So is class warfare, eliminating poverty might cause certain problems while solving many others.

TPTB promote social tensions (race, gender, sexual identity, political affiliation) in order to protect their own status.

Divide and conquer

Is it possible that they also do this to slowly but surely homogenise the population?

I think they prefer division

Why?

Because if people are fighting amongst themselves then they can't fight the people in charge

eliminating poverty might cause certain problems

What problems might it cause?

Some people will have less options for vacation homes.

People might start asking exactly where the bankers money comes from.

eliminating poverty might cause certain problems

Holy fuck. How does this comment receive the most upvotes in this thread?

To elaborate, I'm referring to concepts like socialism. No doubt alleviating poverty will have more positive outcomes.

What's wrong with socialism? Socialism is the way to remedy the problem of poverty and extreme wealth concentration. Socialism means sharing both the work and the rewards that a functioning community is supposed to.

The cult of the boot-strapping individual is at the root of the modern economic and social problems. TPTB socially engineer Americans to hate sharing, hate each other, and destroy the concept of community.

Socialism erases those who are at the far right side of the bell curve.

I make a living creating IP. I work my fucking add off to create it. The skills and workflow I utilize took me years of intense work and study to cultivate.

You did nothing to help me achieve or create, so why should I hand you the returns

You did all that in a vacuum?

You're implying what? That now I owe my returns to people whom I've already paid for what they created?

Do you use roads to live, street signs, street lights, and the police who maintain their proper functioning? Where did your customers get the wealth to be able to buy your goods, how many government institutions allowed that wealth to be generated? Do you require protection by the police? Where does the value of your currency come from(government institutions and laws that deal with countless foreign governments)? This self deluded narrative that appeals to the egos of humans is oh so typical of libertarians and self proclaimed "self made people". You, your existence, and "achievements" are dependent on the government in so many ways you are unaware of, it would make your head spin if you ever became aware. There is no such thing as self made person, stop lying to yourself kid.

So.. you're implying they owe the government his returns past what they already paid for in taxes?

You, your existence, and "achievements" are dependent on the government in so many ways you are unaware of, it would make your head spin if you ever became aware of them.

Typical of a socialist to have no idea about specialisation or skill development; typical reaction of a person who's done very little if anything at all to better themselves and produce anything of worth in their meaningless and short existence.

Do you have any idea how much of what you consume is based on hard work, individual determination and motivation, artistic vision and creativity, and self-sacrifice on a level you'd be unwilling to make in this society or a socialist one? If you were aware of any of that it would make your head spin, but the truth is you're a born consumer and nothing more.

Here are some questions :

How is, "if everything suddenly disappeared you wouldn't be able to make money or survive!" An argument against capitalism?

Do you have any idea how much IP you consume on a daily basis? Do you have any idea the level of skill involved in the creation of the IP you consume? Are you aware of the personal sacrifice involved by the people who create the IP? Are you aware of how you've contributed literally nothing to their life that haven't contributed to yours, while still consuming their IP and producing none of your own?

Are you prepared to live in a world where all your mediums of interest and entertainment have either stagnated into state propaganda or disappear altogether due to more and more people thinking like yourself?

Your top comment of all time is about a movie. You have no clue how much of a disparity there is in terms of skill and motivation spread among those involved in the creation of film.

Your top post of all time is about a movie. You play PlayStation and watch documentaries.

Hope you like state-sponsored video games and documentaries.

Your top comment of all time is about a movie.

Well now we know you are a liar or you don't know how to do basic research for the claims you make. My highest comment was about a dog being woken up by an asshole cat and then goes back to sleep after it sees its human.

Your post is some enormous ad hominem motivated by your egomania and narcissism. I am very much pro capitalism, it is awesome in how it finances innovation through competition which allows unparalleled resources to be used for such causes. Through this innovation we advance humanity and improve the overall quality of life. The competition for profit causes a race to the bottom for many goods that makes them accessible to the poor and large populations. Those are just two of the many awesome pros of capitalism that make it superior to any economic system ever devised.

Before you went on some egomaniacal rant(which was quite embarrassing, full of ridiculous assumptions, and was motivated by your egomania and narcissism) I was referring to the amount of government resources you consume. You want to be and actually are a free loader obviously. You want to use all these government resources to make your wealth for free. The more government resources you use to acquire wealth, the more you should pay in taxes. Stop being a parasite and wanting something for nothing.

According to snoopsnoo.com your best comment was this:

https://www.reddit.com/r/movies/comments/3vswt6/crouching_tiger_hidden_dragon_sword_of_destiny/cxqjgcl/

But I see the dog comment. Congrats, I guess your second best comment of all time then is about Lucy.

You want to be and actually are a free loader obviously. You want to use all these government resources to make your wealth for free. The more government resources you use to acquire wealth, the more you should pay in taxes. Stop being a parasite and wanting something for nothing.

Where did you get any of that from my comments? You just pulled all of that shit from your ass.

What government resources am I using?

The more government resources you use to acquire wealth, the more you should pay in taxes.

I literally talked about paying my taxes. How do I not pay taxes all of he sudden?

Stop being a parasite and wanting something for nothing.

I talked about how much work I've put in and how much time it has taken me. Ive talked about paying for all the tools i use. Show me where I'm asking for something for nothing.

This should be good. I'm guessing just insults from here on out, lol

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I guess your second best comment of all time then is about Lucy.

No wrong again. My second comment was about the reliability of Time's film critics. You have now demonstrated you don't know how to read, which is also demonstrated with this comment of yours here.

How do I not pay taxes all of he sudden?

I never said you didn't. Learn how to read.

What government resources am I using?

I already answered this... You appear to not be following the conversation. I will copy and paste the answer to your question. There are countless government resources that you owe your existence to, do you have workers, do you have customers, what economic conditions produce the rules of your industry, who educated your workers(probably public schools), patent laws, etc.

Do you use roads to live, street signs, street lights, and the police who maintain their proper functioning? Where did your customers get the wealth to be able to buy your goods, how many government institutions allowed that wealth to be generated? Do you require protection by the police? Where does the value of your currency come from(government institutions and laws that deal with countless foreign governments)? This self deluded narrative that appeals to the egos of humans is oh so typical of libertarians and self proclaimed "self made people". You, your existence, and "achievements" are dependent on the government in so many ways you are unaware of, it would make your head spin if you ever became aware of them.

I said this

The more government resources you use to acquire wealth, the more you should pay in taxes.

Making this statement of yours

That now I owe my returns to people whom I've already paid or bartered for what they created?

that of an ungrateful person trying to get something for nothing. You are not acknowledging all the government resources you are using to make your wealth. Yes you should be taxed. Yes if you are super wealthy, you should be taxed more than the average joe. The super wealthy are using more government resources than the average joe.

I never said you didn't. Learn how to read.

Then what exactly is wrong? I pay taxes, I believe in a functioning government and free market economy. I'm well aware of what a functional capitalist society enables is citizens to do, and I'm aware that the taxes generated from its citizens enable us to have infrastructure. I'm all for it, which is why I work hard, don't expect anything for nothing, and pay taxes.

I don't believe in socialism or communism, which is what the original post I was responding to was defending. Maybe you should learn to read.

That now I owe my returns to people whom I've already paid or bartered for what they created?

This statement of mine is saying nothing about the government.

Go read the parents again. My initial comment was:

You did nothing to help me achieve or create, so why should I hand you the returns

I wasn't talking about not paying taxes, dumbass. I wasn't talking about not using public infrastructure. I was talking directly to the guy arguing in favor of socialism. You want freeloaders? It's the people who want the government to pay them dividends from work I did.

Seriously, man... you should email aronofsky and tell him that he ought to be in favor of socialism since he uses roads and electrical power. That's how your entire argument is coming across due to how inarticulate you are.

You say that because you are not informed on the total value of film and its potential to effect the human experience and society at large.

• You, on the value of "Mother!", which wouldn't exist "effect [sic] the human experience and society at large", in your society

Put your money where your mouth is and draft a letter to aronofsky antagonizing and scolding him for not giving his films away for free. Then prove that you emailed it to him.

But muh roads!!!

Your children should be cast out into the wilderness and see if they can come up with the next mega-selling app that will make them rich.

In your ideal world you should pay intellectual property license fees (i.e. rent) to the estate or descendants of:

*the creators of the programming language you use *the designers of the first computer, the qwerty keyboard, the lcd, lithium battery technology *the people who discovered electricity, superconductors, mathematics, and the ancient Phoenicians who created the first alphabet.

Banting and Best discovered penicillin and gave away the knowledge for free because they saw themselves as part of the human community.

You're working your ass off to create something you can patent so you can charge the community monopoly rent to give yourself higher status. Fuck the people who taught you, fuck the people who made it possible for you, fuck the people who live around you.

I make music and films for a living and own an independent production company.

Go write and produce a film score, then bring it to me and tell me if you'd like to give it away for free. Go write a screenplay, and then produce it as a full-feature film.

If you are incapable of such a thing, consider what it would take for you to actually do it. If someone held your kids in prison until you produced the film, how old would they be when you finally saw them again? Couple days in your mind, I'm sure.

We will give your film away for free and your compensation will be knowing how much youve contributed to humanity, sound fair?

Hope your film serves the ideological agenda of the state, comrade, or it's off to the gulag with you.

Did you invent music notation? Did you invent an instrument? Did you invent film technology? Why don't you pay license fees to those people who helped create those things for you to use? You think you are in individual who created everything for yourself?

I don't use notation, I use computers.

Why don't you pay license fees to those people who helped create those things for you to use?

Lol, I do. All my software is licensed. All my DAWs are licensed.

I pay for all the tech I use, and the creators of said tech are all compensated for their work.

Ironically, you probably pirate games, movies and music, don't you?

You've gone from a philosophical debate to personally attacking me and boasting about your awesomeness. You're so insecure it's obvious you haven't invented anything worth listening to.

But keep at it, man. Eventually, you'll produce something that's going to make you rich and then you'll have the status you so desperately seek so can look down on the poor people.

100% cop-out. Pathetic

This country has socialism for the rich, rugged individualism for the poor.

Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.

Sing it brother. People need to understand that no one they can see and touch with their own eyes and hands, or reach with their words on the internet is their enemy.

I don't care what extreme or offensive views you hold, or how much you think everything is the fault of people like me. If you aren't one of the 0.001% that rules, you are just a slave like me. We are on the same side.

That's not true, you see small minorities of people affection legislation all over the US and the rest of the world.

You might be right, but I don't think you are. It's one of those impossible to prove scenarios. Are special interest groups driving legislation, or are special interest groups media creations in order to shift the blame for legislation?

It only happens when the overarching purpose degrades tradition and values.

That's not true. Take any group of people and you will find legislation and interest groups that threaten their core values. My point is that this is the scam. Whatever you believe in, I'm sure it is under threat from someone. The result is that at election time you basically have to vote for the one candidate who cares about the thing most important to you.

You care about tradition and values. There's a party for that. Someone else cares about the environment. There's a party for that. Someone else wants the flag to have a rainbow dildo on it. There's a party for that.

But almost none of the things these politicians run on get changed. They blame gridlock. But they have no problem passing military appropriations and giving money to big industries. But there is no party for that.

Well, in other countries there's a party for each of those.

In the US there are two arties that claim to be in favor of a lot of values, but mostly differ in how hard they will fuck you for their campaign donors and how unwilling they are to listen to their voters.

You're completely blind to the issue at hand. This sub isn't for you

the zionists go for option two.

You're completely in over your head here. That is a fallacy

heell yea! left and right is just divide and conquer!!

They also divide by race, ethnicity, religion, and gender.

What do you make of the fact that mass immigration is being forced upon all white countries?

How about the fact that thinking of countries as white is kind of a joke considering the theory of race was purely country based when it was first talked about, historically.

This my team your team stuff is getting pretty weak.

The native peoples of Europe are white. This is obvious. you are not seriously going to argue otherwise, Shirley?

Are you seriously going to argue for western nations wiping their hands clean of the consequences they helped bring about through constant interference and meddling on some fantasy of 'whiteness'?

Europeans may loosely share a skintone, but I can guarantee you they don't look at us americans as one of them.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I suspect you might not, either. The native peoples of Europe are white, and they are being diluted very quickly, without getting a chance to vote on it. This is sick. Anybody who supports or argues for the dilution of any ethnic group is a sicko, pure and simple.

You could always ask a question instead of assuming and postulating on some sort of theory on immigration being a forced breeding program.

Have you ever read the Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan? I'm all for helping the poor people we are bombing, but at the same time knowing that document exists and seeing how accurately it's being played out leaves me conflicted as to what to believe

You mean how certain modern groups are posing as old world secret societies and publishing 'information' that grossly mis-translates his idea that all peoples will end up merging eventually?

It's the same idea that many our our regional ancestors werent the people that are there today. Humans are fiesty like that.

Maybe take a look at haplogroup maps around the world, specifically who "R" is and how they came from the "p" haplo group.

Dilution is actually healthy because it filters out genetic abnormalities.

Do you have any evidence for this claim?

20 cases of Fumarase deficiency (a genetic disease) in an inbred family

Von Habsburg Jaw, AKA Mandibular Prognathism and other genetic diseases arising from incest

Inbreeding-stress interactions or the results of stress from the environment and a small population

Genetic Diversity hints at better health

If you need more, I'll keep searching.

You haven't even read those, have you?

Listen, I gave you the resources, I read as much as I desired. If you wish to keep believing that inbreeding is healthy, feel free to go fuck your mother. Have a nice life.

White people procreating with white people = 'inbreeding'. Welcome to 2017.

That's.. One of the basic principle of genetics, isn't it?

It's why incesm has a much higher rate of abnormalities?

No actual evidence, then?

I'm asking you, isn't that precisely how genetics works?

People have errors in their genetic code, but as long as they don't have the same error it's unlikely to become dominant, but if you have two closely related people they are likely to have the same errors since they're based off the same DNA?

The native peoples of Europe are white, and they are being diluted very quickly,

Explain "diluted." Skin color is just a simple, semi-arbitrary distinction we humans make because we possess eyeballs. From a genetic standpoint, walling yourself off from other people outside your community makes your group weaker in the long-run. You have fallen into the same "us vs. them" false dichotomy that OP is arguing against.

What happens when you send large numbers of non-Tibetans into Tibet? You dilute the Tibetans. What happens when you send large numbers of non-white people into indigenous white areas (i.e. Europe)? Come on, think this one through...

Humans are not water; they are not "diluted." That line of thinking leads to eugenics; also Tibet is a small and poor country, and any population change can have hazards. 6 million Syrians (and not even that many going there) in a continent of over 743 million, and it's not like all 6 million will immediately mate with a local upon arrival.

Clearly you ascribe to the notion of White Genocide, which is evil and false on many levels.

The day Saudi Arabia allows a white government leader, or hell, even a black one, I'll listen to what you have to say. But while there are still players to the race game, only an idiot would say that it isn't real.

That's a good way to find yourself genocided real quick.

You should be working toward securing a future for the human race instead of white children. Or they'll face the exact same problems we do but amplified.

I live in the USA, so I fight for its citizens of all colors.

Visa holders need to go home when their visa is done.

Help refugees in their home countries.

Pretty simple, non racist stuff.

It's not just Syrians or the recent migrants. It's been happening in Europe for decades. London is already majority non-British. Soon the entire of Britain will be majority non-British. I'm not British, but I think it's a shame that a few hundred years from now most people living in Great Britain will be non-British ethnically. It's no different than if Japan became majority non-Japanese, or Nigeria became majority non-Nigerian.

Every ethnic group has a right to exist without being wiped out or mixed beyond recognition. It's not racist for British or French or Germans or Swedes to want to preserve their ethnicity like every other group. For some reason, other groups are allowed and encouraged to be proud of their identity and want to preserve it, but whites are not.

Just going to point out that modern Britons are not ethnically Britain; the Saxons from Germany and the Normans from France (by way of Scandinavia) and even Romans are their direct ancestors, who replaced the original Celtic Brits over the millennia. And before all that the Neanderthal were mated away by us Homo Sapiens in the same place. As travel technology improves the greater distances people will emigrate to, and our racial makeup will evolve, perhaps at a faster and larger rate than before, but it's not a new concept for our species.

Yes, we're all aware of the complex genetics of Europeans. They all have some amount of Neanderthal, some amount of indigenous European, and some amount of Indo-European blood, with various conquests in different countries creating different blends. British people aren't "pure", but they are most definitely an ethnicity just like any other in the world. And more broadly, Europeans are a distinct ethnic group that is quite different than Sub-Saharan Africans, for example.

I assume you think all of the world's people should eventually blend together to form one mono-ethnicity. I think that's sad, and would kill the great diversity of the world's populations. And I don't know why only Europeans are being asked to breed themselves out of existence right now.

I assume you think all of the world's people should eventually blend together to form one mono-ethnicity

That's a gross over-exaggeration; there is a huge difference in forced blending of all people and lowering restrictions on immigration (which there are many benefits to).

And I don't know why only Europeans are being asked to breed themselves out of existence right now.

Believe it or not, you are both wrong and right (but still racist). They are not "breeding themselves out of existence" but European birth rates are dropping (which is unrelated to immigration). In this case, immigration is a GOOD THING because the new populace is making up for rich(er) Europeans who due to their social status. Same thing is happening in Japan, and their economy is suffering because their harsh anti-immigration stances are preventing young people to come in and help out the aging native population.

Europe has stable birthrates, around 2 per woman. France, for example, is at 2.07, which is precisely the replacement rate, which is much better than many parts of Africa which have unchecked population growth which has increased their poverty. Why would France want to bring in immigrants when it has high unemployment and a stable birthrate? The idea that Europe needs immigrants is a myth. Even if the population decreases slightly in some places, that's better than over-population, and with automation there is actually a surplus of labor in Europe right now, which will only get worse.

Eventually, with increased immigration the European ethnicity will cease to exist. That's inevitable with the rates of immigration that are happening. Again, you don't seem to care. I do.

there are 100% undeniable differences in ethnicities. Look at the 100m dash olympics. Look at SAT scores.

