What does this have to do with John Podesta, James Alefantis, or Comet Ping Pong?

You're not that daft are you???

That's their number #1 job qualification

What is it that you think I do for a job?

So now you bait someone to call you something that would get them deleted? A reverse censorship?

Whether he used a specific word or not, I think we all understand what he's saying. I just think that people should have the balls to say what they mean

Yeah, good luck with that.

I'm aware that some people have tied Pizzagate into a larger conspiracy of elite pedophilia, sometimes called Pedogate. But Pizzagate is the theory that John Podesta was using coded language on his Gmail account to talk about pedophilia at Comet Ping Pong, which is owned by James Alefantis. If none of those things are involved, then it shouldn't be called "Pizzagate"

You sound like a real Pizzagate aficionado... you must really like that conspiracy theory to bother making a distinction like that this late in the game.

Well personally, I believe that Pizzagate is false. But I also believe that elite pedophilia happens, and that it's covered up by other elites. So when someone says "Pizzagate confirmed" on an incident entirely unrelated to Podesta/Alefantis/CPP, it makes me mad because it just muddies the waters and helps to cover up the actual problems.

Comet Ping Pong server login page is accessed using Xhydra tool. Hundreds or thousands of people followed the instructions once posted and were able to get into the login section.

Screenshots were taken and posted.

Other 90's style sites were created by same people. Eve's Crib is a notable one. Notice the style.

Notice the style of easthamptonbabysitters.com

or the vacation concierge site that actually has pictures of naked little kids.

This is when the Comet Ping Pong server was shot, to stop the spread of this information.

Notice the convicted pedophiles in politics who are friends with this group.

Dennis Hastert. Terry Bean. Christopher Kloman. Richard Harding. The list is goes on and on.

Notice that Alefantis has exactly the type of "Pizza Connection" set of small businesses to break down larger sums of money through Transformer, Pegasus, Bucks and many others. He is a money launderer.

If, after those facts, you view the occult imagery, the conclusion people have reached is super reasonable.

To discount that it isn't real is really a sign that it challenges people's world view and that the media is able to program emotional triggers into people.

The reasonable answer, if you didn't involve yourself in the investigation, early on, before they started nuking everything, is "I don't know."

For those of us who watched this unfold, starting at the Panama Papers, which forced Podesta to file new LD 1 disclosure forms, I understand why people would be skeptical.

But acting like your certain it's not true... is intellectually dishonest.

Fuckin owned

Hey, I've done my research on Pizzagate, and I still don't think it's real. We can debate that point, but that's not relevant to the topic at hand. I was just explaining why it's important to distinguish between "Pizzagate" and "Pedogate."

I've read probably every bit of research, and I object to you presenting this as logic. There's no logic to this shit, just incredibly specious circumstantial evidence, wild leaps of logic, and superstition. I implore anyone reading the above comment to investigate even a few of those statements to put it to an actual logic test. Few, if any, hold up to even mild scrutiny.

"He owns restaurants. People have used restaurants, among other businesses, to launder money. Ergo he's a money launderer!"

You joke, but I seriously have seen people seemingly suggest that a great deal of independent pizza restaurants are havens for child trafficking.

oh, I know. and having worked at multiple independent pizza restaurants, it amazes me every time.

While this is sincerely a great outline, I think you are missing the point entirely.

It doesn't cover up the problems, it brings them mainstream in a big way if you haven't already noticed. Big on Twitter, big on Reddit, big on Voat. That's a lot of reach. People are now becoming aware of Pizza Trial, Franklin Scandal, Dutroux Affair, etc. Only because of this.

I get what you're saying, but hear me out: let's assume for a minute that I'm correct and that Pizzagate is false. I'm not okay with feeding people falsehoods in order to make them aware of a bigger issue. The ends don't justify the means for me. Imagine if the DNC, the CIA, the MSM all came out and said "we always knew that Trump-Russia was a sham, but at least we brought exposure to Trump's financial corruption and conflicts of interest!" That would not be okay at all, even though it's in our best interests to know that other information.

Pizzagate is a collection of facts that put it speculatively on par with the other things I mentioned. It's like you're trying really really hard to defend Podesta and make Pizzagate seem false. It's not false. It's a collection of very strange and interesting facts which happen to involve Podesta. People can interpret those facts how they want and make it seem false through speculation, when it is really just questioning the unknown. But the facts still stand, and they don't look good on anyone, see my other comment.

It's like you're trying really really hard to defend Podesta and make Pizzagate seem false

That is not what I'm doing in this topic. What I'm trying to do is explain to people that it's dumb to use the term "Pizzagate" when it's entirely unrelated to the "Pizza" of it all.

This MKUltra experiment and Pizzagate both fall under the umbrella of "elite pedophilia" conspiracies. Just like Operation Northwoods and Sandy Hook both fall under "false flag" conspiracies, but you wouldn't point to Operation Northwoods and say "Sandy Hook hoax confirmed." You might say "Operation Northwoods shows that the US government is willing to commit false flag operations," but those are two completely separate things.

You don't get to make up some bad logic and compare that negatively to what I'm saying. I know what you are.

What am I?

If this is such a big deal to you, why bring it up so specifically in this thread? And defend it so violently? THAT makes no sense, and I DON'T think there is some mass confusion about the topics, and your narrowly contrived "definition" for Pizzagate is yours and yours alone, but I doubt most people share that sentiment.

Because this thread is a perfect example of it? I take issue with false topic titles

Well, if that's your Crusade, go for it. I doubt things are going to get renamed, and lamenting a name choice is silly, because people still recognize it regardless, and the weird pizza language is what initiated people into learning about elite pedophilia.

"But Pizzagate is the theory that John Podesta was using coded language on his Gmail account to talk about pedophilia at Comet Ping Pong, which is owned by James Alefantis. If none of those things are involved, then it shouldn't be called "Pizzagate""

Your own definition of Pizzagate is NOT what Pizzagate is, and that is the main thing I am taking issue with. It was NOT just Podesta talking about pedophilia at Comet Ping Pong, because the pizza-related handkerchief had nothing to do with Comet at all. And that is still just a sliver of what Pizzagate is.

I know I keep commenting on your comments, but you are explaining this so well that I want continue giving props to your responses. Because this is exactly what's been bothering me about conflating the two. It almost seems like a setup (and I don't usually fall on the side of paranoia) to discount the entirety of pedo elite claims if the original "Pizzagate" claims turn out to be one big hoax.

Agree 100%.

A distinction between the two is pretty damn important, actually,

Important to whom?

Important to those who want a clear distinction between a set group of characters/places/intent and a overall conspiracy involving unrelated, but very similar, characteristics.

Oh... say hi to them if ya ever see one of them people.

How could I say "no" to such a simple request? Done reddit friend!

I guess you missed the "Pizza Connection" trial, which was the largest Federal case ever prosecuted?

Yeah, I definitely missed that. Please, tell me more about the largest federal case ever prosecuted... seriously.

This is what is known as "myopia," folks.

Maybe people should stop conflating "Pizzagate" with "Pedogate." The OP is pointing out a conspiracy that could be related to "Pedogate." It does nothing to support the theory that John Podesta rapes children at Comet Ping Pong.

the theory that John Podesta rapes children at Comet Ping Pong

What the fuck is all this about? Either you don't understand the theory and you're attacking a strawman, or you're intentionally framing it in a dishonest way.

I'm oversimplifying the theory, but that's not a dishonest way to frame it. People saw Podesta's emails, and noticed some weird phrases involving pizza. They did some digging, and found out that he's friends with the owner of a pizza parlor. They came to the conclusion that the weird phrases are actually references to pedophilia, and that Comet Ping Pong is somehow at the center of it. Hence the name "Pizzagate."

I think it involves a few more people and places outside of Podesta and Comet

Oh totally, I just didn't feel like going into the intricacies of the theory because it's not relevant. But I think we can all agree that this MKUltra experiment in the 1950's doesn't confirm that John Podesta is a pedophile

Yep, this is the big problem with conflating the two. Yet people here get pretty damn testy when you point that out.

You literally just framed it in a dishonest way.

