It's kinda sad... cause instead of watching the news for a couple months there I could just listen to this everyday and get the gist of it...

Trump, Russia, Possible Collusion

Thank you for this :D

lol...MSM narrative to beats fucking rules!

In before "you think we can only hold one thought at a time?"

AstroTurf needs billions of dollars worth of water, nutrients, and faux-rage, to sustain it. It withers and dies if it goes a few days without attention.

But fortunately, it can be revived at a moment's notice, any time the media tells us it's super duper important again.

It's not just the astroturfers. The corporate media has clearly shifted their focus and is telling us to focus elsewhere as well. Rather than being afraid of Trump being a Russian spy, now I'm supposed to be afraid Trump is a Nazi.

No I haven't noticed and that is because the Russia posts haven't dried up here at all. One of the highest posts on the sub right now is about Trump-Russia...

Where? I see nothing of value...

It doesn't look like anything to me.

Yeah no big news about manaforts notes at a meeting with Russia's even came out or anything.

It's interesting how the investigation has zeroed in on Manafort, huh? The guy who came into the Trump campaign way late (March iirc?), explicitly as a long-time Washington establishment Republican who could help against the "#NeverTrump" Republicans, and left early, months before the election (in August I believe). And the guy whose "Russian ties" are strongly connected to the Podesta group who he was working for in Ukraine.

And yet people still keep talking like any dirt on Manafort is likely to implicate Trump by association. It's at least as likely to implicate Clinton.

To be clear, I despise Donald Trump. I just think this whole Russia thing is a giant red herring even if Manafort is convicted of something shady.

Seems like it's zeroed in pretty hard on Flynn too. And Trump Jr., now that he admitted to attempting to collude with Russia.

Has it? I haven't seen any news stories showing progress in those investigations. Everything I've seen in recent weeks has been about Manafort.

Yeah, investigations generally don't parse out any info before charges are levied.

Kind of hard to distract the public from the FBI raiding manaforts house pre-dawn. But Trump tried to.

Yeah, investigations generally don't parse out any info before charges are levied.

Some investigations, but this one's been leaking like the Titanic from the beginning. Of course there could be important stuff we're still in the dark about, but that doesn't mean we should fill the gaps with wild, politically motivated assumptions. The best information we've got right now seems to suggest that Manafort is in some deep shit, but that Trump himself is not under investigation. There might be more going on, but until there's evidence actually implicating the president in some way, I personally think people should focus on all the terrible things he does and has done that are firmly established facts. It's not like there's a shortage.

Of course there could be important stuff we're still in the dark about, but that doesn't mean we should fill the gaps with wild, politically motivated assumptions.

I agree completely.

The best information we've got right now seems to suggest that Manafort is in some deep shit, but that Trump himself is not under investigation.

Wait what? Trump is still part of an ongoing investigation.

There might be more going on, but until there's evidence actually implicating the president in some way, I personally think people should focus on all the terrible things he does and has done that are firmly established facts.

That goes both ways. We can't assume that he isn't implicated in anything just because we don't have enough info. Everybody needs to wait for the investigation to end before telling everyone else what he did/didn't do. There's way too much speculation and assuming.

We can't assume Trump isn't implicated, but there is no evidence that he is, despite people taking it as a given. They announced the grand jury and started issuing subpoenas last month, and raided Manafort's home, and those publicly known developments give us some idea of where they're actively digging. None of it has yet involved Trump himself. I'm not jumping to any conclusions myself, but I think it's telling how many people eagerly jump to the conclusion that Trump is guilty of conspiring with Putin himself despite the total lack of evidence to justify their certitude.

Only been leaking the stuff that fits a peculiar agenda. For example, not much was said about the Podesta Group subpoena, nor the subsequent belated filings to report John Podesta's brother as a foreign agent.

John podesta isn't under investigation by the FBI and isn't running the country. Why is this sub so obsessed with him? Because it distracts you from trunp?

Maybe because the fucker actually did collude with Russia?

Podesta is a pedophile. That's why people want to see him in jail.

Thats fine but I don't understand how podesta being a pedophile rules out trump and his team colluding with Russia

they lived in trump tower and were plotting together since forever, according to the confirmed real tweets of manaforts own daughters.

wishful thinking

No wishes here. Donald Trump can fry and I'll revel in it. I just happen to think he's more likely to fry on non-Russia-related charges like corrupt business deals and financial conflicts of interest -- but those could draw attention to the crookedness of many other people in DC who'd rather not have corruption and conflicts of interest be the topic of discussion, since it would make them vulnerable to charges of hypocrisy -- hence the red herring.

But I haven't seen evidence connecting Trump to Manafort's shadiness in any way besides the fact that Manafort was his campaign manager for awhile in the middle of the campaign -- takes incredible leaps to get to from there to "therefore Trump personally conspired with Russia".

