Your concern is duly noted.

You know this how?

IQ + Pattern Recognition + Wisdom

r/iamverysmart

/r/iamabundleofsticks

You got me there.

Yawn

Mate he referred to you as a bundle of sticks, not a homosexual

So you guess

You have the IQ of a peanut, friend..

IQ

lol

Okay now we KNOW you're just larping

so...mental illness

'anti-trump' shills?
'pro-government' comments?
The shills are here with one goal. To break this place. To disrupt the discussion and the learning, and make us seem like fools to outsiders. Stick to the issues and we can spin it back on them.

TRUMP IS THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!

Who the fuck are these people that think he's still an outsider? He's just incompetent. Shit, he leaked classified intel to Russians before he told any of you about aliens or 9/11.

There is no getting through to these thick headed retards. They've convinced themselves that trump is one thing and they'll never let anyone show them otherwise no matter what he actually does. It's called brainwashing by repeated messages and r/the_donald is a classic example. Governments have been propagandizing through repeated messaging for decades, it's the same old shit in a barely new coat of paint, and it's being treated as legitimate by neocons who just want a republican in the white house.

They've convinced themselves that trump is one thing and they'll never let anyone show them otherwise no matter what he actually does.

This is exactly the problem. They pretend it's the MSM taking Trump down in a grand conspiracy. Trump takes Trump down on Twitter. Trump undermines his own travel ban on Twitter. Trump praises dictators on Twitter. You'll probably never have a more open view into the president's mind than Trump and that mind is a scary place to anyone who isn't already equally addled.

You do not need the MSM to take down Trump. Just give him his phone.

When people say they are tired of seeing negative coverage of Trump, I can only think, "Where would they get the POSITIVE material from?" Almost everything Trump provides is negative.

Fact is, when Trump gave his first speech before congress and it went well, the press fell all over themselves doing pieces on how "presidential" he was. The coverage was overwhelmingly positive. That's how low the bar has been set! And that goes to show that they WILL give him tons of positive coverage...

... there just has to be something positive for them to cover.

Right now it's idiotic tweets, investigations, and blunders.

Basically, it boils down to garbage in, garbage out.

Fact is, when Trump gave his first speech before congress and it went well, the press fell all over themselves doing pieces on how "presidential" he was.

Exactly. I'd even go so far as to say that the MSM gave him more of a chance than I was willing to, based solely on his track record. TONS of people were hoping that this would be a blessing in disguise. Trump had everything he needed to show the world he was actually a competent leader, but you can't just delegate that part and put your brand on it.

garbage in, garbage out

It's like we literally watching a dumpster on fire headed downhill, directly into a paper and gas plant?

And half the people watching are screaming at the other half to stop being over dramatic and give it a chance because it's never done this before

If America is such a dumpster fire you trump haters think it is, why is the stock market at all time high? I think when I see people like nothing good has happened clearly don't investment in stocks! Plenty of good over in land of investment, dollar is getting stronger, and interest rates are increasing after years of historic lows. All signs of a strengthening economy, something that should be important to you regardless of political affiliation because after all we all have dollars in our bank account.

I think trump himself was the dumpster fire in this hypothetical snowflake

It was a dumpsterfire before Trump was even on the political scene.

Get you head out of your ass, the world does not revolve around Trump.

Why's my head gotta be up my ass? If you could talk like a normal person maybe we could discuss pros and cons. But it seems a lot of people just want to use catch phrase and talk about issues more complex then their understanding so we are reduced to name calling.

Like you said garbage in , garbage out.

Tell me how all major indices, representative of our economy, are at all time highs? While the Dow struggled to pop past 20k in the wanting months of Obama. Fact is since Trump won election all major indices are all up +10%

Aside from social issues that are ever present since the birth of this nation, what leads you to believe it's a dumpster fire? Last time I checked most people choose America, why is that?

They're not "thick headed retards". They're the real paid shills who use the blame-reversal tactic common to military psy-ops.

Rule 10

Trump is one third of the government that has been in power for 6 months and still hasn't had the majority of his appointees confirmed.

If you are trying to conflate Trump with the government that has been in power the last few decades, aka the establishment, then you are full of shit. You are the prime reason this post was needed, to combat your lies.

Trump is one third of the government that has been in power for 6 months and still hasn't had the majority of his appointees confirmed.

Trump hasn't even fucking NOMINATED majority of his appointees, for fucks sake.

If you are trying to conflate Trump with the government that has been in power the last few decades

Absolutely not. However, he is the ultimate key bearer for classified intelligence, which is why his ass is still in office after showing very sensitive intel to the Russians.

Trump hasn't even fucking NOMINATED majority of his appointees, for fucks sake

So you're starting to see how ridiculous it is to claim "TRUMP IS THE GOVERNMENT" like you did in your first post?

However, he is the ultimate key bearer for classified intelligence, which is why his ass is still in office after showing very sensitive intel to the Russians.

Oh look a nice little talking point straight from the MSM, how utterly unsurprising....

Not a Trump supporter btw, just someone who isn't suffering from a media induced "Anti Trump Hysteria" like yourself.

So you're starting to see how ridiculous it is to claim "TRUMP IS THE GOVERNMENT" like you did in your first post?

No, I see that's what you would like to project for anyone else stupid enough to take the bait. He's the one that's supposed to be a great leader, a great delegater. He has the best people. Why the fuck doesn't he appoint them? Because he's incompetent.

That has nothing to do with being an outsider, no matter how many desperate handsprings and backflips you do.

Oh look a nice little talking point straight from the MSM, how utterly unsurprising....

Simply dismissing something because it's in the MSM has become an anti-intellectual blanket talking point that prevents you from even looking any further at it, even thought he sources are reputable, unlike PizzaGate. Since neither you or I are likely doing any investigative reporting, the operative skill is the ability to source information from MULTIPLE places, and develop a good bullshit detector. You've been rolling in shit so long with this blanket "MSM" bullshit that you don't even know what is real anymore.

stop gaslighting bro. The people IN the meeting said nothing was leaked. what are you on about stop gas lighting bro.

