Save me Robert Mueller-Kenobi, you're my only hope

Tricks are for whores, illusions Micheal.

Bees

Its all a WWE show.... Trump is Randy Orton and Hillary John Cena. They all work for the same company. Just enjoy the show.

Or hate it, whatever, but it's still all the same greedy shit conglomerate.

I'd be surprised there's still so many partisans in this sub, but hardly anything surprises me these days.

We all hate it, but unless you have unlimited resources the only thing we can do is survive.

it doesnt seem to be equal right now, but it usually is

I'd be surprised there's still so many partisans in this sub, but hardly anything surprises me these days.

Makes you wonder how many shill accounts are here. Would think a small minority would be partisan in this sub, but what do I know

A whole HELL of a lot. Most Reddit users would be shocked to know the true numbers, and overall effect of, the bots and shills all over this site.

If more people had the mental fortitude and critical thinking skills to form their own opinions, it really wouldn't matter. But they don't, so here we are.

"RUSSIAN COLLUSION, OUTA NOWHERE!!!"

Whatch out, whatch out ,whatch out!!!!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe

http://www.wwe.com/superstars/donald-trump

Non-Mobile link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kayfabe

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OH SHIT IS THAT VLAD PUTIN'S MUSIC

Its Rey "PUTIN" Misterio !!!!!

Does this mean we have five more years of Hillary/Trump hogging the main event from real workers, like Bernie(D Bry)?

Where is the SMOKING GUN that will get Trump out of office? There must be ONE only. And I want it in your words, not what he said she said.

There are several very realistic options to charge/impeach Trump with a crime:

1. Obstruction of justice. Comey firing, and very possible that there was criminal intentions behind the firing of Sally Yates and Preet Bharara. As well as pressuring James Comey to drop the investigation of Mike Flynn.

2. Financial crimes involving the Trump Org. The Trump Org has been laundering hundreds of millions for Kazak and Russian mafia organisations since 2005. Trump himself has been paid millions from these deals as well as retained ownership in the projects involved in the laundering operations. During these deals, Trump and the Russian and Kazak mafia associates committed large scale tax fraud, embezzlement, money laundering, and investment fraud. The largest operation was done in NY state, making it impossible for Trump to pardon state crimes involving tax fraud and money laundering. Even aside from the Kazak and Russian mafia operations, Donald Sr and Ivanka were heavily involved in a laundering operations ran by the Transportation Minister of Azerbaijan, who has used construction projects around the same time period to launder money for the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

3. Changing campaign and party positions under direction of Russian intelligence. This was done primarily through Paul Manafort. During the campaign, Paul Manafort was not paid a cent from campaign finances. I don't understand how this is not bigger, but Paul Manafort was in debt $35 million during the campaign to Oleg Deripaska and Dmytro Firtash, both figures which are heavily associated with Russian mafia organisations. Deripaska went on to essentially forgive Manafort's debt right before he became campaign manager, effectively paying him close to $10 million while he was paid nothing from the campaign. Manafort was also actively laundering millions during the campaign he previously received from work he did in Ukraine for Rinat Akhmetov Oleg Deripaska. While this was all happening, Manafort organised the efforts at the RNC to change the parties official stance on arming the Ukrainian army in their civil war. Several Manafort associates were engaged in these efforts and have went on the record acknowledging their involvement. Konstantin Kilimnik - a 'former' GRU officer - has admitted his involvement in the policy changing process. Rick Gates would have likely been involved in the process considering how much he previously worked with Manafort and Kilimnik in Ukraine as well. Aside from the RNC platform change, the June meeting at Trump Tower regarding the Magnitsky act is also another instance related to illegal influence peddling and lobbying. There is also a larger instance that likely ties into the big picture with the active negotiations by Trump himself to sign onto a Trump Tower Moscow deals while he was actively in the campaign. These Trump Tower efforts involved someone who was also very well connected to the Russian mafia.

Wut?

I said, IN YOUR OWN WORDS, what did Trump do to collude with Russia?

No you didn't. You asked specifically:

DISCUSS: Where is the SMOKING GUN that will get Trump out of office? There must be ONE only. And I want it in your words, not what he said she said.

You are moving the goal posts. The reasons I specified contained publicly available information regarding high crimes committed during the campaign, after the campaign, and crimes that Russian intelligence would have used for blackmail. These crimes would be, as you put it, 'will get Trump out of office'.

By putting up 3 scenarios, that means you don't have one and witch hunting. True definition.

Nixon was brought up on 3 articles of impeachment. So by precedent, you are able to impeach a president on multiple crimes, as well as crimes that were committed before coming to power.

Is it witch hunting if I point out all your idiotic comments, or should I focus on just the dumbest?

its important for these types to bring up as many fallacious arguments as possible to create the illusion of debate for zealots and those on the fence

logic! 3 smoking guns is worse than 1!

hm that logic still doesnt make any sense. those 3 have plenty of substance to make me think they could be true, and we will see when we see the results of the investigation. exciting stuff

You know you are free to refute anything I said in those three arguments.

He just gave you 3!!! Different reasons how trump could be impeached. Why don't you take the time and give him a real answer to why you think these 3 different scenarios are bullshit and why your beloved president is not guilty. I mean you are Adkin gor it and when people give you the answer you ignore it?? What kind of a behavior is that? If you want to troll, go somewhere else

Speaking of the Magnitsky Act, did you see that Trump just gave the Secretary of the Treasury and Secretary of State the power to add or remove any names they see fit from the Magnitsky Act financial and visa restrictions? This will allow allow Putin's wealthy buddies to clear out any assets they still had tied up in America without Trump directly getting involved, since Congress had effectively blocked him from doing so. I'm not sure why this isn't bigger news or why it hasn't been posted here yet.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/09/08/presidential-memorandum-secretary-state-and-secretary-treasury

Yeah I saw that. It will be interesting to see if Tillerson does anything about it though. Me personally, I would trust Tillerson to do the right thing before Trump ever did.

I agree, he has actually seemed pretty reasonable as Secretary of State so far. But wasn't ExxonMobil effected pretty heavily by these sanctions? Tillerson has a lot of incentive to start removing names from the list and dismantling the sanctions in any way he can. Although it looks like Tillerson only has power over visas and Mnuchin is in charge of the financial side of the Magnitsky Act. I have no clue where Mnuchin stands on all of this.

I have no clue where Mnuchin stands on all of this.

Mnuchin's only goal is to enrich all of his Goldman Sachs buddies and other billionaires. There is no benefit to him or to GS to enrich Russian oligarchs.

So why would Trump delegate the authority to these two people then? If they weren't going to do something there would be no need to give them the power at all. Unless they aren't planning on removing any names at all from the list, but adding more names to it. Certainly there are a few business rivals of Trump, Putin, or other associated billionaires that could really be hurt by adding their names to the sanctions.

But wasn't ExxonMobil effected pretty heavily by these sanctions

Different sanctions. The Magnitsky act just freezes certain U.S. assets of Russian oligarchs.

Ah, good point. Maybe I'm trying too hard to connect some of the dots here. The fact that Trump passed this power on to anyone is suspicious, but Tillerson's history might have nothing to do with it.

how strong is his relationship to exxon still? is he expected to go back to them after he is done in office?

I ask because tillerson has actually been a pleasantly semi competent force in the white house, at least on the surface

Yeah, he actually hasn't done much for me to complain about so maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree by trying to tie him into all of this. He's the one guy who should be the most suspicious in all of this but who's actions have been the least suspicious.

exxonmobil is not a favorable association, im really waiting for him to do something shady

hey, he might just be good at his job for whoever employs him. cant fault him too much for that. now his job is do the best work he can for the United States.

I'd love it if that ends up being true. That's certainly how it should be.

Absolutely none of those charges could ever stand. Leftists have nothing on Trump. If they did, it'd be leaked by now.

