Is Lucifier/satan good?

9  2017-10-06 by SLAGM

I was just pondering the mythology of the bible and stumbled upon something that I thought would make for interesting debate on this forum.

According the text of the bible itself, Lucifer was the good guy and God was the evil one.

Here’s the logic, based on the bible itself.

Lucifer was an angel who was pissed that angels, who were divine, immortal and created first by god were created as slaves of god while humans were favored with free will. Lucifer claimed that angles should be treated at least as well as humans and convinced many other angels of this as well.

God told them to shut up and obey, Lucifer launched a rebellion to overthrow the Tyrant who was denying angels their rights and lost.

He and his supporters where exiled from heaven and ended up on earth. Since history is written by the victors their dominion was renamed, “hell” and the supporters of Lucifer labeled as “demons” and Lucifer himself was made into the epitome of evil. BUT what exactly did Lucifer do that was evil? Let’s examine the evidence.

1.   Convinced Adam and Eve to eat from the tree of knowledge.

Counter point:  God created Adam and Eve to be stupid and amusing pets. He built a nice zoo complete with landscaping, food, water, ECT. But insisted we remain stupid and ignorant of the truth.

When Lucifer told Eve that knowledge is not evil and that Truth is a good thing, she used her free will and logic, (given by god) to come to the conclusion that eating the apple would be a good thing.

God flips out that his asinine rule was broken, (today we call those who try to forcibly keep truth from their subjects dictators and tyrants) kicks out Adam and Eve and proclaims that their descendents will be punished for all eternity, (thus inventing original sin and showing himself to be a giant dick who holds insane grudges).

2.   Goads God into the Story of Job.

Background: Job was a god fearing, righteous man who exalted god daily for his healthy family, bountiful crops and livestock and wonderful home.

God boasted to Lucifer of how much Job loved him. Lucifer said it’s because god had given Job such a sweet life.  God proceeded to kill Jobs family, destroy his crops and livestock and demolish his home. Job still exalted god, thus proving his loyalty and faith.

Counter point.  Kim Jong IL calls Barrack Obama and tells him of his top general, a man called Ming, who loves Kim Jong IL immensely and tells him everyday what a wonderful leader he is. Obama tells Kim it’s because he has bribed the general with a fine life, of a large house, riches, women and power.

Kim calls in General Ming and his family. Before the general Kim Jong IL shoots the man’s family, then announces that his bank  account is gone and his home burned to the ground. General Ming drops to his knees and begs Kim Jong IL to forgive him for whatever he did to displease the dear leader. He exalts the Dictator like never before because he is convinced the tyrant has gone insane and will now kill him.

Kim Jong IL is pleased and calls Obama to gloat that General Ming has proven his loyalty despite Kim destroying his life.

Replace Kim Jong IL with God, General Ming with Job and Obama with Lucifer and you have the story of Job. Now I ask you who is the bad guy in that story? Obama? Or Kim Jong IL?

3.   Lucifer tries to get Jesus to save himself rather than be crucified.

Now let’s look at the story of Jesus dieing for the sins of mankind more closely.

Jesus was sent by his dad to be tortured to death by humans because the first humans had used their god given free will to choose knowledge over ignorance, thus disobeying god.

God, the eternal prick that he will soon be shown to be, held a grudge for millennia against the descendents of Adam and Eve, until one day he decides he can forgive humans, BUT only if he stages a dramatic murder of his son at the hands of the same humans he can now forgive.

Rather than just declare humans forgiven, he decides to stage a snuff show that he will lord over humanity for eternity, guilting us into obeying him, (we have too because Jesus died for our sins at the command of his insane father)

For pointing out the insanity of god’s actions and telling Jesus he doesn’t have to die and shouldn’t, Lucifer is called evil.

Now where in the Bible does Lucifer ever kill anyone or do anything we would consider evil? I can’t think of any.

But do you know who is the biggest asshole and bloodthirsty murderer? God, let’s examine the evidence.