Are you saying some races/ethnicities are inherently smarter or dumber than others, outside of cultural, health and economic differences?

It is 100% factually true so yes. Africans are faster, Asians are more intelligent.

cultural health and economic differences disappear when you spread races across the world and the same results appear. don't be obtuse because you think it sounds nice to say we are all the same. We are not. With that being said, i'm not advocating for discriminating or trying to arouse hate against any group. I also am not interested in pretending we are only different on the surface level; it is not true.

There is no "be smarter" gene or "run faster" gene; it's a ll still a complex puzzle of factors, but the differences, while there, are puny.

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/6/15/15797120/race-black-white-iq-response-critics

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_genetics

hey look some fake news

there ABSOLUTELY are genes that result in everything, including increased athleticism or intelligence. Black people have more fast twitch muscles, it's why they can jump higher and run faster (generally speaking). This is science. They were born with advantages that asians whites and others do not have.

I'm not familiar with what specific trait provides East Asians such as Koreans Japanese and Chinese with higher brain processing power, butnit absolutely exists. People are not the same. Evolution is real. Genetic coding is real. And our genetics are different depending on where you and your ancestors are from. These are facts.

Which gene expressions are you referring to which result in these different traits?

i don't know, i haven't mapped out and labeled the human genome to describe each part in detail. What do you think causes generally the same results in proficiency by race across countries, socioeconomic barriers, and cultures?

You honestly believe leagues like the NBA or the certain events in the Olympics can be 90% one race and that they aren't genetically superior at something like jumping or running? how?

Just curious. You speak as though you have knowledge of the subject, but obviously do not. Thanks.

i never claimed to be an expert or even educated on genetics. This is shit you learn in fucking highschool. We are all born with different abilities, some people and some groups are better at things than others, and it's because of the way we were created (our genes). These change over time based on specific people possessing specific characteristics going on to reproduce.

The Bell Curve by Charles Murray

Do yourself a solid and read it

Of course you won't but maybe others watching this convo might

https://www.vox.com/the-big-idea/2017/3/28/15078400/scientific-racism-murray-alt-right-black-muslim-culture-trump

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/voices/the-real-problem-with-charles-murray-and-the-bell-curve/

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/individual/charles-murray

The 100m being won by Jamaicans is because of the slave trade taking only the strongest to an island and then working the weaker to death to leave an incredibly strong physical gene pool. Forced natural selection by evil Europeans

I have no idea what you are talking about. I suspect you might not, either. The native peoples of Europe are white, and they are being diluted very quickly, without getting a chance to vote on it. This is sick. Anybody who supports or argues for the dilution of any ethnic group is a sicko, pure and simple.

Seriously wtf

Youtube some European people reading their DNA test results and see how "white" they are lol

So white people are not white now because youtube. Welcome to 2017.

2017 huh? Funny why don't you look beyond the 1800's lol. What "color" where the Roman's? How Vast was their Empire?? Please...

every problem in brown countries is white countries fault

lol.

Only the ones we send our militaries too.

Can't go spooging your missiles all over the place then claim safe space. This ain't Uni.

we can not take in every countries poor people. we do not have the means to sustain them. We already have homeless starving people here, we do not need anymore.

Furthermore, I do wish we'd let the shitholes bomb each other and stay out of their business. That does not mean Americans and Europeans should be held responsible to take all their citizens in to feed and clothe them.

You can't call "Oops, backsies!" in war.

you most certainly can actually. countries have done this since literally the start of war.

That's the cool thing about war, in that you don't have to do anything for anyone if you win. It's pretty absolute.

But who the hell invented the theory that if you wage war against a particular group, that you then have to invite them to be citizens in your country. It's the "teach a man to fish" quote in real life. There are countries that need some serious fucking help, and taking a few families here and there won't even scratch the surface of the issue. Not even in the same ballpark.

Technically the ones being invited are the ones we were working with, not the ones we were attacking.

Speaking of not even being in the same ballpark, you're currently in a minigolf trap.

The people responsible are criminals, it's not our fault. I love brown people as long as they don't want to jihad my country

what people don't be understand is we can't help them all. some want to take in every brown person from every shithole i. the ME and Africa and hook them up with a 2 bedroom apt near some suburbia or urban center an nice job and a pension.

we can't. we will never have the money to make this fantasy a reality as they already outnumber Western nations in population. Go watch the skittles video, it's a effective visual aid.

Like, how about a swap?

They come to Europe, and whitey goes to the middle east.

Lets give it say.... 200 years.

What do you think these places would look like then?

they didn't have to settle in sand. they made that choice. Our ancestors decided to move.

Sucks to suck.

I mean, basically, yeah.

But my point was that if our positions were now switched, the cities we built would be rubble in 200 years, whereas the desert would be vagas baby! all over the place.

We can just get rid of all welfare and the free market will sort itself out... the wealth of our planet is being siphoned by literal vampire potbellied goblins in a million different ways.

I think crypto is the way out

Dude, this statement would've been laughed at in the old /r/conspiracy. It's crazy how much the community has changed where people like this are around it.

people have been trained to hate whites and believe they are responsible for 100% of the rest of the world's suffering.

(((Impressively done)))

I don't hate whites, but you're wrong to think that the west hasn't done anything to fuck w/ other countries. Just look at the Middle East and South America. You're truly ignorant if you deny it.

the middle east was so peaceful before America!

So it's more peaceful now after waging a false war? Yeah, you're right just look at it. Nice chat, idiot.

continent is at nonstop war for several thousand years

See this is how it's actually white peoples fault though

Ahh a Trumpet w/ a anime fetish. It's always you weirdos that have some type of inferiority complex. It's ok to be white bud, you're still a majority no matter how hard you try to victimize yourself. 🤘🏽

Anime fetish? Jeez dude, you can watch anime without jerkin to it you know! Code Geass is awesome (at least that's where i assume you must've seen me discuss it? only anime sub i'm actually subscribed to). You should give it a watch!

Furthermore, idk how pointing out that everything bad everywhere is not whiteys fault = inferiority complex but lulz okay have fun with your life ✌️

Not an argument

Wasn't supposed to be, but ok.

Exact same comment 17 hours ago 🤔

Are you a shill?

Cowering out and pulling the post history out are we?

Are you a shill?

Yes, I get paid in shitty memes. You've caught me.

It wasn't actually at war for several thousand years. For most of its history, it's been far more civilized and unified than Europe. Even after Europe became dominant, it was still far more peaceful in the Middle East under the Ottomans than it was in Europe where they had constant battles between different powers.

As I also recall, it wasn't the Middle East that started two world wars either.

Fun fact: The dominant ideology in the Middle East before America jumped in was secular nationalism. Then the Americans decided that funding 'freedom fighters' was better.

Before America, Great Britain and France were fucking up the middle east. Before that, it was relatively stable for quite a long time was it not?

if you ignore several thousand years, sure.

Several thousand years before the relative stability?

The Syrian refugee crisis was manufactured by President Obama's CIA, and the historic movements of 'refugees'. This was their desired solution to the manufactured problem. It really isn't about race or nationality, those are secondary factors to the true goal of global social engineering.

The native peoples of Europe are white.

They're "white" because they're ancestors came to Europe where lighter skin was an advantage to absorbing vitamin d. But their ancestors weren't white when they first left Africa, the climate of Europe made them white.

'Out of Africa' theory has been debunked.

Plz share

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2017/05/22/europe-birthplace-mankind-not-africa-scientists-find/

Thanks. Better source cuz Telegraph sucks.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/controversial-study-suggests-earliest-humans-lived-in-europe-not-africa/

Eastern Mediterranean, then.

No it hasn't. Scientic evidence puts the origins of mankind in Africa. Do some research.

Funny how you ask for sources from others, but provide none yourself.

No such thing as white.

Europeans are a massive melting pot of Saxxons, Arabs, Italians, Greeks, Jews, Slavs, Franks, Scandinavians, etc etc... That's what made European culture evolve so fast, cultural melting pots are extremely innovative.

No such thing as white

2+2=5

There are four lights!

Lol! It's important to understand, the reason there IS such a thing as black people. In reality there shouldn't be. Africa is a huge continent, sub-saharan Africa alone is bigger the continual Europe.

So it should be, Urubus, and Wambesis, Bantus and Zulus... etc. However since the ethnicity of the African American people were taken from them during slavery, and they were mixed for breeding purposes, they largely don't know where they are from, or have no connection to that heritage.

Therefore they created the ethnicity of Black, to cover themselves for lack of any other ethnicity.

That doesn't suddenly make all Europeans "white". The Nazis believed you could biologically divide humanity into 3 races, the negroid, the mongoloid and the Arian, with further divisions inside the categories.
Of course it was utter hogwash, with no biological consideration at all.

And they desperately tried to move the Jews out, claiming either they were some kind of negroid, or a type of nomadic Oriental. (not a joke)

So while you can certainly describe a person as "white" if he/she has low melatonin, descriptions can be simple, it has no bearing on reality at all.

theory of race

DNA is a thing.

The African immigration is to spread aids. The Arab immigration is to create havoc. Old school Arabs in modern settings is too much freedom so they know it would cause problem. More importantly, they can use all this as an excuse to create false flags and blame them terrorists from Arab ghettos.

You seem to suggest that immigration is a bad thing. While I don't have a strong option on the issue myself, wouldn't it be fair to say that even if mass immigration was being (as you say) FORCED upon "white nations" that if wealth were distributed more equally within the country that crime/ideological tensions wouldn't be as high as they are now?

From my experience, tensions only arise between races and/or ethnicities when there is a mass wealth divide which creates a sense of arrogance on the side which had wealth, a sense of helplessness, frustration, and anger on the side which does not, and a strong cognitive disconnect amongst them both.

Sounds to me like you are defending forced white diluton. You disgust me.

why would white countries want to share their resources with foreign invaders?

You mean why would humans want to share human resources with other humans? Oh I dunno, maybe because we're all human regardless of what colour or skin is and we all need and crave the same things - food, water, shelter, friendship, love.
Why wouldn't you want to see other humans make sure they get these human necessities?

there are a finite number of available resources the way our economic systems currently operate. we (the West) literally cannot provide these things for the entire world. it is impossible.

I'd rather my friends and my people have what's theirs than be forced by the government to give half my land and food to foreigners who think i am a degenerate heathen because i associate with gay friends own a dog and think women should be allowed to do everything men can do.

Cultures are not equal, many people do not agree with things we consider to be the most basic form of respect or rights. I'd have been thrown from the top of a building or stones to death a long time ago in a different country. fuck those people.

Finite at any given time. Food and water is renewable though over time. Food grows and water flows. The only reason our resources are stretched thin in the West is due to apolitical psychopaths in political power who don't care for bettering the country or world, but rather for personal gain at the expense of those who their banker overlords want to bomb at the time, so they siphon off as much money from the circulation as possible for the war machine and keep as bare little as they can available for us to spread thin in use growing our own food and bettering our education and schooling.
From a physical resource standpoint, I was lucky to be born in "the west". I've learned that I clearly don't need a much as they try to convince us we need through our consumerist culture. Therefore I'm completely fine in sharing those resources with other human beings who need them because I have enough. We're not sharing these things with the whole world. Only the relatively small percentage who are coming to the west for refuge because their own countries are being destroyed by our militaries. If you're not willing to help the person whose family your tax money went to help kill then you're not a very compassionate person.
Some people who've lived their lives somewhat isolated from Western socially liberal culture may not understand or respect it at first, so I can see your concern, but if you put in the time and effort to understand and respect another humans culture then they are more likely to do the same for you. You can't change a whole group of people, but if you put in the time to learn then you can change people one by one.

many "refugees" who have sought shelter in the EU do not even come from war torn nations. many are admittedly economic migrants.

Furthermore if our war did destroy their home, just as they were not responsible for it, neither am i. I owe them nothing.

You can't change a whole group of people, but if you put in the time to learn then you can change people one by one.

I am not willing to teach while my friends and family are attacked assaulted raped and killed because they're homosexual, or wearing too little clothing, or because they walked their pet past the wrong neighborhood or building. Cultures are not equal. Savages are not worthy of sympathy when they act barbaric, when their laws are barbaric.

You clearly live somewhere I don't if you have so many of your friends and family being attacked, killed and raped by these immigrants. Spend a lot of time in court? First hand experience?

I read about the laws and customs of other countries and cultures. I enjoy traveling so i make it a point to learn their basic rules before going wherever i am headed to next.

Many places are not so kind to what we consider to be normal and acceptable behavior.

Do you know what honor killings are? Do you know how many festivals in europe have been canceled because of sexual assault spikes? do you realize that women walking down the street in a mini skirt and a tank top are "asking to be raped" in the eyes of many? Do you know what the law says to do to women, homosexuals, basically any person who is not a Muslim man with a beard under sharia law? Do you watch the news showing the "peaceful protests" in europe with hundreds of middle easterners waving ISIS flags and claiming the Islam will conquer the world?

it really blows my mind that others can witness the same world that i do and come out of it with the conclusion "huh, these people are just like me and are as nice as my friends and family. cultures are equal, morally and ethically across the world, please come bless me with your diversity."

Fuck all that. I am an actual progressive in that i care about the rights and safety of my friends and of those not in power. If you ask me to ship a bunch of backwards barbarians from halfway across the world who want to kill them for having the gall to fuck who they like to fuck or wear what they want to wear, I forever and always will tell you to pound sand kick rocks and fuck off.

You didn't answer the question. So I assume your answer is "none"?

My cousin that grew up in hong kong and later went to school in Norway was harassed for wearing a skirt while vacationing somewhere through Europe two years ago. She told me about her experiences that Christmas but you don't actually give a shit.

and because as we all know, things don't happen unless they happen to you or someone you immediately know. just disregard everything i posted in my previous comment and everything that comes with importing millions of people who hate core progressive values entirely.

I've never seen a hippo in person. That doesn't mean if i did that i'd run up to it and try to climb on it's back like a horse. Because i know what hippos do, because humans are able to spread information to each other through means besides personal testimony.

So you're basically saying that you have zero experience and you're basing it because your cousin said someone in Europe bothered her?

Therefore, an entire race and religious group are scum that deserve to be killed. Amazing.

First of all, Indonesia is the world's largest Muslim majority country. Indonesians are the largest (or second largest) minority group in HK. Your cousin would've interacted with Muslims far more regularly and on a much larger scale in HK than anywhere in Europe.

Secondly, I've actually lived in a Muslim country. And guess what? They're normal people. They're not mindless 'savages.' They're normal people that just want to get by. Some have progressive views (for example, American Muslims overwhelmingly vote for secular and progressive parties - Bernie Sanders won their vote - and are more supportive of gay marriage than American Protestants), and others have conservative views.

You've probably never interacted with a Middle Eastern or Muslim person. That's why you've got such extremist views. You've managed to dehumanize them through stewing on hate forums to the point where they're just 'mindless savages' to you.

My advice is to actually interact with one rather than just listening to what ihatesandniggers66 on the_donald tells you.

Good thing you can't do anything about it and people like I are helping them come over through private sponsorships and hosting them in our basements and homes.

Oh there's plenty being done about it. Hillary wanted to increase refugees by hundreds of thousands and that helped her lose.

It's sad you'd rather help people that are the least progressive society in the world, people who treat gays and women like animals, than your local poor or homeless.

They don't though. They come with their families, find jobs, then get out on their own and rent their own place. Then the next family comes in. They don't hate anyone, they show a lot of respect to the country for accepting them.

It's sad you'd rather help people that are the least progressive society in the world, people who treat gays and women like animals

Trump flew to Saudi Arabia, danced for the king, basically sucked their dicks, and sold them weapons.

He also excluded them from his ban.

But yeah, keep whining about Hillary.

Also, polls have shown that American Muslims are actually more progressive than right-wing American Christians.

Do you know how many festivals in europe have been canceled because of sexual assault spikes?

Islam prohibits any form of premarital sex or gender mixing. No practicing Muslim would go to a festival.

Do you know what the law says to do to women, homosexuals, basically any person who is not a Muslim man with a beard under sharia law?

Do you know that none of the countries that these immigrants come from practice sharia law? Algeria, Tunisia, Syria, etc. are all secular states.

No, the only country that practices real sharia law is Trump's bffs Saudi Arabia. But hey, I'm sure you don't mind it when Trump flies to Saudi Arabia to suck their king's dick.

it really blows my mind that others can witness the same world that i do and come out of it with the conclusion "huh, these people are just like me

That's because we've actually traveled and interacted with Middle Easterners and Muslims and don't gain our knowledge of them exclusively from the_donald. We know that they're actual humans and not just mindless drones who think of nothing but the sharia law boogeyman.

If someone was to base their view of Trump supporters on what they read online from biased sources, they'd think you're a bunch of genocidal inbred pigfuckers who want all non-whites killed or deported. Yet I'm sure you'd despite that claim.

I am an actual progressive in that i care about the rights and safety of my friends and of those not in power.

Suuure you do. Let's be real here. You don't give a shit about women, gays, or rights unless it involves Muslims. If a conservative Christian tried to implement religious law, outlaw booze or whatever, you'd ignore it. Hell, if they were a Trump supporter, you'd probably praise it.

when their laws are barbaric.

Uh. You do realize that the overwhelming majority of Muslim majority nations have legal systems based off of either French civil law or English common law, right? Religious law generally only plays a role in family law, and that's not something unique to Islam, Jewish courts in the US do the same thing.

It remains that way because it's supported by the religious conservative majority since old colonial laws have many things in common with religious law.

Religious law generally only plays a role in family law

Umm if you are in the west sure that's how most religious courts work in western countries. I'm in Malaysia considered a moderate country, and this is not really true at all, religious law have more jurisdiction and can overule state law at times.

