Thanks for the rant. I would tend to agree with you.

Upvoted :)

This is something probably each one of us realises in our individual conscience but the collective, social conscience still moves in the direction of the technological wave and as a part of the society we are (sometimes) forced to participate in this collective herd behaviour.

While ofcourse there is nothing reversible about it as a whole (as major part of the world is still to access these as a significant part of the lifestyle). We can indeed exercise our individual conscience and not be a part of this. The inertia is ofcourse present for all of us, we can try like you're doing it. Good luck with your health choices!

Everyone does it because they think everyone else does it.

A majority of opinions - fabricated consensus forcefully upheld by the authority of wise men aka charlatans/ sly tongues. Plant ideas into the collective consciousness, seed ideas into people of distinct or familiar groups, and watch them try to approach each other with the ideas you feed them.

Please consider the following puzzle:

On an island where everyone knows each other, there are 100 people who have blue eyes, and the rest have green eyes. Since the beginning of times on that island, no one has ever known their own eye color, as there is no mirror (and no one ever talks about eye color, it's very taboo). By rule, if a person on the island ever discovers he has blue eyes, he must leave the island at dawn on the day of the discovery.

At some point, an Internet troll comes to the island, calls all the people together, climbs on a podium, and makes the following announcement in a bullhorn: "At least one of you has blue eyes".

The puzzle: assuming everyone on the island is completely logical and lawful, what is the eventual outcome of that public intervention?

(Think about it for a few seconds before reading further. Remember everyone already knows what he just said.)

The answer: on the 100th day after the announcement, at dawn, all the blue-eyed people leave the island at once. It works with any other positive number of blue-eyed people (that is, if there are k blue-eyed islanders, they all leave on the kth day). The explanation is actually quite straightforward and is at the end of the post.

The point is this: a troll came and didn't teach anyone anything. In this case everyone knew at least one islander had blue eyes, as they could all see it (although they didn't speak of it). Yet, they were living happily since the beginning of times; and now all the blue-eyes companions had to exile. What changed?

The answer is common knowledge. Not what anyone knows, but what everyone knows that everyone knows. What counts is not the fact the islanders heard the troll say what he said, it's the fact they all saw all the other islanders listening to him say it. The individual's perception of the crowd.

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It is all purposeful and intentional. New wave feminism is there to help the destruction of family and gender roles.

There will be no family in the future. The world state or government will be our family.

Love won't matter. As brave new world states, "Everyone belongs to everyone else."

People in movements like MGTOW or extreme feminsim are missing the larger conspiracy.

They want men and women to hate each other. Eventually men and women will not need eachother. We will all be "equal" in a brave new world.

OP sounds a lot like you. :) I recommend that she goes through your post history and read your posts that interest her. :)

I know!! I was going to share some of the stuff I wrote.

What's glp?

Godlike Productions.

Oh yes I've been on there

You might like r/RedPillWomen

It's happening all to all the advanced countries that have adopted wester style feminism. I'm ion mobile but google the study the pretty ones. It's about rats in a cage, when populations become stressed by large numbers , iirc, the men self select out of the gene pool and do nothing but groom themselves everyday and won't mate.

You are right. Polkadot take a look at this Putin speech and how he tackles modern politics: https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6lz876/no_wonder_the_nwo_hates_putin_just_listen_to_him/?utm_content=comments&utm_medium=user&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=frontpage

Damn I love him. Do you still think he is all part of the larger plan though?

I agree with his stance on lgbt propaganda. Be gay or whatever but do not be going around propagating it like they do here in the US.

Of course not, I still wouldn't call Putin a full blown Nationalist, but he is 100% Anti-NWO. He made Russia prosper and Russia, Iran and Syria are the only ones fighting ISIS and keeping the US and Israel on the edge.

Yes and there's so much anti-Putin propaganda but his approval rating is through the roof in Russia

Probably because you'll get killed if you report anything negative about Putin.

Here's some discussion. https://www.quora.com/What-is-Vladimir-Putins-actual-approval-rating-in-Russia

Is there free press in Russia?

what does that have to do with anything? linked that article because it has direct experiences about approval ratings.

Because people's opinion on things is often related to how it's reported on in the media.

Is there free press in Russia?

It's probably more free than US media.

Way to dodge the question.

Is there free press in Russia?

Probably not. I am not a Russia expert.

What do you think would happen to a news reporter if they started reporting negative news about Putin or started revealing his crimes?

I don't give a fuck. This is a holy war and Putin is the only counterbalance to USreal luciferianism.

luciferianism

Jesus fucking christ. So not only are you posting on a conspiracy sub while cheerleading for a major world power leader who is well known for killing dissenters, but you're trying to push a satanic panic. Satanic Panics are classic methods used by the religious elite to control the masses and maintain power.

There is no holy war, because there is no holy. All these religions are just ways to control people, nothing more.

Cheerleading for Putin in current world conflicts, yes. Cheerleading as the world's finest politician or leader ever? No.

Okay, you can replace holy war with religious cult war if you want. Yes, a brand of Judaism or Khaballah or Masonic babylonian shit is controlling America, thus me being here speaking out.

Furthermore, if you love the US it is very much time to panic and do something to help.

Ah ok thanks, makes sense.

np

Is there free press in America?

Why won't anyone just answer the question.

Does Russia have free press or not? Is it safe to criticize the Russian government or Putin for their reporters?

I was answering the question rhetorically. To my knowledge, the Russian press is as free as ours. Ask Michael Hastings for more info.

Otherwise known as whataboutism and not answering the question.

Whataboutism is just what is used to conviently brush aside the exposure of your hypocrisy. I have answered your question, you just don't understand rhetorical devices.

I will be more explicit for you: free press does not exist in either America or Russia. In both countries, speaking out about established powers can and will get you killed.

Yes. Just look at dozhd = https://tvrain.ru/ or moscow today. All anti putin and none of their journalists have been brutally murdered by putin himself as your brainwashed ass claims.

You think he killed the 17% of Russians who said they disapprove of him?

17% of Russians who disapproved of him work in the media?

You think they made up his approval rating?

No, and you are changing the subject about how dabgoerous t is for news reporters to report on the crimes of Putin.

I'm just confused as to what you're talking about. Are you saying his approval rating is actually lower than what they reported, implying that they made up the 83%? Or that those people only said they approve of him because otherwise they would be killed, which would imply that the 17% who said they don't approve of Putin were killed.

He's saying that the average person's opinion is shaped by the media, and the fact that the media can't report negative opinions about Putin without fearing death is heavily affecting the average person's opinion, because they only ever hear pro-Putin propaganda.

And he's absolutely bang on correct.

Thank you! This is exactly what I meant and I'm sure the other user knew that.

I can't understand why someone would work so hard make themselves irrelevant.

What do you mean?

I like how this subreddit thinks all American approval polls are fake but believes Russian approval polls.

And hillary clinton has a 98% chance to win...

Russia's economy is in the shits

It only had some problems recently due to the Oil prices, but It's hardly Putin's fault and It's not like It's in crisis.

The economy is not the presidents fault?

I feel like there's been a massive spike recently in people being blatantly pro-government and pro-Putin, alongside a massive spike in overtly religious people trying to push a new Satanic Panic.

Yep. But I've noticed it for years. They were mostly in world news when Russia invaded Ukraine.

They do have a shitty economy but they have have way more gold reserves and FOREX than US, because Obama spent our cash and gold reserves. He blew through like $30 billion in one year We don't even crack the top 10 on reserves anymore.

The United States had foreign currency reserves of $119.6 billion as of April 2016... Russian Federation has $407.3 billion

That would be more important if our economy was dependent on gold. It's not, and thank god it isn't. Maybe that's part of the reason why Russia has such a shit economy.

Comparatively, Japan has $1,321 billion and South Korea has $372.6 billion; FOREX is a reflection of how healthy the financial status is of a country. If that doesn't concern you ¯_(ツ)_/¯

And it's not the sole measure of the financial status.

The pro-Putin propaganda in this sub is disgusting. You "love" Putin? You should be ashamed of yourself for saying something to ridiculous.

Or do you just love any dictator that's known for mercilessly jailing and murdering their dissenters? Jesus fucking Christ.

Not ashamed

That's sad.

Or just grossly uninformed.

Perhaps, but people have been accusing world leaders of murder for decades. Just recently there was Seth Rich. Years ago there was JFK, Martin Luther King, Gary Webb. All those dead doctors with the 'gcmaf' thing, "Clinton Body Count," etc etc. All the different cases have different amounts of evidence and many people believe some of them are objectively or obviously murders. People on the other side may not agree. If you ask for evidence and the person says "it's obvious, I don't want to waste my time sourcing it," it makes your case look weak as hell.

Deluded.

mercilessly jailing and murdering their dissenters

Hahahahahahahha oh man...

Some proof of this? And more than one or two since it seems like suuuuch a big problem.

If you're going to be so defensive and obstinate about something that's objective truth right off the bat, then I'm not going to waste my time. You'd have to be dumb as a rock or an actual propagandist to say Putin doesnt have a long history of doing exactly those things.

Well if he has such a long history and it's such truth, it should be super easy for you to provide a dozen examples amirite?

Okay start with Wikipedia

So that's a "no" on the proof. Shocking.

Do you automatically hate Putin because of all the propaganda you've been fed?

Also, how do you feel about that capitalists in the US that start wars causing millions of deaths for monetary gain?

What has he done that was a step further than what the US does in the world?

What the fuck...

?

"Damn, I love him." Seems like an incredibly misinformed or naive statement to make about Putin.

Why

are you 10 years old? Or just not care what murderous KGB dictators do?

Probably 10

Putin is of course part of the bigger plan, he comes in as the voice of logic against the western hypocrisy. But still playing for the team behind the scenes.

Yeah you're probably right.

Every major player in politics or big company game is part of the plan and working for the elite powers.

If Putin is really part of the elites why would he put his life on the line fighting ISIS? It's fine to be a little paranoid but he still hasn't done anything wrong.

holy shit what is wrong with you people...

"I agree with his stance on lgbt propaganda. Be gay or whatever but do not be going around propagating it like they do here in the US."

you think that's their policy? You don't think gays are being killed in Chechnya?

Should straight people never discuss anything about their sexuality with anyone?

I thought conservatives didn't want the government telling people how to live their lives? Ever have a hard time balancing these conflicting beliefs?

Do you believe everything you are told through American propaganda, too?

Of course not

But you seem to believe all Russias

Equal in a brave new world, no borders no country's. But everyone alone.

"There was a thing, as I said before, called Christianity."

Fuck religion

I didn't say I support religious institutions for the most part.

What's your point then?

I think that religion can be used for good or bad depending on the context.

It definitely has been used for bad but it can and could be used for good

As a woman, I approve this message.

Let's start a woman sub that isn't stupid.

Not redpill women and not shitredditsays.

Like a subreddit to discuss our concerns about feminsim and our place in our society.

I'll start it but what should it be called.

r/Cuntsagainstcunts r/TheFamilyUnit r/LadiesforEquality r/Whatmakeswomenspecial

Cuntsagainstcunts lol!

I will happily join.

Hm...what to call it? Make Women Female Again? :)

Feminism is Slavery?

My favorite line from GKC: “Feminism is mixed up with a muddled idea that women are free when they serve their employers but slaves when they help their husbands.”

IDK...my creative juices are low right now. :) I think you have the right idea about creating a great real-woman sub tho!

I like

Feminismisslavery

Or makewomengreatagain

Why not Gilead?

Sure seems like that's what you want

I'm not sure what you are referring to.

The idea that women cannot be thoughtful and strong apart from feminist-cringe-inducing-ideology is a sip of the cultural kool-aid I'm just not willing to drink.

Handmaids tale, you all sound just like the woman in it who helped create their wonderful anti feminist society

Feminism is a creation of the CIA.

It is a form of political slavery...so um, yea...Ima pass on that one.

My favorite line from GKC: “Feminism is mixed up with a muddled idea that women are free when they serve their employers but slaves when they help their husbands.”

I like that quote. What's GKC?

G.K. Chesterton. He's a treasure trove of good sayings! ;)

Yes, do it. I'll join. Like "women in the middle"

Ok I am going to make it this week.

All women will be welcome and men as well.

The point of the sub that we feel feminism has larger conspiracy roots, and we will address controversial women's issues in a free speech environment.

Yay! Can you please send me a message when it's made?

Yes I'll post it on this subreddit too! Probably will get downvoted lol

Fellow woman here, lost in a world of feminism where I'm always told I'm being repressed because of my sex, and if I don't believe it then I'm in denial. I would love a woman-centric middleground space to talk about these issues.

Great to hear!

Let me know when it's made, too. I'm down for some real talk about the problems with third wave Feminism.

This is a great idea! Can you keep me posted on this?

Yes!!

Oooo! I want to join, too! Can there be a rule to not name call? It seems like a way most people derail conversations. ITT when I dared to question the doctrine of feminism I got called an "antifembot" and accused of being a boy pretending to be a girl.

Yes no "ad hominem" but I want to keep it as free as possible.

Maybe just no trolls or shills either.

"Free speech environment"

One comment later and the language police have their fingers in it from day 0.

This won't end well. But at least it'll end quick.

Hmm I guess we can see.

Oh dear. The language police have their fingers in it from day 0.

This won't end well. But it'll end quick.

What's wrong with redpillwomen?

I don't hate them but I think redpill men can be a little too agressive.

I do not think women have to be complete doormats. I think women can be strong and intelligent and still hold traditional roles.

Redpill makes it seem as women are just complete idiots who peak at 24.

Agreed the men's redpill sub is pretty intense but /r/redpillwomen is great.

It's a subreddit for women embracing traditional gender roles.

Ok well maybe I will give it a chance.

The sub doesn't feel organic to me (haven't been there for a few months to be fair, maybe it's changed). Nothing against women who strive to fill a traditional role but I got the feeling most of the "ladies" posting were actually dudes/insincere people trying to promote an ideology. I really think there are some dark intentions behind all the divisive gender stuff one sees online, whether on the male side or the female. I can't say what's behind it but it gives me a very bad feeling. I used to think it was fun to read feminist stuff and then men's rights stuff to get an idea of the different perspectives, but now I avoid it all.

Yeah I agree..something is off about it.

Just stop trying to appease men. Do what you want to do.

But I want them to think I'm pretty

The fact that it stems from /r/theredpill and acts as a female mirror of the sub. TRP is a fucking dumpster fire of a sub that treats women like subhumans and objects, existing only to taken and used by men, incapable of thinking and acting on the same level as men. RPW is arguably worse, because they're women who are essentially saying the same thing, a rather pure form of self-hatred.

RPW is not like that at all. You clearly have not been there much.

RPW is women who are embracing their femininity and traditional relationship values. There's scarecely any mysandry there at all.

No arguments about TRP, although it's not totally bereft of useful information.

RPW is definitely less toxic than TRP

That's like saying a B41 nuclear bomb is less explosive than the Tsar Bomba. You're technically correct, but it's not exactly a very high bar that's being set.

TRP is a fucking dumpster fire of a sub that treats women like subhumans and objects

Not really. TRP is online locker room talk. Hyperbole and bro talk. This is encouraged by the mods with the explicit reason to keep women and men without the social intelligence to not take everything literally out of the sub.

If it's anything like the feminism movement of yesteryear and not the feminazi movement I'm all for it.

I'll start it but what should it be called.

/r/ThinkLikeUsOrElse or /r/WeThinkCorrectlySoThinkLikeUs ?

Like a subreddit to discuss our concerns about feminsim and our place in our society.

I doubt many are going to willingly accept your subservient quiet female role your religious beliefs dictate.

Isn't that already taken by mgtow

Isn't that already taken by mgtow

I don't even know what that word means to be honest.

But you aren't going to get women to be subservient and quite anymore no matter what your religious dictates require. Your only chance would be to use force, are you willing to go that far?

No.....and I am not trying to really do anything. You kind of creep me out

No.....and I am not trying to really do anything. You kind of creep me out

If adult conversation creeps you out then why are you here? You appear, in my opinion, to be saying that in the hope of having people ride to your rescue which, frankly, is kind of lame. You could actually address my points if you care to continue this discussion.

Because you misinterpreted everything I said. And I'm not sure if it was intentional or not.

I never said that I thought women need to be controlled.

and our place in our society.

I never said that I thought women need to be controlled.

Now I see what the bible says Christians should be, and I try to follow that.

The conservative Protestant wing of Christianity has specific views on females and their place in society the vast majority of which have them being subservient to either their father or their husband. It isn't me misinterpreting what you said, it is me extrapolating your beliefs based on your statements and self-proclaimed religious world view.

Well I understand those views. I'm not protestant and I offer a different interpretation about the subservient to men verse. If you want I'll type it up.

People in movements like MGTOW or extreme feminsim are missing the larger conspiracy.

Some MGTOW are aware of the larger conspiracy, but whether you see it or not, the winning strategy for men in this anti-male environment is to disengage. If men try to get married with the divorce courts as messed up as they are, they lose their children and much of their earnings.

MGTOW is a rational response to a broken system. Anyone who wants men to return to society needs to fix society. MGTOW feel no need to fix a society that they view as destroyed by men and women who capitulated to women's desires, needs, wants, and feelings.

Well I went on there and asked and basically the response is "I don't give a fuck."

And if they were aware, they wouldn't hate women.

Kind of like when people are racist. They hate the people not the system.

Did you even read what I wrote?

MGTOW have concluded that the current environment is not conducive to having children or marrying women, and dating women is a bit risky too. As such, they've decided not to marry, never to have children, and often not to date at all. Western society has demonstrated that women are on top, their children are beneath them, and men are dead last (in terms of societal priorities). As such, the only good option for the few men who recognize this is to disengage from women.

If it turned out that feminism was a product of Santa Clause, Adolf Hitler, and the Wicked Witch of the West, it wouldn't make any difference to the optimal behavioral pattern of men who care about their own wants, needs, and goals (i.e. self-actualized men).

So yeah, I bet they don't care. I've brought this up with numerous MGTOW. They're right not to care. MGTOW are motivated by loyalty to themselves, and they're not going to sacrifice themselves to raise families in a system that doesn't support them in doing so.

What part of "IT'S A CONSPIRACY" is supposed to matter to MGTOW, exactly?

Yes I read what you wrote

1) They should care because they are perpetuating the system they hate! By hating women, they are feeding into the very beliefs and paradigms they do not like. They are supporting the global agenda to further break down traditional roles and structures.

2) I am not really an advocate of any selfish philosophy. That's just me though.

3) They can do what they want, but to me the ultimate conspiracy is spiritual. Not only does God show us how men and women should be, he shows us how we should treat others.

So to me, the philosophy perpetuates hatred, and God would not want that.

Of course not everyone I know holds the same views as me BUT

4) You would see that all this destruction of male and female is directly correlated with what the bible says will happen. To me, it all makes sense.

5) I do get where MGTOW are coming from. They can do what they feel is right for them. However, ultimately I do not think it is the right path.

If you want to see better gender relations, you need to create a world where that is possible.

False rape accusations, false sexual abuse accusations, no-fault divorce WITH ALIMONY and default custody to women, zero enforcement of men's time with their children, zero support for men who are abused by women...

The problems are easy to see. Many men, after recognizing the litany, refuse to take on the burden of trying to undo the damage that Feminist advocates have done to men, families, and society. If you want to see something better, you should go out and make it. Today's men played no part in destroying the family, although many women did and continue to do so. Fix the system if you want men to change their behavior.

Not you are missing the point.

If men want to see better gender relations they must first recognize the larger conspiracy that is making women the way they are.

This goes back to the first argument - the conspiracy matters and most MGTOW do not want to here it.

They would rather sit there anger and bitter than try to bring awareness to what's causing the issues.

Women are fucked up today and it is no coincidence. Instead of hating women, I feel compassion is the better route.

MGTOWs don't believe it is feminism that is the problem but gynocentrism. Gynocentrism includes traditionalists aka tradcons.

To what degree do you believe this to be true in the vast majority of the developed world which lies outside of the United States?

Hmm I'll be honest I am not sure

ps mgtow is a recent phenomena. Women were not always this way. This mgtow did not exist in the 1950s, for example.

