The Bible is stories of Lucifer teaching his followers, mixed in with the True God teaching his. The test is, can you discern when the benevolent and malevolent beings are teaching?

Maybe you should use discernment and figure out which being the abrahamic one actually is.

Sounds like you are grinding and axe, against a deity you don't really believe exists.

Discernment is better used on practically anything other than what you mentioned.

Lmfao no

Satan is a metaphor for knowledge

if people are here claiming the bible is 100% factual, then they have an agenda. Anyone who is anyone on a conspiracy sub, questions everything and concludes nothing. Especially something that CANNOT be proven, like the bible.

The Bible gets a free pass because we are not into banning books. As a general defense of the Bible, it wasn't written for the purpose of fundamentalists to bash people over the head. The fact is they do that but that's hardly the Bible's fault, is it?

It's not productive to suggest that because someone is a Christian that they cannot use interpretation of prophecy to explain a conspiracy. I don't think they should be using it as a platform for evangelical work, but I'm not going to police them because frankly I've got better things to do. I don't mind if people want to talk about Nostradamus or Cacey or the Bible. I'm open minded and I think there are good grounds to reject hard skeptical positions that such things are impossible. Atheism doesn't inpress me, it's full of it's own contradictions and bad ideas so I don't think we should be bashing cult A only to promote cult B even if it's implicit.

Yeah you have a problem.

As an athiest you believe in evolution, correct? Let's look at Dawkins he's a biologist who coined the term meme - an idea that has the power to shape reality as in a gene. So he is introducing the idea that evolution shapes us in ways beyond biology. Yet religion is clearly a meme and the Bible is even more obviously so. Today we have this understanding of 'truth' as shining a light on ignorance and creating a path to 'good'. This arrived to us through Christianity and for atheism to deny these things is down right ignorant. It's like denying the influence Shakespeare had on the English language. Not to mention for Dawkins to call religion a mere superstition and nothing more violates his own concept of the meme. So yeah it's a metaphorical book burning to deny the role religion specifically the Bible has played. I'm not at all defending Christians, they certainly are due some push back for what is superstitious in their faith. It's very wrong and ignorant to label everything as superstition.

Science is not a way of life. That idea needs to be addressed as well. Science can't tell you how to live or what matters to people, or what is right and wrong. It's totally ambuguos on the business of being a human. So no, actually you can't merely root out your heritage and call it stupid. What you're really looking for is neo-marxism i.e. that everyhing that matters is made up: gender isn't real at all that's made up. Morality is exactly the same as practicality, except that's not actually how we developed it.

I'm not actually aiming this at you at all. You're basically right to reject Christianity as a personal faith, absolutely, it's terrible. But as western white people that's our fucking culture as well. We did some amazing things with christian philosophy. There are certain deeper ideas like the logos which are actually Greek, and other ideas which are really important. So I guess I'm kind of trying to make a case for balance in this.

I didn't decide one day to just start believing in God. I followed the breadcrumbs of some conspiriacies (p-gate and babylon deities) and spent months looking into the threads that linked up. I saw a whole lot of things that showed me this world is not what we believe. Humanity is not in control here. I absolutely freaked out because of this realisation.

I asked (begged) God to help me. And He did. He lifted the veil completely. And things have never been the same for me.

People may scoff, that is their free will to do so. But I know what I know. As for the Bible being 100% true, I don't know. But the more I look the more it seems to be.

any form of personal revelation with God I can't trust in informing my belief he does not exist.

I wouldn't expect my belief to do anything for anyone else. As i said, I only came to this position after months of searching for something else unrelated.

I think we all have to come to our own beliefs. That's why forced conversions or raising people in a belief-system rarely succeeds.

They might be forced by circumstance to remain a part of that religion but do they truly believe? There are many people who claim to be followers of a belief system and yet constantly act and behave in ways that contradict their claims.

Not really my place to question anyone's beliefs tbh. Actions speak louder than words.

Same. I'ver realized that discovery is the only way you can come to your truth. It's just that people would rather be taught/told what is true rather than discover and decide for themselves.

Scoffers gonna scoff. Welcome, brother. God bless.

It will be like the days of Noah when the second night coming of Christ comes. Noah built the ark for 120 years when no such concept of rain was there to everyone else. He remained truthfull, and for that him and 7(8?) Others were saved.

I'm scoffing.

You are dismissing how much a spiritual journey might develop a skepticism that led many to believe that the world is broken and evil men conspire.

Faith doesn't kill rational skepticism.

Some believe that keeping an open mind is only for the purpose of closing it around the truth.

A true skeptic cannot unequivocally dismiss the Bible as being God's word.

A true bible believer cannot be dismissed as never having been a true skeptic.

Am I supposed to keep being skeptical, or blindly drink your koolaid.
When you monopolize "facts" in an argument, you cease being a skeptic, and become a gospel unto yourself.

