The CIA/Freemasons/Mafia get paid for the drugs, Big Pharma get paid for the ever increasing Narcan injections, everyone's a winner!

Big money in that solution.

In just one year, the cost of naloxone jumped 312 percent in Pittsburgh. In 2015, Allegheny County paid just $10,000 for naloxone. A year later, the cost ballooned to $144,000.

That makes sense though. Before this became a "crisis" you would generally only find Narcan on the ambulance and the fire medics trucks. Now they are stocking police with them as well as increasing available stock to EMS and Fire.

Typical cost of one to two dose in a standard vial is around $20. That's not too bad. It's the autoinjectors that went up like crazy. They're convenient but not necessary for medical responders.

I live in DC, They give Narcan away here in the city. Its part of the harm reduction strategy and It works. there is a bus that parks in different spots around the city every day, - it has a route so people that use know where to go. THe give needles and Narcan nasel spray away for free. I think its a great idea. so Out of the first 1000 doses it gave away, over 200 of them were used to stop overdoses. Now that does not mean 200 people would have died without it , but they were high enough that they could not walk, or respond and someone used the Narcan Nasel spray on them. That's 1 out of 5, Pretty good odds. I stopped by the bus a couple weeks ago and Got one for my first aid kit. Never know when I would be glad I have it.

That makes sense though.

If you work for Big Pharma sure.

Unlike nearly every other developed nation, the U.S. allows drug manufacturers to set their own prices, a policy that has resulted in overall medicine costs being far higher than elsewhere. Increasingly, insurers are passing the cost along to patients through higher deductibles.

No, it makes sense to anyone who cares to stop and think about it for a second.

The county increased their supply and availability by a large margin, so it makes sense that they would spend significantly more than in previous years.

I agree that the autoinjector price hike is outrageous. But there's no reason to buy the injectors for trained responders and Naloxone in a vial is still affordable. A vial is around $20 while an injector can cost thousands. Even before the hike an injector cost over $600 so it's never really been feasible.

The county increased their supply and availability by a large margin, so it makes sense that they would spend significantly more than in previous years.

We are talking about the drug price percentage increase, not the total cost spent from one year to the next for one county:

In 2014, it got FDA approval and hit the market for a list price of $575, an exciting new tool to battle the country's overwhelming opioid epidemic. But three years after Evzio came out, its cost has exploded to $4,500 per prescription. Like the pharma company Mylan did with Epi-Pen—another simple, life-saving drug—Evzio's maker has raised its price as high as the market will bear.

But there's no reason to buy the injectors for trained responders and Naloxone in a vial is still affordable.

Except certain states mandated it.

But lawmakers want families and first responders to have the easiest-to-use version of naloxone—and when states started passing laws to increase access to naloxone, Kaleo benefited. Florida, Ohio, and Louisiana passed laws in the last three years that required first responders to carry FDA-approved versions of naloxone—which, until last year, only included Evzio. Beletsky says Kaleo actively lobbied to have the laws written that way. (Kaleo did not comment.) Legislators in Florida and Ohio later rewrote the laws so cheaper options are allowed. But other states continue to push for brand names. State Senator Royce West introduced a bill in Texas last year which would limit naloxone options to Evzio and Narcan.

Everybody wants a slice of that pie. It's a giant organized crime racket.

Drugs are organized at the highest levels of the Deep state- CIA, DEA, NSA, all have programs to help create cash to fight illegal wars, overthrow Failed states, etc. Remember " It's ALL A RICH MANS TRICK" period! Don't forget it.

It's the same way the medical industry works. Treat the symptom not the cause.

Repeat business

Treat the symptom not the cause.

That's literally what you have to do when dealing with an OD. Naloxone exists to bind the receptors to intervene in respiratory and cardiac depression so that person can stay alive long enough to attempt a treatment of the cause.

The reality is that when it comes to addiction you can't really force people to get better. You can provide them with all the tools and support but they have to make that choice for themselves. Naloxone does not treat the fact that somebody got touched when they were 4 years old and their mom never hugged them enough and now they're shooting dope into their foot. Naloxone treats opiate overdose. That's literally all it does.

You see this a lot with food addiction as well. Sure you can give people Lipitor and all that shit but at the end of the day the onus is on the person to better themselves. And these are things that are very hard to break.

Do you think that people go into jail addicted and come out clean and never want to do drugs again? SO many of them just go right back to drugs after getting out because they don't have the will to stay clean. They "got" clean in jail but their mind is still not "clean."

We can step away from all of this drug shit and look at another example: gambling addiction. Are there even drugs for that? What do you give a patient to treat the symptoms of losing $10,000 they borrowed from family? It's mental, literally. You can get over withdrawals from drugs and still go right back to it.