After wasting a few decades trying to find someone to spend the rest of your life with, MGTOW is the only logical choice.

In a relationship men give give give and women take take take, well I'm not willing to give anymore only for her to take it all and leave to the next provider that gives her the tingles.

I don't post to Reddit much but I read this sub sometimes cause I used to be very interested in conspiracies. I was intrigued by your comments.

You should read this post if you havent:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6m77wg/what_i_learned_from_my_2week_hiatus_from_reddit/?st=j4xuz7ga&sh=694a40bd

I have been I guess what most people consider MGTOW for several years. I could probably hit the character limit if I have you my whole story, but let's just say I had a woman with severe BPD absolutely destroy my life. It has taken me almost a decade to recover from it and my life has been irrevocably changed for the worse. It derailed my life trajectory permanently.

I can't afford that to ever happen again. Focusing on my self improvement and nothing else is the best I can do. I volunteer quite a bit and work with kids, as well. But beyond that, there's nothing I can do as an individual beyond bettering myself and giving back to my community. Relationships threaten to completely derail that at any time, so I just don't date.

Before you tell me that there are plenty of good women out there, let me tell you that I know that already. The woman who ruined my life had a record of mental health problems, and yet, most people in her life had no idea. She was in excellent physical shape, had a great job, was articulate and well spoken, was charismatic, was funny, and was a highly skilled and educated person. She didn't reveal her problems until we had been dating for over a year. And it was an amazing year, but then she snapped.

I know several men who have been through similar experiences. I don't hate women. At all. None of the guys I know who have decided to bow out do either. It's just a matter of risk analysis.

I can't tell you what can be done to fix the problem. I probably will never be able to tell you that. Me marrying somebody isn't going to change anything. The best I can do is work very hard, constantly improve myself, and help the people around me to the best of my abilities. And that's what I'm doing.

I actually do not believe there are plenty of good women out there. I agree with MGTOW to an extent.

But I do not think their hatred helps anything.

I get where most are coming from, and if they want to go their own way I even get that.

But their ideologies are often completely dismissive of who they really should be hating.

it's not hatred of "women", it is "hatred" of what woman have done and are doing...

actions not words... words are open interpretation.. Actions are not. Feminism used to talk a good game, it "sounds" and "feels" good, the (acted out) reality bears no resemblance to the rhetoric.

good luck with your new sub

1 Corinthians 7

8 Now to the unmarried[a] and the widows I say: It is good for them to stay unmarried, as I do. 9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

[...]

25 Now about virgins: I have no command from the Lord, but I give a judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy. 26 Because of the present crisis, I think that it is good for a man to remain as he is. 27 Are you pledged to a woman? Do not seek to be released. Are you free from such a commitment? Do not look for a wife. 28 But if you do marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. But those who marry will face many troubles in this life, and I want to spare you this.

29 What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From now on those who have wives should live as if they do not; 30 those who mourn, as if they did not; those who are happy, as if they were not; those who buy something, as if it were not theirs to keep; 31 those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away.

32 I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord’s affairs—how he can please the Lord. 33 But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world—how he can please his wife— 34 and his interests are divided. An unmarried woman or virgin is concerned about the Lord’s affairs: Her aim is to be devoted to the Lord in both body and spirit. But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband. 35 I am saying this for your own good, not to restrict you, but that you may live in a right way in undivided devotion to the Lord.

36 If anyone is worried that he might not be acting honorably toward the virgin he is engaged to, and if his passions are too strong[b] and he feels he ought to marry, he should do as he wants. He is not sinning. They should get married. 37 But the man who has settled the matter in his own mind, who is under no compulsion but has control over his own will, and who has made up his mind not to marry the virgin—this man also does the right thing. 38 So then, he who marries the virgin does right, but he who does not marry her does better.

I dint see your post there. But i would have dgaf-ed if i had seen it. Let me guess. You came there to tell us about how much you dont symapthize about our problems, that we are women hating monsters and we should get our asses back to plantaion now!

I am not surprised you got a DGAF. Every woman who shows up there has to come up with the same shit. (Besides we like our little man cave over there. Little refugee from hamstering. No offence meant.).

MGTOW is the only option for men. Want to know why? Because women and society will never sympathize with our problems. They are incapable of doing it. If we bring up legitimate progressive backed problems like hypergamy, afbb, etc, we get called women hating loser neckbeard virgin dwarf. Dating market place is ridiculous. Marriage is a suicide: mentally, emotionally and financially.

Tldr: women cant sympathize with our problems. To them, they are the only and sole victims. Men exist to toil and serve them. MGTOW shows us this. We dont hate the system, nor the people. We just dont want anything to do anything with neither of those. The word id indifference, nit hate. This has been said a million times.

No I basically said there was a larger conspiracy.

A few people replied, a few attacked.

It got hidden from new - not deleted.

Ok.

If you really want to say something there, I would suggest you to create a throwaway with a name and history that doesnt give away your gender. Because a lot of mgtow are aware of how women operate on the internet. "Here are my tits, where is my special treatment".

Its the only place on internet where tits dont give you free shit. True equality.

Try to make a rational, coherent argument.

Avoid these stuff:

1. Muh. I am not like women you describe. So all women must be awesomeeeeee!
   
2. You guys just bitter and hate women
   
3. Look, me me me me. I have tits. Me me me me me.
   
4. Understand tge difference
   
   1. Criticism vs sexism
      
   2. Hate vs indifference
      

Not saying you did that. Just saying women who come there make these mistakes. Maybe you will get a reply for your questions.

I did my best. I'm not trying again.

It won't make a difference anyway. They have their views and echo chambers.

To me, that is dangerous. Say what they will about me as a woman, but they acted just as irrational when I went over there.

However there were a few who really talked to me and gave me the benefit of the doubt, so that was nice.

You can look through my post history. I think it's pretty clear what type of person I am. I went to the sub with the best of intentions, and all I got was hate.

Even when people disagree with me I always hear them out.

Ok.

You cannot fix the system. It's easy to blame the system but the reality the system is a mirror that reflects the values of the people within the system. If the values are corrupt the system is corrupt, and frankly humanity is depraved and corrupt, so there is no choice but to shield yourself from the depravity of society and keep living. The answer is to go your own way, MGTOW or WGTOW.

Well I believe that is true to an extent, but I also think there is a global elite that manipulates things to their advantge.

the winning strategy for men in this anti-male environment is to disengage

The tone of that sub is anything but 'winning'.

MGTOW is centered in Youtube or MGTOW.co, not reddit.

Here's a video that helps many young men to understand their place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov58o2xJqu0

MGTOW is just a bad as feminism. It's a huge woman hating circle jerk. I got banned from r/MGTOW just yesterday literally for asking user to be aware of hate, and how bad hate against females and other races is. Feminism and MGTOW are both movements against the family unit. This leads to single parent homes, and raising of kids in the hands of the state. Be very weary of both movements, remember that all extremes are bad.

Well said.

To combat "the hate" you need first to understand it. I'm being 100% serious, non-judgemental here.

Just like most racist people live in black neighborhoods for example, people that hate muslims live around muslims or were attacked by them.

No one is born with full-blown hate against something, hatred is fueled by external factors. We might be predisposed to be friendlier to our own "type", but not hate another race or religion.

The guys on MGTOW, which is a sub that I go on a lot, were burned badly. They have some trauma: getting divorce raped, cheated on, dumped, rejected a lot of times, etc. This isn't something that a person can just "snap out" of.

Our current state of society goes against the bonding of men and women. We are both free from each other, selfishness is encouraged indirectly, so this is what happens. I could go on and on about this, but I think you get the point.

Absolutely, hurt people hurt people.

My recommendation is r/wgtow

Just like most racist people live in black neighborhoods for example, people that hate muslims live around muslims or were attacked by them.

This assessment is so wrong. Isolated homogeneous communities are way more likely to be racist, ex: rural America, Japan, South Korea, India.

They aren't racist in the sense of HATING other races. They are racist in the sense that they stick together by race, they are UNITED by race. You need to understand the difference.

People that live in black neughborhoods are racist in the sense of hating black people, MGTOW are sexist in the sense of hating the opposite sex, and so on.

They aren't racist in the sense of HATING other races. They are racist in the sense that they stick together by race, they are UNITED by race. You need to understand the difference.

What a nonsense distinction. They dislike and think people are inferior/untrustworthy based on race. You going to tell me the rednecks in the KKK don't hate other races and are really just united in superior whiteness?

They aren't racist in the sense of HATING other races. They are racist in the sense that they stick together by race, they are UNITED by race. You need to understand the difference.

What a nonsense distinction. They dislike and think people are inferior/untrustworthy based on race. You going to tell me the rednecks in the KKK don't hate other races and are really just united in superior whiteness?

They aren't racist in the sense of HATING other races. They are racist in the sense that they stick together by race, they are UNITED by race. You need to understand the difference.

What a nonsense distinction. You going to tell me the KKK chapter in rural Kentucky doesn't hate other races but is instead united in their whiteness? If you dislike or think some one is inferior/ untrustworthy based on race you are a racist period.

But isolated communities are isolated from others. They may be more racist but it's way less of a problem because there's very few people of other races around them. Just pointing out the logical fallacy there.

These people don't vote/work in government or use the internet?

Agreed, could just be my experience but everyone I've known who's passionately hated certain groups generally had very little actual interaction with them.

I think when you have regular contact with a certain group you start to deal with it at the individual level.For example when you have a negative experience with lets say a black person, you're more likely to think "another asshole causing trouble" as opposed to "another black causing problems" because your everyday interactions are varied. It makes it harder to paint individuals with the same brush, unless you really only have constant negative experiences which is unlikely if you're not already an asshole/racist.

People that hate muslims the most have never met a muslim person. Same with black people- the people who hate them the most live in homogenous white areas. In fact, closer proximity to any group will make you LESS likely to hate them because you are forced to see them as individuals and judge them accordingly, rather than as a huge unknown group...

People that hate muslims the most are the ones that have to actually live with the average muslim. Not the above average ones. The same goes for black people.

You will hear the most hateful things spoken in the most casual way among these people. They are the ones that have to live with the cultural clash.

that's simply untrue.

THESE people voted for Brexit

the areas of the UK with the MOST votes for Brexit had the LEAST number of muslims living there. Places like London with the highest concentration of muslims living among white people has the strongest support to Remain in the EU.....just like google search the voting map of England.....

that's simply untrue.

No, its not...

The only group that distinctly voted to remain were middle class liberals. The working class voted to leave the EU.

CAN ANYONE PROViDE ANY FUCKING SOURCES FOR THIS SHIT?????

That's not true at all. If you look up maps of where the most racist attitudes against blacks are in the US, for example, it will look virtually exactly the same as the map of where the most blacks in the US live. And the people who voted for Le Pen in France, who ran on a very anti-Muslim platform were the people who live in the areas with the most Muslims. I also saw a study saying that people who live in towns with more Mexicans are more likely to support strict immigration policies. Also, Robert Putnam's study shows that diversity in general decreases social cohesion and trust among all races.

I was going to post the same. In my experience the people who are so passionate about hating certain groups actually have very little experience with them. When you actually have relationships with people it's harder to reduce them to caricatures.

Look in the communities. I grew up in a 95% white, upper middle class neighborhood. The amount of racism I saw was unreal... Just general hatred for anyone that wasn't in our community. Poor, Hispanic, Black...

I moved out, met people, and realized "holy shit I grew up in a real asshole neighborhood"

It depends what part of the country you're in too.

Correct, racism does not stand up well to contact.

nice anecdote

A lot of people are really classist, not racist, but it's really hard to draw that line with certain progressives.

i.e. : color, religion or sexual orientation of ones neighbors doesn't matter at all if they are all of the same class and community.

Hate come from pain . You get hurt, then you fear, then you get angry and then you hate.

except it isnt. feminist push their ideology onto others

like shit sticking to shoes.

mgtows want to get the shit unstuck from their shoes

Yes mgtow is a woman hate circle jerk but unlike feminists their aim is not to destroy the other gender but simply ignore it

Mgtow - not a movement - it's philosophy. Not to let yourself be subjugated, as if your freedom and liberty were someone else's to give away. What a piss take.

There's no push to change anything - ergo - not a movement. It is to re deliver moral autonomy to the individual, to no longer be swayed from the truth no matter how much people will scream and yell and stamp their feet; you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

It is to understand female sexuality, that is to select the highest possible quality mate to propagate the best genetics. When there's no net negative outcome for you for making a choice and it delivers you benefit, you're going to take that choice 99 times out of 100, right?

So not incentivizing single motherhood is going to heal the broken family unit, not fucking tone policing the guy that had his wallet and soul ripped out his asshole.

There is a difference between MGTOW and Men Rights two dif movements. One aims to change society for the better -changes that do need to happen- the other is a lot of hedonism <- that's the philosophy behind mgtow

I'm aware of the differences between the two - that's why I stated MGTOW is not a movement. Self ownership is much more in line with changing society for the net benefit of everyone than laboring under the illusion that women and state are EVER, EVER going to value your needs.

I dunno. I would say MGTOW is better because many ideas are backed by studies. Feminism is just a bunch of retards circle jerking. Whereas MGTOW is men using statistics to circle jerk.

Can the family unit even be saved now? I would say it's impossible to save the western family. Perhaps its my MGTOW bias talking. But the studies show a pattern and the pattern doesn't lie. It's too late.

There are cultures and religions out there where it is possible. Islam for example won't be gone for a looooong time. But who the fuck wants to live in that world?

how bad hate against females and other races is

You seem just as indoctrinated as those you seem against. This is a common misconception. Females are a human group. Races are human groups. As with all groups, they tend to exhibit similar behavior. There are exceptions to every rule, but it is fact that these groups within themselves exhibit similar behavior. The reason being is that they have similar experiences in life. The clothes they wear, the food they eat, the environment they grew up in, their culture, the media they did or did not consume etc etc. Similar people exhibit similar behavior.

If this widespread behavior is bad, then it is only natural to hate these groups. If black people are being raised with the "white man" being their enemy, if woman are raised learning about how men have oppressed them, if muslims are raised learning how the non-believer ("kuffar") is the enemy. They learn to hate a group. Therefore, that hated group in time will hate them back.

This is human instinct. To protect your people, you must hate your enemies. If you be nice and let them infiltrate you, you and your people are all dead.

This leads to single parent homes, and raising of kids in the hands of the state.

I definitely see how feminism causes these problems. But...

I really fail to see how MGTOW is causing this. MGTOW men are known for abandoning the dating system, not abandoning their wives and children. MGTOW men in general advocate against kids because they believe it's too risky.

Are you suggesting that MGTOW enter back into the system, marry and raise kids just to try to save the family unit?

Please feel free to go through my history and read the recent thread in MGTOW that got me banned for calling for less hate overall if you'd really like to know and understand what I'm talking about.

Feminism was created to get more women in the workforce causing wages to nosedive

And it worked pretty well it seems.

Same for mass immigration too I guess.

I agree. Im sure many others feel the same way but they would get wrongly labeled as racist

No, they would be labelled 'incorrect'. Cart before horse.

Exactly. And to add, more people working is more tax revenue for the government.

Try the correct version: capitalists, at the very time when rising wage levels and oil crisis-induced inflation were hitting profits, used feminism to promote 'women's empowerment' through greater participation in the workplace. This expanded the pool of surplus labour, enabled men's real average salaries to fall without - on the surface - affecting the family unit as women's pay could now be added to the household budget.

You restated exactly what I said

Feminism was exploited, not created

And to open up more tax revenue for the state. Gotta keep this war machine empire rolling!!

2 other big reasons.

To be able to tax 100% of the population (before on 50%).

To get kids into schools earlier so they can be indoctrinated earlier.

Watch this short vid: https://youtu.be/-MSigEwqqeo

They want to divide us so they can control us.

And much like feminism, Cultural marxism is a zionist creation originating from the Frankfurt school of philosophy.

Also appears Top minds of reddit are brigading this post

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Holy crap. I've never really thought about new wave feminism as a control method, but it makes sense. It's a social movement intentionally put on to divide and conquer.

if were pointing fingers at eachother we won't notice the shit they do

Feminism was always about divide and conquer.
It was pushed in the US by the KGB.

Women lib was funded by the Rockefeller foundation.

Watch this: https://youtu.be/-MSigEwqqeo

Search CIA "Operation Wurlitzer" - Gloria Steinheim was an agent.

right.

Is this referring to the Georgia stones (from the NWO) saying the population should not exceed a certain amount. Is the feminazi movement making sure that happens, if so that is a big conspiracy theory.

https://i.redd.it/3aevrg0rvefx.jpg

I understand that Feminism is probably being used that way, but if MGTOW was created also for the same purpose, why don't I see it on the news, in magazines or other mind controlling news stations?

I'm MGTOW and I do this to defend myself. Been in worst case scenario's with women. One stole my money after the break up, one told the whole town I was abusive, one told me she got raped and I wanted to kill that man.

Even if there are conspiracy theories about MGTOW, there should be some positive information portraying MGTOW. If the government or some important family/person trying to destroy the family for their own purpose (money) than 'we' should actually see some propaganda.

I think that mgtow is a dangerous concept to feminists, so you won't see it in the media as much.

This is tradcon propaganda. Gender roles should be destroyed because they promote the exploitation of men. Tradwives stay home and leech off the hard work of men. Feminism is merely a scapegoat for the real problem, which is with women. Women are naturally hypergamous. They will seek out men with most resources and suck him dry. There is only one solution, and that solution is MGTOW.

Lol so what would be the result if all men turned to MGTOW...

This is intentional.

I think it is interesting that they destroy our family structures and worship their own. No accident there.

They want men and women to hate each other.

Well put. If you are against your "other" you aren't against the State:

• Republican vs. Democrat
• Black vs. White
• Older Generation vs. Current Generation.

Bruh I'm so down as long as I'm an alpha and get that sweet, sweet soma

Do you have any theories as to how children will be made? Will it be all single moms? Foster homes?

People in movements like MGTOW or extreme feminsim are missing the larger conspiracy. They want men and women to hate each other. Eventually men and women will not need eachother. We will all be "equal" in a brave new world.

That sounds like MGTOW know exactly what they are doing. If you look at r/MGTOW you will see countless references to "enjoy the decline" and "watching the world burn."

It seems like MGTOW know that the male role has been destoryed so they just to not fight back and accept it. It's probably too late to change where we are going, might as well "enjoy the decline" as they say.

I mean should we all have the attitude then? Should we all just give up?

Is nothing worth fighting for?

I used to live in an area where feminism was completely out of control. Women were brainwashed to look down on men and treat them like uncivilized savages. Although this is rare, it was real in this geographic area of about 75 miles radius.

These women were so lonely that it was killing them. They just learned to live without love but seemed empty at the same time. Men thought these women were morons but didn't know what to say.

Pretty much the whole dating scene had shut down. It came to a point that women wouldn't date men unless they suspected the man would be their future husband. They don't even know the man but they refuse to date unless they sense marriage might happen. This confused matter even more.

These brainwashed women would act extremely snobby and stuck up. They were unapproachable and very unattractive by personality. The personality was so unattractive that even women who looked like models were ugly. The ugly insides made the outside worst.

I finally moved away and although this stuff exists here and there, I had never seen it to the same extreme. There are many parts of the world, especially outside of America, that doesn't have this problem. Men and women love and respect each other in these parts and they have an insanely fun time partying, falling in love, and even getting laid.

The government is sneaky. They us Hollywood to push feminism and separate mankind.

Also, the "might is right" myth is what screws up women's rights. Some women believe they have to act like a man to succeed but in reality society has to drop the "might is right" attitude and switch to something more logical. We are constantly drifting away from "might is right" and that is why we see such big advancements in women's right in history.

Is it me or does this sound like someone used Google translate to write this comment...

Did you use Google translate to write this comment? Because I can assure you no english speaker would ever write: "Although this is rare, it was real in this geographic area of about 75 miles radius."

Arg, tough to type on mobile. I'll rewrite it.

It's Luciferian in origin.

I think people just have different priorities now. What's wrong with that? If people don't want to be in relationships then that's their choice. It's not like there still aren't plenty of fish in the sea.