1.   Kicking out Adam and Eve from paradise for eating from the fruit of knowledge.

As explained previously, knowledge is something all should strive for and not shun because their dictator tells them to avoid it.

2.   Tower of Babel

At one time all people spoke the same language. They decided to get together and build a tower so high it could reach heaven, (a foolish idea since humans have gone into space and not found heaven thus it is not  a place the builders of the tower could ever have reached).  

God was so angered by what he saw as arrogance by the people that he smashed the tower and scatted them all over the earth, making them speak different languages so that they could never again understand each other enough to work on another tower.

Note that the misunderstanding the results from different languages results in countless wars that kill many tens of millions of people.

Counter point.

You work in Japan, your  toddler child who lives in New York tells you he is building a boat with his friends that he will use to cross the oceans and reach Tokyo. 

You fly into a rage, smash his boat, and then kidnap your child’s friends and leave them at different end s of the city and make each child unable to understand, (inevitably leading to misunderstanding and hatred) other children. You are left secure in the thought that your child will never be so arrogant to try to build a homemade raft to circle the earth again.

Now what would we think of such a parent? We would put their child in protective service and probably put the parent in jail or at least in a psychiatric hospital because they are obviously crazy and in need of professional help.

But when god does its suddenly ok and the fault of the kids for attempting to work together to accomplish an impossible task?

3.   Noah’s Ark and the flood.

God gave humans free will to decide for ourselves whether or not to obey him. Most people chose not to. So God decided to kill everyone on earth, including millions of innocent babies, as well as every plant and animal.

He then decides to spare one family, a family that does obey him, because then the descendents will be more likely to obey him.

Now when god speaks to Noah, Noah is aware of whom god is, because obviously some people do believe in god and obey him. The millions of god fearing and god obeying people who are not part of Noah’s family? Well fuck them too, they can die with all the innocent babies god suddenly feels like drowning.

When god is done drowning the world, (why the need to kill all those animals, why not just send a plague to target the wicked, thus sparing all the faithful and the babies?) he promises to never drown it again, (though he could destroy it in some other way).

What amazes me is that the story of Noah is told to children as an example of god’s love.

WAIT A SECOND! God commits the greatest act of genocide in history, kills more people than Hitler, Stalin and Mao combined and then we are told that Lucifer is the evil one?

4.   Killing the first born of Egypt So the Israelites are forced into exile, go to Egypt where they are enslaved by the Egyptians. God sends Moses to free his people. Pharaoh refuses and orders the first born son of each Israeli family killed. Before that can be carried out, god sends the angel of death to kill the first born of every Egyptian family. Not just Pharaoh’s son, but every first born son in Egypt.

This act of genocide is commemorated by the holiday of Passover.

Why is god punishing innocent people, many of them children for the barbarity of one man?

And why is it ok when he does it?

5.   Ordering genocide in his name

Specifically I am referring to ordering the Israelites, now freed from Egypt, to attack and kill the Canaanites, including every man, women and child, even the dogs! Not only does god love to commit genocide but apparently he loves to make us humans do it too!

Of course, some religious folks will say, “Any thing god does is by definition moral, evening mass murder or ordering mass murder in his name”.

Let me get this straight, killing scores of innocent men, women and children is ok, as long as god told you too? Isn’t that what Osama Bin Laden says he’s doing?

Or what about the 12 crusades that were launched in the Middle Ages? Those were ordered by the Popes who are supposedly infallible because they have a direct line to god.

6.   Allowing rape, slavery, exploitation of women and all the other nasty shit that’s in “his good book”.

In the bible you’ll find examples of rape, incest, slavery and massive chauvinism all justified. Oh and let’s not forget the story of Abraham, ordered to sacrifice his own son. Lucky for him god chose to send an angel to stay Abraham’s hand at the last instant but really, why not just look into the man’s soul to determine the depth of his faith, isn’t god suppose to be all knowing? Must he really order his follows to kill their own children to prove something to him?

