Most people here are probably familiar with Brave New World and 1984... Here's a few other vintage dystopian/utopian novels that I thought were pretty memorable.
368 2017-08-06 by Ninjakick666
It's probably safe to say that a decent number of regular users of this sub have read stuff like Orwell's 1984 or Brave New World and enjoyed the subject matter... I'll suggest a few other similar novels that you might enjoy if you wanna expand a little bit more into those themes.
[We - Yevgeny Zamyatin - 1921] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_(novel) - I'd say this should be your first one to check out, though it does cover a lot of the same ideas as both 1984 and BNW... but it did come out first by a longshot... and probably had some influence on the other two. Really good read... really surprised I don't hear more about this. Kinda like a hipster 1984, all about a totalitarian surveillance state and two "naughty" civilians that dare to fall in love and buck the system. If you only got time for one of these novels... this is the one.
“I am aware of myself. And, of course, the only things that are aware of themselves and conscious of their individuality are irritated eyes, cut fingers, sore teeth. A healthy eye, finger, tooth might as well not even be there. Isn't it clear that individual consciousness is just sickness?”
Erewhon - Samuel Butler - 1872 - Starts out kinda lame with a standard adventure story, but once they find the hidden civilization things get good quick... extra cool cause it was written so long ago and this society had predicted a "rise of the machines" kinda scenario and already banned most things mechanical, even a pocket watch was contraband. Good world building... physical sickness would get you locked away in jail... but committing crimes would land you a comfy bed and doting friends and family bringing you flowers and soup. Two separate currencies... one for trade and one for religion and some kinda hyper-veganism thats almost Jainist... Story is kinda lame, but the world and the kooky ideas are really interesting.
"“There is no security against the ultimate development of mechanical consciousness, in the fact of machines possessing little consciousness now. A mollusc has not much consciousness. Reflect upon the extraordinary advance which machines have made during the last few hundred years, and note how slowly the animal and vegetable kingdoms are advancing. The more highly organised machines are creatures not so much of yesterday, as of the last five minutes, so to speak, in comparison with past time. Assume for the sake of argument that conscious beings have existed for some twenty million years: see what strides machines have made in the last thousand! May not the world last twenty million years longer? If so, what will they not in the end become? Is it not safer to nip the mischief in the bud and to forbid them further progress?"
Walden Two - B.F. Skinner - 1948 - Really awesome book... the story is almost non existent as it describes some outsiders being introduced to a small utopian community. A lot of thought provoking ideas of how to improve on society presented back to back through the whole novel pretty much. Might be a bit dry for a lot of folks cause it describe the research and design of the standard Walden Two drinking cup... how the windows are configured... but in with all that is a sort of freeform supply and demand based work credit system... and plenty of other interesting ideas of how America could be slightly different but oh so much more efficient. Again... don't read it for the story, but read it for a whole bunch of nerdy stuff to make ya go hmmmmmmm.
“Society attacks early, when the individual is helpless. It enslaves him almost before he has tasted freedom. The 'ologies' will tell you how its done Theology calls it building a conscience or developing a spirit of selflessness. Psychology calls it the growth of the superego. Considering how long society has been at it, you'd expect a better job. But the campaigns have been badly planned and the victory has never been secured.”
Stand On Zanzibar - John Brunner - 1968 - Really cool book, but not an easy read... pretty large pagecount and it hops around kinda like Pulp Fiction. I enjoyed it despite how disjointed it was... plus it had a whole bunch of really cool predictions of the future that were kinda accurate... like President Obomi plus a good load of overpopulation and political intrigue... not a casual read.
“It's natural for a man to defend what's dear to him: his own life, his home, his family. But in order to make him fight on behalf of his rulers, the rich and powerful who are too cunning to fight their own battles-in short to defend not himself but people whom he's never met and moreover would not care to be in the same room with him-you have to condition him into loving violence not for the benefits it bestows on him but for its own sake. Result: the society has to defend itself from its defenders, because what's admirable in wartime is termed psychopathic in peace. It's easier to wreck a man than to repair him. Ask any psychotherapist. And take a look at the crime figures among veterans.”
