I’ve been lurking here for like 10 years. How can you discuss a conspiracy theory without discussing how it differed from the mainstream narrative.

It seems like you’re advocating for people to just be stupid and believe things without any basis or reliable evidence whatsoever. That’s the difference between a “theory” and “bullshit”.

He's talking about people constantly pushing the MSM narrative down everyone's throats and muddy the water when people discuss alternative theories. This doesn't allow discussions. It seems that you either missed his point or you're trying to twist his words.

I disagree. I think you’re the one twisting his words and projecting your beliefs into what he said.

Wrong.

Can anyone on here speak for themselves? Or are you guys just gonna keep jerking each other off?

I'm speaking for myself.

but you've been here for 10 years, don't you remember?

I’m clearly speaking about the current state of the sub. Please, the adults are trying to talk.

oh i see, keep being a jerk to each other is it. i'm sure no one would lie about their seniority on the internet

Right so you assume I’m lying about how long I’ve lurked in the sub because I disagree with you.

Weaponized Ignorance

Or are you guys just gonna keep jerking each other off?

I wouldn't mind a quick handjob.

Sure anyone here could speak for themselves, but you have already showed your ability to discuss by simply dismissing the highest upvoted reply to your comment with a simple: "I disagree, I think you’re the one twisting his words and projecting your beliefs into what he said.". Without any sort of reasoning or comment on WHY you disagree. Why should anyone take the time to "speak for themselves" when we have seen you just simple disagree, don't provide reasoning for disagreeing and then put fourth some sort of self-righteous effort in your next comment that you would like "real feedback".........

Without any sort of reasoning or comment on WHY you disagree.

Considering he said something totally different from OP, what other conclusion could I logically draw? He said something TOTALLY different, so I accused him of projecting his own beliefs into his interpretation of what OP was saying. I’m not sure what other way you would expect me to justify that.

Why should anyone take the time to "speak for themselves" when we have seen you just simply disagree, don't provide reasoning for disagreeing and then put fourth some sort of self-righteous effort in your next comment that you would like "real feedback".........

I can’t tell you why you should speak for yourself, and what a bizarre question to ask. Actually you probably shouldn’t speak for yourself, if this is the type of detached from reality shit you come up with

Sure thing! Whatever you say!

OP said:

Lots of new users here since the shooting and lots of patronising comments towards users who actually want to discuss conspiracy theories around this event. No matter how ludicrous a theory might might seem to you it's not fair to berate other users for expressing a viewpoint that you might not be used to in other subs.

You said:

It seems like you’re advocating for people to just be stupid and believe things without any basis or reliable evidence whatsoever. That’s the difference between a “theory” and “bullshit”.

Then when some one interpreted you went on the attack, didn't provide counter argument. And now that I have countered, you respond with this:

Actually you probably shouldn’t speak for yourself, if this is the type of detached from reality shit you come up with

You are truly intelligent if this is the best you can argue with... No facts, counter points or alternate theory's.... Just point and blame. Keep it up!

I don’t trust his interpretation of what’s “patronizing” considering he clearly doesn’t understand the definition of the word.

I also disagree that a ludicrous theory WITH NO EVIDENCE shouldn’t be berated, along with the person promoting said theory and watering down the quality of this forum. Have you read any of my other posts or anyone else’s in this thread? If you can’t keep up with the discussion that’s not my problem.

This thread is and always has been an opinion based discussion, so you’re demand for “facts” makes no sense in this context. What facts are you looking for? Should I sneak into their houses and read their diaries?

Just FYI I will only be addressing your comments that are relevant to this thread:

I don’t trust his interpretation of what’s “patronizing” considering he clearly doesn’t understand the definition of the word.

Says you with not evidence to back it.

I also disagree that a ludicrous theory WITH NO EVIDENCE shouldn’t be berated, along with the person promoting said theory and watering down the quality of this forum.

Sure! It should be berated! In case you don't know what berate measn: https://www.google.com/search?q=define+berated&oq=define+berated&aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.4903j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

I haven't seen any where you have provided any sort or reproach or admonishment saying otherwise.

This thread is and always has been an opinion based discussion, so you’re demand for “facts” makes no sense in this context. What facts are you looking for? Should I sneak into their houses and read their diaries?

Again no sort of submitted proof or axamples? Just talking out your ass?

TLDR: Your a tool who thinks they can talk their way out of their shitt fucking comment that some how got upvotes. Yet you lack any substance to your comments and I still sit here waiting for you to provide it...... Keep going troll! I'm on vaca let dance all night long!

This is the last time I’m responding to you, as your replies continue to get more unhinged and I hope you’re purposefully trying to waste my time and not being serious.

patronize: treat with an apparent kindness that betrays a feeling of superiority.

He says that people are insulting and berating him. Patronizing is clearly not the right word.
The evidence you were seeking that OP doesn’t understand the word would have come from 1) reading comprehension 2) dictionary

Both of which were available to you already. Stop being lazy or obstinate, whichever it is.

I said:

This thread is and always has been an opinion based discussion

You said:

Again no sort of submitted proof or examples? Just talking out your ass?

Are you drunk? The evidence is the thread itself....WHAT?!

TLDR: Your a tool who thinks they can talk their way out of their shitt fucking comment that some how got upvotes. Yet you lack any substance to your comments and I still sit here waiting for you to provide it...... Keep going troll! I'm on vaca lets dance all night long!

Maybe you should get off Reddit and enjoy your “vaca”. Clearly the only one trolling is you.

Do people that say that other people are projecting not know that they themselves are projecting? Have they heard of "Fallacy Fallacy"? Have they taken social psychology or any soc or psych past introductory?

Do people that say that other people are projecting not know that they themselves are projecting?

Of course. Are you actually asking or just passive-aggressively accusing me of being the one projecting?

Have they heard of "Fallacy Fallacy"? Have they taken social psychology or any soc or psych past introductory?

I have a B.A. in Sociology.

OP said that he either gets patronized or berated for posting his wild theories. As I interpret it (because who else is going to interpret it for me), that covers the full spectrum of possible responses to something posted that is, for all purposes, insane. It leaves no room for dissent.

In effect, he wants this to be a “safe space” for all ideas, regardless of how little justification there is for even having the idea in the first place. I, on the other her hand, feel the total opposite.

Maybe you should try to understand to conversation taking place before you chime in?

Are you saying people here don't berate other for expressing alternative views? That's what he's bringing to light.

He never said we can't discuss how a theory differs from the MSM narrative. Everyone knows the MSM narrative already. We are here to come up with alternatives theories as only a fucking moron would still buyanything the MSM feeds them.

So I challenge you and say that it's people who berate others that don't allow productive and constructive conversations from taking place?

Point to me how exactly what he says that promotes and advocates people to be stupid? Sems you're talking out of your ass and so do the upvotes that follow.

So...is it ok to point out the flaws of a proposed theory if it's done in a nice/civil way? The way I'm reading some of the stuff in this thread, it sounds like some folks would like to be able to discuss theories unopposed - which, I get: it's fun and exciting to think up conspiracy theories. If that's the goal of this sub, so be it.

Further, it's not necessarily a given that everyone knows the MSM message on a topic. Even if there's information available from the MSM, that doesn't mean we've all brought ourselves up to speed on it. I think it's especially important to be able to discuss MSM messages here so as to maintain a level of skepticism of that message - particularly when an event continues to evolve (such as the Vegas shooting).

If this is going to be a safe space for conspiracy theorists then that's cool - I think that's good for those of us who would like to be able to test the merits of a specific theory to know so as to not offend. If, however, this sub and its contributors are able to stomach criticism/skepticism of ideas, I think it's worth discussing how we can do so with tact and civility.

(To clarify, I'm not suggesting you hold any specific views on the matter so I hope I don't come across as suggesting you do by asking questions.)

mostly its the fact that the majority of comments in some threads are simply insulting everyone who believes in a certain theory or they insult the r/conspiracy community as a whole. Their comments don't add to the discussion whatsoever because they don't offer any insight. If you have been here for ten years then I am sure you are familiar with forum sliding and other tactics used to manipulate online discussion.

I've been here about half as long and I'm familiar with what you're talking about. I, of course, have a personal bias, but I'm cognizant of it so take these examples with a grain of salt as they stand out in my mind when discussing this.. We've all seen the anti-Clinton spam anytime Trumple Thinskins makes the news and I'm aware that it happens with other subjects, of course.

I definitely agree with you about those here who add nothing to the discussion. Such as those who, without responding to the article or a single point made by a poster, call people shills, racist etc.

Could you imagine if everyone in this sub stuck to the Socratic Method and reddiquette? That would be so sick.

It was more like that when I first joined this sub. The posts generally didn't have as many comments and most of what people did is share new info that relates to the topic at hand. But, once this place began to become the last refugee of the pizzagaters and every other sub that had been taken over, we saw a massive influx in nonsense and name-calling. People began labeling one another trumptard, snowflake, libtard, etc. And that's when it became obvious that narrative control was going on

But, once this place began to become the last refugee of the pizzagaters and every other sub that had been taken over, we saw a massive influx in nonsense and name-calling. People began labeling one another trumptard, snowflake, libtard, etc. And that's when it became obvious that narrative control was going on

Definitely! That's the main reason that I've said that this subreddit is a battleground for ideologues. The election was when I started to see the subreddit's quality decline, but when Pizzagate was the hot topic, discourse started to degrade exponentially. Please don't take my last statement as a slam against all who espouse the PG conspiracy as there were several rational folks that I talked with. It did, however, fuel what I view to be one of the cancers to discourse; Accusing people of shilling without addressing the content of their post. Critical thinking and the Socratic Method will do more to battle shills than blind accusations, in my opinion.

So...is it ok to point out the flaws of a proposed theory if it's done in a nice/civil way?

Yes, in my opinion this is exactly how things should be done. But frequently this is not done in this manner. Obviously people can be critical of a conspiracy theory, but they should do in a civil and kind manner, realizing there is a human being on the other side of that computer screen.

That is also the only way we can get good conversations, snarky comments, insults, berating....none of that leads to anywhere.

Uh, I didn't either. Understand that there are daily posts here complaining that people ask for the evidence used as a basis for an opinion or theory. Your post reads very similarly.

Everyone knows the mainstream narrative.

Actually, no they don't. People are still right now posting about the "suicide note", even though they stated in a press conference yesterday that it wasn't a suicide note, but they couldn't say what it was.

There's so much info that we can't expect everyone to know it. Perhaps you knew about the note, perhaps not.. someone will likely read this that didn't.

I think the problem isn't someone bring smug trying to prove someone wrong, I think the problem is that people don't like being proven wrong. But you will never get any form of truth, by wanting something to be true, that isn't.

The biggest issue is how most here just dismiss or ignore factual proof that kills any conspiracy, I love a good conspiracy but I can't suffer ignorance

Point to me how exactly what he says that promotes and advocates people to be stupid?

Have you browsed this sub lately? That’s what’s happening and his post is defending that. It’s not a long leap.

10 years and still pushing the MSM eh? You would think after 10 years one would start becoming supportive of people who call out pro-MSM shills.

I’m not pushing the MSM. I’m just sick of this sub being overrun by either disinfo agents or nutjobs who make us all look like whack jobs who peddle theories with NO EVIDENCE OR LOGIC WHATSOEVER.

Perfect example, how you jsut accused me of pushing the MSM NARRATIVE with literally no evidence whatsoever to back up they accusation.

I accused you of not supporting people who are calling out pro-MSM shills.

Those people who who theories that ar debunkable will eventually get debunked, and respectfully so. But if they aren't given the space to get debunked and people are berated everytime because they don't align with the MSM then it creates more confusion. This is a classic case of mudying the water.

At this point I would rather hear a theory someone has come up with and try to analyze it rather than re-hearing the MAN. Isn't there other subs to discuss the official narrative? Like every other sub out there but this one? Stop trying to make this sub into something it's not. It's a conspiracy sub for fucks sake. Why do so many snowflakes get their panties up in a bunch when people discuss conspiracy in a fucking conspiracy sub. It's like people getting upset you can only be pro-Trump at T_D. Well duuuuuuh.

10 years and still pushing the MSM eh?

I accused you of not supporting people who are calling out pro-MSM shills, which really puts you more into a pro-MSM stance.

You can’t even maintain your handle on reality from post to post. get help.

I'll get up if you go fuck yourself.

Deal motherfucker

God damn you. I almost choked on my wrap when I read that. Also, I've been in your position before, sans fucking yourself, trying to reason with ideologues. It's fruitless unless you enjoy the rectal ragnarok that is inevitable when they can't make a coherent argument. Hell, one of them called my use of the Socratic Method "retarded bullshit". Seriously.

Because right now the entire world is on a precipice where almost all the normies are on a ledge ready to wake up to how crazy the world actually is and they are incredibly combative because the worldview they want to believe is slowly unraveling in front of us all.

Notice how when wikileaks emails are brought up people dont even try to refute them they just say non sequitors and tell you to put on your tin foil hat or try to change the subject, because the emails are all 100 percent real and confirmed.

Unlike this russia conspiracy which is the epitome of stretching and actually has less evidence then many conspiracies that have been discussed for years.

Yet the msm and normies are all eating up a conspiracy theory served up by msm whilst emails are right there to be seen by the public of all manner of fuckery including practicing the occult/spirit cooking.

make us look like whack jobs

Who is us? And why are you calling anyone who disagrees with you a whack job?

Who is us?

The people who frequented this forum before people like you and OP took over.

And why are you calling anyone who disagrees with you a whack job?

Are you a lunatic? OP is mad because he wants to post crazy “theories” that he pulls out of his ass, and gets mad when sensible, disciplined people call him out for it.

The people who frequented this forum before people like you and OP took over.

What? Can you provide evidence that this sub reddit was ever a homogenous whole? I've been coming here for a decade and I don't think your assumption is accurate.

he wants to post crazy “theories” that he pulls out of his ass,

Where should we be posting crazy theories we pull out of our asses?

Where should we be posting crazy theories we pull out of our asses?

Wherever you want. Just expect to get challenged for it. Go out into your front lawn and start spinning your dick around in a circle and don’t be surprised if your neighbors don’t want you to come to their yard sale.

The reason I come to this subreddit is to read crazy conspiracy theories and do something called thought experiments.

You can do that without hijacking the forum, no?

What? How am I hijacking the forum?

It’s called in “impersonal you”.

Lmfao here we go with the shill accusations. I posted under a different username for a bit, but that name was related to my music business and I made some controversial statements that I didn’t want associated with my professional life, so I deleted it.

Is that an acceptable response for you?

I didn't call you shill, just said it was an interesting pattern.

Even more interesting is that another user who was stalking me has a similar history.

He's calling anyone who disagrees with the MSM line a "whack job"

He's calling anyone who disagrees with the MSM line a "whack job"

If I felt that way why would I even be here? I think we were lied to about Columbine, Aurora, 9/11, and countless other things.

great assessment tho...

You're not alone in your thinking.

This sub has been over run since the election.

Toxic.

Straw man. We are asking for people not to come here and make personal attacks against the subreddit and it's users

Define what you mean by personal attack? Calling paranoid behavior what it is?

paranoid behaviour

What are you specifically referring to? Do you have a source? It sounds like you feel threatened by people speculating and making up crazy theories. Why?

It sounds like you feel threatened by people speculating and making up crazy theories. Why?

This is a perfect example of paranoid behavior.

You’re doing everything but outright calling me a shill because I make the controversial statement that the theories discussed in this forum should at least be grounded in reality.thats it. Just one shred of reality and I’m cool. Grand claims require grand evidence. This used to be a great place full of great minds. Now all the top threads are just pages of retarded shit that is s total waste of time because it’s people just speculating and posting whatever crazy thought pops into their head with no evidence whatsoever to support even thinking that in the first place.

Believe in reptilians? Cool, there’s at least cave drawings and shit that look like lizard people?

But to say something like (hypothetical example they I saw somewhere) “the Las Vegas shooter was dead days before the shooting took place”. Well there’s currently no evidence whatsoever to support something like that. So I would consider something like that should be down voted and ridiculed into oblivion.

If someone were working to discredit this place, that’s EXACTLY what it would look like.

No one cares what passes your litmus test buddy that's the point.

I do.

I’m glad that you made it so obvious that you think you can speak for everyone

the theories discussed in this forum should at least be grounded in reality

who gets to decide what this means? Do you know the history of conspiracy theories? There are and have been some pretty crazy esoteric ones!

Why do thought experiments and roleplaying need to be grounded in reality?

who gets to decide what this means?

All of us, but ultimately the mods I guess

There are and have been some pretty crazy esoteric ones! Why do thought experiments and roleplaying need to be grounded in reality?

I’m sure there is a sub for thought experiments, but this is a great place for that, but I t does seem like hijacking this sub for your own ends, and that’s basically my issue with it.

You were a lurker for a while eh. What made you suddenly start posting again?

I thought the sub was degrading into complete bullshit and changing dramatically, quickly. Rather than just complain I decided to do my part and participate and try to make this place more like how I want it to be. I’m not delusional to think I can do it by myself but I hope that there must be others who feel the way I do.

try to make this place more like how I want it to be

Me too.

Ok. I haven’t once suggested you leave the forum, but you have suggested that to me and other users several times.