Capitalism is the disease this is merely just another symptom.

Sorry that isn't gonna fly on T_D2.0

This sub is far too progressive to be T_D 2.0. It's amazing people are apparently gullible enough to believe that

The sub has became overrun with trump supporters, that's obvious to anyone that's been here for two years or more.

Its not really td2 .0 I'm just poking fun at the attempt to make it so.

I'm a Bernie supporter and I come here for the progressivism.

If it actually was T_D 2.0 then all of us independents and progressives wouldn't be here.

You don't fight a war in friendly zones.

I don't get it. People gotta stop saying this is T_D 2.0. That was a disinformation campaign by shills

I'm a Bernie supporter and I come here for the progressivism.

No, you come here for Seth Rich, the DNC, and Hillary Clinton. This is far from a progressive subreddit.

And the anti-war and anti-corporatism. There's lots of progressivism on this sub

Coop story bro, did you even read my comment? It doesn't change or effect my comment.

Why don't you escape from this horrible capitalism and go live under a communist regime, as we all know they don't have any social ills.

That's sound logic eh, "don't like capitalism you have to be a commie."

So what is it that you dislike about capitalism and what is your solution?

I bitch about capitalism, but not the ideology in general but unregulated capitalism we're currently experiencing.

current capitalism in America is completely regulated, it's not a free market system, it's not conducted while observing non-aggression principles, and the money isn't real -- it's not capitalism at all

Europe handles capitalism much better

Do you think pyramkd schemes are a scam? If so, the entire u.s. economy is a pyramid scheme. You may argue the u.s. isnt real capitalism, we can go back and forth about points like that all day, the point im making though, is that our economy, in its current iteration, is a scam. It is neo feudalism.

still way better than the alternative...

Definition of feminism 1: the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/feminism

Anything other than neutral equality is just sexism. Actual feminism doesn't ruin or sour anything.

that definition would fit better with genderism imo.

I disagree, i believe feminism to be a vessel by which women appropriate rights from men and give to women

But, they are wrong. Responsibility and reproduction are essentially the meaning of life. If you can transcend that; go for it.

I mostly see wholesale embracing of degeneracy.

Pride in being scummy.

Mainstream shiz.

Not sure how gender equality affects reproduction..

Apparently the people pushing traditional roles believe that reproduction is impossible outside of traditional roles, or if done outside of traditional roles it destroys humanity.

Ah yeah must have forgotten about that part.

Seriously? Have you thought that comment through at all?

Modern feminism seems, to me, to reject all femininity to the point of telling me that a man who says he's now a woman must be accepted as a woman.

I'm sorry, but that's bullshit. Our reproductive equipment does shape our lives to some degree.

Definitions are nice and all, but not really relevant in the real world, your comment adds nothing to the discussion. Would you date a feminist like Anita Sarkeesian? I know I wouldn't.

Just because radical people call themselves something doesn't mean you can't support the thing they're radicalizing. You don't hate all Christians just because of the Westboro Baptist Church.

^

This is why I love this subreddit. You guys are some of the most level headed people around.

but the westboro baptist church doesn't effect policy, mainstream feminism, like what's taught at university, is regressive and extreme

I mean, thats pretty arguable. Sarkeesian effects policy as much as westboro. And christianity as a whole definitely effects policy.

Yeah I know what you mean, but personally, I don't know anyone in real life that calls himself a feminist and means exactly that what the definition says it is, it's always more radicalized.

but not really relevant in the real world

So then, are you one of those people who thinks "male" and "female" are also terms that one can self-identify into?

lol no

I feel this. But at the same time, I see so many guys treat women as disposable. Everyone just wants to be "friends with benefits" these days. I don't know why it's so difficult for us to empathize with each other, especially the younger generation.

When chicks opt for the next best thing in a heartbeat, why treat them as if they are worthy of a long term investment?

The whole "strong independent womyn dont need no man" thing doesn't help at all. It only enhances the degenerate dynamic between the sexes.

The whole "strong independent womyn dont need no man" thing doesn't help at all. It only enhances the degenerate dynamic between the sexes.

Hear, hear.

Man isn't this a fuckin claim

Says something about the audience of the sub when it's got that many upvotes too.

maybe its true

why treat them as though they are worthy of a long term investment?

Isn't this a super fucked up way of looking at things? I don't spend time with my significant other because it's an "investment" that I'm going to cash in on someday, I do it because I legitimately enjoy spending time with them.

When chicks opt for the next best thing in a heartbeat, why treat them as if they are worthy of a long term investment?

Indeed. The level of selfishness I've seen from women in north america is extremely disappointing. The worst part is that they don't even realize how their emotions and programming control them, and begets the treatment of women as disposable. And why not? Men have longer 'shelf life' in the dating game. It's a gender dynamic both provoked and held in check by the losing side.

r/TheRedPill just keeps getting more popular and the methodologies better known yet these stupid bitches eat up this 'alpha male' bullshit regardless.

Wanna know what an 'alpha male' is ladies? It's a master. It's someone who you can relinquish agency to, because you think yourself to be lesser, and weak.

I honestly find the widespread 'beta female' mentality to be a major turnoff. I personally expect a partner who considers themselves to be equal.

Woah, I just went to the sub you linked to and it made me throw up in my mouth a bit... wtf lol.

Sounds good beta

When chicks opt for the next best thing in a heartbeat, why treat them as if they are worthy of a long term investment?

You mean like males are apt to do too?

Everyone wants relationships... Bring back casual sex and "relationships" without fine print

Because modern women act disposable

Source: Am woman, hang out with lots of women

can you expound on what you mean by that?

Most modern American women are sluts. They have no modesty or class, they bounce around from guy to guy for one night stands or short term relationships, they avoid self-reflection and taking personal responsibility for anything. They have no higher virtue or sense of duty, they just live on the hedonic treadmill. Men have always respected women who are respectable. The only women who are treated like disposable objects are the ones who act like disposable objects. Make yourself better, make yourself wife material, and you won't be treated like a cheap whore.

What if someone doesn't want to be wife materials? What's wrong with embracing sexuality?

Beyond that, what defines class? Class is generally just used to define traditional, prude gender roles in which sexuality is repressed and women are just treated as machines to breed more children with.

What defines good virtues anyway? Why is lust a sin? Because the old ways say so? Why should you even have a sense of duty, and what should this duty be towards? Towards the government? Towards reproduction? Towards the church?

Traditional gender roles have always existed to control people. They are not better, they're not more efficient. They are shackles.

The problem I think the other user is pointing to, is that when women don't want to be marriage material they can't on the other hand complain about not having quality men to choose from. What you put out into the world, comes right back at you.

I think a point the person before was reaching for was that with a lack of the old, traditional roles that played out in relationships many people, men and women included, lack direction in conducting relationships. Without an idea of what men and women are supposed to act like they are likely feeling pretty lost.

It may be true that old gender stereotypes were damaging to equality but a lack of constructs or "embracing sexuality" for instance is a nice thought but lacks guidance. I could tell someone it's best they embrace their sexuality but that could mean so many different things!

Maybe what people need is a foundation for cultivating relationships that is honest and fair. If a portion of women and men both feel disposable due to modern feminism or things related then that could possibly be a sign that although feminists aim to free women from stereotypes and gender roles they haven't replaced that cultural gap with anything of value. Or at least I would say anything substantial that leaves people feeling fulfilled.

I know many of my guy friends feel it's extremely difficult to get girls to give them the time of day, while in my own experience girls are allowed the choice of the litter so to say. Many girls that I know also lack any idea of what they would want in a man since his "traditional" role is dead in their mind. Because of this I see women cycle through many men unsure of what they want and men begin resenting that feeling of not knowing where they stand, what their value is to women.

On the other hand I think men not following the role of the provider has allowed them to game the system in some cases. An attractive man doesn't have to concern himself with respecting women or providing for them. He can talk himself into a 1 night stand and get sex, leave the next day and not have to worry about kids, marriage, responsibility etc.

It's definitely a bit from both sides and I probably went off topic but I feel like there needs to be new ideals to replace old ones. Not just a destruction of something that wasn't working 100% in favor of everyone.

Continue this a bit further. A woman today doesn't need to be bothered to care for a man.
A successful woman outright doesn't need one.
An unsuccessful one is increasingly given support through force by government socialism or through 'child' support so she also doesn't need to care for a man either.

So what does she 'need' him for? She only needs him if she wants to fuck now and again. Broadly you have your high-drive and low-drive women. The low-drive women will go through life and only ever have a couple of flings and be happy about it. They are essentially out-of-the-game. The high-drive women are all competing the for same top-tier sexually attractive men.

This is how it undoes a society. You are already acutely aware of how both genders already feel detached. What happens next is the men increasingly withdraw from society. Why try and be materially successful if it no longer matters? Why would you subject yourself to that kind of stress?
You're not going to date or marry the hot women. Chad gets to fuck them silly.
So make your peace with that and try to meet a nice, decent-looking, loving young woman to have a meaningful life with.
Well ... they are out there but it turns out you only have a 5% chance of marrying one of them. 30% of the time you end up married and miserable and the remaining 65% of time you end up divorced with your life and your children's lives' ruined. Who in their right-mind would take those odds? You would have to be an idiot or insane.

Our natural net growth rate is running at a 5% deficit and as more and more men withdraw from society this rate will increase until it collapses the society - the tell-tale mark being the government passing bachelor taxes in an last-ditch effort to try to steer the society back on course. Right now we are using immigration to prop us up.

I don't even entertain conversations anymore with people who just want to reduce everything to moral relativism and nihilism. It's the intellectual equivalent of a child going limp when his mother tries to pick him up.

Let me break this down to the bare basics for you then.

Traditional gender roles were created and pushed by those in power to keep people down. It kept women at home and with no voice, and it kept men too busy slaving away at work to fight against them. Gender roles are to the benefit of no one. They improve nobodies life. Doing away with them is the best thing we can do.

That's just complete nonsense

That never happened to the extent historical revisionists said it did, and to the extent it did happen, it was the result of an agricultural economy in the late 19th an early 20th century. There was no social insurance then, and no institutional child care. Men had to work to provide for their families and women had to help with the house and take care of the kids.

So you don't believe that men are 'wired differently' than women are?

Do you think they generally have the same strengths and weaknesses? Are they interchangeable other than the social constructs they put themselves in?

I think you missed her point...

Now both men and women need to work to survive on average, vs just the man making enough. Huge improvement...globalism is totally not turning everyone into slaves to a one world crony capitalist state.

What if someone doesn't want to be wife materials?

She already answered that:

Make yourself better, make yourself wife material, and you won't be treated like a cheap whore.

I'm fine with women not wanting relationships, and being sluts/skanks/whores. Whatever they want to be, go do. But they should be stripped of all the social welfare safety nets and be treated entirely equal. Equal prison sentences, no more planned parenthood, no more alimony, no more being the sole arbiter of reproductive rights, and a social focus on holding them fully accountable for their actions.

Equality is fine, but it's not what we have. Strip them of big daddy government, and I think this "strong, independent woman" talk will go extinct in about 2 weeks.

No more planned parenthood? Hold up. Planned parenthood is merely a reproductive health center. Men are just as able to receive healthcare as women at these centers, namely in the form of std testing, condoms, consultations, etc. the reason mostly women go to the centers is because mostly women have to deal with reproductive health problems. Is this not obvious? Why would you defund a public reproductive health center solely because 'mostly' women use it?

And regarding alimony: alimony is consistently paid by the partner who makes the most money and/or has greater assets than the other. It's not targeted at men, its merely targeted at whoever makes the most, which is usually men. You can advocate to abolish it if you wish, but it's important to understand this.

I agree with you on much of what you said. More assistance needs to be given to issues that largely affect men, such as homelessness etc. or, as you're suggesting, public social security could be defended entirely for everyone. Though I personally wouldn't regard that as a push for equality so much as a push for reversing what little good we've done as a society over the last hundred years.

No. No. No.

You have a strange idea of "holding them fully accountable for their actions" if that means taking away the means of being responsible for themselves by removing access to reproductive health services like Planned Parenthood. You want to deny access to medical care... because using medical care is irresponsible? Preventative care is irresponsible? Apparently?

Unless by Planned Parenthood you mean abortion, which doesn't make sense either. I mean, forcing child birth and therefore child support payments would go against your apparent philosophy. Unless you don't want child support payments either, and somehow think keeping children in poverty with a mother who didn't want them is somehow just? That men should just be allowed to walk away from a child they helped create and gave women no option to opt out of is somehow fair? You want women to be fully accountable for their sexual activities, but not men for theirs?

Or, you know, we could say a woman's "means" of being responsible for themselves is coming from themselves. We expect that of men. Let's start treating them like the adults they claim to be. That's what feminism was all about it. Not this nutcase syndrome where women are free to behave without personal or social responsibility to anyone. Neither did I agree to subsidize their mistakes.

That's why I'm MGTOW. I don't want that bullshit around me. I'm not adopting problems and assuming all the risk and responsibility.

So... you don't want to ban access to abortion? You don't want to ban access to reproductive health services? Do you want all tax money out of those services then? Not so much "no more Planned Parenthood" as much as "no more government subsidies for Planned Parenthood" then.

But women are also tax payers, shouldn't they get something back for the tax they pay, or a say in what their taxes go to pay? Or should we remove tax money from men's reproductive health services too, for fairness? No subsidies for the Pill or abortion, no subsidies for vasectomies or Viagra. Nobody's money going to anyone's sex lives except themselves. Would you be on board with that?

It doesn't quite work for abortion because it takes two to tango, but the woman receives the procedure and most of the benefit so let's ignore that.

yes.

It's a free country. Do as you please.

The problem comes when You Hit the Wall.

If all the values you espouse here make you happy, then great. What the original point was is that people dont' seem to be very happy living out these 'amazing revelations', and they seem more lost and lonely than ever.

You can disagree with this, but that is the claim. Going on some rant trying to reverse-shame anybody who might agree with this opinion isn't helping anything.

To answer your rhetoric, there is nothing wrong with any of what you say, but just like young men who never take shit seriously or settle down, we are seeing more and more of the female version of that, which is fine if everyone is happy.

Do you think that everyone is happy? Do you think that every woman who gives in to her lust and desires is proud of it, and do you think it has always come without consequence?

The world would be a wonderful place if we never had to answer for our actions or take responsibility. To create a loving relationship suitable for marriage, trust is a big thing, and for some, sexual history is a huge element of trust. That's just how we are hard-wired in terms of our psychology - how do we fight against that? and SHOULD we fight against that? There are clear evolutionary reasons for these behaviors... do we just forget those benefits and scream at the ocean for being blue?

What defines good virtues and what's wrong with lust? Basically, our fascination with sex and violence is part of our ancestral biology as ape people and we now are smart enough to rise above our primal instincts and not live as wild animals who do whatever desire crosses their minds. Moderation and self control is the key with any desire. Virtually everyone who is married or in a relationship usually wants their partner to be monogamous for that time together, which is why as a species we typically consider "cheating" as wrong and don't do it. Respecting each other and not wanting to damage relationships...ultimately another part of our dna as a highly social species, the need to conform and avoid loneliness or being cast out of the group. The only sense of duty we should have is to help each other and love each other as compassionately as possible. It takes constant reflection and battling our primitive genetic instincts.

Traditional gender rolls are based on our DNA, and more importantly, survival of the human race. Out down the feminism bullshit for a second and think about it, it's science.

How do you feel about the men who bounce around from woman to woman in one night stands? Do they have modesty and class? Are they "treated like disposable objects"?

No, they don't have class and I have more respect for virtuous men than man whores, but society has never viewed female and male promiscuity the same way and it never will, for various reasons. Men and women are different. There are good and bad things about being both, and I'm sick of people fucking whining about it and trying to twist nature into something it's not by treating men and women like they're the same. It's never going to happen and there's no reason it should.

Somehow I don't think you're the same type of woman as most.

I've enjoyed your perspective on this subject

Alright, I think this is just a disagreement on a basic level, I think that we should aim for equality but if you don't believe that I don't think I can convince you.

I used to think that too. But you're right, there's no way I could go back to that viewpoint.

The undercurrent that sweeps away your admittedly idealistic goal is that the perceptual problem isn't with men ... it's with women.
Women are the ones predominately responsible for slut-shaming et. al.
Women are the ones that want a sexually accomplished man.

I agree about slut-shaming, and I think that it can come from both sides although I won't go as far as to primarily blame women. Also, once again I disagree about what men and women want, I think that both of our viewpoints are anecdotal and don't have much basis.

I think that your point about a devoted and satisfying sex life gets to the real issue again - you're talking about women's sexual choices in terms of what men want, whereas if there were equality, they would be able to make their own choices.

It also seems like you're assuming that men can change their habits at will, but women are stuck in their nature, i.e. if a man sleeps around he can still be loyal to his wife later in life, but if a woman sleeps around she's likely to do it again even once in a committed relationship.

he's not assuming anything - he's saying that women want a guy who is accomplished in bed and makes them feel great, yet if he's slept around he gets shamed for being promiscuous. You can't reach the ideal without participating in the behaviors that are hated upon, and where is the sense in that?

if a man sleeps around he can still be loyal to his wife later in life, but if a woman sleeps around she's likely to do it again even once in a committed relationship.

There are studies that demonstrate this as a biological fact though. Women lose their ability to pair-bond the more sexual partners they've had and that number also highly correlates to marriage dissatisfaction/divorce. The same effect is not observed in men. I recall it has something to do with oxytocin (the lovey-dovey chemical) being released in women during sex.

Jesus, well said.

Not sure if you edited your comment but if you didn't then somehow I missed your extraordinarily hot take on female modesty. Why is the burden on the woman to cover up because men cant control themselves? That's simply outrageous. If you blame men cheating on the behavior of other women I have absolutely no respect for you. Men and women who cheat BOTH do it because of a lack of self control and loyalty to their partner. There is absolutely no reason to blame a woman for sleeping with a married man - this is exactly the kind of demonizing of women that occurs in religious fundamentalist communities, which seemingly you support. I sincerely hope you're trolling me and don't believe what you're saying because it's absolutely ridiculous.

What makes you think equality is even a good thing. Where are you getting the idea that men need to change what they are into something different and that also women need to be pushed in a particular way?

Because so far the results have been miserable.

It's basically sexual communism.

There's no such thing as equality even among men. Like for example I could beat the fuck out of you fairly easily. You're probably better at whining than me

Equality is the lie that feminism introduced. Men and women are not equal at all. You might think that mentally we can be equal, but this is impossible.

There is so much biology that is behind the scenes controlling the different ways men and women think. Eventually these differences are perpetuated and cemented into cultural norms.

It's impossible to reverse what 1000s of years of human history has led to. People will be much happier if they accepted their gender roles and accepted the other gender for their differences.

Eradicating natural differences is not equality. People are different and thus make different choices and different lives for themselves. Forcing equality of outcome is doing more harm than any supposed good.

This is equality of opportunity not outcome, I'm advocating that men and women should be able to behave the same not that everyone deserves to have a sexual partner.

Men and women are different. There are good and bad things about being both, and I'm sick of people fucking whining about it and trying to twist nature into something it's not by treating men and women like they're the same. It's never going to happen and there's no reason it should.

Damn right.

I hate to get all age-ist on people, but I often wonder how old some of you are.

This is not to treat you as children - I'm mostly curious about the environment in which you grew up. My childhood and young adult experiences may be very different than yours. I'm not saying I'm older and wiser (definitely older in some cases, not necessarily wiser), but I do have a longer timeline behind me.

Most of the political threads that wind up in here drive me completely NUTS because so many people act like the current situation is the end of the world, like shit wasn't totally fucked up in the 70s and 80s before you were born, and like the news hasn't always been mostly propaganda.

Title 9 made a big difference in my childhood and teen years, and now it's being destroyed by a radical agenda. That really pisses me off, as it means there will be no real opportunity for girls in power sports, only in very feminine sports that involve a panel of judges (figure skating, gymnastics). This is pretty much what Title 9 was supposed to fix, and now we're being pushed right back into that mindset under the guise of gender being a social construct.

