I will remain a donor.

Same here.

Thank you both for (maybe) spending your last moments in unfathomable agony.

Hey, if they're taking them out then I'll be dead soon anyway. It's not like they're taking them from people who could survive.

Interesting. Any data on the increased incidence of "brain death"? This is the first I've heard of it and I don't want to just trust one video.

but the decision can be made by a nurse, with no standard criteria to determine "brain death."

Can you show me proof of this? Last time I went in for surgery they used an EKG monitor. I was under the impression this was also used to determine brain death.

That's not true. Nothing against nurses but they don't make any final decisions in a hospital, much less life and death judgments. Also, the idea of brain death wasn't specifically tied to organ donation, just legal classification of death.

Wife is a nurse. No fucking way a nurse makes that decision. They don't decide shit at a hospital. If they want something changed, they talk to the doctor who changes the orders (if they agree) and then the nurse makes the change.

Stop spreading misinformation from shitty sources please. This is a very important issue to me personally.

You ever see braveheart?

You're absurdly naive in your trust of a system. They would probably finish the job in order to get your organs. Big money in it. Certainly worth more than you, anyway. Why let Mr. Smallwage live when his heart can fuel Soros for a few more years? He'll pay millions for it.

Thank you.

I will remain not a donor

Thank you.

i wonder what the threshold of "brain dead" is and if there are ever cases where people recover and are fine. in which case harvesting organs according to this threshold may be making avoidable errors.

They don't recover when their brain has actually died, but apparently it isn't clear and set when that has happened. How can you ever know if someone is really braindead or if they're mistakenly diagnosed as such?

http://www.medicaldaily.com/danish-teen-wakes-dead-just-doctors-prepare-harvest-her-organs-243163

It's related to the level of electrical brain activity, but because we can't measure that fully and we don't know where "consciousness" comes from, there is a chance that some people can survive or are currently alive/thinking while technically brain dead. Its an insanely small chance, but the remote possibility is enough to stop many people from donating

And most organ transplants are unnecessary -- the body will repair itself through proper nutrition and detoxification. Research Dr. Robert Morse's work for more information.

https://www.amazon.com/Detox-Miracle-Sourcebook-Complete-Regeneration-ebook/dp/B007EFW0YS

https://www.youtube.com/user/DrRobertMorseND

No, you are a fucking idiot. Try telling that to somebody with end-stage renal failure. Their kidneys literally cannot remove waste from the body.

And yet they stick with the same diet, dumping more and more waste load upon their kidneys, because they're told diet is irrelevant, take moar drugs, etc. There's no need. Educate yourself: http://www.rawfigs.com/?s=renal+failure&reg=0

Your doctor is a fucking moron. If you trust a fucking moron, I guess that makes you a gullible fucking moron.

But what if you're the fucking moron and trusting you makes me a gullible fucking moron?

Don't trust me. Educate yourself. Learn how to care for your own body and stop outsourcing your own health to somebody who has a profit motive to keep you sick.

A good diet is a good way to prevent getting sick, not a cure to terminal illness.

It might cure a terminal illness. But the diet would have to be bad in the first place. But given the number of people walking around with metabolic syndrome or diabetes maybe this isn't a stretch. But if you heart has a hole in it, or your kidneys have failed it's probably too late in the day for any kind of other intervention.

You start sentences with 'but' a lot.

Incorrect. It's the "cure" for cancer and many other serious diseases.

But that won't make money for Big Pharma -- indeed it could destroy their business within a year or two -- so you'll never hear about it through media or medical channels.

Yeah try curing stage 4 terminal brain cancer with organic carrots I'm sure it'll work

Not with carrots but yes diet is a huge part of it. If you know somebody suffering, there are many excellent clinics that can help.

Or, you know, you can just dump battery acid in their veins. Maybe your oncologist will txt you his condolences from his new yacht.

No-one's dumping battery acid in their veins. A good diet can help but a good diet is not going to change a mutation within the base sequence of DNA. It may have an effect on things such as methylation but it is not going to "cure" your cancer in any manner.

