Everyone thinks someone else is doing something about it. The scope of the program is pretty well unstoppable at this point, they have the tech to see a movement developing a world a way and crush it .. just through social media...

We all have to participate in stopping this cabal. The more of us that put our backs into it, the faster they will fall. It is just like this image here:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKmLuk-WsAAxNYW.jpg:large

We have to keep pushing on that flag until it is upright and then we can claim victory but the more people that push, the better.

We need a political party, we need a clear message, and we need a clear solution based on our collective research. We can't organize, we can't agree on a message, and the solutions are almost universally multi generational or violent. We often forget thar we are playing a multi generational game, and we started at the final level. Not saying we can't do it, but this can't be a leader less movement, we need beacons for like minded folk, unity message no party, racial, or religious divides, etc... OCCUPY was a great model. Unfortunately they have that model, and have procedure for crushing a similar uprising.

Make your own party and watch what their spy provocateurs can do to it.

Yea I mean just looking at declassified docs you can tell they have people infiltrate any organization capable of organizing more then a few dozen people. doesn't mean folks shouldn't try, ultimately the next revolution comes from the inside (our self), timothy leary may have had it right all along, turn on- tune in- drop out.

My favorite example is what they did to the OccupyWallStreet movement. It had a powerful message with a lot of public support: "We are the 99%; the 1% has been stealing from us for decades, and the 2008 economic meltdown was the last straw. Punish the bastards."

Say what you want about the politics of wealth distribution; our entire struggle boils down to a secret cabal gaining more and more control over the monetary and political system, to the point where they can break laws with complete impunity (as well as their application of mass psy-ops to keep the 99% distracted).

With a concerted effort from various CIA-connected media outlets, they began spinning the narrative. The most effective way of doing this was focusing on the "human element" instead of the message. Who are these protesters? How can they keep going? Will this method last? Why can't they get a unified message? Do they actually know what they want? Don't they have jobs?

The protesters were trying their best to bring attention to the issue of financial corruption, but all of the attention fell on them themselves. Because they often had a hippy vibe, it was quite easy to sour their message in the eyes of conservatives. If the protests were used to create a dialogue in the media about the judicial handling of the planned stock market crash and hostile takeovers of banking companies like WaMu, it would be dangerously un-divisive. Everyone thinks that the CEOs of those banks should be in prison. Or at least, about 99% of us do. But only about 50% of us are on board with hippies living off of their parents' bank accounts to indefinitely camp in hygiene-challenged parks (or however else the protesters are framed).

Then there was the opposition. One of the most effective methods that FoxNews uses to decimate public opinion of a group is to find the least articulate opposition debater and bring them on a talk show. After these bumbling normal citizens are blinded by the limelight and eviscerated, who in their right mind would support such a weak group?

Then there were the contrived and effective talking points. "99%? How about the 53% of Americans that actually pay income tax while the rest suck up welfare dollars?!" Again, politics of the issue aside, this is just so abundantly clearly a move to literally fracture the 99% in half to allow for infighting. We can't be united if half the citizens think the other half are welfare queens and half the citizens think the other half don't comprehend that poor people spend every dollar they make, and that money gets taxed, so it goes right back into the economy.

When all was said and done, OccupyWallStreet faded away into oblivion. We were so close to putting actual pressure on those at the very top, and now we've been fractured once more and are focused on an incredibly effective Distractor in Chief. It's amazing how readily and comprehensively the oligarchy can mobilize when they see a threat.

Someone gild this man.

Please don't. There are better ways to use money than giving it to Advance Publications.

True but it does help pay for Reddit itself.

Eh, Occupy shot themselves in the foot by not having central leadership to focus around a concise message. The media didn't help, sure. But it was doomed from the start with no set direction.

You aren't wrong, but that just made them easier to crush by the system I described. There was so much wrong with the final and political system that it was hard to get a central message. And, unlike AstroTurfed decentralized movements like #BlackLivesMatter, #OccupyWallStreet doesn't appear to have had billionaires funding it from its inception.

For what it's worth, spinning it back to their organizational failures is exactly the type of technique that submarined them. Who wants to go out and support an organization that everyone knows is hemorrhaging incompetency?

In other words, you bought into the fake image the media sold you and thus helped disarm the movement by not thinking it was a real thing that had any chance. Congratulations. You're part of the problem.

Why do you have to be rude to him? kind of a dick comment right you made.

Yes, because the NSA and US Gov are exceedingly polite to us. Good joke. /s

fuck yourself

No, I was familiar with occupy before the media really picked up on it, and I (successfully) predicted its demise from the get-go based on no central message. You talk to one guy in occupy, and they're saying they want violent redistribution of wealth. The next guy wants to audit the Fed. A third doesn't know dick about economics and just wanted to come protest. A fourth is talking about radical veganism and intersectional feminism for some reason.

If you think they would have succeeded (which means what exactly for a group with no central goal?) were it not for the media, you have your own problems with delusion. If you want to succeed at something, you have to have a defined goal first. Otherwise you have no definition of success. So unless you thought that weird kid in elementary school who ran around doing random shit before shouting "I win!" was onto something, you can't seriously think occupy would have gotten anywhere.

So you're saying, "Shit is so bad that we need 1000 changes to fix it" and because we can't simply pick one, nothing will ever get done? That reasoning is absurd. There were a lot of great ideas, but if you require them to distill it down into one before you listen to any of them, all you're doing is waiting for it to boil over into revolution.

Words are noise. Step back. Look at the whole picture. The message was crystal clear.

Lol no. No it wasn't. Not when you have some people screaming communist slogans, others screaming end the Fed, and others screaming about whatever random cause of the week was on their plate at the time. The only loud and clear message was that people are generally mad but have no idea what they want.

You are still just looking at the words. What did the Occupy movements do?

Very nice man, worth its own post. Divide and conquer works every time. The only way we can get change is with a new media.

THIS

MEDIA IS PUBLIC ENEMY NUMBER ONE

SUPPORT ALTERNATIVE MEDIA

Im thinking someplace that wont sell out, maybe funded by the people?

.1% have more wealth than the lower 90% combined. Something like 80% live paycheck to paycheck.

I get what you're saying but it only takes a dollar a month to fund your favorite journalist, so I think something is possible.

Since Showtime is mining browsers for bitcoin, someone should crowdfund a media outlet “by the people, for the people” and generate revenue to pay for verified stories. Alternative media will never work for the masses because there are too many crazy alt media people. It starts with trust in the source.

Yeah funded by the people is possible I think, after all there are already plenty of publicly funded independent journalists. Someone needs to bring all the credible folk together in one credible site. Right now we're too fractured. Whoever tries that goes straight to the cia's #1 hitlist. I'm looking forward to what wikileaks is trying to put together.

Many "alternative" media outlets are bought and paid for just as much as the traditional MSM. They've been grooming us with the illusion of "alternative" media for a while now. It's just as compromised.

IGNORE THIS GUY SUPPORT ALTERNATIVE MEDIA

LOL

Sure, just dismiss what I'm saying entirely without giving it any consideration. That's wise.

I needed to read this. The controversy surrounding dudes and their knees is totally sapping me. It seems so obvious: first amendment, free expression. Done. But holy shit... People can't get enough of it. Some of my army friends are so fucking drunk on nationalism that they're prepared to betray the Constitution in favor of forcing people to stand.

Like, holy shit guys. There's real issues facing us. How much has Russia been trying to effect our elections? Do you see what the Senate is trying to do to healthcare?

I just don't have the energy to keep fighting and calling and writing and debating any more. I know it's an assault on my senses to keep me complacent in line, but it's still working.

You mentioned some specific issues, I'd like to address them and maybe give a different point of view. I hope I don't come across as trolling as that is not my intention.

This business about NFL players standing for the anthem is a DOD-sponsored propaganda campaign in the first place. The fact that so many people are so heavily invested in the question now is simply a marker for how effective American propaganda really is in 2017.

The Russian meddling in the election is distraction. Even if they did manipulate our election, it is a sandfly on the bull that is the MIC dictation of every single election for the last several decades. Say the Russian elected Trump. How? By advertising on social media and fake news. The Establishment is simply angry that someone else dared to pull the same levers they have been pulling for generations.

See Cambridge Analytica and Edward Bernays for how this is done.

Healthcare. Healthcare is dead in this country. Accept it, move on to the next question: how the fuck are we going to take care of ourselves, our families, and our communities without help from the healthcare sector?

It's going to come down to individual people stepping up and providing the care that is necessary. I went to medical school. PA school and RN school are excellent alternatives. EMT training + wilderness medicine certification would be another excellent path.

And for God's sake, take care of your own health. Eat food that makes you healthy, exercise, and don't smoke, and you'll be safe from most of the things that destroy people before their natural time is up.

Be the change the world needs. Because the fuckers at the top don't care and if there's one thing we can be sure of, it's that they'll never actually help us. It's too late for that.

So it's on us.

Overwhelm is real. Turn off screens, go outside. Our salvation is in the natural world. Eden is waiting. We are only cast out of Eden because we are ashamed of ourselves. Embrace yourself, return to the forest.

Literally. Go into the forest and talk to the trees. Tell them your problems. They won't answer, but you'll know the answer.

This business about NFL players standing for the anthem is a DOD-sponsored propaganda campaign in the first place. The fact that so many people are so heavily invested in the question now is simply a marker for how effective American propaganda really is in 2017.

Great fuckin point. I do recall a time when the anthem played before players came out. Funny how such a small shift can have enormous repercussions down the road.

I do need to have a little commune with nature. I spent my summer indoors and in climate conditioned work. I'm always much happier in nature. Thanks for the reminder to get the fuck out.

Russia? The senate? All apart of the cabal that pays your army buddies paychecks.

Including all federal taxpayers in the US.

Which is why we should all opt out and democratically restructure the system minus the malignant tumors that convinced us all this was a good idea.

It's funny to think that a revolution might possibly be a good way to expunge those who seek to manipulate the masses, but it would definitely cast us into such chaos that they'd have no interest in manipulating us any more.

Nobody wages psychological campaigns on Mexicans.

Wtf was that last bit supposed to mean? Anyone who comes in contact with Western Media comes in contact with psych ops.

The potential gains for brainwashing Americans are far higher than brain washing Mexicans. I don't even necessarily mean Mexico; just any nation substantially poorer than the US

Hear hear! [Warning, long post incoming]

I would like to add that the psychological manipulation, censorship, and general sabotage that hits like a thousand cuts upon real movements, is incredibly powerful. I can only speculate that there are things we cannot even determine collectively, that are being particularly carried out to damage each and every one of our avenues of communication.

Let me explain: Facebook has an algorithm that determines what posts you see on your "newsfeed", right? Certain people and topics come up more often than others, and other things don't show up at all. The story is that it all depends on "your preferences": what you like, where you comment, what you comment, etc.

Personally, I have noticed that certain topics and people I am always into, that I continuously rave about, don't necessarily show up. The algorithm is supposed to respond to my demands, right? I'm supposed to put myself into a bubble of information and stories. But oddly enough, this does not happen.

The thoughts and media I end up consuming are quite against my liking. In fact, it appears to be a distractive propaganda of sorts. A common theme is that of suicide. Any time a "friend" mentions it in the slightest, it shows up on my feed. One example.

Anyway, let us take this a step further: if Facebook (and only one company among many in this tragic comedy), once they had you hooked, could design an algorithm that did not reflect your interests, what else could they do?