No, you can post in both, I've only suggested that we ban people who follow the predictable formula of quoting the MSM and calling anyone who disagrees names.

That’s far less of a problem to me than people just posting shit straight from their assess

And now we’ve come full circle. How fulfilling.../s

just posting shit straight from their assess

That's not against the rules, using crude language that attacks this sub and it's users is.

Abusive, not crude language is against the rules.

Rule #2 says no accusations of rule violations in comments, so the irony of your post in INCREDIBLE

I understand that. I don’t have a problem with you or OP expression your opinion and trying to make this place the way you want it. I don’t get more of a say than anyone else

In my own experience, the negativity is often (not always) proportional to the “unverifiability” of the post in question.

The fact that you felt like you needed to explain any of what you said to me just shows how little you even understand what is being discussed here.

I posted a photo and asked for opinions on it and people got all bent out of shape i didnt have a link... if i had a link i wouldnt be looking for info. Then i was told i was fishy. This sub is more about agenda than fair open decent discussion lately.

That’s.. kinda funny that a cultist is complaining about agendas over open discussion.

Lol posts only in the donald and NASCAR. Go figure.

All of your posts on this sub consist of belittling people questioning official narratives.

Removed. Rule 5.

Hurr durr. I like our president.

Likes the president isn’t why you’re a cultist. Not being banned from the Donald is however at the very least a sign of no integrity and lack of awareness about open discussion and guided narratives.

Removed. Rule 5.

Irony!

God just shut up.

Only when I feel like it, so not right now.

I got fucking banned over this? Fuck that’s not right.

LOL.

And that's how that works. Well done, team! Lol.

Removed. Rule 10

This sub is basically r/iamverysmart meet up

Hastey generalization.

This is a stupid post. Mainstream idea are just as valid as theory as well, ya goof.

That said, anyone who is here and thinks our government needs to fake killing peope should pack it up and log off now.

By definition, mainstream ideas are not valid HERE. Did you read what the OP said? HERE = r/conspiracy

NOT CNN/FOX la la land....

OP is not my boss, or even a moderator of this sub.

Banana for scale. Don’t tell others what they may or may not post. Tell them it’s dumb or wrong if you like.

You have the whole rest of Reddit to circlejerk the mainstream narrative. This sub is specifically for discussing alternatives- no matter how far out the ideas seem. I'm not sure why it bothers so many people that others may be entertaining theories that are different than the spoonfed version.

As opposed to the specific targeted narrative, eh?

Of course. The official narrative has already proven itself faulty. The MSM version of events deserves serious scrutiny. You are welcome to believe whatever you want and other's have that same right.

I don’t necessarily believe the guy was the only shooter. My only point is that people need to understand it’s way easier to just kill people than try to fake it. There may even be crisis actors survivors, im only saying that the bodies, the deaths are typically real.

There are a couple people here that firmly believe LV is a hoax. I disagree, but I don't think that is anymore harmful than the massive number of people that jump through hoops to protect the official version by insulting, attacking and berating any attempt to question the the parts of the story that don't line up.

The honest people here throw spaghetti theories against the wall all the time with the intent of getting honest input and gather more info from others. Rarely do I see anyone here that I'm familiar with be unwilling to accept info that pokes a hole in their theory.

I think it IS harmful to push the idea of an American government that doesn’t kill its citizens to meet an agenda. Maybe they don’t everytime, but the “Hollywood: operation crisis act 14” theories are mostly garbage, and actively stop new seekers of truth.

Welp, I think it's harmful to run around threads calling honest users with good input "cultists" because you have a different political view.

I think it IS harmful to push the idea of an American government that doesn’t kill its citizens to meet an agenda.

Whatever you're trying to say here, you failed miserably.

I've said this before, there is no official narrative. It's only been four days and the investigation isn't over. It's like nobody understands how investigations work. It's possible they're looking for a second shooter but they don't want to let that person know.

I understand that the situation is fluid and the story changes, but there definitely is a controlled narrative at all times.

If you disagree with a conspiracy theory, comment on another that you agree with! Nobody cares that you disagree. And if you cant find any that you agree with, post one of your own or GTFO.

Freedom, Bobby, freedom. You want a controlled narrative with tough modding, these a sub for that.

Sure, and you probably don't realize that you come across as small-minded and brainwashed when you cling on to the mainstream propaganda narrative. I just block users like that because they contribute nothing and have no insight at all.

you come across as small-minded and brainwashed

Then you block people who challenge your idea of what’s going on, this actively brainwashing yourself

Nah, those who do it constructively don't get blocked. Its mostly just the shills who I block.

When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail

OP is an obvious shill, just ignore him and move on.

A thread like this is a good opportunity to allow them space to illustrate how they operate. There are so many honest truthseekers here that are new to this. It's good for them to see what shilling looks like so they can identify it when it matters.

Removed. Rule 10

Why is it only for discussing alternatives? I'm fairly sure it says conspiracy as the name of the sub, not "AlternativeConspiracies". If there is a conspiracy in the mainstream news, it should absolutely fit within the confines of this sub. People should be encouraged to discuss the merits of it, the problems inherent in it, and also whether or not there's a conspiracy behind the conspiracy so to speak. There's also nothing in the sidebar, last I checked, that is limiting the scope of discussion here at all.

I fully understand your reasoning behind the statement, I just disagree because I feel this sub should be as welcoming as possible to all people who have a questioning mind. The No True Scotsman stuff gets used around here, by some and not all, to try and limit discussion and participation.

I just think it's specifically for talking about conspiracy, not an MSM news forum.

If there's a conspiracy being discussed in the MSM, it's still a conspiracy. We'll likely talk about it here from multiple angles, which may or may not agree with the MSM conclusions, but it should still be fair game. As far as articles go, your choice is whether or not you consider this to be a news forum at all. If current articles involving/discussing current conspiracies are acceptable, then all sources of current articles should be welcome. If you don't want this to be a news forum, then everything should be off-limits. Either no censorship or total blackout, not some biased censorship where we pick and choose the narratives so people visiting here only get that version of events. Let's keep it transparent because people here read the comments on an article, so there's plenty of opportunity to educate them on the lies they might be seeing.

Personally I'd love a flair system for posts so I could filter out topics I'm just not interested in. I get your sentiment and I've echoed similar to it before, but I just disagree with the word "specifically".

Maybe you need to be a little more discerning. You know what I find compelling? Shells on top of his blood pool that are immaculately clean. The fact that he left a note and it “isn’t a suicide note” but they won’t tell us what it said. That he had 20 guns and didn’t use most of them. If someone said, what if it was an arms deal that went south, I wouldn’t dismiss that, because hey it’s at least remotely supported by something. Clearly I don’t reject conspiracy theories. I just have a brain and can’t turn it off.

If there’s no evidence whatsoever then it it just a bullshit, made up story. I can’t believe that this is controversial.

Removed. Rule 5.

In other words, shills fuck off.

Around here it's, shills only.

When a post hits all a lot of people may comment on it. Ignore the haters and answer any questions new people may have.

As much of a waste as you are, calling for the deaths of American citizens and whatnot, this is a good point.

Removed. Rule 5.

Exactly, I am tired of people coming into threads slamming anyone who dares question the official narrative

This is a CONSPIRACY sub, what do you think we are going to talk about?

Just proves that shills and propagandists have overrun this place.

the difference is having absolutely no evidence that backs up the conspiracy.

You can't just say I KNOW PADDOCK WAS A PATSY AND THIS WAS AN FBI SETUP PAID FOR THE BY THE SAUDIS and not expect to get some heat if you have nothing to back it up and then get angry at those people and call them shills for not being on your side

Exactly this. If you say ‘I think (thing happened)’ that’s one thing, once you start saying ‘I know (thing happened)’ you are essentially saying you have incontrovertible proof (thing happened) and should be held to that standard, otherwise it feel like the old repeat the lie over and over until it becomes true situation.

it feel like the old repeat the lie over and over until it becomes true situation.

I've seen this happen several times in this subreddit, sadly. Well said, however.

If you're new here, chances are you aren't looking at the big picture. I know crisis actors are real and have been used at other "deadly" events. If you don't realize that yet then your perspective will be very different.

Are you talking about that site that claims all these extremely different looking people are the same person because of there earlobes (which never even look the same).

There’s a part of your brain responsible for recognizing faces as unique, and some people are better at it than most people, while some are MUCH MUCH worse at it.

Are you talking about that site that claims all these extremely different looking people are the same person

no

Do you sure any good sources? The idea of crisis actors is compelling to me by all the evidence seems so shitty. I’d love to find it more

This article has been called a "slam dunk" and has had over 200K views.

https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2013/05/08/false-flag-theatre-boston-bombing-involves-clearly-staged-carnage/

Thanks I’m about to check it out now.

Sounds like you just want to feel intellectually superior to everyone. Go back to the mainstream subs cuck.

Some people only come to this sub to be contrarians and to support the mainstream narrative. Its such an easy thing to do, but you can tell they feel so smart and smug when they do it.

You know what I do when I see a conspiracy theory that I disagree with? I don't comment on the damn thread saying as much, like some jackass who loves the smell of his own farts.

you should contribute to the discussion the issues you have with the theory. thats how things get shaped

And that is literally all some people do here, it isn't productive and it doesn't shape anything.

So asking you to think critically about a theory isn't productive? If you just want to make up stories and LARP, I'm sure r/fiction would love some new material.

If your theory crumbles when someone asks a question, maybe it's just a shit theory.

(Or is me pointing that out not productive?)

or, maybe by definition, a theory is not necessarily going to be provable. It is, after all, a theory. it is not, by definition, a fact...which of course is provable. Those folks who come in and demand proof of this or that tend to do so knowing that proof is not available.

Actually, a theory must be provable by definition, or it isn't a theory.

Being unproven and being unprovable are very very different.

Actually, a theory must be provable by definition, or it isn't a theory.

Once it is proven, it becomes a fact...no longer a theory. Let's have a look at the definition of a theory:

a proposed explanation whose status is still conjectural and subject to experimentation, in contrast to well-established propositions that are regarded as reporting matters of actual fact.

Being unproven and being unprovable are very very different.

While they may be different, it is irrelevant to the definition of a theory.

Completely disagree. All things that are unprovable are unproven. Not all things that are unproven are unprovable. So it is very much relevant. If something. Is objectively unprovable, it isn’t worth discussing

Is objectively unprovable, it isn’t worth discussing

Your opinion is noted. I disagree.

Right, once it becomes PROVEN it is a fact. It can't become proven without being provable.

You do understand the difference between proven and provable, right?

Do you understand you have no special right to be the arbiter of what others choose to discuss?

What the hell does that have to do with anything? I'm not trying to be. Why are you getting defensive because you were wrong?

Theories must be ABLE TO BE PROVEN. They're not facts UNTIL they are proven. Do you follow yet, you angry little idiot?

Theories must be ABLE TO BE PROVEN.

When dealing with anything having the deal with the US government absent a whistle blower, who's motivations weren't questioned, there would never be any discussion in this sub.

They're not facts UNTIL they are proven.

This I understand.

Do you follow yet, you angry little idiot?

Lol angry? I think you are projecting. only one of us is insulting the other.

Exactly. This thread is like a mosquito complaining about being swatted.

If that's how you feel why are you here...do you enjoy the company of mosquitoes? If so I find that rather odd.

If mosquitos infested a place I love to go, I can assure you my plan of action wouldn’t be to abandon the place I love.

Your characterization of the folks who post here is telling.

Your characterization SOME of the folks who post here is telling.

FTFY.

Thanks for qualifying your statement.

You're exactly who OP is talking about based on this comment solely.

Belittlement and then insult based on your preconceived notions of existence and truth compared to another user's. You doubled down.

If you can't be civil, then what's the point of engaging with you.

I'm not belittling him for a theory. He literally doesn't know what provable means.

I believe he asked what gave you the right to be the arbitor of truth and what others choose to discuss, you chose to reply with vitriol instead of continuing with the debate with a response that actually required more than a kneejerk reaction to write. Anyone can blatantly question the others intelligence without providing anything else to the conversation.

If we only spoke about what is proven, we'd be 60 minutes tv show instead of an internet messaging board. It didn't seem like he was arguing the definition of provable, he asked what made you feel the righteous indignation to dictate what is provable in all aspects of conspiracy (especially involving government cover-ups, so he asked what gave you the knowledge and authority over it), which you got flustered and called him an idiot for not curtailing to your words, which I'm assuming you believe are rock solid truth nuggets in a world filled with falsehoods.

It's not difficult to engage in discussions like actual adults, the internet has warped men into man children thanks to anonymity.

You're putting words in my mouth like he was. I never said we should only talk about what's proven, that would defeat the entire purpose of discussing conspiracies.

He claimed that a theory did not need to be provable. That's just flat out incorrect, and it has nothing to do with mine or yours or his idea of truth. Provable just means that, hypothetically, something would be able to be proven. It doesn't mean we did prove it, or that it's likely to be proven, or that it's not really fucking difficult to prove. It just means that it CAN somehow be proven.

If he didn't mean provable in the literal sense, then that's his poor choice of words, not mine.

You called him an idiot and reacted, I pointed out that the behavior is what OP is discussing.

He didn't claim that, he asked what made you the authority over what is provable and worth discussing when you cannot prove or disprove a theory involving a government conspiracy, you can speculate, use media, have an eyewitness report but it's very difficult to unequivocally prove or disprove a conspiracy based on the available information since it will be disputed all the way until it is proven (like all major conspiracies). That's just the nature of conspiracy theories

Your position is soley on what is provable, but have you ever actually tried to find proof in favor of a conspiracy theory or just to devalue it based on your preconceived notions of what you can personally prove based on your position?

Sorry you have difficulty discussing a subject without using insults to belittle others to prove your point, but it isn't my fault you've managed to encapsulate exactly what OP was discussing in one of the top comment chains.

Provable has nothing to do with someone being able to PERSONALLY prove it. A government conspiracy is certainly provable, no matter how unlikely it is. It CAN be proven, even if it won't ever be. Disputing it is irrelevant.

Example: a theory that bigfoot exists is provable. If bigfoot exists, it is possible to capture it or capture overwhelming evidence of its existence and use it to show people that it exists. Nobody has ever done that, so most people assume it doesn't exist. Even if it does exist, it's quite possible that nobody will ever be able to prove its existence. But, if someone were to find strong evidence in favor of the existence of bigfoot, they could formulate a theory about its existence that is provable.

Opposite example: the existence of god is not provable. You can believe in god or believe that god doesn't exist, and one will be correct and one will be incorrect, but you can never prove or disprove it. If someone were to base their theory around divine intervention, it would be a waste of time to discuss it, because it is inherently not something that could ever be proven or disproven. Therefore, it is not a theory, it is simply a belief.

You've still avoided skating the original question over why you feel it necessary to continue discussing what is provable when Google had done it for you ages ago, and why you're taking this stance when questioned why you were belittling and calling the user an idiot. The act of taking this stand as the end all be all to the discussion is completely opposite to users attempting to work through conspiracies with the rest of the class.

Are you trying to make a statement over the difference between faith and what is proven or provable?

It reads as if you're making the assumption that his theories would be belief since he had no proof, which doesn't mean that it can't be provable or worth discussing in an attempt to find proof. Which you called him an idiot for suggesting and questioning that.

Now we've wrapped ourselves in this dumbass defensive loop, notice how you completely avoid what the crux of our issue to only discuss the definition of proof over the issues raised by OP.

The crux of the issue was that he said a theory doesn't have to be provable. When I corrected him and he doubled down and got defensive and snide, I called him an idiot. I don't know what else you want me to tell you.

I wasn't arguing about any specific conspiracies, I was responding to one person being incorrect about the definition of a word.

Conspiracy will be unprovable until it is proven, and history has shown time and time again that behavior like yours there is a detriment to actually discussing theories.

People used to believe microchipping and government mind control experiments were hokey science fiction that is not provable until it slaps us in the face. So in essence I can see each of your points and his, but I don't see how this helps us in the act of actually trying to crack conspiracies.

Conspiracy will be unprovable until it is proven

Sigh...this is just not true.

I give up.

No, it is by your metric is it not? How am I misreading what you've said. You've brought up 'belief' in conspiracy as what you viewed the previous user as having compared to your view on holding fast to the proven and sticking solely in that realm and never questioning outside of it.

So Bigfoot is not proven to exist, so it is unprovable until it is proven, if ever.

You can't prove the theory of God and the afterlife, isn't that worth discussing?

multiple meaning to the word. scientific theory - you are correct.

the·o·ry

ˈTHirē/

a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained. "Darwin's theory of evolution"

a set of principles on which the practice of an activity is based. "a theory of education"

an idea used to account for a situation or justify a course of action. "my theory would be that the place has been seriously mismanaged"

So any theory is worth discussing here then, no matter how little supports it? That seems a good way to further degrade the quality of this sub.

Pro Tip: the second you see a theory posted which you feel does not warrant discussion, don't take part. It's what I do.

You don’t get how reddit works, obviously. Please don’t take that ad a personal attack, it’s just a fact.

Absolutely, it is infested with shills, pr firms, the US government, ideologues, all vying for control of the narrative. That's why when it creeps into a sub like this, a place to discuss theories, it is very easy to point out.

This an mother perfect example of the fundamental disagreement that seems to be taking place here.

