unless you are pairing that ideal with a gun all you are doing is collecting stuff for the toughest guy on the block.

im just talking realistically. I know a lot of preppers and they forget a main key, them being a prepper makes them a target for those who are violent but do not prep.

best thing to do is thing of what will be the new economy if things were to collapse. bullets, Rx Drugs and cash crop seeds (including pot), they take up little space and will have tremendous trade value. Rx Drugs would include Penicillin, Opioid Pain Killers, Insulin, etc.

[removed]

anytime you go to the doctor i suggest you request some sort of anti-inflammatory and antibiotic, regardless of what you are there for. Do not however explain to them you are doing it as a prepper or they will sent you to the psych ward. I just fake whatever symptoms would get me the thing i need.

Spent the past few minutes arguing with a user and reporting his post for inciting violence, but this is spot on. Self defense is key

if you are going to have a stockpile, you better have a way to defend it. Typically the appearance of willful violence will back down about 999 of 1000 people. However, if a father has to stare in his starving child's face while you sit on a pile of food, better believe he could turn violent

collapse or not, someone will have a problem with a self sufficient community. If you prove the government isnt needed, they will have something to say.

Right. That's why we gotta get out of the 'states'

He's just talking about creating civilized and self-sufficient neighborhoods; thats all. You're dead meat regardless if society collapses in that manner

Yeah, I nominate you for selection in a micronation concept I'm entertaining. I know you don't like me on Reddit, but you might irl.

selection for?

I'll tag you over on the thread where the idea is vaguely explained...intentionally vague.

also, having a spat with you on here doesnt really mean i like or dislike you. We all have a common bond here.

It's hard to steal a tree.

its alot cheaper and more profitable to scare someone (with violence) into maintaining the tree/garden and then cutting you in on it. The protection racket will definitely be alive and well in a dying world

Grow spinach.. and smoke a pipe. Then you'll be the toughest guy on the block. Hug-ug-ug-ug-ug-ug.

You make it sound so easy.

How much space and effort does it take to develop your own food supply?

The biggest problem is pests honestly. People around in my city plant stuff have some for most of the year.

Why so contrarian?

It's in my blood.

so why would you expect to have an entire food supply?

Because you said to take control of my food supply.

The potatoes in a bucket is pretty neat, I was keeping 'The Martian' film in mind when I made my comment so the potato theme is strong here.

Downside being, is it doable for most people? If it were, why is world hunger even a thing?

Your 2nd video doesn't exist.

More people helping means less time per person,

More people helping means more mouths to feed.

If it's just a small operation like potato buckets, more isn't necessarily the merrier.

Time is the biggest issue IMO

Absolutely, that's at the core of the problem.

For most people, their efforts will ultimately end up with probably only a days supply. But the amount of time and effort it takes just isn't worth it for most.

If you live in an apartment, good luck lol.

In regards to your 2nd vid, i'm wondering what the time+monetary cost of creating and maintaining that is, versus just buying your stuff.

I agree. 10/10. And to reiterate your most salient statement, the community aspect has its own rewards.

I haven't done it but the idea is plant annuals that involve little to no maintenance and utilize different spaces. It ends up looking like an unkempt mess but each garden layer offers something different. It doesn't look like your typical garden.

http://secretgardenofsurvival.com/

plant annuals that involve little to no maintenance

Perennials, not annuals. Annuals you have to plant every year (tomatoes, corn). Perennials are plant once, harvest for years to come (raspberries, asparagus).

you are right - that is exactly what I meant. thanks for correcting!

Keep in mind that annuals make seeds, so some of those (the ones adapted to your climate) will come up again year after year without any effort on your part. Not the same plant of course, like a perennial, but rather the offspring of last year's plants.

For this to happen you have to let some of your plants go to seed. Don't immediately pull up a plant when it stops producing for you, but allow it to grow through it's entire life cycle and reach maturity, then let nature do the work of seed dispersal. It's not tidy. You end up with plants sprouting randomly all over, but it's easy. Think lettuce, spinach, beets, kale, Swiss chard, radishes, carrots, kohlrabi, broccoli, cabbage...and of course it depends where in the world you are.

This is true for your warmer zones. I take full advantage of as many re-seeding annuals as I can. I have a fantastic variety of arugula that's running over a decade re-seeding itself. It's actually a biennial, but it just keeps on keeping on.

Most of the seeds you mention won't survive the winter in my area. This is exactly the type of knowledge that I was talking about needing to have success gardening. Best to find someone local to help you learn what varieties are best suited for your specific location.

Yep, it's pretty neat to see plants coming back year after year. I wanted to add that when seeds are dormant (their tough seed coats are intact and they haven't begun to sprout) they can and do tolerate freezing. Where I live we get down to around -15°F pretty much every winter and -30°F at least once per decade yet the plants I mentioned above keep coming back.

The real limiting factor is how long your growing season is (your warm season). Most of the vegetables that reseed for me are actually cool-season crops and reach maturity relatively quickly without needing summer heat. They'd work for people in a good portion of Canada and similar places, as well as pretty much anywhere in the continental US.

That's how the Iroquois did it. Plant a bunch of corn, then plant beans and squash so they grow up underneath it.

It's not just space and effort, it's also the knowledge of what to grow, when to grow it, how much of it to grow, and how to use or preserve it.

Gardening is a lovely hobby. It represents a hopeful mindset. Gets you outside, in touch with the earth...you might get some food for your efforts, maybe enough to share!

Gardening for subsistence isn't really a hobby. It's work. It requires stamina, strength, time, energy, and knowledge. Worth it, ultimately, but it isn't like you can walk out your door, throw some seeds onto the ground, and never see the inside of the grocery store again.

I knew what you meant, and I advocate that the far reaching effects of gardening and community, are precisely what's necessary for humanity today. It's the spark of conversation ignited whilst experiencing an important task in self sufficiency which has resonating effects of enlightenment.

Worth it, ultimately

Do you mean in the self satisfaction sense? Or the literal results?

Because I reckon it's cheaper in both monetary and time to just buy a sack of potatoes, than the effort required to grow it.

Mostly satisfaction, but man if fresh vegetables and fruits aren't 10x better than store bought (they have to pick them before they're ripe to preserve them during shipping and at the store).

Worth it because of nutrient density. Food moments out of the ground or off the vine tastes better and is better for you than what you can buy in a store.

Monetarily, it really depends on how you value your time.

