Some thoughts on how to use this sub
435 2017-05-26 by CelineHagbard
I've been active on this sub for about three years now, mostly as a user, but recently as a mod as well. I've been studying conspiracy theory of one sort or another for almost a decade. This is not an authoritative guide, but a record of some of the things I've picked up over the years which you may or may not find helpful.
Upvotes and Comments
The number of upvotes and replies a post or comment has is pretty much the worst way to judge something. Various agencies and organizations do hire shills and vote bots to influence social media, but even if they didn't, the wisdom of the crowd is only so good in a sub like this, where people's opinions are driven largely by media narratives from multiple political persuasions, each with their own agenda and/or personal bias. If you want to get closer to the truth, on any topic, you need to develop your own critical thinking faculties. This means examining the source of information, the credibility of that source, any ulterior motives that source may have, etc.
Confirmation Bias
This is an inherent cognitive bias we all have. You can't completely rid yourself of it, but you can learn to recognize it and compensate for it. If you find yourself upvoting a post or comment because you want it to be true before you apply critical thought to it, you're likely experiencing confirmation bias. The skeptical approach is one of the better ways to combat it: assume the opposite of your belief, try to tear down the argument presented as best you can, and if you cannot, you can place that argument in the "tentatively true" category. Familiarize yourself with other cognitive biases and logical fallacies, primarily so you can find the fault in your own thinking, but also so you can put yourself in another user's shoes and see why they may think a certain way. But in general, try to avoid merely calling out a fallacy or bias; explain clearly why your argument avoids that fallacy.
The Nature of Certainty
It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
--Aristotle(Apparently not Aristotle, but still worth considering.)
Keep your bead on the wire. In short, imagine a bead on a wire between 0 and 1—0 meaning complete disbelief and 1 being absolute certainty on any given hypothesis. The idea is that if you ever let your bead get all the way to one end or the other, it becomes very difficult to dislodge it. If you keep your bead somewhere in the middle, even if very close to one end, you will remain open to new information.
Shills and Rule 10
This will undoubtedly be a contentious point for many. I don't doubt the existence of shills, but that's not the point of Rule 10. If you don't know what I mean by shills, I mean users who are paid to push a narrative or disrupt and divide an online community. Check out The Gentleman's Guide to Forum Spies and this Intercept article on JTRIG for more information. The article cites two self-identified purposes of JTRIG:
- to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and
- to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable.
Labeling another user as a shill would fall under JTRIG's mission—it's attempting to destroy someone's reputation so as to manipulate the discourse. It muddies the waters and slides the conversation at hand. It's also one of the weakest forms of argument. Feel free to spread information about shills in the general sense—it's very important that people know of their existence and tactics—but you're not winning the information war by calling users who disagree with you shills.
If you think you're talking to a shill, the best strategy is to present your argument clearly and calmly, point out any fallacies in their logic, and then walk away. To the extent they exist, they want to drag you into a fruitless conversation and waste your time. Continuing to engage or calling them out means they win; don't let them bait you. Aim for the top of the pyramid.
The /new Queue
Given the prevalence of vote bots, brigades, and other voting patterns, if you're genuinely interested in discovering new information here, your best bet is to go to /r/conspiracy/new. If you're new to reddit, this is where you will find posts as they come in, unfiltered by any other opinions. Upvote the good, add to the conversation, and downvote the bad. As a reminder, we have a 2-day moratorium on new accounts posting here to cut down on spam.
What This Sub Is and What It Isn't
This sub is first and foremost a forum for open discussion. The range of subjects is somewhat intentionally left vague. We mods try not remove any content (other than that which breaks site-wide rules), yet we do moderate behavior that gets in the way of that open discussion. You may think that this sub has been "taken over" by one side of the political spectrum or the other, and from time to time it is. We have no control or recourse over voting bots, and we get brigaded from multiples sides frequently.
This sub might best be seen as a mess of obfuscation and disinformation where sometimes, the truth is able to slip through a crack. We can't fight that obfuscation without sealing the cracks. The best we can hope for is to catch a glimpse of that truth and help it find it's way to others. This sub is not and cannot be some beacon of truth, be it your truth or mine; at it's best, though, it can be the last large refuge on this site where that truth has a chance to live.
What This Sub Can Be
There are some smaller subs where the truth can dance and be free, yet has no wings to fly. Here, it must struggle just to breathe, let alone thrive, yet we do have some reach. This sub can only be what you choose to put into it and what you are able to get out of it. All I can ask, all I can hope, is that you enter as a student and a seeker of the truth, and that you put that ideal above your need to be right or your desire to change minds.
201 comments
n/a Ninjakick666 2017-05-26
Good post! Hope it gives some folks a better perspective on how things work around here... I think a lot of folks get frustrated over stuff outside of the control of the mods... when it isn't the job of the mods to determine what is right and wrong... just what breaks the rules.
n/a riseandbeshotdown 2017-05-26
About mods removing content, where did the Dover demon thread go? Or am I overlooking it? I wanted to comment in it. It was not a meme, which the particular mod kept repeating...
Not trying to attack the mod but it's a shame to see something posted here that isn't the typical reposted political stuff and it gets removed.
If it's still up and I'm just blind please disregard. :)
n/a OlDubya 2017-05-26
Post something about how America is Rome and see how quickly it is removed
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Do you have an example? If you make a self.post that just says "America is Rome," yeah that will get removed under Rule 12, but if you lay out an argument I don't see why there'd be an issue.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
Pay attention to the language you use.
You counter with an already negative outlook. Its prevalent within Reddit as a whole. You don't care for discussion only validation.
Such an indecisive sentence. You make it as if you really don't know and are not sure of the ability to lobby upon the merits of the post.
This is something I for one see as failures upon the leadership structure within this moderation team. You can't agree on anything and your rules as so damn vague that its impossible to clarify it.
So in the spirit of Reddit mentality this mod team like so many others here just waits until there is backlash. Then it is time to talk about it.
Lol the tells me you are either not here for the community or you are not on a standard to communicate in a manner to which is better for your subscribers.
n/a JamesColesPardon 2017-05-26
No. /u/Celinehagbard has been around long enough to know that anything xe says will be used against him when something he says doesn't turn out 100% the way he says so, because he's not in charge here and doesn't have final say - but I agree it shouldn't be a problem.
That doesn't mean multiple other things could happen between then and now making whatever wishy washy non committal pointless, so CH hedges bets and adds a should in there for sanity's sake.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
I see a lack of leadership and delegation of authority.
I see the ineptitude of ineffectual authority. How you can't maintain the sterility of your sub and you are now trying to cover for one another as you always have.
I have got what I wanted and that was some people to read what I said and by doing so it managed to plant the seed of doubt within your leadership.
You can do as you wish, but I will be on Voat if you wish to leave your safe space and see what true expression is without limits.