So examining the evidence from the bible itself we have god, acting as the genocidal tyrant who gives us free will and the choice to obey or not, then kills us en mass for choosing wrong vs. Lucifer, the angel who’s only sin was to disagree with god and who thinks that all sentient beings have an inherent right to self determination and should use logic to think for themselves, (the basis of western civilization). Who’s the good guy and who’s the bad guy? Seems pretty obvious to me. Moreover let me put this hypothetical before you.

If you did a survey of a thousand Americans and told them of a General Lao, a tyrannical and petty, grudge holding dictator of some Asian country and Commander Tzu an opposition leader who believed in self determination and logical thinking, (i.e. democracy) and who launched a failed coup attempt to unseat the despot General Lao, and asked them, “who do you support and who should the United States support?”

What do you think the results would be? Every one of them would say “Commander Tzu is the good guy and General Lao is the bad guy.” In fact many might say the US should send military aid to Commander Tzu.

Now what would those same people say if you told them that all the atrocities committed by General Lao were actually described in the bible as committed by God and the actions of Commander Tzu were committed by Lucifer?

Do you think that could give people some pause, perhaps give them some reason to think for themselves instead of blindly accepting propaganda and living instructions from some ancient “magic book” written millennia ago?

No, that's probably too much to ask. After all, Lucifer is the epitome of evil and God is all love and compassion, it says so in the bible;)

Please note, I am not arguing that Christians should abandon their faith and start worshiping Lucifer instead, (after all we are talking about mythology here, I would no more argue that someone should worship Ares over Zeus because one Greek god is an asshole and the other a cool guy) but rather that blindly accepting what’s written in some book as divine truth and deciding to live your life by it is foolish.

I find it amusing that so many fundamentalist Christians have no idea of what horrors lie within “the good book”. 

These same people will point to me, a secular humanist who believes that humans must ban together to create a society in which all people have access to the basic necessities of life as well as a good education in order to ensure equality of opportunity so that we may all maximize our potentials and thus maximize aggregate happiness in the world, as an immoral person for not accepting what is in their magic book, yet they, who claim that “every word in the bible is literally true” are virtuous for blindly following orders from the greatest genocidal dictator of all time

SOURCE-https://sguforums.com/index.php/topic,20959.0.html?PHPSESSID=0ad416c18b0dcf0b40a8d453a2c27883

25 comments

1  SheepShaggah 2017-10-06

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnGo6Qm0Wt8

1  ignorethislunatic 2017-10-06

Read up on Gnosticism and come to your own conclusion.

1  Wild_man_mick_brown 2017-10-06

This guy just reinvented gnosticism from scratch. Pretty impressive actually.

1  NONSTOPFEELING 2017-10-06

God not real

1  Smoothtank 2017-10-06

So profound.

1  NONSTOPFEELING 2017-10-06

I am a top mind of reddit

1  MKULTRAserialkillers 2017-10-06

Jehovah was scary. See: http://www.evilbible.com

Jesus changed all that. I'm no fanatic so if you can disprove that statement have at it. TBH it's truly disturbing to me that people still worship Jehovah. The New Testament is where it's at philosophically, but if you want some good blood n guts n vengeance go Old Testament.

As for Lucifer, I feel it's pretty obvious he's evil by viewing the actions of luciferian/theistic satanists who comprise our aristocratic class.

Thoughts?

1  LongSaggyBalls 2017-10-06

I have no dog in this fight. But as for your last part, I don't think you can judge spiritual entity by the actions of the followers. If that were the case then Jesus wouldn't look great either.

1  LeBlight 2017-10-06

Definitely one of the theories. Like that weird fucking AMA on ATS with an "enlightened" being who said something along the lines that the concept of Lucifer is to run foil with "god" which forces people on this planet to eventually go on a path now and after death to become one source of "love." Shit that dude was saying was fucking insane.

1  TheBrit90 2017-10-06

The Law of One is a great read http://www.lawofone.info/ The Hidden Hand - excellent. http://www.illuminati-news.com/00363.html (Just one of the many links)

Your Creator, the one you have called 'Yahweh', is not "God" inasmuch as your bible refers to him as being "the One True God". He is 'a' Creator (or Sub-Sub-Logos) rather than the One Infinite Creator. He is not even a Galactic level Logos, but rather, is the Planetary Logos for this one planet.

