Great post. Please update if you get any more info

It's almost like when automatic gunfire erupts in the middle of the night in an urban area where there are thousands of people milling about things can get confusing. This is why the police do an investigation and don't just take everything they heard in the moment as fact.

Shit post buddy. Your sarcasm is that of a eleven year old child.

Right, but the narrative is a nice and neatly laid out hours after the event. Clearly not enough time for a "proper investigation".

People that will buy the MSM narrative anyway want it both ways, lol. What they REALLY want is authority to tell them what to think.

Tell people what to think? You mean provide information and let people decide for themselves? Where do you get your information from? Redditors or Twitter accounts?

You need Noam.

Some Chomsky. Lol I like some of what he has to say.

Yeah. Laid out by the media. So if you want to say that what this post is is just the other side of the same coin then that totally validates my point.

When it involves a single shooter staying in one location, it's not that difficult. While the event is happening and they don't know if there's multiple perpetrators or not, it's a lot more confusing.

what do you expect the media to do though? just sit there saying sorry we cant report on the situation yet because the investigation hasnt been concluded. they are for entertainment. Thus they must entertain. Unfortunately that has become the primary focus of news, and not covering truthful information.

yes i believe the media shapes narratives and works with the government about mis and dis information. But I am not sure I understand what you mean about this neatly laid out narrative.

If there's no narrative, people flip their shit pretty quickly

I live here too. Whole thing stinks. It doesn't add up.

You and OP should get together and dick dock.

Did you just assume someone's penis preference? dude.

And this is proof of this thread being shilled and slid by shit posters and distractors.

I deleted nothing. Ask a mod.

/\ Rethink your 'awesome' job for the best of our mankind, bitch. THINK. You are being a pawn ... a part of the worse that exist in earth..

That was kind of funny

Great post.

A bunch of people are saying that there was only one gun but the echo of the sound bouncing off the buildings made it sound like there was multiple shooters but I don't believe that narrative. There's clearly two different caliber weapons being fired.

Also, it was said that the two windows were in the same room in one of the hotels "Vista suites". I don't understand the reasoning if you are the only one shooting unless it's to draw attention away from the window you're in if you were expecting to be met with sniper fire as a diversion.

There was also a video of a guy yelling around that they weren't real gunshots, but nothing else I've found has supported that argument.

Multiple full auto weapons can be heard overlapping each other when fired on video

Where do you hear this?

When supersonic rounds are being shot around you, if they go past you, you will hear the supersonic crack/whizz of the round first and then if you are within close enough range of the shooter, you hear the sound of the rifle firing. You hear 2 sounds for every round if close enough.

http://library.la84.org/SportsLibrary/Outing/Volume_65/outLXV05/outLXV05c.pdf

At considerable range two distinct reports are audible to the person by whom the bullet is passing. At 700 yards the sound may be described phonetically as "PACK-punk." The first sound comes about ¾ second ahead of the latter in the case of the United States army rifle, the New Springfield. The velocity of this rifle is 2,700 feet per second at the muzzle. The first sound is that of the bullet passing through the air. It is like nothing so much as a long and very violently cracked blacksnake whip. The second sound comes about ¾ second later. It is dead, heavy, and is more like a thud than the "crack" of a rifle. This is the noise of the rifle itself, the only sound one hears if standing at the firing point. In a continued fire, the noise of the rifle is never heard, the crash of the passing bullets drowning the sound of far away rifles. The difference in the time of the two sounds is because the bullet travels much faster than sound. Noise progresses at the rate of about 1,100 feet per second. The Springfield bullet takes but 1.10 seconds to travel 700 yards, a mean speed therefore of 1,900 feet per second. The bullet is therefore quite a bit ahead of the rifle sound at all ranges until the falling off in bullet speed allows the steadily traveling rifle report to catch up. This happens at about 1,700 yards, but it is doubtful if the sound of the rifle would be heard at this distance save under favorable conditions.

This.

This is fact. Afghan combat vet here. The rounds themselves create mini sonic booms described as crack and pops, much like fireworks, that change pitch and intensity the closer they get to you.

The Doppler Effect.

Exactly.

With those people who most likely have never experienced incoming fire, it's confusing the first time. Add the confusion coupled with the eventual realization of what's happening, absolute nightmare.

What's got me wondering, is why. There's always a why. Ideological, religious, political, money, mental instability, or any number of things I haven't thought of.

After all the folks that did a pretty damn good job of trying to kill me in the 'Stan, I at least understood why. I don't fault them for that. It is what it is.

This though just doesn't make sense to me. There's no "why". At least not yet.

trying to kill me in the 'Stan, I at least understood why. I don't fault them for that. It is what it is.

I like your attitude.

As for the why...IF it is the guy they say, could be many reasons including gambling debt anger, cultural anger, dementia, or pharmaceutical side effects. It happens. Also his dad was a convicted bank robber so i wouldn't discount organic genetic reasons.

Then again, could be a false flag operation, so...who the hell knows. Im waiting for the video tape of him coming in and out of the hotel and room 20 times to move guns and ammo.

Or they have an idea as to why and they don't want us to know

Combine this with the fact that the strip is basically a manmade canyon where something as loud as a gun is going to echo, and there are your reports of multiple gunshot sounds

The strip is basically a manmade canyon. I was wondering if echoes played any role in the reports of multiple guns going off at the same time

And if you watch and listen, you can clearly hear the two sounds starting and stopping at almost the same time. That would take a lot of fucking coordination to pull that off and it seems more implausible that there'd be 2 shooters with that coordination than of a deep state cover up. I don't even know how you would pull that off with the adrenaline and loudness of everything going on.

There is video thats filmed from a Tropicana room overlooking Las Vegas blv. The Assault Rifle sounds like it is right there (aka; another shooter) plus the police scanners quoting multiple shooters and victims reportedly at NyNy. I think the size and distance between hotels on the south end of the strip is worth taking seriously.

I don't think I have seen it, I can't find it either. Can you link me?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpsqirFRdTo 9:17

Seriously? The shots are clearly in the distance. Please stop talking about stuff you clearly have zero experience with.

Suspect was fully accurate firing from 320 feet up across a street from a casino

When there's hundreds of fish in a barrel, you don't aim for a specific one.
You think he was aiming for specific individuals, similar to celebrity lookalikes they did in the "Dawn of the Dead" remake?

Yeah there are simple explanations for every one of his "inconsistencies". That's even before you apply normal crisis reporting confusions.

What if a terrorist group was staying on that same floor and got into this guys room. Did the shooting and staged the room as a suicide and fled?

Has to be at least a 50/50 chance that this is as true as anything else.

Agreed. At this point, nothing about this shooting makes sense.

Are you sure just about everything makes since. Pissed off dude decides to kill people. Not the first time it's happened right?

No, the meticulous planning doesn't make sense for someone who just "snapped" - you don't cause the worst mass shooting in US history with no apparent motive. This guy was not political nor was he religious, really bizarre for a tragedy with this many casualties.

I'm not so sure it was meticulously planned. If a guy who has been buying guns for years just snaps that doesn't mean that he was pre-planning snapping. I could be wrong. I just don't want to confuse opportunity with meticulous planning. I'm not ready to make that leap yet.

This guy was not political nor was he religious

I'm not so sure about this. I don't think this info is in the public yet but it might still exist. 62 year olds don't maintain the internet presence younger people think is common. I think we will have to wait for his family to be interviewed before we will know that.

I say meticulously is planned bc he booked the perfect room, was in it for days, and shot out as the festival was closing. Also the either illegally obtained or modified guns to create the fully automatic gunfire.

Also - regarding the motivations - I'm getting it from his brother who gave an interview and said he wasn't political or religious, also that he wasn't super into guns despite having hunting licenses. Honestly the seeming lack of motivation freaks me out more than anything.

https://www.google.com/amp/nypost.com/2017/10/02/suspected-las-vegas-shooters-brother-is-dumbfounded/amp/

I see what your saying. I agree the room was very good for his intentions. I'm not sure if thats luck or planning since if he was higher he could of been more effective. The festival I think was opportunity not planning but I could be wrong. So far just my opinion. I'm going to wait to form a full opinion of his motivation after some time goes by. I would like just a little more then what his brother said about his views.

The body count is just a function of his plan/location and arsenal. Unfortunately it’s not that hard to imagine someone with an issue or life reversal saying “screw it” and using it as an opportunity to unload their arsenal in a sick (but dramatic, and intense) fashion.

I would say more like 10/90. To many things wrong with this idea. All the cameras in the hallways. the guy had 19 something guns with him I beat those all are tracked right back to him. FBI will have the names of everyone else who had a room and they will investigate if anything looks wrong at all.

there would be surveillance from the hotel they were in.

It's a theory worth entertaining but the hallway outside his room is the absolute first thing they'd be watching in security footage. I think this would be public knowledge by now if true.

Would it though? They can tell us anything they want. They like to pick a narrative and conveniently find whatever back up evidence they need later.

If this were actually the case (possible, not likely) but perhaps the authorities would want to make the "terrorists" think that they think the patsy did it. That way the "terrorists" relax and slip up and they catch them.

Stuff like that is traditionally released to the public.

This morning; I was assuming I would be watching footage like that well into next morning.

But...

were all stuck empty handed and confused.

Ill agree with you if more than a day goes by before saying they arent releasing it. This stuff takes time, only time ive ever seen footage like this in the past is when the suspect is still loose and they are searching for them.

They found an additional 18 more guns at the mans house along with ammonia nitrate in his vehicle.

I don't think they would of had time to flee. Also the hallways are all have cameras in them.

so does and did the Pentagon, we are still waiting for the 80 or so confiscated videos from 9/11.

Video tape from the Pentagon seems a little different then this to me. Lots of moving parts here. (I don't believe a plan was crashed in to the pentagon either.) I'm just not convinced this could of been set up like this person suggest. To many people watching those cameras in the casino to tap all of them. If it is a false flag it was done much better then 9/11

thing with that is that's kinda the opposite of terrorist behavior. they generally want the attention and want the world to know what they've done, they wouldn't want some stiff old white american to get all the credit -- I know, they did claim it, but they just do that with every act of violence.

Okay, now about the shots fired after he was confirmed dead? Or his other points?

No shots fired after his was confirmed dead where did you get that info? Sources please.

He is sourcing his police scanner. But how about the different timelines that were being reported about his death. Earlier it was 20-30 minutes and now its up to 72 minutes. 72 minutes, wtf????

Omg shit is chaotic and information is sometimes unreliable when a tragedy like this happens!!!

Must be a CONSPIRACY.

There's no proof of that.

Only noncredible 'anecdotes' from random conspiritards.

His source for shots being fired after the suspect was confirmed dead is his scanner. That claim is easily nullified by anyone who has the time to spare. There are hundreds of uploads of the police scanner audio from that night all over youtube. I've listened to it, you can too.

If he really heard that, he could go to any of those videos and link us directly to the spot. So maybe you could ask him why he didn't just do that in the first place? I think we already know the answer.

Ok I give you the first 30 round magazine as "fish in a barrel" but once people start to scatter it would get tougher. These are nearly 300 yd shots.

1. Every 30 rounds or so you have to stop, drop your mag, reinsert mag, rack the weapon and then reaquire targets. To fire 600 rounds he has to do this 20 times. If he had an AR I am sure he had a jam or 2.

2. Even dropping the spent weapon and grabbing another loaded one still takes time and causes you to reaquire targets that were almost 3 football fields away, at night with all of the extra light of vegas

3. Shooting a full auto weapon is hard. The recoil alone would make these shots nearly impossible. Even shooting in bursts or in semi auto mode. Trained military could prob do it with difficulty. Joe Blow 64 year old psychopath? Nope. Why do you think military snipers shoot bolt action rifles???

4. If this untrained psycho got 600 hits from 300 yds away at night, how many shots would he have had to shoot??? At best he would have hit 1/3, and that is generous. So he needed to shoot the guns 1800 times minimum in what? 20 minutes? 90 rounds a minute, 3 reloads per min. ( which btw is not consistent with reported full auto fire) All while maintaining accuracy from distance with no formal training.

The numbers do not add up.

I think you are inventing the 600 hits thing. 59 are dead and most of the other injured were not struck, but injured in the stampede and confusion.

source?

Common sense?

Agreed. 525 people were not shot.

One hospital reported 124 people with gunshot wounds.

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2017/10/02/555044797/las-vegas-hospitals-call-for-back-up-to-handle-hundreds-of-shooting-victims

Yes, trampling’s in mass shootings like this cause almost most of the damage, they’re had been little kids, females and smaller males who got trampled hard if not killed.

i agree man this comment makes a lot of sense

We won't know much about the weapons till they are released but a lot of your points seem to be misinformed.

Say this was an AR, you can convert it to accept belts belts of ammo or get a couple 100 round mags. This would give you plenty of ammo without having to reload as much. Either way, there were a lot of breaks in fire so it could have been jams or him reloading, the world may never know.

I am not convinced it was a straight forward automatic. It was more than likely a trigger crank or some sort of a bump stock. It's hard to tell due to all the low quality audio attached to the videos. There's also a lot of paperwork behind getting a full auto. Again, we will just have to wait and see.

If you think that just because he is old he can't shoot then you are out of your mind. Also, those people were cramped together and it's very much possible for rounds to pierce multiple people. He had all the money in the world to buy whatever rounds he was wanted too.

It was more than likely a trigger crank or some sort of a bump stock.

I saw that crank video someone else posted. The way that guy was shooting the crank, he could only hold it without aiming, just pointing. And he was a LOT closer to that little target and most important, straight shooting. Imagine trying to steady that rifle while aiming down, spraying and cranking at the same time.

For a really long long time. I want to see autopsy photos to see if his shoulders were damaged from all that recoil.

There were frequent breaks in the shooting and if he had a good stand/setup he wouldn't have to worry about recoil much. He could focus more on aiming. Also, .223 isn't going to do too much to you in the way of bruising.

There was some report that the room looked like a "snipers nest" and had two tripods. If true, it's not unreasonable for him to be able to crank and point.

low quality audio attached to the videos.

and low quality video , all very circa 1990.

Partially due to multiple people using snapchat. It's smart due to the fact of auto uploading but shit compared to the actual quality of the content.

As someone who loves shooting guns, the distance from the hotel to the crowd is not even remotely unreasonable to hit especially with the spray that was going on. My iron sight AR can hit 100 yards no problem and the recoil is almost negligible. If I bump stocked it with 100 round drums aiming wouldn't even be a priority into a crowd that size. My issue is the lack of motive and information pertaining to the gunman along with audio clips sounding like 2 guns at once. I could be wrong but with the quality of those clips it sounds nothing like an echo overlaying actual fire

If you are watching recordings from the shooting end you are likely hearing the cracks of bullets whizzing by, giving you that echo effect.

This clip you can hear one gun clear as day and can tell it is a hand crank or something similar.

https://mobile.twitter.com/abbytheodros/status/914735456943607808/video/1

Wow I haven’t seen this one yet. That definitely doesn’t sound like natural automatic rifle fire

Keep spreading it! The more the public knows the better off we are.

Nope, it sounds like a trigger crank like /u/thetrooper424 mentioned.

Check this out. Sound is identical. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBGgnhQVdWY

We know nothing of this individual. No security footage, no record, nothing. I did read he had a hunting permit in Alaska, that was reported heavily earlier in the day but not so much now. I also thought it sounds like two guns at one point. So many things are weird, the list goes on.

The 600 injuries were not all from the shooter, that number includes people hurt in the crush of the evacuation.

Every 30 rounds or so you have to stop

There are sixty round drums for AR rifles?

If he had an AR I am sure he had a jam or 2.

Why do you think that?

We’re talking about a crowd of 22,000 people. You’re vastly overestimating just how much he had to aim to hit people.

he wasnt untrained. unless they werent him, there are a bunch of videos on youtube of him shooting targets and he looks pretty decent. not sure however if it was confirmed to be him or not.

Watch an learn a bit. Reliable, and not difficult on full auto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xtkVYsIzSc (yes it's suppressed(longer discussion on recoil), but it's still a 60+ yr old man on full auto)

"Ok I give you the first 30 round magazine as "fish in a barrel" but once people start to scatter it would get tougher. These are nearly 300 yd shots."

Without seeing enough footage, any number of things could have happened. People may have froze and laid down, people could have tripped/fallen and been trampled, and exit points could have been restricted..

"Every 30 rounds or so you have to stop, drop your mag, reinsert mag, rack the weapon and then reaquire targets. To fire 600 rounds he has to do this 20 times. If he had an AR I am sure he had a jam or 2."

Ak-47's have 75(ish) drum mags, many are reliable. Ar-15's have 60 round magpul drums and 60 round surefire mag, the magpul drums are very reliable in my experience. If they were standard 30(or even 40's) they are often taped together and you can change the mag is a couple seconds. Regarding jamming, depends on the rifle, ammo quality and how clean/what type of lube he used. Ar-15's aren't jam prone unless it's a pos rifle.

" Even dropping the spent weapon and grabbing another loaded one still takes time and causes you to reaquire targets that were almost 3 football fields away, at night with all of the extra light of vegas"

Magnification, a 1-4 or 3-9 would make this relatively easy if your not going for precision(head shots, etc) heck even with irons I can hit a man size gong at 300 yards. Maybe he had a table in front of the window(or dragged a dresser) and used it as a make-shift rifle bench.

300 yards, really isn't all that difficult with a rifle, especially one with a good optic. My Gf was able to hit 16"gongs at 200 yards on her first time shooting my Ar-15.

"Shooting a full auto weapon is hard. The recoil alone would make these shots nearly impossible. Even shooting in bursts or in semi auto mode. Trained military could prob do it with difficulty. Joe Blow 64 year old psychopath? Nope. Why do you think military snipers shoot bolt action rifles???

Depends on the weapon, an AK-47 is a mofo on full auto, an Ar-15 is quite easy. Military snipers use bolt actions because they are shooting for precision(Ie head, or heart), and also distances further than 300 yards. I do agree that full auto is very difficult to shoot accurately, especially at such distances, but if your just dumping mags into a crowd, your bound to hit something.

" If this untrained psycho got 600 hits from 300 yds away at night, how many shots would he have had to shoot??? At best he would have hit 1/3, and that is generous. So he needed to shoot the guns 1800 times minimum in what? 20 minutes? 90 rounds a minute, 3 reloads per min. ( which btw is not consistent with reported full auto fire) All while maintaining accuracy from distance with no formal training."

8(30) rnd mags=240 rounds in 1 minute(start 2:13) he continues to fire 800+ rounds from one gun in full auto without malfunction until the gun explodes at the end. So if he had several Ar's easily done. He fired 830 rounds in 6 minutes from 1 gun. At the rate he fired( 8 mags in 6 minutes) until the gun exploded he could have shot 2700+ rounds in 20 minutes, possible more if he was switching guns, as they wouldn't be so hot and therefore easier to handle.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSizVpfqFtw

"The numbers do not add up."