-adhdferret
n/a Rayfloyd 2017-05-26
We still have no answer to why /u/nibiru_chaser was permabanned for calling a cat, a cat.
n/a snowmandan 2017-05-26
Don't expect one
n/a Rayfloyd 2017-05-26
Maybe we should gear up... /r/PitchforkEmpirium
n/a DeepStateOfMind 2017-05-26
/u/TrumpRusConspiracy was banned (and then unbanned) with no reason given too.
n/a TrumpRusConspiracy 2017-05-26
Oh wow, thank you for letting me know. I had no idea.
Thank you mods for your benevolence.
n/a tadm123 2017-05-26
How do you know?
n/a DeepStateOfMind 2017-05-26
I asked.
n/a EccentricRichAndSexy 2017-05-26
https://snew.github.io/r/conspiracy/about/log
n/a Rightfull9 2017-05-26
Banned for what?
n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-05-26
Probably Rule 10 for their post about a mod.
n/a Tha_Dude_Abidez 2017-05-26
They banned me too for taking up for /u/nibiru_chaser. I was unbanned after they requested me to "drop the complaining about other people's bans who you have nothing to do with." Sheesh. I have to start acting more dude like.
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
The "Dover Demon" post was removed by a mod multiple times. It is an actual story that ran in newspapers and was seen by police. I used 2 different photos that were completely acceptable. They were removed multiple times and I was told it is a rule 8 violation. Sadly that story will not be shared with others on this great sub...
n/a thebabyseagull 2017-05-26
I saw that thread.
It was an awesome find.
Where did you come across it?
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
I am friends with an older gentleman who was the assistant to J.B. Rhine. This man has investigated UFO, Aliens, Haunted Houses worldwide for decades. He told me the police chief of the very wealthy and private town of Dover, Massachusetts had seen the "Dover Demon". Many high level people in that town also saw it in broad daylight.
n/a thebabyseagull 2017-05-26
Link it again here.
The mods won't remove it now because its part of a legitimate discussion.
Any way I thought it great.
Old newspapers are a gold mine.
Anyone know of a site that you can search through old newspapers archives,that would be brilliant?
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
Share in on Voat.co
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
Hi. Thanks for the suggestion. I like to stay exclusively on this sub because I think it is really changing the world...
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
Voat is small, but we would appreciate you content very much. I know I would.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
There is a meme on the front page of Voat right now.
I am going to paraphrase it so you get the idea.
You think about that mindset and how prolific it is here on this site. Look at the safe space they are trying to create within this subverse alone.
Such rules to hinder development. So what a person gets passionate and calls you names about something you said.
Honestly so what? Does it diminish the point of your post? Highly unlikely and the community of Voat protects its content creators.
These mods are on Voat as well on conspiracy. So I implore you to make your own on Voat. Give people the content whom will discuss it and will promote discussion.
Don't stay here in shackles and chained to them.
I will put it to you this was. I feel uneasy here. I know they will likely ban me or delete the comments first chance I screw up and they can claim it with a rule.
You also can't see what mods are deleting. On Voat you can.
One of the mods here also mods history on Voat. I made a submission about when Voat became Voat or at least got the name idea. Was a post from the creator of Voat and another were talking about the name.
Well it was deleted because it wasn't relevant they said. But for 1.3y before that not one deletion had been made. I happened to moderate the coontown equivalent on Voat at the time.
I mentioned it as a reason and they denied it. But fact still stands they play favorites here and over there. You will never have true discussion in this place.
n/a OlDubya 2017-05-26
I stay here because the mods, shills are regular people for the most part. Their religion,beliefs,ideals mean nothing to me. Most people will say they weren't warned. Those who are introduced to things here by myself and a handful of other users who consistently get people to think won't be able to lie in the face of God.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
I am not satisfied with good enough. Its why I like Voat because I get a say. I can call out behavior and actions will be taken if there are some that can.
Admin will not interfere in most cases. There are times when they have and they explained their reasons and answered questions as well.
Mods who are not active within their communities we are working on ways to out them in oder for those that are.
n/a OlDubya 2017-05-26
I stay here because the mods, shills are regular people for the most part. Their religion,beliefs,ideals mean nothing to me. Most people will say they weren't warned. Those who are introduced to things here by myself and a handful of other users who consistently get people to think won't be able to lie in the face of God.
n/a OlDubya 2017-05-26
I stay here because the mods, shills are regular people for the most part. Their religion,beliefs,ideals mean nothing to me. Most people will say they weren't warned. Those who are introduced to things here by myself and a handful of other users who consistently get people to think won't be able to lie in the face of God.
n/a OlDubya 2017-05-26
I stay here because the mods, shills are regular people for the most part. Their religion,beliefs,ideals mean nothing to me. Most people will say they weren't warned. Those who are introduced to things here by myself and a handful of other users who consistently get people to think won't be able to lie in the face of God.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Reddit in general? No. But we have public mod logs on this sub, link in the sidebar.
That's your opinion, and we have no problem letting you express it here.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
You have proof admin has edited comments and manipulate votes to encourage alternate course of topics and you defend it?
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I'm no fan of what spez did and spoke out against it at the time, but is this happening regularly? I've seen no evidence of it.
Are votes manipulated here? Yes, that was literally the first point I made in this post. I can guarantee you if voat gets big enough to matter, the votes will be manipulated there, too. There's no software solution to the issue of vote manipulation on a forum that allows open, anonymous registration. Any sufficiently determined adversary can manipulate it.
Look, if you want to use and promote voat, I won't stop you. There are some features there I prefer, too, and reddit's far from perfect, but as it stands it's the largest platform of its kind. As soon as there's a viable decentralized alternative, I'm there. But voat is not that, at least for me.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
I promote the ideas of a non censored group. Currently that is Voat. I agree it isn't perfect in the slightest, but we are however actually able to ask things of admin and they are implemented.
We do NOT have vote skew where you can't tell if a post is being brigaded. We do have post view counters to actually tell if a post is popular. Many people do care about those points I don't.
I care about view counts on submissions I make. I also don't trust a bot that someone controls. The deletions logs within subverses and users who are banned by admin and the list of forbidden links is also something Reddit will not provide.
We have an admin that will fight for freedom of expression for conspiracy and the less desirable subverses just the same. Long as site rules are not broken.
Hell we had a user actually dox the admin of Voat once. They were not banned...well the main account the alts were later when it was discovered they were manipulating votes on posts and users demanded action.
You think about that level of commitment a CEO has for just a moment.
Do you think for even one moment just one that would have happened here?