Our Creator, is the one you refer to as 'Lucifer', "The Light Bearer" and "Bright and Morning Star".

Our Creator is not "The Devil" as he has been spuriously portrayed in your bible. Lucifer is what you would call a "Group Soul" or "Social Memory Complex", which has evolved to the level of the Sixth Density, which in effect, means that he (or more accurately "'we") has evolved to a level sufficient that he (we) has attained a status equal or arguably 'greater' than that of Yahweh (we have evolved higher than him). In appearance, were you to gaze upon Lucifer's fullest expression of our Being, the appearance would be that of a Sun or a "Bright Star". Or, when stepping down into a 3rd Density vibration, we would appear as what you may term an 'Angel' or 'Light Being'.

Allow me to elucidate:

When an entity (Group Soul Complex) evolves to the level of the Sixth Density, it is by comparison to the amount of time it takes to get that far, a mere hop skip and a jump from 8th Density Ultimate Re-Union with The One Infinite Creator, and then from there, back to dissolution into the Source of All, Intelligent Infinity.

We (our Bloodline Families), as a Group Soul or Social Memory Complex (Lucifer), were on the verge of Seventh Density Ascension, though at this level, before Harvest comes, we have the choice to progress higher, or, to return to help others of lower densities with their own evolution, by passing down our knowledge and Wisdom (Light) to those that call upon us for assistance, with their own Free Will.

Now, at this time, having made our decision to stay and help our Galactic Brothers and Sisters in The One, we were assigned a challenging task by the Council of Elders, who act as the Guardians of this Galaxy from their Eighth Density 'Head Quarters' on the planet Saturn.

Yahweh, due to the fact that he had NOT (as was his right as Planetary Logos) handed down his own Free Will to "know thyself" to those incarnating upon 'his' planet, was having very little evolutionary progress therein. So we (Lucifer) were sent to help. Once the order was given from the Council of Elders, we "Fell", or Descended back to a place where we could, with hard work and focus, once again materialize a 3rd Density manifestation of ourself.

Yahweh had agreed to our coming, in fact it was he who had initially asked the Council for a "Catalyst" of change to enter into his Creation, and share the knowledge and wisdom we had attained through our Ascensions. In the absence of Free Will upon the planet, there can be no Polarity, and therefore, nothing to 'choose' between. Just as is portrayed in the book of Genesis, the planet was very "Edenic" in nature. Sure, it was a lovely 'paradise', yet the Beings incarnating there had no agitator toward evolving beyond the 3rd Density, and therefore, little hope of ever making the journey Home, to The One. Yahweh has been happy to keep his own little pet Eden Project in effect, but with little chance of the Souls here making it Home, it had become in effect, an albeit very beautiful 'Prison'. Yahweh was, in modern parlance, running a benign dictatorship.

1  ConspiracyAccount 2017-10-06

That was an excellent, concise summation.

1  d3rr 2017-10-06

Is it even fair to morally compare God to his creation, an angel named Lucifer? Also you have Lucifer just chillaxing and not doing shit while spilling all of God's old testament dirty laundry.

1  SLAGM 2017-10-06

I am confused

1  d3rr 2017-10-06

God is the top of the pyramid and Lucifer is like halfway up, a bit above humans.

1  TheBrit90 2017-10-06

Actually, Yahweh is a little way up the pyramid. Lucifer is about 2 from the top. The One is at the Top.

Your God, isn't the big boss God, just a creator of a planet.

1  d3rr 2017-10-06

That sounds like some Illuminati trickery but what do I know.

1  TheBrit90 2017-10-06

Look at history, before Christianity. Zeus was the God of Gods, the other Gods were under him.

So your definition is clearly wrong. When you study all religions, there are hundreds of different Gods.