When countries become developed, woman become more educated causing population growth to decline and to stagnant. Immigrants help fill the void of stagnation and provide services/work to help drive nation's to progress further.

fuck off.

we do not need hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming to grant us with their diversity through out breeding the native population because they're too stupid to use birth control or they don't care because the government gives them additional money for each child they bear.

We do not need to be india where every corner and pocket of space has 6 guys sharing it as a home. We do not need to grow indefinitely like cancer.

Immigrants also almost universally vote for big government handout parties that strangle the ever living fuck out of the economy with taxes. I don't think these open borders types understand the concepts of resource and supply & demand.

/>implying that wage stagnation and corporate welfare isn't the thing strangling the US economy.

Kek.

Where did I imply that? Come up with a more convincing strawman next time

You know how when you hear someone talk about "seizing the means of production" you can be pretty sure that you know what they think about the redistribution of wealth? That's an implication, and if it looks like a corporatist and sounds like a corporatist, you'll forgive me for thinking it's a corporatist.

TIL capitalism is synonymous with corporatism

Are you even trying?

TIL spouting corporatist talking points = capitalism

Are you even trying?

Interesting. Feel free to tell me what those points are, and how they differ from those of free market capitalism. It always amuses me, listening to economically illiterate redditors stumble over themselves in sanctimonious confusion

Both sides are for big govt.

One side just wants to have more contractors so that they can be owners and just funnel that contract money right into their bank acct.

There's more than two sides

We are human, we are so genetically close knit that we are practically all the same. Race genetically does not exist. Humans helping humans is all I'm seeing and that's ok by me.

We do not need to grow indefinitely like cancer.

Yet here you are, spreading your cancer.

pointing out the US does not have the means nor the reason to support the entire worlds poor populace = spreading cancer

maybe if we stop bombing people homelands they won't want to leave?

'we'?

Well....it is our tax dollars paying for those bombs. And paying the salaries of the people who drop those bombs. And paying the salaries of the people who order those bombs dropped. And, somehow, the public (we) keep voting for these same people over and over

So yes....we

yeah we've really been bombing the hell out of mexico lately.

We've been supporting the drug trade and cartel violence. Same same

wow now the cartel is the US' fault. what isn't at this point i guess?

When will we expect any sort of personal responsibility from the native countries with issues like this?

The CIA is the cartel.

wow now the cartel is the US' fault.

Has been for a long time.

literally not one word of that article discusses the cartel or how the US funds operates and supports it.

Lol, r/conspiracy in a nutshell.

I never said that, but Nixon started the war on drugs for all the wrong reasons. That is why the Cartel exists, whether they are helped by the CIA or not, you take a trillion dollar economy and make it illegal, you just built a trillion dollar criminal economy.

Not only is the CIA involved. But US citizens are their biggest customers.

We?

A lot of migrants to Europe are economic migrants from Sub-Saharan Africa. Germany and Sweden aren't bombing Nigeria, so I don't really see why they're expected to take in Nigerians into their countries.

Don't engage with the globalist shills. Top comments in this thread are disgusting. You can't fix the 3rd world by bringing hoards of rapists and terrorists into the first world when they hate everything about us on a moral and ethical level.

What if some of them would consider it reasonable to put strict expectations of minimum standards on them?

Learn the language (with aid) within 1 year, find a job within 1 year after that, or your application is denied.

Even if they were to learn the language and find a job (impossible for 80% of them) they would still idolize their "heritage" and learn to hate everything about the west. They will knowingly lie and claim that "real" Islam is indeed a peaceful religion when in fact we know that many of today's terrorists are second generation citizens born in 1st world countries which took their families in, offered them financial aid, opportunity and freedom...and they openly reject it.

Religious brainwashing combined with a distorted world view and a gene pool that has suffered from rampant inbreeding for over a thousand years isn't something you can fix with a new setting and a handful of cash.

If they break the law in their new country then they should be deported. Otherwise if they are just celebrating their own culture then let them.

And if they're found to do that we throw them the fuck out.

I give you that we're not going to agree over accepting refugees from, for example, Syria, but given that they ARE coming here, surely there are things we could agree on how we treat them if they are? I don't want them to come here without any conditions at all - it demeans those who want to work and start a new life, and it enables those who, like you say, are not at all interested in doing anything but harm those who are not like them.

Good question.

Stop bombing people's homelands is a legitimate answer to the original post, but isn't that the conspiracy in the first place?

It's also true that influencing a nation's people to believe nationalist (cultural, ethnic) sentiment is a bad thing is pretty fucked up, and wrecked by "leftist" or "globalist," if either term applies, propoganda as well.

We could all get along, yes. But the way they make us see it and the way the events are orchestrated are intended to create division. The root of the problem.

Was more thinking of countering "don't engage with globalist shills", which I assume - possibly in error - to be everyone who sees benefits in a more connected world.

But refusing to deal with everyone who disagrees with you on any topic is exactly how things got as fucked up as they are, when there are probably many things we could agree on that the politicians are being sourpusses about, or that you think we disagree about but are actually of surprisingly similar mind (thinking 'globalist shills' all want completely open door policies vs many of them being more in favor of a 'work program' with the possibility of immigration).

Forced assimilation?

My Orwell senses are tingling.

More like "good faith effort" to be accepted - I don't see anyone who genuinely wants to come here to escape a bad situation to see those expectations as unreasonable, every one of them I've met would've been overjoyed to have the chance to make an honest living here.

If you call everyone who disagrees with you a shill then you're part of the problem and missing the point of the post.

People that agree with me, and people that dont.

maybe if we stop bombing people homelands they won't want to leave?

Totally part of the GLOBALIST AGENDA ^TM

The "white countries" are also the countries with a strong middle class... people who, for generations, have had time and an education so they can actually think.

I think it's meaningless fear mongering

What do you make of the fact that mass colonization, not just immigration, of whites was forced upon the entire Earth and the rest of humanity?

That isn't a fact.

Why should there be "White" countries?

Why shouldn't there be?

This is some delusional circle jerk. The vast majority here are far right wing and think the government is the devil trying to destroy you and your family. If you think the government is the devil then you are right wing, stop trying sugar coat things and stop lying to yourselves that benefits no one.

You must have a hard time reading. Jesus Christ.

What did I have a hard time reading kid? Tell me and I will explain how I am not having a hard time reading? You have contributed nothing of value to this discussion. If you can't explain your claims/statements and argue your case, you are just a typical irrational human.

This is a post saying that labeling people as left wing or right wing is counter productive, and you labeled people as right winged for thinking a thing. I would consider myself very left wing and I am a Marxist, but I do believe that government is, by and large, a bad thing. Also, if you read any Marx, you would realize that he might as well have been an anarchist with how much he hated the government, and I doubt you would call him 'right winged'.

your name is ironic /u/FreeThinkingMan.

Being against the government and regulations is the very definition of right wing by political scientists, just in case you weren't aware.

I can't find any legit political science or political economic definition that even remotely defines right wing like you think.

Well you should ask your college for a refund because these are the basics of political science here. Here is some light reading to catch you up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_political_spectrum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_spectrum

Are you really this dumb? Or 12?

If you can't explain your claims/statements and argue your case, you are just a typical irrational human screaming baseless opinions as facts.

Yes that's what we do!

Being against the government and regulations is the very definition of right wing by political scientists

I did a keyword search for "government", not anywhere on your wikipedia article does it say right-wing or fascist are against the government or regulations. Please find me the relevant section.

Don't be willfully ignorant and lazy.

The contemporary Right in the United States is usually understood as a category that includes social conservatives, Christian conservatives, free market liberals, and economic libertarians who are often identified with the Republican Party. In general, the term right-wing is understood to imply a commitment to conservative Christian values, support for a free-market economic system, support for a strong national defense, and support for traditional family values. The contemporary center-right usually defines itself as promoting deregulation of banking, commerce, and industry.[51]

If you don't know the meaning of words use a dictionary or click the blue hyperlinks on the Wikipedia page. I will do the leg work for you this time but I should not have to hold your hand this way. "Free market" and promoting "deregulation" are words that mean what in your mind in regards to positions on the role of government and regulations? Stop being lazy.

None of that says it's against the government. You're reaching really far.

Wow you really are delusional and willfully ignorant. Being against regulations(aka for deregulation) is a position on the role of government... Being for "free markets" dictates a role on government. Stop the mental gymnastics. There is no reaching at all, just you not knowing what the concepts and meaning of words are. Again, look up the meaning of words and then reread that wiki article.

Lol. You're the one doing the mental gymnastics. It's pretty obvious. I should have realized earlier.

You have no logical argument for your position. I presented one, you just put your fingers in your ears and said I was wrong based off nothing. Educate yourself on what these concepts are and you will realize how they positions on how much government should be involved in the affairs of the world. If you need me to hold your hand further along, I will be happy to explain these concepts and how they undeniably imply/dictate a role the government should play I affairs.

Being against regulations(aka for deregulation) is a position on the role of government... Being for "free markets" dictates a role on government.

My argument is that you were wrong. I proved that by showing you had no idea the definition of right wing. What's funny is that you've slowly changed your argument so you could seem right. I don't fall for that shit on Reddit. Move your goalpost back to your original statement and stick with it or admit you were wrong or over simplifying. You claimed it was defined as you said. You're flat out wrong for now.

My argument is that you were wrong

That is not an argument kid... Learn what argument is so you can be ABLE to engage in rational adult discourse.

Being against the government and regulations is the very definition of right wing by political scientists

I didn't move any goal post... You just don't know what free market or deregulation means and implies and are too willfully ignorant to read the Wikipedia articles on those articles. Those two words mean exactly what I was originally arguing. Again, I can hold your hand and explain the meaning of these concepts to you if you are too lazy to study them yourself. What do you need me to explain to you?

You keep repeating the same incorrect things and try to justify them by saying that because you can read "code words" that it means something it doesn't. Please find me a credible political science definition of right wing that says they are against the government. Period. That was what you said. Your shit at writing and still don't know you lost.

Those aren't code words... Look up the meaning of those words kid. If you want to be willfully ignorant on the subject go ahead and be incorrect the rest of your life. If not, read those Wikipedia pages I linked and look at the sources/references on the bottom of the wiki page, there are countless sources there.

Like I said.

What did you say? Provide an argument kid.

I don't know why you keep saying kid and "provide and argument". You're a moron.

You said "like I said", I asked "what did you say?"... Speak child. Present a logical argument like an adult, engage in a thing educated people call rational discourse.

Keep commenting, I'm bored any way, and it keeps showing how dumb you are for anyone that looks at your post history.

So you aren't going to provide an argument or explain what you said. Go figure. Continue to be willfully ignorant.

I already did. Like I said. Look back at earlier posts. Just because you keep saying the same thing didn't make you right. You're still wrong about the definition. It's up to you to provide proof backing up your claim with the actual words. Not your interpretation of what the words mean.

It's not uncommon for those who support right wing politics to want SMALLER government and reduced regulations... but they are not inherently against the concepts. I have no idea why you would think otherwise, it's patently absurd.

Don't straw man me and stop with the mental gymnastics. People who are against the government and regulations are by definition for SMALLER government... How you typed what you did without coming to this realization means you have a poor grasp on the meaning of concepts and definition of words being used.

"Don't straw man me and stop with the mental gymnastics."

"How you typed what you did without coming to this realization means you have a poor grasp on the meaning of concepts and definition of words being used."

And the prize for most Ironic Reddit comment 2017 goes to...

People who are against the government and regulations are by definition for SMALLER government

I just refuted your counter argument kid. You have nothing to say in defense of your argument. I think you and others are confusing my use of the word 'government' to mean "a government". Obviously people can be against their current government and not be right wing(if that is how you interpreted my original comment). I am discussing people's ideal role for government in the affairs of their lives and the economy. Right wing means you want smaller/less government involvement and fewer regulations. Around the entire world this is true. Left wing and right wing are not complete false social constructs(even though the specific differences between left and right vary per country), they refer to very specific concepts that are very real. It is important to know what they refer to. In the context of this conversation, this subreddit is obviously very right wing.

you didn't refute shit? you just made a blanket statement that was so far from the truth, that you would need to break light speed to ever hope to catch up to it.

you constantly state that being right wing means you don't want any form of government, yet now you're trying to play it off as though you were just saying they want smaller government, nobody is fooled by this. you clearly don't know what the fuck you're talking about... especially since you're calling the CONSPIRACY subreddit right wing.

Guys an idiot.

Not at all, r/conspiracy is probably the mosy evenly split on the political spectrum (that gets into politics anyways) next to r/AskTrumpSupporters. It just seems like its full of right wingers because they'd be out of the norm anywhere else. Making them stand out more here and give off the illusion of being a larger base than they are.

It just seems like its full of right wingers because they'd be out of the norm anywhere else.

That makes no sense. The "government is the devil" and trying to kill your kids sentiment is always the comment or post voted up to the top meaning that is the majority position. That means right wing is the majority position. If you think Asktrumpsupporters is evenly split your reality barometer is a bit off. Fringe alt right is the main demographic for that sub. Trump's policies are far right, any of the "leftists" who support him aren't leftists by definition no matter what they think of themselves.

And who exactly are "they"? The evil media? Big corporations? Politics? Of course there are agenda's but we as people devide, generalize and discriminate on a daily basis, It's in our system to do so. You couldn't last half a day without generalizing because It's a very usefull survival mechanism. "Better not slow down at that crossing because not all crossings are dangerous, guess I'll just smoke because not everyone dies of lungcancer, those three elderly white ladies form just as much as a potential threat to my wellbeing as those hooded black teens standing on the corner". Politics, media, corporations etc. are behaving as a logical extension of our behavior, not the other way around. There is no conspiracy here.

The people who control the propaganda are the ones who divide us. They use slick techniques that the mind doesn't really capture. All the mind captures is the subliminal message.

Lets just cut the team sports in general idk

Totally agree with you friend. We should be focusing on corruption by all politicians and mega billionaires, no matter what political background they have.

There's too many people who are purposely trying to divide us.

Yeah the Russia nonsense is getting old alright.

You're free to your opinion as I am mine.

Nonsense? Have you been laying attention? Did you even see the news today?

The bankers controlling everything is the real problem.

No other issues exist until this one is taken care of.

It's just like Hitler said, the fight for the destiny of the world depends on what we do about the bankers, everything else is facade and illusion!

.....

I was with you until "It's just like Hitler said!"

People who did terrible things can have good ideas.

well he had to say a ton of idealistic shit in order to convince a single country to go to war against the entire world and millions of their own people.

there are probably 1000s of great hitler quotes lol

That's what his comment started with, though.

Yeah... except that he worked very closely alongside Goldman Sachs. So u know... his credibility is just a touch lost.

Nazi GOLD!!!

The spear of destiny. !

New conspiracy: Hitler didn't kill himself.

Or was he simply following his own advice?

Can't beat em, join em.

There are plenty of theories out there that hitter was hand selected by the Rothschilds to lead the German armies. B they knew his personality would pull the people together, but that his insecurities would never allow him to win the war.

Looking back, what a great selection for them. WW2 was the tipping point where USA took over world control.

I'd probably agree on this. It's such a stupid theory that he went genocidal because one guy didn't like his art. Always confused me that people actually believe that shit.

And it's not exactly easy for me to see this differently. Much of my family died to Nazis and Stalin's crazy antics.

I mean... there's also the holocaust tainting his credibility. There's that

You forgot the "Jewish" adjective that always precedes any conspiracy about "globalist Jewish bankers " ruining the world. The strongest tool of both Nazi Fascist Totalitarianism and Soviet Authoritarian Totalitarianism was conspiracy, in order to breed terror among every citizen and to further their witch hunts. Please read a book.

(((Bankers)))

I completely agree. This depressing reality is something I would like to change. How do we do it without a full scale revolution? Will the federal reserve and wall street continue the cycle of bursting financial bubbles and creating wars until the end of time?

When there's such a huge amount of money and politics involved, how can one or ten or even a hundred thousand people make a difference? I wish I knew the answer. I hate the power of money.

Why can't big interests just be good people? We have multiple billionaires sitting on their asses, NOT creating worldwide food distribution methods, NOT creating massive clean energy farms, NOT caring if CO2 emissions literally destroy the earth as we know it.

I'm starting to believe the world of mad max is our future. Unless the rich and powerful suddenly decide to work together in a meaningful, large scale, productive manner, I fear that billions will eventually die, simply from poverty. Automation will drastically increase the unemployment rate, and that increase in revenue and productivity needs to go somewhere. God forbid it goes back to the people, the people who helped create this world by living in it and contributing to it.

No, let's just keep fighting pointless wars in the interest of oil and weapon sales, all under the guise of patriotism and "homeland security." If you didn't know, 9/11 was a false flag operation that involved many, many parties. I could go into this, but if you're reading this on this sub then you probably know more than I do.

Our rights and our privacy are being stripped at an alarming rate. I don't feel safe at all around law enforcement. If you go against the grain, even legally, you will get fucked. If you look slightly out of place, you get profiled and treated like a criminal.

America isn't free, and we haven't been for a long time. That income tax you pay? Unconstitutional. There is no law that requires you to pay income tax, or file a tax return. It's a scam, and the tax itself ONLY PAYS FOR THE INTEREST ON THE LOANS THAT WERE LENDED BY THE FEDERAL RESERVE IN THE FIRST PLACE. It's a fucking scam, and hundreds of millions pay into it year after year. It is impossible to pay it all back. It's a machine that perpetually runs itself because we keep feeding it.

But, fuck us for wanting societal equality. Pull up your bootstraps kiddos, we're in this for the long haul.

There's the Wolf-PAC, isn't there?

The money interests*?

It's not solely bankers providing election funds.

Yeah but a right winger wouldn't say that

And the "left" has been trying to raise this as an issue for decades, but they were decried as "commies" and now as "socialists." Meanwhile, the only commentary from the right is entirely tangled up in anti-antisemitism - they can't seem to keep ahold of a valid criticism of the global elite without crying "Jews! Jews! Jews!"

Koch brothers... one of them ran for president as a libertarian. So, yeah...peace out.