I'm intrigued by the part about them "plotting together since forever", though. Have a link to back that claim?

http://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/manaforts-ukrainian-blood-money-caused-qualms-hack-suggests-235473

By contrast, the Manafort daughters and their mother seemed much more unsettled about Paul Manafort’s work as a political consultant for Yanukovych’s Russia-backed Party of Regions, which is a subject of renewed interest among investigators probing possible links between Trump’s campaign and Russia.

In one March 2015 exchange that appears to be between the two sisters, Andrea Manafort seems to suggest that their father bore some responsibility for the deaths of protesters at the hands of police loyal to Yanukovych during a monthslong uprising that started in late 2013.

“Don't fool yourself,” Andrea Manafort wrote. “That money we have is blood money.”

In another hacked exchange a few months later with someone else, Andrea Manafort wrote that her father’s “work and payment in Ukraine is legally questionable.”

Manafort acknowledged that his daughter Andrea had been hacked and corroborated the authenticity of at least some of the texts between him and her, but declined to comment on most of them.

In a text exchange in early April, Jessica Manafort tells her sister that her father, who maintained an apartment in Trump Tower, where the campaign is located, seemed to be thriving on the campaign.

“Dad and Trump are literally living in the same building and mom says they go up and down all day long hanging and plotting together,” Jessica Manafort wrote. “Gross,” Andrea Manafort responded, prompting Jessica Manafort to come to their father’s defense.

“Its really amazing opportunity at 67 years old. And he is basically running the campaign now He is so happy,” Jessica Manafort wrote.

Ahh, I thought by "plotting together since forever" you might have meant preceding Manafort becoming Trump's campaign manager. This is a lot less interesting in terms of Trump's hypothetical involvement in anything Russia-related. The presidential candidate and his campaign manager "plotting together" and living in relatively close quarters during the period when we already knew they were working together on the campaign itself doesn't imply at all that their "plotting" had anything to do with Russian collusion or with Manafort's shady dealings in Ukraine.

yeah manafort probably told putin to fuck off, because now hes a true patriot and works for the good of the United States of America now. especially when considering the recent events in manaforts life (the fbi stopping by for early morning no knock breakfast in bed visit), i think we can all agree the country is in good hands.

Apparently you're not even reading my comments?

you think trump was unaware of manafort being absolutely filthy?

you think manaforts relationships in russia didnt infect trumps campaign? why was it so obviously russia friendly? why can he still, to this day, not criticize putin?

so much for extreme vetting by mr trump. seems most of his cabinet has to leave for lying about weird foreign ties. If he didnt know, hes an idiot, if he did know, hes a criminal. either way, he shouldnt be in charge of shit and needs to be called out and held accountable. ignorance isnt a credible defense until he steps down

I know right, it's almost as if they think Manafort was running Trump's campaign or something.

I don't know why people keep on linking Manafort to Trump either. And the Russian connections and the fact that Junior and Kushner were involved has no bearing either.

Big ol nothing burger, right comrade?

Please explain to me in detail, step by step, how the allegations against Paul Manafort are presumed to directly implicated Trump. I have seen nothing but hand-waving that amounts to "they probably conspired at some point!" with no actual evidence to back it up -- not even alleged evidence that's classified.

Um........ Because he ran his campaign? Because Trump's son and son in law were present at the meeting, and Trump started talking about new insider information about Hillary immediately after the meeting?

Or, who knows maybe Junior didn't run back to Daddy to tell him the exiting news....... Yeah right.

What exciting news? I still haven't seen any "exciting news" tied to Trump Jr.'s meeting. Just assumptions. And hiring someone doesn't mean you're retroactively involved in everything they've ever done. It takes a lot more evidence than "they worked together" to spread one person's crimes to another person. So many assumptions being drawn here. Please try to look at the case you're making from a critical, skeptical perspective. Like the sort I've seen you apply many many times here against counter-establishment narratives that involve similar unjustified leaps without evidence.

The thing that you keep on forgetting is that Mueller isn't releasing the results of his investigation as he picks up evidence.

That's not how this works.

I'm not forgetting that. It's possible Mueller will shock us all with revelations none of us have even predicted. But there's a big difference between hypothetically possible speculation and evidence-based inference. We've been getting a constant stream of dribs and drabs for months -- and recently, they have been heavily focused on Manafort, with no indication that anyone in Trump's circle is incriminated in anything illegal related to Russia. It's reasonable to infer that Manafort could be in deep shit. But his ties to Russia go wayy back before he had anything to do with Trump. I'm not saying it's impossible Trump could be implicated -- I'm saying there's no evidence or logical rationale to justify that assumption at this stage. It seems more like politically motivated wishful thinking.

Which is why I think people should be more focused on what we actually KNOW Trump is guilty of or implicated in already. There's so much of it. Like his insane, unconstitutional financial conflicts of interest -- I'm amazed that everybody just kind of stopped talking about that in favour of speculating about "Russian collusion". Investigating is one thing, I'm all for that. The more investigation of the powerful the better, as far as I'm concerned. But devoting hours upon hours of media coverage to baseless speculation about that investigation, connecting dots wildly when there's so much meaty, fact-based stuff to cover instead -- it's bizarre.