Absolutely, it is infested with shills, pr firms, the US government, ideologues, all vying for control of the narrative

It’s reasonable to say that it MIGHT be or. COULD be all of those things,. However, to be so absolutely confident that it is and state it as fact is just fucking annoying and simple-minded as fuck.

It’s reasonable to say that it MIGHT be or. COULD be all of those things,. However, to be so absolutely confident that it is and state it as fact is just fucking annoying and simple-minded as fuck.

I don't truly care about your opinion, but thanks for providing it nonetheless.

Then why not write all of your thoughts in s private journal? Are you just posting here for approval? Recognition? If you truly don’t care then downvote me and move on. Some people still care about this place.

Different people post for different reasons. Personally I don't have a problem with shills. They are easily bested, and I like to perform that service in the open for others to see.

Yes, and a theory is based on the available evidence. So when a theory can instantly crumble by examining the known evidence, it can be considered false, right?

So when people say "multiple shooters! There's a light on the 4th floor!" and it's pointed out that the light is flashing before and after, it should he discarded until other evidence can support it.

I'm all for evidence that hasn't already been debunked though!

Yes, and a theory is based on the available evidence.

Available evidence is the key. Very often the evidence required to actually prove a theory is not available, especially when we are talking about an unaccountable government which lies as a matter of convenience, and uses a compartmentalized classification system in order to mitigate the damage of information getting exposed to public scrutiny. I mean heck, the land of the free has secret laws, secret courts and secret interpretations. The truth may be out there, but it is very difficult to prove given our shared reality.

One discrepancy does not topple an entire house of cards though.

People act like disproving one aspect of a conspiracy theory completely devalues a user's entire theory and post. Then the dog pile starts, the wells are poisoned, and then we will never discuss it again and any actually discrepancies within the official narrative will be discredited because conspiracy theorists we're wrong once (kinda like Reddit and the Boston bombing fiasco, a select group fucking up caused the entirety of the investigative movement to eat shit and die).

The two of you are talking about different things. What you describe is obviously problematic while what /u/PantsMcGillicuddy describes is a productive aspect of community discussions.

If someone shits on your theory by calling you stupid for believing it, then yeah, they're not good for this place and should be called out for it. If they shit on your theory politely using logically sound arguments, then you have a chance to reevaluate your thinking, adapt it where it was flawed, or provide a counter-argument when you think the critic was wrong.

The strobe light on the 4th floor of the Mandalay is a good case in point. If it weren't for a bunch of people providing arguments for why that light couldn't have been muzzle flashes, we'd be stuck trying to rationalize how they managed to replace a window in a crime scene so quickly.

Just because the mainstream is so often wrong does not mean that we are always right.

If they shit on your theory politely using logically sound arguments, then you have a chance to reevaluate your thinking, adapt it where it was flawed, or provide a counter-argument when you think the critic was wrong.

This is the discussion we seek to have.

Just because the mainstream is so often wrong does not mean that we are always right.

They aren't simply wrong often, they fabricate often, but your point stands nonetheless.

No one is saying prove your theory. They are saying justify why you have the theory. Those are two VERY different things

I have seen quite a bit of both actually. I a have also seen quite a bit of support for the official narrative without question, while simultaneously tearing down any attempt at an argument, dismissing sources without examining the info, you know, JTRIG things.

One of the biggest issues with this is in discussing the Military Industrial Complex.

Trying to justify a theory dating back to JFK is often scoffed at by most modern users who tend to be the types OP is talking about.

The people who post nonsense and the people who only exist to call them “fags” and shit and just two sides of the same retarded coin.

Yep, equally stifling discussion and interest in a conspiracy theory.

Kinda clever how they both work in unison to devalue the topic of conspiracy theories and theorist.

Productive Criticism:

• "Do you have a source for that?"

• "I have experience with x and this part of your theory doesn't seem right because y"

Non-Productive Criticism:

• "False" "You're wrong" "Incorrect" (with zero follow up)

• "What kind of an idiot would believe that?"

Completely agree. Attacking the user isn't good, though I may be a bit of a smart ass at times with my comments...

My favorite is when you take the ti,emto provide sources and they ignore them.

Or downvote when your evidence proves them wrong.

I like how your examples of bad criticism are how the majority of you "theorists" respond to your examples of legit criticism.

Judging solely on the tone in this one sentence, I'm frankly not surprised that you get that sort of response

Just this one sentence from you is an indication of why you might get responses like that. You have come here with a solid bias, solely to exercise your presumptions and prejudices. That is the opposite of what this sub is about.

How many screenshots would you like me to go around this subreddit and collect of legit questions and points being replied to with "idiot" or similar?

Try asking any of the constructive questions and see how well that goes over.

It's actually easy if you approach it without being short or dismissive with others.

Surprisingly it is all about tone here, most people realize that they are sharing a fringe idea and when they are met with anger or belittlement they'll get defensive and kickstart the backfire effect.

Most users are more primed to argue thanks to the brigades and nonsense this sub has gone through this year.

Yea I do it all the time on r/con.

Yup. 9 times out of 10 you're called a contrarian or a shill or worse.

User Provides source

Response: Fake News.

Not long ago I commented on how bullshit this Russia fear mongering has gotten. I feel like its a ruse that will be used to censor on-line media / freedom of speech. Man I got down voted into oblivion and was absolutely ridiculed.

As it turns out, I forgot that I was on r/worldnews and not r/conspiracy.

The same could be said of a lot of people who put down the positive criticism. If you say you don't agree with some bat shit theory you get called a shill. Just because a bunch of turds on 4chan made something up doesn't mean it's worthwhile to repeat it a million times here.

Productive Criticism: "Do you have a source for that?" "I have experience with x and this part of your theory doesn't seem right because y"

That doesn't work so well a lot of the time. Some people REALLY don't like what they have already internalized as Truth to be questioned.

My recommendation would be to attempt as best as you can to frame your question in a form that cannot be interpreted as an attack.

Just saying "Do you have a source for that?" alone can very easily be interpreted as an attack by many people, even though it's a perfectly valid question. In my experience, this is because it is more often an opener from someone hell bent on debunking what you have to say rather than a show of genuine interest.

Something as simple as "Fascinating. Do you have a source? I'd like verify for myself and maybe dig a little deeper." can make a world of difference in terms of the sort of response you get.

Frankly, you're right, a lot of people that come here are depressive, irritable people, and it doesn't take much to give them an excuse to get snappy. Source: myself

Happy Cake Day!!!

Thanks!

I see a whole lot of the first two that gets downvoted and people scream about because it's still questioning their narrative.

These are exactly the kind of comments that are unproductive, yes. You didn't do anything with this comment, except ask a smug question that has an obvious answer. People come to this sub to think and talk critically about these subjects, but the point he was making is that when people just come in here to say no to everything, that isn't really contributing to the discussion. It's just saying no that's unbelievable so you're wrong, in a sub meant to discuss exactly those kinds of topics.

If your theory crumbles when someone asks a question, maybe it's just a shit theory.

Maybe it is, but why piss on somebody's firework? Learn to entertain the absurd, run with the what ifs.

There have been so many people recently who come here with the view that the maisntream media narrative is the truth, and that because the media said it, that automatically gives it one million credibility points, even if what the media is saying has no evidence. For example, the one shooter or multiple shooters theory. Mainstream says one shooter, despite the footage, the many eye witness and victim accounts of multiple shooters and the scanner audio from when it was happening with police saying there were multiple shooters. For some reason this sub is now full of people who think that because the media said there's one shooter, all that evidence is nothing compared to the zero evidence and simple outright statement of a narrative by the media. Same people then spend ages trying to condescendingly tell people who are thinking about different possibilities that they are mentally ill and require a psychiatrist. It's people like that who are totally annoying, disrespectful and bringing down the quality of the sub. Critical thinking and questions and suggestions and pointing out holes in a theory is good, but that only comes from people who are actually engaging and taking it seriously, not the people who are still completely wrapped up in the mainstream lie.

I haven't seen people here saying "there was only one shooter because the media says so" but I have seen them point out that the footage (audio or video) doesn't definitively show multiple shooters, and we know from past events that police and witnesses often get confused about how many shooters there are, and in hindsight, there's very little physical evidence that supports the theory of multiple shooters, i.e. bullet holes or casings in places where they couldn't physically be, other video, ballistic, or audio evidence that is impossible to explain without multiple shooters, etc. Could there have been multiple shooters? Sure, but a reasonable evaluation of the available information combined with what we know about the relability of eyewitness statements makes the single shooter theory more plausible. Occam's razor and all that. It is possible for the official narrative to be correct , and to dismiss that possiblity is just as close-minded as to say that the official narrative is always correct.

This.

I'm not saying we shouldn't think critically and not ask questions about theories, but just because someone can't answer a question doesn't disprove the theory.

I mean, we're talking massive conspiracies carried out by powerful people with lots of money most of the time. If they didn't cover their tracks well, then it wouldn't be a conspiracy theory. It can take time to find proof.

Lol what?

Some of the "evidence" of theories are so ridiculous they need to be called out. I had someone on here convinced the shooting was directly targeted at Trump because he shot into a country music concert and "white people that listen to country music support Trump".

I can appreciate a healthy dose of doubt on topics. But way too often people connect from A to V and think it makes perfect sense.

"Some of the theories are ridiculous."

Thats what they said about JFK too.

facepalm

Unchecked pattern recognition is a mental disorder

If you hated republicans that would be the first place a shooter would go.

The quality of responses and arguments is lacking sometimes.

that's because you wouldn't believe the truth, regardless. trying to point out how people are wrong about some theories, like the 4th floor shooter is definitely productive because it's clearly wrong.

it sounds like you would rather the conspiracies run amok and all of them conflict instead of actually trying to make sense of this shit.

So my statements in this subthread https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/74fby6/las_vegas_gunshot_victim_believes_there_were/dny33xx/ informing people how they are wrong about crowd control done in a polite way with sources so they can make the determination themselves as to if I am right are not aren't productive?

What kind of issue with a theory are comments like

you people are fucking pathetic

whats the context

Concern trolls posting personal attacks against people in this sub reddit. Under what context would that be an appropriate response?

what if it was in response to victims of the attack being called crisis actors? like in the day after the attack someone posted a picture of a loved one in the hospital with blood on them and they were attacked.

I wouldnt call someone saying that people are fucking pathetic for calling victims fakers concern trolls

Don't come to this subreddit if you don't want to see that kind of material.

dont come to this subreddit if you dont want pushback

I don't mind.

Speaking for myself, I don’t lash out until they start questioning my motives.

Don’t question the motives of someone with good intentions, that is in and of itself an attack. So expect on in kind. But they don’t see they and just feel attacked. Snowflake syndrome has permeated this sub

So all theories should be accepted, encouraged and unquestioned on here?

Is that what he said? I think the main purpose of this sub is for idiot to show that they are smarter than other idiots. Like I am doing right now.

If I wanted to read about Vegas or other conspiracy's I'd lurk 4chan cuz those fags are pro's.

No one suggested theories should be accepted, but discussion should be allowed to proceed without mockery and derision designed to dissuade that discussion, I think is the point.

Well the funny thing about conspiracies is depending on what you believe, you're going to seem like a contrarian asshole or a "shill" to the other side. So when anything flat earth gets posted here, you'll see a sea of comments calling OP an idiot. When anything gets posted here about Trump, you'll get a sea of comments defending him and calling the news fake. There's a political battle going on here. We'd like to think the majority of people are here to learn and discuss theories with an open mind. But that is the furthest thing from the truth.

Well the funny thing about conspiracies is depending on what you believe, you're going to seem like a contrarian asshole or a "shill" to the other side.

It is one thing to disagree. It is something entirely different to mock, denigrate, and hold up any official explanation as gospel, especially considering how often the official explanation is found to be flawed at best.

So when anything flat earth gets posted here, you'll see a sea of comments calling OP an idiot.

I have literally been high enough in the air with the right perspective where I could actually see the curve of the earth, so to me there is no debate. Guess what, I will never go into a post on flat earth theory because it doesn't interest me, and I have no need or want to ruin someone elses' discussion, in spite of my very strong beliefs on the subject.

That tends to be the difference between a contrarian, and a shill.

Guess what, I will never go into a post on flat earth theory because it doesn't interest me, and I have no need or want to ruin someone elses' discussion, in spite of my very strong beliefs on the subject.

But what happens when you see flat earth level nonsense on something you are interested in? 80% of the stuff from the Vegas shooter in the first 2 days was derived from personal feeling or shit posted by infowars or 4chan. "Alex Jones said a false flag was happening this week!"

You should be able to call out shit that can only come from a paranoid maniacs fever dream.

80% of the stuff from the Vegas shooter in the first 2 days was derived from personal feeling or shit posted by infowars or 4chan. "Alex Jones said a false flag was happening this week!"

So what is how I respond to that? Why do you care what others are discussing. What is it to you? Some people post opinions and try to engage in discussion. Others try to sway opinions one way or the other.

You should be able to call out shit that can only come from a paranoid maniacs fever dream.

You are free to call things out, but we ask you do so in a constructive manner. You will always catch more flies with honey than vinegar, so if you goal is to win a convert, then be mindful of that fact. Suggesting someone is a paranoid maniac because they are entertaining a thought you happen to find absurd is kind of what we are talking about.

The "far flung theory" was pretty ubiquitous on this sub. Especially then all I advocated was waiting till we know more details. But yes my patience will wear thin when it's a constant barrage of "MSM shill" while I'm just trying to say your false flag theory is unsubstantiated.

Maybe there needs to be less criticism of the doubters and more criticism of the fanaticism displayed by the theorists.

The "far flung theory" was pretty ubiquitous on this sub.

I appreciate your opinion, but f you don't like it there are other subs.

Especially then all I advocated was waiting till we know more details

So wait. Feel free. Others have a right to engage now. Trying to tell others how to exercise their right to free speech is pretty much an on starter for all but the authoritarians among us.

Maybe there needs to be less criticism of the doubters and more criticism of the fanaticism displayed by the theorists.

I have no problem with doubters. Doubters are an essential element to testing a particular theory. However, when those doubters engage in JTRIG tactics then they become something else imho, something we can definitely do without.

if you don't like it there are other subs.

That’s not how a community works.

Or you could just ignore the parts you don't like. There are areas near where I live which I never travel to. Think of it that way.

Then those place aren’t a part of your community. This place is a community and everyone who chooses to post here is a part of it.

I don't agree with your opinion.

Cool. Great discussion.

i totally agree, cant people disagree with one another without becoming completely unhinged?

My theory is that Donald Trump was the real shooter. He has ties to the casino industry and access to weapons.

Discuss.

No thanks. See, it's simple and it works like a charm.

SHILLS!!!

He probably prefers Russian-made rifles though.

Isn’t that already against the rules? Let the mods do their job. This whole fucking thread is pointless.

Question them without calling people pathetic or relying on mainstream media sources. Go to /r/politics if you want to argue about stuff from a whitelist

Right. No mainstream sources. We should only be getting our information from random comments and diagrams people post on 4chan.

Feel free to go to /r/politics if you disagree.

Dude get over your feelings. People should ignore shit posts but you can’t ignore what you feel are shit comments? That’s super hypocritical

It's not a feeling, it's the rules in the sidebar.

Then let the mods do their job.

Look what the thread you are commenting in is about.

Are you replying to the right person? Your response has nothing to do with what I said. This thread is about the mods doing their job? No, it’s not.

So why are you talking about that?

Because that my solution to the problem presented by OP.

What is wrong with you dude? You have a pretty tenuous grasp on discourse.

Very true. However the source of that research shouldn’t be one’s anus.

How erudite of you.

Hold on. I’ll edit my post once I google what “erudite” means

You seem to have a tenuous grasp of discourse.

I don't think I'm smart I just think half of yall are crazy

I als questions and debate. We are all here to get to the truth, and to educate people.

We can no longer rely on the MSM to give us good information. To be informed, you have to do your own research.

Very true. However the source of that research shouldn’t be one’s anus.

Somebody else's then?

Preferably no information would come from anyone anus, regardless of who’s anus we’re talking about

I happen to have a cat with a brutally honest and informative anus.

Yup, sounds about right

You need a hare in order to go down these rabbit holes.

Your pussy is information-anal?

slow clap

Yay thanks

Frankenwennie? Is that a frankenwennie reference? Cause that cat gave me nightmares.

Would they be willing to do an AMA?

LOL.

No kidding. I entertain conspiracies casually, mostly in the pursuit of knowing all the facts about things that interest me, or trying to make sense of something that shocks or hurts me. I understand that conspiracies are theories, but a theory and misinformation are two different things. If you are going to take the time to present your theories, at least do some fucking research so you don't look like a total asshole. Even I have found the time to read all new updates, watch videos of the shooting, listen to the police scanner recording before I came in here to discuss. If you want to be taken seriously, do better dammit.

It's more about perspective, than it's about sources. Spitballing theories.

You folks are so afraid of MSM that it's back around.

What do you mean be afraid? Why trust a bunch of liars?

Right. But when someone shouts "actors", we shouldn't entertain that theory whith zero proof. Same goes tp those who say that there are 0 victims. wrong is wrong. Wrong is not a conspiracy.

Exactly. We should be skeptical of all theories. Especially those with wild speculation and zero evidence. They're worse than what the main stream puts out and makes the whole sub look like a bunch of nuts.