"You make it sound so easy" hey that's what happens when people are armchair gardening and bouncing ideas around in their heads , I actually have a garden for vegetables and a green house for my ganja and both are hard work it's almost like a part time job on top of my real job. At this point the vegetables are for the fuck of it and the ganja is do or die as I need to grow a several lbs to last the entire year without fear of running out , I'm not paying money for,something I can do on my own but it cost money to get it going , yeah so simple

There are lots of articles, like this one...https://www.thespruce.com/how-many-vegetables-per-person-in-garden-1403355

Look on Pinterest under homesteading or gardening. I've also found a lot of info on chickens. Can't have them in the city here, but hoping to when we move.

Here's some info... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/23/homesteading_n_934323.html

Not as easy in a Metro city. Rules and regulations? Yup, you rent. No garden unless you want to foot the cost of an enclosed fence, after first paying for zoning and that's even if the city doesn't view the garden as an eye sore.

dont forget to plant weed too cuz its awesome

Look up some community gardens. Most cities have them now.

Do you have any patio space? I have RA, so I've been adding more raised beds, but also wine barrel halves and pots. You can grow quite a bit in them in a limited amount of space.

Growing indoors is really easy. Get a small grow tent or closet, LED lights, good soil and you're set.

Some of the new LED grow lights are so efficient they produce no heat, they don't need heatsinks or fans. Really great for indoors since you won't have to worry about heat or noise.

I love and support the idea of people growing their own food. I wish I was better at gardening, though. I really don't have the motivation to learn though. I do have land though. There outta be a system where they can pair up people who want to grow food with people who have land that's just sitting. I'd totally let people work my land for a cut of the crops.

This is an excellent way to learn about self sufficiency. Having had volunteers work on my small farm, they had the opportunity to learn many different aspects, whether pulling weeds, saving seeds, splitting firewood, milking goats, making cheese, harvesting produce/honey, slaughtering/butchering meats, etc. etc.

Wwoofing is an amazing resource and can also give you a chance to travel.

I have the motivation to learn and it's still freaking hard. They die/wit for seemingly no reason. The climate where I live may just not be suitable for growing vegetables.

Could be a problem with your soil, as well.

I live in apartment so I had to buy soil

Probably not a problem with your soil, then.

Actually, there still could be. Store bought soil is usually pretty sterile. It's microbial life and mycelium that really helps plants to thrive.

This. If you don't have bacteria in your soil, you're fucked. Some parts of my farm are like that, but are getting better after 200 some years..

Also, there are other considerations. My soil is very clay and compact. Plants need a loosened medium to grow well, so adding compost is more necessary than people think. Working the soil is also pretty important, but tilling is not necessary. It's now kind of old-school. It's more about promoting worm activity and mycelium. Many times people also get frustrated when they work their soil and a million weed seeds germinate. It is a problem, but working through that first year is kind of tough. Using black plastic or cardboard to smother weeds around your garden, mowing before weed seeds set anywhere nearby is also important. Using a small forked tool to remove weeds by just scratching the surface on a sunny day will kill them near where you've planted also. Weeds steal nutrients from the plants you are trying to grow, so they have to be limited whenever possible.

Buy compost not potting soil.

And make a composter. Get a large garbage bin with a racoon proof lid. Drill inch sized holes in it all over to allow air in. Dump your crap in it. To mix it, put it inside another bin, roll it on the ground back and forth. Or mix how you want. Great way to keep your soil.

Talk to some local nurseries or extensions through the colleges. Sometimes you have to buy the right seeds/plants for your climate, depending on which zone you live in. I live where it's really hot in the summer. Long growing season, but you have to have more heat tolerant kinds of produce, or grow some things in the winter months. Where we're moving, we'll need a greenhouse because the season is shorter and cooler. Do you know what zone you're in?

I don't, I don't even know what zone means, but I'm in Lousiana. Peppers seem to be the only things that really grow well. Everything else just dies.

Zones probably references to growth zones. For example : Sweden is devided in to several zones depending on what climate it provides

This will help: http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

be patient. you just have to understand that plant wants certain things to thrive just like any "body". learn what likes the place you live. Control pests with a few natural remedies (neem, garlic, peppermint, dish soap). you'll get there with a little determination.

Dish soap was the craziest thing I've learned about thus far. I had a (very bad) aphid outbreak, leaves just covered, so I took one into the store to ask the people there what to do. Some random lady, not an employee, ask to see and said to use a mixture of dish soap and white distilled vinegar. I was very skeptical but what did I have to kose? One treatment later and my problem was solved. I was floored.

Yep, you usually just want to spray (gently) aphids off of your plants, knocking them down whenever you notice an outbreak. When it gets pretty bad, then you break out the dish soap method. Please note that it's best to use a gentle dish soap like Ivory, not one that says it's got antibacterial stuff in it. One small squirt in a gallon is all you need. Apply mostly to the bottom of leaves, but also all over. It's best to do this on cloudy days, or about a couple hours before the sun goes down, with enough time for the plants to dry before nightfall. Early AM is also good. Doing it in the height of the day can be damaging to the plants.

Yes,basically the soap coats and suffocates the insects. It's cheap, safe and amazingly effective. Makes you wonder why our food supply is assaulted with so many toxic pesticides.

That could be a lot of factors, but you can grow food in just about any climate.

Look into bucket gardening, it works well for balcony's and decks. Make sure you're getting the right plants for your zone, and planting them at the right time. Some do better than others with less sun and colder temps. /r/gardening can help you out too.

If you have land its so easy, build some raised beds and plant shit.

Maybe you can advertise or put up a flier. I'd bet you'd get some takers! I've found some cool articles about urban gardening. I got inspired by a family in Los Angeles. http://inhabitat.com/this-family-produces-6000-pounds-of-food-per-year-on-4000-square-feet-of-land/

Where are you located? I'd be down for that arrangement. I love to garden.

Can you PM me?

Have a black thumb? Don't worry. Trust me everyone can grow food!

Plant some fruit and nut trees. So easy! Plus you'll attract deer, squirrels, and all kinds of other wild meat.

Dig a pond. Stock it with fish and edible aquatic plants (cat tails, etc). Bam! Self sustaining meat and veg. Plus ducks and geese if you're lucky.

And, hey. No over is going to complain about your "garden" of trees and water features.

If you're in Central Florida, I'll do it! :D I'm obsessed with gardening but don't have a ton of land.

