Do we know it is a solid terror attack yet?

Why can't it be a false flag?

Agree with you on that!

What connection would a bomb in the UK have with Trump visiting the middle east?

No matter what happened I bet they try and pin it on Iran.

That would be just too fucking obvious but yeah, that doesn't stop them.

I'd be very surprised if they pin it on Iran. That's not really our dominant narrative here. Much more likely it's blamed on a "homegrown" second/third generation immigrant of Pakistani origin, which'll then be used to strengthen anti-immigrant rhetoric and thus increase the Tories popularity, just before the election.

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

England is already a police state.

I like that you gave it a conapiracy vibe with "don't talk bad about radical Islam or the government will take away our freedoms" instead of the usual "don't talk bad about radical Islam or they'll get radicallized and kill us". Way to mix it up.

Why not just get rid of your muslims? That doesn't curb the freedom of the native British people, and will eliminate the warfare going on in your country. The muslims have countries to go back to, and but you won't have a country left if you keep them

native British people

Yknow some Muslims are born in the UK?

When I say Native American, you know I mean the people who inhabited it before the globalised era of colonization. When I say native British, you know I mean the people who inhabited it before the globalized era of colonization.

Do you prefer "aboriginal British"?

I literally can't tell if you're being sarcastic. So what should happen to all the non-Native Americans living in the US for hundreds of years? What about the native Britons whose lands were colonized by England, whose great-grandparents came to the UK and who have never traveled outside of the UK?

Pretty sure the Romans killed off the Aboriginal English.

If he's talking about Celts then England is the wrong place to look

Just to play devil's advocate, I'm pretty sure no baby comes out a Muslim?

When do they decide to become Muslim?

After enough cultural indoctrination, as with any system of belief?

Actually Muslims view all humans as being born Muslim.

How do they come to that view?

From their prophet http://islam101.com/dawah/newBorn.htm https://www.quora.com/Do-Muslim-parents-automatically-deem-their-children-to-be-Muslims

If I believe myself to be a purple elephant and my children to be borne purple elephants does that make it so?

That's not a good analogy, a purple elephant can be determined by objective observation, how do you determine if someone is a Muslim?

a purple elephant can be determined by objective observation

Actually objective observation, which you're borne with, is taken out of you by the customs of your parents. The Great Purple Elephant doesn't hold it against you. When he made Adam he also made all of his descendants and everyone said "Oh my, we can objectively verify that we're all purple elephants." This was done so no one could have an excuse for not believing they were purple elephants.

The vast majority of Muslims would agree that there are Islamic practices a Muslim is obligated to keep, yes?

I'm sure there are literalist and more philosophical branches of Islam, just as with every other religion. However, consensus reality is determined by how terms are used in relation to actions, there's not a deep underlying theological TRUTH behind these terms.

you could say the same for any religion.

And I do!

with you on that one, although religion still seems to be pushed very early on in most kids.

Oh for sure, by 2-4 most kids are solidly emulating their role models.

Especially when there's a good deal of religious reading/conversation taking place in the home, the brain is getting a map of the space where God lives, God's attributes, and the I's relation to it.

We're heading right down the path of a repeat of WW1 and the Cold War. The more research I've been doing to compare the state of the world as it is now to the past, that's all im managing to see.

http://i.imgur.com/qOE6kW7.jpg

The squished face in the 4th panel gets me.

Yeah the whole entire country is under cctv surveillance

we're the most watched state in the world

Kind of makes you wonder how or why they got away with this

i will never assume anything without thinking it through but there has to be somebody who is in the inside that's allowing this, two attacks in a couple months? in the most heaviest watched country in the world? i don't think so

CCTV doesn't prevent crimes. I'm not defending it but that's not what it claims to do. There's no way people could be watching all CCTV outputs at all times and catch people who are about to drive into a group of people. CCTV is meant to help catch criminals after the fact, not prevent terrorism in the way you're discussing. In that regard, it doesn't matter if the country is the most watched in the world, especially not if the terrorists are okay with killing themselves/being killed at the scene.

They're just setting the stage so when the machine learning, AI, and video recognition algorithms catch up (btw, they are already here), they can just automate the skynet. No need to watch it.

I know a lot about the field, and the accuracy is still pretty bad. You'd still need a lot of people to check the "suspicious" streams. And it takes a lot of processing power, so the cost would be significant.

While a lot of it is, "the whole entire country" is not. Go to the Scottish Highlands sometime.

I agree you are basically always on film in urban centres.

that's where i am, we still have a ridiculous amount although not as much as english cities

It's about to get a lot worse.

May will now win a huge victory and be free to introduce all her insane controls on the internet and surveillance.

Buckle up fellow brits it's about to get rough

yes it is very convenient that this happens before the general election

And on the 22nd, one of the 'master numbers' in numerology.

YESSSSSSSSSSSSS

Please elaborate. The attack was at this longitude? Thanks.

It was indeed. Just did a write-up here.

@liberal_bastard that's exactly what I thought too, Teresa May has conveniently postponed the general election.

No, they've suspended the election campaign for a day or two. The election itself is still full steam ahead.

Not for the 22 people that died.

This ^{^} The timing is very suspicious.

Shit like this makes me sick. It will no doubt get compared to the 1996 IRA bomb. Ms. May will no doubt use it for some ugly political advantage... hell, The [can't be trusted] Sun has already started to spin the BS IRA anti-Corbyn message.* Corbyn still has more integrity in his left nostril than May. Don't get sucked into the IRA narrative. This is what the Tories want. Most peaceful people would choose public diplomacy over war. Do your own research. Remember, this atrocity happened on Theresa's watch!

Exhibit A: Coming thick and fast: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3623934/ex-ira-killer-says-jeremy-corbyns-solidarity-encouraged-vicious-campaign-of-violence-and-without-his-support-terrorist-murders-and-torture-would-have-ended-much-earlier/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3625746/innocent-people-were-murdered-specifically-because-jeremy-corbyn-and-john-mcdonnell-sucked-up-to-the-ira/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/3612483/jeremy-corbyn-refuses-to-unequivocally-condemn-the-ira/

Yup.

They will rail road through some serious shit with popular support because of this.

I have no doubt this was committed by home grown extremists however was it allowed to happen.

May was falling in the polls, the young and poor hate her, 2 million more young people just registered to vote.

She's been terrible on tv and in interviews and has had to make several policy Uturn's after badly misjudging the public feeling.

This is extremely convenient for the tories.

Make no mistake I believe this was. A horrific and genuine attack but I absolutely fear the consequences of it for the freedom of the nation and its people. We are marching into a dystopian police state designed to extract wealth from the middle classes for the benefit of the rich. This will be done under the guise of safety and security and the defence of freedom.

Never let a good crisis go to waste.

Propaganda at work right there, associate Corbyn with the word terrorist before the election just as some kids were blown up. Well done UK elites, you've won this round, and i gotta seriously think about moving away from this hell hole of a police state.

Just more Rupert Murdoch subversion on behalf of his and May's Bildeberg masters.

The allied military kill more than 22 kids in the middle East a week.

I said this in previous post but got "rule 10". May has been doing awful this last week with manifesto and campaigning, corbyn has overtaken tories in wales, press are now doing their job and calling her out on her incompetence, is a authoritative control freak and stupid pubic see her her as strong and stable where's they see corybn as weak and terrorists Sympathiser.

The timing of this is fish as fuck. She probably will win by landslide now.

Really looking forward to seeing how or new internet will look.

Well she's better than that nutter corbyn that's for sure!

Oh he's nuts alright but he isn't proposing massive internet controls, controls on what's app and backdoors to al things, warrantless searches of internet history or a whole host of other deeply fucking scary things. Corbyn is an idiot but he's not a malicious want to be dictator

The internet controls and WhatsApp I understand. But all the other things they do in secret anyway, especially GCHQ. They have been for ages they know where you are what you've been looking at they probably even know who you're going to vote for before you even do it. But corbyn is a socialist and an extreme one at that, and that type socialism does not work it will be the breaking of us. We will go into yet another recession just like Blair caused and there won't be anything we can do about it. Remember we have control if enough people dont want her to put on Internet controls and whatsapp back does etc, then it will not happen. We just actually have to say something about it! It's the will of the people not the will of the government.

Yea let me know how that works out

You think it would've been any better with corbyn and his plans to break up our armed forces and get rid of our nuclear weapons .......