Of course, I have my theories about why. Focusing on "Russian collusion" lets his attackers go wild without worrying about accusations of corruption and dishonesty being turned back around on them -- since most of Washington is guilty of that behaviour to at least some extent. And so Trump's unprecedented levels of corruption and dishonesty get buried behind the one conspiracy theory it's now socially acceptable to endorse and run wild with.

They probably conpired at some point

Paul Manafort was the campaign manager for Trumps presidential run

Yes, an entirely legal professional arrangement. Going from there to "therefore, treasonous collusion with a hostile government" is not a justifiable leap without further evidence.

My bad I thought you were asking why Manafort being guilty could implicate Trump.

Manafort has had the FBI raid his house pre-dawn in connection to the 2016 Russian interference of the election and has a number of incredibly dubious connections to Ukraine and Russia. There's no concrete evidence available to the public and likely won't be until the investigation concludes.

Yeah, I think there's a very strong change Manafort is guilty of something, but there doesn't seem to be any evidence that Trump himself is implicated in the investigation. Of course it's hypothetically plausible that something will turn up, or that it already has and they've just been very very good at keeping it under wraps, but people are acting like any guilt on Manafort's part is automatically transferable to Trump, and it's getting a bit silly.

I agree Manaforts crimes =/= Trumps crimes and there is ZERO concrete evidence available to the public that Trump is implicated in this but...

Why would Trump, a populist, go completely against the GOP and DNC platforms on the Ukraine/Crimea conflict and urge for a softer stance on Russia? It came completely out if the blue.

This was before the whole Russian collusion story took place and left analysts scratching their heads.

It's hard to argue that Manafort was colluding with the Russians and Trump coincidentally had an inexplicable soft spot for anything Russia/Putin without putting 2 and 2 together.

Why would Trump, a populist, go completely against the GOP and DNC platforms on the Ukraine/Crimea conflict and urge for a softer stance on Russia? It came completely out if the blue.

This will probably get me called a Russian shill (nope, just a Canadian grad student), but I thought that was one of Trump's sanest stances amid a platform I found horrific. A better question IMO is why the US political establishment seems determined to stoke tension between nuclear superpowers even though that presents the single greatest existential threat to human civilization. Better relations between the US and Russia -> lower chance of nuclear apocalypse. Not killing us all should generally be a goal of foreign policy, IMO. It's the aggressive stance of the GOP and DNC I find incomprehensible....

Russia is not a superpower anymore, and going by that logic why not take a softer stance on China? He has no issue with antagonizing the hell out of that nuclear power.

At the end of the day Trump, for whatever reason, might truly believe in better relations with Russia - but it's one hell of a coincidence that it happened to coincide with his campaign manager, National security advisor, son in law,and son all had very conspicuous ties to Russia that they decided to lie about.

Russia isn't an economic superpower or a military superpower, but it is beyond dispute that it is a nuclear superpower. It is the only country with more nuclear warheads than the United States.

The US, including Trump, isn't antagonizing China to anywhere near the degree they are antagonizing Russia. For good reason -- it would be devastating to the US economy if they applied the kind of sanctions they do against Russia. That's not to say there are no good reasons to sanction Russia -- but the goal should be ultimately to negotiate and compromise on those issues and move toward better relations between the two countries. That's not an intrinsically bad thing like it's being portrayed lately -- quite the opposite.

This will likely collect lots of downvotes but when he spoke positively about Russia, that was a major factor in my decision to vote for him.

The Cold War is over. They are capitalist. Our goals conflict, but more often they align. They are cousins, not enemies. Plus, any world where the two biggest nuclear super powers decide to be friendly is a safer world.

When I heard Trump speak in favor of Russia, I realized wow, maybe despite being a total Establishment shill, maybe he really is doing this to make America great. And at the same moment, I saw the DNC assemble this cross of "collusion" on which they have attempted to crucify him ever since.

It's an odd thing, but the MIC has run the country very reliably through a system of propaganda for at least the past 60-70 years. It works. Pull lever X and Y happens. The problem here is that someone else pulled the levers and Z happened. The DNC/MIC are raging because someone else pulled the propaganda levers and they don't have any defense for that. However, they can't reveal the details without revealing their own use of propaganda to run our society.

See Edward Bernays if you want to learn the levers for yourself.

Russia is not a nuclear superpower and has berry little bearing on the rest of the world. It's ageing supply of nukes is the only thing keeping it from fading into oblivion.

Many of our goals do not align, they are an adversarial state. I don't know why you would think that.

Russia is not a nuclear superpower and has berry little bearing on the rest of the world. It's ageing supply of nukes is the only thing keeping it from fading into oblivion.

Are you an idiot? They have more bombs, bigger bombs, and play an increasing role in geopolitics around the globe. Ukraine? Syria? Iran? Our own doorstep?

Many of our goals do not align, they are an adversarial state. I don't know why you would think that.

Maybe it's time we work to change that?

