid of empathy, Saturnic cultists and eugenicists, true demons in human form. Russia is Enemy #1 because Putin and his government directly oppose these individuals on many levels, he has undermined their globalist agenda severely, and he's pretty much the only world leader who has succeeded in doing this. Trump may have tried to fight the tide for a little while, but it's pretty clear he's either been tricked into carrying out their agenda, or he's been a "company man" the whole time.

Point being, it will always and has always been up to us to put a stop to this bullshit push for war. That's because these puppet fucks will never do it. They love war. None of them have our interests in mind unless it becomes expedient for them to do so. The best way to do extricate yourself from their control is to completely stop participating in their system as much as possible, become self-sufficient, take charge of your life and do whatever it is you love doing regardless of whether it's making you tons of fake fiat money. Stop watching their TV shows, talking heads and programs, and learn to parse information and discern opinion from fact. Go on YouTube and Reddit and other information centers and look for people who have similar views and resonate closely with the truth, see where they got their info from - follow the sources. Avoid any of the left-right paradigm and their partisan talking points, because it is all misdirection to keep you at each other's throats masquerading as "political discourse".

The Trump Russian narrative is beyond stupid and soaked with hypocrisy. This ridiculous outrage at completely unproven claims of Russia meddling in our election don't even have a shred of proper sourcing, almost completely relying on speculation, conjecture, political bias and the Pissgate dossier that has been discredited up and down by even those on the left. Russia probably technically tried to help hacking efforts to embarrass the DNC and specifically Hillary Clinton, if anything because she was directly threatening to go to war with them. It's a matter of basic self-preservation to support the guy who wants stronger ties and no war, isn't it? Isn't that basically what Donald Trump has been saying the whole time, that it's a good thing for Russia and the United States to be allies considering we're the only two countries that can pretty much wipe out all life on the planet?

Spying is intelligence 101. This is basic statecraft between almost all nations, spying has always and will always be a thing. There's nothing really significant about Russia doing this that can't also be attributed to the Chinese or Israel, where the ramifications of their spying was much more severe. The irony is that this narrative is being flogged past death while the vast majority of Americans continue living in extreme ignorance of our own history of interference worldwide (past and current), or they're just bald-faced hypocrites and jingoists that thanks it's okay when America commits crimes and atrocities but is just shocked when anyone else does it in return.

The thing is, most of the people that believe that Russia tried to influence our election are not looking for a war. Like the sanctions that Obama already put in place

Russia probably technically tried to help hacking efforts to embarrass the DNC and specifically Hillary Clinton, if anything because she was directly threatening to go to war with them. It's a matter of basic self-preservation to support the guy who wants stronger ties and no war, isn't it? Isn't that basically what Donald Trump has been saying the whole time, that it's a good thing for Russia and the United States to be allies considering we're the only two countries that can pretty much wipe out all life on the planet?

It looks like the reason Russia wants Republicans in power is because Russia supports Assad in Syria, and the U.S. needs some political reason it can't topple Assad so the military industrial complex can endlessly fund/propagandize/profit off the quagmire in Syria.

Or they found a way for both parties to get what they wanted - access to pipelines in Syria and a potential flashpoint to kick off a major conflict if that's what's in the cards. There's no good guys in this story unfortunately.

Why? Because it's on the MSM? Who cares? So was 9/11 and the Commission. So was Jade Helm (now debunked) so were Hillary and her Emails. Hell, even Pizzagate was on the MSM. Bill Clinton was, Nixon was, Susan Rice was...

So why aren't we allowed to talk about this here? Seems like the foxes are guarding the hen house. We can talk about Hillary, Bill, Flat Earth, 9/11, UFOs, whatever dumb shit 4chan posted last night, Macron's Emails (an obvious attempt to sway narratives)

But, why can't we talk about Trump and Russia? There's not even a single breakdown on this sub about a real conspiracy, one that is going on non-stop and infiltrating the lives of every single American.