He may not want nukes, his party does. May and the tories support her more insane policies

Either way Diane Abbott is more than enough of a reason not to vote for labour. Btw I do not support either primary candidates I just see it as , better the devil you know .

I disagree.

I'm British. Could you elaborate on that a little further please?

I'm not British so this is just an outsiders perspective. Freedom and constant cctv surveillance seem to be the antithesis of each other.

I also find it rather strange that you still have a royal family in-spite of them not even having the legitimate claim to the crown, the actual head of the monarchy seems to be a farm hand in Australia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Abney-Hastings,_14th_Earl_of_Loudoun

It's also been claimed that the queen receives all the Intel from various agencies and can do as she pleases with this information with no checks or balances.

She also has full power to go to war. You might say no thats the prime minister and parliament's decision well no she appoints the prime minister and can suspend parliament at will.

Not to mention she can not be charged with wrong doing and can pardon whomever she pleases.

I ask you whats the difference between a modern day swat team with assault rifles acting under the absolute authority of the crown and the knights in armor of old. Seems that the uk never actually abolished serfdom.

Were not looking much better state side with our so called patriot act and rouge intelligence agencies so i'm not sitting on my high horse. Im just making observations.

And the US is well on it's way thanks to the "Patriot" Act. And the sad thing is when the next terrorist attack occurs on our soil, I will be arguing with people hear that it's not OK to give up more of our freedoms for a false sense of security.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1G_OwBjWjk Multiple Confirmed Fatalities

Yep, reports of nail-bomb coming in thick and fast now, bomb disposal at the scene

Where are you gettin reports from? The local media aren't aaying anything yet. I'm not a twitter person btw

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Delete some of you're posts dude

It happens when youre on a phone and you hit save and it doesn't load thus you hit it again and again and back out to find you've posted 20 times... happened to me before

I know I was just letting him know.

Gotcha

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Hmm the roof of the station next to the arena is made of glass. There stairs from the station directly to the ticket area of the arena. I'd expect some damage to the glass seeing as not long after it was built a pane failed due to having too much water on it and a fat pigeon.

Follow #manchester on twitter - It's the best site for breaking/up to date news, GMP official is here https://twitter.com/gmpolice

People are live on FB as well

As sad as it is: these things happen because we invade people's countries, destroy these people's homes, lives and families, and are forced--in their anger in distraught--to turn to radicalized groups that give that anger and hatred an outlet.

It's sad that few people know this.

"Are you suggesting we invited the 9/11 attack, sir?!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDrgz0ssapI

Guy in this video is actually a scum bag or incredibly stupid. Would just love to ask him: so, where were the chemical weapons? How many people on those planes were Iraqis and just hear the made-up shit spew from his mouth.

Nah bro, people love you bombing their country and killing their family. We're just wholesome Americans!

Rudy "but 9/11" Jewels? Yeah- total asshole. "They hate us for our freedoms"

When my father first take me to America he take me to a place called McDonald's. That's when I first saw the Big Mac. That when I knew... I knew this is why we fight

You know the first thing the jihadists are going to declare as haram under their global sharia law, will be the McRib.

You can pry the mcrib from my cold, dead hands!

keep eating them and they just might have to.

Lick my fingers when I'm gone :'(

These people really want something in the middle east...

I think you're jumping the gun a bit.

There's a very good chance this a homegrown attack.

We may not have homes this attackers home so instantly blaming our selves is as bit premature to say the least.

No, I'm not saying it is or isn't: I'm speaking generally in regards to terrorism/war on terror.

Fair enough but I would still take issue with you're initial statement.

The military intervention of the west is only one part of the problem. To say that if we stopped bombing there countries then they would stop murdering our people is a bit simplistic.

I'm not saying it would stop altogether: it's not an off switch it's a bunch of very angry people. But you have to admit this is a huge reason. If America invaded my country under false pretense and started killing my family and installing puppet governments I'd probably become a terrorist too. The reality is that this has been going on for over a century with the British Empire before America and Russia: generally speaking, tending to leave people alone usually helps them fare a lot better than attacking them all the time and not letting to grow.

If America invaded my country under false pretense and started killing my family and installing puppet governments I'd probably become a terrorist

But this isn't America this is the United Kingdom.

it's wrong and so much worse than anything the terrorists have done

Yeah tell that to the little girls that have been blown up

Compare casualties of people as a result of terrorism vs as a result of US intervention. It is not even close.

It would be if they get there way. Hence why we bomb them . Its an age old cycle and no side is blameless .

I'm sorry but you're ignorant and part of the problem.

I'm part of the problem because I don't except any blame for children being murdered by craszy Muslims?

Listen seagull, I'm English too, 20 miles from Manchester and, whilst it's shocking, if you can't understand and accept the points being made, you need to re-educate yourself my brother. This attack is atrocious, the worst of the worst - nobody is denying that. The point being made is much more general than this isolated incident - all these attacks across western Europe and the US are, essentially, due to the western world's 'intervention' in these countries and this intervention is down to a small number of factors: greed, power, control & resource. As stated above, if my city was bombed like Baghdad or Kabul or Alleppo or I saw my people being treated like the Yemeni's or the Palestinians then I would be fucking livid and a bit of retaliation would definitely be on the cards. If this is indeed a 'terrorist' (God I hate that word) attack, then I always consider it to be retaliation and I find it a bit insulting and naive for us brits/yanks/europeans to take any form of moral high ground.

As I have said its early in the game so it's not clear if this is a homegrown attack but i would say there is a strong chance it could be, as was the case in 77, in which case you're argument that this, because we are bombing their homes, falls flat

If this is indeed a 'terrorist' (God I hate that word) attack, then I always consider it to be retaliation and I find it a bit insulting and naive for us brits/yanks/europeans to take any form of moral high ground.

A retaliation?

killing little girls at a concert.

bit insulting and naive for us brits/yanks/europeans to take any form of moral high ground.

Insulting for us to take the moral high ground.

What the fuck are you on about.

We absolutely have the moral high ground.

Unless we start target baby girls at pop concerts, taking sex slaves and burning people in cages, shit like this, then yes we fucking do have the moral high ground, these people and anybody who and anyone that condones this type of thing is a fucking animal.

Can't quote cos I'm on my phone - but yes, likely retaliation for you know, bombing schools, hospitals, mosques etc...

Hard to claim moral high ground when nearly half a million iraqi children died during the Gulf war and the US were dropping bombs with depleted uranium in them.

This is not 'terrorism', it's a fucking war mate.

Again why do think this has anything to do with Iraq,all evident ice so far suggests that this is a home grown attack.

So because US dropped depleted uranium on Iraqi children you think that justifies murdering baby girls at a pop concert in the UK.

This is war you're right about that and the sooner the people the UK wake up and start to tackle the poisonous ideology that justifies the murder of little girls at a fucking pop concert then the sooner we can begin to purge these types of monsters from our country.

20 miles from Manchester you say.

Well there's your problem Mancs you have got people living inside you're community that think this is a justified act of war. Little girls at pop concert blown to bits .Fucking disgusting.

You're only looking at one side of the coin mate, I was merely providing examples. You agree it's a war, Ok - wars have casualties. People will die, other people will make a shit ton of money, other people will profit financially and politically - this is the world we live in. Violence begets violence. I'm not happy about it - I'm a pacifist and a bit if a hippy but I absolutely understand that violence, war and invasion of Middle Eastern (muslim) countries will have repercussions and this is what I believe has happened today. Absolutely heartbreaking but no end in sight until we accept that violence is not the answer. I mean, let's be honest, our troops aren't here, there and everywhere to help are they....

You're twisting his words.

The UK/US have in the past bombed the shit out of communitites in the middle east. Some of those communities had children in them.

So, you've got an apathetic young man who sees injustice and murder against 'his people', the news & tv are constantly telling everyone else that he's the bad guy, and that his people are evil, whilst continuing to bomb 'his people'. No-ones talking about these attacks, and murders because they're brown, foreign and poor.

So how would an ignorant, naive, believer draw attention to their plight? He makes sure you take notice by doing something he sees as equally heinous.

I don't sympathise with these people, but to claim that there is no reason for this to be happening is incredibly naive.... ..and it's our governments intervention that catalysed this process.

Collectively we have the blood of children on our hands, just as you're insinuating that Muslims have blood on their hands, and remember an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

It's not bombs or threat or wars that'll stop this shit. They're doing it for us, they're getting moderate muslims to hate them for us, and as this shit continues, which it will, fewer and fewer people in civilised society will force their children into religious education.