These posts are almost as bad as the daily "it's a distraction" posts

haha, this all the more funny because a few posts above the OP is an "it's all a distraction" post

Is it the same 10 people, or a bot, or what? We get it people!!

Oh, even better are the posts, "Give me your best evidence that XX event happened."

9/11 actually never happened. The Illuminati actually just wanted the site for their headquarters and needed an excuse to tear down the buildings. Why there? Ley lines.

Unfortunately, it's a daily reminder we clearly need. We will need it until everyone on here gets on the same page, and starts working together against the real issue.

Isn't the 'real issue' a distraction as well?

Haha, you think that eventually everyone will be on the same page? Naive

Yes I do believe that eventually it will happen. It doesn't have to be everyone, just enough people to make a difference. It's happening more and more every year, people are starting to become aware.

Awwwwwwww

Two wings of the same bird!

Two wings of the same bird...

of prey

an Eagle, you say?

vulture?

both?

i have heard they are close cousins

YOU LEAVE MICHEAL KEATON OUT OF THIS!

A warhawk.

https://youtu.be/woLQI8X2R6Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABfsIInfXgU

I prefer two cheeks of the same ass

Image

Amen there is one conspiracy and one struggle.

I believe it's a symptom of the "one conspiracy," the federal reserve. "Give me control of a nation's wealth, and I care not for its laws."

It's not just left vs right. It's also men vs women, black vs white, young vs old, poor vs rich (not elite rich, just upper class). All of these divisions were pushed by the media in the past election more than they have in a long time.

Don't forget gender these days as well.

I said men vs women.

vs other

The complete lack of self awareness... To come to a post about stopping infighting only to downvote someone who does not believe in the gender binary because you disagree. C'mon.

Because you literally have to be mentally ill to believe there are more than two genders

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

^{HelperBot v1.1 /r/HelperBot_ I am a bot. Please message /u/swim1929 with any feedback and/or hate. Counter: 96687}

for the record that was /s

But you didnt include all the genders, you nazi.

What a misguided gender peon. I'm glad they're gone now.

lol isn't that the opposite of the spirit of this whole thread? Don't get me wrong the whole more than 2 gender thing makes no sense to me, but if we're talking coming together... it includes those that think otherwise.

Nah, fuck those, only my kind can join.

We were so close D:

sex and gender aren't the same things.

Now here's the thing. I work in confectioneries and we make chocolates, taffy, fudge, caramels, and some hard candy as well. Now I'm a straight guy. Sometimes it's necessary to pull the taffy a little longer until it's firm enough to stand on its own, or pack a little extra fudge just fill the package...

No, you can't have get drunk and accidentally have gender then regret it in the morning.

found the grammar school dropout.

I identify as a potato how dare you not include my gender i am a beautiful potato

Not taking into account the poor Russets that are being bullied around by the Yukon Golds? Bigot!

Russets can be apples too!

Sometimes I like to pretend I'm a potato.

I slice some strips of skin off and deep fry them, top that shit with a little sea salt, yum!

What's funny to me about how this is dividing people is that it wouldn't work if we didn't have the technology we have. Without smart phones I'd bet a thousand bucks it wouldn't have been able to divide or at least "divide" the people.

In my opinion I would have thought the opposite, funnily enough. I feel like technology and the ability to connect with people all over the world instantly is what's been enough to remind lots of people "oh yeah, we're all human. We're not that different after all." whereas before when people lived in their little, isolated bubbles of society they would have no idea what someone from half way around the world was like. You could tell someone they were an uncivilised savage and they'd have no way of proving you wrong.

Thats the one thing that gives me more hope for the future than anything - I am old enough to have been an "Adult" in the 80s, when all we had was maybe 2 main news bulletins per day and the newspapers for facts. lol People still knew a lot was bullshit but if you only get told A by every source, then A has to be the truth, right? Now we see what people without industry agendas think, the man-in-the-street for the first time has a voice that can actually be heard- not quoted or impressioned. However, now we have the US attempting to stifle Net Neutrality, Putin outlawing VPN in Russia from November and the UK recently introduced the most intrusive data laws in global history- so bad even China is copying them almost verbiage to include them in Chinese law. Still much to do, I think!

Enlightening, thank you for responding.

True. There is also a tonnn of fake news circulating the internet that's increasingly being presented as truth only to be debunked later on. But the damage is already done in those cases and people don't care.

Careful using all them buzzwords in one sentence. You almost sound like a news headline hehe.

It's true though. There are a lot of "articles" online that are completely fictional

then push for better education.

push for better schools.

push for critical thinking people.

push for learning how to cite sources properly.

push for learning how to verify sources properly.

push for educating a smarter future.

this technology does nothing if whatever is blasted across these media waves is sourceless/factless bullshit. but that's the problem most of the noise is and people believe it because of a bias filled and worded headline. because maybe their education sucked? it had to right? because how else are they unable to verify sources? how else are the unable to figure out what is fake news vs real news?

I want everyone to be smarter, I want everyone to get a better education and a better understanding of the world.

real change and real progress starts in the fucking classroom with our children but nobody seems to give a shit about that.

You know what's freaky? The Texas Republican party actually had a plank in their party platform specifically opposing the teaching of critical thinking skills.

Let that sink in; they are insane.

https://www.austinchronicle.com/daily/news/2012-08-18/half-true-what-politifact-got-wrong-about-the-gop-and-critical-thinking/

God forbid schools teach children that their parents are sometimes wrong!

man, I love it when younger generations question me. it means either I get to learn something or I get to teach someone something.

it's a flipping win either way. knowledge is good!

This may strike you as a "crazy" notion but they just used news and newspapers because people had a lot less choice to get news and info from, no internet...

Thats only cause you need to read more history.

...you just used technology to post this, and people are reading it and agreeing using technology.

All good points, but you listed things that are intrinsic and are essentially immutable.

Political position is not either of those things, and I would point out that the "But both parties are THE SAME!!1!" argument always seems to get a lot of play when the Republicans are in decline, never when they're ascendant.

Suspicious, that. It's almost as if someone wants to keep you from changing party identity.

Actually there is more psych evidence these days that the vast majority of people's political affiliation is defined by their temperament rather than rational though, and temperament is largely genetic.

Political position is not either of those things, and I would point out that the "But both parties are THE SAME!!1!" argument always seems to get a lot of play when the Republicans are in decline, never when they're ascendant.

Anyone with eyes open can see that both parties are part of the same control mechanism and neither is for the people. It has nothing to do with either party, both parties are only there to give an illusion of choice and to divide the people into two camps (that fight against each) that are essentially the same.

Trying to break people into the left vs. right paradigm brings out the shills more than almost anything else.

Left wing and right wing are just parts of same bird. Shoot bird, have supper.

It's even funnier as a a foreigner, watching your extreme right nutcase party argue with your fairly far right nutcase party.

Even those terms are designed to distract you. There is no "right" or "left."

For example, what does being opposed to abortion at a certain stage have to do with interventionist foreign policy or tax rates?

Nothing. They're separate issues, that should be analyzed separately. But a political party is volunteering to think for your on those issues.

Truth.

I think almost half the country is independent now? Post-internet society is waking up to this. Change in the two party system will lag behind that, but the change is coming nonetheless.

40% independent registered vs around 25% for dem and republican

And the vast majority of those 40% registered "independents" just don't know whether they'll pick column A or column B, yet, or don't like being labeled one thing or the other.

Always column "C"

that's got more to do with the Republican party being rebranded as the de-facto christian religion party.

what's scariest to me in this country is the mass grassroots support for religious law governing this country. Christian Sharia law if you will.

the abortion issue is interesting because it's two separate arguments. one side is saying "let these women choose"

the other side is saying "this is literal murder"

one is arguing that a woman should choose for herself what she does with her embryo, the other is saying that it is murder.

which is right? i'm not here to argue that.

The democratic party has aligned itself with the "choice" and the republican party has aligned itself with "murder"

so sure, what does foreign policy and tax rates have to do with abortion? nothing.

so in the eyes of that type of voter it mostly goes like this.

there's two choices in most election and one side sides with my faith in that YES THIS IS MURDER.

well murder is the highest crime in the bible, so while yes, it doesn't mean shit for foreign policy, tax rates, environment, grabbing a woman by the pussy. it's still murder and the other side is okay with murder and the republican party is not okay with murder.

so it doesn't matter that said party is fucking you every other which way, they are "people of faith" because they don't want these murders to continue. so you vote for them even if it is economically against your own best interests. because you are a person of faith, you fear god, you believe in god and your time on this planet is short and you want your best shot into heaven.

so you don't give a shit about all other things, because people are murdering babies and this candidate says that murder is wrong.

The sad part is the complete lack of pragmatism on the part of conservatives.

By outlawing abortion, you are condemning some women to backalley coat-hanger abortions. Even worse, many conservatives would be quick to blame the woman getting the abortion by assuming she was an irresponsible whore. Women are going to get abortions if they're legal or not, may as well minimize any potential negative impact as best we can.

I personally abhor the thought of abortion but want it available for anyone that wants it. How I feel emotionally about something shouldn't weigh that strongly on law and public policy.

I like to say I'm both pro-life and pro-choice - is that even allowed?

Yep. I feel the same way. One the one hand... it is a form of murder. It's ending a life, even if preemptively. On the other hand, some people are legitimately not cut out for having children, and they know it, and they will get that abortion whether it's legal or not. I've heard too many horror stories of mothers that take a bunch of drugs or throw themselves onto the ground belly-first in an attempt to cause a miscarriage.

I'm not pro-abortion but I'm definitely anti-ban.

By your description you're clearly pro-choice.

No one is "pro-abortion".

not true. a former housemate of mine believed that, and i quote, "all women should have at least one abortion in order to embrace that aspect of them which is kali."

note that i'm not claiming she's a representative example.

By outlawing abortion, you are condemning some women to backalley coat-hanger abortions.

how many?

Women are going to get abortions if they're legal or not

do you think that abortion's legality (let alone the fact that it is considered the very essence of "women's reproductive health") might increase the number of abortions?

well murder is the highest crime in the bible

No it isn't. Heresy is. Murder is like... 6.

well duh, that's for better business.

Well, historically, left versus right has been about economic politics and what type of taxation and services we support. Getting abortion and identity politics in there has muddied the waters a bit, but it's not like the terms don't have any meaning.

Now both parties are fine with taxes as long as the burden is on the middle class and it goes towards war instead of infrastructure or something people actually need

but it's not like the terms don't have any meaning.

People from both parties meet behind closed doors in "policy groups" where they actually decide what they're going to do.

And sadly one party will vote for just about anyone with the excuse "won't someone think of the children!?"

It's mind boggling watching Bible thumpers vote for Trump, he is so far removed from Christ it's not even funny.

Dat abortion policy tho...

Well, economically both parties are very right wing, the Republicans more so (maybe 9.95 out of 10 vs 9 out of 10), but there is no left wing in America (at least not with a major party). On social issues the Republicans are backwards regressive psychos, and the democrats are pandering fools who get completely lost in the idea of equality that they completely miss the point/reality of most situations.

You got it backwards. Both parties are clearly leftist. They both favor bigger government, more wars, less freedoms etc.

You are not describing leftism, you are describing authoritarianism which you are right that both parties are very strongly in that direction.

Isn't that the same thing?

Authoritarian is opposite libertarian.

Left opposite right.

So no it's not. They are on a different axis (x, y)

No, there are left-libertarians (Greens, anarchists, etc.). By your metric, feudalism would be a left-wing ideology, which is idiotic, because "left-wing" originated during the French Revolutions as a term to describe those opposed to monarchism.

Go away lib'ral

(People think I'm fairly right wing, in my country. To you, I guess I'd be a raving socialist with an odd distaste for gun control)

Where are you from, and how fucked do you think the USA is? Lol

No, just mocking the ignorant.

"Everyone not as left wing as I am is right wing"

and the false equivalencies... don't forget the false equivalencies!

Funny enough you'd have been called a shill for making a post like OPs 12 months ago. And your comment would be removed by a bot for using the word "shill". Reddit is just a guilty of not just drawing these lines but putting barriers between them making them difficult to cross.

Class conflict

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_conflict

Tauren vs Night elf.

dayman/nightman

shit just got real

AWWWWAAAAAGHHHAAAAAAAAAHHHH!Enemy of the Nightman,...AWWWWWAAAAAAAGHHAAAAAHHHH!!!!

They took you Nightman and you don't belong to them.

The Nightman Cometh.

Toll troll/boy's hole

Thats SOUL, you fucking bald headed, warthog faced heathen.

Also, I am a four star man. The Silver God, if you will.

This guys bird never quits

Ooo, eech, alright this is messy... https://youtu.be/r63a8UyeLYM

I think the problem here is that your body quit. Your bird quit. And, unfortunately, it's no longer legit.

I sir am I FIVE star man!

I am the Golden God, you blasted heathen! I shall make the oceans swallow you whole with the force of a 1000 winds!

Fat mac/normal mac Mac/country mac

Sane person/ conspiracy nut

RIP Fat Mac and Country Mac.

Mac and Cheese?

/Norm Macdonald.

Bloods vs Crips

Raiders vs Broncos
Ford vs Chevy
Herbivores vs Carnivores
Coke vs Pepsi

fuk u this one's real

Also the Troll Toll seems more relevant than ever these days

Clean winner right here. +1

Definitely better to be a night elf

Cow says what?

What?

Night Hawk Vs Dragon

To be fair night elves are kinda faggy

horde scum, FOR THE ALLIANCE

FOR THRALL!

Aldimeri Dominion vs the world.

I for one will not stand for this Night Elf aggression, no sir! I'm just a simple shaman, what I do with my sheep and my troll tusks is MY business...

The MSM tried to exploit young vs old by blaming boomers for sticking around too long instead of giving up their jobs to millenials

It's all of the above, and more. I can't get into it otherwise I risk losing my job.

People that want civil rights for minorities, and those that don't.

Folks that want there insurance money to go towards rich people's yachts, and that don't.

Poor vs middle class

FTFY

countries too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

Divide and rule. Reliably enabling the few to control the many since before Jesus was born.

a media backed by powerful interests whose dominion over our sullen species spans backwards into history for centuries.

Coca-Cola vs Pepsi

Nvidia vs AMD

Mexican restaurant vs Italian restaurant.

Pineapple on pizza vs no pineapple on pizza.

Sportsball game vs romcom night.

it's almost as if people just fucking argue about shit.

poor vs rich (not elite rich, just upper class)

Why not the elite rich? Is the poor vs. the elite rich a legitimate grievance for you?

For me, the political, racial and gender divisions are thrown around to distract people from the poor vs. rich issue.

The media is easier to influence than the government. It's also a quicker path to the people. FUCK what do we do?

But see....They are not really good people for the simple truth that they have a political agenda.

Damn i want to get into politics to help out my fellow countrymen, guess I'm a bad person /s

NEOlib Democrats and NEOcon Republicans are far right authoritarians. There's no dominant left wing in America (Bernie got rigged against). But anyway, labels can be deceptive so it's better to just use common sense on each policy rather than worrying about "does this fit MY IDEOLOGY" (lol) Better to be independent thinkers than take talking points seriously.

There's a comment here saying avoid class warfare and I agree if you mean super poor VS working class VS middle class VS upper middle class. We're all in the same boat, but the ruling class are fucking us over, but mostly the corporations and (elite level) bankers who control most things.

Unite against the elite bankers, my friends.

Peaceful revolution is not possible.

Not believing in peaceful revolution or striving for peace is part of the problem.

You would peacefully get controlled and killed when it suited the powers that be...

Bullshit, the desire to be peaceful (re: passive) and just ignorantly live a consumerist lifestyle is what has us in our current position. The problem is nobody gets mad anymore, yet the world is mad. We tolerate shit that is entirely unacceptable. But, we've been incrementally feminized and pacified like domesticated livestock.

We are almost literally now sheep in a pen.

Seems like people are getting more mad not less... granted it's often directed at each other... or civil servants... or foreigners/foreign powers.

I have to wonder how old you are or if you've ever been to war or in a serious conflict. Self-defense is one thing, killing for the sake of ideology is another. Peace does not equate to passivity. Violence begets violence.

I have to wonder how old you are or if you've ever been to war or in a serious conflict. Self-defense is one thing, killing for the sake of ideology is another. Peace does not equate to passivity. Violence begets violence.

Old enough and young enough.

I bet you're 25.

And what would you say about the peaceful revolutions in the Philippines and Germany in the 1980s?

War is peace.

On the other hand, literally bloody controlled false "revolutions" are the result of violence. I'm not saying to let the elite step all over us, (you have to fight back if they're going to pull the trigger on you) but violence is a trap in my opinion. Don't be the first to raise your fists or gun. Last resort for freedom.

Many revolutions have been compromized. Protests compromized and turned violent, thus character assassination for those involved "see it's those violent youths!" and other crap. As well as people getting hurt of course. :/ To go on a "let's hang the bankers" killing spree would be immoral, overkill, unjust and let's not forget the Dark Knight scene where Joker's goons made innocent people look like murderer clowns. "Hey let's snipe them all, they're sitting ducks!....No! They're civilians, look at their hands taped with a pistol!"

An (elite level) banker would kill dozens of low/mid level and fairly innocent people before any "for the people" swat teams get to them. It's seriously a bad move because it's difficult to pull off without getting innocent people killed. We have to reform the government and justice system. Destroy the two party system. Make those in washington powerless as they see the people awake and not willing to comply, the system stops to a halt which doesn't really serve the slavery obsessed elite bankers.

The absolute absolute best route is to wake up 300 million people in America (non-Americans can also do the same with their respective countries) with the truth. We the people will demand an independent and ending of the FED and debt based banking system. Violent revolution has often diverted back to oligarch control because who's best at playing dirty and causing a bloody mess? Psychopaths. Well that's just my simplistic view of things anyway. Violence should be an absolute last resort. Make the people see what a corrupt government the colluding dem/repub system is. The fake news meme dented the corporate media, the anti-Bernie lies from the media made a massive dent, pro-hillary lies, another massive dent (Bernie and Trump fans mostly hate Clinton).