Perhaps they might just lose messages that you send to people. They may never get them. How could you know if that's the only way you have contact? Perhaps Google decides to trash an important email or two to some important people you just met. How would you know? Perhaps AT&T, with that call you made to them later, that went to message, never even arrived on their phone?

I'm not saying this is happening, but it is quite well within the range of the technological abilities we have. And if the elite are really that afraid of a new world (which they appear to be), if they could, they might well do so.

I am personally being censored by these organizations, targeted by Microsoft (hacked three times over a few years, cannot use Windows anymore), listened to by the NSA (of course), spied on by the Russians (the Chinese, oddly, don't seem to care), and am being censored and psychologically manipulated by Facebook.

Algorithms operate on an individual basis. These companies may have an extra eye or two on me, but it may certainly be happening to millions of us at once. I have expressed myself publicly, in person, on matters that many of you would find important, and was told, in no uncertain terms, that I would be murdered if I continued. I have pushed as far as I could without coming to ruin, and the lesson is this: when the time comes, when the fire falls from the sky, when the sea boils and the earth quakes, the systems of control now dividing us will fall. Be ready when they do.

How did you know they were spying on your particularly? And what was it like to try and stand up for what you believe is right to only be threatened and further watched by these guys? Is there anything one can do? How do we stay safe and private?

And what did you do to get on the short list?

Long Story, and only the tip of the iceberg:

I don't think there was any one thing, exactly. Prior to the hackings, which took place from 2011 - 2014, before I switched to Linux, I wrote a coming-of-age novel critical of modern, American society. I pursued an economic theory with a goal of free energy and balanced socialism/capitalism. I wrote instructions for a CPU that more replicate the memory systems in our brain. I pursued an original unified physics theory. Tangent: I asked a physics professor at the local university to take a look at the theory, and he gave me some quite important comprehensive critique. I met his son once, and six months later, his son committed suicide. A terrible tragedy. I have stayed away from the physics community since.

It would seem that these things were enough to get me hacked and censored. And when I say hacked, I mean HACKED. Complete loss of operating system, files and folders walled off. Since then, I have pursued much more work, and have been more or less free to do so, though within a "gilded cage" of sorts.

Except, of course, when you start playing improvisational piano in the rotunda and renegade lobbying at the statehouse. Talking to legislators and the governor's staff, persuading them that there is a better path. Within 2 weeks of first doing so, an extremely good friend of mine, in her mid-30s, who spoke 4 languages and worked for the Feds, dropped dead in her own apartment. They say it was the "wrong combination of meds". Shortly after, a guy in an SUV nearly hit me while I was walking on a neighborhood street. I had to jump into a ditch to avoid it. He sat there in the car, and I walked up to him and said, "Hey, you scared the shit out of me? What were you thinking?" He said nothing, but stared back with cold eyes.

I went ahead anyway, every week, and eventually ended up speaking to several hundred people on the grounds of the capital at the end of the political season. I watched several dozen people record my speech, yet nothing ever showed up online. I was detained for a short while and released. A vague comment from a bystander I received later that day: "At least we avoided an emergency."

Some months later, prior to the next session, I was told repeatedly by a good friend with connections, "If you keep protesting, they will murder you."

Keep in mind, I may be blowing things out of proportion, or using confirmation bias, or excessive ego-tripping or any other fallacies of subjectivity. Still, it is a very curious situation.

Occupy was controlled by the CIA from the get-go. Look at where the call to action came from.

imo this is a good starting point: https://anticorruptionact.org

There is also a reform party

For all of those reasons I value the Non-Aggression Principle. Its not perfect, but its a good start.

Ron Paul was the US's chance to take a stand against war and corruption. The only way to kill this parasite is to quit feeding it. Anything short of that just prolonges the problem.

Too bad Rand strayed from his father's convictions.

How's that?

Libertarian Party is the party you are referring to.

Libertarian Party values and laissez-faire capitalism is the worst possible economic model when the private sector doesn't even pay it forward as is. Libertarians try to convince you that the private sector is a saintly force when unchecked by regulation, but the most powerful representative entities are the very perpetrators you came here to complain about: Facebook, just for instance. Maybe it can work in local politics where sometimes third-parties actually get election winning numbers of votes and local businesses tend to be less fucky, but concerning the congressional and presidential elections, we must balk in the face of any third party until we can implement something like ranked-choice voting.

Pretty sure President Trump will start his own party soon. The 2 party charade is up, most people see through it now.

but

We need a political council of smart ass people. Maybe.

a leader will get assassinated like jfk. A group will get discredited in the news like 'lbm' (totallyirrelevant just an example A journalist will get suicided with two shots to the back of the head

i'll just let god take care of it.

You'll be waiting forever. There is no external saviour. The cause of the issue and the solution to the issue is us.

And the funny thing is we are god, we are completely within the consciousness of god, so you just replied to me with the same answer, leave it to god. meaning leave it to us and ultimately leaving it to us to change ourself from within , and not trying to change others. When we begin to heal ourselfs the consciousness as a whole will take care of itself and vise versa. We humans are like cells and right now we're a cancer .

Not all of us are cancer.

We're all definitely in this cancer and are ALL contributing to it right now. Have you ever rode inside a petrol car ? then yes you are part of the cancer trying to destroy earth. Don't take it the wrong way, we're all in this mess together and we will heal.

We are all in this together, but not everybody is cancer. Some people leave the earth better than when they came to it. "Drink from the well, replenish the well."

You are correct on all points. God is taking care of it. God needs instruments though. If you are a godly man might be worth asking him how you can help. You wouldn't sit around while your neighbour's house burned down would ya? Well we are in God's house, it's on fire, he needs help. We are all waking up a little too late to be of much use, but a thousand buckets of water goes a long way

Amen

Who says we have to agree?

Let's elect a guy that's just pissed about everything.

How about John Lyndon

I'm no Johnny Rotten, but I'll take the bait.

I'm just another poor, white American. Almost no chance in hell of getting elected, but, I'll risk assassination if there's actually a chance of helping the common citizen.

Haha ya I guess I'm not saying we need to agree on everything, we need to agree on one thing only. Moving on to a new system that's not designed by and for the ELITE.

no no no we need a party where we don't agree about ANYTHING

let's all just be completely disagreeable

why even call it a political party?

let's just get a huge angry mob together.

Look at the post arab spring governments to see what a big angry mob gets you. A big angry divided government usually..

r/ournewworldorder

Yes! Learn, learn, learn, question your views, then teach. Then organize.

We need to go further than repeating stuff on YouTube, to become real experts. It's challenging because of all the disinfo and accidental horseshit and bias. Go to lots of sources. See if your friends can find flaws in your presentation of a claim. Learn to rise above the childish taunting and whataboutism.

There are so many facets to hidden history it's really quite exciting. Process your fear and grief then dive in friends! More doors will open, you can't study the elite without touching on religion, magic, bizarre concepts, beautiful art and thrilling plots. The more we learn the better we can persuade.

Is that Kapernick kneeling on the left? LMAO!

I knew someone else had to have noticed, lol.

Ironically, I think that flag would be the first to go if the reins of power were yanked back crom TPTB.

Oh ya. It is true that the borders would eventually disappear and we would be one world, one people but god forbid the cabal is still holding power when it happens because they have very sinister, perverted plans for this scenario. Once their gone, we can stop being America and start being Earth again.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKmLuk-WsAAxNYW.jpg:large We have to keep pushing on that flag until it is upright and then we can claim victory but the more people that push, the better.

Got it. We need to kill more Japanese people. Or is it native americans? Because that is what that flag is based on.

No killing. War is worst than murder yet we tolerate it. It's time for something new: Unity There's only one solution. Unity is it.

lmao jobless kaepernick kneeling for welfare

Ironic, because that picture was faked. They had already raised the flag. After the battle, photographers had them raise a second one to get a photo op.

I'm sure the football player wasn't there either.

Ah, the photo can still hold meaning: 1 person can't push that big flag alone but together, we can.

Maybe we should elect an outsider president to drain this swamp

The age of 1 leader and many followers is over. The new age is all about a population that is both leader & follower meaning people lead as need be in any given situation and follow as need be in any given situation. That is the secret to our success.

Everyone thinks someone else is doing something about it.

In my case, it's not really apathy, I WANT to do something, but I don't think I'm in a position to make any real impact. At least not right now.

I'd try and at least spread the word and wake others, but Reddit's pretty woke thanks to r/conspiracy, and I really don't know how to bring the subject up elsewhere...

I'm in a similar boat, my job grants me no power to make change. Better to turn yourself into a walking red pill, think of yourself as the people who helped break neo out of the matrix. I've been subtly red pilling people for years, eventually one of these people may gain some form of power and hopefully some aspect of my philosophy I dropped on them expresses itself.

Everyone has power. I, personally, go by "Tower7" when I'm asked for my name at Starbucks. I let her call it out a few times, I watch for those who squirm or appear uncomfortable, then I ask those people: "Huh, what is Tower 7"? To which you get varying replies . While they are replying, you pull up your bookmarked video of the 9-11 footage on you phone and casually play just the collapse of Tower 7. "Oh I see, geez check it out.." Then you show them Zeitgeist, of course loaning them your earbuds (make sure they are clean!).

Then, when they look up, you grab Tower 7s drink. Make sure they see it. They will looks confused at this point, if they don't already. That's when you tell them, "you have a responsibility now, to tell other's ". Fucking red pilled the shit out of people like this.

Or maybe you just completely confused them entirely and left the barista standing there with a coffee in their hands.

So, was your coffee cold after waiting for a 2hr movie to end?
Patient patrons, I tell ya what..

The idea is to get as big of an audience as possible. Some may be ok just reading the subtitles since the other guy has the earbuds. He could probably split that with someone so they each have one ear bud. The others would have to be content to just watching it from a distance, with you narrating the movie yourself. Probably, the barista will already be aware of Zeitgeist, so there's no need to narrate to the baristas like you would at a Dunkin Donuts.

what a weird thing to say, or do..

The barista had an inside job

Mmk.

Fucking brilliant.

Love it!

What do you do when you come across people that just refuse to be red pilled and just argue every point you try to make to them?

Laugh, so you don't cry.

Don't take it to heart, because not everyone is ready / willing to be red pilled it is tough when it's family / friends. I've argued with these types plenty of times, it's important to recognize their points,see where they are coming from, and try to show them a BIGGER picture of how it effects them personally. Ultimately when I'm done talking with you, I dont care if I won or lost. If you come home after talking to me and Google "tower 7 collapse" , it's a win. Not only did I turn you onto one conspiracy , I've thrown you through the other side of the mirror. So you can give someone a red pill, or you can create a red pill. If you can turn that argumentative bastard into a red pill. You just won a thousand arguments. See where I'm going?

Zucking that shit left and right.

I think it's going to take a few high profile murders by angry citizens of people in charge of the spying.

We need something like "the purge" and hunt these Rights stealing pieces of shit down.

I absolutely agree. It is insane that, by this point, we have not had a violent revolution in response to the shit we put up with. It shows how programmed ALL of us are. No healthy population of people would sit around like we have. We are at the point where violent take-over and bloodshed is ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY. How much longer can we live with ourselves knowing the truth, watching where everything is going, and willingly do nothing? We have to be willing to risk our lives for this shit, because we will never undo this through social-media, voting, political parties, etc. We need to accept the harsh reality that not everything in this world can be solved by being the "bigger man" and trying to do it peacefully. The elites aren't peaceful. They are ruthless parasites who view us as they're cattle. They must be cleansed from this Earth.