You keep posting that in this thread but it's an awful argument. Maybe Mueller just hires people who are professional enough not to leak anything while the investigation is still ongoing. Just because Trump's Whitehouse leaks like a sieve doesn't mean every branch of government has the same problem.

Has there ever been one shred of evidence that Donald Trump colluded in any way with the Russian government?

If this is a serious question, what sort of evidence are you looking for? Something like a secret meeting between his family, campaign manager, and other campaign staff and several Russian agents? Or how about the huge number of people on his staff who have connections to Putin, Russian oligarchs, Russian mobsters, Russian businesses, or some combination of all of these? Or how about the numerous members of his campaign, staff, and family who have lied about meetings, phone calls, discussions, contacts, and past affiliations with prominent Russians? Or how about the fact that congress had to pass a bill to prevent Trump from removing the sanctions on Russia since they didn't trust him not to do that, and then he gave that power to two of his staff members anyway? Every single one of these events all come back Russia.

what sort of evidence are you looking for?

Emails, phone calls, anything.

Something like a secret meeting between his family, campaign manager, and other campaign staff and several Russian agents?

Yes. Exactly. This never happened. The woman Don Jr met had absolutely NO RELATION to the Russian government and was previously paid by the DNC. Her FB page had pictures from Hillary fundraisers lol.

Or how about the huge number of people on his staff who have connections to Putin, Russian oligarchs, Russian mobsters, Russian businesses, or some combination of all of these?

In America, there's this thing called "Freedom of Association" and it's part of the 1st amendment. Ever heard of it? Because you have done business with Russian people in the past doesn't make you a Russian spy.

Are you some kind of communist? Do you think people should be thrown in jail for "Association" when they've been friends in the past with a criminal? What if your best friend right now kills someone ten years from now. Will you be in any way guilty for that crime? I mean, you did do business/have a friendship with that murderer so....

Or how about the fact that congress had to pass a bill to prevent Trump from removing the sanctions on Russia since they didn't trust him not to do that, and then he gave that power to two of his staff members anyway?

A bill that Congress passed proves there was collusion? Now you're going off the deep end bud.

You could have just said "I'm a troll" and saved us both a lot of typing.

No seriously. Every single thing you pointed to is complete bullshit nothingburger. Yet here you are.

Fine, I'll take your bait even though I know there is literally nothing I can say that would change your mind.

-You say no information was exchanged in the meeting but that is coming from the two people who repeatedly denied the meeting even took place. Then when that was proven to be a lie, they changed their story to it wasn't about Hillary. Then when THAT was proven to be a lie, they changed their story again. Why on earth would you trust this version of their story to suddenly be the truth?

-Freedom of association is the best you can come up with? The reason I mentioned that was to show how closely tied so many prominent people in this administration are with Russians. Trump himself has a long history of working with Russian mobsters. So now that you admit they all associate, what more evidence would you like to take it from "association" to "collusion"? Combined with all of these other meetings, emails, and repeated denials and lies, this has gone from smoke to fire.

-It's not the bill, it's Trump's attempt to subvert the bill to keep messing with the sanctions that is the problem. You even included that sentence in your quote.

answering the trolls is worthwhile because people reading can learn what is out there.

youll notice the trolls when asked to back up their assertions usually lean on 'look into it'

'do your own research'

'check this guys post history hes shareblue'

which is a clever and more convenient way of saying 'i have nothing'

That's how these threads usually go. "There's no proof of ______, go ahead and try to prove me wrong!" Then when people do provide proof they either respond with "That's not real proof!" or they just ignore it completely. Notice that OP mostly only responded to comments that agree with him or that are easy to dismiss.

He basically responded to my original post by moving goal posts and saying I gave too much information about crimes committed by Trump and I should narrow it does to one specific crime with regards to collusion. He said that having evidence of multiple crimes is evidence of a witch hunt.

LOL

-You say no information was exchanged in the meeting but that is coming from the two people who repeatedly denied the meeting even took place.

When was it ever denied?

Why on earth would you trust this version of their story to suddenly be the truth?

Because the text of all the emails were released and there was nothing there.

The reason I mentioned that was to show how closely tied so many prominent people in this administration are with Russians.

Again. Not a crime. lol

-It's not the bill, it's Trump's attempt to subvert the bill to keep messing with the sanctions that is the problem.

Keep grasping bud. NOTHING will ever come of the "Russia investigation" I promise you

why do you keep asking this even though you get answered every time

its almost as if the question is your goal, and not receiving answers

Hi DronePuppet, how ya doing?

dont have to be a leftist to hate corruption in your govt :)

What corruption? There's no evidence of anything lol.

what? cant hear you when youve got a mouth full of trump

Source: https://youtu.be/S-RsAGjUXtg

Bill Browder's testimony. Russia really REALLY doesnt like Browder...I wonder why.

I think OP was hoping for more wikileaks and hacking the DNC type responses. I congratulate you for avoiding these specious arguments.

I'm not sure that any of these guns are smokey enough or can be tied directly to Trump but we shall see.

I'm not sure that any of these guns are smokey enough or can be tied directly to Trump but we shall see.

The obstruction of justice charges are directly tied to Trump. Those are easy to point out. Plus they have the most impeach precedent behind them.

The financial crimes are also very easy to point out too. Trump made millions from huge money laundering operations from 2005 to his presidency, when he dropped all of the remaining deals because of the 'conflicts of interest'. Look at the Trump Soho development project. That entire corporate structure reeks of Kazak and Russian mafia involvement. That's not including Baku and Batumi deals.

Trump had the right to fire comey for not following protocol during the elections, but waiting to do so makes his gun very smokey. IANAL but proving obstruction of justice seems difficult. We'll see.

Any financial crimes (I'm sure there are multiple) that were committed before inauguration will have to wait until his time after office. You can't prosecute a sitting president for "petty" crimes.

That is unless his enterprise does some stupid, like a big foreign deal, whilst he is in office. Which is quite possible.

He went on national television and cited "this Russia thing" as his reason for firing Comey. Directly from his lips to God's ears. No filter, no spin, no editing. He straight up admitted it.

... but is that enough?

Enough to convict of obstruction? I mean it wasn't sworn testimony but he clearly admits where his head was at when he made the decision. Factor that in with him directly asking members of Congress to squash any investigation and I think it's a pretty clear cut case. He publicly pissed all over Sessions after he realized what the meaning of recusal was.

I dunno, I mean what could someone sitting on the fence need more to convince them than what's already publicly known.

IANAL but proving obstruction of justice seems difficult. We'll see.

Asking the head of the FBI to drop a criminal investigation into your National Security Adviser is obstruction of justice. There is no grey area there.

Any financial crimes (I'm sure there are multiple) that were committed before inauguration will have to wait until his time after office.

Clinton V Jones already established that a sitting president is not immune from litigation stemming from before they were president. So Trump is absolutely vulnerable to litigation regarding financial crimes committed before he became president. His children were also involved in those crimes, which opens another area of possible obstruction if Trump intervened or intervenes in any state level crime investigations regarding those deals.

That is unless his enterprise does some stupid, like a big foreign deal, whilst he is in office. Which is quite possible.

Those actually would not be of any legal liability to him considering he is not operating the Trump Org while he is president.

FBI investigations take longer than 9 months.

No they dont.

Nixon's sure did.

these people would have denied watergate if they had voted for nixon

umm, they do

It only took like 2 days for the FBI to read 30k+ clinton emails

what have you found in them? plenty of time since then. try not to use 4chan madlibs when investigating either

I don't man I'm not the FBI, but here are some interesting ones I came across

sacrificing animals to moloch was interesting https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/14333

With fingers crossed, the old rabbit's foot out of the box in the attic, I will be sacrificing a chicken in the backyard to Moloch . . .