If you don't see that part of the global agenda is designed to destroy the family and push us all towards moral relativism, I feel sorry for you, because it's unlikely that you'll lead a happy life. Eventually, you'll figure it out, but I hope it's not too late by then.

Men have always been treated as disposable objects.

But to your other points: The more sexual partners a woman has had, the less valuable she is to a man (seeking a wife, not a hookup).

I don't believe women operate under that same criteria towards men who have had many partners. In fact it seems that a man is more valuable to a woman if he is seen to be wanted by other women.

Sure, men can be more valuable if they are wanted by other women, but by that measure women can also be more valuable by being wanted by other men. What I'm asking is whether it's alright for men to sleep around and have many sexual partners, not whether it's alright for them to be desired by many women (without any comment on how many they sleep with). I'm not sure how men have been treated as disposable objects - maybe you could explain that yourself.

I'm not sure how men have been treated as disposable objects - maybe you could explain that

Who do we draft to die in a war? Who do we kill by the hundreds in every action movie and video game to save a single woman?
Who has the highest workplace accident rate?
Who gets to the lifeboats last on a sinking ship? When an invading army conquers a city, who is executed and who is kept alive?

Sure, men can be more valuable if they are wanted by other women, but by that measure women can also be more valuable by being wanted by other men.

Nope, that's not how men work at all. In fact it's the opposite if she's actually slept with any of them.

What I'm asking is whether it's alright for men to sleep around and have many sexual partners, not whether it's alright for them to be desired by many women (without any comment on how many they sleep with).

What do you mean "alright"? I'm talking about:

What the guy wants and how to achieve it.

What the woman wants and how to achieve it.

If the guy just wants to sleep around, having previously slept around isn't gonna hurt his odds. If he's looking for a good wife, again, that's probably not gonna hurt his odds.

If the woman just wants to sleep around, that's gonna be harder and harder the more she had previously slept around. If she's looking for a good husband, those odds tank hard if she's been promiscuous.

If the woman just wants to sleep around, that's gonna be harder and harder the more she had previously slept around. If she's looking for a good husband, those odds tank hard if she's been promiscuous.

This is the issue - the fact that women don't have the freedom to live their lives the way they want to (and the way many men do) without being shamed for it.

Who do we draft to die in a war? Who do we kill by the hundreds in every action movie and video game to save a single woman? Who has the highest workplace accident rate? Who gets to the lifeboats last on a sinking ship? When an invading army conquers a city, who is executed and who is kept alive?

Let me flip this around - who is always told they can't fend for themselves? Who is always shown as helpless and requires the strong men around them to be saved? Who is told to stay calm while the men fix the situation? To be clear, I believe that women should be drafted, I'm willing to agree that it's hypocritical for women to oppose being drafted. But, especially in the action movie case, women are always helpless and need to be saved, and can't do anything for themselves.

This is the issue - the fact that women don't have the freedom to live their lives the way they want to (and the way many men do) without being shamed for it.

How are they being shamed by being rejected? They are not the same thing. It's not like guys are turning down women and saying to them 'I am not interested because you slept with too many other mean' - it's a natural hormonal thing regarding trust and relationship. Again, you cannot argue with biology, and a woman who has had fewer sexual partners means something on a biological/psychological level to a man than a women who hasn't. It's not a social judgment thing like 'shaming', it's a preservation/evolution thing in regards to what men find attractive in a woman.

Basically, you are blaming evolutionary biology as if it's a choice. It's not, just as much as being homosexual or anything else like that might be. A guy cannot create sexual attraction towards a woman because you want it to be that way or because you feel it is unfair. She has to register as an attractive mate to him. There is nothing unfair about it.

who is always told they can't fend for themselves?

Women back in 1964? No young woman today is told they can't fend for themselves or get help. Why are you convinced we still live in the 1960s? I have a daughter myself and she'd punch you in nuts for that bullshit excuse.

Who is always shown as helpless and requires the strong men around them to be saved? Who is told to stay calm while the men fix the situation?

Again, this seems very anecdotal. Is your community very old-school in some way? Why are you speaking of mid-20th century platitudes as if they are still relevant?

But, especially in the action movie case, women are always helpless and need to be saved, and can't do anything for themselves.

Again, painting heavy strokes. My daughters favorite movie of the last year was Moana, which champions none of what you are claiming here. You are living in the past, and you're quite salty about it. Get over yourself.

This is the issue - the fact that women don't have the freedom to live their lives the way they want to

Today they have all the freedom to do what ever they want with their bodies, the sexual revolution gave them that.

What everyone forgets is that actions have consequences. And the more men a woman has slept with directly affects the chance of a stable marriage she is able to hold. The same is not true for men. There are studies on this, it's just not politically correct to talk about it because it is considered "slut shaming".

Link me to the studies? And tastes change over time, five hundred years ago attractiveness was determined in very different terms than it is now. I agree with you that women are considered less desirable if they've slept around but I disagree that it necessarily has to be that way and I hope that in the future both men and women can have autonomy without consequences.

Sure, here are some numbers from the CDC

http://i.imgur.com/NtuZXGX.jpg

Notice it's not just the probability of divorce that rises with women's partner count but also things like chances of being depressed.

There was also one study (can't find it right now but you should be able to google it easily) where some researchers did not like the results of previous studies that showed women's partner count affected marriage stability so they decided to do their own research.

Not only did they completely prove those previous studies to be true, they also found out that men's number of previous sexual partners did not affect marriage stability.

I hope that in the future both men and women can have autonomy without consequences.

Wishful thinking. I would like that also to be true but until we can somehow transcend our physical bodies we will forever be slaves to our biological realities.

And tastes change over time, five hundred years ago attractiveness was determined in very different terms than it is now.

Completely disagree with this one. Fashion may have changed and other minor details like that but the male and female traits (both biological and social) that are considered attractive have stayed the same.

• who is always told they can't fend for themselves? Who is always shown as helpless and requires the strong men around them to be saved? Who is told to stay calm while the men fix the situation?

Being protected from harm is literally opposite of being disposable.

Women are treated as valuable and feminism tells you that's oppression.

I love how you're comparing the very real downside of being sent to war, workplace injury, sacrificing yourself and being treated as less valuable to the possible emotional anguish of having someone do the hard things for you.

At least now we know that female empathy is not really an inherent trait...

Okay, I see your point. By that measure I suppose men are more disposable especially in being sent to die in wars. I think the bigger point I'm trying to make is that when women are seen in these movies and in pop culture as unable to help themselves, that carries over into real life where often their ideas are ignored and they aren't treated as valuable members of a team.

This is the issue - the fact that women don't have the freedom to live their lives the way they want to (and the way many men do) without being shamed for it.

I think you're confusing 'freedom' with 'godmode'.

You have the freedom to own a gun. But to become a marksman you need to practice.

You have the freedom to speak. But if you want anyone to listen, you've gotta be interesting.

You have the freedom to have sex. But if you want men to want you, you've gotta be desirable.

It's your life to do as you please, you still gotta succeed on your own.

I think you're confusing 'freedom' with 'godmode'.

Wow, that's awesome.

Nope, that's not how men think at all.

How would you know how men think?

Well, for one, it's clear he's a man. And second, these things used to be common knowledge. How far we've fallen. Meanwhile, since when did this sub absorb these delusional feminists? Feminism is like tier 1 conspiracy. People ITT need to rub the sleep from their eyes.

He sounds like a child to me. Then again, I come from an older generation than most of reddit, and my friends and peers, (40-55 punk rockers, metalheads, motorcycle riders and semi retired musicians and extreme athletes.) We raised our boys to respect women, and our girls to not take any shit and do what they wanted with their lives and not let immature dumbasses tell them what they are best suited to do. That kids sounds afraid of women, because he knows there are women out there who are better at doing things that make him feel "manly."

Do you understand that most men cannot just hop from woman to woman every other night or even a month?

Its only a selected few who can pull that off. That is why they are worshipped (not a fan of this).

Any woman, even a 2, can pull more dick per night that brad pitt or chris pratt.

No, men are not hopping pussy as frequently as you think they are.

This is what's harmful - you're pulling these claims out of your ass that it's physically difficult for men to sleep around whereas women can easily do it. Unless you give me evidence that this is true I can't take you seriously, you're just making huge generalizations that in my experience are simply not true.

Unless you give me evidence

Check out the incels sub. Now find me the female equivalent of that. I won't hold my breath.

From what I gather about that sub, it's people who can't get women because of attitude issues, not because of human nature. Also, let me point out the fact that you made a claim about "most men," and you pointed me to a subreddit with 20,000 people, which by any definition does not constitute "most men."

Also, let me point out the fact that you made a claim about "most men,"

I'm not the guy you responded to.

From what I gather about that sub, it's people who can't get women because of attitude issues, not because of human nature.

You should go there and tell them, I bet they will be thrilled to hear that you found a solution to their problems: They simply need to change their attitudes!! (I mean, are you serious?)

My bad on the first part it's getting confusing keeping all the replies straight.

On the second part I meant that semiseriously, I'm sure that they don't feel that way about themselves and I understand that it's something that gives them a lot of consternation, but anecdotally I also know people like that and it usually takes the form of blaming the world for their issues which only makes the issue worse. I obviously wouldn't tell that to the people over there, but I think that attitude is a part of it. I'm not sure if you're a member of that sub but I'd be interested in hearing why you think they have so much trouble.

I'm not sure if you're a member of that sub

I'm not a member, but I do like to read it from time to time.

I'd be interested in hearing why you think they have so much trouble.

The main causes of their problem are the sexual revolution and the female mating strategy. Throughout history females have always had easier access to sex than males as seen by the fact that we have twice as many female ancestors as male ancestors. Females have always wanted to reproduce with men with high quality genes (i.e. attractive men). Before the sexual revolution this behavior were for the most part kept in check. Even a man with low quality genes could expect to find a woman to marry and have children with. After the sexual revolution this would no longer be the case as females would rather share the top 20% of men since this would give them access to high quality genes for their offspring. This implies that the other 80% of men will have less chance of having sex than they would before the sexual revolution and thus, you get a quite large percentage of men who are involuntarily celibate.

Alright well in that case I wholly disagree. There is no evidence that only 20% of men reproduce. Considering the fact that the U.S. population is consistently increasing I find it almost impossible. I truly believe that many members of that sub are stuck in a self-fulfilling prophecy which I also sort of ascribed to in the past, but it's based on assumptions that are simply not true.

There is no evidence that only 20% of men reproduce.

I never said that. What I said was that less men will reproduce now compared to before the sexual revolution.

Considering the fact that the U.S. population is consistently increasing

Have you not heard of immigration? It's common knowledge that the birth rate among white europeans and white americans (people who were affected by the sexual revolution) is dwindling.

I truly believe that many members of that sub are stuck in a self-fulfilling prophecy

I agree that this probably is the case for some of them.

but it's based on assumptions that are simply ot true.

I disagree and this is why I read the sub from time to time. Instead of looking at reality through rose tinted glasses, like most people tend to do, they see and analyze things for what they really are which I find refreshing in today's overly politically correct world.

studs are high value, sluts are low value.

Do they have modesty and class? Are they "treated like disposable objects"?

in family/divorce court they are. if you get lucky enough to find a girl that likes you, your job, your baggage (or lack thereof), your friends, your living situation, and your income enough to marry you, you better hope she doesn't ever find any greener grass, even for a second. infidelity is much more rampant and much easier to conceal. that 'friend she told you not to worry about'? you should be worried. if he seems more appealing that your stale act, even for a weekend or so, you could lose your ability to be a proper father or lose at least half of your assets. what is a guy to do when faced with that gauntlet?

I was specifically talking about men with many sexual partners. I would say that those men are treated just like anyone else, whereas men "don't want women who have slept around." I agree that the divorce court stuff is fucked up, but that just means you need to make sure you have a healthy and fulfilling relationship and not get caught in that situation.

girls don't want guys that have slept around either, and these days it's damn near impossible to keep under wraps if you're a man whore type.

I disagree with that statement but I at least appreciate your consistency.

some people can dismiss promiscuity, some can't. if you exhibit untrustworthy/'can't be tied down' behavior, people might not trust you. it's not a male/female thing.

however, before social media it was a) harder to find people to cheat with but also b) much easier to conceal cheating from your partner because there was just less spread of information. also, if a married woman cheats and gets caught, she can expect primary custody of any children she had with her husband and at least half of his assets, so there's much less risk. if you're saying women today see a guy who's promiscuous and think 'i have less of a chance of getting him to marry me', that's not the same thing as disliking promiscuity itself.

Sure, that's a valid viewpoint. What I have more of an issue with is those who think that women need to prove their loyalty for a future marriage by not sleeping around while men need to sleep around to be desirable to women. As I said I don't agree with you on whether promiscuity is bad but I understand what you're saying.

those who think that women need to prove their loyalty for a future marriage by not sleeping around

i'm not sure who thinks that other than incels.

while men need to sleep around to be desirable to women.

not one girl i've ever met has held this viewpoint. it doesn't really even stand to reason.

Yeah, these are points that have been brought up by previous people in this thread. I think they're pretty ridiculous.

Maybe you should spend a little less time judging people?

I was simply answering the person's question. Why do men treat women like they're disposable? Because most of them are. Can you expound on that? And then I did.

If anything our society could use more judgement. It's a necessary social regulatory mechanism that we're severely lacking.

Sounds like someone is bitter and hates women. I bet you think Sharia Law is great. You need some help.

Lol I don't hate women, I am one.

So you are a woman. Doesn't mean you still don't hate women. And most American women are not sluts. I don't believe in organized religion or marriage but I know I am not a slut. Been with my boyfriend for 13 years. He is the only one I want to be with. So according to you I am a slut because I don't believe in those traditional sense. I am also not a feminist. But you just keep on making vague assumptions of American women. You can keep your sharia law too and shove it.

most women

And I do know some who are sluts that go on to have happy marriages. But you just keep on assuming and get bent you sharia law loving turd.

Lol, fringe anecdotes aren't useful. I used to believe the things you believe and get just as offended as you when I heard dissenting opinions, but it's weird- when you accept nature and reality as it is rather than as you wish it was, it breaks up the cognitive dissonance in your psyche and you gain a sense of peace you didn't have before. I feel no desire to call you names, I have no negative feelings toward you, nothing. But a year ago, when I was lost in flimsy ideology, I reacted to things just as you're doing now. I took things personally, I got offended and upset, I thought people who said things like this "hated women," I had tunnel vision.

You may not "believe in all that traditional crap" but all that traditional crap believes in you, and it will affect you all the same, just like if you jump off a cliff you'll fall to your death whether or not you believe in gravity.

Your beliefs are misguided and disempowering.

Not misguided at all . But you sure are.

What serial-monogamy really means is "you don't do orgies".

I think he means not investing too much too early, but I could be wrong. Seems to have happened to me enough times and also to women I've been with.

I actually agree with this, but not "disposable"; "Interchangeable".

Most men I've seen that have issues finding happy relationship are the ones that the MGTOW crowd would say are "putting pussy on a pedestal", only it's a specific one.

If you don't get hung up on a specific woman, if you learn to take hints whether she's romantically interested in you or not, you'll be happier. Men are taught to be persistent, but that results in guys finding a girl they like, focusing only on that one woman, and then getting hurt and upset if she doesn't feel the same way.

It's better for men AND women to accept that it's just healthier all around to never put a specific person on a pedestal until you have an actual relationship with them.

It's better for men AND women to accept that it's just healthier all around to never put a specific person on a pedestal. until you have an actual relationship with them.

FTFY

thank you. I know more women that push for hook up culture than I do men.

That is the result of no-fault divorce and the emergence of the QAB, the Quintessential American Bitch.

When women feel entitled to free stuff, to be dined and wined, to be pampered, that's when you know you treat a woman as disposable. If women were ladylike, and weren't entitled, then men would show respect and wouldn't see women as disposable fucktoys.

You are totally right, also I'm glad someone is also fighting the cancer that is society as well. Stay strong and know that you are right.

Just because you're an incel loser who blames feminism for his troubles and invents strawmen about how women hate all men, doesn't men people don't go on dates anymore, or don't have relationships.

Women not liking you because you're a weird creep who rants about SJWs doesn't mean society hates men.

What? The first thing SHE says about herself is she's a female....

Uh huh. And I'm a spooky lizard ghost.

Wow I didn't know your kind could type.

r/nothingeverhappens

You didn't read the post.

OP is a woman...

You need to stop spraying dick repellent. Do you live with cats?

Only weird creep I see here is you. A insecure one at that.

Removed. Rule 4. Final Warning.

It's our culture, and not feminism. I know this because I've been studying Dutch culture. There men and women are equal and have none of the problems that you list. It sucks for us because we can't change our culture.

same as sweden. in sweden saying you hate feminism is fighting words all around.

1. Are you saying men and women aren't equal in America?

2. Fertility rates have been negative and dropping in Sweden since 2007 (I didn't look up Netherlands). This means Swedish people aren't making enough babies to replace themselves. That's a huge problem and also why the government is so keen on immigration. Population growth is required to sustain capitalism.

I was responding to OP's thoughts on mail order brides, and how women are supposedly better off at home. OP didn't mention anything about birth rates, which is irrelevant anyway since the Netherlands is one of most population dense places in Europe (30th in the world).

Societies with the highest ratings of "equality" have some of the lowest birthrates. I am saying these phenomena are related and that it is a problem.

With 7 Billion people, I think it's not a problem. In fact, western society was better after the plague; the peasants got more rights and better pay. With robots taking all the jobs, more people will not be better.

It's not a problem because of population, it's a problem because it creates economic uncertainty. Capitalism requires perpetual economic growth which requires perpetual population growth. Stunted population growth equals stunted economic growth equals a failing economy.

Like I said in my other comment, this is why Western civilisation is so keen on immigration all of a sudden.

Yup. You made great points.

As human beings we don't really fucking need to keep growing our population and 7 billion is already ridiculous. But countries don't mind it at all because a growing population obviously helps grow an economy.

The world has enough food for 7 billion people and more. What the world can NOT handle is the fact that only 5 people own 50% of the world's wealth or that an extreme insignificant number of people own 99% of the world's resources - that is the problem.

The world has enough for 7 billion people but that os not sustainable. In 1900 there was 1.6 billion.

It is not going to end well...and plus we just don't need that many people. If every couple only had one kid our population would actually go down so it isn't hard to reverse the trend.

But goodluck trying to "force" people to stop having kids when we eventually have 11 billion people.

The problem is not so much population but the disparity of worldwide wealth control.

Yes that is a problem..but I'm also mentioning a problem that is obviously going to bite us in the ass later on.

Do we really need to keep tearing down forrests and building houses and buildings? There is going to be serious food and water shortages in the future.

There is enough water in one of the 5 major lakes alone to provide water for humanity for indefinitely.

The amount of wasted food just in the US alone is enough to feed all starving people on Earth.

Do we really need to keep tearing down forests and building houses and buildings?

No we don't, but it is not 'we', but the few who push for it instead.

There is going to be serious food and water shortages in the future.

There wouldn't be if we all share the wealth and ban usury.

Your opponent is preaching open boarders, a New World Order concept to destroy nationhood, to create a One World Corporate Government. They are also very keen on wars thus the reduction of 7 billion people on Earth.

Feminism is indeed the cause as the OP mentioned but is by no means the root problem.

I'm Dutch. You know why we have kids late or not at all? Because life's fucking awesome if you're both working in your twenties and can do everything you want. It's also shit to put a child on a planet that will be utterly utterly fucked in 50 years or so.

If I was a girl I wouldn't give up my young career to raise a kid hell no I worked to hard for this shit.

I don't see the conspiracy

Remind me to talk to you when you're in your twilight years.

If we're not the modern Atlantis yet by than, sure.

You know why we have kids late or not at all? Because life's fucking awesome if you're both working

aka kids are a burden and work is pleasure, well who am I to disagree? But I know people who will and that's centenarians worldwide who claim that secret for longevity is FAMILY, big FAMILY.

You know why we have kids late or not at all? Because life's fucking awesome if you're both working

You are NOT a girl, thus you have no concept that women have different needs. Those needs include having children in their mid 30s but by then they are too old for most men to care about them, hence "where have all the good men gone" plus "freezing eggs", etc.