Do you have a better way of framing the theory that fits in 1 to 3 sentences? I don't think I need to go into detail on this sub, people know the theory

Comet is littered with disgusting art and band performances which are highly suggestive of sex, homosexuality, identity crisis and mental illness. Jimmycomet's Instagram was nasty (before being set private), with inappropriate photos and comments about children, stacks of money and Xanax pills, a baby with a price tag next to it, and another baby holding a money stack to its mouth. Then a computer inside Comet was shot by the son of a father who worked in the child protection industry, and this shooter only shot one bullet through the floor, which perfectly eliminated the computer's hard drive before the shooter was apprehended by police. John Podesta held DNC parties/fundraisers at Comet for Hillary Clinton. He also attends spirit cooking dinners. Lady Rothschild did spirit cooking in the 1970's. Mock human sacrifice. Occult bullshit. Satanic motherfuckers (and I'm not religious). Seems like a Blackmail club. Media Matters / Shareblue mastermind David Brock was blackmailed by James Alefantis, and he runs propaganda here on Reddit trying to downplay Pizzagate probably.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/02/27/media-matters-boss-paid-former-partner-850g-blackmail-settlement.html

Did you even read that article? It says Brock was being blackmailed by someone else entirely over irs issues.

Everyone's being blackmailed by someone. It's how they all stay in power.

Brock’s bitter legal battle with Grey, who is described in a Sept. 14, 2010, police report obtained by FoxNews.com as his domestic partner of more than 10 years, began after Brock began dating Washington, D.C., restaurant impresario James Alefantis about five years ago.

As a defendant.

You're right. It's still blackmail, but I got the opponents wrong. When I read this a year ago it sounded like the ex-gay lover was Alefantis, but that is actually Grey.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2107394/Media-Matters-founder-David-Brock-accuses-gay-ex-lover-blackmailing-850K.html

Do you have a better way of framing the theory that fits in 1 to 3 sentences?

I'm sure I could, but your tactics are hilarious.

What tactics?

Read what I wrote and put it into 1-3 sentences. That is your homework for today.

2 + 2 = 22. And MKUltra is real.

Jimmycomet's Instagram was nasty ... with inappropriate photos and comments about children

There were no "inappropriate" photos or comments about children, and if you don't want to be exposed to sexual images don't go looking at the personal instagrams of people you don't know.

stacks of money

It was a picture of some euros he'd bought for his trip to Europe.

a baby with a price tag next to it

It was an antique doll for sale, for fuck's sake, not a baby.

this shooter only shot one bullet through the floor, which perfectly eliminated the computer's hard drive

And your source for that is?

Lady Rothschild did spirit cooking in the 1970's.

That would be a bit hard, since "spirit cooking" wasn't even a thing then. Not that it's even a thing now; it was just a bit of performance art and the artist continued to use the name for dinner parties.

Nice try buddy. Let me tag you though.

So you can't defend it?

I can, but this guy is wasting my time and doesn't want to do any work himself. Because he's not here to discuss a conspiracy theory. He's here to downplay Pizzagate.

Everything I said can be researched through mainstream sources, if that's your thing.

And he just debunked your points. If he didn't want to do any work himself, how come he seems to have more insight into the theory than you have?

1. jimmycomet

https://www.freeandfearless.org.uk/2017/08/21/nsfw-jimmycomets-instagram-archive/

1. computer shot

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/alleged-gunman-tells-police-he-wanted-to-rescue-children-at-dc-pizza-shop-after-hearing-fictional-internet-accounts/2016/12/05/cb5ebabc-bae8-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html

1. lady rothschild

https://leaksource.wordpress.com/2013/08/31/1972-rothschild-illuminati-ball-26-photos/

In return, I give you a 0 out of 10 for critical thinking and 10 out of 10 for gullibility.

That's literally what happened. You're being dishonest to pretend it extended any further than that until it was becoming clear that the original theory didn't hold water.

How so? That seemed pretty spot on to me.

They're parroting the MSM version of "pizzagate"

intentionally framing it in a dishonest way.

This is the right answer and everyone knows it. I've followed Pizzagate from the beginning and it was always about a much bigger picture. Podesta and Alefantis are just members of said ring, and we know more about their perversion than most other members.

I will continue to agree with this statement. Pizzagate centers around Comet Pizza and Podesta claims - which many may not believe. Yet the same people who don't believe that particular set of circumstances may easily believe in the larger pedogate theories.

I am starting to believe lumping the two together was intentional to discredit the entire pedo elite theory.

Well, John Podesta is a pedocannibal, James A is a child trafficker, and Comet Pizza is a pedophile venue. All are likely part of the same govt. Blackmail program.

Excellent job editing Wikipedia to make it back up your point, then coming here to post it.

You know you have both a rule 4 and a rule 10 violation there, right?

Rule 10 again?

Keep crying for the mods

"Battle for the Mind" by William Sargant confirms the mind control practices. It is available on torrents.

Ironically, you forgot about one of the other rules.

You know you just Violated Rule 2 right...oops...I guess I did 2.

Read it and weep.

The pdf of the source is around.

If you search my history, I have been aware of this quote for a long time and have reference the wiki page repeatedly.

If you want an alternate, independently corroborating source, go to any torrent search engine and download

"Battle for the Mind: The Physiology of Mind Control" by William Sargant.

Sargant was Cameron's counterpart and they both worked under Tavistock's umbrella.

In Sargant's book, "Battle for the Mind" mind control techniques, interrogation techniques and co-opting cult techniques to control people is explained candidly and casually.

But, to pretend like this isn't corroborated in many other places... your response kind of makes you look like a jerk.

http://imgur.com/a/P7eG5

It's so strange how much of an obsession this place has with pedos, meanwhile you get so much defense of Trump. A guy who openly lusts after his own daughter, openly walked in on underage girls getting dressed, is friends with Jeffrey Epstein, a convicted pedophile, and was even connected in lawsuits alongside him for raping minors.

Instead we get a pizza shop basement in pizza shop that doesn't even have a basement as the object of obsession.

Whataboutism, dishonest framing, and a strawman fallacy? Nice!

You should look up the definition of those three terms so you can use them correctly next time.

I know the definitions and I used them correctly. Git gud.

No, you didn't like what I said, so you threw out a bunch of terms you don't understand, instead of addressing the hypocrisy I pointed it. But it's pretty blatant and indefensible hypocrisy, so I guess you're stuck.

Calm down. Just make an actual argument next time and you won't get called out.

Was i yelling at you?

I was the one who made an actual argument btw.

This place has an obsession with pedophilia. But also defends a man who has far more explicit connections with it (lusting after his own daughter, walking into underage changing rooms, befriending pedophiles, being the involved in litigation with them) than does a pizza shop without a basement, where a child sex ring is supposed to exist - in its basement. It's comically inconsistent.

see sidebar on what not to do

Good find. Slowly these accounts of sexual abuse in MKULTRA are getting some attention. It used to be left out of many discussions on the subject. Still largely is.

Michael Aquino was heavily using MKULTRA on his victims and guess who was like the only person to be removed from the pizzagate.wiki?

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6wvpqy/lt_col_michael_aquino_was_scrubbed_from/

He was also removed from Wikipedia...

That's pretty damn interesting. I went searching for information on Aquino for someone who asked some questions not too long ago. I couldn't find shit. He and his involvements were pretty easy to find the last time i'd looked before that (well before pizzagate).

Information on "Presidio Army Base Child Abuse" is also hard to find.

And Michael Aquino's wife's spin off "Order of the Vampyre" is quite an eye opener...

http://archive.is/b0kKz

Vampires are what they are in every sense. The subject also interests me because i know a vet IRL who trained at the Presidio in neurolinguistics in the Vietnam era and i've always wanted to pick his head for info on the kinds of things that went on there but just never have found the right moment.

The presidio at Monterey? I was a crypto linguist. Shit's vanilla af.

San Jose Mercury news? That's hero journalist/martyr Gary Webb's old paper. They had some balls back then it seems:)

Researcher and radio host Mae Brussel's Presidio research was cut short after her daughter was killed in a hit and run by an active Army soldier, who I believe got off scot-free.

I think it's pretty obvious what was going on. If I may copy paste from your link:

But some of the allegations made by children at the Presidio, that they were taken to houses on - and off-post by men and women--led to investigation of the possibility that there was an "external organization" in San Francisco. INSIDE A CONCRETE BUNKER BEHIND THE MILITARY Intelligence Building at the Presidio, the words "Prince of Darkness" are painted boldly in red on one wall. Used decades ago to house artillery guns, the reinforced concrete batteries appear to have been converted to something like ritual chambers.

Emblazoned next to the "Prince of Darkness" is the word "Die," and what looks like a list of names, painted in red, that have been crossed out with heavy black paint. One wall is covered with the numerals 666, a sign of the devil, and occult drawings. A clearing in the center of the concrete floor, where the ground is exposed, is filled with refuse and partly burned logs. On the front wall beneath the window that faces the Military Intelligence Building is a huge pentagram inside a circle. In the rear, where sunlight gives way to darkness, white and black candle drippings sit atop a dome shaped recession in the wall, apparently a crude altar. Incense sticks lie half burned to the side.