Russia's power and scope doesn't extend past fledgling cold war alliances and bullying small neighbors. They are not a superpower and have not been for some time.

Work on forming constructive responses as opposed to getting upset and calling someone an idiot when you read something you disagree with.

Russia has about 7000 nukes. More than literally any other country. Where on Earth did you get the idea that they aren't a nuclear superpower? What is your definition of "nuclear superpower" that excludes the only country with more nukes than the United States?

Russia is a nation with nuclear weapons but not a superpower in any sense of the word

You're minimizing a severe threat to the continued existence of humanity, potential military conflict between the US and Russia, by minimizing the fact that Russia could destroy literally the entire planet if they chose to and still have nuclear weapons to spare. Russia isn't the economic/political/military superpower it once was, but 7000 nukes are 7000 nukes. The fact that the technology is aging honestly just makes it worse because it leaves more room for error. This is not a risk to take lightly.

No, I just don't live in fear of some Russian boogeyman

I don't "live in fear", but rational decision-making in international affairs demands acknowledging that the potential for nuclear war between the US and Russia is the single biggest threat to the continued existence of human civilization. That's just a scientific fact. It's extremely irresponsible to ignore that, like it's extremely irresponsible to ignore the threats posed by climate change or global pandemics (except neither of those are likely to be anywhere near as destructive as nuclear war). Possibly the most concerning thing is that unlike during the Cold War, no one seems to take this risk seriously anymore, even though it hasn't diminished.

Russia has been handled rationally by the US. They invaded a sovereign nation, the US sanctions them.

Trumps strategy of appeasement is more dangerous than anything else. Russia has proved that if you give them an inch they'll take a mile.

That's just a scientific fact

Don't use phrases like that, it sounds like you're 14. Try using objective or just say 'fact'.

They invaded a sovereign nation, the US sanctions them.

You really don't understand the situation in Ukraine. It's so much more complex than that. Just for starters, the US was involved before Russia annexed Crimea -- they backed the Ukrainian nationalist faction to overthrow the pro-Russia Ukrainian government. Crimeans are majority ethnically Russian and by-and-large rejected the new non-elected government and their anti-Russia stance. There were legitimate reasons for Ukrainians to reject the preceding pro-Russia government, but the issue is not black and white. The Ukrainian revolution put Russia in a very difficult diplomatic position -- but none of that nuance is included in the discussion of sanctions against Russia. Of course you can't expect effective diplomacy when one side refuses to even acknowledge the perspective of the other side.

Don't use phrases like that, it sounds like you're 14. Try using objective or just say 'fact'.

Oh fuck off. I used the word "scientific" because the risks posed by nukes are rooted in concrete science, not hypothetical speculation or "boogeyman" fearmongering. Try not getting caught up in trivialities like word choice and sticking to the actual substance of the discussion.

Looks like you scared some shills

lol yeah, it's always interesting when in a highly upvoted post, all the comments bashing the post itself rapidly get a ton of upvotes, and all the comments that back up the OP at all, especially if they make decent points, get downvoted to oblivion.

Yeah I think you may also have some bots that auto downvote you based on your name and posting history in this sub.

This happens to me in TD, generally I've noticed if you have a "flagged account" you'll get a ton of downvotes within a short period of time, no matter what you post.

I'm not flagged on here so my calling out the shills actually has her upvotes while your response to me was at 0

Was that the meeting Manafort was at with the Podesta group?

Many know it's bullshit, or just don't care. Scary has been used too much to be effective in bending minds

So what you're saying is it might be bullshit but even if it's true you don't care.

There is no way for me to know if the Russia gossip is true, so yes. The scare seems recycled.

Yep... I noticed it started to fade before Charlottesville and the whole Nazi/White Supremacist narrative.

But it didn't..

But not really.

No? People are still trying to ride that dead horse? I heard that Trump just tweeted something about Hillary and Comey. We still need to sort that one out.

Yes. People are still talking about this story and the investigation continues. Try to keep up.

Haha! It is a waste. There is nothing there. Besides, wasn't Skippy colluding with the Russians? Is the MSM reporting on that?

You guys can keep repeating that. It won't change a thing.

Of course they will keep pursuing it. It is pretty much all they have.

What is your take on what happened? How exactly did Russia help Trump win the election? Did Russia hack the election machines and change votes?

I'm not getting into the entire debate right now. I'm glad we got to the point where you agree it's still happening. That's progress at least.

Tell me what happened? I have heard that Russia hacked the election machines, and I have heard that Russia somehow influenced the elections. If Russia influenced the elections, then why was this influence not seen in the polls?

What do polls have to do with anything?

Because if the Russians influence the election, then it would have shown up in the polls, right?

The NY Times gave Hillary an 85% chance of winning:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/upshot/presidential-polls-forecast.html?mcubz=1

That's a pretty silly argument.

Not really... How did the Russians influence the election? I know they did not, but what are your thoughts?

People should be upset with the MSM for lying to them.

