Why would he have stopped?
18 2017-10-05 by beaujangles727
Going off what has been given so far, there is no clear motive. It just seemed like the guy wanted to kill as many people as he could - his planning shows this much to be true.
So if that is the case, why would he have stopped firing? From the time of the last gun shot to the police entering the room was appx 60 minutes? He could have done way more damage with the amount of guns and ammunition.
With as much planning as this had in it, I think there has to be another person in that room. Maybe someone who wasn't completely capable of doing this, like a mentor or something. Someone to load the bullets, hand over cool guns, help bust out the windows.
But on top of all that, why kill himself? He had cameras set up so he could watch when police or swat was coming. He would have known he was going to die. If his mission was to hurt as many people as possible would he have stopped? If you put yourself in his mind I personally would have just kept going and when I saw swat move in I would have changed my attention to the hall way. I would not have shot myself.
I think maybe if he had a second person in the room, they could have gotten spooked by the security guard. Shot Paddock, and taken off in plenty of time before swat was at the room. His freight of what just happened could have easily blended in with the rest of the commotion going on and gotten away.
They need to release some concrete evidence because the longer this goes on the worst it looks.
40 comments
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
The security guard barged in.
1 Jsantoslive03 2017-10-05
The security guard didn't barge in he was shot through the door. So the cameras were working as intended. He could have kept going until the swat team was coming down the hallway
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
Regardless, the shooting of the security guard was when Paddock stopped shooting.
1 Jsantoslive03 2017-10-05
I don't think that is when he stopped shooting though. Maybe stopped shooting momentarily but I don't think that's when he completely stopped
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
Any reasoning you have to think that?
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
Yeah, I would think in that situation I see 1 of 3 things could happen.
Its clear on the surface option 2 is what was decided, it's just hard to believe that much preparedness would have been used up in 10 minutes then killed him self.
1 Jsantoslive03 2017-10-05
His room number was known within about 5 minutes from the start of the shooting so that's not the case. I don't remember exactly what the timing was but I believe the cops in the stairwell had talked to the security guard while we was still shooting. But why would he stop just bc they know the room number? He had cameras in the hall he didn't have to stop until they were walking down the hall which was about 40 minutes after he stopped
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
Yes, but he didn't realize his room would be found out so soon. There's no way he would have known his room would have been found out in 5 minutes, otherwise he wouldn't have spent all that time setting up the way he did and had 23 guns. He definitely assumed he would have been able to shoot for a lot longer than he really did.
Also, the official report is that he stopped shooting at 10:15, which is when the security guard supposedly got shot. So Paddock did in fact stop and then shoot himself once he was found out.
1 Jsantoslive03 2017-10-05
Idk I mean this guy clearly wasn't stupid. He prepped all that and was very familiar with Vegas/hotels. He almost 100% knew that once he started firing a smoke alarm or something would go off and lead them to his room. Hence the cameras. If he was out to kill as much as possible it wouldn't matter if swat showed up 1 minute or 5 minutes after the guard he could have easily let off a bunch more clips
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
He wasn't smart enough to disable the smoke detector.
1 Jsantoslive03 2017-10-05
Haha well in Vegas or any really high end hotels maybe tampering with the fire system would set off an alarm by itself. Wouldn't want to do that. Id assume it's not just a smoke detector on the wall. I honestly have no idea why he stopped that's one of my biggest things I don't understand. He expressed all the time and energy to bring all the guns and ammo up. Months of planning but then stops at the first sign of a hotel security guard. I don't buy it.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
Why is it difficult to accept he panicked and just shot himself?
As Mike Tyson said, everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. Paddock may have had an elaborate plan, but it all may have went to shit once he started shooting and started seeing people die. Or maybe he overlooked security coming up and that freaked him out a bit. People who do mass shootings and spree shootings rarely ever act logically, no matter how methodical their planning was.
1 Jsantoslive03 2017-10-05
Listen I'm not saying it's a conspiracy and it may very well be he panicked all I'm simply saying is it's one of the parts of it I don't truly understand.
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
The smoke alarm is the thing that gets me. Why would he have not thought about that? I guess you could say he didnt know so much smoke would go out, but I am sure he had to know his room would be found out pretty easily. Just from the sheer number of people in the hotel above and below him.