Are you referring to slavery? Lol jk.. but seriously I'd say just take the time and learn, it sounds like a massive chore but it's almost therapeutic after you get a hang of it. There's nothing more satisfying than eating your own home grown food, it gives you an odd sense of wholeness knowing you took (minor) responsibility over your own life.

ending 3 consecutive sentences with "though"

i don't even though

On an unrelated note, in my experience most of the people promoting things like 'grow your own food' don't actually do it themselves. It is like people feel virtuous telling others what to do, but don't believe in it enough to do it themselves. And then there are the fake dinosaurs.

Lets go back to serfdom you say? In all seriousness though look up some local church groups and shit like that. There are lots of people out there that would love to be able to plant some gardens but don't have land (although I would guess it depends on what part of the country you live in)

1. Get decent dirt

2. mix decent dirt with your dirt(unless clay, just replace it)

3. plant seed according to instruction on package

4. water based on instructions

5. wait months

6. eat

gardening isn't that hard unless you're going for quality results, otherwise half-assing it does well enough.

Try to find a Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) group near you. That is the model exactly.

There's a guy who goes by the name of "urban farmer curtis stone" on youtube who makes a very good living farming other people's land in a suburban setting.

his vids are great

shit, I'd come work if I could have a place to crash. would get a dayjob for loot too.

Shout it!

I would say this. Remain distant and mobile for the first 90 days. All hospitals should be avoided because they will be commissioned as alternative bases during a crisis. They are always the tallest building in the area, have beds, food and generators and they have the ability to communicate on military channels. In the first 90 days most of the looting will occur and therefore the violence will begin to subside.

For those that don't know you can buy seed to produce food with food stamps. I know not everyone has the money to grow a garden and if on government assistance you can reduce the costs.

Get on food stamps and then start a garden. Brilliant!

That'll really stick it to the corporations!

Ha! I love it!

And the taxpayers!

That's what the government should be for, helping catch people who've fallen. Programs like food stamps shouldn't be shamed as a waste of taxpayer funds. Our citizens should be fed.

It's not like we can't afford to feed our own people. We spend a trillion a year on surveillance, crony defense contractors and 7 simultaneous wars.

Who's responsible for those decisions?

Lets blame the last president of a serie of actions and desitions taken by every one of them

Gotem!

My point was it wasn't the tax payers... "we"

Sorry then. For all the persons that do that(blame a president that does not have the full responsability) I chose you to make my point when you were just talking about something else. Mistacos were make.

I dont know, it was like that when I got here.

No it isn't You're an imbecile. The government is there to defend the local population against outside attack and to protect rights and freedoms so that the local population can thrive.

Not to bail out people or banks or make profits.

Jesus.

Love how corrupt the minds are in this sub. Free-thinkers my ass

You've called me corrupt and an imbecile. Nothing can be discussed with that kind of discourse.

What can be expected from a racist, though? Good day.

Oh, the liberal pulled out the racist card. End of discussion. Hypocrite

Only because your the mod of a clearly racist subreddit. It's not a mindless insult, you're basically a professional racist. You don't get to call other cultures "cancer" and then not also be called a racist.

If the truth is racist then I guess that's what I am. A seeker of truth.

Racist rebranding.

herp a derp a diddly dum da derp

The truth isn't warm & fuzzy.

There are reasons to feed the poor other than just for "the warm fuzzies."

Starvation will drive people crazy. Worry that their children are not getting fed enough more so. Desperate people do desperate things. They will rob, steal, and maybe murder to escape being caught.

Some times people really do just have a string of bad luck. If you grow up poor, you can work hard and work your way up. But what happens when you get laid off? Factories in your town just start shutting down. People get these benefits to hold them over until they can get back on their feet. They get back on their feet, off the benefits, and contributing to society and paying taxes.

(There are always cases of people abusing the system, when you're talking about systems that span an entire continent. They are the exception to the norm, and it just isn't cost efficient to make a abuse-proof system; you end up spending far more on fraud prevention then it saves you.)

I grew up in a shit poor family. I didn't choose to. If it weren't for government benefits, I would have been malnourished, and I would have suffered from permanent mental and physical ailments because of it. (Malnutrition in children fucks them up for life.)

Instead I got the help. Now I make 73,000 / year in salary, and about a third of that is paid back to the country that helped me, in the form of taxes. I was a damn fine investment.

I am much more common then you realize. You don't hear about people like me, because who the hell walks around telling people about how they needed food stamps to live. You DO hear about "welfare queens" who make bank from the welfare office because that story enrages people, and people just eat that shit up.

(The politician who first sold the idea of "welfare queens" later admitted that the concept was a complete fabrication.)

There's string of bad luck and making everyone else pay for the poor choices of other groups. It's called redistribution of wealth.

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That post you linked to was not impressive. It was rambling and raving, and switched from topic to topic without offering any real rationale behind what is implied to be bad.

Let's try this a different way: So what is your solution then? Remove all the social support programs? Let's play this out, step by step, to see what happens.

You start: what programs do you think should be cut?

Better than anything you've written.

The amount of money the average family receives on welfare is often over 25000 dollars annually. Negative returns are quite the opposite of a "damn fine investment".

You should read up on how government spending really affects the economy. You have some strong misconceptions about how the economy works.

All this money that is spent on welfare programs... where do you think they go? Do you think poor people receive that money, and just pile it up and set it on fire?

Or do they go and spend that money in their community, thus generating revenue for businesses, profits for the owners, and wages for those businesses employees?

Money spent on welfare programs directly injects wealth into communities, spurring economic growth where otherwise there may little to none. And growth is good for everyone.

You should read a few books on economics. You could start here - it'll provide some very valuable insights.

I appreciate your civil tone, but I will pass on reading a book by a democrat politician about economics. Maybe you should read anything by Murray Rothbard.

He has a PhD in economics and is a professor in the subject. He could hardly be called a politician, he ran once and lost.

Watch him speak and read an article or two. You will either get where he's coming from or not. Then invest the time and energy reading a whole book if you still want to because it's not that interesting.

The government is not here for you, open your eyes, YOU are the imbecile here sir.

Ya I know that. That's what I just said. It's here for everyone. Do you even comprehend what anyone else writes or even what you write? Or are you blinded by EBT?

Lol blinded by EBT... Whatever dude. Your non-sympathy for those less priveledged than you is noted. The original comment implied the government should be there to catch those that need the help, you called him an imbicile, then made almost the same point, though not very clearly.