You are a mod of conspiracy and you are part of one by being here.
n/a carpenteer 2017-05-26
you said "coontown" and yet you want Reddit to give you a forum!?!? GTFO
n/a Putin_loves_cats 2017-05-26
If you don't mind, could you post it to /r/AlternativeHistory? It will not get removed there, I promise you that.
n/a cheshire_ranch 2017-05-26
what? no dude spread the knowledge lmao. what a silly naive reason. post this to voat dude otherwise u sound like ur paid to be here
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
fair enough. i will be on there tomorrow night.
n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-05-26
Is that even still around? I thought they were shutting down.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
No it wasn't because the userbase pulled a hail Mary and managed to get 27,000 dollars
The linux and other communities are working together to port to a new means that is much cheaper as well.
n/a crielan 2017-05-26
Was this today or recently?
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
earlier today.
n/a crielan 2017-05-26
Thanks. Was it just a picture or was there additional information provide in the post?
n/a crielan 2017-05-26
I've since found the thread. Yeah that was definitely sketchy. You said they also removed a post a few weeks ago too? Was it ever reinstated?
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
Hi. The post about the "Black Nobility" was reinstated with a different photo and got a great response. It received roughly 200 upvotes.
n/a mastigia 2017-05-26
I haven't seen a Denver demon thread. You have a link?
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
Its gone. A mod removed it multiple times saying it was a "meme".
n/a mastigia 2017-05-26
I am reapproving the one that has the most comments.
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
Thank you. I truly appreciate it.
n/a mastigia 2017-05-26
Please don't submit any other reposts of this same thing or I won't have a leg to stand on when I invariably get called out for going against another decision.
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
You have always done outstanding work on here posting btw. It is great to see a gifted researcher become a mod.
n/a mastigia 2017-05-26
Haha, I dunno about gifted researcher, I just talk a lot. Which my wife finds hilarious, because I am basically silent in my regular life.
n/a astralrocker2001 2017-05-26
well your input on here is appreciated by many...
n/a Rayfloyd 2017-05-26
Regular life doesn't have anything interesting to talk about. Well, not when we compare with what's going on in the world...
n/a mastigia 2017-05-26
Meat world is way overrated.
n/a wonderlandtrip 2017-05-26
Youre who mods should be
n/a mastigia 2017-05-26
=) thanks
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I'm looking into it and started a modmail thread.
We sometimes make mistakes, and our rules have a bit of subjectivity and sometimes we disagree with their interpretation. If you ever have a question or dispute a removal, please contact us through modmail first, as it guarantees that all of us who are online will see it, and you'll get an explanation or reversal quicker that way.
You're free to call out or decisions in public as well, but it gets close to crossing the line when you insinuate or accuse a mod of being a shill or compromised (you didn't do that here; I'm just speaking in general).
n/a Sarah_Connor 2017-05-26
We are still debating that removal.... Hang in there.
We dont want memes, that image is totally germane to this /r/ -- I think what we should do, as I mentioned in that thread, is encourage /u/ who want to post such images also provide their own commentary, additional notext, thoughts etc...
Like the fact that the OP knew a guy who talked to the police chief blah blah... thats good info to add to a post, and garners more discussion than simply an image post.
I think the idea is just to put a tiny bit more effort into a post that simply a link to an image.
n/a FannyRagBag 2017-05-26
I've got records of 6 popular threads the mods deleted/censored in the past 3 months alone.
The two most popular threads in this subs history were censored. Without explanation.
Mods are or are in bed with the TD mods.
n/a FaJiTa-SalesmeN 2017-05-26
Could you link them?
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
Hahaha you try not to remove content.
Whatever the mod team here is in bed with those that demand censorship of topics. There is no discussion allowed her there is no passion allowed. It is bland and non effectual.
You are all self serving for relavancy as you pander to one another and leave useless stickies up. Pretending to allow users to become a part of the "team" of moderators.
Want some real discussion people reading this before it is likely deleted?
Go to Voat.co sure it has racism and there will be people that don't like you, but at least you know it. The truth isn't hidden from you as people try to convince you they care.
You can't stay in a safe place if you want truth. Hope to see you there.
-adhdferret on Voat.co
n/a douguncensored 2017-05-26
I saw thread containing very frank discussion about the holocaust and some of the myths surrounding it get removed last week.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
What subverse?
Because depending on where it was we actually have a way to make a difference.
n/a douguncensored 2017-05-26
I meant on this sub.
I haven't checked out voat yet, but I definitely will now.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
By all means I will bring it up if it was within our methods of dealing with shit like that.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
You find anything yet?
n/a axolotl_peyotl 2017-05-26
/v/conspiracy!
I'm a mod there :)
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
Do you support the votes being hidden for an indefinite period of time on posts and comments, the [score hidden] feature on this subreddit?
Are you going to try to prevent this from happening to this sub?
How Reddit Was Destroyed
Do you think there is an agenda to infiltrate and 'rule or ruin' this sub by Reddit Admins or Other agencies?
Otherwise some good points. The platform of Reddit itself is the beauty of the website. The vision of Aaron Swartz and his respect for the users is what made this place so great.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I'm actually not aware of whether we do or not on this sub; as a mod I can see them anyway. What are the pros and cons?
Yes to the extent I can, I'd like to prevent that. I assume you're specifically referring to rule 10? I still maintain that it keeps the discourse (slightly) above the shit-slinging shill accusations. I wrote a lengthy comment explaining how if I was running a shilling operation (the disrupt and divide type, not the candidate or company shilling), then what I'd do is make constant shill accusations to slide conversations. I can try to dig it up if you want.
But on rule 10, I'd support a temporary suspension on removing shill/troll accusations to see what happens. I've broached it in modmail, and I think it might have legs.
Oh absolutely. I think most of the mod team does. I don't think removing rule 10 will fix that though.
n/a edgarallenbro 2017-05-26
I don't think people should be banned for rule 10.
I was guilty for it, and I'm sorry for it. I now realize what a huge fallacy it is and how easy of an intellectual trap it is to fall into to just accuse someone you disagree with of being a shill.
I came to the understanding that there are actually very few real shills, and that their purpose is to sow distrust, which I was perpetuating by falling into the trap.
Getting banned taught me that lesson, and now I don't do it anymore.
However, I was never given a chance to learn that lesson before being banned. I was just banned. The first time, the mod decided I didn't need a warning because he looked through my posting history and saw I'd done it more than once. The second time, I'd been being careful not to break the rules for weeks, and was having a bad day and broke rule 10, and got banned because I'd already been banned for it before.
The mod decided to skip removing my comment, and just went straight to a ban both times.
My suggestion is that instead, the comments get removed, with a copy & paste reply that explains the WHY of rule 10, instead of just expecting people to bend over and take a ban for it.
The reasoning for this is that getting banned became a huge ordeal for me both times just to get unbanned. It became all I could think about, and I couldn't get any work done until I'd appealed to the mods to be unbanned.
As a result, I simply don't participate here as much as I used to. I can't justify being distracted from an entire day's work because I got myself banned for shitposting.