. Especially those with wild speculation and zero evidence.

Some might argue that something with zero evidence isn't actually a theory.

Conspiracy conjectures? Conspiracy hypotheses?

This is a theory subreddit. There are some completely ridiculous theories on here that have nothing substantial backing them up, but we should still be welcoming these people's theories.

It is better to have a community where we can share all kinds of ideas, then one where we're limited to sharing a specific perspective. If people outside of this community think we're crazy for talking about an idea that's outside of the norm, then they don't understand the word theory.

Theories are meant to be tested. You can post whatever wild ass bullshit that you want, but you can't bitch when someone comes by and shows you why you're wrong.

Also, people here have a really bad habit of presenting their theories as inevitable fact. I'd have a lot more respect for people with the intellectual honesty to phrase their theories as "What if <x>" instead of "The MSM lies, <x> is definitely what's going on", but you never see that.

From what I've seen, the what if statements get even more ridicule

This guy gets it.

We have to be able to entertain ideas without accepting them as fact right away.

Nobody said anything about not having a discussion and talking about why they're wrong.

He was implying that by people merely making posts about wack theories it makes the subreddit look bad, and I was essentially saying who cares. They have the right to post them and we have the right to comment disagreeing.

Why should r/conspiracy care about how it 'looks'? Most of its users don't.

Boom-tish.

Seriously though, this place would be better off without the bigfoot and 'ancient aliens' nonsense. But I put up with it, because there is plenty of good stuff here, too.

If they show why, great. If it's horse laugh / ad hominem fallacy shit I sneer and downvote.

You seem to be confused at what theory means yourself. It doesn't simply mean "whatever you think may have happened based on nothing". It means an idea put forward to explain something that is based on independent verifiable data points. If it is criticized and fails to stand on it's own it's not a good theory, or is a disproven one until new evidence can support it.

Learn words before trying to teach their definitions.

The definition of the word varies depending on the context in which it's being used. It's almost as if words have multiple meanings! But even if that weren't the case, Google defines theory as:

a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

It says nothing of basing it on verifiable data points. It says it tends to be based on general principals. A lot of these conspiracy theories are based on general principles that we as members of society are accustomed to and aware of. Such as greed, lying, and the power of money.

Exactly. There has to be at least one place with a wide Overton window where ideas aren't rejected out of hand.

I thought it was r/conspiracy?

Where does the theory come in?

Also, are we speaking colloquially or scientifically? I ask, because the two differ dramatically.

No need to be semantic. It’s pretty implied, especially when /r/Conspiracy envelopes all things conspiracy.

Colloquially, obviously. I shouldn’t even have to specify. Scientific theories follow completely different processes and guidelines, much like everything else in the science community.

Why should we be skeptical of all theories? I'm sort of the opposite. I don't believe most theories, but I want them to be real.

You don't have to entertain it, you could ignore it or debate it. I think OP is just saying don't be a dick to others who are in the midst of a discussion just so you can 'smell your own farts' as it was put earlier.

Anyone can taste righteous indignation when they are arguing for the mainstream narrative of events against a group of conspiracy theorist and not realize how ridiculous that crusade is. It's a whole lot easier to speak out of one's ass through a position of comfort, and comfort in knowing the 'true' facts as they've been presented is what anti-conspiracy theorists waft endlessly as concrete fact.

If your position is rock solid concrete, then what purpose is coming into a conspiracy subreddit to cause drama unless you believe that conspiracy theories are so ignorant that they must be trolled and punished for their childish behavior so that they'll learn to not question the status quo and become happy meme sharing, social media using, time wasting members of society stepping out of the way to allow the elites to run things, because why bother when I have my new iPhone X with facial recognition emojis and tinder.

That last run on sentence though.

What can I say, ramblers do what they do best. Ramble.

Some say he was born a ramblin' man

It's like saying the word is flat, out there but viable

Im sorry, what?

Why out of all possible things do you choose to list flat earth as "viable?"

I was under the impression that even THIS sub could agree that earnest flat-earthers are insane.

This sub doesn't need to agree on anything. Personally I find the idea of a flat earth to be possibly the most ridiculous theory I've ever heard of. And, in my opinion, completely non-viable.

But he has the right to believe that idea if he wants to. And seeing as this is a conspiracy theory subreddit, he should be allowed to here.

Nothing is not real, nothing is real

Also this stuff isn't harmless. People have had nutters shouting at them that their child isn't dead.

You don't have a right to play conspiracy games with dead people's families. If it was finding the truth then cool but it's picking the smallest detail to fit the agenda that it's a conspiracy.

This sub could be the birth of some bullshit that hurts real people.

People have submitted stuff that makes no sense, they haven't put any effort into it but don't mind taking someone else's tragedy and playing games with it.

People have the right to do play whatever "conspiracy games" they want. As ridiculous it is to believe nobody died, people are still allowed to entertain that theory.

Depends what you mean by "right", of course. Do they have the right to do it without being arrested by the government? Of course. Do they have the right to do it without criticism, the right to a safe space to engage in said games without anyone interrupting, complaining, or calling out their lack of justification? Nope.

This thread is pretty explicitly advocating for the latter "right", which is not a right at all. Equivocating on the meaning of the word "right" by interpreting it the former way doesn't really address the question in its proper context.

1. I meant the right to post their theories here, period. Just there mere concept of being allowed to share their ideas in this community.

2. This post is not "pretty explicitly advocating" for that at all. I suggest you reread it. He said that people shouldn't be berated. Not that they shouldn't be disagreed with or called out. Just that we shouldn't be dicks to people for considering different possibilities.

Well there's debating, and then there's being a smug prick that won't hear anything that disputes the media.

go back to teh_DoFag you fucking nazi /s

There's debating and then there is smattering your "hoax" theory all over every thread without evidence outside of "it's fake blood". The latter just seems like forum sliding or gaslighting because they know people will blow it up and that sidelines the actual thread.

To me, entertaining a theory implies research, not harassment and death threats towards grieving parents of Sandy Hook.

Can you send me the link to people harassing the parents of those victims? I must've missed that. That's pretty fucked up.

Regardless, what does that have to do with this? I never claimed making death threats = entertaining a theory. I'm talking about making a post on a subreddit sharing an idea, not harassing grieving parents.

Now these sources are from news outlets, and not pulled from someone's ass, so I'm sure this sub will consider it all fake, but...

Sandy Hook Conspiracy Theorist Gets Prison Time for Death Threats Against Parent

Sandy Hook father Leonard Pozner on death threats: ‘I never imagined I’d have to fight for my child’s legacy’

Sandy Hook to Trump: 'Help us stop conspiracy theorists'

Or just google it yourself. Around this sub, that seems to be the most common reply to requests for proof.

Thanks for providing sources, you didn't have to. Like I said, I wasn't claiming they didn't happen, I just hadn't heard about it.

Though it has nothing to do with my point, that is a pretty despicable thing to do.

Or just google it yourself. Around this sub, that seems to be the most common reply to requests for proof.

I don't think there's anything particularly wrong with doing that. But that's a debate for another time I suppose.

You assume you know the truth, eh? I was on the fence until I watched the performances in full they showed on the news. God the acting is bad. Cheif medical examiner "uhhhhh I don't know" for fifteen minutes. Pre rehearsed grief stories. Shit is suspicious. Am I going to start calling supposed parents? No, not necessary and too risky just in case I am wrong.

Right! That was the most ridiculous news conference I've ever seen. If anybody watched that and believed that guy, I have some beachfront property in Arizona to sell them.

That shady-as-hell medical examiner actually claimed at a press conference the next day that he made the decision to not allow any paramedics into the school and instead declare all the kids dead within 9 minutes, leaving all the bodies in pools of their own blood, bleeding out onto the floor and stiffening up with rigor mortis all morning, afternoon, and night so that his team could sneak them out under the cover of darkness into secret vehicles when nobody was looking at midnight. Give me a break. Paramedics would have rushed all those bodies right out onto the empty color-coordinated triage mats (they had one for deceased bodies too, ya know) and into vans and medical helicopters to rush them to the hospital--dead OR alive. That's how we handle mass shootings. Some joker doesn't get to refuse to let in paramedics. They didn't even let any parents in to see the kids and the parents (crisis actors) were perfectly cool with that. Riiiiiiiight.

Slam dunk right there. The whole thing is a joke that falls apart with an hour of study.

You're being downvoted for agreeing with a conspiracy theory in /r/conspiracy. Gee...I wonder why? Could it be a conspiracy? ;-)

Downvotes usually say more about the voter than the comment on here. Think I'm wrong? Tell me why, tough guys.

You mean those "grieving parents" who were gleefully laughing in national interviews the day after their children were supposedly slaughtered in the most heinous, scary way possible? Yeah, those are actors.

Nobody saw any dead or dying children come out of that school and it was surrounded by news crews that were broadcasting live. That shady-as-hell medical examiner actually claimed at a press conference the next day that he made the decision to not allow any paramedics into the school and instead declare all the kids dead within 9 minutes, leaving all the bodies in pools of their own blood, bleeding out onto the floor and stiffening up with rigor mortis all morning, afternoon, and night so that his team could sneak them out under the cover of darkness into secret vehicles when nobody was looking at midnight. Give me a break. Paramedics would have rushed all those bodies right out onto the empty color-coordinated triage mats (they had one for deceased bodies too, ya know) and into vans and medical helicopters to rush them to the hospital--dead OR alive. That's how we handle mass shootings. Some joker doesn't get to refuse to let in paramedics. They didn't even let any parents in to see the kids and the parents (crisis actors) were perfectly cool with that. Riiiiiiiight. If you believe any of that, you really don't belong in a sub dedicated to conspiracy theories.

Paramedics wouldn't disturb an active crime scene just to move obviously dead bodies to a black mat outside the building.

I watched the videos of the aftermath of Vegas. They were rushing around with the people who were just shot, loading them into ambulances and the backs of pickup trucks as fast as they could. There wasn't a single dead or dying person that came out of that building. The paramedics weren't even ALLOWED inside. The parents were never allowed to see their children and every one o of them were okay with that. You couldn't find one parent in a thousand that wouldn't demand to see their child, even if they were dead or shot up, yet every single one of these crisis actors were fine with it. The "parents" got their houses for free years earlier, too.

Vegas was an open air situation with thousands of bystanders but once the scene was secured, obviously dead bodies were left in situ. AMR staff technically broke the rules by even attempting to get to patients when there was still an active shooter threat. In Sandy Hook, most of the wounded were walking wounded and evacuated by police, the seriously injured were quickly taken out by police with medical training and delivered to the paramedics. There was zero reason to let non LEO go into the building when they didn't know if it was secure and by the time it was secure, the wounded were already evacuated and as I pointed out, there is no point in moving dead bodies and disrupting a crime scene.

You are proof that the one of the most awful straits a person can have is confident ignorance. I live in CT. So what you're suggesting is that "actors" moved to CT years before the incident, bought homes, pretended to have children, who were also "actors", then faked a tragic event and stayed in character to continue living and working in town. The school is in on it, the school board, the town, the outlying towns, neighbors, friends, all in on a conspiracy to do what? Take away our guns that were never taken away? This is the reason that when you people have something to add to a conversation, by default we all assume its bullshit.

No, I'm not suggesting they bought homes. They were actually given the homes for free.

not harassment and death threats towards grieving parents of Sandy Hook.

Are you suggesting that this sub has done that?

The problem is that in some proven instances it isn't ridiculous to believe that nobody died.

Have you ever heard the "babies in incubators" story from the First Gulf War. The story was that Iraqis took Kuwaiti babies out of incubators and threw them on the ground killing them. This was used as justification for the war. The problem is that no babies were killed. It was an entirely fabricated story. It even included a female actor testifying before congress and fake crying.

All proven:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=to+sell+a+war

Just watched the video, interesting stuff.

I suppose it's certainly possible. Though it seems more likely that Sandy Hook was a false flag carried out through MK Ultra rather than a hoax that never occurred. But we can't really know for sure.

Hey man, good for you for watching the video.

I post that video pretty often it seems like people rarely watch it.

I think we both agree its pretty damn interesting.

Though it seems more likely that Sandy Hook was a false flag carried out through MK Ultra rather than a hoax that never occurred.

I don't know man. I think the "parents" are actors. Again, this isn't an outrageous claim. It has been proven to occur before. Have you watched the parent interviews critically? If not, do so.

Also, some of the details on Lanza make zero sense.

For instance, he wouldn't touch door knobs because they were metal, he was so intolerant of noises that he couldn't even bare the sound of his mom walking on the floor in heels, and he was so uncoordinated that he couldn't tie his own shoes.

Those are all facts:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/17/the-reckoning

Yet we are too believe this same kid would gun to the gun range, and ultimately get the highest kill-to-injury ration in the history of mass killings? That really strains credulity.

But we can't really know for sure.

I agree we can't know for sure. The question is how reasonable is it to doubt?

Do people who've just lost a child jump to /r/conspiracy and start reading the comments?

People who read some of the ridiculous shit here and on 4chan go and shoot up pizza parlors and antagonize Sandy Hook families I believe was the implication.

We must remember that conspiracy theorists are people, and some of those people are trolls, and some of those so-called conspiracy theories are counterintelligence to make other conspiracy theories look crazy. It's the reason the term conspiracy theorist was invented.

Actually the actor who went into that pedo parlor only shot the computer. (The evidence.)

Lol

Here's the actor's IMDB page.

Exact same dude. Edgar Maddison Welch

I know his profession, and I know what you're trying to imply.

There are a LOT of unanswered questions about that event. It was obviously staged, but why? Oh yeah...because some of the most powerful pedos in the WORLD were frequent visitors to that pizza parlor. That's why.

K

We only know that he shot the computer tower. Whether or not he got the hard drive is unanswerable, but no doubt that would have been destroyed later if it wasn't shot.

shoot up pizza parlors

you mean the actor with an IMDB profile who's bullet hit the computer in Comet Pizza's back room and ruined its hard drive. Was this actor's - he was an actor - 100%-not-fake-MSM-reality inspired by /r/conspiracy. Well, well, well.

Where's the proof of the computer being shot again? Because it's my favorite piece of the pizza pie.

Second paragraph.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/alleged-gunman-tells-police-he-wanted-to-rescue-children-at-dc-pizza-shop-after-hearing-fictional-internet-accounts/2016/12/05/cb5ebabc-bae8-11e6-ac85-094a21c44abc_story.html

How do we go from "sending a bullet into a computer tower" to "ruining the hard drive"? How do we know where the bullet hit? If it did destroy a hard drive, why is this a piece of the puzzle proving that JA and friends molest children?

Was this the easiest way for JA to destroy the evidence?

I didn't say that. In fact I corrected the guy in another comment saying that we don't know that it hit the hard drive, only the tower itself. And sure it's not the easiest way to destroy evidence, but it's an efficient way to get the public to associate "pizzagate" with "crazy man shoots up family restaurant" if you're in cahoots with media, like JA is. If they've got something to hide then they're probably gonna put in effort to making sure the narrative is in their favour with the resources they have at their disposal.

Ah, I didn't notice that you're not the same person I originally responded to. The widely believed story is that this guy burst in, fired one shot through a door in order to destroy the hard drive in a desktop PC.

This is one of the leaps in logic that make me discount the story.

You're the exact kind of person this thread is about. Trying to control the narrative like this. gj

This entire post is made to control narratives.

he shot a computer hard drive. not much else.

as the other poster says, these loonies are going to act somehow anyway if they exist and there's no proof that r/conspiracy posts are responsible for their actions.

Shot a hard drive, then was released, not put on trial, and went quietly into the night. Enough to point the blame at pizzagate and shut discussion & discovery down. One guy, an actor, one shot, no repercussions. Come on now.

The people there didn’t know he wasn’t about to start the next mass killing. They were probably all terrified. It’s pretty irresponsible to minimize the seriousness of what he did.

On the flip side, it’s not fair the blame an idea for what a crazy person does with it.

we'll probably never know why he did it and who put him up to it.

The actor who shot Comet's computer tower (on the one single day that the traffic camera that faced the restaurant from outside had been removed) was not a genuine pizzagate researcher, but more likely a fall guy to help discredit the movement.

Yes, and also people whose best friend's dad has just been shot in a major event. They love this place.

'Marty, I need someone to talk to. My dad was just killed in that shooting'

'Shit, sorry dude, I've gotta hit up r/conspiracy right away! Text me the details of the funeral, I'll see you there.'

I realize you're being sarcastic but if I were someone who was personally touched by this event, I'd be desperate for any information on the why of it all, and gravitate towards places where people are talking about and right now, this subreddit is probably one of the more active places for discussion about the shooting on Reddit. Hell, I'm on the other side of the country and I'm here because I want to know the why. I would not say it's safe to assume that there are no friends or family members reading these posts.

It's a ridiculous argument that's supposed to make you feel bad. Been hearing it for years. So many Americans take the questioning of the narrative as a personal attack on themselves, as if even the craziest of us who do stupid shit make a difference towards what we're discussing. Ignorance under the guise of patriotism.

In a perfect world, everybody would be discussing these things regardless of their merit. Everyone. The atrocities of governments long before the 20th century alone should be enough to ingrain that doubt in us. Too much has been proven, admitted to, and apologized for to not question everything. There are idiots on both sides - that's a people thing, not a theorist/skeptic thing.