I have no reason to feel sympathy for groups that dominate crime and then blame everyone else for it.

Haha. Done with this. You have a nice day sir.

Yeah let's not worry about the trillions of dollars going to Defence, corporate tax breaks & Aid to countries that rule by violence.

But yeah, lets shit on the lowest income earners s & unemployed. That's a fair deal.

Let's not worry about the welfare state they created and you have been fooled into supporting. Welfare for everyone. Especially the corporations. Justified by the welfare for minorities.

I'm glad you agree

You can also buy seedlings, as long as the seedlings are food-producing plants.

You lose a lot of your savings buying seedlings.

It's still cheaper to buy and use a whole pack of seeds than buying seedlings. Unless its a gift (it's an awesome gift)

I also recommend letting at least one of your plants go to seeds so you have a supply for the next crop.

Have 2 different patches so you can rotate and mulch one while the other is growing food. This is very important. Soil prep is everything.

Try to grow things that cost you the most at the shop.

Stagger your planting times so that it doesn't all come up at the same time. This covers you so there's less wastage.

All true. You know that, and I know that.

From the content of your reply, it's obvious that you have years of gardening under your belt, as do I.

But, for the beginning gardener, seedlings make sense -at least certain seedlings. Yes, seeds are cheaper, and things like curcubits should always be direct seeded in the ground.

But, take tomatoes, for example. Germinating the seeds, buying the pots and good soil (i.e. Fox Farms), and then repeatedly potting the seedlings up until they are ready for transplant into the ground - all of that may be more than a beginning gardener wants to (or can) take on successfully.

Good points.

It's nice to see a fellow veggie gardener!

My only rules are that if you can't eat it, it doesn't belong in the garden!

Not true! There are some flowers (like alyssum) that are not edible, but are fantastic for attracting pollinators. But, my favorite flowers are the kind you can eat - like nasturtium. Mmmmm. Your username made me chipuckle, btw. :)

I use wild garlic (flowers all year round) to pollinate ;)

They don't have a bulb, but the flowers and leaves are edible.

Well, I just learned something new. I would have thought wild garlic would repel flying insects. Do they attract butterflies?

I'm not sure about butterflies, but I do have a lot of lady-beetles & bees.

Are you in the continental US?

Unfortunately, no. Australia.

That's a shame. :(

Yes it is. I have a ton of wild garlic to swap/give someone. :/

One last quick question. I know Australia is a big place, but by chance did you ever see Bill Mollison speak before he died?

No but I've read some of his stuff and use his methods. My grandfather mirrored a lot of his techniques.

I've found small veg plants that are pretty much starting for only a few bucks a piece. Expedites the process a little bit.

Inb4 "or you could just go to the super market and really expedite the process"

also food stamps are accepted at farmers markets and stuff and they sell seedlings and such there to get a jump on growing food.

You can also regrow veggies from root ends. I have a whole thriving patch of scallions and celery, and all I did was stick the root ends in the dirt and leave them there.

Since the government is essentially sponsored by Monsanto and other corps they will prob give you "special" seeds which defeats the whole purpose

Or we can just steal the seed from flanders yard, and while we are at it we should steal his chickens to, that will teach him.

The best seeds I have were free; and I've shared mine with many people who didn't have any to trade. /r/seedswap is a great place to start.

Soil and pest control are the more costly parts of gardening.

Isn't it true if you do try to grow enough food to be self sufficient there are a lot of government/regulatory roadblocks & red tape? Read a post on here recently outlining many of the hurdles one faces when trying to do so, something along the lines of difficulty procuring non-GMO seeds, depending on the scale you're trying to grow food Dept. Agriculture/EPA heavy regulation and intentional difficulty to farmers/ people trying to start out growing clean food for self sufficiency.

So many people in this sub complain about things like this- and rightly so, but they're mostly leftists who consistently vote for bigger government. It makes no fucking sense. This is bigger government, people.

I apologize, I'm not sure what you're referring to. Are you talking about the regulations/red tape one has to go through if attempting to grow food on a scale big enough to support a large family but not fall under the commercial category of growers? We certainly see eye to eye on your last statement. Seems a lot of people forget many of the quotes our founding fathers gave us and if more people knew their history, we might not have as many problems as a country as we do today. Like my grandfather, I'm a huge history buff. I'm barely in my mid 20's but today it's rare for me to meet someone of similar age who likes history, at least IRL.

Yeah, that's basically what I'm talking about. More red tape, bureaucracy, regulations, less freedom, liberty and independence in general in all areas of life. People on this sub constantly complain about government and control and what not- as they should. But then they constantly vote for more of it. It's like they want all of the nice social programs because they don't have the self-esteem to rely on themselves but they don't want to pay the price of loss of freedom and overreaching government control and tyranny that necessarily accompanies that.

I agree, and find the hypocrisy humorous at time. Just like all the "antifa" protesters who riot & loot just to prevent a right-leaning speaker from speaking at an event. They're supposedly anti fascist but the actions they take & candidates they support are actually more fascist. And they complain about big government but still want all the handouts/free programs bigger government offers. Hard to fight the power when you're leeching/depending on it.

Not that I know of. At least not here in arkansas. Our Plant Board/EPA does nothing with that. They mainly focus on regulation to protect farmers from seed fraud and people using chemicals all willy nilly. Even if growing a garden and a nearby farmer sprays and kills it you can file and they'll be fined and you may even be reimbursed.

I'm in rural Arkansas and most people have their own gardens that provide them with veges most of the year and never have I heard of any agency actively trying to stop that. I also work at a local company that sells seed to farmers. However we dont sell seed for gardening. To get non-gmo seed is as easy as calling and saying hey I want conventional this type of seed. There are no regulations that prevent this. We mainly sell soybeans, rice, corn, and wheat. 90% rice we sell are non-gmo. In fact in order to sell rice in arkansas you have to have a lot trail showing its been gmo tested. The only gmo rice that can be planted is clearfield and most dont buy it as its $40-50 a bu instead of $10-12 like the conventional rice. Wheat is all non-gmo and last I knew no gmo wheat is approved in arkansas. Soybeans are different as you cant make money growing conventional beans unless you have a specific conventional bean contract.

It's not all about the self serving the self. We need community work because we are more powerful when we work in teams.

Yup. The power one holds depends on how many active cooperative members are on the team. The formula is N(squared).