No, I see that's what you would like to project for anyone else stupid enough to take the bait. He's the one that's supposed to be a great leader, a great delegater. He has the best people. Why the fuck doesn't he appoint them? Because he's incompetent.

At least you realize he's not "the government" considering he hasn't even had his appointees put in. Also I hate to break it to you, but since I don't support Trump I don't care if you slander him.

Simply dismissing something because it's in the MSM has become an anti-intellectual blanket talking point that prevents you from even looking any further at it, even thought he sources are reputable, unlike PizzaGate

Welcome to /r/conspiracy, where we question the MSM and give credence to the possibility of things like pizzagate. Now that you've made it completely obvious to everyone reading that you are an outsider here, enjoy your stay as you slowly figure out the MSM has been lieing to you for your entire life.

GLHF!

At least you realize he's not "the government" considering he hasn't even had his appointees put in. Also I hate to break it to you, but since I don't support Trump I don't care if you slander him

I'm not validating a single line of your bullshit. He is the government. He can order state secrets to be fucking delivered to him and made unclassified, if he wanted. He is the fucking unfortunately the President of the United States. How the fuck do you misconstrue that in your damaged brain to mean "not the government?" You are ate up.

Half the government is full of Obama appointees and Deep State puppets that are deliberately fighting him and his policies.

"Half the government"

Oh, you mean the 4 conservative supreme court justices, majority in the house and senate, and the presidency, and aside from the justice department, the House and Senate are busy cupping Trump's balls every time he makes an ass out of himself? That deep state?

Seems like you forgot that the Republican establishment hate Trump just as much as the left does, if not even more. Did you miss that whole part of the election where he shit on them just as badly as he did the Dems, or the part where tons of them backed Hillary over him? To think that they protect him or support him with anything but the merest lip service is naive at best. He's their horse into government that they were forced to ride because Jeb Bush bombed, nothing more. Trump is more likely to destroy the Republican Party than anything, which may even be intentional.

The Deep State are the global intelligence services, military industrial complex, globalist think tanks, banks and Wall Street, not the House and Senate. Our elected officials are largely blackmailed and bought by the Deep State to ensure loyalty to the State agenda.

Seems like you forgot that the Republican establishment hate Trump just as much as the left does

They like him just fine. He's just a tool they can use because they know he's not intelligent and easily to manipulate. They just didn't realize the Russians got there first.

How the fuck do you misconstrue that in your damaged brain to mean "not the government?" You are ate up.

You're putting words in my mouth, likely on purpose to fit your misguided angst ridden campaign here.

I will say it once again so your top mind can comprehend it. Trump is ONE THIRD OF THE GOVERNMENT. He is not "THE" government as you stated in your drivel that I've spent way too much time replying to. I don't give a shit about the Republican establishment in the Senate or House, they aren't Trump and they aren't doing his bidding otherwise we'd be rid of Obamacare and have a wall being built by now.

At least you realize he's not "the government"

Putting words in your mouth.

pay attention to what is quoted, you changed the quotes. He's not THE government, he's one third.

I didn't change shit. He's the government. His party is in power and is covering his ass. He certainly isn't a private fucking citizen. He's more of the government than any of you saying he isn't the government will ever be.

bullshit

what I wrote: not "the government"

what you quote me as saying: "not the government"

One means not the entire government, one means not a part of the government at all. You altered my quote to fit your agenda, so Im done replying.

You're using the placement of the fucking quotation marks to try to excuse the fucking fact that you said "not 'the government'" instead of "not the government?" You fucking said exactly what I quoted, which I FUCKING QUOTED IN FULL TRANSPARENCY?

How fucking pathetic.

TRUMP IS THE FUCKING GOVERNMENT!

Um, yeah.

How do you explain backing out of TPP and the Paris Accord when its obvious TPTB had a heart attack about it?

TPP, NAFTA, getting rid of PC and identity politics.

Yay!!!

You know what's killing discussion? Calling anyone who disagrees with you a shill. No matter how much they converse, no matter what they comment elsewhere, if they have a point of view that matches others, they must be a shill. The number of paid political operatives on here is negligible because nobody here matters.

And the idea that people at ShareBlue are just pencil-pushers throwing out random ideas is equally dumb. The people that get hired for jobs working social media for the Democratic party are, shockingly, people that were already posting on social media about the Democratic party. We're not talking about people paid to mention how awesome Oreo cookies are.

Yes, let's pity those who would disrupt organic conversations for money.
/sssssss

You're proving my point.

So when I ask for evidence I am being a shill? Why aren't I getting paid?

I'm all for showing evidence.

Why the fuck are you here defending shills? And you are getting upvoted?! This if anything is a blatant example of how fucked this sub is unless the moderators start taking the shilling head on instead of protecting shills by banning the naming of them.

Defending in the sense of being rational and thinking about how real life works, yes. Defending in the sense of sending them to spam the front page of Reddit, no.

You mean, the shills are here to do exactly what OP is doing? Cause infighting so it disrupts from everything else by creating so much noise it's hard to look at any potentially real conspiracies?

Maybe the shills are the ones who are constantly calling everyone else shills because they don't have anyway to actually discredit their viewpoints.

Rule 10

[removed]

Your account is two hours old, so your comment was removed by the Automoderator.

I manually approved it because I think you made good points.

Since when? Like 2008 when we all knew it then?

5 day old account, posting literal nonsense to get some karma, looks like incorrect sub placement for some of his shit.

Bot?

They're in here.

Yep, because everyone who disagrees with you is definitely a shill.

Of course they are.

Everyone who disagrees is paid to do so, and since you cannot prove it, you can never be wrong!

Sleep tight. Don't let Soros bite.

Conspira ception

Circlejerk is more like it.