No, usually the conspiracy guys track them down and harass them.

Look man, i am sickened by what happened. I hate violence, just thought of one innocent life being lost is terrible, but over 60? That actually causes me pain.

I also love guns and markmanship, and this tragedy has actually made me start to doubt whether our gun laws are okay. This whole thing has really shaken me.

I say all of this so that you have some perspective when i say that anybody can talk about any conspiracy they want here. I dont know what it is like to lose a child, but today marks the 10 year anniversary of losing my dad, so i understand how it can be a touchy subject.

People died. I know it. You know it, but some are convinced there were no deaths. Its a dumb theory and there is very little backing it up, but this is the place to discuss it because above everything else we try to look at things objectively and question everything here without letting our emotions cloud judgement. Im sorry for anyone who is hurt by ignorant people who immediately claim nobody died, but we will more than likely set them straight pretty quickly, and if we cant then that would mean there is more to look at concerning that theory.

People certainly have the right to pose whatever theories they may have to this community, and the community has a right to weigh the evidence/possibilities, and react in whatever manner seems appropriate to them...whether it's laughing at the ridiculousness of the theory or giving serious criticism and offering other possible theories.

No one should be 100% certain that they know the truth behind any of the shit we see here. And no one should believe their own bullshit or the bullshit of others. Always keep in mind the possibility that you might be wrong about everything, and be open to other perspectives. The main issue I see here is dogmatism/100% certitude towards theories. It's often helpful to entertain a number of possibilities, but don't become one of those people who is CERTAIN that 9/11 was an inside job or Sandy Hook was a hoax, etc.

No one should be 100% certain that they know the truth behind any of the shit we see here.

It is a shame that epistemology is not taught as part of the standard curriculum. Of course, there is a reason for that.

Epistemology doesn't mean you should forever be skeptical of everything. You can be certain sometimes.

What are you certain of?

The sky on Earth is blue, from a human perspective.

Except when it's red... Or orange or purple or green. Changes in light, angles, temperature, humidity, etc alter differing views of what we beleive to be fact

Hehe, exactly! I was hoping someone would say something like that. Even when there's those things that seem fundamental to reality, outliers always exist. Reality is a matter of perspective, and absolutes only exist within given times and places. Nothing is really absolute. We can generalise though so there's that.

The point is that some people claim to "know" things which obviously is not justified true belief (the gold standard of knowledge).

For instance, you will often hear people claiming to know something because they were told it by media. That is not knowledge. They don't "know" that. They think they do, but they don't.

When you post a theory here, you should WANT criticism. 

Great! Here's some for you.

don't become one of those people who is CERTAIN that 9/11 was an inside job 

Planes were not what destroyed the World Trade Center. Period. It is impossible for a skyscraper to turn itself into powder and scrap metal in a matter of seconds. There is an enormous amount of energy missing from that equation. Believing that planes were what destroyed the World Trade Center is like denying that humans evolved from other life forms: you have no coherent alternative theory and you have to ignore literally all of the evidence.

You can be certain that planes were not what destroyed the World Trade Center. It's a fact.

but don't become one of those people who is CERTAIN

It all depends on how much evidence there is. It is fine to be certain of something if there is evidence to support your conclusion.

The problem is when people claim to be certain in the absence of evidence. In those instances speculating on possibilities is perfectly reasonable - certainty is not.

You love guns? What are you, 8 years old?

No, i am an avid marksman. I competed in marksmanship as a kid and have been shooting archery and rifle since i was 7. Its a hobby just like any other, and one that saved my life a few years back during a hike with my buddies.

Some people love cars, some people love art, some people love guitars, i happen to love shooting and thus i am a fan of guns.

If your need to judge me based on my interests has not been sated ill let you know that i also love wood carving, blacksmithing, knife making, training my dog, playing trumpet and magic the gathering.

Sorry mate. Being in the UK the word gun is alien to us. I apologise for being a dick to u. The LV thing has shook me up tho. Something isn't right

Being in the UK the word gun is alien to us

Hey now all those Guy Ritchie movies tell a different story

Jk

I don't know if you've travelled or experienced war. What we saw in Las Vegas is a single instance of something that becomes a fact of daily life in a war zone. 59 civilians die in a "single airstrike" in other countries.

Look, man, this shook me too. For about 3 minutes. Then I remembered traveling to places like Sarajevo where machine gun fire still traces across the fronts of office and apartment buildings. Where artillery holes adorn skyscrapers. The little flower-like scoured-out patterns in sidewalks they call "Sarajevo Roses" that mark grenade explosions. That world is what our arms hold at bay.

We are one of the oldest governments on the planet. We survived a civil war. These feats are due to the fact that we hold our government fucking accountable! They answer to We The People and if they ever refuse, they'll answer to a bullet.

Our right to self defense is how we stop another Holocaust. How we stop a Holodomir. 59 people dead is a bloody nightmare. How about 59 million dead?

Yet we live in a society in process of collapse. Warlords will multiple. Violence will metastasize. If guns are not available, it will be bombs or poison or bacteria or any number of other ways to slaughter innocents. So prepare yourself for what comes next. And for God's sake, don't give up your guns, else you're just meat for someone else's fire.

So to sum up your argument, "Ideas which can be considered offensive or hurtful shouldn't be discussed"

People should be careful, someone yesterday posted that one girl who was interviewed was also on doctor Phil. Shortly after one person came up with her full name, and another her Twitter. Then someone tweeted to her saying Reddit said she's a paid actor, is it true?

I would say that posts accusing individuals without evidence of any kind doesn't NEED to be discussed, and shouldn't be posted, especially since it will likely lead to doxxing, like yesterdays post.

It sounds more like doxxing is the issue, rather than the discussions from which its motivated.

How do you investigate whether someone is a paid actor? How do you do it without doxxing them? To me, it seems like the inevitable result. There's really nothing to talk about, if you don't know who they are and can't prove it.

I don't think I would consider it doxxing to post someone's Twitter account that's been on a TV show using their real name. It would be different if they had their identity on the show or if someone posted their phone or address.

We have the freedom to express ourselves but also an ethical obligation to do so responsibly

This exactly.

Couldn't agree more.

So to sum up your argument, "Ideas which can be considered offensive or hurtful shouldn't be discussed"

The direct opposite to what you wrote is the truth. People should discuss offensive and hurtful non-beliefs in the big-mummy Mass Media. You and your type would find that offensive, so what the fuck are you doing here?

The fact that you've misconstrued what I've inferred about the previous poster's argument to be what I actually believe is no excuse to be rude. Had you asked, I would have explained that I did so in order to point out the ridiculousness of the stance that constructive conversations should be stifled in any way. No form of meaningful discussion should ever be discouraged.

That said, do you think your general approach (as represented by your previous response) is conducive to an environment where everyone feels safe expressing their opinions? You were fine up until your last "point," whereby you do exactly what you profess to be against-- discourage the discussion of a belief that someone else (namely, you and I) find wrong or offensive. In a word, don't be an asshole.

You don't know the families exist. If they do yes it's fucked up to harass them, but if it's some kind of cover-up then we should be asking questions to protect real families.

Not saying you're wrong, but do you have examples of nutters accosting victims families? I kinda assumed it would be a thing, but never really heard any first hand accounts of it and always wondered if any sandyhook families have come forward about it. (I assume you meant sandyhook with the kids comment...) but also, I would assume neighbors and stuff would also get questioned/bothered, and then I would think there would be videos out of people validating the victims existence.... genuinely curious though.

This sub could be the birth of some bullshit that hurts real people.

Ah, the famous "what you said made me feel therefore I act because of you" argument.

If you don't own your own mind and you think others may be responsible for your own actions you are a fucking slave and you can kindly go fuck yourself. No offense intended of course.

Otherwise, you will be forced to admit your argument holds no weight, and bares no intelligence whatsoever. Whatever some lunatic does because of what someone else says or scribbles is entirely, wholly and utterly responsible (whatever his or your opinion on the subject may be).

Yes. I've never understood this argument. People are in control of their own actions, and therefore are responsible for them. The idea that someone else's words can cause you to act a certain way is idiotic. Even the concept of fighting words, if you throw the first punch: it's your fault.

It's not really an argument, it's a fallacy some filthy weasels like to throw around in order to manipulate weak minds.

"Oh look someone went to shoot a gun in a pizzeria! Stop talking about institutional child abuse!

If I saw one of those Sandy Hook crisis actors who were laughing gleefully in front of cameras the day after their little child was supposedly murdered in the most heinous and scary way possible, I'd shout at them too and call them out for being the scumbag liars they are.

It is even 1% possible for you to conceive that someone whose young child went to school and never came home because they were murdered might have some emotional reactions that seem bizarre or difficult to understand? Have you ever heard of a laugh full of sick desperation. Have you even for 1 second entertained the possibility? Have you studied any psychology to see if that’s the case?

If not then you don’t deserve to comment on something like that.

Who knows the truth. What makes you so confident that you do? If that is all the evidence that is required for you to totally abandon your sense of decency and empathy enough to be SO confident that he is lying, then you’re frankly just an irresponsible asshole. And I will HAPPILY get banned for saying so.

I have seen more videos of parents giving interviews after losing their child than any human being should ever see--because I grew with sensationalism "news." I'm old enough to have been around a number of parents who have recently lost their children. I've seen what it does to people. It takes every bit of joy out of their face and body. The one thing all those Sandy Hook parents had in common was they all were laughing joyfully during interviews, may of them literally the very next day after their child was supposedly murdered in the scariest, most heinous way. If that were normal, I wouldn't have said anything about it, but I happen to know it isn't normal because I've seen grieving parents hundreds of times. Besides that, nobody saw any dead or dying children. In fact there were only a small handful of children (1 classroom's worth at the most) ever to be seen anywhere near that place that day. I was watching live along with everyone else. Sandy Hook was a Hoax.

There are way too many variable to make your anecdotal experiences as relevant as you think they are.

Most people don’t want to or expect to see photos of dead children.

I got an A in my acting for the camera class in college and the technique Robbie Parker used to muster up fake tears the day after his daughter was supposedly murdered is taught in acting classes all over the nation.

It's perfectly fine to come here and shout "ACTORS!" That is kinda what this sub is about. This isn't a news sub or a politics sub. It's a conspiracy sub. It's a place to come and bounce around conspiracy theories that may or may not have any basis in fact.

You're right, it's not harmless. But here? It's expected. The folks shutting it down are (in my opinion) gravely mistaken in their intentions.

If someone is shouting "ACTORS!" in pretty much any other sub, sure, hit 'em. In this sub? Shut up and read and maybe learn something new.

You don't have a right to play conspiracy games with dead people's families.

Of course we do? We have the right to think and discuss whatever tf we please.

Exactly. I'm not here to just come up with theories if they have no evidence/make no sense.

I'm here to get to the truth. That's why most of us are here.

You sound kind of anti first amendment to me telling others what they can and can't do with their first amendment

The first amendment prohibits the government from making laws restricting free speech, free press, and free peaceful assembly.

So, telling someone they should STFU about something isn’t really a first amendment issue.

But when someone shouts "actors", we shouldn't entertain that theory whith zero proof.

Who?

Who came in here and said "actors" with no proof? Show me the post. Oh wait, you can't, because you made all of this up to poison the well.

And your one hour old comment has way more upvotes than older, better comments.

Day one after the shooting there were multiple posts about 'actors' using a vague CL post from a month or two ago.

Still haven't shown a single example.

Just keep sticking your head in the sand. Now that there are multiple fucking examples, what do you have to say?

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/73tkjq/here_come_the_dopey_crisis_actors/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/73t465/las_vegas_false_flag_craigslist_ad_for_crisis/

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/74apy0/mirrored_confirmed_crisis_actor_las_vegas/

Ah, the silence of someone who is beaten yet too small to admit it. Nothing else should be expected from /u/AlexJonesRant.

Hahaha you were wrong

Wow, you really can't even do the tiniest bit of research before making a comment?

we shouldn't entertain that theory whith zero proof.

What is the definition of "theory" in your opinion? Or hypothesis?

Furthermore no educated speculation can ever be definitely proven, only falsified. Therefore asking "for proof" without even trying to offer a refutation is intellectually dishonest and the mark of a lesser mind.

People died and whomever denies that has something seriously wrong with them or they are just a troll.

Yes and people who deny stuff are horrible, just as bad as the murderers themselves. Indeed getting offended in some cases has been proven to cause leperacy.

People died? Oh? At Sandy Hook? Did you see any bodies? Because I was watching all day long as news crews surrounded the building and broadcast live. Not a single dead or dying child came out of that building. In fact, there were only a handful of children to be seen anywhere. I watched a medical examiner tell us the day afterwards that he made the decision to not allow any paramedics into the school and instead declare all the kids dead within 9 minutes, leaving all the bodies in pools of their own blood, bleeding out onto the floor and stiffening up with rigor mortis all morning, afternoon, and night so that his team could sneak them out under the cover of darkness into secret vehicles when nobody was looking at midnight. Give me a break. Paramedics would have rushed all those bodies right out onto the empty color-coordinated triage mats (they had one for deceased bodies too, ya know) and into vans and medical helicopters to rush them to the hospital--dead OR alive.

Sorry - you think paramedics would "rush dead people around"?

Sorry - you think someone gets to just declare two-dozen children deceased with the waive of their hand, refuse to allow in any paramedics, and then leave the bodies lying in pools of blood all day?

What is the definition of "theory" in your opinion? Or hypothesis? Conjecture?

Excellent question. Words like 'evidence' and 'proof' are thrown around here by people who clearly have no conceptual framework by which to scrutinise these sorts of things.

You can provide evidence which supports your theory. You can tell from the context of his reply that he is misusing the term proof when he means evidence. A common mistake. You think you’re being superior intellectually but in reality you’re jsut being pedantic.

Many of us are arguing that you have a responsibility to assess the value/credibility of the information you use to formulate an opinion about something. If you disagree with that then I don’t know what to tell you.

I would agree with you, however it is not uncommon for people/tourists around here to respond to evidence-supported educated hypotheses with condescending requests for "proof".

Hence my answer.

In my experience the probability of this happening is proportional to two dependent variables: 1) the validity of the evidence and 2) the "identity parameter" it entails. This is explained by cognitive dissonance, as I tried to illustrate here.

You are pushing a strawman argument here. Only a handful of loons believe nobody was killed. Everyone should be aware that this is a tactic used to discredit conspiracy communities.

No, you should move along /s

there was evidence of crisis actors being hired for LV recently. the videos speak for themselves. questioning the veracity of victim reports on this sub has proven to hurt no-one.

Ok no conspiracies that might offend anyone, got it. Let's post pics of cats.

If this sub wants to discuss conspiracys, they should accept that it might not be an actual conspiracy. "If all you have is a hammer, everything becomes a nail"

If it was the occasional thread that would be easy. It’s the majority of shit on here now.

The love of the self is enmity with God.

"Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; No man comes to the Father except by me."

Take it to him in prayer, but the collective delusion is crumbling. Aliens are Demons/Fallen Angels. Jesus Christ is GOD. https://youtu.be/MfMToJo_m74

Revelation 12 Matthew 24 Luke 14 Ezekiel 38,39

Did you know it's actually healthy to smell farts, and there's a biological reason why you enjoy sniffing yours? Look it up.

Some people only come to this sub to be contrarians and to support the mainstream narrative.

And some of them work for the US government.

Right, because people who think they see the "truth" that sheeple can't are never smug. They are clearly more humble than people who disagree with them.

Why shouldn't discussion of a conspiracy include reasons why the conspiracy doesn't make sense?

This. The whole point of conspiracies is not to further develop an ideology, it's to find TRUTH. If you are strictly interested in running a nonstop counternarrative, you're just as much a sheep as the people who take /r/politics at face value.

Except when you question the conspiracy you get threads like the OP where we are told not to do that or bashed and called a shill

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/topmindsofreddit] It's contrarian not drinking the coolaid and wear the tinfoil hat according to TopMind

^{If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)}

but you can tell they feel so smart and smug when they do it.

irony can't melt steel beams.

"I came here for interesting theories, not to see another t_d thread"

"Wow this sub is really going down hill."

I see so many people come here just to comment on threads and ridicule anyone that questions any part of the MSM narrative. It's frightening that people can't ask questions here without being verbally assaulted or labeled as someone from the t_d. Fuck these people.

The converse statement is "Conspiracy theory proponents feel smart and smug when they disagree with the mainstream narrative".

I know not, still. What you do?

I have to say, I do like the smell of my own farts.

I have to ask what exactly you mean by quibbling and mocking.

Mocking should be clear, but I think a bealthy discussion can't be bad. As long as the guy that doesn't agree doesn't try to take a position of absolute rightness.

Guy A: I think that X did F

Guy B: but how can that be if X was D and E? I don't think it's likely to be that way.

A: X was D, but probably isn't reall E, because (...)

B: Hmm yeah I think it makes sense that way -> discussion ends or Really? I'm pretty sure he's E because (...) -> would cause the discussion to go on.

You don't even know what contrarians means.

You nailed it. A bunch of angry fucks on here just waiting to be contrarian

Everyone likes their own brand

Well said!

Agreed 100%. If a user is in here blasting opinions and telling others what is and what isn't okay to question, you should probably ask yourself what motivates said user.