It's isn't clear if The 500-ish wounded were gun shot related. Many of those could have been people who tripped, were trampled etc.. We don't know the cause or extent of their injuries.

He is reported to have had 10 guns in there with him. If all were loaded ready to go he could have easily fired off enough rounds

Wonder why so many guns. I could see having 2 backup pistols, and 2 or 3 rifles- say 2 full auto, and 1 with a scope. But why 10? Switching rifles wouldn't be faster than reloading. 10 guns is a lot even for 2 people to use in an attack.

I agree with all of what you said, the only thing I don't understand is why we hear the string of fire which is constant for 100+ rounds. We should be hearing gaps in that when he is reloading.

I haven't watched/heard enough to confidently speak at lengths.

However, If you've got $$$ There are drum magazines that hold 100 and even 150 rounds(AR-15 ARMATAC 150 ROUND SAW MAG DRUM MAGAZINE .223 5.56)

And even more $$$$$ Could also be a belt fed Ar-15 conversion

Ludicrous $$$$$$ an original belt fed designed M249 Saw.

Lastly, could be more than 1 shooter.

Yep, completely agree. I guess we'll have to wait and see what they say about it. Should be interesting.

1. No, you don't. It's one button to drop mag, insert mag, one button to chamber your first round. It's unlikely he'd have a jam on a clean AR that hasn't been exposed to dirt.

2. Not much time and it doesn't take much to reacquire a target from 300 yards (in fact, in order for you to qualify in basic training, you have to hit multiple targets at center mass with a shitty M16/M4 and iron sights).

3. Shooting 5.56 isn't difficult, there's almost no recoil. Shooting a SAW is probably even easier due to having a bipod. Trained military can do it easily. Military snipers shoot bolt action for long distance, highly accurate shots. Most shoot star-chamber semi automatic long barrel rifles, like the SR25 or Mk14.

4. 5.56 is a fast round, a single round can go through multiple targets.

There were thousands of people there, and if you watch the videos it took them a while to really start breaking apart. They stayed low and grouped together for a minute or so as they didn't understand what was happening.

Also he had 10 weapons in his room. If all are loaded and ready to go he can fire of a lot of rounds before reloading.

Bet you feel like a bit of a crazy idiot once the videos are out and the crowd doesn't even start reacting untill the 4th entire mag had been emptied into them

Nope. I dont believe this was the work of just one guy. Especially not that guy

why though, its not even speculation its been proved. there are videos from multiple angles showing this to be the case

This may be a bit of a morbid question, but when the bullet travels that far to hit a target, how much does it slow down?

Because the people were standing very close to each other in a small proximity, could the bullets travel through victims. So hitting two people with 1 bullet? I know its possible but is it likely when the shooter is that far away?

It took a considerable amount of time for the people there to really start running. Everyone was confused and didn't know where the fire was coming from.

I was watching vids of when it started. He went through his first 3 mags without the crowd even really reacting at all. As it continued, most of the people were just getting down on the ground, rather than running.

If he was on the 32nd floor raining hell on people with auto-rifles,

"It took a considerable amount of time for the people there to really start running. Everyone was confused and didn't know where the fire was coming from"=

-would seem bizarre.

People were laying flat on the ground; hundreds if not thousands.

Why were they so fortunate of not at least taking some shots when they are directly in line sight of the 32nd floor window?

They said on the news he hit 600 out of 6000 shots fired.

He wasn't shooting mags, but likely drums and then switching weapons to alternate when they got hot. Tons of people sat around like a bunch of idiots (seriously people were having rounds hit near them and tried to keep their beer from spilling).

He didn't have targets, he had areas he simply sprayed, you can tell this from various videos of how the rounds start one location and then spray into another.

There were 22,000 people there, shooting for 20 mins when sat around, there was no aiming needed.

Edit #1: As of 9:13pm, at least 59 dead, 527+ injured.

That does not add up either.

Dude watch the videos, it happens exactly like that... except the scattering is not really there. Peopel are tryiing to scatter but the whole time there are still areas where there are seas of people, and he just fires off rounds fully auto then takes a while in between reloading, then just keeps going again. Also I'm not sure if he had a bunch of guns lined up or what, but there definitely seems to be a lot more than 30 shots per volley, so either the reports on the magazine size are wrong or he was rotating through guns one by one then reloading.

You realize it took several minutes for people to scatter right? Almost everyone immediately stopped and got on the ground without realizing he was firing from above. Like the other dude said, fish in a barrel.

but once people start to scatter it would get tougher. These are nearly 300 yd shots.

How quick to you think a giant crowd of people in a closed-in area are going to disperse? Theyll going to be running every which way, tripping over, trampling each other in abject chaos. The fish are not going to be getting out of the metaphorical barrel any time remotely fast.

Dude the people weren't acting for minutes because most of them didn't realize they were being shot at. He was able to empty multiple magazines into the full bowl.

I wonder if shooters in this situation have the shakes or are calmer than if you were defending yourself?

Like, never, "I'm faltering because I'm not sure this was right."

There is no proof stating all 500 injuries were incurred from bullets. I am truly confident there were tons of people that sustained injuries from getting trampled, running into things, or other objects/people (bottles?). Imagine tripping over and landing on shattered bottles or two? Even more so, especially considering a large number of attendees were likely intoxicated.

There was also a significant amount of shrapnel as mentioned by accounts of witnesses at the event.

I thought the issue was everyone laid down on the ground, and that what caused the high number of victims? He did not need to aim, because in the videos you see people laying flat on the ground.

Come you back to Mandalay, Where the old Flotilla lay

redd.it/73dizb

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/30/boris-johnson-caught-on-camera-reciting-kipling-in-myanmar-temple

https://streamable.com/adjlq

Beard doesn't match.

Although, I would like to see what his sign reads.

Interesting choice of attire.

He's around the right age, and has a white beard, but there are probably a few hundred thousand people in the country that fit that description.

What does his sign say?

Make new post. Weird stuff.

Make! You are wellcome

I'm terrified to make any assumptions on what It can actually mean

Mandalay is a place in myanmar. He was just reciting an ill advised poem about the place he was visiting.

Jesus, that's a dick move.

What do you mean!

whoa, fuckin' weird

Victims found in New York New York, Mandalay Bay, Route 91, and Aria but shots fired only at Mandalay Bay

What's the issue with this? It's pretty simple:

People wounded at Mandalay Bay ran away to the other locations to avoid being shot again.

Given the way all this happened and he didn't have to aim, do we know that he wasn't firing two guns at once? Like, if you're going to do something this grand like from a movie, it seems plausible to me given that the had 19 guns and two hands.

As for the two windows, couldn't he have had two guns set up on tripods in case something happened to one or to run to the other when out of ammo? Or maybe he had further plans that he didn't get to?

We don't know.

He anticipated the crowd moving? Why shoot at an empty area? Break a window and start shooting some more, maybe he had guns and ammo caches staged at a few different windows.

Or one window was a decoy window just in case there was a helicopter they’d be confused as to which one to look at first.

they have FLIR on helicopters, no guess work required.

forward looking Infra red camera system.

plate glass is a mirror in medium wave IR can't see through windows well.

Not everyone knows this and it's possible the highly reflective windows Interfere with it

The 2 guns theroy to me is dumb. All videos only have the sound of 1 gun being fired at a time. The pause in between is comparably to reloading. Even when you have multiple guns you will fire one tell empty then pick up and fire the other. Comparison of the video's doesn't suggest 2 gunmen or using multiple guns at once.

Not to mention possible echoes that can create the illusion of multiple guns

"When police stormed his room shortly before midnight, Mr. Paddock lay dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He left behind 23 guns in the hotel room, including two rifles mounted on tripods..."

Shooting coming from two separate windows may have made people think there was two separate shooting locations. Perhaps why units were reporting shots coming from "middle of 29th floor" on scanner?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.amp.html

"When police stormed his room shortly before midnight, Mr. Paddock lay dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He left behind 23 guns in the hotel room, including two rifles mounted on tripods..."

Shooting coming from two separate windows may have made people think there was two separate shooting locations. Perhaps why units were reporting shots coming from "middle of 29th floor" on scanner?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.amp.html

"When police stormed his room shortly before midnight, Mr. Paddock lay dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He left behind 23 guns in the hotel room, including two rifles mounted on tripods..."

Shooting coming from two separate windows may have made people think there was two separate shooting locations. Perhaps why units were reporting shots coming from "middle of 29th floor" on scanner?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.amp.html

"When police stormed his room shortly before midnight, Mr. Paddock lay dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He left behind 23 guns in the hotel room, including two rifles mounted on tripods..."

Shooting coming from two separate windows may have made people think there was two separate shooting locations. Perhaps why units were reporting shots coming from "middle of 29th floor" on scanner?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.amp.html

"When police stormed his room shortly before midnight, Mr. Paddock lay dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He left behind 23 guns in the hotel room, including two rifles mounted on tripods..."

Shooting coming from two separate windows may have made people think there was two separate shooting locations. Perhaps why units were reporting shots coming from "middle of 29th floor" on scanner?

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.amp.html

You need to watch the videos again and listen carefully

Can you link any that have the sound of 2 weapons being fired? The first on released you could hear bad echos and richoceets but when you link them up with the other videos it's pretty clear it's only a single weapon. Also there is not overlap from one weapon running empty and the reload time suggests a single shorter with 1 weapon. If he did use a crank or bump stock he would of needed 2 hands. So IMO and it's just my opioine supported my evidence that it was a single weapon. Now he could of changed guns when he started to over heat it but I think that is different then firing 2 guns at once.

There's also a video of a 4th floor shooter

He either fired multiple guns at once or had extended mags because there were far more than 30 shots being fired in those volleys.

As for the two windows,

Probably filled the first room with gunsmoke and couldnt see or breathe well. Moved to another clear room.

Great point. I didn't even consider that.

Wasnt my idea, someone proposed it further up, but you seemed like a nice person so i relayed the idea to you.

Ive shot guns before as a kid, theyre loud, and put out a lot of smoke depending on propellant type.

Cheers.

I'm not sure if you know this but those hotels are pretty far apart. Just to get to the street from them is a bit of a walk. To make it to NyNy while injured is a pretty big walk. They had to pass Luxor, Excalibur, cross the street and then walk up to Nyny. That is a whole lot of walking or running to do while injured.

Please dont feed the shills.

When the alternative is to be shot again, you run.

Of course. But I doubt u run past two huge resorts and across a street before u stop for help

They recommend you run at least 4 city blocks in a terrorist attack. If anything that is not far enough.

Vegas blocks aren't normal size. Personally, I would seek indoor shelter at the next resort. No way I would run past two HUGE resorts and cross a street only to take shelter in the third.

I live in Las Vegas. The distance from the venue to NYNY is less than a half mile. In Las Vegas at least the city blocks are measured in half miles. Terrorist attacks come in a wide variety. It is best to just keep running the full 2 miles just in case it is a gas attack, they have placed explosives, there are multiple shooters, etc.. It is not surprising at all that people ended up just 2000 ft away.

Google says 1.1 mile....so..u may wanna recheck that.

Not sure how you messed this up but I measured 2145 feet from the center of the venue, which is not the main entrance, that is closer. Also just searching "distance from mandalay bay to new york new york" gives .7 miles. Maybe words aren't working so here are some pictures. Google Search Measured with map

Hi, I'm a bot that links Gyazo images directly to save bandwidth.

Direct link: https://i.gyazo.com/461261d2a648d3fa0aee4d72e04a49fb.png

Imgur mirror: https://i.imgur.com/92Y1UrS.png

^{Sourcev2 | Why? | Creator | leavemealone}

No need to be a smart ass. Obviously it depends on where the venue is..which idk. My only point is that there were closer places to get help. I don't know if anyone was even really found at Nyny. What I do know is a lot of innocent people died. https://www.google.com/search?q=how+far+is+mandalay+bay+from+new+york+new+york+hotel&oq=how&aqs=chrome.0.69i59j69i65j69i57j69i59l2.2527j0j4&client=ms-android-att-us&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#xxri=6

Link to my info since u want to assume I can't read.

I apologize for the rudeness but it angers me when people not only put so little effort into their positions on important issues but also actively undermine the truth with false claims, assumptions, and faulty reasoning.

We are on r/conspiracy. A vast quantity of these conspiracies are due to people not using rational analysis of the problem, jumping to conclusions without adequate evidence, then letting their own confirmation bias block any counter evidence of their assumptions. Your post is questioning the fact that injured people ended up at NYNY as if it were some lie to support a conspiracy due to the incredulity fallacy. Then you used the distance as some sort of justification for this new narrative as evidence that injured people would be unlikely to make it that far. To top it off you just admitted you didn't know were the venue is which demonstrates that no effort was put into your argument.

I just want to people be better, put thought and effort into their positions, and stop foisting their irrational thoughts onto the world. Pipe dream I know but a fight worth doing anyway.

I didn't make my stance clear. My point was that it is was unlikely that someone ended up at nyny. Basically, I feel it was a false report in the midst of the confusion. There is zero doubt in my mind that this event happened. There may be more than meets the eye as to who or how many did it. Having fleed a shooter before...I ran to the closet place. I'm no authority on it tho. Are there official reports about nyny? I didn't mean to imply there was a shooter there. I just didn't find it likely that someone would run that far out in the open with gunfire coming from an unknown location. Closest building seems more likely.

In the aftermath of shootings this place always gets worse and even simple and verifiable facts are lied about. People that were shot in the arm for instance can run a long way on adrenaline alone. Panic causes blind fleeing and irrational actions. Even if there are more rational alternatives that doesn't exclude the possibility that people chose an irrational one regardless. People even choose irrational things regularly in everyday choices with no pressure at all.

As for a more clear answer to whether there were injured at NYNY, yes. Ambulances were dispatched to NYNY. Many still mobile injured people did flee that far before stopping. There was no shooter there. All of the reports of shooters in other areas were attributed to echos and the canyon like buildings on the strip.

Very true. We also don't know if they were brought there by car or what have u. I wasnt convinced there were injured at Nyny and thought people were trying to say there was a gunman there too. People are actually making a big deal that this guy used the valet... Does anyone in Vegas NOT use the valet? Also they are on about him getting the guns inside. .it is very simple to do.

Many of the injuries are from being hit by fleeing vehicles. Probably accounts for the distance.

Nyny is a mile away from Mandalay and that is not including the distance you have to walk to get out if the Mandalay venue and to get into Nyny from the street. Not logical to run that far.

At least one injured person was picked up there. The fact that this boggles your mind is astonishing.

Nothing says the person was shot there or were shot at all. Nothing says they ran there.

Do you find this to be a clue? Do you think those that planned the false flag mistakenly put injured people too far from the scene?

Yes, u run. But do u stay on the street in the open or do u take cover in the closet building away from where the shooting was? Nyny is far from Mandalay. Ur not likely to even make it that far if ur seriously injured.

The injured person at NYNY was run over by a vehicle. Not all of the injuries came from gunshots.

Never said the person found there was shot. I was commenting on if they were injured at the initial scene that Nyny would have been a long way to go for help. No one said how or where this person was injured in the original post. I never said it was a false flag either. I'm certain people were killed and injured. No doubt about that. By whom, how and why? Not sure on that one.

Were they hit by a vehicle or are u assuming? I'm not assuming how they were injured. All im saying is if it happened at Mandalay ...they went a long way to get help

Agreed. Where was the NyNy victim found? I cant find any source that verifies a victim was found in or around NyNy.

Not sure. I saw it talked about here and replied with logistics

People wounded at Mandalay Bay ran away to the other locations to avoid being shot again.

Depending on how much time passed.. that's not easy. Maybe they ran to Luxor, but NYNY is pretty darn far away, especially for someone who is injured.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0932644,-115.1711585,15.92z

Let it boggle your mind then.

No, NY NY is close to MB by Vegas standards.

I do not have an accurate timeline on this, actually, I just remembered.

So all this shit you typed out is made up?

No, that's a very misleading response.

that is not what op implied - not at all.

maybe clean your bong.

Hold on let's just take a brief second to observe this comment of "clean your bong". What the fuck does that even mean? Uh, thanks for the reminder? Shits gonna be sparkly after i rub it down.

Very funny. - made my whole day. Thanks, man.

"I don't actually know if this timeline of events happened. I'm just typing shit up to fit my story."

Did I misread something?

We may have. I am pretty certain he meant that he did not have the timeline in notes or benchmarks on a video, etc, but rather that he simply recalled them from memory as best he could....

Blaclisted News has just linked this -

AUDIO: INITIAL RADIO TRAFFIC DURING THE LAS VEGAS SHOOTING - 50MINS , http://www.blacklistednews.com/Audio%3A_Initial_radio_traffic_during_the_Las_Vegas_shooting_-_50mins/61096/0/38/38/Y/M.html

Vegas resident Uber driver: I concur with everything my fellow resident typed, lots of things not adding up, Wife was on scanner last night to confirm what you heard, she heard. she was working at NY NY.

My question is, we're police conducting a training exercise that day? Not saying police had anything to do with it. Look at dudes work history. If you work on top secret shit your required to pass a security/psych evaluation every 6 months or so. Just saying.

Hotel shooting training 9-30-17

Interesting but not surprising to me but to others yes.

That is the furthest thing from credible Jesus Christ.

Are you a jidf assigned to my account?

Oh yeah you're definitely that important and impactful hahahaha

Enough that sharing army Intel on r Israel got me banned. Enough to connect the link of bibi with Rafael/ imi shuffling weapons and money to Hezbollah and PA... Enough to post the positions of idf in Syria illegally operating under the joint American Israeli task force that eventually a Turkish source used to get the un to get Israel back in the Golan heights. I had the conversation of mossad with Pakistani intel talking about the formation of kurdistan which we see happening today. Bloop I am Jewish and Israel is a country using my people to advance ideology against god for personal reasons. Sooooo

That was some seriously incoherent shit.

No wonder nobody takes you seriously hahaha

Enough that you are here responding :)

I mean I'm just some random bored college student haha

But yeah you just keep rambling your incoherent nonsense.

All training usually has to be completed by end of fiscal year. 9-30-17 is the end of 2017 fiscal year. (I work for government and all our training had to be done or people would get in trouble).

So this is the next fiscal year?

Yes, fiscal year 2018 started Oct 1st.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiscal_year

That's why the health care thing died. They had to do it under reconciliation of the budget bill for 2017. When it moved to 2018 FY it could no longer be done.

I can tell you, from having worked strip security, this is definitely not new. Whoever posted that is purposely baiting. Any hotel shooting consipiracy in Vegas could be "proved" with a recent or active "active shooter training". It's been a thing since at least 2008 when I was working there, and regularly talked about around town where they're having it so casino guests don't freak out when the building is filled with police on the way to training.

It's just a crazy unrelated thing. Like an object exiting a black hole...

Summer 2016 no attacks

Another Summer 2016 again no attacks

Spring 2017 no attacks?