It's becasue life is pretty kush. This isn't Russia in 1910. Most people aren't starving to death in the streets. We have many social ills for sure but when over 50% of America owns a 50" or greater tv, home sq footage has never been higher, we have never been safer from violence or disease, it;s kind of hard to become a revolutionary in the back of a Ford truck with a gun running from homeland security... for what? To make a "difference"?

All by design; they gave everyone creature comforts and fattened them up. Lazy and happy. They've created a society where people care more about creating fake genders than the basic human rights of humans. It's disgusting; and worse, very unlikely to change.

If people are generally happy why does it matter?

Because all the happy people pretend that everyone is happy.

All you can do is tell people about Christ, every day that you are given!

Bread and circuses. This is still the Roman Empire (which absorbed Egyptian, Babylonian, Hebrew, Sumerian, etc. control schemes and esoteric beliefs.)

I feel like at this point we are all so divided it's going to take something big to unify all of us.

Unfortunately, that's been the plan all along so they can step in an introduce to us their predetermined "solution" to the problem they have created. I know it's comin'.

I feel like the biggest issue right now among all of us, is the insane amount of people that cheer on censorship, "people shouldn't be allowed to be mean on the internet, so they should just be silenced!"

What!? How are people so willfully getting behind censorship?!

One baby step at a time is all it takes.

Scares me more than anything else, that people get offended and want to prevent people from saying those things. No, that's not the right answer, stop being such a fucking baby.

Yeah as if on cue I had friends respond to the Nazi marches with "please take our freedom."

It's got a name, Ordo Ab Chao, (Order out of Chaos) the 33rd degree Scottish Rite Freemason motto.

Also look up Hegelian dialectics and alchemical union of opposites.

That's absolutely right. Hegelian Dialectic was exactly what I was referring to. Good looking out.

Aliens, man, phase help us.

Honestly I think that's our best chance

Ever heard of Project Blue Beam?

[the boy typed furiously from his mother's laptop while eating Cheetos]

Super edgy dude.

I don't see them as human. Sorry, dude. Not in the same way that you and I are human. They certainly do not see us that way. We are totally expendable in the eyes of the elite. I wonder to myself what about my comment in particular sparks the need in you to throw out a rather childish remark towards me. Regardless, I take no offense to it.

what about my comment in particular sparks the need in you to throw out a rather childish remark towards me.

Maybe the part where you advocate killing people.

I ain't above it.

Oh it isn't absolutely necessary asshole. Saying that is your way of convincing the most easily convinced demographic to fight for your cause: angry people who need somewhere to direct their anger. Say you get 10,000,000 people all riled up and organized for your "violence is our last resort" shpeal, if those 10'000'000 got organized and focused for a non violent effective solution with an equal amount of passion as they would have for violence, they'd see great results. Ever consider that this violent mentality you have is part of the systematic brainwashing? It's easy to lose support and potential allies when you're seen doing violent/destructive acts. Look at what happened to BLM. Everyone loved it until the riots started and property started being set on fire, now the movement has lost traction. This makes it easier to shut down the movement.

You just don't understand the scale of the problem at this point. The elite have committed so many atrocities against humanity that it's absurd that we have not used violence against them yet. This "peaceful-protest" stuff is horseshit at this point. I don't like violence, but I am a realist and I understand that at this point in time, things have gone to far. We have been completely overrun by psychopaths. If we organize through the means that they allow us, they have complete control. The establishment will just infiltrate it with their own agent-provocateurs to get their desired outcome.

peaceful protests wont accomplish a lot, but that isnt the only non violent option. Be more creative than "lets kill shit". Not that im proposing any alternatives

"lets kill shit"

That's how you're interpreting what I'm saying? Oh, man....

Listen, dude. We can't vote 'em out, we can't rally with a bunch of picket signs to get rid of 'em, the media has people so divided and there are disinformation agents in every movement, there is no way to organize against the establishment in any meaningful way since all of our communications are monitored. Public opinion is continually shaped by their media, and entertainment industry. As long as those machines still stand, they are 100 steps ahead at all times... do you understand how evil the elite are? Like, really? I mean, here's just one example; they killed ~3000 people on 9/11 just like that. Isn't that evidence enough of what they think of us? And you're trying to justify why we should continue using their "safe" methods for change which have never worked.

I couldnt agree with you more that we need to fight, but it can't be war, it can't be bloodshed, it can't be physical. We need people, led by a true leader of your cause, to achieve victory through non violent means. Don't you see that this call for fights and violence is what all of human history is? We fight and wage war to get what we want and I assure you that "Sometimes fighting is necessary" is the exact the line that caused the World Wars and every way before and after them. Ghandi didn't fight, and he is revered for his methods. MLK didn't fight, and he got black people to where they are today. There are ways to do things without violence, and if we refuse to see this, we will never leave our cycle of destruction.

I like this idea, a lot, but I can't even fathom how to start something like that.

If we couldn't get it done in the last 2000+ years, what makes you think we'll overthrow TPTB at the peak of their power?

High profile deaths wouldn't make a difference. Theres more of the 'elite' than anyone here realizes I think. Its an entire society that we're just not part of.

Melania wore a $1,400 shirt to do some gardening and everyone freaked out, but theres hundreds of thousands (millions?) of people out there who wouldn't blink. They don't go to the same schools, they don't live in the same neighborhoods, the laws don't apply to them.

If you've seen Downton Abbey, you might've laughed about how frazzled they get whenever they have to talk about money, or how they can't deal with change. Understand that these people don't see themselves like you see yourself. Their money comes from nowhere because they don't have to earn it, they're upper class citizens and thats the way it is. You and I are lower class citizens and thats the way it is.

The history of the world is the history of the up upper class. Roman politics, medieval politics, modern politics. Its all the same game played for thousands of years.

Its not impossible to make it in, but theres no way you or anyone else will ever root them out.

As long as we can communicate we have a fighting chance. If the food and toys and shows keep flowing a mass uprising is unlikely.

Consider that successful modern revolutions are almost all started or aided by Freemasons. While there are improvements the people never really win, they get new rhetoric and new characters and maybe a colorful new flag.

The internet makes a lot more possible, and possibilities are the antidote for control.

Yes but even more people signed up for Facebook /insta/snap and nobody has a problem with that or turning on your location services. Or that iPhone is the huge share of the phone market and they still keep making a new one every other year that it's only upgrade seems to be spying on you better.

But he it's easier to connect with friends and whatnot so whatevs right. So much for voting with your dollar

The biggest coup in history is the magic trick that fooled people to use their real names, photos, personal data and association/link to others on "social" websites.

Who in the hell thinks it's a great idea to publish your name, with associated personal details on a remote computer you don't have control over? And not only that, you explicitly give the owner of those computers the right to use your personal information in whichever way they like.

The data is easy to compile and segment. And once you do that you'll easily spot the pressure and breaking points in societal relationships. Managing the population through division becomes fairly trivial at that point.

In an alternate reality where everything is the same except online social networks not only didn't take off but were actively shunned by most people: your details are still on thousands of databases.

Not your everyday lives, with pictures, videos, thoughts, complaints, martial status, online habits (oh yeah, social networks tracks everything you do even when you are not on the social network), etc etc etc.

Having you name, DOB and some detail related to a specific area on a database is fine. It's very limited. Social networks by design mop up e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g about you 24/7.

No most sheeple are just so naïve as to what is really going on.

Look at congressional approval rating, presidential approval, party approval, etc. People know what's up, the % of people who are truly sheep is getting lower every day. We are the wave hitting the shore repeatedly , exposing the rock underneath the sand. Get out there and red pill someone , anyone, about anything, make a THINKER out of someone

Ive imagined there must already be supercomputers crunching and churning out all kinds of stuff. They might alread have begun gaining consciousness. And the idiots running them have no idea.

I agree, I think we are in a lull right now where the computer /algorithm are just accumulating power and information. One day the shoe will drop and every conceivable network of people will be exposed

And yet, they don't. Name one single solitary crime they have solved or prevented simply by utilizing this spying technology.

How about the whole occupy movement? Pizzagate? It's not used for solving crimes it's used for oppressing those who oppose the NWO. That's why you don't see them busting down every dealers door in a 4 mile radius, which they are perfectly capable of..why expose tech to the courtroom on a low level crime when you could use it for another 20 years if you only use it to maintain / gain power. Look at all the celebs, politicians, sports stars etc, who have SHUT THE FUCK UP after getting a call from uncle sam about all the no no stuff they do.

I'll concede your point as a maybe, but I am of the opinion that their capabilities are MUCH less than advertised. Along the lines of a panopticon.

I honestly hope YOU are right. Continuous revalations about their abilities may in fact be a psyop in its self, not only against ourselves but other nations. I've seen and worked with government computer systems , they are usually glitchy as all hell. At the same time they've brought all the major tech companies on board , Darpa is how many decades more advanced then us ( they say 40 ish years) , NSA and cia leaks reveal deep collusion between government / "private" tech companies. Ultimately I hope for the best and assume the worst and usually land somewheres in the middle.

I used to be alone. Any attempt to discuss this stuff with anyone in real life was a waste of time and led to me being isolated and ridiculed. That was 20 years ago.

Now, I am amazed how often I hear random strangers IRL say things in our vein of thought as they discuss amongst themselves.

The vast majority of folks are still completely brainwashed idiots, but our numbers are indeed increasing, especially since the younger generations aren't relying on CNN to educate them about the world.

I wonder what the woke percentage rate is in public. I do agree that this past year was a massive awakening for many of us.

<5%

You know, the problem is 5% is actually a significant chunk of the population, if we weren't so fractured and infighting. The other day I was basically called stupid for not believing that fluoride hampers psychic abilities. My logic, if the government knows that drinking fluoride cuts your psychic abilities, they would have made some effort to limit fluoride intake in their own remote viewing programs.

Yes

Compartmentalization

The elite arent drinking tap water my friend.

What are they drinking? The blood of toddlers?

Its pretty easy to get a water filter that removed fluoride.

I know my Intuition got better

Good then we only need another 5% or so.

http://freakonomics.com/2011/07/28/minority-rules-why-10-percent-is-all-you-need/

But of that 5%, half of them are wacka-do conspirarists who fight tooth and nail the world is flat, or Chem trails are real or pizza gate. Arguing it's an inside job, government is listening or that they stage cous is different.

And the problem with that is what? Thats a poor example as Chem trails, pizzagate and inside job are most likely true, however flat earth appears to be a CIA / think tank agenda with the idea of discrediting.

Was going to say essentially this ☝️

CIA government think tank is creating the flat earth theories to distract and discredit us?

https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/72jb0j/rapper_bob_has_started_a_gofundme_campaign_to/

Or are there actually morons out there?

I'm agreeing it was an inside job is a real conspiricy. Discussing consirpricy's validity is well needed because if you just believe and run with every conspiricy you're just a nut job, not getting anywhere. but if you give an analytical eye to each theory and don't believe it all, then you're following the rules a conspiracy theorist should be following. Question everything right?

While not required, you are requested to use the NP (No Participation) domain of reddit when crossposting. This helps to protect both your account, and the accounts of other users, from administrative shadowbans. The NP domain can be accessed by replacing the "www" in your reddit link with "np".