It's not just this sub. Even /r/politics was light on Trump/Russia stories for a couple weeks there, because there really weren't that many. My theory is that the news cycle was more focused on Charlottesville, and the media doesn't want to drop a big story unless they can cause maximum damage to Trump. We've been back to our regularly scheduled programming this week

That's exactly it. Reporters want their time in the spotlight, they're not going to drop their news when it will be drowned out be Nazi rallies.

That's why we're starting to see them again this week.

Well that's a crass way of saying that people that work hard on a story want people to read it.

My theory is since they're not just making shit up but actually reporting, they have to wait until they obtain new information or complete investigation into information they have already received before they publish a story.

I'm not even arguing guilt by association which wouldn't even phase don I mean all the stuff we already know is worse than guilt by association with manafort and none of that had meant shit.

I'm saying what's most likely is manafort has some totally legit indisputable hard evidence that could bury trump and we will all know it when trump pardons him.

Posts like this appear on here whenever there aren't what seem like important stories and when there are (this story about Manafort's notes the January-appointed RNC Chief of Staff abruptly resigning on the same day).

Way to go indirectly labeling everyone who posts Trump-Russia related stories shills BTW.

Way to go indirectly labeling everyone who posts Trump-Russia related stories shills BTW.

not a rules violation i guess

but its a great way to spot people who want to shape perceptions on here

The Russian propaganda operation is in full swing here, perhaps aided by unwitting rightwingers.

It's really something to watch, especially when people start posting about how Putin is the true savior of the west.

Well and custy Bannoncorps members

Man it's off the charts in this thread.

It's really something to watch, especially when people start posting about how Putin is the true savior of the west.

It's hilarious. Any even shallow investigation of the objective facts about Russia reveal it to be one of the most low energy places on earth with rampant corruption and a pathetic 14k per capital GDP despite having more natural resources per person than any other county.

Where you here when a post criticizing Putin has posted, and at least 4 comments had the exact same phrase of "Putin is a saint" while defending Putin and using whataboutism tactics?

It's just a tactic to get people to actually pay attention to it.

Shills gonna shil

There's literally a post on the front page right now about the Russian story.

There's been several posts on the front page over the past few days.

Y'all are straight up retarded. Or paid to push lies and talking points.

And you literally have 2 posts on your account.

Lol. These guys ain't so smart..

Rule 4

There is literally a story about the russia investigation on the front page of this sub right now. So what the fuck are you talking about? Oh you don't care that Jeff Sessions want to crack down hard on people who smoke a plant? Cool man. Keep cheerleading.

Muh weed man. Don't touch muhh weeeed..

What a low effort bullshit reply.

It's also kind of rich when it comes from someone who supposedly supports right-leaning ideals and/or Donald Trump's agenda (which aren't always the same thing).

The War on Drugs has been one of the most costly failures in U.S. history, but economically and more importantly when it comes to eroding our freedoms. It has been used to justify ever more intrusive law enforcement and surveillance tactics, to spent huge amounts of money on para-military hardware and prisons, and so much more..

Any person who says they believe in less government and great individual freedom and who also supports the War on Drugs or mocks those who criticize escalating the war on drugs is a raging hypocrite of the worst sort.

They only want fewer rules and smaller government for the rich. The rest of us get a police state.

Its hilarious that the post directly below yours is about Russia

I really hope Trump was working with the russians.

I really hope Trump works with the Russians and fixes a few problems..

I really hope we can work with Russia to better the planet instead of the forced narrative that we have to be enemies

I really hope anyone that actually believed russia havked the election gets sent to a gulag camp in siberia

I really hope that people are the bigger picture of the geopolitical landscape and realize that the US and Russia's interests are constantly conflicting and would often oppose each other regardless of the party in control.

I really hope that a few people correctly see that Russia's natural trading neighbor is Europe, the USA's are the advanced pacific nations and Latin America (that it constantly rapes) and that the US and Russian's natural interests only conflict in the minds of the neo-cons' and their drones.

This

Lol, this is the dumbest thing I've ever read, I seriously think I got a little dumber reading that. Do you know how much we trade with England and Germany? What a load of steaming shit.

They really only conflict bc the msm tells you they do when majority of americans agree with the common sense logic of russias foreign policy

Yeah, let's just give them the Ukraine, Estonia, and Latvia, then we'll all live in harmony!

you forgot about Georgia.

Too bad he's been prevented from even trying. I hope he doesn't do the next incoming administration as dirty as obama did him.

If you read the actual intelligence agency report, they detail a lot of hacking into state election machines. I suspect rather strongly that the Russians were watching the actual machines in real-time during the election for shenanigans. Yet they touched nothing. I suspect rather strongly we owe them a big fucking thank you.

For what?

For being there to witness shenanigans, if any were to occur.

Or if they didn't occur the way they had intended

Are you saying they would have shifted election results? Because that would have been discovered.

Are you saying they didn't?

Well, Obama said they didn't, I kinda trust him. Do you have any indication to the contrary?

