whats so hard to imagine? he had the room for a few days before the shooting and lived 1 hour away. You could break down the guns and transport them 2 suitcases at a time
Yeah I just imagine that even if they prioritize releasing these videos (which they won't because remember, our media is profit driven and boring videos like that doesn't drive views) we probably wouldn't see them for at least 48-72 hours.
Although the alleged shooter is dead, I'm sure they will be going over these tapes to determine if there were accomplices. You don't want to reveal every piece of info to the public right off the bat.
Yeah it's not difficult to imagine at all, the point is if that's what happened then ther'll be footage of it. People want to see evidence that it was him that carried this out alone. If he did carry it out alone, there will be footage of him carrying large bags, either enough at once to account for all the equipment in the room, or enough over a period of time to account for them. It shouldn't be hard at all to pull up that footage. And if there is no footage that accounts for him having brought those guns in, then the footage needs to be examined for who did bring the guns in, i.e. what other people carrying bags went into that room?
You're being glib. It's quite clear that I just want to see videos of exactly HOW those weapons got into the room and also specifically WHO did it. I don't care whether they were moved by hand, by cart, or by telekinesis, I just want to see whoever did it doing it.
I do get what ur saying. But if it was a bellhop...perhaps people would say he isn't really a bellhop but instead someone in on it. I understand wanting to see...I just don't see how it will answer anything. On a side note...just saw on the news that a lot of hotels are now checking inside bags and are going to try to implement a rule that if u don't let them in ur room for more than 48hrs they can come in anyway and check. Smh
They won't because it's an inside job, but not the way you're thinking. They chose Mandalay Bay because it hosts Defcon every year. Darknet connected mafia from China has slowly been moving in more an more in the city and now we witnessed our first turf war between feds and reds.
his brother, Stephen was "just a guy," an "army of one" with no known children despite a string of relationships. Someone you might see nursing a drink alone at a bar. Someone who went on cruises and played $100-a-hand video poker. Someone who sent boxes of cookies to his mother.
Where it gets weird is all the other "former investors" who ended up being darknet, also live there. It's also where weev attorney is, and she specializes in defending hackers in crypto crimes.
Here's this graph too. It seems he might have been interviewed during a spot the fed game at Def con one year
And the rabbit hole starts going even deeper and more crazy the more you dig. Can't prove it yet, especially getting more tired as night goes on, but I have a hunch today might have been because of the 6trillion in crypto stolen off of alphabay.
No one knows where it went. But the dude who founded alphabay in Canada, he died when he got caught and murdered in Thailand on a "vacation"
There seems to be a lot of sketchey references on darknet forums about using medical tourism services to get networking for their supply.
And there was a short lived medical tourism place in San Francisco founded by a Chinese/Canadian student with a masters in cryptography that pulled in like 4mil in VC cash but didn't bother renewing their Domain name after a few weeks.
I dont know. I'm still trying to figure wtf is with all that
Paddock also worked for Lockheed Martin for five years before retiring, then once dark nets take off he suddenly has all this cash to gamble?
Lockheed was also the first defense contractor to adopt blockchain tech. So who knows what he did for them years later in secret. He feds hired him out from Lockheed, it's not too much a stretch to think its cause he was connected in cyber crimes.
Dude also owner a fucking airplane BUT HAD NO PAPERWORK FOR It
He worked for subsidiary of Lockheed Martin in the 80's, well before any cryptocoins or blockchain existed.
Also working in "blockchain tech" doesn't allow you to mysteriously conjure coins out of thin air, not to mention there is no evidence at all that any of this has to do with cryptocurrencies.
Your image says "collected coins", which is laughable. You somehow extrapolate that to think that means cryptocoins? The brother hadn't talked to him for 20 years, and collecting physical coins is a fairly popular hobby.
Nothing solid, you just have to connect the obvious dots. Trying to google anything Mandalay brings up shooting info.
But Defcon is held in that hotel every year, the casino paddock was a regular of, the same hotel that the other hackers involved with darknet shit always made it a point to stay at because status symbol. He was caught at "a hotel" in Vegas while running the server in his room under his legal name. But he wouldn't have only stayed at Mandalay because also it would have been the only place with enough infrastructure to Handel silk roads traffic.
I'm sorry, it might not have been the same floor. That was tired mistake. It was definitely in that hotel though. It would have been the only place it could have run. Fun exercise to try out to see the hell that is digging for stuff, Google Mandalay Bay anything and watch how the results all mention today
I'm not trying to come off saying I know this as fact, these are just what I've put together that makes sense. I mean, does no one think his behavior is a tad more in line with drug dealer about to be caught than just chalking it up to gay frog chemicals in the water again
You literally said they host defcon at Mandalay. You're exactly what's wrong with being able to talk about conspiracy freely. You're the type of person that tries to pass off false information as facts.
Then when you get call ed out you try to change your tune. Just stop. You have no credibility
Are you under the impression that the darknet is beyond the capabilities of the alphabet soup agencies to monitor?
Hate to be the one who has to break the news,but that isnt the case. The fact that every piece of IT made for sale andd use in the US is required by law to have built in backdoors for use by LEOs,along with the fact that the software architecture for darknet use is relativly simple, makes it way to easy for it to be monitored.
Ive watched continuous footage, from one camera of the entire incident. Gunfire came from 1, perhaps 2 rifles, of the same caliber and style. What is called a Bump-fire stock was likely used, this is an accessory adapted to various rifle types that allows a semi-automatic rifle to be fired as if it was full auto, without modifying internal parts of the rifle. The varying rate of fire is absolutely a characteristic of these devices. A standard full auto rifle such as the M16, as issued by military, has a continuous rate of fire when on full auto. It is clear form multiple videos that the rate of fire was variable.
False. I keep seeing this on Reddit, on /r/politics and a bunch of other places. It's super hard to do that, and you would have to be a well trained gunsmith. Honestly, at which point, you would build your own lower anyways.
Why does everyone keep insisting it was a bump fire stock and that this is indisputable? The weird changing rate of fire sounds much more like the hand crank than a bump fire stock and would make way more sense if he had it mounted on a tripod like mentioned.
Ah, thank you! That's the first time I've actually seen it reported on as a fact and not just a guess. I still wonder if that's actually what was used or if they were just on some of the other guns found in his room? Bump firing is horribly inaccurate, especially at 500+ yards. And I still swear the sound in the video I heard was way closer to thank of a crank fired gun.
You should watch a few videos on youtube. The gat crank sounds nothing like a slide fire bump stock. The cadence of the gat crank is very uneven albeit fast. A bump stock equipped rifle sounds exactly like full auto with little practice. While the burst from a bump stock is a tad slower, its a very consistent pattern just like the firing audio from the videos at the scene.
I know, that's what I'm saying! Except that in the first video I watched when my phone woke me up to the news alert yesterday morning, it definitely sounded like the rate of fire was inconsistent and changing throughout the burst of fire. I'll see if I can find that video again because I know I'm not the only one who thought the same thing.
Thank you for the link! With the previous videos id seen the audio wasnt very clear because of the distance and reverberation. Probably didnt help I listened through a junk phone. This audio DOES sound more like the gat crank. It is possible to be very bad at using a slide fire and not get the FA cadence though. I have owned a slide fire. It was pretty easy for me to learn and emulate FA. Some of my friends were terrible at it, however, and produced an uneven pattern.
Unless he has a special gun manufacturing license you can't modify any weapons to be select fire unless it was registered to a civilian before May 1986. Suspect this was a slide fire or bump fire accessory you can buy for about $500.
sigh you can buy a slide fire stick for about 120 bucks. Or less. You do not need a special ANYTHING to illegally modify a weapon. Do your homework before jumping out there.
Read his comments. He's referring to a legal internal altering means which is still restrictive. I'm not talking about a bump firing stock/trigger..It's just not about having paperwork for class 3 guns. It had to to registered 32 years ago to be legally owned by a civilian. That's why machine guns are $20k+. The good slide stocks that actually work are pricey. Yes I know you can get them cheaper. The cheap ones don't work very well.
And you mentioned the conversion to full auto requiring special blah blah.
Also not true. Several ways to do it, all searchable on YouTube. And also highly illegal to do.
Not to mention the fact that the dude had money. A lot of it. Money makes people forget that FA parts kits aren't supposed to be in the hands of civilians. Also illegal.
The guy just murdered 50+ people and wounded another 500+. Call me crazy, but I highly doubtful he would have been all that concerned about the legality.
I'm not disagreeing with you on anything really lol. Ok so bumpfire stocks have come down in price. It has been a few years since I priced them.. thanks for the correction. Just wanted to make a point you can't have new conversion paperwork on anything these days and it be legal. Didn't we say the same thing? Sigh.
Unless he has a special gun manufacturing license you can't modify any weapons to be select fire unless it was registered to a civilian before May 1986.
Yeah legally. You also can't legally shoot 500 people.
On several weapons it's super easy to file down the sear face to such a fine touch that it's technically still semi-auto but in use it's effectively full auto.
The downside is you usually lose all control.
Once you start the clip. It's going to fire until empty. You can't stop it.
When police stormed his room shortly before midnight, Mr. Paddock lay dead from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. He left behind 23 guns in the hotel suite, including two rifles mounted on tripods, 19 guns in his house, hundreds of rounds of ammunition, broken windows, and a trail of questions by family members and neighbors who are struggling to make sense of his motive. His car remained parked with the hotel valet.
How do they know so quickly the gunshot wound was self-inflicted? Surely it would make sense to consider that someone went in there, shot him and then carried out the shooting?
Everyone needs to keep this in mind. We are totally relying on corporate (state run) media to provide us the information we are processing. 100% chance the information, at the very least, is unintentionally inaccurate. 90% chance is pure disinformation.
I love pondering the idiocy of that logic. If someone shot someone I loved to death, I'd only want more guns, seriously that is all I conclude. When I think about people being hurt, raped and killed in large numbers, I just want to arm everyone I know and love to the teeth everywhere they go.
If anything this seems like some effort to boost gun sales.
See... Youre seeing it from a covilians perspective. Think about it from someone pushing the agenda. If we kill people and blame it on some Joe then we can get people to think we need more gun laws so Joes cant get guns as easily. Clearly that's not how we are thinking about it
The purpose of 2a is to act as a hard stopper to a tyrannical government. Madmen or governments pulling stunts changes this 0%. I am guessing many who support 2a appreciate this, who really knows.
Las Vegas police scanner audio indicates people during the shooting were trying to get into police vehicles to grab the weapons there, presumably to protect themselves. So whether or not more weapons would have stopped the shooting is one issue, but whether it drives up demand for weapons is another. (http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/10/listen_to_chaotic_scene_as_pol.html)
That's not the point. You're telling us a fact. Facts are for logic and reasoning - this kind of thing is a matter of emotions. Most people will fit what they think to how they feel about it and the demographic we're talking about arguably tends to include the kind of people who feel like arming themselves in response to feeling unsafe.
Yeah gun law advocates think that since big stupid aggressive people exist (and will likely run out and arm themselves and their families the instant any panic drops), that it's safer to take everyone's guns away.
I don't think either are very good solutions, but I also can't see anything else that would work. It's a touchy topic.
typically, those who purchase and carry firearms are EXTREMELY law abiding people. us CC holders are VERY careful and VERY responsible with our weapons as well as everything else in our lives.
Remember pal, good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns.
What happens if someone gets shot on the street corner, and a police officer witnesses it? He calls for backup, aka MORE GUNS, and engages. So yes, in most cases, more guns is ultimately the answer.
I already went and bought 2 firearms this week. So yes, its pretty much the first thing a lot of us think about.
Right on. I think it's often hard to attribute the drop in crime in true numbers. https://i.imgur.com/lp3UVOe.jpg But this is an interesting graph on it.
I imagine often that criminals that believe an area is heavily armed will not take that risk.
A lot of people point out the dangers of guns, but for the number of legal gun owners out there, you don't hear much about them. https://i.imgur.com/o8pKdHH.png
Guns simply aren't what kills people. It takes a human with the will to kill. Thank God this guy didn't have explosives too. I was reading that he was shooting at jet fuel tanks 1000' from the venue. Should we ban jet fuel if he had happened to cause a explosion?
Las Vegas police scanner audio indicates people during the shooting were trying to get into police vehicles to grab the weapons there, presumably to protect themselves. So the likelihood seems more that if this was a deliberate false flag event, it was to drive up demand for weapons. (http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/10/listen_to_chaotic_scene_as_pol.html). Even if the audio itself is falsified, it still points to a narrative of "get guns to protect yourself."
My theory is the Vegas Golden Knights saw how people are brought together in sports (see: yankees and 9/11), so they decided to carry out an attack in order to boost ticket sales.
I never understood that logic. It's like when people said Obama was coming for their guns. Which all that did was bring gun sales up higher.
Than you have a shooting like this which I'm told is supposed to make people change their minds? If anything it's things like this that cause more gun sales.
Gun sales go up because they think they will get banned or harder to get. Source: I am a stock market junky. Every shooting they go up on the speculation they will be taken away, which never happens.
Exactly, someone or something has a built-in incentive to sponsor or commit acts that might raise the unrealistic threat that the guns will be taken away.
Which like you say never happens. If it didn't happen under Obama why would it happen now? Unless Trump just 180s. Which I guess he could?
Yeah, but the incentive enough. There are way more ways to do shady stuff with stocks. When I said they went up, it was only approx .34c or 2.4%. there are way easier ways to make money current relevant example: look up the volume of puts on Equifax before they released the news, then look at historic volume.
Gun sales are going to go up because gun control is brought up again. They fell when bush took office and repealed the aw ban, and they've fallen now when trump took office and promised to uphold amendment rights.
People own guns, it's not a crime. Just cause he purchased a few guns, while living in rural Nevada no less, does not mean a thing. I bet 75% of Nevada residents own >1 gun. Someone look it up
It makes more sense than just a random shooting by a retired millionaire.
Gives trump a chance to bring the country together with kind words for the victims. Allows trump to give liberals a win with stricter gun laws.
Also probably a unplanned happy coincidence for trump. Now he doesn't have to stay long in torn apart Puerto Rico and can quickly run over to one of his cushy hotels in Vegas.
How does it bring the country together? At least with 9/11 the motives were driven by money, power and the need to pretend to go to war so that oil could be secured in the middle east.
Because it never is. Terrorist organizations want to take claim when an Islamic radicalist goes crazy, and their is normally evidence that the group was linked to the radical. No such evidence here. Now, a day later, the noise about this being something other than a loon deciding to kill a bunch of people, with high powered, hard to obtain, militaristic weapons, is starting to make some sense.
Sure, motive would be a whole lot more clear so there wouldn't be unanswered questions. Family and neighbors saying this doesn't add up remotely compounds this idea dramatically.
The simple fact is, anyone paying attention knows the media and government are cramming this anti-white and anti-gun agenda down our throats for at least a decade and it's only growing louder and louder.
Do you remember Heather Heyer? They love to point to her death as some sort of white supremacist nazi thing. Although the circumstances were insanely suspicious, she was an inactive morbidly obese smoker who actually died of a heart attack, someone was tossed by a car, but nobody seems to know who they were or where they went. https://youtu.be/SKZqG1T07cs
Divide and conquer. "EVERYTHING IS WHITEYS FAULT!" says the zion.
I know right, if it was a false flag why would they send in the most obvious old white guy. I love the conspiracy subreddit, I try not to criticize conspiracies because that's what we're here for. At the same time, this seems to obvious for false flag or any kind of gun grab.
If he had no criminal record and lived in a retirement community, with no military or police background, and no evidence to support a motive, then yes, I think people would start to question whether he was set up, regardless of ethnicity.
That being said, it does bother me that none of the media will call him a terrorist.
There are outlets like the Guardian (vehemently independent of UK government, broke Snowden/many Iraq stories), it's direct competition (e.g. The Telegraph, the Observers, the Times -
all with their own editorial freedom, responsibilities, credibility, accountability standards in all news stories) - the media watchdogs that overlook them, the independent journalists, freelancers, Nordic outlets (Norway, Finland, Sweden - considered among the free-est in the world) which is all a drop in ocean compared to the thousands of outlets all over the world
Many of these scouring, researching, interviewing, cross-checking - the emergency responders, the police, investigators, hospital staff, doctors, the hundreds of people injured in wards, witnesses, neighbours, friends, etc
So far in the last 17 years or so I've seen every major terrorist attack and shooting (911, 7/7 London, Madrid train bombings, Sandy hook, Boston Bombing, Columbine, Charlie Hebdo, Aurora, Paris attacks, multiple recent London attacks, and many more) labelled as false flags or inside jobs on forums within hours of the event
The typical progression is that shortly after the attack posters start proclaiming the event is "fishy" or "strange". Other's group-validate that. Others point out not to trust the media/authorities (stage we are at now), then down the line comes the photos with the circles in them and youtube videos with collections of "discrepancies/doubts/holes" in order to discredit the "official" version of events, then interest dwindles until the next major attack/shooting
Hey, don't be bringing reasoning and facts into /r/conspiracy. Please talk way more about coded language and symbology and pizza. They've got to be behind this. I mean muh Soros is the devil. This is obviously the lefts was of sabotaging the 2A.
And twitter, and the police, and the country music stars that heard the shooting, and the tens of thousands of witnesses, and the nurses, EMTs, and the doctors at the hospitals, and the reporters and the FBI and the governor. They're all in on it and you guys are totally the sane rational ones
I’m sorry I’ve missed some crucial info and have already felt suspicious of this before even investigating this very much, but he was shot in the back with a self inflicted shot gun blast?
yeah we should just believe the official narrative and go along with the ensuing legislation.
that worked out so well after 9/11, why not double down? i say we ban all automatic weapons and microchip people so that we know where they are at all times and can shut down their heart with the bush of a button, then we'll never have mass shootings! hooray freedom!
Put multiple, conflicting stories out there and they'll never figure it out, has been an FBI/CIA technique since 11/22/'63, and it has worked fairly well until recently, when an increasingly large proportion of the US population have finally raised their consciousness, and seen the BS. Once you see it, you never unsee. So we have multiple deep-state-run shooters at Las Vegas. Their purpose: flush out Trump supporters, kill them, and then neutralize the president, starting right about now, or within two weeks. Then, police state, for your protection, with a catchy name for it. Beware.
I agree. Plus we now have video cameras on every single person. Older people that stage and plan these things tend to get caught off guard because tech evolves faster andchanges society at a faster pace than ever before. We could crowd source all video and photos and recreate the event and know for sure.
I agree the back of the head thing was odd - but saying this makes you look like an ass " already felt suspicious of this before even investigating this very much"
I've seen the picture, he wasn't shot in the back unless there is more than his head wound. The picture is him laying on his back with his head in a pool of blood and a revolver near the outside frame of the picture.
From seeing Bud Dwyer suicide, it looks similar to me, he was standing or sitting shot himself through the mouth, fell to the floor with the gun, and the blood pooled out of his mouth and back of the head.
John Lang said Fresno PD was going to kill him in retaliation for reporting on their illegal activities, then stabbed himself multiple times and set his own house on fire.
The full picture extends downwards another 5 inches or so, and there is blood on his shirt in the abdomen area.
I'm not saying I believe this but it's conceivable that he was shot in the abdomen area - either front or back - and the blood out of his mouth is aspirated blood.
If you see the Bud Dwyer suicide which happened live on TV, it would make sense if he was standing or sitting to shoot himself through the mouth, fall back, and have some blood splatter on the front, before the majority of it went with gravity across his face lying down and out the back of his head.
not saying this happened, but you don't have shoot somebody from behind to execute somebody. We are on /r/conspiracy aren't we? it's possible somebody made it look like he shot himself.
It makes r/conspiracy nearly worthless. There are real conspiracies out there but these wild assed users with crazy speculation makes this place look like a lunatic bin.
There is a part of me that thinks it could be controlled oppo making the wildest of assertions.
And if you think about it, there's a lot of sense in planting wild theories in a conspiracy sub in order to discredit the whole of the conspiracy body.
I sometimes wonder whether Alex Jones is controlled oppo or is at least partly funded by a shadow government agency out to discredit conspiracy theories in general. As in, "oh, you're think there's such things as conspiracies like that lunatic Alex Jones?"
no thats a fake picture. the blood wouldnt be pooled like that with a point blank shot to the top of your head. there would be of spread pattern further to the top of the picture.
Blood is pooled because he must've shot himself through his mouth standing/sitting up. When he fell back, the blood would begin to drain out of the would and pool around that area.
no thats a fake picture. the blood wouldnt be pooled like that with a point blank shot to the top of your head. there would be of spread pattern further to the top of the picture.
Blood is pooled because he must've shot himself through his mouth standing/sitting up. When he fell back, the blood would begin to drain out of the would and pool around that area.
The rifle with the fore grip was .223 and did have a bump stock, and what appears to be a Surefire 100 round magazine loaded, with a rather large stack of similar magazines next to the pillar.
The other rifle, with the bipod, appears to be an AR-10 chambered in .308 with a standard 30 round magazine, a magnified scope, and no appearance of a bump stock. One thing worth noting though, bump stocks and bipods are not very comparable with each other.
The FBI reported yesterday evening that 12 of the 23 weapons found in the hotel room had “devices” that allowed them to “mimic” an automatic method of fire. So far the only pictures I’ve seen has been those two rifles and the pistol which he presumably suck started to end his life.
I don't understand why he wouldn't put the bipod on the one with the bump stock. It would increase the stability and accuracy and would probably help regulate the rate of fire to prevent malfunctions. I've never shot a rifle with a bump stock though so I don't know if thats true
From my understanding, with a bump stock, you seat the buttstock into your shoulder and place your finger in the trigger well. You use your off hand to move the rifle forward, thus pulling your finger back into the trigger and firing off a round, then the recoil makes the rifle itself go back and forth causing your finger to quickly release and pull the trigger in rapid succession which effectively replicates automatic fire. The key to this working is the buttstock staying firmly seated in your shoulder, your finger remaining firm against the plastic part of the bump stock at the trigger well, and the rest of the rifle itself actually moving back and forth. A bipod would prohibit the rifle from moving forward and backward. That’s why bump stocks are fairly unreliable and not very accurate... but for this guy, he didn’t have to be all that accurate, he was basically trying to “hit the broadside of a barn” here.
The bump stock acts like a second spring (in addition to the buffer spring in the rifle) that uses recoil to bounce the rifle off your shoulder. Most people also get a gunsmith to modify the trigger so it has a shorter travel length and lighter breaking weight so that when the gun bounces forward and then back again, it shoots another round while you keep your trigger finger in the same postion
The key being the rifle “moving” to make a bump stock effective. Even with a trigger adjusted to have a very light trigger pull, the rifle itself still needs to move. For bipods to be the most effective, they should have sandbags or some kind of weight behind and/or in front of the feet of the bipod, and firm pressure should be applied to the buttstock. Enough pressure that if you didn’t have sandbags, the bipods and rifle itself would skip forward.
Ok yeah that one definitely has one. I wonder why he put the bipod on the other one though. If it were me I would want as much stability and accuracy as possible on my most effective, casualty producing weapon
Most stable and effective would be using a tripod, or bipod if needed. But like I said, they aren’t very compatible with a bump stock. He would’ve been better off using a trigger crank, a modified sear, or buying an illegal but legitimate fully automatic weapon or two from the black market. Obviously money wasn’t a huge obstacle for him, but maybe he viewed those options as too risky?
You can get any fabrication shop who is willing to make a modified sear. I mean he was a wealthy older white dude so its not like he would raise any red flags
True, but in theory, that would require him to trust whomever he asked. That’s not a legal modification, so you can’t just go to any fab shop and ask for somebody to make the modification for you and hope they don’t report you to the authorities.
I didn't say just any shop. I said a shop that was willing to do it. They are out there. And they aren't going to report him if they already sold him the sear.
True. It still would’ve taken trust. Guess we won’t know until the official findings come out, or never, if any of the weapons had modified sears. Even if he found a shop to do that for him, he easily could’ve gotten a couple done, but when you ask for 5-10+ Modified sears, that might raise the suspicions of people that are willing to perform the work for him.
He definitely used a bump stock for one of the rifles though, and as pictured, it appears he had a Surefire 100 round mag loaded into the rifle and a considerable stack of similar magazines next to the pillar, which tells me that rifle was his primary choice. We’ve only seen pictures of two of the rifles within the room though.
Most of the videos I’ve seen and heard have a very inconsistent rate of fire within a single burst, which leads me to believe that a bump fire rifle was his primary weapon of choice over a rifle with a modified sear.
Side note, every time I read your name I get that subtle corner of the mouth smile.
Yeah I'm wondering if they returned fire through the door and came in and found him dead from the exchange. Decided it was better to say self inflicted.
Was is a gunshot to the side of the head? Id call it a suicide. Or should we question the fact the a white american male would never do this. It was probably a muslim terrorist who did all this.
Did you ever watch the new Borne Supremecy film, where the "bad guys" tried to force the "good guy" to shoot herself in the head - to make it look like suicide?
If not, are you aware someone can force another person to shoot themselves, with physical force?
Have you seen Shooter with Mark Wahlberg where they do the same thing and it works, and they brag about it working a bunch of times before. Also the premise of that movie would line up well with this, with a remotely controlled gun. Before you start being a douchebag, remember I'm just the arising and I don't necessarily believe this happened.
It's possible, but there is decent science regarding time of death, especially if the death occurred recently. If he had been dead for hours longer, they would know, the difference is pretty stark.
In the army, soldiers used to shoot themselves in the foot to get out. They were quick to cotton on that the trajectory of the bullet were self inflicted.
Who's to say that they didn't have people on the scene afterwards that mapped out their reasoning behind it being self inflicted, after the hotel room was given the all clear?
But what could be the point of shooting indiscriminately at concert goers?
Not being cynical at all. Just really what could be an agenda behind that? False flag? Against who tho?
Nah nah, totally not possible. Don't even consider it. Why would you want to waste brain power thinking about that when the news can tell you what to think and you can just sit back!?
So he meticulously set this entire thing up, the hotel booking in advance, making sure he faced a concert, buying all the equipment, lugging all the guns up, positioning everything...
And then someone walks in on him, shoots him, and carries out the shooting themselves?
An ME (medical examiner) probably took his body temperature, that'd narrow the ToD down to around 30 minutes, which is most likely enough time to tell whether or not he was set up.
deleted post very suspicious, talking about how it sounded like a bump stock. maybe somebody "got" to the OP. the bump stock is a silly workaround for a law not an inherent good idea about how to make an automatic weapon dont feel any shame.
A loaded AK47 is around 11 pounds. Throw 4 in a bag that's 44 pounds. I recently travelled to New York and my bag was 49 pounds. I was able to wheel it around very easily
All sarcasm aside, the funniest part is that he could literally ask a bell hop to do it. Throw 10 rifles and ammo in a huge custom made pelican case and tell the concierge "I've got some expensive electronic equipment can you please get this to my room" and they'd be happy to do it
This is Las Vegas. You could back a Uhaul truck full of live chickens into the valet parking area, and if the hotel thinks you're going to spend some money gambling, they'll ask you what room to bring the chickens to
Don't need to tell them that. Vegas hosts shot show every here and I'm sure there are other gun conventions every weekend. No one would bat an eye if they were guns, but he would have to be concerned that someone might break into his room and steal his shit!
We're all mocking those few redditors who claim he could not possibly have gotten his rifles up to his room undetected over the 4 days he was staying there.
I swear to god he is a plant. And I always keep coming back to Russia, and I don't really have any reason other than this shit is nefarious and they need Trump to get his base to coalesce around him once more. I know Hydra isn't real, but all this shit coming out about this story, hell Hydra may be possible.
Why would the release anything during an open investigation? and why would the release information on how someone hid their guns in an elevator?? C'mon...
Rifles? He was shooting full on machine guns and by the sounds of it, they were without a doubt, band fed, not normal "lock and loaded" (forget the name of the cartridge holder).
Really because if you listen to the police scanner you literally here shots go off the second the cops breach the door, and said we have the suspect down. He either shot himself literally as they entered or the cops shot him.
Casino cameras can see enough detail to read which cards your holding, more than enough detail to identify someone's face walking clear through the lobby.
I find it weird that they aren't letting us see the way he was acting before the attack.
I find it insane you expect evidence like this released a day after the incident. It's not that they are hiding footage from you, it's that it is under a microscope and they will not just release this stuff until they comb it over thoroughly
Im impressed a 64 year old was able hump around all that iron, run between and operate two difficult to control automatic weapons. Not something a retiree investor type would seem particularly good at.
Well, if you're shooting into a crowd theirs not too much to control, and moving between guns really depends on how capable he is. I know 70+ year olds who walk the course multiple times a week, and <60 year olds who can't move very well. As far as moving the weapons idk.
But moving weapons should be easy. Don't they have those dolly things you can toss them on? Or get someone to simply help. They're in a bag, no one is going to care.
I mean it really doesn't take much here, lots of small bags, have someone help carry them for you, tip them.
I don't know what world these people are living in where it's hard to move stuff around a Vegas hotel. They provide carts for free that require no proof you're even staying there to use AND many even have human beings to help you move stuff. They ALL have elevators and places you can pull your car right up to the front door.
Not to mention, guns don't have to be in giant metal cases. You can take them apart and just put them in a suitcase. It's not even insane for a 64 year old to do this. My father is 65 and still mows his own yard, does all his own gardening, shovels snow out of his driveway, and walks a minimum of five miles a day. 64 year olds aren't feeble and incapable either.
None of this is impossible and people who are saying it is proof of a false flag are being willfully ignorant of possibilities so they can fuel their own beliefs.
Yea that's just weird. Is everyone really young on this sub? Have they never seen a person in their 60s? Retired people still go for light jogs, bike, workout, cruises, cook. Shit I knew a 90 year old woman who still maintained her cow/milking place (fuck if I know what they're called). It was the largest on the western side of Colorado. She had help obviously but was in charge still.
The age argument is stupid. The hotel moving stuff around is stupid.
I could have a broken leg and still get all the weapons inside a hotel. Heh.
Nah, it's cool. My cousin's 100 year old grandmother could have probably managed to move 10 guns into a hotel using dollies, valet help, and rolling suitcases over the course of four days.
People are seriously underestimating what people are capable of and using that as evidence here. It's sad to see for a group of people who consider themselves above taking facts at face value when they're told.
I'm an old man and get underestimated all the time. Young people assume that everyone over 50 is decrepit, demented, and impotent. However, for context, when Expendables 3 was made in 2014, the average age of Stallone, Statham, Ford, Schwarzeneggar, Gibson, Snipes, Lundgren, Banderas and Jet Li was almost 60.
They're not difficult to control. Especially when shooting at a sea of people vs one individual.
Don't try to pass yourself off as an expert on gun recoil there''s a reason the military can carry a saw and fire it from their shoulders. All it takes is 30 mins of practice at most
You're right but usually you have the bellman take the bags up. There should be a vid of that. And if he took them himself he would have to make multiple trips. Like you said not impossible but he would be on video a bunch going through the lobby
They have luggage carts that hold a lot of bags. Even if the bellhop took them they wouldn't have thought anything of it. I don't see how it matters if he took his bag or if the bellhop did. It is easy to take a lot of bags to ur room...in one trip or many. They don't check ur bags and a lot of luggage doesn't raise concern. I'm not sure how his luggage plays into anything.
I don't see how people could be so dumb to think that if a guy spent 4 days in the room that he could nonchalantly carry multiple bags, across multiple shifts that it wouldn't be plausible. Hell when I traveled across country in the Navy, i had 4 bags just by myself. But for me it was obvious I was active duty. But still 10-15 bags is a cake walk especially after being there for 3.5 days.
The guy was a known whale to the casinos, what's to say he didn't hire some hookers to bring some extra bags up in the previous days. I'm thinking the casino would turn a blind eye considering his high roller status.
Good call, i haven't thought about the car. I was too busy looking at Google Earth for security cameras as to where they could look for footage to confirm how many shooters there were.
Valet is the most logical way to park your car. Everyone uses it multiple times in one day. It is free and u don't have to search for a spot. U can carry ur own luggage or get a bellhop but either way ur luggage wouldn't get a second look no matter how many bags you had.
We watched the footage of Columbine on TV within hours of it happening. Don't pretend that security cam footage is some sacred cow that us plebs never have access to.
I can watch football players beat the shit out of people in elevators,subway restaurants and bars. You can watch robberies on any gas stations surveillance. The point being made is if it involves tabloid or everyday citizens it usually makes it to the internet for us all to gawk at, but all these agenda driven shootings never once have anything leak. And they always leave questions like why is there always an active shooter drill scheduled the same day. And why does the crowd always act different than I would being shot at.
Oh you mean you watch footage of petty crimes happening after the trials already been concluded? Not ones with an active investigation that started less than 24 hours ago? Yea you're right that's really strange.
And you're telling me that after a day of drinking while on vacation in Vegas, at a concert with music blaring and a crowd of people all around you, you'd correctly identify gunshots coming from several stories above your head, and let's not forget that the majority of those people probably haven't heard a gun outside of an action movie. You're a real fucking modern day James Bond.
The point being made is if it involves tabloid or everyday citizens it usually makes it to the internet for us all to gawk at, but all these agenda driven shootings never once have anything leak.
But doesn't this make sense from a non-conspiratorial perspective as well?
A case where someone beats the shit out of another person, it is pretty cut and dry and there is little incentive to protect the evidence. If they have a bunch of footage, and there are more people involved, it might make sense to hide footage so they don't "tip" anyone off.
And why does the crowd always act different than I would being shot at.
Have you been shot at? Or, more accurately, have you been in a situation where you are being shot at but are not sure if it is fireworks or not? If not, you have no idea how you would act.
They release what they want you to be outraged by. Just like they only release the staged film footage so it is controlled to their narrative. I'm not saying this didn't happen I'm just saying they never happen the way we were told.
No I haven't been shot at and you're right to the point I don't truly know how I would react. But I'm not sitting around questioning. I'm just leaving.