The Wanting Seed - Anthony Burgess - 1962 - Written by the guy that did A Clockwork Orange... not really the most badassed story, but the setting is really cool. Rampant overpopulation has pretty much turned control of the world over to homosexuals and cannibalism is on the rise due to food shortages. Not the best work of fiction but and interesting book ya don't hear much about.
“We're a government that believes in everybody having the illusion of free will.”
I'll give honorable mention to The Giver and Anthem... and the short story Harrison Bergeron from Vonnegut. Those are the ones that jump out in my memory as solid dystopia/utopias... any other books like these that you'd suggest?
117 comments
1 S_words4_500 2017-08-06
Ninja, serous question. Are you genuinely a person who rallies a group? Or are you more cerebral? I am not attacking you whatsoever, but do you see yourself more as an intelligence officer? Or more of a leader? This matters very much very soon. Either way I do appreciate your posts.
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
I'm ENTJ is that's what you are getting at.
1 S_words4_500 2017-08-06
Admittance of ignorance, but I dont know what those letters mean. i was as EMT for a while, if that's worth anything
1 xleb1 2017-08-06
ENTJ is a personality type from Meyers-Briggs
r/entj
1 MissType 2017-08-06
Didn't know there was a related sub, thanks.
1 egbdfaces 2017-08-06
how many of us are ntjs on this sub haha.
1 xleb1 2017-08-06
Farenheit 451
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
Not sure how I left that one out... slipped my mind I guess. Not too long ago I scored copy of it 451 with this uber badassed cover.
1 xleb1 2017-08-06
I remember that edition.
1 RecoveringGrace 2017-08-06
Everyone forgets that one.
1 MrAndyBorer 2017-08-06
Buy Naughty America account - $15 [lifetime] Buy Naughty America account
1 chokingonlego 2017-08-06
The Veldt is also really good. Lots of fun stuff about consumerism, virtual reality, and the addictive effects of technology. Plus there's a dope song by Dead Mau5 about it.
1 helveticalTrump 2017-08-06
I always found it somewhat ironic that we're taught these books in school, almost like ((they)) are rubbing it in our faces
1 HibikiSS 2017-08-06
Thanks for the post Ninja.
1 DumbledoreSays 2017-08-06
Are you really going to read 1984? Lots of people claim they have read it, but they still believe without question in things like advanced military technology.
1 TruthTaxonomy 2017-08-06
I would suggest to you that you should read up on rocket motors and rocket control. Many of the points in OP's video are misguided, I've built and launched many small rockets and have no trouble understanding how they work.
1 SilverbackRibs 2017-08-06
That video is very misleading. Beginning with the argument that rockets "MUST generate left with the fins otherwise they fall out of the air".
The principles of rocketry and principles of aviation are two different things.
1 ThePotatoeWithNoMass 2017-08-06
r/imverysmart
1 MaesterPraetor 2017-08-06
My first /r/iamverysmart in the wild! Thank you for including convoluted sentence structure too! The gift that keeps on giving!
1 AtlantikSender 2017-08-06
I was with you in the first sentence, most people claim to have read it and haven't. But you went completely batshit after that.
1 DumbledoreSays 2017-08-06
Which part of 1984 is 'fiction'?
1 AtlantikSender 2017-08-06
All of it.
1 Majnum 2017-08-06
"When the time catch" us, the one with Charlton Heston and that is about the zoilent green
1 RecoveringGrace 2017-08-06
Soilent, isn't it?
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
Soylent...
1 S_words4_500 2017-08-06
A favorite among Heston movies. It's people btw
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
This is my favorite Heston movie...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Omega_Man
1 S_words4_500 2017-08-06
Ah, just now came to me how many films Heston did on the topic of isolation. Never actually thought of that till now.