Learn how to care for your own body

That is good advice, but pretending the reason that people come down with cancer, heart, liver or kidney diseases or any of the great host of horrible illnesses that plague humanity is exactly because we "didn't care for our own body" is delusional.

Sure, people make themselves sick, but also, humans are mortal and fragile. Even people who eat right, exercise and avoid modern toxic chemicals die of diseases all the time.

When your kidneys shut down due to an infection, all the "diet" in the world won't fix it up. Perhaps you blew it by eating the wrong things, perhaps it was just bad luck, but either way, you aren't going to eat macrobiotic and have your kidneys spring back to life.

Doctor's are modern day snake oil salesmen. They do not claim to know how to cure any disease, only control symptoms with a pill, or do a surgical intervention because most are psychopaths and enjoy cutting people open.

I work in the medical field, you retard. Yes, some people stick with the same shitty diet, and guess what? They don’t live very long. Do you have any fucking idea how restrictive a renal diet is?

And out of curiosity, what’s your educational background? How is it you know so much more than my doctor?

Your doctor has been heavily brainwashed to be a good lil drug dealer for the pharmaceutical industry. (see: Rockefeller Medicine Men) My grandmother knows more than your doctor. And she's been dead for 10 years.

lol oh ok

This guy has a damn good point. If the body is sick one best and first thing you should do is give it a raw, natural, and complete diet. It's a good start.

Natural does not always mean good for you. You know what’s natural? Arsenic.

He's talking about natural food. He isn't saying to eat natural poisons. SMH, pretty standard for someone in the medical field, can't say I am not surprised.

Thank you.

Go eat arsnic then? I didnt say be retarded, I said eat naturally. Like whole wheat over white. Jesus why do people prop up these asinine arguments, anytime this subject comes up....

Because saying “eat natural food” is a stupid fucking argument.

Then you carried the argument to another level of stupidity by comparing natural foods to arsenic.

Yeah so go eat some arsnic.

So are sharks and volcanoes. Neither of those or arsenic are listed as remedies.

You do realize you can say the same thing about your source, right? "Your source is a moron. If you trust a moron, I guess that makes you a gullible moron."

Had to remove this for Rule 10. This would be a perfectly valid response without the user attack. You want to fix it I'll put it back up.

Thanks man, I put it back up =)

Pretty much every organ in the body can be damaged badly enough to not be able to repair itself. And there are not enough transplants to go around, plenty of people die while waiting.

Take care of what you have. Eat lots of veggies, stay away from cigarettes and excessive drugs of any kind including pharmaceuticals, drink a good amount of water, stay away from sugar, exercise. Living with end stage organ failure is hell on Earth. Take care of what you got.

I agree. Except you need to change sugar to refined sugar. Onions and apples etc are loaded with sugar... Have you guys noticed how molasses is the new healthy sugary alternative? It's basically what's left after they refine whatever crop they use. Sugar, fat, protein are important part of you diet, so are vitamins and fibres (not those new synthetic ones they put in cereal and other stuff)

Advise: eat stuff from nature, not from factories

Yes, that's what I meant. Generally speaking, it's probably a bad idea to go after a lot of unrefined sugar as well though

Ofc you shouldn't be drinking honey all day long if that's what you mean, but if you eat unprocessed fruits and veggies you can't get to much sugar. At least that's my opinion.

O YOU NEED A HEART TRANSPLANT? NAH BRO JUST TAKE THESE VITAMINS AND DRINK MORE WATER YEAH

SUPER MALE VITALITY /s

through proper nutrition and detoxification

hmmm..

yes, detox.. yes... i think QVC was trying to sell me some good detox the other day...

ahh yes... no scholarly citations nor definition of just wtf toxin is being detoxified, nor through which methodology... yes, more bs. :D

i think QVC was trying to sell me some good detox the other day...

Just like Alex Jones and alt-right media selling supplements to close their rants.

A youtube video is a really good source in medicine

Can be. It's just a medium, like any other. You might prefer the book.