There are all kinds of motives for releasing things. However, the reality is that I think there are more motives to keep shootings like this underwrap than there are for celebrities doing stupid, abhorrent shit. And more motives to release the latter.
But I'm not sitting around questioning. I'm just leaving.
Unless you are questioning whether or not it is gun fire at all. You are at a concert, it is loud, no one else is running, you are maybe not completely sober, so putting myself in their shoes, it makes sense to me that they may not even realize it. On top of that, you don't know how you are going to act when that "shock" overtakes you that your life might be immediately on the line. It's easy to say what you would do when you can sit and rationally think about it, its much different in the heat of the moment. I'm not so confident that I wouldn't act stupidly as well.
Judging from your rant you probably didn't know that the camera's are owned by MGM and it's MGMs discretion on when to release the footage. I'm sure they were asked and complied to hold off on releasing the footage as this is an ongoing investigation.
Yeah, we won't actually see the guy taking the shots, but we'd be able to watch him cart several backs back and forth, through the lobby, etc, etc, etc.
Or most people here have obviously never been in a strip hotel lobby, the lobbys are massive with literally hundreds of people with bags/luggage everywhere.
Absolutly nothing would stand out about this guy, no matter how many trips he took outside to his car or how many bags he brought in
So when you give your shit to the police for an investigation, you can't somehow release something you don't have. Good god. It's a casino, they don't triple back up their video. Probably one HDD with the footage that was given to the popo right away.
Well we can cross that bridge if we get to it. The point is there is no footage. but they can post pics of his guns, his room, and his body though.
See you won't believe it. It is like the flat eathers no matter what they say they will accept as evidence once you provide it they say it is fake.
You know, or should know, that footage like this isn't normally released in the early stages of an investigation unless doing so would help them find people involved or people in danger.
I don't get why people who think this is a hoax think those behind it are so remarkably dumb. It stands to reason that, if this was a hoax, those behind it would plan it better than a high school one act play.
RIGHT, but they can release pics of evidence, of his room, of his body, etc. dumb people...man they flood this sub.
Yes they can and typically do release such information early like this. You spin typical behavior as conspiratorial because you are unwilling to examine things with an open mind. You appear to already know what happened and are search for evidence to prove that.
Actually it seems like there’s a lack of an investigation. They didn’t even need to release anything about this guy until they knew 100% what happened. He’s already been found guilty by the court of public opinion. If they don’t release security footage from outside of his room, it’s shady.
Agreed. Even fucking McDonald's has cams everywhere. How can this major high-rise resort not have something to show us. Maybe because he was dragged in by someone else, or maybe he came in in a bag.
They can’t. Someone in this thread was saying they worked in the casinos and 9 out of 10 don’t have cameras once you get away from the elevators. That’s not accurate at all. They claimed they don’t worry about guest security as much as their money which is probably true. But one thing Vegas doesn’t fuck around with is liability. Anything that happens in their hotel they want it on camera. Obviously there’s not a camera on every door, but every hallway is covered.
McDonald's can have cameras everywhere because the average McDonald's is 4-5k square feet. A 32+ story hotel would need hundreds to thousands of cameras to meet the same coverage. It's not a feasible comparison. They'll have cameras covering the major common areas, but it's not unreasonable that they won't have complete and constant coverage of all areas of individual hotel hallways or room entrances. They likely have footage of the guy in the main common areas, and with luggage, but that's likely it--and as the investigation is ongoing, I wouldn't expect a release for some time.
And they're already saying "lone wolf" when there were reports and eyewitness accounts of multiple shooters. And that Audi car bomb. Sound like another woman involved too. Fishy.
Many people called saying they saw more shooters. These 'shooters' were SWAT teams with guns entering the hotel. I also heard off-duty cops were in the area with weapons.
Just because some civilian saw someone with a gun, doesn't mean it was another shooter.
Wow, that's interesting...maybe the Cosmopolitian wanted to make sure he wouldn't file any more lawsuits against them. Casino has more than enough money to hire psy ops, they're probably intertwined with the CIA putting money into their slush fund, so it would just be another false flag operation to them.
Couldn't you just bring them in in golf club cases the airline ones? Broken down you could fit a couple in, maybe more, if you do it over the course of a few hours, nobody is going to notice. It's not like he has to walk in with ten rifle cases.
Nobody is saying they expect to see him walking in with rifle cases. But the footage must exist because these cameras are everywhere in Vegas. If we don't see the footage we know something's up. That's the point.
Shit, less than a couple of days since the biggest shooting of recent times and we haven’t released any of the footage that reddit is demanding? This after being condemned after releasing footage of the Manchester Bombings very soon after the event?
Stop that fucking investigation Kowalski - we need to get fucking uploading to fucking YouTube. And none of your 720p crap, otherwise we’ll be accused of hiding something.
Do you honestly think that reporters aren't scrambling to get that footage? That they aren't willing to pay for an exclusive report showing him walking in. What about the other casino owners that would want to see the footage to know what to look out for.
Besides, I never said anything about them taking too long to show the footage or that we should have already seen it. But if it is never released then we should be suspicious of that. I would expect it to be released relatively quickly since the shooter is dead.
Authorities said Monday that Paddock had used as many as 10 suitcases to transport the arsenal to his room at the Mandalay Bay and had smashed open the room's windows with a hammer-like device.
I guarantee you that footage of Stephen checking in would be useless and would look completely normal. As someone who works in large casinos and hotels, it's not uncommon at all to have somebody walk in with multiple very large luggage bags. It's not surprising or suspicious. Have you ever taken apart a gun? Cleaned a gun? You can make an AR rifle fit into a small backpack, and tripods and other modifications are made for easy transport most of the time with foldable parts. Here's what you'd see...
•Older man with large bags at hotel desk surrounded by hundreds of others with large bags.
•older man getting into elevator with his bags.
And if you're lucky, the hotel floors themselves have cameras but I've worked at 2 large resorts and both of them had no footage on the floors themselves. Only downstairs where all the assets are, and the elevators going up to the hotels. After that? Zip.
It would still be useful to see that he did actually have large bags with him, to support the fact that it was he who brought the guns in, and he who used them. If they came into the room to find this man dead on the floor by all these guns, who's to say someone else didn't just choose a random person's hotel room, shoot him dead, carry out the attack, and then make it look like he was the only person there and had committed suicide?
Yeah, I get that. But there's also nothing stopping him from leaving and coming back multiple times throughout multiple days. You'd need footage of his vehicle and every time it left, if if did. If his vehicle was parked in valet it should be under surveillance. If it stayed parked for 4 days, and the footage of him checking in doesn't look suspicious... then we have something.
That wouldn't be hard to do. Who cares show the footage in the elevator or the story is bullshit. Point blank period. Every mass shooting never has any footage, sandy hook, Orlando, and now this. Of course he could have done it over multiple trips. Compile the footage and release it. You act like the media wouldn't be all over that film if it actually existed.
It 100% exists unless the surveillance department erased it. Which would be EXTREMELY suspect. I agree I think they should release it, they have nothing to lose of their narrative is correct.
I don't think that they are allowed to release something like that. It goes to FBI / Homeland or something and I honestly think that right now every second this man has made in Vegas is being analyzed by some team.
They're not. You're right, and I think we will get a lot more info soon. It's quiet right now because it's still very fresh. There's nothing on the surface to really point to here so it's going to take some digging from the authorities.
Yep. The footage has been taken by federal investigators and won’t be shown because there won’t be a trial since the suspected shooter is dead.
But they do show surveillance footage in trials. There was a camera outside the church in Charleston that captured the killer entering and exiting with a gun in his hand.
Its been a while since ive seen any of the footage. Not sure where to find any these days. And considering how hard various gun lobbyist work to defend their bullshit, it wouldnt surprise me if it has been hidden on the best place to hide a body-on the second page of google search results.
Nah, Bruce Ivins killed himself before charges could be formally filed. He never went to trial. It took feds a few years to release their findings on the evidence linking him to it though, but I’m not sure that included video.
Yeah, the people calling for the release of the tapes know this, and know it won't be released until an investigation is complete. They're propagating a condition to believe the shooting that is impossible to meet so they can use it as FALSE FLAG evidence.
I would be happy if we saw anything at all. I'm actually pretty impressed that there's a decent amount of footage from the concert, considering there was no footage from the concert in Paris which is total crap.
None made it to Facebook, YouTube, etc? Video can be uploaded almost in real time now. Vegas is a perfect example of what should have happened in Paris
That is reasonable but you are underestimating how readily some people will move goal posts when the first round of evidence doesn't meet their narrative.
Oh no. I'm not underestimating, I know you have a solid point. I see it all the time. I love debating conspiracies but it must be done logically and reasonably. The investigation must determine the story, not the other way around.
Just like how a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon would shut up the vast majority of truthers saying it wasn't a plane or how the cctv of Adam Lanza pulling up outfront Sandy Hook would be enough for people. But for some reason our government doesn't like to show that stuff.
You would think they would want to show it to make conspiracy theorists all seem wrong and insane?
I'd be perfectly happy just see him carrying the luggage from a garage. I'm not on the bandwagon of this being a false flag. I'm just open to things and would consiser it a little suspect if we don't see him carrying any of these bags.
no, like if they actually involved us in the process so there was some sort of baseline for operations, where people could give information to the police and then the authorities determine what is use-able and what is reddit bullshit.
like, idk, community policing for example, where the police build relationships with the community rather than become this militaristic hand of the elite.
I agree I think they should release it, they have nothing to lose of their narrative is correct.
I disagree about 'nothing to lose'.
I would like them to release this footage, but as I said elsewhere in this thread, Vegas is about 80-90% about the prestige. Showing a terrorist / madman going past their security with bags of guns would gain them nothing but could harm their future business.
If I was in the same position they were in, I'd give the footage to authorities, but I'd fight to keep it out of the public eye. It just makes more business sense.
And they already checked with the gun shops where he purchased the weapons and they confirmed it was him but that nothing was out of ordinary with him or his purchases.
Do you think after they found him dead, they wiped the room clean and took everything out? No... They do an investigation which will include checking to see if there's residue on his hands, fingerprints on the guns etc..
He'll likely have many marks on him that verify he was the one shooting. They don't just say 'Welp, he's dead, clean this place up and bury the body'.
Very likely won't have that footage. 9 times out of 10 the surveillance coverage stops after the elevators. Surveillance would be able to determine who got off on his floor but not be able to confirm who went into his room and when. I can only think of one Vegas resort with hotel surveillance coverage, and that's Caesars. Casinos care less about safety of the guests and more about their assets and employees integrity.
Electronic locks keep a record of everyone who accesses them. There may not be video footage, but we could knot without a doubt every time his room's door was unlocked while he was checked in to that room. No matter what there is useful information that can be obtained, assuming the investigators working the case are doing their job properly.
No it keeps a record of a key being used and what time the keys aren't necessarily registered to an individual, just to the room. It really proves nothing. He could have gone out to the hallway to get ice 20 times and the key would register as 20 entries to the room.
TIL explaining how basic things work = dissuading. Am I dissuading you from investigating by explaining that the trees in the forest don't have AV surveillance in them to determine whether the tree made a sound when it fell?
Lol. Don't be delusional, I think there may be some interesting things here too I'm just shedding some light based on the experience I have. I happen to have a lot of career experience in casinos and resorts just like the one the shooter was in. Not everything is a fucking 10 dimensional puzzle piece.
You're bringing up a lot of valid points and info that the counter argument will make later on. Doing this helps break down the various options and how things could have gone down. Plus you're not being hostile or a dick so keep doing you.
Seeing the key log may not give us the smoking gun but it may give some helpful info. Like say some one entered the room after we see Stephen getting on the elevator to go down stairs.
And seeing what kind of luggage and how many pieces of luggage will help decide if he really did bring 23 guns and ammo and all the other equipment. 23 guns will not be light, so he would have most likely needed large rolling luggage. It also wouldnt be a cloth or stiff fabric kind. It would be a hard shell. But if he is seen making multiple trips with small bags then that would also be a possibility.
There's a lot of ways he could have gotten the guns up there. But if the videos don't show lots of trips with small bags or one very large piece of luggage(or two or 3)then he most likely didn't bring them up(or had a helped who is still on the loose).
If he had a helper and the investigators saw that then they are not going to release the tapes and tip off the helper, so they can go into hiding. Or speed up a second act.
I'm sure there is video. I don't know how long a hotel like Mandalay Bay tends to keep video, I'd imagine that it recycles after a period of time unless there's a reason to keep a segment.
My guess is that a hotel like the Mandalay, with a casino and a huge amount of traffic, will keep it longer than a Motel 6. The FBI probably already has the footage in their possession and is reviewing it to see if they can find anything.
Just want to say thank you for calm explaining the simple common sense answers to people dead set on their preconceived narrative. This sub (ostensibly) is about critical thinking, skepticism, and ruling out what doesn't make sense, but that seems to be less valued lately especially with certain topics.
Thanks. I keep my mouth shut about stuff when I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is something I have particular insight into because of my line of work. Just trying to think rationally and go one step at a time until more info comes out. This sub needs to go back toward skepticism and critical thinking instead of the echo chamber of fanatics that think everything is a conspiracy by nature just because It was posted here. Some things in this world are super fishy, some are simple and as they seem.
Where does it keep this record? Does it have some sort of radio transmitter that send this info to a server in the hotel office? I worked at a big chain hotel when I was younger and there there is no system like that.
It's saved locally on the electronic keypad. In order to retrieve the info you need to take a reader up to the room and download the data off of the keypad. All the places I worked at, that's how it was done. It wasn't sent to any sort of server or cloud.
I got lost in the arguments... Would there be timestamps on entries into the room? Because timestamps and videos could get you somewhere. Maybe not, but what would it hurt?
Yeah when you check into a hotel room in Vegas you typically get 2 hotel keys for that room unless you ask for more, then they'll give them to you. The keys have a temporary access code on them and if you use one on the keypad, it will leave a timestamp and tell you which key was used. But like I said before that doesn't mean much if there's no videos in the hotel.
I agree with what you're saying. But if you match that with videos, one day we could have something. I know there's an "if" in there, still worth having if possible.
Maybe where you work, but those things have to communicate with a server to check if a key is still valid. Were there other keys (besides housekeeping) that could open that door that would allow someone else in? (Even housekeeping isn't foolproof, they make skimmers for every reader imaginable)
I don't have much experience with the key in systems personally. I have worked investigations and security and surveillance. When we need information on key-ins, we leave it to the locksmith to come up and run the info. So maybe there's a step im missing. I wasn't a tech guy.
While there are systems that report back,they are usually of the type used in situations where access is needs to be strictly controlled due to either the sensitive nature of whatever is being protected or because of the monetary value of what is being protected.
Believe it or not,a hotel room doesnt fall into either of those categories.
You could check when the room was entered and cross reference that with surveillance video of him entering/leaving the casino to determine if another person had accessed the room. Any competent investigator would do this.
Right, but it would still be interesting to track all of his actions leading up to this event. We can never have too much information. Heck, I'd like to see his location Services on his phone for the months leading up to this shooting.
Most hotels don't keep records of every time every door was opened with a key card. That would require an incredibly complex and expensive system compared to one that just opens doors.
Why do people keep lying about this? The electronic doors used in hotels keep track of when they're accessed and by what type of key. There's no "reporting back" necessary. The information is stored on the lock and it can be retrieved electronically by employees if the need arises. Source: the hotel where I have been working for the past decade has allowed me to personally witness the engineers using a special device to retrieve such information from room locks. They call it lock interrogation.
I've been in hotels in suburbs that have cameras in the halls of hotels. You're telling me Vegas is going to stop footage at the elevator. Give me a break.
Yeah I'm telling you that most of them do not have hallway coverage in the hotel towers. I don't need to "give you a break" when I've literally spent the last 6 years of my life working In Atlantic City and Vegas. I can't speak to the hotel that the shooter was in, as I haven't been in that one specifically.
Some excellent disinformation tactics right there, insulting my intelligence! Make sure to say hi to TMOR for me, and let them know I had to take a bath in aloe vera because that burn was so sick!
So most modern hotels have key cards. I would love to see the hotel run a report of how many keys were issued. Most times when you check in, they give you at least two. Im curious to see if there were more than two keys issued.
I would like to see it as well. Mostly because I work surveillance and one thing Vegas doesn't skimp on is surveillance. If they try to say the footage doesn't exist I will become highly highly skeptical because i know for a 100% fact that anyone who checked into that hotel WILL be on surveillance no fucking exceptions.
is it possible that the powers that be don't see a need for the public to see that footage? For one, they are still pouring over it themselves, 40 hours after the crime. For another thought, why do they need to share that with us? This crime has been committed, no one in the public caught it before hand, and no in law enforcement was any better at it.
Right now, each and every one of us is just having conversation because we don't care about NFL players kneeling at a game. And nobody got in a fight at Charlottesville this weekend. And nothing else we have talked to death is as hot of a topic as this one.
the point would be to start piecing together what people thought happened, with actual pieces of facts. If he checked in with one single small bag or something, well then how the weapons got up there becomes a whole different story. Its not about confirming the entire investigation based of the video of him checking in, its about creating a timeline and validating things you believe to be true.
I mean if you think a guy walking up to a room with a couple big bags automatically confirms they're full of rifles then sure. You're not going to see someone carrying guns through the lobby. If he looked innocent enough to check in, the video will be innocent enough to still leave tons of speculation.
Some random guy yeah it is meaningless. But if the suspected shooter carrying several large bags into his room is a totally different story. 19 long guns even broken down still would take up a bunch of bags. It is so odd you would be so against looking at security camera footage because it would be "useless", it just simply wouldn't be, it would serve some purpose.
If he looked innocent enough to check in, the video will be innocent enough to still leave tons of speculation.
You're making a ton of assumptions, you literally do not know that.
Why does it matter where he parked? They physically had to pass through the entrances to get to his room. I really don't see how that makes a difference unless you're implying there was an entrance he found in the parking lot that had 0 cameras ever on him.
Cameras are everywhere ... I'm not saying it's a conspiracy because they haven't released that footage by ANY means - I'm just thoroughly shocked they wouldnt have cameras throughout the entire buildng
Okay well it's a budget thing. Why would they put cameras in the hotel towers when it doesn't benefit them financially? A casino/resort is a business. Of course downstairs is LITTERED with surveillance but it costs millions and millions to build a surveillance infrastructure throughout a giant hotel and if they don't care what goes on up there, (most don't) why spend the money? I'm just telling you what I KNOW from experience and years in the career field. You guys can keep speculating and acting like you're the experts but I have no reason to lie to anyone about it.
I could envisage situations where someone fakes a bad fall or physical/sexual assault incident in the hopes that the casino will give them a settlement. Cameras could protect against that.
Not saying you're wrong of course, but that would be a potential financial incentive for a wider security system.
I'm literally a casino surveillance expert. It's literally my job. I don't pretend to know everything about everything but this is something I can speak about with expertise. You want to choose to ignore me and act like you know what you're talking about go for it I don't give a shit.
Half these neckbeards have never travelled with a wife/spouse and their 20,000+ bags of luggage. If a high spender rolls into a large suite, its pretty damn well accepted that there will be lots of luggage
My ex-wife did this crap. A bag for shoes, a bag for makeup, a bag for dressy clothes, a bag for regular day wear, some el gigante purse... bitch, we're staying for two nights. Two. You don't need to bring 11 dresses. Even five gives you enough choices, you know?
Or, the people coming into Vegas for a trade show. Some have their entire booths packed into a giant Pelican case. There are ones out there that would hold every rifle he had, and another, say 2 for the ammo/magazines.
I might carry one that I may or may not have in a tennis racket case to go or not go to the range. Bunch of nervous nannies in the apartment complex I may or may not live in that would throw a shit fit if they saw me carrying or not carrying a rifle case through the courtyard.
Smart. I used a guitar case, when I lived in a typical big city where everyone drinks some frothy bullshit from Starbucks and the thought of firing a weapon made them soil their pants.
If he had as much ammo as they claim, the videos could show the older man slightly struggling to carry it up. Ammo is heavy as fuck. Even for handguns. If he had thousands of rounds for 10 rifles, that shit would not be something easy to be carrying around
Unfortunately I don't have links to the various future TWP, NYT, THP, Buzzfeed, Snopes articles that have not come out yet that will most likely contain something equally ridiculous as this statement.
I know this is /r/conspiracy but for Vegas its a normal thing to see someone bringing (that many) guns into a hotel. Vegas is a huge hub for gunshows. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
Yeah but the only reason the Sandy Hook conspiracy is "insensitive" is because it's allegedly a hoax. We already know this isn't a hoax because theres tons of actual footage of people being shot and dying. People don't generally say that false flag conspiracies are insensitive, they only get testy when you allege that the victims didn't actually die.
The number one rule of any footage released to the public is: Don't show videos of people getting shot.
It's traumatic for anyone who knows the person, even more so for the ones who survived. I remember a while back, a news company did actually show it and the backlash from that was EXTREME.
What are you talking about? There were no recordings at Sandy Hook so there were no videos for them to seal. The police actually released videos of them investigating the school and the shooter's home.
The school had a brand new security system installed including a camera that would take a photo of someone walking to the front door. Since Lanza supposedly entered the school through the front door there should be clear footage of him. Yet it has never been released.
The school had a brand new security system installed including a camera that would take a photo of someone walking to the front door.
There was one camera, on the front door, that had no recording capability. It was simply used to visually observe who was at the front door. This is a typical setup for front door cameras used on buildings everywhere.
literally how it works in CT. there's a camera at the front door so you can see who you buzz in. otherwise, everyone in the buildings are either kids or teachers, and who the fuck pays into the education budget so much for full security cameras and 100% monitoring up time? Not CT, I can tell you that. Not even my HS had an all day camera station.
I’m not even on the “Sandy Hook was a hoax” bandwagon, but I didn’t know there was NO footage until your comment. I assumed it was sealed. What kind of school doesn’t have cameras in this day and age? My middle school had them in 2001.
I would think a lot of schools. Like most in rich suburbs where there aren't many issues that the school would feel the need to get cameras.
According to this, about 75% have cameras. But that doesn't make it clear (at least from my quick glance) if Sandy Hook, because it has this monitoring device on the front door, would be included.
My school was in a rich white suburb, even more reason to have cameras because they probably have a decent budget. My sister is in high school and they’ve had locked doors at all times, metal detectors, and multiple cameras for almost a decade in a very rich suburb.
You are confusing the ability to afford it with the need for it.
I grew up in a rich white suburb. Almost nothing went on at my school except for the occasional fight, or kids smoking pot in the parking lot. It would have been completely silly for us to have had cameras installed everywhere, even if they were able to afford it.
But, anyway, I gave you the numbers and there is no evidence that Sandy Hook had any cameras, other than the front door one, which had no recording capabilities. Whether or not they should have is another story.
I’m not confusing anything. I have cameras and guns in my home and have never NEEDED to use them, nor do I expect to. It’s a precautionary step I’d much prefer my children’s school to have.
The school had installed 16 cameras. They released a grainy photo of him entering the school but that's it.... They should just release the video. It's withheld for national security...
Why would they need to release it, particularly this soon? Why would they ever need to release it to anyone other than those investigating the incident?
Oh hello Top Minds is Reddit person! Of course you’re here to naysay, it’s what you guys do. Daren’t veer away from the official line. Good little useful citizen.
You should try using an alt if you want anyone to take you seriously.
You’re very sensitive to “personal attacks”, considering that’s all TMOR users do. There’s absolutely no point in engaging with you as you’re not here for genuine conversation.
Oh, I'm no "sensitive" to them, I was just pointing out that, rather than address the actual argument, you resorted to personal attacks alone. It sort of puts you in a weak position as far as your argument goes.
And I'm absolutely here for genuine conversation. I've been following /r/conspiracy much longer than I ever knew /r/TMoR ever existed (though admittedly, I did take a break from /r/conspiracy for a bit when it was overrun by white supreamcists/anti-semitism, which seems to have died down).
So, back to the argument you made: if you think that you are entitled to any and all information, even information currently being used in an investigation opened less than 24 hours ago, where do you draw the line? Can I have your tax returns? If not, why is THAT information off the table, but you feel entitled to the video from the hotel?
it's how they work - they are entitled to ALL the evidence NOW before the investigation is complete so that they can make up another far fetched story of how the Deep State is controlling us.
Hm, I don't believe it is. Do you have a source (case law or something like that) that shows police are allowed to disseminate evidence during an investigation?
I think they are allowed to but not required to. For instance they can release a photo or video of a suspect if they want the public's help finding him, but I don't think they have an obligation to "prove" anything to the public except at a trial.
Just from short clips when the shooting starts there's a definitive sound of at least 2 guns dumping rounds out. He's not dual wielding rifles with that power, AND the picture of his hotel floor shows TWO windows busted out, on opposite sides of the room.
No there's not the definitive sound of 2 rifles. Some of us have been in extended I'm firefights in urban areas and understand how acoustics work in that situation. You don't
Man, you haven’t really read shit about this have you? It’s explained and highly believable that the echo of gunfire and actually sound of bullets clapping above concert goers more than makes up for the multiple shooters. Also, why wouldn’t he break two windows for multiple vantage points? If every window was broken out, could really say that there was 10 shooters?
What I don't get, help me out now, is they found 23 weapons correct? Does it not seem like a long gap in between reloading? Wouldn't he just drop a gun and grab another?
If there were 23 guns I'd think he'd have them all loaded and ready to go, and yes I would think he'd just swap them out as they ran out of ammo to reduce time between shots.
The thing is that I hear two guns overtop of one another. One sounds crank operated, and the other sounds like it's firing in controlled bursts.
I stay out of this sub typically, but I feel I need to comment on this. Supersonic ammunition will make two sounds independent from one another that becomes more distinct the further you are from the discharge. Meaning, you'll hear the ammo hit BEFORE you hear the discharge because it is traveling faster than sound.
This explains the delay of the sound, and why sounds of slugs impacting the concrete are intermingled with the discharges. It gets very confusing to establish point of origin once you factor supersonic ammunition and acoustics.
The video is 10 minutes long, but don't hear anymore shots after 5m30s. Person filming drives off after that. Also, there were long pauses between the automatic bursts.
It sounded like the guns were heavy machine guns too. Those things are huge and literally impossible to buy unless you're dealing with super high level people
Lol who in TF uses the word "Larper"? That's probably the dumbest shit I've heard all day. Secondly I saw ex military people saying it sounded like M240 gunfire so I listened to M240 gunfire and I'd say it sounds identical. How about instead of trying to personally insult somebody you tell me why it's not M240 and what gun or guns were used? If I'm wrong which I could be why not tell me why I'm wrong instead of calling me a "Larper"? Which is also just an inaccurate statement.
It's up to 65,000 dollars to buy one though. I wasn't talking about a tax stamp. I'm talking about the price of the gun which I'm certain it was clear that's what I was stating. Also it's heavily regulated and difficult to get a fully auto light machine gun. You were right it wouldn't be a heavy machine gun it would be a light machine gun. What guns do you think were used?
"He didn't have any crazy bags with him that I can remember. We are a convention hotel so we have a bunch of people that have boxes and multiple carts worth of stuff. There's nothing weird that I can remember," Nishimura said."
http://www.kitv.com/story/36505487/hawaii-native-parked-shooters-car
And do you really expect all valets to have a detailed recollection of all the people and suitcases they deal with on a daily basis? If you've worked any sort of retail job with lots of customers, you'd know that you pretty much forget someone 7 seconds after they walk away unless they draw some sort of special attention to themselves.
Absolutely, but that won't make your recollection any more accurate. You can't remember what you didn't even pay attention to in the first place, although you can certainly convince yourself that you did remember.
There are a great many studies about eyewitness testimony in particular, but more generally about memory recollection and the role attention plays in perception.
The fact that he's trying to filter his recollection through information he found out later makes it less reliable, not more.
You can also convince yourself that you remembered extra details when in fact you pulled them out of thin air, or were suggested them by your questioner.
The details themselves don't even need to be suggested--even the wording of the questions they use can influence your recollection.
The classic psychology study for this was in 1974 by Loftus and Palmer.
In the second iteration of the experiment, different groups were shown a video of a car accident and asked to estimate the speed of the vehicles and what they saw afterwards. By changing one word, in asking "what happened when the cars smashed each other" vs "what happened when the cars hit each other", people estimated the cars were going much faster, and even described seeing things that hadn't happened, like seeing broken glass on the ground.
I don't think you get how many fucking people flow from in and out of that hotel lol there is no way you could remember every interaction with that guy unless he was wearing a fucking Captain Crunch hat every day LOL
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i posted a comment about shots echoing and thundering off of walls as it travels giving false impression of where shots are being fired from. Your average person doesn't have the experience or training to pin point fire location. So people calling in on their cell phones could be misleading the police.
Don't believe that stuff....People make videos on Youtube to get views. I wasn't there but i have shot an light machine gun while serving, and the thunder and clapping of the rounds bouncing off of walls and streets could have given a false pretense there were multiple shooters. One video i saw on YouTube claims the the police scanner audio calls for a shooter about a 3rd of the way up and half way up. He even points out flashes from the building. What you don't see anywhere are broken windows like from the 32nd floor. So until they share actual evidence of a 2nd shooter I'm not convinced.
I know what part you're talking about, and I just showed you a video that proves there was only one gun. He is shooting in a sweeping motion towards the camera at some distance. The part where you think you hear a second gun is just ricochet and the bullets breaking the sound barrier.
If there was a camera right below the shooter, how well would that pick up other shooters? You can't discount other evidence because yours fits your agenda.
If there were ricocheting bullets sounds, then there would be some consistency (I would think). We need to look deeper here, as we know our government has consistently lied to us.
Yeah... could have had them in the storage area on the first floor, then called them up one at a time with different bellboys throughout the day. Snowboards, golf clubs, guitars, plenty of cases are big enough to fit guns and not look like guns.
I’m a firm believer that this was an inside job. So many people claiming that “10ft” walls barricaded them inside the concert area. Some dumbass putting a spot light right into the middle of the crowd? Making them an even easier target? My mind is all over the place about this.
No sir, I’ve never been to a huge concert event before. My apologies for not knowing the protocol to keep people from moving in. I’m just saying, most people that paid to attend knew where the exits were FOR THE MOST PART and the majority are saying that there was no way out. All I’m saying.
There was a way out, but it was meant to empty the venue in twenty minutes at the end of the concert, not RIGHT FUCKING NOW like people who are being shot at want.
Right! I didn’t even think of that. I really appreciate all you guys helping clarify a few things in my thoughts. I guess I’m just still shocked about all of this and I’m trying to build conclusions of my own.
So the police can do drug raids that included shootouts and deaths of the alledged criminals and then later pose with the cache of weapons, drugs and $$ yet we still have NO details on the alleged guns pulled from this room. Something is fishy.
They work by posting every single shred of evidence online so internet detectives can get to work and bring proper justice, just like during the Boston bombings and going to day cares believed to be associated with pizzagate with guns!
dont look into any threads on muellers investigation, they wonder why they arent releasing everything they get as they get it and conclude that they have nothing and its going nowhere
Have you ever been in a Vegas hotel lobby? It's usually extremely busy. This dude could have gone to his car and back a few times over the course of three days and brought up the weapons very easily without anyone batting an eye.
Exactly. A lot of people in this thread saying "well he could have made 15 trips, you're just going to see him carrying a bunch of bags like the other 100 guests in the lobby." Okay? Great, show us that footage.
I used to be on your side. But then every time this happens you end up dissapointed. I'll come back and retract this statement if they show us video of him bringing each bag in.
It is never enough for you though. They could show him bringing three bags in and you'd scoff and say it should have at least taken five bags...You'd just pull something else out of your ass without caring about any facts.
What is the crazy thing about it? What's the reason you don't think that is a possibility?
Regarding the footage not being released, who knows, an investigation is or must be going on, maybe after it is done they may release it, or they are hiding it for a reason. We'll have to wait.
That's bullshit, they can release security cam footage. They do it all the time when robberies happen. Releasing the footage would only help prove their story. But they cant because the story is bullshit
You're kidding right? We already have 46838 stories as to how he could have done this, light suggesting on motivee, background check stories on family members... Don't piss on my leg.... Release the camera footage that shows him in the place they claim he was. It's proof.
Then I'm sure it will be released once the investigation is finished if it is indeed in the public interest. OMG 36 hours later and they haven't finished their investigation into the largest mass shooting in US history yet??! What a conspiracy!!
Well the prompted an interesting picture. Guy flings shit on wall, oh wait what's this here, the shit looks like a gun, no wait a guy with a gun. Takes a big whiff of the shit on the wall, it smells like shit, this must mean something, hmmmm but what.... Governments in on this one for sure.
Is it just me, or does anyone find it strange that the ONLY popular photo being circulated through MSM is of Patterson with his eyes closed. I mean they interviewed his brother. His brother seems to be knowledgeable of the other brother...so why not ask him if he's got a pic. 68, no MO, worked at Military Industrial Complex as accountant/auditor. "Not even a parking ticket..." sayeth the bro.
Well, you are in r/conspiracy. Also, Lockheed isn't exactly the most trustworthy company, employing the likes of John Ramsey and his Father in Law. Also, they're involved in multiple government contracts, and we all know the fine print in those contracts (most of the time) is fairly suspicious.
I'm not you g to jump to conclusions...yet. I will say it makes for an interesting take on the whole situation, but it's nothing concrete. Just take that information and keep it tucked away until it's relevant. If it is, it will be brought back up.
Sorry in advance for mistakes and such, on mobile.
My friend works for Lockheed and he’s sure as fuck not fit enough to be a super soldier. This 60 year old dude isn’t some top FBI recruit man. Auditors are a huge deal, especially in pibically owned companies.
lol my friend who worked at Lockheed is just another worthless stoner (and aren't we all) who just sat and watched YouTube in between making his required rounds.
You do need to have some sort of clearance background though for much of that work. In my friend's case it was 4 years in the chair force weather division.