Yep, "treat" addiction to the "bad street drugs" with medical grade clean drugs. Yet addicts stay addicts and drug companies make more money with addicts getting their government sanctioned fix.

with addicts getting their government sanctioned fix.

That's isn't remotely what OP is talking about here.

Naloxone isn't a "fix", it's one of the worst experiences you could ask for. When injected it very basically kicks opiates off receptors and replaces them, locking the opiates out during the life of the Naloxone.

This results in severe, near immediate withdrawal. And you can't get rid of the WD symptoms because your receptors are locked. It's hell.

This is a common cause of the secondary ODs in a day that we hear about. People are given Naloxone then they AMA and immediately go looking for a fix due to the severe WD they're in. The half life of Naloxone is significantly shorter than that of heroin and other opiates, which leads to a stacked effect when the Narcan wears off.

That's why it's so important if possible to put a hold on ODs, and why so many are treated as "suicide attempts" even though they were accidental. In doing this the hospital can help prevent that second OD.

I think you misunderstood what the word "fix" means in this context.

When I said government sanctioned "fix" - I meant the methadone and fentanyl drugs they are given to keep them from getting their drugs (their fix) on the the street. I was not speaking about the OD drugs as a fix, which many users have started to carry on their own.

This pretty well demonstrates what I was talking about. https://youtu.be/F1ojeXgyAu0

No, I know what you meant. That's not what the post is talking about though. OP seems to think Naloxone is some kind of conspiracy when in reality it's a standard emergency treatment that's been around for decades.

The reason they don't hear about overdosing as often is explained in the video.

They set up tent triage and treatment areas for ODs

They set up safe houses for people to do drugs with oversight in case someone starts to OD

But most importantly, they have clinics people can legally get a "prescribed" dose so they won't OD on the street.

OP is apparently unaware of all the ways the government and Big Pharma have colluded to keeps addicts alive, well, and addicted.

It's called harm reduction. I know what you're talking about, Insight, where there are nurses there to make sure you don't die.

Look, let's step away from the possible conspiracy bullshit that may or may not plague this whole drug issue.

Addiction is a societal problem. Not just opiates, but stimulants and alcohol/tobacco. When people overdose they're gonna call 911, and they're gonna go to the hospital. They likely don't have the money to pay the bills, so that's a loss for the hospital. Now multiply this by idk 40? 40 people overdosing would cost the hospital a lot of money. The hospital will have to write that off. That's gonna cost everyone else a lot of money too, either directly or indirectly. The government is in a position where either they don't do anything and everyone dies, or they try to mitigate the issues they can. We don't give junkies free/cheap needles because we want them to be alive and addicted, we're doing that so they don't spread Hepatitis of all sorts, HIV/AIDS, etc. Some of these junkies are people you wouldn't expect. Imagine if you had a sister who married a guy who ended up shooting drugs and he used a dirty needle and got HIV. Your sister doesn't do drugs at all. They have sex, and now she has HIV at no fault of her own. Maybe if he had access to fresh sharps he wouldn't have used a dirty needle that spread bloodborne illnesses.

They're gonna be addicts anyways. You could lock them up in prison until they're over withdrawals and months clean and they'll still be going back to it when they get out. Their addictions cause all sorts of problems, and a lot of addicts don't want to go back to "sober normal life" so they're gonna be addicts regardless. Insight and needle exchanges is for the better of both the users and non-users. They'll give you a fresh bag of needles if you bring all your used ones back to dispose in the appropriate biohazard boxes. So now you, the non-drug user, can walk with your kid to the ice cream store without seeing used needles everywhere.

Don't get me wrong big ol pharma has a hand in this but to call harm reduction "just the government keeping their pockets lined" is more than a little short-sighted and just bad all around.

At what point is enough, enough? When do you stop trying to save an OD? If they are just going to go back to being an addict as you said, doesn't that mean they will never be a productive member of society; thus no more resources should be expended to prolong their existence?

I may be an asshole for this view, but an ambulance being called to an OD is one less for a legitimate need elsewhere. Setting up triage tents is still on the taxpayer dime and costs money. Safe houses to do drugs only reduces the likelihood they die from OD because someone is there to call it in faster.

My biggest problem though is the government sanctioned drugs they and out to addicts to keep them off the street drugs. They aren't fixing the problem either. It becomes a government funded fix.

I mean the term "functional addict" is a thing for a reason. At what point do you stop? I don't know. I'd say never. I feel a little uncomfortable playing god like that. When do we stop telling alcoholics to get help or give up on them? When we think they're worthless or whatever, their family knows who they are, the happiness they brought them, memories, etc. at what point do we stop helping depressed people who become a drain on society when they retreat from it and live off welfare or whatever? There are no easy solutions and like I said you gotta really want it to quit and have a chance. They're gonna be druggies anyways. At what point do we stop sending for help for people who keep crashing their cars because they like diving too fast?