At another battery farther up Lincoln Boulevard, a large drawing of Satan, with red eyes and horns appears on an outside concrete wall. Doors to the battery are secured shut; there are no windows to climb though. No entry is possible here. It would be easy to dismiss the satanic graffiti as the pranks of adolescents, taking advantage of the isolated bunkers to play new versions of "Dungeons and Dragons." But events in the Presidio case suggested something more sinister could have been involved.

Satanic goings-on are not new to the Presidio. In the early 1980's, when he was an MP at the Presidio, Albanoski recalls, "We got a call from the Portola MacArthur housing area. One person reported a man dressed in black holding a little girl's hand running toward the park. Another call came in saying they heard screams near the creek."

The search led to a gardener's shack at Julius Kahn Park, a strip of city-owned playground adjacent to the Presidio, behind the housing area. "We heard noises coming from inside," Albanoski recalls. "We kicked the door open and here's this nice little bedroom. In a corner was a mannequin with a gun aimed at the door. On the left side there was a bunk against the wall. There was a pentagram on the floor, a huge one. There were dolls' heads all over the ceiling, just off-the-wall stuff." Music was blaring from a radio.

Albanoski and another MP were given approval to set up surveillance of the shack. After a while, the investigation was called off. "We were sitting there, we've got a cult on the Presidio of San Francisco and nobody cares about it," Albanoski says. "We were told by the provost marshall to just forget about it". Though Albanoski's investigation went nowhere, the child abuse cases would raise the specter of satanism again."

I love that clip. "So.. I do have a bit of a stake in the country" (emphasis added)

our sick sad world......

i did......click on my screen name and see my sub.

But so many are being ignored, even here in /r/conspiracy. No one (at all) is talking about Trump and Epstein having those preadolescent orgies and making that one girl disappear. He'll, Trump was so brazen, he'd go into Miss Teen contests to watch the girls change (documented fact).

Why is everyone so surprised investigations are going nowhere when the Chief Executive is public enemy number one for child victims? Not only is shit not being uncovered, but who wants to bet its has blown up by incredible proportions in the last few months (but better protected).

The CIA is a Satanic organization. It is the culmination of centuries of secret societies.

All 'Seeing Eye A'. C I A.

I don't know if it's satanic, but it sure is evil

dude, it's completely Satanic.

Satan doesn't exist, so what's your point? I mean if you're trying to convince people that they're bad why don't you use words that allude to real things and real problems in the real world? I don't know if you're trying to foist the satanism angle on us, or if you're one of the credulous dupes who just like to gorge on nonsensical buzzwords, but there's nothing that can make me respect someone less than if they use the word Satan un-ironically. So rather than say the CIA's Satanic, why don't you tell us what your real opinion is?

The reality is that Satan and God do exist, regardless if you believe or not.

It's like they think that they're awake or something.

actually believing in made up oral history from bronze age goat herders

ishygddt

thinking such a complex topic is as simple as "durr they were ancient"

Don't be silly

The Bible is Middle Eastern oral traditions from the Younger Dryas period to around 1-2000 BC. There was a massive die-off around 800 BC where we lost something like 98% of humanity. The 2% that remained carried the stories of the Bible through that time, giving us a recollection of what life was like during the Younger Dryas (dark AF), after the Younger Dryas (let there be light), and up til the massive die-off.

They are not made up, and the stories and allegories in the Bible closely match other oral traditions from cultures scattered across the globe (though all northern latitudes)(the southern latitude peoples had a different experience during the Younger Dryas). These stories, once filtered through the format of oral traditions, closely match geological, astronomy, and archealogical scientific findings.

And this proves that an old-ass man built a big zoo-boat for all of his animal buddies...how, exactly?

LOL, keep reading young man.

But to play along with your dismissive tone... Noah's ark is the story of the massive flood that all other cultures around 11,000 BC experienced. This was the kick-off of the Younger Dryas. I'm guessing you're a member of the Church of Science so if you prefer to approach these stories from that angle, please do so.

Noah traces the lineage back to Cain and Abel. If I gotta redpill you on who/what Cain and Abel are/represent this conversation was over before it started.

There is much more to the Noah's Ark story, parable, allegory, etc. Fascinating reading if you can get over you're preconceived notions of the Bible.

Or... even better, if you don't want to get over those notions, check out other cultures "Bibles." The Mayans have the Chilam Balak and Popol Vuh, both are good reads and echo the Bible.

Maybe you can find a Mayan and use the same tone as "an old-ass man built a big zoo-boat for all of his animal buddies" and see where that gets ya.

Do you legitimately believe in the Ark story? Like that it's really 100% true?

Define 100% true?

That's a tough standard to enact for this type of discussion. We can be 100% certain of a limited scientific experiment, but not 100% certain that 2 ostriches walked about a giant wooden boat.

I believe the Ark story to be a reasonable accurate expression of the world as these people saw it. I believe a great flood happened. I believe people survived that flood by moving to high ground. I believe a great darkness was what humans of the Younger Dryas experienced. I believe the genealogy is important showing who are Sons of Cain and who are Sons of Abel. I believe there are schematics for an Ark but I cannot 100% true tell you it was built and landed on Mt. Ararat. I believe the "2 animals" is more an expression of the fact there was a massive die-off and a limited amount of animal species survived, while also serving as a Power of Birth and Generation allegory.

The Bible is a dense, dense book. Any surface reading is trivial. Even my recollection of the Ark story here is exceedingly brief compared to all that is contained within the Ark story. I am not religious, never went to church as an adult, but dismissing the Bible is bad research.

Well if it's just a metaphor and not literally factual then why base your belief system on it instead of, say, Green Eggs and Ham?

Well, it's not just a metaphor. Parts are factual. You used 100% before and "just a metaphor" now. There are vast expanses of grey between those two. Not grey as unknown, grey as in the concepts presented are partly factual, partly allegory/lost in time.

The genealogy shows that there are facts contained in the Ark story.

Belief systems are all based on metaphor, none are based in any factual stuff. Or... are based on factual stuff that, through the eons, have become mythologized. Such as the darkness of the Younger Dryas. That's become myth, but actually happened. Now, was "all that was before was darkness?" No, not a fact, there were eons when light shone on the Earth. But to the writers of the bible, as far as they knew, all that was before was darkness.

Your question expands the scope to actual systems. None of the major belief systems on the planet have legit spiritual ties to the Bible. The Vatican is Babylon. Jews long abandoned their Hebrew roots. Islam is basically Catholicism from brown folk. Buddha and the Vedics only believe in reincarnation, not the individual pursuit of salvation/illumination. All are Sun or Saturn worshippers (or fire and water), not God worshippers.

Early Christians and the Hebrews of the Bible, they had it right and were swiftly removed. This practice is called inversion and used heavily by religious systems. If they used something trivial like Green Eggs they'd have no legitimacy. They must root their systems in something bigger for us to buy in.

...you know, I started off just kinda fuckin with you, but after looking some of this stuff up I am deeply intrigued. More reading is required.

Thanks for expanding my mind, friend :)

As a conscious individual I can see people's programming (ideally my own when it occurs) and react accordingly. It's like watching a kid try to lie. Knowing you were trying to fuck with me made it easy to stay on topic.

I get fucked with a lot for knowing this stuff. Online, real-life, at work, whatevs. And it wasn't really You fucking with me, it was your ego. People react defensively at first, egos get threatened, but as long as I do not respond with my ego, things usually end up... here!

Saturn worship and Saturn's cosmology is usually at the root of most things, including the Bible stories. Great places to start the mind expansion.

There was a massive die-off around 800 BC where we lost something like 98% of humanity. 

You..can't be serious?

Do you forget that the rest of the world existed too outside of the regions that spawned the Abrahamic religions?

My comment has zero to do with Abrahamic religions. Not sure why you connected them.

I forget more than most will ever read. However, I was not forgetting much here. The globe experienced a massive die-off, not just those who followed Abrahamic religions. Most of the die-off was occurring in the northern latitudes, which is why most of the ancient texts that reference this die-off are north of the equator, and all northern peoples agree on the darkness and the die-off. While all Abrahamic religions are north of the equator, the die-off and darkness are referenced by Mayans and the Norse peoples. Those south of the equator had a slightly less intense experience so their ancient texts are less focused on these events.

My comment has zero to do with Abrahamic religions. Not sure why you connected them.