Have some Spezzit Silver. This is the top comment that should be mandatory reading for new commenters.

i thought we all liked the smell of our own farts ?

My thoughts exactly

I think this particular shooting is so over the top and clearly so many elements that scream conspiracy that normies half believe the conspiracies.

They however are experiencing dramatic cognitive dissonance so they smugly talk smack because at this point they are trying to convince themselves.

The last couple years have basically confirmed the basics or conspiracy theories.

The normies want to believe in their fantasyland where the government hasn't been for years a globalist regime hellbent on world domination.

They keep the illusion alive by pretending they always thought it was obvious when a conspiracy theory comes true.

Oh nsa is watching everyone haha well duh but like if you have nothing to hide.....

Meanwhile 10 years ago they would have said okay tinfoil hatter im sure the government can store that much data or cares haha what a dunce.

so much of it is basically "this is so sinister and alien to me, if i entertained the idea genuinely, it would shake me to my core, and so therefore, it is false."

For the most part I try exactly this. I also, when I post my own theory, say something like “I could be way off but...” and then say it. Still get some backlash for it tho.

I will also admit, I have been a subscriber here for a few weeks now. Just never really been too much into some of the stuff I see or had anything worth personal concern over (like my beliefs of other theories, etc), so there was really no point for me to be here and comment.

Yea like yours that is one month old...

Truth. Mic drop.

Except when the theory is retarded and makes the community look bad. That's a real conspiracy - one to inject fake conspiracy theories to make the ones with some truth to them look bad.

May we agree to disagree?

True. But it's also fair game to question a conspiracy or poke holes in it respectfully. It's not /r/nuttertown. Conspiracies based on real circumstantial evidence and plausible motives are all over the place. Conspiracies with no evidence you though of in the bathroom about Obama being a vampire... sure post them I don't care. But people still need to be able to ask whether there's any objective basis to the theory.

Discussing a theory is not just about fellating the author. Frankly a lot of the people complaining about brigading are whining that not enough people support their Obama Vampire Theory.

It doesn't even look like you spend time here. You realize that there are 500k members of this sub, right?

Also, if you can find an upvoted "Obama is a Vampire" thread to bolster your comment, that would be helpful. Until then, your comment sounds like bullshit.

Do you honestly not understand how hyperbole and figurative language are used in English? Because I thought it was pretty clear I wasn't using the term Obama Vampire Theorists in a literal sense.

Oh, gotcha. So your comment was just hyperbolic bullshit. I thought so.

You still don't seem to be understanding how the English language works. Words convey meaning. Sometimes you use them to convey meaning beyond their literal meaning. So you use figurative speech, hyperbole, metaphors, or allegories etc. Doing so and trying to pass off such a statement as literally true would be lying. Doing so in a manner designed to make clear the figurative meaning, such as if someone said something sarcastically but with a tone that conveys sarcasm, is just called speaking in English.

Did you miss that I was speaking figuratively or not? Because if you did miss it then that's a whole different barrel of fish. And if you didn't miss my actual meaning, which seems more likely, asking for a literal Obama Vampire Theory post would be a deliberately combative and misleading way to try to frame a response I think. One in line with your choice to immediately devolve into vitriol and name calling.

In any event, the topic calls for tolerance of conspiracies and understanding of what this sub is about. I was trying to state my opinion that I agree, but supporting respectful questioning of a theory, or disagreement, must also be encouraged. Disagreement and requests for sources on topics is part of the process of fact finding. It is contributing to the search for knowledge and how bad information is winnowed out. If people don't support that process and instead call downvoting or questioning a theory brigading/disrespect then this place will devolved into /r/conspiracyshowerthoughts.

(obviously to some extend disrespect/brigading does occur...where could we find someone disrespectful I wonder?... but usually when I see the terms used around here it's because people are upset not everyone agrees with them).

I know they didn't reply, and it's probably because they realized they look like a fool. But I wanted to comment that I thought it was really nice that you took the time to explain, even though they talked like they are 14.

Dude it was very obvious what you meant. Hopefully he is just being obtuse

Can you provide a concrete example of what you making a metaphor about vampires for? Where is someone complaining about anything other than the constant barrage of misinterpretations, straw man arguments and concern trolling?

Sure, I will respond to this before I go to bed tonight. I don't have time to read through more threads at the moment.

I highly doubt it. It seems to me you are just trying to slide this forum without any real evidence.

I highly doubt it. It seems to me you are just trying to slide this forum without any real evidence.

So again, you call into question the motives of someone with no reason to do so. That is A PERSONAL ATTACK.

How have you not been banned yet?

Sorry. So do you have any evidence?

They made a great point, all the responses I see you make are extremely volatile and attacking. Do realize, they can and will ban you for that, and at the point I hope they do. Learn how to talk civilly.

I'm sorry, I don't consider pointing out that calling people retards and quoting an MSM source is not suitable for this sub reddit to be an attack on any particular individual.

Why are you defending that behaviour?

Except that that isn't what the person you replied to said, or the person before that. You attacked the person, and regardless of anything else, you need to recognize that's against rule 4/10, no matter what you claim to be defending.

Where did I attack anyone? I promise in never intended to.

So what's a good source for you?

I don't judge content based on the source. It's fine to cite the MSM, just as long as you don't use that as an excuse to call anonymous strangers on the internet names.

Refutation links are fine, just focus on the argument not on shaming people for having creative ideas.

Great. And I have no problem with that. Respectful but diligent questioning is exactly what should be encouraged. (Joe Rogan is a great example of someone who questions and disagree with many of his guests, but does so in a way that allows people to continue discussing the issue and learning from each other.) (Also please forgive formatting issues I have no idea what this post will look like.)

I'm not sure what would be sliding (I assume this means scamming or something similar?) the sub-reddit given my only real point is that real feedback from real people, as long as it’s respectful, needs to be encouraged. And sometimes that feedback is going to be negative in the sense that it questions the op or asks for sources and that is a good thing. That is how learning happens. Nobody learns anything in a room full of people who agree. This is true regardless of the brigading comment so I kind of regret including that comment though I do stand by it. (and support it below).

The other thing I want to point out is that the drama surrounding this sub-reddit’s temporary swap to contest mode is 100% part of the issue I am talking about. It is an attempt to equalize the validity of comments regardless of any support they have and allow weak positions to avoid answering obvious questions. I believe it is a perfect example of some members of this community trying to hide from mostly real feedback by pretending it is fake for their own ego’s sake. (They want to assume people criticizing them are not be real for obvious psychological reasons).

You can see certain mods admit they have taken actions to stop brigading because they “feel” like it is appropriate. Not because of evidence. What posts do they feel this way about? I bet it’s whichever ones disagree with them. (There’s more discussion to read about on this topic out there but this is a start, https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/6spwi9/another_day_another_drama_at_rconspiracy_about/ )

Anyway, here are some low hanging fruit examples of people claiming brigading just because they’re told they’re wrong that were easy to find and relatively recent. A lot of this takes place in comments and I’m not sure if there’s an easy way to look through those as opposed to title searches, but here’s a quick title search:

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6th4wf/rmusic_is_currently_being_brigaded_every_top_post/ (He doesn’t like the music being upvoted on rmusic so…. Must be antifa brigading.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6u4gh4/mods_help_conspiracy_is_being_brigaded_like_crazy/ (Subreddit is being brigaded because new posts, apparently largely his, are downvoted).

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6q1n3t/brigaded_on_legal_advice_asking_about_illuminati/ (Thinks down votes mean illuminati are brigading his posts about them).

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/6oupcb/are_the_mods_going_to_do_anything_about_the/ (Thread started to argue about this topic in the comments. There are more. This has been a super common thing to discuss over the last year so I’m surprised you haven’t seen it even if you disagree with it.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/5ybxog/cia_threads_now_filled_with_rpolitics_shills/ (people should be banned if they say something nice about the CIA. Calling someone a shill is the same as saying they’re brigading you for my purposes. IE. claiming someone’s opinion is not legitimate based on mere disagreement.)

On a final note, I would just say I absolutely do believe there are paid shills on social media. Brigading does happen. But it is important not to jump to that conclusion about someone just because they disagree with you because once it’s said the conversation is over. Many shills are probably paid to do just that, prevent meaningful conversation between disparate groups.

But it's also fair game to question a conspiracy or poke holes in it respectfully.

Absolutely.

If the theory is worth thinking about or discussing, it should hold up under scrutiny.

Otherwise this just becomes /r/'whatever I imagined or made up just now'

Amen

fair enough, but can we logic test the theories

isnt that the whole point of discussing them with other people?

yeah but complaining about pushback seems to be resisting. if we all just go around saying 'great theory, lets put it on the sidebar' we become a t_d or r/wikileaks esque circle jerk

Well, t_d was designed to be a circle jerk so that's sort of a given. It's not just casual pushback we're talking about, it's dozens of users derailing threads with nothing but insults. The people that comment with inane slights that do nothing to criticize the op other than to call him stupid. That happens too often around here

It's not just casual pushback we're talking about, it's dozens of users derailing threads with nothing but insults. The people that comment with inane slights that do nothing to criticize the op other than to call him stupid.

Do you think that it's possible that selection bias is colouring your view of the situation? I ask because, while I have seen people use random ad hominem attacks and pejoratives, I've not really seen that frequently. If you're referring to personal attacks and shill accusations without addressing a single point in a post, then I could see where you're coming from.

The reason that I differentiate between the two examples is that usually those who take issue with people asking them for evidence of a claim seem to take that as a personal attack. Ironically, they're often the ones who're quick to ignore information and call a user a shill.

Basically anytime that a user simply used labels and ad hominems without actually addressing the content

Something that typically gets downvoted. Yet here it gets upvoted. This pisses folks off even more. Comments that directly bash the users and the sub gets massive upvotes.

Obviously we’re not allowed to do that because paranoid people take it as ridicule and shilling

there no more humorless sub than r/conspiracy

Laugh at yourself, not other people.

i want everyone to laugh at me

LOL!

I'm always surprised when I see someone crack the occasional joke on this subreddit

/r/holdmyfries is for the laughs

Mainstream media is part of the conspiracy, no?

Yeah, pushing their unsubstantiated fake news talking points like "he was a lone wolf" and then calling anyone who disagrees a moron is better suited for /r/politics

I almost caught aids just from looking in that shit hole r/politics

Where is your proof that these are theories? (/s)

I enjoy this sub because I'm naturally skeptical which means I'm skeptical of everything posted here as well. I think a lot of people new to the sub see people asking questions and instead of viewing it as a discussion they view it as what the rest of reddit is, a circle jerk, and assume that everyone here has their mind made up. That's not, from what I've seen, what this sub is about.

If you can be skeptical without making personal attacks and calling people morons or purposely misinterpreting their comments and concern trolling then you are welcome

If you can be skeptical without making personal attacks and calling people morons or purposely misinterpreting their comments and concern trolling then you are welcome

If you can be skeptical without making personal attacks and calling people morons or purposely misinterpreting their comments and concern trolling then you are welcome

Your turning this place into an echo chamber.

No, I'm asking people not to make personal attacks or call each other retards.

No your comment was there twice.

Reddit's website does that to me a lot. meh.

I don't post in threads that are politically polarizing because disagreeing with someone and arguing isn't going to change anyone's mind. There are things on here I'm interested in and fighting isn't one of them.

The point isn't to convince the person posting, the point is to convince other people reading.

Fair enough. Using the Russian Collusion as an example, I think pretty much every argument for and against have already been made and people are firmly in their camp. I know that's not the only political debate going on on this sub but I'd say it makes up a large percentage of it.

My biggest problem with this subreddit is that some people seem to think that everything published in "mainstream media" must be incorrect.

Look at different sources and make up your own mind and stay sceptical.

Not everything you read is correct but everything isn't wrong either.

I feel the same way. It's nice to workout your brain and entertain more than one possibility. My debate class had us debate one thing one way (pro life) and then the other way (pro choice). Helps you get a grasp on the reasoning of the other side.

I hate to read some subreddit's and I hate some people on youtube but I sometimes listen and read that anyway to try to look at things from a different perspective.

Sometimes I have realized that I am wrong and even if it hurts it's good in the long run.

It is pretty frustrating to read some things I agree so I try to not even engage in whatever it is that's frustrating to me. It's easier to talk in person though with someone you may disagree with because I think most wouldn't resort to calling someone an idiot or whatever to their face and kind of manage their tone.

I wonder if conspiracy theorists are more in the habit of looking at things from a different perspective in general. Maybe conspiracy theory is just the result of a willingness to consider different perspectives.

Now that would be an interesting study.

My debate class had us debate one thing one way (pro life) and then the other way (pro choice). Helps you get a grasp on the reasoning of the other side.

Yup, I learned the same way. I loved it! If I can't argue a subject from more than one perspective then I've not done my due diligence.

Taking the time to consider how the other person came to their conclusion is an important part of debate, and communication as an adult. That was a good lesson.

One thing that's hard in debates is when the opposing argument is rooted into the person's morality and their view of the world. That's not something easy to persuade someone from. And it's an exercise in futility to try. For example, the prolife/prochoice debate : pro life people literally view abortion as murder. End of story. It'd be hard to justify murder to anybody. That was one of my biggest concession/rebuttal issues. I think that's why it's like a debate 101 topic.

Never argue with someone that can't argue in favor of your position.

My debate instructor found a topic we were all passionate about and let us go to town. Then he said "Now all change position. "

Winning the opposing argument is really eye opening

objective news only happens when it has no political value

Viewing a discussion or even outright passionate argument have changed my mind many times. That’s why I fucking come on Reddit to begin with, not to stroke myself off and feel validated, but to LEARN THE TRUTH

+1

And to you

It's isn't even about being right or wrong. It's about thinking in ways you haven't before. Entertaining a different viewpoint. Keep the right wrong in partisan politics where it belongs. Nobody wants that shit here.

It's about thinking in ways you haven't before

Not necessarily. Maybe for you, but I disagree that that is the point of this sub. Some people actually believe things they post here, with conviction. They aren’t just here to exercise their brain.

Keep the right/wrong in partisan politics where it belongs. Nobody wants that shit here.

Aside from the fact that in a lot of the shit threads I see, political bias is clearly the reason why illogical conclusion are jumped to, you really need to speak for yourself.

You’re basically saying that the concept of truth, of right and wrong, is inherently political. I think that’s ridiculous.

I'm sorry, but some people here deserve the berating they get.

"But... what if... it wasn't a conspiracy?"

Then don't come to this sub and stick with CNN.

right? they sure have a sub called "notconspiracy" or something... (and for people downvoting me... it's called satire, but whatever.)

hence, the quotations and the dramatic pauses

sure. but I'm going to invalidate the crazy. Maybe you guys should clean up house

How should this community discuss my theory that Donald Trump was the real shooter, not Paddock? I believe Trump did it in an effort to end legalized gambling in Las Vegas, which would result in more tourists using Trump’s casinos in Atlantic City. (We can see the MSM and FBI playing along, with story after story on how “Paddock”’s addiction to Video Poker caused him to snap.) He also wanted to punish Nevada senator Dean Heller for not supporting Trump on the healthcare bill. (Trump had access to the guns thanks to the Secret Service; he acquired his proficiency with them during his time at West Point.)

That’s my theory. How should it be discussed on this subreddit?

This sub is T_D 2.0 ^/s

In reality you are not too far from the truth.

it's good to say that before someone says it seriously first, takes away their smug bite.

What the other guy said but unironically.

Uh oh, criticizing Papa Trump in /r/conspiracy. That's a paddlin.

Yea, just ignore how heavily upvoted it is. Also ignore how much flack anyone gets for bringing up Clinton ever.

It's part of how they operate. Old but still gold, look up the COINTELPRO guide to forum sliding. Still followed to this day, whether or not it's actually done by govt anymore.

It should be discussed exactly as you just discussed it. While I'm not entirely convinced of your theory (No offense - I can't tell if it's a joke or not), you laid out your reasons for believing it clearly.

Currently there's no way to no for sure whether your theory is true or not, so I'll entertain it in moving forward as more information is unveiled to determine whether there's any substance to it.

Thanks for sharing.

He's obviously presenting a hypothetical that highlights the biases on this sub and the underlying implication of OPs grievances.

Entertaining theories like that would be silly and turn this sub into a joke, which is the logical end of OPs ideal version of this community.

Ah, I figured he wasn't serious. Hard to tell these days.

Even so, I disagree. There's no harm in entertaining such theories, so long as it's just something you muse on internally. I'll take people thinking this place is a silly over not being able to share "silly" ideas any day. Even if I believe many of the ideas are admittedly ridiculous.

I think the scary part is that some of the theories seem so ridiculous at first glance, and that's what makes them so easily covered up.

I didn't believe for a second that Trump was behind the shooting, but I did consider it once I read his post. And I'm no worse off for it.

You don't seem like a dumb person, surely you didn't entertain that Trump would get up there and pull the trigger himseif? Being open minded is one thing, but some things don't deserve it, we don't have to pay those any serious thought.

Of course not. The way I understood it was that he was claiming he orchestrated it. Not that he physically performed the act. Which by the way I still never believed (and I figured he was kidding).

Though again, I have to disagree. Even theories as ridiculous as flat-earth deserve some thought. Because it's not until you've seriously considered the argument being made that you can say it's false.