I think the want to alter our conscious is innate. We're not the only species that does it, and even lots of primates enjoy intoxication. It just isn't "bad" for them because their society is so much simpler etc. I think because of this "natural" urge we shouldn't ever stop helping people. One facet of this is by helping offset spread of diseases, unsafe shooting practices, etc. give them free sharps and steri cups, it costs a couple bucks and you can possibly avoid having them show up at the hospital needing a huge abscess drained and taking up room and doctors and nurses.

It has to be a government funded fix because the whole pharmaceutical thing is a government controlled program. The drug companies can't just sell it, you have to go through the doctor (government licensed) then the pharmacy (heavily watched by the government). I'd love to see laws pass for drug companies to have to put up a percentage of their profits into a fund to help treat the addicts they create, whether they did it intentionally or not.

But there is no easy fix sadly. Yes, they're addicts. But they're still people.

So it's up to the government to fix what they have created?

Who sanctions the pharmaceutical production and use of these addictive ass drugs? Uh, the government

How do these addictive ass drugs end up hitting the streets? Uh, the government.

Who is responsible for now taking care of the addicts? Uh, the government.

This is how they convince us that we "need" them. How they convince us that they have every right to take from us to provide for others. Last I checked, people are charitable in spite of the government taking from them. So how did we come to believe the government can take better care of those who refuse to care for themselves?

Addicts are fucking selfish pieces of human filth that put themselves before anyone or anything else. If you've never seen a baby born addicted to crack or a child whose toes were eaten off by a ferret because the parents were too fucking high to care about the child screaming then maybe you'd understand.

So you advocate the government taking care of people because allowing them to suffer the consequences of their decisions is not nice.

Guess what happens to animals in the wild that don't know when to stop...

So it's up to the government to fix what they have created?

I'd sooner blame pharmaceutical companies than the government. It wasn't the government that paid for doctors' vacations for prescribing their OxyContin, it was Purdue Pharmaceuticals. They did all that within the confines of the laws they have to follow.

Who sanctions the pharmaceutical production and use of these addictive ass drugs? Uh, the government

What's the government supposed to do, tell pharmaceutical companies not to make drugs that people need? Is it the government's fault that there are drugs for being obese that keep you alive?

How do these addictive ass drugs end up hitting the streets? Uh, the government.

Crooked doctors that write prescriptions. Hell, they don't even have to be crooked. Old people get prescribed painkillers for legitimate issues, but then they find out that their Social Security checks or their pension isn't quite cutting it, and they can sling a third of their prescription for $-550 a pill. Heroin and the fentanyl and carfentanyl that exists on the streets isn't even government regulated (going back to the actual original point of the post) so they're not the ones """supplying""" it.

Who is responsible for now taking care of the addicts? Uh, the government.

Well duh, they're citizens of the nation.

This is how they convince us that we "need" them. How they convince us that they have every right to take from us to provide for others. Last I checked, people are charitable in spite of the government taking from them. So how did we come to believe the government can take better care of those who refuse to care for themselves?

The government doesn't convince people that they should be addicted to drugs. Opiates have this side effect of being insanely euphoric. It's more a fault of the drug class due to how it works in the brain. That's enough to convince most. You've never talked to somebody that got out the hospital saying something like "wow they gave me morphine/dilaudid in the hospital and i totally see why people are addicts now" ? That's not the government's fault. It's also not the government's fault nor is it some conspiracy when you break a bone and get a taste of opiates.

Addicts are fucking selfish pieces of human filth that put themselves before anyone or anything else.

Oh, you're one of those.

If you've never seen a baby born addicted to crack or a child whose toes were eaten off by a ferret because the parents were too fucking high to care about the child screaming then maybe you'd understand.

I understand this pretty fuckin' well having seen it way too much in person. Maybe you shouldn't make assumptions about my experiences :^)

So they're selfish pieces of shit for fucking up the lives of their kids, should we not help the kids who had no say in the matter because of what their parents did? You'd rather somebody that didn't know they were pregnant get fucked looking for help?

So you advocate the government taking care of people because allowing them to suffer the consequences of their decisions is not nice.

I advocate for government programs that help people get off the streets and off drugs because they're more functional that way. Junkies or not they affect society. One is just more positive than the other.

Guess what happens to animals in the wild that don't know when to stop...

They usually get too fucked up to kill themselves. Otherwise in Australia there wouldn't be a problem with koalas eating pods and then walking in circles before nodding out, waking up, and doing it all over again. In any case, their society is totally different and to compare it that way is kind of weird. The reason I brought it up was to make a point of it being something that also happens in nature and something that is not "unnatural" to our species. Lots of species do drugs. None of them have societies as complex as ours.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. You're set in stone one way, and I'm set in stone another way. We probably won't find a middle ground that improves society if you think the government shouldn't use its powers and funding and shit to try and help people with issues get better so they can return to being more functional members of society.