No clear date but article references 1999 and Keller was top Sheriff 1995-2003 No attacks

Bibliography contains references from 2016 for training spring 2016 again no attacks.

If you want more sources, feel free to look them up. Yes, this was a tragedy. Yes, things sound fishy regarding some of the details, but using a casino training guide to say it was planned is like showing a pic of the drive through at McD's and then someone eating a burger.

No you're not.

Yes you are wether you realize or not.

I think this is when police conducted the exercise https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/4337262/armed-cops-las-vegas-cromwell-hotel-eubank-jr-floyd-mayweather-conor-mcgregor/amp/

Thankyou

Interesting. I was outside the Cromwell (and listening to scanner) when that went down. It smelled like a test to me (

Yeah it's suspicious. They say there were no shots fired though and that it was "stuff getting knocked over." How do you mistake gunshots with stuff getting knocked over? I think it was clearly a drill

Nothing that was mentioned. Him being killed and being solo, no motive, no politics, no nothing suddenly at 64 decides : this is the best course of action. It's shady at 'best'. Remember Vegas is the 'elite' playground, billions of investments= motive to control a narrative is all I know.

He wasn't solo, may I direct attention to the second broken out window. A good society motivating conspiracy always consists of at least two.

ALL that is REPORTED. NOT what I believe.

?

Just saying I agree with you. I don't believe shit

I think giving up the 2nd amendment would cause people to give up the first. Which is a bad thing for liberty.

Neither is an acceptable response to this.

I don't agree with ms Clinton. Mental health in this country is truly lacking!

Lol. No you're not. I had a top secret / special compartmentalized information clearance.

The background check is done every 5 years

Special access programs is more stringent yes but even that is not an every 6 months thing

I don't know where you got your information but it's far from the truth

Fart, don't believe you bruh!!

She was at work listening to a police scanner? What does she do?

it's not unheard of: I listen to local EMS scanner all day, boss is a volunteer in local departments, one of my best friends is a dispatcher, it's not unheard of to have a scanner on

It's not common. It more common in small areas where people are connected to safety response services. It is uncommon in Vegas. Thats why I was wondering what his wife does that she would be aloud to listen while at work at the new york new york. No public facing job would allow that like reception or guest services. Maybe in a break room or something? Just looking for more information but also questioning what information is being passed out.

I have a police scanner on my phone and I live in Chicago. It's really simple. Not super uncommon I used to listen to it to sleep somehow very calming.

Yeah thats possible. Maybe they where listening on their phone. Still strikes me as unlikely but that's just a opinion.

When you're that close to a massacre I'm sure the boss was huddled right next to her listening in.

I'm sure they would to. I just wonder what position at the new york new york had a police scanner on. She might of been in security or in the police substations in the casinos.

No, she WAS 20min before lockdown at work... went and got her from work after Uberin people. She was at home all night listening to the scanner...

Sent you a PM.

any new info?

show this guys pm.

It was in regards to me asking for help locating the police scanner audio with some sort of time stamp. I basically asked the same thing to this thread, but had initially only asked OP because he seemed like he was proactively investigating.

Yes. and yes.

+1 , great post

Not a big conspiracy guy but I like to keep my ears open.

https://m.soundcloud.com/alertpage-1/initial-radio-traffic-las-vegasnv

14:00 witnesses say 2 or 3 shooters

18:30 confirmed 2 shooters?

They use the term "shooters" from that point on

34:40 fatigues, black bag, RV.

two different guns firing at the same time

You're hearing an echo that's happening in conjunction with bullets ricocheting.

he never had prior weapon experience

That's incorrect, he owned handguns (at a minimum) prior to the stockpile he began with the heavier guns.

Why did the shooter need to break two different windows in two adjacent rooms at Mandalay Bay to shoot at one target

He didn't have a target, he was literally just spraying into a crowd of people. If you've seen a setup of the room-type, it's a very large room. The windows used both have slightly different angles.

we heard shots fired on the scanner last night after they found the suspect dead.

This happens with so many active shooter situations. Things get incredibly confusing because of how hectic the scenes are. They're overly cautious until it's 100% confirmed that the thread is eliminated.

Suspect was fully accurate firing from 320 feet up across a street from a casino

He was absolutely nowhere near "fully accurate", he was just spraying into a crowd.

I will say the weirdest thing about this is that the guy has not even been pulled over for a traffic violation by the police. He meticulously planned this massacre, from choosing his room to setting up for 3 days. We'll know more if/when a motive is released.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

To anyone who wonders why people are paranoid about false flag attacks

I understand what you're saying, but this is not the same level as that proposed operation.

No but it doesn't have to be to push an agenda

Yeah I get that, but I wouldn't compare trying to start a war with another country to a mass shooting. What's the agenda, gun control?

The LV event looks to be a false flag if there ever was one... Crisis actor(?) "Eric Paddock" asks how his "brother" could have access to those kinds of weapons: https://youtube.com/watch?v=_S6-OCjaQYk

This is the agenda that is being pushed:

Any normal guy is a potential maniac.

The public has realized that ISIS or other extremism is easily avoided by a society being xenophobic, thus no need for getting the state to keep you safe. Case in point: the election of Trump. You avoid the issue of Mexicans being over represented in crime statistics by not having Mexicans over in the first place. No more Boston bombings? Solution: no Muslims. Etc...

By making the boogeyman "a normal guy" the public will instead seek out the state for protection. The goal: disarming and removing the rights of the population. Expect widespread bans on "assault" weapons and implementation of draconian surveillance laws.

You can definitely tell he's being honest, and it just adds to me believing this guy was framed.

Same here. My gut says that. I guess we will see.

Could actually easily be war. Look up in this thread at all of the people saying he was a patsy. What happens if they magically discover that he was a patsy for Islamic Terrorists. Who can use that to his advantage right now? Also looking at it from the other side. 64 year old white man kills people with legally bought guns. Who benefits from that? In terms of the government it could be anything.

I'm actually surprised no one is saying this could easily become a political issue. That's where my money would be.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Mass_shootings_in_the_United_States_by_year

To anyone who wonders about the frequency of mass shootings.

Well damn...

Lil pump oouu

I heard the first noise of the two and immediately thought of the 'snap' a supersonic bullet makes when it's a near miss. Not a huge point but I do think it was the near misses that produced the first noise and then the barrel noise since it's travelling the speed of sound

There's a guy somewhere else in this thread that describes the sound much more thoroughly than I can, I think you guys might be saying something similar.

This thread is getting brigaded pretty hard by comments like this immediately dismissive of critical, conspiratorial thinking.

In a conspiracy board.

Brigaded fucking lol I'm in this sub pretty regularly. It's not dismissive, I actually agreed that it was strange, but there are explanations for things OP listed.

people here are far too quick to call it a real tragedy

all of the facts are not out

i long to live in a country where they don't fucking lie to you about almost every tragedy for the past 30 years. i need proof that it was real, otherwise i call this a false flag. it's too convenient for gun grabbers

What proof would convince you?

bodies, open casket funerals, FOIA responses, etc

I see. You think the entire thing is fake? That would be an impressive operation.

the boston bombing was an impressive pyrotechnic show

the orlando pulse shooting was a pretend massacre

jfk was an elaborate operation

why would this be any more believable?

Wouldn't it be easier to just shoot people? Why make things 1000x harder. Do TPTB have a weak stomach for killing?

during the boston "bombing" they had a large cast of crisis actors and no one was hurt. they used an arsenal of blood packs, already had paraplegics in their cast, and a hard-working costume detail crew. a lot of work, but no one was hurt. it's easier to just hurt them, but less moral

but back on vegas: i did recently see a pic of some of the bodies (from a distance). looked fairly believable

at this point for me it's a matter of figuring out who was actually responsible

Although to kill people you just need 1 or 2 immoral people. To fake a mass murder you needs 100's or 1000's of immoral people.

ah, i am wasting my time on a shill

What gave it away? My adherence to logic and facts?

about 90% of what you post is a snide retort to facts using shareblue talking points like claiming MSM was overwhelmingly negative against hillary and overwhelmingly pro-trump

only someone who gets paid for it would say something that stupid

chew soap

I never said the media was pro Trump. Why do you feel the need to lie and exaggerate to make a point?

To fake a mass murder you needs 100's or 1000's of immoral people.

They don't think it's immoral. No one dies, and their cause gets advanced. If anything they think they are doing a good thing.

Interesting take. What causes have been advanced other than gun sales?

I was thinking more anti-gun people, but I've heard people say that it could be viral marketing for gun manufacturers too. Still not nearly as immoral as actually killing people.

They have control of who gets into the concert, so they just give tickets to their actors. I guess the first responders and hospitals would have to be paid as well. Maybe a budget of a few million for actors and extras. I'm not saying that is what happened, but it hypothetically could have, and I'm not sure if it's even illegal if it did. The main problem with this theory is everyone keeping quiet about it.

Yeah, keeping 25,000 people quiet would be tough. All it would take is a few nurses to unravel the whole plot.

I guess an NDA with significant penalties would do it. I'm not sure if the media would be involved, or if they would just be reporting what they see and what the actors say to them.

People are posting pics of their relatives who survived with injury in r-Pics. You should ask if they think they were actors.

It's just a thought exercise about whether or not it could hypothetically be done, but obviously they would have to lie to their family and friends too, or maybe they signed an NDA as well and would lie to me. A few pics of some bloody bandages doesn't prove much.

They released pictures of the dead in Columbine. What changed?

columbine was real

people probably died but i don’t think it was a lone wolf assault. i think it was government orchestrated

We are all here to discuss points of conspiracy and have a debate. Offering different points of view are not anti conspiratorial thinking.

offering different viewpoints

That is a subversively fallacious comment. The goal is to deviate from the official story within reason. He is literally just reinforcing the official story. Thus it is not a "different viewpoint" - it's currently THE viewpoint. r/conspiracy's job is to be the dissenting viewpoint.

You cannot possibly be upset he gave a rebuttle to each point raised. That's what is wrong with the sub. It's fine to beleive we are not told the full story, I certainly do, but you can't just put your fingers in your ears when anyone says something counter to what you beleive.

There is many different possible senarios as to what happened, all but one will go againts the one offical naritive. You can't pick one and act like all the rest are untrue, and you also can't act like everything but the offical narative are possible.

If there are people behind this there is numerous ways they could have carried it out. Multiple gunmen, one gunman, actors, real victims etc etc.

Hahahaha you think YOU guys are the critical thinkers?

thats because some of his points are straight up stupid.

numerous videos with 2 guns firing? ive watched most of the videos and in every single one theres 1 gun mag dumping. the guy doesnt know what an echo is

fully accurate firing from 300+ yards? the gunman must have graduated top in his mossad class to be able to hit a group of 22,000 people from a sniper position.

he never had prior weapon experience

That's incorrect, he owned handguns (at a minimum) prior to the stockpile he began with the heavier guns. We don't know yet if he frequented shooting ranges or anything similar.

I found his hunting license while doing some public records searches, so in all likelihood he did have experience with rifles.

Is it doxxing to post a dead man's hunting license info? I'll gladly share to confirm.

That.. is a very good question. I'm not sure to what extent that kind of information is allowed.

Also heard that he was a hunter so this is all but confirmed and public info. His brother also said he owned a long rifle. Who owns a long rifle but NEVER has shot it before? Plus a hunting license tells me he has some level of training with a rifle.

Yep. I've been seeing it said in forums that it's an Alaskan hunting permit. My source didn't include the state (only the number and date issued), but the number format matches Alaska's format, so I buy it.

He could have been flying up their to play with his guns for years, especially since he owns two planes, and would reportedly disappear for a couple weeks at a time pretty frequently.

Done deal then. That is highly plausible. Considering his wealth from his job as an accountant, I could very well see him having land or something in Alaska to shoot weapons.

I hear two guns. Big difference between, crackling from ricochet, sonic boom, wizzing bullets and actual gun fire from the weapon. In about a 10 second frame from one of the smartphones I hear two distinct weapons discharging with two different rhythms. You have to be able to block out the ricochet and sonic booms.

Why are Vegas police talking about or how do they even know about reports from 2000 miles away? I didn't hear this part but that's all I can wonder. I'd love to find that on one of the scanner recordings from one of the other threads

What are you talking about?

The claims of police in Vegas talking about shootings in NYC.

They mean the hotel New York New York in Vegas.

You do realize there is a hotel called "New York, New York" that is literally a few blocks away from Mandalay Bay, right?

New York New York is a hotel on the strip

Jesus how did I forget that... Fuck well thank you for making this make more sense to me. Thank you seriously I'm a moron.

lol it's all good

there were reports of shots fired from several nearby hotels but they think it was just people getting confused in the chaos because it was so loud

Probably, but not to be discounted none the less.

NYNY is a casino/hotel in Las Vegas.....

New York-New York is the name of a hotel in Las Vegas

Yep dude is an mkuktra agent used to be a patsy my guess is there was atleast 1 or 2 other professional shooters in the room doing most of the heavy lifting/shooting before offing the patsy.

Yep, you have so much evidence brotha

"my guess"

And you're an idiot, brotha

Not unheard of.

Where is concrete evidence of this happening in other cases?

Hahahaha omg this generation is so fucked.

There is no critical thinking anymore from you idiots.

Literally all of your comments are useless trolling.

So pathetic haha! Israelisavage, you sad sad human

hey israelisavage (mossad agent).. do you wanna be my bitch??? :)

How fucking stupid are you idiots to think that a mossad agent would

A: Be on this dumbass subreddit.

B: Care about you retards.

and C: Use the word ISRAEL in their sockpuppet account?

The whole point of my name is calling ISRAELIS savages you dumb motherfuckers.

Are you people immune to logic now?

The thing that worries me is they don't know if he killed himself before officers arrived or when they saw him. They said cameras were set up to see when police were coming.

Made me think of a scenario where this guy was a patsy, the real killers left him there dead as a set up.

It's been done before.

thats eerily too easy

Lol

Insightful.

as are you

But, why don't you trust your government and our fine journalists citizen?

Trust is earned and I can't remember the last time the government earned it. Citizens, hell yes, government? Hell no.

Because our government doesn't even trust our journalists

you would think this being a casino and hotel that there would be numerous cameras that would have picked up this activity.

If he was killed in order to stage this from his room, we will never know about it. Better to have some nutty older white dude than admit to terrorism on American soil.

The implication is not that it's "terrorism", it is that the state is behind it.

state sponsored terrorism is still a thing!

Whether foreign or domestic that's how I feel about it.

terrorism ˈtɛrərɪzəm/Submit noun

the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

A coworker of mine today said a big smoking gun to him is the attempt ISIS made to claim responsibility. He is convinced that they don't try to frivolously claim ownership of things they didn't do. Remember back when 9/11 happened, Bin Laden immediately distanced himself from the attacks. From what I can tell, there's not much to be gained from a publicity/propaganda standpoint (at least from ISIS's perspective). This would likely push the people that want the Middle East turned into a parking lot over the edge.

Especially if it's organized.

That depends on which agenda you want to push.

How hard is it to put fucking metal detectors in hotels? They do it in sports stadiums and schools...

What a metal detector in a hotel? You’d need a force like the TSA to handle.

So what happens when people bringing in luggage inevitably set off the detector? Search all their bags? They’d need X-ray machines then, to make things more “convenient”. Do you even realize what you’re suggesting? A hotel is a totally different ballgame

Welp, to me this shooting is a totally different ballgame.

There's about 162 a year, not much different

How many involve 500+ injured and 50+ dead? Not that I agree with what the other guy is saying but this type of shooting IS new to the US

I was making a shitty joke

Ok where would you draw the line?

You’re actually suggesting that the appropriate response to something like this is to literally do a full search of every single person ( and all their luggage) who enters a hotel from now on.

Why stop there? Maybe we should get rid of that pesky 4th amendment altogether. How about instead you continue to just stay locked up in your mother’s basement and you won’t have to worry about getting shot.

But god forbid we restrict gun ownership in any way.

Your comment has no basis in reality. There are a tremendous amount of laws restricting gun ownership already. What reality do you live in?

A reality where, despite these "tremendous amounts of laws restricting gun ownership," we somehow managed to have 12,000 gun related deaths and 25,000 gun-related injuries in 2015, and 1,052 mass shootings from 2013-2015. (source). This doesn't happen anywhere else. The problem with the current gun restriction laws is that they aren't consistent. Yeah, I can't get a gun very easily in Chicago, but all I have to do is drive to Indiana where I don't need a permit. The laws we have do not work, and as soon as you bring up anything having to do with regulating firearms, swaths of people begin foaming at the mouth.

So pass more laws until you realize that no amount of laws will solve the problem in the United States. It’s impossible, due to the sheer volume of guns that exist, many of which are not even registered.

I just think we’d be better off focusing on why so many more American want to commit mass murder than anywhere else. If that’s even true.

Are any of those 12,000 deaths suicides or are those just murders?

Homicides.

Yeah that's why I asked when people include suicides it can be misleading.

I know. I think there's something like just under 170,000 total gun-related deaths/year. So, we're looking at something like 105,400 suicide gun deaths, which is tragic on its own; 12,000 gun homicides, and I'm guessing the remaining ~52,000 are accidental.

There are plenty of items people are bringing into hotels that are perfectly fine, and may be metal. Not like a sport event where there are only a few permitted items. Way too much manpower to try to do an airport-like search of everyone coming/going from hotels.

That's the biggest red flag for me. I mean do you know how many damn cameras are in a place like that? I guarantee there's not a spot in the whole building that isn't under camera surveillance with someone always actively watching the cameras. Also don't forget that the night of the McGregor-Mayweather fight there was some kind of active shooter situation in which NFL star Michael Bennet was arrested. I think the two events are linked

I've wondered myself if the two events are connected.

You know, that Craigslist Vegas actor posting. I was thinking maybe it was more-so for that night than this one. But who really knows? Maybe they're all not connected in any way.

Just a weird set of circumstances.

Commenting to watch later. Seems interesting to say the least

I guarantee there's not a spot in the whole building that isn't under camera surveillance with someone always actively watching the cameras.

Every hotel room in there, they can't have cameras in the room, its a gross invasion of privacy. He was in a room, so I don't see how any security or anything would have spotted any of this. People keep on mentioning "how did the hotel/security/someone not know about this?" the answer is dead simple: he walked in like a normal person then when he got into his room. I don't see this as being hard to comprehend.

Now there definitely should be camera footage from the hallways so that we can see if and when SWAT/police came in but I'm sure we'll never see that footage.

There should be some footage of someone hauling the guns and ammunition into that room, too. Also footage of how they got into and went through the building to get to that room and whether or not more than one person ever entered or left it over the preceding days.

Also footage of Paddock in the lobby and checking in and how much baggage he had with him or if he left and re-entered with more. Definitive proof that he was in fact the actual shooter and acted entirely alone. If all of what needs to fit in that scenario doesn't sound quite like a 64 year old retiree who leads the kind of relaxed and easy going lifestyle in which he goes to Vegas every so often to drink and play the slots to break up the monotony of the quiet community of retirees he lives in, then you're right, it doesn't.