I honestly cannot fathom why any mod felt that any of the comments I made deserved a ban with no warning, and it made me lose a ton of respect for this sub.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
You deleted your offending comments, which in general makes it very hard to appeal a ban as we can't see why you were banned. In general, we do try to give warnings, but when there are multiple rule violating comments in a short period of time, we sometimes assume it's wanton disregard for the rules and issue an immediate ban.
We're generally pretty lenient about lifting bans if the user agrees not to do it again, as happened in your case. If we unban someone and the break the rule, what should we do? We get plenty of rule 10 violations as it is without having to deal with users who already agreed they won't break it.
I think we're pretty fair on bans regarding rule 10. I almost always give two warnings, as do most mods. Your original ban might have be a bit abrupt, but the second one was warranted.
n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-05-26
I got banned without warning for 8 days not that long ago, with absolutely no explanation for the ban. I think it was you I finally got into contact with who wasn't able to give me a definite answer as to why I was banned beyond it possibly being because I was encouraging people to report a post because a certain mod decided to add some flair to the post in an obvious attempt to direct conversation so Trump seemed innocent.
What rules do mods have in place for each other regarding proper ban procedures? Some people get a few warnings and others just straight up get banned by
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Do you happen to have a link to the comment or the modmail discussion? I don't see anything obvious in your history. Once we lift a ban, there's no easy way to tell who issued it, and searching through modmail is ridiculously difficult.
There's a ban appeal process where we can overrule a ban by vote if we feel the ban was unjustified. As far as bans without warnings, I generally argue against it unless a user is only making rule violating comments and not contributing.
n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-05-26
My ban was a while back and I discovered which mod did it through looking at the mod log on the sidebar. There were no removed comments or warnings, just a ban. I'm over it now though, so it's not a big deal.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Yeah, mod log only goes back so far (a reddit API limitation). We do try to take ban appeals seriously.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
On Voat the mod actions (bans, and comment as well as submission removals)
Go back as far as the subverse was created. Reasons for submissions and comment removal were just added.
It is how the community keeps a mod honest.
n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-05-26
How do you keep the community honest?
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
You feel you need to police the community and the good users are incapable of doing so?
Wow what a dismal outlook you have formed due to this place.
The moderators being honest and present is what matters. Users will filter the content properly when the moderator is active with their community.
n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-05-26
If you truly believe that the users are all that is necessary, why not just get rid of mods altogether?
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
To help users with suggestions on how to create better content as we are responsible for the subverse.
I don't hold any moderator positions with the subverse as all of them I am owner and one I am co owner as the owner requested me to be one.
I helped with the CSS and fostering as well as growth of the community.
On Voat we have varied degrees of subverses.
Owner - usually the creator of the subverse and all permissions.
Moderator - can't add new moderators is the only restriction or terminate subverse.
CSS - only allowed to do css work.
Janitor - deleting of comments and submissions deemed as spam. (These are able to be removed with community input as well)
Approved submitter - exactly what is says as you are only allowed 10 submissions within each subverse unless this or higher level.
Now some sub's have "system" on their ownership. These are defaults and only janitors or css are allowed to be within these.
The responsibility of a moderator is to remove spam pretty much. I look at it as a way to encourage submitters and subscribers to get feedback or help to make more quality submissions.
As an owner of sub's I also look for people to hand them over too that are passionate about the topic at hand. I have handed over three subverse and grown a great many in my time as well.
We need moderators and owners to foster development with communities in Voat as if there wasn't such a thing there would be useless content.
If we get a rouge mod we have the logs to pin on them, and we do not hesitate to do so when its needed.
n/a wonderlandtrip 2017-05-26
OP acknowledges that shills exist and manipulate votes, yet were not allowed to call them out. I dont see why pointing out obvious shills is so heinous. If they arent, no harm no foul IMO. Shill is hardly an insult if you know it doesnt apply to you
n/a gravitas73 2017-05-26
I'm against vote hiding because it doesn't matter if it's hidden, the narrative still gets controlled by astroturfing.
I'd rather see the votes to know I or someone else is being brigaded. This makes them easier to identify.
Look, we all know they are here. Some of us know who they are. I've committed quite the list of names to memory myself.
Do people remember what it was like here before the election?
From my experience, it seemed of those that took a side and had anything to say, this place was id say 70% Bernie, 30% Trump before the Democratic Convention.
I was on team Bernie and it was pretty tame in here. The occasional socialist this, fascist that, referring to the candidate not the Redditor. We all got along fine.
Certainly no one responded to anyone with the smug "have you filed a police report?".
Maybe because we were united in agreeinment that Hillary is a piece of shit and her loyalists didn't ever come in here to defend her sorry ass.
That's all changed. It'd be one thing if they were only pushing the Trump Russia narrative, but it went well beyond that.
Before, there were non political conspiracies I didn't ascribe to, and I just didn't go in those threads. Even today in the Trump Russia narrative posts, I don't believe it because it's MSM propaganda and a convenient excuse for Hillary losing to Trump. But I still don't go in those threads. I know I don't belong there.
That's not the same for the shills who spend all day defending their queen and any conspiracy around her. They only appear in pizzagate or Seth Rich type threads or anything antithetical to the DNC. Many of them have accounts 90-100 days old... roughy the time Shareblue expanded its budget to $40 million from $5 million in the general election and $1 million in the primaries.
We saw /politics change overnight the week of the convention. And shockingly go back to normal Nov 9th. But then it went into overdrive and we knew it was only a matter of time before they came here.
There's a fine line between a shill raising a counter argument and just regurgitating talking points. These people do not at all look at new evidence with an open mind.
Example: Pandas4Progress is Seth Rich, this is well established now. Pandas4Bernie has a history of showing motive for Seth Rich being the leak. Anyone with a brain would concede that the likelihood they are the same person is pretty high given the similar names.
Just because we can't yet prove they are the same, doesn't make the likelihood any less or debunk it.
The absence of evidence proving one way or the other does not debunk anything but it doesn't stop them and their bot army from manipulating the discussion.
n/a ACCOUNT_AGE_BOT 2017-05-26
Processing... This will be replaced in a few minutes
n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-05-26
Seth's account was Panda4Progress, not Pandas4Progress. Pandas4Bernie just recently went active again I've heard, so it would make it very unlikely to be his account.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
Have you ever been banned from another subreddit?
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I think maybe automatically from somewhere for posting here, but it was a year or so ago and I don't really remember.
I'm not being glib, but why do you ask?
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
I think it gives a good perspective and interesting to know if the people doing the banning on a site have ever had the experience of being banned on that site. And from the direction I've seen Reddit going, I'd say banning and censoring of people and topics is going to be more of a problem going forward than shills pushing propaganda or criticizing the management of the site.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
That's a fair point. As it is I'm one of the more lenient mods when it comes to bans. I use it only as a last resort when users repeatedly or flagrantly break the rules and interrupt discussion.