I'm guessing you have no medical or even scientific education whatsoever. You'd know what a double blind randomized placebo controlled trial is, its value and how all consensus in medicine has to be evidence based. What you're believing in is pseudo science.

My father was a paramedic in the 80's. He once told me to never be a donor, it would probably save my life.

What was his reasoning? Any stories?

I don't have any stories but a doctor told me that at the end of the day they have to make a decision whether to harvest or not and it's a time sensitive decision. They will try everything they can to save you but if you are not a donor they will try to the very end, as a donor there is a chance they stop a little sooner in order to get the organs before their tissue dies.

It's not like they're consciously deciding to give up, but it's part of the whole decision process being made on the fly where time matters the most.

The people who declare you dead aren't the people who decide if you're suitable for donation.

No stories, as he is not a "kiss and tell" kind of guy, but he was very grave on the issue. What he implied is that paramedics were told to not try as hard to save a victims life if they were an organ donor, just keep the body alive.

I've decided to no longer organ donate as well. Money goes to the power, the best organs go to the power, no need to give them away.

If the rich people want my organs, they can purchase them at market value from my heirs or they can redistribute to a specific person. But the medical industry is little more then a rich charity fund drive at this point.

"Donate blood! Promise it won't be wasted on some rich shits full body blood detox!"

Nah. You don't give me shit. You can buy my blood.

This is a shitty reason to not be an organ donor.

opens trenchcoat I got a few extra Haitian corneas ovah heahh.

Death is natural.

In philosophical ethics, the term "naturalistic fallacy" was introduced by British philosopher G. E. Moore in his 1903 book Principia Ethica. Moore argues it would be fallacious to explain that which is good reductively in terms of natural properties

I'd say it's a pretty damn good reason. The wealthy already exploit the masses and their continued existence only buys them more time to come up with new and more elaborate schemes to exploit the masses. In fact, this is one of the ways the masses SHOULD be peacefully protesting against the elite until they have a change of heart and decide to stop fucking over the masses. You can rest assured that those organs will find their way to an elite or their offspring much sooner than they will end up in an average citizen's body.

My 1st/main reason though is the suspicion that becoming an organ donor is potentially signing a death sentence if you ever have a major accident that you could recover from in the future.

Let's say Barron needs a new heart one day and yours is a match, do you really think you're going to make it out of that hospital alive?

There is a documented minor chance that paramedics will stop trying to resuscitate sooner for organ donors, but that doesn't mean they pick and choose who gets organs or decide that they're gonna let you die. It's an unconscious bias if anything. Do you have sources that say average wealthy people get to jump the line and that poor people don't receive transplants? Have you worked in medicine?

You need an NHS.

My dad was a doctor in the 90's. He told me to be an organ donor. It will probably save someone else's life.

The whole organ donation idea seems sketchy to me.

I don't trust the mainstream idea that consciousness is in the brain, if anything, it must be spread across multiple organs. For instance, there are so many stories of people getting organ donations and then their personality changes to take on traits of the donor. And these days scientists are calling the stomach the "second brain". Your major organs all are connected to your nervous system and have neurons in them.

So if I donate my organs, what if it dooms my consciousness to some hellish confused state, being chopped up and stuck onto a foreign alien consciousness. Fuck that.

And receiving an organ does not seem that great either. Recipients get to live on immunosuppresants for the rest of their lives that have terrible side effects.

I mean, I'm sort of ok with part of me living inside someone else's consciousness if they're ok with it. But I get that it's not for everyone.

The trauma involved reminds me of the wise teachings of my old elders. Animals that live a horrible life then die, and you consume them, that bad energy will pass on to you. Always give a clean quick death to the animal and pay respect. Think of factory farms and why people are so miserable these days. The food people consume is soaked in pain and misery.

There is a saying in the Bible, something like "what you do to the least of these, you do unto me."

There are a lot of good things to be found in the Bible. Some warning stories ... but some good things, too.

It was Jesus speaking about the poor and downtrodden and what it takes to get into heaven. It wasn't talking about organ donation.

