I'm confused by your post. What's the main idea that you want us to take away from this? Are you a doctor or "an actual scientist"? You're giving us your personal sentiment on multiple issues from multiple perspectives without any research. Are we complaining about the people who hype cannabis cures or are we complaining about people who think the industry itself is hiding the cures to cancer? Or just anyone who is suspicious of the pharma industry in general?
Credentials wise, I have a BS in Biology and a Masters in Biochemistry and have done research in genetics and cancer biology. I'm going to medical school for an md/phd next year as well. I wrote this because I think people who believe that there is a conspiracy to hide cures and are hyped about cannabis are misguided and that their characterizations of doctors are often inaccurate.
Ok, fair enough. I don't think your credentials warranted a post like this with such confidence, but your opinion is just as welcome as anyone else's here.
"That brings me to my main point, doctors devote their entire lives to becoming masters of their craft and protectors of their patients."
nope. they devote their lives to indoctrination (look closely into this word) into a system that has proven ineffective over many many years. "doctors" are criminals at worst, ignorant at best, and they kill more people than they help when you're talking about cancer.
This is exactly why I made this post. Could not be further from the truth. Doctors devote themselves to science and helping people. Yes you're right, medicine is not always 100% effective especially in the case of cancer, but they manage to get it right the majority of the time and use the best tools at their disposal.
the truth is "medicine" is not always 100% effective because it is 100% nonsense. doctors are literally out there killing people and can't figure out why because they're brainwashed.
science seems to have become subjective, but ya your version seems to be super nonsense because i don't think a real scientific doctor would every do chemo on a person
Real scientific oncologists use chemo all the time. A lot of chemo targets cell replication machinery and prevents fast growing cells like cancer cells from growing anymore. I've seen it work in the lab and in humans. The side effect of targeting cell replication is you kill follicles for instance, but chemo usually gets cancer under control.
those are trained killer monkeys. chemo kills everything, you survive chemo, not the cancer which is going to come back anyway if you fall for such a stupid "treatment"
What people can't seem to realize is there won't ever be one cure for cancer because there's not just one cancer.
Also, anyone that claims a cure is doing it for profit. There's nothing wrong with that but anyone thinking "natural" cures aren't sold for profit is mistaken.
There's an antiscience bend to a lot of conspiracy theories that I don't understand, but I think it stems from a lack of understanding of the scientific/research process. Actual hard science research fits quite well into the conspiracy theory structure; it's a system that thrives on questioning established results and expanding human knowledge. Proving an established theory wrong, or incomplete, is the point.
No I completely agree that a lot of scientific research is politicized, and especially the conclusions drawn from it, this is a bigger issue in the softer sciences that don't rely on controlled experimentation like those based in objective 'hard' science. The profit side is a real issue as whats funded is usually what will be profitable, rather than things that exist just to further knowledge. CERN is a good example of something that's unlikely to pay dividends in the short term but has enormous benefits for expanding our understanding of the universe as we know it.
That was intentional, I've never understood the skepticism of CERN or the LHC. It's on the forefront of expanding understanding of the physical world on the quantum scale and on the universal scale, with very little to gain monetarily (at least short term). I mean it's fun to think that they'd accidentally make a black hole that'd destroy the planet/solar system but that's not something that would occur.
Ohhh, ok, I get it. I don't know anything about CERN so I'm not going to comment one way or the other.
Conspiracy forums are usually anything goes, but not everyone believes every theory. It's more of a psychological thing - like, when you find out you've been lied to about something, you start to wonder "what else have I been lied to about?" So you open your mind, and you respect people who are questioning things even if you don't question that particular thing yourself.
Yeah and I respect that world view, I consider myself a conspiracy theorist or I wouldn't post on this board. I guess my point was that science in general (the hard sciences at least) are researched with skepticism in mind. You test your hypothesis in an attempt to prove it wrong. I don't think people should accept everything they read, which is why scientific literacy is so important, so you have the intellectual tools to see through crap.
To tie that to a larger conspiracy, there is an intentional, orchestrated campaign to dumb down the masses, to limit critical thinking, so the population doesn't question anything.
I think what you're talking about is an ideal. In a perfect world, yes, science would question established results. But I don't think that's what happens in the real world.