1  d3rr 2017-10-06

I meant God as in monotheistic faiths' God. Certainly they're all talking about the same thing that's at the top of the pyramid. But who knows, I hope to find out someday rather than die like a dog.

1  TheBrit90 2017-10-06

Dogs generally die from old age, what do you want to die from? being raped in the arse with a hose pipe?

1  d3rr 2017-10-06

I meant dogs die and then they're dead. No heaven, no afterlife, no nothing.

1  [deleted] 2017-10-06

[removed]

1  [deleted] 2017-10-06

[removed]

1  IntellisaurDinoAlien 2017-10-06

Found your alt :)

1  NibiruNibiruNibiru 2017-10-06

Plenty more where that came from :P

1  Night__Watch 2017-10-06

Satan has not given up on corrupting the bloodline. His first plan was defeated when God sent the flood. Jesus was born of a pure bloodline which was in line with the prophecy of Satan’s destruction. Satan is determined to win the war against Jesus, but he will ultimately lose. He will not give up without a fight and he wants to take as many people as he can with him.

To understand the methods that Satan is using to pull man away from following God and turning man to follow Satan, you need to look at things from Satan’s point of view. What is the best way to corrupt people and to start them on the path of questioning God and following their own paths? Start when they are children. See my post on Idol Worship for more on that. The next step is electronics, there is a huge push for people to get “chipped” now. This would mean getting a microchip implanted in your body. For me, this is too close to the mark of the beast spoken of in Revelation.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Revelation 13:16-18

Do I know for sure that a microchip will be the Mark of the Beast? No, but I do not want any microchips in my skin. Since the verse does specify “in their right hand, or in their foreheads” it does make sense that it will be something implantable, like a microchip. Anyone that has the Mark of the Beast is doomed to death, there is no changing your mind once you have received it. In ancient times when a servant chooses to serve his master even after his time is up, he is branded.

4“If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone.5“But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,’ 6then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.… Exodus 21:4-6

Once a slave bears that mark, they are forever a slave. The mark is a mark of ownership, just as when you choose to take the Mark of the Beast, you are giving ownership of yourself to Satan.

What other ways is Satan trying to get you to follow him? The movies and TV are promoting all kinds of Superheroes. When you see all the amazing things they can do you wish you had those kind of powers too. Now what if there was some kind of bio-mechanics that you could have added to your body, similar to plastic surgery except instead of changing your features you would be adding mechanical features to yourself. You could be just like a superhero, part human and part machine…..do you get it….you would no longer be fully human. You would now be a corrupted being. This is only an example of the many ways that Satan is working on to corrupt humanity both morally and physically. In the Bible, Jesus tells his disciples that when he returns the earth will be as corrupt as it was before the flood.

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:37

Be wary of the schemes of Satan, he is crafty and is always looking for a subtle way to corrupt you.

1  Night__Watch 2017-10-06

Satan has not given up on corrupting the bloodline. His first plan was defeated when God sent the flood. Jesus was born of a pure bloodline which was in line with the prophecy of Satan’s destruction. Satan is determined to win the war against Jesus, but he will ultimately lose. He will not give up without a fight and he wants to take as many people as he can with him.

To understand the methods that Satan is using to pull man away from following God and turning man to follow Satan, you need to look at things from Satan’s point of view. What is the best way to corrupt people and to start them on the path of questioning God and following their own paths? Start when they are children. See my post on Idol Worship for more on that. The next step is electronics, there is a huge push for people to get “chipped” now. This would mean getting a microchip implanted in your body. For me, this is too close to the mark of the beast spoken of in Revelation.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six. Revelation 13:16-18

Do I know for sure that a microchip will be the Mark of the Beast? No, but I do not want any microchips in my skin. Since the verse does specify “in their right hand, or in their foreheads” it does make sense that it will be something implantable, like a microchip. Anyone that has the Mark of the Beast is doomed to death, there is no changing your mind once you have received it. In ancient times when a servant chooses to serve his master even after his time is up, he is branded.