A greed

Their tactics are pretty blatant, too. Promote MSM narrative. Raid comments. Upvote comments supporting narrative. Downvote and use logical fallacy/sensationalism against comments countering the brainwashing. Exhaust commenters and force them out. Take over subreddit and commence pro-narrative circle jerk.

Just out of curiosity, how would this look any different than, say, a scenario where a bunch of liberals are suddenly interested in conspiracies (fueled by Trump-Russia) at the same time that a lot of conservatives are growing disheartened and disillusioned with Trump? They'll show up with their 'MSM narrative,' reply to comments, upvote comments they like, downvote the ones they don't, and argue with a dwindling number of conservatives who are less and less likely to put in the effort defending Trump/pizzagate/Seth Rich/what have you.

How can you tell the difference between these two possibilities?

one would require them to accept that people are turning against their narrative (bad)

the other would require them to accept that they are correct, but evil moneyed forces are lying to try to trick them (reinforces current beliefs)

Odd how if you look at the top posts this month, most are pro trump with mostly anti trump comments.

Do you think it'd easier to astro turf posts to the top, or to manipulate the hundreds of comments on every post?

FAKE COMMENTS! ONLY PAID SHILLS HATE TRUMP, HES ONE OF US!!!1!!1!

/s

Odd how if you look at the top posts this month, most are pro trump with mostly anti trump comments.

Do you think it'd easier to astro turf posts to the top, or to manipulate the hundreds of comments on every post?

Easy is one thing, effective is another.

If one is easier than the other then you should expect to see both or neither.

If one is significantly easier but both use the same resources then you should expect to see both,neither or the easier one.

No, if you are trying to achieve a goal, you go with the method that best serves the purpose.

Odd how if you look at the top posts this month, most are pro trump with mostly anti trump comments.

If you see a highly upvoted post seeming to promote position (A), and go into the threads and see that MOST of the highest upvoted comments are ridiculing, deconstructing or otherwise opposed to position (A), it may just be that the entire thread was setup to be a STRAWMAN.

IOW, those that created the post and those that are DESTROYING the position of the post may be one and the same.

More "work", certainly, but also far more effective.

less effective, since most people upvote the thread title and move on. The goal of disinfo isnt to get people to read deeper into things then convince them.

All the verified fake facebook news was provocative picture, headline, a quick article, all on a fake prop news website, then deleted shortly after the damage was done.

That may be the case with MSM, Facebook and many other subs, but the because of the very nature of this sub legit users will read the threads.

It's a different class of audience.

why would they tailor their tactics for a smaller audience that requires more work? The same tactics as every other sub take 75% less work and work 85% as well, and thats what appears to be happening anyway.

So how do you feel about Trump Op?

It's being targeted by both sides, and neither of you are good at it.

This ^{^}

Or trump is just a fucking rich douchebag who keeps doing stupid shit to sabatoge himself. Why are you giving this government official a pass by suggesting there's people out there ruining his presidency, when he's doing a great job of that all by himself....Blindly following authority is not very "redpilled" of you is it?

Exactly!!!

You can't judge Trump based on his words or actions, you need to look at what is in his heart. Haven't you been listening to KellyAnne?

Comey said its all about intent.

You can't judge Trump based on his words or actions, you need to look at what is in his heart. Haven't you been listening to KellyAnne?

Renegotiating NAFTA, getting out of that ridiculous Paris accord and getting us ALL out of the insane TPP (how quickly people forget). Was the best thing that could have happened.

He's not going to be able to renegotiate NAFTA. For some reason, people think Canada and Mexico will voluntarily eat shit on a new trade deal. They won't take all the bad parts without the good parts, just like the US. And please stop floating economic isolationism. It doesn't work.

The Paris Accord was completely non-binding. It wasn't ridiculous. It would have improved our standing if we lived up to it, but it's easier for Trump to pretend it was somehow killing American jobs.

I'm not sure I should waste breath arguing for the TPP on Reddit, but 99% of the criticisms I saw here were bullshit. On top of that, we're letting China eat our lunch in that region now.

So you were for the TPP. I'll stop there.

Yes. Everybody looks at the consequences of doing (and incorrectly I might add), but nobody is looking at the consequences of not doing it.

He hasn't negotiated NAFTA because Canada put him down like the cuck he is. It's funny that 100+ days he hasn't done shit and you still worship him

This.

Wait, is r/conpsiracy now being acccused of being "pro-government?" That's hilarious.

well there is a disconcertingly large effort to shut down critical discussion of the current government (see OP).

critical discussion

No such thing. You could have countless intelligence officials, agencies, countries, reporters all coming to the same conclusions from different (and extensive) research ... or you could call all of them shills and ignore the asshole in the oval office whose incompetence knows no bounds.

Yeah, that's going to work here.

Rule 10

The anti Trump shills are trying to force everyone to succumb to their "Anti Trump Hysteria".

I was going to come in here and say this exact thing. The front page of this subreddit right now is filled with posts on why you should hate Trump, and why /r/conspiracy is no place for anyone who opposes the Deep State's "Russian Collusion" narrative.

They try to spin it like, "Being for Trump is to be pro-government" when the reality is: They're all pro-Deep State. Which is pro-government.

They're trying to masquerade as us long-time users (i.e., us, real posters). But, like all fakers, they get stuff wrong. Like one of them told me that CNN was a legitimate news source, and if I cited something that wasn't from CNN it wasn't real, lol.

What they don't understand is that /r/conspiracy has always been anti-Deep State. It was the place you came to discuss NSA surveillance (when no one else was talking about it). It was the place that was against the Deep State's pro-torture policies. It was the place you visited to confer with other like-minded individuals who expressed concern about the Deep State deposing legitimate democratically-elected governments.

We were always pro-politicians who were against the Deep State. Like Cynthia McKinney, Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich, and, yes . . . even, nominally, Donald Trump (since he ran on a platform that was 92% the same as Ron Paul's).