From the outside, it seems like
1) there is a great deal of peer pressure to accept certain points of view
2) there is a great deal of financial pressure to accept certain points of view - you usually have to take on debt to get to the PhD level, and if you step outside the line, your career is over. If you have kids, even worse scenario.
3) there is corporate influence in the form of funding and god knows what else. In some cases there is evidence of corporations ghost-writing the science.
4) there is a problem with reproducibility.
5) there is a problem with fraud.
And the list goes on... Check out [Retraction Watch](retractionwatch.com). Every scientist should follow this site, it is excellent.
No you're right that's being idealistic. There's definitely money to be made by corporations who what results to go their way - tobacco industry, fossil fuel industry, medical industry, etc. That's why scientific literacy is vital for a society to function well, in my opinion, to be able to distinguish whats true and what's bullshit.
You say you doubt CBD oil is a cure for cancer, but considering it has been listed as a schedule 1 drug, limiting the ability for researchers to, you know, actually research it's effectiveness as a treatment, that listing is keeping science from doing what it does best - produce data. When good data isn't being produced scientifically, we're left with anecdotal evidence to draw any conclusions. It also adds to the confusion when biotech companies attempt to get FDA approval for their marijuana-based drugs. Tell me why it's still a schedule 1 substance, again?
A doctor's craft is keeping people alive; not healthy. You are trained to recognize and diagnose ailments from seeing symptoms. You are trained to know which pills to prescribe for which ailments. You know which drugs should never be mixed together.
But as a medical school student, tell me how many hours you've been taught about nutrition. I'll be shocked if you spent more than a day. You might be protesting, but Nutrition isn't my field of expertise; there are entire programs dedicated to learning about that. And that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. You have an unwavering faith in Western Medicine and your soon-to-be mastery of that craft (congratulations, it's not an easy path to take), but don't forget there are holes and gaps in what has been scientifically studied (and thereby proven).
You're definitely correct, from what I've read cannabis probably isn't a cure for cancer but regulation definitely has made study into it less than comprehensive. I also like what you said about doctors keeping people alive not healthy. I think that mindset is something that needs to change. I read something just the other day on how medical students get less nutrition training than I got in my college nutrition class. At the same time though people make these huge leaps from doctors need to deliver more patient centered care to, doctors are evil and hiding cures and making people sick. That's what I have a problem with and think has adverse consequences for peoples health.
You make it sound like people on this sub are targeting individual doctors for being somehow malicious. I think you'd do well to read the last paragraph of the reply you replied to.
It's all good that you are studying to be a medical doctor. But your positive sentiments about your career choice won't change the utterly rotten aspects of your future industry, and the framework within which it finds its place.
I have encountered the mindset that doctors are evil/malicious a time or two here, but it has been my experience that they don't receive much support in this sub.
You seem well-intentioned, and the scientific knowledge you're currently studying certainly has merit. I wish you all the best in your chosen field.
Now considering we're in the conspiracy sub, here's a link to an Illuminati:NWO card with some flavor text relevant for the next time you discount an experimental treatment for being unproven:
I think you're probably right that some of these natural cures are half-baked, but if you want to understand why people turn to them, look to your own profession. Medicine is horribly corrupt industry.
I know in your world being an "actual scientist" counts for a lot, but for those of us struggling through this nightmare of a health care system, well let's just say we don't see it that way.
You're absolutely on point. Much of the reason that people have begun to turn to natural remedies is that they are dissatisfied with how impersonal and sterile doctors tend to be and how expensive care is today. At the same time that doesn't necessarily undermine the whole profession of medicine and invalidate anything doctors have to say.
Yes, I do agree with that. I think it's cool that you came to r/conspiracy and respected everyone's intelligence instead of writing it off as a bunch of crazies.
I have to imagine that a lot of people working within medical science must be frustrated by the way the system works, as well.
Thank you. Codaclouds has some very unique views on health and medicine in general. He thinks eggs are poison abortions and that we can get all our protein from broccoli. There isn't much middle ground with him. I've learned to live with it.
Anyway, not many people around here that I've come across think Doctors are all evil. I think it is more a question of the training and the institution of modern medicine in general.
I love all the actual knowledge and information you presented.