Yeah, I'm one of those... whatever the hell that means.

Drug companies can't release drugs to the market for doctors to prescribe without government approval. I don't know how you think that these drugs aren't government sanctioned.

Governments prohibit alternatives like marijuana in favor of more addictive opiates, why do you suppose that is?

Drug companies can't release drugs to the market for doctors to prescribe without government approval. I don't know how you think that these drugs aren't government sanctioned.

That doesn't mean it's directly the government's fault people like the side effect of it. It's a restricted and controlled drug. The government makes sure it actually helps and has some degree of safety. There are tons of drugs that are approved that have side effects that include death and they still approve them because they actually help with things.

Governments prohibit alternatives like marijuana in favor of more addictive opiates, why do you suppose that is?

You're asking somebody who's username is literally weed-related. Opiates affect pain on a fundamentally different level than cannabinoids. Cannabinoids do not bind to opiate receptors. Don't worry, they're currently testing a CBD-based medication that's looking like it will be approved soon.

TBH, I didn't even look at your username.

Do you see the number of lawsuits that pop up because of how corrupt the government has become in approving shit?

Do you know where other addictive drugs that hit the streets came from? Cocaine was a wonder drug Crack developed to boost sales of coke LSD Crystal meth MDMA

Idk, I just think that the government is more to blame than the answer to the problem.

Do you see the number of lawsuits that pop up because of how corrupt the government has become in approving shit?

Not really. At least not any that specifically implicate the government. Could you hit me with a few? All I ever see is people suing the actual pharmaceutical company. And I don't think I've ever seen a lawsuit for "you should never have approved this but you took money for it" more along the lines of "this ruined my life in some way and it's the drug makers' fault". Does that make sense?

Do you know where other addictive drugs that hit the streets came from? Cocaine was a wonder drug Crack developed to boost sales of coke LSD Crystal meth MDMA

Which perspective are you asking this from? Historically or currently?

At least in the US, cocaine comes from the cartels importing it, nothing to do with pharmaceutical companies. They either grow it or get it from other cartels further south. Crack is what you get when you whip it with some soda. Yes, I know the CIA is implicated in bringing it in decades ago, but unless you have proof that they're still doing it now, we can blame cartels for the current cocaine imports. I don't know if the government doesn't care if it gets through the borders. I do know cartels are very good at bribing or threatening border patrol agents. Cocaine is also a schedule 2 drug, meaning it has recognized medical use. That medical use is in the form of a very diluted solution used for anesthesia in eye surgeries or other operations for people that are allergic to lidocaine. It has a bonus effect of constricting blood vessels so there is less bleeding during the procedure. They don't make enough of it and nowhere near strong enough for it to be any sort of viable street drug.

LSD was being made by a few chemists in the US. In fact, when the most recent one got busted, there was a big dry spell in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Leonard_Pickard

LSD is incredibly hard to synthesize and requires a massive amount of knowledge, lab glass, and precursors and chemicals which are watched (both some of the specific lab glass pieces and the chemicals needed). As far as I know the cartels don't bother synthesizing LSD in their drug labs (but they do make fentanyl as well).

Meth also primarily comes from the cartels. Lots and lots of meth labs around Mexico. There's also a lot of meth labs in the US, both bigger operations and smaller "home cook" types. It's also a schedule 2 drug, being available with a prescription under the brand name Desoxyn. But you've never seen it before, and neither have I. It has VERY few uses and a lot of other drugs are ahead of it for the conditions it can be used for. Desoxyn is negligible in the scope of meth on the black market.

MDMA from what I know (I haven't researched this recently) is schedule 1 so it's not being diverted from any sort of prescription. It is being produced by somebody pharmaceutically though because it's being researched in clinical trials for use in therapy. Most of that will come from home chemists as well. As for who's behind it, I'm not sure. Doubt cartels care much for it when it's a stimulant. Why make MDMA when meth sells itself waaay better?

Idk, I just think that the government is more to blame than the answer to the problem.

The government is to blame for some of it, but not all of what I think you want to assign to it. Don't get it twisted and think I'm trying to get you to forgive them, they've obviously been implicated in it before but I think not all of it is specifically their fault. They still have a responsibility to its citizens to try and help and better society. Whether they actually do anything about it is something else.