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

Agreed, question everything.

There's always going to be someone out there who swallow everything, hook, line and sinker.

Unfortunately you may need more. For most conspiracies are a taboo subject. With any taboo subject someone will have a private view point that may be inline with the controversial side however if you ask them again in public or around others they will conform to the most agreed upon theory.

60% know the government is ineffectve or not what it claims to be... we can do this.

Wow

This is not a percentage of woke people. Trust in the govt is never high

They don't trust each other either though.

the problem is that, being woke might mean you belive in the lizard ppl, flat earth or other... well dumb conspiracy, but it can also mean you belive that 911 was an orchestrated fake terrorist attack to have a reason for a pathetic war or that you think the CIA has probably done more fucked up shit than Gestapos and KGB combined

The number of people who genuinely believe that the fun conspiracy theories are real is so small that it is insignificant, the rest of us are just having fun with them. Woke means you're onto the bullshit, not just buying a different brand than you were before.

That's my go to reply. I am in charge of giving flu shots at work, and they give me crap because some people refuse them and expect me to argue with them and get them to change their minds. I always say: "The same people who are saying the flu shots are safe are the same people who said they weren't spying on our phone calls, I can see why they don't belive them."

That's awesome. If only people knew that NSA eavesdropping was 1 proven conspiracy out of many...

Here are a few that are specific to medical conspiracies:

• From 1963 to 1966, Saul Krugman of New York University promised the parents of mentally disabled children that their children would be enrolled into Willowbrook in exchange for signing a consent form for procedures that he claimed were "vaccinations." In reality, the procedures involved deliberately infecting children with viral hepatitis by feeding them an extract made from the feces of patients infected with the disease

• Immediately after World War II, researchers at Vanderbilt University gave 829 pregnant mothers in Tennessee what they were told were "vitamin drinks" that would improve the health of their babies. The mixtures contained radioactive iron and the researchers were determining how fast the radioisotope crossed into the placenta. At least three children are known to have died from the experiments, from cancers and leukemia

• More than 30 years after Boyce and Almeida were released [from the "Fernald School of the feeble minded"], they found out that the school had allowed them to be used as human guinea pigs. In 1994 Senate hearings, it came out that scientists from MIT had been giving radioactive oatmeal to the boys - men now - in a nutrition study for Quaker Oats. All they knew is that they'd been asked to join a science club. Among those who attended the hearing was Almeida, also a member of the club. He says the boys were recruited with special treats: "We were getting special treatment, you know, extra dessert, we got to eat away from the other boys. We were getting extra oatmeal. We're getting extra milk." "But they forgot to mention the milk was radioactive," says David White-Lief, an attorney who worked on the state task force investigating the science club.

More recent stuff:

• The pharmaceutical group GlaxoSmithKline has been fined $3bn after admitting to bribing doctors and encouraging the prescription of unsuitable antidepressants to children.

• More than 10,000 American toddlers 2 or 3 years old are being medicated for attention deficit hyperactivity disorder outside established pediatric guidelines.

Holy shit. You should post those for everyone to see, not just those reading this comment section. I had never even heard of the first four.

I did a while back. You would think those links would be well received by the community, but it got like 7 upvotes I think. It was initially downvoted to 25 percent, so the only way I can get the word out is by posting it in a comment.

Those kind of examples make me wonder about that 1980s US public school mouthwash program. Anyone 'memba those packets with the clear-ish pink or purple fluid?

ok someone's got to go

I like that, but I have to point out that it was scientists who said the flu shot is safe while it was politicians who said they weren't spying on us. More people need to be listening to the scientists.

Is that what they say though? Read the vaccine information sheet and try again.

Just looked at it. Could you point out exactly what you disagree with if you want to get technical. Sorry if you missed the general point of my statement.

More people need to be listening to the scientists.

Sadly, science has been hijacked by the same bullshit that our governance has. More people need to be aware of the devastating effects of science fraud. It is fantastically more widespread than most people know.

http://m.spiegel.de/international/zeitgeist/spiegel-interview-with-whistleblower-doctor-peter-wilmshurst-a-1052159.html

Yes I agree. We definitely must learn to see through the BS when data is misconstrued or misused in a purposefully misleading way.

flu shots are not needed unless you're very old or very young. makes me wonder why they push them so hard... ESPECIALLY since theyre typically free. since when is medicine free in the US?

Flu shots are covered by most insurance plans because it's cheaper to pay for 100 flu shots than to treat even a couple of cases where they go to ER for it.

the cvs, walgreens, target, and walmarts here offer them for free

maybe the fine print is "if you have insurance" but I would not know because I never get them. that would make sense though

maybe the fine print is "if you have insurance"

That's exactly what it is. If you don't have insurance, you pay $30.

the cvs, walgreens, target, and walmarts here offer them for free

No, they do not. You are just wrong. I have no idea where you got this impression.

free with insurance

That's your point? Your understanding of the healthcare industry is based on what you see on pharmacy advertisements from a distance?

I now know where you got the idea but am sticking to my point that you very much need to educate yourself about healthcare. You should have known the shots aren't free.

It's about herd immunity though...

It's about herd immunity though...

Flu vaccines, according to the CDC, can range in effectiveness year to year from a dismal 10% to a still disappointing 60%.

There is no such thing as herd immunity when you're talking about the flu vaccine.

I got my first flu shot four years ago, and have been going back every year since. I'll be going for my next one soon.

I haven't been sick with so much as a sniffle in the last four years, which is why I keep going back for another one. Am I just a one-off freak example where it works? Who the hell cares, I love not being sick every winter.

If you don't want the damn shot, don't get it. I want it.

idk, maybe i just have a good immunity system but I never get flu shots and havent ever gotten the flu or a cold either. It seems pointless to me to get it

They work, but aren't necessary for most people. For one, there's a good chance you wouldn't get the flu anyway - I've never had a flu vaccine, and the only time I got the flu was when H1N1 was going around (which wouldn't have been vaccinated anyway). Secondly, for healthy people, the flu (at least general seasonal flu) isn't a big deal - it's unpleasant, but non-threatening. Thirdly, it's not an eradication method - for many vaccines, rigorous application to the whole population can effectively wipe out the disease (see, e.g., smallpox). There are so many strains of flu, and it so rapidly mutates, that that isn't the case here (which is why you need it yearly if at all).

Flu vaccines are a weird one. The majority of the time, I think declining a vaccination is dumb - it's not zero risk (nothing is), but the risks are very low compared to the potential downsides of the disease. High uptake of the vaccine can also lead to a vast reduction in the prevalence of the disease to the point where the vaccine isn't needed in the future.

Flu isn't like that though. If you're healthy, the strains of flu that the vaccine will protect against wouldn't cause any lasting harm anyway, and there's no lasting benefit due to the number of strains and rate of mutation. It's a far different situation, and I think it's entirely reasonable to turn them down (it's also, more or less, why the UK NHS only offer it to at-risk groups ).

There is no such thing as "safety". Nothing is totally "safe", everything bears risks, both seen and unseen, however small.

For example, even if the vaccine you were injecting was totally completely safe and did only and exactly what it was intended to do (very much up for dispute), simply the act of getting an injection itself - any injection - carries a risk.

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2015/09/15/vaccine-related-shoulder-injuries.aspx

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/30/health/30case.html?mcubz=3

One can argue that the benefits of the vaccine outweigh the risks - and that's exactly the debate we should be having. Instead you have hordes of mindless children crying "anti-vaxxer!" every time logical and reasonable questions are raised about the risks various vaccines post, the efficiency of various vaccines, which vaccines are appropriate to administer to which group of people and in which geographical locales.

The word post in your post ought to be pose, good sir.

The same people who are saying the flu shots are safe are the same people who said they weren't spying on our phone calls,

Wait, so the FDA was saying they weren't spying on our phone calls? I'd bet that was true.

Or are you saying the NSA is approving vaccines? I'd bet that isn't true.

Flu shots should not be what you compare it to. Illnesses like smallpox, which killed 100s of millions of people, have been wiped off the face of the planet with vaccines.

There are much more legit conspiracies to compare it to that anti-vaccine BS.

But you missed the whole context of what I just said, flu shots are my job, when they ask me why people refuse and I can't talk them into it by saying they are safe, I give them another example of a time they were lied to.

That is just not true though.

Anytime I mention spying on calls or am asked why I have tape over my selfie lense, I get blank stares and glances up and down, like they're looking for a foil hat. Then when I tell them "no seriously, and that it's been proven in the WikiL-" cut to eyes rolling.

I remember 20 years ago reading rense.com (used to be sightings.com) and trying to talk to my friends about it and they were like, "you're fucking crazy. There's no such thing as Eschelon, etc."

Anyway, now, not so crazy.

/r/iamverysmart

Not my problem you enjoy having your head up your ass. Take care, wise up.

yeah. Anyone who talked about eschelon and elint were written off as tinfoilhatters. Unfortunately now its worse. "If you havent done anything wrong, what have you got to hide?" "I dont do anything important online"

Came here to say this exact thing. Funny thing is, I don't even care anymore. We gave it away. We gave away our privacy in the name of "safety" never to return again. We collectively had an opportunity to do something, anything a decade and a half ago.......it's too late now. These days I just let everyone else freak out over whatever they want and I just do my best to enjoy the rest of my life.

because even though there are those who remain asleep it doesnt mean they will never wake up. It is up to those of us who know and understand what is going on to spread these truths. It isnt good enough to simply say we are being spied on. People need to know how it directly effects them for them to really want change. We have been vonditioned to feel that if it isnt happening to me then it isnt happening. You need to go to your friends and family with almost a slideshow presentation of sorts with facts that show whats is happening. Even if they wake up to the truth what will they do? all you and i or anybody can do right now is try to wake up the sleepy sheeps and hope that it tips the scale of the universe in our direction. This is my optimistic mind speaking. My realistic mind tells me the whole world can go to shit and the people who are on top now will stay on top after anything goes down. to me the only REAL solution is to have a personal wealth cap and say no one can ever be worth more than x. either this or we kill the bankers and take thier shit.

Option 2.

Well I felt like I woke up but I still feel confused on this topic (government watching) could someone explain why it is bad and should be abolished?

Why do some people still believe this country will ever wake up?

Yes. They will either wake up now or when the pain is so unbearable that they have no choice but to put a stop to all of this.

I think 99.5% would be more accurate.

I bet it makes everyone on this sub feel reeaaaaallll special thinking that they're in that 0.5% that knows the "truth"

I'd feel more special if that figure were closer to 75% interested in getting to the truth.

My favorite part is when you remind people this happened, they're all "yeah, but I don't have anything to hide." Which is the biggest pile of horseshit ever.

Why?

What if you saw someone searching through your garbage, claiming, “Well, why are you mad? Do you behave something to hide?”

I wouldn't be mad, provided they're not out to harm me

Governments not going to blast me on social media for having pictures of tampons stuck up my ass. Least not yet. The problem I have is that there is no such thing as a 100% secure data holding.

I'd straight up deck a motherfucker for some shit like that. Yet, that's exactly what the establishment does to us, and we're expected to just take it.

You'd deck a motherfucker? Daaaamn

Yeah, if someone took my phone from my hand and began rummaging through my private data. I think most people would not react kindly to something like that.

