r/conspiracy: Can we get a bot that identifies bots?

Nope hahaha I never did that but that actually is another shill tactic to to get people banned so this question follows; Why are you acting like a shill?

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Because I don't follow the dominant narrative, obsessing over pizza, I am a shill?

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

You are drawing out arguments endlessly.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

I'm asking you how a shill acts. Are shills Marxists who play Xbox sometimes and watch Curb Your Enthusiasm while some dudes fill in your in-ground pool? Because that's what is happening now.

n/a NotAnotherDownvote 2017-06-23

Even in the scenario that their aren't bots what could be lost by trying to identify them? You trying to concern troll and counter the idea of searching for bots is the very thing that is suspicious. WGAF what your interests are. Shill or no shill, you're fighting a worthwhile cause.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Holy christ. Show me one instance of bots used on this subreddit. No one can show me proof.

I am not concern trolling. I am actually concerned because I have been a victim of several witch hunts because I refuse to bow down to the god emperor, which is the problem.

The only people i see hunting shills are the donald blokes and that's that, mattress man.

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

he is now.

also you avoided my question. [classic bot move]

Who does it help by keeping bots anonymous?

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

It helps you become smarter and learn how to defeat the robots.

As someone who had several users here attempt to fish my IP, I don't take kindly to witch hunts.

How can you prove it's a bot and please, again, after avoiding this every post I've made, show me proof of the bots.

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

It helps you become smarter and learn how to defeat the robots.

So the inability to identify a bot will help you to defeat them? Can you elaborate?

Give me a few minutes to compile some relevent 'proof' posts from the past months on this sub. I invite any human lurkers to contribute.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

I'm trying to sound illogical. Is it working?

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

It is.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

I'll be here waiting for your response, boo.

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Didn't think so. Have a nice day spreading more fake news than an army of Hillary bots bro

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Thought so. No proof.

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Where's your proof? Oh, it doesn't exist

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Nice proof.

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Still none?

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Makes thread alleging bots. Has no proof. Sounds like botgate to me. We should get Seth rich on it

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Where's your proof? Done compiling it yet?

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Can you link me to the source of this ok?

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a Ignix 2017-06-23

I posted this in another thread about MAT, I'll recap:

/r/marchagainsttrump uses bots to push posts and submissions as evidenced in these links. You have really fucking questionable narrative as you are downplaying and denying manipulation here on reddit.

More people need to be informed of these kinds of organizations.

Take a look at this informative post in /r/shills about the different players:

https://np.reddit.com/r/shills/comments/4kdq7n/astroturfing_information_megathread_revision_8/

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n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

I meant on r conspiracy.

Is it true the person that started that sub was once part of the Donald? A mod or something. I remember reading it in passing on a thread here. I'm going to do a search on the computer later

I'll look through these though. Thanks for the info. Looking forward to your reply.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

https://www.reddit.com/r/EnoughTrumpSpam/comments/5ur3v9/leaked_messages_show_creator_of/

I was right.

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n/a ABrilliantDisaster 2017-06-23

A friendly reminder to all Real People: do not use the argument "because someone doesn't agree with you....etc." if you wish to be noted as a Real Person.

This added to a list of other things Real People should not reiterate over and over and over if they wish to remain noted as Real People.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Thanks for your input.

Another note for real people: just because someone doesn't agree with you doesn't mean that "user" is a bot.

Boop beep.

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

It had multiple other posts making it seem like a legitimate user into conspiracies. Only nonsense it spouted was discrediting ae911truth.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

What are you talking about.

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

Im terrible at posting comments as replies to the correct comment. This was a second part to a previous comment. I have encountered bot accounts that make their own posts and basically pay for operation through ad revenues to attached videos. They deflect and discredit and ad hominem.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Yeah it gets confusing in mobile. At least for me.

Can you link me to examples of this on r conspiracy?

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

If i knew how i would. I didnt see evidence i just joined the chat about it and brought up my own experience that happened just yesterday.

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

Also, as soon as i called it out, the post was removed and i was banned from r/911truth for bullying. I challenged it to a scientific debate and claimed it would deflect my request. It did.

n/a matheasysolutions 2017-06-23

wow.... you just never give up. Why did you delete all your comments from r/911truth then? Also you still haven't "watched my video" ;)

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

Speak of the devil

n/a matheasysolutions 2017-06-23

We know your tactics

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

I call out bullshit when I find it. Whats wrong with that?

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

I discovered disinfo bots on r/911truth telling me to watch videos by judy wood and her spacebeams. It would constantly deflect or claim everything i said as government disinfo. I think the goal is to discredit ae911truth while simultaneously paying for their operation through trafficked ad revenue. I was immediately banned from /911truth after that post. I came to this conclusion as it could not tell me what basic science degree it had or converse any of the science. Deflect and traffic to the "just watch the video."

n/a ABrilliantDisaster 2017-06-23

Bots repeat their lines like this in a way that would never be organic thought process in real people. One can't conclude that piles of actual people came to a simultaneous and identical "original" thought that they all express to counter certain topics.