Something you need to take into account when talking about prescription opiates is that it wasn't the government that mandated they prescribe more. In the 90s, people were upset that pain patients weren't being taken seriously and taken care of. So doctors started prescribing more medication, and it kind of did help. Somewhere along the line, healthcare in general shifted towards a system where "patient satisfaction" mattered a whole lot more than it used to. So now it's hospitals and doctors depended on good reviews, and they got good reviews by giving the patients what they wanted within reason. None of that is specifically against any sort of law. A whole lot of doctors were personally complicit with dispensing obscene amounts of drugs. The thing about most of those pill mills though was that they had enough "proof" to pass the smell test. It becomes a question of who should be deciding what your MRI's and xrays say, the government or your doctor? A lot of them are people with obvious problems, but a lot of them are pretty iffy and it's not like we have an objective way to grade everyone's pain and call bullshit on what they perceive (real or imagined). If the only people allowed to diagnose you are the government, that would be a massive problem. They can decide you're making it all up if they know you spoke negatively about them, or if you're not part of the current ruling party, or any other way government officials can get bribed or worked. If they can diagnose you, why wouldn't they deny political dissidents life-saving medication? With that kind of power they wouldn't give a shit if people got mad.

I don't think the responsibility to better society lies with the government. The responsibility lies with the fucking people. Just seems like no one wants to actually do it, so they say it's the government's job. Yet the government doesn't do anything really well, and the waste and bureaucracy involved is mind blowing.

Narcotics Anonymous works and take zero dollars from the government.

At what point is enough, enough? When do you stop trying to save an OD?

That point doesn't exist. So long as we can provide help we should. That's the obligation of good people.

If they are just going to go back to being an addict as you said, doesn't that mean they will never be a productive member of society; thus no more resources should be expended to prolong their existence?

No, it doesn't.

I overdosed multiple times when I was using. I went through detox and rehab four times only to relapse quickly and even worse. I attended NA meetings to no avail.

By your standard I was a lost cause. And yet I'm going on six years clean now with a good life, great relationship, an education and a good job. In short, I'm a "productive" member of society.

I wouldn't be had any one of the people who helped me against all odds decided "You know what? He's not worth it".

I may be an asshole for this view, but an ambulance being called to an OD is one less for a legitimate need elsewhere.

You can say that about anything. That car accident? Shouldn't have been speeding, oh well. That heart attack? Should have put down the burgers, fatty. No help for you. That nursing home patient who fell? Oh they had a good 90 year run, better save the resources.

Every emergency where someone needs help is legitimate. We don't pick and choose, and you don't want a world where that's done unless you happen to be very wealthy.

My biggest problem though is the government sanctioned drugs they and out to addicts to keep them off the street drugs. They aren't fixing the problem either. It becomes a government funded fix.

No, it doesn't. Methadone clinics and the like are paid for by the patient and very rarely covered by insurance. Most methadone clinics cost a couple hundred to be referred then between $10-20 a day in cash up front.

Suboxone requires a specific addiction specialist that in my experience costs around $200/visit plus another $300+ for your script.

Wait, are we still in r/conspiracy? Is a functional member of society only a person in the workforce? Are people doing heroin in the first place because even when fully employed, educated or part of a family and interpersonal relationships, people feel such a void, that they seek recreational drugs?

Nope, functional member of society does not mean workforce, but junkies are pure burden, sorry.

Recreational drug? Really fentanyl is now just a recreational drug? Sorry, recreational means something different to me, I guess.

KNope, functional member of society does not mean workforce, but juk are pure burden, sorr Hwuulre addicts who are functional and working any different l ysimpy because they use a substance? Th I'ummkiof addicts lead pretty normal lives. They go to school and they, work. It's up Lszm Ioiooojll Lv qq>Nope, functional member of society does not mean workforce, but jukies are pure burden, sorry.

Roreatillnal drug? Really fentanyl is now just a recreational dSory, recreational means something different to me, I guess.

Recreational drug? Really fentanyl is now just a recreational drug? Sorry, recreational means something different to me, I guess.

Oops, pocket replied initially, if you see a garbled mess before the delete goes through, that's why.

Nope, functional member of society does not mean workforce, but junkies are pure burden, sorry.

Most addicts are indistinguishable from the average member of "society", so this is clearly your opinion based on stereotype.

They go to school, they work, they live pretty normal lives. Where that usually changes is in their first arrest and conviction under possession laws, after which they face the bullshit we call "justice" of being unable to find a job or housing of any quality.

You keep talking about what a burden addicts are but you really haven't said how they are this burden.

Recreational drug? Really fentanyl is now just a recreational drug? Sorry, recreational means something different to me, I guess.

Well words have definitions for a reason, so what it means to you doesn't really matter. What it means in reality is any drug that is not used for a recognized medical benefit, usually for psychoactive effects.

Most addicts are indistinguishable from the average member of "society", so this is clearly your opinion based on stereotype and little more.

Not exactly opinion, rather my experience. If you are extending this to people on pills, alcohol or even food then you are really broadening the scope as this was about fentanyl junkies.

TBH, addicts usually think they are a lot more slick than they really are. Most people notice, but few people are willing to confront the issue so they ignore it. They hope the person will get help or get over it on their own. Its sad really, because there are so many people that could have been helped if their supposed friends and loved ones had been willing to take up the fight.