Breaking-out huge floor to ceiling windows thirty floors up and perching at the very edge of them in order to shoot out of them is in itself a pretty damned scary and intimidating task that far too many seem to think would be easy without ever bothering to consider if they'd ever have enough nerve to attempt that over three hundred feet up from the ground or stand or kneel on the very edge of it to fire down into the street.

There's only so much you can write off to someone going off the deep end which is only explanation being offered for what is an extremely cold-blooded and methodical bit of work to not get actually get tripped-up and foiled before the grand finale in which you shoot yourself rather taking as many cops with you before they knock you off if killing as many people as you possibly can is your sole motive and you don't give a damn about your own life.

This isn't something I can envision some 64 year losing his shit and doing or ever succeeding with. For me only a trained professional would have the confidence and experience to ever be up to pulling something like that off, not someone who's never done anything like it before who in all likelihood would never think of doing it, or have no way to know if they could do it or succeed in doing it when faced with it, either. It's the stuff of guerilla and street combat set in a modern city of high rise structures. Not so familiar on this side of the world but with plenty of it that's gone on in the Middle-East with both US military and mercenaries being well versed with both encountering and using those very tactics, themselves.

As far as everyone is concerned with him hauling luggage and ammo, it's super fucking easy for him to sneak it in. He doesn't need massive long bags he could easily stash 10 guns, broken down, into a normal suitcase. He wasn't there on the concert grounds pulling the guns out of a bag and shooting he was supposedly there for something like a few weeks and the entirety of the weekend allegedly scoping it out. So all he had to do was take the guns apart stash them in a suit case and rebuild them in the room, he wasn't in a rush, he was patient. How many people go through those casinos with big boxes of camera equipment daily? or golf bags, or more than one suitcase. How many people are in and out daily sometimes with bags sometimes without, that's almost impossible to keep an eye on.

As far as sound i'm not sold it was multiple shooters although I am seeing some videos now showing flashes from the 4th floor. I say I'm not sold yet because sound bounces. The gun shot sounds will travel and bounce off of other surfaces creating the alleged multiple shooter scenario a shot sound coming the from the left at some good distance away could potentially hit a wall or building and sound like it's now coming from behind especially with the delay in sound travel.

Look do I buy a lone shooter scenario? Not entirely. do I believe it is plausible he somehow did on this on his own? it's entirely plausible regardless of his age or background. At that point he's shooting fish in a barrel and I'm more surprised the death toll isn't higher

As far as everyone is concerned with him hauling luggage and ammo, it's super fucking easy for him to sneak it in. He doesn't need massive long bags he could easily stash 10 guns, broken down, into a normal suitcase. He wasn't there on the concert grounds pulling the guns out of a bag and shooting he was supposedly there for something like a few weeks and the entirety of the weekend allegedly scoping it out. So all he had to do was take the guns apart stash them in a suit case and rebuild them in the room, he wasn't in a rush, he was patient. How many people go through those casinos with big boxes of camera equipment daily? or golf bags, or more than one suitcase. How many people are in and out daily sometimes with bags sometimes without, that's almost impossible to keep an eye on.

People seem to be constantly overlooking this simple fact, it's really kind of amazing.

Every thread people are saying "Where's the video of him carrying long bags or rifle bags or bla bla bla"

The biggest thing was is he wasn't in the dam crowd fumbling in a bag for guns. He was in an elevated position, patient, and shooting fish in barrel

There would still be footage of him making many trips up and down.

who cares if it was easy or not, is there footage of it so we can see how he brought everything in. there definitely should be and if theyre not showing it, its alarming, because then we have no confirmation of how/when the weapons got in there. if he didnt bring them all in via suitcase, the video can show who did or if he did

I was kinda shocked that it took them over 12 hours to release the photo of him, and no footage of him at the hotel so it does raise some questions, the manner that he brought them in isn't one of them IMO.

Right the manner doesn't matter but if there's only video of him bringing one or two suitcases in then clearly someone else brought some in as well. That's why the video of I'm bringing them in is important

think he checked in on Thursday, may be alot of footage to comb over, especially if he did not bring it all in at once.

The last report I heard they said he checked in Saturday, meaning the day before. Not a great deal of time, if that is so. I have no idea why there are so many conflicting reports about so many aspects of this right from the very get-go.

The windows and him breaking them out at that height, is as I said, more important than I think most believe. Something that very few people could bring themselves to do.

The whole idea of a high rise ambush strikes me as a highly unusual thing to think of or do in the manner that this one was carried out.

It's one thing to open a window and fire out of it with relative safety quite another to create a huge hole you could easily fall out of simply trying to make and then having to position yourself at very edge of it to shoot. I'm not talking about acrophobia or any unreasonable fear of heights but rather the most common kind that would disincline the vast majority of people from ever attempting it or ever getting as close to that opening as was necessary in this case.

Oddly enough any attempts to bring that up or simply point it out has run into far more resistance and derisive comments than I can count.

The inordinate push for the official line and to close down any notions that there may be more to this than meets the eye on this of all forums should be enough to convince most of the regulars that something out of the ordinary is definitely up with it.

But with the whole heights thing, if you're planning to go out via suicide by your own hand or by cop, at that point does the fear of falling out of a window really matter?

Yeah but how does a guy like him come up with this sniper kind of ambush. Its something you would think you need a military background to come up with and then execute.

Not really. I have zero military background and when I play battlefield 1 where do I snipe from? far away and as high as possible.

Are you really comparing playing battlefield 1 with planning and carrying out a mash shooting? Do you also believe horses are bullet proof?

No moron but the same fucking concept applies if you have a little bit of knowledge it's not that hard to fucking think out. Wanna do as much damage as possible get far away where u can oversee everything it's not that difficult

I think your oversimplifying that amount of effort and firearms training it would require to do something like this. By your own admission of zero military background besides Battlefield 1, of course. Your hardly qualified you as an expert on what it would take to actually carry out a shooting like this. I can agree with you on not wanting to give him any credit, but I don't really think carrying out an attack like this would be as simple or easy as your proposing it to be.

He knew he was going to die. So explain why he would care so much about falling out of the window?

You're trying to attach logic to someone that is oast that point.

He also doesn't have to go through the lobby with his bags. Easily can get them in through the parking garage, head to the elevators, and go up to his room. It's not as if he had 20 body bags with him when he checked in to the hotel.

Of course it's plausible the only thing is it's a solo shooter there will be ample video evidence to support the claim. If they don't release the video recordings of just the hallway outside the door alone something's probably up. I mean don't get me wrong any sort of video like that could and would be conjured so I'm not sure what could be the decisive concluder to the conspiracy.

Exactly. The domestic terrorist is being treated differently than a Muslim terrorist? Where is the video of him checking in and all his movements since he checked in and who he engaged with?

If he was there 4 days and had to take multiple trips to bring his ammo and guns you would hope they have the brains to at least release some footage of him. As for how easy it is to bring all his weapons up to the room. Its not a matter of breaking the weapons down. Its a matter how much wt a 64 yo guy can carry without looking suspicious. Tripods, rifles and ammo have got to weigh a decent amount. Also if a guy checked in 2 days ago and he is still bringing bags of shit up his room doesn't that at some point become suspicious too? I mean with the amount shit they found in his room you would suspect at the very least he had someone helping him bring up his stuff.

He was reportedly gambling 10k a day, I am sure he carried nothing him self, room service would have rolled his luggage on a cart surely, and may not have seemed suspicious for a high roller to have lots of luggage? just some speculation. Also a simple shoe box of loaded ammo is pretty heavy to be carrying around, much less the quantity he had.

who cares if it was easy or not, is there footage of it so we can see how he brought everything in. there definitely should be and if theyre not showing it, its alarming, because then we have no confirmation of how/when the weapons got in there. if he didnt bring them all in via suitcase, the video can show who did or if he did

4th floor muzzle flashes were a strobe light. This myth was debunked a long time ago (video 1hr prior to shooting captured said strobe light)

Well where is the video of it? Being edited by FBI and other casino security?

Breaking-out huge floor to ceiling windows thirty floors up and perching at the very edge of them in order to shoot out of them is in itself a pretty damned scary and intimidating task that far too many seem to think would be easy without ever bothering to consider if they'd ever have enough nerve to attempt that over three hundred feet up from the ground or stand or kneel on the very edge of it to fire down into the street.

They say he broke out the window, but he could have just as easily cut a small hole in the window with a glass cutter and stick the barrel through. Even if he did break the whole window, why would he have to get out on the ledge? Do you not understand how a bi-pod works? All he would have had to do was put the bi-pod on the window sill and let her rip.

You take a hard look at those windows and you'll see they're not ordinary glass but tinted "structural glass" panels that sheath the entire building. You look that up and glass curtain construction and you'll see it is by no means as easy to cut or break for that matter.

Speculating on what else he could have or might have done isn't as important as what was done. Imagine yourself in a room 30 stories up with a 6' x 10' floor to ceiling hole that the breeze is blowing in and in order to aim downwards as the shooter did you'd have to get very close to that open edge. There is no sill or ledge there is only the edge of the floor of that room with a 300' sheer drop on the other side of it and that's nothing compared to the danger in trying to bash it out, chunk by chunk in the first place.

You got me there, I'll admit I didn't look at the actual windows. I knew it was obviously going to be some sort of safety glass and not your standard window pane glass, which is a lot harder to shatter.

I just looked at the picture of the windows being busted out and one thing definitely doesn't add up: if there was only one shooter, then why are two windows that are 9 panes apart busted out?

footage of someone hauling guns and ammunition into that room.

Just to play a little devils advocate. It would not be hard or conspicuous to break down whatever weapon(s) he used and bring them in to the hotel up to his room in a suitcase or backpack. In fact if you had a large suitcase like you would take on a plane you could very easily break down the weapons and cart them in the suitcase upstairs with no one knowing.

Ammunition he could have bought locally and very similarly brought upstairs in a backpack or suitcase unnoticed.

It's not as if he had a blunderbuss or something.

I have no assertion of anything nor do I prescribe any theory I'm simply saying that it is very possible to bring multiple weapons up to a hotel room unnoticed if you know how to break down a weapon.

I'd argue that it would seem really weird for a guy to keep hauling up full bags and returning with empty. That's a ton of trips over the course of 4 days. The guns are totally believable. The thousands of rounds of ammunition? Much less so that no one would notice that or we would see a dozen+ trips up and down. Up full heavy af bag, down with empty.

Please check me if I'm wrong on this.

Average 9mm bullet ≈ 8 grams 1000 Bullets ≈ 8000 grams ≈ 17.64 lbs

That's a good point, didn't actually do the math, thanks!

What's the weight on a .308 or .213?

Not sure. I'd have to look that up. Good homework for me, I like the maths.

.308 is about 35lbs for 540rnds

Show one video of him checking into the hotel or him walking to the room with a suitcase. That's usually the first thing that happens in these situations with news coverage.. You know they have cameras in the hallways/elevators but not one video to show the guy there.

They should prob just tear the whole hotel down like they did with sandy hook. 27 kids was a tragedy and warranted completely removing that structure from Existence so why don't they tear down this gigantic hotel/casino.

It's worth repeating here: "Not so familiar on this side of the world but with plenty of it that's gone on in the Middle-East in it's most modern and developed countries with both US military and mercenaries being well versed with both encountering and using those very tactics, themselves." We are soft. We have no fucking idea

When the US attacked Saddam in Baghdad a great many people were shocked to see just how completely modern and upscale both the city and it's inhabitants all were.

I think if there was any general consensus before that it would have been people in turbans, sandals, and flowing garments with plenty of camels parked around as they haggled in tented street-markets, not a scene that could be in the very heart of any of the best cities in the US or anywhere else for that matter. A modern city that is now in tatters with pitched gun-battles suddenly erupting and bombs going off. Not soft, but naïve with a stilted view and too little knowledge about a world beyond US borders they've grown up believing is vastly inferior to their own in every possible way.

They don't have cameras on the hotel floors. They're all on the gambling and main floors and the below ground floors that manage the money. You won't ever see hallway footage of the swat team because it doesn't exist

I would have assumed they would to catch assaults and robberies that I'm sure happen there pretty often, but then again I've never been there.

I have been to multiple hotels with video cameras on every floor in the hallways. Sure it was weird but I have seen them, especially in poorer towns. So maybe just the ghetto hotels?

B.S. Cameras everywhere in casino hotel except bathrooms and inside rooms

They said the maids didn't see any guns when they cleaned the room. How easy is it to hide 19 guns in a hotel room for over a day?

Not too difficult, considering maids shouldn't be going through your drawers, suitcases, and closets (if there were any).

People are saying they want to see him showing up to his room with suitcases.

If he was a patsy and not the actual shooter it would show a guy getting into an elevator with a suitcase or two. He apparently had a woman with him, and we all know how women like to pack for trips hahaha

Once again, this would prove nothing except that he was there.

Yah I agree

Cameras in those places aren't even on the room floors just at the elevators, the gambling floor, and below ground where they store all the cash.

The people aren't anything but commodities. The actual assets get the protection

Plus some visitors don't want to be recorded taking a prostitute into their hotel room.

The main floor and anything with a gaming machine is littered with them though

Whaaaat? So Las Vegas hotels aren't flooded with cameras? That's crazy. For the past 5 years I've always thought Las Vegas was the most surveilled place in America. Man that's crazy.. It makes sense though because a lot of really weird things happen in Las Vegas. Thanks for the info though, so I definitely won't expect too much video footage. Just him entering basically. There's no chance cameras don't get put in the hallways after this though

Exactly. Where is all the hotel/casino surveillance footage of his movements and who he interracted with since he checked in? Did he check in on 27th/28th? Which is it??

When?

Movies!

Clearly.

112263

Great show.

Very, very sad day.

Ah. Fiction.

The movie phone booth comes to mind...

what's that one?

Well there's a gunmen in a highrise, and a man in a phonebooth.

Who said that there were cameras set up? 4chan?

It's been rumored all day, no one has been able to provide an actual source.

They barely mentioned it on the police scanner recording I found. Listen to Initial Radio Traffic

Isn't it about an hour before any officers attempt to enter the hotel room?

The timeline is very confusing.

Maybe 40 minutes from that recording? I don't know when it started. It took them a very long time to even locate the building(s) the fore was coming from.

Agreed. I haven't heard a solid report of how long the shooting was actually happening. I can't imagine the guy shot himself before the police were entering his room but that would have left him to shoot for nearly an hour.

It was reported by someone at FOX News early this morning. It was probably Adam Housely but can't be for sure.

A lot of news sources reported things today that have now been retracted, like the gunman being known to local police or smoke detectors being the way the gunman's room was found. I'm having a hard time finding a source that's reporting anything about the camera.

Or they put a gun to his head to do the shooting so there is gun powder residue all over him...

There would be evidence if this happened. First there is probably security cameras in the hotel. Second, there would be signs of physical struggle that would show up in autopsy. Third, there would be some kind of DNA evidence from the killers that would be found in the room.

Not if the police doesn't want to search for evidence.

Why do they not want to search the room? Give me one reason other than "they are in on it".

I don't know. This is a conspiracy forum, so I'm gonna go with "they are in on it" or who's behind it got their people there first.

I'm all for a good conspiracy, but it has to at least be plausible or it's just dumb. What you're implying requires an absolutely enormous amount of people to be in on it,and it's just not even remotely plausible.

requires an absolutely enormous amount of people to be in on it

Well, if it was a false flag operation it was done by the deep state (or something like that). Since they control the government, how really difficult would it actually be? Most people still believe the official narrative of 911, so I would guess it's not that hard.

How is that not plausible. An intelligence agency setting up a false flag where they send it a team of 3 guys to carry out an assault and have them set up a patsy to look like it was just some random guy while the team then escapes and now they can start planning new laws and policy's to fit the situation.

You haven't been here very long? We got past the "no way, too many people would have to be in on it" with the Kennedy assassination.

Why do you think they are in on it? If it's some other group, how did they convince the police and federal investigators not to search? you have to have some plausible narrative if you are implying that this is a conspiracy.

they convince the police

I think it would be more like they control the police, or what "part" (department, whatever you want to name it) of the police will investigate it.

Who is they?

I could say "the deep state", but who are they? The lizards? Soros? Rothschild? I don't know. But (assuming this actually was a false flag operation) I'd go with the ones who profit with it, or will profit.

I could say "the deep state", but who are they? The lizards? Soros? Rothschild? Hillary? I don't know. But (assuming this actually was a false flag operation) I'd go with the ones who profit with it, or will profit.

P

?

Sry. I test replied because original reply had an error. Thought I got banned for shilling. Have edited previous comment....or did I?

I see, I edit my reply aswell if you're interested.

CIA/deep state

The Las Vegas police aren't even going to be gathering evidence! The FBI is gathering evidence! So yes the FBI is in on it

The whole point is not to believe anything, but weight up everything to make your own conclusion, but even then, you weren't there so you can't know for sure.

True. But I don't see nothing wrong with questioning the official narrative when things are left unexplained.

I agree

It doesn't work that way, that the police are all 'in on it.' They're not, they don't have to be. What happens is that someone higher up gets pressured by someone who is in on it, someone who has authority, or has leverage on the higher up. The higher up then takes the evidence collected by the junior officers and tells them he/she will take care of it, comes back and tells them they were mistaken, or the evidence showed something else, or just doesn't mention it again. Any junior officers who get worried about this and speak up get told to shut up, their job is threatened. If they push it, then depending on the circumstances they're blackmailed/their life or family is threatened. Some of them occasionally speak up, maybe in the first chaos they say something to the media, but it never gets replayed on TV again so people forget about it in the mainstream. Or they don't get media coverage, and they end up doing an interview or two with alternative media (this is if they're ok to lose their job) and then people dismiss them and call it fake news.

This happens time and time again. I've heard testimony from cops investigating various things who have been silenced in one way or another, another way is if they ask too many questions they get taken off the case, moved to another department etc.

The hierarchical nature of law enforcement and the fact that they generally only employ people with an average or below average IQ - i.e. people who are happy to follow orders and assume the higher ups have good reasons without questioning, helps with this. You can look up cases where people who tested too highly were refused from employment with the police force.

Michael Ruppert and Chris Dorner come to mind when thinking of cops who presented evidence and got shuffled to the back of the deck

That is where FBI/CIA come into play. They control narrative and what is fed to media

How is "they are in on it" NOT a reasonable conclusion based on everything that has become evident in the last few years? The freedom of information in the internet age has called into question much of what has been spoon fed to us until now.

Easy: they don't want to be put into a position where they have to explain themselves looking for clues of a conspiracy. They got their answers served on a silver tray.

Higher authority tells them to go home while they take care of it.

Why would they not want to do that?

Well, if this was a false flag operation that's kinda expected.