1 RecoveringGrace 2017-08-06
Exactly.
1 Tetragramatron 2017-08-06
Why not Zoidberg?
1 Majnum 2017-08-06
I saw it so long ago, so I think you are right.
Thanks!
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
Films? The Holy Mountain. Glen and Randa [good luck finding this masterpiece], Gasssssss by Roger Corman, Wild in the Streets, Death Race 2000 [70s] , Rollerball [70s], THX-1138, Things to Come [1936].
1 Majnum 2017-08-06
Those are some of my favorites
Dark Star (mid 70's) is a good one to
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
I love Dark Star.
1 MellowEpistle 2017-08-06
Day of the Triffids is considered by some as soft dystopian but the story of how the triffids supposedly came to be, and touching upon GM, is quite interesting.
Personally it's one of my favourite novels regardless.
1 princessk8 2017-08-06
Also by John Wyndham, The Chrysalids. It's such a great book.
1 totalgyro 2017-08-06
Triffids is a brilliant book.
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
This is the first non-goofy sci fi film ever made.
1 RecoveringGrace 2017-08-06
"The Giver" should be added. Also, "The Good Earth".
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
I'll check out The Good Earth... never heard of it... The Giver got honorable mention at the bottom... I know is if kinda like a YA novel, but I thought it was a pretty solidly built world they lived in.
1 RecoveringGrace 2017-08-06
The Good Earth is about the bombing of Hiroshima. There is a lot there. It's almost 100% fed-speak.
1 GirlNumber20 2017-08-06
No, it isn't. It takes place in China during the Maoist revolution.
1 vitalxx 2017-08-06
It's a great book though!
1 mastigia 2017-08-06
Forge of God and Anvil of the Stars are great if you got a kick for AI/Von Neumann machines run amok.
1 sputnikmonolith 2017-08-06
Forge of God is great! Forgotten about that gem... haven't read the sequel though. Good?
1 mastigia 2017-08-06
Oh man, without the sequel I don't even know how you would understand the story! The children of the people saved from the catastrophe go after the creators of the machines. Must read if you liked the first.
1 sputnikmonolith 2017-08-06
I'm gonna order it now. Cheers.
1 paulie_purr 2017-08-06
Jack London's The Iron Heel for alternative history leading to 20th century dystopia, leading to an unseen utopia, looking back on what brought them there.
Limbo by Bernard Wolfe from the early 50's should be cult classic. A situation in which society has decided to disarm men literally, lopping off limbs, women pushing them around in carriages, though the well-off eventually get cybernetic enhancements and things get real interesting. Fucking strange.
Almost anything by Phillip K. Dick. Vonnegut's Player Piano. The aforementioned We is great. There's many more I'm forgetting but these are good picks after hitting the classics.
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
Vonnegut's Galapagos is very prophetic.
Philip K Dick readers should also read William S. Burroughs.
'' "I cannot accept Burroughs' view that we have been invaded by an alien virus, an information virus, yet on the other hand I cannot readily dismiss this bizarre theory as mere paranoia on his part. I think he is onto something real and important, and that his statements do more good--far more good--than harm (that is, he states the problem correctly, although perhaps his analysis of the cause is faulty; still, merely to be aware of the problem is to achieve a great deal). Now, I have been able to find accounts in ancient times of what seems to be a thinking or perceptual dysfunction or perhaps the thinking or perceptual dysfunction.''
http://pkdreligion.blogspot.com/2011/09/pkd-on-language-virus-theory-of-william.html
1 An-arkos 2017-08-06
Thanks for posting Ninja!
1 Akareyon 2017-08-06
Momo, Michael Ende. Pretends to be a fantastic children's story, but actually is a scathing critique of the usury system if you know how to read it. Highly recommended. Ende was a shaman.
OP, I have a special recommendation for you; not a book, but some facts: overpopulationisamyth.com
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
Ill give you back a very deep children's book.