You are what you eat: terrified animals.

I think there is actually a scientific take on this. Something to do with adrenaline or when the animal receives a painful shock, if the heart is still beating (still alive), it releases a hormone into the bloodstream that makes its way into the tissues and is not good for consumption.

Recipients get to live on immunosuppresants for the rest of their lives

unless they are the super rich, and have unsuspecting farmed out clones of themselves for harvest...

what else would a billionaire spend their monies on. longevity is the ultimate consumer product.

I bet this has to do with our micro biome's. Like how if you really break it down, we have so many beneficial bacteria that live in us and work with our bodies to lets say digest things better. Some study's have shown how it's almost like a second brain that controls a lot of functions for our bodies so we don't have to.

For instance, there are so many stories of people getting organ donations and then their personality changes to take on traits of the donor.

claims there are "so many stories". doesn't post a single one of them to back up his claim of the existence of anecdotes.

hmm...

I am a kidney donor. The side effects of the drugs are nothing compared to dialysis. Because of the donation, I'm living a normal life, except I just take a lot more drugs than most people my age. The biggest side effects come from the immediate large steroid dose immediately after surgery. There are concerns long term, but what are we comparing it to?

As per the National Institute of Diabetes and Digestive and Kidney Diseases (NIDDK), the five- year survival rate for dialysis patients is 35.8%, in comparison to five-year survival rate of 85.5% for transplant patients.

Before opining on something like this, please educate yourself first instead of just posting your musings. Lives are at risk.

Thank you.

I've always wondered about organ donation from a different angle. Okay we can replace organs, but without powerful organ rejection drugs the body will destroy that organ. What does that mean long term to be on those kinds of drugs?

It sucks. Maybe being dead sucks more?

If it is a heart that is being replaced, sure. But they are transplanting things like hands now.

I'm pretty sure nobody gets a hand transplant for the fun of it.

Would it be worth having a hand and being on immunosuppressants for the rest of your life?

Depends if your mother is willing to help you out.

It saves lives.

There are three anti-rejection drugs, mycophenlate, cellcept, and prednisone. Prednisone is the most concerning, although the dose is low. The biggest problem is immediately post transplant where bone loss can be a concern.

First do no harm.

Human Organ Transplants should be banned imo, as they have caused more harm then good.

There are legite.ate donors though, terminally ill in right mind willing to donate organs before death. The issue here seems with sudded incidents and what constitutes death like state

Then my friend would be dead. Cheers.

If you reversed it though, and believed OP and his sources, would you be happy knowing that your friend suffered unimaginable pain when his organs were live harvested? Or to make it even more personal, what if it was you, deliberately paralysed and unable to communicate the pain as they cut into you and remove your organs?

I think the main point I was arguing was that transplants have not caused more harm than good. Definitely not!

That's the point I was asking you to consider from the parent reply's perspective. Is the life of some-one close to you worth more than undescribable agony of another's as they die during the supposed live-butchering?

If you believe OP, is this still something you would sign up for yourself (being the person live butchered)?

The ultimate win for everyone would be synthetic / lab-grown organs. It's hard to say if they have caused more harm than good, if we also consider that each donator may have lived their final moments in absolute agony. That would certainly contravene human rights too.

Until my friend had his kidney transplant he spent 5 days out of 7 hooked up to a dialysis machine. His life expectancy was less than 30 years old. This was an illness he had had since a young age. I also had a similar illness but luckily never needed a transplant (I had my kidney removed, under anasthetic)

I'm not sure I believe the OP anyway. I am on the donor list so guess I'll find out one day.

I do agree with synthetic or lab grown organs but until that's a bona-fide option then do people deserve to die while they wait?

Haven't had a chance to read this reply until now. Shame on you for rushing to blame me, and then mashing the downvote on me.

http://i.imgur.com/6k4jBbf.png

Thanks for finally answering the question I posed. You don't believe OP, and hence are of the position that the chance of a person suffering in their final moments are outweighed by the benefit of improving or saving the life of others.