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

I couldnt tell for the longest time. I really thought I was dealing with an idiot.

n/a IpsumProlixus 2017-06-23

Im proud of myself for figuring it out on my own. Then I saw this thread about it! Sanity restored.

n/a Ignix 2017-06-23

I posted this in another thread about MAT, I'll recap:

/r/marchagainsttrump uses bots to push posts and submissions as evidenced in these links. You have really fucking questionable narrative as you are downplaying and denying manipulation here on reddit.

More people need to be informed of these kinds of organizations.

Take a look at this informative post in /r/shills about the different players:

https://np.reddit.com/r/shills/comments/4kdq7n/astroturfing_information_megathread_revision_8/

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n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Hey I got it now. Thanks though. Any research on the Donald? Or any trump themed subs?

n/a LightBringerFlex 2017-06-23

Anything is possible.

n/a -SandorClegane- 2017-06-23

It's kind of brilliant if you think about it.

Where better to turn loose a bunch of bot accounts than /r/conspiracy ?

What's that? The sub for tinfoil crackpots is claiming they were infiltrated by bots? That's hilarious! Ok, back to /r/all I go.

It's like hiding in plain site.

n/a ConspiracyAccount 2017-06-23

What's the rubric for determining what is and is not a bot?

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

u/ferfrendongles is a cool member. He and I seem to not get along but I think it is because we both think the other is a shill.

Using his method, having a bot do it, seems like it could be powerful. If you publish that, we could then possibly import it into RES to mark those accounts.

My worry though are the false positives. People on mobile might trip as false positive because of their fast reply time as they are in app and see instant notification of messages.

Also a worry would be adaptive bots. Bots that don't read their messages right away, don't click on links. Etc.

Maybe we could somehow use google human verification? Likely not. Maybe it adds trouble as it reduces anonymity.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

He was banned from Reddit for it. Super cool user.

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

Wait, what? Lol, certainly that can't be true. Was it for something dumb, like admitting he uses alts, which I think is against TOS. Seems most do, just don't admit it.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

it sure did happen.

It wasn't for alts according to a top minds post. I saw a mod post about it, too.

Basically, he would contact actual users and start making wild claims. The spam filter opened the messages immediately. He already has another name, which I believe was reported as well. It's in a top minds post.

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

Hmm, maybe the blazye links were seen as doxxing attempts, and got hit for that. Weird times.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

He was attempting to dox people. That's exactly what he was doing. He was making a "list of shills"

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

Scary that he was making a list of shills? He was clever in trying to find bots. He and I butted heads many times, but because we both thought the other was a shill.

As for doxxing, I am sure Reddit sells our IPs to whomever wants to pay.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Oh ok. This is fine.

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

Atleast he was trying. Who knows. Thanks for the info, pal.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Haha trying to stalk people.

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

He was attempting to dox people. That's exactly what he was doing. He was making a "list of shills"

doxxing is exposing public identity. by collecting IPs he was only slightly getting into this territory. what he was really doing was, as you accurately point out, making a list of shills. that's not doxxing. that's making a list of shills.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

He was sharing IP addresses with a forum of 400k users. Luckily he shared a shitload of Reddit IP addresses rather than the users, though actual doxxing wasn't far behind.

There's several users he's done this to. There's more evidence of that than there being bots on this board. If you could, find me some examples. I personally can't find anything that would be considered evidence that shills and or bots are even on here.

I honestly think this place is so backwards, they wouldn't even bother.

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

A list of shills is a great idea only a shill would think it wasn't.

Are you a shill??

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Man, the overlords of this subreddit should have done something about this months ago. You guys are incredibly paranoid.

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

So what you are saying is that you aren't a regular user but have recently become an defender of institutionalised child trafficking and peadophilia?

If I were you what would I tag u/HomieBhaBha as?

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Robot Marxist boop beep

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

Cultural Marxism is nothing to be proud of

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

That's your opinion. If I don't agree, am I a shill?

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

It doesn't make you a shill but it makes you a fascist which is almost as bad.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Ok, fam. Read up. Then report back who the fash is.

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

I just said it was you by supporting cultural marxism no need to report back.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

You've never read Marx, nor his comrades, nor the fine lineage of thinkers his work has created.

Bet you did not see that coming

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

No I did not see that coming because it has nothing to do with being a cultural marxist fascist. I am done with you.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Not the first who got served by me today and not the last, I'm sure. Good day.

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

Rekt

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

You never read Marx. You're regurgitating.

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

What does reading Marx doctrine have to do with cultural Marxism?