There are still lots of nooby normies who think Democrats are good and repubs are corrupt when they're both corrupt almost entirely, so we just have to drop this normalcy of "the govmint will protect me, but screw u homophobic repubs!" These half red pilled people need to wake up. The idiots will take the longest to come round but the smarter sleeping people will wake up with enough evidence, then they'll talk with their friend circles and the truth spreads. Corporate media is on a fast road to hell (dying), and people are losing faith in Trump and already millions lost faith in Democrats, therefore it would be unwise to start going into this fight guns blazing. We are sort of, starting to win. We just have to put our win on steroids. Campaigning with well thought out memes, YouTube videos, anything that shows "NO, conspiracy theories are not all crazy WAKE UP see evidence inside" type stuff or "see I told you Trump/repubs and Clinton/democrats were corrupt from at least 30 years ago, we have to take them down".

My suggestion is a centrist (just slightly to the right of Bernie) independent with lots of security and coverage, a competing channel against corporate media, online channels that cannot be compromized, anonymous presenters, documentaries telling the truth about the establishment without overly dramatic music, online campaigns on social media, etc.

Even without that prep, the biggest hurdle to freedom is finding a way to wake up the people. If even 3/4ths of voting Americans knew about the two party scam and were sick of it, (and increased the number of people voting, as the % is disappointingly low) we could seriously crush the deceptive narrative of "you must vote either dem or repub".

Just my opinion but I think it's the best course of action. EDIT: also, another way to reduce bloodshed, is to expose the fact elites sometimes bankroll violence in protests, thus changing peoples' attitudes naturally. And of course, the more police and military that know the truth about the establishment, the less likely they'd attack an innocent citizen. Brainwashed police/military is a serious danger hence we need to redpill as much as possible.

We need an alliance of progressives and reasonable libertarians in ending the Drug War and rooting out corruption and the surveillance state. We don't have to agree on everything, but we need this coalition.

Thank you, reasonable voice. I'm center left and only slightly left libertarian (but sympathize with anarchists, etc.) so would prefer to see a center left independent like Jill Stein (assuming she's not controlled) but I would settle for centrist if it would make people meet me half way and start waking people up that right wing politicians have always failed the people because it serves the establishment (even conservativism is anti-worker, let alone NEOconservatives) especially as they both tend to be extremely authoritarian.

I absolutely agree with you, everyone who isn't an insane authoritarian ass kisser can come on board. Moderate libertarians I can tolerate fine, but the extreme type like Gary Johnson, Ron/Rand Paul, Laissez-faire bullshit, extreme right wing etc. isn't compatible because these people haven't explored enought to know it's a trap, a "liberty for the corps" type trap.

I know the political spectrum isn't a water right concept and sometimes inaccuracies pop up, as well as the U.S. being right wing-shifted (what's centrist in the U.S. is center left in Europe so we in the U.S. obviously fkd up big time lol) but as rough understanding, this seems like a reasonable alliance maybe: http://imgur.com/a/Ibp9S

Basically, anyone who doesn't want workers to be screwed over. I know it's a very simplified view, but the image sort of omits the most dangerous of maniacs and brainwashed people at least, which would make it a lot easier to agree on a centrist candidate. (Centrist in the U.S. is center right in Europe....but damn we have to start somewhere!!! lol)

Hey, I was off reddit for a few days, but I wanted to say thanks for this post, and you're right on! Hope you keep posting on conspiracy; people need to hear this perspective.

Thanks man, you too. I've been working on a fairly long visual presentation to show my political points in a simple "The Matrix" like conversation between Neo and Morpheus but I always feel like it's not convincing enough to the most brainwashed who irrationally worship conservativism or the extreme right libertarian "tax is theft" nonsense. I feel like I have to compile many angles to get people to drop their ideological mindset. It already takes 20-30 mins to watch the presentation comfortably, adding more would be ridiculous. Unless it was in parts or something. (But I don't know how to do that efficiently on Prezi).

Wow, we need more like you. Try to remember to PM me when you finish it.

Maybe hit YouTube too, not just reddit (I was just trying to talk political sense on YouTube, so it's on my mind- you need a thick skin.)

At least we can all agree that the west wing is fucked up right now!

Mankind has been dividing itself into groups since prehistory.

There are very real differences between the left and right with regards to domestic policy. If you look at outcomes of the different policies, it seems obvious to me that conservative policies further enrich the wealthiest and contribute to rising inequality, but I know that conservatives believe that liberal policies cause economic stagnation in the quixotic quest for a mythical equality.

How do you resolve this real difference?

There's nothing to resolve, except for that the parties mean nothing, and the cause of all economic issues are a result of TPTB and not us citizens or our political ideology.

Accept that people view things differently and do whats in your power to fight it democratically.

i was talking about this with a friend recently.

we agreed that a two party system in a majority-rules republic is the only possible outcome. the fact is that any number of "parties" or groups of citizens can produce a candidate; however, it will always boil down to the two candidates that represent the opposition of the issues at hand.

are you for the issues (candidate #1) or against the issues (candidate #2)? each candidate is for or against a number of different issues and they even agree on a couple.

the winning candidate is simply for the issues that the majority of americans are for.

I love how its night and day, post by post. Theres only 1 user I've tagged as suspicious in here, where as other posts of a more political nature will have 5-6 by now.

Right! It is now the child screwing, ritual child sacrificing dipshits versus the rest of us.

Left wing. Right wing. Same bird.

Deep Shit

Not really.

How is a belief that people are best off when the government leaves them alone, and a belief that government/community has a responsibility to strive for social democracy and equality via redistribution from the 'same bird'?

Corporate Democrats, corporate Republicans, largely the same bird. But leftists want to tax the super rich heavily and use the money for infrastructure projects and to help the poor. Right-wingers want to lower taxes on the rich, and the wealth will "trickle down" (laughter). Big difference.

Yup. All just fingers on the same hand.

America is fucked because people don't know that their "Left" has shimmied over to the right side of the spectrum ever since Bill Clinton. The Democratic Party is a staunch right-wing party.

America has 2 major parties: a right-wing liberal party that the CIA-controlled media misrepresents as "the Left" and a far right radical Christian fundamentalist party. That's why nothing ever gets done for the benefit of the people and communities.

This sounds exactly like what is going on. I just don't get how people are so blind to it.

Pretty much. Now the no-government/taxes right and the Dominionist right (both of which are riddled with deep state legacies, specifically Council for National Policy) have come into power at the same time, on the coattails of a lazy authoritarian billionaire reality show host with potent populist appeals. You have to drag the Democrats into even suggesting progressive policy despite all the neoliberal damage done.

That is nonsense.. There are serious differences between the sides

Yes. One is right-wing and loves minorities, the other is far right-wing and loves Jesus.

Doesn't Jesus love everyone though?

Everyone who agrees with me and isn't from somewhere else

Jesus loves everyone but Republicans only love Jesus.

The US has no left wing.

Except for the ACA that Democrats just spent almost a 2 term presidency working on, that directly benefits American people? Stop pretending that Republicans and Democrats are the same, or even close to each other in terms of evil.

The ACA fucks a lot of people. For example i pay more than i ever have and cant even afford to actually go to the doctor. Im just paying out the ass for insurance in case something terrible happens but other than that cant really get healthcare. ACA is only going to get worse. We need actual free market healthcare and insurance needs to be totally rethought.

The ACA was an improvement from the status quo but not enough. If the democrats really wanted to pass something to benefit the American people they would have pushed for single payer right then and there. Don't pretend like Democrats are not beholden to their big money donors just like Republicans.

We were never going to be able to get single payer right away. The ACA was a good intermediary step that set up for future improvements like single payer.

And the ACA is very obviously making it incredibly difficult to pass a healthcare bill that doesn't simplify down to "Everyone has healthcare". It raised the bar as to what an acceptable healthcare policy is.

ACA isn't perfect, but it very obviously puts Republicans between a rock and a hard place. They campaigned on repealing it for seven years, but they know now that if they do it without covering everyone, they're fucking themselves.

7 years? Um, how long do you think the ACA has been in place? I suggest you go do some research.

"signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 23, 2010"

Sounds like 7 years to me. Unless literally hundreds of search results for 'affordable care act' are lying.

The ACA's major provisions came into force in 2014

They didn't wait for it to do anything for them to start campaigning on replacing it.

Here's an ad from the Republican that ran for my State's Senate in 2020. In it, he explicitly mentions discontent with Obama's direction and one of his main points is to "repeal Healthcare". The ad is 30 seconds, so not a long watch.

As /u/a_wild_fusa_appeared mentioned, ACA was signed into law in March of 2010. The ad I linked is from April of 2010.

Like I said in my other comment, they didn't wait for it to be active.

As does mine

Your statement doesn't do anything. It's irrelevant because how long the ACA has been active has nothing to do with what I said. I said they campaigned on repealing it for 7 years. Whether it's been active for 7 years, 3 years, or half an hour is irrelevant to the fact that they've been campaigning on repealing it for 7 years.

cool story

You're regurgitating exactly what they have told you.

Do you not see the irony, given the title of this post?

It truly is unbelievable.

Because it's true. It's obvious if you pay any attention to politics that single payer is currently not viable. It's not regurgitating information to realize the sky is blue just because democrats said it.

FYI, you want to look at narratives being pushed, look at the whole "both parties are the same". Who do you think is benefitting from that?

Who do you think is benefiting from the narrative that both parties are not the same?

the american ppl who benefit from Dem's social policies?

The dems. Isn't that interesting?

You and those upvoting you are uneducated on what you are discussing. The healthcare industry is 1/6 of the entire American economy. You can't just go from one type of healthcare economy to another over night, too many lives would be devestated. Look at the specifics involved and this becomes obvious. Think for yourself. If you aren't familiar with the specifics stop making uninformed assumptions.

My post had nothing to do with the ACA. The irony i was speaking of was the person I replied to brought up partisan politics in a thread condemning them.

ACA doesn't benefit many people at all. It hurts more than it helps

Neither of them are evil. That would be a pretty loose definition of evil.

>that directly benefits American people?

lel.

Keep slurping up that DNC fluoride.

"Except for the ACA that Democrats just spent almost a 2 term presidency working on, that directly benefits the American people fucks over the middle class, creating an almost impenetrable barrier for anyone of limited means to improve their lives, and ensuring millions see medical bills rise to more than they can afford, adding to the number of families in poverty ? Stop pretending that Republicans and Democrats are the same, or even close to each other in terms of evil."

There. Fixed that for you.

Yep

And another 3 week old communist account.

That's why nothing ever gets done for the benefit of the people and communities.

I have no problem when nothing gets done. It's when they actually do shit that causes the real problems.

"Everyone not as left wing as I am is right wing"

Same shit spewed every day.

The real battle is between authoritarian (top) and libertarian (bottom), rather than left and right.

It's actually an x-y axis of capitalism to socialism and totalitarian to libertarian. I generally fall within the social libertarian range myself.

Capitalism is libertarianism and vice versa. Freedom, liberty is the underpinning for both. Socialism requires the use of force, and is the direction all governments (all authoritarians) drift.

Capitalism is simply an economic system based upon rents, in the same way that feudalism was based upon tribute, and slavery was built upon pure coercion.

The point of socialism is "from each according to ability, to each according to contribution." It's not about the government controlling everything, it's about the workers and laborers removing the bosses and middle managers and living out business themselves.

I dont understand that language. Based upon rents?

I hire my friend to work on a home I want to flip. Is that against the rules? I'm the boss so thats bad right? In your system she and I are both forced out of a job? Because in capitalism and libertarianism, the nature of the relationship being voluntary (and not initiating to aggression) is all that matters.

There's a difference between entrepreneurship and being hired to work for a wage. Entrepreneurs have control over their own hours and working conditions, while wage workers do not.

Additionally, it's disingenous to say that participation in capitalism is "voluntary" when the alternative is relying on others or starving to death. Most alternatives, such as farming unoccupied land or squatting, are either illegal or unfeasible today.

Wage workers have control over their hours and conditions. They can opt not to work somewhere that doesn't meet their criteria. It would be like saying "women have no control in marriage, they have to be in abusive relationships", no, they don't have to marry an abuser, they can just find a better guy.

As an anarchist, I agree that its wrong for the government to make illegal those traditional methods of acquiring property (squatting and homesteading).

If I say "eating this food is voluntary" and you say, no it's not because the alternative is dying, ok, we're not having much of a debate. My employee can work for me, work for someone else, convince someone to provide for her, or get charity. You can eat this food or that food or that food, it's voluntary. Yes, you need calories and resources to live, but that's a problem inherent to life, we can't make it go away. The most efficient and moral way to get those resources is freedom to trade.

Relying on others is a fine way to require resources, by the way, its what females of most species have to do during childbirth/rearing. And children and the elderly of course, they rely on others, no problem there. Plenty of people take vows of poverty, that's an option too. Or you can work for what you want. Seems like every option is on the table. If that's not voluntary, I dont know what is.

I do know that a world in which I'm not allowed to engage in free trade, which it sounds like your espousing, would necessitate using force against me, which would not be voluntary. Whereas in my ideal world, defined by anarcho-capitalism, you're more than welcome to practice what you like. You and your friends can start a commune and not use money in Ancapistan. Anarchism and capitalism are the systems defined by voluntary exchanges. Other political and economic systems rely on force.

What do you take me for? I'm an anarchist, too. Specifically, a mutualist.

Capitalism is not anarchistic, nor is it voluntary.

As I said before, capitalism is based upon rents on capital, such as machines or land. The only way to ensure that these rents end up paid is through force and coercion, such as a state.

The problem isn't the nature of individual choices, as in your example of abusive marriages. It's the necessity of making a choice in the first place.

It doesn't matter how nice individual husbands are if you're effectively forced to marry in the first place, which was more or less the case in feudal and early capitalist societies. (Thankfully, we've mostly moved past that barbarism.)

If you have to make a choice, the choice isn't voluntary. The American legal system, at least, does not recognize choices made under duress as voluntary, such as a signed contract or sexual consent given after some sort of threat.

In this case, the factor of duress is the implicit threat of starvation. In your theoretical Belgian Free State, there would be no social safety net to depend upon, and charity isn't always reliable.

Take this metaphor: if you were drowning in a lake, and anyone who could save you would force you to pay $20 for the service, could your payment truly be called voluntary? The alternative is death.

Additionally, homesteading and squatting are moot points with private property privileges. Without an occupancy-and-use standard, there's nothing to stop a few tycoons to scoop up all arable land on the planet, and without nations, there are no international waters or agreements to leave certain territories "free," such as the Moon, Antarctica, and outer space. (I am not arguing for nations, but simply against your ideology.)

In your "anarcho"-capitalist society, there are really only three "choices:" Work for a boss, break the law by squatting or homesteading in a world where all land is already owned, or die.

Side note: I don't oppose free trade. I simply find capitalists' definition of free trade deficient. There is no free trade when all ideas are patented, all land is enclosed, and all disobedience is illegal.

An anarcho-capitalist society would quickly fall into the trap of balancing a commitment to freedom with an ideological preference for the hierarchical state of society.

Without a state to enforce intellectual property, private property privileges, and anti-union laws, there would be nothing to impair a workers' movement, peaceful or not, from radically reshaping society. It helps that they have the numerical advantage, as well.

Either the capitalist would be forced to allow themselves to become horridly obsolete, betraying capitalism, or they would bring down the full power of authority upon striking workers and unionists, betraying anarchism.

Sorry for that long-winded rant, anyway. I hope you got something out of that.

I didn't get a whole lot out of it because I disagree with a central tenet. You say "The only way to ensure that these rents end up paid is through force and coercion, such as a state" and I would say you are forgetting ostracism, which is neither force nor coercion. If someone engages in fraud, you and your community stop trading with them (until they make restitution or whatever). You don't need a state, or force to enjoy private property and common law.

Before you say "ostracism is coercion", it's not. Not having sex with someone is not coercion, it's an entirely peaceful way of saying "no thanks".

About the "not-voluntary if the consequence is death" argument, I'm trying to point out that it's a straw man. The consequence of not eating is death. But it's still your choice to decide when, where, how much you eat. The consequence of not "working", meaning fighting entropy, is death. This is as true for a little crab on the beach as it is for man. You have to do actions to get things. It's just nature. It'd be like a hermit crab complaining that he lives a life of coercion because shells are scarce. That scarcity is a function of us living on earth.

By your definition, everyone all the time is in a state of coercion, because resources are scarce. The fact that I have to get out of bed to go pee is coercion, not voluntary, because if I don't do it, I'll die.

There are NOT only three choices (you said work for a boss, squat illegally, or die). I am an entrepreneur in a rather free market, I don't have a boss. My wife also doesn't have a boss, as we've agreed I should pay for her living expenses. My children also do not.

You say you're an anarchist, so I just ask if your system would allow for my type as mine allows for yours. You can be a mutualist, be a commie, in ancap world. Can I print money and trade freely in mutualist world?

If so, I would argue that I am enjoying a free market, where I'm freely trading capital, and would call that capitalism. If not, then you must be suggesting the use of force to stop me from free trade, right?

Sure, I wouldn't stop you. I just highly doubt anyone would willingly sacrifice their own working autonomy just to follow your orders, however. Being an equal partner generally is more appealing than being a subservient minion.

Furthermore, just because work is necessary for survival doesn't mean that the current form that work takes in today's society is necessary for survival.

Bosses paying their workers less than they're worth, people having to pay rents just to farm land, etc., are individuals and governments unfairly taking advantage of others needs to become more powerful, and I find that at least a little immoral.

People should at least have free land and resources to provide for basic subsistence without having to beg others for table scraps. That's what a commons is for.

Great! If your system doesn't stop me from enjoying a free market, and respects my private and personal property rights (in which I would be trading capital), then I would define it as anarcho-capitalist. And maybe we're dreaming of the same world with different names?