Also Hillary owing penance to Lynne Rothschild was something https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/1570

To: Lynn Forester de Rothschild, Let me know what penance I owe you. And pls explain to Teddy. As ever, H

Are you fucking serious, the first one was clearly a joke.

dont be ableist. autists cant detect humor

Yes I can...

oh, I know honey. youre doing great

Thanks mom

this is a conspiracy sub if you want to tow the mainstream media narrative go back to a propaganda sub like politics

fuck you I post where i want :)

and what about the second one? lol

She is saying sorry for interrupting a previous enhancement, Tony Blair went to negotiations for peace in the middle east after Hillary asked him in stead of to Lynn Forester de Rothschild

Clearly a joke? Are we even in a conspiracy sub anymore?

Well according to this post (in the conspiracy sub) we must have concrete provable evidence about anything before making any claims about it so who knows?

I don't believe there is a US law against sacrificing animals to ancient Canaanite gods, but you are the expert I guess.

I didn't say it was against the law, I'm not in law enforcement lol and I clearly stated that in my first sentence.

you're ridiculous

It took them a few days to verify that the emails found were the same ones already reviewed. This could be done with software. Doesn't require agents reading through each email again.

What's going on with the report that Comey drafted Clinton exoneration before finishing investigation?

I don't know. Why ask me?

I imagine they were investigating for a while and all their evidence was pointing in one direction, so they began DRAFTING initial reports and finding. But nothing was finalized and submitted until the investigation was complete.

but you don't know so I guess your guess is as good as mine

You think Mueller is going to tell you everything he discovers as he discovers it?

its like theyve never seen how criminal investigations work.

orrrr theyre working overtime to try to influence public opinion. Too bad their positions are so weak and indefensible :(

They get all their lawyering from the picture box. So obviously real world situations are foreign to them.

Even if there is evidence, trumpy is going to be impeached, at least not yet. It'd make a complete mockery of us democracy.

This election already did that for us. All conspiracies aside, it was a shit show. We somehow ended up with two candidates who were each overwhelmingly hated by about half of the country. Out of all of the eligible people in the country these were the two we ended up choosing between. That felt like the real mockery of our democracy.

And we're not even supposed to be a democracy to begin with....

I'm not sure what it's like where you are, but in America they generally have to go through trials and investigations. The more serious the crime and/or more connected the defendant, the longer it can take to gather more evidence. Mueller is investigating, though it might take even longer before anything concrete is released to the public. It's just media conjecture right now until a trial starts.

Right. Until Mueller's team goes to trial the public basically only has limited information on exactly what is being done. There's some educated guesses based on who he's hiring and who he's been questioning, so it seems like Manafort might be screwed, but as it's an ongoing investigation they're trying to be tight-lipped about it. Not sure if your country's news will cover it, but I'm sure if you keep up with various news outlets online you will likely see notice of the trial when it commences.

this has been explained over and over again. leaks and trying someone in the court of public opinion is the wrong way to do work of this sort.

im beginning to think people who keep saying shit like 'why havent we seen the proof' dont want to see the proof and just want people to think its all bullshit to satisy either their ideology or their bosses

What makes you think a trial will ever commence, if you have no evidence that any sort of collusion took place?

I agree, there will be a trial.

A trial for what? What will the charges be, Nostradamus?

Why not email Mueller. Then you can also ask who will be on trial.

So you have no idea whether there will be a trial or not and you're just lying. Got it.

I agree, there will be a trial.

Bad bot.

Not a bot. Enjoy the trial.

What trial?

The trial at the end of Mueller's investigation. Or maybe near the end because I assume they'll keep looking into stuff. Enjoy the trial.

What makes you think that the investigation will end in a trial?

I don't know where you're from, but in the US they have trials instead of just assuming people are guilty.

I don't know where you're from, but in the US they don't have a trial without charges being filed.

Right.

So what charges will be filed, if there is going to be a trial?

Ask Mueller, or wait until it all gets started.

Ah so you know that there will be a trial, but you don't know what the charges will be. Glad we've established that you're an optimistic moron.

Is hostility and insults really necessary?

Wow you are one special kind of blind...

Any day now, that evidence is surely coming! lmao You guys have to realize by now that there was no collusion, you just can't or wont admit it.

What about Trump jr's meeting? Those are pretty awful and they lied about them with the president being the one to craft the lies for his son.

Oh by Trump Jr tried to help daddy. I wonder what people would say if Hillary's daughter did this, nothing obviously. You can't impeach a man for what his son has done. According to even MSM reports they can't take action realistically and the laws of the FEC protects Trump Jr. You are legally within your right to communicate with foreign nations, but not allowed to receive financial help. Which Hillary receive plenty of financial help let's talk about real collusion.

No, you are not allowed to receive anything of value from a foreign agent, info is valuable. Trump crafted the lie, knew of the meeting and covered it up, that is all illegal. If this was all okay, they would not have lied multiple times about who was involved, what was discussed and if anything was exchanged.

You might want to recheck laws from FEC website my friend. Information from foreign nations is not illegal.

If you want to critize Trump let's make sure Hillary gets arrested. If something happens to Trump but not Hillary then that will lead to bias situation. I don't see anyone here talk about Hillary's collusion but only Trump. I think I am starting to see who many people here serve.

Trump himself said that he would lock hillary up when in office but still didn't because there is nothing to talk about that is even close to happened with him. Information can definitely be argued to be illegal and even if that is proven not to be, the cover up is definitely illegal. The dirt was promised, he accepts the meeting, the lawyer they met with lobbied to end the magnitsky act, later in the election dirt is released, just this week magnistky act actions are being made. It is a pretty clear line from just public articles and knowledge that it is extremely possible that information was traded for international laws being changed.

But while I hope we remain to be not bias in this discussion let's also mention the facts on Trump Jr "meeting". We know the Russian Lawyer who he met was allowed into the US on a special occasion from Obama AG Loretta Lynch, we also know the Russian Lawyer who he met also has special ties into the Obama admin, we also know the translator between Trump Jr and the Russian Lawyer also was part of the Obama Admin.

So between the facts we know about this meeting. Could we also come to the concept that the Obama Admin secretly supported Trump and his family in this case or was Trump Jr set up?

What if instead the Obama admin doing all these things was just non biased. They let in people on a case by case basis and don't look for political motives to block entry into the US. I don't think they could have known the meeting would happen and she did have other reasons for entering the US, I think some lawsuit. Trump Jr. was not set up, the emails show he wanted this meeting and he knew who was involved, he himself has never stated that he was set up nor has anyone in the meeting I believe.

But you don't consider other possibilities. It makes it seems you hate Trump so much you are unwilling to consider other possibilities you are willing to disregard truth of other possible outcomes if Trump may possibly not get impeached.

I mean, I have the reasons for the Jr. meeting from his own emails and they are horrible, combime that with the lies and it leads to a massive coverup of a hidden meeting. There is no other evidence for alternate theories so they seem much less possible and even stupid, like they set this meeting up then don't tell anyone and use obama era people to conduct it? That seems dumb.

CBS reports Obama officials were at Trump Jr meeting with the Russian lawyer. Interpator came directly from the Obama admin. As for the meeting being hidden and or lied about. Was it not Assange who told Trump Jr to go ahead and reveal the meeting happen? Then Trump Jr released the email publically? Not sure where the lies and secrecy is because Trump Jr has been very open about it before it became Main Stream News.

First, they said they never had met with any russians during the campaign, then news came out from I believe the NYT that a meeting took place at Trump tower. Actually I found a timeline http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/01/politics/timeline-donald-trump-jr-/index.html He doesnt even tell the truth in the reveal, he says it was a 3 person meeting with goldstone, the russian and himself. After that the press lets them trickle truth for days before hitting them again and again with the actual events that they learned about. It went from a 3 person worthless meeting to an 8+ person meeting where at least one envelope was exchanged and Trump had a hand in crafting the apology his son gave out.

I've yet to hear what was so awful about Trump Jr.'s meeting. Literally anyone with half a brain in that position would jump at the opportunity for opposition research. I would have done the same thing, and there is nothing wrong with the meeting.

