You'd do better to worry about the Chinese just buying the place up, no gunfire necessary.

The Saudis now own the largest U.S. refinery.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/01/investing/saudi-arabia-buys-largest-oil-refinery-port-arthur/index.html

There are groups within the army that would maintain loyalty in that event. Oathkeepers come to mind but I think they've had some bad headlines recently.

I think it would be a wake up call to most soldiers if they were sent to their own areas to disarm their own families so if it does happen they'd probably scramble them around.

The speed that it could happen is alarming too; take even that training exercise posted earlier. If they were serious they could have disarmed the city before anyone would know to react. Can't do much against a militarized police force never mind the army.

If they don't mercenaries hired by CIA-DoD would.

The best thing that Americans can do is get back to making stuff, because when the shit goes down, it will be finding our corporations have left and no one wants our monopoly money anymore.

It's amazing that the GM bailout cost the government $11b, the exact same number GM is investing in China where the profit they earn has to stay, except I guess the bit they need to lobby the US government.

Most will do whatever they're told as long as they keep receiving a paycheck, and that includes "neutralizing" civilians. Source: Was active duty for 5 years.

I was in 3 years and I say no chance in hell. They would turn on the superiors.

I second this completely. You non-vets have not a clue how important home and family is to us. I firmly, and I mean FIRMLY know without any doubt our own country would be safe from our own armed forces. If anything, they would turn their backs on the government and stand down against any order to take over the country by force. Now, a privately organized battalion on a suicide mission? Much more likely to occur. Look at the idea of Northwoods. Totally viable reality imo.

As a non-vet permanent civilian - I say thank you Sir (or Ma'am) for watching our backs! We appreciate what you do for our country!

Male, but not sir. I work for a living 👍🏻

Nope. Keep in mind that the majority of the armed forces are like you and me. They aren't privvy to high level information and even fewer so are as not conspiracy as we are. If a critical mass of them were to become aware, they would collectively use their skills to fight for us. The elite fear this prospect very much.

We need a grassroots education program to get the population up to speed

Those private military organizations will be used, and they will likely use foreign armed men, not citizens and they only exist at tax payer expence since they earn their money via contracts with the U.S. Government. They also hire out to other nations. The mercenaries themselves have no loyalty to anyone but their paymaster.

They were used to attack the DAPL protestors.

Yes

to the point of the 2nd link -- precedent was set for extrajudicial killing of an American citizen. In the DoJ whitepages for this event it cites that "use of force under such a circumstance would be justified as an act of national self defense" (bottom left corner of the image). This act and this paper set the momentum for declaring that national security interests override the citizens' right to due process as described in the 5th Amendment.

Most will....some won't

No chance in hell.

Soldiers will do a lot but their entire belief system rests on protecting the country. If they were asked to shoot civilians, they would probably start laughing and then they would go awol. The military would experience a full blown coup within weeks.

^

This is the foundation of their identity. They would need to make some massive perceptual changes to make attacks on countrymen permissible.

but what about kent state shootings in 1970? and those were the national guard

There are always the occasional psychopaths who are willing to do anything for money or power.

only if it becomes socially acceptable within the collective of servicemen/women. look what police have evolved into - they fight against US citizens on the reg. same with politicians. can't let the heroes define the limits of their own hero network.

You tell people us citizens are rioting or some shit, causing harm to innocents, you think they wouldn't? Of course they would, all you need to do is paint it the right way (the citizens as bad people doing bad things).

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. You order a soldier to fire on innocent unsuspecting civilians and I'd expect the vast majority to say "Hell no" (I'd hope it would be similar whether it was American citizens or not, but that's a whole other issue). It's never going to be that black and white, though.

I'm not a military guy so take this with a nice chunk of salt, but I would think that the real question isn't "Would you fight US Citizens/Civilians" but "How much do you trust your CO and the chain of command". As I understand it the general boots on ground grunts/working men don't have every single piece of information in every operation. If they're going into what they've been informed is a potentially dangerous situation with terrorists, enemy combatants, or hell even violent protesters they would (understandably) be much more likely to open fire.

Hell, even things that start out as peaceful can easily get out of control (see the Kent state massacre). Is it possible for some big "Execute Order 66" message to be sent out and the military starts attacking citizens out of nowhere? No way. Is it possible for an event or an incident to get wildly out of control (with or without shadowy organizations, crisis actors, and agent provocateurs)? It's happened before, and it will almost certainly happen again.

what about the soldiers who shot at and killed unarmed students at Kent state? it can happen.

If fired upon first, would you blame them?

I'm thinking probably 30% wouldn't, 70% would. That 30% are the ones we need to reach out to, imo. Same can be said with LEO's.

Yes, we already have.

Foreign troops, plenty of them, are maintained on US soil in the event they need to fire on civilians.

Russian soldiers don't give a shit about the average American citizen. They're not the only foreign troops kept here.

Look into Fort Carson, Colorado, and their exchange program/training of Russian soldiers. Dave Hodges offers plenty of information about the disconcerting number of foreign troops stationed here in the USA.