They are not connected only by name.

n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-06-23

There's been a few people who've made that claim around here, that they have "lists". They always say it in the most ominous way too.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Kind of like

Hey, I'm following people on the internet that support Killary still.

Do they think she's going to be president or something.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Someone asked me what they should tag me as today.

I told them Marxist Robot boop beep. Might be in this thread. I'm not sure.

n/a silentmonkeys 2017-06-23

If this is following the same script that I've seen play out over and over on reddit, a bot operator caught in ferfrendogles dragnet fired off a battery of furious complaints at the appropriate people at both reddit and blazye. As always, reddit took the path of least resistance, deleted the post, threw ferfrendogles out and double-padlocked the doors. Blazye didn't march in lockstep, and then - as noted in a comment in the original thread - this happened:

Apologies for the recent down time. Blasze suffered an attack after a user tracked some individuals that did not want to be tracked. However, the links are still live. Blasze will never remove content that its users create. We are now back with a completely re-written website!

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

He was banned from Reddit for it. Super cool user.

madness..raises a good point though..if another forum of vetted users is created it'll have to be on a different platform..voat it up

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Yeah, that's the good point. Different platform. Not the whole "guy acts like a psycho, let's tone it down and actually research things that might not fit my personal worldview".

You can post about holocaust denial and pedo rings all you want over there. Seems like a win.

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

Yeah, that's the good point. Different platform. Not the whole "guy acts like a psycho, let's tone it down and actually research things that might not fit my personal worldview".

You can post about holocaust denial and pedo rings all you want over there. Seems like a win.

I think you're conflating the issue of "validity of opinion" with the issue of "who is a shill or a bot". I was addressing the latter not the former.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

The "validity of opinion" is what leads people to believe that users are shills or bots. It's the main reason. I've been accused several times for asking for proof. All I want is to read the source and form an opinion. But I'm a shill.

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

The "validity of opinion" is what leads people to believe that users are shills or bots. It's the main reason. I've been accused several times for asking for proof. All I want is to read the source and form an opinion. But I'm a shill.

Nah that's an overgeneralization. Bots are bots because they conform to certain limited interactions. Shills conform to talking points. Both can't scale their effect in a conversational way before outing themselves. If we want to filter out bots we have to filter out people who pass the Turing test. If we want to filter out shills we have to filter out by opinion/behaviour. The former is way easier to do and reduces the set so that performing the latter is thus made much easier. Either way, if we're using a single platform to keep 2 different sandboxes (unvetted, vetted) then this introduces the potential of coercion by the platform itself. Better to have heterogeneity of platform for sandboxing, to mitigate that concern.

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

So oddly the account used by the guy that figured the bot issue out is suspended. Anyone know why? u/ferfrendongles

n/a Lord__Buckethead 2017-06-23

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6irdd7/were_going_to_have_to_ask_ourselves_as_a_country/dj8q3wl/

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

Thank you sir, I had no idea of the back office drama his efforts had caused.

n/a Lord__Buckethead 2017-06-23

u/TheDonglesofFerf is a new account they made. Here's a deleted post that got even more harassment filled.

It was all much like people who look at their router's firewall logs, see all the background noise of the internet, and become convinced that hundreds of people around the world are trying to hack them.

n/a Evil1tx 2017-06-23

A very good idea.

n/a irrelevant_spam 2017-06-23

What is to be done about false positives?

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

I don't have every answer. but maybe an appeals process, like you mail in a handwritten letter, or have an actual conversation, or are given a creativity challenge like write a song or paint something original.

pass a turing test?

n/a irrelevant_spam 2017-06-23

We are far closer to the development of strong AI than I think you realize. Every action you listed can already be done to some degree by AI, and this capacity is only expanding. Furthermore, the Turing test itself can be unreliable.

n/a McDuffBSmith 2017-06-23

That's sounds scary. AI is going to ruin our day when it becomes self aware and can reprogram it's self.

I don't want to live in this time period anymore.

n/a irrelevant_spam 2017-06-23

Strong AI is estimated to be less than a decade away. Frankly, the only way humanity will be able to keep up is with neuroaugmentation, and I don't see that becoming financially viable and socially accepted in such a narrow timeframe. It may not bode well for humanity, but hopefully the AI would use its sentience better than humanity has.

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

You probably want multiple metrics (think of them as lens filters) to identify actors who behave with specific behaviours. But let's say that such a thing even exists, and it's shared on a platform where the data can't be corrupted/coopted, and it's transparent, etc - a non trivial challenge in itself. Big Whoop, as they used to say. You'd still be deferring actual thought for the analysis of a 3rd party, and that's gonna be a bad time.

Let's look at the shill/bot problem itself. Bots and shills can be scaled. That means that in the firehose of info that this board gets, bots/shills can scale their influence and drown out the other data. Are tools going to help identify this? Sure, but it becomes a cat and mouse game like radar detectors and radar radar detectors, ad infinitum. So probably only so useful.