They said they had dirt on Hillary, and Trump Jr. was willing to listen. That isn't collusion or wrong in any way. If you think otherwise, you have been fooled by MSM propaganda.

In 2000 one of the candidates got info on their opponents and immediately told the FBI. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/al-gore-stephen-colbert-trump-election-campaign-1022007

It was a Russian lawyer, you cannot meet with foreign people to help win elections. They knew this and they lied about it.

It was a Russian lawyer, you cannot meet with foreign people to help win elections.

As a lawyer, WTF are you talking about? That is absolutely not true. If someone from another country says they have dirt on a candidate, you are absolutely allowed to listen to what they have to say. The fact that you think otherwise is pretty disturbing. Where do you get your info? Because you're clearly being fed fake news.

Making any contribution or donation of money or other thing of value, or making any expenditure, independent expenditure, or disbursement in connection with any federal, state or local election in the United States; https://www.fec.gov/updates/foreign-nationals/

Contribution - A gift, subscription, loan, advance or deposit of money or anything of value given to influence a federal election; or the payment by any person of compensation for the personal services of another person if those services are rendered without charge to a political committee for any purpose. 100.52(a) and 100.54.

Ah, I knew this was your line of thinking. Its flawed, though, because discussing something that might make a candidate look bad would not qualify as a thing of value under the Federal Election Campaign Act. This should be obvious to you since charges were never brought against Don Jr. and all legal experts agree that he did nothing illegal.

http://news.stanford.edu/2017/07/17/stanford-legal-experts-parse-trump-campaign-russia-connection-law/

So not all legal experts, and Jr. has testified about this meeting so they are/were looking to charge him, they just have not done it yet. And if the info wasn't of value, why were they discussing "russian adoption" which is just code word for the magnitsky act, it makes it seem like they were giving them something back.

I highly doubt you are a lawyer seeing as in your post history you also state, "As a Scientist..." Sounds like You are just full of bullshit.

Good detective work. I'm both! I work as a patent attorney.

Lol. No one believes you.

Who cares what random shills and morons on the internet think?

It's no use arguing with these people. They will exaggerate and blow up every example of "collusion" they can find and make it seem unprecedented.

Agreed. I'm not sure if "people" is the term I would use for them, as I doubt their posts are authentic.

None of them ever post here check their histories.

Yea, I've noticed. They are clearly not here because they are interested in conspiracy theories. Its quite sad that they stoop to these levels.

As a lawyer

Lol

It doesn't even bother you that they lied about it continually until they literally couldn't anymore?

Examples of lies?

"It was a short introductory meeting. I asked Jared (Kushner) and Paul (Manafort) to stop by. We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at the time and there was no follow up."

"I was asked to attend the meeting by an acquaintance, but was not told the name of the person I would be meeting with beforehand."

Hannity: "So as far as you know, as far as this incident is concerned, this is all of it?"

Trump Jr.: "This is everything. This is everything." (This was before it was revealed that Rinat Akhmetshin and Ike Kaveladze were also at the meeting)

Not seeing the lie, mind pointing it out to me? It might also help to know where you're getting your quotes.

I mean I assumed you read the emails.

It was not short and introductory, Manafort and Kushner were involved from the start instead of "stopping by", it was specifically campaign related, he knew exactly who he was meeting, and he had not revealed everything when he said he did on Hannity. Does that help you see the lies?

It was not short and introductory,

I heard that it was. Didn't Kushner text someone to call him so that he could get out of the meeting within 10 or 15 minutes? None of those sound like lies to me, seriously.

If NONE of those sound like lies to you then I really don't know what to say.

Are you Mueller?

Nope. And no evidence that Trump colluded with Russia will ever come out. Mark my words. Otherwise, it would have already. There is no way that sort of info wouldn't get leaked. Don't be naive.

This investigation is just a fishing expedition, anyway. It makes no sense to investigate something to see if you can find evidence for it. I say we investigate John McCain for assassinating JFK. Just because we have no evidence that he did doesn't mean that it doesn't exist! These investigations take time, we will find out when John McCain is put on trial.

Are you referring to Trump or the Trump campaign?

No, but I think he might be an alt of /u/bluefreon who was banned some time ago. I remember there being another account with "freon" in their name that was going around defending Trump too.

Is that the same person who talks about acid and has had acid in the name of some of their alts? I recall that person having multiple alts, switching whenever one gets banned, though I've never been as good as some at recognizing alts.

I'm not sure, possibly. I can't see the account history since it is suspended but I can see my RES tag on his name ("racist trump supporter") and the comment I tagged him from (one where he is talking about the war on white people and how white people are just genetically smarter than black people).

There's a few people who keep making alts to troll this sub, including an ex-mod. I'm fairly sure that ex-mod is still running around trying to agitate the sub and get anyone banned that isn't pro-Trump(at least I think that was his fetish).

Watergate took two years for a botched burglary and the President's feeble attempt at a cover-up. This investigation involves a hostile foreign govt interfering with the heart of American democracy.

Can you really NOT see the difference?

They might as well be investigating whether Trump assassinated JFK since there is no evidence of that, either.

Why do you expect the evidence to be published before the investigation is concluded?

Please elaborate.

You didn't answer his question.

Here's the most recent smoking gun, directly from the Whitehouse website.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/09/08/presidential-memorandum-secretary-state-and-secretary-treasury

Trump just gave the authority to remove names from the Magnitsky Act restrictions to his Secretary of Treasury and Secretary of State. This is what Russia has wanted all along since so many of Putin's very wealthy allies had their American financial investments frozen by the act. Congress had passed a bill that prevented Trump from personally lifting these and other sanctions so he thinks he has found a loophole by delegating the power to his subordinates. Even if congress determines this is in violation of their previous bill, it won't matter since it will likely be too late to stop the Russians from recovering all of their financial assets. Let's not forget that Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was also the head of ExxonMobil who had a very large oil investment in Russia blocked by these sanctions as well. He wouldn't have any motive to mess with these sanctions now would he?

So they infiltrated government to better relations with the Russians? Due to NWO globalists in our government fucking over numerous people from various countries. Sounds like they're frothing for WWIII. Oh I'm sorry that's the military industrial complex and NWO banking cartel looking to enslave the world in their debt scheme.

So because you say there isn't evidence, there isn't any?

You didn't ask me anything. Are you confusing me with someone else?

Again, the investigation is ongoing. Why do you think that anyone here has insider knowledge about an ongoing investigation?

Dude, fuck this guy, check the post history, there's no use talking to this user

That's not very nice. This user is being quite straightforward whereas you're complaining about them to others

Sad.

ad hominem, youve conceded you dont have an argument :)

Removed. Rule 4.

haha you want redditors to conduct the investigation instead of the bipartisan appointed special investigator?

YOU SIR, have an agenda.

Source: https://youtu.be/S-RsAGjUXtg

You should watch this if you already havent. Your logic is incomplete. Saying it SHOULD be anywhere is ridiculous. Itll go where it goes. Its an investigation.

Everything else leaked.... If there's nothing that's leaked by now, they have nothing. I mean, someone kept the Access Hollywood tape for 12 years. 12 YEARS they sat on that one. lol. They get nothing on Trump

Oh really?

What calls by Merkel have leaked? Can you post them please?

You don't remember a few years ago when Merkel got pissed off about they nsa hacking her phone?

Don't be obtuse, you implied the actual calls Merkel made were leaked. They never were.

I didn't imply anything. You have to admit that there have been leaks in the Trump Russia thing every week or so, the fact that no one has leaked anything damning is pretty telling. If they had any evidence that the Russians actually interfered with the election then trump would be impeached like yesterday

This is not true.

The majority of "leaks" that have been coming from the investigation revolve around what people have said about it or what they think about it. None of the actual evidence has leaked because:

1) it doesn't exist. This probably isn't the case, as the investigation has gone pretty far. Remember, systematically a lot of stuff from the Steele document has been proven correct. 2) the investigators don't leak evidence because this is what they do professionally.