1 Jsantoslive03 2017-10-05
I'm sure he did know the alarms would go off. That's why he set the cameras up outside so he could shoot through the door at anyone who approached
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
yeah thats true. I just thought too, a hotel of that size, if the alarms go off, or get disconnected probably sends a signal to operations, giving his exact location sooner.
1 bomalley6 2017-10-05
The shooting stopped because the second shooter(security guard) killed his accomplice, staged suicide, and shot himself in the leg then waited for police
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
I feel like this would have been confirmed by now by the police if it had happened.
1 Wishery_ 2017-10-05
Not necessarily. I’ve been in and worked in multiple high end hotels, and none of them have ever had security cameras in the hallways. You don’t want your guests to feel like they’re being watched all the time.
1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
I counter that as I've worked in multiple hotels as a security guard myself and the nicer the hotel the more likely security cameras are present in the hallways. There is definitely cams in the elevator and the guard claimed he took the elevator.
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
I mean thats the only reasonable thing I could think of.
But - and again its fucked up trying to put myself into his shoes, don't want it to seem like I am defending him - if I am in a room, and just shot for 10 minutes into a crowd of people. I have 20+ guns with thousands of rounds of ammunition. Someone tries coming into my door, and I unload on them (sheriff saying 200 rounds fired into the hallway) then quiet. I would check my cameras, see thats its a security guard. Again my quest of killing people I would go back to firing into the crowd.
After doing something like that, even if spooked by a security guard after a few minutes of nothing else he had to have realized police weren't close yet.
I mean as well planned out as this was, and as much that went into it, he is going to off himself because a security guard unlocked his door got shot and left?
1 HempCO719 2017-10-05
That last paragraph is what they want. But god forbid somebody ties the mob into this
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
hmm.. thats interesting.
I know Las Vegas mobs aren't as prevalent as the 40's and 50's but they knowingly still exist, just quieter.
I wonder if there would be any motive for any of the big money people in vegas to not want these types of festivals happening? I would bet it would have to do with the number of people that come into vegas just for the show. Taking up rooms and not spending as much in casinos.
1 willworkfordroogs 2017-10-05
The mob? That's Just another three letters equivalent to CIA.
1 HempCO719 2017-10-05
It seems like, to me at least, these events were decided upon by the 'extra support' a certain candidate would have been using throughout her presidency. (the secret globalist branch of of the deep state)
1 cocoonx 2017-10-05
You are thinking it completely wrong. The Police never announced that they will wait another hour before entering the room.
It really does not matter how long it took for the police to raid the suite.
Paddock, though having setup cameras, could never be certain what is going to happen next.
And
What the....fuck!
1 JDameekoh 2017-10-05
The motivation to kill himself is the same as any spree shooter. They don't want to risk being taken alive to spend the rest of their lives in prison. They get to control the way they end their life instead of living their remaining days in prison or being brutally murdered in prison.
1 Will_Leave_A_Mark 2017-10-05
Everyone wants to make sense of this to somehow understand the reasoning of a deeply flawed person. If he was pulling off a professional hit the man would have planned an escape, but he did not. This was someone that wanted the world to burn and to take himself out with it. For whatever reason, we do not yet know.
1 iLL_S_D 2017-10-05
Per the Sheriff he absolutely did plan an escape.
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
I mean, I think the cameras being set up could be said that they were for look out but also to make sure he was clear to carry out an escape. Since for all we know no one left that room, we may never know what he may have had planned. But he did have guns and explosive chemicals in his car. One would think that would be part of an escape.
1 Will_Leave_A_Mark 2017-10-05
He had fertilizer in his vehicle that set off the ammonium nitrate tests, but it was not assembled into an explosive device from the reports.
Also, he was in the room long enough before the event to be able to create an emergency call to that floor in order to determine response time and plan an escape accordingly. He was apparently smart enough to win at high stakes gambling, so to not escape means that he didn't plan on escaping in my book.
1 faunprincess 2017-10-05
I keep seeing everywhere that they don't know when he actually "killed himself" which imo can't possibly be true. The door was slightly open when the security guard arrived, Paddock opened fire on the security guard and then what? I could be wrong but I recall reading that when they arrived on the 32nd floor, the security guard informed Police that he'd been shot. Which would mean the guard would still be within earshot if he had killed himself afterwards. If he had killed himself it would've been one final shot that they heard and out of everyone within reasonable distance this entire time can't recall hearing a single shot before silence?