I'm watching it happen right now. I've lived amongst Muslims for most of my life. As a racist child in the 80's, I hated their families. Who the fuck do they think they are having more than 2 children. Then I looked at white people in my area. Very few had jobs, most had kids and most were on benefits. Here's me getting mad at people who pay their taxes, provide for their families and work hard to improve their quality of life, while 'my people' sit happily in squallor and are fine with not changing it, while receiving handouts and moaning about people who work hard for what they have. So I started to stop hating.

At 11 years or so I made friends with a boy named Omar. I was acepted into his house as one of the family, I was treated like family, with acceptance and kindness. I remember one year walking round to his house on Christmas Day and seeing that he had no presents went home and took him some of my Lego. I couldn't imagine someone not celebrating christmas, I just thought they were having financial difficulty or something. We were friends for many years, we still are.

His children are waaaaay more moderate than he was. They go to western schools, they live in the western world, they wear western clothing, they're as British as I am, as an accident of birth they happen to be 'muslim' and I will defend them in times of ignorance and hatred.

Yeah ,we all know Muslims mate.

My childhood mate dean ,a yemani muslim, was a top lad.

He paid little to no attention to his religion and that's why he integrated so well.

But I must say I think he integrated with so well also because our area is white.It sounds to me like you have integrated into there comunity .Locals are lazy out of work benefit scoungers etc,sounds like you have bought into the propaganda to me.

Racism rears it's head in many ways. Assuming that my tolerance for others is a weakness is a sign of it.

I judge individuals on their actions, not by the actions of their 'peers'.

That Tar-Brush starts to get awfully wide.

I'm not abandoning a good house, a good neighbourhood, a good life because my neighbours are brown. I'm staying here and immersing myself in all the cultures around me to enrich who I am. It's like travelling without a passport, or money.

To have a healthy outlook on life you need people with opposing views, different cultures and different ideas to challenge you and your own prejudices, if you don't have that you get Ghetto's. Ghetto's breed ignorance racism and crime.

I live in Nottingham pal. Before all this EU/Chinese/Malaysian money came in from the Uni to take the place of the industry we were sending abroad, people were poor. They were also white. This isn't a self-hating thing, it's history.

I sincerely hope you're trolling.

Why would I be trolling?

Your comment on casualties resulted from US attacks.

The statistics leave no room for interpretation and wishful thinking that it'd be worse if the US didnt intervene.

I stand by that comment.

I'm not saying that they have caused more or even as many causalities but the intent is there as was demonstrated last night.

If Isis or some other radical Islamic terrorist group got their hands on a nuke they would have no problem in using it against us.

You're aware that the CIA & the pentagon mainly finance ISIS?

Yes.

I also often express my disgust for the CIA.

They call it terrorism but it's really just blowback.. We bomb them, They strike back... We kill (much more) of them and the cycle continues....... It's retarted really.

Saudi nationals orchestrated 9/11 one of our allies in the Middle East what was 9/11 blowback for?

Plethora of things... Google it.

Also, they have no other reason to kill us besides the fact that we're killing them... I mean we are over there, meddling and murdering in their country's... And we wonder why they attack? We could just leave them alone and just chill

If we just left them alone they would still hate us.

There clerics would still preach hatred for the west.

They hate that we give women equal rights.

They hate because we give gays equal rights.

They hate us because we support Israel.

They hate us because we let 11 year old little girls go to see what they consider to be a slut like Ariana Grande.

They hate us because their holy book preaches bullshit like this.

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing

Or this

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you.

If we stopped " killing them" they would still hate us.

Good sir this comment comment angers and offends me, allow me a minute to get to a computer and to get some scotch in my system to be able to reply in a more concise manner.

Well lets keep it civil good sir no offense is intended and since we live in a society where we are allowed to discuss things like this openly we can both express different opinions with relative freedom, incidentally this freedom is another thing they hate about us.

Good sir there is no better argument, than a civilised argument. I'll even tone down on profanities. In Australia it's always time to drink, it's also almost dinner.

I think your comment is a broad and hate inducing piece of writing.

If we just left them alone they would still hate us. There clerics would still preach hatred for the west.

So what if they do? That's fine they can hate the west til the cows come home, how does their hatred affect us? Do you wake up in the morning thinking "Damn, I feel hated by a group on the other side of the world?"

Some would argue that this hatred could boil over into acts of violence against the western world. I would agree that is a possibility, but at the same time, If they did attack, violent actions again the perpetrators of any attacks on the west would be just but positively righteous. Until then it's live and let live.

They hate that we give women equal rights. They hate because we give gays equal rights. They hate us because we support Israel. They hate us because we let 11 year old little girls go to see what they consider to be a slut like Ariana Grande. They hate us because their holy book preaches bullshit like this.

They hate the west, no doubt, for lots of reasons. But the reasons you listed are narrow minded and immature. They hate the west, (in my opinion) because we ruined their countries for oil. We ousted their democratically elected leaders, put in corrupt politician who were western puppets, killed their men, raped their women, ruined their lives and lively hood and are the sole reason their kids go hungry at night. If you want to go even further back, there was the Crusades, where the west essentially said "Alright you godless heathens, Jerusalem is holy land, our holy land, our God is the true god, you're wrong. Now fuck (I know I said no profanities but it seemed so fitting) off our land and while you're at it, convert to Christianity accept Jesus as your saviour or prepare to meet Excalibur." To go even further back. Abraham (patriarch of Jews, Christians and Muslims) impregnated a servant girl (Hagar), who bore Ishmael (more on him shortly). Shortly after this his wife Sarah fell pregnant and said (in paraphrasing of course) "I don't want you loving Ishmael, who is not even ours [he's yours] more than our kid, get rid of them." So Abraham sent them out in to the desert. Which was a dick move for numerous reasons. 1 Abraham promised he'd looked after her and 2. The desert sucks, it's hot, sandy and full of scimitar wielding pricks who are violent to say the least. At this point God came down to Hagar and said (again paraphrasing) "I promised Abraham I'd bless you and your child, even though he's a dick, I'm a man (God) of my word and will bless you and your child and make your people many." Her son, Ishmael was the founder of the Muslims and after being abandon by his father pissed him right off.

Finally,

Quran (2:191-193) - "And kill them wherever you find them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out. And Al-Fitnah [disbelief or unrest] is worse than killing Or this Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you.

Isiah 14:21- "Make ready to slaughter the infidel’s sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and possess the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants."

Ezekiel 9:5-"Then I heard God say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children.”"

Both books are "divinely inspired" both book preach violence against all who oppose god's righteous. Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe this isn't correct? Religion is the institutionalising of Faith, something that had lead to atrocities since the dawn of civilisation. Not to mention if the story of Abraham and Ishmael are true (which bible, Quran and theological scholars agree is the case) they're all right? or all wrong?

My point is divisive speech, the propagation or further violence against the east and the tit for tat they bomb us we bomb them mentality is doing no body any good and the way to solve this is by letting bygones be bygones, leaving the east to be easterners and the west westerners and seeing how that goes?

Excellent post good sir.

You make some great points and you're understanding of spiritual texts seem superior to mine.

Thanks for keeping it civil and no it's not my intent to inspire violence.We all want peace

Thanks bud, it was the mix of scotch and mash sweet potato that allowed that bit of writing to come out. I'm a total dick when I'm sober.

it's not my intent to inspire violence.

I have no doubt of that, you're right, I flew off the handle. Sorry buddy. I hadn't drunk enough, so I was still slightly dick-ish.

I find religion truly fascinating. People massacre each other and commit atrocities all in the name of a set of texts and stories. It confuses me. It's essentially a historical rendition of the Da Vinci code and people kill and die for it. Like... what?

Also sir Scotch at 8 30 in the morning.

Wouldn't you prefer a nice cup of tea?

Sure they would hate you

But they won't throw missiles at your home :)

I love people like you when they get beaten in an logical and rational argument, they quickly quote something from Quran to show how evil Muslims are and how its in their religion to kill non Muslims and no one corrects them because most people in the west know nothing about Quran. But all we have to do is take a look at the context so allow me to quote the verses in full.

(source Quran.com)

Quran (2:190) SAHIH INTERNATIONAL Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

Quran (2:191) SAHIH INTERNATIONAL And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Quran (2:192) SAHIH INTERNATIONAL And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Quran (2:193) SAHIH INTERNATIONAL Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

You also quoted Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you.