Power chart below depending on how many people are involved.

Person - Power level

1 person = 1 level of power

2= 4

3 = 9

4 = 16

10 = 10,000

This is one of the reasons they keep us apart from each other.

10 squared is 100 not 10,000

Shit I meant 100.

I love this! Do you mind if I ask where did you get this?

The Urantia Book.

Amen u/LightBringerFlex I think you will fit in nicely on our gilligans island micronation.Noted.

need a good security guy? lol

Of course.

Agreed!

There is enough people on my block to plant a thousand different vegetables and maintain them. Each city block could have a place for this. It's weird we don't do such things in america, we are way too reliant on corporations, by design. If we are going to take the power back we need to head in this direction of becoming self sufficient.

True. Front lawns and backyards are good for veggies.

Advice from a seasoned agorist: Squash will never form the basis of a sharing economy. In fact, offering free zucchini is a totally passive aggressive move. Leaving it on your neighbor's porch is straight up aggression. Know whether you're in a state with the castle doctrine before attempting.

Love me some homegrown fruit!

Seriously though, I grow enough food to share every year. I put up a little "free surplus veggies" stand out by the road for neighbors to take advantage of. I advertise it on local social media groups - hey come get some homegrown free veggies! Mostly tomatoes and cukes, but sometimes flowers, asparagus, arugula, squash, chiles, beans... It mostly goes to waste (well, to the chickens so not totally wasted). Not for lack of traffic, either. People just don't cook at home very much where I live. It's a fairly affluent "bedroom community" where everyone leaves at 7:30 am and returns at 6:00 pm to live their two or three hours of "free time" before bed and doing it again tomorrow.

Maybe I need to find a place to move to that has a more agorist community already in place.

Have you heard about the Venus Ptoject?

Only in passing, I don't know much about it. Isn't that based in Florida?

We grew tomatoes and green beans for like two years and as great as it was, you get overwhelmed with them quick. Soon, it becomes tough to even give them away. Getting a couple free tomatoes is nice, but 12 free tomatoes a week? Christ!

It's def something everyone should try and I love the idea of giving them away to neighbors via a free stand.

peaches? That's some long term commitment for a home garden.

Hahaha! I know what you mean. That's why I learned to can it. In tomato sauce! It's good and you can eat it all winter!

Around here, people put boxes for free by the roadside with their excess squash-related items.

I've been tempted to stop by and add to their boxes.

I put a wall of Blueberries, Tomatoes, Raspberries, and Blackberries in my front lawn. Whether or not I eat them, they will be available to the community, the wildlife, and provide privacy, as well as decor. Cost me $100 at the farmers market.

I think in addition to supporting the local farmers, it's good plant food for the wildlife as well. Bees, Birds, Possums, etc.

I don't know if trump wanted his wall built of berries but it's a nice touch

Amazing idea. They grow like weeds in the PNW.

hahaha why not? delicious idea.

Oh wow, this would be so great

Most definitely! I'm hoping to keep some bees when we move, too. They have a great new hive idea...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbMV9qYIXqM You don't have to disturb them. Just leave enough for them to survive, too.

This ideology is way too far gone to continue to be useful in this age. The introduction of large scale farm equipment has made the idea of home gardening for the purpose of anything other than a hobby useless. It is far better (financially) to obtain your food from the store, and work to have the cash to do that.

As far as the SHTF scenario... You better just stock up on canned food, non-perishables, and have some way to collect water. Gardening won't sustain your family for very long, and in the SHTF scenario you won't want to venture outside your home to try and "trade" with your neighbors...

I appreciate the sentiment, but the "keep the money out of corporate hands" ideology doesn't work at this point.

Respectfully disagree.

It cost me 400$ to build two 4"x 8" raised garden beds, they should provide me ~2000$ of veggies this year alone. They will also be good for the next 20 years.

The nutrition quality is far superior , and no pesticides are used.

Gardening/Canning can and will sustain you throughout the winter, don't you know how people survived before 1970 and the great Mcdonalds rise?

You're absolutely right. We have a little backyard garden, but we re eating better than we ever have. I started canning, too. But we can't wait for spring to start over. It's fun! It's pretty to look at, too. Buying organic is too expensive. I save seeds from year to year, too. Also learning how to keep food without refrigeration, just in case. Even the knowledge will be valuable. For instance, you can keep eggs, unrefrigerated, for up to a year by rubbing them with mineral oil. It keeps the air out. Lots of good homesteading info on Pinterest.

I respectfully disagree. I can more or less meet all of my needs for vegetables from my gardens and the foraging I do on our property. I don't do that entirely because I still enjoy many things I can't grow here, like avocadoes, lemons, bananas, pineapple and the like.

Last year I harvested thirty-six butternut squash, each averaging 4-5 pounds, and thirty-six pie pumpkins. I still have some of the squash left and they're still perfectly sound seven months after harvesting. The pumpkins I pureed and froze so I still have some of that. If the grid was down I would obviously have needed to use the pumpkin up first since it doesn't keep nearly as well as the squash, but that would have been fine--eating pumpkin through the autumn, then switching to squash for the winter and spring.

One year when I lived on a little postage stamp lot I grew 241 pounds of tomatoes, which I canned as ketchup, marinara, soup, spaghetti sauce, etc, sun dried, and used fresh. I still had some of that harvest left several years later.

I grow perennials that come up every year (rhubarb, horseradish, and asparagus) and many annuals that reseed themselves (mustard greens, Swiss chard, radishes, lettuces, carrots, plus annual herbs like dill, cilantro, holy basil, Hopi tobacco--that last one not for eating).

Each year I usually grow 30-40 different types of annual vegetables from seed (super cheap) and I have a culinary and medicinal herb garden with over 40 perennial and annual herbs. I have fruit trees too.

It's definitely doable and not even difficult. Yes, perhaps there's a little bit of a learning curve starting out, but it's pretty basic stuff.

You're right. These are the people that first inspired me. They grow enough for their family to eat, plus sell the rest to local restaurants... http://inhabitat.com/this-family-produces-6000-pounds-of-food-per-year-on-4000-square-feet-of-land/

I've quickly learned perennials are the way to go. Way less work.

Community. Brilliant concept. It's time for the citizens to take their power back.