Out of print for decades, it is back. My favorite book from my 70s childhood.
https://www.amazon.com/Pedant-Shuffly-John-Bellairs/dp/1887726071
I wish I still had my childhood copy as it is now worth thousands of dollars. Not many contemporary children's books command such prices. A serious treasure.
1 pieceofchance 2017-08-06
The Electric Zoot Suit
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
That seems to be quite rare.
1 Ajsarch 2017-08-06
"Darkness at Noon" should be included
1 aaaaa2222 2017-08-06
Nice post!
1 khegiobridge 2017-08-06
Bladerunner. The planet is destroyed; leave now for the outer colonies If you can. And if you're not 'human' (other), we will hunt you down and kill you extrajudicially.
1 creme_boolee 2017-08-06
Which is fucked up when the androids don't know they're androids.
1 khegiobridge 2017-08-06
I like that in the movie, the replicants are becoming self aware: they want more; more life, more years, more freedom, and that makes them so dangerous they must be hunted down and exterminated lest the rebellion spread. Even more chilling, the Bladerunner assigned the mission to 'retire' (kill) the rebels is probably a replicant himself.
1 jdotg 2017-08-06
Isn't Deckert in the upcoming movie? That kind of negates the idea of him being a replicant, outside of him being a special prototype. The movie states they have a 4 year life and the process can not be circumvented. I. The novel they were unable go extend the lifespan. Either way good movie and book!
1 don_hector 2017-08-06
Thanks for doing this, I will check some of these out. I've read BNW and the majority of Orwell's published work, albeit some years ago. I can't wait to get started!
1 AntiSocialBlogger 2017-08-06
Kim stanley Robinson's Mars books are a good read. The future is run by mega corporations that are more powerful than countries.
1 Crashes556 2017-08-06
Not sure if it was mentioned but animal farm.
1 TheCheeseNinja 2017-08-06
HI fellow ninja, great list! I'd also like to throw in The Road by Cormac McCarthy and the book Feed by Mathew Tobin anderson. The Road I liked for its bleakness. It's more of a psychological journey than anything.
As for Feed, although it's a YA novel, it's presents a future reality that is based on consumerism and instant comunication. Not a great work of literary majesty, but the premise (the book was written in early 2000s) is scarily accurate.
For the young uns, I think Wall-e is a great place to start!
1 EarnestNoMeta 2017-08-06
Harrison bergeron
1 newb4 2017-08-06
Both the short story and the feature length movie adaptation (which differs significantly, but retains the central theme) are incredibly significant stories right now.
1 EarnestNoMeta 2017-08-06
I didnt know there was a movie... Thanks for saying that
1 overtaxedoverworked 2017-08-06
Always thought A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr. deserves a mention in the genre as well.
1 lock_up_hillary 2017-08-06
"The Lathe of Heaven" by Ursula La Guin
Short, quick read, weird as fuck.
1 Findingthedot 2017-08-06
Just finished this amazing.. also the dispossed by Ursula is good too
1 monkeybawz 2017-08-06
Darkness at Noon. I think it's by koetsler. It's about a senior army soldier being chewed up and spat out by the revolution he help set in motion.
1 Captain_Chromo 2017-08-06
A good dystopian movie is Brazil from 1985.
1 skeezerp 2017-08-06
Windup girl
1 Cainpole 2017-08-06
Anthem by Ayn Rand is a good one my English teacher made us read in high school. Haven't forgot it since.
1 egbdfaces 2017-08-06
quick one too. makes some of her other philosophy have more context.
1 chokingonlego 2017-08-06
One of my favorite books. Very enlightening on her philosophies and beliefs, and fairly instrumental in the development of my own.
1 battle 2017-08-06
This Perfect Day by Ira Levin.
1 IanPhlegming 2017-08-06
I came here to post that, and you beat me to it. It was the novel he wrote after "Rosemary's Baby," when he was at the height of his fame, was a huge bestseller and won the Prometheus Hall of Fame Award.