I don't censor any topic here, but do enforce Rule 12. A title and a 6-word sentence is not an adequate post here. I leave up most PG stuff unless it has PI in it. The admins have been cracking down on it, and on a personal level, I don't support doxxing. My tolerance for Pi would be higher than the admins', but playing by their rules is the cost of doing business on their site for free.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
Yeah. I agree the mod that moderates least is usually the best. The overactive mods and admins are what have screwed up Reddit to the point it is from what it originally was. Just curious. You don't think the inherent voting system of this website is capable of handling the "Self posts that lack context or content" (Rule 12) matter or dynamic?
n/a flyinghighernow 2017-05-26
This occurs all the time in ways where words are not so blatant, but where implications are clear. Example:
"Interesting that you show up and ... blah blah blah."
Ironically, these carefully worded accusations of shill almost invariably come from those with a totally one-sided partisan history.
QUESTION: What happens if the person who receives such a comment then accuses the original accuser of being "the" shill? Does the one who responds get the ban while the one who started the line of accusations runs off free? Am I in danger of being banned if I respond: "Your history indicates nothing but [party] campaigning"?
Logical FALLACIES ARE VIOLATIONS of the rules of logic. People may want to familiarize themselves with those rules before skipping ahead to violations. Claims of "fallacy" are often misused to deflect from a related point that is not meant to fall within the rules of logic. Or sometimes, the word "fallacy" is incorrectly used to describe a fact itself.
Stepping back to the biggest picture -- the final resulting output of submissions and votes -- it is obvious which of the two parties (that would be Democrats and Republicans, who do not fit nicely on the "political spectrum") are gaming the sub. What to do about it? Probably not much we can do, but we should keep thinking about it. :(
n/a JamesColesPardon 2017-05-26
The votes themselves are a window into what this sub wants you to see. If I see a super shill comment blasting off here and gilded - I know something is up. It's bad enough they changed what the votes themselves portray, instead of absolute votes it's the absolute difference in votes - to muddy even what we are allowed to see here would be a step in the wrong direction.
My 2c at least.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
When I see someone pushing the mainstream official gov't story getting upvoted and given a Reddit gold button here, I get a little skeptical to say the least.
n/a 4-7-2-3-9-8-5BREATHE 2017-05-26
Totally bra' gold is a major give away some manipulation is going on.
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/64y534/us_taxpayers_gave_400_billion_dollars_to_cable
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5lcqfa/pizzagate_wiki_being_hacked_from_our_dyncorp_page
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4zi8lq/bush_cheney_asked_sen_tom_daschle_not_to
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/4ygnmv/cia_insider_speaks_out_it_is_the_functionof_the
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/47e9f3/more_us_troops_killed_by_halliburton_than_by
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/3ra3ez/z/cwnf57z
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/36m80e/how_reddit_was_destroyed_ver30
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
Yeah. I think they hand it out to make it gain in popularity as well. Free samples for advertising so to say. It could be used either way.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
The votes you say?
Well how would you know other than a percentage? You don't see actual vote counts so its actually impossible to tell what the community wants unless it is a deletion and your users call you on it before the mod log you have is over written.
You don't have a view counter within this platform either so you really can't have any data from your community other than comments which are scanned over I am sure as you have that massive list of ambiguous rules to which each mod interprets in a different way.
n/a JamesColesPardon 2017-05-26
I only see what I am allowed to see, same as you.
The veil is thicker than you think. It only appears thin until it is acknowledged.
n/a Neverenoughlego 2017-05-26
That is acceptance not determination.
You are a moderator of a conspiracy subverse and somehow you have just committed to that idea.
That is telling.
n/a Joe_Sapien 2017-05-26
Without being Moderators is there anything we can do to help out and keep r/conspiracy on a positive track?
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Thanks!
The best way to help is to browse the new queue, upvote content you think serves the purpose of truth and shining light on conspiracies, report comments that break the rules,and contribute your own posts and comments.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
Holding the moderators accountable and responsible for what is best for the community is one thing. Pushing for transparency as much as possible from a social media site like this as well. Also looking for viable alternatives in case this particular endeavor fails or is taken over like /r/politics and all the tactical changes they have made there to facilitate a top down power control structure instead of a bottom up one as Reddit was originally intended to be and has worked fine in that format before all these changes.
n/a TrumpRusConspiracy 2017-05-26
From what I remember though, politics sub was always like that
n/a quantumcipher 2017-05-26
I would say keep browsing (the new and controversial queues, foremost), voting, and sharing your own comments and content, to share your own knowledge and perspective with others constructively. I would also recommend that you not hesitate to report posts and comments intended to troll, mock or demoralize the sub and its users. That said, you and everyone here are always welcome in any of the subs I moderate as well.
n/a AfterSchoolPogrom 2017-05-26
All I'm saying is, if you want to fight criminal conspiracy, you gotta fight capitalism.
n/a DoesNotTalkMuch 2017-05-26
I very much doubt shills would want to drag people into a drawn out and pointless argument, trolls and ideologues do that out of desperation for validation.
Disinformation and politically useful truths won't spread by arguing with one person.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
It depends on the strategy of the particular shill. The regurgitating talking points style shill, probably not. The JTRIG disrupt, deny and divide style? I can see it, especially if they know they can bait a user into breaking a rule and getting banned. These shills do target individual users.
But most of the shill accusations I see are against users who go into extended conversations. I would agree with you that they're probably not actual shills, but more likely just trolls or people with strongly held beliefs. That's what makes shill accusations against these users even more lame, in the original sense of the word.
n/a DoesNotTalkMuch 2017-05-26
You really think the JTRIG anti-closed-knit-community-of-people-who-meet-in-person tactics are going to work in a completely anonymous forum with thousands of people reading every post at the same time?
Deep cover instigation, distruption, and provocateurs for places where people are putting a lot of effort to participate, like rallies and community meetings.
Would you pay for a shill like that? To come in here and argue with one of the countless thousands of passers-by?
I wouldn't. If I wanted a disrupt/deny/divide tactic, It would either be through the illusion of consensus with many passing comments, or with a deep cover operative on the mod team.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I think they do likely attempt to steer or at least monitor conversation here, but probably not to that great an extent.
n/a maulynvia 2017-05-26
well said
n/a d3rr 2017-05-26
Rule 10 is stupid. Why create a safe space for the easily offended? Rules 4 and 5 are enough.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
It's not about a safe space or protecting those easily offended; it's about keeping the discussion focused on the topic at hand and devolving into usually baseless ad hominems and name-calling. If your only counter-argument is calling someone a shill, do you really have an argument?
n/a d3rr 2017-05-26
That's all true, but isn't that steering the discussion with policy, which is not free speech? i dont get it, there is downvote.
n/a whacko_jacko 2017-05-26
I consider that a cheap copout, because shills do NOT use arguments, they use talking points. You are suggesting that we argue honestly against people who are arguing dishonestly. That is a recipe for wearing the community down until there is almost nothing but shills left.