But why would you ever think there's some absurd elaborate conspiracy rather than just a regular old mass shooter?

That's not even remotely logical...

Occam's razor only applies if the "simple" explanation is true. Relying on government is a very risky bet (as history shows us) so I understand why one would doubt the official narrative.

Yes the simple explanation is probably the true one.

A random mentally ill mass shooting is infinitely more simple than an elaborate conspiracy.

That's how logic works dumbass.

lol I'm just showing another point of view, and why one might think like that. This is a conspiracy forum, you should expect (and come here for) that kind of discussion.

I expect critical thinking and logic.

None of which would lead one to the false conclusion.

It's so incredibly implausible and complicated that one would have to suspend all intellectual honesty to believe it.

That's very debatable, but I agree.

Still, there are a lot of people that don't trust the government (for good reasons) and find "events" like this being a possible false flag. It's only day 1 after it happened and that's probably why, but there are definitely weird things that haven't been explained yet.

Fair enough. Guess we'll just have to wait as more info comes out.

Sorry for being aggressive earlier.

They could search it and only get evidence that supports the narrative. It's something that does go on, but is never really talked about.

NIST. (9/11)

Or were "told to stand down".

FBI

Why would you assume there was a struggle? That makes no sense.

I thought the theory was the real.killers killed this guy?

Well unless he beat himself to death I don’t see how that automatically means there was a struggle. A bullet to the side of the head can occur without a struggle. Or he could have been drugged. It’s just an odd assumption to make tbh

the real.killers would be pros, mercs, heavily trained ex-special forces. they wouldn't need much effort to subdue a 64 year old without a struggle.

There would be evidence if this happened.

Have you never heard the phrase "police cover up" before? Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, sometimes bad people destroy evidence to keep their crimes a secret and there's no way we can ever prove it.

"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence ".

That's a great phrase Afrobean. I'll use that if you don't mind.

Sheriff said hard for him to believe he didn't have help. FBI covering up. Local police are out of it. FBI desperate putting up billboards now for tips? Odd. What is in his computer records and phones?

So where are these camera recordings, and what if those who can classify said recordings are also the ones who carried it out? Hypothetical situation ofcourse but worth exploring right?

There would be evidence if this happened

We're not talking about amateurs trying to cover something up. This would be top notch agency guys.

There is no reason to say there would be DNA evidence. You watch too much TV.

Lol I literally don't watch TV at all. What are you basing this on?

Only a forcensic examiner can determine a "suicide" wound.

Yah. He worked for Lockheed Martin. That's the government and used as a cover job identity from what I understand. He probbaly knew something that he shouldn't have. His girlfriend was in Saudia Arabia at this time?

I believe she was in the Philippines

Are you saying that there were dead bodies found in places outside of the concert venue?

Bet dude had nothing to do with this, except maybe arrange the hotel stay. In the end, I feel this whole thing could be set up by a Soros funded operation and had ANTIFA lackies calling in bogus shots fired in other hotels as diversion/chaos. Maybe I'm too stoned and tripping.

The video will be out. If he checked in a few days prior, loved to gamble, he could of been scoped out as a perfect target. I'm sure video will come out as someone dressed like him carrying large bags into the hotel.

Thousands of rounds. On many multiple trips I'd assume

I guess if you owe millions you might become a patsy...

I considered this at first as well, but there are cameras all over the hotel that should be able to put a timeline to his actions outside of the room. I've been to Vegas several times and there isn't an inch of public space that isn't being recorded at all time. If they can't produce footage of him from the time he arrives all they way up to the shooting, then something is definitely sketchy

Do you mean to include footage of the dozens of awkward full bag up/empty bag down videos of him over the course of 4 days.

It's possible it could have all been brought up in 1 or maybe 2 trips on a luggage cart at a minimum. My guess would be 2, since if you stacked heavy luggage high on one of those carts, your center of gravity would make the cart prone to tip over.

I don't think as a hotel employee, I would be too suspicious seeing someone loading up a cart full of bags unless I was the person that checked them in. To any other person you could easily assume that it's a husband bringing up luggage for their family. Even if I was the one to check him in, I don't think any kind of alarm bells would be ringing. I mean he could be a dude who brought a bunch of old stuff he wanted to get on pawnstars with. Typically Vegas hotel employees want to make you as comfortable as possible and want to offer you every courtesy to incentivise you to stay with them again. Not to mention, this isn't the kind of person people would generally profile.

I haven't read anywhere how he had arrived at the hotel yet, but if he drove, the footage from where he unloaded his luggage should show the tail end of the car rise an inch or 2.

Exactly!!

who’s patsy?

This is the most sane and logical thing in this entire thread.

Beware of shills surrounding this subject

Have you or anyone else here seen the cell phone footage & dashcam footage showing the shots coming from the fourth floor? I watched two different clips last night and one other recording of dispatchers; there was absolutely a shooter on floor 4

Yep you can see the muzzle flash on around the 10th floor or so. Then the 2 windows blown out on the 32nd floor.

Atleast 3 shooters

I just don't see the motivation for staging this

I don't either! I'm thinking a cover-up.

Maybe we found out too late that there was a group of terrorists/shooters? Maybe we'd look foolish because we'd previously been watching them, keeping tabs on their travel, etc. and yet they got away with this? So the official story is, we got the one guy who did it all, when maybe five guys got away with it and I'd be inclined, then, to also believe that Paddock may be a patsy, placed in that room and killed (or part of the group, plans unknown to him, he's killed and left to be found by police as the only fall-guy) and the US govt. can hold their heads high and say we couldn't have prevented it. I really do believe there were many more than one shooter. There have yet to be any videos in the casinos of Paddock moving weapons in. Logically you'd assume someone else helped him? I'm curious if he's our center of attention, but a loose-end in the real, true story of what happened, and he got tied up to make this look nice and simple. Single, active shooter turns the gun on himself, when he could've easily made an effort to escape? Millions of dollars and nothing to do but practice hobbies on his multiple properties? Seems like the same guy who would get bored enough to get sucked into plans he wasn't fully aware of.

This is what I'm leaning towards as well...

The history and background of the alleged shooter seems inconsistent with what took place.. A little too convenient that the guy took his own life and isn't able to talk now...

The LAPD were loosing their minds on twitter when they realized the MSM was reporting that they got them all. I watched the twitter feed and the discrepancies between the stuff coming straight from the LAPD and the MSM were staggering. Someone didn't get the script

Im curious to see stories when this has actually been done before. This was my thought whenever something like this happens, but its always a "conspiracy theory" or something from a movie. Are there publicized stories where someone was set up?

Yeah, if he shot for 10-12 minutes and the cops did not get into the room for 72 minutes, that would have left him quite a bit of time to try to get away or try to kill more people. Also, a couple of the articles I read said that they were unsure if the cameras were streaming. If that is still unconfirmed it makes me think that they did not find a laptop or something in his room where he would have been monitoring them from

Any evidence of him being trained in the army?

I believe that information would have come out already, it doesn't look like it.

So many upvoted posts supporting the official narrative in a conspiracy sub? Smells like a false flag.

Smells like you guys are severely retarded and the vast majority here know it.

I love you too

Username checks out

Haha you racist fucks eat that shit up right?

Nah, this is just an alt I made when I did my study abroad in the Middle East.

I'm just a white ass, atheist, ginger American.

Religion is gay, as are you conspiritards.

israelisavage is one of them.. false flag as fuck.. I love it!

one of them

I can understand your sentiment, but deep down isn't it all 'us'?

(Forgive me, not trying to be pedantic :)

The whole thing doesn't add up.. the brother was SHOCKED as his brother would NEVER do such a thing.. the answer for the lazy ones: MK ULTRA

Most families are shocked when their loved ones kill

Yes, it was MK Ultra.. He's shocked because it doesn't make a little inch of sense..

Which is how it most always is.

Put away your conspiracy boner retard. Nobody expects their family to be killers until they kill.

This is a common sentiment.

We are in a conspiracy subreddit. I'm not the retard one here.. Go spread your statements elsewhere.

So there's no room for critical thinking here?

Just cherry pick whatever fits your incredibly implausible narrative?

Pathetic.

Insulting people isn't constructive.

Is that literally the only thing you can glean from what I said?

Are you so triggered that you've lost all capacity for intellectual rigor?

Did you think going in a conspiracy sub to call them retards wasn't going to piss anyone off? Lol

I thought you fags were at least capable of cobbling together something logically coherent.

But nope. Just unambiguous mental illness.

just because you're in this fucking cess pool of retards doesn't mean you get to go into a thread and say "MKULTRA" then walk away and act like you're not a complete fucking moron

Are you asking people to stop talking conspiracy in the sub dedicated to it? Every event is questioned here, every single time. Doesn't matter how far fetched you think it is.

I'm asking people to use some goddamn critical thinking and basic logic.

People are thinking critically about the narrative and throwing ideas around. Some are bad ones, but you dont have to be insulting about it, or tell them to stop thinking all together.

Most families are shocked when their loved ones kill

No they aren't. Most people greet them with a kiss at the airport..

Does his brother also work for a military contractor? Why do I ask? He lives in Orlando, aka the #1 city for defense contract jobs aside from DC of course.

I didn't know this.. (non-USA citizen here). He worked for Lockheed Martin (source: everywhere).. He definitely knew something or he was planning something :) That's why CIA used him(his brain) to do such a horrible thing..

I lived in Orlando, and its disgusting how many people work for companies that build weapons or program guidance systems etc etc which end up getting sold to Saudis and other questionable nations. They were my smiling neighbors, the people I bought groceries with, and they were fucking scum.

It's scientifically proven that bias is associated with knowing someone. In moments of shock a person close to someone will only recognise the "positive" things about them. Over time they will begin to remember signs that may have indicated something was not right.

yeah..like: "my brother worked for Lockheed Martin".. hahaha Definitely something was not right into this..

He's just describing confirmation bias.

This is a pretty important point, especially for this event. Everyone is saying he was a pretty normal guy, but I'm curious what's going to come out of later interviews with his girlfriend, brother, neighbors, etc.

It's kinda strange for sure. Then again--he wouldn't be the first person that moved to the desert and got weird.

the answer for the lazy ones: MK ULTRA

I agree with you there, just in the opposite way you claim.

That's ok

Great post, my only issue is that shooting into a crowd roughly 200-300 yards away (as the bullet flies) and killing tons of people the way we saw (i.e. the 10 second full auto bursts) just takes a drum magazine, an automatic weapon and some basic gun knowledge (which is almost certain given the first two).

It's not like he was picking targets and eliminating them, he was just spewing bullets into a sea of people. To me I don't see where the military experience is needed. That being said every other point you mentioned is solid evidence for me that we don't have the full story.

I still believe he could be a patsy and am almost certain he wasn't a lone wolf which is the important part.

Really? All the rest add up to you?

Shots fired over police scanner after suspect found dead.

We're basing this off one guy trying to recall the order of events on a police scanner that he listened to for several hours straight 24 hours ago. He even said this: "I do not have an accurate timeline on this, actually, I just remembered. This had to be before 11:00pm." Convincing.

Multiple full auto weapons can be heard overlapping each other when fired on video

From the echo of the buildings, to the fact that bullets break the sound barrier, to the explanation that he might've just been firing two guns simultaneously, this is not good evidence.

The suspect had no experience, background, or anything to do with weapons/military

As other have said, he's shooting into a crowd of thousands.

It took hours to evacuate a theatre inside a casino that was already considered "secure"

Perhaps you don't want over 1000 drunk traumatized people rushing out when police and medics are trying to get a handle on the situation?

Suspect was fully accurate firing from 320 feet up across a street from a casino

Again, crowd of people.

Victims found in New York New York, Mandalay Bay, Route 91, and Aria but shots fired only at Mandalay Bay

First, people can continue to move after being shot if its not fatal. Second, people often carry victims to safety.

I'm not saying todays facts fits our cliche model of what usually "makes sense" in these circumstances, perhaps something weird is going on, but this guy's story is not proving a damn thing.

No one is talking about the pic of the outside of the casino where two different windows are broken

You mean this?

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/73tfd1/the_broken_windows_on_the_32nd_floor/

It's a big corner suite.

The windows belong to the same room in the hotel.

I think it's fully possible that a terrorist(s) went up to the 32nd floor, knocked on a random door, shot the occupant and used the room for the shooting.

Maybe they got away, security checked the cameras and is now searching for him/them. They got him on camera but want him to think they're off his trail while they hunt him down.

That doesn't seem too far fetched to me. Just because his body was found in the room doesn't prove that he and he alone did the shooting. He could be a victim.

The guy doesn't seem like some kind of radical. And probably 80% of Nevada residents have a dozen guns with a few boxes of ammo for each at home - that the media would then deem "a weapons stockpile".....

The thing that will support or destroy this theory (random person becoming a patsy) is if they are indeed his weapons and there is a trail of him getting the ammo. A random person wouldn't have brought their collection with them on "vacation" or to the casinos... and if he was random, no one entering. His room would have his stash either.

Gun store has him buying all the weapons they found in the hotel room and at his home (15 more at his house with plenty of ammo for each), he had been buying guns for a while prior to this.

[removed]

Can you share the link to the source for this pls?

there wont be one

LMGTFY

proved me wrong! thankyou

Not true. He bought two guns i believe in the last year from that gun shop. That's different from the 10-20 guns reportedly used in the shooting plus another few dozen at his house.

People who knew him said he had a few guns but wasn't some gun nut with an arsenal of fairly exotic weapons. He'd never been in the military. There's next to no chance that these weapons were legally purchased as full-auto. Meaning someone modified them to be full-auto. You would have to have a serious interest in firearms to gather the knowledge to convert them to full auto (and have them cycle reliably). Add the fact that it was a variety of types of weapons that were all gunsmithed/modified and this guy just doesn't fit the profile.

legally purchased as full-auto

where are you getting that they were full auto? They weren't. They were semi-auto with after market mods which are legal to purchase but in a grey area when fitting onto a gun. The sound in the vids isn't full auto is too slow.

Did you read my comment? I said he had to have modified a semi auto. For a guy without much interest or experience in firearms, that's difficult.

For a guy without much interest or experience in firearms,

This idea seems to be coming from the interview with the brother whom he hadn't spoken to in 6months and even then it was minimal by text, so I'm not really all that sure brother knows him that well. And clearly he had an interest in guns since he had dozens and had previously taken his nieces and nephews skeet shooting at one point. A new found interest in guns and it wouldn't take very long to get up to speed on types of weapons and mods. Head over to any gun forum and you will see talk of mods within the first few posts.

difficult

Nah they are now saying it was just bump fire stocks. That's not difficult, it's just a novelty item you can pick up pretty easily. The whole thing seems fishy to me though. They better come up with some kind of motive cuz no one is going to keep buying the "lone wolf, no motive, no political views" story.

It's looking like gambling debt. The more his brother talks about how he gambles the higher a % chance it was that. The media might even be pushed off that trail cause Vega could lose a lot of money if it's seen as "pushing him over the edge". The target just doesn't make sense for politices. Gun nut with tons of guns and ammo losses a ton of money goes up to his hotel room and goes nuts makes sense. I don't know though just a guess.

It's not difficult. It comes with directions and is only a couple of pieces. Takes less then 30 mins and you can watch a youtube guide.

Ar15 7min guide

Dude owned 2 planes for christ's sake, he didn't need to do anything himself. He just had to throw money at someone.

Like this Bump stock mod.

A random person in a lot of gambling debt might be easily tricked into doing an arms deal that seemed too good to pass up. Buying the bullets and guns doesn't necessarily show intent to use them in an attack.

There is a gun show in Vegas this upcoming weekend, maybe he brought them to sell/trade? Got there a week early to have fun.

This seems feasible. The tracking on the ownership of the guns in the room should shed some light.

or spark some debate...

Here is another thing to consider;

The Tropicana has clear line of sight to the room of the shooter(s?) The closest point at the Tropicana to the Mandalay Bay is approximately 660 meters away. Assuming 10 ft per floor, that means the highest point at the Tropicana was approximately 100 ft lower than the room with the blown out windows.

That means there was a comfortable 5.1 degree vertical tangent from the Tropicana to the Mandalay Bay. The standard issue police M24 has an effective range of approximately 900 yards. The shooting went on for approximately 72 minutes.

Where the fuck was SWAT that entire time?

He was a Vegas regular from what I've read. $100 poker hands etc. etc. I still haven't heard any audio or seen video of evidence that backs up the two shooter claim. The only audio I've heard is what sounds like crank shot semi auto with likely a 100 round mag.

https://youtu.be/EOsoY_AEh9c

Seems like a muzzle flash around the 15th-20th floor. Other angles show the same lights, which disprove the possibility of it being a reflection of a flashing light.

That’s it for me I’m 100% convinced that is the shooter, and it ain’t on the god damn 32nd floor. Why are they lying????????????

people are saying it's a strobe light - this seems to confirm https://vimeo.com/user72140679

Light stops though. The light doesn't stop even in a strobe lights different selectable flash patterns. I'm reasonably convinced it's gunshots and there were multiple shooters.

Interesting. Is there any evidence of a broken window on that floor?

No there isn't. I've stayed at Mandalay bay 15th foor. Windows do not open. Idiot armchair detectives on reddit think they smell conspiracy

Set playback speed to 0.25x and you can see the light never stops. Its looks more faded in another angle, but never stops patterin.

This is very compelling. I have also seen the other video of similar flashes in and around the 16th or so floor. I just feel as if we would have heard multiple guns shooting at once. Unless shooter 1 dumped 100 rounds and then shooter 2 dumped 100 or whatever rounds. Definitely compelling.

I agree. Unfortunately with the amount of large buildings around combined with the reasonable distance from the shots it's hard to tell if there are multiple guns being fired or if it's just the echo of one gun. Too many variables to draw a distinct conclusion.

where are the broken windows in the lower floors, in the spot this video claims is muzzle flash? surely there must be plenty of photos taken today, in the daylight, of them.

Can't vouch for this but some on Reddit have claimed that lower floor windows at Mandalay can be opened a bit. I will be asking some friends here who are in housekeeping if this is true.

This is not true. You will not find a new hotel on the strip that has opening windows, and then ones that used to are almost if not all nailed shut after gambler suicides gave the casinos too much bad press. If there is a broken window on a lower floor, there will likely not be photos of it because the strip was shut down before it was light enough to take any photos.

exactly this multiple shooters on lower floors is complete and utter BS. Some people claim to have seen some flashing light on a window in VEGAS and think its muzzle flash. HAHAHA

How would they shoot through an unbroken window?

It's Vegas at night with shitty cell phone cameras, lighting anomalies aren't surprising at all. Also any flash hiders would hinder seeing a flash at that range, most onlookers said they could see the smoke from the windows from all his firing before they could see muzzle flashes.

This is a strobe light. It was mentioned multiple times in the police radio traffic and there are multiple videos of it flashing when he is not firing. Including news reports more than an hour later. I wouldn't be surprised if it is still down there flashing away. Additionally it is flashing slower than the rate of fire. There is no window broken window. The windows can't be opened or repaired from the inside. You have to use a carriage from the roof and do the work from the outside. In short this is nothing.