Your country like the rest of westernized countries are going into a negative growth, this is very bid danger for the future of those countries, because birth rate stats don't lie.

Meh I don't really care about skin color so I'm fine with immigrants assimilating and upping the birthdate (for 1 maybe 2 generations before our lifestyle catches up with them and their birth rate is the same as we've seen in my country). We're seriously fucked anyway because there's no fucking way we're taking climate change even remotely serious in the foreseeable future.

Seriously how retarded are these conspirators? Spending all this effort to destroy our culture by immigration but not bothering saving the planet they live on? Any belief in some kind of nwo organization flew out the window as soon as I realized how hilariously incapable we are as a society to take any serious steps at preserving our planet.

Yikes. It's not everyday you see the plague being praised. Capitalism does not require perpetual economic growth or population growth as tuyguy also mentioned, merely a sustainable system. The debt based system the US has created does, but that is not a function of capitalism. However, socialism does require this as the pyramid scheme grows. Same for the pyramid scheme of social security in the US.

On the topic of jobs and robots, a productive economic system isn't based on job creation, it's based on value creation. You seem to be falling into the Luddite camp with these thoughts.

Capitalism isnt any less of a pyramid scheme than socialism tbh.

Population growth to sustain capitalism? How about socialism? Or any pyramid system in general?

I'm not sure what you mean. I'm certainly not adverse to discussing socialism though, capitalism has stopped working but I can't see them changing it any time soon short of an apocalypse.

i wish people would differentiate between financial capitalism and physical capitalism. financial capitalism is bad and physical capitalism is good. few people would argue against using tools as a means of production, but its the rightful ownership of those tools that is debatable.

i wish people would differentiate between financial capitalism and physical capitalism. financial capitalism is bad and physical capitalism is good. few people would argue against using tools as a means of production, but its the rightful ownership of those tools that is debatable.

I agree.

Similarly democracy is great in theory, but we don't live in one.

And even true democracies aren't without its serious drawbacks.

It's really population growth to support economic growth, which is not exclusive to capitalism.

Men and women have never been equal in America.

Can you explain why you think they aren't equal right now?

Because politician says said so.

or anywhere in history for that matter

Do you mean oranges aren't equal to apples?

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"

Sounds about right

Population growth is required to sustain socializism.
Capitalism will do fine with a stable population.

There is a problem with how society treats women in general. I work a sales job and in training they went over some of the customers we'd encounter. One of them was the guy that makes creepy comments toward a female rep.

They literally prepare female rep for perverse comments because they know it's going to happen. And it does.. a lot.. I hear about it daily from the group of 15 I talk to.

Lol I used to work in a call center and it happens to men too. But I'm glad you based your post off of your single anecdotal experience

He didnt say it was but your being willfully ignorant if you think the sheer rate at which those things happen is even comparable

It's very common to want to externalize faults to some group you belong to. I think it has something to do with being low self-esteem and wanting to attribute your faults to others so you're less alone. Combine that with different groups being on the receiving end of different kinds of abuse and you can make a case for how only this or that group are victims to this or that type of abuse when it's really just picking cherries.

A common example is how abusive gaming culture is towards women, especially online. Women are the targets of abuse online. So are men. The abuse for each is different and when you only focus on people yelling out make-me-a-sandwich abuse and ignoring the I-fucked-your-mom abuse, of course it looks like women are over-represented in receiving abuse.

It's cherry-picking and confirmation bias. We ignore certain problems that men face and think only women face those problems.

I know its anecdotal and meaningless in the grand scheme, but i work at a gas station and the fucking creepy shit i see women have to put up with from men, especially older white men, is appalling. Ive never seen a woman look at a man the way some of these dudes just openly oggle some women. The comments i get from some of them after a woman leaves are disturbing as well

especially older white men

Want to know how I know you're cherrypicking?

Im not cherry picking. If you cant see what the mindset of the 50s and 60s does to people thats your own fault.

This is a great post - Anita Sarkesian's entire career and existence is based around receiving "hateful" and "abusive" messages. The very same ones I got from my first few experiences on internet message boards and chatrooms.

At ten years old.

Grow the fuck up.

happens ot men but you have to be, you know, attractive.

I mean maybe I don't have an attractive voice but ya know..

I have a deep voice and worked customer service in high school. Let me tell you, old ladies can be fucking creepy.

I've always flirted with older ladies. They're harmless and having a bit of sassy fun.

If you are even moderately attractive as a guy and ever have a delivery job, you will see this exact behavior from women, especially older women. I cannot recount the number of creepy come-ons that older women made toward me when I was a delivery guy.

Love that last point there. The purpose of reproduction and all of human existence is clearly to sustain capitalism.

Love that last point there. The purpose of reproduction and all of human existence is clearly to sustain capitalism.

First (total) fertility rates can't be negative. Second the Dutch government is not pushing immigration anymore. (Without taking into account the refugee crisis of the last years which is a highly controversial and is highly dependent on EU and international treaties.) The Netherlands have seen higher numbers of emigration as immigration (2010).

Furthermore, capitalism is not dependent on population growth. Actually I will argue the opposite. In Western countries values born within a capitalistic society have pushed away values that are more traditional in nature. In most societies the traditional notion of succes was the size of family one could support. These days the emphasis is less on the amount of children or the religious connotation that one should bear many children but on the material wealth and the social position one acquired in the corporate system.

Of course an abundance of labour will benefit the capital holders in a capitalistic system. This is rarely done by pushing up the fertility rate on a national level but through automatisation. Less labour dependence weakens the position of workers as jobs become scarce. This will shift more power to capital holders (the largest multinational organisations).

Population growth is required to sustain capitalism.

capitalism doesn't require population growth. socialism and entitlement spending does.

Since feminism is part of our culture in the west, it's intertwined

I've seen the same thing in the Scandanavian counties I've visited. Both the men and women I stayed with seem much happier than the American couples I know.

Good luck Sweden.. go visit in the next couple years and report back.

...

Nah

There is Egalitarianism not Feminism in the Netherlands.

It's American Feminism that is the problem though...

swedish feminism is even worse so no its not america feminism. feminism is the tool of the elites that is the rea

like "fuck men". I grew up with a father who cheated and abused my mom, that's all I knew. But after working with a bunch of good men, I know they have empathy, intelligence, and have strengths that I don't have. It's ok, we are genetically different. Women are better as "stay at home", or jobs with caring and tending to, it's what we internally register with.

I'm dutch and believe me we do have these problems. Whatever movement that's coming from the US will come over to the Netherlands.

Like the movement #CurvePower we have here. Women that are so obese, they are close to a heart attack. But they are portrayed as strong women.

Also entitled women here using the system to get control over the kids, even when the father is better for the kids. I'm 29 now and I see many relationships having these type of problems. A woman calling the police and telling that the father is abusive, so she could get him out of the house.

The elite want us fighting. It's never about equality anymore.

I believe you have some cognitive biased here. Actually put some graphs side by side. The same rates of singleness and marriage are affecting all modern societies. Netherlands isn't an exception. Some countries are a little more extreme, some a little less extreme, but all still on the same trend.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Marriages_and_births_in_the_Netherlands

"Nevertheless, more than half of Dutch adults are married, while two-thirds are in some form of partnership. Marriage does not appear to affect the Fertility; while women increasingly give birth outside marriage, fertility remains relatively high at around 1.7 children per woman."

exactly, births outside of marriage, which is the same problem world wide as well... the words.... correspond with the graphs, which corresponds with graphs from other countries.....

I don't think it's apples to apples, when Dutch people prefer domestic partnerships over marriage. But yes, single parenthood and welfare has increased there.

Well, birth rates have also been on the decline... like all the other first world countries, married or not..... It's been a whole first world issue for quite sometime. I don't mind the modern world... i don't think it's good or bad... but to think one is immune is just plain wrong.

Also a multiracial female here; I used to consider myself a feminist in the past, but with what it morphed into today, I don't want to associate with it. My friends that are still feminists are all single, miserable, and in their 30s now. They spend all their time on social media, constantly posting pictures of themselves and their ideologies. The single 30-something men I know are literally opposites to the feminists. Neither side want to compromise.

I'm married and my friends that are still married (2 out 12 now), say the same thing. It's compromise and communication. Social media has killed those two things. Thus it has killed relationships across the board. Think of the divide that happened in the 2016 elections and the relationships that ended. The people that are in the middle are doing fine, it's the people in the extremes that are struggling with finding a relationship.

Still fighting for that social justice eh?

$20 says this is OP's alt.

Yup. Another $20 says that's a boy behind these antifembots. Definitely an ignorance adolescent.

I won't take that bet. I don't want to lose money.

Where's the $20? I don't know OP

Eh, my relationship would be called feminist by most standards. We've never had a big fight, he seems happy enough.

The current face of feminism is very...young. Lots of empowered teenagers lashing out at things they don't understand, and lots of grownups cynically exploiting them. I'm gonna scream if I see another ad for that Bold Type show.

I would advise against taking any of this stuff too seriously, since spinning away to the opposite end of the spectrum is just as unhealthy. Treat women like people, and avoid the women who think they are goddesses. That might mean adjusting your standards, if you're struggling with the women you meet now.

We're all just people. Be positive about finding a person you enjoy and you'll find someone. Stewing about the state of the world won't attract the kind of woman you're looking for.

It seems many people have forgotten the concept to live and let live.

Except that people in this thread are asserting that this new evolution of feminism goes against that very concept. Third wave feminists don't want live and let live, they want society to acquiesce to their biased world view. They're hypocrites

Yeah but the thing with them if you can live your life completely ignoring them and I don't think anything would be different. I used to browse tumblrinaction and other subs like that and I stopped for a while and when I did I realised that it doesn't matter and the vast majority either doesn't care or thinks that most SJWs are idiots.

You're capable of doing that; I'm not sure everyone is, especially younger or more impressionable people. Even then, you're still affected by it, these people are your coworkers, teachers, neighbors, family...

God damn this is what most of Reddit needs to do. There's a whole world outside of TiA and T_D, people!

Oh yes, I'm agreeing with that. People try to force their expectations of what a woman (or man for that matter) should be in their view. So what if a woman wants to be an executive? A house wife? It's their life and it's strange to shame people for making their own decisions that don't effect anyone else.

That's pretty much what I meant. People try to force their expectations of what a woman (or man for that matter) should be in their view. So what if a woman wants to be an executive? A house wife? A butch? Whatever. It's their life and it's strange to shame people for making their own decisions that don't effect anyone else

I just want to kill.

The current face of feminism is very...young.

Holy shit do I agree with this. It's like a bunch of children are running the conversation. It's hard to keep up, and things just get crazier as I get older.

When I was a kid, I thought "the goal" in society was for men and women to be equal. Things like platonic friendships were the ideal. As I got older, however, it seems like society is actually getting MORE separated between all identifying lines, not just sex.

Treat men and women like people, and avoid anyone who demands special treatment for any reason. If a woman has the capacity to be a rocket scientist, we shouldn't waste her potential. If she wants to be a stay at home mom, she shouldn't be shamed over it. It's that easy.

Yes, it is.

It's a mechanism to push for The State over the Family Unit. There are thousands of other ideas doing the same thing and causing purposeful friction as the ideas cross which entrench both ideas and give birth to new ideas that also lead a "Free" citizen to demand that the State raise and take care of them.

It's not just feminism, it's the overall decay of a civilization. When people no longer want to be civilized and instead turn to hedonism you get a whole lot of symptoms, one of them is feminism.

BTW, I have a feeling that birth control is FAR more hazardous than anyone makes it out to be. Hormonally AND neurologically.

have a feeling

do you have any research or evidence

No, not my area of research/expertise, which is I why I said I have a feeling and not "I have data". I'm sure if there were any research on such a thing, it'd not be released to the public.

Jeez how annoying this place has gotten recently haha

Do you want to learn more? Ask me things. I can actually answer some questions on this subject.

You're right. Birth control increases estrogen in females, which is not the female hormone Big Pharma would have you believe, but a stress hormone which is why it makes women infertile. Being infertile effects the entire body, including the mind/mood. Men that are infertile have a lot of psychological issues and women get similar problems from birth control; think overemotional, impulsive, crazier, basically less fit to be a mother...

So much of what you said is factually untrue that it's astounding. Where did you learn this?

For many years I have studied nutrition, a subject which is intertwined with hormones and psychology.

Yes. Want to read more? Sweetening the Pill: or How We Got Hooked on Hormonal Birth Control by Holly Grigg-Spall

Man stfu. Tired of this bizarre anti-birth control movement.

FFS I want to fuck my wife and NOT HAVE KIDS. I don't want kids!! Not right now! So stop this bullshit and stop raising taxes on it and stop trying to scare people away from it.

Jesus.../endrant

It's not sinister. It has to do with how birth control affects your hormone levels. It's not intentionally dangerous, but doctors tend to downplay the side effects and long-term risks.

Like how it affects how you're attracted to men? Pairs you with men you'll have fertility incompatibilities issues, if you want to have kids. That's a eugenic program if I ever saw one.

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/topmindsofreddit] Feminism killed everything beautiful in life, women should just stay at home

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I feel like feminism isn't to blame for this. I know several feminists that have boyfriends or are married.

If you're talking about the millennial generation, I think it has more to do with the fact that everyone's poor, or in college or both. It's not a problem on it's own but culturally people feel like they should have some money and independence before pursuing a relationship. Like if you have to live with your parents, you probably aren't going to pursue a long term relationship.

Agreed. Even if OP is right, a specific type or wave of feminism should be called out? It's like a 100 year movement, seems extreme to brand the whole thing as bad.

I'm really interested in what OP is saying, but I wish she would be more specific. I don't doubt feminism causes problems for some people but I personally haven't seen it.

polkadotgirl has a great discussion below if you haven't read it.

OP reminds me of the "cool" girls who try to distance themselves from other women by putting all the other women in an "undesirable" box.

It's divide and conquer, but no one seems to bat an eyelash because hey, "fuck bitches" right? No one gives a shit if it's happening to them.

you personally haven't seen it. ok. let me help you start off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6W1N_iq7YTg

literally just type "feminism" and enjoy the horror.

So is this more of a frustration with the general societal construct we find ourselves in nowadays or the way that the feminism movement, from your perspective, has reacted to it? I know plenty of post-college millennials, regardless of their gender, who are more concerned with working enough hours to make ends meet financially than investing time and money into finding a significant other to settle down with. 2 jobs takes up a hell of a lot of time, and the fact that the general trend of working 50+ hours a week just to get by may be the root of the problem.

Ironically, settling down and living with a partner who also works full time definitely lessens the financial burden that many people feel when trying to live on their own. So is it the burdens of the current economy that keep us sleeping around in baseless, short-lived relationships or is it the desire to sleep around that keeps us struggling to keep up in this economy?

Ngl relationships have always been trash.

Forced monogamy

Shit tier concepts of relationships

Partners have to "fix" you

Having higher standards for your partner than for yourself.

Well I am a single male going on for about 15 years now. I gave up dating long ago, the reasoning for it is it just isn't worth the risk involved. The drama one needs to go through even to find someone compatible is enough of a deterrent. Then the time commitment, years of life, which will typically end in tears every time. We're not monogamous by nature, most of us are selfish and have a very difficult time in thinking outside our own view. The only reason why marriages lasted as long as they did during our grandparents generation is due to women being stuck in their situation.

I think the problem is our media dictates unexpected realities for relationships. Women still need to "look" a certain way, and men need to "behave" a certain way. Women may be more independent, but the same social stigmas are still in play. Many folks decide to try to marry in their 20's, we're still figuring ourselves out at this age, and we change. Often times we do not change together.

My lady and I both work. I have a job she has a job. It's mutual team work. I help with laundry and chores just like she does. We raise our children with love. However , we know our roles. I'm the disciplinarian and she's the nurturer. My children do not disrespect my wife. They treat their mom (my wife) with respect. We are equal across the board. But at the end of the day we know our roles.

r/incels

Op is a woman.

Yeah and that doesn't change the fact that this whole thing reads like an /r/incels post.

Looks like the top minds of Reddit crossposted this. Welcome friend.

Looks like I've never posted in top minds before, and have been posting in /r/conspiracy for quite some time. Try again, pal.

Not from there, and this is definitely something I'd expect to see in /r/incels.

If you don't agree with feminism, you're an incel? Interesting logic.

If your talking points are incredibly similar to those of /r/incel, then you really need start thinking differently about you're having trouble getting a girlfriend or boyfriend.

r/incels are cool.

I know, I read her post. That doesn't change anything at all though.

Claims to be anyway.

I understand MGTOW and why its happening, its a knee jerk reaction to Feminism but doesnt solve the problem. It just creates further separation so your Rockefeller backed theory might hold a LOT of truth to it which I never even considered.

How do we combat this, or is it too late?

It's never too late. You start with a bottom up approach by solving all the challenges in your own life. If you cant solve your own problems how can you help create solutions for millions of other people that are looking for the same answers (money/business idea for those of you out there). It also takes time, dont get discouraged if you fall off the horse, just get back on and try again

Did you just blame feminism for female exploitation? This subreddit is insane! You guys are constantly putting your finger on the jugular and looking up and telling the rest "his colon is impacted". You get information that doesn't lead to a proper conclusion. Stop filling in blanks with nonsense and learn how to research, let's do something good together.

Women are better as "stay at home", or jobs with caring and tending to, it's what we internally register with.

This is just pseudo-scientific bullshit.

There is no evidence whatsoever that women are "genetically" inclined to stay at home. In fact, it's ridiculous to assert that, since the role of women as caretakers and men of earners is relatively modern.

During times when our actual genome was formed, all evidence points towards women being just as important in the aquisition of food and shelter as men.

And even if it was true, it's a prime example of the naturalistic fallacy. Even if women were "genetically" inclined to be stay at home moms (which again, there is no evidence for whatsoever) that does not mean that that is a desirable state of affairs. Women should be able to do whatever they want.

Honestly, you do name a few problems of modern society. However, you completely fallaciously attribute those to some nefarious "feminism" instead of complex interaction of all kinds of societal processes. You do not raise one single argument about why feminism is the cause of all these problems.

You could replace feminism with "the jews" or "clowns" and the post would make the same amount of sense, since you never lay out one argument that shows the supposed causality between feminism and the problems you mention.

Bearing children pretty much puts you out of the workforce for several years. Unless you don't mind having children raised by random people other than parents.

Either way, a lapse of a year isn't good for keeping pace with a job.

It doesn't necessarily put a woman out of the workforce for several years. Stay-at home dads are a real thing, and even then they are never raised by "random people other than parents". The idea of wet nurses, or people who care for other people's children isn't some new feminist idea.

How does a dad breast feed? Men aren't built for this so why fight nature?

Men aren't primary care givers by design. They are secondary.

First off, natural is not always good. Anyone who tries to argue that because something originated that way or is natural in some way automatically loses credibility.

Secondly, by using milk formulas like many breast-feeding capable mothers do anyway. Welcome to the 21st century.

Third, excellent job avoiding the topic of wet nurses being a well known and long standing idea.

Finally, stop trying to push this shitty idea of a family unit. The nuclear family as an idea exists to push propaganda and control the religious.

Lol, synthetic breast milk isn't fit for pigs. Enjoy your cancer babies.

Citation please

Citation that isn't propaganda/Alex Jones.

I'm going to ask you pass a CAPTCHA first. It's not even a conspiracy that breast milk is better than synthetic/goat/engine oil/cows milk/nestle.

Do you even google?

Do you even logic? Just because breastmilk might be better doesn't mean formula is toxic. Stop being a scaremongerer and get enlightened.

Despite the rudeness and condescension of those arguing with you, they are correct, there is a large amount of research demonstrating that breastfeeding has a statistically significant positive effect on cognition, both in childhood and later in life.

That's not what I'm asking for a citation for. I'm asking for a citation for his claim that formula causes cancer/is bad for you in general.

I'm well-aware of the benefits of breastfeeding.

I'm not aware of synthetic breast milk causing cancer, no, but most would consider a lifetime of reduced cognitive ability a pretty strong negative.