What you forgot to mention here is that God is not talking to Muslims in general in fact he is talking to Prophet Muhammad about his and his followers being persecuted by the hands of their enemies and how they have to fight to defend themselves sometimes and God is telling him to tell the Muslims that are there with him "you might not like fighting but you have no idea how beneficial it is for you".All you have to do is to look at the verse before it.

Quran (2:215)They ask you, [O Muhammad], what they should spend. Say, "Whatever you spend of good is [to be] for parents and relatives and orphans and the needy and the traveler. And whatever you do of good - indeed, Allah is Knowing of it."

So Quran (2:216) is not a general order for Muslims that live today.

I love people like you

Thanks ,i love people like you too.

when they get beaten in a logical and rational argument

This subjective and open to interpretation.

they quickly quote something from Quran to show how evil Muslims are and how its in their religion to kill non-Muslims

I didn't quickly jump to this response i also made several other points about hate preachers, hatred for gays, hatred for Israel etc.

no one corrects them because most people in the west know nothing about Quran.

Correct people in the west have little interest in the Quran. The only reason i ever have any call to read it is when Islamic barbarians murder innocents on our streets. This is no bad thing, we have freedom to study and learn whatever interests us in our society, but once again I'm forced to read the verses to explain why these people think it's justified to murder little girls at an Ariana Grande concert. I see your going to explain it me.

Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

Elaborate, please.

What is fighting in the way of Allah?

I take that to mean fight like Allah , chopping off people's heads, taking slaves etc

What do you mean by Transgressors?

And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Elaborate again, please.

I take this to mean that wherever you overtake disbelievers in the number you should expel them and if they resist you should fight them.

And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

I take this to mean if they submit only then will they be shown mercy.

I mean dont get me wrong all religions are have their faults but to imply the quaran plays no part in radicalisng terrorist is just ridiculous

And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

I take this to mean if they submit only then will they be shown mercy.

I am not a native English speaker but what you took from the verse above is the definition of Ignorance and you are part of the western mentality against Islam that i am talking about.I am not gonna waste my time arguing with you there are many sources online that can help you if you wanna get your answers.Good luck.

Actually, its part of the Muslim religion that they should feel the pain of their Muslim brothers n sisters. So being born in the UK doesn't mean the homegrown terrorist has no sympathy for Muslims 'back home' (wherever the terrorist is ethnically from, as well as other Muslim countries that share his ideology). This is normally what homegrown terrorists spout out that its because of foreign policy blah blah as to why they're carrying out retaliation attacks.

Fact is, we're in this vicious cycle that I honestly can't see an end to, ever, unless there's a hard reset like an act of God (if you believe) or a meteorite.

Inviting them into our homes is not the answer.

That's like inviting the family of the man you murdered over for dinner and expecting them not to exact revenge.

These things are planned by the powerful.

Like Pakistan?

A lot of radicalization in Pakistan stems directly from the interference in Afghanistan.

You say we. Do you belong to those people? Because it sure as fucking hell isn't the american people doing it.

I know it; I simply don't give a shit.

Sometimes you have no choice and just have to blow up innocent teenagers, dumb people don't understand this!

'sometimes you have no choice and just have to invade innocent countries, dumb muslims just don't understand'

Many of the attacks are by second generation muslims who have never even been to the Middle East and have lived in comfort in a western civilization. Please with your feel good story. The Middle East has been blowing themselves up and killing each other way before any western country got involved.

Please tell me the sources and evidence of that happening before 9/11...

Then you have no idea about the history of the middle East

Oh yeah the sunnis and shites got along lovely until those evil white people came along. Fuck off.

Yeah bro, white people only rolled up to ME 30-40 years ago. /s Not like white people haven't been doing much worse for ages.

Get a life.

We didn't have to invite those same people to come into our countries either.

Although I'm for figuring a way of getting out of the Middle East, Extremist Islam needs to be exterminated with the likes of Nazism, Imperalism, etc.

Amen, well said and good timing, m8.

Im sure very rational level-headed people will somehow blame liberals/feminist/jews/cucks

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Well, using the word rational doesn't mean much when talking about peoples actions imho. IF you have a skewed perception and thinks that the only reason this is happening is because some people in the UK are of muslim faith or decent then it's quite rational to blame the people advocating any degreee of immigration.

Obviously I disagree with that inane perception of reality, but it still fully rational line of thinking based on erronous perceptions.

I was being sarcastic

And I was pointing out that the sarcasm kinda falls apart if you think that people are "irrational" when they asign blame. Because they are following the rational consequences of their own misguided perceptions.

There is a difference between being wrong and being irrational.

Its irrational to assign blame when you have zero info due to the fact it literally happened hours ago.

Damn T_D is a cesspool.

Fox News was the source. Conjecture. Sounds like par for the course.

What happened? Was it a bomb?

It sounds like it was a suicide bomb & a nail bomb. It was outside the stadium before the security checkpoint.

I heard that there wasn't smoke reportedly, but that was just a comment I read so not sure if it's true.

Except in a prison you are the most vulnerable.

During the floods in Mississippi or Louisiana or some backward ass state like that, prisons were abandoned, and prisoners that were housed underground were stuck in sewage refuse up to their neck.

Those cells are staying shut if there's ever a problem. They are the FIRST to die. It's society's degenerates and unwanted,

Yes in Katrina a bunch of people drowned in their cells.

wait...what? Seriously? Can you provide a link (not rhetorical btw)? That's just...I'm speechless.

It would also be nice if we could avoid generalizing about a massive group of people based on the actions of a few.

But when it's consistently the same few from the same general group of people, then what?

Who is them?

stop being willfully lazy/obtuse. you can find the answer in less than 30 seconds with a couple clicks.

If it's so easy and fast to find send me some sources

You could have answered your own fucking question in the time you took to type this response. Crawl back into Hillary's snatch, where you'll be sure to find her paycheck.

Again your not giving me sources l, just trying to "insult" me 😂😂😂😂 fucking tool 💩

This was at an Ariana Grande concert... obvious false flag illuminati sacrifice

You gotta be skeptical of this stuff when it comes around these stars. She is nothing but a pimp wagon.

Her minaj gaga, all make me gag

That's what i thought as well.

Who is she and why is it significant that it happened at her concert?

She's a part of the satanic music industry, big big name, big part in the depths of that web, bombs went off in a terror attack killing 19

big big absence of evidence for any satanic bullshit on ariana aswell

And that this was in any way linked to her - these comments are fucked up...

https://youtu.be/OwMLD3RvQSA

Its all fake. The announcer confirms this.

Not quite Disney kid, surrounded by megastars

Is this funny to you?

You know you're only reading text right?

So youre confirming your comment is for the entertainment value.

The only thing being confirmed is how blind you are to what I said, where the fuck did I say it was funny, where the fuck did I confirm that my comment was for entertainment value. I'm as serious as a heart attack when I said that, don't project your bullshit onto me.

Serious as a heart attack when you said it is an obvious illuminati sacrifice.

Thanks for making your view crystal clear.

It was my mistake. I am genuinely thankful. You are the person that has finally convinced me to stay off this sub.

Again that has nothing to do with me, but entirely your perception. Do you not know anything about Hollywood and the music industry? About how the CIA funds ISIS? I come to this sub so I can speak freely, not conform to project mockingbird sanctioned bullshit

I'm in the UK, really surprised how "US officials" know more about the incident before UK officials do. US News outlets reported 20 deaths before the UK did and now UK news sources are quoting US officials as there being a suicide bomber responsible for the attack. Can someone explain this? Also, bombs break glass and carnage. A woman at the scene was quoted as hearing a huge "boom", but she didn't mention anything after that. Another "witness" said the explosion threw him back 30feet. Surely he'd have some injuries from the shock wave, if not die. It might just be because information is coming out in a crazy way, but some things already sound strange.

Indeed, it already smells funny. But you never know. The fact is bomb was placed in the very corner of the place. By whom? Do they not check people coming into these places for large or medium sized bombs lol? This smells like a false flag so badly. That are some deranged worker at the place.

No, why would they? If you were going to start looking for them there then you may as well look absolutely everywhere all the time. There's no reason to suppose it's any more likely than a football game or anywhere else.

Yeah even the BBC is still calling the reports by "US officials" as "unconfirmed"

I think the time difference could be a factor in how the info has spread. As far as witness accounts, they are hardly ever accurate.

It was a false flag that's why...

This I doubt purely down to statistics because the world has become really fucked up lately, with acts of terror(ism) just about everywhere, and the part of England this happened in has its fair share of non-native Brits if I put it politely...