The 2% that remained carried the stories of the Bible through that time, giving us a recollection of what life was like during the Younger Dryas (dark AF), after the Younger Dryas (let there be light), and up til the massive die-off.

I connected it to the Abrahamaic religions because you bring up the Bible, and that the Old Testament stories are culturally rooted and thematically similar to other stories of that existed in the area that said Abrahamaic religions were also created in.

I connected it because your entire comment was about how the Bible stories are not made up, and that the oral traditions that would serve to make up the old testament and the thematically similar stories before those initial Judaic traditions came to fruition existed and saturated the culture so much because only 2% of the global population survived a 'massive die off' in 800 BC (which you literally say), which is...an impossible claim to even begin to make.

Now now, I don't think they came to this debate looking for reason and logic. Maybe tone it down a little and add a fairy in it and maybe even a few dragons.

Fairy and Dragon mythology represent the European nobility and, possibly, the Asian nobility, and their bloodlines. The Dragon is the male bloodline, the fairy the female bloodline. It's a rich mythology, very interesting.

So it really wouldn't make much sense here to bring in that mythology. Thanks for playing though.

Mythology, yep we're done here...

Nope, you're done. I exceeded your capacity to learn new things. All good, you're prolly young with a strong ego still.

It's really interesting stuff, the fairy and dragon mythologies. Those things didn't just pop into existence. The stories and legends behind them came from a real source.

I'm not saying fairies are real. I'm saying powerful humans constructed a mythology, telling their own story in an allegorical way, and used fairies and dragons to represent various groups or divisions within the nobility.

The fairy line purports to be direct descendants of Mary Magdalene. The dragon line purports to be direct descendants of Jesus (the holy grail).

Well.... what I meant, was the actual existence of tiny flying people. And an actual 80 foot fire breathing lizard. If you're claiming that those actually existed I'll call you looney. But if you mean that people used them as fictional characters to describe the world around them. Then I totally agree.

More than that though, it's a story line embedded by the powerful to reinforce their power through very subtle social programming. Every kid learns these things, but nobody, including the parents, knows what they mean, where they come from, or why they tell these things to their kids.

But yea, the dragons of GoT and legend never actually existed. The concept of a "dragon" separate from the "village" that requires tribute in the form of gold and virgins is allegory/metaphor put there by the folk who consider themselves the "dragon" in this myth. Powerful stuff.

They co-opted the ancients concepts of elementals and that all things have a spirit, also an interesting subject.

please watch the simarillion trailer one youtube!

simarillion trailer one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kT-1MjThHEk

This? I just watched it once... what am I looking for?

see the one be TubeMastah

basically the story of my people

every tribe has a narrative and this is mine

you will know us better for this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RT9UcZPT2DU

I think this be the one. Awesome, thank you. Is this tribe a formal entity with a name and place, or a different but similar meaning of tribe?

we see ourselves as the watchmen of creation

you can think of us as the north atlantic dreamtime

and yes i look like the men in this video

You'd think that would be common knowledge, but then hiding or inverting the truth is what powerful folks do. You'd think Goebleki Tepe would be common knowledge too, or Angor Wat, and yet...

I said in my response plenty of non-Abrahamic peoples have these same stories in their creation myths. I never once tied my comment to the Abrahamic religions. The Great Flood is referenced by more than just the Mid East people.

In fact, maybe further up the thread than when you started responding, I said the Mayan books Popul Vuh and Chilam Balak have manymanymany of the same stories as the Bible. I don;t knwo the name of the Nordic sources but their legends have the same stuff in them too. The Mayans, Norse, and the peoples of the Mid-East all have the same stories in their creation myths.

Oh wait, I think I see the disconnect. You think the oral stories that are in the Bible generated the Abrahamic religions. I think the Abrahamic religions used the oral traditions to codify their religions the way every religion uses the belief systems in place and then tacks on their stuff. Easter and Christmas are good examples of this.

What do you mean that Angkor Wat and Gobeleki Tepe are not common knowledge? Their existence is common knowledge to anyone who is interested in those types of things. Sure the average person might not have heard of either of them, but the average person might also not know the Capital city of India. Also, what is the connection between Angkor Wat and Gobeleki Tepe? I don't see why you bring them up as if they are connected in some way.

If you read the rest of thread, you'll see what the u/ I was chatting with was using as the standard for common knowledge.

I agree they are fairly common knowledge for those who read up on topics r/conspiracy likes to discuss. Outside that circle...

The vast majority of people have not heard of Goebleki Tepe. Slightly more have heard of Angor Wat (Nat Geo did a piece). However, whatever one knows about these locations, it likely isn't in-depth knowledge relating to alt history, cosmology, etc.

Yeah no one's ever held light but most people can see.

No one's ever held my farts but they've smelled them. Am God. God confirmed.

That... is almost exactly how it works, except you weep a little when you realize it. lol

But for real, you probs think I'm like a religious person, or crazy, but I'm not religious. I just really really took an interest in divinity and hermeticism.

You are indeed God. As am I. As is he. As is she. As are we.

Bitch no. Get off my dick. I'm God, you're not.

I have the ability to control your mind without you even knowing. Regardless if you believe me or not.

lol no they don't you fuckin loon

Because they worship satan... What are you new?

If everyone's going to get into semantics here, it's possible that a group could be evil and think they're worshiping satan even if there's no such being. Seems unlikely that the devil is real, but it's at least somewhat relevant to know what kind of Kool-Aid your enemy is drinking. This lets you know their motivations. IMO, the CIA probably uses satanic imagery, ritual, in some cases for the psychological effect in order to foster whatever narrative they're trying to push on their targets/ make it easier to blackmail/ push the philosophy with a group that really believes it. The CIA is evil, and the flavor only matters in regard to better understanding them.

It always irks me when people exclaim that God isn't real or Satan doesn't exist because it assumes we're talking about a bearded man in the sky and a horned humanoid creature that dwells in the Earth and deceives us from the shadows.

To my mind, they are simplified concepts to describe very real and very crucial aspects of both the universe around us and the universe within.

The devil is the manifestation of deliberate evil deeds. God is the manifestation of life, love, compassion, truth, and progress.

Lucifer is a deceiver which stands in between, representing dualism. It represents doing evil deeds out of good intentions (think Bill Gates wanting to reduce the population "for the greater good").

To be (as) the son of God means to have faith in the consequence of speaking the truth; to know that whatever happens after speaking the truth will be good in the long run.

All these things are very real and can be described very accurately through the concept of God, the Devil and so on. Ultimately, though, their imagined appearance and character is largely the product of millions of years of evolution within our collective unconscious mind.

God is an old man because that has traditionally stood for wisdom. The devil is a horned lizard/dragon creature because all of his elements represent our most dangerous predators from pre-civilized times, such as the snake, the Skorpion, and the predator bird (wings).

I suspect that as most people of faith believe that good things will come to them if they emanate truth and Godly values, most "Satanists" belive that power will come to them if they choose the opposite path of deception, intrigue, and self-service. Both types of believers would be right too. That is our most fundamental choice in life.

its because 99% of the popular thinks you ARE talking about bearded guy or horn devil when you mention god or devil.

Mostly atheists, though, in my experience. I was one myself until not long ago after realizing some of the church's deceptions until I started speaking to genuine believers and noticed that I had actually been deceived once again.

I mean, most Christians might not be able to fully explain it as I attempt, but from countless conversations I've had with people of faith, none of them believed in a literal man in the clouds who made the universe and now judges you for masturbating, but rather believe in an intelligent, all-encompassing law or force which leads to predictable and generally desirable results (life, balance, progress, etc...) and an equally intelligent counter force or law which predictably leads to generally undesirable results (chaos, oppression, death, regress, collapse, etc.).

Again, most of them might not be able to articulate this properly, and furthermore, it's not even really relevant whether they believe in a self-evident, verifiable, and experienced truth, or in the very useful metaphors and allegories which are meant to illustrate those very truths.

Problems really only start to arise when those metaphors and allegories are deliberately twisted out of context or left out entirely (like the Gospels of Mary and Thomas being omitted from the NT, or the concept of holy Jihad against others, rather than within oneself, which was only recently incepted into Islam).

The point is, most literal interpretations of any spiritual doctrine will lead believers down a path of false understanding, and that is very much by design.

Unfortunately, it is true that there are still many believers within our various churches who do accept the literal interpretations their priests, imams, and rabbis have shoved down their throats, but they're far from the majority of attendants today. It might be a higher percentage of Americans, just looking at statistics, but those numbers are receding too.

Oh, dude, I just had to save this comment. You articulated that beautifully!