I would like to continue the convo though, you mention bosses paying workers less than their worth. I would like to ask you who defines that worth?

If I am happy to cut my neighbors grass for $5 an hour (I love my neighbor, and I'm already cutting mine anyway), who is to say whether or not he is paying me less than my worth? Isn't that completely up to me and my neighbor? If the relationship is consensual, and voluntary, what makes it immoral?

I would argue that the only immoral actor in that scenario would be a third party (currently the state, or maybe you?) saying "NO NO, you CAN'T hire him for that much, I will stop you from doing it, he's worth more!" Now that third party has used force to interfere in a consensual relationship. Currently minimum wage laws are doing this exactly.

But when you say "people should have free land and resources" that's when I know we're really on different pages. Resources aren't free, they require work. Land is scarce. Resources are scarce. If you want to give away yours "for free" to some people, I applaud you (I am charitable too). But when most folks say "X should be free! Healthcare should be free. Education should be free! Food should be free!" What they're saying is they support the forced transference of that property from one group to another, which again meets my definition of immoral. Food isn't free, somebody has to work for it. And land isn't free either, it generally requires work to be habitable. And even if you did steal it from me and give it to the homeless guy, I would hardly call that free.

I don't mean to insult you, but when I hear someone say "X should be free", it sounds juvenile. Remember, being a kid, didn't you say to yourself, like I did: "damnit why do they want money for candy, candy should be free!" And then you grow up a little bit and realize everything has a natural cost to it. For an anarchist, you sound exactly like a big-statist, because they too have the illusion that there's a wand that can be waved to make things free. The truth behind the illusion of course is that they're advocating violence and theft, and the destruction of private property and human rights.

The idea that everyone could enjoy free subsistence resources.. we're talking about feeding and clothing and housing 7 billion people? For free? No cost to anyone? Do the resources just rain from the sky? That's magic, that's heaven. I'd love to be a part of that too, but we're in the wrong universe!

Capitalism requires the use of force to enforce private ownership of businesses and to enforce wage slavery by criminalizing attributes that poor people have and removing safety nets. Coercion is not voluntary.

You didn't respond to my example of my business relationship. Would you consider it coercive?

I think your definition of capitalism is different from mine. Mine just means freedom to trade. Free trade is voluntary and not coercive, do you agree?

Couple of preschool kids, one gives a handful of cheerios to the other for his blue crayon. They can do that because they had private ownership over their property. Are you saying there's force or coercion involved there?

It's a spectrum, not a side.

Like autism

And gender!

Bill Nye

A very wide spectrum at that.

Also, a vote is just a vote. A vote does not have to mean that a person likes, supports, believes in, or cares about whoever they voted for in anyway. Making such an assumption is stupid.

Exactly. Like a campaign is strategy, so is voting.

You're right. It's the people vs. the deep state, and Trump is heroically championing all the people, left and right.

How? Seriously what has ue done thats so great?

Pissed everyone sane off and showed how useless the office of president is

Haha. I guess, kinda...

Ya boy is a dirty Zionist

Join the "Broken Wing"......... Lack of iron and/or sleeping.

You can say there is no difference, but the left wants to disarm me.

Liberals want to disarm you. Real leftists and marxists want their guns in order to overthrow the system. Try joining a real movement

What happens when the system is overthrown and the Marxists are in control?

You mean worker's councils? That means we have a democratically controlled economy, that's good thing. The problem is when every capitalist super power is attacking said socialist country and forcing them into a destabilized autocratic state. But that's no reason to give up. Obviously capitalism is the problem, and we need to overthrow it so socialist countries can have a chance to thrive. It's a fact that when corrected for equal economic development, socialist countries have a higher quality of life

Yeah no, what really happens is the commie faggots take the guns away

Very simplistic view of history. You clearly don't read books. Also, your insistent pestering of my Reddit history comments could not be more beta. Get a life dude. You are the human equivalent if a mosquito.

TIL that reading history exactly as it happened is a "very simplistic view of history"

I may be a mosquito but at least I'm not a lanky worthless piece of degemerate commie scum.

u still here?

One side as demonstrated a proclivity to sink waaaay lower than the other.

I don't buy that "both sides are the same" horseshit for one second.

And people on the left think you're talking about the right and people on the right think you're talking about the left.

Congratulations, you've played yourself.

Name one piece of good-natured legislation the right have pushed for in the last 7 years.

Name one time Republicans didn't overwhelmingly vote on the side of corporate interests.

Not even close.

good-natured legislation

LOL

Both are in power, generally wealthy, want to stay in power, will probably do whatever it takes to stay in power or control...they have things in common and the issues we quibble over are laughable to those at the "top" because deep down they probably dont give a fuck about the major issues for each side.

One side actively attempts to stifle voter rights, gerrymanders districts, consistently votes on the side of corporate interests, consistently uses objectively false conspiracy bullshit to muddy the waters, and consistently placates the most militant, zealous, and gullible among us...

Arguing that the right is even on equal footing right now is utterly ridiculous. I don't care if it sounds partisan. We keep hand-holding the yokels and turning a blind eye to straight-up constant disinformation from the right, and it's fuckin' killing us.

We have idiots that were worried about black helicopters and FEMA camps during Obama, but nepotism, conflicts of interest, and very real attacks on our checks and balances and national security is a big "nothing burger."

Fuck that. Try again

You may wanna look at your list and see how many examples you can apply to the left, seriously be mindful of your bias while you do it... that to me is the truly hard part.

Off the top of my head, Republicans have consistently voted:

• Against net neutrality.
• Against renewable energy.
• Against raising the minimum wage.
• Against ending the "War on drugs."
• Against ending the "War on terror."
• Against overturning Citizen's United.
• Against expanding/improving our healthcare system and lowering pharmaceutical costs.
• Against expanding healthcare for 9/11 First Responders, the elderly/disabled, and veterans.
• Against abolishing creationism and abstinence-based sex ed in schools.
• Against student loan forgiveness.
• Against ending corporate tax loopholes, or re-instating Glass-Steagall.

But muh SJW and they're safe spaces! They're the real villains!

•Against renewable energy.

I'm not aware of them ever voting "against renewable energy". I have seen them vote against unrealistic mandates and stifling regulations.

•Against raising the minimum wage.

Want to grind the economy to a halt? Pay those with no skills far more than they are worth. Those who have skills will then demand more, to bring the water back to level.

•Against expanding/improving our healthcare system and lowering pharmaceutical costs.

How has forcing the producers of society to pay for the healthcare of the non productive improved anything?

Want to lower pharmaceutical costs? Pass those costs on to all of the nations who don't currently pay for the R&D that the US is picking up the tab for.

•Against abolishing creationism

Where is this actually being taught? My kids are in a Catholic school and they are taught evolution.

•Against student loan forgiveness.

Why should loans you willing took out be forgiven? It's no societies fault that you didn't get the job you wanted or chose to study in a field where a Ph.D. has become the minimum requisite degree for employability. You delusionally believe that we're supposed to be able to make a living doing something we like doing.

I like how three of your bullets disagree on a fundamental level with the person you're responding to, yet the point of this post is that the sides are the same.

Both sides are most definitely NOT the same.

Lemme guess... Leftists are the problem, SJWs are literally running rampant on the streets, something something Islam is scary, and the invisible hand of the free market solves everything.

How close am I? Am I enlightened yet?

Want to grind the economy to a halt? Pay those with no skills far more than they are worth. Those who have skills will then demand more, to bring the water back to level.

How about people being able to live off of minimum wage, even people with "no skills" as you so put it deserve to be able to survive.

Minimum wage jobs exist to help you acquire the skills to get a better paying job.

Yet people get stuck in them for one reason or another and can't afford to feed themself/their kids/pay bills/etc. Even people with skills can get stuck and without a better job opportunity, not everyone has that fortune.

That doesn't make it the taxpayer's responsibility. Moreover, if you can't afford to feed yourself, you shouldn't be having kids.

Either you completely lack any empathy or seriously have no clue what it is like to fall on hard times. Even someone with a good job who can afford to feed their family can fall into this situation. Should they just abandon their kids that they already have because they now can't afford them? And I disagree, it is our responsibility as fellow Americans to help our fellow countrymen.

That's why the welfare system and unemployment insurance exist as temporary safety nets.

It's too fucking bad your party is trying to stifle abortions then.

Not "my party". I'm a libertarian with conservative leanings.

Sure they are. Neither one gives a flying fuck about you.

It's why nothing has changed in decades.

The people that say shit like this are almost universally the ones who have no clue what's going on in general, and constantly parrot the same edgy platitudes.

Can you give an example? Legislation? What hasn't changed in 20 years?

What hasn't changed? The fact that our election process is a circus every year for one thing. It's basically a show for the masses, and we've been caught in this "lesser of two evils" mentality for decades.

We get poorer and the rich continue to move up the ladder. If either party truly gave even a single fuck about us, there'd be some kind of balance instead of a massive gap in wealth, and we wouldn't even need to debate health care.

The fact that our election process is a complete media circus for one thing.

Elections have been a shitshow since the days of the Founding Fathers.

We get poorer and the rich continue to move up the ladder. If either party truly gave even a single fuck about us, there'd be some kind of balance instead of a massive gap in wealth, and we wouldn't even need to debate health care.

Again. Only one side is trying to keeping it a 'debate.' Only one side votes unanimously against repealing Citizen's United, or re-instating Glass-Steagall, or raising the minimum wage.

The right have been pushing this "both sides are the same" bullshit since 2008, and it's working, apparently.

People still believe this, while ignoring mountains of evidence that this is objectively false, and only holds weight at the most superficial level of political discourse.

I'm not on either side, homie. It's all bullshit. Picking a side won't help you one little bit.

As much as it hurts me to say it, Trump was right about the deep state thing. Both parties work for the deep state, and it keeps the masses distracted from what's really going on. You have no idea how deep the rabbit hole is.

Everyone argues about which side is correct, while ignoring the fact that we're getting continuously screwed over. Their job is to keep you distracted, and it's clearly working.

You can't even articulate who "they" are without going into cryptic token conspiracy soundbites.

You can't say nothing is effective when you actively choose not to pay attention or participate. Must be nice to write everything off as "another ruse by the deep state" instead of following what happens, and extrapolating a valid opinion.

You're just assuming I'm not paying attention to what's being done? Choosing not to participate is one thing, but willful ignorance is quite another, and I resent the insinuation. It's not a conspiracy, and who the hell is taking Alex Jones seriously? I figured this out on my own, well before I'd ever seen any of his conspiracy riddled nonsense. He's a joke who convinces people that they're 'woke'.

Maybe, just maybe, you should take a good look at how America is actually run. Maybe you should also realize most of the media is incredibly biased. Politicians answer to bankers and corporations.

If all of this was out in the open, we wouldn't need to have this discussion, now would we?

I'm not on either side, homie. It's all bullshit. Picking a side won't help you one little bit.

This is demonstrably false. Voting on legislation is a thing. Whether you want to accept it or not, you have some fucking agency, however miniscule, over who gets in and who gets the boot. You can look at behavior, and decide if you're willing to be complicit or facilitate change.

Maybe, just maybe, you should take a good look at how America is actually run. Maybe you should also realize most of the media is incredibly biased. Politicians answer to bankers and corporations.

1. Media has its inherent biases, obviously. Demographics are a thing. Also, media literacy needs to be a thing. Too many people are fuckin' incapable of making the distinction between verifiable info, and unsourced, facebook-tier horseshit.
2. America is run by corporate interests. On that, pretty much any rational person with a cursory understanding of reality knows this shit. Pray tell, which party seems to always vote unanimously in their favor? Which party always seems to invoke God, cataclysm, imminent danger (distractions), whilst committing the most shady deals here and abroad (privatized military contracts, de-regulating banking institutions, lowering taxes for the elite class, stagnating wages on the lower castes, union busting, tax havens and re-patriation practices, revisionist history, dissolving separation of church and state, militarizing local police, voting against data encryption or open access to the web as a basic utility in this age... etc.)? One of these things is not like the other.

Yeah so fuck Clinton and Trump and Bernie and whoever else. Fuck em all!

yes fuck 'em all, you might miss a good one.

left vs right is there to keep us from thinking about up vs down.

Yes that's how it actually is!

Leftist politics is based on the idea of class conflict i.e. top v bottom. What are you on about?

It seems like a lot of these commentors have absolutely no idea what a modern or even a classic leftist position is. They mostly seem to be believing in the strawman of liberals that conservatives create - ie SJWs, globalists, corporate media, etc.

Most people here seem to follow an alt-right, or libertarian belief system. They just want to say all established political view points are evil to legitimise how bizarre their own views are.

Just a friendly reminder that there are forces at work who want to flood Western Europe with Africans, destroy the concept of marriage, deliberately confuse our children’s sexuality and actively demonize white men.

True, i don’t care if these people are called left wing, anarchists, globalists... but i will fight them to protect my children’s future till i die.

they are called zionists

this^

anarchists

Propaganda is strong with this one

They are called lemming Redditors too

Just a friendly reminder there are lots of people who never get laid. Like this guy above me here.

lol

They are called cultural marxists

Wew lad

You're an idiot

I'm surprised this rose to the top. Whenever I ever mention what OP said here, instant downvotes almost always.

The point many of us are desperately trying to make.

Until the elite's stranglehold on our government is ended, everything is pretty much theatrics, the lower and middle classes will continue to see our wealth and influence dwindle while the ultra rich will continue to grow stronger.

What a crock of shit. The rich will always be part of government; governments came about in the first place catering for rich kings and emperors. The ultra rich won't grow stronger.

While I agree politicians could care less what side they are on and vast majority are just rotten with corruption. I do see "left" and "right" views in issues. Most people sway left/right per issue. Some people will sway one way on vast majority of issues and to me they are left/right wingers.

I also believe a lot of extreme views are mislabeled on both sides. My father is as right wing as any even has a picture of Reagan in his ol home office(plus....his exwife is retired air traffic controller) but like 99% of right leaning people I know, he has no issues with gays at all. My more left wing friends aren't opposed to voter ID and think PC has gone too far

I can't imagine that political/philosophic/societal/and legal spectrum that creates "left" and "right" is just a sham. Racism is a fool's argument, for example. But what you choose to believe and how to act in this life is about as clear and truthful of a difference we have as a society.

We should seemingly have some united concerns.. but again.. those aren't seen the same by everybody.

The core of politics is the disagreements people have regarding the role of their community. I will agree that the media and the parties themselves use these disagreements to their advantage .

However you cannot invalidate the very real differences in opinion people have regarding politics because each political view has a consequence that affects people's lives.

Divide and Conquer

Bird can't fly without both wings

Ive been seeing far fewer chemtrails lately

I don't think this counts as conspiracy as its generally agreed to be true. Not quite common knowledge, but close.

Bird can't fight the people vs. the deep state, and gender.

No. Two parties is the Mathematically Inevitable result of FIRST PAST THE POST.

Nah leftists are legit degenerate

There's an actual left that's not a Soros left and not a marxist left you know.

Aka centrist liberals

Aka centrist liberals

LMFAO LMFAO

...

LMFAO

Good job distancing yourselves from the cucks

LMFAO

You're an uneducated lowlife. Read marx and actually try to understand the world around you.

I'm a professional chemist. And you...?

Your knowledge of science doesn't concern me. Your lack of knowledge of history and politics is the problem. Trust me I know, I'm a former physicist. I used to think lefties were the problem too

LMFAO a former physicist who now works at a farmers market. Of course you are buddy. Of course you are

*Runs a farmer's market. Yes, I sought out a field where I can be my own boss. Keep up with the ad hominem though. Really makes you look smart

Oh because physicists are oh so unethical. LMFAO

Well I was working for the Navy so my application was unethical.

Yeah you're a cuck lmfaoooo

thank God you guys stickied this

I wanna see a race war but

There's no money to be made in peace.

You're right but you have no idea why any of this is taking place so it's pretty useless.

Your point is very US-centric, just because your main political parties are a joke it doesn't mean there is no benefit to terminology that helps define an attitude or point of view. Even if we all agree that there is no real distinction between the parties there is still a tangible difference between right and left wing policies.

Edgybrah

George Washington warned of the dangers of political factions to democratic republics throughout history. He was a strong non partisan.

Unconventional distinctions and similarities in political labels:

• Fascism is NOT the opposite of liberalism and has more similarities with it than people admit
• Nazism is not the same as Fascism, but it is a form of fascism. (Lowercase f)
• Liberalism is not the same as Fascism, but it is a form of fascism.
• US Liberals where fond of Mussolini in the 30's.
• Mussolini was not fond of Hitler's fascism.

So people should learn the definition of fascism, and while claiming to be the opposite of it, see if they are not fascist themselves.

I was actually thinking about this today. Left or right both sides just want what they think is best for the country, no? How can there be so much hate and derision when we have a common goal, we should be cooperating and making compromises. If they really wanted America to be great they'd be working togather towards that goal instead of working against each other to prevent it. I guess they'd rather rule over nothing than not have any power in a Utopia.

It's should be people vs the rothchilds and bildeberg

Funny how 49% / 51% votes are normal, but when someone gets 99% it's obviously corrupt.

Mob rule over unity.

It's useful if you're being very broad and casual in a discussion. But it's almost always better to discuss things issue by issue. Who cares if an idea is left or right? What matters is whether it's a good idea!

I'm left and don't agree with most people identifying themselves as left. Sometimes i agree with ppl on the right.

Most people on the left and right are just to blindly party patriotic to see that they are fighting over absolutely nothing.

Trump, Obama, Bush, Clinton are all the same fucking crap.

all the same crap

You mean presidents?

There is some research on the difference between the way left and right wing people think. And it is significant, affecting our empathy.

Look up Chris Mooney - The Republican Brain

That said, there is a lot of common ground and you're absolutely right that we should focus on our common enemy.

Its not a sham. Those on the left and those on the right have fundamentally different values and world views and the left has gone so far extreme into socialist/marxist/anti-west territory that our differences have become irreconcilable

You could say equally that the right has gone too far into authoritarianism and away from individual self-determination.