This is not saying false flag events do occur, but in this case I'd be surprised if it was so. If you want to drum up support you stage an event in the south somewhere close to London. That's my view on the situation. I might be wrong? You never know for sure.

If you want to drum up support you stage an event in the south somewhere close to London.

Not always

Yes, but IRA has (had?) a whole different agenda than this type of terrorism - but I guess in the end of the day it doesn't really matter where you detonate a bomb because pictures of dead kids and teens on news weigh more than any territorial debate.

I still don't think this was a false flag incident purely down to the execution. One single fanatic is far too risky for a planned false flag operation. The more the merrier and less chance of failure.

But I'm not working for a rogue government planning events like that so it's pure speculation from my part - and I can be wrong because I've got nothing to prove my theory, but realistically I think my theory is most likely correct.

ISIS is funded by the CIA.

Sure a good stage for theresa 23rd of May to show how strong she is and blablabla

Yep, Crowley loves sacrificing children, all those people with do as thou wilsts t-shirts

It was a false flag that's why...

And what evidence do you really have to go with......

Can't you actually accept that ISIS muslims are really this cold hearted and fucked? Can you not blame a western government due to a preconceived bias?

I can actually accept that because of our actions in the Middle East waves of either scared and wanting better or angry and wanting revenge refugees that was caused by ISIS or Israel's and Amercia's Middle East proxy army. Maybe if we stopped funding and arming them and actually went after the businesses that buy their oil? Oh wait then we would have to stop ourselves.

I can actually accept that because of our actions in the Middle East waves of either scared and wanting better or angry and wanting revenge refugees that was caused by ISIS or Israel's and Amercia's Middle East proxy army. Maybe if we stopped funding and arming them and actually went after the businesses that buy their oil? Oh wait then we would have to stop ourselves.

Fair argument and accurate, but it still doesn't really create a direct tie behind it being a false flag. This is the shitty effect of these proxy wars. We get shitty attacks like this because of Allah.

At the end of

It becomes a false flag when there isn't the race war they're expecting from the surge of refugees

The last attack was on ☠️skull and bones day☠️. Its' fake just like new york is extremely fake with crisis actors talking about police being staged on the corner and grinning like a cheshire cat.

Russian vids covered this throughly.

The CIA and intelligence services fund ISIS.

So your then saying that... by proxy... Michael Pompeio and the CIA indirectly created an operation for isis to carry out to attack on one of the United States most important allies, both from an intelligence perspective, and military.

Does this reality even occur to you?

It still doesn't convince that there's any sort of discrepancies with this attack to warrant such a claim that is could be a false flag.

The amount of uniformedness... it's overwhelming

Your preconceived notions are clouding your judgement just as equally.

Come on now, you honestly can't believe that we went into Iraq to free them right? The leader of MI6 was a pedophile btw, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sceYhOQEH8

Never said that at all.

US went there for oil. Not freedom.

It begs to the question again:

Where is any form of information directly regarding the Manchester explosion to it possibly being a false flag.

Stop evading the simple question.

I see the evidence, you don't. That's the problem. There's no need to speak a language that you won't comprehend. You're still questioning whether the US gov would "bomb" an ally, not worth it imo.

Ok so you have nothing.

Not worth the effort, at all, good bye.

Send me conflicting evidence of what has been reported in the media.

How difficult is that to do if you want to claim false flag.

It should be the basis of a false flag argument. Conflicting evidence. Not notions about CIA operations.

You can't have a debate about a claim without any evidence or conflicting evidence.

Make you look foolish as shit.

When more often than not the largest terror attacks in the west are false flags, such as these times we are living in now, it is logical to be sceptical when hearing yet another attack has happened. Especially when the facts start to not add up. Especially given how the media is known to create entirely false set ups and push false stories and lie continuously, and spin every story. So actually, I think you should look at everything you are presented with, and try and be critical, rather than being stuck in your preconceived bias that ISIS muslims are carrying out these attacks, just because its within your scope of belief and reality. It is good to be sceptical in these times and I would recommend it - you'll arrive closer to the truth, rather than thinking because we live in a climate in which it COULD happen (as it's been orchestrated as such over decades) and were being TOLD it happened (by proven liars) means it definitely happened (of which proof has not been offered yet).

UK press is more careful with regard to reporting 100% confirmed facts - or at least BBC is, which is the UK press most non-UK-ers are more familiar with. Watch the order of news sources breaking any new story - the BBC always lags behind the rest.

That one video alone should be enough proof that 9/11 was an orchestrated event.

exactly! i checked out the american news for their perspective and they we're talking all this stuff about nail guns and suicide bombers how does a place that is 4000 miles away know more than our own officials? it's fishy i'll tell you that much

It's not that the US press knows more than British officials, it's that they're more willing to speak about it publically.

Metal detectors on that arena too surely..

If the news is right and the explosion was just inside the front doors then no. Theres no metal detectors. At least there weren't last time i went. I think they just use those hand held detectors when go into the main arena

I've worked on the arena and several other's across the UK the security is way too relaxed. No walk through metal detectors, no wanding with a handheld mea detector , no pat downs and rarely any bag checks , every now and again you will be asked to open the top of your bag , but even then they only glance in the bag they don't move stuff around in the bag etc. I've always thought the security was poor for such a large venue.

I went to a boxing event at this arena and because there was some issue with doors being opened late, the "supervisor" was instructing guards to only search people who looked suspicious.

Yeah this happens all the time I've been working security on events for many years now and the amount of times venues prioritise getting everyone inside instead of security measures is unreal , at the least they should have walk through metal detectors , even just security guards with metal detector wands would suffice and it won't jam up the queues too much, I currently work for the MOJ and I search people using walk through detectors handheld detectors and baggage x ray machines on a daily basis and we can get each person through in 20 secon's or quicker , get them to step through the metal detector if it bleeps do a quick scan with the handheld detector , pinpoint cause , then onto the next person etc and tell them to have their bags open ready for a quick search or idally have a xray bag scanner either way will help more than they are ding now. They have a team of around 40 or more security staff at the Manchester arena , they have around half of that on the main doors at the beginning of the night , put the metal detectors in place etc and you'll keep a steady flow.

Yep. The whole thing smells. We still have no actual footage of the explosion or carnage. Just a boom and people running. This is starting to look like BS. I'm eagerly awaiting more footage.

Exactly. There's no evidence that anything happened other than a loud noise followed by panic. The people killed could have easily been trampled to death. Every image I've seen of people hurt or bleeding looks like they could have been knocked down in the stampede. Plus nothing to suggest damage to the building... where's the proof?! If proof exists, why can't we see it??

People need to wake up, or this country is fucking doomed. This "terrorist" attack absolutely reeks of a false flag.

They got their script sooner.

Didnt assange want to come out with something today on seth rich? Perhaps forces that be needed some diversion...need to buy time to get rid of assange kimdotcom

Ariana Grande was there. She's American, I can imagine there were quite a few Americans there

I doubt it very much. I'll be surprised if there are any Americans amongst the dead, even the wider injured group. I used to live in a Northern UK city twice the size of Manchester and I've never met an American there. They really don't wander far beyond the regular tourist haunts down South.

I doubt it very much.

Ariana Grande was there, probably with her entourage of Americans that keep her organised. Do you not think one of these people can easily get in contact with the media?

Also which northern UK city is twice the size of Manchester? Can't say I've heard of it and I've lived in the north all my life

Oh OK, I thought you meant in the audience. For sure there would be plenty working. The bomb was at the back in the foyer, aimed at the audience. Surprised they didn't try to get to the front and take Ariana out too.

Northern, depending on definition. I don't think of Birmingham as Northern but to most people anything North of the Watford Gap is the grim North. Population is 2x Manchester.

Thought you might've meant Birmingham. It's so far south of me that I don't even consider it northern mind. It's not even past the midway point of the country!

Ha ha, I think it's just North of the centre, which we were always told was Meriden. I think there are different ways to determine where the 'centre' is though. No, I don't think of it as Northern either, I was just using that as shorthand for non-London. Manchester is only 70 miles North of Birmingham though, so it's weird that one is truly Northern and the other isn't Northern at all. 70 miles is next to nothing in most countries, I used to commute that one-way in Melbourne.