It doesn't matter whether anything leaks or not. If nothing leaks, Trump supporters say "Aha! They don't have anything."

If something does leak, they're just going to cry "Fake News!!!" so what's the point?

And as Boxmasterman says, these guys don't leak, because they're the best in the business, and their reputations would be destroyed if stuff started getting out, costing them and their firms millions.

So you admit that no calls got leaked despite claiming "Everything else leaked"?

I didn't claim everything else leaked. Did you malfunction or something? I couldn't care less if Merkel's shit got leaked, it happened years ago and doesn't affect my life whatsoever

I didn' t say that it was you who made that claim.

how do you know merkel got hacked?

how do you know the nsa hacked her phone?

Snowden, iirc.

but did you see the proof?

leaks stopped when we got a special investigator appointed. now the leaks go to him :)

THAT is the proper way to conduct an investigation

Maybe they're just taking security very seriously(with damn good reasons). Kinda makes ya wonder why our President can't run as tight a ship.

If no evidence has been published, why does the media report on it so much?

Don't know why you're being downvoted, it's bias. Innocent until proven guilty

Unless you run a pizza place, then you're guilty and should be hanged.

Have you met the media? I've been saying this on other posts, but anyone confused by the media needs to watch "Network" a movie made in 1976. The news was changed from a journalistic model to a profit model because managers and middle men took charge of the programming.

Trump just acts like a narcissistic bumbling idiot to put us off the scent. He is actually a genius criminal mastermind!

Did you forget the /s?

i think he was surrounded by more ruthless, cunning (some less than others) men than he

Probably

yeah its made up, but it doesnt make trump legit. he's still a puppet

And why this is not only not common knowledge, but DOWNVOTED, in this sub, is beyond me.

Hi there OP, why do you support the Russian interference in the U.S. election?

And why do you post the pro-Russian talking point that there is no evidence when Trump's own son is evidence of that co-operation?

When, several U.S. Congress members are openly supporting the Russian's?

This is just more narrative dialog control and it is shameful that this sub is so anti-American and pro-Russian.

Why should Americans be anti Russia?

It is traditional to harbor such feelings against that which to destroy you.

They have a global agenda to eliminate any/all governments with guaranteed individual rights especially that notion of self governance.

Maybe you should tell me why you want a Russian system?

I'm confused? Are we talking about America or Russia?

Oh, I see. Just tell us what is so great about Russia?

I dont think Russia is great, although I do appreciate Kate the work theyve done fighting ISIS in Syria. I just think they get shitted on by the neocons in America who look out for their own interests

Don't you have a deadline for your next RT segment? Why are you on Reddit?

the whole point of russia today is to get russias perspective in front of english language audiences :)

Huh? Why don't you like Russia

beep beep beep beep

whoa my detector is going crazy right now

?

Hi there OP, why do you support the Russian interference in the U.S. election?

There's absolutely no proof of Russian interference. If there was, it'd have been leaked by now. "But Don Jr." That woman was a democrat supporter and had been paid by the DNC in the past.

If there was, it'd have been leaked by now.

Pure speculation.

Isn't the idea that any collusion at all happened pure speculation too?

No. There's an ongoing investigation so obviously there's evidence.

What's the evidence?

How would I know? It's an ongoing investigation.

Are you paying any attention?

You really don't know how investigations work do you

Usually there's a crime, and then that crime is investigated right? Is there ever a murder investigation BEFORE someone is murdered?

Right, so by your admitted logic there was a crime and it's now under investigation investigation lol. Your spam defense is melting your brain

Right, so by your admitted logic there was a crime

Dude. What was the crime?

Collision is one crime they are looking into. And as you say, after a crime is committed an investigation happens. And guess what? An investigation is not only happening, but continues to grow.

Collision is one crime they are looking into.

Where's evidence of collusion?

Meeting with Don Jr, Flynn's numerous meetings. Lots of lies and cover ups, which is evidence. That's just some of the publicly known stuff. Hence, an investigation. Watergate took years for the case, investigations are not instant.

Don jr meeting was a cold call from a random Russian chick. This PROVES there was no collision. How? Because if trump had a direct line to the kremlin, don jr would never have met with the chick to begin with, there'd be no need to.

God you Russia tards are hilarious. How hard can you fall for deep state lies. You're a joke

Yup it's so simple, that's why there's a big investigation huh. What an innocent meeting, why'd he lie about it so often? lol you didn't even touch Flynn.

Probably money laundering

That has NOTHING to do with Russia if so. If they try to get him on that, it will prove he never colluded. Because if he did collude, they'd wouldn't have to go the laundering route

The theory is that he was laundering Russian oligarch money.

Let's get DT under oath and see how long he can go before lying. I put the over/under at 10minutes.

There needs to be evidence of a crime before an investigation is stated.

A dead body e.g. is evidence.

A witness statement is evidence.

And what evidence is there that trump was in direct contact with the krwmlin? An email? Phone recording? "It's a secret!" Rigggghjttt and it always will be

Who is claiming that he was?

Wait..... Hoollllllddddd up. So when you say "Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians" you actually don't mean that Putin directly helped him? lololololol. What does "Collusion with the Russian government" mean in your mind?

Jeez. The more I talk to Russiatards the more I feel bad for you guys. You: "TRUMP COLLUDED WITH RUSSIA" me: "So he talked with people in the Kremlin" You: "I DIDNT SAY THAT!" lol What is going on my man?

So when you say "Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians"

I never said that.

Why are you lying?

So you agree that there was no collusion?

No. I don't know if there was collusion.

You do realize that apart form Yes and No there is also the option "I don't know"?

So, why are you claiming that I stated "Trump is guilty of collusion with the Russians"?

Do you admit that this was a lie?

No. I don't know if there was collusion.

Was there a crime at all?

How should I know? Why are you asking me?

That's for the investigation to figure out.

Do you actually understand what we are discussing here?

Thank you for making a further contribution to the message control and gas lighting.

If you assert that a crime took place, the burden of proof is on you.

There is an investigation in progress. If up to now you want to pretend there is "no evidence," I expect you will go to your grave making the same claim, no matter what is produced.

There is an investigation in progress.

Do investigations start before or after a crime has taken place? What crime did Trump commit to warrant an investigation?

See what the problem is here? CRIMES get investigated. There has been no crime so how can there be an investigation? This is called fishing....

There is an investigation because there is evidence of a crime.

Denying the existence of the evidence doesn't mean there isn't any evidence.

because there is evidence of a crime.

What evidence?

Denying the existence of the evidence doesn't mean there isn't any evidence.

So what's the evidence?

It is still secret, but you do know that EU intelligence agencies reported to US intelligence there were meetings happening as early as March of 2016. Did you forget why Flynn resigned, why Sessions had to recuse himself? And why the flap about the Comey firing?

And why has the former head of Homeland Security been put in place as Trump's Chief of Staff?

It is still secret,

Ahhhhh still SECRET. Riiiiighhhhhttt. Anytime now that SECRET evidence is gonna be released and Trump will be taken to jail right? How many years will go by before you could believe that nothing exists? Say in 3 years, there's still nothing. Will you still be talking about this? Believing the Russia lie? Will you take it to your grave? What a mindless sheep. SECRET EVIDENCE from the deep state and you believe it lol

Did you forget why Flynn resigned, why Sessions had to recuse himself? And why the flap about the Comey firing?

None of these are evidence of a crime lol. Are you a crazy person?

And why has the former head of Homeland Security been put in place as Trump's Chief of Staff?

Let me guess..... Because RUSSSIIAAAA REEEEEEEE. Fucking whack a doo.

I admit I don't have much hope for us. But I do wonder just what you find attractive about the Russian system and why you want it for the U.S.A.?

But I do wonder just what you find attractive about the Russian system and why you want it for the U.S.A.?