No but I'm saying that it's possible.

It's possible that they would use one of the unstoppable nuclear torpedoes to generate a tsunami that wipes out an American city, as well. There are many possibilities. Some have a shred of likelihood, others do not.

The facts remain that people from Russian IP space hacked many of our election systems. It could have been the FSB, it could have been the CIA, it could have been Israel, it could have been a corporate 3rd party. We don't know. The fact also remains that they didn't touch anything.

My theories are either (1) they were ensuring the success of their work with Cambridge Analytica, (2) they were watchdogging the American election process to ensure no shenanigans, or (3) it was a financial hacking operation to profit from knowing the results of the American election before it was announced.

A further fact remains that the DNC email leaks (which is what this whole Russian collusion thing was originally about) did NOT happen through Russia but rather someone in the domestic US who then framed the information to make it look as though it had been hacked by Russia. So that's interesting, and it means one ought to look at any other "Russia!" accusations with some suspicion because it means someone is actively framing Russia.

Yet they touched nothing. I suspect rather strongly we owe them a big fucking thank you.

Wow, you are not living in reality.

No, but I'm living in your reality so deal with it. :)

Glad somebody said it.

Wow, what a shit post this is.

Yep, there's been plenty of people taking notice of this. People at r/wayofthebern even speak casually about how obviously and abruptly the corporate media shifted gears from RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA to NORTH KOREA NORTH KOREA NORTH KOREA to NAZIS NAZIS NAZIS.

hm wayofthebern

seems the connection people have alluded to on here is real. its like alt right guys in antifa masks stirring shit up, but online lol

and even sadder, if thats possible

News cycles?

STUPID MSM TRYING TO TRICK US WITH CREATING A FAKE HURRICANE.

Wow people discuss recent events more than past ones? Anyone else notice how much the seth rich posts here have dried up since the MSM started prioritizing other stories?

yea it's almost like the 24/7 media machine likes to just blast people with current events that are sure to get headlines and ratings.

weird, huh?

Yes, it you're right. But that doesn't negate Jeff Sessions being an enemy of the American people, probably should have left that part out.

its all part of the job, gotta spread both narratives.

bullshit. a lot of it has quieted down since the appointment of the special prosecutor. why do so many people put up these hopeful 'pls forget about russia' posts?

why?

Because Russia didn't hack the DNC.. Seth Rich or Anwan Iwan did more likely.

Oh man so you have proof or is this misinformation propaganda?

lol guess

you get a lot of people constantly making statements like that, but its just drive bys

Even if what you say is true (debatable), there is way more to the Russia/election issue than just the DNC hack.

Yep, and as long as you blame Russia for it, you don't have to investigate the REAL perpetrators!

Who are the REAL perpetrators?

You mean the people who were found to have rigged the DNC election and suffered no consequences? That'd be the DNC. Look it up. Debbie WassermanShultz was in it on if you need a keyword!

Wait, so you think the DNC hacked their own servers, the personal email accounts of several staff members, the email of the head of the campaign of their presidential candidate, and the email of Colin Powell and then proceeded to hand those emails over to WikiLeaks and other websites? Why the fuck would they do that?

I was not talking about the emails. I was talking about the robbery of a chance at election for Bernie Sanders. You know, corruption and manipulation in the highest process an American can participate in. Though I can see why you'd bring up the hacked emails. You realize that the original company that analyzed the hack and announced Russia was the culprit has since backed down and distanced themselves from those claims? Turns out disgruntled members of the DNC may have hacked those servers from the inside. Though it could've really been ANYONE. You have to consider the fact that Hillary Clinton smashed some 23 devices so that they could not be searched and seized... That makes all of that data she just had out in the open VERY lucrative, regardless of it's exact nature, because it's obvious she was trying to hide something.

No, the government that cleared her of destroying that evidence was not responsible for the hack. However, disgruntled employees within that very government, or anyone who was looking to expose crimes of treason and election manipulation might have been behind it. I personally commend the individuals or individual that was behind those leaks, as they gave anyone who took the time to read them confirmation of manipulation and corruption. We need more truth in the world.

Why did you respond to my statement about the Russian election hacking issue saying that the DNC was the real perpetrator when that isn't what you meant? As far as I can tell the whole thing you just typed is completely unrelated to my point.

My point is that the DNC server was not the only thing that was hacked so even if it turns out that that one was a leak by an insider there are still plenty of others that were hacked (potentially by Russia). In addition to that, hacking wasn't even the only thing that was done, there was also the proliferation of bogus news stories that were spread on Facebook, and the possibility that some of the states voter rolls were hacked making it more difficult for some people in key states to vote.

Is this a crossover episode??

cue laugh track

Ah yes the golden laugh track, makes anything being sold 100% true.

There is no attribution or nonrepudiation in Crowdstrikes findings. Crowdstrike has a history of false attribution as well. They also missed the actions of Guciffer 2.0 while they were supposedly monitoring the DNC for threats.