With the amount of conventions in LV, it's pretty easy to get in whatever you want i assume. Noone is looking through your luggage. You could say "baseball card convention" and have them carry your guns up. people are so docile now too..
they won't release these tapes because the real criminals behind this have already confiscated the tapes probably on the basis of national security. As for Stephen, the man is a patsy. I'm surprised more people didn't die, the way the crowd just sat there.
Where's the usual CT skepticism? Wouldn't the hotel be "in on it", and if they released a video it would show nothing out of the ordinary, just a guy slightly/closely matching the MSM's description of the guy they say did it, who then conveniently committed suicide?
If it shows nothing but him carrying in bags 5 times. Then that all we see. I am not asking for a smoking gun. But they have high res video and everyone knows it. So we just wanna see it. Its like a dashcam only way better megapixels and not shaky.
You bring up a good point. I wonder if the hotel is under water financially. Because this is horrible press and they are probably gonna be sued into oblivion.
Haha, so ironic. But seriously, I don't think this thread is advocating surveillance, it is asking why the msm hasn't released cam footage like they usually would.
I mean I do not agree with the Patriot act, but I still ask why terrorists are able to blow up pipe bombs in Manhattan. Isn't the NSA or DHS supposed to catch this stuff?
So the going idea that the NSA/DHS/alphabet agencies are monitoring all communications traffic isn't true, or they can't possibly filter out all terror comms from every platform - which makes sense, if you take half a second to think about how many communications platforms actually exist.
Sounds pretty straw manish. No one is advocating 24/7 surveillance. It’s already here. It’s time for them to show us what the mass surveillance is all for.
Christtttt haha I never said I’m cool with it man. I guess my comment didn’t state I’m 100% against it (which I am) I’m just saying it’s already there. They claim we need it. It’s not insane for people to want it to be used now. Someone probably has video of me jerking it that I have no idea about. We’re under surveillance 24/7. There should be footage of this guy.
So maybe the deep state is giving these shooters some kind of medication that makes them go super violent. So that Congress feels justified in passing anti 2nd amendment legislation.
That would be a start. Hell with how many guns they're claiming he supposedly had, there should be a good amount of footage of him back and forth whether it was over several weeks/days etc. Hopefully we'll see it, but I'm not holding my breath. Fully expecting it to be grainy and low light if they do release it since this is 1990 and not 2017.
At first I thought Paddock was a Leftist/Communist Terrorist, but apparently he had ammonia nitrate in his car. Now I'm kind of thinking this was another set up like Oklahoma City.
Am i the only one that sees the real problem with this narrative? He didnt need 17 rifles to do this. Hell he didnt even need 5 rifles to do this. An AR with a slide fire and several drums would have fit the bill. If he was worried about the barrel getting too hot, then sure bring an extra rifle. But 17?!? Bullshit. The guy wasnt stupid by any means. Why would you risk bringing in that much hardware when two at most wouldve done it. Am I supposed to believe he was going to tape them together like ridley on aliens and go to the gambling floor hipfiring all the bluehairs sitting at the slots? Gimme a break. The guy wasnt the father from boondock saints.
I hate to say it but that could've been exactly the plan. The smoke from the guns and the smoke detector giving away his location would be the thing he didn't count on. There was also explosive material found in his car, so I think it's obvious there was some further plan after leaving Mandalay Bay, it just never got that far.
Are they though? I've heard this before, but I know not all Vegas hotels are created equal. Mandalay Bay may seem fancy, but in terms of Strip hotels it's probably considered 2nd or 3rd tier at this point.
Again, i doubt he was that careless if he planned it out logically. I find it hard to believe he was planning on going mobile at any point. The average number of firearms used or brought by mass shooters is roughly around four. Granted, there have been more shooters that conducted their assault on foot with smaller firearms as opposed to a static position such as this. A static position makes more sense to have a larger cache as fatigue isnt as much a factor as in a mobile attack. But 23 is much higher than the norm. The room screams last stand yet there was ammonium nitrate and other guns and ammo in the car. That explosive alone wouldve accomplished an incredibly higher loss of life if driven into the crowd and detonated. Its easy to see two very different planned methods of attack which doesnt fit.
I could see him planning everything out methodically and then overlooking one small detail. It goes along with him not having much/any military experience.
The thing that really sticks out to me is him having video surveillance in the hallway only to shoot himself prior to SWAT breaching the room. In theory anyone could have used that video surveillance to warn them of oncoming police presence and then exit the room leaving Paddock's body behind with 'self inflicted' gunshot wound to the head. I think these scenarios are the ones police/fbi should be investigating.
My mistake. I thought I heard he had surveillance in the hallway but I don't see any reference to that now. Must have been some of the misinformation floating around following all the confusion.
Let's assume the "lone wolf" crap is true. Let's assume it's a rampage shooting [which yes, is a big assumption to make] and not politically/religiously motivated. The problem is you're looking for a needle of rationality in a haystack of irrationality. Sociopaths are often intelligent, but also do a lot of shit that doesn't make sense. So yes, just because he was effective at achieving his goal doesn't mean he had it planned out all that well.
I'd argue that he went ahead with the "plan" well before it was ready. He obviously was going the explosives route, but for whatever reason abandoned it (praise jesus). Maybe he got spooked and was paranoid his purchases would raise suspicions. Maybe he wanted to do it while the Filino was out of the country. Maybe he just ran out of time. Who knows. Maybe the explosives were going to be a diversion (ie he calls in a bomb threat which prevents police from storming the building). Maybe there was originally a "getaway" in the making and he thought he could confuse the cops on how many shooters there were if he had multiple guns. Or hell, maybe he had 4 weapon configurations he liked for various purposes. IE 4 with bipods+scopes, 4 with bump mods, 4 with close quarters sights etc.,
All his actual "planning was" was to buy a shitload of guns and get a good vantage point. Everything else was thankfully a complete failure.
He was alive, stood trial and got 12 consecutive life sentences + 3,318 years.
Only reason I know anything about the Holmes trial was that my step-mom's grandson was shot while using his body to cover a woman and child. He has lingering neuropathy, but is still going about his life.
So as a disclaimer we can agree that video footage can be doctored/altered/created on the internet and be totally fake. On that note its possible I could have seen a video of what hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Some non-mainstream youtuber I came across during the last election began to act a little strange at one point during a brief period of time; sounding a little worried and hesistant. He usually commented on WikiLeaks and Podesta stuff etc. Then all of a sudden for about a week or so...no new content. Then one day...a video is posted...its about 6-8 seconds long...of a missle hitting the Pentagon. Then another short period of no new content. He's back doing podcasts now with callers and he seems back to his normal self talking about WikiLeaks and other stuff.
What the fuck happened to the wife they were looking for? Marilou Daley was it? I really wanna hear what she says unless shes already shot her self in the back 20 times already.
She wasn't even in the country and is/was visiting family in the Philippines. Could she have knowledge he was going to do this? Possibly, but she has no physical link due to the distance. I am wondering if the guy was unstable mentally and the absence of the lady friend broke whatever was keeping him normal.
We need to find out what kind of guns first. I have quite a few guns myself. Guns can be taken down and then they can be concealed in bags/garment bags. The largest piece obviously being the barrel.
seems strange that the guy who shot the politician disappeared for a while prior, the guy that ran through people with his car disappeared for a while prior, and this guy disappeared for a while prior.
The guy who shot the politicians was shot at the scene and died at the hospital. The guy who ran through the people in a car drove away and was apprehended soon after. This guy was found dead in the hotel room where he was attacking others. What are you talking about?
I do, but there is no context. Prior to being apprehended? Prior to the incident? Prior to being born? Prior to the universe forming? My response is clearly about the time between the incident and being apprehended. Who knows what OP is talking about.
Well obviously it was premeditated. Dude had been there since Thursday. Plus he had to buy all the guns, modify them and get the ammo. It's not like he done money playing blackjack and went crazy.
First, anyone firing into a crowd of country music fans is doing so because they are patriotic white Americans. It is the whitest, most Republican event you can possibly attack. Country music is one of the last remaining cultural symbols of American patriotism, however flawed it may be. You must count that.
Shootings happened right on Yom Kippur. An event in Judaism, when escape goats are killed as a sacrifice to Azazel - Demon of the Desert (Las Vegas). This is ancient Jewish tradition. This is center of their Cult.
More coincidence - this happened right in front of of Luxor Pyramid Hotel (NOT Mandalay Bay Hotel, like News says). Look at this photos:
More - scapegoat are symbol of Sins, that is killed on a Azazel mountain (Luxor Pyramid Hotel) in the Desert (Nevada).
And this happened in City of Sin...Build...by a Jewish gangsters!
It didn't happen in front of the Luxor. The front of the Luxor doesn't have a venue. Mandalay and Luxor are close to each other. It was on Mandalay grounds and because the Luxor is big it looks like they were at the base. They weren't.
I can't find it, but it was a gif that showed the hotel, there was a big sign on the right side, and next to it you could see the flashing coming from the upper floor of the hotel. Let me keep trying to find it.
If they released the tapes, you would demand footage of him opening the bags and pulling out the guns. So tell me, what would be the point of them releasing the footage to appease some random internet poster? You've already decided it was a false flag, and your paranoia has already driven you to fantasize about some shadowy organization staging the shooting for some shadowy agenda that is targeting you for some shadowy purpose.
If you're not going to believe it, then don't believe it.
You will not see it. From a security standpoint, you don't want to advertise a huge gaping hole that cant really be fixed. People wont want to stay in hotels if their luggage is going to be searched.
Normally I'm the first one to say 'what the hell has [X] got to hide by not showing this footage?!', but in this case I actually think there's a fair argument for them not to show the footage.
Most Vegas hotels are basically kept afloat by their prestige. It would do almost nothing for them by showing this video, and would potentially harmful their future business, footage of a terrorist / madman carting stuff past their unwitting security.
Again, I'm all for this footage being released, but they will never, ever do so unless compelled to do so.
It would do almost nothing for them by showing this video, and would potentially harmful their future business, footage of a terrorist / madman carting stuff past their unwitting security.
That, and they may not want to inadvertently reveal wholes in their camera setup to people out to cheat the tables. There's a number of reasons not to release the footage actually.
The biggest thing for me though, is it's a private business. If this were a public camera, like a traffic camera for example, I'd be more willing to push for the release of the footage, since we don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in public and because we've paid for those cameras via taxation. The casino's cameras are theirs, they paid for them. I wouldn't want a huge spectacle over people I don't know demanding me release to the public footage from the CCTV security setup I installed in my own home, so it would be hypocritical of me to demand the casino release theirs.
It won't happen because there prob isn't any. By that I'm not meaning he isn't on their cameras. He is just never on their cameras with anything that might even slightly resemble a rifle which would then shit on the narrative being pushed by the MSM. They are people too who fuck up, BUT they know how to cover their tracks
ummm why would the CIA/FBI/illuminati use a random joe schmoe as their fall man when they could have chosen someone less likely to raise suspicion (random muslim, army vet, etc.)
The difference is, it would make somewhat sense that one person goes crazy and we don't undertand why or the motive. It would not make sense for the CIA to have a whole super secret plan carefully executed where they pick a guy who makes an awful fallman
Actually it makes the whole thing more plausible to the general sheep. Now that they can rule out terrorism, disgruntled military, etc... they can focus solely on gun control, which is what this is probably all about.
There's just so much fishy about the whole situation. I was reading some comments elsewhere, and someone suggested checking out Paddock's tax returns, because the multimillionaire gambler angle was suspect. Another user suggested checking to see if any victims were slated to testify in high profile court cases or something similar. The lack of any discernible motive warrants investigation, and the "he snapped" angle is too convenient.
Oh please, I stay in LV hotels all the time. I don't use bell boys, but they will let you use their carts. Either way, These guns can be easily broken down and put in a duffel bag or rolling suitcase and not raise an eyebrow. What are you inferring? That it didn't happen, or the CIA helped him? I am certain you will see the tapes within the next week or so...
One thing that no one is bringing up is room services.
Was no cleaning service allowed in the room at all? Every hotel or resort I have stayed at has had room service wanting to clean.
if you are just using your hotel for sleeping then you don't really need room service. sometime you just ask the maids in the hall for a fresh towel and say "do not disturb". probably even more common in a casino hotel where you don't want the maid stealing your cash or uncashed in poker chips.
Wow, the comments are extremely frustrating. So many people saying that the footage won't prove the guy did this. That's not the point though! If there's nothing to hide, then they can show the footage. I can't believe people are like "nah I don't want to see the footage, it proves nothing". Fuck that, I want to see EVERYTHING available.
Why? Plenty of people like to party and don't want room service seeing their 'favors'. I leave mine on the door the whole trip because I don't want them to clean around my weed
You've obviously never been to Vegas. Also, this guy was a high roller. Those guys literally get whatever strange request they have, no questions asked. You want 2 rooms? You got it. You want to be left alone? You got it.
I throw up a do not disturb sign every time I go to a hotel for my entire stay. For one, I can clean up my own shit. Two, I don't want to tip a maid. Three, I don't want someone going through my shit.
It shouldn't be anyone's business how many you buy but 60?!? That's outrageous. I could see if you were like an antique collector or something and had accumulated that many over your life but 60 in 2 years is insane.
I really appreciate the comments, I apologize if I have upset anyone. Just simply using my own opinion and looking for answers to my questions as well. If anyone here have family in LV or are from LV I truly am sorry for what you are having to go through right now.
What about the distance between the hotel, and the concert? Can we assume bullets travelling that distance would reach its target accurately? I say there were snippers closer, and this is just a cover/BS story.
What do you think he was aiming for people "from the 30th floor" also full auto fire is completely the way you shoot for accuracy. /s. Wanna know how i can tell you dont have a firearm or have very little experience with them?
A term like area of effect comes to mind. Someone shooting accurately and slowly depending on a range of factors can proficiently hit a quarter at 2-400 yards. Hitting a 500x1000 foot area that is packed with people? That is the metaphorical "Hitting the broadside of a barn".
This whole thing just screamed false flag. I knew it was the second I heard about it at 530 yesterday morning. I had just woken up but still managed to call it like it was.
I get alot of the speculation on this entire situation but him bringing in this many rifles to a hotel room is not that hard to do over several days.
First a rifle can be broken down into smaller pieces pretty easily and stored in a suitcase. Hell depending on the suitcase, you could easily fit more than a couple into one. It's the same thing with the tripod.
Second, everybody talking about "oh they didn't notice this guy bring in several suitcases to his room". Look at the size of that fucking hotel. How many people are leaving/entering daily? How many are lugging suitcases back and forth? How many of you have had hotel parties where groups of people walk by the front counter into a hotel room and the clerk doesn't notice? Now imagine some random old white guy in Vegas(there are plenty I promise) over the course of several days. How much attention do you think was on him?
The real challenge for him would've been the ammo. Ammo is heavy and can take up alot of space. But if he broke it down out of the packaging, again he could fit fucking plenty into one or two suitcases.
There are plenty of questions about this entire situation. How he got that many weapons/much ammo into his room is not really that hard to fathom.
The real challenge for him would've been the ammo. Ammo is heavy and can take up alot of space. But if he broke it down out of the packaging, again he could fit fucking plenty into one or two suitcases.
Were all firearms of the same caliber? If not, why bring them all along with the variety of necessary ammo types when he could have just brought a one or two with a lot of magazines with minimal variety of ammo calibers? That would have been so much lighter and minimalistic. I mean, is that not common sense?
I'm not sure if they were all the same caliber. What you're saying makes sense, I was just refuting the thought that he'd be noticed carrying suitcases to a hotel over several days.
I was just talking about this at work. You can’t tell me there isn’t footage of him coming in the door, checking in, using an elevator etc. I bet we don’t see shit except a blurry photo of him walking through a lobby with a bag that might have a weapon in it.
Hell, I'll take surveillance with a bag at this point. Doubt we'll even get that. Where's Ray Rice punching his wife when you need him? They'd have every angle of that.
Actually, his death photo and photos from the room are already hitting the internet and LVMPD has launched an internal investigation into how these photos made it online. Which tells me the photos are legit
I guess we should all get ready for it: the same way that bags going on airplanes are checked and scanned, or carried on and scanned, they will be doing this in hotels next. Whoever sells those XRay machines is probably a public traded company with lots of politician investors. Every fucking Hampton Inn from Miami to Tacoma will be installing them in the front lobby now. I mean, what's the difference? Yeah, a plane is a moving object, with dozens if not hundreds of people on board. A hotel is just a NON-MOVING object with dozens or hundreds of people inside.
It just turns my stomach when we have a disaster like this, and the stock markets surge, and some companies in particular, like the gun manufacturers, have banner days. It makes people more wealthy from tragedy.
And that's my biggest problem with capitalism. For one to get rich, someone else must suffer. It won't end well.
Anyone else think it's strange that they put those huge spot lights on the crowd from the stage once jason Alden ran off the stage and completely exposed those people?
I'm not sure this would prove anything. What if he was just bringing them to the hotel to setup a deal to sell them to someone? That someone could be seeing him up as a Patsy.
I would like to see the hallway footage outside his hotel room before, during, and after the shooting/beach.
Everyone keeps making it sound like he would look out of place or odd in some way while transporting the guns to the room. Those rifles break down and would easily fit into a normal wheeled suitcase, he had rented the room for many days so him coming and going with a suit case each time wouldn't be at all strange. He wouldn't have looked like a guy checking into a hotel with normal luggage.
i agree. this was definitely pre meditated so he clearly knew what to to do and when to do it shit just doesnt add up. the why is the issue and the motive will be interesting to discuss
I hope these answers can help with some of the questions I'm seeing. I've been in the hotel business for 15 years, from a bellman all the way to a General Manager. I hope I can answer the following questions with some insight from my career:
Why didn't anyone stop and question someone transporting luggage full of guns?
A: Very few hospitality employees would ever question a guest walking through a lobby. People transport massive amount of baggage and boxes throughout the day. In an operation on the scale of the Mandalay Bay, he could have had 20 duffle bags full of guns and no one would bat an eyelash. Vendors for a trade show alone often have that much.
Why didn't anyone question why a single traveler would rent two rooms?
A: Simply put, hotels don't care. If your credit card goes through and you want two rooms, more power to you. It's not as uncommon as you think. Especially in a "quirky" guest environment like Vegas.
Did Housekeeping see something suspicious and if so, why didn't they report it?
A: Housekeepers are judged upon their productivity (how long it takes to clean the room). Unless the firearms were completely displayed for all to see, no housekeeper would care. In an environment like the Mandalay Bay and the size of that room, Housekeeping would have about 30 minutes max to clean that room. I'm surprised a person plotting a mass murder would not have a Do Not Disturb sign to be honest.
Remote drones satellite operated from a distance.
Small weapon drone test, Several Drones. No one mentions area 51 transport planes near the area named Janet Air - government run airline who transports people to area 51 to a weapons testing facility......
You need a live scenario for testing the weapons with the drone possible a test for North Korea as well as other governmental agendas.
I screen shot a pic from google maps of a traffic camera opposite of the tower where shots were fired. I be this camera would have it in the view of where shots were fired along with how many windows shots were being fired from.
Doesn't matter if video is released. There will be people here who will figure out the make and model of the suitcase, it's dimensions and yell about the suitcases being too small to transport that many gubs.
I'm a little dissapointed That no one here has come up with the "Tom Petty did it" conspiracy. I mean his death the same time as this Vegas shooting? Clearly Tom Petty snapped and killed those people. His family and record label scared of losing all that money then paid off the coronor to claim heart attack. Come on sheeple!! Tom Petty did it. It's right in front of your face!
The only thing I wonder is... How come almost every other bad thing that's happened the media blamed "alt-right, Nazi, Trump supporters" but for this one I've heard nothing of him being an "alt-left, anti-trump, Democrat"
Paddock owned many rifles. Owning does not mean that he has any experience or competency in loading/reloading, shooting accurately, etc. One photo showed a rifle with a 'red-dot' type sight, not a scope. Hitting targets at 300 yards, even within a couple hundred square foot area, takes some practice. With .308 ammo especially, keeping on target with a high rate of fire, is very difficult with the amount of recoil. Even when using a bipod. He had no military or other relevant experience that anyone has shown. If he had visited rifle ranges or gun clubs, it seems that such info would have come out by now. No one has said that they had ever seen him go out shooting, maybe it was out in the remote desert ? Were any targets or (used) gun cleaning supplies found in his home? He had a fishing license once. What is missing?
This is like the pentagon not releasing footage of plane, why give others tips on how to get your weapons into hotel? He could have broken them down to pieces anyway so there is probably nothing to see
It is irrelevant. Unless ur saying he didn't bring the guns in himself. There is no evidence to be gained by seeing the guy give the car to valet and carry his luggage in. It is all very normal hotel activity.
What, in your opinion, makes a weapon "high-powered?" Is it the caliber its chambered in? The rate of fire? What? This term is nothing more than a scary sounding buzz-word used by the media to demonize guns. An AR-15 chambered in .223/5.56 is not really that "high-powered" compared to pretty much any basic deer rifle. Much less something like a military machine gun chambered in 7.62. And that term is most often used in reference to your everyday semi-automatic AR-15.
Thanks. I keep my mouth shut about stuff when I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is something I have particular insight into because of my line of work. Just trying to think rationally and go one step at a time until more info comes out. This sub needs to go back toward skepticism and critical thinking instead of the echo chamber of fanatics that think everything is a conspiracy by nature just because It was posted here. Some things in this world are super fishy, some are simple and as they seem.
It's up to 65,000 dollars to buy one though. I wasn't talking about a tax stamp. I'm talking about the price of the gun which I'm certain it was clear that's what I was stating. Also it's heavily regulated and difficult to get a fully auto light machine gun. You were right it wouldn't be a heavy machine gun it would be a light machine gun. What guns do you think were used?
On several weapons it's super easy to file down the sear face to such a fine touch that it's technically still semi-auto but in use it's effectively full auto.
The downside is you usually lose all control.
Once you start the clip. It's going to fire until empty. You can't stop it.
Agreed. Even fucking McDonald's has cams everywhere. How can this major high-rise resort not have something to show us. Maybe because he was dragged in by someone else, or maybe he came in in a bag.
I’m sorry I’ve missed some crucial info and have already felt suspicious of this before even investigating this very much, but he was shot in the back with a self inflicted shot gun blast?
Or most people here have obviously never been in a strip hotel lobby, the lobbys are massive with literally hundreds of people with bags/luggage everywhere.
Absolutly nothing would stand out about this guy, no matter how many trips he took outside to his car or how many bags he brought in
There are outlets like the Guardian (vehemently independent of UK government, broke Snowden/many Iraq stories), it's direct competition (e.g. The Telegraph, the Observers, the Times -
all with their own editorial freedom, responsibilities, credibility, accountability standards in all news stories) - the media watchdogs that overlook them, the independent journalists, freelancers, Nordic outlets (Norway, Finland, Sweden - considered among the free-est in the world) which is all a drop in ocean compared to the thousands of outlets all over the world
Many of these scouring, researching, interviewing, cross-checking - the emergency responders, the police, investigators, hospital staff, doctors, the hundreds of people injured in wards, witnesses, neighbours, friends, etc
So far in the last 17 years or so I've seen every major terrorist attack and shooting (911, 7/7 London, Madrid train bombings, Sandy hook, Boston Bombing, Columbine, Charlie Hebdo, Aurora, Paris attacks, multiple recent London attacks, and many more) labelled as false flags or inside jobs on forums within hours of the event
The typical progression is that shortly after the attack posters start proclaiming the event is "fishy" or "strange". Other's group-validate that. Others point out not to trust the media/authorities (stage we are at now), then down the line comes the photos with the circles in them and youtube videos with collections of "discrepancies/doubts/holes" in order to discredit the "official" version of events, then interest dwindles until the next major attack/shooting
And twitter, and the police, and the country music stars that heard the shooting, and the tens of thousands of witnesses, and the nurses, EMTs, and the doctors at the hospitals, and the reporters and the FBI and the governor. They're all in on it and you guys are totally the sane rational ones
Are they though? I've heard this before, but I know not all Vegas hotels are created equal. Mandalay Bay may seem fancy, but in terms of Strip hotels it's probably considered 2nd or 3rd tier at this point.
Then I'm sure it will be released once the investigation is finished if it is indeed in the public interest. OMG 36 hours later and they haven't finished their investigation into the largest mass shooting in US history yet??! What a conspiracy!!
Yeah I'm wondering if they returned fire through the door and came in and found him dead from the exchange. Decided it was better to say self inflicted.
Many people called saying they saw more shooters. These 'shooters' were SWAT teams with guns entering the hotel. I also heard off-duty cops were in the area with weapons.
Just because some civilian saw someone with a gun, doesn't mean it was another shooter.
We're all mocking those few redditors who claim he could not possibly have gotten his rifles up to his room undetected over the 4 days he was staying there.
Why? Plenty of people like to party and don't want room service seeing their 'favors'. I leave mine on the door the whole trip because I don't want them to clean around my weed
You've obviously never been to Vegas. Also, this guy was a high roller. Those guys literally get whatever strange request they have, no questions asked. You want 2 rooms? You got it. You want to be left alone? You got it.
It makes r/conspiracy nearly worthless. There are real conspiracies out there but these wild assed users with crazy speculation makes this place look like a lunatic bin.
I throw up a do not disturb sign every time I go to a hotel for my entire stay. For one, I can clean up my own shit. Two, I don't want to tip a maid. Three, I don't want someone going through my shit.
969 comments
1 Youwontsmokemypineal 2017-10-03
Why
1 gerryn 2017-10-03
Why not?
1 AlvinItchyCock 2017-10-03
Why why not?
1 tenyj 2017-10-03
Frayed knot
1 beamybeams 2017-10-03
no
1 seekthetruthnotlies 2017-10-03
whats so hard to imagine? he had the room for a few days before the shooting and lived 1 hour away. You could break down the guns and transport them 2 suitcases at a time
1 SexualMurder 2017-10-03
Ok then show us that.
1 YPG-Got-Raqqa 2017-10-03
Give it a few days. First they have to scour days of footage and then it need to make its way to the press.
1 SexualMurder 2017-10-03
I'm not gonna hold my breath.
1 YPG-Got-Raqqa 2017-10-03
Yeah I just imagine that even if they prioritize releasing these videos (which they won't because remember, our media is profit driven and boring videos like that doesn't drive views) we probably wouldn't see them for at least 48-72 hours.
Although the alleged shooter is dead, I'm sure they will be going over these tapes to determine if there were accomplices. You don't want to reveal every piece of info to the public right off the bat.
1 MuscaApis 2017-10-03
I don't think /u/seekthetruthnotlies has the footage.
1 SexualMurder 2017-10-03
Or is that what they want you to think?!
1 MuscaApis 2017-10-03
Cue X-files theme!
1 SexualMurder 2017-10-03
I want to believe.
1 sternail 2017-10-03
What's so hard about transporting some bags/suitcases to a big hotel?
1 SexualMurder 2017-10-03
Nothing lol. The tape would put to rest any theories about accomplices.
1 KittyHasABeard 2017-10-03
Yeah it's not difficult to imagine at all, the point is if that's what happened then ther'll be footage of it. People want to see evidence that it was him that carried this out alone. If he did carry it out alone, there will be footage of him carrying large bags, either enough at once to account for all the equipment in the room, or enough over a period of time to account for them. It shouldn't be hard at all to pull up that footage. And if there is no footage that accounts for him having brought those guns in, then the footage needs to be examined for who did bring the guns in, i.e. what other people carrying bags went into that room?
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
Sounds like shit the police is doing right fucking now. Not your job, its theirs. Give it some time, maybe more than 48 hours.
1 Afrobean 2017-10-03
That would require many trips. I'd love to see surveillance footage of him making many trips himself.
1 MissType 2017-10-03
And carrying bags to his room on each return.
1 jzerocoolj 2017-10-03
uhh... https://i.imgur.com/FSHlJ9J.png
1 kloular 2017-10-03
Not really. Luggage carts can hold a lot of luggage.
1 Afrobean 2017-10-03
You're being glib. It's quite clear that I just want to see videos of exactly HOW those weapons got into the room and also specifically WHO did it. I don't care whether they were moved by hand, by cart, or by telekinesis, I just want to see whoever did it doing it.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
I do get what ur saying. But if it was a bellhop...perhaps people would say he isn't really a bellhop but instead someone in on it. I understand wanting to see...I just don't see how it will answer anything. On a side note...just saw on the news that a lot of hotels are now checking inside bags and are going to try to implement a rule that if u don't let them in ur room for more than 48hrs they can come in anyway and check. Smh
1 Kyle6969 2017-10-03
I imagine you're typing this while inserting objects into the shaft of your cock. Imagination is super fun.
1 mconeone 2017-10-03
Grody
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
Then show us footage of him entering the hotel looking normal. oh wait they can't.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
!remind me 12 days
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
They won't because it's an inside job, but not the way you're thinking. They chose Mandalay Bay because it hosts Defcon every year. Darknet connected mafia from China has slowly been moving in more an more in the city and now we witnessed our first turf war between feds and reds.
1 Maximilitron 2017-10-03
Source to validate your statement?
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
his brother, Stephen was "just a guy," an "army of one" with no known children despite a string of relationships. Someone you might see nursing a drink alone at a bar. Someone who went on cruises and played $100-a-hand video poker. Someone who sent boxes of cookies to his mother.
From his brother. He was also a known regular of the machines there. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2017/10/02/us/las-vegas-attack-stephen-paddock-trnd/index.html
Where it gets weird is all the other "former investors" who ended up being darknet, also live there. It's also where weev attorney is, and she specializes in defending hackers in crypto crimes.
Here's this graph too. It seems he might have been interviewed during a spot the fed game at Def con one year
https://imgur.com/a/nOdv0
Always told people he got a lot of his money collecting coins as a kid... Yeah... Sure
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
And the rabbit hole starts going even deeper and more crazy the more you dig. Can't prove it yet, especially getting more tired as night goes on, but I have a hunch today might have been because of the 6trillion in crypto stolen off of alphabay.
No one knows where it went. But the dude who founded alphabay in Canada, he died when he got caught and murdered in Thailand on a "vacation"
There seems to be a lot of sketchey references on darknet forums about using medical tourism services to get networking for their supply.
And there was a short lived medical tourism place in San Francisco founded by a Chinese/Canadian student with a masters in cryptography that pulled in like 4mil in VC cash but didn't bother renewing their Domain name after a few weeks.
I dont know. I'm still trying to figure wtf is with all that
1 Nostrabrahmus 2017-10-03
6 trillion in crypto? The whole entire market cap for crypto is like $150 billion.
1 SexualMurder 2017-10-03
This is super interesting and I'd like to read some more if you can help me out with a link or two?
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
https://imgur.com/a/nOdv0
This is a quick summary.
Paddock also worked for Lockheed Martin for five years before retiring, then once dark nets take off he suddenly has all this cash to gamble?
Lockheed was also the first defense contractor to adopt blockchain tech. So who knows what he did for them years later in secret. He feds hired him out from Lockheed, it's not too much a stretch to think its cause he was connected in cyber crimes.
Dude also owner a fucking airplane BUT HAD NO PAPERWORK FOR It
https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime/shootings/shooters-brother-we-have-no-idea-how-this-happened/
1 whatthecaptcha 2017-10-03
Got an imgur link that isn't low res? I can barely read that.
1 fjortisar 2017-10-03
He worked for subsidiary of Lockheed Martin in the 80's, well before any cryptocoins or blockchain existed.
Also working in "blockchain tech" doesn't allow you to mysteriously conjure coins out of thin air, not to mention there is no evidence at all that any of this has to do with cryptocurrencies.
Your image says "collected coins", which is laughable. You somehow extrapolate that to think that means cryptocoins? The brother hadn't talked to him for 20 years, and collecting physical coins is a fairly popular hobby.
1 OopsAllSpells 2017-10-03
You're better served reading the replies explaining how it's just a bunch of LARP disinfo.
1 mn2n77 2017-10-03
What's your source for the backup server being in the Mandalay?
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
Nothing solid, you just have to connect the obvious dots. Trying to google anything Mandalay brings up shooting info.
But Defcon is held in that hotel every year, the casino paddock was a regular of, the same hotel that the other hackers involved with darknet shit always made it a point to stay at because status symbol. He was caught at "a hotel" in Vegas while running the server in his room under his legal name. But he wouldn't have only stayed at Mandalay because also it would have been the only place with enough infrastructure to Handel silk roads traffic.
https://www.dailydot.com/crime/blake-benthall-fbi-bust/
1 mn2n77 2017-10-03
You said the server was on the same floor as the shooting though, so I thought you'd have a source?
Or did you make that up lol
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
I'm sorry, it might not have been the same floor. That was tired mistake. It was definitely in that hotel though. It would have been the only place it could have run. Fun exercise to try out to see the hell that is digging for stuff, Google Mandalay Bay anything and watch how the results all mention today
1 Ezekiiel 2017-10-03
I think you should go to bed. So much misinformation you're spreading, it's not healthy
1 CG28 2017-10-03
you can't backup a single one of your assertions. That's damaging. Source your shit.
1 Trippson 2017-10-03
Defcon is held at Caesars Palace every year.
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
I'm not trying to come off saying I know this as fact, these are just what I've put together that makes sense. I mean, does no one think his behavior is a tad more in line with drug dealer about to be caught than just chalking it up to gay frog chemicals in the water again
1 74237935 2017-10-03
So what you're saying is all you have is pure anecdotal evidence. But it must be true because clearly.
1 OopsAllSpells 2017-10-03
You are 100% coming off as stating facts, and when shown to be lying just switch topics and deflect with questions.
1 TheCamelTojo 2017-10-03
You literally said they host defcon at Mandalay. You're exactly what's wrong with being able to talk about conspiracy freely. You're the type of person that tries to pass off false information as facts.
Then when you get call ed out you try to change your tune. Just stop. You have no credibility
1 _D_I_S_T_R_E_S_S_ 2017-10-03
Not a single Defcon has been held at Mandalay
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DEF_CON#Venues.2C_dates_and_attendance
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
Then how come when you Google it they constantly talk about it being there and that being the go to hotel for the event.