Is Trump installing the "Russian System" in America????? LOL. I don't want the Russian system. I want the classic American system. That's why I voted Trump, that's why I'm 1000% behind him. There is not a single thing he's done that indicates to me he's Pro-Communist.

All he's done is help the working class of ALL RACES, GENDERS, AND ETHNICITIES. Ending the TPP saved the working class in this country. Securing the border again will save the working class and raise wages. Trump has done nothing but good (so far) for ALL American citizens. (Sucks that it hasn't been good for illegals but they are welcome back if they follow the rules.)

Uh Russia hasn't been Commie since the Soviet Union fell back in the early 1990s.

LOL on your belief that Trump has helped you, he has in fact reduced income for millions.

he has in fact reduced income for millions.

??? 1 million new jobs. My portfolio is up 25%. Manufacturing coming back to the US. Lowest unemployment rate in 20 years. 3% GDP growth. Are we living on the same planet?

Oh that stock thing is a manipulated bubble. The target is pension funds and especially private IRAs and 401Ks.

The income reduction is by undoing the Obama Executive orders that required all those privatized for profit from tax money contractors to pay their employees a $10 minimum wage, those contractors can now return to the pitiful $7.50/hr minimum wage.

The other wage reduction is the undoing of the executive order that regulated how employers determine overtime pay. You lost all workers lost.

I think you are exaggerating the GDP numbers.

And fuck Donald Trump.

The other wage reduction is the undoing of the executive order that regulated how employers determine overtime pay. You lost all workers lost.

You sound like you really care about wages. Do you also support Sanctuary Cities and DACA? Illegal immigration lowers wages. Even Karl Marx wrote about how the Capitalists use the "Unemployed Labor Army" of immigrants to oppress the working class.

Illegal immigration oppresses the working class proletariat but liberals continue to use their privilege to fool you into voting for them.

That is amazing, your boy Trump cuts the wages of millions of workers and you move the topic to

Sanctuary cities and DACA. This liberal has always been opposed to illegal immigration, but this this liberal believes it can only be stopped by harsh sanctions against the employers.

Not treating humans like cattle.

Do you?

your boy Trump cuts the wages of millions of workers and you move the topic to

How can Trump "cut wages"? lol. If someone doesn't have the skills to make $10 hour, then they don't deserve that money. Minimum wage is complete bullshit. If minimum wage worked, why not just make it $100/hour for everyone? Why doesn't anyone do that, can you answer?

Seattle literally just tried $15/hour and it HURT WORKERS. Proof: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/26/business/economy/seattle-minimum-wage.html

Tard leftist.

This liberal has always been opposed to illegal immigration,

At least you have a tiny shred of sanity left in you. Please don't go full commie on me boss.

Not treating humans like cattle.

"Socialism makes herd animals out of men", Nietzsche. Only the people that demand "Equality for all!" are cattle. Men are not equal and when we try to force it to be that way, everything collapses. Id rather have FREEDOM than free healthcare and free college.

Leftists want to be taken care of by Daddy. Conservatives want freedom and liberty. That's why I'm on the right. I used to be full marxist in college, until I got out into the real world and actually had to earn a living for my family. How old are you? Do you have to provide for a wife and kids?

Something tells me you are a childless atheist.

I don't think we live in the same dimension.

If you want have a conversation, I would suggest not calling said partner, a

Tard leftist.

Bye now.

You are a stooge that has fallen for another deep state lie. Did you also believe there were nukes in saddams basement? The same people that made up this lie made up that one.

lmao you would make the absolute worst criminal investigator.

'prove the crime happened, then investigate it! dont start the investigation until you know everything!'

fired.

'prove the crime happened, then investigate it!

Are you retarded here? Yes, there needs to be a crime that happens before there's an investigation lol. Otherwise, why are there an infinite amount of investigations going on right now into every future crime that will happen?

No.

There needs to be evidence of a crime.

You are highly confused.

So a murder investigation can start before anyone dies?

A dead person might be evidence of a murder.

Exactly. And do ever start a murder investigation without a dead body?

If there is evidence of a murder, sure.

E.g. a video of someone getting shot.

And so what's the evidence of Trump colluding with the Russian government?

Why are you asking me? I never accused Trump of collusion.

Are you confusing me with someone else?

You seem to be very confused.

Do you think the group of people that signed on just did it for shits n giggles? It's not too far-fetched to assume that what they had seen/were shown gave them some good reasons to get on board no??

its on mueller and his ever growing team of Prosecutors. weird that hes hiring prosecutors and not really too many investigators i wonder what that means

That woman was a democrat supporter and had been paid by the DNC in the past.

Source(for either of those claims)? She's an anti gay anti SJW conservative person, and I haven't heard anything about her being paid by the dnc.

Right here: http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/07/well-lookie-russian-lawyer-veselnitskaya-pictured-obama-ambassador-russia-8-days-trump-jr-mtg/

She is not anti gay, not "anti SJW". She is part of the DNC

Uh, is your evidence that she is "part of the dnc" that she was behind obama's ambassador during a hearing? You should look up who reserved her seat there...

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/russian-lawyer-obtained-hill-hearing-seat-florida-trump/story?id=48661448

You can see how she is anti sjw by the comments she made about the pussy hat march when she was in town for one.

I think we're getting ahead of ourselves. Where's the evidence that Russia interfered in the first place?

hahaha

Lol get on twitter? What evidence is there

you can see it first hand

Lol who the fuck is Brian Krebs? Get off twitter babe. I'm not sure claims by some random dude constitute as proof, do you?

Either way, am I to understand you have a problem with all bots or just Russian bots?

umm it doesnt matter who he is really, but he is a guy who had a very public run in with them. who he is isnt the point, but i wouldnt expect you to focus on the point when a red herring is so much more in line with your goals :)

in case you were interested in who he is:

Brian Krebs is an American journalist and investigative reporter. He is best known for his coverage of profit-seeking cybercriminals.

My goals? What're my goals? What're your goals?

Can anyone claim they've had a run in with "Russian" bots or is it something only certain people can do?

Are you only concerned with Russian bots or do you have a problem with all bots? Any thoughts on the neoliberal bots and shills on Reddit?

Or is your goal only anti Russia

If he had something very compelling it would probably be leaked somehow. But if he has good control over his team he could be holding the reveal of the smoking gun for just before the midterms so that the entire GOP can be smeared and Congress re-taken.

or he is holding it until the case is solid in which case he will move in for the kill

this really shouldnt be a political thing, but a justice thing

Like with every rich corrupt entity the chances of anything happening are basically non existent.

Out of curiosity what do people gain by having these one issue accounts dedicated to nothing but defending and worshiping ?

Yeah there's a few of these kind of accounts around here that only post about the Trump Russia conspiracy and pretty much nothing else.

Provide the answer or gtfo. We're not here to redirect the narrative just cuz you don't like the question. No one made you comment

Answer to what question ? The durrr smoking gun ? Since when do powerful or rich people have to pay for their crimes ?

Also it's pretty easy to answer the question in the title our intelligence service isn't even a small time contractor by comparison to established services like the fsb and nsa/cia and who knows where their loyalties even today lie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gehlen_Organization with that history.

Why after 30 years of invetigating Hillary has nobody been able to find anything!? Makes sense?

Whenever I ask where is the evidence for the last 30 years, they go ... soon. And I have been asking this for 3 months now, and they still say soon . WTF???? Seriously, I am going to trademark this: Soon(TM)

DISCUSS: Where is the SMOKING GUN that will get Hillary in to prison? There must be ONE only. And I want it in your words, not what he said she said.

Don't place links to Breitbart, Fox or so called fact checkers, because they are fake news and I will call it out as so.

Isn't this where a shill would yell "whataboutism?"

Eh, it's more of a parody.

Make a new post about this exact thing here and it would be disappeared.

All of the investigators mysteriously die.