There are also ELF generators that work on inoperable brain tumors by destroying the process of when the spindles pull apart the chromosomes in individual cell division of a tumor cell, there is a polarity during this event, when the daughter tries to use her spindles to pull the duplicated chromosomes from the parent cell and then split off, ELF generators fuck with the polarity during this process, causing the daughter cell to be unable to gather the chromosomes and form properly, leading into apoptosis, but also leading the parent cell unable to regenerate its chromosome leading to apoptosis, again.
"Everyone has an angle that they're trying to work, and in the case of the majority of legitimate medical doctors, that angle is your health and well being."
"About Medical and Cancer Conspiracy Theories: From an Actual Scientist"
OMG your so fucking dumb. Are you a doctor or a scientist? lol.
37 comments
1 ServantofSaturn 2017-09-17
I'm confused by your post. What's the main idea that you want us to take away from this? Are you a doctor or "an actual scientist"? You're giving us your personal sentiment on multiple issues from multiple perspectives without any research. Are we complaining about the people who hype cannabis cures or are we complaining about people who think the industry itself is hiding the cures to cancer? Or just anyone who is suspicious of the pharma industry in general?
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
Credentials wise, I have a BS in Biology and a Masters in Biochemistry and have done research in genetics and cancer biology. I'm going to medical school for an md/phd next year as well. I wrote this because I think people who believe that there is a conspiracy to hide cures and are hyped about cannabis are misguided and that their characterizations of doctors are often inaccurate.
1 ServantofSaturn 2017-09-17
Ok, fair enough. I don't think your credentials warranted a post like this with such confidence, but your opinion is just as welcome as anyone else's here.
1 codaclouds 2017-09-17
"That brings me to my main point, doctors devote their entire lives to becoming masters of their craft and protectors of their patients."
nope. they devote their lives to indoctrination (look closely into this word) into a system that has proven ineffective over many many years. "doctors" are criminals at worst, ignorant at best, and they kill more people than they help when you're talking about cancer.
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
This is exactly why I made this post. Could not be further from the truth. Doctors devote themselves to science and helping people. Yes you're right, medicine is not always 100% effective especially in the case of cancer, but they manage to get it right the majority of the time and use the best tools at their disposal.
1 codaclouds 2017-09-17
the truth is "medicine" is not always 100% effective because it is 100% nonsense. doctors are literally out there killing people and can't figure out why because they're brainwashed.
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
So you're saying science is nonsense?
1 codaclouds 2017-09-17
science seems to have become subjective, but ya your version seems to be super nonsense because i don't think a real scientific doctor would every do chemo on a person
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
Real scientific oncologists use chemo all the time. A lot of chemo targets cell replication machinery and prevents fast growing cells like cancer cells from growing anymore. I've seen it work in the lab and in humans. The side effect of targeting cell replication is you kill follicles for instance, but chemo usually gets cancer under control.
1 codaclouds 2017-09-17
those are trained killer monkeys. chemo kills everything, you survive chemo, not the cancer which is going to come back anyway if you fall for such a stupid "treatment"
1 naturalproducer 2017-09-17
Sounds like you need to learn about Rockefeller Medicine...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6J_7PvWoMw
1 likes-to-use-italics 2017-09-17
What people can't seem to realize is there won't ever be one cure for cancer because there's not just one cancer.
Also, anyone that claims a cure is doing it for profit. There's nothing wrong with that but anyone thinking "natural" cures aren't sold for profit is mistaken.
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
I agree with this 100%.
1 AspiringOligarch 2017-09-17
Speaking of cancer;
Q. What's the difference between a tumor and TMOR?
A. Tumors don't leave their host with the intent of infecting other bodies with malignant mischief.
1 trjb 2017-09-17
There's an antiscience bend to a lot of conspiracy theories that I don't understand, but I think it stems from a lack of understanding of the scientific/research process. Actual hard science research fits quite well into the conspiracy theory structure; it's a system that thrives on questioning established results and expanding human knowledge. Proving an established theory wrong, or incomplete, is the point.
Science is, or should be, apolitical.
1 your_color 2017-09-17
Should be, yes. But in actual fact science very rarely is apolitical.
It "should" also be a collective project to further human knowledge. But more often than not, the few use it to make money off the many.
A healthily skeptical person should therefore have a somewhat reserved view of the "science" in various fields.