Either way, what's your theory on why he snapped then, or more so, how do you explain the ten k a day in gambling
1 cheesearchist 2017-10-03
https://forum.defcon.org/defcon/past-defcon-content/forum-archives/defcon-22-forum-archive/dc22-official-unofficial-parties-social-gatherings-events-contests/dc22-official-and-unofficial-events/unofficial-defcon-shoot-ad/15029-firearms-at-mandalay-bay
You're right. Nothing to see here. They don't flock around that hotel during the event.
1 _D_I_S_T_R_E_S_S_ 2017-10-03
One forum post and two replies looking for a firearm friendly hotel four years ago.
You said Mandalay hosts Defcon every year.
1 74237935 2017-10-03
He was clearly extrapolating based on ancient Egyptian trigonometry algorithms you wouldn't understand
1 Barron__Trump 2017-10-03
those are some mighty big claims with no links or evidence
1 gertywomp 2017-10-03
Wasn't he a millionaire from real estate deals?
1 ma70jake 2017-10-03
From what I've read, he was worth around 4 million. I thought the news yesterday said he got that from suing a casino.
1 beautifulabyss 2017-10-03
I just read an article that said he dropped the suit
1 GadolBoobies 2017-10-03
Mandalay has NEVER held Defcon. You psyop guys failed the moment you pretended to know shit about Defcon.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
Are you under the impression that the darknet is beyond the capabilities of the alphabet soup agencies to monitor?
Hate to be the one who has to break the news,but that isnt the case. The fact that every piece of IT made for sale andd use in the US is required by law to have built in backdoors for use by LEOs,along with the fact that the software architecture for darknet use is relativly simple, makes it way to easy for it to be monitored.
1 superdankjuicynotes 2017-10-03
Ive watched continuous footage, from one camera of the entire incident. Gunfire came from 1, perhaps 2 rifles, of the same caliber and style. What is called a Bump-fire stock was likely used, this is an accessory adapted to various rifle types that allows a semi-automatic rifle to be fired as if it was full auto, without modifying internal parts of the rifle. The varying rate of fire is absolutely a characteristic of these devices. A standard full auto rifle such as the M16, as issued by military, has a continuous rate of fire when on full auto. It is clear form multiple videos that the rate of fire was variable.
1 Army0fMe 2017-10-03
The sheriff stated in the last press conference that two of the rifles were modified to fire full auto.
1 fM7eEOuz4Ktc 2017-10-03
Modified to bump fire?
1 Army0fMe 2017-10-03
No, the internals of the rifle were modified to make it capable of full automatic fire.
1 warl0ck08 2017-10-03
False. I keep seeing this on Reddit, on /r/politics and a bunch of other places. It's super hard to do that, and you would have to be a well trained gunsmith. Honestly, at which point, you would build your own lower anyways.
Anyways, here is your bump stock confirmation:
http://www.denverpost.com/2017/10/03/las-vegas-shooting-gunman-used-bump-stock-device-to-speed-fire/
1 TheRealFatMac 2017-10-03
Just stoking the fire, but the shooter could have just bought the weapons already converted..
But yes, the bumpstock was absolutely used. Undeniable.
1 Th3_Admiral 2017-10-03
Why does everyone keep insisting it was a bump fire stock and that this is indisputable? The weird changing rate of fire sounds much more like the hand crank than a bump fire stock and would make way more sense if he had it mounted on a tripod like mentioned.
1 amaleigh13 2017-10-03
It's being reported as 2 bump-stocks
1 Th3_Admiral 2017-10-03
Ah, thank you! That's the first time I've actually seen it reported on as a fact and not just a guess. I still wonder if that's actually what was used or if they were just on some of the other guns found in his room? Bump firing is horribly inaccurate, especially at 500+ yards. And I still swear the sound in the video I heard was way closer to thank of a crank fired gun.
1 snypesalot 2017-10-03
You dont need precision accuracy shooting from elevation into a sea of people
1 master_explode_her 2017-10-03
You should watch a few videos on youtube. The gat crank sounds nothing like a slide fire bump stock. The cadence of the gat crank is very uneven albeit fast. A bump stock equipped rifle sounds exactly like full auto with little practice. While the burst from a bump stock is a tad slower, its a very consistent pattern just like the firing audio from the videos at the scene.
1 Th3_Admiral 2017-10-03
I know, that's what I'm saying! Except that in the first video I watched when my phone woke me up to the news alert yesterday morning, it definitely sounded like the rate of fire was inconsistent and changing throughout the burst of fire. I'll see if I can find that video again because I know I'm not the only one who thought the same thing.
1 master_explode_her 2017-10-03
Thank you for the link! With the previous videos id seen the audio wasnt very clear because of the distance and reverberation. Probably didnt help I listened through a junk phone. This audio DOES sound more like the gat crank. It is possible to be very bad at using a slide fire and not get the FA cadence though. I have owned a slide fire. It was pretty easy for me to learn and emulate FA. Some of my friends were terrible at it, however, and produced an uneven pattern.
1 SilverbackRibs 2017-10-03
I wouldn't say converting an AR to full auto is super hard to do by any means. The hardest part would be getting all of your paperwork in order.
But bolting on a bump fire stock would be much easier.
1 bfbabine 2017-10-03
Unless he has a special gun manufacturing license you can't modify any weapons to be select fire unless it was registered to a civilian before May 1986. Suspect this was a slide fire or bump fire accessory you can buy for about $500.
1 Bmxracer2000 2017-10-03
sigh you can buy a slide fire stick for about 120 bucks. Or less. You do not need a special ANYTHING to illegally modify a weapon. Do your homework before jumping out there.
1 bfbabine 2017-10-03
Read his comments. He's referring to a legal internal altering means which is still restrictive. I'm not talking about a bump firing stock/trigger..It's just not about having paperwork for class 3 guns. It had to to registered 32 years ago to be legally owned by a civilian. That's why machine guns are $20k+. The good slide stocks that actually work are pricey. Yes I know you can get them cheaper. The cheap ones don't work very well.
1 Bmxracer2000 2017-10-03
And I was correcting YOU.
You said the bumpfire stocks are $500.
They are not.
And you mentioned the conversion to full auto requiring special blah blah.
Also not true. Several ways to do it, all searchable on YouTube. And also highly illegal to do.
Not to mention the fact that the dude had money. A lot of it. Money makes people forget that FA parts kits aren't supposed to be in the hands of civilians. Also illegal.
The guy just murdered 50+ people and wounded another 500+. Call me crazy, but I highly doubtful he would have been all that concerned about the legality.
1 bfbabine 2017-10-03
I'm not disagreeing with you on anything really lol. Ok so bumpfire stocks have come down in price. It has been a few years since I priced them.. thanks for the correction. Just wanted to make a point you can't have new conversion paperwork on anything these days and it be legal. Didn't we say the same thing? Sigh.
1 Bmxracer2000 2017-10-03
More or less. Lol
1 YPG-Got-Raqqa 2017-10-03
Yeah legally. You also can't legally shoot 500 people.
1 theawesomethatis 2017-10-03
On several weapons it's super easy to file down the sear face to such a fine touch that it's technically still semi-auto but in use it's effectively full auto.
The downside is you usually lose all control.
Once you start the clip. It's going to fire until empty. You can't stop it.
1 Bmxracer2000 2017-10-03
Well trained? Nah. Watch some YouTube videos. You're golden.
1 khantzaey 2017-10-03
Or a crank trigger
1 TheCamelTojo 2017-10-03
The m16 issued by the military only has burst fire
1 DrBadTouch22 2017-10-03
Depends on the era, branch and what you’re doing. M16A1 has a full auto selection. The A2 is 3 round burst.
1 ma70jake 2017-10-03
A4 is full auto as well, as is the m4
1 jrod152 2017-10-03
The rifle sounds i hear are m16 and m4.
1 I426Hemi 2017-10-03
Bumpfire stocks do not make for accurate fire, especially at longer ranges.
1 superdankjuicynotes 2017-10-03
They sure don't. But they do have an inconsistent rate of fire, which we hear in the audio. The target was a crowd of 22,000 people.
1 I426Hemi 2017-10-03
Aaaah, I didn't realize the size of the crowd, thought it was just 2 or 3,000. That large a group, the inaccuracy of a bumpfire wouldn't matter.
1 TheCrawlerFL 2017-10-03
23 guns actually, and at least 2 tripods
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/02/us/stephen-paddock-vegas-shooter.html?referer=
1 KittyHasABeard 2017-10-03
How do they know so quickly the gunshot wound was self-inflicted? Surely it would make sense to consider that someone went in there, shot him and then carried out the shooting?
1 glugglug 2017-10-03
Who else would shoot him in the back?
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
How do we know any of what is claimed is true?
1 live52 2017-10-03
We do not.
1 Mike_McDermott 2017-10-03
Everyone needs to keep this in mind. We are totally relying on corporate (state run) media to provide us the information we are processing. 100% chance the information, at the very least, is unintentionally inaccurate. 90% chance is pure disinformation.
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
Wouldn't shock me in the least that the shooters were government hired and Paddock is nothing more than a fall guy to take the blame.
1 Mike_McDermott 2017-10-03
I mean, its been done many times before so.....why not now?
Motive: Target the people that support the 2A in an attempt to get them to change their minds about gun control.
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
I love pondering the idiocy of that logic. If someone shot someone I loved to death, I'd only want more guns, seriously that is all I conclude. When I think about people being hurt, raped and killed in large numbers, I just want to arm everyone I know and love to the teeth everywhere they go.
If anything this seems like some effort to boost gun sales.
1 Toke_Blue 2017-10-03
See... Youre seeing it from a covilians perspective. Think about it from someone pushing the agenda. If we kill people and blame it on some Joe then we can get people to think we need more gun laws so Joes cant get guns as easily. Clearly that's not how we are thinking about it
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
The purpose of 2a is to act as a hard stopper to a tyrannical government. Madmen or governments pulling stunts changes this 0%. I am guessing many who support 2a appreciate this, who really knows.
1 The_Frag_Man 2017-10-03
I appreciate that fact and that's why I'll always support 2a.
1 Be_Royal76 2017-10-03
Having more guns would have done nothing to stop this guy.
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
The only difference which makes no difference is no difference.
1 lambocinnialfredo 2017-10-03
Which will be the difference in our gun control laws before and after this shooting.
1 Mdan 2017-10-03
Las Vegas police scanner audio indicates people during the shooting were trying to get into police vehicles to grab the weapons there, presumably to protect themselves. So whether or not more weapons would have stopped the shooting is one issue, but whether it drives up demand for weapons is another. (http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/10/listen_to_chaotic_scene_as_pol.html)
1 slanaiya 2017-10-03
That's not the point. You're telling us a fact. Facts are for logic and reasoning - this kind of thing is a matter of emotions. Most people will fit what they think to how they feel about it and the demographic we're talking about arguably tends to include the kind of people who feel like arming themselves in response to feeling unsafe.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Rationality and logic have no place in politics.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Yeah gun law advocates think that since big stupid aggressive people exist (and will likely run out and arm themselves and their families the instant any panic drops), that it's safer to take everyone's guns away.
I don't think either are very good solutions, but I also can't see anything else that would work. It's a touchy topic.
1 Odor_punchout_16 2017-10-03
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2015/10/26/people-with-concealed-carry-permits-have-committed-at-least-29-mass-shootings-since-2007/?utm_term=.ab27da18cad1
thats from the most liberal, biased, ludicrous paper known to man.
crime is stopped almost daily by CC holders.
http://www.dailywire.com/news/8255/report-concealed-carry-permit-holders-are-most-law-aaron-bandler
typically, those who purchase and carry firearms are EXTREMELY law abiding people. us CC holders are VERY careful and VERY responsible with our weapons as well as everything else in our lives.
Remember pal, good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns.
What happens if someone gets shot on the street corner, and a police officer witnesses it? He calls for backup, aka MORE GUNS, and engages. So yes, in most cases, more guns is ultimately the answer.
I already went and bought 2 firearms this week. So yes, its pretty much the first thing a lot of us think about.
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
Right on. I think it's often hard to attribute the drop in crime in true numbers. https://i.imgur.com/lp3UVOe.jpg But this is an interesting graph on it.
I imagine often that criminals that believe an area is heavily armed will not take that risk.
A lot of people point out the dangers of guns, but for the number of legal gun owners out there, you don't hear much about them. https://i.imgur.com/o8pKdHH.png
1 Odor_punchout_16 2017-10-03
Guns simply aren't what kills people. It takes a human with the will to kill. Thank God this guy didn't have explosives too. I was reading that he was shooting at jet fuel tanks 1000' from the venue. Should we ban jet fuel if he had happened to cause a explosion?
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
Gov: "OMG GUNS GUNS ARE THE WORST AHHH GUNS 33 MILLION AMERICANS A DAY ARE RAPED AND MURDERED BY GUNS!"
Also gov: sitting on enough nukes to destroy the entire planet 8 times
1 twoheadedboy 2017-10-03
More likely motive: try to get attention away from "that Russian thing" ... 3 big storms recently also, biggest storms ever basically....
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
"Mother Nature" keeps one-upping herself, doesn't she? Wonder if she has some little helpers with giant ball EMF arrays.
1 Rootsinsky 2017-10-03
Why would the republitards in charge target 2A supporters.
You've got to do some mental gymnastics to blame liberals for a false flag operation that would have to be ordered by republicans?
You sir, are a special kind of stupid.
1 Mdan 2017-10-03
Las Vegas police scanner audio indicates people during the shooting were trying to get into police vehicles to grab the weapons there, presumably to protect themselves. So the likelihood seems more that if this was a deliberate false flag event, it was to drive up demand for weapons. (http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/2017/10/listen_to_chaotic_scene_as_pol.html). Even if the audio itself is falsified, it still points to a narrative of "get guns to protect yourself."
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Run -> Hide -> Fight
See how fight is the last one? smh
1 Mdan 2017-10-03
Huh? So no one buys guns because they rely on running and hiding? There's no market for self defense weaponry? Facepalm.
1 Mercy_X 2017-10-03
My theory is the Vegas Golden Knights saw how people are brought together in sports (see: yankees and 9/11), so they decided to carry out an attack in order to boost ticket sales.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
the republicans are in charge of the govt. if they want gun control they can push it through
if its some all powerful deepstate org pushing gun control, why cant they outbid the gun industry/nra lobbyists?
1 iamthedrag 2017-10-03
I never understood that logic. It's like when people said Obama was coming for their guns. Which all that did was bring gun sales up higher.
Than you have a shooting like this which I'm told is supposed to make people change their minds? If anything it's things like this that cause more gun sales.
Just saying
1 bleeh805 2017-10-03
Gun sales go up because they think they will get banned or harder to get. Source: I am a stock market junky. Every shooting they go up on the speculation they will be taken away, which never happens.
1 iamthedrag 2017-10-03
Exactly, someone or something has a built-in incentive to sponsor or commit acts that might raise the unrealistic threat that the guns will be taken away.
Which like you say never happens. If it didn't happen under Obama why would it happen now? Unless Trump just 180s. Which I guess he could?
1 bleeh805 2017-10-03
Yeah, but the incentive enough. There are way more ways to do shady stuff with stocks. When I said they went up, it was only approx .34c or 2.4%. there are way easier ways to make money current relevant example: look up the volume of puts on Equifax before they released the news, then look at historic volume.
1 iamthedrag 2017-10-03
I agree def better ways to make more money. But the gun industry makes money by selling guns. So naturally-
1 lurkadurking 2017-10-03
Gun sales are going to go up because gun control is brought up again. They fell when bush took office and repealed the aw ban, and they've fallen now when trump took office and promised to uphold amendment rights.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/10/02/investing/las-vegas-shooting-gun-stocks-sturm-ruger-american-outdoor-brands/index.html
Is this a rise because people are scared of loosing their rights, or are sales being driven up by people seeking guns to protect themselves?
Or do gun sales/stocks just go up after every mass shooting?
1 ThatDudeFromRio 2017-10-03
Why so many gun stores say they have record of him buying several guns from them?
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
Could be lies, could be truth, wouldn't prove anything either way.
1 FreaksAtNight 2017-10-03
Wouldn't it prove that the guns weren't supplied by a rogue government agency?
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
It would be a guess based on guesses, we cannot get to the truth because the government shrouds this and most other things in secrecy.
1 FreaksAtNight 2017-10-03
What are you going to do about it then?
1 swank5000 2017-10-03
People own guns, it's not a crime. Just cause he purchased a few guns, while living in rural Nevada no less, does not mean a thing. I bet 75% of Nevada residents own >1 gun. Someone look it up
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Nevada: 19.5 firearms per 1,000 people. Course that's 2014 data... numbers run by CBS news, data from the ATF and the Census
1 swank5000 2017-10-03
So the 8th most firearms per capita in the USA. My percentage was way off of course but the point still remains.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
"Hey bud you're gonna go buy guns from this store with this money or else we kill your entire family"
1 Taystats33 2017-10-03
It makes more sense than just a random shooting by a retired millionaire. Gives trump a chance to bring the country together with kind words for the victims. Allows trump to give liberals a win with stricter gun laws. Also probably a unplanned happy coincidence for trump. Now he doesn't have to stay long in torn apart Puerto Rico and can quickly run over to one of his cushy hotels in Vegas.
1 Wolveryn 2017-10-03
How does it bring the country together? At least with 9/11 the motives were driven by money, power and the need to pretend to go to war so that oil could be secured in the middle east.
1 NotALanister 2017-10-03
But if this was a Muslim guy there wouldn’t be any talk about whether he was set up.
1 Aliandren 2017-10-03
Best argument I've seen that it's not a setup.
1 jashleyren2 2017-10-03
Because it never is. Terrorist organizations want to take claim when an Islamic radicalist goes crazy, and their is normally evidence that the group was linked to the radical. No such evidence here. Now, a day later, the noise about this being something other than a loon deciding to kill a bunch of people, with high powered, hard to obtain, militaristic weapons, is starting to make some sense.
1 Going2getBanned 2017-10-03
Maybe he was there to set up a Muslim?!?!?!?!
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
Sure, motive would be a whole lot more clear so there wouldn't be unanswered questions. Family and neighbors saying this doesn't add up remotely compounds this idea dramatically.
The simple fact is, anyone paying attention knows the media and government are cramming this anti-white and anti-gun agenda down our throats for at least a decade and it's only growing louder and louder.
http://archive.is/kOUMP
http://archive.is/QZunv
https://imgur.com/a/CPEoB
Do you remember Heather Heyer? They love to point to her death as some sort of white supremacist nazi thing. Although the circumstances were insanely suspicious, she was an inactive morbidly obese smoker who actually died of a heart attack, someone was tossed by a car, but nobody seems to know who they were or where they went. https://youtu.be/SKZqG1T07cs
Divide and conquer. "EVERYTHING IS WHITEYS FAULT!" says the zion.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
so why wouldnt the people who set it up use a fucking muslim?
1 iamthedrag 2017-10-03
I know right, if it was a false flag why would they send in the most obvious old white guy. I love the conspiracy subreddit, I try not to criticize conspiracies because that's what we're here for. At the same time, this seems to obvious for false flag or any kind of gun grab.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
"Too over-the-top to be a conspiracy." I bet people still think this about 9/11.
They don't even have to try any more, people will make up any reason to believe what they're told.
1 f1del1us 2017-10-03
But they would blame terrorists and brown people for doing it and not the guns. Because they can't blame the guy, they blame the guns.
1 moxiecounts 2017-10-03
who is blaming the guns? I always blame the guy
1 swank5000 2017-10-03
If he had no criminal record and lived in a retirement community, with no military or police background, and no evidence to support a motive, then yes, I think people would start to question whether he was set up, regardless of ethnicity.
That being said, it does bother me that none of the media will call him a terrorist.
1 leongaban 2017-10-03
There was no apparent political angle... violence with a political agenda is terrorism.
1 tendieizdanite 2017-10-03
Seek help
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
"100% chance the information... is unintentionally inaccurate". Wtf are you babbling about?
1 Rootsinsky 2017-10-03
It's a 15 year old edge lord bringing out all their big boy words.
1 amlast 2017-10-03
The majority of outlets aren't run by the state
There are outlets like the Guardian (vehemently independent of UK government, broke Snowden/many Iraq stories), it's direct competition (e.g. The Telegraph, the Observers, the Times - all with their own editorial freedom, responsibilities, credibility, accountability standards in all news stories) - the media watchdogs that overlook them, the independent journalists, freelancers, Nordic outlets (Norway, Finland, Sweden - considered among the free-est in the world) which is all a drop in ocean compared to the thousands of outlets all over the world
Many of these scouring, researching, interviewing, cross-checking - the emergency responders, the police, investigators, hospital staff, doctors, the hundreds of people injured in wards, witnesses, neighbours, friends, etc
So far in the last 17 years or so I've seen every major terrorist attack and shooting (911, 7/7 London, Madrid train bombings, Sandy hook, Boston Bombing, Columbine, Charlie Hebdo, Aurora, Paris attacks, multiple recent London attacks, and many more) labelled as false flags or inside jobs on forums within hours of the event
The typical progression is that shortly after the attack posters start proclaiming the event is "fishy" or "strange". Other's group-validate that. Others point out not to trust the media/authorities (stage we are at now), then down the line comes the photos with the circles in them and youtube videos with collections of "discrepancies/doubts/holes" in order to discredit the "official" version of events, then interest dwindles until the next major attack/shooting
1 Rootsinsky 2017-10-03
Hey, don't be bringing reasoning and facts into /r/conspiracy. Please talk way more about coded language and symbology and pizza. They've got to be behind this. I mean muh Soros is the devil. This is obviously the lefts was of sabotaging the 2A.
1 JasonTakesMAGAtten 2017-10-03
This right here.
1 BernieBalloonHair 2017-10-03
And twitter, and the police, and the country music stars that heard the shooting, and the tens of thousands of witnesses, and the nurses, EMTs, and the doctors at the hospitals, and the reporters and the FBI and the governor. They're all in on it and you guys are totally the sane rational ones
1 Mike_McDermott 2017-10-03
I feel like youre trying really hard to make a counter argument to my post, but you have failed miserably.
How many people suffered gun shot wounds in the shooting?
1 BernieBalloonHair 2017-10-03
Over 500 were injured. So tell me how they're all in on it?
You're mentally ill with no grounding in reality.
1 Mike_McDermott 2017-10-03
I didnt ask how many were injured. I asked how many people suffered gun shot wounds.
1 BernieBalloonHair 2017-10-03
How do you think they got injured you fucking shit head
1 Kasperhashops 2017-10-03
You had me until you made up statistics.
1 Mike_McDermott 2017-10-03
100% chance the statistics are made up. Do you believe those statistics?
1 Kasperhashops 2017-10-03
No. LMFAO
1 Mike_McDermott 2017-10-03
That would mean you believe there is a possibility the statistics are correct.
1 Kasperhashops 2017-10-03
Of course there’s a possibility. Do you have a point?
1 Mike_McDermott 2017-10-03
yes, but I am keeping it super secret.
1 pilla99 2017-10-03
This is why no one takes this sub seriously.
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
"OY VEY SKEPTICS ARE TOO SKEPTICAL DO NOT LISTEN TO THOSE CRAZY GOYIM!"
1 thehamman277 2017-10-03
People out here debunking theories that no one said!!!
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
This says otherwise.
1 theawesomethatis 2017-10-03
The dnc?
1 teh_booth_gawd 2017-10-03
They're making the frogs gay!
1 AaronSwartz56 2017-10-03
i dont know why this is such a popular thing to make fun of.
a company was dumping chemicals that they put in our fucking water and it was turning all the frogs at the dump site into hermaphrodites.
to me, thats serious, not funny.
1 RR4YNN 2017-10-03
It's next level funny for that reason.
1 vaper1978 2017-10-03
LOL
1 TheMadQuixotician 2017-10-03
Why?
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
Not only that, but the scientist that studied it had his life threatened
1 Todos1881 2017-10-03
The chemical is called atrazine. It literally made the frogs grow female sex organs
1 toomuchpork 2017-10-03
Atrazine. It is a common pesticide.
1 shesellsseashellsby 2017-10-03
You're not creative or funny. Bot?
1 live52 2017-10-03
Same thing, no?
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
how does he shoot himself in the back?
1 MAGAParty 2017-10-03
Exactly
1 Laughing_Bones 2017-10-03
I’m sorry I’ve missed some crucial info and have already felt suspicious of this before even investigating this very much, but he was shot in the back with a self inflicted shot gun blast?
1 Chrsimsi 2017-10-03
Oh my god you guys are retarded.
1 AaronSwartz56 2017-10-03
yeah we should just believe the official narrative and go along with the ensuing legislation.
that worked out so well after 9/11, why not double down? i say we ban all automatic weapons and microchip people so that we know where they are at all times and can shut down their heart with the bush of a button, then we'll never have mass shootings! hooray freedom!
1 live52 2017-10-03
Put multiple, conflicting stories out there and they'll never figure it out, has been an FBI/CIA technique since 11/22/'63, and it has worked fairly well until recently, when an increasingly large proportion of the US population have finally raised their consciousness, and seen the BS. Once you see it, you never unsee. So we have multiple deep-state-run shooters at Las Vegas. Their purpose: flush out Trump supporters, kill them, and then neutralize the president, starting right about now, or within two weeks. Then, police state, for your protection, with a catchy name for it. Beware.
1 Trezor10 2017-10-03
I agree. Plus we now have video cameras on every single person. Older people that stage and plan these things tend to get caught off guard because tech evolves faster andchanges society at a faster pace than ever before. We could crowd source all video and photos and recreate the event and know for sure.
1 live52 2017-10-03
Very good idea, and I will bet 4-chan is working on that right now.
1 bellessaisons 2017-10-03
purpose: assassination hidden within a mass shooting?
1 live52 2017-10-03
Coup de Etat? Obfuscation. The takeover of Hillary bots. A complacent populis?
1 bellessaisons 2017-10-03
organized crime? who made $ off this concert, who didn't. turf war? sending a message?
1 ed_at_work 2017-10-03
You're right. We should believe made up bullshit that some guy on a forum pulls out of his ass.
1 AaronSwartz56 2017-10-03
thats not what i said, captain straw man.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
It's sad that some people actually think this way. Transhumanism is a fucking death trap for everyone but the designer.
1 vaper1978 2017-10-03
I agree the back of the head thing was odd - but saying this makes you look like an ass " already felt suspicious of this before even investigating this very much"
Atleast be unbiased going into your research..
1 Laughing_Bones 2017-10-03
I feel like we have to question everything in this day and time and never trust the story you are being fed no matter the source.
-some ass on the internet
1 Agrees_withyou 2017-10-03
The statement above is one I can get behind!
1 -spartacus- 2017-10-03
I've seen the picture, he wasn't shot in the back unless there is more than his head wound. The picture is him laying on his back with his head in a pool of blood and a revolver near the outside frame of the picture.
From seeing Bud Dwyer suicide, it looks similar to me, he was standing or sitting shot himself through the mouth, fell to the floor with the gun, and the blood pooled out of his mouth and back of the head.
1 CampingChair 2017-10-03
It's a Gary Webb style suicide..
1 LeBrons_Mom 2017-10-03
Twice, with two different guns? Neither matching the bullet type used?
1 cleverever 2017-10-03
Source.
1 LeBrons_Mom 2017-10-03
I was joking, alluding to Vince Foster's death.
1 live52 2017-10-03
Is it true that he and Killary were having an affair?
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
Maybe, she's gay but she might be bi
1 live52 2017-10-03
I should not have tried to open that can of worms, because I don't want to know.
1 Homer_Simpson_Doh 2017-10-03
His CIA handlers.
1 TripleAce_X 2017-10-03
Where was it reported his self inflicted gunshot was in his back?
1 Sexy_Bellies 2017-10-03
It hasn't.
/r/conspiracy users post it enough continually, some will believe it's true.
1 shadowofashadow 2017-10-03
It's a meme. Referring to suicides where the person was shot in ways that would be difficult for people to do to themselves.
One guy was found zip tied in a duffel bag and it was ruled suicide.
1 toomuchpork 2017-10-03
Gary Webb double tapped himself.
1 ShinigamiSirius 2017-10-03
Terrance Yeakey tied himself up, slashed his wrists and throat, then shot himself in the back of the head.
1 megalodon90 2017-10-03
John Lang said Fresno PD was going to kill him in retaliation for reporting on their illegal activities, then stabbed himself multiple times and set his own house on fire.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Hmm, those "I am not suicidal, I am not planning any excursions to remote areas etc etc" Facebook posts are looking more and more rational by the day.
1 BernieBalloonHair 2017-10-03
So they're making shit up to fit their natrative. That's this sub in a nutshell
1 shadowofashadow 2017-10-03
No, it's a joke. No one is actually saying he was shot in the back.
1 BernieBalloonHair 2017-10-03
Nope I do understand a reference. There is no context to base this on a joke and nuance doesn't apply here but big words must make feel smart.
1 shadowofashadow 2017-10-03
hehe. Have a good day buddy. Cheer up.
1 BernieBalloonHair 2017-10-03
Lmao k, sure ya are
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
https://i.imgur.com/bKoCFMm.png
1 40ozdabs 2017-10-03
It's a "joke" here related to all the Sketchy "suicides" around election time and the leaks.
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
Leaked picture of Paddock after the incident.
Definitely NSFW
1 Be_Royal76 2017-10-03
Looks like he shot himself through his mouth and out of his head. Nothing odd about that.
1 velimak 2017-10-03
That's actually not the full picture.
The full picture extends downwards another 5 inches or so, and there is blood on his shirt in the abdomen area.
I'm not saying I believe this but it's conceivable that he was shot in the abdomen area - either front or back - and the blood out of his mouth is aspirated blood.
1 -spartacus- 2017-10-03
If you see the Bud Dwyer suicide which happened live on TV, it would make sense if he was standing or sitting to shoot himself through the mouth, fall back, and have some blood splatter on the front, before the majority of it went with gravity across his face lying down and out the back of his head.
1 Be_Royal76 2017-10-03
Do you have a link or source for the extended pic?
1 _delamo 2017-10-03
To be shot from behind and have blood behind you is defying a whole lot of physics
1 Xacto01 2017-10-03
not saying this happened, but you don't have shoot somebody from behind to execute somebody. We are on /r/conspiracy aren't we? it's possible somebody made it look like he shot himself.
1 Kasperhashops 2017-10-03
I love how people use the name of this subreddit to justify posting wild speculation totally at odds with the facts
1 tendieizdanite 2017-10-03
It makes r/conspiracy nearly worthless. There are real conspiracies out there but these wild assed users with crazy speculation makes this place look like a lunatic bin.
1 Kasperhashops 2017-10-03
It makes me sound paranoid as fuck but I have this weird gut feeling that it’s being done intentionally
1 tendieizdanite 2017-10-03
There is a part of me that thinks it could be controlled oppo making the wildest of assertions.
And if you think about it, there's a lot of sense in planting wild theories in a conspiracy sub in order to discredit the whole of the conspiracy body.
I sometimes wonder whether Alex Jones is controlled oppo or is at least partly funded by a shadow government agency out to discredit conspiracy theories in general. As in, "oh, you're think there's such things as conspiracies like that lunatic Alex Jones?"
1 X_Cess1veSamurai 2017-10-03
no thats a fake picture. the blood wouldnt be pooled like that with a point blank shot to the top of your head. there would be of spread pattern further to the top of the picture.
1 TheSpaceship 2017-10-03
Blood is pooled because he must've shot himself through his mouth standing/sitting up. When he fell back, the blood would begin to drain out of the would and pool around that area.
1 ToIA 2017-10-03
His eye is all but fallout of of his head. Almost definitely a GSW to the head.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
Wait is this real?
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
Supposedly
1 X_Cess1veSamurai 2017-10-03
no thats a fake picture. the blood wouldnt be pooled like that with a point blank shot to the top of your head. there would be of spread pattern further to the top of the picture.
1 TheSpaceship 2017-10-03
Blood is pooled because he must've shot himself through his mouth standing/sitting up. When he fell back, the blood would begin to drain out of the would and pool around that area.
1 BeeverCleever 2017-10-03
Wonder why there are two blood stains...
1 CrappyBoobJob 2017-10-03
That looks nothing like him. Highly doubt this is real
1 ItsAboutSharing 2017-10-03
And what about the other shooter? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2oQ65zi-Q&feature=youtu.be
1 pictureBigger 2017-10-03
no "13" (maybe tattoo?) on his neck in that picture though. see it in his original shot glass photo
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
That kind of looks like skin folds? Kind of a pixelated photo though.
1 pictureBigger 2017-10-03
true. and your pic shows his neck extended so maybe. some weird ass looking wrinkles if they are.
1 Bootycheez4meplz 2017-10-03
There isn't a bump stock on that AR in the picture. So that one was strictly semi-automatic unless there had been extensive work done on the trigger
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
The rifle with the fore grip was .223 and did have a bump stock, and what appears to be a Surefire 100 round magazine loaded, with a rather large stack of similar magazines next to the pillar.
The other rifle, with the bipod, appears to be an AR-10 chambered in .308 with a standard 30 round magazine, a magnified scope, and no appearance of a bump stock. One thing worth noting though, bump stocks and bipods are not very comparable with each other.
The FBI reported yesterday evening that 12 of the 23 weapons found in the hotel room had “devices” that allowed them to “mimic” an automatic method of fire. So far the only pictures I’ve seen has been those two rifles and the pistol which he presumably suck started to end his life.
1 Bootycheez4meplz 2017-10-03
I don't understand why he wouldn't put the bipod on the one with the bump stock. It would increase the stability and accuracy and would probably help regulate the rate of fire to prevent malfunctions. I've never shot a rifle with a bump stock though so I don't know if thats true
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
From my understanding, with a bump stock, you seat the buttstock into your shoulder and place your finger in the trigger well. You use your off hand to move the rifle forward, thus pulling your finger back into the trigger and firing off a round, then the recoil makes the rifle itself go back and forth causing your finger to quickly release and pull the trigger in rapid succession which effectively replicates automatic fire. The key to this working is the buttstock staying firmly seated in your shoulder, your finger remaining firm against the plastic part of the bump stock at the trigger well, and the rest of the rifle itself actually moving back and forth. A bipod would prohibit the rifle from moving forward and backward. That’s why bump stocks are fairly unreliable and not very accurate... but for this guy, he didn’t have to be all that accurate, he was basically trying to “hit the broadside of a barn” here.