Agreed. Link shows light was still on hours after the shooting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GingerMcQueen/status/915056578985955330

casinos have cameras every where. there should be footage of people entering or leaving that floor

Correct. If this were to be the case we will eventually find out about it. But I could see the government keeping that narrative quiet just for the sake of public safety.

A lot of the casinos out here don't have cameras in the hallways of their hotels. Mostly just in the casino areas where the gambling is.

You're telling me in one of the most secure buildings in the U.S. considering casino money and security systems involved. That they don't have a camera at least in each stairwell, elevator, fire escape? I'd be shocked if a hotel didn't have a camera in their halls. People could fuck up hallways and get away with it easily then..

I'm telling you from experience working here for the last several years. When I first moved here I took an under the table job sliding flyers under doors in hotels for some shitty timeshare opportunity. Was told I could be kicked out by security guards if seen doing it so I was very paranoid walking through the hallways. I constantly was looking for any cameras as I walked through each floor and found none in almost all of the large casinos I flyer'd. I had not been to Vegas before so I was shocked to not see any and it's a fact that's stayed with me for quite some time. This was not even three years ago.

I'm with you there is minimum a camera in every elevator and fire escape.

You're telling me in one of the most secure buildings in the U.S. considering casino money and security systems involved.

They have security where the money and gambling is, not where people are partying. Their motto is "what happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas", remember?

That they don't have a camera at least in each stairwell, elevator, fire escape?

Not the hallways.

People could fuck up hallways and get away with it easily then..

They could, but they don't, because they're there to drink, and gamble, and party, and fuck. Not to fuck up hallways. Are you arguing in favor of more surveillance btw?

In a private establishment do whatever the fuck you want. If you own it it's yours. Nobody is forcing you to stay there. This isn't the airport or my webcam.

No, they can't. They can't put hidden security cameras in your room.

I said the hallway never a room. Now a room is different. If they were doing it nobody would stay there

most secure buildings in the U.S.

Stopped reading there. It's a hotel, not a supermax, or fort knox, or the the iraq embassy.

Maybe not in the residential areas but I can damn well guarantee you there is a camera on every exit in that building. Can't say that about most buildings in the US.

For one, there is absolutely no fucking way the government can claim a lack of casino camera footage like they did with the plane that crashed into the Pentagon on 9/11. Sure, they could try to do that again but the public won't fall dumb for it a second time.

And if it’s deep state we’d never see it

So it is deep state because there is no evidence?

lmao

I'm honestly not expecting to see any casino video footage of this whatsoever.

Yep too much of a admission of liability on the casino's part imho.

Cover up in effect since Monday

I can't even begin to tell you how many cameras the Mandalay bay has. It's ridiculous.

But the guns were registered to him and we know he shot back through the door before shooting himself.

Where did you read that the guns were registered to him? I haven't read that

NPR.

You'd think a terrorist would setup a false flag attack?

65% upvoted

What a shock.

Just my two cents, but what sounds like two different guns in all the videos I've seen sounds like it's two sounds from one gun: The more poppy type more muffled sounds would be the sound of the shells firing in the gun and the more crackly sound would be the sonic boom of the bullets flying through the air. The bullets travel faster than sound and at that distance I'd expect you'd hear the cracking sound of the actual bullets slightly before the sounds of the gun actually going off because the sound comes from a shorter distance. Add in some massive buildings with a bunch of flat angled surfaces and one full auto or crank fire gun would easily sound like 3 or 4 guns going off. Not trying to poke holes in your version of events but just offering an explanation of why the gunshots sound like a bunch of guns when heard on videos taken from the ground and especially at a distance.

He was definitely not using sub-sonic rounds, so yes, the rounds themselves would make a whizzing or cracking sound, dependent upon a person’s proximity to said rounds (source: have been shot at on multiple occasions).

Another explanation for the perception of hearing multiple weapons: echoes. Several other high rise buildings in the immediate vicinity of the attack. Echoes of the gunshots reverberating off the other buildings would make it sound like a second weapon was firing, especially with the delay and slight distortion of sound.

Yep. Any recording of the event is going to kick up ally of sounds, but especially echo given the location. Clearly sounds like one guy shooting a bump stock type weapon.

The variation in the rate of fire within a single volley makes me fully believe this scenario. That first volley was one hell of a doozey though. If true, guy was definitely using a drum magazine. They generally have a pretty high failure rate, which might account for long pauses for trouble shooting/reloading/grabbing a different rifle.

bump stock type of weapon

This.

There was muzzle flashes coming from around the 10th floor or so. It’s on video too... we arn’t being told everything

It took hours to evacuate a theatre inside a casino that was already considered secure

Whatever actually happened, you don't want to just let a terrified crowd go and spread more panic. It is wise to let everyone calm down, make sure everyone has been basically attended to and properly interviewed. Also, great time to work on highly suggestable scared people in a closed room. I wonder what exactly was happening during that time and weather everyone was given a sedative of some sort.

Yeah, it makes sense to just keep them there. No point in sending them back out where there are people needing medical attention, people dead, crowds leaving.

Lots of unanswered questions in this rundown from the national review (archived) https://archive.fo/hvsPg.

Also the woman who gave advance warning/threat to audience and was supposedly escorted out by security.

I listened until about 2am as well. And I know exactly what you are referring to in regards to the gunfire heard on radio after the room was breached and the suspect was found. I thought maybe it was just noise from a helicopter, but I couldn't rewind.

I am trying to find if anyone recorded the scanner. I seem to remember them saying they had the guy in custody, right before they read that lady's name off the credit card. I need to hear a clip starting from where the breached the door.

The entire thing was so intense. Between that female officer frustrated because she couldn't determine if there was actually a shooter in her area, and all the different leads they were chasing, I couldn't make sense of what was actually happening. Pure chaos.

Suspect was fully accurate? Uh, as a former machine gunner in the Marine Corps, it does NOT take much accuracy when firing into a large target area at that distance. It was a large concert, with a lot of people in attendance over a large area. The guy wasn’t using a bolt action rifle to pick people off one by one.

What this guy supposedly did is what us machine gunners would call enfilade fire, which is when the cone of fire (where the rounds are impacting), coincide or nearly coincides with the long axis of the target. Basically meaning you’re entire “impact area” is completely encompassed with your target. It’s a machine gunner’s wet dream.

Had this guy had military training, especially in regards to proper employment of machine guns and automatic weapons (PICMDEEP), this could have been WAY worse than it is.

Supposedly? What's your opinion of the situation speaking as a military man?

I responded to your comment but I don’t think I replied directly. If not, my response is down there somewhere. Forgive me.

Another thing worth noting, there is a Marine Corps Warfighting Publication on Machine guns and Machine Gun Gunnery, or what we 0331’s affectionately call “The Machine Gun Bible.” It’s a roughly 400 page document, or training manual, that has anything and everything to do with machine guns and their appropriate employment. One could learn quite a bit by reading through it.

...it can easily be found on the internet with a simple google search too. It wouldn’t surprise me if Paddock read it, or something similar.

Thanks for this man. Great insight that I wouldn't have. If the shit ever hits the fan in North Korea, I'd hope to have a guy like you protecting my property

If that ever went down, and we were having to worry about the swing-sets and trampolines in our own backyard, something along the way has gone seriously wrong ha

Good trash devil dog

tterb0331 - as a former machine gunner, what'd you think of Adam Lanza's alleged shooting?

Honesty, I don’t know what to think of that one, and it’s been a while since I’ve heard the actual details. I think there’s a lot of holes in the story and some things don’t sound right, but it’s not too far fetched. Walking through an elementary school full of young children huddled into classrooms, scared shitless? It’s cowardly as fuck, but it’s easy to see how anybody, regardless of training, could easily kill a large number of helpless children with ease from damn near point blank range within a matter of minutes.

What specifically are you wanting my opinion on?

Could a 6 ft tall 112 lb guy carry a Bushmaster, a Glock 9mm, and a bunch of magazines and ammo?

Easily. Bushmaster, what, maybe 4lbs? Glock 9mm, somewhere near a pound? How many magazines and how much ammo? Doesn’t take a lot to do the amount of damage he inflicted.

100 rounds of 7.62x51mm weighs roughly 7lbs. 5.56 rounds, being smaller, weigh a little less. He could easily carry the rifle, the glock, and (8) 30 round magazines (240 rounds in total) and easily be under 30lbs worth of total extra weight. Manageable, especially if the magazines are spread loaded using an LBV or some other sort of equipment. Hell, if he was wearing cargo pants/shorts, that’s one mag in the rifle, one mag per pocket, and one mag left over just for the AR.

112lbs is pretty scrawny, yes, but 30lbs isn’t much, especially if you’ve psyched yourself up and have adrenaline flowing.

Great answer but an odd question. I'm not military but shoot for a hobby and anyone with just a basic understanding of guns can tell you that.

Thought it was going to be a much better follow up question lol.

Thanks very much.

The spaces between the sustained fire - was that about the length to change magazines or drum or belt or what ever he had? Would there be a difference in reload time with another person?

I honestly don’t know what happened in that room, and it’s hard to tell because I haven’t really come across a long enough video that contains audio over a long enough period of time.

But no, from what I have heard in the videos I’ve seen, the pauses between bursts/volleys was way too long, whether it be reloading, switching weapons, or trying to perform immediate/remedial action to clear or a jam or weapon malfunction with a single weapon.

Either this guy was in no hurry, and was just slowly and methodically taking each step in his plan, or he was having a lot of issues with weapons handling.

Single weapon, well trained, dropping and empty mag and inserting a new one should take less than a second (watch the movie Heat, Val Kilmer, man, that guy spent a lot of time practicing speed reloads, pretty damn good for an actor). Swapping weapons, that should be just as quick as quick as reloading a mag into a single weapon. Reloading a belt fell weapon? 2 seconds max if well trained and rehearsed and no fumbles with the belt (it happens). Immediate/remedial action to clear a jam or weapon malfunction... that varies dependent on the problem, but if it was severe enough, why not toss it aside and grab one of the many other weapons laying around?

I heard that the police knew where he was quickly because the smoke alarm went off in his room, is that plausible? Also maybe there were two holes because he thought a different position would be better than the first hole he made? Admittedly there doesnt seem much of a difference really.

Very, the amount of burnt carbon comming from those weapons would easily set one off. Plus if he fired a few hundred rounds off of one rifle and went to switch and set it down on carpet the carpet would start to burn since the barrel would be so hot.

Last question for you would be about the angles that the holes provided and if there would be difference enough to warranted one person making both. Thanks for your insights.

Not sure what angles of holes you're talking about, but if this helps. Ive personally fired fully automatic weapons, my duty weapon is a 3rnd burst m4. When firing on anything but single shot your accuracy goes out the window. So there would be rounds flying in every direction. Very hard to aim and control, but in this case against a crowd of people it'd be the best place to have a full auto. Dont let what I say deter you, this event is very weird. Im just stating what I know.

Im trying to understand the two holes made in the windows of the hotel that the shooter shot through. Maybe he shot through both and thats why there was more time between fire? Maybe he was displacing to avoid possible incoming fire? Or maybe he felt one angle that the hole provided was bettr than the other.

I mean multiple shooters is a theory. But honestly if i were to do something like this i wouldnt stick to one window. Obviously police responded fast youd be moving to make it harder for a counter sniper to get you. At least i would think that.

Could be switching to let the other gun cool down too.

Very plausible that they found him quickly via the fire alarm. Like the other guy said, the amount of smoke coming from firing that many rounds in an enclosed space would easily set the alarms off, and with high rises, I would imagine most fire detection systems would let management and the fire department know exactly where the detector is that initially went off. I haven’t heard all of the Sheriff’s updates, but somebody said he mentioned that it was a security guard and neighboring rooms that called in and that’s how they located him.

As for the two firing positions, I don’t think he moved to a second spot because he thought it was a better spot. This guy planned this pretty well. He most likely knew that the first gun would either overheat or malfunction, so he had a second firing positions already set up at a different location with a tripod or whatever type of fire support set up he had. When the first gun went down, he moved to the second set-up and recommenced his carnage.

People are speculating that he had an AK or other 7.62x39 clone with a bump fire stock and a 100 round drum. If that's the case, they are known to jam with some frequency and really are a pain in the ass to fix if you are not intimately familiar with them. I make no claims as to what he was using, but if he was indeed using what the rumor mill suggests, this is plausible.

Personally it sounded like a belt fed to me, until I heard the part where it was speeding up and slowing down. They don't do that.

I know nothing about guns, but I read somewhere he was using AR with a hand crank trigger or something. Again, I'm just relaying what I read so you might have better judgement on that.

With two vantage points I assumed he was switching between them and the delays were simply him walking over to the other window. He apparently had two gun platforms so I expect they were set up at each window. Opened up from one and then switched to the other to continue with direct aim at the crowd as they scattered.

Edit #1: As of 9:13pm, at least 59 dead, 527+ injured.

Don't you think the injured number is to high?

How many bullets did he fire?

You can probably credit many of those injuries to mass hysteria, trampling, etc.... “injured” does not necessarily mean injured by gunfire.

I am not so sure. Lets see.

Also, was he on any psychotropic drugs?

I can guarantee you that 500+ injuries were not caused by gunfire. Many of those were caused by second and third order effects.

And no idea. We really don’t know much about the guy. Could’ve been on illicit drugs, could’ve been on psychotropic drugs, could have just been a stone cold killer. Hopefully we will get answers soon enough.

You're right, could be drugs.

One of the crisis actors, Mike Cronk, said his friend who was standing next to him was shot in the chest 3 times. What do you suppose the chances are of that happening if someone was shooting from the 32nd floor window of a building 1000 feet away? Basically zero, right?

I don't think this is evidence of other or multiple shooters. I think that story line is planted to confuse people and distract them from the fact that the event was a staged hoax.

Highly unlikely. What I think is more probable is that his recollection of events don’t quite match up with reality. He might believe that’s what he saw, but I would chalk that up to a “fog of war” type thing. You can have 20 different people there as witnesses, and afterwards you might hear 2 different stories.

People also keep saying multiple shooters and I'm not sold. I'm trained on identifying number of shooters, distance and location just by sound (assume the Marines teach it to you too. Regardless you learn fast downrange) I can shoot a saw with a grip and collapsable stock from my shoulder accurately. I can easily hit a crowd of people just letting it rock and roll.

But what the average person can't do is differentiate between an echo and a primary source of fire.hell they have trouble differentiating the crack of a bullet going by with the primary source of fire.

I simply don't think there's a shred of evidence to suggest multiple shooters

Agreed. The echoes are amplified to an even higher degree in an urban environment, which makes things rather complicated.

We had the displeasure of trying to figure out which murder hole in which compound incoming fire was coming from. The better guys would sit back a few feet from the hole so you wouldn’t be able to see the smoke, and unless they were shooting directly at you, you wouldn’t be able to see the muzzle flash. Made locating the source of incoming rounds difficult.

Would you say the same from watching this video?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qpcqS6ZiCuw

Makes me think of the Dallas active shooter and how they thought their was multiple shooters as well, makes sense why it took so long to find him too. Are police not trained as the Marines are trained in the number of shooters and the sound of a bullet going by?

If you you don't mind, take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfcJ82E3uxI

I am not trained in firearms or anything, but that video clearly shows two different shooters. One is closer and the other is farther away. The reason i say this is because in the beginning you can hear the loud close fire, followed by what seems to be an echo. The a few seconds later you hear more echo, but it's longer than the original fire. Then again a few seconds after the distance shots reign for longer than before. Then again you hear the close up fire.

In all seriousness, I'd be curious to hear your way worse estimate of what the body count might have been. A kill for every few rounds? Less? More?

Easily could’ve been anywhere between 100-200 dead if the killer had basic training in machine gun employment. During the first volley of two, all of the victims are packed in pretty tight and clueless as to what was going on. Most impacts during that timeframe would’ve been to a person’s upper torso or head, greatly increasing the chances of a wound being fatal.

After people started hunkering down like you see in a lot of the videos could’ve also been quite devastating had this guy been well trained. At that range, with proper employment, it would be pretty easy to keep your beaten zone (area of impact) within a 5 foot diameter. Several controlled bursts into the various huddled groups would’ve increased the fatality rate greatly.

Best method of employment for a light or medium machine gun would be with a 2 man team, in the probe, using a tripod and T&E, with sandbags or something similar providing added support to the legs of the tripod. The second man would be halfway laying on top of the gunner to provide extra support and control of recoil, and can also assist with reloading, performing immediate/remedial action in the event of a malfunction, and can also help coordinate the fire and make adjustments after viewing the impacts.

Would look somewhat like this sans the sandbags

So in your expert opinion, you'd say that he was maybe even a little sloppy with how it was carried out? Someone who had any kind of practice could have been way more devastating?

Definitely. I would say his planning was pretty damned good. His execution in regards to his shooting could’ve used some work. Had the shooter been somebody with a lot more experience shooting a fully automatic (or rifles modified with bump fire stocks), the death toll could’ve been much higher.

I think a lot doesn't add up, but from what you're saying it sound like Paddock was the shooter, and I'd assume he did it himself. You would then think multiple inexperienced shooters, shooting together would have done way more damage as well.?

Definitely

Thanks man - yeah this whole thing doesn't add up. But the whole staged/patsy angle seems even more far fetched.

From what I’ve seen and heard, I’m pretty confident this guy did it, and did it alone. I could be wrong, but that’s just my opinion.

I just want to know why? Why did he do it? I want to see a manifesto or something. That’s the only thing that has me really curious.

I agree - the lack of motivation is troubling.

Those bullets from that range would have been ultra nasty.

I kind of hope you're posting from a bunker right now. I would not want to be the person pointing out inconsistencies with snipers fresh in the area.

On the tapes you can definitely hear two guns or more being used.

We could learn a lot from time stamping police scanner audio and transcribing it into text.

It was a real shit show out there, and chaos spreads like wildfire. To make any sense of what really happened will take some effort. I can't find a copy of the police scanner recording that shows the time.

So how does one get 18 or 19 long guns plus ammo into a vegas hotel room unnoticed?

Plus this is Vegas, countless video cameras had to capture him.

He had something like 10 suitcases in the room and had been checked in since the 28th. He had some time to get things into the hotel without causing too much suspicion.

He could throw 6+ rifles in a suit bag and walk right through the lobby and nobody would have an idea.

Suitcase?

Maybe had a huge gambling debt. They cleared him of it and used his name to put him witness protection in order to carry out attack.

I don't understand it, never will. This is conspiracy can't what if all day.

Did anyone else see the LinkedIn profile that his GF worked at the Casino?

dead link?

Looks like it was against Imgur policy.