I was in the Army. I know other people, especially marines that have told me they wouldn't. I really do not think so. I agree with other posters that they would use UN forces or private security firms.

Fuck yeah they would.

Vet here. Was also into conspiracies and talked in length about this exact topic with a wide array of people when i was in (got out in 2013). The vast majority seemed to not like the idea of being used against the citizens. But alas, that doesn't matter overall because you have to follow orders. So unless you talk to/convince someone that has some rank behind them it will be very difficult to pull off.
Alot of interesting conversations were had, and before i got out, i actually had to attend riot training. No doubt in my mind, like the u.s. govt., If the top leadership is corrupt it will be hard to stop it from happening as just disobeying an order can get you an article, and get your guns taken away.

Nope. US military is a double edged sword for tptb. They can use it elsewhere all they want. They try to use it on us? That would be suicide at this time.

I'm sure many of us are speaking with our hope as much as our reson. But I agree with the private contractors theory. They tie up our entire military overseas, and use contractors while the armed forces are preoccupied.

Look how many cops control us now. They would continue doing that, more or less. Contractors take out the hot spots of committed resistance

That's. A. Great. Question!

One I have truly never thought of.

I would doubt it, but look at the cops. Tell them the guy is a criminal and nobody cares what happens to him- they shoot them in the streets!!

They already do, on smaller scales. After New Orleans, they went through neighborhoods, illegally and forcibly disarming people in there own homes. Martial lockdown after Boston. And cops on the street do it on an almost daily basis.

You'd just have to deploy people away from their homes, around strangers, throw in a dash of "domestic terrorism", "foreign sympathizers", "whatever", and 90+% of them would go along with it. Not for god and country, but for paycheck and following orders.

I asked this of military men long ago, only I added 'if ordered to' The answer was, 'In a heartbeat.'

It all depends on the propaganda. A military tank purposefully set fire to the Branch Davidians church knowing they would kill some 30 innocent American children but the propaganda against them was so strong that no one even substantially complained about it.

The proper propaganda would certainly be in place and the military would have no qualms in mowing us down.

Of course they would. Look at Kent State!!! For the record, I'm ex military.

No. This is why I fear that they will be engaged elsewhere, or "neutralized" if shit were to go down.

"They" wouldnt frame it to a group of US soldiers "Hey we have a popular movement of working class citizens who believe the government has lost its way. We are the spear of establishment government and we need you to attack and kill Americans so we can keep things going on as they have been. The current way is profit and you serve military industrial corporations and the general suppression of dissent now."

"They" would say instead "we have a group of extremist Americans who are wielding weapons and are threatening innocent civilians. You took an oath to protect America from all enemies... foreign and domestic. These extremists are enemies of the republic and threaten freedom and our very way of life."

The first step of any war is to dehumanize your opponent- turn them into mindless murderous animals. Dont share your enemies logic for fighting- just dismiss the logic as absurd to prevent discussion. By taking the humanity out of your enemy, you make it easy for a military to perform horrific acts against that enemy.

"They" would also use distant power as much as possible: the air force, the navy in coastal regions, etc.

The key would be whether "they" could prevent diffusion of rebel logic within the militaries ranks. If not, the power of an armed populace combined with systemic military failures due to refusing soldiers combined with disruptions in supply etc etc would end the war in the dissenters favor. If they could control the narrative by isolating troops and quickly break the dissent by brutal shock and awe tactics, they could stifle the movement.

Frankly, I dont think armed revolt is necessary... yet. This could be turned around with voting if the American People become aware of what the problems are. Politicians would rise out of the citizenry (instead of the career corrupt fucks we have now) and things would change. So basically, this question is just morbidly hypothetical. Nonetheless, I understand why you ask it.

Like any revolution or dissent movement, the most important determinant of success is not weapon superiority (though this is very important) but rather how much popular support the movement has. The US revolution succeeded because 1) the Colonists while inferior in tactics and weaponry had enough people to counteract their disadvantage 2) the British had an impossibly large area of land to control/stifle relative to the power they could bring (and supply) by sea, and 3) while the independence movement wasnt the majority, it was large enough to be beyond what the British could control. Honorable mention goes to the Loyalists who did not help anywhere near as much as Britain had hoped.

In thesis, military should be lawful and neutral. They are trained to follow orders. So, in thesis, yes.

But its not the way things work in real life. People have feellings, and every non sociopath/psychopath human being know it is wrong to harm other human being.

So how to resolve this? DEHUMANIZATION.

When a group of people is be said to be less than humans, the road to genocide is paved. So here's a tip: if you want to know who is next on the list, look for the ones being collectively demonized.

Happened already in history, so yes, it can happen in the US.

Also, do your research in Democide.

This reminds me of the Black Mirror episode called Men Against Fire

That's the idea.

No.

yes they would , any psychopath can sign up to join the army , besides those who would join up for a chance to kill people ( most of them do ) you have the added bonus of how they are trained , you are a killing machine and will point and click because you are brainwashed into thinking everything thats not in your army is an enemy .