No it's not, and I don't see how so many people can't seem to understand what he posted. OP wants to see an end to people piling into threads to regurgitate the MSM account of events, or to attempt to shoot down the thread while offering no real criticism of the theory or only offering personal attacks.

The fact that you can't tell if it is a joke or not say a lot about this sub.

I don't disagree. No harm no foul though, right?

There are a lot of posts on this sub that are difficult to take seriously, but I try to keep an open mind for at least 30 seconds before laughing internally and moving on.

Also, for the record, I did it take it as Trump actually pulled the trigger. I assumed he meant that he just arranged it.

Its obviously a satirical comment. If you think there's even a 1% chance he's serious then i have a whatever to sell you.

Who said everything has to be discussed? If you don’t like a topic, downvote and move on.

Doesn't that amount to that no discourse should be had and instead the sub just votes on what they want to be true? Because that sounds terrible to me.

It’s quite simple. Discourse is great if you have something to say that adds to the conversation. However, if you just feel the need to belittle someone or their ideas, then it’s usually best to simply hit the downvote button

That's different to what you said.

Who said everything has to be discussed?

Could you elaborate on how what I said is contradictory?

Yeah, sure.

Who said everything has to be discussed? If you don’t like a topic, downvote and move on.

It’s quite simple. Discourse is great if you have something to say that adds to the conversation. However, if you just feel the need to belittle someone or their ideas, then it’s usually best to simply hit the downvote button

There's absolutely room for when you don't like a topic but have something to add to the conversation that isn't just belittling someone. Just like many of the posts in this thread, even.

There's absolutely room for when you don't like a topic but have something to add to the conversation that isn't just belittling someone.

Can you point out where I actually made this claim?

You're really getting into semantics here, while I think it's pretty clear the original angle you were coming from. Why do you think that topics you disagree with don't warrant discussion? Surely opposing viewpoints are valuable?

Is it semantics or are you just trying to put words into my mouth? Regardless, my original comments weren't cryptic, and I trust most other users here have no trouble understanding what I said. Take care

I'm not putting words into your mouth, dude.

Who said everything has to be discussed? If you don’t like a topic, downvote and move on.

This is gold worthy.

Pieces of shit go to a party, be a complete dick to everyone, then go home and say "that party was full of pieces of shit dick-heads".

That's you.

You have turned up with a /u/davoarid is a stupid piece of shit oh ha ha ha and then tried, and failed. to turn that into /r/conspiracy is stupid.

EDIT 1: Of course the shills downvote this.

you are the shill, mocking anyone who questions the quickly collapsing MSM narrative.

And know the difference between a theory, hypothesis, conjecture, and wild ass guess.

I was literally just thinking this! It is sad how far downhill this sub went in the last 2 months. A flood of new users from 4chan and R/politics wanna come in and spout off partisan bullshit all the time. Really making me want to unsub. I love a difference of cultures and opinions but quit trying to shove your politics down my throat.

What about tm sub they literally had a sticky of them brigading and then someone tried to link it to pizzagate and all that disappeared.

More like Trump fanboys polluting this sub since the election.

Yes that's exactly what I was talking about the Dems have caused trouble too though, I'm independent and don't really give after just keep the politics out of it and discuss the facts guys. It's not hard, but it does feel like we are being brigaded by alt right bullshit.

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

• [/r/topmindsofreddit] Top Mind asks users to respect /r/Conspiracy by questioning nothing and creating a positive feedback loop.

^{If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads. (Info / Contact)}

Why is this sub stalking us? Do they have nothing better to do?

They're a bunch of smug losers with nothing else better to do with their time.

Nope, they live off percieved mental superiority over a group of fringe weirdos who talk about conspiracies.

They started up this year, if that gives any indication to the type of bullshit this sub has had to put up with this year.

Share the same users of subs that brigade here often like /r/politics and the 50 or so anti-Trump spam subs.

When was Totes allowed back in?

We should easily dismiss the noise though, or we'll get overwhelmed with nonsense.

I approach CT rationally. I want to investigate and see/hear as much for myself as possible. Always looking for that smoking gun (no pun) that is undeniable. That I can't rationalize away. That I can't use logic and common sense to dismiss.

Since this event... So much noise has emerged. So much easily dismissed nonsense that doesn't need to be explored because it is easily debunked yet...

Half the world wants to focus on the noise instead of continuing to look for real evidence. We have a cyclical effect going on where we spend a few hours hashing out a theory in a popular thread only to have a new crowd pile in the next day after seeing a youtube vid and pronouncing the very theory we've already debunked.

Now you come in trying to paint us as shills and patronizing. We are neither. We are trying to sort through the BS to get real evidence. This is only harder if we have to continually re hash the same BS every few hours.

So kindly GTFO with you concern trolling. We're busy figuring out what really happened.

Thank you for articulating what I was trying to say far better than I did.

Just out of sheer curiosity, which CT's do you actually subscribe to/believe in?

Crustal displacement & Pole shifts.

Rockefeller plan

Sandy Hoax

Just for the record, there are without a doubt tons of "shills" on this website and many others.

Take a look at this research paper titled: "Containment Control for a Social Network with State-Dependent Connectivity" written by the research lab at Eglin Airforce Base.

Then look at these reddit statistics: The "most addicted city" with over 100k views total, out of all the cities, is Eglin Airforce Base.

As far as I'm concerned there isn't a MSM narrative, but only support to completely suppress anything suggesting some sort of cover-up or planned attack, which, at this point, wouldn't be too surprising given the bizarre nature of info being shared.

“Don’t question things I believe”

You realize what you’re saying right?

Good post, these reminders are always pertinent durring such event's. upvote

I see a lot of times when an alternative theory to the official story is posted, and someone pokes holes in it, people attack them with arguments that seem to automatically assume the hole poker is on board with the official story. They get called shills and all sorts of stuff.

I'm a skeptic. If something doesn't make sense to me I'll question it or point out the flaw if I know (or think I know) something is wrong. That does not mean I believe or don't believe the official story. It just means I'm asking a question about a theory or pointing something out that is wrong with that particular theory. Simple as that. Yet sometimes I'll get attacked for that.

I think it is extremely biased, and close-minded, to ignore official stories that come from the MSM. I have no problem with people attacking the story from the MSM and making arguments that counter the story, but when I see people like the OP here who immediately dismiss MSM stories just because or try to say this is not the place for MSM I have to shake my head. Often it seems like to me that people reject MSM stories like this just do it because it doesn't fit whatever narrative they believe in.

TLDR: I feel people like the OP just want to censor what people see in this sub to only stuff they want to see. I think that is stupid.

Sure you do, pal. I'm on to you and your conspiracy of hiding what r/conspiracy is really about.

sorry you're Wong. because it's a conspiracy page does not preclude evidence or facts. I think we should be open to ideas but let's let everyone's view of us deteriorate more as we spew nonsense

Guess who's the ones saying the facts? The state and the media. How can you with an honest face say that we should be trusting in whatever official narrative the media or the state tries to say?

What about the conspiracy that there are no conspiracies?

sorry you're Wong.

What does me being Asian have to do with it?

Spoiler alert: I’m not Asian

"NUHUH, MY OPINION IS RIGHT" lmao. Shut uppppp

Forget any conspiracy that puts Trump as the victim or in good light. They’ll argue with you that T_D followers are just as active, as some kind of justification.

Basically, allow people to spread disinformation the same way the MSM does and don't question it? You just want sheep then?

If they're opinions presented as facts they should be called out as such. An opinion presented as an opinion can never be disinformation

Very well put, thank you.

This sub is a fucking shit-show. Of course the mainstream narrative is going to be defended by the majority of people. That's why it's "mainstream" I actually have no problem with that. What bothers me more is there are clearly people here, call them shills, or whatever you want to call them. Their goal is to derail certain threads within a topic. If a thread is actually going somewhere all of a sudden a comment will appear that makes no sense at all or is a personal attack or whatever, suddenly a brigade arrives and this comment has 30 upvotes and subcomments. What was being discussed is now basically covered up. I've been seeing this in r/conspiracy for a long time but with this incident especially it's very blatant.

Absolutely correct.

I do not personally endorse most of what is discussed on this subreddit, yet you never see me comment arguing against such conversation.

If we shut down the right to converse about such things then we become the opposite of what we as a nation stand for.

Pointing out that one would be foolish to believe something IS discussing it. You are free to post what you want and we are free to ridicule you for posting ridiculous things. thats how freedom works

Unacceptable. Anyone who thinks different from me is a racist.

lol

Boring shallow minded drivel

Show me in the rules where it says you have to post anything about conspiracies.

You need a rule to tell you that posts in r/Conspiracy should be about conspiracies? Like for reals?

And yet we needed this thread to tell people the same, so the answer is obvious. Don't know how much you lurk this sub, but people have been asking for a rule where OP has to point out the conspiracy for a long time. Or maybe I'm the only one sick of a front page full of mainstream articles you'd find on /r/politics or /r/The_Donald.

honestly i disagree with 90% of the shit here. but it's interesting what other people believe.

If we don’t hold ourselves to a higher standard of what constitutes a theory, it actually what makes us vulnerable to being coopted.

Too late.

Sounds to me like some of these idiots who say stupid comments, are scared to accept the truth, I think they need to look in a dictionary and research the meaning of the words CONSPIRACY THEORIES. And then they will become a little bit more EDUCATED 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

discuss conspiracy theories around this event

It is my direct experience that a large minority on this sub do not want to do that. What they want it to have what they know is Truth to be uncritically reinforced by others.

Pointing out a source is wrong 97% of the time isn't patronizing nor is providing evidence that something is wrong. Take, for example, the people who said it was wrong for some of the gates to be closed at the concert in Vegas. When they received information showing this was wrong they ignored it or lashed out.

Same applies to those who say they are doing science when they have no model, no math, no evidence or no experiments.

Putting this another way this isn't black and white it is a lot more nuanced than that.

Theirs a difference between expressing a view point you won't find on other subs and pushing outright lies an asking people to believe them. If you have a point make it but if your proven wrong move on.

What the hell so we can't question anything? Or point out an obvious flaw in a theory?

Of course you can, just don’t be a dick about it.

You'll get called a shill either way by the drones from T_D that have infested this place.

Anyone who implies only one side of the political system has infested this place is truly a shill.

There it is.

Please bro, I was on this sub for years too and if you’re still saying maybe this place is brigaded by both sides you’re crazy.

To an equal degree? If you believe that then that is batshit crazy

Depends on the topic. And really we’re talking about a bunch of random ass-hats so who knows. Could be all the same person for all we know.

Hell I could be arguing with myself using two alt accounts here.

Lmao true

I agree that there was a significant change during and especially after the election, and I agree that the posters from T_D that have infiltrated can be pretty annoying.

But you are lying to yourself if you try to say that this place hasn't been infiltrated by both sides, and there is no basis to your claim that it's 100% T_D's fault. Correlation doesn't equal causation.

But the "other side" wouldn't have had any fucking reason to bother being here if T_D wasn't trying to use this place as a shitposting misinformation sphere.

If they even are "here" -- frankly I haven't seen much blatant "shilling"/Clinton defenders/etc compared to the number of things I see posted by "MAGA09" or "CUCK_FOR_SALE" whatever. That doesn't mean they aren't here, I certainly haven't tried to identify any suspicious accounts or anything. But, I certainly do see those T_D people replying to anyone who questions their shit posting calling them CTR shills on the regular, though. Fuck, I wish I was getting paid for this, it'd be way better than my real job.

Just because you haven't seen them doesn't mean they aren't there. I get that's your experience but it hasn't been mine. It's not as common as T_D posters seem to think but they are here.

And the mere fact that you'd be willing to do this for money should show you how obvious it is that they exist.

That's fair, they probably are around. But I'm just defending my hatred of T_D for being the cause. It's a "THEY DREW FIRST BLOOD!" Rambo kind of situation. I miss my old /r/Conspiracy

I feel you. I miss the old /r/Conspiracy too.

But they aren't the real enemy. They're just a symptom of this broken system. And this divide and conquer tactic is just what TPTB want.

How is this not the top comment.

Sharing the world with others is a bitch ain't it. Maybe one day you can form a utopia of only one type of people that all have the same opinions on everything.

Like The_Donald?

Pretty sure not everyone is smoking pot, shooting guns, or watching cartoons. They let me in without even asking if i was white or if I voted democrat.

I consider pizzagate to be r/conspiracy's jumped shark.

Anyone who hasn't realized that the political left and the political right are two heads of the same beast placed there to give us an illusion of choice is looking too closely. The Donald is the more obnoxious in your face element (I rarely see people here wringing their hands waiting for Hilary's leadership) but this "The left" vs. "The right" is hilarious when you consider the shining star of proper "rightness" just conceded that Hilary had a point when she said "what if he had a 'silencer'?!", despite the fact that full auto suppressed fire is a finicky and rare thing.

The "right" just agreed to freeze their relaxation on federal gun laws and the left is there doing the same old song and dance: "no one 'needs' a firearm_accessory" fill in as needed. A different situation will warrant different roles for the two but the connection remains, two heads of the same beast.

Shit. I come here for actual news. Tee stuff here is far more believable than the mainstream.

I'm a lurker here 99% of the time, but I frequent because I like to challenge my own "certainties" with different views and ideas.

I often come across something I dislike, but I just keep my mouth shut because of OP's valid point. And the delivery made me chuckle.

Seriously does conspiracy have different way of processing cause and effect. If any evidence was put forward that was solid I think a good deal of the newer people would take notice.

I've read everything that's been posted and nothing has legs. It's people who have decide it's a conspiracy and are throwing stuff at the wall and hoping it sticks.

The government watching and recording all communications is a real conspiracy it's one of the most serious issue people of the world face.

This tragedy has really shown that some people on this sub aren't processing the world in a Normal way their not applying health psychology. We've had acts of violence how the whole of human history in multiple countries to jump to its a conspiracy without isn't healthy.

It's almost seems that it's game, it's their thing and this is just another game.

This may get buried, but, I would like to say that I have come here since the shooting, because something does not add up here. It's the same feeling I had after 9/11. Perhaps it is a positive that so many new users are joining this sub -- as more and more people are starting to realize how much the media and those in power are lying to us.

This place grows on you. Once you've been here awhile you'll notice when things change. The voting and comments shoot through the roof. Also name calling increases. Usually around a tragedy or big scandal.

That's pretty true. It's such an obvious pattern that we can pretty much bait them into predictable responses now.

I think it's good that we also have these kinds of threads show up and people think they can post without reading the sidebar: "This is a forum for free thinking and discussing issues which have captured the public’s imagination. Please respect other views and opinions, and keep an open mind. Our goals are a fairer, more transparent world and a better future for everyone."

And start calling us morons for saying that free thinking means more than thinking only in certain ways.

Oh, it's grown on me already! I've found my people. I don't trust the MSM, big pharma, or our f'd up government for shit.

I'm sorry but I think that discussing the mainstream narrative is part of discussing conspiracy theories. Of course you have to point out why the mainstream narrative doesn't work to prove that a conspiracy might be true. Although you have a point in that some users are berated just for espousing certain conspiracy theory, without even arguments made against them.

Well r/marijuanaenthusiasts is not about marijuana....soooo

Lol that’s what you think

Oh. And all you "debunkers"? Get fucked. With a cattle prod.

I was just talking about this yesterday. This subreddit is plagued by people who come here just to make fun of our theory's and our evidence. Like what do they get out of it? I really don't understand it

You think with groups out there like shariablue having warrooms with teams of people posting using bots, that they wouldn't also try to disrupt the conspiracy narratives?

The people of the world are very close to actually questioning the globalists and not falling for mainstream media propaganda.

It's very important to the globalists to disrupt the narrative because more and more people are lurking soaking in conspiracy theories and when a critical mass inflection point gets hit things will get crazy quick.

Imagine if a good percentage of currently useful idiots started to question the mainstream media?

Already theirs a populist who was on alex jones in the white house.

If this trend continues some of the international bankers and politicians are going to end up up im tribunals getting death sentences.

In my lifetime I dont remember a time where the powers that be seemed more nervous and on edge and threatened.

Agreed. Really tired of the r/politics posters that only believe in Russian election based conspiracies.

Can someone reply with the other subs the original poster is referencing but not citing? Thanks.

I wonder though, why propaganda is making it to the front page so many times. Being anti-MSM doesnt mean you should accept any other "news outlet". It doesnt mean we should believe in a random persons opinion. To have a proper discussion you will always need evidence or logical reasoning. And this shooting is a perfect example of the inability to do so. Long time members are just falling for everything that might point to something else when so far we have no reason to do so. Believing everything.

Why? Because of a lack of critical thought, and lax intellectual integrity.

They're also super negative and annoying.

Having mainstream acceptance does not exclude something from being a conspiracy. This isn't a place for just knee-jerk disbelieving everything that's on TV.

LOL at all of these people turning

it's not fair to berate other users for expressing a viewpoint

into

be a good sheep and accept all CT's as fact without question

Way to distort his message. You have the right to disagree. But if we could all try considering each other's perspectives and critically thinking about other's ideas before calling people names and attempting to "debunk" immediately after reading it.

Right but when the Mods have be highjacked by /r/politics, you are no longer able to have a conversation here.

I expect people to question things in a conspiracy sub, including claims other members make.