I know this is pretty gruesome to hear, but there is a reason it sounds like multiple gunmen and additional pops between shots. I live in rural GA. Aka, we do a lot of hunting. One of the first things you will learn when hearing someone close by (within about 1000 yards) shoot a deer or other large game is there is a distinct "thump-boom" when a round hits. This happens bc the bullet it traveling faster than the speed of sound and you are actually hearing it hit meat before you are hearing it leave the rifle. It's terrible, but having listened to quite a few videos, I only heard 1 shooter. That being said, he was also cranking out 30-50 rounds in under 10 seconds. (Seems like I heard a gun or type of magazine change)

I have full confidence in the Las Vegas PD to help shed some light on this. They're some of the best when it comes to solving high-profile shootings.

RIP Pac...

This is the post I came for.

U/watmanwat - I don't know if anyone has asked you yet, but are you a Russian? Are you trying to send out false info to mess with us?

Maybe he was Dual Weilding and had the speed of flash.

Hey OP. I have a slight favor to ask you. There's a video showing gunfire from one of the lower floors. Is there any way you can verify another broken window around the 4th floor?

I would download that video asap.

If this was done by pros I'm pretty sure they could temporarily remove and replace a window.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMrm1xUJ40&t=865s

we are so lucky all the Elgin treason troops are here to correct our lack of gun knowledge.

fake events like this really brings them out of the woodwork.

Truly a great post.

I listened to the scanner recordings and your summary is very good.

It was Gate 7 and that shot is way more than 320 ft.

Rumour that the exits were blocked, is this true?

A lot of first-hand accounts that I've been hearing talked about people trying to go back the way they came in because that's all they knew, which was the entrance right on the strip and put people closer to the hotel. I haven't heard anything about exits being blocked though.

The following video shows muzzle flare coming from what appears to be like a 24th floor towards the middle of the hotel, not near the edge of the hotel with the busted windows. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R6a78gZNT84&feature=share

I’ve been searching for this video. Thank you.

I think it's plausible that if this was a false flag the perpetrators would have been able to temporarily remove and replace a window. The lights are in sync with the gunfire. Not saying I know this is what happened but if you're talking about a sophisticated government sponsored operation, it's not that far fetched to imagine them doing this with ease.

It can't be a reflection as videos at different angles show the same thing

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kCTt2NAuhA&feature=youtu.be

Here's a video of a news broadcast clearly showing the light still going off. It's a strobe light inside the hotel, police on scanners also confirmed it was a strobe light. This is Vegas we are talking about here, flashing lights are common.

Can't those windows be opened the regular way?

no

It is definitely a strobe light. There are multiple videos of it flashing when no firing was happening and flashing doesn't match rate of fire. A fully automatic weapon would flash ten times or more a second. It would just appear to be a flickering bright light.

Hey I am a conspiracy theorist! I am trying to connect the dots to the FOP

If only it was a rap music festival.... then we would know for sure it was cops....

I believe nothing the gov't or MSM tell me......

Suspect was fully accurate firing from 320 feet up across a street from a casino

It's 320 feet if he was firing straight down. My guess is his targets were ~250 yards away. It's pretty hard to shoot 500 people even if there is a crowd that far away. I would imagine the floor of his hotel room would be covered in shell casings. You would guest in adjacent rooms above, below, and next to him would have called in to report the gunfire.

Couple important things to note:

• Not all 527 injuries are gunshot related. A lot are from trying to jump fences, being tramped, etc.

• There are a lot of calls that came in to report this, I would not be surprised if there were some from came from people in the rooms above and below him.

They "found" him dead? I heard at first that the cops shot him..

When the door was breached, the gunman got a shot off at one of the officers and shot him in the leg.

I'm reading he was "found dead" by the police in the OP, so it seems something is conflicting somewhere.

That was what was initially reported, the Sheriff stated what I said in their second to last press conference of the night

How does a tidbit like that change?

Timeline to my knowledge:

• Officers locate shooter, attempt to engage

• One officer is shot in the leg

• Officers stand down, SWAT comes in

• SWAT finds gunman dead from self-inflicted gunshot wound

Thats what is crazy. There have been reports of police being shot in or around the hotel room, plus I noticed the police chief use the word "engaged" with the subject. How can you engage a dead guy?

Hotel security were the first to arrive on floor 32. Shooter exited room and shot at them, hitting one guard in the leg. Security then retreats to the elevator to await SWAT.

When SWAT arrived they found the shooter dead from self inflicted gunshot.

That is the official narrative. Why would the shooter go through all the trouble of setting up cameras for surveillance, engage the first responders and then just decide not to bother anymore?

Yea, no engaging the dead guy. Even if lots of things aren't clear right after something happens, the one thing you'd think they'd get right is whether or not the dude was dead when they walked in.

His father was on FBIs most wanted. This son may have been seen a candidate at the time for MKULTRA. They activated him while he was on vacation. Using his programming forwarding gun restriction agendas and ultimately having no trace to anyone.

The most revealing evidence is the cameras setup and the two broken windows, surely the casino has video proof!

This. It was like I was hearing a completely different record of events on the scanner compared to what what on the news. Many things that have not been addressed or even considered in the "official report":

• reports of a shots fired from the gate 7 at the festival. (Theres video showing shots firing from the mandalay bay and much louder shots that sound much closer. The video looks like its near a exit at the festival)

• reports of a someone shot at nyny (could have just been someone from the festival)

• the scanner reports say there were shots from the 19th(?) and 32nd floor

• reports of police chasing a man and woman in the casino(could just be hysteria)

• reports of a gray(or black?) car speeding away from the mandalay bay casino?

• reports of people running on the runway at the airport?

• eyewitness on the news claiming a woman was in the crowd at the concert saying everyone was going to die. This was 45 mins before the shooting started(according to her)

• another eyewitness claiming there were shooters on the festival grounds shooting and herding people away from the exits.

So thats a lot of stuff. Some seems easily attributed to hysteria and incorrect recollection, but some really makes you go hmm?

The news is making a big deal about how they cant find a motive yet and that he acted alone, but what about all these abnormalities that clash with the official story?

I saw a comment somewhere today...I think in the Vegas sub, where the OP's sister was one of those people running on the tarmac. Let me see if I can find a link for you.

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cool thanks. Did she mention why?

What people need to realize also is that the police,fbi,cia,etc etc won't tell the mass media certain things that are "still on going" as in they have a lead on someone but dont want to give up too much info for fear of the suspect figuring it out via coms tv etc or even in media Briefs. Hell if anything saves you more lives. Those are my thoughts....

Here is where it does NOT add up to me. As soon as I turned on the news I heard gunshots(around 10:20-10:25) I wish I would have recorded it. Around 10:30pm they found the shooter dead in his room. They say it's a lone wolf act but in NUMEROUS VIDEOS you can hear two different guns firing at the same time. Not only that, but the weapons they found in his room were assault rifles. 10 of them, thousands of rounds of ammo. Here's where I started to think something was wrong. Over the scanner, me and my mom VERY CLEARLY heard a 4 bullet burst. Then two different officers asked, "Shots fired?" Silence, 2 more burst of fully automatic fire, and another officer, "Shots fired??". There was about a minute of radio static then resumed back to the normal strike team placement etc. Here's the kicker: The SWAT had already found the suspect dead in his room. I do not have an accurate timeline on this, actually, I just remembered. This had to be before 11:00pm because that's when the sheriff did the first interview with the news and it was before that.

I've been saying this to people all day. I heard the exact same thing whilst listening with my SO. Definitely happened yet no mention today of it. and it was definitely after they'd breached the room on 32nd floor and said "1 suspect down".

Bizarre and a half. There is a recording on this sub but it stops before the breach.

This has Mossad written all over it. This is their standard operating procedure.

As soon as I turned on the news I heard gunshots(around 10:20-10:25) I wish I would have recorded it. Around 10:30pm they found the shooter dead in his room.

Shooting started at ~10:08, police didn't enter the guy's room until 11:20. I listened to the police scanners too -- there's recordings of them if you want to actually post them.

NUMEROUS VIDEOS you can hear two different guns firing at the same time.

Nope, 2 cracks per shot. First is the bullet breaking the sound barrier, second is actual sound of the round being fired from the gun.

The suspect had no experience, background, or anything to do with weapons/military

He worked for the weapons manufacturer that merged with Lockheed Martin. The guy literally made military grade weapons for a living.

Suspect was fully accurate firing from 320 feet up across a street from a casino

According to firearms experts, with nearly 30,000 people packed into a 2 acre area, just spraying the area with gunfire would result in every 3rd shot hitting someone -- no aiming even needed. See article that's up on the Guardian's website.

Victims found in New York New York, Mandalay Bay, Route 91, and Aria but shots fired only at Mandalay Bay

High-powered rifle rounds can easily travel well over a mile at sea level. NY NY is about 2500-3000 feet away from Mandalay Bay, Aria about a mile away, Route 91 is right next door.

Your first post sucks.

Remember just a few weeks ago NFL star Michael Bennet was taken down by gunpoint because there was supposedly an active shooter event at the Mayweather McGregor fight. I believe that was a false flag lead up to this false flag. Someone look into that and what happened yesterday to see if there's any correlation

Pretty weird how Tom Petty Dead/ Not Dead narrative was used also to distract people.

Lol

Some musician dying doesn't distract people from the worst shooting in America's history.

I heard the hotel fire alarm went off in his room from all the shooting. Perhaps the second window was broken to blow smoke away?

It was initially reported that the smoke detectors helped locate the room he was in, but police said that was inaccurate.

I guess “supposedly” was the wrong word to use unless you don’t believe the narrative. From my experience, this was well planned and calculated for his method of employment.

I’ve said it before in previous comments, and I’ll say again, he used what we call “enfilade fire,” which is a machine gunners wet dream. His range, his elevation, his angle of fire on the target. They were ideal for machine gun employment. I don’t know if I should be surprised or not. He had no military background, but honestly if you google “Machinegun employment” you could probably learn quite a bit. Enfilade fire and grazing fire are the most optimal methods of employment.

Was he trained? No. But knowing the basic principles of employment, especially on such a “prime” target, you didn’t really have to be trained in the physical sense. Had he been trained, he could’ve easily killed 2 or 3 times as many people.

In this scenario, and his employment, the difference of affect between a trained and an untrained individual was negligible. There’s no doubting this guy created a mass amount of damage. The difference of “effect” between an untrained and trained individual could’ve been pretty stark.

9/11/01 was the world trade centers. 10/01 was route 91 = 9/11/01 Not a coincidence!

Reach is a toothbrush.

Umm wouldn't that then be 91/10/01 .... I think you dropped one of the straws you were clutching.

http://yournewswire.com/las-vegas-video-multiple-shootes/. Multiple shooters

this website is suspect as fuck. i wouldn't rely on it for accurate anything.

Passing it along from Facebook, of all places

That’s a big no. That site is shit.

I noticed from the aerial shot this music festival was in front of the Luxor hotel, a massive Pyramid and an Obelisk monument, both highly symbolic for a certain funny handshake 'secret society'. I read the shooter was wealthy, I wonder if he has any connections?

Did you record this?

Something I noticed. Something subtle. They were posting daytime pictures of the hotel with windows blown out before it was even daylight in the midwest!!

the sun rises between 530 or 6 if that means anything to you.

Yeah in central time zone which is where I was when I was seeing these daytime pictures at maybe 615. Also its 630 now and its still dark af

what is the purpose though? What is the goal of all of this? Why? What are the motives???

To distract Americans from the fucked up shit our government/president was starting to catch some heat for in recent days. Or to put more fear into the hearts of Americans as a means of keeping us compliant and complacent.

To spread fear.

To not give ISIS more glory and attention. They clearly did this and killed the guy in his suite/room and set up all the camera systems and 8-10 assault weapons with thousands of bullets and clips.

They want to go "oh it wasn't ISIS forget about those guys", hoping ISIS will go "shiiiit no one takes us seriously anymore, these attacks aren't working".

I am an all purpose disbeliever

WHY 23 weapons,that seems like overkill to sell that he was crazed? As if the act itself was not enough.

I wouldn't be surprised if "they" shot the poor unsuspecting suspect and used him as a scapegoat.

Amazing. Thanks for posting this. What if this guy's house was broken into and they planted the guns and tied him up in his hotel room while 2 gunmen did the shooting, then they shot the guy and left before police came.

It happened on floor 32. 32 is a number we should be looking at more closely.

People need to understand that in this scenario one round fired has 3 very distinct sounds. First is the crack of the bullet breaking the sound barrier, second is the report of the gunpowder erupting, and the third is bullet impact on solid ground. Plus if you add the echoing effect from the surrounding buildings with the cellphone quality video it can definitely be interpreted by multiple shooters firing at once.

How does the sound generated in the bolt of the rifle 500 something yards away arrive before the sound of a nearly missed bullet impact for someone on the ground?

It doesn't!

Oh I assumed you were listing those sounds in chronological order, forgive my snark.

Bill Nye needs to provide an alibi right now

To answer why to the "two windows" part is because it was such a large area that the multiple vantage points gave you access to people escaping, and because he had tables with the 19 weapons setup. Basically it was faster to move from one table with half the weapons laying around than to move all the weapons. Far as sounds it was likely echoing combined with the fact they weren't designed automatics, but converted through various methods, that's why the cycle speed was inconstant.

Here is another video someone caught. Seems they took it while driving by. Shows muzzle flash from 4th floor.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MAGAPILL/status/915049733332148224/video/1

This is very interesting.

Debunked as a strobe apparently.

What? strobe light? hahahaha not

There's footage in this thread further up that has a report talking after everything was over and that same strobe is flashing in the background. I didn't believe anyone until I saw that video.

Can you link it please?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kCTt2NAuhA&feature=youtu.be

I can't argue with this... It proves the shooter wasn't shooting from the 4th floor.. it was indeed 32nd floor.. but it doesn't prove it wasn't more than one shooter at the place..

Strobe light as many have pointed out.

Edit #1: As of 9:13pm, at least 59 dead, 527+ injured.

How many bullets did he fire?

Just to add to local companies doing good, Allegiant Air is offering free flights for victims and family, and no change fees for people that want to adjust their tickets.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2oQ65zi-Q

relevant

I was listening to the scanner feed, I definitely heard automatic gunfire over the scanner, right around 12:00 Pacific, after the gunman had died. Immediately afterwards there were reports of shots fired at The Bellagio. Afterwards, when it was reported that there was only one shooter, I assumed maybe earlier audio of the gunshots somehow got played over the scanner. Now I have my doubts. TL:DR : Heard shots on scanner after the shooter was killed.

You ever hear of sound waves my dude? lmao

My favorite transformer

There is video of shots coming from the 4th floor

they said is a strobe light https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMrm1xUJ40&t=865s

https://youtu.be/IdoQq5bn7b4

Looks more like gunshots to me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T467I005v10

4th floor shots, 2 separate videos.

Are there any photos of this floor of the Mandalay Bay Hotel the next day? Can we see broken windows from other possible shooter positions?

One of the things that puzzles me is that this guy was 64, Tom Petty passed today at 66. A 64 year old guy who didn't look too healthy in several pictures was able to load his vehicle with gear including weapons & ammo which are heavy then unload at the hotel prepare and set up and still have enough energy & rage to move from window to window to execute his plan.

This is also a guy with no military experience. Shooting is one thing but real world situations are another and that includes clearing stoppages & jams in action with proficiency, finding and using onsite firing positions and firing with repetition which can be hard on the body. The military trains with repetition. I don't see a few shooting classes or some range time making this guy that proficient a soldier.

The second or third shooter could be the different weapons and 2nd window on the side of the room. But over lapping fire with different sounding weapons is another.

Also explosives/materials found in his home, car and/or room are not being talked about too much. They get a mention but doesn't seem to be raising eyebrows.

Alot of issues don't make this narrative a clean one.

I don't know anything at all about guns but I think there were a lot of guns in the room so that the perpetrator didn't have to waste time reloading between spraying the crowd.

I don't know what to believe regarding Paddock being the shooter or not, just my .02 on why there were so many guns found.

dude had probably been dead in that room for hours.

For me what makes it the most ominous is no background, no mental health issues, no ties to hate groups, nothing. A good guy. And then the girlfriend who was there but not there? What if she was a hostage? What if he was told to carry bags of "something" inside the hotel or else the girlfriend would be murdered?

bear in mind >300 of the 527+ injured were stampede injuries.

I live in vegas my self (henderson actually) And I completely agree this is definitely a sketchy situation there's no way it was on person cause there's even a video where for about a split second you can see muzzle flashes coming from the 12th or 13th floor. Definitely going to stir up some questions

Also monitored LVMP scanner from about 10:30 p.m. Heard suspect was "down," then heard other officers whispering while going up staircases to floor, later heard suspect both "down" and "in custody." After this, there were a dozen or more reports of other shooters in every hotel in the area: Tropicana, Bellagio, NY NY, Paris, etc. There was a Lexus SUV left at the north valet entrance of the Luxor: it appeared to have an IED with wires hanging to the ground beneath the car. Medics were supposedly fired upon at a triage area. Dispatch began openly discussing these phantom shooters as "diversions." A strike team (LVMP term) would clear a hotel/casino, and as soon as they left an "eyewitness report" of a shooter (often a white male with black t-shirt and "long rifle") would be reported. At one point there were women (three, I think) described as suspects fleeing the scene.

This kind of chaos and mistaken information is common in a big, ongoing crisis. But I did hear those extra shots, as OP mentioned, long after shooter was confirmed "down."

What scanner do you use?

They say it's a lone wolf act but in NUMEROUS VIDEOS you can hear two different guns firing at the same time

You understand what an echo is right? Heard enough full auto weapons fire in my life to be able to identify that what you're saying simply isn't true.

Are guys done talking out of your ass acting like you know what was going on? These comments man lol.

Man you must have some kind of autism. You REALLY just want to not believe that this happened. It wasn't two shooters. Sound echoes off of a place where there's a fuckton of buildings. The high popping sound was the sound of the bullets going supersonic, and the muffled sound as the sound of the gunpowder exploding.

Stop fucking grasping at straws. Everything you said is EASILY disprovable.

Conjecture and speculation

Conjecture and speculation everywhere

Yeah, it's probably just better to let the authorities tell us what to think, isn't it? After all, I'm sure they only have our best interests at heart.

What happened to the reports of the 3 AMA’s (Asian male armed I think) that police were reporting on the scanner?

And what about the videos of the 4th floor shooter? There’s at least 15 different videos of this from all different angles? It’s so obvious it’s a gun firing as well, not a strobe light.

https://www.reddit.com/r/vegas/comments/73qwgq/gunshots_downtown_right_now/

somebody had a little talk w this kid about reporting the "3 shooter" scenario to all of reddit

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Unless you can post a video of 2 seperate guns firing at the same time it all sounds like bull to me. I've been listening to the radio & watching almost every phone video twitted on twitter and none of it sounded like there was 2 weapon firing at the same time.

Even though most of the video was filmed around Mandalay bay if there was another weapon firing it should still be audible from across the city.