Now the Deep Staters are in here, telling us that we really want to be at war with Russia, that Russia "hacked our election," that Hillary Clinton is an ethical politician who we should all trust, that State spying on its citizens in good, that elite pedophile rings are fake, that mainstream media sources are valid, uncompromised sources of information, etc.

And, above all, that we should all attack Trump, Ron Paul, Cynthia McKinney, Dennis Kucinich, Gabby Tulsard, etc.

Delet this goyim

The front page of this subreddit right now is filled with posts on why you should hate Trump

Not sure if you're blind or dishonest. This is the front page right now, within 25 minutes or so of your post.

There is exactly one post out of 25 that might be construed as anti-Trump (and even that one is more a complaint about the sub itself than about Trump).

Meanwhile, there are at minimum six that can be construed as pro-Trump, arguably more, or that are arguing against Trump-related criticism of the sub.

So you're either being dishonest about the state of the sub or you're blind to reality. Not sure which.

I was on the front page and referring to threads like this: "This subreddit is NOT pro-Trump. It is anti-Anti-Trump brainwashing. Don't bring your weak MSM narrative in here. You're fucking with the wrong sub."

I'm not sure how that thread serves your point. It's not an anti-Trump thread. Quite the opposite, it's a thread saying we shouldn't listen to anti-Trump people.

Read the top comments. They're all pro-Deep State.

No, they aren't. Once again, you're not presenting an honest view of reality. The top comments:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hma1t/this_subreddit_is_not_protrump_it_is/dizcq29/

A tangent about how we should ignore the media and be angry at Congress, not Trump.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hma1t/this_subreddit_is_not_protrump_it_is/dizddta/

Comments about how much the sub does or does not support Trump. Tangent is focused on the sub.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hma1t/this_subreddit_is_not_protrump_it_is/dizceyx/

Tangent saying there is a smear campaign against Trump.

So the top root comments are a mix, none supporting the Deep State, some critical of the sub, some critical of anti-Trumpers.

The rest of the comments are mixed, yes, there are people critical of Trump all throughout, but should that be surprising? The man is not popular by any measure. He's generated a lot to criticize. And being critical of Trump is not being "pro-Deep State." That's a ridiculous way to twist things.

No, what's absurd is a President who hasn't even gotten his cabinet into place yet (hence he's not yet even a "sitting President," in effect because his people aren't even in place). At this point, more than 6 months into his Presidency, it's unprecedented.

Effectively, he's not even a "sitting President" yet, since they're obstructing him. And running 12 investigations on him before he's even done anything as a method of tying him up and neutralizing his pro-Ron Paul agenda.

I'd love to see peace with Russia and other nations. I'd love to see an audit of the Federal Reserve. I'd love to see more jobs and opportunities for our citizens.

But all these things are being obstructed by the Deep State. And with patent absurdities.

I hate being lied to. And worse: I hate having my intelligence insulted by a bad liar.

Between a pro-Ron Paul Trump and a Deep State running fake news stories every day to take him down, my sympathies are with the pro-Ron Paul President.

If your sympathies are with the Deep State, feel free to let everyone know.

Own it.

Embrace it.

But don't insult ur intelligence by pretending that you're just "holding a sitting President to account".

You can make that argument after he actually has his cabinet in place, and he's actually done something wrong.

You win this thread bro.

Lol @ his ron-Paul agenda. His agenda is anything anti-Obama, whatever enriches himself, and anything else he can rubber stamp from a republican congress.

What was Ron Paul about rolling back internet privacy & bombing Syria?

He hasn't filled out seats because he can't get off his fat ass to nominate people. Christ he's so fucking incompetent, that when he does it ends up like this new Bitch nominated to head the NY federal housing dept. She worked for his son, his campaign, and then lied about her Law Degree. You're rewarded by him if your a sycophant.

Make a list of people Trump has nominated and haven't been approved, then make a list of positions Trump has made no effort to fill (and for kicks, make a list of people associated with him that have had to resign due to scandal.) Which of those lists is longer?

By "scandal" you mean fake unsubstantiated CNN-created charges?

Like the Russian Collusion "scandal"?

Ot the "scandal" of Trump ordering two scoops of ice cream when everyone else got only one?

I'm sure the Attorney General should recuse himself based on the second scoop.

It's a "scandal," after all.

The media told me so.

Here. Let me challenge you with something. We're six months into Trump's presidency with a booming stock market, a falling unemployment rate and no Third World War or concentration camps. (Remember: We were told the sky would fall if Trump became President.)

Give me a list of ACTUAL "bad things" you think he's done.

Not fake media-made-up bullshit.

REAL things he's done.

("Well, Trump still hasn't denied his possible role in the Abraham Lincoln assassination," so it's a scandal and we should have a senate investigation on it.)

I mean ACTUAL substantiated things he REALLY did.

Not "proving a negative" propaganda.

("Prove that you DIDN'T collide with Russia!")

No, give me something he ACTUALLY did that you think constitutes "The Sky is Falling. We're all gonna die now!"

Do you think that no one will notice that you failed to actually respond to the substance of his comment?

Here's an upvote! Yes, as a matter of fact I did fail to respond to the substance of your comment.

Reason: Laziness.

Sheer mental laziness.

And don't get me wrong: You articulated your position well. You demonstrated intelligence, character and spirit.

But I took one look at all of your adduced points . . . and proceeded directly to a pornography website, where I watched lady sumo wrestlers doing jumping jacks.

of his comment?

...it's a third person pronoun. Did you really just go on this crazy rant because you don't understand that 'his' doesn't equal 'my'?

So go post something yourself instead of just whining.

Errrr, I'm not whining. I'm pointing out that his statement is incorrect.