We have a problem and we have a robust comment system in which to work it out organically. Let us use it. Any form of censorship will damage this community because the community is built on an inherent lack of trust.
These changes are a nightmare sugar-coated with well thought out reassurances. You are writing as if you understand what the community needs and then dropping the ball when it comes to rule 10. This change is the key to shills' success in many other subreddits. We don't even need to theorize. We can look at the example of /r/politics. This was the rule that precipitated total shill domination.
Rule 10 does nothing but demoralize honest users. We are forced to sit and watch the shills waste everyone's time or go somewhere else.
Please tell me I'm not the only one who sees this. How could shill accusations possibly derail conversation more than actual shills running unchecked spreading carefully formulated talking points?
I think that we should be allowed to call shills out if we are willing to honestly and carefully explain what is concerning about the behavior to the community in the process. Shills power rests on unaware readers, and they deserve a chance to hear opinions from the community about the discussion at hand.
n/a wonderlandtrip 2017-05-26
If theyre obvious shills, why shouldnt we call them out? With groups like CTR we know they exist, why is it such a big deal? This is the one sub where you should be allowed to identify them.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
The less top-down control over the design of this platform the better. Censorship is what has historically hurt sites like Reddit, not the inevitable shills. Shills can be downvoted by a user base accordingly. Censorship is something we are powerless to fight.
n/a d3rr 2017-05-26
Agreed, I'm keeping my ears open for a legit decentralized platform but haven't come across it yet. Haven't seen that movie yet, looks really good.
n/a effexxor 2017-05-26
Great write up. Its frank and honest and pretty refreshing.
I do have a question about posts about the same issue getting repeated like the Wasserman Schultz thing. Can the rules for what constitutes a duplicate post be reviewed? I feel like they're all the same basic post.
Thanks!
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
We've discussed this as a mod team, and the general consensus seems to be that we'll remove actual duplicate posts (the same link) if we can catch them before they get too many comments, but we're wary of removing posts that are just about the same topic. Other large subs do this or make megathreads, but I find it can limit good discussion about multiple angles on a story, which by the nature of this sub, there will be.
The downside of this is we often get many posts on the same topic hitting the frontpage, but we feel it's better than the alternative.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
If the users here vote up many posts on the same topic that means that topic is popular with the users here. That's how the original platform design of Reddit works.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I agree for the most part. It does leave us open to brigading, but it's a tradeoff I think we have to accept. Same exact link though? I remove those if I catch them early enough.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
I've always noticed the squashing of a topic on Reddit has been more of a problem than the brigading of a topic. Take the pizzagate censorship. the boston bombing censorship, and the SandersForPresident shut down.
I can't think of any examples of brigading that has really bothered me. I guess when /r/politics went full on Hillary Clinton support after the primary I knew something was up. I think ShareBlue or some similar organization was found responsible for that though. And that could be chalked up to the banning of alternative media sites and Bernie supporters as much as anything.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Not brigading per se, but a week or so back there was the same medium.com article on Seth Rich 5 times on our front page here. This is what I'm talking about regarding removing duplicates.
The issue is that anyone who wants to soft censor a given topic can flood the hot queue with posts about another topic. Not saying that was the case here, and I'm not even saying I think mods should do anything about it in cases where it's not the same article, but it's an issue. This is why I said in the OP that the new queue is often a better representation of the variety of views here.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
Yeah, the Seth Rich story was and is very popular here, and rightfully so, since the corporate run media scene seems so intent on ignoring it and it could blow up their forced narrative on Russia being responsible for Trump's popularity. I'd be more concerned when I see the same thing being pushed here that's being pushed on Fox, CNN, MSNBC, and The Washington Post/NYTimes.
I also find it interesting that /r/politics made the change to censor many alternative media sites and prevented people from altering the mainstream media titles in any way. So its basically just a posting board for the corporate media articles now as you can see.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I used the SR story as an example of duplicate posts. On a personal level, it looks very much like there could be something to it, but I don't think there's any strong confirmation yet. It should absolutely be a topic of discussion here, and I have no interest in censoring it at all.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
Who would you say are obvious or likely political assassinations in your opinion?
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
JFK, RFK, MLK, somewhat obviously more than the lone shooter theories.
More recently, Michael Hastings seems pretty likely to me, or at least suspicious. With Seth Rich, if I had to guess one way or another, I'd say he was assassinated, but I'm barely there.
n/a Orangutan 2017-05-26
Cool. Didn't mean to put you on the spot. Just wondering out of interest and in context to being a mod and your experience in studying conspiracies. I'm definitely in support of open investigation into the Seth Rich murder. I think Paul Wellstone was probably murdered. Mike Connell. JFK Jr. It's all sad stuff. Especially when you think about the potential of our society if we had these leaders and/or justice for what's been done. Luckily we have a place to discuss this stuff. Thanks for keeping it as open and free as possible! Long live the Bill of Rights.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Yeah, Wellstone and JFK Jr. I put in my more likely than not category. I don't think I'm familiar with Connell; there's another rabbit hole for me!
n/a favoritecattoy 2017-05-26
beady eyes
n/a Afrobean 2017-05-26
I read the title and I was already suspicious and ready to be mad.
Then I read the post and everything looks completely agreeable. I especially like the point about avoiding getting sucked into worthless arguments with shills. I personally also like blocking anyone that shows up in my inbox and is obviously trolling/lying/etc. I don't need that shit. I know some folks use add-ons for Reddit to tag these kinds of people too, but I'd rather just not ever see these losers' posts/comments at all.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I saw the notification I got a comment from you and was also suspicious. Glad we could agree on at least these points :) I feel like we've had some disagreements in the past, but I generally respect you and you're in the green on my RES.
That's very good advice for any user who finds themselves getting worked up about reddit comments. I'd probably do that if I didn't mod here.
n/a Afrobean 2017-05-26
My suspicions were nothing personal, I just am extremely wary of when people in authority positions tell people what to do.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Ah, cool. I have no desire to tell people what to do (further than following our listed rules), but did want to convey some of what I've found to work.
n/a Mr_Hagbard_Celine 2017-05-26
Ehem, Captain, this post makes WAY too much sense coming from the likes of you. I must admit, I've been a part of this community for about as long as you, lurking, and switching accounts. I've been a part of the toxicity at times as well and have been trying my best to change that, I see what you do for this sub and commend you for it. You have my thanks.
n/a poopyheadthrowaway 2017-05-26
Regarding upvotes/downvotes: Using this as an agree/disagree button goes against official Reddit policy. You are not supposed to upvote/downvote just because you agree or disagree. If you want to express your disagreement on an otherwise well-written comment, then refrain from downvoting and respond with your own follow-up comment.