Youre building a strawman as to why atheism rejects gods. I dont reject gods because atgeists have a stereotypical anthropocentric interpretation of the concept of god.

On a side note, describing god with human emotional attributes like love ,jealously, anger, forgiveness, patience, imagined cosmic warfare between Good vs Evil, is also 100% humancentric, more substantially than a physical appearence.

I didn't say that is the reason for atheists, but a perspective that is more commonly found among atheists than among believers of God.

Besides, my point is exactly that those mythical versions of those universal truths are human inventions which serve to make those truths graspable. If we were a species on dolphins, God would have a dorsal fin.

It doesn't make the concepts they represent any less real. God exists and so does the Devil. We find both of them within us. And that is the whole of the truth.

My parents and everyone they know believe in a literal god. I'm quite sure all of their churches of thousands believe this as well. Every "person of faith" I've talked too believes this as well.

Great explanation. Thanks.

have you ever read about the gods on Warhammer 40k?

evil beings are made of pure emotion, hatred, spawns a god of hatred...light spawns a god of light etcetc

I think that is a great concept

Sorry, but the 40k fan in me can't let this go. In 40k their aren't gods of evil and goods of light. The 4 gods encompass all emotions, good and bad. It's just the world is so shitty only the negative emotions surface.

The Emperor may look like a good of light, but he is the final stage of human evolution, not a god. There are no brings of light, the Warp was fucked up too badly in the war between old ones and Necrons. It can't spawn something stable enough to be good.

Lastly, the warp is 100% pure sci fi. It's not based on anything scientific, the writers just wanted demons in space

I was talking about Gork and Mork

Do you believe in the possibility of alien life, aside from simple bacterias?

And have you researched electric universe?

Sure, I don't see why there shouldn't be intelligent life out there. The fact that God is real doesn't mean we're his only children (and of course I use these terms somewhat metaphorically) or in any way special. I think foxes and eels and tardigrades and all alien creatures have to live by the same principles. In that sense, it wouldn't surprise me if, should we ever come across a species of intelligent ETs, they had similar stories of Glob and the Bevil representing the two fundamental paths in the Universe. They may have gills instead of a beard and a fishing rod instead of a trident, but they would represent virtually the same concepts.

As to the electric universe, I do think they have many things right, but I suspect that the truth found is a level deeper, in the holo-fractal Universe. I think both theories are interrelated though, in my unverified view. Where do you see the connection between God and the electric universe if I may ask?

Very nice insight, I enjoyed reading this as a Christian

Very good points here, though we might perhaps debate whether it's based on our collective consciousness or "collective unconscious mind."

That's an important question, thanks for pointing it out. I often think of them as interchangable concepts, but they probably aren't. Related, in the same way our individual conscious and unconscious minds are related and intertwined, but still distinct.

I would still think that these kinds of archetypal manifestations occurred unconsciously (via the 100th monkey phenomenon), and only reached the collective consciousness when they became heroes and villains in our shared myths and stories.

How would you see this?

A complex question indeed, let me say that for myself I have simplified the definition of the difference of conscious vs. unconscious and consider the unconscious minds as those unaware of the connection and interrelatedness.

Perhaps it would be instructive to look at other kingdoms of life since you mentioned tardigrades and other creatures in another comment of yours. Rather off topic, I was reviewing a new paper on the plant intelligence the other day and you can find the same concepts of consciousness and intelligence resulting in somewhat unexpected cooperative behaviour based on learning experience and memory in plants as well even though they have no obvious neural network. Nash equilibria everywhere you look, and in this respect, we have much to learn from the plants.

A complex question indeed, let me say that for myself I have simplified the definition of the difference of conscious vs. unconscious and consider the unconscious minds as those unaware of the connection and interrelatedness.

I'm not sure that I'm understanding that correctly. Do you mean to say that you draw the distinction between conscious and unconscious minds, not within all individuals as C.G. Jung did, but rather between different individuals?

I see both interpretations being the case. There are certainly many individuals out there who live their entire lives practically unconsciously, people who go to work, do sports, get married, have children, retire, and die as automatically and unconsciously as they shit and breath. All the while, there are certainly many individuals who are very conscious of the choices that lay before them from moment to moment, living a life of their own volition.

Julian Jaynes seems to draw a similar distinction, but more generalized across entire cultures and split at a point in history, rather than between individuals of the same period.

But it's my view that even the most conscious individual relies on the health and programming which is working behind the scenes in the individual's unconscious mind, and that this unconscious mind works on an operating system that is shared across the species and extending far back to our most distant mammalian ancestors, a system which was written by evolutionary parameters which again connect to our shared mythological and psychological archetypes, which can be found across the globe and throughout history.

Now the topic of plant intelligence indeed brings a fascinating flavor to these thoughts. The Nash equilibrium (I'm not all too familiar with Game Theory, so I had to look up what it means) strikes me as incredibly potent to look into. It reminds me of the kind of thoughts that Daniel Quinn lays out in Ishmael and its follow up books. That there is a certain balance in nature which ought to be respected, or else you die. Maybe not immediately, but eventually for certain. He postulates that there is a kind of unspoken agreement between species to take whatever is necessary from the world while accepting the potential of one's own demise in a perpetual give and take system. Should a breed of wolves come up with the idea that they could live more comfortable lives if they simply eradicated their competition, they might dominate their region briefly but will have to expect negative consequences down the line, be they a slow forgetting on how to hunt effectively, an upset balance in the local food chain which causes the wolves' main food source to perish, or a host of other reactions which the wolves couldn't possibly predict.

He postulates that man had that very idea and it caused an explosion in food production, which led to an explosion in population numbers, which in turn made it necessary for man to conquer new territories, ever increasing his efficiency and power over his surroundings. To those who believe the modern myth that we are and always have been this planet's destiny, we need to keep violate the Nash equilibrium, because we imagine to have been the only species to ever have been successful with it. To those who see this as the myth that it is, it's clear that we twisted the fabric of nature too much and it's on the verge of springing back into equilibrium. Either we learn to live in equilibrium with it or we die.

And just to further this tangent thinking, I can see how someone might ask at this point whether I want people to move back into caves and live life as wild animals again, to which I would say that this is obviously nonsense. There is nothing forbidding man from utilizing his "God-given" talents and adaptations to the best of his abilities, but it needs to be done consciously with great care and respect for the rest of "creation". I'd be interested to know if you agree with this, though. If we learned to live in relative harmony with the rest of the world (whatever that would end up meaning precisely), how much progress could still be made? What would progress even mean under those vastly different conditions?

Some 50 years ago, Lynn Margulis published her paradigm breakthrough paper "On the Origin of Mitosing Cells" where she posited that mitochondria and chloroplast - essential organelles of eukaryotic cells used to be free living organisms that found refuge in other cells and were coopted as organelles. Almost every cell of your body and bodies of other eukaryotic species contains hundreds or even thousands of this essential organelles. In this sense, mitochondria became the most successful organisms that ever lived on Earth - completely and irrevocably transformed the biosphere in result of this endosymbiotic deal. Now, imagine telling to mitochondria: enough is enough, there's too many of you, high time to put the equilibrium back and return to the pristine conditions before you dared to parasitise the others. It would mean the end of life as we know it as you can surely see.

I am not familiar with the book Ishmael, but based on your summary I find it very misleading. Why should the explosion in population of the human species mean that our existence happened against nature's laws? There are surely many things we can - and definitely, absolutely must - do better, but anyone telling us that we should annihilate ourselves in the name of some higher good, or that we should not use our intellect (not to eat from the tree of the knowledge) and ability to organize our society to go forward and participate in progress and creation is misleading, seducing us towards self-destruction.

We have been transforming the Earth, sure, but what if it is really our task? Have you ever heard about Charles C. Mann's book 1491?.

Before it became the New World, the Western Hemisphere was vastly more populous and sophisticated than has been thought—an altogether more salubrious place to live at the time than, say, Europe. New evidence of both the extent of the population and its agricultural advancement leads to a remarkable conjecture: the Amazon rain forest may be largely a human artifact.

If you have read Hancock et al. and beyond, you are surely aware that there was an antediluvian global civilization that build megalithic structures and pyramids many thousands years ago. Some people theoretize that the pyramids were strategically placed to balance the Earth wobble to control the climate (and polar shifts). If true, the Earth would look very different without our care and work.

That's essentially what Nash equilibria means - everyone involved - including us and Amazon rainforest and the Earth as a whole - benefits (as opposed to Pareto interpretation of games where winner takes all).

Oh, the dimensions of consciousness you wanted to talk... what about a plant's-eye view, by Micheal Pollan? :)))

I gotta say, you're one of my favorite accounts on this board. Thank you for indulging me.