1 Bootycheez4meplz 2017-10-03
The bump stock acts like a second spring (in addition to the buffer spring in the rifle) that uses recoil to bounce the rifle off your shoulder. Most people also get a gunsmith to modify the trigger so it has a shorter travel length and lighter breaking weight so that when the gun bounces forward and then back again, it shoots another round while you keep your trigger finger in the same postion
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
The key being the rifle “moving” to make a bump stock effective. Even with a trigger adjusted to have a very light trigger pull, the rifle itself still needs to move. For bipods to be the most effective, they should have sandbags or some kind of weight behind and/or in front of the feet of the bipod, and firm pressure should be applied to the buttstock. Enough pressure that if you didn’t have sandbags, the bipods and rifle itself would skip forward.
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
The top photo here is a pretty good quality image of the rifle with the fore grip and bump stock.
1 Bootycheez4meplz 2017-10-03
Ok yeah that one definitely has one. I wonder why he put the bipod on the other one though. If it were me I would want as much stability and accuracy as possible on my most effective, casualty producing weapon
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
Most stable and effective would be using a tripod, or bipod if needed. But like I said, they aren’t very compatible with a bump stock. He would’ve been better off using a trigger crank, a modified sear, or buying an illegal but legitimate fully automatic weapon or two from the black market. Obviously money wasn’t a huge obstacle for him, but maybe he viewed those options as too risky?
1 Bootycheez4meplz 2017-10-03
You can get any fabrication shop who is willing to make a modified sear. I mean he was a wealthy older white dude so its not like he would raise any red flags
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
True, but in theory, that would require him to trust whomever he asked. That’s not a legal modification, so you can’t just go to any fab shop and ask for somebody to make the modification for you and hope they don’t report you to the authorities.
1 Bootycheez4meplz 2017-10-03
I didn't say just any shop. I said a shop that was willing to do it. They are out there. And they aren't going to report him if they already sold him the sear.
1 tterb0331 2017-10-03
True. It still would’ve taken trust. Guess we won’t know until the official findings come out, or never, if any of the weapons had modified sears. Even if he found a shop to do that for him, he easily could’ve gotten a couple done, but when you ask for 5-10+ Modified sears, that might raise the suspicions of people that are willing to perform the work for him.
He definitely used a bump stock for one of the rifles though, and as pictured, it appears he had a Surefire 100 round mag loaded into the rifle and a considerable stack of similar magazines next to the pillar, which tells me that rifle was his primary choice. We’ve only seen pictures of two of the rifles within the room though.
Most of the videos I’ve seen and heard have a very inconsistent rate of fire within a single burst, which leads me to believe that a bump fire rifle was his primary weapon of choice over a rifle with a modified sear.
Side note, every time I read your name I get that subtle corner of the mouth smile.
1 dylan522p 2017-10-03
Who said he got shot in the back
1 glugglug 2017-10-03
I was kidding, mostly.
1 thatoneguysbro 2017-10-03
Is this your speculation? Or can you link a report that he was shot in the back?
1 glugglug 2017-10-03
the former, half joking.
1 DarthStem 2017-10-03
Seth Rich
1 clueless_as_fuck 2017-10-03
Maybe the hotel room door was barricated from the inside?
1 TomSawyerandJane23 2017-10-03
I heard he was killed not suicide
1 cleverever 2017-10-03
Both statements have been released. First that they killed him, then that it was a suicide.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
That's always how it is. Less paperwork to fill out if the cops didn't shoot the guy
1 Aliandren 2017-10-03
Yeah I'm wondering if they returned fire through the door and came in and found him dead from the exchange. Decided it was better to say self inflicted.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
If you listen to the police scanner you can hear the breach charge then a while later after the suite is cleared they just say 1 suspect down.
So it's easy to see why that would be mixed up. They don't use the police scanner to share gossip just relevant facts.
1 Trumpwillmagamydick 2017-10-03
Was is a gunshot to the side of the head? Id call it a suicide. Or should we question the fact the a white american male would never do this. It was probably a muslim terrorist who did all this.
1 live52 2017-10-03
US Intel, or deeper
1 Trumpwillmagamydick 2017-10-03
So it cant possibly be a white guy
1 live52 2017-10-03
Did not say that.
1 cantanoupe 2017-10-03
Did you ever watch the new Borne Supremecy film, where the "bad guys" tried to force the "good guy" to shoot herself in the head - to make it look like suicide?
If not, are you aware someone can force another person to shoot themselves, with physical force?
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
Have you seen Shooter with Mark Wahlberg where they do the same thing and it works, and they brag about it working a bunch of times before. Also the premise of that movie would line up well with this, with a remotely controlled gun. Before you start being a douchebag, remember I'm just the arising and I don't necessarily believe this happened.
1 Naidem 2017-10-03
It's possible, but there is decent science regarding time of death, especially if the death occurred recently. If he had been dead for hours longer, they would know, the difference is pretty stark.
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
It's just part of the narrative Kitty
1 Cptn_Canada 2017-10-03
lets be real. if the US wanted to false flag. why use a white guy, that furthers no agenda
1 whales-are-assholes 2017-10-03
In the army, soldiers used to shoot themselves in the foot to get out. They were quick to cotton on that the trajectory of the bullet were self inflicted.
Who's to say that they didn't have people on the scene afterwards that mapped out their reasoning behind it being self inflicted, after the hotel room was given the all clear?
1 __Rask47nikov__ 2017-10-03
But what could be the point of shooting indiscriminately at concert goers? Not being cynical at all. Just really what could be an agenda behind that? False flag? Against who tho?
1 dinosauramericana 2017-10-03
This is one of the first things I thought
1 stewmangroup 2017-10-03
Because no one else came out of the room. The police were on the 32 floor within 7 minutes. The shooting hadn't stopped yet.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Nah nah, totally not possible. Don't even consider it. Why would you want to waste brain power thinking about that when the news can tell you what to think and you can just sit back!?
1 quantumFroth 2017-10-03
So he meticulously set this entire thing up, the hotel booking in advance, making sure he faced a concert, buying all the equipment, lugging all the guns up, positioning everything...
And then someone walks in on him, shoots him, and carries out the shooting themselves?
How does it make sense to consider that?
1 Getting_Schwifty14 2017-10-03
A swat officer was shot in the leg before entering the room as Paddock opened fire on the door before killing himself.
1 Sviodo 2017-10-03
An ME (medical examiner) probably took his body temperature, that'd narrow the ToD down to around 30 minutes, which is most likely enough time to tell whether or not he was set up.
1 indisinctchatter 2017-10-03
Based on the leaked photo it looks very plausible that he shoved the barrel in his mouth and popped off the shot into his own brain
1 _D_I_S_T_R_E_S_S_ 2017-10-03
Thinking he had converted some of those guns in to a gatling gun but they won't say so because they don't want copy cats.
1 yenvalmar 2017-10-03
oh he absolutely did. the firing pattern is definitely not a conventional full auto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jif4Wo0LDX8
2 million views on that video illustrating such a conversion, you cant really use that arguement.
1 lambocinnialfredo 2017-10-03
2 million views..... seriously sad.
1 ItsAboutSharing 2017-10-03
Certainly sounds like 2 shooters thought. Great detailed video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2oQ65zi-Q&feature=youtu.be
1 MrZionix 2017-10-03
well officially it was a bump-stock.
This video basically confirms it
https://youtu.be/wj90gBDX1ro?t=1m5s
1 Odor_punchout_16 2017-10-03
this is ridiculous, thought I knew my fire arms....I do not
1 yenvalmar 2017-10-03
deleted post very suspicious, talking about how it sounded like a bump stock. maybe somebody "got" to the OP. the bump stock is a silly workaround for a law not an inherent good idea about how to make an automatic weapon dont feel any shame.
1 amaleigh13 2017-10-03
He had 2 bump-stocks
1 Zarathasstra 2017-10-03
So he brought 23 guns in through Valet parking? Christ.
1 Sexy_Bellies 2017-10-03
I know eh?
No way he put 5 rifles in 5 suitcases and took three trips.
It's a physical impossibility. It literally defies the laws of physics.
1 Weedwacker3 2017-10-03
Nothing more suspicious than a guy in a hotel lobby rolling some heavy luggage
1 kurwacotyrobisz 2017-10-03
And how would he even get this much heavy equipment up on the 32nd floor? No way they have some kind of lifting device in Mandalay Bay
1 Weedwacker3 2017-10-03
A loaded AK47 is around 11 pounds. Throw 4 in a bag that's 44 pounds. I recently travelled to New York and my bag was 49 pounds. I was able to wheel it around very easily
1 Weedwacker3 2017-10-03
All sarcasm aside, the funniest part is that he could literally ask a bell hop to do it. Throw 10 rifles and ammo in a huge custom made pelican case and tell the concierge "I've got some expensive electronic equipment can you please get this to my room" and they'd be happy to do it
1 _kNUCK 2017-10-03
this is what no one realizes about this whole situation
1 Weedwacker3 2017-10-03
This is Las Vegas. You could back a Uhaul truck full of live chickens into the valet parking area, and if the hotel thinks you're going to spend some money gambling, they'll ask you what room to bring the chickens to
1 PLZDONTBANMEAGAIN 2017-10-03
you could literally carry the guns in one by one in a hard case made specifically for rifles and NO ONE would bat an eye
1 Aliandren 2017-10-03
Can't they still find that footage and release it?
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
definitely. fewer places with more cameras than a vegas casino
1 Hazmat_Princess 2017-10-03
Don't need to tell them that. Vegas hosts shot show every here and I'm sure there are other gun conventions every weekend. No one would bat an eye if they were guns, but he would have to be concerned that someone might break into his room and steal his shit!
1 mu_mu_lambda 2017-10-03
... by doing it in smaller trips?
"I have to move those 32 cakes, do I move them in one unwieldy trip or five to six smaller amounts?"
1 MuscaApis 2017-10-03
He's kidding.
1 mu_mu_lambda 2017-10-03
I think that's the only conspiracy here
1 MuscaApis 2017-10-03
I have an idea, stay with me here, a mechanical contraption which carries people and luggage to their floor. I'll make millions, millions I tell ya!
1 kurwacotyrobisz 2017-10-03
But what if they need to take their stuff back down? What good is a lifter upper in that case?
1 MuscaApis 2017-10-03
Damn. My lifter-upper empire has gone up in smoke... unless...
...the back-downer!
1 kurwacotyrobisz 2017-10-03
Not to be a Debbie Downer, but we already have amphetamines and opioids
1 Todos1881 2017-10-03
There's unconfirmed reports that he used some advanced tech called an elavator. Can't confirm though at this time.
1 kurwacotyrobisz 2017-10-03
Come on now, that's some NWO bullshit
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
OMG! That hotel didnt have a thirteenth floor! Illuminat confirmed!!!
1 Todos1881 2017-10-03
He was on the 32nd floor. 3 x 2 is 6. Six degrees of seperation means this guy was connected to everyone in the world.
1 Mazyc 2017-10-03
Now that's a conspiracy if I've ever heard one!
1 lyricyst2000 2017-10-03
You can easily break down an AR style rifle into 3 pieces and fit 3-5 of them in a large luggage bag.
Upper, Lower, stock and magazines, thats it.
How is it physically impossible for him to have taken multiple trips? Do tell.
1 Sexy_Bellies 2017-10-03
We're all mocking those few redditors who claim he could not possibly have gotten his rifles up to his room undetected over the 4 days he was staying there.
1 lyricyst2000 2017-10-03
Ehh, sorry.
Sometimes its hard to detect sarcasm around here.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
No. He had two vehicles and he was there since Thursday so plenty of time.
1 -spartacus- 2017-10-03
I believe he had his GF's access card which allowed him to use service elevator, but there is no confirmation that he did this.
1 Zarathasstra 2017-10-03
And then drove his car to Valet parking?
1 Zarathasstra 2017-10-03
And then drove his car to Valet parking?
1 -spartacus- 2017-10-03
Idk.
1 RogueLeaderJ 2017-10-03
I swear to god he is a plant. And I always keep coming back to Russia, and I don't really have any reason other than this shit is nefarious and they need Trump to get his base to coalesce around him once more. I know Hydra isn't real, but all this shit coming out about this story, hell Hydra may be possible.
1 OhHolyOpals 2017-10-03
Why would the release anything during an open investigation? and why would the release information on how someone hid their guns in an elevator?? C'mon...
1 Ostmormor 2017-10-03
Broken windows at the house!? The guns and ammo could easily have been planted if there was broken windows.
1 ItsAboutSharing 2017-10-03
Rifles? He was shooting full on machine guns and by the sounds of it, they were without a doubt, band fed, not normal "lock and loaded" (forget the name of the cartridge holder).
This guy is very knowledgable and goes into great detail. Also, 2 shooters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2oQ65zi-Q&feature=youtu.be
1 TheCrawlerFL 2017-10-03
He was using bump-fire stocks or similar modifications. The rate of fire varies too much for it to be a machine gun.
1 basiliskfang 2017-10-03
I saw it reported that the authorities shot him.
1 mybrainismessedup 2017-10-03
Really because if you listen to the police scanner you literally here shots go off the second the cops breach the door, and said we have the suspect down. He either shot himself literally as they entered or the cops shot him.
1 Nh66532 2017-10-03
I believe the argument is whether or not he did this himself, or if he had help for a false flag.
Which if this was a false flag, I feel like they wouldn't release the footage if it could be proven that he wasn't the shooter.
1 RikaMX 2017-10-03
I'd love to see his facial expressions via footage, or how's he acting.
We all know about MKUltra and mind control, and I find it weird that they aren't letting us see the way he was acting before the attack.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
You aren't gonna see his face on shitty hotel cameras.
1 RikaMX 2017-10-03
Are you being for real man?
I'm perfectly able to see people's faces in my shitty home cameras man, what year do you think we are in lmao.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
I worked security for years. When a corporation has to spend money, they cut costs. Never had access to cameras that were of any decent quality
1 rastacola 2017-10-03
Casino cameras are very good actually ..they use them to monitor people and ensure they are not cheating.
1 Acidshits 2017-10-03
Literally good enough to see which cards are in your hand from 20 ft above
1 bobthetitanic 2017-10-03
What?
1 Acidshits 2017-10-03
Casino cameras can see enough detail to read which cards your holding, more than enough detail to identify someone's face walking clear through the lobby.
1 bobthetitanic 2017-10-03
My apologies I read your comment wrong.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
The cameras in the casino are different than those used for the hotel lobby. I can guarantee that having worked security in a casino before
1 rastacola 2017-10-03
I find it insane you expect evidence like this released a day after the incident. It's not that they are hiding footage from you, it's that it is under a microscope and they will not just release this stuff until they comb it over thoroughly
1 RikaMX 2017-10-03
Ok, once the tapes are released I'll believe your words.
Feel free to send me the link of the unaltered tapes once we get them.
Until then, I'll see it as something weird.
1 postal83 2017-10-03
Im impressed a 64 year old was able hump around all that iron, run between and operate two difficult to control automatic weapons. Not something a retiree investor type would seem particularly good at.
1 LPton509 2017-10-03
Sounds like golf to me
1 postal83 2017-10-03
Maybe he had a gun caddy who knows.
1 theBrineySeaMan 2017-10-03
Well, if you're shooting into a crowd theirs not too much to control, and moving between guns really depends on how capable he is. I know 70+ year olds who walk the course multiple times a week, and <60 year olds who can't move very well. As far as moving the weapons idk.
1 NotAJIDFShill 2017-10-03
I haven't been in a hotel in awhile.
But moving weapons should be easy. Don't they have those dolly things you can toss them on? Or get someone to simply help. They're in a bag, no one is going to care.
I mean it really doesn't take much here, lots of small bags, have someone help carry them for you, tip them.
1 versusgorilla 2017-10-03
I don't know what world these people are living in where it's hard to move stuff around a Vegas hotel. They provide carts for free that require no proof you're even staying there to use AND many even have human beings to help you move stuff. They ALL have elevators and places you can pull your car right up to the front door.
Not to mention, guns don't have to be in giant metal cases. You can take them apart and just put them in a suitcase. It's not even insane for a 64 year old to do this. My father is 65 and still mows his own yard, does all his own gardening, shovels snow out of his driveway, and walks a minimum of five miles a day. 64 year olds aren't feeble and incapable either.
None of this is impossible and people who are saying it is proof of a false flag are being willfully ignorant of possibilities so they can fuel their own beliefs.
1 NotAJIDFShill 2017-10-03
Forgot about the age thing.
Yea that's just weird. Is everyone really young on this sub? Have they never seen a person in their 60s? Retired people still go for light jogs, bike, workout, cruises, cook. Shit I knew a 90 year old woman who still maintained her cow/milking place (fuck if I know what they're called). It was the largest on the western side of Colorado. She had help obviously but was in charge still.
The age argument is stupid. The hotel moving stuff around is stupid.
I could have a broken leg and still get all the weapons inside a hotel. Heh.
Sorry ranting. I agree with you is all.
1 versusgorilla 2017-10-03
Nah, it's cool. My cousin's 100 year old grandmother could have probably managed to move 10 guns into a hotel using dollies, valet help, and rolling suitcases over the course of four days.
People are seriously underestimating what people are capable of and using that as evidence here. It's sad to see for a group of people who consider themselves above taking facts at face value when they're told.
1 OopsAllSpells 2017-10-03
I'm not sure why you think a 64-year-old would be made of brittle bones and unable to carry anything.
1 WolfgangJones 2017-10-03
I'm an old man and get underestimated all the time. Young people assume that everyone over 50 is decrepit, demented, and impotent. However, for context, when Expendables 3 was made in 2014, the average age of Stallone, Statham, Ford, Schwarzeneggar, Gibson, Snipes, Lundgren, Banderas and Jet Li was almost 60.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
you got that right.
Im 55 y.o. and in the construction industry myself, and i usually run circles around much younger colleagues.
1 jzerocoolj 2017-10-03
old man strength is real
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
That and we know what mechanical advantage means.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
this is why you dont fuck with the old dudes onnthe jobsite. https://gfycat.com/obviousglamorousgroundhog
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
this is why you dont fuck with the old guys on a job site
https://gfycat.com/obviousglamorousgroundhog
1 seeking101 2017-10-03
my dad is 63 and it's still one of the strongest guys i know
1 TheCamelTojo 2017-10-03
They're not difficult to control. Especially when shooting at a sea of people vs one individual.
Don't try to pass yourself off as an expert on gun recoil there''s a reason the military can carry a saw and fire it from their shoulders. All it takes is 30 mins of practice at most
1 ma70jake 2017-10-03
My grandpa is 83 and golfs 2 to 3 times a week. Also walks a mile every other day at the YMCA.
1 Anna-Politkovskaya 2017-10-03
Ever heard of Hickok45? He's 67 years old.
1 Schotel 2017-10-03
This guy is 71.
1 couchumina 2017-10-03
Just saw on Aussie news they found 10 bags in the room so was probably a few trips
1 MissType 2017-10-03
There should be plenty of footage.
1 _TheRealDonaldTrump_ 2017-10-03
Or just bell service. It would be weird to make multiple trips to valet.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
People use valet multiple times in one day. Almost everyone with a rental in Vegas uses valet.
1 _TheRealDonaldTrump_ 2017-10-03
You're right but usually you have the bellman take the bags up. There should be a vid of that. And if he took them himself he would have to make multiple trips. Like you said not impossible but he would be on video a bunch going through the lobby
1 kloular 2017-10-03
They have luggage carts that hold a lot of bags. Even if the bellhop took them they wouldn't have thought anything of it. I don't see how it matters if he took his bag or if the bellhop did. It is easy to take a lot of bags to ur room...in one trip or many. They don't check ur bags and a lot of luggage doesn't raise concern. I'm not sure how his luggage plays into anything.
1 _TheRealDonaldTrump_ 2017-10-03
I'm just saying there should be vids
1 kloular 2017-10-03
I'm sure there are videos. Hours and hours of it.
1 ABagOfFritos 2017-10-03
Multiple Trip Theory is something a lot of people on this sub are ignoring.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
its just so outlandish!
1 FourFeathers88 2017-10-03
I don't see how people could be so dumb to think that if a guy spent 4 days in the room that he could nonchalantly carry multiple bags, across multiple shifts that it wouldn't be plausible. Hell when I traveled across country in the Navy, i had 4 bags just by myself. But for me it was obvious I was active duty. But still 10-15 bags is a cake walk especially after being there for 3.5 days.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
What's much less plausible is that there's no camera footage of any of these trips.
1 Ceejnew 2017-10-03
How does housekeeping never sneak in there once in that 4 days? Is it normal to have that level of privacy in those high priced rooms?
1 BarleyBo 2017-10-03
The guy was a known whale to the casinos, what's to say he didn't hire some hookers to bring some extra bags up in the previous days. I'm thinking the casino would turn a blind eye considering his high roller status.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
You can fit a lot of bags on one of those luggage carts.
1 thebongofamandabynes 2017-10-03
Do we know what kind of car he arrived in? I haven't seen any info on that yet. If it's like a Miata I call bullshit on the 10 bag thing.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
He's a white redneck who owned a lot of guns. I'd be willing to bet he doesn't own anything smaller than a midsize SUV
1 samout 2017-10-03
Redneck? Dude was a millionaire pilot and worked for NASA/Lockheed Martin and did a ton of scientific stuff. Not a redneck.
1 FourFeathers88 2017-10-03
Good call, i haven't thought about the car. I was too busy looking at Google Earth for security cameras as to where they could look for footage to confirm how many shooters there were.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
Um. More than one trip?
1 thebongofamandabynes 2017-10-03
Valet parked his car and its presumably still parked there.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
Valet is the most logical way to park your car. Everyone uses it multiple times in one day. It is free and u don't have to search for a spot. U can carry ur own luggage or get a bellhop but either way ur luggage wouldn't get a second look no matter how many bags you had.
1 Gaslightin 2017-10-03
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Gladio
1 fridaymonkeyk 2017-10-03
They just show on Las Vegas television surveillance video of Paddock drunkenly falling in the Cosmopolitan (2011) & trying to sue them.
The arbitrator said Paddock was not aggressive & most likely just liked to gamble & drink.
Doesn't really fit the Rambo operation.
1 KittyHasABeard 2017-10-03
They showed footage of him from 2011 but not from the night of the shooting?
1 Suppa_K 2017-10-03
Why is that surprising it's a fucking investigation. Stop being daft.
1 CG28 2017-10-03
We watched the footage of Columbine on TV within hours of it happening. Don't pretend that security cam footage is some sacred cow that us plebs never have access to.
1 GoriIIaboyz 2017-10-03
And that was in 99'. There are cameras on every building now.
1 CG28 2017-10-03
Yeah exactly. They're more ubiquitous than ever... and everyone also has a 1080p+ camera in their pockets.
Lots of options for hard evidence.
1 T3hSwagman 2017-10-03
That was also the first of its kind. I would sincerely hope we don't handle shit like that the same way anymore.
1 GoriIIaboyz 2017-10-03
I can watch football players beat the shit out of people in elevators,subway restaurants and bars. You can watch robberies on any gas stations surveillance. The point being made is if it involves tabloid or everyday citizens it usually makes it to the internet for us all to gawk at, but all these agenda driven shootings never once have anything leak. And they always leave questions like why is there always an active shooter drill scheduled the same day. And why does the crowd always act different than I would being shot at.
1 T3hSwagman 2017-10-03
Oh you mean you watch footage of petty crimes happening after the trials already been concluded? Not ones with an active investigation that started less than 24 hours ago? Yea you're right that's really strange.
And you're telling me that after a day of drinking while on vacation in Vegas, at a concert with music blaring and a crowd of people all around you, you'd correctly identify gunshots coming from several stories above your head, and let's not forget that the majority of those people probably haven't heard a gun outside of an action movie. You're a real fucking modern day James Bond.
1 EatATaco 2017-10-03
But doesn't this make sense from a non-conspiratorial perspective as well?
A case where someone beats the shit out of another person, it is pretty cut and dry and there is little incentive to protect the evidence. If they have a bunch of footage, and there are more people involved, it might make sense to hide footage so they don't "tip" anyone off.
Have you been shot at? Or, more accurately, have you been in a situation where you are being shot at but are not sure if it is fireworks or not? If not, you have no idea how you would act.
1 GoriIIaboyz 2017-10-03
They release what they want you to be outraged by. Just like they only release the staged film footage so it is controlled to their narrative. I'm not saying this didn't happen I'm just saying they never happen the way we were told.
No I haven't been shot at and you're right to the point I don't truly know how I would react. But I'm not sitting around questioning. I'm just leaving.
1 EatATaco 2017-10-03
There are all kinds of motives for releasing things. However, the reality is that I think there are more motives to keep shootings like this underwrap than there are for celebrities doing stupid, abhorrent shit. And more motives to release the latter.
Unless you are questioning whether or not it is gun fire at all. You are at a concert, it is loud, no one else is running, you are maybe not completely sober, so putting myself in their shoes, it makes sense to me that they may not even realize it. On top of that, you don't know how you are going to act when that "shock" overtakes you that your life might be immediately on the line. It's easy to say what you would do when you can sit and rationally think about it, its much different in the heat of the moment. I'm not so confident that I wouldn't act stupidly as well.
1 dapala1 2017-10-03
Judging from your rant you probably didn't know that the camera's are owned by MGM and it's MGMs discretion on when to release the footage. I'm sure they were asked and complied to hold off on releasing the footage as this is an ongoing investigation.
1 IHateSherrod 2017-10-03
No - no we didn't. Fottage from the inside was definitely no released until months or even years later. Stop spreading misinformation.
1 CG28 2017-10-03
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2000-04-28/news/0004280116_1_columbine-families-columbine-high-school-tapes
You're right. It took longer much longer than I remembered. Nearly a year.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
And yet footage from Sandy Hook was never released.
1 YPG-Got-Raqqa 2017-10-03
Well if he was shooting from inside the hotel room there won't be much to see on surveillance.
1 CG28 2017-10-03
Yeah, we won't actually see the guy taking the shots, but we'd be able to watch him cart several backs back and forth, through the lobby, etc, etc, etc.
1 vensorvi 2017-10-03
CCTV n Vegas is like the UK. They'd have more than a few lobby vids.
1 CG28 2017-10-03
Yeah... have you ever seen the roof of a casino? There's a PTZ camera every 10 feet in every direction. No way there isn't video.
1 SpongeBobSquarePants 2017-10-03
Most don't know you can take a gun apart and think he openly carried weapons into the lobby an no one noticed.
1 stinkstick17 2017-10-03
Or most people here have obviously never been in a strip hotel lobby, the lobbys are massive with literally hundreds of people with bags/luggage everywhere.
Absolutly nothing would stand out about this guy, no matter how many trips he took outside to his car or how many bags he brought in
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
At this point they cant even show us footage proving he was at the hotel
1 stinkstick17 2017-10-03
Yea thats true, i cant argue that, i have not seen any footage on tv of him anywhere entering or exiting the hotel.
I will absolutly conceded that.
1 cryptnonospot 2017-10-03
Why is that surprising it's a fucking investigation. Stop being daft.
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
So when you give your shit to the police for an investigation, you can't somehow release something you don't have. Good god. It's a casino, they don't triple back up their video. Probably one HDD with the footage that was given to the popo right away.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
I was just at a hotel in May that I have no footage proving so therefore I wasn't there and it's a false memory?
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
you didn't allegedly murder 50+ people.
1 SpongeBobSquarePants 2017-10-03
It is highly likely that you would not believe the footage if they released it.
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
Well we can cross that bridge if we get to it. The point is there is no footage. but they can post pics of his guns, his room, and his body.
1 SpongeBobSquarePants 2017-10-03
See you won't believe it. It is like the flat eathers no matter what they say they will accept as evidence once you provide it they say it is fake.
You know, or should know, that footage like this isn't normally released in the early stages of an investigation unless doing so would help them find people involved or people in danger.
I don't get why people who think this is a hoax think those behind it are so remarkably dumb. It stands to reason that, if this was a hoax, those behind it would plan it better than a high school one act play.
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
RIGHT, but they can release pics of evidence, of his room, of his body, etc. dumb people...man they flood this sub.
1 SpongeBobSquarePants 2017-10-03
Yes they can and typically do release such information early like this. You spin typical behavior as conspiratorial because you are unwilling to examine things with an open mind. You appear to already know what happened and are search for evidence to prove that.
1 DucAdVeritatem 2017-10-03
Except they haven’t “released” any of that stuff.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
cant? or wont?
Its not that unusual for investigators withhold video until afterany investigations.
1 ZeePirate 2017-10-03
When they do you'll bitch about it anyway.
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
An you will bitch about right the MSM is faggot
1 mattymck 2017-10-03
even at a relatively quiet hotel people wouldnt bat an eye. People have bags with them when going to a hotel
1 DrBadTouch22 2017-10-03
Actually it seems like there’s a lack of an investigation. They didn’t even need to release anything about this guy until they knew 100% what happened. He’s already been found guilty by the court of public opinion. If they don’t release security footage from outside of his room, it’s shady.
1 48packet 2017-10-03
Agreed. Even fucking McDonald's has cams everywhere. How can this major high-rise resort not have something to show us. Maybe because he was dragged in by someone else, or maybe he came in in a bag.
Either way show us something. Shady as fuck.
1 DrBadTouch22 2017-10-03
They can’t. Someone in this thread was saying they worked in the casinos and 9 out of 10 don’t have cameras once you get away from the elevators. That’s not accurate at all. They claimed they don’t worry about guest security as much as their money which is probably true. But one thing Vegas doesn’t fuck around with is liability. Anything that happens in their hotel they want it on camera. Obviously there’s not a camera on every door, but every hallway is covered.
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
DURING AN INVESTIGATION YOU TURN SHIT OVER TO THE POLICE. THEY DO NOT HAVE IT. FUCKING CHRIST.
1 Thugosaurus_Rex 2017-10-03
McDonald's can have cameras everywhere because the average McDonald's is 4-5k square feet. A 32+ story hotel would need hundreds to thousands of cameras to meet the same coverage. It's not a feasible comparison. They'll have cameras covering the major common areas, but it's not unreasonable that they won't have complete and constant coverage of all areas of individual hotel hallways or room entrances. They likely have footage of the guy in the main common areas, and with luggage, but that's likely it--and as the investigation is ongoing, I wouldn't expect a release for some time.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
I'm sure it's all just a horrible misunderstanding.
1 DJ_Dont_Panic 2017-10-03
It's surprising that they've managed to dig up some slightly inflammatory video of him from so many years ago.
1 FreaksAtNight 2017-10-03
It is? Everything is kept in databases now, some lawyer probably recognized his name and searched for it.
1 isjoshlive 2017-10-03
Oh shit I didn't fucking Columbo was on Reddit. Both are extremely important. Release the footage.
1 Spartyjason 2017-10-03
He sued for that incident so the video had been pulled long ago.
1 bigodiel 2017-10-03
Nothing makes sense. This is why I'm still not buying the official story, which in itself still has him as "alleged shooter".
1 flyPeterfly 2017-10-03
Personally haven't heard the word 'alleged' used once, for what it's worth.
1 WeCametoReign 2017-10-03
Something ain't right here.
1 Colonel_Chestbridge1 2017-10-03
And they're already saying "lone wolf" when there were reports and eyewitness accounts of multiple shooters. And that Audi car bomb. Sound like another woman involved too. Fishy.
1 YogurtCoveredAsian 2017-10-03
Many people called saying they saw more shooters. These 'shooters' were SWAT teams with guns entering the hotel. I also heard off-duty cops were in the area with weapons.
Just because some civilian saw someone with a gun, doesn't mean it was another shooter.
1 nochilifordinner 2017-10-03
Lol thats ridiculous.
1 RobochanAdmin 2017-10-03
Wow, that's interesting...maybe the Cosmopolitian wanted to make sure he wouldn't file any more lawsuits against them. Casino has more than enough money to hire psy ops, they're probably intertwined with the CIA putting money into their slush fund, so it would just be another false flag operation to them.
1 kurwacotyrobisz 2017-10-03
What?
1 sevenonone 2017-10-03
Couldn't you just bring them in in golf club cases the airline ones? Broken down you could fit a couple in, maybe more, if you do it over the course of a few hours, nobody is going to notice. It's not like he has to walk in with ten rifle cases.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
Nobody is saying they expect to see him walking in with rifle cases. But the footage must exist because these cameras are everywhere in Vegas. If we don't see the footage we know something's up. That's the point.
1 Appallingstench 2017-10-03
Shit, less than a couple of days since the biggest shooting of recent times and we haven’t released any of the footage that reddit is demanding? This after being condemned after releasing footage of the Manchester Bombings very soon after the event?
Stop that fucking investigation Kowalski - we need to get fucking uploading to fucking YouTube. And none of your 720p crap, otherwise we’ll be accused of hiding something.
Have a word with yourself.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
Do you honestly think that reporters aren't scrambling to get that footage? That they aren't willing to pay for an exclusive report showing him walking in. What about the other casino owners that would want to see the footage to know what to look out for.
Besides, I never said anything about them taking too long to show the footage or that we should have already seen it. But if it is never released then we should be suspicious of that. I would expect it to be released relatively quickly since the shooter is dead.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-paddock-had-19-rifles-in-room-1506985512-htmlstory.html
1 tenyj 2017-10-03
"unfortunately every single camera in the neighborhood malfunctioned as stephen was checking in"
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
I guarantee you that footage of Stephen checking in would be useless and would look completely normal. As someone who works in large casinos and hotels, it's not uncommon at all to have somebody walk in with multiple very large luggage bags. It's not surprising or suspicious. Have you ever taken apart a gun? Cleaned a gun? You can make an AR rifle fit into a small backpack, and tripods and other modifications are made for easy transport most of the time with foldable parts. Here's what you'd see...
