Grenfell vs WTC 7
33 2017-06-15 by Techius2
I think there's a few interesting parallel comparisons between Grenfell and WTC 7 that hasn't been addressed yet, that at least I've seen.
The thing thing is that WTC 7 was built in 1983, and opened in 1987. Grenfell on the other hand was built in 1972, and opened in 1974. Why did a 14 year old tower (on 9/11) collapse due to fire when it would have been subject to much higher building standards and codes, the material would be more newer and therefore stronger, and the construction time was longer, which usually means that when the concrete was poured, it had longer time to set, which means that it gets stronger. If I know anything about concrete construction, it's that the more time you allow it to set, the stronger it gets.
The temperature in Grenfell got up to 1,000 celsius. Do you know what else did as well? The twin towers. All though this is about the WTC 7 specifically, it's claimed that debris from the twin towers fell and started a fire. Let's give the temperature a leeway of 2/3 for the sake of the environments of the twin towers and WTC 7 being different. That's still 660 degrees + in the WTC which it collapsed under.
Why is a 43 year old building, built in less time, has weaker material, and had a fire for 3x the duration of WTC 7 still stand, while with WTC 7 we saw the supports collapse simultaneously?
Even at the fundamentals, the basic materials for Grenfell and WTC 7 would be the same. Steel that's concreted (as steel improves tension in concrete) for the columns, and generally steel for the floors (if it were to be concreted, it'd be heavy).
While WTC 7 looked great on the outside, Grenfell looks horrible, though this can be attributed to the material they used when panelling the exterior. Despite this, why isn't there any glass left on Grenfell, while on WTC the exterior walls were basically kept in tact. You'd think that glass might break due to being in an environment like WTC 7 where there's shit burning at massive temperatures.
What are your thoughts on my claims? I don't generally study conspiracy theories, but these are some legitimate comparisons between the two buildings that I'd be interested in on expanding.
4 comments
n/a postslongcomments 2017-06-15
I've posted a bit on this since Grenfell since it "rekindled" my own investigation.
The first point I'd like to address is "due to fire." Some people will disagree, but I think this is a misconception. I feel like some of the WTC7 conspiracy theorists like to paint WTC7 as a completely undamaged building that collapsed SOLELY because of fire. The photo/video/eyewitness evidence suggest otherwise. One important thing that isn't often mentioned is all video angles of WTC7's collapse are from the North side of the building. The south side (that faced the WTC) was both on fire and obscured by the settling dust of the collapse.
So what is relevant about the south side? That's the side the WTC "fell on"
http://i.imgur.com/eMIUKG4.jpg
You be the judge:
http://i.imgur.com/e0KlMqY.jpg A 10+ story tall, 3 window wide corner of the building is significantly damaged
http://i.imgur.com/JCCkUln.jpg Another angle of that corner
http://i.imgur.com/a1bBx8D.png Yet another angle of the corner. I drew red arrows to point where windows appear to be missing.
http://i.imgur.com/QvzUc4F.jpg Another angle of the corner, admittedly less impressive - but one of the few that exists
http://i.imgur.com/dAxtKfR.jpg Most importantly, what's referred to as the "gash". After seeing this image it's hard to argue that the building collapsed in a single "controlled demolition". Part of the building collapsed when the full thing fell.
http://i.imgur.com/1E4Wrej.png Perspective/closeup of the gash (I can't verify the measurements are accurate)
Then witness testimonies.
Here's the best evidence that acknowledges the hole in video form.
Some quotes from firefighters that was published in firefighter magazine. Can't exactly verify they're authentic, but that's for you to decide.
A quote from a NYT transcript - .pdf warning
Another quote from Firehouse
Next is a little bit of my own narrative. I want to be clear that I'm interpreting this part of the evidence to provide my own persective.
WTC4: http://i.imgur.com/NgOKyPG.jpg This is a nearby building that the WTC also fell on. If you doubt that falling concrete/steel could significantly damage a steel building, think again. The entire building is crushed like an aluminium can. A diagram of where WTC4 is I suspect it would have been hit by the other tower falling.
Larry Silversteins "we're going to pull it" quote: I think pull it is in context to the firefighting operation, not "pulling" in reference to taking down the building.
Next to address your individual questions:
I think the pictures prove otherwise, refer back to them if this is still disputed.
Again, eyewitness testimonies/pictures suggest otherwise - if you accept the gash and damaged corner as true, you are acknowledging a two-series collapse. This video also debunks a simultaneous collapse if you don't consider the gash to be 'enough.' Pay attention to the small building on the top (dubbed the "penthouse"). That falls in on itself, which suggests whatever was beneath it on the South Side (where it was damaged) was also missing. My narrative would be that the south side collapsed first and the "controlled demolition" collapse is pretty much the remaining shell. Here's a rough, theoretical 3D modeling of how that might look if the cameras were on the south side (which would be followed by the rest of the building + penthouse collapsing). Also, a big difference is that the WTC7 was 47 floors while the other was only (I believe?) 27. That's almost double the height.