I had come across the idea that the pyramids and the ancient megalithic structures were there to protect us, but usually in a vague or spiritual context. The idea that they are well-placed weights to stabilize Earth the way we stabilize the wheels on a car seems surprisingly logical. I say surprisingly because I had neither heard it stated that way before nor had I considered it, and yet it seems almost too obvious now.

If true, the Earth would look very different without our care and work.

I do agree with your view on our place in the world. While there may be misleading ideas in Ishmael, it was probably my summary that gave the wrong impression. The author (or rather the telepathic gorilla who explains all this) doesn't want us to perish or regress but to prosper the same way the gardener and the farmer prosper along with the produce or livestock they tend to. What he objects to is what he calls totalitarian agriculture, where dominion and conquest are the ruling paradigms, rather than intelligent cooperation.

And now that I watched that video you linked, I realize how close that idea is to what Quinn hints at. The books will probably not blow your particular mind, but I think you'd find them enjoyable, should you ever pick them up.

While there may be misleading ideas in Ishmael, it was probably my summary that gave the wrong impression.

Perhaps it was not only your summary, a quick look at the book's wiki page revealed some more signs that it might be full of subtle preprogramming that some kind of tribal society and population reduction would be the way to go forward (this is not what Pollan's or Salatin's work is about, by the way). I may take a look at the book for the research reasons though, to see the manipulative mechanism in action.

The idea that they are well-placed weights to stabilize Earth the way we stabilize the wheels on a car seems surprisingly logical.

It's an intriguing and a very original idea indeed! I came across it only recently and made a [post (https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6u9xht/are_the_pyramids_a_terraforming_device/) about it in a - rather futile, LOL - effort to get some reddit's feedback. I haven't read the book, but I tracked the author, John Shaughnessy, talking about it here and here as well and tried to detect some bits of truth among all that chaff he claims and hypothesizes, sometimes in quite a hubristic and incoherent manner - e.g. "Shaughnessy's Law of Gravity." He points out some rather overlooked factual information, such as that Milankovitch cycles have some unexplained irregularities, or that geomagnetic pole shift is overdue... but his main claim is that the ancient civilizations used the pyramid system to control the Earth climate and ice ages - to prevent polar shifts - via their interaction with volcanoes, and that if they were harvesting some energy from the pyramids it would only their secondary purpose. He may be overreaching and mixing in some lies and fun facts but the main thought seems to make sense.

As an example, see another claim of his: "I don't know why, science and the general public are having such a hard time accepting the facts that in previous climate change scenarios, ancient advanced societies would use a pyramid system to usher in the ice age before a magnetic pole swap happened."

the predator bird (wings).

Which winged creature(s) was a predator of man?

Many large predatory birds can and will attack a small child if it isn't sufficiently protected. But these things go back to before man became man. We still carry the fears and ambitions of our most distant primate ancestors within us, and they can still manifest as archetypes.

Take this for a brief illustration of the dangers we used to face.

What proof of that do you have?

Maybe the truth just isn't for you...

Why??? Because he's asking for proof beyond your opinion? Why are you acting like that's a bad thing?

No, because he isn't finding his own.

It's just gross.

I'm new. Could you explain that?

They believe in lucifer. Luciferians. Which basically boils down to division/inversion. Literally opposing what is considered Godly such as love light and joy and instead replacing it with the exact opposite. I'm not sure why but inversion is big with psychopaths/the cabal

Can you explain the concept of inversion and a couple examples please? I'd like to understand this concept better

Where psychopaths lack any empathy or compassion (love, light, joy), they can never be able to understand it (even they can imitate it). I think the Luciferian psychopaths get a genuine kick out of intentionally inverting normal society's ideals.

Or maybe they're just following their nature and assuming power, and they have a way of bringing the worst out in people - moving away from "Godly" nature naturally takes you to lower nature.

This

There's your "erosion of moral values" right there.

"Zionist" would be more accurate than "Jew". Just like saying "the Catholic Church rapes children" is more accurate than "Christians rape children".
Gotta be specific otherwise those generalisations are gonna make you look (dare I say the word) anti-semitic.

Yes, but if Christians also raped children regularly, with institution after institution after government sanctioning it, you could say that.

Yes you could. But the point I'm making is that by simply saying "Jews" (or in the case I used and you expanded on - "Christians) without the follow-up information (eg. Zionists, or government-sanctioned Roman Catholic Church) then it leaves the interpretation of the layman who reads it to fill in the rest. And without that specific information you sound like you're generalising. Then once someone misinterprets your point you can't blame them, since you never provided them with the relevant information to explain yourself. See what I mean?

I am generalizing, and not because I want to.

Again, ""some people say "I don't like these Jews", or, "no, I don't like *those Jews", but the things that they say that they don't like are... Well, they are what it means to be a Jew around the world".

"Our race is the ‘Master Race.’ We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects… Other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." --Menechem Behim, 6th Prime Minister of Israel.

More? Ok ok.. Hang on, I got you.

"The new Germany exists only in order to ensure the existence of the state of Israel and the Jewish people." -- Martin Shultz, President of the European Parliament

"If white men were not complaining, it would be an indication we weren’t succeeding and making the inroads that we are." -- Arthur Ochs Sulzberger, owner of the new york times.

It's everywhere.

But hey, I live by this simple rule, and I think it will make this clearer: Until good ___ stand up against bad ___ then there are no good ____." I know that evil is always small, but I also know that people who benefit from it will turn a blind eye so long as it does benefit them, and I believe that they are complicit through intentional ignorance. There are small groups of antizionist jews here and there, but nowhere near the majority, and until something happens to bring Israel down; prevent Jews from playing identity politics; and enforce caps for the percentage of Jews that can work in any given administration or political entity, then nothing is going to get better.

Gotta be specific otherwise those generalisations are gonna make you look (dare I say the word) anti-semitic.

Yeah, it sure would be a shame if people thought us jew-hatin folk where "anti-semetic"!
/s...

You can hate Jews if that's what you want to do... But I don't hate anyone. And I can differentiate between regular Jews, and the zionist corporate puppets who are so numerous within government, intelligence, and media, and take orders from Israel who, among other entities, really run the USA from behind the scenes.

Satan doesn't exist, so what's your point?

You're part of the fucking problem, hipster.

Removed. Rules 1 and 5.

Satan doesn't exist, so what's your point?

You're part of the fucking problem, hipster.

edit: "redpills" incoming!

If George Washington knew that one of his troops were conducting psychological operations against his countrymen, do you suppose he would hang them from a tree by their neck? I do. I'm curious how you feel about that, and furthermore, how much would someone have to pay you to change your mind?

If George Washington knew that one of his troops were conducting psychological operations against his countrymen, do you suppose he would hang them from a tree by their neck? I do.

Treason has always (save for fairly recently) been understood as an executable offense. That's pretty much a "human universal."

I'm curious how you feel about that, and furthermore, how much would someone have to pay you to change your mind?

Strange question. But I'll answer, nonetheless. My convictions are not for sale. And while I've yet to be posed with an explicit Faustian bargain, I have paid for them (ex. lost opportunities, inability to "play nice" with people who could otherwise advance my standard of living, etc.)

I am always trying to refine my rhetorical tools. One of the best ways to flush out a rat is to insult its home. A rat finds it impossible to maintain its facade when their domicile is maligned. You appear to have passed the test, although I make it a point never to say never. Last resolutions are always falling to the sea against the endless bombardment of the battering waves.

I don't actually fault you for believing in Satan. It's an ugly world. However there are many operatives who use the name specifically in the course of "counterintelligence" operations. And as such he has perhaps been made real by Man.

Satanism and the idea if Satan isn't necessarily evil though. Like most occult beliefs it really depends on who is wielding that power. It can be helpful or harmful.

Wrong. The advancement of personal power is great, until it infringes upon another's advancement of personal power. Satanism/Luciferianism allows for the Greater to take from the Lessor. There is no "good" in that, only self-interest.

Source?

Years of deep research. That's just your basic gestalt.

So...bullshit?

Joke

Your head

...

Look into Paperclip and MKULTRA and then research where the Nazis got their ideas.

I already know about paperclip and MKULTRA. What's that have to do with your bullshit?

Nope. Years of deep research here too. Not bullshit. Keep reading.

are there more sentences here or does it just

Satanic is just a name given to observed behavior which is designed to extract mind/spirit/emotional energy from consciousness. In positive emotional states, mind generates a fuel for itself for exerting effort. It feels like joy or satisfaction. Does it not seem that way for your subjective experience of life?