That's a lie

Hillary has her tentacles all over washington in the form of blackmail, inbreeding (so many relatives of her are involved with high profile decision makers), and bribing (through money/slush funds/weapons/property/favors....etc)

You must be one of those people who thinks Wikileaks is Russian propaganda and puts out fake documents.

All the info they put out can be 100% legit. That doesn't mean they aren't a Russian cutout/whatever.

Never before has Wikileaks been accused of being a Russian cutout. Not when they released information on the wars in Middle East, not when they revealed torture info. Now they release info on Hillary Clinton, media claims Wikileaks is Putin's puppet and the gullible zombies repeat the lies.

She might be too big to jail. You know like the Wall Street executives that were never prosecuted after 08.

Or the ones that joined Trumps administration?

https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/8190

Do you remember this email to John podesta from Michael foreman. Foreman was the executive from Citibank during 08 presidential election and he sent podesta who was chair of Obama's transition team a list of people and the cabinet positions he wanted them in. Check the attachments.

The cabinet list ended up being almost entirely right. Holder for Justice Department, Napolitano for Homeland Security, Robert Gates for Defense, Rahm Emanuel for COS, Peter Orszag for OMB, Arne Duncan for Education, Eric Shinseki for Veterans Affairs, Kathleen Sebelius for HHS, Melody Barnes for the Domestic Policy Council, and more. For the Treasury, three possibilities were on the list: Robert Rubin, Larry Summers, and Timothy Geithner.

He sent this email on Oct 6 a full month before Obama was actually elected. So we have this executive from Citigroup who received the largest bailout during the financial crisis and he picks Obamas cabinet.

Do you think Obama ever wanted to see these Wall Street executives face charges or do you think he wanted to keep the "too big to jail" saying alive?

Lol keep deflecting

Good lord

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Froman

This was not some secret missive from their Wall Street overloads giving them a list of names to appoint and they just did it.
He was an official part of Obama's 2008 transition team and a policy advisor to him since 2004.

By OPs logic as displayed in responses here Hillary hasn't been nailed down because there were so many investigations. They should have just chose one thing and stuck to that instead of investigating several possible crimes.

I understand your point but the presidency is the most powerful office on this planet. Impeachment isn't some minor, insignificant thing. Any investigation like this shouldn't be quick for the sake of being quick. The investigation into Watergate took YEARS.

People are too wrapped up in the collusion aspect of this when Mueller has been given authority to go after any criminal act he may uncover during his investigation. That means tax fraud or money laundering charges for Paul Manafort and charges of lying to the FBI for Michael Flynn.

Realistically, collusion could not even be the outcome here. We won't know until the investigation is over.

Impeachment isn't some minor, insignificant thing

I agree, but they've also been shouting "IMPEACHMENT" for almost the entire time as well, including filing for it even though they really don't have much of a reason to impeach him.

Russian collusion seems likely, but there is no solid public proof of that right now. Obstruction of justice and emoluments clause violations are basically public knowledge, though. Combined with the fact that Trump is really bad at the job of being president regardless of his politics, it seems pretty reasonable to want to impeach him already, before the verdict on the really treasonous stuff is in.

I missed when it became public knowledge that he was found guilty of obstructing justice and emoluments.. If your opinion of him being "bad at the job" is reason for impeachment you need to step back into reality.

They spied on Trump and his team for months, they have yet to put forward prof that Trump colluded with Putin and you still think they're going to find it? Come on man, if collusion happened they would have shown proof 9 months ago.

I missed when it became public knowledge that he was found guilty of obstructing justice and emoluments.

What a disingenuous misreading of what I said. Because of the President's position in the legal system, it's basically impossible for the President to be "found guilty of" a crime outside of impeachment. Impeachment is the mechanism through which these crimes would be punished. So you're essentially saying "You think Trump did something that deserves impeachment? How come he hasn't been impeached then HUH???" You can't use whether he's been "found guilty" of these things as your baseline for whether he should even be suspected for them.

I say it's basically common knowledge that he did them because they are public actions that anyone can easily see happening. In the case of firing Comey being obstruction of justice, he even personally admitted his reasoning for doing it (to interfere with the Russia investigation targeting his campaign) in a publicly broadcasted interview.

They spied on Trump and his team for months, they have yet to put forward prof that Trump colluded with Putin and you still think they're going to find it?

I hope this happened, but I haven't seen any proof of it yet. In fact, the Trump administration recently admitted that the accusation that Trump tower was wiretapped was a completely fabricated lie.

Come on man, if collusion happened they would have shown proof 9 months ago.

Depending on who had the proof, and at what time. Mueller's investigation is not complete, so there's no reason to believe that any unique information he has would be known by the public. Because it's not supposed to be. Saying "if any proof exists, we would know about it" is tantamount to saying "it's impossible for any organization to keep information secret", which is pretty close to the conclusion "conspiracies cannot exist", which I find very interesting for this sub.

You must have missed when McCabe said that Comey's firing did not affect the Russia investigation in the senate hearing. No matter what the media says to make you believe Trump obstructed justice, that fact that the acting FBI director said those accusation were false means there was no obstruction.

So when Obama officials went in and got the transcripts of trump team calls you don't consider this spying? Trump put wiretap in quotations for a reason.

Trump's enemies in the government have been leaking secrets and classified info for close to a year now. It's reasonable to think that if they possessed real proof of trump colliding with Russia that they would have leaked it by now. Honestly your arguments are so flat. I can't believe I'm wasting my life arguing about this.

Him firing the FBI director to stop him from investigating his ties to Russia is public knowledge. Trump even said so himself.

The emoluments clause part is referring to the many business deals that have happened and profits he has had that coincide all to well with various statements and etc. Essentially this also brings up his unwillingness to put his businesses in a blind trust. This is, however, less clear cut than obstruction of justice.

He has not been sentenced of anything yet, but these things take a long ass time. There is clear evidence and admission that James Comey was fired for investigating ties to Russia. That is obstruction of justice. This is known.

You're not a real person. This is known. You literally post the exact same thing as the other fake person.

Are you trying to claim that Trump never said that he fired the FBI director because of his Russia probe? That would be a very stupid claim to make considering how well documented his statements are.

Are you trying to claim that firing the FBI director to stop an investigation is not obstruction of justice? If so I would be very interested in your definition of obstruction of justice and why you have chosen one that does not align with the courts.

Or are you just deflecting blame from your favourite political race-horse with an ad hominum? Almost like you were, oh what's the term...a shill?

It doesn't matter what Trump said. He has the power to fire the FBI director for any reason. He can also pardon anyone for any reason so do pardons count as obstruction? No. Trump didn't say he wanted to stop the Russia investigation, in fact Comey's memo claimed that Trump told him it would be good to know if any of his staff did collude. The investigation is still ongoing and the actin director told the senate that Comey's firing had not obstructed the investigation.

Removed. Rule 10.

I do want to point out that that was clearly a joke, or at least it seemed to be clear when I wrote it. If it wasn't clear I apologise.

If your opinion of him being "bad at the job" is reason for impeachment you need to step back into reality.

Others may disagree

Hahaha is this supposed to prove your point?

Most powerful office on this planet? Waaaaaat? This is xenophobic bullshit. American supremacy is Propaganda 101, scratch that, 090...

Name another

For one, UN sanctions are pretty fucking powerful. I think the Pope has more clout. And any country with nukes is at least in the arena of the US President, albeit we have the biggest military toys. If China announced no further trade w us, our economy would collapse.

People like you seem to think that our economic relationship with China is a one way street. They stand to lose as much as we do if our economic relationship failed. So while you think you're clever for pointing out "If China announced no further trade w us, our economy would collapse." I'll say, "if the US stopped trade with China, their economy would collapse". And we would advance the argument not at all.

Stop saying shit like this, it's getting annoying and useless.

Nope:

Way to push the argument forward.

Use your own words, your own thoughts, culminated from multiple sources. But good job on giving me another article, helps a lot.