I would consider disclosing this as well as information on maternal teratogen consumption an important part of any sexual health education program.

The way we evolved dictates our gender roles, dictates what makes us feel accomplished or depressed, dictates what types of food we can eat, and what types of plants will poison us.

Evolution intended breast feeding to do more than simply provide food to the helpless baby.

Deny your evolution at your own peril.

Actually no, the way we evolved dictates none of that. The way we evolved doesn't dictate gender roles, if it did women would still be out gathering food while men protect the home. Evolution doesn't dictate what makes us feel depressed or accomplished, otherwise we'd still be ecstatic over finding berries in a bush and terrified when the sun goes down.

Evolution has little effect on the mental state of the average human. Society is what dictates that. Society said that women should stay at home, and that men should work. Society says that we should feel happy when our political party wins and depressed when the other does. Society is what dictates that.

You're drowning in a fantasy in which your narrow world view isn't just correct, but genetically engraved into us. Deny reality at your own peril.

Women feel good caring for other people, it makes them feel more accomplished and lowers their stress levels. This is why women dominate teaching, nursing, psychology, baking, and jobs like secretaries. Men feel good when they finish a task, giving up makes men feel depressed, even if it is just a video game they can't beat. And men choose professions where they take risks or accomplish projects. Most men would not feel good being a secretary or checking the vitals on random patients everyday. If men aren't working towards a goal that interests them they will feel bored and unfulfilled.

And, your stress hormones do increase when the sun goes down. Buy a saliva cortisol test at your nearest drug store and see for yourself.

This is why women dominate teaching, nursing, psychology, baking, and jobs like secretaries.

No, women dominate those jobs because for a long time that's all they were allowed to do, was teach children, be the person who cleans up when patients shit themselves, listen to men complain, make food, and do menial tasks.

Do you know anything of history or do you just pull this shit out of your ass?

The demographics have barely changed in the last 100 years, despite more woman graduating college than men in the last couple decades.

Because society sees those as jobs for females.

Same reason there's less women in STEM career fields.

"The problem with this “blank slate” interpretation of gender differences is that it doesn’t jibe with results of developmental studies. Newborn girls prefer to look at faces while newborn boys prefer to look at mechanical stimuli (such as mobiles). When it comes to toys, a consistent finding is that boys (and juvenile male monkeys) strongly prefer to play with mechanical toys over plush toys or dolls, while girls (and female juvenile monkeys) show equivalent interest in the two. (See this for summary of this research.) These sex-linked preferences emerge in human development long before any significant socialization can have taken place. And they exist in juvenile non-human primates that are not exposed to human gender-specific socialization efforts.

It is not difficult to see how such early emerging preferences can end up shaping career choices later on: Women tend to gravitate toward fields that focus on living things and agents, men to fields that focus on objects." http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/truth-women-stem-careers/

Ah yes, newborns look at faces. That absolutely proves that society has no part in why women don't go into Engineering and Computer Sciences.

To deny that men and women are distinctly different in their preferences for activities and what makes them happy is to deny reality itself.

Were on the internet, so take video games as an example. Women enjoy games with teamwork vs the computer AI, like world of warcraft. Men enjoy games where you compete against each other and there is always a winner and loser after the game like Counter Strike.

These types of differences dictate not only career choice, but hobbies, and how each gender prefers to spend their free time. There is a reason why women pay to get their nails painted, while men need to be reminded to get a haircut.

Yup it's always someone else's fault isn't it?

I think blaming someone's 'nature' is more about blaming them than anything else.

I also think it's ridiculous to think society has no influence on gender differences.

And, I think your overlooking a lot of the history. Modern STEM jobs have only been in existence for the average person, since woman have been going to college as much as men. When woman were mainly homemakers, men were mainly manual laborers in mines, factories, plants, wars, ect.

infant milk formulas are toxic for babies, and can't match breast feeding for infant development at all, there is also critical mother-child bonding that happens during breast feeding. The 21st century milk formula is actually a regression.

I agree with you. I don't think infant formulas are as healthy as breast milk and don't promote morher-baby bonding as closely as formula does....BUT.....breastfeeding is f*cking hard. We've got thrush, mastitis, blocked ducts, etc. You know those wetnurses? They were there because breastfeeding can be physically difficult. It always has been.

So back to formula....if a nursing mother is in pain, or a baby is losing weight because mom can't produce enough milk, then it's the next best thing. For a lot of families it's a life and sanity saver.

The point is that, whoile we think what's best for our babies based on scientific evidence, isn't always what's best based on the circumstances.

OMG my head is swirling. I've been reading this thread over and over again. I see all of the arguments for both sides, and I'm dying to know, how many of you here are parents, have had to deal with breastfeeding, and have had any experiences as a stay-at-home parent? Have any of you ever been in a position to have to make the choice between a career vs staying home? Or breast vs bottle?

It's called testosterone and progesterone. Men and women are equal in the family unit, but they do not have equal roles. Men and women need to be in committed relationships to fully realize their potential as humans, but their potential is not equal if solely judged by their gender roles.

But these gender roles are artificial. No one needs to follow these rules. In fact, these rules are harmful because they enslave men.

Men and women need to be in committed relationships to fully realize their potential as humans

..... ?

Because tradition? "Potential as humans"? Making a baby?

Women are better at organization than men are. Men forget when to eat because they become obsessed with fixing or solving something. Women get stressed out easier than men do, and a man they trust helps to lower their stress levels by being their rock. In a healthy relationship, both tend to live longer and be more successful than they would've been on their own. An unhealthy relationship is probably worse than being single, which feminism is making more common, by distorting the natural gender roles.

Yeah no

I think you're on pretty thin ice with this argument. For one thing your denigrating child-birth and child-rearing as some sort of oppressive burden on women and you invoke science. I tend to object to your argument which is essentially that the only relevant role of women in child rearing boils down to milk production. The importance of the bond between mothers and young children is an absolutely in your face undeniable fact. To even suggest that a father or anyone else can care for an infant in an adequate manner is completely wrong from a child development stand-point. Inadequate mother-infant bonding is precursor of mental illness. There is so much science that shows that a lack of bonding with the primary caregiver, ideally the mother as having a negative impact on society. It's been shown in drug addicts.

Even if women were "genetically" inclined to be stay at home moms (which again, there is no evidence for whatsoever) that does not mean that that is a desirable state of affairs. Women should be able to do whatever they want.

This comment is shocking.

I would love to sit down and dig up all the research that shows how wrong and irresponsible your position is but really you should go do it yourself. Seriously.

But women AREN'T meant to be stay at home moms. Look at any society in history where infant mortality was low. The women weren't separated from one another. They were actively part of their community and spent time with one another.

You can see this still today in "under developed" (read: "primitive") societies. The default way of being is for the women to raise children together in groups. Stay-at-home mom-ing is detrimental to the health of the mother and the development of the child.

Do we really have to be so rebellious toward our own culture? It's entirely possible to offer a sane critique of ourselves without this total rejection of everything. Afterall, no-one seems to argue that our culture hasn't been enormously successful. That isn't meant to say that we are absolutely perfect in everyway but it also doesn't give you grounds to suggest that we should return to a hunter gatherer lifestyle. Trust me, no-one would like it and it wouldn't be beneficial.

The real answer is not to pick some random primitive cultural appropriation but to go back within our own culture and figure out how we did it. Inconveniently, religion seems to play a major role in these tight knit communities that you seem to envy and which we had at one time.

Your critique isn't wrong but I think you spend your energy looking to your own ancestors because they sure as hell must have known what they were doing, right?

So your argument is that we are using a different model than our ancestors did, but because it's kinda worked so far we should continue to uphold it because "rebellion against culture is bad?" The guy you're responding to isn't advocating returning to prehistoric methods, he's merely pointing out that the often-parroted beliefs about genetically predetermined gender roles are inaccurate to how we actually evolved.

This isn't a question of going back to our roots, nor is it a question of upholding what we've been doing since. It's a question of how to move forward. That means questioning our old ways, studying the negative effects that these cultural practices have on us and our children, and weeding out those that are no longer suitable. We shouldn't remain stagnant simply because some of the population is somewhat okay with what we've always done, we must move forward for the betterment of all of us.

I don't understand your definition of "stay at home moms".

My mother stayed home with me until I went to school at age 5, and there were other kids and moms all over the neighborhood and they knew each other and the other kids.

For some young people here, that probably makes me sound super-privledged or something, but in reality, I'm just old. Old enough to have played outside every day in the summer, mostly unsupervised by any adults.

The other thing is that now, if you want or need to work and you have a baby, you're often handing them off to strangers. People do not live near their families any more, and can't hand their child off to their parents or brother and sister every day. That was very common in America not so long ago.

The same was true with my mother, past the age of 5 but otherwise the same. We were always interacting with the rest of the neighborhood and we would disappear for most of the day during the summer, no adult supervision for the most part. I'm barely 30 and this was what it was like when I grew up. I hadn't realized how different things were until I was in my mid 20s.

Your upbringing was unusual for your age, for sure. The ritual satanic abuse and super-predator memes kept a lot of kids locked up inside in the 90s continuing into the 2000s.

Stranger-danger is nowhere near as common as all the amber alerts make it seem. Most kids are abused and/or taken by people known to their families.

You seem to think a "stay-at-home-mom" does exactly what it says on the tin.

Providing playmates and arranging social gatherings is a fundamental part of raising a kid. They don't literally just stay at home for 18 years.

Feminism is a movement created by the elite to destroy the family. It's natural counterbalance is mgtow and redpill.

The net result of this clash is a populace of fatherless children. We are devolving into degenerates as a result, lowering the vibration of the population. Given that earth itself is raising her own, this causes a natural imbalance that manifests in many ways. Just look around you to see the disharmony.

what a condescending shitty post you know will earn you karma given the overwhelming demographic of this sub.

just because some people don't want what you want, don't live the way you want to, doesn't mean they have false perceptions of safety, strength, and happiness. how arrogant you are.

romance and love are alive and well, maybe you just haven't realized that chocolates and flowers and door opening have nothing to do with them. you sound like someone who thinks sex is love. you know what love is, someone pressing their forhead against yours as you cry uncontrollablly for the 20 year old cat you just buried. you want to know what love is? bathing the little, limp body of your dead cat who at the end had become incontinent, because he was too proud of a cat to deserve going in the ground covered in his own piss. if you think caring about another living being who shares your life is pathetic, i can see why you are a bitter, lonely, hateful person.

many women, my mother for example, are shitty care givers, many women thrive working in intense, competitive jobs, like big law.

anyone can be attracted to anyone they want. if some guy finds me not feminine enough or passive enough or what have you, then instead of there being some flaw in me as you say, it's more likely that we just are a bad fit. there are 7 billion people in the world, it's bound to happen.

you sound like someone who is bitter because you are alone and hate your life and have low self esteem, and instead of working out your own shit, judge and condemn everyone who is content living in situations that seem similar to yours, because the only way you can justify why you are so unhappy with your situation is to ascribe delusional mind control by feminism.

you'll get upvotes so that should make you feel better.

ps: maybe it's a geography thing but fat don't fly in south FL, so i don't know about the pro-fat "feminism."

What a condescending shitty reply you have here.

Instead of replying to the op like a normal human being, you have instead lashed out angrily with ad hominems.

This is not conducive to anything.

you know what love is, someone pressing their forhead against yours as you cry uncontrollablly for the 20 year old cat you just buried. you want to know what love is? bathing the little, limp body of your dead cat who at the end had become incontinent, because he was too proud of a cat to deserve going in the ground covered in his own piss. if you think caring about another living being who shares your life is pathetic, i can see why you are a bitter, lonely, hateful person.

wtf dude

And here we have the crazy cat lady trying to explain how taking care of old cats is just as satisfying as having a loving family.

Feminism created this user...

honestly. op's post is so dumb. not only does it ignore so many factors as to why men and women view each other the way they do (reinforcement of attitudes and behaviours from all kinds of media). but it is also so divisive.

and the whole fat movement thing was never about praising overweightedness, but to stop stigmatising fat people for being fat. self love is important in every shape or form, but it also means realising that being fat is not a reflection of self love because it's detriment to health. and to know that you can love yourself enough to get back to a healthy state.

and reading all these replies agreeing with this post and the some of the seriously misogynistic replies (like further down there's a reply about men needing basic chores done by women?).. like... get the fuck out your houses and look at the world a little bit..

stop blaming a system or a movement for your lack of integration with other ppl lol

what a condescending shitty post

Yeah two seem to get along very well then.

Oh boy, a conspiracy post that thinks Feminism is cancer.

You don't actually say what Feminism is doing other than being pro body acceptance.

Feminism really has created a monster

We get it, you think empowered women who can make choices about their lives are a threat to civilization.

I think he meant weaponized feminism

So, Straman feminism?

The kinds you only see on TIA, KIA, and TD?

I don't know what those are but okay

tumblrinactin, kotakuinaction, the_donald, I'll also throw in cringeanarchy, mensrights, theredpill.

All come from gamergate holdovers who have a real vendetta against women. "new wave feminism" is a real boogeyman to them.

Don't you think that some of their points may be valid?

I'm not CopyX, but it depends on the points you're talking about. I agree with the parts that lead to greater happiness and health, but not with the parts that encourage hatred of women.

You really don't get it at all. In fact the level at which you don't get it is absolutely staggering. But at least you virtue signaled on a reddit thread. Mission accomplished.

Feminism strikes me as backwards. It tells women they aren't equal unless they are and do all the things that men are and do. Well..so where is the celebration of femininity there? When were men ever brow beat into thinking they were less a man if they didn't stay home and raise the children? That would be the equivalent ideology.

It would just be nice if the things that are traditionally feminine were celebrated - now that would be women's liberation. We're sadly missing something in society now and its women who enjoy being what a woman is. We miss you.

sincerely - a guy

We're still around. You might find us in church on Sunday.

sincerely - A lady

Looking through your comment history, you spend most of your time posting on the_donald about politics and using the word "cuck" and such.

A real lady does not involve herself in politics. It is not your place.

Ah, there's still hope left in this world, then.

This is the most cringeworthy exchange I think I've seen on Reddit yet. Good job, you fuckin weirdos.

You must not get out much if you find this cringeworthy. Bless your heart.

You're just making it worse lmao.

dae think everyone who disagrees with them is a basement dwelling neckbeard troll xddd

using southern hospitality/hostility on the internet like no one knows what it is

Lord, help this man

Sweetie, if you thought I was implying you were a basement-dwelling, neckbeard troll, for disagreeing, that's on you. Your use of the phrase 'most cringeworthy' is what led to the conclusion you must not get out much.

You choosing to label the exchange and then label the individuals in the exchange is much more hostile, but again, bless your heart.

I'm sorry you found the exchange so disturbing you felt compelled to comment. Instead of ignoring the exchange or even respectfully disagreeing you chose to express your disagreement by being an asshat.

Good job! You win, I'm so moved by your snide remarks that I will now change my ways because I can totally see where you're coming from, you insufferable twat.

It just doesn't stop.

Choice A: feminist, Choice B: woman who sits in church on Sunday who doesn't know a lick of Hebrew or what the origins are of what she's worshipping, Choice C: brain dead woman, Choice D: foreign woman, any other choices?

Choice B: woman who sits in church on Sunday who doesn't know a lick of Hebrew or what the origins are of what she's worshipping

This is the most asinine statement. So a woman in church couldn't possibly have studied the historicity of Christianity if she doesn't know Hebrew? Or are you implying that women are just too stupid to do independent studying?

I'm implying that 99%+ of people sitting in churches on Sunday do not understand a word of Hebrew, they do not understand the deep contradictions between the Tanakh and Christian New Testament, and they do not understand the logical foundation by which Jews still exist.

They do not want to understand.

I'm not sure which is better/worse, Choice B or Choice C.

Feminism strikes me as backwards. It tells women they aren't equal unless they are and do all the things that men are and do.

Think of it this way: Why are modern parents ok with their daughters not wearing makeup and acting "masculine" but if men want to dress beautifully or look pretty they are degraded? I think if we can address that, it would help everyone across the board.

Not wearing makeup isn't really masculine, it's just.. you know, your face. ;u)

Acting masculine is, i believe, exactly what feminism pushes women to do.

Some of my friends growing up got scolded by their parents for not wearing makeup, so it was the first thing that came to mind. You probably have better examples than I do.

That's an odd thing to scold someone for. I recall a time when parents normally felt there was an age too young to be wearing it and most fathers would have been ok if their daughter didn't want to until they were 40.

I'll be honest though, i'm not too personally fond of men being super concerned about how pretty they are. In fact, vanity doesn't really look good on anyone but it looks particularly silly on a grown man.

vanity doesn't really look good on anyone but it looks particularly silly on a grown man.

True, but I will admit that I think everyone wants to look "pretty" from time to time. Whether that's in something like this or something like this.

I think most people can look better being fit and healthy than making a big effort toward fancy but then again i feel right at home in .outdoor-wear covered in a fine coating of dirt and downright uncomfortable in anything formal.

Right on. I definitely don't mean this as an all-the-time thing.

Right on. I definitely don't mean this as an all-the-time thing.

This is a an enormous misunderstanding of feminism.

It would just be nice if the things that are traditionally feminine were celebrated - now that would be women's liberation.

Thank you for saying this. I feel like a lot of women push equality as the ability to do traditional male activities. Unfortunately this just perpetrates the notion that these careers, etc are "better". Why aren't "traditional" female careers held in equal regards to male ones? Nursing, teaching, etc are as equally important to the well being of society as are rocket scientists and other STEM careers.

Too late, bitch! The fact that you did not notice this at first glance shows how stupid you are...MGTOW

I have a lot of thoughts on this issue. So many, in fact, that I could probably write a boo. So it's going to be difficult for me to keep my response to this succinct.

I believe you're mostly correct. I believe feminism, even first wave, but particularly second wave on are CIA funded movements meant to divide and destroy the nuclear family (and female dependence on welfare and take control of children), increase tax base by effectively doubling it, and bring in austerity as the new standard.

You see these programs going into new phases once education was targeted, agenda 21 plans enacted and so on.

I have more opinions that would be controversial even here, but I don't feel like defending my ideas against a horde of mouthbreathers.

I am MGTOW in the classic sense. Was one long before it had a label or a forum. Well before Reddit was ever born, in fact. Or 4Chan or any place.

I recognized the quality of women as something I wanted to minimize in my life to the greatest extent possible somewhere in the late 90s.

I've watched this incremental creep into reviling male qualities, the creation of this rape paranoia/culture, and the superficial elevation of women well beyond their capabilities that requires the suspension of my reality to even accept, let alone endorse.

Women are the children of government now. Their education and reproduction are almost entirely subsidized by the federal government so that they can claim independence.

We could talk about how the bulk of taxes are paid by men and consumed by women, but that's another matter. The average woman will die as a 150 thousand dollar burden on the economy. Whereas men will die a significant positive unless they live long into old age (a small percentage). And even when that is the case, the deficit is minor compared to the female average.

They are also the overwhelming cost of medical care in the country while also having access to free coverage, welfare and abortions. The government has replaced the man as daddy and husband and have all but openly declared men to be disposable and inconsequential.

So there is no longer any reason for women to make good/responsible decisions with their lives. Women live in a reality in which there is a constant safety net beneath them. Single motherhood is celebrated instead of shunned like it used to be and they call it progress as the nuclear family dies.

How we combat this is women, like yourself, are beginning to see the consequences of feminism. Men, like myself have checked out. We're gone. A few of us do recognize the harm its doing to society. Some are gleeful (I'm not). I feel nothing about it anymore. I refused to be used.

However, to me, MGTOW is much bigger than sexual relationships. It's institutional to its core. There is a lack of honor in everything, business and social.

I never noticed all the "girl power" propaganda I was consuming as a child in the 90s. I also noticed they really pushed the environmental agenda as well during that time. Captain Planet, FernGully, Pocahontas, etc. It really makes you think that there was agenda to program people and also money to be made off of all of this...

Or that women who had an extremely difficult time making it to where they were thought they would try to empower the next generation of women...wow who would have thought. Just because something is trying get a message across, does not mean its propaganda. And yeah trying to better the planet, real conspiracy that one.