That's why I shoplift, I don't want to be a paying slave

my parents have a house on the countryside with a huge garden (austria). i know a lot about cooking but absolutely nothing about gardening. can anyone recommend a good book or a place on the internet where i can learn everything from scratch, growing vegetables and fruits? i don't mind doing it the right way and investing more time than just going with the easiest way to do it.

One of my favorite authors is Rosalind Creasy. Look at her Edible Gardening books. I think I have them all now. It's not just food--it's beautiful flowers mixed in. So good for the eyes, soul and the tummy! Also, try Pinterest. I don't have to buy gardening books anymore. I just get on there!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/victorygarden/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_garden

Sepp Holzer is also from Austria and has done some great things and written a few books.

Toby Hemenway's book, Gaia's Garden, is fantastic.

If you only care about growing vegetables in a garden bed, there are a lot of books on how to get started and any one of them would work for you. Go to a used book store and see what they have, I'm sure you'll find something you like.

Research Kratky. Easiest, reliable method.

/r/gardening

cool, thanks for all the tips guys, i really hope i can get something started this summer!

Community vegetable gardens are amazing. We need more of these in urban settings. Automated vertical indoor gardens are even better.

One of the biggest issues with cities is that poor people don't have their own cars and often don't have great access to fresh produce. They also don't always have access to full kitchens and food prep. Immigrant communities do a much better job with nutrition than native poverty- they're communal and import their own inexpensive produce. I firmly believe that community gardens and some form of education around growing your own vegetables is key to community health in poor and urban environments.

It's fun for the kids to learn, too. More schools are doing it, too. Teaching the kids. I saw an interesting story the other day. They grow and sell their produce. Some schools have been doing it since 1998...http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2006/05/kids-are-growing-food-some-300-schools-cornells-ag-ed-program

that's very cool. cornell's agriculture school is actually a public state school. I believe several of the large state schools have similar programs. obviously they have relationships with the big-ag programs, but these have great potential for community programs and i think even greater potential as urban renewal programs.

I've been growing my own fruit and vegetables since 2009. Working great and saved so much money. I have a big garden that my neighbors as well and they take care of it too.

Talked my hubby into digging up half the backyard a few years ago so we could grow organic and heritage seeds. Taught myself to can, too. It's not difficult, really. I was surprised. Hoping to have a bigger garden and become more self-sufficient when he retires and we move in a year. Actually, I'm hoping to be able to take care of several families that way. Look on Pinterest. There are all kinds of gardening, canning and homesteading ideas. I've been learning herbal medicine, too, just in case. Got a little herbal garden, and Pinterest has lots of free information on that, too.

Build a decent stockpile, too. The garden takes months to grow and even then, the harvest may be no more than a few vegetarian meals. But a few trips to the dollar store right now can give you months of food: staples like rice and flour, pasta, canned goods, snacks, candy, water, all that. Canned goods will last forever.

Please don't support the dollar store. Also canned goods are high in BPAs.

Natural foods stores often have bulk dry goods like rice and don't funnel money to the corporations.

I will support and funnel my money to any corporation I choose. I trade $50 for a cart full of food, and I feel like it is a good trade, receiving a great deal of value for my money. The canned goods will last a lifetime. I'm talking about stocking up the most food and supplies for the least money, to quickly have a large stockpile without sinking hundreds of dollars in it. You may take your $50 and buy 10 items at the natural store if you choose, I won't get preachy.

i second this. food dependency in this system is a killer. literally.

Yes! 🌱

Be sure and use heritage seeds, too. There's a heritage seed festival here in Cali. http://theheirloomexpo.com/ I don't know if they have them in other states, but it would be worth looking into. Learn to save your seeds, too. It will save you money. And I haven't done this yet, but I've been looking into it--there are now seed trading organizations.

I love the idea of a home orchard/forest garden. Use all the layers of the forest and stack them with edible trees, shrubs, vines, herbs, ground covers, and rooters/tubers. Plant for medicine, pollination, mineral accumulation, food. Can be done on very small levels with just one or two fruit trees underplanted with several fruiting or medicinal herbs, ground covers shrubs, etc. or on a large scale like Martin Crawford's forest garden. Might not get bumper crops of everything but you build in diversity and minimize major losses.
Its a great concept and seems to be trending up.

Ever see the 300 year old food forest in Vietnam that's been in one family for 28 generations?

Gardening involves lots of trial and error.

https://m.imgur.com/a/wpxSe

That was my garden last year. A lot of the first row ended up being inedible, I now know that lettuce, spinach and Brussels sprouts become too bitter when grown during the very hot summers we get here. I also learned keeping the lettuce and spinach in the fridge for a couple days eased off some of the bitterness.

The point I'm trying to make is don't be too overwhelmed to simply even begin. No one ever grows a perfect garden, something always goes wrong. What works for others may not work for you. You have to work with your budget, your available space, I have seen lots of crazy garden pictures and ideas, chances are your situation is close to someone else's and there's already advice on how to go about it online. Read a bit, there's lots of information floating around out there. Someone in your family, one of your co-workers, a neighbor or someone in your friend circle is into gardening. Most gardeners like to talk about it, pick their brain if they let you.

Find out which zone you live in, this will help a lot and is an easy enough way to figure out what can grow where you live and when to plant it. http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

The gardening subreddit is friendly, I check it out daily while my garden is growing and I have never had to ask a question there cuz usually someone else is asking what I was wondering about. They are helpful and have good tips. I recommend keeping a physical notebook that you can write down your own tips and tricks you come across. Keep track of what works for you and what doesn't.

http://www.simplycanning.com is a good place to learn how to can

I do not garden to be self sufficient and I still consider myself new at it but it is very rewarding in many ways. Keeps you active, good way to spend time with your kids while teaching them, and allows you to help feed your family.

Yes, yes, yes!

Have a black thumb? Don't worry. Trust me everyone can grow food!

Plant some fruit and nut trees. So easy! Plus you'll attract deer, squirrels, and all kinds of other wild meat.

Dig a pond. Stock it with fish and edible aquatic plants (cat tails, etc). Bam! Self sustaining meat and veg. Plus ducks and geese if you're lucky.

And, hey. No over is going to complain about your "garden" of trees and water features.

Every time you purchase a product, you cast a vote to increase the wealth & power of its producer.
Growing your own food is one of the best ways to cast a vote against the psychopaths in power.

Great post. The more like this the better. I know its a simple few lines but It's a nice change to get some useful advice. Thanks OP. I'm gonna start looking into farming and other preparedness skills as a pastime.