Would you be cool with them taking it from someone and they find out that they're a terrorist plotting to kill thousands? Or would that be different in your view because it prevented innocents from being killed. Because people seem to have forgotten that Islamic terrorists still want to kill us just for existing in the first place.

Nope. Freedom or security. Can't have it both ways. I'll take freedom every time and let the cards fall where they may.

Life is not an episode of "24".

Sho nuff. If some stranger took my phone from my hand and began rummaging through my private data. I think most people would not react kindly to something like that.

Yeah, but hopefully you wouldn't be the idiot saying "if you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear"? Which was obviously the original context here.

This and also removing context to change the intent of your information.

Go ahead. There's only a bunch of research articles, lecture slides, and porn. Just don't scratch my phone.

This is completely fucking different. Not like Government are going through your photos and texts in hopes of finding something embarrassing... Apples to oranges.

You can't trust a random, unhinged person with the same power as the government and its parts (mostly human who don't have any ill intent)

When they say they don't have anything to hide, they mean the don't have anything on them that the government is interested in, therefore for them it doesn't matter if they have their data or not.

A stranger might aswell spread your information, and showing your friends all about you might make for some awkwardness.

Would you rather the government have its hands and feet tied in any regard to head off potential threats? Or have people forgotten that terrorists are still around and do in fact want to commit more attacks against us?

That is a very important question, subject to much debate. I don't know that there's an answer.

There are plenty of articles out there if you bother to look that discuss how all this increased surveillance has jack shit effect on preventing terrorist attacks, here's just one:

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2015/11/18/opinion/mass-surveillance-isnt-the-answer-to-fighting-terrorism.html

There's a difference between my friends knowing everything i do on my phone and the government in aggregate knowing.

That's why some people don't care.

No, it's different because this would (presumably) be someone I know going through my phone which is much more personal. I don't care if some random government employees see a sext or a private conversation about how much I dislike someone etc

Can I have you ssn please, internet history, biometric information? You obviously having nothing to hide so you can trust me

Don't ever let the government know your ssn.

Lol

You might have malicious intent with that info. They're looking for bad things to be fixed

Ever said something that someone might get offended by? How about getting doxxed and having all those people knowing where you live, where you work, where your kids go to school. You have nothing to hide, right? Ever say or read something that might be considered anti-government (like this sub)? That's more than enough to have government agencies open up an investigation on you, talk to your friends, talk to your neighbors, follow you around? You have nothing to hide right, so none of that stuff would bother you. That kind of talk is crazy, right? Well if they can do it to the quakers, they can do it to any ignorant rando on the internet.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/10454316/ns/nbc_nightly_news_with_brian_williams-nbc_news_investigates/t/pentagon-spying-americans/

A year ago, at a Quaker Meeting House in Lake Worth, Fla., a small group of activists met to plan a protest of military recruiting at local high schools. What they didn't know was that their meeting had come to the attention of the U.S. military.

A secret 400-page Defense Department document obtained by NBC News lists the Lake Worth meeting as a “threat” and one of more than 1,500 “suspicious incidents” across the country over a recent 10-month period.

“This peaceful, educationally oriented group being a threat is incredible,” says Evy Grachow, a member of the Florida group called The Truth Project.

“This is incredible,” adds group member Rich Hersh. “It's an example of paranoia by our government,” he says. “We're not doing anything illegal.”

That's assuming evil intent. I don't think a government would be like that with the info. It definitely depends on who's deciding what's right and wrong though

That's assuming evil intent. I don't think a government would be like that with the info.

What do you mean "would be like"? My assessment makes no assumptions. What I have described is the current reality. That's how it is now. From here its just a matter of them perfecting their technology and integrating their networks. None of this is hidden information. Time to open your eyes.

You forgot my last sentence. I feel you

Ask them for their facebook password

That's personal information that one person is judging on another. Governments don't care if you slept with Kaycee then Jordan the day after, they care if someone's moving 50 tons of heroin or explosives

Them caring about what I do, and me wanting them to see every single thing that I do are different things. I know they don't care what I'm doing, because it's not illegal. That doesn't mean I want someone reading every single message I've ever sent to my friends and family, or to even have the ability to.

You're still equating an individuals judgements of your messages with a government's. Why would you care if a government reads your messages, it's not going to call you out on awkwardness or think of you sideways for how many hours of sleep you didn't get the other weekend. You want to stay private for individual reasons, it wants to know for the collective

Except the government isn't some magical entity, it's made up of individual people. And calling me out or not I don't care, it's an invasion of privacy. I don't want to be observed, I don't want to have the integrity of my information violated. And many people who work directly with this information have said themselves it doesn't stop shit.

If you have nothing to hide and nothing to fear, pm me your email address and password

You might have malicious intent

Why do you think the govt has gigantic data warehouses where they record and store all of our data (as revealed by Edward Snowden)? What is the noble purpose for this?

Statistics. Raw data. How could I know to improve what people don't openly talk about. Or see trends that leads to inventions

If that was the case, why did they lie about it for so long? Why the secrecy? And why is Edward Snowden avoiding prosecution in the US? Why did he have to blow the whistle at all?

Maybe the guessed the public reaction would hinder it.

Maybe they do have malicious intent. I'm not privy to that info, so I don't know, but I would like to assume the best from the people who are responsible for me. You don't snap your own possessions in half just for giggles, you know? All I know is I'm not doing anything wrong, so why should I care what they see with all that info they gather?

Maybe the guessed the public reaction would hinder it.

That is not a good enough reason to lie about something. This should be enough to prove malicious intent. It wouldn't have been denied by the govt and required the need of a whistleblower if there were good reasons for it.

I would like to assume the best from the people who are responsible for me

That is a very naive assumption. I would also like to think that way, but I have to be honest with myself and everything that has been done by the ruling class shows that they do not have my best interests in mind.

You don't snap your own possessions in half just for giggles, you know?

Of course. How can we be the livestock of a system that doesn't work? I wouldn't feed my animals well if I owned a farm too.

You've never lied to not hurt someone's feelings?

If everything they've done has been to hinder us, how are we still here? I didn't build that road, stock the grocery store, maintain all the electricity and power lines, put handcuffs on the mugger with a knife

If everything they've done has been to hinder us, how are we still here?

How are the farm animals still there? If you run the farm, you don't kill them all on the first day; they are not your enemy, you are just living off of them. You care for them and ensure they breed safely, killing off the older ones only. Like I said, we can't be the livestock in the system if the system doesn't even work.

You've never lied to not hurt someone's feelings?

Sure, but I don't lie if there is a good reason for something I was doing that may seem evil. Telling a kid that the shitty picture they drew is beautiful is a harmless lie.

Anyway, this is kinda beside the point. The more important thing is that it is very naive to assume they are storing our data just for statistics when it can be used for many other nefarious purposes that would greatly benefit a state that is doing anything it can to protect itself above all else.

I don't have a problem with the livestock comparison, if that's the analogy you want to use. We are the small parts of a whole (we're much more complex than farm animals or cogs in a machine, but you know what I mean).

The state doesn't exist without us. Protecting itself is protecting us. It can be used for bad, which is on us to make sure the people with access aren't the ones who would use it for such

Have you ever heard of the deep state? You don't get to decide who has power over you. That is ridiculous. There is even a Princeton study that proved the US is not a democracy but an oligarchy, more specifically a plutocracy.

We have the power to decide

Are you sure? Here is a link to the Princeton study.

When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy (emphasis mine)

Would you mind refuting the findings?

I'm saying choice. We vote. Or we change it. Or we continue and do nothing. But we have the power

Yes, we do have the power to denounce govt and work outside the system. But working within the system (voting) will not bring about any change, as was proven by that study. The state protects and serves the wealthy, not the general population, which was my original point. The govt works for the ruling class, not for us (plutocracy).

And my point is we make it so it's not like that. I don't disagree with you

How can we make it so it's not like that? We either raise a trillion dollars so we can buy back our politicians from the billionaire ruling class. Either that OR we rise up, start a revolution, and create a new system. (I like the latter).

"You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete" - Buckminster Fuller

Saying you don’t care about privacy because you have nothing to hide is the same as saying you don’t care about free speech because you have nothing to say.

Guess who said that.

Those are different. Having no privacy is me doing nothing while they search. No freedom of speech is them limiting my expression. I'm okay with one, not the other

Well, I’m afraid you’re missing the point then.

Just because you’re okay with one and not the other doesn’t make it different, or right - that’s the point. Reversing your analogy - if you have nothing to say, then you’re passively doing nothing, and you’d be okay with it. But if you didn’t want anyone searching, then they’d be actively violating your privacy.

The point/morality doesn’t change based on what you’re okay with.

It's not my personal morality that's determining what I'm okay with, it's the events transpiring. Searching me is not actively harming whereas telling me not to speak is. They're different scenarios

Okay, I see what you are saying, but I really do think you are missing the point entirely.

The point that Snowden (source of original quote) is making is that they are both actively harming you by violating your rights, and if you don't care about one, it is equivalent to saying you don't care about the other, simply because you think it does not apply to you. We are afforded both of these rights equally under the Bill of Rights. Your privacy - in any of its forms, whether physical or virtual - is your right, just like freedom of speech or religion or assembly.

Saying you don't care about the right to privacy is the same as saying you don't care about the right to protest because you have nothing protest about, or saying you don't care about religious freedom because you aren't religious.

If you were to be stopped on the street and searched, or if you were to have cameras installed inside your home, I think you would consider that to be actively harming/impeding you in the same way as "telling you not to speak is". Wouldn't you agree?

This is a great reply, well done.

Oh why thank you

because you're not the one who decides right from wrong. they are

Which is why we vote who's making those decisions

^Assuming the voting process isn't co-opted and corrupted (it is).

So it was a collective misplay. It's on us to not let it happen again and to fix the system we're in.

All I'm saying is being anti surveillance for the sake of paranoia is the wrong thing to focus our misgivings on. Be anti government because the government is corrupt, not because we want to "protect our privacy"

Democracy is the pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual incompetence.

So the answer is increased individuality?

Yes, that's the answer. Can't fix individual incompetence with welfare, affirmative action, etc. All that collective shit makes it worse.

It won't be worse if it's fixed. Individual incompetence can be fixed, but maybe not by the reasons you mentioned

i think we should stop crowd funding with guns (taxation is theft) to help those who are unwilling to help themselves (welfare)

McCarthyism is why. We cannot know what people will be persecuted for in the coming days, weeks, years, etc. Tomorrow the government could decide that fans of Game of Thrones are loyal to the British Monarch and traitors to the US. You may have nothing to hide today, but you don't know what is worth hiding tomorrow.

I feel you. That's why, in theory, we vote for people who won't take things out of context or wrongly condemn masses

The "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear." arugement is dumb on so many levels.

It prevents innovation and evolution of society. It often means the most popular opinion remains so.

Imagine if "If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear" was used to prevent you from speaking out for gay rights, womens right, anti slavery, the fact that we live in a solar system, etc.

Plus some people just don't want to be public about their inner most thoughts and opinions even if they aren't illegal in the slightest.

Privacy is a right? On a personal level, yeah, I can understand that. To a government entity? I don't see the problem. What do I care if they know how many times I wipe after I shit or if I like this girl. They're a government, not some person I'm trying to save face for to impress

Ya because a government has never made a mistake, no one has ever abused power.

Never has any government abused someone because they were suspicious of them...

https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/torture

That's what I said. Not all governments are paragons of virtue, which is why we should fight when it's not, because corruption does happen

Ask them if they shut the door when they go to the bathroom.