Tbf Manchester is still pretty far south of me though I guess it is where things start getting northern. And yes, we are lucky that everything's a bit more compact over here! Can't imagine traveling them sorts of distances every day, must be a right drain on the soul

There was the traditional r/worldnews update comments that started about a nano second after the explosion. There were more than two references (links) in it to people talking about how they hadn't had their bags searched as if this was the strangest thing ever. It isn't. We usually only have light searches for things like drugs and knives (and not really the knives at events like this). One of the twitter accounts it linked to were already unviewable or deleted but yeah, seems to be as if this is really meant to be placed in our minds - that people not being searched was a problem.

I noticed that too! My bags have only been 'searched' (a quick glance in my bag and that's it) here in the US at music festivals, not even regular concerts albeit I usually attend smaller shows. I thought maybe it was different in the UK and that's why they were talking about it so much, but now I really don't understand why they would be focused on it.

I was listening to the peoples description of this event and each of them said the same thing, "there was a bright light and then a boom".

I find that odd as the only thing I know of that can cause that is lightening. I wonder if the white light was generated by a powerful electrical surge? Perhaps if there was a bomb involved it could have been triggered by this light (from an electrical source?) and timed when the lights were turned on.

Would someone feel a compression blast from an electrical explosion?

IDK what really happened but I think we jumped to conculsions to quickly.

False flag to distract from the DNC murdering Seth Rich.

I'm sorry, but when immediately you must ask if this is a false flag you know you live in fucked up times. Bomb was placed in the very corner of the place. So in actuality it wasn't going to harm that many people. Why in such a place? We will need to show more pictures of people actually being injured. No one has seen photos of the dead yet? These false flags are getting more and more obvious. Where was security when checking people coming into this concert?

If you immediately ask if this is a false flag it might be time to put the internet down for a while and ask yourself some serious questions.

Why would I not question if this was a false flag? Major pop star with links creepy links to corporate america. Bomb placed strategically to injure very few people compared to where it presumably could have been place. Major concert where everyone is supposed to be patted down and checked for weapons. A long line of questionable events and flags following this event.

A government that has shown to be totally corrupt.

Yeah, don't question this guys. Just be a dumbass motherfucker following the line.

No one seems to know about Gladio A and B as well.

It's weird that no photos of bloody people have been seen yet. Especially in this age of cell phones.

Just people with a non-bloody bandage here and there.

https://twitter.com/Stevenwhirsch99/status/866805739129643008

Yeah that's the only one I've seen so far... very weird.

Better late than never.

Pics and videos all over Twitter and Facebook.

There are tons of them, what are you on about?

By terrorists do you mean MI5 who usually are behind these attacks?

'7/7 the big picture' by wideshutuk - great doc.

can you elaborate please?

Not without sounding like a raving lunatic

Except British MI5 Officer, Annie Machon, says these attacks are done by MI5 to "create jobs for the boys".

Of course, "raving lunatic" is just a label they apply to anyone who speaks out against corruption. I bet the victims of Jimmy Savile were declared "raving lunatics" while he was still alive.

Annie Machon, says these attacks are done by MI5 to "create jobs for the boys".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YapzPhbFWuk

But the guy blew himself up?

Different psyops are done differently. Some they tell a muslim guy he's part of a drill and to take a bag from point A to B, then they have their own bag planted with a bomb in it and blame it on the muslim. Other false flags there are real islamic extremists and they just let them into the country and don't try to stop them.

I mean ISIS already claimed responsibility but then again they would probably claim responsibility for me stubbing my toe.

Cool, another "terrorism is part of life" person. It wasn't where I am from until....yep you guessed it, Religion of Peace TM shows us what real peace is. Thanks Mohammed.

Also no, the terrorists don't want more laws to protect their potential victims, they would much prefer a continuation of the Schengen accord in the UK and more lax security surrounding tens of thousands of tightly packed infidels, the softer the better.

To say "all" is just as much a lie as saying "not at all" but I know what you're getting at. In this case it's irrelevant who armed them, without the evil political ideology masquerading as a religion you're not getting dessert dwellers to blow themselves and others up.

Muslim aggression against the West is a lot older than occupation of the Middle East. They've been doing this shit for hundreds of years.

No, I'm sick of people pretending "all religions are equally bad," because they're simply not.

I'm aware of the conspiracy. But it has literally nothing to do with anything in talking about.

Well there we have it. By now it's not something we haven't heard before but it still acts as a constant confirmation of how utterly silly it has all become when somebody apologizes for the terrorist groups committing actual, civilian against civilian murder of young girls at an Ariana Grande concert by arguing that, in fact, it is the fault of western civilization and not the threat of Islam to it.

But okay, in the interest of showing you just how silly your implication is let us look at other times when the United States and it's allies have committed crimes of war and crimes against humanity. One of these times was when they trained, armed and funded the Indonesian armed forces in order to conquer the republic of East Timor which led to a genocide more effective than that of the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia in that it killed over a third of the native population, using American guns and bombs.

Now when you look at the al-qaeada manifesto you will see, about third item down, that America and it's imperialist allies must be destroyed because it reversed it's support in East Timor. A charge was put against ALL of us because we come from a place that stopped the genocide and catalyzed East Timor's independence, effectively taking away a nation from the Islamic State, even though the vast majority of people in East Timor are Christians. So for this we can never be forgiven and it was for this that they blew up the UN office in Iraq with a quantity of explosives so large it could only have come from Iraqi military sympathetic to the Ba'ath party. This is why Australian tourists had to lose their lives in Bali.

So make sure you don't upset the muslims, don't for instance tell them that they can't throw acid in the faces of unveiled women in Karachi, because that upsets them. Don't, for heavens sake satire the prophet and God help you should you draw a cartoon of him! You would just be bringing it on to yourself at that point /s.

Just let me have one human right please. Don't include me in your surrender and capitulation of our culture because you were willing to make these comprimises, because I'm not doing it, I am going to fight the theocrats.

I believe you're terribly misinformed if you think modern Islam stands for these horrific atrocities (I don't mean for any disrespect).

Where are you from, if I may ask?

dissembling, there isn't any such thing. modern islam is the same as mo's islam.

Go to Al Jazeera on Facebook after big terrorist attacks and watch all the smiling, laughing, and thumbs up emojis rolling in.

I was specifically commenting on whether "modern Islam stands for these horrific atrocities." Many Muslims do, and I have a million and one videos of them talking about how they do. That's just reality, and pretending like it isn't true doesn't help anyone.

And again stfu with the "all cultures are equally barbaric blah blah." It's a mindless soundbite and it doesn't fool anyone. Islam is more violent than any other major religion in both its texts and its followers. Once again, ignoring this and pretending it isn't a problem at all or that all other religions are just as bad doesn't help anyone.

I'm well aware. Still is co.pletely irrelevant to anything I'm talking about.

Really? Okay. Where does "modern" Islam stand on these things in that case, I am waiting to be informed.

I was born in Sweden and grew up in England, so I am just the right amount of white and privileged for you to feel superior no doubt. I guess where you were going with that question was trying to substantiate whether or not I have a claim to an opinion on this subject at all. Wouldn't it just have been awesome for you if instead I was one of those icky rednecks living in one of those "fly-over" states? YUK!

I didn't mean for my comment to come across wth any sort of disrespect. I'll give you a more proper response when I get the chance later.

There was no perceived disrespect in you asking the question. I suppose the default state of being of so many right now is a constant state of being offended that it causes people to preemptively apologise for asking a very straight forward question.

I am looking forward to your well researched response.

https://mobile.twitter.com/JoeAaronGregory/status/866784565821677569

Here is the video they keep showing of the bomb going off.

This twitter account looks strange to me

Can't see shit, Captain

I'm watching the BBC and it is being called a suicide bombing by "unnamed US sources" and "unconfirmed by Manchester police" which just sounds weird.

These are the worst times to speculate, but fuck. A big vote just around the corner, a lot of English uncertainty, early reports of extra post-Trump innocents getting bombed, general increase of military pressure. Like to think these groups are nearing their last legs but they keep on piping up. It fucking sucks.

That foiled plot in Germany is fresh on my mind as well. I hope this isn't an echo, but hope tends to seem pointless when this happens.

A part of me says that whoever has the most to gain from this is behind this horrific attack. There's so much spin & cynicism these days that it's getting harder & harder to fully know (or get) the truth out of certain world tragedies.

As polls begun to show a steady decline in conservative support, a terrorist attack that will now catapult them through the finish line has occurred. I'm not saying this was an inside job, but it was remarkable timed for such a cow bag that Theresa May is. She's basically guaranteed the election on a silver platter.