That seems extremely shady. Why is it that anytime someone posts something about Trump, it's killed in /new/? This happens immediately. People are sitting there waiting to downvote anything that paints Trump in a poor light.

I like this sub, and I miss how it used to be... When it hated both parties, and was open to talking about whatever. Now though, it's quite clear that certain users are trying to kill the narrative. The real question is, why?

If you guys don't want to talk about it, you're free to stop participating. Otherwise, it just seems incredibly suspicious.

But, why can't we talk about Trump and Russia? There's not even a single breakdown on this sub about a real conspiracy, one that is going on non-stop and infiltrating the lives of every single American.

That seems extremely shady. Why is it that anytime someone posts something about Trump, it's killed in /new/? This happens immediately. People are sitting there waiting to downvote anything that paints Trump in a poor light. The only items that ever make it to the front page are the ones which can't be pushed out of sight, like Comey being Fired, or Flynn resigning.

I would not be shocked to find that people have some bots in play here. There is a pro-Trump bias among our current moderator team and skillsets to employ voting bots here.

On top of that a loyal brigade of voters that seem to be protective of Trump. The fact that there is not even ONE significant story that hits Trump in this sub right now is a fucking huge red flag.

The narrative OP wants us to accept: the Russian hackers didn't do anything our intelligence agencies don't also do, and the idiots DNC and Podesta fell for their amateur phishing scam. Besides, it probably wasn't even the Russians, but the CIA using co-opted Russian malware. Case closed. Get over it!

Nevermind the deluge of fake news and alternative facts contributed by CambridgeAnalytica and AggregateIQ and their Russian connections. Nevermind no Trump financials forthcoming nor anything about his business history with the Russian mob. Nevermind that the Senate still wants to question Jared Kushner about his shady real estate financing business in 2016 with a Russian bank under U.S. sanctions. Nevermind that Trump's former campaign manager, Paul Manafort, also managed Putin's deposed strongman in Ukraine, Viktor Yanukovych, plus Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska, who was denied a visa to the USA for ties to organized crime. Nevermind that a Trump server was directly connected to a server in the largest private commercial bank in Russia, Alfa Bank, founded and principally owned by Mikhail Fridman, a Russian Jewish oligarch with Israeli citizenship and close ties to both Vladimir Putin and Benjamin Netanyahu. Nevermind that Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, as CEO of Exxon, was busy doing multi-billion dollar deals with the Russian firm Rosneft, allowing Exxon access to the Russian Arctic, Siberia, and Russia’s far east.. Nevermind what Michael Flynn knew and when Donald Trump also knew it](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2017/05/10/white-house-lawyers-warned-trump-stay-away-from-michael-flynn). Nevermind that Comey violated the Hatch Act by announcing new evidence in the Clinton email scandal the week before the election, and then backtracking and admitting there was no new evidence just two days before the election. Nevermind that Jeff Sessions had to recuse himself from the Russian investigation but then turned around and recommended the President fire the top investigator. Nevermind all of that. Gotta get somebody in here who's gonna put the spotlight back on Hillary's emails. /s

One of the best posts in the entire thread and you're at 4 points almost all the way to the bottom.

Thx, yo, you know sometimes I just have to write the what I'd like to read if nobody else is gonna say it. Also, occasionally makes for good copy pasta.

What's kind of weird is that almost everything you are talking about gets next to no play in the MSM. I mean, even your first point regarding CambridgeAnalytica and AggregateIQ is considered to be some fairly inside baseball.