I see no sign of authoritarianism from the right, far from it lol. The essence of conservative 'right' wing ideology is small government and keeping it out of peoples lives, free and open markets, self-responsibility/individualism, and a respect for western values and tradition. That hasnt changed but since Trump is more lefty on government it has begun to shift folks on the right more towards the lefts worldview on the role of government as we see with the healthcare debate. More and more republicans now think its the governments job to provide healthcare to all as opposed to people being responsible and buying health insurance on a free and open market.

In Europe its leftism all the way down. They are all big government socialists with the only difference being whether they want open borders or stricter borders

The problem with both sides is that there are no actual practitioners in DC, they are all the Israel party. The ideology is real, but it's here and halfway on TV, but not in the backroom deals.

See no sign lololol

You are actually retarded. Read history and read some leftist literature instead of watching right wing youtube videos

There is not a single socialist country in europe.

"Wherever there is separation,there will be conflict" J.Krishnamurti

No it isnt.

It's funny because on the internet everyone fights everyone but in real life people seem more aligned.

Who saw the post rn on political humor? The one making fun of the federalist?? How many times has left leaning sites been posted here like that?? Case in point.

Sounds like Centrist propaganda to me.

Damn you, far-middle!

It always existed but when you add in variables like a higher standard of living coupled with wage stagnation..a governing body that doesn't listen to rationality what you breed is larger groups of people picking extremes in order to get their point across.

This is bunch of bullshit. You have your head firmly jammed up your ass.

The parties have SUBSTANTIAL DIFFERENCES - in healthcare, net-neutrality, support for schools, who gets to sit on the SCOTUS, taxation, environmental issues, civil rights and dozens of other things.

Saying they're the same just means you're a lazy insubstantial smart-ass who is useless in politics because you're so jaded you can't form an opinion. Go throw your vote in the toilet with Gary Johnson or Jill Stein. Maybe they'll kiss your ass enough. I'm not up for it.

Hhaha you really believe that don't you? It's only a substantial difference on TV and during election season.

Bush got us to invade Iraq. Would Gore have put us there? Not the same.

No but have you noticed how the Dems seem to be beating the war drums these days trying to escalate tension between USA and Russia?

I've never seen anyone anywhere advocate for open military confrontation with Russia.

The recent resolutions in Congress against Russia were totally bipartisan and veto-proof, so I don't think your point is valid.

And anyway, is it possible that Russia and Putin have been doing things that deserve some anger and action against them? I think so. They've never been our friends. Putin is not a democrat, and his country's corruption is well-documented. Don't be so quick to blame America for everything everywhere.

Starting a civil war is Syria is a serious provocation. Obama and Hil.

So every war in every part of the world is completely similar?

How many American ground-troops are in combat in Syria? Probably none. There are some advisers, otherwise it's been an air campaign. And anyway they've been fighting ISIS. You really want us to just let ISIS do it's thing there?

In Iraq we peaked at @ 165,000 in 2007 and were @ 150,000 for 6+ years, for a much weaker premise - nonexistent WMD's.

Not the same. Your point is invalid.

We have a couple of thousand that we admit to. But we're supporting factions that are anti Assad which inhibits his ability to fight Isis there.

and it's just a well known fact that Syria is sort of a pro-Russian presence in the area and messing with them is very likely to get Russia involved.

Not that Assad is great mind you, but I'd like to see generally more normalized relations with Russia and stability in the middle east.

There may be a lot of them there, I don't know, but as far as anyone knows they're not in the war zone.(except the pilots). You may not trust that, but trust is a whole other issue. I think the media would report it if we were on the ground.

And do you really think it's in our interests to be pushed around by Russia? It's an aggressive state, supporting a very bloody, evil situation there. Being pushed out is not a good trend. It sends a terrible message to all our other allies. I know it's a catch-22, but that's the human condition. Don't pretend you can escape it.

Being friendly with Putin is not worth much. They're not the good guys.

No I don't trust any of them.

And I don't trust that this country of 'good guys' is run by wise moral people. I think its run by greedy people who are very good at manufacturing the consent of better men to carry out their bidding.

OK. Putin's "manufactured consent" is somehow better? Why is that? You know that a whole bunch of journalists over there have been killed.. Doesn't that cause you some concern?

If you can't or won't trust any of the Western news sources- and there are many, all supposedly independent, then what is the point of talking to you about anything? You're 100% unreachable on everything and therefore useless.

The reason I (tentatively) trust the news sources is that there's So many of them. BBC, Bloomberg Al Jazeera, NPR, NBC, ABC, the WSJ, the NYT, The Atlantic, Mother Jones, Drudge, Salon, TalkingPointsMemo, Busfeed, Politico, Slate, and a hundred others.

If one of them were saying something substantially different then the other news-outlets would either pursue it to disprove it or corroborate it. They're in competition, which ultimately makes them somewhat honest. That's how it's supposed to work.

If you think it's all a gigantic - 500+ news-outlet conspiracy to fool you then I think that's not a supportable position. I don't see the world that way. Conspiracies do sometimes exist, but I don't believe that one does.

I think you should reconsider. You can be skeptical, but you run the risk of being so doubtful that you disconnect from reality.. and that's bad.

Thx

In the end you believe what you want to believe.

What about my points? Don't you think that multiple competing news-sources bends the curve toward accuracy and believability? If not, why not?

I don't think they compete. I think they parrot what they're told. What I see is you have one side catering to nationalists led by the drudge report and to a lesser extent fox news. If you listen to talk radio at all that's essentially what they do. they comment on the drudge report and fox news.

The left wing media pretty much follow the narrative of the new york times and cnn.

We now have a third option which is the Internet. And I feel that the same forces that control the main stream media are at work in the Internet flooding it with bullshit that people like you ad I have to sift through to find little nuggets of truth here and there.

But the whole thing is designed to make the average person, making a living and not having the time or money to actually travel around the world doing research, come to this conclusion:

"I guess I have to trust SOMEONE. I mean you can't just not trust ANY of it!"

But I'm not a good little boy to sit here and believe whatever talking points they spew out as truth. And yeah it sucks in a lot of ways. But I don't care. The first thing I always do when I see an incendiary headline is ask myself "who is trying to scare me or make me mad here and for what purpose?"

Ok. I guess I just disagree with you. So be it. Best of luck.

You too my friend. I appreciate the thoughtfulness and effort you put into staying informed. Wish more people did the same!

Actually that's the definition of self-delusion and garbage thinking.

You should believe things that are true, and which have evidence to back them up. You can believe anything you want if it's not true, but if you do that on important things then you're worse than useless. Stop being that way. Open your ears.

Yes Gore would have done it too. Gore is about as establishment as you can get.

How old are you?

Don't make me dig for a Rothschild Gore connection, I'll do it.

Even Tulsi Gabbard is controlled opposition. Nothing is as it seems.

Soros is just another billionaire political donor, 1/60th as large as the Koch foundation who give exclusively to Republicans.

Where's the evil anyway? Soros knowing the Clintons? Giving money to the Clintons or other candidates? That's legal. What evil thing exactly have they actually done to benefit him, other than know him? Why no court case? Why no criminal investigation? It's all paranoid garbage.

Stop watching Alex Jones. It's rotting your brain.

If you don't believe there's a NWO / Greater Israel / Messianic age conspiracy then I don't know what you're doing here. Fuck Zionist Alex Jones.

Soros vs. Koch bros.

The Koch brothers dwarf Soros's activity by a factor of 10 - 30, depending on the category. You're paranoia is misplaced. Follow the money.

What are you even arguing? Israel doesn't control US but rather large armerican corporations? Rothschild is more powerful than Koch, the money trail leads there.

TLDR: OP doesn't know the difference between republicans and democrats.

I used to believe that.

But this cycle brought out the vicious full retard violence from the left.

I no longer think they are the same.
Because "us" doesn't include "me" anymore when they got violent.

shut up and read a book

shut your book and open your own eyes.

and i give you the left. insult doesn't even make sense.

Oh yeah i wanna be on the same side as that. yup. mmm hmmm right. sure sure.

you're too far gone, that's what the gulag is for

Why are leftists so violent?

I apologize, this hasn't been updated in a few months. There's probably much more.

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Two wings, one bird, same shit.

Left wing and right wing are both working for the circle of people who live in the center of everything.

Keep most people from seeing it, or make it so they refuse to believe the reality... then keep them divided and conquered.

If I was going to make up a symbol for the concept, it might look something like this?

There is only one fight that matters. Communists vs. capitalists. We win every time!

The issue is capitalism.. all of these things are caused by capitalism.

I agree that elites play people against each-other but ideology does matter. I believe progressive policy is the best way to make a fair, sane and successful society and for that reason I am a pretty staunch liberal. I honestly believe the brand of conservative individualism (get mine and screw everyone else) that we see especially in the States is the wrong approach to making the aforementioned best society we can.

Liberal ideology informs my deeply held beliefs before we get anywhere near naming a politician of any kind.

ACA isn't free, and starts working together against the grain, even legally, you see small minorities of people like me.

Funnily enough I was thinking about this on a semi-unrelated topic last night. People were shitting on white males who get all pent up over the 'white males are responsible for everything bad' debate. I decided to challenge their post regarding this in order to try and see things from their side (not my own personal view bare in mind). Here's my reply to someone who had the maturity to challenge his own perspective:

I just like to try to see both sides of the coin. It's something society severely lacks and challenging our own perceptions or in the least, attempting to just understand someone's point (admittedly the hardest thing in the world when you 100% disagree) just goes a little way to developing a more united society. We're being torn down the middle by the powers that be and the only way to overcome that is to at least entertain someone elses view. I have my lines in the sand, but so long as someone is willing to hear me out then I'm happy to wipe that line out, if only for a moment.

• left and right wing segregation will slowly diminish as we give someone we don't agree with an ear. I believe the more we open ourselves up to others, in turn they will eventually do the same. On the other hand however, a part of me believes society is too far gone. This world has accepted control with open arms with way too many unwilling to budge on their views over the most trivial of matters. I hope that part of me is wrong, but more than this I fear that I'm right.

Left and right wing are exactly like religion the way I see it. People are always happy to subscribe themselves to a certain mindset or set of values instead of just thinking for themselves.

Actually, dividing political views between left and right is extremely wrong. And, yes, we should indeed fight people who oppose freedom.

Fight for your freedom every day

Putting politucs on any kind of spectrum is wrong.

How so?

It is arbitrary. Atleast with the left. Putting a political spectrum for only capitalism could be acceptable, ranging from radical socdems to ancaps.

Socialism is impossible to fit on a spectrum of that kind because it's a negation of capitalism, not an ideal of its own. And the spectrum is based on ideals.

To me, socialism fits really well on "low economical freedom", meaning you can't choose what to do with your earnings/capital/labor/life.

Yet you caould also make the reverse case. Lets make a comparison of the last things you listed.

Capitalism/earning: Your earnings are determined by your employer

Socialism/earning: Your earnings are based on the use value of your own production, meaning you can determine how hard you work and for what result.

Capitalism/Labor: your labor is commodified meaning the market determines your labor

Socialism/Labor: Your labor is free to be used however you like it, though the quantity of your labor determines what your recieved.

Capitalism/Life: Your life is threatened by money meaning your labor needs to be spent as commodities for other people.

Socialism/life: To all according to their needs.

Simplyfing the differences between capitalism and socialism to a spectrum makes it practically useless. As you can see, this kind of simplification makes it easy to call both sides economically libertarian/authoritarian.

One's earnings are not determined by the employer, neither by the use value of one's own production.

Your understanding of capitalism is wrong, and socialism is wrong in its roots, so that sentence it's also wrong.

Either way, I guess you truly believe in socialism and, for me, that's like explaining to an atheist something about God.

How is my understanding of socialism wrong?

Hook, line, and sinker this election cycle

So happy to see this!!!

Aren't the Kochs fighting for liberty?

and this post is just damage control by the same people

Anti-Zionism unites the far left and far right! Cmon people now, smile on your brother, everybody get together for America.

It's funny that you mention the Koch brothers as the bad guys when they bank roll a substantial portion of the libertarian movement which has for better or worse become aligned with the traditional 'right.'

What about the goddamn libertarians?

U r wrong wings are supposed to use their pace to help them cross it to the striker so he can score goals

Yup. A conspiracy isn't: "Trump collided with the Russians"

That is a sensational headline designed to distract us from the REAL conspiracies.

It's a class war and left versus right are the sides. If you're on the side of the lower class, you're a socialist, if you're on the side of the upper ruling classes you're a capitalist.

Are you trying to say that left and right wing ideology does not exist? Because that is not true. I would agree that both the democratic and republican parties mostly are shit but the left-right ideological spectrum is still real.

Yes, this has become painfully obvious in how they have got even this sub divided. Some people just cannot fathom the fact that Trump really is an outsider shaking things up by the roots.

They go to such mental gymnastics to explain away how 6 months of trump catches more pedos that 8 years of obama did.

Not really. Conservatism is superior.

Two wings on the same shit bird, Randy

all the while this sub is a right wing safe space.....

Divede and conquer.

You forgot about Rupert Murdoch.

https://np.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/6pc5qu/democrats_propose_rules_to_break_up_broadband/dkon8t4/

Left wing, right wing.... they've got the public so concentrated on the wings that they forget to ask who's piloting the plane.

/u/ohaioohio addresses the accusation that "both parties are pretty much the same" by listing Republican and Democrat voting records on numerous issues popular with reddit, eg Net Neutrality, money in politics etc

Yup.

This is the first thing I thought of when I saw OPs post.

The real difference between a republican and a democrat is voting records.

that is just a smoke screen, the dems turn into republicans consistently to give little advantages to their donors. they are gradually injecting more evil bills so people wont notice. then they make big deals out of issues people care about to make it seem like they are still helping the people(net neutrality)

dems turn into republicans consistently

what?

gradually injecting more evil bills so ppl wont notice

what?

look at the link

Damn that was eye opening, thanks for the link

The real enemy is not another user browsing this sub forum, it is people like the Koch brothers, Soros, the Guptja family (South Africa), and the Rothschilds. If you are not willing to look at a conspiracy because of a certain party, there's a good chance you're being biased.

100% correct. Some "news" channels are basically Rich people paying rich people to tell middle class people to blame poor people.

The Right doesn't care about the climate crisis, so I'm forced to oppose them. And let's be clear about what conservatism is. It's the conservation of a ruling class that dominates society.

You saw a lot of movement during the Obama years to take power from the ruling class did you?

And FYI there is a very good bit of evidence of data tampering and general suppression of dissenting views on global warming. When you look past the apocalyptic predictions it starts to look like trying to build manufactured consent for a world government with pretty much limitless power.

Obama is not a leftist. He's just to the left of the GOP.

Not by much in fact.

The right wing and left wing werent pushed on the people, the people created it. Humans have an innate need to connect to something bigger than themselves, and to feel like there is a true right and wrong in the world.

Politics dont create anything, they simply feed the public what they want for gold stara

This is just a word salad that means nothing. The fact is, we all have views on how to fix the situation- some believe in right wing individualist solutions, some believe in left wing collectivist solutions. Just because we stop using the term left and right doesn't mean we as a people don't drastically disagree on the way forward. It's okay to admit this difference and work through it rather than pretending it's not there. Sorry, left v right is not a conspiracy, it's a real thing, and one of them is correct. Read books and discuss

I stopped coming to this sub because it became a purely sham political sub instead of a conspiracy one.

Bad sources and stupid click bait fear monger omg from both sides.

Left wing, right wing. It's all the same aeroplane.

Preach brother.

people are the most divided into separate echochambers as ever. it's super fuckin freaky

I feel this way about every belief system ever invented outside of nihilism.

They're all just lies to make you think you or the universe is something that it is not, and they make you think that so they can manipulate you.

There is no god, no karma, no destiny, no point, no purpose, no good, no evil, no angels, no demons, no magic, no miracles.

There's just the universe decaying slowly into heat death. That's it. That's all.

Right.

But things matter to you and don't even pretend that's not true. So put your energy into those things and affecting them now and don't worry about making some kind of transcendent lasting improvement to humanity.

A lot of the people we look back on and remember became iconic one simple act at a time.

You want to give up and live in depression you can. Or you can figure out what and who you think are important and put your energy into those things and people.

TLDR: I find the fact that nothing matters in the end to be freeing and comforting.

Nihilism does not have to lead to depression, it can lead to pure freedom.

You see, no matter what I do the end result is the same. Kill a million people, heat death of the universe. Save a million, heat death. Succeed in business and love? Heat death. Fail. Heat death.

Every road leads to the same destination, so I am free to act as I choose. As long as I'm willing to deal with the consequences, I am completely free to do anything I want.

That's not depressing. That is very comforting.

Are you saying that there's no difference between a republican and a democrat? A liberal and a conservative?

My feeling is that cosmetically there is a difference. At local levels there's a difference but nationally...

It's all a drama. At the end of the day both sides might argue about gay marriage or what bathroom gender confused people ought to go to but they all quietly (or not so quietly) do the bidding of the bankers.

It doesn't seem like their narratives and votes reflect that

FYI, Left and Right does have meaning; it's just been butchered over the years. I'm on the Left, which means that I support economic policies that are in the interest of poor and working-class people, as opposed to the rich. I want a much higher minimum wage, good social services, higher taxation for the rich. That's what the term has historically meant.

The "identity politics" bullshit has complicated things. I'm anti-identity politics.

But I do try to bridge the gap between left and right with libertarians who are opposed to the drug war. In my opinion ending the drug war is the most important issue of our day, and we can get support for it from both left-progressives and right-libertarians, and it's imperative that this coalition continues to be built and ends the drug war. Ideally, a pro-freedom left-right coalition could work to end mass surveillance and reign in the unchecked power of the intelligence community as well.

There's a lot that leftists and reasonable right-wingers could come together on, but let's not pretend the terms don't have meaning.