I would, but speaking/talking isn't my specialty. And I feel like a book... people don't read and if they do it's not to challenge their opinions. It would just be preaching to a choir.

I have a lot of thoughts on this issue. So many, in fact, that I could probably write a book.

Classic example of Dunning-Krueger effect.

I believe feminism, even first wave, but particularly second wave on are CIA funded movements meant to divide and destroy the nuclear family (and create female dependence on welfare and take control of children), increase tax base by effectively doubling it, and bring in austerity as the new standard.

The CIA came into existence last century. First wave feminism dates back to the 1800s. Knowing that is knowing the first thing about the origins of first wave feminism. You think you can write a book about something you literally don't know the first thing about. Astounding.

Feminism is a socially engineered eugenics and societal collapse program. It is working to great success in the west as the east laughs at us and is taking advantage.

as the east laughs at us and is taking advantage.

Bullshit. Look at Japan and China. No one is happy over there either.

Loads of happy people in China and Japan. Try going there instead of reading western MSM propaganda.

There are lots of happy people, but every Japanese person I spoke to has an issue with their culture (the long workweeks, what's expected of the women, etc.)

guess what. humans are humans. Everyone will find something to complain about. No culture is completely perfect. There is no society on earth where everyone is happy about everything all the time.

You doing ok? The way you're talking sounds like you're looking for an argument. I shouldn't have led with "bullshit" though. That's on me.

I didnt mean it in an angry or confrontational tone!

Neither am I! Sorry for misunderstanding.

Wow. WTF :/

I swear, I thought this was on /r/ShitRedditSays at first. I just can't even.

Yeah this is a shit thread

I think my favorite part is blaming feminism for obesity. As someone living in the south, where feminism is not prevelant, obesity still managed to be one of the biggest problems we have.

Nothing wrong with female empowerment, you're treating a nuanced topic as though it's binary. Don't let loud idiots direct your thoughts.

Lots of the problems you describe are just side effects of a comfortably gluttonous society i.e. "there are too many fat people" "social media is..gasp...anti social!".

I think we'd agree in saying that people are more likely "living lives inside". People are comfortable to do that because nowadays everyone has access to the internet and you can get everything you need from your computer.

Unsuprisingly all these movements you namedrop (mgtow, pro fat) exist mainly online and that goes for both the far left and far right. i'd say keep pushing yourself to go outside and you'll realise your average joe doesn't give a fuck about this "culture war". Probably too busy getting fucked over by the greedy hoarders at the top of our society.

The people you should be worried about are these leeches with actual economic and political power, not a movement consisting largely of societally disillusioned young folk.

Amen

Like a lot of things, feminism started out with good intentions. It was powerful and useful and really did do a lot of good. Then third wave feminism came along and fucked everything up.

This whole thread is essentially "old man yells at cloud".

I mean that's probably accurate for some posters, but I'm a 24 year old woman, so...

That's nice, but you're still yelling at a cloud if you think feminism is the reason men aren't interested in you.

Oh honey. I never said men weren't interested in me. I just said third wave feminism is shit.

That's neat. I was referring to OP and people in the comments who are suggesting that feminism is the reason people struggle with relationships.

Yet you decided to reply to my original comment, thus making it sound like I was on your list of "old men yelling at clouds."

Reread the comment and search the word "if". You clarified you were not of the group, and then I clarified who I was talking about.

What are you failing to understand here?

I have been, and always will be of the opinion that what turns a good man on more than anything is a woman who conducts herself like a lady.

and Boomers who refuse to retire from high paying position or refuse to continue working in low position and instead leaching off SS

Feminism isn't some monolithic thing, there are many different kinds of feminism. Exactly which part of feminism is your bogeyman? Someone who says feminism is to blame, doesn't know much about feminism.

Agreed.

Yeah as sociology major and gender studies minor in their fourth year, it's definitely not feminism. Feminism will never take over the world and the equality we imagine will never exist. It's just the culture we live in, sure feminism is becoming a large part of our culture, but it isn't strictly feminism.

Feminism.. progressivism.... imaginary social justice.. socialism.. big government.. it's all the same monster

wish more people understood this

Where can I meet women with half the intellect of the women commenting here? Women who can see through the deception and hate are the women I need in my life. Being smart and aware of the world around you is very attractive, IMO. Keep on being awesome ladies. Love is out there for everyone.

1. Meet more women

2. Make friends with women you don't want to fuck (e.g. they aren't attractive to you or they're older mentor types)

This will make talking to women much, MUCH easier than if you don't have female friends or teachers, they're also more likely to introduce you to their friends or people they think would be a good match.

Hegalian Dialectic.

I am believer in civilizations are cyclical. Sir John Glubb studied civilizations and theorized every empire lasts 250 years and is defined by a series of ages. Unfortunately, we are in the Age of Decadence which is characterized by rising welfare and social engineering such as feminism.

Feminism is a byproduct of abundance in society leading moral decay. I do believe there are those who understand civilizations and human nature and can help accelerate natural human movements for personal gain.

Count me in the camp who believe the CIA and elite families like the Rockefellers understand this all too well

Do you study Antidiluvian Civilizations? It's very interesting stuff. After going through some topics, I believe that the Great Flood is actually a timed reset clock.

No. Could you provide some quality links for a newbie?

Is r/conspiracy turning into r/incels now?

I think OP is just pissed off that she can't get a boyfriend.

I don't agree with the OP either, but why did you think it necessary to comment about her like that? How does this help the conversation?

I would be more serious if OP's post deserved a serious response. It's intellectual dishonesty stroking off a demographic of this subreddit. OP's entire understanding of feminism probably comes from memes in /r/tumblerinaction.

As for the joke I made, this post is essentially a cleaned up version of a typical /r/incels post. I don't really feel bad for it, because OP has insulted an enormous amount of women who did more good for the world than OP likely will ever do. Fuck the suffragettes, right? They destroyed the country! Fuck civil rights!

As for many of the comments here, if your talking points begin to look incredibly similar to those of /r/Incels, then you really need to start reconsidering why it is you struggle with relationships.

I'm not talking about you taking it serious or not. I agree with you and upvoted several of your other comments. It's the way that you brushed her off that is the issue. For someone who seems to be very much interested in equality, the way you said that basically makes you sound like the people that you seem to dislike throughout the rest of the thread.

Do you not see how the way you dismissed her is basically the same thing that you're irritated with from other users?

Do you not see how the way you dismissed her is basically the same thing that you're irritated with from other users?

No, I dismissed her for the content of her post, as I said in my previous comment. As I also said before, the content of her post is so ridiculous that it doesn't warrant me taking the time to give a serious response.

If somebody approached you on the street and told you that the world was being destroyed by militarized hyper-intelligent pink elephants, are you really going to waste your time arguing with the person about it?

No, you're going to dismiss the ridiculous shit they just said, because it's ridiculous and not worth arguing with them about it.

again, I'm not talking about why you dismissed her. It's the way you did it. You basically said, "this isn't worth discussing because she's bitter she doesn't have a man."

What you see as a joke I see as misogynistic and antithetical to several of your other comments.

misogynistic and antithetical to several of your other comments.

Not really, because my other comments are are mocking the way this comments section looks like /r/incels, which is what my joke about OP was based on. So if you think mocking people sympathetic to /r/incel talking points is misogynistic then that's your problem. I say fuck anybody who is sympathetic to that worldview.

It doesn't matter if OP is a man or a woman. Her views are sympathetic to the /r/incels. Just because she's a woman doesn't mean I'm not going to mock her for repeating talking points related to a disgusting group of people.

Here, I'll make the joke about everybody else supporting her point view:

They probably support this point of view, because they're bitter they can't maintain relationships and want to blame it on feminism.

Feminism today has become radical. Even known feminist from the 80s and 90s disagree with today's movement. It is like the whole radicalism with the left. A small minority agree with gender and identity politics. It's killing the Democratic party.

What is mgtow?

"Men going their own way" and choosing to opt out of relationships with women. It actually has some good advice, but a LOT of what you see of it online is all "Women are the worst and you should hate them" rather than building up men.

Interesting. Thanks for letting me know. I saw the term on YT and never knew what it meant.

There are a couple people in this thread (some near the bottom) that are demonstrating what I mean. They take a perfectly useful idea that would be great for building up men, but turn it into a conversation that's primarily focused on women.

Absolutely true. A profound (but definitely politically incorrect) observation. I also believe that those who seek to destroy the world have used feminism as a wedge. Most feminists aren't happy, and feminism has helped to destroy both the traditional family and male female relationships. I hope people are starting to recognize the destructiveness.

Great post OP! Thanks for this

Guys, I would really take a look at history and why women used to marry. Get over the anger. Theres just more options now.

No kidding. If your options are "starve to death or marry some random dude" you'll choose the random dude, but if women aren't at risk of losing their lives or children by NOT marrying, then it makes sense why they wouldn't want to get married. Sometimes marriage is a WORSE option than staying single, and women's ability to work and own property (and debt) is part of that.

There's nothing you can do on a personal level for yourself that can fix the situation. If you're serious, and not just here to get attention/engaging in female mating strategies, then you'll take up the cause of reversing legal no fault divorce, elimination of alimony, and equal custody as de-facto. That alone still won't fix the real problems: Women + dependents live off the government now as their pseudo husband, until the welfare state is reversed, that won't change, the media gives no respect to men, and teaches women that we're all rapists, or idiots, what have you, abortion + birth control have completely eliminated women from the consequence of sex, and freed them to have sex with as many men as they want, read studies on female pair bonding, this behavior destroys their ability to pair bond, the economy is terrible for the young generation, which means women and men are even less likely to try to start a family, etc. If you want to fight all of that, fight globalism and central banking, and then also fight against a woman's right to vote, (women voted most of this crap in), then live in the world you and your sisters have created.

Pair bonding is one issue I didn't get into in my original reply. It deserves a bold bullet point, though. It was just a little off the path of the general overview I was getting at.

And yes, I read where sperm can integrate with or alter female DNA, potentially. Which is perhaps slut shaming has always been an intuitive function people naturally understood, if not intellectually.

That study did not include humans, also check this out: http://www.snopes.com/women-retain-dna/

You aren't seriously trying to use snopes as a legitimate source are you?

yes

They have links to the sources of the studies on that page. Don't throw the babby out with the bathwater.

Someone suggested we need to know more about this. It us certainly not in the public consciousness at this point. The UN is still pushing feminism. I think it is part of their one-world government plan. People definitely need to become aware of how women are being used to further the globalist agenda. To find out more, start following Henry Mackow's web Site. He has a lot of insight. This is a very big topic and will get bigger once people realize what has been going on

A good start would be to not call other women "mail order brides". My wife is from a different country than I am and because she's thin, pretty and "foreign" we've received our share of dirty looks from American / European women. What they don't know of course is she's the product of top schools and works at the executive level -- in most cases makes more money than their husbands -- certainly doesn't need my money.

Either you have something to offer someone or you don't. Don't blame culture or dating apps or a rough childhood. It's a competition that stretches back to the dawn of life here. Not everyone wins.

FWIW I was born poor and skinny. It took decades of hard work to become the kind of person my wife should marry. If you weren't born with everything (few are) you're going to have to work. That comes down to you -- don't blame anyone else if you fail.

gender fluidity is NWO.

I agree overall.

skinny, single girl...looking for a man...

Feminism Was Created To Destabilize Society

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NN05DHO9bJw

For the record, the issue in Japan is caused primarily by culture and economy, not feminism. Japanese people for the most part reject feminism as cult-like and very un-Japanese. They copy some of the nonsense feminism spews in the west because it's cool and trendy, but most of it doesn't really stick because it's just a fad to them.

Jeez, I hate feminism as much as anyone, but you can't blame it for everything. Feminism is only bad in that it brainwashes people to believe a certain narrative. A rational, thinking person will see the world around them and come to their own conclusions.

'A rational, thinking person will see the world around them and come to their own conclusions. "

as the rational, thinking person experiences the tender mercies of the state's feminist justified "laws" which are "for the best interests of the children" and the State, not best interests of the husband/wife/family

that movement might be also Rockefeller backed,

Rockefeller backed? Its logically backed. No propaganda required.

I am a woman, I am over 30, I am single, I am a professional, I am a feminist, and you're full of shit.

A "stay at home" life would be a nightmare for me. I could never be happy being reliant on another person. I could never be happy in a caregiver job. I do not internally register with that place in society. I would not thrive if I were forced to take that role. Instead I get to choose the meaning my life has. The direction I'm walking in is mine. The strength and happiness I project to others is real.

Feminism gave me that ability to control my life and define my purpose and live in a way that is true to me.

And you want to combat that? Take that away? Because you blame it for your failed relationships? Because you blame it for obesity? Because "traditional family"? Fuck. Off.

Feminism killed romance and love? Before feminism, women were forced to marry men. The decision was out of their hands, made by their fathers instead. How is that romance? Before feminism, men could beat and rape their wives as they pleased and the wives were forced to stay. How is that love?

You want to know why obesity is such a problem? Look up sugar addiction, and then check how much sugar goes into the foods you eat. Look up how much processing foods changes how our body metabolises it. Look up the changes in the percentage of employment that's physical vs sedentary.

The world is different, not worse. Romance is not dead, just dead to you. Stop projecting your personal failures on others. Stop blaming a long, diverse, multifaceted social and political rights movement for problems that you've made up.

Stop fighting to take away my right to be me.

This. I would like to expand your post from male prespective.

Feminism freed both men and wome from horrible no-choice traditionalist marriages.

Men dont have to toil and break their spines to feed a lady and her kids anymore. Men can earn their own money and spend whole of it on themselves. There is no pressure to support a woman, if not risk collapse of society and the country.

Feminism exposed female hypergamy, afbb, etc. Not that there is anything wrong about. You can change what ir who one loves. You can be aware ot it and do is best for you though.

A woman earns her own money and takes care of her own expenses. Isnt that a drea, A woman who pays her share?

I dont see why men hate feminism so much.

Traditionalism and patrirachy are romance killers and male oppressors not feminism.

Feminism is #heForHe, not #heForShe.

preeeachhhh

Call yourself what you'll, what you do is what men have been doing for ages. Live a life where you are not dependent on others. (That's the plan at least, it always fails horribly, and women in business are so easily exploited it's not even funny, you work yourself to near death just to get some appreciation, but that's a whole different topic)

Now, that's all fine but your biological clock with 30 is reaching its limits and at some point you have to take in dependencies, kids, husband. (if you're the one who's working) But the modern woman also doesn't want that. So what do they want? Certainly no family or kids it seems.

And last time I checked, forced marriage is still prevalent in certain religions and feminism won't stop that practice. You yourself didn't have it, so what kind of argument is that even?

Modern women aren't some hive-mind monoliths who all desire the exact same thing. Some women only want a career. Some only want to have a family. Some want some of both. Some want a husband and a bunch of dogs. Some want a wife. Some want to have their own kids. Some want to adopt or foster instead. And some will change as they grow and mature and want different things.

And that's kind of the point. I work a very fulfilling career that in the past was not open to women. I love this job, and it's only going to get better for me as I advance. I wouldn't be able to have this job without feminism. I wouldn't be able to have my apartment, I wouldn't be able to live on my own and prioritise my career that I love so much. I wouldn't be able to choose.

When OP says that she wants to reverse feminism, she's saying that she wants to reverse all of those advances that allow me to be me.

And her excuses are bullshit! Feminism caused obesity? Really? Wage stagnation and rising costs of living coupled with the spread of cheap, fatty foods like McDonald's had nothing to do with it? The shift from an industrial to an information-age society? No? Some people are fat so I shouldn't be able to have a career, or vote, or own property?

She wants me to go back to being property? Because Tinder exists? Because she can't find a long term relationship? If she can't find it, it doesn't exist?

She talks about the death of love and romance, but the era she's apparently longing for wasn't exactly romantic. Yes, some areas of the world do have forced marriages. But it's been pretty much eliminated from the western world thanks to feminism. And OP wants to go back to it. And back to marital rape. And back to domestic abuse being a private problem, not a criminal one, and couldn't you just behave Mrs Shamblin? Your husband wouldn't hit you if you behaved like a good wife.

There is nothing stopping OP from living that "Traditional Life" she's longing for. She can arrange her affairs however she likes. But she wants to take away that right from me, because her choices aren't working out for her. Everyone must be forced to live her way because that's the only right way. No choice, no freedom, no me.

That's what that rant above and this one is about. OP wants to force me to live a particular kind of life that I don't want. She blames all the advances that allow me to be me for all of society's ills and her personal problems. But she's wrong, and she can fuck right off.

Really want your blood to boil?
Feminism isn't even good for most women - it benefits the top 15% career-women the most and harms everyone else.

Even Elizabeth Warren wrote a book about the failures of feminism - The Two Income Trap.

it benefits the top 15% career-women the most and harms everyone else.

This is what upsets me most.

Just like how Affirmation Action helped out upper class white women more than any other group. Those upper class white women sure need a lot of help...

I'm no fan of Warren's but she's very smart, and that's a great book.

feminism is just us wanting equality ya'll...

feminism is killing...reproduction

I'd have no problem with that one.

another thread which promote disconnecting from all social media/ media?

im a sceptic when i see a message spammed over and over again and the last days (since this CNN drama stuff) i see here threads/postings about how everyone should stop looking at media, social media, news etc. and go out in the world ... even when this is a good message it has a smell on it.

and stinks like propaganda to disconect selfthinking people and make them stop digging ...

There wasn't a magical time when men and women got along. Hypergamy has always existed in women, women have always viewed men as disposable utilities, and women have always been deceitful concerning their nature and towards the unfortunate men involved with them. Feminism is merely the overt expression of female nature.

You know what I hear as the most common compliment from very old women concerning their dead husbands? How they were such good utilities. Add in how they brag about fucking every soldier they knew and you have a very clear picture of alpha fucks, beta bucks. The current dynamic isn't even close to new.

MGTOW is men waking up to female nature. How they choose to deal with that is up to the individual man. I went monk mode a few years ago, because I don't find anything desirable about women once I took that red pill. They're pretty much all whores, and are emotionally damaged from their diseased exploits.

It may sound cheesy, but I believe it to be true.

Love is one of the strongest forces in the world. The love between and a man and a woman is insurmountable. When a man and woman are truly in love their bond is unshakable and they will fight to do the death to stop anything that might threaten the peace of the world they want to bring their children into.

In essence, the family unit is the greatest threat to the New World Order. A strong family unit represents at its core a driving force for independence from Big Pharma and Big Agri. Men will fight tyranny and women will demand their children be educated well. And together they will fight any government that wishes to oppress them and their children.

Feminism is one of the biggest scandals of the century. It completely erodes all natural connection between the man and the woman. It doesn't create more equality for women. It creates more hate towards the disposable male, and society as as whole goes belly up. It happened to the Romans. First it was feminism, then came the mass immigration. Then Rome was destroyed from within. It's been going on for centuries.

The idea is to establish a love for consumerism. Destroy the family unit and fill that whole with selfish hedonism and gossip. Tell on your neighbors, tell on your wife, tell on your mom, tell on your dad, etc, etc. Get the centralized corporate government to fulfill all your needs. You belong to them, not to your family.

Lmao it's always the Russians nowadays.

How did the KGB push new wave feminism into the USA?

And getting men hooked on opioids and anti depressants

Misery loves company and the purple haired bull dykes are pulling the rest of you down with em.

you guys are just gonna have to decide if this is a subreddit for conspiracy theories or reactionary diatribes against the "liberal agenda"

There's so much overlap of posters here, The Red Pill, and T_D, that maybe they randomly choose where to post.

This effects nothing, muslim women wear veils in some middle eastern countries, some people choose to become criminals, some live in their mom's basement and have no jobs at the age of 45, people do things, I don't understand why another person's issues is suddenly a headline for you. Sure there's a crazy lady that lives with a hundred cats, no boyfriend/girlfriend and has nothing else to hold on to but a false "strong-independent-woman" persona on social media, doesn't mean it's the end of the world. Probably needs therapy.

What does this have to do with being a conspiracy? This is just you ranting about feminism.