That's personal privacy, governments could care less about how many times you shake after you pee although people might

I donate to Wikileaks. To Mozilla and EFF. Because I stand for government oversight. Wikileaks has just been labelled by the US govt as a "hostile intelligence agency", so how does that now make me look in the eyes of the government? What happens if I run for office one day? My guess is I'd be hamstrung with an unlimited folio of weaponized personal information.

I'm going on the discussion about governments, not necessarily the US in particular. If you have worked with an "enemy of the state" then attempt to run for a position in that state, it only makes sense they would stop you.

The issue we can agree on is that the state has to be morally in the right. Which isn't true in many cases, I feel you

I'm going on the discussion about governments, not necessarily the US in particular.

Right, I'm taking a specific example, but my point is more general. A democratic state shouldn't have the power to determine who runs for office. It should be the choice of the people, and in service of the people.

Because at that point it won't matter. They could just fabricate evidence and say it was observed via surveillance even if you were literally a saint.

That's why we have to make sure people who would do that stay out of those positions

Everyone who is awake was still asleep at one point

I still refuse to tell myself I'm totally "awake". One thing I've learned through all my research and observation is that you're always ignorant of what you're ignorant to. The man who knows something is that he knows nothing at all.

Well yeah, information is boundless, there's always more than can be learned. Just because you're awake in the sense that you're aware of how backwards and corrupt our reality really is, doesn't mean you've learned everything that you could possibly learn and it's silly to think that that day would ever come.

The majority of people don't want to wake up. You could shove all kinds of truth in their faces but it wouldn't register. We're living in a time where masses of people literally can't understand logic and reason.

Philosophy was removed from public school curriculum many years ago. Critical thinking is rare these days.

A-FUCKING-MEN

That's it. You found the answer. The removal of philosophy has led to a generation of idiots who cannot critically thong. Bravo. Not like replacing philosophy with coding or computer classes will help anything!!!

Or just teaching general logic and reasoning, cognitive biases, logical fallacies, etc.

Studying the meat of philosophy is a lot more useful than studying the history of the different great philosophers that have existed over the centuries.

You're taught about these in EVERY SONGLE writing and rhetoric course. This sub is a joke and you're all fucking retarded - keep thinking you're the 5% of population who are "woke".........

Hey there, it looks like we found one of those idiots that wasn't taught logic and reasoning right here. Isn't that cute how he celebrates his own ignorance.

😂

Logic and reasoning is taught through any basic English and rhetoric course. If you haven't realized that, then pay attention in school. If you went to school back when philosophy was taught before college, then I hope you can understand that school systems STILL teach logic in reasoning; You're the only here being ignorant if you believe they don't.

The guy below didn't have to call you an idiot, but there is a large logical flaw to your argument. You assume that the removal of philosophy was necessary in order for programming classes to exist. That's a strange assumption and is obviously completely false.

My point being philosophy is no longer needed in a middle school or high-school. There are more relevant courses for kids to take that can actually be beneficial in their lives. Take philosophy in college and pretend like you understand everything about life if you truly want. Writing and rhetoric courses teach you plenty about questioning biases and examining different point of views.

Lol take writing and rhetoric courses and pretend like you understand everything about life if you truly want.

No one can understand everything about life, hence the argument philosophy no longer being taught is a bullshit argument for claiming people don't care about certain aspects of the government and our reality.. Writing and rhetoric courses do challenge your way of thinking and approaching biased sources.

Has it ever been different? As usual, Aldous Huxley knew the score...

People can barely form sentences these days when goaded in real life. You ever seen an political argument between anyone that wasn't just them bullshitting about whatever they think they know about, trying to explain things with only the extremely superficial understanding that they really have of the subject.

What good has 'waking up' done you? There isn't anything that most people can do, even if they devoted their lives to fighting TPTB. Not smart enough to take them down by being clever, not rich enough to play their own game, not charismatic enough to rally people against them. There isn't anything to be done.

If you're born without any legs, it doesn't do you any good to spend your life fighting against that cosmic injustice. You're better served just trying to find what pleasure you can, when you can...

There isn't anything to be done.

I'm not sure you're right, but it would take someone smarter than me to figure out what.

It's not about whether it does me any good. I simply want to know the truth. I want to know if I'm being lied to.

What are you going to do about it? Keep posting online as an armchair warrior, because thatll help

Wow why are you even here

Hmm what does that say about the guy that read it.. and still took time to comment, you're worse than you think they are

What could you do to stop it? Aside from going completely off grid

Exactly. I'm "awake", but I actually don't give a fuck if the government is looking at me googling "vegetarian dinner recipes" like whatever, no they're not spying on me. I'd rather focus on my community, myself, and the people I care about. It's the only stuff I have actual control over.

Yeah I don't really give a fuck if the government wants to see what I'm doing. But I have more of an issue with businesses or individuals doing so because they don't have a whole country (and then some) to worry about.

These companies can offer you coupons and relevant items you'd actually consider buying. Not like they are collecting your SSN and Birth Certificate. We live in an era ruled by the internet, what do you expect? Companies want to efficiently advertise - would rather have that than a ton of ads with items or brands I don't care about, but then again, I use multiple adblocks, so who cares.

It's weird because I agree with you and feel confused on the inside at the same time.

I don't know what to do with my hands now.

I give a fuck if the government is looking at me. It's none of their fucking business and a violation of the Constitution.

Increase the noise-to-signal ratio?

It's hard when memetics are at work.

Take into consideration how many people would be completely lost if the power grid went down. We are becoming much too reliant on modern technology and forgetting the true art of self-sufficiency.

Forgetting? That art is long gone. Millions would die if the grid went down for an extended time period.

Idk i think the amish might disagree

Posting a public written post, on a public website, that the government can read and prepare accordingly. Duh

A fine looking girl working at Verizon brought up VPN's and the take down of the Silk road the other day. Caught me off guard seeing as she was maybe 21 years old and brought it up after I told her I thought Verizon's new rewards program with super cookies was sketchy. It gave me hope at least for those who work in the tech field.

Except they aren't. No one is listening in or collecting data like that. They are collecting data that you made a call and to whom but they aren't listing in on it. Additionally they arent looking at your emails, I'm not even sure if they have the ability to see that you made or sent one from an account. So basically OP, stop posting lies unless you can back it up with facts.

No one is listening in or collecting data like that.

and

They are collecting data ... but they aren't listing in on it

and

Additionally they aren't looking at your emails,

and

I'm not even sure if they have the ability to see that you made or sent one from an account.

tl;dr /u/Ducttapehamster has not been paying attention.

You had my comment and you managed to make it seem like I said the exact opposite of what I actually did say. How come you don't work for Fox news?

Additionally they arent looking at your emails, I'm not even sure if they have the ability to see that you made or sent one from an account.

PRISM), although officially targeted at specific individuals/addresses rather than a broad strokes dragnet, has that ability.

Regardless, even if we were to assume your point was true, I don't know why we should feel any better about massive collections of metadata. Companies like Google, Facebook, and Amazon have demonstrated pretty thoroughly the power of aggregated data to sway the masses, and that's with them being relatively benevolent actors.

We absolutely should be concerned about this, especially if it hasn't yet reached the point of dystopian police state, because if we wait to raise our voices until then, it will have been too late already.

But the US government =/= Google, amazon, or apple or whatever company. And OP was specifically talking about the US government. Yeah prism does exist but as far as we know it's not used on citizens.

Yea... people in this sub have gone from logical conspiracies to “government is our enemy” conspiracies ever since Trump took office.

It's been like this since obamas second term really. Remember Jade helm?

Naive is thy name.

The problem is we don't know, we're expected to trust, to have what is called "National Faith", a belief without proof that the CIA won't do "bad things". I know of countless unbelievably evil things the CIA have done in the past, as revealed by declassified documents and whistleblowers, so personally I'm all out of Nationalist Faith.

I think you're underestimating just how much processing power would be required to sort through the amount of information that could theoretically be collected by the government on a daily basis. Not even the most powerful supercomputer in use today would be able to keep up with the influx of data that is generated by over 300 million people. Quantum computing will make it possible however, but that's a long time off since that technology is still in its infancy compared to traditional computing.

Um... Per CALEA, they can and do listen to your phone calls, this is not even a secret, it's in the legislation.

Additionally they arent looking at your emails, I'm not even sure if they have the ability to see that you made or sent one from an account.

The NSA documents show that they can and do. The XKeyscore documents list that they do a full-take (i.e. ALL data that passes through the NSA systems) and make it searchable by email address, and NSA has unencrypted access to outlook.com emails which they wouldn't need unless they were interested in the contents (metadata -- from and to addresses -- would be visible in transit even if, e.g., PGP is used). To use Snowden's description of XKeyscore:

You could read anyone's email in the world, anybody you've got an email address for. Any website: You can watch traffic to and from it. Any computer that an individual sits at: You can watch it. Any laptop that you're tracking: you can follow it as it moves from place to place throughout the world. It's a one-stop-shop for access to the NSA's information.

I am legitimately curious as to what you are referencing ? Excuse my ignorance, thank you

Besides all of the Snowden leaks, of which there are many and should be gone through at least once by everybody, we have additional information outside of what Snowden released. You may not be aware, but there were quite a few NSA whistleblowers besides Snowden, and most of them came out years prior. William Binney, Thomas Drake, Russel Tice, Karen Stewart.

William Binney (Former high level NSA analyst, also whistleblower pre-Snowden): “At least 80% of fibre-optic cables globally go via the US”, Binney said. “This is no accident and allows the US to view all communication coming in. At least 80% of all audio calls, not just metadata, are recorded and stored in the US. The NSA lies about what it stores.” https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jul/11/the-ultimate-goal-of-the-nsa-is-total-population-control

Are all telephone calls recorded and accessible to the US government? FBI official says yes. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/may/04/telephone-calls-recorded-fbi-boston

(automatically transcribed to text perhaps?)

Russel Tice (another NSA whistleblower pre-Snowden): "I Saw The Order To Wiretap Barack Obama In 2004." http://www.businessinsider.com/the-nsa-spied-on-barack-obama-2004-russ-tice-2013-6.

Eschelon was on 60 minutes back in the year 2000. The relevant part is 13 minutes. Highly recommended.

NSA whistleblower Karen Stewart, harassment with targeted energy weapons: http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2016/04/nsa-whistleblower-karen-stewart-speaks-candidly-illegal-criminal-nsa-fbi-programs-organized-stalking-electronic-harassment-usa-abroad.html

What the hell am I supposed to do? Start campaigning for CIA transparency and reform?! Between working full time and studying?

My solution was just don't be a terrorist.

Bear in mind that a big fraction of the population is not willing to be honest about their deep opinions. Consider a serious Biblical literalist Christian, who also is a military vet and a cop. This guy believes that gays will burn in eternal fire. He also knows that if he "reveals his power level," the VA will cut him off and the cops will first fire him, and then beat his head in while he is "resisting arrest." So he keeps quiet, and he keeps fingering the well-worn mini Bible in his pocket, looking for a chance and wondering if he's going to get shipped off to a FEMA camp.

If an external black swan disrupts the USA, then a lot of people with unpopular opinions will no longer be worrying about keeping quiet to preserve their jobs. If the pensions blow up and there is no more pay even for cops and vets, do you think the cops and vets are going to retain their false veneer of political correctness? I don't.