Yet it's his least-known novel. Maybe because--unlike "Rosemary's Baby," "Boys from Brazil," "Stepford Wives" and "Sliver"--it's not been made into a movie. Hmmmmmm......
1 fartingintheair 2017-08-06
Player Piano by Kurt Vonnegut seems like a pretty likely future.
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
I just read Sirens of Titan a week or so ago... I still have a couple Vonnegut books left to read and Player Piano is one of them.
1 plato_thyself 2017-08-06
Came here to suggest Player Piano - Vonnegut's first novel written in the 50s that envisions a future where humans discover their lives are meaningless as a result of intelligent machines taking over and running society.
1 SickSalamander 2017-08-06
That's because it wasn't science fiction - it was written about modern day (1950s) Schenectady New York
1 EscalatingEris 2017-08-06
The Space Merchants by Frederick Pohl and C. M. Kornbluth. Also worth a try is The Marching Morons.
1 sputnikmonolith 2017-08-06
The Penultimate Truth - Phillip K Dick
1 sputnikmonolith 2017-08-06
I was introduced to SciFi And dystopian fiction by a series called 'Mortal Engines' ('Hungry Cities' or something like that in the US) by Phillip Reeve, when I was young and I still read and re-read them. Solid post-apocalyptic dystopian fiction with brilliant world-building revolving a concept called 'Municipal Darwinism'. Also, Peter Jackson's directing the film adaptation, coming out next year. Gonna be HUGE. Can't wait.
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
I'm just gonna drop this here. https://www.amazon.com/Last-Days-Christ-Vampire/dp/188662500X
1 justinmchase 2017-08-06
Does post apocolyptic count?
The Road. On the Beach. Attack of the Triffids.
1 GirlNumber20 2017-08-06
Children of Men, P.D. James. Great film adaptation, too.
1 ThuviaofMars 2017-08-06
This is recent: Mountebank's Monster and His Mom
Dystopian novel about destruction of the individual with an eye to destroying society. The story is "true fiction" based on actual events that include gaslighting, gang stalking, psychosurgery, poison, and betrayal.
Free version can be found here.
1 52NUKE 2017-08-06
Awesome i just recently bought a bunch a conspiracy minded books. Look for other similar books like...
The Octopus: Secret Government and the Death of Danny Casolaro
The Thirteenth Tribe: The Khazar Empire and Its Heritage
Underwater and Underground Bases
Power, Crime and Mystification (Tavistock Studies)
Books by Jim Keith & David McGowan & Phillip K. Dick
1 emperorisnaked7 2017-08-06
Herland, it's about a place in the jungle where only women exist and a group of men trying to find the lost tribe actually do find them. The result is mixed.
1 Qoc_Qoc12 2017-08-06
The handmaids tale.
1 egbdfaces 2017-08-06
Logans Run
1 pineal_implant 2017-08-06
One book I really like is A Strange Manuscript Found in a Copper Cylinder, really easy read, about an explorer who finds a society that is backwards in many ways, notably economically. Janitors are the most highly regarded and CEOs are seen as the lowest of the low. It's a funny dynamic that exposes flaws in our own system.
Then there is [Creation Myth](www.creationmyth.net) a psychedelic-fiction trilogy which has a striking take on modern conspiracies... the best IMO, although I've only finished two books, the second is particularly on-the-mark with it's financial and extreme drug-war conspiracies. If you are a proponent of psychedelics at all I would make reading this series a priority. Only found it at a book fair so not sure if its in stores or not.
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
There are some overtones of what you describe in Copper Cylinder in World War Z... once civilization is decimated by the zombies there is an inversion of layers of strata in society... A corporate CEO or tax lawyer is virtually useless to a rebuilding America... they end up getting bossed around by their mexican gardeners... cause the guy that can cultivate crops is the new top level executive now... and the white collar guys have no valuable skills that carry over to a post apocalyptic world.
1 Franks_friend_Huey 2017-08-06
Brazil?