1 trjb 2017-09-17
No I completely agree that a lot of scientific research is politicized, and especially the conclusions drawn from it, this is a bigger issue in the softer sciences that don't rely on controlled experimentation like those based in objective 'hard' science. The profit side is a real issue as whats funded is usually what will be profitable, rather than things that exist just to further knowledge. CERN is a good example of something that's unlikely to pay dividends in the short term but has enormous benefits for expanding our understanding of the universe as we know it.
1 Wild_man_mick_brown 2017-09-17
Eh... I think there are a bunch of conspiracy theories about CERN. Might not be the best example for r/conspiracy.
1 trjb 2017-09-17
That was intentional, I've never understood the skepticism of CERN or the LHC. It's on the forefront of expanding understanding of the physical world on the quantum scale and on the universal scale, with very little to gain monetarily (at least short term). I mean it's fun to think that they'd accidentally make a black hole that'd destroy the planet/solar system but that's not something that would occur.
1 Wild_man_mick_brown 2017-09-17
Ohhh, ok, I get it. I don't know anything about CERN so I'm not going to comment one way or the other.
Conspiracy forums are usually anything goes, but not everyone believes every theory. It's more of a psychological thing - like, when you find out you've been lied to about something, you start to wonder "what else have I been lied to about?" So you open your mind, and you respect people who are questioning things even if you don't question that particular thing yourself.
1 trjb 2017-09-17
Yeah and I respect that world view, I consider myself a conspiracy theorist or I wouldn't post on this board. I guess my point was that science in general (the hard sciences at least) are researched with skepticism in mind. You test your hypothesis in an attempt to prove it wrong. I don't think people should accept everything they read, which is why scientific literacy is so important, so you have the intellectual tools to see through crap.
To tie that to a larger conspiracy, there is an intentional, orchestrated campaign to dumb down the masses, to limit critical thinking, so the population doesn't question anything.
1 Wild_man_mick_brown 2017-09-17
I think what you're talking about is an ideal. In a perfect world, yes, science would question established results. But I don't think that's what happens in the real world.
From the outside, it seems like
1) there is a great deal of peer pressure to accept certain points of view
2) there is a great deal of financial pressure to accept certain points of view - you usually have to take on debt to get to the PhD level, and if you step outside the line, your career is over. If you have kids, even worse scenario.
3) there is corporate influence in the form of funding and god knows what else. In some cases there is evidence of corporations ghost-writing the science.
4) there is a problem with reproducibility.
5) there is a problem with fraud.
And the list goes on... Check out [Retraction Watch](retractionwatch.com). Every scientist should follow this site, it is excellent.
1 trjb 2017-09-17
No you're right that's being idealistic. There's definitely money to be made by corporations who what results to go their way - tobacco industry, fossil fuel industry, medical industry, etc. That's why scientific literacy is vital for a society to function well, in my opinion, to be able to distinguish whats true and what's bullshit.
1 remotehypnotist 2017-09-17
You say you doubt CBD oil is a cure for cancer, but considering it has been listed as a schedule 1 drug, limiting the ability for researchers to, you know, actually research it's effectiveness as a treatment, that listing is keeping science from doing what it does best - produce data. When good data isn't being produced scientifically, we're left with anecdotal evidence to draw any conclusions. It also adds to the confusion when biotech companies attempt to get FDA approval for their marijuana-based drugs. Tell me why it's still a schedule 1 substance, again?
A doctor's craft is keeping people alive; not healthy. You are trained to recognize and diagnose ailments from seeing symptoms. You are trained to know which pills to prescribe for which ailments. You know which drugs should never be mixed together.
But as a medical school student, tell me how many hours you've been taught about nutrition. I'll be shocked if you spent more than a day. You might be protesting, but Nutrition isn't my field of expertise; there are entire programs dedicated to learning about that. And that's exactly the point I'm trying to make. You have an unwavering faith in Western Medicine and your soon-to-be mastery of that craft (congratulations, it's not an easy path to take), but don't forget there are holes and gaps in what has been scientifically studied (and thereby proven).