Speaking of whining:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hm4h2/hello_conspiracy_you_are_being_targetted_enmasse/dizi4jr/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hk9f5/the_democratic_party_is_going_to_throw_every/dizhoy7/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hjnf7/rconspiracy_is_the_donald_20_narrative_is_being/dizhdsx/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hjnf7/rconspiracy_is_the_donald_20_narrative_is_being/dizhbbm/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hjnf7/rconspiracy_is_the_donald_20_narrative_is_being/dizh8i8/?context=3

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6hjnf7/rconspiracy_is_the_donald_20_narrative_is_being/dizh392/?context=3

You sure do whine a lot about what other people post, don't you?

Stop spending time looking through my history. Go post something you fell would be more appropriate for the sub if you truly care.

Read the comments in each thread, and pay close attention to what is upvoted. The shills are taking over, this subs userbase didn't use to parrot the MSM's talking points and mock conspiracy theories.

Same thing happened in /r/politics around the end of the primary. Suddenly the comments didn't match the previous tone of the sub, nor the tone of the articles that were still beign upvoted to the top. Over time the previous posters left out of frustration, and the shill takeover was complete. Then the upvoted articles started to make the tone of the new commenters.

Wait, so you're suggesting that there's shills that use upvote bots and are taking over this place, but they let the front page be filled with pro-Trump and anti-Hillary/DNC posts and conspiracies just so they can upvote some comments disproving the narrative?

The only bot-ring uncovered here recently was pushing pro-Trump and Seth Rich conspiracy posts to the front page and filling the posts with astroturfed comments.

The bots were also pushing Pro-Le Penn, Anti-Macron stuff, AntiMcCain stuff the day he said Putin was more dangerous than ISIS. That is why I think they were Kremlinbots instead of just T_D bots.

There's no other reason you can think of why the nature of political discussion would change at the end of a primary?

Fucking hell.

You're right, I have noticed this too. And you're downvoated hard.

Op has more posts to t_D than anywhere else by far. I'd go with blind and dishonest.

(since he ran on a platform that was 92% the same as Ron Paul's)

This isn't even remotely true. Trump campaigned on continued drone bombings, continued surveillance, expanded Social Security, infrastructure spending, building a border wall, increased/aggressive policing (including reviving "stop and frisk"), etc.

Here's Ron Paul in his own words, explaining why "there is absolutely no meaningful difference" between Trump and Hillary.

When Trump stood on that debate stage and was savaged by everyone for suggesting that we have peace in the world, and that we work with our perceived enemies, THAT'S what I mean by running on a Ron Paul platform.

When Trump openly talked about The Deep State (at a time when no one else was), and the need to "drain the swamp," THAT'S what I mean by running on a Ron Paul platform.

When Trump said that he was in favor of auditing the Federal Reserve, THAT'S what I mean by running on a Ron Paul platform.

Hillary, by contrast, was up on the stage, treating six wars at the same time. Recklessly ramping up anti-Russian rhetoric (like no candidate in history had done before her). Trump was (in some bizarro twist) the peace candidate. He was the one saying that the Iraq War was waged on a lie. And he was attacked savagely by his own party for it.

And he never waffled or backed down.

That's when he earned my vote.

trump ran a ross perot campaign. his platform is a copy of the reform party platform even.

BUT unlike perot. trump and his family were very ready to be threatened.

Certainly, there was overlap in how both Trump and Paul ran as "anti-establishment" candidates who challenged deeply entrenched power/corruption within our system. But that's vastly different from the original claim of "a platform that was 92% the same as Ron Paul's."

Also, I'd argue that Paul and the other names you mentioned (Kucinich, Gabbard, etc) all have a documentable history of fighting for their convictions (both through legislation and activism), and had written/spoken extensively about their philosophies. Their words translated to action.

Trump words didn't correlate to a history of action. In fact, many of Trump's stances/claims shifted from day to day, and he didn't have any history of fighting corruption (in fact, by his own admission, he benefited from it).

So, even though it was clear to me that the Deep State (the real power in this country) wanted Trump to lose by any means necessary (even if it meant flogging a false narrative), I'm still deeply uncomfortable with seeing Trump categorized alongside those other names. Many of us in the conspiracy community were deeply skeptical of him then, and remain so now.

Of course Trump didn't have a "history of action". He wasn't a professional politician before he ran for President (as Paul, Kucinich and Gabbard were).

I'm a former Ron Paul voter. The only point at which I diverged from Trump was on his casual and easy permissiveness of torture. That disgusted me.

And that's why I said that he didn't run on a pure Ron Paul platform.

But other than that, the two men are a shocking amount of policy overlap.

As someone else said, Trump was akin to Ross Perot. But he was really a mixture of Perot and Paul.

Of course Trump didn't have a "history of action". He wasn't a professional politician before he ran for President (as Paul, Kucinich and Gabbard were).

Right, but he didn't have a history of writing, activism, funding anti-establishment/anti-corruption causes, bringing awareness to political corruption, etc. That's why I said "action", not just "legislation." I don't count talking about Obama's birth certificate as "activism"

But other than that, the two men are a shocking amount of policy overlap.

I think my original post disproves that claim. Yes, they overlap some, but the differences--at least to me--are far starker than the similarities. I mean, Trump was pushing for broadening surveillance powers, having a registry of Muslims, continuing unilateral drone strikes (in addition to all the policies I mentioned originally)...all authoritarian strongman behavior that a libertarian like Paul would never support (and indeed, Paul has repeatedly and strongly criticized Trump).

On the_Donald, people were busting out his writings from 1988 that demonstrate that his positions have stayed remarkably static.

When Trump stood on that debate stage and was savaged by everyone for suggesting that we have peace in the world, and that we work with our perceived enemies,

didnt he say he was going to commit war crimes by intentionally bombing the families of combatants?

Yeah, I think those were his exact words: "I'm going to commit war crimes . . . and grab women's genitals against their will."

The "against the will" was totally said. The media says so. (Just don't check the transcripts.)

We should all rely not on what was actually said, but on the media's version of it.

"I, Donald J. Trump, plan to be Hitler. I will throw every Mexican in a concentration camp and execute innocent people."