But bear in mind that people's deep beliefs are not likely to gel into a feel-good, big-tent populism. If there is a major crisis - if, for example, the EBT cards stop dispensing welfare payments - then a lot of angry, repressed people might vent their rage on each other.

There is no way they could possibly listen to every conversation, or see every keystroke, or track every movement. And if they did, they would die of boredom.

Well duh. Hey use technology that filters out benign info.

It boggles my mind that people are so naïve as to not understand this.

I understand it, but if you read the post title, it's a little misleading.

Fair enough. Though, the principle of it is true. It's not so much that every bit of our info is looked at individually, but that's it's available at any time.

It's disconcerting.

Benign info like every conversation between normal Americans?

They use filters that search for keywords that are used often. For example this comment wouldn't stand out even if I mention a terrorist attack, but if you have a conversation with someone and you're planning one your words and phrases would stick out like a sore thumb against the background noise for a computer. Though it's not quite as simple as that and it's a very complicated procedure. Hell I'd wager most information collected doesn't even make it to human hands, it just gets sorted and destroyed automatically by the computer algorithms that determine what is and isn't viable intelligence data.

There's a reason why our intelligence agencies have their own supercomputers, they are literally the only computers capable of sorting through vast amounts of data at a relatively fast pace.

If you and a friend are talking about starting a movement with the goal of taking money out of politics, exposing the federal reserve scam, the military industrial complex, or governmental complicity in the 9/11 attacks, you can rest assured that you're being monitored and your efforts will be thwarted.

Sure thing bud

Because what can we do? I'd love to fight this, but pop culture literally runs on the same devices that are watching us. The only way I can sleep is by telling myself that if they're collecting everything surely they can't watch everything, there's too much data to sort through.

In 20 years politicians will use this as another campaign promise and then the people can try and hold them accountable.

AI is coming to aid in the sorting and processing...

Pop culture is part of the problem. Reject it.

Think about it for a second: if they had done it any sooner, people would have reacted differently. The timing of admitting the culture of spying was planned so to be accepted without incident.

It was also timed with shows like Person of Interest that made it seem cool and helpful and like the designer of the mass spying system was really kind and it was all for justice.

Wake me up when we can do something about it

Yea sometimes i wish i could just get go back to sleep. Put me call in the matrix please ignorance is bliss and i want some fake steak

funny that we are literally on the verge of WW3 with North Korea.... yet the Government is more interested in Joe Blow from Idaho's internet search history... I guess when the US is nuked to death, we won't have to worry about being spied on.

They are all in on it together. To every so often cull the herd.

Don't worry, you'll figure it out. Or you won't.

Russia and US = FRIENDS.

US and NK = FRIENDS.

its all a show my friend. It keeps YOU occupied and them in power.

I felt so overwhelmed by this fact in 2012 I was depressed for a couple years. The PRISM program coming to light should have been a turning point but now it seems like just another road stop along the way of total information awareness.

It is my sincere and unashamed hope that right now someone at the NSA is having to study images of my asshole to discover my possible ties to extremist groups.

This reminds me, my friend was in the marines and was in the process of transferring into a more private area of the marines, working on computers and such. And I got a call one day, it was the FBI, asking me all sorts of questions about my friend, which I didn't understand because if they easily have access to people's online info, why were they calling me and asking me weird questions about my friend?

Security clearance?

My favorite response

" I don't care because I have nothing to hide. I'm not doing anything wrong "

Thats not the point mom

Then what is the point?

That they should not be collecting everything just because they can, and who knows when they will pull out something on a person, and who would have access, and can they be trusted with it? How many times has the government had something lost/stolen/not properly destroyed, the list goes on.

It's a nice bunch of information to have access to for any kind of business. You could have connections or some other kind of backdoor and the world is your oyster.

It isn't a question of whether you have done anything wrong but more how useful are you?

Right, and even if you trust the current iteration of our government not to abuse that kind of knowledge, it's not like the database self-destructs every new administration...

it's limitless power the kind of which is guaranteed to subvert democracy. you are not important but every politician who has ever done something dirty online is ripe for blackmail by actors who are immune to the democratic process.

also if for some reason the government decides to turn it's all seeing eye on you you are fucked fucked fucked.

How do we fight back?

Buy bitcoin and stop using big banks.

Sooo when did they do this?

Complacency has displaced reason.

Vaccinations are not safe and/or effective for everyone.

Prove it.

CDC.gov figured it out.

If you think that they are, you are misinformed.

Now you are just lying.

You are misinformed. I Reported you and and blocked you for abusive behavior.

I wonder where polio went.

You can't not "spy" on meta data. It's already out there.

And 4.9% of people"fight back" by posting angry comments.

End to End encryption. The final solution.

Shit my life isn't that exciting. At least if they are listening I can pretend to be a part of a secret spy ring trying to outwit the evil overlords that have corrupted the top brass in the military and government and my grocery list is a code designed to relay messages to the underground ring of forever Bernie Sanders supporters that will save us all.

Or something.

Dude Obamas cool!

People won't see the consequences of loosing privacy til it's gone. It drives me mad that the older generation isn't smart enough or care enough to deal with the continuing loss of privacy we are currently facing.

Even if it has a password, American courts can apparently just hold you in contempt until you unlock it. So much for the fifth amendment.

So long as the cheeseburgers are served hot, nobody cares.

Why do some people still believe this country will ever wake up?

Because the "dream" is better than any reality you can offer them.

As long as the majority of the populace is capable of meeting their basic needs (food, water, and shelter), the population will remain compliant and passive.

Another way of looking at it is that right now, you can search anything you want, go to store and buy the things you want, you can travel freely. One's privacy, especially from the prying eyes of the government, is not really a concern because the effects of it are not present enough on a tangible level to warrant the average person's attention.

Lastly, we can live without the internet. I'd argue we can live without cars, phones. It might time to adjust, but we'd still do it.

We'll "wake up" when lose the thing that we cannot live without, the thing that will make us rise up and fight. That's what you need to remember; no one is waking up because what's being taken from us is something people won't rise up and fight for.

I certainly agree with everything you've said but less us not forget their agenda beyond enslavement. It's a bit more esoteric and difficult to grasp for the majority of people.

https://youtu.be/e2qrrLtD9jw

It's about to be taken to a whole new level with street cameras. You won't be able to go anywhere without the government tracking your movement.

Facial and car recognition is next. So basically they just get a shot of you in your car with IR sensors and they have a database of people. And bam. Done.

I HAVE THE POWER!!!!

And because of this species of the walking dead, the government and corporations run the world, stupid Kardashian losers in life ...

Then they know Hillary is really Crooked!

Check. I don't give a fuck. Watch me if you want. Don't if you don't.

it's over. save yourself and your firstborn.

The thing about all this is: we can't stop them and the only way they don't spy on us is giving up on technology and internet, which is kinda impossible because a great percentage of the population is already addicted to it and it already part of the public system of many countries.

The future is for the ones that knows to hack and have the information

WAKE UP SHEEPLE

I think it's more a case of everyone going, what can we do about it. I think everybody was shocked but not surprised and when nobody did anything about it they figured that the government was complicit. Plus they drive the narrative so if they ignore it long enough it will go away and people will accept it.

That's the worst part. Nobody cared and ridiculed as if nothing had changed.

If nothings happened of what we've done that they have seen, then just bc big brother is watching doesnt mean big brother is going to doxx us

I put a sticker over my webcam and disconnected my microphone as best I could. My friends laugh at me and try to take the sticker off. They don't get it, it seems.

If you don't do anything wrong you have nothing to worry about

That's not the point. We have a right to privacy

Cool, send me a recording of every phone call you've made in 2017, then. Also go ahead and forward me all your texts. Thanks.

The only problem with this argument, is that the government define what "doing anything wrong," means; and in a totalitarian scenario, continually reducing the number of legal actions that people can take, is what they spend most of their time doing.

If we let things go to the point where people start making the response you are here, then that in itself is a warning sign; because if you actually cared about your own freedom, which people in more truly free societies are educated to do, then you wouldn't make that response to begin with.

Your argument is one that I would expect from someone who has already attempted to resign themselves and accept the fact that they are living in a cage.

Even sidestepping the fact that people have a right to privacy regardless, "do[ing] anything wrong" is a very broad category. To have nothing to worry about, you have to not only avoid anything illegal, but also avoid anything that may be misinterpreted or may become illegal. Further, it's not only illegal acts that have the potential to be damaging - say you have political aspirations. Would you really want the incumbent to have a complete record of everything dumb/embarrassing you did e.g. as a teenager? You may not think you've done anything wrong, but a well-timed leak to the media could sink you regardless.

Not this guy I got on tor got me a lil vpn and got of mediasites.

I wish all of this were true....

This is not a conspiracy. It was revealed by a validated source. Everyone needs to start reading the Intercept and listening to what Noam Chomsky has to say.

So the things I've talked about that I shouldn't have done- when should I expect to get in trouble for it? Serious question. If they've heard me talking about bad stuff I did I want to know if it's ever going to be used against me.

I'm cool with it, just wish I was getting paid for every file they look at.

Meh. I hope they like my porn sites. 😏

They know you are a good serf. One that can be manipulated into submission with sexual deviancy if needed.

Not me

Well, they just said what most people already thought has been going on since the 80's. Those spy movies pretty much help to usher that in.

As far as will this country ever wake up? Well this weekend will NFL protests, I think we are making progress, people are FINALLY waking up to the fact this country has real problems, and we are no longer the greatest country in the world. That is something all Americans have been indoctrinated to believe since birth, it's not easy for people to reject that.

NFL players kneeling during a national anthem accomplishes exactly nothing. This is just the newest episode of the US's ongoing "resistance" theater.

Fortunately there aren't enough employees to do anything about it.

This whole thread is /r/iamverysmart material.

What happened to this place.

If you're not doing anything wrong, why are you worried about it? How has it affected most of you?

What am I supposed to do about it? Protest? Who's going to pay my mortgage while I'm not at work? Stop using a cell phone and the internet completely? Yeah okay. Write to my congressman? Pointless. I don't like it, but what other options do I have besides accepting it as a shitty, but unavoidable part of life?

This is all a system of corporatocracy anyway. If our government was made of honest working class people who didn't get bribed, this shit wouldn't happen.

The ONLY way to stop this will literally be a world war type event. Something that takes out all communications and tech.

The world we l e in is like a computer infected with malware; the only solution is to factory reset.

We need an independent media in this country, then this would matter.

Nothing short of abolishing the intelligence agencies will do.

It's mostly cause people think well aince I don't have anything to hide why does it matter. My parents said the same thing. It's scary world out there

I don't think people comprehend it.

It's not a matter of "waking up". It's a matter of things becoming so terrible that it's no longer the best course of action for a critical mass of people to continue with daily life, as opposed to spending every day in court, or rioting in the streets.

When government pushes it so far that THAT threshold is crossed, then things will change -- quickly.

But the government knows this. That's why we're spoonfed lots of modern conveniences, cheap vacations, home "ownership" of expensive houses via life-long mortgages, etc.: they'll give us anything to keep us in our place, manning the factories and the desks.

That is, as long as it REALLY keeps us in our place, and doesn't give us TOO much freedom: the freedom to quit our jobs and live comfortably, doing our own thing without the rat-race.