Ty. I'm not really surprised by the silence tho. It's clear that the Jackasses don't wanna piss of the Swamp Drainer-in-Chief right now, so they're content to play long-ball and stretch out any investigation 'til 2018. They need an independent commission, but the GrandOl'Pretenders know this and will not just hand it to them. Has to be a tit-for-tat. If Jackasses insist on keeping the Russian flame alive, then the SDiC's new FBI pick will reciprocate by re-opening Hillary's wounds. Neither side has anything to gain but everything to lose. The SDiC and his MSM trumpeteers are now gonna attack from the flank with his newly executive-ordered Voter Fraud Commission and focus on how Jackasses defrauded their own base. Meanwhile, the Jackasses and their MSM megaphones will ignore the feral Elephant crap and slowly settle on some forward-looking narrative that involves censorship of fake news and a tough posturing vis-a-vis the Russian Bear. The Jackasses will go along with this because, well, they're jackasses, and they're gonna ignore the herd of pink Elephants that have taken over the living room rather than talk about a revolution on the Animal Farm.

is widely known and accepted by much of society,

this is not true imo (from talking to people on internet, in real life and by reading comments on various places, listening to radio shows and podcast etc - and I spend very little time on conspiracy related sites)

In general vast majority is of opinion that Democratic party is pushing this story (russian hacking and trump-russia-close-ties) and holding on as their excuse for losing elections.

very few genuinly believe

Agreed. Haven't met one single person that really believes the Russia thing is true.

Stop speaking for all of the sub.

An actual conspiracy comes up on the level of watergate and all you morons can do is go "reeeee normies reeeeee"

I generally agree with this. However I still feel like we must always question both sides's intentions. Just because the West has been proven to be corrupt beyond measure time and time again, doesn't mean Putin or the East in general are saints. They are also likely looking out for their own interests.

But why is that wrong. Did it break the law? Is the US doing what russia wants? Answer is no to both.

I post regularly on T_D, but I also just wanna say that I'm happy to let my more critical-thinking anti-Trump friends find all the shit about Russian collusion that they can. I mean, having Naryshkin visit the White House at a time like this has to mean something, and I'd like to know exactly what.

Root for whoever you want, but assume trust at your peril.

not a trump supporter, but this shit is getting really old, realy fast... no actual evidence of collusion. what about the actual hard evidence confirming collusion between the xlunton campaign and the MSM? what about the actual hard ebidence of clinton corruption?

this is gettin truly ridiculous!

That makes no sense.

Just because the media reports on something we shouldn't talk about it here?

What, are supposed to be 'edgy' (Well, if you think the earth is flat you are edgy).

I mean, right here on this sub people have whined and moaned that pizza gate wasn't getting covered and now I come to find out if something is getting covered it is bad and probably a lie.

And I keep seeing people here say "Show me the evidence!" evidence which is being tracked down and not made public....but these same people use an email about cheese pizza to say it proves hillary raped and ate babies in a basement of a pizza place (which was suspicious because you could play ping pong there and kids were allowed).

SMH - I don't understand the way all this shit works. A real conspiracy about collusion on multiple fronts going on and we should ignore it and talk about hillary instead because the news is covering it. Seriously, shit makes no sense - unless you look at it as people loyal to trump wanting to protect and deflect.

But most here say the media is always lying so they aren't ever telling us anything (unless it is something we want to hear, then msm media is used and is ok for that story).

Not trusting them in a broad manner is different than whether or not you believe what they are saying. I know there is an investigation because I watched hours of it live. I also saw the msm boil that down to an article (don't own a tv so no idea what the idiots are saying on the air).

People have been caught lying, lost their jobs, etc and if anything, the media hasn't dug deep enough. Which is where I would guess people here would come in.

But that won't happen because many here are controlled by the donald and do not want to see more information on it all, they want less.

All those values and ideals they claim to hold are trashed for one man. And it looks like the same is true of the values of people in a conspiracy sub. They will ignore for one man and try to tell others not to do so as well because it is a waste; all the while preaching the earth is flat and run by reptilian overlords like hillary who uses the human race to produce children to use as pizza toppings.

When you ignore a real conspiracy happening today because you love one man so much, you aren't someone who cares about conspiracies - you are just loyal to a rich man from a tv show. And shame on those who are like that.