Well, we're six months into his administration.

No concentration camps yet.

No unauthorized pussy-grabbing.

No collapsed stock market.

(I'm still waiting for the sky to fall, as I was assured it would, if got elected.)

The Media does talk about obamas drones, Doesnt like it, and he isnt intentionally killing innocent people.

Trump said he WANTED to do it. When considering war crimes intent is a big part of it, whether or not it matters to the victims.

When sharing information with allies, there is a process. it doesnt happen to the ambassador in casual conversation, it happens between intel agencies.

So the media has headlines calling Obama a war criminal?

Link them.

Fucking rekt him lol

Are you ips?

Upvoted for exposure, but paid by whom?

Which 'FUCK WHITEY" shadow lord is paying me to post this comment?

And can you ask him to hurry up and sign the check? My Citigroup shares don't pay for themselves y'know.

Says a 6 day old rando account...

I'm sure his intentions are pure, he's acting out of genuine concern, and has nothing that would expose ulterior motives on his other account (which totally doesn't exist). /s

Rule 10

holy shit this sub is losing its fucking mind over these "paid shills" from both sides. like seriously. calm down. no ones being paid to do shit here because it would sway the minds of such few people. everyone keeps using this excuse to deny that people have a different opinion than theirs.

No man, it's vital that the userbase here be manipulate....AHAHAHAHA I can't anymore.

lol whut. You can't be fucking serious.

https://np.reddit.com/r/shills/comments/4kdq7n/astroturfing_information_megathread_revision_8/?st=j1y5la6q&sh=75667764

You are blatantly lying.

ShareBlue, Correct the Record, David Brock, Media Matters, all of these shilling organizations and their owner have been outed. We even know about their stated plans to astroturf social media sites like Reddit and Facebook because they even had a fucking press release stating it!

If someone tells you to write off arguments without thinking about them by calling people shills, That person is a shill attempting to recruit you.

OP wants this discussion shut down. He wants people that disagree with him labeled and shut out.

And on top of it all, OP has a brand new account.

I hoped people aren't stupid enough to fall for the 3 day old accounts telling them that anyone that questions right wing media is a shill, but r/Conspiracy has a history of eating these up.

too many are going to be stupid enough to fall for it unfortunately

Yeah really, the OP is telling this sub to ignore a conspiracy that seems to actually have legs, all based on ad hominems against the people supporting the conspiracy theory. Meanwhile he's clearly pro-Trump, a brand new account, and yet the people who want to investigate ties with Russia are the shills?

Where do I get my check?

Honestly this sounds like something a paid Trump shill would say.

/u/ephedre is a very active /r/politics poster. He is probably not here in good faith.

It's true. I think it's the most frustrating irony that you people have an actual conspiracy that goes to the highest levels of the American government, and instead you're supporting that government. The world hands you people a juicy, real conspiracy and for once you can stand up and say "we were right about the government" and be the heroes who everyone now sees were right all along, and you turn it down to support a burgeoning fascist.

There's no point to conspiracy theories if you can't take the truth when it's finally on your side.

The mental gymnastics this sub has gone through in the last year is maddening.

Trump can do no wrong in your minds. I have literally not seen a single community-led criticism. Ya'll are too worried about the media conglomerate boogeyman doing actual fucking reporting on this dumpster fire of an administration.

There sure are a lot of pro-Trump threads this morning.

Pro-government is being used because suddenly this sub is with the establishment. Trump is part of the Globalists - he even allowed one into his family. As well as doing things (albeit all sloppy like) on behalf of Globalists.

Also, these latest batch of threads is clearly gas lighting; "I'm not a shill - YOU are a shill!!"

Let one into his family? Is Globalist synonymous with Jew?

It always has been.

Idk. Alex Jones rants about "Globalists" but seems to never have anything bad to say about Israel or Jews.

Well AJ is a stark raving loony. I see the word "globalist" doing a lot of the work the word "Jew" has historically done for these people.

He's not a loony, he's an actor playing a role, just like anyone else in front of a camera.

because jews buy boner pills and surivial kits too

Then you haven't listened to him.

Should we listen to his lawyer?

http://www.businessinsider.com/lawyer-alex-jones-infowars-playing-character-acting-2017-4

According the Jones himself he was talking about Jones putting on satire skits like dressing up as the joker. Or do you have the full, unedited transcript of the court hearing? Oh, you don't? Didn't think so.

That is spun so hard it could change the rotation of the earth. What you've said has no basis in reality.

The actual quote is that judging Alex Jones on his performance on Infowars would be like judging Jack Nicholson as a person on his performance as The Joker. “He’s playing a character,” Wilhite said of Jones. “He is a performance artist.”

It's theatre dude. You might as well be reading tabloids. He's a shock-jock relying on people like you and your confirmation bias to sell ad space. Just like CNN, just like MSNBC, just like Fox News and Blaze and the rest. It's all theatre.

So... no source is what you're saying.

Globalist is exclusive to the Establishment.

Trump doesn't give a flying fuck about you or anyone who voted for him. He wanted in on the inner circle (again, the Establishment). He was only worth millions. Now he is well on his way to billions (like his buddy Putin).

To get into the inner circle, he offered his daughter and became an agent of the Establishment (specifically Putin's puppet).

The US has done this to 3rd world leaders (who become millionaires over night once 'democracy' is established in their countries). And the Russians have done it to us.

Hmm...thought he was already a billionaire. "He offered his daughter up"....like some kind of sacrifice to the globalists by allowing her to marry a Jew? I don't get it.

Trump doesn't give a flying fuck about you or anyone who voted for him.

Agreed.

Now he is well on his way to billions (like his buddy Putin).

Putin may be the richest man alive, but I think this is more due to having access to the Russian Oligarchs, psychotronics- and all the other high-tech that the KGB had, and shady business dealings.