And yet we take their word as gospel.

sigh

No, either you don't get it, or you're purposely trying to misdirect. The DNC hack is one thing. The Russia collusion investigation is more than just the DNC hack. Even if the DNC hack had nothing to do with Russia, that doesn't dismiss everything else.

That would be like going to the doctor to check your throat for cancer, and he says you don't have throat cancer, so you're assuming you're cancer free. But, you have testicular cancer, so you're wrong about being cancer free.

Nobody is telling you to take the Russia word as gospel. They're saying stop trying to dismiss it while there's an ongoing investigation. At least wait till that's over for fucks sake.

No, either you don't get it, or you're purposely trying to misdirect. The DNC hack is one thing. The Russia collusion investigation is more than just the DNC hack. Even if the DNC hack had nothing to do with Russia, that doesn't dismiss everything else.

That would be like going to the doctor to check your throat for cancer, and he says you don't have throat cancer, so you're assuming you're cancer free. But, you have testicular cancer, so you're wrong about being cancer free.

Nobody is telling you to take the Russia word as gospel. They're saying stop trying to dismiss it while there's an ongoing investigation. At least wait till that's over for fucks sake.

I never spoke of the collusion.

I mean, you know why.

There are a ton of trump supporters going desperately with the "Russia is a nothingburger!!!!" or "Russia story is completely debunked!!!" narrative. At this point it sounds more like they're trying to convince themselves that it is totally a non-story. To any objective observer it looks increasingly desperate.

So you don't find all of this Russian hysteria even slightly suspicious? The DNC got caught rigging the election against Bernie, yet the only thing you'll hear on the news is "Russia this. Russia that." It isn't weird to you that information about a party rigging an election isn't being televised and is in fact, being covered up by the Russia narrative?

Personally, as a Ron Paul supporter, I find it highly suspicious that the Red Scare 2.0 appeared right after Hillary Clinton lost the election... Especially after all of the deals she made with them.

what do russia and bernie have to do with each other? you arent arguing in good faith. this is the definition of muddying the waters. your contributions arent useful.

i hate the dnc. i am also wary of russian active measures. they arent our friend, friend.

What does the Russian narrative that keeps getting played have to do with the findings that the DNC rigged it's own election against Sanders? There's an easy answer: Russia is the distraction. While you're distracted by the old boogeyman, the real monsters are getting away with murder once again.

I personally want peace in the world and can recognize a media spin narrative when I see one. There is a bike spinning madman by the name of Kim Jung that we should be all working together to stop. There are humvee driving, m16 toting, and tank operating members of ISIS that we should be working together to stop. (Whom were originally armed and funded ourselves in a disgusting repetition of history.

The Cold War ended in the 80s, Grandpa. Stop listening to what the media tells you to be afraid of.

lol no idea what all this was about. yes there are multiple things in the world to worry about. active measures are one of them, considering the embarassing and potentially dangerous situation it has put our country in (and NK + trump is a complete shit show exacerbated by the fact that our president is just as crazy and possibly MORE implulsive than the leader of NK)

The Cold War ended in the 80s, Grandpa. Stop listening to what the media tells you to be afraid of.

This reasoning doesn't make any sense. Because we fought with Russia in the past it's supposed to be ridiculous to believe they would do anything against us in the future?

quite the opposite in fact

We fought with Britain in the past but that is all behind us because we pushed forward and made peace. That is how politics is meant to work. The Russians can't make peace with us if half of the country thinks they're comparable to Hitler. We can thank the media and the billions going into spinning this narrative for that though.

Russia only stopped being our enemy a little over 25 years ago, while the main conflict with Britain played out hundreds of years ago. I agree that peace between the two countries is an important goal but that still doesn't take away from the fact that potential collusion with the country by our leaders is something we should be concerned about, as the Russian government doesn't seem to have the best of intentions towards us.

How in the heck did this get 80 upvotes this quickly?

Just read some of the comments in the thread. It's funny though because you can easily see the paid and the woke folks in here.

How in the heck did this get 80 upvotes this quickly?

bots

no - have that shit in my filter list since american elections. dont see posts about and i dont see posts with Trump in title. fuck that noise

Thats bc liberals do no real analysis of whats going on they just regurgitate propaganda

Oh buddy you've picked a side.

Ill pick the side that wants liberty and freedom and doesnt want to take the guns every single time.

Oh you're still on muh guns?

Ill always be on muh guns bc its our only defense against tyrannical corrupt government

Well then I would support moderates

No i would support libertarians and classical liberals

So moderates then got it

Um no get educated

K

Or you could not vote for a tyrant, seems like that would be the safer choice.

How are you going to know if the person you voted for is going to be a tyrant. Ignorant.

Past behavior? Voting record? If a guy brags about grabbing woman by the pussy because he can, he will probably do a lot of shitty things because he can. And some people just gave him the keys to the castle.