No. The Right wing is just an extension of the business community, doing what they can to increase profit. You will never see a "left-wing person hoping to cut education, mistreat the environment, abuse Labor, reduce financial oversight, marginalize or persecute any type of minority or sexual orientation, etc etc

Relax. He wasn't talking about you and your friends.

He's talking about people like Hillary Clinton screaming about income inequality and wealth redistribution while being filthy fucking rich and cynically using her 'charitable foundation' to get even richer all the while doing the bidding of the CFR and Goldman Sachs.

Or those insufferable Hollywood types who live better than most royalty and go on and on about how unfair every god damned thing is.

You got it bad don't you lol. Hillary's foundation provides AIDS medication for millions of adults and 75% of the children affected with AIDS worldwide. If you're going off like Alex Jones about some lame conspiracy within the Clinton Foundation, you really have no idea what is going of. Hollywood types?? Lol how old are you? Perhaps you should go back to NASCAR or football or something; you are in over your head . And have you seen what Donald Trump is up to??? You would be SHOCKED!!!

Damn dude. I didn't know she was such a saint. How can I atone for my blasphemy of our lady of Goldman Sachs?

That's not who she is. I would argue that you have no idea who she is. You should cut back on your Fox News. So she gave a speech at Goldman Sachs. So what, people want to hear what she has to say, like hundreds of other groups of people. One thing is for sure, as president she would never have appointed a fucking former chairman of GS to run the Treasury. Do you even know what that means, and you're worried about a speech? You really should cut back on your Fox News/ Alex Jones/ Rush Limbo intake, it's making you sound really stupid

You mistake me.

I'm not supporting Trump in this. I supported him being elected but this presidency is pretty much convincing me it was all a show the whole time.

And your girl is no better. A pitbull that when after the women her husband serially abused while acting like some sort of patron saint of women's issues.

No one in these parties at the grassroots level is anything other than a decent human being with strong ideas about how the country ought to be run. Their entire career is a vetting process by groups like the CFR to see who will play ball. Thinking your guy is great and the other side's guy is a monster is exactly fine with them since whichever one you choose is their pawn.

You supported him as president. I'm done. I don't waste my time with morons.

Have a good day man.

You can choose to hate people who disagree with you if you want. I'm not going down that road.

Seriously. Donald Trump is the most unprepared, racist, golf-playing, vindictive, childish moron ever and if you can't see that, yes, stay on your high road lol

Wait the most golf-playing? Obama might not agree with that!

It's hard convincing right-wing people that money is the root of all evil and that in order for civilization to advance we need to abandon this fantasy. I certainly try though.

Its fun watching this sub be consistently Pro-Trump/Anti-Clinton yet every week there is the obligatory "There is not left and right" post just to...keep you in check.

This sub wasnt like that until after TD was created. People have become more engulfed in left right bs than any time in my life. People weren't even this exaggerated during Reagan, even though everyone kept saying he would kill us all with nukes. I didnt hear the word liberal or conservative 500 times a day during Reagan like i do now.

You think thats something r/conspiracy would care about...

Instead a post about clinton is the only other +2000 karma post.

Because it was invaded by idiots from The Don.

No it's not. The political spectrum exists.

At the top there is no political difference, we are under a Bi partisan oligarchy. Bush and Clinton Golf together. Trump wanted to put Hillary in jail and backed down immediately, said we didnt belong in Syria and bombed them anyways. Said Nato was outdated, then he back tracked and sucked their dick. The President is a puppet and has been since JFK was murdered.

More similar with foreign policy, sure. Domestic they are completely different in almost all facets. They were more so before the GOP started to outspend Dems back in the 80s. I get the argument, it's just wrong and not based in reality. Having worked at the state level, GOP and Dems are very different. If a person doesn't see this they should become more involved in the process. Than they will understand.

LOL, of course it is organic, you know there are no conspiracies because you worked on campaigns? LOL!!!!!!

The entire spectrum of political opinion can be captured on a one-dimensional line, and Republicans and Democrats represent the polar extremes of that line. /s

You're right of course. It's very hard to maintain a grip on that knowledge though, when you feel that values core to your very being are under attack by others. Even if that attack is directed, instigated, from somewhere else.

We love our friends and families-- when we feel they are imperiled, threatened, or even just made fun of it's really hard to be objective about it.

I use to fall for this left vs right democrat vs republican liberal vs conservative mind control scheme. I am now woke and realize their are two different groups just not the aforementioned. There are globalists and there are patriots!

That's funny, the politicians seem to believe the sham too. They fight worse than we do most of the time.

It is all for show most the time.

So all of this BS about the healthcare vote and the refusal for Democrats to support any of it was all just theater?

How interesting...... LOL...

It is more complex and organic than that. How about we would have had Obamacare either way. Why does everyone forget that. Obama was accused of ripping off Mit Romenys plan, so we were getting healthcare whether the president had an R or a D next to their name.

But why would anyone in their right mind support an incomplete plan? Obamacare was shit, everything proposed since has been much much worse. Not better. Also how many GOP refused to vote for it?

Not really. Copy pasta below, credit to /u/ohaioohio :

House Vote for Net Neutrality

Senate Vote for Net Neutrality

Money in Elections and Voting

Campaign Finance Disclosure Requirements

DISCLOSE Act

Backup Paper Ballots - Voting Record

Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act

Sets reasonable limits on the raising and spending of money by electoral candidates to influence elections (Reverse Citizens United)

The Economy/Jobs

Limits Interest Rates for Certain Federal Student Loans

Student Loan Affordability Act

Low-Income Home Energy Assistance Funding Amendment

End the Bureau of Consumer Financial Protection

Kill Credit Default Swap Regulations

Revokes tax credits for businesses that move jobs overseas

Disapproval of President's Authority to Raise the Debt Limit

Disapproval of President's Authority to Raise the Debt Limit

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act

Dodd Frank Wall Street Reform and Consumer Protection Bureau Act

American Jobs Act of 2011 - $50 billion for infrastructure projects

Emergency Unemployment Compensation Extension

Reduces Funding for Food Stamps

Minimum Wage Fairness Act

Paycheck Fairness Act

"War on Terror"

Time Between Troop Deployments

Habeas Corpus for Detainees of the United States

Habeas Review Amendment

Prohibits Detention of U.S. Citizens Without Trial

Authorizes Further Detention After Trial During Wartime

Prohibits Prosecution of Enemy Combatants in Civilian Courts

Repeal Indefinite Military Detention

Oversight of CIA Interrogation and Detention Amendment

Patriot Act Reauthorization

FISA Act Reauthorization of 2008

FISA Reauthorization of 2012

House Vote to Close the Guantanamo Prison

Senate Vote to Close the Guantanamo Prison

Prohibits the Use of Funds for the Transfer or Release of Individuals Detained at Guantanamo

Oversight of CIA Interrogation and Detention

Civil Rights

Same Sex Marriage Resolution 2006

Employment Non-Discrimination Act of 2013

Exempts Religiously Affiliated Employers from the Prohibition on Employment Discrimination Based on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity

Family Planning

Teen Pregnancy Education Amendment

Family Planning and Teen Pregnancy Prevention

Protect Women's Health From Corporate Interference Act The 'anti-Hobby Lobby' bill.

Environment

Stop "the War on Coal" Act of 2012

EPA Science Advisory Board Reform Act of 2013

Prohibit the Social Cost of Carbon in Agency Determinations

Misc

Prohibit the Use of Funds to Carry Out the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act

Prohibiting Federal Funding of National Public Radio

Allow employers to penalize employees that don't submit genetic testing for health insurance (Committee vote)

I feel like it's super obvious yet people fall to it constantly

This is TRUTH!

When i read twitter it really makes me sad how bad america is becoming.

"institutional racism" "muh millenials" "patriarchy/misogyny" "wage gap" etc etc.

I fear for the countries in western europe. I really don't want us to become that ignorant and stupid.

But if it works in america you bet the elite will make it work here too. I guess "migrants" are our Achilles heel.

all by design my friend.

If you are not willing to look at a conspiracy because of a certain party, there's a good chance you're being biased.

That's only the 1st stage of the lopsided position. If you disagree, then you are a lemming or a shill.....right? That's why no one will entertain some of the idiotic ideas as well as the intelligent one's. If you find fault, then you're attacked :)

So, revise your view a bit and reflect reality :)

Hilarious how the shills from both factions are out in force here ganging up on the OP.

Well done OP! You've succeeded in unifying this sub!

It's freedom vs tyranny. Always has been and always will be.

KMFDM wrote a great song about the divide amoung America.

The only divide that actually exists, and the only one that actually matters, is the one between the rich and the not rich.

this is what the 1% wants. while the fleece all of us. welcome to dystopia...

Funny thing is that the left wing and the right wing are both attached to the same bird.

Too bad most people wont comprehend that.

Well duh

The left and right are working together to keep everyone circling the drain meanwhile they steal and use our tax dollars as they see fit.

It's easier to make everyone fight when you can group them into polarized extremes. The sooner people realize we can agree on some things, but not on others and still be friends, the sooner we can get to fixing all of these problems.

The only real separation that matters is the 1% vs. the peasants. (we're the peasants, unless you happen to be a Rothschild on r/conspiracy)

No its not

Broadly speaking, politics is the entertainment wing of the MIC, but when one side is putting forward a bill that would make 23 million Americans lose health care coverage and the other side wants everyone to be covered, it's not just a charade to guarantee infighting amongst the populace.

The Republican health care overhaul passed by the House earlier this month would result in 23 million additional people losing health insurance by 2026 compared to coverage under the current Affordable Care Act.

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2017-05-24/cbo-score-23-million-lose-coverage-under-american-health-care-act-deficit-trimmed-119-billion

Those real world consequences, on that scale, make the difference between the parties genuine.

I very much agree that our disagreements don't need to turn vicious, as they often do. I also agree that there are wealthy people who try to influence the population. There are, however, very real differences in what people believe and which policies the favor. Some policies are toxic to the country and the environment, others not so much or actually beneficial. The personal debates on this and other subs matter because each person's convictions represent (or ought to) one vote, hopefully for the better.

What the fuck are you talking about? Are you trying to tell me that my happy family based on hard work and conservative values is anything remotely like some faggot wearing a pink tootoo that wants me to pay for his healthcare? Or some fat ugly feminist who thinks she can kill her child and wants me to pay for her abortions and birth control? You think I am like a welfare recipient that sits and does jack shit all day?

Fuck you dude. Fuck you.

Removed: Rule 10

The only time a politician speaks the truth is when they call another politician a liar.

thepoliticalcompass dot com

Mission accomplished

Not red state vs blue state. It's the state vs you.

Yes. Having an independent mind, idea or opinion is quickly dismissed by both sides. And it's disheartening that one can't even suggest or entertain an opposing viewpoint just for discussion purposes or for casual conversation without it turning sideways. Both sides.

Finally, an intelligent being.

Divide and conquer.

Agreed. We should prosecute Clinton and investigate further into the deep state no matter how you feel about the election.

Can we sticky this? I've been a long time believer that people in power keep us hating each other so that we divert attention away from the real culprits. Pure Wizard of Oz tactics.

Collectivism is the root of our issues. People are inherently different and as a result, have opposing views oh the human condition. Only no person is willing to embrace their individual thoughts and defend them. We all throw them away to join the bandwagon of others "with whom we share views." The catch is those groups formed are no longer interested in nurturing their views but rather engaging in a war with those who harbor opposing views. This is what is commonly referred to as "us versus them." People start seeing victory in the losses of their opponents and fail to realize that when one group loses, we all lose.

Ahh, the "class war." They'd just love for us to get caught up in our daily struggles, distracted by continual idiocy. And although it is unfortunately working on some people, they can't convince us all ;) facts are still fact.

"keep them fighting amongst themselves and they are no longer a threat"-David rockefeller

The thing about I hate the most about the left / right paradigm is that 85% of the supporters who align with both sides do not even understand what makes policies and government right or left. They are all so ignorant and simply go with the flow of the people around them.

I simply just hate socialists and big government.

Makes it much easier. They seem to bridge the gap somehow.

United together a threat mankind displays Divide them with doubt and they'll all wash away.

Left wing in terms of Democratic Party is really just the Center Right and Right wing is anywhere between moderate Center Right and borderline fascist or extremely "religious" therefore intolerant and bigoted. Libertarians are strange and don't really fit neatly in one position on the spectrum because they champion social liberties yet worship corporations and the infrastructure of our fraudulent crony capitalism. It was clear as day Congress wasn't fuckin with Bernie Nina Turner or any person who is genuinely even remotely Progressive. They weren't fuckin with Ron Paul either btw.

Meh. Left wing politicians suck and right wing politicians suck. Doesn't mean they aren't not legitimately opposed to one another.

It's so weird this kinds of post only seem to pop up when a negative story comes out about the President, or about some bullshit theory you people run into the ground without a shred of evidence.

WE'VE BEEN STARING TOO MUCH AT THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT WINGS TO NOTICE THE BEAK PECKING OUR GUTS OUT!

it's true that the left/right dichotomy is false and propagated to dissovle and prevent solidarity, but there are continuums of cosomological, ethical/moral, authoritarian/libertarian, mutualistic/individualistic ontological orientations that makes our simplistic republican form of govt the untenable mess is now, and are why dog whistles work so well.

right now there is a growing call for a red/brown alliance to "defeat the establishment, the deep state, and imperialism." the primary proponents of this alliance are the alt right (their own chosen name) and progressive left (their own chosen name).

while an alliance seems like a very grand idea and their joint goal a noble one, it all breaks down if you make each side define what they mean by "defeat," "establishment," "deep state, and "imperialism." it breaks down even further when you ask them who they want to replace the establishment with. when you do this you find their common ground is very shallow and based not on an overarching agreement of how this country should be governed, but pissed off people who want to make those who pissed them off pay for pissing them off. they have very amorphous and contradictory ideas about who, how, why, and when this retribution will be carried out and redressed.

there is no way for these two self-identified groups would ever be able to settle on a single candidate to represent them without a common enemy to unite them. however, once in power, their common enemy seemingly vanquished simply by their having won an election, they will fight each other and grow to hate each other with more bile than the generic right and left do now, because they really are quite different ontologically.

as verboten as i know it is to say here, but as a proud conspiracist, the goal should not be getting people on board with pet conspiracies, but formulating and executing a plan to nullify current ones and prevent future ones. trying to solve a conspiracy is fun, but it is just masturbatory self indulgence if the real goal isn't to use what we know fix the overarching circumstances--boiling water from a contaminated well, instead of digging a new well where the water is clean. right now--seth rich, 9/11, JFK, pizzagate etc are all just focusing on who contaminated the well, interesting, but unhelpful in the long run.

Really, you see no difference between a party that is denying science, using a state run propaganda media outlet for 'news', cult like adoration and belief of Trump, and the left?

They are not the fucking same and are far far from it. When our elected officials fuck up we on the left call them out for it. I had plenty of conversations about Obamas flaws with my friends. Yet the right acts like they worship the republican party and disbelief of the blatant lies they tell is like disbelief of the bible. These people are off their rockers and nuts.

We are nothing fucking like them, it is not 'created' to make us fight, we hate the right for what they stand for, how they treat women, how they take away our healthcare, how 'librul tears' are a funny fucking joke and not the fact that people lives are being destroyed by idiotic republican policies. And I like drinking fucking water without getting diarrhea so give me back my fucking EPA you right wing twats.

Only people who believe that the right and left are alike are ignorant or right wing people trying to make themselves feel like they are on the same level as the 'elite libruls'. We are not on their level at all we are way fucking above them. Not because elite, but because they have dug their dumb asses so deep in shit and keep digging.

Correct

No better way to go about your shady business in a proudly declared democracy than to keep the public focused on each other and not those running our country

Left vs right was a big thing in the 20th century, but I believe it is a thing of the past, since new things have become important. Look for example at the pirate party in Europe, which has members all across the spectrum, who fight for a free internet, the free flow of information, a new copyright law and many other things important to us netizens.

Why?

I have no idea what you are talking about. I suspect you might not, either. The native peoples of Europe are white, and they are being diluted very quickly, without getting a chance to vote on it. This is sick. Anybody who supports or argues for the dilution of any ethnic group is a sicko, pure and simple.

every problem in brown countries is white countries fault

lol.

we can not take in every countries poor people. we do not have the means to sustain them. We already have homeless starving people here, we do not need anymore.

Furthermore, I do wish we'd let the shitholes bomb each other and stay out of their business. That does not mean Americans and Europeans should be held responsible to take all their citizens in to feed and clothe them.

Like, how about a swap?

They come to Europe, and whitey goes to the middle east.

Lets give it say.... 200 years.

What do you think these places would look like then?

The Syrian refugee crisis was manufactured by President Obama's CIA, and the historic movements of 'refugees'. This was their desired solution to the manufactured problem. It really isn't about race or nationality, those are secondary factors to the true goal of global social engineering.

Listen, I gave you the resources, I read as much as I desired. If you wish to keep believing that inbreeding is healthy, feel free to go fuck your mother. Have a nice life.

We can just get rid of all welfare and the free market will sort itself out... the wealth of our planet is being siphoned by literal vampire potbellied goblins in a million different ways.

I think crypto is the way out

Yes that's how it actually is!

You could say equally that the right has gone too far into authoritarianism and away from individual self-determination.

Leftist politics is based on the idea of class conflict i.e. top v bottom. What are you on about?

Yeah you're a cuck lmfaoooo

How old are you?

It seems like a lot of these commentors have absolutely no idea what a modern or even a classic leftist position is. They mostly seem to be believing in the strawman of liberals that conservatives create - ie SJWs, globalists, corporate media, etc.

Always column "C"

the american ppl who benefit from Dem's social policies?

The dems. Isn't that interesting?

My post had nothing to do with the ACA. The irony i was speaking of was the person I replied to brought up partisan politics in a thread condemning them.

Keep commenting, I'm bored any way, and it keeps showing how dumb you are for anyone that looks at your post history.