I don't think he made a blood sacrifice to anyone...or married a daughter off to a dreaded Jew.

Hmm...thought he was already a billionaire. "He offered his daughter up"....like some kind of sacrifice to the globalists by allowing her to marry a Jew? I don't get it.

He is not a billionaire. His fortune before the elections was estimated to about $200M to $300M.

The same way a merchant offered his daughter to royalty to marry into a higher class of society in the past, is the same way Trump offered his daughter to the Establishment to enter into it. Same practice, different times.

Hmm...thought he was already a billionaire.

nah, this is one reason why he wont release his tax returns.

A funny story about trump, when he was going to be roasted on that comedy central roast show, the one thing you couldnt make fun of: That he wasnt as rich as says he is

http://www.vulture.com/2016/08/donald-trump-roast-off-limits-joke.html

Anthony Jeselnik, one of Trump’s roasters, also noted the same thing during a conversation with Joan Rivers on In Bed With Joan back in 2013. “Donald Trump’s rule was, don’t say I have less money than I say I do,” Jeselnik said. “Make fun of my kids, do whatever you want, just don’t say I don’t have that much money.”

why would trump be sensitive about people saying that? cuz its true.

plus hundreds of millions in foreign debt is a bad look for the president.

Funny.

weird that you can make fun of him being attracted to his daughter (where are the pizzagaters?) but not that he isnt as rich as he says he is right?

No. The Globalists pretend there's a connection in order to shutdown those who disagree with them.

he even allowed one into his family

In other words, he let his daughter choose her husband. That's crazy, I know.

It was a brokered and agreed upon 'union'.

Trump is playing with the Russians to get into US politics and he offered his daughter to get into the Globalist's game.

"Whenever you see a shill attacking conspiracy using the phrase 'pro-government' you know they are a paid shill"

You KNOW this? You KNOW it without a doubt? There can't possibly be people that just naturally disagree with you, but everyone that does is a paid shill? So when people defend the SITTING PRESIDENT and ignore any conspiracies around them, they aren't being "pro-government"? Do you want to explain that to me? Because I don't see how blindly defending THE SITTING PRESIDENT isn't being pro-government.

False equivalence, you are just biased.

You are not pro-goverment or pro-Trump for being against the main stream media narrative or the obvious smear campaigns (how is that russia collusion-thing going, btw? Comey said he could not find any collusion from Trump and that what started it from NYT was a lie.)

Harvard Report: President Trump ‘Received Unsparing Coverage’ by the Media, Mostly Negative

Outrageous Harvard Study: 80% of Trump Coverage Was Negative During First 100 Days

Harvard study: Media has been largely negative on Trump

You know, the percentage of the coverage that was negative doesn't really prove anything. Maybe if he'd stop fucking up and pissing people off, the coverage would stop being negative.

Or are you suggesting that the media should positively cover his negative actions so as not to make people feel bad?

Also ironic that you brought up the russia collusion-thing, because most of the US population seems to think it's going pretty well, for people that aren't Trump supporters that is.

It's both. You're caught in the middle of a war between shill factions.

Enjoy.

I use the word pro-gov sometimes to describe a legitimate group of people...

ps: this is the kind of garbage that is lecturing you: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/6erjjd/rscience_stands_with_the_paris_climate_agreement/dict9r8/ because everything is always about FUCK WHITEY!!! when you get down to brass tacks.

Eh, what? OP would you care to explain what you meant by this?

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This poor sub used to be so great to come to. It has been fucking ruined. I hope we can actually get back to conspiracies at some point. Like real ones, involving the government, no matter what fucking letter is next to their name. They are all bad, if people see things differently that doesn't mean they are shills. Fuck it, not sure why I'm even bothering. My favorite sub is doomed.

Hello, new account.

How do you know they are paid?

Because obviously you'd have to be paid to dislike God Emperor

Pro-government sounds like newspeak. 'Progov" can be happily confused with "progressive."

When used against an opponent, it's an insult; when said of a friend, it's a compliment.

There's no anti-Trump shills here, although I'd believe there's probably trump shills that immigrated from the Donald. I do believe someone is trying to distrupt and split apart this subreddit though. Fuck Donald Trump, fuck Hillary, fuck the Republicans and fuck the Democrats.

Posts on this sub should be non-partisan and the overwhelming majority have been blatantly pro-trump. I'm fucking tired of it.

Aaaaand there goes the unsubscribe button. Great job keeping this neutral and not a t_d suckfest, mods. Kill yourselves. Since i'll be banned for triggering, i'll be back here right after Trump is impeached to laugh and jack off.

If I'm a paid shill, where the fuck is my check?!

Right? This is the sort of employee treatment I'd expect from Trump, not whoever our boss is

Maybe our boss is Trump

Maybe the shills are coming from inside the house!

Lets not forget all the pro-trump shills here. Because there are a lot of them

Pro government= pro trump lol

Redditor for 6 days......

i don't frequent VOAT or the CHANs.. do these tactics also exist there as prominently? during election period we saw email leaks that showed infiltration of these sites, including reddit. are the other sites and forums as disrupted as what we are seeing here?

Obviously people cant be anti-Trump without being shills

What a lazy fucking argument.

OP is telling us to dismiss an argument without question simply because he said so. Who's the fucking shill?

OP has a 6 day old account and is telling us how to think. Propaganda much?

It seems to me that the OPs thesis was that the "pro-government" talking point in specific was astroturfing, not all disagreement with Trump. And that it is you who is lazily attacking a strawman.

And that it is you who is lazily attacking a strawman.

Gatekeeping arguments now I see.

I do think its fucked up that /r/conspiracy is becoming more and more accepting of the people in power.

How on Earth do you imagine that pointing out a simple and obvious logical fallacy would be a gatekeeping argument?

I'm as anti-establishment as they come. Not trusting authority does not excuse poor critical thought.

I'm as anti-establishment as they come.

But if you said anti government then you are obviously a shill.