The next government will pave the way to more intrusive laws, the retraction of liberty and freedom and the total conquering of the working class. Very sad times ahead.

You think terrorist groups don't know this and use this to their advantage? Isis supports conservative, anti-refugee/immigrant parties in Europe and the US/Canada because that bolsters their cause. They want, above all else, for all Muslims (especially those in the West) to feel rejected and offended by the West, so that they only feel accepted by radical groups. No better way to do that then commit terrorist acts at strategic times that help parties spewing anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant rhetoric.

Conservative groups didn't have to be behind this terrorist attack. Isis and Conservatives have the same goal in this election. Whatever helps one helps the other, at least until election day.

Isis is, or Isis is made up of people who were previously funded and trained by foreign intelligence to fight a common enemy? I just hear this a lot and find it hard to believe that you have evidence that MI6 (i assume you meant 6, not 5) is going out and telling foreign terrorists "go blow up our stadiums" and you found out about it.

Look up the Gladio programs. Corbett Report has great segments on them. Very crude synopsis is "state sponsored false flags."

What about the other 100 terrorist attacks that have occured in the last ~5 years? Were they all conservative ploys as well?

May be not, the Tory war conference been in power the last 7 years and this happened on their watch. Corbyn should be on t.v. saying 'it's not very fucking strong and stable is it?!' But he can't obviously. Both parties have suspended their campaigns, helpful to the torys as when May speaks more people choose to vote Labour.

True, and the use of Occam's Razor on events like this tends to reveal its likelihood of being a false flag.

The day after the msm actually start reporting on may being a cunt....

The day after the msm actually start reporting on may being a cunt....

https://youtu.be/OwMLD3RvQSA

They announce on the pa that its not a real attack.

Seriously wtf guys, ISIS is home grown CIA Mossad bullshit, it was at an Ariana G concert too, how blind do you have to be

Whats the Ariana Grande relevance? Not attacking you, genuinely interested.

She's a part of the Hollywood satanic pedophilia etc group, Disney kid

please don't take away more of my rights

But what if we take away the rights of other people too, that chill with you? /s

The fact that one person or a small group of people (because whether it was a lone wolf, ISIS, or the CIA it's still a relatively obscure number of people) can shape what turns into the refusal of fundamental rights for everybody is obscene.

Any proof this is real and not another Hoax? All the youtube videos don't show jack shit. Everyone is recording at Concerts, there should be something of substance out there.

Eh it was supposedly after the concert had finished. It was also in an outer foyer, where I'd guess people are a lot less likely to be filming.

https://youtu.be/OwMLD3RvQSA

I agree with you OP, but I also think this is used to continue the insane immigration policies of many western nations. Funny also how an overwhelming majority of these refugees are male. It seems that there is a definite agenda behind this continued program of allowing the flood of illegal aliens and refugees. Maybe to change the face of European nations and the United States? Maybe in a deluded belief that if people are mingled in a quicker time-frame, that racism and nationalism will cease to be?

https://youtu.be/_kKkY5EpVpY

Freedom has its drawbacks

These attacks are not normal drawbacks.

What rights have you lost to higher security standards?!

Removed. Rule 6.

No, I'm not going to delete this for rule 10; I have no problem with people questioning my decisions.

But yes, I do feel it necessary to enforce the rules as they are written. Bold text, and especially header text like this, draws attention to itself and away from other comments. No one gets to unilaterally decide their content is more worthy of viewers attention than anyone else's, and if we let it go, we'll get threads that look like T_D.

I called this earlier, saying there would be an event to distract from the Seth Rich stuff coming out tomorrow. And timely for the U.K., as they've postponed the parliament elections coming up. This shit needs to stop and people need to wake up.

Wouldn't it be more sensie to orchestrate a false flag in America where a few people actually know about Seth Rich? I ask my friends in England but nobody knows who he is. Nothing in the UK newspapers either. So probably not a false flag.

are you talking about govt ability to spy on innocent people? or are you talking about the government having some semblance of background checks while letting fighting aged males into the country from terrorism hotbeds ?

Very well said.

Not sure how this got so many upvotes

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2760170/Ariana-Grande-said-hoped-fans-f-ing-die.html

It's been a police state for a long time.

This couldn't be more false flag of it was officially deemed false flag

Where is your evidence that makes this so obvious to be a false flag ?

Violence over there; Increase the military budget. Violence over here; increase the police state/grow the government. TPTB just play us like a fiddle don't they?

Pictures of injured possibly dead victims of the blast.

http://imgur.com/a/kpKED

"terrorists"

"Losers" that's what they are... "losers"

If this results in even more draconian Tory denigration of our freedom I'd say we're the losers here.

Apparently there was a "controlled explosion police training" earlier today close to the arena where this happened. What are the odds?

Especially when an attack happens the day after the sitting war mongering government got battered by the opposition pubicly and the msm actually started doing their jobs and questioning the sanity of the conservatives. These attacks are always conveniently timed...oh and guess who had a 'training exercise' a few days ago for a terrorist attack...

Ok Akbar

non citizens have no rights here Muhammad.

<The terrorists want that.

No they fucking don't. They want our governments to stop fucking around in their countries.

I know I'm probably stupid and this is nothing at all, but apparently the Sun newspaper first reported on this event on 22/05/2017 at 1am GMT even though it happened on the evening of the 22nd at like 10-11pm GMT which is weird. They've since edited this.

http://imgur.com/a/Ec204

http://imgur.com/a/3nmWe

As a brit Im thinking of voiding my ballot paper as I believe both sides of the coin are equally as bad. For those voting labour do you really think it will make a difference? Genuinely asking and not trying to appear cocky - I've just lost all hope in the system.

You appreciate there are more than two choices here?

Of course but depending on what your beliefs are which party is the least corrupt to vote for? If any are at that.

The problem is that if a non-corrupt party actually get power the real power above the level of the participation theatre of politics will corrupt or kill them to maintain the control structure.

I agree. The way I see it is that both primary candidates are terrible leaders, the most frightening thing I found was Corbyn's views on the military and our nuclear weapons , he has openly stated he wants to downsize our military and get rid , yes 'get rid' , of our nuclear weapons. So the way I see it is , better the devil you know.

You can't change the system from within the framework of the existing system, so if you don't feel strongly for any candidate, don't vote, but again, don't vote if you don't believe in this system (just spoil your vote).

I am all for a progression towards a green, clean, and free society. I don't want classes/money, I don't want wars/violence, etc. I would like for us to be working towards a resource-based economy with clean energy where education is the main focus and we have everything we need as a basic human right.

It boils down to, do I agree with a few people that were/are 'conniving' and 'clever' enough that they are now on-top of the economic charts, and want to stay there, or, am I for every-man, where I want the best opportunities for all people to make the best of themselves and their time on earth?

To me, it's a no brainer who to vote for. The minutia of the policies don't concern me as much as the ethos of the manifestos. There is a bigger picture to consider and bring into focus, and I'd rather look at that, than where I think May will take us.

Thanks for your logical and detailed explanation. I am of the same beliefs as yourself but don't feel the choice is obvious (as to me pretty much all politicians are corrupt, two faced egotistical slime-balls) so was curious when you said it's a no brainer who to vote for, who you were referring to by that? Labour, The Greens, The Lib-dems or some other party?

Well, I fear we'll get a little off-topic and meta if we continue talking like this, and before that happens, I agree with your sentiment in that politicians are corrupt/two faced. It's prevented me from voting in any other election to date for that very reason. I'm early 30's by the way, and have been continually and massively disillusioned with what I've seen in politics from my earliest memories (earliest being John Major as a kid).

To preface the next statement, I must say something I've only just quite recently solidified into my understanding (of myself and others), which is the human condition and "reason for being/living/existing/take-your-pick". Human beings, being animals, seek some form of hierarchy, and generally certain types of people want to attain a position of power and comfort above the others. Reasons can be from personal desire, to wanting to have the power to help others etc.

Given that we're here for such a short amount of time (<100 years) what people do to have this time be as comfortable as possible makes sense. By that, I mean things like back-stabbing, back-handers, etc. Let's not be coy, as the royalty of old would have been the victors of these types of people; people do extraordinary things in order to elevate themselves above others to make their status higher and more comfortable.