I have been on this sub since almost the very beginning. I agree with you, and I have held your own viewpoint on this particular paradox that this place can often find itself in regarding the MSM and what is news that should or should not be posted here. One thing that cannot be done however, is to have anyone but the users define what conspiracies are up for discussion and have value.

For the most part your issue has never had to be seriously discussed outside of modmail and IRC because, in general, the fallback and "out" for people is the sub's base cultural value of no-censorship.

With that being said, the current makeup of the moderators and the bulk of the user base is pro-Trump, but mostly in the sense that there was an overwhelming Hillary Sucks sentiment that a very few took to actively backing Trump. Mostly people here just couldn't stand Hillary and the neo-liberal branch of the oligarchy that she was a servant of.

That core of the longtime users of this subreddit try not to fall for the partisan stuff because they see it for what it really is, a means of dividing the population to keep them bickering amongst themselves over shit that they just do not have any control over, and, of course, a means of controlling wealth and power. The illusion of our current political system and The Powers behind it, to many here, is the real conspiracy.

Speaking as an american outsider, your country is going to shit. Batshit crazy and and fearful of russia to a point that it wants ww3. That is insanity at its base form.

I think the distinction is this: everyone agrees Russia influenced the election (at evidenced today at the intelligence hearing) through very obvious and illicit means - and obviously in favor of one candidate. This isn't debated stuff anymore - it's also never going to be justification for overturning the election results ... I don't think any sane person believes any of this is going to somehow 're-write' the election ... it's over, Hillary Clinton lost, 'liberals' get it.

However, that isn't what the investigation is about ... the one being conducted by the FBI and both chambers of Congress concerns collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia before and during the election.

Considering the implications, I prefer not being a Russian; if I did, I'd move to Moscow. The idea that he can't even be investigated is what will drive people into the streets.

How would you know if collusion took place before the investigation is over? Why would you demand the end of an investigation that supposedly going to 'clear' Donald Trump? Why do conspiracy theories about what the "Clintons did" factor into the current FBI investigation into the Trump campaign? If Russia is full of good guys who have just been misunderstood - why is the investigation being stalled by Donald Trump?

The conclusion hasn't been made - but it will be after an investigation (sound like law enforcement? Welcome to the FBI). Nobody is interested in scuttling the investigation anymore - not even Republicans. "Clinton" theories just aren't going to get it done anymore. Innocent people don't fear investigations.

It's because there IS NO FUCKING EVIDENCE! And it's been told to us a million times but the media and losers on reddit won't shut the fuck up about it.

All of these people say there is NO EVIDENCE!

• MAXINE WATERS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px6v0XbjiZI
• CHRIS MURPHY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIEhGFoeXXU
• JAMES CLAPPER #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMbQGSWsN_0
• JAMES CLAPPER #2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ycZj5-5KJwA
• JAMES CLAPPER / SALLY YATES #1: https://youtu.be/uU9a9-w2vjk
• JAMES CLAPPER / SALLY YATES #2: https://youtu.be/HSLrDoVLZus
• DIANNE FEINSTEIN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BS5amEq7Fc
• ADAM SCHIFF: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8ifT1lssHY
• DEVIN NUNES: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8iicUyOeik
• JOE MANCHIN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9qDolBGkEo
• JAMES COMEY #1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgeUNmplhsQ
• JAMES COMEY #2 (KIND OF): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA5CN1dF45k
• JAMES COMEY / MICHAEL ROGERS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCQgBOJsRKw
• MICHAEL ROGERS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5c4Hw-hr80
• PETER KING: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsv9JV7vFjk
• TOM COTTON: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09ovUQVO2iY
• TREY GOWDY: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qC0Jb7C9JRM
• PAUL RYAN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRjRDOArsl4
• RAND PAUL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gs41QdqJJM
• LORETTA LYNCH: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuL2QdqkCdQ
• VLADIMIR PUTIN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KCWyyLmXg0
• JULIAN ASSANGE CONFIRMS LEAKS ARE NOT FROM RUSSIA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faoHbgTTiHg
• BARACK OBAMA [states elections cannot be hacked]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cruh2p_Wh_4
• DONALD TRUMP [condemns it immediately]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=besaaGnXhHg
• VLADIMIR PUTIN DISCUSSES HILLARY INFLUENCING RUSSIAN ELECTIONS THOUGH BECAUSE WHY NOT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQYThJLNy7s
• SCHUMER, PUTIN, PELOSI, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZyVZ38Db_A

