A true left winger doesn't believe in nation states or governments. What's called the left these days is still corporate fascism with better marketing.

The best example of this is the EU which gets called left wing (open boarders etc etc) but the EU also prints €10bn a month to buy private corporate debt whilst at the same time enforce harsh austerity on greek pensioners. This is not left wing.

The arguement played out as right v left in the media is a divide and rule tactic. They make you argue between right and left whilst the bankers run off with all the money.

The EU is a union of multiple countries and describing it as "lefty" frankly doesn't make any sense.

I know it doesn't make sense but you'd be amazed at how many self described left wingers love it.

I thought satire and irony were dead. But then this guy posted

Does removing 23 million of the poorest people from health coverage make sense to you?

I didn't even give my opinion on healthcare. But having it, and not designating it to American Citizens is hurtful since the only ones paying are Americans.

Was this really worth a post? I've heard all of this droning thousands of times. Anything original to add?

You said the left is pushing for "government funded programmes" and that such behaviour "makes no sense".

yes makes no sense at the same time as advocating open borders

It does because 18.5 million of them were forced to get coverage or pay a hefty fee. /s

The Constitution does not give the federal government the right to enforce immigration nor to require IDs for voting.

So you advocate a country where you can come from any background and culture on the planet, show up here and vote without identifying yourself? That's not called a country

Why should I give up my freedom to make you feel good?

Why should voters have to prove they are innocent to vote? The burden should be on the state to prove guilt. Why not just increase penalties for those who get caught?

Get caught? without records of anything how could enforcement ever be viable? Putting burden on the state has never worked out, the government sucks at what to does. If you really consider proving who you are as a case of the government stripping your freedom then id argue that the government blatantly letting the election be swayed by the 11M+ illegals living here who all have a common agenda as stripping my freedom. Where's the true American citizen being placed on the governments priorities list?

I have the right to vote. If I have to carry someone else's property to vote, then it is not a right.

Freedom ain't easy.

Elcad, are you willing to house and feed immigrants yourself, without the violent and coercive nature of the oligarchy?

I already do.

So what happens when someone has to go to the emergency room, racks up $100,000 in bills, and is also poor as fuck and cannot pay? They don't pay, and their debt turns into increased cost to those that can (and healthcare in general).

In a free market healthcare system premiums and prices all around are forced to drop due to the competition of a free market. You are not entitled to a doctors time and care

Can you explain exactly how a free market causes a price drop?

Who does communism sound like a good deal to? The poor.

Anybody who works for a living and understands where "profit" actually comes from. Hint: you.

what does that even mean? Are you saying everyone agrees with communis

Who do you think employs these workers? There must be someone at the top and it can be either the state or private citizens.

Oh yes, please Mr Boss Man. Give me permission to work so I can take home a fraction of what I produce! You're so magnanimous and productive. Maybe someday you can take some of the value you stole from my labor and use it to employ someone else!

Capitalism has reduced global poverty by much more than the hundreds of millions communism has killed. But that's none of my business. sips tea

pisses in your tea

Future-minded leftists see a purely automated state as the ideal solution. Communism fails, like capitalism, due to human greed and corruptibility. I'm sure we can all come up with dystopian scenarios for it.

Should also note that in true Communism, the kind not corrupted by strongmen, the state is private citizens.

So, coming at this from what you assume the left believe may not be the most productive way to get answers to your questions. There's lots of implicit assumptions in there that I believe a majority of liberals and leftists would disagree with. The good news is that it doesn't make sense to you because it's not the argument we're making. Outlets like CNN mislead people, but conservative information sources do the same, you know?

So we can either take what the left debates at face value and just dismiss their policies to democrats being extremely moral and caring people or we can look at the bigger picture.

You will never learn anything if you don't listen to your opponents. I know we're on the conspiracy sub atm, but seriously, we're not out to get you any more than the conservatives are. We disagree with you politically.

Welfare, food stamps, sanctuary cities, Healthcare, free education- we are incentivizing millions of unskilled and non english speaking people to come flooding in our door step.

Most liberals I know do not want open borders and immigration. We do want to take care of the people already here. The far left believes that borders are an arbitrary fence designed to keep populations static and docile. They would rather allow open travel between nations, or a redefinition of what a nation even is. Sure, people could move here, but you'd also be free to leave for anywhere else. This would require global cooperation and will not happen anytime soon, so it means almost nothing. But there you go.

Who does communism sound like a good deal to? The poor.

Nearly half of our children are poor. The numbers will only get worse, given current trends. And again, most liberals do not want full-blown communism. We want a society that doesn't raise half its children near the poverty line. Poverty leads to crime and wasted potential, making our current wealth inequality an incredibly inefficient and costly system. We view welfare as the means by which everyone can start life with reasonable opportunities and security, as well as a crime-deterrent. Morality doesn't need to factor into it.

Who would even enlist in an army with a government who backs sanctuary cities? How could you ask someone to put their life on the line for... whoever the hell feels entitled to defense from any corner of the earth.

I don't think anyone enlists today for some random guy three states over. They enlist to protect their friends and families. I don't see how this would change anything, even if it was an accurate representation of leftist views.

So communism is your answer then? Do you even history?

How about you make counter arguements to his points rather than spit your dummy out?

agreed.