So, when I see people (like May) behave as she does, and make decisions for who she does, I feel I understand it. That being said my understanding of it does not validate it as being a "good reason" so-to-speak, and by that I do not say she is 'evil' for it. Whilst I understand that people, in-general, want the best for themselves and their offspring, and that keeping people below them would essentially benefit their standing (longevity in the position at least), I cannot abide by this notion if it divides humanity into a class system, or one that gives labels to make us feel separate or uncommon to one-another. I feel we should view humanity as a whole and feel empathy and have understanding for each other, and holding onto one's "way of life" or status/standing does nothing at all to help my ideals.

So, in summary, I'll be voting Labour, because I don't care about things like borders (who decided humans can't go anywhere they want on Earth?), and things like warfare (I don't want anyone killed for my own protection), and things like green energy (I don't want what is left of the Earth to be painful for those left).

To speak as succinctly as possible, May cares only for herself and her life, and keeping those that help her achieve it where they are. She is a selfish person that likely knows no better (and I do not pass judgement on her to say this is evil; it's understandable). Corbyn's history in politics is studded with his belief that we should discuss, understand and talk things through, with minimal violence to elevate the future generations to higher positions/knowledge etc. and to ultimately (although I might be putting words in his mouth) make humanity better, by investment into the future. May wants as much as she can get for her and her little tribe, for as long as they can, whilst Corbyn is the one saying "there can be a way for all of us to have what we need; let us find a way".

Thank you very much for this! I'm mid 30's myself so everything you have just said resonates well with me and I whole heartedly agree with everything you've mentioned. I agree with your sentiment on May - although somewhat understandable her policy is to divide and conquer which does seem to be the opposite view to that of Corbyn's beliefs. I was going to vote Labour but then my mind swayed and I believe he will be manipulated by those on the next level up to do what is best for them rather than for the people. However you raise a good point for me: I might as well vote for Labour rather than void my ballot paper to at least attempt to ensure that the lesser of 2 possible evils gets pushed through rather than the devil (May) herself. Thanks very much once again as you've helped me rationalise my decision!

This attack does several things. It will negative a surge in the polls which Labour have been seeing this last week. The media will take this as an opportunity to attack Corbyn for being soft and May will undoubtedly use the leverage of increased security for political capital. Andy Burnam's profile will increase and he'll most likely take over as a more acceptable leader of the Labour party after the election.

The CIA have form in the UK for interfering with election cycles setting the media narrative and political character assassination. Wikileaks leaks some time ago revealed they had a couple members of parliament within the Labour party who were feeding them information at the last election.

I also find the timing of it very suspicious not only in regard to the general election itself but also relating to Trump moving forward the schedule of his overseas trip. Being in Israel a day ahead of time is too good to be true.

I hate saying it because it's said a lot and in many cases spuriously but if you're looking a for a false flag event this one checks a lot of those boxes.

bad things happen

The psychopaths in power (namely, MI6 and the CIA in this case) make bad things happen.

Didn't things seem a lot less calmer before 9/11?, it's like some sort of shift happened that change us it's like eerie feeling.

I think anyone ever shanked in prison might disagree that safety and security is absolute there...

Greater Manchester Polive have confirmed they have made an arrest in the south of Manchester relating to the bombing last night , a 23 year old male.

The West is learning a couple of hard lessons: You can't be benevolent and kind to people who will use these as a weapon against you and, you can't treat cultures who despise democratic ideals as anything but enemies.

I think you all see this as a distraction from American issues. But I think it's entirely to win the election for the Tories. The opposition is considered soft, whilst May is considered the war queen or something of the two, so to push this out there and ask Corbyn what he would do is setting him up to fail. He is constantly put into hypothetical wars and refuses to say he'd send troops without knowing the full story (as he should), yet is called weak for this. The election is in a month. This is perfectly timed. The tories will win. They will increase security. We will suffer

And that's the real truth

The terrorists want that.

The government wants that

This is the really frustrating part for me. No matter your political view point, a person has to agree that at least one of these statements is true if not both. But yet we still cave to that fear.

Ariana Grande wants that.

drudge cites 22 dead in manchester. Fox shows about 4 short clips, repeated constantly, and showing the outside of the stadium. But only one ambulance and about 15 guys standing around in green vests, doing nothing. maybe 50 casualties and one ambulance???????????

Seems like just another "terrorist act" to pass some sort of freedom restricting law. They just want the masses to be always scared.... been like that for years

I love how in the first hour of the attacks. The news networks are like we have to increase surveillance to prevent future attacks.

I agree with the main point of your message. I take two exceptions though. Prisons are not safe and secure for prisoners or staff. Don't use bs to sell your message please. Secondly, too soon. Let the families bury their dead before you push this message, otherwise it comes off as crass. And more importantly the people that need to hear this message will probably not be receptive to it right now. You need to let emotions settle a little bit.

And what kind of rights would you lose by properly vetting your "refugees"?

The terrorists want that.

I submit they've had "that" for over 15 years, with the added bonus of "open borders".

Sure but letting terrorists in all day everyday doesn't help your chances either.

Prisons are not very safe.

http://imgur.com/a/WxEFB This tweet is apparently from the day before the bombing , the girl who wrote it is one of the named dead, quite probably nothing but it's very coincidental and worth noting.

22-05-13 lee rigby murder 22-03-16 Brussels attack 22-07-16 Munich attack 22-03-17 London attack 22-05-17 Manchester attack 22-07-17 ??? Can you see a pattern?

the Sunderland air show is on the 22-07-17, also Gay parade

the terrorists the powers that be want that that FTFY

The home Secretary is 'irritated' with the US for leaking details about the Bomber.

'Ms Rudd said the British had wanted to control the flow of information to "keep the element of surprise'

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/40026413

Well it's simple, enough people rally together and support the same cause they won't have any choice but to listen. It's just enough people actually have to be bothered about the subject then it'll work! you can't just moan at home, then complain nothing's being changed lol also petitions are also another good way. That's just to name a couple. So there are plenty of ways it's just whether you can be bothered or not!

http://i.imgur.com/qOE6kW7.jpg

Yep, reports of nail-bomb coming in thick and fast now, bomb disposal at the scene

Yeah the whole entire country is under cctv surveillance

It's about to get a lot worse.

May will now win a huge victory and be free to introduce all her insane controls on the internet and surveillance.

Buckle up fellow brits it's about to get rough

It's not that the US press knows more than British officials, it's that they're more willing to speak about it publically.

You think terrorist groups don't know this and use this to their advantage? Isis supports conservative, anti-refugee/immigrant parties in Europe and the US/Canada because that bolsters their cause. They want, above all else, for all Muslims (especially those in the West) to feel rejected and offended by the West, so that they only feel accepted by radical groups. No better way to do that then commit terrorist acts at strategic times that help parties spewing anti-Muslim or anti-immigrant rhetoric.

Conservative groups didn't have to be behind this terrorist attack. Isis and Conservatives have the same goal in this election. Whatever helps one helps the other, at least until election day.

What about the other 100 terrorist attacks that have occured in the last ~5 years? Were they all conservative ploys as well?

Metal detectors on that arena too surely..

May be not, the Tory war conference been in power the last 7 years and this happened on their watch. Corbyn should be on t.v. saying 'it's not very fucking strong and stable is it?!' But he can't obviously. Both parties have suspended their campaigns, helpful to the torys as when May speaks more people choose to vote Labour.

I disagree.

And that this was in any way linked to her - these comments are fucked up...

Yes, but IRA has (had?) a whole different agenda than this type of terrorism - but I guess in the end of the day it doesn't really matter where you detonate a bomb because pictures of dead kids and teens on news weigh more than any territorial debate.

I still don't think this was a false flag incident purely down to the execution. One single fanatic is far too risky for a planned false flag operation. The more the merrier and less chance of failure.

But I'm not working for a rogue government planning events like that so it's pure speculation from my part - and I can be wrong because I've got nothing to prove my theory, but realistically I think my theory is most likely correct.

Not quite Disney kid, surrounded by megastars

stop being willfully lazy/obtuse. you can find the answer in less than 30 seconds with a couple clicks.

I'm British. Could you elaborate on that a little further please?

And the US is well on it's way thanks to the "Patriot" Act. And the sad thing is when the next terrorist attack occurs on our soil, I will be arguing with people hear that it's not OK to give up more of our freedoms for a false sense of security.

Send me conflicting evidence of what has been reported in the media.

How difficult is that to do if you want to claim false flag.

It should be the basis of a false flag argument. Conflicting evidence. Not notions about CIA operations.

You can't have a debate about a claim without any evidence or conflicting evidence.

Make you look foolish as shit.