ARTICLES:

• MICHAEL MORELL: http://archive.is/D9Udo
• JACKIE SPEIER: http://www.npr.org/2017/05/10/527720092/democrat-rep-jackie-speier-compares-comeys-firing-to-nixon

Who are responsible for preventing the US elections from being hacked? You certainly cannot blame the Russians. I think it was not the Russians. It was the Dems election to win, and they threw it away due to their own arrogance and incompetence. If you look at the media coverage on election day, the Dems were already celebrating by noon. The whole Russia narrative did not come about until they lost. Then they needed someone else to blame, anyone, but themselves.

Hillary was clearly the chosen candidate, and the American voters rebelled against her.

It's all good OP... every time I see shills here it tells me they care ❤ and reminds me how voting against Hillary was the right decision.

Asking questions =/= pushing a narrative, you fucking twits

They are playing with Rocky 4 memories

You speak for the whole sub, amazing.

Conspiracy - A secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

A presidential candidate, an entire political party ILLEGALLY colluding with a hostile foreign government... is basically the biggest CONSPIRACY we've had the chance to unravel in a long time.

Interfering in an election is an act of hostility.

There is mounting evidence of widespread knowledge of the illegal money being funneled into GOP campaigns, so yes, an entire political party - not just a couple of a 'bad apples'. Is everything proven? No, it's conspiracy theory.

THAT'S THE FUCKING POINT.

But but but but Hillary!! Hahaha

Its hilarious how most people fail to point out and realize it was two separate "hacking" events. The DNC hack happened, someone hacked it and the "russian" footprints/fingerprints were found there. No one has explained who hacked Hillary's private server except the FBI. The FBI investigation of the DNC e-mails was basically making conclusions based on the Crowdstrike report. They did not have physical access to the DNC servers as stated by Comey himself.

The actual damaging e-mails all came from the DNC e-mails regarding the election fraud and the DNC primary collusion. The Podesta e-mails were was done with a phishing e-mail and totally separate. They have conflated and merged these two events to make it seem as they were both perpetrated by the same person. For gods sake the emails have different domain names yet everyone hears "hacked the election" and lumps all the e-mails together. The brainwashing to make everyone argue about e-mails and where they came from instead of the contents, has worked perfectly in my opinion.

It is made clear in the first few pages of the official FBI documents released at the FBI.GOV archives of the Hillary private server investigation that it was hacked by at least five state actors. That alone clearly states that she had classified information on a private server that was hacked! A crime in the USA and that is what everyone was screaming. She got let off the hook because the government didn't want to admit how much of our secrets were made available to our enemies/the world. And speculatively, I believe it was much more than that. I am sure once it was hacked,(Hillary's server) that someone leaked how to get in and those people who grabbed those contents were the ones who were getting vanned, at least the ones in America. But this is just speculation on my side.

Pedogate stems from the Podesta e-mails and not the DNC e-mail release. But you'd be hard pressed to see anyone separate these two incidents when debating the topic. Crowdstrike was caught lying in their Ukraine report, so why is it so "crazy" to believe their Russian hacking report might have some errors too?

Why is it stupid and a waste of time to think that?

What world do you live in. Of course it's bad. But that's the world I live in. It's a part of the norm. Why are you more concerned with Russia and less concerned with the contents of the email?