Don't think possession laws are just? How about people just stop doing illegal shit? Don't think it should be illegal? Take it up with your friendly representatives. Society has rules, sucks sometimes, but most of them are in reaction to people not being able to control themselves.

I have discussed ways in which junkies are burdens in my previous comments. Go back and read them. People here think that the government taking care of these junkies is a good thing. I maintain the government caused the problem to begin with, and they are not good at fixing anything. The government does not treat the problem - they are more likely to treat symptoms which makes a lifelong addict with a government provided fix.

Most important comment in this thread.

All news is manufactured. What you see is barely the tip of the iceberg.

Lost someone to a herion OD that almost certainly was cut with fentanyl. Yeah the media doesn't talk about it and locking users in cages doesn't help.

They can't come out and say "we want poppies and natural gas" their story is "a former CIA asset / tinpot turned on us."

Sorry for your loss.

Canadian heroin comes from golden triangle (Laos, Burma, Thailand.) Afghan heroin feeds Europe.

The problem isn't heroin, in fact heroin is a viable solution to the problem. William S Burroughs shot Diladud until he was 90. The reason street opiates are dangerous is unknown potency. All addicts should be put on prescription opiates. If you aren't a moron and recognize tolerance you won't OD on a regulated dosage opiods. This fent problem is a result of the war on drugs, instead of a trailer full of heroin you can smuggle 10 thousand doses in a small envelope. It will not stop from enforcement as Canada gets 10 thousand or more packages from China every day, you can't open all those.

All addicts should be put on prescription opiates. If you aren't a moron and recognize tolerance you won't OD on a regulated dosage opiods.

While I agree the only real problem I see here is junkies gonna junk, you and I both know if we gave 'em a script for oxy they'd run through it so quick it's not even funny and then they'd just cop dope instead. There have been pilot programs in the Netherlands I believe (or close to there) where they gave addicts pharm-grade heroin amps as a literal last ditch attempt where everything else failed and it worked for them, but that's a very small sample. And I think they have to go to a pharmacy or location for every single dose so that inconvenience will probably fuck with a lot of people.

you and I both know if we gave 'em a script for oxy they'd run through it so quick it's not even funny and then they'd just cop dope instead.

They're talking about methadone and Suboxone, things like that.

Maintenance programs do work, though of course not for everyone because there is no silver bullet for addiction.

But if a person who wants to get clean but struggles with WD sand cravings can get something to ease both, they stand a much better chance. That's why Kratom is so successful, it fills that need.

in my case, cravings have returned after kratom use. in the end its something you really have to try and live with.

but kratom can help, it gets you away from all possible needle drugs if you actually only use it, and helps give you time away without the severity of withdrawals from subs/methadone.

its still pretty decently bad withdrawal, but much easier than heroin, suboxone, or methadone in my personal experience.

Methadone you can still shoot dope on (I know a few people IRL that do it), Suboxone is harder but you can just take more of it. Buprenorphine (Sub) is weird because of the massively high binding affinity so what I've seen happen personally is they either trade it for other drugs, use it while they can't cop dope, or take a lot of it/shoot it. Contrary to what people may think, shooting Suboxone actually totally works due to how strong the binding affinity of bupe is. The naloxone doesn't do dick to it, it's a marketing ploy/"we have a new patent we've formulated" cash grab. I've seen people booting up both Suboxone (bupe/naloxone) and Subutex (just bupe). Bupe overdoses are kinda notorious for how much naloxone you need to hit them with to start getting them out of it. Saving grace of bupe weirdly enough is that it has a ceiling effect for respiratory depression so past a certain point you can't really depress it anymore. Unfortunately lots of opiate addicts supplement bupe/methadone with benzos so you get the amplified CNS depression. There is an antidote for benzo overdose but it's really rough on the body and it's preferable to treat the opiate overdose over the benzo overdose because of how safe benzos are by themselves and because of how fast it works.

Agreed on your last bit. It's a pain having to go everyday to get your daily methadone/Suboxone and you usually won't get take-homes for a while when starting on the program. Too many people don't have the access to therapists/doctors/programs that help get people clean. It's a multi-faceted problem where you probably need the replacement therapy AND emotional/mental support from professionals, but for many reasons people can only get one or the other. That's not even to touch on the whole point of Suboxone being a short-term taper drug, you're not supposed to be on that shit for years. But sometimes, that's the best situation you can put somebody in. Kratom can help in a lot of cases but there is also something to be said about the rituals of drug consumption, packing the bowl the right way and filling it up with water and some ice, rolling up a cigarette in the morning with a cup of coffee and feeling the cold air outside biting your lungs before you take that first drag, using a hose clamp to bust that Suboxone down into a fine powder to snort with your favorite straw or whatever. Creatures of habit and all that. Knew a couple people with such bad needle fever they'd spike clean water just to get that endorphin rush of stabbing themselves because they managed to Pavlov themselves from all the shooting drugs.