This is meant to be a subreddit about conspiracies and seeing things from the other side. Not some anarchistic world view circlejerk.

Sorry mate, we are another side.

Old articles/books on "Victory Gardens" of WW2 are a great source of info for smallish gardens that supply a family with food.

np.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/4jn5nj/til_that_the_concept_of_victory_gardens_campaign/?st=j3bv50g2&sh=22849d38

np.reddit.com/r/gardening/comments/37592t/a_list_of_gardening_shows_available_on_youtube/

There are a LOT of great how-to gardening videos on youtube. I've learned a lot of basic information from them over the years.

One of the most important things people can do to just get started is to begin a compost heap. Save all of your coffee grounds, carrot tops, old salad, grass clippings, egg shells, etc and put in a heap somewhere in the back of your yard. It helps if you just make a circular cage out of some old chicken wire or something. Avoid things like meats, cheese, bones, etc so that you don't give vermin a place to thrive. Compost is a gardeners best friend. Understanding how to compost well isn't that difficult, and there must be thousands of videos about it. No need to buy a fancy rolling compost bin or anything like that. Good compost will usually take close to a year to break all the way down, and it will provide a nutrient rich mulch for your garden in the future.

You assuming the nuclear fallout doesn't contaminate the soil beyond use.

Yawn

Keep your money out of corporate hands or government hands? One drops bombs the other makes my computer.

They both drop bombs buddy. Almost nothing is ethical

I'm not your buddy, pal.

Farming animals is better.

Veganism is unhealthy.

haha! our body doesn't recognize the fruits and vegetables of today? They are loaded with anti-nutrients, eh?

If you think you can grow enough vegetables to live off by yourself, you need to see a doctor for brain damage

http://www.businessinsider.com/growing-our-own-food-saves-us-up-to-24000-a-year-2015-4

You will never be able to grow your own supply of food. And I do my own veggie garden.

This is exactly right, unless you own many acres of land and are an actual farmer you cannot produce enough food.

Those "survival seed" packages are hilariously sad because the people buying them don't appear to understand it takes months to grow anything with nutritional value and you need a great deal of land to grow enough to sustain yourself.

I know a couple that it took about 20 years, but they are almost completely off the food grid (spices, grains, oils are still purchased), but they have a huge garden, berry and fruit orchard, eggs and meat birds. A greenhouse that also makes solar hot water, as well. They trade w others and sell eggs.

took about 20 years

That is approximately 27.910983% of the average human life.

Well, shit. It ain't gonna happen overnight. I fuckin love reddit, people are like, what's the bare minimum effort I can throw money at?....

not with that attitude

Do you have a veggie garden?

I do, and I raise livestock....

Sounds like your a farmer no shit.

I'd go for a fish pond and green house.

...and buy everything else with BitCoin!

get a few chickens if you are able. I raised a few meat chickens this year and they are easy and good eating. a couple egg chickens (not laying yet) my wife does the gardening thing. I am doing honey bees this year. I want to get a milk goat in the future. learn to jar your veggies and they can last you a long time. pickled beats are good and last for a long time. etc etc etc.

Step 0 - test your soil, comrade. Most of the land is polluted with lead and worse things.

Water too. It might even be worth it to invest in a reverse osmosis filter depending on your water quality.

I don't have a house.

Containers or even window boxes. I grew greens and herbs in a studio window.

I'm growing asparagus, strawberries, lettuce, tomatoes, blackberries, peppers, peas, beans etc. I've been trying to convert over to perennials, less work. I'm also making my own compost from leaves, grass clippings, horse poo, food scraps.

Advice for beginners, it's all about the soil. Learn composting, or just buy it and you're good!

As a farmer and self-suffiency fanatic the last 10 years, here's some tips to beginners:

• Focus on getting good growing easily storable, high productivity staple crops. Potatos, corn, beans, peas, pumpkins, grains, whatever is the traditional staples in your area. 500 tomatos won't fill you family long, 500 kg of potatos is a winter worth of full bellies. If you can, plant bushes and trees in available space that also gives a storable yield, ie nuts or storable fruit.

• With staples covered, grow highly productive, nutritious crops. Potatos or corn is calories galore, but doesn't have very much in the vitamine/minerals department. Things like kale, tomatos, spinach, carrots. You are looking for growable vitamine pills basically.

• Having a good steady food supply from the above, dedicate some space to spices, basil, oregano, chives etc. People have died from getting disgusted eating the same bland food day in and day out. At some point you/your body will refuse to eat it any more, and you starve.

• Preservation and storage. Just as important as learning to grow is learning to store your produce. A dark roof, pavement or large stone can dry a lot of food in a full day of sun. A buried barrel is a good place to store root vegetables. Canning, making jams etc.

• Learn to cook with what you grow. Your body will crave MSG, sugar, fast carbs and fats. Learn to compose a meal that pleases both the tastebuds and the body.

• Learn what you can eat for free during each season. Nettles are both protein and vitamin/mineral bombs for instance. Chickweed makes a fine salad. Pigweed have spinach like leaves and produces a storable grain. So on and so forth.

Last, chickens are amazing food producers, consider getting some, and figure out how to feed them:)

AMA. I grow 90% of the food I eat and raise 1/2 the meat I eat.

What cultivation surface do you need to feed (100%) a family of 5 if you have decent soil (humus) in a temperate region? Assume the meat can be hunted, but we would need all the fruit/vegetables/potato from the garden, including enough supply to last the winter. Is it doable without a tractor?

Sorry I'm going to have to make this quick. Lots of work today. If you have more Q's hit me up.

cultivation surface do you need

I'm a big fan of till free mixed-crop farming. The meat I eat is chicken with some hunted deer. Once you have the weeds under control, the chicken do an amazing job of weeding. The trick with that is to use portable fencing, and keep them out until the planets devel a good root system. Then let the chicken go at it. They eat the pests like squash bugs and bean beetles. Our ducks keep the slugs under control.

to feed (100%) a family of 5

For a family of 4, we have 17 acres and about 1/2 of that is garden space. 1/8 for chickens and ducks. We have a 2 acre field for oats and wheat for the chickens. ( It's too small and too much work for human consumption, but could be used in a pinch).

We also have a fruit grove, with apples and peaches that takes up a couple of acres.

Is it doable without a tractor?

Not without a lot of hard work and great initial setup. While we try not to till, sometime we have to for crop rotation or if weeds get out of hand. Also use it to maintain the wheat and oats. Corn field can all be done by hand, assuming the soil is ready.