1 lluckya 2017-08-06
We is one of my favorite books of all time. The play on sentence structure is phenomenal.
If people like post apocalyptic stuff, check out "Lost Everything". It takes place after a global warming holocaust/drastic climate change and the prose is beautiful.
1 kgph 2017-08-06
Paul Auster's In the Country of Last Things is great. I would probably add Kafka's Amerika to your list too, even though it probably wouldn't strictly classify as a dystopian work.
1 ApocalypseFatigue 2017-08-06
So good to see some love for "We!" I'll be re-reading that. Thank you, OP.
1 Lord__Buckethead 2017-08-06
I got bored of "Erewhon" because Butler begins by telling a story than abandons that for world building alone which jars, but it's certainly interesting. I remember the straighteners and how they'd feign drinking problems as this was more acceptable than a cough.
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
Yeah... the actual story to Erewhon is weak... but the world building is really good... I guess a lot of the books I suggested are more about the world and less about the actual plot and characters.
1 HoundDogs 2017-08-06
Withur We is a good one with a libertarian lean. I enjoyed most of the story however the author seemed to not know where to take it for the ending and the result is somewhat strange and uncharacteristic of the rest of the book.
1 LordyHotdog 2017-08-06
We is so good. One of my favorite books :)
1 keball 2017-08-06
Island by Aldous Huxley is a more positive view of utopian novel. It is an excellent read and his last novel.
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
Positive? I'm not sure I'd agree. Too bad we can't debate openly without spoilers.
My opinions would ruin it for those choosing to read this great book.
All of his books are important. He was raised by a NWO eugenics family that hob nobbed with the power elite.
''Eyeless in Gaza'' and ''Ape and Essence'' are amazing, especially the latter.
1 keball 2017-08-06
Sorry was in a rush so I generalized. I would say it is positive realism compared to a Brave New World and is a great commentary on the impact of imperalism and consumerism in shaping peoples' decisions. Island was most likely a clash between Aldous seeing the British occupation of India from the 1 mile high view being, like you said, derived from a wealthy family, and also being a student of Hinduism and researching the destruction of tribes like those modeled by Pala.
1 notacrackheadofficer 2017-08-06
https://www.amazon.com/Kampus-James-Gunn/dp/1585867772
https://www.amazon.com/Glass-Bead-Game-Magister-Ludi/dp/8087888383
https://www.amazon.com/Good-News-Novel-Edward-Abbey/dp/0452265657
https://www.amazon.com/Monkey-vs-Robot-James-Kochalka/dp/1891830155
Thanks OP
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
Love The Glass Bead Game... I dunno if it counts as utopian, but it has some really great mind-expanding ideas.
1 stizzzzzy 2017-08-06
Let's not forget Republic was the first !
1 Ninjakick666 2017-08-06
I really wanted to enjoy The Republic, but I just couldn't get into it... there was so much packed in there that a lot of the cool stuff got drowned out by noise.
1 patagonian_pegasus 2017-08-06
On the Beach by Nevil Schute. Not really a dystopian novel more of a nuclear holocaust book that fits with the times.
1 c0ntr0ll 2017-08-06
Minority Report
1 jmflna 2017-08-06
Great post OP!
I would suggest One Second After. Great book about an EMP attact on the country. To this day whenever the power goes out, I check my cell phone to make sure that it still works.
1 a-la-mierda 2017-08-06
V for Vendetta comic
1 overtaxedoverworked 2017-08-06
Oh, and maybe for a more jovial look while also addressing some of the most pressing concerns of late stage capitalism - War with the Newts by Karel Čapek.
1 egbdfaces 2017-08-06
quick one too. makes some of her other philosophy have more context.
1 sputnikmonolith 2017-08-06
I'm gonna order it now. Cheers.
1 chokingonlego 2017-08-06
One of my favorite books. Very enlightening on her philosophies and beliefs, and fairly instrumental in the development of my own.