Would you deny this is the case?

Thus sayeth Terex80, who wishes you put your skepticism aside and believe the above statement as absolute.

Which is fine, just know that you have left the realm of skeptic, and moved to definitive.

So you've left skepticism, as far as the Bible is concerned?

It's not literal at all. It's dangerous to believe that.

The Bible starts veering off course right from the very first chapter. There were supposedly 3 days before god even created the sun and moon. That makes sense... He also created all vegetation, and trees with fruit before there was even a sun. If trees can suddenly sprout up in a frozen void with no sunlight, well that'd be a first.

It only continues to get worse, from the first chapter. A literalist must deliberately disengage their brain to force it to make sense. And even then, the best argument they can come up with is ad-hoc handwaving and mental gymnastics, trying to deny the obvious.

You presuppose that God is not omnipotent.

In other words, why can't God can't create trees and fruit before the sun?

He's God.

Behold, the gateway to mindless stupidity!

If your "god" is really that powerful, then there is zero excuse for the fucked up mess he created, and then blamed his own creation, for making his creation such a mess.

<If your "god" is really that powerful, then there is zero excuse for the fucked up mess he created, and then blamed his own creation>

There is a warped logic here. If God created people, and created them with free will -- in other words, to choose good or to choose evil, because he didn't want to create automatons -- then how is it his fault when people do things which he doesn't want them to do?

Humans have no one to blame for the mess this world is in but themselves.

Ahhh, I always love the "free will" argument.

God: "Love me now!"

Human: "No thanks."

God: "Then burn in hell for all eternity!!!"

Human: "What?! Why?!"

God: "Because I love you, and I want you to choose freely."

Human: "So I'm free to choose to burn in hell...?"

God: "Yup. I love you, and you're welcome."

Human: "OK... I... love you..."

God: "Great! Now go slaughter all those neighbors over there who don't love me."

Human: "....."

You've got some strange ideas about all of this.

I grew up with Bible believing, church-attending parents. I eventually grew away from it, because it seemed all the churches we went to had too much drama going on, but mainly because I couldn't see how a God that was so good could ask the Hebrews to exterminate entire cities of people, including the women and children. It seemed so cruel.

However, now I see it as God's way of trying to help mankind out. I see that I don't understand everything He does. How could I? He is God, all-knowing, and I am just a tiny human. Even if those cities were into something like beating their women and children, it could make sense that God would choose to exterminate that city, because the practice will only become more and more prolific as time goes on. Now imagine something infinitely worse, like child sacrifice, socially accepted rape, or other horrors. Makes sense to get rid of it. And honestly, if God can do anything and is merciful, perhaps he gives those children another chance in a family who won't subject them to such horrors. Either way, he isn't a petty and mean God, he's cleaning up our messes.

Or take Sodom and Gomorrah. I mean, is homosexuality really THAT bad to destroy a whole city? Well, we don't really know. Maybe the whole city in their promiscuity was contacting and spreading STDs and it was God's way of protecting the rest of the population from disease.

We just don't know. We are small with small brains. Sometimes my kid throws a fit because I do something to keep her safe. And for a short amount of time, she hates me and I'm a terrible person. She doesn't see that I just kept her from burning her hand off on the stove, or getting run over by a car, or getting sick from a bunch of candy. I think that is how we are to God, only to a much greater extent.

I grew up with Bible believing, church-attending parents. I eventually grew away from it, because it seemed all the churches we went to had too much drama going on, but mainly because I couldn't see how a God that was so good could ask the Hebrews to exterminate entire cities of people, including the women and children. It seemed so cruel.

However, now I see it as God's way of trying to help mankind out. I see that I don't understand everything He does. How could I? He is God, all-knowing, and I am just a tiny human. Even if those cities were into something like beating their women and children, it could make sense that God would choose to exterminate that city, because the practice will only become more and more prolific as time goes on. Now imagine something infinitely worse, like child sacrifice, socially accepted rape, or other horrors. Makes sense to get rid of it. And honestly, if God can do anything and is merciful, perhaps he gives those children another chance in a family who won't subject them to such horrors. Either way, he isn't a petty and mean God, he's cleaning up our messes.

Or take Sodom and Gomorrah. I mean, is homosexuality really THAT bad to destroy a whole city? Well, we don't really know. Maybe the whole city in their promiscuity was contacting and spreading STDs and it was God's way of protecting the rest of the population from disease.

We just don't know. We are small with small brains. Sometimes my kid throws a fit because I do something to keep her safe. And for a short amount of time, she hates me and I'm a terrible person. She doesn't see that I just kept her from burning her hand off on the stove, or getting run over by a car, or getting sick from a bunch of candy. I think that is how we are to God, only to a much greater extent.