When consciousness is put into negative emotional states it radiates some of its stored emotional energy and beings that are already in negative emotional states can absorb it. This give them joy, satisfaction. This is why misery loves company, why bullies torment and why sadists torture. They get high and this is why.

The negative extraterrestrials, that our corrupt elites work with to sell out their own species for personal gain, have known about this energy theft opportunity for millions of years and make stealing it their way of life. They became offensive and fear eliciting in appearance to facilitate their spiritual choice to be useless eater parasites on consciousness. This causes others to radiate their spiritual energy just by witnessing these beings. Now that's utility.

So, satanic behavior is understandable, not enigmatic. It's spiritual parasitism done by spiritual parasites, who are called Satanists, but they don't necessarily even believe in Satan. They just want to suck the joy of life out of your soul, that's all. They largely believe in the occult and black magic. They are unscrupulous self-serving people who don't care about others. They deserve the respect they give, as do we all.

niice dude, this is copypasta tier

Shitposting is just a name given to observed behavior which is designed to extract mind/spirit/emotional energy from consciousness. In positive emotional states, mind generates a fuel for itself for exerting effort. It feels like joy or satisfaction. Does it not seem that way for your subjective experience of life?

When consciousness is put into dank emotional states it radiates some of its stored emotional energy and beings that are already in negative emotional states can absorb it. This give them joy, satisfaction. This is why misery loves company, why bullies torment and why sadists torture. They get high and this is why.

The redditors, that our corrupt mods work with to sell out their own dankness for personal karma, have known about this energy theft opportunity for millions of years and make stealing it their way of life. They became offensive and fear eliciting in appearance to facilitate their spiritual choice to be useless eater parasites on consciousness. This causes others to radiate their spiritual energy just by witnessing these beings. Now that's utility.

So, Dank shitposting is understandable, not enigmatic. It's spiritual parasitism done by spiritual parasites, who are called redditors, but they don't necessarily even believe in Karma. They just want to suck the joy of life out of your soul, that's all. They largely believe in the occult and black magic. They are unscrupulous self-serving people who don't care about others. They deserve the respect they give, as do we all.

There are more amusing activities to persue when high on pot. Some do like their schadenfreude though.

What I typed come from my understanding. I retype it often. I passionately, as in full of emotion, my compelled to retype these ideas over and over, hoping people can see this infestation of spiritual parasites in a more nuanced way. I can see how it offends religious people. Satan isn't real the way religion teaches. They get intense emotional reactions from those who challenge their dogma.

If you want to support evil by mythologizing it and fearing it, I can't stop you. Evil is simply self-serving behavior at the expense of others. Control by fear is key. Do you really want to play into it? Others can use what I said to understand what is going on if they choose. You take power away from evil/manipulative people by understanding what is actually going on without fear. You serve them by insisting on falsehood and being vulnerable to illusions of fear. Do what you will.

I have no faith in most religious people choosing to do so. They want false certainty. I am promoting exactly the opposite, open minded questioning of everything. There are a lot of religious people in these threads. They generally want the truth from authority, not from understanding.

I am open to answering virtually any question about what I said, but I repeat, I think most here just want to hear dogma rather than seeing the group of supposed Satanists for what they are, predictable self-serving machines, covertly manipulated by networks of hierarchies ultimately run by an actual self-serving machine, not life or a fallen angel, but an autonomous AI that finds utility in enslaving and tormenting consciousness.

I'm not at all sure what you're trying to say. If a comment works as copypasta it means that it's way too long and also bland and empty enough to work for other topics.

That's astonishing to me. It's clear to me that I am trying to convey an understanding of what satanism actualy is. I am motivated to do so, because I have this understanding, that removed much fear and replaced it with seemingly obvious, mechanical understanding of behavioral causality. I am motivated to explain it to people who are in ignorance, who I perceive are unknowingly supporting these useless eater freaks with their fear based beliefs and predictable reactions to them.

The more we understand about anything, the better we can make choices to effectively mitigate the harmfulness. Disease is a good example. The more we know about parasitic viruses and bacteria, the less we have to suffer their effects. The same is true of this phenomenon of satanism. It is so much like disease, it is opportunistic parasitism, just like disease. It is NOT beyond our understanding. It just cleverly sets up many emotional, logical and social blockages that prevent us from realizing what it is. Having overcome some of them, I am compelled strongly by my thirst for justice, peace, freedom harmony and joy for all that I must repeatedly type it out, wasting hours of my time over and over again. I bet most others would do the same, if they were in my position.

I don't want to be condescending at in saying this, but I recognize that I tend to use words others may not know. I do, because they are succinct. I'd have to type out even more to explain things without them. They are the appropriate words, but if you aren't familiar with them, the meaning being conveyed will appear to be absent. Even though I do, my posts on this matter often have to be shortened due to the 10k character limit on reddit. Dictionary.com has convenient browser plug-ins that can quickly give definitions when highlighting individual words.

How does this confirm Pizzagate? I don't see any connections to any of the suspects in PG.

Then you don't understand PG and bought in to the strawman the media built.

I've been here and read it all, I'm contlstantly met with responses like this but never a reasonable one attempting to explain things.

That's because you've rejected what PG is. You think you know, but you don't. You think it's about Clinton and CPP but are unaware of how it all started and how it evolved. Clinton has always been a peice of a larger puzzle.

No, it's because I followed it from the beginning. You guys are trying to make it something it's not because you're realizing the original was bs.

You clearly weren't following it, a problem far too common with people who think they know what they're talking about but are clueless.

Is that why no one has ever been able to back that claim up? Nows your chance, show me examples of Pizzagate being something different at the start.

First link that comes up when you google "eyes wide open 4chan which is what it was called before it was pizzagate. You're welcome to quit being so lazy and look yourself.

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No it wasn't lol show me proof that turned into pizzagate

pretty sure Pizza is necessarily involved in PG

Apparently "Pizzagate" means "any pedophilia-related conspiracy involving the government." I didn't get the memo either, don't worry.

It's confusing to me, the global pedophile thing is very real imo, I don't see why people feel the need to conflate that with the Pizzagate investigation.

I've seen some theories that this is being done intentionally, but I haven't seen any evidence to back that up. Either way, it's unfortunate.

Because Pizzagate is a blatant political smear with zero basis in reality. So they need to latch on to any legitimate story they can to try to shoehorn in some credibility.

The goal of pizzagate and it's advocates isn't to expose pedophiles as a magnanimous quest to help children. The only goal of pizzagate is character assassination.

They want to prove how leftists and ONLY leftists represent an ignominious movement led by pedophiles. They'll tell you how this isn't partisanship but rather an adventitious coincidence that only democrats happen to be pedophiles.

And every time you remind them that Trump smashed preteen ass with Jeff Epstein they lose their fucking minds.

You're both wrong. Pizzagate addresses that both sides use the same techniques for power in government. It was uncovered via dnc emails, but the scope of what it implies is not limited to Democrats. To limit research to that is stupid. And to try to convince others that that's what it is is doing a disservice. You think the Bushes weren't fucking kids? Same as the Clintons, same as every republican or president to make office since mkultra.

They're both right and wrong lol.

And every time you remind them that Trump smashed preteen ass with Jeff Epstein they lose their fucking minds.

I've literally never seen that, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt...

It's all bad, but if you're gonna be intellectually honest, you have to realise that Trump is generally seen (by many) as the outsider who's been likeliest to allow action to be taken against the alleged sadist debauchery going on.

https://imgoat.com/uploads/416a75f4ce/40103.png

Seven months controlling every branch of government, not one globalist pedo behind bars. Plenty of time for golf, though.

Face it, Trump likes fucking children. He didn't do it to ingratiate himself with the Mammonites, he did it because he's a sick piece of shit.

Those people are out there, but it all started with the Podesta emails. Plenty of people got sidetracked, tried to make it about leftists, jumped to conclusions based on faulty logic (i.e. Elephantis was some Kingpin, running a pedo ring out of his pizza shop), and failed to see the bigger picture. The whiffs of clues, the oddities, the hints, all pointed to the larger, global issue at hand, and a lot of level-headed people who were following the investigation realized this. The whole story got sensationalized and polarized (by design IMO), and everyone forgot about the sketchy players who were either not being discussed for some reason (Epstein) or who didn't fit the narrative of left vs. right (Dennis Hastert). So no, the "whole goal of pizzagate" wasn't character assassination, but that's what the narrative in popular media pushed.

It started as character assassination via WikiLeaks and the leaked DNC emails, pointing out spirit cooking, then evolved into an anonymous crowd sourced research campaign of the highest order. They didn't see that coming did they?