The only way to combat it successfully is to spread your message faster than the feminists are spreading theirs. Feminism is in the MSM and frankly it was also partially demonstrated / represented in some few of Hillary Clinton's supporters: those who only supported her due to her gender.

Unfortunately, it will take many years of re-education. There are many brainwashed people, so I'm not planning for my future to be one with fewer feminists. I've seen the degeneracy in antifa being one of the few actual fascist groups in the U.S...

We need people to speak out on what feminist ideals have created. Feminized men raised by single mothers to be mommas boys, never able to lead, encouraged not to leave mama's basement. Lonely women, the destruction of family ideals, financial rape via "I'm bored of my husband" divorce, not to mention the emotional trauma on the fathers who can't see their kids after custody battles. A welfare state that encourages women to become single mothers. All of which leads to some men not having the balls to marry if they wanted to, and a lot of men who could, but don't see any advantage in it, leading to many older women left alone, with or without children to raise.

We need viral videos, memes, on a scale much larger than it took to bring Trump over the margin and into the white house. Unfortunately, it will be a lot harder to meme your way to the end of feminism. Because this time, you'll have to convince not men who already live on the Internet, a place of meme culture, but rather you'll have to convince women, who statistically spend less time online (though more social media - this is probably where you must enter) and women who already believe feminism is a good thing.

Honestly I don't see it happening, it's too big a goal, but it could happen if many people get involved. For now, unfortunately, my plan is to only date younger women (20 - 30) before they demand marriage or kids, and if it happens, move onto the next. I'm sorry, women, this is the best option for many men right now. It's much easier to find someone else with less brainwashing (younger) than it is to convince a 40-something to stop trying to take away all of your personal power.

Surprised how traditional, conservative, sex neg this sub is

Check out /r/MensRights and /r/MGTOW OP. Both are working to understand this major problem. It's especially a problem in America, but the problem is spreading across the world as more people take on America's cultural ideology.

I'm all about feminism but it's the feminazis 'blinding" the new generation. Personally I only talk to women who are from multicultural backgrounds or first generation natural born citizens (US) because they see what is happening with this movement and agree with certain aspects and I understand that but damn. I do not about Japan and their situation with feminism but they have a generation that are not procreating and have a older generation. (If that makes sense). If someone could expand please do.

There are lots of complex problems raised by your comment.

1. Traditionally, women were suppressed and prevented from living out their full potential as scientists, workers, artists, etc. This is less common now but still with us.

2. Women are now financially independent and do not need to rely upon a man to live. So, they do not have to put up with a man's bullshit. This is good. But, it also means no relationship, no sex, cats.

3. Mail order brides are more traditional (generally) and can cook, keep a house, and make and raise babies. All of the things a man needs done.

4. Both men and women are large groups of people that include everything from saints to murderers in both groups. Some women are smarter than me. Some women are physically stronger than me. So what? It does not mean that I have no right to exist.

5. There is a big gap between sex, and love, and relationships. It is hard to build a good relationship now. I think that different people are looking for different things. Some people treat a hook-up like a handshake and that is ok, but that is their world: sex is almost meaningless to them. I do not want to live in that type of world/relationship. Call me old-fashioned.

6. The food is shitty. The life-style is shitty. We sit all day in front of a screen. We eat garbage. We get fat and tired and the deadline for the report is Thursday and I gotta crank it out. More coffee and doughnuts!!!! We need something better and soon.

7. Both Feminism and Men's rights are basically about increasing human rights, so I am in favor of both but the extreme ends of both groups are too much for me.

8. The media presents an image that is not reality. We would be better served by concentrating on reality.

point 2; what the hell is the correlation between financial independence and sex???

point 3; "a man needs done". really? can you not do those things yourself? are you that stunted in doing basic chores? a woman does not raise children alone, she did not make them herself.

point 4; who the hell said anyone has no right to exist?

what the hell

No such thing as feminism. Women just expect to get paid for sex. Either in cash, a big spender, or the expectation of marriage. Hence why you see a lot more interracial shit. Women can go without sex for years; it's not nearly as much a primal need for them. Are you a player or a sucker? Just go bang an escort.

Wtf does race have to do with this?

What a shit sub this is now.

I think we should just refer to it as third wave Feminism, as to not confuse it with people (and those who already have) sincerely pushing for equal rights.

I thought modern day feminists are calling their movement Post Feminism? They're on the 4th wave now.

boyyy has this post generated some stupid discussion. your op ignores sooo many factors as to why things are the way they are today and blames it on just feminism, lmao

It's not regular Feminism it's New Wave Feminism and Intersectionality that are the problems. How this crap haa gotten as far as it has is mind boggling, especially at the college level. It needs to be fought on every front and destroyed.

I think we'd all benefit from an expansion on this point. Thank you.

Mark Passio Neo-Feminism & The Satanic Epi-Eugenics Agenda Presentation explains this pretty well I think.

The cause of all of this is social media 100%.

Our society has been transformed in an extremely short amount of time to pressure everyone to create and maintain this incredible picture of themselves that others view and judge them on.

Humans were never meant to have 5000 friends and be constantly competing with millions of people to stand out and get noticed. People are starved for attention because of it. Women especially, who have always really been very concerned with their looks and how others perceive them, are sucked into this more than men, but men are too.

For that, you see women becoming increasingly militant into "causes" and things so they can be noticed (men too). Also, women are incredibly picky now because they're not looking for someone compatible, they're looking for someone presentable to their 4000 friends and 20k followers. They need someone who subscribes to all of their causes, is good looking, yet, someone who is subservient to their whims yet strong and with resolve like a "real man". Men like this simply don't exist and they go on and on in an endless sea of lonliness. Then, they'll turn to places like Tinder to get the sexual attention they crave, leaving them even lonlier inside. Men can have casual and detached sex much easier than women can. Women are cerebral and grow attachments easier as opposed to men who are sort of one-track minded in their thought and behavior patterns.

In summation, social media has unraveled hundreds of years of social interaction progression in about 10 years. In 10 years from now, things will be twice as worse. Social media isn't going away, and its only becoming more intrusive into our lives. People will become consumed with dolling themselves up, traveling to places they don't like, being with people they don't like, doing things they can't afford, and buying all sorts of shit they can't afford, all so they can impress people they don't know.

Delete your social media. You'll be amazed at how hard the habit is to break of going to those sites to check on things. After a while you get used to it and you'll be amazed at how much you can work on personal development.

You my friend are an enlightened individual, i myself have been trying to cut the social media rope. I must say going back and seeing what's being posted honestly makes me feel... very bad about the future, things that don't deserve attention seem to be the driving force for social media. And it really does contribute to a very fake persona of a person.

I've read a critique that says that male/female relationships have worked over time culturally to due to the essential division of labor between men and women, with men focusing on strength-based endeavors (hunting, farming, fighting, labor) and women around domestic endeavors (child rearing, cooking and keeping the home).

Feminism disrupts this division of labor, resulting in all kinds of cultural dysfunction, at least in the short run. By no longer be dependent on male endeavors for support (whether it's hunting or office work pay), women find that men are more burden than benefit, and the relationships that do result are fraught with instability and conflict.

I'm not sold on the impossibility of a culture of male/female equality, but I think it's a difficult thing to transition from centuries (millennia?) of a culture based on gender division of labor to a culture of gender equality without a long period of chaos.

One of my other doubts is whether gender differences in sexuality aren't actually the basis of the division of labor, and that a major driver of female sexuality isn't a stable reproductive environment (ie, a provider to care for mother and child during pregnancy and after birth) which itself relies on divisions of labor.

What Feminism is about:

1. Overnight, double the number of potential applicants for any high skill job. Keep the competition high and the wages relatively low, since everybody knows that women will work for less.

2. Maintain the status of the White people in the US. By giving (mostly rich college-educated) white women a chance in the corporate world, they keep the money and the status in the family.

fix the divorce laws, false allegations and custody laws. Things will fall in place.

fix the laws?

you imply that they broken, they are not. the laws are working exactly as intended by those who wrote them.

Feminism is a good thing, it means equality. Don't blame feminism because you can't get dates. What is this post??

You know what it is... it wears a fedora.

Do you see differences between first and second wave feminism, and if so where do you think it went south?

Its not Feminism its Capitalism that has done this.

Feminism isn't the reason you can't get a boyfriend. It's because you are fat

dumb comment of the day right here folks

(you know some guys like fat chicks right?)

The liberal plan is to make whites the minority to secure their position of power among the current minority who truly believe a governments job is to provide everything for them directly. That's why feminism, transgenderism and homosexuality are being shoved down our throats. All the while creating a false sense of superiority for whites by ensuring that the lifestyle that separates the majority for the minority requires a dual income family preventing too much reproduction while minorities are compensated for increased number of dependents.

while minorities are compensated for increased number of dependents.

White trailer trash are also compensated for pooping out their grubby crotch goblins.

I should point out - those people with 'fuck men' attitudes aren't feminists. It's about equality and men are just as worthy and intelligent as women. But I'm still a feminist. I love men thougj

Stop welfare. Welfare pays woman to kick the fathers out. End welfare.

What a retarded sexist bigot... Women soil everything they touch, including "conspiracies". Your emotional rambling doesn't help anyone.

I'd rather blame Disney and Romantic Comedies. Also there is a general trend towards individualism rather then collectivism.

r/asablackman

The obesity epidemic is a huge part of this feminist scourge, don't make light of that.. Our hormonal balance has been manipulated past a tipping point, thanks to the pesticide atrazine polluting our water supply. If you are struggling with weight issues, please consider a no sugar, ketogenic diet along with intermittent fasting to get great results. Look up Dr. Erig Berg to get the details on getting your health back...

I think you mean neo-feminism. This is a good seminar addressing remifications of neo- https://youtu.be/65GNSDDnh_8 worth a watch for educational purposes.

Anytime I see "Neo" slapped in front of an ideology I think of its synonym "Run Amok".

Neofeminism

Neoliberalism

Neoconservatism

I miss the gold old days when Neo equivocated to good soul music.

It just means New... a new form of something. New liberals, new conservatives and new music. Also is Keanu Reeves in the Matrix trilogy.

I get it. It's just I am being conditioned to dread Neo anytime it is used as a prefix.

Why men used to get married: SEX, kids, meals made by wife while man works, so we don't look like a looser by society.

What men used to control: Abortion, kids, money, house options, life, car choices.

What men can't control now: Abortions, kids, money, housing options, expensive car for wife.

What men can get now without a relationship: SEX (because hookups aren't taboo anymore)

Costs of marriage: $$$$ for wedding weekend, expensive car for wife, kids college, 50% chance of divorce (divorce is crazy expensive)

Why would I get married now unless I truly found the most amazing perfect girl in the world.

Pros do not outweigh cons

I would argue that the problem is extremism applied to feminism. Plenty of legit feminists are not at all what you describe-just like legit members of religions are often not violent for the sake of their religion even if violence goes against their religion's teachings. The extremists are the problem.

What you are seeing in action is Darwinism. Not everyone is meant to survive or procreate. That's unnatural. Those who have the instinct to pair bond and procreate will, those don't won't. Slutty women for one reason or another have weak pair bonding skills or desires to sacrifice for a child (I still know slutty women from when they were 14 till they are 33). And only really decide to chase commitment as their sexual marketplace value dips towards their late twenties if they haven't taken great care of themselves (I know Crossfit gals in their forties with incredible bodies, and women in their early twenties with ok bodies).

Only hapless pathetic losers (aka cucks) settle for these women and that's if they can't be shamed away from it (and more and more are not only being shamed away from it but also being educated on why it's best to avoid these used up damaged goods).

We also live in an era that seeks to redefine masculinity because we have enough loser scum in the media trying to make it happen. Saying naturally masculine men have toxic masculinity. Because what's worked since the beginning of humanity for one reason or another hasn't worked they believe. A masculine male's natural state is barbarism, sorry folks that's the way it is, and masculine men should only give it up when bribed sufficiently to do so.

For a long time males were sold on the idea of being "good guys". That it would lead to happier and better relationships and interactions with women. And this was all a lie. Yes you have lots of women who are able to avoid being simple western whores that will seek out legit partners they can share a world with and be equal to. Those are the folks who get married and stay married typically (in the western hemisphere).

But that's not everyone. Lots of people are seduced by the lies and foolishness that surrounds them. They are getting game by not only consumer culture, but the culture sought to be established by the weak (commies, marxists, feminists, etc.), and those weak cultures don't create anything good ultimately and tend to fall apart while wreaking misery on the many (i.e. Venezuela).

So sit back, relax, and enjoy the decline. If you haven't found your partner by 25 and are fat, you still might find them and you still might not. Welcome to the word, would you like some matches?

And they will continue to have unintended consequences for those who wrote them.

I like how folks here think that 3rd wave feminism is radical. It's regressive and without direction. Feminism is and will always be about class and the class structure. What is termed feminism today is just more neo-liberal pro-capitalist bullshit.

I would like to say that i have been reading through the comments and its kind of refreshing, i am a man and i have been in a couple of long relationships and almost gave up, But i never gave up on women and never gave up on me, even though i only have a high school diploma, i always dated higher educated women, i loved and love treating nicely my female counterparts just because its the right thing to do,the hen comes first, not the egg. Even though i have had my share of suffering, i am almost to never jealous, i have been red-pilled for years, but i try to not judge those who are not, i am currently married and one of the lucky ones who have found The One, she is the anchor to my ship, she is the sun in the dead of winter, she is the breeze through a drought, everything. All beings are beautiful, society created many of them to be "ugly". I starred the post, for my wife to read it. Thanks guys. Awesome civil read. Looking forward to the new sub.

Damn I love him. Do you still think he is all part of the larger plan though?

I agree with his stance on lgbt propaganda. Be gay or whatever but do not be going around propagating it like they do here in the US.

Of course not, I still wouldn't call Putin a full blown Nationalist, but he is 100% Anti-NWO. He made Russia prosper and Russia, Iran and Syria are the only ones fighting ISIS and keeping the US and Israel on the edge.

same as sweden. in sweden saying you hate feminism is fighting words all around.

I don't know what those are but okay

Not sure how gender equality affects reproduction..

can you expound on what you mean by that?

Citation please

Citation that isn't propaganda/Alex Jones.

The pro-Putin propaganda in this sub is disgusting. You "love" Putin? You should be ashamed of yourself for saying something to ridiculous.

Or do you just love any dictator that's known for mercilessly jailing and murdering their dissenters? Jesus fucking Christ.

What do you think would happen to a news reporter if they started reporting negative news about Putin or started revealing his crimes?

I agree. Im sure many others feel the same way but they would get wrongly labeled as racist

1. Are you saying men and women aren't equal in America?

2. Fertility rates have been negative and dropping in Sweden since 2007 (I didn't look up Netherlands). This means Swedish people aren't making enough babies to replace themselves. That's a huge problem and also why the government is so keen on immigration. Population growth is required to sustain capitalism.

What the fuck...

Since feminism is part of our culture in the west, it's intertwined

I've seen the same thing in the Scandanavian counties I've visited. Both the men and women I stayed with seem much happier than the American couples I know.

I actually agree with this, but not "disposable"; "Interchangeable".

Most men I've seen that have issues finding happy relationship are the ones that the MGTOW crowd would say are "putting pussy on a pedestal", only it's a specific one.

If you don't get hung up on a specific woman, if you learn to take hints whether she's romantically interested in you or not, you'll be happier. Men are taught to be persistent, but that results in guys finding a girl they like, focusing only on that one woman, and then getting hurt and upset if she doesn't feel the same way.

It's better for men AND women to accept that it's just healthier all around to never put a specific person on a pedestal until you have an actual relationship with them.

It's not sinister. It has to do with how birth control affects your hormone levels. It's not intentionally dangerous, but doctors tend to downplay the side effects and long-term risks.

1. Meet more women

2. Make friends with women you don't want to fuck (e.g. they aren't attractive to you or they're older mentor types)

This will make talking to women much, MUCH easier than if you don't have female friends or teachers, they're also more likely to introduce you to their friends or people they think would be a good match.

i wish people would differentiate between financial capitalism and physical capitalism. financial capitalism is bad and physical capitalism is good. few people would argue against using tools as a means of production, but its the rightful ownership of those tools that is debatable.

i wish people would differentiate between financial capitalism and physical capitalism. financial capitalism is bad and physical capitalism is good. few people would argue against using tools as a means of production, but its the rightful ownership of those tools that is debatable.

Putin is of course part of the bigger plan, he comes in as the voice of logic against the western hypocrisy. But still playing for the team behind the scenes.

I'm not sure how men have been treated as disposable objects - maybe you could explain that

Who do we draft to die in a war? Who do we kill by the hundreds in every action movie and video game to save a single woman?
Who has the highest workplace accident rate?
Who gets to the lifeboats last on a sinking ship? When an invading army conquers a city, who is executed and who is kept alive?

Sure, men can be more valuable if they are wanted by other women, but by that measure women can also be more valuable by being wanted by other men.

Nope, that's not how men work at all. In fact it's the opposite if she's actually slept with any of them.

What I'm asking is whether it's alright for men to sleep around and have many sexual partners, not whether it's alright for them to be desired by many women (without any comment on how many they sleep with).

What do you mean "alright"? I'm talking about:

What the guy wants and how to achieve it.

What the woman wants and how to achieve it.

If the guy just wants to sleep around, having previously slept around isn't gonna hurt his odds. If he's looking for a good wife, again, that's probably not gonna hurt his odds.

If the woman just wants to sleep around, that's gonna be harder and harder the more she had previously slept around. If she's looking for a good husband, those odds tank hard if she's been promiscuous.

Nah

There is Egalitarianism not Feminism in the Netherlands.

I'm a Bernie supporter and I come here for the progressivism.

If it actually was T_D 2.0 then all of us independents and progressives wouldn't be here.

It's American Feminism that is the problem though...

Lol I used to work in a call center and it happens to men too. But I'm glad you based your post off of your single anecdotal experience

like "fuck men". I grew up with a father who cheated and abused my mom, that's all I knew. But after working with a bunch of good men, I know they have empathy, intelligence, and have strengths that I don't have. It's ok, we are genetically different. Women are better as "stay at home", or jobs with caring and tending to, it's what we internally register with.

I'm dutch and believe me we do have these problems. Whatever movement that's coming from the US will come over to the Netherlands.

Like the movement #CurvePower we have here. Women that are so obese, they are close to a heart attack. But they are portrayed as strong women.

Also entitled women here using the system to get control over the kids, even when the father is better for the kids. I'm 29 now and I see many relationships having these type of problems. A woman calling the police and telling that the father is abusive, so she could get him out of the house.

The elite want us fighting. It's never about equality anymore.

especially older white men

Want to know how I know you're cherrypicking?

And much like feminism, Cultural marxism is a zionist creation originating from the Frankfurt school of philosophy.

Also appears Top minds of reddit are brigading this post

happens ot men but you have to be, you know, attractive.

thank you. I know more women that push for hook up culture than I do men.

I mean maybe I don't have an attractive voice but ya know..

I have a deep voice and worked customer service in high school. Let me tell you, old ladies can be fucking creepy.

If you don't agree with feminism, you're an incel? Interesting logic.

holy shit what is wrong with you people...

"I agree with his stance on lgbt propaganda. Be gay or whatever but do not be going around propagating it like they do here in the US."

you think that's their policy? You don't think gays are being killed in Chechnya?

Should straight people never discuss anything about their sexuality with anyone?

I thought conservatives didn't want the government telling people how to live their lives? Ever have a hard time balancing these conflicting beliefs?

I believe you have some cognitive biased here. Actually put some graphs side by side. The same rates of singleness and marriage are affecting all modern societies. Netherlands isn't an exception. Some countries are a little more extreme, some a little less extreme, but all still on the same trend.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Marriages_and_births_in_the_Netherlands

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wish more people understood this

If you are even moderately attractive as a guy and ever have a delivery job, you will see this exact behavior from women, especially older women. I cannot recount the number of creepy come-ons that older women made toward me when I was a delivery guy.

Feminism is a creation of the CIA.

It is a form of political slavery...so um, yea...Ima pass on that one.