•Older man with large bags at hotel desk surrounded by hundreds of others with large bags.
•older man getting into elevator with his bags.
And if you're lucky, the hotel floors themselves have cameras but I've worked at 2 large resorts and both of them had no footage on the floors themselves. Only downstairs where all the assets are, and the elevators going up to the hotels. After that? Zip.
1 KittyHasABeard 2017-10-03
It would still be useful to see that he did actually have large bags with him, to support the fact that it was he who brought the guns in, and he who used them. If they came into the room to find this man dead on the floor by all these guns, who's to say someone else didn't just choose a random person's hotel room, shoot him dead, carry out the attack, and then make it look like he was the only person there and had committed suicide?
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Yeah, I get that. But there's also nothing stopping him from leaving and coming back multiple times throughout multiple days. You'd need footage of his vehicle and every time it left, if if did. If his vehicle was parked in valet it should be under surveillance. If it stayed parked for 4 days, and the footage of him checking in doesn't look suspicious... then we have something.
1 Homako1920 2017-10-03
That wouldn't be hard to do. Who cares show the footage in the elevator or the story is bullshit. Point blank period. Every mass shooting never has any footage, sandy hook, Orlando, and now this. Of course he could have done it over multiple trips. Compile the footage and release it. You act like the media wouldn't be all over that film if it actually existed.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
It 100% exists unless the surveillance department erased it. Which would be EXTREMELY suspect. I agree I think they should release it, they have nothing to lose of their narrative is correct.
1 Holy-Kush 2017-10-03
I don't think that they are allowed to release something like that. It goes to FBI / Homeland or something and I honestly think that right now every second this man has made in Vegas is being analyzed by some team.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
They're not. You're right, and I think we will get a lot more info soon. It's quiet right now because it's still very fresh. There's nothing on the surface to really point to here so it's going to take some digging from the authorities.
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
Meaning we will never told shit
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
IT HAPPENED LESS THAN TWO DAYS AGO. Give it some fucking time you nut.
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
If you think you are going to be told the truth in a week or whatever bullshit you have in your head, then you are in fact the "nut" my friend
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
If you think you're going to see seized lobby footage form a hotel during an active investigation...
1 QuitCallingNewsrooms 2017-10-03
Yep. The footage has been taken by federal investigators and won’t be shown because there won’t be a trial since the suspected shooter is dead.
But they do show surveillance footage in trials. There was a camera outside the church in Charleston that captured the killer entering and exiting with a gun in his hand.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
They also show footage when the gunmen are dead. Columbine High School is one such example.
1 murica4357 2017-10-03
Any link to this footage? I would like to see as I have yet to explore the Columbine incident into detail.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
google is your friend.
Its been a while since ive seen any of the footage. Not sure where to find any these days. And considering how hard various gun lobbyist work to defend their bullshit, it wouldnt surprise me if it has been hidden on the best place to hide a body-on the second page of google search results.
1 murica4357 2017-10-03
Found it. My dumbass wasn't even thinking to google it. My apologies. Guess my sub conscious was telling me to be lazy and let someone else do it.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
i think they look back on that as a mistake because they think it contributed to multiple copycats.
i think they make a concerted effort these days to not give these types the fame they and notoriety they seek
1 MuchoMaas49 2017-10-03
That's not true at all. The 'anthrax' guy had a trial, they're just different when the suspect is deceased.
1 QuitCallingNewsrooms 2017-10-03
Which anthrax guy? The Army guy from like 2000?
1 MuchoMaas49 2017-10-03
Yes, and his family had issues with the show trial.
1 QuitCallingNewsrooms 2017-10-03
Nah, Bruce Ivins killed himself before charges could be formally filed. He never went to trial. It took feds a few years to release their findings on the evidence linking him to it though, but I’m not sure that included video.
1 FriendlessComputer 2017-10-03
Yeah, the people calling for the release of the tapes know this, and know it won't be released until an investigation is complete. They're propagating a condition to believe the shooting that is impossible to meet so they can use it as FALSE FLAG evidence.
1 Egobeliever 2017-10-03
Lobby and ground floor footage would be plenty, I think.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
I would be happy if we saw anything at all. I'm actually pretty impressed that there's a decent amount of footage from the concert, considering there was no footage from the concert in Paris which is total crap.
1 TerryPreston 2017-10-03
The FBI has all that footage now.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
None made it to Facebook, YouTube, etc? Video can be uploaded almost in real time now. Vegas is a perfect example of what should have happened in Paris
1 TerryPreston 2017-10-03
Only shaky cell phone camera videos, like every attack.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
Do you have a link to footage from Paris?
1 MasterGrok 2017-10-03
That is reasonable but you are underestimating how readily some people will move goal posts when the first round of evidence doesn't meet their narrative.
1 Egobeliever 2017-10-03
Oh no. I'm not underestimating, I know you have a solid point. I see it all the time. I love debating conspiracies but it must be done logically and reasonably. The investigation must determine the story, not the other way around.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Sadly the repercussions tied to this aren't fueled with logic and reason, they're fueled with emotion and misrepresentation/half-truths.
1 Todos1881 2017-10-03
Just like how a video of the plane hitting the Pentagon would shut up the vast majority of truthers saying it wasn't a plane or how the cctv of Adam Lanza pulling up outfront Sandy Hook would be enough for people. But for some reason our government doesn't like to show that stuff.
You would think they would want to show it to make conspiracy theorists all seem wrong and insane?
1 lambocinnialfredo 2017-10-03
They don't need footage to do that....
1 Todos1881 2017-10-03
I'd be perfectly happy just see him carrying the luggage from a garage. I'm not on the bandwagon of this being a false flag. I'm just open to things and would consiser it a little suspect if we don't see him carrying any of these bags.
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
Oh but we can be told that he ammonium nitrate in his home car immediately. Right.
1 AaronSwartz56 2017-10-03
everyone is citing legal reasons and to me that sounds like bullshit.
release the video. why can't the population be informed? why can we crowd solve problems?
1 snypesalot 2017-10-03
Like reddit "crowd solving" the Boston Bombing by brigading the wrong guy?
1 AaronSwartz56 2017-10-03
no, like if they actually involved us in the process so there was some sort of baseline for operations, where people could give information to the police and then the authorities determine what is use-able and what is reddit bullshit.
like, idk, community policing for example, where the police build relationships with the community rather than become this militaristic hand of the elite.
1 revofire 2017-10-03
They are the militaristic hand of the elite in many ways, so... it's kind of too late for that.
1 uberduger 2017-10-03
I disagree about 'nothing to lose'.
I would like them to release this footage, but as I said elsewhere in this thread, Vegas is about 80-90% about the prestige. Showing a terrorist / madman going past their security with bags of guns would gain them nothing but could harm their future business.
If I was in the same position they were in, I'd give the footage to authorities, but I'd fight to keep it out of the public eye. It just makes more business sense.
1 Pancakes1 2017-10-03
Yes but we wanna see
1 Weedwacker3 2017-10-03
Because they went to his house and it was filled with guns
1 morkman100 2017-10-03
And they already checked with the gun shops where he purchased the weapons and they confirmed it was him but that nothing was out of ordinary with him or his purchases.
1 Weedwacker3 2017-10-03
It's a very narrow window.
Not enough evidence? Obviously a conspiracy, too many loose ends
Tons of clear evidence? Obviously a conspiracy, too neat and tidy
1 TheWebOfSlime 2017-10-03
That would be a good distraction while another casino was being robbed.
1 YogurtCoveredAsian 2017-10-03
Do you think after they found him dead, they wiped the room clean and took everything out? No... They do an investigation which will include checking to see if there's residue on his hands, fingerprints on the guns etc..
He'll likely have many marks on him that verify he was the one shooting. They don't just say 'Welp, he's dead, clean this place up and bury the body'.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
If there is individual floor footage, identifying the other people visiting his room (if any) would be helpful.
1 GailaMonster 2017-10-03
The amount of weapons and bomb-making materials found both in the deceased man's home and vehicle make that frame job considerably more complicated...
1 AverageJoeAudiophile 2017-10-03
Your basic AR15 can fit into a backpack. There is ZERO reason to think he would have these abnormally large bags.
1 tenyj 2017-10-03
would be interesting to see who else entered his room
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Very likely won't have that footage. 9 times out of 10 the surveillance coverage stops after the elevators. Surveillance would be able to determine who got off on his floor but not be able to confirm who went into his room and when. I can only think of one Vegas resort with hotel surveillance coverage, and that's Caesars. Casinos care less about safety of the guests and more about their assets and employees integrity.
1 Afrobean 2017-10-03
Electronic locks keep a record of everyone who accesses them. There may not be video footage, but we could knot without a doubt every time his room's door was unlocked while he was checked in to that room. No matter what there is useful information that can be obtained, assuming the investigators working the case are doing their job properly.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
No it keeps a record of a key being used and what time the keys aren't necessarily registered to an individual, just to the room. It really proves nothing. He could have gone out to the hallway to get ice 20 times and the key would register as 20 entries to the room.
1 n1ght_cab 2017-10-03
someone could have left when shooting began
1 T3hSwagman 2017-10-03
You don't use a card to exit a hotel room.
1 TheWiredWorld 2017-10-03
You seem to be dead set on disuading people from investigating. I wonder why.
1 OopsAllSpells 2017-10-03
TIL explaining how basic things work = dissuading. Am I dissuading you from investigating by explaining that the trees in the forest don't have AV surveillance in them to determine whether the tree made a sound when it fell?
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Lol. Don't be delusional, I think there may be some interesting things here too I'm just shedding some light based on the experience I have. I happen to have a lot of career experience in casinos and resorts just like the one the shooter was in. Not everything is a fucking 10 dimensional puzzle piece.
1 your_boy100 2017-10-03
You're bringing up a lot of valid points and info that the counter argument will make later on. Doing this helps break down the various options and how things could have gone down. Plus you're not being hostile or a dick so keep doing you.
Seeing the key log may not give us the smoking gun but it may give some helpful info. Like say some one entered the room after we see Stephen getting on the elevator to go down stairs.
And seeing what kind of luggage and how many pieces of luggage will help decide if he really did bring 23 guns and ammo and all the other equipment. 23 guns will not be light, so he would have most likely needed large rolling luggage. It also wouldnt be a cloth or stiff fabric kind. It would be a hard shell. But if he is seen making multiple trips with small bags then that would also be a possibility.
There's a lot of ways he could have gotten the guns up there. But if the videos don't show lots of trips with small bags or one very large piece of luggage(or two or 3)then he most likely didn't bring them up(or had a helped who is still on the loose).
If he had a helper and the investigators saw that then they are not going to release the tapes and tip off the helper, so they can go into hiding. Or speed up a second act.
1 Ayzmo 2017-10-03
Last I heard, they said 10 luggage bags.
1 obsessile 2017-10-03
So they should have video of this guy bringing in a lot of bags.
1 Ayzmo 2017-10-03
I'm sure there is video. I don't know how long a hotel like Mandalay Bay tends to keep video, I'd imagine that it recycles after a period of time unless there's a reason to keep a segment.
1 obsessile 2017-10-03
Hopefully l9nger than 4 daya. But I'm sure it will be "the video was destroyed by a ricochet" or something.
1 Ayzmo 2017-10-03
My guess is that a hotel like the Mandalay, with a casino and a huge amount of traffic, will keep it longer than a Motel 6. The FBI probably already has the footage in their possession and is reviewing it to see if they can find anything.
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
They wouldn't even have the footage anymore. Anything needed for an investigation would be seized.
1 Ayzmo 2017-10-03
Yes, I imagine the harddrive would have been confiscated.
1 your_boy100 2017-10-03
Damnnnnn. Ok. Then they should definitely have footage of him using one of the carts or making a lot of trips.
1 CG28 2017-10-03
Yeah kinda weird.
He's saying it's not worth looking into because the results aren't exciting...
Lots of "could haves" and "maybes" and "very likelys" which all mean absolutely nothing.
1 T3hSwagman 2017-10-03
He's talking common sense. Really thinking the keycard is going to tell you anything? That's just stupid.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
some keycard systems can give you such info. Because of the costs of installing such a system,though, hotel cardkeys usually arent that type.
1 stinkstick17 2017-10-03
Because he works in the industry and he’s giving honest rational answers.
1 live52 2017-10-03
Yeah, he works in the "industry," because he said so. Which industry?
1 stinkstick17 2017-10-03
Re-read his very first comment.
‘ As someone who works in large casinos and hotels”
Ok, so you think hes full of shit, gotcha, whatever.
1 live52 2017-10-03
Not saying that, but after all, he's just somebody on the Internet. Do you believe all you read?
1 stinkstick17 2017-10-03
Ok let me ask you, what specifically do you think he is either wrong or lying about?
1 OopsAllSpells 2017-10-03
Just want to say thank you for calm explaining the simple common sense answers to people dead set on their preconceived narrative. This sub (ostensibly) is about critical thinking, skepticism, and ruling out what doesn't make sense, but that seems to be less valued lately especially with certain topics.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Thanks. I keep my mouth shut about stuff when I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is something I have particular insight into because of my line of work. Just trying to think rationally and go one step at a time until more info comes out. This sub needs to go back toward skepticism and critical thinking instead of the echo chamber of fanatics that think everything is a conspiracy by nature just because It was posted here. Some things in this world are super fishy, some are simple and as they seem.
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
If you don't want to talk about the bullshit facts that don't add up, then stay the fuck off the thread, and keep your mouth shut.
1 YPG-Got-Raqqa 2017-10-03
Where does it keep this record? Does it have some sort of radio transmitter that send this info to a server in the hotel office? I worked at a big chain hotel when I was younger and there there is no system like that.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
It's saved locally on the electronic keypad. In order to retrieve the info you need to take a reader up to the room and download the data off of the keypad. All the places I worked at, that's how it was done. It wasn't sent to any sort of server or cloud.
1 MidevilDanivia 2017-10-03
I got lost in the arguments... Would there be timestamps on entries into the room? Because timestamps and videos could get you somewhere. Maybe not, but what would it hurt?
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Yeah when you check into a hotel room in Vegas you typically get 2 hotel keys for that room unless you ask for more, then they'll give them to you. The keys have a temporary access code on them and if you use one on the keypad, it will leave a timestamp and tell you which key was used. But like I said before that doesn't mean much if there's no videos in the hotel.
1 MidevilDanivia 2017-10-03
I agree with what you're saying. But if you match that with videos, one day we could have something. I know there's an "if" in there, still worth having if possible.
1 RobochanAdmin 2017-10-03
Maybe where you work, but those things have to communicate with a server to check if a key is still valid. Were there other keys (besides housekeeping) that could open that door that would allow someone else in? (Even housekeeping isn't foolproof, they make skimmers for every reader imaginable)
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
I don't have much experience with the key in systems personally. I have worked investigations and security and surveillance. When we need information on key-ins, we leave it to the locksmith to come up and run the info. So maybe there's a step im missing. I wasn't a tech guy.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
former cardkey system installer checking in.
While there are systems that report back,they are usually of the type used in situations where access is needs to be strictly controlled due to either the sensitive nature of whatever is being protected or because of the monetary value of what is being protected.
Believe it or not,a hotel room doesnt fall into either of those categories.
1 jziegle2 2017-10-03
You could check when the room was entered and cross reference that with surveillance video of him entering/leaving the casino to determine if another person had accessed the room. Any competent investigator would do this.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
If he stays upstairs that means nothing if there's no video up there. Do you know how many people are in a big Vegas resort hotel tower at one time?
1 Chokaholic 2017-10-03
Right, but it would still be interesting to track all of his actions leading up to this event. We can never have too much information. Heck, I'd like to see his location Services on his phone for the months leading up to this shooting.
1 YPG-Got-Raqqa 2017-10-03
Most hotels don't keep records of every time every door was opened with a key card. That would require an incredibly complex and expensive system compared to one that just opens doors.
1 Afrobean 2017-10-03
You have absolutely no idea how electronic hotel door locks work. Please do not speak as if you do.
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
Thank you. That is all
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
actually, most hotel door locks dont report when they are being used.
source: I used to work as an installer of card key systems. While there are systems that report back, hotel locks are seldom that type.
1 Afrobean 2017-10-03
Why do people keep lying about this? The electronic doors used in hotels keep track of when they're accessed and by what type of key. There's no "reporting back" necessary. The information is stored on the lock and it can be retrieved electronically by employees if the need arises. Source: the hotel where I have been working for the past decade has allowed me to personally witness the engineers using a special device to retrieve such information from room locks. They call it lock interrogation.
1 Mrfadal 2017-10-03
I've been in hotels in suburbs that have cameras in the halls of hotels. You're telling me Vegas is going to stop footage at the elevator. Give me a break.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Yeah I'm telling you that most of them do not have hallway coverage in the hotel towers. I don't need to "give you a break" when I've literally spent the last 6 years of my life working In Atlantic City and Vegas. I can't speak to the hotel that the shooter was in, as I haven't been in that one specifically.
1 RobochanAdmin 2017-10-03
So you're unqualified to speak on this matter. Got it.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Is everyone that posts on here an asshole with a double digit IQ or just you?
1 RobochanAdmin 2017-10-03
Some excellent disinformation tactics right there, insulting my intelligence! Make sure to say hi to TMOR for me, and let them know I had to take a bath in aloe vera because that burn was so sick!
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
I'm done with you go play in the chem trails child.
1 snypesalot 2017-10-03
And what makes you qualified? This person commenting has at least worked in the industry in Vegas and youre saying he isnt qualified but you are?
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
in this sub anyone who disagrees with you is either unqualified or paid to do so
1 outbackdude 2017-10-03
caling BS here. most hotels I have been to have multiple cameras on each floor. casinos are likely to have more cameras than regular hotels.
1 FourFeathers88 2017-10-03
So most modern hotels have key cards. I would love to see the hotel run a report of how many keys were issued. Most times when you check in, they give you at least two. Im curious to see if there were more than two keys issued.
1 n1ght_cab 2017-10-03
so whats if its normal from first look,lets see WHAT theres is first and then judge
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
I agree. Was just trying to say it's not the missing link to all the answers.
1 vensorvi 2017-10-03
The fuck you talking about they would have footage of this guy for days and would literally confirm or deny a lot of surrounding conspiracy.
1 CG28 2017-10-03
It's boring, but I still wanna see it.
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
ok well the can show normal footage of him then. I don't even believe that he was even at the hotel.
1 stinkstick17 2017-10-03
Why, on what do you base this on?
1 snypesalot 2017-10-03
The evil govment /s
1 DrDerpinheimer 2017-10-03
I don't think there's a conspiracy here, but I'd like to see the footage. Even if all it shows is how easily large weapons can be concealed.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
I would like to see it as well. Mostly because I work surveillance and one thing Vegas doesn't skimp on is surveillance. If they try to say the footage doesn't exist I will become highly highly skeptical because i know for a 100% fact that anyone who checked into that hotel WILL be on surveillance no fucking exceptions.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
As a former security/cctv installer that has been to Vegas, i have to agree with this 100%.
The cctv systems used by the casinos are the best that money can buy.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
they break down. look at a video of an AR15 being broken down into its component parts for cleaning
1 jashleyren2 2017-10-03
is it possible that the powers that be don't see a need for the public to see that footage? For one, they are still pouring over it themselves, 40 hours after the crime. For another thought, why do they need to share that with us? This crime has been committed, no one in the public caught it before hand, and no in law enforcement was any better at it.
Right now, each and every one of us is just having conversation because we don't care about NFL players kneeling at a game. And nobody got in a fight at Charlottesville this weekend. And nothing else we have talked to death is as hot of a topic as this one.
1 DrDerpinheimer 2017-10-03
I don't think they have to show us anything. I just said I'd like to see it.
1 mikellerseviltwin 2017-10-03
the point would be to start piecing together what people thought happened, with actual pieces of facts. If he checked in with one single small bag or something, well then how the weapons got up there becomes a whole different story. Its not about confirming the entire investigation based of the video of him checking in, its about creating a timeline and validating things you believe to be true.
I feel like this is obvious.
1 vensorvi 2017-10-03
What lol... the actual evidence not important you say?
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
You need to go back to 8th grade reading comprehension if that's the message you thought that paragraph was conveying.
1 vensorvi 2017-10-03
Useless you say?
1 FORKinmyDICK 2017-10-03
How? If you confirm he brought the rifles in that in of in itself be minimally useful.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
I mean if you think a guy walking up to a room with a couple big bags automatically confirms they're full of rifles then sure. You're not going to see someone carrying guns through the lobby. If he looked innocent enough to check in, the video will be innocent enough to still leave tons of speculation.
1 FORKinmyDICK 2017-10-03
Some random guy yeah it is meaningless. But if the suspected shooter carrying several large bags into his room is a totally different story. 19 long guns even broken down still would take up a bunch of bags. It is so odd you would be so against looking at security camera footage because it would be "useless", it just simply wouldn't be, it would serve some purpose.
You're making a ton of assumptions, you literally do not know that.
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
One big duffle for 10 guns, one big duffle for 9 guns, and one big duffle for ammo. Done.
1 FORKinmyDICK 2017-10-03
10? Know the real numbers and facts before you try and discuss it.
1 isjoshlive 2017-10-03
The video would be proof he was at the hotel and on that floor. Sounds pretty important to me.
1 dapala1 2017-10-03
He would've walked in with no bags, checked in, then park his car. The parking lot is not next to the lobby. Its on the other side of the casino.
1 FORKinmyDICK 2017-10-03
Why does it matter where he parked? They physically had to pass through the entrances to get to his room. I really don't see how that makes a difference unless you're implying there was an entrance he found in the parking lot that had 0 cameras ever on him.
1 dapala1 2017-10-03
I'm referring to the fact that the footage of him checking in would be meaningless. That's all.
1 FORKinmyDICK 2017-10-03
And my point is that it is indeed not a fact but an opinion and most likely would have some useful context it would support or provide.
1 vaper1978 2017-10-03
Seriously ?
Cameras are everywhere ... I'm not saying it's a conspiracy because they haven't released that footage by ANY means - I'm just thoroughly shocked they wouldnt have cameras throughout the entire buildng
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Okay well it's a budget thing. Why would they put cameras in the hotel towers when it doesn't benefit them financially? A casino/resort is a business. Of course downstairs is LITTERED with surveillance but it costs millions and millions to build a surveillance infrastructure throughout a giant hotel and if they don't care what goes on up there, (most don't) why spend the money? I'm just telling you what I KNOW from experience and years in the career field. You guys can keep speculating and acting like you're the experts but I have no reason to lie to anyone about it.
1 uberduger 2017-10-03
I could envisage situations where someone fakes a bad fall or physical/sexual assault incident in the hopes that the casino will give them a settlement. Cameras could protect against that.
Not saying you're wrong of course, but that would be a potential financial incentive for a wider security system.
1 lolzwinner 2017-10-03
oh look another expert..... not to worry everyone believe everything the TOP COMMENT SAYS ON EVERY THREAD
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
I'm literally a casino surveillance expert. It's literally my job. I don't pretend to know everything about everything but this is something I can speak about with expertise. You want to choose to ignore me and act like you know what you're talking about go for it I don't give a shit.
1 ed_at_work 2017-10-03
Half these neckbeards have never travelled with a wife/spouse and their 20,000+ bags of luggage. If a high spender rolls into a large suite, its pretty damn well accepted that there will be lots of luggage
1 wolf_and_blade 2017-10-03
My ex-wife did this crap. A bag for shoes, a bag for makeup, a bag for dressy clothes, a bag for regular day wear, some el gigante purse... bitch, we're staying for two nights. Two. You don't need to bring 11 dresses. Even five gives you enough choices, you know?
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
Or, the people coming into Vegas for a trade show. Some have their entire booths packed into a giant Pelican case. There are ones out there that would hold every rifle he had, and another, say 2 for the ammo/magazines.
1 wolf_and_blade 2017-10-03
It's so easy to break an AR15 down, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he got everything in on one trip.
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
I might carry one that I may or may not have in a tennis racket case to go or not go to the range. Bunch of nervous nannies in the apartment complex I may or may not live in that would throw a shit fit if they saw me carrying or not carrying a rifle case through the courtyard.
1 wolf_and_blade 2017-10-03
Smart. I used a guitar case, when I lived in a typical big city where everyone drinks some frothy bullshit from Starbucks and the thought of firing a weapon made them soil their pants.
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
It was all a money thing. Got the cheaper thing.
Someone eve asked my opinion on racket cases while I was at the store. I kind of laughed and said "the cheapest they have" and walked away.
1 wolf_and_blade 2017-10-03
Ha! I love it. Stay safe, stay vigilant!
1 AverageJoeAudiophile 2017-10-03
Or ever picked up a gun.
1 Juicechased 2017-10-03
God damn dude . Why even make a counter argument . Let's just see the footages all of them . Stop with your bul Shit . You ain't fooling nobody
1 lllAMGlll 2017-10-03
Doesn't make me want to see it any less
1 jbass55 2017-10-03
No man, irrational conspiracies are so much more believable!!! Durrrr stay woke durrr /s
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
If he had as much ammo as they claim, the videos could show the older man slightly struggling to carry it up. Ammo is heavy as fuck. Even for handguns. If he had thousands of rounds for 10 rifles, that shit would not be something easy to be carrying around
1 sasquaturd 2017-10-03
23 guns. That's a lot of weight for one thing. Secondly the ammo and other equipment on top of that.
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
Cool. Let's see it.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
I have worked in a smaller hotel in a smaller town and was kinda surprised that we didn't have any CCTV.
1 Arkfort 2017-10-03
Source?
1 Manalore 2017-10-03
Unfortunately I don't have links to the various future TWP, NYT, THP, Buzzfeed, Snopes articles that have not come out yet that will most likely contain something equally ridiculous as this statement.
1 kurwacotyrobisz 2017-10-03
Between his cheeks
1 the_opester 2017-10-03
No no no. One of the planes from 9/11 cut the feed
1 blobley 2017-10-03
I know this is /r/conspiracy but for Vegas its a normal thing to see someone bringing (that many) guns into a hotel. Vegas is a huge hub for gunshows. Just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents.
1 showmeurboobsplznthx 2017-10-03
Just like Sandy hook, it'll be national security and be sealed.... Then anyone who challenges it is insensitive.
1 ashlerrr 2017-10-03
Yeah but the only reason the Sandy Hook conspiracy is "insensitive" is because it's allegedly a hoax. We already know this isn't a hoax because theres tons of actual footage of people being shot and dying. People don't generally say that false flag conspiracies are insensitive, they only get testy when you allege that the victims didn't actually die.
1 wilykily 2017-10-03
There was no evidence released to the public and it was all destroyed along with the school building itself. It was a FEMA drill.
1 US_Dept_of_Defence 2017-10-03
The number one rule of any footage released to the public is: Don't show videos of people getting shot.
It's traumatic for anyone who knows the person, even more so for the ones who survived. I remember a while back, a news company did actually show it and the backlash from that was EXTREME.
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
Show or date range?
1 EatATaco 2017-10-03
What are you talking about? There were no recordings at Sandy Hook so there were no videos for them to seal. The police actually released videos of them investigating the school and the shooter's home.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
The school had a brand new security system installed including a camera that would take a photo of someone walking to the front door. Since Lanza supposedly entered the school through the front door there should be clear footage of him. Yet it has never been released.
1 EatATaco 2017-10-03
There was one camera, on the front door, that had no recording capability. It was simply used to visually observe who was at the front door. This is a typical setup for front door cameras used on buildings everywhere.
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
literally how it works in CT. there's a camera at the front door so you can see who you buzz in. otherwise, everyone in the buildings are either kids or teachers, and who the fuck pays into the education budget so much for full security cameras and 100% monitoring up time? Not CT, I can tell you that. Not even my HS had an all day camera station.
1 GETMONEYGETPAlD 2017-10-03
I’m not even on the “Sandy Hook was a hoax” bandwagon, but I didn’t know there was NO footage until your comment. I assumed it was sealed. What kind of school doesn’t have cameras in this day and age? My middle school had them in 2001.
1 EatATaco 2017-10-03
I would think a lot of schools. Like most in rich suburbs where there aren't many issues that the school would feel the need to get cameras.
According to this, about 75% have cameras. But that doesn't make it clear (at least from my quick glance) if Sandy Hook, because it has this monitoring device on the front door, would be included.
1 GETMONEYGETPAlD 2017-10-03
My school was in a rich white suburb, even more reason to have cameras because they probably have a decent budget. My sister is in high school and they’ve had locked doors at all times, metal detectors, and multiple cameras for almost a decade in a very rich suburb.
1 EatATaco 2017-10-03
You are confusing the ability to afford it with the need for it.
I grew up in a rich white suburb. Almost nothing went on at my school except for the occasional fight, or kids smoking pot in the parking lot. It would have been completely silly for us to have had cameras installed everywhere, even if they were able to afford it.
But, anyway, I gave you the numbers and there is no evidence that Sandy Hook had any cameras, other than the front door one, which had no recording capabilities. Whether or not they should have is another story.
1 GETMONEYGETPAlD 2017-10-03
I’m not confusing anything. I have cameras and guns in my home and have never NEEDED to use them, nor do I expect to. It’s a precautionary step I’d much prefer my children’s school to have.
1 showmeurboobsplznthx 2017-10-03
The school had installed 16 cameras. They released a grainy photo of him entering the school but that's it.... They should just release the video. It's withheld for national security...
1 EatATaco 2017-10-03
Where is the evidence that they had 16 cameras? I've never seen that.
1 EatATaco 2017-10-03
crickets
1 ed_at_work 2017-10-03
It was insensitive because neckbeards wanted to see photos of children with their skulls split open so they can validate their paranoid delusions.
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
No, I think a single photo of Lanza entering the school or being around it would suffice. Yet we can't even see that. And then we have people like you
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
Apologizes 4chan. You're going to have to get your snuff film elsewhere.
1 tovarish22 2017-10-03
Why would they need to release it, particularly this soon? Why would they ever need to release it to anyone other than those investigating the incident?
1 MissType 2017-10-03
That’s right. Stop asking questions, little people.
1 tovarish22 2017-10-03
So you think you're entitled to any and all privately-held information whenever you have a question?
1 MissType 2017-10-03
Oh hello Top Minds is Reddit person! Of course you’re here to naysay, it’s what you guys do. Daren’t veer away from the official line. Good little useful citizen.
You should try using an alt if you want anyone to take you seriously.
1 tovarish22 2017-10-03
So, no actual argument to support your stance, just personal attacks?
Got it.
1 MissType 2017-10-03
You’re very sensitive to “personal attacks”, considering that’s all TMOR users do. There’s absolutely no point in engaging with you as you’re not here for genuine conversation.
1 tovarish22 2017-10-03
Oh, I'm no "sensitive" to them, I was just pointing out that, rather than address the actual argument, you resorted to personal attacks alone. It sort of puts you in a weak position as far as your argument goes.
And I'm absolutely here for genuine conversation. I've been following /r/conspiracy much longer than I ever knew /r/TMoR ever existed (though admittedly, I did take a break from /r/conspiracy for a bit when it was overrun by white supreamcists/anti-semitism, which seems to have died down).
So, back to the argument you made: if you think that you are entitled to any and all information, even information currently being used in an investigation opened less than 24 hours ago, where do you draw the line? Can I have your tax returns? If not, why is THAT information off the table, but you feel entitled to the video from the hotel?
1 IHateSherrod 2017-10-03
it's how they work - they are entitled to ALL the evidence NOW before the investigation is complete so that they can make up another far fetched story of how the Deep State is controlling us.
1 TheCamelTojo 2017-10-03
Evidence in a police case is public information not private sheep
1 tovarish22 2017-10-03
Hm, I don't believe it is. Do you have a source (case law or something like that) that shows police are allowed to disseminate evidence during an investigation?
1 DentallPlan 2017-10-03
I think they are allowed to but not required to. For instance they can release a photo or video of a suspect if they want the public's help finding him, but I don't think they have an obligation to "prove" anything to the public except at a trial.
1 tovarish22 2017-10-03
That's my understanding as well.
1 Afrobean 2017-10-03
I would also be interested in seeing this.
I don't think it'll ever happen.
1 OB1_kenobi 2017-10-03
I'd want to see footage of the shooting as it was happening. Why?
Because I'd want to listen to the sound of the gunfire itself for things like full auto rate of fire, or any possibility of more than one shooter.
1 lemonhazed 2017-10-03
Just from short clips when the shooting starts there's a definitive sound of at least 2 guns dumping rounds out. He's not dual wielding rifles with that power, AND the picture of his hotel floor shows TWO windows busted out, on opposite sides of the room.
1 74237935 2017-10-03
Nah what you're hearing is the bullet crack and then the gun being fired. Him switching firing positions is just common sense.
1 TheCamelTojo 2017-10-03
No there's not the definitive sound of 2 rifles. Some of us have been in extended I'm firefights in urban areas and understand how acoustics work in that situation. You don't
1 Adm_M 2017-10-03
Man, you haven’t really read shit about this have you? It’s explained and highly believable that the echo of gunfire and actually sound of bullets clapping above concert goers more than makes up for the multiple shooters. Also, why wouldn’t he break two windows for multiple vantage points? If every window was broken out, could really say that there was 10 shooters?
1 CG28 2017-10-03
Definitely two guns. One on a crank and the other firing in 3-shot bursts. Super identifiable.
1 MiamiFTW 2017-10-03
What I don't get, help me out now, is they found 23 weapons correct? Does it not seem like a long gap in between reloading? Wouldn't he just drop a gun and grab another?
1 CG28 2017-10-03
If there were 23 guns I'd think he'd have them all loaded and ready to go, and yes I would think he'd just swap them out as they ran out of ammo to reduce time between shots.
The thing is that I hear two guns overtop of one another. One sounds crank operated, and the other sounds like it's firing in controlled bursts.
1 MiamiFTW 2017-10-03
I could point that on the echo from the bullets, I'm just wondering why it was long in between. The longer this goes on the more I doubt all this.