No. I did not say that.

I said we should place sanctions. Sanctions can be very mild or very extreme, depending on the severity of the situation.

Push for American interest. I'm an American, so of course I want the best for my country first.

Lmfao! Where were you the last 8 years? Fast and Furious, Tea Party targeting by IRS, exchange five terrorist generals for one deserter, pay billions to Iran in cash to get around sanctions, arming al-qaeda in Syria, over throwing Ghadaffi for no reason... I could go on and on about traitors in the Whitehouse selling out the American people with paper and money trails. Get over yourself and learn some CONTEMPORARY history at the very least.

It hasn't been proven yet because there is no proof

NSA is recording all phone calls and internet traffic

If there was proof it would be all over the front page

But this is government versus government. Trump is the President! He's the government man! Look at the power he wields; he just fired the guy investigating him on a dime. Nothing anyone can do about it.

because you don't want it to be true

Exactly, not very trustworthy when the 2nd sentence in the whole thing is a flatout lie with no evidence to back it up.

His name was Seth Rich.

The three intelligence agencies that confirmed it.

?

Yes.

But on the flip side, Republicans are kicking and screaming about Hillary and the UAE, but it is completely far fetched to many of them Trump would be conspiring with Russia for political and business gains.

I might have misunderstood and we have been agreeing.

Do you not remember the hacks from over summer? The definitely happened. And we know it was Russia, there were traces of the hack attributed to the Russian equivalent of the FBI. This article explains it. link

Spot on. There's so many examples like that of corruption and collusion where the evidence is already public and easy to connect. We even have a lot of it in their own words from wikileaks emails.

Is anything being done about it? How can anyone take the Russian narrative serious when easily provable corruption like that is ignored? It's all political theatre they're feeding to us, so far.

The relevant kind. Computer security is literally my job.

Yeah, Trump is the government, although he's only had 26 confirmed nominees out of 530! The rest are Obama holdovers, so yeah, Trump is really wielding the power of the government. 🙄

I know, it's far more important to tie the government up in investigating made-up "muh Russia" accusations instead of having confirmation hearings...

Also, people here seem to be hinging on "hacking" which isn't even the real problem here. The problem are direct ties to Kremlin money and power.

But, then again, they know that.

I'm fully aware that Putin is basically a mob boss that owns Russia. But again he's really no different or any better or worse than any of our Presidents, it's whatever country you're born in and whatever propaganda you're fed. These people ultimately all eat at the same tables and do business together regardless of whether they are official enemies or not. What people fail to realize is that there are no good guys in this. Trump and Putin are two people looking out for their own interests and whatever is going to make their country the strongest. The fact that both of them are strong nationalists is actually a good thing for us, collectively. I'm just solidly in favor of diplomacy and good relations with the only other country that can destroy us, for pretty common sense reasons.

Thanks

One of the best posts in the entire thread and you're at 4 points almost all the way to the bottom.

If you want proof, test his knowledge.

This is what happens when news journals agree to ignore newsworthy events that the whole world is aware of and large swaths of the world care at least a little bit about. I don't mean PG, I mean the Podesta Leak. It wasn't covered, and we got pizza gate because of it. Imagine if the media just decided not to cover the World Cup at all. So many people would lose their heads. This is what is happening.

What's kind of weird is that almost everything you are talking about gets next to no play in the MSM. I mean, even your first point regarding CambridgeAnalytica and AggregateIQ is considered to be some fairly inside baseball.

The Russians definitely sided with Trump/Republicans during the 2016 election. That doesn't mean Trump or the Republican party conspired with Russia to hack the DNC. I mean maybe they did, but other than support for a hugely superfluous military industrial complex residing in each country, I don't know what Republicans have in common with Russian officials. Got any ideas?

We are discussing issues that have "captured the public's imagination." All we're saying is that this subreddit shouldn't be simply repeating the MSM narrative as if that's the truthful perspective.