It's a real complicated problem and I hate how a lot of people talk all that shit about "they use drugs? fuck em, they're worthless, let em die" in between sips of their third glass of whisky and then beg the hospital to save their fucked livers. There's something to be said about personal responsibility, but there's also the need to help society better itself. Sometimes it's as easy as raising the age on something, other times you gotta get your hands a little dirty and go to the actual hood and hand out drug paraphernalia. I wish people would at least see it from a health standpoint, yes they're druggies call them whatever, but goddamnit just give them the fuckin' needles so they don't go around infecting people with all sorts of STD's and blood borne pathogens that had nothing to do with drugs. And that's not even purely an opiate thing, just imagine somebody with HIV/AIDS/hepatitis fucked off some PCP running around the streets naked all cut up, and in trying to get them to the hospital, the EMT's or police get cut and exposed to his blood. Dude unknowingly got it from their significant other who got it from sharing sharps/old blood transfusion/prostitutes/etc, now the people treating them have it and they did everything right in life.

The government owes it to society to try and minimize all risks for everybody involved.

I'm real sorry it's so long, I'm kinda passionate about this when it comes to drug use in the US and the world at large. I don't really get to talk to many people outside of reddit about it at length (barring people in the healthcare field or users/ex-users).

Under rated comment of the thread.

I hear about overdoses every day. Ohio seems to be one of the worst in the USA, where they run out of places to put all the dead bodies.

Other than trying to get people not to do heroin in the first place, I don't know what the solution is. They could burn all the poppy fields, and that doesn't matter because China can make fent cheaper.

There is no easy solution. Things like easy access to Naloxone and affordable access to maintenance drugs are a major help in preventing OD and drug related crime, but they're just a bandaid without mental health resources.

The biggest common denominator I've noticed among addicts is a feeling of having no purpose in life, which leads to these destructive behaviors. Addiction forces you into purpose, maintaining a habit requires constant focus.

I think that's the reason drug addicts tend to be people who are more intelligent than average: they don't find the usual distractions fulfilling and dig for something more and more until they find themselves trapped in a hole.

Every successful story of getting clean that I've heard involves finding some type of purpose in life. And that's getting harder and harder for anyone to find these days.

Not really sure what you're going for here OP, but no one is pushing Naloxone as a solution to addiction.

It's a life saving intervention that's easy to administer even with minimal medical training and experience. It's a bandaid to buy time to get actual help to an addict who will otherwise surely die.

The ODs still occur, they just result in death less often when this drug is available.

Naloxone does nothing for the treatment of addiction itself, nor is it presented as such. It can be used in combination with certain maintenance drugs to deter injection, but that's it. Its real value is in emergency intervention.

Surely you don't think making this more widely available is a bad thing?

But I'll dumb it down for you CTR-types.

Really? You're going with the whole "anyone who doesn't nod enthusiastically in agreement is a shill" argument?

Ok then, whatever floats your boat I guess.

See, it's in between 3 and 4 where there seems to be the disconnect I'm asking about.

3) naloxone appears everywhere at a higher price

4) drugs still cheap and plentiful on the streets, people still dying at alarming rates

The two aren't related. If you thought Naloxone was some type of treatment for addiction then you were simply incorrect.

5) No more news reports about addictions and ods

This isn't true. Local news is filled with reports of ODs when they happen. But the shine has worn off, as most stories about chronic issues do, and it's not really newsworthy on a national level anymore. There's nothing new to add.

Pharma profits. Politicians and media pats themselves and each other on the back. Job well done.

Pharma will always profit, it's what they do. But the part about politicians and media, what is that based on? What are they supposedly congratulating themselves about?

Except that we keep getting more and more drug addicts and we keep dying at the same rates as before.

No, less people are dying thanks to the push to make Narcan available more widely.

And again, it was never presented as a treatment for addiction.

So I ask again, what exactly is the Conspiracy angle you're going for here? That a drug never marketed for addiction treatment hasn't solved the addiction crisis within a few months of being more widely available?

I would have given you the doubt that you are either confused or misinformed, but then you have to go and call people shills for trying to correct your mistake.

Maybe you get all your news from reddit, idk, but I hear about local overdoses literally every day. I also hear a lot about people saved by Narcan.

You're talking about fentanyl and carfentanyl overdoses and the response being naloxone...

1. The fentanyl and carfentanyl are sourced from Chinese labs and shipped overseas. They're sorta kinda hard to make at home. It's literally exponentially easier to take morphine pills and make heroin out of it. Fent and carfent are "lab equipment and gas chromatography machines" level synths.

2. You're implying that pharmacies shouldn't profit from naloxone, so are you implying that people should just die instead?

Naloxone is already available to first responders, EMT's, hospitals.