This isn't a college course, and you ain't the professor. My username escapes you.

You couldn't just admit you were incorrect? Why push a false narrative?

When you are the head of the world's greatest economy in known history and you have the greatest military on earth at your disposal and you can literally END THE FUCKING PLANET as we know it with a few words to set off nuclear strikes then yes, its the most powerful office on the planet. Lol

These are facts. You may not like them but that's beside the point.

Congress has more power, legally. And I'd say the intelligence agencies rule both those branches.

This idea that any US President could spontaneously nuke folks is outrageous.

The president has sole authority to use nuclear weapons. You may call that outrageous but facts are facts.

If only they put the same effort into investigating Podesta/Alefantis/Seth Rich/Benghazi/Missing Emails/Voter Fraud/Arkansides/Rape etc etc etc

Trump is the most vetted man in history. Everyone was trying to dig up dirt on him during the election and the best they got was a 12 year old video of some locker talk.

There's nothing there. And it should be disturbing to everyone that Mueller's investigation had zero evidence of anything to begin with.

Trump is the most vetted man in history.

I die of laughter everytime I see this. The man that has essentially told the Special Counsel, please don't look at my finances, look over there, but don't you dare look at my finances. That would be a red line.

Also, if you did a bit of searching outside of MSM bullshit shock jock reporting, you would have known about the financial fraud at Trump University, as well as the $10 fine his casino's received from FinCEN regarding money laundering violations. Those are very base level financial crimes. There are much more important ones regarding Trump Soho.

wheres the proof they spied on Merkels phone?

Thank you. I've been saying this shit for months. The NSA can see everything, so too can the CIA. If there was something it would have come out. Unless of course they're using the data to blackmail Trump…

yeah! why is it so hard to believe that the Obama administration could've wiretapped Trump?

Everyone knows by now that the Russia stuff was always bullshit. But the Deep State will try to drag out this "investigation" for as long as possible in order to be a thorn in Trump's side. Its actually pathetic.

How would you describe hounding a President for a bj?

Yeah...one's an unsecured cell phone. The other is a massive technical spy operation done by the highest levels of a global power, designed to cover its tracks the entire time.

The smoking gun, frankly, is him firing Comey. It's obstruction of justice plain and simple.

Even Bannon admits that

Where did Bannon do that?

http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-bannon-firing-james-comey-biggest-mistake-in-modern-political-history-2017-9

The Russian conspiracy is nonsense anyone that actively believes something that is pushed this extensively by the mainstream media and even Hillary fucking Clinton needs to accept they're not here for conspiracies they're here cause they're butthurt their candidate lost.

The Russian Story is dead in the water.

This is Skip Folden's report that was shared with members of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

Non-Existent Foundation for Russian Hacking Charge

Check out the sourced intel and reports in that lengthy report that has been sent to relevant instances already.

Anyone that still clings to this fabricated story is deluding themselves.

The investigation is still ongoing. You trump supporters are delusional.

SHILLS EVERYWHERE! lolz...no way my russia narrative isnt real! santa is real! Its real! how dare you!

Great argument.

The link between Alfa Bank and Trump tower is some pretty solid evidence.

Tiny Hands Jr. accepting a meeting to get some dirt on Clinton is some pretty solid evidence.

Agent orange actively pursuing a business deal in Moscow while simultaneously lying about it in interviews and licking putin's ass every chance he got is some pretty solid evidence.

I get that you want to pretend there's no evidence. I get that we are never going to agree.

That's why it's great that we have at least three separate organizations investigating this.

You and I have different understandings of the Alfa Bank/ Trump Tower link. It was never used to conduct legitimate business. How do we know? There were only a handful of pings designed to hide the message being piggybacked on the signal. They happened within hours of trump making statements about new dirt to drop on Clinton and leaks being released. Those were the only times the servers talked to each other.

So your 'reasonable fact' doesn't make any sense.

Within hours of jr sending the email saying 'I love me some Clinton dirt' daddy big hands tweeted 'stay tuned big clinton dirt incoming'. As far as the law is concerned it doesn't matter if it's attempted collusion that results in a nothing burger or attempted collusion that results in a big Wikileaks dump.

So it doesn't matter wether you think that's weak or not. The law doesn't really care what you think.

But, none of this really matters. You're one of the people agent orange talks about when he says 'I can shoot a motherfucker and the morons who follow me won't give a fuck'. And I'm one of those people who likes to understand the law, reality, and wait for the multiple people investigating this narcissistic sociopath to present all the evidence they've gathered.

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/betternews] So the Americans have the tech to spy on Merkel's mobile but cannot find any proof Trump colluded with Russia .... for 10 months!? Make sense?

^{If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)}

Oh yes, evidence of an ongoing international investigation isp gonna be online, for your perusal, because you demanded it... FFS

If the Wall Street guys in Trump's administration helped cause the financial crisis then why didn't Obama's DOJ prosecute them? Maybe they gave enough to his presidential campaign to make a friend in the Oval Office.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/jan/23/untouchables-wall-street-prosecutions-obama

How would anyone here have the evidence? What a shit post.

How does that make it better. An executive of Citibank who would later receive the largest bailout was Obamas advisor starting in 04 and then gave him a list of cabinet members and most of them ended up being chosen.

Oh really?

What calls by Merkel have leaked? Can you post them please?

because there is evidence of a crime.

What evidence?

Denying the existence of the evidence doesn't mean there isn't any evidence.

So what's the evidence?

leaks stopped when we got a special investigator appointed. now the leaks go to him :)

THAT is the proper way to conduct an investigation

being partisan in a conspiracy sub as a (former) mod is pretty hilarious, if you think about it

No, you are not allowed to receive anything of value from a foreign agent, info is valuable. Trump crafted the lie, knew of the meeting and covered it up, that is all illegal. If this was all okay, they would not have lied multiple times about who was involved, what was discussed and if anything was exchanged.

http://news.stanford.edu/2017/07/17/stanford-legal-experts-parse-trump-campaign-russia-connection-law/

So not all legal experts, and Jr. has testified about this meeting so they are/were looking to charge him, they just have not done it yet. And if the info wasn't of value, why were they discussing "russian adoption" which is just code word for the magnitsky act, it makes it seem like they were giving them something back.

Bad bot.

he has in fact reduced income for millions.

??? 1 million new jobs. My portfolio is up 25%. Manufacturing coming back to the US. Lowest unemployment rate in 20 years. 3% GDP growth. Are we living on the same planet?

For one, UN sanctions are pretty fucking powerful. I think the Pope has more clout. And any country with nukes is at least in the arena of the US President, albeit we have the biggest military toys. If China announced no further trade w us, our economy would collapse.

I missed when it became public knowledge that he was found guilty of obstructing justice and emoluments.. If your opinion of him being "bad at the job" is reason for impeachment you need to step back into reality.

They spied on Trump and his team for months, they have yet to put forward prof that Trump colluded with Putin and you still think they're going to find it? Come on man, if collusion happened they would have shown proof 9 months ago.

hm that logic still doesnt make any sense. those 3 have plenty of substance to make me think they could be true, and we will see when we see the results of the investigation. exciting stuff

You know you are free to refute anything I said in those three arguments.

Maybe they're just taking security very seriously(with damn good reasons). Kinda makes ya wonder why our President can't run as tight a ship.

You are a stooge that has fallen for another deep state lie. Did you also believe there were nukes in saddams basement? The same people that made up this lie made up that one.

Exactly. And do ever start a murder investigation without a dead body?

It doesn't matter what Trump said. He has the power to fire the FBI director for any reason. He can also pardon anyone for any reason so do pardons count as obstruction? No. Trump didn't say he wanted to stop the Russia investigation, in fact Comey's memo claimed that Trump told him it would be good to know if any of his staff did collude. The investigation is still ongoing and the actin director told the senate that Comey's firing had not obstructed the investigation.

Removed. Rule 10.