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
You're definitely correct, from what I've read cannabis probably isn't a cure for cancer but regulation definitely has made study into it less than comprehensive. I also like what you said about doctors keeping people alive not healthy. I think that mindset is something that needs to change. I read something just the other day on how medical students get less nutrition training than I got in my college nutrition class. At the same time though people make these huge leaps from doctors need to deliver more patient centered care to, doctors are evil and hiding cures and making people sick. That's what I have a problem with and think has adverse consequences for peoples health.
1 your_color 2017-09-17
You make it sound like people on this sub are targeting individual doctors for being somehow malicious. I think you'd do well to read the last paragraph of the reply you replied to.
It's all good that you are studying to be a medical doctor. But your positive sentiments about your career choice won't change the utterly rotten aspects of your future industry, and the framework within which it finds its place.
1 remotehypnotist 2017-09-17
I have encountered the mindset that doctors are evil/malicious a time or two here, but it has been my experience that they don't receive much support in this sub.
You seem well-intentioned, and the scientific knowledge you're currently studying certainly has merit. I wish you all the best in your chosen field.
Now considering we're in the conspiracy sub, here's a link to an Illuminati:NWO card with some flavor text relevant for the next time you discount an experimental treatment for being unproven:
https://www.thedoggstar.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/blindedbyscience.png.jpg
1 Wild_man_mick_brown 2017-09-17
I think you're probably right that some of these natural cures are half-baked, but if you want to understand why people turn to them, look to your own profession. Medicine is horribly corrupt industry.
I know in your world being an "actual scientist" counts for a lot, but for those of us struggling through this nightmare of a health care system, well let's just say we don't see it that way.
Take a look at a recent post here.
This is the kind of stuff you're up against. Thanks for telling the conspiracy community to clean house, maybe your community should do the same.
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
You're absolutely on point. Much of the reason that people have begun to turn to natural remedies is that they are dissatisfied with how impersonal and sterile doctors tend to be and how expensive care is today. At the same time that doesn't necessarily undermine the whole profession of medicine and invalidate anything doctors have to say.
1 Wild_man_mick_brown 2017-09-17
Yes, I do agree with that. I think it's cool that you came to r/conspiracy and respected everyone's intelligence instead of writing it off as a bunch of crazies.
I have to imagine that a lot of people working within medical science must be frustrated by the way the system works, as well.
1 RecoveringGrace 2017-09-17
OP is a TMoR regular user and has also X-posted his own post to that sub.
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
Regular is an exaggeration, posted on there once. Doesn't change the truth of what I said.
1 Ninjakick666 2017-09-17
You should read rule 9 for this sub...
1 RecoveringGrace 2017-09-17
It changes the perception of what your intent is. Your X-post is awfully disrespectful of this community.
1 scintillatingnebula 2017-09-17
Fair enough, deleted. I was a little taken aback by some of the initial replies I got, but I've gotten some really thoughtful ones now. Apologies
1 RecoveringGrace 2017-09-17
Thank you. Codaclouds has some very unique views on health and medicine in general. He thinks eggs are poison abortions and that we can get all our protein from broccoli. There isn't much middle ground with him. I've learned to live with it.
Anyway, not many people around here that I've come across think Doctors are all evil. I think it is more a question of the training and the institution of modern medicine in general.
1 Catsarereptilians2 2017-09-17
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/70mcpc/cannabis_beats_incurable_brain_tumor_after_chemo/dn4i90f/
(In regards to marijuana).
In regards to cancer:
https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6uujlt/cancer_conspiracy/dlvi6z5/
I love all the actual knowledge and information you presented.
There are also ELF generators that work on inoperable brain tumors by destroying the process of when the spindles pull apart the chromosomes in individual cell division of a tumor cell, there is a polarity during this event, when the daughter tries to use her spindles to pull the duplicated chromosomes from the parent cell and then split off, ELF generators fuck with the polarity during this process, causing the daughter cell to be unable to gather the chromosomes and form properly, leading into apoptosis, but also leading the parent cell unable to regenerate its chromosome leading to apoptosis, again.
"Everyone has an angle that they're trying to work, and in the case of the majority of legitimate medical doctors, that angle is your health and well being."
"About Medical and Cancer Conspiracy Theories: From an Actual Scientist"
OMG your so fucking dumb. Are you a doctor or a scientist? lol.
1 Balthanos 2017-09-17
Removed. Rule 10.