A perfectly fine stance to take, albeit not one I agree with.

Have a nice day. :)

Hey, fuck this child who got a second chance at life! Greedy bastard!

But for real, I hope lab grown organs become the norm soon.

Source?

Studies have been done and most surgeons are psychopaths. That is why they choose a profession where they get to legally cut into people. Doctor's are virtually never looking out for your best interests, and always looking to prescribe the most expensive drug or operation that can be justified to your insurance company.

Never take anything a "doctor" says seriously. Research the condition as much as possible and attempt to treat it by yourself or with the help of family.

I recently worked for a large group of doctors to build a medical building. So I met probably 25 or so, majority of them surgeons. And although I am not qualified to assess anyone as a psychopath I can say that they were all awesome, normal, fun people.

Personality disordered people can appear charming, they can be intelligent, and understand how to blend in. However, look into their eyes while they are doing surgery or just after and you should be able to tell the type of person they really are. Empathetic people will be distraught after performing surgery, because to an extent they feel the patients pain. On the other hand, narrcissists and phsychopaths enjoy and get a rush out of performing surgery, and won't look the least bit sad.

Studies have been done

claims knowledge of existence of studies.

doesn't post studies so as to allow others to evaluate wtf they're citing.

hmmm...

You're dead right. The shills are voting you down. Our system is a Medical Mafia system of Death. I worked at a top Hospital in the U.S for 25 years. It's worse than you think. Big Pharma runs the show and it's unimaginable how many people they kill a year.

Never take anything a "doctor" says seriously.

Now you've crossed from "haha, this guy is dumb" to "this guy is actively spreading misinformation around". If you're going to say "studies have been done" you have to cite the fucking studies before you dismiss an entire profession that is designed to save your life.

People like you are the reason that Steve Jobs didn't seek medical treatment that could have saved his life. You go around and spread unsubstantiated bullshit. Is the medical industry perfect? Fuck no. Should you avoid doctors? FUCK NO.

You're merely projecting your own view of your own level of intelligence onto me.

You sound like a very angry person, triggered, by my explanation of the modern snake oil salesman known as "doctors". Not everyone drinks the koolaid. Steve Jobs is a good example of a highly intelligent, and affluent person who knew better than to risk the intervention of a profession filled with narcissists and phsycopaths.

And he died for it. You are encouraging people to take actions which will not only kill them, but in the instance of vaccines, kill people around you. I'm only angry at people like you because you make the world a worse place.

Witnessed a cornea donation from a deceased 35 year old female brought in to ER after collapsing. Vein burst in her brain... almost instant death. Guy comes in, scoops out her entire eyeball, replaces it with a cotton ball, drop eye into clear container with liquid. Repeats and I'm staring at the dead lady by looking into the two containers sitting on the table. The rest of her is on the bed. Someone can see today because her family gave away those eyes.

Ew gonna die now from reading this

Someone thanks you for your organization donations.

Lol im not gonna donate anything.

This article and the comments are making me give serious reconsideration to the subject.

Did you want to donate and now you dont want to anymore?

Registered donor or not I reckon they strip of us anything useful the first chance they get anyway.

what the fuck

Never been an organ donor. Never will be.

Same. Never

Since becoming an adult, I always have been an organ donor. Always will be.

Um... what? When my stepdad died, and was actually fucking dead, my mom was given the option to have his organs harvested at the mortuary, while he was fucking dead.

Nope. Wasn't just tissue.

No I stand corrected. Just asked my mom. The hospital asked her if she wanted his organs donated right after he died (100% dead. No heartbeat, etc.) and she declined because I don't think he ever wanted that. The mortuary asked her if she wanted to donate his tissue.

But anyway, he was still 100% dead when she asked if they wanted his organs donated.

OP is full of shit. This might be the dumbest thing on this subreddit in a while.

I have to post this here. I noticed it years ago, and have since started changing my forms at the DMV.

Whether or not you 'want' to be an organ donor, they will do it. At the DMV, when you fill out the form to renew your license, and it asks you 5-6 questions with YES and NO boxes?