When to downvote:
That's it. Those are the only reasons you should downvote.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
As far as I'm aware, the up/downvote policy is not an official Reddit rule, but part of the informal reddiquette guidelines. Specifically on downvotes, it says:
If you don't think a post is contributing to this community, you should downvote.
n/a poopyheadthrowaway 2017-05-26
Well, community discussion. And I typically interpret that to mean "trolling". Of course there are things like joke comment chains that could fall in this category.
n/a killerjavi98 2017-05-26
Great post that needed be here sooner.
n/a got-trunks 2017-05-26
Just post a picture of seth rich with a bunch of non-sequiturs along side it, that seems to be the new fad.
n/a jussayin_isall 2017-05-26
ITS NOT SPECULATION!!! ITS EVIDENCE
maga 2020...the vision is clear
n/a DeepStateOfMind 2017-05-26
That Aristotle quote is inaccurate.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
Damn, good catch. Um, I mean, this was clearly a test to see whether readers would check the accuracy and credibility of sources, and you passed! ;)
/u/JamesColesPardon - FYI
n/a JamesColesPardon 2017-05-26
Yep. It's been discussed in CST a few months ago and I think it leads credence to my theory on how the sub started in general (set up to fail to continually fracture our community).
We need to do a revamp of that place and clean out the cobwebs.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
For sure. Set up a modmail with what you're thinking.
n/a JamesColesPardon 2017-05-26
Bump the 10k one with a link to this thread. STK should be on tonight and his ass has to contribute.
Feel me?
n/a DeepStateOfMind 2017-05-26
Maybe we need to make a new one. Clean slate.
n/a Shadowandlight64 2017-05-26
Thank you. This should be stickied and remain stickied to the top of this subreddit.
n/a axolotl_peyotl 2017-05-26
and for the love of all that is holy please stop upvoting comments that ask "where's the conspiracy" in every damn thread.
It's the oldest, dumbest, and most transparent attempt at forum sliding in the history of this sub.
n/a TheMadBonger 2017-05-26
This is the most used shill tactic in my opinion. The question is a valid question of course, and there are definitely off topic posts in here. Plus skepticism is a trait we all must carry in the search for truth. But they will hide under this hat to do nothing more than start arguments and derail conversation on the original subject. Devolving in to a discussion of who's opinion is more right rather than speculating and entertaining the conspiracy and finding new viewpoints to either add credit or to discredit the theory.
Cannot upvote this enough.
n/a Beneficial1 2017-05-26
In other words, don't hang out here, you barely see the truth, what you see are bots and narrative being pushed all but a fraction of the time.
Oh, and any open discussion with the mods can be moderated by the mods, so walk the line.
Got it!
n/a whiskeyclouds 2017-05-26
See my latest post. I called out /u/CelineHagbard for this type of nonsense. Watch me get banned soon.
n/a Beneficial1 2017-05-26
Alot of the regulars are getting disenfranchised with this sub. Especially when mods tell us how to use it and what it's about and ban regulars. I'm pretty much bored with authority and separation. Ill pm you my sub
n/a hillarykillary 2017-05-26
If they implement any changes...they will lose users in droves...myself included...your sub might get hot...
n/a gigglynuts 2017-05-26
This sub was cool until last November or so, when the Russians made a move to take over, like they took over the Donald. They corrupted the mod team, and everything began to rot and reek. Stories posted straight up from rt and Sputnik.
It seems like we turned the corner from that, expelled the rot. But now the sub had been burned to the root, and we need to rebuild something. It won't come back the way it was before. But at least it will be honest.
n/a cuatro-20 2017-05-26
You're part of the problem
n/a gigglynuts 2017-05-26
Why am I part of the problem?
n/a Stig2212 2017-05-26
Can you pm me as well?
n/a Dieghoul 2017-05-26
It's the same mod that removed my post about Bush Sr and Teri Hatcher getting it on.
Seems fishy
n/a AssuredlyAThrowAway 2017-05-26
How did you get that interpretation from this post?
What CH was saying is that this space serves as an organically curated forum, wherein information is allowed to flow freely and users are engendered in the process of sorting truth from fiction.
If that does not embody that enlightenment ideal of "dare to reason", then I have no idea what does; as the mod team here literally stands firm in its commitment to never become an arbiter of truth, and for you to frame such thing as a negative is wholly disappointing.
If you cannot get anything from this subreddit as it currently functions, that is a reflection on the tools you bring to each thread you encounter, and by no means a reflection on the subreddit as a whole.
n/a pelijr 2017-05-26
Arbiter of truth in the sense that specific subjects get "misleading" tags on them, yet others that are basically just pictures with macro-text on them and no real conspiracy, just anti-dem, are left to, how did you put it, flow freely?
n/a Positive_pressure 2017-05-26
When shilling is obvious, it needs to be called out. There is a lot of grey area, but sometimes strong patterns emerge, and calling them out and discussing them is important.
We are all better of knowing shill tactics, and in turn it makes it more difficult for shills to spoil this and other subredits because avoiding patterns that will reveal them is extra work, and the more they have to do it, the less effective they are.
Shills are actually a lot better at monitoring /new queue than regular people because that makes it easier for them to control whether something gets to the front page (it requires less upvotes/downvotes when submission is new) and getting their comments in early makes it easier for them to have and keep top comments in submissions that do get upvoted to the top.
Just a few days ago I submitted a link and within 1st 40 minutes only 3 accounts commented in my submission. One was 4 days old, another one was 6 days old, and the 3rd one was 1 month old.
While it could be a coincidence in other places, in a place that is a constant target of astroturfing campaigns this is more likely to be shills than not.
n/a TrumpRusConspiracy 2017-05-26
Great post 👍
n/a Herculius 2017-05-26
This reads like it's out of a shill manual.
n/a whiskeyclouds 2017-05-26
It's a "staff memo" about how to behave on this sub. Just look into /u/CelineHagbard he's a mod and he's power tripping hard. Hence the post that he got stickied about rule following.
n/a quantumcipher 2017-05-26
Well said, and excellent work as usual, something everyone here should read and take into consideration.
n/a SuperFestigio 2017-05-26
:)
n/a RhythmicNoodle 2017-05-26
What about aiming for consensus??
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
The audience here is seemingly incapable, regardless of topic.
n/a RhythmicNoodle 2017-05-26
Sadly true. On facebook too. The country is divided.
n/a Lord_Mozes 2017-05-26
You are an asshat!
n/a Another-Chance 2017-05-26
Well, that is all obvious but what isn't is why the only time the mods flair a post for brigading is when it is negative towards trump. Seth stuff here has been an obvious brigade (the_donald has called for such off and on) and yet nothing happens with those threads.