I grew up with Bible believing, church-attending parents. I eventually grew away from it, because it seemed all the churches we went to had too much drama going on, but mainly because I couldn't see how a God that was so good could ask the Hebrews to exterminate entire cities of people, including the women and children. It seemed so cruel.

However, now I see it as God's way of trying to help mankind out. I see that I don't understand everything He does. How could I? He is God, all-knowing, and I am just a tiny human. Even if those cities were into something like beating their women and children, it could make sense that God would choose to exterminate that city, because the practice will only become more and more prolific as time goes on. Now imagine something infinitely worse, like child sacrifice, socially accepted rape, or other horrors. Makes sense to get rid of it. And honestly, if God can do anything and is merciful, perhaps he gives those children another chance in a family who won't subject them to such horrors. Either way, he isn't a petty and mean God, he's cleaning up our messes.

Or take Sodom and Gomorrah. I mean, is homosexuality really THAT bad to destroy a whole city? Well, we don't really know. Maybe the whole city in their promiscuity was contacting and spreading STDs and it was God's way of protecting the rest of the population from disease.

We just don't know. We are small with small brains. Sometimes my kid throws a fit because I do something to keep her safe. And for a short amount of time, she hates me and I'm a terrible person. She doesn't see that I just kept her from burning her hand off on the stove, or getting run over by a car, or getting sick from a bunch of candy. I think that is how we are to God, only to a much greater extent.

What makes you think it hasnt happened? Black Plague, AIDS, Fukishima...

Or your understanding of how God operates is immature. Just because something can be explained wouldnt mean that those arent the mechanisms that God uses.

or your understanding of how God works is immature. Just because your own father could provide every last thing your heart desires, wouldnt mean it would be beneficial for you or society if he did.

why would you suppose he isnt causing it?

I very much doubt he would.

Perhaps you have an immature understanding of what it is to be "good".

There isn't to say they happen with him

If you responded to my top level comment in your post you may be more satisfied with that response.

I didn't say satisfactory. I said more satisfied. and you're not participating in good faith. I can see very good reasons to kill 6 million people. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing. I don't think the Holocaust was a good thing, to be clear. But you say it's a bad thing and I can see situations where it would be the right thing to do.

I guess I don't really understand why you are asking all these questions about it. If you're convinced it isn't true, then chalk it up to people being crazy and move on. If you think there is some truth in it, then read the Bible yourself, and ask God for understanding. If you are truly convinced God is a big hoax, then why spend all this time trying to convince people who believe in Him to "think rationally"? If you truly believe that you were made by chance or evolution, then nothing you do or say really matters at all, and you can go ahead and move on and don't worry about what other people believe. But if you want to find out for yourself, do your own searching, because nothing anyone here says will convince you or me one way or another.

I believe the bible to be true.

Like what?

Jesus bday is not in the bible, and also does not say how old the earth is

God is timeless, 1 day could be thousands or millions of years. I don't believe in evolution, as far as different species turning into a completely different species.

Yes, I use to believe in evolution.

Once I became a Christian. I was agnostic all my life up until recently. I have my own personal proof of Gods existence. I don't have proof for evolution.

Ok, I was taught evolution in school. I use to believe it, now I dont, evolution is a theory taught as fact.

It's been awhile. Since it's not proven fact, I'm not going to believe it. I am only going believe what I can prove for myself.

I have my own personal proof of Gods existence, so I do have proof.

That's crazy yes I can. So I should not trust what happened to me? Instead I should have someone tell me what to believe?

I was a depressed for over 10 years I would speak negatively about myself, thoughts of sucide, and hated other people. I knew I was depressed and I tried my self to fix these issues myself but never could. Once I believe that Jesus was the son of God and he died for us I was healed. I went from depressed to being happy, and I feel like myself, how God meant for me to be. This happened in a matter of days and I was trying to fix myself for a long time and never could. Only after becoming a Christian I realized we can't do things on our own we need God.

I am also blessed with a physical experience with God. I asked God to make the rain stop and he did. There is no way I can deny that. This happened before I became a Christian, I was agnostic at the time, and just got done having a discussion about God with my friends who were believers. At the end of the convo I was like ok I think I get what you are saying. Later that night I went to my car to get something, I step outside and it starts to rain lightly. Once I get in my car it starts to pour down rain. I was in an open parking lot and you know how you can hear the rain beating down on your car. In that moment I asked God, if you are really exist make the rain stop, and before I could get the word stop out, it was silent for a second or two and then it started to rain again with the same intensity. Now I know this sounds hard to believe but it is true. This the reason I will never doubt the existence of God.

Present evidence of fossils that demonstrate evolution from one species to another. There are fossils of intra-species evolution but none that demonstrate, for example, a fish transitioning to amphibian etc.
Don't you think it's strange that with all that evolving, there would be more mid-transition fossils?