But if it wasn’t for the mainstream narrative there’d be no /r/conspiracy.

The real conspiracy is the sudden increase in alt right rhetoric.

A white guy shoots up a concert and suddenly the narrative is "It was liberals! It was a jew! It was a muslim! It was ISIS! It was a secret liberal jewish ISIS agent working for Soros!"

Then you have the other stories about "MSM won't talk about this damn black murdering white people!" like it's an actual story. Or stuff about BLM being evil. Or stuff about shills trying to help the blacks or yadda yadda blah blah.

Just a whole bunch of alt right bullshit.

I mean one of the posts on the front page is screeching about how "achktually wounded knee was the largest mass shooting" like that has anything to do with any "conspiracy". It's just blatant negative rhetoric meant to make people doubt the story.

I mean....you know who our Mods are? Right?

If you were around during the election then you probably know what I'm referring to.

In fact... Some might say it's a bit of a conspiracy..

Anything not in the mainstream narrative, which contain part truths and lies, belongs in the conspiracy realm. Each of these globalist media creeps will be the first to tell you if you don't buy their bullshit narrative your a conspiracy nut. Even a guy with a cell phone filming first hand is a conspiracy theory. Accurate journalism, won't make the evening news. So I don't know what the problem is.

Yall niggas crazy here.

Love it!

You are my hero.

I think the problem here is encouraging people to come up with ridiculous ideas without any data. Yes it’s the conspiracy theory page, but theories are not developed without considering facts and variables.

Good points. Specific power users also like to misuse the word shill too...

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/74exns/las_vegas_shooting_automatic_fire_used_to_cover/dnycvvd/

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/74exns/las_vegas_shooting_automatic_fire_used_to_cover/dnyeh8o/

https://np.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/74exns/las_vegas_shooting_automatic_fire_used_to_cover/dnyeg6a/

Good points. Specific power users also like to misuse the word shill too...

You're an 8 day old account, with -2 karma, who only started posting ever yesterday and only in threads on Conspiracy trying to attack conspiracies about the Las Vegas shooting...

And you're claiming people are misusing the word "shill"?

r/gatekeeping

The irony of this post. Question the mainstream narrative but no the conspiracy narratives because feelings will be hurt. Wtf

ITT: Everyone is a shill.

REEEEEEE normies get out.

Got it.

so are yall no longer a pro trump sub?

I don’t mind it as long as you are not banned for criticizing something wrong the current admin does.

Lul, I wish

what if all they want is to say something in such a conclusive and air tight way just to get attention? you can't really have a conspiracy unless you want attention driven to yourself and that's an addiction as powerful as any narcotic....just ask any politician....

Don't be a dick, for sure. But the amount of anti-discussion I've been seeing lately is disturbing. Scrutiny is a good thing, and a good theory will stand up to it. People coming here and arguing in favor of a "mainstream" narrative is completely fine. And the cattle calls for people to not do so need to stop. This isn't a sub for people to push bullshit and not have to defend it.

Is the mainstream narrative itself not a conspiracy theory? Can we not discuss the merits and flaws in that conspiracy theory here?

Main stream nerrative is the conspiracy though

I appreciate what the thread is trying to say but not the condescending way you're saying it

I love that we live in a day and age where you can totally see how people could be confused.

I happen to enjoy reading entries on this sub, but I feel bad that there may have been people who decided to take action on something written or discussed here. These are conspiracy theories, meant to provoke thought but I don't think that anyone in this sub would advocate direct action based on tenuous postings in this sub. I've heard that the term "conspiracy theorist" was coined by an intelligence agency who sought to discredit those whose ideas and speech could prove to be dangerous. From there, individuals would willingly wear that title when discussing those ideas.

To anybody reading here, I do not believe that anyone who posts here recommends taking direct action based on what gets discussed here. If you do take action, that's on you, especially if you act in a manner that you yourself would not like to be treated, for instance having someone barge into your home and firing a shotgun or having someone come up to you in public and accusing you of being a liar. Application of the golden rule is recommended.

Ideas are powerful, and I'm worried about those who would take a mental exercise and choose to stress out over it, or choose to directly affect someone else's life with direct action. Roko's Basilisk is a good example of an idea run amok.

Ideas are powerful, but don't let them control you.

thats like going to a sub for creative writing and saying its not real

In other words "don't call us on our nonsense"

But you as the op can berate and play gatekeeper with people that dont agree with you?

I understand the frustration of people purely being here to be contrarian. It should not be frowned up, however, to ask for the evidence used to as the basis for a theory or opinion. I see variations of OP constantly and it's getting old. It's essentially saying "I want to be able to speak my mind/opinion and I only want to discuss it with people who agree with me". It's intellectually weak and it also leads to circle jerks.

If this subreddit wasn't as politicized as it is, then I'd be more relaxed when it comes to espousing ideas with zero evidence. Add a "pure speculation" tag if you want. I've seen conspiracies that seemingly exist to smear a political opponent and is just an exercise in confirmation bias. I'm a skeptic that has earnestly tried to be cognizant of my biases. When I'm discussing various conspiracies involving the media, I expect to be challenged. If I weren't, I wouldn't have such a thoroughly developed theory. I do not like circle jerks and echo chambers and while I don't think that that's what OP is asking for, I still believe it's worth cautioning against when this subject is discussed.

Think For Yourself, Question Authority - Dr. Timothy Leary

respect.. :)

What happens when the conspiracy is the narrative then? Does a vortex paradoxically open up swallowing all free speech?

Despite the name of the sub, this shit hole is just another The Donald spin off.

Yeah tbh I'm fine if you say Soros or Willy Wonka was responsible but when you say ISIS did this I reserve the right to call you morons.

Problem is when a conspiracy has been thoroughly debunked then it's no longer a theory

Sub-point: Pro-Trump conspiracy theories are the mainstream narrative.

Well all conspiracies are just a product of money. Ends to all means in the scale we are discussing. In that sense I could see that it’s not a conspiracy but a product of capitalism

And on the flip side, I've been active on this sub the entire time I've had an account (this account...) On Reddit. If I disagree, and provide some sort of rational argument or proof that counters a point being made here, I'd expect not to be called a shill or have someone suggest that I'm being paid for posting here.

This is an open forum for discussion, not a safe space for any and all wild thoughts.

My photo of tupac and bin laden is a conspiracy and was removed from here, adding to it's credibility. It's a conspiracy about a conspiracy now

This sub has become r/conspiracydenial. Just post a article from WaPo "debunking" a conspiracy and watch the upvotes roll in. Half the accounts here have no actual interest in any conspiracies. But the mods want it to be top minds friendly here, so it's open season on conspiracies that aren't reported on by CNN.

I disagree. I think we should be willing to listen to all viewpoints including mainstream.

Another thread complaining about people picking apart wild theories. Might as well change the sub name to r/echochamber

I see lot of CIA / FBI bots berating the users with conspiracy theories.. again such comments are upvoted like crazy while next highest voted comments are way low on upvoted count

Current las Vegas shooting incident is definitely suspicious. But no, there are people who want to live in a bubble and shout down anyone who questions!

Honestly, I am tired of this shit..

I think it's quite telling that the narrative that people want to build up around the conspiracies are fairly one dimensional and trying to point at the same people that are disliked go to site that's it's more of an agenda looking for evidence rather than genuine interest in conspiracy.

OP thank you! I've been wanting to same this too.

I'm so sick and tired of people from r/T_D and r/politics brigading this sub

This topic won't hit the mark. The people op is talking about are purposely coming in here to troll. Many of them are definitely paid to do it too; astroturf is a confirmed fact, especially in communities like this. I guess it's good to have this post up reminding everyone what this community is and what the legitimate people in this community come to this community for, because that calls attention to the trolls who are purposely being assholes. But those assholes are assholes on purpose. They want to be assholes, and asking them nicely to stop being assholes won't do anything to stop them. We can't stop them like that.

Personally, I just avoid engaging with people I don't think are contributing in good faith. Sometimes I'll drop a comment explaining how they're full of shit first, but going back and forth with inane bullshit just clutters the forum and makes threads less interesting to read. If someone is being annoying on purpose, trying to fight them just gives them what they want. We should correct lies when we see them, but we shouldn't feed trolls. I think starving them of that validation is the most effective way to "battle" that type of user.

OP asks newcomers to lurk instead of immediately jumping into discussions and derailing them with dismissive bullshit

Thread is instantly flooded with newcomers endlessly arguing for why they should be able to immediately jump into discussions and derail them with dismissive bullshit

This subreddit is so fucked

Lol sad you have to point out the obvious. Some people are either just trolling or they've forgotten what corner of reddit they're at.

For some reason, they just don't get it. It's called CONSPIRACY for a reason. What I've also noticed is people calling others names when it doesn't fit their narrative, which is bizarre, considering it is a CONSPIRACY sub.

And when you call them out on the name calling, they keep doing it without talking about facts and ideas. To me, many paid Brock Dickface Media Matters and their goons stirring up BS.

It's /r/conspiracy but you've got to realize that at this point everything is pure speculation, even rational thought is just discussion at this point. This is the only forum on this site for discussion at all on this topic whether it be far out or not.

Experienced a lot of this lately w/r/t posts I've made about Vegas and Charlottesville. Lots of pro-Establishment/Media brigading.

Why thank you mister conspiracy gatekeeper.
We really need you to tell us what we're allowed to talk about.

Eat a dick eh?

"we like discussing CONSPIRACY THEORIES not the mainstream narrative" --- that is actually extremely hilarious because all I see here, well 90%, is MSN rehashing. Stephen Paddock allegedly being "the killer" is just a very recent example.

Sticky this?

Most people are afraid of the truth..but I totally understand them. Sometimes..most of the time..I wish I was oblivious

This has been my biggest reason for backing out of this subrrddit lately. I usually only post now to point out the amount of Hillary and MSM defenders we have on here. Shareblue has literally taken over this subreddit and you can't do anything about it because it is against rules to call someone out for their blatant shilling.

Freedom, Bobby, freedom. You want a controlled narrative with tough modding, these a sub for that.

I got fucking banned over this? Fuck that’s not right.

LOL.

Is that what he said? I think the main purpose of this sub is for idiot to show that they are smarter than other idiots. Like I am doing right now.

If I wanted to read about Vegas or other conspiracy's I'd lurk 4chan cuz those fags are pro's.

No one suggested theories should be accepted, but discussion should be allowed to proceed without mockery and derision designed to dissuade that discussion, I think is the point.

Question them without calling people pathetic or relying on mainstream media sources. Go to /r/politics if you want to argue about stuff from a whitelist

You still don't seem to be understanding how the English language works. Words convey meaning. Sometimes you use them to convey meaning beyond their literal meaning. So you use figurative speech, hyperbole, metaphors, or allegories etc. Doing so and trying to pass off such a statement as literally true would be lying. Doing so in a manner designed to make clear the figurative meaning, such as if someone said something sarcastically but with a tone that conveys sarcasm, is just called speaking in English.

Did you miss that I was speaking figuratively or not? Because if you did miss it then that's a whole different barrel of fish. And if you didn't miss my actual meaning, which seems more likely, asking for a literal Obama Vampire Theory post would be a deliberately combative and misleading way to try to frame a response I think. One in line with your choice to immediately devolve into vitriol and name calling.

In any event, the topic calls for tolerance of conspiracies and understanding of what this sub is about. I was trying to state my opinion that I agree, but supporting respectful questioning of a theory, or disagreement, must also be encouraged. Disagreement and requests for sources on topics is part of the process of fact finding. It is contributing to the search for knowledge and how bad information is winnowed out. If people don't support that process and instead call downvoting or questioning a theory brigading/disrespect then this place will devolved into /r/conspiracyshowerthoughts.

(obviously to some extend disrespect/brigading does occur...where could we find someone disrespectful I wonder?... but usually when I see the terms used around here it's because people are upset not everyone agrees with them).

Completely agree. Attacking the user isn't good, though I may be a bit of a smart ass at times with my comments...

My favorite is when you take the ti,emto provide sources and they ignore them.

I highly doubt it. It seems to me you are just trying to slide this forum without any real evidence.

I highly doubt it. It seems to me you are just trying to slide this forum without any real evidence.

I like how your examples of bad criticism are how the majority of you "theorists" respond to your examples of legit criticism.

The "far flung theory" was pretty ubiquitous on this sub. Especially then all I advocated was waiting till we know more details. But yes my patience will wear thin when it's a constant barrage of "MSM shill" while I'm just trying to say your false flag theory is unsubstantiated.

Maybe there needs to be less criticism of the doubters and more criticism of the fanaticism displayed by the theorists.

Try asking any of the constructive questions and see how well that goes over.

Or downvote when your evidence proves them wrong.

Define what you mean by personal attack? Calling paranoid behavior what it is?

i totally agree, cant people disagree with one another without becoming completely unhinged?

User Provides source

Response: Fake News.

Feel free to go to /r/politics if you disagree.

The same could be said of a lot of people who put down the positive criticism. If you say you don't agree with some bat shit theory you get called a shill. Just because a bunch of turds on 4chan made something up doesn't mean it's worthwhile to repeat it a million times here.

facepalm

Unchecked pattern recognition is a mental disorder

Productive Criticism: "Do you have a source for that?" "I have experience with x and this part of your theory doesn't seem right because y"

That doesn't work so well a lot of the time. Some people REALLY don't like what they have already internalized as Truth to be questioned.

There it is.

Right so you assume I’m lying about how long I’ve lurked in the sub because I disagree with you.

Weaponized Ignorance

Thanks for qualifying your statement.

Never heard of moon Nazis. But that still sounds more probable to me.

To an equal degree? If you believe that then that is batshit crazy

But the "other side" wouldn't have had any fucking reason to bother being here if T_D wasn't trying to use this place as a shitposting misinformation sphere.

If they even are "here" -- frankly I haven't seen much blatant "shilling"/Clinton defenders/etc compared to the number of things I see posted by "MAGA09" or "CUCK_FOR_SALE" whatever. That doesn't mean they aren't here, I certainly haven't tried to identify any suspicious accounts or anything. But, I certainly do see those T_D people replying to anyone who questions their shit posting calling them CTR shills on the regular, though. Fuck, I wish I was getting paid for this, it'd be way better than my real job.

I see a whole lot of the first two that gets downvoted and people scream about because it's still questioning their narrative.

Ok. I haven’t once suggested you leave the forum, but you have suggested that to me and other users several times.

Anyone who hasn't realized that the political left and the political right are two heads of the same beast placed there to give us an illusion of choice is looking too closely. The Donald is the more obnoxious in your face element (I rarely see people here wringing their hands waiting for Hilary's leadership) but this "The left" vs. "The right" is hilarious when you consider the shining star of proper "rightness" just conceded that Hilary had a point when she said "what if he had a 'silencer'?!", despite the fact that full auto suppressed fire is a finicky and rare thing.

The "right" just agreed to freeze their relaxation on federal gun laws and the left is there doing the same old song and dance: "no one 'needs' a firearm_accessory" fill in as needed. A different situation will warrant different roles for the two but the connection remains, two heads of the same beast.

Paramedics wouldn't disturb an active crime scene just to move obviously dead bodies to a black mat outside the building.

Conspiracy will be unprovable until it is proven

Sigh...this is just not true.

I give up.

You are proof that the one of the most awful straits a person can have is confident ignorance. I live in CT. So what you're suggesting is that "actors" moved to CT years before the incident, bought homes, pretended to have children, who were also "actors", then faked a tragic event and stayed in character to continue living and working in town. The school is in on it, the school board, the town, the outlying towns, neighbors, friends, all in on a conspiracy to do what? Take away our guns that were never taken away? This is the reason that when you people have something to add to a conversation, by default we all assume its bullshit.

Shot a hard drive, then was released, not put on trial, and went quietly into the night. Enough to point the blame at pizzagate and shut discussion & discovery down. One guy, an actor, one shot, no repercussions. Come on now.

Just FYI I will only be addressing your comments that are relevant to this thread:

I don’t trust his interpretation of what’s “patronizing” considering he clearly doesn’t understand the definition of the word.

Says you with not evidence to back it.

I also disagree that a ludicrous theory WITH NO EVIDENCE shouldn’t be berated, along with the person promoting said theory and watering down the quality of this forum.

Sure! It should be berated! In case you don't know what berate measn: https://www.google.com/search?q=define+berated&amp;oq=define+berated&amp;aqs=chrome..69i57j0l3.4903j0j7&amp;sourceid=chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8

I haven't seen any where you have provided any sort or reproach or admonishment saying otherwise.

This thread is and always has been an opinion based discussion, so you’re demand for “facts” makes no sense in this context. What facts are you looking for? Should I sneak into their houses and read their diaries?

Again no sort of submitted proof or axamples? Just talking out your ass?

TLDR: Your a tool who thinks they can talk their way out of their shitt fucking comment that some how got upvotes. Yet you lack any substance to your comments and I still sit here waiting for you to provide it...... Keep going troll! I'm on vaca let dance all night long!

The people there didn’t know he wasn’t about to start the next mass killing. They were probably all terrified. It’s pretty irresponsible to minimize the seriousness of what he did.

On the flip side, it’s not fair the blame an idea for what a crazy person does with it.

I understand that. I don’t have a problem with you or OP expression your opinion and trying to make this place the way you want it. I don’t get more of a say than anyone else