Not saying they should be pulled/flaired but it seems inconsistent (And I am all for people investigating it but it appears they don't honestly want to do so and just want to plaster this place with meme like posts).
TL:DR - What is the decision process for deciding to flair a post here?
n/a PloughToe 2017-05-26
Is it a safe space? Scientific studies have shown that fetuses under the age of 25 should not have their safe space pierced. It would be nice to know that my safe space is protected here.
n/a Jac0b777 2017-05-26
Beautifully put :) This post should probably remain stickied forever.
n/a avohec 2017-05-26
Rule 10 exists as a means to protect actual shills by preventing people from exposing them.
Or has there been a case, any case, in human history, where someone sued over being called a shill, an won? Thought not.
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
No, but your point immediately loses credibility once that juvenile buzzword is issued.
n/a avohec 2017-05-26
So what is the non-juvenile buzzword to use, my pseudo intellectual friend?
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
The alternative is to simply flesh out a thought like a big boy. Generic shortcuts such as those cause your credibility to take a nosedive from the onset.
You cannot 'awaken the sheeple' with such things, try as you may.
But, people who employ those terms will just continue to scream free speech, all the while spinning their wheels, being oblivious as to why no one takes them seriously outside of these realms.
n/a avohec 2017-05-26
Nice try avoiding the question.
I am a man. That is a label. It is used by everyone to describe what I am, in that context. You can't say by labeling people who all fit the exact description of trying to disrupting political dissidence somehow makes them juvenile or wrong.
So you have no actual label for those types of people, but you don't like the label that millions of other people have formed and accepted as an appropriate description for such types. Gotcha.
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
You can call yourself Zeus for all I care, you still sound like a child spewing such buzzwords.
I can get my point across just fine, and more credibly, by eliminating the terms from my vocabulary. Not only that, I likely have a better understanding of what the terms I'm in avoidance of...actually mean.
n/a avohec 2017-05-26
And you still avoid the question. Good job.
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
Not even remotely. What I did is what many others refuse to do. I explained, rather than cheaply toss in just another generic coin-term.
n/a avohec 2017-05-26
And again, avoiding the question. You're good at deflecting, if you're talking to complete idiots.
n/a whiskeyclouds 2017-05-26
So now were getting fucking memos on how to use this sub from /u/CelineHagbard
Thanks for looking out for us, big brother.
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
Perhaps the consistent userbase is partially to blame for the state of things.
n/a bobthetitanic 2017-05-26
The user base consists of all reddit users, what's your point?
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
The standards are low here. Everyone seems to be swell with that.
n/a bobthetitanic 2017-05-26
Where do you think you are?
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
7th grade.
n/a Youareprobablydead 2017-05-26
Sticky posts are new here...geez i wonder why they use them now? Lol jk i know why...used to tell the users here how to act and think. Fuck this place, got so bad
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
This sticky post has been here almost as long as you have :)
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
Rekt
n/a hillarykillary 2017-05-26
#sethrich
n/a Iamamansass 2017-05-26
This is bunk. Ignore the shills? No way expose them. Put them out in the open so people see that behavior. You people just want to create this chaotic environment. You've done a shitty job modding and now are trying to put blame on the people who come here post, read, and follow the rules 99% of the time.
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
No one is preventing you from doing that.
The consistent community itself is to blame as much as anyone. Stop projecting your collective shortcomings upon these unidentifiable shadowy figures.
Unhelpful. Vague. Lazy.
n/a Iamamansass 2017-05-26
I have. I'm not projecting any shortcomings. The mods wait until it's too late to do anything. There's a very top notch group of posters that try hard to keep this place going.
Is it? Maybe it's about you then.
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
I would agree.
In agreement as well, though they waited too long as well.
Ever so slightly.
n/a deaditgate 2017-05-26
Really now?
Calling anonymous users shills isn't an attempt to destroy someones reputation.
n/a sock_lover 2017-05-26
I dont understand all the hate here, thank you for this insightful post.
People: you're gonna need to be discerning and sceptical in response to the information you encounter regardless of the source. Here you may encounter much information you would not encounter listening to NPR and reading the New York Times. That is all. I find that pretty valuable tbh.
n/a rodental 2017-05-26
Get rid of the shills, and get rid of rule 10.
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
No one has ever come up with these supposed solutions before. Way to go, your rusty broadsword rings like a dead tree.
n/a liberal_bastard 2017-05-26
real truth is locked away in a safe place , far from the public eye no sub is ever going to reveal "truth". you can only suggest to people to read about the things around them and be aware
n/a frolix8 2017-05-26
You are an ass hat.
n/a kayjaylayray 2017-05-26
Unsubscribe. This sub is a pit of bots and tools and shills. There is no discourse here. Just ignorant leeches.
n/a SmellyCat1776 2017-05-26
Not all of us. I promise you. In an attempt to bring light in the conversation , I promise you that not all of us are trying to be a shill or anything of the matter.
n/a ScottReynolds 2017-05-26
So, the foundation of your ideology is name calling? You know that the upper levels of a structure rely on the levels below them, right?
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
What are you talking about?
n/a _Ph03niX 2017-05-26
If that were the case the situation would be even worse. You cannot have nice things because you as a whole are irresponsible and juvenile.
n/a MAGAallday 2017-05-26
This should be perma stickies
n/a i__love__you 2017-05-26
Seems anybody who has a different opinion = shill
Not many open minded people around here...
n/a PlayStationVRShill 2017-05-26
What percentage of these folks even understand where that name comes from, and exactly what it signifies?
n/a XanderPrice 2017-05-26
Welcome to Reddit. No matter where you go if you bring up anything about President Trump rabid leftists are going to show up with their narratives from the media. This is how it goes every time.
"Hey guys there are some strange facts about this Seth Rich case."
"OMG it's a fucking conspiracy theory, CNN confirmed this. His family is grieving and wants you to stop talking about it right now!"
"What about Russia? There is zero evidence of any collusion but it's talked about every day."
"No evidence!?! Trump played golf with a Russian in 2004. A senior administration official anonymously told CNN that Trump ate in a Russian restaurant in 2011. How can you not see the obvious collusion? Impeach now!"
The left is completely owned by the establishment. You don't even have to pay them to push the establishment's narrative, they gladly do it for free.
Reddit happens to be the site with the most leftists so this is the way it is from here on out. For the next 8 years every where you go on this website people are going to be whining about what ever Trump did and calling for impeachment. Covfefe has been in the news all fucking day. These people are deranged and it shows bigly on reddit.
n/a CelineHagbard 2017-05-26
I agree for the most part. It does leave us open to brigading, but it's a tradeoff I think we have to accept. Same exact link though? I remove those if I catch them early enough.