1 FuckYouLetsFight 2017-10-03
You have no idea how bullet acoustics work.
Also he broke two windows for two vantage points.
Is it really that hard? This sub is full of dipshits
1 lemonhazed 2017-10-03
Fuck you, dipshit. Fight me.
1 Jace_the_mind 2017-10-03
I stay out of this sub typically, but I feel I need to comment on this. Supersonic ammunition will make two sounds independent from one another that becomes more distinct the further you are from the discharge. Meaning, you'll hear the ammo hit BEFORE you hear the discharge because it is traveling faster than sound.
This explains the delay of the sound, and why sounds of slugs impacting the concrete are intermingled with the discharges. It gets very confusing to establish point of origin once you factor supersonic ammunition and acoustics.
1 MissType 2017-10-03
10 mins uninterrupted here
1 WolfgangJones 2017-10-03
The video is 10 minutes long, but don't hear anymore shots after 5m30s. Person filming drives off after that. Also, there were long pauses between the automatic bursts.
1 MaestroLogical 2017-10-03
The shooter was most likely switching to the other window every other time. So once was right above him then pause... Then it was farther away. You can see how one window is around the corner facing the other way slightly Then he would return to the first one and it would be louder.
1 JosephStall 2017-10-03
It sounded like the guns were heavy machine guns too. Those things are huge and literally impossible to buy unless you're dealing with super high level people
1 74237935 2017-10-03
In no way did it sound like a heavy machine gun.
1 JosephStall 2017-10-03
Wtf do you mean? It sounds exactly like an M240. Exactly like it. So to say it sounded in no way like a heavy machine gun is idiotic.
1 74237935 2017-10-03
Sorry to inform you but your hearing is going buddy.
1 JosephStall 2017-10-03
I think you might be right.. It sounds more like an AK-47 doesn't it?
1 OopsAllSpells 2017-10-03
If everyone should know one thing, it's that you don't trust the internet LARPers in determining guns from video.
1 JosephStall 2017-10-03
Lol who in TF uses the word "Larper"? That's probably the dumbest shit I've heard all day. Secondly I saw ex military people saying it sounded like M240 gunfire so I listened to M240 gunfire and I'd say it sounds identical. How about instead of trying to personally insult somebody you tell me why it's not M240 and what gun or guns were used? If I'm wrong which I could be why not tell me why I'm wrong instead of calling me a "Larper"? Which is also just an inaccurate statement.
1 TheCamelTojo 2017-10-03
They weren't heavy machine guns. Even a saw m249 is not a heavy machine gun. These most definitely were not 7.62 rounds either.
It is only 200 bucks and a clear background to get a tax stamp to have a machine gun
You literally don't know what you're talking about
1 JosephStall 2017-10-03
It's up to 65,000 dollars to buy one though. I wasn't talking about a tax stamp. I'm talking about the price of the gun which I'm certain it was clear that's what I was stating. Also it's heavily regulated and difficult to get a fully auto light machine gun. You were right it wouldn't be a heavy machine gun it would be a light machine gun. What guns do you think were used?
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
-From the Mandalay Bay Valet
"He didn't have any crazy bags with him that I can remember. We are a convention hotel so we have a bunch of people that have boxes and multiple carts worth of stuff. There's nothing weird that I can remember," Nishimura said." http://www.kitv.com/story/36505487/hawaii-native-parked-shooters-car
1 SovietJugernaut 2017-10-03
And do you really expect all valets to have a detailed recollection of all the people and suitcases they deal with on a daily basis? If you've worked any sort of retail job with lots of customers, you'd know that you pretty much forget someone 7 seconds after they walk away unless they draw some sort of special attention to themselves.
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
IDK, if that person then shot 550 people I'd probably rack my brain trying to remember that interaction.
1 SovietJugernaut 2017-10-03
Absolutely, but that won't make your recollection any more accurate. You can't remember what you didn't even pay attention to in the first place, although you can certainly convince yourself that you did remember.
There are a great many studies about eyewitness testimony in particular, but more generally about memory recollection and the role attention plays in perception.
The fact that he's trying to filter his recollection through information he found out later makes it less reliable, not more.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
You can also convince yourself that you remembered extra details when in fact you pulled them out of thin air, or were suggested them by your questioner.
1 SovietJugernaut 2017-10-03
The details themselves don't even need to be suggested--even the wording of the questions they use can influence your recollection.
The classic psychology study for this was in 1974 by Loftus and Palmer.
In the second iteration of the experiment, different groups were shown a video of a car accident and asked to estimate the speed of the vehicles and what they saw afterwards. By changing one word, in asking "what happened when the cars smashed each other" vs "what happened when the cars hit each other", people estimated the cars were going much faster, and even described seeing things that hadn't happened, like seeing broken glass on the ground.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Suggested, teased, extracted, provoked etc
1 TylerRice0515 2017-10-03
He didn't shoot 550 people.
1 SickSalamander 2017-10-03
Has anybody seen a breakdown of how many were shot vs injured in the panic?
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
*hundreds of people.
1 Oroschwanz 2017-10-03
I don't think you get how many fucking people flow from in and out of that hotel lol there is no way you could remember every interaction with that guy unless he was wearing a fucking Captain Crunch hat every day LOL
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
Personally, I'm confident I'd remember him. But that's because I have a special brain that's tuned in to the pulse of humanity.
1 Oroschwanz 2017-10-03
Uh huh, keep living the dream
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Eidetic memory does exist, but if it's anything like synesthesia or fucking celiac disease, every special snowflake will be claiming to have it.
1 wolf_and_blade 2017-10-03
/r/imverysmart
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
No smart in the traditional sense, just highly tuned in.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
https://www.reddit.com/r/copypasta/comments/73wb2u/i_have_a_elite_and_advanced_brain_structure_that/
1 AutoModerator 2017-10-03
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1 BlackhawkBolly 2017-10-03
Eye witness stuff is proven to be extremely unreliable
1 FourFeathers88 2017-10-03
i posted a comment about shots echoing and thundering off of walls as it travels giving false impression of where shots are being fired from. Your average person doesn't have the experience or training to pin point fire location. So people calling in on their cell phones could be misleading the police.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
So to aid with confusion and enhance the panic, if there were multiple accomplices all firing blanks in other casinos...
1 musselshirt67 2017-10-03
Can you show me anywhere saying 550 people were actually shot? Cause I never heard that.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
50+ dead, 500 injured?
1 musselshirt67 2017-10-03
Injured. Not shot
1 followmyleaddoe 2017-10-03
I would if it was three long, heavy bags
1 Green_Lives_Matter 2017-10-03
I used to be a hotel bellman. I've checked in women who had suitcases so heavy I almost had an embolism dragging it in.
One of them was Andie Macdowell.
1 Muscidae 2017-10-03
I had a massive crush on her
1 Green_Lives_Matter 2017-10-03
She was in her early 50's at the time and I would 100% have done the sex.
1 KDLANGSTONHUGHES 2017-10-03
I'd do sex all over that honey
1 Appallingstench 2017-10-03
You’re saying she could have been a lone wolf who backed out at the last minute?
1 orwellson 2017-10-03
One of the suitcases was ANDIE MACDOWELL?!
1 janiesgotagun222 2017-10-03
I think you mean a hernia. An embolism is a blood clot that causes blockage in an artery
1 lyricyst2000 2017-10-03
Somehow I doubt he had the Valet move his gun bags to his room.
Moving a bag an hour over the course of a day wouldnt cause anyone to bat an eyelash, Vegas hotels are FULL of people wheeling luggage in and out.
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
Welp, the self park garage would be monitored so I look forward to seeing that.
1 FourFeathers88 2017-10-03
I bet you all video footage is being evaluated to see where or which segments can be scrubbed or sliced.
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
Amazing they just had a press conf. No one asks about footage or a car.
1 ItsAboutSharing 2017-10-03
Good point. We better see some video though. This video convinced me of there being (at least) 2 shooters. Extremely well done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2oQ65zi-Q&feature=youtu.be
1 FourFeathers88 2017-10-03
Don't believe that stuff....People make videos on Youtube to get views. I wasn't there but i have shot an light machine gun while serving, and the thunder and clapping of the rounds bouncing off of walls and streets could have given a false pretense there were multiple shooters. One video i saw on YouTube claims the the police scanner audio calls for a shooter about a 3rd of the way up and half way up. He even points out flashes from the building. What you don't see anywhere are broken windows like from the 32nd floor. So until they share actual evidence of a 2nd shooter I'm not convinced.
1 Splinterman11 2017-10-03
That video only shows the point of view from the concert area. It sounds like that because of the echo and ricochet of bullets landing around you.
Here is a video someone took directly under the shooter at ground level, its pretty clear there is only one gun being fired with a bump stock. https://mobile.twitter.com/abbytheodros/status/914735456943607808/video/1
1 ItsAboutSharing 2017-10-03
Here is the sound part 15:55 in - two shooters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2oQ65zi-Q&feature=youtu.be&t=956
1 Splinterman11 2017-10-03
I know what part you're talking about, and I just showed you a video that proves there was only one gun. He is shooting in a sweeping motion towards the camera at some distance. The part where you think you hear a second gun is just ricochet and the bullets breaking the sound barrier.
1 ItsAboutSharing 2017-10-03
If there was a camera right below the shooter, how well would that pick up other shooters? You can't discount other evidence because yours fits your agenda.
If there were ricocheting bullets sounds, then there would be some consistency (I would think). We need to look deeper here, as we know our government has consistently lied to us.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Yeah... could have had them in the storage area on the first floor, then called them up one at a time with different bellboys throughout the day. Snowboards, golf clubs, guitars, plenty of cases are big enough to fit guns and not look like guns.
1 Caliwolfie 2017-10-03
He was there for three days I believe
1 AverageJoeAudiophile 2017-10-03
Because those guns break down into a backpack with basic hand tools.
1 StickyDaydreams 2017-10-03
Why are they relying on eyewitnesses and human memory? There's footage from a hundred angles of him entering the building.
1 g3tr3ckless 2017-10-03
I’m a firm believer that this was an inside job. So many people claiming that “10ft” walls barricaded them inside the concert area. Some dumbass putting a spot light right into the middle of the crowd? Making them an even easier target? My mind is all over the place about this.
1 TheCamelTojo 2017-10-03
A spotlight wouldn't have made any difference there. The strip is bright af and it was a sea of people easily seen from 300m
1 g3tr3ckless 2017-10-03
Yeah true. Just seems sketchy.
1 trilliam_clinton 2017-10-03
10ft walls didn't barricade them in the concert area. It prevented the people who didn't pay $210 a ticket from getting INTO the concert area.
Like....have you never been to a ticketed event in an outdoor area? Huge chain link temporary walls is pretty damn common.
1 g3tr3ckless 2017-10-03
No sir, I’ve never been to a huge concert event before. My apologies for not knowing the protocol to keep people from moving in. I’m just saying, most people that paid to attend knew where the exits were FOR THE MOST PART and the majority are saying that there was no way out. All I’m saying.
1 Wizrar 2017-10-03
I had family and friends at the concert, there was definitely a way out.
1 Balrogz14 2017-10-03
All concerts have a way out. They’re generally exactly the way you entered. The issue is getting through the crowd back to them.
1 yesipooptoo 2017-10-03
There was a way out, but it was meant to empty the venue in twenty minutes at the end of the concert, not RIGHT FUCKING NOW like people who are being shot at want.
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
Its the people in front of and behind you that cause the issue with exiting.
See: The Station night club fire video.
1 g3tr3ckless 2017-10-03
Right! I didn’t even think of that. I really appreciate all you guys helping clarify a few things in my thoughts. I guess I’m just still shocked about all of this and I’m trying to build conclusions of my own.
1 ed_at_work 2017-10-03
You think these people actually leave their houses?
1 brinelull 2017-10-03
you're trying to talk sense into people in /r/conspiracy dude
like, lol, what
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
ten foot walls also dont prevent someone 32 floors up from firing over them.
hell, a chain link fence wont prevent someone from firing thru it.
1 wengchunkn 2017-10-03
Wtf!!
Lol!!
1 incrediblegamez 2017-10-03
So the police can do drug raids that included shootouts and deaths of the alledged criminals and then later pose with the cache of weapons, drugs and $$ yet we still have NO details on the alleged guns pulled from this room. Something is fishy.
1 gertywomp 2017-10-03
Pretty sure FBI would be running this investigation, not local cops.
1 48packet 2017-10-03
The FBI takes pictures with drug busts too.
1 Schotel 2017-10-03
What are you talking about?
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-paddock-had-19-rifles-in-room-1506985512-htmlstory.html
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
I didn't see any pictures of cops posing with weapons. Did you mean to post a different link?
1 PantsMcGillicuddy 2017-10-03
Sounds like that's more the end result of an investigation rather than the starting hours of one though too. Not really the same situation
1 Weedwacker3 2017-10-03
He had four Daniel Defense DDM4's and three Sig Sauer FN-14's, an AK-47, a colt M4.
1 jzerocoolj 2017-10-03
Turns out the FN-14 is made by.... FN.
xfilestheme.midi
1 Weedwacker3 2017-10-03
You're right. Looks like the article actually said "three FN-14s and some by sig sauer"
1 godplaysdice_ 2017-10-03
"How do criminal investigations work?" - /r/conspiracy
1 winksup 2017-10-03
They work by posting every single shred of evidence online so internet detectives can get to work and bring proper justice, just like during the Boston bombings and going to day cares believed to be associated with pizzagate with guns!
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
dont look into any threads on muellers investigation, they wonder why they arent releasing everything they get as they get it and conclude that they have nothing and its going nowhere
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
And how often is such footage released within twentyfour hours of the incident?
1 Schotel 2017-10-03
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4944234/Two-23-rifles-inside-Stephen-Paddock-s-room.html
1 kidxer 2017-10-03
https://youtu.be/MMzd40i8TfA
1 Gr33n_Thumb 2017-10-03
Have you ever been in a Vegas hotel lobby? It's usually extremely busy. This dude could have gone to his car and back a few times over the course of three days and brought up the weapons very easily without anyone batting an eye.
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
Then they can show us footage of that
1 white_s2k 2017-10-03
Exactly. A lot of people in this thread saying "well he could have made 15 trips, you're just going to see him carrying a bunch of bags like the other 100 guests in the lobby." Okay? Great, show us that footage.
1 Jaguars-gators 2017-10-03
That might take a little time don't you think?
1 dlandis13 2017-10-03
I used to be on your side. But then every time this happens you end up dissapointed. I'll come back and retract this statement if they show us video of him bringing each bag in.
1 uncut-robot 2017-10-03
It is never enough for you though. They could show him bringing three bags in and you'd scoff and say it should have at least taken five bags...You'd just pull something else out of your ass without caring about any facts.
1 dlandis13 2017-10-03
ok if i see three bags... or any video of the actual guy I'll be good with that. You don't know me.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
More than likely it would just be a few suitcases which he could load up on one of those luggage dollies.
Regardless, they should be able to find him. However, police may not allow them to release the tapes. They may have already been confiscated.
1 TruthandPeace 2017-10-03
its an active investigation, why would they show you the footage.
1 nizreg 2017-10-03
why do you need to see footage of that?
like ok, i get you believe this is all faked.
couldn't they also fake lobby footage?
1 Zzarx 2017-10-03
What is the crazy thing about it? What's the reason you don't think that is a possibility?
Regarding the footage not being released, who knows, an investigation is or must be going on, maybe after it is done they may release it, or they are hiding it for a reason. We'll have to wait.
1 godplaysdice_ 2017-10-03
It's barely been 24 hours and there's an ongoing criminal investigation. Why don't you guys wait a few days before flinging shit at the wall?
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
That's bullshit, they can release security cam footage. They do it all the time when robberies happen. Releasing the footage would only help prove their story. But they cant because the story is bullshit
1 godplaysdice_ 2017-10-03
Yeah, they release it for robberies when they need help identifying and catching a suspect. Not the same situation at all here.
1 MuchoMaas49 2017-10-03
Yeah, I mean look how it worked out for the moon landing. Everyone was instantly convinced and any confusion was instantly put to rest.
1 MuscaApis 2017-10-03
Why do that when they can make up ridiculous false flag loony conspiracies?
1 godplaysdice_ 2017-10-03
And shitpost about Hillary Clinton and Soros and the joos
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
im not sure we cant rule out the jews in the (((Stephen paddock))) situation
1 rastacola 2017-10-03
/r/conspiracy ...if there isn't one yet, they'll make one.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
The TMoR need to act fast! That first 48 is crucial to solving the meme.
1 isjoshlive 2017-10-03
You're kidding right? We already have 46838 stories as to how he could have done this, light suggesting on motivee, background check stories on family members... Don't piss on my leg.... Release the camera footage that shows him in the place they claim he was. It's proof.
1 godplaysdice_ 2017-10-03
Who are you, and why do the police and Mandalay Bay owe you security cam footage the moment they have it in their possession?
1 isjoshlive 2017-10-03
It's not me personally the owe it to. It's the public.... I'm blown away with this sub as of late.
1 godplaysdice_ 2017-10-03
Then I'm sure it will be released once the investigation is finished if it is indeed in the public interest. OMG 36 hours later and they haven't finished their investigation into the largest mass shooting in US history yet??! What a conspiracy!!
1 IknowyouknowImright 2017-10-03
Who are we - Tax payers..... the ones who pay their paychecks.
1 mrjohnnyp 2017-10-03
Been waiting for nearly 16 years for that Pentagon footage too…
1 Mazyc 2017-10-03
Well the prompted an interesting picture. Guy flings shit on wall, oh wait what's this here, the shit looks like a gun, no wait a guy with a gun. Takes a big whiff of the shit on the wall, it smells like shit, this must mean something, hmmmm but what.... Governments in on this one for sure.
1 AverageJoeAudiophile 2017-10-03
Even basic universal logic doesn't work on these people.
1 TheBeardedGod 2017-10-03
It’s been more ham a few days now......waiting...
1 lIIIIIIIIIIIIIl 2017-10-03
Which would prove or disprove what?
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
that he was actually in the hotel...
1 TXhorn4life 2017-10-03
Agreed. Can't imagine getting the guns in was much of a problem.
1 RikaMX 2017-10-03
Would love to see some footage of him in the hotel.
1 theawesomethatis 2017-10-03
That would be pointless.
"And here's a man carrying a suitcase."
1 Wubzwubz 2017-10-03
It would prove he was the shooter
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
It would prove he was at the hotel, I don't even believe this guy was at the hotel.
1 aboxoffrogs 2017-10-03
Is it just me, or does anyone find it strange that the ONLY popular photo being circulated through MSM is of Patterson with his eyes closed. I mean they interviewed his brother. His brother seems to be knowledgeable of the other brother...so why not ask him if he's got a pic. 68, no MO, worked at Military Industrial Complex as accountant/auditor. "Not even a parking ticket..." sayeth the bro.
1 datank56 2017-10-03
Speaking of that picture, the original picture is of him taking a shot.
https://imgur.com/a/dv1T0
1 811HEFE 2017-10-03
Interesting. Mr Wynne states his hotels profiling of this couple determined they never drink. Ever.
1 whatthecaptcha 2017-10-03
Can we stop circulating that fox news fact about him working for Lockheed Martin in the fucking 80s?
Pretty sure it's not relevant.
1 ShallowendPirate 2017-10-03
Well, you are in r/conspiracy. Also, Lockheed isn't exactly the most trustworthy company, employing the likes of John Ramsey and his Father in Law. Also, they're involved in multiple government contracts, and we all know the fine print in those contracts (most of the time) is fairly suspicious.
I'm not you g to jump to conclusions...yet. I will say it makes for an interesting take on the whole situation, but it's nothing concrete. Just take that information and keep it tucked away until it's relevant. If it is, it will be brought back up.
Sorry in advance for mistakes and such, on mobile.
1 Balrogz14 2017-10-03
My friend works for Lockheed and he’s sure as fuck not fit enough to be a super soldier. This 60 year old dude isn’t some top FBI recruit man. Auditors are a huge deal, especially in pibically owned companies.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
Well that would actually explain why he fired into a crowd of at least 5 to 10 thousand people, with no where to run, and only hit 600.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
He didn't hit 600. A lot of people were injured in the escape by trampling
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
lol my friend who worked at Lockheed is just another worthless stoner (and aren't we all) who just sat and watched YouTube in between making his required rounds.
You do need to have some sort of clearance background though for much of that work. In my friend's case it was 4 years in the chair force weather division.
1 8BitFlash 2017-10-03
They wont release it because he was never even at the hotel.
1 Vaedur 2017-10-03
With the amount of conventions in LV, it's pretty easy to get in whatever you want i assume. Noone is looking through your luggage. You could say "baseball card convention" and have them carry your guns up. people are so docile now too..
1 bakrman 2017-10-03
I work in media and sometimes have checked in with 20 some cases and heavy ones at that and no one ever batts an eye.
1 Beaver7530 2017-10-03
they won't release these tapes because the real criminals behind this have already confiscated the tapes probably on the basis of national security. As for Stephen, the man is a patsy. I'm surprised more people didn't die, the way the crowd just sat there.
1 winksup 2017-10-03
You don't want to wait maybe more than one day before freaking out about not being shown every piece of evidence?
1 bobthetitanic 2017-10-03
Freaking out, really you got that from his comment?
1 eideteker 2017-10-03
Is /r/conspiracy seriously advocating for 24/7 video surveillance now?
What has t_d done to you people?
1 patience-yago 2017-10-03
But we all know the hotels do this. OP isnt asking for more. Just the video they already own. Why not share it?
1 eideteker 2017-10-03
Where's the usual CT skepticism? Wouldn't the hotel be "in on it", and if they released a video it would show nothing out of the ordinary, just a guy slightly/closely matching the MSM's description of the guy they say did it, who then conveniently committed suicide?
1 patience-yago 2017-10-03
If it shows nothing but him carrying in bags 5 times. Then that all we see. I am not asking for a smoking gun. But they have high res video and everyone knows it. So we just wanna see it. Its like a dashcam only way better megapixels and not shaky.
1 eideteker 2017-10-03
Let's say they release it, and it shows you exactly what you expected to see... doesn't that raise a couple red flags in and of itself?
1 patience-yago 2017-10-03
I dont even know what to believe. I feel this guy was in the room as a patron and someone took his room and then killed him is most likely.
1 DrBadTouch22 2017-10-03
You bring up a good point. I wonder if the hotel is under water financially. Because this is horrible press and they are probably gonna be sued into oblivion.
1 48packet 2017-10-03
Haha, so ironic. But seriously, I don't think this thread is advocating surveillance, it is asking why the msm hasn't released cam footage like they usually would.
I mean I do not agree with the Patriot act, but I still ask why terrorists are able to blow up pipe bombs in Manhattan. Isn't the NSA or DHS supposed to catch this stuff?
1 eideteker 2017-10-03
So the going idea that the NSA/DHS/alphabet agencies are monitoring all communications traffic isn't true, or they can't possibly filter out all terror comms from every platform - which makes sense, if you take half a second to think about how many communications platforms actually exist.
1 48packet 2017-10-03
They would if they could..
1 DrBadTouch22 2017-10-03
Sounds pretty straw manish. No one is advocating 24/7 surveillance. It’s already here. It’s time for them to show us what the mass surveillance is all for.
1 eideteker 2017-10-03
It's already here, so let's be cool with it...but my argument is the strawman. Damn.
1 DrBadTouch22 2017-10-03
Christtttt haha I never said I’m cool with it man. I guess my comment didn’t state I’m 100% against it (which I am) I’m just saying it’s already there. They claim we need it. It’s not insane for people to want it to be used now. Someone probably has video of me jerking it that I have no idea about. We’re under surveillance 24/7. There should be footage of this guy.
1 hinglemcdingleberry 2017-10-03
Good call. Every inch of casinos is covered by cameras
1 Bucky1965 2017-10-03
So maybe the deep state is giving these shooters some kind of medication that makes them go super violent. So that Congress feels justified in passing anti 2nd amendment legislation.
1 Ailurion 2017-10-03
That would be a start. Hell with how many guns they're claiming he supposedly had, there should be a good amount of footage of him back and forth whether it was over several weeks/days etc. Hopefully we'll see it, but I'm not holding my breath. Fully expecting it to be grainy and low light if they do release it since this is 1990 and not 2017.
1 Dimone_Freehold 2017-10-03
At first I thought Paddock was a Leftist/Communist Terrorist, but apparently he had ammonia nitrate in his car. Now I'm kind of thinking this was another set up like Oklahoma City.
1 master_explode_her 2017-10-03
Am i the only one that sees the real problem with this narrative? He didnt need 17 rifles to do this. Hell he didnt even need 5 rifles to do this. An AR with a slide fire and several drums would have fit the bill. If he was worried about the barrel getting too hot, then sure bring an extra rifle. But 17?!? Bullshit. The guy wasnt stupid by any means. Why would you risk bringing in that much hardware when two at most wouldve done it. Am I supposed to believe he was going to tape them together like ridley on aliens and go to the gambling floor hipfiring all the bluehairs sitting at the slots? Gimme a break. The guy wasnt the father from boondock saints.
1 Zukb6 2017-10-03
I hate to say it but that could've been exactly the plan. The smoke from the guns and the smoke detector giving away his location would be the thing he didn't count on. There was also explosive material found in his car, so I think it's obvious there was some further plan after leaving Mandalay Bay, it just never got that far.
1 Pancakes1 2017-10-03
Also, the hotel is alarmed when someone breaks the window.
1 Zukb6 2017-10-03
Are they though? I've heard this before, but I know not all Vegas hotels are created equal. Mandalay Bay may seem fancy, but in terms of Strip hotels it's probably considered 2nd or 3rd tier at this point.
1 iamthedrag 2017-10-03
I wouldn't be surprised if maybe a silent alarm that could notify staff at most, but yeah I think you're prbly right.
1 master_explode_her 2017-10-03
Again, i doubt he was that careless if he planned it out logically. I find it hard to believe he was planning on going mobile at any point. The average number of firearms used or brought by mass shooters is roughly around four. Granted, there have been more shooters that conducted their assault on foot with smaller firearms as opposed to a static position such as this. A static position makes more sense to have a larger cache as fatigue isnt as much a factor as in a mobile attack. But 23 is much higher than the norm. The room screams last stand yet there was ammonium nitrate and other guns and ammo in the car. That explosive alone wouldve accomplished an incredibly higher loss of life if driven into the crowd and detonated. Its easy to see two very different planned methods of attack which doesnt fit.
1 Zukb6 2017-10-03
I could see him planning everything out methodically and then overlooking one small detail. It goes along with him not having much/any military experience.
The thing that really sticks out to me is him having video surveillance in the hallway only to shoot himself prior to SWAT breaching the room. In theory anyone could have used that video surveillance to warn them of oncoming police presence and then exit the room leaving Paddock's body behind with 'self inflicted' gunshot wound to the head. I think these scenarios are the ones police/fbi should be investigating.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
wait what? he had surveillance in the hall?
1 Zukb6 2017-10-03
My mistake. I thought I heard he had surveillance in the hallway but I don't see any reference to that now. Must have been some of the misinformation floating around following all the confusion.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
that would be some crazy prep. kinda surprised he didnt have barricades and booby traps
1 Zukb6 2017-10-03
Ah here it is- http://nypost.com/2017/10/03/las-vegas-gunman-filmed-himself-during-slaughter/
1 boomdeay 2017-10-03
I think he thought he could get out. He had two adjoining rooms. Maybe thought he could get out of the second room while they were evacuating people.
Imagine if the dummy couldn't find his key to the second room and foiled his own plan.
Adjoining rooms at end of article
1 rootlesswriter 2017-10-03
Maybe it was one guy with 6 guns? 17 now go look for the finger
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
yeah maybe he should have saved some guns for later!
why not bring them all? he knew it was a last stand
1 postslongcomments 2017-10-03
Replying to your chain of comments in general.
Let's assume the "lone wolf" crap is true. Let's assume it's a rampage shooting [which yes, is a big assumption to make] and not politically/religiously motivated. The problem is you're looking for a needle of rationality in a haystack of irrationality. Sociopaths are often intelligent, but also do a lot of shit that doesn't make sense. So yes, just because he was effective at achieving his goal doesn't mean he had it planned out all that well.
I'd argue that he went ahead with the "plan" well before it was ready. He obviously was going the explosives route, but for whatever reason abandoned it (praise jesus). Maybe he got spooked and was paranoid his purchases would raise suspicions. Maybe he wanted to do it while the Filino was out of the country. Maybe he just ran out of time. Who knows. Maybe the explosives were going to be a diversion (ie he calls in a bomb threat which prevents police from storming the building). Maybe there was originally a "getaway" in the making and he thought he could confuse the cops on how many shooters there were if he had multiple guns. Or hell, maybe he had 4 weapon configurations he liked for various purposes. IE 4 with bipods+scopes, 4 with bump mods, 4 with close quarters sights etc.,
All his actual "planning was" was to buy a shitload of guns and get a good vantage point. Everything else was thankfully a complete failure.
1 Schotel 2017-10-03
If it exists, it's evidence. Why do you expect evidence from an ongoing investigation to be released?
1 likes-to-use-italics 2017-10-03
People probably think because he's dead there is no investigation.
1 ShitHitsTheMan 2017-10-03
This video needs to be released ASAP! There is now a backlog of videos the public deserves to see:
*9/11 Pentagon footage
*Adam Lanza walking into SH
*James Holmes entering the theater in Aurora
1 Thompson_S_Sweetback 2017-10-03
People think James Holmes didn't do it?
1 SandS5000 2017-10-03
Yea, he was unresponsive in his car when they arrested him and there was a (I believe debunked) theory his dad exposed a large banking conspiracy.
1 ehtseeoh 2017-10-03
I agree this guy just made the most wild statement, it was for sure him during that shooting
1 astrogirl 2017-10-03
He was alive, stood trial and got 12 consecutive life sentences + 3,318 years.
Only reason I know anything about the Holmes trial was that my step-mom's grandson was shot while using his body to cover a woman and child. He has lingering neuropathy, but is still going about his life.
1 cerebral_scrubber 2017-10-03
Don’t forget the video of McVeigh getting out of that Ryder truck in Oklahoma City
1 HomeWithTheArmadillo 2017-10-03
McVeigh and Jonathan Doe II.
1 dunnowins 2017-10-03
Don't forget the pee tape.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
The pentagon one I could maybe understand you don't release but ok. The rest would be of historical value.
1 Misinglink15 2017-10-03
So as a disclaimer we can agree that video footage can be doctored/altered/created on the internet and be totally fake. On that note its possible I could have seen a video of what hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Some non-mainstream youtuber I came across during the last election began to act a little strange at one point during a brief period of time; sounding a little worried and hesistant. He usually commented on WikiLeaks and Podesta stuff etc. Then all of a sudden for about a week or so...no new content. Then one day...a video is posted...its about 6-8 seconds long...of a missle hitting the Pentagon. Then another short period of no new content. He's back doing podcasts now with callers and he seems back to his normal self talking about WikiLeaks and other stuff.
1 Roothanati 2017-10-03
What the fuck happened to the wife they were looking for? Marilou Daley was it? I really wanna hear what she says unless shes already shot her self in the back 20 times already.
1 ShiguruiX 2017-10-03
They found her like 24 hours ago and she was his roommate not his wife. They said she wasn't involved. Keep up my man.
1 Roothanati 2017-10-03
Not on reddit as much as I want to anymore due to work but howd they determine she was innocent so soon?
1 camefrom_All 2017-10-03
She wasn't even in the country and is/was visiting family in the Philippines. Could she have knowledge he was going to do this? Possibly, but she has no physical link due to the distance. I am wondering if the guy was unstable mentally and the absence of the lady friend broke whatever was keeping him normal.
1 ShallowendPirate 2017-10-03
At the retirement facility or at one of his houses. I didn't know she was his roommate.
1 rastacola 2017-10-03
Hey my man, they just found out he wired 100k to the Philippines last week.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
She was a roommate and was out of the country on a trip while this occurred.
1 Roothanati 2017-10-03
Thanks for the info, Ill leave it at that and leave you be judging by your username lol
1 intoxxicatedd 2017-10-03
You think it’s just a coincidence she happens to be out of the country? What about the money that was wired?
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
I'm not sure. Just stating a fact. Take it how you want to.
1 booneyPGH87 2017-10-03
For real, how is that getting so overlooked right now?
1 yellow6r 2017-10-03
We need to find out what kind of guns first. I have quite a few guns myself. Guns can be taken down and then they can be concealed in bags/garment bags. The largest piece obviously being the barrel.
1 seeking101 2017-10-03
seems strange that the guy who shot the politician disappeared for a while prior, the guy that ran through people with his car disappeared for a while prior, and this guy disappeared for a while prior.
1 beautifulabyss 2017-10-03
Would you mind linking me to wherever you found this info? I'd like to look into it more.
1 seeking101 2017-10-03
its all from memory, i never saved any links or anything. i just recall it from past discussion here
1 beautifulabyss 2017-10-03
Oh okay, well if you run across it at some point in the future, would you mind posting it here? I tried searching for it but couldn't find anything.
1 seeking101 2017-10-03
will do
1 azsqueeze 2017-10-03
The guy who shot the politicians was shot at the scene and died at the hospital. The guy who ran through the people in a car drove away and was apprehended soon after. This guy was found dead in the hotel room where he was attacking others. What are you talking about?
1 GETMONEYGETPAlD 2017-10-03
Lol, what are YOU talking about?
Prior: existing or coming before in time, order, or importance.
1 diachi_revived 2017-10-03
I don't think you understand what that word means...
1 azsqueeze 2017-10-03
I do, but there is no context. Prior to being apprehended? Prior to the incident? Prior to being born? Prior to the universe forming? My response is clearly about the time between the incident and being apprehended. Who knows what OP is talking about.
1 diachi_revived 2017-10-03
Quite obviously prior to the incident...
1 outbackdude 2017-10-03
source?