Your problem with the bible/God being like Santa Clause in the Sky is very accurate and I think many Christians would agree that the cartoon caricature that you take issue with is not real. Jesus refers to his teachings found in the New Testament to be "the milk" of wisdom. As in "breast milk" for babies. Its not "the meat" which is necessary for adult nourishment.

The way I see it, the meat is that humans must have a society. We are social creatures with limitations and needs. To satisfy these needs within the constraints of our own personal limitations, we need hunters and gatherers (i mean that in a literary sense, not necessarily actual hunters and gatherers) to do the work necessary to support a society that is large enough to protect against elements and enemies. A society needs shelter, which creates cities, which need protecting from those that have given themselves to base animalistic tendencies - rape, murder, theft - which would be the Babylonians and other gentiles. But those base animalistic tendencies are present in all of humanity. What separated the Jews from other nearby civilizations or religions was that other societies had celebrated these tendencies, which will often lead to the decay of a society or at a smaller level, in the time period, a family. Which is just a building block or microcosm of society.

For example, homosexuality in the times of Moses, in my view is a sin because if celebrated or embraced means that the homosexual would not have children to take care of them in their old age and would become a burden on society or other members of the family when an old man is unable to work in the field or build a home (for the record I dont believe homosexuality is any greater a sin than any other and literally everyone sins, I wont be casting any stones over what someone does in their bedroom). All the laws of the bible have practical and tangible benefits to them and the Jews either forgot that was a thing or realized how powerful manipulation could be to maintain power and control. Another example, no eating pigs. Pigs had parasites that couldnt be cooked off which didnt really matter anyway because they didnt have germ theory, and they didnt know what was causing people to get sick or go crazy because they didnt have the scientific method yet. They had other means of food so it was easier to just say "dont eat pigs" than to figure out the safest way to butcher a pig.

I think this was a fairly common understanding of the bible 200 years ago but when generations of fathers (traditionally the leaders of the Church) were destroyed one after another in WW1 then again in WW2 the practical applications and reasons for following these beliefs were lost because sons couldnt be taught by fathers what it really means to "love thy neighbor as thyself" - not drinking alcohol in front of an alcoholic, embezzling from schools, taking care of the environment and so on and so on. Look at how William Jennings Bryon was the populist preacher renowned the world over for his oration and liberal ideology raising awareness about the plight of the poor and the needs of the masses as means of stabilizing society despite also being the guy from the Scopes Monkey Trial. Christianity used to be different. And I think that difference and immaturity in how it is practiced as well as perceived goes back to fathers not teaching their sons for decades and decades.

To support that, I suggest that the reason the most persecuted people in human history are still around is because they knew the importance of family, staying close to one another and limiting outside influence. As one in the tribe prospers, the rest does too. When one becomes successful they extend opportunities to family. This is why Hollywood and Banking is run by jews. Not because they are evil. But because they know what it means to take care of family. This was a more common practice of protestants and Catholics in 1890. So Jesus meant it when he said to love thy neighbor and take care of the sick and poor because it strengthens your society and improves the living standards of those participating in that society.

So I disagree that it is literal, but that a literal interpretation allows for self corrections in the errors of interpretation that can lead to the bastardization of religion like what Jesus saw in the Temple. For me it comes down to a question that has nothing to do with spirituality - Is propaganda inherently evil? If Jesus propagandized the world with the "milk" so that they could see they need to be loving of one another for the benefit of all man kind... I suppose I could accept that propaganda.

The most persistent human cultures are the pygmy in Africa and the aborigine in Australia.

Those are the oldest but not necessarily the most persecuted.

Saying they're not necessarily the most persecuted seems either insensitive or ignorant.

No, theyre just isolated peoples for the vast majority of recorded history. People in this sub advocate for eradicating jews all the time. I dont see too many people trying to blame all the worlds problems on pygmies.

Have any examples of people in this sub advocating for the eradication of Jews?

That segue aside... my point was that civilized society is detrimental to human survival. I wouldn't even call domesticated citizens "humans." They're so far removed from God's kingdom.

It's not a free pass so much as it is what's the point.

People who accept the bible as 100 % are beyond reason, so what would be the point in engaging a discussion about the shortcomings of the Bible or any religion for that matter.

I hear ya. Problem is reason cannot overcoming the inherent fear of one's mortality or their fear of eternal damnation in the afterlife. Bottomline: simple minds are simple...

So true. Keep fighting the good fight

The Bible is the word of a god called Yahweh or Jehova, not of the Father mentioned in the New Testament.

What would you like to know about?

Am I supposed to keep being skeptical, or blindly drink your koolaid.
When you monopolize "facts" in an argument, you cease being a skeptic, and become a gospel unto yourself.

Would you deny this is the case?

So you've left skepticism, as far as the Bible is concerned?

Scoffers gonna scoff. Welcome, brother. God bless.

I'm scoffing.