This is probably going to give my account away, it at this point social media is the lowest priority. I was on the 30th floor of the Mandalay when this started. There was no overlapping gunshots, just continuous rapid fire, then single shots from a different cali er rifle then back to full auto and it felt like the gun shots just kept going on and on and on. My timeline is blurred at this point but I heard a single pop go off sometime afterwards. I called my co-worker who was 1 floor below me to see if he heard it too. I thought the shooter was in the room next to me bc the sound of the shots vibrated my walls. We both assumed that the gunman shot himself with the single pop. Then about 20 minutes later there was 2 explosions. I thought a bomb had gone off but it was later perceived that police used some kind of flash/concussion grenade or door-busting grenade. I received a call from LVPD to tell me they got the shooter shortly after (I had called 911 earlier).

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/141096258/#141100963

https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/141096258/#141100963

Please add context to this.

The single shot could have been the security guard being shot

That's what I'm thinking.

I was actually just about to post something like this. I have a friend who lives in Vegas and it was relayed to me last night that there were reports of multiple shooters in multiple casinos and locations. Also, the airport was shut down (don't know about currently). Why would they shut down the airport unless there was a flight risk or the possibility of attacks on planes if they are so sure he was a "lone wolf"?

Reports of multiple shooters on multiple locations happens pretty often in situations like this. People panic. The flights were grounded until it was confirmed it wasn't some large scale terrorist attack on the city. It wasn't confirmed that he was a lone wolf until long after he was dead.

Multiple shooters https://video-dft4-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/22229616_1464196766969065_8040435793249959936_n.mp4?efg=eyJybHIiOjUzNCwicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoic3ZlX3NkIn0%3D&oh=cdafea5db752a5531d8cdf0b47b43833&oe=59D394A4

The only question I have, is if there was a shooter on the 4th floor, how is the window not shot out? Like the 32nd floor? None of those windows at Mandalay bay open.

agree. we can assume that we are being lied to, now we need to know why. my first working assumption will be that isis did it

Something I want more information on is that in multiple different videos on the shooting, you can see the flash of a muzzle with each shot down on the maybe 10th-15th floor. If the shooter was found on 32nd floor, what were all those flashes? Here’s a link to what I’m referring to. Sorry if it doesn’t work, I’m at work now and on mobile. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-dkZN28oYO4

Another part that doesn't add up is the fact that they delayed evacuating the Michael Jackson theatre for a few hours. If the police allowed MEDICAL to respond inside Mandalay Bay, that means they have the scene secure.

Dude. 1,000 people take up a lot of space. If you send them out into the world they get in the way of ambulances & police cars.

That reason is, incidentally, why they didn't evacuate the second tower on 9/11. They'd done so for the '93 bombing and it was a major clusterfuck.

Re: Accuracy. If you bipod or tripod a weapon, it's stability and accuracy go way, especially while firing fully automatic. The difference is especially stark from trying to fire same weapon from hip, off hand, or kneeling.

Also; how accurate do you have to be shooting into 20-30,000 people?

Re: Accuracy. If you bipod or tripod a weapon, it's stability and accuracy go way, especially while firing fully automatic. The difference is especially stark from trying to fire same weapon from hip, off hand, or kneeling.

To add to this; while I'm not really a gun nut, someone on Zero Hedge mentioned that the gun used was a belt-fed M60. Apparently the BATF gets very excited if civilians have those unmodified; you're only allowed to have them in semi-auto mode. This makes sense, because the gunfire I heard in the vids I've listened to sounded like four round bursts with small intervals; and I had thought the definition of full-auto was that you could essentially just hold down on the trigger until you either run out of ammo or the barrel melts, whichever comes first.

I'm going to assume that something as powerful as an M60 has an exceptionally nasty recoil, which would require stabilisation. I have no idea about real life, but in the computer games I've played at least, you generally want to carry both a sniper rifle and an assault rifle, because assault rifles are not good for long range work.

If I had to guess, I'm assuming that the point of this was not a precision hit against specific intended targets. The point was just to rain down a heap of very high callibre rounds hitting random people at long vertical range, and scare the crap out of everyone there, and subsequently those who heard about it.

I also can't see someone whose brother claimed they had no interest in guns, using a heavy assault rifle; and especially not attempting to use one at long range. The M60, again, also is not an easy weapon to get, legally.

So there's definitely something fishy about this.

Are the guns all registered?

No idea.

What make you think guns are registered?

You think the multiple shooter scenario could have been just an echo from the three buildings around the courtyard? Seems plausible.

I shake my head when I see Clinton spewing anti gun and anti NRA rhetoric in fucking tweets hours after the shooting. Hillary Clinton has no fucking sympathy or empathy or goddamn conscience. Right away blaming "silencers" and "full auto assault rifles". It's clear as day this was set up to sway public opinion on gun control. Nevada is a gun toting state, and if they can make a negative impact there, the government is one step closer to getting "right wing gun enthusiasts" on their side and banning guns and putting their foot down on the Right To Bear Arms.

I'm not even American and can see this is their plan.

Thank you for posting this, there always seems to be something off with these mass shootings that doesn't sit right with me. I seen video clips of what looks like shots being fired from the 12th floor as well as the floor the media knows about.. I find it interesting to how trusting we are of what police say happened, for all we know there could have been two shooters and police won't tell us their mia

1. I don’t believe he killed himself.
   
2. I don’t trust/believe his brother a. I find it REAL suspicious that his brother claims there were no ties, no indication of association, no bad talk of anything.
3. I find the information about his wife being out of the country suspicious. a. At one-point yesterday, somewhere online, I read where she warned that everyone was going to die. Could have been fake news.
4. The father of Las Vegas madman Stephen Paddock was a “psychopath” himself — a bank robber who escaped federal prison in the late 1960s and landed on the FBI’s most-wanted list, according to reports.
5. Paddock’s dad was serial felon Benjamin Hoskins Paddock

To your point #3, she wasn't at the concert and was definitely out of the country, but I find the timing odd.

I hear the same thing on NPR about a lady walking through the crowd before the shooting and telling people they all were going to die.

Just thought of a quick and relatively cheap way to prevent this type of attack from happening again in Vegas: we all know Vegas hotels’ windows don’t open, so install breach sensors on the glass that would quickly be triggered when the window is broken open. This obviously won’t work at many hotels outside of Vegas, but at least the city would have another line of defense against a copycat style attack.

This video that I will link to below is the long version of the cab drivers 4th floor capture. From the very beginning the sound seems right over her head. Then the sound is far away. At first I thought echo, but as the video goes on, you can tell their is a difference. Lots of interesting things she innocently caught in this video actually. Also proves the shooting lasted more than 4 minutes. Worth the watch

https://streamable.com/pktqv

Yes I have heard about the strobe myself, but if you watch this video, a different one with different view, you can clearly see the "Strobe" stops with the firing. so it strobes fast while firing and then nothing, then strobes fast again with the firing. shrug, I dunno what to think, but this does show that. See what you think. Not sure how they got this angle though

https://www.facebook.com/U.SUltimateWeapons/videos/1720653714674283/?hc_ref=ARSyak0p4mOGIAEvrXfzjTaiKJvcxov_X8cg6Q6rJSq7yE6L8-CrXG1sEZ1Db9OJVJs

As to the shooter's accuracy, he was shooting fish in a barrel who didn't see it coming. If you fire into a crowd of shoulder to shoulder people it's probably pretty hard to miss.

Yeah but also no. It isn't as easy as people are claiming..

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-the-trigonometry-of-terror-why-the-las-1507085772-htmlstory.html

This may have already been mentioned but the woman at the concert that was telling people they were all going to die 45 minutes before?

https://youtu.be/gAL-o5lIaxQ

Woman warned las vegas - keywords

yes I found that strange too, I was also someone dubious, but only because it hit the news really fast, and we all know how that tends to go when that happens. Wouldn't be surprised if the girl that was telling the story didn't pop up somewhere else as a crisis actor. Not saying she is and it didn't happen, but stranger things have happened, so curious yes indeed

My theory goes along the lines of the first Jack Reacher movie.

He was coerced to assassinate a specific target. Couldn't make it look like a hit or the jig is up and they [do bad things to his family?]... so he makes it look like a massacre. Everyone else is collateral damage.

The fact that no one is questioning this guy's ability to use a high powered fully automatic rifle from 32 floors up and across the street and being able to hit anything at all is beyond me. The kind of fire power required to be even remotely accurate would throw any inexperienced shooter off. Not to mention, if his breaks in firing were to reload, he was damn good at reloading.

My heart breaks for all the people at that concert and for the victims but this story absolutely does not add up. This kind of attack would have to be pulled off by a trained military shooter.

They say it's a lone wolf act but in NUMEROUS VIDEOS you can hear two different guns firing at the same time.

I've heard plenty of explanations that you a hearing the gun's echo off of other buildings, which is why it sounds like two guns. This one is easy for you to prove, there are plenty of videos out there, as you already have found one, analyze the audio to see if the second gun is not just a copy of the first.

The SWAT had already found the suspect dead in his room. I do not have an accurate timeline on this, actually, I just remembered.

So you don't have a timeline on this and you have a couple of cops on the scanner not sure if shots are being fired. This isn't even worth mentioning.

There's also the suspect.

I hate this point. This is a person you know nothing about. You've never met him, certainly not just before the shooting. You have no idea where he was in his life or what was going on. Saying he is not acting like you would expect him to act makes zero sense.

why was there such a confusing hiatus on evacuating that Michael Jackson theatre?

If it was some conspiracy, you think they would handle these detail's pretty well. If it was a local police force dealing with something they never had before, it would make sense that it wouldn't be done perfectly. There is a much simpler explanation here.

Why did the shooter need to break two different windows in two adjacent rooms at Mandalay Bay to shoot at one target? If the concert had a view, why break the second one to shoot from?

Supposedly he had two tripods. Maybe he set one gun up at one window and one at the other.

The suspect had no experience, background, or anything to do with weapons/military

Speculation. You know nothing about this guy.

Suspect was fully accurate firing from 320 feet up across a street from a casino

He was shooting into a crowd of 22000 people. You aim at the middle, and you'll hit people. There is no need for almost any accuracy, let alone a requirement to be "fully accurate."

Victims found in New York New York, Mandalay Bay, Route 91, and Aria but shots fired only at Mandalay Bay

You say above in your post that there were shootings there, then you have the cops saying that there were reports of shootings there, but they didn't find anything. Where is the evidence of thees victims?

Thanks for the story, I don't know if they use VOX radio function, but you shouldn't be hearing any shots fired over the scanner unless the user had the radio keyed up. But, if you were so close you could hear the bursts I take back my comment.

Theory has been debunked. Looks like strobe light for sure. Light still going hours after shooting.

https://mobile.twitter.com/GingerMcQueen/status/915056578985955330

As for "overlapping gunfire" I offer the theory that this is just acoustic echoing. He's shooting in a metro area where there are tall buildings made of glass, and sound waves bounce around like crazy. Depending on where you're standing, it could sound like overlapping gunfire. If you listen closer, it sounds like there's the initial gunfire, then an equally as long secondary sound of gunfire. To me, that's an echo.

The only reason I bring this up is because I play snare drum, and have experienced this while marching through a city. The taller buildings bounce the sound of my snare back to me, and the echo sounds the same, albeit softer...just like this

Oceans 11 SWAT theory:

Guys broke into that room earlier that day and killed the "suspect". They left wearing SWAT gear on the way out, Oceans 11 style and even were patched into the radio.

I agree, things don't seem to add up. From watching videos, there clearly is at least a second shooter. Also I find it odd that no one has been able to figure out a motive for the shooting. Stephen's background is pretty much clean. Something is being covered up. Foreign agents or domestic conspiracy?

I was born and raised in this city. I am certain there was multiple shooters. It might be worth mentioning that Zach Bagan Haunted Mansion opened that day too.. which was postponed.. https://www.reviewjournal.com/entertainment/zak-bagans-haunted-museum-presents-creepy-collection-in-october/

Heard this from a cop friend who knows some of the first responders in the venue as it happened: Information given to the public is often limited for investigative reasons. Investigators don't want to tip their hand and let the 'bad guys' know they're on to them, etc. If you were listening in real time, you'd know that there were many many other reports of suspects, several other parties arrested, and other facts and details that haven't been expressed in the public narrative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI8fawQd2aE

@ 13:46 of video

Look between the heads of the 2 people standing, there is clear muzzle flare from a floor MUCH lower than the 32nd. I have read there is footage of shots from the 4th floor, perhaps this is it? Didn't find original footage.

Also the "Part 3 edit footage" https://streamable.com/pktqv This has audio of shots coming from different distances, could be echo I suppose, but did not seem like it. All of these different clips need to be synced up.

I was just in Vegas in April - and everything is on camera. There should be a ton of footage - exciting stuff like swat moving in and him bringing bags in, but also mundane shit like tipping the valet, getting coffee, sipping drinks in the casino, eating dinner etc. It's curious that we haven't been seeing this but they also aren't looking for him so maybe there is no reason to release it. We live to fight terrorists - I think if they could, they would blame it on someone brown. The whole story is strange. The way it was carried out, the supposed perpetrator, the lack of firm details, the whole thing is off. I just don't think you could have multiple shooters from multiple locations without anyone getting some firm proof. All we have is grainy video - the echo of the gun and the constant flashing lights of Vegas are misleading I think.

I'm going to address the apparent sound of multiple guns firing simultaneously. Guns are loud, very loud. And Mandalay Bay has an interesting shape that is conducive to echoing. There were also other buildings surrounding the area that sound waves could bounce off of. It is entirely possible that the impression of multiple simultaneous bursts, was nothing more than the echoes of one gun. A way to test this would be to analyze the sound recordings for the firing pattern of the gunshots. The primary weapon that can be heard in the videos clearly had something like a bump stock and was not a true automatic rifle because its rate of fire was not consistent. Compare this to what sounds like other guns and you have your answer.

Do you have any sources for the deaths at the Aria or the New York New York? If this is true, definitely necessary to look into those deaths and who those individuals are.

I thought from day one something was off. I think, two shooters, ANTIFA connection and girlfriend knows way more.

echo's can play tricks on you, especially with the strange acoustics of the hotel, and the structures on the ground

It definitely doesn't add up, and I am glad that more and more of us are questioning what MSM, law enforcement, and our government is "feeding us." I read today that they have surveillance of his car exiting the garage and "someone" using one of his room key cards to enter his room at the same time. You KNOW Mandelay Bay has the footage! We need to keep digging until we unearth the truth!!!

I have never been into conspiracies but all this is kind of weird and doesn't add up. I have read a lot of articles and comments etc, and even conspiracies and cover ups do not make sense. Can anyone clarify what the cover up would be?

Google this: "stephen paddock: here's what we know about the las vegas shooter" wgow-am

And look at the crawl dates for some wgow-am content. The shooting took place at about 10:05pm on Oct 1st, local Vegas time. No matter what timezone you imagine the crawler lives in, I'm not seeing how to square a September 29th crawl date. What do you think?

Gun store has him buying all the weapons they found in the hotel room and at his home (15 more at his house with plenty of ammo for each), he had been buying guns for a while prior to this.

they have FLIR on helicopters, no guess work required.

forward looking Infra red camera system.

legally purchased as full-auto

where are you getting that they were full auto? They weren't. They were semi-auto with after market mods which are legal to purchase but in a grey area when fitting onto a gun. The sound in the vids isn't full auto is too slow.

requires an absolutely enormous amount of people to be in on it

Well, if it was a false flag operation it was done by the deep state (or something like that). Since they control the government, how really difficult would it actually be? Most people still believe the official narrative of 911, so I would guess it's not that hard.

How is that not plausible. An intelligence agency setting up a false flag where they send it a team of 3 guys to carry out an assault and have them set up a patsy to look like it was just some random guy while the team then escapes and now they can start planning new laws and policy's to fit the situation.

Beard doesn't match.

Although, I would like to see what his sign reads.

Interesting choice of attire.

You haven't been here very long? We got past the "no way, too many people would have to be in on it" with the Kennedy assassination.

A random person in a lot of gambling debt might be easily tricked into doing an arms deal that seemed too good to pass up. Buying the bullets and guns doesn't necessarily show intent to use them in an attack.

Yes the simple explanation is probably the true one.

A random mentally ill mass shooting is infinitely more simple than an elaborate conspiracy.

That's how logic works dumbass.

If that ever went down, and we were having to worry about the swing-sets and trampolines in our own backyard, something along the way has gone seriously wrong ha

Of course. But I doubt u run past two huge resorts and across a street before u stop for help

any new info?

You need Noam.

I am not so sure. Lets see.

Also, was he on any psychotropic drugs?

How many involve 500+ injured and 50+ dead? Not that I agree with what the other guy is saying but this type of shooting IS new to the US

Last question for you would be about the angles that the holes provided and if there would be difference enough to warranted one person making both. Thanks for your insights.

There is a gun show in Vegas this upcoming weekend, maybe he brought them to sell/trade? Got there a week early to have fun.

He's around the right age, and has a white beard, but there are probably a few hundred thousand people in the country that fit that description.

My favorite transformer

Summer 2016 no attacks

Another Summer 2016 again no attacks

Spring 2017 no attacks?

No clear date but article references 1999 and Keller was top Sheriff 1995-2003 No attacks

Bibliography contains references from 2016 for training spring 2016 again no attacks.

If you want more sources, feel free to look them up. Yes, this was a tragedy. Yes, things sound fishy regarding some of the details, but using a casino training guide to say it was planned is like showing a pic of the drive through at McD's and then someone eating a burger.

What does his sign say?

show this guys pm.

Yeah but how does a guy like him come up with this sniper kind of ambush. Its something you would think you need a military background to come up with and then execute.

I'd argue that it would seem really weird for a guy to keep hauling up full bags and returning with empty. That's a ton of trips over the course of 4 days. The guns are totally believable. The thousands of rounds of ammunition? Much less so that no one would notice that or we would see a dozen+ trips up and down. Up full heavy af bag, down with empty.

Yes, u run. But do u stay on the street in the open or do u take cover in the closet building away from where the shooting was? Nyny is far from Mandalay. Ur not likely to even make it that far if ur seriously injured.

Show one video of him checking into the hotel or him walking to the room with a suitcase. That's usually the first thing that happens in these situations with news coverage.. You know they have cameras in the hallways/elevators but not one video to show the guy there.

They should prob just tear the whole hotel down like they did with sandy hook. 27 kids was a tragedy and warranted completely removing that structure from Existence so why don't they tear down this gigantic hotel/casino.

I don't agree with ms Clinton. Mental health in this country is truly lacking!

He was reportedly gambling 10k a day, I am sure he carried nothing him self, room service would have rolled his luggage on a cart surely, and may not have seemed suspicious for a high roller to have lots of luggage? just some speculation. Also a simple shoe box of loaded ammo is pretty heavy to be carrying around, much less the quantity he had.