4“If his master gives him a wife, and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall belong to her master, and he shall go out alone.5“But if the slave plainly says, ‘I love my master, my wife and my children; I will not go out as a free man,’ 6then his master shall bring him to God, then he shall bring him to the door or the doorpost. And his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him permanently.… Exodus 21:4-6

Once a slave bears that mark, they are forever a slave. The mark is a mark of ownership, just as when you choose to take the Mark of the Beast, you are giving ownership of yourself to Satan.

What other ways is Satan trying to get you to follow him? The movies and TV are promoting all kinds of Superheroes. When you see all the amazing things they can do you wish you had those kind of powers too. Now what if there was some kind of bio-mechanics that you could have added to your body, similar to plastic surgery except instead of changing your features you would be adding mechanical features to yourself. You could be just like a superhero, part human and part machine…..do you get it….you would no longer be fully human. You would now be a corrupted being. This is only an example of the many ways that Satan is working on to corrupt humanity both morally and physically. In the Bible, Jesus tells his disciples that when he returns the earth will be as corrupt as it was before the flood.

As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Matthew 24:37

Be wary of the schemes of Satan, he is crafty and is always looking for a subtle way to corrupt you.

1  brettyrocks 2017-10-06

No. It's all lies. There is no god. There is no devil. We are all god. Collectively.

1  Smoothtank 2017-10-06

To me, it always seems worthless to attempt to interpret the bible through contemporary language, and current notions of fairness and rightness. That changes a lot. Beliefs of today are hardly anymore significant than beliefs of yesterday, and certainly won't be deemed as valid as the beliefs of tomorrow, at which time our vocabulary and sentiments/philosophies may be radically different.

Before you witch hunt me, I would say that I'm agnostic on my best days. But in order to give religious scriptures any sort of intellectually-honest consideration, one must detach himself from modern sensibilities and learn to think (as much as is possible) in a timeless way and unsubscribe to the notion that humans are the end all be all of intelligent life on earth or the universe.

So, erase these notions of what we might call this or that today, or how you believe in this moment. Your life and all of its purpose is a lazy bite of lunch in a passing day in great passage past, present and future.

That is to say, what you believe and what you feel and your notions of right and wrong and good and evil are just a blip of your moment of life. Irrelevant.

1  i_am_unikitty 2017-10-06

God is love. Any entity claiming to be God is a demon posing as a God to empower itself by feeding on worshipers

1  SLAGM 2017-10-06

Well said

1  whitenoisegarbling 2017-10-06

Lucifer and Satan are not necessarily the same entity. It's actually really hard to piece out what's going on with antagonistic forces in this area. They might be, but they might not.

Fwiw, you may want to check out the gnostic creation texts in the nag hammadi library. They're free through google, there's several but Hypostasis of the Archons is pretty good. Some of the gnostic sects took the view that the god in charge of the material world was a tyrant, the serpent was an agent of a benevolent higher power that existed beyond the god of the material world. It's interesting stuff.

If you're into more conspiracy minded stuff, check out the Hidden Hand transcript, it might be up your alley. An anonymous individual purporting to be extraterrestrial in origin and part of something they called 'Soul Group Lucifer' gives a big breakdown of their understanding of cosmology, their role within the world and what they see as the hidden purpose of the nastiness they've been orchestrating. Authentic? A clever hoax? A villain trying to drum of sympathy for some unknowable reason? Intentional Misinformation? You can be the judge, but I think it's pretty interesting.

1  SLAGM 2017-10-06

Nice

1  TheBrit90 2017-10-06

Yeah, I posted the links to all that stuff - Absolutely Amazing (to me) what he said. I found it after I stumbled across The Law of One.

1  misalovesya 2017-10-06

Angels have free will. How else could they rebel if they didnt?

1  LongSaggyBalls 2017-10-06

I have no dog in this fight. But as for your last part, I don't think you can judge spiritual entity by the actions of the followers. If that were the case then Jesus wouldn't look great either.

1  Wild_man_mick_brown 2017-10-06

This guy just reinvented gnosticism from scratch. Pretty impressive actually.