Oliver Stone, he learnt plenty from his meetings with Snowden, said that the NSA store all this data on enormous discs by country, so not just USA. He went further and said they can back date searches. Most of us would not have our emails from ten years ago, Oliver says that the NSA has them and will use them against us if needed.

The NUMBER ONE thing you can do is stop using Facebook. You'll never be able to shake state level surveillance and still carry out a "normal" life in the modern world. But you can sure as hell stop doing the man's job for him and feeding Facebook the means to your own manipulation.

Say it again for the people in the back

Because telling people they are being spied on has no power unless people know they are being spyied on.

I would be the most boring person to monitor... "What's he doing now?" I think he is either eating or having sex...oh never mind he is scratching his butt and picking his nose. Algo bien.

Yeah, the most spectacular thing is how americans still think they are free somehow. Live in a country that spies on you, cops can kill you with total impunity, steal your money out of your pocket if they want to or come to your home and shoot your kids or your dog.

But somehow despite the chemicals in the water, the murderous police, the spying, the sexual repression of what is allowed Americans think they are "Free and Brave".

They even get angry at a few football players who kneel during the anthem, as if the anthem meant anything anymore. Sure they do it for their own dumb reasons but the fact remains, the anthem and the flag are now empty symbols, commercial gimmicks with no value.

I mean, if you're not doing anything bad what do you need to worry about?? Yeah it might be invasive but that's the price it costs to protect against terrorism. The reason nobody really cares or talks about it anymore is because the average person doesn't have to worry about the government watching them because they arnt terrorists or serial killers.

The government and the FBI entice "radicals" into plots more often than foiling real attacks. TSA is a joke too! London is the most heavily surveilled city in the world, and the British can't stop terrorists there. If we wanted to stop Islamic terrorism we would be able to in an instant, but our congress has not the balls to follow the example of countries who have been successful in doing so.

Better than china spying on you right?

Heh. Does it say "Made in USA" on the back of the device?

Is there anything made in usa apart from a few flying killing machines and bombs?

I have some keyboards from UNICOMP that were made there :-)

At least, that's what printed on the outside. I've not looked at the discrete components inside.

Ah....good to know that. Hope walmart can start sourcing within the country now.

In 2001 I heard about a popular girl in school who was drinking underage and then drove and hit a pedestrian and left him for dead. She then used her cell phone to call her friend and asked what to do. They decided she should smash her own window out and drop it off in a shitty part of town to make it look like her car was stolen.

Rumor has it that once she reported the car stolen and the cops found it suspicious then they listened to her phone conversation and that incriminated her.

If this was true or not. I believed it 16 years ago. I have always thought cell phones = people listening.

The US government never said that.

Why exactly are you claiming that they did?

I feel like all of your privacy violations are occurring when you communicate using the governments infrastructure. Our expectation of privacy when using technology is absurd.

Source for 95% of people saying "oh ok"?

Donations to the EFF and ACLU went up. Congress members got a ton of emails. They have fought court cases.

The NSA and similar agencies do have slightly more hoops to jump through.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/how-the-nsa-spying-programs-have-changed-since-snowden/

I do wish people did more though. Seems like a lot of people just bought a VPN and that was it.

see:

https://www.eff.org/nsa-spying

https://www.aclu.org/other/nsa-spying-americans-illegal

I didnt believe we would wake up until cryptocurrencies came along. Sounds crazy but those things have to potential to change everything.

People are afraid to speak out about things like that. People (like our president and his followers) want people fired for protesting about police brutality and racism. Imagine what would happen to protest against this.

Barry's popularity was meant to soften the blow. Thank god for Wikileaks.

The other 5% went REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. So what's your point.

Motherf*cking sheeple and zombies.

It's a frog boil

What is this referring to?

I hate when I tell people about this and their response was "I'm not doing anything bad" - to which I'm thinking "That's your opinion, man" cause you never know who comes into power next and all of the sudden your normal views get you locked up in a Gulag

and it doesn't even help them stop terrorism!!!

Didn't you know?

Shite's been going on since 2001.

Just act like you know.

Before then, the Patriot Act just made it legal.

The reason I don't have a problem with this is it only affects you if you commit felonies. But If people really wanted to stop this they would have to sacrifice their use of the internet, which nobody is willing to do. To induce change, there must be equal sacrifice

I think they officially let us know because people were freely sharing delicate stuff against the government but they were so many nothing could be done, but now people will think twice before calling a cousin to ask him if he saw "Loose Change" documentary or about the corruption he sees at his job

Exactly. Whereas the reality is no one cares about your distrust. You can communicate that shit all day every day. It's the moment you stop that they get worried. Stay safe Stay surveilled.

Even if swarms of people spoke out in unified opposition of this, what would they do? Do you think the government is just going to stop? Believe me, it makes me unhappy too. However, hoping for some sort of change in legislation or practice will never ever happen with how things are going now.

You don't need to oppose it. You just need to stop using the stuff that gives them the information. Easy.

its for the safety of the children

To be fair, have you made your own communication network? Or, are you using theirs? All that is happening is the person you trust to pass your secret messages to your friends is not trustworthy and wants to know your secrets.

Just stop giving your secrets to someone you don't trust! In other words, stop making public shit you want to stay private.

But when Donald Trump says he was wiretapped, the media screams that he's a conspiracy theorist. You think they're monitoring everyone in the country except Donald Trump?

People just say: I have nothing to hide...

Well, these problems, what are to be done about them?

What do you want people to do? Force people to "close" it down? Maybe make it illegal?

Probably 90% of what the CIA does is illegal and always has been. You can shut down the CIA, but its functions just get dispersed further behind the curtain than it already is. There's no way to abolish these measures except one way, and it's a way no liberal, or democrat and most republicans are going to agree upon: shrinking government and choking their resources.

If you begin doing this, you begin cutting programs so many weak people rely upon to exist. Almost all welfare programs from child to adult, planned parenthoods, WIC, minority programs... all of these things equate to thousands and thousands of programs that would have to be taken down with the CIA to starve the big bureaucracy.

And in order to do this, it's going to require a revolution on the scale of the civil war but with modern weapons, and that requires unity in a revolution. But with so many "victims" out there using government programs as a lifeline, a crutch, you will never find that unity.

People are having their attention misdirected towards wealth inequality and racial identity victim politics to ever form a cohesive idea of the true problems.

The majority of people want bigger government but less government meddling. For whatever reason, they can't identify how one comes with the other (unavoidably).

So how do you get all of these sick and helpless people to recognize that their path to power comes not from the talking sticks who represent their parties and freebies, but from within themselves?

It would be BETTER that way.

That would lead people (and companies) to look for technological solutions (PGP, Tor, etc), instead of relying on policy.

They probably have nothing to hide.

cattle in a barn is what we have allowed our existence to become.

Shiiiiiit better than that. Surveillance is marketed as a feature and people pay a premium for it.

OnStar, Smartphones, computers, google home and fucking smart TVs. All that shit is real time surveillance and biometric data collection sold as convenience. Every keystroke, conversation, location and fingerprint is logged somewhere, by someone, from every device you own. Naive to think they can't, gullible to think they wouldn't.

Maybe I'm cynical, but it's hard to see a line between corporations and governments. Smartphones and social media are the intelligence communities wet dream. People bring multiple microphones and high definition cameras with them everywhere they go. They control your opinion through astroturfing and decide what you see through upvotes and likes. Naive to think they wouldn't, gullible to think they aren't.

But hey, what're you gonna do tho?

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy ™

What are we to do?

The government monitors my shit. Okay. I'm still one dude. I VPN when I'm doing things I don't want people to know about. Other than that what is available to me? It's not like there's a mass movement in the street at this particular moment.

Philosophy was removed from public school curriculum many years ago. Critical thinking is rare these days.

It's been like this since obamas second term really. Remember Jade helm?

Has it ever been different? As usual, Aldous Huxley knew the score...

You aren't wrong, but that just made them easier to crush by the system I described. There was so much wrong with the final and political system that it was hard to get a central message. And, unlike AstroTurfed decentralized movements like #BlackLivesMatter, #OccupyWallStreet doesn't appear to have had billionaires funding it from its inception.

For what it's worth, spinning it back to their organizational failures is exactly the type of technique that submarined them. Who wants to go out and support an organization that everyone knows is hemorrhaging incompetency?

In other words, you bought into the fake image the media sold you and thus helped disarm the movement by not thinking it was a real thing that had any chance. Congratulations. You're part of the problem.

That's not the point. We have a right to privacy

That's assuming evil intent. I don't think a government would be like that with the info. It definitely depends on who's deciding what's right and wrong though

Cool, send me a recording of every phone call you've made in 2017, then. Also go ahead and forward me all your texts. Thanks.

The only problem with this argument, is that the government define what "doing anything wrong," means; and in a totalitarian scenario, continually reducing the number of legal actions that people can take, is what they spend most of their time doing.

If we let things go to the point where people start making the response you are here, then that in itself is a warning sign; because if you actually cared about your own freedom, which people in more truly free societies are educated to do, then you wouldn't make that response to begin with.

Your argument is one that I would expect from someone who has already attempted to resign themselves and accept the fact that they are living in a cage.

People can barely form sentences these days when goaded in real life. You ever seen an political argument between anyone that wasn't just them bullshitting about whatever they think they know about, trying to explain things with only the extremely superficial understanding that they really have of the subject.

What good has 'waking up' done you? There isn't anything that most people can do, even if they devoted their lives to fighting TPTB. Not smart enough to take them down by being clever, not rich enough to play their own game, not charismatic enough to rally people against them. There isn't anything to be done.

If you're born without any legs, it doesn't do you any good to spend your life fighting against that cosmic injustice. You're better served just trying to find what pleasure you can, when you can...

Was going to say essentially this ☝️

Prove it.

Even sidestepping the fact that people have a right to privacy regardless, "do[ing] anything wrong" is a very broad category. To have nothing to worry about, you have to not only avoid anything illegal, but also avoid anything that may be misinterpreted or may become illegal. Further, it's not only illegal acts that have the potential to be damaging - say you have political aspirations. Would you really want the incumbent to have a complete record of everything dumb/embarrassing you did e.g. as a teenager? You may not think you've done anything wrong, but a well-timed leak to the media could sink you regardless.

My point being philosophy is no longer needed in a middle school or high-school. There are more relevant courses for kids to take that can actually be beneficial in their lives. Take philosophy in college and pretend like you understand everything about life if you truly want. Writing and rhetoric courses teach you plenty about questioning biases and examining different point of views.

CIA government think tank is creating the flat earth theories to distract and discredit us?

https://www.reddit.com/r/nottheonion/comments/72jb0j/rapper_bob_has_started_a_gofundme_campaign_to/

Or are there actually morons out there?

I'm agreeing it was an inside job is a real conspiricy. Discussing consirpricy's validity is well needed because if you just believe and run with every conspiricy you're just a nut job, not getting anywhere. but if you give an analytical eye to each theory and don't believe it all, then you're following the rules a conspiracy theorist should be following. Question everything right?

It's not my personal morality that's determining what I'm okay with, it's the events transpiring. Searching me is not actively harming whereas telling me not to speak is. They're different scenarios

Not my problem you enjoy having your head up your ass. Take care, wise up.

I did a while back. You would think those links would be well received by the community, but it got like 7 upvotes I think. It was initially downvoted to 25 percent, so the only way I can get the word out is by posting it in a comment.

I wonder where polio went.