For full disclosure on where I am on the 9/11 conspiracy: I believe a plane crashed in a PN field, I believe a 747 hit the pentagon, and I believe the WTC fell due to planes. In regards to complacency: I don't believe that our senate/congress/President were complicit in an attack on our country. I believe the FBI had forewarning, but I don't believe it was anything that was taken seriously and it was lost in a pile of other threats. In regards to funding, I believe that money used by the CIA to destabilize the Middle East/Afghanistan ended up in the hands of 'terrorists.' I believe Saudi Arabia had a much larger role than our government acknowledges. I don't believe they thought it'd be used against us. In regards to post-9/11: I believe the government intentionally used it to funnel money to defense contractors/misled us into multiple wars. I've dabbled with other theories over the years, but ultimately I haven't seen enough evidence that I feel I'd be able to share in good faith. IE if I have my own doubts, I don't feel I have done my diligence enough to pass my own narrative to other people.
n/a snowmandan 2017-06-15
You have a very err unique perspective on 911. Respectfully, I disagree.
Physics can explain why wtc7 had to have fallen from controlled demolition. It doesn't matter how damaged the building was prior. It would not fall at near freefall speed and be completely gone from standing to rubble in under a minute without demolition. In the video of it falling, the Windows would not all shatter in two vertical lines equally separated from each other if this had been an organic collapse. It doesn't matter how much debris may have hit it or what corner the building was on fire It just would not have collapsed in that way.
The first building that was hit with the plane would not have collapsed into its own footprint either. If the beam where the plane hit, let's say 4/5 up the building, then if it broke there, the mass of the top would only have enough potential energy to take out its own mass, leaving the building still 3/5 tall, likely falling diagonal through the last 3/5 because it wouldn't have enough energy to destroy the rest of the building.
I wish more scientists could see what's right in front of them. How can you explain the hijackers passport being magically found on the street? That makes it all obvious to me that it was all a planned set up.
n/a postslongcomments 2017-06-15
Thanks for opening your mind and at least giving my theory consideration even if you disagree :)
Not sure I'll convince you if I haven't already, but I forgot to link this video. In my mind's processing of the data, it supports my multi-stage collapse theory (first the gash which happens long before the main collapse, the collapse which takes down the penthouse and leaves just the outer "skeleton", and lastly the outer skeleton which was captured on camera).
The relevant part of that video is in poorly edited screencap I made in paint. http://i.imgur.com/Jn6wgWG.png . If the entire building were to collapse in a controlled demolition from the bottom up, from my understanding of physics the trapezoid shape of the building would remain in-tact. Meaning, there'd still be horizontal support beams preventing the building from buckling like it did. However, that image either the building split in half and bent in on itself OR the building collapsed inward.
Here's my theory as to what happened. http://i.imgur.com/T163VOx.png . The area around the gash collapsed slowly, eventually taking the penthouse in, leaving just the skeleton of the building up. With no support, the building buckled inward until it cracked at the "ripple".
The point of my post is basically to clear up [what I believe to be] the misconception that WTC7 had no damage and it was just a fire that took it down. I believe that, at minimum, there was extensive damage in addition to the fire. If someone wants to break that down and argue the pictures are all fake that's fine with me and is just an opinion, but I see it hard to deny the corner damage/gash which - if they existed - makes a collapse a lot more plausible.
As for that, I'll leave this image. You're correct in that the top DID break off. The problem was, when it broke off all of that weight had to go somewhere. It didn't just slide off [as it was still connected by steel beams that acted as guides]. Instead, it fell in like a chisel being hammered into a piece of wood through the grain, splitting the core as it got further in. And every beam that was in that core, split away from from the beams it was connected to. Remember: each floor can only support a certain amount of weight. Once the top 1/5th failed, the floor at the top of the 4/5ths all of a sudden had to support the entire weight of the top 1/5th. When that floor failed, the floor below it had to support the 1/5th + 1 floor. ETC., Seeing as that top was still connected support beams the path of least resistance was straight down.
This video shows the top bending and being "guided on the rails" EXTREMELY well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SSS0DDqfm0 If you pause/unpause repeatedly in the first couple seconds and look at the breach on the left side, you can actually see the corners frame bend inward.
1 rspeed 2017-06-15
Do you mean 757?
n/a Akareyon 2017-06-15
Good summary!
n/a snowmandan 2017-06-15
You have a very err unique perspective on 911. Respectfully, I disagree.
Physics can explain why wtc7 had to have fallen from controlled demolition. It doesn't matter how damaged the building was prior. It would not fall at near freefall speed and be completely gone from standing to rubble in under a minute without demolition. In the video of it falling, the Windows would not all shatter in two vertical lines equally separated from each other if this had been an organic collapse. It doesn't matter how much debris may have hit it or what corner the building was on fire It just would not have collapsed in that way.
The first building that was hit with the plane would not have collapsed into its own footprint either. If the beam where the plane hit, let's say 4/5 up the building, then if it broke there, the mass of the top would only have enough potential energy to take out its own mass, leaving the building still 3/5 tall, likely falling diagonal through the last 3/5 because it wouldn't have enough energy to destroy the rest of the building.
I wish more scientists could see what's right in front of them. How can you explain the hijackers passport being magically found on the street? That makes it all obvious to me that it was all a planned set up.
1 rspeed 2017-06-15
Do you mean 757?