Have you ever been convicted of a DUI? YES/NO etc etc etc.

The one that says "Would you like to be an organ donor?" DOES NOT HAVE A NO BOX. Literally. Its only a yes box, so you would leave it blank, waiting to be checked if you wanted no.

I literally draw a box in, write NO above it, and then check that box. Go to your DMV, check the fucking form. I can verify 3 states that do not have a NO box for organ donor.

Thats fucked up. Anyone can go back fill it in later.

Would it be better if it just had a no box? It would save a lot of lives.

Now I feel bad for harvesting organs in rimworld

They do everything to obtain donor organs even killing you. I have been telling people this stuff for a while now. most people do not believe that the people are alive when organs are removed.

Yeah, pretty sure this is bullshit. Why would doctors go through the effort of violently cutting someone open without anesthesia just so they have a slim chance of putting an organ, which may or may not actually be healthy and compatible, in someone else's body.

Cuz psychopathy.

As someone who works in healthcare, I can say this statement is 100% false.

No, I expect you to do a 5 minute google search.

Satanic Israel is guess what: The largest organ trafficker in the world. They also like to pull them right out of injured but still living Palestinians.

I am the recipient of kidney transplant. That transplant allowed me to avoid dialysis and extended my potential life span significantly. About as many people die waiting for donor kidneys as receive kidney transplants in a given year. Cadaver organs save lives.

I find it dubious that people in significant numbers would tear up their donor cards because of a report they haven't read. Research shows that most people don't donate because its typically opt in instead of opt out.

Please consider being an organ donor. You might save some lives. And organs can fail through no fault of the patient, like my kidneys did. It happened to me. It can happen to you.

I'm not posting private information on a website that likes to doxx people that disagree with them. No thanks.

Feel free to ask me questions about both. Additionally, feel free to peruse my public posting history and you will find I've talked about this stuff in real time, both my transplant and my wife's job as a forensics nurse.

Are you doubting this because I disagree with you? Read what I've posted in this thread. I know a lot about this shit. The simple explanation is that's because its happening to me.

I have the same argument against aborting fetuses without anesthesia for the baby. They get no anesthesia bec it is "believed" they don't feel pain while they are chemically killed and/or dismembered.

"Surgeon.Interestingly, while doctor and nurse made the list of careers with the fewest psychopaths, surgeons were among the most psychopathic. As surgeon Wen Shen stated in a 2014 Pacific Standard piece, “the trouble with surgeons [is]...[m]any are abrasive, abusive, and wildly self-centered—so much so that observers have speculated that they suffer from psychiatric disorders.” Shen speculates this attitudinal tendency might be traced back to the horrible, pre-anesthesia days of surgery, when the field necessarily attracted a breed of person who could operate “to a soundtrack of screams” while keeping a cool hand. That may be changing—there’s a push for a kinder, gentler surgeon afoot—but doctors in other fields and other healthcare professional still seem to hold surgeons in unique regard."

http://www.alternet.org/culture/10-careers-most-psychopaths

i think QVC was trying to sell me some good detox the other day...

Just like Alex Jones and alt-right media selling supplements to close their rants.

Thats fucked up. Anyone can go back fill it in later.

Ew gonna die now from reading this

OP is full of shit. This might be the dumbest thing on this subreddit in a while.

Lol im not gonna donate anything.

Would it be better if it just had a no box? It would save a lot of lives.

There is a documented minor chance that paramedics will stop trying to resuscitate sooner for organ donors, but that doesn't mean they pick and choose who gets organs or decide that they're gonna let you die. It's an unconscious bias if anything. Do you have sources that say average wealthy people get to jump the line and that poor people don't receive transplants? Have you worked in medicine?

Depends if your mother is willing to help you out.

I'm guessing you have no medical or even scientific education whatsoever. You'd know what a double blind randomized placebo controlled trial is, its value and how all consensus in medicine has to be evidence based. What you're believing in is pseudo science.