As other have said. So much is trial and error. Every year things get more efficient. We discover better ways of doing things. It's a constant learning experience.

Did you have any more questions about farming or hunting?

I wonder what would be the absolute minimum surface to survive. You have lots and lots of space. One could do with far less, e.g. there is a way to cultivate potatoes in trash cans and optimize the yield/surface ratio. I wonder what the minimum would be, for a family, in the conditions previously described. Do you have an idea?

I'm the wrong person to ask for that. Compared to my neighbors, I have a tiny farm. I can tell you, if you want variety, you need lots of space. There's lots of good reading on vertical farming and indoor growing. Sorry, I can't help you more.

This is exactly why I love this sub. I learn something new everyday! Thank you!

And create your own money!

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/betternews] Plant a vegetable garden.

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Great idea, however fruit is more important, as humans derive far more energy from fruit. Melons, strawberries, apples, whatever grows in your area.

Chickens will eat your waste and give you eggs in return. And they're cute lil fellers..

Username checks out

you should also do this because plant based diet is awesome

That's why I shoplift

Im starting my hydroponic garden.. Did you know leafy greens grow only using water and some nutrients?

my tips (still learning, too):

container garden using food-grade 5 gal buckets (these things are great!).

indoor tent with led space bucket lights (can work in tent or in 5 gal bucket) to get the plants started earlier in the season

a compost bin. racoon proof lid on a big wheeled garbage bin. drill 1 inch holes all around for air. Lid it and spin it to help mix the compost up.

a general big soil bin kept indoors in lowlight where you can drop seeds and see how they take

hoop-house it if you have outdoor space (works on roofs too). metal electrical tubing curved to shape are the strongest, but you can do something lightweight with pvc tubing and plumbing connectors. these things are awesome.

a water filter, and ways to collect water.

No.

I like modern civilization and not having to grow or hunt my own food.

Everyone where I live has a garden. I don't think I actually know anyone who doesn't have a garden at their house.

It's not much help during the winter though....

I have some stuff I grow inside during the winter but it's just too cold for most things

Don't forget about checking to see if your town has a CSA(community supported agriculture). You buy in to the farm and in return they provide you with a vegetable share. You are paying to give local folks a job and get more real vegetables than you'll know what to do with on a weekly basis. Win win.

Looking up at His disciples, Jesus said:

“Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be satisfied. Blessed are you who weep now, for you will laugh. Blessed are you when people hate you, and when they exclude you and insult you and reject your name as evil because of the Son of Man. Rejoice in that day and leap for joy, because great is your reward in heaven. For their fathers treated the prophets in the same way.

But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort. Woe to you who are well fed now, for you will hunger. Woe to you who laugh now, for you will mourn and weep. Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for their fathers treated the false prophets in the same way.

Straw bale gardening is where it's at! Even on your porch in a city.

This is a hard hit to the governement. More naturally grown food by citizens meens less lobbying for farm lands from Mansanto and others.

.....draw the rest of the fucking owl

we live in a society where 1% of the population can grow many, many times more food than the entire country can eat. compare that to countries like india where more than half of the population is farming. it comes down to the scale and productivity of farming practices. if we were all to go back to subsistence farming at a microscopic scale, i dont think our quality of life would increase. in fact we would all waste so much time farming that we would start regressing as a society.

Gardening is fine and all but how big of a garden would it take to get all your food from your own yard?

You'd be surprised with containers, vertical growth and successive plantings what you really can do.

I'm looking at building a cold frame or greenhouse as well.

Gardening is fine and all but how big of a garden would it take to get all your food from your own yard?

Water without fluoridated water also.

Great advice. Look up John Kohler on Youtube. His Growing Your Greens channel will get you hooked.

Also eat less meat and help out your environment. Beef is soooooo bad.

Look into community wind and solar farms and research which suppliers you can choose from your electric company. I'm about to doublefuck Eversource on profits, with savings to me and no change/install on my property.

I built a Hugelkultur recently for my herb garden. My basil has already responded amazingly. I've only had to water this bad boy 1 time in 20 days so far. With the rain coming the next couple days I won't have to water for 3 weeks. People need to realize our job is to till the earth. Work with nature.

Would Potatoes be a good Plant to grow ICE??

im just talking realistically. I know a lot of preppers and they forget a main key, them being a prepper makes them a target for those who are violent but do not prep.

need a good security guy? lol

dont forget to plant weed too cuz its awesome

that's very cool. cornell's agriculture school is actually a public state school. I believe several of the large state schools have similar programs. obviously they have relationships with the big-ag programs, but these have great potential for community programs and i think even greater potential as urban renewal programs.

Zones probably references to growth zones. For example : Sweden is devided in to several zones depending on what climate it provides

This will help: http://planthardiness.ars.usda.gov/PHZMWeb/

Do you have a veggie garden?

his vids are great

Ya I know that. That's what I just said. It's here for everyone. Do you even comprehend what anyone else writes or even what you write? Or are you blinded by EBT?

Racist rebranding.

So many people in this sub complain about things like this- and rightly so, but they're mostly leftists who consistently vote for bigger government. It makes no fucking sense. This is bigger government, people.

Not that I know of. At least not here in arkansas. Our Plant Board/EPA does nothing with that. They mainly focus on regulation to protect farmers from seed fraud and people using chemicals all willy nilly. Even if growing a garden and a nearby farmer sprays and kills it you can file and they'll be fined and you may even be reimbursed.

I'm in rural Arkansas and most people have their own gardens that provide them with veges most of the year and never have I heard of any agency actively trying to stop that. I also work at a local company that sells seed to farmers. However we dont sell seed for gardening. To get non-gmo seed is as easy as calling and saying hey I want conventional this type of seed. There are no regulations that prevent this. We mainly sell soybeans, rice, corn, and wheat. 90% rice we sell are non-gmo. In fact in order to sell rice in arkansas you have to have a lot trail showing its been gmo tested. The only gmo rice that can be planted is clearfield and most dont buy it as its $40-50 a bu instead of $10-12 like the conventional rice. Wheat is all non-gmo and last I knew no gmo wheat is approved in arkansas. Soybeans are different as you cant make money growing conventional beans unless you have a specific conventional bean contract.

One last quick question. I know Australia is a big place, but by chance did you ever see Bill Mollison speak before he died?