Drugs are cheap and plentiful on the streets because it's a black market. It's not regulated. Fentanyl and carfentanyl are regulated but nobody is putting fentanyl patches into dope, they're smoking the fentanyl patches themselves, which ironically is actually safer because they have a known dose and are easier to measure unlike the """""heroin""""" which isn't even heroin and possibly cut all fucked up.

Pharmaceutical companies profit because of everything. Naloxone is not some big money maker like OxyContin and Adderall are. You're trying to tie societal problems into companies that provide both the fuel and the water. What are you suggesting, that people die because they don't deserve to live because of their choice to do drugs? Should we punish fat people by withholding medications that would save them because it's their fault they're fat?

Also

5) No more news reports about addictions and ods

LOL

But I'll dumb it down for you CTR-types.

lmfao way to go you showed em tyke

Good luck shutting down the CIA. It's been tried, just ask JFK.

I think OP is confusing Naloxone with Buprenorphine (suboxone).

Maybe. That would make more sense than ranting about Narcan since the stuff is highly restricted and very expensive while being a good option for many addicts.

If that is the case then OP needs to get his shit together before posting and calling people "CTR" when they all that he's talking about.

Yes tptb want to keep junkies alive so they keep buying the fentanyl /s

Most former opiate addicts who are now "clean" are just addicted to suboxone.

suboxone as well.

What if I told you the media and big pharma are controlled by the same interests.

I'm very aware of the high number of fentanyl deaths here in the US and am wondering what's or who's behind it as well. What is the point, other than killing off addicts.

That's my tinfoil hat conspiracy right there: someone is killing addicts intentionally and sparking another hysteria to replace marijuana.

Im in vancouver. Heres my major tin foil hat thought. The canadian and us governments are bringing fentanyl in to wipe out areas where junkies reside. Like the downtown east side to re develop the areas and let the chinese aquire the homes and condos. I mean there cant be more than 10 000 addicts down there. Kill 1200 or so a year and in a decade massive development projects shoot up.

No one is asking the real question. What's so wrong with this world we live that everyone feels the need to escape it.

Canada hmmm. Along with tons of fake degrees. This looks pretty bad

This post is not about people who became addicts as a result of medical conditions and legitimate prescriptions run amok, so keep that in mind as you read.

I never met a junkie who became one because of a medical issue that caused them to need painkillers for a long time and they eventually graduated to street heroin.

All the junkies I ever met started out crushing up and sniffing prescription pills during a night of partying and eventually they tried snorting H because of either their dealer, or they were just looking for a buzz. We shouldn't coddle people who get involed with the party lifestyle.

There should be rehabilitation programs for anyone who wants it, but this "epidemic" of drug use is the fault of the people who pop pills and put powder up their nose because they want to be in the cool party scene. If the individual didn't choose to get involved with these drugs, then there would be no demand for suppliers to make them.

By the way, you can try heroin once and not be physically addicted.

So all the people that did drugs multiple times and got hooked, act like an adult and clean yourself up on your own dime, or fuck off and die in the street.

naloxone isn't just 'another drug' it actually kicks opioids out of brain receptors and basically cleans you up instantly, causing precipitated withdrawals but saving lives in the case of overdose.

this is a preventative measure that first responders and police NEED, otherwise the individual is already dead before they get them to a hospital, and if the hospital has none there is no treatment but to let them die and bill them anyways.

I could argue with you if you talked about maintenance drugs being the only solution, but narcan is NOT a maintenance drug, and doesn't even last long in the system or have pretty much any subjective effects.

if you took it right now, with no opioid usage, it might make you feel a tiny bit shitty by kicking off some endorphins, but there would probably be little-no change whatsoever.

more overdoses inherently requires larger amounts of narcan on first responder hands.

unless your solution is to leave people on the side of the road choking on their own vomit, or letting their hearts stop.

This is a serious issue, enough that it has changed the average lifespan of Americans. While I can see people hetting bent out of shape about Suboxone, Methadone, Vivitrol, I don't think Naloxone is a big pharma price ploy. It used to be in every ER and hospital. Now, every EMT, cop and fire station in America has a demand, as well as millions of users and family members. The demand for the drug went up, because of awareness and what another user commented, because if used on am OD, it immediately sends the user into withdrawal and many combat medical help and use again, creating a secondary OD and less likely positive result.

Narcan is important. But immature discussions on an issue that is now bigger than the AIDS epidemic in North America deserves more respect than like, man, fuck the media comments...

TBH, I didn't even look at your username.

Do you see the number of lawsuits that pop up because of how corrupt the government has become in approving shit?

Do you know where other addictive drugs that hit the streets came from? Cocaine was a wonder drug Crack developed to boost sales of coke LSD Crystal meth MDMA

Idk, I just think that the government is more to blame than the answer to the problem.