1 seeking101 2017-10-03
his neighbor
1 justinxduff 2017-10-03
lol you people honestly think this is another shooting conspiracy? GTFO.
1 HOOCHYCOOCHYMAN76 2017-10-03
But they won't since 2 agents carrying 4 bags did this.
1 kurwacotyrobisz 2017-10-03
Well obviously it was premeditated. Dude had been there since Thursday. Plus he had to buy all the guns, modify them and get the ammo. It's not like he done money playing blackjack and went crazy.
1 kodekkk 2017-10-03
First, anyone firing into a crowd of country music fans is doing so because they are patriotic white Americans. It is the whitest, most Republican event you can possibly attack. Country music is one of the last remaining cultural symbols of American patriotism, however flawed it may be. You must count that.
Shootings happened right on Yom Kippur. An event in Judaism, when escape goats are killed as a sacrifice to Azazel - Demon of the Desert (Las Vegas). This is ancient Jewish tradition. This is center of their Cult.
More coincidence - this happened right in front of of Luxor Pyramid Hotel (NOT Mandalay Bay Hotel, like News says). Look at this photos:
https://i.imgur.com/BeLT8tw.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/gC5e3I9.jpg
Why are they doing this, how do you think?
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
A sacrifice at the base of the pyramid. That's an interesting angle
1 kodekkk 2017-10-03
On Yom Kippur. In Las Vegas (desert). That's the key. Sacrifice to the Demon of the Desert. Google - Azazel.
1 MuscaApis 2017-10-03
IT WAS THE JEWS WHAT DONE IT!!1
1 kodekkk 2017-10-03
Exactly.
1 pistol_annie 2017-10-03
Now this makes sense.
1 kodekkk 2017-10-03
More - scapegoat are symbol of Sins, that is killed on a Azazel mountain (Luxor Pyramid Hotel) in the Desert (Nevada). And this happened in City of Sin...Build...by a Jewish gangsters!
1 movdev 2017-10-03
and dont forget the blood drive/donations afterwards. more blood sacrificing
1 kodekkk 2017-10-03
You think this is funny, Jew?
1 movdev 2017-10-03
geez relax there mr kkk
1 CelineHagbard 2017-10-03
Removed. Rule 4. 1st warning.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
It didn't happen in front of the Luxor. The front of the Luxor doesn't have a venue. Mandalay and Luxor are close to each other. It was on Mandalay grounds and because the Luxor is big it looks like they were at the base. They weren't.
1 kodekkk 2017-10-03
Lie. Festival was on a parking lot lot in front of Luxor. Look at the photos, Jew.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
Lol Jew? Nah. I will go look tho. Was it across the street perhaps? There isn't room for a venue in front of the Luxor itself.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
You are correct. The venue is across the street in front of Luxor and Mandalay.
1 Antiquecollector 2017-10-03
Bringing the guns in would not have been difficult at all.
1 slayerment 2017-10-03
Michael Savage interviewed the neighbor of the shooter: https://youtu.be/EZeiunoX7bY
1 lobbylobbylobby 2017-10-03
Very interesting interview and good points about the muzzle flash.
1 Hendrixsrv3527 2017-10-03
I saw video that clearly shows a flash coming from the windows
1 stalematedizzy 2017-10-03
Link?
1 Hendrixsrv3527 2017-10-03
Saw it in Twitter yesterday
1 UselessScrew 2017-10-03
https://youtu.be/N6lFis9hzyo?t=5689
1 UselessScrew 2017-10-03
Which windows? I have yet to see any vid with flash from that floor. The 4th floor / strobe theory, sure, but not from his room.
1 Hendrixsrv3527 2017-10-03
I can't find it, but it was a gif that showed the hotel, there was a big sign on the right side, and next to it you could see the flashing coming from the upper floor of the hotel. Let me keep trying to find it.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
Savage took the interview down from his website not long ago.
1 UselessScrew 2017-10-03
Just moved it. Here you go - https://youtu.be/N6lFis9hzyo?t=5689
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-03
No, I'm telling you the interview is no longer on his website. Someone else uploaded the audio to YouTube. That's not Savage's YouTube page
1 jubway 2017-10-03
If they released the tapes, you would demand footage of him opening the bags and pulling out the guns. So tell me, what would be the point of them releasing the footage to appease some random internet poster? You've already decided it was a false flag, and your paranoia has already driven you to fantasize about some shadowy organization staging the shooting for some shadowy agenda that is targeting you for some shadowy purpose.
If you're not going to believe it, then don't believe it.
1 saintcmb 2017-10-03
You will not see it. From a security standpoint, you don't want to advertise a huge gaping hole that cant really be fixed. People wont want to stay in hotels if their luggage is going to be searched.
1 BushidoBrowne 2017-10-03
Why?
So t hey can show you the video and then you say its CGI?
1 TorontoCO 2017-10-03
"Hey look now that we have an NHL team there's a guy with a hockey stick bag, interesting". http://www.thehockeyshop.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/small_image/295x295/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/c/c/ccmteamstickbag_dealer.jpg
1 NewAmericanWay 2017-10-03
Did Metro witness the self inflicted gunshot, or did they find a guy dead in the room after the fact?
And yes, surveillance tapes would be nice.
1 Sumner67 2017-10-03
they found him dead after they breached the door.
1 uberduger 2017-10-03
Normally I'm the first one to say 'what the hell has [X] got to hide by not showing this footage?!', but in this case I actually think there's a fair argument for them not to show the footage.
Most Vegas hotels are basically kept afloat by their prestige. It would do almost nothing for them by showing this video, and would potentially harmful their future business, footage of a terrorist / madman carting stuff past their unwitting security.
Again, I'm all for this footage being released, but they will never, ever do so unless compelled to do so.
1 ProfWhite 2017-10-03
That, and they may not want to inadvertently reveal wholes in their camera setup to people out to cheat the tables. There's a number of reasons not to release the footage actually.
The biggest thing for me though, is it's a private business. If this were a public camera, like a traffic camera for example, I'd be more willing to push for the release of the footage, since we don't have a reasonable expectation of privacy in public and because we've paid for those cameras via taxation. The casino's cameras are theirs, they paid for them. I wouldn't want a huge spectacle over people I don't know demanding me release to the public footage from the CCTV security setup I installed in my own home, so it would be hypocritical of me to demand the casino release theirs.
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
It won't happen because there prob isn't any. By that I'm not meaning he isn't on their cameras. He is just never on their cameras with anything that might even slightly resemble a rifle which would then shit on the narrative being pushed by the MSM. They are people too who fuck up, BUT they know how to cover their tracks
1 jimbobtoad 2017-10-03
I'm pretty sure they are gonna be in suit cases. Those guns can easily disassembled and put into a suit case.
1 WeaponsGradeTroll 2017-10-03
The latest effects of Liberalism the brain eating virus on are full display regarding people's response to the tragedy in Las Vegas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNdq2fN-mWw
1 stalematedizzy 2017-10-03
Not really contributing to the discussion at all.
That goes for everyone involved in your post.
1 pizzaboy670 2017-10-03
ummm why would the CIA/FBI/illuminati use a random joe schmoe as their fall man when they could have chosen someone less likely to raise suspicion (random muslim, army vet, etc.)
1 stalematedizzy 2017-10-03
Maybe they picked the wrong room?
Nothing makes any sense about him beeing the shooter.
Where is the motive?
1 pizzaboy670 2017-10-03
Nothing makes any sense about the FBI using him as the shooter, where is the motive to use that guy?
1 pizzaboy670 2017-10-03
The difference is, it would make somewhat sense that one person goes crazy and we don't undertand why or the motive. It would not make sense for the CIA to have a whole super secret plan carefully executed where they pick a guy who makes an awful fallman
1 stalematedizzy 2017-10-03
Because of the current geopolitical climate I'm open to many ideas
Even to a well of white man going crazy and shooting a whole lot of people who he, as far as we know, had no reason to hate.
Makes about as much sense as anything these days.
People are not perfect, not on any side of this equation.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
find another way to fit your false flag narrative! you cant give up now
1 stalematedizzy 2017-10-03
I have no narrative at the moment.
Nothing about this makes any sense. There is no precedence. Not without a motive.
1 netadvisor 2017-10-03
Actually it makes the whole thing more plausible to the general sheep. Now that they can rule out terrorism, disgruntled military, etc... they can focus solely on gun control, which is what this is probably all about.
1 pizzaboy670 2017-10-03
so tell me a situation where you wouldn't think they CIA did it. If the shooter was what? White? Black? Muslim? Jewish? A dinosaur?
1 Reviken 2017-10-03
There's just so much fishy about the whole situation. I was reading some comments elsewhere, and someone suggested checking out Paddock's tax returns, because the multimillionaire gambler angle was suspect. Another user suggested checking to see if any victims were slated to testify in high profile court cases or something similar. The lack of any discernible motive warrants investigation, and the "he snapped" angle is too convenient.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
I can't say I disagree.
1 puphenstuff 2017-10-03
Oh please, I stay in LV hotels all the time. I don't use bell boys, but they will let you use their carts. Either way, These guns can be easily broken down and put in a duffel bag or rolling suitcase and not raise an eyebrow. What are you inferring? That it didn't happen, or the CIA helped him? I am certain you will see the tapes within the next week or so...
1 puphenstuff 2017-10-03
I knew this page would have a spin on this claiming it is a hoax...
1 TheRealFatMac 2017-10-03
Tough pill to swallow on a conspiracy thread...
1 Ronfarber 2017-10-03
A golf club travel case would accommodate ten rifles and would be very inconspicuous in a Las Vegas hotel.
1 Sturdyfootlong 2017-10-03
One thing that no one is bringing up is room services. Was no cleaning service allowed in the room at all? Every hotel or resort I have stayed at has had room service wanting to clean.
1 tedistkrieg 2017-10-03
do not disturb sign
1 d121212 2017-10-03
if you are just using your hotel for sleeping then you don't really need room service. sometime you just ask the maids in the hall for a fresh towel and say "do not disturb". probably even more common in a casino hotel where you don't want the maid stealing your cash or uncashed in poker chips.
1 Chokaholic 2017-10-03
Wow, the comments are extremely frustrating. So many people saying that the footage won't prove the guy did this. That's not the point though! If there's nothing to hide, then they can show the footage. I can't believe people are like "nah I don't want to see the footage, it proves nothing". Fuck that, I want to see EVERYTHING available.
1 javi404 2017-10-03
some people like to live with their blinders on.
1 oliver_21 2017-10-03
Yup. And if you ask logical questions you are unpatriotic and a conspirator.
1 javi404 2017-10-03
And need to be silenced as well.
1 postonrddt 2017-10-03
I guess the Do Not Disturb sign was on the door for days. I'm surprised the maid service assigned there didn't mention something.
1 Acidshits 2017-10-03
Why? Plenty of people like to party and don't want room service seeing their 'favors'. I leave mine on the door the whole trip because I don't want them to clean around my weed
1 sicknick 2017-10-03
You've obviously never been to Vegas. Also, this guy was a high roller. Those guys literally get whatever strange request they have, no questions asked. You want 2 rooms? You got it. You want to be left alone? You got it.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
Lol seriously? Do not disturb means just that be it 1 day or 30. U do not disturb period.
1 postslongcomments 2017-10-03
I throw up a do not disturb sign every time I go to a hotel for my entire stay. For one, I can clean up my own shit. Two, I don't want to tip a maid. Three, I don't want someone going through my shit.
1 rsclowser 2017-10-03
23 guns now. This is insane. No way this dude bought 60 some fibs legally in a 2 year period without throwing up some flags. This shit is nuts.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
ask the NRA/gun industry lobby if buying a lot of guns should throw up a red flag
It has literally been their mission to ensure that it DOES NOT
1 rsclowser 2017-10-03
It shouldn't be anyone's business how many you buy but 60?!? That's outrageous. I could see if you were like an antique collector or something and had accumulated that many over your life but 60 in 2 years is insane.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
im sure the gun industry is furious he spent so much money on firearms
im sure theyll be shortly pushing forward legislation to restrict the number of weapons any individual can own
1 trntchgdhd 2017-10-03
I don't think he got them all legally, it definitely would have been a big deal if he did
1 g3tr3ckless 2017-10-03
I really appreciate the comments, I apologize if I have upset anyone. Just simply using my own opinion and looking for answers to my questions as well. If anyone here have family in LV or are from LV I truly am sorry for what you are having to go through right now.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
I doubt they even knew he brought guns in. Have u ever stayed at a hotel in Vegas? It is like any hotel...u bring ur luggage in. Unchecked
1 sr_guy 2017-10-03
What about the distance between the hotel, and the concert? Can we assume bullets travelling that distance would reach its target accurately? I say there were snippers closer, and this is just a cover/BS story.
1 LeeKinanus 2017-10-03
Doubt (the shooters) were aiming at anyone in particular. when shooting into a flock of ducks you dont really pick one out.
1 sr_guy 2017-10-03
From the 30th floor? Come on.
1 LeeKinanus 2017-10-03
What do you think he was aiming for people "from the 30th floor" also full auto fire is completely the way you shoot for accuracy. /s. Wanna know how i can tell you dont have a firearm or have very little experience with them?
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
A term like area of effect comes to mind. Someone shooting accurately and slowly depending on a range of factors can proficiently hit a quarter at 2-400 yards. Hitting a 500x1000 foot area that is packed with people? That is the metaphorical "Hitting the broadside of a barn".
1 AssassiNerd 2017-10-03
This whole thing just screamed false flag. I knew it was the second I heard about it at 530 yesterday morning. I had just woken up but still managed to call it like it was.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
so you had a conclusion embedded in your mind before you knew anything about the situation? interesting
next step, only accept information that supports your preconceived notion
baby, youve got a confirmation bias stew going!
1 AssassiNerd 2017-10-03
Username relevant
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
oh you didnt preform an opinion ?
lol
1 yfwdbwdso 2017-10-03
23 rifles not 10
1 Tiger_Vet 2017-10-03
I get alot of the speculation on this entire situation but him bringing in this many rifles to a hotel room is not that hard to do over several days.
First a rifle can be broken down into smaller pieces pretty easily and stored in a suitcase. Hell depending on the suitcase, you could easily fit more than a couple into one. It's the same thing with the tripod.
Second, everybody talking about "oh they didn't notice this guy bring in several suitcases to his room". Look at the size of that fucking hotel. How many people are leaving/entering daily? How many are lugging suitcases back and forth? How many of you have had hotel parties where groups of people walk by the front counter into a hotel room and the clerk doesn't notice? Now imagine some random old white guy in Vegas(there are plenty I promise) over the course of several days. How much attention do you think was on him?
The real challenge for him would've been the ammo. Ammo is heavy and can take up alot of space. But if he broke it down out of the packaging, again he could fit fucking plenty into one or two suitcases.
There are plenty of questions about this entire situation. How he got that many weapons/much ammo into his room is not really that hard to fathom.
1 HerboIogist 2017-10-03
THANK YOU.
1 mcdouglebutt 2017-10-03
The amount of luggage i see people bring to vegas on a 3 day weekend, nobody would have batted an eye.
1 sicknick 2017-10-03
Mandalay Bay has a convention center in it as well. Not unusual to see people carrying around large boxes and hand carts with boxes on boxes
1 bassrhythm 2017-10-03
Were all firearms of the same caliber? If not, why bring them all along with the variety of necessary ammo types when he could have just brought a one or two with a lot of magazines with minimal variety of ammo calibers? That would have been so much lighter and minimalistic. I mean, is that not common sense?
1 Tiger_Vet 2017-10-03
I'm not sure if they were all the same caliber. What you're saying makes sense, I was just refuting the thought that he'd be noticed carrying suitcases to a hotel over several days.
1 criticalthinkitout 2017-10-03
Now we get the 2 close up pics of scary military guns.
1 EEarts 2017-10-03
He was there for several days and could have brought them in one at a time spacing them out.
1 DRUMIINATOR 2017-10-03
I was just talking about this at work. You can’t tell me there isn’t footage of him coming in the door, checking in, using an elevator etc. I bet we don’t see shit except a blurry photo of him walking through a lobby with a bag that might have a weapon in it.
1 Haterade_1010 2017-10-03
Hell, I'll take surveillance with a bag at this point. Doubt we'll even get that. Where's Ray Rice punching his wife when you need him? They'd have every angle of that.
1 DRUMIINATOR 2017-10-03
Yea tell me about it. I can see it now. A picture of a white male with a hat and or sunglasses carrying a duffel bag. Could be anybody.
1 sicknick 2017-10-03
Actually, his death photo and photos from the room are already hitting the internet and LVMPD has launched an internal investigation into how these photos made it online. Which tells me the photos are legit
1 CloudyMN1979 2017-10-03
How the hell did he get them past TSA? Anyone know any of the details of his trip?
1 bawners 2017-10-03
He lives an hour north of Vegas in Mesquite. No TSA required.
1 CloudyMN1979 2017-10-03
Oh, for some reason I thought he lived in Orlando.
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
Thats his brother.
1 jashleyren2 2017-10-03
I guess we should all get ready for it: the same way that bags going on airplanes are checked and scanned, or carried on and scanned, they will be doing this in hotels next. Whoever sells those XRay machines is probably a public traded company with lots of politician investors. Every fucking Hampton Inn from Miami to Tacoma will be installing them in the front lobby now. I mean, what's the difference? Yeah, a plane is a moving object, with dozens if not hundreds of people on board. A hotel is just a NON-MOVING object with dozens or hundreds of people inside.
It just turns my stomach when we have a disaster like this, and the stock markets surge, and some companies in particular, like the gun manufacturers, have banner days. It makes people more wealthy from tragedy.
And that's my biggest problem with capitalism. For one to get rich, someone else must suffer. It won't end well.
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
Michael "Skelator" Chertoff....
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
I wonder if this guy had a tumor, like the texas tower guy
1 shred1090 2017-10-03
Anyone else think it's strange that they put those huge spot lights on the crowd from the stage once jason Alden ran off the stage and completely exposed those people?
1 ShallowendPirate 2017-10-03
They were a large crowd. They were exposed. It was more likely done to keep people from trampling others and to give light to people trying to help.
1 shred1090 2017-10-03
That makes sense. But also they did turn all the lights out later on while people were running for cover. Just very confusing.
1 ShallowendPirate 2017-10-03
I wasn't there, I don't know, but I can imagine someone said something to the effect of: "the lights are making it easier to see them!"
There's also the possibility of exposing LEO in the area. Kill the lights to not give your position. Again, I wasn't there, just my 2 cents.
1 X_Cess1veSamurai 2017-10-03
<iframe src="https://www.facebook.com/plugins/post.php?href=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2FD0W0rKNJ3Rk%2Fposts%2F1672580719442622&width=500" width="500" height="650" style="border:none;overflow:hidden" scrolling="no" frameborder="0" allowTransparency="true"></iframe>
1 X_Cess1veSamurai 2017-10-03
https://www.facebook.com/SavageLifeProductions.605.SWO?hc_ref=ARRPVxsKZJHek2fE3TpO1e8LO7yRKgKNN-XSLdeowLjnfgtkTn1Rt1ZBpSAD9lneq7M&pnref=story
watch the video
1 stevemlutz 2017-10-03
I'm not sure this would prove anything. What if he was just bringing them to the hotel to setup a deal to sell them to someone? That someone could be seeing him up as a Patsy.
I would like to see the hallway footage outside his hotel room before, during, and after the shooting/beach.
1 bannana 2017-10-03
Everyone keeps making it sound like he would look out of place or odd in some way while transporting the guns to the room. Those rifles break down and would easily fit into a normal wheeled suitcase, he had rented the room for many days so him coming and going with a suit case each time wouldn't be at all strange. He wouldn't have looked like a guy checking into a hotel with normal luggage.
1 X_Cess1veSamurai 2017-10-03
i agree. this was definitely pre meditated so he clearly knew what to to do and when to do it shit just doesnt add up. the why is the issue and the motive will be interesting to discuss
1 bannana 2017-10-03
it's difficult when there isn't a clear cut motive.
1 oversoldbutitllwash 2017-10-03
I hope these answers can help with some of the questions I'm seeing. I've been in the hotel business for 15 years, from a bellman all the way to a General Manager. I hope I can answer the following questions with some insight from my career:
A: Very few hospitality employees would ever question a guest walking through a lobby. People transport massive amount of baggage and boxes throughout the day. In an operation on the scale of the Mandalay Bay, he could have had 20 duffle bags full of guns and no one would bat an eyelash. Vendors for a trade show alone often have that much.
A: Simply put, hotels don't care. If your credit card goes through and you want two rooms, more power to you. It's not as uncommon as you think. Especially in a "quirky" guest environment like Vegas.
A: Housekeepers are judged upon their productivity (how long it takes to clean the room). Unless the firearms were completely displayed for all to see, no housekeeper would care. In an environment like the Mandalay Bay and the size of that room, Housekeeping would have about 30 minutes max to clean that room. I'm surprised a person plotting a mass murder would not have a Do Not Disturb sign to be honest.
1 123456654321 2017-10-03
This If there is no footage, it was a psyop ‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️
1 netadvisor 2017-10-03
Seems more likely that he was the one being carried in to the hotel in a bag.
1 IknowyouknowImright 2017-10-03
Remote drones satellite operated from a distance. Small weapon drone test, Several Drones. No one mentions area 51 transport planes near the area named Janet Air - government run airline who transports people to area 51 to a weapons testing facility...... You need a live scenario for testing the weapons with the drone possible a test for North Korea as well as other governmental agendas.
1 FourFeathers88 2017-10-03
I screen shot a pic from google maps of a traffic camera opposite of the tower where shots were fired. I be this camera would have it in the view of where shots were fired along with how many windows shots were being fired from.
1 inailedyoursister 2017-10-03
Doesn't matter if video is released. There will be people here who will figure out the make and model of the suitcase, it's dimensions and yell about the suitcases being too small to transport that many gubs.
I'm a little dissapointed That no one here has come up with the "Tom Petty did it" conspiracy. I mean his death the same time as this Vegas shooting? Clearly Tom Petty snapped and killed those people. His family and record label scared of losing all that money then paid off the coronor to claim heart attack. Come on sheeple!! Tom Petty did it. It's right in front of your face!
1 ofnorms 2017-10-03
The only thing I wonder is... How come almost every other bad thing that's happened the media blamed "alt-right, Nazi, Trump supporters" but for this one I've heard nothing of him being an "alt-left, anti-trump, Democrat"
1 egool111 2017-10-03
Photo of dead Stephen Paddock
https://mobile.twitter.com/RealAlexJones/status/915258188181753857/photo/1
1 Bubba2016 2017-10-03
Jesus. I shouldn't have looked
1 1deafvet 2017-10-03
Paddock owned many rifles. Owning does not mean that he has any experience or competency in loading/reloading, shooting accurately, etc. One photo showed a rifle with a 'red-dot' type sight, not a scope. Hitting targets at 300 yards, even within a couple hundred square foot area, takes some practice. With .308 ammo especially, keeping on target with a high rate of fire, is very difficult with the amount of recoil. Even when using a bipod. He had no military or other relevant experience that anyone has shown. If he had visited rifle ranges or gun clubs, it seems that such info would have come out by now. No one has said that they had ever seen him go out shooting, maybe it was out in the remote desert ? Were any targets or (used) gun cleaning supplies found in his home? He had a fishing license once. What is missing?
1 ubervongoober 2017-10-03
This is like the pentagon not releasing footage of plane, why give others tips on how to get your weapons into hotel? He could have broken them down to pieces anyway so there is probably nothing to see
1 LukeMeDuke 2017-10-03
40 weapons!
1 sydewayzsoundz 2017-10-03
I bet Dollars to dickheads we never see that video either
1 kloular 2017-10-03
It is irrelevant. Unless ur saying he didn't bring the guns in himself. There is no evidence to be gained by seeing the guy give the car to valet and carry his luggage in. It is all very normal hotel activity.
1 AverageJoeAudiophile 2017-10-03
No one here realizes that most of those guns break down into something that can fit in a fucking backpack.
Not everything is a conspiracy.
1 7SM 2017-10-03
Yes but then there would be multiple trips with multiple empty, then full backpacks.
1 AverageJoeAudiophile 2017-10-03
Which wouldn't be odd at all if you are spending days in Las Vegas.
1 kloular 2017-10-03
Or how about just plain ol luggage on a luggage cart
1 Bootycheez4meplz 2017-10-03
What, in your opinion, makes a weapon "high-powered?" Is it the caliber its chambered in? The rate of fire? What? This term is nothing more than a scary sounding buzz-word used by the media to demonize guns. An AR-15 chambered in .223/5.56 is not really that "high-powered" compared to pretty much any basic deer rifle. Much less something like a military machine gun chambered in 7.62. And that term is most often used in reference to your everyday semi-automatic AR-15.
1 Borgbox 2017-10-03
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7O_3RQlKJb0
This sounds like 2 shooters in 2 locations to me... Other video confirms.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR6DsDGM1no Halfway through around 2:00 two separate reports.
1 postal83 2017-10-03
Maybe he had a gun caddy who knows.
1 TheRealFatMac 2017-10-03
Just stoking the fire, but the shooter could have just bought the weapons already converted..
But yes, the bumpstock was absolutely used. Undeniable.
1 SilverbackRibs 2017-10-03
I wouldn't say converting an AR to full auto is super hard to do by any means. The hardest part would be getting all of your paperwork in order.
But bolting on a bump fire stock would be much easier.
1 JosephStall 2017-10-03
Wtf do you mean? It sounds exactly like an M240. Exactly like it. So to say it sounded in no way like a heavy machine gun is idiotic.
1 Mongoosemancer 2017-10-03
Thanks. I keep my mouth shut about stuff when I don't know what I'm talking about, but this is something I have particular insight into because of my line of work. Just trying to think rationally and go one step at a time until more info comes out. This sub needs to go back toward skepticism and critical thinking instead of the echo chamber of fanatics that think everything is a conspiracy by nature just because It was posted here. Some things in this world are super fishy, some are simple and as they seem.
1 JosephStall 2017-10-03
It's up to 65,000 dollars to buy one though. I wasn't talking about a tax stamp. I'm talking about the price of the gun which I'm certain it was clear that's what I was stating. Also it's heavily regulated and difficult to get a fully auto light machine gun. You were right it wouldn't be a heavy machine gun it would be a light machine gun. What guns do you think were used?
1 theawesomethatis 2017-10-03
On several weapons it's super easy to file down the sear face to such a fine touch that it's technically still semi-auto but in use it's effectively full auto.
The downside is you usually lose all control.
Once you start the clip. It's going to fire until empty. You can't stop it.
1 Bmxracer2000 2017-10-03
Well trained? Nah. Watch some YouTube videos. You're golden.
1 48packet 2017-10-03
Agreed. Even fucking McDonald's has cams everywhere. How can this major high-rise resort not have something to show us. Maybe because he was dragged in by someone else, or maybe he came in in a bag.
Either way show us something. Shady as fuck.
1 Laughing_Bones 2017-10-03
I’m sorry I’ve missed some crucial info and have already felt suspicious of this before even investigating this very much, but he was shot in the back with a self inflicted shot gun blast?
1 stinkstick17 2017-10-03
Or most people here have obviously never been in a strip hotel lobby, the lobbys are massive with literally hundreds of people with bags/luggage everywhere.
Absolutly nothing would stand out about this guy, no matter how many trips he took outside to his car or how many bags he brought in
1 AaronSwartz56 2017-10-03
i dont know why this is such a popular thing to make fun of.
a company was dumping chemicals that they put in our fucking water and it was turning all the frogs at the dump site into hermaphrodites.
to me, thats serious, not funny.
1 shesellsseashellsby 2017-10-03
You're not creative or funny. Bot?
1 MiamiFTW 2017-10-03
I could point that on the echo from the bullets, I'm just wondering why it was long in between. The longer this goes on the more I doubt all this.
1 obsessile 2017-10-03
Hopefully l9nger than 4 daya. But I'm sure it will be "the video was destroyed by a ricochet" or something.
1 kurwacotyrobisz 2017-10-03
And how would he even get this much heavy equipment up on the 32nd floor? No way they have some kind of lifting device in Mandalay Bay
1 elj0h0 2017-10-03
Maybe, she's gay but she might be bi
1 fowuhhmcoe 2017-10-03
Wouldn't shock me in the least that the shooters were government hired and Paddock is nothing more than a fall guy to take the blame.
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
"100% chance the information... is unintentionally inaccurate". Wtf are you babbling about?
1 amlast 2017-10-03
The majority of outlets aren't run by the state
There are outlets like the Guardian (vehemently independent of UK government, broke Snowden/many Iraq stories), it's direct competition (e.g. The Telegraph, the Observers, the Times - all with their own editorial freedom, responsibilities, credibility, accountability standards in all news stories) - the media watchdogs that overlook them, the independent journalists, freelancers, Nordic outlets (Norway, Finland, Sweden - considered among the free-est in the world) which is all a drop in ocean compared to the thousands of outlets all over the world
Many of these scouring, researching, interviewing, cross-checking - the emergency responders, the police, investigators, hospital staff, doctors, the hundreds of people injured in wards, witnesses, neighbours, friends, etc
So far in the last 17 years or so I've seen every major terrorist attack and shooting (911, 7/7 London, Madrid train bombings, Sandy hook, Boston Bombing, Columbine, Charlie Hebdo, Aurora, Paris attacks, multiple recent London attacks, and many more) labelled as false flags or inside jobs on forums within hours of the event
The typical progression is that shortly after the attack posters start proclaiming the event is "fishy" or "strange". Other's group-validate that. Others point out not to trust the media/authorities (stage we are at now), then down the line comes the photos with the circles in them and youtube videos with collections of "discrepancies/doubts/holes" in order to discredit the "official" version of events, then interest dwindles until the next major attack/shooting
1 -TheNothing- 2017-10-03
Meaning we will never told shit
1 AtheismTooStronk 2017-10-03
IT HAPPENED LESS THAN TWO DAYS AGO. Give it some fucking time you nut.
1 JasonTakesMAGAtten 2017-10-03
This right here.
1 tooterfish_popkin 2017-10-03
I'm sure it's all just a horrible misunderstanding.
1 wilykily 2017-10-03
There was no evidence released to the public and it was all destroyed along with the school building itself. It was a FEMA drill.
1 BernieBalloonHair 2017-10-03
And twitter, and the police, and the country music stars that heard the shooting, and the tens of thousands of witnesses, and the nurses, EMTs, and the doctors at the hospitals, and the reporters and the FBI and the governor. They're all in on it and you guys are totally the sane rational ones
1 Zukb6 2017-10-03
Are they though? I've heard this before, but I know not all Vegas hotels are created equal. Mandalay Bay may seem fancy, but in terms of Strip hotels it's probably considered 2nd or 3rd tier at this point.
1 dotlinefever3 2017-10-03
you got that right.
Im 55 y.o. and in the construction industry myself, and i usually run circles around much younger colleagues.
1 godplaysdice_ 2017-10-03
Then I'm sure it will be released once the investigation is finished if it is indeed in the public interest. OMG 36 hours later and they haven't finished their investigation into the largest mass shooting in US history yet??! What a conspiracy!!
1 Aliandren 2017-10-03
Yeah I'm wondering if they returned fire through the door and came in and found him dead from the exchange. Decided it was better to say self inflicted.
1 YogurtCoveredAsian 2017-10-03
Many people called saying they saw more shooters. These 'shooters' were SWAT teams with guns entering the hotel. I also heard off-duty cops were in the area with weapons.
Just because some civilian saw someone with a gun, doesn't mean it was another shooter.
1 TheRealFatMac 2017-10-03
Tough pill to swallow on a conspiracy thread...
1 Sexy_Bellies 2017-10-03
We're all mocking those few redditors who claim he could not possibly have gotten his rifles up to his room undetected over the 4 days he was staying there.
1 BernieBalloonHair 2017-10-03
Nope I do understand a reference. There is no context to base this on a joke and nuance doesn't apply here but big words must make feel smart.
1 Kasperhashops 2017-10-03
You had me until you made up statistics.
1 Kasperhashops 2017-10-03
I love how people use the name of this subreddit to justify posting wild speculation totally at odds with the facts
1 glugglug 2017-10-03
I was kidding, mostly.
1 Acidshits 2017-10-03
Why? Plenty of people like to party and don't want room service seeing their 'favors'. I leave mine on the door the whole trip because I don't want them to clean around my weed
1 Kasperhashops 2017-10-03
Of course there’s a possibility. Do you have a point?
1 sicknick 2017-10-03
You've obviously never been to Vegas. Also, this guy was a high roller. Those guys literally get whatever strange request they have, no questions asked. You want 2 rooms? You got it. You want to be left alone? You got it.
1 ResidualLimbs 2017-10-03
It's cut off it's actually "33" he's a Freemason
1 tendieizdanite 2017-10-03
It makes r/conspiracy nearly worthless. There are real conspiracies out there but these wild assed users with crazy speculation makes this place look like a lunatic bin.
1 dowodenum 2017-10-03
Nevada: 19.5 firearms per 1,000 people. Course that's 2014 data... numbers run by CBS news, data from the ATF and the Census
1 Foyt20 2017-10-03
It was all a money thing. Got the cheaper thing.
Someone eve asked my opinion on racket cases while I was at the store. I kind of laughed and said "the cheapest they have" and walked away.
1 outbackdude 2017-10-03
that just sounds ridiculous. even in shitty hotels in Perth Australia there are cameras on each level.
1 UnverifiedAllegation 2017-10-03
oh you didnt preform an opinion ?
lol
1 GrapeChineseFood 2017-10-03
Pretty sure it's a neck wrinkle
1 kloular 2017-10-03
Lol seriously? Do not disturb means just that be it 1 day or 30. U do not disturb period.
1 7SM 2017-10-03
Yes but then there would be multiple trips with multiple empty, then full backpacks.
1 postslongcomments 2017-10-03
I throw up a do not disturb sign every time I go to a hotel for my entire stay. For one, I can clean up my own shit. Two, I don't want to tip a maid. Three, I don't want someone going through my shit.