Just like OP said.

Nope, that's again you attempt to put strawman words in someone else's mouth.

The OP was referring specifically to the talking point that any argument against an anti-trump narrative be smeared as being pro-government.

Non lazy? You mean by saying that being opposed to the government means you're a shill.

That's a dumb argument

Did you think 3rd time would be the charm for the Strawman? It's getting dusty.

That is a dumb argument, you're right. It's a good thing that no one but you is making it.

Your discussions would be a lot more productive if you responded to what people were actually saying, not the neutered and twisted straw you generate because it is easy to defeat.

Great chat. Have a good weekend

I'm glad that you found it edifying, I endeavor only to be of service.

Pretty much the definition of a mental midget who cant defend their positions

What a great response! Now if youre done let the adults talk and go play with your fidget spinner.

you misread my comment.

You accidentally commented completely on-point ;)

calling people shills by default for having antitrump positions is the definition of not being able to defend your position. I dont see how an intellectually honest person could interpret it any other way

But that wasn't the OP's argument, you are misrepresenting his position. Not a good thing to do in the same breath as speaking of intellectual honesty.

youre right, he is being more specific.

Calling people shills by default for calling defenders of the president "progovt" is still lazy and not defending any position.

the point still stands even if I was overly broad before.

How do you think one should handle a coordinated campaign to shut down dissent by pushing talking points?

I don't think lazy or not lazy really come into play when you are calling a spade a spade. I see great utility in drawing attention to a tactic that only serves to shut down dissent.

Thank you for engaging with what the poster was actually saying.

'shill' implies that the people holding that opinion are not organic, and so should be identified as paid liars. People can hold that opinion organically however, in fact it seems to be a quite reasonable position to hold

You didn't respond to or engage with anything I said. Instead you abandoned the thread of the discussion in order to shift the goal posts. This is not arguing in good faith.

And you can be pro trump and anti government

Sure just I like I could (For example) be pro Hillary and anti government, right?

Or pro bank and anti government, right?

Anybody that thinks Trump isn't an idiot is wrong..but anybody that thinks there is not the most blatant propaganda by the MSM is wrong as well.

It's like the perfect storm. Trump would still be stupid if the media did not give him shit..but if he was not stupid they would still give him more shit than any other president.

nah he makes it so easy. All you have to do to slander him is read his tweets verbatim and provide context

You just attacked a conspiracy using the world "pro-government"

People get banned for even typing the word shill here yet this thread stays up? Is OP banned?

George Soros put $20m towards the pro-Clinton campaign. https://www.opensecrets.org/overview/topindivs.php

in 2016, the Koch brothers organized donations of almost $1b. http://www.prwatch.org/news/2016/05/13107/koch-candidates-2016-revealed

You tell me where the paid shills are coming from.

How your post hasn't been removed for witch hunting is beyond me.

how the hell is this whole post not a violation of rule 10? selective enforcement of rules here? color me surprised.

Hello conspiracy, feel free to make up your own minds.

Whenever you see a shill using the phrase "anti-trump shill" you know they are a paid shill.

See the problem?

Lots of shills for the left and right. This is news?

Most conspiracies are actually corruption, and in cases of corruption the government is usually not the one pulling the strings.

So, at least in theory, a well functioning transparent government can be an ally in fighting corruption and preventing such conspiracies from taking place.

So when someone says "pro-government" it is important to understand what they mean. Is it a blind faith in the government? Or is it faith in a well functioning transparent government acting as a check on powerful/undemocratic private interests.

Thank you for this subtle point. The more we paint in broad strokes, the more details we obscure.

A shill is just a whore.

They're all a bunch of whores.

Both sides flood this sub with shills, and both sets of shills are useless scumfuck losers.

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/betternews] hello conspiracy, you are being targetted en-masse by paid anti-trump shills sharing a custom designed talking point: "pro-government" - whenever you see a shill attacking conspiracy using the phrase "pro-government" you know they are a paid shill

^{If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)}

Are you saying I can be anti-Trump and paid for it? Sign me up!

How interesting thst you only feel compelled to protect the masses from one type of paid propaganda.

I'll write absolutely anything on the internet for pay. Where can I get one of these jobs?

too many are going to be stupid enough to fall for it unfortunately

Of course Trump didn't have a "history of action". He wasn't a professional politician before he ran for President (as Paul, Kucinich and Gabbard were).

I'm a former Ron Paul voter. The only point at which I diverged from Trump was on his casual and easy permissiveness of torture. That disgusted me.

And that's why I said that he didn't run on a pure Ron Paul platform.

But other than that, the two men are a shocking amount of policy overlap.

As someone else said, Trump was akin to Ross Perot. But he was really a mixture of Perot and Paul.

Yeah really, the OP is telling this sub to ignore a conspiracy that seems to actually have legs, all based on ad hominems against the people supporting the conspiracy theory. Meanwhile he's clearly pro-Trump, a brand new account, and yet the people who want to investigate ties with Russia are the shills?

Funny.

Right? This is the sort of employee treatment I'd expect from Trump, not whoever our boss is

Fucking rekt him lol

You know, the percentage of the coverage that was negative doesn't really prove anything. Maybe if he'd stop fucking up and pissing people off, the coverage would stop being negative.

Or are you suggesting that the media should positively cover his negative actions so as not to make people feel bad?

Also ironic that you brought up the russia collusion-thing, because most of the US population seems to think it's going pretty well, for people that aren't Trump supporters that is.

Yes. Everybody looks at the consequences of doing (and incorrectly I might add), but nobody is looking at the consequences of not doing it.

If America is such a dumpster fire you trump haters think it is, why is the stock market at all time high? I think when I see people like nothing good has happened clearly don't investment in stocks! Plenty of good over in land of investment, dollar is getting stronger, and interest rates are increasing after years of historic lows. All signs of a strengthening economy, something that should be important to you regardless of political affiliation because after all we all have dollars in our bank account.