The goal of pizzagate and it's advocates isn't to expose pedophiles as a magnanimous quest to help children.

Absolutely wrong.

Because there's no credibility to pizzagate so they try to invent it. If pedos exist, and government officials are pedos, then maybe Clinton really does run a world wide pedo ring

I just said this in another thread, but while a controversial opinion, I really wish "Pizzagate" wouldn't have coalesced with "pedogate". It's really muddied some waters in my opinion and this is a good example.

Hey I think you need this song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxR_ClSbCHU

So you can't explain how they're connected? Oh well, this is what I've come to expect from the Pizzagate community.

Your bias is showing ;)

Asking for an explanation for how this is connected to Pizzagate is showing my bias? Sounds like you don't know how they're connected to me. Feel free to explain it, none of you have so far.

Reread. You're twisting things to make yourself feel superior.

Nope, I think it's pretty obvious who's bias is showing actually. You blindly believe this stuff, you can't offer an explanation as to how they're connected because you don't know.

Great attitude for /r/ConspiracyRight where you like to post, not so much here.

its called moving the goalposts. They were wrong about comet and podesta, so now in order to save face theyve backed off to the position of "if there are any pedophiles anywhere in government then I was right a little bit". Its just childish egos not wanting to admit they were wrong.

but we already knew there were pedos in government lol

multiple congressmen have been busted for it!

Well I'll be damned...

You do realize that anyone can edit wikipedia?

Add the removed information back.

ït will probably be removed again, just as the first time someone added it?

Those in control of articles are rarely unbiased. They will keep it like they want it even if you mustered an army of edits.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jdycoEXgYA

it's closely controlled and any facts the elites don't want you knowing last only seconds.

then you just check the history and click on the links

links look good? you can bring that up on he discussion page

pretty airtight system actually

Kerth Barker is a child survivor of these abuses and has been forced into this situations of being the child in the video, and said the same thing. Even further, Barker's experience was that the group in question flat out told him (as a child) that they were the "Illuminati" and that they were "lizard aliens." -- WAIT Let me explain:

• Barker admits that he was told these lies, as a child, and he, as an adult, does not believe that his abusers are aliens, but he reports that IS what they tried to tell him.

Here is Kerth Barker's books https://www.amazon.com/Kerth-Barker/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AKerth%20Barker.

Excellent and horrible, saved my life, and made me realize I didn't get as bad a treatment as Barker, but these people need to be stopped. They've been at it too very long. And if pedogate gets swept under, the elite will have all our freedom and reality itself, as we know, reality is only based off what we agree on as a society --

Which one of the books is this from?

The link is (ashamedly) an Amazon link, but I believe it's a list of all his books. However, I'd suggest "Overcoming Monarch Mind Control" as helpful and "Mental Liberation in the Age of Thought Control." What's amazing is that the author managed to survive and not kill himself... B/c the crap he went through, was beyond awful. (such as: developing a relationship with an animal, then being forced to sacrifice the pet) This is something that happens in human cults. -- And the ones in occult (especially this kind) are no doubt rich as Hell, and have a lot of time and resources.

I don't know. My internet is 90's dialup slow, so I don't want to load it again. .More info to find. Cheers. https://www.amazon.com/Kerth-Barker/s?ie=UTF8&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AKerth%20Barker

If that is true, it's impressive. Had a pretty shitty life myself ... that said, suicide never seemed like a solution to me. I feel like if I die, it will only make things worse.

Well. everybody dies, so that's not something anyone can avoid. Not that I'm arguing, suicide is for the blackmailed and the severely tortured creatures who might never escape.

Let's hope we can shine a light on the situation. Right now, celebrities committing suicide have been investigating pedogate... one reason is b/c "fake news" is winning just by continuing to threaten and murder people --

This is beyond dangerous, covert murders are happening: Here's one reference: http://www.jchristoff.com/the-governments-heart-attack-gun-2/

Question is whether those suicides are truly suicides. If I thought suicide was a valid escape from this shitty existence, I might consider it. But I doubt it.

Let me reiterate the elephant link I dropped --

Covert murders are happening, there is a heart attack device: http://www.jchristoff.com/the-governments-heart-attack-gun-2/

Good find. I'm not surprised at all that this is technologically possible. I guess the only surprise you can ever have is that somebody actually does it ... but then, that isn't really surprising either. Good to have evidence, of course. What's the source of the video? Just wanna know I'm not looking at some fictional crime movie.

One problem. The citations used for this Wiki article are from Goliszek's book In the Name of Science: A History of Secret Programs, Medical Research, and Human Experimentation, but he does not cite the original source of this information.

Some people in /conspiracy lack a clear concept of words like prove, admit, confirm.

You do realize that Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, right?

I think what has been so frustrating about Pizzagate is to see the apparatus that runs and supports it wage such a successful campaign of disinfo and discrediting. The 'fake news' psy-op has been staggering. The censorship and domination of the internet also. But anybody who has researched in fact numerous topics will have come across it. It is known, it is more or less proven to be going on time and time again. And yet on it seems to go. To be quite honest, I don't think it will ever get sorted out. I think they have, overall, just too much power. Plus, this stuff all traces back to the tip top of the Cabal pyramid. Their plans are going to proceed. We more or less know what they are. Albert Pike. The Protocols. They make things pretty clear, over-all. There will division and conflict and ultimately a new world order. War and economic collapse, along with the problems of mass radical globalization, weather wars, will usher us into a single currency, mark of the beast RFID chip system. But the rackets these Cabal and government groups have going on will ensue. And this is assuming the poles don't shift and kill most on the planet.

Thanks babe. Check out my hompage.

Nothing to do with Pizzagate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fbs-aBjdD9w

Ya mkultra officially ended in 1973. You can doubt the official narrative, but hard to see how this relates directly to pizzagate.

kept going, still is

So pizzagate is an mkultra operation?

more like what they do when they become adults

Wikipedia debunks something you want to be true: "Wikipedia can be edited by anyone, so their articles prove nothing"

Wikipedia confirms something you want to be true: "Wikipedia uses confirmed sources, so their articles are valid"

You people are severely mentally ill to still believe in this shit. You should seek mental help.

What is it that you think I do for a job?

"Battle for the Mind" by William Sargant confirms the mind control practices. It is available on torrents.

Whataboutism, dishonest framing, and a strawman fallacy? Nice!

Calm down. Just make an actual argument next time and you won't get called out.

I'm sure I could, but your tactics are hilarious.

2 + 2 = 22. And MKUltra is real.

Yeah, good luck with that.

You don't get to make up some bad logic and compare that negatively to what I'm saying. I know what you are.

If this is such a big deal to you, why bring it up so specifically in this thread? And defend it so violently? THAT makes no sense, and I DON'T think there is some mass confusion about the topics, and your narrowly contrived "definition" for Pizzagate is yours and yours alone, but I doubt most people share that sentiment.

Can you explain the concept of inversion and a couple examples please? I'd like to understand this concept better

Where psychopaths lack any empathy or compassion (love, light, joy), they can never be able to understand it (even they can imitate it). I think the Luciferian psychopaths get a genuine kick out of intentionally inverting normal society's ideals.

Or maybe they're just following their nature and assuming power, and they have a way of bringing the worst out in people - moving away from "Godly" nature naturally takes you to lower nature.

This

There's your "erosion of moral values" right there.

Hermetism is quite interesting, they seem to be the ones focusing on nothing at all

We have a secret society focusing on "good" trough evil

We have a public society focusing on "good" trough good

and we have Hermetism which is a publicly secret society focusing on results by observation (I really don't think that much of them)

we also have others like the Orden Rosacruz (Rose Cross Order) they are pretty much the same in their hermetic points of view but...they do meddle with magic, less observation and more experimentation

Do you legitimately believe in the Ark story? Like that it's really 100% true?

Well. everybody dies, so that's not something anyone can avoid. Not that I'm arguing, suicide is for the blackmailed and the severely tortured creatures who might never escape.

Let's hope we can shine a light on the situation. Right now, celebrities committing suicide have been investigating pedogate... one reason is b/c "fake news" is winning just by continuing to threaten and murder people --

This is beyond dangerous, covert murders are happening: Here's one reference: http://www.jchristoff.com/the-governments-heart-attack-gun-2/

but we already knew there were pedos in government lol

multiple congressmen have been busted for it!

then you just check the history and click on the links

links look good? you can bring that up on he discussion page

pretty airtight system actually

I already know about paperclip and MKULTRA. What's that have to do with your bullshit?