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
Yep, that is kind of where I was going.
I am not going to go as far as say he was killed in advance, but it seems like regardless if he just shot hundreds of rounds out of a window, someone in that hotel close to his room would have heard a single gun shot being fired inside the room.
1 faunprincess 2017-10-05
Exactly and after watching the videos of the shooting it's apparent that he was firing off wildly at the crowd. A single shot and then silence would've stood out to anyone around.
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
yep, I mean people were taking cover at the sound of a gun shot for 10-11 minutes. I feel like that single shot would have definitely stood out if nothing else but from the shock of "here it goes again take cover!" to oh that was it?
1 WombatWithWings 2017-10-05
Who the hell forgets to close the door when they shit, let alone go on a shooting spree? Makes no sense for such a deliberately and carefully planned attack to have a glaring error in it.
And then they said they blew it open with explosives. That means it was closed sometime after the "security guard" "left". But then look at the leaked photos and the door didn't seem like an explosive or charge of any kind went off.
1 flizzy333 2017-10-05
According to the timeline, the hotel security guard who was shot in the leg pointed the room out to police within 3 minutes of the last burst of gunfire.
Reports are saying that police think Paddock might have thought he could escape, and even suggest he may have had help "at some point".
22:05 - First shots fired by Paddock 22:12 - Officers reach 31st floor and report gunfire coming from floor above 22:15 - Last shots fired into the concert crowd 22:18 - Security guard on 32nd floor tells police he has been shot and points them to room 23:20 - Swat teams enter gunman's room. They find 'one suspect down'
From: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41511666
With a 3 minute gap between last shots fired and security guard informing police, here's some total speculation...
Two windows were busted out, so let's say two shooters. Security guard shows up outside the room at 22:15, which is what prompted the end of the firing in the crowd.
Paddock (or person X) shoots the guard through the door (according to reports).
Person X (who also wants to escape) then kills Paddock, and leaves when the security guard exits the area (which person x would see on the cameras).
That could reasonably transpire in under a minute, giving person x 2 minutes to go to another room, rented in their own name, or some other planned route.
With the one rifle ON Paddock's lower legs, it suggests that he used the rifle to kill himself, but there's also a revolver above his head, in that bloody close up of him dead.
If a mythical person x who shot Paddock after the security guard, it would make sense that the rifle is lying on top of his legs, and then the hand gun thrown to the floor near him.
Just a (really disturbing) shower thought.
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
I was just replying another comment asking for his timeline, and yeah that answers that lol.
I agree with you 100% as far as conspiracy goes. Security guard spooked Paddock, its possible Paddock could have freaked, the other person if they have more experience could have seen Paddock wasn't going to make it, and decided to end him there. Doing 2 things - 1 loose baggage. Chance of them not being able to handle the pressure and turning them in. 2. gives person X plenty of time to get away. LA is only a 4 hour drive. Its possible they could have been on a plane going far away before America was even waking up. With everything going on he could have had the room down the road at another casino cleaned, in his car, heading out of town.
I keep seeing people ask "What id Paddock had someone helping him?" What is Paddock was the someone helping. I mean nothing in his history points that he would have done this, but what if someone got in his head and had him be the helper. The question becomes does this man have the ability/knowledge to pull something like this off? So far the overall answer to those around him - was no. But that is not to say he wasn't persuaded by an extremest. Maybe he was just the accomplice.
With everything going on he could have had the room down the hall and gotten in, cleaned any GSR, and calmly checked out of the room by midnight.
1 jaydwalk 2017-10-05
There was so much ammunition it doesn't make sense why he would stop...
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
That is what I am getting at. Why carry that much to the room to only use 1/4 of it.
Again glad it wasn't used... it just doesnt make sense.
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1 IamNotYourBuddy 2017-10-05
Regardless, the shooting of the security guard was when Paddock stopped shooting.
1 beaujangles727 2017-10-05
hmm.. thats interesting.
I know Las Vegas mobs aren't as prevalent as the 40's and 50's but they knowingly still exist, just quieter.
I wonder if there would be any motive for any of the big money people in vegas to not want these types of festivals happening? I would bet it would have to do with the number of people that come into vegas just for the show. Taking up rooms and not spending as much in casinos.