I think men say a lot of stupid shit that they don't mean I see it all the time. If you disagree then you either have never hung out with a group of guys or you grew up in a bubble. Honestly Hillary has and would have done worse and her husband did as well. The problem with your argument is that the left used to love donald trump, black people used to put him in rap songs, but now bc he ran as a republican they hate him even though they know how rigged the dnc is and trump probably knew it as well and thats why he ran as republican since he is a classical liberal.

He has been used in rap songs, but not in a good way. You are so out of touch, black people have hated Trump since the central park 5. Yeah Ive been in locker rooms and around young guys that try to brag about their sexual prowess and make things up, those were all young guys, Im 40 nobody worth knowing talks like that at this age. You grow out of that when you realize every woman or girl is a mother, or a sister or a daughter. I wouldn't let anyone talk to any woman in my life, I certainly don't expect any man to let me talk to any woman he knows like that.

40 years old, argues with young people on the internet LMAO.

Figures, grow up and you might have enough insight to discuss these things.

No you are discussing something so far off topic bc you can't give any actual evidence of trump being a tyrant or that he was running as the tyrant president. All you say is he said grab em by the pussy, i dont like it it makes me feel things, trumps bad for saying that, i choose someone who talks like a robot but behind closed doors has disdain for all their constituents and makes fun of them in emails.

Edit: Also you implied earlier that women can't defend themselves which is very sexist imo

Show me where I said or implied that woman CANT defend themselves. Because I said no such thing. I said a man doesn't let other men disrespect or in this case, talk about sexually assaulting woman.

No you are discussing something so far off topic

I answered your question. For some reason YOU think that you cant tell a potential tyrant from a regular politician. If you are that helpless, being armed isn't going to save you.

There's been a sudden drop in other MSM stories being astroturfed to the front page here as well. Oddly enough it seems to coincide with the mod coup.

How come the Russia-Trump connection is the ONLY conspiracy that requires constant non-stop steady updates or it's fake?

I haven't seen anything today about the moon landing, guess that happened.

Haven't seen anything about 9/11, so I guess that happened exactly as they say.

No Sandy Hook crisis actors posts? I guess it actually was just some nutcase murderer and no big cover up.

Good to know.

How come the Russia-Trump connection is the ONLY conspiracy that requires constant non-stop steady updates or it's fake?

Because...

We Still Have Zero Evidence That Trump Colluded With Russia

Depends on what you consider "evidence". Personally, I think repeatedly lies and misdirection are indicative of a cover up and a cover up is indicative of a crime or conspiracy to commit a crime.

Its a weird form of misdirection, that is for sure.

You mean since The Nation published their article?

Man you guys are good at trying to bring it back up though. Excellent tactic trying to pretend to be a right wing shill while posting relevant information on the investigation.

The peeds buy this shit hook line and upvote. The problem with this tactic is that most kids don't actually read anything they just upvote anything with their bias.

You manage to get the conspiracy to the top through so excellent job.

So even people bashing the Trump Russia story ate left wing shills now?

All I'm saying is the only thing that came out of this post was discussion on the Russia story

Fair enough.

I like how all the people bitching about this post are totally not paid to post here.

But muh Russia!

I don't understand this expression. What is the "muh" supposed to signify and how does it relate to the Russia story?

Big revelation leaks have slowed for now. Other things are being covered.

Obvious.

Parrots are annoying.

Wait, you mean people post links about current events instead of just hammering the same old stories on which there have been no emails?

DAE SETH RICH!?!?!

Come on man, seriously? I know that your belief system rests upon the fact that the russia story doesnt exist but now your just putting blinders on. In the last week their was a flood of new information, some that contradicts Trump jrs interview, some that revealed more links to the dossier, some that showed more links to russian banking and a whole brand new avenue of collusion has sprung up.

The Russia conspiracy doesnt exist platform is so fragile and it cracks just a little more every week. Yet you ignorant, self serving sudden government besties have been peddling fake goods that have been rotting in your hands as you peddle them. Throw that shit in the trash, your pushing an agenda for a man a majority of the country despises, who hasnt done a damn thing for you or your family and who doesnt care how many times he lies to you. Stop being a political push pin, stop shilling for absolutely nothing.

stop shilling for absolutely nothing.

But Trump helped Republicans to allow ISPs to sell our internet history and as a woke unemployed coal miner that's the sort of thing I was thinking about when I voted for him!!

Trump supporters would get fucked in the ass and thank him for his generosity for spitting on it first.

Uh not at all, actually.

What I DO notice is that whenever more things come out (oh another secret meeting that trump lied about, oh their teaming up with state AG's offices, oh they are teaming up with the IRS crimes unit, etc etc) that this sub gets plastered with posts that are trying to claim it's all fake news.

I don't think Mueller thinks it's fake news.

they never had anything to begin with.

quite literally a nothing burger. But people are too complacent to be angry about the media leading a episodic escalation of nothing.

Also goes to show that the media controls everyone even when we are aware of it.

Thank you for this :D

Or if they didn't occur the way they had intended

Ill always be on muh guns bc its our only defense against tyrannical corrupt government

lol...MSM narrative to beats fucking rules!