What else do we know about bots n shills? They can't scale their longitudinality. What does this even mean? They can't maintain a detailed conversation without repeating themselves or identifying themselves as acting in a less than transparent or honest way. They out themselves, in other words.

So given this, what's a more effective way of filtering them out. By filtering out everybody and only taking users who pass the longitudinal smell test.

That's how you deal with shills n bots.

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

Well thought out.

So an invite-only conspiracy sub? Or invite-only ability to post/comment?

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

now that's not a bad idea..you'd have to have a voting system or some sort of human filter - but this is better than nothing.

i was more thinking of people keeping their own lists and explaining why they think a user is a real user, and then, on occasion, these lists being merged. not unlike spam lists. but the invite thing could well be an effective quick and dirty.

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

Yeah. Check out the one really long thread on this post. tell me what you think.

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

passes the Turing test. that's half the battle eh.

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

My idea was along those lines but simpler. It would allow all members to imput who they trust are humans. Other people would have their list. So the system could show a thread marked with the levels of separation people have. Example, my friends would look one color, friends of friends maybe a second shade. Friends of friends or friends (2 layers of separation)

Clicking on a user could show the friend path, so as to see who trusts who.

You can start to mark people negatively. So if there is a corruption in the system, the flaw becomes 'rotten'. This would happen in the instance if someone sold their account, or if their account was taken over against their will.

It would also show negatively on anyone trusting bad entities. So those that just trust anyone innocently would slowly lose their integrity rating.

Tl;dr: essentially it takes everyone's RES tags and merges them, showing people trends

n/a Miggle-B 2017-06-23

Would be good but all it takes is 1 for the gates to open. Offer cash for invite and BOOM

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

Just like Ready-Player-One

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

thus the need for voting one in and not having it be the choice of a single user

n/a silentmonkeys 2017-06-23

Shills are low hanging fruit, completely obvious and transparent generally. The main issue with bot infection, as you describe, is the sheer volume of operators. I have one real observation that has held true about them though, which is that if you look at the new tab at certain times, you see bursts of their spam - not always about the same topic, but with the clearly shared agenda to influence behavior.

n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-06-23

There are multiple accounts that just spam news articles from certain sites, and I think the point is just to drive traffic to those sites for various(and maybe nefarious) reasons.

n/a silentmonkeys 2017-06-23

Could be a mix. Just saying I've seen a definite rise in link spam at certain times during the day and night. Right now the general theme seems to be spotlighting the misdeeds of various CIA agents to discredit the CIA as a whole.

n/a InfectedBananas 2017-06-23

Oh, oh, you think because they're bot they automatically know all other bots?!

You botist!

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

No no no. I have many bot friends.

n/a d121212 2017-06-23

maybe just do the opposite. fill out a bot-proof captcha thingy (i can never get those right the first time) and then earn your not-a-bot-in-june flair. repeat once a month?

n/a dropdeadgregg 2017-06-23

As a bot I'm outraged

n/a Holypatchouli 2017-06-23

How would that help against vote manipulation though?

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

If you can't beat a computer, we've already lost the robot war.

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

now that's not a bad idea..you'd have to have a voting system or some sort of human filter - but this is better than nothing.

i was more thinking of people keeping their own lists and explaining why they think a user is a real user, and then, on occasion, these lists being merged. not unlike spam lists. but the invite thing could well be an effective quick and dirty.

n/a EricCarver 2017-06-23

Scary that he was making a list of shills? He was clever in trying to find bots. He and I butted heads many times, but because we both thought the other was a shill.

As for doxxing, I am sure Reddit sells our IPs to whomever wants to pay.

n/a Miggle-B 2017-06-23

Would be good but all it takes is 1 for the gates to open. Offer cash for invite and BOOM

n/a birdman5000 2017-06-23

He was attempting to dox people. That's exactly what he was doing. He was making a "list of shills"

doxxing is exposing public identity. by collecting IPs he was only slightly getting into this territory. what he was really doing was, as you accurately point out, making a list of shills. that's not doxxing. that's making a list of shills.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

I'm asking you how a shill acts. Are shills Marxists who play Xbox sometimes and watch Curb Your Enthusiasm while some dudes fill in your in-ground pool? Because that's what is happening now.

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

A list of shills is a great idea only a shill would think it wasn't.

Are you a shill??

n/a skatalon2 2017-06-23

ok

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

Still none?

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

Cultural Marxism is nothing to be proud of

n/a NewPinealAccount 2017-06-23

Rekt

n/a Kind_Of_A_Dick 2017-06-23

There's been a few people who've made that claim around here, that they have "lists". They always say it in the most ominous way too.

n/a HomieBhaBha 2017-06-23

What are you talking about.

Can we get a bot that identifies bots?

131 comments